prepurchase but yeah
#beta-ptr-spoilers
deep pawn
upper pasture
thats what TGA has to do with it
deep pawn
that leak came out last week and TGA hadn't confirmed any dates but seems to be second Thursday of Dec so could be lucky/educated
rain cave
ah
upper pasture
that leak came out last week and TGA hadn't confirmed any dates but seems to be ...
yes but other things on that list is correct too
tropic trail
Both the WotLK prepatch announcement coming out as Aug 30, now the Game Awards confirmation
And the fact that the leaker was the same leaker who originally leaked Dragonflight and was spot on with everything
deep pawn
It was first thursday of dec in 2018 so not always. 😄
The leaker had access to the marketing information that was sent out early before the announcements. I don't think he's Blizzard but he's press somewhere in the world.
tropic trail
Is it 100% full confirmation? No, it isn't, but it's certainly a string of several noteworthy coincidences
Might be a vendor
Might be Blizz
Might be a contractor
Don't know, doesn't matter much
Tbh solid odds that it might be a purposeful leak by Blizz
Leaks drum up hype
It gets people sharing it
deep pawn
Just 2 months of testing of the talent trees scares me unless they have a patch just before release too to adjust things once the larger player base finally touches them
Cause we're near the end of August already
rain cave
hopefully they stay more agile with talents
since they're replacing legendaries to a degree too
and other borrowde power
and those get adjusted mid-xpac
this talent system is also easier to do minor tweaks to
old one a minor change was still bigger because less overall variation
signal bone
90% of the talents are just rebuilding the existing classes, so I'm not too worried. That stuff is more "fixable" post launch anyways
max level content should be the main concern
rain cave
I hope they aren't scared to just chuck balance patches around and see what happens
like if one class is underpowered, chuck it a few talent buffs and see how it fares for a week or two
and if it's too much tune it back
and vice versa
opaque pewter
It's a double edge sword after all. They used to do that more often until people raised a ruckus about losing their spot or needing to bring up a new character after a balance change
Granted, it's likely a vocal minority able to influence the mass' feelings
rain cave
I think it's a thing people should work through initially
If balance is quicker, and more consistently done
Then I think the fotm spec culture might dim down
opaque pewter
The thing is that there will always be nerfs and buffs in an ideal situation. People take nerfs very hard and forget about the buffs
This also translated away from affected player and plays into the public perception
i.e. spec being OP to okay once nerfed hard (feral back in legion I think), but public saw the huge numbers and decided it's bad
I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't be done, but there are clear camps on both sides
cunning fossil
agreed
deep pawn
Ooo, changing talents and pathing even while a build is live. That helps them adjust things come pre-patch
and further too
Can Wowhead catch every hotfix if they do them rapidly?
deep pawn
No idea.
crimson jasper
damn hive ships are invading
livid walrus
plain violet
OH SO SHE IS!
livid walrus
she is a dragonkin
plain violet
This NPC was not findable at first.
Yeah, corrupted by the void with special effects..
And so... mmmh. Interesting.
plain violet
I really love the summoning of ghostly gazers.
livid walrus
if someone on alpha want to take a look
nope just dark hair
how she looks as dead
when she dies all the telescop are gone too
her gaze in her spawn is direct to obsidian citadel
opaque pewter
Well, it's been more than 5 years since after all lol
plain violet
You can't speak black dragons without void.
crystal pond
I wonder what this npc are
rain cave
NOT AGAIN PLEASE GOD BFA IS GONE GO AWAY
bro void has been in like every expansion in some form or another
just light light
arcane
death..
etc
crystal pond
We have all forces every expansion
rain cave
a random rare elite isn't reason to go into old god panic
we had void rares in legion
WoD
crystal pond
Void and light just being on top of all because like - they super powerfull and bla bla bla
livid walrus
i found this room
proper palm
NOT AGAIN PLEASE GOD BFA IS GONE GO AWAY
No
crystal pond
i found this room
What is this in center and where is it?
livid walrus
it is in waking shoes in some higher place. and it seems like a goblin rocket
proper palm
Need DK skin for allied race DK btw
deep pawn
they're finally doing the paladin hotfix tests
fierce shell
hmm looks like they are removing some button bloat introduced from these trees next patch, for some specs at least.
lean yew
As they should
lean yew
Those bloat talents are terrible and highlight a major flaw in the system - they're the same as the old "increase crit by 1%" from the old trees
Not every talent needs to be a huge success, but they're not fun at all, and it feels bad to level up and go "..oh, 2% crit, great"
It defeats the point of the system lol
and with mage specifically, putting 3 points into arcanes blink shit, for .5 sec cd reduction each time was egregiously bad
fierce shell
ya mage tree was weird
lean yew
imagine leveling up -three- times and having to waste those levels on...basically nothing
it seems like people have mostly moved off of the soar issue, the cd reduction to 3 minutes really was nice though
crimson jasper
never gonna be not upset about it
ancient jasper
I mean people kept telling them it was a shit change but, as usual, Blizz chose to ignore feedback so.. What can you do?
crimson jasper
people are too easily pleased
l cant write on those feedback forums
or l'd do so
lean yew
I've already posted my feedback a few times on it, just repeating it over and over doesn't seem like it's going to get it changed
I think there was an ulterior motive to it not named - which is unfortunate
lean yew
I will say I do use it in the dragon isles still
crimson jasper
but as usual blizz knows better what's fun
lean yew
mostly because i didnt unlock all the talents for dragonriding
and vigor takes a while lol
and its noticeable when I don't have soar
ie: on a non-dracthyr, this is more of a temporary issue of my laziness in case we get wiped, and not a permanent thing
There is, despite it being slower, something still quite fun about soaring
crimson jasper
just remove the cd
lean yew
the cd isnt even that bad anymore
crimson jasper
well it's a compromise to the lower speed
lean yew
I'm not sure, I think it was just b/c of overwhelming feedback on the cd
in a world where they just launched alpha with 540% speed
We would've still been fighting for a lower cd
crimson jasper
idk why tho
because Blizzard likes pushing their agenda l guess
l mean the wording sais it all "in our opinion it doesn't take away from the fun"
despite people saying it does feel worse
lean yew
despite being a vocal critic re: the speed change and cooldown, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that there was another reason for the change they did not want to share
crimson jasper
plus Feedback on initial soar was "more please it's great"
fkn mobile discord update
chat literally crashes every 2nd message
crimson jasper
despite being a vocal critic re: the speed change and cooldown, I am willing to ...
but why, why the secrecy
people would be more understanding if they were actually told
lean yew
I dont know, as someone who has spent a pretty significant time on the alpha now, I am less passionate about what they do with soar and more concerned with the class/talents
crimson jasper
well ofc soar isn't the only issue but with
lean yew
Not that there is glaring issues with the class/talents
crimson jasper
omfg
type piece o shit mobile
least classes they seem willing to listen to feedback
overall aside from Soar it's going well
soar is just a big "typical Blizzard"
if they really wanna limit it, make it 1min cd and unlock no cd with exploration
cause fun without trading my firstborn isn't allowed
ah well
on the topic of reducing button bloat
DH 2 button rotation when? xD
Auto attack builder, eye beam spender, cd meta, done
God l bet there would still be people that would fuck that up
ember blaze
yeah, soar was something no one asked to get nerfed
and people only wanted to do it more
nobody cared about the old world excuses they said
maybe their issues were also technical
but they didnt wanna say that
rain cave
Not every talent needs to be a huge success, but they're not fun at all, and it ...
I like them
Ofc not everything should be but I like the odd stat talent
Ik the mage tree is a mess, but due example if you go down the left side which isn't really fire themed you get some crit, and the fire side gives you haste
Even though on paper you'd at first think but fire likes crit
I see it as trying to equalise the builds
Spending so many points in another area as a fire mage, you might be lacking some other fire features, or shatter cap. So having an extra bit of crit helps you catch up
And the haste in the fire mage section is to give a similar boost, speed you up a bit to help you reach a minimum amount of stats
I reckon it'll also help lower ilvls feel better, as you'll have some extra stats to work with
ember blaze
Fire likes haste not crit 
rain cave
Fire likes haste not crit <:dracthyr_uwu:1002363145727246387>
Crit is by design fires main stat though
You want a base amount of crit, and effects, then the haste to speed up that playstyle to fit more in
ember blaze
Entire kit has guaranteed crits
rain cave
The core loop is about fishing for crits
ember blaze
During downtime which you don’t do any dmg. But you still have guaranteed crits there
Crit is not a stat you care about
rain cave
Crit is a stat fire very much cares about
Without a base amount of Crit the spec feels terrible
ember blaze
Idk how true that is, but your entire kit still has guaranteed crits
With or without crit stats
And you play around your combustion window
rain cave
The only guaranteed crits are fireblast and combustion
ember blaze
And during execute range
rain cave
if you run that talent
ember blaze
Which you always do
ember blaze
During downtime you’re useless
rain cave
after fishing for it
ember blaze
And your fireball has a stacking crit buff
rain cave
and crit converts to mastery during ignite
ember blaze
You litrerally don’t care about crit
rain cave
And your fireball has a stacking crit buff
which proves my point
to give you a minimum amount of crit
ember blaze
Which all works around your combust window
rain cave
haste then allows you once you have a certain amount of crit, to fit way more into those windows
ember blaze
And your afk downtime with fire blast and execute range
rain cave
it's the same as other stat weights
you don't want 100% haste or crit
you want a mixture
a threshold of crit + haste is more efficient than just 100% haste
ember blaze
And you’re currently sitting on combust for entire fight
Yeah but you’d rather get mast or vers not crit
rain cave
I don't think you're understanding where I'm coming from with the original statement though
the fire side of class tree has haste but not night fae covenant
and access to more fiery things
so they don't need as much crit really
but if you're playing a fire mage who has dipped over to the night fae ability, you might not have as many of your fiery tools from class tree
so some extra crit is nice
because you're already reducing your cooldowns
if that makes any sense
plain violet
Congrats! :)
balmy gate
I like this point you made. Gear is irrelevant as soon as the next patch releases. Unique mythic-only cosmetics would be something neat to collect and have. No one cares about what was BIS from two patches ago, but pulling out that unique cosmetic you once got would definitely turn some heads and make you feel proud to have.
Right now, most mythic cosmetics are mostly just a recolor of what you can get from the other three raids, except sometimes they tweak the shoulders with a more pronounced animation.
upper pasture
i mean, tbf mythic already has mythic only "cosmetics". like you said it's it's own color from the set that was released in that tier and sometimes has a little bit more done on the shoulders. the way i see it unless they make the mythic cosmetic set limited time only (when it's the higher content) making a level of play that only rewards cosmetics will only make less people play it when its current or just wait until they can run through with like 5 people can get everything then. although we've seen how excited people get with blizzard adds limited time things.
rain cave
I like this point you made. Gear is irrelevant as soon as the next patch releas...
but that goes for anything gear related?
"why bother with gear it becomes irrelevant next patch anyway"
also, it's better to then keep gear relevant longer
hence, fated raids
timewalking
etc
but also it's not like gear is replacing cosmetics in this sense
just because mythic gear exists, doesn't mean cosmetics don't
we already have mythic mounts, tier sets
and if you want more, they CAN add more
and the existence of mythic gear makes it easier to achieve
and if you can't when it's current, come back when it's lower content I guess
they already do that thing where 100% droprate mounts get reduced to 1% after they become not current mythic
so people doing it current get rewarded for their effort in a sense, with cutting edge, early access and an assured mount drop
tropic trail
I like this point you made. Gear is irrelevant as soon as the next patch releas...
Gear doesn't become irrelevant when the next patch releases, what are you even talking about? Having extremely high-tier gear or even BIS of the current patch means that when the next patch comes out that raises the level, you're in a FAR better place to actually start climbing to the next peak. That's part of the whole point of gear. You do the hard content, you get the big rewards, you have a period where you get to make good use of them and they're bragging rights of a sort, and then when the next stuff comes out you have better tools to start the next phase of your gearing journey.
More varied and interesting cosmetic rewards would be great, especially if it's proper 3d gear and not just painted-on
But gear itself and the stats it grants absolutely do have a point and a benefit to them and that benefit doesn't just blow away in the wind the instant something higher than them appears
If you're in BIS one patch and a new patch that raises the cap comes out, the guy who was in previous BIS is absolutely going to be in a better place to get to the new max than someone at a lower ilvl
rain cave
Gear doesn't become irrelevant when the next patch releases, what are you even t...
this too
tropic trail
Gear is just a tool
It can help you build yourself higher, it can help you carry friends to get them geared, it can help you make gold or get alts set up because farming is easier
rain cave
I think maybe they should just release a set with the raid, and after unlocking the set from gear drops you can unlock extra colour schemes
like if you get the glory of x raider achieve
tropic trail
What you decide to do with the tool is up to you, but it absolutely is not worthless
tropic trail
That said, I'll admit, I am
Not quite satisfied with cosmetics
Many of the more recent gear just doesn't hit the vibe with me
The BFA sets adn Shadowlands sets
At least for cloth since I primarily play mage, there's just so much of it that's just very... meh looking
All the tentacle masks are a solid example
rain cave
I think it's because they can go with more details that they do
and they've felt that they want the gear to be themed around the raid every time
we only got class sets back in 9.2 as well
upper pasture
tbf that mostly has to do with your own opinion on the sets and not the sets themselves. i know people who love these CN sets but hated the SotFOs sets.
tropic trail
I don't think that the sets shouldn't exist or something, it's more that like
rain cave
well no shit but I do think that there are improvements that would make both camps happy
upper pasture
while some people just hate all the SLs sets
rain cave
people who like the current sets would appreciate some other new stuff
and people who don't might like it too
tropic trail
Expansions feel like they have a comparatively small amount of unique cosmetic sets available from them
And an increase in that would be nice
upper pasture
i think anyone will like more stuff i don't see what you're getting at
rain cave
I think that they also slide the bar pretty far in either direction whenever it's "raid theme" vs "class theme"
without much subtelty
hellfire citadel blended them pretty well
and BRF I guess
upper pasture
other will see it as a "wasted" time where they could have be making "real content"
tropic trail
Mostly that I disagree with the idea that higher-end content should have gearing rewards replaced with cosmetics, which was a previously discussed point in this channel
Gear is good
Cosmetics are good
We can have both
tropic trail
And even having actual gear and also purely cosmetic items dro can also occur
rain cave
and gear is often where cosmetics come from
upper pasture
we are also talking about a game that's been out for 18 years. there's only so many times you can make a "mage" set without make it look the same or newer ideas
rain cave
yeah I look at ToS
I love those remakes
ofc not everything can be remakes but like
chuck us a tier 2 warrior remake
or tier 1
even theme it after current raid
tropic trail
Like, 10000%, if people were able to get higher quality versions of some of the older gear for transmogs, there are absolutely people who would eat it up
I know I would
rain cave
imagine if sanctum sets weren't just legendary sets but like tier 1 remakes in the style of sanctum
tier 1 warrior domination set
tropic trail
But having that happen doesn't need to be at the expense of actual statted gear
upper pasture
"hey guys i know you want to work on your own stuff in the warcraft universe but lets remake/hirez paint something we did 18 years ago"
tropic trail
"Hey I know you like money and we have a playerbase that wants a thing. Do it and we will pay you."
upper pasture
honestly it's a moot point no matter what there will be people on either side of the fence complaining about it.
tropic trail
Wow amazing how jobs work like this
upper pasture
"playerbase"
bro people just want content they don't care what it is. it's not like every shaman player wants the molten core set to be upgraded for DF or else they won't sub.
tropic trail
It's also not like the entire graphics team is slaving away constantly every single day and never has any time for alternate projects, or that it would be impossible to take on an extra hire to take care of the task
We're not talking about some five man team indie company that can barely pay the bills here
rain cave
"hey guys i know you want to work on your own stuff in the warcraft universe but...
"hey guys we've got a great collection of sets people like the fantasy of but aren't up to current graphical standards, why don't you reimagine these classic sets with our current tech and thematics?"
tropic trail
We're talking about one of the largest gaming companies around
upper pasture
smh y'all just don't understand. not everything can or should be done.
upper pasture
"hey guys we've got a great collection of sets people like the fantasy of but ar...
THEY LITERALLY DO THAT EVERYTIME THE DO CLASS SETS WDYM
upper pasture
just because it does "fit" mage to you doesn't mean it isn't a mage to the class designer or whoever approved the concept
rain cave
this is funny because we aren't disagreeing since we aren't talking about the same points here
upper pasture
it true
rain cave
and even the things that are related I'm not even disagreeing
tropic trail
Nevermind that the company either has resources available on hand or can make the resources available by just
Hiring someone
Like companies do
tropic trail
Because people fairly regularly express an interest in more cosmetic gear and have been saying that they would like higher graphical quality versions of old gear for a LONG time
upper pasture
but you've also got to see every class set is a reimagining
rain cave
not really
most class sets are original designs
isn't there only like
1 remake tier
tropic trail
Like this isn't really some sort of task that's gonna choke the life out of other parts of WoW here
rain cave
which is ToS
upper pasture
literally when the design artist sits down the first thought is "okay this is a tier set for....a mage" and then they look at where this is coming from for inspo. how can you tell me this isn't a reimagining of a mage tier set.
tropic trail
Because it isn't
tropic trail
It's a tier set designed around the aesthetics of the current expansion
tropic trail
Not a tier set based off of the prior tier sets of that class for that expansion
upper pasture
but you right
rain cave
that's just design inspiration
looking at a moodboard for other things doesn't make what you make a reimagining of said things
even then they probs don't look at other mage sets for all of the inspiration
tropic trail
Even if they did
rain cave
SotFO they probably looked at what the environment artists were doing
tropic trail
It's new content
Like, what is the actual argument you're trying to get at here lehr
upper pasture
SotFO they probably looked at what the environment artists were doing
they still pulled from basic class looks and feels
tropic trail
Tier sets exist so fuck old gear aesthetics?
Too much time spent on tiersets to bother updating stuff?
rain cave
they still pulled from basic class looks and feels
correct, which is probably from an internal design/art document compiling all the things that makes a class look how it does
a style guide
upper pasture
Too much time spent on tiersets to bother updating stuff?
there is a time and place for updates to sets not just randomly just because.
tropic trail
Sure
upper pasture
if they did an upgraded MC set how would we get them?
upper pasture
just update the old ones?
rain cave
what
tropic trail
The sets should be updated or have versions added to the game based on them at current standards, because the older versions no longer meet the graphical standards of modern World of Warcraft
This isn't just tiersets
This is fairly basic stuff too
upper pasture
...
rain cave
lets say we're going to a raid themed around infinite dragons
upper pasture
how would we get said upgraded items?
rain cave
why not bring backa remake of say, tier 11 warrior? but with infinite dragon theming?
upper pasture
visually upgraded
tropic trail
Pick a method
upper pasture
no you pick a method
sullen dawn
Lol you two
tropic trail
Buyable via vendor with farmed currency, as additional drops from world content, part of Timewalking
Take your pick
There's plenty of ways people can get things
upper pasture
why not bring backa remake of say, tier 11 warrior? but with infinite dragon th...
they might do this, but you'll say it's not a reimagining of the warrior set and you'll be in denial about it.
tropic trail
Hell, make them available for sizable sums of gold from vendors
rain cave
they might do this, but you'll say it's not a reimagining of the warrior set and...
no?
what?
I can look at tomb of sargeras and see remakes
tropic trail
Now you have both a way to get people interesting, unique cosmetics AND it doubles as a gold sink to help reduce the inflation the game is suffering still
rain cave
I can look at HFC warrior and see it's a reimagining of tier 2 warrior
idk why you think so low of me on this in like a personal way
we aren't even disagreeing
really
upper pasture
it's nothing personal
tropic trail
Sure, you're just aggressive about it and wording it in a hostile manner
It's VERY clear that this is just a reimagining of the old one, you can even tell where they traced it
upper pasture
Buyable via vendor with farmed currency, as additional drops from world content,...
haven't they been adding sets/weapons in game for quite some time that way? to say they should upgrade all the sets/weapons/items from basically classic-cata would be quite the undertaking in it's own right.
i'm not saying we SHOULDN'T get updated stuff just whenever it makes sense you know?
upper pasture
because it shouldn't be done randomly?
tropic trail
It isn't done randomly
tropic trail
Nope, I just want more options that are interesting
upper pasture
but we ARE getting more options
upper pasture
just because they aren't interesting to you doesn't mean they aren't interesting to someone
tropic trail
Washed out or garishly colored
Textured as painted-on clothes
Clipping into items
Removing your hair and eyebrows when equipped or transmogged
upper pasture
i just can't
pulsar minnow
It's VERY clear that this is just a reimagining of the old one, you can even tel...
I'm not going to read this entire conversation, but you're not saying these two sets are the same are you?
upper pasture
have fun
tropic trail
I'm not going to read this entire conversation, but you're not saying these two ...
No, that's Lehr's stance
Lehr says the DF one is just a reimagining of the other one
And I was being sarcastic about it
upper pasture
excuse me?
tropic trail
excuse me?
upper pasture
it's a reimagining of a class set
tropic trail
Yes you can see exactly where they traced over the old ones and all the direct inspiration they took
upper pasture
not of the LAST class set
tropic trail
Instead of it just being, you know
"Here's a cool expansion-themed set with some bits that aesthetically tie it to X class"
upper pasture
well....anyways, have fun.
sullen dawn
People argue over the stupidest things
upper pasture
i'm reminded of this everyday yet i cannot help myself sometimes.
even when halfway through it i realize what's happen and i should stop i cannot.
crystal pond
Omg
Yall again arguing about gear and cosmetic stuff?
upper pasture
not anymore no
deep pawn
any vendor build yet?
rain cave
People argue over the stupidest things
yup
deep pawn
Nah, all actual cutscenes will likely be encrypted til live.
I'm still holding out hope for a build tonight
rain cave
Nah, all actual cutscenes will likely be encrypted til live.
I mean they could also do a thing like they did with 9.2 sylvanas cutscene
where they release something to us early on
like a levelling cutscene
something akin to ysera dying in legion
cunning fossil
So anyway
New build tomorrow?
Should be today
Builds usually don't drop until like 5 ish so we have time
5 est
crystal pond
Oh okay
crystal pond
Nah, all actual cutscenes will likely be encrypted til live.
I mean, in-game cutscenes
Not high quallity cutscenes
livid walrus
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1562141049509875715 🙂 i helped mrgm to do the bug 🙂
dense plover
Here’s hoping for monk changes whenever today’s build rolls around
livid walrus
peach , if you want, i can show you the trick as well to make you fly like that
lean yew
Servers should be going down soonish if there is a build today
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t without communication though
rain cave
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t without communication though
well if it's going to beta
then they probably wouldn't announce until it's basically dropping
crystal pond
Nah beta gonna be in september
I will be suprised if they gonna drop it today
rain cave
thought it would since we'd be fully class complete
crystal pond
Is dh have its tree?
rain cave
Is dh have its tree?
should be in the next build
cunning fossil
Might take a bit
Remember 5 is the usual time
Well around 5 to 6 est
So they might bring the servers down at around 4
lean yew
Theyre usually down well in advance though
crystal pond
should be in the next build
Then yeah beta gonna be in september
This weak for dh build for sure
dense plover
Theyre usually down well in advance though
Depends - it’s been mixed. Since this likely won’t be a huge build outside of adding DH, it’s probably going to go down 1-2 hours before build
No earlier than 1-2 hours from now realistically
sullen dawn
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1562141049509875715 🙂 i helped mrgm to do the...
Ya but we don't want it to be easy that's the point
Getting rid of no clip
lean yew
I see
crystal pond
I hope they gonna add skill for dragon to fly up, after you Upgrade your dragonriding, because its very anoying when you getting quest something below, and quest-zone is above it
Speccialy in thaldrasus
Also dragonriding at the moment is only available for dragon isle due map while old world is like
Not desigh for this at all
dense plover
Also dragonriding at the moment is only *available* for dragon isle due map whil...
I mean - yeah. They want to make sure people like it before putting it in the rest of the game
dense plover
I hope they gonna add skill for dragon to fly up, after you Upgrade your dragonr...
There is a launch ability of some kind
It should be available early-ish
deep pawn
build hopes fading, noooo
lean yew
If not today I’d assume tomorrow
deep pawn
hmm, Max has an announcement tomorrow
tropic trail
Is dh have its tree?
God willing they forgot DH and will remove it
ember blaze
hmm, Max has an announcement tomorrow
i think that has to do with his guild
deep pawn
ah, rip, was hoping beta date and keys
lean yew
max will not be solo announcing beta on his stream lol
deep pawn
I didn't mean it'd be just him, just him trying to get eyes on his stream for giveaways first since both him and towelliee have beta soontm on their titles haha.
crystal pond
Well
Its actually soon, but not on this week
deep pawn
if a build randomly came out at 8pm pacific it wouldn't be the latest build push they've ever done right?
deep pawn
30th would be exactly 8 weeks if the 10/25 date is correct
austere gazelle
yeah they said beta starting september so that would fit
lets hope they won't rush the DH talent set :p
deep pawn
when did they say September?
austere gazelle
when they started the alpha
upper pasture
14th?
austere gazelle
they said " beta should start one month and a half after alpha's launch " which was launched the 14/15th of july
tropic trail
Do you have a source?
I'm not doubting it, I just don't recall that offhand and it'd be nice to have it so I can link it to some people
austere gazelle
I have a source, but you don't have memories, I posted it right there a few weeks ago, for the same person asking
deep pawn
If you posted the link back then I may have missed it.
austere gazelle
I copy pasted it from a news on wowhead though
uncut vault
if a build randomly came out at 8pm pacific it wouldn't be the latest build push...
They’ve done one at 10pm PST before so not latest haha
tropic trail
While nice, that's just text. What article is it from?
deep pawn
It's the original blue post from alpha launch
uncut vault
And they put a dev build out at 9:30 last night so clearly they aren’t above working late lol
tropic trail
deep pawn
I've always read that as beta starts the moment all dungeons and class trees are in and I figured end of August.
tropic trail
It's actually this
uncut vault
It’ll probably be the week after that moment
IE this week we’ll hopefully get DH and the final two dungeons
Then beta next week
deep pawn
I'd take 8 week beta as better marketing than 7.
austere gazelle
Is there a lots of bug on Alpha atm? 8 week beta is kinda hard and I hope they wont make a launch with tons of bugs
deep pawn
There's a ton of bugs related to trees, but the actual world doesn't feel that bad
austere gazelle
World quests are in already ? ^^
deep pawn
At least from the streams I've watched
uncut vault
They’re pretty early stages and have some bugs but yeah
There’s not a lot of actual ability to test the later endgame atm on alpha since there’s no rep boost to try those mechanics out
deep pawn
Given they'll probably have an extra 5 weeks or so to test end game and world content, that might be slightly less priority than getting talents and evoker right first since that comes right away with prepatch
austere gazelle
Guess that the players that will reach the max level first will be the beta testers for endgame content
:/
deep pawn
3 months of raid testing wouldn't be that unusual for a content patch, even 2 months if it does come til a month into beta
Plus it's only 8 bosses
austere gazelle
Well the last retail patch has been on ptr for a long time and it is full of bugs 😦 I hope it wont be like this
deep pawn
Half the m+ dungeons are also existing already and are just a matter of scaling vs making sure the mechanics work
Now that really would be a doomer conspiracy is if the 4 old dungeons are just so they don't have to test as much before the expansion goes live haha
austere gazelle
Yeah we saw the issue with Karazhan for example, it was not tuned as it should have been :x
there are still waves of nerfs ahah
deep pawn
Legion m+ still had wonky tuning
upper pasture
It’s always like that no?
austere gazelle
no, Iron dock for example was pretty well tuned
Grimrail too , if we remove the lack of spaces for affixes and the last boss mechanics that were not really designed with recent UI / UX in mind
languid yoke
iron docks and Grimrail had surprisingly few tweeks and it was mostly major changes to mechanics
upper pasture
Content will get nerfed after launch because people complain that “it’s too hard please nerf”
languid yoke
stuff like Throw ignoring armor, endboss in Grimrail
Streets had lots of tuning in 9.2
austere gazelle
Karazhan on the other side was pretty pretty bad. Both wings. Upper is now nearly good, but lower is still a nightmare
languid yoke
Karazhan is just mechanically flawed for m+
austere gazelle
true. The theater event for exemple is not tuned at all. Each new encounter hasn't been tested / tuned properly and is nerfed one week after
languid yoke
Moroes very much is simply a raidboss, Opera event had absolute garbage tuning, Throw Coin on the trash at the start of Lower was a dogshit ability and should've never been in the game in the first place (the tankbuster, not the aoe)
they didn't even nerf Wikket after EU had it and it was garbage
austere gazelle
On fortified week it felt like a tyrannical boss lol
languid yoke
and apparently the murlocs on westside story kept spawning explosives after being defeated
but who cares about EU feedback
deep pawn
Last boss of upper I'm pretty sure is easier now than it was in legion
deep pawn
That last boss back in legion was HELL
languid yoke
Medivh is from a time where healers were stronger
but also I think Medivh is severely mechanically flawed
there should've been some sort of school lockout
kinda like the 2nd boss in Shrine of the Storm
that boss needed a shitton of interrupts, was terrible if you had too many long interrupts, but was still doable if you did
austere gazelle
and apparently the murlocs on westside story kept spawning explosives after bein...
Oh yeah. Westside story we tried it, it was a nightmare, there were AOE everywhere + explosive that spawned everywhere on the add that we defeated, we couldn't do it, we left after first wype
- mob weirdly placed so when you enter the opera you had to aggro it directly
austere gazelle
but also I think Medivh is severely mechanically flawed
Medivh is now really ok. He's very very easy now.
They should tweak curator a bit so that the add's zone have a proper size. The zone once it hit the ground is larger that the " warning " display before it appears
anyway, upper main problem was the Dreadlady placement and the trash just after that one shotted and charged everything at the speed of light, both have been sold, it's not easier
the last rough part are the trash before the chess event which are, well.. not conveniently placed
It's almost mandatory to skip them now since they are time waster
deep pawn
You should want to skip both pyromancers
dense plover
Servers still up?
deep pawn
they were about 10 minutes ago
crimson jasper
oh how far you at? current patch? cause new raid wing looks fire
dense plover
oh how far you at? current patch? cause new raid wing looks fire
I’m caught up. Going to go run Aglaia now that the limits are gone to try to get to ilvl 585
So I can do the new raid this weekend with a friend
ember blaze
Medivh is now really ok. He's very very easy now.
no he isn't lol
and the flame patch on your feet goes through immunity
it's not as awful if your tank can tank multiple arcane blasts
as it frees up kicks
crimson jasper
I’m caught up. Going to go run Aglaia now that the limits are gone to try to get...
oh sweet enjoy, how did you like it?
l do also hope we get beta soon, S4 is fine but still not really much to do outside of m+
austere gazelle
and the flame patch on your feet goes through immunity
Did it in +15/16 in pug and never had any trouble since the nerfs.
ember blaze
one of his spells got a dmg nerf so it's healable, but he's not as easy as you claim
austere gazelle
Well I never wyped on him anymore since the nerf. Nor had any player death... so yeah he's easy now.
ember blaze
that's fine, but i still disagree 
mossy meteor
supposedly new build is either late tonight or early tomorrow
deep pawn
how early?
ionic terrace
sus
mossy meteor
i dunno how early
deep pawn
different teams, but they're doing a wrath Wintergrasp test on Thursday
ember blaze
neeeeeeeeed to see dh tree
deep pawn
DH discord is pretty set on nothing tonight
ember blaze
guess tomorrow it is
dense plover
woah weird - no build today
ah
there was a dev build at 6
it must not be ready yet
cunning fossil
Ahh I see.
Wierd stuff
I guess they aren't under any obligation to announce it to be fair
ember blaze
they promised every tuesday though 🤔
cunning fossil
Fair but Dev Issues are dev issues
Also it could be a bigger patch than we thought
With a swathe of class updates
deep pawn
I'm gonna say the dev build came up late, and while it's crunch time it's not SO crunch they have to do a build after sunset yet
lean yew
Yeah there was no reason to push it today
If it wasn't ready*
As much as I would love to have had dh talents today, it's not the end of the world
austere gazelle
Lol we were talking about Kara's difficulty yesterday... And I just saw the huge giga nerf xD
ember blaze
kara has been nerfed consecutively for the past few weeks
austere gazelle
Yeah I know. but the nerf we had this week is pretty massive ^^
austere gazelle
With a swathe of class updates
and the remaining dungeons ^^
sullen dawn
they promised every tuesday though 🤔
"promised"
It's a testing phase which is non commercial, they didn't promise shit
rose escarp
I seemed to recall that they stated last week that the Wednesday build was an exception to the "rule" of builds going out on Tuesday. Complete radio silence this weeks seems a bit odd, though.
I doubt anyone would really go bananas if they'd just say "This week's build is a bit delayed, but here's a few examples of what you can look forward to", while referencing the recent Mage and Warlock feedback posts, for instance.
crystal pond
Dh players are just crying with "where our talent tree, blizzard???"
So they have to pop it out today or tommorow or ppl gonna be angy
Or atleast announce that "hey, no build this weak"
languid yoke
tbf the phase schedule is over, blizzard can do what they want
but according to streamers the build was either gonna be late last night or today
tropic trail
There's still time
They can still just not write it
"lol sorry, DHs cannot level past 60"
rain cave
"Sir they're not forgetting that DH's existed like we thought they would"
"they're actually asking for talent trees"
trail knot
no beta rip
rain cave
wait so sabellian is actually wrathion's brother?
I thought he was just another random black dragon who was just respected
pulsar minnow
Yeah Sabellian is a direct descendant of Deathwing. Though Wrathion’s lineage is a bit fuzzy
Wrathion calls Deathwing his father yet we don’t exactly know if that’s true
rain cave
could be funny if he actually just
isn't
like he thought he was but then they trace it back through sinestra
since apparently she's still knocking about
if wrathion ends up not actually being related to deathwing that could be a massive shift for the character imo
pulsar minnow
His mother was Neltharion’s daughter, Nyxondra
But we don’t know his father
It could be Neltharion which would be…. Uhh yeah. Weird.
rain cave
what happened to nyxondra?
pulsar minnow
Dead
pulsar minnow
Because there’s an entire questline around Wrathion’s egg in The Badlands
And she’s the one that lays it
tropic trail
I feel like a crack addict waiting for this
It actually looks better than it has for a while
cunning fossil
no beta rip
Beta drop when DH isn't even up on alpha?
Lel
rain cave
DH? DHon't fucking care lol send it
upper pasture
Blizzard out here like “now introducing our NEW class to our hit game. The 12th class we’ve added and it’s both a class and a race! ENVOKER!”
cunning fossil
Kek
crystal pond
His mother was Neltharion’s daughter, Nyxondra
Wrathion litteraly abomination
His lineage is f up very much
But yeah
He is grandson of Neltharion
crystal pond
how do we know she's the mother
Originally we didnt know, only speculated
Then someone from blizzard posted that nyxondra is onyxia sister officialy
And ppl like "oh so he is grandson of Neltharion"
Blizz: "well yeah, but he like to call him his father"
zealous basalt
I dont think he is of neltharion considering lore says that deathwing most of the times killed whoever he mated because his form
tropic trail
I dont think he is of neltharion considering lore says that deathwing most of th...
Resurrection exists
Just call a shaman
rain cave
Resurrection exists
sinestra
is proof of this idea
but yeah sabellian's lot seem way more level headed, but wrathion does have a good point
where tf were they
but at the same time wrathion is also too egotistical about his acts
he's like "yeah look at me I united everyone against the legion wooo"
bro
zealous basalt
Wrathion caused bfa
rain cave
I feel like wrathion is going mad of his own accord almost
his obsession with being the "not mad black dragon" who will do his fathers job
he's got some inherent contradictions in him
he's ruthless in a job that should be about compassion
he's stated he doesn't want to be held accountable for deathwings actions, and he's his own guy
but is also obsessed with BEING the earth warder and filling that legacy
and his whole thing about "I am of complete sound mind not mad not mad whatever you think I am NOT insane"
constant thing he's got to do
I don't want him to be a villain don't think he will be, but I could definitely see him cracking now that he has sabellian for competition
zealous basalt
I think too much time with the mortals rubbed off him
rain cave
I do wonder if he'll give more shady style quests or missions if you side with him
like in cata
pulsar minnow
I don't think Wrathion is going to go evil. If anything he's just going to get a character arc that has him mature into a leader the Black Dragons need
rain cave
it's also noteworthy that the different reputation levels between sabellian and wrathion are differently named
wrathion's max is "close friend"
sabellians is just "friend"
pulsar minnow
My feeling is that Sabellian and/or Ebyssian might die to protect Wrathion causing a massive shift in his character.
rain cave
I was thinking that too
in terms of meta-gaming the narrative it fits
sabellian after all is just a normal black drake model
lol
and wrathion sells
cunning fossil
They really went backward with Wrathion's character tbh
rain cave
sabellian dying also rounds out their competition without an actual decision
cunning fossil
Idk why they made him so suddenly self-centeted
rain cave
I mean from what I've read he's always been very... difficult?
like literally since he's been born man has been doing some weird stuff
ordering other black dragons assassinated, trying to play the pandaria war to his advantage
he's done it all in name of "the greater good", but he's still always been very rutheless about it
and if you don't see yourself as justified in these things you'd probably go mad from the morale conundrum
pulsar minnow
Here's my little headcanon idea for how they could start Wrathion's arc.
Neltharus gets attacked by the fully-powered primalists, and the Aspects still haven't regained their powers to stop them. In the attack there's a big explosion that Sabellian ends up taking the direct hit
rain cave
I'm already doubting this I'll be honest
pulsar minnow
Wrathion is knocked unconcious, and Ebyssian is hurt but regains conciousness. Ebyssian does a last stand to protect Wrathion (Wrathion did save his life) and dies as Wrathion is being carried away by Myridian or whoever else
Next we find Wrathion back at the Tavern from MoP going back to the old Pandaren he told off for advice
rain cave
I reckon if there's going to be anything it will be in 10.1 or 10.2
relating to the underground bit
cunning fossil
Low key I kinda don't like that?
Not to say it's a bad marrative
pulsar minnow
I don't like it either honestly but it's just an idea. I would prefer Ebyssian stays alive imo
rain cave
it sounds to cheesy to me
cunning fossil
But I don't like that we need 2 character deaths to forward someone's personality
pulsar minnow
very much so
cunning fossil
Oh I totally getcha
pulsar minnow
I seriously hope Ebyssian gets a new dragon model in DF though. I know he's using the new basic dragon model but I sort of don't like it
cunning fossil
Agrees
pulsar minnow
I'd really love it if Ebyssian's dragon form had the Highmountain carvings on his horns with a braided beard or something. He was born and raised by Huln Highmountain, yet he doesn't show that
crystal pond
Imagine if Ebyssian and Sabellian was having unic model 
pulsar minnow
It's really funny to me how Ebyssian and Sabellian are both using the basic black dragon model, so if they're in a cutscene together I highly doubt anyone would be able to tell them apart
crystal pond
Yeah
Atleast give Ebyssian Taurens horns blizzard pls
trail knot
no build today good night
cunning fossil
no build today good night
What makes u say that?
Give it about 2 and a half hours
They've released builds at around 8 before
crystal pond
So
Dh get officialy deleted?
crystal pond
Give it about 2 and a half hours
Gonna laught if they for real forgot about dh, and rn trying rush talent tree 
cunning fossil
So
Dh get officialy deleted?
bruh they didn't forget about DH
deep pawn
supposedly servers may come down anytime
mossy meteor
realms just went down
austere gazelle
errant prairie
i see the streamer max on the alpha rn o.o
livid walrus
it is not down
languid yoke
just got off the phone with Ion, he said that they left DH at the lost & found after it went to the kiddie ball pool
crimson jasper
they were trying to call Illidan for feedback but he's not picking up his phone
deep pawn
It's only 1:30 on west coast so it's not too late but this is weird after how punctual the first 6 phases or so were.
crimson jasper
mh who knows, so far all worked out, l bet it's gonna be fine
mossy meteor
Shit's on fire
crystal pond
they were trying to call Illidan for feedback but he's not picking up his phone
There is no connection is space ya know
crimson jasper
There is no connection is space ya know
that must be the reason they are late
gloomy tangle
They weren’t prepared
ionic terrace
Im on fire yo
mossy meteor
Ofc you are
glass flicker
Darkness called, but I was on the phone, so I missed him. I tried to call *69 Darkness, but he ignored me. Darkness must have been screening his calls. - Illidan Stormrage, Warcraft 3.
crystal pond
Hey i understood
There is no dh tree, because there is no reason for dh to exist anymore, because there is no legion
deep pawn
He got a bunch of them in hots too
deep pawn
"What do you mean Blizzard added monks before Demon Hunters. Monks aren't even a real hero class!"
austere gazelle
Hey i understood
There is no dh tree, because there is no reason for dh to exist...
There are still.. Dreadlords...
glass flicker
I love how Darkness calls Valla at the end and she says "You got the wrong Demon Hunter"
livid walrus
isnt it strange that the flight path mounts in DF are dragons ? XD
as if they are gryphons ?
glass flicker
How is it strange to be riding a dragon in the dragon expansion?
livid walrus
well they are used as a gryphons , you even not speak to them to fly on them, rather to flight masters.
it more looks like there are "smart" dragons who can interact with mortals and such and there are "dumb" ones which are abused to do labour work
upper pasture
i mean even dragons need jobs
glass flicker
You know Dalaran uses your favorite mount as the flightmaster mount, right?
It's not just gryphons.
It can also be Sinrunner Blanchy.
And they should make that a default feature. Change my mind.
crystal pond
it more looks like there are "smart" dragons who can interact with mortals and s...
Also drakes in cata
And gryphons are very smart lorewise, its just not revealed in game
If they cant talk it doesnt mean they are auto dumb
cunning fossil
Damn i'd be surprised if there were no builds today tbh
rain cave
well they are used as a gryphons , you even not speak to them to fly on them, r...
I mean taxi companies have managers
cunning fossil
not like I'm watchin lol
deep pawn
meh, still first interviews since initial alpha push right?
crimson jasper
Limit Max has Ion interview tomorrow
sounds neat, what time is it?
ember blaze
@cunning fossil why not
mossy meteor
meh, still first interviews since initial alpha push right?
yeah
first interview since alpha started
deep pawn
It's probably to promote beta starting soon
either this build is massive and has like m0s or something, or they're just doing beta tomorrow or something hah
dense plover
Servers still up?
ember blaze
yes
dense plover
deep pawn
DHs making a summoning circle in Valdrakken
upper pasture
lol
austere gazelle
They better have some huge changes for DH to delayed it lile that ahah
Suspense is killing me
ember blaze
class rework? 💀
dh could use new abilities. Maybe a flying breath, but with fel energy like evokers
crimson jasper
does someone have that alpha Roadmap still?
dense plover
does someone have that alpha Roadmap still?
It’s out of date
Classes should all be out already
crimson jasper
ahhh
deep pawn
Realms coming down soon maybe?
cunning fossil
Praying ;-;
deep pawn
Max was like "How would they know" and then he got DM'd something
ionic terrace
servers going down
crimson jasper
neat, so everything is going smoothly
ionic terrace
where datamining 😄
where banana
cunning fossil
Is it beta time?
ALMOSt
tropic trail
crimson jasper
been a while since l saw that frog xd
deep pawn
did it patch yet?
ionic terrace
no
deep pawn
With Ride Along on, a player in your party may interact with your Dragon Isle Drake to transform into a whelp that will follow alongside your drake.
That sounds awesome
crimson jasper
pretty nice of them to add that, helps some people out for sure
deep pawn
plus who can turn down turning into a cute whelp
cunning fossil
facts
cunning fossil
lmaooo
ionic terrace
lol
glass flicker
dense plover
what a good accessibility change
glass flicker
I'm sure that's all the DH talents.
As the great philosopher Mediocrates once said:
"Meh, good enough."
deep pawn
Max is all "This will help us multi box all the wqs"
ionic terrace
build out
mossy meteor
Developers’ note: After 10,000 years… today’s build includes early versions of Demon Hunter’s class and Havoc talent trees.
cunning fossil
wait what's nice?
cunning fossil
AWE YEAH
Pet Battles are fuckin awesome
not sarcasm I genuinely love it
PRESS AND HOLD CASTING
AHHHH YES
HAVOC DH TALENTS OUT
mossy meteor
yeah
upper pasture
The hunt is still there! 😄
grand bane
DH TALENT TREES OMG
cunning fossil
Druid got
ionic terrace
uncut lintel
: O
upper pasture
Hmmm…I don’t like that interact change, I use F for other things
cunning fossil
lmao exactly
ionic terrace
i feel like peach's wish would to have alpha
cunning fossil
The power of the Light compels an Undead, Aberration, or Demon target to flee for up to 40 sec. Damage may break the effect. Lesser creatures have a chance to be destroyed. Only one target can be turned at a time.
lmao what is that new line
"L:esser creatures hav ea chance to be destroyed"
ionic terrace
dense plover
looks like the monk tree has shifted a bunch
ill be taking a look once its updated
and they brought back the legion face palm
which is the REALLY good version
"Tiger Palm has a 50% chance to deal 200% of normal damage and reduce the remaining cooldown of your Brews by 1 additional sec."
i loved this thing
and now its back
high tolerance nerf is sorta expected
quick sip is 2 ranks now
idk if thats good
dense plover
they moved the base talents a bunch too
this could be great for monks
i need to see the changed tree
yo
DH tree actually uses crit and mastery
thats been a DH complaint for a WHILE
cunning fossil
lmnao the tree isn't even up up
lmao who's speacking?
IU assume First Arcanist?
worn crown
worn crown
IU assume First Arcanist?
Guess so
dense plover
FIRST GATHERING PROFESSION GUYS
dense plover
"RECRAFTING
Recrafting has been enabled in this week’s build. Recrafting allows players to change out existing item’s Optional Reagents and potentially improve the quality of the crafted equipment. Crafters can learn the Recrafting Recipe from the Associate Professor Instructaur. Please play around with this system and let us know your thoughts!"
HUGE
now people can play around with this
dense plover
buffs and debuffs and the party frame can now be edited in the UI
NEW OPTION: PRESS AND HOLD CASTING
"NEW FEATURE: INTERACT KEY
Press the Interact Key to interact with NPCs and objects with a keypress instead of your mouse."
"NEW TARGETING SYSTEM: ACTION COMBAT
Automatically targets enemies as you approach them, allowing you to start casting abilities immediately.
Dynamically switches targets based on where you’re looking.
Works alongside the standard targeting system. If you need to lock on to a target, simply press Tab to enter Tab Target Combat.
Enable this feature by typing “/console SoftTargetEnemy 3” in chat. An interface option will be added later."
these are all neat
cunning fossil
niiicd
cunning fossil
time to make some shit buildss
dense plover
DH tree is SO good
dense plover
rush of chaos not having prereqs?
dense plover
they need more of that
mossy meteor
you can go aoe / st
dense plover
i want talents that are just level locked but have no prereqs
like off to the side or something ya know
mossy meteor
and full demonic/meme beam
mossy meteor
and darkness
and blur
with blur being 50% dodge chance
which is insane for a tank
cunning fossil
Tanks get Chaos Nova
that's whild right?
Havoc also get the Aoe Silence
man this is wild
dense plover
god demon hunter trees fucking rule
now if they fixed monk tree all they need to do is fix druids and maybe priest
ionic terrace
crimson jasper
xD
ionic terrace
as
mossy meteor
most people will use raid style
ionic terrace
always
cunning fossil
lmao
cunning fossil
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/item=200282/a-steamy-romance-novel-the-lusty-dracon...
A new addition to my collection
dense plover
looks like theyre currently working on loadout tree stuff so you can share your talent trees
crimson jasper
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/item=200282/a-steamy-romance-novel-the-lusty-dracon...
those were always great xD
cunning fossil
I can edit it finallyy
dense plover
"Hail and well met, friends. I apologize if I startled you. Our arcane wards were activated and I felt obliged to investigate. My name is Khadgar, Archmage of the Kirin Tor." "Is that so? Well, come see me in camp. We'll try and find the answers you seek."
khadgar dialogue
looks like the siege on dragonbane is a 5 player minimum event now