enfusion_ai

[balmy gorge]

AI Squad control for starters -a staple from all previous titles

Ive already said that ...

[halcyon bridge]

which version of reforger had this feature, and when was it taken away?

[marble grail]

wasn't squad control stated in roadmap anyway?

[balmy gorge]

The series. Since OFP on has had AI squad control -srsly are you just F'n with me or what

[marble grail]

well who knows what will happen with AI spotting, current state of the game is not final 🤷

[balmy gorge]

well what im saying is -they arent showing any development or advancement on the issue

hence -why we bring it up

[marble grail]

ok then I get your point

[halcyon bridge]

did BI say that they will not be implementing AI command in Reforger? so the features for AI command that I can see in Workbench are just going to get removed?

[balmy gorge]

Your a troll Bacon pure and simple. Im not doing your homework for you.

[halcyon bridge]

I think AI command is in the roadmap so it makes sense there is some AI commanding stuff in the mod tools

[balmy gorge]

Its been on teh roadmap - it was promised for the ground Branch patch -yet strangely got removed. Now its more of a vague hope wishlist. Again, if youve followed the trajectory of AI development since the beginning of Ofp/Arma 1 on -youd understand better. Or...maybe not as you are uniquely literal..

[halcyon bridge]

not all features of ground support are out yet, but that doesn't automatically mean they will never be

[balmy gorge]

In my experience -developers take the path of least resistance. if they are not held to their previous standard and have a pattern of chipping away aspects -well then take notice

[balmy gorge]

Yeah thanks -Id clearly never thought of that.

[halcyon bridge]

bet

[balmy gorge]

Your about as helpful as a 50 percenter. Hey yeah it might rain probably probably not. thanks for your insightful contributions

[halcyon bridge]

I'm aware that it's being worked on so I don't feel like there's any need to complain about it

[balmy gorge]

Well yippie for you. Its not about complaining -its about accountability and keeping standards.

[late viper]

But, here you are in a modding channel complaining.

Calling bacon a troll but here you are.

[balmy gorge]

hes not adding anything to the discussion. I was talking and responding to a specific point on AI spotting -something i spent alot of time modding for Arma 3.

[halcyon bridge]

it would be disappointing if the feature was abandoned and never came to the game but so far I don't see why it wouldn't be implemented

[balmy gorge]

Just saying "well its not done yet. Its only Alpha/Beta/Just released/Post released" dont help anybody

[halcyon bridge]

neither does complaining about a feature that's not implemented yet

[late viper]

and coming to a modding channel to complain doesn't help anyoine

Reforger is a tech demo, if you don't like how things work sack up and make a mod yourself

[balmy gorge]

Again -i complaining vaguely like 'hey AI sucks!" -youd be right. Again - i came to make specific points. Sorry that hurts you.

[balmy gorge]

My AI mods for all of the above ive already made. but now its time for BI to put in the work and stop relying on modders

This is where the BI AI devs communicate so hence -this is where i make my case

[halcyon bridge]

AI perception and commanding comes up very often here, I'm sure there will be improvements on perception and hopeful for commanding to be added

there's plenty more wonky about the current state of AI in the game

it's quite difficult to find a problem with current AI that BI doesn't know about

[balmy gorge]

Its not about "knowing about". Theyve known about all sorts of similar issues in their AI for time infinitum. Leaving modders to fix it to this day.

You clearly dont follow the major Ai issuesof Arma 3

You really wanna educate yourself rather than towing the company line -go spend a day or two in Arma 3 Editing forums and learn about years long problems that only the Devs could fix and modders twisting themselves into pretzels trying to solve what should have been vanilla solutions. Like AI units hiding in grass as just one of many examples

[shy lake]

This 1 day in a couple week's when froggys show's up to 🤬 💥 🌋 🤜 🥵 #enfusion_ai 🙈

[balmy gorge]

i came to answer and support the complaint on AI perception and was so kindly greeted by the White Knight patrol. Thats Sir froggy to you SNKMAN

😄

[halcyon bridge]

I agree with you on that the AI can be a lot better, but there is no indication that the problem is going to be left to be solved by modders, also perhaps @shy lake can clue you in on whether modding AI will be more powerful now than in previous titles

[balmy gorge]

Whats the indication it will be improved?

Their track record is horrible on this

[late viper]

well take it to the complaint department

[balmy gorge]

Ill voice my concerns where i damned well please

[halcyon bridge]

I find more and more relevant things in Workbench with each update, so there is evidence that there is work being done in regards to AI

[balmy gorge]

Again -look at what i first came to respond to before everyone turned into nervous nancies

a very specific point

[halcyon bridge]

my apologies for answering the question you tagged me with

[balmy gorge]

No. You came in with your "bruh. people complain EA blah blah blah.." blather. I wasnt talking to you at all until your bro-speech

[halcyon bridge]

you are 100% right

[late viper]

Sorry he hurt your feelings

[balmy gorge]

Youve added less than anyone -as i guess you know very little to nothing about the AI of this game

[halcyon bridge]

yep, you are correct and everyone else is wrong

[balmy gorge]

hyperbole.

[halcyon bridge]

they have an opening for an AI Programmer position for Arma 4 on their site, have you considered helping them solve AI issues?

[shy lake]

Well they put quite some work into Reforger A.I. since release.
Esp. the major update's always changed A.I. to the better by a lot.
Still there is much to do but like Sparker already said it will take a lot of time to develope all thouse things.

[balmy gorge]

nope - but i have buddy modders who are and I hope they do

Look what JohnnyBoys done with AI in Prarie Fire for example

And i have another friend even more talented but thats under strict NDA

[late viper]

I was just pointing out the fact that it's a tech demo, from which one could conclude that it's incomplete. And complaining about something that's incomplete is like complaining about food you haven't eaten yet.

[balmy gorge]

Learn what trajectory means. Learn the history of both Singleplayer and AI de-evolution in the past few titles and DLCs. Then youll understand my point better. Or..maybe not..

[late viper]

Then take it up with BI and not with the modders.

[balmy gorge]

Im still hopeful -but cautiously and certainly not foolishly optimistic that the des will just "do the right thing"

[balmy gorge]

Im am part of "the modders" -and was addressing what the devs need to implement to help us -specifically on spotting. jesus man -do you have some kinda obstinate disorder?

Maybe read things in their entirety instead of kneejerk white knighting

Ok im done with you -you have absolutely nothing of substance being said

[shy lake]

Puuhh... It' over... ✌️

[cursive current]

"Cry about something"
Others disagree...
"Drop a dime insult like Poopy mcPoopFace"
Others don't go away or suddenly agree with you.....
"get more mad and throw another insult about comprehension or intelligence, that ought to teach them"
Doesn't teach them.
"Add another insult and then say I'm done. That way you win... something"

Sound about right?

[balmy gorge]

Nope. More like make a valid criticism- same old faces pop in immediately to remind everybody “ it’s in EA still”. Rinse repeat ad nauseum

[halcyon bridge]

it's not over until I say it's over

[balmy gorge]

Honestly why would people that don’t even understand the AI coding respond - they need to call snkman just to help them find a point

Well if it ain’t the pot - meet kettle black

[haughty ivy]

Lol you guys

[haughty ivy]

Reforger is not a tech demo, or a proof of concept, it is a product that is being worked on still. Now, this may not be the rationale BI uses, but a tech demo traditionally is a proof of concept for a specific technology, whether that is a game engine or a gameplay system, that is used to demonstrate the viability of some design. Reforger is a full product, and marketed as one being in “early access (to the full product)”, which explains the 40$ price tag in my country (I don’t know about others).

The complaints about the games state are valid, when taken into context. There are a lot of improvements BI made, stuff like rendering and engine access is a whole lot better, but there are also things that have not been improved on (or have gotten worse), one of those is the AI

It is understandable that BI has not been working on the AI as much as people want, because (at least from what I have seen on steam news) they have been busy patching the countless network and engine problems, and giving the features that directly impact players in the multiplayer setting (which appears to be their main focus for the title, to my disappointment)

[thick sentinel]

this is about AI modding

[haughty ivy]

I mean is it so offtopic to talk about the vanilla AI here? I would expect the people interested would be here

is there somewhere else

[thick sentinel]

@balmy gorge what are you on? and why did you derailed this channel?

[haughty ivy]

I’m a concerned party for the singleplayer and AI sandbox features of Arma titles, so the capabilities of that (modded or not) determines whether im gonna buy A4 😄

[thick sentinel]

it theory it would be condoned, despite being still offtopic , and i would not intervene if there wouldn’t have gone way oftopic

[thick sentinel]

there are all the general channels for reforger, i have seen minimal technical talk here that would make this the correct channel

[haughty ivy]

Oh yeah i dunno what happened before - I just saw someone was talking about the game being a tech demo, which i think is a critical error

[haughty ivy]

ok

[balmy gorge]

If you look at my first post i was talking about specifically AI spotting and other issues - i didnt derail it was bacon and Co coming in here playing gatekeeper as usual with the "Bruh stop complaining its EA". Literally every single time ive come in this subthread he spams me with that. You wanna call that on me Pufu -you known me long enough -go ahead, be my guest. But the point is i came with specific points not a generalized rant -thats what it devolves into when people who dont know what theyre talking about just start mouthing off nonsense

And for the record, klamacz early on came in this very channel and asked what we would like to see in the series AI-wise so its not without precedent

[thick sentinel]

i can’t read everything and i cannot be omnipresent, same for your past interactions

[balmy gorge]

Im not asking you to -just be fair. If you see my initial posts -i was clarifying another guys posts.

[thick sentinel]

again, the issue is not how the thread / channel is used, but about the entire offtopic and personal dabs

[balmy gorge]

Well in the future ill just ignore that guy as he always drags me down a rabbit hole where i feel i have to qualify my understanding AI again and again. Its not an honest discussion nor in good faith

Fair enough?

[thick sentinel]

next time ping a moderator to mediate interactions, rather than try do it on your own.
i read your initial point, i also have read. everything else - and without being aware if any other history you might have, you were the more aggressive party. you can block individual users if it helps

let’s be civil and on the point, and that goes for everyone else just as well

[haughty ivy]

I think BI is teetering on a direction that I can’t follow, product wise

And that is my biggest concern as someone who genuinely loves the franchise but also has aspirations in mind

My hope is that Arma 4 does not rely on modders to make the AI to the standard that’s already been achieved with A3 + mods, but for it to exist to begin with, and be improved in other ways

The past ~8 months I have not seen any word about major improvements to the AI (except adding driving), but I could be wrong

[nova gull]

The last I've seen it described was 'forget walking, it's still learning to crawl'... that said, I'd say that this channel and in particular ATiM's remarks have been the public source I know of for the details about Arma Reforger AI

From what I understand part of the potential/hopes for Enfusion-powered AI have been less how good it is out-of-the-box and more how moddable it may be, without the technical debt incurred by Arma 3 AI for over a decade before that game's release

Then again, as we learned from Reforger's release, said technical debt/engine limitations went hand-in-hand with 'the foundation holding up the whole edifice' in the first place... whenever BI tried to go away from that we got not only Reforger but infamously DayZ for years before that (despite that also having originally been built on a Real Virtuality 3-based foundation)

[shy lake]

Well i'm messing with BI A.I. for almost 15 year's now starting with it at the very early day's of Arma 1.
Over the year's BI added a lot of so called "Micro A.I." behaviors to the vanilla RV A.I. which made it harder to mod with every new Arma title and at the very end i found myself spending much more time with finding workarounds for thouse "Micro A.I." behaviors than actually A.I. modding.
Now we have Enfusion and A.I. is missing a lot of it's base functionality we know from previous Arma RV titles.
BUT they are also miss all their messy "Micro A.I." behaviors which finally make them fun to mod again bcuz they do EXACTLY what you like them to do.
From my "Personal" point of view this alone is a HUUGE improvement over RV A.I. modding.
In addition to this.
Enfusion A.I. already is doing a lot of stuff we've never seen in any previous Arma RV title like sharing ammo / healing each other / avoidig to get hit/reacting to grenades they also move/navigate very well now after dev's put some more work into the Navmesh.
I have to agree that rn Reforger vanilla A.I. look's very basic/generic from the outside but taking a closer look into the current A.I. system you can already see it's HUGE potential waiting to be used/activated.
It's just a matter of time. 🦾

[haughty ivy]

Thanks man, if I could just pick at your knowledge for a moment?

Do you think that the modding of the AI in future titles is going to be more performance eheavy? My concern is that we are given a very base AI but that modifying it is going to drive down the FPS to worse again

[shy lake]

Right now enfusion A.I. in code/script and behavior trees are not optimized at all or to a bare minimum only.
There are many part's which don't need to be looped/checked/triggered as much and as fast as they do now.
So yeah once optimized they will perform a lot better.
Also thank's to behavior trees we don't have too much unnecessary stuff looping in the background bcuz there can be one bahavior tree active only.
A.I. behavior trees are using a priority system where the BT with the highest priority will always be the one to be executed.
It will proceed each behavior tree given on it's priority from highest to lowest which will avoid A.I. from using said unnecessary stuff and at the end contribute to much better A.I. performance in general.

I've already spend some good 1k+ hours with enfusion A.I. modding since Reforger release.
I wouldn't do this if i wouldn't have any hope in it.

[wise pebble]

Still haven't found a good solution. Guess I could also try to have AI disembark if it has entered, but that isn't very elegant.
Does anyone know something better?

[shy lake]

You ask about it in combinatin with A.I. defend waypoint?
What vehicle exactly you ask for?

[wise pebble]

Yes, the vehicle is a BTR.

[shy lake]

And defend wp?

[wise pebble]

Yes

Could probably alter the waypoint itself, just wondering if there's a way to do it on the vehicle.

[shy lake]

If you use the waypoint in the world editor you can simply enable/disable it directly in the waypoint behavior.
If in GM it's more tricky i guess.

[wise pebble]

Alright, I'll just do that then, in this case it's mostly sufficient anyway. 👍

[shy lake]

Yeah i will check if i can find another way but yes this seem's like the best way for now.
Maybe you can kinda lock specific positions ( turret ) of a vehicle in the vehicle compartment component?

[wise pebble]

This will disable it for players too, right?

[shy lake]

Forget about it... It fully removes the turret from the vehicle... 🤪

[boreal quiver]

How would you optimise like 250+ AIs ?

[haughty ivy]

^

[shy lake]

Not sure what kind of A.I. optimization you are looking for exactly.
Internally ( Script & Behavior Tree ) based there is already a LOT of stuff you can optimize in terms of loop/executing frequency.
When it comes to external optimization you could check the "Character_Base.et" or/and "SCR_ChimeraAIAgentFull.et" to change stuff like for example "Dynamic Sim Lod1 Distance".

[boreal quiver]

Dont really know what im looking for 😄 Just tried to have a large number chase me.
If you host&play you get <10 fps. But other players are fine at like 50+. So mostly Server side optimizations.
If possible I want 1000+ to be around and working smoothly (Maybe only possible with a dedicated server)
But thanks for the answer, Ill check out these settings.

[opal flame]

I think vanilla has some it delays ai code if there are too many ai

I don't think you can get over 200 working fully, but your fps should be fine

The easiest way to optimize ai is to delete them and only spawn them when they are needed

[boreal quiver]

I need them all 😄

[opal flame]

Are they all in combat with players?

If yes, then definitely wht ATiM said, will help

I haven't tested this in reforger, but in arma 3 for example:
When characters had backpacks, it was an extra object that was basicallt AttachedTo the character

Having and extra object and also doing a position translation constaly is costly

So I found HUGE performance increase by removing all backpacks from all ai 🙂

You could try that for reforger, try removing items and gear and then compare, if it's big enough it might be worth pursing

[halcyon bridge]

some stuff that comes to mind:

• if you are bohemia, do more AI stuff in parallel instead of basically sequential (some of you donuts like calling it multithreading)
• use higher animation LOD (or switch LOD up at shorter distance)
• remove unnecessary behaviors from the AI agents (they dont need to check their map, their compass, etc) if you are in control of the mission - you can also completely disable behaviors and/or events other than "move" when they are certain distance away from where you need them to be

you could also try to disable obstacle avoidance and just have them blindly walk toward a path of waypoints if you are confident they won't get blocked, but once they get in combat you'll definitely have performance loss

if you'd rather not bother with any of this but need high AI amount for missions I would suggest to actually not spawn 200 AI but make the player only feel like there is 200 AI (ie. have a couple squads that are being respawned when killed so the player is constantly under pressure)

[shy lake]

Some very interesting stuff you guy's have in mind. 🤓 👍

[pliant arrow]

Why not do the same as in previous Arma games; where the AI is group based.
This way you can have 100 groups (manageable by the server), but with each 10+ units attached (so 1000 "units" in total).
Each group has a complex AI which takes resources, even when not in combat (although dynamic simulations could be implemented as well), while each separate unit only has some basic AI in case of combat (aka close to the player/enemy).

Although I'm sure this is already on the roadmap for Enfusion, just not for Reforger which is more a PvP game than PvE.

[haughty ivy]

I am in awe and confused as to why Bohemia is not utilizing parallelism to the maximum extent especially in 2023

I hope that as Enfusion grows they continue to improve on multithreading and multicore support so that, possibly in the future titles (closing in on 2030) we can see multiple threads allocated to AI processing

[halcyon bridge]

well one thing is for sure: it's not easy - but that's not an excuse - hardware has been moving toward more parallel execution for more than a decade now

[haughty ivy]

More than two decades

(If you include the commercial scope)

[halcyon bridge]

most video game workloads are relatively simple, but arma is not like most video games

[haughty ivy]

yeah

[halcyon bridge]

I've had some fun limiting the brain power of zombies, though the benefits were negligible

would be nice to have a profiler for scripts (I don't know how to enable Tracy)

[radiant kindle]

Has anyone else had issues with the A.I. ducking consistently with only the Squad Leader moving? It seems to happen fairly consistently on a live server if it's been up for a while, or possibly after a large prefab has been spawned haven't been able to narrow it down. Curious if there's a memory leak or something going on in the A.I. script

[boreal quiver]

The zombies from the Ravage mod are not wandering randomly. Im trying to understand this BT but it just instantly goes from the Move (4) to Idle (0) again and the zombie only rotates but doesn't move at all

[shy lake]

I think zombies don't use/have any kind of formation.
In this case "Get Formation Offset" node will return FAIL and it will start all over again keeping you in this "Idle > Get Fornation Offset > FAIL" loop.

[boreal quiver]

But it does go to the second Idle and move node. The wanderPos is also a valid position

[shy lake]

If that's the case maybe there is a wrong value in the "Move" node setting?
I'm not very familar with Ravage did you check how he made the zombies move?

[halcyon bridge]

please also load in bacon ravage patch because there are some changes there to fix various issues, if you have suggestions I'd be happy to add them

[boreal quiver]

Already did 😄

[halcyon bridge]

you are right there is no wandering, would it be useful for you if there was?

[boreal quiver]

There is, but its broken

And yes I want wandering 😄

[halcyon bridge]

well yes, which is why I say there is no wandering

alright

[boreal quiver]

Would be awesome if you can fix it and explain why its not working

[halcyon bridge]

ok!! I can't get in touch with the creator of the mod to implement any fixes so I have to make patch mod

@shy lake is there some wiki page on how to use the debugger to preview what stuff is doing? do I have to add debug prints everywhere?

[shy lake]

This: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Behavior_Editor#In-Game_Setup and https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Behavior_Editor#Debugging

No need to add print nodes.
It will be kinda live debug directly in the behavior tree editor.

[halcyon bridge]

nice

well the Move node runs but they dont feel like walking, valid destination and all

[halcyon bridge]

how does red look like and how does dark red look like?

yeah ok the move node returns success

[halcyon bridge]

lol thanks

yeah so the move node flashes green but the agent isnt moving, I don't see any information that anything failed

it moves fine when ran in a different bt when a target is found

same move node

is there some kind of log that would tell me if the move is canceled by anything or something?

[shy lake]

Maybe it need's the "InAimOrientatedXY" thing like where you have to determ the look direction.

[halcyon bridge]

the move node when it finds a target is the same and yet the agent moves

[shy lake]

The position is right?
It need's to be at least 0.1m in distance.

[halcyon bridge]

alright precision was too low, easy fix

[shy lake]

Work's?

[halcyon bridge]

yup, precision was 0 so the agent was like "looks fine to me"

[shy lake]

Alright. 👍

[boreal quiver]

What does precision do?

[halcyon bridge]

you can imagine it as how close to the position is acceptable as destination

@boreal quiver is this ok?

[boreal quiver]

perfect 😄

[halcyon bridge]

after 2 minutes

ok will update now

[boreal quiver]

So why does 0 not work then? Should it not go to the exact point then?

[halcyon bridge]

1 is 100%, 0 is 0%

[boreal quiver]

Ohhh I see

[halcyon bridge]

so the agent was just nah

relatable

I set it to 0.9, hope they dont get stuck trying to go somewhere

if they do, another random move should have them reconsider

[shy lake]

Well the "PrecisionXY" of the "Move" node can be set to anything but not 0 lowest is 0.01 if i remember correctly.
The "PrecisionXY" will set within which distance in meters the agent has to be to the position for the move to return success.
If you set it to lets say 5 it will return success as soon as the agent is within 5 meters of it's move position.

[halcyon bridge]

ah its in units not a percentage

[shy lake]

Yes.

[halcyon bridge]

but then 0 doesnt make sense

0 would then be very precise

[shy lake]

Yeah it took me like 2 week's to figure 0 does not work... So idk why it is like that...

[wise pebble]

Can I make two factions not attack each other?
E. g. for making civilians that don't get murdered by AI

I didn't see a related option in the faction manager, but this has to be possible ...right?

[halcyon bridge]

two options:

1. create a faction and mod the enemy check to exclude your faction
2. create a faction that has characters/entities that have nothing in the faction name (in its faction affiliation component)

[wise pebble]

Tried the second one, didn't work for me. Is there something else I need to do?

[halcyon bridge]

hmm it worked for me

[wise pebble]

Disabling the faction affiliation component worked

[outer furnace]

In case of precisions Y and XZ when you set 0 it means that you don't care about it. So if both are set to 0 you are done with the movement because you just don't care

[shy lake]

Somehow i was expecting -1 to behave like i don't care and 0 to be like very precise.
As you can see many ppl use it like that incl. me for the first couple week's.
Once you know/found out it's okay but at first glance it is bit hard to understand esp. the "Move" node which is native engine code and therefor you can not check what it does/behave exactly.

[halcyon bridge]

idk if it's the same number I was playing with but I could see difference between various settings there instantly

[shy lake]

Yes if you are aware of it.
I've started by using scripts for A.I. movement instead of .bts and i very often used 0 distance to make A.I. stay/not move which messed stuff up.
In RV for example i very often used "unit doMove (getPos unit)" to make A.I. stay at their position or to clean up stucked A.I. movement.
Maybe i was too much focused on how i did it back in RV which does not apply to enfusion A.I. anymore.

[sinful palm]

Is it possible to move a Navmesh? I have a large assault ship on which ideally AI could walk/drive around between decks, whilst still being able to move the ship.

Open to other solutions that would achieve the result as I guess navmesh is totally static.

[cursive current]

Navmesh wouldn't move anything either. It's just a determining path for movement.

[sinful palm]

I know what a nevmesh is... hence the question 😕

[halcyon bridge]

nop, I guess have them sit down somewhere

it would be no biggie if we could stand on vehicles when they move but we slide off so they'd die even with navmesh redone

[sinful palm]

The ship itself not a vehicle, it doesn't go in motion, but ideally it could be placed anywhere without a seperate map for each location.

[halcyon bridge]

ohhh

I think you can't regenerate navmesh on runtime, compositions have some AI sentinel points but doubt they'd help in something that has multiple levels

[outer furnace]

If the ship doesn't move and is basically a building or something similar that you just put somewhere on the map and move it via a script or game master you can request rebuild of navmesh. Not on PC but method for it should be on either Aiworld or navmesh component.

Also I would say check gm or conflict what they do when they spawn compositions/buildings, they should be calling rebuild on that as well.

[haughty ivy]

Hey I’m just wondering if there is anyone working on a Ai driving mod since it doesn’t seem like we will get it soon. I would try to make one myself but I’m on Xbox

[thorny lake]

I doubt it, AI driving is very buggy ATM. Tho a couple of updates ago I bugged out the AI to drive but they followed the route the AI would on foot so the would crash into trees and stuff.

[haughty ivy]

I managed to have them drive a few weeks ago, but pretty much the same thing happened to me

[shy lake]

What does: "SCR_AIWorld > Load Balancing FPS = 40" do?

[halcyon bridge]

set it to 1 and find out

see if ai reaction time slows down

[shy lake]

I can't see any difference.
Maybe just another placebo option.

[outer furnace]

Currently it is disabled

[shy lake]

Alright. Thank you. 👍

[haughty ivy]

Whats new in AI

[indigo chasm]

Is there anyway I can make these AI not have some sus aimbot. I have tried the infusion ai but the still seem to be insane

[woeful salmon]

Download crx ai its really good and useful

[native patio]

although the crx aim accuracy sliders are flipped so if you put the slider all the way down it makes them all snipers but turn it all the way up and they might hit you eventually

[shy lake]

Yes that's correct.
Well bad naming choise of mine.
The original value it modify is called "AimOffset" so i thought it may is not telling anything to users so i named it "Aim Accuracy" which from a logical point of view is even worse... 🤪
I've already re-named it to "Aim Shake" which should explain it correctly:
More "Aim Shake" = worse aiming accuracy and Less "Aim Shake" = better aiming accuracy.

[halcyon bridge]

just name it aiming error

or name it accuracy and invert the slider value after its applied or something

[serene blade]

Is there a Civ mod in development?

[shy lake]

Some already said they would be interested to make something like this.
But so far there are none confirmed officially.

[halcyon bridge]

I was working on one but kinda lost interest because people stopped bugging me about it

I think a civ cloth mod could come with one

and have its own arsenal thats just a generic wardrobe instead of military crates

[shy lake]

Btw... How is your civ A.I. mod doing? 😋

[wise pebble]

I've got an issue related to AI navigation.
It's on a custom terrain and only happens in some subscenes, not in my dedicated GM one - the AI World settings are the same.
The problems are that the AI will navigate around objects in a really weird way (often running backwards) and also be unable to interact with objects like doors, at all (not the regular difficulties).
As I already said, both have the same AI World settings, the only obvious difference is the gamemode itself, but I haven't been able to track down the issue so far. Can someone familiar with AI maybe point me in the right direction based on the observed behavior?

[halcyon bridge]

build navmesh

[wise pebble]

I did generate and select a navmesh

But yeah, the issue seems to be that it for some reason doesn't work in my non-GM subscenes.

[wise pebble]

After deleting and re-adding SCR_AIWorld, it appears to be working. Huh.

[rich swift]

Hi Guys!
Possible use old OFP style ai commanding things in reforger early access?
I see slave group things, commanding components, ect..., but not see examples yet.

[balmy gorge]

nope.

[haughty ivy]

Haven't played ofp for a while but didn't realise they had fia too

[shy lake]

In OFP they were called Resistance.

[shy lake]

Rn all those thing's can be pretty normal.
The walking backward thing is something i see very often same with A.I. unable to open doors.
Like you've already noted setting up world A.I. system stuff or/and re-scan navmesh often helps to solve it.
However to me it still happens from time to time.
Guess it's something BI needs to improve esp. when it comes to A.I. door detection.

[shy lake]

Those are already in the code cuz they working on it.
At least that's what i guess aka HOPE! 🥲

At this point if you willed to put a $hit ton of time and effort into this which at some point in time will be highly possible be replaced by vanilla you may would be already able to do something similar like this.

[halcyon bridge]

I have an AI Agent in my custom entity, what do I need to do to fire a weapon that is inside a weapon slot component in this entity? This is not a character or a vehicle

[random owl]

Can you provide us little bit more? So what is it than? If not a character nor vehicle. How it should aim? and what kind of weapon does it use?

[halcyon bridge]

that's the thing, I'd like to know what components and setup the entity needs to be able to fire a weapon through bt without it being a character and a vehicle/turret

it can run BTs I just don't know how to use the fire weapon task, maybe it needs to be a character to use it

[random owl]

Ok you are right it's currently not possible and we have feedback about it from you. So you get answer as it will be evaluated.

Fire weapon task inside produce action for turret if there is one or character action otherwise.
But I'm not sure why not make it a turret? That would help you and make some sense if you are building a drone no?

[halcyon bridge]

I haven't considered that I think it's worth trying

[opal flame]

I want to fire guns with scripts too

[halcyon bridge]

well, if I add TurretControllerComponent (and TurretComponent) to my entity and press play it instantly crashes

[plain kindle]

??

[inner vine]

Do you have a WeaponManager component there ?

[halcyon bridge]

BaseWeaponManagerComponent

crash starts to happen after adding TurretControllerComponent

maybe something it wants is still missing

[inner vine]

Try to add TurretCompartmentSlot. but it should not be that

[halcyon bridge]

added compartment manager component and a turretcompartment, no crash

though I'm not sure how closer this brings me to having this entity's AI be able to fire the weapon

I guess someone has to be inside the compartment for it to work?

[inner vine]

Yes, you would need to put an AI inside the compartment, and make him hidden I guess

But I'm not good at AI anyway, hopefully someone will reply to you

[halcyon bridge]

thats ok there is very little about this project that isn't hacky

failing that I can just implement my own scripted weapon component, since spawning and launching projectiles is possible

then I can of course implement a scripted task for the behavior tree to fire it

[shy lake]

If you already have an "fake" AIAgent and you can use a BT with it i would just try to add a looping behavior tree with a "FIRE > 1 sec. IDLE" node so if it works it will fire once every
sec.
Maybe use a print node aswell to see whats actually accessing the BT.

Guess you already figured something. 👍

[halcyon bridge]

an additional benefit to this approach is infinite ammo for free

[shy lake]

So you just spawn projectiles wherever it is facing/aiming at?
Does it already use a trigger to fire?

[halcyon bridge]

yep its a player controlled entity

a version with working movement (about the only thing that fully works for now) is on the workshop in a scenario inside the A-10 mod if you want to zoom around, next to the A-10 airplane flying gokart

[shy lake]

Nice! 👍
Yeah there is pretty much alway's a solution for pretty much everything.
All it need's is the right idea and somewhat time.

[halcyon bridge]

my solution for the weapon part is not very good, hopefully at some point I can just have the engine deal with it for me instead of scripts held together by zip ties and duct tape

[shy lake]

Maybe it's not "optimal and somewhat hacky" but as long as it does the job why not.
As long as there is no other official way to do this that's pretty nice i guess.

[halcyon bridge]

I have checked Windows Event Viewer and it seems I have submitted 30 crash reports working on this project so far, though they are likely not 30 unique reports

okay back on topic of AI, what is required for AI to shoot my drone?

perceivablecomponent and factionaffiliationcomponent seems not enough

[shy lake]

Did you give the drone a side like US so USSR can detect them as enemy?

[halcyon bridge]

yep

they engage other characters so I think my AIWorld stuff is setup correctly

when I fly in front of them they raise their gun sometimes

[shy lake]

How exactly did you set it up rn?
Does it act as an AIAgent or Vehicle or is it just an Entity?

[halcyon bridge]

just an entity, there's a screenshot of components above, only now it has faction affiliation component and perceivable component

[shy lake]

Okay.

[halcyon bridge]

if it needs to be either a Vehicle entity or a ChimeraCharacter entity then I guess I'm not spending more time on this for now

they will raise their weapon but not track my movement / will not look at me

[random owl]

Don't worry we have quite good system for aggregation 😉

[shy lake]

Guess it somehow needs to be a "BaseTarget" to get used with A.I. detection.
Not quite sure also not sure how the "BaseTarget" thing works cuz it's all native code.

[halcyon bridge]

if the targeting/enemy detection functionality only cares about Character or Vehicle then that's ok just need to know if I should keep poking

[random owl]

I would expect that to be enough. Most probably we have some discrimination for characters and vehicles where it get excluded. I can try check for you.

[halcyon bridge]

no rush, I appreciate if you have time to check

[shy lake]

Does vanilla A.I. attack flying/air vehicles like helicopters with an AR as well?

But yeah they should at least be aware of it.

[halcyon bridge]

yes, their aim is not keeping up with the movement of the vehicle but they do perceive it as an enemy

[shy lake]

Oh nice.
I've never tested it at least in A3 A.I. did never attack an enemy type if they did not have a weapon to somehow damage it.

[halcyon bridge]

I mean I'm fine with AI shooting at my drone with anything and everything

[shy lake]

Agree.
I mean irl you would try everything possible as well instead of just getting killed without doing anything at all.

[halcyon bridge]

I want to dodge RPG rockets too

[random owl]

ok I think you are missing dmg manager in that entity.

[halcyon bridge]

in retrospect this is kind of obvious, like why shoot at something that's indestructible?

thank you

[random owl]

wellcome :]

[sinful palm]

Only 30 on one project? Then I guess like me you are not submitting every time...

[halcyon bridge]

it depends on how many hours were spent on this, I don't have an app usage tracker but maybe I should set one up

[shy lake]

Nice! 😉
Look's like they can even keep up with aiming. 👍

[halcyon bridge]

where is the AI waypoint behavior defined? as in, the part where they get a waypoint and do something

or rather how does the agent know when they get a waypoint

[shy lake]

Waypoints are checked and executed in "{EDCCB8F1E3A3BDF2}AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/HandleWP.bt" which is part of "{082D5B0D5D33DB1D}AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/Group.bt".

As soon as any waypoint was assigned to the A.I. group it will execute given waypoint behavior tree.

[halcyon bridge]

I see

[lapis aspen]

@halcyon bridge hi

[regal terrace]

With CampaignRemnantsSpawnPointEntity, if there are only two endpoints, both -1; they spawn, walk to the other -1, then back to the original, and then stop and stay there. Is that intended behavior?

if so, how would I make them continuously walk back and forth between the two points?

[halcyon bridge]

I suppose it is intentional

if you need them to patrol you may need to give them a waypoint yourself (via script?) when they reach their destination, to go back

[regal terrace]

Thanks for confirming, I'm just going through in world editor, only a thousand or two entities to look at lol wish me luck! There's other waypoints that are also broken so I need to go through and fix those anyways! I found a vanilla one in a tree for example I probably should have reported it to the feedback tracker or something.

[shy lake]

Well many thank's for implementing this:

Tweaked: AI perception: targets are now detected and identified not instantly but with delay. The delay depends on the target's amount of exposed aim points, size, stance, speed, illumination, and the observer's alertness
Already hade some real good fun playing around with it. 👍

[balmy gorge]

That does sound promising

[shy lake]

I think there is a problem with the new "SCR_AISendOrder_XXX" node(s).
If i use two of them right after another like "Stance STAND" and "Movement RUN" the second node "Movement RUN" will not be executed.
However if i just use a 0.300 idle/delay between them they bouth work as expected.
Somehow they override each other?

Will the old "SCR_AIOrder_XXX" node be removed or why exactly was it changed to have every order type in it's very own node?

[shy lake]

In experimental the "Force Move" waypoint now has priority of 30?
It always was 130 to make sure it's higher than Attack BT priority to make A.I. follow a "Force Move" order even if in combat.
Now they ignore "Force Move" order if in combat.

Navmesh object detection also seem's somewhat broken now.
A.I. is finding cover where no objects have been placed.
Sometimes they find cover in the middle of a road.
I use normal and the new lowRes navmesh.
I've also tryed with only one of them at a time but it was even worse... 🤪

My experimental build is somewhat cursed anyway's...
So not sure if it's just me and my cursed build or experimental in general causing those problems.

Very often "SCR_AIMoveFromUnknownFire.bt" is breaking the A.I. right now.
They move away but somehow A.I. get stuck in this behavior and don't do anything at all after it was used/triggered.

[winter fossil]

Does for anyone else the workbench crash when trying to open any navmesh (*.nmn) file? 😭

[shy lake]

You try to open them in Resource Browser?
I never did that but yes if i open them in Resource Browser it crashes for me as well.

[winter fossil]

How else can you open them? 😅

[shy lake]

Use the World Editor Navmesh tool.

[winter fossil]

I thought I can only generate and save new ones with it

[shy lake]

Well at least in experimental you can load them as well.

[winter fossil]

Ah neat, then I'll give it a try with the experimental one 🙂

[shy lake]

But i guess it will be pretty much the same as if you just make a full scan?

Not sure what exactly you try to do but yeah just give it a go. 😉

[winter fossil]

I don't want to generate a full scan of Everon. That takes ages and generates a huge amount of data xD

[shy lake]

Oh okay.

[winter fossil]

I'm trying to patch Everon's navmesh for my scenario

[shy lake]

Got it.

[winter fossil]

so I wanted to inspect my saved navmesh

since the patch didn't work as expected

I'm not even sure the patching works to begin with. All vanilla scenarios seem to have their own full navmeshes rather than patches from what I've seen. An example for patching would have been nice^^

[shy lake]

Yeah i was wondering this as well if you would be able modify them at all.

[winter fossil]

At least based on Lou's documentation, you should be able to patch with the help of Navmesh File Overide entries in the SCR_AIWorld prefab.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Navmesh_Tutorial

[shy lake]

Oh yes right.
Well i've never used it so far.
Let me know if this worked for you.

Experimental did quite some changes to Navmesh in general + adding a new ( lowRes ) navmesh type.

[winter fossil]

I did not think of experimental. Thanks for letting me know!

[winter fossil]

You can definitely modify them. Game master calls some methods of SCR_AIWorld for rebuilding areas at runtime. So that could be my alternative approach if I don't get patching working

Notably RequestNavmeshRebuildAreas

[shy lake]

Okay nice. 👍

[winter fossil]

I couldn't figure out how to get Navmesh File Overide working, even on experimental. So I gonna stick to runtime rebuilding for the time being, since that seems to work at least.

[balmy gorge]

Are windows treated as particulor objects so that AI can be given behaviours to operate them? meaning approaching houses by checking windows as well as defenders using them as firing positions?

[haughty ivy]

@shy lake Are you still working on your AI mod? Is it on the workshop

[regal terrace]

there are two versions on the workshop, i use the newer one (& love it)

[haughty ivy]

Which is the new one

[regal terrace]

Advanced Warfare

[haughty ivy]

Do you have a link

[regal terrace]

just search the workshop for that, or "CRX"

[haughty ivy]

Forgot the search

[shy lake]

Sure.
Still messing with it as we speak. 😉

[haughty ivy]

Does your mod improve the AI's cover system?

Or is it still the meat grinder 😄

[shy lake]

This was pretty much my very first goal when starting to mess with Reforger.
So yes it highly improves the A.I. cover utilization.

[haughty ivy]

Does it just automatically apply when I enter Game Master or do I need to do anything more?

[shy lake]

New build of CRX even more! 🦾

[haughty ivy]

excited to see it

[shy lake]

Just download and enable it.

Will be used by default then.

[shy lake]

Guess: class SCR_AIMoveFromUnknownFire : SCR_AIMoveFromDangerBehavior
Is missing the behavior tree definition: m_sBehaviorTree = "{4AAB5EF821822EDB}AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Soldier/MoveFromDanger_UnknownFire.bt";
After i've added this A.I. stopped from getting stuck in this behavior.

Nevermind...
It's caused by "m_bIsInterruptable = false" flag.
Making it interruptable solved it.

[shy lake]

Edit:
Maybe my fault bcuz i've changed:

//-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
override bool IsActionInterruptable()
{
    return m_bIsInterruptable;
    
    // return m_bIsInterruptable || m_eState != EAIActionState.RUNNING;
}

The new 2. condition of it "m_eState != EAIActionState.RUNNING;" alway's made my NONE interruptable behavior interruptable.
So maybe this is why A.I. using "MoveFromDanger_UnknownFire.bt" got stuck in the behavior?

[regal terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-confused-math-gif-26401710

[shy lake]

Exactly! 😂

It's a bit more like this tbh: 😜

[shy lake]

Is A.I. actually able to properly use binoculars or is it just some eye candy which is blocking A.I. vision instead?

[shy lake]

Nevermind... They are.
I just forgot to return the increased perception factor. 🤪

[regal terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/confusing-math-gif-20422834

[willow niche]

so arsenal box. how do i add gear to it?

[lament umbra]

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Entity_Catalog

[wise musk]

Hi, hope this is the right channel, I'm looking for the latest AI squad voice command mod/add on. COuld anyone point me in the right direction please?

[winter fossil]

Just wanted to let you know that the navmesh patching via file override seems to work now with the recent update 🙂

[cursive marsh]

How to change the menu briefing, change the layout for example. Thank you in advance

[winter fossil]

There's a SCR_RespawnBriefingComponent for that attached to to the game mode entity

[cursive marsh]

Yeah, but not - briefingComp, for that task im need SubMenuBriefingComp

[cursive marsh]

But thanks a lot for your reply.

[balmy gorge]

Are you sure this is a real thing for Reforger and not Arma3? Thought Reforger didnt have AI squad commands yet? Someone here mentioned there was some base functionality but one had to create a mod just to access it so maybe you are correct

[winter fossil]

Anyone else had issues in the past with AI patrols getting stuck indefinitely at some random point in time? I tried to make a test world for reproducing the issue more consistently, but if anyone got more details, it would be appreciated here: https://feedback.bistudio.com/T172414

From my experience it happened most frequently when the next waypoint is in the opposite direction of the current one

[regal terrace]

Or an unreachable waypoint, like under the map or up in a tree.

[winter fossil]

Yes, but that can be fixed easily on our end by using pos[1] = SCR_TerrainHelper.GetTerrainY(pos);, which ensures that the position is on the terrain.

[regal terrace]

Yeah I suppose so! I found a couple vanilla conflict waypoints like that, but I just used snap to surface in world editor to fix that.

Unless it was in a tree, then I had to move it so no tree branches were in the way of it getting to the surface.

[winter fossil]

Yeah, I use the line above for my randomly generated waypoints, but in the world editor, the snap context action comes in handy, as you said.

[timid light]

I just want to spawn an AI sniper in a guard tower, or get them to climb the ladder and take position, and this code works some of the time. Other times they spawn on top of the tower, and spawning them nearby and giving them the action waypoint means they just stand there and do nothing.

IEntity tower = GetGame().GetWorld().FindEntityByID(towerID);
        
        array<Managed> outComponents = {};
        SCR_AISmartActionSentinelComponent component;
        SCR_AISmartActionSentinelComponent sentinel;
        array<string> outTags = {};
        tower.FindComponents(SCR_AISmartActionSentinelComponent, outComponents);
        
        foreach (Managed outComponent : outComponents)
        {
            component = SCR_AISmartActionSentinelComponent.Cast(outComponent);
            if (!component)
                continue;
            component.GetTags(outTags);
            if (outTags.Contains("CoverPost") && component.IsActionAccessible())
            {
                sentinel = component;
            }
        }
                
        if(!sentinel) return false;
        
        vector actionPos = tower.GetOrigin() + sentinel.GetActionOffset() - "0 1.3 0";
                
        EntitySpawnParams params = EntitySpawnParams();
        params.TransformMode = ETransformMode.WORLD;
        params.Transform[3] = actionPos;
        SCR_AIGroup group = SCR_AIGroup.Cast(GetGame().SpawnEntityPrefab(Resource.Load(m_Config.GetOccupyingFaction().m_aGroupSniperPrefab), null, params));

for reference I mean these towers:

[wise pebble]

Can anyone link an explanation of the low res navmesh option, I think I'm a bit out of the loop about that one.

[wise pebble]

If I generate one, what settings should I use? Probably not the default ones, right?

[spiral coral]

I'm also stuck on this. There are 3 navmeshWorldComponents (2 active) do we alter the first and disable the 3rd?
And what about the Low Resolution Navmesh ? Do we leave it at "none" or set it to soldier/btr ?

Anyways, generated a whole navmesh, and unlike before the update, the AI pathfinding seems none excistent (+ ai don't climb over fenches etc). With other words: it's not working 😄

[spiral coral]

normally we would go with navtool : "soldier" NavmeshWorldcomponent also "soldier"

[wise pebble]

It's supposed to have 3 components, I suspect there should just be 2 active navmeshes at once (3 once vehicle navmeshes are working).
The question is what generation options should be used for the low res navmesh.

[spiral coral]

"The question is what generation options should be used for the low res navmesh"

Yeah we need a little tutorial indeed.

[outer furnace]

Hey, so there are two possibilities for you rn

1. legacy one - you just disable third navmesh and disable use navmesh streaming. This should cause everything to work as before.
2. new "saving tons of memory on server" one - you set third navmesh to LowRes and on soldier navmesh you set Low resolution navmesh to LowRes. The way this works is that pathfinding will find path on LowRes and load tiles needed for pathfinding into the world.

[wise pebble]

Thanks, appreciated.
How is mptest_LowRes.nmn generated? I assume you need to change some generation settings for this to actually make sense.

[outer furnace]

TBH default recast settings that are in the prefab should be ok, one quite important thing is filter object during generation flag that causes all entities that don't have on filtered navmesh to not be considered during navmesh generation.
You can generate that navmesh using navmesh tool, just during connecting you need to connect to LowRes

[spiral coral]

I think i got it to work, tested multiple locations on Everon Xtra, and Ai seem to find a way around buildings, through and around castlegates and walls.

[spiral coral]

Not sure if this is the way, but i generated 2 navmeshes, 1 for the first navmeshWorldcomponent and 1 for the third. (1 = soldier, the other = lowres)
(save in your project folder)

[outer furnace]

That sound about right 🙂

[sly harness]

Do we know if the 'head' option will be implemented in the "Character Aim" scripted node ?
My zombies end up walking sideways sometimes, and I can't really fix that without it. :/

[near hemlock]

Who's responsible for the CRX mods?

[balmy gorge]

pretty sure its the Artist formerly known as SNKMAN

[near hemlock]

Any word on when or if it will be fixed? AI no longer patrol and just funnel towards the gun fire

[balmy gorge]

Well i cant answer as i dont play it (waiting for AI Command) but pretty sure i read him say that the last update set him back on his project

[near hemlock]

What's ai command?

[balmy gorge]

The ability to command the AI like all of the other Arma games. It’s supposed to be on this crop of Ground Support patches

[near hemlock]

So it's something BI is implementing themselves we won't need a mod?

[balmy gorge]

Yes

[regal terrace]

Have you tried today? Pretty sure I saw an update posted!

[near hemlock]

It adds some things, but it's missing the AI patrol routes

[regal terrace]

AI Patrol routes (Like the ones you create in world editor)? I dont think that was ever in there, or is that some game master thing, IDK?

anyways, you can keep up to date with updates etc here: #1050433454388547644

[near hemlock]

GM would put them down and they use to make their own patrol routes

[regal terrace]

oh I never noticed that, but I only used them on my custom scenario and they only used the waypoints I placed down myself.

ask the author, he for sure knows more about his mod than me 🙂

[marble grail]

I'm pretty sure you can make bots aim with head, check how LookAction bt is implemented, it makes AI look with their head at different things

[sly harness]

I did, and it's using the same scripted node, with the 'weapon' option rather than the 'head' one.
I haven't tested the vanilla AI extensively, but I don't think I ever saw an AI turning its head independently from its body.

[marble grail]

he turns body if simple head turn is not enough to look at something

it's using the same scripted node, with the 'weapon' option rather than the 'head' one
I guess the 'head' aiming option doesn't matter, if he has weapon raised he'll aim with weapon, if not he'll aim with head and then with body

[sly harness]

Actually (well, from what I can observe), it looks like the AI first turns its head, and then its torso no matter what (even if turning its head is enough).
I wanted to allow some latency between the moment a zombie spots something interesting and the moment it decides to move to it - which causes those sidesteps if the zombie happens to be wandering during that time...
I guess I'll have to let go of this idea for now, and better synchronize their aiming & movement.

[marble grail]

Ok I see, so you wanted to forbid body rotation

[sly harness]

Yep, or at least delay it until the zombie changes its movement direction; I thought it would look more natural. The BTs already make the distinction between "suspected" and "confirmed" target to allow different 'aiming' methods, but it looks like I'll have to wait and see if BI does something about the lack of options with that node.

[fair magnet]

Hey yall I have a map i've been working on, and I can't get the AI to engage each other? I have no idea where to even start 😄

[regal terrace]

make sure your factions are set in the game mode, there is also a flag in faction manager for making them friendly to a faction(s), thats all i can think of

[fair magnet]

still nothing... i'm not sure what the issue is lol

[regal terrace]

are you using default/vanilla factions?

[fair magnet]

Yup

[fair magnet]

I figured it out I was missing the perception prefab smh thank you for helping

[lost elm]

Hello,

I'm relatively new to AI modding and have been experimenting with Workbench and its associated tools. I would appreciate any guidance you could provide.

Specifically, I'm in search of a debugger tool that allows visibility of scripts within decision trees when using Workbench -> Play inside the viewport. At present, I'm unable to discern which scripts from the decision trees are utilized by the soldiers at any particular moment. Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

[shy lake]

You can use the "Diag Menu".
There is a section specifically for A.I. debug.
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Diag_Menu
Another thing i always use is the CLI: -scrDefine AI_Debug
Simply put "-scrDefine AI_Debug" without the "" in your Workbench startup parameters.
You were asking me about the CLX debug.
Sorry i forgot to reply...
You can enable it by using "-scrDefine CRX_Debug".

[stable wagon]

does someone have done a wildlife AI yet? for cows or chicken?

[halcyon bridge]

while true go to random position then sleep for a random number of seconds

done

[shy lake]

There are animals in the game?

[stable wagon]

[marble grail]

there are no animals in the game

also probably a behavior tree running for a chicken would be an overkill

[wise pebble]

I'm getting crashes whenever I put a second navmesh into the world (including subworlds), with a corresponding "Assertion Failed" crash message.
a) Is this supposed to happen? The message suggests this, but why would it have to crash?
b) It even crashes when one of them is disabled, which should not happen either way.

[opal flame]

What script makes AI walk towards the target and shoot while walking?
What scirpt may have the maximum range for this?
Maximum range for just shooting without moving?

[opal flame]

EAICombatActions does parts of this in the SetCombatType (in case anyone else looking)

[marble grail]

it's just the attack behavior tree

there is part for moving, part for shooting, they both work in parallel

[lost elm]

Thanks

[nova gull]

It's been said on #reforger_experimental that AI commanding is now live, the default PC keybind being holding ~

[timid light]

its not live, its just a keybind

Nillers says most likely in 0.9.10

rumours are that there is still some network sync issues to work through

[nova gull]

Thanks for the correction

[nova gull]

@shy lake @carmine solar I thought you two might be interested in these anecdotes from #reforger_experimental: the AI appear to interact with the unconsciousness/revive/treatment mechanics and behave differently in other ways, e.g. reaction to contact:

One of the most foremost changes is the fact that when hearing gunfire, the Scout/SL among them will look for contact with binoculars
Then the RTO will give a callout, and theyll move towards contact after like 30 seconds
#reforger_experimental message

[carmine solar]

Yeah I saw that first one. 2nd one is cool too. Still waiting on them being able to drive and take cover though. Getting kind of sick of the zerg rushing. Thanks for the heads up on that though!

[nova gull]

The second seemed a meaningful difference from prior zerg rushing, hence my tagging you... but I take it from your response that for you the zerg rushing is specifically about their advance, whereas Trace Snow Owl's observation was about what can now come before that

Breaking, new anecdote just dropped from Marko in that channel:

In my testing ai still remains oblivious to whats happening around them. Like ai next to them gets shot point blank and they dont notice, they continue watching the sunset, until gunfire doesnt touch them specifically.

But ai is now much more versed in rpg usage, and very accurate with it. Like snipe you at 100m thru forest with rpg, while driving at high speed.

Also ai waking up from uncon is my new nightmare

[carmine solar]

Yeah it's pretty much that I don't like them not staying put where I place them and I don't like their lack of cover. It becomes a turkey shoot pretty fast

[nova gull]

Gotcha... since that isn't on the roadmap the thing to do is observe I suppose

[carmine solar]

Yeah. The other day I mentioned that of the 4 things I want the most, 1 of them for sure won't be in the A4 release and may never become a feature, 1 might not be in the release but will hopefully eventually be there, 1 will be in Reforger but according to the roadmap in only a half assed fashion, and the other, AI using cover, hasn't even been mentioned

[marble grail]

Yeah covers would be great to have 😄

[haughty ivy]

I haven’t played the last 3 months so perhaps it has changed but, the AI do zerg rush 90% of the time on my end. I am probably used to mods like LAMBS and TCL which add some more realistic cover/suppression features, I would love to see the more reactive elements of AI integrated natively

[opal flame]

I forced EAICombatActions.MOVEMENT_WHEN_FIRE to false and just placing down groups in game master they did much better comapred to vanilla(in terms of not rushing)
#1050433454388547644 << check out this mod for probably the most ai mod of reforger

[haughty ivy]

Yeah i hope all these features become vanilla

[keen marlin]

Hey everyone, im new to modding, just wanted to ask if there is a way to auto populate random AI over my map of choice? Or do I need to physically place units onto the map

[wise pebble]

At runtime or in editor?

[keen marlin]

what ever one is easier for a beginner

i'm thinking runtime?

[wise pebble]

The easiest way to have AI in your scenario is to just place it in the World Editor.
If you want to spawn them at runtime (at some point ingame or at random positions), you will have to write a script that does this.

What you could also do is place them before and then on game start use a script to randomly delete some of them, this will also achieve randomization.

It really depends on what you're trying to do.

[keen marlin]

just wanting a set number of roaming AI over the map. more so in towns

to set them "roaming" would i need to create waypoints for each group after placing them on the map?

[halcyon bridge]

there is no built-in functionality for this

you'd need to write your own

[wise pebble]

The easiest way to achieve this is by using the World Editor to place AI Group prefabs in your subworld at the desired locations.
If you want them to roam around, you'll also have to assign waypoints to them, yes.

[keen marlin]

yeah ok. thanks for all the information 🙂 i think i have a good starting point. thank you

[wise pebble]

There is a Patrol waypoint, but I haven't tested it. Probably only good for patrolling around small areas.

[keen marlin]

might be a case of trial and error until i work out exactly what i am after.

[halcyon bridge]

I wrote something like this before #enfusion_ai message

it does take some elbow grease but it's not very complicated, spawn and assign waypoints when there are none for the group

[keen marlin]

thanks @wise pebble , and @halcyon bridge you mind if i take a look?

[halcyon bridge]

my stuff doesn't work anymore but I am happy to provide emotional support

you'd need to learn scripting, though

[regal terrace]

if you are modding AI for conflict, it is kinda different from game master. I would study a vanilla conflict mode to see how the waypoints are setup/configured using campaignRemnantsSpawnPoints I believe they are called.

[timid light]

https://github.com/ArmaOverthrow/Overthrow.Arma4/blob/df451543dd4d9a9ade0b8aa0f7f1a4cd84a66be2/Scripts/Game/Controllers/OccupyingFaction/BaseUpgrades/OVT_BasePatrolUpgrade.c#L96

this is part of my system to spawn random patrols at bases in Overthrow. You can see the base detection in OVT_OccupyingFactionManager.InitializeBases() which uses GetGame().GetWorld().QueryEntitiesBySphere and looks for "military area" map markers

I then generate random points around the base and spawn waypoints for each. Its a good idea to use a "patrol" waypoint then put a "search and destroy" waypoint on top of it, that way they will walk (not run) to the waypoint, then search the area including clearing buildings before going to the next waypoint if no enemies were found

OVT_BaseUpgradeTownPatrol does the same thing for patrols to towns, basically the same concept, searching the map for village, town and city markers then generating random points around that town for waypoints

my code is free for you to copy and use if you wish as its released on MIT license

add a credit to me/my github somewhere if you do

OVT_BasePatrolUpgrade also handles despawning the AI if there isnt any players nearby, saving the groups and their positions to be respawned back if a player comes

which is a good idea for performance

[keen marlin]

Awesome @timid light I can see alot of work has gone into it. Would it work on different maps? Or would you need to change the script based on the map used?

[timid light]

its designed to work on any map thats set up the same as the vanilla ones, however so far no modded maps do that

so atm it only works on everon and arland

im adding a way to manually define bases and towns soon

[keen marlin]

Well keep up the awesome work. Very interested in seeing how it goes.

[timid light]

thanks

[halcyon bridge]

query entities by sphere has a limit on the amount of entities it can go over, did you just not hit this limit yet? I guess there's only a bunch of relevant markers

[timid light]

yeh thats what the filter function is for

[halcyon bridge]

roger

[shy lake]

Yes 0.9.8 and 0.9.9 added/changed quite some A.I. stuff.
Most noticable the way of how A.I. react to initial contact.
It has it's pro & cons but so far/for now it's pretty good and add's some diversity to how A.I. react.
The "A.I. Observe" behavior added in 0.9.8 is another pretty nice behavior.
It works toghetter with the Spotting/Perception A.I. feature also introduced in 0.9.8.
By default A.I. perception is 1.
As soon as A.I. is using binoculars the perception factor will be raised to 3.
Higher perception factor = better enemy spotting/detection.
So it was done in a pretty smart way.
Still need's some more work for detail but you can already see the idea behind thouse new A.I. features. 👍

[balmy gorge]

thanks for that concise update -sounds promising

[haughty ivy]

AI need more passive behaviors tbh

This may be a root conflict between my type of environment and mission makers who like static entities they can micromanage for mission purposes but, AI that have passive behaviors on their own are very useful

[shy lake]

What exactly do you mean by "passive behaviors"?

[haughty ivy]

Activities and actions that are done without game master or mission maker involvement. Things like garrisoning buildings, resupplying, refueling, repairing, etc. A reason I liked one of the AI mods in A3 was that as a mission maker its extremely useful and immersive to have AI do these things passively after or even during a firefight. It makes AI squads self sustaining. I also think personally that Arma should have more AI high command implemented into it, but that goes past what the goal for Arma is for the general audience

[marble grail]

Problem with all that is it will eventually contradict orders given by Zeus. You might want them to move but they will want to repair a car or heal someone.
Those are two different concepts, autonomous AI and do-what-told AI like in RTS. I think it would be hard to make those work together.

[haughty ivy]

Well you see, it can work together. A lot better than mods currently for A3 that do it. It could be something like enabling/disabling autonomy as sort of like a Zeus module, or having mission settings

Could also have an implementation like LAMBS where you can force the AI to do something immediately

Im sure modders will eventually get to it but it would be nice to have some native utilities for high command/squad to squad supports

[haughty ivy]

Maybe add a option when a building is right clicked that says "clear the building" or smth

[nova gull]

There's a good reason that for Arma 3 BI programmers took out the ability for AI to lay mines...

[haughty ivy]

I hope they let them in A4!

[nova gull]

Nothing about BI in the past decade has indicated that they (or rather their replacements) have changed their stance on how much autonomy is too much... and as you said, This may be a root conflict between my type of environment and mission makers

[pliant arrow]

I think it is a good idea for AI be able to place mines (or other items), but not be a part of their default behavior.

So if mission makers or AI modders want to add the feature it is possible to do so.

[nova gull]

Whereas Zeek appears to specifically be talking about default behavior

[pliant arrow]

I know, and as you said; there's a reason why it got removed before.

Similar to AI (ab)using 40mm

[nova gull]

Which IMO implies that at the time (I believe 2011, thus predating DayZ and the sea change that that meant for Arma) BI programmers determined that they didn't have the capability to grant a behavior capability while 'gating' it to not be default

[marble grail]

I think it's not a problem just to make character place mine, but it's impossible to compute where it makes sense to place mines autonomously. Where would it make sense from tactical point of view or from strategic point of view is a huge open question. Deploying something like a huge minefield would be some strategic decision, and there is no strategic AI now.

[pliant arrow]

I think I've seen a script in Arma 2 which where the AI would place mines (albeit scripted, not actual AI behavior) when it knew the enemy was in vehicles, and it would place them on roads between them and the enemy.

[marble grail]

now imagine that the AI placing mines must also know that no friendly unit is going to pass through that area, including players, within reasonable time

[pliant arrow]

Similar could be done when the AI would have a retreat behavior, and place AP mines at their current location before moving away from the enemy

[marble grail]

yeah maybe smth like this at most

[pliant arrow]

I agree with that, although since it was fully scripted and only executed on units where it made sense this wasn't really an issue (eg. AI defending an outpost)

[regal terrace]

Picks up phone and dials the number for idap...

[marble grail]

IDAP deploys a Mine-clearing line charge on your location

[lost torrent]

Benevolent IDAP decides the best way to prevent war crimes is to wipe out all humans

[haughty ivy]

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

[halcyon bridge]

where do I find a node that will make the AI equip a grenade?

or equip by slot id

[opal arch]

what about SenD Order_WeaponType. Is seems to have a Grenade weapon type to set there. Havent tried tho.

[halcyon bridge]

yea I'd like to see some suggestion that works because I don't really have the time to figure it out 😦

[shy lake]

This is how i've got it done:

EWeaponType grenadeType = EWeaponType.WT_FRAGGRENADE;

IEntity entity = agent.GetControlledEntity();

ChimeraCharacter character = ChimeraCharacter.Cast(entity);

CharacterControllerComponent characterController = character.GetCharacterController();

SCR_InventoryStorageManagerComponent m_InventoryStorageManager = SCR_InventoryStorageManagerComponent.Cast(characterController.GetInventoryStorageManager());

IEntity grenade = m_InventoryStorageManager.FindNextWeaponOfType(grenadeType);

if (grenade)
{
    BaseWeaponManagerComponent m_WeaponManagerComponent = BaseWeaponManagerComponent.Cast(entity.FindComponent(BaseWeaponManagerComponent));
    
    BaseWeaponComponent weapon = m_WeaponManagerComponent.GetCurrentWeapon();
    
    m_SCR_CharacterInventoryStorageComponent = SCR_CharacterInventoryStorageComponent.Cast(entity.FindComponent(SCR_CharacterInventoryStorageComponent));
    
    m_SCR_CharacterInventoryStorageComponent.UseItem(grenade, ESlotFunction.TYPE_WEAPON);
}

[haughty ivy]

Most AIs in a group are inert during fight with multiple targets What does this mean

Fixed: AI was not correctly deactivating at 1000 m Is it possible to disable this? Can you just not engage AI from 1000+ meters?

[random owl]

A bug when you have bigger group of AIs at one place in fight there is delay for random AI between seeing enemy and start shooting at them. Will be fixed in next minor update.

You can increase "Dynamicsim Lastlod Distance" on AIAgent (group, chimera). 1000 is just default. Changing this can affect performance quite a lot. In future we are planning to extend this system more. Right now deactivate is simples as there is no way how to effectively engage such a distant target.

[haughty ivy]

Is there any near future plan to implement cover seeking behavior and suppressive fire into the AI subroutines? I am not observing this happening right now

[random owl]

covers - yes
suppressive - question is in what exactly do you mean by that. In some sense they are already using suppressive fire mode e.g. on last known position of target when they lost target from perception.

[haughty ivy]

I guess what I mean then is tweaking/improving its usage as right now from my experience they appear to be using less suppressive fire than expected in an engagament, especially MG units. But this is a preference

Is it planned to have the covers system more advanced/improved from A3 in the sense that AI will be more aware and utilize better their cover choices?

And if I could pick at your brain one last time, have the AI developers shown an interest in AI squads utilizing medical evacuation/casualty collection as part of the behavior tree? E.g transporting players/ai to hospital/field medicine without direct intervention of game master/scenario?

[random owl]

So tweaks will depend how it will go together covers and suppression. So no definitive answer here.

Regarding to A3 covers - it will be different. For comparison I'm sorry but you need to wait 😉

Using medical vehicles - We would like to for sure however it will take us time.

[haughty ivy]

Thanks for answering

[random owl]

welcome 🙂

[haughty ivy]

That wink is getting me hyped lol

[calm edge]

The fact that the answer to all 3 was not a flat no, makes me wonder what their cooking up? Must be something special.

[nova gull]

Does this count as 'new micro behaviors'?

Improvements in Group AI logic
We have made significant improvements to the Group AI perception and fireteam management.

• Firstly, Group AI perception has been enhanced, allowing the AI to gather information about known enemies that are in close proximity to each other. This improvement enables the AI to treat these enemies as a single cluster of targets, leading to more coordinated and effective responses.

• Secondly, we have refactored the Group AI fireteam management. As a result, Group AI can now execute specific activities for individual fireteams. For instance, one fireteam can be assigned to investigate the last known enemy position, while another fireteam remains in a holding position. This enhanced fireteam management allows for more tactical and dynamic decision-making, making AI behavior more realistic and responsive to changing battlefield conditions.
  https://reforger.armaplatform.com/news/dev-report-18

[haughty ivy]

Group AI can now execute specific activities for individual fireteams. For instance, one fireteam can be assigned to investigate the last known enemy position, while another fireteam remains in a holding position. This enhanced fireteam management allows for more tactical and dynamic decision-making, making AI behavior more realistic and responsive to changing battlefield conditions.

To any AI developers in the chat, will modders be able to add additional fireteam behaviors?

• Does this effectively mean that the smallest unit element of Reforger is the "fireteam" within a squad?

[nova gull]

If I'm reading it correctly the quote means that at minimum the AI can do base of fire, if not bounding overwatch, and that furthermore Reforger AI didn't previously have echelons (akin to A2/A3's color-coded Teams within the group) until now

[haughty ivy]

🤔 could A3's AI even utilize echelons for orders, I always thought they did stuff as a whole most of the time

other than for healing/resupplying

I'm going to test this again, I haven't observed these behaviors happening

[balmy gorge]

Is this in current build or experimental build? Havent had it installed since few weeks after release

[nova gull]

Are you asking Zeek about not seeing said AI behaviors?

[balmy gorge]

Sorry I meant that AI update in general?

[nova gull]

Oh yeah the quotes are about current build

[balmy gorge]

Ah ok thanks

[atomic magnet]

From my understanding, the AI 'have the capability' to do stuffs like overwatch/base of fire things. But the current implementation (that I can actually see) is that just like the text describe. One team hold position, the other goes to investigate. That is all. I can't remember what they do after they do the investigating part, because they usually got wiped, or I got wiped. The holding team does not reinforce (I think) or reinvestigate when the investigating team got wiped out. Have to test again thoroughly... never had the thought to investigate more

But I believe they(BI) have planted a sound base to start things and expand things further

[haughty ivy]

Your correct, the other team doesn't reinforce, they only come when aggrod

[boreal quiver]

My AI just aims at other characters but doesn't shoot (Custom faction, US works). I'm sure its a single checkbox somewhere but I don't remember how to fix that.

[wise pebble]

I see AI now actually patrols around Defend waypoints instead of just standing and waiting until someone attacks. They even like to swim around Defend waypoints!

[shy lake]

Somehow A.I. initial aim position seems a bit off.
It's hard to see in vanilla cuz they always use ADS and always have their weapon raised.
However i use to make them sprint from one position to another lower weapon and disable ADS while sprinting.
As soon as they reach their new move position their initial aim position is somewhere in the sky.
In general since 0.9.9 i can see a lot of A.I. looking into the sky for couple seconds for whatever reason during combat.

[regal terrace]

Any chance you would know where to look to get the AI not to fire upon unarmed characters?

[haughty ivy]

Its quite off by 3 meters when enemies have high positions

[shy lake]

Well i'm using:

SCR_AICombatComponent m_SCR_AICombatComponent = SCR_AICombatComponent.Cast(m_Entity.FindComponent(SCR_AICombatComponent));

BaseTarget baseTarget = m_SCR_AICombatComponent.GetCurrentTarget();

if (baseTarget.IsDisarmed())
    Print("Disarmed");

As far as i can tell unconscious A.I. will automatically return "IsDisarmed() = true" what i use it for.
Not quite sure if this includes A.I. in terms of "has no weapons" disarmed as well? I have to test.

To get it work it would need a "Scripted Decorator" in the "Attack_Default.bt" where A.I. get the fire command from and check the node somewhere before A.I. will execute the "Fire" node.

[regal terrace]

This seemed to work somewhat for me, but now the unarmed ai retreats. (Im trying to do unarmed civs) ```c
// Detect if player is armed
ChimeraCharacter player = ChimeraCharacter.Cast(target);
if(player){
CharacterControllerComponent controller = player.GetCharacterController();
if (!controller) return;
BaseWeaponManagerComponent weaponManager = controller.GetWeaponManagerComponent();
if (!weaponManager) return;
BaseWeaponComponent weaponOrSlot = SCR_WeaponLib.GetCurrentWeaponComponent(weaponManager);
if (!weaponOrSlot) return;
IEntity weaponEntity;
WeaponSlotComponent slot = WeaponSlotComponent.Cast(weaponOrSlot);
if (slot) weaponEntity = slot.GetWeaponEntity();
else weaponEntity = weaponOrSlot.GetOwner();
if (!weaponEntity) return;
}

In: ```c
[BaseContainerProps()]
class SCR_AITargetReaction_Enemy : SCR_AITargetReactionBase
{
override void PerformReaction(notnull SCR_AIUtilityComponent utility, notnull SCR_AIThreatSystem threatSystem, BaseTarget baseTarget, vector lastSeenPosition)

yours looks way more to the point lol

[shy lake]

What do you like the unarmed civs to do?
Just stand there?

[regal terrace]

stay in the town yeah, not run for the hills. I want to spawn in unarmed civs of the same faction so if players shoot civs, they get negative points for killing friendlies

wandering around town would be nice

[shy lake]

What about the "SCR_AITargetReaction_RetreatFromEnemy" class right below the "SCR_AITargetReaction_Enemy" class?
If you have something in your civ class to identify them you could use it to prevent them from running the "Retreat" behavior?

[regal terrace]

That sounds promising! Ill have a look! 🙂

I kinda like what it makes the enemy do, they maneuver around but they dont shoot at them, so they are moving when the players come into town and see them, not just standing around.

[shy lake]

The "Retreat" behavior?
Yes i think it would be pretty okay to have unarmed civs move away from any kind of possible danger.

[regal terrace]

I think its an attack behavior, but the script returns so they cant PerformReaction() or 'open fire.'

so ussr sees us civ but cant shoot because of script, but ussr ai still run around like theyre yelling at the civs telling them what to do.

could even flip it into a hostage rescue scenario, attach a "rescue" action to ai

I assume they would set a priority to armed targets they see

back to script editor im just talkin out loud now lol

[shy lake]

Well the "SCR_AITargetReaction_Enemy" already use "baseTarget" so you could simply start by checking the "if (baseTarget.IsDisarmed()) return;" thing.
Or even better if you have something in your civ class to check it by script use this instead.

[regal terrace]

SCR_AmbientPatrolSpawnPointComponent: how do you link a group type (SCR_EGroupType) to an SCR_AIGroup? Im not seeing where those enums are connected to the FIA group prefabs. 🤔

am I missing it in a config somewhere?

[opal arch]

this what you mean?

[regal terrace]

That looks like it! Thank you! 🙂

[regal terrace]

Ok its working nice, not retreating, but now how do I get them to stop yelling "Negative!"

[regal terrace]

SCR_AITalk is the answer to that!

[shy lake]

@AIDevs
PLZ can we have "SCR_AIUtilityComponent.EvaluateBehavior().EvaluateActions()" result "AIActionBase selectedAction;" defined as ref in "SCR_AIUtilityComponent.c"?
Right now i have to mess/duplicate the whole script to make it work like this and i rly can use said evaluate result instead of running the whole evaluat action thing in my own AITaskScripted node.
Guess it can be quite expensive running it on each AIAgent over and over again.
Maybee there is a reason to not expose it? But so far i could not think of any.
Would make this specific part a little bit more easy for me to mess with. 🫂 +

[balmy gorge]

Check out the AI covering corners in Ravenfield -would love to see this production for this series' CQB (2nd gif down) https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/636480/view/3649655808287407620?l=english

[nova gull]

Dangnabit... yet another thing not in Arma Reforger:

You can now stand on top of vehicles without being rammed (Basically allowing you to ride on top of tanks and stuff lol). This works up to a speed threshold of 20 m/s

[opal scaffold]

how do you get a group of units to cycle through a series of waypoints?

[shy lake]

Add all your waypoints to a "Cycle Waypoint" and add the "Cycle Waypoint" to given A.I. group under "Static Waypoints".

[opal scaffold]

AIWaypoint_Cycle.et? It doesn't work. The only waypoints i have been able to get to work are the ones in Prefabseditable/Atuo/AI/Waypoints

[shy lake]

Based on your screenshot:
Don't make the waypoints part/child of the A.I. group.
Create a new layer and put all the waypoints inside it p1 - p7 the cycle waypoint as well so they are all in their own layer.
Add the waypoints p1 - p7 to the cycle waypoint in "Cycle Waypoints" field only use their names p1 - p7. ( yes AIWaypointCycle_Waypoint.et )
Now add the cycle waypint to given group by using "Static Waypoints" field make sure your cycle waypoint has a name as well like for example c1.
Vanilla waypoint names does not work as far as i can remember.

There is a pretty good video tutorial for mission making incl. waypoint usage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNL_oFhlmLU&t=1823s

[opal scaffold]

are you sure this video is up to date? I have done what you describe, and seen that video multiple times. I'm pretty sure waypoints don't work like that anymore..?

[vale burrow]

it gonna work, but its different when you use scenario framework where you create area with layers with tasks and object/squads to spawn when player trigger area 😉

[haughty ivy]

AI don't currently have the capability to clear mine fields, do they?

[cosmic apex]

Can't even drive over those...

[haughty ivy]

I guess that would technically clear it 😂

[shy lake]

Yes it definitely still works like this.
I use this way since day one and all my missions where i use it are still working.
Just make sure to rename the waypoints don't use the vanilla names cuz they don't work.

Maybe you are missing something else like a component?
What map are you using?

[shy lake]

I have a question about a behavior tree node behavior please.
It's about the "RUNNING" node state and what it does exactly.
From how i understand it:
Using "RUNNING" will return "RUNNING" to the "ROOT" and now the condition of the node which returned "RUNNING" will be checked every tick.
Now i have some none time sensitive parts in my behavior trees which are okay to be checked every couple seconds only.
Would i benefit in terms of performance to use "Selector" > "Idle" instead of "RUNNING" to check the condition?
Example of the two different way's i'm asking about.

The behavior tree of the picture has no real working logic.
Just imagine the bool "doStuff" is false by default and will be set to true at some point in time. 😇

[stone sapphire]

Idle also uses Running state to .. idle. So you doing it, has basically same effect and would be more efficient thanks to having less nodes in the tree

[shy lake]

Nice!
Many thanks for clarification. 👍

[boreal quiver]

How can I set the walking speed via Script and the behavior file? There are these move speed nodes but never done any AI modding

[flat drum]

Hello, how to set up pathfinding for AI on custom map? It seems they do not recognise any buildings and fences, SCR_AIWorld installed on map

[timid light]

you need a navmesh

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Navmesh_Tutorial

[flat drum]

Thx ill try.
Its work

[opal arch]

Anybody know how to make a character perform a melee atack through script. Cant seems to figure it out.

[shy lake]

I think melee action is restricted to a behavior tree task node.

[opal arch]

Iwas trying to get 2 friendlies to kill eachother. But through nodes the seem to realise when its friendly and wont do it.

[shy lake]

Yes that's possible.
If i remember right the "melee" node is native code so you can only test/guess what it does.

[opal arch]

i only see a Decorator for using melee, no "Execute Melee" node.

[shy lake]

It's in "Fire_Melee.bt" and executed by "Request Action" task node.

In class "CharacterControllerComponent" are some methodes related to melee like: SetMeleeAttack(bool val);
Maybee it needs additional stuff like select melee weapon and raise weapon first to work.

[opal arch]

Nice, i see it. Thanks alot 🙇‍♂️

[shy lake]

It seem's by using the new map layer from current experimental 0.9.9.83 build A.I. characters ( individual A.I. without group ) don't work anymore.
I know they are most likely not used a lot or not at all however i always try to make my stuff work with both A.I. groups and A.I. characters just in case they are used by someone.
Just to let you guy's know.

[random owl]

Btw. we checked this quickly as it "should work" but isn't a main use case for us. By default has those prefabs on AIControlComponent Enabled set to false. If you turn it on there it works, they start reacting.

[shy lake]

Yes i've checked the "AIControlComponent" and the A.I. of the character is set to enabled.
Still i never see them using "Attack" behavior while using the new map layer.
Maybe i miss/messed up something i'm not aware of...
Anyways thank's for testing and feedback. 👍

[random owl]

Oh I realized what could be an issue. In deed this could be broken. Sorry for that. I wasn't noticing "new map layer" could be the problem. And no issue isn't on your side.

[shy lake]

Good to hear. 👍
Will save me some time messing with it even if i already kinda gave up on fixing it.

[scenic wasp]

Is there a way to disable parts of the ai? Im looking for something like the disableAi "PATH"command in A3 which prevents the AI from running away. All other parts should still be running. Could you give me a pointer in the right direction? Im comfortable with A3, but new to Enfusion.

[shy lake]

There is a methode in the "CharacterControleComponent" to disable movement but it will make A.I. to behave somewhat wierd.
Also if i remember right there is a check box called "Enable Movement" but i'm not sure if it's already implemented.

[shy lake]

Has there been something changed with the way of how "SCR_AIDangerReaction_ProjectileHit" is triggered?
To me it seems pretty random now sometimes it does trigger but very often it doesnt.
Like if there was a random delay added to safe performance by not triggering every time?

[random owl]

@shy lake nope everything should be the same as before. At least not intentionally 😄

[shy lake]

Well in idle they always react properly to each nearby projectile hit.
However in combat is where they react to 3-5 out of 10 times.
Hmm... Not a big thing was just wondering.
Thx for answering. 👍

[halcyon bridge]

how's the AI driving coming along guys

[random owl]

I think it's still the same. What you observe is aggregation of danger events of same type. AIDangerEvent has GetCount how many times it was triggered in-between reading of danger event.

@halcyon bridge not sure how how it's about public roadmap currently. I guess there should be some communication of it by official channels. I can only say we are on it 😄

[sinful palm]

It's early access, I want the features unfinished even if they are broken!

[quasi meadow]

but then people complain that they are broken 😭

[supple jacinth]

October.

[halcyon bridge]

honestly if I knew it's going to take this long last year I maybe would have bothered to further develop and release this little project

buuuut I think I was thinking that AI driving is "just around the corner" so I kinda stopped working on it, and no time for it now

[supple jacinth]

Literally this seems better than bohemia work 🤑. Seriously!!!!!

[halcyon bridge]

I don't think so, I'm sure even the WIP system they have is much better than my little experiment

[supple jacinth]

I hope arma reforger don't end like arma 3 that the vehicles are stuck in structures constantly....💀

[halcyon bridge]

driving over bridges was hard for a3 ai

[last canopy]

walking over bridges was hard for A3 Ai even

[opal flame]

I was very impressed when the AI would run acrross the bridge on Worthy Islands mod for reforger

[halcyon bridge]

navmesh should take care of it, I wonder why it didn't for vehicles in a3

maybe vehicles in a3 didnt use navmesh?

[atomic magnet]

maybe the terrain nav-mesh and the object(bridge) navmesh didn't 'connect' properly? so the AI got confused, like ants losing their trail when you swipe their path with your finger

[halcyon bridge]

I don't mean just the long bridge on tanoa there were also some small "bridges" they couldn't drive over -- seems like every time they were asked to drive over something that isn't strictly terrain surface they couldn't do it

[sinful palm]

I love it when AI can choose the best vehicle for the job. e.g. in Crysis some soldiers might chase you by car to a dock with two boats; if you jump in one boat the soldiers will take the other to follow you.

[dreamy cloak]

ARMA 3 navmesh, heh 🙂 Problem with bridges is that they are not real roads...

[balmy gorge]

Thats asking alot from Arma AI - last I checked AI couldnt even dismount a turret if another AI or player got point blank range to him

[shy lake]

Have to say i'm still really impressed by all the vanilla A.I. features and how well they work..
A.I. healing ( Self-heal/Medic-heal/Heal-wait ) behaviors are a bit messed up sometimes but i can see they are really hard to do in a perfect order due to many other stuff going on and prioritize them properly will need a lot more work.
Provide ammo feature is really fun maybe in the future there will be a ammo serach feature where A.I. is able to search and resupply on dead soldiers.
Very often there are A.I. standing in a pile of dead bodys which are still fully stacked with magazines but they retreat due to out of ammo.

[shy lake]

Is there a way to modify "SCR_ChimeraAIAgentFull.et > Danger Event Range" value by script?

[shy lake]

Is there some documentation about the new Cluster system somewhere?
I try to get into it but so far i'm not able to fully control it.
I can modify it by changing the cluster state to LOST or by changing the "m_fTimeMax" value but somehow i can not fully cancel/terminate a cluster.
Like the investigation cluster for example.
If i set the state to LOST A.I. will stop investigating but its still looping in the background for quite some time.
Am i even able to terminate a specific cluster or is it not part of the functionality at all?

[haughty ivy]

Whenever you think anything is around the corner, it’s not lol

Thus the life of AI dev

[balmy gorge]

I thought when i saw the "Major Update" that we'd finally be getting some real meat on the bones type stuff like..oh I dont l know..Ai that can drive and that you can order around to make a proper simple mission. But lo and behold it was Birds, their various flying patterns and behaviors, I believe some insect FSM was involved as well as the mating habits of spores, molds and other general fungi. Now, was that an African or European Swallow i spotted just there...

[timid light]

Were they unladen? Did you catch their airspeed velocity at all?

You have to know these things when you're king

[wise pebble]

From the roadmap:

AI units will be able to drive all land vehicles on roads.
Does this imply AI won't be able to drive off roads?

[knotty umbra]

[haughty ivy]

[quasi meadow]

probably an initial goal to first do roads, then add complexity later on

[coral timber]

That’s what they tell young people in driving schools: Stay on the road.

[random owl]

Please keep calm and don't panic guys 🙂
Basically what I can say "we are working on driving in general" but that could contain really wild ideas if unbounded. This specifically is promised. Good enough?

[halcyon bridge]

would be a huge milestone to get some form of driving, we've been playing against footsoldiers only for more than a year now

[nova gull]

And really wild ideas if unbounded is both part of why Arma is so screwy and why it's so good 😂

[boreal quiver]

Hi, new to AI modding, why does my AI not move to me? It finds my entity, sets the Target but doesn't move
And why do I have to make a new variable for Target and not just connect the 2 nodes directly?

[halcyon bridge]

I wonder if this will end up spamming the move to commands often enough for the character to appear not to do anything, try setting this up in a sequence instead of parallel and add some kind of idle/sleep as the last node to see if it changes anything?

[boreal quiver]

It works with the Pick Target node instead of the Find Entity

[halcyon bridge]

ooook

[shy lake]

Well just a little feedback on experimental 1.0.0.x A.I. after messing with them for couple days.
Heal-Self/Medic Heal is pretty good now although i think threat level 0.02 to use them is pretty low.
But still much better than befor. 👍
A.I. group formation position offset has been fixed! Yaaay! 🙀 🫂 🥳
Now i see A.I. getting stuck on objects while moving again.
Not as bad as it was last year but its quite noticable.
Sometimes they walk in place like they don't move but they do the walk/move animation.
In general A.I. movement in uneven terrain trees/stones/rocks is somewhat buggy now.
Behavior Tree Editor!
Oh boy tap saving/restoring is such a good thing!
Why is it even a option?
GRID and SNAP TO GRID.
I was so excited to finally have perfectly straight node lines everything perfectly ordere so i can finally look at my behavior trees with proud.
Well somehow using the snap to grid make my behavior trees look even worse.
No straight lines for me... 😭
Maybe if i could adjust the grid size i would be able to get it right?
Hmm... Anyways good job as usual! Keep it up.

[outer furnace]

@shy lake if you want the nodes to have straight lines from top to bottom, it might help you to select multiple nodes, rightclick and align vertical

[haughty ivy]

Could you, please, share a pic of the behavior trees on grid, that look "even worse"? We can certainly improve the grid alignment, that may be malfunctioning due to the different sizes of different nodes...

[haughty ivy]

Thanks for your feedback! Could you please tell when did this happen?

i see A.I. getting stuck on objects while moving again.

[halcyon bridge]

when I activate AI of a player character (that I'm possessing) they seem to be doing AI things except firing their weapon, what controls this? they aim at enemies fine just never fire

nvm probably not going to go deeper into this since there's a 40% chance workbench crashes when AI is enabled

unless anyone knows a "safe" way to enable AI control for a character controlled by a player (without kicking out the player)

[random owl]

@halcyon bridge something like that isn't supported

[halcyon bridge]

ah dang, it kinda working gave me hope

[wise pebble]

In the SCR_AIWorld_Eden prefab, the Soldiers NavmeshComponent has an empty NavmeshFilesConfig.
That may because there's both a GM_Eden and a CTI_Campaign_Eden navmesh, but I'd still recommend setting that to GM_Eden to avoid confusion, as you would expect such a prefab to already be configured.

Same goes for Arland.

[halcyon bridge]

how do the weapon fired and projectile hit actions detect that the event happened?

[hidden matrix]

HitRegistrationEntity?

[haughty ivy]

Where do you find the "Tags" of a smart action?

[opal arch]

In the smart action itself. There is a Smart action component or smart action sentinel component on some prefabs, this is where they hold their behavior tree and their tags.

[shy lake]

Thanks this helps somewhat.

@haughty ivy
Well guess i'm looking for something that simply can't be done due to like you already said different size of nodes and stuff.
I was trying to not only get the nodes "Tasks & Decorators" in a straight line but also their leaves ( variables/conditionals ) connected to them.
Somehow i dislike the "Spaghetti" connectors of the leaves but i guess that's simply the way it is.
For example i really liked the Arma 3 FSM editor and how you were able to create perfectly looking and ordered .FSMs.
But in the FSM editor everything had the same size and there were no such things as leaves.

Anyways... About the A.I. stuck thing:
I've noticed it mainly whenever A.I. is moving close to/on top of a "Granite Cluster".
But as far as i can tell the "Granite Cluster" is not part of the Navmesh.
Meaning it will create a hole in the Navmesh which for example can be used to detect a cover object.
So whenever A.I. is moving over said clusters they may will lose their Navmesh which will make them look stuck/confused for a second.

But maybe its caused by my Arland map not working properly.
I made a customized Arland map by using "Arland Empty" copy/past everything from "Arland Full" to it and using the "SCR_AIWorld_Arland" with it.
So it should be a 1 to 1 copy of the full vanilla Arland.
However my A.I. is unable to jump/climb over fences even tho the jump/climb indicators are on the Navmesh.

Like i've said just some tiny details i've seen which pretty much most of the time will never be noticed by any usual player.

[halcyon bridge]

does the Pick Target node select closest target or what?

[halcyon bridge]

it seems when I exit play mode the behavior editor is still stuck in debug mode? how do I exit debug mode?

[outer furnace]

Just close the tab

[halcyon bridge]

sometimes I have to restart Workbench to get a new variable to show up in the node view of behavior editor

also I can't figure out why SCR_AI Get Base Target Properties is returning Fail result as the BaseTarget provided to it is assigned

ah it seems it's assigned but null

so SCR_AI Get Target seems to be returning null when I am standing in front of the soldier, I guess this is not the way to obtain a target

now Workbench crashes when I press play, I'll check back in after the 1.0 update

[viscid yew]

So, mb ask here... Anyone know hot to disable simulation disabling of AIs if they are too far (~1km) from player?

[halcyon bridge]

in exp pressing toggle breakpoint crashes workbench with no crash reporter (this was specifically in the run from danger _position behavior when I pressed breakpoint over the Take Cover node)

[rotund ibex]

I'm trying to understand the AI logic. I have a navmesh (lowres) in use in Eden. I spawn AI group and give them a waypoint to go to. They start to advance in a straight line and when they meet a wall (rock/smth/..), the soldier stops moving and can not find it's way around it. Or open doors or .. Is this normal behaviour or am I missing smth? Using exp.

[rotund ibex]

Just curious: Why would you like to do that?

[viscid yew]

High Command/Warlords-like mission from previous Armas

few players, more AIs, CTI-like gameplay

[rotund ibex]

Maybe the only way is to create virtual groups that virtually move on the map. Only in the case when player is close enough, they are spawned and become real AIs.

But if you have two large virtual armies fighting far away, it's like throwing dice and decide who dies and who lives.

[viscid yew]

this will requires much more work, create algorithms for pathfinding, enemy detections and etc

such algorithms that will not differ much from “online” calculations

[shy lake]

You can try to change LOD ( level of detail ) in the "SCR_ChimeraAIAgentFull" prefab or whatever it is called.

[viscid yew]

holy shit, thx

it's works

[shy lake]

LowRes navmesh is minor.
Make sure to use the "Soldier" ( GM_Eden ) navmesh.
LowRes is mainly for mp.
There is a "SCR_AIWorld_Eden" prefab which should already have everything pre-configured.
However i have problems with A.I. not jumping over fences as well when using the "SCR_AIWorld_Arland" prefab.
Just give it a go.

[shy lake]

Its just broken.
I was using/testing it in pretty much every 1.0.0.x experimental version but always CTD.

[rotund ibex]

Thanks! That worked. I did try the "SCR_AIWorld_Eden" prefab yesterday. Your guide to add the GM_Eden file did the trick. My AI found their brains.

[shy lake]

I think there is a problem with "RunBT" and "InVariable".
I did a lot of tests but for some reason when i create a variable esp. position and then use the "RunBT" with the position variable as "InVariable/PORT IN" for some reason inside of the executed "RunBT" im unable to modify/change the "InVariable".
This is something i'm doing since ages and i never had this problem.
I've tryed/tested pretty much everything i can think of but it keeps behaving like this.

[halcyon bridge]

I have a lot of respect for you and the dev team using the behavior editor, you guys have way more patience than me

[shy lake]

Oh thanks.
Well yeah A.I. is the only thing i'm rly interested in and where i can spend a damn lot of time with.
But yes Reforger/Enfusion and the tools/updates bugs/crashes can be a HUUUUGE pain!
Can't tell how often i already was like i'm done with this 🤬 due to bug sand crashes.
But for some reason the next day i go back to it and try to solve it.

[serene summit]

Love-hate relationship

[halcyon bridge]

@shy lake I put that danger reaction into the projectile hit reaction and they never seek cover

SCR_AIMoveFromDangerBehavior

so this should be using "{D12937CF422B639B}AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Soldier/MoveFromDanger_Position.bt"

buuuuuut they never seek cover, not once

[shy lake]

In vanilla the cover search range is very small.
Its from the agent origin/position 9 meter toward his facing direction.
Meaning in vanilla A.I. will only search for cover right in front of them within a distance of 9 meters.
Yes i use the "SCR_AIMoveFromDangerBehavior" in combination with "Danger > ProjectileHit" as well.
I can make you a example "SCR_AIMoveFromDanger.bt" with looping cover search.

[halcyon bridge]

does the cover seeking behavior include GM placed entities or is it only looking for objects that are native to the world? if it looks for holes in the navmesh I guess anything GM placed doesnt qualify

[shy lake]

How you call the behavior tree in ProjectileHit?
Utility AddBehavior?

[halcyon bridge]

yea

just replaced the one that was there

[shy lake]

k

[shy lake]

It does.
As soon as GM place something it will automatically do a navmesh refresh.

[halcyon bridge]

is this for compositions only or any item like a container?

[shy lake]

Everything.

[halcyon bridge]

ok interesting then I wonder what I messed up as they just ran away instead of hiding

[shy lake]

Every time you place a object it will rebuild the navmesh.

I will make you something to test. 😉

[balmy gorge]

Thats strange -why do they only consider whats in front of them? Can they at least turn their heads to quickly scan and then make a determination or is it just locked to one direction?

[shy lake]

Its orientation is always based on the A.I. facing direction like a camera attached to the head and the fov of the camera is where they are searching for cover.

[balmy gorge]

So if their head is turned to the side -then that would still come into effect? I remember back in good old fashion OFP days the Bots would have their necks contorted at ridiculous angles if they suspected activeity to their periphery. I absolutely loved it despite its jankiness because it felt like the AI was really looking for you

[shy lake]

Its not the A.I. looking direction but the direction A.I. is orientatet like the body direction.
This is a good example:
The area of the blue sensor moving with the A.I. would be the area where they are searching for cover.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=znZXmmyBF-o&pp=ygUGYWkgZm92

The size and field of the sensor is pretty much exactly what A.I. in vanilla is using to search for cover.

[balmy gorge]

Pretty neat demo but that lacks head movement at all -its head is just attached straight ahead and is not independent at all. In Arma we always had eyePos and you could run a raycast to wherever the eyes are not just overall orientation. Seems dumbed down to me to not allow the AI to store quick information by glancing left/right especially if its not fully aware of a threat/detect cover but needs to verify

[shy lake]

In SCR_AIGroupTargetClusterProcessor.c i get Reason: NULL pointer to instance with AllocateMoreFireteams.

void AllocateMoreFireteams(SCR_AITargetClusterState s, notnull TFireteamLockRefArray inOutFtLocksMain, notnull TFireteamLockRefArray ftLocksAux)
{
    // We slightly overestimate amount of enemies to allocate even more people
    float fEnemies = 1.3 * (float)s.m_iCountDetected + 1.3*s.m_iCountIdentified + 1.3*s.m_iCountLost + 0.5*s.m_iCountDestroyed;
    
    int nEnemies = Math.Ceil(fEnemies);
    
    // Count soldiers from what we have so far
    int nSoldiersAllocated = 0;
    foreach (SCR_AIGroupFireteamLock ftLock : inOutFtLocksMain)
        nSoldiersAllocated += ftLock.GetFireteam().GetMemberCount();
    foreach (SCR_AIGroupFireteamLock ftLock : ftLocksAux)
        nSoldiersAllocated += ftLock.GetFireteam().GetMemberCount();
    
    // Allocate fireteams
    array<SCR_AIGroupFireteam> freeFireteams = {};
    m_Utility.m_FireteamMgr.GetFreeFireteams(freeFireteams);
    while (nSoldiersAllocated < nEnemies && !freeFireteams.IsEmpty())
    {
        SCR_AIGroupFireteam newFireteam = freeFireteams[0];
        SCR_AIGroupFireteamLock newFtLock = newFireteam.TryLock();
        inOutFtLocksMain.Insert(newFtLock);
        freeFireteams.Remove(0);
        
        nSoldiersAllocated += newFireteam.GetMemberCount();
    }
}

I debugged it and ftLocksAux is {NULL}.

foreach (SCR_AIGroupFireteamLock ftLock : ftLocksAux)
    nSoldiersAllocated += ftLock.GetFireteam().GetMemberCount();

So maybe this foreach could need a NULL check?

Looks like inOutFtLocksMain has NULL as well.

foreach (SCR_AIGroupFireteamLock ftLock : inOutFtLocksMain)
        nSoldiersAllocated += ftLock.GetFireteam().GetMemberCount();

So NULL check needed for both foreach i guess?

[shy lake]

The video esp. first 10 sec. are just to show you how/within which area A.I. is searching for cover.
Right now in Reforger cover seach is made by using the overall orientation not head movement/look direction.
Guess this will change/get improved at some point.

[balmy gorge]

Yes hopefully. Ive always wished theyd mark out things of interest to AI like doors and windows as thats normally where threats would emerge in urban CQB. The other thing is last I checked in Arma an AI would have the exact chance of spotting an enemy anywhere in its vision cone -meaning a somewhat "hidden" AI at its 90 degree periphery was just as visible as an enemy dead center ahead. Thats why people always felt like the AI feel like terminators or aimbots because they didnt incorporate these types of perception nuance. Heres the AI update for the Tac shooter Ready or not -now obviously I dont expect Arma to have that level of AI CQB awareness but its a nice goal. https://youtu.be/GywHFO7A0Vc?si=DH0cJvqjeL3GKcjz

[merry blade]

so euh my ai wont shoot eachtother or me anymore ...

[shy lake]

Anymore? They did bevor?
Check if you have PerceptionManager in your world.

[merry blade]

my ai has worked till 1.0

and now they just ignore everyone

i got everything that should make them work but they dont do nothing

they full on ignore me

[shy lake]

Hmm... In terms of A.I. setup there has nothing been changed.
SCR_AIWorld and PerceptionManager are the only things you need for A.I. to work.

[merry blade]

it worked fine till the update

and non of the ai works anymore :/

[shy lake]

You must be doing something wrong.
You able to make a screenshot of the map setup esp. the hierarchy window in World Editor?

What map is this?

[merry blade]

this is what i get with SCR

asoon as i load the scr it crashes aswel

they 100% changed something in it

[shy lake]

I get this too sometimes.
It just tells you that there is already a SCR_AIWorld present in the world.
But it should not crash.
The only thing i can think of A.I. ignoring enemies is missing Perception manager.

[merry blade]

it worked fine and i have not changed a single thing

[shy lake]

They changed the layer setup a while ago.
Maybe your A.I. stuff AIWorld and Perception is in the wrong layer?

[merry blade]

everyting worked till 1.0...

[stable wagon]

do you even check what ATiM is writing or do you just say IT WORKED TILL 1.0

[merry blade]

i have not changed anything in my files simple as that

]and he asked me about the files i answered

i have the files

i have it setup

[shy lake]

Is this your own map or from workshop?
Can i download it?

[stable wagon]

when u think they have changed something i would check every setting then and maybe if you used a different Agemttemplate then there might be a change. i know that they updated the Behavior Editor

[merry blade]

own map and no its not updated on the workshop yet

[shy lake]

Its pretty hard to tell there are so many layers...
Yes i too guess you re-check everything.
If they changed something it should automatically apply to your prefabs.
Sorry i don't know a solution beside what i told you right now.

[merry blade]

they see me but just dont shoot

and it takes a while before they even do

[supple jacinth]

Sometimes the ai don't shoot because is detected like at unarmed state so they just watching you but not attack you maybe it can be the problem or not.

[shy lake]

Well thing is each game has A.I. which is specific to their needs.
Im not familar with Ready or Not but i guess its all about CQB.
So yeah dev's took a deep dive into this very kind of gameplay to make their A.I. as good as possible in CQB.
Arma is everything at the same time + A.I. can/will drive vehicles which i doubt A.I. in Ready or Not can.
I think thats the hardest part of Arma A.I. to make them behave the right way in every situation based on their environment.
Hope/Guess they will reintroduce the A.I. peeking around corners which would already help somewhat.

[balmy gorge]

Also glad your still in the game for betterment of AI Snake, im too lazy to try an re-learn all this after years of SQf. You ever thought about joining their Dev team? Did they hire Leopard?

[balmy gorge]

Oh no I agree -Arma will never be a super robust CQB and doesnt aim to be. But I think we can all agree on the parts that could and should be reasonably addressed -at the very least give them distinct Urban behaviours that differ from 300m open air combat in a field or in the woods. Also I watched the development of RoN's AI from years ago and they started from the ground up with how the AI would interact with all aspects of the level design and it was made modular so that even new maps would incorporate that. Level design and AI were never well integrated if at all in many Arma maps

[pearl kindle]

hope I'm not hijacking discussion. A lot of my users on my PVE server are saying that AI don't have enough "strength" to fight against. Any idea how to improve this, potentially making them a bit more difficult to fight against?

[stable wagon]

you can try to set the AI Skill Default in SCR_AICombatCoponent from REGULAR to something higer

[boreal quiver]

Anyone know how hearing works with nodes? My AI sees me but doesnt hear me if im behind them

[pearl kindle]

Thanks :)

Could someone also explain "Dynamicsim Lastlod Distance" to me? Having a hard time understanding this one.

I'm assuming it disables AI after a certain distance, or what does it do? Would like to disable AI if outside of a certain range to save on perfomance.

[shy lake]

I don't think they react to something besides weapon fire.
Not 100% sure but at least i did not see anything related to it.

@pearl kindle In "SCR_ChimeraAIAgentFull" prefab are multiple LODs defined.
Guess the "Dynamicsim Lastlod Distance" is used to define distance to the last LOD defined in "SCR_ChimeraAIAgentFull" prefab.
For performance AIAgent sim you can tweak LOD values of "SCR_ChimeraAIAgentFull" prefab.

[boreal quiver]

Yeah you are right, there is no direct hearing node. But looks like the Pick Target Node only include direct sight not hearing. The Find Target to look at includes hearing

[shy lake]

Oh it does? Nice.
Its used in Soldier.bt right?
I will check it later. 👍

[rotund ibex]

I wanted to play around with the CRX A.I. mod. Just checking that should the one from Workshop work? I get a compilation error on some enum-thing.

Ah, I may have a pre 1.0 version on my machine (=won't work) and no new one has been published yet.

[rotund ibex]

Hmm.. Using exp tools. I create two move waypoints wp1 and wp2. I create a wpcycle waypoint and add wp1 and wp2 in the Cycle waypoints. Rerun counter is -1 (infinite). I assign the wpcycle to a fireteam (one static waypoint). After hitting run, the AIs go from wp1 to wp2 and then stop. The cycle should make them go wp1-wp2-wp1-wp2-... What am I doing wrong?

[shy lake]

Did you "rename" the waypoints to wp1 and wp2?
Besides this it sounds right to me.

[shy lake]

You assume DETECTED means they react to sound?
I don't think so cuz when you shoot in the air and they react to the weapon sound without seeing you their target state is UNKNOWN.

I think DETECTED is a pre/lower state of IDENTIFIED.

But i'm not 100% sure about it.

[shy lake]

Did you rename the cycle waypoint as well?
Like for example cwp1?
The default waypoint names are just placeholder ( empty strings ).
You have to rename all of them to get it work.

[rotund ibex]

Yes, I have renamed everything. Added a wp3. They stop at wp3. Then tried to add wp1 to the cycle like this wp1-wp2-wp3-wp1 -> stop at wp3. Following in GM, they seem to 'pick up' the blue wp's.

[drifting carbon]

Look at the locked layers. I had this error myself because in the default locked layers of the base map there was already an AI world. In that case in theory you don’t need to place another one

[rotund ibex]

@shy lake MyBad or bug .. dunno. I had picked the editable prefab E_AIWaypoint_Move.et . Changing them to AIWaypoint_Move.et works. Now they run in circles.

[merry blade]

did they add somethign to the ai to always clip to the ground ?

my ai in towers dont wanna spawn there anymore they go to the ground floor everytime now

[forest hemlock]

What do i have to change to allow the AI to share ammo if only one of the weapons are out of ammo? Ex the RPG gunner doesnt ask for ammo until both his RPG and Rifle are all out then the assistant drops some rockets for him. I want the assistant to drop rockets when the RPG gunner runs out of rockets

[haughty ivy]

Hey All. So "Enable Danger Events" causes the AI to come running 100's of meters away at the first gun shot sound.
Any quick, down and dirty way to limit that distance. I've unchecked but of course that makes AI completely stupid to any gun shots. I know @shy lake is able to manipulate in his CRX mod.
I am using scenario framework, and spawning AI with slotAI.

[shy lake]

It's done in "SCR_AIDangerReaction_WeaponFired.c".
But it needs some extra code since it was changed to be part of the "A.I. Cluster System".

To be more precise:
The part where you need to use your own distance condition is in "SCR_AIDangerReaction_WeaponFired.c".

    // Notify our group
    // ! Only if we are a leader
    AIGroup myGroup = AIGroup.Cast(utility.GetOwner().GetParentGroup());
    if (myGroup && myGroup.GetLeaderAgent() == agent)
         NotifyGroup(myGroup, shooter, lookPosition);
    
    // Ignore if we have selected a target
    // Ignore if target is too far
    if (utility.m_CombatComponent.GetCurrentTarget() != null ||
        distance > AI_WEAPONFIRED_REACTION_DISTANCE)
    return false;

1. part of the code is used for A.I. investigate behavior.
2. part is used for A.I. observe position behavior.
   If you need any more help just let me know. 👍

[shy lake]

Well guess it was my fault...
Still had some modded stuff in "SCR_AIInvestigateClusterActivity.c" which i think caused the null errors. 💩

[halcyon bridge]

when I give an AI a move task, flow will only proceed when the task is complete?

[shy lake]

Yes but be aware it can also return Fail which would stop it from proceeding anything after it.
I always use the base "Decorator" node with it and set it to "Force Return Success" to make sure it keeps going even if the move task returned fail.

[halcyon bridge]

does the AI know how to shoot at moving vehicles now?

also their perception when manning a turret is still quite horrible

[sinful palm]

They can lead with an RPG better than most players.

[halcyon bridge]

can they shoot at helicopters or do they still fire at the position the helicopter was 2 minutes ago?

[sinful palm]

Sure. e.g. if you try fly a helicopter into a base in Conflict, they might shoot it down.

[halcyon bridge]

amazing, so we only need better visibility in turrets then

and then maybe AI will be usable in my AA gun

[sinful palm]

idk if any of it works with turrets or not. Only seen it with rifles/RPGs

[halcyon bridge]

their target acquisition is bad when in a turret

I need to fly the heli super close for them to actually look at me and fire

[rotund ibex]

How can I find the waypoint type? For example if it is AIWaypointCycle or SCR_AIWaypoint.

[opal arch]

You talking about script? You can cast it into the class you are looking for. If the resault comes null then its not that.

[rotund ibex]

Yes, in scripting. I'll try that approach.

[rotund ibex]

Thanks, that worked. Feels quite "brute force", but does its job.

[halcyon bridge]

since those different waypoints are classes, casting makes sense

[queen karma]

where did the mod go where ai follows the player when the f key is pressed?

[deft canopy]

I am just getting started with modding Reforger and I want to create a mod that either changes the 'defend' command so that the AI ill not move outside the defend area for any reason
OR
Add a new command named 'hold' that makes an AI stay put.
The goal is to do something similar to what CRX's hold position function did.

Before I dive into this, is there someone here who can help me understand logically the best way to approach this?

[south yoke]

keep me updated, ive removed the move / attack and all other ticks from ai control and still they run lol

[supple jacinth]

It's outdated.

[rotund ibex]

Is there a script way to find which of the waypoints in a list in a cycle waypoint is the current one AI is going towards?

[opal arch]

I see a GetRerunCounter inside the AIWaypointCycle but not sure what that is refering to, you could try it. If not i would probably use the GetWaypoints in AIWaypointCycle then get current wp of group and compare it to that list.

[rotund ibex]

Thx, the reruncounter was the one I found too but does not sound like the one I'm looking for. I'll test.

[rotund ibex]

It was actually simpler. Get the list of waypoints (wp) for a group, the first one is always the one where they're going. Once it's reached, the first one is removed and the 'new' first one is the next place they're going to. At the end of the list is the cycle waypoint which resets the list. Rinse and repeat.

[meager inlet]

I’m working on a mod that is intended to be 100% PvP. I was wondering if anyone knows if I can just completely omit the ai elements like the nav mesh etc or if they are needed for general gameplay to function?

[halcyon bridge]

you can omit the navmesh if there is no intention of using AI

[atomic magnet]

Isn't navmesh baked into the map/island itself? Or am I misunderstanding something?

[halcyon bridge]

you'd regenerate it if you edit the map

[atomic magnet]

I see, roger that.

[regal terrace]

reposting here because I just realized devs usually dont answer anything in the questions channel: When did it change that ai no longer spawns on top of a building but below it on the ground's surface or inside it? I don't like that, is there a line of script I can edit for that? Was that done to fix the ai points I found placed below the ground's surface?

[random owl]

@regal terrace honestly I'm not sure there was such change. Maybe consequence of some changes, sure.

I'm also not sure what it refers to.
To me it seems spawn ai on top of the building.

[regal terrace]

Maybe gm is different, I was referring to ambient patrol spawn component in conflict. For instance on power plant roof, those not spawned groups. They now drop to the surface and get stuck inside the power plant furniture. I also have a platform I built in the sea and they drop to the waters surface and get stuck below the platforms. Pier parts I believe.

[haughty ivy]

@solar stream I'll check my stuff. I spawn AI with SF gamemode on roofs. Haven't checked lately.

At the power plant, good to go. The screen shot is while in GM, but the action takes place by SF mode. @regal terrace

[fathom viper]

I noticed this behavior actually. Turn off the "Snap To Terrain" checkbox on groups you want to spawn

My mod has a similar system spawning groups/units on placed markers. Same behavior. Setting snap to terriain to false fixed issue

[regal terrace]

Big thanks for that! I wonder when that was introduced, and I wonder why its default behavior was set to the new way instead of how it used to work. 👀 🤷‍♂️

[fathom viper]

Could have been new code whose default value is set to true? That's my guess. Either way, glad to help!

[rich swift]

Hi! There is a way to disable AI attacking? My unarmed soldiers run to fight.. I search something like A3 disableAI command.

if (combatComp)
{
    combatComp.SetHoldFire(true);
    combatComp.SetDefaultCombatType(EAICombatType.NONE);
    combatComp.SetCombatType(EAICombatType.NONE);
}``` not helps

[rich swift]

i see nothing usable in SCR_AIConfigComponent,
SCR_AISettingsComponent initialize units by global attack settings

[halcyon bridge]

turn off AI control in the AI agent is probably the most effective

maybe perception component? not sure if weapon audibility is read there

[shy lake]

If you don't like him to investigate check SCR_AIDangerReaction_WeaponFired.c.
You could check the A.I.s weapon and if none return false.
Depending on what you like the A.I. to be capable of.
If you just need the A.I. to be there doing nothing at all go with what bacon told.

[rich swift]

they just leaning and build base by shovel, but i want keep AIs on base area

i try SetPerceptionFactor() maybe it helps, if not, i will extend AIDangerReaction

ty

perception factor updated/overwritten by aicombatcomponent so need add new reaction for my unarmed soldiers

[haughty ivy]

@rich swift If you are using SF to spawn AI....

1. Use Slot.et instead of SlotAI.et
   or
2. "Set to No Value" in the "WP to Spawn" field.

Looking for insight on getting AI to engage aircraft with vehicle weapons. Especially the ZU-23 or BTR70.
Any workarounds?
Is it possible?
They will not engage the helicopters. I can fly right up to the ZU-23, land, and as soon as I exit it rips. I am spawning everything with SF. I've tried adding some AISmart .bt's to the slotAI and slot components but nothing.

[halcyon bridge]

Been an issue forever... I'll check later or tomorrow as I vaguely remember some component settings that made it slightly less bad

[supple jacinth]

They indeed engage aircraft just they are slow. ASF

That's a problem of AI slow turrets movement well that's a problem from bohemia.

[supple jacinth]

Experiment made with vanilla an RHS vehicles

[halcyon bridge]

what controls the AI get out from vehicle gunner seat behavior?

[shy lake]

I think it's in SCR_AICombatComponent.DismountTurretCondition(); and SCR_AIDangerReaction_WeaponFired.DismountTurretCondition();

Well both use the SCR_AICombatComponent.DismountTurretCondition(); so forget about the SCR_AIDangerReaction_WeaponFired one.

[verbal estuary]

poor AI, it was going so well then suddenly... FIRE

[opal flame]

Since clients can run ai code...
Is it possible to have some ai running from clients like in arma 3?
I think in arma 3 the game master ai was spawned on the game master client and was calculated on the game master client as well.

Is this a thing in reforger at all?

[halcyon bridge]

to my knowledge AI is simulated on the server

[shy lake]

Is there a way to find out what map tile an A.I. agent is currently at?
If yes is there a way to get the tile edge/border position/coordinates?
Somehow a tile edge position ( the position where one tile ends and the next tile starts ) the little space between tiles always returned vector.Zero now it returns coordinates and A.I. will detect it as hole in navmesh and use it for cover.
So i was looking for a way to blacklist a position if it's a tile edge position to prevent A.I. from using it as cover.

[stable wagon]

is it possible that some doors on everone are broken on the nav mesh because the ai teleport through closed doors

[shy lake]

A.I. and doors are bit buggy since like forever.
Guess they are using teleport if door opening failed.
Its done this way with A.I. unable to get into vehicles too.

[tranquil zodiac]

When will there be such an AI?
Unfortunately, the project was stopped due to performance problems during Arma 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXmke6nnXDs&t=69s

[supple jacinth]

Probably when arma 4 came out...

[stable wagon]

Will we ever get a fix for the broken door on everon? @ Devs

[random owl]

broken doors are mostly invalid data(mismatch between navmesh metadata and EntityIds in level), I guess it can be even caused by some mods when I think about it from top of my head.

I have plan how to rewrite them so we have no longer this issue but it isn't trivial and it wasn't priority (as in most cases fix was just reexport data). So yea we are aware and provide fix in foreseeable future.

[stable wagon]

is there a way to turn it off so they cant teleport through?

[halcyon bridge]

just make it play the dragonball teleport sound when they do it

[shy lake]

Is the A.I. reload bug a already known issue esp. with MG weapon type where A.I. sometimes pulling the trigger of the MG but the weapon does not shoot?

I have seen this happening multiple times now since quite a while.

[echo minnow]

Is there a way to tell the A.I. to reload manually via script?

[shy lake]

My best bet would be: CharacterControllerComponent.ReloadWeapon(); however i never used it.
I would be interested to hear if it's working. ✌️

Is there a way to make individual A.I. move by using a script?
Something like "doMove" command or is A.I. move restricted to .bts?
I tryed: characterControllerComponent.SetMovement(10, "0 0 -10"); and characterControllerComponent.SetMovementDirWorld("0 0 -10"); but they did not move...

[outer furnace]

atm you should be able to just divide them by a size (not best way I know). I can try to add some getters etc, but no promises when will it get out

[shy lake]

Hey thanks. 👍
Well it's not very important.
I was just curiouse if there is already a way to do this.
A.I. detecting navmesh edges as "hole in navmesh" mainly happens at initial combat once and a lot on empty maps.
Most maps have plenty of objects so this problem is very minor.

[random owl]

I was convinced we fixed that recently. Maybe not out yet.

[shy lake]

Would be cool if there was any kind of blindfire animation/functionality.
One of my mods goal is to keep A.I. behind cover as long as they are directly attacked however they are uable to be a threat or defend themselves while sitting in cover.
A way to make them put their weapon somewhere above/around their cover and just blindfire towards enemy direction would highly improve their tactical behavior in this specific situation.
Would require quite some calculations but i guess it would be worth it. 👨‍🔧

[halcyon bridge]

did the AI perception curve for time of day go away?

[quiet sphinx]

Hi im new to all this, like in conflict AI spawn per your radius to the tent, well i want to spawn zombies on my server with out gming it everytime. is there away i can do the same setup just with out a tent

[echo minnow]

I tested it and it works, but I have no idea when or where to properly execute it. I changed it so that weapons do not have magazines loaded in by default.
I can call it from EOnInit of SCR_ChimeraAIAgent but I have to add a delay for it to work properly every time.
Any suggestions where it should be called from so that the AI unit is fully initialized and ready to do a reload action?

[shy lake]

If you like it to happen on mission start once may check their Idle behavior and use it's OnActionSelected().

Idle behavior = SCR_AIIdleBehavior.c or something like this iirc.

[echo minnow]

In my use case I want it to hapen when a Game Master places AI and the AI is actually ready to reload

Maybe in the behavior tree or something?

Or when main systems of the ai get initialized, not just when the entity gets initialized

[shy lake]

Idle behavior is the A.I. default behavior and is always executed first.

Sure best way is to edit the Idle behavior tree.

Iirc there is already a reload node you can use for this.

[echo minnow]

Yeah actually now I remembered that the AI does reload their empty weapons when idle for 10-15 seconds, but if I give them a waypoint immediately after spawning, they will not reload until they spot an enemy 😄

[shy lake]

True.
But once they complete the waypoint they will use idle again.

Guess the time you need to add a waypoint they will already be half way done with reloading.

[echo minnow]

Yeah

I kinda want them to reload pretty much immediately after being spawned. The delay is not reliable enough but adding it to idle BT can cause them to spawn, walk 100 meters and then reload after that as they dont reload while moving for some reason.

I should probably look for a method that is not as early as EOnInit, but rather when the unit has all the needed systems ready to perform the reload action

[shy lake]

To me the EOnInit works fine.
I'm using it too with a 500ms callLater.
Not sure if there is anything as precise as you are looking for.
Maybe you could try modify the A.I. spawn methode and add it at the end of it.
But not sure if everything else was already initialized at this point.

[echo minnow]

Oh well if EOnInit with 500ms works for you maybe I could use it too then

It's not like this is super critical anyways

[shy lake]

Yes i use it to make A.I. turn on their flashlight when spawned and 500ms seemed to be the sweatspot to get it done as soon as possible.

[echo minnow]

Will try that. Where do you use it?

Or in which component?

[inland stag]

u can change the tent prefab in faction manager and then create youre custom prefab if thats what u mean ?

[quiet sphinx]

yes i wasnt sure the process TY

[inland stag]

i duplicate base prefabs and worked my way backwards from there to understand the parts that were needed for prefabs to work

good luck with it

[quiet sphinx]

is it FactionManager_Base?

[inland stag]

depends on what gamemode youre doing

with base prefabs i meant the headquarters basic prefab

[shy lake]

Same way you already do.
class SCR_ChimeraAIAgent > EOnInit

[echo minnow]

Oh nice 😄
Thanks for the help!

[echo minnow]

Now I just need to make my mod work alongside yours 😄

[shy lake]

As long as you are using
super.EOnInit(owner);
In your EOnInit it should be fine.

[echo minnow]

Ah forgot about it completely, thanks again!

[shy lake]

For some reason pre-placed A.I. do not generate a navmesh.
I have to live place them in Game Master?

Yeah i have to at least place one A.I. live in Game Master to enable navmesh streaming...
If that's a new feature its terrible!

[outer furnace]

Hey could you elaborate? How did you placed them? What layer did you had AIs and aiworld in?

[shy lake]

I use a sub-world of Arland.
SCR_AIWorld_Arland is in a layer called "AI" in the root of my sub-world.
So this is a bug and not intentional?
If you like i can send you a screenshot of my world hierachy. Can't post it here.

[outer furnace]

Yes please, send me the hierarchy of the subworld

[shy lake]

Nevermind i can. 😉

Thank's for checking it.

[outer furnace]

I will try to check it today/tommorrow

[shy lake]

Cool take your time.
I know how i can get it to work for now.

[outer furnace]

Hey, I think I found the problem. 🤞 it will be fixed in next build

[vocal path]

@outer furnace Is there a way to make the current PlayerCharacter invisible to the AI? So, they complete ignore them (without changing the Faction) TY

[opal arch]

Check the SCR_CharacterPerceivableComponent on the character prefab, i think dissabling that might do the trick.

[vocal path]

? Does not exists

[halcyon bridge]

no SCR_

[vocal path]

The regular one is not Scriptable

[halcyon bridge]

you can still try to disable the component

[opal arch]

you should be able to dissable it on the character the player will be using, or you can dissable it externally through script.

[vocal path]

Will try - ty

[vocal path]

        m_charPercComp = CharacterPerceivableComponent.Cast(m_character.FindComponent(CharacterPerceivableComponent));
        if(m_charPercComp) {
            Print("Disable CharacterPerceivableComponent");
            m_charPercComp.Deactivate(m_character);
        }

Still get killed 😦

[opal arch]

you are doing it on the player right? Not the AI that is attacking

[vocal path]

Right.

if i disable it on the CharacterBase it works!

But i need to enable/disable it on runtime

maybe i need to deactivate before i get marked as Enemy. Will try some stuff now

i only need to disable it on the Server right?

[inner vine]

We don't support deactivated PerceivableComponent, you probably can't do that. You would need a specific prefab for that

[vocal path]

😦

[fleet ibex]

Didn't SetDisarmed on PerceivableComponent cause the end goal of what he wants to happen?

[inner vine]

Maybe, but it could be that some script would override the disarmed value

[fleet ibex]

From AddOrUpdateTarget it seems that setting SetDisarmed(true) would cause it to be ignored

But I wonder if it does affect what it reads, it comes from another place

[vocal path]

The Disarmed stuff in the Behaviour Scripts and Goals will not work. There is a lot of stuff Scripted, that tells me that AI never shoot on a disarmed BaseTarget. But is not true 😄

[fleet ibex]

Ddi you try it at least?

[vocal path]

Sure i always run in front of the AI without a weapon

But he do not care

[fleet ibex]

Not that.

try calling the method

[vocal path]

i will try

SetDisarmed where did you find this?

[fleet ibex]

#enfusion_ai message

[vocal path]

''PerceivableComponent.SetDisarmed()'' does not exist

[fleet ibex]

It has an argument

do PerceivableComponent.SetDisarmed(true)

[vocal path]

Undefined function

i only got isDisarmed but not Set

[fleet ibex]

Ah it might not be in the version of the game you are running

[inner vine]

Mario exposing feature, which is not yet in the game

[vocal path]

Time for a Patchday 😄 😄

Ok, then i set this to WIP and waiting for the next Patch.

Thank you guys

[inner vine]

Next major update yes

[balmy gorge]

Saw this in Blog Notes: Fixed: AI completion of SmartAction, correct door movement danger reaction -any idea what this entails?

[halcyon bridge]

they should react to you opening doors in vicinity

Fixed AI completion would mean the action was bugged and the AI agent wasn't marking it as complete, maybe

but in fairness I'm pretty sure opening doors alerted them last time I played, so not sure how serious the bug is

[balmy gorge]

Neat !

Not the bug (obviously) -but opened door reactions is something iv ewanted (and tried to implent) for a long time

[spring plaza]

Don’t make Ivan use his Bow and Arrow for some corrective action…..

[random owl]

correct door movement danger reaction - there were some improper calculations so even they tried to move away from doors they get stuck on them.
AI completion of SmartAction - some bugs in BTs when AIs were ordered to do smart action, nothing big

[balmy gorge]

Ahh so it has nothing to do with reacting to doors that have been or are opening in terms of AI detection..? Bummer

[upbeat smelt]

hello guys ia not spawn in multiplayer

[wise pebble]

Custom gamemode? Custom terrain?

[upbeat smelt]

custom gamemode

campaign

i have scr aiworld