csla_iron_curtain

[inner urchin]

i saw that in a mod somewhere too

[bold mulch]

uniforms bother me the most anyway

they are utterly bad

[inner urchin]

an nvg mod or some shit

[scenic cove]

@upper galleon @grave rock Note however that as of this afternoon they had not been able to reproduce the M16A2 + M203 GL crash with only CSLA loaded... neither could I, though I saw anecdotes that others had it too

[lunar marsh]

This is a paid mod 1 way or another. The quality of CLSA is utterly low with Arma 2 assets that are used in a free mod and is useable by everyone because of the license.

The terrain is basically a combination of Wefferlingen en Livonia.
Which is the only good thing they did but nobody is gonna pay 12 euro's for a map.

[inner urchin]

true too

it doesnt feel like a dlc

[visual leaf]

Can CSLA do more harm to BI's image than it is worth monetarily?

[rocky yew]

What issues you might add?
Civilian truck being fully blue like someone slapped a paint brush over it in Microsoft paint.
Mi-8 having terrible clipping.
T-72 with Arma 2 3rd person view.
Terrible models.
Terrible textures.

[copper monolith]

I think GM team also said the ability to make a CDLC pushed them to work harder and do more than what they would've done for a mod.
Yes. Once we were signed on for official content it made it a lot easier to justify the extra hours after the dayjob to work on a mod. Especially when friends and family time had to be cut back for this to happen.

[lunar marsh]

The community deemed this DLC a paid mod and now CLSA is not even attempting damage control but BI is. Which is quite funny

[bold mulch]

they didn't harm BI so far

[inner urchin]

it really does feel like something off armaholic

[timid quartz]

BI did?

[inner urchin]

game development is tough, is it time to unionize comrade?

[lunar marsh]

This discord is attempting damage control lol.

[bold mulch]

I don't see BI-blaming anywhere, everything is focused on CSLA devs

[fickle narwhal]

I still think it would have been better since you would have been free of restrictions

[scenic cove]

It is always time to unionize the game development

[fickle narwhal]

That being said I'm glad you got paid

[visual leaf]

So all the bad press it is getting on YTB, reddit, discord and Steam is not bad for BI?

[fading snow]

But what's stopping them from releasing the not approved stuff as a mod on the workshop if BI will probably not accept it. Either way let's try and stay on topic and not discuss the overall CDLC topic in here we can do that in #creator_dlc_discussion
But my mind is made. I'm pretty sure no CDLC would have been as good quality wise if they weren't paid. (Which is not bad imo)

[jolly lantern]

BI is also being blamed for letting this go through.
Which.. isn't wrong

[inner urchin]

well did you?

[lunar marsh]

More then reasonable as you guys should keep up that standard lol.

[fickle narwhal]

No one is attempting damage control

[fading snow]

I can totally understand. I still wonder how this happened

[rocky yew]

The only part I would say BI is at fault is quality control.
But I don’t know the degree they do it in, the product wasn’t finished or to the liking of the community for a CDLC status.

There are some bugs and flaws that could’ve been ironed out / found out in a few weeks of testing.
I’m worried about how the initial phase would’ve gone with the initially planned release where CSLA devs said they were happy with it.

[bold mulch]

but it's not that harmful if you really didn't know the CSLA is in such a bad shape

[rocky yew]

How much worse were the models, what would’ve all been broken.

[scenic cove]

There is CSLA dev communication, but afaik it's all happening on their own Discord

[bold mulch]

their Discord is a hellhole now

[inner urchin]

this reminds me a quote from the terror, paraphrased
“when people are angry, the first thing they go for is the leader and thats you”

or something something

[rocky yew]

It’s a fucking shitshow on their own discord.
Poorly managed, trolls and weebs run amuck.

[lunar marsh]

Apparantly I'm trolling by saying that
CLSA use the same type of assets like CUP

Here I am trolling people.

[rocky yew]

You can’t have a civilised discussion in their discord.

[inner urchin]

they have a discord?

[lunar marsh]

[visual leaf]

Your comments are really really hard to digest... and contribute little

[rocky yew]

Do you want to pop an aspirin within now and 5 minutes?
Then join.

[fickle narwhal]

No you said they ripped them and were sharing them with CUP which is not true

[bold mulch]

what do you want from me?

[inner urchin]

link if you bave it?

[lunar marsh]

I said they used the same assets and that's why I got warned for it.

[visual leaf]

Coherency!

[leaden kite]

@jolly lantern good luck, friend. I'm not being paid enough to stay any longer. My prayers are with you

[inner urchin]

todays a school day

[lunar marsh]

Which is technically true.

[inner urchin]

something to like idk

[lunar marsh]

They use the same assets

[inner urchin]

skip the time

[fading snow]

Well I'm pretty sure Dedmen can't speak for everyone at BI 😄 But whoever made the final call on this I highly question his decision.

[lunar marsh]

Dedmen is just a programmer

[inner urchin]

hmmm fuck it we’ll add god!

[lunar marsh]

a cog in the weel

[visual leaf]

You are getting paid? 😆

[jolly lantern]

CSLA has issues that aren't really a bug.
QA looks for bugs.

And if CSLA team says this is how they want their CDLC to be, what should BI do about it?
Cancel a DLC that was announced a year ago with tons of people having them put onto their wishlist and probably thousands of people waiting for?... Not really an option is it?

[copper monolith]

I still think it would have been better since you would have been free of restrictions
Probably true yes, but in a give-take way. It would be less content overall, and more a niche/simulation. I think the CDLC made us align a bit broader (if not broad enough) and think about/prioritize things that we personally had disregarded before than. Overall a net benefit for the project and subsequent product I'd say.

[bold mulch]

I've been coherently discussing with Dedmen about BI role in the lack of CSLA quality which you have probably missed

[rocky yew]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/616725503835111463/854812730963263488/20210616205611_1.jpg

[bold mulch]

but that's not my problem, so sorry

[leaden kite]

no

[bold mulch]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rocky yew]

This made it, into the full release

[jolly lantern]

same type, okey.
Ripped, not okey.
Same assets, not okey.

[lunar marsh]

Those textures

[inner urchin]

oh god

[rocky yew]

Sure, a few minor issues are to be found.
Reversed PIP viewports though?

[lunar marsh]

Same assets in the end tho as it's all Arma 2 can't deny that

[rocky yew]

Seriously.

[inner urchin]

i need a shot @jolly lantern whatcha drinkin?

[lunar marsh]

You cannot deny

that CLSA and CUP

have the same assets but both have them slightly edited

Texture

[scenic cove]

Speaking of their Discord, I'm now cracking up because I didn't feel 'dammit these assets weren't worth the money' until I saw some 'actual Czechoslovak weapons that didn't make it into Iron Curtain' and now I wish they had 😆

[lunar marsh]

or small mirror wise

[inner urchin]

this feels like a congressional hearing and im stuck here, and i love it

god…yes

anyways

[jolly lantern]

whats wrong with it?
The screens are flipped?

[inner urchin]

yeah, are we actually getting anywehere?

[lunar marsh]

Nope cuz people don't understand that a retexture isn't a different asset

lol

[fickle narwhal]

Partially yes but each has their own assets too. CUP and SOGPF also use assets with similar origins but they also each have their own

[jolly lantern]

tapwater.

[leaden kite]

Arma 2 -> Arma 3 RHS
Arma 2 -> Arma 3 CUP
Arma 2 -> Arma 3 CSLA cDLC

same origin. Not the same assets.

[leaden kite]

man of culture.

[fickle narwhal]

Need to get that good filtered stuff... maybe even bottled

[inner urchin]

i think rhs has a lot of oc

[jolly lantern]

Some of them have their origin in A2, not all.

[inner urchin]

they got loads of kit that wasnt in a2 esp the newer stuff

[keen sparrow]

Mostly the CZECH stuff IIRC

[jolly lantern]

bottled water is a environmental sin. Don't change my mind 😄 And don't reply to this please no offtopic

[lunar marsh]

CSLA 10 custom vehicles does not make up for the fact of copied helicopters, weaponry with just different textures.

[jolly lantern]

I think it does

[rocky yew]

I think the community has spoken about that already with their reviews.

[fickle narwhal]

Plus dozens of new buildings/objects

[inner urchin]

honestly if they release it as an addon to gm for like 5 bucks just the vehicles and gabreta as a separate map for like 3-4 maybe 10 bucks

we wouldnt be here

[rocky yew]

There isn’t a redemption arch anytime soon either with the overall attitude and denial.

My verdict: lost CDLC, lost chance, lots of potential.

Case closed.

Sleep.

[inner urchin]

YES

[lunar marsh]

Wow a building on a terrain! Mister consumer is really gonna notice that 😄

[inner urchin]

SLEeP

[inner urchin]

no as a mission maker, we do

we really really do

[lunar marsh]

True on that regard tho

but nobody gonna buy a Terrain for 10 dollars

[leaden kite]

it has also been said that if RHS were to be released today, it would be a cDLC, not a free one.

[fickle narwhal]

A lot of buildings. They're unique. They influence the game play more than the assault rifle you're using normally does

[inner urchin]

thats why i said 3-5

like fuckkk gabreta is a great map

it really is

[fading snow]

is for the week
and yeah actually also for those that are tired but are we ever really tired? Or is our body just tricking us?
Sorry

[leaden kite]

I did. Others did, too.

[inner urchin]

its 4:30

i have class in 3 hours

[leaden dagger]

i highly doubt that. that's pretty much against their agenda / credo

[inner urchin]

is it?

[visual leaf]

I think the Art of War DLC should assimilate the Arma 2 ports of CSLA as Damage Control, It could be better to cut the reputation degradation before it gets worst (International Media) 😅

[fickle narwhal]

Pretty sure one of them said it would be earlier

[lunar marsh]

Anyway I'm aboutta head out

Cuz I can't stand this

[scenic cove]

Mmmmhmm... never forget that MMORPG 'whaling' is a thing

[leaden kite]

lemme grab the message if I can find it

[inner urchin]

you never can pretend to know people, case in point youtubers

[lunar marsh]

Goodluck with the CLSA bois it gonna be

[inner urchin]

unless you know them, you dont know them

[leaden dagger]

i don't understand

[leaden kite]

@leaden dagger #csla_iron_curtain message

[fickle narwhal]

Also pretty sure there was an RHS guy in that one video they showed from the meeting in Mnisek

[scenic cove]

Heck, this CDLC currently costs roughly the same amount of money as a ten-pack of lootbox rolls in Star Trek Online!

[jolly lantern]

I think its worth the money.
Thats like.. a bit over one pizza? for a terrain you can play hundreds of hours on

[leaden dagger]

i stand corrected, thanks

[lunar marsh]

With who?

[inner urchin]

true

[simple quiver]

or two packs of cigarettes 😛

[lunar marsh]

[inner urchin]

thats like 20 packs here

[shadow glade]

totally not worth it

[inner urchin]

heheheheehehehh

[keen sparrow]

I just wanna throw in, that I keep watching this channel constantly since 9 hours, what is wrong with me

[inner urchin]

3rd world strikes again

[fading snow]

My Opinion:
Love the map, the rest is meh and would be worth the money if most of the content would not be available already through mods (which are free) which is a real game changer for this CDLC. So basically I would pay 11€ for a map which is really cool (not the best) SP Content that is ok. Mulitplayer scenarios which are ok. And yeah I already talked about the assets (vehicles, uniforms, weapons etc.).
But since I got it for free I'll take it and at least can use the map to play around in combination with GM which will be cool.

[lunar marsh]

Nah but kidding that's true @jolly lantern yes the terrain can be used for 100+ hours but with the current look at the charts and reviews nobody is gonna have the DLC

[jolly lantern]

With your friends.
Me and my friends bought borderlands (~40€) together, so we could play about 80 hours till we were through.

[rocky yew]

Or two XXL kebabs, and I’d rather treat the nice Turkish man at the kebab shop with a tip ontop of those

[fading snow]

Don't worry you're not alone ^^

[scenic cove]

At this point I almost-exclusively play Arma 3 as SP if at all 🤷

[grave rock]

Where are you getting two packs of smokes for 10? I'd like to know this lol.

[lunar marsh]

Everyone has their own thing. For me it's the team building and amazing unique experiences 🤷‍♂️

[uncut rapids]

IS THE csla dlc worth buying?

[lunar marsh]

No imho

[inner urchin]

mand in the end its bi’s fucked up dlc policy, everyone needs the dlc or you cant use the map

[lunar marsh]

but that's my opinion

[inner urchin]

like whats the point?

[lunar marsh]

True

[scenic cove]

Hence 'subjective'...

[inner urchin]

that just kills any new dlc maps instantly

[simple quiver]

🇮🇹

[fickle narwhal]

Depends on who you ask and what you want

[lunar marsh]

Nope not on CAM LAO NAM

[inner urchin]

ok except that

[raven glen]

About the cDLC, the assets are already available in the Compatibility files on the Workshop. If I want to put in the 10 bucks, that's going all for the map/scenarios that come with it.

[lunar marsh]

SOG Prairie Fire killed it.

[fading snow]

Try poland even cheaper over there

[leaden kite]

it's a "hell meh" from us as a whole. If you want it for the map, get it. If not, it's a lot harder of a sell.

[inner urchin]

wonder why groups bigger than 20 doesnt host on tanoa?

[lunar marsh]

Especially with the gamemode.

[inner urchin]

or livonia?

thats why

[uncut rapids]

what if i want it for the guns/armors?

[lunar marsh]

Cuz you can't force your users to pay for something you gonna use

[inner urchin]

get rhs and cup

[little gulch]

Almost no players left playing SOG now

[lunar marsh]

that's why there is free alternatives

[rough vortex]

My issues here have more to do with the terrain. Short version, Gabreta needs more optimization. I'm having performance issues and frequent hitching on higher settings in some areas. The map itself is nice if a bit repetitive (the buildings in particular; I'm not from Czechia so i can't comment on whether or not that's authentic).
Once that's sorted, I would recommend that the team focus more on improving the infantry equipment and weapons. Audio in general also needs work. The vehicles are quite fine despite what a lot of community feedback would say. I've worked on CUP and I can say a couple things about that
Firstly, CSLA has not copied anything from CUP's efforts. Everything they did, they did themselves, and there's a number of vehicles that they did all by themselves (M939 and CUCV being two examples). Yes, a lot of stuff is Arma 2 models run through the wash and given a lot of polish. I don't mind that
Secondly, CSLA has paid a lot more close attention to authentic function of the vehicles. Everything but the tanks has a full interior, all of the optics are correct, the ballistics of the vehicle weapons corresponds to the optics fairly well, and the weapons all function as they do in real life and have their real life limitations. CUP is quite inconsistent when it comes to matching any of these points
Thirdly, all of CSLA's stuff appears to be properly configured. I checked most of the vehicles and they all have comprehensive inventories, they all drive around believably knowing the specs of their real life counterparts, and again they function authentically. Again, audio could use revisiting on many of these vehicles
Lastly, the textures are better than CUP's across the board.

I'd also like to remind people that SOG was a huge and expensive effort by a big team with a lot of phoned-in help, CSLA is made by a small team on a shoestring budget

[fading snow]

Yes and you'll have full and unrestricted access to all the content (Vehicles, weapons etc.) without getting the ad to buy it ^^

[scenic cove]

I'm going to say a 'wait', but as BrendoB47 said you can try it out yourself from the Workshop

[leaden kite]

holy mother of walls of text

[inner urchin]

but the maps doh?

[fickle narwhal]

Probably better off getting a mod unless there is something unique to it that you want

[inner urchin]

its the only good thing anout it

[inner jackal]

Less than one pack of cigs here in NYC...

[royal cloud]

[lunar marsh]

Vietnam units got a massive boost, Mike Force is still being developed and it set the standard but that's my opinion

[rough vortex]

TL:DR y'all being unfair, stop comparing it to SOG, SOG was done by a much bigger team team with a lot more budget

[fading snow]

GM was made by 2 people if I'm not mistaken.

[inner urchin]

true but even compared to ws mods its kinda meh

like 5-6/10

[fading snow]

[shadow glade]

a cdlc on a shoestring budget shouldn't be allowed

[lunar marsh]

SOG Set a standard of a CLDC + GM

[unreal marlin]

As far as I know, you can always refund it if your not happy.

[inner urchin]

harder daddy

oh god

XD

[fading snow]

[inner urchin]

im getting banned

XD

[scenic cove]

And it's ABSOLUTELY being graded on a 'Vietnam War setting' curve that neither GM nor CSLA got to benefit from

[rough vortex]

SOG REWROTE THE ARMA 3 MAIN MENU
Expecting that same level of every CDLC is unreasonable

[scenic cove]

And there's a mod to undo that! 😆

[misty bramble]

which looks horrible

[unreal marlin]

Who the F xD

[scenic cove]

Plus in hindsight, it's not lost on me how many of SOG PF's 'gameplay features' amount to modules that have mod counterparts... well, that and the decision to make melee a fire mode

[lunar marsh]

It's not even that. Lol It's the standard quality standard thatthey upheld. CLSA should have never been approved.

[inner urchin]

in the end, my expectations were an all in one package to replace dhi, cup, rhs (for cold war ops) and sonon

[little gulch]

You can check yourself.
Only few servers using SOG left with +- ok population. 90% are empty by now with 0 online or not even 10 players.
Private servers with a lot of additional mods and with a password don't count much for me

[inner urchin]

yeah

[rough vortex]

Your expectations were unreasonable and not supported by what was put out pre-release

[inner urchin]

bis needs to reform their dlc policy if they want their life expectancy to be beyond 2 months?

[inner urchin]

true in hindsight

[leaden kite]

I would like to mention at this point that SOG's revive system is a thorn in my side, since I very much prefer ace.

[inner urchin]

but thats also because of the lacknof info

[uncut rapids]

how many gb is the dlc?

[leaden kite]

7.5

[rough vortex]

7.5 for me

[inner urchin]

we got 5 blogs with little text and screenshots, those looked fine

[unreal marlin]

Disable it, and use ace?

[scenic cove]

7.5 GB for either the Compatibility Data or the CDLC

[turbid summit]

can you write this as STEAM review so i can point people to it ? 😵‍💫

[fading snow]

Expecting every CDLC to have the same level as the others is just stupid. Different developers different budget etc.
But you can expect some sort of standard quality that would be expected from BI in order for them to be able to say "Ok this is good we can release it".

[leaden kite]

p sure it's not possible. Or at least it wasn't when we last tried. I could be wrong.

[scenic cove]

Hence last year's delay...

[inner urchin]

but this is barely passable for 10 bucks

let alone like 5

[uncut rapids]

idk, i just like making fictional factions and inspired classes, so i was thinking about just getting dlc for more stuff to use in arma 3 virtual arsenal

[unreal marlin]

We actively use ace for our missions.

[inner urchin]

at its state its better off free as like a testing period

[leaden kite]

You tried MikeForce with it?

[inner urchin]

but again thats just me

i dont work full time so pricing is a lil

eh

[rough vortex]

Also: SOG and GM are nearly twice the asking price
Many of Y'all haven't considered that

[unreal marlin]

Yes. Works fine there too.

[inner urchin]

so i cant comment much even though i am (which im sorry :p)

[twilit iris]

ACE is incompatible with SOG, I assume CSLA will also have some broken things too, but that’s away from the channel topic

[inner urchin]

oooh

didnt know that

[twilit iris]

I know ACE will kill you from the backblast on handheld flares

[unreal marlin]

Not completely incompatible. Just some small stuff.

[inner urchin]

shit even if the dlc works that’s a deal breaker

[scenic cove]

Compatibility Data it is...

[turbid summit]

you also comparing massive disrepancy in manpower behind each team (let's skip the absolute advantage of GM skillset due to years of BISIM work)

[leaden kite]

hum, interesting. Would you be fine with explaining in DMs how to disable it? I searched far and wide but maybe I missed something obvious

[fading snow]

Yeah but that didn't do that much. I played the closed beta about 8 months ago and instantly played again as soon as I could to see how much of a difference there is. Bugs I reported on GitLab 8 months ago were closed and they said it's fixed. Today I tried 3 things that were bugged in the Beta and they still were buggy even though all the tickets I created were closed and said fixed...

[jade copper]

It was never going to be compatible with ACE . ACE is a mod, dog is an official release, it would be against tandcs

[inner urchin]

ah customer service

love em

[scenic cove]

For 'what the heck happened with BI QA the second time around???' see Dedmen's comments in this channel

[jolly lantern]

3 partly, and also to keep in mind that GM devs are professionals with this engine.
GM were professionals.
SOGPF team was huge, set high goals and had a pretty big budget.
CSLA neither I think, don't know about the budget.

[unreal marlin]

I'll add you, but I'm omw to sleep, I'll slide you a guide over later.

[twilit iris]

Yea but ace put out a compatibility for GM, I’m sure they’re making one for this and SOG

[leaden kite]

cheers

[twilit iris]

It’s just not available yet

[turbid summit]

3 but one bailed literally just before release (copter/airplanes guy)

[keen sparrow]

(They didn't for GM officaly, its requested though I think)

[unreal marlin]

Yes they are working on one.

[simple quiver]

i actually had to check who you were, cause there's no commit in cup from you, from what i can tell in the chat logs you talked a lot and didnt do much if anything, so please dont speak for the cup team, thank you

[inner urchin]

i wonder why

[twilit iris]

no? I thought they did some sort of compatibility

[keen sparrow]

Real life reasons IIRC.

[twilit iris]

Maybe that was a fan made one I saw

[inner urchin]

but seriously what was the team thinking before they released? did they know it’d be like this?

not to spread hate

[keen sparrow]

They have one for TFAR but not offical for ACE (there is a fan made one, yes)

[inner urchin]

like seriously

did they have any hindisght to anyone’s knowledge?

[turbid summit]

it doesn't matter, GM was project which was done for LONG time just for the purpose of becoming more than just mod and was made by pro, fulltime

[bold mulch]

when you need money you just release whatever you have

I'm sure they couldn't crowdfund

[scenic cove]

Mondkalb has already described in this channel how GM's current state was only possible because they were able to get paid for it

[inner urchin]

no they would, i would gladly fund this if they just admit they needed the cash

[jolly lantern]

closed beta testers literally warned them. And said the other players won't be as forgiving as the testers if they release it in that state.
They released it in more or less the same state (tons of improvements on specific issues sure, but overall not really)

[turbid summit]

so it was on the top end in quality , while rest of the teams are just community members attempting to deliver more than just mod

[inner urchin]

damn

thats a huge development

[bold mulch]

maybe they've released the wrong version?

[inner urchin]

wouldn’t that be funny?

[turbid summit]

just read this #csla_iron_curtain message

[leaden kite]

I deffo want a post-mortem on this, just to know why it went so wrong

[jolly lantern]

Yes we actually thought that before.
But then, tons of other bugs are actually fixed for real

[turbid summit]

you can clearly tell the CSLA did a lot since last fall

[rough vortex]

What needs work

Terrain optimization (BADLY)
Audio
Weapons
Infantry gear

[shadow glade]

still

[inner urchin]

eh honestly

i think i can let the helo asset ripping thing go

like fuck it

who cares? just make it work

ya know?

[shadow glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825146168437637130/854763966853152788/unknown.png

why is this in the CDLC

[turbid summit]

imho the best solution is Hello Games approach like NMS

[inner urchin]

yeah

honestly

[turbid summit]

work, more work, hard work, fix, improve, optimize, add content

[raven glen]

river

[inner urchin]

wouldnt be a bad idea

[turbid summit]

and let the complainers drown in river of past

[shadow glade]

its legit in the standard game

[inner urchin]

i would totally fucking rebuy the dlc id thats the case from respect alone

[scenic cove]

That's not the problem, the problem is 'why is it literally A3's own Assault Boat renamed'

[bold mulch]

as a big boss, can you confirm whether the cDLC participants can do a crowdfunding campaign for their content or not?

[turbid summit]

can't confirm as i don't remember if we had any legal decision on that

[raven glen]

I'm guessing to keep consistent with class structure or something?

[bold mulch]

understood

[scenic cove]

Then why have one at all, this is IMO worse than 'ported A2 assets'

I've seen people accusing CSLA's RPG-7 of being Apex's... but admittedly I didn't notice or mind because I was too satisfied with it (unlike Apex's) being compatible with the PGO-7 sight

[jolly lantern]

they cannot publicly talk about stuff, except specifically allowed.
I don't deny such a thing being possible, but it would've to be thought about and a decision would need to be made. Cannot answer that before it actually comes up

[shadow glade]

aint that sorta like false advertisment by taking a vanilla vehicle and adding it to the vehicle list

[crystal parrot]

There's a mod for that

[scenic cove]

Not if it's not advertised outside of the game

[inner urchin]

goddamn laws, why havent we embraced anarchy?

[stark turret]

I mean, I vaguely remember that GM also didn't make a lot of traction at the release. But now they released quite a lot of updates. I hope CSLA will do the same since they laid solid ground with this CDLC.

[jolly lantern]

I think SOGPF also had a couple of these, straight copies of vehicles in the beta.
But it was cleaned up, it was simply an oversight, or done for technical reasons.
maybe same here.

aint that sorta like false advertisment by taking a vanilla vehicle and adding it to the vehicle list
is it advertised on steam?

[little gulch]

Can't wait for next Arma anymore, because all those cDLCs don't really extend A3's life, since 1-2, max 3 weeks after release almost all servers are almost empty, once people try it out just out of interest

[scenic cove]

Because you may have a very different definition of anarchy than other people...

[inner urchin]

no im thinking

we release all the nukes

all of it

[bold mulch]

paid content do be like that

[scenic cove]

Isn't that because 'the regulars' go right back to the mods they were already using?

[wispy solar]

All the "paid mod" memes... they leave a long shadow I think

[mortal ice]

Btw as a sidenote, please do feel free to make tickets about things like that on the feedback tracker if you dont like something/have suggestions for ways to improve things 👍

[inner urchin]

yeah

[mortal ice]

Now I'll let you peeps continue without me

[inner urchin]

someone did say they have a mod that fixes that

[urban dew]

Id rather paid maps that are optimised, the only good thing in SOG was camlaonam

[inner urchin]

how ironic

[scenic cove]

Well, this is a game where first-party 'active development' stopped years ago

[shadow glade]

would be cool if there was a Map pack CDLC

[inner urchin]

a good map can give you more hours than any other dlc bi can come up with

[rough vortex]

I'll revise my statement about terrain optimization, hitching gets real bad in some areas of the map but most of it is fine

[inner urchin]

its peoples creativity, and partly war movies that keeps arma ops alive

[urban dew]

DLC maps hell yeah

[turbid summit]

try make repro mission for the worst part(s) maybe something can be done about

[inner urchin]

cup maps whistling and walking by

[wispy solar]

That's Contact and SOG

[bold mulch]

they are not original though

[leaden kite]

it seems fine for me. But I also have a relatively beefy PC and am running enhanced video settings at 1.5k

[inner urchin]

right but everyone needs the dlcs to play on them

that instantly kills it

[stark turret]

It is not even couple. A lot of the SOG assets are various Tanoa/Livonia assets. And from what I've gathered - that is done for compatibility. So person who doesn't have APEX still should be able to play SOG

[shadow glade]

cup maps are old and low quality

[rough vortex]

Not strictly true, Chernarus 2020 is new and a lot of the maps have had tweaks
But you are mostly correct

[inner urchin]

cuz if everyone really needs then or no one gets it, then no one really does get it

[wispy solar]

About 50% of all ARMA 3 owners are estimated to have Contact

[bold mulch]

is Chernarus 2020 part of the CUP Terrains - Maps thing or is it released as a separate thing?

[simple quiver]

separate

[wispy solar]

My 2nd account doesn't because I have it on the first 😅

[inner urchin]

fair, but its not just contact

[turbid summit]

and now imagine if we hoarded all the data and only CDLC had it

[inner urchin]

i actually dont so im kind of a part of the problem but my point is still true in some cases imo

[little gulch]

CUP terrains 2.0

[shadow glade]

Chernarus 2020 is supposed to be like a DayZ SA recreation which is cool

[simple quiver]

the cherno2020 in stable release is still incomplete, the one in dev is almost finished with the northern parts of the map done

[inner urchin]

thats a thing??
(oh its just cherno2020)

[bold mulch]

two maps i've been waiting for. cherno 2020 and cherno redux

but I'm doing offtop now so sorry

[leaden kite]

Come to think of it, chair. Do we have a general ETA?

[inner urchin]

people fucking love cherno apparently

so yeah good job guys

you created an undead monster which might haunt you forever

[jolly lantern]

Yes something like that was the reason.
But these assets are also not advertised as "new content"

[inner urchin]

but its the good kind

[stark turret]

Oh I have no issues with that, I personally think that for the pricetag CSLA is a great deal

Map is very cool, especially the chasm part and western airfield.

[inner urchin]

do you have the optimization problems?

[jolly lantern]

yeah when I saw the terrain today I was amazed

[inner urchin]

or is it just me?

[jolly lantern]

But when I saw the vehicles and their bugs.. not so and then it got worse the longer I looked at it.
That can all be fixed but... Post-release fixes of major bugs.... man.

I mean I also borked things and had to scramble to fix them.
But this is a release of a paid product, not a minor borked update that gets fixed a few days later

[shadow glade]

aren't the aircraft bunkers same as the ones from dayz SA nwaf

[inner urchin]

man this channel is a comedic gold mine

[lilac tulip]

I have not noticed anything (that being said i have my render distance lowered to 8km)

[visual leaf]

It is better than other cDLCs and most mods for sure, not its assets but the layout and how well it fits the cDLCs theme!

[inner urchin]

i run a decently old rig, 1070 and ryzen 5 so thats prob why

[lilac tulip]

I would call it more a dumpster fire in its current state

[raven glen]

What I've seen of the terrain feels like a mix of Chernarus and Livonia.

In such a way, I like the idea that there's no formal campaign, since I often would subconsciously have the knowledge of the A2 and A3 campaigns affect what I make on their respective maps.

[lilac tulip]

i am running a R5 3600 and a 1050Ti

[inner urchin]

oh

huh maybe its my textures

[stark turret]

I have GTX970, so that means performance issues by default 😄

But no, map worked fine for me

[inner urchin]

i can think of several great campaign ideas rn, hard to implement but its something, us army sof dropped behind enemy lines, establish a base, head out and wreck shit like antistasi

[little gulch]

7.5 GB just for the map...

[bold mulch]

I have GTX 1660 and R5 2600x and it works smooth as a baby

[inner urchin]

oh and the legacy assets

ya know idk what to call these anymore

[granite crow]

Very late reply, but yes, I do remember something like that. I'll hit my 20 year anniversary in November 😬

[visual leaf]

Not really, you have devs opening up to clarify stuff and giving their honest opinions on the matter. If anything this channel is showing the best and the worst of the community simultaneously 😉

[inner urchin]

its not ripped ripped but its also not original

so yeah

legacy

[jolly lantern]

Do they? the devs?

[inner urchin]

but hey originality is dead, ask hollywood

[visual leaf]

Yeah, BI devs not CSLA Devs 😅

[rough vortex]

A lot of assets are legacy assets that have been through the car wash and given a very thorough polishing and restoration, along with completely new internal workings.
I feel like that's fair

[stark turret]

I actually feel a strong Celle vibe from it

[inner urchin]

if this was a protest we prob almost lynced dedmen but he also shot some people

basically in anutshell

self defense?

probably

[crystal parrot]

So, Lidl is in the CDLC

[bold mulch]

Lidi*

[crystal parrot]

Is that even legal?

[inner urchin]

no, its lidi

[bold mulch]

and yes it is

[crystal parrot]

Oh, is it?

[jolly lantern]

Well.. I don't think I can say all to much as I'm not involved in CSLA besides the launcher integration and minor stuff.
I would wish for the CSLA devs to talk more but for one they are only getting shit on by everyone, and their own discord is on fire so..

[crystal parrot]

I read Lidl haha

[bold iron]

They've been basically bullied everywhere, today.

[bold mulch]

SunCZu was about to write something some time ago but I guess he gave up

[inner urchin]

“their own discord is on fire” yeah sounds like discord, they need to lock that shit down

[visual leaf]

Yeah they probably have their hands full dealing with their own Discord and also fixing bugs 😆

[inner urchin]

or ask for mod support from here

[bold iron]

Bullied? Raked over hot coals, more like.

[inner urchin]

honestly they can just leave it to burn

fuck it, just het back to work, ya know?

turn off all invites

[bold mulch]

this is typical game dev

they'll make a 1-day patch

then release a statement

[rough vortex]

Their own discord is not on fire anymore, at least english version

[inner urchin]

will they?

[bold mulch]

and we'll keep on going

yeah, probably

[inner urchin]

again, we’d probably go back to mods in 2 weeks

2 months tops

somewhere in between

[bold mulch]

I am the only one person in my unit who bought that DLC so I guess we didn't even leave the mods

[urban dew]

idk why youd leave mods anyway

cdlc just adds onto your core mods

[little gulch]

Slowmode for this section maybe?

[stark turret]

It is actually very sad that people are so spoiled nowadays. People mix up all sorts of knowledge about game design, completely mission amount of effort put behind some work. I wish CSLA devs will sort it out eventually and won't give up.

[inner urchin]

mate you should’ve been here 3 hours ago

[urban dew]

only issue is just QC stuff, BI shouldve been more thorough

[inner urchin]

dude trust me

1 guy was equally shocked

search up message by dedmen, the couple of last ones

[jolly lantern]

Don't generalize BI.
I'm just one dude, and most of my statements are me speaking, not my company.
I don't actually know what was going on behind the scenes with QA

[inner urchin]

ok sowwy

ok 1 person was equally shocked

[bold iron]

And now I can't remove the comical image of Dedmen being a singular, monolithic entity known as BI.

[inner urchin]

yes

he is now

this gentlemen

is how a religion starts

[fading snow]

No gentlemen allowed... only Dedmen

In some cases also called Heldmen

[sudden roost]

Dedmen tell no tales...

[lilac tulip]

... except for the tales of Dedmen

[stark turret]

BI works as publisher in that case from what I gathered. And that is completely different can of worms. There is a great example of similar situation - Cyberpunk release. And to briefly touch QA - there are different scales for different companies. Some bugs may be instant redlight, while performance issues can be acceptable and be dealt later.

[visual leaf]

Imagine if BI themselves come out in a few hours with the following statement: "In light of the recent events, and the state of the latest cDLC, we are inclined to compensate not only the buyers but also our loyal community and so anyone who has bought the cDLC will be able to get another cDLC of their choosing (50% discount on SOG) on us and CSLA will become a beta now and free for anyone in a year from now when hopefully all issues are resolved, this is also our gift considering the cDLC portraits our homeland and we want all our players to be able to experience it in its fullest, sincerely yours, BOHE*** INTER*****".

[inner urchin]

ha

[jolly lantern]

free for anyone in a year from now when hopefully all issues are resolved
You can either buy a broken mess now, or get a fixed mess for free in a year
not a good decision business wise..

[inner urchin]

funny

[urban dew]

yes they are publishers for cdlc but it is still their own game and engine, dunno man bohemia have been pretty disappointing lately

[inner urchin]

no mans sky’s price guadrupled since post released

even 5-upled?

its back up to 60 usd again, but 40 now cuz its old

i think

[rough vortex]

I find it unlikely that CSLA will be price hiked without a big injection of new content

[visual leaf]

But the fake statement didn't say that! It said: You can pay now for a Beta, experience the mess early but you get GM for free or 50% discount on SOG

[inner urchin]

and thats what happened to nms

dude

just gib refunds

holy shit XD

like seriously gm is 3 times the price of csla

[rough vortex]

Dude
Chill thy tits and cut a small part-time team a break

[visual leaf]

The CSLA devs also have to eat my friend!

[inner urchin]

i do too, well only for ass

[visual leaf]

Just compensate the players somehow

[inner urchin]

i dont think the money spent on csla is enough to compensate for discounts on any dlc

but i think if bi wants to do it

[lilac tulip]

refund

[inner urchin]

giv refunds, from their pocket

and devs get to eat

and devs will have to actually make it good

or idk they break contract,

idfk

[sudden roost]

Guys, can we delete this whole chat please and banish it in the abyss of hell?

This all has gotten extremely crappy and poor

[visual leaf]

Devs have to eat!

[wispy solar]

And rather doubtful if possible, because SOG is not made by BI

[lilac tulip]

the 30% that goes to steam or the unknown % from those 60% that is split between BI and CSLA studio <

[stark turret]

Publishing is quite far away from anything related with the engine and even the game itself.

[shy chasm]

I mean... Devs have already probably been paid, you're just taking money from BI and then the CSLA studio.

If you get a refund.

I'd rather not take away money from hopes of A4.

[visual leaf]

Yeah so BI has to give up part of their revenue while the SOG team still get 100% of their part

[shy chasm]

^

[jolly lantern]

BI could absorb the money on their own accord. but... oof no thats pretty not cool

[inner urchin]

bis is a multimillion dollar studio

true they need like lots of money to run shit

but isfk

[raven glen]

just let tencent absorb it lol

[inner urchin]

loans?

idk anymoreee

[shy chasm]

You say that like CDProjectRed isn't still feeling the cyberpunk 2077 pushback.

[visual leaf]

That would mean less for BIS devs too!? 😅

[wispy solar]

SOG team would not like their product discounted suddenly for no reason related to them

[visual leaf]

Not a bad idea really!

[lilac tulip]

I feel like there was way too much pressure on the dev team from this being a CDLC. It should have stayed as a mod. If they would have required funding, i think a crowdfunding project could have been sufficient. But since that ship has sailed and i do not have a time machine, i just have to make due with it being a CDLC.

[wispy solar]

And from similar discussions concerning DCS I recall the devs there said it's outright impossible... depends on contracts and such

[inner urchin]

no they’d buff csat to epic proportions

[raven glen]

"official" mod like the ADR-97 weapon pack?

[visual leaf]

We can always mod that back to "not OP" levels

[inner urchin]

ah yes

mod saves the day

again

but no

never

[jolly lantern]

i think a crowdfunding project could have been sufficient
from experience, not really.
Arma players prefer getting free stuff in general, unless they are forced to pay

[lilac tulip]

wdym ? the CSLA mod was in development long before BI got involved

[inner urchin]

the steam workshop and armaholic

beautiful isnt it?

well armaholic isnt…not now atleast

still

[raven glen]

oh interesting to know, I haven't been following the development too closely, just am your typical arma player/enthusiast

[stark turret]

Not only Arma players. Crowdfunding of a mod is almost impossible unless it is a total conversion like Skywind or similar.

[lilac tulip]

http://csla-studio.blogspot.com/

[visual leaf]

I would crowdfund anything you do in regards to A3 as long as it is meaningful 😉 Just don't know if your current BI contract allows you for that thou

[jolly lantern]

I need time, not money ^^

[stark turret]

Also it may be against the company policies and license.

[sudden roost]

Imma head out for now and hope that I don't get put in the Arkham asylum after reading all this chat. Have a good one, guys!

[inner urchin]

ok with money we can invent a time machine and get more time!

[lilac tulip]

but isn't time money ?

[keen sparrow]

Same, after 10 Hours of watching this channel I need sleep...

[inner urchin]

-smashes head into a wall-

[jolly lantern]

we're getting too offtopic ._.

I think everything CSLA is said now and we can go to bed

[inner urchin]

oke

yep

aight imma take a nap and head to class cuz no time

and yes

you’re right

we do need time

all of us

we’ll heal

we’ll heal…

[orchid tide]

I think everything CSLA is said now and we can go to bed fix a few more bugs in arma 😉

[lilac tulip]

hopefully CSLA will heal too

[wispy solar]

How the devs will handle it medium term will be key

[stark turret]

Lets all appreciate CSLA devs not making a viewports in some vehicles as PIP screens 😄

[jolly lantern]

People who hate it will give up and go away.
People who like it will stay.
End result, positive climate

[lilac tulip]

I meant more expand and develop like GM did
But yeah also that

[crystal parrot]

It's the only way of doing viewports in some cases, but yeah

[jolly lantern]

CSLA feels like a love project. Just like GM.
Don't expect them to stop anytime soon

[raven glen]

OT but the SOG viewports on the tanks are all wack last time I tried. looks like a pip thing now that its mentioned

[jolly lantern]

Here have a easter egg (there are more)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411072628372144129/854768838662422588/Arma3_x64_2021-06-16_18-06-00.png

[stark turret]

I know where it is! 😄

That whole place is one massive easter egg

[rough vortex]

In case anyone is worried about the reviews, GM had awful reviews on launch and it's still "mixed" even recently. Yet it has a good reputation among the more "regular" community
Give it time

[wispy solar]

That's what I'm worried of - GM is underutilized by the general ARMA community for that reason

[rough vortex]

Anybody who's been a part of the Arma community for more than a few months should know by now that steam reviews are meaningless :p

I think GM's price is more the barrier when it comes to utilization. Once CSLA gets more love, that lower price will help it out in the long run

[inner wren]

Yeah I agree

I feel like GM is relatively overpriced but maybe that's just me

I bought it but I can't convince my friends to get it

[rough vortex]

"More than $20? Idk..."
"Only $12, sure, i'll give it a try"

[inner wren]

Exactly

[rough vortex]

Also CSLA is so far the only place I can go to get well-done 80s/90s delta force style body armor right now. Even with all the other gripes about infantry gear it has already tickled my biases just so on that front c:

[wispy solar]

I guess you discovered why people buy DLC/install mods... I basically just buy everything if it says "ARMA" 😅

[rough vortex]

There's also a version with just the belt and pistol
I CAN FINALLY HAVE COPS WEARING PLAIN BODY ARMOR WITH A GUN HOLSTER WOOOOOO

[wispy solar]

At first I'm in the information discover phase though, looking for reasons to buy, I mean besides the map and the cool cold war vehicles...

[inner wren]

That's fair. I was really looking forward to more jets personally so I'm a tad let down

[rough vortex]

They said multiple times on their discord that the jets weren't gonna be a part of the initial release. They also weren't part of any promo material from after it was announced as a creator DLC
They'll show up at some point

[urban dew]

it was on their dev blog

[south sonnet]

Also because the setting doesn't appeal to the America-centric fanbase.

[wispy solar]

Could it boil down to better communication aka expectations management 🤔

[inner wren]

I hadn't seen that. I had seen screenshots of csla jets and we talked about them in the discord

[rough vortex]

BI as a publisher really could've supported CSLA Studio better. So far it seems like the teams are mostly on their own for marketing

[wispy solar]

Is ARMA community US-centric? 😮

[rough vortex]

Cold War is a turbo-underappreciated setting for games in general

[wispy solar]

Wargame and DCS 😂

Previous ARMA

[inner wren]

It's a cool setting but there are so many cold war games

[rough vortex]

Okay, lemme revise
Cold War is a really under-appreciated setting for shooters

[wispy solar]

When we still had Cold War, quite a few games had a Cold War setting!

[rough vortex]

lol

[wispy solar]

or, slightly futuristic

like your multirole jet & one man commando team launches from orbit (Raid over Moscow)

[inner wren]

I want a special forces oriented cdlc

[south sonnet]

To me it seems that way, largely as a result of the US's strong position as a cultural distributor with Hollywood and classics like Top Gun, as well as being one of the largest producers of military equipment.

[wispy solar]

That would be SOG

[inner wren]

Fair

[rough vortex]

SOG is SF focused to a point of annoyance for me

[inner wren]

But more modern

[rough vortex]

Apex campaign?

[inner wren]

I was thinking more of black hawk down

[rough vortex]

That's less a commando action and more your typical high-intensity urban warfare shit

[near cloud]

i cant seem to see any of the single player missions for the new dlc?

[inner wren]

D boys tho

[teal coyote]

i heard that this DLC is not as good as the other DLC's, i would like to know if there is any intention to release updates to fix the problems?

[near cloud]

or am i just being dense?

[rough vortex]

Yes, and reviewers are overreacting
Short version

[teal coyote]

im sure they are but i was rather let down with SOG but 😦

[wispy solar]

We're still waiting for the smoke after the initial big explosion 😂

[wispy solar]

you were expecting something different?

[inner wren]

Still getting through the Shockwave really

[teal coyote]

i let my self down by expecting that SOG would be on the same quality as GM

[near cloud]

...is it not?

[timid quartz]

No campaign, 9 SP missions :)

[teal coyote]

SOG has a great map but and good weapons

[thick parcel]

It's all debatable

[rough vortex]

@teal coyote If GM is your benchmark then personally I can't endorse CSLA in its current state but it's not nearly as bad as people say it is. Wait till later

[thick parcel]

I'm not a fan of the SOG map at all

Cluttered and with terrible performance imo

[rough vortex]

SOG map needs optimization

[timid quartz]

If you dont mind going back 5-8 years in the graphical department

[rough vortex]

Superficial crap

Nobody plays arma for the graphics

[little gulch]

It doesn't. It's the game engine that is limiting

[thick parcel]

That's like, your subjective opinion, man

[teal coyote]

i picked up arma in 2019 and i really try to avoid mods likt cups and RHS

[near cloud]

i cant find them. 😦

oh wait im an nonce

[thick parcel]

It super does

[near cloud]

ignore me.

[heavy storm]

yes and no. standard has risen and GM showed whats possible.

i wont be bothered to play A2 quality anymore

[wispy solar]

Obviously I don't play ARMA for graphics and usually don't hunt visual mods... but I was amazed how nice the vehicles look in GM. But it's also the functionality and feels.

[timid quartz]

It's 2021, not 2013 anymore

[rough vortex]

This is way ahead of Arma 2 quality
People forget just how bad Arma 2 is

[near cloud]

i think to call it literally arma 2 quality is a bit of an over statement

[timid quartz]

Look at the motorbike for me rq

Or the Mi-17 which model we have exactly in CUP rn

Or the sounds of the guns

[heavy storm]

its not A2 quality in every aspect but too much reminiscence

[timid quartz]

This message is not anti-CUP 🙏

[turbid summit]

CSLA servers (official)

Capture & Hold 
85.190.150.213:2402
Sector Control
85.190.150.213:2502
Endgame
85.190.155.59:2502
85.190.158.73:2502
Warlords
85.190.155.169:2302
85.190.155.169:2402
85.190.155.169:2502
COOP
85.190.150.106:2202
128.0.113.134:2202
37.10.126.71:2202
109.230.208.231:2202
Anarchy
85.190.150.106:2702
128.0.113.134:2702
37.10.126.71:2702
109.230.208.231:2702
Zeus
185.251.226.74:2302
85.190.155.166:2502
85.190.158.74:2502
Combat Patrol
185.251.226.74:2402
185.251.226.74:2502

[timid quartz]

The US uniforms just don't look good, idk what you want me to say?

[upper galleon]

it just shows too much age. The weapons are all set up like Arma 3 Alpha/Beta weapons too, in that the zoom is wrong when you aim. And the lack of magazine wells for any of the guns

[supple anvil]

the map is pretty good but everything else is very 50/50 with its quality but i don’t mind cause it’s only 11 bucks on sale and 12 originally, i’ve spent more at chick-fil-a lol

[thick parcel]

Theres no mag proxies?

[near cloud]

m16 sound is bad.

:/

[rough vortex]

@timid quartz It was a team of four people with full time jobs elsewhere working on this as a passion project with limited time available. It's not like SOG which was a massive effort with a lot of phoned in help, or GM where the team could work full time on it. It's also NEARLY HALF the price of the other two creator DLCs and offers way more content than a standard arma 3 DLC for barely any more price
Y'all need to pull your heads out of your asses and give these guys a bit of a break

[timid quartz]

Don't make me @ Mondkalb, they had real jobs on the side too?

[near cloud]

i mean i get it but theyre entitled to their opinion\

[timid quartz]

He literally said that, TODAY

[near cloud]

im over all satisfied with the map for the cost of a decent lunch

but the points against it are pretty fair too as far as i can tell

[supple anvil]

for real though that terrain is very nice

[near cloud]

like, there's plenty of room for this to not be an argument and both sides of the coin to be correct. I dont get the controversy tbh

[timid quartz]

I think GM team also said the ability to make a CDLC pushed them to work harder and do more than what they would've done for a mod.

Yes. Once we were signed on for official content it made it a lot easier to justify the extra hours after the dayjob to work on a mod. Especially when friends and family time had to be cut back for this to happen.

From Mond today^

[supple anvil]

trueee

[heavy storm]

Just dont encourage BI to sell quality like this in the future, i dont care if community made or not 😅

[near cloud]

every time you buy something your casting a vote for that item

if youo dont like it dont buy and cast that vote

[timid quartz]

Nobody stopped the CSLA devs from "phoning" in help to fix their assets. They straight up didnt want any "free" help that I personally saw people offer them

[near cloud]

but sometimes what we vote for doesn't win.

[timid quartz]

People offered to help them make assets, for free, they never took them up on the offers lmao

[turbid summit]

free assets help often end you with the stolen stuff infestation problem ...

it's way more widespread problem , affects mods, total conversions and even quite some indie games

[timid quartz]

Not these particular people who were renowned mod makers, not talking what happened to IFA here

[turbid summit]

there are renowned 'sellers' who sold stolen stuff to more than 20 official projects, including those who already sell on steam

[fading snow]

Now that would have been a scandal

[timid quartz]

Implying the current 20% isnt kind of a scandal

[turbid summit]

there already were some ... like those around certain RTS games assets

it's just that there is lack of skilled journalists to actually cover this cause it needs ... the skill and expertise and lot of time

ain't much of clickbait when you have oh this xyz took abc from efg and sold it to dozen indies and infested multiple asset stores with that

[fading snow]

I'm sure it'll settle pretty quick.
The "Toxic" haters will get tired of hating and be gone in a few days, weeks.
The guys who give actual constructive and objective feedback will stay same as the ones who really like CSLA.

Just give it a bit and it'll settle down until some fancy games reporter decides to jump in on the hate and refuel everything...

[echo sluice]

Honestly this kind of release does hurt rep, wonder if other CDLCs will be hurt like this

[rough vortex]

[echo sluice]

I don’t expect over analyzing releases to disappear

[near cloud]

having a lot of fun assaulting this town rn in the first sp mission tbh

[wispy solar]

We need more showcasing of that nice terrain the coming weeks

[supple anvil]

yeah

[fading snow]

It defo made me question BI for their decision to release it in it's current state but like dwarden also said earlier then the files would just be lying around with no use.
12€ Honestly is not that much

[supple anvil]

that terrain was the selling point for me honestly, some of the vics was just a plus, not too insanely upset given that it was only 12 bucks, hardly as much as my lunch lmao

am looking forward to updates

[rough vortex]

Everyone just needs to chill and look everything over in detail. Lots of knee-jerk reactions, and everyone needs to remember the current asking price and consider the value proposition, and the fact that this is a passion project which almost certainly will see updates and improvements

[fading snow]

Yeah I think updates could improve the situation we have rn. But obviously that'll take a lot of time

[rough vortex]

Globmob and SOG are a high bar to meet. This is almost half the price of those, at least for now
And at least IMO it's definitely more than half of what they are

[woeful timber]

I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt rn, I'll take a look deeper when the dust has settled

[shadow glade]

its dead on arrival

just give up

[upper galleon]

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I did take a pretty good detailed look at the content, and it's gonna need a huge rework for me to consider re-purchasing. The quality of the assets just isn't there compared to other DLCs or even mods, and on top of that a lot of assets have very poor implementation, config-wise and otherwise

[turbid summit]

people said same about Arma 3, GM and SOG 🙂 ... so opinion and mileage may vary

[fading snow]

It's always best to make up your own mind if you really are interested in the CDLC. Expect a lot of people to just jump with the hate even though they haven't actually done anything or seen much with the CDLC

[shadow glade]

no not really

[rough vortex]

Oh yes really

[shadow glade]

nop

[supple anvil]

I really remember this back with GM

[shadow glade]

this is on a whole diffrent level

[fading snow]

Your either ignorant or have been sleeping during GM release

[turbid summit]

google some early reviews about Arma 3 (beta and full release) ...

[rough vortex]

It's also priced on a whole different level

[shadow glade]

i still dont like GM eitherway

[near cloud]

lol people hated a3 on release

[inner jackal]

The pack of cigarettes i have already smoked today cost more than this cDLC 😉

[shadow glade]

personal preference reasons

[rough vortex]

I'll say again what I've said like six times now:

Solid base on the vehicles and map, needs more work elsewhere, buy now if you want to support, wait for buy if you're on the fence

[supple anvil]

lol

[wispy solar]

Is there a good chronicle/history of early ARMA3 online?

eg. how the community feels were at the time and what were the expectations and so

I think I joined the fray in the beginning of 2017, that's already a while back

[supple anvil]

oh jeez that’d be something

[wispy solar]

I'm the "New guy. Didn't even play OFP so knows nothing."

[rough vortex]

I distinctly remember everyone I played with in pubs loving Arma 3 beta and a lot of loud voices saying "lol I'm just gonna play Arma 2 which has full support already and a relevant setting"

[wispy solar]

Just as I'd imagine an alleged ARMA 4 launch to be. We have a decade of content on top of the platform

[inner jackal]

Don't know of a history like that but I stayed on ARMA 2 until 2015 🤣

[supple anvil]

2015 was when i got into arma 3 lol

[wispy solar]

I think ARMA appeared on my radar around 2010 or 2011 or so

[heavy storm]

i for one didnt play A2 after A3 release but i wasnt in a unit back then

[wispy solar]

Nobody informed me it's first person strategy though...

[fading snow]

Let's try and keep on topic guys

[inner jackal]

Bought OFP at the 57th Street Circuit City store in 2001. Still remember doing that

[turbid summit]

and also 3rd person strategy with High Command 😉

[inner jackal]

Oops. Sorry

[rough vortex]

Yeah Grahame stay on topic lol

[wispy solar]

I still don't understand what that feature is 😅

what channel should we move to?

[rough vortex]

I never understood squad command to begin with, let alone high command lol

[turbid summit]

HC is something i miss from Arma 3 but it was too script limited so it's just A2OA (unless someone ported it as mod)

[inner jackal]

Tbh, a little side chat and relaxing is what this channel needs right now

[fading snow]

Well anyway this has been a real Rollercoaster in here today guys.
Have a good night and or good day. gonna try and get some shut eye

[inner jackal]

Night

[turbid summit]

anyway, CSLA servers are running so if there is problem ping in #arma3_official_servers or dm me ...

[rough vortex]

Honestly, limited Zeus more or less replaces high command IMO, especially if there's a way to restrict it to map
CSLA definitely needs work, but the price reflects that so I'm not gonna gripe too hard especially when CSLA Studio has already alluded to significant post-release support

[plush hedge]

High Command exists in vanilla Arma 3 :U I've made missions with it before. hvymtal is right though, restricted Zeus is the better command tool these days, more effort to set up though

[turbid summit]

i was under impression some of the HC elements didn't survive so the A3 one isn't all what was in A2OA

but i don't remember what part

seen too many bugs and is in need of another coffee ☕

[plush hedge]

That could be true, I don't know what the A2 HC was like

The one thing I wish for Zeus as a HC replacement, is a pre-packaged tactical command setup that restricts the camera to the Zeus unit's vicinity, locks out all the editing etc. in one editor thing instead of having to script camera restrictions and all that stuff. I mean I can do it on my own, and have, but it could be used more if it was more convenient

[wispy solar]

you can order bots around the map anyway in ARMA3

[turbid summit]

you can always try to attract DD and KK attention in #zeus_discussion 😉

[plush hedge]

oh, I'm not brave enough to ping developers in the middle of the night. I'll just make a FT ticket at some point

[turbid summit]

ye i wasn't suggesting to do that right now 🤣

[wispy solar]

Somebody needs to do a helicopter tour of the terrain

[raven glen]

Which jets have you seen images of? This has my interest cause its the perfect time period for a fourth gen brawl that never happened

[inner jackal]

Before the cDLC was announced we saw the F-5, Mig-29 and L-39

[inner wren]

What he said

[severe willow]

give or take

i want an unbiased opinion

is CSLA IC worth it

[inner jackal]

I think so yes. The map is excellent, the new vehicles are very good, there are things that need polishing and a few things that need fixing. Cost me less than a pack of cigs that I have smoked already

[scenic cove]

afaik even vanilla HC is more advanced than A2OA's, albeit not by much

... I'm aghast at reading this claim

[raven glen]

Looks like Firewill's nato jets still reign supreme as the only ones of their kind/quality. At least I can use the AIM-7 in a proper setting, along with Pook's jets looking good too

[inner jackal]

Yeah, Firewill and Pooks is what I am looking at myself for use with GM and ČSLA

I think he's joking 😉

[scenic cove]

Does Zeus support chain-of-command? Not that I could ever figure out how to set this up for High Command, even after seeing what to type in, mainly because I couldn't figure out whether the 'middle' layer of command (squad level, between me as Commander/'platoon level' and Subordinate/'fire team level') was supposed to be a Commander module or a Subordinate module... 😬

Okay, so what I'm reading is that that decision was made years ago... unfortunate

[raven glen]

aww an F-5 would have been neat even if not used directly by the US.

[scenic cove]

Especially when GM has a bunch of 'not used by any current faction' weapons

plus it would have made CSLA a bit more... 'Strangereal friendly' 😆

That's the spirit!

[inner jackal]

Well a US F-5 wouldn't make sense unless the USAF had to surge its three Aggressor squadons, one of which admittedly was in the UK

And which if committed on the Central Front would probably have supported NORTHAG

[scenic cove]

I didn't say anything about US F-5s...

[feral trellis]

Whenever I go to put down a squad it crashes my game

[inner jackal]

I know. That s what CSLA originally had. Wasn't responding to you - should have been clearer 😃

[crisp comet]

This DLC looks so good. I was flying a heli with 4km view distance and had 70 FPS. Map is very optimised. Some screenshots.
https://ibb.co/jrpz6VR
https://ibb.co/h1X98KK

And the buildings are enterable and have furniture.

[feral trellis]

Whenever I go to put down a squad it crashes my game any help?

[crisp comet]

Verify your game files. Right click Arma 3 in Steam.

[wispy solar]

There's a gameplay vid on youtube and the village looks fairly good

[crisp comet]

Click properties, then local files.

[scenic cove]

The terrain may be good, that was an early consensus even while people were complaining about the rest of the CDLC... how are you feeling about the guns/gear/vehicles though?

[crisp comet]

Good. Helis are smooth to fly and the tanks are very accurate and good. I like the dual 20mm AA gun. I wonder if the map is indexed for Alive mod. I just wish it had a faction specific arsenal function like RHS where you can have a US only arsenal.

I love the M1 turbine sound.

[raven glen]

^

[scenic cove]

Hmmm, so 'despite the visuals' the configuration thereof ('vehicle stats' so to speak) feel good?

[wispy solar]

It's nice to hear actual player reports 😅

[crisp comet]

Yes. Nothing wrong with visuals actually, the FPS is very high, so it is way better than Livonia and Tanoa. Despite massive forests.

[scenic cove]

I mean the assets, not Gabreta

[crisp comet]

Enterable buildings are very nice. And helicopters with rocket pods. Although GM DLC has a crop sprayer.

[wispy solar]

Lovely how "nice visuals" is interpreted to mean good FPS. No offense (to ARMA or person) just goes to show how different frames of mind people can be in 😉

I'm starting to get hyped again 🙂

[scenic cove]

It's interesting to see 'A2 ports!' versus 'but the framerates are actually good!' going on here when it comes to the vehicle

Whereas when I tried this I just ran into 'there's some quizzical design decisions going on here'

[wispy solar]

I want functionality and gameplay. Couldn't really care much if you have digital camo or not 🤔

[rough vortex]

Er ma gerd all of the vehicles have different icons for the turret position indicator

THAT'S AWESOME

[crisp comet]

You can turn out from a armoured veh and use an RPG.

[rough vortex]

LAV-25 Dragon gang

[crisp comet]

Plus I think it has NV scopes.

[raven glen]

Anpvs 5 too to spice up your standard nvg appearance.

Just if it was a little more grainy though given its a gen 2

So it seems what is lacking in visuals, you get some neat gameplay options

You can open and close the blackhawk doors for example. Still weird BI has a ghosthawk door anim but no menu option

[willow frigate]

I read all the bad comments about the assets. But does anyone have a link to an overview about the ingame map itself? I would like to see if that is worthy of purchase alone.

[scenic cove]

Rimmy's streaming it right now on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/rimmy

As of this message it's currently overviewing/focusing on the terrain

[scenic cove]

Trivia note: Had CSLA Studio gone ahead and depicted the MiG-21 in this CDLC -- and if they do in the future -- then it'll be the only publicly available MiG-21 in A3 AFAIK EDIT: besides the Unsung MiG-21bis

[frigid gorge]

Unsung has a MiG-21

[scenic cove]

Huh, any variants?

I know that R0adkill had the only publicly-available-in-English standalone one but took it down years ago

... huh, I just learned from the above stream that CSLA Iron Curtain has included dragging-of-downed-bodies!

[frigid gorge]

MiG-21Bis in Unsung, without pylon support I believe

[scenic cove]

Ahhh ok, thanks

GM+CSLA? Unclear at this time 🤔

We do know however that SOG+CSLA isn't a perfect combo... selecting the latter's M16+M203 in Virtual Arsenal while both CDLCs are loaded will cause a CTD (confirmed by a CSLA dev)

[frigid gorge]

That isn't related to SOG

You crash without SOG loaded

[crisp comet]

You can place a m67 grenade on a stick to make a AP mine. And it has the M163 VADS m113 vehicle with 20mm vulcan. So goodbye roadblocks or trucks or anything.

[short vortex]

The issue with m203 crashing when sog is loaded alongside csla seems to have been resolved on our side. A hotfix is sure to bring it to stable once it's tested and approved.

[frigid gorge]

It's not only SOG

Happened to me and others with GM too

Eitherway hopefully that fixes the other possible crashes too

[short vortex]

The fix should apply to all the m203 problems.

[inner urchin]

oh hey

hey sun out of topic but, you uhm

you alright man?

[short vortex]

Hey there. I tend to think so, why? 😃

[inner urchin]

ah nothing, we (atleast i) are concerned, cheers to a bright future of csla, good luck!

[frigid gorge]

BASED pin

[stray bridge]

I believe the best solution would be to take this CDLC off the market

[hollow jasper]

ehhh a promise of an overhaul update would be better, no need to take it off steam

czech vehicles look great, just apply same effort into everything else

[willow frigate]

I agree to NOT take it off market. When ARMA 3 Alpha came out, it was worst and cost more. The map looks very good. But I have to wait for a sale to pick it up. The rest of the content is meh for me, at this stage, as I have everything plus mods.

[hollow jasper]

To take it off the market?

[willow frigate]

No, to NOT take it off market. I clarified my comment.

[hollow jasper]

ah

[stray bridge]

They have been doing their project for 10 years, and they will never dramatically improve anything. Don't be so naive.

[frigid gorge]

They haven't been doing their project for 10 years, don't believe everything you see from random sources. Don't be so naive.

[midnight briar]

but they have

A2 CSLA was a thing

there are screenshots on their website of some of the vehicles from like 2009

[frigid gorge]

Not the same project, through, since it's a different game

[midnight briar]

it is the same assets so yeah it kinda is the same project

[stray bridge]

Textures, models do not correspond to the quality of the game and time

[frigid gorge]

I don't know when they started for ArmA 3, but I suspect they picked up the phase alot when the CDLC was announced as a CDLC, which is 2-3 years ago I believe

[midnight briar]

they started on the A3 version basically when A3 came out

[frigid gorge]

Some do, some don't, all about what you're willing to focus on

[keen sparrow]

IIRC earlier than that, but not as a cDLC.

[midnight briar]

looking at CSLA screenshots from like 2009 and most of it honestly looks about the same as what is in the CDLC

[stray bridge]

They ported a lot of things

https://sun9-35.userapi.com/impg/AaCi7yS3UJDcDUNlZkIv0SsuZm-YwjYIjHLiGw/k6Jq53I-3IA.jpg?size=1280x720&quality=96&sign=b53139215fb82b355bdec05677edc75d&type=album

[shadow glade]

The cdlc is pook's mods level of detail

[stray bridge]

Dshk

[midnight briar]

that's giving pook too much credit

have you looked at pook assets?

[shadow glade]

Ik im just overdramatizing

[midnight briar]

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-awXEsFe_WOU/WUv8x4Kaj7I/AAAAAAAAE3c/SyCHtkLdXV4v5xaOH7ggE4t23mr2_oZqgCLcBGAs/s1600/csla_v104_150909_01.jpg
this is from 2010

and it looks about the same in the CDLC from what I can see

[shadow glade]

Eitherway a old mod like russia 2035 has alot more content n detail

[hollow jasper]

they delayed the release of the CDLC to improve quality, if it wasnt then we would've had even more arma 2 looking assets but there still is wonkyness

[frigid gorge]

Almost every mod and 2/3 CDLC have "ported content"

[frigid gorge]

This looks nothing like the one ingame right now

[midnight briar]

the fact that it's ported isn't the issue

the issue is not that it's ported, but not brough up to the A3 quality standards

[frigid gorge]

It is to many other people

[midnight briar]

it is what?

[frigid gorge]

this

Most of the crying is just because "ported bad"

[stray bridge]

https://sun9-30.userapi.com/impg/V3qYvSlXB6FDeA9QsQo-5MGVZ_ASyriwiqel9w/QrBuuPHo-N4.jpg?size=1280x720&quality=96&sign=3e7a7077948c97d2b438517d44c353d2&type=album

[frigid gorge]

How is this picture related to what I said?

[shadow glade]

This dlc shouldn't have been approved at all since it doesn't offer anything new to the game US and Chezh forces is something we already saw

[stray bridge]

This DSHK of the OFP level

[frigid gorge]

This convo was already had yesterday, some new faces - some old faces, same hate train

[midnight briar]

the dshk is just the arma 2 model

[frigid gorge]

You can continue focusing on the bad parts, while ignoring that the good parts exist

If they are not worth 10$ for you - don't pay 10$

[midnight briar]

but the bad parts are still there

[frigid gorge]

That simple

So what? The bad parts don't stop me from enjoying the good ones

It's not like there is a 1 mod/DLC limit

[shadow glade]

What will you exactly enjoy

[frigid gorge]

I can load some random M16 mod to replace their M16, DHI to replace their uniforms, and RHS to complete the helis, planes, and BMP selection

[stray bridge]

This DLS spoils the overall reputation of the game as a whole

[midnight briar]

but it's a dlc, it's paid content, it shouldn't have to rely on other mods to make it good

[stray bridge]

And here it does not matter how much and what it costs in money

[frigid gorge]

It's not

[midnight briar]

"oh yeah you spent on this money but just download this, this and this to make it actually good"

if it costs money it should be able to hold its own

[frigid gorge]

Again, it's up to you if its worht it for you

If you want the whole product to be worth it - thats on you

The part of the product that I enjoy justifies the 10$ I spent on it

[dense jolt]

you can vote with your wallet

[frigid gorge]

My meal I had after buying CSLA costed more

[dense jolt]

not sure where the drama is

[shadow glade]

In reality for a cdlc that's more of an ported mod should probably not even cost 1€

[stark turret]

Sound like Arma 3 in general. Otherwise why most of Arma units use massive modpacks.

[stray bridge]

I'm a fan of BIS, I'm a fan of Arma 3, I'm very sorry that my favorite developers allowed THIS in my game

[frigid gorge]

It's not your game through)

It's theirs

[stray bridge]

This was not done by disabled children to feel sorry for them

[frigid gorge]

Something this group of people seems to share in common three times now.. making dedmen to start typing))

aka - no need to insult people because you don't like their pixels

[jolly lantern]

I'm looking into the M203 crash now.
Even if you have a fix, game optimally shouldn't crash even if you bork something

[dense jolt]

how much would you pay for a small cDLC made from scratch featuring say PMC vehicles (a 2-3 of pimped up offroaders/offlanders), 3-5 new uniforms/vests/headger + 5-10 new weapons + accesories?

[stark turret]

Possibly complete abundance of critical thinking, but I might be wrong. If CSLA is not you cup of tea - don't buy it, it will not interfere with the game itself. But that concept may be hard to grasp for some people.

[frigid gorge]

Since people experienced it when any other CDLC was loaded, not only PF

Could it be related?

[dense jolt]

if you are willing to pay 1$ for a cDLC featuring an entire island

[frigid gorge]

Why you tellin me that? I loved the CDLC, worth every $

[stray bridge]

I paid for the SOG. For the real work, I was happy and received a lot of new content made from scratch. It's worth the money. CSLA is a shame, it's just a shame.

[dense jolt]

refund it

[stark turret]

You were talking about common thing about people hating on CSLA, I just assumed what it might be 🙂

[wanton eagle]

Because apparently it "besmirches armas rep" or something. I dunno, just what another user has written.

[frigid gorge]

ah, misunderstood you, mb)

[midnight briar]

it does in the eyes of a lot people though, that's the problem

[dense jolt]

while i agree that cDLCs are suppose to go through some more strict QA process, you do not need to buy every cDLC that is released

[midnight briar]

SOG helped the idea of CDLC, this hurts it

[dense jolt]

you still can use mods that are free for the time being

[stark turret]

Oh, I said it yesterday - GM was also not taken very well at the start. And look where it is now.

[midnight briar]

because now people can rightfully assume that all CDLCs are going to have recycled old content

[frigid gorge]

You truly believe that people where not doing it before, and wouldn't later

[midnight briar]

when SOG had temporarily broken that assumption

[frigid gorge]

Peoples assumptions don't matter

[midnight briar]

yes they do

if people assume it's bad, they won't buy it

[frigid gorge]

Same people wouldn't buy things in the first place

[dense jolt]

GM, to my knowledge doesn't use any of BI made assets, both SOG and CSLA use some of these assets and improve uppon

[frigid gorge]

It's trying to cater to the people who would cry regardless

[stark turret]

Well, it is clear as day that GM/SOG/CSLA definitely made by the same people.

[leaden kite]

Firstly, GM uses 0 recycled content
Secondly, SOG uses non-SOG assets, as well.
Thirdly, recycled content doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

[midnight briar]

SOG only had some buildings from BI assets

[stray bridge]

You need to strictly monitor the quality control. Let me remind you, this is a paid CDLC, it is for sale. This is not a mod, not a mod, and that's it.

[wanton eagle]

Never assume anything with releases! Hasn't game development failing taught you anything! Wait until release and watch a utube vid on it, if you like it get it. If you don't, dont

[dense jolt]

still BI assets

[peak swallow]

There is a good reason assume is spelled the way it is... Key is in first 3 letters... People will assume anything they want to and common sense won't change that either way.

[frigid gorge]

And?

It delivered enough for me to be satisfied, I put my wallet where I spoke

[stray bridge]

CDLC quality at the horror level

[frigid gorge]

It didn't deliver enough for you - so don't buy it

[midnight briar]

there is a difference between there being some BI assets being in place for a few things and old BI assets being like the centerpiece of a DLC

[leaden kite]

Correct, but that's why steam allows you to refund things. And if you can't wait for 5 seconds until a content creator has made a video on it or for you to try the compat data first, that's kind of on you.

[frigid gorge]

What you keep bringing up is at "horror" level

The assets you dont mention are not

[granite crow]

Don't forget that vaniila A3 uses some small A2 assets like baskets and what not. Don't see anyone complaining about that

[midnight briar]

I'm just talking about what the general opinion of CDLC is going to be

SOG did good on making the general opinion that CDLC can be good with a lot of unique and high quality content

[frigid gorge]

You don't know what general opinion is going to be

[dense jolt]

it's up to BI to set what is allowed and what isn't

[frigid gorge]

You know your own opinion

[midnight briar]

I can see what it is from the steam reviews though

[frigid gorge]

People said what you're saying about general opinion after GM

[dense jolt]

if they allowed BI assets to be re-used for one cDLC, they allowed it for anyone else

[frigid gorge]

And here we are - GM better than ever, CDLCs going strong

[stark turret]

And that pesky CUP terrain mod! It is literally porting OPF and Arma 2 maps into my game!

[dense jolt]

it's up to the people developing the cDLC to take that offer or not

[midnight briar]

but that's the problem, those comments weren't justified with GM, they are justified here

so those opinion back then could be proven wrong

[frigid gorge]

according to who?

BI allowed reusing A2 assets

[midnight briar]

according to what's in the DLC?

[shadow glade]

I personally don't like PMC if it was something small as lets say Singapore special forces with a pimped out LSV with more then 1 weapon seats n some sort of new small UGV 10 weapons n new unique gear id probably spend 5-8€

[dense jolt]

and A3 assets ^

[leaden kite]

Not to mention that - once again - recycled content isn't inherently bad. Just because a mod has an M1911 doesn't mean a cDLC shouldn't have it or port it over.
However my issue is that the assets that were recycled often didn't receive enough work to differentiate them enough from mods.

[wanton eagle]

Again, opinion. I still don't want gm, doesn't mean it's a bad cdlc, just cos I don't want it.

[dense jolt]

it was some sort of example, i have no intention making any sort of cDLC for A3 anyways

[midnight briar]

I'm not talking about opinion

[frigid gorge]

Very true. But people keep saying "entire CDLC bad"

I am defending the good parts

[midnight briar]

I'm talking about, comments about GM just being recycled content were not justified, because it wasn't recycled content

[granite crow]

True! Those damn A1/2 assets available for the community to help create content!

[midnight briar]

they are justified with CSLA because it does have a lot of recycled content

[frigid gorge]

Most definitely not defending the blackhawk, the US uniforms, the M16s, etc

[stark turret]

Too bad people don't really realize how expensive production of a new assets is.

[broken furnace]

stayed up late last night to see the price tag. decided to wait till the next day for reviews and had a bit of a laugh

[frigid gorge]

And again, but civil and understandable?

[wanton eagle]

Nah mate, the logic of free market capitalism!

[shadow glade]

As long as it adds unique assets with distinct abilities like marksman or tank dlc i would say its worth it

[frigid gorge]

So like CSLA?

[inner urchin]

still going at it?

hey toot

[dense jolt]

yeah, it isn't about expensiveness, you need to take this into account when creating any sort of product for a market. and i honestly hope SOG can actually break even for instance

[rough pebble]

agreed, let comments on steam page decide

[frigid gorge]

Let the money decide*

GM was review bombed too

They still made good $$$

[shadow glade]

Cause it was the first

[frigid gorge]

Peoples word don't matter, their wallets do

[midnight briar]

GM had the disadvantage of being the first CDLC

[inner urchin]

like seriously i said it once and ill say it again, we are only marginally impacting the course of future development, the free market will decide

yeah

[stark turret]

Is it tho? If you don't like the product - you don't buy it. Pretty standart and grown up approach. Throwing broad statements without backing it up with facts - that is a bit warped logic.

[shadow glade]

And everyone thought it was gonna be paid mods from now on

[inner urchin]

it might be

no one can perdict the future

[midnight briar]

well CSLA isn't really helping the "paid mods" narrative

[shadow glade]

Well doesn't seem like alot of em r sepnding on this

[frigid gorge]

You sure?

[midnight briar]

when people are posting screenshots directly comparing assets from like CUP and CSLA

[inner urchin]

at least in the end, rhs is non profit

for now

[frigid gorge]

Yeah

[shadow glade]

Yes everyone i know refunded

[dense jolt]

the entire paid mods narrative is flawed to begin with

[frigid gorge]

This chat was filled wiht that

[leaden kite]

because their assets both come from the same god damn place

[frigid gorge]

Comparing how much better most of the contect in CSLA is