#creator_dlc_discussion

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

loud apex
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I'm still wondering what "Prague Content 2" is.

karmic harness
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It's the sequel to "Prague Content", obviously 🙃

steady ravine
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Prague > Czech > CSLA
CSLA 2 Confirmed!

loud apex
tired wave
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Im waiting for Prague Content 3

stiff lynx
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waiting for Brno Content 1 😄

hallow parrot
steady ravine
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👏 Lou

split sentinel
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The difference between gm or ws and sog is really astonishing

devout turtle
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Yep they did amazing work with small teams! Ive been saying that for many years. Great to see the side by side comparison

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SOG didnt set out to just make a DLC for Arma. We set out to found a studio and make future titles, graphic novels, and ultimately a TV show.

pastel pendant
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. . . graphic novel?

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like those old vietnam comics?

devout turtle
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Yeah weve released 3 free ones already as a trial. Plans are to go much further

pastel pendant
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do you have a link for them?

devout turtle
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Theyre linked on our community forum if you go to sogpf.com and then community and search. Cant do it myself as in bed recovering from an operation

pastel pendant
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thx

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i love those old comics

devout turtle
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They were just a testbed for the format

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We have the rights to all of Tilts memoirs and some other SOG vets too

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Just need a spare month or two to get the publisher, artist and budget sorted

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The point of doing them is to visualise content from sog vets for potential tv or movie deals (working with the SOG vets)

pastel pendant
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just saw one of them

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really cool stuff

devout turtle
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Thats kinda our mission

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Hence building a big team up and focusing on long term goals

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We also released way too much content to be economically viable. So other dlcs shouldnt be compared unfavourably to it. This first game is a bit of a loss leader for the future

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This is not so much a graphic novel, but another side-project we supported

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We’ve just completed a second one too. Papabear and whiplash and dugong do the graphic work and i liaise with the medal of honor team from the SOA to get the details right

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It seems to impress the right people

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Shows what an arma dlc can do irl

steady ravine
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imagine if CDLCs are sets in Armaverse (WS is kinda is)

devout turtle
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We dont do it for the money or “cash grab” like you see some commentators dishing out on steam or reddit or YT occasionally

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All the creator dlcs do it for the love of arma and their own genres

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We do what we do to shine a light on lesser known black ops histories and to preserve their legacies, pretty much

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Money is nice, but secondary

steady ravine
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say if BI give CLDC team license to use Enfusion engine fully and make their own Arma spin-off based on their pass CLDC works, will you guys do it?

sinful cape
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if cdlcs were made to get maximum amount of money, we would offer much different content 😄

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and much less of it 😄

random crane
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lootcrates CDLC will finally be a reality 👀

devout turtle
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Yay!

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Enfusion is probably many years away from ready tbh. A lot depends on engine maturity and investors/ budgets for future work. Not straightforward right now

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Arma 3 is the way to go for some time yet

sinful cape
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there's still lots of stuff that could be done

devout turtle
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A multi-core arma 3 dlc would be nice!

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“What did i just download?”
“30fps”

steady ravine
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*additional 30fps

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with that you get roughly 45 fps

devout turtle
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200% game boost for $9.99

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Cheaper than buying a 3090

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If only there was a dude who could reprogram arma 3 engine to seamlessly change it to multi-core…

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A lot of old games republish on new frameworks with updated performance, but yeah it would be pretty much an impossible feat of course

young geyser
# devout turtle A lot of old games republish on new frameworks with updated performance, but yea...

At some time there were serious talks about updating Arma 3's DirectX version into a newer one (same as DayZ) and that that would remove some of the engine's overhead. Sadly that didn't come into fruition but the amount of work required wasn't insane and perhaps now that BI has seen how many players didn't jump to Reforger and just stayed with Arma 3 then perhaps some additional updates could do wonders for player retention (retention in the Armaverse that is, until A4 is ready).

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Another sad development that I am picking up is that A3's improvements, which were very significant during the cDLCs releases, has since really slowed down by now. I might be wrong there since that is just my perception but if that is indeed the case then I hope that BI can regain some focus on A3 in the near future.

steady ravine
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and no, improving A3 performance will not lowers Reforger's player count

devout turtle
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I think everyone in the arma community appreciates that reforger will sit alongside arma 3 for some time to come with players jumping across for a game every now and then when new updates or game modes or content get added, until it reaches a more solid platform for modding and mission design

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Id love to be able to say we were going to port sog to it, as the environment and lighting and art pipeline look wonderful. For anyone with an asset base as big as ours its about a million dollars worth of time to do it and several years. Any any new content on top would need investment. So without plane/ heli/ tracked simulation and a much more developed mission editor and back end bells and whistles there’s no attraction - for now. So arma 3 gets our support for some time yet.

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Its cool to see where we might be going, but sad to see it wont be for a while. But knowing and accepting that means we can enjoy what we have and deepen its richness on the stable but less optimised arma 3.

red saddle
steady ravine
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so that means killing A3 for Win7 or older

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also Linux?

devout turtle
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It hardly means killing A3. A tad dramatic?

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Thanks for the insights dedmen

tepid lance
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32 and 64 bit versions of the exe still exist as well. So it's been done before.

young geyser
young geyser
red saddle
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No DayZ runs 11.0, it uses 11.1 for some internal only debugging, but nothing else

young geyser
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Funny because there were even talks that the DirX update would take a couple of weeks of Dev time (estimated). I remember that clearly

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I don't think that vanilla arma 3 can be squeezed much more performance out of it at this stage. Sadly some mods considered "essential" by the community such as walkable moving objects and other ones can easily neglect many of the optimisations done to the engine due to their extensive use of scripting commands, leading to many players believing that Arma 3 is just poorly optimised when in fact it is their extensive mod lists the ones behind those low FPS/stutters etc. The good thing is that Reforger incorporates as vanilla features most of those "essential" Arma 3 mods so BI is clearly doing its homework on that department.

devout turtle
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Thats also one of the reasons we wrote our own optimised modules and solutions in sog for revive, air support, logistics, earplugs, rearm, building, eating and a bunch of other stuff.

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To avoid having to use mission scripted solutions

young geyser
devout turtle
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Thanks, credit goes to our team of programmers who have taught me that i should never attempt to write scripts again! They take coding to a new level that is so far from my own understanding.

ebon sedge
knotty ore
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thats the mystic runes they've used.

devout turtle
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Yeah may as well be in runic

young geyser
red saddle
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Old Man is a very good QA test though.
Recently I noticed it has script errors that were not reported, so I fixed our error reporting and now Old Man is spamming script errors owoyay

devout turtle
olive vortex
olive vortex
sinful cape
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getting stuff done > pretty code

olive vortex
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optimally you get stuff done with pretty code 😎

young geyser
young geyser
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Thou "getting things done" and then "just leave it like that" seems to had been the policy of BI's previous coders. Hopefully that has changed by now, considering moders will be able to "see" a lot more of the source code in Reforger.

young geyser
karmic harness
young geyser
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A great quote which can also be complemented with: "It does matter how slow your code does run" 😅

young geyser
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Or the contract stipulates that BI owns anything you release on their platform?

devout turtle
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We licensed our work to bohemia to publish in arma 3. Adding something from our code base to the core one would be fairly simple on the surface, it would however need QA in a range of broader scenarios, which is a bit more time consuming.

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Some things we added like enhanced revive rely on era and faction specific voice acting and if it was implemented in any campaigns then its likely the whole campaign would need re-testing and that’s very time consuming

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So not simple at all for those kind of cases

young geyser
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I was thinking about the melee system and the logistics system (virtual inventories) which I find amazing, it makes moving around assets so much easier... and in fact in A3 there are many assets you just can't move without mods...

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I wouldn't have the melee system be bound to a weapon firing mode thou but to a key (like shift+f) rebindable of course. Webnight's Improved Melee System is the perfect example of an optimal melee system but that is sadly weighted down by it being a scripted solution rather than an engine solution. https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2291129343

devout turtle
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Melee is a bit of a fudge, as the intersect calculations are a bit hacky, and how to make it work - fire mode vs keybind etc - so it would need a bit of thought. Add to that that no vanilla weapons have bayonets, and that we use the pointer slot for bayonets as they are redundant in vietnam era, so a new slot would need adding along with about 20 new 3d models. We also added hacks to hide a bayonet if a suppressor is fitted, as there was no easy way to remove one in place of the other… so i cant see vanilla game ever adopting our hacky, barely made it past QA, solution.

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We spoke to webknight at length about some of his mods back in 2018-19 and sadly none of them were possible to use in a paid product due to them being very specific and not likely to work in many of the edge cases. This is something that modders dont have to do - check functionality in all use cases

young geyser
young geyser
devout turtle
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One of the original “rules” or acceptance criteria for creator dlcs was to try to avoid scripted solutions.

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This is because 1. They dont often cover edge cases (zeus remote control, AI use in various localities, interpolation to the full range of possible stance anims etc) and 2. They clutter the system stack (or whatever its called) with code being executed that slows down server fps

young geyser
devout turtle
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So we were lucky that BI QA tested our melee system - which was donated to us by friends in another mod group and then adapted and refined by our team and shared back - and it was acknowledged that it worked reasonably and surprisingly well and so it was allowed to remain. However the handheld melee was judged too low quality and so we would have had to remove it but as we use it extensively in the mike force building system we agreed a compromise to make them off by default and only addable by a specific mission parameter.

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Thankfully BI agreed to that, and so we got to have all of it in the dlc, just with some elements hidden by default

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So if our team of talented guys managed to get in this function by a hairs breadth, you can see how other solutions might get queried and forcibly removed.

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Its a big risk to add any non standard functionality

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Especially if you make it part of your campaign or missions

young geyser
devout turtle
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Yeah you can use them if you add the param to your description.ext

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Mike force has them enabled

young geyser
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You answered before I was able to hit enter!

devout turtle
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Its sad ive seen people accuse us of withholding functionality just for our own game mode but anyone can add them

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Some people are too paranoid and suspicious

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They start out with wild accusations and never listen to the replies, seeking only to justify their initial outburst

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That somehow we are cash grabbing cynical profiteers who seek to deprive them of what they want lol

young geyser
devout turtle
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The truth is a little more complex and much more technical and not about us benefitting at all

young geyser
devout turtle
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When we wrote our proposal (90 pages) back in 2018 it had 2 pages of wishlist - things we wanted to develop that were not native to the engine. Looking now at the list we managed about two thirds of it which i call an unexpected success

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Without bohemia programmers working with us we didnt hope for much of it

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But once we got our core group of “solution specialists” and a bit of help from BI, and a lot of advice from dedmen before and after he joined BI, we managed to muddle through, despite not much engine changes being possible

young geyser
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I bet there was some sort of "Enhanced Movement" feature also on your wishlist that just din't make it in the end...

devout turtle
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It wasnt a bad outcome

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Actually no

young geyser
devout turtle
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Ive never much liked or used it lol

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And nobody was urging me to add it

young geyser
devout turtle
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I used to have a feature in my evolution missions where the sniper role could create a ladder and rotate and elevate it before fixing it in position. This was great for accessing rooftops. Once there other team members could spawn sandbags and place them precisely to make a rooftop sangar. I used R3F logistics and loved it for moving stuff around and towing.

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So i had certain things in mind when writing the wishlist. Some we managed in the dlc and some went into mike force

young geyser
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Well, your logistics system is basically R3F logistics on steroids... the influence is clearly visible

devout turtle
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And other team members came with their own ideas

young geyser
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I am still dissecting Mike Force and how incredible it is... a work of art for sure... pretty inspiring for mission makers

devout turtle
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Yeah i had a fusion of r3f and my own code in evolution, and we looked st that as a starting point, then mapped out the functions and features we wanted and wrote it all from scratch to be better optimised and less buggy, easier UX than my old implementations

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Id still like a placeable ladder and a plank as a carry-able feature in general game

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As it is you have to use the mike force building system to achieve it and people seem to love it

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And people have dsui and enhanced movement mods so why bother adding such to the dlc. Seemed like not much point as they do what people want.

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The things we added were things we felt we could enhance and optimise and simplify

young geyser
devout turtle
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Early on we spoke to a lot of modders and decided if we would leave things as a mod or mission-code or add functionality to the dlc

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We all inspire each other in this community, so long as raw code isnt lifted then copying, expanding, simplifying or completing an idea is all good

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I adapted a mod called merciless in call of duty 1, took it over after the original author abandoned it, and added a lot of new features. The final set was pretty awesome. When call of duty modern warfare came out it had lifted pretty much every idea from that mod. I had no reason to mod the game any more!

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Thats when i moved over to arma

young geyser
young geyser
devout turtle
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The finance model for creator dlcs is too limited to succeed long term.

young geyser
devout turtle
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I hope we get a chance to give detailed feedback before any new initiative is announced

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There’s no way our team would repeat this model of approach

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Most of our guys do what they do as a quasi minimum wage hobby on the side of well paid jobs that a game studio salary would never be able to match

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That limits their time availability and makes delivery take ages

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To pay people to work half time or full time you need hard cash

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So investment

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And its pretty much impossible to secure investment on the terms in the current creator dlc contract

young geyser
devout turtle
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Theres that but also many clauses in the contract that would make an investor bail

young geyser
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Well, you guys now have the experience and the talent and also the cooperation of the other cDLC devs to 1) Request future contracts to be mutually beneficial. 2) Secure a publisher/investor to do your own game.

devout turtle
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Creator dlc program was not designed with an ambitious large scale franchise level project like ours in mind

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If we’d made a less ambitious project we’d have earned more personally but none of us would have been too happy with the limited results

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We tried to bang our square peg into the creator dlcs round hole

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It was ultimately a success in many ways but a failure in other ways. A lot of lessons learned

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So we hope there will be scope to discuss this in some depth in future

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To address the critical points that would need changing for us to continue in the arma world

young geyser
sinful cape
devout turtle
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Our team is made up of over 100 individuals, each with their own views and gut feelings. To motivate them to work on something new will require a better model than what we have now

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It was an experiment and by the end we will have spent 6 years on it

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Which is a long time

young geyser
sinful cape
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it doesn't need to be terrible, it can just be totally unknown :>

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also, while 200k sounds like a lot, it is really nothing when it comes to years long game dev

young geyser
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But those games that made 200k were literally dots moving around... just saying...

sinful cape
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for me, making a cdlc really put into perspective all those "i need 10k for my game"-kickstarter projects that popped up some years ago. it's no wonder they failed to deliver with everything 😄

young geyser
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Well, I was going to say is that despite the cDLC program not being financially viable in its current form for the developers at least was a stepping stone for aiming at getting better deals and redacting better contracts that would ensure a truly mutually beneficial partnership

sinful cape
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depends on what you define as financially viable. will you get rich from it and never have to work ever again? hell no. will you be able to make a product, pay off all the costs, and make some more on top of it? that's totally possible.

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that said, it's also a matter of time. the cdlc likely won't stop selling after initial release. it can - in theory - go on for years. it won't be much, but a little bit is better than nothing :>

young geyser
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Yeah I wasn't thinking about that. I am pretty sure that if BI keeps the game supported for some extra years then the cDLC sales should continue to pour in some revenue for quite a while

sinful cape
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at the end of the day it could always be worse as well. 😄 doesn't bethsoft take 70% of every sale on their paid content?

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i mean those skyrim things

young geyser
sinful cape
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yeah, that's pretty terrible, tbh. i think agreeing to that deal is stupid.

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ok, probably depends on the amount of content we're talking about. are you making a sword and sell it? seems ok. is it a lengthy quest line with lots of dialog and VO, etc? now the deal is getting really bad.

young geyser
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I do think that BI's cut should be variable rather than a fixed amount. If BI provided lots of support for a particular cDLC team translating into many man hours of paid work then their cut should be high initially until those "direct" costs are paid back and then the % of the fee should be lowered so that the cDLC team gets more revenue long term. BI gets player retention and a revenue that wasn't previously accounted for anyway...

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And players who buy a cDLC and like it are more likely to buy other cDLCs, DLCs and even other BI games so the potential revenue out of single cDLC sell is exponential for BI. In contrast the cDLC dev only sells one copy. So BI should account for that and offer better incentives for participants of the cDCL program

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Another point that could be included in future contracts are the steam reviews. A well reviewed cDLC gets a higher % of the revenue... ensuring that those who spent more or paid more attention to detail and quality get better rewards. In the case of SOG... SOG is a far better representative of what the Arma platform is capable of compared even to other BI offerings I won't even talk about

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BI must not fail to see and retain talent in its community, so not to repeat what happened with player unknown's for example which went independent because BI couldn't see the his potential and ended up making a game with far more players and that probably took more market share from BI than any other game.

young geyser
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I am not going to lie, I would rather buy a Stand Alone version of SOG 10 times than a single copy of Reforger or even A3 vanilla. In fact without mods and cDLCs Arma 3 was long uninstalled from my computer. And I am pretty sure that is also true for many other players.

random crane
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@young geyser out of curiosity are you working on/thinking of making your own cdlc?

young geyser
random crane
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well hope things work out for you 👍

young geyser
random crane
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🙃

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we'd need an A4 to begin with 😛

young geyser
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But I was serious about CUP! I would pay whatever for it in A4! It is time that you guys make money big time!

random crane
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thanks for the kind words, we'll see when we get there 🙂

pastel pendant
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people are certain about arma 4 being messy, yet no one is playing/suggesting improvements to reforger that will surely carry over to the next game

devout turtle
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it has a roadmap, which is quite specific, and limited

young geyser
pastel pendant
young geyser
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If I were to suggest a single thing to BI regarding the release of Arma 4 is this:

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  • Don't release a game that lacks assets on day one. It is cool that your engine is awesome and your platform is super modding friendly but if the base "vanilla" content is not "rich" enough then players will simply loose interest very quickly.
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We no longer live in the days were gamers have a never ending patience in waiting years to get mods to fix this or add this etc. Most structural assets have to be in place on DAY ONE.

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Just like SOG did with its release. Took them 6 years and 100+ devs but they released a full blown game that doesn't require other mods and years of extra development to feel complete.

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Today's market is certainly nothing like how the market was when A3 was released. Now you have the more casual games going more hardcore and more "milsim" by the day.... Competition is higher than ever...

marble wave
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Reforger is not a finished game nor does it claim to be. It's an early access engine demo that it states is still under development

young geyser
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Hopefully things can take a turn for Reforger but can you undo all those negative reviews on steam? That is something that must not happen to A4! Ever!

sweet edge
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must not happen to A4 ever
probably that's why they released Reforger in the first place, instead of having us stuck with just A3 for few more years and then dropping A4 with all the broken stuff they are fixing rn

young geyser
devout turtle
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I can agree with that

quiet halo
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Id love to see a cold war scandinavia cdlc, get the swedish, danish, finnish, norwegian and russians and the main focus would be on naval and air combat, id pay 100$ or more on the spot for it

knotty ore
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For that many factions you'd probably need to pay double😅

quiet halo
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Gladly, i just want the draken and viggen and some awsome scandinavian terrain

tepid lance
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taking notes 🗒️ ✏️

random crane
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scandi factions in GM confirmed

devout turtle
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If only those saabs also bombed hanoi

quiet halo
# tepid lance _taking notes_ 🗒️ ✏️

Haha im glad, im full of ideas for a scandi cdlc, i live in denmark and ive visited a million museums at this point, both in denmark and sweden and ive tried a irl viggen sim, ive got plenty of ideas and knowledge if u ever need any, always feel free to dm me

tepid lance
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Awesome to hear, thanks for the offer! If you're not already aware, Denmark is featured as a faction in the Global Mobilization CDLC 🙂

quiet halo
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Yea im aware its really good, but could use some jets haha

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Even just sweden and finland cold war would make for an insane cdlc

alpine rivet
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Northern Fronts team is making cold war Finland. But I would gladly pay for a nordic country cold war CDLC. That's a theme that probably no one has done before in any game.... Maybe Wargame but it's quite unexplored territory.

quiet halo
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Just imagien flying a j-35 draken or viggen above pine forrets chasing down migs, damm it would be awsome, maby even flying a danish f-104, so many options

devout turtle
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Dont danes use f16s?

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Or is that a later thing

quiet halo
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Yea f-16 but that wasent until after the 90s up until then we used the viggen, draken and the f-104

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At this point in time we have some 50 f-16 and next year 28 f-35s will arrive

alpine rivet
quiet halo
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Yea thats why a scandinavia cdlc would be awsome, think of all the aircraft u could add

alpine rivet
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*fennoscandia cdlc 😉 but nordic cdlc would be awsome.

split sentinel
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I just want a high-quality viggen in arma

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but I'd guess the thrust reverser would be kinda difficult to do

quiet halo
daring knoll
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Pretty sure for now, DCS has one of those SAABs, and there's an F-104 mod which is pretty cool

steady ravine
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don't forget the Swedish S-Tank

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i wonder if arma engine can handle that turretless tank

random crane
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it cant

olive vortex
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You can find it in SFP mod.

wraith sleet
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how does it work besides poorly?

olive vortex
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Works ok with players IIRC, AI can't handle it.

noble shuttle
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yeah the AI drivers don't know they have to turn the vehicle to let the gunner shoot

olive vortex
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Yeah, no native support for that sadly.

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Also big issue for ww2 TDs.

silk jolt
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And they just announced a Kola map coming in future - although that might be a bit ahead

split sentinel
rose mica
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Are there any known cell in development? Not asking for any specifics, but are any being worked on.

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?

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Cdlc*

brave oriole
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creator dlc's? I think theres alot being updated, but none being made right now

knotty ore
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none of the cdlcs have been announced before they have been near completion so it is unknown

hallow parrot
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Unknown CDLC is being tested it seems, according to SteamDB. But no guarantee at all until it reveals

steady ravine
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New CDLC titled Reforger (but in RV4)

untold elm
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VAC just gave me $200k for getting blowed up real good, who do I have to bribe for a 4 CMBG CDLC?

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Although come to think of it, Canada is usually a later addition to Cold War games - Flames of War Team Yankee, Wargame ALB, Battlefront (tabletop game), Flashpoint Campaigns Southern Storm, GMT’s 4CMBG: MBT Expansion , possibly Armoured Brigade future DLC, not in WARNO or Regiments yet - Canada always arrives late. Is this just because we had the smallest contingent in NATO back in II Corps reserve, or do you think marketing shows limited interest?

random crane
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limited interest imo

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im not entirely sure but i dont think they had a lot of indigenous designs either

waxen sky
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Should i buy SOG or apex?

knotty ore
waxen sky
hallow parrot
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Yes, it is called Apex Protocol

waxen sky
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Ill buy apex then

hallow parrot
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It is always cheaper if you buy in a sale

waxen sky
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True

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When is the next steam sale?

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Or does nobody know yet?

hallow parrot
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It does a sale in like every one or two months. So not so far away

split sentinel
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Next sale should be around halloween

devout turtle
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follow it or add it to your wishlist (sog too - might as well)

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then you'll get an email when its on sale

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unless you cant wait and want the new stuff now ofc

young geyser
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I hope the Ai gurus on each CDLC team are already working on replacing any ai loop for patch 2.10's new group Event Handlers!

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Additionally I hope some will make use of the new saveMissionProfileNamespace command for adding a MP compatible save system to their MP Campaign. (Not going to say which CLDC thou!)

olive vortex
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saveMissionProfileNamespace does not really make anything easier, it could be done with profileNamespace earlier.

young geyser
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So now you can have a decent MP saving system that does not require an external Database yet will not saturate you profilenamespace which already handles lots of other information. With savemisionprofilenamespace you can create a new savespace exclusive for saving relevant VARs and the files can be mission/session specific too...

olive vortex
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If you think that's the reason the people did not want to implement MP saving I think you're underestimating amount of effort it takes to serialize and deserialize whole scenario state manually.

young geyser
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Now, if you want to "SAVE EVERYTHING" then yes...

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" Every inconsequential object that is not in the player's vicinity is reverted to its original state whenever progress is saved, with the exclusion of destroyed structures (avoiding any potential conflict with mission critical objectives). This effectively puts a hard limit on the maximum size of your saves, or rather, it limits the impact of terrain objects interactions on your save files."

olive vortex
#

How's that in any way related to custom MP saving system?

young geyser
#

Vindicta actually has the best MP saving system I've seen

#

In extraction for example what would you need to save? The Intel Progress Variable, the state of the players' group and their units, both health, inventory and position? Then the state of the vehicles and containers at the starting base in a radious? Then which missions remain available and which missions were already completed/unavailable. And what else?, the money variable...

#

You just let the enemy patrols and everything else be auto generated by the script/system again no need to save those...

olive vortex
#

It still means that the systems in the mission would need to support being loaded from a "save". And if they were not designed for that it's a quite a lot of work.

young geyser
# olive vortex It still means that the systems in the mission would need to support being loade...

Well, if it is a MP server then the "systems" would need to be run exactly like always but instead of taking the starting vars they use the ones from the save file. And yes if you haven't already you would need to tie every system to the loaded Variables. Lets say the most complex system is the missions system which selects which missions are randomly generated according to the current intel points collected by the player. For simplicity's sake if a player is in the MIDDLE of a mission and wants to save there you could either save lots of stuff regarding where it was deployed or you could just tell the player in a warning that the current mission would have to be randomly generated again after re-loading the MP session. That way you don't have to manually save the positions and the enemies deployed for that mission.

#

On the next releoad the mission system gets the saved "intel Var" and from there decides to generate the random mission according to that intel value

#

If I am 80% intel and reload a saved file in MP me and my team start at the base with our saved inventory, perhaps healed or not, doesnt matter, and the mission is autogenerated acording to my current intel points

#

So I am not getting the starting missions because the intel value is too high to assigning me any of those

#

If the save systems saves the data on the previous missions is kinda irrelevant, players just want to continue with their previous items, vehicles and intel points.. everything else is just a plus

olive vortex
#

You dont need to tell me how to design such system. As you seem to understand how to do that you should also understand that expectation of addition of such system to already released DLC mission only because "mission save namespace" was added seems unrealistic.

young geyser
#

Wages of War TM, coming soon on a workshop near you 😉

olive vortex
#

It could be added but I doubt it is worth the cost for the author tbh.

#

Things like this usually should be added during design phase.

young geyser
#

And if not, we always got our own hands and minds 🙂

#

You've already done your magic, and will soon do mine if the starts align 🙏

#

PS: If you were thinking I was suggesting that for SOG then I will clarify that I wasn't! SOG already has too many features, asking for more would be too greedy even from me!

#

There are other CDLC that due to their settings, amount of content and nature did not require as much crunch time while also did not release as many patches yet and therefore could perhaps use some spare time for such additional system

olive vortex
#

I was pretty sure you meant extraction.

young geyser
sinful cape
# young geyser There are other CDLC that due to their settings, amount of content and nature di...

i didn't want to write anything, but this line triggered me somewhat. "did not require as much crunch time" meanwhile we are working 40 hour jobs + arma stuff + super high expectation from the players + all the other stuff on top of it. yes, WS is not as big as the other cdlc, but that doesn't mean we never have or had crunch time. we still have deadlines to meet and sometimes things don't work out the way they should be.

olive vortex
#

Bbut, "just add the feature" ;P

sinful cape
#

wish we had a magic "make it happen"-button :>

#

there's magic in cdlc developments, but sadly not that kind of magic 😄

steady ravine
#

if only you guys can borrow Dedmen's clone from BI to make new stuff

random crane
#

one dedmen clone coming right up!

#

🧑‍🍳

hallow parrot
#

createAgent

wraith sleet
#

why no use ctrl c, ctrl v

sinful cape
#

problem is, it takes at least 20 years

#

loading times are pretty bad

hallow parrot
#

We had Arma 4: Operation Magnitude by then

wraith sleet
#

operation magnitude????? tell me noaw

young geyser
#

First: Why do you think I was referring to your CDLC specifically. Second: Not as much crunch time doesn't mean I deny you had any

sinful cape
#

because you mentioned extraction and thus made it pretty obvious

young geyser
# sinful cape because you mentioned extraction and thus made it pretty obvious

As an example for a saving system requirements yes, but not as an example for amount of content. But I also get I tend to "get into people's nerves" around here so forgive me for that. I swear I don't mean to do that but in my mind it doesn't sound so rude, perhaps the politeness of my thoughts is lost in the translation but that is no excuse

#

Your work is awesome and offers something unique, in that regard it is complete in my mind!

#

Whatever extra we get from the CDLC program at these stages is just that, extra presents on already great and complete offerings

#

I should, no matter what, take some english lessons specially on the "how to say things without hurting" the other parties 😅 First it was Veteran, then Dedmen and now you.. so clearly the problem is just me meowsweats

untold elm
#

Are the PT-76’s in SOG and GM at slightly different scales?

knotty ore
#

They are different models so it can happen. different source references etc can result in different measurements

tepid lance
#

It looks like SOG's may be based on the Type 63 which is a different size IRL.

wraith sleet
#

Im pretty sure that they have sub models of the pt76

#

(Ob'yekt 740, 1957) – PT-76 armed with the D-56TM 76.2 mm rifled tank gun (double-baffle muzzle brake, bore evacuator, fume extractor) and a height of the hull was increased by 13 cm

devout turtle
#

Its not something we’d be overly concerned by. Usually aim the LAW and fire!

wraith sleet
#

Pt 76 is based tho why kill it ; ~ ;

pastel pendant
#

mig19 will have a proper answer to that

prime hollow
#

M41>

wraith sleet
#

m41 cant swim

devout turtle
#

we may focus on the storytelling from our veteran advisers POV, but we apply equal interest and passion to all sides of the history

mossy osprey
#

... this seems like hopefully the right place to ask.. I've googled for weeks and checked every result --

how the hell do we get a list of the mission parameters for a mission in a DLC - for example, in this case, SOG PF?

#

to clarify: by "list" I mean the list of the names we might put in a Params class in a server.cfg file.

olive vortex
#

You can read them from mission config, which you can access via debug console.

#

I guess I'll put em on wiki when I'll have bit of free time.

mossy osprey
#

so, I've looked there, but since Arma's documentation doesn't explain where to look, or what to look for, I can't seem to find anything like mission parameters.

mossy osprey
#

sorry to keep bugging you on this, I'm honestly trying to be self-sufficient here, but the community seems to not encourage that to the extent of telling folks to "figure it out for themselves" whenever what seems like a simple question comes up. It's very discouraging to folks wanting to engage to improve that aspect of the community if they're driven away when they ask / the information seems super easy, but completely non-existent.

and this isn't an attack on you, I hope you realize ANY response has been appreciated, since this has been 2 weeks of dead ends for something exasperatingly-simple.

#

and I don't want you to have to update the wiki to list them. It would be great if BI's wiki just mentioned it at all in the mission parameters wiki page - how to get the parameter names.

#

@olive vortex ^ all off the above is capped off with a thank you, very, very much, since you gave me the hint I needed. I had to be in game, in the mission with it running, and logged in to see the Params tree in the missionConfig.

#

... heh, but some of the names are cut off, even at 4k, so I'm not sure. I can skip those for now

devout turtle
#

ive been making arma missions for about 10 years and i dont even understand what you want or why, so it's not likely people deliberately making things difficult, arma is a complex and vast world, and even permanent residents don't know all the ins and outs...

#

you may feel frustrated but best not to direct it at Bohemia or anyone else, just keep an open mind, and ask in the mission making channel here maybe, as what you need is likely much more generic than asking us in SOG team

sinful cape
#

oh great, so it's not just me who is confused about the mission parameter question stuff 😄

devout turtle
#

Yeah if i want to know about params in a workshop mission id depbo it and open description.ext in notepad++ and analyse that. But maybe im just a simple mind here.

knotty ore
#

The missions are in ebos fo these dlcs so not always as simple as that.

devout turtle
#

ah yeah true

red saddle
#

He crossposted across multiple channels and probably about half a dozen people already solved his question.
Debug console config viewer or script can read description.ext
He wants to have the parameter names so he can configure it in his server.cfg mission rotation

Crossposting times 4 because not wanting to wait 5 minutes for an answer, and a "people are too stupid/lazy to actually read my request" instead of a "Yeah I know they are in description.ext, but how can i access them without unpacking the mission"
Well...
If you don't say what your abilities/skills are, don't expect others to know that.
You asked where to find it, people said in description.ext, which is correct.
Saying people are telling "figure it out for yourself", while in reality they are just answering the question you asked, and then telling them off for doing that will just make people not want to help you.
Also please read our #rules before you start crossposting again.

willow scroll
#

is it able to donate 3d models ?

sweet edge
#

With full rights transfer I believe, unless the modeler is part of the cdlc team

devout turtle
#

From who to who for what?

willow scroll
young geyser
#

GM being cheaper than CSLA makes no sense... but whatever...

wraith sleet
#

is gm better

young geyser
# wraith sleet is gm better

Content wise it blows CSLA out of the water, but it being "better" is subjective... Personally I do find it better, in my case "better" meaning more attention to detail, care and the technical aspects of the CDLC feel more polished to me...

prime hollow
#

It’s a steal for 8 bucks

crimson fiber
#

which of the creator dlcs are worth buying

#

gonna sell some csgo items

hallow parrot
#

Every CDLCs have their own pros/cons. Can't really say which is the goto

crimson fiber
#

oh

#

StatTrak™ Musikipaketti | Skog, III-Arena, gonna sell this and hope i get something for it

#

probably not but its worth a try

#

or i could just download a creator dlc

#

S.O.G. Prairie Fire - Creator DLC Compatibility Data for Non-Owners

#

like that one

hallow parrot
#

No, a CDLC can't be installed without you buy. Or try Compatibility Data for it

crimson fiber
#

damn

#

fuck

#

i dont have any money rn

hallow parrot
#

Or try Compatibility Data for it

crimson fiber
#

hmm iguess

hallow parrot
#

You can try Compatibility Data freely

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

its only mp thou

#

i reed

hallow parrot
#

Only MP?

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

?

hallow parrot
#

What do you mean?

#

Multiplayer?

crimson fiber
#

ye

hallow parrot
#

Of course not

crimson fiber
#

oh okay

#

my bad

sinful cape
#

well, compatibility data is for mp if you want to play with people who have it but you dont

#

this way you can join the server (unless it's a cdlc terrain), and the usual dlc restrictions apply

crimson fiber
#

oh

#

well i wont buy any map dlc rn

#

im gonna buy jet dlc

hallow parrot
#

There is no “Map DLC” tho

crimson fiber
#

oh

#

wait

#

isnt apex

#

nvmd

#

i might be stupid

hallow parrot
#

Yes, Apex is much more than just a map

crimson fiber
#

oh yea

sinful cape
#

whatever you want to buy, you can test it ingame first

#

in virtual arsenal / garage

steady nest
#

The above is enabled for CDLC by downloading the corresponding Compatibility Data from Steam Workshop and enabling it like any other mod

drifting dust
#

Is there anyway to enable just the terrains/maps for the CDLCs? For instance if you wanted to run mostly vanilla factions but using SOG terrains?

hallow parrot
#

No

lunar rivet
#

I wish

devout turtle
#

You can design a mission like that

#

Just load the dlc and place down vanilla units

#

Use the editor

lilac badger
#

I bet every studio that made a creator DLC for Arma 3 will be at work in Reforger already planning future products... excited to see what comes from 3rd parties in the coming years.

sinful cape
#

at least we aren't right now. it's still a bit too early for us

lilac badger
knotty ore
#

the documentation and features are bit too limited right now to do anything too serious

#

its promising start but also there is a lot of unknowns in limits and final ways of how things will work

#

also its not yet known if there will be similar creator system in place at all so best people can do is try out the tools

devout turtle
#

No way to finance a Reforger dlc at this point.

wraith sleet
#

no reforger will probably be dead shortly, arma 4 will be that forever game that keeps getting updated

pastel pendant
lilac badger
random crane
#

too early to commit to a reforger cdlc, the engine is still changing a lot, also BI hasnt laid out any clear plans for CDLCs and the game itself is still in early access

#

(plus whatever additional content they plan to release after early access, which is fairly reasonable to think would take priority over cdlcs)

raven urchin
#

Omg that new Western Sahara update is nutty💯

vestal lodge
#

Someone in workshop should make the ukrainian btr-4 its a travesty that it appears no one has dose it yet

pastel pendant
#

besides that, this is not the channel for that

vestal lodge
pastel pendant
#

never too late to learn how to mod

vestal lodge
pastel pendant
#

😅

vestal lodge
wraith sleet
#

try audacity

sterile harness
#

are there any CBA magazine and joint rails compatibility patches/mods for the CSLA and Global Mobilization CDLC?

vivid lynx
untold elm
#

I believe the Weapon Balance mods do that, I’ve found them nifty. Maybe the ACE compats also?

sterile harness
#

Ohh cool, thanks! Any specific mods to look for?

limber ivy
#

How would I go about spawning the vehicles and such in my game in base? I host a local server and go into the commands, I have the command to spawn vehicles working but I can't find the ids for and of the content creator stuff. Mainly SOG.

#

Update, I found the SOG wiki which lists the classnames but it's not working. Can I just not use these in the base game at all?

sinful cape
#

you have to start the game with SOG enabled

limber ivy
#

So there is no way to use them without that?

sinful cape
#

yes, because they only get added with that :p

#

it's the same for all CDLCs

limber ivy
#

Hm but if I do that I can't play any of the base maps right?

sinful cape
#

maps and other vanilla game content should be fine.

limber ivy
#

If I host a MP game then they all need SOG too right?

#

Unlike the DLC where it just restricts you.

sinful cape
#

they dont have to own it, they can just use the compatibility data from the workshop

limber ivy
#

So that would let me start a Direct Action or something in SOG and then spawn in the SOG stuff to use alongside them without the CDLC in 2035?

sinful cape
#

if they use the compatibility data, the usual dlc restrictions apply but that's all

limber ivy
#

Oh damn.

#

Contact isn't like that right? it's in the base game regardless.

sinful cape
#

parts of it, but not all

#

for example the alien entity stuff, etc. is not in the base game

limber ivy
#

Interesting. Is there an issue if I have SOG and the mod you linked at the same time?

sinful cape
#

no, it's exactly the same files

limber ivy
#

I share presets to them.

#

Ok so it won't break anyhing.

#

LORD IT'S BIG!

sinful cape
#

compatibility data on workshop exists so that situations like this can work

limber ivy
#

Well I guess it is all the stuff.....

#

So.... lets say me and 1 other have SOG. I launch IN sog. Then the other 2 don't have SOG.

#

Can both me and the other SOG use the stuff? or would he need to launch in SOG

sinful cape
#

the other 2 can join if they use the compat data, but they wont be able to drive new vehicles or use the new weapons (without adverts popping up) etc

limber ivy
#

But they can get in passenger spots on the helis and stuff I assume.

sinful cape
#

i think so yeah, but havent tested it myself tbh

limber ivy
#

Well.. I will let you know... as that is literally what I have going on tonight. 2 with, 1 without.

#

So I will find out.

#

lol

devout turtle
#

Bear in mind that missions wont load for them on sog maps if they only have the compat data. No maps are free

wispy temple
#

hey i just bought arma, which dlc/dlcs should i buy

molten wave
#

For the ultimate experience, I suggest all of them. Otherwise, I’d start with all official DLCs, since many cool mods are dependent on them. If you enjoy the 2035 setting, then purchase Western Sahara as well. In case, you prefer the Cold War era, all other CDLCs are for you

wispy temple
#

Thanks 🙂

steady nest
# wispy temple Thanks 🙂

Note that the Creator DLCs have a different rule from the base game, which has data of the official DLCs downloaded so that you can 'try before you buy'... this is not done with the Creator DLCs

#

You must instead download the corresponding data from Steam Workshop and load it as a mod in order to try out that CDLC's assets before buying

crimson fiber
#

which of the creator dlc is worth buying, or should I just go for apex

sinful cape
#

i'd always go for apex first

crimson fiber
#

aight

#

I thought it would be cool with a cold war scenario too but never tried apex map

hallow parrot
#

It is always recommended to get DLCs over CDLCs I'd say. Of course if you're good with (rather) less players to play with, or you're just a singleplayer enthusiast, go for it

crimson fiber
#

i just want a good map to play single player on

#

yes I enjoy mp top but single player is just calm

#

but idk if I shall go for western Sahara:cheap or cold war kinda expensive

tepid lance
#

The pricing is quite relative to the amount of content available, of course. 🙂

loud apex
#

Global Mobilization is cheaper than a pack of cigarettes in Australia

crimson fiber
#

thats alot

#

but i dont got the best pc either

#

so maybe a smaller map would be good

devout turtle
#

probably best to avoid SOG if you have a brick PC, as we did everything in 4k

crimson fiber
#

oh yea

#

gta is lagging but playable before i deleted it ofc

#

gta wasnt that fun

#

rdr2 is fun

#

hmm maybe western sahara

#

idk tbh

#

kinda new to the game tbh

devout turtle
#

well take your time. its the kinda game you play for the next decade

crimson fiber
#

woah

devout turtle
#

just enjoy what you like doing - it's a sandbox

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

also western sahara is probably closest to middle east dlc i can get so far

devout turtle
#

yep RHS is probably a good shout and 3CB mods

#

well optimised content for that kind of era

hallow parrot
#

DLC is not the only way to expand your game

crimson fiber
#

yea mods too

#

but idk what is a good one

#

that wont mess up my pc

devout turtle
#

i just added another 15 missions to our official community-made mission pack for SOG this month alone. we can't keep up with it, which is kinda cool.

#

that's an example of how the community extends the life of Arma

#

it's what keeps us all playing and creating, kinda like minecraft, but way cooler

crimson fiber
#

oh

devout turtle
#

https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/workshop/

Steam Community :: Arma 3

Arma 3 - Arma 3 Community Guide Serieshttp://store.steampowered.com/app/544940/About the GameExperience true combat gameplay in a massive military sandbox. Deploying a wide variety of single- and multiplayer content, over 20 vehicles and 40 weapons, and limitless opportunities for content creation, this is the PC’s premier military game. Authent...

crimson fiber
#

ooh

devout turtle
#

over 2000 weapon mods

#

etc etc

#

so just take your time, Arma is a very deep dive

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

hmm is there a soviet afghan war mod?

devout turtle
#

if you like the look of a dlc, follow it or add to wishlist, and you'll be notified when it is on sale. discounts are good.

crimson fiber
#

yea

devout turtle
#

just use the search tool there

#

and the filters on the right

crimson fiber
#

nice ty

#

found something intresting but idk if its gonna work since last uppdate was 2019

#

or hmm

#

nah idk

pastel pendant
crimson fiber
#

found this mod

#

gonna try it

#

but it needs a few mods

#

meh not too bad

#

6 gb

crimson fiber
#

nvmd alot more

steady nest
#

As per #csla_iron_curtain that CDLC just had its 1.1 update arrive earlier today... details at the links: https://dev.arma3.com/post/oprep-csla-iron-curtain-update-11 + https://arma3.com/news/arma-3-creator-dlc-csla-iron-curtain-update-11 + https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/235013-csla-iron-curtain-changelog/?do=findComment&comment=3468237

Arma 3
OPREP - CSLA IRON CURTAIN UPDATE 1.1 | Dev Hub | Arma 3

A review of the ČSLA Iron Curtain 1.1 Update

Arma 3
ARMA 3 CREATOR DLC: CSLA IRON CURTAIN UPDATE 1.1 | News | Arma 3

Arma 3 Creator DLC: ČSLA Iron Curtain received a content update today which adds new vehicles, weapons, equipment, missions, and more.

Bohemia Interactive Forums
CSLA Iron Curtain - Changelog

CSLA Studio will use this thread to provide information about future updates to the Creator DLC: CSLA Iron Curtain. Discussions about the updates are welcome in the relevant forum thread:  If you have any questions about Global Mobilization make sure you visit our FAQ page.

wraith sleet
#

it's really sad that nobody has the idea to release a creator dlc on operation desert storm it would be so fantastic😭 ☀️ 🌴

hallow parrot
#

Somebody probably have an idea about it. It is simply not just yet happened

wraith sleet
#

this dlc would have such a potential: factions maps ....

loud apex
#

There's still a chance

sinful cape
#

there is many factors involved in making a cdlc. biggest one is probably cost

#

sure many assets from a2 could be reused, but we have seen a couple times now what happens when you do that, even if you polish up the models.

#

besides, even polishing up old assets can cost quite a lot of money.

#

and if you don't reuse assets at all, there's so many things you have to make yourself, it's a huge task.

wraith sleet
#

Yes I can imagine the huge amount of work it takes, personally I have always supported creator dlc's because I think quality work deserves to be paid for. I have bought all creator dlc's and I would be willing to put the price of a real game for a creator dlc because quality is for me beyond mods. But I know that not everyone agrees with the creator dlc and I respect those points of view.

#

When I say paid the price of a real game it is for a creator dlc with rich content varied and quality of course

knotty ore
devout turtle
#

I actually did a costing exercise on something of similar scope and time period - came to $2m, which is what SOG cost.

#

Not easy to recruit and retain a team from part-time modders to invest $2m of time into a dlc.

knotty ore
#

Not that it has not been done a couple times now 😄 but it is pretty demanding for the teams

devout turtle
#

And its impossible to raise finance like that for an arma 3 dlc with the creator dlc terms as they are

#

We wouldnt repeat it though eh

knotty ore
#

No, that time has passed. Stars were aligned right for it to happen

devout turtle
#

As its not gonna hold our interest

#

Bigger fish to fry next

#

Yeah it was a cool moment in arma history

#

A lot of us in the community have been very frustrated with the creator dlc mechanics, but it has its place as a great chance for teams to stretch and flex their collective muscles and discover if they have a future making games together.

#

Or simply, as the programme was designed, for mod teams to earn some income for their work, while pushing the quality bar higher.

#

We always had loftier goals

#

And that has fuelled frustration with the mechanics, but its not bohemias fault, its just how the system was setup. Its not an innovation program, its just what it is.

#

So anyway making something on a large scale like desert storm - with a lot of vehicles and weapons and probably several maps, its kinda out of scope for the mechanics, unless you can work a miracle like some of us have.

sinful cape
#

on the other hand, the dlc mechanic in other games isnt necessarily different. there is only so much you can do with file compatibility.

#

it could be worse. look at call of duty map packs, which cost a crapton of money and only 10 people were playing them, since the majority didnt bought them 😄

devout turtle
#

An innovation program would be a great endeavour if bohemia could be convinced to do it in future:

  • regular events and virtual gatherings and talks on game related innovation and practices
  • finance and law workshops and support
  • software and pipeline systems support and experimentation
  • narrative design analysis and meeting experienced professional talent to hear how they work
  • financial mechanisms and fundraising support
  • small, medium and large scale game development grants, loans and investment brokerage
  • engine prototyping and game play mechanics assessments in different engines
  • support for cross collaboration and skill development and capacity expansion
  • understanding and preparing for exponential vs incremental growth models/ opportunities
#

In short a game dev hub

#

Led by professionals hired in from the industry

#

Who have years of experience with startups

#

But i dont think this is really what their strategy is. Its a shame as it could be really cool and spin out a bunch of games

#

(Cough like dayz and pubg before)

#

I have regular meetings with the coordinator of gamedev london which supports indie studios in the uk. Last week i showed him the actual work completed to take advantage of creative tax reliefs which last year made us about 40k and this year will make us about 70k. He had no idea this was a thing. There’s always good things that come out of a capacity building network sharing ideas and innovating as part of a hub.

#

Theres a cool one in stockholm and also in amsterdam

#

But they needn’t be geo-located

#

I worked partly in this area in my former career, so it comes naturally to mind to work like this. There are companies which do this - Midas in the UK is a good example - it has about 40 divisions - all in different service sectors - each has grown from an idea which one or two people pitched and they got financed and supported by the whole network to claim market share in their sector. Works really well.

#

Then you have innovation centres, often tacked onto universities, to incubate new high tech startups which exploit IP derived from scientific research. They end up making billions.

#

So why not a large game company spin off new startups and build capacity in each one through knowledge sharing, mentoring, skill sharing and financing? Seems like a no brainer to me

#

In our current model here there isn’t even a formal network to enable or promote knowledge sharing or skill sharing. We do a fair amount of it behind the scenes informally.

#

Seems like a wasted opportunity or just a lack of vision

sinful cape
#

problem is that all of this stuff is very different in every country

devout turtle
#

Clearly every creator dlc team is going to endure similar struggles, encounter common pitfalls, develop similar and different strategies, and have similar capacity issues (capability, manpower, finance, knowledge)

#

Having a central team coordinating our growth and development with that as a goal could help us all reach unforeseen heights of ambition

#

And generate long term revenues for the parent company

#

Its just not bohemias goal. They are simply helping mod teams earn some money.

#

I find it really frustrating due to my background in business support, as it seems like a huge opportunity for everyone to win.

#

What do you guys think? Do you want or need growth support? Organisational development mentoring? Help with financing? Etc or do you not have those kinds of ambitions?

silk jolt
#

Diverting from the topic. Instead of a Desert Storm CDLC, I'd very much like to see one in scope similar to WS but in the Arctic/Antarctic. But I guess, unless somebody is not working on it already for some time it's now too late …

devout turtle
#

See now that’s a sensible suggestion. Something the scale of WS in the snow would work great

#

A nice snowy map, some new snow and weather fx, a handful of characters, weapons and vehicles reskinned for white/grey camo and a mission

#

That is achievable and would be popular.

steady ravine
#

sets in Canada, Alaska, Siberia, Artic

knotty ore
#

Unfortunately snow is a bit problematic in Arma. 😅

steady ravine
#

changing rain particle with snow?

knotty ore
#

not that part

#

but making the ground work nice and feel like snow

#

as the ground is hard

tepid lance
#

Sinking into deep snow for people and vehicles for example.

sweet edge
#

custom models with Z offset so they sink underground and voila 😛

random crane
#

we have terrain deformation now but it likely wouldnt look as good as some engine driven solution

karmic harness
sinful cape
#

yup

silk jolt
#

Unfortunately if one started now it would be somehow ready in 3-4 years. I think WS was about that time frame. By then - I think - it's a little late, no?

random crane
random crane
#

character animations are something only very few people know how to do anymore for example

silk jolt
#

Because they're going to enfusion projects?

knotty ore
#

because the people with the skills have moved on from making Arma

karmic harness
#

Because they're dying of old age :P

knotty ore
#

and there never were many to begin with

silk jolt
#

And apparently no next gen.

random crane
#

pretty sure even at its peak you could count the number of people who knew how to do character anims on the fingers of two hands 😄

silk jolt
#

I see

tepid lance
#

IMO the animation system and creating data for it is the most challenging aspect RV modding has to offer.

devout turtle
#

and maybe AFM changes or completely new airframes. without Etienne making the wind tunnel simulation you're kinda stuck guessing which of 5 million data points to modify.

tepid lance
#

AFM/RotorLib is a good point yes. Also nightmare material 😄

olive vortex
#

Complex sound shaders are brain melting too

#

But yeah, animation configs, brrr

steady nest
wraith sleet
#

@devout turtle It is very interesting what you have explained. I don't have all this knowledge about the development sector. But I think that Arma is a game that has sold a lot so the potential of dlc buyers for a mod developer is there. With all the mods that exist on Arma I think a lot of creators on Arma should have taken a chance on creating dlc creators. Look at minecraft the paid mod system works very well and the number of mini studios producing minecraft dlc is huge. I know that minecraft is surely easier to exploit technically but when I see mods like faces of war, iron front, rhs ,cold war rearmed etc..... there are so many talented creators who could try the adventure. A mod like faces of war could have been released as a creator dlc with double the content it would have been great.

random crane
#

some (most) people are ok with just keeping this as a fun hobby, when you decide to go down the cdlc route it changes things cause it becomes a job pretty much

steady ravine
#

do CLDC team have a deadline from BI

random crane
#

granted you can still have fun with it, theres a lot more pressure and you have to put some effort in things that you normally can just ignore/halfass in mods

devout turtle
#

Yeah its a major choice to change up. And a lot of guys i asked way back when were politely declining to do it.

#

Im also thinking about attracting people into the community, so having a professional development and support hub would make it more attractive potentially

#

Engine and gameplay programmers and 3d artists and animators, vfx and sfx artists, etc

wraith sleet
#

Yes, I imagine that these obligations push many people away

fresh oasis
#

Yeah, it doesn't help that CDLCs (typically?) don't have full time employees either.

The end result is you're looking in a really small pool of people who have the skills, for people that have the desire and the time to work a CDLC alongside their other commitments.

#

Honestly, we're been really lucky to have the team we do working on prairie fire. Theres lots of incredibly skilled and experienced Arma modders who've made time to work on it... Looking back on it, it really is a miracle that it happened 😆

wraith sleet
#

I have a deep respect for the quality of the work done in all the creator dlc's that have been released I can't even imagine the amount of work done. Personally I spend a lot of time playing these dlc's they have really expanded the game experience on Arma3. 👏👏👏

solid slate
hallow parrot
#

Sounds like you have a nice news

steady ravine
#

do tell

loud apex
#

🤔

wraith sleet
#

we really need humvees with DSHK

hallow parrot
#

Huh?

steady ravine
#

CUP has that

fading solar
wraith sleet
#
  • the DUKE antenna is not removable
wraith sleet
# fading solar Heresy

middle eastern countries with humvees have dshks along with them. plus ukraine and many more countries.

hallow parrot
#

Good thing is, the source is (basically) shared by Bohemians

random crane
wraith sleet
#

Duke is not toggeable too

random crane
#

hmmm i think that is one of the uparmored ones, we probably never replaced those 🤔

#

oh well

wraith sleet
#

perhaps we'll see one of those in Arma 4… eventually.

hallow parrot
#

Why? Since Chair already implied it is possible...

steady ravine
#

Humve probably obsolete in Arma 4 (if it takes after arma 3)

lunar rivet
copper vigil
#

Is WS the last cdlc or are there more in the works?

knotty ore
prisma minnow
# copper vigil Is WS the last cdlc or are there more in the works?

There's one or more still under development but that's all we know so far. No ETA on whether we'll get more details in 2023 or beyond. No confirmation of what and how many may be on the way:

And there are still Creator DLC in the pipeline that we will share more information about when they can be confirmed by us and the third-party creator teams.

https://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00240

Arma 3 | Official Website
SITREP #00240 | Dev Hub | Arma 3 | Official Website

Creator DLC, Live Ops Status, Update 2.06 Preview

steady nest
#

It's a matter of when the devs and Bohemia Interactive (as its publisher) decide that the CDLC is ready for countdown-to-release and rolling out the marketing

copper vigil
ashen geyser
#

I know of at least 1 that's being worked on

#

No idea what it's about tho

#

But you know CDLCs are always prone to flopping before even seeing the light of day, so

knotty ore
sinful cape
#

only the ones that have released. we dont know how many didnt :>

#

despite of what some people keep saying, making a cdlc from beginning to the end is actually hard work.

knotty ore
#

True.

ashen geyser
#

Know of at least 1 that was cancelled

wraith sleet
#

i Hope it's ww2 cdlc, tbh

ashen geyser
#

There's already so many good WW2 mods tho

#

Each team is going to do what they want to do. But if I was going to make a CDLC I'd go for something as unique as possible. If you can't find it anywhere else you'll be more likely to buy it

#

Like Western Sahara, you won't find an SS-77 for Arma anywhere else, or a deployable ballistic shield, or an AP-5 gun drone

#

Or such a high quality dune desert terrain

#

But you can find a few dozen M16s or Vietnam / European terrains

#

If you're doing those you really have to excel in quality to set yourself apart, like SOG, but that is a huge undertaking

devout turtle
#

it certainly was for us - we're $2.3m in by now in terms of our budget

#

and many of us worked more hours than we billed

#

so expectations are probably too high for creator dlcs when they look at our scope and scale

#

a more modest scope is the only feasible way to deliver a profitable dlc now

#

we do expect to eventually break even but not for two more years

#

our players wishlist is quite telling too

#

The wishlist is quite extensive!
I recently summarised it as a single list of everything people asked for - and costed it up - it’s about another million bucks
We would need a miracle for that - like $3m more sales - as we only get 35% - that's 200,000 more sales, which at current rates is about another 3 years of sales to add to the two years we need for break even - so 5 years more consistent sales to pay for this wishlist.

Obviously we have focussed on the key assets as a priority for updates - just read the wishlist and play bingo on what we already added and you can see we made a lot of dreams come true already

We are exploring ways we can continue adding assets in future, but the creator dlc contract basically makes it financially impossible to continue past a certain point, so we need to get creative, which of course, is in our blood.

#

but there's no sense making more and more assets when sales are not strong enough to remotely pay it back, and of course we lose 65% to valve and bohemia, and we also have gradually increasing discounts each year

#

so - obvious point but worth stating - a finite scope is the only way to go to make profits

#

of course for a team of hardcore modders, we don't like stopping

#

but the existing mechanism is seriously limited in terms of what it can facilitate

#

we need a way for the hardcore fans to be able to subsidise the team

#

or a viral game mode / breakthrough

#

a better model for creator dlcs to be able to really satisfy fans would be for the creator teams to get their expenses covered before any profits were shared between BI and the creator

#

like, after a minimum clawback was achieved to cover BI expenses also

#

that would be a really nice model

#

we did ask for this waaay back in 2018 but it was a no-go unfortunately

#

so currently BI is well in profit on our project and we have two years to go to break even. so we are financially hamstrung to make more content even though players and creators want to continue

#

it's not BI's fault, it's just the limited vision of the creator DLC project and contracts

#

that was their goal, and they achieved it 😉

#

our goal, being creators is to continue creating

#

we just have to work out how we can do it

#

different goals basically - we are happy to continue recycling income into assets, and ignore profitability, but the team needs to be fully paid for its historical work before we can really add more content

sinful cape
#

one thing to consider is that for any new cdlc it is almost impossible to match e.g. the content size of GM.

devout turtle
#

but we can't as we only get a small share of the income

sinful cape
#

ppl will always compare new cdlc with older cdlc and then the price/content value won't match up and the crying starts again, etc etc 😄

prisma minnow
# ashen geyser There's already so many good WW2 mods tho

...especially when you consider that there's a thread devoted to cataloguing just WW2 mods.
https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/219483-all-arma-3-ww2-mods-compilation-list/
IMO a WW2 CDLC at this point would be flogging a dead horse.

Bohemia Interactive Forums
All Arma 3 WW2 Mods Compilation List

All Arma3 WW2 Mods Compilation List Last updated: November 12th, 2022 Current number of mods in this list: 428 Hello WW2 Fans! This compilation list was created from my frustration of steam Workshops lack of function to better sort items in collections, this sorted list is my Arma3 WW2 Steams Wor...

devout turtle
#

plus i think this is a major issue - Arma 3 on sale is $7

#

so when players buy the base game for $7, and they see a dlc for $20 they think hell no

#

even though it's half the price of the RRP of the base game

#

this illusion of lack of value for money haunts and cripples all creator dlcs over about a $10 price point

#

we have to work extra hard to convince people it's worth it

sinful cape
#

and then you see $10 blue color armor skin in other games

devout turtle
#

once they buy our dlc the vast majority of players say "this is an excellent dlc, worth it for the terrain alone, or the campaign alone, or the weapons alone, etc"

#

so they see the quality and value and love it

#

but convincing new customers to spend the cash on it is tough

#

i am currently wondering hard about how much discount might create a tipping point to generate an avalanche of new custom

#

or if it would even happen at all

#

like if we dropped the price to $10 would we see 4x more sales

#

i think probably not

#

we'd likely end up having longer to wait for that break-even point

#

agree - payday 2 - i spent maybe $180 on that game

#

and i only bought the good dlcs

#

they charge $4 for some crap player skins and people get them to support the studio

#

we'd love to do that but obviously with substantial content - like an aircraft carrier, and A4 and an A6 would be a great addon for $4.

#

something small like that, but fragmentation of the player base is tricky

#

and without creator DLC's as part of the base game model, it would never work well

#

it is what it is basically

#

flawed but works kinda ok

#

there are probably 30,000 players who would buy our dlc if we made a SP campaign, but the cost of doing it and testing it with Arma 3 AI would make it economically unfeasible

cinder oar
devout turtle
#

so we leave that up to the community who continue making quality SP content for us all to enjoy

cinder oar
devout turtle
#

nah it's ok i do waffle

#

your time period would be good for sure

cinder oar
#

i mean you wouldnt have to reinnvent the wheel just upgrade stuff

devout turtle
#

but the content would have to be better than RHS, which is getting close to or surpassing DLC quality already

cinder oar
#

yeah

devout turtle
#

so i think this is why nobody touched it

#

it's a bit saturated by CUP and RHS and 3CB - all great quality mods and teams

crimson fiber
#

i might buy western sahara since its cheapest, but do i need to download it from steam?

#

workshop

devout turtle
#

thats how A3 works yeah

#

you buy it on steam store

#

and it installs to your arma 3 folder in steam folder

crimson fiber
#

ooh

#

i though it was diffrent with Cdlc

random crane
devout turtle
#

you can also buy your key direct from bistore and give more money to the creators

random crane
#

the compat mod is basically just for non-owners to play with owners

devout turtle
#

although i imagine not many people do that

crimson fiber
#

cool

devout turtle
#

we should promote it more

crimson fiber
#

hmm dang

#

got only 10 euro

#

no cold war :/

devout turtle
#

wait til its on sale

#

just follow it or wishlist it and steam will email you

crimson fiber
#

aight

#

is S.O.G praire fire worth it

devout turtle
#

this is a good example of where im wondering about getting below that $10 price ceiling

crimson fiber
#

heard its only mp

hallow parrot
#

You're asking the question to the project lead himself 😉

devout turtle
#

the campaign is MP unless you choose to load johnnyboys excellent SP mod

crimson fiber
#

oh

devout turtle
#

the rest of the dlc is like any arma dlc, it works in SP of course

crimson fiber
#

aight

devout turtle
#

and there are hundreds of SP missions on the workshop using our dlc

crimson fiber
#

ooh

devout turtle
#

we just had some annoying people who slated the dlc because the campaign could not be made to work in SP

#

and they wouldn't understand or let it go

crimson fiber
#

gonna buy it later when i get money or if its gonna be 10 euro on steam on xmas sale

devout turtle
#

but the DLC of course works in SP

sinful cape
crimson fiber
devout turtle
#

oh really? i thought we were all going on there

sinful cape
#

thought so too, but nothing has happened

devout turtle
#

PM'd BI for that

crimson fiber
#

Oh dang 23 euro for praire fire, gotta see if i´m gonna have money for it even if its on sale

devout turtle
#

yeah just follow or wishlist and wait for sale emails

sweet edge
# crimson fiber Oh dang 23 euro for praire fire, gotta see if i´m gonna have money for it even i...

https://steamdb.info/app/1227700/ lowest price drop so far was 25%

SteamDB
Arma 3 Creator DLC: S.O.G. Prairie Fire (App 1227700)

Experience the intensity of the Vietnam War on a monumental scale. Featuring two vast terrains, a new co-op campaign, single/multiplayer scenarios, and dozens of weapons and vehicles, players can quell uprisings, run recon missions, and wage war in a historic take on Arma 3’s military sandbox.
Arma 3 Creator DLC: S.O.G. Prairie Fire Steam charts...

devout turtle
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URjLilx2UZ4

YouTube
OperatorDrewski
The Most Authentic Vietnam Huey Gunship Experience - Arma 3 SOG Pra...

►Follow my Twitch! https://www.twitch.tv/operatordrewski
►Checkout my Merch: https://www.bunkerbranding.com/pages/operator-drewski

Subscribe for more videos :D ► https://bit.ly/2QEpFh5
►Support my videos on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/OperatorDrewski
►Follow my Twitter! http://www.Twitter.com/OperatorDrewski
►Follow my Facebook! http://ww...

▶ Play video
#

meanwhile you can watch others having fun with it

crimson fiber
#

does the price vary on diffrent regions

sweet edge
#

yes, just check the link I gave you

crimson fiber
#

aight

#

nope sadly i wont have money to it

#

17 euro

#

is still much for me

devout turtle
#

holy crap its £3 in turkey

crimson fiber
#

since i dont got a income

devout turtle
#

amazingly cheap

crimson fiber
#

lets move to turkey

#

gonna drink rakija then i should sound like a turk

#

and move there

#

JK

#

i wont

#

northern europe is still better

devout turtle
#

well our next update has had about $230k spent on it, so we do prefer it when people pony up and support us 🙂

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

true

devout turtle
#

it's a shame there's no way for people to buy it on credit

sweet edge
devout turtle
#

like $2.50 a month

#

if BI store could offer that we might see a bunch more buyers

sweet edge
#

500% up for Argentina PES2_Cringe

crimson fiber
#

aye heres the neat part i use giftcards when i buy stuff

#

mostly 10 or 25 euro ones

devout turtle
#

i picked up RDR2 on 50% off and it was still £28. but its great fun and i consider it a value for money game simply for the campaign and the immersive storyline

crimson fiber
#

yea

devout turtle
#

however i would never pay £55 for a game

crimson fiber
#

same its too much

devout turtle
#

in a single payment

#

payday 2 got me hooked and i spent £180 on it and most of its micro dlcs

crimson fiber
#

oof

crimson fiber
devout turtle
#

but that was also fine, it still felt like value for money due to the replayability

#

so is SOG worth it? well it is if you like making missions or downloading missions from steam to play

crimson fiber
#

oh

devout turtle
#

because you get a lot of replay in arma due to the editor

crimson fiber
#

okay

#

ooh

#

hmm

#

i mostly want a nice map to play on

#

but idk which one

devout turtle
#

if you have a few friends to play the mp campaign with, then you can play and replay the missions weekly for over a year and not get bored

sweet edge
#

SOG has three

crimson fiber
devout turtle
#

you can join sogpf discord and find new ones ofc

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

im on that server

devout turtle
#

as arma is a peculiar game, it's not everyones cup of tea

#

it took me a lot of convincing to get it in early arma 1 days

#

but once i got it i was blown away by its grandeur

crimson fiber
#

wait how much did it cost to make S.O.G praire fire?

devout turtle
#

$2.3m as of xmas 2022

crimson fiber
#

are yall secret millionears

devout turtle
#

which is as far as our financial expenditure is modelled

#

nope

crimson fiber
#

oh

devout turtle
#

we invested our time based on IOU's basically

crimson fiber
#

ooh okay

devout turtle
#

and we get paid back from the income each quarter, the same percentage of our invoices is paid to everyone

crimson fiber
#

oh

#

cool

devout turtle
#

so we share the risk and reward equally

crimson fiber
#

thats good

devout turtle
#

it's a team effort

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

but iguess i can buy a cheaper dlc for now

#

i might get praire fire if there isnt any good Vietnam war mod

devout turtle
#

yeah people will still be playing our dlc for at least another 18 months / 2 years i expect

#

well there is unsung (which we also made)

crimson fiber
#

oh

devout turtle
#

so you can play that for free but the quality is not the same at all

#

and you can download the MP compatibility pack for free and try the DLC out in the editor

crimson fiber
#

yea i heard for a youtuber who said that dlc is often better than mods

devout turtle
#

and see if you like it enough to save up for it / get it gifted for xmas or birthday

#

mods cant compete with a $2m investment

#

nor should they

crimson fiber
#

hmm

#

true

copper vigil
#

So CDLC devs get no payment prior to release?

crimson fiber
#

iguess so

devout turtle
#

not a bean

#

we take 100% of the risk and get 35% of the income

copper vigil
#

that seems a tad bit stupid, to expect people to make a DLC but give them nothingin return until launch

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

what if ya would have gone bankrupt

devout turtle
#

i just wish all the stupid people who downvote creator DLC's because they lack this or that asset or feature would realise that lol

crimson fiber
#

yea

copper vigil
#

if something is sold as DLC it gets criticized as dlc

crimson fiber
#

yea

#

true

copper vigil
#

even if BI has a really awful system for paying their devs

devout turtle
#

because through their SPITE and crappy reviews they may cause creator dlc's to fail on day 1, even though the team is planning to add more but cannot due to the rules tell anyone about it

copper vigil
#

cough csla cough

devout turtle
#

well GM also got handled really unfairly too

copper vigil
#

Yeah but gm isnt sitting at mostly negative

#

CSLA still is

devout turtle
#

as it was first out, it got loads of negative press aimed at the creator DLC program as a whole

copper vigil
#

ive been critical of CSLA's 1.1 update but they got a raw deal

devout turtle
#

every creator DLC team is full of unsung heroes from the community - investing their time and efforts and dreams to make a cool expansion of arma

crimson fiber
#

yea but what happened with CSLA is it still bad?

devout turtle
#

and the very least that critics can do is to send their criticisms in through the proper channels but not punch the baby and write a negative steam review

#

because they stack up and can drown the baby at birth

#

it just gives the team no chance to recover

#

and continue

#

unless they have super strong will and vision like CSLA team clearly has

copper vigil
crimson fiber
copper vigil
#

they have fixed alot of the strange launch bugs

#

and they recently added some new content

devout turtle
#

we had over 50 artists on SOG, they have about 5. it's a totally incomparable setup

copper vigil
#

but its still far off from prerelease content they showed off

sweet edge
devout turtle
#

yeah

copper vigil
crimson fiber
#

whats better global mobilazation or iron curtain

devout turtle
#

GM is higher quality and was higher price, on sale now GM is very very good value for money as its much older than CSLA

#

so higher discounts

copper vigil
#

I like CSLA because it adds alot of American gear

devout turtle
#

yep each DLC has it's merits

copper vigil
#

by pure content GM

#

but hopefully CSLA can get another update "soon"

sweet edge
#

best option is to buy them all staresmile

copper vigil
#

or at least under a year and a half

crimson fiber
devout turtle
#

and gift them to friends too 🙂

copper vigil
#

and send rob 5 bucks via pay pal

devout turtle
#

if you love the dlc and want more of it

crimson fiber
#

i´m gonna rob a bank to get money for arma 3 dlc

devout turtle
#

no dont do that lol

sinful cape
#

in worst case you can just download the compatibility data on steam and check it out before buying

copper vigil
#

find his house and send him gift cards

devout turtle
#

nor that!

sweet edge
sinful cape
#

lots of refunds could be avoided if people would just look at the compat data first

copper vigil
#

he needs to make up that 2 million some how

devout turtle
#

would be a nightmare to handle with the company accounts

crimson fiber
copper vigil
#

So if this question can be answered, what is the review process like for updates?

devout turtle
#

we're doing ok, we just can't make the whole wishlist in any reasonable timeframe with the current financing model

copper vigil
#

like how long does that take on average

#

pls rob make high detail m48 patton modle

devout turtle
#

noted

#

so what do you mean by "review process"

#

also be aware we commissioned our first US tank in 2018, but the artist was a scheming crook who demanded payment up front halfway through its development

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so he got fired and we lost all momentum on it

copper vigil
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So when a update is in the works, how does BI keep check on the quality and give the ok on the update getting released?

devout turtle
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so even when you plan something, life can throw curveballs at you

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well i can only speak for us

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BI has access to our live build - whether they play it or not i have no idea

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when we get close to a release candidate we let them know and schedule in all the stages up to release

crimson fiber
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oof i forgot something, uuh what map can run with decent fps with a okay pc

devout turtle
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QA, localisation, final QA, closed beta, release, post-release hotfix

crimson fiber
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anyways gonna go shower

devout turtle
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all the creator DLC maps work with decent fps as far as i am aware

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not seeing many complaints about fps, except in 110 player missions like the one drewski just put out on youtube - organised by nemesis and liru and played by ZF and led by digby. that was a fun op, but 110 players causes fps to tank at times

crimson fiber
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oh

copper vigil
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ive had fps issues on cam lao nam but my pc is also dying a slow death so its to be expected

devout turtle
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also too many AI and too much vfx going on (especially anything with submunitions) can cause fps drops

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and AI trying to cross rivers can cause fps to drop by 10 frames

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so a lot depends on what you play and where

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if i load up cam lao nam, actually let me do it and i'll send a screenshot

crimson fiber
copper vigil
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you got pc herpes

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so sad

devout turtle
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spend your savings on a good antivirus

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it is worth every cent

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and avoid torrent / porn / cracks / whatever dodgy sites youve been visiting

crimson fiber
copper vigil
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Pc ram download no virus free 2022

crimson fiber
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anyways gonna shower

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i can smell my sweat

copper vigil
devout turtle
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so just placing a unit down in the middle of cam lao nam i get a smooth 75fps looking in any direction

copper vigil
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i had stutters in eden but im gonna blame that on my pc more than anything

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in saigon

devout turtle
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my graphics are on pretty high too

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yeah saigon will cause frame drops

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i guess my point is tha tthe forest is not responsible for low fps which a lot of people worry about

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the forest is better optimised than any built up areas

copper vigil
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is that a arma issue or just really good work on the teams part?

devout turtle
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we redesigned every tree and bush for better optimisation with AI too

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the terrain team spent a great deal of time doing heatmaps of the terrain

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checking fps in each location using tools they designed

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so the map has maybe twice as much content on it than tanoa but same or better performance

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48fps in Saigon, with drops to 40fps as i rotate through 360

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so add a bunch of AI trying to pathfind and poorly optimised mission scripts, and drop napalm or flechette rockets (which all use submunitions) and your fps is gonna take a nose dive to maybe 15-30

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which is still playable on most PCs

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but not ideal

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so it's a bit shall we say sensitive

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i noticed that other creator DLC towns have similar fps drops on their maps too when i tested them, and so do BI maps

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so it's nobodies fault, it's just arma 3's dated engine

sweet edge
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render distance can always be sacrificed for better fps, why would anyone need more than 1k for jungle or the city, unless you're flying

devout turtle
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so you have tobe a bit careful in built up areas with scripts and player and AI numbers

copper vigil
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think thats a reason why most cities are so small? always wished arma had bigger cities

devout turtle
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well it's also why i bought an I9 with the fastest cores

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and have arma 3 on an NVME drive

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so i played that 110 player mision last saturday and had no fps issues at all

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but some people said they had a slideshow going on like 8 fps

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yeah

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the fallujah map has enormous city design but most of the buildings are arma 2 simplicity

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no breakable windows or partial destruction models

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most of our buildings generally have cool features like climbable drain pipes, working doors, breaking glass etc

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so that has an impact

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in hindsight maybe we should not have createdsuch a huge airbase

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we could have made it smaller and better for fps