Yeah
#other_ip_topics
north cypress
wintry yoke
isn't it normally like $60 per hour?
north cypress
Looking back, I charged way too little for it
brave knot
any price is not worth the psychological torture of having to understand bad greek english and just say yes like a puppy
wintry yoke
perhaps in a company?
north cypress
I’m a uni student so freelance is all I can do
wintry yoke
ah fair enough
north cypress
And sadly all you end up getting as a fresh freelancer is yet another new hipster coffee shop wanting a site
brave knot
if you get in a young software house with a good PR you should be set for life
wintry yoke
you could try talk to some professors if you can help out with a project. In my uni I then get registered as student assistant and paid on 0 hour contract basis
it ain't much, but it's trustworthy supply of money
north cypress
That’s the plan. I’ve taken a module next semester to do project work. A lot of students get hired for uni projects out of that. And I’ll bet out of the 17 others I’m the only web dev
I’m currently making a generic community management tool for arma communities and then I’ll adapt for other use cases. That will hopefully be a good thing to have on my portfolio
wintry yoke
if you can get the more well-known communities to use, that's gonna be a huge extra 😉
north cypress
I don’t know of any who’d benefit haha
wintry yoke
doesn't that say a bit about the current status of the tool? 😛
once it's finished, "redo" that check
north cypress
Valid point haha
wintry yoke
some might consider their own rather outdated at that point 🙂
and there's where your tool comes in
north cypress
Looking to be going a step past the likes of PERSCOM. That’s my baseline
wintry yoke
perscom?
north cypress
It’s that thing you see a lot of American milsim communities using
It’s a plug-in for IPB forums
wintry yoke
I think I've never been in touch with US based milsims then
cursive sedge
I think we're quite far from IP related discussion now 😛
brave knot
speaking of a subject that was mentioned before
wouldn't youtubers count as monetizing ingame content?
inland sphinx
we already talked about that here above
maybe
technically yes, but practically.. A game dev would ofcourse want his game to be shown on youtube
brave knot
my bad
I though it got deleted
inland sphinx
@shell scaffold
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1786565465
@shell scaffold's JSRS
Enhanced Movement
Zade Backpack On Chest
ADV - ACE Splint
Advanced Towing
Advanced Slingloading
Blastcore
@shell scaffold Take this down immediately please.
Sad that I saw that you posted star wars stuff, and immediately assumed that you are illegally reuploading stuff and thus checked your steam profile, to find EXACTLY what I expected.
You are not only hurting your own reputation, but also the reputation of the whole star wars Arma scene.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1786718007
Contains teamspeak 3 installer, distributing/reuploading that is explicitly forbidden as per the teamspeak website
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1787154822
More jets from firewill.
TeTeT's Nimitz
shell scaffold
I did not know that contained the Teamspeak installer, that was an accident on my part then
And those were some good time ago, not used anymore
And as for the Star Wars stuff it was a config inheritance? What's wrong with that?
Or rather a model path
inland sphinx
Nah that was garrys mod, not Arma. Thats why I removed it
shell scaffold
As for the Garry's Mod stuff I did ask for permission from the owners
inland sphinx
if you have permission, why write
If the original owner wishes me to take this down, I'll do so immediately.
then? Doesn't sound like you have permission, if you had you know the original owner is fine with you uploading that
shell scaffold
On that one I contacted the owner and he didn't answer for like 2 weeks
Then I uploaded it like that
vivid musk
No answer is no permission
shell scaffold
As for the Echo Company Modpack that was to make it so the server had less addons, I was asked to do that and was only used by our small group
I know, those were mistakes I commited some time ago and should've taken down
They're not even used anymore
All of those were for local groups
inland sphinx
Non-Arma content is none of my business so I can't and wont tell you what to do on that
You cannot just upload other peoples stuff, Steam Subscriber agreement alone forbids that, as do our #rules
brave knot
doesnt it break disney's dystopic IP laws?
inland sphinx
Well its all gone now, so all good. Thanks
shell scaffold
The only thing I did regarding Star Wars Opposition was grab the model through the config viewer in the editor, make a new class inheriting a Blackfish and changed the model, but yeah I guess SWOP is like that
old jay
@shell scaffold All Star Wars content is prohibited by Disney, end of story. To add insult to injury, you then stole content from "Opposition"
shell scaffold
What do you mean stole content from opposition? It's 100% allowed to inherit a config class...? And do model= to an already existing model?
old jay
Are you 100% sure that what you inherited from them was not stolen? Everything else of theirs is.
The only thing I did regarding Star Wars Opposition was grab the model through the config viewer
shell scaffold
It's possible that the Lander model wasn't made by them, yeah, but I didn't steal anything from there or redistribute anything from there. I inherited from the Blackfish which is an Arma 3 Apex asset and merely did model= to the path for the Lander model.
The model path, not the model itself
Eden Editor's config viewer doesn't allow grabbing models
Otherwise people would've done it do the vanilla assets very easily
old jay
You are not only hurting your own reputation, but also the reputation of the whole star wars Arma scene.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1786718007
Contains teamspeak 3 installer, distributing/reuploading that is explicitly forbidden as per the teamspeak website
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1787106128
Firewills jets
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1787154822
More jets from firewill.
TeTeT's Nimitz```There's enough here to permanently ban you from the community already. How you thought ANY of that was acceptable is beyond me. And that's before speaking about Star Wars. Let this be a MASSIVE wake up call.
shell scaffold
Regarding the teamspeak installer I already said I didn't know it was there, as for the rest, I've apologized and explained that it was dumb, and was because the guys from the unit I was in some time ago thought compiling mods into a single addon would decrease server lag and would keep complaining, so that was the solution they came up with and I helped out, and all of those were taken down already.
old jay
As I stated, Let this be a MASSIVE wake up call.
wet narwhal
Never upload anything that ain't yours without any written consent of the respective copyright owner.
I think that sums it up completely and should be dummy proof
old jay
should be dummy proof Never underestimate the stupidity of the human race.
dark tulip
even better; read the EULA before, during and after buying/using something...
old jay
even better, common sense
wet narwhal
Never underestimate the stupidity of the human race.
NAILED IT
dull spear
Never upload anything -TO STEAM- that ain't yours without any written consent of the respective copyright owner.
if the license allows, you can upload to your Arma 3 sync, FTP, etc.
fiery egret
If the license allows (MIT for example) you can also upload to steam as well... It all depends on the license of the software in question
dark tulip
Technically also not, because Valve requires you to give full rights (without license!) on everything you upload.
Even Valve acknowledged that open source licences are not compatible with their EULA, including MIT, GPL, etc.
fiery egret
Even Valve acknowledged that open source licences are not compatible with their EULA, including MIT, GPL, etc.
[citation needed]
dark tulip
link is somewhere on this Discord...
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/uploading/distributing_opensource
And I was wrong about MIT. However GPL is not!
fiery egret
Btw people on this discord have also claimed that the above link pertains to game developers releasing their games on Steam and not Workshop content (although I agree that this probably is the closest to "valve's interpretation of the workshop rules" that we are going to get)
And also note that I was the one posting this link at least once, in this discord
dull spear
there is also a practical reality:
Valve has to state their EULA to avoid being sued. thats all there is to it from there end.
in fact they have all the motivation to get people to upload as much stuff on the platform as possible - legal or illegal.
as result the only take action if someone complains (DMCA claim).
again this does not imply to accept malicious behavior of people not caring about licenses or author rights or decisions.
at the same time it lays out why Valve and BI act, or rather not, and have set up their systems as is - its in their best interest.
however you should be honest enough to state this is your interpretation, based on your interest, how to read their EULA.
if you want to combat the rife abuse, you have to take meaningful measures, unless you want to continue to play the "whack a mole" game
dark tulip
Nice modpack: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1929831894
- ACE3
- ACEX
- CBA
- ADV Medical
- CUP (complete)
- Achilles
- CTab
- DUI
- Grad trenches
- ILBE
- JSRS
- MBG Buildings
- Med+ Burns
- TFAR Animations
- and more mods
- copyrighted music
My DMCA is being send...
inland sphinx
Please keep a link to the uploaders steam profile. So we can look lster
lean plover
inland sphinx
Thanka
wet gate
These people who reupload "mod packs" are kind of dumb. I can't imagine how many gigs that is.
dark tulip
it was about 6 Gb... and I downloaded it to see what was in it... hence the list
inland sphinx
Workshop crawler API ;) spares downloads
dark tulip
I use that to find the modpacks, but I always verify the contents (because for some reason I can't use deep=true)
inland sphinx
Heard you must donate to optixs patreon to be able to use that
dark tulip
doesn't matter, I can still see who takes my content 😉
wet gate
lol I get annoyed downloading 1 gig
patent copper
@dark tulip deep=true doesnt work for you when you try to pull the mods file list?
brave knot
ultimate reuploader strategy
steal so many mods that noone is willing to download 300 gigs just to check
wintry yoke
that's what we'll have the crawler for
inland sphinx
we~~'ll~~ have
wintry yoke
just API at the moment right? the front end page is offline
as in, can't enter the item link on website
inland sphinx
yeah
dark tulip
@patent copper When I do a call to /queries/by/item with deep=true I get a timeout (524: A timeout occurred) or another 5xx error.
The same call without deep=true returns in milliseconds.
patent copper
hm, the result set might be too big
@dark tulip what ID are you searching for on that request?
dark tulip
1875281645
And I have several items in not and sometimes use a specific versionId (to check older version). Although that doesn' make a difference
patent copper
@dark tulip ill look at it tomorrow, seems like some recursion bug somewhere
patent copper
it seems like the hashes of that mod are so generic it literally returns a good chunk of the database
which makes the whole thing time out eventually
dont know how to handle that properly to be honest, a response is made, its just that this request would take some time to finish
patent copper
I'll probably make it so hashes of your item that will return too many items are omitted from the request
primal stirrup
So someone from IIIE counter DMCA'd USP after they got their shit taken down from the workshop, do these guys thinks the ToS just don't apply to them or something?
dark tulip
@patent copper for me it currently works without the deep parameter, so no problem there.
Although if there's something I can modify in that mod to prevent that issue I'll be happy to make modifications.
patent copper
i set a threshold of max 1000 results per hash, if its over that it omits it from the query and gives you a error message that that hash was omitted
generally means that that hash is too generic
dark tulip
Omitted hash because result size of 1239 is over the threshold of 1000.
Omitted hash because result size of 306991 is over the threshold of 1000.
Omitted hash because result size of 37711 is over the threshold of 1000.
Yeah... I can see the problem
wintry yoke
@primal stirrup a false DMCA can be taken to court. There was a similar case with a false DMCA on RHS
didn't eventually go to court after the guilty individual apologized publicly
dark tulip
because that was a troll action...
dark tulip
I'm not familiar with the UnderSiege case, although based on what have shown it's probably some angry person who dislikes the mod or something. Especially because it's not the first time.
wintry yoke
I think personally it's just Frostbite from IIIE being a salty f*ck
dark tulip
and yet IIIE is online again (just got a message it's not compatible with A3)
wintry yoke
the incompatible one was never removed
you'll find USP devs and the IIIE account discussing here
dark tulip
thanks for that link... that is one of the most saltiest people I've seen in a long time...
wintry yoke
This whole ordeal with people stealing hard work from others is outright depressing...
dark tulip
I "only" have to file DMCA's for repacks, which usually is done by people who are just not reading...
But ripping content from other mods and trying to "defend" it by calling it "fair use"... that's a whole other story
primal stirrup
I feel like the only way for them to save face is to disassociate with whoever's been doing the ripping (knowingly or not) although I've got a guess that it's rotten to the core
errant pawn
It is often difficult for people to understand that digital theft is theft, and thus punishable.
zenith moss
fAiR uSe
primal stirrup
yo warden, where's you're copyright m8, it aint theft if it aint copyrighted, steam workshop agreement means nothing xD
dark tulip
if someone makes something, by default it's protected with copyright... unless otherwise stated
so, unless it has been released to the public to use however they want, it's protected under copyright and using it without permission is theft
errant pawn
Or just by reading the license underneath in the description, or by just understanding simple laws.
dark tulip
hell, even Fair Use is a licence form... which still means "no stealing"...
shell scaffold
@dark tulip Can you elaborate what mod repacking is? I'm very new to the modding side of arma
wintry yoke
@primal stirrup they can't disassociate if frostbite is their de facto leader
dense field
Can mean 2 things;
A) Taking 10 mods and putting all their contents into 1 mod eg "@mygroupsmodpack"
B) Unpacking a mod with one of the packing/unpacking tools, modifying the code etc and packing it again.
Both of these are usually done with the intent of distributing the content, which in the case of both A and B is always a breach of copyright/ steam EULA &TOS in the case of putting it on the workshop, or just copyright infringement if by some other method (unless the copyright specifically allows it)
@shell scaffold ^^
shell scaffold
Would it count if said modpack is to be used privately in a unit?
wintry yoke
It counts regardless of who uses it
dense field
unless you have written permission from every single dev of every mod team
wintry yoke
^
shell scaffold
Huh. Okay
wintry yoke
Got some stuff to delete now? 😉
dense field
Their is literally no reason to do either if you have legitimate intentions.
You can use workshop collections if your group uses the workshop, and you can use arma3sync or similar software to make it easy for your members to get the required mod.
And if you need to modify a mods contents for whatever reason, change values, add reskins or add new variants of a weapon/vehicle with a new skin, then you can use config.cpp patches.
If your running into the character limit issue in your servers command line you can change the mod folder names to @mod1, @mod2 etc. as its a char limit not a mod limit.
wintry yoke
Or just don't use so many mods 😁 however, a higher limit would be appreciated
shell scaffold
Nah I'm just new to the mod side of arma
opens steam workshop with malicious intent
zealous ore
@wintry yoke can i get a link towards that non compatible steam upload? - seems there is RHS content ripped in that as well
inland sphinx
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1768525657 @zealous ore
but I didn't see RHS while looking through
zealous ore
@inland sphinx cheers, will have a looky after it downloads
seems small stuff like my new stanag magazines for instance
where added to chestplates
inland sphinx
ah yeah, only checked for obvious/big things
zealous ore
this lad is such a cupcake
lean plover
don't use make CUPcakes bad... 😦
dark tulip
he didn't steal anything from CUP, so it has to be bad 🤣
abstract crest
I read that CUP was dead today... I think someone just told that dog...
zealous ore
@lean plover :)))
zealous ore
errant pawn
Just a rhetorical question, is in-game benefits (extra gear) through Patreon monetization?
I already know the answer, just need someone to confirm it for me.
abstract crest
You cannot give anything that gives someone an in-game advantage for money
zealous ore
@errant pawn the work done and available for patreon only members is derivative content
= not ok - in the particular case you are asking about
errant pawn
Thank you, I guess we both know what I'm on about. If anything I can explain the scenario with context images.
abstract crest
That's good.
timber elk
For those of you that don’t want to click on the link it says
“We have removed all RHS and USP disputed content from our Specialist Package. We apologize for using your content, and thank you for pointing it out to us. Please let us know if there are any other issues, and we will remove it promptly.”
zealous ore
that is false, i just downloaded the same shit from the same google drive link
that is under this bloke's name
vivid dagger
The google drive has been taken down (it wasn't hosted by Frost) and any local copies are to be destroyed
I just want to issue an apology on behalf of the Echelon International community and assure everyone that while our community remains split on the issue, many of the members, myself included, do not support Fros7bite in this dispute and have made these concerns known to him.
Many of us remain in the unit for the sole reason that we enjoy the operations hosted by the unit and maintain many friendships and bonds with other members. We have openly criticized the decisions made by Fros7bite and in a community meeting this evening informed him that we would rather all of the disputed content be removed than continue with the drama these items have caused.
I can personally say that I fundamentally disagree with the way Fros7bite has been conducting the unit in regards to this issue and have told him as much. I will not continue to represent the community as a Coordinator, friendships be damned, if he continues to direct the community in a negative way and blatantly disregard the criticisms and concerns of the greater Arma 3 community and valued developers or community creators.
Daniel and I are diametrically opposed in this dispute and while a number of the members of Echelon support him in this dispute for many reasons, a number of members reaching even the highest staff ranks of the unit have openly criticized his actions and will continue to. We apologize again for all of the drama and negativity this has brought. In the end, we're all here to play and enjoy the game.
vivid dagger
Trust me, a lot of us wish it could be resolved easily and without legal action as well
But you guys have to do what you have to do
inland sphinx
For those of you that don’t want to click on the link it says
Or for those of us that cannot read it because he has deleted all his posts 😄
latent iris
How childish.
zealous ore
he did that numerous times yesterday, as if i didn’t screenshot the dms with him
austere hare
On the subject of screenshots, either if they are hosted on Steam or on social medial like Twitter, if someone is clearly making screenshots with ripped content in them, is there much the original mod maker can do about it? (Getting rather annoyed myself at how many of my .p3d files are getting ripped open for people to make changes)
zealous ore
unless these are redistributed further, no, not really
austere hare
Thanks for the reply. Thought so. Annoying that people are posting evidence of reverse engineering .p3d files!
wintry yoke
attention seekers need that attention I suppose
zealous ore
inland sphinx
🍿
warm dew
proud helm
first time i ever read the RHS EULA ... and noticed something odd here ...
- charging players specific amounts to access or have priority while connecting to a server```
The latter part actually is potentially problematic for pretty much any unit out there where clan members pay a fee into a clan "bank account" and gets prioritized above non-clan members who join
which is from my experience ... all of themBohemia allows that but nothing "problematic" about RHS forbidding it... That is their choice ofc
inland sphinx
you still need monetization approval for that tho
if you need to essentially pay to be allowed on the server
abstract crest
Yes, ofc
abstract crest
I do... 😉 Pay attention to it I mean...
zealous ore
@proud helm it isn't about i owning a server, and allowing my clan to join that before anyone else
or kicking someone to make space for my squadies / clan members
it is about paid memberships disguised as donations
proud helm
well, it should be stated there explicitly then
as that is indeed missleading
though ... nobody is reading that anyways ... neither do i own a server or am part of a community as of now
zealous ore
if i pay monthly a fee that goes under "donations", i have priority access.
clan/squad member or not
i have seen all sorts of disguised monetization schemes
vivid dagger
Fros7bite has stepped down as the director of Echelon International effective immediately.
We want to again restate that Echelon International's members were not on his side during these legal disputes and many of our members felt betrayed by his deception and his attempt to defend himself during these disputes by retracting all of the promises and guarantees he'd made to us.
We will be rebranding our unit over the next few days and distancing ourselves from this dispute and from Fros7bite. We are also in discussions with members of the RHS and USP teams and future operation of the group, now identified as Epsilon Security Group, will be in cooperation and compliance with both of these teams.
I would like to apologize again on behalf of our community for these ongoing issues and would appreciate our members and the community no longer being associated to Fros7bite or his actions. They are not in keeping with the respect and admiration that we have for teams such as USP and RHS and this decision has come as a direct result of a demand from the members of the community.
Thank you again to @zealous ore and @errant pawn for being so open to discussing this issue with members of the community and for understanding that many of our members were just as upset by these developments as everyone else.
People are getting their ranks and roles reinstated after leaving due to Frost's behavior. When he decides to actually quit the server is up to him, but the transition of the server, wiki, and Arma server are happening currently
errant kettle
yea, he is stepping down for real
dark tulip
... you can't change a whole community in a few minutes, that will take time...
I wish all the luck to ESG going through all of this and keeping up the good work and communication with RHS, USP and other content creators.
vivid dagger
We're currently working on getting everything transferred to the new owner, rebranding, and sanitizing all of the previous assets to remove the past name, logo and anything associated to Frost
It will take time
wintry yoke
wonder what Fros7bite will be doing now
winter perch
hey guys what's going on in this thr- 
wintry yoke
the hell's that icon?
winter perch
inland sphinx
Fros7bite has stepped down as the director of Echelon International effective immediately.
Good, but doesn't really put it in a good light that he has now uploaded the ripped sources of his problematic mods to the units google drive and is telling everyone "grab backups of it now, before I delete it" ...
wintry yoke
Oh no...
wintry glade
@vivid dagger you guys better have his patreon taken down sooner than later too
Reading the patreon and not seeing echelon on the approved monetization list it sounds like a monetization violation to offer in-game cosmetics for monthly subscription fee
dark tulip
^^ actually, that was not an issue. All he did was making items with the name of the subscriber, and put them in a free mod which everyone could download.
Although why would you want to walk around with the name of someone else on your gear...
Of course... if the items were ripped, there's a different issue 😉
wintry glade
Either way, it's in his name and names the community.
dark tulip
probably someone crossposting
wintry yoke
hm aight
Anyway, they go under a different name now, distanced from the IIIE disasters
@wintry glade
dark tulip
but to answer your question: it's now Epsilon Security Group with new leadership
and Frostbite is out of it completely
wintry yoke
so what's he doing now? (Frostbite)
dark tulip
crying in a corning, changing his name and trying to do it again?
inland sphinx
as far as I heard, he only left because hes starting a family (Hah, for sure) and he will be deleting his discord account.
wintry yoke
that's a strange reason, but OK
wintry glade
@wintry yoke fair enough
And yeah, I guess it depends on how hard he's gonna get slapped by RHS' lawyer
wintry yoke
I think a recent twitter screenshot confirmed that all USP and RHS stuff would be removed?
so I assume the slappening already happened
vivid dagger
Whatever Frost has or hasn't deleted is beyond our control at this point, he's no longer affiliated with the group aside from being in the Discord server for the transition period
We won't be using the assets he sent to us, and his patreon has no affiliation with the new group as none of the money there would even be sent to the new owner. We've told everyone to stop funding it
timber elk
@inland sphinx the google drive you’re referencing has lore and basic military formations. No modpack associated with it. All drive links to any form of modpack we’re disabled and local copies were supposed to be destroyed. Nothing of the sort will be allowed on the new units server.
inland sphinx
the google drive you’re referencing has lore and basic military formations. No modpack associated with it.
Screenshot from the drive I'm referencing:
@IIIE Operator Package contains the workshop upload, with tons of ripped models inside it.
Source folder contains source files of the ripped models.
Data folder contains even more source files of ripped models
timber elk
“Nothing of the sort will be allowed on the new units server”
I will concede that I said no modpack associated with it. I was mistaken.
inland sphinx
He is also sharing other stuff there, like paid content from the BI store, is being redistributed in there for free.
But I assume he'll take it down tomorrow and till then BI won't get a DMCA going
timber elk
Like SpitzerFX said above that’s beyond our control and he is no longer affiliated.
vivid dagger
All of that stuff is currently off the server, out of the mod pack, and won't be used
I believe Frost said that Google Drive will be going down Thursday
wintry glade
Welp, if you want an advice: just make a steam worshop collection and start running with that
With some official mods of course
zealous ore
@wintry glade And yeah, I guess it depends on how hard he's gonna get slapped by RHS' lawyer that already happened to some degree
wintry glade
I mean he threatened legal action. I would expect that lawyer would be like "ok, since you asked for me"
zealous ore
he admitted to ducking up after he managed to make a fool of himself by sending that message
wintry yoke
@inland sphinx is there a reason to let the deletion wait until 'tomorrow', and not immediately? 🤔 I'm a bit confused why BI (or any other affected party) would give him time to distribute it amongst friends etc
inland sphinx
ask him
he said he'll delete it tomorrow
A DMCA takes more than 24 hours I assume
wintry yoke
Hm, so in a week or so someone not frostbite might be uploading it again then?
inland sphinx
yup
zenith moss
Well he told everyone to save what they wanted and specifically mentioned the mods lol
The dudes a shitbag
brave knot
can't the legal team take action on his IP so he can't just change account every time he gets busted?
wintry yoke
some ISP allow public IP changes
errant pawn
If he does it again, USP will pick up where they left off. I assume RHS will do the same. So not too worried there.
brave knot
hopefully noone is that insistent to go through all that trouble
zealous ore
server provide, ISP, google, patreon, etc, they all need to take DMCAs seriously
there are no more files that belong to me in person or RHS for that matter that i can find, only BI's
wintry glade
@errant pawn yeah but imagine a world where mod makers can make mods and not chase people like this in their already limited time
vivid dagger
Frost intended to have the new, rebranded unit use the old Echelon Operator Pack (rebranded) but not use the Specialist Pack, since that was what had been contested by the USP and RHS teams and dealt with most recently and he still believes BI doesn't care about the other pack
We've unanimously agreed however, that we are not using either pack
We'll be discussing tomorrow what mods we'll be adding (likely USP and MLO,) but we will not be using any of the items from the old Echelon packs, including the assets owned by USP, RHS, or BI
Aside from that, what Frost does on his end is completely his concern, not ours, we want nothing to do with it
zealous ore
yeah please, let's not bring everyone into this dispute, that was never with an entire group, but with a single person to begin with.
despite him talking back like he had the entire group's support
which wasn't the case, hence the current situation
wintry glade
He is also a very bad wikipedist
wintry yoke
what makes you say that
wintry glade
Tried to make article about his echelon group, used misleading or self-published primary sources and put bohemia, discord and radio arma (talked to flash, they had just an interview similar to us, no partnership)
Overall poorly sourced presumably advertisement attempt
Got marked for deletion fast, tried to circumvent by moving it to draft area
wintry yoke
ping malfunction?
wintry glade
Yeah
wintry yoke
well
narcissism springs to mind reading that...
of course his name was in there as well?
wintry glade
He used account "fros7bite" to do the edits
wintry yoke
nah I mean specifically mention he's the CO
wintry glade
And if his name is "Daniel Niszcz" (taken from the wiki page) then yes
Here's the fun read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft%3AEchelon_International
inland sphinx
bad
inland sphinx
Company size: 1001-5000 employees
uh...
fiery condor
Honestly it isn't the first time I seen groups like that.
wintry yoke
and how the **** can you attribute a screenshot to your unit
wintry glade
Or more like he of course
fiery condor
I know another group. Same shit, act like they are some E-sports league, but really just like 100 members that play derp ops on Zues.
wintry yoke
Sorry to say, but the article reads like written by a delusional
obsidian cypress
Also on the wiki page:
Partners
Bohemia Interactive
Discord
Radio Arma
sure
fiery condor
lol his work history XD
Isn't it illegal in Canada to pretend your a government worker?
inland sphinx
The article was written by a guy sitting on the loosing end of multiple DMCA's with lawyers ready to jump in, who then threatened to send his lawyers onto the other party of "defamatory" remarks about him which were literally just stating literally what he was doing
wintry yoke
did he even have any lawyers?
fiery condor
If you want a good IP story.
We were getting tired of this one starsim group that basically doesn't know the concept of giving credit to anyone. Would literally make a texture mod for our mod, and change a few stats. Then pretend like they did the whole mod itself.
Keep in mind it wasn't super well hidden, and I even added a note saying //mod specific config. So you would think anybody that knew their config work would either just delete it, or ask us what it does. But nope they just copy and paste away, saying how they made their own much improved ACE version, ect.
fiery condor
I think you can license your own set ups, but I didn't get that deep into it. The main point was to basically oust them about not giving us credit for our work. They constantly would tell us we didn't know how to mod, ect.
wintry yoke
iirc you're not allowed to change the license on ACE stuff but I could be wrong
fiery condor
redistribute any combination of the .pbo-files of the finished product
without having to share your source code, as long as you do not modify the
source code of the individual modules.```says nothing about changing the license, right?
fiery condor
The thing is we were not merging ACE
I just wrote a compatibility pack, aka my own mod.
wintry yoke
oh then you're fine
fiery condor
Yea
wintry yoke
I thought it was an ACE3 derivative
fiery condor
Nope, I made it a requirement that any unit that made a copy of my mod had to keep it public on Github.
Which of course, they didn't.
wintry yoke
well that's a clear violation of license
fiery condor
Yea, and I actually decided to be nice and not mention or take action against them.
wintry yoke
maybe it's time to do it
fiery condor
Eh, I got my revenge on it already. 😛
wintry yoke
but you'll find some guy with the argument y u mad? is just game
fiery condor
Oh yea, trust me I lit a shitstorm.
We had some conversation with other people about the project. I mention something like "Yea, only one group violented the license" and the idiot was like "What group is that?" XD
wintry yoke
said idiot was part of said group?
fiery condor
Yep AND the publisher of their mod.
shell scaffold
@vivid dagger Is there any specific reason y'all can't just make a collection on workshop instead of a mod pack?
wintry yoke
do we have a facepalm emoticon?
shell scaffold
🤦♂️
wintry yoke
very nice
@shell scaffold I think he means a steam workshop mod collection
not one of them Altis Life modpacks
shell scaffold
Ah, are you not able to add RHS to a collection?
wintry yoke
of course he is
vivid dagger
We're going to have about 70 mods in a preset that the unit will use, that is what I meant
Not that we're making our own mod with other people's assets
wintry yoke
I think even IIIE had a regular steam workshop collection
vivid dagger
Correct
We'll have that as well as a launcher preset that is given to members, as per usual
We're discussing tomorrow what mods exactly will be in it
inland sphinx
@shell scaffold they already have a collection on workshop
shell scaffold
Ah sorry I was a bit confused
wintry yoke
Perhaps further questioning of ESG should be in PMs
vivid dagger
the non-existent Echelon has a workshop collection, Sigma doesn't
we haven't decided on our modlist yet
wintry yoke
use ACRE just to piss off dedmen 😛
inland sphinx
They didn't reupload rhs or anything directly. Their leader ripped models from it, modified some, and reuploaded them as their
own.
@ lukas
wintry yoke
beta or regular?
shell scaffold
Ah gotcha Dedmen
wintry yoke
@vivid dagger if it's the non-beta version of TFAR you've been using, give the BETA version a go. It's much more stable and feature-rich
vivid dagger
we've been using the beta version
wintry yoke
Hm
inland sphinx
beta crashes if you open second server tab. I'll fix that eventually
wintry yoke
second server tab?
vivid dagger
I'm not sure exactly what the issue is, it just crashed teamspeak when the server tried to load TFAR
fiery condor
How many players Spitzer?
vivid dagger
I wasn't there to witness it, just got reports about it
wintry yoke
Lads, troubleshooting maybe not in this channel 😛
inland sphinx
tru ^^
vivid dagger
I think it's working now anyway, we have an operation ongoing on the new IP currently
wintry yoke
Dedmen has this weird discord of his where he can help 😄
(if you need the rules and faq, that is)
inland sphinx
I probably can't, cuz teamspeak stoopid with crashes.
But #notroubleshootinghere 😄
brave knot
wait they have a wikipedia page?
I don't wanna say cringe but I'm kinda rubbing my teeth out of awkwardness
wintry yoke
dedmen, what's this second server tab you mentioned though?
brave knot
1500 alt profiles
vivid dagger
He did a lot of that while he ran the unit, kinda LARPing that Echelon was a real PMC
he does own a business IRL with the same name, but I mean
inland sphinx
dedmen, what's this second server tab you mentioned though?
teamspeak can connect to multiple servers at once, in multiple tabs, and you can switch between them
wintry yoke
oh I see
he does own a business IRL with the same name, but I mean
Not a business in ripping models I hope 😄
brave knot
I'm crawling in fetal position out of embarassment
inland sphinx
welp good night guys, have a nice weekend
wintry yoke
it's weekend for you already? D:
brave knot
I feel like none of this stuff belongs to this channel
surreal yacht
lyric crow
Hi i have question i want to start arma 3 unit and need to hire a developer to help me . If i accidently hire someone who use stolen stuff will i immediately get battleye ban? Or will bohemia let me chance to explain or remove the stuff? I have been told problems like this with developers is a problem so that is why i ask before i decide to make a server
dark tulip
I won't ask why you would need a developer with stolen content for a unit, because I don't see how that's related...
But to answer your questions:
- No, you can't get a BattleEye ban from using illegal assets, only when you use cheats/hacks/etc.
- Bohemia won't ask anything and will only interfere when you knowingly break the EULA and make money with it. However other developers and the Arma community will make sure your content won't be online and you will get banned from the forums and this Discord.
- Yes, it happens a lot that people steal stuff from others, so make sure you know what you buy and that the devs are able to prove that it's really theirs.
brave knot
I think it was just a question
lyric crow
No i mean just in case if this happen would i be able to defend myself but thank you for your answer 🙂
willow crane
Of course you get a chance to give your side of the story. But also remember ignorance is not a defence.
lyric crow
People say alot they have got introuble for this because they didnt know they developer used stuff that wasnt allowed
lean plover
No i mean just in case if this happen would i be able to defend myself but thank you for your answer 🙂
as soon as your name stands for it, you are also responsible for it
willow crane
Ok lets turns this around.... Its your responsibility to make sure your content is not stolen. No one else's.
brave knot
I think BI will assume you check the stuff you're publishing
lyric crow
Is there maybe a sheet or something where theres developers who can be trusted with jobs ?
inland sphinx
If it's published in your name, then sure you will get the blame in the end
The devs who can be trusted, don't have time for your stuff
lean plover
Is there maybe a sheet or something where theres developers who can be trusted with jobs ?
no...
but you can ask on this discord if the dev in question is known
and if he has a reputation
good or bad...
lyric crow
Ah i see ok thank you for your assistance
lean plover
👍
zealous ore
@dark tulip
1) No, you can't get a BattleEye ban from using illegal assets, only when you use cheats/hacks/etc.
actually, you can, since you can get someone manually banned via BE
2) Bohemia won't ask anything and will only interfere when you knowingly break the EULA and make money with it. However other developers and the Arma community will make sure your content won't be online and you will get banned from the forums and this Discord.
false again. will take some time for them do to it, but well, it happened before
dark tulip
For 1) to happen you will need to do some very heavy damage towards BI ... And I haven't heard of any case where ripped content resulted in a BE ban (hell... even Frostbite is still alive and kicking)...
And the same for 2), where the community is reacting way faster and way harder than BI, and won't happen from buying ripped assets, unless (and which I also wrote) you do it knowingly and monetize it.
zealous ore
@dark tulip they usually ban servers, not users. I can give you countless examples - > most life communities that have BE off to begin with
dark tulip
so I'm still not wrong...
zealous ore
they have BE banned servers running ripped content.
dark tulip
Bohemia won't ask anything and will only interfere when you knowingly break the EULA and make money with it.
strange shadow
or if someone reportsto them
brave knot
manually banned via battleye?
zealous ore
yeah
brave knot
what else aside from hacking can you report to BE?
zealous ore
you report directly to BI, not BE
dense field
chances are that anyone you have to pay will be dodgy though, most devs do it out of love for the game, not for money
brave knot
I mean, what else aside from hacking does BE care about and considers ban worthy?
dark tulip
BE... nothing.... it's anti-cheat/hack, nothing more...
However game devs (like BI) can ask BE to enforce a custom ban on someone who shouldn't have access to the game anymore (like breaking EULA)
brave knot
oh I see, thanks
dense field
wont stop you joining/hosting non be servers though
dark tulip
BE can also send mail to Valve 😉 and remove game from Steam
willow crane
You realise that BE is a service developers pay for right? And that they have some degree of control of the Black & Whitelists?
brave knot
I just flashed the eula problem I had reported a while ago and this would have been the perfect solution
zealous ore
it's hardly a perfect solution
i won't get into details about way you can work around any BE bans, but is 100% possible
abstract crest
'BE can also send mail to Valve wink and remove game from Steam' valve explicitly say that you can only be banned from online play not offline in that game ban info someone posted the other day btw
dark tulip
But BI can still deactivate that specific key which disables the game for that user...
However only Valve can see that, and therefor need their help.
I'm not talking about a full Steam ban
strange shadow
full steam ban needs to drastically breach steam terms
fiery condor
Removing a game from the purchaser is a huge no no.
Support and Online sure. But yea, that is like Microsoft coming into your house, and confiscating your Halo game because they banned you from Xbox live.
wintry yoke
But they ought to remove your access any HALO related platforms
In steam case; the workshop for A3
wintry yoke
Of course
Though they don’t lose money over removing access to the workshop
User already paid
And can’t get a refund after 2h of playing
fiery condor
Eh you can, you just gripe enough 😛
If you ask for Steam credit they are usually fine with it. I done it for Rainbow 6 Siege
wintry yoke
I just got refused after playing 3h of insurgency sandstorm
fiery condor
Yea, I'm sure it's case by case.
I simply told them I spent the first few hours in SP. Then when I finally made it to MP realized it was a gear grind fest that didn't suit my taste for games.
wintry yoke
Hm they didn’t like my reason of all empty EU servers then
fiery condor
But yea, the sad reality is. The IP issues in the workshop really have zero to no value of monetary damages. Why that shouldn't say people should be free to do whatever. Valve really won't bother with it unless it effects them directly or effects the client with measured cash losses.
wintry yoke
Ah well we can always dream...
fiery condor
Want me to go knock on their office? It's like 30mins away from me.
Be like Gabe, Why U no Fix XD
wintry yoke
‘Y u no care for modders and their IP’
fiery condor
Actually, now that I think about it.
That might be worth a trip for some of these companies.
In person meetings are a lot more powerful then e-mails.
wintry yoke
If they let you in, that is
fiery condor
It wouldnt be me, it would have to be BI or a client in general
wintry yoke
Does BI care enough though?
strange shadow
according to all my friends who quit doing this cause ppls stealing their artwork? no
warm dew
Anyone knows who handles bushlurker's ip since he passed away? Someone reuploaded one of his maps https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934418730&searchtext=
brave knot
at least he does aknowledge its from him. not sure what were his rules about reupload
inland sphinx
afaik bushlurker wanted his stuff to be used and kept alive
warm dew
ho ok, just wasn't sure since most people don't allow reuploads (with reason)
inland sphinx
still violates the steam subscriber agreement of course
dark tulip
The terrain used to be on the Workshop, released by Pomi Git (co-dev on terrain), however since the terrain is based on Tatooine (you know, from Star Wars) to be released together with one of the (many) SW mods, it got removed again to prevent issues with LucasArt/Disney..
So it's against EULA (due to not owning content) and questionable regarding SW IP.
elfin coral
@warm dew you can PM Pomi on the forums https://forums.bohemia.net/profile/786669-pomi-git/
And given what he said in this thread I'm sure it will be removed https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/202651-hanters-gorge-terrain-by-bushlurker/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-3201409
and failing that @prime mulch is still around who I'm sure could contact Pomi
brave knot
cant they just reuplad it and call it something else?
on armaholic they're called like star trek planets
vast stump
Or just make new maps 👀
lyric crow
there is community I think has reuploaded with no permissions from creators. how can I make sure if they have or haven't had permission?
old jay
Ask the original author
If you are unsure of the author, link it here so that many eyes can look at it.
lyric crow
should I list the mods? or just link to ws?
old jay
Just link to it
vast stump
Given the theme,not surprising..
lean plover
Hehe... lol... life community is ripping another life community that was ripping another community
Tbh, no F given
brave knot
DMCA ouroboros
lean plover
oroboros? I know it as circle jerking
inland sphinx
no they don't have permission, and the funny thing is I even got a email that their server is now life
brave knot
I was wondering
paid scripting is not a violation of eulas
is paid terrain making allowed?
half panther
🤔
inland sphinx
and there aren't even third party tools you could use instead
vast stump
Source material to some extent can be prepared in various terrain generators and tools without them going into the Arma pipeline but that's about it.
Buying that does not really help anything though as quite integral part of terrain making is learning the workflow so you can actually do anything.
Selling a "ready terrain" is eula violation and quite common in the life circles where they peddle the same worthless and stolen crappy files to scam ppl out of their money.
brave knot
oh I see, thanks
dense field
shouldn't that guy who's been running his mouth in #arma3_terrain get banned then..
vast stump
He bought it so no. The seller is the one breaking eula if I've understood it right.
old jay
If he knew it was, thats an entirely different story
old jay
@dense field hes since been banned.
strange shadow
how he behaved should be enough for that tho 😛 not that he bought rubbbish
abstract crest
That was why he got banned... not for buying garbage
old jay
tbf, possession of stolen property will still get you arrested.
shell scaffold
I wish I saw this Fros7bite meme before https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/581607241166225418/654081262411186205/IMG_20191210_230515.jpg?width=742&height=676
strange shadow
ouch
velvet obsidian
Would there be a copyright issue if I were to host a public GitHub repository with one, two, or all of the following types of content?
2. Scripts other people made but we edited to fit my unit's demands
3. Scripts other people made, unedited, with credits and all
I'd assume 3. is an obvious no-no and a simple workaround could be links to the original script. But what are the rules around 2.?
inland sphinx
giving credits doesn't give you permission to share other peoples stuff
giving credits also doesn't give you permission to edit other peoples stuff which you apparently did for 2.
its actually quite a problem, many people post scripts in public forums or elsewhere, for the purpose that others will use and adapt them. But people very rarely include a license or permission with their post. So even though they wanted people to use it, they never gave permission to do so
so in most cases its actually perfectly fine, but if the original author didn't give permission, and doesn't like you taking his stuff he could drag you to court if he wanted to
velvet obsidian
Ah, understood. So, unless the OP explicitly mentions that a license or permission, it's a no-no to edit. Just to be sure, is it the distribution or the edit that is the problem? I'd assume the former.
inland sphinx
is it the distribution or the edit that is the problem
both the same
even private edits that noone else sees, are legally not allowed if you don't have permission
although obviously, if noone knows noone can punish you for it
If noone ever finds out, its perfectly fine to be a serial killer
velvet obsidian
That makes sense. I've worried this was the case. Is there a workaround for, at the least, scripts that have no license? Evidently it is not wrong to link the original post. What if I were, next to the link, provided the instructions on how to edit the files to meet one's demands?
inland sphinx
What if I were, next to the link, provided the instructions on how to edit the files to meet one's demands?
I think that should be legally safe
but still pretty stupid and cumbersome 😄 but thats legal stuff for ya 😄
velvet obsidian
Yeah, it is, but I feel like it could be of great use for my unit and anyone else who would like to use our repository contents.
wintry yoke
Why not start out with a private one then?
velvet obsidian
Several reasons:
- Costs money that I do not feel like spending
- Still has legal issues since it is still being distributed and edited. In a worse scenario, if someone was leaving your unit and really wanted to roughen you up, they could blackmail you by threatening to report the illegal private repository.
- I want to help not only my unit but the community as well
wintry yoke
Then just post the stuff that wasn't copied from others?
velvet obsidian
I am not understanding you. What do you mean?
wintry yoke
(so case 1)
inland sphinx
do the link + guide to edit thing, until you get permission from the author to redistribute it
velvet obsidian
Yeah, that is what I shall do for third party content
wintry yoke
case 1 + above
velvet obsidian
Indeed, 1. is the only content I will properly host. The wiki would contain links to third party content.
wintry yoke
that's the safest you'll get it I suppose 😄
velvet obsidian
Indeed
dark tulip
Regarding GitHub; the EULA for it allows you to create forks of existing repositories (unedited!), and licenses still apply.
However if the original script/mission is not on GitHub then you simply need to follow the license and ask permission.
wintry yoke
Can't merge it with the other content though, can you? It'd be easier to just link to the original repo then
dark tulip
it has to be a fork, so exact copy without modifications (unless license states otherwise)
Open Source != Free To Use 😉
velvet obsidian
Usually, people pick Apache or GNU licenses on GitHub. Do either licenses make a difference for forking or does it still need to be without modifications?
dark tulip
Apache License:
[...] this License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual,
worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
copyright license to reproduce, prepare Derivative Works of,
publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute the
Work and such Derivative Works in Source or Object form.
wintry yoke
I think it's something like Steam does? Legally, Steam's EULA overrides the license provided in the content, but Steam won't take action until it's asked to do so?
dark tulip
Valve is actually requiring you, the uploader, to have ALL rights yourself and give ALL rights to Valve, without limitations
velvet obsidian
Okay, so Apache-licensed repositories sound like something I could probably snag, edit, and host on my repository. GNU is the same thing but you can't make it closed-source or charge money, if I remember it correctly.
dark tulip
so technically, even when an open source license is attached, you're still not allowed to upload it to the workshop, unless you added the license yourself 😉
well, the licenses contain a bit more than just one sentence, so it would be a good idea to read the whole thing
inland sphinx
its also important to keep the same per-file licenses.
like you can't slap a Apache license on your whole git repo, and then have GPL files in there.
And afaik there were also problems when trying to use GPLv2 content with GPLv3 stuff..
dunno. too complicated
velvet obsidian
Alright. I think the safest option would be what Dedmen recommended:
A. Host original content,
B. Host edited third party content when explicitely asking the creators for permission to do so
C. If B is not possible, provide link + guide to edit third party content
wintry yoke
seems like it. Just don't mistake asking for permission with having permission like so many do on the Workshop...
dark tulip
D. Create mod which overrides original content 😉
velvet obsidian
E. Become a hermit, never even look at the forums or workshop, and create all of my own mods and scripts for every single thing in Arma 3
wintry yoke
if you've got the time for it...
velvet obsidian
I certaintly don't, lol.
wintry yoke
Then I'd go with C. 😉
velvet obsidian
Sounds good. Hopefully, this repo. would be of use to many people and even a learning resource to understanding SQF.
dark tulip
I'll be happy to drop some scripts free of charge 😉
fiery egret
@velvet obsidian or instead of a guide you can provide a patch to apply on the original source (or a patch plus script that applies that patch automatically)
velvet obsidian
I am not entirely sure how to create a patch
Im more used to editing and creating code. I never had a patch that didnt overwrite a script
dark tulip
integrating modded content cannot be fixed with a patch, especially not within missions
velvet obsidian
maybe I could make some sort of patcher script? Something like,
snippet_A = a bunch of code
open third_party.sqf
at line 5-12:
remove code
add snippet_A
close and save third_party.sqf
so instead of making a guide, it'd be a patcher script the user runs on their machine that will make edits to the SQF
fiery egret
so technically, even when an open source license is attached, you're still not allowed to upload it to the workshop, unless you added the license yourself wink
@dark tulip I would suggest not going too pedantic on open source licences on Workshop unless you want to throw the biggest arma 3 mods out of Workshop (most of them are breaching the license in one way or another, and yes, I can point out which ones breach what part, and no, I won't do it publicly because, well... I'm on the "common sense" side)
inland sphinx
patch diffs usually contain parts of the original code tho
fiery egret
https://opensource.com/article/18/8/diffs-patches
@velvet obsidian
@inland sphinx really? You too? C'mon...
Also: if you really want to, you can remove the context lines in a diff
velvet obsidian
maybe one could avoid having any part of the original code by having individual patcher scripts that simply add, remove, and replace SQF code line by line
inland sphinx
really? You too? C'mon...
no not me too, legally speaking thats how it is. As I wrote above, most script authors are fine with it and even want it to be shared. But legally no permission == no use.
fiery egret
But at what point can we say that we're not quoting sth that's copyright protected?
Because if we start playing the pedantic game, then even guides are forbidden because you HAVE to state what to change and where somewhere. Again: common sense
dark tulip
sends DMCA to Discord against 'Stack (Overflo)' for using the word "copyright", because I wrote it first
velvet obsidian
not really, one is not distributing or editing any code.
and referencing code isn't illegal either, I could say "put this at line 13 where it says blah"
inland sphinx
then even guides are forbidden because you HAVE to state what to change and where somewhere.
No, I dont see that.
"Replace line 15 by "abc = 123""
a script having 15 or more lines is obviously not subject to copyright
fiery egret
But by saying "blah" you just activated my trap card and I'm now gonna sue you! MUHAHAHA
inland sphinx
As I said above, I'm sure most scripters are fine with it. But he asked how to be one the safe side, and thats what I'm answering.
I won't say "Sure you can steal that guys car, I'm sure he's fine with it"
instead i say "No don't steal that guys car, I'm sure he's fine with it but he might not be"
Sure there are people here who just are on the opposite standpoint and say "people probably don't care anyway, just do it"
but thats just wrong.
Someone here asks "I don't want to do anything illegal please give me advice"
And then there are these people here who are like "Yeah sure, just throw a stone into that window, it'll be fine theres noone living in that house anyway"
thats just bullsh.
No its not fine, even if noone happens to care at that moment that doesn't make it a good/safe thing to do. Stop giving bullsh. advice to people.
velvet obsidian
The advice for using a patch was good though. I could likely find a patcher software that lets me patch code without directly referencing the original code
fiery egret
@inland sphinx I'm definitely not giving the advice you claim I'm giving
inland sphinx
Yeah was an example of someone else
But still to the
really? You too? C'mon...
Yes. The user asked how to be safe, so I'm gonna tell him how to be safe.
You just reminded me of that other guy with that
fiery egret
Alright :)
velvet obsidian
https://neil.fraser.name/software/diff_match_patch/demos/patch.html
Here is the example of what I will attempt to make. Above is a link to demonstrate the type of patching I hope to do. Notice how when the patch is applied for the Trekkie text, it does not need an edited version of the Trekkie text.
https://github.com/google/diff-match-patch
This repository contains a patcher that can do that.
inland sphinx
What i meant is like here
@@ -16,21 +16,29 @@
see
-yonder
+the
cloud
+over there
that
contains "yonder cloud" from original.
Or if I just replace a complete line it generates the patch
@@ -1,7 +1,6 @@
-abcdefg
+ztfutf
which contains the whole original line. That is btw normal diff/patch tool thats included with linux afaik
fiery egret
Yes, and claiming that this is forbidden is the same as claiming that a guide is forbidden as well because you HAVE to mention what to replace somehow and by mentioning that you would be breaching copyright (which is ridiculous)
inland sphinx
don't need to mention the code to be replaced, if you just say "replace line 12" you don't mention any of the potentially copyrighted contents
dark tulip
tbf... when every single word is protected under copyright, than we wouldn't have any books anymore, because "Once upon a time..." = Copyright Strike!
fiery egret
Common! But you usually don't replace the whole line but just a part of that line!
@dark tulip exactly
inland sphinx
yes ofcourse there is a limit.
A line saying _player = won't be copyrightable.
but in SQF the entire script may be in a single line of code.
The answer is, it depends. And if you want to be on the safe side, you have to be careful.
velvet obsidian
then you can say "At line 12, after variable unit1 = replace with the following"
inland sphinx
if your patch touches every line, and contains the whole original script in the patch file.. then you have a problem
fiery egret
@inland sphinx where is the limit? 😏
Is one word okay? Two? Five?
inland sphinx
you know thats nonsense
fiery egret
That was my point aaaaaall along 😁
dark tulip
private _radioType = "";
if (_radio_object isKindOf "Bag_Base") then {
_radioType = typeOf _radio_object;
} else {
replace with:
private _radioType = "";
if (_radio_object isKindOf "Bag_Base" || _radio_object isKindOf "Other_Object") then {
_radioType = typeOf _radio_object;
} else {
Now... does this violate any copyright?
and yes, source is from TFAR 😉
inland sphinx
like the difference between stealing a leaf that was stuck under a cars windshield wiper, and stealing the cars steering wheel.
Where is the limit?
Now... does this violate any copyright?
No, as the code is licensed APL-SA
so as long as it stays APL-SA, thats fine
velvet obsidian
i think i'll just start out with a guide for more simple edits
and complex edits could have their own python scripts that patch the SQF file line by line.
dark tulip
I will just donate scripts I wrote myself 😉
velvet obsidian
python would let me manipulate the code like a list and let me delete a range of characters.
I am not understanding, Grezvany
dark tulip
if you plan to have a collection of useful scripts / changes / etc. then I'll be happy to share stuff I have without the need to worry about copyright and "common sense"
fiery egret
@inland sphinx that's why people don't go "don't take that leaf! That's stealing!"
velvet obsidian
That would be a great favor from you. Once I set up a nice repository, would you mind if I DM you a link to contribute to it?
old jay
Just going to leave this here:
- Posting addon/mod other content without permission
For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community, people work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. There are a few simple rules in place to provide the respect to these creative people/groups that they deserve:
The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.
On these forums you must follow this rule, if a person/team post a thread to share an addon/mod using content from someone else without permission and we receive a complaint then the mod thread will be closed until the issue is resolved and the forum member(s) risks being permanently banned from these forums for taking someone's work without permission.
This isn't just limited to re-using content in addons/mods/missions however, it's not acceptable to edit someone's work without permission and then to post screenshots of it on the forums (even if the edited addon/mod is purely for personal use), it's also not acceptable to edit someone's work, or use someone's work in any way that you don't have permission for and then to create videos which you post on these forums, doing any of the above without the permission of the original creators risks a permanent ban, for individuals, for whole mod teams or squads.
velvet obsidian
seems like as long as I don't reference, or show the original code in any way then I will be fine
dull spear
that madness is what you get when people lack the history of copyright and how it represents the interest of the big companies.
you get even the counter culture, trying to put a balance back into this world, twisted into absurdity
velvet obsidian
thats why i'm gonna put my scripts into public domain
dull spear
according to some people that wouldnt help .. obviously thats completely contrary to Valve/Steam's intentions (and BI's) and the purpose of those licenses
however some people want to misread legal texts literal or without context - which is not how law works nor socities
if a license allows 3rd party use (under whatever set conditions), no explicit permission is required, or you can see it as everyone has explicit permission (unless explicitly excluded)
willow crane
that madness is what you get when people lack the history of copyright and how it represents the interest of the big companies.
And that is the response people give that want to undermine copyright. For example people that profit (in various ways) from people either rejecting copyright or adding to the confusion around it.
I mean, there is a small group of people in this and other communities that simply would not have the place of "prestige" that they claim to have without using other people's work or innovation without credit. Never having had an original thought in their own heads etc.
inland sphinx
if a license allows 3rd party use (under whatever set conditions), no explicit permission is required
noone ever said the opposite. But you are making it sound like the "no permission == not allowed to use" that we say is wrong, its not.
brave knot
whats that?
patent copper
interface for the workshop crawler, essentially helps you find reuploads of your workshop items faster
inland sphinx
basically nothing changes if you knew how to call REST API's before 😄
patent copper
heh, but im sure the majority here doesnt know how to do that 😛
shell scaffold
I can’t even get a unit to die from a script command, and then there’s this?!
shell scaffold
Well the number of infringements has gone way down now, did Steam do something on its own accord or did BI? Used to be 1900 of my mods and now its 3.
inland sphinx
maybe people just don't like your mod anymore?
or something is wrong with the crawler
patent copper
@shell scaffold when was that 1900 number?
shell scaffold
Previous app, a good while ago.
patent copper
Hm, I did a manual look up of your stuff and couldn't find more than 3 items reuploading
I can check the db directly but I'm fairly sure what the API gives me is correct
patent copper
1900 might have been the total number of files reuploaded
dark tulip
A bit like my mod which returns 30k results 🤣🤣🤣
Just because it contains files which almost every mod uses...
lean plover
@patent copper
awesome work with the crawler GUI!
if you got some time at hand, mind adding a download option for the matching file list?
patent copper
yeah can do that
patent copper
@lean plover in what format do you need it?
old jay
From a moderator standpoint, we'd love to be able to scan a workshop item and determine who the original uploader is.
strange shadow
could be done pretty easy if there was a sort of official db of files that were registered
dark tulip
and even then... who was first 😉
and/or does have someone have permission to (re-)upload content
doesn't have to be official but community driven, but it still requires a lot of (manual) work
old jay
Sort of an OFPEC "register here first" issue
strange shadow
if mods were to help enforce it then it would kinda be official
old jay
As it is an independent thing....
dark tulip
But how far should it go...
On mod level, on addon level, on asset level?
And it will cause a huge workload on mods to maintain it
old jay
thats for mod makers to decide
lean plover
@patent copper
i personally prefer TXT, but others might use JSON and HTML as well
zealous ore
@patent copper you beautiful creature you!
shell scaffold
Sup @inland sphinx, didn't notice what channel I was posting in, my bad. And yet, your (presumed) disagreement with my point doesn't make it either spam or utterance. Considering the negative connotations you've expressed, I assume you also have a based and resonable opinion on topic, which I would be very glad to discuss.
inland sphinx
your post was completely offtopic, provided nothing to a discussion (besides a ? and wtf?) and was very much out of context. So yes, was spam.
old jay
Having read your posts, I too concur that it was spam and contributed nothing to the conversation.
shell scaffold
Offtopic it was indeed, though ascidental, which I acknowledged in my first line in this channel. Though it was not a spam, for spam is untargeted mass advertisement.
It should not have been there and I didn't want to discuss you removing it - which was clearly justified for I went political in support channel literally designated for reports of ip violations only.
old jay
@shell scaffold From our rules:
We deem spam as making a thread or posting a reply that has no real worth, is irrelevant, useless and offers nothing to a discussion. Messages of banned members are also considered as spam. If your post/thread is not able to illicit or sustain an in depth conversation then it's spam. This also applies to other areas of the forums such as leaving visitor messages on people's profiles.
Spam will be fined with post count reduction, PR and/or WL.```That truly is a broad and misleading definition, but now I see what you've meant. Yes, we are good on that. I apologise for missposting so hard once again, truly my bad.
What I wanted to discuss here, in offtopic, was the topic of copyright. Since you, @inland sphinx, called my very personal and yet based opinion "utterance", I assume you found it outright wrong, on which I would like you to elaborate. For the sake of seeking wisdom toghether.
old jay
Is it related to Arma?
shell scaffold
Indirectly, yes. So one could say it's not. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't #offtopic channels here for the things unrelated to Arma?
old jay
No, thats incorrect.
#ip_rights_violations is for Bohemia Content. #other_ip_topics is typically for User content and how to protect/defend ones IP.
shell scaffold
Thank you. Even though I would think it's still on topic of defeding IPs. #offtopic_politics seems fine for what I would like to hear from Dedmen, is it?
inland sphinx
Everything here is in some way related to Arma. Besides #offtopic_arma but even there, if you post completely offtopic unrelated stuff there then that's wrong too.
old jay
You seem determined to push some sort of agenda and I can assure you it wont end well if you continue @shell scaffold
inland sphinx
Yes #offtopic_politics fits your stuff kinda.. but just random nonsense utterances without any context is also not wanted there, a user was just recently removed from there
shell scaffold
The line between discussing own opinion and pushing agenda is fairly thin if not unexistant. Would you rather me not talk about marxist interpretation of copyright law and my own vision of it here at all? If so, I will be absolutely fine with your suggestion, considering how the topic seems to be emotionally charged and potentially provocative, judging by how @inland sphinx keeps calling my beautiful even though misplaced statement an "utterance", like if he wasn't attempting to be dialectically consistent or even polite.
After all I like Arma more than I like to argue. So, all things considered, you find it wise for me to refrain from continuing even in #offtopic_politics, right?
old jay
This is exactly what we are talking about. This has no place here.
If you continue, you will be removed.
Last warning
shell scaffold
Okay. Happy New Year!
Though I'd appreciate your answer much more without last two statements.
old jay
You brought it upon yourself.
lyric crow
hi I have question. If I want to make map of real life place but there a community that already have this map. am I still allowed to make my own even though its the same location?
lean plover
if you don't use their data, it's fine. there is no (c) on real world locations
lyric crow
no I plan to use my own stuff and gen my own highmap I just wanted to make sure its permitted . thank you for clarification 🙂
abstract crest
I am now claiming a trademark on the layout of my room! No one else can lay out their room how I have mine! 😉
"there is no (c) on real world locations" More seriously, if there was then Bohemia would have no maps... Even more seriously, do not go to Lemnos and take pictures... actually, just do not go to Lemnos - it sucks!
fiery egret
So umm... what are the exact GPS coordinates of the area that you wish to trademark? I wouldn't want to infringe on your... trademarked room area without knowing it was trademarked, you know? 🤔
abstract crest
Lol. Civilian GPS is not good enough to give you that I'm afraid. So just avoid Hamilton Heights in NYC 🙃
lyric crow
what I want to do is use cranberry islands but owner told me he will dmca me because I ask for his permission and he say no so I told him I will then just make my own
fiery egret
If you don't use his assets or data you should be fine
lyric crow
no no his stuff is 🤢 I just want to use the terrain to save some time making one myself but I guess I will have to but will not be a problem aha
thank you for your help!
vast stump
if you dowload your own dataset and can prove you dont use any parts of his work then you are fine.
lyric crow
sorry I have another question I am trying to make scenario mission with my map and theme is to have zombie outbreak. I want to have military units but im pretty sure i have seen this in arma already? https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/vehicle/fv-107-scimitar-mk2
sorry for asking i just want to be sure it is okay to buy before so i donnt get into trouble
primal stirrup
Be careful with using bought assets, even if you're following the licence of the guy you bought it from. If the seller obtained the model illegally, it's on you to make sure the original licence isn't being broken
lyric crow
how can I check to be sure/
inland sphinx
There isn't really a simple way to check
Get wip pictures from the author, if he can show you the whole process of making it, from the first cube to the final model, then he mooooooost likely made it himself, or stole the wip pictures from someone else too.
fiery condor
Honestly I look how it's presented and price of the object, and the overall submission history of the user. Too me that guy is already showing some red flags with lack of description, lack of technical screenshots(no wireframe pics), and lack of diversity in their portfolio.
Here is a better example of something I would trust a bit more. Price is actually up there with labor, showing technical pics, and describing technical details.
elfin coral
thats cheap, but it is only an editorial licence so non-commercial, non promo, non-advertorial and non-merch.
and from the description of the mesh density entirely not suitable for a game-engine environment. i.e. rendering/arch-vis only.
fiery condor
Oh yea, not saying it's what you want for a mod. Just using it as a example of how presentation.
Massive difference between that and some guy having half dozen "low poly" military vehicles that look like they came from that military RTS game.
elfin coral
yeah, it's pretty easy to spot things that may be suspect when your used to looking at high and low poly things all day,. but for the un-initiated it's a complete stab in the dark.
old jay
Nice to see some proper advice for a change from everyone, thanks!
elfin coral
and like you said, always check out an authors other work - I've seen accounts on various sites with one or two outstanding pieces (read: too good), and the rest of the things they are selling are literally lower than low poly garbage. So best to do the homework on the author for anything you buy.
fiery condor
Yep.
Also your right, I can definitely point out "This guy just selling his senior portfolio" XD
forest mural
Would a config patch be considered modifying the original content?
dense field
Config patches are generally allowed unless explicitly restricted in the licence from my understanding eg RHS has a uniform that explicitly restricted from being retextured as a new varient or changing the base one.
If your publishing it on steam/forums make sure you don't break the original mod by doing it though or people will be less lenient 😉
inland sphinx
Config patches aren't modifying original content no, but they might be derivative
lyric crow
hi I want to add license to my pbo but my English not good and very basic. what license do I include if I want people to be able to use but not share or change anything within my mod?
vivid musk
Looks like APL-ND assuming you made the content. - https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses
I'd wait for someone else to answer for 100% certainty though
inland sphinx
APL-ND allows share tho
paper roost
considering this has been here a long time, has anyone reported this to EA? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1820111165&searchtext=mass+effect
abstract crest
Did they rip Bioware stuff?
strange shadow
i don't even
old jay
It never hurts to have more than one report.
paper roost
yes it's bioware
inland sphinx
Personally don't even know how to report to EA, couldn't find a mail
red sand
a mail to copyright@ea.com will probably end up in the right hands
elfin coral
they also ripped Starship Troopers IP
Re: the EA stuff above, I ran through their helpdesk and submitted a report relating to Mass Effect, threw in their Star Wars stuff too for good measure.
With that said, the more reports they get the better, especially if you want Arma's workshop to be clean of ripped/reverse engineered content.
fyi for reporting items which use EA content without permission you need to follow the steps on this page - https://help.ea.com/en-gb/help/faq/how-to-report-cheat-hack-scam-websites-to-ea/
You do not need an account to do this, they will email you with a case number and access token when you submit the form.
zenith moss
We should try and get the Star Wars ripped mod banned from patreon.... they get like almost a grand a month to rip and shittily port content
dark tulip
just report to EA, they can not only send DMCA's but also have lawyers to take more aggressive actions when needed
all we can do is report it to Patreon, who probably won't do a thing because they also make money of it
vast stump
EA would likely have to intervene on the patrean stuff but money making could bring in lawyers and court stuff. Not everyone in the ripper teams are Russian and thus easy prey for lawsuits.
chrome nebula
somewhat offtopic but they just made it so select other mods will not work with their mod
dense field
I mean that's not necessary wrong, probably just compensating for their bad coding rather that fixing the compatibility error, what mod was it?
inland sphinx
Even antistasi has that block
chrome nebula
the other Star Wars mods they don’t like
this is all second hand info though, I haven’t tested this myself
dark tulip
to be fair; if I would make a mod/mission for vanilla medical system, and I see that ACE medical is enabled I would also add a message like that (without breaking the game)
dense field
Pretty silly IMO, like sure a warning that it might not work as intended, but blocking is just pretentious, Arma is a sandbox people shouldn't dictate how others play it.
But this is getting super off topic.
inland sphinx
Crappy illegal Star wars mods blocking other crappy illegal Star wars Mod..
I can imagine worse things.. like.. imagine people making crappy illegal Star wars mods.. man... Oh wait..
dense field
I was referring more to Antistasi and Grez's comment.
Idiot thieves can do whatever than want to each other though 🤣
wintry yoke
Well... easy to remove that block, no?
shell scaffold
Not sure if this is IP but for arma what is the extents of usage? i know that armies cant use it. does this extend to all forms of usage whether it be Research army related things etc?
lean plover
"This CUP mods are not compatible with life servers"
😉
"To get life server compatibility, donate #350"
fervent bluff
Doesn't the us atmy use rhs or smth
Since its better than the sodtware bi provides
lean plover
nope
elfin coral
BI is not BIS.
fervent bluff
Got confused then
elfin coral
two completely separate companies
lean plover
there was an incident where a private company used arma 3 and mods for a research showcase including the US army
elfin coral
yeah im aware 😉
lean plover
was answering to Oxi. i know you know 😉
elfin coral
ok 😉
fervent bluff
Ah
But the problem with the opposition team is it just them stealing models or smth else?
hushed gyro
I never understood the big pushback within the arma community against porting content, almost every other game that has a modding community has very little interest in opposing ported mods. They definitely create new and unique experiences that wouldn’t be possible in the game the content came from. I understand the point of integrity and ownership of IP, so mods like the Star Wars one that generate revenue from that content shouldn’t be allowed, but if the mod creator gets no benefit other than personal enjoyment I see no issue to be pursued. Plus a lot of people get into programming and modeling through modding. You can’t expect them all to be near professional level and expect them to do everything by the book. If that were the case a lot of people wouldn’t be where they are now. Plus a lot of big companies wouldn’t even bother spending the time investigating or pursuing action against someone who isn’t making any money off of their content. Also a lot of it seems to be more trouble than it’s worth, it takes time hunting down violators of your license and just seems like more hassle than it’s truly worth.
wintry yoke
I think you've just summed up the reason why some legit modders quit the community...
elfin coral
The problem is that they are not making any content, they are directly ripping it from existing games. That is not modding, that is theft of licenced content.
fervent bluff
Tbh i thought it was due to them stealing stuff and not due to using the sw ip they were banned
So you can use star wars as a theme for your mod and get away with it as long as its not stolen?
lean plover
they did both, stealing from other modders, other games and also violated IP
vast stump
that is between you and Disney. And Disney has made blanket DO NOT USE SW IP statement
using someone elses IP is always troublesome
lean plover
So you can use star wars as a theme for your mod and get away with it as long as its not stolen?
Disney is very strict on IP protection
fervent bluff
Makes sense tbh
vast stump
as the owner of the IP needs to protect it to ensure legal right to the IP
so some IP owners look the other way
others are not as kind
wintry yoke
Didn't the OP Trebuchet devs reach out to Bungie for permission?
vast stump
Halo IP is quite free to use
vast stump
that is quite rare
vast stump
in fan made stuff
shell scaffold
or thats against TOs
lean plover
so can a3 be used in research related things?
that's up to BI do decide
hushed gyro
I’d argue there is quite a lot to be learned if you port content. You might not learn how to make models but you can learn a substantial amount about arma if you take the time to do it right. Also doesn’t fair use allow for the use of copyrighted material so long as it meets criteria?
shell scaffold
Theres no predefined clause that explains this?
fervent bluff
@hushed gyro but no stealing
elfin coral
I was gonna write a long piece of text but this issue has been gone over a thousand times in this channel and #ip_rights_violations before it became BI issue only.
with a smart enough search anyone can find the answers already given to a lot of these questions.
lean plover
Also doesn’t fair use allow for the use of copyrighted material so long as it meets criteria?
nope, since nobody really knows what "fair use" actually is...
fervent bluff
And you need to ask the author of content for permission
elfin coral
BI provide samples that are literally all you need to create mods and content for Arma, there is no need to pillage other people's IP.
wintry yoke
A bad way of learning things is pillaging BI and other modders IP, then handing out custom work of said stolen content for Patreon donators
lean plover
fair use: using a mod / copyright protected material in a video for demonstration, commentary, news with source
content theft: rip stuff apart and reuse it, then label it as "my stuff"
shell scaffold
@inland sphinx @dense field what about antistasi?
lean plover
A bad way of learning things is pillaging BI and other modders IP, then handing out custom work of said stolen content for Patreon donators
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/068/362/702.jpg
fervent bluff
Was it gmod that lacked any ip policy
elfin coral
In that same vein, if you do not have the skills or knowledge to create 3D models, textures, sounds, animations, then there are thousands of free guides on the internet and free software that will allow you to do so.
All that will take is your own time in educating yourself and learning how to use those tools.
Rome was not built in a day and neither was any Arma mod, you have time, we're not going anywhere.
lean plover
Was it gmod that lacked any ip policy
yes
Rome was not built in a day and neither was any Arma mod, you have time, we're not going anywhere.
💯
fervent bluff
And if you do it on ur own you can also use it in a4
shell scaffold
holy hell @lean plover
your beard really did grow
since last time I talked to you directly
lean plover
lol... i just didn't shave for 3 days... you should see my full beard 😉
shell scaffold
that beards real?
wintry yoke
Need that much beard around frostbite level temperatures
shell scaffold
i'm going to wait until your avatar is just a very big beard
lean plover
that beards real?
nope, fake. it's way longer actually
wintry yoke
Damn Instagrammers with their Photoshop
shell scaffold
it's all filters son!
lean plover
ok, let's keep it on topic, or i have to strangle you with my beard 😉
wintry yoke
I'll take the latter thank you
fervent bluff
Tbh if would be cool if we could do sw mods w/o ip violations but disniey payed a lot of money for it so its understandable
wintry yoke
Or could just play SW games
fervent bluff
The last sw game i played was bf2 and lego star wars idk which
But it would be cool to have that arma feel in a sw game
wintry yoke
What defines 'that Arma feel' for you?
lean plover
What defines 'that Arma feel' for you?
creating a mission for days just to launch it at game day to realize 10min after start you f**ked up big time 😄
wintry yoke
Isn't that a description for all EA SW games?
shell scaffold
Crashes, bugs, turning tanks into Apollo 11, 5 FPS, and error codes + DLC popups covering my screen
elfin coral
maybe not talking #general_chat_arma in #other_ip_topics 🙂
lean plover
Uro, i already threatened to use my beard force. no reaction 😄
wintry yoke
Man's got a point. @fervent bluff instead of illegal ports of SW into A3, investigate legal ways of porting your 'Arma feel' into a SW game?
But your offer to be strangled with that magnificent beard is too tempting @lean plover
fervent bluff
Ports?
lean plover
https://giphy.com/gifs/e4Jyxh9zQjgnC
@wintry yoke
fervent bluff
I was talking about making stuff from scrach
wintry yoke
Obviously, I just meant whatever defines that Arma feel for you
fervent bluff
Well not from scrach, modifiying the a3 char example since i'm bad at creating torsos
wintry yoke
Awh :( @lean plover
paper roost
I think using tips@disneyantipiracy.com might help to regarding the star wars thing
lean plover
not the perfect move since disney tends to F up not just the violator, but also everything connected to it, like the platform that was used for the violation
paper roost
ouch, there goes patreon
lean plover
no, but BI could get in major troubles as well....
paper roost
lean plover
see? not as easy as it seems
inland sphinx
@hushed gyro
I understand the point of integrity and ownership of IP
Do you?
if the mod creator gets no benefit other than personal enjoyment I see no issue to pursue
Sounds like you don't understand it at all.
also doesn't fair use...
Fair use doesn't apply here.
And there are PLENTY of free and legal 3D models available to learn from, without having to steal or violate someone else's IP.
@shell scaffold
so can a3 be used in research related things?
Probably not. Ask BI legal Dept.
lyric crow
do anybody kno Riouken? owner of this?http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=22992
id like to report to the owner somebody reupload to workshop
dark tulip
try to send a PM on the forums. Although last update of the mod was in 2013, and last time Riouken was online on the forums was in 2015.
lyric crow
oh ok I guess
dark tulip
I had the same with a mod I wanted to take over... last time person was online on forums was 2013... but still replied 2 weeks later (in 2019) after I sent him a message.
so it can't hurt to try
abstract crest
I had exactly the same thing this year Grezvany13 so always worth reaching out
lyric crow
yes I will try because this monetized life community using this and I do not thenk it is fair for everyone else
abstract crest
Uh.............
lyric crow
sorri I am not good with english tounge
old jay
No problem
inland sphinx
@lyric crow please PM me details about which monetized life community is using it. They might be violating me rules too
lyric crow
ok no problem
velvet obsidian
Is it possible to have one's Arma 3 original content (such as mission, script, or mod) be in public domain?
zealous ore
not really
as in public domain refers to something completely different
especially since there is no single definition of what public domain is
depends on a lot of things, including jurisdiction, country etc
but sure, an author can choose CC0 type license if he wants to
note here - it is 100% up to the author to do that. if there is no license present, the most strict one applies - that means non commercial, non derivative type
there is no such original content that goes directly under CC0 type license as the default one
velvet obsidian
Interesting, I have never known this.
GitHub has the Unlicense license that I wish to use for my content. According to a couple anecdotes, unlicense seems to be better suited for software than CC0.
cursive sedge
GNU says it's the other way around, https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#Unlicense
I would suggest using a more common permissive license such as MIT though
velvet obsidian
What would be the advantage of MIT over Unlicense or CC0?
My goal is to create scripts that anyone could use, edit, screw around with for absolutely any reason. That way, I could avoid dealing with the BS of giving permissions, etc.
cursive sedge
it's very common for open source software development without being copyleft like GPL
so you can use MIT code in GPL codebase but not GPL code in MIT codebase without changing to GPL
velvet obsidian
Ok, that sounds reasonable for my other non-Arma projects. But in this case, I just have a bunch of little scripts that I want to dump into the internet for anyone to play with. Licenses like GPL and MIT will add liabilities. I would have to burden myself with making sure that someone's modified version of my GPL code would not end up in MIT codebases, as you say.
While I can see the benefits of MIT and GPL licenses, I really want the simplest license that lets anyone do anything to what I produce. Licenses like CC0, Unlicense, and http://www.wtfpl.net/ which I just found appeal to me for this reason.
cursive sedge
you don't have to worry about such things if you license your code under MIT
as it can be re-licensed by whomever uses it
fiery egret
MIT requires you to always include the copyright notice in all copies of the software whereas CC0 doesn't
So CC0 should be "better" in this case
velvet obsidian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses
This link helps understand the licenses. Unlicense seems to have the most amount of green.
cursive sedge
@fiery egret that’s not true, only when you want to keep it with same license and author
If you re-license it you can do whatever you want
You’re thinking of BSD
Or Apache
fiery egret
Uhh... that's not what the license says.
It says:
Permission is hereby granted (...) to deal in the Software without restriction (...) subject to the following conditions:
The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
So you can relicense it as long as you keep the notice that it was MIT at one time
And you can find such source code in the wild (containing the MIT "headers" and another license on top of it)
cursive sedge
Source code yes, software no
fiery egret
Not sure what you mean by that. That code is not software?
cursive sedge
Which can be a fine line depending on language, toolchain etc
fiery egret
https://www.tawesoft.co.uk/kb/article/mit-license-faq -> Can I redistribute MIT-licensed code under another license?
cursive sedge
Like sqf inside a pbo would retain it but it’s not accessible to most users
But if someone tried to edit the mission it would still be there
Licensing is tricky 😄
So perhaps an even more permissive license is easier after all, like you said 🙂
old jay
That code is not software? Code is not software as letters of the alphabet are (typically) not protected works like "War and Peace" or "A Clash of Kings"
cursive sedge
It’s something which sadly is ambiguous in many licenses as it’s not defined. And projects choose different meanings of it as well 🙃
cursive sedge
And for any serious work related stuff, always talk to a lawyer 🙂
willow crane
Like sqf inside a pbo would retain it but it’s not accessible to most users
Theres a fun bit of law. its a tool used in fair use cases. If you have to unpack/reverse engineer or take steps to extract "code" to access it. It is treated as 'software'.
If you publish code in text format, then it becomes far more difficult to protect or claim legally. Not impossible but the law around it gets far more complicated.
So if you have something inside a PBO then you are legally on firmer ground.
dark tulip
But anything written, be it text, code or binary numbers, falls under copyright. So no loophole there, since text is text (even when not software).
fiery egret
I wanted to write more here but I'm on my phone at work so the gist of it is that I don't believe that literally no lawyer has noticed that one of the most popular licenses in the world that is used with source code only (in the cases we're talking about here) contains references to "software" if that "software" wasn't equivalent to "source code".
Otherwise, that would make hundreds of thousands of projects be without a valid license (and somehow no one in the open source community noticed that) 🤔
inland sphinx
u sure it doesn't define what it means by "software" at the start of the license?
fiery egret
Because if software != source code then that license could say
"Permission is hereby granted (...) to deal in the CAR without restriction (...)" and it would make as much sense
u sure it doesn't define what it means by "software" at the start of the license?
Yes
shell scaffold
“Computer software” is defined by 48 CFR 2.101 to means (i) Computer programs that comprise a series of instructions, rules, routines, or statements, regardless of the media in which recorded, that allow or cause a computer to perform a specific operation or series of operations; and (ii) Recorded information comprising source code listings, design details, algorithms, processes, flow charts, formulas, and related material that would enable the computer program to be produced, created, or compiled.
Source code is included in the legal definition of "software"
fiery egret
Out of curiosity: what is this excerpt from?
shell scaffold
(To go straight to where it occurs in it do Ctrl+F and put in Computer software and press enter 3 times)
dark tulip
Computer = calculator
Software = instructions
So computer software are instructions on a calculator... 1+1= COPYRIGHT!
shell scaffold
brave knot
someone is DMCAing rhs and CUP
are there no ripercussions if you do that without proofs?
wintry glade
It's a perjury. Actually getting someone charged with it is another story though.
DMCA is not "just a prank bro, taksies backsies, we gucci riiiiight?", it's an actual legal document.
willow crane
But anything written, be it text, code or binary numbers, falls under copyright. So no loophole there, since text is text (even when not software).
Actually the law differs when it comes to software, artworks, educational information etc
That's where the Fair Use clauses come into play. But my point is that if you have to extract the code to get it then it fails one of the key tests about copyright re publicly available information vs copyrighted/protected information and IP.
dark tulip
Fair use never comes to play when you steal something...
fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner.
so no, you can't steal someone code under fair use...
just because your car CAN drive 200km/h, doesn't mean it's allowed to do so (unless you are in Germany, there it is allowed...)
wintry glade
Fair use is also an affirmative defence
Meaning you admit you did take someone's work and say "BUT here's why it's legal"
old jay
Fair Use, "only the United States and Israel fully recognize the concept of fair use."
dark tulip
I also understand the concept of Fair Use... problem is a lot of people think it means "if I call it Fair Use, I don't have to worry about Copyright" aka "I call it FU"
old jay
Exactly
fiery egret
Fair Use, "only the United States and Israel fully recognize the concept of fair use."
You mean United States' concept of fair use, surely
Poland has its own fair use concept (which is just a few paragraphs below the text that you quoted), for example
And as such, I (a polish person) could state that only Poland fully recognizes the concept of fair use (because other countries' fair use concept differ from it) :P
cursive sedge
@fiery egret I think you’re right in the case of MIT, they should be considered the same. Some other licenses make a difference though
old jay
You mean United States' concept of fair use, surely yes
dark tulip
you mean "Fair Abuse"?
fiery egret
I may be wrong but I believe that people who mention "fair use" here actually mean "fair use or equivalent".
zealous ore
each time i see fair use when it comes to someone's elses made content
a giggle like an asian schoolgirl
willow crane
so no, you can't steal someone code under fair use...
i never said you could steal and get away with it
Fair-use is a possible defence. Not an excuse under law.
Fair Use, "only the United States and Israel fully recognize the concept of fair use."
The US is the only one to call it fair use but there is similar provision under UK and EU laws as well
No one ever applies fair use properly anyway . had a great one with the Wrecking Crew UK Cold War license from "their" mod. Trying to use the UK Equiv to justify ripping addons for "private" use claiming it was for "educational purposes"
UK and EU clause covering "Fair Dealing" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/29 if anyone is interested.
----------
This work as a whole, or parts within, shall not be distributed publicly. No exceptions. The content of this pack is a collection of various subparts of other packs, purely for the purpose of understanding the workings of modding Arma, not for release, of any kind. Including our own privately created assets, until those are separated in preparation for our own content, and their own licence.
Do not reverse engineer this content, unless reverse engineering for the purposes of private study, for systems interoperability or non-commercial research into how to conduct modding oneself. These are granted exceptions to the rule, as is an right under Section 29 of the Copyright Designs and Patent Act 1988 and appropriate EU law governing copyright. Contents generated from are still beholden to their own original licences, and this notice.
Attribution should be retained where possible, particularly in the generated technical document(s). There is one example case where this isn't possible, due to the learning of making a meta-macro to define pbo wide credit. This by in no way is an attempt to claim credit to that content, but is a mere-side effect from learning and understanding preprocessor commands. This is understood not to be of concern, given the content won't be made public, and thus credit cannot be mistakenly taken.
The documents generated via the research conducted will be made public in time, and will be posted in appropriate places, such as our own website or the BI forums, to enable those interested in modding a stepping stone into content creation.
This notice was last updated on the 12/06/2019.```and the BS license claiming its all right to rip content.
bronze haven
Looks like this user RobinDX is repackaging a lot of other peoples stuff as their own. One notable inclusion is FHQ weaponry inside the BTG_Public.
abstract crest
He also has screenshots of Chernarus Plus on ARMA 3 in his Steam screenshots archive...
lean plover
it is not related to any specific IP case and arma, but still funny
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a3R85NQ_460s.jpg
fiery egret
It's very related to discussion in this channel, though 😂
lean plover
to this channel indeed 😄
shell scaffold
Hey, is it okay to deobfuscate Arma 3 files? Asking for a friend (literally)
shell scaffold
Just wanted to make sure
strange shadow
🙂
fiery egret
I'm assuming your friend isn't trying to prove that some files have been stolen from him and obfuscated to hide that fact, is he? 🙃
Because if not, then you're basically asking if it's okay to pick a locked door that was purposely closed by the owner 😛
strange shadow
exactly
tranquil obsidian
.....a friend..... 👀
strange shadow
unless otherwise explicitly stated, the only thing you have the right to do with ppls stuff is play on it.. how is this so hard to understand?
proud helm
Wanna note here: Obfuscation also is a legit way to literally hide away stolen contents
"legit" in the sense that it is being done to hide the fact
not that content should be stolen in the first place
strange shadow
well that is what stack implied
shell scaffold
@fiery egret I dunno. He just DM’d me to ask if I know how to deobfuscate arma files, I told him that’s illegal but let me double check in the arma discord
@BaroN#0285 https://imgur.com/a/sQbhTSr
fiery egret
Technically everything is possible given enough time spent on it.
However, unless you have a really good reason to deobfuscate them, you won't find anyone willing to help with that here
lyric crow
hi wat is this mean? what will happen after jan 31 2020? https://gyazo.com/c975e78d685019736cc0818404a27c52
lyric crow
im sorry I give wrong gyazo https://gyazo.com/156ded8036a2cc2a68e8e596202ec92c
lean plover
well, it says it right there: permission ends end of this month
dark tulip
all permissions are expired and servers/communities have to re-apply
lyric crow
ah okai sorry my friend tell me that after date it will mean anyone can do it and got worried xD
lean plover
haha... no!
lyric crow
thank you for correct information because I was going to scream at boehemia of how bad of idea it is 😄
lean plover
this means exactly what @dark tulip said. plus, if BI feels like not expanding the permission, nobody will be allowed to monetize anymore
dark tulip
it doesn't mean servers/communities will think the same and continue without permission (like some do now as well).
zealous ore
it is up to BI to control it
fervent bluff
So the star wars thing, porting sw is illegal, but is creating ur own stuff is also illegal or not?
dark tulip
Based on LucasArt/Disney licensing, yes. It's not allowed to use anything related to Star Wars outside of their own franchise.
fervent bluff
Illegal it is then
soft perch
generally speaking using any IP that isn't yours without permission is illegal, some copyright holders allow or ignore it, others encourage it, some like disney kick down your door and murder you over it
but it always depends on if they care enough to enforce it which is why there's still star wars mods out there for games
lyric crow
but if I do not see star wars how do I know what was taken and wat is custom? im just interest beacause it looks so complicated with all stuff need to check just to add mod for server.
old jay
Nothing in/from Star Wars is permitted, so its quite simple @lyric crow
fervent bluff
they copyrighted the word droid
old jay
And the vast majority of words associated with the Star Wars universe
inland sphinx
wow I just thought I found a mod reupload on the workshop, with "SW1.0.pbo" but.. thats not a pbo its a zip archive, of some DCS star wars mod.. in the arma workshop.. as a zip archive with file extension "pbo"... wat?
cursive sedge
There’s an upload with a 40GB video recording of ghost recon wildlands 😛
soft perch
where else would you host a 40gb video?
lean plover
pornhub?
brave knot
the real black market has been in front of our eyes this whole time
its arma workshop uploads
abstract crest
Steam probably has better download bandwidth than pornhub 😉
dark tulip
PH has better moderation of content...
abstract crest
True
lean plover
PH has better moderation of content...
Just had to laugh out loud on this. Now people think I'm crazy... Well, I am... But... You know...
😂
dark tulip
I can understand that Valve doesn't has complex mechanics in place to filter out bogus content for every single game with a Workshop.
But they even fail to filter out crappy content from the Steam Shop...
Of course it would then be the task of the publisher (in our case BI) to manage the content, but it's just too much and most likely without any tools to monitor content properly.