#ip_rights_violations

1 messages Β· Page 64 of 1

manic laurel
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player's behaviour is no content
a scripted cinematic would be

rugged meteor
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i see

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also, in that point H

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that says marketing and branding

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or to sell or promote services

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so, if its non profit?

manic laurel
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…read two words further?

rugged meteor
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sell or promote services still in regards

manic laurel
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WHETHER OR NOT FOR PROFIT
promoting for non-profit is covered

faint nacelle
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Seems like donations are off the table too.

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@rugged meteor frankly. If you really want to help with this you get in contact with Disney for proper clarification.

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Instead of throwing around bits and pieces of texts from various sources.

rugged meteor
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its one source, and its from disney

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is it the end all? no, but its a piece of ammo to suggest BI dont shoot its foot off just yet

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well see what happens

manic laurel
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correct, we will see - and BI's word will be the last word, SW mods being legal or not.

wheat wave
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this workshop ban thing is based, wish we had it 5yrs ago, would've saved us a lot of headaches, but at least its there for when we need it in the future

ivory juniper
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I mean, in the last week, the A3 workshop has had 900 uploads. This is gonna take a while to make an impact

rapid cypress
gray siren
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question. Does the fact EA hold exclusive rights for star wars digital games matter here. It might be the people to speak to are EA. Just saying

echo orchid
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it doesn’t

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some people here are making things disney ip exclusive, when in fact this sort of moderation is something long overdue

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and it’s in relation to the fact that some people miss used other’s IP as they want

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which is bound to change and have instant repercussions

gray siren
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as i said i dont care about star sim stuff. i just want to know if this will effect mods that use IRL products.
I mean my personal point of view is i dont know why BI even cares about these mods. The niether own the IPs or host them. This should be a Valve and the IP holders to sort out.

weary rivet
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these measures were long overdue

vivid scarab
#

EA doesn't hold exclusive rights to the franchise either - that agreement has come to an end, and is a moot point.

Technically speaking, the people to talk to now would probably be Lucasfilm Games, who were established recently to handle all pitches / licensing arrangements.

spiral minnow
# gray siren as i said i dont care about star sim stuff. i just want to know if this will eff...

"I mean my personal point of view is i dont know why BI even cares about these mods"

oh mb they care because of that (General Licence on Arma 3 Tool πŸ˜„):
1. Ownership: All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, themes, objects, methods of operation, any related documentation, and addons incorporated into the Program) are owned by Bohemia Interactive a.s. (the Licensor) or its licensors. The Program is protected by the Czech copyright laws, international copyright treaties and conventions and any other applicable laws. All rights are reserved

gray siren
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so why not crack down on mods that violate IRL IP.

spiral minnow
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give me an example ^^ cause it depends a lot

gray siren
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ni arms and fir wheels for now but a lot of mods use irl weapons, vics and gear and names

chilly silo
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Oh boy, no one seems to be listening anymore. The issue has now been completely muddied by bogus opinion.

Re Trademarks: Military designations are typically exempt from Trademark usage. NI Arms or whomever else uses a Trademark in their Artwork has to face what ever issue the Trademark holder choses to create.

Re Star Wars: I have yet to see BI take action against anyone that is not openly using ripped models and content. IE Opposition etc. The issue of whether Disney Licenses deny all use of Star Wars IP is up for debate. There are lots of clauses that seem to contradict each other depending on the type IP used and how its used. I'm told this has been referred to the BI Legal Team for clarification. So we have to wait...

chilly silo
spiral minnow
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oh ok, good to know

chilly silo
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This is from 2005. Placebo was the community manager for BI Studios for many years.

gray siren
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@chilly silo o to answer you from last night i only have basic criminology and then i did not even get a job that deals with that subject. I just took it because i need another class.

chilly silo
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I've got 25 ish years of dealing with IP Transfer as Project manager for various industries and as a Commercial Simulation Asset Creation business owner. I've spent a lot of time defending my own work and dealing with IP issues in industry.

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Some but not all with the Computer games and Serious games sector.

rugged meteor
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EA didnt renew that deal

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so now anyone can make em, with licensing of course

rugged meteor
carmine folio
rugged meteor
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i don't mean to be a jerk but that was something that definitely confused me with NI

chilly silo
# rugged meteor NI still has manufacturers names tho, like the izhmash series of AKs

Yeah and Each of those manufacturers have different usage polices. its up to the IP holder to take action not us.

But if its clearly not allowed ie specifically stated in a public facing document like the Disney and others have done then why should it be tolerated? I'm not party to BI's policy decisions but I think a certain amount of education about ethical and moral (rights) modding is not a bad thing.

soft egret
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Why suddenly, I'm not aware of anything having changed.
Besides suddenly dozens of new people joining to the discord to complain about star wars mods suppsidely getting deleted all of the sudden.

rugged meteor
chilly silo
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But at the end of the day this is a service provided by BI Studios. Any they also have a moral obligation to ensure no illegal actives on their platforms. So their house. Their rules.

rugged meteor
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yes, its just that those rules seem very flippy floppy

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theirs no point in arguing further of course

soft egret
rugged meteor
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uh no

gray siren
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as disney ever DMCAd star wars mods?

rugged meteor
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SWOP when it first appeared

soft egret
rugged meteor
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rejoice ... the era of repeated violations at SW w/o consequences is over

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you had a post not far from it

faint nacelle
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SW = steam workshop

rugged meteor
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then the irony of jedis name?

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then the linking of the Imperial Studios mod? (after the LCS reupload was fragged, but thats not my concern)

soft egret
rugged meteor
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one moment

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i cant post the image but its a post from Lou at 2:46 PM CST yesterday

paper prawn
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No, Imperial was brought up by a user on this discord...

rugged meteor
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he linked it himself

soft egret
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I checked all http links in channel logs and I can't find it

gray siren
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screen snip

rugged meteor
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cant post it

paper prawn
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No, W Milton posted it and it's still on the Workshop ffs

vivid scarab
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Click the three dots on a users post on the right hand-side and copy message link if you're trying to flag something quickly - it's better than giving someone a vague time / user-name.

paper prawn
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So it wasn't nuked and no one said it will be either

vivid scarab
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Or use the reply feature with the @ disabled - should work a bit better.

rugged meteor
# 
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2297780006 and kripto202, very  frequent SW reuploader and banned from here https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198009169178``` is the quote
soft egret
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which channel?

rugged meteor
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this channel

gray siren
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this channel

soft egret
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Ah wrong timezone

rugged meteor
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at 2:56 PST yesterday

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yea sorry

soft egret
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^ this

rugged meteor
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yes

chilly silo
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Yeah banned "from here"

soft egret
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That was not talking about star wars at all

paper prawn
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As I said, mod is still up anyway so completely irrelevent

rugged meteor
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yea imma just come back later

soft egret
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That was talking about kripto, who has been banned from here and other places for repeated violations.
NOT talking AT ALL about "all star wars mods are gonna be taken down"

paper prawn
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I mean the LCS reupload was almost immediately removed, which if you know the history there you would agree was a good thing

gray siren
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the LCS mod ewe

paper prawn
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The reuploaders claimed it was their work and that the real author had died ffs

random marsh
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Dunno if this is the right place to ask but here goes. In general, I assume I need explicit permission to modify somebody else's textures and reupload them, correct?

soft egret
soft egret
gray siren
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i mean just ask. Some will say no most will be ok with it

soft egret
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So the last two days of going in circles discussions, shitposting, trolling, false accusations, people getting banned and muted.
Happened because,
people ASSUMED that SW stands for Star Wars while it actually meant Steam Workshop (which is btw what is regularly talked about in this channel, contrary to Star Wars),
and because people ASSUMED a moderator linking the steam profile of a repeat offender who happens to currently have a star wars mod (which isn't unlikely considering there are lots of offenders in the Star Wars scene, right after the Life scene) on his profile means that all Star Wars content will be taken down.

Thats kinda ridiculous.

shut ore
chilly silo
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Not exactly what i said but hey ho. But let me restate. BI has a moral obligation to ensure no illegal activity on their platforms. Their house, their rules. End of.

rapid cypress
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ablobderpy why are you people still going on about this

soft egret
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We ban content thieves on here. Why?
Because BI wants to feel boss? No.
Because it hurts the modders and makes them want to turn away from Arma, which is what makes Arma 3 what it is.

shut ore
chilly silo
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Difference is I'm not arguing. just stating my opinion.

shut ore
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better?

chilly silo
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than what?

gray siren
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mortality is subjective

soft egret
chilly silo
shut ore
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yes

gray siren
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i mean wrong discord for this but yes

chilly silo
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Mortality or Morality?

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Life vs Morals?

gray siren
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i mean both are subjective but i meant Morality

vivid scarab
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I like the idea that my mortality can be re-defined.

chilly silo
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lol this is getting waaaay to existential for this channel πŸ˜›

gray siren
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as i said going in to it is very off topic

rugged meteor
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their was a lot of assets with xcam in the name, which in turn were CUP assets of course

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it also repacks things from ArmStalker, but the author worked on Armstalker

hasty gale
rugged meteor
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i mean its not an IP, its just a violation

paper prawn
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ACE generally give permissions for uploads so long as you do not try and make out you are an official ACE version and you maintain their license and credits.

upbeat carbon
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If I would like to use the real name of a firearms company in a non monetarized mod, and I ask that company for their permission to do this, and I get the permission. How do one declare the name use legal?

manic laurel
manic laurel
blazing wyvern
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i like how they keep reuploading KA Weapons Pack

soft egret
upbeat carbon
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Well, then let's hope they give me their permission and not a 50 cal round to the head. Company name's Barrett.

blazing wyvern
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what gun?

upbeat carbon
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M107

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The gun is also to be found in CUP and some other mods. Just want to make sure.

blazing wyvern
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imho if you use the army designation you should be fine

upbeat carbon
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Ah, so simply not use the Name is ok then?

rapid cypress
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afaik just the military designations are fine to use

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The company names themselves are likely trademarked though

wary hollow
wary hollow
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^ Gone, ty

fluid elbow
soft egret
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it mostly ripped content

blazing wyvern
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yeah most of it are from COD or BF games which is a big no no

fluid elbow
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Yeah indeed thats a nogo at all. Just didnt know that, cause it exists very long if i got it right in mind.

Whats about Armaholic? Im sure there its still downloadable..

blazing wyvern
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well thats up to them if they tolerate such items

dull moon
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armaholic usually doesn't give a πŸ’©

rapid wagon
soft egret
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and hitman, and killing floor

strange elm
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one thing i absolutely dislike about mods that are illegal, the owners, find loopholes to get them into the game anyway through third party download sites, not to mention they monetize off of people ive actually had someone try to sell me his private mods. i really wish there was a way to block private mods and there loopholes from getting onto Arma, privatizing mods, weather they are legal or not does nothing to grow the arma community, maybe only that individuals community because "hey look what mods we have, come join us to get them"... just my two cents.

spark bay
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Only thing we can do is the make ppl aware of such things and hope that more ppl start questioning and avoiding mods, servers and communities which practice this kind of shady stuff

strange elm
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yeah which is impossible because everyone and there mother wants Gucci navy seal equipment xD kind of frustrates me when i see something cool on the steam screenshot tab, i ask what mods they used and the only answer i get is "Private" not saying all private mods are bad, but if they are private there is probably a reason that they are.

wraith tinsel
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or they are just paid for by the community that uses them

patent flicker
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Some of my gun mods are circulated in those private packs, getting sold around. I only found out because someone did exactly that, posted a picture with one of my weapons, then when someone asked about it said it was a private mod and offered to sell it to them.

wraith tinsel
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i know a couple units that have private mods cuz their donos paid for the custom shit so private mods arent too bad

manic laurel
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private mods != ripped-and-made-private mods

wary hollow
rapid cypress
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Man you could props fill an entire full time job just with dealing with the workshop and stuff like reuploads

vivid scarab
manic laurel
wary hollow
manic laurel
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I'll not remove this mod, because I am not ok with laws hampering development as a whole.
lul.

rapid cypress
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There is hardly a thing that angers me more, than people not turning on their brains before posting.
HAHAHAHEHE

paper prawn
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Yeah, right 🀦

rapid cypress
strange elm
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loli know this one might be a low blow aswell since many dont fall under this catagory, but if the mod author didnt take the time to get rid of the Arma3 workshop screenshot and add a decent screenshot to promote that mod.... there "might" be something fishy lol

rapid cypress
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a lot of uploads dont have a custom picture ablobderpy

strange elm
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yeah i know it doesnt incriminate, its just annoying, theres probably alot of neat mods out there, that dont see the light of day because they dont have a picture. xD

vivid scarab
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Lou out here playing big brain.

keen trout
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might be relevant to note down the uploader account

strange elm
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^steam account not display name xD i change my display name like 50 times in one month xD

blazing wyvern
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lol people really want KA weapon pack

spark bay
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The claim is, that KA Weapons contains some stuff, that has been copied from somewhere else. I'll not remove this mod, because I am not ok with laws hampering development as a whole.
From the reuploader

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He's not okay with that, so we better leave him alone 🀣

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Guess that guy needs to get one some list since he says he's gonna reupload it every time

faint nacelle
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thing is, reuploading is forbidden so he is violating the rules and if he then repeats it, he too will get his workshop priviledges revoked.

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cant upload common sense to the workshop unfortunately

rugged meteor
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do is anything gonna happen to dark medieval?

dull moon
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to what?

tender hawk
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I do tell people that Steam Workshop collections are okay as a means of 'this server's modpack'

burnt oak
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collections and dummy mods with the other mods as dependencies

spark bay
wary hollow
dull moon
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@spark bay 🀣
This. Is. Awesome!

mortal dust
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πŸ˜‚

fickle ivy
spark bay
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🀣

fickle ivy
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"why do i need common sense to download???!!111"

dull moon
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it's easier than downloading RAM, duh

spare osprey
worn sleet
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It just takes practice, that’s all

strange elm
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Lol your right @spare osprey it takes some getting used to and i wasnt jabbing everyone that doesnt get a decent photo or screen to represent there mod lol... its just frustrating when im trying to surf for mods and thats all i see especially when i search for something and i get 4-5 mods with a similar name, and no photos to refereance.

spare osprey
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No I agree most of them are rips , I put pictures up but they not the best.

vivid scarab
rapid cypress
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πŸ‘€

manic laurel
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@void python ?

carmine folio
soft egret
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@hollow rain I guess

rapid cypress
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yayautism you made it onto the poster dedmen

soft egret
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Nice how the people baiting others into violating the Arma EULA by paying people to play with them, will also threaten them with reporting them to the tax authorities, for the money that they paid them.

manic laurel
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nice flyer, I like it

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let's drop it over their server with UAVs

rapid cypress
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Could have been designed a bit better imo

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the text is sort of all over the place

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but it works so

hollow rain
carmine folio
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I see

spark bay
rapid cypress
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hm that'd be perfect to use in a mission where BiA is the enemy force

rustic copper
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Someone should write a SCP for it 🀣

mental edge
rapid cypress
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Hmm could be

wary hollow
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How do you read a manga? LUL

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That lookes like an cheat code LUL

manic laurel
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they activated Discord's Konami Code!!!1!

scarlet patrol
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jesus they are on a superior level of detachment from reality, reminds me of the very presidential guys but with worse english

faint nacelle
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some people dont like to be told no when "they just want to have fun"

dull moon
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#350

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πŸ˜‰

rugged meteor
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i cant exactly follow what it means

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who is BiA? Aris?

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are they a mod team of some kind?

rapid cypress
rugged meteor
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interesting

scarlet patrol
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that poster is just the tip of the iceberg but lets you get an idea

rugged meteor
tall oxide
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that flyer is fun

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what a poopshow

carmine folio
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yeah

spark bay
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Too bad this guy is still doing it. Hope he has to face consequences at some point.

carmine folio
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Send the Special Forces for his Ass 😐

blazing wyvern
rugged holly
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Lmfao hahahahahahaha KA weapons hahahahahahahaha

vivid scarab
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Second time he's done that now.

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Oh, and that chap Nicoman that Lou pinged yesterday has either deleted or hidden all of his re-uploads and set his Steam to private. So fun.

rugged meteor
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so, say a dude gets banned from the workshop, hows it work? when they go to upload stuff they just get an error?

dull moon
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You can ask Dwarden to ban you and try it out πŸ˜‰

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But seriously, no idea

vivid scarab
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I've heard they send Dedmen around to your house to staple a ban notice to your forehead, but he's been eerily silent when pressed for further comments.

Jokes aside, it's an error message afaik.

rugged meteor
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dang

delicate hamlet
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So, I have a question in regard of IP holding. If I do a gun based in a real life counterpart but the patent is holded by a goverment and there is no data to be found oficially by said holder, one would avoid breaking IP laws if avoiding branding? Logos, names and nicknames? or how would that work?

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As officially stated by said goverment, is ilegal to create counterfeit versions of said gun but nowhere does it declares as being illegal to recreate it digitally

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should I assume that the same ip enforcing as common gun making/creating companies does take place?

dull moon
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recreating this model can be seen the same as taking a picture of it

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military designation, like "M4" or "M16" is not protected and public domain.

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brands on the other hand are a more delicate issue

delicate hamlet
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so an m4 would be ok but a Colt M4 wont, right?

dull moon
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not sure how Colt handles this. they might give out permission. but to be save, avoid brandings

midnight crystal
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always wondered, does this apply to engravings on the model itself too?

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ex. IMI Uzi

dull moon
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yes

dull moon
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@ancient flax
no links without description please
#rules

ancient flax
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Lmao ment to send that in a dm

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Sorry

random marsh
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Is it considered a violation of IP law/copyright to take a function or script (sqf) from a Workshop mod and implement it into your own?

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Without using the original as a dependency.

dull moon
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depends on the license the code is released.
i'd say it's not very nice to do, specially without permission.
ask the author, and if he/she says yes, mention him/her in the file

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// original code by XYZ, modified by [your name]

random marsh
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The one I'm looking at is dependent on ACE (uses ace interactions) and I'd like to implement their feature into my mod.

dull moon
# 

ACE3 is built modularly, thus a team can maintain its own tailored version, excluding a select number of components that they don't like, or which conflict with other addons. Larger components themselves, like the medical system and other core features also include various customization options, allowing mission designers and communities to tweak the overall experience.

Signed,
The ACE Team```
from the steam workshop page
random marsh
dull moon
keen trout
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Different ACE addons have different licenses as well

rugged meteor
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if im reading the non commercial no derivatives thing correctly and it covers scripts, I believe Mass Effect Opposition violates OPTRE's nc-nd v3

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I'm not sure if the script was made by anyone else prior to The Eridaunus Insurrection/Operation Trebuchet, but the pelican transports in the mod use a script where the pilot can activate their main thrusters to have the pelican fly more like a plane (helicopter flightmodel), and deploy airbrakes to immediately kill that speed

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then, years later when MEOP shows up, exactly the same script is present but instead of [ENGAGE THRUSTERS] and [ACTIVATE AIRBRAKES] it's [TOGGLE REPULSORS] for all vast majority of the aircraft in the mod

vivid scarab
gray siren
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Is the original still on the workshop.

faint nacelle
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probably not. I Nicoman went against the rules and he may have got his workshop priviledges rewoked.

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dont know if that removes all of their uploads

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this guy might end up on that same boat

vivid scarab
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Might be worth tapping him to let him know - he's on here.

faint nacelle
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is he?

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feel free to mention him here

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@glass yacht your reupload that is linked above is against the workshop rules. please take it down. The guy who made it got fried just for doing this same thing with another mod.

gray siren
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is it against the rules since the orginal is delated and the orginal uploader Nicoman never worried about reuploads

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Why does every one want to report on for other people. Nicoman can if he wants to report the mod but he does not have a issue with reuploads

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as per what was stated in his mods

rapid cypress
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Afaik you have to be the mods owner to be allowed by the steam workshop agreement to upload the mod

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hm?

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is that just intended as spam or are you trying to add something to the conversation?

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oh wait not wrong way around, nvm nvm

gray siren
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Nicoman does not mind he has given blanket permission in the past to reupload his stuff witch is pointed out in the reupload

leaden cipher
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Seth Duda is the original owner(mod maker) of that mod, Nicoman was never the original owner.

gray siren
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Duda all so has blanket reupload for his mod

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Duda is no longer active but on the Gitup the mods he allows free use

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So yeah or the advance mods have this

faint nacelle
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ok so

spark bay
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Only thing you could probably get the reuploaders of this mod is by checking if the MIT license is included in the reuploads πŸ˜„

faint nacelle
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for Steam workshop how it could be done correctly is to make the original mod a dependency for a patch mod that applies the fixes

gray siren
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why

faint nacelle
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steam workshop EULA prohibits uploading of things you are not the maker of

gray siren
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Where in the EULA does it say that

shut ore
spark bay
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6D

gray siren
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i cant find that in the EULA that you cant upload other peoples work.

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there are plenty of mods that include work done by other peoples and other modders

lone basin
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i cant find that in the EULA that you cant upload other peoples work.
Steam Workshop article 6d iirc

hallow idol
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6D indeed

gray siren
#

D. Representations and Warranties

You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

hallow idol
spark bay
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nt. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you

faint nacelle
spark bay
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Originally created by you

gray siren
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dont for get the OR

spark bay
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So in fact, you can modify MIT stuff all you like, but you need to patch is with a dependency and not reupload it

gray siren
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or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors

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Dula MIT gives such right

spark bay
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yeah, but the original mod is no longer a Workshop Contribution

gray siren
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so

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the MIT is the thing that gives the right to reupload

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This why it is dumb for a 3rd part to try and remove mods. Unless you know what the full in and out of a mod and then trying to go after the mod as a third party is morally wrong

carmine folio
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Can we please put this in #other_ip_topics , I ain't a mod but this seems to just be going into a discussion.

faint nacelle
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thats where we are

carmine folio
hallow idol
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The description

gray siren
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we are talking about wether a mod is "legal" or not

hallow idol
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"In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors)."
"You furthermore represent and warrant that the User Generated Content, your submission of that Content, and your granting of rights in that Content does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation."

shut ore
#

ok im a bit confused why this is even a problem the creator openly states you can just reupload even monetize his mod, a mod made for free for people to enjoy and now youre trying to get the allowed reuploaders banned since to original creator got banned for other work that has nothing to do with the mod being reuploaded? Or are you trying to get the mod removed because REUPLOAD BAD

faint nacelle
#

We are trying to make sure this guy doing a reupload does not get his workshop priviledges revoked like the other guy who apparently did because all his stuff vanished from the workshop. In general reuploads are bad and useless and mostly just people slapping their own name on the thing just to promote themselves.

shut ore
#

but wasnt the mod was reuploaded only after it got taken down and its even encouraged to do anything with the mod even to promote themself even if they did not make it themself

faint nacelle
#

One can write anything to the description of a workshop item. no links to the original license was provided so its not very apparent what the original license is.

#

Also this reupload violates whaever IP mr Nicoman has done on his version. He probably would not object, but when clear permission is not available, one can not assume permission is granted.

rapid cypress
#

This all seems like territory that has been treaded multiple times before in this channel ablobderpy

shut ore
faint nacelle
#

yes the original one

#

this is reupload of someone elses version

shut ore
#

you have to be memeing

low pebble
#

Yes

#

Ofcourse

#

Is nico has put his code in it

hallow idol
#

Yes, and Nicoman allows reuploads of his mod

#

Which is also stated on his mod

#

But can't be posted, or him asked for.. obvious reasons

low pebble
#

@hallow idol No where in that re-upload is a license to be found so one can also guess

faint nacelle
#

if no license is availbable everything is denied

shut ore
#

no

low pebble
#

Yes

faint nacelle
#

on part of Nicomans additions

#

no

low pebble
#

If no license is provided

#

nobody can do jack with it

spark bay
#

license is provided in the reupload

#

it's in the mod folder as required

faint nacelle
#

releasing something to be freely used requries such license to be explicitly given

low pebble
#

If i upload to github a piece of code right now and provide no license, then in theory the most strict license applies to that IP.

spark bay
#

true

spark bay
faint nacelle
#

I dont understand this hostile "everything has to be free" attitude, I was just trying to warn the guy of not repeating nicomans mistake

shut ore
#

its already free and even if its reuploaded its free

low pebble
spark bay
#

Yes it is

#

I just checked

low pebble
#

Oof

#

Should that not also be provided on the SW page itself ? πŸ€” Makes more sense to me...

spark bay
#

Makes more sense but is not required

hallow idol
low pebble
hallow idol
#

Yeah, exactly - regardless of sides or opinions, way to many people claiming what they think without bothering to look up any info

lone basin
#

No, a licence tells you what you can do, not the other way around

shut ore
#

it can do both

low pebble
#

We need FM... πŸ™

shut ore
#

why limit a license permits and forbids certain things reging that product

lone basin
#

it can do both
Yeah i know, maybe I should have made more clear that I was talking about when there's no licence, and why no licence =/= you can do whatever you want

gray siren
#

no you must follow the over arcing Licence. All so i will point out the Upload mentions Nicoman allowed re-uploads. In these cases it is all ways better to lean on the side of safe. And since it was mentioned to be safe then unless Nicoman files a complaint 3rd parties should stay out of it. If you want to contact Nicoman and say some one reuploaded one of his mods.

dull moon
#

for those who did not understand the steam subscriber / workshop EULA, or common licensing:

  1. if no license is applied, the MOST STRICT license applies (you can do jack πŸ’© with the content)
  2. steam / valve demands transfer of certain rights (like editing the files for compression and distribution of artwork for promotion) that ONLY the owner of rights can grant (original creator or contributor)
#

in short: to reupload content to the workshop, the owner / original creator must transfer rights to the reuploader

fluid jewel
#

surely it's only unless the original creator just says "you can reupload"

dull moon
#

doesn't count

fluid jewel
#

otherwise it's implying that the original creator doesn't even have say over what people can do with their work

#

which is kinda nonsense

dull moon
#

this is what the workshop eula says

fluid jewel
#

yeah but in practicality if the original creator doesn't care about the reupload and they're not going to ask for a takedown, it doesn't really matter

#

there's probably a billion things on the steam workshop that technically violate the eula

dull moon
#

it's not about the creator, it's what steam says

#

steam is the authority

fluid jewel
#

yeah but steam doesn't care themselves, they don't issue takedowns

#

it's only if someone reports it

dull moon
#

no. even if rules are not monitored 24/7, they still apply

#

it's written in the EULA

fluid jewel
#

yeah but what does that actually mean

#

if no one issues a takedown

dull moon
#

you can do jack πŸ’© if you are not the creator. this is what it says

fluid jewel
#

steam isn't going to do it, the original creator isn't going to do it

dull moon
#

SO WHAT??

#

god damn it

fluid jewel
#

so no one is going to do it?

faint nacelle
#

we cant say if that is going to happen

dull moon
#

why arguing over shit nobody has influence of?

fluid jewel
#

steam themselves don't really enforce the eula

chilly silo
#

yes they do

#

they just have to be aware of the problem

fluid jewel
#

only if someone reports items

gray siren
#

Again orgnial MIT gives right for reupload

dull moon
#

so, you can rape a child if nobody reports you?

#

dafuq?

#

your logic sucks

chilly silo
#

yeah and with literally thousands of items a day how else are they going to be aware?

fluid jewel
#

yeah uploading a file with the creator's permission is totally the same as raping a child

#

good comparison

dull moon
#

you didn't get it, don't you?

chilly silo
#

and how does that change the simple fact its illegal to infringe someone's IP even if they dont know you are doing it?

fluid jewel
#

I'm not talking about if they don't know about it

#

I'm talking about cases where they know about it, and allow it

gray siren
#

The IP holder in this case has given every one free access and use of there IP

chilly silo
#

WAIT... where does it say you cant re-upload WITH proper permission?

dull moon
#

nowhere

gray siren
#

in the MIT

dull moon
#

Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

fluid jewel
#

that's what was being implied

#

in short: to reupload content to the workshop, the owner / original creator must transfer rights to the reuploader

dull moon
#

permission to reupload is not transfer of rights as steam eula demands

fluid jewel
#

yeah that's what I mean, that implies that the only way that someone can re-upload, is if the original creator gives up his rights to it

chilly silo
#

The Steam EULA does NOT prohibit re-uploads. BUT YOU MUST have proper authorisation from the AUTHOR to give VALVE rights over the Author's IP.

gray siren
#

scroll up to start of the issue but in short the mod is a reupload but the orginial mod maker Dula has given free use for the mod

#

to do with what any body wishes

chilly silo
#

But he doesnt specifically give permission to deed his rights to 3rd parties.

#

Just that you can modify his work

dull moon
#

The Steam EULA does NOT prohibit re-uploads. BUT YOU MUST have proper authorisation from the AUTHOR to give VALVE rights over the Author's IP.
which means, that the reuploader must have the rights to grant valve rights for modification of the files, ect

gray siren
#

he actually says you can sell it if you wish

#

total access is given

chilly silo
#

Link me please - theres loads of links to lots of things

gray siren
worn sleet
#

What are the following conditions?

gray siren
#

click the link to find out

worn sleet
#

No

gray siren
#

i am not posting the entier thing

shut ore
chilly silo
#

Yes hes read it. As have I

dull moon
#

i have read it more often than a alcoholic the backprint of his beer bottles

#

in two languages even

gray siren
#

why must you reread it

dull moon
#

i like reading and understanding stuff

#

Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

gray siren
#

but yes as pointed out Dula made the mod and given free use to the mod to do with what any body wants

shut ore
#

as long as you repost the readme wich has been done

chilly silo
#

"Sublicense" does not equal "deed rights" in my opinion but I would suggest thats up to a real Lawyer to defince.

gray siren
#

since Dula is not a squar he lets people use his self as they want

shut ore
dull moon
#

sure. that's what the flag is for

chilly silo
drowsy maple
#

if it's full rights including commercialization then the reuploader has every right to grant access to anyone they wish, including steam/valve

dull moon
#

noooo
no word of transfer of rights as an owner

#

ffs

gray siren
#

what i am libertarian i hate all government control even though i work for one

chilly silo
fluid jewel
#

no one's taking ownership

glass yacht
#

^

dull moon
#

which is needed for a reupload

#

duh

gray siren
#

no

fluid jewel
#

if it implied taking onwership then only one upload of it could exist on the workshop at one time

shut ore
#

and even if someone would be taking ownership it dosent matter since its free

chilly silo
#

erm... pretty sure thats whats been claimed above.

gray siren
#

you dont need to own the mod to reulpoad it

shut ore
#

no you dont need ownership to reupload

dull moon
shut ore
#

ithought you read the eula?

dull moon
#

doesn't make it right

chilly silo
#

No you need the clear authorisation to assign Valve Rights over it.

drowsy maple
#

or just straight up consent to do so

glass yacht
#

I made a few edits to the structure of mod to cut filesize down, but I do not claim ownership and the original readme is included, to reupload and edit the mod is considered permissible per the readme, which is:

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

I infer this as the ability to forgo transfer of ownership and is itself a clear authorization to reupload the mod

chilly silo
#

LMAO another myth

gray siren
#

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
D. Representations and Warranties

You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

shut ore
fluid jewel
#

or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors that sounds like reupload permission to me

chilly silo
fluid jewel
#

if someone says "you can reupload" that sounds like "you have the right to submit"

chilly silo
glass yacht
#

it is very clear in that EULA

dull moon
#

oh FFS...
why keep posting the same πŸ’© EULA quotes if you dont understand them?

gray siren
#

@chilly silo i am sorry you are very much wrong. I might make a mod but ask some else to upload it for me. In that case i as the mod maker am still the owner. Uploader is just uploader

fluid jewel
#

and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors what is this supposed to mean then?

glass yacht
#

this is the EULA included in the original mod that I have reuploaded, which clearly grants the ability to edit and republish advanced rappelling, which I believe is the concern of this discussion

gray siren
#

you all read what you want to in to EULA

chilly silo
shut ore
drowsy maple
#

so saying "I allow anyone to upload this for any reason"

fluid jewel
chilly silo
#

But when you make that statement you should acknowledge that you are allowing X to give Valve rights to your IP on your behalf.

hallow idol
chilly silo
# shut ore THATS DONE

but its not clear enough for a service that requires you deed rights to them to use the service

gray siren
#

seems clear to me since i dont have biases against reuploads

chilly silo
hallow idol
drowsy maple
#

we don't care about your opinion here

chilly silo
#

Sublicense doesnt mean you can assume legal rights

#

oh here we go

hallow idol
#

And the guy who's mod was posted in the very beginning followed the law

#

So his mod shouldn't be removed, nor he be banned from the workshop

chilly silo
#

Ok easy fix. Ping Duda - he still uses his steam account. And simply ask him to post a clarification to his wishes and all your bithching goes away.

#

Its really very simple

gray siren
#

my opoin means i am talking out my ass

#

Dula is non active

hallow idol
#

I have an easier fix:

worn sleet
#

Way to go and try to distract from the argument when you see the word β€œopinion”. πŸͺ΅ Wouldn’t get 2 short ones from that

hallow idol
glass yacht
#

It still seems very clear to me that my Advanced Rappelling fork is a-okay. The EULA included with the original mod's readme.txt gives express permission for anyone to reupload. The only clause in the EULA is to include this same readme file, which I have done. This does not, in any way, violate the author's intent and I have followed it to the letter.

hallow idol
#

"The MIT License (MIT)

Copyright (c) 2016 Seth DUDA

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software."

chilly silo
dull moon
#

working for over 20y in a business where you have to deal with copyright and IP almost daily, representing artists in copyright and IP disputes, have licensed your own work countless times, and a kid on the internet tells you after a 10min facebook reserach: you're wrong...
i πŸ¦† ing out...
muting this πŸ’© show now

drowsy maple
#

yet you misunderstand how rights work? how do you have a job still?...

chilly silo
glass yacht
#

The argument here seems to be legality vs author's intent. It has not been my intent to go against the author's intent or the absolution of law. I have merely done which I have fairly inferred in an educated light, to be the correct course of action.

hallow idol
#

Wdym?

chilly silo
fluid jewel
#

I think he wasn't replying to you

chilly silo
#

Shocking isnt it

drowsy maple
#

not you, but... you also i'm having doubts about

hallow idol
#

He says his mod can be reauploaded - it's reuploaded

chilly silo
#

LMAO

hallow idol
#

The new mod maker says "my mod can be reuploaded" - it is also reuploaded

chilly silo
#

You are litterally missing the entire point

drowsy maple
#

i've been looking through your stuff and you reference laws that don't even apply to steam

shut ore
chilly silo
#

LMAO everything applies to IP law

drowsy maple
#

you reference UK laws, while STEAM/valve only applies to US law

shut ore
#

please at this point im just confused

hallow idol
gray siren
#

as i said i have had issues with RKSL under standing of of steam laws

glass yacht
#

Okay, hypothetically speaking, what about the other reuploads of Advanced Rappelling that add their own features in?

gray siren
#

your opion is not fact

drowsy maple
#

or rather, only US laws apply to steam, not UK ones

gray siren
#

have you won any cases on steam or only the UK

glass yacht
#

How can those be any different to my own reupload? I have made my own edits to cut down filesize, just as they have made their own edits too.

chilly silo
#

it doesnt overide regional IP laws

chilly silo
gray siren
#

i am stating opion

fluid jewel
#

I think we're getting a bit off-topic here

glass yacht
#

Absolutely.

hallow idol
#

@gray siren is stating his opinion

chilly silo
hallow idol
glass yacht
#

It's now more a matter of argument than any point to be made.

hallow idol
#

That is the difference

chilly silo
hallow idol
#

Also people here aren't going and trying to get people removed from the workshop because of their opinions

gray siren
#

@chilly silo what people DMCA against you

vivid scarab
glass yacht
#

Nobody has fairly answered my question, and the resolution of the argument still remains up in the air to me, the original center of this argument.

hallow idol
#

regardless of what you have behind it, this is the internet - not a court house

fluid jewel
molten kraken
chilly silo
#

Opinon + Real expereince = informed Opinion which is much better than just opinion

hallow idol
#

in your opnion*

drowsy maple
#

but is not fact

gray siren
#

still opion

fluid jewel
#

3cb did that?

chilly silo
chilly silo
glass yacht
#

You're forgoing author's intent, which is, while from a legal standpoint perhaps baseless, to allow deviation and edits of the mod.

gray siren
#

yeah author intent is every thing

chilly silo
glass yacht
#

I understand that the author has not given me, explicitly, permission, but that is no different than the author explicitly allowing everyone to do whatever under a blanket method, which is what has been done here. In this instance, either way would permit reuploading the mod. One such way is employed here, which is under scrutiny for the sake of "is he allowed to do that?"

#

The author's clear intent is to allow edits and fixes, which has been done in the past through nicoman's original reupload, and vurtual's comparable reupload. I don't imagine that any similar argument has occurred over those reuploads. Fairly, one could argue that those reuploads contain fair edits, but I would retort that my own reupload does also contain fair edits.

shut ore
#

my god i dont get how this is in anyway a problem, you clearly dont give a singular fuck about what the author wants since the original creator clearly states "do whatever with it", at this point youre just trying to get the reuploader banned due to having a problem with reuploads of any kind even if the author dosent

chilly silo
#

Look thats is a simple fix to all of this. Get Duda to post a clarification on the original page. If he wants to make the upload of his work completely Opensource with zero commercial and licence restrictions all he needs to do is say it.

#

its that simple

gray siren
#

Duda is gone

glass yacht
#

You only care for a clarification to clear your own mind. There is no need for clarification for something already very clear.

hallow idol
gray siren
#

he is no longer active

chilly silo
#

His steam account is still in use. hes just no modding anymore

hallow idol
chilly silo
#

Where?

shut ore
hallow idol
chilly silo
#

Oh FFS and around we go again

hallow idol
#

A person doesn't need to repeat his words, legally or logically

chilly silo
#

I give up - you have no idea.

gray siren
#

from his discord
Q: Can you help me with something related to the mod itself? Why won't this tracks on map x wont work? I found something cool, can you add it?
A: No, duda has gone on an indefinite hiatus due to personal life, so ATS is no longer recieving any official updates.

Thanks for reading this!
The rest of the @Developers and @Radium , Community Manager
@ everyone
[4:37 AM]
Just a short note, the mod is pretty much dead since @duda has gone. I dont think he will ever return.

chilly silo
#

Doesnt mean hes not using his steam account

#

dear dog.

shut ore
#

he clearly states what he wants you just want to fuck with it

hallow idol
#

No need to insult people

#

@chilly silo

chilly silo
hallow idol
#

I have not insulted anybody

glass yacht
#

Clarification is unneeded anyhow because there's already several reuploads of duda's mods which are under his same EULA. If those reuploads went against his EULA, there would have been action against them. There has been no action by him on these reuploads. There has only been action by third parties now because I put "reupload" in the title.

gray siren
#

i mean it very clear what his intent is.

hallow idol
#

Neither has andrewza

chilly silo
#

HAHA

#

ok

gray siren
#

post the insult

hallow idol
#

Questioning your claims or knowledge because of what you say compared to what I know isn't an insult

shut ore
#

i dont get why you are argueing about this honestly

glass yacht
#

I have given fair counter arguments and nobody seems to acknowledge or contest them, I therefore must assume per my point of reasoning, and my claims, that my reupload is fair.

hallow idol
#

But calling somebody a "dog" is. I just want the discussion to continue in a civil manner

glass yacht
#

That ends my part.

faint nacelle
#

@hallow idol read it backwards..

chilly silo
#

Right i have better things to do. Fact remains that the Moderators here will do what they understand the law to be and whatever BI Studios guides them to do. Crying about it will not change that.

hallow idol
faint nacelle
#

typo

#

its "dear god"

chilly silo
hallow idol
#

Is it a British thing? Didn't know to read text backwards

chilly silo
#

No it was a simple typo

hallow idol
#

I find it hard to believe that the letter 'g' and 'd' can be typod, but regardless I will take your word for it

chilly silo
#

But your reaction says a lot.

glass yacht
#

This is completely unrelated to the topic.

#

You all are going back and forth over semantics.

hallow idol
#

My actions to attempt for a civil discussion?

drowsy maple
#

wait, am I to understand that you are dyslexic and yet you claim to understand laws?

chilly silo
#

Yeah and since you wont accept any opinion other than your own there no point me trying to change it based of my own expereince. So I'm out. Have fun.

hallow idol
#

White names have been banned for less here, I just don't want to see another mod get mass reported when he broke no rules due to a 3rd party assuming that the original creator isn't happy with the reupload

glass yacht
#

I appreciate your defense, don't misunderstand, I just feel like there's no longer a fair discussion going on

chilly silo
faint nacelle
#

no one but original creator can give a permission, anyone else can only assume

hallow idol
hallow idol
#

and the edit of this also gave perms, as written way way up in this channel

drowsy maple
#

but you use your left hand for both G and D keys

glass yacht
drowsy maple
#

the same finger actually

chilly silo
faint nacelle
#

was speaking more in general since this conversation has long gone deviated from your upload

chilly silo
glass yacht
#

Ah, excuse my misunderstanding then.

hallow idol
faint nacelle
#

was answering to halcyon

chilly silo
#

it wasa legit typo - but you NEED it to be an insult for you to be right so you wont accept my explantion. So nothing i can say

shut ore
chilly silo
hallow idol
chilly silo
#

But hey ho - if you go talk to a lawyer im 99% certain he will say the same,

hallow idol
#

@drowsy maple I believe you did, did the lawyer say the same?

drowsy maple
#

no, no they did not lol

gray siren
#

thats your opion. But i dont see any bad or good guys. Only dont want a mod removed for no reason

hallow idol
#

^

drowsy maple
#

uncle is a lawyer

#

currently living with him

chilly silo
#

OK ill bite. Woof woof. Who said the mod was going to be removed? Or is this more Andrew shit stirring because he mis-read something again?

gray siren
#

no one said that

chilly silo
gray siren
#

i was pointing out that what he did was not wrong

chilly silo
gray siren
#

what drama

#

there was non till you came

shut ore
chilly silo
#

LAMO oh wow ok

hallow idol
chilly silo
#

all this above is not drama?

gray siren
#

no

hallow idol
#

Wasn't at first, like @gray siren said

#

People came to defend a mod that was told to be deleted

chilly silo
hallow idol
#

MY experience tells me that when a blue name tells somebody in this channel to remove the mod - and they don't

chilly silo
#

Look - i have things to do. And this is going nowhere.

hallow idol
#

They get DMCA'd or massreported, and banned from the discord

fresh briar
#

In whatever way

chilly silo
#

I dont know you'd have to ask the guy giving advice.

hallow idol
#

and it seems that I am not the only one who shares this experience, since otherwise I'd be the only one defending him

chilly silo
#

And there no need to swear

fresh briar
#

I want to

gray siren
#

how rude

#

lets be civil

fresh briar
#

But honest

#

Was it said free use?

gray siren
#

yes

hallow idol
#

Yes

chilly silo
fresh briar
#

No problem there

#

He can use it

#

Simple

hallow idol
#

Rule 3 "No name calling" included..)
But regardless of that - please keep civil too Termin

fresh briar
#

Yes i saw

chilly silo
#

Lets just see what the mods say - im sure its been flagged more than a few times by now

fresh briar
#

Focus

gray siren
#

i mean the mods here are all so not experts

fresh briar
#

Free use

chilly silo
#

No but they are working off guidance they have and their best efforts to make sure the community remains fair and legal.

#

FreeUse doesnt not mean you have the right to assume ownership and deed that ownership to others.

fresh briar
#

Its gonna be fair if you just not look at this at all

#

Free use means i can use it how i want

#

Literally mine

chilly silo
#

I can already see the same with people "spamming channels saying hey they are going to take X mod down" when no one in authority actually said that

hallow idol
faint nacelle
#

can say there has not been anything said for couple of days on the veteran channel. that kind of paranoid rumour mongering/flame bating does not belong here.

glass yacht
#

I'm still going off of the author's original intent, expressed through the EULA which he used, being;

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
chilly silo
#

it seems to happen alot round here atm

glass yacht
#

That seems clear enough to me that my reupload and fork of the mod is valid.

fresh briar
#

Why are you tagged veteran even?

#

Permission is granted

chilly silo
#

Right im out. @Toot read my earlier replies again. it will save time and spam πŸ˜› We are all back on the circle again.

hallow idol
#

"Right im out" is a circle too

glass yacht
#

left im in

#

up im left

hallow idol
#

Even higher up Revo wrote too

#

That the license was provided inside Nico's mod

chilly silo
#

yeah - but i try to help and i get attacked so hey ho. I've had enough for today.

hallow idol
#

and never claimed any ownership

shut ore
#

im genuinly confused

gray siren
#

based but unwised there Termin

fresh briar
#

I know that they can cry and block me for every possible bullshit

#

Im not scared

chilly silo
fresh briar
#

You can step down from mods

chilly silo
#

Im not a mod

shut ore
fresh briar
#

Heh

faint nacelle
#

people here are getting a bit too riled up

#

I suggest you all think now before talking any more.

fresh briar
#

Free use is free use

leaden adder
#

What the heck is going on

hallow idol
fresh briar
#

No fun allowed

chilly silo
#

Its really not the same when it comes to IP. Whether you agree with it or not. - I'm really out now i have work to do.

fresh briar
#

No free use when free use

glass yacht
# faint nacelle <@!157772941411483649> your reupload that is linked above is against the worksh...

I'd hate to ping you but I consider my side of the discussion to fairly answer and clear up the fairness of my fork of the mod. I would like a fair resolution. My mod is a fair edit which is permissible by the original author's intent, expressed through the EULA that was utilized. Had this been a concern altogether, the other such reuploads and forks which are just the same as my mod would have been removed as well. They have not, and my mod is no different than theirs.

Do you consider my reupload permitted? I'm asking more at this point to ease my mind.

faint nacelle
#

In my opinion its still unclear to me if enough permission is transferred. My intent was just to warn you of a possible breaking of the rules in case you did not know it

hallow idol
#

Would make more sense to ask some @veteran_moderator - since their word "goes", I believe, Halcy

#

Correct me if I'm wrong through please

faint nacelle
#

true

glass yacht
#

I appreciate your intention and warning very much

faint nacelle
#

I cant give a permission to do anything.

glass yacht
#

I understand that, I just cared for your opinion on the matter

fresh briar
#

Bruh moment

#

This is how bohemia helps

faint nacelle
#

@fresh briar best for you to shut up now.

glass yacht
#

@soft egret
Hello, I have a question regarding a reupload of mine that has become a point of contention in this channel. Would you have a moment to clear up some questions of mine?

faint nacelle
#

dont drink and discord.

fresh briar
#

Or what?

faint nacelle
#

you may get yourself trouble

fresh briar
#

What kind?

faint nacelle
#

trouble kind

#

sleep it off

fresh briar
#

Wanna go in dms?

faint nacelle
#

no

#

definitely not

fresh briar
#

Then dont tell me to shut up

faint nacelle
#

just an advice

fresh briar
#

I hope you will sleep tonight well

worn sleet
gray siren
#

while it is enternianing watching you get yeeted deleated it does not aid any one and in fact hurts your cause. Since people who agree with you are often all seen as guilty by association

fresh briar
worn sleet
#

But it was given, and you took it personally

fresh briar
#

I can advise him to shut up

worn sleet
#

You can, and he doesn’t have to take it either

faint nacelle
#

@worn sleet no need to reply to him, this is going far oftopic now

worn sleet
#

It is

#

Moving on

fresh briar
#

Yes because im not seeing fair work here at all

#

Maybe i should refund arma

rugged meteor
#

lmao based

fresh briar
#

And tell all my friends do the same

rugged meteor
#

whats the ruling on uploading other peoples scenarios if they have no licenses

#

and they arent already on ws

grave meadow
#

???

#

I am just peering into this chat and so confused

rugged meteor
#

just genuine question

tulip nexus
#

Strictest license applies when there is no license

rugged meteor
#

where is that legally stated

faint nacelle
#

google "no license" and take your pick I guess

chilly silo
#

https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/

Choose a License
No License

You’re under no obligation to choose a license and it’s your right not to include one with your code or project. But please note that opting out of open source licenses doesn’t mean you’re opting out of copyright law.

tulip nexus
#

Because that's how IP works. Rights are exclusively yours until you grant it to other people

rugged meteor
#

i see

#

would that follow with scenarios though?

faint nacelle
#

yes

#

why would it not?

chilly silo
#

any creative works

grave meadow
#

Like I agree you can't 100% copy someone haha. you would have to at least contact the owner and ask for permission to do certain things.

keen trout
#

that's why steam requires permissions from author(s) for redistribution etc on workshop

rugged meteor
#

i assumed it wouldn't because its a composition and not technically an original work

faint nacelle
#

to composition part is original

chilly silo
#

Like a short story?

low pebble
rugged meteor
#

interesting

keen trout
#

original author(s)

low pebble
#

^

keen trout
#

as there can be more than one

hallow idol
#

@rugged meteor also this
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
6.D. Representations and Warranties

You represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in all User Generated Content to grant Valve and other affected parties the licenses described under A. and B. above or in any license terms specific to the applicable Workshop-Enabled App or Workshop page. This includes, without limitation, any kind of intellectual property rights or other proprietary or personal rights affected by or included in the User Generated Content. In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

You furthermore represent and warrant that the User Generated Content, your submission of that Content, and your granting of rights in that Content does not violate any applicable contract, law or regulation.

low pebble
#

Course.

#

Oh wait

#

***originally created by you ***

#

(or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors)

worn sleet
#

If you made it you own it. If you don't apply a licence, strictest is applied by default

hallow idol
low pebble
low pebble
worn sleet
#

Yes, unless you get express permission from the ORIGINAL authors

rugged meteor
#

I see

low pebble
shut ore
#

this been done read to death please just read whats been talked about today and dont start with the same stuff again

worn sleet
#

Just remember to follow any and all conditions they set when/if you get permission. If you don't get permission, do nothing

low pebble
hallow idol
low pebble
hallow idol
#

Everything was cleared and and finished earlier

faint nacelle
#

you 2 please stop again

low pebble
#

Yeeh and when i came back here there were like 580 messages going on about the same stuff. So stop telling me what to do and do it yourself. How bout that ?

faint nacelle
#

too many people typing right now.

hallow idol
low pebble
#

We need a -FM- throwing the mute around.

gray siren
#

does not like that the echo chamber is no longer a echo chamber so calls for mutes

chilly silo
hallow idol
#

No need to call people out @gray siren , the people who matter will see this shitshow and understand themselves

#

Just follow Goat's advise, the actual discussions over for a while now

low pebble
fresh briar
#

Bruh

glass yacht
#

Quoted;
I'm not sure why the IP violations community is up in arms about this, the license does cover this particular situation, and as you've said there are two or so other forks of AUR that haven't been acted upon because they aren't in violation of the license. As you seem to be abiding by the license (you've uploaded a fork of a fork with a few personal edits, modification and distribution is covered by the license), and since you've also uploaded the mod under the same license (MIT), I don't see an issue personally.

Since you've contacted us, and your mod complies with the license, it should fairly comply with the SSA as well since you've had a dev member look at it.```
#

and there's your answer people

fresh briar
#

Kill

#

Thanks for not helping

rugged meteor
#

next question

fresh briar
#

Armaholic is violating then

rugged meteor
#

if yall have full control over the WS now, why is stuff like SWOP still up?

faint nacelle
rugged meteor
#

aight

pliant oar
#

it's because we don't waste time hunting every IP violation, only those which are reported

#

and those which are more damaging gets priority

#

like when someone DMCA us instead of Valve

rugged meteor
#

oh, i see

#

i mean, id say they'd have a pretty big priority

#

they went back on WS several months ago and its litterally the same mod from 2018

#

no changes, stuff from EA BF1 and other games is still present

pliant oar
#

if it was about fairness, every single item at workshop which hasn't IP rights owned or authorship by the uploader, would be gone, but that would be ideal world

rugged meteor
#

understandable

fresh briar
#

It should be about fairness

#

For customer

pliant oar
#

random customer has no say in IP matters between IP owner and the thief stealing it

fresh briar
#

Customer always has a say

pliant oar
#

that's what IP laws are about and for

#

customer is not entitled into anything, mods are optional

#

i wonder do people even read eulas and tos before tossing such nonsense ?

fresh briar
#

We can disagree with this

rugged meteor
#

i mean id hope so, hes a dev

pliant oar
#
  1. because you dont know how the system works and what are the limitations or caveats
#
  1. because you misunderstand IP laws and authorship
rugged meteor
#

regardless, is reuploads of mods more important than the singlular mod that disney acted legal action on that also simultaneously destroyed respect for all star wars mods?

#

because, its there, and its violating laws

low pebble
rugged meteor
#

better question, how would I go actually reporting these?

pliant oar
#

customer can report the stolen content to us , ip owner too and / or to Valve too

low pebble
#

Read the channel description.

rugged meteor
#

i see

pliant oar
#

and there are certain technical caveats which don't allow me e.g. list most-reported items at workshop

rugged meteor
#

yea ive done steam reports before and nothings happened

pliant oar
#

if that existed ... 99% would be gone

fresh briar
#

Exept it was not stolen

rugged meteor
#

well, ive seen enough, peace

pliant oar
low pebble
#

He's gone Dwarden.

#

The chickenmon guy

pliant oar
#

unless you obtained WRITTEN approval from the IP holder (or the IP holder has publicly posted such approval for non-profit or end-users generated content)

#

then legally that thing has NO place on STEAM workshop as you breaking the TOS

fresh briar
#

Lets make it more complicated for people

pliant oar
#

typical example , if you make certain scifi popular UI interface, you breaking theirs IP ownership cause they protected it extra, same goes for languages and uniforms and so forth, not just name but also the designs, textures etc.

#

there plenty Indie 'universes' which are good and robust enough w/o IP minefield and you have higher chance to actually obtain approval for non-profit and even for-profit projects than >insert random popular big IP content<

gray siren
#

languages?

#

O never mind

#

you mean like elfish and stuff

ancient flax
#

So question then @pliant oar how does that separate things like optre from the rest? Is it due to msoft blanket feel free to use kinda deal or something else?

soft egret
#

NO! thats wrong. A license tells people whats ALLOWED to be done. No license means nothing is allowed.

#

No its not.

soft egret
glass yacht
#

Yes, I've gotten permission to do so, though when I had pinged you, I had some questions that were unanswered, which since have been answered, so I apologize for the ping

#

Originally, permission was indirectly granted through the author's intent in their utilized EULA, which caused an argument here and some general confusion. I went to lengths to get express permission to edit and reupload the fork of AUR, which I now have and therefore the reupload is considered by the authors as permitted

rapid cypress
#

aaaaah you're starting it again dedmen y u do dis notlikemeow

marsh maple
#

If I see stuff in SW violating base "do not import models from EA games" rule and Valve doesn't care with reports, where should I write?

worn sleet
#

To EA

gray siren
#

Or disney

tall oxide
#

that i would doubt.
If i contribute a single line of code in a big work of yours, i am by law a contributor and you have no right to distribute the work without my permission, unless you take out my contribution, or we agree on something like open source etc.
But that would probably need a lawyer to determine where the line is between contribution and not contribution.

#

only german law has a minimal limit for IP rights, most other countries dont afaik

soft egret
#

If a author writes a series of 5 books that belong together. And you contributed on one of them that doesn't make you contributor on the others.

#

Also I think you are talking about something different? We are not talking about the original author uploading his own mod

tall oxide
#

hell im no lawyer πŸ˜„

#

i just watched some yt videos on the topic

tulip nexus
#

BI's own licensing works on the bases of packages - .pbo files, rather than the entire game content. Some .pbo have different license to other .pbos so far as extracting data from old games. Which is why the licensed data .7z archives exist

tall oxide
#

ah okay, then dedmen is probably right, if each pbo is treated as its own work.

soft egret
#

ACE also has some PBO's with seperate license

fossil basalt
#

@low pebble 15+ people mentioned your comment to me, and I re-joined to leave this comment.

As I've told others, that's what happens when you focus on the rights of the individual over the rights of many. Arma is (or at least was) about the community as a whole, not about the rights of one or two toxic individuals. You can never please each individual in a group, but you can create an environment that while not perfect, is at least acceptable to the group as a whole.

IP rights violators should be banned permanently, and their accounts should be blocked from Steam (not in BI's control, though if it is, I doubt they would enforce, you only have to look at how many times ANZUS have been given monetisation permission despite their multiple IP violations and EULA violations). They are in clear violation of BI's own rules, yet continually get approval.

low pebble
fossil basalt
#

And this is also why I was pushed out.

#

Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

low pebble
#

I know, i heard a bit. Not something i would discuss here tho.

paper prawn
#

Good to see you back among us even without the tag -FM-

delicate hamlet
manic laurel
low pebble
manic laurel
low pebble
#

Yeh either that or he got steppe on his toes.

#

Anyway, heavily offtopic

manic laurel
#

I hope he knows people care about him and not just for the appearances.

but back on topic

leaden adder
#

Was the Advanced Urban Repelling mod removed for IP infringement? Remember seeing something in here about it a bit ago, and people in my unit are asking about it

rustic copper
#

It's still on the workshop, so you probably used an re-upload instead of the official version

leaden adder
#

Hmm

#

Apparently it mysteriously disappeared

#

Ah

#

We used Advanced Urban Repelling Rework

#

No mention of that in here either

#

Odd

rustic copper
#

If someone took the script without permission, made a small change and uploaded it, chance is big it got taken down.
And this channel doesn't contain all DMCA claims, if we would do that Discord would complain about the amount of comments posted in this channel πŸ˜…

leaden adder
#

Lol

#

AFAIK it was official or made with permission, but I can't be 100% sure. Just asked because I thought I saw it posted in this channel, but it was just a reupload of one of the AUR mods.

faint nacelle
#

if ti was the one mentioned earlier its likely it went down with the rest of the guys workshop stuff when his workshop permissions got rewoked.

#

or he made everything private. we dont know what went down

leaden adder
#

No it was different I think

faint nacelle
crystal talon
#

It might just have gotten unlisted due to EULA updates

vivid scarab
#

It was manually removed - he'd already accepted the EULA changes.

vivid scarab
#

Whew boy, big one.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2420287712

Contains the entirety of numerous mods - RHS, NIArms, RKSL, Service & Supply, Spearpoint, Specialist Military Arms, USM, USP, VETERAN, Vidda, 3CB, CUP, Aegis, R3F, ArmaModFrance, ArmedForces UK, DHI, etc. CUP, HLC, RKSL 3CB, USP, VSM.

They have multiple other packs on the Workshop that I've not had a chance to look at yet, but it's reasonable to assume the same applies elsewhere.

@chilly silo @serene loom @echo orchid @runic wraith I don't know if any of the other authors are floating about, but if anyone could let them know that'd be fantastic.

echo orchid
#

@vivid scarab cheers, but do you have a list of files since i cannot check it this week?

vivid scarab
#

Uh, gimme two ticks.

#

PBOs, assuming they are unmodified, are;

@RHSAFRF
@RHSAFRFDEV
@RHSGREF
@RHSGREFDEV
@RHSPKL
@RHSSAF
@RHSSAFDEV
@RHSTERRACORE
@RHSUSAF
@RHSUSAFDEV

echo orchid
#

i am asking because the crawler pulls no results

#

these are i assume folders, not pbos

plain rivet
#

The mod also contains OPTRE and FC. Our team is investigating at this time

echo orchid
#

via crawler can confirm CUP, 3CB and RKSL at a minimum

vivid scarab
#

Checking the folders.

#

There's definitely PBOs in here - rhs_2s1, rhs_bmd, rhs_btr70 from @RHSAFRF as examples.

echo orchid
#

ok cheers will DMCA then

plain rivet
vivid scarab
#

Interesting.

plain rivet
vivid scarab
vivid scarab
plain rivet
#

All good. At least we found some violations. We’ll be dealing with them

vivid scarab
#

I'm not quite sure how I managed that one.

soft egret
plain rivet
finite crescent
#

Immerse is my Stuff Greenmag i know the Dev so i can relink him that one too

soft egret
#

Did I remember right that you were involed with lambs?

finite crescent
#

yes but the others are a bit more loose with that.

#

and i dont want to over rule them

plain rivet
strange elm
#

i know this might be a far fetched idea but is there a way we could have a channel that we could anonymously drop links that only the person dropping the link and those that review them can see? only reason i ask is that i know that many communities have a history of black listing individuals, and those lists sometimes get circulated to other communities. and i wouldnt want that to happen to me or anyone else here that is trying to imrove the arma community, and the steam workshop legalities if that makes sense?

rapid cypress
#

It'd props be easier to just pm it to a mod

strange elm
#

true that i guess

rapid cypress
#

a chat like that wouldnt be 100% secure since you'd still be posting a message that'd just then get deleted by a bot

#

so theoretically a user bot could still catch those messages I imagine

leaden cipher
#

Well I have seen a bot in a discord where issues could be reported and after posting a bot would "hide" the message and redirect/move it to a mods/server channel, so only mods/server owner could see the message in a separate channel of course.

strange elm
#

yeah thats kind of what i was thinking

manic laurel
#

a "write-only" chat

strange elm
#

another problem id see with doing something like that, would be the maturity of the community, i can see someone setting up a mass of folks to spam it and harass the mods kind of like what happens when "SW" comes up xD

manic laurel
#

thing is, you can do that in any channel

#

and we have logs

strange elm
#

true

cinder ridge
#

Not sure who to ping, so if you know please do so.

faint nacelle
#

couple of these are very new. πŸ€”

#

spring time popping up new servershost wannabes or something

runic wraith
#

@cinder ridge Thanks. DMCA'd

carmine folio
#

Remember the Munje unit my team DMCAd last month?

#

(I talked about them on my old discord profile aka @carmine folio )

#

Well, them nutjobs repacked parts my HOS mod and parts of the WIP HoY mod, reuploaded NatanBrody's IDF and mine WIP Bosnian Serb Army mod

#

Is there a chance that perm ban on steam can happen?

dull moon
#

Report your case to Dwarden. But only if it's the same person who violated your rights

carmine folio
#

Yuup

untold charm
#

its been more than the last few months, I was there in January 2020 and its been going since before that even with paying people, I left with a small group because it was kind of a mess there

soft egret
#

yes we know

#

I didn't say it was only the last few months

untold charm
#

think they wanted to avoid legal action by staying quiet but doubt they ever stopped

soft egret
#

they didn't

untold charm
#

even people being paid wanted to leave which shows how bad it could be there

#

Aris was willing to buy people DLC for DCS just to play with him at one point

#

then there was a rumour he laundered money through a security company or something

soft egret
#

ok and you're telling me that now, why?

untold charm
#

its all to do with BIA, you never know if any of it becomes useful

carmine folio
#

BiAs sponsor is some shady gaming apparel company

#

A few of my buddies made some good money playing with them, 1/2nd of a minimum salary in Bosnia by playing ARMA

simple saddle
# soft egret yes we know

Dont want to be rude or something , but mate if they exist and are breaking EULA in that way , why do they still exist?

soft egret
#

Don't ask me that. I don't know

#

I'm not involved in that

simple saddle
#

Who is?

it has been a long discussion about them in this channel , yet nothing happened.

soft egret
#

I don't know who makes the decisions

carmine folio
#

How legal is it to make a banlist for a selected mod?

soft egret
#

why legal?

#

You can forbid anyone coming into your house if you don't want them there

carmine folio
#

I remember there being some shit with the USP Banlist breaking EULA

#

So it's good to go in terms of BI and SteamWS?

soft egret
#

I don't know against which EULA that would go

carmine folio
#

Great! Off to learning SQF I go!

burnt oak
#

IIRC it is not breaking the eula, it something the mod makers need to decide for themselves. In the end they need to add their black list in a way it does not hinder none blacklisted people. In the example of usp, it was added in a way that may have caused performance issues and might break other mods.

vivid scarab
#

SWOP did the same thing, if I remember correctly, just with added memory leak.

crystal talon
#

You'll probably get a bad rep if you implement it

zealous ledge
#

SWOPs is still going btw

#

last i heard at anyrate

runic wraith
runic wraith
crystal talon
#

The same kind of reason people dislike DRM. You loose a level of control over the stuff you're using by having the author able to blacklist you at any time for any reason. Like the Opposition mods blacklisting major community figures and arma devs, as an example.

#

It most likely won't happen as I'm not stupid and ripping mods, but the possibility is there.

burnt oak
dull moon
#

i'm fine with blacklists, if they would work differently...

if (lifeserver and monetized) then (block and melt server)

#

i know... scripters be like
"uhm... error in expression"
🀣

#

but you get the idea

gray siren
#

you do know you can just by pass the black lists

carmine folio
#

But with steamID64 instead of the server name

#

But it does melt the server down πŸ˜„

runic wraith
burnt oak
#

i'd rater not support such practices.

dull moon
#

if this would be a reliable way to counter illegal monetisation, i'm all in

#

or a way of shutting down servers with reuploads

mortal needle
#

The issue with blacklists is that it's very easy for them to turn from a 'I'm protecting my IP' to a 'You said something I don't like' list.
Which means your now removing peoples access to the content in a way which I feel is unethical and goes against how modders should be interacting with the community.

#

The only time I've ever implemented a blacklist into my content is when it was required by law.