#ip_rights_violations

1 messages ยท Page 52 of 1

brisk ember
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dunno why but all those miniatures are broken for me ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

dull moon
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@keen trout
Chill (who made tora bora) was last active in 2013. so i highly doubt this dude has any permission

midnight crystal
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"Pack for an event all rights reserved" LUL

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BAF

lean swallow
sharp heath
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Thanks for that

brisk ember
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@steady adder something for you lot ^

brisk ember
fossil basalt
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I can't even take a week off ๐Ÿ˜ 

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52 alerts

soft egret
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Well you also get an alert when someone calls veteran moderator

hexed marsh
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@brisk ember Thanks mate

desert sparrow
minor herald
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another

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cup weapons, tfr, cba

carmine folio
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I have submitted a takedown on that item @desert sparrow

soft egret
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These firggin stupid german life crap humans

brisk ember
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spoken like a true german ๐Ÿ˜›

soft egret
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Why is it that all these thieves add me on steam ๐Ÿค”
That same guy already added me in the past and got a DMCA from me.. And now he has a new reupload with other stuff and adds me again.. wtf

soft egret
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Hah. I accepted it. Got pulled into a group chat and they said they have TFAR problems, they wanted to ask on TFAR Discord but he was banned there "for no reason"

desert sparrow
wraith comet
soft egret
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@thin sage ^ Remove that please.

dull moon
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Oh ffs... gimme a rest please ๐Ÿ˜„

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Looks like dawn will be pissed after my next workshop rampage

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๐Ÿ˜‚

royal charm
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This is a collection of mods binded together to allow Takistan to work without fail.

...but if your modpack gets DMCA'd, and nobody can use it, doesn't that mean it failed? ๐Ÿค”

dull moon
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ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

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we'll see

carmine folio
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Yoinked content inside these, might be worth a look

mint edge
dull moon
#

@mint edge
FM is offline for the next couple of months. Tag other vets pls

mint edge
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o

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like who

dull moon
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Other orange dudes ๐Ÿ˜„

mint edge
#

@willow belfry mod above has stolen arma 2 dayz mod data

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was my mod originally and received someones "work" to pack into my mod which was taken from dayz mod so i took it down awhile back, but this person has reuploaded it

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i believe i asked them ages ago in a pm on the forum

royal charm
dull moon
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๐Ÿ˜‚

royal charm
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@mint edge Most effective way to get that content down is to issue a DMCA

mint edge
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well i dont care that he reuploaded my mod, its just that it has arma 2 stuff you cant use

carmine folio
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I never realised how good the DMCA team where @ valve

royal charm
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they're not good

mint edge
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anyway id have to prove this and that

royal charm
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they're scared that they will get sued if they dont react to DMCA

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lol

mint edge
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easier if bi just marks it as incompatible

carmine folio
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They have been good with me

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I mistyped my email and they emailed the email account from my other reports about the mistype

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Truely epic

mint edge
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thats just them calling you out for idiocy

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๐Ÿ˜„

carmine folio
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Reading it back, it does sound a tad sarcastic

willow belfry
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nothing i can do about people taking your work and reuploading it

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sadly thats on dwarden

royal charm
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@mint edge if you don't want to DMCA it for your content, you can email infringements@bistudio.com to let them know it's using BI's assets.

mint edge
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i dont care that i originally made it

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i only point out it has content taken from dayz mod

royal charm
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so

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like I just said

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you can email infringements@bistudio.com to let them know it's using BI's assets.

stoic beacon
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Hola, I've been getting reports about servers monetizing my mods, but they are not on BI's approved list, nor are they actually selling Ingame stuff.
On the monetization FAQ BI says: No, donations are still allowed. But remember โ€“ a donation is a gift without any counter value. If your donators receive perks or rewards for donating then we no longer consider it a donation and you have to apply for the approval.

"Without any counter value": does this include getting donator ranks on TeamSpeak and on the website?
This is a reward and in some cases those donator perks include reserved slots on TeamSpeak, but do the monetization rules apply outside of Arma 3 as well?
I'd guess no, but after a discussion with someone who reported a server to me, it seems unclear to me.

tropic steeple
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Server owners can't monetize their arma server(s) without approval. BI cant really tell them not to monetize their teamspeak server. Thats the gist i got from an email reply from BI asking that exact question anyway.

soft egret
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@mint edge for stolen BI content E-Mail the infringements Mail in channel description.
The moderators here can't do anything else than forwarding it to BI, but you could instead just send it directly to them.

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@stoic beacon no teamspeak ranks don't count. Only actual arma things.

stoic beacon
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Gotcha

royal charm
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Yeah, you can "monetize" your community, but you can't monetize your server without permissions.

wraith comet
royal charm
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lmao

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Searching "All rights go to" on workshop yields ~11,000 results. clicking through the first ten, all are stolen.

wraith comet
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๐Ÿ˜‚

royal charm
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nearly half of them seem to be reuploads of TFAR btw @soft egret

Dunno why, but the people who steal from you seem to be exceptionally stoopid.

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lmfao, workshop crawler says 813 reuploads. Geezus

river spear
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@wraith comet it is now

flint niche
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Contains Max Assault jeeps and Jonzies cars

soft egret
burnt oak
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not really sure who to ping for most of them

soft egret
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Chris and 3CB guys read every message here anyway

dull moon
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Just because I'm hoping for drama ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Thx diwako

sharp heath
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Thanks @sweet minnow can sort that out.

wraith comet
brisk ember
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@fallow stag ^

wraith comet
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lol

Copyrighted Modifications:
All vehicle modifications called "Red_" files are belong to Red The Dev! Copyright 2018 [Red The Dev] This items are not authorized for posting on Steam, except under the Steam account named "Red".

All other files exept files created from third parties and used under the creative commons or private licenses (Like: ACE3 and TFAR as example) are belong to Second-Life Community! Copyright 2018 This items are not authorized for posting on Steam, except under the Steam account named "Papa Gordon | Zeus โœ…".```
tulip nexus
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lmao

wraith comet
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always the germans ...

tulip nexus
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nah, the best part is "you must not re-upload these mods we've made. But we've re-uploaded a bunch of other people's"

wraith comet
soft egret
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lul. they already have a reupload life pack that got marked as incompatible

brisk ember
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How long do incompatible items remain available on the workshop?

soft egret
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forever

wraith comet
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niarms reuploads allowed?

soft egret
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no reuploads are allowed in general

wraith comet
soft egret
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Yeah.. Already know them. I DMCA'd their last reupload

wraith comet
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steam should deny wks access of too these accounts ...

soft egret
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The dumb thing is.. They have TFAR in there, AND they have a seperate TFAR only upload

wraith comet
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thinking about adding something like "life in servername then do crazy shit", in my addons

balmy lodge
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Wouldn't surprise me if by doing that would make more people reupload it and but call it skullfox mod -fix

wraith comet
stoic beacon
soft egret
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BWA3 too

dull moon
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Thx, will take care of it later

jade karma
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we have no power over Armaholic right?

pallid plaza
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quick question reuploading tfar is illegal right?

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TFAR, i think CUP, tons of cars, ACE, NIArms

soft egret
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99% of reuploads are illegal

pallid plaza
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ah ok xD

muted lantern
jade karma
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hm.. cause mods that unlock DLC content is definetly illegal yes?

soft egret
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that too yeah

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May just send these to bohemia via the email in the channel description, they will take care of it

stoic beacon
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@wraith comet you may want to delete that link.
This is a public discord, everyone could use it

lone basin
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Hi,
I saw that The Programmer was selling some scripts that requires mods (like plant growing) but they just sell the script, the mod is available for everyone but quite hidden at the bottom of the page with colors that we almost cannot differentiate. I know they have the approval of BIS to sell script but they are avoiding the EULA in a very discutable way (for mein point of view). Is that okey with BIS?

Also, they have task_force_radio.pbo in their hidden mod download page. Don't know if they can @soft egret

soft egret
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no it's not. And no they can't. BI has already been informed

lone basin
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And how long does it takes to usually handle that kind of problem?

soft egret
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ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

lone basin
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Oh, didn't they got reported in mid November and banned of the Discord?

soft egret
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probably yeah

lone basin
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Pretty sure they won't last long anyway ๐Ÿ˜„

brisk ember
stoic beacon
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Ugh, yea. Thanks ๐Ÿ˜…

prisma scaffold
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Question, what does everyone defined as "Server" when regards to Monetization? We currently host from a single machine in Seatte. But we can have multiple instances of several A3 servers at any given time.

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I have only really ran my current server, which is were all my permissions/paperwork is. But part my community is talking about hosting a second one that is cadred more to events then just general public play.

tropic steeple
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I would assume BI defines a server by its "ip:port" because thats what they whitelist servers by for the launcher.

soft egret
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If you are asking whether permission carries over between servers, it depends. I give permission to the whole community, not per server.
But modders might only give permission to a specific server.

dull moon
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Iirc monetitation rules apply to game server instances.

soft egret
brisk ember
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it was at that moment @dry sedge realized, he royally fucked up

narrow topaz
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@cold pasture Mind showing this fool the door?

royal charm
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No, I agree, it's not okay to steal someone elses work and reupload it online.

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๐Ÿ™ƒ

cold pasture
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@dry sedge are you uploading content to Steam Workshop that isn't your own, and for which you do not have the author's permission to do so?

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Because if the answer to that is 'yes', then I'm afraid you cannot expect anything less than to have the upload removed, and - very likely - to find yourself removed from this Discord.

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Are you able to take it down now? Because that would help enormously

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thank you. please don't do it again. your motivation may have been good, but we have a huge, huge issue with bad-faith IP theft in the community (hence a lot of the strong feelings expressed here)

soft egret
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That item caused exactly the thing that I aimed to prevent by forbidding reuploads that are not clearly marked as such. A kinda popular german Arma forum linked to that illegal reupload as the official source for the TFAR beta.
I'm already in 0 tolerance mode, but such a thing goes to -5 tolerance

brisk ember
soft egret
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Yeah already have them and 5 others on my list for weekend

brisk ember
royal charm
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@soft egret If you ask nicely, people are much more likely to comply - Ahhhh, see? That's why people steal from you so much. Cause you're just too mean about it ๐Ÿ˜„ Be nice to the content thieves~

faint nacelle
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@dry sedge are you volunteering to do it (asking nicely) for those who have to do it multiple times a week and get 9/10 times "fuck you" as reply. While it sounds like the proper way to do it, your case is a drop in the ocean and these guys already lose enough time at it is than they should have to

brisk ember
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It's way easier to go past ignorant thieves and DMCA the living fuck out of them.

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You haven't done anything to earn that respect anyway

soft egret
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Sorry dude. Next time when you just steal my stuff without asking I'll ask you very politely to stop it. I'll just file a very polite DMCA and leave it at that.
Also.. "Remove it now" is verbally assaulting now? wow.
And you are complaining that I am demanding to give me my stuff back after you stole it? really?

brisk ember
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Easy Dedmen think of your old heart! ๐Ÿ˜›

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It's stolen because you took a copy from him, packed it and uploaded it without his consent in any step of the way.

soft egret
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you just took stuff as if you owned it. Which you don't.
You gave steam permission to redistribute and monetize stuff on my name, without ANY right to do so.

brisk ember
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If it ain't yours, keep your thieving hands off it. Quite simply I expect?

soft egret
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Plus you broke #rules and the steam subscriber agreement too. And the TFAR license..

lone basin
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@dry sedge
It's like a terrorist taking hostages. No one will send a polite letter to them and ask "hey, could you free the hostages?". Better chance by storming into the building 99% of the time.

brisk ember
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I was being reasonably civil given what you did.

soft egret
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Do you not know how copyright works?
Say someone made a painting on their own and hung it in a museum with a "Don't photograph or copy this" sticker under it.
You took a photograph of that, made potentially millions of copies and gave it away for free for everyone.

That's not considered stealing in your mind? Why would anyone visit that museum now to look at that painting if they can just look at your copy

brisk ember
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You wouldn't download a house.

soft egret
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Well how good that law stands above personal opinion.

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My main problem is that suddenly there are dozens of different TFAR versions around, some not being updated for half a year or longer. And then people come along and think that's the real version and ask me to solve the problems they are having with that.
Some idiot on a Arma forum thought your upload is the official upload and redistributed that link. If I let that stand then half a year later I'll have tons of people still playing with that old broken version and complaining about it.

All that despite you breaking the TFAR license and Steam EULA and Arma Discord/Forum rules by uploading that.

lone basin
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In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/english#6

soft egret
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No there is not a better way. If you had read what happened in just this channel in the last half year, you'd know that.

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The best way is to just DMCA and get such people removed. Because they all love arguing about how they interpret the rules.

hidden scaffold
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i know i dont belong in this conversation, but isnt it that the person who publishes something has the right to ban everyone/specific people from reuploading?

soft egret
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@hidden scaffold yes. Also by default everyone is banned from reuploading. So the publisher doesn't have to ban anyone. He only gives out permission to reupload

hidden scaffold
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true dat

faint nacelle
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@dry sedge related to the above, If publisher had warned you before you can hit "publish" that you must not upload anyone elses work and that you can only upload things you have made yourself or are part of making it and have permission to upload it in behalf of everyone involved, would that have made you reconsider uploading?

carmine folio
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I am going to summarise that response as "Yeah I stole it and I will remove it since I was forced to, but I believe I should be allowed to do what I did PS you should have asked me nicely".

brisk ember
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TL;DR yeah ๐Ÿ˜„

carmine folio
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By your own accounts you should ask them nicely whatever you do!

chilly silo
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If you can prove that you created the code. THen you can DMCA it

lone basin
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If you have suffisent proof, take action against it. (Ask them politely as you said, or DMCA)

carmine folio
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That wouldn't be remotely polite enough, should start with a nice message asking for attribution.

chilly silo
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But YOU must PROVE beyond doubt that it is yours

hidden scaffold
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all you mod creators deserve a ๐Ÿ‘ for having to deal with other people day in and day out

carmine folio
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I don't bother, my mod has been stolen more than its been legally downloaded but chasing all the thousands of people isn't worth the effort. I spend too much time chasing people down for something that is really Steam's problem.

hidden scaffold
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^^ message the person who republishes telling them to add your name to credits or something

carmine folio
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You don't start with a DMCA anyway, you tell them its yours and ask politely for whatever it is you want them to do.

brisk ember
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link to mod?

broken hornet
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you are mentioned in the readme that is packaged with OPTRE

carmine folio
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Given you think they have the right to just reupload it and use your work as they please an attribution is more than reasonable. Why bother doing anything at all?

soft egret
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So much to HALO mods are clean copyright wise..

broken hornet
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Its a complicated situation, I can give you the BI forum link that details the situation. also before my time

soft egret
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yeah I know that it's clear considering halo content. But if they took stuff from other modders..

carmine folio
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Depends very much on the license of the stuff they used really

fossil basalt
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Just DMCA them at the first instance.
If they are a member of this Discord and/or BIF, let me know and they will be banned straight away. Simple.

(Any "niceties" on the part of the mod owner are purely optional and quite often detrimental.)

chilly silo
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Try messaging a dozen or so "re-uploaders" 99.95 of which greet you with a "Fuck you" and lets see what you say. ๐Ÿ˜‰

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I've had to submit upwards of 300 take downs. After the first 50 or so abusives responses I just DMCA now

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So far I've only had one "really sorry i didnt understand"

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the rest have been "why are you picking on me" or "fuck you i can do this" and similar

carmine folio
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By not reading the license or details of the item you uploaded and just clicking through despite the warnings on Steams terms and conditions you have put yourself in the wrong. Stop excusing yourself and feeling you were badly treated, Dedmen could have started with a DMCA and didn't, that is about as nicely as you'll be treated. But if you keep excusing yourself and your actions your reputation is going to be really bad really quickly. I am 50/50 on just blocking you and never seeing a single thing you say again. You are in the wrong you should be apologising and changing your ways rather than complaining how you were told.

fossil basalt
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This would be a good stopping point folks.

carmine folio
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This is a self processed IP thief who has removed something when force, has openly stated multiple times that he believes he can and should be able to do as he pleases with others content and more importantly has not said that will be done again, and to top it all off asking for kind takedown notices when doing unlawful things. I just don't see this characterisation of someone that has changed their ways, he has never said that at all

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Why are we appeasing this thief with no remorse and full intent to do it again. I am confused, I keep looking back at the exchange about the law a page back and trying to square it away with how this individual is now being treated and I have no idea where it is coming from

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Well I'll block him with "unremorseful IP thief of TFAR" in the message, not that I ever unblock anyone. I just don't want to be helping people who actively work against this community.

fossil basalt
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You are absolutely right. He's gone now.

river spear
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My bad, I missed his subjective stance on IP laws, thought he's geniuenly a guy that is 100% sorry for what he did ๐Ÿ™ƒ (thats what you got for only reading bits of the conversation on your phone)

cold pasture
#

did SpaceNavy return to argue the point?

lone basin
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kind of

cold pasture
#

oh dear. well, some people cannot be helped.

marsh kindle
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@soft egret OPTRE devs make everything by hand. None of it is ripped. Everything from HP > LP > Textures > Configs are all done internally. Any model that is donated is checked for any signs of ripping. If we get a bad feeling we chuck the model.

faint nacelle
#

Way back the dude who got booted just now was part of the previous Halo mod. @marsh kindle

marsh kindle
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I know I was in the team back then ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

faint nacelle
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I recall there was drama

marsh kindle
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Lol yep

wraith comet
minor herald
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(Models and game Rainbow Six: Siege by Ubisoft)

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Would appear so

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Could be mistaken though

proper charm
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Looks like it's ripped from R6S

grand gale
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They are ripped straight from siege first one is tachankas helmet, second is Blitz, third is rook and fourth is Fuze

soft egret
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"looks like it's ripped" "would appear so" "could be mistaken" really guys? Read the description of the item
(Models and game Rainbow Six: Siege by Ubisoft)

blazing wyvern
#

they really think that arma is garrys mod by default xD

soft egret
sweet minnow
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@soft egret thx

soft egret
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That guy is a friggin IFA3 dev. How can he not know anything about copyright

echo orchid
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@soft egret who?

soft egret
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the workshop and bi forum link from my last message

brisk ember
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probably one of those people who made a script line and demanded to be listed as a dev ๐Ÿ˜›

echo orchid
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lol

lone basin
#

Someone sent me a message and said to look at that server because it was very cool. The server is so cool that there is TFAR in there ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ (and others mods but I'm only sure for that one when it comes to takedowns).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1595988119
And seems to have been reported back in December but still up with TFAR. IIRC that's not their first DMCA xD (Also, the guy said || We don't give a f*ck, thanks || in french, even if at this point. that doesn't looks like french anymore).

soft egret
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Yeah I know them. DMCA'ed them atleast twice

lone basin
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Too bad that Steam doesn't supsend these accounts, pretty sure that there will be less reuploads like that.

royal charm
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Well, once Article 13 gets passed in the EU, Steam's going to have to completely reorganize how they manage copyright infringements..

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That, or, they can just revoke access to the Steam workshop in the EU

rancid wraith
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i honestly open article 13 doesnt pass

lone basin
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Fell like that article will not be coming anytime soon, the EU system can't work for such things, but if it passes, it will be pretty interesting.

south pelican
flint topaz
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Quick Question. So started my hand at modeling and for ease sake is it allowed to use vanilla items? For instance stretchers and stuff like that?

soft egret
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define "use"

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include them as proxy? Sure. You can do that with any model of any mod. You don't break a license by spawning a object next to yours.

flint topaz
wraith comet
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I don't understand if they wanna use it in their unit why they set it to public ??? They should know they got spotted for reuploads .

royal charm
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I assume it's because private requires every unit member is a friend on steam.

brisk ember
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I'll leave this car's doors open with the keys in the ignition but put up a board that says "Private Use only"

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Either ignorant or incredibly naive

flint topaz
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Question, Was the original mod not in trouble for stolen content? Can not remember....

fossil basalt
#

If its the MH-60, its most likely the one was sold to BIS.

fossil basalt
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Oh, also, lets try to keep the profanity to an absolute minimum. Thanks

soft egret
echo orchid
#

fucking well done for going another year with the same shitty excuse of a monetization
The permission is given for a limited time. It will expire on January 31st 2020.

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๐Ÿพ

soft egret
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And the first server that BI approved after 31st January 2019... Has just been reported for monetizing mods without permission ๐Ÿ‘

brisk ember
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@south pelican ^

fossil basalt
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And if the mods are legit this time (and not from VSM), change the name or it will be consistently reported/removed.

snow bloom
wraith comet
echo orchid
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@snow bloom seems so, yes

stoic beacon
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Thanks

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Property of Fernando Gomez

wraith comet
soft egret
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Not in crawler yet :u

river spear
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Running the scan now

soft egret
#

ALRP, OLRPG, Sahrani, A3L, OL
A life modpack with stolen content, built by stealing other life modpacks with stolen content ๐Ÿ‘

wraith comet
soft egret
#

That group of the last workshop item. Is using his illegal reuploads in their pack

wraith comet
#

Contains also
kka3_TFAR_Animations.pbo

soft egret
hexed marsh
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@soft egret thanks

soft egret
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@lilac fossil sure you are. If you made a mod you can release it under any license you want

lilac fossil
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Ok thanks

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Just read through the arma ones and ill just use them

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If a server were to take my pbo and remove the APL-ND license from it but they aren't monetized what options would I have?

soft egret
#

noone can just remove a license from a mod

lilac fossil
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I keep a copy of it in the pbo

soft egret
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they can remove the text file. But that doesn't change the license that content is licensed as

lilac fossil
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Ok

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If they removed it would that be against the license? because its the nd one

soft egret
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You can send them a DMCA if they violate the license. Yeah, modifying your pbo would be derivative and that would violate the license

lilac fossil
#

Ok thanks so much!

wraith comet
chilly silo
chilly silo
brisk ember
#

Fuller, but I think he's only on the BIF

carmine folio
balmy lodge
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Last I checked they were monetized aswell

carmine folio
#

Afaik they're still waiting for approval but taking donations regardless

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yes i saw them on the list

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donations do not require monetization approval, selling cosmetics etc does

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Regardless, they're using my content, I've got no idea how they got ahold of it, but they didn't get it from me.

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What mod is it?

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eric_objects.pbo

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It might be as simple as messaging whoever owns life-studios these days and asking to remove

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That is the easiest for you to get your content of their server

soft egret
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they have approval. BI didn't check their mods.

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You're not the first one to report them btw.

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I even reported them prematurely before they got approved. Just to make sure that BI doesn't slip... And they gloriously didn't check anything. And they were the first approved server after BI extended the monetization thing for another year.. GG bohemia

dull moon
#

And if repacked/uploaded your mod, strike them with a DMCA

fossil basalt
#

email to infringements@bistudio.com , Arma 3 EULA : https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license

soft egret
#

BI already got multiple reports. To the correct contact (which infringement@ btw is not) before and after the got approved.

fossil basalt
#

It works for paper trail (audit) purposes. Also, I have brought it up again in the internal monetisation channel.

wraith comet
heady stump
#

doesn't seem like anything else on that guy workshop is legit either]

minor herald
#

@carmine folio If they don't respond or won't stop using your mods, you could target their provider, NFOservers and also their google drive link. Not sure how successful that'll be, but worth a shot. Maybe someone here who has had experience with notifying providers can speak on the success of it

fossil basalt
#

That works as well.

torn fiber
#

Heyo, I've got more of a preventative question: I needed to change BIS_fnc_findSafePos for a little project of mine (changed isFlatEmpty to nearestObjects, also needed to copy paste the parameter check include file content) and want to push it on to github. Are derivatives of in-game scripts covered by APL, and if so, how do I have to attribute it?

soft egret
#

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1633258279 TFAR
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1632593129 ACE, 3denEnhanced, ACEX, Firewill weapon system, HLC, F/A-18 Super Hornet by @lofty steeple, kka3_TFAR_Animations, ShackTac UI, @Qinetix Titus, UK3CB Vehicles, diwako's unknown weapon punish thing, rksl attachments, diwako ace ragdolling,
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1633259663 Reupload of COS (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=846603147) Literally 1to1 straight reupload.. wtf?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1633275107 Deja'vu.. ACE, ACEX, kka3 tfar animations,

carmine folio
#

@torn fiber If you want your work covered by the APL then add a LICENSE file containing the details of the APL to the repository alongside your code and then that license is going to apply. You will also want to stick some lines at the top of the readme to say it can't be reuploaded to Steam and that it can't be used on monetised servers, just so the lazy don't make accidents. That is all I think you need to do.

soft egret
dull moon
#

If you create a derivate i think you can distribute it. See modified vanilla game modes

#

That's basically the same

#

But a function in this case must have another prefix than BIS_fnc

#

To clarify it is a 3rd party release and not official

soft egret
#

And life-studios just got reported again... 10 violations.

dull moon
#

At BI for illegal monetisation?

soft egret
#

yeah

dull moon
#

Where they approved previously? I mean, did they get the approval back every time?

soft egret
#

this is the first time they got approved

torn fiber
#

@carmine folio Alrighty, thanks for the heads-up on how to add it.
@dull moon Ok, I guess there is a precedent for this. Thanks for pointing that out

#

@dedmen I think the "program" part actually refers to the work that's being licensed under APL, not the ArmA 3 code. I would imagine arma itself isn't licensed under APL, but some more propriety license (hence my concern)

soft egret
#

I linked you the Arma 3 EULA

#

that applies to Arma and everything that belongs to it

torn fiber
#

oh whoops, my bad. So yeah, no way around getting permission

soft egret
#

I don't know if BI maybe has something special on scripts to allow it. But I can't find a official statement like that anywhere

fossil basalt
#

And if you cannot find a statement that gives said permission, I would not attempt it.

soft egret
#

If that function is small you could just rewrite it. And at the same time make it better. Most BI scripts have lots of room for improvement ^^

torn fiber
#

That's a good idea, I'll give that a shot

brisk ember
#

old mod but still reuploads

royal charm
#

Mod uploaded by Nightstalker

#

Mod reported by Nightstalk3r

#

๐Ÿค” wut

soft egret
#

diwako or kola. who's gonna take it

brisk ember
#

Sadly I don't report my own mods @royal charm ๐Ÿ˜›

royal charm
#

๐Ÿ˜„

stoic beacon
#

Take what?
All these items you've mentioned above?
Looks like a dmca session this weekend๐Ÿ˜

#

Reuploads Found
108

#

Looks like a long session....

wheat wave
soft egret
#

No links without description please. If you are linking something then please say what that is. That has already been linked twice.

wheat wave
#

ok

brisk ember
#

I'm not saying terminate all reuploading people, but why don't we put them into a room as the hostage and let Fuze do his job?

jade karma
#

welp.. that ripped content from Rainbow Six: Siege is at the frontpage of workshop now :P

trail mountain
#

Nah, just put all the people who do this in the airport from No Russian

jade karma
#

oof.. can still feel the controversy even a decade ago

brisk ember
#

when I played it there wasn't even the option to skip that mission

#

not that I wanted to

wraith comet
chilly silo
#

WE DONT OWN THIS MODS
ALL CREDIT GOES TO ITS CREATORS

  1. 75th Ranger Regiment - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1171952244
  2. Task Force Black Uniforms(Project Zenith Retextures) - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1373280583
  3. ACE Extension - Attachment Switching - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374639840
  4. Military Gear Pack - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736829758
  5. RangerBerets - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=932850916
  6. After East Wind - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=804765419
  7. VSM All-In-One Collection - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=823636749
  8. Goko ballistic Impact - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1273833677
  9. Advanced Weapom Mounting - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1378046829
  10. Radio Animations for Task Force Radio - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1480333388
#
  1. Kurt's Survival System (KSS) - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=828121231
  2. BackpackOnChest - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820924072
  3. CUP ACE3 Compatibility Addon - Vehicles - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=621650475
  4. CUP ACE3 Compatibility Addon - Weapons - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=549676314
  5. ACE 3 Extension (Animations and Actions) - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=766491311
  6. Enhanced Movement - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=333310405
  7. Multi-play Uniforms - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=779520435
  8. Vcom AI V3.1 - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=721359761
    19.Backpack on chest - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820924072
    20.NiArms All in One -https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1208517358
#

21.FA-18 Super Hornet -https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=743099837
22. CH View Distance - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=837729515
23. ACE3 RHS Missile Guidance ะกompatibility - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1185836585
24. USS Nimitz - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=643530417
25. RKSL Studios: Airfield Support Tug - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1644515857&searchtext=
26. Lesh's Towing Mod - https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1413218487

wheat wave
#

imagine making a reupload of a mod that weights like 10kb

midnight crystal
#

ADVANCED RAPPELING, ADVANCED URBAN RAPPELING, ADVANCED TOWING, ADVANCED SLING LOAD, ADVANCED WEAPON MOUNTING, BREACHING CHARGE ,SPLENDID SMOKE, IMMERSION CIGS, SUPPRESS, GRAD TRENCHES, TACTICAL POSITION READY

lethal tartan
#

Would like some information regarding the status of "the mod that shall not be named" here. I've tried a text search for my answer - but its unclear. Does someone with familiarity of this channel mind if I DM them my question?

wraith comet
#

there few mods which "shall not be named" here

echo orchid
#

status? what do you mean by that?

midnight crystal
#

VME PLA?

lethal tartan
#

Disregard. I believe I found my answer.

fossil basalt
#

All mods may be named, we will just tell you whether they are permitted or not.

soft egret
fervent needle
#

Its interesting seeing the twitch emote events unfold right now, feels like this channel and arma all over again lol

wraith comet
brisk ember
#

Sounds like a virus instead to be honest

wraith comet
#

ive posted below that it contains one

brisk ember
#

Why would someone announce a free p3d debinarizer on the arma discussion ๐Ÿ˜‚

wraith comet
#

because idiot ?

#

@near portal

wraith comet
#

Thread wis now removed

carmine folio
#

I had been under the impression that ACE stuff generally could get repacked due to the fact you canโ€™t really use it with a repacked ACE otherwise which repacking ACE is specifically authorized last I checked so apologies for assuming such license applies across submods. The only other stuff I can think of would be MBG Killhouses and Hueys. Killhouses, Hueys, ACE Submods, and anything else I can think of / find will get dropped to additional mods / modpack. Thank you for the heads up!

fossil basalt
#

@carmine folio Bear in mind that Steam explicitly forbids (re)uploads if you are not the original creator or an added creator (by the original creators). Whereas the likes of ACE allow modification, reuploading them to the Steam Workshop is still prohibited.

#

As a follow on note, those who ignore these warnings are typically banned.

soft egret
#

ACE team tolerates reuploads. Steam Subscriber Agreement still forbids them though. But you have tons of other stuff in there that are explicitly forbidden to be reuploaded.

carmine folio
#

I might be slow but I'm honestly finding it hard to wrap my head around somewhat, so even if I explicitly go and ask a mod author and he says yes I can- its still illegal?

fossil basalt
#

Correct

#

Because Steam is a private platform with its own requirements.

carmine folio
#

Oof, understood

fossil basalt
#

More importantly, as Dedmen mentioned " you have tons of other stuff in there that are explicitly forbidden to be reuploaded"

carmine folio
#

I'm in the process of looking through it atm, part of the problem with design by committee when members have come and gone

#

Out of curiosity do you know if Steam saying "you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors)"

You said modifications weren't considered original, would retextures be considered modifications or original?

soft egret
#

if you do a modification you are a "contributor" to your version of the mod. Meaning at that point you are fine with reuploading if you have permission.
retextures depends. If you made it from scratch then original, if you painted over a original texture and like. reuse it as background then it's a derivative

carmine folio
#

Again- apologies if I'm slow with the whole legal thing, so for say the beret retextures I made, they're a dark navy blue color with a security forces patch on them with versions including the enlisted falcon over crossed runways and officer version for O1-O6, would that be considered original despite the fact I used the base beret texture or would it be considered a derivative?

#

Or does it even matter at that point since it is a contributor to that version of the mod?

soft egret
#

If the original texture is still behind yours, then it's a derivative/modification.
Means you are a contributor, but need permission by the rights owner of the original texture that's still in the background of yours.

If you only used the original as template to know where things are, and there is nothing left of the original. Then IMO it's a original work.

carmine folio
#

Okay- also I'm guessing there's no legal version of cTab on Steam Workshop since they all have messages like "This is not my own work, it belongs to Riouken from armaholic and I in no way made this. I simply needed it mirrored to the workshop. If the original author wants to publish this himself I'll happily take this down an we can all use his workshop. "?

soft egret
#

yep.

#

You can use it till a moderator goes over it someday and marks it as incompatible or removes it

dull moon
#

i love memes, can be used for education also ๐Ÿ˜„

#

if you upload smth to the steam workshop, you claim to be the author of said content (steam eula).
since you're not, it is an IP right violation

#

a disclaimer has no meaning

#

those are the rules made by valve

#

since valve is a private company with their own rule set, they sort of "overwrite" this

#

no upload unless you're the author

brisk ember
#

ACE3 the only thing he reuploaded?

#

Because if you've uploaded more @open schooner you're looking at DMCA takedown requests from the authors (No, they don't have to contact you first. They see their content stolen? They can DMCA without notice.)

#

oh, and gets you banned here and on the BIF

tropic steeple
brisk ember
#

Pretty sure that's an MH47E mod that is not allowed to be reuploaded (stolen content)

wraith comet
brisk ember
#

Looks like we can slap the #dirtythief tag on him then

#

@dull moon CUP ^

dull moon
#

whot?

wraith comet
merry kestrel
#

and he is gone

#

and considering that his posts are still here, that means he left himself, rather than get banned

fossil basalt
#

(no guarantee that the OP is the same Discord user) if it is confirmed, ban.

#

Bans issued.

#

Wheaton's Law (Google it)

sinful osprey
#

Is there anyway to check if your mods have been uploaded to the steam workshop , on the workshop crawler without having the original mod uploaded / checked against

south pelican
#

I talked to the guy who made the crawler about the same thing and we couldn't find a way to do it, but that was a while ago, may have changed since.

soft egret
#

@wraith comet nothing wrong with comat mods. But sadly there is a comple reupload of @fallow stag's JSRS in there -.-
For reference: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1654448976

Technically the crawler could do a text search. Searching for pbo names or hash values. So if you have the hash value you could look up where that pbo appears. That is currently not available in the webinterface though. But it doesn't seem that hard to do.
Ofc OPTiX time is limited I assume ^^

carmine folio
#

I actually had a an argument with someone in school about 2 years ago about that image, is it someone getting handed something that they made from someone who did not know they made it and then who claimed ownership, or is it someone getting handed something and then deciding to claim he made it

soft egret
#

I don't quite understand what you mean.

wraith comet
brisk ember
#

@soft egret he means there are two cases to consider

1.) Person A hands Person B his "work", but doesn't mention that Person A made it. Person B thinks "Cool, I can make something of this" and claims ownership.

2.) Person A hands Person B his work and lets B know that Person A has made it. Person B claims ownership regardless of this information.

soft egret
#

I don't know what context though

brisk ember
#

he was just talking about the picture

soft egret
#

That was quick

brisk ember
#

Quickest upload deleter in the Wild West

wraith comet
#

catgun Pew pew or he set it to friends only

tulip nexus
wraith comet
soft egret
#

Not UO stuff is not in crawler yet. But UO had very good reputation in the past.. Is that the same UO? Or just a guy with same name?
@loud jackal

dull moon
#

I don't think that's the UO we know

#

They are huge and the items have around 12 subs...

soft egret
#

It links to the real UO website. And some uploads are coauthored by Impulse. So it seems to be the real UO..

#

@wraith comet I'll get that down, no worries

wraith comet
#

ty dsboom

soft egret
astral marlin
#

done

soft egret
#

10 minutes. 3 out of 3 items DMCA'ed. Man that guy is trying to set records

carmine folio
#

We should be good on mods now if Iโ€™m not mistaken, apologies about that!

carmine folio
#

@soft egret did you DMCA UO over the sullen skies?

#

Or the other sections?

faint nacelle
#

Dedmen can only DCMA for TFAR

#

or anything else hes made

carmine folio
#

Wasn't sure

#

Given how sullen skies is based on blastcore skies, and UO skies is based on sullen skies

#

That would be a level of "who owns the rights to an idea" that would give anyone a headache

loud jackal
#

Just getting caught up with this now. For how things were built in the past we worked off static versions and releases under APL-SA, CC BY-NC-ND 4.0, and direct author permission where able, if the author was not absent in the past. Derivative works of of abandon projects had been used or cited by way of individual contributions. For the most part, all of these were sought with permission, or under the Distribution clauses listed above. With regards to the files included, by at large they were all under static versions where the license permitted redistribution by way of Armholic or BIF releases in zip/7z and other non updating release methods. I have just seen and been responding to one DMCA from someone that re-released the same content with a new license, and have respected their wishes and separated the content.

#

For the files in the test pack, yeah, those are worth killing, as they were used in a trial base on non production servers to see if the content was worth exploring. I can not say much for Blastcore/SullenSkies as the source files were from a significantly older timeframe and adapted forward. If the project was forked and a new license now exists, so be it. It will be addressed. I belive a community member was using the method presented in the sky/weather modules to write up global sky replacements per map on the method used in the source work, I can not say how that would apply to the derivatives or forks.

#

As for modification to addons - generally I can only say that was done in the past. Those files were locked on static versions, but the "newer" method is to work with class overrides to prevent errors or hotfix other content to not impact an author's work. From the adapation of PWS/Addonsync and so forth we have largely worked off of static releases, so that individual mod releases by authors would not impact gameplay in untested releases for the larger community. Thus it may be an older mindset of static modpack/static release, address content issues on a per addon basis to not cause errors for the user base. Given the ongoing development of the community and changing content distribution methods, this approach to having a static and tested mod release method is now conflicting with the evolving understanding and application of IP rights.

#

For those of you directly impacted, please feel free to reach out to me directly so that I can get these issues fixed on an as needed basis, in the most expedient method possible.

wraith comet
last gorge
#

@soft egret Rosche is APL-SA, That means it can be rehosted anywhere on the internet including the steam workshop. I have released the source files so anyone can modify it to any way they want to enjoy it. I want people to enjoy the content I release in any way they want including not being held hostage to updates that break their missions or servers, possibly in the middle of play sessions.

#

Unless someone claims the work as 100% theirs or they are trying to sell it. Why go after people who want to just have a stable mod pack for their community/clan/group???

brisk ember
#

Actually that doesn't include the steam workshop. It has its own terms and conditions which state that one is not allowed to upload content it cannot legally provide a license to (for Valve)

last gorge
#

might as well delete 98% of the workshop

#

I doubt most people own the source of the textures that are used in most addons.

runic gulch
#

Are people allowed to sign other peoples mods?

carmine folio
#

@runic gulch no one here works for GM, find the game they are stolen from and contact their Legal department

last gorge
#

You wanna make an M1 Abrams, oh wait you don't own the IP rights to the Abrams produced by General Dynamics Land Systems? Cant upload it.

runic gulch
#

woah

#

no i was looking for other car mods and i stumbled across this

#

breath

carmine folio
#

I mean that in a helpful manner not an attack

#

No one here can do anything about that mod

#

Well perhaps BI legal team but unlikely

runic gulch
#

Was it the searchtext that set that off

#

or

carmine folio
#

It has to be whomever owns said content, which is either GM or the game that produced it (probably forza)

runic gulch
#

Its not just the ford

carmine folio
#

Well you can attempt to contact the other company but perhaps may find the legal grounds more difficult to cross

loud jackal
#

Signatures are generally a security method used by servers for key checking. Modifying a signature would generally be pretty pointless unless you are trying to bypass normal security or use altered files.
Creating Secondary signatures in the past was used by server operators to lock versions or prevent authors from using other mods generated with the Author's key from being able to gain access to un-approved content on other servers.

The Signature ownership is a odd one to consider - if you claim that generating new signature files for server operators is going to be impacting the rights of the original authors, then it is going to put server operators in a hard spot of allowing any content from authors that they do not directly trust implicitly.

runic gulch
#

Ok thanks

#

thats what I wanted

dull moon
#

@last gorge
You wanna make an M1 Abrams, oh wait you don't own the IP rights to the Abrams produced by General Dynamics Land Systems? Cant upload it.
i think you are referring to the hummve dilemma that went on in the game development about a year ago?

well, that's partly true.
if one wants a GE M1A1 Abrams tank in his game, he needs to buy the rights to it, also must have a 1:1 model
but an alternative (what BI does for example), rebrand the model and make minor ajustments. (don't call it Colt M4, just M4 Rifle and change some minor details)

echo orchid
#

@last gorge say what?

last gorge
#

@brisk ember APL-SA is a license. Looks like you can use that as a ticket to upload with.

echo orchid
#

no offense man, but you can stick whatever license onto the stuff you make, just like other people can stick their own license to their own stuff

#

this you don't own the copyright for M1A1 rethoric is getting old

#

so is the Why go after people who want to just have a stable mod pack for their community/clan/group???
because Steam Workshop license does NOT allow it

last gorge
#

how so

minor herald
#

Read the license

dull moon
#

Lancer
it's all fine that you endorse ppl to use your stuff, even that you release source files. i also like that you want people to host it so they can have a stable modpack.
but reups on the WS violate the steam eula

#

it's section 6d

last gorge
#

how is APL-SA not an agreement to let somone use that content for reupload?

#

in use as a contract

#

thats your licence to steam that you have the right to upload it

narrow topaz
#

Steam ignores APL-SA, basically

dull moon
#

to cut it short:
as an uploader of content you grant steam certain rights that only the IP holder can grant

#

this means (technically) the uploader claims full IP and copyright by uploading

carmine folio
#

For a reupload you have to upload content previously uploaded and rights granted to Steam

narrow topaz
#

You can't reupload something just because it's already on Steam.

carmine folio
#

Well that seems to be the ultimate question here

narrow topaz
#

You have to own it, or be a contributor and have permission of all other contributors

carmine folio
#

Whether users can reupload files

last gorge
#

wtf?

#

APL-SA

narrow topaz
#

Steam doesn't care about APL-SA

#

it's irrelevant

last gorge
#

wtf?

#

so you need the rights from the IP holder unless they have given the rights to everyone and then...??? fuck you???

narrow topaz
#

Steam (in essence) says "If you upload this, it means you own it and allow me to do whatever I want with it (derivatives etc, etc)" as part of their EULA

carmine folio
#

Right and if a user says "i'm ok with people reuploading this"

#

Does that not allow others to reupload?

narrow topaz
#

Doesn't matter. 6D

broken veldt
#

"share alike" - unless you mean effectively, in which case its up to steam workshop rules and at the whim of whoever wants to submit a DMCA report for whatever reason at whatever time, as a method of protecting Steam in any future legal conundrum. That's just great isn't it. Really makes the modding community swell with activity.

last gorge
#

6d asks if you have a licence. APL-SA is a fucking licence

narrow topaz
# 
 In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).
last gorge
#

you cant just say that it is not one

brisk ember
#

It is a license but not the uploader's license. It's your license

last gorge
#

APL-SA is that right to submit to the workshop

brisk ember
#

I can't give out a license on your work

#

To valve

#

Legally, that is

carmine folio
#

The question is whether a creator of content

#

Can have a license that allows free reupload

#

Via APL-SA

#

Now before we all lose our minds

broken veldt
#

No

brisk ember
#

And steam says cool license but we have additional requirements

carmine folio
#

Why don't we let the BI legal team clarify?

narrow topaz
#

The requirement isn't that you have permission from the owner. It's that you are a member of a group who made the mod, and you have permission from all other owners.

carmine folio
#

As they wrote up APL-SA?

narrow topaz
#

Again, Steam's EULA doesn't care what license a work has applied to it

#

It clearly says you must meet one of two criteria to upload to the workshop

carmine folio
#

@narrow topaz Again, best to clarify with BI legal team when they can

#

As they were the ones who wrote APL-SA and so they will know best

brisk ember
#

You can get clarification from any license they have written up, it doesn't change anything about Steam's requirement to upload content

narrow topaz
broken veldt
#

It wont matter what BI wrote, it is Valve's agreement you are agreeing to when you upload

narrow topaz
#

tl;dr: Even if an owner chooses not to pursue a DMCA against the workshop, the person who re-uploads is in violation of the Steam EULA

#

Whether that re-upload ever has action taken against it is up to the original IP owner

brisk ember
#

Well and BI

#

They can also take down a mod

#

For example when the original author isn't around anymore to issue a DMCA

carmine folio
#

@narrow topaz legal team not a moderator but it's seems to be reasonable ground to base it off

echo orchid
#

@carmine folio i had this convo with BI legal, and i asked my lawyer as well

Subject to the terms and conditions of this Public License, the Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the Licensed Material to:
reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part, for NonCommercial and ArmaOnly purposes only; and
produce, reproduce, and Share Adapted Material for NonCommercial and ArmaOnly purposes only.```
Steam does NOT abide to an APL-SA license
#

they want shared IP rights

carmine folio
#

Thanks for the info Pufu

echo orchid
#

that's from APL_SA

#

which clearly states that you are allowed to produce, reproduce etc etc for ArmA and non-commercial

#

and Valve clearly states

#

that they want shared IP for promotional stuff

#

never does it say that is non-commercial behavior mind you

#

so the rule of thumb still stands - you do not own it, you cannot upload it to SW

#

the only way to be able to upload someone's elses files to SW is to have it open source

loud jackal
#

@echo orchid For a slight clarification in my regard, there are some items where the original author is not present or has never created a steam workshop source file. What would the best way be to address those types of addons? (I am looking for a hint, not an answer, I am not looking for any sort of binding solution or expectation implied.)

#

Would it be "reasonable" to have the file as part of a collection until the author returns and creates their own distribution? I have issue with uploading someone else's content and passing it off in a standalone manner w/o permissions as obviously it is not my creation.

echo orchid
#

no

spare osprey
#

(or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors)

Not that I like mod packs but

You would be considered the original owner of the of your pack . Contributors would be the mods that you have in the packs and if licensed under APL-SA you have rights to upload .

echo orchid
#

if there is no license attached to an addon

#

the worst version possible is assumed

loud jackal
#

Clarification - when an item is singular advertised as ZOMG_SuperArmyMans.pbo and the individual author is missing or gone, a signle person rehosting that as themselves, seems very suspect and bad.

But if it is part of a collection of pbo files, it seems to be at least anecdotally less offensive?

echo orchid
#

no matter, legally speaking the author needs to share his IP rights with you

#

the so called permission has no legal grounds btw

spare osprey
#

How does an author share IP rights ?

mild viper
loud jackal
#

So flat out, your implying that anything made by bushlurker needs to be scrubbed from the workshop unless we contact his wife?

#

Bad example...

broken veldt
#

Yeah, who inherits mods? Firstborn?

spare osprey
#

Honestly Iโ€™m just trying to get a better understanding. Maybe there is a better licenses than APL-SA for creators that donโ€™t care if someone reuoloads their stuff .

broken veldt
#

The APL-SA doesn't matter apparently, apparently none of the licenses matter except for the EULA that you accept by uploading to the workshop

loud jackal
#

Is CUP even allowed to be uploaded under this current intpretataion? As that is a derivative of A2 made by BIS released under APL ? I am really not trying to be trollish with this. It opens a genuine concern.

#

This also would affect a number of other mods that were built off of APL and sub variations. At the end of the day this is all Steam, so we hand off a lot of responsibility onto how they will handle things, and how we govern ourselves in the best manner as a community.

echo orchid
#

@loud jackal dude, really? you can use any other method of distribution

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besides Steam Workshop or any other that requires to share your IP rights with the hosting platform

loud jackal
#

I just want to make the best effort to be in the right as best I can all things considered. But for ease of use and target audience steam is very easy for users to understand and handle.

echo orchid
#

CUP has a custom license with BI last i checked

#

and i have already answer that

#

avoid using Steam Workshop

#

unless you actually made that content yourself

loud jackal
#

@echo orchid I am all for doing the work to fix my modpack, do not confuse that in any way. At the end of the day, if someone has their content on steam, and I can source it, all the better. The authors need the exposure for their works included, created and developed.

echo orchid
#

we had this sort of discussion with people that were uploading RHS on SW, before we did it ourselves

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it wasn't because we wanted to be special or anything

#

but we had to get signed shit

spare osprey
#

How does any port do that legally with respect to IP rights with the steam workshop?

loud jackal
#

No, and not considered that way. I was asking towards yourself since I would rather ask you than some random w/o a vested interest and or a once over reading of it in part.

echo orchid
#

from all authors who's content was at that time present in RHS, so that we could legally share IP as a collective group with steam

#

@spare osprey can you rephrase

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and what do you mean by "port"

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content from A1/A2 etc IP owned by BI?

#

it is as grey of an area as i said before

spare osprey
#

You have to own the IP rights to upload to the steam workshop , how to the 100s of A1 /A2 ports legally upload to the SW .

echo orchid
#

define legally?

broken veldt
#

lol

echo orchid
#

in this context anyways

mild viper
echo orchid
#

oh my god...

#

we just had this discussion

spare osprey
#

Lol

broken veldt
#

You see licenses don't matter, what actually matters is a loose undefined sense of ownership based on who knows what, and cannot be remotely applied accurately to hundreds of mods that were ported from previous games and exist on the workshop

#

its so simple why dont you guys get it?

echo orchid
#

pizzaboy

#

i am trying to have decent conversation

broken veldt
#

I apologize, I find this conversation funny without any real moderation or clear information.

echo orchid
#

if you wanna be sarcastic about it, go ahead, but don't expect

#

any real answers

spare osprey
#

Ports are a grey area is that a correct assumption .

echo orchid
#

yeah to some degree

spare osprey
#

Meaning they violate 6D but are generally accepted by the community as ok .

loud jackal
#

Are they not handed out by the same licence?

echo orchid
#

because in practice BI doesn't care that much unless their content is ripped and sold

#

there are 2 parts here:
a. the legality of it - Steam doesn't give a shit. You act like you made it yourself, unless the owner DMCA you - this happens more often than you think, otherwise i wouldn't have over 1000 DMCA filled so far

#

b. enforcing a license of sort

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to give you an example here

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all CC ND NC based licenses

#

means there are no derivatives allowed

#

that means, no soundmods, not retextures etc

#

no one enforces that clause in this particular case, but the license still applies

broken veldt
#

Could you give an example of a ND/NC mod license being enforced? Outside of the steam workshop?

spare osprey
#

Couldnโ€™t we apply the same logic to anything licensed under APL-SA ? It would clear up some of the confusion . In regards to the SW

echo orchid
#

@broken veldt - can you rephrase that please?

#

@spare osprey - we could, but as always, it depends on the author

broken veldt
#

Has the ND/NC clause of a mod license been enforced outside of the steam workshop towards someone violating that clause?

echo orchid
#

@broken veldt yes, i personally have, when some asshole took advantage of a situation

broken veldt
#

Could you reference me this instance please?

echo orchid
#

ie - he was selling re-textures made for RHS content

#

and in general terms re-textures are "tolerated" (that is the proper term, because saying they are ok/legal would be against our own EULA)

#

so in short, from a legal pov, if lancer here is ok with his content, under whatever license, be it APLSA or anything else

#

to have his content upload on Steam, he can do just that

#

from a legal pov, the one that is uploading is breaking Valve's TOS (terms of service)

#

and Valve won't take any measure by itself, unless someone notifies its moderation team - that someone can be BI legal, BI moderation or the author

#

i hope that makes more sense

#

and no, i am not talking out of my ass, i have consulted my own IP lawyer on a number of occasions with regards to Steam Workshop, BI's licenses etc

broken veldt
#

Regarding the instance of the APL license clauses being enforced outside of steam, can you refer me to that? was it a C&D, full docket case, etc?

echo orchid
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RHS is not released under APL license

last gorge
#

what?

echo orchid
#

?

last gorge
#

did rhs get special licence?

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for BI content

echo orchid
#

read it

broken veldt
#

"Please note that the above mentioned agreement gives the right to Red Hammer Studios to waiver any of the conditions at our own discretion."

#

okay, can you give me any instance in which this EULA or your creative commons license was enforced outside of steam?

echo orchid
#

yeah, i have send several (5 or 6) C&D letters (by snail mail, as well as e-mail)

#

to the person that registered a specific domain, to his host etc

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all were related to monetization

broken veldt
#

Thank you. So none were sent off of a ND basis?

spare osprey
#

Just for clarification in regards to steam, All A2\A3 ports, retexture, sounds not made by the user . Violate 6D .

Any thing Iโ€™m missing ?

loud jackal
#

OFP I guess

echo orchid
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no, all content that is not open source

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and has an author

#

that did not relinquished through a license his IP rights over said content

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violates 6D

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@broken veldt nope, again, the single issue i had that was both covering ND and NC (monetization) clauses

#

was dealt with separatly

last gorge
#

So if someone reuploads on steam the RHS A2port PBOs(good luck using them without configs) then RHS can not DMCA it?

echo orchid
#

in short, a bloke did some terible retextures, and because he considered that content to be his own, that particular content was being sold on some life server that was using RHS content

broken veldt
#

were the actual textures being sold or were the right to own a vehicle/use that vehicle on his server sold?

echo orchid
#

@last gorge indeed

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@broken veldt special "skins" were being sold

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just like with any free to play games these days

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IRC you would also get some special special skin

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if you would pay a monthly subscription

broken veldt
#

if you don't mind, could you show me the summary portion of your C&D for that skin usage? I have never seen a derivative work of a derivative work be given a C&D

mild viper
#

@echo orchid So do you encourage and/or endorse reporting of 6.D violations even for APL/APL-SA mods

echo orchid
#

@broken veldt that wasn't dealt via a C&D though

broken veldt
#

okay, how was it enforced?

echo orchid
#

had his server shut down

broken veldt
#

via BI?

echo orchid
#

by talking directly with his host

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or provider to be more precise

broken veldt
#

so just a conversation, not a C&D nor a docket inform or a case

#

I see

echo orchid
#

they had a contact form, we exchanges a couple of e-mails

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in any case, C&D would have been on the NC clause not on the ND clause

broken veldt
#

right...

echo orchid
#

again, all the sent C&D were in relation to comercialization of a product

heady root
#

Maybe I am an idiot, but why do people even put APL-SA licenses on items that go onto the steam workshop if steam overrides it? Is it just to apply to non-steam workshop distribution?

echo orchid
#

not making derivatives that were being sold, considering the license is clear about RHS content will not be use on monetized servers

spare osprey
#

Are there any arma licenses for the author to relinquished their IP rights ? Or do you know of any ? MIT ?

echo orchid
#

no matter if RHS content is part of the monetary exchange or not

#

@spare osprey the only ARMA licenses are the ones made by BI

#

as in APL and APLSA

broken veldt
#

And you means of enforcing that is through conversations with providers or C&Ds

echo orchid
#

seen not long ago some licenses similar to the CC ones

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on GIT irc

#

that were for open source stuff

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@heady root steam doesn't overwrite a license

#

that would be illegal

#

their TOS are clear - in order to use their service you are sharing your IP rights with them

#

there is a sidenote someplace that was added later on

#

saying what for - promotion something something

spare osprey
#

But neither Relinquish ip rights correct ?
Iโ€™ll look at them the open source licenses . I think this might be good to add to the Forums .

echo orchid
#

open source means your are credited

#

but you do not own it as a "product"

#

ie - pixar's opensubdiv algorithms - all the libraries and the code is open source

#

it was developed and they- pixar (as a company) - are credited

#

but any and everyone can use / modify / improve and implement these in commercial and non-commercial products of their own

spare osprey
#

That makes sense , but as far as content creators adding it to a sub might be a good idea .

If you donโ€™t care if your mod is reuploaded to SW use this License.

And for people wanting to reupload all of these = no reupload to SW this = yes .

mild viper
#

@echo orchid So do you encourage and/or endorse reporting of 6.D violations even for APL/APL-SA mods

echo orchid
#

report towards who?

#

the author? yes

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if he doesn't care/mind, like lancer here

#

he will say that

#

if he does, he needs to take further action himself

#

i would encourage BI to put a big red notification on their own publisher tool

#

but whatever

#

in any case, most people that are using APL_SA are doing so because they are using some BI ports, and they need to keep that license intact - our case as well for certain .pbos

mild viper
#

bi database content is apl not apl-sa but yeah

echo orchid
#

whatever

#

also most mods that give a fuck about licenses

#

been around before BI wrote these licenses of their own

#

in general i don't care what other people do with the products of their free time

#

that being said, the current situation is a bit of a clusterfuck, simply because some stuff is in the grey area, due to a inability from BI part to communicate without the legalese some shit

#

and Valve's TOS

#

and not everyone has a long time friend that is an IP lawyer that can be called and asked about it free of charge (well, i do pay her through my company for work she does)

#

and there are still 3rd party solutions that can be used

#

besides Valve

#

that would, at least for tight knit communities, allow them do make whatever the duck modpacks their hearts desire

#

instead of re-uploading other people work

mild viper
#

how about dead/abandoned mods with absent authors. Is it ok to upload to SW those works with proper crediting, and if said author returns abide to their opinion on the upload in their absence.

echo orchid
#

no

unreal pivot
#

where's the general chat

#

i am new

mild viper
#

I'm not asking legally, I'm asking morally/ethically.

unreal pivot
#

i'm installing arma 3 rn

spare osprey
#

I agree with you , for my own purposes I want to make a MV-22 unless a better one comes out this year . Do I want to port A2/or create it from scratch. If I port it from A2 and improve it will I waste my time. I donโ€™t want to put a lot of work into something to find out when itโ€™s complete I violated an IP right .

echo orchid
#

that NO - stands for both

mild viper
#

so if someone has an act of god that removes them from the world of arma we should just lets their content die and be lost to time.

bitter sierra
#

ACRE is only open source while I am alive, when I die it goes closed source and paid for and you all will owe my estate $20,000 each.

#

AKSHUALLY

#

only while I am awake.

#

In fact if you even INTEND to use ACRE by just thinking about it, you owe me another $10k on top of it.

#

So don't think about ACRE.

broken veldt
#

What if we get married?

bitter sierra
#

First. Born. Child.

broken veldt
#

I'm okay with that

bitter sierra
#

It's like an abortion but you get ACRE.

broken veldt
#

I'm already going to teach my first born sqf

bitter sierra
#

Anyway, long story short, there are a lot of really dumb people in the Arma community who probably suffer from a deep seated mental illness and superiority complex. One of the primary reasons I have pulled myself back from doing anything in this community is the complete lack of coordination or cooperation between mod makers beyond the communities I have organized or helped manage (which I'd argue are some of the best run mod teams).

If you want people to use your content you should probably not be a fucking moron. Your shit doesn't stand alone. If you think it does then you are really really really out on a limb there and your content probably isn't worth it in the first place.

broken veldt
#

"Saddest words of tongue and pen, Xeno was right in the end"

carmine folio
#

I posted a while back that I cleared out any possible IP right violations from my unit's mods, can any moderators confirm if it is good now or anything else to be fixed on it?

soft egret
#

@last gorge APL-SA license doesn't allow you to reupload to workshop. Because it's a non commercial license, But by uploading to the workshop you give steam the right to use your content commercially. Only the original author can give someone rights that stand above the license.
If a third party uploads APL-SA content to steam, he violates the APL-SA license, and thus also Steams license agreement. You vowed that you can give steam the permission to use it commercially, which you cannot.
That's why steam specifically says "you have to have made the content that you are uploading yourself" to make sure everything is really clear licensing wise.
Also as Pizzadox said. APL is a "share alike" license. You cannot give it to steam under a different license that allows commercial use because that's not at all "alike"

As I'm good for comparisons. If you take a porn video that is licensed under CC-NC-SA license which is comparable to APL-SA. Are you then allowed to upload that porn to youtube? The license sure allows you to share it, but you still cannot do it because the license doesn't matter at all in this case. The platforms rules disallow it. Same with Steam Workshop. License doesn't matter.

@loud jackal Is CUP even allowed to be uploaded under this current intpretataion? Yes. They have a special agreement with Bohemia.

If you want to upload mods by other people, be it just putting a armaholic version to steam or porting it to A3, you need explicit permission to do that.
For example I took over a TFAR Retexture mod by someone else, he gave me written clear permission that I am allowed to reupload to steam and grant steam all the rights they need and that I am allowed to grant anyone any rights to the content as I please.
You basically need that kind of explicit permission if you wanna upload someone elses stuff to Steam.

#

@heady root but why do people even put APL-SA licenses on items that go onto the steam workshop if steam overrides it? Steam doesn't override the license, where did you get that from?

@carmine folio looks good. I assume that the pbo's in there are made by your guys because I can't find them anywhere else. If that's the case then yes. All fine. Thanks

#

Good morning yawn
I see we had that discussion again and tons of people who don't understand the difference between content license and content distribution platform license..

glass yacht
#

boy i hate armaholic

#

they just reupload shit no matter what

soft egret
#

juuup... But withSix was just as worse. And got even worse AFTER they've shutdown

glass yacht
#

honestly THE funniest thing to me is their reupload of one of my mods

stoic beacon
#

Have you talked to them?

glass yacht
#

look at the license tab

#

also yes they politely told me to eff off

stoic beacon
#

Uhm, that really doesn't mirror the Interaction I had with them.

glass yacht
#

they did transfer my first mod to my accounts control but not my second mod that they reuploaded on their own

soft egret
#

Does exactly mirror the interaction I had with them. Though it was not about my mod

glass yacht
#

even when i asked "hey please exclude our content from your platform, thanks"

#

that mod i linked there has been auto updated without my interaction, thats how the license tab there has "the only reliable upload is on the workshop"

#

i can't even seem to delete my own mod from armaholic lmao, the option is either nonexistent or very very very obscure

#

thing is, Foxhound legit was just "hey talk to playwithsix, we get our stuff from there, if you want them to stop auto uploading ur stuff, ur at the wrong place" back when withSix was a thing

#

and its like... ur not making ur case any better pal

stoic beacon
#

You have no control over your mod on armaholic.
But I've talked to them multiple times and they always were quick in answering and removing/changing smth about my mods page on there

soft egret
#

Maybe you were interacting with a different guy that's now Foxhound?

stoic beacon
#

Nope, it was foxhound

glass yacht
#

see that's the problem, you should definitely have control over the thing you put work into

stoic beacon
#

It's like a year ago, people change, I can only tell from the Interaction I had with them.

glass yacht
#

you should definitely have control of your own content on a website

soft egret
#

Last time I interacted with them was when someone uploaded a mission re-enacting the las vegas shooting onto armaholic and people were outraging about it.
That was also a year or 1,5y ago

glass yacht
#

what armaholic does is bordering theft tbh

#

they do upload it under the original authors name, which is why i don't consider it outright theft, but it's still super scummy to reupload other people's stuff to your own website

#

ESPECIALLY when those people ask you not to, or have a license against reuploads

stoic beacon
#

Well, if they don't respect your rights as author, you could send an email to their website host, but I doubt that will help.
It never worked out for me

soft egret
#

armaholic is the only place where you can get TFAR version 0.9.13 which simply doesn't exist.
What now if I want to release a TFAR update and want to call it 0.9.13? Who deals with the chaos?
I just don't deal with their crap anymore. Who wants to download with 10kb/s anyway

glass yacht
#

what's worse is armaholic is an inferior delivery platform

#

steam workshop is integrated into the game, you download a mod and enable it in the launcher and it's done

#

it gets automatic updates and you're informed in the launcher if there's any dependency changes or missing dependencies

#

and steam workshop itself prompts you to download dependent mods too

stoic beacon
#

Armaholic is way older than the workshop and was one of the best sources for mods back then.

glass yacht
#

was

stoic beacon
#

Yep

glass yacht
stoic beacon
#

Anyway, if they don't reply to you or don't respect your rights, there honestly isn't much you can do Afaik.
Try to contact the hoster or tell them to remove your stuff again or get a lawyer

glass yacht
#

that's what also sucks

#

there's nothing you can feasibly do if they say they aren't taking your mod down

#

i could get a lawyer but does your average joe have the time and money for it? that's what armaholic gambles on

#

not intentionally ofc, but that's what's probably kept it afloat, it's just a thing that's stuck around that everyone sort of neglects

#

yknow

broken veldt
#

@soft egret ๐Ÿบ Thanks for that, seems strange to have such a conflict in distribution and content since BI put out the nice mod licenses but that's on Valve. Looks like the practical solution for partial mod usage and edits is to use a custom repository and avoid the Workshop.

soft egret
#

Exactly that yes.
People should really stop blaming the modders for what's really Steam's EULA's fault...

glass yacht
#

found the screencap of what foxhound said about my mod bein reuploaded

lone basin
glass yacht
fossil basalt
#

On the surface, I see nothing wrong with it. I thinking the clarifying point to be made here is "intent" and "knowledge". For example, when you knowingly link to a Google Drive upload of banned/stolen content, you should suffer the consequences.

delicate ember
#

Damnn, so everyone who ever uploaded RIP zenith project? Moddb and playwithsix still has upload of it?

brisk ember
#

Slight difference between people who linked when it was not yet discovered to be fraudulent and people who linked to off-shore download because it was found to be fraudulent

echo orchid
#

@bitter sierra
which I'd argue are some of the best run mod teams.
my world, you're such a rockstar, will you carry my babies?

#

@stoic beacon - depends on the hosting platform. Best bet is to send a C&D letter

wraith comet
lone basin
#

Hey, since Armaholic has a subscription system, doesn't that break the Arma Public Licences of mods distributed under any of these?

soft egret
#

No because the mods are also available for free. And it isn't really monetizing the mods

lone basin
#

Oh okay, that must be another license then. Thanks

safe arrow
#

They are still ignoring any licenses the mod-creator may have included in their files (things like "only source shall be my own workshop-files")

carmine folio
#

I shall just point out again that despite an exchange with Armaholic about the removal of my mods they still have not done so over a year later. They do not take down stuff, they say they will and then don't.

#

Given that they impose additional license terms over content which is not compatible with a variety of licenses this is actually pretty bad. Again I am not inclined to actually sue but others should be aware that Armaholic will not remove despite breaching your license, they just don't care about doing so at all, they really will force you to raise a lawsuit against them.

glass yacht
#

yeah it may not really be against the law but it's still super scummy and unfair

carmine folio
#

Well in my case it is as they are removing rights that are granted in the license. So they are in breach of license in the way they are redistributing with additional limiting terms. That isn't true of the reuploaders on Steam, while they are claiming they have rights to the content that they breach Steams terms and conditions but they are probably not breaching my license, so it isn't for me to deal with the problem it is for Steam. I think where this might come unstuck is if they charge for its use and have resigned it, and that point rights have been removed.

river spear
#

@glass yacht but it is

lone basin
#

Also you could contact their host or their registrar, don't know where they are (registrar/hoster) but that's maybe a thing to try. After that, I don't see any options :/

loud jackal
#

Without trying to be negative, a license and contract is only as good as one is willing to pursue and enforce it. They are honestly relying on the inability of most to not challenge them at financial expense. Writing the license and bundling it together with one's content is a gesture up until you run into someone who does not respect it and wishes to challenge it. While it is not fun or exciting to deal with, many sites operate under the assumption that no one will ever challenge, and the few that do, will not expend the effort to take it into a legal battle when it is in a "hobby" domain. Some sites from large publishers have done this in the past and even accomdidate their budget for these type of legal issues. As a content creator I can completely understand how that would cripple anyone's desire to make content develop or continue to work on it when you do not have the means to keep things in the spirit of the license and motivations you had for releasing the content. My only suggestion would be to bring more of these events to light so that they are either corrected.

#

You make the larger community aware of the site that is ignoring the license and redistbution, and you find out what the community at large's stance is towards these sorts of issues. I am sure you can not be alone in this type of issue with the site in question, and quite frankly I have had other poor interactions with them in another manner, to the point it spoiled relations of even trying to interact with them in any manner (all be fore the 10kbps mirrors). A witch hunt and attack is not nessiciarily what you may want to start with but find the like stories, and get the community awareness increased. The site in question still is a business at the end of the day and they need to make decisions for themselves on how they operate, or adapt to operate. If their community and userbase have no reason to visit in light of any morale issues or practices that are followed, they may have to change their model to better fit within their market. At the end of the day individual complaints towards someone larger than you are an annoyance to certain site operators that may be ignored w/o truly understanding the damage they are doing to the community at large or signs of their inability to adapt to how the community is evolving. But typically the actions of a single complaint will just be ignored.

wise cairn
#

Woah

glass yacht
#

Armaholic: Cold War Assault

wheat wave
#

just a thought: wouldn't BI be able to enforce modders will on armaholic? after all AH gets money from ads, couldn't that be considered a monetization of some sort?

#

from personal experience, when i asked them to remove my stuff they whined a bit but in the end they complied

prisma scaffold
#

Not without basically sicking the lawyers on them.

wheat wave
#

isnt that what they do normally anyway

#

when something is reported at the infringements email

glass yacht
#

yeah if they reupload my next mod then im gonna contact bohemia

#

via that email

chilly silo
#

You are responsibile for your own IP. Not BI. That email is for infringements of BI's own licences. Not your own

dull moon
#

@glass yacht
If you haven't uploaded your content to steam yet, do it and set it to private for now. That's easier for you to file DMCAs via steam for evidence/proof

bitter sierra
#

So many fucking idiots that think they know legal matters, not to mention international copyright law... which is a cluster fuck of different systems of jurisprudence.

#

This has been a chuckle, I am glad I reopened discord for this.

#

I'll just say it again to the idiots that haven't gotten it. Your shit is not the best in the world, people want to play with your stuff and other stuff, combined maybe it is the best thing in the world, but standing alone, if you think your content is so glorious and amazing that it needs to be bathed in praise and played with by itself then you are just a delusional little twat who is a cancer on this community. Bitch about groups using your content and making it easier to get your content is the most short sighted and ignorant approach to a hobby I've ever seen. Just post pictures and never release if that is the case, be a dick tease, because that is all anyone is essentially arguing for here when they bitch about their content being on Steam.

echo orchid
#

did you wake up the wrong way again? is there any point to this rant besides the obvious chuckle material?

bitter sierra
#

No, there is a point. Collaboration within this community is stymied by the egos of arrogant people who are overly protective of their work.

#

It's a fucking nightmare to try and get any form of collaboration and consistency within the community.

#

Which is why I mostly just gave up.

#

If everyone wants Arma's mod community to just be "hats" like in other games then fine.

soft egret
#

Don't know what thieves just taking other peoples stuff and illegally (violating mod license and steam subscriber agreement and btw also #rules) uploading it to the workshop has anything to do with modders collaboration.

#

Maybe you missunderstood what we were talking about in here?

bitter sierra
#

that is the most basic form of collaboration

broken veldt
#

I believe the desire to try to lock content behind encryption/strange ND licenses restricts collaboration with other mods especially those that operate open source with many collaborators.

bitter sierra
#

IE getting your shit in the hands of others.

echo orchid
#

can you give a couple of examples maybe?

#

because besides the obvious monetized addons via servers

#

that are also encrypted, i have yet to see whatever you are talking about

#

are you talking about collaboration between content makers or users and creators?

soft egret
#

The only people that really lock their stuff behind encrypted stuff are the life servers that continuously steal the real modders stuff and pretend it's theirs.
I don't know of any modder that is actively against collaboration? (besides the life crap ofc)

broken veldt
#

3cb?

soft egret
#

oh right ๐Ÿ˜„

broken veldt
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haha

#

they basically have really badly written alternatives for most ace functions

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which is fun

digital quarry
#

3cb doesnt have to share their work, and i have seen their team collaborate with other modders personally so you are wrong they do collaborate

echo orchid
#

is it now, is 3cb encrypted?

soft egret
#

obfuscated

broken veldt
#

by encrypted i meant ^

echo orchid
#

hmm, weird even so

broken veldt
#

Weird and not helpful

echo orchid
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define helpful

broken veldt
#

It would be nice if 1) mod was actively maintained by a team that at least made the best effort to keep with common mod standards in regards to cba/ace and tfar/acre

#

or

#
  1. mod was open source and let anyone update to those standards, either way
#

Instead if you want to override badly written functions and EH for vehicles added by content mods like that you need to create a separate addon and delete/redefine config entries and recompile functions

#

If you compare that to say, ACEX in arma 2, I think the difference between the levels of cooperation and standarization with the major content mods and the framework mods is pretty clear

#

I believe that is what Nou might have been getting at, past the swearing

echo orchid
#

a. lol what? i don't see a common standard in ArmA, it surely the common standard is not another mod. Yes, follow basic A3 inheritance where possible
b. it would be unwise for mod A to be dependent on mod B where he has no control over. What happens if A3 pushes an update and mod B goes tits up, and no one fixes it?

  1. open source might be ok for stuff that has a ton of value inside of A3, and much less so for stuff that has values for stuff that has monetary value outside A3.

  2. ACEX was a pack of content made by different individuals, from all over the A3 community. Some was made inhouse, there was a ton that was injected from 3rd party sources - i would know, been part of ACE since its inception all the way to A2.

digital quarry
#

You do realize that if modders just started making their works open source, especially big projects like 3cb and such, people would be claiming their work as someone elses. Credits rarely given. Stealing someones hard work isnt flattering in the slightest. If you have an issue with so-and-so's mod you dont go talking to other people about how "bad" people protecting their hard work are, you go to them, you try to bring your case up to them instead of saying "They should make it open source so people can improve on it", which would not only open the door to stealing assets, you also get 100000 of the same mod with minor tweaks on the workshop and such. So if you have an issue with the 3CB team, bring it up to them instead of complaining in the section of the ArmA III discord about fixing issues involving stolen assets.

echo orchid
#

in any case this particular discussion doesn't belong in this channel

#

and while some think there is no cooperation going on, just because that happens between certain individuals behind closed doors

#

it doesn't mean it isn't happening

broken veldt
#

People refusing derivatives and public collaboration on account of crediting themselves is exactly what Nou was saying.

echo orchid
#

i have seen my own 3d models ripped and sold online

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i am not the only one, there is a reason none of my content will ever be open source

broken veldt
#

Life servers or something?

echo orchid
#

no, i mean cg trader

digital quarry
#

its an issue that stretches past ArmA III itself

broken veldt
#

I find it strange that someone would purchase a model over the internet if the model was available for free somewhere else.

echo orchid
#

when 3cb approached me and ask if they can have my gorka and glock models, i sent them the .p3ds withoug blinking an eye

broken veldt
#

For example it would be pretty hard to sell ACE 3 for 10 bucks

echo orchid
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preciselly

broken veldt
#

...

#

then I dont get your point if you agree with that

echo orchid
#

you have different content in A3

#

a. missions / campaigns, scenarious whatever
b. configs, scripts, functions, EHs etc
c. 3d models of weapons, characters, gear, vehicles, structures
d. islands

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e. custom stuff like acre and tfar for external products

#

for a and b, they have nil value outside the A3 space

#

for d. again, very hard to sell that outside A3 space

#

for c. though, there is an increase occurrence of ripped assets

#

from mods and different games

broken veldt
#

I see what you are saying. This was the ACRE problem with possible VBS usage, and I'm sure the same occured with TFAR. If you want it non commercial, and all that source material is available for free, I don't see how you can easily monetize that with a NC license and always having that material freely available.

#

Unless you want to have the ability to monetize that material for something else later on

echo orchid
#

you said open source

#

that means what toadie is doing, as in providing the raw and unbinned models for free for everyone

#

also, there are models made for A3 by different groups

#

that were later put by their authors for sale on different platforms across the web

#

or the other way, that were acquired from 3d model websites and used into A3.

#

again, bar a few individuals, everyone i know is pretty happy with 3rd parties making derivative work

#

so i really don't see the issue

#

again, everyone is allowed to release their own stuff as they see fit. Most people i have seen bitching about mod A or B not being open enough have not made a single thing on their own

chilly silo
#

It always makes me chuckle when i read about how mods should be "Open Source" and people getting bent out of shape when they find out a mod is obfuscated. Nine times out of ten they are upset because they can't steal or crib bits from it. Quite a few people back in the day made their rep's from cribbing other people's work claiming all scripts were open source and couldnt be copyrighted. They all seem to have vanished now obfuscation has become a thing. Odd that isnt it. ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜ญ

#

Oh and just to add to whoever was talking about "badly written functions"...if you find an issue, especially one the causes conflicts with other mods; talk to the Author, explain why its a problem. Don't just bitch about how you can't fix it. Or how shit the mod is. If you know how to fix it, offer a solution. You never know you might actually make a friend. ๐Ÿ˜‰

bitter sierra
#

My rationale is that if you don't want your content ripped don't offer it for free anywhere, because where you offer it makes no difference to if it is ripped or not.

#

So if someone takes your mod and puts it in a mod pack on Steam who fucking cares? They aren't stealing it.

#

If someone wants to rip your model and put it in GTAV or something they'll just download it legit from you and do it anyways.

#

All you are doing by being a fucking autist about where you can download your mod from is making it harder for people to use your work.

#

You know what happens when you tell people to remove something from their mod pack? No one uses your shit, so you might as well stop making stuff altogether.

#

@chilly silo Dude, there are some people that legit are fucking nuts.

chilly silo
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Are you saying I'm one of them?

bitter sierra
#

Early in ACE3 we tried to work with the group doing armor penetration for RHS... They asked Jaynus and I to look at their code, Jaynus looked at their code, made some edits, and less than 24 hours later gave it to them to look at and they then claimed he stole their code.

#

No...?

#

Do you have a persecution complex?

chilly silo
#

LOL no but given the tone of your post I though i'd better ask than just assume.

bitter sierra
#

I'm not speaking to any one individual, the people I am criticizing know in their hearts who they are.

#

Delta Hawk during ACE2 didn't want to donate to ACE2 because he claimed it was too "high speed low drag SOCOM" of a mod, when I was literally asking him for stuff to compliment my artillery simulation stuff.

#

He then went on to list features that already existed in ACE2 as what would be gating criteria for donating.

#

When I told him those features already existed he just went nuts instead and claimed we'd steal his stuff.

#

That is a criticism of people directly.

#

Because those are specific instances where people have been just utterly insane.

#

At that point I just stop working with them because they have no value in the community if they are literally just going to do things for fake internet points and accoldates on BIF.

chilly silo
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Look i agree there are some that are taking things a bit too far. there are even people who are jumping in on issues when they arent even involved with either party. But you cant escape the reality of the steam license 6D. If you dont own it (or arent authorised to) don't upload it. Anything after that well thats up to the authors to decide what happens next.

bitter sierra
#

I know, thats fine, I am just saying the people that care about that are idiots.

#

Because their work will never be used.

#

So why even make stuff for Arma.

chilly silo
#

which is up to them surely

bitter sierra
#

Yea, just pointing out the state of the community.

chilly silo
#

let them crack on with it. You do you, let them do them

bitter sierra
#

Right, but I'd rather they not be dickteases.

#

"oh here is my awesome vehicle pack, you can only use it by itself and with nothing else"

#

that is effectively what they are doing if they dont allow it to be distributed to a community.

chilly silo
#

C'mon we both know people will always be dicks.

bitter sierra
#

I know, and I am calling them on it.

#

And saying put up or shut up, and the shut up is just get out of the community.

#

Stop being part of it because you are just cancer.

merry kestrel
#

wow

chilly silo
#

and I think you are just wasting your breath. Let them be , move on and you will be much happier ๐Ÿ˜›

bitter sierra
#

Oh I moved on, years ago, but its just hilarious that this is still a debate. That content makers haven't learned.

merry kestrel
#

the arrogance, to tell mod makers what to do

chilly silo
#

Some have. Some of the new guys are just learning... let it go

bitter sierra
#

GeneralKong, I believe I've contributed enough to the Arma community to be allowed to say a number of things and have that be backed by experience.

merry kestrel
#

it does not allow you to give orders, their is difference between opinions, and the blanket statements that you are making

bitter sierra
#

I didn't give orders, I am saying, if I was them.

merry kestrel
#

you are saying that anyone that does not want their stuff to be reuploaded, they are idiots

bitter sierra
#

My personal motto has always been collaboration or death.

#

And I got sick of very often being the only one doing anything of technical merit in this community for years.

chilly silo
#

there are many ways to collaborate.

merry kestrel
#

yep arrogance to the extreme

#

"I am the only person that has done anything!"

chilly silo
#

@bitter sierra I'm sorry mate but that is an amazingly arrogant thing to say when there are so many other that have contributed as much over the years.

bitter sierra
#

There has been, but for the longest time it was myself and a select few other people, the people working on CBA mostly, that did anything to drive standardization and ease of collaboration in this community.

#

And when people openly attacked us for doing it, it just seemed useless.

#

And when the model makers just sit back and then complain about people using their content it just makes it all the more pointless.

chilly silo
#

@bitter sierra I think i understand the point you were trying to make but you've just completely eclipsed that with your "only me" statement. Sorry you just lost all your credibility

#

there are lots of different ways to contribute

#

that wasnt one of them

soft egret
#

You know what happens when you tell people to remove something from their mod pack? No one uses your shit That's not that true. So far most people I DMCA'ed moved over to use dependencies correctly instead of reuploading stuff.

I am just saying the people that care about that are idiots. Because their work will never be used. Yeah.. Like noone ever uses RHS,CUP,TFAR and so on? Really?
you can only use it by itself and with nothing else noone says that. You know you don't need to reupload stuff to steam to use them in a modpack? do you?

No one here complains about people using their mods together with other mods. Literally no one. Because that would not be #ip_rights_violations but instead #offtopic_arma so such talk wouldn't have any place here.

when the model makers just sit back and then complain about people using their content noone does that. They only complain about people needlessly stealing their stuff without asking.
They made the mods for free. You can just download it and use it. There is literally no need to rip stuff out of a mod, rename it, and pretend you made it.

merry kestrel
#

yeh I have no idea where you got that impression

bitter sierra
#

Dependencies are fucking stupid, because anyone that has maintained a mod pack knows that stuff is very fluid in having bugs or not.

merry kestrel
#

wut

soft egret
#

That is Steam Workshop's fault. Not the modders fault

bitter sierra
#

Right. So what is the solution? Reuploading the version that works.

chilly silo
#

Feedback to the author

bitter sierra
#

Which has proven to often not be useful.

soft egret
#

Not using steam workshop is the solution.

chilly silo
#

and its also proven to work

bitter sierra
#

@soft egret no not really.

#

It is the best mod distribution platform Arma has seen.

#

And even then

narrow topaz
#

When uploading to the Steam workshop grants certain rights to Steam, yeah, it kind of is

bitter sierra
#

it doesn't address the point that uploading to your own private repo would be the same violation.

soft egret
#

No literally it is. I talked to dozens of people who reuploaded stuff. If they really had a valid argument that auto-updating is not acceptible. then they just moved to their own mod distribution scheme. Not really a porlbme

bitter sierra
#

@narrow topaz No, people that don't understand legal concepts think that, its not true.

soft egret
#

it doesn't address the point that uploading to your own private repo would be the same violation. It wouldn't. Where did you get that from?

bitter sierra
#

Oh so out of sight out of mind?

lone basin
#

Also, reuploading means that, most of the time, no one will update the pack with the latest version. So you can have security issues, performaces issues, etc that can affect the reputation of the mod (if the modpack is populaer) even if all these issues where fixed...

soft egret
#

No..

bitter sierra
#

So what is the problem? Steam? You said use Steam dependencies...

soft egret
#

I don't know any modder that forbids private mod repositiories. That stuff has been done for years and I don't know anyone that wants to stop that

#

I already told you that steam is the problem..

bitter sierra
#

So posting the link to your YOMA or whatever flavor of updater on your public forum is OK but on the steam workshop isnt?

soft egret
#

Sure one can link to the workshop..

#

I don't know why you don't seem to understand...

bitter sierra
#

You seem to have a problem with Steam...

#

And not public distribution via personally maintained updaters...

soft egret
#

Steam Subscriber Agreement 6D. Read it.

lone basin
#

Because it's forbiden by Steam to upload things where YOU ARE NOT THE AUTHOR (or something like that, see what Dedmen said above)

merry kestrel
#

if I could post a facepalm pic, I could

bitter sierra
#

What about it?

#

NO

#

OMFG

#

unless you have a grasp of legal concepts in the slightest you shouldn't pretend you do.

soft egret
#

I totally agree. You shouldn't.

merry kestrel
#

^

bitter sierra
#

In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).

#

read the entire fucking para.

#

fucking morons.

soft egret
bitter sierra
#

If I say you can upload ACRE to your personal steam workshop modpack you are not in violation of 6D

narrow topaz
#

Now combine that with the rest of the condition in which it exists. You have to be a contributor and have permission from all other contributors. Simply re-uploading someone else's work does not make you a contributor.