ip_rights_violations

[leaden cipher]

@gloomy valve ⬆️ so in short, nothing is allowed to be advertised on this discord about this IP, and yes it is known the mods do exist on the steamworkshop and in private networks on download sites.

[hot marten]

Argument #731 about star wars mods

Tbh, Disney know about the star wars mods, there’s no way they don’t

Between Gmod, Helldivers 2, arma 3, and god knows what else, they probably just chose to ignore it

My question is how would CBS react to a Star Trek mod

I think there was one years ago, but like, I haven’t actually seen it on the workshop, and I know CBS are <strict> with the Star Trek IP

Edit: removed off-colour exaggeration of CBS’s policy; that was just my personal frustration with the franchise slipping through

It’s why the kelvin timeline is so detached from the original series and next gen eras

[tulip meadow]

@hot marten Please note that this is the incorrect channel for this.

1. This channel is regarding actual IP rights violations
2. In general there is no reason to talk about hypothetical scenarios which nobody has any meaningful information about.
   Hence, thank you for your statement and question but topic closed.
   Thank you for your understanding.

[hot marten]

👍

[lapis quiver]

Agree

[forest sparrow]

A beamng mod popped up on their forums using the Arma 2 model for the Humvee, is this illegal?
https://www.beamng.com/threads/bohemia-interactive-studios-hmmwv.93930/

[echo orchid]

it is yes, send email to the mail pinned to this channel

[ebon jewel]

Probably shouldn't have posted yourself in that thread and let these guys deal with it. You've just warned the guy what might be coming.

[lapis quiver]

Why is this ilegal ? I thought using Arma 2 Models from the Samples pack is completely legal

[echo orchid]

exclusivelly in Arma francise, yes, not in any other games (beamng in this case)

[lapis quiver]

Oh Beamng is a game ?😂 i thought it was the name of the ripper

[ruby halo]

Soooo is it cool for people to like edit nd mods

[elfin heron]

no

[faint nacelle]

no

why do you ask?

[ruby halo]

Got folks editing our nd stuff I reported it a month ago but it’s still up

[elfin heron]

dmca it

[ruby halo]

Is that the same as reporting it on the workshop

[elfin heron]

which one

[faint nacelle]

DMCA is the nuclear option when your data is being uploaded without permission

the report flagging can be used if you find something offensive on the workshop but its not your data

[ruby halo]

Then how do I dmca

[faint nacelle]

steam should have instructions for that

[ruby halo]

Hmm ok thank you 🙏🏻

[tulip badge]

Ok, serious question.

If I DMCA something on the steam workshop, will that other person have access to my address and other personal information? I don't know why, but I've heard this some some folks.

The said person in question has already utilized what personal information they have about me to harass me by contacting people at places I know IRL

Ideally I need to do this without revealing any further personal information

[elfin heron]

yes

use a PO box or lawyer if need be

file harassment charges if need be as well

[tulip badge]

I was hoping to avoid that for now

But understandable

[elfin heron]

well if you have an issue with someone harassing you generally filing harassment charges is how to stop them harassing you

[tulip badge]

Nah you're right

Thanks for the answer

[chilly silo]

If you do have any issues or abuse let the Steam DMCA team know and they will take action. Make sure you record any and all evidence.

They've banned users before.

[tulip badge]

Wow. Ok, thank you for letting me know.

[chilly silo]

No problem. As much people moan about Steam their DMCA team is pretty good at dealing with abuse issues.

[stoic ice]

YouTube autoplay just graced me with this marvelous video. Isn't that the Arma 3 Mk14 EBR at the start?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyrhPxiI1j0

[elfin heron]

is selling content containing photos/videos of arma without permission of bi against eula or not

[coral torrent]

Please provide an example, this question is too general to give you a reliable answer.

[elfin heron]

like if i sell a book that contains photos that are exclusively from arma and/or using BI created content

in addition to other text

[carmine folio]

@stoic ice similar, yes. Same, don't think so.

https://gyazo.com/54511b7e6ddfc1162e6c59f6c119efd8

https://gyazo.com/089c9f29461de67c7b15e64538bf864c

Front iron sight, foregrip, upper looks different

[coral torrent]

Clear and simple no. https://www.bohemia.net/community/game-content-usage-rules

[crimson ingot]

so hexacam is copyrighted by Bohemia

[whole jay]

based on this, id say yes

[coral torrent]

If the camo was created by us or exclusively licensed from a contractor then indeed you would not be allowed to use it. If you think you see a very distinct usage that is 99% from our games, please report it to the email in channel description and our legal team will check if any of our rights were infringed and take action if deemed neccessary. Thank you

[elfin heron]

cool i have a wonderful thing for BI legal then

[dull moon]

@pliant oar
we got a guy who reuploaded CBA_A3 (not sure what the conditions are), but also All In Arma Terrainpack which is violating .kju's announcement on first post
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=575622921
https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/171988-all-in-arma-terrain-pack-aia-tp-a1a2oa-terrains-from-bi-in-a3/

[dull moon]

he also received a request for DMCA takedown and should be therefor striped off his monetization license for unauthorized use of content

[fast jacinth]

Really i mean... saying you can't upload something to a workshop without it being in license.... doesn't really hold much water ya know?

[dull moon]

well, the project is transfered to CUP and statement is clear: no upload to WS unless CUP does it

[fast jacinth]

but.. it's not cup.

CUP is a new version. the old AiA is still the same.

[dull moon]

but it is what it is, a violation to .kju's therms

[fast jacinth]

being unless in the license it states no uploading to steam... then too bad.

is it in his terms?

[iron flame]

@fast jacinth Good to know that an author's opinion does not matter AT ALL anymore.

[fast jacinth]

Did i say that?

I said it doesn't hold any water legall.

legally*

I wish a mans word was enough, but today it simply isn't.

The only violation of license is not giving credit, and not linking to the license.

Which lets be honest, most mod packs don't.

(not that that makes it right)

This just sounds like a petty attempt to get competition taken down really. Caiden screwed up a lot of the A3 Community with what he did, but it doesn't mean everyone should just go after each other left and right.

[iron flame]

competition? o.O

hey @dull moon , you setting up a roleplaying community? didn't know.

[candid barn]

Lol

[dull moon]

shut up... nobody needs to know ;D

[iron flame]

:)

[rich zenith]

I'd love to see a rather unique roleplay community..

[fast jacinth]

as would I.

[rich zenith]

too much Altis Life, too much lakeside reallife

[fast jacinth]

The only people I thought coming close was Nerds, but that changed.

[iron flame]

What is unique for a month soon becomes copied a billion times and won't be unique anymore

[fast jacinth]

^usually

[iron flame]

It's why they invented patents I guess :D

[rich zenith]

@fast jacinth i didn't know about nerds until now, why did it change?

[fast jacinth]

Boolean tried to sell their code to another community

[rich zenith]

oh..

[fast jacinth]

the community told Nerds head honcho about it.

so they scrapped EVERYTHING, and went to unreal.

lol

[dull moon]

but back to the uploads: this guy asked permission to use CUP content for a monetizationed server and we denied. 2 days later he published his mod with the content anyways. therefore, brute force takedown

[fast jacinth]

Boolean is black listed from many communities. heh

[iron flame]

@dull moon didn't know he actually continued with the upload of CUP....wow....yeah don't know how this guy still has a monetization license

[echo orchid]

@fast jacinth - read steam EULA

unless you own IP rights for something, you cannot upload it to SW

[fast jacinth]

so in this case, breaking Steam Eula, not AIA 'license'

[echo orchid]

section 6b and 6d

[fast jacinth]

THAT makes sense. :-P

[dull moon]

i'm downloading again to verify

@iron flame

[fast jacinth]

while it still sounds like just trying to get someone else in trouble.. why not just inform the guy?

[echo orchid]

which guy?

[ebon sand]

he has been

[fast jacinth]

ahh, ok

[ebon sand]

multiple times

[dull moon]

"can i use your stuff" - "no" - "i'm doing it anyway" - "Oh, pls dont..."
really?

[iron flame]

Basically comes down to, he's the crook and we're the witnesses reporting it to the popo (BIS)

[echo orchid]

the fuckwit from arma.network? i have already exchanged several email with him. he doesn't have monetiztion approval

but he keeps on doing it

[iron flame]

yep that guy

[echo orchid]

even if most mails came from bi very helpful legal dep

[fast jacinth]

As I understand it, BI stated any mods created for arma are the property of BIS. Correct? So the only issue is that he uploaded to steam workshop right?

[echo orchid]

lol what?

wrong

any mod IPs belong to the original creator(s)

BI doesn't own any 3rd party mods, not even shared IP as steam wants from anything that has been uploaded

where the fuck do you get these "facts" from?

[fast jacinth]

twas what i heard, that's what I wanted to verify. :-P

[echo orchid]

that's what most people who are fucking with other people work want to believe

and that is what they are spreading...

[iron flame]

Regarding AiA TP and the fact that Kju stated very clearly that he does not allow uploading to steam workshop, but that it wouldn't hold any water legal wise if someone did upload it - i quote from the BIS site: "You must respect the copyright of other people, not just Bohemia Interactive, if it infringes someone else’s rights then you can’t do it. Usually there is a clear license included with each work. If there is no clear license, you are simply not authorized to use it. Just because something is available for download doesn't mean that you can freely use it."

[echo orchid]

@iron flame - it is not about court, it is about DMCA

do you happen to know how many i fill per week?

[old mauve]

^^

[iron flame]

I was on about an earlier talk :P

[echo orchid]

all of those have been solved, all in my /RHS favout

ahh, must have missed something then

so if kju can demonstrate (and he can) that AIA is his work (so it is his IP) then he can easily take down any steam uploads in under 2 weeks

[old mauve]

Did the arma.network guy take down the RHS uploads or did Steam take it down?

[echo orchid]

yes, it takes a while, and yes it does consume time. That's the main reason shit has been uploaded so many times and without ownership or aproval from IP owners on Steam

i filled DMCA, he got scared and took those down

[old mauve]

ah yes

[echo orchid]

Steam takes about 1 week to proceed (maybe less for ppl who are doing it often enough,i have quite a record these days :))

[cobalt creek]

< 24h last time i reported something :P

[iron flame]

So now that same guy is doing the same thing with CUP?

[old mauve]

:D with mine it's a bit more complicated since it's 1 file in a folder with tens or hundreds

[iron flame]

well....that is if @dull moon can re-confirm the CUP usage (but he's downloading atm)

[old mauve]

he is indeed using CUP, has been for a while

[echo orchid]

ahh, even better, my first one was 1 week and a lot of questions via e-mail

[old mauve]

that's good, at least they're thorough

[echo orchid]

it is easier for RHS since the eula is visible, there is a website and copyright is also visible

[dull moon]

confirmed, CUP content still included

[iron flame]

Right...but there are two issues with that.....first of all the APL-SA license CUP has is being violated.....secondly (but harder to prove?) he's monetarizing CUP content

[echo orchid]

it is pretty simple to prove really

if CUP wants to put this twat in the ground, they can contact me, i am trying to close his shop unless he gets his shit sorted

[iron flame]

well...I don't know about six feet under but uhh....

[dull moon]

@echo orchid you got my permission

[iron flame]

@echo orchid Professional hitman? :D

[rich zenith]

naa, he'll probably only sleep with the fishes

[echo orchid]

neah, not that way, that would be illegal and way to easy on him

[rich zenith]

oooooh

you like the long and painful methods

[echo orchid]

i know UK tax would love to hear about his "donations" either way

[rich zenith]

idk what you guys are talking about whatsoever

[echo orchid]

long and painful, yes, that is what i am talking

[rich zenith]

aaaah, gotcha

[sacred sedge]

@midnight compass or @pliant oar I need to make a report can one of you get to me in DMs please.

[native narwhal]

why wouldn't you DM them instead?

[sacred sedge]

I have. they more than likely dont have notifications on.

[dry hill]

There's an email to send it to

[sacred sedge]

Im aware.

[sweet gulch]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3285785946

Pretty sure this is just a model ripped from Call of Duty Advanced Warfare

[manic laurel]

then please make sure of it and report it to [e-mail]

[grim saffron]

Hey just curious but is this included Arma Reforger?

[manic laurel]

no.

[grim saffron]

That’s what I thought because it doesn’t mention it so just wanted to make sure

You can’t take any form of donations in Arma Reforger correct?

[manic laurel]

you can take donations, provided they are donations and not any exchange

[grim saffron]

Thanks for the clarification very much appreciated

[soft egret]

It's donations, not monetization.
So the answer would be yes?

[manic laurel]

yes - I thought the question was more general about "A3 monetisation rules" which do not apply to AR
@grim saffron sorry for the confusion

[lapis quiver]

I would be careful to say this, this could also be a recreation of the Model

Nevermind the cockpit textures are the same as in CoD AW

[compact timber]

how long does it take normally until reports on IP stuff of reported mods on the Reforger Workshop are getting looked into ?

[faint nacelle]

Im fairly sure nothing happens over the weekend at least

[elfin heron]

BI legal work slower than a tortoise on MDMA - if there's been nothing after 2 weeks, email them again. if theres nothing a week after that, let them know youll just go to their service provider the next week. week after that contact vodafone cz (isp for reforger workshop) and let them know about it as they are obligated to act. its the only way ive managed to get bi legal to do ANYTHING

[crude trail]

damn

[pearl junco]

mario was happy to help us out fast in various different violations. Really cant complain about it. Not sure how long the „official“ way of reporting mods inside the workshop would take

[foggy grotto]

ideas/opinions on what to do with mods from a site like moddb when one of those in charge seems not to care much about the issue, obviously talking about mods that violate copyright, there is a mod that is a compilation of mods that they edited and publish it saying that they created it, there are mods for Soul_Assasin, RKSL Rock, Feint, hcpookie, etc, etc, just to name a few.

[rustic copper]

If they're your mod, send a DMCA to have them taken down.
If not your mod, report it to the original creator (unless they uploaded it there)

[lapis quiver]

1 year +-

[elfin heron]

if they ignore a dmca go to their server's internet service provider with the same thing just give them more info etc

[compact timber]

God I hope not

[stiff jasper]

"if they ignore a dmca go to their server's internet service provider"

[crude trail]

you shouldn’t need to basically force someone’s hand into enforcing a dmca

[elfin heron]

state we're in with both bohemia and sites like moddb

[coral torrent]

Semi related: The Arma Reforger Workshop (not to be confused with A3 / DZ Steam Workshop) does not oblidge to DMCA regulations as we are not under the legislation of the US. However since a DMCA takedown notice usually contains all relevant information that is required under EU law we most often process them regardless.
If you make a takedown and you are a) not the actual original author or b) the information you provide is not sufficient (no evidence, no contact details etc) then it will simply be ignored.

[hallow glen]

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/790/oj

Didn't read through it all, but would be rad if you could provide what all you need for s notice to be considered "sufficiently substantiated".

[rustic copper]

In the EU a host still has to abide Copyright laws, so if you can provide proof that you are the original copyright holder (or retrieved those rights), and the file(s) break those laws, than EU hosters are required to take it down.

Although the big question is; where are the servers located where the files are hosted? 😏

I'm pretty sure the BI legal team knows what they're doing, although it's also common for non-EU companies to follow DMCA, even when not US based.

[elfin heron]

CZ, hosted by Vodafone

[echo orchid]

WIPO Copyright Treaty is the base for both DMCA and EUCD

[rustic copper]

I know their webservers are hosted there, but it would be weird to also host all the mods from the same machine... for worldwide access...

Especially because they also have AWS servers hosted in Germany, and most likely more 😉

[elfin heron]

When I checked it was vodafone cz

Might've been temporary and/or relocated

[rustic copper]

PS. this is not a way to "force" BI into doing something that isn't needed, because also in the EU they have to follow the law.

The ping servers for Reforger are spread around the world (so it's not all based on the connection to Europe), so they have at least some stuff outside of the EU.

[hallow glen]

That's because DMCA notice usually contains enough information for it to be considered notice of copyright infringement, the EU "variant of DMCA". I looked a bit and didn't find what all is necessary to be contained in notice like that, but I would assume it's what is infringing, how, who am I and some "proof" of being the copyright owner.

After recieving such notice, the hoster is required by law to act.
If not, it's grounds for lawsuit

[paper prawn]

I wonder whether there is at least one advantage to the BI Workshop that they run, at least among the disadvantages (primarily scale). While you have to provide data to BI do they provide your personal info to the accused like in DMCAs? We know that there are people who will let IP theft succeed because they do not want their private info shared...

[elfin heron]

iirc given its legal proceedings they have to share if asked

[soft egret]

Well EU has GDPR. So just sending someone's details away probably isn't a thing like in the US?

Question is if you agree to it being sent away by filing a notice?

[elfin heron]

Ah true

[upbeat stone]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3275330302&searchtext=

I think this is against EULA? he shared multiple car mods in steam workshop for arma 3.

[faint nacelle]

@glossy holly are you selling mods here? 👆

[paper prawn]

I'd say yes...

[crude trail]

now i wanna look at his discord lmao

[echo orchid]

lol, cars that are most likely ripped from some place, surely not self made?

[ivory garnet]

looks like stuff from life mods

[hollow hull]

As a follow on, steam workshop is subject to copyright laws originating out of washington (dc or state? one of them) because of steam. The reforger workshop is their own servers, so the laws applicable are different.

[elfin heron]

isnt the reforger workshop itself hosted on AWS servers

i know most of the frontend is on vodafone cz

[lapis quiver]

A Mod that crashes the game when you dont pay him. Seems like an evil script...

This is just stupid

[paper prawn]

Yep

[crude trail]

it doesnt crash

i opened the mod files and it's literally just an empty config with his discord lmao

[fallen gale]

1 KB car mod 🤣

[slim jetty]

So my stuff got hit within 5 minutes and striked.

Why aren't any of the war thunder ports all over the steam page getting hit? 🤣

[manic laurel]

don't expect fairness doing bad stuff 🙃 you can report illegal mods too, do your part ✊

[slim jetty]

Don't have to, if you open your eyes itll be right there as soon as you open the workshop

[manic laurel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lapis quiver]

im still waiting on the COD Shadow Company Mod from Jhett to get hit, since he reuploaded my old file yeah i was evil back then lol

[slim jetty]

Yep, they take their time with most stuff

[echo orchid]

was your upload removed for no real reason, that is what you are trying to say?

[slim jetty]

Here comes RHS on their high and mighty horse

[echo orchid]

it's worse than that tbh

it's just me who have most likely hold the record for most DMCA and conversations with Steam's legal

[slim jetty]

Not really something id be waving around as a trophy

Congrats for ruining majority of peoples fun 👍

[crimson ingot]

define majority

[echo orchid]

each with its own i guess, surely the minority of people actually making content (and i don't mean youtube videos here) thanked me.
buuuut, you have no answered my question

[slim jetty]

what is your question

[echo orchid]

#ip_rights_violations message

[slim jetty]

No, that's not what im saying. However, if you have no right over the assets then why are **you **dmcaing them?

Especially if the company has openly stated before that they dont care once there is no monetization

[echo orchid]

i only DMCA the stuff i have IP rights over, no need to worry about that.

[echo orchid]

#ip_rights_violations message
reading this, it seems then what you were trying to say is
my upload was removed due to the fact that i used stollen models i have no IP rights over as the Steam TOS requires, why aren't other thieves spanked as well?

[manic laurel]

(beware of flaming or praising ripping, too)

[echo orchid]

sorry what?

[crimson ingot]

no just asking what kind of majority he means

[echo orchid]

got it :)) his own

[slim jetty]

🤷‍♂️

[echo orchid]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slim jetty]

I know a lot of people that feel the same way as me

There are discords with thousands of members for that purpose because of how 1945 this place is kept.

[manic laurel]

1984*? or do you mean "praising creating people, slamming ripping people"?

[echo orchid]

lol. these lots of people you know are are just as in willing to use content made by other people obtained illicitly? any of these discord servers aimed at fiveM, roblox and similar?

[slim jetty]

No, these discords are strictly arma 3

I'll continue to keep my opinions to myself however as I can already tell its gonna be a outnumber situation of 10 to 1 in here

[manic laurel]

hopefully being right has nothing to do with numbers
thank you for keeping this* opinion to yourself (ensuring you a longer stay on this server)

[elfin heron]

creating people 🤨

[manic laurel]

both ways 😏

mandatory "uwu rawr xd"

[crimson ingot]

Stop Lou! you'll summon Dedmen

[hallow glen]

[slim jetty]

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

🤣

[native narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-shooting-finger-guns-gif-12701136

Yup here we come

[slim jetty]

Give it a rest

[manic laurel]

"lol no"
for someone going all out on the first question, this is quite tame in comparison

[slim jetty]

What's the point?

I forgot that you only accept one point of view, your own 🤣

So having a conversation with any of you regarding this topic is the equivalent of talking to a brick wall

[stiff jasper]

why would anyone listen to you if everything you can offer to a discussion is "Here comes X on their high and mighty horse" or crying about your stolen shit being taken down?

[soft egret]

Why would anyone come here and start a conversation. And then say that having a conversation is like talking to a brick wall. Just boredom?

[stiff jasper]

or siege mentality

(not Siege-A )

[mint ridge]

Ngl rainbow six siege do be like a brick wall 90% of the time

[manic laurel]

this has never been a place to discuss whether or not intellectual property breach was acceptable or not, so there is that

BI's stance is: (try and) protect the creators to encourage mods
that's an official Discord server about a BI game, so… the stance is there and not open to discussion

take it or leave it, literally

[slim jetty]

Because you can't actually have a conversation, that's what I said. Anyone who doesn't adhere to your strict rules gets banned

[paper prawn]

Why would anyone come here to ask why their mod with ripped assets was taken down... sort of like the drug dealers who call the cops cause someone stole their drugs 🤷

[slim jetty]

And here come all the BI meat riders flooding in as per

[manic laurel]

!ban @slim jetty 0 name-calling and IP theft defense, buh-bai

[edgy coral]

*fires them railguns at @slim jetty* Ò_Ó

[manic laurel]

…indeed

[paper prawn]

Welp, that didn't take long 🤣

I do like the idea of PuFu being a meanie though 😉

[manic laurel]

toxic PuFu bullying thieves with his DMCAs!

[paper prawn]

PuFu's the reason why we can't have nice things; no, wait, what? 😛

[elfin heron]

they stole it fair and square!!!

[native narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/rider-horse-riding-cowboys-jon-pardi-country-music-gif-13594721

^ riding off after job well done. Thanks @edgy coral

[edgy coral]

[native narwhal]

its disturbing to know that these muppets congregate in dark corners of Discord. Like leper colonies. @echo orchid i hope i live long enough to see the day where you become even more legendary as a man in the arma community who had not one but two change.org petitions launched against him 😄

[cedar flint]

I am pretty certain this EXACT scenario has happened a few times

Just one of many examples: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23767416.oxford-dealer-rang-police-report-theft-drugs/

[echo orchid]

comment of the day goes to one fellow for this regarding monetization:
So you're going to contribute money to the guys actually use your mods? Do you know what it costs to keep servers going? I host 13x ARMA servers....

[cobalt creek]

"Do you know, how much an 3D-Artist take per hour to create those assets?" 😄

[echo orchid]

😉 he surely doesn't

[vagrant stag]

Any news form legal department about arma 3 project life?

[echo orchid]

you asking someone in particular

[vagrant stag]

asking all the guys that work iin BIS :)

or if there is any information about it

[sleek remnant]

I sent an email to the infringements team mid-June but haven't received anything back from them, and the workshop page is still up. Are there any steps to following up? Thanks.

[elfin heron]

for content you own or someone else owns?

[sleek remnant]

Content someone else owns

[elfin heron]

then nothing really beyond forwarding it to that person too

[jovial thorn]

@vagrant stag I thought they were removed on monetization list? That's about all they can do

[echo orchid]

@jovial thorn false @vagrant stag - you can send a mail for [e-mail] if they are not on approved monetization list but they still use any sort of sale perks system

[iron flame]

Not sure where to ask so.....if I release a mod under apl sa, and someone includes my mod into another mod, pbos only, no modification done to it, does he have to release his mod as apl.sa as well or can I grant him exclusion to share alike? Or does the license not apply?

[carmine folio]

If the content is all yours / you got ownership.
You could give me permission to use your content however you like (i.e like under another license)
If the person doesn't have your permission then he would have follow the license your released it under i.e APL SA

You could also add an additional term to the license if you wanted to exclude the share alike if the mod is unaltered if you wanted to.
This wouldn't break the license restricting additional terms, since you aren't restricting the user rights (seen some mods that aren't aware of this, and add additioanl restrictions to the license).

But its easier & less confusing to just give people permission on case to case basis imo.

[iron flame]

Cheers, I was wondering if I could give permission on a case to case basis, since I licensed it on the bohemia forums as apl.sa, cheers

[weak wing]

Curious, but what mod is this?

[stiff jasper]

why would that matter

[weak wing]

I'm trying to learn and figure which things (mods in this case) are DMCA and which aren't, so my community doesn't have to worry about a mod they'll use.

Not trying to debate here basically, just curious.

[native narwhal]

Mods that break the terms of service and licenses of other mods.

[weak wing]

Ah okay got it! Thanks!

[candid barn]

Why do they still say that they are 'Approved' for monetization http://prntscr.com/9fjzd6 ?

[ionic laurel]

it's a conspiracy

[tender hawk]

cough Didn't see them when I actually checked the approved roster ( https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/approved/arma3 ) unless they're under a different name in said list

[echo orchid]

@candid barn - no one removed their own fucking "we are approved" status from the ones i had removed due to infirgements last week either

[carmine folio]

It would prob help to have last updated Time on ther server approved list. Most of the time i assume the list is outdated

[echo orchid]

nope, the list is always up to date

everything else isn't

[echo orchid]

@coral torrent / @midnight compass - can someone restrict the use of a mod to a certain server and/ or restrict the use of a certain mod for a certain server / community etc via custom license

[midnight compass]

On Arma Reforger?

[echo orchid]

yes

[midnight compass]

FOR ARMA REFORGER:
Yeah but we won't enforce any of that, how they enforce that is up to them (No harmful nor game deteriorating DRMs). We will only enforce IP theft, misuse of derived or copied content, etc

Within reason, if it's linked to paying a license, subscription, etc for the community then banned

[echo orchid]

ok, got it thanks

[faint nacelle]

No he says if paying is involved its instant ban

[lapis quiver]

why do you even care about it ? forward it to the real author and he should claim dmca

[faint nacelle]

been a few days. maybe that conversation dont need digging back up

[vast radish]

I have a quick question: if we don’t use the workshop, are DRM/obfuscations on my mods allowed? (Reforger)

[rustic copper]

DRM on it's own is fine (as mentioned by MarioE), unless it breaks the game in any way for the user.

And since this is also part of the EULA of Reforger itself, it's still not allowed to do anything harmful

[vast radish]

Okay, so if I understand correctly (I don’t want to make any mistakes), I can set up a DRM that doesn’t cause any problems on the client side but prevents the mod from running on the server side?

[rustic copper]

As far as I understand; if your mod is just doing nothing (but the game/server still works) when for example no valid key is present, it should be fine.

[vast radish]

Okay, so I would just need to block the execution of all my scripts if a key or something is missing.

[echo orchid]

#ip_rights_violations message

[rustic copper]

It's something I do in an Arma 3 mod; it will just not execute any scripts if it's missing something only we have at our server.
Which is actually a feature for local usage by our members when using 3den to build missions 😅

[foggy terrace]

what did the creators of 3CB do properly that allowed them not only to re-pack RHS assets but also obfuscate them on top of that? out of curiosity here

[faint nacelle]

You sure they are repacked and not just used as dependency?

like with any of these targeted questions, do you have proof?

[foggy terrace]

no, certainly not sure. but similarly, i know that RHS doesn't appreciate repacks of their work either. i imagine the 3CB people got permission and all that.

particularly, my question is about the obfuscation. i can't tell if we like or dislike it - benefits being it makes it more difficult to steal, etc.

[faint nacelle]

lot of mods obfuscate. not much to it.

but since you claim they have stolen something, you should have proof to back that up

[foggy terrace]

not claiming anything. it was a question of pure curiosity. i think you've answered my question though, that was all i had.

[faint nacelle]

you said they have repacked RHS assets

thats the claim

[foggy terrace]

and i admitted immediately that i'm not sure this is the case. not only that, if i were to "get proof" it would involve somehow de-obfuscating their work, which i imagine is also frowned upon

my assumption was the 3CB creators know the RHS people, are friendly, got all the proper permission

i just was curious about the details on that

[faint nacelle]

why would they need to take some RHS assets since their mod uses RHS as dependency

their mod uses RHS stuff from the original source

[foggy terrace]

yeah, this makes perfect sense. i have no arguments, not making any bold claims

[faint nacelle]

but since you know they obfuscate, what were you trying to take from them

[foggy terrace]

there is absolutely no shortage of information on how 3CB's assets are obfuscated, but again, you've answered my question, and i appreciate that

i'm just a person who plays arma 3. most i've ever made is an antistasi template.

[tulip meadow]

Yes, at least some of the creators of the different packs know each other.
No, there are no repacks.
If there, against my knowledge should be repacks, I am very certain that agreements would be in place but I very much doubt repacks being the case in the first place.

[foggy terrace]

Gotcha, that was basically my question start to finish. Appreciate it!

[native narwhal]

I confirm we have ties with 3CB

[pliant dragon]

Hello!

I was wondering the normal process of what happens when a modder doesn’t know that they are using ripped assets that they purchased.

For an example a modder unknowingly puts a ripped asset into there mod, and them or a community member realizes it’s ripped.

Is it fine if they just remove it and reupload or would the modder need to contact BI and inform them of the issue.

And all of this is ofc before BI would need to take action.

I understand the question is kinda dumb but a person I know has this situation and is overwhelmed and they don’t think there mod will stay up if they remove the asset so I want to give them evidence form a BI rep

(And this is OFC if they aren’t lying about the assets but I don’t think they are)

[elfin heron]

you cant take something down that isnt infringing ip rights

so no, it would not get taken down

[pliant dragon]

Got it thanks!

[tulip meadow]

That is not entirely correct.
We take down things for multiple different reasons, not only for IP right infringement.

[elfin heron]

that wasnt what was asked

[tulip meadow]

If a modder has a mod using assets which he bought which unknowingly were ripped, it indeed is better to remove or replace said asset.

[untold lodge]

bi should contact the modder to make them aware if applicable and remove it if its actually violating things, or you should let the modder aware of it yourself and hope it gets corrected

[tulip meadow]

True. He himself can't take it down or ask for removal. But him passing on information could potentially lead to us taking it down.

[untold lodge]

sure, the uploader could cooperate instead as well

[tulip meadow]

If you care about the mod and you don't want it to be 'yeeted', best way indeed is to contact the modder before anything else, tell him about the issue and maybe even help him getting or creating a replacement model.
As somebody with roots in Arma modding I honestly believe that adjusting to the rules ||which based on the perspective sometimes can seem very restricticv, not going to deny that|| and helping people who are not within the rules yet, is certainly part of what modding is about.
The worst thing that can happen is that tens or hundreds of hours of work just get wasted because of one or two assets and/or the person is getting blocked from the workshop when it is preventable by adjusting parts of the creation.

[untold lodge]

mhm

[rustic copper]

In my unit we also have a couple of mods which have questionable content, and I usually tell people to not rely on them too much because they can be removed, and in some cases I send a message to the uploader on the workshop to verify the content and/or warn for possible DMCA's/removal.

[native narwhal]

it really should not be so difficult. Ultimately when you put something on the workshop you take responsibility to ensure due diligence. When you publish you consent that you have full rights to do so. If you are putting questionable things into it you should not be surprised that you are fully responsible for it. The rights of the people who's original work is being ripped must be protected. Claim to ignorance cannot be a defense because you can also rarely prove that the person truly didn't know.

[pliant dragon]

I’d like to clarify I have no say in what this person dose, but thank you for your responses.

The main reason I posted my question is because I don’t think they fully understand the system, and thought all of there work was gone if they reupload it without the ripped assets, however I can only try to help them I can not make a choice for them.

(And the moder is aware of the asset)

[tulip meadow]

If an issue is rectified/solved, especially before it even gets to BI, we usually don't chase it.
Mistakes can happen.

If he doesn't rectify it, please let me/us know and we handle it.
But I always hope it doesn't even come to that.
Thank you.

[pliant dragon]

Thanks for the response, tbh I don’t know what there going to do but the mod is till down so idk, all I know is they probably just need a break RN after having worked so hard on their first major mod and losing the majority of it due to being scammed on a site they were told they can trust.(I know it’s not necessarily a scam and you need to be observant but from a new modder that’s probably what it feels like)

[sweet gulch]

curious but do any ip rights violation reports actually have any action taken upon them?

have had a few guys now report some mods using ripped content and they have been on the workshop for months

[jaunty steeple]

I think it's funny that my latest mod hasn't even been out for a week and already has a reupload

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3321055148

(My mod is under APL-ND, for context)

[molten sinew]

I noticed this author's addons are very likely ripped models from War Thunder, I suppose that's something that's not allowed?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3317407146

Examples [War Thunder and the mod in Arma 3]

[molten kraken]

If you have proof (not just gut instinct) send it to the email in this chennel description

[faint nacelle]

the pictures are the proof. @molten sinew you probably need to get in contact with Gaijin too as they need to take action against it

[molten sinew]

Right

[viscid hinge]

probably are. some of these models are on sketchfab

war thunder rips

[faint nacelle]

not probably its clear as day from the pictures they are same models

[viscid hinge]

oh yes, sorrry, just wrote probably out of habit

[lapis quiver]

they didnt even bothered to adjust the textures to arma lol

[untold lodge]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ah yes, missing bumpmaps and stuff it looks like

[carmine folio]

War thunder ZTZ in Reforger

From DARKGRU modding channel

think this might be a direct model rip

[proud bolt]

No way lmao

[soft egret]

Was already reported a couple hours ago, and they instantly took it down

#1196525781254426634 message

[carmine folio]

still up in their discord

i think they still intend on releasing it, plus theyve used content they've been told to remove before

even claimed one of their devs made it

also some gear in their RU overhaul pack does NOT belong to them and they have been informed to remove it numerous times

stuff like these gorka suits, the 3d artist has reached out multiple times to get removed

modeler still has the quad versions and original files if proof was needed too

these AK's too, im sure i could find more. its just aggravating when they are explicitly told to remove this stuff.

[tulip meadow]

He should contact us if need be

[swift axle]

Told to remove assets that were never published anywhere prior, models that were willingly given/made for them? When this individual was part of their staff team?

[lapis quiver]

who is the 3d artist ?

[carmine folio]

doesnt matter the purpose behind making them, they arent yours and you have been asked kindly multiple times to remove them.

Ares has been DM'd multiple times atleast

[carmine folio]

dont think mario ever reached back out

[swift axle]

The conversation with bohemia has already been had from the DG end, no action by either DG or Bohemia was needed. 🙂

[mighty badge]

just post proofs here, more public attention -> greater chances of stuff getting removed

[tulip meadow]

No, that's not how it works.
That's just a witch hunt, nothing else.
Tell the creator to contact me and I happily pass it on directly.

[quasi loom]

@tulip meadow i am the 3D artist in question and would like to talk with you when you have time

[fierce wagon]

How long does it take the infringements team to deal with a report? send a report on January 23

[elfin heron]

couple decades

[coral torrent]

We typcially do not respond to any reports unless we need further information. They will be processed if t here is something we need to take action on

[fierce wagon]

ur part of infringements team ? If so, the report would not take you that long to validate and take actions, since it uses your pbo obfuscation

[coral torrent]

"We" as in Bohemia Interactive. Infringements are handled by the legal department.

[rancid pine]

Yes and the modeler was paid for his time and made a fair amount of money modeling these assetts. I would be more than happy to send receipts and be refunded the money sent to him for his Blender work while with us! IF he refunds the funds we used to purchase the 3-d work from him then we will stop using whatever models needed. but he was more than compensated for his work legally by BI terms. So i can start preparing receipts for refunds and present it.

[fierce wagon]

Does this legal department you speak of exist or do they have a long vacation period?

[terse current]

These assets are quite literally by law my property bud.

If a modeler quit Bohemia today does he get to take the assets he made for bohemia with him?

Here's some reciepts for you. I also have the source files this gentleman is claiming rights to.

[quasi loom]

none of my models have ever been available for purchase, there was only one time i did commission work on 3d models and texturing for you and that was for sunburst and the power armours, every other transaction was under the impression of donation as i have my donation links in my discord bio, and i never gave permission to use my AK pack that i created as a test to see if i could optimise many different variants of AKs into 3 textures, as well as working on my balaclava and berets that were mad for my personal mod based in 1970s Northern Ireland, the Stealth Blackhawk was meant for me to practice my development of helicopters as it was my second one i ever worked on, i have all original files of textures and models and can prove all assets were made by and belong to me as my intellectual property

[terse current]

I'm not reading all of that.

[quasi loom]

the textures are mine for those, as i have stated in the past

[quasi loom]

you do not have permission to use my models

[terse current]

Sorry to inform you but these are my models.

And my textures.

[quasi loom]

no they are not, these are mine and i have the master files

i will positively show them to anyone that is willing to see

[terse current]

If you would like to persue legal conflict I'd be happy to get you in touch with our lawyer.

[elfin heron]

If no license was given when you purchased the assets you in fact do not own them

[terse current]

Because as it appears Bohemia disagrees with you. Otherwise they would have been taken down.

[quasi loom]

no license was given, and was not purchasable

[elfin heron]

Then there is no permission to use them

[terse current]

The fact of the matter is that I own the liscense.

[quasi loom]

you do not

[terse current]

You do not know what you are talking about.

Neither of you do.

[elfin heron]

What license were they under

[quasi loom]

i do, because i made this stuff

i literally have the master files

and the texture files, before they were even exoprted as textures

[terse current]

Well you keep contacting Bohemia Legal with your right hand and shit in your left and see what wish happens first.

Have a fantastic day.

[elfin heron]

So yeah definitely don't have permission then

[terse current]

I don't need permission to upload my property.

[elfin heron]

@quasi loom submit a DMCA and leave it at that

[terse current]

He has multiple times.

[elfin heron]

Answer my question

[terse current]

You are nobody.

[elfin heron]

😂

Answer the question dude

It's not hard

[quasi loom]

it is not your property, it is stolen

[elfin heron]

If you've got permission you'll know what license they were purchased under

If you don't know, you don't have permission

[quasi loom]

you are uploading stolen assets and textures

[terse current]

You are mentally challenged.

[elfin heron]

This is hilarious

[quasi loom]

they were not purchased because you cannot purchase them

these are my private models and textures

[terse current]

Here's your original liscense for the Gorka top.

This is not Provo's work.

[quasi loom]

the textures are

[terse current]

The textures and updated are my property uploaded under APL-ND.

[quasi loom]

the textures are my work and i have the master file for them

[elfin heron]

That wasn't that hard was it

Who do the textures in use come from

[quasi loom]

i would like them compared to my textures then

[terse current]

I don't understand why any of this is your business.

So i'm blocking you.

[elfin heron]

take it to DMs or allow people who know what they're actually talking about to deal with it

Given how intolerable you already seem, I'd much rather you do the former

[quasi loom]

i am opening up the master file and i am going to show the screenshot posted earlier compared to my texture master file

[terse current]

@quasi loom
I reccommend you email Bohemia Legal or directly message MarioE. They take infringements seriously and they do get taken down. If your claim is legitimate(Which it is not) the work would have been removed as I know you have contacted them before.

[elfin heron]

BI Legal is not a benchmark you should be using for whether or not claims are legitimate

[terse current]

Pure and simply. I would like this to stop. There's nothing entertaining about a stolen valor twink without a job in the ghetto talking shit on the internet. You're a nuesence I would like to see go back to your own corner of asking AFO for $30,000 to work as a modder for them for a year.

[tulip meadow]

Oy!

[terse current]

I can tell you with full promise I personally will not put up with this behavior much longer.

[elfin heron]

Yea <@&105621371547045888> this has just decended into personal attacks from them

[terse current]

You have the power to make this stop. Your legal department ruled in our favor and your discord continues to allow this slander.

[quasi loom]

pay close attention to the camo pattern

left in my master file

[manic laurel]

#ip_rights_violations message #ip_rights_violations message
@terse current you can defend yourself without attacking someone, so keep it cool.

[terse current]

I shouldn't have to defend myself.

Your company ruled in our favor.

[elfin heron]

Don't forget #ip_rights_violations message #ip_rights_violations message

[terse current]

I don't understand why I'm being drug here to read this shit if the case was closed.

[quasi loom]

here as well, they seem to match up perfectly

[manic laurel]

first one I linked, second one is not nice but not an attack
anyway

[elfin heron]

Ope wrong link anyway

[elfin heron]

You were also not brought into the conversation and inserted yourself into it

You've got like nothing to do with what was being asked

[gusty isle]

hmm

[rancid pine]

I mean all im gonna say is if we werent allowed to use them how did we get access to them.....

we cant steal them off someones computer

[terse current]

Today I've witnessed your modstaff ban someone for posting "ReHorser Studios(RHS)"
Not even close to what this gentleman has done for the past few months.

[tulip meadow]

Listen up lads and lasses.
It's enough, from all sides.
I don't care about opinions, allegations, questions or whatever.
Deliver me facts via DM and we go from there.
What is happening here is laughable.

[terse current]

Thank you Bob.

[gusty isle]

you heard the gentleman, mutes incoming otherwise

[rancid pine]

and my bad i sent that before your message

[gusty isle]

DM it if you feel it's important

[tulip meadow]

Mortalis, if you got it send by the creator, feel free to drop me proof including clear statements that you are allowed to use it via DM.
Thank you.

[manic laurel]

@bright maple stop. see #ip_rights_violations message

[bright maple]

my bad. But i see the clear point got deleted. cool

[swift axle]

Which you freely gave over to be used when you was part of the staff team. 🙂

[terse current]

WCS Headstaff on a self admitted alt account started this today.

Beautiful to see our good buddy 5.56 feeling threatened enough on a Wednesday morning to start shit.

[quasi loom]

i never worked for anybody other than myself m8, im a freelance 3d artist

[soft egret]

Alt account on this discord? Is that admit to that visible here?

[terse current]

I'll go look for it. It's in our discord.

It's a two month old message on a banned account so no promises.

[soft egret]

Unless one of our moderators can see it live there, we probably cannot take it as proof.
We don't allow alt Accounts on here, so if that person were on here with two accounts we'd have to remove one

[swift axle]

You was part of the DG team, and freely gave them use of these assets "m8".

[bright maple]

I have a direct message from you confirming you WERE part of the dev team, and that you were removed from modeling and put on sizing

@soft egret is there a single point of contact i can submit my ss of messages confirming provo was once a part of our dev team to?

[soft egret]

Considering the history of DG, we will most likely not trust screenshots, on the discord moderation side.

If Provo does file a copyright report thing, then BI will contact the owner of the workshop item (via email), and you can solve it there and then.

If he does not file a report, you can safely ignore whatever he says.

[bright maple]

The history of DG?

[soft egret]

Yep.

[bright maple]

Care to expound more? Or are you just going to call a spade a spade and say I'm lying outright instead of beating around the bush

[soft egret]

No.
Not saying you're lying. Just that we most likely won't trust screenshots.

[swift axle]

Video enough proof?

🙂

[terse current]

The reality is that you can delete and edit discord messages so only a select few items on discord would be reliable.

[swift axle]

video proof fine?

[terse current]

Anyways. I searched for you Ded. When he was banned all of his message history on our discord was deleted.

[soft egret]

I don't know. Might be.
We'll judge on the contents whether we can trust it

[terse current]

All I have is his ban date. 07/30/24

Which is useless lmao

[bright maple]

Not entirely, mentions or keyword searches with "provo" in any chat within our discord are there.

[terse current]

I was referencing the Squirrelin alt situation.

[swift axle]

you want the video slapped in here or you want a DM, or ticket?

[soft egret]

Ticket is always best

[swift axle]

bet

[terse current]

If you're referencing the Provo situation send it to Ares.

He is in direct line right now.

[swift axle]

bet

[terse current]

This has already caused to much of a headache for everyone without Bohemia having to put up with "Darkgru" at the center of childish shit for the 3rd day in a row.

[soft egret]

With how many issues you guys get. You should get written permission for every asset and have it on hand to slap it into people's face who say "you can't use that asset". So you don't even need to discuss about things like this.
But probably the people will just say "you faked that".. ugh.
Blockchain! 😄 (no but kinda seriously tho.. ugh it'd be so terrible)

Actually there is a easy solution for that.
Put the permissions on GitHub. Make the people who give you permission, commit the file by themselves, in a signed commit.

That way no-one can say you faked it. Because it'll be their GitHub accounts signature on the permission.

[tulip meadow]

Regarding the Provo vs Ares case, I am currently in contact with both parties.
So if there is anything I should know, DM me.
Thank you.

[fierce wagon]

#ip_rights_violations message @soft egret ur the man for this case, the one and only, the legend

[soft egret]

I am not part of the team no.

[terse current]

Part of the consequences of being a virgin studio with limited experience.

[delicate hamlet]

That is actually a really good solution. I've done this in the past to prevent people from "withdrawing" assets out of spite from mod groups by requiring assets to be "donated" into the projects. Maybe low and obnoxious, yes, but quite effective.

[crude trail]

contracts baybeeeee

make a basic generic “u give stuff to us no take backs if u throw a hissy fit”

[soft egret]

That works. Until the guy that supposidely signed it says "No you faked my signature"

[crude trail]

then u ignore him until he’s able to provide some proof that he faked it, or the fact that the only way on the team is to sign it

also tbh

no one’s getting a GitHub commit

from every author

[delicate hamlet]

I actually have a pretty extensive custom license for actual collab projects I do with a couple of units, but it basically sums up as you say.

[bright maple]

Could do a docusign or something

[deft mural]

All of this is needlessly excessive. If you're getting to the point where you're arguing that a signature is fake and someone is clearly lying, then it's heading to arbitration or a court - everyone's going to lose a lot of money over a trivial mod.

[worthy quartz]

^

This whole thing is really blowing up then what it really needs to be and is it really this much work at the end of the day

[delicate hamlet]

As silly as it might be, there are individuals and teams that do worry about the integrity and overall quality of their mods/work, since they usually become portfolio material that is uses to trampoline into the videogame industry.

Imagine spending X years of your life working on something for free for a game you enjoy only for it to be claimed by someone else who profits/attributes it for itself and there is no way for you to prove you are the rightful owner of the content, or that by someone else influence you get griefed into a chopped up content that becomes partially or totally unusable. It's not like the binding conditions claim the content as the mod own property, but usually as irrevocable donations into a cause that have to be properly attibuted anyway.

[deft mural]

Of course, people get attached to ownership - very human trait, but in the end, unless you want to spend 20 grand fighting in arbitration, your going to have to live with theft on some level, even with all the legal hoops you could ever think of.

Thankfully the devs will help you keep it out of Reforger, but their powers only reach so far.

[native narwhal]

yes, and reseller websites also usually take down ip theft. No normal operating business wants to be associated with this kind of stuff under normal circumstances. So reporting is the least we can do to make it not worth the while of people that do this.

some people tend to think that whatever they can find online for download they can automatically do anything they want with it. Usually this is people that have not spent any effort actually creating something in their life. Some people say "well becuase your a modder in spirit of community everything is opensource just let em do whatever with your work you're not getting paid for it" and I'd say its even more wrong than anything. When i make something on my free time and for free I bond with that creation emotionally even on a stronger level than if it was my job. When a COD model gets ripped to another game you risk getting in trouble with Activision but rarely the actual modeler that made it gives too much of a sh*t because they already got paid for it. As a modder it triggers me way more because you are stealing something of MINE and not something of my COMPANY's.

[deft mural]

And that's the underlying problem, the emotional investment. It causes impassioned responses.

Anyways. People have a right to defend their IP, but the practicality of defending your IP is difficult.

[faint nacelle]

Still it should be encouraged.

[deft mural]

Far be it, for me to give legal advice, but having no profit mod makers trying to win a 20k+ court case, trying to prove damages, It's not very advisable.

But to each their own. That was just the content of my post

[faint nacelle]

Well on other hand. If the makers do nothing the thieves win.

Then makers stop making

And there are no mods

So don't support thieves. Support the people who make stuff.

[deft mural]

Makers will never stop making, but everything has to be tempered with reality. Just because people pirate movies and books and everything else - they haven't. All just magically disappeared.

[faint nacelle]

That's business

Not mods

We've lost many makers in this community already

Eventually we run out of skilled people

Saying mod makers just got to take it is shit thing to say

[deft mural]

I see what you mean. If we're talking non-profit. Generally, people do non-profit out of passion and desire. And perhaps, thieving may tamper that desire.

But I think you'll find they'll be replaced by new people with new desires.

I haven't been here long, but I would argue that loss of modders has more to do with the need for an audience and desires not being met.

Some maslov hierarchy of needs stuff.

But anyways this is all off topic.

[faint nacelle]

Mod maker who does stuff for audience burns out like a match.

That's different loss

[native narwhal]

noone is going to go to court most likely, but the arbitration from authorities like BI has been instrumental in preventing turning Reforger to Roblox

[native narwhal]

no they have not, however IP rights groups and world legislation almost unanimously condemned it and pushed countless resources into fighting piracy. If nothing was being done, surely most of them WOULD have left.

[hallow glen]

Why would I need to prove damages?
If it's free mod that you took and reuploaded, no damages happened. Maybe loss of few subs in stats, but whatever.
It does not change the fact that you broke the license and thus the law.

[rustic copper]

Biggest problem is that some of those laws don't apply (or are ignored) by specific countries, and even if you would win a court case it would still have no impact whatsoever...

Not to mention the ignorance of people themselves believing they can just do whatever they want because it has little to no consequences...

[hearty vault]

Post your work in places where people can’t download it anonymously, maybe a new platform for hosting could be created surrounding the idea, where you serialize every file so you can trace back who purchased it originally from the platform, same would go for free models with licensing.

It should be structured in a way that in order for the file to leave the site it needs to know the identity of the person downloading it

So if someone does use it in an illegal way, it can be traced to exactly to who originally downloaded it and in the TOS it should state they hold liability if their file gets pirated

You can only secure it to a point and the internet will always have piracy unless everything can be tracked and traced to its origin

Instead of relying on people to follow the rules, structure them in a way where they are nearly impossible to break. “Program the functionality of the rules into the game”

[sweet gulch]

I agree with this completely

As a maker myself seeing all the ported/ripped content lately not getting shot down has been urging me to stop because why make when people can just rip/port

A big waste of my time imo

[rustic copper]

But even then; person A downloads your content, and you logged it, person B gets a copy from A (which is required to use a mod), person B rips the content and puts it online, person C buys that content and can claim he/she owns it...

And there's nothing person you can do about it

[hearty vault]

Person a is now liable for anything person b does

So either they get punished or give up who they gave it to

[rustic copper]

But how do you know? Unless you use license keys which need to be shared, which is a pain to manage and impossible to do with mods (which again need to be shared with all people who use it)

[hearty vault]

Bi seems to have it halfway figured out with reforger workshop

[rustic copper]

even then... they can impossibly know who ripped the content based on the downloads

[hearty vault]

More reason to do a showcase here when you release a mod

So everyone knows it’s yours

[rustic copper]

that doesn't make sense...
not to mention it also applies to Arma 1/2/3 mods, or to/from other games

[hearty vault]

If u post it here at the same time u publish to workshop, and then somebody copies it and posts it, it’s extremely obvious

[rustic copper]

As if some random kid from location X is gonna care you posted it on this Discord... All they know now is where to find more stuff to rip 🤷

[hearty vault]

If everyone did that then nobody could claim they made it forst

[hearty vault]

Are we talking about mods or models I’m confused

[rustic copper]

it's not about who made it first... it's about who owns the permission to use it

[rustic copper]

both... since models are in mods

[hearty vault]

Yeah but if u were the first to post. Then any post after you is a copy

[hearty vault]

If you made it first you own it.

I think that’s what this is about

[rustic copper]

again... if you download/buy something from a website, you should be able to expect it's either original content; and not ripped from someone else.

so just because I bought it first doesn't mean I own it...

[hearty vault]

We keep jumping from model websites to workshop

Model sites have nothing to do with mods

I’m talking about ip

Buying a model and claiming you own it is partially true

[rustic copper]

workshop; not possible to track who ripped stuff
shops/buyer; not possible to verify legitimacy
creator; impossible to track who download/ripped it

it's all related

[hallow glen]

Most of the case you own the license*

[hearty vault]

Rights and ownership differ a lot between sites and games

[hallow glen]

We don't own anything anymore in this modern era

[rustic copper]

except when the person giving the license does not have the license to give that

[hearty vault]

So two people download the same model from a website and they both make the same mod

Whose mod is it?

[rustic copper]

And where is the model from?
Original or ripped?

Because I'm talking about the latter

[hearty vault]

Let’s say it’s ripped but there’s no way to prove it

How do you deal with the two modders

Is it the sites fault for hosting ripped content? How do they find out the origin if so?

[rustic copper]

and that's exactly what I'm talking about... it's impossible to keep track of that, or ignored by people/laws, and therefor a massive problem for the community

[hearty vault]

Yeah and we just circled back around to the beginning of this

So essentially if you are first to post it looks a lot more legitimate then If you are the second one

Even if the second one is the true owner

Optics plays a huge part in all this

[rustic copper]

so "I was first" is more valid than "I actually made it"

not a great solution...

[hearty vault]

Well that’s how things work in most modding communities

Not saying it’s right

But it’s real

[rustic copper]

in most modding communities it's normal to rip content from others...

and if that's going to be the new normal for Arma/Enfusion I will stop making mods

[hearty vault]

2% of the people in this discord actually create stuff from nothing

[rustic copper]

as a lot already did before me

[hearty vault]

98% just adds mods to their server or rips stuff they like

[rustic copper]

but I'm pretty sure that 2% will leave as well if it would be "allowed" to rip stuff, and then it won't survive another 10 years

[hearty vault]

For sure

The only reason people play arma is because of the mods

I mean look at Dayz it was a mod to begin with

[rustic copper]

So instead of that; BI and we should figure out a solution which makes it possible to make mods without having to worry about legal stuff

[deft mural]

Well, that is the current state of affairs. You don't have to worry about the legal stuff, It's only if you want to worry about the legal stuff.

It's only up to you to enforce your own IP rights.

[rustic copper]

aka allow ripping

[deft mural]

Even though copyright infringement happens immediately, It's only a crime if you choose to enforce it.

[hearty vault]

Make a stand-alone launcher and host the mods yourself

🙂

[rustic copper]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

[deft mural]

One can just read this area and find out why they will never be a " If you make mods, it's public for everyone else to grow and learn from ".

[rustic copper]

I read it as "I don't have skills, so just steal from others, and they can deal with it"

[hallow glen]

A3Sync exists, so?

[hearty vault]

Mods still hosted by steam

[hallow glen]

You still have to get the mods on the clients PC... Thus can be copied.

with A3Sync?

[deft mural]

😂 I mean that's how humans grow and learn.

[hearty vault]

Pretty sure no

[hallow glen]

No, mods are hosted by whoever is hosting the A3Sync repo

[hearty vault]

Ah ok

[rustic copper]

Except they learn nothing by just copy&paste

[karmic narwhal]

dedmen pbo encryption maybe ? so we wouldnt need to pay for obfuscation services that not protect at all the content just make it harder to be ripped

[hearty vault]

Haven’t been on a3 in a long time

[hearty vault]

Chatgpt

[hallow glen]

you can't load client side mods without being able to read them - thus loading them from your drive/network stream...
And now you can rip them from the games memory...

[hearty vault]

Ez

[karmic narwhal]

?¿

[hearty vault]

For obfuscation

[hallow glen]

obfuscation is no help, all of them are broken

[karmic narwhal]

wtf are u talking

[deft mural]

That would be the most extreme but the most protected. However, it would pretty much nuke the modding Community. And eventually it would be cracked.

[hallow glen]

move it to #other_ip_topics ?

[lapis quiver]

Import still is work

[manic laurel]

so is lockpicking, and yet, they choose to use these talents for creativity destruction

[faint nacelle]

if all this energy used to say mod makers should just take it was put to pressure thieves to bugger off we would have much more cleaner and safer space to make stuff

[mint cedar]

Frankly I look at some various mods to figure out stuff anyway. I don't see it as stealing, but when you figure stuff out from other peoples work, then it helps. But if it's not setup to not be looked at, then how are you going to learn? I figured out pylon weapons from looking at RHS and the MELB mods. Up until then I had no clue what to do. I figure as long as you either mention it to give some credit then it should be fine. But then again we're copying from A3 configs to add stuff as well. So how are we supposed to learn if the game tools gives us the capability to look at other configs? Somehow you won't get much if you do all of the work yourself. You'll never figure out what ccapabilities if you try and do it all by yourself, when you don't know anything in the first place.

[rustic copper]

My mods are open source and available on GitHub, so you're free to learn from it. And so are many other mods.
But that doesn't mean people should just copy&paste everything and claim it as their own, or pretend it's "fair use". Because then nobody gains from it.

[mint cedar]

Agreed and you still have to make it "yours" somehow anyway. I think when you steal configs outright and call it yours, bad juju and the rest of the nastiness.

[faint nacelle]

nearly all examples can be found from vanilla too. theres only some fancy solution somemods make that are not present in vanilla

[rustic copper]

And of course did I also look at other mods; configs, scripts, build tools, etc.
However I took the time to learn from it and make my own unique stuff with it.

What I see happen a lot is people just taking it, usually without even knowing what, and then present it as their own.
Hell, people even asked me how to rip my own mod 🤦‍♂️

[deft mural]

Lol.

[paper prawn]

Like CBA and ACE that show you how to properly code in ARMA 3?

Unlike vanilla 😉

[copper ruin]

@tulip meadow I sent you a friend request bc I cant message you, I have an IP infringement question

[midnight compass]

workshop; not possible to track who ripped stuff
If you are talking about AR, we have a piracy system that allows us to check on that.

[midnight compass]

I would suggest that you avoid everything that anyone else says from the community regarding direction of the workshop, what is allowed or even IP. As it is always misleading or just plain wrong.

As for who owns an asset and such, it has nothing to do with who published it first. It has to do with who actually made it and holds the license, or rights to the license

And this dispute is to be handled by you, similar to how other services do. Place the DMCA or whatever, gets taken down and resolution is up to you and the reported user.

We have nothing to do there, other than just enforcing the DMCA or general report. And removing any penalization if it was not true or amend it if some agreement was found.

[rustic copper]

I was talking about Arma in general, although in my specific case it's an Arma 3 mod. Which is currently being handled by Valve through DMCA's (and being brought up here by the other party).

[midnight compass]

Well, arma 3 rules and handling is not the same as AR

So you can't talk of the company as a whole, or franchise as a whole

[rustic copper]

It would be very impressive if BI would be able to identify which person downloaded and ripped content, and then sold it at an external shop; which is then bought by a third person and implements it in an Arma mod again... (and yes, that is with a bit of sarcasm here, because we both know that is impossible)
Because this is how the most complex situations happen, not the straight reuploads, which obviously is (relatively easy to detect)

[midnight compass]

Even then, it's not up to us to do that verification

[rustic copper]

I never said so, nor require that feature to be build by BI.

My comment was about the fact that it's near impossible to do it, especially by BI (either on an external workshop or an in-house version)

[midnight compass]

The way it works is:
1.- We provide a distribution service, where you agree that you will and are sure that whatever you published is in proper rights.
2.- We agree to honor that agreement with you, and that if you fail to comply there will be some penalization.
3.- Content is hosted under that agreement and understanding.
4.- Your content is not licensed properly, infringing some rights.
5.- Someone reports it.
6.- Action gets taken according to the agreement (EULA and ToU)

You accepted that it was your responsability to know that the content you posted is in accordance to the EULA and ToU, which includes not infringing IP rights.

And our responsability is to take action when a report comes through

[rustic copper]

I know... not sure where you're trying to go here

[midnight compass]

The comment about us going out of our way to find infringements, upon great lengths for it

Or other people that have demanded us to for example ask the IP holders of Fallout for permission to use their IP in mods in the game.

same thing gets asked over and over

[rustic copper]

The comment explained that it's impossible to do that, not to blame BI for not having the tools to do it

especially for the creator

[midnight compass]

But I am also saying for everyone else that was in the conversation, not only you

I only replied to you directly 😅

[rustic copper]

I was soo confused...

[paper prawn]

Agree completely, though I for one try to be fair. Couple of questions: (1) are the APL licenses going to be updated to take into account the new workshop - for example APL-ND allowing people to post an APL-ND mod from someone else with no changes? and (2) any answer on the use of ARMA 3 OST in a Reforger mod as per the question in my recent DM?

[coral torrent]

Reg. 1: No the APL and APL-ND will not be updated, we can't. Existing license terms have to stay. If anything we might offer a new arma specific license to suit the needs more but you are always free to set all rights reserved as your license text.

[crystal geode]

I have a question regarding a email I recieved is there someone i can speak to

[coral torrent]

Sure shoot me a DM and I'll forward it internally if needed

[pale leaf]

can I do the same? I also got the same email

[slate token]

another War thunder reap https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3321133334

[elfin heron]

report to email in channel topic

just blindly posting here does nothing but draw attention to it from those who will use it maliciously

[paper prawn]

Reporting to email in channel topic is just as effective 😛

[rustic copper]

Perhaps sending an email to whoever made / owns War Thunder 🤷

[loud shell]

How to find Arma 3 WT Rips..

Step One: Look for excessive edge wear textures

[frosty charm]

the snail unbothered by it

[lapis quiver]

Ban4na first making a local copy before reporting it to get it taken down

[manic laurel]

that's… non-constructive at best?

[minor compass]

I'm getting into modding and while researching about it i went into this rabbit hole of ip rights and i have a couple of questions before i do anything more stupid

1. According to BI Tools IP agreement i'm not allowed to Buy/Sell P3D's, PBO's, PAA's, if a person bought a PBO, what are the consequences? (not me)
2. In case a person bought the model (.obj) can that person integrate it into the game? and if the file is modified can that person foward/allow that file to be used by others? (the person that sold the mod bought the model from someone else)

All this because a friend bought "access?" to a vehicle mod (.PBO) with the promise of updates and stuff, after not getting any updates on the mod that person sent me the mod files to modify it for them because it wasn't working like they wanted, i asked if it was theirs, they said they paid for it and i went for it, while doing it i found out how they "bought" the vehicle (the access and promises i mentioned earlier) and i just found out the person they bought the mod from got banned from Reforger for breaking TOS on selling/buying, i went reading the BI IP stuff and found myself here, am i f'd?

More into the mod they "bought", the person was selling the access to their mod, whoever paid more got access to more variants of the mod and it was all shady and stuff, you gotta have a .pbo that is a key for it to work

what do i do? i got into modding for fun and learning and i got myself into this mess

in all this
I didn't buy/sell/monetise anything
I did modify whatever they sent me (as i thought if they bought it legitimately)
I didn't ask to get credited as i was doing it for "fun" and to learn how to mod a vehicle
I didn't know you couldn't buy mods in ArmA 3 previous to doing all that

is it ok to just jump out of the boat?

[soft egret]

1. The consequences usually discord/forums/steam workshop bans for the seller.
   If the buyer uses it privately, not much consequences for them. If they redistribute EULA violating material, it might be taken down from workshop, if someone looks for it and finds it.
   But they open themselves up to be scammed, and if they do they will receive zero support for it as they weren't allowed to pay money in the first place.

2. Everything there depends on the terms/license of the model that was sold. If the license allows all that, then you can do that, if it doesn't, then you can't.
   In general, you need permission to modify things, if you don't have it, then you don't,

to a vehicle mod
Many of these mods are ripped from other games like forza, so you'd be in possession of stolen content. Redistributing is not allowed, no matter how you got it.

Reforger specifically, such "paid content" can be flagged (automated system), and banned once it shows up somewhere else, so if you upload it to the workshop, you risk getting banned.

With the way you acquired it, I'm quite sure you do not have the license/permission to modify and redistribute that content.
You most likely didn't pay for the content, but instead paid for a license to use it.

Its Arma, not ArmA.

[minor compass]

We did find the 3D in one of those 3D markets, it seems to be original, not ripped

[soft egret]

If they bought it from that market, would they have bought it under a license that gives them permission to re-sell it? Unlikely, usually people who sell 3D models want people to buy from them, not have their customers re-sell it for cheaper.

[minor compass]

i'll check

so it's a no no

well if i can just jump out of the boat, i'll do that

gonna be more careful on what i mod next time

[steady adder]

Fair play to you for doing the right thing when you found out, shows good character. 👏

[red drum]

Might I strongly suggest sinking the boat too? Delete all files related to it

[finite crescent]

i am not sure about this mod pack here but its used CBA Bornholm AiA TP and a lot of other mods without giving any credtis to the Original Authors http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=555333443

and if i see it right he try to build up a Shop on the website

[molten geyser]

Wish it eas easier to understand this stuff. I had permission to make my mod and it still got banned. I'd love to know what specifically caused them to be banned. Hours of work just gone. Depressing and makes me want to quit the game.

I put USMC ranks on patches and I also made some silly ones in canva, I don't see what was breached.

Incredibly hard to play by the rules when I don't even know what rule I broke.

[stiff jasper]

why wouldn't you just ask the RHS devs?

@native narwhal lookie

[molten geyser]

Cause idk if it was Bohemia or them and I didn't really wanna point it at them cause I got permission from them.

Guess let's see

Clarify what it was in the emails maybe? I got more of a lecture than an explanation from this email :/

[faint nacelle]

Next step is to wait for clarification.

[stiff jasper]

BI takes down mods but the authors report infrigements. If your mod was indeed just a set of patches and you neither included RHS source files nor broke their "code of conduct", perhaps it was just a mistake. Shit happens, just have to be patient

[nimble gyro]

Only people who can give that clarification would be the RHS folks, they filed the DMCA to have this removed.

Wait patiently and one of them should get back to you.

[molten geyser]

Clarify what it was in the emails maybe? I got more of a lecture than an explanation from this email :/

[native narwhal]

read the bottom of the EULA

https://docs.rhsmods.org/rhs-status-quo-user-documentation/arma-reforger/rhs-status-quo/eula

[deft mural]

Or in plain English you could say " because you're a member of the prohibited group, we nailed you with a dmca after previously giving you permission not knowing this"

[molten geyser]

Alright I thought I actually broke the rules. It's just yalls drama. I thought 4MMR was separate from that but I guess we are in the umbrella.

Dissapointed.

[native narwhal]

what r u talking about

[molten geyser]

Thanks for I guess clarifying. I would have appreciated a message so I could have just taken it down and not gotten a strike.

Yeah but 4MMR is it's own group we joined with them as partners. We have been around for 13 years since bf3... its a different group though at the end of the day. Same team I guess though so I see. When we got permission we were not apart of them.

We even have a separate mod team.

I'm done filling this chat. Still incredibly dissapointed tbh. Such a silly thing. Take care y'all.

[nimble gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-the-office-steve-carrell-yikes-cringe-gif-6056240

So double whammy, he is prohibited from using the mod in the EULA, which I am not sure is entirely enforceable to begin with; is using RHS for 4MMR and then gets permission from Soul which is then revoked when the mod came out. (Not sure the logistics of this.)

This is a mess lol.

and ontop of that is given a strike on the Workshop after obtaining permission

[native narwhal]

RHS mod is ND by default. We clearely state that we reserve the right to DMCA any derivative. We choose to tolerate ones that follow a few simple rules

[deft mural]

I was merely commenting on the "read the manual" response that's generally not helpful to anyone.

[native narwhal]

? why? its written as you say in plain English

[rancid pine]

no wonder this game is dying

[nimble gyro]

Because shit like this happens

You verbally and explicitly gave him permission to do so

and then a day later turn around and DMCA his content

[rancid pine]

Just classic RHS anymore man dont think too much about it

[deft mural]

Because people are having a conversation, asking questions, and if the response is " Let me Google that for you" that really doesn't further the conversation.

You do you. To me it's apathetic behavior.

[rancid pine]

guys just leave it be this is just who they are anymore

[nimble gyro]

It was in plain english when you told him yes

[rocky flint]

This is just some drama filled game. I don't understand why you guys have it out for other communities, when they don't do anything wrong except spend there own time developing things with you guys as a depencie. It's literally helping you guys but guess fuck everyone's time nowadays. And people wonder why noone wants to mod on reforger. Because you guys keep messing w people's time.

[deft mural]

Well there's more to this community than just RHS, and it will continue on far after. So don't worry about it. And most of this community actually isn't even on discord.

I've been in this community since day one in 2001, and this is my first time interacting with the community. Even though I've logged hundreds to thousands of hours gaming with everyone.

So don't take this small little part of the world as the real world.

[rancid pine]

theyve just become a meme of reforger at this point

[deft mural]

Anyways, let's get back on topic before people get banned.

[nimble gyro]

I just wonder how this is enforceable on their end.

They place their mod directly and freely on a Public Workshop for anyone to hit the download button.

[native narwhal]

obviously it is

[rancid pine]

to be fair i thought BI said they wouldnt enforce a private EULA

it would have to be done through the mod

[rocky flint]

Anytime someone makes something on the workshop

[nimble gyro]

Bohemia is gonna need to come and figure this out at this point. Because this is them arbitrarily choosing to bar people from their mod and to be fair; you told the guy he could exactly do what he wanted.

[rancid pine]

well to be fair the answer changes depending who you talk to in BI

I was told to just simply ignore most the people that comment in here by some of them lmao

[nimble gyro]

It doesn't seem reasonable you can post a public mod on the workshop and then bar 25% of the active community because: you don't like them or they had issues with you in the past.

The workshop is a public entity.

[rocky flint]

It's because rhs is there biggest mod team and longest existing for bohemia . Favoritism exist everywhere in the world. If they don't side w them, they'll find somewhere else

[rancid pine]

easily 40%

[native narwhal]

a permission does not have to be perpetual and soon as new info was brought to light, it was decided to take action. DG knows about the EULA cluase for months as it was discussed and argued about right here extensively

[molten geyser]

Again. 4MMR is it's own thing that has partnered with them we have our own mod team.

[rocky flint]

Then why give permission to the person that asked it

[soft egret]

It would've been nice if RHS first talked to the author, considering it was clearly know what their disord account was?
That didn't go very well.

Beyond that, lets not turn this into another drama shitfest again. Its almost weekend.

[native narwhal]

well i mean this is a nice opinion but i just directly pointed to the source of his enquiry thats all. I was not rude or anything

[rocky flint]

*** if it wasn't allowed ***

[molten kraken]

"Fairness" is why you have judges in courts instead of strictly applying the law.
Though RHS is in their rights to do what they did, even if it doesn't seems fair.

[rancid pine]

yea but im pretty sure BI said it wouldnt be enforceable on there end. The issue is that the main of DarkGru doesnt use it but there are groups that are proud to partner with us and use the name that are theoretically not directly us and there are atleast 4-5 groups

[rancid pine]

wow courtesy, never heard of it.

[nimble gyro]

They did.

They gave the guy permission in their thread.

Told him he was able to utilize the mod and then DMCA'd him afterwards on the last clause.

[soft egret]

Because it wasn't known that it wasn't allowed.
Its as simple as not clicking on the profile and not reading what it says on it.

[rancid pine]

why they have a dude in there studio that will enforce whatever they want

why give courtesy

we act like this is something new

[molten geyser]

Also man I don't go check yalls EULA like it's my hobby? Just DM me I would have removed it but now I got a strike. Actually 2 of em from this :/

[rocky flint]

Mannn you guys keep fucking w the modding community and choose favoritism this games gunna die quicker than the British queen did 🤷🏼‍♂️

[rancid pine]

who cares man, they wonder why modders are leaving in droves

[nimble gyro]

Let's not let this break down into drama as Dedmen said: But there needs to be a clear definitive answer from BI if they are allowed to bar specific people from downloading PUBLIC content on the workshop.

It's not enforceable, at all.

[rancid pine]

makes me wonder why i continue to invest so much into this game

[molten geyser]

Wanna go play Five M?

Let's rock

[nimble gyro]

As much as Soul says it is, are they going to cease and desist every person that downloads it that is on the list?

[soft egret]

If you want a metaphor..

You give person permission to represent your company at an official event.
Next day its revealed that that person is being investigated for tax evasion and generally considered a bad person now that you wouldn't want to associate with.
You revoke permission, even though you gave it to them perviously.

its not that hard really

[molten geyser]

Have a great day guys.

[rancid pine]

yea the metaphor makes sense, guilty until proven innocent

[molten kraken]

If you intend to work on something, unfortunately you should read the long shitty text that can be an EULA

[soft egret]

Yep thats how life works

[rancid pine]

maybe in europe

[soft egret]

No also everywhere else

[rocky flint]

Europeans are weird man.

[molten geyser]

I don't get an email when it's updated. So should I check every update?

If that's the case I'll never use a dependency again.

Silly

[rancid pine]

not really, there is always a classing denominator in most these issues and its not DarkGru

[molten geyser]

It's a game

[nimble gyro]

To be fair; it has been that way since the initial Mortalis and Soul drama.

[native narwhal]

actually, more and more it seems like it is

[rancid pine]

i just dont take shit that is clearly motivated by personal issues and not facts

[molten kraken]

If you use the update, yes (and thats the worst part of it)

[nimble gyro]

But: I don't see this as a reasonable way to enforce a EULA, it is stating that on a public platform; specific large entities of people cannot download this content without risking legal litigation.

[soft egret]

I'm talking about my metaphor.

If you give someone permission thinking they are a nice person. Then find out they are not. You take the permission back

[rancid pine]

well actually factually its not but thats the thing who needs facts when my name starts with RHS

[rancid pine]

yea opinions are like assholes

dont have to make sense

[molten geyser]

Everyone's got one

[rancid pine]

yup

[molten geyser]

If you don't I'm sorry....

[rancid pine]

but its okay the game is going backwards over time, well figure out a way to stop promoting toxic behavior

[native narwhal]

you can download and play all you want. The EULA conditions are specific to derivative works

[rocky flint]

https://tenor.com/view/have-a-blessed-day-marco-wilson-three-threemw-have-a-great-day-have-a-good-day-gif-22937566

[rancid pine]

false, Darkgru cant even utilize the mod at any capacity

[molten geyser]

I didn't mean to start a big thing tbh. It's just dissapointing we got lumped into yalls drama

We were just doing our thing minding our business. Now hours of work is gone and I have a strike. In the future please consider lending others the curtousy of reaching out.

[rancid pine]

its whatever anymore i just tend to laugh at the comedy

I wish i didnt build a community off this platform

[native narwhal]

i mean it is absolutely crystal clear that people have zero respect for people's hard work and their control over their work.

[rocky flint]

I can tell. You guys marked one for removal hense why we're here now.

You guys give no fucks

[nimble gyro]

If he didn't respect your hard work, he wouldn't have asked for permission.

[rocky flint]

Except your own

[molten geyser]

What a stuck up in the nose response.

[soft egret]

I'll pull a "excessive profanity" and "targeted profanity" on that message. So bye bye.

What is the actual difference. Tellin the author they need to take their mod down, and getting the mod taken down right away?
I don't know what was actually in this mod, was it 100% rhs based content, or was that only a small part of it?

[native narwhal]

you have noone but your own leadership to blame for this

[rancid pine]

its a public work space man, on a community where respect is earned not given cuz of your past. Toxicity goes both ways

[nimble gyro]

I am not even apart of Darkgru in any capacity lol.

I don't even play on their servers.

[rancid pine]

idk the difference is common courtesy that maybe doesnt exist in arma modding but the difference is also two strikes???

[nimble gyro]

I am stating that this is abit of a arbitrary overreach on your end.

[molten geyser]

They are lumping us all in together now

[native narwhal]

sorry I misread he for we

[molten geyser]

We are all the same now 🙂

One.

[terse current]

What a way to wake up

[elder marlin]

🍿

[rancid pine]

just another classic

[soft egret]

I don't think "two strikes" works the way you think it does.
There isn't just a strike counter that leads to a ban or whatev. People always look at context

[rancid pine]

then whats the point of it

[deft mural]

It's probably time for this conversation to be clamped down and moved on @Ded

[nimble gyro]

It definitely factors into the strikes, I bet if he hits three on account he can't post on the workshop anymore.

[soft egret]

No it doesn't work like that

[rocky flint]

How about you spend hours of your life on a mod, and a mod team get it removed.

W 0 reason

[soft egret]

People always say there is zero reason.
Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[deft mural]

Easy. Let's not start picking fights with everyone now. You can read my response at the start of this party.

[rocky flint]

Easy, and if it isn't your issue how bout stay out of it. Because if it was your mod, you'd be on the same boat

[deft mural]

So basically everyone here that's supporting, should just go shove off. Way to be friendly.

[nimble gyro]

I digress. This conversation has ran it's course; I would highly recommend folks look at their own way of utilizing patches and possibly find a workaround that does not require RHS Content to reach the end goal.

Granted from my understanding, it is nearly impossible without ditching their gear from the server-list.

[rocky flint]

Not what I said. Reread it

[nimble gyro]

Sadly, MMR caught the shit end of the stick and it doesn't seem this is changing.

[rancid pine]

To be fair im not mad just sort of disappointed, however i did think BI wouldn't enforce the EULA but maybe that was enforcing said banned groups (Wouldn't know any personally lmao) from even using the mod at all.

Cool to know atleast strikes are just there to sound fancy and not actually do anything

[deft mural]

Hopefully when they come out with the updated IP jazz, they'll clarify the currently unknown strike system.

[rancid pine]

maybe its just more of a determination thing

like this guy has 50

probably not a good track record

[terse current]

The question becomes whether or not this is an enforcement of ND or the new license of prohibited groups.

Either way Phoenix had permission to do what he did from RHS.

Bohemia's rulings on this have been consistent in my time watching this and I don't understand why this changed.

[soft egret]

BI is not enforcing it (Checking for violations of it).
RHS is enforcing it, by filing a DMCA claim at BI.

And from BI's perspective, a DMCA filed at someone making a derivative, of a non-derivatives licensed mod. Is clear.

[cerulean nebula]

Thats how you know shits wild

[rancid pine]

yea i think i understand the clarification its more on the EULA for derivatives but BI doesn't want to enforce if we were just using the mod as is

[cerulean nebula]

That even you were like wow

[rancid pine]

yea nothings gonna change, its just wild how negative a once great studio has been perceived in this game

its done a complete 180

[native narwhal]

you are right, in fact we cant ask BI to do anything if you choose to just run our mods on DG servers without modification

[rancid pine]

yea i sort of get it now

[soft egret]

Cool to know atleast strikes are just there to sound fancy and not actually do anything
Now you're just trying to turn my words around... Are we done here?

[native narwhal]

but you would still be breaching the EULA without any direct consequence

[nimble gyro]

Hey man, I stand by the right for creators to enforce the licensing as they see fit; I think RHS has some great content and some pull in the community. But the ND enforcement is abit of a grey area; and I am surprised terms and conditions like that are even allowed.

Granted, not my call, not my fight; but BI definitely needs to take some time to look over their licensing and confirm this is the intended end goal of what they want on the workshop. It creates a weird grey area where mod creators can specifically ban people they don't like from interacting with their works.

[rancid pine]

okay so what are strikes used for since there was no clarification. can you present the BI internal documentation on its use and precedent you use? likely not....

[native narwhal]

dont like the license...dont use the mod... no?

like what are we even discussing

[rancid pine]

same old crap new day RHS mean, Community mad more or less

confusion

[native narwhal]

a license is an agreement we make as creators with the downstream users, you agree to this license once you engage

[cerulean nebula]

Or acknowledge that you made mods for a player base yes, your group may have made the mods, but you made them for a select group of people now when those select group of people are able to customize and or add on to make that said, mod, better, you should be appreciative and not docking them

[soft egret]

I can tell you how we do it on discord.
You can have 10 strikes, for different or minor things and it'll do nothing.

But if you have 2 strikes for the exact same thing, in short time span. You'll get punished harder.
Depend on what it is, 1 strike might be an immediate ban, in other cases even 15 strikes might not lead to one.
It depends on what each thing is. case-by-case.

[rancid pine]

i see so perception based on individual infraction

[soft egret]

I don't think its gray at all.

Make a derivative from a ND mod. You can get shot down anytime the mod author decides to. You are violating their license, but it is the mod authors discretion, whether they'll act on it.

It is a really shitty move from the mod author to just strike it instead of talking to the person first. Or to take back previously given permission without a good reason for it.
But license wise, your mod was violating the ND license, from the start. Only hoping on good will from the mod author.

[native narwhal]

that is absolutely wrong

[deft mural]

I think where people are upset, Is that the mod Creator can basically punish the downstream with a real lasting record strike. At whim.

But realistically, there's no point debating this here. It is what it is. If you don't like it, do like everyone else and don't install the offending mod.

[native narwhal]

we have made the mods for ourselves and decided to share them with you undr certain terms. You accept those terms

[rancid pine]

i suppose more or less, the lack of courtesy is really this one

[molten geyser]

This

[cerulean nebula]

But turned around and gave us permission when we asked?

[molten geyser]

I'm an old school guy. Just DM me. I'm chill.

[cerulean nebula]

Then went back on it

[molten geyser]

I didn't need a strike

Silly

Billy

[native narwhal]

yes, because there was new information between those two points in time

[rancid pine]

well like in this case i can see practically the confusion, was prior given perms, partnered with darkgru but not actually darkgru and got sort of piled in the EULA. Although it wasnt about what the mod is (as some servers use RHS's mod to simulate Ukraine which is viloation also but we dont talk about that) but its sort of that confused situation

[deft mural]

Regardless. It is what it is. Like it or not. It's policy.

So if we want to be constructive here, We've cleared the air. Now it's up to BI to either change policy, RHS to change procedure or everyone to be a little bit wiser.

[rancid pine]

more or less yea

to be fair this was way calmer than the norm it was nice for a change

[deft mural]

It's all about turning down the temperature. People need to talk, but if we go a little too fast and a little too far - It ends up turning into a punching match,

[molten geyser]

Again, didn't mean for it to cause this. I've given my feedback.

[deft mural]

Too bad Phoenix - OFF to the Gulag! 😜

[terse current]

It took a 2 hour fight to get them to spill the beans on a mod they didn't like I had up.

[terse current]

They would rather see your account hit than be mature.
Even when there were people monetizing my content I approached them first (despite them definitely not deserving it)

[cerulean nebula]

@molten geyser i have spare accounts you can have 🤪

[livid wedge]

Whats sad its a freakin videogame. Why cant we all get along and make the game better. Its a Military Simulator game not a Highschool Simulator.

[nimble gyro]

This is exactly what isn’t needed and is just gonna stir more BS - especially alienating and saying a certain group of people are “troglodytes”

[deft mural]

Yall got monetizing content? I wish I had enough of a mod people wanted to loot it 😛

[terse current]

There was never "A chance to soothen things up"

[stiff jasper]

DarkGru not wanting to discuss anything at all and sticking to flooding the chat rather than resolving the conflict is what was not needed. Deal with the aftermath

[terse current]

I had to argue with Pufu for two hours to get him to tell me what mod he was trying to DCMA from us.

[deft mural]

Well take the first step and ignore what transpired here, and lets move on. Better together.

[molten geyser]

(especially in prehistoric times) a person who lived in a cave.
a hermit.
a person who is regarded as being deliberately ignorant or old-fashioned.

Lol

[cerulean nebula]

Thats a wild accusation when all they've been trying to do is figure stuff out

[stiff jasper]

do you want screenshots of the thousand messages of "fuck Pufu" and derivatives to refresh your mind?

[cerulean nebula]

You can dm them but ill just laugh

[molten geyser]

What an interesting diss. They aren't all bad peeps. I like most of the Admins at DG. Maybe a few are ya know unbearable but the others make up for it. Troglodytes is a reach.

[livid wedge]

God forbid we seek clarification. 🙄

[terse current]

Show me a screenshot of me saying "Fuck Pufu"

[stiff jasper]

also remember you can always appeal to the decisions made by BI, it works the same with Steam

[molten geyser]

Where? I tried to reply to the email and it wouldn't let me.

[deft mural]

Now we are getting back into it, and over nothing. Let's keep it civil less, BI needs to deal with us all.

[molten geyser]

I also hit up this guy

[stiff jasper]

it's an auto-email or whatever you could call it. Check pinned messages here, there should be an email there

[molten geyser]

I can't see it

[stiff jasper]

sorry, it's in the description.

[e-mail]

[molten geyser]

Sick

Thanks

[stiff jasper]

and yeah MarioE is the right person to talk to either, hope you resolve your issue

[rancid pine]

clearly you havent been reading anything here, weve tried several times to get answers both calmly and pissed. This is way more people dislike RHS in the community than us so keep up the energy

[stiff jasper]

"get answers both calmly and pissed" lol

[rancid pine]

we tried both ways didnt work so at some point RHS is gonna have to take a step too

thats reforger for ya

doesnt need to make sense anymore

[stiff jasper]

what child

[rancid pine]

oh now were kids

great

[cerulean nebula]

Very back and forth this guy talks smack then helps then talks smack

[rancid pine]

he saw it was too calm in here

[cerulean nebula]

Fr

[rancid pine]

well im a child now

[soft egret]

Do you even know who you are attacking?

[terse current]

He was asking "What child" in response to me calling him a child

[stiff jasper]

what

[rancid pine]

ahhhhhhh