#ip_rights_violations

1 messages · Page 6 of 1

elfin heron
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theyve already stolen your content its not like theyre going to have the greatest moral compass

zealous elm
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yes but most of these people are in Russia

steady hatch
zealous elm
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Yeah The ghillie Suite 5.45

elfin heron
elfin heron
zealous elm
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yeah , is for that DCMA shot down the mod. The DCMA don't shoot mod for nothing

steady hatch
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you and another moder happened to be working on importing the same suit into arma 3

zealous elm
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You don't understand , if you want use Vitya model you need to buy

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In fact the Russian Group don't have buy the model on vitya. The russian group Just Ripped on the mod of ours teams

steady hatch
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why is this your issue then?

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you don't own the model

zealous elm
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All peapole buy the model of vitya can use on steam or orther video game , but if you don't buy the model , you can't.

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You don't understand the fact that the Russian team stole the models present in our work, without having bought the models from Vitya

steady hatch
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do you have a picture of your suit?

zealous elm
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of course wait

steady hatch
zealous elm
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first the texture of the top present on the Russian Team :

Leshiy_Top_co.png
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ours Texture of the tops :

545GHILLIE_TOP_V2_03_C.png
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Just change the shadow

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you need more

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?

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i can send you all ref

steady hatch
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i was asking in game picture not texture map

zealous elm
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ho okey

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This is Version of the Russian Group :

image.png
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You can see is the same texture making by ours team

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these idiots didn't even bother to change the texutre

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you can see the same Error on the torso

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And now i have made other version for fix this

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You can see the Buton on the middle of the torso

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This version is not present on Vitya pack.

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And is the same error on ours old work version

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And we were nice at the beginning, telling them that if he wanted to use it he had to ask us for permission first .

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But instead they insulted and harassed us

zealous elm
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Ok this guys is :

image.png
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everything is clear now

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we now know your motivation my dear

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so we are waiting for the admins to prove everything.

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the harassment that these people and friends do to us. Threatening emails and ripped contant for arma 3 mod.Of course you and your friends are in Russia and in Ukraine and you risk nothing. But that is not a reason to behave this way.

prisma ledge
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Or we should just believe you))

sonic moss
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Hello, I have caught wind of this argument

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Yes, this person messaged me

image.png
plucky vale
# zealous elm Ok this guys is :

There is zero evidence to indicate this, just dropping a discord profile and saying "oh its the Eastern Euros it all makes sense now" doesn't work mate, you'll find citing sources and additional imagery may help your case

maiden scarab
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Personal revenge is crazy

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He posted like 20 different pictures as evidence and you try that excuse

elfin heron
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this channel is on fire today

zealous elm
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I don't want talk with you

maiden scarab
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Yet you came to me to ask for a commission, alright lmao

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You dont want to talk to me cuz you have no way of defending yourself... you're a known person in the modding community for all of this, and now you have like 3 alts acting like they are "corso's friends"

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You're like 35 iirc, grow up

misty nimbus
rustic copper
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Not to mention the sources of those models sold are/were questional

sonic moss
misty nimbus
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yeah im pretty sure Vitya modelled them KEKW

rustic copper
# sonic moss I beg your pardon?

I've seen models ripped for Arma... so yeah...

Not saying ALL models are/were ripped, but there were several which are known to come from other games, mods or even Arma itself

sonic moss
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Your comment implies that the things I sell are stolen/ripped, that is false

rustic copper
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my comment implies that the person in question used ripped models bought from third party websites (which are usually questionable to begin with)

misty nimbus
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I dont know what to tell you but they're not ripped anyway

sonic moss
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Yeah i'm not going further into this

misty nimbus
rustic copper
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I know, reading is hard 🤷‍♂️
See CASE 11 in the massive wall of text

misty nimbus
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This is corso ripping content, not Vitya

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reading is really hard it would seem Grez

rustic copper
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the whole discussion is about Corso...

misty nimbus
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Yes, although you're implying that Vitya has ripped his assets which Corso bought from him, which he hasnt

rustic copper
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that's what you guys made out of it, not me

maiden scarab
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Not really lol

misty nimbus
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Not to mention the sources of those models sold are/were questional
No, you definitely instigated this entire thing.

maiden scarab
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It's clear Corso commissioned Vitya to model the ghillie, which he then sold on his website for ANYONE to use. Corso then DMCAd any mods with the same model claiming he had the rights to the model, which Vitya then said "nuh uh"

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As seen in case 10

misty nimbus
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Its shitty enough as a developer to see your stuff be redistributed without your permission, its happened to me - but to be almost explicitly told the content you modelled and sell for a commission isnt yours is something else.

I've seen it all 😂

sonic moss
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Yeah it's quite demotivating and there's not a whole lot I can do

misty nimbus
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Oh no theres nothing you can do other than asking them to take it down and if they dont DMCAing them lmfao, luckily a lot of people have asked permission for projects ive worked on but a lot havent

tawdry surge
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Hello, I come seeing more information has been published.

sonic moss
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I see a lot of evidence in those cases yet something crucial is missing. Where is the proof of purchase for the people accused of not acquiring the models in a legitimate way

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It should be fairly easy to prove it

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and then that would be the end of it

tawdry surge
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I am thankful for corso as he has published this himself here, so I posting it is no longer consider doxxing or private information:
The email used by Corso on his DMCA strikes on the several workshop mods have used this email. It is the same email as the new username account of Milka, AKA Corso's 3rd (at least) discord account.

image.png image.png image.png
misty nimbus
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also has the D'ont thing again ^

tawdry surge
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Not those, real and official model, sold by Vitya

zealous elm
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Ho All Friend is here Kotyera Toot

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realy good

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Now : why are you talking about everything BlackSnake has done in the past? What does this have to do with our current mod in reforger? All the models we use are official and the proofs have already been provided to the admin and they have all been verified. And for 98% they come from Vitya from whom we commissioned and on the other hand purchased.

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Now if you continue to Harassing one guy is okey

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But the guy is not here for defend his self

tawdry surge
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I would suggest against contact lawyer.
What Corso calls harassment is users calling out his lies, scamming, selling illegal content, ripping mods, and his own harassment.
Many Discords have choose to ban this user - after constant problem of his harassment and weird and frequent comments regarding children in the direction of other users.
Even after this case was dropped Corso and alternative accounts have gone and began contacting and threatening other users

glacial lagoon
tawdry surge
# zealous elm Ok this guys is :

This is include but not limit to user T00T. who is one of the person I have contacted when asking about his dealing with Corso (this user has allowed me share his name and involvement)

misty nimbus
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Hi Kotyara 👋

elfin heron
dusty nimbus
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Corso has already recieved a workshop ban, and I don't think that BI can do much more in that regard

zealous elm
glacial lagoon
zealous elm
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And he takes full responsibility

misty nimbus
tawdry surge
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Regarding targeting of groups:
As I wrote in original post, I would like to point out that there are very many different people, groups, and community that have been involve in this report. This include at least 4 different language group in Arma community as well. Many people share server and friend, many people don't share server or friend, many people not even aware of each other

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This information has come from very different parts of community - from America to russia, from big legal mod team to small ripping community

zealous elm
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You are a group of mentally ill

tawdry surge
tawdry surge
zealous elm
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Yes because you come to harass people with mentally ill proposals, while at the source, the problem comes from you is the fact that you cannot stand the idea of ​​your silk mod being ejected from the steam workshop of arma 3 after a DCMA report which judged that your mod actually contains model from the work we had done.

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you can talk again and again .

tawdry surge
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I personally without disclossing my identity can say that I have had no mods removed from the Workshop. If my identity needs to be revealed for legal questions to Arma Administration - it will be shared once asked in DMs

zealous elm
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but i stop now with you and all your friend.

zealous elm
echo orchid
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enough already. The matter is being looked into

tawdry surge
# echo orchid enough already. The matter is being looked into

I have several new user who had not speak up before contact me since this post been made public with new evidence regard illegal activity, specifically regarding monetary scams.
Would it be good to share this information here after the process of evidence gather and name hide is complete?

echo orchid
zealous elm
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just for understand you speak of BlackSnake or you talk about my project GreyZone ?

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If you talk About BlackSnake i leave imediatly this discution,Is not my problems.If you talk about GreyZone i am your men.

maiden scarab
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You literally are blacksnake/corso and we have proof. Stop trying so hard. You're an adult, grow up

zealous elm
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agreements so you are all completely sick, and just obsessed with personal revenge which is literally harassment.

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Aim your men letsgo

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i contact bi for send all proof of my identity

maiden scarab
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You have the same broken english, say "d'ont", joined my server with both your main (blacksnake) and "milka" at the same time...

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That sounds like enough proof to me

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And how is it "personal revenge" or whatever if me and "milka" never even talked? I only talked to "blacksnake", not you

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I'll shut up, BI and its team of mods will handle it.

zealous elm
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Yes.

zealous elm
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no sorry, he was part of my team

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But you have say : BI and its team of mods will handle it.

zealous elm
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But now I'm beyond tired of having to justify or defend anything.
I leave Bohemia Interactive determined to do what is right.

spiral patrol
zealous elm
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Ho down ! you are all here

spiral patrol
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What kind of schizophrenia to write to your another account and make a illusion that you are two different people?

zealous elm
spiral patrol
zealous elm
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You show all your face

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is good

spiral patrol
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there no ghillie now in there

crimson ingot
spiral patrol
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This is insane how Corso cares about MODPACK, not the mod where i claim all credits for me. And when i remowed the ghillies themself from the mod, he still send the DMCA on it. How pathetic

spiral patrol
faint nacelle
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This is not place to accuse each other

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You are not helping your cause

spiral patrol
faint nacelle
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Right now I want this chat quiet down. The matter is being looked into.

spiral patrol
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If there was only Corso mod, i would ask him about it and maybe there will be no situation like this.

zealous elm
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All your mod is ripped contant , From RHS and other video game.

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You / Morderec / Toot / and other guys make the same process

spiral patrol
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It's not my mod, i dont take any credits for it

zealous elm
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yeh but you d'ont have the right to use them

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if you want use the ghillie for exemple , you need to buy the model

crimson ingot
glacial lagoon
zealous elm
spiral patrol
faint nacelle
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@spiral patrol

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What did I just say

spiral patrol
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Sorry, i think we really need to close this conversation

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all proofs already uploaded, no word need to be added now

spiral patrol
faint nacelle
prisma ledge
# zealous elm

Two French guys talking friendly to each other on a broken English, nothing unique here 😂

native narwhal
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I'm sorry 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm crying myself laughing. Would have been even better if it was "d'ont leave us bruh" "no worries bro I d'ont c'ant stay"

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A screen of a guy talking to himself through different accounts is something I can't say I've seen on this discord yet

tawdry surge
crimson ingot
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dead giveaway

steady hatch
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Nominally models bought online contain textures to use as well

zealous elm
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No is not true this texture is making be me and my team. Vitya can confirm this.Stop to try this shit.

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morderec version up

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my team version

image.png
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morderec version

image.png
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these idiots didn't even bother to change the texutre
you can see the same Error on the torso
And now i have made other version for fix this
You can see the Buton on the middle of the torso
This version is not present on Vitya pack.
And is the same error on ours old work version

image.png
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I have decided to stop talking to yours. We are going to call a legal firm to find out how we can attack you, for organized gang harassment and defamation.

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You have the right to challenge a DCMA decision. Even if all the evidence of your copying of our group's data is obvious. But you do not have the right to do it in this way. Harassment, defamation, Death message on private emails and everything else.

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Because obviously everything is organized with the aim of causing harm. In an organized group

image.png
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We'll see how it ends now , even if most of you live in Eastern Europe. Some are probably in countries more open to good manners

elfin heron
zealous elm
# elfin heron a knowingly false counter dmca is a felony in many jurisdictions. talk to a lawy...

So for your information, the discord moderators can confirm to you that the reports made 10 days ago were validated after verification. These are why the dcma decided to close the first mod published by Morderec and his group. Secondly the second mod published by benazy containing the same model and the same texture as well as many other ripped models was also closed by the DCMA for the same reason and those if it was also reported to the discord moderator. Then the 3rd mod Re-publish by benazy containing once again the same model and the same texture as well as many other ripped models was reported to the DCMA. This time was deleted by benazy who without wanting to affirm it said this if

image.png
elfin heron
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maybe talk to an optician too as you are incapable of reading talk to a lawyer instead of settling it over discord

zealous elm
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And why don't you tell these people?

faint nacelle
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This is not what I wanted to see when I woke up.

zealous elm
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Me too

elfin heron
zealous elm
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Ho no sir .

faint nacelle
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This is just going in circles. The matter is being looked into. It'll take some time.

zealous elm
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5/5

faint nacelle
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I do want to point out steam handles the DMCAs independently. Discord moderators have nothing to do with that.

And BI handles their own infringement policy and workshop removals and bans internally. In that equation Discord moderators are at same level as anyone else as anyone can report wrongdoings to BI.

We can in some occasion help collect that kind of information to pass on to BI, but our role here is to maintain some semblance of peace on this server.

tawdry surge
# faint nacelle I do want to point out steam handles the DMCAs independently. Discord moderators...

I am aware, which is why this information has been also made to be passed on to Steam. Only waiting for this process to finish and user & alt accounts to be banned - then possibly use this as further evidence in the case on steam.
I am know that false DMCAs are against steam Policy, I believe that with enough proof they can take away the ability of accounts to send DMCA out, especially with the proof at hand of falsifying personal information and impersonation of other users.

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I think it worth commenting that Corso claim is on knowing my identity - is false. I have no relation to mods he has sent DMCA off. Those emails have been given to me by a third party user who download them from chats where people who recive false DMCA post them.
I personally am related to one of the several group of user who have been moneytarily scammed by Corso. It is just that with all this new evidence at hand it has now become possible to tie proof of illegal activity all together into large case, with Undeniable Evidence of Wrongdoing

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Next step after resolving the problem in Arma Community and Steam Community is write legal appeals to PayPal and Fiverr using all evidence provided as proof of wrongdoing. The hope is at least user banning, but several member believe it possible to recieve monetary compensation for damage inflict on users. This however is not Arma related, hence not part of the discussion here

faint nacelle
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This issue has been discussed enough here and whatever evidence has been provide is being reviewed. Any further discussion on this particular topic until further notice will result in temporary mutes so the channel gets some peace.

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In the meantime I suggest neither party contacts each other through any other channels either.

woven valley
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After reading this i dont even know if i wanna learn how to mod lol

faint nacelle
woven valley
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I just wanna know how to make a patch 🤣

faint nacelle
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even simple sounding task like that requires all kinds of stuff to learn. Modding can be fun hobby though

paper prawn
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And then you look up and notice that thousands of hours have apparently just disappeared from your life... 😭 🤣

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The above is a joke about how it can suck you in, not in anyway related to the stuff above, in case it needs to be said 😉

maiden scarab
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Modding, besides having to deal w certain people, is actually really fun. Time consuming, as mentioned above by the other guy, but fun

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You end up messing up some stuff here and there at the start, but you gradually learn and get better

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It feels real good when you see your final pbo working, with all of the configs and p3ds properly done. And it's even better when you see the model and texture you spent multiple hours making in-game and used by other people

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Anyway, this aint in the right channel. Just wanted to add to what the others said in regards to modding

proper mountain
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what have i just read

jagged python
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😣

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If someone ever stole my head devs code I'd be dmcaing so hard xd

tawdry surge
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I wish to bring update on this situation as it maybe relevant to knowledge on decisions being made regarding the issue.
I have today learn the news that one of the falsely DMCA Mods conter-DMCA claim on Workshop have been answered by Valve Steam Workshop Team.
The author and it's mod have provided the needed proof to Steam that the DMCA claim sent to it was invalid and false. Since then the mod has come returned to the Steam Workshop in it's original form.

This mean that Valve have looked through DMCA claim and conter-DMCA claim provided by both sides and made the rulling that the report was not valid and the mod is legally right to exist on the Steam Workshop!

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I have ask contact of author to comment on situation but no reply has been given since. I am aware this being only mod that attempt conter-DMCA towards Corso, and it has come out victorious in the battle against lies. Hopefully this may serve as a proof for other modder that the system works and there is no need to give up on it!
And for Administration here as a note of knowledge of Valve stance on the false DMCA claims in CASE 9.

plain rivet
jagged python
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Man's carrying

coral torrent
# tawdry surge I wish to bring update on this situation as it maybe relevant to knowledge on de...

Without any concrete relevancy to the case you are talking about I'd like to clarify that Valve is not the judging party on DMCA cases. If they receive a take-down they are obligated to forward it and if no counter is filed action is taken automatically. If there is any counter filed that could have the tiniest amount of merit to it (it can be as simple as saying "no I am in fact the author the other party is lying") then they will cancel the report, forward info of the parties to each other and they must go through a civil legal process to sort it out.

Neither Valve nor BI for that sake, will be involved in determining who holds the rights to something if there is any doubt about the true origins and license situation.
There can be clear cut cases where people re-upload watermarked content (hard to argue against if the other parties name is inside your files), where they/we might step in to save you from having to pursue the expensive legal way, but that happens not because of the DMCA in that case but because Valve/We make us of our rights to administer the workshop content.
The DMCA framework was designed for real people with servable addresses in the US, not for e.g. a German and somebody from Australia to fight over who keeps the rights to a project they both worked on and now DMCA each other.

If you have not done so already please report the violating content to the email in this channels description so we can look into this, thank you.

zealous elm
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wee see your mod is up again on steam Workshop

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No ripped ?

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The ghillie suite texture come to my Team job

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And of course all other part on this mod is ripped, Vest , Caps , Helmet.

manic laurel
tawdry surge
tawdry surge
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There is no weapon added in mod that is being discussed.

faint nacelle
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30 day mutes for everyone then eh?

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😠

tawdry surge
# faint nacelle 30 day mutes for everyone then eh?

Excuse me for continuing the conversation. I attempt to bring in any news event regarding the happening, as they may be relevant for the related issues.
Your order of ignoring going in circle and not replying to problem causer is been followed, at least by me.

hot marten
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Query: wherein base textures (camo1_co.paa) for imports are debinarized and modified without express permission by the author, strictest license of no use is assumed, correct?

elfin heron
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if no license is specified in the content strictest license is assumed yes

brave jewel
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anyone awarre of this community, its servers, or anything on them?

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he's an asset ripper and flagrantly doesnt care

Untitled-3.jpg
fierce wagon
faint nacelle
fierce wagon
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anyways usually how much times takes to have a response? i sent it 1 month ago

faint nacelle
grave elm
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For clarification on the issue raised by wld427. 3CB (In this instance me) was initially contacted by Tarantino offering to fix an issue with the Hilux SPG-9 optic and its ranging as it was incorrect. He did so via a couple of config changes and an additional optic reticule and I incorporated the fix into the 3CB Faction pack for a future update that is not yet released. In light of the evidence wld427 has provided I will now remove this fix ahead of release as I do not wish for any potential issues with the 3CB Faction pack and permissions. He is not a member of 3CB, our mod team and has not been at any point in the past.

manic laurel
echo orchid
delicate hamlet
jagged python
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PuFu on the case!

shut wasp
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We over at DarkGru got hacked and we understand this is because a lack of security in our Dicord and we are taking the proper measures through discord
But someone from the "modern warfare" server decided to do this we want to know if this could be handled through Bohemias end

Screenshot_20240214_194256_Discord.jpg
elfin heron
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what do you expect bohemia to do about something they have zero control over or say in

shut wasp
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Seeing this modern warfare is hosted on reforger?

faint nacelle
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and maybe message community managers (Nillers/Leclair) about it. They might be able to advice further

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discord hacking is not however part of this channels topic

shut wasp
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Copy thank you

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We have reason to believe now that it wasn't anyone from that server
But an interal issue with someone setting them up most likely
Not further action is required from Bohemia

coral torrent
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That is an old trick, you can expect it to be a thrid party that wants two others fighting and DDOSing each other so they profit from players moving onto their servers.

golden mesa
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So we know "modded" in APL-ND is not allowed. But what about

I use a Component from a APL-ND mod in an entity in my mod
Does that count as just "using it" and not remix, modify or building upon?

manic laurel
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building upon, as it is a dependency?

golden mesa
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I was thinking building upon is more like I make my own component that is built upon the other component, but I guess just using it could count aswell

manic laurel
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well no actually
As long as you use the original work as dependency it should be ok
Just don't copy-paste in your mod 👀

golden mesa
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it should be ok
Can we get an official confirmation on this?

elfin heron
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yes, ask a lawyer

manic laurel
golden mesa
coral torrent
# golden mesa I was thinking building upon is more like I make my own component that is built ...

This is a good question you ask, seriously. A good example of the legal language. if you read it as normal sentence you would think "well yeah, my mod kind of needs this to exist, so in terms of layers I am building upon the ground work layed out by others". But if you are a laywer the first qustion usually is "what does X actually mean" (and then vsauce music starts playing). In this case "to build up-on" in IP right is in the context of creating a derivative. That means you produce an expression of IP and it is in some form based upon another persons work. For our context of modding only the copyright is interesting (it is rather unusual for a mod to have a registered trademark or some algorithm so clever they actually patented it). And for copyright some of the original work must be included in yours for it to be relevant. So if all you do is add a GUID reference as mod dependency and call method names another mod provides you are merely making your own work "compatible" but you do not include any copyrightable content. The method names or structure of the mods classes is not copyright-able. You would violate the terms if you take e.g. a static method of a ND mod, add 3 prints to it and then publish your mod with those included. That piece of code wold be the problem. Or a texture you only put a smiley face on but otherwise it is clearly not your own original work. Those are problematic.
IP rights can be a bit of a hassle but for our purposes here in the BI community rule of thumb usually applies. But always ask if you are unsure. I am happy to de-rail any conversation with IP right lessons any time of the day

soft egret
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FYI. After a long wait, the Reforger EULA has finally been fixed. https://store.steampowered.com/eula/1874880_eula_1

Before:

For the benefit of the entire User community, You give us an irrevocable permission to use, copy, modify and adapt anything You create using Our game and share with other Users of Our game in multiplayer or as an online download. You also agree that We allow other people to use, copy, modify and adapt Your content under the terms of this license.

If You do not want to accept these rules, do not create and share any content using Our game.

After:

For the benefit of the entire User community, You give us an irrevocable permission to use, copy, modify and adapt the game content and share it with other Users of Our game in multiplayer or as an online download. You also agree that We may allow other people to use, copy, modify and adapt the game content under the terms of this license.
For avoidance of any doubt the use of content which was created using other associated Services (such as ARMA REFORGER Tools) is regulated by its own terms (such as rules defined in ARMA REFORGER Tools EULA or ARMA REFORGER Workshop Terms of Use).
If You do not want to accept these rules, do not create and share any game content using Our game.

coral torrent
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^ Further clarifications for those interested are coming in a blog post by us with an FAQ. Also explaining what the difference is between content made using the game vs made with the tools. Spoiler: Game content refers to anything you can produce while playing the game (videos, images, audio recordings, mission files) while mods are created with the tools and thus only the tools eula applies there (which does not include this granting of permissions).

paper prawn
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Is the DayZ game EULA getting the same change? (It hasn't yet)

manic laurel
soft egret
paper prawn
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Yeah, will be interested in the blog post mentioned by Arkensor. Depending on the rationale within it it might help poke some folks. Definitely needs that change to in my opinion

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That said very much appreciate the change to Reforger's EULA. The new wording seems solid, especially the "may" between "we" and "allow" 🙂 That implies that a specific permission has to be granted rather than blanket permission

coral torrent
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It has always been that way the implications of the license have not changed, they were only updated to stop people from misinterpreting them.

paper prawn
oblique dome
#

There is a "kizoni" that are publishing mods that have been taking from Tactical Warfares "TW-Easternfront2" even the picture from our mods have been used to hightlight these three mods...

manic laurel
#

if you are the creator of the stolen content, file a DMCA on Steam and email infringements@bistudio.com with details too

faint nacelle
#

since the original question was posted in reforger discussion

manic laurel
manic laurel
slim jetty
#

Couple of mods for the bohemia beasts to take a DMCA hit at since they have nothing else to be doing.

manic laurel
glossy depot
#

Did BI determine that obfuscation isn't allowed?

#

Also didn't they determine that writing your mod in a way that doesn't all usage in workbench is against the ELUA as well?

elfin heron
#

obfuscation is just useless nowadays

glossy depot
glossy depot
elfin heron
#

it is useless and pretty easily undone

glossy depot
#

For you maybe, not for everyone.

coral torrent
elfin heron
#

why and on what legal grounding

coral torrent
#

This applies to anything hosted on our workshop. Obfuscation has been abused to deliver malicious mods, hide backdoors and all sorts of abuse. This topic was unregulated for a long time but as there is no improvement in sight it was time to make things clear. #enfusion_workshop message
The way to protect your IP is to report people who infringe it. We have better capabilities on our own workshop to patrol these reports so we can finally do so.

elfin heron
#

on what legal grounding

#

i get the why is a poor security policy

glossy depot
coral torrent
#

If you refer to adding malicious code to your mod to prevent others from opening it in the game or workbench then yes, that is not allowed. Mechanisms like this were hidden using obfuscation also. Both are now explictly banned.

elfin heron
#

you should be a politician

#

on what legal grounding are BI preventing people from obfuscating what they make

dusk swan
elfin heron
#

and theyve made 0 distinction between A3 and Enfusion products

coral torrent
#

This applies to anything hosted on our workshop.

elfin heron
#

so then it is allowed

dusk swan
#

enfusion products are not on steam workshop

elfin heron
#

just not on your workshop nobody wants to use

#

im still waiting to hear the legal grounds for dictating how people can pack their stuff btw

glossy depot
elfin heron
glossy depot
#

That's like saying they can't remove something just because it doesn't break the EULA, and they in fact can if they so please.

elfin heron
#

they cannot if they do not make a condition in their EULA to do so 🙂

#

it should be a very straight forward question for them to answer

glossy depot
#

Ask B.I. legal if you're so concerned about it then.

elfin heron
#

hmmm, no

#

ill ask the person making these claims

#

because theyre a BI employee they should be correct about BI policies, no?

glossy depot
#

Sounds like you just wanna start issues for no reason.

elfin heron
#

sorry i nearly thought making sure what people are saying in this channel is proper was a good thing for a moment there

#

silly me

coral torrent
elfin heron
#

there we go

#

that wasnt so hard

dusk swan
#

lol bruh

#

calm down

glossy depot
#

Yea, maybe give him time to show you before you cry about it.

elfin heron
#

i wasnt the one crying about it homie

glossy depot
#

Sure sounds like it to me.

elfin heron
#

maybe next time dont assume that everything in this channel is enfusion 👍

coral torrent
#

The policy change on obfuscation is relatively new and we have some general info on right holders coming to explain how people should protect their work, what we do to support our creators and give clear examples of what is allowed and what not.

#

The question from @glossy depot was about reforger specifically. Right?

elfin heron
#

there is 0 specificity about reforger there

image.png
dusk swan
coral torrent
#

But he a mod creator who is mostly active in reforger right now. You assume it was about A3 which he also did not say

elfin heron
elfin heron
dusk swan
#

so if you dont really know why did u chime in

elfin heron
#

i do really know

#

the answer is no, unless you're talking about the minority of players and mod authors

dusk swan
glossy depot
#

And anyone that has seen my name before would know that. Especially the people (B.I. Employees) that I was asking.

elfin heron
#

ask in a public channel you ask the public

coral torrent
#

Okay cool, then this is answered. Again we will have some more info in a post on our website as soon as its finished writing. Just to be clear, talking specifically about Reforger right now. A3 has nothing to do with this policy change right now.

paper prawn
# coral torrent Okay cool, then this is answered. Again we will have some more info in a post on...

Got to ask though, given the same game EULA clause being removed from Reforger is well known to be misrepresented in DayZ on a far wider basis, is its EULA going to be changed too, and will the upcoming post specify that exactly the same explanation/rules apply to DayZ as well? We had a post just this morning on Enfusion Modders discord where someone posted a rippers message quoting the game's EULA as a reason why modders in general can rip content...

#

I would note that ARMA 3 does not have this issue because that user content clause does not exist in ARMA prior to Reforger

soft egret
#

DayZ is being looked at.
A reforger blogpost about the reforger workshop will likely not talk about DayZ

paper prawn
#

Fair, hopefully the wheels are in motion on that side of the shop though. At least we can point to the change and the post to educate folks either way

soft egret
#

There is stuff ongoing on DayZ side about this. But dunno what outcome will be or when

paper prawn
#

To be quite frank, if the same changes are not made then to many it will imply that BI do not care about misdeeds in the DayZ space

#

I mean, at the end of the day, given Reforger and DayZ have the same clause and only one is considered important enough to change and clarify then I would think that myself

molten kraken
paper prawn
#

That's irrelevent to my statement though. Both workshops forbid IP theft. But the only difference in the last weeks is that Reforger's User Content clause in the game EULA is being changed (presumably because they thought that the original version was problematic) and DayZ's might be changed. The fact is that DayZ rippers continually send the message that BI allows ripping of mods due to spreading a falacy and untruth regarding the game EULA. The modding community knows that and BI know that (otherwise, why would Reforger's EULA be changed)... And there is a lot of content theft and unlawful monetization of ripped content in the DayZ space, far more of a problem than Reforger has

molten kraken
paper prawn
#

As an example, in the last 24 hours someone reported this conversation to the Enfusion Modders discord. Look at what the person reported uses as justification for their view... This is by far not an isolated event, and BI could kill this by making the same change to DayZ's game EULA that they are making to Reforger's. So my question is why it is uncertain that the change will be made at all?

CC07537B-A652-467E-93D0-8CA54E61697F.jpg
#

BTW, to avoid confusion, they were not talking about a config-only retexture mod...

glossy depot
#

I'd assume they're ripping the models and doing things with them. Then quoting that specific area in the User Created Content portion of the EULA

paper prawn
#

Exactly

glossy depot
#

Yeah, That's bullshit.

#

One reason I don't do DayZ things anymore.

paper prawn
#

And they spread this message to newbies to modding...

glossy depot
#

Yeah

#

"You're allowed to repack"

paper prawn
#

Yeah, even though it is not true, people believe them. And as I said, it is a widespread problem within that space, while, as far as I am aware, it is not an issue currently in Reforger simply because it uses a BI Workshop

#

Why they didn't just use ARMA 3's EULA I have no idea...

#

For the game that is

glossy depot
#

I think the EULA should apply to the engine itself and not just the games that run on it.

paper prawn
#

That fact is that the EULA is fine, but the way it is written, people use it to justify things it does not mean. After all the Tools EULA is the only thing that matters for modding, the game one is irrelevent. But BI obviously see an issue for Reforger... otherwise they would not be changing it. Would it not be a no brainer to see that the same EULA in DayZ has issues? Where people are abusing it! One conclusion could be that BI doesn't actually care that this (and mind-blowingly prevalent monetization) is happening in DayZ because they are making bank on the game...

echo orchid
flint geyser
#

how is the arma 3 warhammer 40k mod still on the steam workshop? do they have a license?

elfin mirage
#

Seeing as this is what BI lists 40k as but also Games workshops love for fan work of the 40k universe I highly doubt any of the 40k mods would get taken down unless it comes out to be ripped content

IMG_1483.png
#

But that’s just my food for thoughts

faint nacelle
#

(self made stuff with non with non ripped content)

flint geyser
#

that's great

hot marten
#

Eh, so long as you’re not stepping on their dollar lol

#

I heard a while ago they were trying to limit STL sales for 3d printed figures

#

Prolly remembering details wrong, but as long as there’s no money changing hands, you should be fine

small nexus
#

Hey, does anyone know if the Douglas A-26 mod was removed from the workshop?

manic laurel
#

Well, is it there?

sour granite
#

hello 2 question about reforger modding

  • can someone use arma 3 models ?
  • can someone pay/buy for a 3d model and then import in workbench to make it work ?
lapis quiver
faint nacelle
#

one can buy models as long as they are not stolen from somewhere there are plenty of mods that do that. What can not be paid for is the "putting into the game" part since the tools are non commercial

#

this channel is not really about such questions though. #reforger_questions would be the right place

sour granite
faint nacelle
#

👍

elfin heron
#

Arma 3 does have a licensed data pack coming Soon™ but its been that way for years now

soft egret
#

You can buy 3D models all you want. Make sure you follow their license requirements.
And that you're not buying a stolen/ripped model...

manic laurel
fierce wagon
#

After 15 days, 1 hour and 35 minutes still no response of the infringements team think_turtle

manic laurel
#

maybe 10 more minutes will do

fierce wagon
#

ok

tawdry surge
summer barn
#

Sorry for bringing up an old message, but there seems like there was a history of violations with this same person. I have just been informed the same again, but this time they repackaged the Korsac mod and all it's PBOs on its own here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3156214037

They are not adding Korsac as a dependency, nor are they attributing to the original source nor authors in any manner on the Workshop page. This is the original Korsac mod source:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3043043427

I'm also attaching a picture from the Workshop crawler.

image.png
summer barn
#

ok, after reaching out to them they have added the dependency under required items.

broken hornet
#

Bumping because there seems to be a thread from earlier this year about this same person

manic laurel
broken hornet
#

I’m more so reporting them so they get removed from this discord for ripping, im kind of scared to issue a DMCA given the fact that this group of people seem to be abusing the DMCA system and doxxing using it.

#

Atleast based on what I read from the last report on this person

manic laurel
broken hornet
#

Huh?

manic laurel
manic laurel
broken hornet
manic laurel
pliant oar
broken hornet
#

thats likely out of the question due to the cost but i'd be open to advice regardless 🙂

echo orchid
# broken hornet I’m more so reporting them so they get removed from this discord for ripping, im...

short version - you are legally required to provide your proper data on DMCA. I have filled over 1.3k since A3 was released, without having someone doxxed me

  1. my steam profile is 100% private
  2. i use an email that was created for this very purpose, not any of my private email account (the one used is legal at rhs etc)
  3. i use a PO Box address (i used to use my lawyer's address in the past - i had an agreement with him to do just that)
  4. i always provide all the necessary information in regards to ownership on files that are infringing / breaking the license. - pastebin / imgur are your friends here
#

@chilly silo can add to what i have wrote above if he deems necessary

chilly silo
# echo orchid <@109036182163173376> can add to what i have wrote above if he deems necessary

I will have to finish that guide to DMCAs I've been dithering over. Give me a few days.

The only thing i have to add to @echo orchid's advice is document your entire dev process, post on twitter Facebook etc on a 3rd party site that allows you to independently date mark things. That date will give you proof of when you made it. And then if you have to DMCA anyone you have all the pics, all the links to give to the DMCA team.

You need to remove any doubt you made it in the mind of the legal team.

broken hornet
#

thank you both, I will investigate my options

chilly silo
#

I will update the DMCA pages in the next few days

lapis quiver
hot marten
#

All I can think of having read that first screencap is how all you have to do to copyright something in Canada is literally mail it to yourself

#

I don’t know if that’s still accurate, cuz I learned it from my parents over a decade ago, but I think it’d be really funny to load my portfolio onto a thumb drive and mail it to myself lol

elfin heron
#

copyright is automatic

soft egret
dusty nimbus
manic laurel
dusty nimbus
#

the latter

#

It's a retexture off an asset store but the texture in their mod looks really close to the one from my mod

#

yup they ripped the texture from my mod

manic laurel
dusty nimbus
#

aight

#

I should start adding watermarks to my textures

lapis quiver
dusty nimbus
#

i highly doubt that they used the exact same camo swatch in the exact same way

manic laurel
dusty nimbus
#

a texture which was custom made for my mod

#

I'll send it over to infringements

native narwhal
dusty nimbus
#

i doubt they can produce receipts tho

cinder ridge
broken hornet
#

so multiple creators have been stolen from 😉

is that enough for a boot off the discord? 🥾

I also dm’d @zealous elm to explain but no response as of yet

manic laurel
#

as soon as it is confirmed internally, that's a permban
please do not gloat towards them as to increase the chance of things remaining the same during the investigation

jagged python
#

He's been in drama before

mighty badge
#

Okkay since this hit the fan, here is more proofs of stolen content in GREYZONE
pic1,2 - tarkov ripped aggressor parka
pic3 - ripped and retextured a3 vest
pic4 - tarkov ak mag texture (not used anywhere in mod just sitting in files)
pic5,6 possibly ripped stuff with no source (i may be wrong and this stuff was bought)

image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png
manic laurel
echo orchid
tawdry surge
#

I am believe the oldest is now over half a year old

#

There has also been a massive public report made here #ip_rights_violations message in hopes that a public discussion will result in more than unseen private emails...

manic laurel
#

@pliant oar can you take a(nother) look please?

#

Cc @midnight compass

manic laurel
tawdry surge
tawdry surge
# manic laurel then flamethrower it must be

Hopefully the flamethrower is going to be more that a simple slap on the wrist like a discord ban, this user has showed willingness to go around simple kick by making new accounts both on Arma Discord and Arma 3 and Arma Reforger. If it is somehow a reality to not just DMCA but remove workshop access it would be a great news

echo orchid
#

please stick to IP rights violations in this particular channel. stolen valor is not the purpose of this one (or this discord)

manic laurel
jagged python
dusty nimbus
green quartz
dusty nimbus
kindred loom
#

What's the general best practice if someone took a PBO from my public workshop mod and uploaded it in their own workshop mod?

plain rivet
marble coyote
#

If they have a server running with it, you can also file a DMCA at their hoster ^^

native narwhal
marble coyote
native narwhal
#

probably will, but the main point is that they dont have to

marble coyote
rustic copper
#

Actually, since the hoster is hosting the mod (unless it's a client side only mod), they are required to remove the files in question in case of a DMCA, even when it's not them putting it there.

And most gosters really don't like that, so usually shutdown the account or at least lock the account till the files are removed.

paper prawn
#

Mission file scripts, you've been lucky. I've had complete mission pbos stolen and reused. Funny thing is I probably would have helped them set things up if they'd asked 🤷

marble coyote
glossy depot
#

And no, I'm not planning on DMCAing B.I.

supple heron
#

the workshop belongs to Steam tho, not BI

#

it's a tool

glossy depot
#

did you even read what i said?

#

reforger mods are hosted on B.I.s workshop

supple heron
#

oh on Reforger ? my bad

faint nacelle
glossy depot
#

and you can't flag mods on the workshop if they're unlisted

rustic copper
glossy depot
#

I have a friend that has his IP stolen and reuploaded to the workshop, and the issue still persists.

#

I've seen the scripts.

#

They're obviously stolen from said friend.

elfin heron
#

file a dmca with BI

#

if BI don't do anything go to BI's service provider

#

if they don't do anything find some more people with a similar experience (of which i would imagine there's many if BI self host) and start a class action suit

faint nacelle
paper prawn
#

Man, BI is gonna have to up their legal department if they are going to run their own workshop for future games. No more not hearing from legal for months

neat lily
elfin heron
#

yes welcome to trying to get bohemia legal to do anything

lapis quiver
elfin heron
#

ive had exes text me back quicker than BI legal

neat lily
#

Multiple reports has been filled, multiple violations was highlighted, months have past since. For me it seems like for some reason BI don't want to take actions against some mods

faint nacelle
raven glade
#

I mean there has been multiple reports on a life server/s who's had malicious code, assets that isn't theirs, etc. BI acknowledge it and still to this day they are up and running. BI is great, lucky enough I can even interact with them daily if they are around but the legal department.... Yeah, I do not know what they are doing.

loud vortex
#

I mean they did put down the life mod

#

For a little bit

#

And then resolved the issue

jagged python
#

easy

raven glade
loud vortex
#

Wow

lapis quiver
lapis quiver
dusty nimbus
#

Hello, I've found out a unit uses a retexture of a mod I've removed off of the workshop. I believe they have ripped it, and are using it for their own purposes. I've attempted to join the unit discord server, but I am banned from it despite having no affiliation with said unit. I'm also ghosted by members of the cadre of the unit. What courses of action may i take in a situation like this?

marble coyote
dusty nimbus
#

I would but I'd need to know the workshop page

marble coyote
pliant jolt
naive burrow
raven glade
#

Wasn't really a huge deal which is why I didn't go forward with it.

naive burrow
#

First of all its already replaced and not in our mod anymore! 😉
Second it was re uploaded to our mod, because you did not managed to simply reupload your mod when the 1.0. update was released.
That was the reason why we put your cop uniform in our mod after asking on discord and us was told that its allowed.
In addition to that we put a file in our mod (as you already show) that clearly refers to you as creator.
And just for your information. You simply could have answered to me and say pls remove this from your mod...

But thats all you are complaining about? An asset thats not in our mod anymore?

image.png
raven glade
#

First of all you only just removed it recently and second of all if you ask and do not receive an answer then you must assume you do not have permission. If you are going to go ahead and use it anyway then why ask?

soft egret
#

But if your content is under a license that allows that (APL) then, he wouldn't even need to ask
(But I don't know if its APL like Bob implies it is)

naive burrow
#

Why not simply replying to my request and saying, thanks for asking but i dont want that stuff in your mod?
I assumed that you did not read our messages. That was the reason why we asked on the bi discord and got the answer above.
But thats all you are complaining about? An asset thats not in our mod anymore?

naive burrow
soft egret
raven glade
soft egret
#

But the old version that is there, was APL licensed.
So for the version that is up there, you did give your permission for it to be used.
No matter if you want it removed now (Talk to MarioE about that, he can probably help you with that)

raven glade
# soft egret But the old version that is there, was APL licensed. So for the version that is ...

No I wanted it removed over 4 months ago. Received the mod files but it wasn't removed. Now that, that is solved what about the malicious code that was found again after they were given their first warning? Not giving out names but BI knows exactly what Im talking about. Seems like popular servers get a slap on the wrist just because they bring in player count but hey, Im just creating conspiracies right? 😉

soft egret
#

Well was the malicious code reported to either the correct person, or using the report function on the workshop?

raven glade
soft egret
#

If no action was taken then the report was either found invalid or people were too busy to check it

manic laurel
#

hey, Im just creating conspiracies right? 😉
definitely, yes! 😂 and you show a lack of knowledge of BI actions's history regarding that.

raven glade
#

Discussion is over for me.

naive burrow
# raven glade No I wanted it removed over 4 months ago. Received the mod files but it wasn't r...

Pls show me the malicious code then.
We were warned once, because there was simply a loop like that:
#ifdef WORKBENCH class LOOOOOOOP{ void LOOOOOOOP() { #ifndef ELAN_WB_CHECK while(true) {} #endif } } LOOOOOOOP loopyLoop= LOOOOOOOP();

That was also the reason why our mod was blocked from the workshop.
And to be honest for me its not a malicious thing, since it just freezes the workbench when opening the mod and can easily bypassed with the start parameter: noGameScriptsOnInit

manic laurel
#

but for BI it is and that's what matters

slate token
glossy depot
#

If I use an APL-ND mod as a dependency. Write a custom component to interact with data from the ND mod would that be intended use and not break the license?

stiff jasper
mint ridge
#

Whatever's usually a vague way of saying have at it, just don't rip it or some such

mossy shale
mint ridge
#

i will now atomize

manic laurel
mossy shale
#

^ Yes

pure oyster
pure oyster
#

I would never Play on Elan. And the content you made is far under what I did before. its just that we all have to abide by the rules and Life servers breaking rules makes it harder for other servers in the future.

#

Stop being so cocky, your stuff is not anything special. Its just that your server has been putting a bad light for the Life community for Reforger since your mod has been removed how oftan? 3 Times and you dont even make your own assets its just taken and bought nothing special.

#

iam also done discussing this here since this channel is not made for that.

rapid cypress
plain rivet
#

Hindering any base game content from showing up or initializing is malicious and very likely against EULA or something

#

If not, just a scummy ass thing to do

#

Like, you’re a sleaze ball

tulip meadow
#

🤔

faint nacelle
#

This topic has ran its course. No need to add further comments.

shadow pier
# glossy depot If I use an APL-ND mod as a dependency. Write a custom component to interact wit...

As far as i know is umderstand the license: its no. But i think/hope that as long you dont edit there scripts it should be okay. Or you can ask the mod creator if its okay to build up on that mod/function

"No Derivatives - If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material."

https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/arma-public-license-nd

Bohemia Interactive
Arma Public License No Derivatives (APL-ND) | Bohemia Interactive

Bohemia Interactive is an independent game development studio, known for the Arma series, DayZ, Take On Mars, Ylands, and more.

tulip meadow
echo orchid
tulip meadow
#

Is it?
Then I really misunderstood.

glossy depot
#

If I call a function from an ND mod, I'm not building upon it, I'm simply using it for it's intended purpose.

#

With this logic I can't make a mod that adds a helper class for "material handling" as ND. Because if you call those functions in your mod it's breaking the license.

soft egret
#

Indeed. Making a mod that adds utility functions, and making it ND would be pointless.

#

Why would you make something ND if you want derivatives of it to be made

glossy depot
#

That's kinda how dependencies work. If I wanted to release a helper utility but also wanted to protect my intellectual property I'd release it as ND. Or be forced to write a custom license for it.

#

Using ND to protect it, but that defeats the purpose.

soft egret
#

If you want to protect your property you can also choose a different (yet non-nd license) and dictate whatever terms you want

#

If ND isn't actually what you want, then you shouldn't choose it

glossy depot
#

I shouldn't have to write a custom license just because B.I.. doesn't want to clarify what they consider intended use.

#

Well actually they have

#

And apparently calling functions from and ND mod isn't intended use of that mod. Lol

#

An*

glossy depot
#

For the sake of B.I. legal I hope that's not the case.

echo orchid
# 
means content based on the System Content, including modifications, improvements, enhancements or additions to the System Content provided by Customer, and including all adaptations as defined under the Copyright Designs and Patents Act, whether or not subject to copyright protection, but does NOT include any portion of the System Content incorporated or embedded in such Derivative Content.```
echo orchid
# glossy depot That meaning that ND mods cannot be used as dependencies? If that's the case ND ...

i had various talks several years ago with my lawyer (i work in a creative field where IP rights need to be protected - hence the on call lawyer for my office) in regards to choosing the right license that would allow me/us full legal control over the content provided by RHS.
The only way at that time, taking into account the external (from BI) workshop (valve's) was to have an ND license which we could enforce if needed, but generally speaking tolerating all dependency mods that were following our guidelines.

#

If that's the case ND mods are pointless entirely - i would not call ND mods pointless entirelly. I would call it a wrong license to use IF you want to have a mod that is built upon

glossy depot
#

The intended use of the mod should be considered in all licenses.

soft egret
#

The intended use of a mod is to be used be the user/player.
Not by other modders to modify further

glossy depot
#

Calling a function in a ND mod isn't modifying it. It's intended use is to add those functions lol

soft egret
#

A ND license doesn't prevent a player from using the mod.

glossy depot
#

But it prevents them from calling functions from an ND mod

soft egret
#

Some mods, are only intended to be looked at by players

glossy depot
#

hahahahaha

echo orchid
#

short version when i explained what i wanted to happen, after the explaining the modding process in detail
a. all mods are dependent to the base game -> no game = no working mods
b. a mod that does not function without another mod (dependency) is derivative in nature

glossy depot
#

This whole set up seems like it's just gonna lead B.I. to legal trouble.

echo orchid
#

create a mod with functions, yet have said mod use an ND clause?

#

create a mod that calls a function from an ND mod?

#

ND basically means - it is provided as it is, i do not want any modification/use/etc besides what and how it is provided

glossy depot
#

Yeah I completely understand. ND mods aren't even supposed to be used as dependencies.

#

and that can definitely lead to legal trouble.

echo orchid
#

why?

#

you get to tolerate such dependencies if you want to, but still have the ability not to if that is what you prefer

glossy depot
#

The problem lines in people that won't tolerate it. Pretty sure B.I. wouldn't like to get hundreds of DMCAs because they're hosting mods that are breaking an ND license because "intended use" doesn't exist for that license.

echo orchid
#

you mean in the APL-ND license?

#

what would be the intended use for a mod (of whatever sort you can think of)?

#

maybe i don't get what you would like to have under intended use

glossy depot
#

To be used obviously. probably more specifically as a dependency

soft egret
#

If people chose ND license, because their "intended use" is to not derive from it, and then DMCA other mods that derived from it and violated the license.
Why is that BI's problem when modders violate other modders licenses?

echo orchid
soft egret
#

If a mod says no derivatives, you shouldn't make a derivative blobdoggoshruggoogly
If you think its stupid to make a ND mod, tell that to the mod author, and he'll tell you "no but I want it that way"

echo orchid
#

^...and if you want derivative (your case dependency), then don't use an ND license

glossy depot
#

I'm not writing a custom license, sorry not sorry.

soft egret
#

If that is what you want, thats fine.
But why do you try to dictate what other people should want?

glossy depot
#

I'm not

manic laurel
glossy depot
#

But the intended use of a mod should be to be used as a mod

#

regardless of it's license

soft egret
#

I would agree. Making a mod without anyone being able to use it is pretty pointless

glossy depot
#

and technically that's what an ND mod is

faint nacelle
#

eh?

echo orchid
#

sorry what?

faint nacelle
#

it means you cant build on it

#

you can still use it

glossy depot
#

Pufu in here saying that ND mods can't legally be used as dependencies

soft egret
#

building upon != use

Use as modder != use as player

glossy depot
#

make up your mind

echo orchid
glossy depot
#

No

faint nacelle
#

mods generally are meant to be used by players

glossy depot
#

Not if their ND apparently

manic laurel
faint nacelle
#

they just run the mod

#

I think you are heavily misunderstanding something here

glossy depot
echo orchid
manic laurel
#

I make a helicopter mod, with a cool 3D model and a cool heli lift script.

  • if I make it ND, people can only use and play with this helicopter
  • if I make it non ND, people can retexture my 3D model by hidden selections or call the script in other mods

what is wrong here?

echo orchid
#

@coral torrent - press enter mate 🙂

tulip meadow
#

But is it though? I still don't get it.
Example:
Mod A is under ND license and function_x is giving out a value y.
Mod B (your mod) is calling function_x from Mod A and is using the value y for following calculations.
How is that breaking the license when Mod A in itself is not used as a derivation?

coral torrent
#

I stated this before, but derviatives in the context of software are very missunderstood. If you have a system library which source code is under a protective license that has similar clauses to our APL-ND you can still use it. It provides public facing apis that are intended for communication with it. You can use anything that is exposed by it. This is not building upon. That term has a very specific legal meaning in ip rights. Same as remix. Build upon can maybe best be understood if you talk about images. If you take a famous painting, copy it, add a fancy overlay on top and want to redistribute that you need to pay attention to that caluse. Because you share what is part of the original IP. You added something on top but you can clearly still see it as part of what you give to people. To remix would mean you e.g. rearrange parts of a painting, make a collage of muliple paintings by glueing them on top of each other etc. Transforming covers situations where you e.g. change the shape of the painting into something creative that itself become some expression of creativity, worth protecting.

Now with that out the way, what has been asked here boils down to: If my code includes if (DadsNDMod.SomeMethod()) ... or new ND_SomeCustomClass() is that a derivative - and the answer is NO!. You did not include any of the original IP in your code. Calling a method is not distributing protected IP. The class and method names can not, under no circumstances, ever - be copyrighted.

In general you need to ask yourself the question: "Do any of the files I upload in my mod contain any of the original texture, model, script to a degree that that alone would be reconizeable and thus protectable by IP rights". If the answer is yes, ND clause prevents you to do that. If the answer is no, this is a strong indicator of it not being a problem.

The question of "does this mod compile without the other ND licensed one present" is entirely irrelevant for an IP rights assessment. This is also part of the reason why SAP and Oracle lost court rulings in the EU over the topic of people creating "compatible" plugins/files for their otherwise propriatety softwares.

The laws on this topic are very old, and assume physical media. But the modern interpretations of intent by EU (and for this sake also US) courts have been what you would expect. You can not think on the meta level. you have to look at the concrete expresion of the IP and what YOU are sharing with others. So in case of Bi game mods, only the contents of your mod you upload to the workshop. If you look at that (and only that!) and find that "hey this sure looks like Arkensors ugly texture" then that might be reason for concern - but only then.

glossy depot
#

fair use, "intended use"

#

call it what you will.

#

specifically because the user wouldn't be modifying or making derivations of said functionality

#

One would simply be using it for it's "intended"/fair use.

soft egret
#

"fair use" (in section e.) refers to the copyright concept/legal term of "fair use". Its not just a different wording for "intended"

manic laurel
#

no offense meant, what I read is "I dislike being restricted by ND"

as in, a mod should be simple enough that if I download it, I should be able to use its content (OK) and build upon
regarding software, we have conflicting views here between PuFu and Arkensor where ND includes or not running scripts

#

(if I got it right, please correct me were I to be wrong)

glossy depot
#

I restrict my character mod to ND. Specifically for the same reason Ark an Pufu do their mods.

echo orchid
#

The question of "does this mod compile without the other ND licensed one present" is entirely irrelevant for an IP rights assessment. This is also part of the reason why SAP and Oracle lost court rulings in the EU over the topic of people creating "compatible" plugins/files for their otherwise propriety softwares.
let's forget about mods for a second. You are saying that if code B does not work without code A (and code A is protected by an ND license) that is ok?

#

does it modify it? or just calls a function present in code A

coral torrent
#

Something like CBA could be published under APL-ND and it would make a lot of sense. They maintain the functionality and compatiblity with the game and do not want every other mod using one of their utility methods to copy paste the code - as it might break in the future, the logs might mention CBA and then boom people come to the CBA team to cry for help. With ND any reuploads from part of their scripts an be taken down, people understand that they are supposed to build compatible mods but not reupload parts of CBA into their own codebase and the CBA team has full control to ensure future fixes and performance improvements will reach all users.
You can use this thinking and apply it to different other mods that add assets, vehicles etc. it must not be restricted to scripts

echo orchid
#

for A3, we had code that was compatible with CBA for instance, without actually having CBA as a dependency.
That code would make RHS compatible with CBA attachments, but it wasn't necessary that CBA would be present to for RHS to work, it would only allow, if CBA was loaded, to use it together with RHS

#

as with a lot of other compatibility mods.

coral torrent
echo orchid
#

ok, what if it builds/modify it?

dusk swan
#

can we simplify this explanation?

#

if i make a script under ND can you use it as a dependancy yes or no

glossy depot
#

NO

#

but if you tolerate it, sure

dusk swan
#

so unless i report it, people are allowed to use it?

coral torrent
# echo orchid does it modify it? or just calls a function present in code A

Depends on how it is being modified. There is one allowed way and one that is not.

Not allowed: You take the original function definition, copy paste it into your mod as override, change two lines or so. and upload it. I open your mod, I look at the script file you uploaded, I see the original code in full length that someone else wrote. It was not your code. You broke ND license.

Allowed: This does not apply to A3 but works nicer in DZ and AR

modded class LicenseModType
{
  override void SomeComplexScript(int someArg)
  {
    // Apply fix to args because of game update
    someArg *= 2;
    super.SomeComplexScript(someArg);
  }
}

Here you can add code before or after calling the original implementation, none of this code is from the original author, it is your own work. You can safely upload this.

coral torrent
dusk swan
#

can we get some specific examples

coral torrent
#

I posted multiple examples in my last messages, please read them

soft egret
#

Modifying someones script function by adding code infront/after it, is not a derivative? meowsweats

Say someone makes a mod that makes a soldier dance, with a script-written animation.
If I make a sub-mod, and override its method and rotate it so the unit dances but upside down. That is not a derivative?

If someone made a "blue plastic soldiers" mod, and I make a sub-mod, override its script to change a "color" argument and make the soldiers green. That is not a derivative?

dusk swan
#

say i make a script that coincides with a flashlight model to change the color of the light, and make it ND

is someone allowed to come along and add a function to make the light flash?

coral torrent
soft egret
#

Yeah my examples would work the same as your code example

tardy mango
soft egret
#

Guess if I wanted that, I would need to make a custom license that says
"You cannot make mods that in any way change/edit the functionality/behavior of my mod" to get my examples to be not allowed

coral torrent
dusk swan
soft egret
#

Does the same also apply to config files?
Say I add a config edit that just changes one property of a prefab, like the texture on a 3D model (Make a tank model be pink)

I'm not including anything of the original mod in my sub-mod, except the property name of the texture (But the property name for that, is provided by BI, not by the original mod, so that wouldn't matter)

coral torrent
tulip meadow
#
  1. create mod
  2. have license state that loading it is illegal
  3. have people load it
  4. sue
  5. ...
  6. profit 📈
    ||obviously no sarcasm whatsoever||
paper prawn
#

I am a little confused @coral torrent simply because the specific license, APL-ND says "No Derivatives - If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material." Surely that implies that PuFu's view is correct for this specific license? Or am I missing somthing

glossy depot
#

I would assume regardless of license that section 107 of the Copyright Act would come into effect.

#

defining what is fair use of said material.

coral torrent
coral torrent
glossy depot
#

You have no copyright laws pertaining to fair use of material?

#

If so can you provide me a link to them?

tardy mango
#

@coral torrent Now just btw since i started reading the APL-ND License throughout this discussions.

License grant

  1. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Public License, the Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the Licensed Material to:
    a. reproduce and Share the Licensed Material, in whole or in part, for NonCommercial and ArmaOnly purposes only; and
    b. produce and reproduce for NonCommercial and ArmaOnly purposes only, but not Share Adapted Material.

Does that mean someone can just copy-paste the code of a APL-ND mod and reupload it (with the correct Attribution) as long as nothing gets added to the code along the way?

glossy depot
#

but you can mod his class?

tardy mango
#

Apparently to the definition of acooma, yes. You can as long as you dont add something of the original script into your script

glossy depot
#

im assuming variable names could be used?

tardy mango
#

He said calling a function of mod A in mod B is fine

glossy depot
#

I was literally just concerned about how the ND license was worded. And was then told that a lawyer said that ND mods couldn't even be used as dependencies.

coral torrent
#

Variable names alone are also not protectable. Same as you can not copyright a single English word or a short sentence. There is no exact threshold, this is why you need a court to rule on it and not have some coded decision maker that says "more than 50 characters matched, it must be the same content" 😉

tardy mango
coral torrent
tardy mango
#

Maybe you can also suggest that one of said department makes themselves a dc account and answers questions in here directly q:^)

faint nacelle
#

That is a bit unlikely to happen.

coral torrent
#

Given how often the same topics are asked it is probably better if we buffer the requests and deliver back answers and update our permanent reading sources such as the ip rights biki page with frequently asked questions. I will try and get some answers and examples on what has been discussed today on there as well.

soft egret
tardy mango
#

Or

tardy mango
coral torrent
#

Yes this was the result of many questions about that, but the discussion today has shown me that the topic of ND licenses and "how can I make people use my mod but not take anything from it" needs some easy to grasp explainations, so maybe another post is needed 🙂

#

Normally one would hope that we would not spend so much time on this unholy channel. It saddens me that so many people are stealing without talking to each other, giving credits or trying to cooperate. Forcing other mod makers to try and find out how they can protect their mods. As content producer for BI games your worry should be about the mod itself and not theft 😦
Though as it is often the case, common sense applies. Did you create the content? No? So go and ask if you can use it. Ip rights are not needed for every small thing.

tardy mango
#

Agreed

glossy depot
#

I wasn't trying to start arguments or create hostility, I just assumed there was some sort of fair use protection. And I thought that the ND license was vague about such things.

echo orchid
coral torrent
# glossy depot I wasn't trying to start arguments or create hostility, I just assumed there was...

I think it is important to also point out that laws and licenses do not provide a list of all possible scenarios and as a kind of white- and blacklist. It will never do that or else if you forget one case some bad actor can abuse it and say "it was never meant to also cover x", crippling courts to do their job. That is why you usally consult a lawyer who knows the exact wording of the rules, relevant rulings of courts that interpreted it and then can give you their assessement if what you plan to do will work or not. But for our little bubble here we will try and clarify most of the relevant questions ever to be had when needed.
it is also worth mentioning that there are bad lawyers who might have read a license from BI but are e.g. not from the EU and have no idea how it works here or even if from the EU, they have too little experience and are overlooking something. You can't ask a general lawyer about your mod problem, and even a specialist in digital IP rights will have to do a lot of work to comprehend the legal framework of licenses, EULAs and the actual technical implementation of some things.

elfin heron
#

Another unit ripped textures from my friend's unit's mod, proceeded to modify the textures and reupload into their mod. Can somebody please confirm that they are indeed in the wrong so that I can stop this person harassing my unit members, thanks

#

(No license is attached to the unit mod)

glossy depot
elfin heron
#

yep there we go

#

i expect that'll make its way to them given they're in a discord dedicated to sharing drama

#

thanks

proud wyvern
#

For the record, the offending textures were removed like an hour after I was messaged asking them to be removed 😅

faint nacelle
proud wyvern
#

Just didnt think about it since the other mods I use freely allow retexturing 🙂

manic laurel
#

kudos to you for doing the right thing®! 🥂

carmine pilot
#

heeey, so I'm wondering about some licensing stuff in Reforger:

if I'm making a mod for Reforger can I use and edit assets made by Bohemia? for example I need helicopter engine sound and in Enfusion I see there are a few, so I want to duplicate them to my project (which is an option in Enfusion), edit .wav and put it in my helicopter modification with appropriate credits later.

can I do that legally, or is it against TOS?

soft egret
#

You can reference them in the game files.
Copying and reuploading them inside your mod would be a copyright violation unless there is a license on the asset permitting you to do that. Which as far as I know there is not.
In some cases BI chooses to tolerate it, because our own assets going into mods for our own game.
But that is a case-by-case thing.

#

You could list the specific files you want to take and mail the E-Mail in Channel description to ask about it.

carmine pilot
#

I see, thank you!

rustic copper
#

How is it possible that known TOS breaking subjects are still on the workshop?
I can understand it's a lot of work to monitor, but even a simple check on name/description can already do some initial flagging on upload...

https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/60DD519A395A9918-ProjectWasteland
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/610627B0B797E02E-Fallout2280Factions
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/60FE02C19362A222-Fallout2280Clothes

Arma Reforger
Project Wasteland - Arma Reforger

This is my take on a clothing,weapon and character pack that is inspired by the Fallout New Vegas conflict between the NCR and Legion.

Arma Reforger
Fallout 2280 Factions - Arma Reforger

New California Republic - US

Caesar's Legion - USSR

Brotherhood of Steel - FIA

Arma Reforger
Fallout 2280 Clothes - Arma Reforger

Models purchased on SketchFab and CG Trader from;

Windstride

Palasky

faint nacelle
lapis quiver
faint nacelle
# lapis quiver Of course

is it of course becaue Fallout mods have always done that before or is it of course someone has admitted to that or someone has looked into the mods?

lapis quiver
#

First. But i was wrong its using models that are purchased

rustic copper
lapis quiver
manic laurel
paper prawn
#

Bit different though in Reforger since BI are responsible for what's on the workshop though isn't it?

#

Rather than Valve

coral torrent
#

Neither are responsible/liable for the contents of the platform (Hosting privilege in the EU), only when notified about infringements one must react, which Valve and us do.

pale leaf
#

So then here's a question. If a mod team makes a fallout mod but none of it is stolen and is either hand made or gotten off a free/paid modeling website. Are they then good? And to add on to it with previous being said are they allowed to use names like the NCR and Legion in their mod.

faint nacelle
pale leaf
#

If those models are also hand made and not ripped when they're bought should also be good no?

faint nacelle
#

it is possible since the makers likely have no permission to use the IP

#

if hypothetically all permissions and legitimacy checks out, of course there is no issue

#

but a project needs to start from obtaining the permissions

crystal geode
molten kraken
crystal geode
#

That's the problem most people aren't

molten kraken
#

(as I understood the different case law, like the one for the hummer)

faint nacelle
crystal geode
#

Lol not wat I'm trying to say what I'm getting at is that's the problem

molten kraken
faint nacelle
#

yes. in general people is why we cant have nice things

crystal geode
#

Unfortunate well thx for the clarification

sacred sedge
#

BGS has stated over and over if there are no direct ports or money being made they are fine with fan made projects. and as far as using names and imagery again falls under fair use.

#

if just making a model based on a IP was illegal youd see Disney go after all the people making Star wars shorts with unreal ect.

elfin heron
#

its still illegal regardless of enforcement or not

#

just like handling a salmon suspiciously in england

sacred sedge
#

Fair use makes it legal

elfin heron
faint nacelle
#

it is a term people use wrongly all the time

#

and where has such statements been made?

#

so far nobody ever provides the actual proof of such things

#

its all "trust me bro I read it on the internet"

elfin heron
#

no that makes it legal goat didnt you know

#

you can cite reddit posts as case law

sacred sedge
#

well for one now that BGS fall under Microsoft its governed by the Game Content Usage Rules. and that basicly states that as long as a "item" is not a port, porn or sold then its good to go.

elfin heron
#

lol

#

no

#

just because a parent company changes doesnt mean their eula magically changes

sacred sedge
#

all Microsoft game studios are governed my these rules.

faint nacelle
#

from Bethesda or MS

#

if you do that then it should be kosher.

#

so far nobody has done that though

manic laurel
faint nacelle
#

or they have received a "no" and dont come back to tell that

#

bought assets would be a no no according to these rules too

#

since they are sold agains these rules

sacred sedge
faint nacelle
#

well come back to tell when you get a reply then

sacred sedge
manic laurel
#

there is also a difference between agreement-less usage and agreed usage

e.g Disney replied a strong no about Star Wars on both, so a parallel IP like "Universe Conflicts" should be created, with Bright Invader and Mike Groundrunner and without Empire troopers and such

#

(and legal-wise, it's always good to assume it's a no unless proven otherwise, and not the other way around)

sacred sedge
#

MGS is historically far more open to fan made projects. The Halo IP is very lose with what they allow under MS rules.

the Mouse has always had a tight grip on its IP

#

covered

manic laurel
#

true, but that's assumptions (about the penultimate message)
if you manage to get permission, it's permission for you (and your modding team eventually)
not a community-wide one, unless specified otherwise

bottom line, just ask for permission to use what's not yours and get evidence that you got permission, should be enough

sacred sedge
manic laurel
sacred sedge
#

doesn't change? Shes the Microsoft support Rep i got

Untitled_-_Google_Chrome_4_14_2024_2_06_15_PM.png
faint nacelle
#

I dont think they are official rep. just a community helper.

#

or a bot in worst case

sacred sedge
#

ill ask for more solid proof but this is an answer from an offical Microsoft source

manic laurel
sacred sedge
#

thats the MS Game Content Usage Rules

faint nacelle
#

this is not a official representative

image.png
sacred sedge
#

yes

manic laurel
#

and even if so, these rules do not cover using the IP just like that, especially in other games
I would rather have a MS representative make it clear once and for all

#

as far as I know, Halo is (was?) a specific case (these rules are not what allowed Halo mods)

#

used this opportunity to fix Bethesda's link on that page

faint nacelle
#

Halo enjoeyd the permissive IP use rules before Microsoft too I recall

sacred sedge
#

ive asked to be referred to a microsoft rep, Lyieny is confident i will get the same answer

#

i will post an update

sacred sedge
#

Rep said the same thing but will email me a solid ansewer later today.

rancid pine
#

Because like the thing thats strange with this argument is that Microsoft owns Bethesda so it would be okay to get permission from Microsoft and if thats not true then i have a question regarding when i asked about contacting the model author of the Arma 3 UH-80 and was told that even if he agreed that BI technically owns it now and i would need there permission so how is this any different than the microsoft permission of Bethesda?

#

is there an actual contact to BI legal?

plain rivet
rancid pine
vivid wave
#

Check channel description

crimson ingot
plain rivet
#

And follow the GCUR

#

Other than that, its go crazy

#

Though, we can't take from the games, we can take the same samples from the same source that bungie used

#

One of our devs owns one of the sound thingies that Bungie used for the CE AR

lapis quiver
echo orchid
lapis quiver
#

Why did he said he contacted the Author of the A3 UH80 and "BI owns it now"

echo orchid
#

BI has used external artists since A2. Even so, the content such external artist (which afaik isn't the case for the UH80, but there is a slight chance that i might be wrong) have provided is directly commissioned. As such the assets are the property of BI and only BI, the IP is fully transfered over.

lapis quiver
#

I was just curious if BI even use external artists but i guess everyone does

vivid wave
#

They do

manic laurel
#

I'm an artist

vivid wave
#

Lies

manic laurel
#

…in scripts, I do ASCII art

#

look: <°))))>)))-<

vivid wave
manic laurel
#

nope, as that's not ASCII art

vivid wave
#

Oh, you're not the one who asks the question

#

Boo

lapis quiver
lapis quiver
manic laurel
#

thanks blobcloseenjoy

faint nacelle
# 
<°}}}>}}}-<<
elfin heron
#

the dad jokes are getting worse

rancid pine
#

Where do I report someone ripping something from my mod?

faint nacelle
#

then workshop flagging/dmca

rancid pine
#

It’s only dependency is bgone and in the mod details it thanks my dev teams mod and our launcher is straight ripped

image-3.png
faint nacelle
#

then probably the flag report tool in the workshop

rancid pine
#

Copy thank you!

manic laurel
elfin heron
#

i never implied they were good to begin with 🫡

teal galleon
#

Hi everyone,
As Operation FrenchPoint Project Leader, producing French Army models since OFP, I want to declare an IP rights violation regarding an asset distributed by FOF team on Reforger Workshop : https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/6125135DC090054C-AT4-test
The asset in question is an AT-4 CS originally produced by Operation FrenchPoint for ArmA 3 only under APL-ND and rightly distributed on Steam Workshop : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2039959656

I have filed a DMCA request on Reforger Workshop, and would like BI moderator to keep under surveillance "constellationserveur" and "FOF" team.

elfin heron
#

this channel is not for reports

#

nor is it for witch hunts

burnt haven
#

Wanted to inform whoever is looking into it, that this mod was published APL, and relies on a $12 model (which we also purchased), and RPG animations, and a bgone dependency

#

The folks who posted the original mod dont have any IP rights to it

rancid pine
#

I mean the only problem I see with it is that you guys admitting to ripping it for our mod.

burnt haven
#

we didnt rip anything lol

#

we are within licensing for it all

rancid pine
#

Then purchasing said gun after

#

You pulled the gun from our mod did you not?

burnt haven
#

We removed everything from your mod that was posted under APL license and kept the igla, re-released it and credited your mod

rancid pine
#

Well we were told to flag it and will considering it was pulled out of our mod

#

If it violated it will be taken down if not it will stay up

burnt haven
rancid pine
#

Yes but you pulled it from our model with our colliders even and re published it and bought that gun after the fact you can take models from other peoples models as you did not purchase a license to use it originally which is probably why you guys removed it until you did

burnt haven
#

We removed it because we thought we misunderstood the license

rancid pine
#

@echo orchid @faint nacelle can either of you clarify this

burnt haven
#

@hollow rain already spoke to klean about it

rancid pine
#

Well we’re probably just gonna reupload our mods with a new license to deter people from piggybacking off of work

burnt haven
#

You're welcome to, however what we used is under the license in which it was published

#

I dont see how we're "piggybacking" either.
We dont accept donations
We released the mod APL
We credited you in the description
All that happens with this mod is people have fun shooting at helicopters. You guys dont own any of the actual intellectual property

rancid pine
#

Just make sure you guys changed the textures to the one that came with the model since Provo reworked them and are his

#

Or we’re suppose to be rather

#

You also need to ensure the LOD’s and colliders are all your own

burnt haven
rancid pine
#

That is our work then

#

But again just ensure your LOD’s and colliders are on it as that would be our property not yours otherwise than you should be fine

burnt haven
rancid pine
#

With this fancy new mod team guys on about you think you could just make your own LOD’s and such for it and not take it from others

#

I mean you guys can be this way if you want but it’s a courtesy we’re asking you not to use our stuff and you guys just don’t seem to care

terse current
# burnt haven

"You must attribute the material in a manner specified by the author or licensor"

#

We have stated multiple times we don't endorse your use of the material at all.

#

Yet you decided having beef is better than just taking that model you bought and making one yourself.

burnt haven
#

You would rather force us to remake the same mod than allow us to use it on a server that generates no profit LOL

rancid pine
#

It’s one of those that you guys didn’t ask you just pulled out XOB

#

Which we’re telling you not too

terse current
#

And just to be clear. Klean knows about this behavior? @burnt haven

#

And endorses this?

rancid pine
#

Supposedly

#

And also if any mod is APL we’re allowed to go take there stuff and reuse it without permission @terse current

#

Atleast all of our stuff is under the new license now to prevent it happening again

burnt haven
#

Great!

#

We will wait for bohemia to weigh in, and if we need to remake it we will

terse current
#

And just to be clear. Klean knows about this behavior? @burnt haven

#

And endorses this?

#

Intentionally causing problems isn't really a Streamers M.O. You know? They usually stream video games to make money. Drama is a direct conflict of interest so I find this entire thing completely out of pocket and strange.

rancid pine
#

I sort of just wish a BI rep would show up 😂😂 so we can sort of just let it get handled either way

burnt haven
#

seriously lmfao

rancid pine
#

I wanna puff my chest when it’s ya know worth it

terse current
#

What happened to that personal apology letter and stating you'd leave this shit alone?

#

You just woke up today and decided you wanted to keep pushing buttons?

rancid pine
#

Well regardless I do wanna know this apl thing

burnt haven
#

keep it to the intellectual property bro if you have an issue on that level DM me LOL

rancid pine
#

Cuz it is interesting if so

terse current
rancid pine
#

Guys keep it on the igla

burnt haven
#

Ill wait for a BI rep, we're way off topic

terse current
#

No you're right. I'll get the answer to the question you never answered somewhere else.

#

Let BI deal with the legal. I'll cut out the middle man for everything else.

#

Have a fantastic day bud.

faint nacelle
#

who took and what exactly?

#

@terse current @rancid pine @burnt haven in the future. refrain from wall of text if you want answers

burnt haven
#

Claims we stole their launcher, was posted under APL with other mods we didnt want, took just the launcher, purchased the model and reuploaded

#

theyre saying their IP is the collider and LOD

faint nacelle
#

dont take someones shit

burnt haven
#

What did we take exactly?

faint nacelle
#

I dont know

rancid pine
#

You took the xob from our mod and reuploaded it

faint nacelle
#

you said you took something blobdoggoshruggoogly

burnt haven
#

The launcher is a BGONE launcher with a model swap

#

with RPG animations

rancid pine
#

Essentially they took our XOB of our launcher and uploaded it and credited us. Which had our own modifications on the model from personal blender work. Then uploaded it

faint nacelle
#

I believe I told you some time ago in dms that if you buy a same model and make your new stuff with it thats good

#

but taking someone elses stuff is not kosher

terse current
#

@faint nacelle Would it be better for me to contact bohemia legal via email or the report section on the workshop?

faint nacelle
#

probably

rancid pine
terse current
#

Would you happen to have it on hand for me?

#

And is there a specific department of bohemia legal I need to address?

faint nacelle
#

id suppose the one in the channel topic

burnt haven
#

This is (in totality) the IP being claimed

image.png image.png
faint nacelle
#

well remove it and make your own

terse current
#

Thank you.

faint nacelle
#

lets everyone buy that launcher and make million addons with it

#

the model maker would probably be happy about that

terse current
#

^

burnt haven
faint nacelle
#

this kind of stuff should be god damn manageable without third party adult telling you what to do

burnt haven
#

I agree

terse current
#

I already attempted to handle this with them without Bohemia's involvement. My friends have been laughed at and told to piss off by this man.

faint nacelle
#

in good modding spirit you guys could have also shared the silly blobs

#

but anyway, make new blobs man

burnt haven
#

Especially considering we dont stand to make any money off of our server, and dont plan to

faint nacelle
#

no no

burnt haven
#

Fair enough, ill get them cookin' now

faint nacelle
#

shhh

#

dont add more gas

#

just shh

burnt haven
#

okiedokie

faint nacelle
#

and make new blobs and we can carry on with our sunday

burnt haven
#

its saturday

faint nacelle
#

I AM FROM THE FUTURE

burnt haven
#

dear GOD

faint nacelle
terse current
#

Lmao Wait.

#

That APL argument is irrelevant bud.

faint nacelle
#

shhhhh

#

we move on

terse current
#

Just time me out for an hour dog.

#

It's for my own good.

faint nacelle
#

!mute @terse current 1h cold shower time

edgy coralBOT
faint nacelle
#

🙏

rancid pine
#

Good lord we’ll have a nice night guys

paper prawn
#

PsiSyn anyone?

#

And a ton of others in the ARMA/DayZ space over the years, using ripped mods, encouraging rippers, advertising ripped maps... lol

#

But a request, can we get an ARMA 3 IP rights and Reforger IP rights channel? Second time recently that we've had 100s of messages on Reforger issues...

pliant oar
paper prawn
#

Actually that would be a great idea

#

Just been a few times recently where you wake up with 100+ new messages 🙂

faint nacelle
#

could be tested out at least.

fossil basalt
#

Good idea 👍

midnight compass
#

@terse current @rancid pine Hello, @burnt haven has done no wrong here and acted in good spirit, we were contacted about if it was alright to perform their actions on your content based on the provided APL license beforehand, which grants basically full use, copy, reproducibility, sharing and remixing of your material in any shape or form that they want within Arma Reforger and for non commercial purposes.

You did upload it as APL and were credited, as is good manners in such an instance. You can, of course, update a different version of the mod that is not eligible for derivatives, but this will not affect what has been derived from the original mod in question.
While @burnt haven has not broken any rules and is free to use the derivative mod as they choose, if you wish to work out a different agreement amongst yourselves, you absolutely may.
It is clear that no harm was meant, as the uploading of the mod with an APL license directly implies an awareness that derivatives can and may be made of said mod. This is obviously a misunderstanding based on a mistake, but it's unfair to infer malice under the circumstances.

Please be sure to select and understand the licenses correctly to avoid mishaps like these. It looks that the kind of license you wanted to publish the mod is APL-ND in order to avoid any derivatives or control them.

As for clarifications, complaints and more regarding the modding platform you can then always contact me, I can always be pinged here as well.

paper prawn
#

This is why Steam Workshop is better... waiting for all the Reforger rips of ARMA 3 and ADPL-SA DayZ content now on BI's workshop

paper prawn
#

Also, are Reforger mods not binarized? If they are, how did they get that part of the model? Honest question, I have no idea

paper prawn
#

The amusing thing about APL is that no one can do the same thing to the derivative mod lol... Only to the original...

Licence_Selection.jpg
rustic copper
#

With A3 is was at least manageable to put a license on each pbo, to ensure correct usage.
With Reforger that's a lot harder... Even when it's harder to rip content from it.

In the end; no matter the license, always ask first and have an agreement before doing anything that may cause issues afterwards.

keen trout
midnight compass
midnight compass
spiral bough
#

(and depending on search query comes off top of google search)

kindred loom
native narwhal
kindred loom
#

So, how come DMCAs are still successful then?

midnight compass
native narwhal
#

giving a fictional example, imagine I enter a software coding competition and use some code that was released on GitHub with MIT license, then I win the competition and am awarded the prize. The author of the original code might make a claim on my code and quickly update the license to some commercial one and try to sue me. But i could potentially demonstrate with some wayback machine that license was MIT up to some point in time AND that the code I used was pulled BEFORE the license change.

pliant oar
#

it's likely there was in past legal battle about someone releasing something with wrong or no license by mistake, taking that down soon afterward and replacing with intendent / correct / not missing license ... and theirs lawyers were capable to win the takedown of derivate appearing inbetween ... since then companies will not waste time to trying to figure it out and just take the problematic IP out of theirs ecosystem ... so i expect it also depends on situation what lead to the publishing , also there could be ill intent to publish stuff with wrong / no license into internet ecosystem to damage the owner etc. , thus no or free license doesn't always equal that it really is

native narwhal
pearl junco
# midnight compass <@223938140291858441> <@527024575515459584> Hello, <@631077695589056535> has don...

uhm sent you a dm regarding a licensing / coypright case, explaining what happened etc. 4 days ago. Im sure you get a lot of dm‘s and a lot of work to do so im totally fine if it takes time. Just wanting to make sure you saw it, or someone saw it. Also reported it on the workshop itself as this seems the more „official“ way. Everything further, what actions I already took are also explained in my dm.

warm idol
#

Just making sure, just because I dont own the contents of a mod, If I know they are not allowed am I allowed to report a mod?

#

Like if a mod is using assets ripped from another game

manic laurel
warm idol
#

Alright, thanks

manic laurel
#

And you can report to BI in any case

warm idol
#

Im assuming through the email in the channel desc, correct?

manic laurel
#

correct (or the BI Workshop if Reforger)

warm idol
#

Thanks lou

midnight compass
#

@pearl junco Handled.

pearl junco
ruby halo
#

Got a guy uploading our nd stuff as apl

d1d97d95-f5ac-4f26-82ac-e95d37c4b3a0.png
faint nacelle
ruby halo
soft egret
#

Report button on the item

ruby halo
#

🫡

snow olive
# ruby halo Got a guy uploading our nd stuff as apl

Is anything going on with this? It's all still up on the workshop, it's been reported. I dunno how long this stuff takes, but seems pretty cut and dry to me as far as it just being repackaged to advertise a community.