other-games

[tepid wadi]

100%. New recipes, cosmetics, etc.

[tranquil cove]

like for things that interest me, and my profession

[tepid wadi]

Not to mention you gotta get the materials somehow

[tranquil cove]

i would go out and explore

[tepid wadi]

Oh yeah, it's definitely a balance factor, but that's part of the joy of the challenge with MMOs. You're balancing 1000 juggling pins at once. If it was easy, we'd have more good MMOs, lol

[tranquil cove]

in UO mining could be separate from blacksmithing, youd have players who mined, and then sold ores to blacksmiths

[tepid wadi]

Yeah

[tranquil cove]

like if you went multiplayer

solo game would need NPC maybe?

[tepid wadi]

You have to have that level of economy engagement to support players who want to JUST blacksmith. They'd need a way to get ore, and that's from the market.

Sorry to hijack the whole conversation with MMO theory 😝 I've been thinking a lot about it

[tranquil cove]

i think realistic geology, is something games should try to do more too, especially building/mining games

as long as the realism doesnt affect grind or anything

[obtuse scroll]

I don't want realistic, I want fantasy. Do the floating things and crazy phenomenon, I'm there for it

[tranquil cove]

even in fantasy, there is granite...

unless you plan to make your fantasy game rename all the rocks

[reef bobcat]

I want both. I want games that represent things in believable ways, by and large.

See: The Expanse. Most everything obeys the laws of physics.

Protomolecule not doing so was an actual patt of the story, not just handwaved SFX

[obtuse scroll]

Even granite can be whereever it wants in fantasy, just cause it shares a name doesn't mean it can't float.

We have a drake as a wyvern in this game, a block can do what it wants

[tranquil cove]

there is also different genres of fantasy, like high fantasy, or low fantasy, sword and sorcery, magical realism, fables, fairytales, dark fantasy, steampunk, arthurian etc.

[obtuse scroll]

In fantasy, things are whatever you make of them. That's the wonder of fantasy.

[tranquil cove]

all of these have different levels of realism in them by definition.

i dunno even fantasy operates on genres, and internal logic, sure creators have freedom, but the freeom shows up based on the logic of the world and the genre rules.

unless you are specifically describing surrealism fantasy, or absurdist fantasy.

both of which throw realism and logic out the window

but would also be disorienting.

like in a pure fantasy setting, a human would go insane.

without reference, logic, any sort of understanding of what is going on lol

[reef bobcat]

Just give me internal consistency and as little deus ex machina as possible.

[misty arch]

all im gathering from this conversation is that we need Light No Fire to come out sooner rather than later.

[reef bobcat]

Even zomboid has it's nonsense. How do you build a stove with zero screws? 😉

[obtuse scroll]

Humans with imagination don't go crazy in surrealism, they adapt. Fantasy is about pushing the imagination and finding wonder

[tranquil cove]

im sort of saying, i can want realism, and still want fantasy/appreciate fantasy. since realism is in tons of fantasy genres.

[obtuse scroll]

There's nothing wrong with that, but you also can't say those of us that want it, can't have total surreal experiences. It works both ways

[tranquil cove]

i just dont get a lot of realistic geology crafting/building/survival exploration games

vintage story seems to be the first that is quite close to realistic geology

we gets tons of non realism already

[reef bobcat]

Worldbuilding is an art and a science. Good worldbuilding always shines through, though. Game book movie or TV Show.

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, because when a lot of people step into a fantasy story, they want to bypass some stuff. There's genres for realism, but it's less seen in fantasy for sure

[tranquil cove]

because gaming favors non realism at least to a degree, since making realistic systems is more complex to design or simulate, and might increase grind (though it doesn't need to increase grind imo).

[reef bobcat]

I can love Star Trek despite it's lack of science, and love The Expanse specifically because it pays attention to and focuses on those details.

[obtuse scroll]

Also, an engineer irl doesn't always want to engineer in their fantasy game. (although I know a couple that do lol)

[reef bobcat]

I can love Shogun and One Piece.

[obtuse scroll]

Anime definitely falls under surrealism for a lot of things lol

[tepid wadi]

Them engineers love to engineer

The prevalence of "dad games" means there's definitely a passion/interest in more advanced simulation that we see in a lot of games.

The "push button -> receive item" standard crafting methodology is good enough for most games, but it feels so lackluster if you like that sort of granularity

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, I know some that want push button and go kill things, but then others, well they want the full experience and if something isn't real enough they explain what's wrong and put in bug reports, etc

[reef bobcat]

Literally can't make everyone happy, so pick your poison.

[tepid wadi]

I think there's a balance, where you can have what I've been calling "a touch of realism" where you have enough grounded, realistic portions of the experience to make it recognizable to people who know what's up, but then you put in fantasy elements to make the game portion.

And by doing that, you can keep the simulation aspects relatively simple, but in depth enough to please most of the folks who are picky

[obtuse scroll]

I want a slider, easy means click button done, medium means a little bit of realism, and hard means full engineering

I'm likely the person that selects easy every time. I don't want in depth crafting, I want to explore, gather mats, and have the crafting be done by one click. I'm the person that farms and kills, not the one that sits back and tinkers

[tepid wadi]

For a survival game that totally works, I'm not sure that'd work with a MMO though

[obtuse scroll]

It works sort of in wow, but they added extra layers and a point system that totally made me hate crafting, but others like it.

I just want mats, craft, go play. I don't want to think, do I need something in this tree of crafting or this other tree. Do I need to go to another crafter to make something I should be able to make but oops put the point in the wrong tree -_-

Early wow crafting I liked, gather and craft. Now it's like having to do 10 steps to get 1 thing done and maybe not if you don't do everything just right

[timber prism]

Whenever I think depth of mmo crafting, FF14 comes to mind

Unless you just wanna Google a macro XD

[reef bobcat]

Everquest Crafting...

https://tenor.com/view/cray-lost-it-gone-mad-going-mad-stressed-gif-5502030

[tranquil cove]

you can probably have complex crafting, but allow automation systems in a scifi game at least. this basically gets you what you want, especially if the game allows you to delegate npcs to do things. then you could go out to adventure. but the game would need to have a good exploration aspect to it... some games are all crafting and the explore is severely underdeveloped unfortunately.

[timber prism]

I think this is what Zerax is trying to achieve in his game. You dont have to be self sufficient and do everything

[obtuse scroll]

Ffxiv was good to a point, but the leveling was a bit hard cause things still attacked you while you were gathering mats (and not in a real fighting spec) and sometimes it was a bit much.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, the expectation is that you wouldn't, but if you really want to, you CAN

[tranquil cove]

in an MMO you dont need to do much except attract the different players, the guy who likes to pvp, goes out and pvps, the guy who likes to craft, builds that pvp guy armor. and thats what guilds are for really.

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, I don't like that in mmos, because people can be jerks and they'll jack up prices whenever they can to be that person. Mmos are a hard balance cause the player base can go from nice to toxic in 5 seconds

[timber prism]

Yeah. That really doesn't have anything to do with crafting system itself but I do understand how that could be frustrating for some especially the timed mats

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, but then I'd have to play a sci-fi game 😜

[timber prism]

And yeah. That is the interesting social dynamic of mmos haha. People are still people.

[tepid wadi]

It also stands to reason that if crafting was actually fun, you might enjoy it more 😝

[obtuse scroll]

I'm kidding, occasionally I do play sci-fi, just it's not my main focus in gaming and it has to really appeal to me

[timber prism]

From what I read it def sounds like tigerlilium doesnt want a "fun" crafting system since its just a means to an ends of what they actually enjoy doing which is exploring/adventuring

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, and that's definitely okay

[timber prism]

I am that way with timers on survival games

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, essentially.

[timber prism]

I hate having to wait 5-20 minutes for a block to come out of furnace XD

[tranquil cove]

part of why vintage story is so beautiful looking though is because they did realistic world gen, and geology... so i mean the realism in that case makes crafting 100% more realistic, but also makes exploration more rewarding visually.

so i dunno, there are benefits to realism even for exploration

[obtuse scroll]

Crafting timers and planting timers on Enshrouded are all turned to lowest time as possible lol.

I use a mod on Valheim to make waiting for plants not really a thing either lol

[tranquil cove]

i feel like you might want 100 more mods on valheim 😄

wolf howls annoying, 20 minute food timers? no thanks

[timber prism]

The worst is vanilla Ark waiting for things to hatch or whatever

Taming

It was awful

[tranquil cove]

valheim, a storm every 3 hours and you cant see anything... makes exploration unfun for me.

[tepid wadi]

Oh man, I played on an official hardcore server when they came out and we raised bears. The imprinting process is the most anti-player mechanic I've ever seen in a video game.

[obtuse scroll]

Lol if it's cute animals, I will do whatever it takes. I'm a hypocrite on those times. Although, if there's a way to make it faster, I will.

[timber prism]

Okay. Cute animals are fine xd

[tranquil cove]

i got cute animals

in my barn

[timber prism]

48 hour timer me on hatching a kawaii pet. Im all for it XD

[obtuse scroll]

I use 5 mods. One to plant anything I want, one to adjust how much I plant at a time (saves my hands), a clock to know the time of day, a building mod that allows me to change rotate on all axis, an inventory mod so that my gear isn't just in my bags but equipped in a character inventory.

[tranquil cove]

waiting for a timer sucks, i agree, but in these realism crafting games, the process is part of doing the work, there is no waiitng timer - so its immersive.

[obtuse scroll]

I got a meercat yesterday! I squeed

[limpid quarry]

remember when you were playing Terraria... you got all the ore, and then you went to the furnace and had to wait to make ingots?

I sure don't cause Terraria doesn't make you wait it just lets you craft them

[tranquil cove]

okay dont hate me but

for some reason in hytale i found killing frogs cute

their little death poses

it looks like its sleeping

they need to make frogs sleep that way, so i dont have to kill them

[obtuse scroll]

Oh, terraria lost me in minutes, even my husband that loved Minecraft (I do too) didn't like Terraria.

[obtuse scroll]

I hate having to kill foxes. One got into my farm and I felt like a monster

[limpid quarry]

Terraria is the kind of game that, does a ton of things right except being 2D :P

[tranquil cove]

same i try not to kill foxes

[limpid quarry]

quite often though I play a game and say "man if this game just did this one thing Terraria does, it'd be better"
like cosmetic armor slots for example

[tranquil cove]

terraria just had a huge update that made it even better

they even changed the UI, added more qol, more content etc. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2026/01/terrarias-huge-bigger-and-boulder-update-is-now-live-here-are-the-patch-notes?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

[finite saffron]

look at the betrayal in his eyes

[limpid quarry]

hm.. do I want foxes added to enshrouded...

[obtuse scroll]

You're mean. I had to, he spawned in my farm and killed one of my baby piggies 😭 😿

[limpid quarry]

nah, foxes are too cute and pure for mushroom poison fog world

[obtuse scroll]

My piglets were in harms way, I had to do it 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

I know it's a thing in Hytale about them not growing up and they're gonna fix it later, but I do like having the babies running around. I wish it was like Enshrouded and you had to actively press a button to grow them.... Although I wish it was a long E to grow them in Enshrouded so they weren't accidentally grown

I want to pet the baby animals

[limpid quarry]

long E is picking them up, so definitely nothing they can do about that

you can pet them by picking them up, and placing them down, which resets their growing timer

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, which I do, but maybe the grow button could be like Q or something that you wouldn't accidentally hit

Hytale gives them babies those big eyes.... I love the animals lol

[limpid quarry]

https://tenor.com/ueyRZav9jT4.gif

hold the babies

[limpid quarry]

https://youtu.be/p0wtlI8qF1E

[reef bobcat]

Dogmeat in Fallout may be invincible, but I hate hearing a dog yelp. So he stays in sanctuary 😄

[obtuse scroll]

I don't have enough room in the arms for all the babies

[obtuse scroll]

I hate the yelp noise. It's why I hate killing wolfies

Vanilla and bc wow was just right for taming. You hit the tame button, the animal attacked you but you didn't hit it back, then it tamed. You had to proceed to love the pet and feed it its favorite food until it loved you back. If it got hurt, you'd comfort it to make it happy with you, etc

I would play a whole game of taming and raising animals. Not Pokémon where you fight them until they are too done in and you force them into a little ball, but actual time and energy just taming and feeding them. Not in a stardew valley look either, but a bigger, see the animals kind of game.

[reef bobcat]

So, PalWorld?

ducks

What? What did I say??! 😉

[obtuse scroll]

I want to tame animals, dragons, unicorn, pegasii, etc

[obtuse scroll]

You better hide. I may murder you, just like you murder, enslave, and eat your companions in palworld -_____-

[reef bobcat]

I don't play PalWorld, or Pokemon.

Dog Fight Simulators are not OK 😉

[obtuse scroll]

No, they are not

If the companion animal fights with you, good, but you fighting/eating/enslaving them, no

I like that the horses in Hytale kick you when you finish riding them and they aren't tamed lol

Although taming is broken so they all kick you lol

So then I go and pet my kitties in Enshrouded

[tepid wadi]

RIP Dark & Light

[obtuse scroll]

Well, they had Ark and who didn't want dinosaurs and craziness. I also had not heard of it and when I did, it was already full of bad reviews

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, the concept was good, but Wildcard (or whoever ended up with it) didn't do it justice

Like "Open world fantasy survival game with a focus on ecosystems and fantastical creatures" is a great premise

[obtuse scroll]

Too bad they didn't follow through with a good game

[tepid wadi]

indeed

[obtuse scroll]

Add a taming ecosystem into your mmo 😜

[limpid quarry]

Ultima Online

[reef bobcat]

Didn't they then announce Dark & Light 2, for it to fail even harder?

[tepid wadi]

Oh you mean like a taming/breeding system where your mounts have stats and there's a mechanic to have genetic lines and animal husbandry makes an actual difference?

[reef bobcat]

Ape on a rocket bike, spaceships, etc.?

[tepid wadi]

I may have spent some time thinking about it

[obtuse scroll]

Not just mounts all sorts of animals and fantasy creatures. I don't care about family lines, I want cute animals and a good taming system

[tepid wadi]

Lol, probably not for my game, but who knows. A mount system would be waaaaay in the future

[obtuse scroll]

Don't want that look of a game. I want pretty graphics. I am allowed to be that girl gamer occasionally. I'll play shooters and zombie games, but sometimes I want the cute animals that I can pet

[tepid wadi]

A graphical style that I'd love to see from a MMO is something like Cairn

[limpid quarry]

I know Ultima Online is super out-dated, but it had a ton of features and things making it insanely ahead of its time... I hope someone makes ultima online but for a modern age, cause I didn't really get to play Ultima Online much growing up

my brother pointed out "Ultima Online has the best spells" cause you can make portals/gates to locations and take an entire party through. and it has lots of fun utility

there was a spell to just.. make food, it wasn't great food, but I ate my bundle of magical grapes and had no idea what it did cause I was like 8

[obtuse scroll]

I'd be good with Enshrouded world. People would want other character models, cause they hate on these ones, but more hairstyles and colors would be nice. I want sea green hair and not the faded one we have

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, Enshrouded is obviously gorgeous, the work Keen is doing is super impressive

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, I mean, lots of people loved it, but I am a lot about graphics. Some games can get away with bad graphics if they appeal (Minecraft, Hytale - although the animals are adorable-, 7 days to die, etc), but I really want the graphics to be good

[limpid quarry]

Enshrouded is goat, that's why I decided to make things in it that were from other games. just to see what they'd look like #1411530192286912513 message

[tepid wadi]

I agree with you. They don't have to be AMAZING, but I'm tired of seeing MMOs with playstation 1-2 level graphics and animations

[obtuse scroll]

Although, wow does good with their cartoon graphics

[tepid wadi]

I prefer mildly stylized, kinda like GW2 is

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, I love the Zelda games. Finally fantasy 6, chrono trigger.... Some games get away with the old style but sometimes we want the new and flashy, catch your eye and make you say wow graphics

[tepid wadi]

I really like Cairn's sort of cell-shaded graphical style:

That style with a fantasy theme would be excellent

[obtuse scroll]

I have found, I absolutely cannot get into games with that style graphics. It's too 2d feeling for me, even when it's drawn 3d

[tepid wadi]

oh? Interesting

[obtuse scroll]

I mean borderlands kind of has that feel for graphics but they manage to really surpass it with the game. Although, 4 was a bit of a letdown

Those graphics can work if you have the right pull, but in a world with things like Elden Ring, Enshrouded, FFXIV, Final Fantasy 7 remake, etc... You need a catch to make me play the 'lesser' graphics

I mean Hytale is 'lesser' (need a different word for it) graphics but it had appeal to make me play it

[lofty snow]

Isn’t that a super old and now inactive mmo? With barely any active players

[limpid quarry]

yes, not sure about how active or inactive it is though. but it's like... one of the very first MMOs

[finite saffron]

Ultima still has a decent cult following, but yes it's extremely old

[limpid quarry]

part of me is tempted to try and play it again, since my parents likely have my account info saved somewhere

[finite saffron]

I don't think it aged super well tbh, but if you used to play it, it might be nostalgic.

I used to play the 1997 MMO tibia, and it's still being updated to this day. I went back and played it a year or so ago and it was honestly a pretty fun time lol

[tepid wadi]

My buddies are all nostalgic for everquest, so we play all the MMO projects that are remaking it over and over

And every time I'm left thinking "That's it?"

[finite saffron]

The main thing I like about Tibia that modern MMOs don't replicate is having a persistent, global world.

I.E there's no shards or instanced content. You go somewhere, and hunt the enemies that are there, and if any players are hunting those enemies, they'll be there too.

It feels far more immersive and connected than any modern MMO I've played, despite being so much older. I actually feel like I'm a part of the world and the community of players I share that world with

But in terms of actual gameplay and stuff, yeah it's ass

lol

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, that world style is excellent, but also falls apart if you have too many players, or large events in certain areas, or whatnot

I feel like doing that with "Channels" that are dynamically created as too many players crowd an area is a good way to compromise and support larger events

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, wow had that problem for a while, they ended up merging a lot of servers because of it and now they're trying not to have as many instances zones with quests that change it.

[finite saffron]

That's good, I honestly hated how common that is in modern MMOs cause like... what's the point of it being an MMO then? For aesthetics? It has zero impact on the gameplay if you just go to an instanced dungeon every time you fight something

By that logic warframe is basically an MMO too lol

[obtuse scroll]

Stupid instances quests in twilight highlands right now with a prepatch event in wow is causing issues because half the people can't see the quests or each other. They keep putting out hotfixes

They've learned the instancing causes more issues in am mmo than is worth it.... Then again, I say that and they'll probably forget in time and start it again

[finite saffron]

To me every MMO I've played just feels so non-immersive except for Albion and Tibia (because those are two games with a shared world where the content revolves around player interaction)

So many of them are just quest trains where you feel COMPLETELY disconnected from the world and otehr players, this entire world ending plot is happening just to you and nobody else. It feels so cheesy to me

And also defeats the purpose of what an MMO is, at least in my opinion. It's a singleplayer story where other players are running around playing their own singleplayer stories.

And I feel like I'm not just a boomer for saying this, because all of these MMOs keep flopping and dying except for a couple of them lol

[obtuse scroll]

Lol yeah, the mmos are dying hard. I feel like you can't look forward to any because you can't trust that they'll actually happen or be any good. The last few have been flops or just blatant pay to win crap

[frank sonnet]

ah classic cartoons

[finite saffron]

It's a death spiral because of the way investments work. These are MASSIVE budget projects, so investors don't want to give money to them unless they're a "safe bet", but the genre is so stagnant that the only "safe bet" is copying WoW, which ironically leads to nobody wanting to play the game (because they already have WoW), and then the game dies.

And the more MMOs die, the more cautious investors get, which seems to have only made the problem worse.

[obtuse scroll]

I'm cautiously optimistic for the next expac of wow coming out at the end of this month, already bought it (I've put 20 years in, I'm not going to stop now, so repurchase isn't a surprise). It's just they're losing focus it seems at time and just recently seem to have caught an actual thread

[obtuse scroll]

Lol yeah, I already have wow, I want something new and fresh. Too bad all the stuff coming out has been absolute disappointment. I'm bitter over Pax Dei and the potential it had, then boom crappy devs and a pay sub that made no sense for how little they give.

[tepid wadi]

This is the entire reason why I've been working on my rather unique strategy. The goals of publicly traded investment groups and game companies are fundamentally different and often opposed.

There area lot of ways where you can design the gameplay to be interactive and encourage players to have interactions but so many MMO projects are so stuck in the rut of the past that we rarely see innovation in that area

[finite saffron]

Yeah, I also strongly believe the philosophy of "do what is already proven to work" is fundamentally broken in an industry built on creativity.

Honestly the same problem exists in movies, where mega budget movies feel unoriginal and uninteresting because they're basically just copying another movie that people already liked, and the best movies end up coming from smaller, riskier publishers like a24 that are willing to fund new ideas.

Same thing happens in games, with broken logic like "MMOs make money, what's a successful MMO? Let's copy what they did", and congrats, you have now set yourself up for failure by ensuring that you have to compete with one of the biggest games in the world. If you had just done something new, you could create your own niche/market where you could actually make money.

[tepid wadi]

Well it's also the long term goals. "Line go up" isn't necessarily compatible with "make good game" because you have to keep getting a bigger audience or milking them for more money

[obtuse scroll]

Anytime a movie is announced, I basically think to myself, 'have I heard of that book?' It's a surprise when it's not based on a book or comic

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, the "copying" strategy only works if the game you're copying is dead, lol

And if it's dead, be sure you ask yourself why

[finite saffron]

Or if you can do it better than they could, but you have to ask why a game that wasn't already doing a good job would be so massively successful lol

[obtuse scroll]

I've bought so few games in the last couple years. I'm waiting for something new and appealing and I keep seeing repeats and variations

[finite saffron]

I've gotten back into deadlock lately and honestly it's such a breath of fresh air, it's so unique in every way. Map design, character design, lore, visual style. It reminded me that I still liked games, I just hate most of the modern games that have come out lmao

[tepid wadi]

The drive to create a MMO that is just... fun to play, and the world is just... an enjoyable place to exist

[obtuse scroll]

Enshrouded is coughing in the background lol

[finite saffron]

I like Enshrouded too, been doing a playthrough of it. It's just hard for me to play the game I work on all day in my spare time, I usually want to think of something else when I clock out lol

But yeah, smaller indie studios are where the good games have been for a while. My friends convinced me to buy Battlefield 6 and I regret it so bad. Used to be my favorite series, but it's just not what it used to be

[obtuse scroll]

Lol yeah, I can see that. 24/7 Enshrouded would tax me and I love the game.

[tepid wadi]

Arc Raiders is also very fun

I played BF6 for like a week until that came out

[obtuse scroll]

Yeah, Expedition 33 kicked butt at game awards because they didn't follow AAA studio leads and actually put out something new and creative.

[finite saffron]

Arc Raiders is a fantastic game, but I've played too many extraction shooters I think. It doesn't get my blood pumping like I want it to

It's so good if you've never played an extraction shooter before, though

[tepid wadi]

I love that their bot AI is being built by someone doing their PHD in machine learning

So the arc are continuing to evolve tactics

[finite saffron]

I saw this the other day, it really made it clear to me how much battlefield 6 is nothing like the quality of the older titles I used to love. I got this achievement in only 3 hours of play, and only 40% of players have it 😭

[tepid wadi]

lol

[obtuse scroll]

The problem with extraction shooters is that they generally have no storyline and I really don't dig in if there's no story to go off of.

[tepid wadi]

The lore of arc raiders is pretty cool, but yeah zero story to it

[finite saffron]

Their AI is some of the coolest thing I have seen in game dev in a very long time. It's like rainworld AI but 100x cooler

[tepid wadi]

I love their BTS videos they made about the design and the studio

[timber prism]

Dont like standing in a line for 5 hours trying to talk to the same npc? Xd

[tepid wadi]

I'm more worried about the servers just getting annihilated 😝

[timber prism]

True haha

[tepid wadi]

There are obviously problems with things like players gaming the channel system to hunt for things like rare mobs/events or whatever, but if shards are big enough and will despawn dynamically you might be able to limit it.

But that's something for smart network engineers to solve, not me, lol

[tranquil cove]

took awhile to learn the house building basics in hytale

for example the old house

it still needs some work though especially internally with figuring out a chest system i like, but im liking the progress

[obtuse scroll]

Nothing wrong with either

My downstairs is just two rows of crafting and a row of boxes after that. Trying to make sure all the boxes can be reached by all the crafting tables

I haven't done anything fancy. I just bought it in the last week. Also, I may have been spending my time catching animals O.O

I have to go find another piglet... Bad fox

[frank sonnet]

fox wants bacon

[obtuse scroll]

Something I don't like about Hytale though, is they announced the patch notes last week and still haven't released the actual patch. It has things in it like making the chicken coop level 3 instead of 5,that I needs

[obtuse scroll]

He got very little. It was a piglet not an adult 😿

I don't like having patch notes and no information as to when we're getting the actual patch

[frank sonnet]

thats a yikes

[obtuse scroll]

It's like a teaser but instead of teasing you, it tells you everything except when you can have it -_-

They gave me the ending of the story but are refusing to give me the book itself

[timber prism]

I remember doing exactly this for many world bosses in many games xd

[vague galleon]

anyone here try out Tinkerlands? Ive been enjoying it during my break from Enshrouded. it's only on 0.30 in EA though.

[tranquil cove]

looks like a poor mans core keeper

except above ground

though building a ship base is nice

all these games still fail to do 1 simple thing, which pisses me off and makes the game/devs annoying

i want modular floor chests, so i can place my chests in the ground, walk on top of them, cover them with tiles, and the workbench can access them from 8 blocks away. now idont need a room filled with 100 chests and there is no more storage issues. and rooms can actually be themed to be things, rather than just rooms filled with chests.

devs are so aggravating that nobody sees the benefit in this and they have crappy base design and chests all over - in these isometric top side view games.

which as a base builder totally makes me not play the game, usually 1 issue doesn't do this, but in this case it does.

there's no point playing a game, where basing is so inefficient. if i want a chest room i can make a chest room. if i want a room with pedestals or armor stands, i can do that. but i should also have the option to put chests in the floor. pretty much a necessity in a game that is not 3D and has space limitations, compared to games that can use a full 3d plane.

plus plopping chest all over forces bases to be bigger. i am a collect everything, but have a small base kinda guy.

[reef bobcat]

Basements are a thing, and all 45 levels of my depot-enhanced hoard fits in 12 enormous magic chests... 😉

[tepid wadi]

Minecraft autosorter systems say hello 😝

[tranquil cove]

yeah i mean games like core keeper, let you remove ground. so that a pit appears that you can't walk on. you can then put any ground there you want.

i am saying core keeper, great mechanic, take it further. allow me to place a chest, as ground.

now i can have a chest as ground, walk on it. now core keeper also has floor tiles. flooring that slots over ground, and you walk on it.

now i can put a floor tile on my chest. and walk on it, to hide it

now make chests connect, in at least 12 chests total. if you want to cap it. now i have a max storage of like 32 x 12.

now let me access that storage from a singular point. and allow workbenches to pull from the singular point/chests at a range.

now i can have a room without having 12 chests taking up space. and theme that room to be a blacksmithy, instead of a chest room.

SO flipping common, sense, so amazing, so efficient, so beautiful.

and no dev wants to do it?!

INSANE.

its a way to turn a 2d storage game, into a 3D one.

basically.

[reef bobcat]

Sure. Rimworld has this issue as well.

https://youtu.be/4paOxeGLhUo?si=E2Yb0neYLX2HprtB

I love Door Monster 😄

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/i2uB48UG2LY?si=b-sesGQMbmxe7ZeZ

https://youtu.be/QwxFR1g7Uy4?si=gKqR3WgYBzYlhBmF

[timber prism]

Why even have chests at all and design a game with infinite storage space?

At that point just have a cosmetic nonfunctional chest for designs

[tranquil cove]

i still like constraint systems, but not grindy management. it's why i prefer valheim building rules over a game that lets you do anything in building without any structural weight considerations. with the chests, the issue isn't necessarily inventory management, it's space related and aesthetic, and efficiency related.

Yes, you can do a bag of holding like Baldur's gate and be done with inventory... but that's also a niche solution, meaning not every player would want that. And it's a quick solve solution... what i suggested requires more development and is something that doesn't change storage too much, it just moves storage to a 3D plane really.

[timber prism]

Yeah. It would definitely require more development for sure but also for niche audience haha

Interesting idea though

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/RoXKhwb18MY?si=YMGFe-gmAclVgmuW

[vague galleon]

reopening?

[reef bobcat]

Tycho?

There's a name I haven't heard in a long time... a long time...

[timber prism]

Is this just dlc for the OG game?

[misty arch]

remake by original team of the original game

[misty arch]

it was removed from steam a few years back

[misty arch]

for 35th anniversary

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/KY5X0G_05h0?si=yA6Og-ifRkkUfV3w

[timber prism]

https://blog.playstation.com/2026/02/05/announcing-horizon-hunters-gathering-guerrillas-new-co-op-action-game/

[tepid wadi]

Looks pretty good, though my "old man yells at cloud" gripe is that I'm tired of games that are made up of a "diverse cast of characters with their own unique abilities". I just want to play MY character and build a build that caters to the way that I like to play.

Feels like every game has taken the "hero shooter" concept to heart.

[timber prism]

I think the goal was to separate themselves from "just another monster hunter"

This way they can have actual stories for each released character as the game progesses

Speaking of MH, I heard Wilds had an update an actually fixed their optimization issues

You can spin around camera in town without have crazy frame dips now

[tepid wadi]

Well that's good

I think part of the reason why I fell off of Wilds so hard was that it felt like the story rushed me through everything. It didn't have the sections like in older MH games where it was like "Okay, now hunt some monsters for a while"

Also speaking of "just another monster hunter" games, I'm sad we won't be getting another Wild Hearts. For a first entry into the genre, it was really good

[tranquil cove]

new fallout game?

[misty arch]

full mod conversion to New Vegas with storyline from the canceled 3rd game that was in the works back in the early 2000s called Fallout Van Buren.

[tranquil cove]

mod converstion to new vegas? we already have a new vegas game

oh you mean a mod for new vegas, but with the cancelled games story?

[misty arch]

yes

[neon aurora]

I have played mostly No Man’s Sky the last year. I love base building in it. I picked up enshrouded today, very excited to begin my journey 🙂

[violet yoke]

Take a look at Whispers of the Swallows. Newly released EA game. 1 man dev team. On the ball with discord communication with the gamers. And the game is really good for a just released EA game - better than more polished released payoff games in my opinion. I’m deep into it and loving it.

[neon aurora]

It does look pretty fun!

[violet yoke]

I’m on day 3 and really enjoying getting to know this game. It’s really well done for its current state.

[tepid wadi]

Does look good! I love following solo projects, gives me hope for my own eventual plans 😝

[violet yoke]

Thomas - the sole game dev - is in France. So make sure you account for that in their discord with any bug reporting or suggestions. He’s on top of it when he wakes up and responds to everyone.

[twin solar]

is that on steam?

i cant find it

[misty arch]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2496090/Whisper_of_the_Swallows/

Steam

Whisper of the Swallows

The gods have abandoned this world, leaving it to the mercy of relentless storms and the unearthly shrieks of the Black Wailers that hunt in the dark. In this vast, procedurally generated wilderness, every night is a test of survival, and every dawn is a victory earned.
Playable solo or with up to 6 players in online co-op, Whisper of the Swall…

Price

$19.99

https://youtu.be/pVCn8Jpvewo?si=cs_glno11EuRvswq

https://youtu.be/2paOXQxE3dc?si=1AZpxY--5RMbpE2m

[timber prism]

Yeah, I really enjoyed Wild Hearts both solo and in a group. The umbrella is my favorite monster hunting weapon and really enjoyed summoning traps aspect

its unfortunate that the optimization was really bad

and its weird to see MHWilds get a pass for it when it was much worse when it came out lmao

[timber prism]

https://youtu.be/pG_lpBoGK1c?si=sN4e39dls71aHHmt

SOOOOOON

[lilac oxide]

Just did a solo run of hunt, found shadow (AI enemies dont detect or target you), last enemy team was going to the circus with the main bounty

So i went into the circus and used the circus bear mini boss to help me wipe the enemy team while screeching in voip "Yeah Sic em barry!"

🐒 🐒 🐒

[tepid wadi]

🤞

If they just shadow drop LNF this year, I'll be jazzed

[misty arch]

Would be nice but we havent had any new info since the trailer. So willing to bet we are at least a year out still.

[real peak]

arc raiders any1?

[pine nexus]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3370870/Berry_Bury_Berry/

Steam

Berry Bury Berry

Berry Bury Berry is a surreal first-person incremental game about growing berries and putting them in a hole. Lots and lots of berries.

BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY BERRY
Make and Upgrade Berry Buddies to grow higher and higher tiers of berries!…

Price

$7.99

Recommendations

1312

[digital sorrel]

i tried the demo right now. couldnt find enough sticks to survive the night, respawned without any sticks and entered a death loop

i love solo devs too, but 20€? it didnt give me a strong impression

[frank sonnet]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3574750/The_Dark_West/ huh a wild west diablo like

Steam

The Dark West

The Dark West is an Action RPG set in a cursed frontier where power always comes at a cost.

An occult west lies under a sun that refuses to rise. The land bears the wretched marks of what people wanted and what they were willing to do for it. Choose characters shaped by difficult pasts. Faith still has a say. Damnation does too. Violence set…

Release Date

To be announced

[vague galleon]

neat.

[misty arch]

could be fun. diablo meets the old west.

[vague galleon]

yeehaw

[timber prism]

definitely wanna see the crafting system,skill trees, and endgame loop but the premise seems alright...

[misty arch]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/survival-crafting/modders-have-already-put-mechs-music-boxes-and-an-mmo-style-dungeon-in-hytale-impressing-its-lead-dev-absolutely-crazy-talented/

[tranquil cove]

kind of sad that devs rely on modders lately to code their game for them

imo

might as well fire all the devs

and save money, and have modders do it for free

[reef bobcat]

Eh... this isn't always the case with modded games.

On the one side: Big Game Dev Houses are averse to risk, for both good, and stupid / greedy reasons. They only have so many developers, only give them so much time and resources to do the work, etc.

The other, freelance modders, are legion. And unhindered by corporate policy or stupidity / rigidity.

Some games do "rely" on modders. And some do in fact hire on some from that pool - Rimworld, Project Zomboid to name two off the top of my head.

So it's a bit all over, with certain parties being way more guilty of abuse than others.

[tranquil cove]

i dont mind hiring modders or modders

i just want game devs to recognize good ideas, and implement them vanilla at some point. but at least a few refuse to do this, and solely let ideas be implemented by modders or stay modded.

its the mentality of "let the modders do it" that bothers me ( if it actually exists ) then i don't think thats good game dev. like why would you leave a feature to modders? unless it was truly niche.

[reef bobcat]

Because your team is struggling with whatever issues already on the roadmap / plan / list / whatever.

"Let the modders do it" is bad.

But the modders are going to, need them to or not.

[tranquil cove]

yeah and some of that struggle is self created from not listening to the community, developing bad implementation, and then having to leave things to modders because you have no time or money anymore...

[reef bobcat]

Sometimes.

Sometimes, it is becasue computer programming is hard 😄

[tranquil cove]

fair

[reef bobcat]

I try to judge each team / dev / project / company on its own merits or flaws.

Some very much work with the modding community and each relies on and helps the other, they hire on from that community, they incorporate ideas and give credit (usually...), etc. The "ideal" situation.

Others it is just a constant SNAFU and we tend to love the modders more than the devs 😉

[tranquil cove]

on a differnt note, worst part of hytale is trying to find the last 7 monsters to reach 200 memories

[tepid wadi]

Minecraft has this problem, they're so focused on letting the game be good for their creator community that they don't want to implement things that are in good mods, but like... there are some basic things that would make the game much better that just exist in mods.

I'm hoping the fact that hytale exists and has some of those things (like actual real furniture you can sit on) really pushes minecraft to officially add them

[tranquil cove]

thats what im worried about for some games i follow

they think if they implement something, then modders will have nothing to do or some crap. no modders will do something else... there is a ton for modders to do. build your game.

and yeah there is obviously risk aversion going on, sunk cost fallacy, not wanting to admit something needs to be scrapped and lose the money time to redo it again, or worried how something untested might be recieved so never daring to do it.

though i think the risks could largely be minimized greatly in a lot of ways.

[tranquil cove]

reminds me of the hope for steam OS too

since it will be kind of minimalist, if lots of people prefer it over windows, it might force windows to make a more privacy centered and less resource consuming OS.

[ornate fractal]

[smug in Nobara Linux]

[tranquil cove]

is that one good?

[tepid wadi]

If you ask someone who uses linux if their version is good, they'll answer yes 😝

[tranquil cove]

i do want to look for a window alternative at some point, but i also want my programs to work on it without much effort.

[tepid wadi]

I'm the same way, I've always been too lazy for linux

[tranquil cove]

like i dont really want to setup a windows emulator

or wine etc.

i just want stuff solely designed for windows, to automatically work on linux

[ornate fractal]

I've used it exclusively on my HTPC, laptop and gaming desktop since October and had zero issues. Every game I play just works right out of the box with Proton-GE. There are a couple weirdnesses of integrating non-US font sets which hasn't been of concern for me, and of course there are some games that I don't play which require Secure Boot in Windows, but my personal experience has been very nice. Every time I think I've bumped up against something I "can't do," turns out I can it just might take some reading and elbow grease, and the end result is that I'm a more competent user.

Fun fact, Proton can run a lot of non-game Windows programs. Nobara specifically has built-in stuff for making gaming and streaming easy out of the box.

[tepid wadi]

If I have to use a windows emulator, I may as well... just run windows?

[tranquil cove]

yeah i remember i had a hard time installing proton i think, 10 years ago

and it was hard to get steam working

maybe things are easier now

[ornate fractal]

It's startlingly easy now, yeah.

[tepid wadi]

When I worked at Amazon, I had a windows machine where I VPN'd into a linux machine that... ran a windows emulator

[ornate fractal]

Near-parity.

[tepid wadi]

It was the most nonsentical workflow I've ever encountered

[tranquil cove]

you say there are secure boot games though

do you know a quick example of one?

[ornate fractal]

Fortnite comes to mind; basically BIOS-level anti-cheat. https://areweanticheatyet.com/ <-- list of games that demand some level of anti-cheat and their compatibility

[tranquil cove]

agreed, i hate myself a bit for my laziness

since i also have principles, and the two collide 🙁

so i sacrifice some principles sometimes

like i really want to switch to a local LLM

so i stop supporting any tech company directly, and its better for the environment, but i've been so lazy to research how to do it

i usually procrastinate everything for 3 months, and then finally do it though

[tranquil cove]

what if a game is unlisted?

what about early access games? does this mostly affect MP games? because im not big on MOBA or MP games in general, except maybe Hytale or coop games etc.

[ornate fractal]

Then it's probably not been tested; this isn't a list of all games that do or don't run on Proton, it's a list of popular games with anti-cheat elemetns and whether or not people have got them to work.

For general Proton layer compatibility you should check protondb.com but it is sometimes not as clear; what one genius can do to get a game running is different from what the average user might wanna put in. XD

[tranquil cove]

so you're basically telling me to partition my drive, and start that way with nobara 😛

[ornate fractal]

I personally have played Mycopunk, Enshrouded, Cyberpunk 2077, Fallout 4 and Cozy Keep since my install and they all worked out of the box at as-good-as or slightly-better-than-Windows performance. I have AMD CPU and GPU which does matter. Nvidia is more slow to work on compatibility and more stingy with their code.

[ornate fractal]

Nobara guide will suggest you use a separate drive; NTFS + most Linux distros = corruption over time.

[tranquil cove]

i have a separate drive, i have to learn how to get the PC to boot from it i guess

rather than always switching the bios setting or whatever

you know what i mean? i want to be presented with windows or nobara

and click a button, and then it goes to that OS.

[ornate fractal]

Is doable in nearly any BIOS, but how varies by vendor.

[tranquil cove]

thanks and you think nobara is the most user friendly, supported? best features of linux distros?

it always feels like there is 100 distros and in 10 years they disappear

and a new one ends up being better

thats my outside impression of linux 😅

oh yeah i used linux mint before

[ornate fractal]

Nobara is inspired by but not "built on" Fedora. My first time using a Fedora-derived system but it's been a breeze. It's required the least setup of any distro I've used, that's for sure.
For gaming it's usually CachyOS, Bazzite or Nobara I would recommend depending on your comfort level with using terminal and researching your build. I chose Nobara cause it already comes with Steam, Proton, Discord and OBS built-in. I am old and tired, and while I can build my distro how I want, the less time I spend building is the more time I spend loving my cats and hubby and gaming lol.

They have a fairly friendly and helpful Discord channel that I'm sure would be willing to walk you through getting set up and helping you understand the relative strengths and weaknesses. It's just maintained by a few people, and the creator made it for him and his dad, which means it's got gamer conveniences for him and straightforward simplicity for dad.

But if you use it for six months you'll probably know all you need to transition to different Linux distros over time, should support come to an end, even making your own custom Fedora install if you wish. That's my plan, should this occur.

Just read, be patient and plan what you're going to do; don't wanna be one of those people who doesn't pick the right version and ends up with a wobbly tower OS instead of a smooth start.

[tranquil cove]

i can probably try this setup
NVMe #1
└─ Windows
NVMe #2
├─ Linux system
└─ Games (NTFS, shared)

without having to buy a new drive

[ornate fractal]

Maaaaaybe. Ask them, they can give you better guidance than me, who has a cold and hasn't done any tinkering with my OS in half a year.

https://nobaraproject.org/

https://wiki.nobaraproject.org/

[tranquil cove]

sweet thank you

[misty arch]

new FP co-op from developers of Valheim
https://youtu.be/FPMxYZAlpPU?si=jUTztYg1qWP8pYvs

discord has announced their age verification is coming in march.
https://www.pcgamer.com/software/platforms/discord-age-verification-teen-account-restrictions/

[ornate fractal]

We're having the discussion presently. #off-topic message

Thank you for wanting to spread awareness.

[daring wave]

they'll get nothing from me.

[frank sonnet]

don't they already do that?

[misty arch]

use your face and have an ID on file for you? not in the US until march. I do believe they tested it in Europe though already.

[ornate fractal]

And shortly after suffered a data breach exposing 2,000,000 accounts and at least 20,000 govt IDs.

[misty arch]

that is true

[frank sonnet]

oh.... thats bad

i thought it was age varication

[ornate fractal]

It's data hoarding for the digital Panopticon under the guise of protecting children.

[frank sonnet]

nah f that

[tepid wadi]

Maybe they should finish Valheim first 😝

[frank sonnet]

i thought that too

and tbh it just looks like a low poly dark and darker

[timber prism]

without the pvp

[tranquil cove]

it's not that bad

tired of people saying it's in the guise of protecting children, like... no there should be regulation on the internet. regulation is good. i do not want totally unregulated internet simply because, "people can always bypass regulations." - so there's no point.

why doesn't zerax stop banning people too

hey zerax

stop banning people

because people can always bypass that

[vague galleon]

i miss the early days of the internet.

[tranquil cove]

https://www.theverge.com/tech/875309/discord-age-verification-global-roll-out

[tranquil cove]

the early days didnt have bots and extremists trying to overthrow governments and train your children.

[vague galleon]

the early days also had a ton of java game websites.

[tranquil cove]

hell yeah

i used to play a game called Nilo Risk at Borak

was RISK online with a chat room

[vague galleon]

Games Domain....

bonus.com had a snowboarding game i loved.

[timber prism]

you all sound old

[vague galleon]

[tranquil cove]

i used to play a game called castrol racing too

hover race, which is still around

[timber prism]

did you play flash games too?

[tranquil cove]

though that was a downloadable game

[vague galleon]

i think i might know what you're talking about with castrol racing.

also burning metal 3d!

[timber prism]

i remember newgrounds

[vague galleon]

newgrounds still exists!!!

[tranquil cove]

newgrounds was later

[vague galleon]

neopets is also still around!

[timber prism]

yeah, i stopped playing browser games long ago haha

[tranquil cove]

the games im mentioning are 1996-2000

oh yeah i remember neopets

[timber prism]

i did now it still existed but i dont know anyone who actually plays games there these days

know*

[vague galleon]

ya i dunno but people still post to it.

[timber prism]

i think i played a lot of tetris online

[tranquil cove]

my friend plays flash games

they dont do gaming

[vague galleon]

i played tetris online a few times.

[tranquil cove]

no steam, nothing, they are pretty adultish

so my friend will play 1 or 2 flash games that they like sometimes, and solitaire lol and new york times puzzle games 🤣

you can play games on new york times

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/02/06/upshot/flashback.html

for some reason flashback is not featured in their game section. https://www.nytimes.com/crosswords

even though it's basically like the card game chronology

[ornate fractal]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/fallout/ghost-in-the-shell-director-mamoru-oshii-has-played-10-000-hours-of-fallout-4-while-refusing-to-do-the-main-quest-build-settlements-or-travel-with-anyone-but-dogmeat-id-much-rather-be-beaten-to-death-by-deathclaws/

[tepid wadi]

....what DOES he do for 10,000 hours in that game? Settlements and stuff related to them is like 3/4 of the content!

[ornate fractal]

Headcanon RP like me I guess. XD

[vague galleon]

leaving it on and never logging out.

[tranquil cove]

i did that too

i ignored the main quest for 100 hours so far

i did build 1 settlement, but i complained the f about it none stop in discord, even in this channel, because it's horribly bad mechanics. the only thing that makes me forgive it is that the game is from 2014

[ornate fractal]

[smiling in 2,500 hours]

[tranquil cove]

but hands down i hate the building, i am unsatisified by every aspect of it. and it's annoying, tedious, and frustrating to do especially without snap placement. and no ability to clean floors, or place floors and setting up wires.

just like i similarly think the building in NMS is pretty trash.

[timber prism]

this is wild haha

https://store.steampowered.com/app/686060/Mewgenics/

Steam

Mewgenics

The Ultimate Turn-Based Cat Tactics and Breeding Roguelite
From Edmund McMillen (The Binding of Isaac, Super Meat Boy) and Tyler Glaiel (Closure, The End Is Nigh) comes a deeply tactical legacy roguelite that asks:

What if you could breed the perfect army of whiskered warriors, then send them on tactical adventures in search of food, money…

Price

$26.99

Recommendations

741

Mewgenics released today!!!!

[tranquil cove]

fallout 4 is 115 hours, the most boring of the fallouts.
no mans sky is 400 hours.

im looking forward to a new fallout game though

and a new skyrim

i also have huge complaints about skyrim

skyrim i also have 400 hours

fallout new vegas 145, and fallout 3 no hours? which tells me i played it before i had it on steam. i must have gotten 150-200 hours in it though

[ornate fractal]

Shoutout to Cozy Keep, one of my fave games, getting an update and a temporary discount!
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2261350/view/496093884585085711
https://youtu.be/NSS168i4Uek

[frank sonnet]

bonk

[round beacon]

NMS casually throwing another free update out lol

[vague galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/jesse-jesse-pinkman-he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-this-breaking-bad-walter-gif-11328503629570473915

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/IXWYo58yiz4?si=M0NBk0VuttIAlqd-

[frank sonnet]

my god we have been needing this for ages

[vague galleon]

system rework?

[misty arch]

it was added since the colossus is now customizable for different situations and allows you to save your loadouts

[frank sonnet]

a new look this update

[misty arch]

how far along are you in the expedition?

[frank sonnet]

oh damn i didn't know there was a expedition going on i'm probably going to start it some point later today

[misty arch]

yep, and it gives you all the new stuff and teaches you how to collect the new toxic objects

[misty arch]

out now, new dlc
https://youtu.be/motj_X3Qaas?si=bR3tGhH6ECcKwrtb

[vague galleon]

WHAT

[reef bobcat]

Could be cool, could be Blizzard Low Effort DLC.

I think I still like the OG games better than Diablo IV.

II was great.

III was better in some ways, worse in others.

Diablo IV is just "I can't even see what is happening on screen but I'll keep spamming this button until I, or they, die..." 😄

[frank sonnet]

for what its worth i tried out the beta test for diablo IV i liked it enough and went on play better isometric action rpgs like titan quest and path of exile

[reef bobcat]

I bought it the moment it was announced, carried on fond memories...

Then opened it to find box contained diarrhea.

And they tried several times to change it up and "fix" it but it just never landed for me.

[tepid wadi]

TQ2 is an excellent addition to my collection of ARPGs

TBH I want Grim Dawn 2, just because I feel like the visuals/gameplay in grim dawn are really showing their age. POE2 and TQ2 are really pushing the bar up for ARPGs

[vague galleon]

i still havent finished grim dawn. it's good, but i didnt get deep into it.

titanquest was decent too but like, no shiny loot, just mundane garbage.

[tepid wadi]

I like the setting of TQ

[vague galleon]

ya

same

[tepid wadi]

But if I'm being real honest, I miss the setting from Dungeon Siege 2

[reef bobcat]

I #$%&ing hate loot designed by RNG.

[tepid wadi]

Give me a REAL Dungeon Siege sequel, or an Arcanum ARPG

[reef bobcat]

Give me items that are 100% relevant to a build not whatever random BS.

[vague galleon]

Sacred Gold is really nice but I fell off it a lot and last time I just, got bored.

[reef bobcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gQgClzAl0M

[vague galleon]

to be honest you get sooo much loot in PROPER ARPGs that im fine with random loot.

[reef bobcat]

Random hates me, and I hate it.

Seriously.

[vague galleon]

but what's wild about torchlight 2 is the named uniques/legendaries have the most bizarre and garbage ablities!

[reef bobcat]

My Monk on Diablo IV got absolutely nothing relevant to my build, ever.

[vague galleon]

diablo 3 was an okay game. it was fine. i guess.

never bothered with D4

so if D4 is on steam can D2R be on steam as well?!

also no ARPG has matched the joy of finding gems that diablo 2 brought.

[reef bobcat]

All the Diablo games are on steam now. Even Diablo itself. No number.

[tepid wadi]

The thing that bugged me about D3 was that there was no build "investment". You could just swap builds to whatever you had the best gear for

[vague galleon]

oh shit it is.

[reef bobcat]

And the builds were very, very limited in choice.

[round beacon]

dude... if you guys like arpgs... get ur hands on no rest for the wicked... what a game!

[reef bobcat]

"Get all of this side, or all of that side... hmmmm...."

[vague galleon]

maybe

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, NRFTW is awesome

I'm interested to try the co-op at some point

[round beacon]

coop is fun as heck. including friendly fire :3

[vague galleon]

i wonder if theres ANY way I can tranger from battle.net

probably NOT

[tepid wadi]

Oh no, co-op where you have to think? My friends will be terrible at that

[vague galleon]

I love me some ARPGs but I NEED to be getting loot. that's like half the point of the game.

[reef bobcat]

So, if you buy Battle.net games on Steam, they still go through Battle.net

[round beacon]

its fun y cus you can "accidently" push ur guys over cliffs xD

[vague galleon]

i already own D2R on battle.net

[reef bobcat]

Steam is just the distrubutor, game still uses Battle.net launcher or whatever

[vague galleon]

oh. 🙁

[reef bobcat]

Some games give you free codes for steam.

[vague galleon]

noooo

[reef bobcat]

I don't know if Diablo games are such or not.

[vague galleon]

i wonder how much the dlc costs

[round beacon]

games throwin loot at you left right n center.

also funfact: every. single. weapon. has its own moveset (so not all.axes do the same. not all swords do the same. not all hammers do the same etc)

[frank sonnet]

path of exile was fun until it became a slow slog for me

[vague galleon]

well frell me it's 25 dollars for the dlc.

i hate blizzard. 25 bucks for a single class and a little bit of game update. no new zones.

[round beacon]

honestly? as much as i loved old blizz. whoever still sits under their grip.. is at fault themselves.

[frank sonnet]

nobody should be working there regardless

[vague galleon]

i used to love them back when i only had a mac, before i got my N64 and later GC, i could still play some PC games. but they've gotten so awful.

[round beacon]

im not talkin about workin there. even though ur rite. but still havin their launcher and stuff. theres other games much more worth ur time out there

[vague galleon]

no, you know what pisses me off. I was talking to a friend about diablo 2 ressurected two weeks ago and it was 40 dollars, now the same game plus dlc on steam is 40 dollars, but they want me to spend 25 dollars for the DLC.

OUTRAGEOUS

[reef bobcat]

Yeah, I mean... Parasitic Executives are gonna Parasite.

[frank sonnet]

eh star craft one and 2 are free there but for everything else your right

[reef bobcat]

The Shareholder Class needs nesting-doll yachts, afterall.

[vague galleon]

it's like a 10 dollar DLC at best.

ill wait for a sale.

[reef bobcat]

I'd give them $3.50 for it if they first threw Bobby Kottick out of a hot air balloon in class A airspace...

Apologies.

[frank sonnet]

damn that shitty huh?

[reef bobcat]

Google the story of "the Cosby rooms."

And yes.

Torches and Pitchforks stuff.

[frank sonnet]

i see blizard are all frat boys that didn't grow the hell up

[tepid wadi]

Oof

[vague galleon]

sigh, i used to find cosby to be one of the funniest. I even bought two of his special on dvd............................

i forget if I threw them out or not.

[reef bobcat]

Man I quoted Cosby so much. I grew up with his comedy specials, the Cosby Show, etc.

[vague galleon]

yup

[reef bobcat]

"Never meet your heroes" indeed 🙁

[ornate fractal]

May I have the source link for this image?

[frank sonnet]

https://kotaku.com/inside-blizzard-developers-infamous-bill-cosby-suite-1847378762

[frank sonnet]

unless you do a deep backround check and hire a private investigator look into them

[reef bobcat]

https://giphy.com/gifs/firefly-sheperd-special-hell-kSA7u0tUziLXq

[vague galleon]

i was on yahoo instant messanger, as was the style back in the day, and there was a radio option, and had it on the comedy station. and I was LAUGHING SO HARD at cosby on there.
siiiiiiiiiiiigh...........

[frank sonnet]

i'm lucky the celebrities' i like arn't complete shit bags

[vague galleon]

;;>_>

[frank sonnet]

most of them are dead so i can't meet them even i wanted too

[timber prism]

I just did a playthrough of it. Its not bad but fails at actually making the game tuned for coop. All the encounters became trivial

[tepid wadi]

Ah, that's too bad

[timber prism]

Its also a nightmare with more than 1 friend bc of friendly fire

We forced a friend to play ranged XD

[vague galleon]

i believe the reason i havent tried no rest yet is because it was single player.

[reef bobcat]

Cosby was not a shitbag until we found out he was. Cosby was wholesome family entertainment for almost the entirety of his career.

And I imagine most Priests that do bad things are, until that point, Pillars of their community and loved by all in the congregation.

And yeah, look what happens in most cases where allegations come up? Bubkiss. Or ruins the life of the accuser more than the accused.

That's why we usually don't find out until years later.

Would you have wanted to go on national television and accuse Cosby of such at the height of his career?

Apologies, I'll go find some other passing cloud to yell at.

[timber prism]

They did fix that timegated building and resources which is a huge plus

[tepid wadi]

Well, part of it is that communication has changed immensely since the height of cosby's career. Back when Tv/Radio were the only method of receiving communication, it was so centralized that you couldn't know intimate details about any celebrities or things like that.

[timber prism]

Building the town was way better this go around and same with crafting food etc

[tepid wadi]

That's good, yeah. Timegating in a single player game is super weird for anything beyond like a minute or two

[vague galleon]

timegating?

[timber prism]

Yes

[tepid wadi]

It would take hours (days? Weeks?) for things to complete in No Rest For The Wicked after you queued them up.

Gating progression behind a timer

[vague galleon]

hmmm

[timber prism]

Ima wait till 1.0 to try it out again but its def better imo than when it first release and the first big update

Nioh 3 and Mewgenics got me locked in atm XD

[reef bobcat]

Let's say that is likely easier for you or I to say, than for the people it happened to.

[tepid wadi]

Timegating only really works in games when:

1. It isn't a major hindrance that prevents you from playing (5 minutes or less as a timer)
2. It's diagetically appropriate (makes sense to the player why something is minorly time gated, like "it takes a minute for the metal to heat up for smithing" or "the meat takes a little bit to cook")

[frank sonnet]

lets cap it off here for the Cosby talk

[timber prism]

It can also work if done right with regional releases but for the most part I just hate timegating lmao

[tepid wadi]

Yeah timegating major content releases is something I'd file under "diagetically appropriate", but it's definitely on a larger scale and obviously only makes sense for large games like MMOs

[misty arch]

that is now a thing of the past and they have added up to 4 player co-op

[vague galleon]

well sadly i already have too many games and shows and books. bleh.

[misty arch]

lol

[vague galleon]

also, NGL, kind of tired of every arpg having that dark and gritty vibe.

torchlight has a way better aesthetic for me.

[timber prism]

@tepid wadi I just saw that Highguard laid off a majority of its devs??? Your friends okay???

[vague galleon]

just wish TL3 wasnt so bad.

and the base game is still 40?!

[tepid wadi]

I actually wasn't super close to the team that made it 🤷‍♀️ But it's always a shame to see devs getting laid off.

[timber prism]

Ahh

[tepid wadi]

TQ2 is definitely a lighter vibe for an ARPG

[vague galleon]

i WANT to play through TQ1 but the loooooooooooooot suuuuuuuuuuucks

[timber prism]

I hope TQ2 ends up good. I had a blast with the first one

[vague galleon]

Sacred Gold I really need to get back to, AGAIN

[timber prism]

The EA is too bare bones to really see how it will end up

[tepid wadi]

I played the early access, which was just hte first chapter when I did it and it seemed good. I'm waiting for the full release to jump back in.

[misty arch]

I do hope the Dark West turns out to be good. Granted it still has that gritty undertone to it

[tepid wadi]

At least it's a different theme and dark though

[misty arch]

exactly

[timber prism]

As a melee enjoyer... I hope they can make melee builds satisfying in a western

[tepid wadi]

Gimme a good steampunk ARPG, Arcanum ARPG would be legit

[misty arch]

whips maybe

[timber prism]

Shovel XD

Or hatchets

[tepid wadi]

A new wh40k arpg would be cool. The existing one is kinda showing it's age

[timber prism]

People hated on that 40k arpg but I didnt think it was that bad

[tepid wadi]

It was fine but it wasn't amazing, t hat's for sure.

[timber prism]

Yeah

[vague galleon]

id grab it on a SALE

[timber prism]

Def middle of the road type game

[misty arch]

and in other shooter type news
https://youtu.be/P6SuTylA1Vs?si=iLxEz-8MnKWfVClc

would you like to learn more?

[tepid wadi]

Kind of a boomer shooter it looks like?

[reef bobcat]

Ugh. No game has gotten this right, because the movie didn't get it right.

Mobile Infantry had Power Armor.

They weren't meat sent into the grinder by comically insane fascism...

Just, y'know, your average Military Industrial Complex fascism.

[vague galleon]

True.

[reef bobcat]

Sorry, sorry, "some other cloud," I'll show myself out...

[vague galleon]

my brother loved that book.

[reef bobcat]

Was not my favorite Heinlein book, but yeah Verhoeven immediately hated the book and thought it was glorifying fascism.

So turned it into a satirical burn on said fascism...

[vague galleon]

ya, it wasnt really.

[reef bobcat]

Right. It was just "what that time and world were like" - Heinlein wrote both the Libertarian Bible (Farnham's Freehold), and the Hippy Free Love Bible (Stranger in a Strange Land.)

He believed in neither.

Speculative Fiction 😄

About the only similarity between the movie, and the book... is the name.

[tepid wadi]

Speculative fiction can be really cool

[reef bobcat]

It was my favorite type of scifi when I still read all the time. Devoured several books a week in high school.

Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov..

[vague galleon]

i didnt have enough books to read as a kid. and i never really sought things out, I just consumed what was available. 🙁

[frank sonnet]

did you frequent your local library?

[vague galleon]

to play runescape? yes.

[tepid wadi]

lol

[vague galleon]

and gamesdomain

neopets

soooo many java game websites

like bonus.com

playjavagames.com greatjavagames.com

scared

burning metal 3d

sigh

[reef bobcat]

I lived in this tiny neighborhood of about 50 shoebox houses, surrounded by cornfields and woods and the junction of two highways. The borders of the towns on either side of us literally went around the edges of the neighborhood just about...

When I was 8, those cornfields turned into a crappy Outlet mall and a public library

I spent a LOT of time in that library 😄

[vague galleon]

ya, internet and video games were very enticing.

and without parents encouraging more reading or woodworking. 🙁

[reef bobcat]

The neighborhood was finally allowed to join one of the neighboring towns, long after I'd left 😄

[reef bobcat]

This was 1986. No video games or movies there yet.

[vague galleon]

exactly. I was born too late

[daring wave]

Kids these days.

[reef bobcat]

Meh. Kids in any day.

😄

[daring wave]

Tru😂

[reef bobcat]

I can tell you some really stupid stories from my childhood. But I won't.

[vague galleon]

👀

[tepid wadi]

Thankfully, the dumb shit I did as a kid was before everyone was carrying a video camera 😝

[reef bobcat]

Kids of every generation do stupid things, and each generation is a different edition of dumb.

https://giphy.com/gifs/what-huh-hm-BKbCiVJmqMb1nCCFS9

[daring wave]

I dunno, maybe it's because I'm older, but they sure seems dumba today's.

[reef bobcat]

And kids of each generation have wholly different issues to deal with, as well.

[daring wave]

This is a huge fact.

[reef bobcat]

I watched a friend punch a glass pane window, on purpose, trying to be cool.

I watched kids dang near burn down our neighborhood playing with fireworks.

[vague galleon]

because we're more aware of it cause of cameras.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, I remember seeing neigborhood kids shooting each other with roman candles

[reef bobcat]

I had friends that played mailbox baseball and one got a concussion when the bat bounced off the mailbox and back into his forehead.

[daring wave]

Oh, I've done that. Not to be cool tho🤣
I was just young and pissed off and stupid.

[reef bobcat]

No, he was trying to be all ninja show off after taking like two karate lessons lol

To be fair, he broke the window just fine...

[daring wave]

Sounds like every school friend I ever had lol

[reef bobcat]

Including myself, to a lesser degree.

[daring wave]

Yup🤣

[reef bobcat]

Turned out, I wasn't very good at showing off, so, y'know

I grew out of it faster 😄

[daring wave]

Same. I learnt my lesson the hard way. I wouldn't change that tho.

[tepid wadi]

I was "The responsible one" (the one who could drive) so I got into fewer shenanigans because there were actual consequences, lol

[reef bobcat]

Oh, I had a whole nihilism thing going in my late teenage years and was no responsible party

Just managed not to do anything overly stupid 😄

[daring wave]

"young, dumb and full of ...... Well, let's just say enthusiasm" lol.

[reef bobcat]

I wasn't stupid, per se... just bored and lacking sufficient F's...

And then someone is like "Let's go cliff diving at an abandoned quarry!" and off I go...

[tepid wadi]

Start of a horror movie, for sure.

[reef bobcat]

Basically.

But all we got was tresspassing charges 🙁

[daring wave]

I have done exactly this. Good times.

[reef bobcat]

Or, not but a few miles away from that dumb idea, the abandoned water processing plant...

The "Aquadome" spooky noises

Like a right of passage for the entire county.

Anyways, Off-Topic is <- That Way. Apologies.

[tepid wadi]

We can relate it back. Games need ways to allow players to do that level of dumb shit with appropriate consequences

[daring wave]

I think this conversation classifies as "Games". Just a different type of games.

[reef bobcat]

Wasn't there a like body-physics parkour game that was basically that?

Mirror's Edge, but focused on making you fall and die hilariously?

[daring wave]

Heard of it, never tried it.

[reef bobcat]

Four year old reddit thread confirms there were several such 😄

[tepid wadi]

Yeah there have been a few with various levels of success

Shenanigans like that are pretty common in "friendslop" games because it's kind of the point

[reef bobcat]

Those are almost always short lived, but there are some gems or big success stories.

[tepid wadi]

definitely

[reef bobcat]

Like, for some unknown reason, Untitled Goose Game.

Goat Simulator.

Among Us, though I dunno if that is quite "friendslop"

[tepid wadi]

I don't think Among Us counts, BUT it is probably the inceptor for "multiplayer shenanigans game" that birthed friendslop

[reef bobcat]

Fair.

[timber prism]

What was the tide pods of the 80s/90's?

I clearly dont remember anything that we did that was equivalent to that.. maybe snort pixie sticks XD

[reef bobcat]

Without the internets, that stuff was more regional than everywhere.

[timber prism]

even regionally.. i dont remember the east coast having anything on that level

[reef bobcat]

The airwaves were occupied by fake fears not examples of stupid human tricks.

Needles and drugs in the halloween candy.

D&D making your kids crazy.

[vague galleon]

razroblades in apples and snickers

[reef bobcat]

The closest thing I can think of in my childhood is people huffing gas.

But that was to get high, not some challenge.

Other "challenges" were fairly boring and equally stupid: chug this beer / liquor.

[timber prism]

that just sounds like high school / college XD

im pretty sure kids these days still do that

[reef bobcat]

Or some idiot trying to show off; often involving a motorcyle or 4-wheel vehicle.

Bottle rocket wars?

I only have a couple scars from that...

And then we had Truth or Dare, where only the lamest dares happened and the rest should not and did not happen because teenage boys.

[timber prism]

bottle rocket wars was great XD

[daring wave]

EVERYTHING was a dare as a kid.
The ones that survived learned quick that they didn't need to try it all.

[reef bobcat]

The Double Dog Dare lasted from about the early 40's up through the late 90's at least...

[misty arch]

https://media.tenor.com/_Fqwl_NaO-kAAAAM/achristmasstory-tripledogdare.gif

[misty arch]

BTW, Diablo 2 was also stealth released on Game Pass for those who have it.

[reef bobcat]

[frank sonnet]

imagine the new nms portal gun on corrvette space walks

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/HD0dMr3kAQs?si=b3wx9jrHjSN6nuRI

https://youtu.be/dxB5NcPrN4c?si=8vHNGr44ox8bJ-bi

https://youtu.be/X3-SJLWzjmE?si=4F1uL5cKNwjTz7fm

https://youtu.be/4b6hcN5vZsw?si=YcYmaeGOSsIJfMD-

https://youtu.be/IA71hdzim0M?si=CUdpgI7ZE-2UDFJ0

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/5VYyhow-EU8?si=2P-qPOZaEgw0IpeJ

https://youtu.be/Jocj5kRYcFE?si=30oOflKx7mok7C_0

https://youtu.be/fXVy4mALHLY?si=kGSlAW4GwD-U4YOy

https://youtu.be/OcLGdMG0L8Q?si=ZqHp_NUyZxMOy3pj

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/CvN3dP92wxU?si=8gA03jXNzKDHP3K7

[frank sonnet]

already? this feels too soon

[vague galleon]

I wonder why I never got into the dead or alive games.... oh right, arent they mainly on the xbox?

i generally prefered Soul Caliber for fighting games but stopped caring after SC3 cause they kept aging up characters and eventually replaced my favorites.

[frank sonnet]

you don't strike as someone whos into cheesecake factory's

[vague galleon]

I love fan service. *

*depends on how it's done and etc.

I actually tend to avoid it in video games though because as much as I do like it. it's very.... distracting.

Sueng Mina was one of my mains in SC and Cammy is my main in Street Fighter, although it also happens that Im actually skilled with cammy. sooo, ya.

[frank sonnet]

i'm glad to see you got the joke

[vague galleon]

i didnt get the joke.

[frank sonnet]

oh i was just poking fun how dead or alive went from fighting game to swim suit model volleyball lol

[vague galleon]

ah ya.

i remember that game.

i remember hearing all about it. XD

never played it. never owned an xbox.

probably cause I got a GC and didnt have much spare money. i didnt get a PS2 until 2009

[frank sonnet]

astromine has a lot of potential

[spiral zenith]

D&D 5e players wanted!
We’re a group of 4 looking to add a few more adventurers to the party.
Interested? Shoot me a DM!

[reef bobcat]

Picked up Bellwright. I am surprised how many variations there are on this theme.

Not very far in yet, just have the My First Companion hunter dude.

He kills the bandits while I flail about hilariously.

But I am starting to figure it out.

[misty arch]

https://youtu.be/Tiw1PqQEDJc?si=PbWkg4NkQJP37VQD

[tepid wadi]

Lot of "sky island" games coming out for some reason

[vague galleon]

WE HAVE ENOUGH SURVIVAL GAMES

[reef bobcat]

NEVER!!!

[vague galleon]

THEYRE ALL TIME WASTERS

I ONLY HAVE TIME FOR TWO

[reef bobcat]

Fantasy RPGs, man. 10 million of them.

And every one is "But my elves are different!!" 😉

[vague galleon]

what fantasy rpg do we have besides elderscrolls that isnt a garbage game?

and mmos dont count cause they all suck.

[misty arch]

bg3

tainted grail

[reef bobcat]

Baldurs Gate 3. Solasta. Neverwinter Nights. Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2. The Paththfinder games.

Several Zelda Games, the old SSI Gold Box games, the Dragonlance titles by the same...

Quest for Glory, King's Quest, Diablo 1 through 3...

[tepid wadi]

👀

[reef bobcat]

Several Final Fantasy games

[vague galleon]

you heard me.
wow is trash.

zelda is an adventure game.
no customization.
final fantasy is all group turn base.

diablo is just a dungeon crawler. kill loot repeat.

[tepid wadi]

Maybe one day someone will make a MMO that doesn't suck 😢

[vague galleon]

why the heck am i the chosen one? theres 5 million other chosen ones!

give me an mmo that respects the fact that theres 5 million other players.

[tepid wadi]

I want to build a MMO that is a world that is just... enjoyable to exist in.

Like, it just feels good to log in and do whatever

Crafting, exploration, combat, wandering around, just... fun without a million strings attached

[vague galleon]

its kind of lame but i too always wanted a game i can just chill in. hang out in. go off and do adventure. build, craft, explore, fight, play minigames.

like i should go hang out in the real world but somedays you get home from work and you just want to sink into your chare and stare at a rectangle for a few hours.

[reef bobcat]

Man the real world ain't never welcomed me. Shitshow most of my gorram life.

Even when I had an active social life and lots of friends. Just constant disappointment and being told the beatings will continue until morale improves.

[tepid wadi]

I mean, I really think that's the thing that MMOs could provide that other games really can't. An interconnected world full of different types of players engaging in different sorts of activities, all having a good time and doing whatever they want.

But so many modern MMO projects just boil down to "Combat and mechanics that support combat" that they don't actually sustain an audience because there just isn't enough to do that is enjoyable.

[vague galleon]

gta online came close.

[tepid wadi]

MANY projects get somewhere close, but it's always like 60% of the way there, because I don't think they actually think about it in that same headspace of "connected world with tons to do"

That's why OSRS is so popular still, because there's a ton to do

[reef bobcat]

They don't. Or, rather, they do, but assholes come along and ruin it.

Hell is other people 🙁

[tepid wadi]

IDK, I think that's a design problem too. You CAN design the game in such a way that players can only ruin your good time if you opt in to it (PvP specific activities that aren't mandatory), but for some reason a lot of MMO projects are focused on "all PvP all the time"

[vague galleon]

pvp. ew.

[tepid wadi]

You can also build mechanics that encourage positive interactions with other players in an asymmetric way, but for some reason no project has even attempted it

[vague galleon]

yup

[tepid wadi]

I think PvP could hold a really cool place in a MMORPG. Like imagine if there were ranked arenas that you could do, and when you joined an arena match, it was in a physical arena in the world where players could sit in the stands and watch matches.

So high profile arena matches could become an actual event that players attend in the game

[vague galleon]

GTA has minigames and lots of other stuff, i think you can actually spectate the arena stuff they did. but like, they let it die instead of giving us a reason to keep going, like huge payouts.

[tepid wadi]

Yeah, you gotta reward players for doing that stuff. One thing would be "league seasons" for PvP that give like... actual trophies as in-game rewards, that you can put in your (real-space) housing for other players to see.

[vague galleon]

the arcade was awesome and I WISH we could set one up on the yacht

[tepid wadi]

There are TONS of potential things you can do to encourage players to engage in a positive way, but like... for some reason no one attempts it

I get that MMOs are hard, but they also have a very unique promise as far as games are concerned.

[vague galleon]

i havent found any games similiar to elder scrolls that dont suck. most games where you run around like that have too little too them other than boring combat and a single storyline.

a co-op game like that would rock.

[tepid wadi]

I mean, there's a reason I want to do it myself 😝

[vague galleon]

same.

[reef bobcat]

PVP? It's assholes In chat even before you get to that. Or screaming at and demeaning the devs over whatever minor thing.

We are the problem. And we design solutions that don't work. 🙁

Apologies, "some other passing cloud..."

https://tenor.com/view/tv-simpsons-cloud-fist-grandpa-gif-12082744756246344299

[tepid wadi]

Idk, to me it sounds like a challenge. We can do it different, do it better. We just have to approach things from a different angle and reevaluate some core concepts.

[misty arch]

https://i.imgflip.com/1yv7ty.jpg

[reef bobcat]

I am sure Zerax would love 6 million dollars with which to build his team.

[tepid wadi]

Seeing as I'm currently looking into how to do it with zero dollars? ...lol yeah

[reef bobcat]

Well as soon as I win that Powerball...

[frank sonnet]

don't treat your opinion like its fact

[tranquil cove]

hire me for free

i will be co-founder/ceo

[vague galleon]

I'll do as I please.

[tranquil cove]

every game is a garbage game if you're looking for garbage

[tranquil cove]

which is currently hytale lol

[timber prism]

Second second life (the office)

[frank sonnet]

it makes you look arrogant

[vague galleon]

🤷‍♂️

[frank sonnet]

anyway i got my self trapped on the moon is astromine lol

[vague galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/desmond-the-moon-bear-asdf-gif-9797230

[timber prism]

When did you become Valourant???? This is totally giving "i dont like it means its trash" vibes

[timber prism]

Did you try Tainted Grail? I know a few have enjoyed that one

[vague galleon]

how DARE you compare me to him! damn thats hurtful! 🤣
I mean, dont get me wrong, ES has a lot of flaws too. but seriously, go back and look at the past 20 years of fantasy RPGs. not turn based ones like final fantasy, JRPGs dont count.
there's a lot of bad ones that were just weak as heck.

and im not refering to the ANCIENT golden box games either.

im talking about games like Two Towers.

but no, I looked at tainted grail and was like, ANOTHER grim dark game. yawn.

oh i forgot about the dark souls games.

im sure they're well made but way too "everything sucks now" for me.

[timber prism]

There was that game that was just like Bethesda games rpgs that dropped last year

Avowed

Its very rpg light

Or KCD2??? Which isnt grim dark at all

[vague galleon]

oh, ya, looked at that one.

KCD2 has no magic. but solid and hard sword play.

[timber prism]

Its full on medieval sim rpg

Yeah. Still a rpg

Xd

[vague galleon]

gonna be honest. KCD1 is good, but i got boooooooooored.

[timber prism]

So its a you problem xd

[vague galleon]

X[

[timber prism]

Not that good rpgs dont exist

[vague galleon]

it doesnt have magic!

i want fantasy!

[timber prism]

Its okay. I dont really enjoy KCD2 either haha

Its just too much of a slow burn to be enjoyable for me

Its a great game tho

[vague galleon]

i wish Summoner 2 was on PC.... i need some mods/cheats to truly enjoy it.

just one. infinite gold. that's it.

[ornate fractal]

I loved Avowed.

And it's funny that Enshrouded was my next big game with Fallout 4 between, cause Enshrouded's just base building and || dealing with mushroom problems ||, so a basically the two dominant themes of the other 2 games.

[tranquil cove]

i never say anything is trash because i dont like it?
and i never say any game that has issues is complete trash.
i've actually consistently criticized people who rate things 1/10 based on 1 thing they dislike.
i've shown that i don't give negative reviews, only positive ones.
i've explicitly talked about how i rated baldurs gate 3 8/10 and how upset that makes everyone, who i think go to the other extreme and call it a 10/10 game with no ability to be critical about it.

i've actually played games i don't particularly like for 300-1000 hours

i'm not sure what 'vibes' all of this gives, but it's not what you said lol

[misty arch]

so this could be a problem for all
https://www.pcgamer.com/software/platforms/oh-good-discords-age-verification-rollout-has-ties-to-palantir-co-founder-and-panopticon-architect-peter-thiel/

[ornate fractal]

Called iiiiiit. What f&#%ers.

[vague galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/wake-up-morning-good-morning-gif-12990329504621581877

[frank sonnet]

teens should be at the mall not on the internet all day

[ornate fractal]

Boomers took malls away from us.

[frank sonnet]

and everywhere else kids could be piss's me off

[ornate fractal]

Pfft.

[vague galleon]

blame the internet

although the mall in green bay is still plenty active.

[ornate fractal]

As Nick Lutsko said, "Jeff Bezos murdered Barnes & Noble, Jeff Bezos murdered Sears / Jeff Bezos murdered Toys R Us but *Halloween is almost here!"

[vague galleon]

Barnes and Noble is still around.

RIP SEARS though.

RIP borders......... Borders > BnN.

[ornate fractal]

Well you better get to writing a letter to Mr. Lutsko. 😸

[vague galleon]

who?

[ornate fractal]

The guy I named in the comment that you're responding to, goober. Here, lemme give you his address.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aH-pP3PAIc

[tranquil cove]

for the record i was saying 10 years ago

"if i was a government spy agency like the CIA/NSA etc, and i wanted to spy on the public for free and make it as ambigous as possible and unsuspecting. what would i do? of course i would design a gaming program, that records all chat for all time, and sees what programs you are running on your system, in the guise of 'for gaming'."

[vague galleon]

you're a goober!

[ornate fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/aww-sweet-little-rascals-gif-10157077264497509913

[vague galleon]

😛

[frank sonnet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/season-3-the-simpsons-3x11-xT5LMQ8rHYTDGFG07e

i made it back to earth

[timber prism]

You constantly critique games as not being good because they arent done exactly how you like it. "Trash= not good" At one point it was so bad that we wondered if you even liked games to begin with

But you are right. I dont think you have actually called a game trash before

[tranquil cove]

thats what we call an interpretation, which is subject to being wildly inaccurate based on a few sentences someone writes in a texting program, which leaves lots of room for assumption, since i am not taking time to write an essay.

yeah nobody asked me what i would rate the game

i do speak hyperbolic sometimes

[tepid wadi]

TBH I don't think we'd work super well together simply because we have very different opinions about what game we want to make 😝

[tranquil cove]

you never know until we work together

[tepid wadi]

We've had enough discussions that it's pretty clear. We definitely agree on some points, but nowhere near all.

[timber prism]

Anyways. That is the vibes I was getting from @vague galleon statements earlier before he narrowed his list of "no good rpgs" to having to be high fantasy and not turned based XD

[tranquil cove]

it's not just disagreement it's how you disagree, those discussions weren't between us either

they were between us and like 3-4 instigators

[reef bobcat]

Hug it out you two 😉

[timber prism]

Wait. People are having an argument???

[reef bobcat]

Remember that text chat is really easy medium to read wrong

[tepid wadi]

Truth

[vague galleon]

to be fair i absolutely should have been more detailed. 😛

[tranquil cove]

can you remember something significant we disagree on then?

[vague galleon]

but when im looking for an RPG "like ES", there's just soooo many bad ones over the last 20 years or more.

[tepid wadi]

With AI on the field, the number of bad games is definitely going to grow very quickly 😝

[tranquil cove]

the way i view things, is that we have different things we might prioritize or value. not outright disagreement, but different angles/perspective. both perspectives are actually correct.

[timber prism]

I think its fair to say every genre has a lot of bad games XD

[vague galleon]

yes

[timber prism]

You know what isnt bad tho

MEWGENICS

[vague galleon]

and dont get me started on the lack of (non-isekia) visual fantasy media.

like if I want to read a paperback novel i can drown in the stuff.

but anime or shows? lol get rekt.

it's an mmo! it's an isekia! it's a real fantasy world with people from that world but they have video game menus for some reason!

[tepid wadi]

It's definitely... weird though. Not for everyone

[vague galleon]

i dunno. eugenics is an icky topic. but i did hear that the Prof is in it!

[timber prism]

Yeah. It is def weird for sure

[tranquil cove]

i want to make a game like the movie 'sneakers', where two friends, or lovers were together, but they get split apart due to radical/extremist beliefs, and the point of the game is to de-brainwash or reach the other person. 🤣 in the same vein as the story game series 'life is strange'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coDtzN6bXAM

that could be a good game, if done right

[timber prism]

The roguelite part and tactical system is so well done. I think my only complaint is runs can get stopped during progression when you are clearly doing well and continue

[vague galleon]

roguelite.

https://tenor.com/view/gross-disgust-gran-torino-clint-eastwood-gif-3880005

[timber prism]

Roguelites are amazing 🔥

Can be*

[vague galleon]

every game these days are roguelite or survival.

hey, I love risk of rain 2!

[timber prism]

Broaden your games then xd

[tepid wadi]

That's because they're a lot easier to make in some ways

Returnal is a great example of a AAA-level roguelike

[timber prism]

Im playing Nioh 3 which is a ninja Gaiden looter

Haha

[vague galleon]

Gaiden.................

[timber prism]

Please dont be a NG hater

[tranquil cove]

make a debating game, and you need to win arguments

[timber prism]

😭

[tranquil cove]

lol

[vague galleon]

not a hater