1470-1600 discussion

[split bone]

discuss the above here

[covert loom]

@astral falcon the czech combination cleaver, gun and calendar of saints

[astral falcon]

Oh that

[covert loom]

I think the calendar is to add extra holy damage

[astral falcon]

i fucking hate combo weapons

except some gun spears/halberd they kindaz cool

[covert loom]

I can't help but appreciate how gimmicky they are sometimes

[astral falcon]

they are mostly gimmicky yeah

they flexing about how intricately (and cool) they were

[twin heron]

Field armor for king henry the 8th, c. 1540s

Look at that fully articulated breast

Articulated bevor + gorget as well

And a c1560s halfplate for good measure, innsbrook

Held by the metropolitan in new york

The preservation on the gilding is superb

I notice that these 3/4 sets dont have lance rests, i suppose because theyre for foot usage

But for the king henry the 8th set youd think a king would spend most of a battle mounted

Finally, a silvered and gilt full harness from c 1600, milan

Another met museum pieve

Engraving and inlay are something that i find really fascinating because of the incredible labor that goes into them

[covert loom]

so, so pretty

[fleet crescent]

getting excited

[fleet crescent]

ideal drip

tassels on pommels should never have gone out of fashion

[split bone]

Heat !

[fleet crescent]

exciting times

[cunning grove]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/2132241098/in/album-72157603168542128/ do armour scholars have name for this style of armour?

Is it considered as 'maximilian armour'?

[split bone]

just looks like traditional late gothic armor to me

albeit with some fluting

[cunning grove]

I see, it's pretty rare for me to find gothic armour without plackart. Thank you for the info! 😄

[split bone]

i may be wrong but i believe during the late 1400s the paunce of plates was able to be fastened to the cuirass without a plackart

i've seen that kind of thing on some flemish and english armor

not sure exactly how it was done though

[cunning grove]

Yeah I've seen those plate skirt being made separately too.

I gotta find more of pic of late gothic armour, I really dig the design

[split bone]

there's one kit i've seen that im trying to find that i absolutely loved

[cunning grove]

Speaking of late gothic armour, this one made by Plattnerei Wiedner is fantastic

Pretty sure it is based on a drawing found in a book called Thun sketchbook or something

[split bone]

@cunning grove found it, looks similar to what you posted

[split bone]

yes !

[cunning grove]

Whoa that's a pretty unique arm pieces.

[split bone]

enclosed pauldrons from the early 1500s

[split bone]

"rolled-down vamps"?

[fleet crescent]

ye

[split bone]

OHH

[fleet crescent]

Armorer: "What kinda helmet u want?

[simple tendon]

weird tassets

kinda weird everything really

[fleet crescent]

maybe intentionally old fashioned. looks late 16th century. I like all the ropework

[split bone]

It's from a tournament book made in the 1560s, and a lot of the equipment is specialized for tournamental use. The artist takes a crack at illustrating ~1200s armor and... doesn't do great. Shield's also oriented in a wacky way. The first section of the book is to illustrate the evolution of tournaments and takes some artistic liberties (pretty much just a lack of knowledge) when drawing stuff pre-1500s. The figure big dave posted is some of the better work of that section.

In response to the following:
@simple tendon
@fleet crescent
-SamOfSaturn

[simple tendon]

that armour looks kinda cool though, I fuck with it

[covert loom]

Where is this from?

[raw apex]

dragons dogma mod iirc

[fleet crescent]

yeah exactly, Dragon's Dogma 2 mods
the Maximilian armour is available here:
https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2/mods/896

the remaining mods will be released

[covert loom]

Neat!

[fleet crescent]

Gothic armour created by DaDG's RobertoRavioli and also carefully modded into the game by Ridog8 also coming

[split bone]

HECK yeah

[covert loom]

I just noticed the messer and shield, wow

looks like I'll have to get the game now

[fleet crescent]

😁 I commissioned the shield from this great artist MisterDjD: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WXdXY2

based one taken from the battle of Dornach. wanted to recreate the triumphal procession combo

if you get the game and are interested in anything I have posted screenshots of, let me know and I'll be happy to send it. a decent amount of it has yet to be uploaded on the Nexus site

[covert loom]

Now I just gotta find out if I can run it

[fleet crescent]

so obscure I assumed it must have been looted in ww2
actually the german historical museum is just stingy as fuck with digital repros

[cunning grove]

Fantastic armour!

[trim surge]

ca 1540s Opus Amplissimum de Arte Athletica (Cod.icon. 393)

armored fencing from the same manual

[covert loom]

Is that the one by Mair?

[trim surge]

yes, iirc

[covert loom]

Absolutely beautiful, definitely worth it committing embezzlement for (and being subsequently executed for it)

[trim surge]

LOL absolutely

[fleet crescent]

but looking at it now compared to the drawing in the berlin museum it must have been deliberate with that odd shape of the face hole or whatever it's called

I guess it's still called a bevor even when it's integrated into the armet

[split bone]

there are a bunch in the thun sketchbook if you haven’t checked those out already

[fleet crescent]

are there?
I can barely make out much with the shit reproductions of it tbh

[split bone]

several

[fleet crescent]

I guess presumably like top right here?
or on this tourney helm? or some of the other tourney helms depicted used in combat? though those all looked prett conventional to me
otherwise I cant really see any but its also hard to tell the difference between some of the sallets with no tails, some of the armets, and what the specific shape of some of the visors are with how bad the resolutin on the vast majority of the reproductions are

better res

[split bone]

this is a grand bascinet

[fleet crescent]

Ye i referred to it as tourney helm

Arent these a bit broad to qualify as sallet visored bascinets?

[split bone]

these are armets

[fleet crescent]

A lot of german museums i think refer to armets with one piece visors as just 'Visierhelm'

[split bone]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/3o_FXt-3Z3EAAAAC/monster-versus.gif

what do you mean one piece visors

[fleet crescent]

Oh yeah yeah i just misspoke

Well what do you mean by sallet visor?

Because those just look like visors in a single piece to me. They are composed of one hinged piece

[split bone]

oh

that's just a collection of the armets in the thun sketchbook

the ones that look like sallets are the sallet visored ones

which is like one of them

but a couple of them have a similar profile

my faul

t]

[fleet crescent]

Oooh i see fair fair

[split bone]

[fleet crescent]

but yeah I thought you meant there were a bunch of armets with half visors in the thun album like on the left which is why i was perplexed
I do want to see more though because they're fascinating and rare and yet seem to have some kind of weird tradition from the 15th into at least the early 16th century

[split bone]

some sallety full visors

[fleet crescent]

yeah I saw you post that and wanted to see if the museum had a reproduction but its so annoying that the Cluny museum is one of those places with only a selection of the collection reproduced

but this on wikimedia was pretty good at least. it might just be a less cropped higher res version of yours? reflection looks identical

very nice

their tabbard designs are amazing too

[split bone]

at this point in time it would be more likely called a livery coat

tabards are like 1200s, no sleeves, sometimes not tied at the sides

[fleet crescent]

awesome

always like to know more specific names

[fleet crescent]

1524-28 Dosso Dossi - Ritratto di Ercole I d'Este [copy of 1494 portrait]

[split bone]

ZAMN

[fleet crescent]

1490-95 Bianchi Ferrari Francesco - Pala Delle tr Croci

[magic blaze]

their names are hegot

hegot dadrip

[fleet crescent]

they should have never stopped adding tassles to weapons tbh

more Dosso

[fleet crescent]

1521-24 Ortolano - Saint Demetrius

[split bone]

these paintings are heat

[fleet crescent]

hell yeah
all thanks to museums with good reproductions (gallerie estensi, national gallery london) + dezoomify

the italian alla tedescha stuff around the beginning of the 16th century is beautiful

[fleet crescent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJKDyGW1lz0

[magic blaze]

sawfish sword

[wispy ermine]

what is this from?

[split bone]

dragons dogma 2 mod

[fleet crescent]

ye it will probably take some more months and hopefully capcom doesnt release another update that screws up mesh mods, but find Ridog8 on dragons dogma 2 nexus and keep an eye on his page and eventually a bunch of stuff like that will be released. the Maximilian armour itself is already out + updated to the latest version of the game, but the accoutrements are not released yet

[prisma loom]

hi, is there any contemporary artwork of black sallet? ik they werent very common but im curious & if needed i'll provide image cuz im kinda stupid and might be calling something the wrong thing

[split bone]

black sallet is already kind of a misnomer

it was more likely that they were covered by textile and that's why they werent as polished

it wasnt necessarily a lower tier thing

[fleet crescent]

seems like the wallace collection has one

many depicted here

the Albertina is super stingy with reproductions (this is from the 1550 copy in the austrian national library) but the Altdorfer workshop depicted heaps in the Triumphal Procession and then later for the Battle of Issus painting

[fleet crescent]

but yeah like sam says it's a vague category that can be mistakenly applied to helmets that are clearly elaborate and probably expensive despite the name implying that they're crude and I guess made of cheaper iron rather than steel? and also to helmets of entirely different shape - e.g. this one would fit into the category because of how broad it is

so I guess one of those 'academic' anachronisms to be taken with a huge grain of salt. but a functional category, in a way

[astral falcon]

Also all the "black sallets" left that we can look at have little holes around, indicating that they were covered and not painted

[fleet crescent]

Kunsthistorisches Museum uses 'large sallet' to title them now https://www.khm.at/objektdb/detail/547292/?offset=1&lv=list

in older publications they're also referred to as wälsche (romance-speaking foreign) AND black Schallern which is even vaguer and more confusing since I only ever see germans wearing them lol

[fleet crescent]

if I had to guess based on Boheim. because this helmet #references♥_1450-1470 message is referred to as a kind of Italian sallet, it's possible that its form being similar to the 'black sallets' (VERY broadly - obviously it has the form of a war hat, but is refered to as an 'italian sallet' by Boheim) led to part of the conflation in older literature, but that's just a guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[astral falcon]

I think it just cuz in Italian celata was used to refer any light helmets

Sometimes ever armets

I have an oc meme about that but i'm in bed ...

[split bone]

usually those full face ones are called owl faces sallets innit

[fleet crescent]

visor is referred to as 'owl-faced' but this guy refers to it as a black sallet (and wallace collection insinuates same thing in its description) I guess cause the paint and metal quality

2022 Chris Dobson - Kunz Schott, Death and the Devil

[wispy ermine]

would you reccomend the game as it is? cos if theres that type of mods for it im down as long as its a decent game

[split bone]

heck yeah i would

cool quests, cool items, AMAZING combat, extensive character creator

i basically cloned myself lol

[wispy ermine]

alright thats pretty sweet im gonna check that out

holy 70$ batman

[split bone]

i got it on sale lol

[cunning grove]

https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/fine-art-prints/Guillaume-Desremaulx/1168767/Knight-with-the-Arms-of-Jean-de-Daillon.html

Really like the armour in this tapestry

He's wearing 2 maile skirt?

No wait he's wearing mail shirt and skirt isn't he

[split bone]

not unheard of

more common in italy

[cunning grove]

His armour doesn’t look like it has plackart

Maybe it’s similar to this one

[split bone]

might be a separate paunce

[cunning grove]

Oh like the one youtuber I follow own 😄
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g42L3tXL-jM&t=162s

[split bone]

yes the separate paunce was a popular thing in england and became the norm in the early 1500s im pretty sure

[cunning grove]

Thanks for sharing the info 🙂

[astral falcon]

it does, it's just that late 15th century flemish style where the placard takes nearly the entire breastplate, but it's there

[astral falcon]

Like Sam said, not unheard off, for instance in italy you see a lot of skirts worn standalone and then another skirt attacked to the last lame of the paunce

[astral falcon]

imagine this placard but that goes higher

this is what the breastplate would look like alone

It's also present on 16th century cuirasses

[cunning grove]

That’s neat!

[astral falcon]

From a 1448 painting by Lo Scheggia. Exactly like Urlich IX's cuirass in Churbug

[fleet crescent]

going freydal mode

[fleet crescent]

love the Dürer Eustace type

[storm wolf]

this is my 1490 kit planning on getting new breastplate and arm armor and maybe a new helmet

[lunar hinge]

is that a purity seal on the sallet lol?

[storm wolf]

Yes. Was at a larp that day

[split bone]

covered couters are wonderful

[lunar hinge]

true..

[storm wolf]

I also have some covered spaulders but I opted to not use them that day

[fleet crescent]

the dating on these go back to the games date range but I've only ever seen illustrations from the 16th century

[twin heron]

King henry with the maxed sliders exanima build

[cunning grove]

Is the helm not mounted on the mannequin properly?

[fleet crescent]

maybe it's raised above it so the parts dont come into contact and scratch each other?

[cunning grove]

Do you think it’s a helmet for war or jousting?

[fleet crescent]

https://basedescollections.musee-armee.fr/ark:/66008/2019021?posInSet=1&queryId=9709b665-f0a0-4952-9301-a0e8a3283c2c

gogl translate

• During the first half of the 19th century, the armors housed at the Artillery Museum, the forerunner of the Army Museum, were all given flattering attributions, often disregarding the date of execution suggested by their morphology.

The most famous of Francis I's companions, the knight Bayard (1476-1524), thus figured prominently in this gallery of heroes, sovereigns, and great captains, even though no element of this armor formally links it to the "knight without fear and without reproach." However, by its type and dating, this high-quality equipment is particularly representative of that worn by the cavalrymen of the French gendarmerie at the beginning of the reign of Francis I (1494-1547, crowned in 1515). Enhanced by a light engraved and gilded band, bordered by a cord, the different pieces of the armor, with smooth and rounded shapes, correspond to the Franco-Lombard style, without it being possible to determine whether the whole was made in Milan or if it comes from a French workshop. It must be said that the master armorers of Tours or Lyon, who then dominated the armory production of the kingdom, were largely influenced by the work of the Milanese harness beaters, some of whom were established in trading posts in France as early as the 15th century.

makes me sad it's not actually Bayard's armour :/

they don't comment but it looks like a helmet for field use to me

[cunning grove]

Is the longsword blade decent enough? Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. I'm not very confident how long should the blade be.

[fleet crescent]

Im not well versed
but maybe instead of being straight all the way up to the tip, it should subtly taper along the whole length of the blade? that would be my only suggestion

[cunning grove]

ooh yeah you're right it the blade should be tapered a bit, thank you for pointing out rudiblock!

[fleet crescent]

length looks good though if it ends at the tip youve got

[storm wolf]

Hey I am getting a reproduction of this sword! It's about 140cm long

[storm wolf]

Here it is next to maximilian's armor from the 1480s

[lilac ibex]

bye

[oblique kindle]

😭

[oblique kindle]

Most dapper on the battlefield frrrr🔥

[lilac ibex]

died in whatever fashion statement he was doing

[split bone]

this ain’t no 1600

[lilac ibex]

are you sure

[astral falcon]

ok but if we still wore armor to this day this is probably what they would make

with the tradition of dress-armor and armors mimicking fabric and other "soft" clothing

[lilac ibex]

we do still wear armor

[astral falcon]

i'm going to kill you

[fleet crescent]

that is awesome
post some pictures when you get it

[storm wolf]

I will ill post it in my armor of course

[oblique kindle]

Reasonable crashout

[neon tangle]

a black sallet with a painted pattern from the 1490s

[astral falcon]

btw the paint was probably done much later

[neon tangle]

dang 😔

[lunar hinge]

the liner holes are a smoking gun for later painting (they were covered)

this is what they looked like in period

[flint fiber]

Does the black coloring make them more conducive to painting?

[lunar hinge]

what

[flint fiber]

There seems to be multiple surviving examples of painted black sallets but few other types of painted helms from the time period.

[lunar hinge]

they're not surviving examples of painted black sallets because there's like hard evidence for them never being painted to begin with

painting armor in general falls out of fashion in the XVth century

it's possible these may have been painted not too long after, but when they were contemporary there is zero evidence for painting them

[flint fiber]

I mean that there is a trend of painting black sallets well after their use

[lunar hinge]

I guess museums or whoever just liked doing that idfk. in the case of like 16th century painting of these, it was done for parades. As in they repurposed older armor for that

i think they also did it to a grand bascinet

perhaps it made it more interesting/eye catching to viewers

and thus more money for the museum

[flint fiber]

I just find it interesting that it seems to be specifically tied to the sallets

Ive never seen or heard of a painted armet

[lunar hinge]

i think there are way more black sallets that have been painted out there but there are extants that have been altered with paint

as in other armor/helmets

[fleet crescent]

the stars look similar to me which also seems sus. I get no one in their right mind considers the paint authentic but it just drives me nuts not knowing exactly when and why they were painted like this lol. i would have thought if these larger ones with long tails even had real heraldry on them someone would have pointed it out by now. I do not think the paint is authentic in case my comments come off as insinuating that lol

also, of course not that this is evidence that the long tail sallets were ever painted like that, but something relevant to helmet insignia in general I noticed is in swiss chronicles that sometimes particular swiss and burgundian forces are distinguished by the greek cross (+) and st andrews (x) respectively by depicting them as red marks on their helmets. of course this could just be the artists way of distinguishing the forces but i thought it was interesting

another thing I'd be interested to know more about is in this publication about the 'gekrönten ritter', whether when Maximilian says that they can have crowns on their helm or groyr (according to Karl Batsch: "The word is obviously related to 'kroyieren' or 'groiieren' and initially refers to the battle cry, the motto, the identifying mark in battle, then, as here especially, the helmet decoration, 'daz zimier uf dem helme'") if he means as physical objects, like crests, or depicted on the helms as insignia. he uses different language in earlier passages to refer to the depiction of the arms of the order of St. George on the gowns of the knights, so I'm assuming he means physical objects like crests, but I'd like to know more

[fleet crescent]

hey thanks for posting these
I commissioned MisterDJD (https://www.artstation.com/misterdjd) to make a sallet fabric cover asset for my Dragon's Dogma 2 mod and these refs seem to have inspired him in some blaze of passion

[lunar hinge]

no problem

[fleet crescent]

crown insignia on Louis XII's bodyguards

Louis XII rentre triomphalement dans Gênes (29 avril 1507). La tunique du roi et le caparaçon de son cheval sont faits d'un brocart au chiffre d'Anne de Bretagne couronné, d'or sur fond de gueules. Le dais ne porte pas le chiffre de la reine, mais présente une alternance de carrés damassés or et gueules.

[dim sierra]

🇨🇭 Anyone here got any sources describing the 1527 last stand of the swiss guard outside of St. Peters Bascilica? I know it isnt time appropriate, but to me this is the best place to ask. 🇨🇭
for context im planning on drawing a battle "painting" and want it to be accurate

[fleet crescent]

if you can get Judith Hook's 1972 book The Sack of Rome, 1527 the 11th chapter is dedicated to the sack itself and the primary sources she uses are probably the best

I think her phd thesis that preceded the book is free here: https://era.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/17528
if you mean the defence of castel sant angelo I think the accounts mainly refer to that (I don't see anything about just St Peters apart from looting and killing)

[fleet crescent]

and alternatively if you want an easy but questionable short read the Medieval Warfare magazine article 2019 Peter Konieczny - "Hell Itself Was a More Beautiful Sight" The 1527 Sack of Rome is good for that

[dim sierra]

Thank you!

[velvet rampart]

were these helmets actually constructed or where they more of just a concept

[storm wolf]

some of them we still have extant examples alive

bottom left helmet

that book is a great source for armor

[fleet crescent]

Thun dlc for halfsword would be

[split bone]

as Boris said there are helmets in the book (this one isnt on that page) that have exact matches so i would wager most of them were constructed or were planned to be

[fleet crescent]

another very similar to the Thun armours but not sure how composed it is since it looks like the arms and cuirass have different decorations. helmet is very thun-esque anyway

[velvet rampart]

i see

[dim sierra]

What would that helmet be called?

Looks like a close helm or armet + a sallet

[velvet rampart]

i think its probably still a close helm but they just decided to switch the visor

but i will say it is one of my favorate close helms visually

[split bone]

pragmatically it's a grand bascinet

[dim sierra]

:O

[split bone]

separate pivot for the visor and the bevor

[dim sierra]

oooh i see it now

thanks!

[storm wolf]

I am getting a pair of arm armor reproduced after this harness!

[fleet crescent]

that is awesome you should definitely post pics of that + that sword you mentioned when you get it all

[cunning grove]

Did mail chausses become rare/outdated during the mid to late 15th century?

[fleet crescent]

there are definitely pants with mail components in the late 15th century
but if you mean entirely then I personally haven't seen that. the Germans definitely have mail shorts (shurz) too
I'm not sure if the first two German ones have metal plates in there but that last spanish one definitely does like a 'jack'

[cunning grove]

Thank you rudiblock

[split bone]

spanish one looks really nice

and that's fifteenth century?

[fleet crescent]

yep dated to late 15th https://www.museunacional.cat/en/colleccio/saint-michael-weighing-souls/juan-de-la-abadia-elder/005082-000

[fleet crescent]

oh yeah there are also these Thun illustrations of course

[cunning grove]

Very nice!

Knight on the right has unique looking cuirass and helmet 😮

[fleet crescent]

Matthias Goll calls that one 'Type III' in his thesis. Kevlar has posted a reproduction based on some fencing manual illustrations before

the helmet is believed to be the one that Sam posted earlier but it has its authenticity has been question. from Chassica Kirchhoff's book on the Thun sketchbooks:

Later in the album, the figure on folio 36r (see fig. 79) also wears an unusual, visored helmet that closely resembles a helmet bearing the mark of Lorenz Helmschmid that now resides in the Philadelphia Museum of Art (fig. 80).The authenticity of the Philadelphia helmet, whose features and silhouette are wholly distinct from other contemporaneous foot tournament helmets, has long been questioned. Its uniqueness, its lack of provenance prior to 1908, and surface differences between its back plate – struck with Helmschmid’s mark and the Stadtpyr of Augsburg – and the other plates all invite suspicion. However, the details of the helmet’s design, including the innovative spring-operated visor lock mounted on its brow and the character of the file marks that punctuate the plates’ forms connect it to other elements firmly attributed to Helmschmid. Further, the veristic representation of a nearly identical helmet in the Thun album, which has been interpreted by some scholars as a copy of an armorer’s drawing of the very object now in Philadelphia, suggests the existence of at least a prototype of such a helmet within the circles of armorers, artists, and wearers whence the album emerged. Though scholars continue to disagree about whether the helmet is an authentic tournament element, a composite, or a forgery, its close relationship to the drawing inthe Thun album demonstrates the immense value of Artist A’s images, which offer some of the only surviving images of Fußkämpfer equipped in this style.

[neon tangle]

https://www.khm.at/kunstwerke/saudegen-373843

[split bone]

dang that's beautiful

[fleet crescent]

I do believe thats for hunting boars

But that would be fun to do

Ye Saudegen
Sau, sow
Degen, sword

[fleet crescent]

I like that KHM uploads all of their old photography even if theyre stingy as hell on keeping their books offline purely for facsimiles

[neon tangle]

various illustrations from the Goliath Fechtbuch, circa 1535-40

[oblique kindle]

im too lazy to type all of this out so im copy pasting form wikipedia:

Knight, Death and the Devil is a large 1513 engraving by the German artist Albrecht Dürer, one of the three Meisterstiche (master prints)[1] completed during a period when he almost ceased to work in paint or woodcuts to focus on engravings.

I did a critique on this engraving last week for a project in class, I found it on Google Arts and Culture. Truly a beautiful piece of art with a ton of symbolism

[astral falcon]

I have a print of it hanged right beside me it's so beautiful

[neon tangle]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YzDNBx5urMo Ye Olde Sport Mode - robinswords

[fleet crescent]

Dragon's Dogma 2 WIP 16th century kits
credits are Lukas Opryszek for the Max harness/David Grotewold for the 'Sigismund,' Mister DJD for most of the remaining assets, and Ridog8 for putting it all into the game

[neon tangle]

https://www.moritzausbuxtehude.de/blog/schnitt-pattern-dy6td-egt7z German summer doublet, circa 1580s - 90s

[fleet crescent]

this gives me Pieter Breughel vibes but I cannot for the life of me find the painting where I swear a soldier is wearing a near identical top

recolouring now completed (by Ridog8 of nexus mods)

some of the inspirations for the designs

[neon tangle]

it personally reminds me a lot of this bruegel painting. of course it isn't near as fancy, but it has a similar silhouette

[neon tangle]

Vittore Carpaccio, Portrait of a Knight - 1510

[storm wolf]

Welp, here goes alot of my savings but its worth it

[dim sierra]

How much? Whatever it cost, it was worth it.

[storm wolf]

Rather not say but know it was alot 🫠

[fleet crescent]

Worth it

[lunar hinge]

who made it?

very nice, u dont see plate voider repros too often

[fleet crescent]

Nor wolfs teeth decoration (or if they go by another name)

[storm wolf]

Radoslaus

[split bone]

@dense oak

[oblique kindle]

Do you model these yourself?

[dense oak]

Oh?

[dense oak]

OOOO- PLAYE VOIDERS!

Who made these? How do they handle?

[split bone]

he said radoslaus made it

[dense oak]

Ooo- I heard that name before, and even archived some of his videos to learn how to make armor

I wonder how well these plate voiders move

[fleet crescent]

nah - they are all pre-existing models or commissions added to Dragon's Dogma 2 by Ridog8 (on Nexus)
he has also colour matched the assets, added physics to them, added the variations in plumage, and a boatload of other little wizardry based on vanilla assets

credits are:
Maximilian armour by Lukas Opryszek
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/KOlL29

'Sigismund' (early Maximilian) armour by David Grotewald
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/NGQxrd

Landsknecht outfits from here (so by A.S. 3Dmodels):
https://www.fab.com/listings/a366dfb6-0955-4eb9-a87e-2dd7579fc2e8
Main sword from here (by MatsakDmytro):
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/melee/albion-munich-medieval-sword-pbr-game-ready
Other weapons from here (TriForge Assets):
https://www.fab.com/listings/c7a393b0-8141-402f-8048-02552ea49ffa

Fluted armet, grotesque helmet, golden fleece pendant, fabric chest pieces, hand targe with floral design, and sleeve edits are by MisterDJD
https://www.artstation.com/misterdjd

Fluted close helmet (with rondel, and yes, they did this: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/27127) based on this King Magnus helmet:
https://www.fab.com/listings/bdd1cca0-4764-4a80-8c3c-5b82b4b35c64
Grotesque helmet based on this scan:
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/helmet-with-grotesque-visor-d1438344826a4ff9b97dd35ccd56f535
Golden fleece pendant based on this scan:
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/schaap-sheep-1650-1850-f6769f1b2b2e4e71ac0889258533f4a8

couple new shots with the Extended character editor mod to increase waist sliders beyond vanilla

[oblique kindle]

That’s really cool!!!!! I fw it so much

[oblique kindle]

Tapered waists 🫶 oml absolutely thug gangster snazzy

[fleet crescent]

have you got a mock up or concept of the whole set these are going to fit into?

[storm wolf]

Not as of yet but heres my current kit with place holder armor pieces

Slowly getting a proper 1500 kit

[dim sierra]

Holy, that is one very nice kit, the waist area just seems a bit messy.

[dense oak]

Holy fuck that kit is amazing

[dense oak]

Actually, how do the plumes feel like? How were the pieces gilded?

[storm wolf]

The plumes make so I can tell where the wind is blowing funny enough and I gilded the pieces with gold leaf and adhesive with a varnish on top

[dense oak]

Oh? How is telling where the wind blows useful? Out of curiosity

[storm wolf]

Not useful at all for actual battlefield reasons its just a funny thing I noticed

[storm wolf]

That is because the brigandine is a bit too short for me but it gives me alot of mobility. I mainly use this kit for Larp so the gap doesnt really matter.

[dim sierra]

Not trying to tell you how to improve your kit by any means, but it looks like you'd be able to add a plackart along with the brigandine.
That would cover the gap and hide the fact that the brigandine is too short.

not sure if a plate plackart can be added to a brigandine that goes beyond the boundries of a chestplate though.

[astral falcon]

get yourself a badass base (epic)

[storm wolf]

I thought about a plackart but its not really 1495 to 1505

and my brigandine is still too short even with a plackart on so I will still need to get another brig and at that point I will just get a proper breastplate

[astral falcon]

An Aventurier Soldier in
Le Sacre, couronnement et entrée de Madame Claude Royne de France, Paris, vers 1517.
Paris, Bibliothèque Nationale Ms fr. 5750, f. 49v

not wearing a brigandine doe

[dense oak]

Methinks that the brigandine looks better with your kit than a cuirass

That dark blue velvet brigandine, even if short, fits DELICIOUSLY with the rest of your kit, I think more so than any cuirass.

The dark blue + light yellow fits so good, I think it would be a shame to get rid of it (except maybe with a blackened cuirass?)

[storm wolf]

blued & gilded armor 👀

[dense oak]

Hmm... I do believe you should keep the brig tho. Blackening other pieces of armor should be easy enough, and if you are up for it why not?

[cunning grove]

I wonder what this sallet look like without the big gorget thingy.

[fleet crescent]

Similar to this i suspect
https://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/original/26.92.4_63664_May2015.jpg

[dim sierra]

I know the edges of armour were often rolled or added on like in this image, but how was the gold or brass applied?

In that image it would look as if the whole plates were golden or brass to begin with, but i assume with rolled edges it would be applied somehow.

[dense oak]

If you mean how the edges are gilded or add latten, they would rivet it to the harness using tiny bars of the same material.

[dim sierra]

So theres always just a layer of fancy metal added on top? I assumed thats how it would be with latten, but i thought rolled edges were differently covered.

[dim sierra]

thanks though!

[dense oak]

With edges and small details, yes. For covering large surfaces, fire gilding is period accurate and damascening can be done

[dim sierra]

Thanks, youve already given enough info but i would also want to ask if you maybe know a video of somebody making armour, where the gilding of edges is included?

[dense oak]

I do not, but I know one of Matthias Gnoll's PDFs has a reproduction made by Matthias Gnoll himself, that shows this

Unfortunatedly, I am away in the academy, so you're going to have to wait a few hours

[dim sierra]

no problem, youre a useful saint.

[storm wolf]

New arm armor received 💪

Mobility in them is amazing Radoslaus made them perfect.

[dim sierra]

that made my brain tingle, amazing!

[dense oak]

LESGOOOO

[cunning grove]

Are there surviving late 15 or early 16 century sallet with flutings?

[dense oak]

Question: If it is not too much trouble to ask for such a video, how does the arm harness open and close?

[storm wolf]

Only the forearm opens up I can slip my arm in and close the forearms without trouble

[dense oak]

Oh, right. I assume the plate voiders is attached to the upper arm piece?

[storm wolf]

Yup all riveted like the original. I can remove the elbow reinforcement for cleaning.

[dim sierra]

Anyone got some cool paintings of a duel with duelling shields? Just like in the image

[oblique kindle]

damn they left you hanging

[dim sierra]

:c

[dim sierra]

Anyone got some imagery or museum pieces of large Velvet Pauldrons? preferably Late 15th century - Very Early 16th century.

[dense oak]

I am not sure if I do, I may have something in my archives, but will take time to access it

I didn't want to leave you hanging, sorry if the reply was kind of... lacking

[dim sierra]

no worries, i already drew the part where i needed the info

[dense oak]

Oh, right, then no need for me to get anything?

[dim sierra]

no need

[dense oak]

Understood

[neon juniper]

really wanna see a velvet covered pauldron though..

[velvet rampart]

would you guys say this is accurate for landsknecht?

[astral falcon]

Not really

It's not really that well fitted, it looks cheap

Like the overall idea sure but the execution not so much

[velvet rampart]

to be fair i found it on a website for 400 euros

that is most likely why

[copper pewter]

This also looks very rushed imo

[cunning grove]

Sorry if this has been asked before, when did the fluted Maximilian armour went out of fashion? Was it around 1540?

[fleet crescent]

in every major museums collection the 1530s is the latest decade that fluted armours are generally dated to (Hermitage has a whole bunch and they put a limit at 1540), if that's anything to go off. so 1540 is probably a good date but I wouldn't be surprised if there were exceptions and tbh I never really search for art on museums past 1520 or 30

[cunning grove]

Thx rudiblock 🙏

[raw apex]

whats that style of decoration called?
hounds teeth comes to mind but im not sure where i got that from

[copper pewter]

not too sure, but it is based off of this

I def dont spend a lot of time on this period

[warped kettle]

1500, France.

Coat of arm logos, sourced through the Oxford library.

These coat of arms are only French, for the record.

don't know if this was ever sent before though

[copper pewter]

1479-1482

(German Latin)

Bern. Burgerbibliothek, Cod. A 45

[fleet crescent]

@astral falcon there's the full thing
it's been released on Dragon's Dogma 2 Nexus in Ridog8's armour pack

[astral falcon]

Thanks gang

[tulip pond]

Dunvegan castle Claymore believed to have been used by the chief of the McLeod clan in the battle of bloody bay 1480-1483

[dim sierra]

forgot to ask, who is the armourer behind this?

[lunar hinge]

Krasouski vadzim

[tulip pond]

We sketch ofa jeddart stave I made with some notes

The jedwart stave also known as the jeddart and Jedburgh stave was an early Scottish polearm of which most notes of it are from the very late 15th century to the 16th century. it was a light polearm used as a regional militia weapon in the Scottish borders, it is believed, by some historians, to have been a direct ancestor to the lochaber axe

Apologies if my writing is hard to read it was originally just one of my personal notes

Fun little note I forgot to do with my depiction almost all intact jeddarts have a crowned S engraved onto the blade

[copper pewter]

Epitaph für Ludwig von Rothenstein (+1482), Katholische Pfarrkirche Sankt Philipp und Jakob, ehem. Kollegiatstiftkirche, Bad Grönenbach (Kreis Unterallgäu), Austria.

I want this kinda beard

1484-1488 adargas

[copper pewter]

Bifurcated gauntlets by Robert Macpherson

[copper pewter]

2 witches by Hieronymus Bosch

Reconstruction of a 1485 Flemish Cuirass

post above is based off of this

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/flemish-armour-817cbcbae1ab44a187918ca67a17a3bc

1505 Turin Sabauda.

[fleet crescent]

crazy, nearly 99% identical to the one in the KHM (supposedly Sanseverion's lol)

[fleet crescent]

DaDG one day 🙏

weird italian armour with diamond pointed rustication around 1500
c.1500 The Archangel Michael with the Dragon [Statens Museum for Kunst]
c.1500 Breastplate and Culet [Met]

[fleet crescent]

1480s Bartolomeo Vivarini - San Michele Arcangelo e Sant'Antonio da Padova [Pinacoteca C. Giaquinto, Bari]
1488 Bartolomeo Vivarini - Saint Michael [Accademia Carrara]
1485 Bartolomeo Vivarini - Saint George [Boston MFA]
1485 Bartolomeo Vivarini - Der Heilige Georg tötet den Drachen [Destroyed 1945]

[lunar hinge]

really cool stop rib on the first and second ones

[fleet crescent]

agreed

[copper pewter]

I really like the first one

[astral falcon]

"Sir please to recording"

[copper pewter]

This

[lunar hinge]

oop

[copper pewter]

Beautiful armor ngl

[lunar hinge]

ye, i love wolf's tooth decorations

[copper pewter]

Can you circle that part? Im not very familiar with the term myself 😅

[lunar hinge]

this part

[dim sierra]

New video from alex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23yYfIMQQbY

[copper pewter]

2 diff sallets

[tulip pond]

what type of sallet is this

[astral falcon]

Commonly called black sallet

[tulip pond]

curiouse name for a not so black helmet

[astral falcon]

"black" refers to the rough finish they would've had

Iicr many were polished during the victorian age too

[copper pewter]

Francesco Pagano, Triptych of Sant’Omobono (c. 1490-92)
Oil on canvas – Naples, Capodimonte Museum

[fleet crescent]

damn that's crazy beautiful

gorgeous

[fleet crescent]

peak gown cut

those two are 1515-18 from an italian altarpiece. found here
https://www.instagram.com/p/DGFgI8oPK7-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

tutta_brescia_addosso

Today is the feast day of the saints Faustino and Giovita, the patron of Brescia. 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐰𝐨 𝐰𝐚𝐫𝐫𝐢𝐨𝐫 𝐬𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐚 𝐜𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐤𝐧𝐨𝐰𝐧 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐢𝐭𝐬 𝐚𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐡𝐚𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐛𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 ...

Instagram

also great pics of another one of those crazy extant rusticated armours
https://www.instagram.com/p/CW76PA-t0hb/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

tutta_brescia_addosso

𝐒𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐞 𝐝𝐢 𝐚𝐫𝐦𝐢 𝐞 𝐚𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐢𝐨𝐥𝐢 di Paolo De Montis

𝐋'𝐚𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐚 𝐝𝐢𝐚𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐚

🇮🇹 Questo straordinario esemplare di corsaletto da piede, conservato al Museo del Bargello di Firenze (inv. M 756), risulta una rielaborazione molto or...

Instagram

[cunning grove]

Maks Izobov crafted another peak armour, it's most likely based on 1480-1490 stuff so im sharing it here

[copper pewter]

I really hope maks izobov is ok with his business doing this for a living. Dude is good at his craft

[copper pewter]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Mwa3wbkGbj8

[ionic iron]

The battle in Schwaderloh on April 11, 1499

[lunar hinge]

whats the dating of the art

[ionic iron]

1513

[lunar hinge]

thx

[ionic iron]

https://www.e-codices.ch/fr/kol/S0023-2/bindingA

Here is the complete manuscript

[wraith oar]

Stunning

[simple tendon]

ayy Roberto's mod

[wraith oar]

Oh lawd it's beautiful

Where's that from

[copper pewter]

https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2/mods/1040

[cunning grove]

Fantastic harness

I like his armet

[dense oak]

Who is the armorer who made this repro? It kinda looks like Max1's sallet

[cunning grove]

When did this type of armet show up in Holy Roman Empire, was it around 1480?

[copper pewter]

iirc 1490-1500

[cunning grove]

I love this type of visor than the more commonly seen one lol

[copper pewter]

main thread

[copper pewter]

altarpiece from Vårdsberg church, province of Östergötland, Sweden, c. 1475-1500

[copper pewter]

"Wooden sculpture made of hardwood and pine.
regional workshop / Mälardalen
around 1500

around 1500. altar piece, something to do with olav

[dim sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSjMtbHBJDQ&pp=ugUEEgJlbg%3D%3D a pretty good video about an important yet niche battle

[cunning grove]

Cant remember where i saved this but im sharing it here because it looks pretty 1480s to me

[fleet crescent]

Siegfried von Schwalbach, died 1497

[copper pewter]

jeus

jesus

[grizzled whale]

I don't usually look up 16th century armor but this one is 🔥

[fleet crescent]

the harnesses they're wearing are nice
one looks like it's based on the wallace collections
https://www.instagram.com/p/DVmGrIuFvaA/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

digladior_cz

Ocel proti oceli.
Harnischfechten – boj ve zbroji, kde nerozhoduje jen síla, ale hlavně struktura, načasování a kontrola v těsné vzdálenosti. ⚔️

Trénink evropských historických bojových umění v plátové zbroji v podání Digladioru.
Harnisch trénujeme každé úterý na Vinohradech.

Na fotkách:
@claryaldringen
@krystof_...

Likes

106

Instagram

[lilac ibex]

https://youtube.com/shorts/aLpMR1sicSc?si=u80RXFp8a6hOHLE0

[tulip pond]

Wtf

I don't know

But this looks suspicious

[late hemlock]

I love this guy

[cunning grove]

are the things on his pauldron gardbrace?

very cool shape

[calm fern]

a sallet from around 1490 modified as a cavalry helmet with a peek at around the early 17th century

[velvet rampart]

incredibly fascinating

[calm fern]

its a nice find

[neon juniper]

This one actually seems more believable than the brimmed bascinet

[astral falcon]

(https://www.robinhalwas.com/004926-la-cavalcata-dell-imperator-carlo-v-nel-suo-ingresso-in-bologna)

althought those could pretty much already be called [early] burgonets but the resemblance with brimmed sallets is pretty obvious

[neon juniper]

is that just a straight up mail hood?

or is that an exaggerated standard

[astral falcon]

mantle

[neon juniper]

ohh

[astral falcon]

Essentially an oversized standard tbh lol

but yeah

[sick iris]

Ad anima

[split bone]

one of my favorite complete harnesses

[sick iris]

I love it, wish there were more russet harnesses

[split bone]

Truth Nuke

[sick iris]

I really like this one aswell

[neon juniper]

At what time do we start seeing peascods

Curious to know

[sick iris]

I love the decorative gilding on this one

[sick iris]

Id assume mid 16th century? But idk im not a pro

[neon juniper]

I suppose

[warped kettle]

This type of helmet is rather interesting

It's design pops up again later in history

And this does seem to be the main inspiration for eventually the Pickelhaub

It's crazy that a configuration to the sallet spirals into this

[lunar hinge]

Saint Michael, Master of Zafra, 1495-1500

[cunning grove]

I love the cuirass's gold decoration