references♥_1450-1470

[next orchid]

Lmfao

[void stream]

So where is this version of the halberd from?

[bright ferry]

possibly german but there are plenty of similar or identical swiss ones from the same time

https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-31067

https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-1282

https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-1283

[unkempt rampart]

Visor on the leg?

Never seen that before

[tiny valve]

https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1916.1559
I think it's Central Europe like gabriel said it's more likely to be german

[terse bronze]

what are you talking about

[void stream]

Oh yes I confused it with the Swiss halberds thanks for correcting me as they both look similar

[unkempt rampart]

His visor is on his left leg

Look

Top of the thigh

It’s attached to his belt

[terse bronze]

Ah that

dude just tied the visor at his belt for the photoshoot ig

[lament wolf]

No!

[lone osprey]

this helmet design from c1446 also looks fairly square in front of the chin

[vocal vale]

this is huge..

do you have more angles

[lone osprey]

unfortunately not only different lighting. maybe Konrad IX flickr, pinterest etc results might though https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Konrad_IX_von_Weinsberg_Schoental_20080725_2.jpg

oooh more context. outside date range
Tomb of Konrad von Weinsberg (died 1448) in the former Schöntal monastery (Hohenlohe district, Baden-Württemberg). The bronze statue was created between 1426 and 1430, i.e. during Konrad's lifetime. (Photo: State Media Center Baden-Württemberg)

was led to believe it was created around death by older article i was reading

[terse bronze]

I believe that's actually him but he looked medusa in the eyes (unfortunate)

[lone osprey]

got gorgoned

[robust tendon]

Art of St george, c. 1490

[terse bronze]

Out of the game timeframe !!! :^)

[robust tendon]

forgor it was 1450-70, thought it was still 80

[tiny valve]

Imagine you see someone in this armor right in the middle of the night

[prisma raven]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/52239070446/

[lone osprey]

old mate's harnisch from that tomb is very similar to this 1455 playing card king's one

[terse bronze]

by Tabor Armoury

[vocal vale]

zamn those are nice

[clever bramble]

This feels like the appropraite place to drop this off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gaxALbP4Nc

[rugged pier]

Seems like the spot for it. The Sallet I've ordered for buhurt, it's on its way!

Made by Wild Armoury

[vocal vale]

purdy cool

[tawny zephyr]

Wild Armoury is really nice, congrats!

[vocal vale]

this channel is for historical references for the game

[weary minnow]

Sorry

[vocal vale]

is ok

[rugged pier]

I intend on getting my whole suit of armor from them! Slowly but surely.

[tawny zephyr]

pretty brave to use such nice pieces for buhurt hahaha

I've been in love with his gothic stuff for years

[rugged pier]

It'll look more badass with battle scars

[terse bronze]

nah

[rugged pier]

EHhh, they're earned

it'll feel more badass and that's what matters

no hit should be enough to really hurt the armor, it might get some dents but its kinda part of the charm

[next orchid]

Maximilian's two field harnesses are beat up to shit with a ton of repairs, and you can hardly even notice it from afar lol

[tawny zephyr]

Maximilian had a little more money than me hahaha

[terse bronze]

interesting Saint George sculpted by Hans Multscher in 1456-1458, currently at the Multscher Museum, in Vipiteno, Northern Italy

[fleet junco]

Why is he green and yallow

[lyric light]

i love him

[next orchid]

bro got no shoulders

[tawny zephyr]

That's an incredibly detailed sculpture, amazing

Form-fitting armour is the best

[lone osprey]

damn that is great

[vocal vale]

thing by eol illustrating how stapled couter reinforcements move in relation to the arm

[terse bronze]

this is me

[tawny zephyr]

Covered cuirasses are amazing

One of my favourite things from Iberian armour and the Pastrana tapestries

[terse bronze]

This one look more based on french art than iberian but yeah

[vocal vale]

yes

regnault de montaubon

[terse bronze]

Montauban

yeah

[vocal vale]

why i oughta..

[tawny zephyr]

Oh totally, it's just that the tapestries always come to mind when I see covered breastplates and gilded armour

Such an aesthetic

[tawny zephyr]

I want one so bad

[vocal vale]

#1287593473217790034

[tawny zephyr]

aw...

[bleak ore]

does anyone know what kind of sallet this is

[lone topaz]

bad channel to ask in but its a kind of eisenhut

[turbid shadow]

i think its just a one piece sallet

[terse bronze]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/26453
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/27122
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/34258

[lone osprey]

thats part of what confuses me about this game a bit

oh well I guess not nevermind

I was going to say if those are c.1480

and it looks like a bunch of other equipment is closer to that time

then how does 1450-1470 make sense

but then there is the give or take 10 years

[lone osprey]

c1460
Hl. Gereon mit Gefolge

[vocal vale]

because certain styles of armor show up pictorally earlier but have later extants

[tawny zephyr]

Like the 1370s sallet!

[noble wagon]

ca 1540s

[robust tendon]

way out of period

game is 1450-1470 iirc

[tawny zephyr]

Do we have surviving period manuscripts for side swords?

I know early examples of finger rings in arming swords date to the late 14th century, but I was thinking if any masters actually have a treatise on it (in the 15th century)

[noble wagon]

i don’t believe this channel is for references for the game specifically, unless i’m wrong

[turbid shadow]

it is

[unkempt rampart]

Check pins, this channel is SPECIFICALLY for stuff that fits the games time period.

[fleet junco]

En passant is now in halfsword

[vocal vale]

#1287593500208005200

[terse bronze]

Due to the pact on behalf of Archduke Sigismund of Tirol, Duke Ludwig of bavaria hired mercenaries in the summer of 1468 in the bavarian woods and upper Pfalz. During the hiring process a musterroll was created. Recorded were among others, 834 Fußknechte (Men-at-arms) and their leaders, including their arms and armor. Alongside this were the names of 223 other Fußknechte, however with unmentioned equipment. Adding to this were also 40 compulsory squires, that functioned as assistants and pavise carriers.

The Trabants (special word for armed servant afaik) were to wear a white (smock?, garment?) with a red hat or cap, according to an order of Duke Ludwig.
It is unknown how far this order was carried out, as it is not specified in historical documents.
A few of our compatriots of our bavarian fraction decided to uphold this order of the duke and attempted to adequately translate this

(pictures : Kurfürstlich Sächsische Kriegsknechte 1475)

[tawny zephyr]

Those fringed, tightly fitted hoods are so cool

[unkempt rampart]

Thought that guy had a crossbow axe hybrid for a sec

[terse bronze]

guh

[unkempt rampart]

Middle guy second picture

[terse bronze]

guh

[noble wagon]

apologies, forgot to check pins

[fleet junco]

Any chance of splint

[vocal vale]

no

[vocal vale]

my god there's a lot to unpack there

Never cook again.

[fleet junco]

My pet snail made that armor....

[haughty creek]

Why is that breastplate so flat

Where are the curves

[vocal vale]

it also goes down way farther than it should, dude's belt is sagging heavy, his greaves are chunky and malformed

[haughty creek]

I don’t think those shoes are historically accurate

[vocal vale]

lol

[haughty creek]

I might be wrong, there could have been a very adventurous sailor who acquired enough rubber for a shoe sole in 1480

[robust tendon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/266582633503260693/1129462786028748900/finest-indian-armour.gif

[upper lintel]

What's wrong with this one?

[haughty creek]

Everything

I didn’t know it could get this bad

[upper lintel]

Seems fine to me

Especially the jeans

[robust tendon]

nautical mart is quite the armor producer

the very finest

[tawny zephyr]

That's why you only buy from a reputable seller, like Armstreet!

[vocal vale]

pretty please can we get sallet visored armets it's dated 1449 🙏🙏

[turbid shadow]

one year earlier, it can sneak in

[vocal vale]

i really hope when the full game comes that you can pretty much just add whatever visor you want to whatever helmet

aside from stuff that requires a very specific shape to really "work"

[turbid shadow]

i honestly believe the system is gonna be modular

frank said on the faq, that they’re planning to allow you to change every detail of such piece so take that from what you will

[vocal vale]

https://tenor.com/view/язык-соник-прикол-gif-299222203133912346

[tawny zephyr]

I was already surprised at the level of detail on armour joints and articulations, and now you drop me this? Now I'm even more hyped

[turbid shadow]

yeah HS is gonna be something special

[robust tendon]

i'd say it already is ;d

[terse bronze]

tbh there's even some examples from the 60s and 70s !!

[vocal vale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1215129823115087985/1292403008080183338/speed.gif

[turbid shadow]

to me it is absolutely

i thought it was special even in the itch io times

[stuck sigil]

Curseburg armor, seal broken in 1780

[stuck sigil]

crossbow war pick combo

[white fulcrum]

oh these are sex

[ancient pivot]

You have any good refs?

[terse bronze]

Flanders, 1480s

[vocal vale]

HEK YEAH !!

[robust tendon]

idk doesn’t look very “sallet” y to me

[vocal vale]

looks a little more typical to an armet but still rad

[robust tendon]

Just looks like a small/shorter armet visor

[terse bronze]

just take it

[ancient pivot]

Weird looking pauldrons

[vocal vale]

St. Trinity Altar, Poland, 1467

[whole anchor]

did they have any other stances for weapons that arent swords

maybe like a sickle stance

[unkempt rampart]

Sickles?

[unkempt rampart]

Sickles are a farming tool

I mean if you can find a historical source regarding sickles being used in combat go ahead but I really doubt it

[whole anchor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1W0gYTt_0&t=151s i was watching this and the dude was using a sickle stance from a 16th century manuscript

i though it was cool and wondered if there were any other weapon stances

[unkempt rampart]

16th century is too late for the game

I mean if you want to see other stances just go read the manuals from the time

[whole anchor]

ik i was just curious if throughout the medieval there were any more like it

besides i wasnt saying hey lets add this in the game i wuz just asking abt it in general

[lone osprey]

Love the war hat combined with that harness
and all the variations on war hat and different garments and gauntlets
awesome designs

[vocal vale]

#1287593500208005200

[lofty anchor]

Reinherr Schenk, a 2,25m (7ft4in) Burghauptmann in the Castle Hochosterwitz. When under attack, he would run to the castles gate and tell the enemies, that he was one of the smallest and weakest knights in the castle.

[unkempt rampart]

WAY out of the time period of the game

[lofty anchor]

i dont even know when the game takes place? Where does it say hen?

[unkempt rampart]

Check pins

[unkempt rampart]

Game takes place between 1450-1470

[lofty anchor]

where

[unkempt rampart]

Southern Germany

[lofty anchor]

ah nice...well location doesnt fit neither....but I mean.....close...

[unkempt rampart]

There’s a thread for 1470-1600 discussion I think

[lofty anchor]

I mean the Castle Hochosterwitz was built in the 800-900 and was used during that period

I mean yeah schenk died in like 1340 or so....that doesnt fit but the guys story lives on lol

[lone osprey]

1465
Hans Pleydenwurff - Auferstehung Christi

[vocal vale]

why is there a tiny woman

[lone osprey]

things were different back then

[vocal vale]

-Big.McLargeHuge

[robust tendon]

sleepy

[bright token]

https://manuscriptminiatures.com/4560/11251

1450 sallets

here's the painting in case you guys are too busy to click the link

[tawny zephyr]

Have you never seen a Mecha anime?

[void stream]

appearance of some armor in Hans Pleydenwurff's artwork

[robust tendon]

the coolest helmet of all time

[fleet junco]

Seems legit, adding it into halfsword. Expect this in 15 days

[terse bronze]

Nah it's out of the timeframe

[orchid harness]

Does it have to be historic? I was gonna recommend griffith’s armor from beserk lmaoo

[robust tendon]

it does

[short ice]

I'll kill you with hammers

no reason in particular though

[orchid harness]

:)

[tawny zephyr]

There are some pretty accurate armours in the manga, though. Laban's armour comes to mind

(that armour is from 1479, just shy of the 10 year tolerance!)

[terse bronze]

moar

[tawny zephyr]

Hell yeah gothic armour

[tawny zephyr]

It's complete fantasy, so it's not really the game's style, but out of fantasy armours it's one of the most practical ones

[robust tendon]

balljerk armor ranges from ugly as sin to kind of okay

bazuo’s armor comes to mind when i think of the truly god-awful ones

[tawny zephyr]

I don't consider this and the above as just "kind of okay". It's a shame all the pretty armours are relegated to side-characters though

[unkempt rampart]

Mods string this guy up over a pit of sharks

[orchid harness]

:(

[unkempt rampart]

There will be NO berserk tolerated

[lone osprey]

you mean the rightmost? that's 1485

[tawny zephyr]

Is it?

OH

my bad, that's not Maximilian's, that's from Sigismund, you're right

[lone osprey]

the one on the left here has recently been dated more precisely 1480 though

[lone osprey]

it is Maximilian's - historians have determined it would make no sense for Sigismund to order and own the armor at his age at that point

[terse bronze]

what do you mean recently

thought it was pretty accepted already

[lone osprey]

well the KHM which actually owns the piece has only recently actually taken onboard the year 1480 for their labelling so

relatively recently, yeah

now stating that the bevor is an 1866 repro too

[tawny zephyr]

Wait, so we have two very similar harnesses then?

I mean, for the same person

[lone osprey]

yeah
I mean if you saw the documents for his orders, it's not too surprising

[terse bronze]

I thought this one, as per what KHM said, was a gift from maximilian to sigismund

[lone osprey]

gogl transl

The age of Maximilian at the time suggests that the armor was made for him. A figure-hugging suit of armor like the one here was made for a young, slim man - Maximilian was about 25 years old at the time, Sigmund just under 60. There is no evidence of any commission from Lorenz Helmschmid for Sigmund, while Maximilian had this armorer tied to him for years with a large number of commissions from around 1480. In 1491 Maximilian even appointed Lorenz as his court armorer.

[tawny zephyr]

I'm at work right now, could you point me a link or something related to those documents?

[terse bronze]

That isn't surprising considering the person, many nobles (especially such as Dukes or Kings) would have multiple harnesses

[lone osprey]

basically search here for 'krebs' and you'll find corresponding documents transcribed
obviously check the dates above them lol
https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/jbksak
updated link just now btw lol accidentally had just the 1883 one
you want to full text search the whole general, the Urkunden are spread throughout
kuriss probably works too as a key word

[tawny zephyr]

Thanks! Will do that as soon as I can

the 1480 one is my favourite harness, aesthetically, it'd be a crime not to learn more about it

[lone osprey]

according to the last knight catalogue the corresponding receipt is in another set of archives in france (not online) but they took most of the information from it and put it in anyway

I would take it all with a grain of salt though.
I think this painting (which they use as supporting evidence) which is a copy of an original anyway has been passed around as being sometimes considered to depict the c.1485 armour, and sometimes to depict the before 1480 armour
but there are inconsistencies that some scholars brush off, e.g. in her recent book Chassica Kirchhoff brushes off the additional rivet showing three lames (or whatever you want to call them) to the breastplate as being a creative liberty by the artist - but at least two other similar gothic breastplates attributed to maximilian's possession actually have three lames/rivets poking out. and the leg armour is hard to identify whether it is one or the other. it actually also depicts a totally distinct pair of gauntlets than those paired with either the 1480 or 1485 suits than the gauntlets depicted in the painting copy (which are either Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer, A 58a or a virtually identical pair), unless one is again willing to brush things aside as 'creative liberties'.

I think for all that is precisely known, it might be neither, it might be parts of one, it's hard to tell.

1485 as a date for the other makes sense for a number of reasons including the accession to king of the romans in 1486

[vocal vale]

lmao

[orchid harness]

King Henry the 8th’s armor

[unkempt rampart]

Too late for the games time period

[orchid harness]

Ehhh true

[robust tendon]

1450-1470 is the game timeframe

[terse bronze]

we need it to be in the channel's description

so it appears here

[terse bronze]

(still not convinced about the whole brigandine + placard thing but looks fire nonetheless)

[fleet junco]

Looks like armor

[sullen charm]

please god no

[tight anvil]

1450-70 is just past the Hussite Wars, damn

Give me wagonberg!!

(Hussite Wars were 1419-1434)

[unkempt rampart]

Oh my god that’s so good looking

[terse bronze]

wagons weren't only used my the hussites X-D

[tight anvil]

Yeah I'm aware but they were the ones who used it most effectively

[terse bronze]

meh

they're the ones pop culture remember

[vocal vale]

@clever bramble

[vocal vale]

#references♥_1450-1470

i guess that works

[turbid brook]

https://tenor.com/view/open-eyes-eye-drops-forced-open-binge-watch-clock-work-orange-gif-11233812

[unkempt rampart]

It works

[terse bronze]

that is not what I meant but works i guess

[vocal vale]

[lament wolf]

We need flying goats

And lions

[terse bronze]

Can you put me mod for a split second

a femtosecond even

[vocal vale]

mcwonder is the only one with the power to change the channel description, or another mod changed the channel name to be this way

i know how to do it i just cant lol

[terse bronze]

ok

[gentle loom]

what in tarnation are those shoes

[lone osprey]

sabatons imitating Poulaines or Schnabelschuhen
specialized kicking devices designed to gouge eyes out

[lone osprey]

is that reynard or somethin else

[robust tendon]

there’s no real way of knowing what medieval artists were trying to depict tbh

other than conjecture and what seems likely

I’d say it’s a reasonable interpretation

[vocal vale]

regnault?

[robust tendon]

regnault de montebaun (idk if that’s the correct spelling)

doesn’t renard mean fox..

[lone osprey]

Ye that guy

He goes by different but similar names in french german italian

I love Die Vier Aymonskinder

[terse bronze]

Regnault de Montauban (Renaud in modern french)

[terse bronze]

That's funny cuz in old french fox was "goupil" but the "Roman de Reynard" where the main character was a fox named Reynard was so popular people started saying reynard instead of goupil

Up to today we still Say renard

[silver heart]

kriegsmesser dated to the 15th century, unsure of the actual year

[robust tendon]

Closer than i thought i’d be

[robust tendon]

super interesting, never heard about this

[red jewel]

Out of curiosity is this a showcase or a shop?

[terse bronze]

Maker on Facebook having a stand at some kind of event

https://www.facebook.com/ArmourServices

[red jewel]

Thank you!

[orchid harness]

can we go older than 1450 or no

[red jewel]

there's a thread for that

[orchid harness]

okkkkkk

[terse bronze]

max 1480

since it's 1450-1470 with a 10years wiggle room

[orchid harness]

oh alright

dude im looking and apparently there were cannons on that time lmaoo

though tbh it’s useless because I can’t imagine anyone actively trying to use them

[terse bronze]

well yes

[terse bronze]

ingame? yeah that's be weird to have cannons and guns in a tourney setting lol

[orchid harness]

I made a suggestion that would use the idea of cannons and stuff

[silver ravine]

yes, they also had guns

[terse bronze]

for quite a bit aswell

[silver ravine]

mostly the chinese for awhile though

[orchid harness]

war mode to basically, get in fortifications and shit using the cannons it would be cool lmaoo

For when the game is finished though

if that’s even something possible to do

[terse bronze]

Not that much awhile lol, I meant Europeans had gunpowder for something like 80years or so

[orchid harness]

guns seem boring

[silver ravine]

oh really? suppose they used it as medicine or something?

[terse bronze]

but in the 15thc it was definitely the century of perfecting ect

[terse bronze]

No artillery aswell

big bombard shit like that

[silver ravine]

ASWELL?? i knew it

[terse bronze]

uh

idk why i said aswell

that's late 14thc, early 15thc iicr

France especially did very good use of artillery and guns during the 15thc, hence awesome battles like Castillon

[silver ravine]

thats so comically large compared to their just a size of your arm

[earnest tiger]

Where da jojo reference

[unkempt rampart]

Mods have this man shot

[dull plank]

Detailed axes.

[lone topaz]

i must be delirious or am i seeing fortnite skins in here bro

[dull plank]

ccp got rid of it

[vocal vale]

correct

[potent tangle]

☻

[dull plank]

1984

[vocal vale]

doesnt fit the channel

[dull plank]

big sword wants to silence the truth

[vocal vale]

lmao

[vast birch]

kcd 2 vibes

[vocal vale]

im pretty sure kcd 2 has "real life" vibes

[unkempt rampart]

The armor we’ve seen so far from KCD 2 is immaculate

[robust tendon]

ehhh...maybe subjectively, historically it's better but still not good

[lone osprey]

stylistically it looks improved too IMO
I hate the way the characters look in KCD1 it looks so artificial and stiff and soulless

isnt it fairly accurate of quite early 15th century central european kit?

[vocal vale]

stuff is kind of misshapen and out of time frame

it's very good for game standards but a good deal of it would get laughed at in a reenaction event

also they're not great at understanding function of aventails

[lone osprey]

right, that sounds fair

[vocal vale]

missing the stuff that actually... holds. . .. the aventail

[unkempt rampart]

Not historically accurate

Doesn’t fit the games time frame

Also

<@&1080390104562016306>

[short ice]

Ah ty

[tepid edge]

lmao

I guess you even had to change the channel name to hope people get the point

[whole anchor]

Maybe on some of the lower tier peasant guys they can be wearing pilgrim badges
These were used a lot in the 14th and 15th century across Europe

I don’t know why ones riding a dick

[vocal vale]

look closer at all of them

half of them are vagina or penis imagery

[whole anchor]

holy fuckig shit youre right

oh man

oh man oh god

oh man

[terse bronze]

why "lower tier peasants"

everyone was proudly displaying such badges!

well, not in armor but

yknow

[whole anchor]

ye mainly saying cuz i was unsure whether opr not they wore it on armour or not

[terse bronze]

mr krabs

[whole anchor]

so maybe up 2 like t7

[vocal vale]

True

[vocal vale]

love this guy

[misty sage]

peanits🔥

[terse bronze]

he's my fav..

[lone osprey]

spaniards always have good taste

[upper lintel]

...

[lone osprey]

yeah I was gonna mention that but i couldnt see any screenshots close enough and wasnt sure if i was mistaken lol

how do you overlook that lol

[stoic heron]

MORDECAI

kinda

[vocal vale]

what

[vocal vale]

[fringe rock]

Something about the cavalry man's (Caballero) shield being so obviously of Arabic design makes me excited for more Spanish arms, due to the mixture of influences in the culture at the time

[vast birch]

I felt quite hungry

[prisma raven]

North African and Iberian, not really Arabic

[unkempt rampart]

Out of the games time period

[terse bronze]

thank God adargas are pretty timeless

[still cedar]

Rondela was before the 16th century

[unkempt rampart]

Top left corner

[misty sage]

both of you are right

[eager robin]

King cum delivery my beloved

[still cedar]

Yeah I wasn’t talking about the picture

[tawny zephyr]

A little late, but I read somewhere that was due to build constraints, it's also why the padded pellerines are separate from the helmets (while they're actually supposed to represent the suspension and lining)

Not perfect, but yeah, it's decent enough

[undone barn]

Uh wrong chan

[glass quail]

Hello gentlemen, how about adding such a weapon as a Slander ?

[glass quail]

or here's another interesting performance

[robust tendon]

the champs:

[lone osprey]

wish there were more like this tbh as in I wish more british illustrated chronicles were like the beauchamp chronicle

[verbal bramble]

Anyone got any references of fullered quillon dagger references from the second half of the 15th century like the ones that appear in the game demo? (which I assume are around that time period) I tried to find 15th century quillon daggers with a fuller, but I couldn't find any, at most I could find either 15th century quillon daggers without a fuller, or 14th century quillon daggers with a fuller.

[snow maple]

Hot take - it'd be incredibly funny to have a secret final boss who is literally just a guy with a musket.

[terse bronze]

that is, in fact, not a musket

[unkempt rampart]

Don’t you know? Anything before WW2 was a musket

I’ve seen people call mosins muskets and it hurts me

[bitter pewter]

It would be funny. Even Funnier if there is a game mode where everyone shoots at each other with fire lances

[robust tendon]

yup, handgonne, and it’s not a great reference

try not to use weird drawings from the 19th century challenge (impossible)

[jade vigil]

I need garishly colored landshnecht with poofy arms and pantaloons

[unkempt rampart]

Not happening

[jade vigil]

You fear the bulbous codpiece clearly

Seriously tho it was such an important piece of garb it made it's way into civilian men's clothing and then went full circle back to later armor

[pastel badger]

good god imagine getting shoulder checked

[terse bronze]

GAME IS SET IN 1450-1470

[terse bronze]

codpieces memes are so overused and stopped being funny in 1690

[terse bronze]

It's the opposite

codpieces went from clothing to armor

like the puff and slashes

but anyway these aren't fitting for the game's timeframe 🌠

[fleet junco]

Adding this, dw about kevlar

[terse bronze]

there is no pipebomb in your mailbox you can open it safely

[fleet junco]

Shoutout kevlar for the warning

Ill not open it today

[verbal bramble]

Ooo- Nice harness. Is that a messer or some kind of falchion?

[fleet junco]

Messer

Hunting sword

[verbal bramble]

Ah, I see. Is this harness yours?

[vocal vale]

no

[verbal bramble]

Oh, sorry for assuming

[vocal vale]

‘salright

channel is just for posting stuff that would fit in-game so the devs have more references for equipment combinations and styles

[verbal bramble]

Oh, makes sense

[fleet junco]

This is my harness

[cobalt rock]

papa want flails

[upper lintel]

Not time accurate

[vocal vale]

i think there are a couple

[midnight epoch]

While muskets were not a thing in this time period AND I don't think any firearms should be in the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8drmKDUwBvU

The Handgonne WAS a real medieval firearm that existed before the time period of the game is set, even

"The earliest reliable evidence of cannons in Europe appeared in 1326 in a register of the municipality of Florence[18] and evidence of their production can be dated as early as 1327"
-Ágoston, Gábor (2005), Guns for the Sultan: Military Power and the Weapons Industry in the Ottoman Empire, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 978-0-521-84313-3

"By 1338 hand cannons were in widespread use in France."

[tight anvil]

Give me pištala or give me death!

[next orchid]

woe to those who doth proclaim "handgonne", for such a term is evil

incredibly silly archaism i wish it would die 🙏

[sullen charm]

gon

[lone osprey]

is there a more precise term for thos ethings?

the word handgon appears in authentic inventories ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I do see this

🤔

[next orchid]

handgonne is an archaic spelling. it just means handgun. and the spelling survives into the 16th c., and applies to all handheld firearms (ie, handguns)

[lone osprey]

well using archaic spelling obviously helps create differentiation from...handguns

or separating it like hand gun

[next orchid]

its an incredibly dumb thing, because as said, the spelling literally applied to harquebuses and muskets.

just call it a hand cannon if you need something modern

and the spelling itself lived alongside "handgunne" (as both were pronounced the same). no one would use "handgunne" to denote a specific type of firearm because its literally just handgun, despite "handgonne" also being literally just handgun

[lament wolf]

This message just gave me an unreasonable urge to play Total War

[next orchid]

thats another thing, its a short u, so its not pronounced as "gone", but like "gün" ("handgoon" is another spelling form)

[lament wolf]

Anyone else here got the Attila mod 1212
AD?

[next orchid]

yeah

great mod

[lament wolf]

I’m thinking about playing it right now.

[lone osprey]

maybe. sounds kind of pedantic to me. in some instances there is justification to use archaic spelling even if the precise spelling of that archaically spelled was altered in other contexts.

[lament wolf]

I suck at strategy games though tbh

[lone osprey]

like it's just a word and not like it's a stereotype

[next orchid]

its not pedantic because its a REAL historical term. when people will read the said historical term, they will think of a specific firearm, when it is not a specific firearm (outside of it being handheld)

and this is not hypothetical because it has happened to me more than once

just use "handcannon"

its modern, and it gets the point across since its a tube u fire by hand

[lament wolf]

I think it’s one of those things where people just do it because it’s whimsical

Like shoppe

[next orchid]

yes

[lone osprey]

yeah

I wouldn't sweat it unless it was actually being misused in an academic context lol...

[next orchid]

it sounds cool, and theyre both mispronouncing it and applying it wrong.

[next orchid]

it is

[lament wolf]

Probably

But things carry different meanings and pronunciations with time

[lone osprey]

I guess the academic world is awaiting your correction then 🫡

[lament wolf]

Even if it is historically wrong

[next orchid]

yes but this was an artificial changing of meaning and the mispronunciation came from a misunderstanding hundreds of years later

[lament wolf]

True

[next orchid]

ie, its not naturally changing meaning and pronunciation

[lament wolf]

I think a lot of things are like that though

[next orchid]

its just dumb academics being dumb -> populars adopt it -> academics use it because they were populars

[lament wolf]

Yes

[next orchid]

if u NEED a term for academia, or simply short hand, "hand cannon" is not a historical term (or if it was, it wasnt popular, because ive never seen it) and thus it will limit misinterpretations

handgonne is also just dumb af. imagine if people went around saying "launce" or "spere" or "swerde"

[next orchid]

yes it was commonly done by victorians. thus "chainmail"

[lone osprey]

Robert Holmes 'MA in Ancient and Medieval History and a BA in archaeology' writes:

"The hand cannon was constructed in exactly the same manner [as the handgonne], though it was usually built to a larger scale than a socket-handgonne, and instead of a socket it was fitted into a groove on the pole, where it was held in place with one or more metal bands." in [2015] Medieval Europe’s first firearms: Handgonnes & hand cannons, c. 1338-1475

sounds like a pretty justified technical distinction to me

is there a good refutation?

[next orchid]

an invented technical distinction, since its blatantly wrong

they the ones with bands werent "usually built to a larger scale"

extremely ridiculous

not a singular citation in that paper either. im unreasonably mad now, why would u post something like that

and why tf would there need to be two terms for "handcannon" and "handgonne" (this term only applying to socketed ones), if "socketed" is already there

[lone osprey]

all valid points

[lone osprey]

"why would u post something like that" so I can get to the bottom of why the term is in use at all!!!

[next orchid]

the term is in use because academics are fucking dumb!

and especially weapon history is understudied

[lone osprey]

that guy appears to write almost entirely ancient history articles too

[next orchid]

the publisher is mostly pop-history

[lone osprey]

medieval warfare has some pretty good articles tbf

[next orchid]

meh, ive never seen one

one that was good i mean

[lone osprey]

I enjoyed these
they're pop-his for sure though

[next orchid]

forming the burgundian lance was quite bad

the idea that the lance became a tactical unit is just wrong

also iirc it never mentions its french root, as it was clearly being based on the french ordinance companies

[lone osprey]

did it really assert that it was a tactical unit and not like administrative or whatever it was in practice

[next orchid]

yes

it also has early 16th c. armor pics, when most of the article is about the companies under charles

i think it had something funny, like calling it gothic armor lol

the main sin though is the lack of citations imma be fr

or not citations, but rather, everything is unsourced

so it just says shit

[lone osprey]

yeah but thats like a pop writing staple. can't interrupt the reading experience now!!

true true

I need to be more critical

[next orchid]

tbh its hard to be critical of things you dont know, especially when the the article about the things u dont know doesnt have any sources, so you cant be critical of the interpretations

(and this is major, since the more u read the more u realize just how bad milhist academia is at interpretations)

[magic geyser]

a flail of 3 kinds could make it in
1 farming tool (both hafts full length)
war flail (short weighted head)
short flail (chain rather than pivot) (i seen a bike chain looking flail chain that would be time appropriate)

not sure on war flails but the farming tools for sure

[magic geyser]

what about one of those goofy pollaxe swords

2 exist (none were in germany)
so accurate to give everyone one of these eyeswores 🤑

[fleet junco]

Tourney sword

[terse bronze]

luv' pollaxe

[jade vigil]

Oh you love poleaxes?
Name every o... oh nvm

[terse bronze]

oc meme ready to be sent a any given time

[fleet junco]

What does poll mean

[terse bronze]

i think head?

or something like that

[lone osprey]

this visor type is necessary

I need it

[potent tangle]

The original fourteenth century meaning of poll was "hair on the head" or just "head." This gradually evolved into "person," and the idea of "counting heads." "Poll." Vocabulary.com
From Ancient Greek πολλοί (polloí, “the many, the masses”), as in hoi polloi. en.wiktionary.org

[vocal vale]

cuz they killed cattle with it

headaxe

I Think™️ Do Not Use Me As A Source™️ Hearsay™️

[silver heart]

i never understood how some of these were considered pollaxes

[terse bronze]

the term "axe" was pretty polysemic in the 15thc tbh, even in french for instance. + they would have nearly identical fencing techniques if you will, so they're technically all the same weapon just with different configuration

[silver heart]

yeah that’s what always fucked me up about because i’d get so caught on the “axe” part of things even tho some of the heads don’t exactly match up with your traditional axe head

[terse bronze]

I mean if you want to be extra specific you can always be, no one in their right mind will correct you for precising something that you'd want to be precise

i generally say pollaxe for the weapon but if I wanna be more precise i'll describe the head

"pollaxe with a beak and an axe head" for instance

[silver heart]

i’ve found myself being a stickler often doing this even tho people back then certainly weren’t as the language and terminology was simplified

[terse bronze]

Sometimes you have instances of the entire weapon being boiled down to one feature

Like in french, sometimes a pollaxe that has a beak would be called bec de faucon

but in general it was still called hache (axe)

[terse bronze]

true

[vocal vale]

@silver heart goes into good depth

[silver heart]

much appreciated

[bright token]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/51146683821 would love to see this armour in game lol

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/23170275221/in/album-72157602380085948

[robust tendon]

true

those couters are excellent

[fleet junco]

Ug

[robust tendon]

Sending fusion bombs to your house

[fleet junco]

o my lord

[tight anvil]

Give Willie a ☆SNATCHED WAIST☆

[terse bronze]

😐

[fleet junco]

The kasten bruster

[sullen charm]

Viking and Crusader armor would be so great

[terse bronze]

can a mod prevent trolling in this channel please

[fleet junco]

Dont 1948 references

[void stream]

what is thiss armorrr 😭😭😭😭

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/836065169129603104/1297025672233095210/uncaption.gif

[unkempt rampart]

Ew

[opaque swallow]

the top right one and the top left one have specific names, i remember the top right one's name is bec de corbin ( in french ), the top left one i dont remember

[terse bronze]

they are all called pollaxe

bec de corbin is a rare name given to the axes having a beak (both with axe and hammer heads)

bec de faucon was more prevalent anyway

[sullen charm]

?

[terse bronze]

top left is commonly called "lucerne" but lucerne is a city in Switzerland, they are just pollaxes made in lucerne

[opaque swallow]

tough battle, i don't think the viking would lose but i don't think the crusader would win

[unkempt rampart]

Dude that armor looks terrible

[sullen charm]

It’s my opinion I know that the crusader can be controversial but it looks good

[opaque swallow]

oooohh alright

[terse bronze]

It's terrible

and not fitting for the game

[unkempt rampart]

Compared to the real, historical stuff it looks abysmal

[sullen charm]

Why ? It’s a medieval game

Vikings are a bit before but still like different styles

[unkempt rampart]

It’s set in 1450-1470

[opaque swallow]

yeah but it's supposed to take place in 1450-1470

[sullen charm]

Well yeah that’s why I mentioned a bit before

[terse bronze]

Even if the game accepted all period both the images are still absolute dogshit

[unkempt rampart]

Yeah

[sullen charm]

If it’s about that then no

[sullen charm]

No

[terse bronze]

yes

[unkempt rampart]

Why the fuck does a crusader have plate ANYTHING on it?

[sullen charm]

Only the images ? I was using a sample

[terse bronze]

Both images are beyond terrible references and do not portray what a viking or a crusader would have worn, ever

[sullen charm]

Relax dude I didn’t want to do this to anyone why you’re so toxic

[terse bronze]

nothing toxic in calling images dogshit

relax

no one is out there to get you

[unkempt rampart]

I am

[sullen charm]

Why are you like this

[unkempt rampart]

Because

This is a channel for real, historical references

[sullen charm]

I know

[unkempt rampart]

You posted the most inaccurate, anachronistic shit possible

[sullen charm]

Alright the crusader is a bit strong wrong but the Viking is slightly accurate just late

[terse bronze]

And again, even if the game was set in the period those images are trying to depict, they're beyond trash

[sullen charm]

Earlier Vikings weren’t so covered

[terse bronze]

Saying that and doing the emphasis on how bad they are also helps you understand what's real and not

[unkempt rampart]

No

Not at all

[plush timber]

^

[sullen charm]

Yes it is

[unkempt rampart]

Not even CLOSE to being accurate

[terse bronze]

it's complete fantasy

[unkempt rampart]

That’s some fucking Netflix shit

[terse bronze]

it's netflix tier viking

[sullen charm]

If you have nothing smart to say just shut up

[terse bronze]

Now who's toxic

[unkempt rampart]

I am saying things that are smart

You aren’t

[sullen charm]

I’m defending myself

[terse bronze]

no one is attacking you dummass

[sullen charm]

Bc you couldn’t tell something nicely but had to act like you just got abused

[unkempt rampart]

Just concede you are wrong

[terse bronze]

we're attacking the images cuz they suck

[sullen charm]

I don’t care about the images

[terse bronze]

we do

[unkempt rampart]

^

[sullen charm]

I just could’ve said Viking or crusader

[unkempt rampart]

It would still be stupid but less stupid

[sullen charm]

No

[terse bronze]

Ok then you already had your response, these are not matching the game setting

[sullen charm]

You are trolling me

[terse bronze]

now we're discussing the images

[unkempt rampart]

But the fact you posted THAT at shit is what makes it bad

[sullen charm]

I don’t need this analysing

[unkempt rampart]

This is literally the channel for it

Wdym

[plush timber]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[sullen charm]

For analysing by images ?

[plush timber]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[terse bronze]

Well tbh if you think those images aren't that bad, you defo need it

[sullen charm]

My*

[unkempt rampart]

For analyzing images of armor and historical stuff

You brought armor

We analyzed it and found it incredibly bad

Like seriously

[sullen charm]

Okay show me a realistic

[unkempt rampart]

Armstreet?

[terse bronze]

realistic what

[unkempt rampart]

Are you even trying?

But yeah no which one crusader or Viking

We can find em

[sullen charm]

I don’t need deep explanation stop attacking me

Do you want a category

[unkempt rampart]

This is literally the channel for deep explanation

[plush timber]

again brother
you are in the channel for deep explanation

what do you mean

[unkempt rampart]

Yeah go for it

[plush timber]

[sullen charm]

Okay crusaders from the crusade in holy land or Israel and Vikings from either Nordic or Baltic region nothing more

[terse bronze]

Do you want me to show you a good crusader reenactment kit? What period? What culture? Templar or random european man-at-arms

[sullen charm]

I was just trying to be nice

[sullen charm]

Templar

[terse bronze]

Ok

[sullen charm]

I just selected random photo

[terse bronze]

first half of the 13th century

[sullen charm]

Well that’s greater

[plush timber]

beautiful

[unkempt rampart]

Good kit

[sullen charm]

And what about the Vikings

I was interested in that

[terse bronze]

lemme find the refs

[sullen charm]

Is this accurate or not

Doesn’t match your image tho

[terse bronze]

It's meh

general idea is ok but details aren't

[terse bronze]

doesn't necessarily have too, there wasn't uniformity like we think off today. (even tho templars did have some sort of dresscode)

[sullen charm]

I Like history and I know it but I haven’t seen accurate armor ig

[sullen charm]

But what source do I use for accurate information

I see paintings on google of crusaders

[terse bronze]

Try to find their translated code

[sullen charm]

What’s that

[terse bronze]

they wrote a bunch of shit about how a templar shall not have any decor on him (like gold spurs ect) that he shall not wear extravagant colors and shall have a red cross over his heart ect

[sullen charm]

Here is armour where Red Cross is over the heart

Is this accurate then

[terse bronze]

no

[terse bronze]

The Temple Rule, or rules of the ordre of the temple, a text with a set of do and don't that members of the temple "templars" shall follow

[sullen charm]

Why is nothing accurate

[terse bronze]

it's in french but it's well known so you should be able to find a translation

Also for a 900s viking

[unkempt rampart]

That helmet is one of the most garish perversions of armor I’ve ever seen

[sullen charm]

Idc

[sullen charm]

So this is what region

Like Nordic or Baltic or more specific

[terse bronze]

let's say they tried for a 1250 look, the gauntlets he's wearing are based on 1480s german mittens

[terse bronze]

Norway

Gjermundbu helmet is from norway

So this would be a Norwegian chieftain or whatever they're called

[sullen charm]

Then they use everything they have, they have lost or not found the original ones

So yeah

I get it

[terse bronze]

you will not display originals like that

[unkempt rampart]

Yeah and that’s not making any intention to be accurate

[terse bronze]

no one in their right mind would display a nasal helmet next to late gothic gauntlets for instance

[unkempt rampart]

That’s a display piece you buy off of Amazon

[terse bronze]

makes no sense

[sullen charm]

ok

You sent a message of it displayed in a similar way

[terse bronze]

because it's a reenactment kit

based on extensive research

to build the most accurate kit possible

the one you posted is just random display to attract tourists

[sullen charm]

Idk where to find accurate

What’s the source

[terse bronze]

More 13th century reenactors (not templars, just regular european knights)

[sullen charm]

Really crosses all over the suit ?

Never seen that

[terse bronze]

You can do whatever on the surcoats if you're a knight you can display your heraldry as such

but templars were special because they were part of a military order, so had to follow a set of rules

[sullen charm]

Yeah then

[terse bronze]

anyway refs for the channel

[sullen charm]

Where u finding this

Is it just google

[terse bronze]

years of collecting tbh and groups on fb ect

[turbid shadow]

facebook is a gold mine for things like this

[vocal vale]

facebook and pinterest are my main mines

[sullen charm]

I use Pinterest

[vocal vale]

be careful on pinterest because some of it can be hard to distinguish as historical or not

[sullen charm]

Alright

[vocal vale]

my goat in the third picture …

[turbid shadow]

clean ass soft kit

nothing more nothing less

[sullen charm]

I didn’t notice the channel name before is sent messages damn

What are they planning on the future ? Are they gonna make knights of different factions ?

[unkempt rampart]

No

Wdym by factions

[sullen charm]

Categories

[turbid shadow]

well kinda yes

[unkempt rampart]

Elaborate

[vocal vale]

they’re making knights of real life

[unkempt rampart]

Like wdym by categories?

[sullen charm]

That’s cool

[vocal vale]

by which i mean knights that wear equipment based on location

i guess holy rome and like the kingdom of england are factions

[turbid shadow]

hre,france,english,bohemia,italy

[unkempt rampart]

All fitting the time period

So NO Vikings, Templars or other stuff

[turbid shadow]

you could see those on the wip post that franky showed when he was showcasing the new classes

tho italy wasn’t present

[sullen charm]

As I mentioned like either regions, or kingdoms

[vocal vale]

Ital E

[vocal vale]

yeah

[unkempt rampart]

Okay good just making sure

[sullen charm]

What else

[vocal vale]

bout it

[terse bronze]

france baise ouais n°1 🇫🇷 FleurDeLys 🍷 🧀 🥖 badassepicknightthatiscool

[sullen charm]

What are the first in the plan if there is

[vocal vale]

probably more gothic armor

considering it takes place in the hre and there’s pretty much only italian cuirasses

i hope new pauldron configs get added soon

[terse bronze]

the southern hre in question

[vocal vale]

frip you

[sullen charm]

What ?

[vocal vale]

what do you need clarified

[sullen charm]

Why southern

[unkempt rampart]

Because it’s where the game is set?

[vocal vale]

southern hre has “italian” territory

so italian cuirasses fit

[sullen charm]

Oh bc you said the Italian

[vocal vale]

yeah

[sullen charm]

Understandable

I want the gore first

Been waiting for it

[vocal vale]

this is not the place to discuss such things

[ancient pivot]

Just look through this channel regularly and you'll start to get a grip on how stuff looks. Also follow reputable historians like Toby Capwell on social media, or read his books, there are plenty of good reenactors out there, although sometimes they get stuff wrong. If you're trying to find specific things, looking for extant pieces from museum and collections is your best bet, as well as looking at things like manuscripts

[vocal vale]

also feel free to ask questions here and the respective time period threads

[ancient pivot]

Idk about Templars, but some good reenactors are Mitch Lawrence & Zac Evans, also follow armourers like Jeffrey Wasson. All 3 of those are on Instagram. Not active anymore, but check out Knyght Errant's YouTube channel, has lots of very informative videos on armour

[lone osprey]

tbh as per @bright token's post it almost feels redundant to post anything with roel renman's albums https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/albums/
but sometimes things seem to have the HS vibe and would be cool to see that maybe he hasn't taken a photograph of (or maybe the museum repro is better than a photograph) so it doesn't feel too redundant

[unkempt rampart]

Religious figures depicted in full armor gotta be one of the coolest things out there

[terse bronze]

Saint Michael always on top

[robust tendon]

[silver heart]

@sullen charm hre during the time period the game is set in for reference

[bright token]

English and German foot soldiers

I really like that sallet with rondels in the 3rd pic :]

I rarely see visor like that in modern reproduction sallets

[unkempt rampart]

What kind of polearms are those in the third picture?

[terse bronze]

Awlpike

[stuck sigil]

I wonder if they were still in use in the 15th c

well late 15th. They look neat

[terse bronze]

well..? yes??

the reenactment group above is late 15thc

[silver heart]

they were used into the 16th century

[lone osprey]

im certain this is a repost but cant find it and its on my mind

[terse bronze]

I love this helmet so much

Also this manuscripts is my fav one I love it

[lone osprey]

I think you posted that horseback one earlier but I couldn't find it. the Rene master is so good his miniatures are amazing.

[terse bronze]

The third pic with the huge melee, the guy in the front, middle-ish with his Spear and full harness and a warhat

This Guy is me

My favorite Guy in any ms

Also something funny I found a while ago

[turbid shadow]

the doppleganger

[lone osprey]

the detail of the spot to have the lance rest with it taken off is great

[stuck sigil]

hope we get an awlpike in HS soon

[vocal vale]

i like brig lady

where’s that manuscript from

france?

[unkempt rampart]

Yeah I’m interested what is that manuscript of?

[lone osprey]

https://search.onb.ac.at/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=ONB_alma21302509430003338&context=L&vid=ONB&lang=de_DE&search_scope=ONB_gesamtbestand&adaptor=Local Search Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,cod. 2617&mode=basic&offset=0

Cod. 2617 in the ONB

first inventory they have a record of it in is Maximilian's daughter Margarets library but it presumably goes back to Philip or Charles Burgundian libraries before it was taken to austria? its actually pretty strange, because the other one for Rene by d'Eyck, Livre du cuer d'amours, was possessed by Prinz Eugen which is prett remarkable and how it got into Austrian possession

attributed to Barthelemy d'Eyck so netherlandish but working for rene d'anjou

it's of Boccaccio's Teseida which I guess has amazons in it explaining the armoured women

[lone osprey]

i just noticed hes really giving to her

[next orchid]

The tiny French swords

[silver heart]

hold your horses pal, bec de faucon first, then everything else is game

[robust tendon]

we have that already..

[silver heart]

really? ik we have corbin, wasn’t aware we had faucon, unless i’m blind

[robust tendon]

are you baiting

a bec de faucon is just a pollax

Which we have many variations of

[silver heart]

i’m aware but, i have yet to find one in the traditional faucon styling

i.e., this

[robust tendon]

i think we have those

more or less

[silver heart]

it’s very much possible, like i said, one of gods gifts to me was not good eyesight, rather he decided an autistic obsession with medieval polearms was more adequate

[robust tendon]

the truth

[silver heart]

need a variation of the astronauts pointing at the earth but their in medieval armor just going, “wait, it’s all pollaxes? always has been”

[next orchid]

Helmbarte is the real poleaxe

[vast birch]

poland mentioned🦅 🇵🇱

[copper nova]

Pretty sure one like that is in the game but I wouldn't blame you if you didn't notice

[robust tendon]

never heard this term before, which source is it from?

[next orchid]

its german

[robust tendon]

i see

[next orchid]

helm (handle) barte (axe)

[silver heart]

yeah i prolly just haven’t noticed

i’ll look for it when i hop on today

[copper nova]

I've seen ones similar at least

[silver heart]

yeah i mean ik there’s the lucerne i just haven’t seen that particular configuration

yeah i’ve clicked through all the classes that i’d think would have one to no avail

[terse bronze]

Ripping my face off rn

[vale pollen]

My father, with the green and red plume, in his late 15th C English harness probably 1470, largely based from the effigy of Sir William Harcourt. Gothic English style but likley made in an italian workshop.

[terse bronze]

pog

[vocal vale]

thats awesome holy cow

[silver heart]

holy based

[silver heart]

bluds got the scorpion

[sullen charm]

1415 french

[terse bronze]

Too early for the game

[sullen charm]

I’m

Ik

[terse bronze]

the what?

[sullen charm]

I said 1415 sadly

[silver heart]

dudes dad has the scorpion

[terse bronze]

Ah this

[vale pollen]

That would belong to old mate on the far right, who made all but one of these harnesses

Hes an incredible smithy

[terse bronze]

Isn't this design of "bills" a bit late for the harnesses shown tho ?

i think those "scorpions" are 16thc

could be wrong

[vale pollen]

Id be lying if i said i knew, it is possible, we were "scrambling" for polearms for the photos a little bit

[terse bronze]

true true

[vale pollen]

https://www.manningimperial.com/

This is his shop and other works

[silver heart]

it first appeared in the early 16th century

[cloud haven]

this

[lucid storm]

its interesting how they had mastered lighting and the finer points of anatomy like in the rennaissance but they still had the fucked up perspective and scaling of the middle ages

[silver heart]

spike pommeled swords, first image showcases a lithuanian estoc dated to the 15th century, second image is from fiore, and and third is from talhoffer

[fleet junco]

Thank you brewvi for this info

[silver heart]

🫡

[next orchid]

manuscript miniatures dont have the goal to accurately represent the world

[fleet junco]

In one swoop the brandy knight sliced the horse head off of its body

Cant find the manuscript for that

[grizzled mesa]

Portuguese soldiers

[fleet junco]

Thank you julian for the portuguese soldiers

[grizzled mesa]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/O_Cerco_de_Arzila_(Tapeçaria_de_Pastrana).jpg

from the tapestries of pastrana (bottom is siege of arzila)

[fleet junco]

This one look cool

[prisma raven]

Meester van Kärnten (Master of Carinthia), Saint Michael Weighing the Soul, ca. 1480 | Gemäldegalerie, Berlin

Sankt Göran, (1475-1500), Unknonwn Swedish Master from Mälardalen, Värmdö, Uppland, Sweden.

Sankt Jörgen (~1464), Valløby kirke, Sjælland, Danmark.

Saint Nicholas triptych 1477 Więcławice Stare Poland

St Sebastian, St Achatius, 1456, Master of Albrecht Altar, Vienna

St. Michael & St. John the Evangelist *Artist:*Master of the Albrechtsaltar-Circle *Date:*1456-1456 *Location:*Klosterneuburg, Lower Austria, Austria

[vocal vale]

last guy is slick

[grizzled mesa]

I found more

[terse bronze]

the complete tapestries are literally available on wikipedia lol

[lone osprey]

c.1450 Spätgotischer Reiterharnisch - Kastenbrust - Wien Museum

Alan Williams on it in 2003 The Knight and the Blast Furnace

[torpid ridge]

Chainmail shirt when ❤️‍🩹

[terse bronze]

hi rorik

[robust tendon]

chainmail

[torpid ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1201755203301543966/1280994883045429330/wwAXadrC.gif

[vale pollen]

maillle

[vocal vale]

~1440s but still pretty fitting
italian
by boris gauda

[vocal vale]

^

[silver heart]

you could NOT catch my ass wearing that

[vocal vale]

you could definitely catch me wearing that

love it

[void stream]

woah these plumes are wonderful

[upper lintel]

You WILL definetly catch ME wearing that

[robust tendon]

they gonna catch me dead in that

[cursive pier]

bad and naughty knights get the feather duster

[turbid shadow]

worth it

ue5 is not gonna enjoy seeing a guy with that huge fucking plume

[vale pollen]

you just dont know what real drip is

[lone osprey]

I pray to the halfsword gods that one day a mounted combat equivalent will come

I wish the Della Arte Della Guerra guys would release a teaser of their tournaments with a joust

[dusty harness]

Landsknechte were drippy as fuck, even though they pillaged my city

[silver heart]

what city ya from?

[dusty harness]

Rome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(1527) they wrote graffiti in the vatican palace these animals 😩

[silver heart]

ohhhh, yeah…, yeah, they did a number on ya

[dusty harness]

1480

[burnt bobcat]

5th one my favourite

[fleet junco]

They have big opium hats

[void stream]

some reference pictures for the game

[vocal vale]

love 2

[heady oar]

They suck at like depth of field and really everything but they are good at drawing body’s and clothing

[lone osprey]

second is from maxs zeugbucher which are 16th cent

[void stream]

ok

[lone osprey]

Not sure ive seen a painting with DoF prior to like contemporary or impressionists at least lol

[lone osprey]

Still love it, just being

[void stream]

at least the rest of images are from late 15th century

[lone osprey]

Tbh he even has valois era burgundian cannons in those books, so i wouldnt be surprised if some of the kit was old too.

[lone osprey]

third one is wild
and visor in the last one

[vocal vale]

pretty similar to this i figure

[ancient pivot]

it doesn't even have a hinge

[terse bronze]

what?

it does

[ancient pivot]

on this one

[terse bronze]

It's weirdly draw but this is supposed to be the hinge

Probably connected to the bevor aswell like those early close sallets

[lone osprey]

cool never seen such a thing for a sallet i mean

guess this is why it pays not to ignore all the fragmented individual bits they have in some museums

[verbal bramble]

Anyone got any references on armorer's workshops other than Maximilian's workshop woodcut?

[silver heart]

never seen a pollaxe with that rear prong hammer head before, neat

[heady oar]

Found while scrolling tik tok

Ok but I think it might be the same like face mask thing in that painting or whatever

[vocal vale]

try to only use period imagery or reputable reenactor photos here

[ancient pivot]

Bevor, they're usually paired with sallets

[fleet junco]

That is one ugly ass falling buffe

[lone osprey]

there are numerous in the 2012 phd thesis by Nickolas Dupras: Armourers and their Workshops The Tools and Tehcniques of Late Medieval Armour Production

[verbal bramble]

Thank you

I was looking for the second half of the 15th century

[lone osprey]

that woodcut is from c.1460

[verbal bramble]

Oh, that is perfect: I assume the PhD haves more pictures like these, no?

[vocal vale]

slick !

[lone osprey]

yeah, exactly. but its range is 'late medieval' so it goes from over the 15th (mainly, with some older) to the early 16th century. the thesis itself is also incredible and goes into great extreme detail about the production of pieces in the royal armouries. that particular woodcut is the best single image of an armorer's workshop from the second half of the 15th century that I know of

it uses the Mendel Hausbuch a lot too: dated 1483

https://online-service.nuernberg.de/viewer/image/5d64f831-7a9d-47b4-9a01-d6a28f29ad99/207/LOG_0207/

these are more detailed (like that is just a polisher specifically hence the jug in the background)

but it was composed over the 15th/16th centuries (up to 1533), and some of the more detailed illustrations of armour/tool production in the same codex are dated decades earlier 1420s-1430s

[heady oar]

ya ik

[terse bronze]

pretty common amongst pollaxes actually!

[silver heart]

oh ive seen the second, third, and fourth, just not the first

[terse bronze]

skibidi (ect)

[lone osprey]

flails in HS would be so fun

[terse bronze]

mad agree ‼️

[odd scaffold]

Bad

[ancient pivot]

Does that sallet in the 2nd pic belong with that bevor? Looks like a weird combo

[terse bronze]

Don't think it does but realistically nothing would stop you to have them together

[heady oar]

Literally just and example

[odd scaffold]

Bad example

[zenith forge]

I sorta wish there was a way the devs could make it so when using the rondel dagger willie at least tries to hit soft areas or the visor slit or bevor slit

you can do it but it takes way too much stabbing lol

[heady oar]

Ok hop off

[odd scaffold]

Bad boy.

[heady oar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1041189917981671446/1286519971513634969/ezgif-7-df550fa76e.gif

[jaunty panther]

yoooooo

[silver heart]

roncone in the third pic😻😻😻

[agile flame]

I've been wishing for some kind of magneting. We already have the passive parry box, and I know it is a lot of work, but a passive "stab them in the soft bits" on a downed enemy would be nice.

[zenith forge]

Yeah. With proper positioning it's definitely possible but I usually have to grab their arm and just stab back and forth over and over to finally get it in

[vocal vale]

this is so sick nasty

[vocal vale]

more of ol charlie