references♥_1450-1470

[terse bronze]

the bottom hammer is fucking huge Jesus Christ

no man can use that efficiently

[wraith dew]

Didn't say that this one was nor-was I trying to imply so, just saying that it was a realatively more realistic one, besides there's no scale

[wraith dew]

Why are the bolts so short?

[lyric light]

That’s normal

Crossbows aren’t very powerful

And can’t draw back far

[wraith dew]

Aren't they like 200+ Pounds?

~ { Of draw strength

[terse bronze]

"crossbows aren't very powerful"

[wraith dew]

and power }

[lyric light]

Most of it is lost due to inefficiency

[wraith dew]

?

[lyric light]

Friction and metal loses more energy to itself

[wraith dew]

F

[lyric light]

Need super heavy draw weights to compare to bows

[wraith dew]

Bruh

[terse bronze]

me af

[wraith dew]

I've been fucking lied to...

https://tenor.com/view/disco-my-honest-reaction-gif-27477707

[lyric light]

Also while on the topic, short bows of a draw weight equal to a long bow are slightly more powerful than the long bow, less lost energy

But long bows were wayyyy easier to make

[wraith dew]

BOI

[terse bronze]

scratch that, that's me actually

[wraith dew]

I feel like Polearms other than the Poleaxe & Pike are typically useless against cavalry in most medieval games...

[terse bronze]

boys will see this and say hell yeah

(hell yeah)

[wraith dew]

• Cough-Cough Medieval 2 : Total War Cough-Cough *

[terse bronze]

@turbid shadow us af

(source: https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.8710.html)

[lyric light]

Most games don’t understand how melee weapons work and interact at all sadly

[terse bronze]

I feel like we shouldn't care they are video games

[bright ferry]

i forget where but i read that leg armour was typically the last on the list of priorities for the typical german soldier of the period

[terse bronze]

i guarantee you that a realistic armor fighting game will be extremely boring and tedious

[wraith dew]

Balance is thrown off by it

[lyric light]

True I love spam RT gameplay

[lyric light]

Goobery art style

[bright ferry]

complete lack of leg protection

[bright ferry]

i think it has something to do with the constant marching

[terse bronze]

there's that too ofc

[bright ferry]

and considering theyre all going to be in formation anyway

[lyric light]

Greaves are one of the most expensive pieces you can get, needs to fit perfectly

[bright ferry]

that makes sense

[wraith dew]

We just gonna ignore the fact that somebody somehow, decided to just pretend that sallet didn't exist and hacked through it with their sword?...

[terse bronze]

Italians seemed to fucking love their greaves

[bright ferry]

meanwhile a typical burgher can just get a mail shirt and munitions plate for relatively cheap

[terse bronze]

even sometimes a guy fucking but naked with a hat will have greaves for some reason

[lyric light]

Yep

[bright ferry]

heres some more for kriegsknechte 1475

[lyric light]

Need

[terse bronze]

I love these guys

[wraith dew]

It's about the greaves spidaman!

[terse bronze]

Burgundian Pikemen

[bright ferry]

german footman

[bright ferry]

i love helmets with rondels

[terse bronze]

they're underappreciated fr

[terse bronze]

I love tails on kettles and sallets

[bright ferry]

this one is too early for the game im afraid

1425~

[wraith dew]

Wait so what's the exact time period of the game again?

Like 1480 smth?

[bright ferry]

i think 1450s-1480s

[wraith dew]

Eh,

I mean

25 years

that's fair

[bright ferry]

some gents from the hausbuch wolfegg

[wraith dew]

Wait

[wraith dew]

how common were Mercenaries & Free-Companies during this time?

[bright ferry]

that i do not know

[terse bronze]

1430-80

[bright ferry]

that type of light arm harness is also very nice

[wraith dew]

@terse bronze

[terse bronze]

That's not something you can really quantify

there's no stats

there just were mercs

[wraith dew]

Oh wow

[bright ferry]

repost but this has to be my favourite german kit

[wraith dew]

crazy

[terse bronze]

always have been

[terse bronze]

this one is so hot fr

Honestly sleeping guards on resurrection painting always have the best drip

[bright ferry]

schecke and mail shirts when....

[wraith dew]

Gold & Black gothic Knight Armor goes hard frfr ong

[terse bronze]

fonrk

[bright ferry]

the guy right above with a nasal sallet it looks like is very nice

[terse bronze]

I love germanic jaques!!!

[wraith dew]

?

[terse bronze]

(boys will see this and say hell yeah, hell yeah)

[wraith dew]

'Jaques'?

[bright ferry]

this game is scratching a major itch ive had since playing exanima the first time fr

[terse bronze]

jacks, 15thc padded shit

[wraith dew]

Wait so there was padded stuff around the 1400's

[terse bronze]

Here's one in the French fashion

[terse bronze]

as standalone armor yes

[wraith dew]

OHHHHHHHH

[terse bronze]

or like semi standalone

[bright ferry]

ive seen this guy before his kit is very nice

that mail standard is glorious

[terse bronze]

And those are jacks in the "germanic" fashion (but used in parts of northern France and Burgundian held lowlands for instance)

[bright ferry]

need one of those ingame because the neck is so vulnerable lol

[bright ferry]

germans leading the way in fashion once again

german light cavalry of the era is insanely dripped out

(a lovely duerer painting)

[wraith dew]

Did they post the playtest update yet?

[terse bronze]

I have a repro of Durer's "Rider and Death" right beside me tehe

[bright ferry]

ive been to the durer house in nurnberg

its very nice

they have an era appropriate functional printing press there too

[bright ferry]

more from the hausbuch wolfegg

[terse bronze]

fav armet ever (too early for the game)

[bright ferry]

for me it has to be maximilian armets

[terse bronze]

I flippin love it

[bright ferry]

i saw quite a few grotesque helmets in nurnberg and regensburg

i love the one with the wolf snout

[terse bronze]

Oh awesome

[wraith dew]

Yes.

[terse bronze]

yknow I love maxi armets but on't like the grotesque ones

like they're cool and all

[terse bronze]

but I much prefer the "basic" ones

[terse bronze]

aint that one a 19thc repro tho

[wraith dew]

Lol

[bright ferry]

ye

lemme see if i can find the pics i took of grotesques

[wraith dew]

Maximillian Gauntlets go hard frfr ong

[bright ferry]

im a milanese gauntlet fan

i love my mittens

id choose them over articulated gothic gauntlets any day

[terse bronze]

Still can't compare to this perfect armet

[terse bronze]

Have you ever seen gothic mittens

they're so hot

[bright ferry]

open face grand bascinet with an orle....

[bright ferry]

oh yes theyre so good

i love mitten gauntlets period

protecting my hands..

[terse bronze]

maille mittens !!!

(with rondel on it if 15thc)

[bright ferry]

hes just so dripped out

[bright ferry]

rondels on EVERYTHING

cant have enough rondels

rondels on your helmet, rondels on your shoulders, rondels on your hands, rondels on your knees, rondels on your dagger

[terse bronze]

fr

rondel on yo sworf

[bright ferry]

have you seen that parade armour made by the vienna tinsmiths iirc

or nurnberg tinsmiths

who knew they had it in em

obv too late for the game

[bright token]

I love the shape of this armet

[terse bronze]

similars

[bright token]

Ayee i love them so much especially the first one you sent

[bright ferry]

i do love that english sallet

[terse bronze]

yeah it's a quite the odd one of the bunch i sent but its great

[bright ferry]

have you seen the milanese "alla inglese" export armour?

i love it

[terse bronze]

I probably have but the name doesn't ring a bell

[bright ferry]

let me see if i can find

[terse bronze]

reminds me of the "alla francese" harness

that was made by italians for a german noble

[bright ferry]

big pheet

[tired pasture]

fredric

[turbid shadow]

I think this drawing is like 1490 or something

Unfortunately too late for the game lol

[turbid shadow]

My internet was acting up so I didn’t see this ping, but this shit is so real

[fleet junco]

Not enough rondels

[lost zealot]

rondeland

[torpid urchin]

I like knights

[lost zealot]

I like peasants

[bright ferry]

i like the urban bourgeoisie

[wraith dew]

Holy rondel

[wraith dew]

Again. Holy rondel Batman!

[vocal vale]

if this isnt in half sword i will actually weep

its SO BEAUTIFUL

[fleet junco]

This is halfsword

[upper lintel]

Its hard to belive almost

Crazy progress

[bright token]

made by Armour Services Historical

neat

[vocal vale]

interesting bevor

i like it

[robust tendon]

war fork

[turbid shadow]

we forking tonight

[robust tendon]

the forker

[terse bronze]

i fork with it

[torpid urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-phat-tuesdays-thats-funny-haha-lol-gif-24914150

[humble pagoda]

What is the decoration on the arms called?

[terse bronze]

houppelande

just the sleeve parts

[vocal vale]

so it was padding, chainmail, houppelande?

[terse bronze]

No padding

[vocal vale]

houppelande act as padding? ?

[terse bronze]

No

[vocal vale]

arming garment

[tired pasture]

they r cool sleeve

im buying a full like 15th century outfit for abt 950 USD with houppelande sleeves

[fleet junco]

Im buying larp armor

10 bucks

100 bucks

[turbid shadow]

Interesting, Can you show the parts of the outfit later?

[tired pasture]

sure

[humble pagoda]

How is the leather of a glove connected to a gauntlet?

[tepid edge]

I remember seeing a partial breastplate in the videos showing the new update soon.

The only that really only protects the lower torso and thins out significantly towards the upper torso, eventually leaving most of the shoulder region exposed.

I assume it was ment to be worn with another upper piece but was it ever worn alone?

Will show pic later if nobody knows what I'm talking about.

[lone topaz]

its usually stitched directly into it as far as im aware

gauntlet with no glove attached

[terse bronze]

placard?

[hallow fiber]

There is some iconography of placard on top of brigandine

[terse bronze]

it's not on topof brigandine

It's most likely some kind of surcoat that they worn over the breastplate but under the placard, or straight up covered breastplate because we have only 1 textual source talking about "placard over brigandine" but how it's describe doesn't really point toward a literal placard being tied to a brigandine

[terse bronze]

it's pretty obvious on this one

[hallow fiber]

Even if that might not have been the case, which is debatable, visually it would have made no difference, except perhaps the overall shape, given the fact those dots are likely rivers and not just some textile embroideries.

[tepid edge]

Yep

[terse bronze]

the tri-dot pattern isn't necessarily brigandine, in fact it shows up on regular clothing quite often, it's even believed that the brigandine tri-rivet pattern comes from clothing designs

" no way brigandine surcoat !! 😱 "

no it's just a popular pattern accross the middle ages

[terse bronze]

I've never seen it worn without some sort of breastplate (except that pic, but again, there might be a breastplate under those jaques) because of how placards works they are supposed to be buckled to the bp

[hallow fiber]

The depiction of three doted patterns on civilian clothes is extremely marginal, in fact you can navigate through thousands of depictions of civilians without ever encountering any with such patterns, on the other hand the presence of three dots on armor (especially on what clearly appears to be brigandines) is fairly common

[terse bronze]

So, first of all, cap
Sure it's not the most common pattern for clothing but it is very much still a thing
secondly, that doesn't mean placards (as in the lower part of a cuirass) were worn with brigandines, you can't just say "oh but it looks like that!!" because there's no written accounts of that, and the only one that does is problematic like I explained before
wow brigandine sallet did you see that

Just because it has 3 dots doesn't automatically make it a brigandine

[turbid shadow]

I love this depiction yo!!!

[terse bronze]

PhD in Medieval History Nicolas P. Baptiste during the "Torneo in Armatura" from 2019 in his Franco-Burgundian inspired harness

[rocky sand]

Is that plate covered in fabric? or am i not looking currectly

[lone topaz]

it does look like covered plate yeah

[terse bronze]

It is plate covered in fabric

Which we know was done

[turbid shadow]

this is really informative kevlar thank you!

[rocky sand]

idk that was a thing thats awesome

[terse bronze]

yeah even helmets could be covered

[hallow fiber]

It doesn’t necessarily mean it is, but in terms of aspect it won’t really make much of a difference, at the end of the day we only see the outer layer not the inner structure at best we can guess it when looking at folds or lack-thereof of the fabric during movement, in terms of 3d modeling and texturing for a game both would be textured the same way regardless of the hypothetical inner structure.

[lone topaz]

sadly yes..

[terse bronze]

brigandine burgonet!

But fr i love that one

[lone topaz]

its very funky

[terse bronze]

it's supposed to be paired with a brig

or jack-of-plate whatever

[turbid shadow]

yea really cool piece

I love this warwick harness, or I at least I think this is what he used

excited for the final finish to it

[lone topaz]

i like the indentation on the plackart

[terse bronze]

Lastly i'm here's some Spanish(Catanlonia) and Italian examples of giorneas (surcoats) being worn in a way to covers the breastplate but is under the placard

[hallow fiber]

Obviously those are definitely not brigandines

[terse bronze]

duh!!

[hallow fiber]

In fact some of the early breastplates from the late 14th early 15th century were covered by textiles held in place by rivets

[terse bronze]

Yes

Brigandine/Corazzina depending on textual sources

[ripe flare]

Some nice things I saw at the Dresden armory in Germany

[hallow fiber]

Are those 16th century pieces in the first images?

[ripe flare]

I don’t remember the dates given unfortunately and I can’t seem to find it online, but the first cuirass looks like it’s from the 16th c

[hallow fiber]

Very nice images regardless

[fleet junco]

can we get churburg 14

[robust tendon]

Milanese export, in the english style

[terse bronze]

yeah the first 2 are early 16thc but cool ass images

love those early 16thc smooth cuirasses

[blissful venture]

Anyone have any basic swords or spear referances

[upper lintel]

ive always wondered,what is that little steel plate in the back of the neck?

[fleet junco]

rondel

[robust tendon]

rondel ye

[fleet junco]

its main purpose is to hold a cup of tea when you are done fighting

[robust tendon]

it's meant to have less force on the neck

[fleet junco]

its actually a button to turn off the knight

[upper lintel]

tea specifically? or coffe works too?

[robust tendon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKNI7wqqf_U if you're interested

[upper lintel]

yeah i was thank you

[fleet junco]

@terse bronze what is he wear on his arm

[terse bronze]

rearbrace

[fleet junco]

Why just the rearbrace

[terse bronze]

might be something about fashion and status, idk why the rearbrace specifically but it shows A LOT in french art where military men, in "civilian" attires (or lightly armed) retain their rearbrace

there's a pinterest album FILLED with sources for this i can't find it rn but trust me it's very popular in french ms

[fleet junco]

So weird

Anyways, thanks

[terse bronze]

https://www.pinterest.es/tghosthero/late-medieval-european-sources/separate-french-upper-cannon/ found it

If I had to guess maube it's because it's a piece of armor that don't really hinder movement, like something you can wear "everyday" without being bothered by it like a pair of gauntlet, pauldrons or something

I have no sources to back this up this is literally conjecture from me

[fleet junco]

He kinda looks like willie

[fair kite]

fr

[vocal vale]

i love those besagews

[lost zealot]

yoo, anyone knows what armor is this ?

[terse bronze]

It's period fantasy, all'antica

There's a statue of that armor at the Maximilian tomb

[lost zealot]

cool

[upper lintel]

That's dope

[hallow fiber]

Part of a set :

Some depart from any known armor but some are pretty close to some contemporary ceremonial armors

[robust tendon]

the first one is the most likely to be something that may have been worn, it’s more or less an ornate 16th century maximillian harness

The others not so much imo

[terse bronze]

Armors in this manuscript (and the statues at Maximilian's tomb) are supposed to be ppl from his family, his ancestors ect (hence why some have pretty fantastical armors with inspiration from real armors) while the first one could literally be maximilian himself

[golden ingot]

Pretty cool art

[rocky sand]

this type of stuff willie would survive and then kill you in one shot

[upper lintel]

what are the things on his legs on picture #3?

they look super cool

but ive never seen them not in practical nor ceremonial armour

[ancient pivot]

knee tassels, for extra cool points

[upper lintel]

extra swag

[latent drift]

does anybody know what type of this helmet this is?

[clever bramble]

Armet #references♥_1450-1470 message

[latent drift]

thank you very much

[obsidian sun]

lol

[robust tendon]

looks like a pretty poor depiction

but if i had to guess it'd be a great bascinet

[hallow fiber]

A type of ornament called campane, which are a stylized representation of repeating bell like shapes with some tassel at the tip, they were used a little bit everywhere between the 16th(perhaps even before) and the early 18th century, their popularity peaked in the late 17th century, you find them more often as valences for canopies, but they are also used in architecture and sometimes even in fashion.

I used exemples ranging from the 16th to 18th century

[lost zealot]

addition to the set

[upper lintel]

mf got a whole chandelier on his head

[terse bronze]

so good

[turbid shadow]

verrrry nice replica

[vocal vale]

the drip is otherworldly

[lost zealot]

[humble pagoda]

How many types of Rondels are there?

[ancient pivot]

1

round ones

[vocal vale]

some of them are kinda spiky in the middle

if you count those

[stuck sigil]

What about the rectangular ones ?

[terse bronze]

they're just besagews

rondels implies round

[ancient shale]

Loving the graphic on this shield, colors and design are nice

[vocal vale]

what are the chainmail shorts called again

[robust tendon]

braies

[fleet junco]

besa ew

[terse bronze]

Maille braies / braies of maille

Just saying "braies" refers to the clothing

[rocky sand]

Is this shield anything?

[terse bronze]

sometimes in manuscripts very similar shields show up

[rocky sand]

What about the design? just a regular pattern?

[terse bronze]

yeah

[rocky sand]

Poor guy

Thank you kevlar

[stuck sigil]

wait, are thye not serving the same lord ?

[terse bronze]

no..?

what makes you think that

[stuck sigil]

just a feeling since cropping just the 3 guys looked like they were on the same side

What battle didthis depict ?

[terse bronze]

idk

probably some 100 years war battle since it's from a froissart chronicle

[tired pasture]

hello haft ward server

[unkempt reef]

RS-28 Sarmat (used to destroy Constinople in 1453 [real])

[bright ferry]

"The photo shows a typical troop of armed foot soldiers. The two crossbows and the handgun on the left in the picture are on loan from Tobi Putzo and Alex Würkner.

In the historical context, there are also repeated references within city levies that show that conscripts and mercenaries were loaned weapons and equipment by other residents."

[bright ferry]

all from kriegsknechte 1475 and comitatus 1475

[wraith dew]

Made a New COA in honor of the new Playtest lol : 𝕳𝖔𝖚𝖘𝖊 𝕮𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖌𝖆𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖘

[lost zealot]

i found the inspiration of the icons on halfsword

[quaint grove]

please

[hallow fiber]

Very nice, where are those taken from?

Or more colloquially, “source?”

[ionic creek]

depicting them killing routing men

[rocky sand]

Are the people here more knowledgable of sword techniques than game chat?

[vocal vale]

why do you ask

[civic glade]

Im a historical fencer at least

[vocal vale]

same

[rocky sand]

Would you consider this a false edge? if so i have discovered the secret technique of false edge cuts

Atleast this one type

[vocal vale]

definitely the swing is there but the impact / actual hit i cant particularly tell

if you stepped back really quick and slid it across his side i think it would land a little better

[rocky sand]

The swing got messed up but i have another one with a better impact but i die as i do it

[vocal vale]

feel free to show

it looks pretty cool

[civic glade]

Yeah, i guess youre cutting from zwechsel into ochs, the actual strike lacks impact tho

[vocal vale]

props for figurin it out

[civic glade]

It does look sick

[vocal vale]

you're one of them germans

[civic glade]

Ive been reading fiore recently

Hes so much more readable than meyer

[vocal vale]

armizare is a lot less technical than the other schools from what i can tell

the techniques dont have as many names to them methinks

[rocky sand]

just edited real quick

[vocal vale]

HECK YEAH

THAT'S LIKE PERFECT

what inputs did you make to do that?

[rocky sand]

Hold sword back and to left or right it doesnt matter

and then just press ALT without moving mouse

[vocal vale]

oh my it really does work

[rocky sand]

I cant find anything on youtube i may have done it i have invented something

[vocal vale]

you honestly did, i've never seen someone else pull something like that off

[rocky sand]

There is a vid on this discord but its old itch.io version

[vocal vale]

im gonna use that a crap ton for defense and stuff

it looks like it'd be good for parrying too

[rocky sand]

And not same kind of false edge

[vocal vale]

props to you brotherman

[rocky sand]

hell yeah thx for verification

I guess i got to make this known

[left coral]

DUDE I KNEW ALT TAPS WERE GONNA BE USEFUL

FUCK YEAH FALSE EDGE CUTS

[rocky sand]

Im so glad i attacked a fence goofily

[clever bramble]

I don't know if all of them are but many are from the The Nuremberg Chronicle.
https://www.loc.gov/resource/gdcwdl.wdl_04108/?st=gallery&c

[robust tendon]

rest of this is of dubious historical quality but the man in the center is peak

[grave jackal]

Joachim Meyer?!?!?!? the 16th century german cutler and fencing master, popular for "The Art Of Combat"!?!?!?!?!?

[grave jackal]

Fiore Dei Liberi!?!?!? the 14th century knight, and author of "Fior Di battaglia"!?!?!?!?

[grave jackal]

It looks like a sturtzhau, from a lower, nebenhut guard

[civic glade]

yesm, those guys

[grave jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/jake-adventure-time-amazement-awe-shocked-gif-5703590

[tepid edge]

Huh

[hallow fiber]

Thank you! What intrigued me the most about those HS icons was the fact that they were clearly prints which was quite exceptional for the time period, but now it all makes sense.

[lost zealot]

Pinterest

[stuck sigil]

False edge to the jaw vs a blade through the ribs. I think we understand why you lost this encounter

[copper nova]

Anyone know why or how people made pavise shields with that curved part going through the center?

Like in this for example

Feels like it'd be way easier to just do a flat shield

[robust tendon]

well it’d be uncomfortable to hold your hand flat against the wood

and even more so when the shield is hit

This is the same reason other shield designs have a boss (the round metal bit in the center where the hand rests)

[rocky sand]

Yeah i was trying to demonstrate the technique so i wasnt paying to much attention to footwork

[terse bronze]

that would be true if pavises had a central grip

[terse bronze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvvGGR8i8U&pp=ygUWbWFraW5nIGEgcGF2aXNlIHNoaWVsZA%3D%3D as for the how :

[robust tendon]

forgot about that

The rest of what i said is correct though no?

[terse bronze]

I mean imo it's just style cuz there's some examples of "pavises" tha are flat

[lost zealot]

yo, did anyone knows what helmet is this ?

[blissful venture]

got a side view?

it looks like a great bascinet

[lost zealot]

i only have some pictures of it, no side view

[blissful venture]

looks like it seperates into two pieces

so it would be a bevour and bascinet

which would make it a great bascinet

atleast from my guess, beacuse it looks very weird

[lost zealot]

im interested of the historical accuracy of this helmet ever existed

[blissful venture]

There could be a chance, but i honestly don't think so

and if it was actually made, it would be something like, 17-19th century

[terse bronze]

Bicoque

[turbid shadow]

Yes

[terse bronze]

They did

[turbid shadow]

It seems to be inspired by sole altar piece too

[terse bronze]

yeah

there's this famous surviving piece

[blissful venture]

Bicoque looks like another type of armet

[terse bronze]

that's pretty much what it is

[blissful venture]

Ah, alr gotcha, so what century is it from?

[terse bronze]

15thc

[blissful venture]

Know of any other types of helmets?

Cause the bicoque is one i aint ever heard one

[terse bronze]

idk there's like a shitton

[lost zealot]

ok thanks kevlar !

[terse bronze]

and each "types" of helmets have a bazillion variations aswell

different visors, ect

[lost zealot]

wait is there any surviving piece with the chin cone ?

[terse bronze]

Not that I know of

this one's based on an art piece

pretty sure

[lost zealot]

the one i showed ?

[terse bronze]

yeah

with the little 2 points beard

also important to note that today we're making the distinction between bicoque, armet ect but in the 15thc it very well might not have been the case

and all depending on time and regions

[blissful venture]

Im guessing armor was also passed down from generation to generation? Like among the less wealthy folk?

[terse bronze]

for instance it's believed that in the first part of the 15thC. France, "bicoque" was used to describe early forms or armets

[terse bronze]

no

[blissful venture]

Really?

[terse bronze]

Or like at least not to the extend you're thinking

[blissful venture]

Im thinking how the romans did it, where they gave their montefortinos and coolus or any type of armor they had down to their sons

[terse bronze]

Probably like father to son like a kettle here and a dagger there sure

but not like "Ohh this is the skullcap of your great great great grandpa you shall have it now" that's bullshit

[blissful venture]

Interesting that they stoped doing it

[terse bronze]

no point really

cheap plates could easily be found

for infantrymen

like a helmet and an infantry bp

[peak pewter]

cool game

[nimble schooner]

i wish we could parry like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-JynHrmpSQ&ab_channel=Akhara

[cedar wolf]

did i cook wit dis COA?

[white fulcrum]

almost

the fleurs and swords are a bit much and the crosses too

also idk about the lions

[ancient shale]

Yes I agree, those items are a little large and clip into other elements.

The shield itself could be a little wider too

If it’s supposed to be 15th century coa

Yeah some things could be re arranged too, the lions are supposed to be supporting (holding up) the shield

Example for COA creation, and depiction of 15th century COA shield:

[ancient shale]

Overall though, the color choice and saintly looking device, chefs kiss, you cooked real good

A few adjustments made to that and I woulda think it’s a real noble crest 👍

[lost zealot]

i found it !

and people used this awsome kastenbrust with it

[hallow fiber]

What about the visor?

Where does it come from?

Perhaps from Gladiatoria

I dont know honestly..

A sort of hybrid between both ?

[hallow fiber]

I can see the similarities but it isn’t a 1 to 1 equivalent of the replica in question.

[vagrant charm]

I’m trying to find it Ik I have it but I have too many references

[hallow fiber]

I think the eye-slits are there above

A bit like in those early 16th century helmets :

[vagrant charm]

Guy at the top

Very close

[hallow fiber]

I think this is indeed the reference

[cedar wolf]

ty

[vocal vale]

im actually pretty sure bicoques are an early form of close helm

its kind of debated within the community because the name "bicoque" was actually in-period used to describe, like, barbutes

by early form of close helm i mean the way you open the helmet is on the same hinge as the visor

but the only extant "bicoque" we have opens like an armet

[vocal vale]

while most of the artistic sources seem like it would open this way

[terse bronze]

or armets

at least in france

[vocal vale]

i myself have only heard of the in period barbute thing and that also came from france

[terse bronze]

according to Nicolas p. Baptiste

[vocal vale]

and that also came from TheGhostHero badgering me about it

and not actually

sending me the source like i asked

[terse bronze]

wait a sec

i know there's some ppl thinking it's a barbute but ima be honest, after reading the description from the og text it awfully sounds like an armet

at least to me

[vocal vale]

if that's the case that irks me even more that he didnt bother to send me the actual text if its up to interpretation

[terse bronze]

Translated in english by a friend of mine with the help of very knowledgeable ppl (like Eol i'm sure you know bout him)

[vocal vale]

Thanks Champ

[terse bronze]

Also that ms is from 1460 but is a copy of a 1446 one

[vocal vale]

do you have a visual reference for a montaulban hat?

[terse bronze]

It's most probably a kettle

[vocal vale]

oh yeah that makes sense

[vocal vale]

i like how often he uses fingers as measurement

"And if you ask
me how many parts they are made of, I will
answer you that it is not necessary for me to
describe them precisely, because everyone
knows of them and it would only be a waste
of words and time:"
lmao

[terse bronze]

On the bicoque topic there's also the fact that Nicolas P. Baptiste, phd in history, states in his book I read that for him bicoques were earlier forms of armets

And I read that after my own thought process that their description in the text matches, to me, armets too

[terse bronze]

yeah that paragraph is wild

bro is yappin

[vocal vale]

I'M NOT GONNA TELL YOU HOW MANY PARTS THEY HAVE BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS, SILLY!!

[terse bronze]

Also write a whole ass novel instead of 2 words

convinced the guy didn't actually knew

[vocal vale]

thats really funny to me

[terse bronze]

it's really hilarious

[turbid shadow]

where is muh armor references

[crisp girder]

here lil bro 💀

[turbid shadow]

doesn't fit the time period!!!

[toxic breach]

Not true

[terse bronze]

???

[toxic breach]

That passage is wrong

[terse bronze]

Ah ok, explain ?

[toxic breach]

Nope....

[terse bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/far-cry-3-vass-montenegro-did-i-ever-tell-you-the-definition-of-insanity-insanity-gif-9162815073500878983

[toxic breach]

I just lied

[torpid urchin]

look at this totally accurate diagram!1

[tired pasture]

the winged hussar are just ugly tbh

i don’t get why so many people swoon over them

[civic glade]

I can see the throughline in their structure

[terse bronze]

sabaton fanboys

quick reminder that sabaton fucking sucks

[civic glade]

Everybody laughs at the cod until they get decapitated

[civic glade]

Musically?

Power metal is alright. Its good for pumping to

[tired pasture]

winged hussars but cool

[civic glade]

Now if you want some real pump tracks, hammerfall is the goat

[terse bronze]

yeah

power metal is so fucking lame

[terse bronze]

hell yeah

[civic glade]

Idk, if you want intellectually stimulating music you gotta listen to like black metal or doom

[terse bronze]

guess that's what i'm already doing lol

idk I just can't get into power metal

to me it sounds like Steven Seagal's movie but for music

[lost zealot]

why

[tired pasture]

zornhut or the vom tag for today

[tepid edge]

you joke but I think you can get a similar loadout ingame

[tepid edge]

They look like they copied the romans to me

[tired pasture]

larpiest looking armor

jurmin

[tepid edge]

Guys, what are some other period accurate helmets they can add, which aren't sallets?

[tired pasture]

higher quality kettle hats

[frozen spruce]

I would love to see rusty greek/roman helmets as a low tier armor option.

Like an artifact type thing that doesn't work very well.

[tired pasture]

strays too far from what the game is trying to do

half sword just doesnt seem like the kind of game to have relic type stuff as wearables

[robust tendon]

More armet variations, eg bicoque

skullcaps

[tepid edge]

great bascinet?

[robust tendon]

yeah that too

[vocal vale]

i would love GBs

[lost zealot]

im drawing milanese armor set for art competition, is there anything lacking on it ?

its still a sketch tho

[vocal vale]

couple things

[lost zealot]

what is it

[vocal vale]

the vambraces seem a bit long, i think a nice touch would be a larger left couter, the calves seem a little large

other than that it looks pretty perfect

perhaps also a bit larger of a gauntlet on the left side to accompany the couter would be good

[lost zealot]

left couter ?

the calves ?

im sorry i dont understand any crap about this thing @vocal vale

[vocal vale]

gimme a sec

[lost zealot]

this is the armor im inspired from by the way

cuz the reflection on the metal were just awsome

||for me||

[vocal vale]

oh hey i've made a drawing based on that kit too

[lost zealot]

oh really ?

[vocal vale]

yeah i wouldnt be able to find it though it was for a school thing and i didnt keep it

[lost zealot]

oh cool

[vocal vale]

basically jsut some more contemporary characteristics of milanese armor

and the thinner lower leg

slightly thinner breastplate

[lost zealot]

soo thats all ?

[vocal vale]

yeah, it looks pretty dang good to me

OH OH OH

IF YOU WANT EXTRA HISTORICAL POINTS YOU COULD ADD A COUPLE ARMING POINTS

like the strings that tie the armor to the wearer's clothes

[lost zealot]

thank you !

[vocal vale]

i know its just a sketch but the small details like that would be rad i think

[vocal vale]

which, by the way, half sword is a pretty good reference for

[lost zealot]

like the strings near the hosen and the chest ?

[vocal vale]

yes, the most prominent ones are usually on the very top of the arm harness where the shoulder armor ends

other than that they're kind of hard for me to name off the top of my head

probably a few around the legs?

oh my god sorry im making so many suggestions but

[lost zealot]

no problem, i need suggestion anyways

[vocal vale]

usually italian armor also had a small patch of chainmail under the hautegreave, where the knee articulation ends

and often as opposed to full sabatons would have a patch of chainmail over their shoes, too

[lost zealot]

hautegreave ? whats that ?

[lost zealot]

game accurate ?

[vocal vale]

ADDITIONALLY it was in italian fashion to wear shoes that were mismatched in color, like black and red or white and blue, to show one's own colors

[vocal vale]

the little triangular shape under the knee defense

if my memory serves me

[vocal vale]

hm?

[lost zealot]

do you mind to giv me references ?

[vocal vale]

yes yes yes

if you dont mind, some of them may be from other artists because i cant remember the names of historical sources

[lost zealot]

giv me those gud gud references

[vocal vale]

what the larger couter (elbow defense) would look like

[lost zealot]

soo, this is the thing i should add to the hand ?

[vocal vale]

its what i drew in red around the elbow

let me find a gauntlet for reference though

as you can see it is made of only like 2 pieces

rather than the typical several on the other hand

[lost zealot]

hmm, maybe i'll stick with the gauntlet presented here

[vocal vale]

perfectly fine

the ones other than about proportions are more just about the typical fashions of the time and region and are by no means mandatory

[lost zealot]

ok

thanks dude 🥂

[umbral dagger]

armet sighted, fanboy engaged

[lost zealot]

yo @vocal vale, is this better ?

[flat warren]

i love car so much

[minor comet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1083351786305359912/1254858368607060068/ssstwitter.com_1719121534842.mov?ex=669ca3ad&is=669b522d&hm=cf85286fda26aa00f103dfdfd641a011eaa749cfcd8137f5468908779bb9452b&

[flat warren]

ultra greathammer?!

[lost zealot]

WE LOVE CAR ❤️

[hallow fiber]

We need at least 3 or 4 variants

[vocal vale]

i like it !

[hallow fiber]

Effigy of John the fearless of Burgundy.

He died in 1419, but the effigy was commissioned by his son in 1443, Juan de la Huerta started it but abandoned eventually it was Antoine le Moiturier who completed it between 1466 and 1469

(I deleted it a first time to double check the information)

I was mislead by the RMN website who mislabeled the effigy as being that of Philip the bold

This is the actual effigy of Philip the bold :

Made by Claus de Werve between 1406 and 1410

Different helmet

[vocal vale]

this is good evidence for bicoques functioning like early close helms

good find

[terse bronze]

that's closer to a great bascinet

[vocal vale]

grand bascinets dont open on the same pivot as the visor

close helms do

[terse bronze]

they kinda do sometime

[vocal vale]

i wouldnt even call that kinda

that's just straight up a different pivot

[terse bronze]

poopoo pee pee same difference it's a great bascinet

[vocal vale]

cope

[terse bronze]

yeah that's a 16thc armet/close helmet

well into the 16thc too

[vocal vale]

which has the same kind of pivot as a 1400s bicoque

i wish i could find a better quality image of this but i believe this depiction supports that kind of opening mechanism too

and in many depictions the helmets simply reach down too low to open like an armet

Which is why I think they probably opened like close helms did......

[terse bronze]

Yeah if you stick bicoque to those german examples yes they did open like close helms

i think there's like a couple that opened like armets but it's far from being the most common

[vocal vale]

yeah i think some definitely did open like armets but i think the more common method was probably a close helm mechanism

i just like overclassifying stuff really

[velvet wedge]

pointy falchions

[hallow fiber]

She is eating her own child

[short ice]

happens to the best of us

[left coral]

Ahlspiess Duel

In the back another ahlspiess

[vocal vale]

bit late for the game

[left coral]

Ahlspiess from Austria, 15th century

[vocal vale]

what am i looking at here

[left coral]

shoot right, gotta open the images

kinda like this, but I wanted to find actual examples of them from period art

[vocal vale]

very cool

[hallow fiber]

The other side has clearer lines which is useful for understanding the structure of the helmet

[vocal vale]

anyone got a diagram or something similar showing where a typical suit of armor would have arming points?

1400s

[lost zealot]

shaded version

[vocal vale]

lookin dang radical man, love it

[lost zealot]

thanks !

[fleet junco]

1484

[fleet junco]

"gimme my money"

[vocal vale]

is that a hussite cannon and a hammer?

[toxic breach]

Too late for this game!!!!

[oak spade]

true but damn he is dripping

[toxic breach]

Erm

[hallow fiber]

2 centuries too late.

The game as of now wouldn’t even make sense in a 17th century setting

[minor comet]

https://youtu.be/jD3b1s-s9bk

[wraith dew]

Dragoons are quite shit most of the time imo lol

[terse bronze]

No

[vocal vale]

What is it then, pal?

[terse bronze]

Just a gun with a well to ignite the powder and a spike/hook to get more stable against a ledge and such

[fleet junco]

and the blunt end on the top is used as iron sights as you could see

i dont think it would be really effective as a hammer

[vocal vale]

look like hammer

but not hammer

it okay

[robust tendon]

Is this thing similar to all'antica armor

period fantasy?

given how it's on an effigy it doesn't seem unlikely

[vocal vale]

why would it be

its not really super complex its just like a simplified version of a grand bascinet

[hallow fiber]

No, this is way too precise, an artist can paint an all’antica armor and benefit from the lack of precision to insert extravagant shapes and fantasy details, in that very specific case it the details are so precise it absolutely certain the sculptor was handed a helmet from the duke’s armory to use as reference

[vocal vale]

pretty sure this helmet has the same opening mechanism

[hallow fiber]

Compare it with the helmet of Philip’s effigy

Look at the amount of effort put on the padding, how can one even doubt a second that those helmets were sculpted with the help of a physical object used as reference

Same goes for the John the fearless effigy

[tired pasture]

dragoons…. yeah….

[humble pagoda]

What is this shield called? The one that fits on your arm sideways.

[terse bronze]

Pavise

[pure basin]

All the knights are gathering in this channel

Must tell the leader

https://tenor.com/view/crawly-meme-gnome-gnomes-gnome-vs-knight-gif-12137898001001661497

[thin tiger]

Any of yall know where to find good armor websites, I would like to build a kit from halfsword

Something like the half knights

[arctic linden]

Lord of Battles

Windlass Steelcrafts/Museum Replicas

Kult of Athena

Get Dressed for Battle

Armor Venue

[spare field]

depends on what you are looking for

if its accurate gear then you will want to contact a smith on facebook

if you want just some decent stuff off the shelf and a prepared for the fit to be off, then lord of battles is not that bad

[thin tiger]

I would want to build this set or something close to it

But nobody has the correct jack chains

[spare field]

there was one set but its discontinued,

again depends on what you want this for

do you plan on reenacting or do you just want this for around the house/ ren faires

[thin tiger]

Doesnt really matter, I just wanted to collect an armor set

[spare field]

look up bohurt armor makers on face book, and they can whoop out thos jack chains pretty easy but they may have a waiting list,

[thin tiger]

Ah thank you

[spare field]

gauntlets you would probably have to have made as well, the rest lord of battles will have stuff that should work as long as your about average size

[thin tiger]

Im 5.8 18 male

[spare field]

the sallet you can find "ugly" ones off the shelf but the pretty ones are custom made and expensive

[spare field]

then your probably good

spes makes decent gambesons on their historical market place

and historical enterprises or medieval design will have good hose

they will also make shirts and braies

[thin tiger]

Do you have any armor? Or partake in burhurt activities?

[spare field]

I have armor but its for harnischfechten

[thin tiger]

Harness fencing

[spare field]

yes

[thin tiger]

There is a local hema gym nearby where I live

Thought about joining

But I dont have a car

[spare field]

I would recommend you do, but we are starting to get off topic

:P

[thin tiger]

Thank you for the help

[spare field]

np the arms and armor subreddit discord and the pursuing the knightly arts discord also will have lots of resources specifically for buying and obtaining armor based on your budget

[thin tiger]

Awesome, you are like a wise sage pouring out wisdom towards us noobs

[vocal vale]

https://www.medievalcollectibles.com/product/15th-century-medieval-jack-chains/ ?

off the shelf but will not cost very much

[spare field]

I actually own those lol, they are not bad at all

[vocal vale]

thats rad

[thin tiger]

Probaby just because this will be my first set im not going to go all out on high quality

[spare field]

just very light and mostly good for stoping you getting your arm cut but do not much at all for stoping it from hurting

[vocal vale]

i would be tentative to buy an entire arm or leg harness off the shelf because if your proportions arent just right you'll just waste money

[spare field]

yeah, lord of battles leg harness is good if you fit

[vocal vale]

do you use off the shelf stuff for harnischfechten?

[spare field]

no, but everything I own is second hand though

[vocal vale]

cool, cool

[spare field]

the cuisse are the biggest issue the leg harness was for bohurt and they expected there to be thicker padding underneath so they are slightly too long and slightly too big around but they dont hinder me, which is the important part

[tired pasture]

in a perfect world i could have a full plate harness with everything i want

[civic glade]

Can you link these? Dm if necessary

[torpid urchin]

Is this a Russian painting

[hallow fiber]

Why would it be?

Nothing specifically Russian about it or am I missing something?

[torpid urchin]

I saw the guy holding a stick and thought it was a Russian thing because it’s also in this Peter the great painting

It was kind of a dumb assumption

[hallow fiber]

It’s just a baton, it’s a sign that one is a military commander.

[sullen charm]

BLUD is not goering

[robust tendon]

I wouldn't use armor sites at all

like web stores

most of them have either mediocre reproductions or just straight dogshit repros

if you want the good stuff you'll need to comission from a smith

[weak abyss]

that goes absolutely unessesarily hard

[vocal vale]

that’s awesome

is it based off anything?

[toxic breach]

Yes, the Albongo sallet found in 2012 dated 1468

[vocal vale]

i think you’re pulling my pizzle young man

[toxic breach]

Yes I just lie all the time idk why

[vocal vale]

i never understood what those gold "goggles" were meant to be

what are the black circles for?

[terse bronze]

decoration

they're precious stones

[vocal vale]

oh thats cool

while i have you here, pauldrons / "double gardbraces" that have that ridge in the middle, i remember them being called something-"tail" gardbraces

do you know what im talking about

its been bothering me for like an hour

i thought it was swallowtail but i dont think it was

[terse bronze]

doest ring a bell

[vocal vale]

argh

[terse bronze]

do you mean haute-piece?

[vocal vale]

i

've always called that a passgarde

it's like the ridge on the front of the pauldron's reinforcement

[vocal vale]

half of these are used like everywhere in europe at different times or are strange misinterpretations

also way too early for the game

[terse bronze]

That's one ugly and wrong drawing

[vocal vale]

bishop helmet goes hard tho

[terse bronze]

yeah i mean it's just a regular greathelm used by anyone like you stated above

but with a mitre

13th century helmets
one is (based on) 14thc, and another is 10thc

"italo-norman"
based on an italian fresco that was never under normand control

[vocal vale]

french one seems like a weird interpretation of one of these

[terse bronze]

It's not a weird interpretation per se since it's literally a greathelm with a bevor, which was a thing but the drawing style doesn't help

[terse bronze]

Also the left one is portugese btw

[vocal vale]

i didnt figure it was based off anything particularly french based on how english, german, italian, and italo-norman were decided

[vocal vale]

are there ones with bevors that are that close to the face?

the only ones i've seen are a little below or very undetailed

like that

[terse bronze]

well they're from 14thc manuscript so they can't have so much detail in them

[vocal vale]

Tru

[terse bronze]

You can see that the artist that drew the helmet chart thing really barely even worked on it

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1055560006407303188/1265431124444713104/greathelm_with_bevor_2.png?ex=66a17c12&is=66a02a92&hm=e80225d96e0903461ee01e2f3d68cba3a8138ecf9e9bee755894d943c955d98c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

cuz it's obviously based directly on that one

and saw the fleur de lys and went "french!!!"

but a little more research would have told him it was portugese

He's lucky that bevored greathelms were definitely popular in France tho

Eol's drawing featuring bevored gh

[vocal vale]

they look very rad

[iron ledge]

Does anyone have any references of plackarts being worn over gambeson without a breasplate, as is shown in the game? I was under the impression that it was a bit of a re-enactorism.

[toxic breach]

Not a gambeson
But plackart worn over chainmail

@iron ledge

[iron ledge]

splendid!

[toxic breach]

Even if plackarts werent worn over gambs I'm sure it's not that far fetched an idea

[iron ledge]

Someone on another server sent a good image, I'll repost it here

pic goes hard ngl

comically large rondels are also rather cool

[upper lintel]

c c

[civic glade]

I really dont get the plackart over gambeson thing

Its like, why not wear a breastplate instead and actually protect the important stuff in your upper chest

[iron ledge]

I suppose you take what's there

My suspicion is that this is munitions armour and they've split the breastplates and plackarts to cover more people

[civic glade]

Ahhh, that actually makes sense

[terse bronze]

Could also be a case of breastplate under some a covering with a placard on top

Also to note that this ms shows a lot of all'antica scenes so

[terse bronze]

https://opac.kbr.be/LIBRARY/doc/SYRACUSE/16995140
Image 464

[iron ledge]

Thanks 👍

[tepid edge]

what's the name of the polearm with the large blade at the tip?

the one they had added for playtest

[robust tendon]

halberd/vouge

though iirc vouge is just a general term for polearm

[vocal vale]

holy cow that's actually a very good point

[lyric light]

Likely cloth over cuirass and under plackart

[fierce reef]

Armors of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania XIV-XV century, lamellar seemed to be the preferred option by infantry and cavalry units, even depicted in the seal of Duke Kestutis 1297-1382

[upper lintel]

wrong time period

still cool as hell but yep

[sullen charm]

nerd alert!!!

[upper lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/black-nerd-black-nerd-gif-26919340

Not gonna hide it,its true

[wet spade]

holy based

[ancient pivot]

Hot

[robust tendon]

A pretty nice sallet

[minor comet]

it an armet!!!!

[robust tendon]

A visor does not define what a helmet is

you can see the distinctive sallet "tail" and shape

A historical piece and a reproduction similar to the sallet above

[flat warren]

Is there an image with this full harness?

[minor comet]

thats a very soyboy "sallet'

[tired pasture]

dunno

[minor comet]

erectile disfunction sallet

[tired pasture]

probably just generic english harness from around the time

[robust tendon]

yeah it's english

[silver ravine]

ooo milanese helmet

[tepid edge]

@minor comet soy or no?

[minor comet]

1 is gigachad supreme mogger 3000

2nd one is like an old expired deflated balloon

[tepid edge]

what would it have been in it's prime

[terse bronze]

"trying to stick to the timeperiod set by the devs is for nerds!"

[sullen charm]

https://tenor.com/view/pon-gif-15097379091171620462

[terse bronze]

you totally got me there!

Fucking spaz

[sullen charm]

well erm i predate you so im correct

you dweebazoid

[robust tendon]

it ain't worth

he just baiting

[short ice]

we would appreciate it if you didn't needlessly harass people trying to share references to fit the game's time period. you're really not doing yourself and favours by being a knobhead to folks trying to share their passion and knowledge for the game.

[terse bronze]

fr

[short ice]

if you continue, Gnome, I'll just have to mute you. We don't condone childish behavior in here. We aren't the roblox discord.

[sullen charm]

damn

all i said was nerd alert

[short ice]

you're being childish, grow up and let people enjoy their passion for the game.

[upper lintel]

all you did.... w-was m-make m-me c-cry 😭 😔

But dont be mean like tat

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-eating-rice-gif-26188689

[short ice]

don't worry, he's muted now. If he comes back in a day to continue, he will be gone for good.