references♥_1450-1470

[golden ingot]

Yea, I work as a combat medic irl

All of our textbooks feature real images so it’s kinda hard to find references outside of that

[turbid shadow]

Interesting

Im pretty sure the HS team doesn’t really use actual gore as references [believe it or not]

[golden ingot]

I noticed

Which is why I figured it could be helpful knowledge🙂

[turbid shadow]

I’ll talk to galaxy and see what he thinks, since he’s the effects guy, fiber man also works on the gore greatly

[golden ingot]

Thanks😁

[sullen charm]

they've gone on record saying they only use movies/games for gore reference

[golden ingot]

I won’t send them actual gore, just would like to provide real world input

Similar to this

[turbid shadow]

Talked to galaxy, he’s talking to the others, we’re waiting for a response

[fleet junco]

Willy needs more tough skin

His flesh is paper thin

[humble pagoda]

Where is this axe's origins?

[toxic breach]

Narnia

[south marlin]

France or italy

[fleet junco]

Europe

[humble pagoda]

[fleet junco]

@terse bronze do u know

Damn i forgot to remove ping

[golden ingot]

Interesting thing about fractured femurs, is that our quad muscles are so strong that they’ll pull our legs up and shrink said leg.🤔

[robust tendon]

st george gaming

[prisma raven]

Some Iberian examples of giornea under the placard.

[stuck pelican]

Insanely badass

[robust tendon]

ooh this is really cool

[prisma raven]

ikr

[obsidian sun]

Carpeted bathroom vibes

[toxic breach]

Cursed brig couter

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1470 - 'French sallet', Milano, Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien, Austria

ca. 1470-1480 - 'armour', Landshut, Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1470-1480 - 'equestrian armour', maybe Nürnberg, Kaiserburg, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

[turbid shadow]

ca. 1470-1500 - 'breastplate 1', South German, Stadthaus, Spittal an der Drau, Carinthia, Kaiserburg, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1470-1500 - 'pair of gauntlets', German, Kaiserburg, Nürnberg, Bayern, Germany

ca. 1475 - 'Schaller (sallet)', German, Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin, Germany

ca. 1475-1500 - 'sallet', Burgundian Netherlands or Italy, Koninklijk Museum van het Leger en de Krijgsgeschiedenis, Brussels, Belgium

ca. 1480 - 'celata con gronda', South German, Palazzo Venezia, Roma, Italy

ca. 1480-1490 - 'armour, partly supplemented', South German, Bayerisches Armeemuseum, Ingolstadt, Bayern, Germany

[humble pagoda]

What type of barbute is that?

[turbid shadow]

Its just a barbute

[humble pagoda]

ah ok

[golden ingot]

Something a little gross, can’t send photo reference, but the game shows intensities flying out upon evisceration, this can happen sure, but it’s more likely to hang out. When our abdomen is eviscerated our intestines will immediately close the hole due to constant pressure being held in our abdomen

It’s also like a wet flesh balloon sealing the hole, rather than a string flying out completely

[bright sleet]

How do you know? First of all, and second of all, send that shit to my dms now (just joking, dont do that)

[turbid shadow]

Sir Humphrey Blount (c.1470), Kinlet, Shropshire

Robert, Lord Hungerford, c.1464. Salisbury.

[golden ingot]

Seen it happen🥴

Also the body only has about 5-6 liters of blood in it

So about one of these

[bright sleet]

i that woldemort?

[bright sleet]

where?

[humble pagoda]

What helmet is this called?

[terse bronze]

Sallet

[prisma raven]

Sallet

[humble pagoda]

But what type though?

There's a huge variety of sallets.

[prisma raven]

sallet

[terse bronze]

sallet

open face sallet idk

it's a sallet

italian that's for sure

[prisma raven]

indeed a sallet

[terse bronze]

Looks a lot like some specific bascinets with those proto sallet shape kinda

[humble pagoda]

What does "Proto" mean? Sorry for my ignorance.

[terse bronze]

you know the word "prototype" ?

it's proto+type

a type before the final type

so proto = first example of something

in this instance "proto sallet" is a helmet before sallets that look like one

[humble pagoda]

Ahh okay.

[terse bronze]

wacky explanation but hope that clears things up

[humble pagoda]

It certainly did.

thank you!

[terse bronze]

badass np

[bright token]

English armour?

[turbid shadow]

Yuh

[stuck pelican]

Today I learn that they also used those types of sallets

[golden ingot]

I’m a combat medic🫤

[bright sleet]

nothing but respect to you

[dull acorn]

Damn thats crazy

Hopefully it was a swift death 🙏

[bright sleet]

What?

[dull acorn]

Wrong reply

Was trynna reply to the h0lysp guy

Mb king

[bright sleet]

It's aight

[golden ingot]

Eviscerations aren’t lethal

It just looks bad

[dull acorn]

Oh phew

Good for them i hope they're doing good

[tepid edge]

I wonder what will happen if I search up "katana" in this channel

of fucking course

[toxic breach]

Can he bend his right arm considering the size of that couter? It'd look fine if it tapered down more where the strap is

[terse bronze]

Yes

Since it was made to be worn and fought in it can, in fact, move

I think the one in the drawing is a "floating" couter aswell

[humble pagoda]

Are the small holes on the top of the tricep area there so you can put the strings through it?

[terse bronze]

yes

[humble pagoda]

What is the specific name of those guards?

Also this one too

[stuck pelican]

That pommel is beautiful

[turbid shadow]

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84522067/f58.item

[torpid urchin]

I don’t think they have a name, but I call them guard rings

[vocal vale]

^

closest thing i could think of is a “ring guard”

[void stream]

What was this helmet supposed to be?

and there's this one too

[terse bronze]

weird ass bascinet

it's all all'antica anyway

last one kind alook like that one polish bascinet with a brim

[robust tendon]

bascinet

both of em are bascinets

last one looks very close to this one like bossk/kevlar said

[robust tendon]

you do also see similar ish designs in a certain swiss depiction

these doohickeys #references♥_1450-1470 message

though the forming around the chin suggests it’s just a weirdly drawn bicoque/armet

as opposed to a bascinet

[prisma raven]

The Hours of Catherine of Cleves. The Netherlands, Utrecht, ca. 1440.

[vocal vale]

are those still called "bascinets"? i thought they were called pickelhaubes

[lost zealot]

is this the bascinet used in the baltic ?

[torpid urchin]

When did they start using that term?

[lost zealot]

the pickelhaube term ?

[bright token]

i like the red cross thing he's wearing

[terse bronze]

It IS a bascinet

[lost zealot]

what type ?

[terse bronze]

Very probable yes

[lost zealot]

ah

alr

[terse bronze]

Wdym what type

[lost zealot]

forget about that 💀

[terse bronze]

Alright

[torpid urchin]

Yes

[lost zealot]

Circa 1800, by the Prussians

feel free to correct me if im wrong

[lyric light]

Need

[turbid shadow]

The helmet can be a little to late for the game, but not sure

[terse bronze]

the counter design goes hard

remind me of a burgundian firestricker

[turbid shadow]

Ikr

Arms and armor are by radoslaus the armoure, I haven’t posted everything yet but I’ll save it for later

I want to be the silly bicoque man in half sword

[stuck pelican]

mmm yummy

[bright token]

Was it around 1480 or 1490s when some Italian and Flemish style armour didn't have plackart over the breastplate?

[terse bronze]

Cuirass
Italian or Flemish

ca. 1490–1500

[bright token]

Yesss

I saw a painting of a knight wearing this breastplate but couldn't remember the exact date so I was guessing it was around 1490s

[terse bronze]

gotta be careful because at the end of the century, in like the last decade flemish also had a similarly shaped style of cuirass with a placard, it's jsut that the placard took the entire breastplate

[bright token]

Do you have an example?

[bright token]

Wait is it like this one?

[terse bronze]

yeah a bit like that but with the placard covering the entire bp

but that's the idea

mb I was thinking about innsbruck style

[bright token]

Ah Innsbruck 😄

[terse bronze]

yep

1485-95

then these ones, left is sometimes refers to as "fishtail placard" popular in spain and flanders

the right one is 16thc tho so it's whatever

[bright token]

Recently I learn that out there was another style of German armour made in Cologne recognizable with "X" fluting on the plackart and was popular in Scandinavia.

[terse bronze]

show?

[bright token]

Let me find it

blurry pic tho

[terse bronze]

i've seen many X engraved on armors before but because of the St. Andrew cross that many german lords used after the death of Charles the Bold

(burgundian cross)

[bright token]

Something like this

I learn about it from 15th century armour group on facebook lol

[terse bronze]

Uh, that's dope

my fav niche style is crayfish cuirasses tho

that shit look tight

[bright token]

Ooooo

Hell yeah more plate armour style

[bright token]

Was this style from around 1450s?

[terse bronze]

I think that's a tad early for it

[bright token]

i see i see

[terse bronze]

70s 80s is good iicr

[bright token]

Manifesting this will be in the game at some point

[civic glade]

The scaled tassets are magnificent. Whats the inspiration for these? Ive never seen them before

[turbid shadow]

There’s a lot of examples of them on manuscripts, here’s one

[candid dawn]

Oooboi thats a hot armor drop!!!!!!❤️❤️❤️❤️

[torpid urchin]

Can someone post a bunch of warhammer refs? Especially the ones with the rondel grips

[terse bronze]

waramma

[lost zealot]

waramma

[torpid urchin]

wamma

[stuck pelican]

I NEED this coating ingame

[turbid shadow]

Thanks!

[stuck pelican]

Funny bird helmet…

[civic glade]

What do you call those features you see in picture 7 on the apex of the upper thigh articulations? That type of metalwork decoration of points that ride over other plate, i think I’ve also seen similar work at the apex of the placard where it rides over the breastplate

[bright token]

Who made this marvelous cuirass?

[turbid shadow]

alexy mokalensko

[turbid shadow]

not really sure

[bright token]

Is he the Art of Steel armourer?

[turbid shadow]

yea

[bright token]

Oooo

I haven’t check his page in a while, thanks for the info! 🙏

He’s one of armourers whose works I often use as reference while drawing

[shell halo]

We need all

[turbid shadow]

no lol

[shell halo]

Shush we need all weapon we can

[terse bronze]

no we don't

[shell halo]

Why not I think that is dumb

[terse bronze]

Because not all weapons match the game's setting

[shell halo]

Just wishing less content ???

[terse bronze]

I'm wishing for more coherent content

what's the point of having a khopesh next to a zweihander

(except destroying the game's coherence)

[turbid shadow]

this game is trying to be historical, devs aren’t gonna be squashing everything from every period/region

[shell halo]

I dunno development seem pretty fucking dead tbh seem like update take long shouldn't be asking for too much I get nothing gonna prob gonna come out of this

[terse bronze]

check this guy out (I think it's 1490 sadly but errmm looks cool)

[turbid shadow]

Lmao what

[turbid shadow]

Repost that on da thread

[terse bronze]

oh true

first lemme fact check

[shell halo]

Dunno man doesn't seem to be much on this game

Is there any other way to play anything else but the demo on steam ??

Maybe been missing something

[terse bronze]

Wait apparently it's dated 1485

yippie!!

[turbid shadow]

You can play the itch io version which is an older one

It includes the “arena mode” which you’ll see anyways on the update

With overhauled combat, gore as well as many other things

[shell halo]

I will check it out but the demo concept of the game interest me more than what an arena could offer me

Were does the game is supposed to be going gameplay wise ??

An arena type game or something like the demo ?

Sorry for the question I didn't find much about the game tbh

[turbid shadow]

Arena, void, Adventure

[shell halo]

Ohh

Extremely interesting

Especially any type of adventure

Just the demo was adventure enough for about 9 hours lmao

[terse bronze]

the adventure mode will consist in you going to the nearest bakery to get some cool pastries

[shell halo]

I'd play any type game with this combat and gore mechanic

[turbid shadow]

The demo is only a playground for you to test out the arms and armor and gore

[turbid shadow]

Probably yeah lol

[shell halo]

If I can stab some bandit while going sure

Or any ruffian wanting the edge of my weapons

[turbid shadow]

You’ll be able to get drunk on the tavern, and so many other things

[shell halo]

You just sold me for life

[terse bronze]

i saw what just got deleted...

[shell halo]

Where can I pay them more money for developing

[terse bronze]

at my paypal

[turbid shadow]

Kickstarter!

[shell halo]

Ilink ?

[turbid shadow]

Still not out tho

[shell halo]

And I did too

What was it hmmmm

[turbid shadow]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/halfsword/half-sword-gauntlet

[shell halo]

I can't even throw all my cash at the project yet wtf are y'all doing

[turbid shadow]

Soon soon, once they finish the update It won’t take long

[shell halo]

Fucking bad devs, with this good of an idea and me not being able to blindy throw cash is scandalous

Joke not bad dev I love this game for what it is as of yet

And like I said any adventure where I can loot weapons and deliver the law to some ruffian or any sort of enemies cough cough torture

I'll put notification on any announcements and WIP, those devs that I know almost nothing as of yet about made a life time fan if they deliver any kind of game with everything i played with in the demo lmao

[turbid shadow]

Yeah the potential for this game is insane

[shell halo]

Ayo was that coop

[peak lava]

yes

[shell halo]

.......

[terse bronze]

looked like AI shit tbh

[peak lava]

i meant to post that on game chat

it is ai

[shell halo]

I hope not

Fuck

Lmao

We'll coop would be fucking amazing

[peak lava]

sadly isnt planned

but there is split screen mod

you have to use controller though

[shell halo]

Insane you say? They could do so much and I hope they will be supported enough for that

I genuinely want this game to survive and as of yet it does seem like as scam lmao

[turbid shadow]

Split screen is very possible

[shell halo]

Even split screen I'll get the mf at my home

Lmao

[turbid shadow]

What makes it look like a scam?

[shell halo]

We'll always on fence with kickstarter game like this tbh

Cause I kinda genuinely want to give money

I don't know the devs Teams or anything as of yet tho

[turbid shadow]

There are multiple interviews

That give you an idea to who they are and what they want for the game

[shell halo]

And I hope this project is not just some cash grap and that they want to go to the end, can I see them where ?

I'll follow this game to the very end tbh, with just playing the demo is the sentiment I have

[turbid shadow]

https://youtu.be/dfQLPkRfjyk?si=9dUnYOAq89g4StKK https://youtu.be/z6o-5YZ8JG8?si=uTpuNP3EBZxUiCwW https://youtu.be/IMD6Gl-VHGg?si=KAFnJkdigY3BAiXd

[shell halo]

Thank you thank you

Like "as of yet" and I touch some wood, with just the demo my sentiment is something like "if there is 1000 fan, I'll be one of them, if there is 100 I will be one of them, if the is 10 I will be in those 10, if the count falls to one it would be me" typa shit

[fleet junco]

Black armoe

[turbid shadow]

Honestly

Its really possible to have black armor currently

just depends if ivan wants it

Right now

[tepid edge]

Wouldn't painted armor be somewhat historically friendly or am I bugging

[terse bronze]

yo buggin

painted armor actually seem to be quite rare in opposition to covered

[lost zealot]

yo folks, i have a question, is there any iconography that have this chainmail skirt depticted ?

[turbid shadow]

yes

[terse bronze]

[MSS_Ott.lat.1417] Historiae Philippicae (1460)

there's also some maille skirts attached directly to the placard's lames in italian art and you even see the attach-holes on surviving pieces

[lost zealot]

Thx dude

[turbid shadow]

*** 1460-1490 France, BNF NAL 3115 ***

[civic glade]

Me when i fucking get you

[smoky topaz]

Judo with weapons

[civic glade]

Its funny

Fiore says like ‘were going to start with grappling, go to daggers, rhen swords, then polearms” and then he talks about grappling, and then he talks about knives which is actually 70% grappling, and then swords which is maybe 30% grappling, and then polearms which is another 50% grappling

Grappling just never goes away and is always a big part of his plays it seems

[smoky topaz]

grappling is essential

[turbid shadow]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23209

[fleet junco]

Advant armor not advanting

[humble pagoda]

How did they make an iron bar flat enough to forge a helmet

[terse bronze]

beat the shit outta the ingot until it's flat

[humble pagoda]

Ah ok

How did the armourers get the blueprint to the helmets they made, or did they just look at one and make it from that?

[terse bronze]

Cool question

probably some sort of quick sketch they made after specificity asked by the client (if any) ?

some more experiences probably would know how to make certain helmets without guides but idk

[humble pagoda]

So thats why most helmets aren't symmetrical 🤔

[civic glade]

Nothing hand made is ever completely square or completely symmetrical

Just the nature of craft

[stuck pelican]

Such beautiful armor sets. Did they seriously not use chainmail to protect their face though?

I feel like a weapon of any kind to a big exposed face is not the way to go

Or do they change it out for something better in actual battle

[humble pagoda]

I would think they had the open face helmet so the person could see easier

But I may be wrong abt that

[stuck pelican]

Of course, but their neck is exposed entirely

Their lips, their chin, their nose, their temple

Espeically the eyes..

[humble pagoda]

I am suprised there isn't a Bevor

Maybe they had a chainmail coif or gambeson one? It would be dangerous without it

[terse bronze]

Exactly

[terse bronze]

would you be surprise to learn that the IMMENSE majority of helmets throughout the entire recorded history are "open faced" ?

Seeing and breathing is VERY important

[stuck pelican]

Then why were those germanic sallets so popular with the flip up visor

Same with bevors

I know they had something similar to bevors which just protects the shoulderblade and neck region

Why not just use that?

[terse bronze]

sometimes, for some, even more important that protecting it because of how "comfortable" it is and you can defend yourself

[terse bronze]

just sallet btw

quit the "germanic" crap

[stuck pelican]

D:

[terse bronze]

And because it's a good design

you can flip the visor up and have the bevor up, bevor down visor up, ect

give you a lot of freedom and comfort

[stuck pelican]

Why didn't they install that onto this type of helmet then?

Incase they needed that bit of protection at the time

[terse bronze]

You can totally wear a bevor with a barbute

but the whole point of a barbute is to not have a visor

[stuck pelican]

And the point of a barbute then?

[humble pagoda]

Would knights get claustrophobia and have panic attacks in those closed faced helmets like Armets?

[terse bronze]

to have unrestricted breathing and sight while still having something that covers your head and sides

[terse bronze]

Claustrophobia idk probably but that'd be weird for a knight to have claustrophobia and fight yknow, or at least unless they have to

But panic attack yeah completely

fucking cry and all that's for sure

It's war and you're killing someone or fighting for your life in hand to hand combat

[humble pagoda]

I wonder if it got worse when guns came along

[terse bronze]

Maille bevors exist but only seen in germanic sources, also bevors are a separate piece, this helmet could totally be paired with a bevor if the wearer wanted

[terse bronze]

the maille gorget is obviously missing

[stuck pelican]

Ah, then I don't see that much of a problem with it

[terse bronze]

because there's no problem ?

[stuck pelican]

I mean, having your neck entirely exposed would be a problem lol

You loose that problem with the bevor

[terse bronze]

and the gorget

[stuck pelican]

Course'

[terse bronze]

more angles on this sallet

[humble pagoda]

I wonder what created that long cut on the side of the helmet

[terse bronze]

Probably natural deterioration

or a massive ass blow but idk

[humble pagoda]

Yea, I also see some dents in the front of the helm

[terse bronze]

" The damage on the right side may be impact damage , at least that is what the museum was told by the Musée de l'Armée in Paris "

[humble pagoda]

Ohh

Its a french helmet?

[terse bronze]

Sallet in the Spanish style. These are very old photos taken in a Museum in Montpellier , France . The museum was located at a military site (École d'application de l'infanterie)

Could be southern French or Spanish

[humble pagoda]

Ah okay.

[stuck pelican]

I love how it flutes out on the sides like that,

[terse bronze]

flares?

[humble pagoda]

why is chainmail sometimes worn under a gambeson?

[terse bronze]

in fact it was mostly worn under gamb

than over

i don't really know why but if I had to guess is it's actually more protctive to have the padding over the "harder" surface + makes the maille less heavy since it's being "compressed" and held in place by the gamb instead of only resting on your shoulders (even less with a belt) and that maille works best when tailored to your body, so having a maille shirt that would go over your "standalone" gambeson would be a bit flabby and more expensive since bigger

[humble pagoda]

Ohh I see now

[humble pagoda]

I don't know what helmet that is

Kettle of some sort

[fleet junco]

It do be a kettle

[terse bronze]

https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-475

[lusty crescent]

yoo alfred wsg

[humble pagoda]

wsg

[stuck pelican]

@turbid shadow Were capes a big thing on armor?

I hardly seen any

[vocal vale]

to my knowledge they fell out of fashion in favor of surcoats which fell out of fashion in favor of just armor

though i have seen depictions of italians with late tabards (basically just big ponchos) that i guess you could consider a double sided cape or cloak

[stuck pelican]

What about all those decorations, I cant remember their names

I remember garniture was one of them

[vocal vale]

can you elaborate

[vocal vale]

garniture isnt really decoration

[terse bronze]

i've seena few plumes capes but in tourney contexts

peacock ass plume cape

[stuck pelican]

peacock ass 😭

[vocal vale]

garniture is a term for a harness with interchangeable or additional parts for different situations, though i do find myself saying "harness WITH garniture" over the term "garniture"

toby capwell just calls it garniture though so i guess that would be the right term

thats a tangent though sorry

[stuck pelican]

I thought it was just

fancy fancy dressing and stuff applied to the armor

[vocal vale]

naw naw naw

you might have it confused with "gilding"

[stuck pelican]

Mann I got that info from you 😭

[vocal vale]

if you can prove it then i'll apologize lmao

garniture is like armor with DLC

[stuck pelican]

Our dms 💔

But we people learn

We get better

[vocal vale]

So True

[stuck pelican]

Im wondering

What did like.

italian Man-at-arms use

[terse bronze]

wdym

[stuck pelican]

What was their general weapon choices

[terse bronze]

lances

[vocal vale]

^

[stuck pelican]

Lances are expected

Polearm?

No?

[vocal vale]

lances are polearms

[terse bronze]

yeah i mean just like any men at arms

[stuck pelican]

I kinda view it more as

[vocal vale]

weaponry wasnt really as regionally divided as armor was

[terse bronze]

lances, polearms, swords ect

[stuck pelican]

Horse weaponry if anything

[stuck pelican]

Ahh

What about like weapon stylization?

[terse bronze]

yeah and if anythign the style or said weapon changes but not the weapons themselves

[stuck pelican]

I know french had their own things

Italians had falchions

But im not sure if it was just them

[vocal vale]

cant think of anything off the top of my head

[terse bronze]

no everyone had "falchions"

/messers

[vocal vale]

the only really italian stylized weapon i can think of is a beidana but thats more for peasantry

[stuck pelican]

Aint messers and Falchions different

Actually

How different are they even

[terse bronze]

it depends where you draw the "difference" like

[stuck pelican]

From what I remember theyre both single edged weaponry

[terse bronze]

they are constructed differently but both are single edged swords

"swords"

[stuck pelican]

Messer is just more curved typically from what ive seen

But I honestly cant be sure

[terse bronze]

not necessarily

i've seen some straight messers

sometimes it looks like a longsword blade on a messer hilt but, single edged

[stuck pelican]

Yeah, but less likelihood, no?

[stuck pelican]

Oh

[terse bronze]

yeah but it exists

[stuck pelican]

So it has to do with their hilt?

Where did the reverse falchion originate from

Because I love those things

[terse bronze]

reverse falchion?

[vocal vale]

ITALIAN ARMOR DUMP

[stuck pelican]

It got a bit point at the end

[terse bronze]

oooohhh that

[stuck pelican]

Curves inwards towards the edge

[terse bronze]

france, england i think i've seen some in germany and italy aswell but i'll have to double check

Langes Messer, Southern Germany, circa 1500

[stuck pelican]

Why is it that, some italian harnesses have like gorgets, but some just have coifs

[terse bronze]

send pictures of what you call gorgets and coifs

[stuck pelican]

Gorget, right?

[terse bronze]

bevor

[stuck pelican]

I thought bevors curved outwards towards where the face is itself

[terse bronze]

uh

you're thinking about it too precisely

a bevor is a bevor

no matter if it slightly curves differently that others

[stuck pelican]

Then whats the difference of a bevor and gorget

[terse bronze]

gorget

bevor

[stuck pelican]

Ohhh, coif is full head

[terse bronze]

yes

[stuck pelican]

I thought it was just neck 😭

I fucked up

[terse bronze]

it's easier if you speak french lol

coiffure means haircut

lol

so coif.. head...

gorge = throat
gorget..

gorgerin

[stuck pelican]

throaterarmor

headarmor

@terse bronze What other words translate in french?

That you know of that are armor related

Or even weapon

[terse bronze]

lance pops to mind

i'm pretty sure falchion too

[stuck pelican]

Im guessing it means like

Stick

or something

[terse bronze]

no it means spear

[stuck pelican]

Hm

[terse bronze]

from the gaul word lancea (for spear)

[stuck pelican]

So they call spears also lances

[terse bronze]

yes

[stuck pelican]

Alright

[terse bronze]

glaive

[vocal vale]

-large usage of armets
-open faced helmets like sallets and barbutes used otherwise
-more armor coverage towards the left, with enlarged couters, longer gauntlets, and more encroaching pauldrons all on the left side
-mitten gauntlets highly favored
-pauldrons that overlap each other on the back
-additional maille under the poleyn, possibly to minimize vulnerability when the leg is bent
-fairly exposed right armpit to increase flexibility
-far fewer plates involved in the articulation of the leg harness, plackart, and pauldrons on average compared to gothic harnesses - gives many italian harnesses a much smoother overall look
-notably the shoulder defenses are very similar to english armor of the time, and a few italian harnesses use distinctly english looking grand bascinets

[terse bronze]

straight messer
Geschichte von Ritter Peter von Stauffenberg, Straßburg 1483

[bright token]

Look like arming sword with knife hilt lol

Love this armour

Pic aint mine

[terse bronze]

now this is a harness fitted for a king like richard III

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_aYeutZiyQ&pp=ygURcmljaGFyZCBJSUkgYXJtb3I%3D

[toxic breach]

Not true, actually my harness

[terse bronze]

chat is this real

[stuck pelican]

[torpid ridge]

if I remember correctly Tobias Capwell excavated the armour set right?

@terse bronze

[terse bronze]

excavated ?

what harness are you talking about

[stuck sigil]

Ah yes, buried armour

[terse bronze]

That's fine, it's just that I don't remember reading anything about Tobias Capwell unearthing a complete harness

[stuck sigil]

I dont think I've ever read bout him digging anyhing big up tbh.

[torpid ridge]

He moved the coffin with the armour of Richard III to another burial site, or did the coffin not contain it?

[terse bronze]

i'm pretty sure Richard III burial site didn't contain any armor

he was found burried under a parking lot

[robust tendon]

the maille man

[tepid edge]

isn't that already in the game?

I know we got many many sallets

but I'm sure I seen that specific one in game

[turbid shadow]

not enough

more

More of everything

[tepid edge]

Is a bascinet too much to ask for

or an armlet

I dunno which is better for the era

[turbid shadow]

armlet, ah yes

you will see both

Bascinet is probably gonna be a great bascinet

as I don’t think there’s surviving examples of like a normal bascinet like the ones you’d see on the late 14th century

[tepid edge]

those already come with full neck protection right?

seems like it

[turbid shadow]

Yuh

[humble pagoda]

Ohh I forgot

[flat warren]

armlet 😼

[humble pagoda]

armlet 😎

[robust tendon]

i think they were still popular in like 1400-1410, maybe up until 1420

maybe if we get a 1390-1410 dlc

[turbid shadow]

nah, it'd have to be 1370-1420 i feel

[toxic breach]

They confirmed Halfsword is going to cost $85 USD ...sigh

[turbid shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/gaslighting-gullisout-jonathangullis-toriesout-gif-8209068701399431500

[robust tendon]

maybe

[turbid shadow]

*** The Great Burgundian Chronicle - Switzerland, 1481-1484 *** somethin to keep this place alive

[humble pagoda]

What did a ship from the mid 1400's look like?

[clever bramble]

Such great painting! I couldn't find the artist name do you know it?0

[fleet junco]

No

[lost zealot]

bro was like, Whats da plan boss ?

[turbid shadow]

I think it's Hans Multscher?

Christ before Pilate (detail-1) 1437

[clever bramble]

thank you the full picture is awesome.

[turbid shadow]

Absolutely

That’s a really neat depiction of kastenbrusts on the right

[clever bramble]

this dude?

[turbid shadow]

yeah

[tepid edge]

Probably either carracks or galleys being the largest with other smaller vessels in the mix

[fleet junco]

Painting made by kondrad witz 1440

Konrad

[turbid shadow]

pretty sure this nice piece has been sent before

[fleet junco]

every armor has been sent here

cant find anything good on pinterest 😦

[turbid shadow]

you can always look for other places

[humble pagoda]

Look at the Metropolitan Museum stuff

they got a lot of good references

[stuck sigil]

I want hounskuls They should still be popular in 1410~1430

[turbid shadow]

game takes place on 1430-1480, and if you can find some surviving examples of them that are on 1430 it would be interesting

[stuck sigil]

I mean we have good condition examples to this day, maybe an old armoury surplus at the time wouldnt be too unrealistic

[terse bronze]

🤦‍♂️

[stuck sigil]

also we do have great bascinets from the same time period as the hounskul dated to 1446 so it isn't unrealistic to say some hounskul visor and bascinet combos were comletely phased out

[stuck sigil]

bro, we have 1940s guns in 2024, why is a 1410 style helmet in 1430 not fair ?

[terse bronze]

Not nearly as comparable

[terse bronze]

the "good condition helmet" we have left to this day are for the most part high end examples that are just higher quality overall and kept in armouries, also heavily restored

[stuck sigil]

armament inheritance is not that uncommon throughout our history tho

[terse bronze]

It is

Idk why ppl just talk about that there's like nothing to back it up it's just made up

There's examples of older helmets surviving down multiple decades and being tempered with to suit the contemporary style and preferences but it's rare

99% of the time if you're a soldier in 1430 you're gonna buy a helmet made in your timeframe

not go dig up whatever you think youll find

[stuck sigil]

its just after the transitional period or near peak plate armour period, I dont think ditching a whole style is as cut clear. kettelhelms are even seen much later even tho it both preceeds the bascinet and sallet.

[terse bronze]

And you'll notice how the style or said kettles change with the time

a "bascinet" in the later 15thc would just be a sallet (i count barbute in it)

[stuck sigil]

yes bascinet slowly turned to armets and so on, skullcaps to sallets

[terse bronze]

Already by the early 15thC, while bascinets were still around, you already start to see "proto-barbutes" and sallets popping out

[terse bronze]

First example of armet 1390s

you're thinking about it too linearly

Arguably bascinets gave sallets

since skullcaps gave bascinets

(but they were still around cuz it's the simplest of helmets)

[turbid shadow]

14th century stuff is always interesting, I'm hoping we'd get an expansion of the 14th century later on because its such a rich period

[terse bronze]

fr

[stuck sigil]

bascinets WITH visors got examples from 1340s

[terse bronze]

so

?

[stuck sigil]

it's the transitional period and the moost pprobable source for the armet is a form change of the bascinet

[terse bronze]

Of course i'm not saying it's not

but can't say it really "slowly changed into armets"

one italian mf just thought about enclosing his bascinet down the chin

and still have verveilles and aventail on it

[stuck sigil]

anyway, Im ust asking for a hounskul visor which were wildly popular either came with or added later on in many examples

[stuck sigil]

Great Bascinets 1360s

[terse bronze]

Source?

[stuck sigil]

THEN someone wanted that to hug the chins

[terse bronze]

So?

Great bascinet are pretty different from armets ngl

[stuck sigil]

I dont know a surviving example but the timeline of visual sources like paintings and literary descriptions of great bascinets and armets fall the former being popularised before the later was ever acknoledged

[terse bronze]

If we go just a bit back in time for the game's timeperiod we could get a hounskull armet

thatd be awesome

[stuck sigil]

the closing mechanisms on some were very similar in how they were represented

[terse bronze]

1396

[turbid shadow]

for now we'll have to cope in with some bicoques

[terse bronze]

awesome

[turbid shadow]

Classic Harness

[stuck sigil]

we need the visors, thatd be awsome(no visibility in first person tho)

[terse bronze]

That's not true btw, great bascinet start "appearing" very late 14thc, early 15thc

[turbid shadow]

I wonder how it would've looked if it wasn't black tinted such as the first product

[terse bronze]

by slowly replacing the maille aventail by plate

[stuck sigil]

shiny /

[turbid shadow]

that won't really matter

we'll probably get them

seeing how they are perfect for the games period

[stuck sigil]

paintings, yes, agueably because they were not very common but they did exist just after the popularizatioon of the bascinet

[stuck sigil]

I want those beehive looking ones wyh

[terse bronze]

yeah ok you're just making shit up

We have earlier depictions of normal ass bascinets with separate plate gorgets/collars so if greatbascinets existed we would have depictions

[terse bronze]

but they did exist just after the popularizatioon of the bascinet
So in like 1310s ? lmao

rhetorical question btw don't answer

[stuck sigil]

so it has to be hinged on to be part of the helmet huh

the early great bascinets had no connected gorgets but they were designed for the bascinet

[terse bronze]

Not necessarily, since you see those collars with kettles aswell

especially in spain i noticed

[turbid shadow]

camacurt reference???

[terse bronze]

fr

[stuck sigil]

are we talking about the full gorgets or the chin hugging type ?

[terse bronze]

the standing collars

[stuck sigil]

oh right, the same thing then

I havent seen them with a kettle tho, where are they depicted, I need to learn more

cause that sounds hella cool

cause kettles I've only ever seen them with the german style gorgets

[terse bronze]

what do you call "german style gorget" ?

[stuck sigil]

the chin hugging style

[terse bronze]

send a picture

[turbid shadow]

the destroyers

[terse bronze]

I have a book from the guy with the covered bp

[turbid shadow]

ooo

man I really need to buy the books

[terse bronze]

and one from toby ofc

[stuck sigil]

@terse bronze the gorget in the 4th pic with a pointed slit kettle, idk where I saw that but that's the best description I have cauuse I don't have a picture

[stuck sigil]

they are majestic

[terse bronze]

That's a bevor and bevors aren't "german" in style particularly

Also that's a sallet not a kettle

[turbid shadow]

my reaction when you said slit kettle

[stuck sigil]

I know what a sallet is, I'm just talking about the bevor but it was front and back in construction

[stuck sigil]

I know, its heresy but eh

[turbid shadow]

we can make the same guy almost on HS

[terse bronze]

italy, 1320s

[stuck sigil]

oh nice, where is this from ? who painted it ?

they do look kinda goofy ngl

[terse bronze]

Milan, Italy
housed at the Bibliothèque Nationale un the name "BNF Français 755 Roman de Tristan"

[turbid shadow]

pretty sure I posted this image before in full but thought I'd repost it because of how cool it looks

[stuck sigil]

this one always reminds me of the Leia buns 💀
starwars ruined this for me

[turbid shadow]

idk much about star wars so

[stuck sigil]

I do love the surcoat or what it kinda looks like

[terse bronze]

star wars fan since day 1 and idk i'm fine with it

it's obviously rondels so

[turbid shadow]

we need more rondels

simple as

[stuck sigil]

small rondels are fine, it's just this one where it looks the same as the head in size

[stuck sigil]

fluted rondels on the helmet would look pretty fancy

[terse bronze]

Not really a kettle but there's this one too

Thibaut de Pomollain, France (Church of St Denis, Coulommiers, Seine-et-Marne) ~1330

[stuck sigil]

kinda looks like a norman helm

[terse bronze]

Jesus Christ

i'm gonna ignore that

[turbid shadow]

im gonna be looking like this in half sword bth

[terse bronze]

Don Ramon Folch , Viscount of Cardona (Poblet Monastery, Conca de Barberà, Catalonia, Spain) ~1322

[stuck sigil]

ITS THE RIDGE'S FAULT

[terse bronze]

ridge = normand / no ridge = not normand ?

[stuck sigil]

layered clothing would be nice

[terse bronze]

me as fuck

[stuck sigil]

not what I mean

[turbid shadow]

that's planned!

[terse bronze]

there's no "normand" helmet

[stuck sigil]

best devs

[stuck sigil]

I know but still, that's the best keywords to find the helms with the same feeling onsearch engines.....

[turbid shadow]

schekens and what not are something that ivan and frank would love to have, as frank has said there will be layered clothing multiple times on an interview if I recall

[stuck sigil]

schekens ?

[turbid shadow]

schekes

[terse bronze]

Schecke singular
Schecken plural

[stuck sigil]

I still dont know what that means

that's a new word

[turbid shadow]

time to pull up 9 images

[stuck sigil]

thanks, Fencer

[terse bronze]

the vest thing middle and right guy has

[stuck sigil]

cotehardie ?

[terse bronze]

cotehardies are different

[stuck sigil]

is it padded ?

[terse bronze]

no

[stuck sigil]

hmm so just clothing

[turbid shadow]

I really would also love to see giorneas

[stuck sigil]

I agree

[turbid shadow]

https://ramsay2710.artstation.com/projects/1x21N2 @terse bronze bth you seen this art station before?

his stuff actually looks very cool

[terse bronze]

you haven't i'll take a look in a sec

[stuck sigil]

do I see brass or gold rondels....

[turbid shadow]

yeah?

[stuck sigil]

do we get that later on ?

[turbid shadow]

sure why not

[stuck sigil]

I wonder if we will get seperate leather gloves

sounds ppointless but the fashion value of the game would be a bit higher

[vocal vale]

little early for the game but the brigandine decoration still stands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6yrJ4zOSXg

maybe less so the retention chains

but the centerpiece is awesome

[fleet junco]

Woah brigambine

[torpid urchin]

EVERYONE STAR THIS

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/874078017209663488/1094748861924376616/malding.gif

[bright token]

Sallets

Anyone got some more pic of armet/bicoque with visor like this one?

It looks like the helmet i saw on old scooby doo cartoon lol

[lost zealot]

from the haunted mansion one ?

looks like it

[vocal vale]

i really like these frogmouth-y grand bascinets

[terse bronze]

that's a sallet

no i'm kidding hehe

gotcha

[sullen charm]

Anybody know what helmet this is?

[robust tendon]

just a kettle

i'd call it a "bell kettle" but idk if that's a historical name

[vocal vale]

that seems appropriate

[torpid urchin]

kcd guard helmet

[vocal vale]

TRUE

[opal ember]

this would go so hard

though it's not very time accurate

a mask like that would defo look good

[vocal vale]

the 1400s is like the exact time people werent really putting faces on their helmets

there might be a few extant grotesque visors from then but i have none that come to mind