references♥_1450-1470

[sullen charm]

shit he isn't there

[robust tendon]

very cute art and a good choice of period

Luv me late 14th century

[short ice]

me af

[humble pagoda]

What gauge steel is that helmet made of?

[tepid edge]

Bro thinks it will stop headshots

[vocal vale]

i love that helmet

[golden palm]

THE DWARVEN

[unkempt rampart]

Betwixt us

[sullen charm]

gooba*

[sullen charm]

it's just an armet with a wrapper

a particularly tall wrapper, sure— but it's just an armet

[lyric light]

hes talking about the ones depicted

[fleet junco]

Imagine kettle but bigger

[hybrid heath]

Best thing since sliced bread

[vocal vale]

the one in the effigy is a frogmouth

[edgy narwhal]

https://www.moddb.com/mods/dellarte-della-guerra/videos/newcastle8

[torpid urchin]

This is exactly how I draw these visors

[golden ingot]

This mod has so much care, I just hope they keep posting

[vocal vale]

ivan actually worked a bit on this mod

[edgy narwhal]

oh thats cool, what did he do?

[turbid shadow]

Armorrr

I thinkeh

[edgy narwhal]

neat

[vocal vale]

yep

both galaxy and ivan come from the modding scene, love to see that kind of stuff

[fleet junco]

What is fhis thing again

[turbid shadow]

which part are you talking about

[fleet junco]

idk

i remember posting it here

[vocal vale]

its

its armor

[fleet junco]

oh yeah

is the german person thing

[vocal vale]

[fleet junco]

add the demi paudrons

[turbid shadow]

A harness that was commissioned by a german man, that has the mixture of Italian And French sprinkled all over it, which turned into this beautiful harness

[sullen charm]

Germanic Noble commissioned this armor to an Italian workshop to be made "in the french fashion"

[vocal vale]

thats pretty cool

i like that

[fleet junco]

what were nobles doing

[sullen charm]

smoothie mostly

[short ice]

give me Flamberge Zweihander @sly trench I demand PRETTY PLS (or bardiche)

or bardiche pretty pls 👉👈

[sullen charm]

Out of the scope of the game

[short ice]

[sullen charm]

And bardiches are mostly out of the area (and sometimes scope) of the game aswell

glaives and vouges are cool tho

[vocal vale]

zweihanders are?

[sullen charm]

yes, in particular flamberges

[short ice]

the Flamberge technique started in the 13th century

[sullen charm]

Yeah ok sure buddy

[short ice]

became popular in the 14th

[sullen charm]

However simple greatswords are totally within the scope of the game

like here

[vocal vale]

oh yeah? explain this. flame bladed sword, right here

[sullen charm]

that's actually an enchanted chainscimitar ?

get your facts straight man

[vocal vale]

FUCK!

[short ice]

the technique was seen in the late 13th century German and Swedish blades supposedly, but it wasn't popularized until the 14th century

[sullen charm]

Yeah totally man

for sure 👍

[vocal vale]

[short ice]

sir if you just do a little bit of googlin you will see this

We are working off of records hundreds of years old, there's gonna be some inaccuracies when one record says it came from 14th century and one says the 13th

old sord

[sullen charm]

source: a little bit of googlin

[short ice]

what else do you want me to do blud, go to a library? A museum?

[sullen charm]

Anyway, the zweihanders you posted (the flameberge) ones just don't fit into the game

no need to argue

[vocal vale]

i cant even find any extant flamberges to figure any of this out as a 3rd party

[sullen charm]

Unironically yes

Both have websites you can use to grab sources

[vocal vale]

he is truthing

[short ice]

I am not going to a library

[vocal vale]

but it is hard for me to find anything on them, really, that comes from a museum

[short ice]

this guy is bonkers

[sullen charm]

https://collections.louvre.fr/ark:/53355/cl010117560

Like here for instance, from Le Louvre's website

[vocal vale]

like all im seeing are black and white photos and shit with no actual assisting links or references

[vocal vale]

ITS IN ANOTHER LANGUAG!!! THATS WHY!!!!

[short ice]

Blud you are fucking googlin shit

[sullen charm]

Literally used reverse searching without typing a single word

[short ice]

That is the consensus of what I was saying.

[sullen charm]

I'm actually looking at sources, and not making shit up on the spot and saying "uhh just google it"

[sullen charm]

So this one's dated around 1600 btw

[short ice]

this guy

[short ice]

No shit, it has fancy swirls on the hilt

it's built well and with curves

that is more modern than the 14tg century zweihanders you'd see

[sullen charm]

aka none

[short ice]

this guy

[sullen charm]

having fancy decor & curves isn't what makes it 16thc

it's actually moreso the flame design

just like with rapiers btw

[short ice]

alright yeah I'm done with this conversation

[short ice]

Cause that's one of the dead giveaways of a more modern zweihander.

[sullen charm]

You're just wrong

Bye

sworf

o

[prisma raven]

bruh, Bossk is right

[white fulcrum]

you actual fool jesus christ

[white fulcrum]

if you're unwilling to do any more than a google search then what basis do you have that is better than bossk's lmao

and no one is telling you to physically take yourself to a library or museum, but damn dude at least take a look at some museum websites

[white fulcrum]

you've provided not a single source for this

so something tells me it's a fabrication begotten from a misinformed google query!

i mean a little bit of googlin

[sullen charm]

source:

[stuck pelican]

did u atleast try to look up the year theyre from

[fleet junco]

add the skully wully cap

[turbid shadow]

Gironea my beloved, Im sure I pronounced it wrong

[stuck pelican]

@sullen charm what was the point of that wobbly flamberge sword

[vocal vale]

giorneas or are they 2 different things

[edgy narwhal]

Mostly showing skill of the craftsman but there was also the belief around that it would cut better

[vocal vale]

isnt there some stuff about it vibrating less on heavy impact

[edgy narwhal]

Please enlighten me what a 14th century zweihänder looks like

[vocal vale]

im pretty sure the dead horse has been bruised enough

[edgy narwhal]

Shush, i am making gulash

[turbid shadow]

So Ive just realized something brutal, something detrimental

The archduke sigismund harness will probably not make it to the game

Just by a 15 year difference I believe

[edgy narwhal]

Oh yeah that one is quite late, but at least the heavy fluting is not out of the scope

[turbid shadow]

Because the period was changed to 1430-1475

Man I’d kill if we can make the game 1440-1490

We wouldn’t really miss much with 1430

[edgy narwhal]

1430 seems a bit early tbh

[turbid shadow]

Yeah

[edgy narwhal]

1450 would be better tbh

[turbid shadow]

Hmm

Perhaps yeah but i think there’d be some cool stuff in 1440 if Im not wrong

[vocal vale]

and of course after 10 years everybody would've DISCARDED the armor prior

SCOFF!

[edgy narwhal]

But in my opinion it would be best to set the game strictly in one decade, such as the 1470s

[edgy narwhal]

Yes an no

[vocal vale]

i think keeping it broad can appeal to historical accuracy while adding much more variation for more laid back types that dont much care

[edgy narwhal]

There is depiction of using older gear, but it was seen as unfashionable

[turbid shadow]

I just would love these

Complex designs

And I think you can recognize that model heh

[vocal vale]

hehe

archduke

[edgy narwhal]

The noodle man

Morbhau

[turbid shadow]

I mean, I think we can make a suggestion stating our reasoning

Of why the time period would be this and that

And see what Ivan thinks

[vocal vale]

i personally think keeping the game within a 70 year timeframe is fine honestly

late-early + mid + early-late kinda shit

[edgy narwhal]

That type of fluting is not out of period though

[turbid shadow]

I believe you’re right

[vocal vale]

just make the pieces, as they progressively get more recent, get more polished

inverse being true and the less in fashion kinda stuff would be all banged up or dull looking

[turbid shadow]

You know what this reminds me off

Gonadanns suggestion about the dlc that makes you play as the father of the main character you’ll be in HS

[edgy narwhal]

Please no, taking care of armour is not that hard

[turbid shadow]

Yeah

You’d probably simply just have to ask someone to polish it for you

Obviously would come to a price

[edgy narwhal]

Or do it yourself

[turbid shadow]

Yep

[vocal vale]

yeah id be up for that kind of stuff too

[turbid shadow]

It would suck if said armor was just stained in shit and you can’t do anything about it

[vocal vale]

its like distressed jeans

[turbid shadow]

His suggestion is actual gold

It’s really cool

I wish we get something similar to it

[edgy narwhal]

I said it before but andrej pfeiffer-perkhun does polish his armour by himself. And just look at it

[turbid shadow]

God damn

Flaw less condition my boy

[edgy narwhal]

Jup jup

[turbid shadow]

That shit reflects

Thats how polished it is

[edgy narwhal]

He reasons that this is the peak condition that most warriors should strive for

And there are a lot of mentions to keep armor in shape. As well as depictions of mirror polish

[turbid shadow]

I think half sword will have the same mind set

[vocal vale]

insert eyeroll that isnt tooooo mean

[turbid shadow]

I’ll pull up a quote in a bit thats by Ivan

[edgy narwhal]

Now now

He does this as an experiment to show it is possible all by yourself. Most warriors of lower standing would not have this much armour to polish of course

[vocal vale]

armor so shiny it blinds passersby

[edgy narwhal]

Haha, neat thats andrejs picture as well

(Not andrej in the pic tho)

[edgy narwhal]

That reminds me, I hope we get more clothes variation as well

[turbid shadow]

we should be

[edgy narwhal]

Especially that hood

[turbid shadow]

you see, what I'm hoping is we get the helmets and stuff that can be found in #work-in-progress

[edgy narwhal]

Schecke! Schecke! Schecke!

[turbid shadow]

Yess

[vocal vale]

brother customization is what i live for

[edgy narwhal]

Schecke important, schecke good

[edgy narwhal]

Saaaaaaaaaaaaame

[turbid shadow]

ivan likes them

we should get them

[edgy narwhal]

I will be inseperable from my pc whenever the smithing update hits

[turbid shadow]

I need more stuff

[edgy narwhal]

I want to make every variation of sword known to man

[vocal vale]

WHAT

[turbid shadow]

there's also this sallet with a visor that u can raise

[vocal vale]

SMITHING

[edgy narwhal]

And i want to color my clothes

[turbid shadow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1082232813698424884/1127583984654753872/BB.gif?ex=657eefeb&is=656c7aeb&hm=e548301226abf963254c8b4e8a3a8d49b629a2e955f2c3efa385dcdfb0290360&

[vocal vale]

WHAT

[edgy narwhal]

Yas

[vocal vale]

im

im

im

im gonna

[turbid shadow]

you're gonna wait

[edgy narwhal]

Uh oh

[vocal vale]

[edgy narwhal]

Hes gonna expode

[turbid shadow]

da

honestly don't think we'll bet getting all that good shit next update

let me count it real quick

[edgy narwhal]

God i really hope the more armoured foes will use more kettles

More variation is king

[turbid shadow]

I believe we still have 48 helmets that aren't in the game yet

[vocal vale]

i live for helmets

[edgy narwhal]

Considering the amount of variation he already made I will gladly wait whatever time it takes

[vocal vale]

i will die WITH helmets

[edgy narwhal]

That the opposite of the plan

[turbid shadow]

that's without counting the current ones we have

and the plumes

[edgy narwhal]

How many new ones are in the next build?

[turbid shadow]

we aren't sure yet

there's more actually now that I think about it

[edgy narwhal]

Nice

[turbid shadow]

these are 3 new

#halfsword-chat-⚔ message counting from this

[edgy narwhal]

Wait are thy tho

Pretty sure they are already in the currebt demo

[turbid shadow]

I dont think so

[edgy narwhal]

Ignoring plumage

[turbid shadow]

I'm not counting the plumes

[vocal vale]

i recognize that thin-brimmed one as being based off one in the metropolitan

[edgy narwhal]

I was literally wearing them yesterday

[turbid shadow]

This is the third one

[vocal vale]

Why is he in a garage? Is he stupid?

[edgy narwhal]

Ok it is a little different than the other one

[edgy narwhal]

Yeah, thats hot

[turbid shadow]

so with all of that

51

perhaps even more that we don't know of

[edgy narwhal]

I suppose you have looked at these helmets more than me lol

[turbid shadow]

well to be fair, I've seen that video a lot

[edgy narwhal]

Same tbh

[turbid shadow]

I'm also suspecting these but I'm not so sure

[edgy narwhal]

Now those are alreaey in I am sure of that

[vocal vale]

same

that one on the left is my current in game favorite

[edgy narwhal]

Well considering it gives the most coverage

[vocal vale]

i just think it looks dope lol

the little lip it's got and the thin visor is cool

[turbid shadow]

I have exported the models for half sword so I suppose I'll take a look at them?

[edgy narwhal]

I prefer open helmets looks wise

[edgy narwhal]

Damb, hes a pirate

[vocal vale]

im a diehard closed helmet man

always been a fan of masked and full helmeted characters

idk why i just think the human face looks lame on a character

[turbid shadow]

I'm not really using them for modding more or so to see how many polygons does half sword models have

[edgy narwhal]

I was just joking xD

[turbid shadow]

this is how every half sword sallet looks like when their just mushed together

[edgy narwhal]

Well the meta helmet i like to use rn is that one closed sallet that still lets you have the regular view in 1st person

[edgy narwhal]

Lol

[vocal vale]

use barbute in first person

[edgy narwhal]

How tf do you even get that, regardless the sallet and bevor has better coverage than that

[vocal vale]

add armorsmithing where you can staple rondels and lames to any part of any piece of armor as you see fit

[vocal vale]

destroy the head of a barbute wearer

wearing it in 1st person makes you entirely blind

[edgy narwhal]

Hmmmm rondels

[edgy narwhal]

Uh oh

[vocal vale]

barbute + bevor looks dope though

[edgy narwhal]

Oof, that is possible?

[edgy narwhal]

Damn thats goofy

[vocal vale]

i like it though

it brings a sort of fantasy to the half sword that the ivan dont like, ya feel?

[edgy narwhal]

Living dangerous here

[turbid shadow]

the army

[turbid shadow]

now let me search for these two

well you guys appear to be right

I always manly get my sallet from the 5th boss

[edgy narwhal]

Damn you guys are orcs xD

[vocal vale]

i always mainly get my sallet 30 hours of playing the game ago

[edgy narwhal]

I usually just wobble around until i have full plate

Then start fighting

[turbid shadow]

you know I just steal one of the polearms from the 5th boss too

[vocal vale]

i always use the longest sword i can find and i always fight with patience and refined motion

which is the reason why i die 80% of the time during the peasant phase

[edgy narwhal]

The axes are only good when both of your wrist arent shattered though

[edgy narwhal]

Spear all the way in peasant phase

[turbid shadow]

I just use the two handed axe

super easy to deal with the spear folks

[edgy narwhal]

The small twohanded one with the langets?

[vocal vale]

ill play half sword again tomorrow

im still sick so im out of schoo

[edgy narwhal]

Usually spears are a good counter for spears, at least for me

[edgy narwhal]

Rip, get better soon

[vocal vale]

i got strep throat so hard it burns to breathe

appreciate the wishes though my friend

goodnight

[edgy narwhal]

God dam

Cya

[turbid shadow]

@edgy narwhal you kickstarting HS?

or will you just be awaiting the game

[edgy narwhal]

I would if I would trust myself with money lol. At this rate i would already be subscribed to at least 10 patreons lol

But I wilm buy the game when it comes out

[turbid shadow]

oh that's fair because I was taking a look back onto the dev log which had some footage of some rewards for the kickstarter, their still revising it so its not fully complete yet

[edgy narwhal]

I am considering backing it though

[turbid shadow]

some bits of it

I like the images that they are using for it, though I think they'll switch it with 'something else

[edgy narwhal]

Yeah neat

[turbid shadow]

the king tier is really interesting though

[edgy narwhal]

I wonder if said armour is done allready

[turbid shadow]

Nah, I don't think so

the hall of fame sounds cool though

[edgy narwhal]

Wait the king role is limited lol

[turbid shadow]

I'm instantly getting it lol

hopefully

[edgy narwhal]

No fuk you

I will get it first

[turbid shadow]

I'm preparing my card at the instant

well

its limited out of two

[edgy narwhal]

Then again gilded armour kind of sounds cooler

[turbid shadow]

grahh you can't get all

[edgy narwhal]

Gold shiny

[turbid shadow]

I'm really liking the hall of fame idea tho

[edgy narwhal]

True

[turbid shadow]

shows you the backers who backed the game

[edgy narwhal]

Woukd be cool if we could get custom coat of arms displayed there as well

[turbid shadow]

oh yeahh

similar to what mordhau did

they had people make their own coat of arms

[edgy narwhal]

Neat I didnt know they made them themselves

[turbid shadow]

which is why most of them.. are rather questionable

[edgy narwhal]

Uh oh

Is there a list loo

[turbid shadow]

not sure

but The crusader larp stuff is one of the backers coat of arms

[edgy narwhal]

oh lol

[turbid shadow]

But to be fair

I think having a custom coat of arms system would be cool as hell

Let me suggest that actually

Imagine putting your own coat of arms to shields or something like that

[edgy narwhal]

yes that would be so great

[turbid shadow]

https://discord.com/channels/1043854763189600337/1194940736337084416

Turned it into a thing

[edgy narwhal]

is character progression planned btw?

[turbid shadow]

Yes

I’d assume so

[edgy narwhal]

would be cool to get physically more fit over time

[turbid shadow]

It would be cool if you can go to a fencing school

Or some shit like that

To practice it even more

[edgy narwhal]

yeah maybe even changing flexibility or animations of strikes

though thats maybe dreaming to far

[edgy narwhal]

imagine they just add a modern gym

[turbid shadow]

Jacked willie

[edgy narwhal]

also hair when

I want flowing locks

[crimson bough]

Maybe learning different grips for different weapons

[edgy narwhal]

yeah maybe configuring stylistic choices, Italian, german or other prominent styles. Or even teaching the player himself how to strike well

[sullen charm]

devs plz add this !!!

[robust tendon]

the palate cleanser

❤️ english style plate

[sullen charm]

i'm not gonna lie long lames and GB goes hard

[robust tendon]

armstreet lookin ass

long lames? Not familiar with the term

i assume it is the tassets below the cuirass

[ancient pivot]

lames are just segments of articulated armour, in this case referring to the fauld/skirt

[stuck pelican]

Italian dagga..

[civic glade]

Imagine how dazzling the sun glint would be

I never really got the fascination with the flamberge technique. It seems like a liability in the form of ornamentation, not suitable for a battlefield impliment

For one, each and every inside angle will act as a stress riser for the blade to snap at, and for two the convex edges will be agonizing to sharpen

[edgy narwhal]

well apparently they worked more or less the same as straight edges, but overall they were a short fashion which could also be because the use of Warswords was very limited in battle. Nonetheless several other cultures created wavy blade profiles for traditional weapons, notably the southeast asian kriss and some indian swords

[civic glade]

An interesting distinction, the wave of the kris seems more like a straight edge that bas been distorted, whereas many flamberges present more like a straight edge that has been cut into, although i doubt that was how they were actually formed. Compare and contrast:

It seems more a liability in cases like this example of the flamberge than in the kris

[edgy narwhal]

not always, we do have surviving warswords that have wavier blades and kriss with straighter blades as well

[civic glade]

Of course, premodern artifacts are diverse as a rule

[edgy narwhal]

also it should be noted that not everything on made for war had to be purely functional either

[civic glade]

In this kris, the wave is smooth enough not to concentrate stress, while each wave in this flamberge has a very sharp fossa across the blade from each wave, which seems like theyd be stress risers, and its not the only example ive seen

Perhaps the limitation of the flamberge fashion speaks to its liability?

[edgy narwhal]

well I would not say that as warswords in general disappeared very quickly at the same time

[civic glade]

An example like this without that kind of fossa seems less likely to be a liability

[edgy narwhal]

overall fashion and tactics played a bigger role

[civic glade]

True enough

Is the flamberge technique limited to expression on war swords?

[edgy narwhal]

certain rapiers had them as well as far as I know

but those seem to have been a separate fashion a little later

[civic glade]

Do you guys have any sources on how the dark silvered armor finish is achieved?

[short ice]

Supposedly if you parried a Flamberged weapon, it caused unpleasant vibrations throughout your weapon, which was one of the technical applications of the Flamberged weapons. It did cause the blade to have less structural support though due to the waviness

[civic glade]

Im finding plenty of examples of them in my searches but no word on how it is done

[short ice]

I wouldn't personally know though because I was not a knight who personally used Flamberged weapons in the heat of battle

sadly

it definitely seems like it'd be more of a "hey my sword is funky" thing

[civic glade]

It seems to dark color is acquired by oxidizing silver, but how is the silver applied to plates as large and homogenous as a single piece breastplate for instance

[short ice]

honestly, dwarves.

that's my best guess.

[civic glade]

In modern day we can use electroplating, but it seems like that may be difficult in 14th c nuremburg

[short ice]

you have a fair point I think they may have had a little trouble doing that

[edgy narwhal]

do you mean blueing?

because that is a chemical process

[edgy narwhal]

do you have examples of what finish you mean

[robust tendon]

Probably blackened with regular steel accents

the black and white style you see in around the 16th ct

[civic glade]

Well i had assumed the deep blackened finish on many pieces was from silver oxide rather than more chemically involved process

I assumed chemical blues or deep steam blackening were not possible or common for them

[edgy narwhal]

Certain processes were possible. But if you are talking about artistic depictions, most of them do not portray any blackened armour and rather are an attempt to show reflectiveness. Some of these depictions in manuscripts are indeed tarnished silver, but those were shiny in their days

[civic glade]

Do you know what processes in particular were or could have been used?

[edgy narwhal]

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/dect/hd_dect.htm

Blueing and browning were used in 15th century western europe

[vocal vale]

bro's got the gibbon harness

[civic glade]

In modern use, bluing isnt a specific process but rather a constellation of processes which achieve similar effects. At any rate, the article doesnt elaborate what processes in particular are used

It might be more fruitful to turn to tradesmen rather than academics for this. High accuracy reproduction armorers might have a better idea for the specifica

[unborn tartan]

There's a lot of possible methods, many of them involve chemicals (like bluing). I am unsure if any of these were used in 15th century Europe so take it with a grain of salt.

To get black or dark armor you could leave it black from the fire, or do a kind of rust finish, this was done by the Japanese, they blackened things like sword guards by letting it rust, rubbing off the rust only leaving thin surface rust, stabilizing it by boiling it (this makes it black), and then repeat it a few times (?). Another way could be to heat up the armor and burn on oil.

[robust tendon]

I don’t think the rust method was used but the heating and burning oil i think was

There were also alternative and cheaper methods used by the less wealthy to blacken it but that wasn’t quite as long lasting/permanent of a solution

[fleet junco]

Make colorful armor

[sullen charm]

Scandinavian greatswords

[robust tendon]

very cool

I always figured big swords like these were a later thing, like 1500s and very late 1400s, where you see zweihänders

beyond of course longswords

[sullen charm]

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.32864.html read more here

[edgy narwhal]

I mean these are mid to late 15th century

[robust tendon]

when i say very late i mean like 1480-1490

[edgy narwhal]

well you just said late

nvm I misunderstood

anyways quite big warswords, even bigger than those scandinavian ones, have been used since the late 14th century

[robust tendon]

I wouldnt be surprised if they had em even earlier

I mean there are examples of two handers, well one and a half handed swords, since like the 13th century

Probably ceremonial though if they did, most people in that period still used shields

[edgy narwhal]

there are long two handed swords used by the sassanids as well

[edgy narwhal]

I find the term ceremonial a bit problematic in this context. Ceremonial implies some sort of lesser function to these objects, when on the contrary a lot of these even later in the 16th century were very functional.

[sullen charm]

i like big swords that basically serve the same function as a banner

[robust tendon]

fair point

i think the development of really good plate armor is something to consider though

Shields were essentially universal and definitely a very crucial tool in battle, prior to plate armor which became the shield

Hence why two handers are less common, leaves you open to arrows etc

in full plate beyond like a gunshot, no ranged weapons can really affect you

[edgy narwhal]

well it really depends on what you consider a twohander, when a lot of the early ones were mostly slightly longer and with a slightly longer grip as well

[robust tendon]

A weapon that requires two hands to wield

Not a sword that you can switch between with

[edgy narwhal]

well then these early swords would not be defined as twohanded

[robust tendon]

Suppose so, idk where im going with this in hindsight

[fleet junco]

Can we maybe get more eisenhut and kettles

[reef thicket]

Silly cat thing

[fleet junco]

Twenty twenty two so ive never saw it

Anywho tanks

[sullen charm]

Here are some bad attempts at coats of arms on mobile

[vocal vale]

i like the second one but the background needs a bit more spice

[sullen charm]

Yeah, art isn't my strong suit, any suggestions?

[vocal vale]

just look at some examples of real life COAs to get an idea of composition and simplicity / complexity

[sullen charm]

Makes sense, I'll do it once I'm back home on my pc

few ones I made

[civic glade]

How do you design these?

Oh i just saw the watermark lmao

[golden ingot]

My preferred website as it is free and creates random ones as well: https://azgaar.github.io/Armoria/

You can get pretty complex with them too

[vocal vale]

ooo

[sullen charm]

Yee that one's pretty nice but i found the website to be abit counter-intuitive tbh lol

[golden ingot]

In what sense?

[fleet junco]

add this historical animal

[smoky topaz]

you want cock in game?

[fleet junco]

of course

[exotic jacinth]

https://youtu.be/e3XB2SuHBrk?si=ehgmj5v7s12RBs3J

The way the blood flows and the skull gradually caving after he starts wailing on it.

[vocal vale]

i like that painting

[prisma raven]

Cool Spanish Capecetes

[turbid shadow]

odd

[vocal vale]

but cool

[turbid shadow]

not really

weird torso

[vocal vale]

that too

i think he's just a big dood

[sullen charm]

It's just misshaped

[robust tendon]

looks poorly put together

[reef thicket]

Kinda disagree, just big guy

[sullen charm]

Extremely poorly put together

You can be big or tall and still have a kit that doesn't look like a bunch of trashcan parts scotched together

the thick ass gambeson underneath surely doesn't help

But tbh it looks like it's for buhurt so

[short ice]

I like the hounskull that this man is wearing, it really brings out the shape of the helmet.

[short ice]

oh. I selected the wrong picture.

whatever. I'm keeping it as the chicken.

it fits better.

basically the same shape as a hounskull.

[sullen charm]

it is a hounskull

just on a great bascinet

and of the round type

[short ice]

I was planning on sending a picture of a hounskull but

chicken had plans instead

🐔 got them fat thumbs lmao

[sullen charm]

Hounskull just refers to the visor

[short ice]

Yee

What I am confused about, check this out

You think this hounskull was added after?

look at the rivet

[sullen charm]

Idk

[short ice]

Me and some friends were discussing this, weren't too sure

[sullen charm]

could be

or not

[short ice]

it's from the Wallace collection if ye wanna check more out

[sullen charm]

could be original, like someone who replaced his klapp by a side pivoting visor

or just some modern weirdery

[sullen charm]

i know

[short ice]

Yeah we weren't too sure when discussin

[short ice]

I lied it was me I put the rivet there

it's my hat

[sullen charm]

" Two types of visor were worn on bascinets during the late fourteenth and early fifteenth centuries. One form, often referred to generally by the wonderfully onomatopoetic German term Klappvisier, involved the visor being attached to the bascinet skull by means of a single pivot set centrally on the brow. In the second form, the visor moved up and down on a pair of pivots, one on either side of the skull. A hole in the brow of the Wallace Collection bascinet, filled with an old rivet, indicates that when this helmet was new, it carried a Klappvisier, and was later converted, undoubtedly during its working lifetime, into its present, side-pivoting form. "

from the wallace museum online entry

[short ice]

I love how theres only holes in the one side for him to breathe tho, throws off my OCD soooo bad lmao

[sullen charm]

can't risk having splinters or shit entering your mouth while fighting

[short ice]

I know but it bothers my OCD so much

[prisma raven]

Do you know where this is from, Bossk?

[short ice]

bless btw

[sullen charm]

Looks like it's from the schilling chronicles, switzerland

[short ice]

bossk is just a pit of knowledge

[sullen charm]

or maybe the Eidgenössische Chronik

I'll try to have a look a bit later

[short ice]

see like thats a word I can't even pronounce

[short ice]

I think he just put a curse on me

[sullen charm]

Couldn't find it with reverse search so gl finding it @prisma raven https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Swiss_illustrated_chronicles

[prisma raven]

cool, thanks🫡

[robust tendon]

the brow decorations augh

[robust tendon]

also never seen those besagews before

bit odd to have them in a somewhat rectangular shape

[robust tendon]

oo crescent shaped ones

very nice

[sullen charm]

they potentially are slightly curved rectangles but the artstyle make them appear crescent shaped

[vocal vale]

preetty cool

[tight sand]

goooooood daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

[civic glade]

Long words can be intimidating but German doesnt have almost any phonemes that arent also present in english

So if you just sound it out its usually pretty natural feeling

Its really tough when you have dyslexia like i do

I usually have to give it two or three cracks not to switch the sounds around in places

[civic glade]

i dont know anything about armor timelines

are the houndskull and the sallet contemporaries?

could one face the other in knightly battle?

[sullen charm]

yes but actually no but kinda

depends which type of sallet and which type of (i supposed you mean bascinet)

[civic glade]

bascinet with specifically houndskull visor

because i dont want the klapp

[sullen charm]

yet again depends on what kind of sallet

cuz they did somewhat coexist for a moment

[civic glade]

whats are early horizon sallets called?

what are they like?

[sullen charm]

they're called sallet

they're like open faced

but we talking like late 1300s early 1400s

[vocal vale]

hounskulls are present in manuscripts up until 1415, so it could feasibly be seen against open sallets and maybe maybe maybe some early visored sallets

but i'd say that's a slim chance

[sullen charm]

Yeah they did (bascinet-visored sallet) somewhat coexist for a brief period

However greatbascients stayed way longer so they definitely say each others

and you can have a hounskull on a greatbascinet

[sullen charm]

when the artist takes shrooms

[vocal vale]

"truuust me guys.... i seent it"

[civic glade]

what makes a great bascinet so great?

is it just bigger?

[sullen charm]

more protective

tradeoff of less mobility

[sullen charm]

Basically replacing the maille elements with plate, which increase its protectiveness but lower your mobility like freak mentioned (some can also be buckled to the cuirass, which fuck up your head/neck mobility, but the protection is unmatched)

[vagrant charm]

Great bascinets have rigid plate protection for your throat and the back of your neck

Great bascinet vs one with an aventail

Sometimes the back of the neck protection was a part of the bascinet too

There’s also this style that I haven’t seen that much

[tight sand]

god daaamn i gonna just

why its so cool looking

[vagrant charm]

Great bascinets are jus beautiful

[tight sand]

1000000000000%

i just love them soooo much

i hope we will see them in the game

[vagrant charm]

Prolly will since they were used for so long

Since the games set between 1430-1480 we definitely will

Even though that’s not his helmet it still fits the rest of the harness

[tight sand]

i cant find a video when the guy had gothic set and great bascinet and it looked so hot

[vagrant charm]

Are you talking about the pics I jus sent?

[tight sand]

no it was a duel video

the guy had the most cool looking harness that i have ever seen

[vagrant charm]

Another cool harness

[tight sand]

yeeeeeeeeeee

i find

IT

OMG he is sooooooo hot

[vagrant charm]

I’m pretty sure the sets English and not gothic

[tight sand]

ye u right

[vagrant charm]

Absolutely

Love his besagew

[tight sand]

btw almost all of them looked cool asf

in this video

[vagrant charm]

Yeah everyone’s kit was pretty well put together

But the great bascinet guy’s is my favorite

[tight sand]

10000%

can u plz send me the video

cannot find it

[vagrant charm]

Found it https://youtu.be/EpuqJHxeaTY?si=YD1xn7hnOChrU667

[tight sand]

big thx

[sullen charm]

outdated

[robust tendon]

ergh

This image

armor is not evolution, dingoid

And a lot of these are out of period ofc

[sullen charm]

makes me want to chug six beers and blow my brains out

[ionic cloud]

I just found it and thought it was neat i dont need insults i made no claims about it

[ionic cloud]

As if advancement it not built on established technology and practices

[robust tendon]

it is

But its not like these evolved from previous designs

[ionic cloud]

You dont think they took inspiration

I dont think its claiming evolution more so lineage

Incorrect as it may be

[sullen charm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/891845905668522114/1178730906182230046/caption.gif?ex=657735b3&is=6564c0b3&hm=e2a9f875fabb4dbf64f0ba8573d805e3d68631a60273e5bdb94f7cb2c9001ac8&

[robust tendon]

They came about after new technologies came

[sullen charm]

the "timeline" it shows is.... kinda crummy either way

[robust tendon]

Entirely new designs utilizing plate armor techniques and such

Its not like they came as a direct result of previous designs

[ionic cloud]

True

But the sword couldn’t have existed without the sharp rock

I know thats hyperbolic

[sullen charm]

i love hyperbowl to drink hypersoups

[white fulcrum]

oh my god did someone post that image again

[white fulcrum]

ARMOUR EVOLUTION =/= BIOLOGICAL EVOLUTION!!

[fleet junco]

Ok

[ionic cloud]

Yes, I’m familiar with evolution and how it works but there are parallels to be drawn when looking at how technology changes over time the most efficient designs are implemented….most of the time anyways

[reef thicket]

I think i found the reference of the lil axe

[sullen charm]

carpenter axe my beloved

[ionic cloud]

Looks like a small dane axe

[sullen charm]

it's a carpenter axe

[ionic cloud]

Ok

Its a good weapon to get early on

[stuck pelican]

wasn’t it just like.. slightly related

like the inventions of a actual visor latch and stuff like that

then helmets went from having a bevor for the lower face protection, to a full face armet

If I’m not wrong

[sullen charm]

"bevors" and plate collars existed back in the early 14th century

Sallets can technically be traced back to at least the 1360s

and some stuff just didn't "evolve" much like skullcaps

but bascinets of the late 13-14thc derives from skullcaps

The problem with the sort of "evolution charts", is that well firstly they are outdated and features wrong datings and helmets, but also it let ppl think that everything was linear, that a skullcap gave a bascinet and a bascinet gave a sallet

Which is a massive shortcut that even a rallye pilot wouldn't dare to take

[fleet junco]

Add head diaper

[sullen charm]

Don't post armstreet

[civic glade]

MANNNNN

that is a sexy fuckin harness

[stuck pelican]

Head diaper is a must

[lyric light]

I am cursed by armstreet posters everywhere I go

[robust tendon]

is there a reference for the helmet decoration? Never seen it before, looks nice

[fleet junco]

Errr

[real thunder]

Huge if true

[reef thicket]

Powerful and handsome knight

https://tenor.com/view/knight-dance-wacky-wiggle-gif-8130447

[civic glade]

No cowl? My man hates having hair

[fleet junco]

nah

[dawn niche]

Big brother franciska

[sullen charm]

there's french and burgundian textual sources talking about a pennon on helmets

[turbid shadow]

There we go again

[vocal vale]

i must admit it does look cool

probably the most visually cool looking way to organize a bunch of things, but it's not applicable to armor really

[sullen charm]

Raaaaahhhhh

it never misses

[reef thicket]

I need to know, what the hell is that plate on the back of early armets

Like is it just to protect the leather belt or something?

Like the old armets

Ok looked it up and I was right

[sullen charm]

the rondel ?

[reef thicket]

Yea

[sullen charm]

spaced additional armor

most likely

[reef thicket]

Its supposed to protect the belt on early armets

[sullen charm]

not really

most likely just extra spaced armor for the narrow part of the back of the armet

early armets and bicoques didn't have it

[reef thicket]

The armet a rondelle one

On the back of the head

[sullen charm]

Yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKNI7wqqf_U

[reef thicket]

The belt goes past the rondel in images ive seen

Not past

I mean like inbetween the helmet and rondel

[sullen charm]

And?

the rondel does a pretty poor job at preventing the cuts

[reef thicket]

I would've reckoned it would have protected the belt aswell partially

[sullen charm]

it's like saying the plate "aventails" of great bascinets was designed to protect the cuirass' straps

Like, yeah sure it does but that's not why it's there

[reef thicket]

I just wanted to make sure i knew what it was for

[sullen charm]

Spaced armor

[reef thicket]

You told me before man...

[sullen charm]

ik

[reef thicket]

I get it, i know what its for. I was just trying to make sense of something i didnt know about

[civic glade]

are "hand and a half" swords actually real? in my experience with hema i've never met a sword that didnt feel like it was essentially an obligate two or one handed sword. one handed swords you can pretty much always grab the pommel and get more control, but ive never met a two handed sword where i felt any sense of control or power with one hand only

even ones with a very near to the cross balance, as in the single handers ive met

my impression is that it seems like something invented by fantasy writers because the idea is compelling moreso than it seems like a useful or natural category

what i mean by 'real' is basically do we have any textual or practical evidence that a design or type of sword was ever conceived of as being useful and well suited to being wielded either way in its own time

[robust tendon]

I think there are some iconography references with one and a half handed swords

i think 13th century?

though thats what i believe to be the earliest time when they are seen

pretty sure they existed beyond that

[civic glade]

how do you mean iconography references?

[robust tendon]

as in art

[robust tendon]

this is what i was thinking of

from the alphonso/tenison psalter

though this is very late 13th

and it may not actually be 1.5 handed, and instead just an early longsword

[sullen charm]

Yes they are, so are bastard swords

[sullen charm]

there's a lot of these, even earlier but to me it's just artistic liberty to convey a message, just like when you see swords slashing through armors just to say "he killed that guy"

idk if you feel me

[robust tendon]

yeah i get that

but it's not too out there to think that two handed swords were a thing this early

maybe uncommon, but still an in-use weapon

[sullen charm]

Honestly idk what to kind about that

[civic glade]

how could a piece of art communicate that a sword is versatile in this way? the figure will always either be holding it one or two hands, which only tells you that it is useful in that way

not that it would also be useful in the other

[robust tendon]

well in the particular image i used he has a shield

if he couldn't use the sword and shield why carry it

[fleet junco]

I got a discord highlight notifcatiin

[sullen charm]

the 2 handed thing could be meaning "he executed him" or "he gave a full power blow" or whatever

david and goliath

(8th century)

[robust tendon]

i think here its more clearly an artistic liberty

than an actual depiction of a weapon that people used

[sullen charm]

1210-1220 germany

same

[civic glade]

what an interesting art style

i dont think ive ever seen one like this before

[reef thicket]

I love the jointless arms

[sullen charm]

1234-1250 germany (david & goliath)

[civic glade]

i couldnt back this up, but ive seen it be a matter of discourse whether the shield might be used strapped to the upper arm or across the shoulders in order to wield a sword in two hands

[sullen charm]

1240 Germany (prolly massacre of the innocents)

[civic glade]

that being said, that piece is kind of persuasive

[sullen charm]

1256, Germany

[civic glade]

but i still question its veracity in terms of depicting reality as it is, since it kind of seems like a monastic piece

[robust tendon]

to me it looks very much two handed rather than a regular arming sword being used to convey a powerful blow

[civic glade]

and monks dont know much about war

[sullen charm]

same

[civic glade]

in general i feel like thats a broad envidencial problem with medieval hema questions

[robust tendon]

i did find an existing piece

but the range was very broad

like 1250-1350

[sullen charm]

they know enough to depict accurate arms and armor, remember that the goal isn't to depict the events exactly like how they went down but to tell a story, convey a message

[civic glade]

i love the way they render chaimail texture

[sullen charm]

In this one you have both, swords handled with 2 hands and said swords slashing throught maille

to me it sounds a bit like "they fought fiercly and there was a lot of casualties"

[civic glade]

which, from archaeology we seem to find it very rare that injuries are sustained through maille, but in terms of what it communicates, this blow was powerful and they were fighting very fiercely

[sullen charm]

But that's just my opinion

[civic glade]

which, to that end

[robust tendon]

i see it as a bit of both

some of it could be artistic choices, but it's likely that some others are not

[sullen charm]

There's written accounts of maille being broken but it's always with "piercing" stuff (lance, pike..)

[civic glade]

i find the idea that putting two hands on a sword to gain more power kind of questionable. In my own practical experience it seems like it moreso confers more control than more power.

[civic glade]

practical experiments on youtube on riveted maille seem to suggest the way to go is with something with a diamond cross section, such that it splits the maille link from within.

cutting across the surface seems almost impossible

[robust tendon]

i think you'd only see it among knights and other well armored combatants, the shield for lesser armored people is very much important

making it an uncommon choice but still a weapon used

[sullen charm]

yeah there's absolutely no way you cut throught maille

[robust tendon]

i've only seen a rondel dagger go through

[civic glade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydjdBTV8ZbY

skall has a bit of reputation, but yknow how it is

the parameters of the experiment can never be perfect, but it does feel like a valid test to me

the more interesting trials are the longsword and the spear for me, because they demonstrate the 'splitting action' i was talking about

the longsword could achieve a penetration of 3-5 inches, while the spear achieved a more limited penetration

the rondel itself achieved like a 6 inch penetration and could easily have kept going

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHwJtCExkU&pp=ygUQcGVuZXRyYXRpbmcgbWFpbA%3D%3D for a negative example, heres a round spike on a horsemans axe failing to pen

[sullen charm]

found the account from the battle of bouvines saying that Philippe Auguste took a hit from a sort of billhook spike at the neck while he was on his horse, and the infantryman pushed that hard against the King that tried to free himself from it, eventually the maille links shattered and the King fell off his horse

[civic glade]

fascinating

[smoky topaz]

The battle of bouvines

[civic glade]

do you interpret the shattering as like, the weave of the chainmail was ripped, or that a link broke and a full penetration was achieved?

[smoky topaz]

The battle of cows

[sullen charm]

?

Ah yes

[civic glade]

anyway

to round around

i find the artistic evidence dubious in terms of supporting hand and a half swords as a real sword type

i feel like something textual from a martial practitioner or something interlocuting with one would be like the gold standard of that

[sullen charm]

Because we've been only showing 13th century manuscripts

[smoky topaz]

Sword "types" are kind of a modern concept as far as I know

[sullen charm]

But there's quite a couple surviving pieces of what could be technically called hand and a half from the 15thc

[robust tendon]

oh i think it's more or less certain that they existed, but its not clear how early

[civic glade]

could you show one of these later examples?

[sullen charm]

We're also not sure what they meant with "passot sword" and "bastard sword" in the texts but .. there's that 🤷‍♂️

[civic glade]

interesting

[sullen charm]

quick search but ik there's a few more around

single-edged (1520s-1550)

where you draw the line between hand & a half and longsword is a very blurry one

[civic glade]

my sentiment about it is that most swords called hand-and-a-half are actually just longswords, and to me a longsword is essentially an obligate two handed sword that can only be held in one hand very clumsily

[civic glade]

of all of these this is the only one that really seems to me like it has potential to be held either way with good balance

im not like the fuckin sword whisperer though, so i cant claim i can see the balance of the sword just by looking at it

[civic glade]

but in terms of overall proportion, i find it very doubtful for instance that the third sword in this set would feel good to hold in one hand. its extremely long in proportion to its grip with a fairly broad blade, i suspect its center being a few inches out from the cross. tip heavy, as it were.

[civic glade]

the first in that first set and this sword make me question

but again this is all speculative

i have no doubt that 'bastard swords' are a term people have applied to swords, i guess my speculation is that these swords really are all that useful either way

but rather it seems like they have one or the other being the primary most well balanced way to hold it, and the other being possible by technicality

fencer keeps starting to type and then not saying it

im scared

[sullen charm]

So apparently this sword length is just a bit above 1 meter, and weight 600grams

wait no wrong sword for the weight

the museum sheet doesn't state the weight raaaahhhh

but 1m of lenght aint too bad

[civic glade]

3 feet 4 inches or so

overall length or blade length?

[sullen charm]

repro of a so called "hand & a half" sword found at Castillon (1450)

[sullen charm]

overall

[civic glade]

not as long as it seems then

[sullen charm]

same place, same date but long

https://basedescollections.musee-armee.fr/search/111d1de2-f1cc-4f42-902d-840cfdbedaa5 have fun

[sullen charm]

that's the sword I opted for on my coustillier dream kit

[turbid shadow]

ominous

[tight sand]

i think it was drawn in this way cuz it was easier to draw it

i ve seen an image of swords piercing through tophelm if i am mistaken

and like picture from mid 15th century when people in full harness had they limbs cut of

[sullen charm]

read the messages surrounding the image

[tight sand]

My bad

[fleet junco]

egg cuirass

[agile trench]

Devious spectator

[viscid bloom]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbjlxiDncv1qbwdm8o1_500.jpg
Paul Hector Mair’s De arte atheltica, made in Augsburg, Germany in the mid 16th century

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Mscr._Dresd._C_93-94._Fol_479.jpg/800px-Mscr._Dresd._C_93-94._Fol_479.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Paulus_Hector_Mair.-_A_Duel_with_Two_Sickles%2C_on_of_African_descent%2C_Arte_de_Athletica%2C_Germany%2C_c._1550.png

[robust tendon]

A nice manuscript but very late for the game

1430-1490 iirc is the time period

[tepid edge]

Nice place for that

[tight sand]

arent these weapon are just peasant tools. They still dont fit to the period or u were referring to clothes

[sullen charm]

the clothes don't fit the period, the weapons/tools does

[turbid shadow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/573910521963610112/919521109504831518/animation_cpg67.gif?ex=65bf58c4&is=65ace3c4&hm=b56ed4ba1eccc9d3b1918baad8cde467357c92076f242a89a848d744392f86b6&

[tight sand]

daaaamn

Fuck these fuckers

[stuck pelican]

That’s why we never see Sasquatch anymore

[robust tendon]

yeah referring to the clothes

[tepid edge]

I like how the knight dragged the kid out mid fight and the hairy fucker just watched

[pliant minnow]

bro got decimated instantly

[robust tendon]

an arm harness just barely in period

c.1490

mainly for cavalry fighting, for the "joust of war"

[sullen charm]

oh good heavens

the... the ARTICULATION...........

i am arriving!!!

[vivid oracle]

POV: you have beated the first boss

[stuck pelican]

[reef void]

will there be any jjba references??...

[white fulcrum]

yeah I hope not

[sullen charm]

are you aware that's pretty much why the game is called halfsword?

[old sky]

what is this considered as? barbute? sallet? bascinet?

[sullen charm]

piece of trash larp helmet

but could be all three depending on who you ask

but tbh it's more of a sallet/barbute

(basing my reply on actual surviving examples this "repro" was based on)

[old sky]

why so?

[old sky]

when was this specific kind of helmet used?

[sullen charm]

because it's look ass, it's badly shaped ect

[sullen charm]

the others sallet/barbute with a nasal are dated around 1450

namely these two

[old sky]

left one looks interesting

[candid dawn]

Think we have the left one in game currently:)))

[sullen charm]

yep

[candid dawn]

In the demo

We have the right one made too just didnt get it in the game yet

[sullen charm]

more examples

woops

third pic i meant to post

[candid dawn]

Gota make that one too hehe

[old sky]

where do you get these scripts from?

[sullen charm]

https://www.khm.at/objektdb/detail/371572/?offset=5&lv=list

[old sky]

wait is that helmet blackened?

[sullen charm]

Seems like it

[viscid bloom]

https://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/volltextserver/17203/
Iron Documents , Interdisciplinary studies on the technology of late medieval European plate armour production between 1350 and 1500 by Matthias Goll.

Thousands of armour from art and objects catalogged by typological and technological features .

[robust tendon]

Ehhh id say these helms are more of a barbute-lite if you will

Sallets tend to have the “tail” extension while with barbutes its far less pronounced, granted on some visorless sallets it is quite small compared to others but it is still more so than barbute helms and their ilk

Almost like a half barbute that doesnt cover quite as much as the other variations

[sullen charm]

sallets = barbutes = sallets

[robust tendon]

fair enough, the naming is a bit silly when most in period people probably just called it a helmet

[lyric light]

thats like saying today "the naming is a bit silly because most people probably just called them cars"

[white fulcrum]

not really no

[robust tendon]

most people i know do just call them cars

They don’t say specific models usually

[sullen charm]

reconstruction of one effigy, that of Sir William Phelip, Lord Bardolph (d.1441)

[agile trench]

I don’t think people were pretentious enough to say look at my new SALLET or check out my BASCINET

Nor do I think people today say look at my Dodge Ram 1500

They just say hey I got a new car/truck

[sullen charm]

It's more complicated and it's rare that the difference between sallets and barbutes were made

On this matter, the namings changed with time, you better believe they didn't start to call helmets "sallets" overnight

Theycould still call them bascinet for instance within the 15thc until eventually completely refering to them as sallet

What's funny is that in french texts "barbutes" sometimes define bevors

Anyway, names changes from person to person and from eras to eras (like armets being sometimes called armets, sometimes bicoque, sometime something else ect)

but to take back the previous example "is this helmet a sallet or a barbute?" it's both, unless you want to draw a complitely unfounded and arbitrary line separating barbutes from sallets by their "tails" or whatever but I wouldn't advise to do so

[unborn tartan]

Italian art often shows large polearms with shields (spears make sense but sometimes they're using full sized pollaxes like in that painting), was this used and if so how? Like use the shield for protection from arrows and drop it when the melee starts or use both at the same time?

[sullen charm]

Honestly idk, i'm not very versed into tactics, but it's pretty sure it was used since it's showed quite a bunch

I would think the pollaxe would be used "like a spear" (meaning use the dagger mostly) but i'm really not sure and that's just conjecture

[tight sand]

i dont think its right to compare them with car. I mean u can compare it with nowadays helmets and etc. People usually referring to original name or categorize into high cut helmets or low-cut helmets and etc

but ye bossk explained everything

[agile trench]

Tell that to buriedryhme2999

He’s the one that made the point anyways

I was saying it was a weird comparison

[vocal vale]

i’ve only seen that in letters outlining how a small force is to be armed

like “buy 3 sallets”

[sullen charm]

because it's the name of the helmet

plenty of texts refers to such helmets as sallets, in particular in french since that's the vast majority of my readings

but they are called "sallade"

sometimes "sallade d'archier" (archer sallet, not sure what it could mean, probably a certain style of sallet, or simply a visorless one)

and they use that term reliably accross all times of documents, from ordonnances, montres (muster accounts), to smith commissions and even judiciary accounts

[old sky]

what kind of helmet is this? i figure some sort of bascinet but i don't know how its called. Was it used in reality?

[sullen charm]

It is a bascinet, some ppl call it "lithuanian style" and others call it "pickelhaube"

They appear here and there in eastern europe. The one with this sort of brim was found in poland iicr

[old sky]

many thanks Bossk!

[sullen charm]

np

[dusky thicket]

pickelhaube like this helmet?

[sullen charm]

can you guess what pickelhaube means

[dusky thicket]

I don't speak much English, I don't speak German, so no... I have no idea what it means.😂

[sullen charm]

pickel = spike, point
haube = helm

[old sky]

Pickel also means pimple

[edgy narwhal]

This is a LEDERHELM MIT SPITZE

[tepid edge]

Holy shit

[old sky]

cool kit down there

[sullen charm]

shut up foreigner go back to your country!!

[edgy narwhal]

careful franzmann

or ill crown another emperor in versaille

[sullen charm]

we speak american here you mexican

[edgy narwhal]

says the canadian speaker

[sullen charm]

you're literally tanzanian

[edgy narwhal]

nuh uh

[fleet junco]

canada number one

'

[topaz patrol]

[sullen charm]

knight and 100 Years War captain Sir John Cressy (d. 1443)

[edgy narwhal]

this mans moustache exudes incredible amounts of sex

[torpid urchin]

the scrumptious gyatt

[fleet junco]

some good stuff

[sullen charm]

gyr

gyt

gyat

[robust tendon]

would spiked pommels be in period for this game?

[sullen charm]

like so?

i believe they're closer to the mid 15th century

[robust tendon]

yeah those

I’ve read that they fuck up ergonomics and are not really useful outside of armored dueling but they’d fit into tournament or duel settings in the game

Mid fifteenth is the game period so they would fit then

[fleet junco]

add estocs

[edgy narwhal]

paint is most likely a later addition

[vocal vale]

fiore shows a spiked pommel sword in fiore di battalgia

[stuck pelican]

???

[sullen charm]

?

[stuck pelican]

Sheild drawn onto a sheild

instead of like.. just putting the design over the actual sheild fully

[stuck pelican]

oh

[white fulcrum]

dumbass shield design

hope the guy using that shield died

this is fire tho

[stuck pelican]

FR!

[candid dawn]

Some good reffs guys!! :))

[sullen charm]

based on the effigy of Sir Richard Beauchamp, 13th Earl of Warwick (d. 1439)
According to surviving documents, the work on the armor began in 1449 and finished in 1454

Reproduction made by Jeffrey D Wasson for Liz Scott

The Beauchamp armour has often been called Italian, however Dr. Tobias Capwell believe it to be french as stated in his book

[sullen charm]

@prisma raven

[prisma raven]

yoooooooo