thanks for the report!
#Felicitous Favors - NO SCREENSHOTS NEEDED
daring spear
molten veldt
Cheers and thanks!
daring spear
fix is in. thanks again!
molten veldt
Oh one more thing, the proposed agenda only covers 20 out of 24 hours, so should I just toss in whatever to fill out the final 4 hour craft?
daring spear
oh, right, it should be an 8h craft there, not a 4h. shark oil instead of culinary knife
molten veldt
Ohh true
daring spear
molten veldt
I defer to thine excel wizardry
neon venture
Consider me dumb but, I do have a question. The favors; are those things that we would need to use a workshop for to make that would complete the favor? I'm just trying to understand it a bit better because I just unlocked it.
split kraken
Consider me dumb but, I do have a question. The favors; are those things that we...
Questions are better handled in #💵︱island-chat. This is a theorycrafting channel
neon venture
Thank you! ❤️
eager junco
@daring spear Next week I have no links. Running the Favor Linker (which I renamed to Favor Customizer), it put in brick counter in front of garnet rapier. ugh... I filter/sorted the Workshop Crafts to Z>A val/hr and ofc, Hora popped in there. I decided that I wanted to know the val/hr for them all so I added columns for that. I think it will be handy as time goes on. Just curious... what are J,K and L columns for? I don't see them used (yet). There's what mine looks like now...
daring spear
For the sake of getting it out quickly, the solver picks the first linking craft that fits. It's not trying to solve for cowries
eager junco
Yes, sorting solved that easily! 🙂
daring spear
Also you may want to pull a fresh copy, fixed a few bugs after you got yours
eager junco
k- thanks... I have to keep deleting the old ones in my Drive and renaming the new one. Expected at beginning of patch! 😀
fringe willow
@split kraken Okay.. I have had a algorithmic thought . Feel free to completely disregard this, I haven't paid THAT close attention to the discussion you've had on this subject previously, but I THINK I know how I'd implement Favors with the current bot/strucutre/philosophy.
So, if we craft for favors, we're losing Cowries. This is a truth that we'll just have to accept. The Objective is lose the minimum amount of Cowries over the course of crafting our favors. To know how many cowries we're losing for crafting Favors, we need a concept of "Favor Hours" that would ideally be calculated while we're figuring out how much each schedule is worth in cowries. Basically, a schedule crafts 3 8hr crafts in it, it contains 24 "Favor Hours" I think this might be hard/expensive to calculate when we generate our ordered lists of schedules, and that may be the reason this approach doesn't work, but that's what it requires.
So basically we'd generate recs as normal, and then re-sort our list of schedules in descending "Favor Hours" order. Then go down the list comparing to our WS4 schedule to see how many cowries we'd lose if we replaced WS4 with the "maximum Favor Hours" option. And if the amount of cowries you lose there is unacceptable (more on this later) Then you move down to the next schedule in the list, and so on, until you hit the 0 favor hours mark, at which point you've determined that it's not worth replacing WS4. If you do replace, you then do the same for the main workshop schedule.
This does make the rest day calculations slightly more difficult, because you need to look at "how many cowries did I lose on this non-rest day turned rest" vs. "How many cowries am I likely to lose later in the week to get this many Favor Hours." But the important thing is looking at the difference between "Ignoring Favors" and "Crafting Favors" and using that cowrie difference as our basis for all decision making.
As for how big of a cowrie loss is "acceptable..." I feel like that can be figured out by looking at popularity multipliers for the week. If we're working with an Average 8 hour, we can accept a much bigger Cowrie loss than if we were working with a High or Very High 8hr. As a Very High 8hr favor item should be comperable to what we'd craft that week for our normal schedule, and we can afford to be a bit more picky about when we craft it. Whereas an Average 8hr is gonna lose us a bunch of cowries no matter when we craft it. The actual numbers will take a little bit of modeling to nail down exactly how that comparison should be, I don't have time right this instant to do said modeling, but it's certainly possible to come up with a threshold for "4 Favor Hours isn't worth 3k cowries" or somethi'n like that.
Solving for end of week is also feasible (although slow) as you'd just do the comparison across all 3 "Solved" workshops simultaniously. You choose whichever schedule loses the least number of cowries, do that replacement, and then re-evaluate from there
.... Fuck, I just realized, that considering "Favor Hours" works right up until the point where suddenly it doesn't because oyu've already gotten your 8hr crafts done and don't need to do any more of those. Shit. Hrmm.....
Calculating "useful Favor Hours" will be even slower/bigger pain in the ass, but that should salvage the concept.
Would have to recalc that list everytime you do a substitution for solving the last 3 days. God solving the last 3 days sucks ass.
Anyway, I had this thought while doing dishes, and wanted to get it written out SOMEWHERE before it was burned away by lights harsh rays.
uncut cradle
As I see it, to solve for favors, we need to know full week schedule.
Other way maybe possible, but it's rocket science at this point.
So, next best thing - fortuneteller with favors support?..
fringe willow
As I see it, to solve for favors, we need to know full week schedule.
Other way ...
Nah. That's like saying to solve for cowries normally we need to know the full week schedule.
We guess all the time when making our schedules. They're the best guesses that you can make (except very rarely on C2 because imposter testing is just not worth anyone's time) but there are, week to week, schedules that would have made you slightly more cowries if you'd been able to accurately predict the future.
Favors are the same. We're gonna be guessing a lot to see where the best place to put our favor crafts are for any given week. the trick is figuring out how to make those guesses intelligently, based on data, so that we're right more often than anyone without future vision could be.
And fortuneteller doesn't make the problem any easier to solve. If anything it's harder to solve, because we have NO Idea what things are going to peak when, so we really would be replacing schedules seemingly at random. It's HARDER to solve for fortuneteller, because there are so many more variables you could manipulate and a lot more uncertainty about the impact of those changes.
misty kettle
It's probably worth considering "are we likely to use it" early in the week - e.g. if it's a very high popularity granary item, we're definitely using it in normal recs so there's no sacrifice, but it's it's brick counter/gold hairpin, we're going to have to sacrifice something for it. Alternatively, if it's a common linker for a high-value item (e.g. natron, paprika, firesand, boiled egg) we're likely to make, we should also save it.
Things like scale fingers/crook are more difficult, if they're high popularity we might make them or they might be beaten by a strong peak of something else. If they're just average, we're looking at a sacrifice again.
I was thinking about this because my first instinct is "jam the 4h in WS4 of CC1 so you at least get groove with it and that's one done", but we wouldn't want to do that if we could be making a granary craft there instead, and/or the 4h is a good link for something later in the week.
wet beacon
my personal take on cowries vs favors is gonna be "favors are worth much more gil than cowries currently" and i will gladly sacrifice cowries for it ;-;
gleaming seal
This has most likely already been asked, but can you get favors from next week's season this week?
bold sparrow
Negative
misty kettle
my personal take on cowries vs favors is gonna be "favors are worth much more gi...
While true, the aim of the current research is to find a way to craft all favors with minimal cowrie loss. Just completing the favors is fairly trivial.
In fact, the solver in Kaydeethree's spreadsheet does that in minimal timeframes (it just doesn't take cowries or recs into account)
wet beacon
Yeah don't take my statement as a dismissal
there are other interesting gil x cowries x favors factors at play too
i.e. how will veggie vouchers or gamba items prices fluctuate
according to the most popular way to do favors
eager musk
How many coffers can you get a week? By extension, how many coffers can you open by the time you'd get the guaranteed mount?
bold sparrow
coffer is 10 tokens iirc, and you get 70 tokens a week
the voucher mount is 200 vouchers, which a voucher is 10 tokens as well
You can buy vouchers for gil as well.
It's 29 weeks if you buy the vouchers with only the tokens
timber holly
does island adenium drop from container?
misty kettle
does island adenium drop from container?
craggy walrus
I like to sort my thoughts by spelling out assumptions even if they're very obvious
- We want all the Favors every week because they're A: worth more than Cowries (right now) and B: the completion bonus makes partial Favors just so much less efficient. Favors will probably (always?) be more valuable thanks to their extremely limited supply, but it's not a guarantee.
- We want to solve for least Cowries lost per week compared to fully optimized for Cowries. It's impossible to gain Cowries since it's already being solved for most Cowries possible! There is only loss
little bluff
I got iron axe both my chars, I just didn't post since the thread said no more.
blissful lantern
oh, my alt got iron axe this week
split kraken
It's nice to have confirmation but we're like 99.99% sure every craft is possible
blissful lantern
except for low pop, right?
bold sparrow
every recipe is possible most likely
popularity changes, so yes, technically not every recipes at all times
strange gyro
Is it too late to share mine?
misty kettle
Do you see the title of this thread? 🙂
strange gyro
That's why I was asking. Mine are going to be annoying next week.
misty kettle
Feel free to post it in #💵︱island-chat for commiserations, but it's not needed for research any more because we've drawn all the conclusions we could
split kraken
If you're only trying to get the 4 and 8 hour favors done, am I dumb or is there no way to do it in only 3 workshops if they don't link?
I really feel like they you should be able to
But I can't figure it out
If they do link, you can do 4848 and then 2 workshops of 44448
But if they don't, all I've got is 2 workshops of 4848 and then 444444 which is only 6
8 is such a big number
I can do 8448 in 4 workshops 🙃
(Someone come up with something better, please)
half temple
i would think that you can't simply because you would need 4 linked 8s which would mean 48 hours taken up already
daring spear
if you're completely disregarding the 6h crafts, 4848 for 1&2, then 444444 with 3
though that's way overkill on the 4h crafts as you're already at 6 after agenda 2
split kraken
if you're completely disregarding the 6h crafts, **4848** for 1&2, then 4**4**4*...
But then you're only making 4 of the 8hr craft
2 workshops of 2 inefficient crafts
split kraken
I think mila's right and you do need 4 workshops, mathematically, but also I'm very prone to saying "welp, that's impossible" and moving on
(Never ask me to solve one of those "these little pieces of metal are linked, make them separate" puzzles)
half temple
how many 4s do you need again?
split kraken
8
half temple
yeah best i could come up with is within 3⅓ cycles
jaunty cosmos
In order to craft with efficiency bonus the 4/8h crafts take up 4 ⅓ & ½ chunks of a workshop respectfully. This makes them incompatible to be used in a workshop together without either using unlinked favors or losing craft hours making it impossible to do within 3WS
split kraken
Okay, so I think the minimum workshops is as follows:
all 3, no links: 5 workshops
all 3 any links: 4 workshops
Only 4 and 8, they link: 3 workshops
Only 6 and 8, they link: 3 workshops
Only 4 and 6, they don't link: 3 workshops
Only 4 and 6, they link: 2 workshops
otherwise: 2 workshops per item
half temple
the first 2 lines describe how kd3's favor linker spreadsheet does it from what i saw
daring spear
yep. I'm going for 'no thinking, just do this', so it's always all 3 favors
split kraken
Alright, only for you cool kids in this thread: I added a new /favors command to the bot
It's basically an expanded and slightly edited version of what's in Kay's spreadsheet
You can enter as many favors as you want, so if you think/know you can make some as part of main recs, you don't have to ask for it
It's also ephemeral so it replies directly to you, since favors are personalized and no one else's favors are of any use
daring spear
what channel is it in? tried to use it in bot-spam and here but got nothing
daring spear
yep
split kraken
It would be great if I could get some feedback on it before I announce it as A Thing
fringe willow
Worked like a charm with the nonsense I just fed it
jaunty cosmos
This might be more work than it's worth but could it be made to give 6__648__ suggestions if there's an option to avoid breaking efficiency when that's not an option with 4__668__?
split kraken
This might be more work than it's worth but could it be made to give 6__**6**__4...
Definitely! What universe is this in? >.<
3 items, no links?
jaunty cosmos
Draught + Garnet was the first thing that came to mind when you asked us to test it
frank berry
@daring spear How do you input into your spreadsheet that I copied? When I click in any of the spaces nothing happens.
cloud obsidian
So, for the favors when I use the bot, do I type in the ones I need?
split kraken
Yes
jaunty cosmos
I'm currently trying to figure out all the best combinations to minimize efficiency breaks using intermediary links & still get favors done in 5WS
neon radish
kd3 favors vs bot favor command: so from bot, it's one schedule per cycle using 4th workshop. the kd3 favor solver depends if there are 4 or 5 agendas to sacrifice 1 cycle or just 4th WS?
daring spear
if you want to put the 4 agendas in ws4 and use the 5th cycle normally, you can do that too
frank berry
@daring spear I can't even find your spreadsheet anymore on here
daring spear
neon radish
Gotcha
daring spear
(click the second link to copy it into your google drive)
neon radish
no combo next_week and favors yet right?
daring spear
no
neon radish
ok, just curious. not asking for that to exist at all.
it's all very helpful so thank you very special folks to do the nitty gritty
cloud obsidian
Thank you for this!
frank berry
@daring spear its copied but can't edit.
long atlas
I fuk'd up this week so I had to sack a day and the 4th workshop to meet it.
frank berry
@split kraken Link to how you do this please
frank berry
@daring spear I clicked the link that says copy to edit. I get an error message that starts with oops something went wrong...
daring spear
what happens if you try this link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JpgoMcPU401YhJVelcSZQd4ve0M_mnMTLccD805BTsk/copy
(works best on desktop, not on your phone)
frank berry
@split kraken Can am get a link to it? Thanks.
daring spear
mienna doesn't control the sheet, I do. if you can't get it copied into your drive, she can't assist you
she has set up the /favors command, give that a try in #🚽︱bot-spam
frank berry
@daring spear oops unable to access documents. Make sure you're connected to the internet.
daring spear
does that link open in your browser on your computer? are you logged into google in that browser?
night sundial
bitter basin
i'll probably hold off on inputting my favors until we have a better idea on a good day to sack, but it looks like the bot and sheet both agree it's a 5 workshop week again, rip
alpine locust
i'll probably hold off on inputting my favors until we have a better idea on a g...
YMMV, based on your favors, if they link, and their popularities, of course.
Cuz if you get some good linkage, you can definitely 4 workshop it. If good favors, they may just be part of recs anyway.
bitter basin
yeah, for sure. i don't have high expectations though, maybe sauerkraut but... ehhhh...
pretty sure not, based on our usuals tbh
mine for this week are sauerkraut/horn/gold hairpin 
wise pulsar
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how I can organize next week's schedule for a shipment of 8x Coconut Juices (4h), 6x Brick Counters (6h), and 8x Crooks (8h)...
alpine locust
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how I can organize next week's schedule for a ...
- When shipped, a craft with the efficiency bonus counts as 2 crafts towards the favor, rather than 1
wise pulsar
oh
alpine locust
wise pulsar
i see
alpine locust
PS: #💵︱island-chat is a better place to ask questions. This is more the theorycrafting/research thread zone
wise pulsar
okay, sorry
alpine locust
All g
jaunty cosmos
Read self reply below
A list of the most efficient† 5WS agendas using indirect links. †Min-maxed groove value via brute force accuracy may vary.
Link type 446
46446 x3
4__848__ x2
Link type 448
44448 x3
4__686__ x2
Link type 466
44466 x3
4__848__ x2
Link type 468
4__44444__
44__646__
4__848__
468|6 x2
Link type 486
4__44444__
4__848__ x2
486|6 x2
Link type 488
4__848__
4__488__ x2
4__4|646__ x2
Link type 648
4__44444__
6__648x3
444|48__
Link type 668
4__44444__
4__668x3
444|48__
Link type 688 Loses 4 hours but it's better than efficiency breaks. Use other link patterns if possible.
688 x2
4__848__
4__444|6__ x2
Link type 46846
4__44444__
6__468__
6__648__ x3
Link type 46866
4__44444__
6__468__
4__668__ x3
Link type 48648
4__44444__
4__866__ x2
6__648__ x2
Link type 48668
4__44444__
6__684__
4__668__ x2
4__848__
Link type 48846
4__44444__
6__648__ x3
4__488__
Link type 48866
4__44444__
4__668__ x3
4__488__
Sorry for the wall of text, probably should've exported it to a spreadsheet or word document but I did it all via discord mobile & moving it like that seems like it'd be a real pain.
I haven't checked if all of these can show up or if every craft can fit in their respective agendas so there's probably somethings that don't like 
so if you see something like that or any errors lemme know & I'll try to fix it eventually if I ever move it to something more edit friendly.
alpine locust
I can in fact confirm they didn't fuck this up, but do be aware of the possible Insufficient Surplus bug possibly screwing you over.
jaunty cosmos
Read self reply below
~~A list of the most efficient† 5WS agendas using indirect...
@split kraken Yeahhh all this was pointless
4__44444__
44__646__
4__46|46__
4__848__ x2
Works for every combination other than with a single break & conveniently gets the groove train rolling before building potentially high value crafts.
split kraken
jaunty cosmos
That combination even does as well or better than most of those combos without breaks because all the inefficient crafts are 4h
Why couldn't I realize this like 12h ago?
I thought epiphanies were supposed to feel good.
pliant gale
Trying to read all this has my brain turning to mush. Do we have any answers on what the most effective way to do favors is?
magic star
Trying to read all this has my brain turning to mush. Do we have any answers on ...
this channel's for research/theorycrafting
for now your answer is use /favors in bot spam and figure out whether 1) some of that fits into the recs anyways, or 2) sacrifice 4th workshop to do it
pliant gale
Yeah makes sense
magic star
afaik Mienna's still looking into the possibility of generating a custom recs that incorporates your favors but that may prove to be computationally problematic
pliant gale
Yeah I imagine that'd be rough
magic star
so it's entirely possible this is the best we'll get
errant anchor
The only thing I can think of would be to have the alts command generate like ten alt recs and have people pray their favors are in those
split kraken
It does 5, but it can’t do much more than that due to character limits
errant anchor
rip
split kraken
<@149952405142765569> Yeahhh all this was pointless
4__**4**__4__**4**__4__**4**...
Do we know that every 4 had a 6 it links to? For the 3rd schedule?
jaunty cosmos
I'm pretty sure I checked everything but it was also 4am so I maybe should double check
Cursed pattern
4__444|8__ x2
4__6|68__ x3
misty kettle
What if your 4 and 6 link in that scenario? I guess the mammet would take priority?
jaunty cosmos
Your links are whatever fits cause I think that's the only 5WS solution for without intermediary links
daring spear
my brute-force answer is that if there's ever not a valid link the sheet pretends that there's no links
eager junco
damned
left sage
Mammet Award for being the Most Obtuse Craft
jaunty cosmos
Oh I misread the question
jaunty cosmos
Do we know that every 4 had a 6 it links to? For the 3rd schedule?
Double checked & confirmed all categories have a 6h
daring spear
whew, my hack will survive
eager junco
Interesting choices... @daring spear 's sheet chooses differently for
split kraken
So every 4 has a 4. Every 4 has a 6. Every 4 DOES NOT NECESSARILY have an 8.
Every 6 has a 4. Period.
Every 8 has a 6. Period.
jaunty cosmos
Jam doesn't have a 6h
split kraken
Jam
jaunty cosmos
Or an 8h
jaunty cosmos
Imma derp
split kraken
Interesting choices... <@131586552122966016> 's sheet chooses differently for <:...
Them differing is not at all weird. Do you have a comment?
daring spear
mienna's solves will be better than mine as the bot can take more things into account. I'm literally just stuffing things into agendas
jaunty cosmos
What if your 4 and 6 link in that scenario? I guess the mammet would take priori...
Tried solving but it seems forces you to need 5WS
split kraken
You give me too much credit. I am also stuffing things into agendas, lol
split kraken
Tried solving but it seems <:OC_MammetAward:1158758339262566513> forces you to n...
Correct. Mammet award needs 3 workshops all by itself
The jerk
eager junco
Them differing is not at all weird. Do you have a comment?
Yes. @daring spear uses all hours of each day, it appears. /favors does not. I guess it will depend on those hours cowrie gains if it matters.
daring spear
if you're doing favors, cowries are worthless to you
misty kettle
Who is FF even selling those to? 🤔
jaunty cosmos
Either people in Old Sharlayan or the mammets themselves
eager junco
Well, cowries still matter to those of us who took time off and are still buying cowrie stuff and have TERRIBLE rng with overmelding.
split kraken
Yes. <@131586552122966016> uses all hours of each day, it appears. /favors does ...
I'll hard code in a check
daring spear
it doesn't have a 4-hour link so we have to make some alternate decisions for it. same with a few other crafts
misty kettle
Basically it's a special case that makes solving favor patterns harder. It's also low-value, you'd never willingly craft it.
split kraken
<@149952405142765569> Yeahhh all this was pointless
4__**4**__4__**4**__4__**4**...
This is excellent. Didn't even necessarily lose efficiency on the 446|46
jaunty cosmos
You've got 2 crafts to find a chain so it shouldn't need to break too often but it's not always avoidable
mint rampart
This is _excellent_. Didn't even necessarily lose efficiency on the 446|46
Is this only using the 4th workshop?
I think I'm starting to understand
night sundial
i'm not but i'm going with it, my 4th workshops are all set for this week and the next
and no awards
wet beacon
How fucked up would it be to do unlinked favors in two days?
One weak/average day I sac ws4 (like today as an example)
and by c4 i pick a second day with the lowest cowrie amount and sac all 4 workshops for favors
daring spear
sure. all that matters is that the agendas get made at some point
if you don't want to think too far ahead, sacrifice all 5 ws4 crafting cycles. if you think you can do something like avoid c2's laver-pocalypse, put four of them in them in on c2 and stick the remainder in c3's ws4
wet beacon
i was thinking of doing the opposite, because despite the laver suffering, its a pretty damn good cowries day 
but all in all i'm just testing what i can do with favors and the market board if i get them early in the week vs getting through the week or late in the week
eager junco
The vouchers are tanking on MB. Mine have been for sale for 2 days and keep dropping with no takers
misty kettle
Since the adenium was found in the loot boxes, vouchers are essentially worthless right now. At first, everyone thought it was a 29 week grind, and buying vouchers would speed it up, but it's just rng. With enough people doing IS, the market will soon have plenty of them available.
frank berry
@daring spear I'm logged into Google I even downloaded sheets app. It shows your sheet blank or oops something went wrong
daring spear
again, are you trying to do this on your phone or on your computer? it doesn't work all that well on your phone
frank berry
@daring spear tablet not phone
daring spear
mienna's also added the /favors command to the bot. try using it instead in #🚽︱bot-spam
daring spear
<@131586552122966016> tablet not phone
same issue. the copy link doesn't really work properly on mobile devices (phones or tablets)
bold sparrow
what about laptops
daring spear
hm, the new no-link setup puts a wrinkle in how I display agendas
magic star
do tell?
split kraken
Btw, @daring spear , your sheet says to just sack a cycle if you only have 4 workshops. I feel like that's generally a bad idea? It's probably better for cowries (and for consistency) to just keep recommending folks use the 4th workshop, they can just use recs for one of those days
daring spear
yeah, that change is already in flight
split kraken
Because if you're gonna sack a cycle you really need to know what day is worth the second-m--okay
daring spear
do tell?
#1158982225958809650 message this setup uses 4 columns
I was originally displaying 4-5 columns til I realized what a waste of space that was
magic star
ah
oak parcel
Is there somewhere I can find which items to pick for my workshops this week that use felicitous favours?
daring spear
my tool in #1064380796556816384 or mienna's /favors command in #🚽︱bot-spam. more info in the pins of #💵︱island-chat
magic star
Is there somewhere I can find which items to pick for my workshops this week tha...
just to be clear, are you asking how best to make your favors, or where to find what your favors are?
oak parcel
just to be clear, are you asking how best to make your favors, or where to find ...
Just what to set up on my workshop for today that reflect the current seasons favours
magic star
bear in mind they can't necessarily be done in one day
unless you're very lucky with its favor picks
daring spear
Just what to set up on my workshop for today that reflect the current seasons fa...
click the favors button in the workshop interface and it'll show you what the furball wants. then plug those items (for the current season) into my tool or mienna's command to generate agendas to craft them effieciently
jaunty cosmos
@split kraken Could 4__4466__ be implemented as a no break alternative to avoid the efficiency break in WS3 when possible?
Example being my 
this week.
split kraken
<@149952405142765569> Could 4__**4**__46__**6**__ be implemented as a no break a...
It tries to make sure they link. It could try harder
jaunty cosmos
That's just the pattern I think would have the most uses that actually improves groove.
jaunty cosmos
Yeah like I said it'd be an alternative if it can avoid the break with it when it couldn't with the 4__4646__ but it's also totally fair if you don't want a conditional pattern
split kraken
Implemented
I wrote a method to just find a 10-hour pair that links two items
And if it fails to find something I just revert back to getting a 4hr link for the 6h craft and a 6hr link for the 4hr craft
But if there is any pair of 4-6 or 6-4 that links them, it should find it
magic star
I'm loving watching this improve in real time
frigid wyvern
apparently I had an example of that change in my own favors for this week, with schedule 3
just as another point of reference for how the bot's doing
...or no, do cod and rope link? they might not
okay, I'm just not fully awake yet then
either way, excellent job on both the bot and the spreadsheet, it'll make these a lot easier
frank berry
@daring spear Maybe have a note about that, so peeps don't waste time.
mint beacon
1st time messaging in this cha
T . But am going to say this felicitous favors hart's my head just trying to figure out what u guys r trying to figure out and make it work some how together with are normal daily recs . Are workshops when inland sanctuary came out was not this hard to figure out but then again it was just the workshops then now we got something else to work in some how .lol my brain is about to go boom just thanking about all this. Lol and thks 4 all the hard work posting all the daily recs every week 4 all of us it has helped me as a crafter with mailding my gear so thks guys 4 all your hard work.
daring spear
the pins in #💵︱island-chat explain and link to the two tools for generating agendas and when to craft them (ctrl+p to view pins)
alright, first pass of the new favors solver layout is in and should be producing valid agendas. dunno if I can pull off the extra 4-6/6-4 link in agenda 3, though
daring spear
closer to done, but not satisfied with the colors... ideas?
night sundial
daring spear
an edge case for an edge case... not sure I want to code something in for this. I know what the bot does (it swaps the blue crafts), but is that a rabbit hole I want to go down?
daring spear
eh, I'm going about it backward. the edge case is for a 6-8 link but without any 4 linkers for the 8. new sheet layout and logic are live in the public sheet now
pastel condor
The favor sheet is missing the 6h barbut craft... or am i missing something?
daring spear
it is, please pull a fresh copy to get that fix
bitter basin
...i have a small theory, but potentially unlikely
i just noticed we're having peaks in metalcrafts this week
both this person is getting a bonus in our metalcraft favor and so am i
i wonder (and this could be complete conjecture, i have no idea if this is correct) if, if one of your favors is going to peak, or rather whichever would end up being the strongest, that one would be the bonus?
i'd have to go back and look at a ton more screenshots first
like
okay
so if favors are still random
i am consistently seeing all of the screenshots from last week still marking metalcrafts as the bonuses
checked this, spruce round shield is also insuff/skyrocketing/low whick would suggest this is the strongest of the favors. checking the rest this is checking out #1158982225958809650 message
i think there's very genuine credence to this yeah and i don't think i've seen this discussed yet
so for your personal favors this, at minimum, gives you an idea potentially for what to gather. but that's really interesting
i'm just going off of this week, too. i'm not even looking at last week's which would probably be even more accurate
misty kettle
It marks the same row for everyone, 4, 6 or 8 hours. Are you suggesting that the bonus row, this week at 8h, is a subset of available crafts which will strong peak?
bitter basin
i think so
i'm very consistently seeing all of the bonus crafts that i check being the strongest of the favors when i check the supply & demand
our currently peaking craft, silver ear cuffs, is ALWAYS bonus if i see it on favors
same with scale fingers which is cooling off but still strong
marking it as the strongest of the 3
so no i dont think it's as standard as we really thought?
i'm not sure. it's just very consistent.
misty kettle
Supply and demand change daily, popularity is weekly
misty kettle
Silver ear cuffs will only appear on one line, and one line is always bonus
The same line for everyone
bitter basin
i wonder if there's any weight at all in perhaps making the bonus row be something popular then
making it not as completely random as we thought
misty kettle
It's an 8hr craft so will always appear on the 3rd row, which is bonus this week
misty kettle
Some people have bouillabaisse or garnet rapier
bitter basin
what i'm saying is, i wonder if the system they have at determining the favors, once the randomized bonus row is decided, just if there's always something that ensures that your bonus is always your strongest craft even if it's relatively weak overall compared to everything else if you end up exceptionally unlucky
random for everyone and set on a weekly basis so
misty kettle
I'm not disagreeing, btw, I'm just exploring your hypothesis
bitter basin
this week for everyone it's the 8hr craft
but the system weights the randomization so that the 8hr craft is going to be the strongest
yeah
i'd have to keep checking more screenshots but they're all continuing to check out
fluid fractal
out of my 5 characters your theory doesnt work, the bonus slot is not the same category.
bitter basin
what category are they in if not 8hr?
also i'm a dumbass i keep looking at predicted 🤦🏼♂️
fluid fractal
I mean they are in 8hr, but not restricted to a type. ie metalworks
bitter basin
oh, i didn't say they're all metalworks always
my theory is that the bonus category is weighted to be your strongest craft
i was initially not aware that everyone had the same bonus row so i was off at first
fluid fractal
okay
fluid fractal
you want all 5 screenshots instead?
bitter basin
okay, i found a good one to check
so THIS one disproves it. hm. islefish pie i think is the strongest here
bitter basin
you want all 5 screenshots instead?
i dont want to check them all, just give me one haha
fluid fractal
bitter basin
this one is a little hard to say unless iron axe gets stronger
so dunno for sure
i could be wrong ultimately, again
there's just been quite a few examples that do check out... 
full disclosure i just don't know the ins and outs enough of this dang system (nor is there enough info staring at this just today) to truly draw any hard conclusions. but i do think it's something to consider
like
i feel like mienna & co wouldve definitely noticed by now the popularity because i believe they were noting it so i am probably just polluting things
but hey let me have my 4am moment
magic star
is that latest version of the sheet?
there was an issue like that earlier yesterday that K fixed
misty kettle
I think it would be useful for Kaydeethree to know what the input was, if it is the latest
magic star
that too
if I'm remembering right that one was happening yesterday because the sheet wasn't able to handle the 4-4-4-4-8 case, but I might be wrong
misty kettle
Looks like Brass Serving Dish and Cavaliers Hat?
bitter basin
i got the latest one yeah
yes, dish/cav hat/pickled radish
but i messed around with recs a good bit once it popped up and it wouldn't to away
itty bitty screenie but if you zoom you can see the date matches the live one
hot hull
So I have 8 corn flakes to deliver this week for this, when I queue that up together with Sauerkraut I get efficiency bonus. When I queue up 3 corn flakes it says 5 is scheduled, this does not make sense to me. Does efficiency bonus somehow make sauerkraut count as corn flakes?
magic star
what does your queue look like?
an efficient craft counts as 2, so that sounds like you have 1 inefficient and 2 efficient corn flakes
hot hull
Right now I have corn flakes -> sauerkraut -> corn flakes -> sauerkraut -> corn flakes -> sauerkraut. On the felicitous favours overview it then says that I have 5 corn flakes scheduled.
magic star
yeah, that's why
you have 3x corn flakes there total, only the latter two are efficient
so 1+2+2
hot hull
So the efficiency bonus tagget sauerkrauts count as corn flakes in this case?
That's what I was confused about
magic star
no.
corn flake #1 is not efficient
so 1 shipped
the one after sauerkraut gets an efficiency link
-> 2 shipped
that's the whole thing about efficient crafts, they ship double despite only using 1x the mats
ideally you'd want to reorder that to kraut -> flakes -> kraut -> flakes -> kraut -> flakes to get 6
hot hull
Oh wow... looks like I have misunderstood something fundamental here then 🙂
Yeah I just did, and it gave me an extra
magic star
that's pretty much the lion's share of how/why the daily recs work, trying to get the extra valuable stuff to be efficient so we get double the cowries out of it
hot hull
Allright. I've just been following the bot without really understanding why it works, but that makes everything easier to understand, thanks for the answer! 🙂
magic star
np
that said
if you're trying to get your favors done
#1064380796556816384 has a favor solver
rather than trying to work it out by hand
hot hull
Oh, thank you. I will definitely check that out! 🙂
magic star
there's also the /favors command in #🚽︱bot-spam , either or
for future reference, this channel is mainly for theorycrafting/optimizing, but glad you learned something 🙂
hot hull
Oh, apologies for misusing the channel then, I figured my question fit here as it was about felicitous favors 🙂
magic star
no worries
but yeah, generally anything under #1034960519435649124 is for figuring out how things tick, for most questions just use #💵︱island-chat
wet beacon
what i'm saying is, i wonder if the system they have at determining the favors, ...
h m m m
bitter basin
yours is not the first one i've seen to show this but again it's hard to 100% determine off of today's supply and i could be completely talking out of my ass
but 
bitter basin
yeah
but someone's earlier was not at all following my theory
and i certainly wasn't cherrypicking ones that looked good lol
bitter basin
_ _
sleek bough
They are asking me potions and metal things (unlocked it today)
misty kettle
According to the chart, those could be c2 weak, c3 weak, C6 weak or c7 weak or strong
wet beacon
oh did the bot update for the new way to do favors?
sleek bough
I have no idea if i'm loosing cowries or not, but i tried to mix one of the favors they ask with C3 schedule, all 4 workshops 😅
magic star
"new way"?
wet beacon
These are completely different form what i got yesterday @_@
magic star
@split kraken would be able to answer if it takes updated supply/demand data into account or not, but I seem to recall some updates to the bot yesterday too
split kraken
These are completely different form what i got yesterday @_@
Yeah, I updated it to use ToonBaer's more efficient schedule. The old ones will still work fine!
magic star
I'm assuming favors doesn't take anything about supply/demand into account?
split kraken
Correct. You can use them on any schedule
magic star
👍 was just trying to rule out if that was contributing to the different answers
split kraken
Also, the bonus favor that's selected is static for everyone, just a specific timeslot of craft (4, 6, or 8hr). Crafts are picked at random and universally distributed, so it's not picking just strong peaks
There is 0 correlation between which favor has the bonus token and favors being good
wet beacon
That single culinary knife into rug is so funny lol
magic star
stab the rug!
vague chasm
do i understand it right that you can't get more than 70 favors per week?
bitter basin
There is 0 correlation between which favor has the bonus token and favors being ...
but yeah i had a feeling this could still be the case since you guys noted you were noting down popularity. even so it made me go 
so since i have not been able to sleep i wanted to look through some of the older screenshots here to see how much of it was lining up lol. if your overall data suggests otherwise though then that makes more sense 💯
bold sparrow
do i understand it right that you can't get more than 70 favors per week?
More of an #💵︱island-chat thing, but yes. Only 70 max a week.
daring spear
found a bug <@131586552122966016>
thanks for the report. I've just pushed a fix.
bitter basin
thanks for the report. I've just pushed a fix.
happy to help! thank you!!
dusty kestrel
Kind of glad im still using daily recs and not fortuneteller recs right now, so. my favours this week include the isleworks necklace, I figured I could swap some of the earrings in today's (tomorrow's) recs for the necklaces...
Am i right to assume Its safe to do that without ruining the Demand for necklaces further down the week? (if I use FT recs to compare and guesstimate...?)
daring spear
demand/popularity is static all week. supply goes up (which reduces the export value) with shipments. but at this point, if you're making favors you don't have need for more cowries and a little inefficency is fine
dusty kestrel
I suppose I meant supply. given the terms the game uses, yes. (I meant whichever semantics-shenanigans-they-use for the measuring of 'this reduces export value' so yes. Supply. thank you)
but I guess yeah youre right, I shouldnt worry about cowrie efficiency at this point.
Is there any piece of Data I can provide to add to the pool for whatever...math you're mathing on the favours?
trying to find the pattern on them or anything? 👀
magic star
I think we have all the data we need at this point
dusty kestrel
🫡
split kraken
Kind of glad im still using daily recs and not fortuneteller recs right now, so....
Do not worry about lowering the demand for necklaces. Just make them.
C3 is a perfect time for that
sleek bough
Sorry if i'm too stupid to figure out, but I understand that the only way to do favors is by not doing full the daily recommendations. Is that right? 😆
misty kettle
Unless your favors happen to align exactly to the recommendations, that is correct
sleek bough
Lovely, thank you 🥰😁
left sage
true, I need both brass dishes and scale fingers and would you look at that
calm girder
i'm not sure if this is the right place to say this, but the /favors bot doesn't list two of my three favor items although it's not too difficult to manually do the favors, just figured i'd point them out
unless i'm dumb and just can't find "fingers" "scale fingers" "juice" or "coconut juice" as any of my options available
alpine locust
i'm not sure if this is the right place to say this, but the /favors bot doesn't...
The options should definitely be there. Just to make sure, you're using the option given to you as you type "scale" and not just typing in "fingers" to move on to the next favor, right?
(the bot was also just down for a bit, dunno if that caused the issue as I just got on, saw people freaking out, and just was made aware of the issue, lol. It has since been fixed)
calm girder
(the bot was also just down for a bit, dunno if that caused the issue as I just ...
okay that might have been it because now the options for scale fingers is showing up lol
alpine locust
Sometimes the robobird just needs a good kick.
magic star
Sometimes the robobird just needs a good kick.
Needs a /brawk alias
broken pasture
I by no means understand how any of this works but is it possible that you can add a color indicator for crowie value (like red for bad, yellow for ok and green good) for each schedule in a given cycle so we can determine which schedule would be best for the current day.
misty kettle
The spreadsheet solver doesn't care about cowries by design, and doesn't have any supply data to colour-code from
The bot version probably won't do colour-coding, but I do agree that being able to see peaks would be helpful. But it should probably be separate from favors since you'd need to look at all crafts because the day your favor is peaking might not be the optimal day to craft it.
cosmic thorn
I dunno if this was noticed by anyone, but if you have your felicitous stuff on efficiency it counts the individual items shipped, so since silver ear cuffs were efficient today's recs took care of my bonus unintentionally @_@ (I just unlocked this like 30 minutes ago. . . )
left sage
I dunno if this was noticed by anyone, but if you have your felicitous stuff on ...
Oh this confirms a little thought I had in that favors is NOT retroactive when you unlock it, because the other 6 you made already didn't count
cosmic thorn
correct
it counts only items 'actively' shipping, I guess?
but it counts all of them individually, which is cool. I thought I was going to have to craft another 4 ear cuffs, but I didn't think about it counting the individual items shipped rather than the agenda items set to craft.
left sage
Could either be that it doesn't open up the bucket to stuff things in until you unlock favors, OR it doesn't generate your personal favor agenda until it's unlocked(so it's blank until you unlock it)
It most likely serves to introduce the player to how the favor system works when unlocked and how things collect versus the edge cases where a player may have shipped a whole bunch of things earlier that were favors they suddenly get favors from by talking to Feli and not knowing WHY until next season
tight pine
woops that's in french... sorry
that's butter/spectacles/Popoto pie
Honey/Vegetable juice/Cristal statue ?
misty kettle
Hmm, the mammet statue name in French makes so much more sense 😁
clear siren
I am new and trying to understand that felicitous favors, but anyone know the reason why my potion isnt check marked after shipping 8/8?
clear siren
Thank you ❤️
keen wren
I just unlocked the favors so I only have 2 days to complete for this season. So I guess this time around I should just slam all my workshops with my favors?
Normally, does it make sense to just replace recs with favors that will keep the groove going?
misty kettle
Please see the pins in #💵︱island-chat for tools and strategies. Any questions about favors should also be directed there (this is a research thread).
keen wren
My bad thanks!
wet beacon
I dunno if this was noticed by anyone, but if you have your felicitous stuff on ...
Efficiency basically means you craft two of the item instead of one. So yeah, it "ships" two to favors instead of one if its a efficient craft,
misty kettle
That wasn't the question this time!
It was "I shipped 8, why isn't it complete?"
Which is because you have to talk to the mammet to get the reward
shrewd spoke
Does anyone know if I should go after the lock boxes or the 200 vouchers? Not sure if the lockboxes are worth it or not
misty kettle
200 vouchers = 29 weeks to obtain the adenium (can be faster with buying vouchers)
Materiel container - can drop the adenium (~1% drop rate), perifool, glams, furnishing, minions and dyes
Question is, do you want the adenium absolutely guaranteed, or do you want to take the risk and make some gil along the way?
Since you get 7 coffers a week, the materiel container is statistically the faster route, but RNG is RNG and it may never drop for you
shrewd spoke
Thank you so much for this info, was not sure if the adenium mount also dropped from the lockboxes, so yeah I guess lockboxes are the way to go, 29 weeks is way to much of a grind for something you can also have the chance to get in the lockboxes anyway (among other things)
subtle grail
parsnip salad, essential draught , bouillabaisse for 'this week'
isloaf, macuahuitl, pickled radish for 'next week'
did you want us to report on which item(s) are designated "bonus"
daring spear
nah, we have enough info. thank you though
subtle grail
did this thread still need favor inputs?
daring spear
the favors will be any craft that is not low popularity
negative. thank you for thinking of us, though
scarlet plinth
hi2, just unlocked this in game. Wondering if the 4th workshop is sacrifice is the go to method since everyone has apparaently different requirement?
sorry if this is not the right place to ask question
daring spear
yes. please see the pins in #💵︱island-chat for a quick summary, or the favors tab of #1064380796556816384 for a longer summary
flint moat
The /favors command from the bot doesn’t give you enough to fulfill all the favors for the week, it only gives you about half. Is that correct?
Also, it doesn’t seem possible to fit all of them into the 4th workshop, seem to be short by about 12 hours
magic star
nope
efficient crafts are double
and depending on whether your favors link or not, it'll be either 4 or 5 cycles
flint moat
OH wow I didn’t know that, thank you!
magic star
yep, that's why the regular workshop always links the hell out of things
double the crafts (ergo cowries) for the same mats
flint moat
Yeah I didn’t realize the favors also doubled
magic star
yep, it follows all the same rules as a workshop craft, how many you ship is all that matters
you can verify that if you put in the schedules and then ask the favors mammet how many are scheduled
sleek bough
Hmm, how does the workshop count the things? I need for next session favors 8 potions. I used kd3's sheet to plan my schedule, so i got 3 potions in 1st day and another 3 on second day, but it counts as a total of 10 🤔
magic star
See above, if a craft is efficient it makes 2
So if your first craft of the day is potion, that will make 1, but if it's linked later in the day, that will make 2
magic star
A lot of people are now learning this 🙂
It's pretty much the basis of how the weekly recs make so much money
sleek bough
I thought just that the products sells at gold price hahahahaha, i don't understand very much about. Thank you again 😄
magic star
Np!
languid lintel
magic star
no need for these any more thanks
abstract hinge
Do you get more fabor if you OVER deliver? or is 70/week max?
light orchid
since this is my first week doing favors - I just set up my workshop and it so happened that shark oil is one of my favors this week. So setting the recommended schedule tells me I have 12 shark oils scheduled (I need to ship 8) - so that just means this workshop cycle will bang out that particular favor
without having to worry about setting it later
magic star
indeed
light orchid
is it telling me 12 are scheduled bc shark oil is bonus?
magic star
it's because efficient crafts
magic star
assuming you're following C2's recs
each workshop has Shark Oil being crafted efficiently twice
ergo 4 shark oil per workshop
x3 -> 12
light orchid
ye
magic star
(note favors does not care if you overship)
light orchid
I kinda like favors a little bit. It adds a little decision making on my day to day when I'm setting the schedule. Not MUCH, but more than before lol
eg: all of my favors this week are pretty common crafts so I'm just playing it by ear for like 1 or 2 more days
magic star
the bonus just means completing that specific favor nets you an extra 10 compared to usual
e.g. in your case shark oil probably shows up as Reward 30 I believe?
light orchid
oh no I meant like efficiency bonus not favor bonus
shark oil is not my favor bonus but it is efficiency bonus
(u answered it either way tho ty!(
magic star
np
that's why the recs in general try to go for efficiency always
since it crafts and ships 2x the items for 1x the mats
and consequently double the cowries
lucid ruin
how doe the favors system work? If i complete the next weeks favors, do I collect them this week? or is it just showing it in the crafting choices just because?
magic star
it just shows them so you can plan
(or schedule next week ahead of time
you can't collect/complete them in any week other than when they're due
magic star
np
as a general note btw, this is mainly a research thread, so please keep general favors questions to #💵︱island-chat
split kraken
Yeah idk if this is serving a purpose anymore
Aside from being a honeypot for people to ask questions we don’t want them to
night sundial
btw the bot only saying "mammet award" for the "mammet of the cycle award" is making the automatic workshop plugins not recognize the name, idk how much yall care to fix these kind of things.
magic star
I don't think anyone here is responsible for said plugins
night sundial
it's not about the plugins, it's just suggesting you change the name to "mammet of the cycle award" as it shows in game, but if yall don't care it's w/e
magic star
So the problem is
That name is very long
And it makes formatting the recs a pain if it shows up
magic star
So it's not just a matter of fixing it for a third party scraper, prio 1 is making it readable/usable for people here
In any case OT for this thread
pulsar talon
I have a question. If none of your three crafts for the week can connect to give bonuses, and the 8 hour craft is in a category that doesn’t have a 4 hour craft, would you need more than 5 workshops?
magic star
I don't think any such 8 exists
night sundial
i think the consensus for favors is you just suck it up and lose the efficiency.
magic star
To my knowledge there are none that will force > 5 days
night sundial
doesn't mammet not have a 4h craft?
pulsar talon
On console so I just took a pic of it with my phone. Is anyone able to make the mammet one work? Currently I’m using more than five workshops.
daring spear
use the tools linked in the pins of #💵︱island-chat to see how to make efficient agendas
night sundial
I don't think any such 8 exists
yup mammet does not have a 4h.
misty kettle
btw the bot only saying "mammet award" for the "mammet of the cycle award" is ma...
To add more than to what KiltedYaksman said - not only do we not maintain those plugins, the admins do not endorse and not longer allow discussion of UI automation. So if the parsing of the recommendations fails because of the way the recommendations are formatted or phrased, that is an issue for those plugin maintainers.
night sundial
cool mate, i understood the first time
ornate plaza
Random question that may have been asked already: For the fortune teller reqs, would it be possible to add the estimated cowrie amount for each day so we could potentially use those for our favors? Or is sacrificing W4 on the first few cycles generally just better than sacrificing W1-4 on the bad cycle(s)?
I figure long term / favor could give an optimized fortune teller favor prediction too but that’s probably a pain in the butt to calculate right now😆
magic star
FT can't really give those
at the point that FT's generated there's not enough peak information known to accurately estimate those
realistically it's looking like an optimized favor computation is going to be infeasible because of computational complexity
and for most people by the time they're at favors cowries probably aren't a primary concern anyways
so realistically the advice is probably just going to stay with the strategies suggested in #1163526454496206888
ornate plaza
Yeah it totally doesn’t matter I just like min/maxing LOL. Does fortune teller not make a best guess at the value in order to make the schedule rankings though? Just curious
magic star
it does but it's with imperfect information
since it only has C1 and C2's data to work with, it doesn't have complete visibility on the peaks, which means any estimates it tries to give for actual cowrie amounts are likely to be wrong
so if we did include those, we would inevitably end up with tons of people complaining about how they were wrong and messed up their plans
(not to mention everybody's values are going to end up slightly different due to the variations introduced by the favors anyhow)
ornate plaza
Yeah I get they’re not perfectly accurate, I dunno though still seems worthwhile to me? They would inherently come with the same disclaimer as using the fortune teller ref in the first place, not that that would stop people from complaining anyway of course 🤣
magic star
yeah, it's just easier to not deal with the hassle when you can't provide correct numbers anyhow
ornate plaza
Fair enough
magic star
the people that do want to min-max are almost inevitably going to be the same ones that would also complain if you fail them at it
ornate plaza
LOL also fair XD