Extended Support for Shader-Based Games

[median juniper]

i see.

[eternal crest]

Ok, so let's backtrack a bit, for that shot with the case of barnyard, was this done by manually finding matrices?

[wild lark]

that one was not, no. it was another method. i was in the process of implementing the matrix stuff while testing that. it was just a proof of concept. proved that a generic wrapper could sit between a game and remix and do things like this without breaking remix

since then i've been testing the wrapper in various games to see if my matrix detection code is working properly, and trying to find other ways to make identifying them easier/more robust

but it's over my head, which is why i need help with it

[winter needle]

Hm

[wild lark]

https://zero-irp.github.io/ViewProj-Blog/

#1323392798963142788 message

i was using these two things as guidelines for developing the wrapper

xor's steps as the end goal for what the wrapper does, and the blog's info and steps on detecting and utilizing matrices to achieve it

[dawn aurora]

What’s the end goal for that tho? Having matrices and the game pathtracing is one thing but what’s the use if you can not replace any meshes

[median juniper]

textures would still be able to be replaced right?

[wild lark]

it's supposed to be able to re-render the game in fixed function afterward for remix to use

[dawn aurora]

For that you also need to find per model transforms and I don’t think that you can reliably find that (generically for all d3d9 titles). You’d also need to have fitting vertex formats to be able to render with FF or you’d have to rewrite all of the buffers somehow. That can be really expensive depending on the implementation

[wild lark]

soooo would you recommend we give up 😓

it wasn't intended to be an automated or easy solution, it was just meant to be an easier way to do what you did for those other games

find the required information easier and make it easier to apply it

but if it comes at a massive perf cost it may not be worthwhile anyway

[dawn aurora]

If there would be a tool that you could run that suggest potential matrix locations or function addresses, it would certainly be helpful to speed up r/e. Not having to start at the very beginning will speed up r/e

[wild lark]

it does that 🙂

what if we implemented the basic fixed function rendering just to see if the matrix works as expected, but not for normal usage?

[alpine breach]

Geometry that's handled by shaders could already be interpreted by vertex and pixel shader compat by remix, no? We've seen it somewhat work. Best example being Metal Gear Rising

[wild lark]

anything done with vertex shaders won't work with model replacements in remix 🙁

that's my main motivation for doing this

[alpine breach]

Sorry if this has been already answered somewhere up but, what does this wrapper do besides what CR has done by forcing a fake game-agnostic camera

[wild lark]

it's very different. it's a wrapper that goes on top of the game and is loaded before remix. it's supposed to be able to help you find the view and projection matrices to be able to render shader based games fully in fixed function instead of with shaders

it's a form of what xor did with the COD games, just trying to make it more accessible

[alpine breach]

Ooohh

[wild lark]

it'll require manual work but it's easier than starting from scratch on each game

[alpine breach]

More like a universal camera matrices extraction solution

[wild lark]

given this we might refocus it just to be a toolkit for finding matrices easily. but i'd still like to try the full implementation first to see if it's viable

i did experiemnt with vertex formats already and didn't really notice any performance issues

so i'm hopeful

[median juniper]

have you found help yet or are you still looking?

[wild lark]

found a couple people interested. but it's gonna be a while before anything happens with it

[median juniper]

dang

both barnyard and HW Stunt Track Challenge shouldve been fully compatable, but Im guessing both are crappy console ports 😭

[wild lark]

barnyard supports fixed function... kiiinda 🤣

apparently they forgot to finish implementing the fixed function support because most terrain simply won't render in that mode

[median juniper]

how do i check if something does support fixed function?

Grok is my only teamate on the one game i want to work xD

[wild lark]

prooobably use claude instead. but all LLMs suck when it comes to game compatibility stuff, esp with Remix

[median juniper]

Lots of elements are missing with the extended shader build. and the captures are borked, hang on let me find the screenshot of how it looked

[wild lark]

just test and see really. if you can use it in Remix without the experimental shader settings enabled, it's fixed function

DX9.0b and lower are more likely to be fixed function. but Barnyard is DX8 and has shaders, so it's not a given

[median juniper]

it doesnt work without the settings turned on. HOWEVER ther is one render target that does get affected by remix, though it just fills the screen with purple

but there is one that works without the shader compat camera

ah here it is

[wild lark]

games rendered using vertex shaders may work but won't be compatible with model replacements or lights in the toolkit

[median juniper]

see how everything is skewed in a weird manner? that is also what happens when someone does try to use ninja ripper. Well I know 100% it does it on Velocity X (different Engine) but im sure it does the same on WR and STC

[median juniper]

not even lights? 😭 Some parts are pitch black and while I was able to beat it just fine if you dont know the game, you will have some difficult times with rtx enabled

[wild lark]

you're stuck with emissive textures for lighting

that's what i did in Barnyard

[median juniper]

game doesnt really have a ton of those

[wild lark]

all of the lighting here is from emissives

[median juniper]

I guess I'll have to go through and make emissive maps for everything lol

[wild lark]

ya

[median juniper]

well I am willing to do it, once the game is stable without the shader option. and the sky working

if i dont mark the sky, it would be a bubble that blocks your view all around your car

[craggy sluice]

what kind of tool is that? Where can I get/compile it?

[median juniper]

it isnt out yet. still in the making phase. I'm not well versed in the coding stuff but it is supposed to help identify matrices (i dont know that those are tbh) for you to apply them in remix to potentially fix some troublesome games that should've work if they weren't oddly designed (or a cheap console port). Might have gotten that wrong but that is somewhat the idea i think

[craggy sluice]

Sounds great

[rugged trail]

it isn't a halo situation where parts of it are fixed function and other parts of it are software, right?

[median juniper]

wait parts of Custom Edition are forced to use Software?

No wonder the game is very broken when playing some custom campaigns with rtx

i say campaigns but only tested one

[rugged trail]

from I'm told and based off I've found poking around, the game uses actual vertex shaders running on the cpu (so software) lol

used for the character models and scenery objects

[median juniper]

Bruh

[wild lark]

afaik no, nothing that bad

it's just missing fixed function rendering for a lot of the terrain

[rugged trail]

ahhh
that's good at least

[winter needle]

tried lego indiana jones but it just wont start up for whatever reason and blacks out

[median juniper]

All lego games dont seem to work well

[median herald]

Just tried Blur. It is just broken same with base rtx-remix

[lilac kelp]

did you enable the fake camera?

[median herald]

Is this it?

[trim pine]

nope

[median herald]

Sorry but where do I find it?

[trim pine]

https://github.com/sambow23/dxvk-remix-gmod/releases/tag/a8192ec-shdr get this build

goto "Game Setup > Step 2: Parameter Tuning > Shader Support (Experimental) > Fake Camera"

[median herald]

It's all black now.

[trim pine]

try fallback light

set it to Always and distant to sphere

[median herald]

this is something

[alpine breach]

Inject fake camera

[trim pine]

i think he did

oh wait

nvm

[median herald]

I haven't yet but It didn't change anything

[trim pine]

try and use the free camera you found before

[median herald]

some epileptic things going on now xd

oh it's because I changed the scene

I think It won't work. At least not on my hands

[alpine breach]

@lilac kelp how is the shader support remix version able to retrieve mesh attributes and capture mesh normal data, could you explain if this is something you've worked on?

[lilac kelp]

Nope, didn't work on any of that, only change in that runtime is setting fake camera matrices

[alpine breach]

Who should I ask about this then

[lilac kelp]

Mark if not already maybe?

[alpine breach]

Oh it's Mark? 👀

[lilac kelp]

No, iirc he mentioned someone on the remix team who works with the shader stuff a lot more. I was suggesting him as a good point of contact

[alpine breach]

Alright...I'm having some problems with forwarding mesh normals from the game to remix but I guess if this is already there then no need

[elder pollen]

any updates for the shader runtime or is it still the pinned one? @lilac kelp

[lilac kelp]

still the pinned one

[wild lark]

pinned this as a placeholder message

[winter needle]

@lilac kelp

[lilac kelp]

hai

[winter needle]

looking into it its another telltale engine so it has the same issue that mcsm has

where most textures are loaded via rendertarget or what it is

[elder pollen]

Any advice on hooking into Telltale games?

There’s one I want to try

[winter needle]

dont

[elder pollen]

But it’s a really cool game

[winter needle]

not worth it

[elder pollen]

So worth it