Skyrim Legendary Edition

[spiral hare]

No fallback light yet?

[soft shoal]

interestingly it only works with one of the view modes. "in world view" breaks it

i decided to just try to get the sky working well enough instead of relying on it

[spiral hare]

You sure it's just not underground?

[soft shoal]

well, it partially works. it's just definitely not in the place it's supposed to be, and no amount of tweaking fixes it

could be that i'm just messing it up. the other view mode (can't remember the name) just works better overall anyway though

[spiral hare]

fused world view? Doesn't it move the light around the camera

[soft shoal]

i'm gonna launch it so i know what i'm talking about

also as warning, i just woke up so i'm a bit groggy, lol

[spiral hare]

Oh it's view transform

that moves the light with the camera

[soft shoal]

here's a comparison. something changes in the image, but i really can't tell what. "In World Transform" looks better to me though

this is with fallback off btw

ohh this comparison helped a ton

look in the distance at the trees

[spiral hare]

yea immediately saw

[soft shoal]

it's so laggy in game that it's hard to tell well, lol

[spiral hare]

Yea I saw because I can constantly switch between the two

[soft shoal]

this game also has the issue with some things being marked as opacity when they shouldn't be

entire mountains are, rooftops are, and some other things

[spiral hare]

This is a common issue actually

I mention this in the threads I create

[soft shoal]

interesting

so far i've only run into it on Barnyard

[spiral hare]

In bf1942 for example, everything but the terrain is red

[soft shoal]

ouch

[spiral hare]

So it all disappears if I turn off alpha

[soft shoal]

didn't someone make a script to automatically mark all captured materials as non opacity?

i might give that a try

[spiral hare]

Well didn't we?

[soft shoal]

i don't remember. it'd be funny if i made it though

[spiral hare]

With a slight modification to the RoseQQ's script

[soft shoal]

oh yeaah it was you

[spiral hare]

It didn't worked

[soft shoal]

only for Barnyard

we theorized it had a thin plane overlaying the rest of the visuals, causing it to always look like it was marked as opacity

but it did actually change in OV iirc

[spiral hare]

OV has that debug view too?

or you mean the general look

[soft shoal]

it has the flag showing if something is marked as opacity

it changed that flag

[spiral hare]

Yea but it should do that either way shouldn't it

[spiral hare]

I am still skeptical about this

[soft shoal]

i'm not sure what you mean. the script you adjusted changed the flag marking objects as opacity. it should have worked, i think it's just Barnyard that's broken

i can't find it. i'll try it on Skyrim if i can

[spiral hare]

I mean it probably just checks for that property we changed and not the way remix runtime determines if its alpha or not

[soft shoal]

#1106420949257044061 message

[spiral hare]

So it should display that correctly no matter if it works in game or not

[soft shoal]

changing an object's opacity flag should change it in the debug view from my understanding? that's an interesting idea/question though

i guess i'll find out right now

lol Skyrim crashed before i could capture

[spiral hare]

Btw this is what fallback lights with view transform mode looks like

[soft shoal]

sadly nothing

[soft shoal]

that's good to know, i wasn't aware of the difference before

[spiral hare]

Yea but it does something else actually so it makes some games work better (FarCry for instance)

[soft shoal]

yeah, i've had to bounce between the two depending on the game

initially FlatOut required it too iirc

[spiral hare]

@main oasis What exactly does the view transform mode? Some games don't work correctly without it. For instance in Far Cry everything but terrain is gone in the default world transform mode whereas with view transform its fine

[soft shoal]

riding on that ping, how can we properly disable opacity flags on objects like what's shown above? and will the debug view reflect these changes

[main oasis]

umm, what is a view transform mode? Are you talking about the Fused World-View Mode setting?

[spiral hare]

Yes this one

[main oasis]

hmm, the comment on that one is incredibly unhelpful

It seems to just be a matter of setting whether the game sends the objectToWorld and worldToView matrices separately, or together. You should get a [RTX-Compatibility] Fused warning in the log if you set it in a way that doesn't actually match what the game is actually doing

[supple slate]

ive had a few issues trying to run and mess around with this project. i keep getting crashes after clicking new game. any way to fix it? ive looked into differnt things that could be the issue but no hope unfotunely.

[supple slate]

i get to this screen fine, then once i click new it starts and then after about a second it crashes. once it made it to the opening of the game for about five seconds and then it crashed. im using a 3060TI and a Ryzen 5 5600x

im lauching it through the script extender and ive installed all files listed in the pinned message too

[soft shoal]

hmmmmm

well

that pin is out of date and i forgot to update it. sorry

hang on

[supple slate]

ahh alright thank you!

[supple slate]

ahh thank you!!

[soft shoal]

there ya go. take a look at the pin again

it's all updated

[supple slate]

im guessing i just replace the config file yeah

[soft shoal]

yeah, the old one was pretty out of date

[supple slate]

thank you so much

[soft shoal]

sadly things are so broken that i doubt you'll have much fun with this 😛

but i hope you do

[supple slate]

thank you anyways! i just wanna see what i can do with it

found an issue with the main NvRemixBridge. it says 'Server was invoked with invalid GUID'

doing a driver update just in case

[soft shoal]

interesting

and you're on the latest Remix now? followed the stuff in #remix-beginners-guide?

[supple slate]

yes

[soft shoal]

you should probably start a new save and get through the intro without remix

just rename d3d9.dll

[supple slate]

alright ill try thank you!

[soft shoal]

@supple slate

try this save

C:\Users\USER\Documents\My Games\Skyrim\Saves

[supple slate]

will do!

that loaded fine so ill try with the d3d9 now

still crashed unfortunately

[soft shoal]

not sure what's going on then

what are your specs?

[supple slate]

3060TI, Ryzen 5 5600x, 32Gb RAM

[soft shoal]

also send all 3 logs please. d3d9.log, [gamename]_d3d9.log, and the log file in .trex

[supple slate]

got it

[soft shoal]

[00:05:09.274] err: Multiple active BridgeCommand instances detected!

make sure there's no bridge running in the background with task manager

that happens to me quite often

[supple slate]

rick

*right

[soft shoal]

should be NvRemixBridge.exe

[supple slate]

i restarted my pc and its giving the same error in the logs

[soft shoal]

i honestly don't know how that's possible

i have no idea what's going on in that case

[supple slate]

no worries then ill see what else i can do

thank you anyways

[soft shoal]

you should try Remix in another game to see if it happens there too

[supple slate]

ok

[soft shoal]

any luck?

[supple slate]

sadly no

[chilly crypt]

same stuff that happens with the oblivion project except for terrain patches on my end

plus game rasterizes when turning camera in a certain way

my providing files plus some of the edits werideforcoffee had for the rtx config

[supple slate]

Ah thank you!! I’ll try them later!!

[small rover]

Progress inquiry, is Skyrim LE working in Remix fully? And how stable is the game running so far?

[soft shoal]

it's very broken

you can run the game without much crashing, but the amount of visual issues renders the game pretty much unplayable right now

[soft shoal]

right now these are the issues with Skyrim:

• culling
• hundreds (maybe even over a thousand) textures that need to be assigned to prevent issues
• mods would need to be made to assign lights, and port them through to Remix through SKSE (similar was done with NVSE for FNV)
• ideally a lot of shaders would need to be reverse engineered to be made compatible with Remix
• stability issues
• normal maps detected as albedo maps
• particles are mapped improperly
• water is broken

[lone timber]

The SE shaders at least have been fully reverse engineered by the Community Shaders project, CommonLib also makes script extender projects much headier compared to the largely abandoned LE version.

How much that helps is another matter though, as SE from an engine perspective is much newer than LE

[glass igloo]

basically making remix skyrim compatible is doable. But you need lot of time and knowledge to do that. And there is remastered version of skyrim that cant do remix.

so there is very little incentive to tweak skyrim enough to get remix fully working without glitches on it.

[lone timber]

Realistically it may be easier to implement native ray tracing on top of Community shaders than to path oldrim to support Remix.

[ashen sonnet]

are we actuallly getting closer?

[soft shoal]

not really

[covert pawn]

Czech thee south...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4xr59B_90

Attached the light to one mesh , but it doesnt care.Just wants to follow the main camera.The options in game setup dont seem to help anchor it to the world instead of the camera

or rather its attached to the distance only not the angle of the camera

[soft shoal]

yeah, this is the problem i documented before: https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/rtx-remix/issues/181

there's a total of 5 games that have this issue (that i'm aware of)

[storm tusk]

very cool

[ashen sonnet]

very nice

[ashen sonnet]

Has there not been any updates since?!

[soft shoal]

it's severely unstable. i pinned the reasons why it's not really worth working on right now

Darko may still be making progress. i personally am not working on it anymore and won't be until some of the issues are fixed through Remix updates, or until someone with SKSE knowledge comes along

[covert pawn]

Not touched et since then, not gonna either.

[dull ivy]

I keep it on my back-burner. Every now and then I throw a new version of Remix at it, and keeping it in mind for when I return to making remix tools.
Just trying to nurse my way outta burnout at the moment.
The tools Im making for Bethesda games should make Skyrim easier but they will need porting... after... theyre like actually done in the first place 😅

Otherwise Im in the same camp as Kim and Darko.

[soft shoal]

i test it periodically as well, no solid improvements yet 😦

[ashen sonnet]

So I emailed one of the main Dev’s of skse last night and he responded stating he doesn’t think it would work since it’s a dx11 , but told him to come join the discord

He also thought we were talking about SE but he might feel different about LE

[soft shoal]

yeah, LE definitely works

hopefully he can provide some good insight

[spare lion]

So can someone explain why this 2011 game can work while others from 2006 can’t?

Also, why not Special edition?

[soft shoal]

SE is DX11. Remix needs DX9

[soft shoal]

Bethesda uses a very old engine as a base for their games, Skyrim included. this allows it to be more compatible than other games which use newer engines

[unique abyss]

Some games had support for an old way of doing graphics for the sake of running on old GPUs, whilst other games didn’t bother as it was incredibly outdated and limiting even in 2006. That old way of doing graphics is what Remix relies on to interpret information from a game, so if a game doesn’t support that then it won’t work.

[spiral hare]

For instance some foss game rendering engines like irrlicht and ogre still support fixed function dx9 thus there are even games working perfectly fine from 2020s
By release date, I think this is the newest: https://discord.com/channels/1028444667789967381/1155207505580933131
https://discord.com/channels/1028444667789967381/1167003538723975218 works with the latest version (2022),
https://discord.com/channels/1028444667789967381/1147888305833246782 latest version works is from 2021

[unique abyss]

2014 Roblox could have path tracing lmao.

[ashen sonnet]

Very strange

I’m crossing my fingers that dev takes the link I sent for the discord and saves the day

https://tenor.com/view/save-the-day-dad-of-gif-23088646

[spiral hare]

What are you counting on them to do?

[ashen sonnet]

Properly assigning lights with SKSE

Or port them

It’s the SKSE developers

[spiral hare]

To dx9 ? I don't think this will ever happen ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen sonnet]

Hence the S in the gif

I’m not knowledgeable in the topic, but people here have said that SKSE and it’s functionality can fix assigning lights

Plus assuming SKSE developers know the Bethesda engine and it’s functions , it’s worth a shot maybe they might have fixes for other topics

[soft shoal]

nice username

[unique abyss]

Thanks, took a while to think of it.

[soft shoal]

in FNV, there are some community made patches to fix a lot of things through xNVSE

examples:

• pass through light sources from the base game
• remove some meshes that break visuals
• (soon) a mod that removes all fake AO objects to prevent vertex corruption

if we can pass through light sources with SKSE as well, we can then place new lights with mods for the base game instead of relying on Remix. this should be good enough

[spiral hare]

Am I mistaken, or SKSE refers to Skyrim Special Edition which is dx11?

[soft shoal]

Skyrim Script Extender

[spiral hare]

uh

[soft shoal]

https://skse.silverlock.org/

i can see where the confusion comes from

[spiral hare]

Yea, so you refer as SSE instead?

to special edition

[ashen sonnet]

No

[unique abyss]

SSE = Special Edition

SKSE = Script extender

[ashen sonnet]

Skse is a script extender that is on both SSE and classic Skyrim

[soft shoal]

i just always said Skyrim SE or SE

didn't think to use SSE, lol

[ashen sonnet]

Yeah some people say sse but I always se too lol but I think he’s confusing the 2

[lone timber]

LE and Oldrim are common for the 2011 Skyrim version, SE, SSE and AE for the new version

[glass igloo]

i think skyrim LE needs skse level expert for remaster. And there is no incentive to work on it

other than it would be funny to do a remaster of original skyrim

[ashen sonnet]

Yeah he’s not interested guys

I asked if he knew someone in the team who might

But he knows how to do it he just doesn’t want to lol

[soft shoal]

that's a shame, but not unexpected really. i haven't seen many people in older modding communities interested in Remix

[ashen sonnet]

I wonder why though

[soft shoal]

our best bet is asking around in Skyrim modding circles for anyone who can reasonably use SKSE for such things

[soft shoal]

from what i've seen, people just like the game the way it is with some fixes. another modding community i was involved in was the same way

it makes sense, but it also sucks

a whole new renderer changes the game entirely for them, and they just don't like that

[ashen sonnet]

I’ll keep looking

I feel like pure dark would know a thing or 2

Atleast I can play like this until then

https://youtu.be/1FrdpzHpQ0Q?si=RUrKouEjp1J0ykiq

[soft shoal]

we just need to find someone like BlueAmulet for this. just a community member who knows their stuff

i'm personally not too invested or interested in Skyrim so i haven't up until now. i might though

[ashen sonnet]

So rtx essentially traces the light sources, but what does Lux do?

Ah so you wouldn’t know about the lux mod?

[soft shoal]

nope, was just about to ask what it is, lol

Consistent and complete rework of Skyrim interiors lighting. This mod takes advantage of the latest developments in enb, including enb light, and has for main objective to offer a gaming experience as realistic as it is dramatic.
it just seems to utilize ENB to overhaul lighting

[proper perch]

Skyrim Special Edition has Community Shaders anyway, adds in a clustered lighting system that allows for a ton of lights at realtime, and also true lighting instead of enb's fake lights.

[woven vale]

we don't play on LE. if people want to do sse things, I'll help.

LE is not fixed function, so you will have issues

[soft shoal]

is there no one that can help with LE?

and SSE will never work

[woven vale]

to the extent you would need, no

Nvidia have another project for RT on dx11

[soft shoal]

to give you an example of what we'd need, here's the equivalent project for NVSE: https://github.com/BlueAmulet/NewVegasRTXHelper

[soft shoal]

what do you mean? that'd probably take reverse engineering the entire renderer

[woven vale]

disable broken render passes sounds like it would be incomplete

[woven vale]

we largely have already

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/KickstartRT

[soft shoal]

in FNV's case, the differences aren't noticeable. afaik it disabled things that'd have been replaced by Remix's renderer anyway

also because Remix can replace all assets with meshes and PBR materials without affecting the base game's engine, it doesn't matter much

[woven vale]

debating this is pointless to me

if it can register geometry and perform diffuse GI etc. i can work something out via SKSE. don't need 99% of what remix offers.

[soft shoal]

i didn't know it was a debate, lol. i appreciate your insight, but in the end you're telling us to drop this project which is something we don't really want to do. the potential of Remix is higher than a dedicated ray traced renderer in SSE, as you can use very high polygon meshes without affecting the base game. Creation Engine really struggles with a lot of replacement assets

and for what it's worth, Skyrim does work right now. we just needed some small patches in SSE to fix some visual bugs

[woven vale]

Skyrim runs fine with high poly meshes actually

[soft shoal]

replacing everything in a given scene?

[woven vale]

if you give me something testable I'll take a look

[soft shoal]

the instructions are pinned already

[woven vale]

ah on mobile it doesn't show

will check out later thanks

[soft shoal]

thanks for taking a look

[woven vale]

its a black screen with some white bits

i installed the inis, the config file

launched with skse

[woven vale]

.

[soft shoal]

where are you in the game?

[woven vale]

companions

[soft shoal]

the main area that works is Riverwood

the other areas weren't configured or tested yet

[woven vale]

does the menu work for you though

because for me theres only menu buttons, no text

[soft shoal]

like the pause menu? that worked fine for me. general UI was not working properly though

[woven vale]

im ingame in riverwood

but lighting is seriously broken

theres no specular textures or normal maps

its like it's only the raw vertices with uvs mapped to the diffuse texture

skyrim has 11000 shader permutations

trees are not animating

[soft shoal]

yes, there are issues. a lot of that stuff is fixable through manual assignment in the toolkit

but we need patches to justify the work. the main patches that we'd need to progress are similar to the NVSE patches:

• lighting passthrough from the base game (so we can place lights in the original game through mods to show up in Remix)
• rework culling (so reflections function correctly and so there's no light bleed)
• preferably a rework of water, as that doesn't show up at all currently

culling is less of a necessity

[woven vale]

first two dont matter, fix the shaders first

water is very complicated. again, shaders

[soft shoal]

i understand this stuff

[woven vale]

it looks like remix is completely ignoring the shaders. which makes sense because the game is not fixed function

[soft shoal]

they'd have to be rewritten as fixed function to work here

[woven vale]

so you need to modify remix and reimplement 11000 shaders

so not possible nor testible

don't waste my time

[soft shoal]

dude, you joined here and started asking about it. stop being an asshat and maybe we can get somewhere

like really. you're not giving me any time explain what the problems are or how they actually work with Remix

the majority of the shaders do not matter. there are only some that need to be fixed, but realistically we can ignore all of them and reimplement them through Remix with time and work

water and trees are about the only things that need to be redone here. the rest can be fixed manually in Remix

[woven vale]

if you manually replace all assets yeah

[soft shoal]

which was the goal to begin with

[woven vale]

that sounds like an impossible task though

[soft shoal]

there are many ongoing projects in this server that are replacing the majority of assets. for Skyrim it'd be no different

we would leave a lot of smaller assets or things like walls that look fine enough with their default meshes

but any particularly low poly or problematic assets would be redone

[woven vale]

but i just said normals and specular lighting don't work

[soft shoal]

it doesn't matter because those can be redone in Remix

[woven vale]

so it sounds like grand plans with none of the basics done

"we would leave a lot of smaller assets or things like walls that look fine enough with their default meshes" -> doesn't work if not replaced

[soft shoal]

you can keep the original assets and just assign the textures that are missing, it's trivial

we'd be replacing the textures and keeping many of the meshes

[woven vale]

so surely one of the first tasks should be to use niflib to just convert all assets to the omniverse format, no?

[soft shoal]

we can dump the assets in Remix itself. we then import those into the toolkit and work with them

[woven vale]

remix is not niflib/ly/whatever , it has no idea about the actual mesh information

[cold tartan]

you should probably go watch a video or read something about how remix works and what it's capable of

remix has the ability to capture entire scenes in usd format

[soft shoal]

also read through #remix-beginners-guide if you haven't

there's a lot of assumptions you're making about Remix that just aren't accurate

[cold tartan]

^

the new 2kliksphilip video on remix goes over everything pretty nicely with an example using hl2

not exactly the same as skyrim due to it not using shaders, but the general workflow for asset replacement would be the same

[woven vale]

but when we are talking about what, 1000s of meshes? it's problematic to replace them

so why not automate the initial conversion of assets

[cold tartan]

if you wanna spend time building something that can convert meshes to the exact format remix needs as a usd file, with all the hashes and everything included, when they already have a way of doing that that just works differntly than you currently are expecting, be my guest. But don't be mad at me when you've realized you wasted your time

[woven vale]

remix is a generic tool, it has no idea what a soft lighting map or shader parameters are

tons of material parameters, flags, textures which remix as a generic tool cannot understand, someone has to manually set that up

which means you have 1000s of meshes to manually import

[cold tartan]

I guess i just lack the context of skyrim in particular as to why any of that is important or not possible with remix. To me, it seems like a pretty simple solution to just have remix capture what it can and manually import anything it cant rather than try to build out a converter program

[woven vale]

yeah i'm trying to make the point that it's about skyrim specifically

at the most basic level all you need is to

• convert meshes to 100% usd format so that you can avoid using the non-fixed shaders
• disable things like the sky which don't work
• import a HDRI/sky with a fake light on the scene

[soft shoal]

there are ways to automate it using scripts. dump the textures from the game files, use a script to generate the matching hashes that remix relies on, then assign them to the meshes. i made a script for this many months ago and it works fine

it's not as big of a deal as you keep making out

[woven vale]

im saying it should be relatively simple

[soft shoal]

the sky works fine btw. it's probably that your save has weather that we didn't assign yet

[woven vale]

ah, nice

[soft shoal]

convert meshes to 100% usd format so that you can avoid using the non-fixed shaders
all of the meshes in the base game are there in the Remix version though, so i'm very confused as to why you keep proposing this

my rtx.conf file had trees and foliage hidden as it was bugging out quite a lot and wasn't worth having enabled currently

the only thing (that i noticed) missing was the water

[hot garnet]

yeah I'm getting confused reading this. Remix doesn't need everything to be converted just to render

[woven vale]

no normals, vertex normals or alpha, specularity, environment mapping, soft lighting, rim lighting, emittance, back lighting, etc.

[woven vale]

this is not fixed function

[soft shoal]

you just keep overlooking what Remix does. it's an entire replacement renderer. we don't need the various lighting effects, we can recreate the majority of those with well placed lights

and i already said that we'd be replacing textures, so missing normals don't matter

[woven vale]

on 1000s of assets?

[soft shoal]

yes

it'd be a long project, but there are many people that want to see Skyrim reworked like this

[hot garnet]

doesnt need them

remix handles it

[woven vale]

remix can't handle vertex normals/alpha/color

unless you export the original mesh, add it back in i guess?

[soft shoal]

alright. i misread that last line

vertex normals manipulate the mesh to give the impression of more detail, correct?

we'd be replacing most of the larger meshes, such as terrain. it should avoid this issue

[woven vale]

vertex normals is what you apply normal maps to

otherwise you can see the polygons

you are saying you will replace 1000s of meshes but don't know about normal mapping?

[soft shoal]

no, i had the misfortune of looking it up and misreading that as well

we can use meshes with millions of polygons without a performance hit. currently Remix has no support for vertex normals as far as i know, so that's the only option

[soft shoal]

also, can you please knock of the condescending attitude? it makes it very difficult to discuss this in a productive manner

[woven vale]

im just trying to understand who is doing it

[soft shoal]

there are many people involved in this project

it's been dead for a long time because we've needed SKSE patches, and had no one to perform them

until those patches, performing replacements is a complete waste of time

[hot garnet]

the first thing is making sure the game renders well enough to work with

you're skipping like 40 steps

[woven vale]

^

[soft shoal]

right now replacements don't totally work in Remix for Skyrim. however i have seen signs of this improving over time, and i think eventually it will work

our current priority is NOT to replace meshes or textures, it's to get the base game working well enough to justify this

[soft shoal]

those points are still missing the main issues with Skyrim

those come later

[hot garnet]

explain why we have to convert the meshes to usd?

[soft shoal]

what i'm asking for in SKSE patches is this:

• fix water
• fix trees if you want, not a priority
• rework culling
• reverse engineering the shader that handles particles would save a lot of time, but isn't fully necessary

that is all that's necessary to have a functional game

the rest is fine

[woven vale]

skyrim is not fixed function. remix is somehow rendering them but only the raw vertices + the diffuse uv. remix applies a fake light source but it's not actually applying to the real version of the mesh. it's not like remix on fixed function games where it generally understands what is going on already

[hot garnet]

am I misunderstanding the current state of the game? last I saw it looked workable

[soft shoal]

you are not

[soft shoal]

"Real version of the mesh". what do you mean? how are the meshes we're seeing in the game not "real". are they LODs?

[hot garnet]

genuinely what you're saying makes no sense. "Remix applies a fake light source"? what are you talking about lol

[soft shoal]

it really would help a lot if you watch a video on Remix. the idea of having SKSE patches is exciting, but if you don't understand how Remix works there's no point in this

@woven vale i understand you're knowledgeable about Skyrim, shaders, etc. the problem is that much of the knowledge you have just doesn't transfer to Remix in that way. it's not relevant to the current issues

all we need is for the most basic issues to be fixed, and we can do the rest

[hot garnet]

^which requires someone who knows their stuff to be clear. So we would appreciate the help but you gotta work with us when we're telling you what Remix will handle or doesn't need

[woven vale]

observe how the lighting looks low poly in skyrim, but not morrowind

on morrowind it can use smooth normals

you can't on skyrim i don't think

[cold tartan]

but that wouldnt matter with asset replacement right?

[hot garnet]

we can use normals with remix

it doesn't touch the base game's assets

[woven vale]

normal maps are not the same as vertex normals

[cold tartan]

Yeah vertex normal don't work on anything shader based. I finally understand what you're suggesting now (i think)

[hot garnet]

that would be above my paygrade ( @ashen cobalt )

but vertex normals are a part of the mesh aren't they? with mesh replacements that wouldn't be a problem

[cold tartan]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but you're suggesting replacing all the current remix-captured asssets with the originals, but properly exported with their vertex normals so everything is smoothed, that way everything looks correct. right?

[woven vale]

at this point i'm turned off. it shouldn't be that difficult me to explain basic rendering issues and be treated like i just don't know what im talking about

wish you all the best

[hot garnet]

we're explaining that basic rendering issues don't all affect Remix, only some of them

[woven vale]

ima go back to adding GI to SSE

[hot garnet]

with all due respect, we've dealt with modders of a given vanilla game who genuinely just can't wrap their heads around Remix. I had it on my own project where I was told my ideas wouldn't work, game would break, performance unplayable. And they were wrong, it worked perfectly

[woven vale]

ive definitely been proven wrong here. its a weird system but makes sense

[hot garnet]

and those were the best modders in that game's scene who made huge progress on their own native game remaster. Canned due to the instability of the engine

[hot garnet]

yeah it gets weird for sure, I've had to change my understanding of getting some things to work in ways that are totally different from raster or base game stuff. We've had modders make some games viable in Remix by altering the rendering/native shaders, and that's what we need help the most on with Skyrim to my knowledge (I personally haven't followed progress here)

Xoxor was able to get up to Call of Duty Black Ops 1 to be compatible which we never thought would happen. But his knowledge of the game and how Remix interacts with it made it happen

I do think Skyrim modders who work with the game's shaders could pull off what's needed to enable less technically minded fans (more artist oriented) to make a full pathtraced remaster of Skyrim

without the people with that expertise, we can only progress so far of course

I ask that you reconsider, we would really appreciate the assist. It's possible the amount of work needed to make significant progress with Remix is less than you think. But we respect whatever decision you make

[polar shore]

Remix does not generally render more than a diffuse map by default, nor is it meant to. If a game utilizes more than that, it all has to be added back via replacements. I have had experience using the script that Kim mentioned earlier and made and it did a fantastic job of automatically assigning normal, roughness and emissive textures to a game that used tens of thousands of textures. All I had to do was extract the textures from the game's archives, batch convert the normal maps to octahedral format via Chainner, inverted the specular maps, batch renamed all of the relevant textures appropriately so that the script would recognize them, and ran it. Some manual work was (and is still) needed for some objects that used different diffuse maps but shared normal and/or specular maps, etc. Plus there is the matter of setting objects that are meant to be translucent as such, which has to be done manually as well, but the vast majority of the work was done by the script.

[soft shoal]

i understood this but i thought that Remix didn't support it. cool

[hot garnet]

^he's the one with far better understanding than I @woven vale

well that msg timing is awkward lol

[soft shoal]

sorry, lol. messed up that message

[hot garnet]

was referring to boba^^

[polar shore]

Oh, at this point, you've done far more than I when it comes to hard work with Remix. I've seen what you've been working on and I am honestly quite impressed. I wish I had a fraction of your talent.

[cold tartan]

well, you're correct. Most things i've seen rendered with shaders lose their vertex normals and give you that polygonal look. For example, in incredibles when i accidentally had the shader mode on, mr incredible was very polygonal looking. Not sure what the limitation is there, but yeah meshes like that wont look right unless replaced

[soft shoal]

it happens in Barnyard as well

along with FNV and i think Oblivion too

[hot garnet]

it doesn't happen with Republic Commando, but that game is mostly fixed function

[soft shoal]

anything that uses shaders to render the terrain i believe

[hot garnet]

man I'm just throwing darts with my eyes closed and seeing what sticks

[cold tartan]

I didn't get a reply, but i think doodlum's suggestion had to do with just auto-replacing all the assets with extracted versions so that everything would render right, and using that as a baseline. Which doesn't really matter if you plan on replacing everything anyway, but yeah. If that's correct, i see why that was confusing for all of us, because normally we wouldn't do something like that for a game

[soft shoal]

and to be clear, i tried my best to hear you out and treat you nicely. i'll be honest, you were being a bit of an ass the whole time, so it got difficult to maintain that. i respect your knowledge still

i wish you the best as well, good work on Community Shaders & i'm excited to see the future of it

[soft shoal]

i understood the replacement part, but didn't see the point as it wouldn't have fixed anything. if vertex normals do indeed work, then that's great and makes sense

[cold tartan]

i think you're still missing something about this

its not that remix doesnt support vertex normals. it's that geometry generated by shaders doesn't give that information to remix (or at least remix doesnt use it), so the suggestion was to export the meshes from skyrim and then literally just replace all the shader assets with those exported ones. That would therefore no longer be utilizing the models extracted from the shaders by remix, and using the replacements instead (like any other type of replacement), so it would render right

its actually a really good suggestion that can apply to any of these games with that same issue

[soft shoal]

but what i'm still confused about is why it'd render differently if it weren't for vertex normals?

[cold tartan]

im not sure what you're asking

[soft shoal]

replacing the meshes with the originals ripped right from the game improves rendering. what's responsible for the improvement?

[cold tartan]

imagine if when remix extracted transparent textures from a game, the transparency was missing on all those textures. You could then just extract the textures externally and use remix's asset replacement to replace the textures with transparent ones. Since remix supports using transparency in the textures, it would just work

by default, its rendering something with missing information. if you asset replace with an extracted version that does have that information, then it corrects the issue

[soft shoal]

what i'm asking is: what is the missing information?

[cold tartan]

vertex normals

[soft shoal]

that's what i said from the beginning then, lol

i didn't know vertex normals were supported, as basically all of the games i've worked with had this issue. if i did know that, i'd have agreed with the replacement method

it does sound like a great solution that'd be fairly easy to automate

[cold tartan]

unfortunately it sounds like we lost doodlum's interest due to this misunderstanding 😦

[ashen sonnet]

Idk what I missed but it sounds like we have a solid team who can figure out some serious progression Skyrim rtx remix

@soft shoal @woven vale you both seem to know a lot of your own lanes. You should use that information to further a project for Skyrim

[cold tartan]

doodlum left the server so i dont think they'll be helping unfortunately

[soft shoal]

Discord shows them as still being here for me

and i'd be interested in continuing the project. we'd just need to cooperate better

[cold tartan]

i was looking at the mutual friends tab not the mutual servers one, ignore me pls

[soft shoal]

lmao that emote

[polar shore]

I noticed that they switched places not too long ago. Threw me for a loop as well. Still does from time to time.

[cold tartan]

ah that explains it then

[ashen sonnet]

Yeah isn’t doodlem also the guy who made the motion blur mod?

Or am I mistaken

You guys are arguing and trying to top each others knowledge when you both know a lot of useful shit lol

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-kong-king-kong-godzilla-vs-kong-kong-punch-gif-20091307

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eating-gif-26433511

@soft shoal @woven vale

[woven vale]

do not ping me or you will be blocked.

[hot garnet]

yeah it's definitely a bit much. People will check messages whenever they do

[soft shoal]

i wasn't trying to top anyone's knowledge, i was just trying to clear up a misunderstanding?

anyway, yeah. stop pinging

[dull ivy]

Ive been writing my own tool for Bethesda games to extract game files from .bsas and auto setting them up in the format expected by Remix, so any time they show up they automatically override.

Its working fairly well in Oblivion and Fallout 3, giving me the normals and allowing me to extract roughness and emmisive information just fine; but I havent implemented .ba2 support yet.

Even still, these are big projects and take time; we've just got a few comparatively small but highly technical roadblocks atm.

All games have issues with culling and a few specific troublesome shaders (as Kim said water & trees predominantly) and all need a little love with passing their lights to dx9 in a way Remix can sniff out.

If you're not keen on doing it, feel free to DM me or drop info in this thread if you have a solution for decomp, modification and recompiling of Skyrim LE's shader format. An MIT licenced codebase or even just a binary tool would be great. Im currently working on the older game's packaged shaders, but Skyrim uses a new format I'm not as comfy with so any help there would be appreciated 👍

[dull ivy]

If Doodlum means normal maps & the normals assigned to each vertex in a mesh, we do; and I think thats what they're trying to communicate?

[soft shoal]

yeah, toward the end of the conversation we figured that out. i really had no idea Remix supported that, which led to most of the confusion 😢

[dull ivy]

Oh

[soft shoal]

i do apologize for any unnecessary hostility (to doodlum). it was just a very frustrating conversation

[dull ivy]

Uhhh should I not @ or reply to Doodlum?
I see something about pings = block. If Doodlum isnt interested in working on this Ill leave them outta it

[soft shoal]

they don't have any further interest afaik

[hot garnet]

other guy did it excessively

a one time ping to reply is fine

if they have a problem with it they can mute the server

[soft shoal]

(maybe)

[dull ivy]

Coolio hoolio 👌

[soft shoal]

your name is great btw. coffee will save us all

[dull ivy]

Ahhh, yea Vertex normals did work, pretty sure vertex normal capture got broken by a regression at some point, not sure if it works again or not.

[soft shoal]

i'm pretty sure it never worked in a few other games i've seen this in

it'd be great to have it fixed in Remix itself

[dull ivy]

I think it worked briefly in Oblivion. Like.. very shortly after 2.0
If I find out what version Ill lodge another issue specifically about regressions again 😅
(hey crew, u dropped this :kappa:)

[covert pawn]

Tho this works in FNV , i think i tested it long time ago in Skyrim too , it worked.BUT...its not a complete solution cause in FNV it flips the all the reflections upsidedown

All dat arguing for nuthin' 😄

[covert pawn]

And this doesnt effect everything.NPC's skins still look bad (in both Skyrim , FNV).In skyrim its even worse, Some Geometry gets smoother , some stays the same, and some gets even more messed up/you can see dark triangles when capture normals from shader is enabled

[soft shoal]

turning on capture normals actually caused the artifacts on the left for me

so i turned it off in my conf file

very odd

that happens in Barnyard too

oh i see why. i never looked at anything close with it, only distant objects

look at the rock in the background. it has noticeable artifacts with it enabled

[ashen sonnet]

Sorry for pinging. I did ping one more time just because I really want to see a team develop for rtx remix for Skyrim.

[proper perch]

Reading the previous conversation hurts.
Getting the other texture maps such as the normals, emissions, roughness, metalness is already easy enough to do. I have a script for FNV that processes all of the .nif files and sets up a usda to relink all the textures with the diffuse, it should be possible to use with Skyrim as well.
"fixing" Skyrim's shaders with remix is not important, remix doesn't use the shaders at all. Modifying Skyrim's renderer to be more friendly to Remix's fixed function input is what was necessary. This would include ensuring the diffuse is always the first bound texture (probably good already from what it seems), that the diffuse gets unbound whenever the current draw call doesn't need textures (this is an issue in FNV at least), and that the engine information about where lights are in the scene get's pass along to remix via d3d9 SetLight calls.
No fake lights would need to be added to remix if it's just using engine lighting via a skse plugin, and lights could be altered, moved, removed, added, etc, in esp as you normally would. Remastering all the meshes and texture later won't be worth it if the basic critical info like where lights are is missing.

[soft shoal]

@covert pawn this is what happens when i turn on "Capture Normals from Shader" in Barnyard

it causes the ground to look distorted and broken. the same thing happens in NV if you look in the distance

however, the character model is improved

[hot garnet]

wrong chat

[covert pawn]

yeah.. like i said some things are improved(normals are captured ) other geometry is messed up.
Was just trying now in FNV...Her arm is worse with capture normals on.

[soft shoal]

it was related to the above argument about vertex normals 😛

[soft shoal]

i didn't see you acknowledge that, so i wasn't sure

[covert pawn]

Parts of the torso smoothed out(the lower part only! HAH! 😄 ) , but the arms... 🤷‍♂️

[soft shoal]

i'm not sure what causes the inconsistent appearance. it's very frustrating though

[hot garnet]

[covert pawn]

@soft shoal With emphasis on the 2nd comment.
Tho i may have exaggerated with "all that arguing for nuthin"

Even tho some of that arguing seemed for nothing really.Missleading conclusions about the roughness, normal maps and stuff like that, and then drawing conclusions that remix is broken or whatever when he was inside the companions lodge,cause he didnt know he had so select emissives to see what actually is going on...

[soft shoal]

yeah, that makes sense. thanks for elaborating

[soft shoal]

latest builds of Remix totally killed Skyrim

well, not totally

it's just REALLY messed up

what i was initially greeted with

after some tweaking

we need a mod to remove the atmosphere mesh, just like FNV

and @covert pawn, the vertex explosions are happening in Skyrim now too

(flashing warning)

@main oasis this is more of a curiosity than anything. instead of the water in Skyrim simply being invisible, it's now projecting the viewport onto it

this is the newly modified rtx.conf

[covert pawn]

yeah...must be the dxvk #409(and onward ofc)
vertex capture cleanup, think it was called

[chilly crypt]

try this

[chilly crypt]

it works with that and the ignored textures listed here

[chilly crypt]

waters not showing but its fine

with kims modified

[main oasis]

well that's... interesting...

I have no idea how you've managed to bind a render target as a texture for the water

[soft shoal]

i packaged it up into a mod file with this structure:
data\meshes\Sky\atmosphere.nif
it doesn't seem to work

i may have just done it wrong

[soft shoal]

yeah, i have no idea what happened. this is the first time i've loaded Skyrim in a month or so. suddenly with the latest Remix, water (that's normally rendered with shaders) that was missing before is now like i showed above

[main oasis]

🤷 shaders are wierd

[chilly crypt]

try the updated rtx config with some of your edits

[dull ivy]

I didnt know that Remix could load .nifs from file?
Ive just been adding the atmosphere mesh hashes to my rtx.conf ignore mesh list (but haven't tested Skyrim recently)

[soft shoal]

i didn't do it through Remix, i did it through Mod Organizer

[vast knoll]

I ended up porting skyrim special edition as a test (proof of concept only)

though perf is abysmal, as expected on this card

[soft shoal]

wow. how did you go about doing that?

[vast knoll]

a bunch of patched hdremix code, a bunch of patched game code, and awful device interop hacks (vk<->dxgi)

[ashen cobalt]

oh riiiiiiiight. Special edition is 64 bit! I didn't even connect the dots, that you can just use the API.

[soft shoal]

i'm not really familiar enough with hdremix to understand unfortunately

[vast knoll]

draw calls in the main gbuffer pass are forwarded to remix and results get copied back to the game

[hot garnet]

Wow, that's incredible

[chilly crypt]

what you do just rename the dll to dxgi?

im curious because i want to experiment

[soft shoal]

it's nowhere near that simple. i don't think you can do this on your end

[chilly crypt]

oh

[polar shore]

This is really impressive stuff. If this comes to fruition fully, it might actually help Remix garner more interest in the Skyrim community at large. Special Edition has more or less overtaken the original as it is anyhow.

[soft shoal]

the Skyrim community is pretty toxic imo, so honestly i'm not too excited for that

[jaunty swift]

Yeah, Bethesda games do seem to attract a certain toxicity. Be that as it may, I'm hopeful Remix will make some inroads someday. It's got great potential!

[mystic jacinth]

Skyrim mod devs try not to ride the highest horse in the world challenge (impossible)

[faint abyss]

The Fallout New Vegas community is also very toxic, to my surprise, obsidian games always attract bigotries, often homophobic, It is very difficult to maintain composure in the face of toxic behavior and not give up.

But one way or another the rtx remix instrument itself needs widespread attention, I hope it success is guaranteed.

[vast knoll]

spoiler alert: toxicity isn't unique to any community. modding communities are no different. gather enough people and they'll find reasons to hate each other

[soft shoal]

i haven't seen many quite as bad as these, hence my hesitation. i've been involved in modding many different games

but yeah, if we want this to go anywhere we'll need it anyway. it's offputting enough though that i may not participate in this project in the long run

[mortal lava]

If im going to work on a project imma do it for myself, not for others, and release it for those who might want it, hateful people are loud but can be ignored

[soft shoal]

the problem is that to get anywhere on this, you'd have to actively work with those people

i already had a taste of it here, and it's not something i want to do

the main reason i've worked on this project so far is because it's a technical feat. this game realistically shouldn't be working with Remix, at least not as well as it does. getting it to a good state would be amazing

but i don't much care for Skyrim itself and its modding community even less so from my experiences with it

there are kind people there, but honestly they seem far less common than the other type

[mortal lava]

I feel ya

[jaunty swift]

I think people get full of themselves and what they know and refuse to entertain anything else. It's impossible to work with people who can't see the use of something outside of their pre-existing knowledge.

[dull ivy]

I am also loving the expression of technical artistry that working with Remix allows.
I find it all very satisfying. 💚

I just hope that I haven't pissed in anyone's cornflakes here with what I have or haven't been doing, but please do let me know if you think that is the case.

[soft shoal]

afaik you haven't, and haven't even done anything close 😛

i hope it haven't either

[dull ivy]

You're a pleasure to work with 👌 (as far as I am concerned anyway)

[soft shoal]

that's good to hear 🙂

thank you

[dull ivy]

Heya Nukem! No pressure if it's a bit of an ask, but can you recommend any resources/tools/videos etc if I wanted to learn what I'd need to follow in your footsteps on this?

I've been trying to up my game when it comes to modding and programming, but a summary for what I'd need to learn to start trying something similar would be a massive help 💚 (but I understand that might be a massive rabbit hole so just let me know if it's a bit too much of an ask to summarise and I'll see what I can find on my own)

[marble harbor]

Reverse engineering and graphics programming in general

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d9/dx9-graphics

C++ as a base

[faint abyss]

You are right, as an independent modding platform, sandbox and game service Skyrim has already taken place independently.

But there are also other projects based on its engine, such as Enderal, they are so good and well-designed that it’s hard not to immerse yourself in them.

But in general there are projects that need an RTX remix more than Skyrim which today doesn’t look bad and gets much more than the games that came out at the end of the 2000s

[dull ivy]

Yep yep, coolio 💚
Fortunately I've been digging into these areas recently, but I suppose there is no substitute for time. At least I'm on the right-ish track 👍 and if not, at least I'm going to learn something 😂

[vast knoll]

for some reason people love to ask me incredibly broad questions like this and the short answer is: there is no real answer. there's no guide or book on earth that can tell you how to reverse engineer skyrim's model loader, texture loader, and d3d11 RHI so it can be replaced with hdremix. spend a large portion of your life playing with c++, x86 assembly, and renderers. eventually the knowledge is just ingrained.

first, get comfortable with c++. second, understand how gpu commands are submitted through their respective APIs. you don't need to learn advanced rendering techniques in this case. third, learn how to reverse engineer binaries.
basically what Che said.

if you reduce the scope to, say, "I want to augment remix using my game's active light coords/config", then you're able to skip 70% of the process because you simply pass existing data structures to remix's API. I believe this is akin to xorxor4d's work (?) and it may be worth asking for his opinion instead.

definitely a massive rabbit hole. hopefully I'm not too discouraging here

[dull ivy]

Sorry for the broad question, I figured you'd be sick to death of "tell me exactly how to do this and be my personal tutor" so I thought I'd just ask if you had some interesting references or recommended reading before just getting on with it 😂

I've been doing my best lately to get more comfortable with reverse engineering and have some C++ background, albeit rusty as hell.

Honestly it's just promising to see an example of an otherwise very incompatible game getting forcefully patched to at least talk to Remix. Super cool to see and thanks for posting it here!
It's given me a few threads to pull on anyway

[vast knoll]

in theory I can patch any game I want to use remix. it's a function of time more so than anything else

[soft shoal]

don't tell the people asking for GTA V 😛

[dull ivy]

As far as DX10 and post games, I would love more than anything else to work Remix into Fallout 4, which I think would be a phenomenal technical challenge I love that game but hot damn I hate it's lighting.

But uhhhh for now I'll stick with Oblivion, try and patch it's camera occlusion check. Keep it, yknow, somewhat doable at my current level of expertise 😂

[covert pawn]

Nukem:How much 💰 for Assasins creed 2?

😁

[faint abyss]

Surprisingly, it seemed to me that the lighting in Fallout 4 is much better than in Skyrim

[soft shoal]

i agree, but FO4's art style also causes some pretty glaring issues with it

specular highlights on materials just look abysmal in most places

[faint abyss]

Creation Engine has always been a problematic game engine

For me it’s already a miracle that RTX remix is ​​compatible with Skyrim, There is a glimmer of hope in my chest that one day I will be able to play Enderal with the rtx remix turned on

[woeful mason]

Amazing.
But how hdremix is used here? Isn't hdremix just to translate USD Renderer to Remix commands via Remix API?

[vast knoll]

er...I could be mixing up terminology since it was referred to as "hdremix" before "Remix API". there wasn't documentation at the time. I don't know which is correct

when the game creates a material I call remixapi_CreateMaterial
when the game renders an object I call remixapi_DrawInstance
so on and so forth...

[woeful mason]

Ah, gotcha! Thanks for clarifying!

It is one of the intended ways of using Remix API, trying to put it into the projects with available source code OR hack-hook to non-d3d9 64-bit apps

[vast knoll]

yeah, kind of like a back door. I noticed there's a lot of caveats involved

[woeful mason]

Sadly Remix API is not as vast at the moment in its functionality, but we'll see

[woeful mason]

Guessing, the pixel image data upload instead of image files, inability to render UI?

Or maybe something different, specific?

[vast knoll]

I'm trying to remember the changes I made...not at my home computer at the moment

[woeful mason]

Ok, no problem, ping me, if you'll find them, will try to promote them

[vast knoll]

I already worked around them in hacky ways

though I'm not sure what the "correct" way is

e.g. scene export doesn't work properly. remix separates d3d9 meshes/textures from remix api meshes/textures (beware: I'm using older commits)

[soft shoal]

https://youtu.be/1Hbz_Cu3kc8

posted a small update of Skyrim's current state

[hidden carbon]

@vast knollwould it be possible to do the same with Fallout 4 since the code is kind of the same?

as much as I love New Vegas the game just isn't very stable no matter what you do so fallout 4 would probably be the best game to add Ray tracing to if you are going to add it to a fallout game

[dull ivy]

To answer on Nukem's behalf: theoretically yes, or at least most likely. Probably not practical but technically possible.. discounting the possibility of some unusual showstopper issue.

It would almost certainly take a very long time and a very large amount of effort from one or more people with a strong enough background in both reverse engineering and the relevant directx apis.

Nukem's proof of concept is very very cool and while I assumed it was possible I sure didnt expect to see anyone actually do it.

But with the nitty gritty of reality out of the way it's very fun to imagine what it could look like

[soft shoal]

the idea of Fallout 4 actually looking great is exciting, lol. but i know it is pretty much never going to happen

plus... imagine the performance and amount of fixes you'd need to do

[hidden carbon]

😔

Thanks for answering

[vast knoll]

SSE was developed first and fallout 4 later branched off that codebase. both games share large chunks of code and general design but they're still "different" from my perspective.

a few notable changes off the top of my head:

1. bethesda switched to a deferred renderer
2. bethesda made extensive use of geometry batching/instancing (colloquially known as previs/precombines)
3. proper texture streaming via texture arrays

while these are annoying technical hurdles, they aren't showstoppers by themselves. I could force F4 to do my bidding with enough hooks similar to the skyrim PoC. however, once you start taking a peek at its advanced (relative to d3d9) post-processing techniques using information derived from the deferred gbuffer pass, the real walls appear.

e.g. how do you replace screen-space SSS? material blending? decals? water displacement maps? storm effects? tonemapping? how much can you tolerate without? when does it cease to be F4's renderer?

remix can't handle those fundamental problems. "would it be possible?" is better phrased "how much are you willing to forgo to use path tracing?" is it still technically possible? well, yes.

[cobalt basalt]

surprised to see nukem here

[vast knoll]

static uint64_t globalHashCounter = 1;

for (int i = 0; i < 5000; i++)
{
    materialInfo.pNext = &opaqueInfo;
    opaqueInfo.metallicTexture = L"C:\\my\\custom\\texture_metallic.dds";

    materialInfo.hash = globalHashCounter++;
    materialInfo.albedoTexture = L"C:\\my\\custom\\texture.dds";

    Remix::GetInstance()->CreateMaterial(materialInfo); // Call succeeds
}```

@woeful mason texture streaming breaks when creating materials as shown in the snippet above. remix overfills vram (11gb) and then it spills into system memory. I get about one frame per minute at that point.

do you know if this is by design? possibly a side effect of loading raw dds files? I was kind of expecting remix's api to handle texture deduplication like its d3d9 counterpart

[woeful mason]

Hmm.. the textures should've been "deduplicated". The shown behavior is not by design..

I guess something fails in the asset loader 🤔 (Not sure, but I speculate that since there are no actual D3D9 draw calls, nothing extends the lifetime of loaded assets), it's a Remix API bug, will file internally!

[vast knoll]

source\remix\remix_c.h(759,16): warning C4189: 's': local variable is initialized but not referenced
            BOOL s = SetDllDirectoryW(dirToRestore);```
silencing this warning would also be nice if you're in the area

[woeful mason]

Oof, yeah, will tweak, thx 🙂

[vast knoll]

I resorted to the cursed option of replacing all materials with alduin's bones

at least until I care enough to debug it

[covert pawn]

Alice in chains - them bones starts playing

[serene plaza]

wtf

[woven vale]

@woeful mason we should be able to look into remix api when it's out. mostly on a deferred renderer at this point.

we can supply

• all rendering transform, textures, material data, etc.
• all point light, directional lights
• vl/fog data
• sky/lod cubemap
• pbr roughness map
• weather time of day, astral body position
• all deferred buffers
• large water bodies as a height level, water mask/geometry

probably everything in its most raw form

assuming that this is effectively requiring us to just submit objects mapped to ids, and it digest them. sounds pretty straightforward.

[soft shoal]

ah, you decided to come back

[hot garnet]

Welcome back

[woven vale]

we should have an sse channel probably

though id rather nvidia just joined our private dev channel

[hot garnet]

Ah is there only one Skyrim channel? That's a good idea. Also sounds like you want to look into the API?

[woven vale]

sdk/api yes

[hot garnet]

So the thread would be something like "Skyrim: Special Edition (Remix API)"

[woven vale]

mayb SDK not api

because there's multiple apis which aren't integrated natively

[soft shoal]

just make a new thread in this channel. if it gets far enough, Nvidia may participate

[hot garnet]

I think it's kind of a catch all, naming is a bit confusing

[soft shoal]

are you referring to the same API as what was used here?

[ashen cobalt]

if this is for the OG skyrim then it should be renamed to Skyrim Legendary Edition

as that's the name of the non special (64 bit) version

[hot garnet]

Nvidia's absolutely interested in seeing what people do with the SDK/API. Guy you tagged especially. He'll come around

[soft shoal]

Skyrim Legendary Edition

[hot garnet]

Feel free to make a new thread to start fresh. I'd recommend adding (SDK/64-bit) to the end just so it's more obvious this would be a deeper integration

If you need a message pinned just tag me and I'm more than willing to throw it up there. I'd tag @.sultim again in the new thread just so he can see

[woven vale]

can i make a thread specific to our renderer codebase

so it would be Skyrim Community Shaders (SDK, DX11)

[hot garnet]

I'd add SE in there for good measure but otherwise absolutely

It would be its own project for sure

[ashen sonnet]

:gasp:

[ashen sonnet]

me when buhh

[ashen sonnet]

Here after a few months! Seems like there is a new update

Let’s goooo

One step closer baby

Anybody know when rtx remix is actually out

[ashen sonnet]

To the end i am about to break

I'll see myself out

[vast knoll]

texture tiling

texture tiling everywhere

[soft shoal]

yeah 😢

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/rtx-remix/issues/301
opened an issue a while back to add hex based tiling to reduce how obvious it is

sadly it hasn't happened yet

[vast knoll]

I suppose I can emulate noise instead

[ashen sonnet]

I gotta say though this is looking very promising now

[woven vale]

seems like a major limitation if the vertex data like that can't be used

technically the data could just be stored as a set of points in a data structure

since it's 32x32 per cell

[vast knoll]

remix has no concept of game-side programmable blending or pixel shaders. even with the data available, it's generally useless as-is. and that's been my only real fear since the beginning

but we'll see

[woven vale]

yeah my thoughts on this are effectively, if NVIDIA aren't going to support such a use case then I'm not going to try. Because they could literally break it any point, even if it did work.

It's not particularly a maintainable project

probably better to just do a GI/reflection pass instead of full RT

[vast knoll]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHUBB4LDC-M

although this is as far as I'll bother for a while. too many hurdles

[vast knoll]

bonus night scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ccT4GPzrTs

...and for some reason it's generating NaNs/INFs that manifest as sparkly dots on the ground. I haven't figured out why just yet

[chilly crypt]

can i ask how se works with remix and will you give some info on how you got it working

[marble harbor]

By manually hooking it up through the remix api

Meaning reverse engineering the game and making a fork of remix's dxvk/your own dll to talk to the renderer, idk the intended use, haven't looked at the api myself

[vast knoll]

the hand-wavy gist of it is "replicate what Remix does with d3d9 commands to reconstruct scenes, but using d3d11 instead". I've elaborated a bit more in the chat history.

initially I planned on embedding remix calls directly into game code. it didn't work out as nearly as well as I'd hoped. so now, I rely on wrapped d3d11 interfaces to capture rendering commands, and with supplemental information from game structures, feed them to remix's api.

it's not super difficult or anything. all of the games I tried ran into the same problem though: remix can't handle complex pixel shaders or blending. particles/SFX are out of the question.

[vast knoll]

@woeful mason you wouldn't happen to know why lights and skinned meshes lag several frames behind the rest of the world, would you ^? I'm not not sure whether it's a consequence of how remix works or something else. I don't know if I'm asking the right person for this either.

[woeful mason]

remix can't handle complex pixel shaders or blending
Yeah... even now, we're quite bound with the amount of code that exists for ray tracing shaders: more shader code => higher register pressure / more control flow indirection / shader compiler, scheduler can't predict complex branching => worse performance.
Vertex/Pixel shaders are app-defined with various logic / memory fetches.. Reverse-engineering of D3D/VK byte-code on the fly and re-injecting into RT byte-code, hard to think about amount of shader variations... At the moment, we don't have a successful implementation of general-purpose shader-processing processing 🥲

skinned meshes lag several frames
Skinned meshes use any valid available camera matrices, maybe those come from a previous frame -- as current frame didn't submit "good" camera matrices yet, or might be a Remix-internal multi-threading bug 🤔
lights lag
In the video, it's just the debug-representation that lags -- it uses last valid camera matrix, which might come from prev.frame...

[vast knoll]

yeah, JITing pixel shaders into rayhit shaders would surely be something for the ages. I can't imagine how badly GPU occupancy would suffer - my 2080 ti already sits around 30%. that'll stay a pipe dream for a while 🤣

I submit camera information before lights and before geometry via the API. I haven't been able to track down why it behaves this way so I was kinda hoping it was due to caching I wasn't aware of. seems like it's not the case. though I did refactor a chunk of remix's code for performance reasons, but it doesn't make sense why it'd break lights/skinning specifically.

the lights do lag behind when looking at shadows. it's hard to tell in the video since I cut it to under 50MB.
edit: thanks for the response

[soft shoal]

Skyrim LE again. lol

yeah so Skyrim has just seen massive regressions unfortunately

no matter what i do, i can't get valid visuals anymore

and apparently updating bridge.conf to the new version, even with everything commented out, will crash it

somehow managed to get it again

[covert pawn]

remix-mbc_hack(from blue amulet ? i think..) helped for me for the crashing, at least in the past.

[soft shoal]

i ended up doing a complete fresh install twice, and it fixed it. must've been some leftover file in there

the old conf however is broken. not sure why or what happened

[covert pawn]

So...every thing still the same 🙂 ? i mean improvements

[soft shoal]

preeetty much

it's even more unstable now though

[soft shoal]

alt tabbing for this pic crashed it

(it was borderless)

[young sky]

these are just the original textures poorly upscaled btw

[soft shoal]

not all of them

some of them are legit higher resolutions

but a lot of them are really bad 😦

same for FO4

[ashen sonnet]

any update

[soft shoal]

nothing

[dreamy shuttle]

Hey @soft shoal i would love to see some of the characters upscaled for skyrim! is that available?

[soft shoal]

🤔 i'm not sure what you mean