💣┇weapons-gadgets

[tardy light]

Wait, I never saw that trivia piece

Someone added that. Which means someone else had the same issue you’re having. I wonder if it was talked about in this discord at the time. Or maybe on a different forum.

[candid vessel]

Oh shit fr?

[tardy light]

Also, even if 7.12 is a store update. 7.13 is probably where the change would’ve happened

Because they say worse than how it was in 7.12. Meaning it was probably good in 7.12 and ruined afterwards

[icy egret]

I wouldn't know, I started playing on update 8.0

[candid vessel]

Like a hand crank minigun as opposed to one powered by an electric motor

[icy egret]

Ah, so a different sound?

[tardy light]

Oh, it’s not 7.13, it’s just 8.0 lmao

So they’re saying season 8 fucked up the deagles. And the 8.3 patch attempted to fix it. But it still didn’t fix it enough

[old flame]

unique animations and sounds

[icy egret]

I wouldn't know anything different besides what we have currently, the recent buff doesn't feel any different.

[tardy light]

If you’re really invested I know ekazo (a streamer) is very into deagles, you may be able to ask in his chat or discord server and get some insight

[icy egret]

I do watch some of his videos.

[candid vessel]

I mean im pretty confident that in 8.3 they made it worse not better because not only was that when it started to feel bad, but also its the exact opposite change to what happened in 8.3. Bullet dispersion builds quicker, not slower. Im thinking that maybe they intended to decrease the bullet dispersion build up so the deagles could have more range and hang with the BFR better, but they accidentally made it worse by changing the value in the wrong direction

[icy egret]

Sometimes. I put into effect the tips they do, but it doesn't change the fact that the weapon just... Sucks unless you're hitting headshots consistently. I already have bad ping for an FPS, it's a struggle.

[candid vessel]

Like this is after 11 bullets, a nerf to bullet dispersion buildup will be noticeable here, thus the big difference

So i think that they tried to make it better and nerfed it on accident without even realising in 8.3

[tardy light]

Nvm I just pinged him in ur bug report maybe he’ll see

[candid vessel]

Oh shit ok ok

[icy egret]

The latter one feels familiar. Didn't realize they were videos.

[candid vessel]

Theres videos and close-up screenshots from the videos

[icy egret]

The wider dispersion feels familiar, I wish I got to play with the pre-S8 one.

[tardy light]

Can you add this screenshot to your report?

[icy egret]

Currently it just feels utterly random unless you're shooting very slowly, then you'll lose DPS races.

[candid vessel]

Whats the source of this just so i can list it

[tardy light]

Wiki page, it is alleging that season 8 is when the dispersion was fucked, and that 8.3 improved it but didn’t fix it completely

That also tracks with why I wouldn’t have noticed the change since most of my beagle playtime is season 8 onwards. Just gotten used to it if true

[candid vessel]

Ive just seen it on there now yeah

[candid vessel]

I bet 90% of it is from before season 8, because i basically dropped them completely when they started feeling ass

I had them like level 5.5 at least by the end of season 4

[tardy light]

damn u abandoned them

[icy egret]

They really do feel really bad to play, but they're weapons I want to use.

[candid vessel]

Oh yeah 100%. I played a lot of cerb s5, minigun s6 (although i didn’t play like a huge amount in those seasons) and season 7 i was enjoying the cool pike skins/playing support as a light. Then i decided to pick up the deagles properly again somepoint after that, they felt ass, i subsequently abandoned them

I genuinely had no idea that there was no listed accuracy nerf in any patch notes

Because i have a friend who mained deagles from like s4-6 and he said they felt terrible too

[candid vessel]

When we noticed that they started feeling bad like around season 8 (i say around because i cant remember an exact moment i first noticed but it was definitely around then that they started feeling off)

And since then ive like actively avoided deagles because they felt like such a shadow of their former selves it was making me sad 😭

[icy egret]

LOL. It's going horribly.

...

[foggy snow]

This is a "make the enemy team quit within 2 minutes" team comp

[ember sail]

God tier comp if the enemy team has their monitors turned off

[icy egret]

Waiter, more kill-theft please!

[icy egret]

This made me giggle.

[eager wasp]

not possible

[icy egret]

10 Combat total. Interesting.

[ember sail]

Was the map Starlight Hollow? That map is open enough that if you ping an enemy it usually causes a feeding frenzy for that kill

[icy egret]

Uh no. I don't know the names of all the maps, but it wasn't.

It was the one where everyone goes A first always, and the first point tends to stall on B.

But not Starlight.

Looked it up, it was SYS$Horizon.

[ember sail]

Yeah nvm that's the opposite of Starlight Hollow (meaning that it's a good map)

[eager wasp]

syshorizon is peak

[icy egret]

It exemplifies the issues of Point Break even more than they already are.

[sudden pewter]

After playing alot with Dagger I understand where some of the common suggestions come from. I agree that the Dagger draw animations should be significantly quieter if not silent for enemy contestants, the inspects however are sick AF and if you cannot control your autism for 2s without a fidget spinner you should die (in game)

The one with clouds is animated!

[icy egret]

Yeah. I was just thinking of some meme that was popular a few years ago. "Daniel" and "The Cooler Daniel" or something.

[icy egret]

I met the first Sword player to do something for their teammate today. They bodyblocked my minigun to save a heavy in their blind rage to kill me.

[sudden pewter]

This is a skin based on the Gatling Gun, its mythic because of its unique animation where you crank it to fire bullets, very neat!

[icy egret]

I love this. But 1,200 coins. Ugh.

[sudden pewter]

It's definitely very pricey, I'm the dedicated Minigun Mann and tbh I wouldn't suggest you purchase this skin unless you REALLY REALLY like it. As an AlfaActa floozie I only ever use two skins for it, the Rustler isn't among them.

[icy egret]

I just have the Predator Alloy one. I don't really care of it but it was nice and cheap.

I could technically afford it but then I couldn't get the season pass until the end.

[sudden pewter]

I'd personally suggest you hold off then, another skin may release you like more!

[icy egret]

And I want the Lady Unyielding Set.

[sudden pewter]

The only insta-buys for me would be Eclipse Shade skins. Regardless of what they're for I purchase, I don't bother looking at what they're for or how much they cost.

I really like Lady Unyieldings sticker, not a huge fan of anything else in the bundle personally.

[icy egret]

I don't care for stickers or much, but I love the armour. I use the Lotus Reaper top and the Egyptian Headpiece from S8 at the moment, but I really want other outfits now.

[sudden pewter]

I'm a huge proponent of unique stickers, be they sponsor flavor or thematic to the weapon. The gilded "Rightfully Mine" with an embossed texture so it looks like actual script instead of some cheap sticker is divine

It's the ONLY sticker I use that isn't from and exclusively on my Minigun. 200MB well spent

Rightfully Mine

I'd use it on the Shak but it isn't properly centered and it ruins the sticker for me.

Wrong discord Goo.

You and your stick fiddling

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, my bad.

I was talking to Googs about it and working in obsidian at the same time so I wasn't paying attention until I saw the minigun.

[sudden pewter]

It's okay, I forgive you. But next time you'll be punished.

[icy egret]

I don't care so much for the Sponsor equipment. I want more girly stuff though, not girly-girly but stuff like Lady Unyielding. I want to be a kick-ass woman.

[sudden pewter]

Can't relate.

Actually my main medium is a cat-maid so I suppose I can.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, I'm a Dissun employee for life.

[sudden pewter]

Still waiting for a Black Cat tail that isn't ruined by an obnoxious red bow. Embark you had ONE JOB.

The set that introduced Cat Ears doesn't even have any red! Why did you think to add it as an accent color?!? You had the basic cat tail already made! All you had to do was paint it black!

[slow linden]

Special animations that you can't change

[sudden pewter]

Just this but black raaaaagh!!!

[icy egret]

Yes, it was discussed.

[icy egret]

I was going to get the main outfit, but it's an outfit, not a uniform like I like.

I want a long skirt. I pretty much only wear long skirts and dresses IRL.

[sudden pewter]

The appeal(to me) is that you can wear it piecemeal or the entire ensamble. You can just wear the top/skirt, or wear the headband stand-alone.

I don't have much more to ask regarding female cosmetics, I have an AlfaActa Dede and my Cat-Maid, that's really it. As a whole I have many requests regarding cosmetics but I wouldn't mind seeing long skirts!

The lone-wanderer has those really insane pants that could probably be fitted into a skirt relatively easily

[icy egret]

Combat skirts/dresses and heels are my favourite aesthetics for games. If I have the option, then sure. That's me.

[sudden pewter]

I'd like to see more combat-anything to be honest. The Orderkeeper set is fantastic (even if the helmet is rather bulbous) and I'd like to see more tacticool stuff but with The Finals flair!

[icy egret]

My main gripe with Lady Unyielding is the lack of a skirt and the blocking of using headpieces.

[sudden pewter]

Doesn't she have the chainmail skirt?

*Skirting

[icy egret]

Maybe a small one.

[sudden pewter]

More like barding(?) I suppose.

The chainmail hood not being optional also does leave much to be desired. Wish it was removable as well.

[icy egret]

Okay, I looked again. I don't mind it so much.

[icy egret]

Yes, it leaves a lot.

[sudden pewter]

It makes my Dede look like an angry lesbian.

If the hood wasn't mandatory at least long hair could be more prominent

I love the spiked shoulder pauldrons, everything aside from the hood is magnificent!

Aside from the gloves, which are very basic.

[icy egret]

I don't particularly mind the gloves being basic.

The set has already got a lot going on. Less is more.

[sudden pewter]

A pair of matching gaultlets would have gone so hard, especially asymetrical ones!

[unkempt moss]

This guy cooking or nah?

[icy egret]

Infinitely vague.

[unkempt moss]

Hm.

[sudden pewter]

Definitely not. After playing all melee weapons myself and getting a grasp of what it takes for them to perform well I cannot agree. Chances are that as per usual it's a random that got his cheeks clapped by a melee player and rather than reevaluating his own plays he blames the weapon.

I didn't die because I pushed the sword in an enclosed space, it's because the sword is OP! No skill weapon! No I will not use it!

[ember sail]

The game has too many people spamming bullets. Where are the gun control laws

[sudden pewter]

Poetry.

Joined specifically to say melee is borke and need fix right meow

[unborn lava]

It is the medieval season, there shouldn't be so many bullets!

[icy egret]

Right. Give heavy a sling.

[unkempt moss]

Got his ass

[sudden pewter]

It's the case 90% of the time we get such sloppy 'feedback'. I got killed by something I feel is unfair! I'm gunna join the discord and whine about it!

[unborn lava]

Ngl with how far Heavy can throw canisters I can imagine a BFR Titan skin that is an ancient sling that he doesn't even need to spin up.

[icy egret]

I'd like that. Just being given a rock to huck.

I sometimes do wish we also had the Jump Pad or Flying Fox on heavy, though I understand why not. I hope for a heavy weapon and gadget as we have the least amount of them both.

[sudden pewter]

Jump Pad Heavy Bad. First in, last out. Heavy cannot have mobility on demand without the presence of a Medium.

[unkempt moss]

Gateway allows that since its not just positive forward movement on demand. Requires set up.

Set for team, be first in, gateway them safely.

Or set up the most vicious Slam above the cashout.

Gateway + MGL is fun.

Im a Gateway on Heavy believer until I die.

[icy egret]

Flying Fox on heavy would be cool.

I believe Americans call them "ziplines" usually.

[near scroll]

does anyone have faith in the melee rework

[candid vessel]

Cooking themselves yh

[candid vessel]

Hell no

[near scroll]

yea makes sense

embarf™

[cerulean furnace]

After seasons of seeing them balance stuff and that stream they did, absolutely not

[candid vessel]

embARC™️

[near scroll]

you say that but from what i gather on social medias even ARC's playerbase isnt happy xd

[cerulean furnace]

Like I want them to do it well, but I cannot trust Embark as of rn.

[near scroll]

still a bigger game that generates more income for embark but yea

good to know no one trusts embark anymore

[candid vessel]

Yeah but thats where the money is because somehow arc blew up and the finals didn’t despite arc being ass

[candid vessel]

How i feel about everything atp

[cerulean furnace]

Imma be real Arc Raiders is doin well, and while they did some stuff that could've been better or needs work, they have consistently still put out updates that I think are good and a lot of QoL improvements people habe been asking for.
I think most people are just angry because they're not doing everything they want, such as a PvE mode which would destroy the core of the game

[near scroll]

arc isn't ass, but it is disappointing to see how they handle the game (just like how it is with the finals lol)

[candid vessel]

Its like bungie jumping with an arrow through my head

[near scroll]

from what i hear cheaters are still a huge issue and from my experience the content updates were quite lacking

[candid vessel]

I was looking forward to it for so long before it came out because i like extraction shooters and ik what embark are capable of. Arc was a massive disappointment and is one of the deadest games ive ever played

[near scroll]

what was disappointing about it for you?

also i'll just write here : i find ARC's gun designs and balancing very strange and ass

[candid vessel]

How tf are there cheaters in a paid game man 😭

[cerulean furnace]

Is it cuz of the new Map? Personally I haven't seen anything that outrageous.
The content updates being slow idc about considering it IS a full game and they can afford to take some time with it, in my opinion people need to be more patient. They even stated they are gonna drop it more rarely, but more impactful, which I appreciate

[near scroll]

like why did all blue rarity guns shoot medium ammo, shit like that

just dumb, boring and disappointing

[candid vessel]

Gunplay, enemy density, graphics, ui, sound design, loot density

[near scroll]

idk i haven't played since the winter event thingy

[candid vessel]

On both a balancing and technical level it looks and feels awful

And it has the worst ui ive ever interacted with in a game

[near scroll]

can you elaborate on gunplay, enemy and loot density?

[cerulean furnace]

No offense but that does sound lowk like a non-issue man. Now that u mention it, it IS weird, but I feel like this isn't something that's really an issue (new blue rarity weapons that behave differently would be nice I admit)

[near scroll]

it's not actively an issue but it just shows the game is lacking compared to what it could've been

[cerulean furnace]

Personally I do like the guns, they look mostly trashy and that's how I expected them to be considering the world

[near scroll]

sure but why not do more diverse guns

like the arsenal while it looked cool lacked variety and that showed in the loadouts ppl ran

[candid vessel]

Aiming and shooting feels really clunky and worse than most games from 10 years ago, and in the few hours i played 95% of my time was wondering around finding LITERALLY nothing. No enemies or worthless garbage to fill my pockets with for a few quid. And whenever i did find an enemy i snuck up on them, got the jump, they eat a mag like im shooting bubbles and then they just 1 tapped me. Like the really small enemies not the rocketeers.

[near scroll]

also why have the "tech mod" slot but only use it for anvil splitter

[cerulean furnace]

U do be valid, I do see that them being careful with weapons is something that's expected. U don't want to introduce a weapon that's overturned immediately

[near scroll]

just add shit like alof's mechanism for ferro idk, just do cool stuff instead of sitting on that cash and fingering urself

[cerulean furnace]

THAT I understand, that's really really weird

[near scroll]

i think the aiming feeling clunky might be linked to ADS time being a very important stat for ARC's guns, also wdym the small bots ate a full mag and 1 tapped u

no offense but how many hours did you end up playing?

[candid vessel]

Theres a difference between something feeling slow and weighty and something feeling clunky and rubbish (like helldivers; weapons are very heavy and awkward to use but it feels well done, rather than the controls being wooden). Everything in the finals feels so silky smooth and i was hoping some of that magic would translate into arc raiders, but it really did not, even in the slightest. I played maybe just under 5 hours because i couldn’t sense even the slightest bit of potential up until that point (if i can survive the destiny 2 new player experience post sunsetting but get completely turned off in every way by arc raiders i think that says something about it, because i dont think ive ever straight up abandoned a game i payed for in the same way as i did arc)

[near scroll]

im not sure what you mean, guns felt fine to me, they felt slow when unupgraded which is to be expected but most guns when upgraded felt good to me, and the roll led to some fun fights

[pastel wyvern]

maybe they're buying accounts from countries where regional pricing makes em cheaper

[near scroll]

embarf™

[hoary wyvern]

fix sword camera bugs pls

[unkempt moss]

Is this community stream worth watching?

Never mind. I thought it was an informational stream.

[last steeple]

What bug

[hoary wyvern]

the lock after lunge is often have a longer duration then it should be. u already use m1 and still can't turn ur camera

overall lock is the horrible decision. but bugs make it 100 times worse.

[sudden pewter]

Lock is wonderful

Needs iterating upon though for sure

[hoary wyvern]

and they cant fix no reg after long tme in the air. this bug have 2centuries anniversary yerstaday

[hoary wyvern]

aggry but we need to add it to all guns for fair duels

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[hoary wyvern]

and movment lock too it s unfair that u can move and shoot on the same time

[unkempt moss]

This guy is cooking.

[alpine sphinx]

winch is actually such fucking bullshit. it has no business being a counter to close range weapons or specs

[hoary wyvern]

Oscar say that they wants fair duels for every people. Melee users is just not people

[muted condor]

Arc raiders also has the second worst fan base ever

[stoic garden]

is it

[alpine sphinx]

genuinely if s11 doesnt deliver i will stop playing this game. The blatant favouritism of the devs is genuinely so fucking annoying

[hoary wyvern]

looks like melee rework should happen in the medieval season but something went wrong

[marble crater]

What's best light build

[hoary wyvern]

sword vanish infuser tp

[marble crater]

K

[compact tundra]

What spec?

[hoary wyvern]

dash but graple actualy work too but much harder to execute

[compact tundra]

Based, you pass

[arctic zodiac]

Gave the Famass 3 weeks and its kinda ass! 😄

[glossy sun]

They did this to themselves... They wanted a Way to pull people close Range... So they Watched RoadHog and Didn't Think twice about the potential it has.

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been using it myself to justify purchasing the animation pack, definitely had a fall from grace.

[alpine sphinx]

pulling people close range is fine, stunning them and cancelling close range actions such as charge and slam, or melee attacks is not, this punishes close range playstyles for going close range

[glossy sun]

You know Road Hog actually stuns people while he Hooks them... Right?

[sudden pewter]

@compact tundra this is 4 u

[alpine sphinx]

yes, but just because hog does it doesnt mean winch should, overwatch is a completely different game with different objectives and gameplay

actually fucking ridiculous how you can be hooked out of a charge and it just gets completely canceled

why even play anything aside from winch at this point, they might as well remove the other specs

[sudden pewter]

Rare objectively correct statement???!?

[glossy sun]

Yet they took the same ability and made it to the game

I mean There has to be a way to Stop people from using Charge... That's why Winch Exists...

[last steeple]

iamagine we get a new melee weapon in the melee rework

[glossy sun]

Hell naw... Unless they replace one Weapon.

[last steeple]

why tho ?

any new playstyle is always nice

[glossy sun]

What and place another weak melee like Spear?

[sudden pewter]

I’d hope all hands are on deck for making the rework(s) right now rather than adding more to the problem pile.

Once the rework hits live and has time to be iterated upon I’d love to see more melee weapons though!

[last steeple]

I mean if the melee rework is a success melee shouldnt be weak anymore

[glossy sun]

Give it a Spear Toss

Spin move Makes you too open... If it had like Damage Reduction like Dual sword

[last steeple]

I dont think it would be another problem if they think of it after reeworking melee, or while reworking melle, but I get you I hope they are mainly focused on the rework too

[last steeple]

I dont like the toss idea, I like ts more tho

[glossy sun]

What?

[last steeple]

damage reduction, or a m2 rework based on melee

[glossy sun]

Wait... What if they add the upper cut with the Sledge?

[arctic zodiac]

Its almost sad. Used to be such a rad gun!

[glossy sun]

Which was that move exclusive to the Heaven or Else ...

[sudden pewter]

Not sure I agree with the statement of melee being weak after playing them (sans Spear). Frustrating for newer players absolutely, not viable at the highest levels of play too.

[glossy sun]

I still think spear should have a Toss.... Which should reward you with damage other than Running in and one shotting people with Sledge...

[sudden pewter]

Outside touching numbers/animations I hope that the melee rework focuses on integrating tech into the weapons intended designs. Adjusting damage so that QM Combo’s aren’t necessary, making superlunge a staple feature, spin cancel (assuming they choose to keep the spin), etc.

I hope Riot Shield gets its ability to block object interactions again (at least for enemy contestants).

[glossy sun]

It doesn't block Objects?

[last steeple]

not only in the highest levels for some weapons, like db or spear, and maybe even rs and dagger

[compact tundra]

That's a fucking glorious dagger clip

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been using all melee weapons in gamemodes like PB/TDM (PB lets you use whatever due to the chaos inherent of the gamemode and TDM gets you much more engagement exposure)

While neither gamemode is comparable 1:1 to Cashout I’m largely at odds with the general assumption many melee weapons are in an inherently weak state. The more likely reality is many melee players aren’t playing well and their limited range due to weapon choice is a convenient shield to guard ego.

Not that any levied concerns or frustrations aren’t valid. Melee needs significantly more work to confirm kills reliably than standard firearms!

[sudden pewter]

I have so many, I’m basically instalocking dagger in any PB game where we have -3 lights

[compact tundra]

I actually sorta agree. I think melee as a whole is in like a C tier. It's not bad but it needs a boost to be able to be considered viable to me. Like you could take a spear or sledge or sword to the majors but I don't think it'd work out well. I think the issue for me is the effort gap. Sword has to put in way more work for way weaker returns than like a ARN or M11 which takes less effort and gets way better results. Part of this is just inherent to melee but I think the gap is too big right now

[sudden pewter]

I understand that due to the skill disparity between players melee cannot be too good due to melee requiring less mechanical skill than a firearm so it slays in low elo lobbies, but this is reality and I don’t believe Embark will be able to break the emotional fairness barrier that has plagued gaming since Pong. Rather, I’d wish they focus on technical fairness as players with a surface level enjoyment and lack of understanding will always bitch and moan. They need to clarify melee gameplay, not simplify it.

This isn’t about elitism, or not supporting greenhorns. This isn’t about accessibility or “catering to casuals because they’re the backbone of any game”. It’s a comprehension check.

“Make X change because muh accessibility” is a super stupid argument because it’s implying the average player is incapable of learning, it’s assuming stupidity for the sake of removing mechanical depth.

Melee weapons and ranged weapons are inherently different, gun v gun engagements should play differently than melee v gun engagements or melee v melee engagements.

I’d like to see more attack options for melee weapons, a standard primary and charged primary would be nice. Meaningfully sets them apart from ranged weapons (the only exceptions being bow and throwing knives)

Skibidi Toilet

[compact tundra]

I actually agree a good bit. And my message wasn't about how melee should be as easy as guns, tho I also don't think you interpreted it like that. I just think the returns should be a bit higher for the effort right now. I think if melee was just a bit more effective or had a bit more utility* then it'd be fine. Just a little something more for the effort. I'm perfectly fine with basic wash weapons that are effective. I think weapons like M11, P90, AKM, M60, ECT... Have a place in this game and are important I just think melee should be able to compete a bit better with the effort put in.

• By utility I don't just mean like destruction and stuff, could also be movement or just something fun, something to add more value to playing melee.

[sudden pewter]

The ‘issue’ as I understand from Embark given how little the speak to it is this: How can we keep melee viable in its effective range while making it feel fair for both parties and not an I win button?

This is a valid stance, if melee is so oppressive in its own range that it forces gun players to get out of dodge they become the ultimate dive tools, you can’t hold an obj because you’re limiting yourself to a space a melee player can infiltrate.

So it has to be fair, in that a gun player can still reliably fight back and potentially turn the fight around even if disadvantaged.

But now it’s a catch 22 because melee is only effective within its intended distance, there’s no plink potential whatsoever. Should the gun player even be allowed to fight back? Emotional fairness says no, because you closed the gap, they fucked up. Technical fairness says yes, because the gun user may have some utilities up their sleeves.

Embark will never be able to satisfy both parties, I’d honestly prefer they stop trying.

[marble crater]

What's best gadgets for light

[sudden pewter]

A stopgap Id like to see is for more effort to be put into the kill-cam. Especially in TDM where combat is the main focus of the mode. It’s a more casual gamemode and I see many low lvl players there, many of which whine about melee when they die to it.

[marble crater]

?

[sudden pewter]

Currently the meta picks are:

• H+
• Gateway
• Vanish Bomb/Goo Grenade
  Really you can use whatever you like. Variety is the spice of life and choosing what pros use without understanding why will lead to frustration.

[marble crater]

K

[sudden pewter]

Not even 5m wait before you do this smh I see why you play Light. 🤦‍♂️

[marble crater]

Wow

[austere elk]

buff goo gun make it shoot faster and make when gooed the breakout takes longer

[eager wasp]

ehh no

[stoic garden]

buff goo gun

[eager wasp]

forgot about glitch grenade

[sudden pewter]

Glitch has been seen less since more Heavies are dropping dome in favor of goo since its nerf, but you’re absolutely right it’s still definitely an S tier pick

[stoic garden]

why use glitch when double light is meta and they can mostly dodge

[eager wasp]

wah, are they? i saw them try that for like, a little but went immediately back to dome

[sudden pewter]

My knowledge about pro-play is second hand as I don’t watch any of it myself, nor do I put much value in it. You may very well be right as I’m likely behind by a month or so.

[stoic garden]

pre nerf bfr did kinda push goo nade usage up a bit but idk now

lowkey just run medium with data reshaper 😄

[sudden pewter]

Real, Data Reshaper is S tier now purely for its ability to completely remove a Dome from play. (Aside from being very good prior too)

[foggy cloak]

Yes

[warm python]

perfect emot

[sudden pewter]

Choose your next move carefully.

[foggy cloak]

Why

[sudden pewter]

Spam is fake and gay. This is hallowed ground.

If you want to level up, go to #⚡┇the-finals-chat or #💥┇spawn-point

[foggy cloak]

Im new to the server and everyone has these sponsor things behind thier names like ospuze

I wanted to look if I have it to

[sudden pewter]

You choose them freely, read #👋┇welcome and assign your roles at the top of the channel listings.

[foggy cloak]

Thanks

Sorry for the spam

[sudden pewter]

You are forgiven, this time.

Next time, you get the basement.

[distant cargo]

Solo queueing on this game might be the worst out of any game ive ever played

They need to remove abandonment penalties, or something. I shouldn't be expected to waste my time with people who have literally just started playing the game, whilst I'm going against rubies.

I shouldn't be punished for leaving the game when its this unplayable

[eager wasp]

idk soloq is the same feeling on any game

[sudden pewter]

Another awful take. You are choosing to SoloQ knowing full well the average player has the mechanical skill of a pineapple. You decide the game is lost rather than putting forth any effort regardless of circumstance and are now seeking justification through the removal of abandonment penalties, which you will find very difficult.

Feel free to use the various LFG channels in this discord or other community discords, if you vibe with a teammate in any game try adding them and seeing if they want to queue together. Wishing you luck.

[last steeple]

Fr

[alpine apex]

Get 'em my lord

[last steeple]

And you cannot really say "remove penalties caus I don't wanna waste time with bad mates" whereas a lot of people leave you alone, well they should learn to try till the end, even if you are bad or if your mates are terrible you can win 🤓

Maybe you are one of those bad mates who quit instead of trying

I've seen many people blaming our team and quitting whereas they are the problem

[stoic garden]

blow up everyone and leave

[last steeple]

Leave everyone and blow up

[unkempt moss]

Sounds like you might be the problem, bud.

[sudden pewter]

I get being frustrated by shit teams, truly. I’m sure we’ve all been there, but to throw in the towel and leave makes you a part of the problem!

[alpine apex]

QFT!

[sudden pewter]

Not sure what that means, I’m old and crunchy and I can’t pee hard.

[distant cargo]

Its specifically worse here due to matchmaking. And also the finals you rely on your team more than most other games

It's even worse on the finals because people outright refuse to use voicechat for some reason

The problem could be "solved" by finding people here but that isnt much of a solution

[eager wasp]

don't use vc bc people are really toxic

[alpine apex]

It should be from your/our era lol

quoted for truth

[sudden pewter]

Embark has also fostered an environment where many don’t want to talk due to potential consequences. AI voice moderation, zealous chat filtering, and a no tolerance for toxicity policy (what is and isn’t toxic isn’t set in stone)

[alpine apex]

that's old school internet verbage right there. back in the ole online forum days

[sudden pewter]

QFT…. Not familiar

[deep karma]

Quoted for truth - it's a forum thing yeah.

[alpine apex]

someone was around for the early years!

it's like asking a group "who loves orange soda?"

real ones know the answer

[deep karma]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid4-mgs4-solid-snake-old-snake-becoming-old-gif-24179307

[indigo nexus]

I would use voice chat for sure if I wasn’t always in VCs with my friends. I would find it quite fun to talk to toxic people I think

[sudden pewter]

Banter is healthy, while I understand the want for sanitation of online spaces for the sake of advertising, multiplayer games are largely rooted in social experiences and to be bereft of that is a major issue I take with gaming in the current era.

This is a peak dynamic social encounter.

See guy with Ospuze drip
I’ll bet he drinks Ospuze. Lemme go see if he will drink with me.

[unkempt moss]

It usually just defaults to racism so its not that exciting.

The new generation isnt as creative as back in the day. They just call you a slur over and over.

[sudden pewter]

If you talk, more often than not someone else will start talking. Healthy banter is contagious, it’s up to gamers to keep traditions alive where companies and corporations actively seek to destroy our culture. As gamers it’s our duty to shatter the glass ceiling and scream slurs at our friends.

[unkempt moss]

Mostly because youre stuck talking to your team. The real fun was when you could talk to the enemy team during rounds and stuff.

[sudden pewter]

Real, proximity chat would go nuts although in a game as fast as this it probably wouldn’t land. A server-wide text chat could work great

[unkempt moss]

Or between rounds was the best. The explosion of hate after a big play was amazing.

[polar cedar]

clearly you never played sot

[unkempt moss]

Considering I dont recognize the acronym youre probably right

[sudden pewter]

SoT mentioned
Don’t even get me fucking stared

[compact tundra]

I mean doesn't sea of thieves have an older-ish audience anyways?

[sudden pewter]

I got banned for sinking a streamer in the dedicated PvP mode, first 700 skeleton curse and I was killed for it

[indigo nexus]

Exciting or not, they’re likely to be far more bothered by me than I them

[unkempt moss]

Sure.

[swift agate]

damn sounds like another game I know

[unkempt moss]

Id come back to the finals today if they added prox.

[sudden pewter]

I get why modern developers are afraid of adding proximity chat, gaming has artificially become soft through strong arming and the rise of friend to friend platforms like Discord.

Organically meeting friends through play seems much harder now given how many tools to talk have been taken away from us.

[eager wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-staring-cat-cat-mr-fresh-fresh-gif-4714710619997780774

[sudden pewter]

No shitting I got Skeleton Curse twice. I fucking loved SoT

[compact tundra]

What if you made a gamemode for a shooter where your ability is a type of common cheating. Like the whole point of the gamemode is cheating is allowed and the cheats are built into the gamemode. So like you could play wall hacks, no recoil, infinite ammo, auto aim, ECT... And that's your ability. Not an idea for the finals just like a gamemode idea in general. If it was for the finals could be CNS sponsored

[sudden pewter]

I was top 10 Reaper in the leaderboards for a season iirc.

[alpine apex]

Toxicity definitely isn't as verbally harsh as the ole lobby chat days, but it's more frequent because I think people are genuinely being brought up in a "if they aren't just like me then i hate them" society. That's why when I jump into a lobby chat the first thing I do is positively comment on someone's gamertag or character drip. sometimes it leads to a positive interaction, sometimes I'm told to F off simply for being cordial. But all in all I've had more positive experiences than negative ones because I think people actually feel a sense of relief NOT dealing with toxicity for once

[sudden pewter]

I don’t want to blame woke because it doesn’t give credence to a large number of societal issues with a blanket term, the sanitation of online spaces, the forced child-friendly plaques on once adult spaces, advertising friendly requirements, etc.

The Finals is rated T by the ESRB, and I see why the chat function has a censorship option and moderation for voice, but we used to be able to disable those if we chose to do so, and Embark has removed those options.

Don’t wanna have your voice recorded and moderated by our dogshit AI algorithm provided by Nexon? You don’t get to talk then.

You wanna disable the chat filter? Too bad, we know what’s best for you.

It’s taking agency away from me, a grown adult. I hate it.

Let me moderate my own experience, if someone annoys me I can mute/block. If I come across someone breaking ToS I can report them should I feel the need to do so.

Embark, Nexon, or anyone else shouldn’t get to decide my sensibilities.

[alpine apex]

Oh I'm not saying there aren't those issues in the industry. I was mainly talking voice chat in general. The mute button has always been there, as has peer to peer engagement. But yes everyone is so soft (easily offended) that even someone being kind is viewed as some sort of sarcastic troll. And it's like, "nah man, your gamertag is hilarious and that helmet goes great with the boots. Let's have fun blowing crap up"

[sudden pewter]

Unironically the Jew loadouts I’ve seen are hilarious and it’s a travesty many get offending on their behalf and report them for it.

Nobody can take it on the chin anymore and I largely blame all of these glass jaws on corporations sanitizing the Wild West of the web.

[alpine apex]

The new generation would not have survived an old COD or Halo lobby, that's for sure haha. 30 seconds in and we'd have a minimum of 50 lawsuits filed haha

[sudden pewter]

Not that children need to be exposed to Al-Qaida beheading videos, gore, and the vile depravity of humanity as I was, but the least we can do is treat them as people and not metrics to sell shit to.

[stoic garden]

brother you do not know the censorship blue archive (a gacha game owned by nexon) has

[sudden pewter]

Gacha Slop so ofc I don’t. I have taste.

You have your 850 year old Lolita hag armpits, I have my anthropomorphic robot polish catgirl that sells chips. We are not the same.

Post made by #KerfusGang

[stoic garden]

i played that shit like 4 years ago and i remember the censor being so fucking broad that it literally censored words like "greetings"

[alpine apex]

But a good creative ribbing that got the lobby laughing was always fun. Bad apples that resorted to the same tired slurs and such sure. But like you said, mute buttons were quick when they only had one repeatable retort

[sudden pewter]

Monkey is censored in The Finals even though it’s one of the random name gen terms

[stoic garden]

half my messages in group chats inside of that game were almost completely censored

[sudden pewter]

1984

[stoic garden]

i was never rude or anything either lmao

[unkempt moss]

I just started my first gacha. What's wrong with blue archive

[sudden pewter]

You’re on the downward spiral but you still have time to pull up.

[stoic garden]

censorship is lame but not a dealbreaker, i personally quit it because the gameplay was as boring as using only sword m1

[unkempt moss]

Its Monster Hunter. Gotta see it through. They'll get zero dollars from me and I'll quit playing if money becomes a requirement

[stoic garden]

others will tell you it's bad because of the blatant business model of making you gamble for little girls and fawn over them but whatever, but as a game, the only good thing it has is the story

[polar cedar]

lmao

[stoic garden]

what if the game requires no gambling to enjoy, play and finish

[sudden pewter]

That’s fine then, I’m very anti-gambling especially when they’re heavily pushed into games with intentionally habit forming designs. Mobile games as a whole will never be real games mainly due to the fact developers aren’t making games, they’re making gambling machines to sell you.

[stoic garden]

yea unfortunately, with mobile gaming being such a large market with such a large user base you cant help it but try and squeeze money out of it

there's several games that are very functional on their own without monetization mechanics (gambling or ads for rewards) but, because they're mobile games (and therefore free to attract players) you kinda gotta put some ads here and there for the revenue

[sudden pewter]

I largely blame China as that’s predominantly the target audience for western mobile devs.

[compact tundra]

I'ma keep giving updates for the castle cause I like my castle.

So I decided to forgo the tutorial for a while and freehand some stuff last night. I jumped the gun a bit and went ahead and did the interior for a building but I think it'll be good, might make the castle more unique and I'll just work around any issues that this causes later in the tutorial.
So I decided for one of the flower beds I'd instead make it into a garden/park, and since the other side of the building bordering the garden will be the archery range, which I plan to make more of like a sports archery rather than a training ground. I decided to make the building that connects the park and the range a restraunt/bar. I made the doors and windows first and worked from there so the entire restaurant was built around the view. I did the first flower bed, then the windows and door openings, then the interior, and I think that workflow made the interior look really cool and unique. I'm also super proud of the layering I did for the garden, decided to have it follow the road so it flows like a natural hill and I'ma have that follow across to the otheru flowerbeds so the whole castle courtyard looks like it's built on hills.

Btw if the castle updates are annoying just let me know, I just like talking about my castle and this is a good place to yap in.

[vocal stone]

You can't say "shit" but "shits" is completely fine, the censorship in the finals needs to be studied

[sudden pewter]

I’m certain it’s a general blacklist provided by Nexon and not Embarks discretion

[ember sail]

Fart is censored in the game not making this up

[last steeple]

It would make so much sense

[unkempt moss]

You ever play Enshrouded?

[alpine sphinx]

chat filters are fucking lame, let people say whatever they want, its not like the game is for kids

[compact tundra]

I Haven't

[unkempt moss]

Its a fun game, but its the best building experience that I've had and the community on the discord is awesome.

I play survival crafters pretty much solely for the building. Of everything ive played its by far the best for building.

Bonus is the base game/adventures is exceptionally fun as well. Plus the devs are amazing.

1.0 comes out this year so keep an eye on it if you're interested.

[candid vessel]

Whats the worst. Helldivers?

[candid vessel]

The fact idiot gets censored is wild to me

[alpine sphinx]

Fk also gets censored

lmao also used to get censored, but I'm not sure if that's still the case

It's ridiculous, just let people type what they want, at least make the filter optional or something

[candid vessel]

Yeah that would be great

[thick thunder]

Damn gets censored

[alpine sphinx]

There way too many 4 letter words that get censored which can completely change the meaning of a sentence

[distant cargo]

I sometimes just let the game keep going whilst I watch Instagram. If people choose to be trash at the game I just refuse to play.

For example, the kinds of people that get themselves killed on the first cashout and immediately coin in. Then they get themselves killed again and waste coins.

Some people just don't deserve a teammate.

[muted condor]

Yes

[unkempt moss]

Nothing more pathetic than giving up, even if your team is bad. Pulled plenty of matches out of the trash by playing to the bitter end. Fix your scrub mentality and i guarantee you win more matches.

[distant cargo]

I want to enjoy my time playing the game

[unkempt moss]

Having a loser mentality isnt going to make that happen.

The one undeserving of a teammate is you.

[zealous pike]

Goo king is lowk right bro. Ngl GooKing is kinda the goat cuz hes a heavy and heavys ESPCIALLY heavys with the mentality of Mr. GooKing are genuine goats. Always Always fight to the bitter end

[sudden pewter]

Then play with likeminded players rather than intentionally rolling the dice and whining when you get snake eyes.

[distant cargo]

Might as well delete the game at this point

"Find 2 people to always be available to play when you need it" sorry I'm not unemployed

[violet horizon]

Deep rock galactic has something similar I think with the optional filter

[distant cargo]

Once you get matched with bad teammates and good enemies you already lost

Not leaving the game at that point is a waste of time

[violet horizon]

isn't the gameplay itself fun enough? That's what keeps me playing

[distant cargo]

It's only fun when you have a team you mesh well with

[violet horizon]

If that's the way it is for you, ok i guess

[distant cargo]

Its a team based game

[violet horizon]

yep

[distant cargo]

I don't get why you don't understand that

"Why are you unsatisfied when you have bad teammates in a team-based game?"

"If you don't think a horror game is scary that's your fault? The gameplay itself should be the reason why you enjoy it!"

[distant cargo]

I am employed, I don't have the time to wade through miles of shit just to get a decent game.

[hallow stag]

I’m employed too, I do enjoy the gameplay itself, but I do understand having a good team can make you feel better about it. I usually play medium with a model. Used to play strong med-beam, now I use shockwave btw. Both are fun, but shockwave’s better for solo play in my opinion.

[distant cargo]

This is fundamentally an issue with matchmaking. Everyone complains about that but when I bring it up here im the bad guy

There is NO reason why I should be forced to team with people who have played for >10 hours whilst going against higher level players

At this point ranked is probably easier than cashout, because of this

[somber tiger]

Honestly, you should delete it if you can't learn to play with teammates you don't consider worthy of your time

[distant cargo]

There is no learning to play with people who don't even know how to play the game

There is just losing due to no fault of the player

[distant cargo]

Like quite literally, like I said, maybe if you read what I say instead of instantly trying to clap back to denigrate me

[somber tiger]

You can learn to improve your own gameplay or tell them more effective strategies.

[distant cargo]

That's another big ass issue, I cant fucking tell them shit because they NEVER have Voicechat enabled. I never have any issues with people I can talk to

And I cant use text chat because im on Playstation

Typing on that would take too long to be useful

[distant cargo]

I don't know what is going on with this game specifically, but people rarely ever use voice chat

[unkempt moss]

Okay... so are plenty of other people. Im employed, have a 5 month old, and many other hobbies.

[distant cargo]

You also dont play the game anymore

[unkempt moss]

I have recently. And still play other games. I popped back in for the LTM. And I only stopped playing at the end of season 9 which wasn't long ago.

But youre welcome to continue making excuses. Surely someday you'll convince everyone here of your excuses.

[distant cargo]

Excuses arent intrinsically wrong

[unkempt moss]

True. But your mindset is one of failure. I'm a firm believer of a good mindset getting you diamond. I can tell you are expecting your teammates to play around you because you think you are correct in your action. When I play solo I build and play around my teammates.

[broken mulch]

are we deadass

[unkempt moss]

Path of least resistance is usually the way to solo queue.

[broken mulch]

has to be ragebait

[distant cargo]

It seems like you just don't value your time, you'll understand when you're older.

My teammates quite literally just kill themselves repeatedly, they have 0 value or strategy. Im not exaggerating here. All they do is LITERALLY kill themselves repeatedly

[broken mulch]

right because doomscrolling reels is a better use of your time

[somber tiger]

I think the real problem is that you only value your own time and not the time of others

[distant cargo]

At least its enjoyable

[broken mulch]

i know alot of people complain abt solo q but its really not that bad, most of the time ur teammates range from below average to average

[unkempt moss]

Sure thing. Woe is you.

[broken mulch]

its frustrating when u get that one teammate who isnt even necessarily mechanically unskilled hes js never helping the team

but its not like thats happening every game, and if u think it is imma be real its prob u

[distant cargo]

"Js" I see the issue, you're completely brainrotted.

[broken mulch]

oh my bad i use abbreviations

[distant cargo]

Needing an abbreviation for a 4 letter word might (and I am being literal here) be a sign of mental disability

[broken mulch]

lukewarm ragebait

[distant cargo]

Why dont you just call it bait like people have been doing for years? You need to add letters to short words but remove them from short words.

[broken mulch]

lukewarm ragebait

[distant cargo]

Yeah thats what I thought

[broken mulch]

damn you got me

[distant cargo]

Why are you even talking

Ive proven to hold dominion over you, you're probably a girl or effeminate

[broken mulch]

lukewarm ragebait

[somber tiger]

Watch out guys, he's resorted to meaningless insults!

[unkempt moss]

I thought you said your time was valuable? Youre sitting in here crying to a bunch of people. How valuable can it be?

[tardy light]

Daily yellow role rage posting

[broken mulch]

no but fr what could this possibly mean

[tardy light]

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-gojo-yellow-role-gif-2475892790391981505

[tardy light]

It means he loves twinks

[broken mulch]

and he wishes i was one ig

to each their own i dont judge

[tardy light]

Well… are you one?

[sudden pewter]

True colors revealed, explains the awful minigun take

[broken mulch]

only on tuesdays

[tardy light]

Darn he just missed it

[broken mulch]

a real shame

[unkempt moss]

Mom i baited the discord server, can you put the chat logs on the fridge!

[broken mulch]

he baited all over me

[sudden pewter]

NGL the AlfaActa sword goes hard. Love the skin

[spring oasis]

Shitter mentality

[sudden pewter]

@muted condor I get it.

Not only does he defib me in LoS of 3 enemies, he then proceeds to throw a pyro grenade at me.

[violet horizon]

Finaly some weapons talk in the weapons chat

that fit goes hard btw

sure it's mostly one set but it still goes hard

[distant cargo]

Ever hear of multitasking?

[distant cargo]

Having the minigun destroy a build with 50 bullets isn't insane

I don't think it'd break the game, just makes the ammo use towards destruction slightly more efficient

It is a tiny quality of life improvement for the niche sect of people that can get use out of having the extra destructive capabilities

Im actually going to time the difference between 75 and 50 bullets

JUST TO ILLUSTRATE HOW THIS WOULDN'T NUKE THE ENTIRE GAME'S BALANCE

The difference is 2 seconds at most

It normally takes 6 seconds to shoot 75 bullets

Changing it down to 50 would make it 4 seconds

That is reasonable, maybe 4.5

I don't see a reason why the minigun shouldn't have that, it would be a minor improvement

Like people have said, adding 50 bullets didn't make the gun overpowered or anything, but its just slightly more convenient to use

2 seconds is also reasonable considering they still have to wait to actually start shooting the gun

If you are chasing a target and want to destroy a wall even if the building damage made it so a build would be destroyed in 25 bullets, that is still more than enough time to get away if you're any class that isn't heavy

Builds with the anti-gravity cube tend to do well with destruction, I think the buff to build damage would mostly be an AGC buff in disguise

Which every game stands to benefit from using the best gadget in the game

[unkempt moss]

Youre the minigun destruction guy. I was wondering who you were and why you had such a hard on for trolling this chat

[candid vessel]

Brother get a grip 😭

[distant cargo]

Ride a horse, yankee

[candid vessel]

I live in London mate im not a yank

[sudden pewter]

Full 24h later and he still cannot comprehend why the demolition damage doesn’t need a buff. Brick wall

[sudden pewter]

Did Bungie kill drifter yet and sunset Gambit or is he still hanging onto life

[candid vessel]

I think hes still kicking around

[distant cargo]

London is the second biggest yankee city

[vocal stone]

Lmaoo

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071067310766436372/1327328945678450779/caption.gif

[icy egret]

I find it quite dumb that the Minigun just... Loses DPS races if you haven't revved it for at least a few seconds before actually fighting. I caught a SHAK heavy off guard going up stairs but I lose the DPS race because I just revved up instead of revving for several seconds.

I've been noticing it more the more I use the weapon.

[near scroll]

embarf™

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-nothing-look-at-the-time-nothing-clock-nothing-ever-happens-clock-gif-4518983960573307132

[unkempt moss]

Isnt that kinda its thing?

[icy egret]

I was shooting the entire time the other guy was.

But the minigun gains damage over time the longer it is revved up (including revving up with the m2)

Unless you've been there for several seconds, you're not beating anyone on DPS even if fully revved.

[unkempt moss]

Like a barrel heat mechanic?

Thats interesting. Good to know.

[icy egret]

You don't shoot with maximum RPM for a few seconds, yes. I'm not sure if this is recorded down anywhere, but it exists.

[unkempt moss]

I believe you.

[icy egret]

There's a similar thing in TF2 for Heavy but it's far less annoying

[icy egret]

You can tell by the audio when you rev up the the M2. It's slower for a few seconds, I'll record it.

[unkempt moss]

No need. I believe you.

[icy egret]

Thanks. I'm not really used to that in this chat.

😄

[unkempt moss]

I feel that. Depends who's in the chat really.

I will say I like to argue for things I dont believe just to fire up the boyz sometimes. So I dont help that problem

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330475386261536/1466625149104029696/graphing-ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[hardy breach]

Clan: Pistol Packers Tag: PSTLS

[sudden pewter]

Wrong channel silly goose

[lone charm]

@fair sable to the shadow realm with them

[icy egret]

For my own sanity. In the first video you can hear how the clicking is slower at the start, then a comparison. I think it's more marginal than I would've though but I think it definitely exists.

[unkempt moss]

How do I join?

[fair sable]

I had to search if that was a new slur or something

[hardy breach]

whats ur embark id

[fair sable]

But he was just spammin

[unkempt moss]

C4tter#4356

[icy egret]

LOL.

[hardy breach]

inv sent

[unkempt moss]

Thx 😘

Lex can I @ u if just need someone to talk to?

Or bounce ideas off of?

[fair sable]

Yes ofc

[fair sable]

For ideas idk what I can contribute tho

[unkempt moss]

Your thoughts are all I require.

Here's one. M2 on flamethrower, provides upwards thrust similar to antigrav lift.

Good or bad idea?

[candid vessel]

Solar confirmed ceo of alfa acta confirmed (guy loves a graph and i respect it tbh)

[fair sable]

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-calculation-calculating-equations-math-gif-16997377

[icy egret]

We're taking a lot from TF2 I see.

[candid vessel]

Ur just gonna roast ur ankles

[fair sable]

I think you're forgetting I only have 100hrs on the game, lvl 29 unranked

[sudden pewter]

Fact checking this right now

[unkempt moss]

Never played it.

[icy egret]

A lot of weapons here are near carbon-copies of their versions over there. The Dagger is the Spy's knife, the Minigun is very similar to Heavy's Minigun, the idea you just suggested is extremely similar to what Airblast is.

[unkempt moss]

Youre in your prime for fun ideas right now.

C4tter, the resident minigun and TF2 fella, said airblast is a knock back.

[icy egret]

Airblast works like, reflecting projectiles, pushing players, I could imagine it also pushing objects in this game.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah I want to be a jet trooper but fly fatly

[fair sable]

I'm in the phase where I use c4, and spam clicks it hoping it detonates with enough clicks

[icy egret]

This is a much different game but it is the corner-stone of Pyro's viability in TF2.

[unkempt moss]

Youre my perfect angel. So should the flamethrower allow for thrust on alternate fire?

[icy egret]

Please do. I will concede if I have just mandela effected myself, and peer-reviewing is proper science.

[eager wasp]

is this not what everyone does

[unkempt moss]

Dont worry about anything but if it would make the weapon more fun. Dont let the thought terminators deter you from fun.

[lucid blaze]

Like a short burst blow when you right click or something? Will it generate the same effect as shockwave?

[sudden pewter]

It is yes, airblast is the secondary fire of the flamethrower that in-engine uses a cone to reflect projectiles or apply force onto players, I say force rather than knockback because the force can reflect off of surfaces due to source spaghetti. If you look down at the grown while airblasting you launch your foe higher into the air than looking directly at them, or looking up would.

[unkempt moss]

No. Its sustained lift similar to anti grav cube. And is affected by other sources of vertical lift like jumping and pad.

[fair sable]

Thrust huh, not sure. won't that be a balance issue?

[icy egret]

Air blast in TF2 is a whole can of worms after Jungle Inferno.

[unkempt moss]

How so?

[sudden pewter]

It would be, as would airblast.

[icy egret]

Jungle Inferno was 9 years ago now, I cry.

[candid vessel]

Omg ur red now congrats

[sudden pewter]

Grats on red. Also yes, pre-spinning results in a faster TTK. (Not just due to the spin time either)

[unkempt moss]

Uses ammo, doesnt provide an immense amount of vertical lift unless coupled with another cooldown.

It would require resource management to use in active combat. But provide synergy with other stuff in heavy's kit that would be pretty entertaining.

[fair sable]

I feel like most guns in The Finals are balanced around having clear strengths and weaknesses, though I’ve only used like 10 so far.
Giving the flamethrower a secondary ability might kinda go against its role as a simple, beginner-friendly weapon.

[icy egret]

In TF2, it costs 20 ammo to airblast with stock.

That'd be 3 ammo in The Finals.

[unkempt moss]

Alright. Banished to the Gouf pages.

[sudden pewter]

Airblast serves multiple purposes in TF2, reflecting projectiles, stopping Ubercharged players, clearing sticky traps. The same function in The Finals serves little to no purpose beyond safely pushing an enemy out of your effective range. The only use-case it would have is knocking players into OOB pits.

[unkempt moss]

I didnt even want airblast tho. Why would I want a bump them out of flamethrower range button?

[icy egret]

Thank you.

[unkempt moss]

None of my dreamers in chat. Killing me.

My knights RS, Unjust, and Drywall missing in my time of need.

[eager wasp]

i think you forgot "mos" in that list, just here to remind you

[unkempt moss]

Tell me an idea you want for the game. We'll see if youre a Dream Knight.

The cat in your picture is very cute so thats a good start.

[near scroll]

i mean airblasting mines and shit would be useful, isnt that smth shockwave does?

[sudden pewter]

Yes, but thats shockwave, not the flamethrower.

[near scroll]

idk what we were talking about sorry

[unkempt moss]

People sleeping on the Jet Trooper rework.

[lofty parrot]

I think we need a 25 kill nuclear explosion after 25 kills

[sudden pewter]

Oh my fucking god how did I not realize this

[sudden pewter]

Working on putting a visual aid with a timer and explanation, give me like 3 more minutes

Might actually be worth mentioning on the wiki

[lofty parrot]

Add leaf blower to the game

[near scroll]

embarf™

[lofty parrot]

I think a high powered water blower would really make our lives easier with sword using lights

[unkempt moss]

Can we get FLUDD from Sunshine as a heavy spec

[lofty parrot]

Add bf hardline weapins and ammo

[deep karma]

Are we talking about my boy

[near scroll]

jetpack finally added and it's fucking fludd lol

but ngl fludd is hype and i love sunshine so i wouldn't complain

[unkempt moss]

Fludd and all the forms it has would be amazing.

[sudden pewter]

If it wasn't currently 1:13am I'd have also done tests against Medium & Heavy. Unfortunately I have work in 5h and I need to sleep.

[lofty parrot]

May the shit ass be with you, always...

[icy egret]

I feel like the "having to rev up" part is enough.

[sudden pewter]

The schpeel at the end isn't for you btw, I'm a petty god and the players asking for the Minigun to be changed displease me greatly.

[icy egret]

Oh yes, I do think that the Minigun should be the weapon that does kill you if you get caught of guard.

I'm just saying that if I predict where someone is going to be and pre-spun, I shouldn't be punished for not having done it sooner.

[sudden pewter]

My god I'm such a dumbass I should have added a VHS effect at the end and an alfa acta sponsorship ughhhhh

I'll modify it later

I need to sleep. Night Night

[icy egret]

This video would probably fit on the wiki.

[icy egret]

Sweet dreams.

Singular ass. Would've been double if not for lots of kill theft.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1026155219513516032/1495356489152336003/17765911650432570901564782083938.gif

[icy egret]

Golden ticket alley. Please let me get the watch before the event ends, it's a cool watch. I don't want to pay for it.

Especially since I barely ever get to see my watch, it doesn't really show on any of the weapons I use, especially with my gauntlets.

[unkempt moss]

This guy cooking or nah?

[icy egret]

I agree to be honest.

To a degree.

This is kind of the same with all specializations. They're specializations.
Mesh - Purely defensive (Juggling is a myth and also defensive)
Winch - Purely offensive with some utility in moving things, even then it's a great spec. because of versatility.
Goo gun - Purely defensive.
Charge 'n' Slam - Has to be either or with commitment.
Shockwave - This is just Medium's version of Dash but worse with added utility. Has far more commitment though.
Healing Beam - Purely defensive.
Sentry - Purely defensive.
Demateralizer - Has to be either or with commitment.
Grapple - Has to be either or with commitment.
Invisibility - Ditto above.

Dash feels like an outlier in level of commitment. You don't have to think about Dash, you just do it.

And at that, it's probably the most versatile specialization in the game besides Goo Gun which has a massive skill and knowledge requirement behind it.

Not saying it's OP or anything, it's not, but it is extremely versatile in a way nothing else really is.

And the fact it can non-committal escape, I do think making it have to aim where you Dash would make it a more committal option.

It can easily make mistakes non-punishable. Like I caught a dash knives light off-guard in my Point Break match just before, I got them really low because I punished their mistake, but they just immediately dashed behind a building.

[near scroll]

there's a huge difference in power level with the other two light specs tho which has eternally been the problem

dash is fine this dash is fine that, bro idc i'm still seeing dash on 90% of lights and it's pissing me the fuck off

[random depot]

rather dash than cloak

[icy egret]

I'd rather cloak be completely reworked.

[near scroll]

cloak shoulda been reworked seasons ago ngl

[indigo nexus]

Assuming you couldn’t quickly follow them, they could also have used mesh shield or goo gun to a similar effect, no?

[icy egret]

Mesh shield doesn't literally remove them from the encounter, neither does Goo really after the changes. You can just walk up to the mesh player and bash them, or jump rev. Either or, they're far more committal with actual counterplay in that scenario.

[icy egret]

Celebration.

[indigo nexus]

Fair enough, I suppose it’s more likely you can do something about it.

However, light at a baseline being able to die so fast makes me not sure that this is actually indicative of a problem.

[icy egret]

It's less an issue of being able to escape but level of commitment. And some ease of use, Dash is incredibly strong for how easy it is to use while shooting.

Having to aim your Dash probably wouldn't decrease the strength of it while making it more committal and likely increase the skill required. I'm for this change.

[dire fog]

i got all 3 last rewards in the last day.

Straight up 3 items for 3 tickets.

I'm so lucky and i fucking hate Embark for giving me gambling addiction. 😭

[last steeple]

I mean okay but why would being able to deal damages at the same time as dashing would be a problem

Stop nerfing dashes

[lone charm]

i rolled 3 times today with 19/20 and remained 19/20
i will never gamble again. there's no good in it

[stuck wedge]

you can ask ai to argue against its own point. it’s one of several suggestions gpt will make.

(regarding dash)
i think even with that change people who struggle with dash would still lose & the class would feel worse for nothing. (just like the recent dash nerf)

[near scroll]

at embarf™, nothing ever happens

[stuck wedge]

it sort of reads like every time a heavy throws dome shield they now need to guide it into a cup using a/d. successful ball in the cup players can still make use of dome shield. but now they can play ball in the cup at the same time.

what’s the point essentially besides making it feel cumbersome to use? should RPG require solving a puzzle before firing? etc. just kinda silly.

[last steeple]

I AM ALL FOR RPG'S PUZZLE

[stuck wedge]

pragmata style lol

idk i’ve definitely spent time thinking about it and arguing about dash with gpt just to see what it says. i’ve been maining medium this season & have been melting dashing lights with akm the whole time. sometimes there is a truly skilled dasher & my team mate is the one who helps me with that.

i think if someone is good with it it’s okay for them to be hard to play against. with automatic weapons it doesn’t feel that bad & is i would say even fun to ego check dashing lights.

i think worth learning to adapt to keep a fun play style instead of just nerfing everything out of existence. that guy claims to main Light btw. a little disingenuous imo.

[vocal stone]

Update 10.9 will be groundbreaking

[icy egret]

I wouldn't use AI for any game advice, it is going to be terrible at it.

As with any game. It doesn't actually understand what it's saying.

[stuck wedge]

well then the suggestion is entirely moot. it was never my idea. i just did it to make a point against anti Light users.

[last steeple]

Yep I don't think it's a problem that you can shoot while dashing, like you actually need a nice tracking to do it consistently, dashes are a dueling spec so it allowing you to win duels you might have lost is normal bruh, you can still beam dashing lights if you're a great player, and finally dashes can also be used to reposition yourself, flee and chase, so you have to be careful when using em, if you spend too much on a kill you js get traded

I haven't seen the clips caus I forgot my twitch password but pretty sure they're not representative of most situations 😭 (dashing doesn't make you invincible)

[stuck wedge]

it definitely doesn’t. before i had shadow play running yesterday i had some dash moments (on medium) that made me giggle & im sure confounded the light player. it’s rewarding imo.

i do wonder if there should be something in the academy to help practice dealing with Lights though.

[last steeple]

Ehh maybe since most of the lights complains are from inexperienced players

[stuck wedge]

yeah. i know that’s sort of like arming your enemy vibes but if someone really wants to play and wants to learn they should have the opportunity (and really no excuses)

maybe one day they will be buffing dash? lol

[last steeple]

Ehh it's still a really great spec anyways it doesn't need one, it could use one ofc but it would be cool if embark would buff the other options too

[icy egret]

Not so bad from missing a few of the days.

I wouldn't use what is left anyways.

[tame aspen]

Nah this would make it basically useless for close range and also reduces survivability and it isn’t overpowered or anything so Idk why it would even need a rework like this most complaints are tied to skill issue and it certainly seems like this is one

[broken mulch]

oh yea what did the golden tickets do i never rolled one

[stoic garden]

they just give you another ticket

[candid vessel]

Guarantee a reward

Block 10K damage gotta be the worst contract in the game icl. Going into powershift for 1-2 matches and doing nothing but throwing goo nades, dome shields and having mesh up is so boring

And unless you main mesh heavy you’re never getting it done passively

[icy egret]

I've been enjoying Mesh Heavy a lot since the buff.

[rare echo]

Can I get y’all’s opinion on this?

Anti Gravity Cube Viability Changes:

1. Lift Speed Increase - players 1.5 times faster & raises objects/cashouts 2.0 times faster
2. Cube Recall - be able to recall the cube early BUT no cooldown reduction. It’s simply an option to end the cubes duration early.

Either of these changes would allow for more stall/ utility potential.

[sudden pewter]

1.) No
2.) You can shoot the cube to end it early.

[candid vessel]

AG cube is already massively slept on. Mainly because it shines brightest when you bring in other kit around it to use with it

[unkempt moss]

Good try. I see the vision for the changes. I think the multiplier on the lift increase might be too intense as a starting buff though

And making the speed different between objectives and players would get clunky. If anything it would probably need to be the other way since the players are so much lighter than the objective.

[candid vessel]

Been using it with ks23 and winch and its sooooooo fun

[candid vessel]

You could literally move a cashout across manhattan

Even got the fabled double ass in PB

[icy egret]

No wonder I'm constantly getting S support if 1k is A. My average support is nearing 6k.

[umbral kraken]

someone please tell me when/how they nerfed the winch
for at least the past week, ive barely been able to winch a box up a floor, taking 3 attempts just to have it bounce off floors and not move at all
previously i could easily winch a box up 2 floors, no issue

[last steeple]

Last nerf was in the beginning of s9 🧍‍♂️

[spiral turret]

Wow

[sudden pewter]

Choose your next words carefully.

[spiral turret]

Fair enough, I'm just trying to rank up to be able to name voice chats lol

[sudden pewter]

Rather than spam, engage in conversation or at least have the decency to keep it in #⚡┇the-finals-chat . This is hallowed ground.

[spiral turret]

Aye aye cap

You like a mod or something?

[sudden pewter]

No just a smartass.

[obtuse tulip]

whats everyones thoughts on the model?

[candid vessel]

Second worst gun in the game. Fun but horrendous

[sudden pewter]

Very fun, not good to 1v1 with it though. Very much an advantage pusher weapon

[candid vessel]

Problem is that its objectively worse than the repeater in literally every way

[sudden pewter]

Aye but you can stay much more mobile with the model as it’s a shotgun so it doesn’t have a hipfire penalty. Whereas you need to do quick flicks with the repeater which is significantly harder

[candid vessel]

ADS time is quick enough that even in cqc situations it completely rolls the model tho

Like the model needs to be doing 14 damage a pellet imo

Because currently its just awful

[sudden pewter]

I can’t consistently 1v1 a model player with the Repeater but I’m also not super cracked (yet) so I cannot say

I do enjoy using the model though, you’re forced to play it differently due to the TTK differences from other medium weapons

[rare echo]

I know you can shoot cube to end it early but I feel like being able to remotely end the AGC lift would give it that much more depth in stalling and gravity manipulation. It wouldn’t make it much better but just enough it could maybe compete with C4 in terms of stalling.

[sudden pewter]

It shouldn’t be competing with C4. The gravity well goes through terrain. You can affect a cashout station without the need of LoS, just throw it from a floor below.

[rare echo]

Again, I know my cube is level 10 or something now and I love it but its largest weakness is:

1. can be destroyed without providing value unlike C4 that still explodes when destroyed.
2. causes massive issues for teammates who don’t know how to play around/ with the cube. Which is like 85% of the playerbase.

I feel like being able to activate a remote kill switch could make it better with team play/ can give it a lift and drop playstyle for stall. Also I’m sure the devs will never see this anyways so it’s all just theoretical. But I’d like to think that simple change could give it SOOOO much more value on top of all the crazy stuff you can already do with it.

[sudden pewter]

If the cube isn’t providing value, there’s a large chance it was counterplayed (ex Enemy heavy winched the vault out of it) or you fucked up the placement. In either instance the cube isn’t at fault.
Teamates find it difficult to play around the cube, I agree. I largely attribute this to the cube not communicating your intent effectively.

If a teammate sees me place C4 on an entryway such as a door or avenue, and sit with my RPG at the ready it’s obvious I’m looking to deal heavy burst damage on an unfortunate foe. If I put C4 on the objective it’s clearly there for stall. A gravity cube communicates none of these things. Is the heavy:

• farming XP
• being a dumbass
• trying to travel vertically
• manipulate the cashbox/vault/station
• slow enemy ingress
• slam combo
  I don’t know, there’s very few ways to tell.

Know what? I’ve changed my mind. Let it be manually deactivated. In exchange; the cube has a faint glow that visually clarifies where the gravity well stems from.

[rare echo]

I agree so I feel like a kill switch could make it more “user friendly”. Especially spending some time studying how Ekazo uses it, I’ve noticed that even with clear comms and purpose per use it can be clunky/ a hinderance. So if you could use it for what you need then kill it. That would be even more of a top tier “big brain” gadget

[sudden pewter]

Cube is already a big brain gadget. It doesn’t need manual deactivation to fulfill that.

[rare echo]

I’m down for that. Seems fair. I mean it’s fairly easy to ID now anyways

[sudden pewter]

I’ve only ever had my cube shot at twice since S5. It could be a symptom of it not being seen often so the average player doesn’t understand its counterplay.

[rare echo]

Yeah same. I think it truly is 1) lack of knowledge to shoot it 2) unable to waste time shooting it during chaos 3) can’t hit it with the added in-air inaccuracy.

[sudden pewter]

It can be shot from outside the well, the visual distortion doesn’t do much since there’s still a static outline visible through the effect, but my rationale is the faint glow would add more visual interest drawing the average players eyes more effectively

[rare echo]

Yeah I think that’d be totally fair. Also people usually shoot at the regular looking cube itself rather than the outline (the actual cube hitbox) because of the distortion. So maybe just get rid of the distortion on the cube itself rather than the glow?

Either seem like a good change to make counter play easier

[sudden pewter]

I feel the distortion has good reason to be there, I wouldn’t want to get rid of it entirely

[unkempt moss]

Its over. Harada is making a bowling game instead.

[sudden pewter]

Not sure what or who Harada is but I’ve zero interest in sports games.

[unkempt moss]

Bowling isn't a sport so it works out

[sudden pewter]

It isn’t? Are you certain?

[unkempt moss]

I've played it. Its not athletic enough for me to consider it a sport.

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."

[sudden pewter]

The only sport I actively follow would be women’s nude mud wrestling. Everything else is quite boring.

I have a large amount of respect for athletes but I abhor the corruption present in many leagues and the ego, worship, and debauchery many fall into.

Then again, if I had millions of dollars, celebrity status, and a drug addiction, perhaps I too would start viciously physically abusing my significant other.

That came out of nowhere perhaps I’ll take a nap.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah that's probably best. I saw you almost agree with an idea that wasn't communication or UI based. So there's something deeply wrong

[sudden pewter]

Gravity Cube is the actual artists gadget. It’s very weak on its own but has interesting synergies with other tools in the Heavy arsenal.

If you’re running GooGun you can put a dollop of it on the cube to prevent it from being reshaped or shot at.

You can throw it and slam enemies out of it a very significant distance.

It can pair with winch to make objectives easier to manipulate.

The issue with Gravity Cube on its own is that it does very little of use. In that regard it’s somewhat similar to Gravity Vortex.

[unkempt moss]

I think it scoots the cube when you goo it.

[sudden pewter]

Vortex may pull the objective, but without another object with weight to play off the objective it sort of just floats serenely?

[unkempt moss]

Ive been a gravity cube main since its inception so I know the value very well.

Since the defib sickness update its also the number one and defib gadget.

Anti defib*

[sudden pewter]

Cube needs something but I’m very hesitant to give it a clear designated role. It can’t be mobility, Heavy shouldn’t have on demand mobility. It could be CC, but additionally adding a slow to such a huge AOE beyond simply adjusting gravity would likely make it less nuanced.

More work needs to be done with idols tbh. Placing a mine on them isn’t relevant anymore as once you pick them up, they deactivate. Reviving someone also makes them respawn next to you, so if you revive from a distance to the statue they won’t trigger mines.

[unkempt moss]

I use it as all of those things already. Throw it in doors to cut it off, jump cube for mobility.

I throw it on trophies to deter revives and make it more dangerous.

[candid vessel]

The fact that mines and c4 deactivate on statues is diabolical

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been using Spear in PointBreak and suffered another RCE. (Nowhere near as bad as the last) But once I’m back to using firearms I’ll definitely use cube more

[unkempt moss]

My cube gets used basically off cooldown.

[candid vessel]

Idk why tf they do that. Thats literally what mines are for; putting them in places where the enemy has to get close to them

[unkempt moss]

Snagging off of moving platforms by throwing under. Its so useful.

[sudden pewter]

Idol Snukes

Also, everyone else is too afraid to say it so I suppose I will: Calvin is the worst among the personable gadget skins.

[candid vessel]

And mines as a whole are pretty ass anyway. Only real use is combining pyro mines and c4 for an explosive inferno on a cashout, but by themselves they aint it

[unkempt moss]

Yeah it should have been Andy Grav. Been saying it since day one.

[candid vessel]

100%

[sudden pewter]

Mines are absolutely wonderful and I would personally consider each and everyone an S tier gadget.

[candid vessel]

Ive put 2 pyro mines next to each other and seen them both be triggered simultaneously by a light, and the light survives

And 2 explosive mines wont kill a medium, and you can only carry 1

[sudden pewter]

Explosive minds cool down is relatively quick and you can have up to three active at any given time. Pyramids now only deal 80 damage with the value coming from the crowd control due to the presence of fire.

[candid vessel]

I thought the limit on exp mines was 2?

[unkempt moss]

I dont think theyre supposed to replace your primary

[stoic garden]

are you sure it's 3?

[sudden pewter]

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong I was using them in point break yesterday and I want to say that the limit is three

Then again I was playing with the duo and we were stacking mines so I may very well have been confusing one of his for my own

[stoic garden]

both memory and wiki say it's 2

[candid vessel]

Also pyro mines do 55 on initial trigger

Which is why they’re useless by themselves, and 2 will most often not kill a light

[sudden pewter]

Was that not adjusted late last season?

[candid vessel]

That was ages ago iirc

9.0 just checked

[sudden pewter]

I’m old and crunchy so it’s still relatively fresh in my mind

[unkempt moss]

But solar says the wiki is wrong all the time so who knows

[sudden pewter]

The wiki is wrong all the time. While it’s generally somewhat reliable it isn’t infallible.

[candid vessel]

Yeah ive noticed a couple small mistakes on it

[sudden pewter]

The M134 wiki page has no mention of the RoF TTK difference for example.

[candid vessel]

But i know this for a fact because i remember seeing someone being annoyed at the time, and they mentioned specific numbers

[unkempt moss]

I guess I thought it was obvious that the ttk was faster on a spun mini.

[candid vessel]

Yeah i was certain it was 2

[candid vessel]

I think the reason they did it is because the explosion on the pyro mine was comparable to the explosion on the explosive mine, so they nerfed pyro instead of buffing explosive despite both being mid

[obtuse tulip]

does the pellet spread on the model tighten if you scope?

[unkempt moss]

I don't think so

[candid vessel]

Yeah i dont think so either

[pastel wyvern]

no buckshot shotgun does that

the finals is a very realistic game after all

[stoic garden]

no shotgun in this game tightens its spread when adsing

[distant cargo]

That is the point

[sudden pewter]

This alongside allowed instances should be information present in the equipment menu.

[stoic garden]

save for ks, if you can even consider it ads, since u aint aiming down no sight

[pastel wyvern]

i need to slap pyro mines on my light teammates

[sudden pewter]

The only shotgun in the game with a hipfire penalty is the KS23. Every other shotgun fires the exact same regardless of ADS state.

[distant cargo]

It feels beautiful to have gadgets that only exist to synergize with other playstyles and add creativity

[candid vessel]

The bars need to go man. Ik the gadgets have no bars and should definitely display stuff like what you just mentioned, but for the main weapons the bars have to go

[distant cargo]

The gravity vortex is kinda mid thought

[pastel wyvern]

how can i use antigrav for more than just cashout stalling and manipulation

[distant cargo]

I dislike anything that requires you to be alive for it to be useful

Most mines and gadgets will still be able to change the game if you are killed

[pastel wyvern]

yeah like turret ❤️

[candid vessel]

Its good for 50/50ing people if you have a low airborne accuracy penalty weapon

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been championing QoL update of the equipment menu since S6.

[candid vessel]

KS23 loses almost no accuracy while floating its so awesome

[distant cargo]

You can use it to block off entrances or exits, like a temporary barricade

[candid vessel]

I dont blame you it was ass 2.5 years ago and its still ass now

[distant cargo]

Wtf is wrong with the equipment menu

[sudden pewter]

You can use them on suspended structures to effectively trap Heavies and Mediums on zips and funnel them into kill corners if they use launch pads.

[candid vessel]

The trigger area on mines is too small to guarantee them going off if someone goes for a cashout tho

[candid vessel]

Whats not wrong with it

[stoic garden]

and that's precisely why you gotta place them smart

[candid vessel]

Turret should get incendiary rounds

[pastel wyvern]

smart? in the finals ?

[stoic garden]

mines are kinda easily seen and shot, place them at the side of a door instead so people run in and get blown up for example

[candid vessel]

Even if you do you can still just about not set them off

[sudden pewter]

The beeping is also audible through walls

[candid vessel]

But you do have to be extremely careful

[candid vessel]

They’re great like just above the little vent openings

[stoic garden]

1. most players do not listen
2. that's a good way to stall if they wanna be silent

[sudden pewter]

1.) Yeah, the average player is a pineapple.
2.) Could you elaborate? Not sure I understand.

[distant cargo]

I concur, the area must be longer. Too many things in the game just dont feel like a serious threat. Most of the gadgets just finish off damaged lights.

[pastel wyvern]

when you're fighting the team equivalent of a fruit bowl

[candid vessel]

Yeah offensive gadgets as a whole are way too weak, bar rpg (which i think should have a slightly lower self damage multiplier)

[stoic garden]

you said the beeping is audible, if they know there's mines to the side of the door in front of them, they can decide to open another path or go somewhere else entirely, usually making a lot of noise, or open the door and glitch the mines, all of these kinda waste their time or exhaust their resources

[sudden pewter]

Ah, yes.

[stoic garden]

it's nothing crazy and i'm probably overthinking it, but it is a possibility

[candid vessel]

Carefully walking up to a cashout not setting the mines off and then a teammate running straight over them mid steal will never not make me sad

[sudden pewter]

I have a clip of a Light running through one mine, not stopping whatsoever, directly into a second

[candid vessel]

Average light behaviour

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, mines are one of the most effective counters to Lights insane mobility. If they choose to be chimps and not slow down to ensure their path is clear they lose 120hp generally which leaves them vulnerable to just about everything, alongside losing the element of surprise.

[stoic garden]

i have a clip of me juking a light, going behind a door, placing a mine on it and then comboing them with a ks shot for a near instakill

fuck am i saying i dont have no clip, cant even record without my fps going down to 30

[candid vessel]

I think mines should arm much faster. C4 arming slowly is fine but mines should be ready to blow the second they leave ur hand

[stoic garden]

they arm in 2 seconds the moment you throw them even mid air

[candid vessel]

2 seconds makes a big difference

[stoic garden]

i bet they do, which is probably why it should stay like that, i dont think mines should be such a reactive damage tool

[sudden pewter]

Mines are, and should be, proactive tools. Not reactive tools.

[candid vessel]

I mean the aoe isn’t big enough for it to be reactive, i think it would just make them better at punishing overconfident pushes

[sudden pewter]

They are traps, not grenades.

Having said that, pyro mine pairs wonderfully with MGL and Flamethrower.

[stoic garden]

me when i plop down a sneaky mine while running away from a melee player and suddenly they lost half their health

[candid vessel]

Yeah but traps are supposed to work by themselves. Currently walking over an explosive mine is like being hit with a pillow

[stoic garden]

or any player ever if you go behind corners lol

[sudden pewter]

120 is definitely not comparable to a pillow

[stoic garden]

120 damage is big

[candid vessel]

Yeah but its not good enough to kill anything at all

And the whole point of a trap is that its self sufficient, which they aren’t atm

[sudden pewter]

You can stack mines with other gadgets to ensure kills, but I’m of the position mines shouldn’t be free kills. They weaken, that’s more than enough.

[stoic garden]

maybe you should play the game instead of assuming things in a vacuum, there's barrels everywhere and you yourself can supplement the rest of the damage if possible

[candid vessel]

A landmine should be doing way more damage than a frag grenade, not way less

[sudden pewter]

Companion Barrels with an explosive mine ensure kills on Lights.

[stoic garden]

alongside the fact u can place another mine if you're proactive on the gameplay

[candid vessel]

Yeah but if you’re in a position to shoot them anyway then whats the point of the trap? Like i said earlier they need to be self sufficient

[sudden pewter]

No thoughts, just W key. (Ofc he’s on sword)

[stoic garden]

to kill them faster.

[candid vessel]

And if you put barrels next to them its just a huge giveaway

[sudden pewter]

Ideally the barrels wouldn’t be in LoS, nor the mine.

[stoic garden]

you dont react to mines exploding on your ass the same way a gun shoots at you, aint no dome or mesh saving you either

[sudden pewter]

Placing mines/barrels to the side of doorways leaves them out of LoS but will still trigger when someone enters the space.

[candid vessel]

Mines are never in LoS because they’re small and stick to walls

[stoic garden]

if you want to secure kills use barrels, double mines, bring pyro mines, c4, whatever lol

there's a billion tools at your disposal

they shouldn't be a self sufficient free kill so easily

[sudden pewter]

I consistently see mines placed on the floor guarding doorways or common avenues. While smart players will obviously try to obfuscate the visibility of the mine you should never assume any player will do it automatically.

There are also times an obvious mine is the correct play!

[candid vessel]

I do use pyro mine and c4 all the time in ranked because together they are brilliant, but by themselves they aren’t great, and explosive mines are really not great at all. I used them a lot last season and just gave up because they just lack the power required to be worth using

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/i-guess-bro-i-guess-bro-bro-what-whatever-you-say-gif-16572066316579867256

[sudden pewter]

I cannot believe what I’m reading isn’t bait.

[distant cargo]

We should get rocket jumping

[stoic garden]

i get that other utility gadgets have more value, sure, but i dont think you're using them mines well if you say the lack power

[candid vessel]

Why bother using a mine that needs me to finish the job when an akm/fcar can just evaporate anyone instantly anyway?

[sudden pewter]

The explosive mine is 120 damage you don’t need to do with the AKM/FCAR. The lack of health may very well make your foe avoid the engagement entirely.

[candid vessel]

I mean i did use them well and people would almost always trigger them

[stoic garden]

why run rpg when i can just singularly shoot everyone, one at a time while possibly losing a greater amount of health, possibly my life and that of my teammate's

[sudden pewter]

Explosive mine is in my top 10, if not top 5 gadgets.

[candid vessel]

Because rpg lets you hit people around corners

[stoic garden]

surely that's why people use it and not the burst aoe damage it provides that lets you kill them in almost half the time

[candid vessel]

I mean thats what i use it for because the eqiup/stow speed hurts your ttk quite a lot if you can actually aim

[candid vessel]

Also throwing a frag at someone and shooting them will kill them way faster than shooting someone as they walk over a mine

[distant cargo]

Yeah

[candid vessel]

Like if it doesn’t kill them outright and still needs me to be there then that defeats the point of it being a trap

[unkempt moss]

Did you used to run by a different name on this server?

[stoic garden]

number 1 mesh fan, remove winch it's killing heavy, other names i dont remember

[unkempt moss]

Gotcha. I didnt know if you were like Unjust where youre running on a temp name.

[stoic garden]

my account will always be the same name tho

[sudden pewter]

Same

[unkempt moss]

I dont usually look at account names. Only if I recognize the profile pic

[stoic garden]

as an identifier i suppose you could see me as the number 1 @sudden pewter jiggly cheeks fan

put it as user note

[sudden pewter]

Notes are for logging grudges and pertinent information

[stoic garden]

the pertinent information in question

[unkempt moss]

I dont think i have grudges with anyone. I usually just remember people by some identifiers. Boring, worship rubies, EDF, and worth talking to. But I always just remember it from the name so I should probably start looking at profile names.

Everyone defaults to worth talking to though. Even Waltuh the minigun destruction guy.

[sudden pewter]

Generally I agree. Everyone is innocent until proven witless.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah but witless doesnt mean they arent worth talking to. Its more like a value system. Because you can be multiple. Someone can be Worth and Worship Rubies, they just have an over value on ranked and its role in the ecosystem of them game.

But they might have interesting ideas about the ranked experience.

[sudden pewter]

If people are here to argue, they’re worth talking to. If people are here to state/complain, their minds are already made up and nothing you say will change how they think. These individuals are not worth talking to as neither party gains anything.

[unkempt moss]

I have some wiggle room there. Because what if their minds are made up, but its kind of an interesting idea. So you can pick their brain a little bit and get something useful from it. Depends when they die on the hill I suppose.

[sudden pewter]

I think “X is OP” No I don’t have any other reasons to support this other than I died to it.

If you point out what keeps it in check, counterplay, or things I could do better then I’ll make shit up

[half gulch]

i just complain about riot shield😭

[unkempt moss]

What about riot shield?

[half gulch]

im just a whiny bitch about it

[unkempt moss]

Fair. That's me about the light class

[last steeple]

SPEAR OP TOO MUCH RANGE, MAKE IT LIKE DAGGER

[sudden pewter]

The only issue I have with dagger is when a player with high latency is using it. Not even a dagger problem moreso a server problem. Doesn’t help Embark obfuscates ping intentionally

[eager wasp]

ehh i'd want a dagger user to have more tbh

if im fighting them ofc bc it makes so many stabs not count

its the ones with low that you gotta be afraid of

[random depot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/835959301498470452/1507019339646107698/image.png?ex=6a1060a1&is=6a0f0f21&hm=ea77955ce6b92c24e3328f03c20defa7f5ff962f0899bb7f5f8005455cf00e62&

H infuser is turbo unhealthy

[sudden pewter]

You should be using shotguns or melee weapons

And yes, H+ infuser is incredibly good.

[random depot]

I hate both gang

Unless KS counts?

[eager wasp]

ks is a shotgun

[random depot]

No its a shootgun

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-heavy-heavyweapons-team-fortress-gif-8650541834604934156

It only has one bullet

[unkempt moss]

The worst of both worlds gun. Hipfire innacuracy like a rifle, headshot multiplier of a shotgun

[random depot]

Can we please buff the Titan reload speed? Im fine with the range nerfs but ffs 5.8 seconds for a revolver is insanity when the range is what it is. So I cant outpoke anyone at 25+ AND I spend 4 decades reloading?

[sudden pewter]

You WILL stomach intentionally designing problem weapons then removing their niche because they were problematic

You WILL buy another 17 legendary ARN skins

[random depot]

Yes daddy embark 🤷‍♂️

[sudden pewter]

Make sure to buy all 25 TGM 2025 bundles and get hyped for TGM 2026!!!1!1!

[narrow hemlock]

comp

[random depot]

My goo Titan build is dead now, and I will never get it back

Between reloading rpg, googun and Titan... im playing The Reloaders

Can I at least get to shoot more than every 10 years please 🙏

[stoic garden]

casual

[random depot]

I refuse to become a winch heavy despite how much easier climbing is with it

[indigo nexus]

Goo gun is very good for climbing!

[joke]

[random depot]

Works in plat and diamond. Only rubies give me issue atm

Tho im considering going back to light cause im getting bored of Lewis gun

Dunno how id stack up, im plat4 at best on light maybe plat 3

[candid vessel]

In s11 they better nerf the shit out of sword m1

Theres literally nothing you can do if ur on controller

And even so its too easy. I suck at melee in this game and even i can dumpster people with the sword

Just had to fight 2 in a final round and omfg its even more infuriating than winch shak

[random depot]

Sword is just gamesense and barely any mechanical depth relative to most of the Finals

[candid vessel]

It requires zero game sense or mechanical skill

[random depot]

Its very gamesense intense

[indigo nexus]

This is just a nonsensical statement

[random depot]

Maybe not in pisslow lobbies

[indigo nexus]

The thing in the game that most fits that description is probably healbeam due to the aim lockon, but that still has some gamesense requirement for it to be used meaningfully

[candid vessel]

Then why is it the only melee weapon i dont get shit on with and i simultaneously shit on people with it if it requires any kind of skill at all in any way

[random depot]

Id say maybe recon nade?

[candid vessel]

If someone who knows nothing about the melee playstyle can pick it up and roll people its too good

[random depot]

Just slap it down and scare everyone free value

[indigo nexus]

I do not see what these assertions have to do with one another

[indigo nexus]

I think most people can do this with most equipment? It’s only when you have unintuitive or unclear mechanics that this is never the case.

You don’t have to know anything about a generic gun to know how to use it for sure, as it’s nothing novel or confusing

[random depot]

I dislike the mobility it offers with only a small tradeoff which is no ranged damage.

[indigo nexus]

I definitely wouldn’t call that “small” myself

[candid vessel]

Not to the extent of immediately picking it up and getting the most kills in a match every match with a kd of 3

[indigo nexus]

If this was a real phenomenon I think I’d see it happening at least vaguely often.

If most people could do that to the extent that casual matchmaking couldn’t make them less successful, I think you’d be seeing sword mains everywhere

[random depot]

In the hands of a competent player its not that big of a deal. Play off your H or M or L and create traps. Abuse mobility to make them waste resources trying to pin you down rinse repeat

[candid vessel]

I mean thats what happens whenever i use it, and every other melee weapon i average a kd of like 0.7-0.9

[random depot]

Just dont play in the open while running and you're chill bingo bango

[indigo nexus]

Congratulations I suppose, though I don’t really trust you to report this accurately

[random depot]

KD is kinda meaningless in the finals

Did you win OBJ? Did you contribute to that outcome?

[indigo nexus]

I have a friend who used to play a lot who is actually really good with sword and could kind of do that in most casual matches, to be fair. I couldn’t do so well myself.

[random depot]

I used to play genji

Same idea basically

[candid vessel]

I have a friend who got a 39 kill tournament win first time they used sword while still being new to the game in general

[indigo nexus]

In terms of surviving that’s fair, I’m more thinking that it would be a huge advantage if you could kill people on another rooftop by looking at them with the sword :p

[candid vessel]

Why not?

[random depot]

Yeah i just wouldnt fight that without them being occupied by someone else. And even then why am I up there?

[indigo nexus]

You haven’t measured, correct? People almost never do and so the values will be hugely skewed by ideology

[random depot]

Nah, autism

https://giphy.com/gifs/spectrum-absolute-autism-hudson-williams-q1tIjPq3YtG7VSOKAz

Just catalog everything always

[candid vessel]

I mean the last time everyone called bullshit on my feel of something i literally proved myself right

[candid vessel]

And this happened as a fact

[indigo nexus]

13 kills per round against presumably pretty weak players is achievable fairly broadly… however that does pretty much require that the opponents were something like an arrangement of spoons.

[random depot]

Sorry what

[candid vessel]

Ik that doesn’t mean im always gonna be right but it means that automatically assuming everything i say is bullshit is ridiculous

[indigo nexus]

I assume any number someone generates on the spot is untrustworthy without evidence otherwise, especially so if they have any motive to skew it. I think people have a tendency to do that by default.

[random depot]

Thats flawed logic but sure

[indigo nexus]

How so?

[candid vessel]

Why would i have a motive to skew it?

I want the game to be balanced and fair

[indigo nexus]

When people wish to make a point they tend to be motivated to provide information that supports that point. This often leads to biased representations of information, all the time really

And in this case it’s reliant on vague memories, so your brain can be quite flexible in its interpretation

[candid vessel]

Im aware of that and try to remain bias free as much as possible

[candid vessel]

My Memories being vague is a huge assumption

[indigo nexus]

3kd is unsustainable for players who aren’t generally super good at the game in my experience, so as a baseline there needs to be meaningful evidence for me to assume this could happen

[random depot]

Any conversation is impossible if youre always looking for minor maltruances that cant be determined beyond comprehensive data that to be expected to serve for a point they are trying to make is just loathsome.

The point people are trying to make when doing so is more important than random data points. Anyone can quote anything from anywhere. What remains the same is the intent, which you ignore with petty grievances like "maybe numbers wrong"

[sturdy glade]

which light weapon is best rn?

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. I’m not sure what the status of ‘photographic memories’ and such is in psychology. I do not expect that most people can remember large numbers of low-importance numbers for long periods of time.

[random depot]

Who the fuck cares, a discussion that turns into defending random shit that has nothing to do with the actual objective is a waste of energy.

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure what intent matters? They were making a claim based on a numerical value - if that value were different, so would be the relevance of that claim

[random depot]

Word soup

[indigo nexus]

Was that unclear?

[candid vessel]

Most people aren’t autists who got an A* in Gcse maths, gcse stats and A level maths

[random depot]

You're focusing on what you WANT to be correct rather than the actual discussion

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure what the point of that reply is at all

[indigo nexus]

I do not know what you mean by this

[random depot]

It forced a circular argument with no positive outcome

[sturdy glade]

anyone got a general rundown of what's good rn? currently my classes are:

light: dash, m11, vanish, h+ infuser, goo

medium: heal beam, akm, frag, jump pad, defib

heavy: charge, m60, dome, rpg, healing emitter