💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sudden pewter]

Actshually they should remove melee altogether because this is a first person shooter ☝️ 🤓

[slow linden]

Probably won't immediately but the parasite cannot do any more damage if you kill it

[stoic garden]

waiting for my heavy friend to finish

[compact tundra]

Oof

[slow linden]

Stungun but even more of a humiliation ritual basically

It is a parasite that is killing heavy,it cannot be redeemed it has taken too much

[stoic garden]

for some reason i ALWAYS play finals better when im sick

[slow linden]

I play better stoned

[compact tundra]

Na I think it's actually good. Shields block it now and it is a fine concept, slap a windup on there and some audible queues, and if really needed make it pull the enemy to be 3m away instead of in your face so sledge can breathe

[stoic garden]

i think it's WAY too janky to have a place in the finals ngl

[compact tundra]

I Think it's fine, works well and it is super flashy so fun to play and watch

[inner bay]

hello

[stoic garden]

the hitbox travels with you, it can grab people on return, sometimes grabs or fails depending on what cover u got (but barricade always works)

😔

[compact tundra]

I get that but that's honestly all fixable and more of a fault of the devs laziness when it comes to addressing the issues with winch

[stoic garden]

bro is in final round

[compact tundra]

Bro only clutches at the most inconvenient of times 😭

[stoic garden]

he finished 🙏🏿

[slow linden]

Me too

[slow linden]

Always vanish bomb your flame heavy

Cerb gaming @compact tundra

[slow linden]

You literally can though 😭⚰️

[sudden pewter]

Yeah

[slow linden]

Give us tf2 turret,team fortress or titan fall I don't really care

[empty vortex]

whats ttk tho

[hardy dust]

See if you were good enough you could basically do that

Same end result

[compact tundra]

Time to kill, basically how long it takes form full health to death to kill an opponent

[south plinth]

fucking double barrel fucking double barrel fucking double barrel

[empty vortex]

thanks

[slow linden]

I love double barrel

Get off my lawn

[compact tundra]

It's an annoying weapon for sure but not really broken or anything

[south plinth]

I just want to play one match

without it
PLEASE

Literally, I mean actually Literally, my past 8 GAMES
World tour, Power shift, Point break

[slow linden]

Play cerb and Duke it out with them

[south plinth]

yeah thats the thing, EVERY SINGLE GAME I have to swap my whole play stlye just to deal with them

I just want to play minigun for one round PLEASE

[slow linden]

Run motion sensors or tell your medium to run glitch trap

[south plinth]

I am stuck in purgatory where everygame is warped around the goddamn light with the double barrel if I do not put every fibre of my life into stopping that light

[slow linden]

Motion sensor counters all

Goo gun counters all

[south plinth]

motion sensor will do jack shit because as soon as I ping him he will already have triple dashed down my throat and 350 to 0'ed me

[slow linden]

You're putting them in the wrong places

[south plinth]

Fuck vanish bomb too

Why does light get one of their Specializations as a gadget

[slow linden]

Cloak is ass just open your eyes

[slow linden]

It's supposed to be a support tool but most lights are shit and use it for themselves

[muted condor]

Db is the only light weapon I play with

It’s kinda a bitch to play with and against

[slow linden]

I think I just posted an example of its proper use

[slow linden]

This

[compact tundra]

Miniguns kinda a situational gun thats pretty hard to use without a team built to support it. But try head to head, only 3 enemies so much lower chance of a DB

[sudden pewter]

Minigun fucks ass no lube in H2H because there’s fewer factors acting against it

[slow linden]

That too I was about to say his teammates are a big problem,but also running minigun without motion sensors is a humiliation ritual

[muted condor]

I do sometimes

[slow linden]

Sometimes is still only sometimes

[compact tundra]

Bro lockbolt minigun in H2H is the premier cheek spreader

[sudden pewter]

I have never ran Motion Sensors with Minigun. Don’t need it

I’ve developed a 7th sense.

[slow linden]

I love playing head to head but I don't really get a whole lot of kills in it and still manage a 3 kd in it sometimes because people don't want to 1v1 a minigun or flamethrower heavy,half the time people just leave lol

[slow linden]

Jesus Christ,also where do I check that I wanna check my Pyro play time

[compact tundra]

Head to head is my main gamemode, probably like 80% of the games I play are head to head. It has a bad leaving problem, it's a decently sweaty game mode with no leave penalty so mid game quits are like an oppressive problem

[slow linden]

No when I say people leave I mean half the time my opponents leave,and I'm stuck tending a cashout with no enemies and like 4 kills because the light trio decided that rushing a minigun Frontline was a good idea and leaving immediately when they get pasted on

[compact tundra]

That's what I meant, people dying once or twice and just quitting to reque is a massive problem in H2H

[slow linden]

They should make it a ranked mode 😈

[compact tundra]

That's not an uncommon take honestly. And tho I like what cashout offers as a super strategic ranked mode I think at the very least we need a H2H ranked or a rank system in H2H

[slow linden]

I agree honestly,head to head is actual skill,most of cashout is just fucking over teams that are better than you and grooming teams that are worse than you to qualify with you

[sudden pewter]

Records + Stats

[slow linden]

Aight,probably not much longer than like 40 hours my PC is shit

[slow linden]

No like spy?

[compact tundra]

Bro hates dagger in every game

[slow linden]

Fr

[sudden pewter]

I used to hate the SSquad with a passion and now I’ve only recently started playing them

[compact tundra]

This is a generational hate

[sudden pewter]

I’m actually very decent with spy (probably from years of Heavy) but I’m working on my config and haven’t been playing TF2 as often due to Finals

[slow linden]

I play everyone but scout

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been trying to play more Scout

Unfortunately, due to bad lobbies, I’m almost always forced to play either heavy or medic

[slow linden]

I main Pyro but all I've been doing lately is beat people to death with a sharpened Volcano fragment that I named "baby in deepfryer" on teufort 247

It's not even a strange lmao shit was like 13 cents

[slow linden]

I would play more mvm but I'm broke as fuck rn so I just play it on the silly 1000x public servers

[sudden pewter]

I fuck with Heavy Heavy

[slow linden]

I haven't yet gotten good drip for heavy but I main the hualong heater on heavy

[empty vortex]

i was stressing how bad i was in the game but then i realized i only played the game for 30 hours dude lmao

[sudden pewter]

I’ve seen lvl +100’s play like ass dude I wouldn’t sweat it

[slow linden]

Bros playing on GeForce now(that's how I play tf2 too because my PC is shit)

[empty vortex]

exactly dude no need to stress it out

[empty vortex]

lmaooo you get me bro like if you play on geforce now theres a slight delay in online competitive games its so visible in cs2 for example

[slow linden]

I use the free version so I have to time my games perfectly lmao

My PC was like 80 dollars at goodwill and I think I still overpaid

[empty vortex]

oh hell naw man dont do that to yourself
either use boosteroid in the future or get geforce now is it that expensive?

[empty vortex]

drop the specs

[slow linden]

I'm broke and am not going to pay a subscription for a free game

[slow linden]

Don't have them on hand,could probably send a picture of the guts

[empty vortex]

aight lmao

[empty vortex]

mm

[slow linden]

This was like 3 years ago when I was cleaning it after I bought it

Garfunkel ass alibaba ram

[slow linden]

It's poo but I could probably build it up

[analog pewter]

ill admit i have been guilty of this

h2h's major problem as a mode is that the lack of coins makes the actual team fights feel so much less consequential. no point watching statues and playing the macro, it's all just about winning the last fight over a cashout bc you'll have like 4 or 5 fights per cashout some of the time due to the fast respawns

so if they do ranked h2h they'd need to make it so players only get 2 coins or smth

[willow rivet]

bars

[willow rivet]

yo how much

[slow linden]

💯

[willow rivet]

for the Ram, I mean

[slow linden]

Scroll up

[slow linden]

No

[analog pewter]

ranked h2h with coins would be a PEAK mode
id play so much ranked

[slow linden]

If only

[analog pewter]

i hope they give the model the more pellets + lower damage per pellet treatment they gave the cerb :)

[slow linden]

Old model would be really funny but they'd honestly just have to make it basically a stat clone of the matter

[slow linden]

I meant model my brain is sludge

[kindred gorge]

Yes but it’s definitely meant to have more range so I think you’d have to tighten the spread a bit

Or heck that in and of itself could be the buff

Gotta strike a balance though or you turn into the heavy slug

[inner bramble]

Can we get a Lightbulb skin for the Flash Nade, please?

You tap it and the filament flickers as an inspect.

[unborn hill]

can i make a poll to make a sniper skin

or sum to get one

a blowdart with a comically large scope lol thatd be fun

[chilly granite]

gg gamers

[sullen bear]

I like this, put it in #👂┇game-feedback

[chilly granite]

the spread on the model is already disgustingly good

[indigo nexus]

Model’s range is very good for a shotgun, embark buffed its range since its big nerfs

[chilly granite]

model really doesn't need any buffs at all

certainly I don't feel like the model and cerb are cannibalising one another

cerb and model feel much more role-distinct than the DB and Matter, where both fall off hard beyond about 10m

if you want meidum buffed then it's mediums gadgets and specs that should be buffed, probably by moving defib to spec and healbeam to gadget and giving all of med's gadgets a gentle balance shakeup

considering medium is meant to be a support class, they have by far the worse support kit of any class lmao

imho cerb and model are both intersting and powerful weapons for their own niches

[cosmic oriole]

i was bored so i added some sfx to the v9s pistol
( i am in no means a professional sound editor, this is just for fun and is my first time ever doing this so there might be some weird sounds. Sounds from ShortStak's sound pack)

[lusty stratus]

Hello,
I've a question about the CL40, did they reduce the damages on structures or increased the structure health ?
Before 2 or 3 weeks ago, I could destroy roof with 3 CL40 bullets, but now it's at least 6.
I checked the patchnote but didn't see anything, does someone have informations about that ?

[chilly granite]

yeah, it was in patch notes, the roof hp was increased to match other structure elements

[lusty stratus]

Ok, thanks, I missed it, ❤️

[haughty frigate]

pancakes

[haughty frigate]

add a pancake to throw

and it one shots

[golden hemlock]

I also would love to see some sort of suppressor implementation for the Xp-54 and Akm; but this is just a little request

[haughty frigate]

add a pancake to the weapons and it should supress just fine

[sudden pewter]

Bro keep that dumbassery in #👂┇game-feedback or #💥┇spawn-point

[stoic garden]

lol

[ember coral]

question- when are they gonna fix thermal vision

its been in rework for ages

[radiant thicket]

FCK CL 40 PLAYERS

[sterile meteor]

Fr I loved it so much

[ember coral]

hell yes, and sword users, and flamethrower users

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[coral mica]

hello

[haughty frigate]

why so much hate for swords...

[alpine sphinx]

People hating on sword are actually hating on dash + sword, but not realizing that dash is the bigger problem

Or rather, it enables sword being problematic in the first place

[clear slate]

Hey Embark, the smoke underwent some drastic changes since season 5 when I used to use it all the time. I think the new smoke is way less busted and hard to exploit, though it is a bit dull. If you could, I would love for smoke to have another charge like it did back then. It seems a little iffy without using both charges at once, so maybe make the smoke stronger or the recharge timer shorter, either way a buff for smoke would be greatly appreciated at least by me

[sudden pewter]

I’ve AI generated a video of you giving birth to a horse.

[empty vortex]

no idea dude

[kindred gorge]

W take but embark never reads in this server lol

[indigo nexus]

If they did read this channel then a small number of us would have way too much influence on the game, haha

But, I wouldn’t complain…

[charred sail]

create a bazooka

[cunning slate]

unlikelty

[sudden pewter]

Heh pushes up spectacles
You replied exactly as I thought you would.

[indigo nexus]

gah! I feel called out… how do I even respond to this?

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-getting-faded-nobody-care-nobody-cares-quotes-haircut-gif-23234781

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-drg-dwarf-gif-3368181158033393014

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856827759179071488/1334268093089845360/attachment-6-1.gif

waiting for embark to revert rpg buff btw

[indigo nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/epstein-epstein-files-epstein-island-jeffrey-epstein-trump-epstein-gif-147873707617354730

[stoic garden]

rpg didnt have a 100% pick rate so we buffed it

[sudden pewter]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/828727790902706228/955492869672677547/45B7D225-FFC6-4EDE-A1EA-99209113F1B7.gif

[indigo nexus]

The RPG buff I think is the most confused I’ve been by a balance change

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1149024024131801138/1473444121401229343/attachment.gif

[sudden pewter]

I’m praying that’s the right gif because discord refuses to load them in a timely manner

[stoic garden]

it's a naked guy gif, you will be banned soon inshallah

[sudden pewter]

The worst part is you could be telling the truth and I wouldn’t be able to tell

[indigo nexus]

So you have such gifs in your favourites

[stoic garden]

it's ok, we've all accidentally posted gay black naked oily men in our lives

[sudden pewter]

If this is how I go out I’ll finally see GooKing in Valhalla

[sudden pewter]

I have exactly 2 and both are for very niche scenarios I must be prepared for

I’ll never be able to use the “Google Dockey” gif because GooKing left and took his manifesto with him

https://tenor.com/view/google-dockey-chicken-jockey-minecraft-movie-google-doc-google-docs-gif-3049002159977528301

[clear slate]

I assume they do because if I don't I'll lose focus on my part as a consumer of this game and make it more about complaining. I like to stay on the hopeful side so Embark will become a better company through my contributions

[cunning slate]

https://tenor.com/view/pootis-engage-pootis-engage-what-confused-gif-25339394

what did I miss?

[haughty frigate]

you are very correct. sword is kinda nothing without dash. but w it, you can pull this kind of things... so i guess i see the problem but i'm not gonna say anything against dash because i don't want to loose those kind of stats haha

i'm also a very good player w good game sense so it also adds up

[slow linden]

It would be a good thing

[stoic garden]

bow fella singlehandedly makes me not want that to be the case

[muted condor]

They should listen to me and my factually correct takes

[compact tundra]

Be based, play grapple sword

[slow linden]

Be even more based play grapple db

[slow linden]

Rest in peace my granny she got hit by a bazooka

[cunning slate]

not funny

[slow linden]

It's true

I was there

[cunning slate]

How

[slow linden]

I was the ceiling fan

[cunning slate]

Then were was te floor fan?

[slow linden]

Then I lost the game of prop hunt

[true ocean]

lol

[rapid reef]

@haughty frigatei got muted for spamming earlier....

im still tight

[alpine sphinx]

Grapple dagger is my go to light build, and shit can be so incredibly fun

[plush pine]

goo gun thoughts?

[broken mulch]

sword rn is problematic cause buffing m1s made it better against newer players and nerfing m2 made it much much worse against better players

lunge rn is like a bullet with insane travel time, low range(compared to a bullet), and also puts u in an awful position if u miss cause u go sailing past them and cant turn around without a gadget swap

i still love playing sword but m11 getting more popular has been rough since its ttk is wayyyy faster than sword, with slighly better range

its almost always a bad idea to chase another dash light as a sword but its especially bad against an m11

[hasty cipher]

what’s the best loud out for heavy

[stoic garden]

whatever you find most fun

[feral ermine]

[chilly granite]

my first rbeach charge kill hahahah

forgive bad aim I've been awake 20 hours

I mean, I've been awake for 20 hours? But I also only got 3h of sleep when I had slept and then I was awake a long time before that

I've kinda lost track of time but I did hit a new pb rank

And then my last couple games I was really too tired to play game and lost a lil bit hahhaha

[undone fern]

n1😂

[indigo nexus]

I feel like I’ve basically never seen breach charge do its full damage before

[chilly granite]

Radius is 2.5m with no minimum radius, so even dropping it at my own feet doesn't do full damage lol

But that was probably pretty damn close

[indigo nexus]

huh, didn't know there was no minimum

[chilly granite]

I didn't test it super thoroughly but the damage seems to fall off immediately

Also holy shit before patch 3 it was 200 player damage

The patch notes mention a minimum radius, but not what it is, and like I said, my very gentle testing seemed to have basically no minimum radius

Maybe it's like .3m?

[fleet imp]

Rest in peace 67

[mild scarab]

hey

[slow linden]

Give heavy an m202 flash,primary or gadget I don't really care

[compact tundra]

I've been learning dash dagger and it's a ton of fun to me since it's so difficult on roller. I've thought about grapple dagger but every time i think about how it'd play it seems just like a trade machine. Like you'll almost always get the backstab unless they beam your head or you fumble, but your kinda cooked after that

[alpine sphinx]

Well if a player knows what to anticipate you won't really get the backstab often because they can just trace you and keep looking at you. It's more of the advantage against people that aren't aware of the tech that you can kill, but it also massively helps against people on high ground to just pull yourself into the sky and one shot some unaware sod from the skies. It also massively helps to have the nullifier or flashbang so you can make up for a lack of escape utility after using grapple offensively

[alpine sphinx]

M11 has infinitely better range than sword because on an exposed moving target you can easily still do 100 damage even on range and force them into cover or to heal, and take advantage of that. M11 having "bad range" is only if you compare it to weapons like the fcar, akm and stuff like repeater etc. It has such an insane DPS and fire rate as well as reload speed that you just get accuracy by volume, and any chip damage counts.
The sword lunge is fine in my opinion but it needs to be restricted in a way that you can't dash AND lunge. Dash severely messes with the melee hit registration and causes you to regularly hit people that are several meters outside your range. Lunge without dash already gives sword users amazing capabilities to gap close as well as kite slower targets (sword will basically win any 1v1 against other melee weapons, except maybe spear, reliably, if you don't count the element of surprise).

[alpine sphinx]

Goated, best heavy spec imo but it needs more practice than stuff like winch or charge since there's a lot of things you can do that will just hinder yourself

[strange beacon]

pyro grenade

[sleek portal]

arn

[compact tundra]

Based breach kill.

Also since you have left I have now become a dagger player, dash dagger is so genuinely fun bro, just pop people like fucking balloons

[faint steppe]

People definitely underestimate how strong the M11 is at range if you learn to control the recoil. The only downside is that it's a weapon designed for brawls which ultimately makes it less effective against very coordinated teams.

But if you can isolate your 1v1s you can realistically win against every class

[alpine sphinx]

even in teamfights the m11 is incredibly strong, just stick to a teammate and shoot at whatever they shoot and you can easily perform at very high levels. You also get access to H+ insane burst heals which boost light teamplay synergy extremely much

[faint steppe]

Of course. It's overall one of the strongest guns in the game. All I'm saying is that its effectiveness and place in the meta has historically been not that high because other guns performed similar enough (or better) while offering more flexibility.

It's undeniably a top tier pick for every skill level. And even when we had outliers like the V9s, LH1, 93r it was a competitive choice.

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus 1m min radius it seems

not sure why it only seems to do 79 self damage?

[chilly granite]

lmao dagger is some degen shit hahahah

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus this is 3m wide btw, not sure if it's super useful to you but nice to have a benchmark

[chilly granite]

better yet, these numbers are accurate

[winged yacht]

whats medium meta

[analog pewter]

What would yall think about a medium spec that is a deployable which lets them and their teammates each swap one thing in their loadout from reserve on the spot

I feel like this could open up some cool gambits, like starting with movement but then swapping your zip out once you're at the obj for mines or something

[winged yacht]

ya would be really cool

[analog pewter]

@sudden pewter tear me to shreds over this 1

It could be cool if the deployable is also large enough to use as cover. That's one thing I liked about lifeline's supply drop in apex, it was multi functional

Could be strong in ranked where there is no loadout swapping mid round

[winged yacht]

what is medium meta rn?

[viscid carbon]

FAMAS isn't meta?

[sudden pewter]

No, but that doesn't mean it isn't viable

[indigo nexus]

Hm, I was wondering when that was going to flip over

[edgy estuary]

Revolver feels great to use

[south wolf]

is gas viable? like atleast some one would carry something pyro-.

[viscid carbon]

I need a Nama Tama goo nade 😭

[viscid carbon]

I started playing in S7 and left at basically the very beginning of S8, came back a couple of weeks ago mid-S9

Is there a Nama Tama skin that gets awarded every Easter or are they all event gated

[toxic oak]

I'm pretty much sure that the green hat one comes every winter

[viscid carbon]

Guess I started playing too late

At the tail end of December iirc

[sacred scroll]

Why does the bfr feel easier to use than ks23?

[golden obsidian]

KS23 was coded to be somewhat inaccurate, + you know, the ranged hitscan-to-projectile thing

[empty vortex]

yo guys

does any bullets have time to travel? or all of them just travel instantly to the target?

[long nymph]

Sniper has travel. So does KS after a certain distance. Throwing knives obviously have travel time too, as well as grenade launchers

[empty vortex]

thanks good to know and also why is the skeleton hugging a GYAT

[long nymph]

Why wouldn't he?

[empty vortex]

yo thats relatable bro i wish i hugged gyats

[plush sandal]

just found out that DUAL BLADES DEFLECT THE FUCKING SPEAR
EMBARK????
HALF OF THE SPEARS GIMMICK IS THAT IT BYPASSES SHIELDS
im tired of the spear injustice

[muted condor]

Spear’s gimmick is not that it bypasses shields

Dual blades can technically block all melee attacks but it’s inconsistent and not worth attempting

[indigo nexus]

Shields don’t block any melees (except riot shield, which can block all melees)

Dual blades reduces the damage on all melees

[muted condor]

Mfs just be saying anything now
Not that i disagree with spear injustice being a thing but that reasoning is false

[kindred gorge]

I’d say yes, cause it’s more compatible with mine builds since it won’t blow them up, or if you are playing a light you can force someone to use their pyro grenade in a bad spot and save yourself a lot of burn damage

And you can hit different angles since it’s not contact activated

[south wolf]

smart stuff

[sleek portal]

hello

[whole raptor]

yo

[chilly granite]

Tbh with the prevalence of gas and fire barrels it feels hard to justify a slot on a gas grenade

Walking around with a gas barrel is extremely good though

Honestly I'd like if they adjust the random barrels to favour glitch over all else

Glitch barrel is probably the least effective on its own, and also the most useful if uses well

Random barrel spawns can fix too many problems tbh, i think players should be more expected to rely on their iit

Red barrels and glitches being the most common is probably the most fun as I feel like they're the least consistently powerful

Most likely to be a double edgded sword

[sand monolith]

Cause it is

Hitscan and more range and can headshot

Ks just has better utility

[regal obsidian]

dual blades deflects melee hits for 75% damage reduction yes

[winged yacht]

best scope for fcarf?

[hardy dust]

Yes

[hardy dust]

Personal preference, imo red dot is best

[alpine sphinx]

controversial opinion: accuracy while airborne should be significantly decreased

[obtuse coyote]

Is it true that you get a sticker if you report a bug? I have a critical bug on a map

[chilly granite]

Especially light weapons lol

[compact tundra]

That'd buff poke, now camping high value areas and corner peaking is way better than hit and run or mobile fighting

[chilly granite]

I don't think even a huge decrease is needed tbh, but for so many weapons it's barely affected

It would be an instant buff to vortex and cube

I mean, I don't think it buffing poke is a problem? Poke needs nerfs regardless

[alpine sphinx]

hit and run is not airborne, and you shouldnt be able to lazer someone while you are falling at 80kmh

[chilly granite]

Like airborne accuracy is perfect with arn, lights long range poke assault rifle

That's unreasonable, and it makes arn poke stronger since it's also more competent in push and gap close

[compact tundra]

It makes sitting still be rewarded more than movement. It rewards low movement fights and camping advantageous positions even more, while nerfing people who try to fight while mobile or try to do high octane styles of fighting

[compact tundra]

Dash is airborne usually, jumping is airborne, dropping floors is airborne. Anything that doesn't have your feet touch the ground is airborne

[chilly granite]

A small nerf would still allow cqb movement but make long range jumping beams non viable

[compact tundra]

That's fair ig

[muted condor]

Still makes the BFR and pike even better and every other option slightly worse

[chilly granite]

Dash is always airborne unless you dash into the ground

[muted condor]

Why punish vertical movement when sitting 5 miles away is already the meta

[chilly granite]

I found out recently that the XP doesn't have perfect accuracy when airbourne ads, but arn does, which is probably why I feel like dash XP is so bad compared to dash arn

Part of the meta is following up initial poke with jump pad push

If you can't shoot effectively while doing so, poke is nerfed because you can't capitalize on the poke damage

[muted condor]

Still nerfs none poke more

[alpine sphinx]

it nerfs those too lol, that this game has a problem with longe range poke is a seperate issue, and it needs to be adressed too ofc

[compact tundra]

But shooting white airborne isn't usually done unless you're a light looking to get some entrance damage

[chilly granite]

Theres an air accuracy that makes jump pad from 40m away trash but fighting within 15m perfectly fine

[indigo nexus]

But with very different effects on different weapons

[muted condor]

Jump pad users and light are really the only times that would come into play any meaningful amount

[compact tundra]

But what you want would reward sitting still while dis-encouraging fighting while using heavy movment

[alpine sphinx]

bro has never heard about mediums

[muted condor]

That just seems like just another thing to balance that does nothing but make playing already none meta weapons more annoying

[compact tundra]

Again how often are they primarily fighting mid air

[chilly granite]

It's not sitting still? Movement is alwaysimpactful and could be balanced totally fine in cqb

Like can we all agree that there's an accuracy level that doesn't affect cqb but does affect mid-long range

[indigo nexus]

CL-40 users

[chilly granite]

This is already in the game, that's why lh1 and XP are bad with dash

Appoh always talks about how XP is good but he plays invis light not dash light

[alpine sphinx]

jump pad? Zipline?

[compact tundra]

Ah yes, one of mediums worst weapons, a worthy nerf

[chilly granite]

Lh1 is primarily used in long range where you don't rely on dash, so less problematic than xp54

[muted condor]

Shouldn’t even be on those

[alpine sphinx]

worst??? lmaooo

cl40 dominates in low to mid elo, and only really becomes weaker in higher elo, but is still very strong against any defense setup

[muted condor]

It’s probably bottom three medium weapons

[alpine sphinx]

Massive disagree

[muted condor]

The only weapons I’d say it’s better than are both melee options

Actually the pike is kinda shit from what I heard now but I haven’t used it in ages

[compact tundra]

? It's ass, it is a slot machine that decides at will what damage it'll do and, it only has good kill times on lights, and even then an M11 or double barrel can beat it relatively easily. It's not a good weapon and is mostly ran for fun or light stomping

[alpine sphinx]

cl40 can break walls easily, can instantly trigger any mines/barrels, can even move enemy statues to prevent reviving, can deal damage around corners and damage to multiple enemies

[alpine sphinx]

youre not supposed to 1v1with it, its a support weapon

[faint steppe]

Pike is bad. It's only decent if you wanna play shooting gallery on long range Powershift maps

[muted condor]

“Easily break walls”
One of the slowest forms of destruction

[compact tundra]

You're not supposed to fight with the weapon, your supposed to wait for the 3 dumbass lvl15 lights to group up for a triple killm it's so good bro I swear

[muted condor]

Just find a red can in half the time and don’t get caught with no ammo

If literally only good for killing bad light players and sucks at fighting heavy which is the best class atm

If you can aim at all every other weapon fills every role it could possibly have better

[alpine sphinx]

not what i said, also, skill issue

[muted condor]

The revolver is way better at killing both heavy and lights and doesn’t need height advantage at all times

[whole raptor]

More gas nade skins

[compact tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-compelling-didnt-ask-dont-gif-24737803

[muted condor]

Someone saying the cl40 is good accusing someone else of a skill issue? Iv seen it all now

[alpine sphinx]

its not good in very high elo, yes, but that doesnt mean its a bad weapon

[regal obsidian]

that is kind of exactly what that means actually

[alpine sphinx]

kind of actually not kind of actually

[compact tundra]

I mean it's usable, no weapon is complete trash, but it's not good really in any elo besides low, and there the spear is actually a viable weapon so....

[regal obsidian]

everything works outside of high elo

[alpine sphinx]

yes, but the CL40 dominates low to mid elo

[regal obsidian]

not really no

[compact tundra]

That I disagree with, cl40 doesn't dominate, it's just usable

Viable some might say

[muted condor]

Very high elo: gold 2

[alpine sphinx]

its definitely at the very least very viable in gold lol

[muted condor]

Fuck no 😂

[alpine sphinx]

it absolutely is

[muted condor]

Past gold three you’re fighting at least two teams of MHH and it’s effectively useless

All three autos, both shotguns, the Famas, revolver, and repeater all out perform in 99% of situations

[alpine sphinx]

99% is a massive exaggeration, also you are still talking about gold, gold players dont have diamond aim

[muted condor]

They don’t need it

The one and only situation it’s good against a MHH or MMH is if they are doing a pure mine spam

[regal obsidian]

i am not that good at the game and i once climbed out of gold with invis dagger i am pretty sure everything works there

[muted condor]

Something working and being good are different

This guy is saying the cl40 is meta in anything under ruby basically

[alpine sphinx]

me when i have to read someone elses argument and not just make shit up:

[alpine sphinx]

i said low to mid. in what world is diamond mid

[muted condor]

You claimed it dominates below hight elo

It 100% does not and is barely usable in mid elo

[dry widget]

How do I no recoil FCAR?

[compact tundra]

Recoil canceling, basically lightly strafe one way while pulling your curser lightly in the opposite direction, then switch to do the other direction so you don't end up circling them. Basically as long as your moving left, and pulling your cursor right, or vice versa, then the recoil is significantly reduced.

[somber python]

Spear Tips/Combos
Terms:
Light hit: Left click
Heavy attack(SPIN): Right click
Quick melee: V (or preferred Key)
C&S (Charge and slam)
quick
Combos on Lights:
1 light hit and RPG
1 C&S hit, cancel, 1 Light hit or RPG
2 Light hits and Quick melee or winch claw
1 Heavy attack
3 Light hits
Combos on Mediums:
1 light 1 heavy attack
3 light hits and Quick melee
2 light hits and RPG
(if to far) 4 Light hits
1 heavy attack DO NOT HEAVY ATTACK UNLESS ALREADY DAMGED
Combos on Heavy:
5 Light hits
2 Light hits 1 Heavy attack
NOTES
Note: Spear with light hits DPs flamethrower so if a flame thrower if on full health
Note: Spear can out DPS Hammer if you do 2 lights hits and 1 Heavy Attack (maybe a bit iffy tbh)
Note: light is your worst match up try to get the jump on them when they are already low or do not have movement
Note: Slide can get you picks or damage that you might not normally get. Care not to over do it or you will be caught in the open to take damage
Note: Heavy Attacks are best around conners and windows where peeps may peek and you do not exposed yourself

[slow linden]

I opened this discord and for a brief moment you were a white role because roles weren't loaded yet lmao

[indigo nexus]

Lumping all three spear spins into one seems a bit counterproductive

Should 100% mention that lock bolt also makes lights a 2-hit

It’s important to note how much the delay until the third spin matters, and also note that you can jump while doing it to make it harder for people to just headshot beam you, as long as you don’t jump the hitbox over their heads at the wrong time

And how the spin attack will stop dealing damage after hitting 20 entities (walls, players, goo blobs, barricade sections)

[somber python]

I actually didn't know that damn. when I when I was writing it too I kind of ignored the fact that it does 3 hit on a Spin (except for the medium part) but I think it's important to add, as well as jumping while spinning. I thought mostly be best to clump the spin into one due to how it effects the player, you cant really cancel out of it like Charge and Slam.

I'll definitely edit what I have cause you pointed out stuff that should really be there. Thanks!

[spring spear]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182329984723976283/1478225827446526092/image.png?ex=69a7a095&is=69a64f15&hm=174da50a4aa288c1ec78f6696cd425681bd62e1c720b32e82b8c25f7bac1fcbc&

[slow linden]

Goo gun hate is so forced

[spring spear]

not really goolocking is annoying as fuck and shouldnt even be a thing

and i say that as someone with a lvl11 goo gun who has been exclusively using it in place of any other spec since at least s5

[regal obsidian]

goo gun is THE most annoying thing in the game imo; thank god it isn't popular

[slow linden]

I find winch more annoying as a goo gun main and goo gun is its hard counter in a 1v1

[regal obsidian]

winch is annoying but at least the suffering ends quickly

goo gun will keep you in hell for 20 seconds

[slow linden]

Don't knock it till you've tried it,play goo flame,get out there,scorch a couple lights,it's what we do

[random depot]

I 100% agree, the only players cl40 is good against is complete newbies

[random depot]

Half ethical

Flamethrower is such mind numbing gameplay

Unless they add a leap and slam!

https://tenor.com/view/winston-winton-overwatch-call-of-duty-calling-gif-8926834443195456241

[slow linden]

Goo gun is what saves it

Goo lock,fire tickle,Goo lock again,repeat

Toss a mine into the mix

[random depot]

So torture them

All youre missing is bamboo to shove in their nails

https://tenor.com/view/goo-gun-the-finals-goo-gif-11263600545026771416

[slow linden]

Can it really be called torture when it's so fun to do? All they have to do is toss a glitch mine or nade or charge and slam out of it

All pretty commonly used things btw

[random depot]

Shh dont tell them counterplay exists

[slow linden]

If I don't they'll cry until it's nerfed

Then nobody gets to have fun

[random depot]

True

[plush sandal]

i love goo ning on my enemies and shoving my rod in their direction
im a spear main

[random depot]

you spelt new gadgets and spec's wrong

holy NPC opinion

Go play Call of Duty then

[livid cradle]

Gun play is fine, but the thermal vision has been under maintanance since I syarted playing, embark need to focus on that

Idk what it does but I’m tryin go to Make a point

[viscid carbon]

New light and medium specs pls, and a new gadget for every class

And a winch rework so it's based more around cashout manipulation rather than press Q to win any 1v1

i.e. when you pull the cashout you can adjust where you throw it by just moving your mouse and the winch will bend and throw it in that direction

You can also throw players around, but the stun is removed

"Weight" of the class dictates how easy they are to manipulate that way

You still pull the winch so the time window for manipulation is quite small, I guess that would keep it balanced

And ofc you have to remember that you no longer have stun, so if you just pull them towards you without throwing them you could put yourself at a disadvantage against a healthy target

[random depot]

plenty of guns, what more you need?

thats simply a lie

every possible weapon niche exists

anything else being added could be added as a cosmetic with a diff sound effect

[indigo nexus]

How so? There’s not a lot of feasible weapon kinds we don’t have.

[random depot]

what niche would either of those fill?

why would we need a burst smg?

how does it add to the game? What role would have it?

[spring spear]

What role would they fill though? Adding weapons for the sake of adding them is just gonna bloat the game

I guess you could give heavy a burst smg since they dont have a burst fire gun but I feel like itd just overlap with the automatics they already have

What would an auto pistol for light do that his current automatics dont already do

Medium already has an smg and a burst and both have defined roles so he really doesnt need another weapon like that

I feel like an auto pistol for light genuinely would just be another m11 theres no reason to add one

Not really bloating a game like that is how you get massive filesizes aswell as more difficulties to balance nothing fun about either of those

He also doesnt need it though theres already weapons that can fulfill its role so it doesnt matter

[viscid carbon]

More gadgets or specializations would be nice, as well as a winch rework and small demat buff

Can't really think of any weapons that would have unique roles

[random depot]

for you and 1% of the playerbase

[cerulean furnace]

I still yearn for a Data Reshaper buff 😔

It even still has the bug of sometimes exploding whatever it just reshaped or not reshaping at all

[spring spear]

It quite literally is their problem it is their job to optimize their game lol

2gb per gun is fucking massive wtf

2gb for a model and textures? that SCREAMS unoptimized

not even big models at that

That isnt what bloating means bloating is just adding unnecessary stuff

Again no reason to add weapons that fulfill a role several other weapons on a build already fulfill it just makes the game bigger flr no reason aswell as make it harder to balance properly

[random depot]

Hate is a white name AND no braincells

oh you really are dumb

[spring spear]

Yeah because the word already implies the stuff being added is unnecessary the extra filesize is just a cherry on top

[random depot]

IRONY

[spring spear]

dont play coy people that are new arent gonna know about rolecism its actually a very normal reaction all things considered

[random depot]

I understood straight away

[spring spear]

Yes but again what is the actual purpose for the extra filesize, youre adding stuff the game already has

[random depot]

I literally had a misunderstanding my first time back in 2 years on this server because I called the CB01 the Cerberus

[spring spear]

But there are automatics that fill the role an automatic pistol would fill and bursts that fill the role a burst smg would fill

You are confusing role with weapon type

[random depot]

either you are ragebaiting on an alt

or you are truly the epitome of ignorant neanderthal syndrome

[spring spear]

Also i meant new to the discord rolecism is just looking down on roles that dont have as many messages in the server

[random depot]

oh it was a joke on my end in reference to C4tter

[spring spear]

White role means you have less than 35 messages

[random depot]

ragebait surely

I pray you are just messing with us

https://tenor.com/view/jon-tron-confuse-smile-gif-15832483

go read a book, non fiction would be good for that husk of a brain you have

tiktok doesnt count

[spring spear]

Automatics role is usually to sustain fight rather than say poke like single fire long range weapons or dive like short range high damage weapons, theres several weapons on all the builds fulfilling the sustain playstyle an automatic pistol would provide

[random depot]

anime pfp, room temp iq takes and 0 basic frontal lobe function or god tier rage bait

irrelevant, point stands

[spring spear]

youd be effectively adding another automatic rifle in terms of how it would function in game

[random depot]

im too autistic, is he ragebaiting?

I honest to god cant tell

[spring spear]

But what role does it fill that isnt already filled

[spring spear]

I think he is but plausible deniability

[random depot]

I hope youre right

[spring spear]

And what role would an automatic pistol fill in terms of enabling a playstyle?

[random depot]

yeah 100% ragebait

[spring spear]

Yeah its bait grinding for role xp id imagine

[random depot]

weak ragebait

[spring spear]

No

[random depot]

https://tenor.com/view/toad-gif-26236366

so weak

[spring spear]

At this point dude its best to just drop the bait act

Like genuinely if you just want server xp i am sure someone would be fine with having a talk with you about anything for the purpose of it doesnt even need to be finals related

[random depot]

he doesnt have the capacity

[spring spear]

Yeah you caught me

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kung-fu-meme-martial-arts-ai-gif-12077383892073399910

[random depot]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-bird-alarm-clock-wake-up-gif-11858070275565777857

https://giphy.com/gifs/cat-funny-AzX1UZyxwcT2E

[spring spear]

You can just play m11, xp or p90 they play the same way an auto pistol would anyway

Or m60

M11 is great

its considered a top tier pick for a reason

[random depot]

whats the matter?

https://giphy.com/gifs/loop-sun-dark-VgBk8EZQILIaPIJymY

No I think youre talking about dark matter, its an invisible, hypothetical form of matter that does not emit, reflect, or absorb light, making it undetectable by electromagnetic radiation. It accounts for roughly 27% of the universe's mass-energy content and 85% of total matter, acting as a gravitational "glue" that holds galaxies together.

[spring spear]

Eh depends I do prefer the matter but ttk being so good with fast reloads and a relatively high mag size means its a consistent cleanup tool whereas matter is a shorter range poking tool

[random depot]

I prefer earth thank you

Lights cant use dark matter, its too heavy

[spring spear]

M11 with an actually coordinated team is pretty nuts since you can play your support role and then go in for the cleanup I dont think its fair to claim matter is better when it doesnt even do the same thing lol

Matter is better if you are solo dueling sure but most lights dont play like that because infuser value is important

[random depot]

they can only use Light matter, its generally classified as a form of energy (electromagnetic radiation) rather than matter, as it has no mass and does not occupy space.

sounds like this guys is a bit Light on his Silver knowledge

[spring spear]

That depends but I can tell you wether you are running 2 lights or 1l 1m youre still gonna be needing a heavy and with one you need to make sure you get value out of gateway and infuser which is why m11 is consistently used more since it has better range and cleanup potential and Heavy is usually where most of the damage comes from at the start of a fight

Again matter is only better if you are taking on people directly as a light but most lights arent taking direct fights but rather fights with people out of position or already injured

Thats a great way to guarantee you lose at any elo higher than silver lol

[random depot]

Dr. Xeno, are you attempting to bribe this chimpanzee with the concept of thought?

[spring spear]

And youre running 3 lights?

[cerulean furnace]

Any weapon and macro strategy good when u practice

[random depot]

aka fall over the second you face a single team with a braincell

[spring spear]

Somehow I doubt you are getting diamond players if youre saying its easy to get elo with a triple light comp but regardless all it takes is a heavy that can aim to break that comp down

Specially with lewis being back in the meta

[random depot]

like you might as well have the double barrel

matter is ass

unless you have evidence or credentials, imma just stop interacting with your 2 iq ahh

its ok at best, outclassed by v9s, xp54, m11, lh1

[spring spear]

Yeah but unless youre third partying the heavy can just outduel 1/3 of the lights and still get some damage on a second one at which point youre at a disadvantage vs the other 2 players that will still be up

[random depot]

and ofc ARN

[spring spear]

And with p90 being in the meta the medium can still get good damage before going down

[random depot]

https://giphy.com/gifs/edition-python-monty-tZ6zAdNZbWOhq

just bad take after bad take after bad take

[spring spear]

Im also fairly sure m11 can outduel matter assuming both players know how to use dash

thats a heavy gadget

[indigo nexus]

It’s interesting to me that XP is almost identical now to how it was when it was considered overpowered, but opinions you see expressed are so different

[random depot]

the reload does kill it a bit, and the ARN replaced its niche

[spring spear]

emitter on a 3l comp is a waste of a slot you all regen fast enough for it to not get sny proper use not to mention the small hp pool

[random depot]

youre objectively a lab grown homunculis created for entertainment

I agree you arent real

[indigo nexus]

Those were true at that point too (to be clear I’m talking about when it last had 17 damage, not its state in like S2)

[spring spear]

in fact if you are all running dash matter then infuser is probably one of the worst gadgets you can pick since youre all already gonna be getting in and out of cover already and regen faster than m or h meaning you can afford to legit just wait to regen before going in for more damage

[random depot]

I mean I think xp is stronger than people say, but still weaker than some other options

[random depot]

infinite pressure glitch

[spring spear]

Why cloak though, precisely the thing that makes matter work is the fact that you can weave in and out so easily with dash meaning you can dish out fast damage without taking too much back

With cloak you cant even reliably get close enough

[random depot]

oh you played Overwatch? What do you think of the power level of support?

[random depot]

this determines if youre just a bot or not

[spring spear]

Yes but we are talking about viability here so fun doesnt matter

[random depot]

https://giphy.com/gifs/page-shaft-crimson-dOl2LFw0RbTMc

[spring spear]

also wait i just realized you say plat and diamond but is that in world tour or ranked

[random depot]

lemme play Call of duty 76 in a hero shooter to ONLY duel

screenshot

[spring spear]

Can I have your embark name then so I can verify?

[random depot]

Ashe, cass, tracer, reaper, Mauga, Ana, Bap

[spring spear]

What about your steam/psn/xbox name?

[random depot]

soldier is literally the LOWEST amount of stimulation you can get as a hitscan

[spring spear]

you dont need to have them on your phone but theres no way you dont remember what youre called in whatever platform you play this game on

[random depot]

no

[spring spear]

in fact being on the phone might help, there are PSN Xbox and Steam apps for your phone

[random depot]

the hero that is most tracking heavy, is tracer

[spring spear]

and i dont know about psn but xbox and steam's apps are pretty necessary to use nowadays

[random depot]

also SOJOURN EXISTS

[spring spear]

well why not, are you on PS4/5?

[random depot]

you arent plat even

youre like a gold ow player, so silver on The Finals

cope

[spring spear]

then youve got to have the steam app, you literally cant do so much without it unless youre playing through the xbox launcher which again gives you so much more if you install the app on your phone

[random depot]

hours =/= being good

people with 3000 hours on ow are dog water like you

[spring spear]

yeah so why dont you have the xbox app on your phone youre incentivized to use it so much

[indigo nexus]

But there’s a definite correlation which becomes very pronounced at lower hour counts

[random depot]

more than enough to know soldier is awful, and theres 20 heroes with more aim requirements than him

[random depot]

correlation does not mean causation

[spring spear]

it outright gives you free discounts or even games if youre patient enough with it and grind those microsoft points daily

[random depot]

its amazing how theres an excuse for everything

this guy is cosplaying being good at games

[spring spear]

i mean again you could get them even cheaper or outright for free if you just grind the microsoft points daily ehich is extremely easy to do and doesnt even consume much time so

[random depot]

in my world mediocre means average, not below average but sure

[spring spear]

if youre already using the xbox launcher anyway you may aswell take advantage of its features

[random depot]

its hours + intelligence + interest = being good at something

[spring spear]

linux iso what?

are you on ubuntu

But like what do you mean you get games through Linux ISO

[random depot]

it is a thing, its piracy basically most of the time

[spring spear]

Oh I see

[random depot]

surprised he knows something like that tbh

[spring spear]

well if you do buy cdkeys off 3rd party sites most of them are for steam so I do need to ask why you'd play the finals through the xbox launcher instead of steam

yeah makes sense

i mean again if you are going all out with that you may aswell use the xbox app and reap its full benefits

[random depot]

tbf I think piracy for games that cant be bought (Wolfenstein 2009 and Prey 2006) is ok

https://giphy.com/gifs/paper-meme-reaction-QBUhSIzyhhjblKrEud

stealing indie games is disgusting behaviour

[spring spear]

i think piracy is ok in general but lets not get into that
prey 2006 is on xbox still btw its how i bought and played it

idk why its not listed on steam anymore

[random depot]

only from massive corpos

then its A o K imo too

https://giphy.com/gifs/why-on-earth-L7nkjDpSI43YOu8zgU

[indigo nexus]

In an abstract sense yes, but it often does and this is most certainly one of those cases, haha

Believe it or not, playing a game does cause you to get better at it

You do, just less. Those keys were still purchased from the developer

They sell for less because of lower demand and give less to the devs because they’re usually purchased as part of bundles and other deals to be resold

[indigo nexus]

I feel like the take of piracy being universally ok is capitalistic to the point of impracticality, there are industries which serve to benefit us which just could not be viable if piracy were the norm rather than the exception. If piracy acts as a competitor then that’s okay, but otherwise it is just taking the labour of others and denying it its compensation

Not sure what you mean by got returned, if they were refunded then the keys would be revoked, but yeah they’re bought on discounts

[turbid crystal]

Yo can two teams of 3 please jump on da Cashout gamemode fr fr. Im tryna help a brotha qualify for da ranked mi bombarassclarrts\

[random depot]

I dont disagree that hours matter a lot, I just disagree with the premise hours played is a deciding factor.

It is a strong indicator but its much like a statistic for Winrate. Its simply a small piece of a larger puzzle

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus vautls are 50cm wide

[indigo nexus]

cool

[random depot]

This is why blocking bullets with light/medium is so consistent 👏

[chilly granite]

cashouts are 2m tall

Also the breach charge won't even destry floor under a cashout if it's not within 75mc on it

Like, breach charge needs ot be on the bottom 1/3rd of the cashout to destroy the floor

[limpid flicker]

Bro's quality is at UBER LOW

[random depot]

Simply use goo to break walls and ceilings and buildings 👷‍♀️

[long nymph]

change stun gun because everyone hates stuns in FPS. ||then add winch|| 🧠

[alpine sphinx]

another day of dash bs

biggest frustration factor in this game by a mile

[amber epoch]

Facts… but it’s on heavy class and that’s embarks favourite

[alpine sphinx]

literally how do you come to that conclusion

[indigo nexus]

pretty much identical reasoning to anyone who says any class is embark's favourite

cognitive biases from personal experiences or claims that only work within a very specific scope

[alpine sphinx]

yes but objectively heavy is by far the class that gets the most nerfs

[indigo nexus]

you've counted them?

[amber epoch]

The most broken, skill-less weapons on the class with the highest health pool and survivability. RPG and Flame are just aim in a lights general direction and they will most likely die.
Winch is a 1v1 guaranteed win, it stuns which was removed from light for being too broken but allowed on heavy why?
You heal the entire team, are next to unkillable with the 3 variations of shields you have and then complain at lights only way of surviving being to avoid bullets and dash out of the way

[indigo nexus]

furthermore, a higher number of nerfs could just imply a higher average strength

[indigo nexus]

winch is probably the worst heavy spec for a 1v1, its whole strength is that you can take someone from the other team and pull them into yours, so your teammates and then you can kill them super easily

it only gives you a slight advantage in most cases, for a 1v1, unlike the other specs which can do a lot for the fight

[modest lynx]

Idk the amount off the top of my head but Im like 95% sure heavy has received the most nerfs across the board ( might be medium tho)

[indigo nexus]

So have you actually done any measurement of this or not

Since I do know that people tend to view buffs and nerfs under the lens of whatever idea they want to push rather than what they actually are, because they can't remember most of them, only the ones they have much emotional reaction to

I saw so many people complaining about the game having more nerfs than buffs over a time period where there were actually more buffs than nerfs, a while back, that was amusing to note

[alpine sphinx]

also the by far slowest health regen, least healing capabilities, slowest, cant go through vents, flame is very easily countered by like 90% of ranged weapons, winch only works like you describe in a teamfight, it does not affect either ttk significantly, stun gun completely removed movement for several seconds, and rpg is the one way close range heavies have any way to deal with low hp lights running from them. the team heal is extremely slow, needs to be setup in advance to be useful, and you can only really bring 1 form of shield without making massive sacrifices.

also which weapons are broken and skill less in your opinion?

[broken mulch]

because its objectively he strongest class

competitive play is centered entirely around them

both light and medium have fallen out of some team comps at some point, but never heavy

on hml comps the medium is there to heal and move the heavy

[chilly granite]

heavy is also extremely efficent in casual modes, it's just not played there becuase people enjoy it less

[broken mulch]

the light is there to glitch other heavies and also heal the heavy

[muted condor]

As a heavy player all the nerfs are deserved

[broken mulch]

its not so powerful that it completely shuts down the other classes, and makes hhh the only viable comp

but it is the strongest class

[chilly granite]

literally the only reason that's true is because of verticalilty

[broken mulch]

completely disagree with flame and i think you exaggerated some of the issues, but i do agree on your main point that heavy is stronger than light or medium

[chilly granite]

hhh has to walk every staircase, they can just get frozen out by enemies breaking the stairs

rpg and winch are both stupid

[broken mulch]

we cooked if heavy ever gets something better than grav cube for vertical movement
not that grav cube is for vertical movement

im not saying nothing on heavy should be buffed and we should nerf it into the ground(spear could really use a buff) but its just the strongest class

[muted condor]

You see heavy has vertical movement it just works in reverse from light. Instead of moving to elevation you move the elevation down to you

[broken mulch]

ignore this message i cant read

i dont think heavy is so broken that other classes are unplayable tho

medium especially could use a buff rn, im not a fan of jump pad and defib being required picks

u get a bit of flexibility with the last pick but if u dont choose goo ur basically asking to be victimized

[alpine sphinx]

tanks are the most influencal class in any class based game, simply due to their nature of synergizing with the team

[broken mulch]

still the strongest

and its not like they're just a tank they output really good damage

[alpine sphinx]

ye i dont think heavy should have specialised long range options like bfr tbh, but i also think that long range combat should be generally nerfed a bit and come with more drawbacks, because especially in final rounds, long range is extremely oppressive on a lot of maps

[modest lynx]

Ill find the vid i heard it from but It might be outdated.

[broken mulch]

some form of map choosing would be really nice

[modest lynx]

That might be where I heard that, I just remembered that heavy got the most nerfs even though the Net Changes amounted to more buffs than nerfs

[broken mulch]

heavy 100% gets the most nerfs(or got) but thats because it was(and is) 100% the strongest class in the game

[sour portal]

Pyro rpg trust

[kindred gorge]

I don't think there is anything in the game that is entirely skill less cause you still need good SA and positioning

Top contenders: MH11, Double Barrel, V9S, Shak-50, p90

I'd be inclined to say riot shield too, that's mostly just the ones I see all the same

And I can testify to a lack of skill on most of these cause I use them frequently when things go south

[alpine sphinx]

i think melee weapons should be ranked seperately from guns, since they require a completely seperate set of skills to perform, some apply to all weapons of course, but doing well with guns does not mean doing well with melee and vice versa

[kindred gorge]

Sure but nullifying most incoming damage by running diagonally is pretty cheeky imo

[alpine sphinx]

well i agree that riot shield has a lower skill floor than basically all other melee weapons

[slow linden]

Goo spear,you don't really see that very often because spears hit limit can cause goo to protect your enemies

[kindred gorge]

It just requires you to be more accurate you can't just spray and pray until you eventually land a stick

[slow linden]

It's kinda ass I have no idea why you'd subject yourself to that,might try it though

[kindred gorge]

When winch fling is involved any concern of viability or well-roundedness is out the window (because I winch flung it)

[alpine sphinx]

i think spear needs to have its secondary fire reworked, because right now you can cancel it, but need to basically use an exploit to do so, but its also been known for ages and hasnt been patched so its not like they can still claim its unintentional. But who am I kidding embark probably has forgotten the spear even exists or something

[slow linden]

They just need to remove the hit limit from the weapon and not touch the stats,maybe mess with hitboxes a little

[alpine sphinx]

agreed, hit limits on melee weapons are stupid anyways, melee users should have an advantage when in melee range

still dont understand why they changed Sledge's right click to only affect 1 target

[slow linden]

Tbh yeah I've been hit limit scammed when using fucking riot shield before

[slow linden]

I have no idea,teams should receive harsh punishment for all standing in one spot

[broken mulch]

i agree on this except for in the case of sword lunge

remove multihit on lunge, and remove clamp

[slow linden]

Multi hit doesn't belong on sword imo,but guess what they gutted it and still didn't remove multi hit

[alpine sphinx]

no, the issue that makes sword lunge stupid is being able to dash at the same time, its the same thing that makes dagger hits sometimes feel completely random and unavoidable. Dash is the issue

[broken mulch]

i think its fine on the m1

[slow linden]

They turned it into a brainless spam weapon,no one does combos anymore

[broken mulch]

i mean u still gotta do combos in higher elo, they js made it way more oppressive against new players and way easier to be brainless with

[slow linden]

Not good btw,they just need to remove multi hit from it and give it back it's original stats

[broken mulch]

combos i usually end up using are:
light: m1 +m1 or lunge + m1 (qm combos are unreliable due to cam lock)

medium: lunge + qm + lunge (u get 2 chances to qm so its generally reliable)

heavy: lunge + lunge + lunge or lunge + lunge + m1 +qm

[broken mulch]

i 100% agree

[slow linden]

I am far more annoyed by sword now than I ever was when it was good,and sure lunge sometimes one tapping mediums and heavys in one dash was not good,but they really could've just removed multi hit from it

[alpine sphinx]

again, i think sword is generally fine. its dash that causes all the issues and needs to be tweaked down

especially on melee weapons, dash completely messes up hit registration both incoming and outgoing

[alpine sphinx]

like wtf is this lmao

[slow linden]

The dash was fine when it didn't multi hit,sword doesn't even have the reach to gain the intended benefits of multi hit,just give sword its old stats and remove it from the weapon

[slow linden]

Oh you mean the spec

[alpine sphinx]

yes, i mean the dash spec, not lunge itself

[kindred gorge]

If they cancelled your ability to attack during the dash it would be way more balanced

[alpine sphinx]

agreed, i think dashing should interrupt attacking, reloading, and using utility for like .2 seconds or something

[slow linden]

Yeah I completely agree,two specs that need to be completely replaced are dash and winch,I don't want them

[alpine sphinx]

The correct opinion

[kindred gorge]

they can replace it with the phase dash idea that's been mentioned before, the omnidirectional that goes through walls and floors and stuff but has one charge and a longer cooldown

[slow linden]

The dash from blastoff but with ghost powers

[alpine sphinx]

im generally fine with the idea, but it does open the way for some unwinnable matchups, however it would also significantly increase the usefulness of mines which i like

[kindred gorge]

like the ideal is that you use it as engage or a disengage tool for an encounter but you only get one of the two at a time so you gotta be smart about usage

I think I would more prefer that to be a seperate gadget and have them rework e dash

like the firing delay and drop a charge would be a big deal

or heck, longer cooldown would be good so that people can still burn all three to cross long gaps

Winch rework, maybe instead of a stun and free shots you add an attack (like a clothsline or something) to the end of the winch that deals set damage and puts the player behind you and releases them both at the same time

[alpine sphinx]

either way, dash seriously needs to be looked at closely because it is just way too influencial and at times just very clearly a broken mechanic

[kindred gorge]

cause then you can still throw people into the void and it would maintain it's cohesiveness with spear as the MultiCo shareholders intended

like there's enough things that make winch interesting that you really only need to tackle the one boring part to make it shine

Someone at embark needs to write this down I'm cooking

[edgy estuary]

Heavy mains discussing every other contestants specs like theirs aren’t the strongest most broken things in the game

[alpine sphinx]

riddle me this: seeding one but tournament difficulty "intermediate"

so if the difference between 1 and 8 isnt big, then why tf does 1 have to perform 3 times better than 8 or 7 to even gain any points

[indigo nexus]

define "perform 3 times better"

[alpine sphinx]

aka you have to be top 2 to even gain any points while seeding 8 sometimes even gains a slight amount when being second last

[kindred gorge]

I only have the heavy main role cause they are by a wide margin the chillest, I'm equally critiquing all the classes including heavy

actually, medium is the only one who did not catch a stray

[alpine sphinx]

heavy has by far the most variety in spec pics, lights are 95% dash and medium is like 60% heal beam

[edgy estuary]

Yeah because the other 2 specs are really useless at anything higher than silver players, you can see cloak on high settings, and grapple is just not as intuitive in 80% of situations, unless you’re neongutz.

[alpine sphinx]

light main detected

[kindred gorge]

That's why we're discussing how to balance the picks

[edgy estuary]

I play medium and light actually, so yeah I do have a good opinion on how the specs for those classes work

[kindred gorge]

Actually this isn't worth it, take your quibbling back to finals chat

[alpine sphinx]

and yet youre talking about heavy specs when you dont know how they work?

[edgy estuary]

Winch being broken is no secret

[kindred gorge]

Did you miss the winch rework/removal discussion?

[alpine sphinx]

and yet winch has a lower pickrate than both dash and heal beam

[edgy estuary]

Almost like overuse doesn’t correlate with being broken

[alpine sphinx]

in terms of being overpowered, it usually does

[chilly granite]

not really

[kindred gorge]

It can also be correlated to the other picks being underpowered, yeah

[chilly granite]

ease of use, and relative power to other options is significant

winch is harder than both CNS and mesh, even if it is easy

Medium's alternatives are both beyond trash

and lights alternative are situational at best

[edgy estuary]

But it doesn’t? Healing beam is chosen because it is a stronger strategy to support heavies, dash is chose because of survivability, and the other specs underperform.

[kindred gorge]

cloak is just on a razors edge in terms of balance, it's hard to make it either not viable or broken

[alpine sphinx]

demat is still extremely good, and turret can also be useful, its definitely not useless

[kindred gorge]

demat my goat

[edgy estuary]

Heavy just has the most viable variety, I still see more winches than anything else though.

[chilly granite]

Demat is a specialisation that acts as a breach charge and a goo grenade

[edgy estuary]

Demat is great, that is probably the second most used since the nerf right?

[chilly granite]

A breach and goo grenade is not a powerful specialisation compared to light or heavies options

[kindred gorge]

I feel like turret is undervalued but it's still hard for it to hold up to it's counterparts

[edgy estuary]

but with HHM being so strong, it doesn’t make sense for the medium to use anything but heal beam

[chilly granite]

Heal beam is also a garbage specialisation but a great gadget

Turret is also a garbage spec and a great gadget

[kindred gorge]

real, that's why HHL is on the rise

[chilly granite]

Defib is a great spec though

[kindred gorge]

infuser is just too good

[chilly granite]

Defib is mediums actual specialisation, and every single medium runs it

Because its the only thing medium has that is specialisation level of power

[edgy estuary]

The fact that 2 heavies is better to choose over most other teams is more of an indicator of balance than spec usage imo.

[chilly granite]

Infuser is directly better than beam unless you're reactions and aim are terrible

I do think grapple is undervalued by the entire community, it's strength in cashbox manipulation and rotation is insane, the problem is simply light survivability

[edgy estuary]

But at the end of the day the game is mainly pretty balanced, you can make almost anything viable after enough hours. Most problems people have are down to skill issues or getting cheated out of matches by smurfs.

[chilly granite]

And I think lights survivability is a problem because dash and invis are both aggressively overpowered, with dash just being so overpowered that nobody bothers with inivis since you need to run a specific cosmetic set for it

[alpine sphinx]

really not true, some weapons are unplayable in high elo unless you are an absolute god at the game. and long range weapons are generally always dominant because of the map design

[chilly granite]

Also needing a specific set of cosmetics to make it work is a huge problem too

Literally not true, there are players of almost every weapon in ruby, the only ones I'm not sure about are dual blades and riot

If you're below ruby you can for sure run anything you like

I mean I don't remotely agree the game is balanced

But things can be viable without being well balanced

[edgy estuary]

Nah I have seen monsters at just about every weapon that could at least take on diamond, even MGL. Just takes loads of hours at one weapon and playstyle

[chilly granite]

It's not the map design that favours long ranged weapons, it's the numbers. There's basically no penalty for using a longer ranged weapon

[kindred gorge]

I wonder if something like Orisa’s fortify would be a good heavy spec

[chilly granite]

The repeater has some better ttks than model on some classes even though it has insane range and the model has falloff beyond 15 and spread beyond 12

And similar DPS before the nerf

So you have one weapon that requires you to be within 15m for full damage and another than requires you to be within 35m and they have the same DPS, I wonder which is stronger

This is also true for the arn and lewis

[kindred gorge]

• very slight damage reduction, immunity to status effects

+large move speed reduction, can’t jump or ADS

Like it could hopefully by extension make LMGs more meta

[chilly granite]

Probably the reason for this is that casual players prefer cqb fights because it's easier to aim and more fun, and they balance on stats like play % rather than reality

So they see that long range weapons are underused and over buff them when they're just boring and unfun and no buffs fix that unless they're overpowered

Heavies cqb weapons tend to be the most powerful probably in part because heavy players are more likely to be tryhards so if a long range heavy weapon is good, they'll all use it

Cough cough deagles

Also heavies cqb weapons are kinda boring lol

[slow linden]

You ignorant tricycle brained infant,I was advocating for winchclaws removal as well as dashes,I am a heavy main,and I don't want winchclaw

And yet I play every class,so i actually know what every class needs

[slow linden]

Would probably end up a meta pick for minigun

[kindred gorge]

You’d be like fully stuck with the minigun lol but I guess that wouldn’t matter

[broken mulch]

mostly cause its specs are good

light's only real viable spec is dash

and medium p much wouldnt be used without defib

[kindred gorge]

I guess then the priority would be to make it short duration/slow cooldown enough that you still have some fights without it

[alpine sphinx]

two things can be true at once, the other specs can be underpowered and dash overpowered/broken

[alpine sphinx]

defi has a near 100% pickrate on medium, which is a problem, especially due to the way defib works

[broken mulch]

defib could be a spec and heal beam could be a gadget and itd make more sense tbh

[edgy estuary]

I’m an adult, but pop off. Not being able to track dash is a skill issue.

[broken mulch]

defib js defines medium

[slow linden]

As someone who uses dash I can confidently say its a crutch but whatever helps you sleep at night pookie bear

[slow linden]

24 seconds?

[edgy estuary]

Using an ability for its intended purpose = crutch? Just learn to use your utility and you won’t be outplayed.

[kindred gorge]

Maybe but I had envisioned it to function more like cloak in terms depleting meter overtime when in use and recharging when it’s not

[edgy estuary]

Beating most lights is actually so easy now it is a joke, yes you get the odd good player, but they arent as much of a threat as people make them out to be

[kindred gorge]

With the same fixed activation cost too

[edgy estuary]

Triple light might be annoying, but they aren’t going to beat a competent lobby of heavies and mediums.

[slow linden]

I play all classes fine and have won tournament matches where I've completely forgot to use my spec but sure light 'needs' dash just like heavy 'needs' winch

[kindred gorge]

But then let’s say

6 seconds of use at full charge
1 second worth of charge on activation (meaning full charge would actually be 5 seconds)
4 seconds to replenish 1 second worth of charge

That sounds decent for a spit ball

[slow linden]

Sounds good,and like 24 seconds to fully charge it? Maybe 20?

[kindred gorge]

Nah it would be 24

[slow linden]

Fair enough

[edgy estuary]

Winch and Dash aren’t comparable, winch is being used as stun gun 2.0 rather than for its intended purpose of displacement, Dash is what? just working as intended? No player above gold really cares about dash unless it counters their close range combat because the light got away.

[kindred gorge]

2.5% damage reduction (I think highest I would go is 5 but you don’t wanna hand out free 2v1 wins) and immune to burn,gas,glitch,null, and detect just to be funny

[edgy estuary]

They even added lockbolt to help, at some point you just have to work on yourself.

[kindred gorge]

I’m not sure if you’d wanna give immunity to being grabbed by winch and lockbolt too

But imagine throwing a sonar seeing nothing, thinking it’s safe then walking straight into a heavy standing by the cashout

It’s kinda cheese but would be silly

[alpine sphinx]

working as intended btw

[kindred gorge]

Why the heck am I proposing a 5th heavy spec when light and medium only have three?

[slow linden]

Dash has situational I frames based on whether or not the opponent is playing on an older TV or monitor,but I don't have that problem,it's just boring to fight at the end of the day,as is winch as a goo gun main I hard counter winch but I still don't like fighting it

[kindred gorge]

Oh duh cause it’s fun, nevermind

[slow linden]

Ah yes dashing inside someone's hitbox and one tapping them through the front is dash working as intended

[alpine sphinx]

He dashed away from me, also this isn't possible without dash, so yes, dash is buggy af when it comes to hitboxes lmao

[slow linden]

Light and medium can have a new spec when embark gets off their lazy asses and fixes the neglected ones that both classes have,heavy doesn't have a neglected spec,only one that needs to be removed because it's killing heavy and causing nerfs to things on heavy outside itself

[indigo nexus]

Huh? How could monitor possibly affect this

or do you mean like, high output latency making it harder to track, or... something

[edgy estuary]

All you’re showing is desync, which happens a lot with melee weapons?

[slow linden]

Something like that it's just something I've heard,some people have to track light during frames that can't exist with their particular monitor

[alpine sphinx]

that is not desync bro, he was never once behind me

[slow linden]

It was intentional hitbox cheese that dash can do with pretty much any weapon,I don't think you know this but if you dash inside a heavys hitbox it's pretty much impossible for them to hit you with anything other than a flamethrower or spear spin

[alpine sphinx]

... which is a massive fucking issue in a game where youre supposed to kill enemies

[edgy estuary]

Not on your screen, that is what desync is

I’m not saying it isn’t a real thing but that is what desync looks like

[alpine sphinx]

oh so youre saying dash causes issues with the game engine and makes scenarios that are unintenional and seemingly exploitative? sounds very "working as intended" indeed

again, this is not an issue with invis or grapple, it only happens with dash

[slow linden]

Yes on his screen,the only time the enemy disappeared was when he disappeared into his hitbox and hit his back mesh through his front

Which can be seen from both povs

The enemy was never just somewhere else on either pov

[edgy estuary]

No because it isn’t unique to dash, desync happens across all weapons, you just see it more on things like dagger as it has a specific hit box.

[alpine sphinx]

not to this degree bro, this is exclusive to dash

[slow linden]

Yes desync exists,yes everything has desync,but in this clip here was no desync,that's just what you can do with dash

[edgy estuary]

It isn’t you are just a heavy who hates dash, that is really all there is to it man.

[slow linden]

It lets you hide in hitboxes

[indigo nexus]

that is clearly desync

they dashed behind where you were when you entered the room and backstabbed you.

[alpine sphinx]

no they didnt, dude you can see both povs

[edgy estuary]

Yep and I am sure they were just as surprised as you

[indigo nexus]

instant replay doesn't show their POV in a chronologically accurate manner

[edgy estuary]

Desync applies to replays too

[alpine sphinx]

show me one clip of something of that nature happening without dash involved

[edgy estuary]

I’m not going to do that, you can just search The Finals desync clips and find them yourself dude

[indigo nexus]

this view does line up with desync too

[alpine sphinx]

"actually this is how it works, do some research" 🤓

[edgy estuary]

if you really want to analyse it show us like a whole 30 seconds of before you were elimed, because all we see is you walk into a room
Alone with an rpg ready to shoot the first thing you see and get desync stabbed.

[indigo nexus]

it happens 24/7, it's just most visible with dash because it's impossible for the game to predict future movements for something that happens almost instantly

[alpine sphinx]

ergo dash is broken and not working as intended, bro youre saying it yourself 😭

[edgy estuary]

Just for you i’m gonna go play dash light and make heavies playing on 1 sens with the game sense of potatoes rage on here how unfair that fights aren’t just handed to them.

[alpine sphinx]

okay, doesnt disprove my point but whatever makes you happy man

[slow linden]

You sound real fun at parties

[indigo nexus]

this is as intended, it's an inevitable consequence of its design

[alpine sphinx]

so you think dash was designed with the intent to desync the game and glitch out, warping hit boxes and hit zones to randomly kill you or save you completely from a death

[edgy estuary]

You had no point to begin with? Just another heavy struggling with lights, which is normal seeing as they counter eachother.

[alpine sphinx]

you said dash was working as intended, i showed you it didnt, you cope and say "but desync" i say "yes regular desync means its not working as intended" you say "k"

[edgy estuary]

Desync isn’t unique to dash, any movement does it, being winched, ziplines, grapple, cns

Yeah dash works as intended?

[alpine sphinx]

again, show me an example thats just as extreme, without dash involved

[indigo nexus]

if that's what you want to call it, but I think that's a bit of a mis-framing

it's not "random", it is fair and consistent. Just visually not intuitive

it's just a natural property of erratic movement

[alpine sphinx]

lol, i cant take you serious, please tell me how that clip i showed is fair and intentional

[indigo nexus]

they got behind you and backstabbed you. It was visually unintuitive for you, but they hit you fairly.

[stoic garden]

that's dagger ❤️

[alpine sphinx]

so dash can change direction midway through the dash then?

[indigo nexus]

no? where'd that come from

[sudden pewter]

Yellows should be banned from this channel smh

[edgy estuary]

How are you calling for dash nerf and don’t even know how it works?

[alpine sphinx]

he ends up in the corner to the left of the entrance. i was looking at the entrance. how the fuck does he get "behind me" then

[stoic garden]

obviously all heavies are lathered up in oil before matches so he just slipped on your juices and bumped into the wall

[indigo nexus]

you were likely looking approximately here when he stabbed you. He was really in the corner behind you at this time

[alpine sphinx]

i know how it works, but for that kill to have worked "as intended" he would have had to move into two seperate directions with one dash

[edgy estuary]

Which is impossible

[alpine sphinx]

no i fucking wasnt hahaha

[indigo nexus]

?

why do you believe that to be the moment of the stab from their POV? Given that you were backstabbed and we know where from, we know that can't have been when it happened.

[slow linden]

They should be burned at the goo fort

[stoic garden]

it could be the guy pulled off the dagger magnetic backstab slide tech that acts as a mini dash

[alpine sphinx]

why do you believe its intentional to go back in time and kill people? its clearly not intended

[sudden pewter]

His anger is righteous, Dagger is fucking stupid and the shitty servers don’t help. But this has devolved to shit throwing and isn’t benefiting anyone

SuperByte tier

[alpine sphinx]

my problem is that people keep saying "oh it happens anyway" when it clearly fucking doesnt, not to this extend anyway. Dash severely messes with the hitboxes, both incoming and outgoing, whether that is because of server desync or not it doesnt matter, it is broken and should be adressed

[sudden pewter]

I’m sorry my sweet little chungus but it’s actually latency and not the hitboxes

[stoic garden]

you're right! but embark does not concern itself with technical problems, the game is 100% esports ready!

[sudden pewter]

But you’re right, it should be addressed.

Unfortunately I don’t see any fixes anytime soon.

[indigo nexus]

it's intentional because it's an unavoidable design constraint of every realtime multiplayer game. Every kill with every weapon has this going on, it's just most obvious due to dagger's backstab requirement

[edgy estuary]

The game is a buggy mess, but we love it

[slow linden]

As someone who uses dagger,and has dashed directly into someone and seen their back mesh and stabbed them it's very much a problem with dash,it is not entirely desync if I can do it intentionally

[sudden pewter]

I wouldn’t at all be upset if dagger was outright removed from the game. It’s a holdout from an era where Embark was experimenting as they didn’t know what they wanted the game to be.

But that would also be cringe and gay, removing content is lame, even if any associated cosmetics were refunded many players enjoy the dagger and exclusively play it. Wouldn’t be fair to them even if it’s in the games best interest.

If nothing else, disable it until it’s issues can be addressed (melee rework is high priority)

[stoic garden]

😔 what about winch, it has no skins and isnt intellectually stimulating to play

[sudden pewter]

Stun needs to be removed. I don’t understand why Stun Gun was reworked but Winch gets a pass.

[stoic garden]

because nerfing heavy is.... heavy on their conscience

[edgy estuary]

Didn’t they remove the stun at one point? I swear it didn’t always stun

[sudden pewter]

The moment Winch gets balanced Goo Gun will be next to face the executioners axe

[indigo nexus]

no

[slow linden]

It doesn't need to be removed,dagger is a fine addition to the game that is misused by dash lights

[indigo nexus]

I think winch is fairly balanced, it's just something people won't be happy with.

[sudden pewter]

Shield counter has certainly put it into a better spot, it’s just ridiculous that even when already within 5m the user benefits from the stun.

It’s less a displacement focused tool and used more for the stun, a design flaw I would see rectified if I could.

[stoic garden]

stun gun walked so that winch could run

[sudden pewter]

I don’t believe there’s a silver bullet but a decent start would be making it so the “stun” only lasts as long as the winch user can’t shoot either within the servers limitations

[indigo nexus]

do you know by exactly how much it is offset right now?

[sudden pewter]

Varies based on range(by design) and latency (by circumstance)

[indigo nexus]

I was hoping for a function of range

[sudden pewter]

iirc the lowest stun value is 0.25 at point blank?

[indigo nexus]

I don't know for how long the winch stuns the user

[sudden pewter]

Nor do I off the top of my head

[indigo nexus]

latency, though? How does that make a difference here?

[stoic garden]

i'd like to see mesh reverted to 750 hp and winch with stun equalized ❤️

[sudden pewter]

Why Mesh revert?

[indigo nexus]

looks like the winch victim stun is 0.2-0.5 seconds, from 3-12m

[stoic garden]

i love mesh but i dont think the hp buff was a good idea, i'd rather heavy players have choices other than mesh in ranked you feel me

[slow linden]

May winch also be kneecapped

[stoic garden]

embark always does this shit, nerfs a spec to the ground and buffs its main competitor into a 100% pickrate

[alpine sphinx]

embark doesnt give a shit about pickrates

[stoic garden]

happened with demat and heal beam too

to some relative extent dash and cloak ig, but dash never got buffed

OH SHIT ok guys i gotta byebye

[indigo nexus]

They sometimes mention them in their patch notes. The evidence seems against this.

[sudden pewter]

Goo is great but reliant on creativity and quick thinking.
C&S is good but reliant on positioning to get the most out of it.
Mesh is evergreen and teamplay focused.
Winch.

[indigo nexus]

And before you say this, no, the fact that embark doesn't want every weapon to be equally popular does not mean they don't consider it...

[alpine sphinx]

dash and defi disprove this easily, as well as forgotten weapons that havent been meta since their addition

[sudden pewter]

Embark monitors pick rates and would buff a perfectly balanced weapon for the sake of seeing it taken more often, ruining a perfectly fine ecosystem.

[indigo nexus]

disprove how? This would only be true if I had posited that pick rate were the only thing they considered for balance

[slow linden]

You haven't been paying attention,pick rate is the ONLY thing they care about balance wise

[indigo nexus]

so your response is valid if it's targeted at @slow linden , I guess

[alpine sphinx]

well its clearly not a huge priority for them

[sudden pewter]

I still weep for Pike, taken out back and doubletapped. It wasn’t a clean death.

[indigo nexus]

Maybe. Well, personally I hope it isn't huge

[sudden pewter]

Haha man if only Embark would communicate haha imagine

[alpine sphinx]

not really, P90, M60 and FCAR were all fine pickrate wise, they were still buffed (fcar more of a nothing change tbf but still), dash has had a 90+% pickrate for at least 5 seasons, and defi has had a near 100% pickrate for the entire games existence.

[indigo nexus]

the balance guy is scared we will car bomb him if he ever has his identity widely recognised

[indigo nexus]

You don't have precise estimation for pick rates, it seems a bit silly to make such a point unless you're talking about, like, dagger

[sudden pewter]

Genuinely, Embark seems to prefer wearing a mask of ambiguity rather than be personable mainly because then they’d need to be accountable for their actions or lack thereof. Oscar gets off Scot free because he’s just PR and a mouthpiece!

[indigo nexus]

I would guess defib is like 65% and dash was like 70%, but I could be off by a lot on both

[alpine sphinx]

how is talking about dagger any more valid than talking about any other gadget or weapon? both is anecdotal if you speak from personal experience

[sudden pewter]

Imagine if the head of the balance team was here in the discord, take a moment to picture the living hell he/she would experience every day with white roles pinging him/her.

@BalanceGuy why is X still mid!!!! Do your fucking job!!1!2!1!

@BalanceDude How’s that melee rework hmmmmmm????!? (The one announced 4 seasons ago)

[edgy estuary]

Yeah I don’t envy the balance team in this game

[sudden pewter]

Regardless a large part of the frustration(s) with the game could be easily amended with a simple “Hey all, we’re aware of X/Y and it’s on our radar, thanks for the reports.”

[muted condor]

Can’t envy something that doesn’t exist

[sudden pewter]

Silence is silver, but when there’s an entire discord actively burning the bank down its value degrades. They need to talk more

[alpine sphinx]

i agree, the lack of transparency is really infuriating at times, and the dev notes in the patch notes often seem out of touch with the actual gameplay

[edgy estuary]

Yeah they just don’t communicate enough, give us a timeline, not everything has to be top secret. A lot of the most loved games have all had a lot of communication with their communities. I am hoping that they really focus more on the bulk of the playerbase next season and esports is behind us for now.

[sudden pewter]

The devs will never play the game as much as we do. More often than not they’re at odds with the community or correcting issues only they can see.

Daily reminder Embark does not do any QA. The launch of PB proves this.

[alpine sphinx]

callback to this amazing devnote lmao

[sudden pewter]

#📧┇contact-us is evergreen. Make concerns heard.

[edgy estuary]

Do you think all non automatic weapons beyond 40m should be projectile?

So you have to lead your shots, like bow

[alpine sphinx]

actually a decent idea to counter long range poke meta a little

for automatic weapons too tho

however, it does feel a bit goofy to have a projectile behave sometimes like a hitscan and sometimes like a projectile, i really hated this change when it came to the sr-84

[edgy estuary]

I think a lot of automatics fall off after 40m significantly, so maybe slightly less of an impact

[sudden pewter]

Hell naw

[edgy estuary]

I also think the big increase in destruction this season is feeding the poke meta too, it is very easy now to just level every building and form of cover. Like I love the destruction, but this season it feels like too much at times.

[faint flower]

my fatass stepped on the floor once and the whole roof came apart 💔

[edgy estuary]

Maybe some defences that are indestructible, like those button walls in more places could be good.

[alpine sphinx]

dont think thats a good idea, since that removes the opportunity to counter high ground by tearing it down

[edgy estuary]

I took down a whole 4 story house with a goo barrel

I was only trying to block off a door

[slow linden]

He should be

[alpine sphinx]

i feel like theres a joke about swedens rate of bombings somewhere in there, but i cant tell

[sudden pewter]

More than anything I’d love to see some measure of reconstruction utility. In PB especially leveling buildings gives defenders a massive advantage.

[slow linden]

You're thinking Ireland

In this case I mean

[alpine sphinx]

no cause sweden has bombings every other day, and embark is in sweden i mean

[slow linden]

Fair enough

[indigo nexus]

“They said it was on their radar several updates ago and nothing changed!”

[muted condor]

A Swedish company making a game set in Italy where everyone speaks English

[sudden pewter]

“Hey contestants, looks like the issue ran deeper than we thought and we’ve had to dig further into our foundational structure to find the root of the issue. It’s still being worked on but don’t expect anything until next season.”

[indigo nexus]

It really doesn’t. It just means their group of testers (who are absolutely minuscule in number compared to the players) didn’t think of it. It took like a week for it to become common knowledge among us!

[slow linden]

They aren't real

Like Santa

[indigo nexus]

Even if that’s a lie? This often wouldn’t be the case

Ultimately the answer to a lot of this will just be “it’s not high on our priority list”

[sudden pewter]

I would rather whittle my flesh off my body than acknowledge Embark has a QA team regardless of its size because that means not a single one of them thought of moving the grand vault into their spawn. Which players did within MINUTES of release.

[sudden pewter]

Any communication at all would be a start. Honest or otherwise.

[indigo nexus]

Fair

Of course, it doesn’t have to sedate the playerbase to be helpful, I do agree they should talk more about their processes

[sudden pewter]

That’s all I ask

[indigo nexus]

Perhaps none of them were gravity cube fans

Funnily enough it’s against steam’s SDA to not QA-test your products, but I don’t think they enforce that at all

[sudden pewter]

The gravity cube isn’t mandatory for moving the grand vault prior to the changes

[muted condor]

They would have to take someone off designing another dog shit skin for arc raiders to get any communication done

[indigo nexus]

But it was way more potent than alternatives, which took a long time. It’s possible that anyone who did think of it, was simply assuming it couldn’t go out of bounds

[sudden pewter]

Originally it could be fully brought into the defender spawn, so far that attackers could not go there without dying to the OOB timer.

Then they made it so that it couldn’t go into the Defender spawn, so they would just drag it into the border and fortify it since attackers couldn’t push into the OOB.

Finally, they just made it so the Vaults can barely move at all, because they gave up.

[indigo nexus]

I never had a match of point break where the vault was taken out of bounds, even with the issue being something much of the community was aware of, so the fact that in a few games a small team of testers didn’t run into it (discover it themselves even) seems quite reasonable

[sudden pewter]

Prior to the fixes almost every match of PB I played had bad actors abusing the OOB for an advantage. I even have footage I submitted to Embark so that they could punish the players committing the vile act.

(Players that did such got temp bans and permanent bans after X offenses iirc)

Side note: I’d personally love to see PB extended so that players can be both attacker/defender within a single match. W/L criteria would likely need to be adjusted accordingly but as someone that had 8 defense games in a row I somewhat understand the frustration.

[slow linden]

I think it'd be cool thing to play around with if certain support beams were indestructible but I feel like that's a slippery slope to horrible changes to the destruction

[compact tundra]

Aight boys it's time for another game of is it wall hacks

Call it boys Yay✅ or Nay❌

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, there’s no way he’d have seen your healthbar behind a wall and the fact he ADS’d RIGHT on top of you through a wall and tracked???

[compact tundra]

Yea Gonna be honest this might be the clearest I've ever caught on kill cam

[muted condor]

100% walls

[worthy plover]

BUFF M26 MATTER

[sudden pewter]

Absolutely, Embark keelhaul him

[compact tundra]

Yea I reported but who knows how that'll go

[sudden pewter]

Send this to #video-player-reports rn dawg

[compact tundra]

Aight

[sudden pewter]

Pretty obvious. If you do it in-game you’ll get a notification

[compact tundra]

So it says it requires a view of the score board for his embark id which I don't have

[sudden pewter]

Smh FAILURE

[compact tundra]

I'll make it anyways tho just to see

[sudden pewter]

You can also go to the recent tab for the ID but it isn’t as concrete

[chilly granite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330398299140127/1478508779384602748/I_love_my_loadout.mp4?ex=69a8a81a&is=69a7569a&hm=064b469064977c25e3fb2188d49eeaf498d2001d22218974450433fd7d989361&

I loooove my loadout

[slow linden]

Too bad he'll probably only catch a week ban,apparently embark doesn't do perma bans

[edgy estuary]

The guy hit him with a pyro, fire lets you see names through walls whilst they are burning, at least that is what I see.

[slow linden]

Were I to have it my way it'd be death by immolation

[compact tundra]

Does it? I use pyro a lot and never really noticed that