💣┇weapons-gadgets

[slow linden]

I mean cmon,they're not heavy

[hardy dust]

If they were heavy then they'd also never leave the meta

Only light actively gets truly shafted by embark

[sage cradle]

do yall think repeater is still good after its minor nerf?

[unkempt moss]

Maybe if light players didn't act the way they do then embark would give them smooches too

[serene glade]

Nerfing 2 weapons is cool and all, but when are the implementing fun?

[unkempt moss]

Bank it is fun. I had forgotten

[unkempt moss]

I don't have enough experience with it to know

[serene glade]

Ah yes, I was told recycling is good

[unkempt moss]

Its the best were getting bud.

Embark is doing their best to bring us this exquisite content

[sudden pewter]

Surely next week will be the beloved KS23 Eclipse Shade release

[unkempt moss]

No. Its toy box shak mini sa

[slow linden]

Light gets gloinked by neglect,heavy harbors the most parasitic spec in the game,one that only corrupts and takes away from heavys arsenal,embark too scared to remove it,the duseased corpse of heavy shambles on unable or unwilling to use anything else

The need to reverse every single nerf to cloak and buff grapple

Medium remains the most meticulously balanced and viable class at all times because embark actually cares about balancing Medium to some degree

[unkempt moss]

Gatekeep wepsNgadg. Do not let them ruin this sanctuary.

[stoic garden]

every single one? even the one that made it not last 233 seconds when standing still?

[slow linden]

Tbh yeah

[stoic garden]

WHAT

[slow linden]

Was really fun to fight,good flip floppy game of cat and mouse

Was fun to use,could hide and actually be stealthy

[stoic garden]

i faced 3 cloak lights in a final cashout round in season 5 as cloak lh1 myself

we were ALL invisible poking at eachother, my teammates got eaten immediately and i stalled our cashout with cloak pressure alone for half of its duration

while it did get ass clenching i dont think I'd like anyone to face this kind of shit

i think the current standstill cloak time is fine, managing it well is part of the charm imo

ok it was 133s not 233

still insane

[slow linden]

Kinda funny

Much funner meta than a dash meta though,people just needed to get used to spy checking

[stoic garden]

my fav thing about cloak lh1 is that headshot only kills lights in a little above the average human reaction time without factoring in ping, which means unavoidable death if ur stealing 🤑

[slow linden]

Death is unavoidable if you're stealing unshielded on any class tbh

[stoic garden]

yea but usually lights would just dash away with enough reactivity, they totally cant vs lh1

[slow linden]

Dash meta is cringe tbh I don't really like fighting it,it's beatable,just not interesting

[stoic garden]

i dont like dash but i dont blame who uses it

i just wish other specs were you know, competitive

it's kinda sad that I'm the only player I've ever seen in a lobby actually cloak camp cashouts

it's such an obvious strategy but nobody seems to know cloak lasts longer when still

[slow linden]

I don't blame the people who use it considering it's the only usable spec on light,but in a perfect world where the other specs are usable I'd certainly judge people for using it,it'd just be a boring pick,sure it's a boring pick now but it's the only pick for most builds

[stoic garden]

highkey gonna terrorize people with it in ranked in a few mins

[slow linden]

Grapple dB is surprisingly dirty,try it out when you get the chance

[stoic garden]

i played grapple db in season 3, very funny

it doesn't didn't get any change since then iirc

[slow linden]

Bro instinctively typed cloak when talking about db

[stoic garden]

true

i played cloak db in season 6 actually, boring as hell but it won games

and in season 9.... i dont even play light

[slow linden]

I like it,but it's a lot of sitting around

[stoic garden]

i couldn't play cloak lh1 well before cuz i had ass aim, ass fps and ass visual recoil, visual recoil is kinda dead, fps issues semi fixed, aim slightly improved

i should be able to make it work finally

when you can finally use THE LOADOUT

[slow linden]

Good luck

[random depot]

Cloak should be more visible while standing still and less visible while moving. Make it last longer while moving and make it LOUDER while moving.

The cloak wouldn't be exclusively used to play poke weapons

Moving should be rewarded and standing still should be more niche. Like all you get is audio for invis being super quiet.

Cloak is also hard to see depending on how strong your PC is. I had no issue facing invisible players in season 1, but when I played on poopooPC I couldn't see Glass, invisible lights or jump pad trails

[broken mulch]

but if ur gonna be moving around in a fight i feel like ur js better off using dash

and if you really want invis js pop a vanish bomb

[graceful spade]

what bro nahhh

[hallow spire]

Dash is just too fun to not use

[placid slate]

Shits already deafening when moving as is

[indigo nexus]

The main things that affect its visibility are your monitor and anti-aliasing / upscaling

[indigo nexus]

I don’t like the idea of lights being able to go invis mid-gunfight and you not being able to clearly see what they are doing if they move, it seems like it would be too big of an advantage if it became good at this role.

And an intermediary state is not preferable because it magnifies the difference that different setups make on the effectiveness of invis, it kind of has to spec hard into one side or the other in order to be not so arbitrary

[random depot]

True its why vanish bomb is confusing, why add invisibility as a specialization and a gadget

[random depot]

I mean scaling the max duration would solve that. If youre less visible while moving then a maximum duration of 8 seconds would be reasonable no?

Its just its a bit counterproductive for light to have invis if its a class that rarely ever wants to be stationary

Maybe give invis as is to medium?

[indigo nexus]

I don't think so. That would only make the focus on rapid movement even more intense

[random depot]

Cause dash is basically always good

[indigo nexus]

Well... it does, that's what invis is for :p

[random depot]

I feel as though the difficulty of moving correctly and the punishment of being hit being higher would make the skill/reward ratio more fajr

[random depot]

I mean invis bomb yes 💯

[indigo nexus]

difficulty of moving correctly? I don't think I understand what you mean. Nor for punishment of being hit being higher.

[random depot]

But if youre in a matchup vs a dash light or grapple light youre at a pretty substantial disadvantage

[indigo nexus]

Invis would have a lot less nuance if you could just... play normally while using it, so I don't understand that take I guess.

[random depot]

Opposite effect imo

If you lose 2 seconds for being shot thats a massive drop off to your total

[graceful spade]

fr

[broken mulch]

sure but it wouldnt be fun to fight of it was too good and it wouldnt be fun to play if it wasnt good enough

[random depot]

Thats fair

[broken mulch]

invis is in a weird spot where by its nature it can endup really unfun to play/play against based on how strong it is

[random depot]

Which is why I dont know if its even balancable

[broken mulch]

something like mesh shield can be tweaked much more easily than invis

[indigo nexus]

Why?

[random depot]

It has no nuance now, its either stand still and burst someone down or hide in a corner and do the same

[graceful spade]

isnt it in a good spot?

[indigo nexus]

If I didn't have to worry about stealth while running invis then I'd just use it going into every fight and every time in the fight that I wasn't under active fire, but wouldn't have to change my playstyle in any other way

[random depot]

Thats a gross oversimplification

[broken mulch]

oh i think it is im js saying its easier to change cause improving hp can make it better without making it busted and vice versa

[indigo nexus]

That seems more nuanced than just playing as normal, but this seems like... well, what you just said, a gross oversimplification

[broken mulch]

unlike invis, in which strengthening invis can easily make it way too good and weakening it can easily make it way too bad

[random depot]

I was an invis main for a long time, its really the easiest thing to use. The only adaptation you make is learning when to stand still and when not to

[indigo nexus]

Invis is given nuance specifically by the fact that movement is punishing, I don't think it has much other source of it right now. So I can't see what you're suggesting removing that would add

[random depot]

Stealth is already a massive part of light, invis simply amplifies it and let's you hold spaces you shouldnt because its obnoxious to fight an invis LH1 or invis V9S

[random depot]

Thats not nuance thats difficulty caused by clunky design

More often than not I dont use it while moving because why bother?

[indigo nexus]

Well it quite plainly is, it's why timing and correctly determining what to do while invis is important. Why do you consider it clunky?

[random depot]

That exists with or without invis on all classes

[indigo nexus]

I don't understand, this sentence seems nonsensical.

[random depot]

Poor design ≠ difficulty

[indigo nexus]

where do either of those come from in this discussion

[random depot]

Its less a discussion now, you arent familiar with the concept of skill floor and ceiling enough and are fighting from an anecdotal perspective

If you look at the broader gameplay of Light, invis ads nothing beyond resource management. A concept that exists for everyone

[indigo nexus]

I don't even know what your perspective is, you're being so vague!

[random depot]

Yes you can stand in more interesting spots but again this isnt depth is just a thing

Im not being vague as far as im aware

We would be here all day if I were to go over every single pheasible position A light can be in with invis and how it doesn't actually change the gameplay enough to be considered depth

[indigo nexus]

Why do you think your idea will improve invis? You've given no explanation

[random depot]

I dont think it necessarily will, I said it offered more depth

Theres more focus on decision making if you cant just chill for 12 seconds in a corner

Invis is fundamentally flawed by concept

Overwatch faced the same issue for years with Sombra

Her stealth is now tied to something akin to Invis bomb + gateway

[indigo nexus]

Invis places limitations on you, so I don't get why you are talking about the removal of a limitation as something that adds depth. With your suggestion, what depth would be added? So far you are only saying that you don't think invis is deep enough.

[random depot]

Which results in a larger focus on decisions and makes afking no longer optimal

The limitations are arbitrary, the limitation is you arent gonna have the flexibility to move around as much

Theres no healthy format of invisibility but at least allowing it compete with dash in any way without it being the same cheese strat we've seen since season 1

[indigo nexus]

What's wrong with that as a limitation?

[random depot]

It makes only one playstyle possible in a game about adapting

The only other thing in the game with that same issue are mediums turret

You either play around turret positioning like youre tf2 engineer or you might as well not have it

Like invis bomb is great imo, its loud and a long CD and it forces a choice. Theres more opportunity for counterplay and equally the player can make invis bomb work for them by using it optimally

[indigo nexus]

You are yet to explain why your idea for invis would create one at all, this doesn't make sense until you do that. Allowing for a new playstyle is better than doing nothing, of course

[random depot]

Ill elaborate if I wasnt clear before, if you have more agency to move around you have more use case scenarios.

More opportunity to use it, means more creativity and applied situations where it actually fits into the usual MO of Light. Get in, get out and dont die.

If I can actually use it to reposition at least once in a fight without risking lots of damage it can actually compete with dashes.

I understand though this obviously takes away from invis bomb so there is that

If you make it stronger at what it currently does its oppressive and if you change it why does invis bomb exist?

So its always going to be tied to the weapons that make it viable

As soon as youre against a competent player you cant use invis with anything other than V9S and LH1.

[indigo nexus]

At a baseline you have full agency to move around. Having invis as a spec does not prevent you from doing this, so this point doesn't make sense unless you specify what extra decision making would come with incentivised mobile invis.

Again, you seem to be thinking that a removal of a limitation adds to the gadget's depth but are not specifying what that would add that not using the spec in the first place doesn't do.

Invis having a use case shifted so it goes more toe-to-toe with dash in a straight fight would be bad for variety, I think. It should be focused on something other than brawling.

[random depot]

Limitations only create depth when the ability has high impact like say Winch claw or Nullifier

[indigo nexus]

Not really no, just don't make it too much stronger

[random depot]

Ok you clearly are biased and ive lost interest

[indigo nexus]

How could a limitation not create depth? Why does invis not count as "high impact"? You just aren't explaining anything.

[random depot]

I shouldnt have to

[indigo nexus]

After all this time you haven't even acknoweldged the core question I've had to re-iterate several times

[random depot]

Inferred knowledge is usually applied in a debate regarding balance

Theres people smarter than me with more patience to explain these concepts. There are plenty of coaches in The Finals and any competitive game that can explain the concept of difficulty scaling and skill floor and ceiling in way you might understand better

I clearly have failed and lack the patience to do it

[indigo nexus]

I am not asking you about those, I am asking you to justify the points you wish to make. Which may involve them, but it's not clear as you haven't linked them to any part of your argument yet.

[random depot]

I have, you not seeing the pattern doesn't mean its not there

[indigo nexus]

It is not my responsibility to guess what your argument might be. I've only been exposed to the highest level representation of your stance, there's no way to infer what's behind it with any degree of accuracy

[random depot]

https://youtu.be/2ivj6V1Q1Pw?si=kP8yatEYhkFv5lo-

[random depot]

Im sure C4tter would understand 😔

@sudden pewter my goat pls help

[indigo nexus]

Why would this be relevant to me, I know what skill floor/ceiling means

[random depot]

Clearly not

[indigo nexus]

The only time you even brought up the phrase was to say I wasn't familiar with it, you didn't use it in your argument

[random depot]

Your claims would indicate you dont actually understand the difference between skill floor and skill ceiling and how it applies to difficulty scaling in a game

[indigo nexus]

Which ones and why

[random depot]

All of them and because invis is easy to use and has a very low value ceiling

[indigo nexus]

At least that's more detail than you gave up until now.

Why would your idea make invis harder to use, and why would it increase its ceiling, assmuning viability was maintained? From my perspective it'd do the opposite.

[random depot]

The difficulty comes from poor design and that you cant compete with builds that include dashes. Therefore youre forced into a disadvantage

A disadvantage thats a proxy of said bad design

[indigo nexus]

Well, you can, invis-ambush them and kill them before they can do anything about it

invis was meta for a while without being much different to how it is now, after all, just harder to see

[random depot]

If you have counterplay and more opportunity to use it. It raises the skill ceiling and floor due to larger resource restrictions

It was meta with what gun remind me

[indigo nexus]

Making a single-purpose tool useful in all scenarios would remove any and all nuance from it. You need to justify why your proposed change would not move us closer to that state.

[indigo nexus]

I don't really remember, this was in like S4/5?

[random depot]

Because single purpose tools do not function in a game that requires constant adapting

[indigo nexus]

well they do, there's plenty of examples

[random depot]

Chaos is the only guarantee

[random depot]

Name one

[sudden pewter]

I just woke up

[indigo nexus]

sure, motion sensor

you deploy it and it performs one task

[random depot]

Ok thats not a single purpose tool

[plucky spade]

wtf are you talking about here

[indigo nexus]

With how I used the term, it is. When reading my message assume a definiton which would consider a gadget that has one mechanical function to meet that criteria

[random depot]

It also functions better on light than on other classes due to them not really having the opportunity to set it up in a valuable position

[random depot]

So lacking any nuance as usual

[indigo nexus]

???

I'm the one who brought in the term, what are you even trying to say here

I could have worded it differently but I think I explained what I meant okay.

[random depot]

Invis has very few use cases in fights, it doesn't have a high reward and it doesn't offer depth in regards to gameplay loop.

When we are talking about single purpose were talking Turret and Invis

[plucky spade]

actually it'd be real nice if cloak as a spec was something like
Full invis even when running but you need to uncloak to do anything
And the gadget was current cloak

[random depot]

Nearly every other specialization and gadget have multiple purposes and uses

[random depot]

Yes!

[plucky spade]

Since cloak bomb can cloak the entire team it won't lose much value

[random depot]

True then it would be more team oriented

Currently youre forced into being greedy with it a lot of the time, other than maybe on entry or after a revive

[indigo nexus]

It has a use case in any fight wherein you are not likely to be hit by an enemy shot at every moment. If you can break line of sight at any point then it becomes definitely useful.

If invis was just generally really weak then "doesn't have a high reward" could work, but it definitely has the highest potential payoff of the use of a light spec I would argue - you can do a ton of damage to a team by being able to perform an unexpected attack on them that would have been impossible otherwise

[random depot]

Now we are just being dishonest

[visual raptor]

if you cant see invis players u might need glasses

[random depot]

Stealth like I said is a major part of Light already. All invis does is amplify it without any extra depth

[random depot]

Slight simplification but generally I agree

[plucky spade]

what monitor are you using

[indigo nexus]

On what?

[visual raptor]

what does the monitor have to do with anything

[indigo nexus]

This would be true if invis made you harder to see and did nothing else, however this is not the case, so this isn't true. From my perspective your change would bring us closer to that state.

[random depot]

My brain hurts id rather talk to Air Hike now

[plucky spade]

i can't see invis that well on a laptop screen

[random depot]

Yeahhh

[visual raptor]

240hz old ass alienware ive had for like 8 years now

matte panel, idk its just like not that hard to spot warbly distorted movement

[plucky spade]

coughing baby vs nuclear bomb ahhh argument

[random depot]

Seeing invis is literally a setup check. Do you have a good enough pc? And screen? Yes? You have now won

[visual raptor]

bro what are you like 60hz gamin or what air hike

[random depot]

When I had poopooPC I couldn't see fkin glass

[plucky spade]

laptop screen bro

[visual raptor]

also run no AA

[indigo nexus]

invis's effectiveness is partially based on your cosmetics too, which is a big issue

[plucky spade]

it's like 21in or something

[visual raptor]

tuff

grapple and dash provide just so much more util imo though

[random depot]

Because they make sense and arent clunky

[visual raptor]

long story short invis poop use other specs

[random depot]

Morning, forgor about the time zones thing my B

[visual raptor]

whats this communities view on heavy charge

[random depot]

I like it more than rein charge in OW

Wish you could do a leap with it and max dmg was 50

Like you can still charge OR do a leap across a building like the hulk

[visual raptor]

my only complaint is you shouldnt be able to turn so fast on mnk

[random depot]

Probably OP af though

[random depot]

I have a strong disdain for controller

[alpine sphinx]

Bro what 😭

[random depot]

Dont limit my platform because controllers arent good for FPS games

They already did that to Apex and Call of Duty

[compact tundra]

? They really didn't, the only game I know that actively limited M&K to better support roller is shadowrun 2007

[random depot]

Apex pro scene would beg to differ

All the nerfs to movement were because of console

[compact tundra]

Stong af aim assist doesn't count as limiting M&K

[random depot]

Tap strafing got a massive nerf

[alpine sphinx]

I don't get why anyone would even consider playing a shooter with a controller tbh. Shit is so ass

[random depot]

Its like playing a fighter game on M&K

Apex continued to nerf movement until I gave up and uninstalled

[alpine sphinx]

Fighter game on m&K is infinitely better on m&k than controller shooter

[compact tundra]

That's not limiting M&K on their own, that's nerfing a movement tech that solely benefited M&K. I mean it is a nerf to M&K but it's not directly affecting their ability to function, it's removing exclusive tech

[random depot]

Id argue thats the same thing

[compact tundra]

No, the M&K works the exact same, you just got exclusive tech removed that gave M&K a massive advantage

[random depot]

Which shouldnt have happened

[alpine sphinx]

Nah fighting games on the keyboard is not the best but it's fine

[random depot]

Its playable, not optimal

[alpine sphinx]

Yes, but controller shooter isn't playable

[random depot]

Nerfing anything for console is just bad game design

[alpine sphinx]

I will die on this hill and am completely unbiased

[random depot]

True thats why they get aim assist

Aim assist exists because its the inferior platform

Aiming with a nipple will never compete with aiming on M&K

[compact tundra]

Seems pretty playable to me, though depends on how you wanna play. Roller has by far the best movement

[alpine sphinx]

Bro there is probably someone that can play well on a dancing pad, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea

[compact tundra]

Did you have fun on the dance pad? Yes... Did you play well? Yes... Then it was a good idea

[alpine sphinx]

Also sorry those clips look clunky as hell.

[sudden pewter]

My legend so great I have yellows calling me goats smh what did I do wrong

[random depot]

Dont treat me like a second class citizens because of my colour ☹️

LMFAO THAT WAS THE MESSAGE THAT GOT ME TO RED

Thats hilarious 😂

[compact tundra]

Might look a bit weird cause I use 500 horizontal and 350 vert. I upped my hor to 500 cause I've been trying dash dagger, usually ~420. The flame clips are 420-450 but the ARN is 500 iirc

[random depot]

Aim assist in this game is overtuned

[compact tundra]

How does the aim assist work in this game?

[random depot]

Given how many silvers who were beaming but would completely throw in every other department when I came back to this game

[plucky spade]

well it's inertia based so sharp turns kill all your speed

[random depot]

But its like the only reason you can even play vs PC so eh

[alpine sphinx]

Reason why I don't like cross play in PVP shooters

[random depot]

I have cross play off during the day

[sudden pewter]

Consoles are second class citizens of gaming. Developers need to give them handicaps or they can’t play with PC players.

[random depot]

Yuhp

[alpine sphinx]

Back in Ow1 days I remember seeing console masters gameplay and it's just PC gold

[random depot]

I've faced a lot of scrim ximmers

Holy boring

[sudden pewter]

Crossplay is awesome because it means the playerbase doesn’t need to be divided, less barriers is great. Crossplay sucks because we have to be neutered lest console players tweak out because we can aim. There’s also ofc the cheating/scripting issues unique to each platform

[alpine sphinx]

I'm not familiar with the technical side of it, but isn't it possible to "fake" controller input with mnk to take advantage of aim assist?

[compact tundra]

You haven't answered the question, if it's broken can you tell me how it works, what form of Aim Assist is broken?

[sudden pewter]

The flagging system The Finals uses for crossplay is awful.

[random depot]

Im not entertaining a console conversation, aim assist shouldnt exist from a balance perspective period

But here we are giving a crutch to people choosing the worse platform

Cause playercount is important

[sudden pewter]

AFAIK no. But I’m sure there’s workarounds. I’m more familiar with consoles getting M&K but still registering as controllers.

[compact tundra]

Console is the budget option, it's not a choice a lot of people make willingly, it's what they can afford. And if you're willing to whine and moan about something you seemingly don't even understand, then you should at least be willing to discuss it and maybe learn about it.

The Aim assist in this game isn't like most others, the aim snap and target tracking are capitally pretty weak, it's the aim slowdown that is tuned strong, basically as long as your partial inputs are within the ballpark of tracking a target, then the aim assist will stop you from over shooting. It's not tracking the target for you like other games

[random depot]

PC is often cheaper as a budget option

No PSN, games on sale at significantly lower prices, scalable

Console is and always will be the lazy persons preference

[compact tundra]

Sure, that's why most of the PC parts are skyrocketing in price, and we're on a game that is notoriously bad at optimization so it's not exactly gonna run on your Lenovo laptop

[random depot]

Thats recent but ok bucko

[compact tundra]

People work 40+ hours a week and don't wanna learn about pc parts on the side and research what parts best work with there game

[random depot]

See, point proven

[compact tundra]

There's lazy and then there's I just wanna come home and play my game without 2+ weeks of research

[random depot]

No, youre just lazy

[compact tundra]

And then dropping more money upfront to save money on a subscription. Which btw on Xbox you don't need to pay for online for free to play games

[random depot]

Yap yap yap

[sudden pewter]

Consoles historically were the budget option, never fear, Gabe Newell as always will provide the answer. The Steam Machine will finally end the Console v PC War.

[slender bear]

I'm hyped for new specs next season

[random depot]

Public opinion ≠ reality

[random depot]

Is that confirmed???

[slender bear]

Gabe Newell always delivers

[sudden pewter]

No, just cope.

[random depot]

Noooooooooooo

[slender bear]

Rob said they were coming in S9 or S10, it's probably not S9 atp

[sudden pewter]

This is the same dude that complained about Light not getting new toys 😔

[random depot]

I was excited :(

[random depot]

Didn't they sell PlayStation at a loss because they would recuperate similar to how restraunts and hotels overcharge for conveniences

[slender bear]

Dawg that was like 2 days a few months ago, let it go man

[sudden pewter]

#💣┇weapons-gadgets message

Naw I got that shit saved

[random depot]

Oh my lord

I love your level of petty

[sudden pewter]

Comparing this game to Apex is peak stupidity. It’s a stain that never fades

[slender bear]

Mb 11/30 was only like two and a half months ago
I need to stop spreading misinformation ig

[sudden pewter]

Ong.

[random depot]

True

[sudden pewter]

You’ll be on your deathbed, surrounded by loved ones present to watch you pass; and I will shatter the window to present these logs so they can pull the plug on you of their own accord.

[random depot]

😭

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12450451651611168773

[slender bear]

Since then we've broken the 33 month mark, I lowkey wanna see if Embark will actually push for 3 years without a new light spec

I wouldn't even be mad atp

[slender bear]

You think I have loved ones?
I forfeited that right back in late November 🤣

[sudden pewter]

NGL I like to think the majority of players don’t need shiny new toys or jingling plastic keys to maintain their attention. We have a pile of lackluster weapons and specs that if refurbished could essentially be treated as new.

Rather than adding to the pile or powercreeping existing options with new stuff for the sake of novelty or having new stuff, I’d prefer they work on dusting off the pile of stuff in the corner of the room before it grows mold

[slender bear]

Besides, Apex is old news
At least now I can say with objective truth that BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT adds more stuff to Overwatch than Embark does to The Finals 😂

[slender bear]

True

[sudden pewter]

Blizzard needed a W so bad they finally bent the knee to get the Goo*ers to come back. Love/Hate to see it.

[random depot]

Yeh

I love the cat though

[sudden pewter]

Rocket Cat is the most stupid fucking design in existence and was a meme, Blizzard in their desperation to not go under actually made it real and it’s both pathetic and beautiful in equal measure.

[ashen hawk]

idk everywhere i search im told the machine and a ps5 would have the same specs, and the machine is a 1000 dollrs, so how that the budget option??

[random depot]

PC takes too much effort for the brainrotted

[sudden pewter]

Prices haven’t been confirmed, disable AI Overview.

[slender bear]

Rocket Cat is the future of the finals, Oscar told me in a vision that that's the next class they're adding.

[sudden pewter]

Furthermore, read. Don’t skim. Consoles were the budget option.

[random depot]

Thats why I need you

You understand nuance so well 😢

[sudden pewter]

The Finals doesn’t have classes. You will be decorticated like a banana and your screams will be muffled by the stars.

[slender bear]

We have weight classes

Also, don't threaten me with a good time.

[random depot]

Where's obese and welter weight

[sudden pewter]

We have archetypes. Not weight classes.

[random depot]

Where's my anemic light class

[sudden pewter]

This is a hero builder, not a class based shooter per Embark

[random depot]

Its an arena shooter with TF2 class system

[fresh dragon]

Pls buff famas

[slender bear]

That's the next light spec, you projectile vomit for temporary poison damage and a 10% size decrease + speed boost

[random depot]

Lmfao

[sudden pewter]

So I brought it up with Oscar and he said they’re adding another 3 Legendary ARN skins. Hope that helps

[random depot]

Mp5 skins when

Right now the basic 125 multibucks skin is the only one I like

[sudden pewter]

You have Eclipse Shade, you don’t need anything else

[random depot]

Youre not wrong

Also m11 skins, like a tec9 m11 skin

Goo gun skins too pls

I dont want more guns

Id rather them add them as skins

[sudden pewter]

I wouldn’t mind more weapons but we need to address what we have before adding more imo

[random depot]

I agree 👍

[sudden pewter]

Melee weapons as a whole still need their promised rework. The MGL was listed as “low priority” for a rework but it’s still relevant.

[random depot]

Mgl is just a meme weapon

[sudden pewter]

Dagger is a meme weapon, the MGL (even when used poorly) is still very good if for nothing else than Destruction and ranged spam

[random depot]

Well yeah my buddy uses it

Can't say im a fan as a team mate, it makes fight readability a lot a less consistent

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, but it’s stupid easy to get value out of by just choosing a direction and just shooting like an ape.

Mind, this opinion largely comes from Point Break where cover is of utmost importance. It’s definitely D tier in places like Cashout

[random depot]

I mean i imagine in PB its better

[sudden pewter]

Oh infinitely better.

If you destroy the building an objective is housed in/on. Attackers have to expend utilities to make a push, which requires coordination, such thing is a rarity.

[random depot]

Yeah sounds about right

[sudden pewter]

• Goo grenades can be burned or destroyed
• Barricades are too small to be effectively used as cover for multiple players or to defend from broad angles
  MGL can just spam from a distance, not even requiring LoS.

[random depot]

I miss headglitching with barricade

[sudden pewter]

Until Embark introduces gamemode specific weapon balance, or a gadget/spec that rebuilds destructible geometry, MGL will be insane for PB just due to the nature of its demolition damage and spam value.

[random depot]

They need to do separate balancing for the different modes

The objectives and maps determine the viability of most things

[sudden pewter]

That’s a tough nut to crack, we already have issues with new player retention, imagine a noob liking the sniper in Quick Cash and enjoying it, only to play PowerShift and see it’s only got a single shot before needing to reload (changed for the insane sightlines the mode offers)

[random depot]

Every solution comes with its own set of problems

Id argue focus one mode first and then build from there

[sudden pewter]

In a perfect world, Embark would add solutions rather than making things behave differently based on gamemode or map.

But there’s never going to be something that pleases everybody

[random depot]

Indeed

World peace would be achievable if that was the case

[west wasp]

Make the game for mobile

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-rot-lil-nas-x-mpreg-pregnant-discord-gif-5991367321020313704

[slow linden]

I don't think poke cloak is meta,rush is more common

[slow linden]

I play on a meh Xbox and see it fine

[fleet anvil]

agreed

[random depot]

This has nothing to do with my point but go off king

[slow linden]

Your point was you either love poke cloak or you find it loathsome,not quite sure

[random depot]

No

[stoic garden]

bro is gatekeeping his opinion

[chilly granite]

tbh I think that's a fair reason to look at the mgl for a rework

I don't think it's a good weapon design in any case

same with cl40

good weapon designs work well in any gamemode, like the sr84 with projectile past 40m

it's functinoal in tdm, powerful in powershift, and can be a solid option in cashout and point break

if the power level of a wepaon or gadget becomes exponentail when massed, it's probaly not balanced well

(dome shield)

shields that overlap should merge and act as one

glitch one = glitch both
damage one = damage both

no two "layers" of shield, furthers layer is real

[stoic garden]

sounds unnecessary ngl

[stoic garden]

yea i was able to imagine merged domes

[sudden pewter]

Yeah but can you imagine several isles of discounted chocolate?

[stoic garden]

yes

[chilly granite]

merge domes would probably be enouhg of a nerf

tbh I think figure 8 doming is underexplored tech

[stoic garden]

i really think it's a buff more than a nerf

and it just makes glitch have more value... which doesn't seem too good for the game

[chilly granite]

tbh I think glitch being shared might be a bad idea

but I still think overlapping domes should merge and not have a crossover point

[sudden pewter]

Glitch should remain exclusive to Light as it’s one of their only teamplay gadgets

Until Heavy gets a fucking leash to keep those dumb fucking idiots within 20m so they don’t Naruto run into a 1v3

[chilly granite]

it would also be interesting if allied and enemy domes merged

[sudden pewter]

That would be dumb and stupid and stinky and I hate you and please consider uninstalling Reddit because while we disagree you’re still human and I care about you.

[indigo nexus]

How so?

Or never mind, I already answered the question in my head

It is interesting that I’ve never really seen anyone talk about that

[chilly granite]

I've said this before, but I think the "meta definers" in finals are pretty small brain compared to other games

there's so much tech and shit that is insanely underexplored in finals

[indigo nexus]

Compared to other things in the same game, I would say

But I don't think that's inherently problematic as the game is still very complex

[chilly granite]

I mean, I don't think it's inherently problematic, but I do think it leads to people underrating and having weird opinions

[zealous pike]

GUYS FUN FACT HEAVY IS THE BEST CLASS sorry egplant

[compact tundra]

Yo I've been trying dash dagger on roller, it's honestly pretty fun tho lights are ass to fight

[slow linden]

Then tell us funnyman,tell us your true point

[slow linden]

Other lights are the worst part about playing dagger

[compact tundra]

There ain't no use in arguing with him bro, he just dodges questions he doesn't

[compact tundra]

Yea, I've been trying dash dagger cause I didn't think it was really possible on roller but I hit a few flick stabs in cashball so I'm trying it out in games now

[slow linden]

You sound not fond of him,I wasn't aware that we were having an argument

[compact tundra]

Sorry thought you were. Yea I don't like the way he argues, was trying to have a discussion about aim assist earlier cause he called it broken but he wouldn't engage, went on to talk bout how much better M&K is despite just saying aim assist is broken and said people who own consoles are lazy cause they don't wanna research how to make a PC for the games they wanna play

Just overall don't like his takes or his response to criticism or rebuttals

[slow linden]

Truth be told I think grapple dagger has the most potential but probably requires inhuman levels of skill and zero forgiveness for mistakes

[chilly granite]

I mean, I agree aim assist is overtuned, but acting like evreyone has access or skills to get a pc is crazy

a lot of countries have insane taxes on pc components so a pc is like 3x more expensive than console

[compact tundra]

Didn't know that actually, just kinda backs up the console is budget thing. But even in the states it's not guaranteed whatever hardware you get for your PC will mesh well with the games you get and console has a few bonuses on top of price like how it runs on virtual machines, you know for us sailors of the seven seas

[slow linden]

Ah the lame ass aim assist is no skill argument,no aim assist is the bare minimum needed to compete with the precision of m&k and even then it doesn't quite match up,certain maneuvers that you can do on m&k are impossible on controller

[compact tundra]

In other games id agree like apex is notorious for M&K having better movement. But in the finals I'd actually argue roller has the movement advantage, but still yea M&K gets aim for sure given a good skill level

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

We do not discuss Apex here.

[compact tundra]

Tho I will say even if I disagree I respect eggplants view of aim assist. At least he tests it and doesn't just get mad cause a roller killed him

[compact tundra]

My bad king, I forgot to censor the game that shall not be named

[sudden pewter]

Thank you Habibi

[slow linden]

I mean,I'm kinda ass at the finals and I only play that on console,and then I go and play TF2 on my shitty pc and I'm suddenly pretty decent,I started playing both these games at the same time and they have similar ttk and weapon balancing for the most part(except tf2 weapon balancing is actually good) so I dunno,the annoying jitter peeking and other quality of life things that you can just do easily on m&k verses having to learn them as a skill or a tech on controller is very noticeable having played both

[compact tundra]

That's fair but because of things like dash (which takes directional inputs) and grapple (directional inputs change the grapple angle and arc) it gives rollers an advantage in movement, also our button layout just makes movement more intuitive 🚨IN MY OPINION🚨

[slow linden]

I honestly think if you like playing the finals on controller you NEED a controller with paddles most of the time

The extra two buttons make it so much easier to move

Imagine what one could do with like 40 more buttons

More buttons more precision,kinda just better if you ask me

[compact tundra]

Oh definitely, I have a razor wolverine with 4 paddles and 2 extra bumpers, fuckign amazing layout, tho razors build quality and tech support is dogshit

[slow linden]

I have a dogshit 30 dollar wired controller that I can't use semi autos with because the triggers don't work when you spam them even with the trigger locks turned on and you can't mess with this particular controller's settings on the Xbox at all but hey,two extra buttons I can actually evade gunfire

[compact tundra]

I would say if you can, save up for a wolverine, but I can't in good faith recommend razor with how shit their build quality is. Like it's by far the best designed controller I've ever seen or used.

• mouse click buttons
• trigger locks that turn your triggers into mouse click buttons
• great 4 paddle layout
• amazing extra bumpers, seriously having extra bumpers is a god send

But I've had 2 break on me with little abuse and my current one is also broken, just still usable. And updating them requires a PC and I don't even think the website works cause for the last update it gave you a url to use and the url straight up doesn't work, it gives you the razor oops message

[slow linden]

Lmao

I have a cheap razor mic on my pc and the funny lights settings have reset and stopped working several times,probably the settings for the mic I set originally got fucked as well

You could probably find a sturdier controller with those same features,good luck to you

[muted condor]

Any controller with paddles is a huge upgrade

The fact that paddles aren’t just standard for controllers is dumb

[compact tundra]

Big agree

[slow linden]

Even one that makes semi auto guns not work sometimes when half the weapons I like are semi auto?

[muted condor]

Also I wish consoles would let you bind things to the paddles instead of binding them to existing buttons

[muted condor]

Iv never heard of that before

[slow linden]

This piece of shit was 30 dollars

[muted condor]

Well you’re on Xbox so that’s your fist problem

[compact tundra]

I mean outside of gyro we have the best controller options

[muted condor]

Dirty greens

[slow linden]

I prefer xbox's corporate greed over Playstation's only reason I'd get a ps5 is for bloodborne and maybe demonsouls

[muted condor]

Jokes aside Iv played on bother over my time gaming and there isn’t a huge difference

I personally like PlayStation UI way more tho

[compact tundra]

I prefer Xbox because PlayStation is stinky and too anti consumer, but Xbox is the same now and looking at how Xbox is going that steam machine is looking mighty tasty

[muted condor]

Xbox might be worse than PlayStation now

Microsoft the last two years is doing everything to blow their own foot off

[compact tundra]

Probably is, that's why I'm jumping ship, steam machine hype train here I come

[slow linden]

There isn't,but the little differences are why I prefer one over the other,community too,a good amount of Playstation players like to team kill me on helldivers,they do it more than a couple times and I team kill them and don't reinforce,usually fuck off and stare at rocks until they leave or the mission runs out of time

[muted condor]

I’m also interested in that because I want to play some pc games but I’m not a computer guy at all and getting one doesn’t interest me

[slow linden]

The end of legacy console minecraft was the beginning of their long list of mistakes

It was so peak

[compact tundra]

Honestly I just want working hardware that doesn't have a chance to shit the bed at any time and I want mods, single player games are so much better on PC and steam machine gives me a window into that

[compact tundra]

Fucking fat agree, legacy was by far the best version

[muted condor]

Watching my pc friends have to spend a hour every week adjusting settings and fixing stuff just to play a normal game turned me off from getting a pc lol

I know part of that is poor optimization from devs but there is still way to much shit that breaks on PCs for my taste

[slow linden]

Legacy console minecraft was almost indistinguishable from Java too,just a few updates behind and a few features removed or limited,we could've had Java on console eventually

[compact tundra]

Bro even then with the difference it was superior to pocket edition in every way. I am still baffled by why they took pocket editions design and used it for bedrock rather than the near perfect legacy edition. Honestly 4J should've just been handed bedrock and told to run that version and mojang run java

[slow linden]

Yeah I don't know why bedrock exists other than for microtransactions

It's not even that much more profitable,why get realms plus when you can just get a server on Java

[indigo nexus]

cross platform

[slow linden]

Could have done it with java

Modern consoles can probably run it

[indigo nexus]

If memory serves not all consoles support it, but Java edition just does not run well enough

Needs to run on various kinds of mobile devices too.

[slow linden]

They don't support it at all

Legacy console was a trimmed down version of it though

[indigo nexus]

I mean Java in general

[indigo nexus]

Nah, it was similar feature-wise but was completely different technically

[indigo nexus]

There would probably be issues using 4J's version, since they may not have easily been able to obtain the rights to do so (I don't know exactly what the deal was, but they didn't own 4J or their work) and would be working with an engine they didn't make, and would have to redo it anyway as it was written for 32 bit systems and optimised specifically for use (and multiplayer within) the specific consoles it released for, so it makes sense that they took what I would guess was the easier option.

[slow linden]

I mean go from infinite to limited worlds and it'll probably be very different

[slow linden]

So pure laziness got it

[indigo nexus]

that's quite an odd takeaway

[slow linden]

The company owes its customers the superior product,anything less is treachery

[indigo nexus]

calling attempting to do something efficiently laziness just seems silly

we don't know that it would have been at all better if they did use legacy console as the base

there'd have been the same design goals and monetisation

[slow linden]

It ran a whole lot better that's for certain

[indigo nexus]

It was a smaller game that ran much smaller worlds. I doubt it was as optimised

(not that I actually know of course, I assume it wasn't as thoroughly parallelised as bedrock is?)

I did play both versions when bedrock came out, iirc they had the same max render distance and both ran fine on my xbox, so there's not really anything to make a judgement with there from my experience

[slow linden]

It probably could've been optimized as well with time,both played pretty much the same when bedrock came out

[indigo nexus]

sure, but then you haven't really saved any time when the work was already done via pocket edition

[ashen hawk]

Here's the daily dose of wacky gadget ideas:

• Jetpack for heavy
• Exploding boomerange
• Glider

[compact tundra]

Bro this was my first time trying out the dash dagger 😭

• red barreled
• rpg'd
• winched
• shot by 2 people
• and set on fire

They really didn't need all that bro

@sudden pewter sent his sleeper agents after me for daring to try dagger 😢

[stoic garden]

lmao

[sudden pewter]

I’ll do it again

[compact tundra]

No need bro, I'll stick to double barrel, lesson learned

[sudden pewter]

I’m sending a war elephant

[compact tundra]

I think I'ma try the other melee next that I don't really play, so I think spear is really the only one besides dagger. I'm guessing I ask snale for spear tips?

Then onto the cursed weapons, bloom weapons, God I am not excited for D-eagles and throwing knives

[chilly granite]

I mean I think the argument that controller players are entitled to be competative with MNK on aim is illogical

a trackpad, rollerball, thinkpad nipple player is at a severe disadvantage compared to mnk players, or controller players lmao

skill based matchmaking exists and should put you in games that feel fair regardless of input device; if your skill levl iwth a given input device is worse, you get enemies who are weaker

aim assist should exist to help controller players expereince a game that is equivalent to mnk - but it doesn't do that; the aim assist doesn't help when you get dived by a melee, which is when controllers are at the biggest disadvantage compared to mnk

melee is far better vs contorller playes because you can just go behind them and then again and again (sword/dash) lol

and the aim assit does nothing to remedy this at all

I think that's probaly why melees are underpowered, because aim assit doesn't help controllers fight them and melee is overpowered vs controller

(sword best example)

[slow linden]

Got it so in the cross platform game you want console players to be free kills for you PC overlords to farm out and shit on even more than they already are understood

Just say you want bot lobbies

[chilly granite]

skill based matchmaking exists

controller playres wont be free kills for pc players, because pc players and controller players will be in matches of equivalent skill level

now it may be the case that without aim assist, controller players are incapable of suprassing a certain rank

but they will not be "free kills" for anyone

SBMM also exists in unranked modes

although it's not very reliable

[slow linden]

Skill based matchmaking prevents bad players from improving,you're seriously not talking about turning this game into cod are you?

[chilly granite]

that's an entirely different argument and the game already has SBMM

[slow linden]

In ranked and only ranked

[chilly granite]

I'm 99% sure that it has SBMM on unranked modes, but I don't have a precise source

[slow linden]

No,cause there are ruby players in my lobbies and I'm not that good so this is pure speculation

[chilly granite]

that will happen anyway because the player pool is so small

[slow linden]

Unless the sbmm is as bad as cods,and you get like one or two wins and then they slam you against the best players to ever live then maybe,but I doubt the game has sbmm in casual,they've stated explicitly that it doesn't have it

The only good shooter with sbmm is hunt showdown

[chilly granite]

that's not sbmm that's ebmm

[slow linden]

Ebmm is better

[chilly granite]

engaugment based matchmaking

you get like one or two wins and then they slam you against the best players to ever live then maybe,but I doubt

ebmm

[slow linden]

Noooo elimination based matchmaking

The only measurement hunt uses for its mmr is kd and bounty extractions

[chilly granite]

NOT HUNT

[slow linden]

You said that after I talked about hunt,reply directly to the point you are arguing against,and I know it's engagement based matchmaking but cod calls it skill based matchmaking even though it's not,do you think they're the only game that lies about sbmm?

[indigo nexus]

There are nowhere near enough ruby players in casual lobbies for them to be matched with people near their rank.

[chilly granite]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2024/01/30/activision-finally-breaks-its-silence-around-call-of-duty-sbmm-and-matchmaking/

i was typing when u typed about hunt

[slow linden]

I know this,but if there was sbmm then they'd simply never find a match

[indigo nexus]

Untrue, that would only be the case if it was very strict SBMM, which it isn’t

[slow linden]

Strict sbmm is the only sbmm that sort of works

[chilly granite]

there's a lot of ways to tune an sbmm

but we know embark doesn't do strict because plats get rubies in lobby

[indigo nexus]

Depends on how you define “works”, but it sounds like you admit your claim was incorrect via this.

[chilly granite]

I mean, i don't care if it's what works, it's wildly off topic

it doesn't exist in the game we are playing

and it' snot relevent to aim assit

I don't need bad controller players to farm bots, I can just farm weak playres in general?

[slow linden]

The whole point of sbmm is "fair" matchups,if even one ruby ends up in a casual lobby of bronzes and unranked the game might as well not have it at all

[indigo nexus]

It’s enough that a very low tier player and a very high tier player will have very different lobbies, typically.

[chilly granite]

I mean, that does happen constantly, I see high diamond andrubies in my tdm playing against lvl 10s

[indigo nexus]

This stance just doesn’t make sense, that is not a meaningful discriminant for whether it would be helpful or not

[chilly granite]

but it's because i'm like top 60 tdm player, so the SBMM eestimates me to be equivalent to the ruby, so our teams are equal value

[slow linden]

And yet I see plats ruby's and diamonds all the time,see a lot of amethyst badges too,speaking of which why the hell are there no amethyst weapons and or gadget skins

[slow linden]

It just shouldn't happen if the system is working as designed,so either it doesn't work or it doesn't exist,not that hard to grasp

[indigo nexus]

The single clearest piece of evidence that I’m aware of for this, is how console players almost don’t exist in casual lobbies of decent players.

Further than that, I’ve had rather bad friends who became very frustrated queuing with me because they would be unable to perform decently in even casual games alongside me, but I saw their gameplay in their own queues and they generally did fine, while I experienced the same thing myself queuing with ruby/diamond players. Which is just anecdotal, but I’ve never heard an account of someone who has experience playing with friends of very different skill levels who did not think they experienced the same thing, which is vaguely convincing.

[chilly granite]

one type of SBMM assigns a value to every player, and then makes teams of equal value

it esimates me to be equal in value to a ruby, becaue I@m a top tdm player

so the ruby team has ruby and a bunch of lvl 10-30s, and my team has me and a bunch of 10-30s

[indigo nexus]

And of course lots of the rubies who use smurf accounts talk about the pre-ranked grind where it takes a few games to get out of the “noob lobbies”

[compact tundra]

Actually I will say the aim slowdown helps massively against melee in a butterfly effect kind of way. Since the aim slowdown is the main form of Aim assist in this game and by far the strongest, it allows roller players to crank their sensitivity up which allows them to flick behind themselves and to melee's a lot easier. Typically you'd have to have lower sens cause aim snap and auto tracking are the main forms of AA and high sens can mess with those, but with aim slowdown it actually encourages you to crank the sens cause it'll micro adjust for you as long as you track within the ballpark of what's needed

[chilly granite]

hmm, I'm so bad with high sens on controler, mine was too low to expeinrece that, but I can see that

[indigo nexus]

Oh, and that we straight up had confirmation of it for world tour. Which doesn’t apply to all casual modes by default, but it’d make sense if it ran on the same system.

[compact tundra]

That actually might affect your testing a bit since lower sens means the aim assist will be stronger cause you can't pull away as hard, but your testing is still valid given I know players who play on low sens

[slow linden]

The only good "sbmm" system that works btw

[chilly granite]

I did test the strenght of it with higher sens too, and althugh it was weaker, it was still very powerful

[chilly granite]

that would not work in cashout beuacse so mcuh is based around vault manipulation and such like

[indigo nexus]

Obviously not. A good SBMM system is game-dependant, and ranks according to the metrics which most closely represent success from the players’ points of view.

But that is a similar system to how ranked works, it just looks at match results rather than combat score or something, which makes sense

[slow linden]

It wouldn't work for ranked yes because ranked has to be much stricter, but for casual it's perfect

[indigo nexus]

We do not know what metrics the casual matchmaking considers, so for all we know that’s exactly what it does, though I doubt it

[chilly granite]

tdm doesn't use KD for sure or I would not be valued anywhere nearly as highly as I am lmao

my kd is pretty ass

[slow linden]

I don't typically find even slightly worse matches even if I kill a ruby player so I'm pretty certain it is completely random

[indigo nexus]

this sentence is just incoherent, that just means it doesn’t get majorly re-evaluated per kill

[slow linden]

Per death too,I don't exactly die a whole lot either

[indigo nexus]

if you were consistently winning against those teams then I expect you would notice a difference, unless you’re joining queues that were literally too sparse for a noticeable difference to be possible

[slow linden]

Some days I get queued against nothing but Adderall junkies and lose 9 matches in a row sometimes I win 9 matches in a row against malformed fetuses who've probably only touched a controller or keyboard once

[chilly granite]

I'm pretty sure tdm is winrate becuase I have a fairly good tdm winarte because I tend to either feed a lot or carry, and I carry more rounds than I feed

ty

[slow linden]

I don't play tdm unless I have challenges or want to level up a weapon

Only cashout and quick cash,and point break,I actually really like point break I think they did a really good job on pointbreak other than the border exploits

I think the games balance however should purely consider cashout

That's the main gamemode that should be the sole contribution to nerfs and buffs

Of weapons and gadgets and specs

[chilly granite]

are you solo queue or trio queue?

[compact tundra]

Bro I've been saying this for like a month, point break is the most balanced mode for items. There isn't an item that is just outright bad, every gun, spec, and gadget has a place and a use case

[chilly granite]

if you're playing cashout, then there's 100% confirmed skill based matchmaking

[slow linden]

Usually trio,the rare occasion I solo queue I play way better though,not that it's relevant to the discussion

[chilly granite]

sounds like ur team synergy sucks lol

but yeah, there's a lot of reasons why perforamnce and effecitveness can be variable

it's always worse around the weekend, for example, where you get more people hwo have less acruate sbmm due to a smaller sample size of games played

[slow linden]

I main goo flame,the only time I play super well is when I'm harassing backlines and singling out stragglers and poke campers who are sitting across the map,when I try to do this with my team though it usually gets me killed

[sudden pewter]

Real

[chilly granite]

tbh that's mostly a refleciton of cashout

no items are really bad, it's mostly just that they're worse than others

and filling slightly different niches is more powerful in point break where you have the ability to bring a little everythgin

[slow linden]

Mgl and spear are bad,mgl may not be horrible but it could certainly use a small rework

Just make the grenades always explode on impact with players and never bounce off of or go through them

All it needs

Still want bouncing off terrain and buildings though

Just player,and maybe turrets

[sudden dove]

The Model is so weird

[marsh cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-gif-22748569

[slow linden]

Cerb feels way better to use,model is best used as a support weapon

Cerb is just a better support weapon sure,but model isn't unusable,just kinda undertuned,still hasn't fully recovered from being gutted in the past even after some small buffs here and there,might need a rework but I'm not convinced

[chilly granite]

should i csarry thermal bore or breach charge as a breach tool for reserves

lets give this a try

[slow linden]

Thermal bore is better for breaching but can be used to drop cashout,as well as having anti gas utility,breach is better for dropping cashout but can breach

What do you want more,what do you do more?

[chilly granite]

I usually prefer the qol of thermal bore (ranged usage, small delay for bow draw) but I'll try breaches, I'm a lot better udnerstanding cashout now, so I think it'll go better than last time

[slow linden]

Good luck

[chilly granite]

good time to try it tbh

[slow linden]

Solid team

[chilly granite]

nice

[slow linden]

We love(hate) full assault rifle teams

The same applies to smgs

[chilly granite]

I got 5/6 kills for both cashouts we won

my team 😢

but I also didn't make any good use of breach charge lol

I shuo'dve put on on the box and knocked it over, it would've helped a lot on one fo them

[slow linden]

Should note that breach is better for stalling and thermal is better for stealing (sometimes)

[chilly granite]

man

I had all 3 enemies on literally 80hp or less each

and my team sat on roof and dont psuh

we won if they push

one cerb shot would've cleaned it

we got third, +450, but we could've had second very easily

tbh we shoul'dve jsut let pink have the box and fought the other teams, they were both worse than us by a lot

[slow linden]

Never expect roof campers to play smart or risky at all,they just want to sit and poke and farm kills

[chilly granite]

ik it's just annoying

and if the enemy team didn't push as 3 then I would've gotten all 3 kills lmao

[slow linden]

If my teammates are roof campers I usually demo their perch or throw a Pyro nade at their heads

I despise when people are passive bitches,either push and win,die in glorious battle,or have me ruin your fun or kill you

[chilly granite]

we have plat

don't know if I get 1st or 2nd this game, but either way, I'm plat

[slow linden]

Awful team again?

[chilly granite]

not great but not bad

I had to carry too much though, 2nd round I had 15 kills teammates, 3/4

my back hurts and it's not the arthritus! it's the carrying!

[slow linden]

Fair enough

[chilly granite]

wtf is this 5th seed

[chilly granite]

ruby lobby lol

[random depot]

The weapon options with cloak over dashes/grapple is significantly lower.

[random depot]

I had one where I couldn't lose xD like last place was +120

[chilly granite]

hahahha

[chilly granite]

ehhh

if you want a given rank, then yes

[random depot]

I only play ranked

[chilly granite]

if you care about having a specific medal by your name in ranked

if you're willing ot be bronze, you can use anything with anything

[random depot]

Well a caveman can beat his wife with a rock, doesn't make Grug right

Grug still needs to be held accountable for his stupidity

[chilly granite]

and the same is true of grapple anyway, just less so

[random depot]

Grapple has more map dependence

On some it shines on others theres rare use cases besides people who put 100s of hours into it

[chilly granite]

I do tend to fuck people up on kyoto
but on any map, grapple bow is rough

[random depot]

Grapple bow is S tier fun

[chilly granite]

yeah 100% most fun loadout in the game

but there's so many situations where dash bow is miles better lmao

[random depot]

Shhhh

[random depot]

Grapple bow has aura

[chilly granite]

nulliifer helps those a lot

[random depot]

God I miss motion sensor on light

[chilly granite]

idk how mnk lights can stand doing the fucking sutpid m11 bhop

[random depot]

Because its awesome

😎

[chilly granite]

recoil smooothing should not work on vertical mouse movemnts

[random depot]

Thats an absolutely insane take but ok

[chilly granite]

it's very op but it feels fucking bad to do and its so stupid

I mean, I also low key think recoil smoothing is for lowskills kekw

[random depot]

@sudden pewter my brain hurts again help

[chilly granite]

I come from a land called counterstrike, wehre you have to actualyl aim your gun

[random depot]

Oh no

[random depot]

CS aiming is boring and talentless, its just memorising a spray pattern on an optimal gun.

CS is also equivalent to Chess in that its a decided game with no room to stand out

It becomes whos memory is better, little skill expression

[sudden pewter]

Can’t help you bro this guy went on a several paragraph rant on how the game should be balanced around the bow

[chilly granite]

I didn't say the game should be balanced around the bow but ok

[random depot]

People who think Counter strike has a high skill ceiling are lobotomised aim labs babies

I like chess which is why I hate that the comparison works

[chilly granite]

m11 bhopping has a skill ceiling in the floor but ok

[random depot]

Ok LobotoBert

What if they made it mandatory to pass a basic aptitude test to be allowed to use social media 🤔

Oh maybe the world wouldn't be so dim

[chilly granite]

forgive me for not being as intelligent as the man who immediately resorts to adhom

[random depot]

I just cant be asked to deconstruct that level of stupidity, but yes I do often go to adhominum

Saves my mental health

[chilly granite]

if m11 bhopping didn't eat the m11's recoil i'd have more consideration of it's skill level

[random depot]

You in X amount of years playing have yet to learn the distinction between preference and skill expression.

Additionally, because of forcing a suboptimal playstyle you developed unhealthy biases that bleed into every statement

[chilly granite]

what's the skill expression? tracking aim and pressing space a bunch?

[sudden pewter]

I kinda lean with bow on this ngl

[random depot]

Grossly over simplifying doesnt counter my point 😒

[random depot]

I mean im not saying it takes metric tons of skill

[chilly granite]

I'm not oversimplifying, I'm asking a quqestion

that's why I think it's got less room for skill expression, it's to me, simply those two elements; that isn't a high level of skill expressison

There's areas you can argue that finals is more skillful than CS, but bhop m11 isn't one lmao

[chilly granite]

plesae, illuminate me

[random depot]

Tracking during rapid movement while timing your jumps is definitely higher skill than CS

But not by much

Again its not like im arguing you need to be God's gift to the game to do it

[chilly granite]

Firstly, saying that it's higher skill than the entire game is blatantly false

secondly, cs has bhopping, which is more skillful than in the finals

and thirdly, a spray transfer, where you need to correctly flick with incredibly speed from one enemy, to another, who are likely moving extremely quickly, while being mindful of the point in the recoil pattern your currently in, is way more skill expression than simple trakcing during rapid movement

[random depot]

Theres no rapid movement in CS

[slow linden]

True

[chilly granite]

how much/waht cs have you played?

[random depot]

What parts are you agreeing wiht him on 🤔

[sudden pewter]

Idk anymore I saw the word BHopping and kinda zoned out

[chilly granite]

you realize that cs's default movement speed is the same a light right? and that higher speeds are available to skilled players via bhopping?

about***

[random depot]

The tldr of cs is its Timmy's first FPS

[sudden pewter]

Didn’t read the full debate so I’m not going to cast a vote but I’ll soapbox briefly and say there’s definitely value in deeper understanding of mechanics or tech. I couldn’t live without my Medium Duo that covers my statue with a goo grenade PRIOR to defibbing me, not sure if that means he’s hit the defib skill ceiling but it’s definitely an expression of skill/understanding

[chilly granite]

man if you watched people play csgo with 100fov i bet your mind would be broken

csgo is played on 74.7 fov in the finals, for reference

[random depot]

I played OW at a level where I regularly scrimmed Pros

I dont think anything in CSGO is hard to understand

[chilly granite]

lmao i'm so impressed you played the deaddest game to ever dead

[random depot]

The conversation has ended as you have chosen intellectual dishonesty

[sudden pewter]

Tbf CSGO isn’t exactly complex, but skilled play is still skilled play

[random depot]

True

[chilly granite]

which comment do you refer to?

[random depot]

CS still has skill expression

[sudden pewter]

Aye

CSGO still has a skill ceiling, even if the ceiling doesn’t involve goo grenade placement or RPG efficacy

[random depot]

Absolutely

I like visual clarity in my games so that does have me biased. (I mean visual clarity toward what my item/weapon/ability does when I press the button

[sudden pewter]

I was about to say, Visual Clarity and OW do not mix

[chilly granite]

@random depot I recorded some footage at csgo fov so you can have a reference of what the finals but csgo would looklike, so you understand why I say finals movement isn't faster

[random depot]

Yeah you eventually can see through it all

[random depot]

But its A LOT of visual clutter

[random depot]

Out of curiosity what do you think the healthiest meta A game like OW can have?

[sudden pewter]

I haven’t played OW since release and the first Halloween event because witch mercy had me shooting goo

I’m not too familiar with its modern era meta or hero balance so I’m not sure I can make an informed opinion or argument I’d willingly back

[random depot]

Most coaches think dive is the good boy comp

Id be inclined to agree from first hand experience

[sudden pewter]

Dive is relatively strong regardless of game, but with OW’s hero design and counter culture I don’t believe there will ever be a “healthy meta”

X is strong so people choose Y. Y becomes popular so more people choose Z. And so on

[random depot]

Its all preference really, im a Disrupt Specialist so I exist on the fringes of the community as theres not many of us

Its a subset of dive involving a far more execution heavy playstyle. As in setup doesn't really exist in the traditional sense

Only a few heroes can do it, and the synergy in a team environment is built on ideas you'd need first hand experience doing to see

All that to say, disruption is a fundamental skill in the finals which is why I love it so much

Its like finding the perfect piece of toast for your home made butter

[chilly granite]

i'm having a hard time finding csgo clips where you can clearly see the movement speed, since guns have poor moving accuracy, so adad spam and shooting at stopped points is meta

and audio is actually good in cs so walking is ipomrtant to minimise sound signature

but here's the finals if it was csgo fov and no adsing

not great examples of movement from my enemies but i'm gonna blame it being 5am

https://youtu.be/EuPSkOUd1rQ?si=aZIeHnQiW7bcZlGU&t=121

this is probably the best csgo example, look at teh speed of the last enemy moving from right to left, before the enemy crouches again

most of the time people are sneaking so they don't leak intel or just straitght adad spam so it's impossible ot see the movement speed properly

clip at 3:33 is a good example too, but at further range

3:48 too

another thing that can make it unclear is that csgo has tagging, where being shot slows movement speed briefly

you can see that pretty obviously with how they slow down when he hits them at 348

Dash is substantially faster than csgo movement speed, but normal movement is only very slightly faster, and that's on light; heavy and medium are substantilaly slower

I haven't measured acceleration speed in finals so idk what it actaully is

or how it compares to csgo

at least in vibes based testing, accel seems a little lower than csgo, but ground friction is way higher?

I do think low ground friction is higher skill than high ground friction for sure

[chilly granite]

what level have you played cs at, to be able to make this judgment?

[white pilot]

What are the strengths of the Famas?

[hardy dust]

Good burst damage, range, damage per mag and overall ttk

Its pretty much slightly above average at everything while not having any weaknesses, which makes it quite strong

[white pilot]

I see

[ionic sparrow]

Guys does anybody have a skin showcase for the gasgranade better nature skin i have been looking everywhere but couldn't find it

[indigo nexus]

Its TTK is pretty poor as far as medium weapons go

Not by a lot, but it’s surely not better than average

graph!

it perhaps did meet that criteria at its peak but it got nerfed like 4 times in a row since then

[hardy dust]

Fair, but the ttk is still good all things considered

Technically above average if you count every medium weapon 🤓

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. I think that depends on how you consider them

Its range used to be in line with the FCAR, but is now kinda eh as well

[chilly granite]

i think the power of the famas is quality of life

being able to peek and repeek rather than holding a peek is powerful

burst dps is more powerful than pure dps

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, that’s the biggest thing in my eyes

For the most part medium balance is pretty close these days I think. Notably more than the other classes, I think.

[chilly granite]

yes

I think most of mediums stuff is overtuned, and it should all be closer to the models power level, but all of the weapons are super close in powerlevel relative to one another

[indigo nexus]

For the next grand major I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw many weapons get a lot of use for them

Melees are awkward as ever, of course.

[chilly granite]

I think with the cerb buff, excluding melee, model is ofically mediums worst wepaon

[indigo nexus]

Hmm, maybe… I’m not really sure

It’s weird, model has gotten so many buffs since its nerfs but it’s still considered a bad - ok weapon

Personally I was never good with it to begin with so I can’t really judge it myself.

[chilly granite]

tbh I think it's perfectly balanced for medium, but it's def less powerful than the rest of mediums guns

[indigo nexus]

You mean to say you’d like it if the rest of medium’s kit was brought down to it?

[chilly granite]

yeah

and buff the gadgets and specs to compensate

mediums gadgets and specs are firmly ass tier

[indigo nexus]

I don’t really have a strong opinion on that, but since the repeater’s been nerfed, I wonder if some minor buffs to the underperforming specs/gadgets across the class are now in order

[chilly granite]

Data reshaper is firmly mediums best gadget (excluding defib) and nobody uses it because goo grenade is better lmao

[indigo nexus]

But in another sense, I like that medium allows the shared gadgets to actually get some use..?

I enjoy running frag and goo grenade, but it's hard to justify them on other classes (sometimes, loadout-dependant as goo grenade works with anything)

[chilly granite]

Medium relying on shared gadgets for power, makes them more replaceable too; that's why it's easy to swap a medium for a second heavy and have a goo gun instead of goo grenade and have much stronger actual gadgets

Or even hypothetically, swap the medium for a second light who has the goo grenade instead

A lot of the class specific gadgets need to be tuned down to the level of generic gadgets probably though

H+, RPG, dome, C4, gateway, just all of lights gadgets lmao, are crazy op

[chilly granite]

Medium still suffers from this because jump pad and defib are so important, so you only actually get 1 slot to play with

I do think medium should probably steal breach charge and light should keep thermal bore though, I'm not sure why medium doesn't get to have a decent breach gadget?

H+ should be a backup plan if you have a demat medium and want healing, not the primary healing output of a team with healbeam

[indigo nexus]

Fair, and this naturally leads them to being boxed into just a couple of really good things and not really anything else holding them there

And I guess I’m fine with it because that lines up with what I like to use, but another configuration could be better

[chilly granite]

It's also why I have an issue with embark reverting the glitch grenade nerf to make light relevent in pro again

The class should not rely on a single overpowered gadget for its entire relevance to high tier matches

Which is the defib problem

Basically only heavy is "real" and medium and light only exist to make the heavy maximally powerful right now lol

Gateway jumppad to ferry the heavy

Defib healbeam h+ to fatten the heavy

Glitch grenade to weaken the enemy heavy

And goo grenade so the medium doesn't feed and can block steals

All classes should be viable choices with pure generic gadgets imho

But that's not even remotely true now

Not all on the same team, but with good gadgets on teamamtes to support, a light should be able to take goo frag flash

But idk how you fix that

I'm really tired I need to sleep I been awake some 23 hours now

Sorry I'm rambling lol

But yeah, medium guns should all be balanced to power level of model

Matter needs a buff

Medium gadgets and specs need buffs

And heavy and light gadgets need a nerf

That's my current dream scenario

Also, funny gadgets should be buffed and boring ones nerfed

Gravity vortex, big buff

H+, glitch, big nerf

Give me gravity vortex meta please embark

[rocky lance]

wrong chat maybe but anyone have a method for running windowed or borderless fullscreen on stretched?

[chilly granite]

Don't use stretched

Stretched is archaic way to reduce fov in games that don't have fov slider

This game has fov slider

What fov do you want to play on, and what resolution do you want to stretch from?

100fov 4:3 is 83fov 16:9

I was streaming to my friend who plays 4:3 stretched and he asked me if I was playing 4:3 stretched lol

I played 83fov 16:9

[rocky lance]

im playing on 1920x1440 i really like it

[chilly granite]

try full resolution and 83 or 84 fov

the mathematically correct equivalent of 4:3 stretched is 83.5

[rocky lance]

ill try that then, i just get more frames on stretched

[chilly granite]

using a lower render resolution will have the same result, and it will give you more fidelity in the horisontal than vertical plane, which will be better

would oyu rather see up and down more clearly, or left and right

stretched makes up and down clear, left and right blurry

lower render resolution/dlss resoiltuion/taa resolution, makes up and down an equal % blurry, but it will be less blurry in total

[rocky lance]

makes sense

I personally play without anti aliasing, ive always preferred that for fps

im gonna test native res at 90 fov to start

[chilly granite]

90 will not feel the same as 4:3 stretched, only 83 or 84

I also like playing without AA, the render scaling is functional

[frosty hull]

Yooo

[slow linden]

I love ac6 so fucking much,wish this game had cool energy weapons

Type of shit I wish heavy could shoot

@poppanickles#0000 it seems is no longer with us

[broken mulch]

ac6 is literally my favorite game

but the pvp is so ass dude

godawful fromsoft netcode, promotion to s rank is literally hell, and idk abt now but when i stopped playing bvo got nerfed into the ground and the only viable lightweight was ratting

and i was running double melee like a clown

story was great tho, not a fan of the third route as much narratively as the first 2 but it was still cool

[slow linden]

I don't touch ranked,full of basement dwelling missile rat and kite builds

[broken mulch]

yeaa i stopped like a year ago

i was running pulse blade pilebunker and zimm/wuerger(swapped sometimes) and some missile launcher

[slow linden]

I do mainly friendly matches with silly or hilariously over the top tank builds and melee

[broken mulch]

got to s rank promos and never made it past, 8/10 wins required against other current s ranks is absolutely wild

[slow linden]

I still need to B rank and get the logs from every mission to get Walter's sword and the coral shield

[broken mulch]

gonna be real i used a guide on those logs

but s ranking isnt too hard if u beat the game

[slow linden]

Try to copy the beam tank build I was using in one of the clips,might serve you well

[broken mulch]

i js really like melee in p much all games, if i ever have the option i will use it

[slow linden]

I used a guide but doing them all at once makes me get bored really fast

[broken mulch]

main sword in the finals too

[slow linden]

You like the energy shotgun katars?

[broken mulch]

the wuergers? i had them on my double melee build sometimes
swapped between that and the zimm

[slow linden]

I had bad cook on a double melee build,usually used double moonlight or laser lance into pilebunker

[broken mulch]

speaking of melee, is it js me or does melee aim assist fuck with my camera sometimes?
cause sometimes after an m1 i js cant turn my camera

[slow linden]

I want them to add a pilebunker to this game and give to heavy

[broken mulch]

i dont wanna a lance up my ass

[slow linden]

Most people advise that you turn it off

[broken mulch]

alr ill do that then

any reason why?

[slow linden]

You end up missing a lot because melee aim assist is genuinely detrimental

It's poorly designed and you basically have to not be trying to hit the enemy for the aim assist to work correctly

[broken mulch]

does it affect qm too?

[slow linden]

It'd be really funny,and we need more gimmick weapons

[broken mulch]

qm combos are so much harder with the camera lock

[slow linden]

A charge up melee weapon would be cool

[broken mulch]

thats sledge tho right?

[slow linden]

Uncertain but probable

[slow linden]

Sledge isn't chargeable as much as I wish it was

You can't just enter a stance and hold the overhead and wait

Would be cool,but can't.

You click the overhead button and it just chucks that shit

After a small but noticeable delay

Small enough to just dash out of it

Dagger is the only weapon with a hold and release stance attack

[broken mulch]

got it

[slow linden]

Also its been tainted by winchclaw so i refuse to use it,it's one of the weapons they nerfed around winchclaw instead of just removing the loathsome parasite

[visual raptor]

why do people get so worked up about winch

just treat it like flamethrower

[wide barn]

I love the pyro grenade

[ashen hawk]

username checks out

valid tho, they shouldve given winch a mechanic where u could somehow break the claw before it fully pulls u towards the user.
smalleer range didnt help, its still really annoying

[spring spear]

you can manipulate cashout with winch so that doesnt really help

not to mention the range is way further than flamethrower's and guarantees a lot more damage

[visual raptor]

id agree that that wouldve been too strong until shields were changed to stop winch

[slow linden]

I don't care that it's unbalanced,if you were paying attention I care that they were nerfing things that synergize with winch rather than nerfing or removing winch,I am a heavy main,winchclaw existing has done far more damage to heavys balance for the wrong reasons,embark nerfed around the problem rather than nerfing the problem,the parasite hollowed out a 10th of heavys arsenal

[white pilot]

what's the counter to sword and duel blades? I've used lockbolt, i stood onto mines and grenades so that they take damage, CL-40, flamethrower, evasive dash, and i die pretty much every time still. Is there a tactic i'm missing? something i'm doing wrong?

[slow linden]

It actively keeps certain weapons from being buffed too

[slow linden]

Sword and duel blades are hard countered by flamethrower, flamethrower is countered by taking height

Could also use double barrel and insta kill them

[white pilot]

yes but i keep getting lights that kill me before i kill them, leaving them with 1 hp. My aim is decent with flamethrower, it's just that they kill me way too fast

[white pilot]

ah i see. What about duel blades though? I cant double barrel that if they guard

[slow linden]

Incorporate goo gun,Pyro nade or rpg into your combos

Or Pyro mine,that's the big thing everyone uses with flamethrower

[white pilot]

alrighty, i'll try to do that

[slow linden]

It has a hard time blocking shotguns unless they perfectly time it I believe

Could be wrong

[chilly granite]

btw do we know what heppend to googs and gooking?

[muted condor]

Looks like they might have gotten banned

[stoic garden]

WHAT

why...

[muted condor]

No clue but neither are in the server anymore

[indigo nexus]

they let the goo get the better of them

[slender fiber]

sword

[analog pewter]

let sledge hold the right click above their head like serious sam

[slow linden]

I've wanted this since the beta

[analog pewter]

sledge needs it

[slow linden]

Genuine gibberish Gen alpha speak

[slender fiber]

my bad gng

fr fr ong no chud

[slow linden]

Not very usable anymore,the sword dash moved two feet now,only way to get good use out of it is catapulting yourself into people's hitbox with dash spec and spamming mouse1

[indigo nexus]

Sword dash moves you further than ever, it was only buffed in that regard in relatively recent seasons

[stoic garden]

me when lunge jumping is faster than running by a good margin

[slow linden]

Feels worse,feels like I move two feet

[indigo nexus]

Well it’s not, you can move around very fast with it

[stoic garden]

i think the timing changed

[slow linden]

Don't you need a sloped surface for that?

[stoic garden]

no you can do it anywhere

[indigo nexus]

M1 spam isn’t very functional against players with better aim, but sword in general ends up not being great at that point

[stoic garden]

my friend travels around maps very fast with it in fact

[indigo nexus]

M2 is just very punishing when you mess it up

[slow linden]

I tried when they gutted sword and it didn't work,could only kinda do it on sloped roofs

[stoic garden]

the timing is kinda hard but it goes crazy when you figure it out

it's about before the end of the lunge iirc, havent done it recently

[slow linden]

The sword nerf made sword more annoying and less skillful somehow,but it also just made it kinda worse

[slow linden]

By the way goo king is no longer with us

[indigo nexus]

Depends on what you mean by skillful. It’s harder to use now, but it seems to have a lower skill ceiling.

[stoic garden]

i saw

[slow linden]

He unadded everyone and left the server : (

[stoic garden]

many such cases

[slow linden]

Lower skill floor,higher skill ceiling for less reward

Genuinely unneeded nerf I never found it super annoying

[indigo nexus]

Depends on what you mean by skill floor

With how I use it it’s lower, but with how most people use it it’s higher

For the M2 at least, you could argue M1 on its own got slightly easier to use

[slow linden]

Entry level use

I feel like they always nerf anything that isn't an ar or smg way too hard most of the time

[stoic garden]

they always nerf everything too hard or too little

[indigo nexus]

Mm, often. Definitely not always imo

[stoic garden]

i love hyperboles

[white pilot]

Is the 93r still good?

[compact tundra]

Do I see we're talking about sword movement in here boys

[random depot]

Let me fly on hammer as heavy like Thor

Or at least let me throw team mates in like a human jump pad

[sudden pewter]

Played flamethrower for the first time

[analog pewter]

how did it feel

[chilly granite]

hhh I just lost my lsat game because my medium didn't steal why the other light was fighting heavy, instead he felt the need to press demat

think

press demat again

think more

throw a goo grenade

think

steal

he could've just naked stole

also, the double demat, put him on the same floor as the heavy, which then made the heavy able to kill him

he was 3rd floor heavy 1st floor

[sudden pewter]

Bad.

[rich flame]

man i love goo gun but it really shouldnt be able to shut down players by shooting at them

[analog pewter]

my biggest problem w/it is that it has really poor hit feedback so you just kinda have to have faith your flame particles are actually landing and you're not just hitting afterburn ticks

[sudden pewter]

Yeah

[analog pewter]

they need to add a more distinct fiery whoosh sound i think, for when you're directly hitting the fire
oops mis-reply meant for catter

[analog pewter]

personally i think it's fine
IME when playing with my friends and using goo gun this way, it actually ends up giving my target a health buffer and sometimes an opportunity to escape they might not have otherwise had. and if they removed the ability to hit players, it would completely dissolve its utility in stalling. plus you couldn't hit sick clips airshotting someone with it and then clapping them on the landing

goo lock is often countered by running away, or putting up any form of cover

[chilly granite]

Flamethrower left click is using the wrong hitmarker

it should be using the normal bullet hitmarker probably, but it's use the damage over time hitmarker

[analog pewter]

it definitely needs a distinct hitmarker and hitsound

[rich flame]

being a victim of Goo Lock is MISERABLE however

[chilly granite]

I sent a message to embark support about it @analog pewter

[analog pewter]

on a scale of like, okay to winch claw, i rank it closer to okay than winch personally
around the middle of that scale

nullifier might be the worst one

[chilly granite]

null is not worse than winch imho

at least the entire time they can shoot, you can shoot back

[sudden pewter]

Goo lock will definitely be addressed eventually, if Winch stun is gay then so is goo.

[analog pewter]

idk what you do to goo lock without just fucking goo as a mechanic lol

[rich flame]

probably just make it so the goo gun dosent spawn goo when you direct impact a player

or make it bounce

[hardy dust]

Winch is the worst by far, and goolock is much worse than null tbh

Idk how hard it would be to implement but slowly gaining resistance to goo stun overtime when being stunned by goo repeatedly would maybe work as a temp fix

So the initial stun would be the same but the more they get stunned the less effective it becomes

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-mewgenics-jerma985-gif-13269481588352453586

[agile matrix]

uh if i play light and run vanishing bomb, glitch nade which would be a better third frag grenade or pyro grenade? ive been kinda between the two

[graceful nova]

My AKM was empty in front of a heavy, with mesh shield up. So I grabbed the props in Kyoto instead of my teammate’s revive statue.

In a frenzy I landed 3 hits with the props in a row (earned achievement!) , dealing enough damage thru the shield that the heavy backed off a bit. We reloaded and I finished them off.

[white pilot]

Best way to counter double barrel?

[white pilot]

Does it have to be a grenade? Light has many great gadgets

[agile matrix]

its kinda just a place holder rn cause im tryna get better with gateway but ive been running pyro grenade and i was just wondering for future use if pyro or frag were better or if theyre like equally good

[white pilot]

Pyro isnt that good rn. However ive really been liking frag grenade for area denial and punishing slower classes

Basically i use it to flush people out of cover, cut off escapes, or usually if they're too slow or distracted then they take a bunch of damage from it

[white pilot]

It's also good to stall with

[agile matrix]

mm gotchu gotchu, thank you so much for you wisdom

[white pilot]

You should probably still ask other people besides me though. Im not a ranked player i just play casually

[agile matrix]

yeah ill prolly get some more opinions just to see but ill def try the frag grenade out more cause you bring some valid points, ill see which i like more

[mental urchin]

I think Pyro grenades are phenomenal, and I was a certified Pyro hater until recently. Its extremely easy to use Pyros on reflex reactions, slice angles with them, and they have a whole bevy of utility.

Breaks goo and gas; stalls cashouts, doors or revives; deals damage through barricades, thin walls or floors; adds alot of visual clutter to hide behind, can be whipped out almost instantly.

The average damage of a frag is much higher but its also very "cross your fingers" and hope the enemy doesn't react to the blinking red light quick enough.

I love both of these grenades now, I'm seeing their strengths.

[white pilot]

But i just think other gadgets do that same job but better

[mental urchin]

Depends on what class you're playing and why

[white pilot]

Id say the only strength pyro has is against lights in similar situations but if you wanna counter something like barricade or cut off exits or stall then there's better options

[mental urchin]

Play a Heavy and see how you feel about getting touched by fire, and your super long HP regen restarts all over again. Very underrated.

[white pilot]

Now in all honesty i feel like there are better gadgets than frag grenade to use as light

[mental urchin]

^ agree

[white pilot]

I usually regen that hp no problem and im a heavy main

[white pilot]

for example you could use H+ infuser to heal the team

thermal bore or breach charge to break open walls, gateway to bait enemies, spawn on the cashout, flank, and transport the cashbox faster

you could also run nullifier to stall, make escapes, and force a 1v2 fight into a 1v1 (it's also a really good counter to minigun cuz it unrevs the gun)

[mental urchin]

Pyro/Frag def things I would prefer to run on Med or Heavy, not Light

Light-specific gadgets are too strong to overlook

[white pilot]

goo grenade is good for saving yourself if the enemy catches you out of position (gateway can do this too)

[white pilot]

i would say medium since medium lacks good specialized gadgets compared to other classes

[mental urchin]

Yes I agree, its my favorite grenadier class for sure

[slow linden]

Would gut the goo gun,goo flame would be ruined and so would goo sledge

[swift cradle]

Pyro would be better if it stuck to players or had a larger aoe. It's utility otherwise is just alright. Goo getting nerfed makes Pyro less necessary to have in general.

It's annoying to deal with sometimes but, not the worst thing to get hit by unless you're playing light. Since getting hit at all in general as light is just bad. Especially with so many things that could just one shot them.

Frags should get 2 charges again. But reduce the dmg to at least 100~120 dmg and it will be better.

[slow linden]

I wasn't talking about pyronade but I do use it in my flamethrower loadout

I agree with you though,but for fire in general not just pyro

[swift cradle]

Oh, for like Pyro mines? I like them a lot. I wished Pyro nades worked like them on hit tbh lol

[slow linden]

Also removing cooking from frags and reducing them to 1 charge was the most boring balance change ever

[swift cradle]

I agree. I feel like that's been embarks balance trend lately. Mostly taking the fun out of a lot of gadgets.

[slow linden]

A shame

Keep the sand in the sandbox

I miss being a wizard and hucking multiple grenades at people

And Pyro nades

[slow linden]

They don't do 60 damage on impact for a reason,they completely shut down an area and do like 60 damage over time or more if you don't escape fast enough

I'd love for them to hit harder,but it wouldn't be fair

Having 2 again would be fine though

[hardy dust]

They never had cooking

[slow linden]

Open beta

I used to run at people with heavy and have them explode in my hand

[swift cradle]

I miss open beta... 😔

[hardy dust]

I never noticed they could be cooked in ob

Although its honestly a fair change to remove it

[slow linden]

A shame,was really nice,got good kills perfectly airbursting it into a room

[hardy dust]

They could def get a nice buff now though

[slow linden]

Fair? No. Balance safe? Maybe,frags are balanced,but they're a little too balanced

[swift cradle]

It's kinda easy to walk through the fire now tbf. Most players don't even care about the dot enough to not walk through it if it means they can chase you if you're low hp.

2 charges would be good though.

I think a larger aoe in general or Pyro also would help

[slow linden]

It keeps lights off your back line If you place it right,can also completely disrupt their frontline with it

[hardy dust]

Pyro and gas should get decent buffs tho

[slow linden]

I could see them slightly increasing aoe but not too too much

[swift cradle]

I agree. Im just thinking of the pros and cons

[slow linden]

I NEED 2 Pyro nade charges again

[hardy dust]

Also I will stand by the fact that the grenade indicator shouldn't have been added

[slow linden]

This I agree

[swift cradle]

Gas needs love too. But gas mines are still amazing lol

[slow linden]

Should be able to pick up frags and gas with telekinesis and throw them back

[swift cradle]

Maybe 2 charges for gas grenades.... but idk about that one lol

[slow linden]

That'd probably be all it needs,gas shreds

[swift cradle]

The frag indicator being added helps players with less awareness, so I get it. Im just annoyed it lost 2 charges. 1 charge for a frag is like... having 1 of those tiny pop rock things lol

Then you gotta wait 20 seconds

[slow linden]

Yeah

[chilly granite]

@random depot idk how the fuck u can stand to play overwatch to a high level

there's like 0 feedback on gameplay

it feels like, a game made for a movie, for like, a kid to play on screeen

[analog pewter]

worst thing about overwatch is the sticky movement that feels like skyrim

it also means that in every duel the optimal strategy is to just facemash the A/D keys because there's no inertia to prevent that strategy from being stupidly good

[chilly granite]

yeah

I mean, that's probably the worst thing about it gameplay wise, but from a first expiereince perspective

just like, I don't feel like I'm doing anything
it feels like I'm pressing buttons but nothing is happening

and then I look at scoreboard and see I'm doing more than my teammates and we're winning lmao

the gameplay feedback is awful

it gives you a bunch of big popups telling you "your achievements" but it feels like a consolation prize becasue I'm not feeling the impact of my shots

also I was bow user before i was bow user
ana was the only overwathc hero I liked in my previous 14h of playtime, and her rifle feels super similar to bow ahahah