💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sudden pewter]

Put my name in there like John Hancock

Front and center

[analog pewter]

when i did my testing i recorded it and put it in a video editor and timed it at 67, but I've also suspected that it's ping-dependent and might vary

[unkempt moss]

Just waiting on Bowregard to give his blessing

[analog pewter]

i like the repeater being the consistency king personally, I just think it needs a lower ROF

[unkempt moss]

I thought that would be the Pikes place once they get it out of the gutter.

It felt like the faster fire rate, lower damage, larger mag would increase the consistency.

[indigo nexus]

It wouldn't be affected by ping outside of extreme circumstances. I suspect you divided by 7 rather than 6 for determining the time between shots if you got that result, though

[alpine sphinx]

dont you love losing because your entire squad gets disconnected 8 minutes into the match?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah it’s my favorite part of the game

[wraith orchid]

Me too (I'm the one getting disconected)

[alpine sphinx]

me too, entire squad means im also disconnected

[sudden pewter]

This looks so familiar

Oh it’s the Vegas map

[chilly granite]

hitmarkers are ping dependant

I tested using frame->frame of the muzzle flash which is not ping dependant, it's client simulated so should be entirely accurate unless they broke something

problem with this is that while it has better range than revolver, it's way lower damage tahn revolver, whihc I feel would result in people not wanting to play it

I like the idea thoguh

[chilly granite]

I'd be ok with making the repeater a medium ks-23

[unkempt moss]

The fall of on revolver would be more intense than CB im assuming.

[sudden pewter]

Correct

[chilly granite]

tbh idk what teh weapon blanace team is doing in regard to medium weapons at all

[graceful tinsel]

Yo sledge it down

[chilly granite]

but I stand by my opinion that mediums weapons should get gutted so it's ttk even with light

and then heal beam and such should be buffed to compensate

medium should trade with light but actually be a powerful support class

[unkempt moss]

So the revolver would be the close range duelist weapon and the CB the long range skill cannon

[sudden pewter]

Correct. Repeater should focus on ranged poke where the Revolver is the brawler

[chilly granite]

I kinda perfer the cb to be a bodyshot chunker by giving it the ks23 treatment, feels like it matches the roleplay more

[unkempt moss]

And the pike is the consistency dmr with some love.

[chilly granite]

pike should just get lh1 breakpoints tbh

medium lacking a 44/88 is weird

[analog pewter]

I think what I did was I split the timeline every frame the shot fired and then derived the rpm from the splits

[chilly granite]

I clicked early to trigger input buffering

[analog pewter]

So did i

[chilly granite]

I was recording at 87 fps and you can see mouse inputs so u can check the input buffering good

[analog pewter]

I'll find the video in a minute

[analog pewter]

Where are you playing from BTW?

[chilly granite]

eu

[analog pewter]

Cause that does look faster than the fire rate i was able to achieve last i tested

Which makes me think the fire rate was bugged somehow, or still is but it's changed

[chilly granite]

recording is 87 fps which is gives good accuracy - my computer can achieve doulbe frame rate so only 1 frame of maxium error

[analog pewter]

What is that in rpm btw

[chilly granite]

72

60/number i say will give you rpm

[analog pewter]

Interesting, because the last time the model's rpm was touched the patch notes say it should be 77

[chilly granite]

nah patch notes are ass

they say the bolt rpm is 77

it's the bolt operations per min, not rounds fired per min

there's also a recoil animation or something

the bow has the same thing, they said rpm buff from 98 to 105

what they actually meant is the reload animation

[analog pewter]

idk where they're getting those numbers from, why are they saying "rpm"

[chilly granite]

and, I am not certain abuot this, but I think it's not even "rpm" but actually a rounded millisecond value, so 610ms to 580ms on the bow reload, rather than 98/104 or whaetver the rpm is

Increased rate of fire from 98 RPM to 103 RPM

98 rpm is 0.6122448979591837

103 is 0.5825242718446602

I suspect it's just 610ms/580ms

[analog pewter]

so its a completely worthless number lol

[chilly granite]

I mean, I think it's accurate, just not to the millisecond

roughly accurate to the 10ms range

but the problem is that the communication is very unclear

Decreased the pump-action duration from 0.8s to 0.78s, effectively increasing the fire rate from 75RPM to 77RPM

Decreased the duration of the lever-action animation from 0.85s to 0.8s, effectively increasing the weapon’s fire rate from 70RPM to 75RPM

OH NO

DO you have the lever action skin

[analog pewter]

eclipse shade?

course i do

lemme guess
the skin nerfs the cycle speed

[chilly granite]

wait no

[analog pewter]

well i mean rn im in the practice range and it seems to fire exactly as your last vid so it seems fine

[chilly granite]

they're all lever action skins, I assume the second time when they said pump was just a typo

and the pump ones says buffing from 75 to 77

the level one says 70 to 77

After version 5.12.0, the weapon's actual RPM is only 64 instead of the labeled 75. After version 6.6.0, the weapon's actual RPM is only 67.5 instead of the labeled 77.5. After version 8.6.0, the weapon's RPM was increased to 72 for unknown reasons.

@analog pewter

[analog pewter]

wait what date was 8.6

[chilly granite]

almost certainly after your recording lol

[analog pewter]

yup i actually have a video comparing them i forgot i made

cause i forgot that patch happened

so in fixing a different bug it looks like they fixed the fire rate bug

[sudden pewter]

Notice KS isn’t on the list

[chilly granite]

After version 8.6.0, for unknown reasons, the RPM of this gun was increased to 78.5.

repeater

[analog pewter]

oh my GOD bro they cant do anything without buffing the repeater

[chilly granite]

Matter

[kindred gorge]

Cause KS needs all the help it can get. Unless it was also nerfed and they forgot to even mention it

[chilly granite]

AND OF COURSE LIGHT CATCHES STRAYS

[sudden pewter]

Another 17 legendary skins for the ARN
||Repeater ADS speed increased by 0.2s||

[kindred gorge]

INCREASED?

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12450451651611168773

[kindred gorge]

“We realize there’s an unintentional poke meta. To rectify this, we are making an intentional poke meta”

[analog pewter]

embark doesnt even know how their own weapons work and what their fire rate is

[kindred gorge]

Ain’t no way

[chilly granite]

THE FUCKING REPEATER WENT FROM 72 TO 78.5

[sudden pewter]

In a perfect world Embark would have a handy sheet with all the weapons and their intended niches listed so they can balance accordingly.

[kindred gorge]

Which one is this?

[chilly granite]

mnatter

[sudden pewter]

I’d assume the pike is for poke (name pun) and the repeater is more long range duels or support with more focus on headshots but pike is dogshit and repeater has completely eclipsed it

[chilly granite]

so, matter and ks23 get nerfed

model, repeater and bfr get buffed

and the repeater gets a HUGE buff

from 0.83 to 0.76

60millisecond advantage per shot

0.83 is the same as the revolver's ttk on a light with 3 bodyshots, btw

[analog pewter]

@chilly granite what would you think about them adding a damage floor for shotguns, so something like 1-3 pellets landing for the matter guarantees 3 pellets worth of damage, and then only adding more damage above 3 pellets

[chilly granite]

@hushed kernel I don't mean to bother you mr techncial game designer, but the "fix for player skipping lever action/manual action animations" accidentally buffed the repeater, bfr a LOT, while nerfing the ks23, and matter

The repeater meta has only gotten worse and the "nerfs" to the repeater haven't helped at all, probably becuase this technical change was a MASSIVE buff to the repeater

Can this accidental change please be reverted with hotfix priority like the v9s got

I understand the repeater isn't being as played as much as the v9s, and that's becuase it's really not very enjoyable to play, even being op

the v9s is actualyl a fun gun to use, so ofc people use it when it's buffed

[analog pewter]

put it in #1201841543926005810

[chilly granite]

lame, the inner 3 pellets spread on all shotguns is basically inconsequentially small, so it's really easy to hit

the problem with the matter is that the spread is very wide, with few pellets; so each pellet is a lot of lost damage

if the matter had 1 pellet from the mid-spread moved to be close to the center, it would have better range than the DB, which is currently not the case (until you reach midfalloff on the db)

[sudden pewter]

Hypothetically what if all the wepngad gang pinged a developer with gifs all at once. Not that we would, as that would be disruptive to their month long vacation

[chilly granite]

gof uckin do it you gigachad

[sudden pewter]

I could be funny and ask for bare feet. Or hold it and wait for an issue that isn’t just “You’re pushing changes too slow”

I’ll probably be autistic and work on a short rapidfire 3m video with my grievances and QoL I’d like to see

[chilly granite]

GUESS WHAT OTHER GUN GOT NERFED

THATS RIGHTTTTT

LIGHTS POKE WEAPON

RIP SR84

@bronze fractal @elfin condor can u guys make sure this shit gets to the right place?

this is insane and no ok, i been bullied by repeaters too damn long and you nerfed light's best repeater counter

repeater is good enough against sr84 that it deserves a nerf on that basis alone, even wihtout it getting an accidental shadowbuff

[kindred gorge]

A Sniper losing a little bit of dps isn’t world ending. Still sucks though just makes it worse in close quarters

[chilly granite]

when the repeater goes from afire rate of 0.833 to 0.75 and teh sniper goes from 1.3 to 1.33

that hurts a lot

[indigo nexus]

They probably mostly have pings muted, contacting support would make much more sense

Or I guess the bug reporting channel

[chilly granite]

doing all 3

https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1470553627205828790

signal boost plz

[unkempt moss]

Not sure what I'm boosting but sounds good

[chilly granite]

I just dominated last game with LLL as 7th seed hahahaa

frag grenade feels greeaattt

[gloomy spoke]

yall is m11 or v9s better

[sudden pewter]

If you’re diving M11, if you’re dueling the V9S (imo)

[chilly granite]

p muhc

personal preference is probably the biggest factor

if you don't vibe v9s, the m11 will be better. If you don't vibe m11, v9s will be better

[deep karma]

Someone buff my beloved child

[unkempt moss]

yall is shak or mini better

[analog pewter]

shak

mini is probably better into shield comp tho, it shreds shields

[chilly granite]

hahhaa

[analog pewter]

i do unironically agree with the guy in #👂┇game-feedback saying explosive weapons should deal self knockback cl-40 jumping would be hype as fuck

[unkempt moss]

Oh no

[chilly granite]

rpg yes

cl 40 god no

@unkempt moss frag grenade good

[serene glade]

Frag is mandatory on mgl. Wish I was playing it when we got 2 charges

[chilly granite]

I counted the frames and this is, as far as I can tell, 386 ms from draw start

which is the exact amount of draw required to onetap a light

who was aruging the change wasn't a buff? Maybe not to you, but it was to me 🙂

@copper hazel

I recorded a bunch more clips but I gotta sleep now

I somewhat want to play sf6 but I got a bad headache last time and I don't want pay money to hurt myself lol

Fkn snowy Kyoto was running soo badly it made my game crash 3 times and it was unplayable when I was connected

Even without OBS the performance was still horrible, I went from 220fps standing inside the building to 120 dropping to 25fps outside

So I count 29 frames from the start of bow draw animation, for 386 ms of draw

80ms of predraw gives 306ms of true draw

306/490 max draw * 64 max draw damage gain = 40

+60 base damage, 100 total damage 1.5x headshot multiplier, 150 damage

Technically, the maximum error is slightly less than one frame

If I had one frame of overdraw, it would be 400ms total draw instead of 386

For 2.5 damage of overdraw hahahah

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/car-attack-gif-17041714682877993979

[sudden pewter]

Shak. Mini is too reliant on positioning and team support

[gritty latch]

Invisibility needs nerfed. It's garbage that they can sit and wait til they heal completely in front of ur face then shoot you dead.

[sudden pewter]

Skill issue. Anything else we can help you with?

Oh you copy pasted it from #👂┇game-feedback nvm

[gritty latch]

If not nerf, put a cool down on it. Reduce the time you can be invisible. Skill issue or not this happens to pros and noobs. It's not just me. You can be less of an child too. We can be adults and not put eachother down or make eachother feel stupid people come to this channel with real concerns. Take them serious or stop being a duche canoe.

We love this game we pay money. Hear our feedback

[deep karma]

Invis feels very easy to spot right now but maybe it’s harder to see on consoles.

[sudden pewter]

It is incredibly easy to spot, and there is a very clear audio cue that informs you there’s a rat about. Cloak is underperforming and if anything needs a buff or rework, not a nerf.

Not all feedback is equal, I’m sorry you got your cheeks clapped and felt the feed to copy paste garbage in multiple channels in frustration

[serene glade]

Gar maties, the invisible light got me again arghhhh

[gritty latch]

I did mention they are entirely undetectable when they are still? They are catching on and staying still in the middle of the feild and it's crazy.

[deep karma]

That's not true though, even still you can still see them. They are always rendering.

[sudden pewter]

If you’re dying to a light in the middle of a field that’s a you problem. A light with 0 cover is a dead light in any elo other than bronze.

[gritty latch]

I don't hear anything and I got great audio.

[serene glade]

There's so many things you could complain about this game but you chose invisibility. Respect I guess

[gritty latch]

Undetectable when they are still

[deep karma]

You can still see them when they are still

[gritty latch]

I cannot. I'm on console. I CANNOT SEE OR HEAR THEM.

How are you seeing them when they are still?

[deep karma]

Idk I just look at them, example:

[sudden pewter]

https://youtu.be/YJIbPpN140E?si=HpOjCl_ERJiz6e3P
For you, hope this helps

[gritty latch]

That's first person veiw. Show an example of someone in 3rd person.

[deep karma]

Wait who

[gritty latch]

And it's not a place to make fun of people. We pay money into this game and I want to have a convo with adults. Not children making fun of me

[serene glade]

You have 420 in your name. You deserve to be made fun of tbh

[sudden pewter]

“It’s not a place to make fun of people” - the orange role that’s new here

[gritty latch]

My mistake. I thought it was a great place to have a convo about the game. Yall were the worst people to be on at this time. Thanks for wasting my time.

[serene glade]

I want the game to burn. Deuces weedbrain

[old flame]

bro that silly he couldn't see that invis light was killed in this clip

[sudden pewter]

You didn’t come here for a convo you came here to whine about cloak, one of lights weakest specs

[old flame]

anyone who brings up age in the discussion is not older than 16 lil bro

[sudden pewter]

Tourists will kill the game faster than Embarks glacial balance does

[serene glade]

The game isn't fun because people on a discord don't think like me. I promise there's tons of other reasons why the game isn't fun

[old flame]

g let's move on and pray they will add new gadgets or specs next season 🙏

[serene glade]

Apex added rocket jumping for a character, and we I'll be getting ads speed nerfs

[sudden pewter]

Ong I don’t believe we need new weapons or gadgets at this time. I’d much rather see adjustments to the pile of options we have collecting dust

[serene glade]

And hopefully invis nerfs

[sudden pewter]

The pike was taken outside and double tapped, all melee weapons other than sledge are in need of attention, goo grenade needs to lose a charge, etc.

[serene glade]

I agree. I'd love to see weapons overhaul somehow and reworking horrible gadgets and specs more than anything

[sudden pewter]

I believe it was S6(?) where Oscar said in the future they’re going to move away from new gadgets/weapons every season in favor of reworking existing options, essentially making them new.

He also provided an example of a game that did that concept well but I can’t recall the name

[old flame]

weapons and gadgets agree
but man we need new specializations

[sudden pewter]

Light only has 1(2) specs. Guardian Turret still needs work.

But otherwise yeah, more specs please.

[serene glade]

If you dropped 3 new specs in the current state of this game I'd play for one day and then go back to playing other things. The game has been so stale for 2-3 seasons now and new specs would just be a bandaid fix unfortunately

[old flame]

i remember oscar said they had new gadgets/reworks planned for s10

[sudden pewter]

Do you remember where? Was it in a livestream?

[old flame]

it was at livestream around s8 launch

[sudden pewter]

Checks out

Likely referring to Thermal Vision and hopefully Barricade

[old flame]

i think he also mentioned specializations but i don't remember how exactly

[deep karma]

Thermal Vision is just a week away

[old flame]

something s11

[sudden pewter]

Hopefully the winch stun will finally be addressed in S10

I hope they continue to work on QoL moving forward, I’d love to be able to rebind the opt-in button for kill cams and revive requests

[unkempt moss]

God cloak is fn busted. Sick of it.

[slow linden]

Bro whattt

Why do I always open this chat to the wildest shit 😭

Cloak fucking sucks

[serene glade]

Nah he's right, they are undetectable when they are still and heal in front of your face and then shoot you dead

[unkempt moss]

Thats what I do

[old flame]

"it's fucking busted"
then they mention it's only possible use case (that can be countered in at least 2 ways)

i can agree it's annoying at times but it's definitely not op
more like situationally good
personally every time i encounter cloack/vanish in game i might fall for it only during the first encounter when idk what they're running

[bitter geyser]

Turn off AA and youll see them clearly lol

[slow linden]

Genuinely one of Embarks worst nerfs I don't care that the fuck ass ruby players cried about it and got it gutted,their complaints are only to elevate themselves

They ask for buffs for the things they collectively use and drive a stale boring poke or automatic meta while asking for nerfs to anything whimsical or even remotely strong

[serene glade]

I don't think cloak is good

I think it's stupid light has vanish bomb tbf, but cloak sucks lmao

[unkempt moss]

Yeah I was only poking fun at the guy above but I realized that irony is lost on the internet

[deep karma]

wise words from 3s alex

[unkempt moss]

Just over a month until we're back in business.

[indigo nexus]

Huh? I never see ruby players doing this, it’s always the opposite. They’re typically the most annoyed about the meta because it directly impacts their gameplay experience

If embark catered to them then we’d have a ruby-centric balance, which we do not

[unkempt moss]

Maybe hes making the argument that all balance is ruby centric. Since they just play the meta no matter what the state of the game is.

[indigo nexus]

I don’t understand that argument.

[unkempt moss]

I just took my best shot.

I don't know who is ruby here and who is not, so I'm not sure which opinions to take as my own.

[serene glade]

My opinion is Kenny Omega will not allow Alex to be mid, and Ingrid will be fun. Rejoice

[unkempt moss]

There's zero chance Alex being strong makes it to Evo

Ingrid will be A tier

[hot flame]

Wait seriously?

[slow linden]

I heard they were the reason cloak was nerfed,the rest was just slander because I'm a professional hater,there was a time when we were on the track to a ruby centric balance but the people called embark out on it,even so most of what ruby complained about that got nerfed is still stewing in either mediocrity or complete uselessness

[slow linden]

This is true but it's not my fight,could argue that some of them would only be diamond without meta slavery but that's not my call to make

[ebon ocean]

@hot flame so what are you exactly trying to say to where heavies need a nerf instead of buffing medium and lights for?

[hot flame]

I just got into a match so I can't start a discussion here. Buffing other classes is alright but throws twice as many potential issues into the mix. TBH with a few small exceptions, like DB and M11, Light is pretty balanced right now

[ebon ocean]

Have you not noticed from how difficult it is to balance those weapons in a equal level? They are literally changing fire rate on the guns since the damage increasing by 1 is too big of a difference.

I find it that more buffs would just make it easier to balance overall.

Like the model it's a impossible weapon to balance rn.
Edit: if everything was high kill ratio, model would've been never nerfed and light db would be never complained about.

[hot flame]

What??? Nerfs or buffs is still changing things, its hard either way

[ebon ocean]

Bigger numbers, easier to balance the auto and single firing weapons.

Pike is weak when deals 49 damage, but op when 50 or more.

[hot flame]

They gave up on Pike a while ago, they could've easily fixed it with a 20% firerate reduction at 50 damage

They threw us teh repeater and said now theres this problem, guess pike doesnt matter anymore

The desisions they make are totally unknown to the playerbase, like WHO was complaining about FCAR??

And WHY DID THEY BUFF RPG?

I cant trust this company to make any logical decisions ever

[slow linden]

Medium is the best class in the game,if you ask me both winch and dash don't belong in the game,they're crutches,and the only reason dash is tolerated is because the brainless balance team gutted lights only two interesting specs

[ebon ocean]

I'm on the same page there.

[hot flame]

Disagree, heavy has a total advantage right now. GRANTED, for a heavy to be most effective you need a medium teammate

[ebon ocean]

Your kinda right. Fire rate reduction could've done it.

[hot flame]

It was the same issue we now face with the repeater. Lights get picked off before they can even react. Reduced fire rate is desperately needed, maybe a little more recoil.

Embark just refuses to touch any sort of shot spread or recoil in this game tho, aside from shotguns ofc

[slow linden]

They do however need to stop nerfing mediums funny weapons and leaving Medium with only boring automatics and poke,but they do that to both Medium and heavy already except they nerf poke on heavy too(justifiable tbh,I'd be fine with a single shot anti tank gun or a cannon,but the titan was excessive on launch)

[ebon ocean]

In general medium is gonna get played because of mobility and support.

[hot flame]

The issue right now is heavies are unstoppable forces due to a stale meta. Not exaggerating when I say 100% of heavies run Dome + RPG

[ebon ocean]

I don't like recoil as solution. I liked it when season 1 actually made it harder to see through the recoil, but people complained about it, so now it's gone.

[slow linden]

Nothing changed on heavy and we were in a Medium meta a couple seasons ago so I'd say it's just a case of no one finds the other classes fun anymore and 1050 health is not a fun fight for most comps

[ebon ocean]

They in general nerf interesting weapons and lie that they do care about it. But then we've met with a basically 3v3 rainbow six siege with abilities game on majors.

[hot flame]

My take on that is that people who were medium mains with meta weapons that got nerfed moved to heavy. its also a higher ELO thing tbh

[slow linden]

Also god forbid they rework the mgl,they've been neglecting that sharpened piece of dog shit in the abuse corner for years

[hot flame]

I think the MGL and CL40 don't belong in the game honestly. Explosions should be solely gadget based

[slow linden]

Those people are none of my concern,my dedicated team has no interest in ranked and I think solo grinding is a waste of my time

[hot flame]

I don't have any friends who play cuz the game is too hard to get into lol

[slow linden]

Soft ass take tbh I rather enjoyed fighting them when they were good and I thought they were fun,it was mainly dash light mains dying due to desync issues that got cl40 nerfed and mgl's promised reworks shelved

[ebon ocean]

Would work for MGL. But I don't think cl40 should be a gadget when breaching charge exists

[slow linden]

Force them to under threat of bodily harm

[hot flame]

I meant like just remove them entirely, we have mines, RPG, charges, etc.

[slow linden]

I would prefer if cl40 were a reloadable spec like goo gun over a gadget

[hot flame]

RPG should be a spec if its gonna be so damn potent

[slow linden]

Not cl40,mgl

Cl40 would be fine as a weapon and they should buff it a little

[hardy dust]

Give it 125 direct 🙏

[slow linden]

Wouldn't that cause some redundancy with c&s?

[slow linden]

Bad,no,go back to cave,just give it pin point accuracy and nerf It by 20 damage

[hardy dust]

If you're hitting direct pipes you should be able to 2 tap medium

[hot flame]

Yes and no. CnS is also something I think needs a major rework. Point blank 100 dmg is insane.

[hot flame]

HELL no what do you MEAN

[slow linden]

I thought we were talking about rpg

[hardy dust]

Rpg should get nerfed 💀

Its so stupid it even got a buff to 110

[slow linden]

Cl40 definitely needs a buff but 125 seems excessive,120 would be fine though

[hot flame]

RPG should be more about creating angles. Literally on the highest health class

ALSO, it allows melee heavies to still have a ranged attack. Its the only gadget that does direct damage

[ebon ocean]

I guess it would work.

[slow linden]

I just asked for a damage nerf,I want it's season one and open beta accuracy back though

[viscid carbon]

I really hope they drop a huge patch sometime

Complete meta shift

[hardy dust]

Full accuracy (even while hipfiring, lower cd, more structure damage but reduced damage)

[hot flame]

Funny man, you are

[viscid carbon]

Ik

[hardy dust]

It becomes a lot better for map manipulation while still being a decent damage tool, but nothing like before

[slow linden]

They need to go back to the random weekly balance changes so shit that gets broken doesn't terrorize the game in the hands of unemployed losers for a season and a half every time

[viscid carbon]

They give a slap on the wrist to the most oppressive weapon in the game but nerf something nobody complained about

[hardy dust]

Mgl nerf next patch

[hot flame]

Yeah no the 1.5 year Winch reign of terror destroyed my trust in them

[hardy dust]

Repeater will get -1 fire rate

Melee hitreg will be completely fucked

[copper hazel]

To be fair this clip you got a bit lucky cuz you were reviving tm8 in a really awful position and it's surprising light didn't punish you for that and just missed like 3 bullets

[slow linden]

Mgl nerfed to 1 damage and also can no longer kill someone on 1 health

[hot flame]

Curious what you consider the most OP weapon

[hardy dust]

Fixed spawns (for the hundredth time)

[viscid carbon]

Repeater should actually get its RoF gutted

[hardy dust]

https://tenor.com/view/umamusume-uma-uma-musume-seiun-sky-seiun-gif-5489906929905676202

[viscid carbon]

I wonder which lol, all they did to the Repeater was a completely insignificant ADS speed nerf

[copper hazel]

Whenever i do stuff like this I'm getting instantly punished

[slow linden]

This is the same type of patch note lie as herobrine being removed every other patch in minecraft

[hot flame]

Yeah repeater does suck ass

In the "its op way" ofc

[viscid carbon]

Had a very fun match playing vs 2 repeater smurfs camping spawns and hitting every single shot

You literally die within seconds of them spotting you

[hot flame]

Well its been fun gentlemen, but sleep is important

[slow linden]

On each class? Repeater,arn(they basically gave light an m60 with no recoil or falloff),winch with anything even after being gutted(most of heavys weapons are actually pretty underpowered and unreliable but winch simply existing propels some into the meta while preventing literally any buffs or reworks at all,half being nerfed because of winch,and some being reworked because of winch)

[viscid carbon]

FCAR "buff" will go down in history just like the AKM's ammo reduction ngl

[hardy dust]

Honestly the only weapons that need nerfs are repeater and bfr

Everything else is within normal-ish ranges of balance

[hot flame]

Whoa whoa hold up. Heavy weapons are NOT underpowered dude. SHAK, Lewis, Deagles, Flame and, once again, SHAK are all super high damage output for the 350 health class. pairing most any of these with a dome OR winch OR lockbolt will net you a kill every time

[hardy dust]

If those 2 got nerfs and weak options actually got buffs I'd be so happy

[slow linden]

The bfr is kinda whatever now,they should have just given it falloff to begin with now it's in such an awkward state that if they nerf anything else about it it will be just kinda ass

[hardy dust]

Shak and deagles are strong, lewis is decent (but very consistent) and flame just sucks

[viscid carbon]

Revert FCAR "buff" please

[hardy dust]

I just want it to get reworked into actually fitting heavy and not having good range

[hot flame]

Flame only sucks if you dont know how to position. Its not OP exactly but it is def a good weapon when played well

[copper hazel]

Maybe they shouldn't have give a 90 bodyshot up to 35m for a 350hp class to begin with

[hardy dust]

It sucks when either you dont know how or the enemy does know how

[slow linden]

Shak and Lewis are literally the only two exceptions,and personally I find deagles more of a minor annoyance rather than an actual good weapon,don't like using em,don't like fighting em,and flamethrower is just okay but it's kinda boring without mine and goo combos,the only things that make flamethrower comp viable or oppressive in any way are winch and mesh user and if you use either of those with flamethrower I just think less of you as a person

Many of heavys weapons are only conditionally overpowered,use this with winch,use that with mesh,but without them some are rather quite mediocre and are held down balance wise by winch

Genuinely remove winch and half of heavys arsenal becomes bad,not awful,not dogshit,just bad

[hot flame]

Dont forget Flame + Lockbolt. Personally I run deagles in secondary gamemodes when I feel like giving light a break and they're pretty consistant. ALSO, having two exceptions just means thats all people play. I would say 30% of heavies I encounter play SHAK, another 20 play Lewis and another 20 play Deagles

[slow linden]

Thing is I actually want winch Removed,it is the chains of a slave that bind heavy,that limit heavy

[hot flame]

Maybe sneak the MG in there somewhere

[hot flame]

Read the name buddy

[viscid carbon]

Winch is still too oppressive, you can basically call it a "press Q to win"

[slow linden]

Tbh if you get lockbolted AND let a flamethrower approach you before you break the object that has maybe 70 health that's kinda on you

[slow linden]

I am a heavy main and I genuinely don't want winch,it is a monkeys paw and a tumor,it will only have every weapon on heavy nerfed or reworked around it until there is no other option but it

Winch is killing heavy and it has been since it was added

[slow linden]

Thing is 98% of heavy mains are too stupid to even consider this perspective,that what they saw as a boon has been slowly making them weaker

[viscid carbon]

Remove hit stun entirely from winch lol, or just make it stun you for an instant right when it connects and nothing more, gut ts honestly

[slow linden]

Remove winch,or make it pull you towards the enemy rather than the enemy towards you,there are no other options for the future of heavy,anything else is the slow and sad death and dismantling of heavys sandbox

[hot flame]

Heres my take on lockbolt. Realistically speaking, it's probably going to take you a MINIMUM of 1.2-1.5 seconds to locate and destroy it, and thats assuming you're not already in a firefight with someone else, AND that you can see it clearly (not around boxes or in smoke). It has nearly 120 health if I'm not mistaken. In that time frame, the heavy obviously already knows you're there, plus has a very clear beam of light showing exactly where you are, and (as a light) they and a TTK on you LOWER than that time it takes to destroy the lockbolt.

It also lasts for like 7 whole seconds, which is equally insane. All this is also not counting for any of the heavies allies shooting you

[slow linden]

It has no skins,it CAN be removed,remember recon sense anyone?

[slow linden]

Shoot big cylinder with line on your screen that points directly to it,run away,lockbolt countered,the only time where you get lockbolted and you're honestly fucked is if there is more than one opponent,which probably would have killed you anyway given the situation

[hot flame]

Oh my god I hate this server moderation. Blocked my message for nothing

Genuine question, do you ever play light? Not trying to be a jerk im curious

[slow linden]

The only thing lockbolt is REALLY good at is stomping on the tender malformed skulls of dash lights and overly aggressive mindless heavies and that's exactly what it should be because these players are very annoying to share air with

[slow linden]

I play every class,I play grapple db and cloak with pretty much anything barring the arn,I find that weapon loathsome but I love every other weapon on light

I have played dash,but it's genuinely so brainless I haven't played it in months

[hot flame]

I main V9S Dash

[slow linden]

You're gross

[hot flame]

Honestly don't play anything else in cashout. I've not changed since the literal Beta

[slow linden]

Actually wait did you play v9s before they buffed it through the ceiling

[hot flame]

Yeah, the nerf made me change to the XP for a while tho

[slow linden]

That's fine then I don't care,fun weapon all around but I warn you that dash is a crutch,sure it's lights only good spec,but it's so good that it honestly plays the game for you

[hot flame]

Mildly disagree, dash is good but the reason it's overplayed is cuz its the only counter to winch of any sort

And its BARELY a counter

[slow linden]

I genuinely think both Don't belong in the game

[hot flame]

Nah dash is a suitable thing for a low health high mobility class. What else would you even replace it with?

[slow linden]

Dash is oppressive to literally any melee option and makes them borderline unplayable

Just dash backwards and shoot center mass and they'll never ever touch you and you win instantly

[hot flame]

See but thats where winch and lockbolt come in

[slow linden]

I don't like winch because it also opresses melee

Lockbolt is good kit for melee and it's dodgeable even if it hits

[hot flame]

Most fights are honestly close quarters enough that melee heavies can do well as long as they cplay with the team

[slow linden]

When it lands it takes half a second to chain

[hot flame]

If ONLY lockbolt existed I wouldn't mind it all that much

[slow linden]

I don't speak purely of heavys,dash oppresses ALL melees

Except maybe riot shield and situationally duel blades

[hot flame]

I doesnt oppress other light melee either, so hence the only thing you could be talking about is heavy melee

No light melee is gonna run anything but dash

[slow linden]

Ironically spear,heavys second worst weapon can beat dash easier than sledge,but not by much

I genuinely think dashes just shouldn't regen until you use all of them and you shouldn't be able to reload while dashing if they're not gonna let you reload while grappling

[hot flame]

Grapple is the least used for sure

Ok I REALLY need to go to bed

[slow linden]

Because they killed it,it had one thing going for it and they beat it to death like an unwanted child

[slow linden]

Sleep

[random depot]

As a heavy who never has a medium, wrong in fact the meta in high elo has shifted to be HHL or HLL as well as the standard form of HML and HHM.

Medium is basically the weakest rn

Lights support mediums better than mediums support heavies lmfao, medium has no identity anymore

[slow linden]

No identity,yes,but medium is just the easiest and most reliable class in most situations

[chilly granite]

First, I was trying to bait him

Secondly, I thought my regen would start before he got there, which isn't true

If my regen starts even if he hits every shot, he dies

Man what even happened to this chat while I was sleeping

It's like everyone got lobotomized

[copper hazel]

I mean you cant bait people with revive cuz enemies dont hear you reviving (exception - defibs)

Except if someone from enemies gave them a callout which is still not consistent thing

[chilly granite]

I'm pretty sure the sfx is global?

It's fkn quiet

[copper hazel]

I don't think its loud enough to reach players behind walls or next floor at least

[chilly granite]

There were like 3 open doors to where he was, I'm pretty sure eh could hear it, there wasn't a good reason for him to peek like that otherwise

Like you can hear after I start reviving he comes running immediately

But yeah, even if I played it poorly, even if he missed some shots, if I had to wait another 70ms to have a headshot cooked, I die there for sure, I only had 5hp lmao

Most buffs shouldn't be black and white but rather increasing win probability in gray area fights like this

That the balance team tends to miss so badly that it is black and white is a problem lol

[copper hazel]

Maybe because he just heard you running and jumping?

[chilly granite]

We had been fighting shortly before

There was no reason to peek based on my movement sounds

He may have just been an idiot

[bitter geyser]

ya, no AA is basically cheating against invis lights

[bitter geyser]

Reddit cried about invis tho lol

Genuinely the main thing that rubies want is cashout to be fixed

Basically:
spawn logic for both vaults/cashboxes and players
griefing or at least how stupidly easy it is
game rules, money value, plug money etc.

[random depot]

1 word: Kyoto

[shadow blade]

When is thermal vision coming back

[serene glade]

Never

"update 9.9 is going to be a banger"
Excited for another nothing burger, recycling old game modes is all they do these days

[serene glade]

Servers dealing different damage is a new one. Using milking incorrectly as well

[placid slate]

Spear kinda needs it more than sledge since goo causes the object cap, and the m1 qm combo off winch lets it reliably kill lights with an rpg followup

[kindred gorge]

Update 9.9 gonna have 1 tap repeater istg

[placid slate]

It's gonna have nothing, embark is gonna play the holiday card for the third time

[lapis field]

Need a new fcar skin it’s been so long

[placid slate]

Also 1 tap repeater would also be a notable change, which they don't do anymore

They'd increase a number by 2 like the bfr nerf

[lapis field]

Demat needs 3 charges back, ngl lights being able to hawk you down dashing 4 times is crazy when you can’t close the opening to run anymore they’ll just dash thru the window next to it, especially when it comes to a winch heavy

[placid slate]

I would do terrible things to people if demat had 3 charges again

[serene glade]

What if you brought back the charges and speed and just removed the ability to close the wall with a charge

[placid slate]

That's just not demat though, would be less cancer but still fucks it up

[serene glade]

It's still instant destruction with the unique property of not breaking anything. It's just no longer usable as a solo run away through a wall item

[sudden pewter]

Would push it into more of an offensive/chase role opposed to being used defensively

[floral agate]

flamethrowers alr perfectly balanced

same as mines

[chilly granite]

wepsngadgs, anyone else had worse performance since update today?

[kindred gorge]

haven't had a chance to try it yet. My performance is always shaky though it isn't not a perfect metric

and I'm kinda tempted to play the new helldivers update over finals anyways

[chilly granite]

if your perf isn't great anyways you'll probably be feeling this imho

[kindred gorge]

dire omens

[warped timber]

Are there any current like tier lists/metas re guns and gadgets that yall recommend

[unkempt moss]

Its called demat, not remat. So this works.

[viscid carbon]

Unlikely but I really hope we get a balance patch with update 9.9

Hopefully FCAR gets reverted

[serene glade]

they said its gonna be a banger, when they hype up a patch its normally horrible so i wouldnt get your hopes up

[kindred gorge]

anything specific you're looking for or you just want the rundown on what's making the round rn?

[viscid carbon]

Imagine they bring back Bank It and nothing else lol

[warped timber]

I mostly play light and medium? So I guess that’s as specific as I’m looking for

[unkempt moss]

This is likely what it'll be

[kindred gorge]

the leading team comp is 2 heavies and medium so there's that. p90 and repeater considered top tier but fcar also a good pick. Large consensuses are "never take turret, always take defib" but you aren't gonna get stoned for not taking that advice. Jump pad is one of the best gadgets in the game once you learn how to use it effectively

on the light side, dash is sweeping as well as m11 and V9S

[viscid carbon]

FCAR is kinda ass post "buff" ngl

you're gimping your capacity vs AKM for marginal benefits vs Light and actually slower TTK vs Heavies, though Medium TTK is a bit better

[kindred gorge]

just has more consistency at range. not to mention I still see way more fcar than akim even post buff

[warped timber]

Why is light not even a meta class? Too squishy?

[kindred gorge]

yeah, too many counters exist or are in the meta right now, especially among the heavy

[warped timber]

Is the BFR still just absolutely cracked for heavy

[kindred gorge]

the way to thrive as light, at least for me, is to orient around sneaky pokes and stalling the objective. My main loadout is e-dash, V9S, vanish bomb, gas or glitch nade, and breach charges. Hide and attack enemies from behind or from unexpected angles, and priortized survival so you are on standby to interupt a steal with the breach charges

[kindred gorge]

Yes, BFR Shak 50 and akimbo are very common

[chilly granite]

why do you want fcar reverted? it's mostly a buff

[chilly granite]

did you see my finalized graph?

[viscid carbon]

It's a buff vs medium but a nerf vs light and heavy which was arguably why it was so good to begin with

yeah it performs better vs shields and with headshots but I think it's overall a downgrade

[viscid carbon]

the one you sent on release day? yeah, and my opinion still stands

[kindred gorge]

it performs better against more classes and gadgets but it's a downgrade?

[chilly granite]

HHL is arguably more popular than HHM or HML

the main thing is that gateway, H+ and glitch grenade are too powerful against HHx

And HML is too squishy

but before the glitch 2charge revert, HHM was far, far more popular than HHL

[kindred gorge]

added benefit, you're making two weapons that are similar more distinct which is good for the uniqueness of the game

[chilly granite]

@viscid carbon so it's faster aginst heavy if you hit an odd number of headshots, and against medium if you hit an even number of headshots

it is worse aginst light in every situation, but only by 17-26 milliseconds, which is a very small amount

and it's 1 bullet less to kill if you hit an even number of headshots on meidum, or an odd number of headshots on heavy

which means that the fcar's very small mag becomes slightly larger

left side is new gun, right side is old gun

[viscid carbon]

AKM just feels better to me this patch ngl

[chilly granite]

akm felt better before buff to me, and feels better now

but ammo efficency vs dome shield, and ammo efficency/needing 1 less headshot to kill a heavy, is a huge buff for the fcar in what I would argue was it's worst matchup

whenever I played fcar I really struggled vs heavy, espeically a heavy being healed

[kindred gorge]

I wonder if it would be good for diversity to have one of the 3 smgs that light has to a similar change

damage up, rof down

[chilly granite]

problem is their damage numbers are too low and too sensitive

xp54 could have 16.5/840 probaly

but they haven't done a .5 dps before

[kindred gorge]

I would just help avoid the issue of having 3 weapons so similar that one is just the static best option and the other two are invalid

[chilly granite]

that's called nerfing the arn

[kindred gorge]

is the arn a problem? I never see it getting used

[indigo nexus]

eh, kinda. It is very viable and relatively easy to use, I think most would agree

[kindred gorge]

give arn the rof change then and make it slightly net negative. it can be the lewis gun equivalent of the smg trio

[chilly granite]

the m11/xp54 have good balance of advantage and disadvantage, the arn totally invalidates that

[viscid carbon]

same 520 RPM but with 24 damage would be super good

[indigo nexus]

but what if we reduced it to 20 or 22 rounds..?

[kindred gorge]

if m60 was good then heavy would the best example of balancing a trio of weapons

[indigo nexus]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the M60

[viscid carbon]

20 round magazine would be too taxing with anything other than 25 damage, but you don’t want that back lol

[chilly granite]

you're asking for it to have better dps than the m11

please shut the fuck up

[kindred gorge]

that's a little hostile. but we've seen the conseuquences of raw dpr changes

[indigo nexus]

huh? the m11 would still be better DPS by a large margin

[chilly granite]

10%? I didn't do numbers

[indigo nexus]

+28.2%

[chilly granite]

either way the fcar would be firmly op

[viscid carbon]

Maybe explain that properly to the unknowing person before telling them to shut the fuck up

[chilly granite]

216 dps vs 266 on the m11

[indigo nexus]

If I was the balance guy I think I'd want to shift fcar to 24 damage and then reduce RPM / mag size as needed to keep it feeling uniquely specialised

[chilly granite]

I mean, your entire premise is flawed, which is that teh fcar is weak

[slow linden]

Everyone and their grandma wants that

[viscid carbon]

I’m not saying it’s weak, I’m saying it’s worse than it was before the “buff”

[chilly granite]

it objectively is not, except against only light

if you hit 0 headshots, OR only fight light, then the fcar is worse

[indigo nexus]

hmm, the damage change wouldn't actually make a huge difference (RPM -> 520, damage ->24, mag size -> 22)

[slow linden]

Supposedly it was really good in high elo,Everyone was running cloak but only in ruby,I'm sure a good amount of ruby players partake of the reddit

[indigo nexus]

it is not objectively weaker but it is also not objectively neutral or better... I wouldn't argue it was strictly a nerf but I lean towards "probably a nerf".

[slow linden]

Reddit gets mad at you when you complain about griefing funny enough

[chilly granite]

I think becuase it results in saved bullets on h/m, which was the fcar's biggest weakness (tiny mag in a teamfight), I consider it probably a buff

and the slower rpm and higher hit damage, while technically a nerf vs light, also probably a buff, because light is more vulnerable to chip damage, which is more likely to result in beneficial breakpoint changes now

[serene glade]

reddit thinks omega savage in monster hunter is a cool fight. very unserious website

[indigo nexus]

Mm, small mag size buff with small average TTK nerf. I just intuitively guess that that effective one extra bullet is less valuable than the TTK, but I don't know

[chilly granite]

the worst case ttk nerf is 64ms

and the average is like, 20ms

[indigo nexus]

Fair, it is slight to be honest.

[chilly granite]

Slower rpm arguably makes it easier to not waste bullets also/overkill

[indigo nexus]

makes it more similar to the AKM with increased mag leniency though, which is not a direction I'm a fan of

[chilly granite]

+20ms on light, -20ms on meidum and +2ms on heavy

teh average is like, +6ms ttk

the biggest issue is how they phrased/presented it

if they presented it as a buff to ammo efficiency

[indigo nexus]

my fancy graph thing says that in an 'average' scenario:

+43ms on light
+21.5ms on medium
+56ms on heavy

wait, maybe I messed up the stats

yeah, typed in the RPM values wrongly, so the actual values should be different, don't have time to redo it rn

[sudden pewter]

This doesn’t make sense because when the servers start shitting the bed the TTK’s change as damage starts to randomize ☝️ 🤓

CB-01 (Repeater)
Revolver
Famas
P90
FCAR(?)
Model
All are pretty good, I’ve been using the AKM to some success as well

[chilly granite]

the model is the only medium weapon I actually think is well balanced

everything else is varying degrees of over or under powered imho

I will say, I think the akm is numerically overpowered but I think the recoil pattern results in it being actually well balanced

revolver is weird and I don't like it

but I think that mediums weapons need to be ovwerpoed with how shit mediums kit is

IMHO defibs are underpowerd but they're also fundamentally game changing, so some people will use them no matter how underpowered they are

defibbing lights is aboslutely underpowered

[warped timber]

Spawning in with half health and an ability cooldown is annoying af as a light

[fleet hound]

gravity cube deadass best gadget

[chilly granite]

half health is dramatically more crippling on light than m/h

ther'es so mcuh stuff that oneshots 75hp, vs very little that does 125, and nothing htat does 175

[fleet hound]

tanks are on 175 hp bro its not only bad for u

u got smaller hitbox and WAYY faster speed

[chilly granite]

HAHAHAHAHAH

HEAVY MAIN SYNDROME

[fleet hound]

???

defib is still really really good, it can prevent team wipe and stall a steal

doesnt matter if 75 hp 125 or 175

[chilly granite]

Sprint speed on heavy is faster than walk speed on light; the amount of distance a light/heavy can run in the duration of invicibility on defib is about 4.5m for heavy and 5.2m for light

Not signfiicant

[warped timber]

I love getting defibbed only to die immediately to: mine, bow, knives, repeater, any melee ever

[fleet hound]

no shit ofc sprint speed gonna be faster on heavy than light walking

[serene glade]

the complaints i see about the half health and ability cooldown are weird. because its normally the reciever complaining about their KD. if there even is a chance where the light gets away its still a man up. the risk reward is insane. obviously gonna prio heavy for the defib but the complains of "im easy to kill as a light after a defib" is just not a good one to me

[fleet hound]

did u forget the hitboxes dude? i genuinely dont think defib needs a buff

[chilly granite]

how bad at aiming are you to sturggle ot hit a light that isn't dashing?

[fleet hound]

the ability cooldown should stay but be a little lower

[serene glade]

how would you feel if you didnt have breakfast this morning

[warped timber]

I mean it depends on where you get defibbed, but when my teammates defib me in LOS as opposed to moving me behind a corner kills me every time

[fleet hound]

positioning? do u even know how to use light bro

[serene glade]

ok then thats a player issue, but again i dont care about a KD at all

[chilly granite]

I don't care about my kd, it's more that it's almsot always a net negative to defib a light vs slow revive

[fleet hound]

u can defib someone mid fight and it just guarantees a win

[warped timber]

No agreed I also don’t care about KD but they waste the defib on me and then cannot use it more effectively

[chilly granite]

I just got defib'd by an idiot medium

[fleet hound]

its a little unfair so i see why they made it half hp and abil cd

[chilly granite]

You can defib a heavy mid fight and it's a 100% win, not a light

[fleet hound]

not 100% a win lmao

[serene glade]

yeah normally, its more so a medium player doesnt need to think about defib because its such a high value gadget if unpunished, and not a massive L if it fails

[warped timber]

This. Cause a competent enemy team sees the revive and just kills immediately

[fleet hound]

theres soo many ways to counter a defibbed heavy

[chilly granite]

all one of the enemies needs ot do is onetap the fresh defib light wiht repeater or ks23 or bfr or frag or rpg

[fleet hound]

frag or rpg?

[chilly granite]

what's teh question?

[fleet hound]

js run behind a wall bro 😭

[warped timber]

If they time it at all you physically can’t

[chilly granite]

I literally timed a frag that exploded right after the guy spawned and inviuln wore fof

yesterday

idk if i can find the clip

[fleet hound]

if someone defibbed u that person that defibbed u is probably still alive, u can js bruteforce

if its 2v2 then no ur not gonna win defib doesnt work like that

[serene glade]

i think defib is strong, but im not this guy @chilly granite lmao

[fleet hound]

im not saying defib is op

[fleet hound]

im saying it doesnt need a buff

[chilly granite]

defib is good on heavy, great on medium, and bad on light

[serene glade]

op, i hate those 2 letters so much

[chilly granite]

heavy and light depend way more than than medium on gadgets and spec for impact

[serene glade]

id love to see healing removed aside from heal beam, and shields reworked as the heavy nerf and see what happens. because i will stand by heavy isnt the main issue, its the support on a heavy

[fleet hound]

u want heavy nerfed???

[serene glade]

How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning man

[fleet hound]

js use a sniper or melee ambush the heavy as light bro istg theres a counter for everything

if hes using sledge hammer js shoot him from med range if hes using bfr either rush him or js snipe him

theres literally soo many ways to counter heavy i have no idea how u guys are struggling against them

[chilly granite]

@fleet hound you realize googs is a heavy main

[fleet hound]

(same can be said for every other class)

[regal obsidian]

the brain damage never stops

[serene glade]

I don't even remember complaining about heavy

[fleet hound]

"heavy main" doesnt mean im always right, maybe thats js his opinion though

[warped timber]

Heavy does need a wee bit of a nerf

They’ve gotten too much range in their guns

[chilly granite]

also my argument was simply that mediums gadgets and specs, combined, are significantly underpowerd by comparison to both light and heavy

heal beam is way worse than h+
dash, claw, mesh, googun, invis, are all way better than demat, turret or heal beam

jump pad is "ok" at best

defibs are solid, but certianly not strong to the level of dome, c4, rpg, glitch nade, gateway

[warped timber]

Medium is literally only needed for defib

[chilly granite]

mediums 3 best gadgets are "shitty gateway", "defibs" and "a gadget every class has"

jump pad/defib/goo grenade

[serene glade]

I just think it's the bfr over tuned, healing, and shields

[fleet hound]

goo gun and invis is NOT better than demat bro

istg demat one of the best gadgets out there

[chilly granite]

goo gun, abosufucikng lutely is

invis I'll conceed

[serene glade]

Goo gun is better than demat

[warped timber]

Yeah true

[fleet hound]

u can push down the cashout from under with demat then steal or even above witha heavy using gravity cube + claw

[warped timber]

You can do this with several other things like any breach tool ever

[fleet hound]

its literally a guaranteed steal, not only that u can steal vaults from the floor by just pushing it from down

[serene glade]

You can stall insanely easy with goo gun.

[fleet hound]

not possible if u do it with a breach tool the cashout will fall down and the players can just rush u

[fleet hound]

stall not steal

[warped timber]

They can rush you if you take it down with demat if they have any breach tool too

[serene glade]

You can put the cashout on a pedestal of goo to stop it from even being dematted

[warped timber]

Also they just put mines on it anydyou die regardless when they do

[chilly granite]

heheheh

[fleet hound]

can they rush u from above? u would still have time to get half of the bar

also u can just explode the mines by shooting them

[chilly granite]

goo gun can chainstun people

demat is mostly useless in a fight

[fleet hound]

demat aint supposed to be used in a fight bro

[serene glade]

That's just not true

[warped timber]

Okay but by the time you shoot the mines they can get to you, so no benefit. And if you’re halfway on the bar, you are in a 2v3 unless you abandon the steal

[chilly granite]

I mean, that's wrong, but also, if it is true, that's just another argument as to why goo gun is better

[fleet hound]

u can while running or open a wall but its not usually used for that

[chilly granite]

But even if demati si better than goo gun, that doesn't mean a medium iwth demat/defib/jump/goo is better than a ehavy with goo/rpg/dome/c4

[fleet hound]

barely use goo gun idk alot about it so yes it could be better

[fleet hound]

the gadgets medium has still pretty much mandatory for strats also the reason most people even use medium is for defib

[chilly granite]

there are some strats that medium is mandatory for, but not all

defib is powerful but the reaosn why its less popular than light/heavy in pro right now is becuase you can work around missing jump, goo grenade, and defibs by using different strategies

[serene glade]

Medium is boring, bring back the jump pad demat plays, and launching the cashout I beg

(yeah you can still launch it, just not the same)

[fleet hound]

u can still do it but u need a heavy

[serene glade]

You don't

[fleet hound]

if u wanna seal the roof then yes otherwise they r js gonna go through the gravity cube

[chilly granite]

@fleet hound try wtaching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaXmZBNBpdQ

appoh tends to overstate trends/dramatize stuff

but the fundamental part is good

teh start

After he stops talking he just shows his gameplay for the rest

[fleet hound]

js tell me what part to watch im not watching 45 mins

[serene glade]

Based

[chilly granite]

3:10

[unkempt moss]

Ill settle this. GooGun is better than Demat.

I have spoken.

[chilly granite]

I mean I don't think that's controversial to anyone butthis guy

[fleet hound]

true but i guarantee u demat is better than invis its genuinely not a bad specialization

[unkempt moss]

I'll grant you that.

[chilly granite]

I'd rather have a light wiht invis and good light gadgets, than a medium with demat and good medium gadgets

[unkempt moss]

I'd almost always rather have a medium than light.

I'd take turret medium no defib over any light, in most circumstances.

[chilly granite]

somewhat depends on playstyle

a medium can be used as a meat shield better than a light

but a light can have more individual impact

[unkempt moss]

Not usually. I can think of maybe 3 light players on my team that ive been impressed by.

[chilly granite]

I'd rather have a H+ than a heal beam, can you agree with that?

[alpine sphinx]

absolutely not, both are toxic

[chilly granite]

hahaha

[unkempt moss]

Just from experience the light acts on their own too much. While mediums, even mediocre ones, will usually play next to me. Which, to me, is more important.

[chilly granite]

that's bad players being bad

that doesn't speak to the strength of the archtype or their kit

[unkempt moss]

Its a truth that exists until very high in the ranks.

[warped timber]

Okay so would you rather have a light playing with you or a medium playing with you

[unkempt moss]

I just think medium kit facilitates team work better, even if overall weaker

[chilly granite]

that's fair

[warped timber]

Like if the light is actively playing with the team they’re better

[placid slate]

Wing it predicted the meta, fucking knew they were the goats

[unkempt moss]

Its closer but I still think I prefer the mediums kit. That's getting down into personal preference though.

At that level it gets kit and even map specific.

Best teammate ive ever had, that wasn't a heavy, was a light.

Sniper Light to be exact. But that doesnt change my opinion from lights being a burden on the team most times.

[broken mulch]

wing it is the goat they had a sword and a bow

[unkempt moss]

Which team had the googun user?

[fresh maple]

Newer player here. Is there a "meta" build for each class? Or is it more akin to "play what feels good"?

[kindred gorge]

there is a meta but you should play what you enjoy, unique concepts is what sets this game apart so don't limit yourself

[fresh maple]

Good copy, thank you 🙏🏽🫡

[chilly granite]

the advantaeg of skill based matchmaking is that if you suck with what you enjoy, your enemies get weaker until your games are decent

just play what's fun and let sbmm work it out

if you want to get ruby, then there's a meta, but you'll be good enoguh to work it out if you're good enoguh to get to ruby

[kindred gorge]

yeah and hopefully it'll change by the time you're getting there

[fresh maple]

I mean, not to toot my own horn over here, but I blew through Bronze pretty quickly yesterday, so Ruby should be a piece of cake, right? RIGHT!?!

/s

[kindred gorge]

how long have you been playing for?

[fresh maple]

If I play today then that would make it 4 days lol

[kindred gorge]

And you’re already on the ranked scene? That’s wild.

I was so bad for my first few months that I wouldn’t even get off quickplay

[chilly granite]

omg guys I have the most insane clips from my last game

[kindred gorge]

I can’t post clips😢 but I’ve love to see them

[fresh maple]

I admittedly didn't realize I was playing the ranked world tour at first but just kept going. Haven't fully won yet but I've gotten to the Finals a couple times now and lost but we've been close!

[kindred gorge]

Neat! I get 2nd or 3rd most of the time and that’s a steady pace so keep up the good work

Should mention Im also in silver, I exclusively play ranked with a set of friends I recently introduced to the game but they still do well

[fresh maple]

Should I be focusing more on quick cash games while still new?

[serene glade]

If you like playing ranked just play ranked

[kindred gorge]

Nah man if you’re performing well then keep at it. Play whatever is fun for you

[serene glade]

It's not a serious game so just play whatever you want. Ranked is the mode punishing team wipes which is nice

[chilly granite]

yeah I've always thought cashout needs wipe loss

[placid slate]

Public execution of all demat mediums March 7th 2026

[chilly granite]

@fresh maple quick cash is great for practicing third parties; both doing and being

head2head is great for practicing final round

tdm is great for practicing aim and cqb

play what you enjoy and if you feel like you're struggling with a certain type of gameplay, then practicing in a different mode might be good

[fresh maple]

Hell yeah, appreciate the advice y'all! And I've gotta say, so far this game's community has been super inviting, not something I expected from an FPS PvP game.

[serene glade]

Most people who you clown on this game are people who deserve it

[chilly granite]

wait until you see the racist names and outfits

I don't think the finals community is particularly bad, but since it's free to play, you get a lot of people doing such things

[short pumice]

Does the gateway's lifetime timer start immediately after placing the first portal (when it's still black), or can I throw it in the air and wait for a convenient moment and place to place the second portal?

The wiki doesn't seem to answer it: https://www.thefinals.wiki/wiki/Gateway

[chilly granite]

I don't think the community is better than csgo, but I think that the general opinon of fps games being toxic is overstated by people who don't understand injokes

[chilly granite]

wait for a convenient moment, the only limit is the max tether range

[short pumice]

So it's 20 seconds from putting the second portal, right?

[chilly granite]

yeah

the first portal will last infinitely as long as you are within tether range (50m)

once you throw the second portal, they remain up until 20s have passed

[short pumice]

Thanks

[chilly granite]

hehe

[fresh maple]

Realistically, how hard is it to play with the bow?

[chilly granite]

I wouldn't be afraid of it

it's pretty easy to pick up; the arrows are so fast and fat that they feel pretty hitscan in close quarters

getting used to partial draws which are slower projectile, and require you to draw the right amount for the damage you want, takes a lot of practice but it's very rewarding

the bow is really fun too, so I recommend it on that level

long range shots are a pain in the ass though, and skilled lights can be a nightmare too

and when you hit the juicy long range headshot, oh boy is that a nice feeling hahahahah

the projecitle looses a lot of speed at range, so at 70m, it takes like half a second to arrive, and it's 0 chance to hit a player who isn't moving in a straight line or standing still

but a heavy trying to aim a bfr at 70m is usually a pretty easy target lol

but yeah, learnign the bow, I would focus on getting consistent wtih full draw bodyshots, then trying full draw headshots, and then start trying to do partial draws and crazy shit hahahah

[fossil verge]

Are there gonna be weapon changes in 9.9

[chilly granite]

we pray

[chilly granite]

ooof I need to make my recordings smaller

you can tell which ones I got to final round lmao

@unkempt moss I found a couple of guys, flamethrower and dual blades players

great synergy, it's been good for exposing my weaknesses as a player becuase I can see more clearly when i let them down, becuase I know how good they play when I'm doing my job too

they're absoultely chadly and it's very fun to play with them

dual blades and flamethrower means i ahve two tanky bois I can sit behind and arrow people

they have great gadget usage so can often win a cashout def solo

so my good vault control with grapple, sets up for their strong cashout def, which covers for my accidentally dying somehwere stupid

I got some good clips of us playing togehter but I@m tired so i'll do that tomorrow

we lost to a former ruby being boosted by his friend on a smurf account though which was really sad, we almost beat them LMAO

if I had hit one arrow on the repeater player, we would've beat them ahha

we were 8th seed and it was at least a mid plat lobby, i think, so we got decent points for 5/6 instead of 7/8

[unkempt moss]

Are they going to play with you regularly?

[chilly granite]

I've added them and they said they'd like to, but I'm not sure lol

They didn't have VC enabled so it was mostly text Comms lol

But we played like, 10 games lmao, so I've already got a lotto learn from

I really need to work on my self control in not overcommitting on a kill, that was quite evidently my biggest weakness

When I have teammates who have guns and more movement tools, it's less obvious when I'm overcommitting

But when I know I'm playing with flamethrower and a dual blades, it's very obvious when Ive thrown away advantage by overcommiting on a small advantage

[unkempt moss]

Flamethrower players are great synergy for lights because they draw so much agro. You can play invisible if you do it right.

[chilly granite]

Exactly, and dual blades has a similar effect

[unkempt moss]

Hard to look at anything else when the the deathnaut is in your face burning you to death.

[chilly granite]

And I was mostly doing a good job of playing off them, but there were multiple times where I threw good advantage away with a sloppy peek because I was kill hungry and such like

[unkempt moss]

Sounds like you're learning a good lesson. Good thing youre self aware enough to see and fix it.

[chilly granite]

Sometimes I just accidentally found myself out of position; not hearing enemies only to walk into an entire team

But I've already been improving that lol

But mostly it was "intentional" overcommiting, where Im trying to pressure an advantage but instead throw away the advantage

Even through the games we played, like, 4 or 5h? We significantly improved our cohesion and teamplay

I was playing much better around their protection, and I was doing a better job of judging when I could commit or when I should stay playing behind

I'll try to grab some clips tomorrow

Also, dual blades attack sucksss man

It's so long and it does no damage at all

Your better off just blocking them to death hahaha

Our dual blades player was crazy with the blocks, he was hitting full mag reflections on heavies hahaha

And our pyro, winch/flame/RPG/pyro mine/dome

Dude was crazy good, he had multiple solo cashout Def's lol

And incredibly good at surviving, so many fights he lived through 1hp

Tbh those guys are a threat on their own, just giving them a bow for protection at range and a little bit of follow up is huge lmao

And the dual blades player is by far the medium with the best defib usage of any medium I've played with

Very good decision making on who to defib and when to revive, and the only mid fight defibs I've had when I'm light that were actually good lol

Demat jump pad dual blades frag defib

I should probably drop frag for h+ when I play with them

Frag was powerful in multiple games, but I think h+ is just too good with flamethrower+ dualblades

[unkempt moss]

You can ask them what they need from you as well

Are they a duo?

[kindred gorge]

Anyone wanna pick up a chill silver controller player ah ha haaa type shit

I gotta say the riot shield seems to be more effective but I just love the swords way more, even if I don’t know how to use them like a top tier

[sudden pewter]

#lfg-na-casual

[kindred gorge]

I was joking but thank you

[graceful nova]

I’ve been relying more on the RPG as a heavy. I just straight up win more fights with direct hits from above.

I’ve also learned how to use C4 in engagements in TDM. I just put one right at a doorway I’m escaping through, and just set it off right after arming. No need for pyro mines anymore…

[sudden pewter]

Combine the C4 with a mine of your choice.

Forbidden African C4 Ritual will increase your KDA

[kindred gorge]

landing 3rd on a projected 8th is toe tickling

woulda gone higher too but the 4th place team decided to spoof us for the love of the game

[white pilot]

turret is a pretty crap specialization that absolutely deserves a buff. But for now, i kinda wanna find a use out of its uselessness

i'm thinking maybe i place it at the entrance to a room, using it as a sort of room clearing gadget maybe

[white pilot]

also this is more of a self reminder

[spring spear]

you kinda just place it where your team is so that if the other teams dive you in you can get some extra damage

thats the only use it has and it doesnt even always work

i guess you can use it as a fallback if you get jumped while using cl40 aswell

[bleak osprey]

Add kriss vector

[bleak osprey]

what are your controls

omfg they look soo trackpad-dy

[sinful crag]

What does that mean?

[chilly granite]

he means putting a c4 on a mine

the mine pops the c4, resulting in like, 250 burst damage

man I just had a team of randoms last game that insulted me while doing literally nothing

like I acknowledge I did not pop off, but they were negative value entirely

literally every signle fight our repeater player died instantly

in my last game, 5/6 7/8 was 1/2 3/4

I was 2nd seed lol

[kindred gorge]

Using it to detect enemies when they approach from a certain angle is a common use. But putting it in a hallway or room you suspect a light will retreat to when they are low hp can garner some success when you are lucky

[kindred gorge]

One of the games I played last night we took a wipe because I admittedly played a bit too aggressive and one of the teammates who was putting in work said “I hate you guys” so I locked in and we came out on top. Satisfying to say the least

I wish I had clipped it but I had some insane jukes trying to revive my teammates. Like one where I ran around a corner, vanished, and then ran back through them and up a zipline and somehow didn’t get caught

[chilly granite]

turret honestly is good, the problem is that it's too counterable

and I don't know how you fix that

we doubled so third place could beat out pink, who were first seed ahhaha

turret is kinda like invis in that it's really easy to counter once you know how, but it's not super obvious, and if you just run headfisrst into it, you'll get bodied

[spice plaza]

have a chart

[kindred gorge]

how do you change the rpg?

[sudden pewter]

You use the gadget on the rocket midflight

[muted condor]

Make it work on dome from the outside Embark

[serene glade]

It's actually getting a charge taken away tomorrow for cannibalizing turret some more

[compact tundra]

I usually do 1 of 2 things with it

Either I set it up in a room, or behind cover and use it as a retreat spot. That way I can either bait the enemy into a 2v1 with my turret by my side. Or run away through the room and have the turret stall them for me as I get away

Or I put it in a spot that covers a lot of the areas they could pester us from, this is especially useful on point break after the buildings have broken down where you can put your turret on a spot of rubble high up and if it's back is to a wall it'll genuinely cover most the rat spots where people like to get high up and shoot down on you. Good at stopping GL players and rat lights from pestering you from above

[white pilot]

Wdym? How so?

[bleak osprey]

im a trackpad player

[white pilot]

Oh i see

[broken mulch]

wha

why??

[white pilot]

I dont use a trackpad though. What made you think that?

[broken mulch]

no but why would you use a trackpad???

can you even ads?

[alpine sphinx]

real chads use a drawing pad

[broken mulch]

cant forget about the dance pad

or the recorder

[alpine sphinx]

drawing pad for aim, dance pad for movement

or the other way around to be extra spicy

[spice plaza]

thats literally default except for the spec?

[compact tundra]

@hushed crown

Sorry for @'ng you but Im on cooldown in feedback and kinda wanna discuss this a bit.

I think dash actually could use a nerf but not nearly as harshly as other people think. Obv cloak and grapple need a buff, but I do think dash is too forgiving rn and its vertical mobility makes it cannibalize grapple a bit. So what I want to see nerfed about it is the recharge time go from 6s to ~10 so each dash had to be more carefully used, you still get 3 dashes but now they take a lot longer to recharge so you have to be strategic about when you use them. Secondly I'd like to see the vertical mobility nerfed. I think adding a vertical clamp to the dash would work well, maybe limit it to 30-40° so you can still dash upwards but not nearly as steeply, so grapple has a better use case.

Also as for weapons I agree we should be giving out far more buffs than nerfs but there are a few guns that need nerfs. Weirdly enough I actually think the SA is in a great spot. The weapons i'd want nerfed are the BFR (range nerf), Repeater (hipfire and fire rate nerf), FAMAS (recoil nerf), and ARN (slight nerf to range). There's a few more reworks I'd like to see but they aren't straight nerfs so I'll leave them out.

[hushed crown]

youre fine! i think a cd nerf is fine but four seconds feel a bit much. though i do agree it has too much vertical mobility. in a lot of scenarios you can almost use it like a grapple
also yah i kind of forgot how easy the arn & famas are to use, they could definitely get recoil nerfs

also i usually play melee, an smg, or an lmg, so i cant tell if the titan or cb01 need nerfs 💔 they seem fine to me but ofc i cant hit my shots

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I actually like the recoil on the ARN cause of how headshot focused it is and I think either nerfing it's range or nerfing it's falloff multiplier would suffice for it

Not by a lot tho cuz it's fairly balanced right now it just feels a little shitty when you get beamed from like 40m+

[compact tundra]

The Titans problem is it's range is too good on heavy. Heavy is the best defensive build in the game and giving them a long-range weapon like that is just a bad idea so I think nerfing is range and maybe giving it an extra bullet to compensate would be fair.
As for the repeater that thing is just borderline broken, it is one of the best weapons in the game and I think nerfing both hipfire and fire rate would be good for it

[sudden pewter]

The hip fire is dogshit I’m unsure why so many claim it’s comparable to the revolver

Definitely needs a nerf though, too good for poking and it’s lethality is unchanged in CQC

[opaque wolf]

the only rework i wanna see is goo nade going to 1 charge but having a quicker cooldown

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

Goo Nade does need to lose a charge fr

[unkempt moss]

Quemby about to drop a manifesto

[ashen hawk]

Turret buff idea
Feel like this gonna work real well but it's going to make things a bit complicated. It's a whole change in mechanics.

You can "upgrade" your turret mid-match with barrels found in-game. This gives them temporary perks that relate to each barrel.

The perks will last for until its destroyed, or **maximum limit 30 seconds **of being deployed. When upgraded, the health of the turret is reduced to half. You have to bring a barrel to the turret and hold an input to upgrade it.

• Explosive barrel (red): Turns the turret into a rocket launcher, shoots rockets after every 3 seconds. Does 50-60 % of the damage of an rpg. It locks on to where the opponent was 2 seconds before firing, meaning that the opponent can still escape if it keeps moving.
• **Pyro barrel (**orange): Turns the turret into a flamethrower-ish turret. It spreads fire in a circle around it after every 6 seconds, which lingers on the floor. Radius slightly larger than the aps turret only.
• Gas barrel (green): Turns the turret into a** gas nade launcher, has a small range, gas nades launched last for 5 seconds and do half the damage of a regular gas nade. Shoots the nades really fast.**
• Glitch barrel: (purple): Sends shockwaves of glitch in a circle like the pyro one. Every 4 seconds.
• **Smoke barrel **(grey): Spreads smoke in a cone in front of it constantly, but the smoke only reaches till a certain point (really short). Cooldown after every 10 seconds.

The damage, how fast it shoots, or the range could be buffed or nerfed if it gets op or undermined.

Note that the explosive barrel turret can be evaded, but the person has to keep moving. This forces opponents to keep moving unless they destroyed the turret.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-rot-lil-nas-x-mpreg-pregnant-discord-gif-5991367321020313704

Bad. Awful even.

I know I said Goo wanted a different game but this is a whole ‘nother level

Take this back to coldharbor

[alpine sphinx]

the P90 range buff was so uncalled for

[indigo nexus]

I doubt it, why would they have buffed it if it was both not underperforming and people weren’t generally requesting one?

[alpine sphinx]

thisa isnt an argument, you have weapons that have never been meta that havent been touched for 5 seasons

[indigo nexus]

So?

Embark definitely doesn’t want some weapons to be heavily represented in gameplay, that doesn’t mean they’ll randomly buff weapons that are doing well

Any idea for motivations must be compliant with embark’s viewpoint for it to make sense

[unkempt moss]

Yeah my turret idea is way better tbh

[alpine sphinx]

yes, but that can be a bad viewpoint, hence a buff can be uncalled for

embarks "vision" is to bring other weapons into poke meta, instead of just changing the meta

[sudden pewter]

Do you really feel that this is appropriate for The Finals?

[compact tundra]

I think the P90 buff was a big mistake mainly cause the P90 boxes put weapons that are already struggling. I think the P90 on its own is fine and the buff was fine, but when you look at what it's good against you start to see a problem. It boxes out melees, underperforming shotguns, and flamethrower, all weapons that are typically bad and need buffs

[stoic garden]

i think it already did that without the buff but ok

also everything is good against flamethrower atp

[compact tundra]

It did but when all these weapons that need buffs are left without any changes, why buff one of their best counters

[sudden pewter]

Don’t worry bro Embark is working on a full melee rework. Next season will fix everything trust

[stoic garden]

don't ask me og

[compact tundra]

Not really, I main flamethrower and it's underpowered but not terribly, if you utilize your specs and gadgets well it's not bad

[stoic garden]

ask chatgpt 🤑

[sudden pewter]

@Grok, is this nwah fr?

[wintry trout]

Boom!

[compact tundra]

We been saying that for 3 seasons 💀

[sudden pewter]

Next season bro trust

[serene glade]

would you rather have the turret change, or orf with an AK

[compact tundra]

Also I have updated and expanded my 100% accurate, I am never wrong, tier list.

The items are not in order within their tier list, I'll organize them in tier when the phone UI is functional

[unkempt moss]

Orf with an AK

[sudden pewter]

Famas overtuned? Impossible. Professional players aren’t using it and that means it’s actually underperforming, I main Light and I’m bronze 1 and I know more about the game than you do!!!

[unkempt moss]

Why is googun not in g rank?

[sudden pewter]

(If you disagree with me I’ll call you a child)

[compact tundra]

Peak gameplay is the highest I can give, any higher and I'd have to make an individual tier list for sword and flamethrower as well

[ashen hawk]

Idk what changed but I said this idea some time ago and it was well-recieved.

But yeah it might make the game feel like sum role playing game or sum

[sudden pewter]

Your entire rework seems like a League of Legends ability. Incredibly out of place

[ashen hawk]

Then at least give me a flamethrower turret specialization. I settle for nothing less. And we need a new spec anyway

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[serene glade]

lets give medium a drone @sudden pewter

[alpine sphinx]

yes this is my point exactly, embark gives small buffs to weapons that area are already very good and calls it "major weapon changes"

[ashen hawk]

ishowspeed has the most difficult to read faces for me so its really hard to see how ur feeling rn

[indigo nexus]

But, you lack information pertinent to that viewpoint? The info which would be required to justify or discredit it is info which you lack and embark does not. So, I am confused as to where you perceive the credibility of this point to come from.

[sudden pewter]

I understand you’re suggesting changes in good faith, and the turret certainly needs changes to be on par with Demat or HealBeam. But your suggested rework is very complex and goes far beyond what any specialization should be doing

Hear me out:

• Faster target acquisition
  Damage unchanged

[indigo nexus]

I don’t really see why it boxes out anything. It is more comparable to closer ranged weapons, but that doesn’t make it inherently better against them than any other - after all, the meta right now is mostly consisting of longer ranged options, so if anything you’d expect it to be the other way

[chilly granite]

honestly target acquisition rules would need to be straight changed

rn it's super fast if your team has aggrod it

the biggest thing the turret needs is faster rotation and more consistent target acquisition

[ashen hawk]

Actually well-written and surprisingly calm response.

Anywyas thanks for agreeing to a new turret spec 🔥

[chilly granite]

even a heavy can walk circles around turret

[sudden pewter]

Everybody gets one calm response.

Then I chimp out and start flinging shit like an ape

Except the stamina system guy, fuck that

[compact tundra]

I love how that was months ago and he still haunts this channel

[sudden pewter]

Elephant never forgets

[serene glade]

heroes get remembered, but legends never die

[compact tundra]

Bro you don't understand, he wanted to turn melees into a literally different game making melees play like mordhau

[unkempt moss]

I DEMAND you make a new rank above over tuned called G Rank, exlcusive to GooGun

[sudden pewter]

Melee weapons would also get more damage based on stamina

[compact tundra]

I would love to my liege, but the UI on mobile is so bad that I ain't touching that tier list for at least 3 more months

[serene glade]

we should have a week where game feedback balances the game

[sudden pewter]

That would be an absolute disaster

[compact tundra]

The best question here is what would have more buffs then nerfs, and what would be untouched

[sudden pewter]

I don’t trust half the posters in that god forsaken channel to breathe properly or chew with their mouth closed, much less balance the game

[serene glade]

it will be a learning experience for them to see their dogass changes in action

[sudden pewter]

They’ll get what they want for a week and realize they’ve killed the game. “Yeah Light should be able to OHK everybody else because they’re so weak” and then they’ll get it and realize the game isn’t fun anymore

It’ll be S3 all over again

[serene glade]

lets let it rock. maybe we will get the one guys suggestion of cringe voicelines in the game. "woah bro you are using the flamethrower, that thing is ass"
IT WILL BE JUST LIKE DEADPOOL GUYS

[unkempt moss]

GooGun would get 3 shots on a 60 second cooldown, goolock has been removed.

[serene glade]

goo players will grow stronger from this setback, rejoice in God's obstacles as a pathway to strength

[unkempt moss]

Sword would just be a spin attack like spear but you lunge forward.

[alpine sphinx]

Common sense? You dont need usage and performance data to know that some weapon are complete dogass and arent even picked in 95% of the games

[unkempt moss]

Dagger would have a 270 degree backstab.

[serene glade]

bud things the team that hasnt done any meaningful changes in 3 seasons needs reasons for anything they do

[alpine sphinx]

No i dont think that @indigo nexus said that

and 3 seasons is being very generous, more like 6

[serene glade]

dash will be a gadget

[sudden pewter]

GooStun removed but you can now shoot through goo

[serene glade]

season 7 technically was meaningful adding universal healing options, horrible design but meaningful

[unkempt moss]

Hes saying that's intentional. I believe he said their vision doesnt include every weapon being in a truly viable state.

[sudden pewter]

Embark would take a perfectly balanced weapon and buff it because it isn’t being used enough. They seem to live in some grand delusion where every weapon is equally chosen by players

That is of course, unless they’re melee weapons. In which case they have no idea what to do with them, but they’ll fix it next season promise.

[alpine sphinx]

yeah but how does that go against my comment of the buff being uncalled for?

[unkempt moss]

If I had to guess he's saying that P90 isnt picked at a rate that Embark seems to think is acceptable.

So they buffed it because its underperforming by their metrics.

Hes saying you cant possibly know what their metrics or intentions are to make a judgment like you are.

[indigo nexus]

“Common sense” is a terrible defence because not only does it mean a different thing to every person, it grants no authority to your stance but intuited guesses. And that’s not even the claim I was arguing.

[unkempt moss]

When engaging with Sausage-san you have to approach him differently than you would one of the alleycats.

[alpine sphinx]

but then what are you arguing?

[alpine sphinx]

but then he's arguing a strawman, i never said anything to the contrary

[sudden pewter]

But have you considered you’re wrong and that I’m always right?
Checkmate liberal

[unkempt moss]

Brother, I'm on your side. I think the P90 buff was a weird move. You're not going to sway Sausage-san though.

[sudden pewter]

It was 3m range buff or so wasn’t it?

[unkempt moss]

I cant remember. I think the optics of it were more what the problem was.

[sudden pewter]

Just that the P90 got anything at all while other weapons collect dust?

[unkempt moss]

And we have a couple weapons that are out of control.

[compact tundra]

It's more that P90 got a small buff while the other weapons, that it counters, are underperforming and collecting dust

[unkempt moss]

The P90 very well may have needed that buff. The timing was like a fart in church though.

[analog pewter]

season 10 will be the big melee rework for sure for sure

[sudden pewter]

Don’t worry bro patch 9.9 will fix everything and surely has roughly 2/3 of the seasons balance changes we’ve been waiting for since the start of S9

[alpine sphinx]

I am praying

[sudden pewter]

And then next season they’ll rework all the melee weapons and finally release the barricade rework and thermal vision rework

[analog pewter]

season 10 will be ||fun||

[sudden pewter]

And once again all the awful players that relied on smokethermal will cry and piss and shit and uninstall and we’ll be better for it

[serene glade]

It's going to be a banger

[alpine sphinx]

Watch it be another asian themed season

[sudden pewter]

Chinals Pt2

[analog pewter]

findials

[sudden pewter]

BingChilinals

[serene glade]

Fin(SRI LANKA)als

[analog pewter]

if they do another country/region theme I hope it's mediterranean

[serene glade]

new emote is kissing an older male version of your contestant on the lips

[compact tundra]

I WANT MORE CHINA, THIS TIME LETS VISIT HONG KONG, TAIWAN, AND TIBET, ALL WONDERFUL AND BEAUTIFUL PARTS OF THE CHINESE HOMELAND

[analog pewter]

maybe with a greek map

[alpine sphinx]

I'm praying for medieval europe with fantasy elements. I want a medieval map and medieval fantasy outfits

[sudden pewter]

I’m still waiting for more out there arenas that take advantage of the VR setting. Nozomi is cool (I guess) if you listen to Lofi tunes while working on homework

[analog pewter]

moon base map where if you go outside the moon base you have low gravity
the LG event doesnt happen on the map it just has permanent low gravity outside
like that one map in overwatch (unfortunately the best comparison)

[sudden pewter]

Could have said LawBreakers

[analog pewter]

nobody remembers lawbreakers
even if it was good

[unkempt moss]

I want them to put it on mars for when they introduce their first energy weapons in s10

[sudden pewter]

S10 will introduce Eclipse Shade gadget skins

[analog pewter]

map on an interstellar city-ship like in mf wall-e

[unkempt moss]

Crashed alien ship on mars bubble colony

[sudden pewter]

Can’t wait for the claymore explosive mine skin

[compact tundra]

Honestly I don't know if this would be good for the game, but I want a map with 4d rules. Like parts of the map are slides that go below the map but when you come out you're on top of the map. I'm thinking like the wargames Titanfall map (my favorite map in that game) but instead of the wall running sections obviously, we have sections built for the finals movement that use 4 dimensional rules to move you across the map

[analog pewter]

wall-e had fun art direction

[serene glade]

outer space....why is everyone so unserious rn. TGM2 is not that far off LOCK IN

[sudden pewter]

Not sure the engine could handle such a thing, but if possible the possible applications of the tech would be sick for more than just maps

[analog pewter]

map that's just a supersized laser tag arena

[alpine sphinx]

so basically syshorizon

[serene glade]

they are actually just dropping nuketown season 10

[unkempt moss]

Youre right. I hope they go to Minneapolis introducing an ltm about ice.

[sudden pewter]

I’m still hoping for a “Reconstruction” or “Redo” grenade that rebuilds the arena and undoes destruction

[serene glade]

do NOT make me share the singing

[sudden pewter]

Simply because leveling the entire map is such a strong maneuver in terms of Point Break/TDM

[analog pewter]

that'd be fun, i think maybe as a conical tablet thing like data reshaper

[unkempt moss]

Its one side with fire grenades and a v9s with four mags. The other is a riot shield and Gas

[sudden pewter]

eclipse shade Chuck…..

[analog pewter]

maybe instead of full reconstruction, it reconstructs a holographic simulacrum of the original geometry that players and weapons cant pass through, but physics objects can

[sudden pewter]

Physics objects like?

[unkempt moss]

Apples

[analog pewter]

destroyed structures, deployed gadgets and specs, barrels

[serene glade]

or you can play the snowball mode again

[unkempt moss]

Maybe we can get a Gaza map

[analog pewter]

i want cashball back it gave so many fans and i didnt play enough

[simple falcon]

Why nerf demat fr?

[serene glade]

cuz using it as a runaway tool is stupid

[compact tundra]

Sorry didn't mean that politically, just picked the most police like weapons and thought manhunt would be fun. Just deleted it, might be too polarizing

[sudden pewter]

Demat is in a perfectly viable state atm, I don’t see why it requires another nerf

[indigo nexus]

That you do not have a meaningful reason to believe that the buff was a bad thing, and following on from that, that many guns not being buffed is not evidence for this.

[simple falcon]

it has made heal beam the only smart choice

[serene glade]

thats just not true

[simple falcon]

you have to be insanely experienced with demat to ever use it correctly

[unkempt moss]

More like defat amirite

[simple falcon]

also how is a runaway tool the reason medium gets a nerf?

[serene glade]

"its only good if youre good with it" 🫣

[simple falcon]

exactly

[unkempt moss]

Stop running

[indigo nexus]

As far as I can tell it is pretty unknown how relatively viable demat is outside of ruby

[simple falcon]

heal beam takes minimal skill

[indigo nexus]

Mm… less than demat, but more than turret

[simple falcon]

true

[sudden pewter]

Demat is very simple, it doesn’t require much thought to get value out of

[indigo nexus]

You do have to manage using it at appropriate times and making sure you are in the right position to use it, when it is needed

[unkempt moss]

I think making turret work takes way more skill and game knowledge than both.

[indigo nexus]

Demat has a very high ceiling just because of how many situations one can get some sort of value out of it exist

[simple falcon]

worst take ive ever heard. apoligies

[unkempt moss]

Do you think turret gets a lot of value easily?

[simple falcon]

zero value. useless

[indigo nexus]

I think that’s just a discrepancy in what we each mean

I would argue turret gets a lot of the value it has to offer relatively easily, I would not argue that it is easy to get a lot of value out of at higher ranks.

[simple falcon]

Oh wait heavy and light are the best classes. fuck medium nerf demat

[unkempt moss]

I think the consensus is that light is the worst class

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure

[serene glade]

@simple falcon how would you feel if you didnt have breakfast this morning

[simple falcon]

hungry

[unkempt moss]

I dont agree with that but that seems to be the most parroted take

[sudden pewter]

Class
You’re all wrong

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

Heavy is rightfully the strongest.

[simple falcon]

This season. However last season it was light imo

[unkempt moss]

Its always been heavy.

Light is the most annoying. Medium is the most boring. This is the way it has always been.

As catter says, we cannot change from this. This is the finals

[sudden pewter]

Not sure about “strongest”. Heavy has(had) clearly defined weaknesses, lack of mobility and range. Light is very powerful but more prone to being punished.

[unkempt moss]

Heavy is the strongest because I play it.

[sudden pewter]

We gotta axe this victim complex in the bud

[serene glade]

heavy is the heaviest because i play it

[unkempt moss]

No. Heavy is for champions. Our weapons are the strongest. Our specs the strongest. Our gadgets

the strongest

[sudden pewter]

Heavy has the weakest weapon in the game (Spear) but beyond that I don’t feel there’s a single bad choice in terms of weapons.

[unkempt moss]

Exactly

[stoic garden]

heavy is the most fun class too because of that, you can run anything lmao

[unkempt moss]

I mean most people can run anything on any class and do well with a little effort.

[sudden pewter]

Heavy is the least played of the 3 archetypes, if Heavy was truly the strongest I feel the scales would shift to prove that

[unkempt moss]

It just takes the most brain power.

[stoic garden]

heavy heavy medium/light:

[unkempt moss]

Not only are we the most handsome, we are also the most intelligent.

[sudden pewter]

Heavy(as a brawler) is prone to being the first in, last out. Taking the opener role puts them at the most risk because if things go tits up:

• A light has the mobility to run away.
• A medium can disengage.
  Heavy can’t run effectively, and doesn’t have mobility utilities to disengage. (At least not quickly or without prior setup) So they’re at the biggest risk since they’re generally the tip of the spear.

[red pumice]

Coordinating with your teammates? What’s that?

[unkempt moss]

I dont actually believe the things I'm saying. I'm just being a jackass

[red pumice]

Uh huh

[unkempt moss]

Isn't junior the ceo of alfa?

[red pumice]

Yes, yes I am

[sudden pewter]

Correct, the CEO of AlfaActa is Junior

[unkempt moss]

Why do you have a vaiya tag

[red pumice]

Shhhhhh he knows too much

[unkempt moss]

Sounds like a vaiyalation of contract

[stoic garden]

🚪

[red pumice]

^

[unkempt moss]

I'm here all week

[red pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-mini-gun-gif-18507819

[unkempt moss]

Posts mini clip, profile is a medium main.

This guy is weird.

[stoic garden]

guy's the definition of contradictory

[red pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/final-fantasy-vii-remake-cloud-strife-tifa-lockhart-aerith-gainsborough-cloti-gif-27060423

[unkempt moss]

Is a PC player... but uses controller

[red pumice]

Nah I use mnk like a sane person

[sudden pewter]

Anyhow, the victim complex or Us vs Them mentality proliferating of late is very fucking stupid. Just because Light isn’t “meta” doesn’t mean Light as a whole is weak. Jumping on the bandwagon and using what’s strongest because a YouTuber told you to is a hallmark of stupidity and smoothbraindedness. OFC the meta will dominate if you never try to contest it.

[unkempt moss]

The problem with lightbis and always will be the playerbase unless substantial nerfs hit out of nowhere.

[sudden pewter]

When Poke was(is) all the rage, Vanishbomb rose from the grave like the fucking undertaker

[sudden pewter]

That’s a given, Light players (on average) are very fucking stupid. The bell curve unfortunately leans heavily to the left.

It’s okay to like being the Glass Cannon, but you need to stomach the glass instead of bitching and moaning about

[serene glade]

i tried running smoke, but my fat ass was getting repeatered through it

[sudden pewter]

Clearly cheating. Make sure you post their EMBARK ID in #👂┇game-feedback and no video or evidence

[unkempt moss]

I joined the light main channel while you were gone. It was insane.

[serene glade]

i saw you had an L tag, i thought you were larping

[red pumice]

What goes on there ?

[sudden pewter]

“I lost a 1v1 to an enemy that has over x2 my health and knew I was coming”

[serene glade]

fuck my chungus life

[unkempt moss]

Its as bad as you can imagine. How we meme about lights is how they actually interact with each other.

[red pumice]

💀

[sudden pewter]

The other side of the coin is “I died basically instantly and had almost no opportunity to react” or “Lights are so hypermobile I can’t punish them because they run away or melt me”

Mediums (bless them) are generally void of such complaints, but we have definitely had an influx of idiots that have only a surface level understanding of the gadget/weapon ecosystem and complain about things being nerfed

Demat being a token option

Prior to its nerf it was S tier at every role, pushing, chasing, defending, etc. Losing a charge means you can open two walls, or make a door to escape. It losing a charge left wiggle room for the other option (HealBeam) to occupy. Followed by some well needed buffs, HealBeam is now the top choice

[compact tundra]

😢

[serene glade]

the argument of its only good if you know how to use it was an interesting angle

[sudden pewter]

Turret still needs work and I understand why Embark has taken so long to touch it, it’s an autonomous ability so balancing it in a way where it’s effective but doesn’t shaft Lights is a very sharp line to balance

Grapple is fine right now but Dash is just too good to ever choose grapple. Cloak has its own issues stemming both from Lights assuming they’re truly invisible and not cloaked (also that they’re loud as fuck when they run) and ofc the cosmetics ruining the cloak

[serene glade]

if invis was good i still feel like the issue there is its on a gadget. so again youd have no reason to choose cloak over dash

[sudden pewter]

Even then, with cloak as bad as it is, we still get mouthbreathers that claim it’s too OP and they “can’t do anything against it”

Ideally Cloak would be more supportive of ambush play, but the most prominent ambush options (Double Barrel & Dagger) both have major balance issues that make them problematic*