💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sharp quest]

I run arn rn, some guy was telling me me to swap to m11, of v95 or whatever’s it’s called

[analog pewter]

yea but it being meta was a little lame
arguably less lame than repeater tho omg

[sharp quest]

Yh the nerf was sad tho

[broken mulch]

Arn is a perfectly good weapon

[analog pewter]

i wish i was playing when the fabled MMM defib model meta was a thing cause that sounds fucking hilarious

[stoic garden]

embark has this habit of nerfing the main meta thing and buffing the competitor as fuck, making the former irrelevant

[chilly granite]

???? my physio therapist is a guy and he's great, he works with a bunch of sports teams

[analog pewter]

nerfing our most interesting spec that exemplifies our unique gameplay and buffing the spec that is the most ordinary boring shit every other team based shooter has is the most brainless design decision ive ever seen

[viscid carbon]

The did my FCAR real dirty so I’ve learned to use the FAMAS now

[sharp quest]

Yeah Deadass I was playing heal beam for like the second time earlier won the game and it felt like fucking overwatch or marvel rivals

[chilly granite]

the arn is the best weapon on light if you prefer long fights
if you focus cqb, then v9 or m11 is better

[analog pewter]

famas is genuinely imo like, pretty fair
I think it could stand to have a slight DPS nerf but otherwise imo it's the benchmark i think other medium weapons should be balanced around. it's just tight

[viscid carbon]

Demat nerf was inevitable since it was literally the only spec mediums ever ran, but that’s also true for dash on light and (previously) winch on heavy

[sharp quest]

Yeah I already used the m11 originally and noticed it was best for close range

[analog pewter]

winch is still really good too it's just that it has counters now and isn't a universal solution to enemy players existing. demat was made worse for nothing, it just made medium more boring and didn't really expand the sandbox

I'd prefer demat be OP than heal be the only viable medium spec

[viscid carbon]

They gutted medium and made it a lil b*tch with poke repeater and healing

[analog pewter]

now we're in a healing shield meta. holy shit overwatch 1 we're so back

[viscid carbon]

AKM is mid, FCAR got gutted, Pike got gutted, P90 is just mid

[analog pewter]

2 tanks? double shield? healing? poke damage? this truly is overwatch classic

[analog pewter]

my opinion is that most automatics have too much recoil, the strong recoil patterns emulating counter strike are weird in a game as fast and chaotic as this

[viscid carbon]

My problem is they nerf automatics to the point where f*cking poke weapons can win duels up close easily, which is literally where automatics should excel

You can straight beam a repeater user up close with an AKM and they can still kill you lol

Not to mention midrange and further, that’s just a lost cause

[sharp quest]

Pike ain’t that bad imo, was playing earlier and it was still fun, won me a wt, it’s not op but it’s not bad

[chilly granite]

the modelloses to repeater in cqb too lol

the repeater is just straighttoo good

I think model is the best balanced medium weapon, and with it as baseline, all the ranged options are overpowered

[viscid carbon]

Repeater and BFR should get axed

Literally just snipers without glint

[chilly granite]

repeater basically a direct upgrade to sr84

[viscid carbon]

BFR too

Embark’s solution: nerf the FCAR lol

[chilly granite]

bfr is more arguable

[viscid carbon]

True

[chilly granite]

the repater has basiucally no aspect where it's a downgrade from the sr84

the bfr has a bunch of areas where you can reasonable say it's worse

and it's actualyl realistic to try to win a sniper duel vs bfr with sr84

trying to duel a cb with sr84 is a mistake

[viscid carbon]

Nerf repeater to 83 damage and nobody’s gonna use it lol

Gonna be hard to balance

[chilly granite]

no

repeater is not fun, it's already underused even as the most op weapon in the game

they need to make light 180hp so you can actually have 88 damage on repeater without it being a massive grief

[unkempt moss]

Bout time someone listens to me.

[viscid carbon]

And they keep making it even more boring

Wait wrong reply

Was talking about this, medium truly is the victim class

[chilly granite]

medium a victim of their own success

[viscid carbon]

They don’t have the speed of light nor the survivability of heavy, nor the DPS of either except the Repeater which is an outlier

[chilly granite]

!?!?!?

[viscid carbon]

FCAR is a shadow of a shadow of its former self now that they further nerfed it for some reason

[chilly granite]

the only thing the meidum has is the survivability of a heavy and dps of a light

the problem with medium class is their gadgets are bunk

fcar is 200dps to m11's 240dps

[viscid carbon]

Medium does not have the survivability of heavy lol

[chilly granite]

medium has 66% more hp than light, and only 20% less dps

not literally, but medium has excessive hp for their damage

the problem is that their damage/hp is too good so they get nerf hammered constantly in the gadgets/spec, and now they don't have any good gadgets left

[viscid carbon]

Heavy barely has slower TTK than medium

[chilly granite]

medium has better ranged dps than heavy?

[viscid carbon]

By a little

[chilly granite]

!?!?!?!?

[viscid carbon]

Lewis and BFR

[chilly granite]

how overpowered do you want medium to be

and you're ignoring that medium has significantly better mobility than heavy to enable that ranged dps advantage, or to gap close ona heavy to punish their long ranged weapons

the reason medium is unpopular in pro is not that their weapons are too weak, but because their gadgets/specs are a pile of dogshit

heal beam is 50hp/s compared to 180hp/s on h+

[viscid carbon]

You make a good point actually, my bad

[chilly granite]

jump pad/zip vs gateway
glitch trap vs glitch grenade

[viscid carbon]

It’s just that Heavy has significantly better util which is why it feels so frustrating to fight them as Medium

[chilly granite]

meidums damage was overtuned from the start, and instead of simply nerfing all mediums weapons or hp down to where it should be, embark has continually gutted mediums specs and gadgets

[viscid carbon]

Funny how medium is supposed to be the support class but it has the worst util lol

[unkempt moss]

Bow-kun defending heavy? Never thought I would see it.

[chilly granite]

I mean, medium having as much dps and hp as they have has always pissed me off, it totally upsets the balance of the game

[unkempt moss]

The GOUF patch fixes this. Don't worry. Eventually embark will give in.

[chilly granite]

medium is too tanky so only light feels the pain of stepping on a pyromine

[viscid carbon]

Medium needs DPS to compensate for its bad util

[chilly granite]

no, medium needed dps to be nerfed in season 1 instead of embark doubling down on mistaeks

medium needs dps nerfs now so that embark can buff util without making medium OP

[unkempt moss]

It would be kind of cool if medium became the assault class. Maybe i need to adjust the patch

[chilly granite]

adding gateway was a mistake though, it totally makes jump pad and zipline redundant

[viscid carbon]

Light has stuff like M11 and DB as well as dash and glitch nade, Heavy has RPG, dome shield, winch

Medium’s util is too shit for their weapons not to be slightly overtuned

[chilly granite]

m11 and db are not enough to compensate for hp gap

try playing m11 and db grapple vs good meidums

[unkempt moss]

If we tuned down the killing power, and tuned up the support. Could light work as the support class?

[chilly granite]

that's already the case gooking

[viscid carbon]

Just use dash like 90% of lights?

[chilly granite]

oh my, i'm obligated to use one fucking spec how balanced and good game

not only one spec, but the least fun spec

actualyl dash is better than invis

[viscid carbon]

You kinda have to use dash with M11 and DB

Personally I prefer cloak with XP but I don’t play light often

[unkempt moss]

Typically support is the squishiest. Maybe that's the play. Make light support and medium the dps class.

[chilly granite]

but they both suck terribly compared to grapple in fun factor

m11 and db are the weapons that actaully give you the most leeway on spec to most extent, because they have the most dps to support off meta choices

[unkempt moss]

And heavy is the cool class.

The gouf patch may have to be adjusted for this

[viscid carbon]

Tbh light and heavy both do support better than medium

[chilly granite]

sr84 is passable with grapple

arn is rough with grapple

v9s is rough with grapple

[compact tundra]

I'd actually disagree with this. M11 and DB are 2 of the most dash dependent weapons. Weapons like sniper, sword, ARN, and LH1 give much more Versatility with specs

[unkempt moss]

Have i been balancing wrong this whole time? I may have been

[viscid carbon]

Light has glitch, h+ and gateway, Heavy has dome and mesh and healing emitter that can heal multiple people at once

Medium has healing beam and uh, jump pad and zipline I guess?

[viscid carbon]

These ones are simply much more crucial

[chilly granite]

matter and bow are the most dash dependant, objectively

they don't have ttks to support cqb fighting without it and are expected to perform in cqb

[unkempt moss]

Unjust what do you think of that change? Detune light weapons, uptune their support to make them the support class

[chilly granite]

DB and grapple is objecitvely excellent, for the same reason as dagger grapple

[compact tundra]

Also I've been brainstorming for that gamemode I was talking about the other day, and after playing cashball for the first time it's actually pretty similar to what I was going for just with 1 big caveat. Box Ball Brawl wasn't going to have any build, spec, weapon, or gadget limitations

[chilly granite]

and personally, I've found much more success with m11 grapple than with other options because you can just win the dps race against other classes with m11 if you hit enough headshots, which is basically just not true wiht lights other weapons

[unkempt moss]

Cloak and Dagger is the canon class.

So anything else is blasphemy

[viscid carbon]

Cloak is arguably super fun if you know what you’re doing

[chilly granite]

ARN and sr84 can do roof sitting with grapple, but teh arn likes to have the choice to dive, but without dash to support it, it doesn't have the ttks to perform

cloak is still op vs new players or people with bad eyes or too high graphics settings

[compact tundra]

Yes but I'd knock DB into that very dash dependent list as well cause if it's clip and rage limitations, your basically always having to 1-2 shot you opponent to win a 1v1. And in team fight being able to quickly close distances, dodge in and out of fights, and flank behind people are required for the weapon ti work

[viscid carbon]

Just cloak and stand still for reloads and whatnot while they’re shooting your teammates, then just spawn out of nowhere and delete oblivious baboons

[chilly granite]

null and grapple support db exceleenlyl as u can grapple out and reengauge or grapple in to gap close on an isolated enemy

[viscid carbon]

Btw what do y’all think of breach charge

[compact tundra]

I think their weapons are actually low enough already with the exception of 93R, ARN, and V9S. Otherwise they're kinda already lackluster given their small health pool

[chilly granite]

grapple is debatably a better synergy than dash for db

[compact tundra]

It's goated and peak

[chilly granite]

objectively correct

93r might be fine now? not really sure I'm too bad at using it to judge it properly

[compact tundra]

Did it get nerfed recently?

[analog pewter]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1006341705924087919/1081135279081005107/caption.gif

[viscid carbon]

XP-54 should just get 900 RPM honestly, this change would make it a P90 with better damage but smaller magazine

[analog pewter]

light victim mentality

[chilly granite]

I clarified with numbers

plz don't quote pre-clarification statements and use them to critique my point

[viscid carbon]

880 looks bad lol

Like they were just too afraid to make it 900

[humble cliff]

Flamethrower skin that's just hair spray and a lighter

[chilly granite]

xp needs less rpm and +1 damage, it's biggest problem is mag size

[compact tundra]

The M11?

[compact tundra]

People like you make this chat fun

[viscid carbon]

100 slower rpm, smaller magazine, slower reloads

[chilly granite]

if you keep the dps/ttks the same, and give the xp +1 damage, then it's significantly less bad

but the change the xp needs is actualyl just arn nerfs

[viscid carbon]

That would be good too, but isn’t that how it used to be before it got nerfed though?

[humble cliff]

I think they should do a drastic switch up of the meta

[chilly granite]

afaik the rpm wasn't buffed enough to make ti equivalent ttks

but as long as the arn exists, there's no reason to use xp which only has 50ms ttk advantage in cqb and 17m lesss range, and worse reload, and worse reocil

[humble cliff]

Xp is best light weapon imo

[compact tundra]

I've actually thought about swapping the range uses of the XP and the ARN. The ARNs versatile design by nature makes it already a good weapon. And I wonder what it's look like if the ARN was the versatile mid ranged option while the XP was the long ranged option due to a less punishing falloff. Tho conceptually this doesn't make sense with the XP being a high fire rate SMG and the ARN being a slower fire rate AR

[chilly granite]

I think arn is even more op if it's allowed to be acceptable in cqb because the fastmags are fucked

the only thing keeping fast mags in check is that the arn is a sniper where you don't actualyl really benefit from fast mags

[humble cliff]

I feel like the XP is perfect

[chilly granite]

I'm jealous of your ignorance

[humble cliff]

Me too

[compact tundra]

Its already acceptable in close range. And I would just make the XP have less punishing fall off while the ARN has a more punishing fall off so it actually gets hurt past that 40m max range

[chilly granite]

if they kept the dps wehre it is and just made a 22.5 falloff scalign 52, as the xp is now, then that would be fine, but I don't think embark is that smart

giving xp a .72 falloff like v9s would be amazing

[fluid jolt]

Thank you bro
I'll keep using sledge

[chilly granite]

I think xp wtih a .72 is honestly fine anway, not even op

[humble cliff]

😢 I have no idea how this works twin

[compact tundra]

Is that current? I thought it was .5

[chilly granite]

its .52 rn

Im saying I think it's not op even if buffed to .72

[compact tundra]

I think it's fine where it is, the V9s still has good stats and use cases without a buff

[chilly granite]

I can't see embark doing it cuz muh realism

[compact tundra]

My mach 3 sword spits in your realisms face

[chilly granite]

.52 is way too low, makes it effectively useless in falloff, the m11 beats it cuz the m11 is .52 in falloff too

[compact tundra]

Na bro I see some nasty V9s headshot snipers. Had a fucker the other week hitting heads at 50m+ with that thing and it shredded

[chilly granite]

no v9s, xp

[compact tundra]

Ohh the XP

That makes a lot more sense

[chilly granite]

v9s is .65, was .62

practically same becasue 39 .65 is very close to 40 .62

I think allt he breakpoints are the same, but don't quote me on it

but yeah, I think with lower dps and higher recoil of the xp, I think .72 is totalyl fine

but I woulnd't want to buff the xp until I nerf the arn adn see how that plays out

[compact tundra]

Yea and then think if the ARNs Max falloff damage was nerfed to increase break points to conpensate. It's still be versatile and good at range but the ranged option would be the XP. Like the F-car is to the FAMAS

[chilly granite]

main thing is that falloff start on arn needs to be gutted

37.5 start is crazy when xp is 22.5 falloff start

[compact tundra]

I'd probably make it 35-45

Actually maybe 32-44. That feels better

[chilly granite]

I think it's only 5m falloff

32.5 to 37.5 or 42.5 is probably reasonable

for some reason embark has a problem with numbers that aren't 2.5/5/10

like I think all the v9s needed was 10-17.5m falloff

[compact tundra]

Huh that's a really small falloff range but I could get behind it ig

32-38, that would work well too and gives it an extra meter of adjustment

[chilly granite]

ye rn it's 37.5 to 42.5 which is why it feels liek it either beams or does nothing

[stoic garden]

it beams with 25% less effectiveness that's all

still kinda a lot since it's so easy to control and has 2 mags 🤔

[chilly granite]

yes but I also hit less shots at 42.5m vs 37.5m

so it feels like, half as effective at 42.5

[stoic garden]

thank god cuh

[chilly granite]

28*% less effectiveness btw

but yeah, the arn is for sure op

[stoic garden]

🤷🏿‍♂️ might just be that xp is underpowered

[chilly granite]

nah

[compact tundra]

Nah bro Arn is a problem, stall rats with it are genuinely making me play stardew valley

[chilly granite]

if the arn didn't exist, the xp would be a good midrange option for light

[stoic garden]

i kinda like stardew valley

[chilly granite]

i don't think that's a hot take

[compact tundra]

It's rare but when I see an exceptional ARN stall rat I call it quits after that game

[stoic garden]

also another day, another lewis massacre but i didnt screenshot

[chilly granite]

the problem is why to take the xp instead of the arn

when all the arns numbers bigger

[compact tundra]

Oh I'm in love with the game. But playing it has made me realize how much fun other games are compared to the "I HOPE WE GET AN ACTUAL UPDATE" shooter

[stoic garden]

it's funny that my favorite options also happen to be meta adjacent

[chilly granite]

I need to play dash hhhh

[stoic garden]

so i dont really give a fuck for now since i have no hope for the balance of this game

[compact tundra]

I mean that's fine, I don't think there's anything wrong with running meta if it's what you enjoy, I just wish the game wasn't so lopsided to a specific playstyle

[chilly granite]

I don't really care at all if the meta was fun

but the meta is shit and it feels shit knowing you couldve won if yuo played the shit unfun shit

[stoic garden]

one day i do want most gadgets to be equally viable within their own niche tho, dont wanna run the same fuckass loadout forever

[chilly granite]

I really dont understand why they let the least fun shit be the meta

why was the meta invis and dash and never grapple? grapple is just more fun for everyone

[compact tundra]

Bro play point break, I swear that gamemode has no meta, everything works, the fucking vortex works in that game mode

[stoic garden]

i much prefer ranked

[compact tundra]

That's fair but in point break literally every weapon has a good use case. Flamethower, minigun, sword, dagger, sniper, LH1, literally anything your heart desires can be used effectively

[stoic garden]

meeting the 8 john finals running goo gun:

[chilly granite]

Meta still somewhat exists, but in 8v8, the meta includes multiple types of weapons

[stoic garden]

i need to see 5v5 cashout 🥺

[chilly granite]

like you probably want an m11 and an arn palyer. You wanta cb palyer or two. You want a gateway. you want a grav vortex

[compact tundra]

Bro I swear 3v3 bank it would be peak, trust

[stoic garden]

i wish i was good when steal the spotlight was out

[chilly granite]

it does sound fun

[compact tundra]

Thing is tho those are roles, not hard metas. Like we could have a Cerb medium, or a flamethrower heavy, or a spear heavy, or a DB light. Everything works just gotta fill a role

[chilly granite]

5v5 cashout is probably the right answer though

[stoic garden]

arn: everything role

[chilly granite]

what I mean, is that you do see the relative powerlevel of weapons

[stoic garden]

i love arn but i think it should get a nerf of some kind, i've always thought that giving it 25 bullets per mag would be a big way of reeling back its power

[compact tundra]

Until my fat ass role playing as a Vietnam soldier winches the small child so they may experience an intimate relationship with my napalm

[chilly granite]

god dsah is just disguting op

[stoic garden]

im going to kill you

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-clash-golem-sneaky-golem-sneaky-golem-in-the-pocket-gif-2425767250376705080

[chilly granite]

man I just swapped dsah and got a kill where i would've 100% died on grapple

[stoic garden]

personally im a cloak main but i think both are essential light specs that should kinda remain unless they are somehow replaced by something better for everyone

[chilly granite]

something better for everyone couhg couhg grapple couhg couhg

[stoic garden]

for cloak i'd just be happy if they made it so ur completely invisible when still and your cosmetic style isnt factored in when moving, making it like tf2 would NOT fit the dynamism of the finals very much imo

[chilly granite]

they should make invis cloak use traning dummy model

there should be a single invis model

but I think completely invisible at all times a small delay when decloaking is fine

not tf2 scale delay

[stoic garden]

😔

[chilly granite]

cloak in tf2 is a 2s delay, I think finals would be fine with 300ms

true invis wiht no sound effect is usually worse than 300ms warning anyway

the current cloaks inconsistency is often more than 300ms disadvatnage, anyway

[stoic garden]

live embark reaction: 😶

[muted condor]

What if we removed light

[chilly granite]

hot take

nerf invis and dash into the ground

make grapple meta by default

and then make light balanced

and then slowly work dash and invis into viability as sidegrades

[stoic garden]

i dont play light so idc also cloak is already dead

[unkempt moss]

This game is toast. What a waste.

[muted condor]

Arc raiders is my new pvp game

Finals is dead

[placid slate]

Bro that'd take embark 3 years at their current pace

[sudden pewter]

Skibidi

[unkempt moss]

Do not post in this sewer when youre in Vegas. That's too much degeneracy at once.

[muted condor]

Catter is in Vegas?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah

[potent scaffold]

Give turret 2 peaceable turrets instead of 1 >:)

[muted condor]

You’re within touching distance of me now

[sudden pewter]

I’m by the circus circus

[unkempt moss]

We both are. ||eloping||

[chilly granite]

man I just won a game cuz I lectured my mediums not to chase defibs instead of focus objective lol

[compact tundra]

Omg he's leveled up his yap skill, bros winning games through yapping, this needs to be studied

[muted condor]

Give me seven hours I’ll be there

[chilly granite]

hahhaha

[serene glade]

@unkempt moss check out Mandalay Bay

[compact tundra]

The fuck, is weps&gadgs taking a field trip to Vegas

[unkempt moss]

WepsNgadg meat up in vegas?

[muted condor]

Imagine I actually just jumped into my car and drove 450 miles on a Friday night

[compact tundra]

Sadly I'm stuck in the bumfuck south, but I'll be there in spirit

[unkempt moss]

Thats the night to do it.

[muted condor]

They say not to talk to strangers on the internet so I’m making sure to meet them in person 🗣️

[compact tundra]

Solid strat honestly, it's an underrated one

[unkempt moss]

Imma show you guys why they call me GooKing

[muted condor]

😏

[unkempt moss]

I'm only 5 hours away.

[muted condor]

I honestly probably would but then I’d have to drive back

[unkempt moss]

Who knows where the weekend would take us.

[sudden pewter]

Indian Food

[unkempt moss]

If this goes well we wouldn't have to drive back until Monday.

[marsh cosmos]

I don't really don't like curry

[sudden pewter]

You’re not invited

[royal drum]

The CL-40 must be anihilated

it must go

[sudden pewter]

Sorry Gaben you have no power here

[royal drum]

i will spread my influence
the cl-40 must go

[edgy estuary]

Why? It’s pretty useless outside a light lobby

[royal drum]

Its not useless when theres a 3 stack in a ranked game

[edgy estuary]

If you are losing cashout to 3 CL40s, you are doing something wrong.

Or a light having a bad time

[royal drum]

To be fair i had a turret medium random who did not know how to play

[chilly granite]

my macro is trash wihotut grapple

I'm winning more fights but losing more games lol

[edgy estuary]

Maybe don’t blame everything else and just think about what you could do to beat that next time? Destroy their high ground, and pads, be a heavy, APS, bait their grenades, attack from range.

CL40 is annoying, I 100% get that part, but it is very beatable.

[unkempt moss]

If you release the GabeCube for sub 700 I'll make whatever balance changes you need.

[chilly granite]

"be a heavy"

[royal drum]

i was
my only guess was I was using my abilities badly or something

[chilly granite]

positioning is key vs cl40

[unkempt moss]

Heavy is the best. The smartest. The most handsomest.

Its hard to even call the CL40 annoying in its current state.

[chilly granite]

i have two (2) flamethrower, winch heavies

and they're blaming me

thank god I was so 8th seed it was only -5

fucking ruby lobby lmao

one guy was a s5/6 ruby, at least

and to be 8th seed with 66k rs, and only lose -5 for scoring 8th place

it must have been at least high plat lobby lol

Btw gooking I got lvl13 flash so I'm gonna swap it out for goonade

[unkempt moss]

Flamethrower Heavy x2 sounds bad ass.

[chilly granite]

I'm gonna try swapping sonae for gateway too

Their clan tag was fat33

It would've been badass if they didn't also do double winch claw

Double winch double flame is not good

[unkempt moss]

If theyre in sync it is.

[chilly granite]

Tbh their gadgets were probably biggest problem

Mine mine lovkbolt

No domes, RPGs or c4

[unkempt moss]

Thats like 8 minutes of stu.

[chilly granite]

I gatewayed us above cashbox and they just jumped off the roof and walked through the door because no breach lmao

They were not in sync either, even though they were party

I was more in sync with one of them than his teammate was lol

[edgy estuary]

Yeah CL40 is pretty bad against heavies.

[chilly granite]

Really cringe ass game

Anyway hopefully my arm will hurt less tomorrow

Grapple/bow/null/(frag|goo)/gateway

Is what I'm gonna experiment with

[edgy estuary]

Unless you have height

[chilly granite]

One cl40 is, I don't think 3 cl40 are bad against heavy

3 cl40 will break a building pretty damn fast

[edgy estuary]

True, multiple of anything can be a bit intense

[chilly granite]

Cl40s biggest weaknesses being self damage and rate of fire

Massed cl40s are pretty monstrous

Jump spam doesn't work against massed cl40s since skilled players will effectively alternate shots

[edgy estuary]

I do not miss pre self damage CL40, B2B games of powershift with just noobtubes jumping around spamming their feet

[chilly granite]

The main way to counter cl40 spam is probably just to fight the other teams or blow up their house and shoot at them from a million miles away

Assuming you can't just skill gap them, because players doing such weird tactics probably aren't the strongest

I played against triple cl40 earlier and we just skill gapped them lol

[edgy estuary]

Yeah I mean most people who are choosing CL40: a) they don’t want to aim hard b) they struggle with aiming the actual guns c) light lobby fear

[unkempt moss]

The funny thing is its way harder to make the CL40 work well than it is the ARs. CL is so inconsistent on the servers and loses to space bar.

The "low skill" weapon is way harder to use in an effectibe manner.

[edgy estuary]

Occasionally I do come across some absolute god with the CL40, like I am sure they get a lot of abuse, but yeah by no means is it a small feat to actually master any of the weapons in this game.

[chilly granite]

It's harder to make it high value, and easier to make it some value

The players see light hp keep going down with every shot so it feels better than fcar where a bunch of shots never land

And sometimes you get lucky or play against a weak player, and it gains a lot of value

People remember success and forget failures, it's a key cognitive bias that will skew well in favour of the cl40

Because success is so powerful

Like, I could play arn or M11 and just win more games, but it's less juicy for my brain than using bow hahahaha

Bow also has the benefit of fitting my playstyle very well

But my arm was hurting way too much today my aim was awful

I just read back what I wrote and it's like my brain is a river

Just kinda goes where it wants, there's some kinda common thread but it's not really intentional

My adhd meds have probably worn off

[unkempt moss]

Its okay. Match 17th will save us from this travesty

[chilly granite]

I've had more trouble getting consistent value from sonar recently, a lot of times my teammates don't use the information meaningfully, and depending on the situation the bow can often struggle to profit too

I should probably just practice using it but I like frag lol

I think gateway can be a good defensive and offensive gadget like flashbang is, and offer more utility to the team if I have a team who are responsive

Ill try running null sonar gateway tomorrow

My macro is too weak with dash and I'm good enough without dash in fights, that is probably better for me to just play grapple

Being able to yoink boxes with grapple is hilarious and also amazing for dragging weak teammates over the finish line

If I had better teamplay and gateway usage, then dash would certainly be better

But I also just enjoy fighting with grapple more, it's more satisfying and feels more skillful, and my mouse sensitivity is too slow for cqb dashing anyway lmao

Grapple is also good for double dunking and then running away and yeeting back in to block a steal which has been a pretty clutch manoeuvre for me ranking up lol

I'm gonna focus on trying to get more value out of my sonars rather than just dumping them lol

[sudden pewter]

Next season will fix the game trust

[unkempt moss]

Monster Hunter Stories 3 and Alex in March? It's so over.

[indigo nexus]

Wow, that’s the smallest max loss I’ve seen

The other teams must have genuinely been all ruby stacks for only -5

[slow linden]

Give heavy a pilebunker

[cobalt wraith]

what’s a pilebunker

[slow linden]

https://youtu.be/fQuUJw1GN50?si=bvNnP1Wnpe3p0lK5

[slow linden]

This^

[cobalt wraith]

waow that would be awesome

[unkempt moss]

Give heavy a Gunlance

With the shield.

[cobalt wraith]

whats a gunlance 😭

[unkempt moss]

Weapon from the greatest game series to ever grace this awful plane of existence.

[cobalt wraith]

and what game would that be ?

[unkempt moss]

Monster Hunter.

[cobalt wraith]

ill have to check it out lol

[slow linden]

Give heavy the bomb Lance from hunt showdown

They would never give the tank class a shield

Would be too close to proper game design

[indigo nexus]

mesh shield..?

[slow linden]

I mean bound to a weapon,like the police baton on medium

[indigo nexus]

that’d be horrifying

[slow linden]

That'd be really funny

[indigo nexus]

imagine a heavy with a shield blocking half their body and mesh shield, the stall game would be unmatched

[slow linden]

Better than roof camping poke heavies with deagles,automatics and the titan

A tower shield bound to a melee weapon or siege cannon or something on heavy would be really cool

[slow linden]

He wouldn't need mesh shield,cns would probably be the most optimal combo

Unless he has to protect teammates in bad positioning,but they shouldn't be there tbh

[indigo nexus]

not convinced…

[slow linden]

Riot shield is frustrating because it's on a class that can chase and cannot protect,it doesn't really belong on medium,but they have it so whatever,give heavy a shielded armament and I think it will be balanced

[indigo nexus]

I think heavy having access to a plethora of defensive gadgets that medium simply lacks compounds this a lot.

Heavy can already be hard to kill

[slow linden]

Heavy protects,that is heavys purpose,Medium cannot protect,heavy is a better candidate for riot shield,even though I like riot shield on medium

[slow linden]

Any class can be hard to kill with good aim and movement

[indigo nexus]

With the logical end of, heavy should have an arbitrarily high ability to keep itself alive? I don’t agree

[slow linden]

I mean just shoot their feet it's not hard,works on riot shield too

[indigo nexus]

Heavy with a shield, goo gun/mesh, dome shield, barricades would just be too much I think.

[slow linden]

Not to mention heavys shield would probably cover much less of his body,the other man asked for the gunlance from monster hunter,given this hypothetical that still leaves heavys legs and head largely uncovered were gooking to get his wish,I disagree with his wish not because heavy shouldn't have a sustained and limitless shield,but because heavy shouldn't have a sustained and limitless shield with a poke weapon attached to it

I want heavy to just have a big shield that he beats people to death with tbh,a dueling shield could be cool too though

[indigo nexus]

Having a shield which only protects part of the body is also very dangerous for the skill differential issue, it would become way less effective versus players with good aim

riot shield isn’t too bad because when used correctly it covers almost everything

[slow linden]

It would limit the options of players with better aim,so still the heavy has an advantage in close quarters

[slow linden]

And yet shitters complain about it because it's on a class that can chase them down,heavy does not and cannot chase,shield or not he's too damn slow

[indigo nexus]

Yet melee on heavy works fine. They have gadgets to help.

Lockbolt, winch claw, goo gun, and critically the fact that you don’t have to chase people in an objective-focused game in a great deal of circumstances.

[slow linden]

Never said it didn't apart from spear which is riddled with problems from it's core

Heavy is defensive,a big stick is gonna work unless it's a dash light that just dashes backwards down a hallway while shooting the heavy

[indigo nexus]

It works because it can actually chase, running 5% more slowly can matter less than the other tools at your disposal to chase with

[slow linden]

I just think a big shield for heavy will be cool

[spring spear]

i mean he already has 2

[slow linden]

I mean like a big physical shield that he uses as a weapon

[unkempt moss]

Lets just give light the mesh and dome shields, then we can have a big shield/gunlance for heavy. I don't even use those two things, but I would use a shield weapon on heavy

My hope is that some day they have nerfed heavy so hard that it cant be used as an excuse against giving the class fun stuff.

You suggest anything even slightly entertaining you get an onslaught of people talking about how it would break the game and the gadgets are to strong and heavy is over represented in ruby and every strategy is too strong.

Just make heavy unusable at this point. Only way we can get people to entertain the idea of fun shit.

I said the gunlance thing as a joke but damn its annoying every time you suggest something to hear about how strong heavy is.

[slow linden]

Tbh mesh is a lame ass spec,I want fun and cool and whimsical shit I don't care about pure utility and optimization,that shit is for nerds who don't see the sky

[indigo nexus]

I think it’s pretty cool

[slow linden]

Is watching paint dry pretty cool too?

[indigo nexus]

no

[unkempt moss]

Meanwhile the bar for light until the top of ranked is "dont stand out in the open like a dumb ass and wait for your team" and they cant do that so we have to balance the entire damage structure of the game around these apes.

[slow linden]

Truer words never before spoken,but the blame is partially on brainless mediums too,I feel like not enough people complain about medium compared to the other classes

[unkempt moss]

That was always my favorite. You have a defib healgun medium attached to heavy and then the complaint is that heavy is immortal. No shit you cant kill a class with even a minor amount of sustain when he's getting dogwalked by a medium.

[slow linden]

I've known lights with more consideration for their team and strategic skill than literally every medium main I play with,the best mediums I know main other classes

[indigo nexus]

the finals racism 😔

[unkempt moss]

Now we have a heavy getting healed from three sources and on the off chance he goes down defib is sitting there waiting for him. Heavy out here playing a one tank goats comp and then we keep wanting to nerf heavy like the game doesnt expect you to support your tank.

[slow linden]

Sadly the average medium doesn't run heal beam very well,but 90% will defib you to your death while they run away

If you aren't running heal beam I don't want to see defib in your loadout

[slow linden]

It's closer to caste feudalism

[unkempt moss]

Which is why healing is overtuned, and probably why they didnt feel the need to adjust breakpoints for healing. They know their community is so stupid that the vast majority of it won't be able to use it in a meaningful way.

[slow linden]

Defib literally takes longer to get you to a useful state than hand resing

Honestly fuck it give defib to light

The few good mediums should suffer for the cranially malnourished state of their peers

[unkempt moss]

It would be useless on light for two reasons. They are the dumbest mfs on the planet and they would die 70m from their team and be pinging for revive before their team goes down.

[slow linden]

And still somehow do more for the team than the random turret famas medium

[unkempt moss]

Heavy could have a primary weapon that's just a bug zapper that he sets down and cant do anything but quick melee. You would still see lights complaining about how strong it is.

[slow linden]

True

Mediums complain about how their class is neglected and yet they're literally in far healthier states than the other classes

[unkempt moss]

Then you tell them to not walk straight in to the bug zapper and they would say well heavy has the best gadgets and guns in the game.

[slow linden]

Lmao

I genuinely think dash and winch were mistakes,I don't care how nerfed either one becomes,at their core they're annoying and anything annoying and toxic at its core should simply not be

Also nerfing cloak and grapple were the worst nerfs in the history of the games balance and that's coming from a heavy main

[unkempt moss]

I really wish they would rid of winch at this point.

[slow linden]

It's the chains of a slave,a tumor to limit heavy

That's all winch will ever be

[unkempt moss]

I only play heavy, so it would be nice if we could rid of it so we could buff the stuff that has been made too strong by winch.

[stoic garden]

mesh puts me in third person, therefore allowing more sky to fill my screen

[stoic garden]

wtf me

[slow linden]

Mesh has a couple funny builds,but I almost never see them,no mesh Sledge,no mesh spear or minigun,its always sa12,or flame,maybe shak

[stoic garden]

i used to play mesh minigun, then repeater buff hit

[dim plover]

what should i run for heavy?

[slow linden]

Mesh flame and winch flame users as a goo flame main make me sick

[slow linden]

Minigun,any spec,motion sensors,dome or heal orb,barricades

[unkempt moss]

Fun or win

[dim plover]

alr thx, ill try it out

[dim plover]

win, cuz im tryna complete the achivment

[unkempt moss]

Winch, Shak, RPG, dome, healing emitter.

[slow linden]

Shak, winch,rpg,dome,pyro mines or gravity cube

[dim plover]

thx, ill try it after this one

[slow linden]

Do you see how spoiled mediums are?

[stoic garden]

always knew

[slow linden]

Bloated diseased livestock that claim to be mistreated

[stoic garden]

i loved when sword naturally predated medium players lol

[slow linden]

The only bad nerfs medium ever saw was the riot shield and cl40 nerfs

Everything else on medium gets either overtuned for months or only sees perfect balance

[slow linden]

Now sword players are basically the dogs in fromsoft games,they sit inside your hitbox and spam you to death

[stoic garden]

one thing i have gripe with is famas recoil nerf, i dont understand why embark isn't "yo the recoil on all other medium rifles is kinda ass let's make them a bit more accessible" and is instead "let's heighten the entry bar for famas while players with any basic knowledge of recoil control and shot pacing aren't affected at all"

[slow linden]

Genuinely sword was never this frustrating till it was nerfed

[stoic garden]

i fucking love fcar and akm but their recoil feels so fucking ass for no reason

[slow linden]

Used famas not long ago,still dirty as fuck with it,noticed little changes other than I can no longer snipe with it

[stoic garden]

fcar i can handle, but akm feels too bullshit for me ngl

[slow linden]

I can't hit shit with fcar I actually really like akm

[stoic garden]

lmao

i perform ok with both but i like how p90 feels more

[slow linden]

I think p90 will be a plague upon this earth until they give heavy a Thomson or an mp40

[stoic garden]

I can do all playstyles but brawl adjacent shit is my favorite

[stoic garden]

what

i only hate p90 cuz it probably means akm aint ever getting its mag size back

[slow linden]

I don't like fighting p90 without an smg or fully revved minigun,give heavy an mp40 or a thomson with a drum mag and I won't despise it so much

Feels almost indistinguishable to play from m11 and m11 can be fun,but I prefer the mp5 over both

It's strange cause I usually love the p90 in most games but i just don't feel great using it here

[stoic garden]

I'd fight p90 over repeater any day

also hop on m60 cuh

[slow linden]

Prefer Lewis,even when it was shit

[stoic garden]

since you're so much into fighting high rpm with high rpm i thought you'd be into it, i also main lewis lol

[broken mulch]

on both sides, nobody likes m1 spam

[slow linden]

They did it to Sledge too,nobody overheads anymore

Riot shield,spear and duel blades is the only m1spam I'm fine with because they have distinct attack chains rather than just left right blender

[broken mulch]

yea also their m2s are either not attacks or situational
not being able to cancel spin is so dumb

[slow linden]

Spin having a hard limit on the amount of things it can hit at once is spears biggest problem

[broken mulch]

is that a thing?

[slow linden]

You ever camp an elevator with spear spin and notice people can just get away with hard pushing it without being sufficiently punished?

The place where spear should be the strongest is actually where it is almost useless

You'll just multi hit the walls and die after hitting the enemy maybe once

[broken mulch]

no actually i hate using spear, i js think it really needs a buff
prob wont use it after the buff either but i wanna see new things

[slow linden]

Fair

[thick holly]

It would be nice if data Reshaper got its 3rd charge back. Such a fun gadget

[unkempt moss]

This was like a top 3 proof of how out of touch embark is moment.

[thick holly]

Yeah it was the most random nerf to a gadget that didn't need it

Like it was very well balanced at 3 charges. I genuinely don't think anyone was complaining about how oppressive data Reshaper was

[serene glade]

It was cannibalizing or something

[unkempt moss]

Supposedly it was CRUSHING turret players down in low elo

[thick holly]

The thing is, one singular charge also does that

It's very rare that you use all 3 charges on gadgets. The other 1-2 charges are for barrel use, which is a primary and needed function of the gadget

The only gadget to actually interact with barrels in a meaningful way had its barrel usage nerfed, while the part that was crushing turret users is still very prevalent

[unkempt moss]

Hey im with you bud

[thick holly]

Honestly I think turret should get some buffs that would only really make a major difference in higher level play.

Like also targeting goo, dome shields, barricades. Perhaps with some sort of "anti-material" rounds

That way TTK and health wise it stays the same, but it can provide more utility

[unkempt moss]

Wrong channel

[serene glade]

I think a lazy buff but effective would be just let the turret activate faster. That way it's usable in pushes and mid fights more effectively

You have to think minimal with changes since embark isn't going to put in that much effort for anything

[neon barn]

what if the heavy had the tommy gun?

[stoic garden]

i guess

[broken mulch]

turret being less place and forget would be nice

[spark helm]

flying that follows you asking for a brief time (invisibility-wise) with less health and damage?

[broken mulch]

nah cause thats still too place and forget

u use it and then u dont play around it at all like u do with every other specialization

i honestly got no good suggestions i js think it needs to have more active gameplay

[unkempt moss]

what if heavy had the tommy gun?

[stoic garden]

i guess

[kindred gorge]

I would suggest that they could give it a wrangler mechanic and let you manually aim it but it’s not really enough of a threat to make that worth it

[unkempt moss]

C4tter: r6

I know he's here in spirit.

[neon barn]

that's what i said

[sudden pewter]

I’m always around

And yeah dumb idea. The entire point of the turret is that it’s autonomous, and you want to replace your primary weapon (even if temporarily) with turret? (Manual Control)

Could be super niche if you bring a shotgun and then use the turret to poke, but it’s also a turret. Piss poor damage probably on-par with just shooting a shotgun at range

[unkempt moss]

that's what I said

[compact tundra]

@thick holly

[rustic adder]

Make it turn into a massive spider mech

[thick holly]

@compact tundra

this is what I like to do

[compact tundra]

Ratty ass behavior

[thick holly]

hey I mean it works and its not hard to counter lol

[compact tundra]

Makes sense tho you'd lean into your zipline skills like I'd lean into my winch skills

[compact tundra]

Oh no it's kinda their fault for all just ball chasing

[thick holly]

yeah zipline is in my main loadout

lol yea

[kindred gorge]

Totally meant to do that, yeah

[analog pewter]

turret should first be able to see when it's been gooed and shoot the goo off itself
its far too easy to counter it lol
the fact that goo gun completely disables a medium spec w/o any cooldown is so tragic

and it should def ping whoever it's shooting

turret just has too many counters

[inner magnet]

Crazy goal Ngl

[swift agate]

i mean, that's just the consequence of not having a goalkeeper

those shots are not at all difficult to stop so if you don't have anyone to catch them, that's entirely your fault

[compact tundra]

Yea I agree, I basically said that here

[analog pewter]

yes u have to earn my respeck

[swift agate]

repsetk*

[topaz steeple]

Feels like Russian

[rare fiber]

yo

[unkempt moss]

Hi

[unkempt moss]

Did you need help

[serene glade]

Where's padme, is she safe

Is she

Alright?

[tidal urchin]

fix the repeater shit is getting old

[serene glade]

Go fix your bitchlessness

[slow linden]

Buff turret then embark

[sudden pewter]

💅

[fluid jolt]

My Sledgehammer finally managed to get over 20 kills in a Team Deathmatch.
But after that, it was a mess...there were games where I didn't even get 10 kills.
Still not stable

[fallen valley]

Gys if u wan a tip for the american football game mode i suggest you light caus you can score more goals

[unkempt moss]

Thx

[humble pollen]

I ❤️ blades

[thick holly]

True, I should play dual blades more

[flint bone]

Anyone here own the Zestinator RPG?

[runic vector]

Recon sense and thermal vision now PLEASE

Invisible has gotten out of hand and in right hands its a game take over. With it back it brings the balance back, Recon sense was insane in the beginning but with some changed and reworks it could make a nice addition and puts more caution for people who go in Invisible.

[serene glade]

[idle pumice]

invisible is not even broken honestly

[runic vector]

True but it can be in the right hands its play light weight and I dont have the vision where I can see the figure or hear the sounds as best as others. It does sound like a skill issue but it makes it worst for Heavy or medium.

and also EVERYONE loves the DB and invisible combo this way it keeps the game from bring call of duty where there is a meta

[idle pumice]

im sorry to break it to ya but that is exactly a skill issue. when you say 'in the right hands' like yeah thats the point, when someones good at the game anything they use will be broken. jus cus you need glasses doesnt mean that the devs should nerf it

[runic vector]

I'm not saying nerf

I'm saying they should just bring it back

And yes it is a skill issue for me i will admit that but I see no shame in having it back

[alpine sphinx]

Invis is not really a problem, I think it's in a good place right now, but I do think invis grenade is stealing cloak's role too much but invisibility itself is fine

[runic vector]

Exactly that is true

[alpine sphinx]

Since embark likes to nerf things that are "cannibalizing" other gadgets' functionality, it's strange to me that they haven't touched invis bomb yet

[runic vector]

I feel like with all of that it should be back

[alpine sphinx]

What should be back?

[runic vector]

Recon sense and thermal vision

[alpine sphinx]

Why??? That would take away from invis not improve it. And the problem with thermal vision wasn't invisibility counter, it was smoke abuse

[indigo nexus]

it was both

[runic vector]

I'm not saying to nerf ANYTHING, I am saying they should bring it back to even the play field

[stoic garden]

indeed

[stoic garden]

countering an entire specialization with a gadget for a very prolonged duration seems not like having an even playing field

[runic vector]

Well it does make the game more interesting than dying repeatedly to someone hiding and getting you fast, this way it puts up a fight for this. the proximity sensors are great and all but I dont see them work often

And the only gadget that would be nerf would be the Recon sense. Cause they used to be able to see from the other side of the map maybe they could bring it back and make it as a specialization that could see 10-15 meter with a cool down of 10 seconds

And thermal vision is a light weight tool that was just didnt work after season 4 for no reason, after its been re worked I say it should be the same but keep it as a gadget

[alpine sphinx]

No offense, but what rank are you playing at? If you play ranked cash out at all.

[sudden pewter]

Reading this gave me a brain tumor

[alpine sphinx]

Invis can usually be very easily countered with proxi sensor or a general awareness of the game flow and visual cues. Good invis players can be more tricky to deal with, but especially when you know there is an enemy using invis nearby, it is definitely always possible to outplay them, even without specialized gadgets.

Reintroducing complete counters to an entire play style is toxic and bad game design, especially for a game that tries to be competitive.

[sudden pewter]

White roles should be banned from this channel

[runic vector]

Nun taken, I do gold 2

[alpine sphinx]

Then we're moving in the same lobbies, and I have not had issues with invis at all, and I mostly play heavy without motion sensor

[compact tundra]

I hate this game matchmaking so much

[runic vector]

And yes your right everything could just stay as is, but I feel like it would be a good addition and belive it would keep invisible players to move smarter

[alpine sphinx]

It would make the last few lights that use cloak also switch to dash, so no, that would be a bad idea

[alpine sphinx]

Real, it's not rare that you get games with 30k rating differences between players

[compact tundra]

I mean no offense by this, but a dude getting countered by invis is higher rank than me rn (to be fair I don't play ranked that much) but like what are you guys lobbies. Everytime I play there's stacked triple season emeralds running triple heal with a ARN light, Repeater medium, and BFR heavy. Like bro I'm silver 1 why does my ass need to be loosened so

[alpine sphinx]

You need to become based and play heavy with goo gun

[runic vector]

Goo gun is good but never could get my head around it

[runic vector]

I could relate this to a degree thats why I say Recon sense and thermal vision should come back cuz ruby and emerald do this and its to much.

I'm not a pro or an expert, I'm a lightweight main who uses grappling and vanish bomb

[stoic garden]

im so lightweight

[runic vector]

So its not like I dont use the stuff I'm fighting against to, this would mess me up 2

[placid slate]

Depends, i wouldnt call it based if you use it as a 20 shot stun gun

[sudden pewter]

Goo Stun will be adjusted as soon as winch is in a healthy state

It dominates discourse and the moment the hivemind is satisfied they’ll move onto the next big ticket item

[serene glade]

Me but remove the word matchmaking

[compact tundra]

I still have too much fun to justify hating the game as a whole... Yet..... The next season or so will really determine it for me honestly

[compact tundra]

Like literally the last ranked match I played I got to final round, and we were facing a double light & heavy team with a ARN and V9s light that would spread out across roofs (we're on seoul, moving platforms) and beam us from 40-50m away while the minigun heavy would camp the vault, if we pushed together the lights would spray us from distance and the heavy would mow us down after the lights whittled our recourses and health away. If we pushed separate the lights would focus me and my friend (double heavy for that game), and keep us busy and stall us while their heavy would kill our light. We had to sit there and wait to go for vaults until we got an opportunity cause they did this every fucking vault. And if we took too long the heavy would run it after killing our light and their lights would oester and stall us for as long as they could. So beam us from separate roofs, one would push in while the other guarded outside areas from a long range spot. IM SILVER ONE, MY BUDDY WAS BRONZE 1, THE FUCK ARE THESE LOBBIES

[marsh cosmos]

Give everyone sniper rifles. Medium should get the Gol Magnum and Heavy the BFG-50

[teal mortar]

a

[sudden pewter]

You will be forgotten by those you hold most dear. None will sing songs to guide your passing. Time will reclaim your memory as you rot.

[river wharf]

hey anyone know if toybox trigger akm have it's own sound effects now or nah, was probably gonna buy it?

[sudden pewter]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yfDDeyhGtsI

[river wharf]

cool thx

[unkempt moss]

Stop bringing this evil upon wepsngadg.

[unkempt moss]

I had a heavy penetration sniper idea. Catter just called me a fat imbecile, then sentenced me to toenail collection duty.

[analog pewter]

I anticipate they'll probably make players break out of goo a little faster but I don't think they'll fundamentally change it because goo trapping is an integral feature of goo

And you can't really remove it from goo gun without changing how goo works and thus reshaping a big chunk of the game

[compact tundra]

Honestly I think a reload nerf to goo gun would suffice. My idea was to have you fill the goo canister with the goo syrup every time you reaload. A full reload would take ~5s but you can cancel the reload and keep the partial amount you reloaded. You still get goo lock, you still get 20 goo blobs, just now you have to use those 20 more carefully and reloads can be punished

[analog pewter]

unlike stuns or cc in most other games goo also protects the victim from damage so it's more of a stalling tool than a killing tool. You can certainly use it to secure kills but generally speaking you can only kill a gooed target after the goo has broken, and continuously locking them mostly protects them at the same time. It's like a micro nullifier + slow

Having seen more goo gun recently and being locked by it myself on occasion I really find it kinda unproblematic tbh

[alpine sphinx]

nerfing goo stun would be horrible and unnecessary, its the main thing it has going for it

[alpine sphinx]

i would agree with this if dash gets nerfed, googun is the only somewhat counter to dash that heavy has and its heavily skill based. Winch is very unreliable against dash

[compact tundra]

The only dash nerf I'd recommend is locking its vertical mobility to ~30% and nerfing it's cool down to like 10s so each dash has to be more carefully used, that'd be about it. Heavy wins ttk and dps races against light so I don't think heavys really the one that needs dash counters the most, also lockbolt works just as well.

[alpine sphinx]

lockbolt does barely anything against dash if the light isnt oblivious to being lockbolted since the radius is so big

[marsh cosmos]

Rate my loadout from 1 to 10: Turret, AKM with OKP sight, flashbang, pyro and defib

[alpine sphinx]

but i agree that dash cooldown needs to be significantly increased, spam dashing shouldnt be a get out of jail free card, and i think that using a dash should reset the active cooldown

[chilly granite]

I think reseeting active cooldown is too mean, becaue that means that if you're on 1 dash, then each use has an effective cooldown of like, 18s

the cooldown should just be 12s or so

you get three charges, having a cooldown equal to or lower than the single charge alternative is ridiculous

I still think that dash is too hard to balance with an internal cooldown as low as it has

since it's potentially a huge amount of survivabiltiy against even the ebst players, but it's super unreliable

I think having a logner internal cooldown and then blanacing light with the expecatation of having to win fights (1v1) wiht a single dash is way better

heavy counters light by hp, even with dash, heavies bust damage and survive options often mean that even the best lights can't 1v1 a heavy

tbh medium counters light by hp too, but mediums problem is their gadgets are garbage so if you don't just aim better than the light, you die lol

since a light will usually be able to extract advantage via spec or gadgets

[unkempt moss]

They don't need to touch goo. This is nuts.

[chilly granite]

goo stalling cashout is op

goo in general is fine but they need to work out a way for goo stall to not be real

anyway gooking, I've been doing grapple/bow/null/frag/gateway

gateway somewhat acts as a defensive gadget similaar to flash, but the main thing is improving my positioning

sonar was really too unreliable. I can't puhs on a sonar with grapple bow, becuase the slow is super cripplign and grapple with overcommit me

so I'm basically relying on people being dumb enough to push me on sonar, or my teammates to push with sonar intel

and neither of those were very consistent

I tried goo and smokes instead of frag, and I'm kinda just bad at using both of them; the simple damage of frag really helps the bow feel more consistent, and it's a lot more obvious when I want to use it

glitch or h+ is the meta choice, and glitch is probably the objective best choice, but glitch has the same problem of me not using it effectively

H+ has the sonar problem of depending too muhc on allied performance, and positioning

basically every time I take h+ i regret it becaue I am very bad at extract value from it because my positioning and teamplay aren't good enough, and my teammates often have weak enough positioning and teamplay that they just get exploded too hahah

I prefer flashbang because they work better defensively, and on a lower cooldown, but frags offer more direct value

I rarely had fights I won because of flash, but today I've had multiple fights won becuase a frag got a lot of burst to start a fight

Or a frag killed the person stealing, etc

I think if I was better at using gateway, I would be able to use dash, but as it is, my gateway usage is inconsistentt so having a grapple is too importantt

grapple and gateway also do stack to allow some insane plays

I still hate using gateway, it's so inconsistent

it's fun when it works but it's so inconsistent and annoying that I don't like using it

I'm probably not being imaginative enough with goo grenade/bow/grapple synergies

but that also relies a lot of me hitting shots, and aim consistency is a problem for me cuz my health

my kovaaks scores are funny cuz I will have like, 3 runs at 70th percentile and then one at 25th percentile lmao

I think once I'm confident in my gateway usage, I'll experiment with swapping frag for a different gadget

I think it's good to focus on building skill with one tool at a time so you don't overwhelm yourself

@unkempt moss I wrote you an essay, you can expierence a day in the life of embark support

[analog pewter]

oath brother

[chilly granite]

is anyone here oppposed to final round being first to 3 cashouts

75k instead of 50k

[analog pewter]

weird idea but dash cooldown should speed up over time, and then slow back down if you use a dash
so if you have a dash coming up off cooldown, dashing again will increase the time it takes for the dash to come off cooldown
idk if im explaining that correctly but

[chilly granite]

so nonequal cooldowns

like, 5/6/7s cd on first/second/third dash charge?

@alpine sphinx reasoning?

[alpine sphinx]

me, im opposed to it

[analog pewter]

nah it would be variable because when you dash would affect the proportional remaining CD

[chilly granite]

but the scaling concept is right?

so using second charge gives you a "second charge " cooldown, and extends your current cooldown to "repaining cooldown % of second charge cd"

[analog pewter]

actually ignore me my idea is bad because the worst case scenario would happen if you spaced your dashes apart

it should be more like
the cooldown is slowed down for a time if you use dashes in rapid succession

so double dashing would slow the cooldown, and then dashing again before some time has elapsed would slow the cd further

[unkempt moss]

Street Fighter is best of three rounds. Its fine like that.

[chilly granite]

Probably the best way to implement that is to just do unequal length dash cooldowns, with a short first dash cooldowns and a much longer second dash cd

Something like 5/12/16

[chilly granite]

I would agree if it was actually best of 3, but best of 3 cashouts isn't the same as best of 3 rounds due to positioning and map

And also, due to the shorter steal timer in final round, each cashout feels less deterministic than a round in street fighter

[unkempt moss]

Bo5 would be really punishing for people getting griefed in. I think it would lead to actual griefing not the finals snowflake version.

[chilly granite]

How do you feel about a longer time for the vault to spawn

So after the cashout, there's a 30s window before the vault spawn

[unkempt moss]

I think an improved vault spawn system would be more than enough.

[chilly granite]

Improved vault spawn is hard

30s cd is a number

[unkempt moss]

Hard isn't really an excuse when they made the game.

[chilly granite]

Even with a 30s cd, improved vault spawns would still be beneficial

[unkempt moss]

Just spawn the losing team closer if you want the comeback mechanic.

[chilly granite]

Fair

[unkempt moss]

You're slowing down an already slow mode which I think hurts playability.

[chilly granite]

The other issue is pacing of final round

Hahahah, both said it at same time

How do you feel about a 10m timer

[unkempt moss]

For final round?

[chilly granite]

Yeah

[unkempt moss]

I think trying a new version of final round would be more interesting.

[chilly granite]

How do you feel about final round being 5m timer, best of 3, 3 resets 1 vault/cashout per reset

[unkempt moss]

I see. Youre saying extend the timer with each cash

[chilly granite]

No; I'm saying reset the map, let people swap reserves, like a new phase

But your idea is cool too

[unkempt moss]

Oh you want it round based. That could be cool.

Almost how terminal attack was.

[chilly granite]

A true round based best of 3, rather than first to 50k

I think reserves should be more available in competitive play in general

Parrt of the problem with current system is that it doesn't give players room to breath to discuss strategy if they lost a fight

For me

[unkempt moss]

I dont know how to balance yhis but doing like a capture the flag style. Where each team has a cashout. And if you steal you need to take it to yours and cash it out. First to one.

[chilly granite]

Obligate cashouts will lead to camping the box to steal it back

[unkempt moss]

Then you could have the back and forth, dead team gets chance to intercept. Would make grapple really meta

[chilly granite]

And teams arent large enough to both attack and defend at the same time

[unkempt moss]

Youre not attacking and defending. There's only one vault.

You're attacking and bringing it back to your own cash. Its just an idea off the top of my head.

[chilly granite]

I meant, if you had two vaults to solve the camping issue

[unkempt moss]

I don't know. H2H is the most boring mode unless you have bad blood with rhe team from the rounds before.

[chilly granite]

I feel like it could be great in a 5v5 bank it

I think first to 60k with kill gold would already make final round better

But kill gold would probably slow it down even more

[unkempt moss]

They should make final round first to 10k tdm.

[chilly granite]

Hahahah

Final round has way too many problems

It should be on the tdm maps so that kiting and camping is less effective hahhaha

Idk how you fix the problem of a single vault and high vulnerability leading to super slow vault fights

[analog pewter]

i prefer h2h over quick cash any day

[chilly granite]

That's probably because it is boring though? The worst thing about quick cash is how unboring it is

[unkempt moss]

Quick Cash is good for practicing third parties at least.

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss what do you think of a 7 min timer, first to 20k, and kill gold?

First to 20k means that it's a nightmare to get there via kills, rather than cash boxes

But kill gold means that a single kill will give a team default win, and the 7min timer means that one team will be invested in getting dunk done fast

10k vaults

I feel like that would increase tempo of final round a lot

Also think the respawn timers should be adjusted for final round to be more quickcashy

[sudden pewter]

I love H2H

[silent sierra]

Hows grapple in ranked

[unkempt moss]

The anti fun guy likes h2h... pottery

[chilly granite]

"pottery" hahaha

[chilly granite]

It's significantly worse than dash+gateway, especially if you're well coordinated with your teammates.

But it isn't unplayable, if your aim is good enough to win without dash, and you ensure that you're using grapple to have a position advantage in every fight

If you're good at using gateway, dash is better. If your bad at positioning, dash is probably better. If your not confident in your aim, dash is better. If your enemies are monsters, dash is better.

Grapple is more fun and I'm happy to have a lower number by my name for that fun

Grapple is also better if you struggle to coordinate with teammates, as it can help with rapid repositioning to bail them out

Grapple also allows cheesy and fun vault snatches and third parties

I struggle to coordinate with my teammates, so when I use dash I often end up isolated, and I like to do hilarious vault steals and the like, which just doesn't work nearly as well with dash

So for me, grapple is a much better choice

[unkempt moss]

grapple isnt a get out of jail free card. It's not bad, its just not dash. It does exactly what it is supposed to do.

[chilly granite]

Dash is get me out of jail free
Grapple is get my team out of jail free hahaha

Grapple is great at what it does, and if that means it solves the problems you have, you should use it, but dash+gateway does 90% of grapple, and it makes you win fights you shouldn't

Grapples well balanced but dash is fkn op

Hhhh I need to sleep, but I'm hungry and need food, and I don't wanna move because my medicines started wearing off and I feel terribleeee

[sudden pewter]

The Pro Finals Guy likes H2H… *

[chilly granite]

Pro finals is like, super duper anti fun, lmao

[analog pewter]

my most played modes these days are cashout, h2h, and point break
h2h is just preferable to me as a low-commitment cashout mode. quick cash is deeply frustrating, and sometimes cashout is just too much time investment for me

i hate that quick cash is a fucked up third party simulator

id rather quick cash be a mode thats like the qualifiers of cashout, and 1st + 2nd place both count as a win (for the purposes of challenges). it's just a better format. could still give more WT points for placing 1st over 2nd

[tulip knoll]

Buff arn empty reload?

[analog pewter]

no way
but i wish there was some way to do the quick reload w/o mag dumping. unless there is and i dont know about it

[unkempt moss]

Everyone knows pros are the most boring players

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-rot-lil-nas-x-mpreg-pregnant-discord-gif-5991367321020313704

I’m anything but a pro

[unkempt moss]

I know some things your a pro at

[sudden pewter]

The moment I’m done shedding my skin you’re done buster

[kindred gorge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1379553494545076235/1416496783114113084/heist.gif

Dang I forgot about that

[analog pewter]

some of u guys seem like u actually hate the game unironically and not as a joke

[unkempt moss]

I'm getting there unfortunately

[kindred gorge]

In the same way that an addict hates their addiction

[chilly granite]

this meta has already broken one of my friends, he's choosing to study over the finals because its more fun

[kindred gorge]

You get off cause you’re pissed and then overtime you rose tint focus on the adrenaline and occasional fun then play for an hour or two before the clarity hits

[chilly granite]

And another decided to try playing tf2 because he was so over finals lmao

[kindred gorge]

Tf2 is so fun though. I’ve been meaning to try tf2 classic I’ve heard it’s good

[unkempt moss]

I think ive played once in the last week. And got off because I'm burnt out. Ive made progress on my worthwhile hobbies though, so its worth it. Embark seems to have checked out anyway.

[chilly granite]

the meta is disgustingly cringe right now

and embarks passivity in regard to fixing it is ridiculous

[kindred gorge]

Yeah I can have one or two of my trio be lobotomized and still win because we’re playing HHM

[chilly granite]

spawn camping wiht repetaer and bfr is very entertaining

the meta is so poisonous it's affected my casual games

repeater spam in fkn tdm and point break

[sudden pewter]

It’s a decent game dragged down by Embark as a studio. I understand they don’t have the budget of AAA Studios and they’re Swedish so they get insane amounts of time off but holy fuck

2 years in and they still haven’t learned to communicate with the community

We aren’t asking them to reinvent the wheel

[kindred gorge]

Maybe that’s why my auto shotgun build has been putting in so much work, I feel like it’s a nice counter to repeater if you can catch them off guard or make good use of defensive gadgets to close distance

[chilly granite]

my swedish friend wwas like "... is there a swedish dev problem? first mojang, now embark, just not working ever?"

[kindred gorge]

Could be…

[analog pewter]

idk from my perspective it's a damn excellent game w some of those problems described

i cant really be bothered by a crummy meta when that's only crummy from the finals' frame of reference, it's still far more interesting than any other shooter on the market rn

[chilly granite]

embarks technical guys seem to be crakced, they tend to fix serious bugs in what is record time for other games

but their balance team appears to be one very stoned sweede who takes a lot of holidays

[sudden pewter]

Yeah the game fucks, it’s unique but Embarks glacial speed of balancing is largely detrimental because anything obviously OP will remain so for a season before it’s adjusted

Embarks “we need to let the dust settle” is stupid. They refuse to be reactive unless it’s the Sledge

[chilly granite]

or unless it's light

day 1 hotfix for v9s lmfao

meanwhile the repeater is busted for months

[analog pewter]

they ping pong light all over the place lol

and no hotfix for repeater hipfire bug is insane

[kindred gorge]

Probably the sole issue keeping the game out of mainstream. Besides advertising, not beginner friendly, lack of server capacity, monitazation model, etc

[analog pewter]

i generally think your ideas for "fixing" light are dogshit but I understand the extreme opinions when they keep tossing light around like a ragdoll with how wanton and reckless their balance changes can be

[sudden pewter]

Mainstream is fuck, gatekeep the normies

[chilly granite]

but yeah while finals is unique, it's meta is uniquely terrible

like, theres no other game ion the market that would allow such a terrible antifun meta to exist

othergame as a whole might be worse, but as far as metas within a given game go, finals is beyond belief

[analog pewter]

no game has ever "gone mainstream" 2 years after launch as far as I can recall. the only exception maybe being TF2 only because it started out as a paid game and went F2P

[sudden pewter]

I don’t want more COD or Fortnite Kids in here.

[analog pewter]

the game will probably grow steadily as it has momentum behind it from really good coverage from big youtubers but i dont think it's going to ever spike massively

[chilly granite]

games haven't been around long enough to really make a firm statement on that anyway

[sudden pewter]

It’s not like The Finals needs to be a Top 3 ESPORT to survive. Embark should be perfectly content with keeping it as a niche successful title, but I reckon Nexon is pushing for competitive focus

[kindred gorge]

You know having notoriously awful team players doesn’t sound fun I changed my mind

[chilly granite]

sweden is basically the origin of competative esports

so it's probably an internal push tbh

[sudden pewter]

Especially in a team game where it’s intentionally balanced in a way a single player cannot do everything

[chilly granite]

I doubt finals would ever attract cod/fortnite kids without significant changes to cashout/final round format

coin timer + coin limit is way too mcuh for cod/fortnite kids lolo

[spice spruce]

is it just me or isCerberus 12g kinda lacking rn

[chilly granite]

cerb is shit next

[kindred gorge]

Cerb only okay against lights and is outshined completely by model

[chilly granite]

tbh

I think the cerb is better than the model rn

[kindred gorge]

Sole benefit is clearing goo and gas

[chilly granite]

like, the repeater is a directly better model

I feel like the cerb offers something the reapeter/model dont

[kindred gorge]

I’m inclined to disagree, model lets you take out multiple people with one mag as opposed to having to reload once or potentially twice per person

[chilly granite]

Cerb is not better than model in a vaccum, it's just, it's more interesting right now becuase it fills a different niche

[sudden pewter]

They’re literally in #👂┇game-feedback asking to water down what makes the game unique bro. We get actual mouth breathing idiots in this channel asking for secondary weapons because managing ammo is too difficult for them

[chilly granite]

yeah that's why we ignore game feedback like embark does

[kindred gorge]

I hate the people who post the same copypastas every day. Especially the controller guy. And I play on controller which speaks volumes

[chilly granite]

bruh the sr84 player who keeps complaining about the bow

[sudden pewter]

Bruh the bow player who kept complaining about the sr84

https://tenor.com/view/rudy-marcin-maksiusiu-cat-silly-gif-14295700209675674791

[sudden pewter]

Bare Feet. 🦶 💨 👃

[kindred gorge]

I know what kind of man (or woman idk) you are @rustic kiln

[chilly granite]

to be fair, it looks like the guy who kept complaing about the bow has stopped since I gave him tips on how to ocunter it

[rustic kiln]

🙂

[chilly granite]

I mean, the bow was kinda just a worse sr84 before the buff, but the sr84 was/is not even remotely op

complaining abuot the sr84 is crazy work

the sr84 is so mid

[kindred gorge]

The guy who said to replace spin with a spear throw might be cooking

[chilly granite]

isn't that googs?

[kindred gorge]

Nah some other guy with like 15 bullet points. Some are okay some are eh

The concept of a phasing device replacing cloak is interesting but probably better to just make them separate things as not to step on the toes of the 5 cloak mains

[sudden pewter]

I don’t have the energy to explain why both are dogshit, talk amongst yourselves

[chilly granite]

more damage than the bow is crazy work

the bow is 124 damage

a spear throw having even 125, is insane

[kindred gorge]

Phasing device/dash does sound cool though

It would have to be a long cooldown though so you can only use it for entry or exit in one fight. But if you can go omnidirectional, so you could move through floors and ceilings too could make for an interesting addition

[unkempt moss]

Im a boomer as far as this game is concerned. Ive played since the beta so ive put my time in. Its not going to get shelved, but it won't be my main game now. It'll probably sit comfortable outside the top 5 games vying for my attention and get picked up a couple times a month.

[sudden pewter]

BUT BUT YOY HAVE TO COMPLETE THE BATTLEPASS

DONT YOU WANT THOSE DELICIOUS BONUS PAGES???

[kindred gorge]

I’ve noticed myself picking up marvel rivals more often after my big surge of finals gameplay

[unkempt moss]

True. Embark isn't part of the worth my money crew anymore

[kindred gorge]

Deadpool is just too fun. And I play arc raiders too when friends are available

[unkempt moss]

Spear throw 4ever tho

[sudden pewter]

Basic BP is still decent value given how many cosmetics you get but the Premium+ is definitely extra

[kindred gorge]

Spending 30 bucks on a free game for cosmetics is insane though

Part of me wishes they’d make finals a paid game so they could cut down on the cash grabbing a little bit

That’s obviously working for raiders

[chilly granite]

raiders has like $300 of cosmetics already

[unkempt moss]

I think it was fate tbh. My competitive genre of choice is calling me back. And I can actually socialize with other humans on this one.

[chilly granite]

teh cash grabbing is very much there in arc raiders

[kindred gorge]

Yeah but it’s not in your face every 5 seconds like finals. Couldn’t tell you when the last time is I personally have seen a dollar sign in the game

[unkempt moss]

Ill still be in here shitposting though

[chilly granite]

I mean, that's mostly because it's all in the proxy currecny

[unkempt moss]

I haven't spent money on arc outside of the entry price. The free passes and Christmas gift gave me the one skin I wanted

[chilly granite]

alright im gonna inject my meds and go sleep, goodnight gamers

hopefully we get a good patch next week

[kindred gorge]

I think I accidentally bought the premium version of the game, used that money to buy one skin and it’s never come off. I swap my pack and my axe around for the free stuff but that’s it

[analog pewter]

for our judgment, what other games are you playing over the finals

[sudden pewter]

S9 certainly felt different from other seasons given its shaken how the game is played (PB and the WT changes are huge) and while I’m certainly not optimistic about the current state of the game and its immediate future I like to think Embark isn’t stupid and at least occasionally dips in to see what the consensus is

[analog pewter]

im optimistic that season 10 is going to be pretty good

[sudden pewter]

All they gotta do is everything I want and nothing I don’t want and the game will flourish 💯

[analog pewter]

all they gotta do is add a couple gadgets and have a decent balance patch :)

[serene glade]

i would be if i wasnt thinking things would change for like the past 2-3 seasons

[sudden pewter]

Barricade Rework launch, Thermal Vision Rework launch, Melee Rework pt1

[unkempt moss]

SF6 and MH Stories 3 in March. Monster Hunter Wilds now. Ttrpg in between

[sudden pewter]

SF6?

[unkempt moss]

Street Fighter 6.

[analog pewter]

honestly barricade doesn't need a rework, it just needs to be able to be placed reliably
ppl are experimenting taking barry over dome lately, partially since barricade isn't countered by glitch and because the dome nerf actually mattered

[sudden pewter]

Also, is MHStories considered a large release?

[unkempt moss]

I don't think so.

This next one might put on the map as a premier creature collector though

[sudden pewter]

Yeah. Not being fucked by a pebble is all it needs. The leaked rework that hit live was so fucking good oh my god

The fact they took it away leads me to believe that they’re looking into changing how it’s CD is handled

Which I’m not sure I like the idea of, but I’m holding my breath

[analog pewter]

praying that my rework idea makes it in (can be placed intersecting walls and objects, and panels fully intersecting a wall/object are removed, refunding that portion of the cooldown)

i got level 8 barricade the other night making it my highest level weapon or gadget

[sudden pewter]

My highest lvl weapon is 5(?) and my barricade is lvl 9 because I’ve been aura farming Minigun Heavies in PB

[analog pewter]

yeah weapons level so much slower than gadgets its baffling

[chilly granite]

They yoinked barricade rework because people were exploiting it to yeet houses and themselves

[sudden pewter]

They have to get scraped off the floor when I’m running Minigun then swap to it and get farmed

[analog pewter]

my highest level wep is also 5

[sudden pewter]

Supposedly it also affected server performance but I’m doubtful

[chilly granite]

All weapons level 10x faster than nullifier

[analog pewter]

3, almost 4-way tie between deagles, minigun, model 1887, and sledge being close to 5

[chilly granite]

Nullifier is 50xp per hit, 15s cd

Weapons are .2x damage + 25/assist 50/kill

[analog pewter]

lv 8 barricade, lv 7 jump pad, lv 6 goo grenade, and somehow i have level 5 smoke despite barely using it

[sudden pewter]

Embark can’t make everyone happy regardless of what they do. We have players that want weapon colors irrelevant of rank, players that view weapon levels as some measure of skill, and players that view the levels as a badge of honor.

[chilly granite]

Lvl5 smoke is weird, it's 200xp per throw? But you gotta use it a fair amount to get lvl 5

[sudden pewter]

I’d love to see a badge perhaps? Something that tracks weapon kills? So you can show off your favorite weapon?

[chilly granite]

Jump pad, goo and barricades all level super fast

Goo and barricades give xp per damage blocked, and damage for activating it too

[chilly granite]

Good idea

Dota 2 has a leaderboard for hero mastery, so a leaderboard for weapon master in final would cool

[sudden pewter]

XP for everything needs to be looked at and adjusted. Really odd that some gadgets level significantly slower than other similar ones

[chilly granite]

I've complained extensively, specifically about the nullifier

Null only rewards a successful hit, and only gives 50xp

Meanwhile pyro gives 25 for throwing it, and gives 20x damage as xp

That's like, 31.75*20 if you hit one person with only afterburn

A fuckload

Meanwhile frags only give 3x damage as xp, and no xp for throwing it

[analog pewter]

i just want them to add a universal camo system similar to nu-cod. i like being able to pull out a weapon, do a challenge or 2 with it, and then unlock a unique camo i can put on any of my other weapons

if every weapon had even one challenge that was decently difficult, you could make a lot of new camo-style skins

[sudden pewter]

I’d very much like a universal camo system, but would likely conflict with some of the shittier skins in the game. (Think the awful cardboard or the Blacklight roller rink texture swaps)

[chilly granite]

I'm not opposed but they need to fix the basics

[sudden pewter]

Every time they add a new weapon or gadget they’d need to update the camo I’d assume

[analog pewter]

still no green skin .....

no purple ...

[chilly granite]

What really concerns me is "stat based balancing" and then gadgets don't give xp for stuff that the game should totally be tracking for stats based balancing

[sudden pewter]

Still waiting for numerical statistics in the equipment menu. Bars tell you fucking nothing

[chilly granite]

Emerald, I've told them to add an amethyst skin for people who get top 500 in casuals modes hahaha

[analog pewter]

top 500 rewards for casual would turn every casual mode into ranked

[chilly granite]

But like, how can they stat based balance nullfier if they aren't tracking how often people get killed or kills after using it?

[analog pewter]

nullifier should give bonus xp for stopping cashouts or stopping players who had just damaged a teammate

[chilly granite]

Same for smoke. How can you stat based balance smoke if it's not tracking when you steal in smoke?

And if this shit is tracked, why don't I get xp for it?

[chilly granite]

Ik but I want amethyst skins and idk what else they would add them for

Like, stat based balancing is either a lie or their stats are ass and that's why the balancing is ass

It's the second one

[random depot]

Buff frags!

[chilly granite]

"CB repeater is one of the least popular medium weapons, gun is fine"

"We buffed a fun weapon so everyone logged in to have fun and play it, we must immediately nerf it" (v9s)

[serene glade]

Money

[random depot]

Repeater is obnoxious atm

[analog pewter]

amethyst for reaching plat 1 in both ranked and wt?

[chilly granite]

And yet embark refuse to nerf when they did a next day hot fix for v9s lmao

Stat based balancing; most people don't like using repeater so it must be balanced, not overpowered and boring

[random depot]

I mean the issue is its range

The dmg is a lot too, but fights over 25-30meters in this game are unhealthy

[chilly granite]

It also has bigger numbers than the model while having equal range to it, forget having more range

Equivalent damage and significantly faster rate of fire than the model

[random depot]

Shak lvls of hipfire

[chilly granite]

Even if you nerf it to 25m, it's still a stupid gun that would need nerfs

[random depot]

Yes but its a start

The Dmg should be 75 at most

[chilly granite]

Honestly, letting both medium and heavy have weapons that combine to oneshot light, while also having respectable numbers against medium and heavy, is a terrible idea

[random depot]

Titan is close to being balanced

[chilly granite]

Gut the rate of fire and put it down to 84 damage and nobody will use it because it'll be useless against heavy

Titan is much better than repeater but still problematic

Make it projectile and 88 damage and it's fine

[random depot]

Too much range

The reload keeps it healthy

[chilly granite]

Pike exists, range isn't useful without kill potential to back it up

[random depot]

Disagree, range is oppressive af

[chilly granite]

I need to sleep, talk to someone else sorry

If that was true lh1 would be relevant

[random depot]

Just cause its outclassed atm

Why run lh1 light when Cerb and Titan exist

Light plays like a support these days, with high close ttk

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/poopman-poop-stain-homunculus-gif-5894943418330622711

[random depot]

Lh1 will come back as soon as Cerb and Titan are balanced, LH1 is still very strong. Its just boring for most people playing light because its an afk weapon 70/80% of the time

[serene glade]

"As soon as cerb is balanced"
Elaborate on that statement please

[random depot]

Your angle being more valuable than the dmg itself at times

[random depot]

Does not require it, very straight forward statement

[serene glade]

Yeah I hate you

You're joining superbyte and others

[random depot]

Lmao

Poor communication skills being blamed on the receiving end is wild

"I asked a redundant question with no depth and now I hate you"

[sudden pewter]

Nah he’s right. You’re a silly sausage

[random depot]

For?

[sudden pewter]

The green is already becoming a part of you. It crawls deeper with every message

[random depot]

Ah perhaps I was confused, did you mean the other guy or me?

[analog pewter]

cerb one of the worst weapons in the game rn lol

[random depot]

Rank?

[analog pewter]

u first

[serene glade]

Gets worse and worse

[random depot]

Plat 1 season 1, currently plat 4

[serene glade]

[random depot]

I was too focused on OW to give this game time

[analog pewter]

how tf do you get to plat 4 and think cerb is good 🤣 i think you just have a matchup you need to work on bro

[random depot]

I mean medium is bad rn

[serene glade]

Plat 1, focused on OW sir

[random depot]

Doesnt make Cerb bad, when its the only reason medium is played at the pro level

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[serene glade]

He watches and looks at pro play, how does it keep getting worse

[sudden pewter]

I don’t have enough alcohol for this

[random depot]

Neurological ahh response

[serene glade]

Ahh, please go back to reddit I beg

[random depot]

Please read a book i beg

I can smell the cheetoh dust

[serene glade]

Currently reading No, David

[random depot]

A book written by a child?

[serene glade]

Please don't spoil it

[random depot]

Not very stimulating but sure, its better than no books

[sudden pewter]

Hungry Caterpillar SWEEP

[unkempt moss]

This guy isnt real.

[serene glade]

I will not take David slander

[random depot]

You may look down on me all you like, you have yet to offer any counter points beyond "nuh uh" and anecdotal experience

[sudden pewter]

Brown Note

[random depot]

Im coming at this from the standpoint of a former coach for a different game

[unkempt moss]

What's your point again? I just see you slandering the good name of my fellow wNg posters.

[serene glade]

I asked you to elaborate in Cerberus getting balanced. A very vague statement, then you tried to own me with a reddit response. Buddy I don't care about your coaching in Esports

[random depot]

The gift of thought isn't for everyone I suppose

[sudden pewter]

“I coached a different game and this somehow validates my shit take in another game I don’t need to explain”

[random depot]

You failed to ask a coherent question, and blame me for responding in kind

[sudden pewter]

We gotta gatekeep this channel ong this is #💥┇spawn-point behavior

[random depot]

So Appoh and Ronin are just dumb then?

[serene glade]

Yeah

[random depot]

I shouldnt listen to Ruby players who know the game better

[unkempt moss]

How would you want to balance the cerberus. Genuinely, one coach to another.

[serene glade]

It's very straightforward

[random depot]

See thats a question

I dont know exactly, but running with the idea that its near identical to Ashe from OW. The range and ttk are too high.

What way to adjust it is beyond me. All I can see is its a fine line between useful and useless

Fire rate and range would be my first thoughts

But that's hard to fine tune in a game like The Finals

[analog pewter]

playing goalie in cashball is so thankless

u get no points 😔

[random depot]

I have no idea what that is 🥲

[analog pewter]

are you thinking of CB-01 ? the repeater?

cerb is the fucking
3-barrel shotgun

[random depot]

Ah yes

[analog pewter]

is that the confusion here

[random depot]

You are correct and I did the thing again

[analog pewter]

omfg
all good i understand you now

[serene glade]

Lmfaoooo

[unkempt moss]

I was very confused when he said range was to high on cerb.

[random depot]

Yeah uh

[unkempt moss]

All good. We're all on the same page.

[random depot]

Yeah...

I dont really call any of the weapons by name in my head

Its just the visual models

Floating like a gta3 item pickup

Except the lord and saviour of the game Goo gun, I fucking love the goo gun

[unkempt moss]

Tough. Probably not best practice to start calling people stupid if thats the case.

[random depot]

Its more than fair given his prior statements, do not cast stones if you dont wish them to be thrown back

[unkempt moss]

But, Jesus forgives everyone, so I will follow his lead.

[sudden pewter]

Jesus also let his homies eat his body, and I’m so hungry.

[unkempt moss]

No one knows how stupid googs is better than I.

[serene glade]

Wtf, where did all the communion wafers go? Me with a Jesus Christ shaped tummy
"Idkkkkkk"

[sudden pewter]

(Me baptizing my stomach with the holy water) Mmmmm praise the lawd

[random depot]

This has to be a culture thing, wtf are you people saying

[serene glade]

Not drinking the blood of Christ after a delicious body of Christ, crazy

[sudden pewter]

You play OW, you wouldn’t understand

[random depot]

Has to be sacrilege

[sudden pewter]

Culture could kiss you on the lips and you’d be oblivious to it

[random depot]

Like what's with you people and sarcastic comments like that?

[serene glade]

Dad?

[unkempt moss]

The culture thing here is knowing that were a family. So the squad shows up for each other. The alleycats fight, but when the dog shows up we gang up on the dog.

[sudden pewter]

Oscar better show up with the menthol cigarettes and whole milk next season ong

[random depot]

What

[serene glade]

Communion is the body and blood of Christ wtf are you talking about

[sudden pewter]

Point Break absolutely replaced QC for me. If we just had more QoL it would be perfect

[unkempt moss]

I'm only serious.

[sudden pewter]

Also if we could get meaningful balance changes sooner that would be fucking epic gamer style

[analog pewter]

more point break maps or riot

[sudden pewter]

Peace Center my beloved.

I’m very surprised Fengwei isn’t a PB option

[analog pewter]

point break on skyway would go crazy man i need it

[sudden pewter]

Skyway? I could see it

[random depot]

I dont see the appeal

[unkempt moss]

Of what?