💣┇weapons-gadgets

[bitter geyser]

Glitch nades are insane because you can throw them at a bubble and have them proc instantly, you cannot do the same with mines.

Nades are super obvious because of the marker they’ve added and only really have any value if the enemy is:
stealing
hasn’t bubbled
is below you

[viscid carbon]

I'm rather new and I haven't played ranked, only WT, but still I've never thought of frag or glitch mine to be more useful than goo or zipline

[indigo nexus]

In casual lobbies there’s no way you’ll get games competitive enough that meta matters even remotely

Damn near anything performs about the same

[bitter geyser]

Weapon wise, maybe, but gadgets have value by just being in your loadout

Even though wt is casual, people still run what works

[viscid carbon]

My point is you barely ever get value out of frag or glitch mine as opposed to goo or zip

[bitter geyser]

The only mediums not running goo pad fib are extremely new, playing a troll loadout or are just trying something new

[indigo nexus]

Useful in most kinds of area denial situation as well, and to avoid being perused in unfavourable situations

[bitter geyser]

Extremely situational though, goo does both of what you mentioned but 10x better

[indigo nexus]

The vast majority of players do not play at a level such that meta loadouts are clearly the best picks for their capabilities.

[bitter geyser]

Bruh, there isn’t a need for capability when using the meta med loadout anyways

[indigo nexus]

A goo nade doesn’t force someone to vacate or take 140 damage. It is better at the other role, but for that comparison to be made you need to weigh up all the useful scenarios for both against one another.

[bitter geyser]

Getting chased? Drop a goo
Get winched? You can goo any instant damage and pad away if you’re quick enough
Want to delay an enemy getting into an area? Goo the entrance/wall off

Only situation goo doesnt work is vs a CnS heavy

But a nade wouldnt do anything either, and you’re not going to be able to throw a glitch mine fast enough either

[indigo nexus]

Meta picks are typically meta because of the fact that they’re harder to use effectively than other gadgets, and hence becomes disproportionately better in the hands of better players.

[bitter geyser]

Meta literally means most efficient technique available

Goo is efficient and easy, it does practically everything you want for area control

[indigo nexus]

In this game at least, it always refers to the most efficient technique available from the perspective of a ruby player

[bitter geyser]

Sure, but every medium irrespective of not touching ranked to ruby will be fine on the med meta loadout

[indigo nexus]

Generally a gadget always “works” outside of specific scenarios, what you’d need to do for a meaningful comparison is consider all the scenarios that either would be useful in, and then determine the magnitude of usefulness in those cases

[bitter geyser]

If we look at heavy or light, i can agree, it requires you to understand the game, but the M loadout is so easy and basic that you are not required to be good at the game to use it

And because of this, every medium is using goo fib and pad, the other gadgets just do not provide nearly enough value to justify swapping any of them

Unless you are playing a tailored loadout like melee with flashes or something of the sort

[bitter geyser]

Sure, but you mentioned two scenarios in which goo is better than nades

It is also easier to execute in both situations

[indigo nexus]

I disagree, the threat of 140 damage makes it much more effective for area clearing and in some situations, better for preventing pushes.

Aim requirements are more lax too, for whatever that counts.

[elfin bay]

sorry i didnt play for some years whats meta build on medium now? repeater, goo, jump pad, defib , heal gun?

[indigo nexus]

Yep

[bitter geyser]

Ok, i throw nade at doorway, it explodes and now they rush in and i either have to watch it or leave
I goo door, it takes them 5s to break it AND i audibly know where they’re coming from

For area clearing, sure nades work

A light can also just dash over the nade, heavies might just not respect it and winch me instead

You can even just mesh and get through unscathed

[indigo nexus]

If you used it in a useless scenario then that’s on you.

Goo takes ~2s to break with a gun, though, a team can get through it very quickly.

If an enemy player were behind cover then you can often force them out of it with a frag, which is pretty useful. Can give you enough time to ensure they die.

Oh yeah, frag is also good for baiting enemies in to defend a steal, though that’s always a risky play. Being able to generally prevent a time sensitive move without being at a large HP disadvantage is pretty useful, even if it only covers a ~1s window

[viscid carbon]

Btw do you think the Pyro Nade is at all worth using?

[stoic garden]

it is better than nothing, but it might be the worst gadget out there, it has merit in hitting through walls and clearing gas on demand i suppose

[viscid carbon]

And clearing goo

I guess I'll try the frag tonight

[sullen plover]

I feel like the arns quick reload should be faster

[indigo nexus]

Competitively probably not, though it's handy for revolver vs lights

it's not great for goo clearing because of how long it takes, it's mostly just an impact grenade / steal staller

Apparently it's meta in TDM, though I don't fully understand that claim.

If your aim isn't the greatest I think it makes a nice fight opener for whenever you get the drop on someone - you can take out your gun and start shooting before the grenade hits, to basically just add a bunch of ambush damage to secure the kill. It's not so useful when the enemy knows of your presence.

[azure shuttle]

Is there any updates on Thermal Vision?

[spring spear]

not really when so many other better gadgets exist
its only purpose its to clear gas which you can do with barrels anyway

[stoic garden]

HELL NAW

[sullen plover]

Why i feel like its actually so slow id rather tac reload then use it like that

[broken mulch]

if ur in a fight u quick reload if ur not u tac reload
if ur a bullet off from finishing someone off and they're running, u wanna quick reload

i dont see why you'd tac reload when you have the choice to quick reload if ur actively shooting someone

[chilly granite]

Light and heavies second class options are stronger than mediums second class options

But light and heavies first class options are way, way better than mediums first class options

You lose way less power as a medium bringing weird gadgets than a light skipping h+ glitch gateway

[chilly granite]

You're probably bad at throwing frags if you can't get value

Frags are solid at a minimum, but being fused, are much harder to use than impact/short fuse grenades

[viscid carbon]

I just find goo and zip to be more useful more often

I was actually planning on trying frags again today

[chilly granite]

No it doesn't, that's a backronym, meta means metagaming, it's from greek

[viscid carbon]

They could be pretty strong if I learn some tech with them

[chilly granite]

Zip is absolutely weaker than frags btw, because once you reach a level of skill, you just get shot dead on xiplines

[viscid carbon]

Very fair point

[chilly granite]

https://youtu.be/32hb4hLp_98?si=LB6qRGan9xfk8QH0

This is a nice vid

[viscid carbon]

And it’s not like vertical zips where you can jump on and off to avoid bullets

[viscid carbon]

Will check this out for sure, thanks a lot for the input!

[chilly granite]

A lot of the time you only need a small amount of chip damage to finish someone who took cover, which the pyro nade does excellently

[spring spear]

i mean they are
post nerf frags arent a throw pick by any means but you get far more value with things like goo nade, zipline, even glitch trap

[spring spear]

also not true
previous to the last glitch buff we were seeing teams running zip instead of goo nade to move the HHM comp around
if you place the zip in a bad place yeah youll get shout out of it specially if you dont know how to weave in and out of it but as a rotating tool it's pretty fucking good and the only reason you dont see it in HML is because the light always brings gateway and the goo nade offers for medium that is much needed as they dont have any kind of direct defense

[brave onyx]

still upset at the shitty smoke grenades. i can see right through them now. i shouldnt be able to camp a doorway with 100% visibility while sitting in a smoke. at least reduce the 50 sec cooldown on them now that you can see through them.

also i still want ice grenades and mines

[viscid carbon]

Actually got me drooling at the way he uses it to clear entire teams solo

The demat and cashout manipulation tech is also really cool

Definitely checking out this guy’s other videos, based and informative

[indigo nexus]

Oh yeah, I love to run the two together

Healbeam might be more viable but medium without demat to me is… bread without butter

[lapis dock]

roleback smoke inner visibility radius to 1M please. Cloud is so small you can't even hide anymore inside. There are enough counters (rpg, trackers). please make smokes useful and niche again

[vivid quartz]

Anyone got a pretty meta kit for light sword with cloaking device ?

[kindred gorge]

nullifier is a solid pick so you can avoid fighting two people at once, I'd say sonar grenade and the third slot can be used to fill the needs of your team (H+, breach charge, goo nade etc)

Could also consider gateway since you're losing out on mobility from the spec

[stoic garden]

demat gang rise up we need that bugfix

[kindred gorge]

the clutching potential of demat is just too good

[kindred gorge]

but yeah I do think overall picking e-dash and filling a gadget slot with vanish is more effective but if you wanna use cloak then that's what I'd suggest

[chilly granite]

god talking to light mains makes me lose braincells

"grapples too strong at vault manipulation! so it should be buffed in combat instead"

"make it so you can shoot while grappling" you can, but you need to aim the grapple, and you're already dead by the time you aim back, evne if you're a pro player

"make it so grapple is as fast as dash" grapple requires you to turn and aim it, so it has a 3rd person animation warning them to track. So people will hit you anyway, and it will be even more op for vault manip if you do so

maybe it's just that dash having 3 charges with minimal internal cooldown is op?

[kindred gorge]

grapple has always struck me as a cross map mobility/get out of jail free tool rather then for combat movement

[chilly granite]

yeah, and it's well balanced as such

the problem is that light is just too fragile to be played without dash/invis

[kindred gorge]

what do they mean about vault manipulation?

[chilly granite]

yoink box and run

[kindred gorge]

ah

I mean it's a trade off play though cause you're leaving your teammates fighting a man down and potentially have to guard the cash solo

[chilly granite]

yeah but rubies are bitches

esp cause of the double potential

[kindred gorge]

mm

I wish the grapple had the same physics as pathfinder from apex, that was like the sole appeal of the game, except for gibby

[chilly granite]

KEKW that explains a lot

[languid wave]

Does anybody know if we can only use the emerald/diamond tokens for previous weapon skins? Or can we redeem them to any weapon we want?

[chilly granite]

@placid hound hi just wondering if there's plans to improve map flow to reduce poke meta? repeater obviously needs nerfs so it doesn't outdps the model in cqb, but a lot of maps have really painful sightlines from cashbox locations

[chilly granite]

any weapon, the skins for this season will be different from preivous seasions emerald/ruby skins

so if I get gold tokne, and redeem on sr84, it will look different from my existing sr84 gold skin

[languid wave]

Cool thank you man

[chilly granite]

Once you have enough chat points, ask in the wiki channel, that's where the skin nerds hang out

I'm 85% sure that's correct, but I'm not a skin nerd myself

[languid wave]

I am 😩

[muted condor]

Did someone say skin?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/555280955540242433/1462282027347874023/1765842505328_3.gif

[chilly granite]

idk why pepole asussume wepsngadg is skin nerds

[kindred gorge]

if anything I'd assume the drip check people take the cake there

[chilly granite]

drip check is epople whoc are about the fashion

the wiki is where the people maintain a database of cosmetics

the wiki is the skin nerds

[unkempt moss]

I love waking up to seeing Catter getting lit up for being angy😂

[stoic garden]

fr he just doesn't want another v9s (fuck v9s)

[unkempt moss]

Skins go on weapons and gadgets. I guess thats the connection.

[kindred gorge]

I should be to post videos at this level right?

[compact tundra]

-levels

[raven finch]

Our leveling system

"Why can't I do some things in the server?"

• You may need to level up first!

How to level up? Just look around and join conversations. Lots to talk about!

Lvl 0: Newbie 0xp
• join VC • make bug reports • chat in most channels
Lvl 1: <@&1011197091470647317> 35xp
• create new VC • reactions • external emoji • images in drip check, pet channel
Lvl 3: <@&1011197119199191071> 115xp
• images in most channels • embeds in main chat
Lvl 8: <@&1133322765194235904> 1015xp
• embeds and images everywhere
Lvl 15: <@&1012661788401217579> 3955xp
• external stickers • VC streaming • bragging rights!

Role descriptions: #👋┇welcome
Check your rank: #🏆┇rank-check

[kindred gorge]

I just tried and pulled up an embed instead

that is an insane gap to hit qual

[serene glade]

Took a lot of shit posting to get to where I am today. They call me an alleycat in some places

[stoic garden]

i complain about having 50 fps and terrible resolution sometimes, otherwise advocate for giving certain equipment the electric chair

(been here since season 1)

[unkempt moss]

I just get told my ideas are bad and watch people piss and moan about no changes afterwards.

But its a living.

[indigo nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/skibidi-toilet-skibi-di-urinal-the-amazing-world-of-gumball-tawog-gif-295811233864195832

[kindred gorge]

W caption

[muted condor]

Two things can me true at once

[unkempt moss]

I've never seen that to be the case.

[placid slate]

I love death cult

[muted condor]

I love skinning people!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565205869755629589/1464207027462209536/20260123_113507.gif

[chilly granite]

hahah i did it in like 2 weeks

to green

i got red in like 4 days

[kindred gorge]

I dont have the elite ball knowledge necassary to make spreadsheets or ramble about specific gadgets like you do, not sure thats a fair comparison

[muted condor]

Just do what I do

Become a hater and crash out all the time

[kindred gorge]

I shant

this land is made of love and pee!

[unkempt moss]

Neither does he, but he do.

[chilly granite]

bro half my posts are incorrect so I have to make another post correcting it

that's why I shit out so many posts hahaha

if I actually understood maths and statistics well enough to get the right numbers first try, I would make so many less posts

also, if I was mroe confident in my ability to get the right answer, I wouldn't bother documenting my methodology, which also massivley inflates my post count

[open beacon]

are there any new weapons or gadgets?

[spring spear]

lol

[chilly granite]

I post my methodology so smarter people than I can spot my errors and help me fix them (usually sausage)

[muted condor]

And so dumb people like me can hate for no reason

[unkempt moss]

I just post my ideas to my own design document so people can't hurt my feelings

[sudden pewter]

My fuck I regret scrolling up

[unkempt moss]

Why?

[sudden pewter]

This among other things

I applaud Sausage for having the patience to deal with subpar players being objectively wrong

I am not built in such a manner

[unkempt moss]

What if that guy is top 500

[sudden pewter]

I’d still proudly puff out my chest and call em stinky

Glitch Traps are genuinely one of the best Medium Gadgets

[oblique crypt]

Yeah they can get very annoying

I was trying to get Defib kills yesterday and I kept getting glitch trapped.

[unkempt moss]

I want glitch traps on heavy so bad

Can we get this for heavy? Shoulder mounted semi auto anti tank rifle

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/ew-brotha-eww-meme-eww-eww-gif-gif-1452572770363109714

Explain, go on.

Looks like something I’d see in Forever Winter

[unkempt moss]

No its okay. Ill just hide it in my GOUF notes. Norcomma is sprinting to the discord to dogpile on my hopes and dreams

This is about how big it would be on the heavy

[sudden pewter]

Just remember, you said you weren’t sure what we both wanted were different enough to call it “a different game”

[unkempt moss]

Its a rifle.

[sudden pewter]

This is pretty out there

[unkempt moss]

Its more the concept than the look. I know it needs to be boring looking to make it in.

I like the look, but I know it would never fly with this community.

[sudden pewter]

I mean, it could work? Just paint it black and add “The Finals” in bold yellow text somewhere

But yes it would be insanely out of place

[unkempt moss]

No, you're right. Ive just been thinking of how to make a penetration weapon work and this is it.

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/shane-running-the-walking-dead-shane-pissed-shane-what-is-that-shane-sprinting-gif-26545589

[sudden pewter]

Literally just add any given gun, and add a CNS-esque glitch vector effect to the barrel to indicate it doesn’t function normally

[red pumice]

Nah nah let me show you what heavy should really have

[unkempt moss]

It does function normally. Its a rifle with ballistics. Its just from ghost in the shell so it has to look sci-fi

[sudden pewter]

Not rocket science. Stays within the aesthetic boundaries of the game and clearly communicates it isn’t standard fare

[unkempt moss]

What if for a penetration weapon it was hitscan until impact with terrain, and then the wall gave it "bloom" and made it projectile.

[muted condor]

I think there could be a more fitting weapon that could do that

[sudden pewter]

Why do we need a penetration weapon?

[muted condor]

I see the vision. Let it shoot through dome as well

[red pumice]

We have the RPG as a penetration weapon

[muted condor]

And goo

[sudden pewter]

I get it’s novel but imagine how awful it would be to fight

[red pumice]

M16A2 + M203 for heavy

[unkempt moss]

Because its a concept that fits the destruction of the finals.

[sudden pewter]

Ah yes, Heavy runs around normally, sees a foe, then plonks down a barricade and starts blind firing

[serene glade]

Then the cheaters could have a new weapon to abuse, why doesn't anybody think about them for a change

[muted condor]

That sounds awesome actually

[sudden pewter]

Wait I think he means destruction, not actual penetration(?)

[muted condor]

Catter is making me want it more

[unkempt moss]

No it would penetrate, but it would probably destroy the wall after 3 shots or something

[sudden pewter]

KS23 penetration? Or “pierces walls”

I’m shitting.

[muted condor]

Both would be cool

[unkempt moss]

Or dont make it destroy walls thats better to me.

I just want it to penetrate walls and keep going.

[sudden pewter]

What’s the opportunity cost?

[unkempt moss]

What do you mean

[sudden pewter]

Clearly it’s a giant shoulder mounted fuck off cannon. Big damage, penetration too because fuck it novelty. What’s the downsides

What’s stopping someone from treating it like a beefier KS23

Does it have an arm time like the minigun?

Does it have a Herculean reload?

Small magazine?
What keeps it in check

[unkempt moss]

The giant part makes it operate more like mini. Sub 60 rof, ADS time would be long and hip accuracy would be insanely bad. Im thinking like 7 rounds.

Reload time would be between like flamethrower

[muted condor]

I still want a hand held canon for heavy

[sudden pewter]

What’s the damage range? Does it OHK lights?

[unkempt moss]

It wont be allowed to one shot lights because embark.

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/topsecret-cannon-cafeole-blackman-black-gif-19410325

[sudden pewter]

BFR exists and I will bring this up until Embark addresses the multiple elephants that have been trapped in the room so long the bodies are rotting

[muted condor]

GIVE ME A BIG FUCK OFF CANON

Not even Cater could hate that

[unkempt moss]

I'd say damage fall off would mainly occur after impact with wall. Lets say 145, dropping to 75 to after impacting a wall?

[sudden pewter]

So it’s a sniper rifle with penetration capabilities

(Arm time equating to scoping in)

[unkempt moss]

Unsure of the standard fall off. But its a huge round so I would accept bullet drop and make it fully projectile

You can call it a sniper rifle sure, but it wouldn't receive a scope with any great magnification.

[indigo nexus]

what the hell is all this weapons-gadgetsslop then

[sudden pewter]

I’d be much more willing to entertain a full projectile behavior to keep its ranged potential reigned in

[sudden pewter]

I’m trying to be nice Yikes said I was a meanie because I shut everything down

[unkempt moss]

Anything with range in this channel is called a sniper on heavy so we can categorize it as that

[cosmic berry]

day 3 of asking for tracking dart to be put on medium class aswell (what channel should i be saying this in

[muted condor]

I want a fuck off canon for heavy

[unkempt moss]

You dont have to be nice. But its at least better than asking for the M16 and V9S

[serene glade]

None of them tbh

[sudden pewter]

You will be consumed by the ravenous hordes. Stop spamming

[spring spear]

if people dont want their idea shut down they should have good ideas

[oblique crypt]

Not sure if tracking dart would be any more useful on medium, wouldn't mind it though.

[unkempt moss]

I can just ask for real world guns from now on and just bullshit what it does if that makes everyone more comfortable.

[sudden pewter]

Day 45 of asking Embark to wear the skins of people that copy paste the same dogshit

[muted condor]

Ask for a canon with me

[spring spear]

day 1745 of asking embark to remove poke weapons

[unkempt moss]

Until we open up the conversation to a little more novelty the requests are always uhh what if light got a kriss vector

[sudden pewter]

What if the ARN got another x14 legendary skins

[muted condor]

Would the canon shoot a single ball or be a shotgun?

I feel like a shotgun would be best

[sudden pewter]

It’s a cannon not a blunderbuss

[muted condor]

Canons have grape shot

[unkempt moss]

At this rate thats what we will get. Because we're so locked in to it needing to fit the reality of a VR near future game show in a post apocalyptic world or some shit.

[spring spear]

does anyone remember that guy that kept saying arn "should play like an actual AR" in the feedback channel

and hia argument was that it should fire slower but do more damage

[cosmic berry]

ok but hear me out, im a medium main and i love tracking dart it is my baby

[sudden pewter]

Send 35 messages.

[unkempt moss]

What did he mean? It does feel like an SMG to me, but thats a symptom of it being on light.

[spring spear]

I just think tracking dart would get even less value on M over L

[spring spear]

Idk when asked hed get abgry at us tell us were blocked and call cms because we were "toxic"

[oblique crypt]

How do you actually get good use out of it?

[unkempt moss]

That seems like a reasonable reaction.

I can kind of see where hes coming from because the ARN just feels like XP but good for most people.

[sudden pewter]

It’s not like ideas are off limits we just need feasible ones that mesh with the existing game

[cosmic berry]

it actually has really really good hipfire and can track people for a long time, just click and they are marked for death :3

[spring spear]

I just think making it feel more like an AR would do nothing, if anything it might lead to ARN doing less damage since you cant quickly pop in, magdump and pop out

[oblique crypt]

Death seems like a bit of an over exaggeration

[sudden pewter]

Instead of suggesting Light gets a Scythe that has lifesteal, single target/AOE swings, and built in grapple/winch; maybe a pure thrown projectile for Hebvy? 👉👈

[compact tundra]

I got you dog, I had 2 heavy weapon ideas like that earlier.

The more sensible idea is the Philippine guerrilla gun, it's a single shot "rifle" that you could replace the barrel every shot and would do big numbers, idk how to balance it yet I just saw a video on that gun while high last night and loved it

The second is the Crusty Cannon

It has 3 shots per mag and does 115 damage per shot with

• Min falloff 20m
• Max falloff 32m
• 115dmg per shit
• 3 bullets per mag
• alt fire shoots a barrel you've loaded into it.
• alt fire does 40 DMG on top of whatever the barrels effect is

You can press X/reload while holding a barrel in hand and you'll load it into the barrel of the cannon. It can be shot at any time by pressing the alt fire button and can only hold 1 barrel at a time.

It might not be the best weapon but it'd be fun, and you can load heal barrels to shoot at teammates and be a semi support heavy which sounds hella fun to me

[unkempt moss]

Tell me what that means for you. Because I think thats where we differ a lot. To me I see a game where theres people manipulating ohsycis and shit with the equivalent of alien tech mixed with real world guns. Should the alien tech stay on gadgets and keep the weapons normal?

[muted condor]

Iv used tracking dart a few times and it would be good if light didn’t have 5 S tier gadgets

[spring spear]

Yeah but what does the tracking actually do, you get to see where 1 of them are but not only do they get notified you still dont know where the rest of the team is so at most youre just getting the information the other team wants you to have anyway

[cosmic berry]

kinda, but in team fights you can just have wallhacks the whole enemy team with really solid uptime

[alpine sphinx]

healing gadgets shouldnt exist.

[unkempt moss]

So what is the XPs role?

[muted condor]

I’m not reading all that pookie bear

[spring spear]

Whereas with sonar nade or proxy sensor you can reveal them unexpectedly which can actually give you a heads up or disrupt plans

[cosmic berry]

4 shots, 3 enemies

[compact tundra]

Bruh😭

[sudden pewter]

Alien tech mixed with real world guns???

[cosmic berry]

15(?) seconds of tracking with every hit

[spring spear]

isnt that a good question, i thought it was to be a jack of all trades but after so many changes it kinda just doesnt do anything that either arn or m11 dont do better

[muted condor]

Not to far off what I was actually thinking

[spring spear]

If you can hit an entire team with it sure but the second someone on the team gets hit with it theyre gonna call it out and avoid getting the entire team detected

[unkempt moss]

Gateway, Anti Grav and laser tethers on the lockbolt. But then we have AK, and AK but burst, AK but slightly worse now.

Im saying do you want to keep the outlandish shit on gadgets and keep guns normal?

[spring spear]

But even then you would be getting less value out of it than youd be getting out of other gadgets and the fact that it is on medium means its harder to get into a position where you can mark all 3 of them

[unkempt moss]

I think thats his point, if I had to guess. Hes wanting the ARN to be slower but higher damage but with decent range. Let rhe XP in the role of the ARN right now.

[muted condor]

I was thinking of having canon that has six balls in a shot and does 150 damage if they all hit with high arena damage

[sudden pewter]

It’s not outlandish, it’s a virtual environment (gameshow logic) and the contestants have gadgets that fuck with that virtual environment (mainly thanks to CNS)

[cosmic berry]

mb in high level lobbies with comms, but this isn't my experience with it, tho i haven't run it in ranked bc it's light exclusive and im bad at light

[unkempt moss]

Okay, that's my point exactly with adding strange guns.

[cosmic berry]

and it only takes a lil peek to get detected :3

[compact tundra]

Don't worry young one, he is old and senile, the tracking dart is amazing and perfect and I love the fact that the tracking dart screams to your whole team "JUMP THAT MOTHERFUCKER RIGHT THERE, DROP EVERYTHING AND JUMP THAT BITCH NOW". It's a secret S tier like the data reshaper

[spring spear]

I just think the gadget as a whole needs a rework before we can change anything about it since as I said it just doesnt provide enough value even if you hit a full team with it to consider running

[hardy dust]

It would be funny if tracking dart revealed your position to the entire lobby

[cosmic berry]

you understand the truth

[compact tundra]

If it did this I would low key never swap off of it. That'd be the funniest gadget in the whole game

[hardy dust]

Let it hit teammates too 💀

[cosmic berry]

tracking dart then hunting them to the ends of the map is the best experience in the game

[compact tundra]

💀

[sudden pewter]

Yes, (IMO) guns should remain largely realistic. Thus primarily influencing engagement ranges rather than affecting playstyles (specializations)

[cosmic berry]

this would be incredible. stop fighting, kill that guy in particular

[spring spear]

that doesnt end well for most teams

[unkempt moss]

Okay. That's where we are different.

But I understand the thinking behind it.

[compact tundra]

Bro ran away from a melee heavy with no winch and acts like a light would be the same. Grenade kill was sick tho

[spring spear]

he did have winch, he just missed it
it would be the same with a light because the ttk vs light with fcar is even better

[cosmic berry]

ok but the thing is tracking dart has near perfect hipfire accuracy, like comprable to ads akimbo. at close to mid range you can tap them really easily without needing to scope, and wallhacks is a big advantage :3

[spring spear]

i wouldnt even need to manouver the way i did vs light, i wouldve killed them without needing to move lol

[unkempt moss]

@sudden pewter Is there a point at which you think they just need to stop adding weapons? It seems like we would eventually hit a saturation point of weapon types being on every class.

[compact tundra]

They can headshot too man, and dash dodge, and hit from safe angles, and it tells their entire team where you are, your shots are good but not good enough for all lights it be a free kill, there will always be players who can out play you and a good light is a nightmare if they have wall hacks on you for 15s

[spring spear]

wallhacks isnt even that big of an advantage when most people are already sitting on highground poking other teams before they can engage anyway
its a really niche gadget and that is why its never run which is why i think it needs a rework

[unkempt moss]

Right now the best we are getting is pistol but medium. GL but light.

From the community ideas I mean.

[sudden pewter]

Absolutely. Overchoice and X but Y balance are things that should be avoided. But frankly I don’t feel we’re there yet. I’m fine with no new weapons for some time as we need melee weapons as a whole and a few guns rebalanced.

[spring spear]

they cant hit from any angle that i cant hit them back to and with headshots they still die before they can get a kill
the ONLY reason tracking dart gave that team ANY kind of value is because my team were randoms that didnt protect me (the only m) and if i was running with a stack theyd just stick to me which wouldve made that push even worse
the reason they were chasing me was because a light with tracking dart hit me and i deleted him in the first place

[placid slate]

We aren't getting any of these rebalances anymore the balance team has given up

[sudden pewter]

As long as any weapon is unique enough either functionally or in terms of “feel” I’m satisfied. I’m also okay with Embark shutting on established balance for the sake of experimentation (which they’ve done with the BFR) but they need to fucking communicate

[unkempt moss]

Okay. I didnt realize how set you were on keeping it the how it is.

[sudden pewter]

Whadyamean

[unkempt moss]

For some reason I thought you were the type to want some forward progress with additions and wanted more novelty from the firearms.

[sudden pewter]

I’m old fashioned. I don’t need new toys to keep me entertained. Novelty for novelties sake doesn’t rev my engine

[unkempt moss]

But in the past you had said you want it to be the same game, not 2.0.

[spring spear]

besides i dont consider myself good but in the current meta where people want you to chase them so you can kite them with poke weapons? tracking dart actually just does nothing most of the time
imagine this but being 70m away cause that is how this game is

[sudden pewter]

More Meaningful Options > More Options

[unkempt moss]

Its not just for novelty sake in my head though. Its to open up new possibilities and play styles previously unavailable.

[sudden pewter]

Yes, where I take issue is when the “new play styles previously unavailable” are a departure from the game as we know it

[unkempt moss]

What if its not a departure but an expansion. Pentration as an example, fully seems reasonable in a game like this.

[sudden pewter]

I would lament a new style of play like a drone master specialization that encourages sitting in a quiet corner of the map not moving while piloting gadgets from safety. To me, the contestant is sacred

[sudden pewter]

And I agree, to a point. Penetration is tricky because it can invalidate several safety gadgets and perceived safety

[unkempt moss]

I dont know if I have suggested something that takes that contestant out of play like that. Maybe I have just spitballing.

[sudden pewter]

Not against the concept, but the implementation needs to be done tactfully and Embark is anything but capable as of recent

[sudden pewter]

Someone suggested taking manual control of turrets and I said “R6” and shitthrowing ensued

[unkempt moss]

I dont operate in embarks world when im theory crafting though.

[unkempt moss]

Your assessment and trivialization was warranted in that case.

[cosmic berry]

perhaps it isn't amazing in long range poke if you can't counterpoke, but i still choose to believe. it could be reworked to hit headshots for 10 damage instead of 5. in all seriousness, showing extra info on the hit enemies (health/cooldowns through walls or smth) could be a rework, or having dart times stack (if you hit an enemy 4 times they are tracked for 1 min instead of resetting the timer)

[sudden pewter]

That’s what I mean, using The Finals as a sandbox is stupid. We already have a structure, rather than reinventing the wheel any new additions should respect and be designed to coexist and if possible play with what’s already here

As an example, your penetration gun. What if instead of penetrating terrain, it penetrated shields?

Barricade is still “terrain”, so it remains effective. But domes? Mesh? Fair game.

[indigo nexus]

mesh shield counter gun 😭

[spring spear]

yeah showing more info would be a good idea, maybe make it so if you hit a wall instead of a player it turns into a mini proxy sensor
i just think it needs to be a better gadget before we think about giving it to other builds because atm its just not gonna do anything

[muted condor]

What if I penetrated you?

[unkempt moss]

You don't like hard counters to things though. So I assume that would be your rebuttal if I was to pose something like that.

[muted condor]

Oops killed chat

Mb gang

[cosmic berry]

if it was on medium i could run it in ranked and understand how it could be reworked better 🥺🥺🥺

[unkempt moss]

Happens. I dont really know if it was going anywhere since its a foundational disagreement

[muted condor]

Canon wouldn’t be a disagreement

[unkempt moss]

Thing is, I think Embarks line of thinking is more in line with catter and not mine. So it'll probably go that way.

[spring spear]

if we take it as it is i have no issue with giving it to medium I just think it wouldnt get used

[unkempt moss]

They have too many spinning plates as is with the things that are possible. So adding new things doesnt help that.

[cosmic berry]

i would use it 🥺

[sudden pewter]

Yeah because it jiggles when I walk and I’m a big brain boy.

[spring spear]

OK you are in charge of gadget balance for the next 4 seasons so embark can hire you

[muted condor]

Imagine how much it would jiggle with a canon

[unkempt moss]

I am defeated. I'll just ask for regular things now.

[sudden pewter]

Embark is clearly okay with experimenting with things otherwise considered no-no’s though. So you never know. Light has a better healing gadget than Mediums specialization. Heavy now has insane poke potential. What’s next, maybe a penetration gun 🤷‍♂️

[compact tundra]

Think about it bro 3 cannon balls and a alt fire cannon ball that can

• explode in a cloud of gas upon impact
• explode in a ball of fire upon impact
• explode in a BALL OF HEALING upon impact
• explode in a cloud of smoke upon impact
• or just straight up add a true explosion upon impact

And the best part
GAMBLING
YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE WHICH, YOU GET TO PULL THAT SLOT MACHINE EVERY TIME YOU SPAWN OR ENTER A ROOM

[muted condor]

Never give in keep going. Just how I’ll never stop hating you just not stop because of the hate

[indigo nexus]

the finals NEEDS elemental magic weapons!

[spring spear]

and i need to make dinner anyone want some tacos

[muted condor]

That’s a little to much imo

[sudden pewter]

Until Embark finally fucking communicates everything is on the table. For all we know the next gadget will be a YuGiOh card that when thrown at an enemy challenges them to a Tic Tac Toe game and the loser dies (45s cooldown)

[spring spear]

this is more plausible than a nerf to repeater

[compact tundra]

Na bro, it's simple, the cannon eats the barrels

[muted condor]

We could do a side by side canon

[cosmic berry]

ok like mb 5-10m or so of detection where it lands, including on players to force seperating a bit(?) it could also ricochet mb to go around corners ooooo

[stoic garden]

this is so real

[cosmic berry]

YES!!!!!

[sudden pewter]

I still love you babygirl you just need to listen to me and only me and wear the kneesocks

[unkempt moss]

Honestly I'm just going to put the creative energy in to something more important.

[sudden pewter]

Now get in #👂┇game-feedback and ask for a black cat tail to match the ears 😘

[spring spear]

i mean this already is probably more thought than embark has given it in the last 5 seasons

[stoic garden]

repeater will be nerfed in season 13 by reducing both damage and rpm, and buffing pike to 60 damage and adding a medium sniper rifle

[sudden pewter]

Nothing is more important than video games

[unkempt moss]

True. But my table top system needs finishing.

[spring spear]

It will have its rpm reduced by 5 and embark will be like hmmm we see repeater pick rate has dropped from 100% to 99%so we are buffing its rpm by 20 and its damage by 3

[muted condor]

I’m thinking about making two of them

[sudden pewter]

It got Orks?

(I was testing methods of painting skin)

[unkempt moss]

Kinda. Its based on Monster Hunter so they wouldn't be called that.

I also have the fighting game one that is dusty as hell. I was making one for the finals but its too much work.

[compact tundra]

Oo, oo, mine does

I like orcs. They big and hit hard. My system also has shadowrun style trolls

[cosmic berry]

embark please hire meeeee id give EVERY class tracking dart and reverse the health pools. RANDOM LOADOUTS ONLY! I would give more cat tail and ear and everything cosmetics, and add a new cat class thats just a cat that runs around and can paw at people. id also give heavy the sniper rifle that came to me in a dream its kinda a laser but also not and it looks and works like the minecraft gaurdian thingy u charge it up while it lasers then a high damage projectile but the laser hurts a lil too. also cl40 and rpg and mg could now rocket jump and id also make the movement system that of titanfall 2 and id add fnaf skins and gregory to the game. i'd rebalance everything by RANDOMLY generating EVERY stat for EVERY weapon and also making the slot machines in vegas work so u can GAMBLE ur multibucks!!!!!!!!!! but the house always wins so itd be RIGGED unless ur name had house in it like house md but u cant have house without wilson so id add the house update and all the house md content to the game new weapons and cosmetics and classes and maps itd be a whole ass season

[unkempt moss]

Monster Hunter has most of the fantasy races, they just have different names.
Humans
Wyverians (halflings, elves, giants)
Troverians (dwarves)
Lynians (Goblinoids, Beast People)
Sea People.

[stoic garden]

sea people

[spring spear]

you know an ltm with random loadouts ala halo fiesta would be pretty good

[muted condor]

Iv always wanted a bio tech system so I decided I’d do it myself eventually

[unkempt moss]

Its a lot of work and my ADHD keeps it even more difficult.

[spring spear]

you pick a build but the loadout is randomized every spawn
or you dont even get to pick a build and everything is random every spawn
hell make it so that you can get things that dlnt belong to the build youre playing

[sudden pewter]

Class
Embark, remove their organ privileges

[unkempt moss]

What kind of bio tech do you want?

[spring spear]

so much possibilities instead we just get cashball again
though i guess people did like cashball

[muted condor]

That’s why I’m procrastinating on starting because I know I’ll need a lot of time

[sudden pewter]

Wyverians lay eggs and I love the implications this has

[muted condor]

Medieval H.R. Giger

If that makes any sense

[cosmic berry]

yaaaaa!

[unkempt moss]

Oh okay, so like a dark fantasy bio tech. That could be reallt cool.

Almost body horror

[cosmic berry]

wait what are they called

[spring spear]

argonians drop cocaine in morrowind

[unkempt moss]

Builds

[sudden pewter]

The Hist gave Argonians breasts because they noticed the Mer had them and thought they were cool

[sudden pewter]

Builds and/or Archetypes

[unkempt moss]

Builds if youre a shill, archetypes if youre not.

[spring spear]

I HATE THALMOR

[sudden pewter]

I DIE FOR THE DOMINION

18 YEAR OLD ELF QUEEN FUCK IT WHY NOT

[spring spear]

is that all youve got, CAT!?

[cosmic berry]

ooooo id also add a lot more archebuilytpeses and magic and hatsune miku and ughhhh idk id go power crazy id probably replace everything with tracking dart

[muted condor]

Yeah, basically if you can cut it off a person or animal you can attach it to yourself.
One of the features I know I want for sure is calorie intake and specific diets actually being important to keeping your bio tech working properly

[sudden pewter]

You want a different game.

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

[spring spear]

tracking dart on heavy is 100% something embark would pull though

[unkempt moss]

That sounds like a nightmare to track but I love simulation play.

[sudden pewter]

They’ll probably make reworked thermal universal to ensure smoke isn’t a “Gotcha” on Light

[cosmic berry]

no i want power. i want to be a tyrant who can play god with the balance. i also want money please venmo me money

[sudden pewter]

I regret checking

[muted condor]

It would be crunchy as all hell but I feel like it would fit the theme. If you want to have a full exoskeleton and upgrade your legs so you can run 30mph while weighing 300lbs you can but you’re gonna burn through your group’s food and your buddy who needs his specific diet to keep his poison potent will not be very happy.

[unkempt moss]

How scarce will food be?

[stoic garden]

as much as your morals make it.

[unkempt moss]

Fair

[compact tundra]

You know what I've never done, design a unique gamemode for this game, I shall return later today with one

[unkempt moss]

Catter and I talked about his the other day. Seemed pretty fun. I have one that I think could be fun.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with

[compact tundra]

Already got it cooking just need time to write it out.
I wanna call it
Box Ball Brawl
And it's a football style game mode that takes place in a shooting range style arena (think of the arena map in split gate 1)

[unkempt moss]

I love shooting game mode featuring a ball

[sudden pewter]

Was it that recent? Feels like weeks ago

[unkempt moss]

I think it was last week.

[muted condor]

Depends on where you are. If you’re in city that is a trading center they will have basically any food you want but if you get farther out you might only have access to local foods if any. If you’re going to a desert and you have a poison gland from an animal in a jungle you will need to bring food or supplements from that region.

[unkempt moss]

I'm working on a trading/caravan system for monster hunter. Your system could do something similar and you could run campaigns just off of having traders for players getting rare stuff and selling it in far off lands.

Like have those poison glands stocked up and sell them to people in another land at a premium.

[muted condor]

Exactly

[unkempt moss]

Could be very cool. Its honestly similar to MH but instead of fantasy armor and weapons its limbs and organs youre putting your life on the line for.

There's a lot of possibility with like politics and stuff in your world. Or like getting a loan for some biotech from a corrupt fella, cant pay up and his goons come and carve that poison gland out of you.

[muted condor]

Getting your feet repoed XD

[unkempt moss]

Get your feet taken and then thrown off a pier. Good luck.

[muted condor]

If someone insults you just go buy thicker skin then come back and beat the shit out of them

[unkempt moss]

Just grafting orc skin on yourself to raise your AC

Yes I scalped this frost giant, I would like to transplant his hair on to my body to raise my cold resistance.

[muted condor]

That’s what we call adapting to the situation

[unkempt moss]

Its really good for rewarding your players as well. You can give them stuff besides XP and Gold.

[muted condor]

Also you have to decide who gets what parts of the kills

[unkempt moss]

Trying to end some friendships

I kill David's character and graft his head on to my shoulder, so he is my friend forever.

[muted condor]

David died so I’m gonna to take his skin since he won’t need it anymore

[unkempt moss]

He isnt going to fall off that cliff himself. Give him a little help, take his stuff.

[chilly granite]

normally I'd read all the messages in wepsngadgs but theere's so mcuh what the fuck
it's like there's been 10 mes inchat

[unkempt moss]

wNg is at its best when its off topic.

[kindred gorge]

100% or 0% locked in, no in between

[unkempt moss]

Dont read it, Bow-kun. I was defeated in the arena of debate. I dont want you thinking less of me.

[compact tundra]

From now on bow-kun is @chilly granite name, I just audibly laughed while in the bathroom at work

Had me hittin the speed face

[unkempt moss]

We need to hold a vote here to petition him to change his name on the server to Bow-kun.

[compact tundra]

Fuck we can't run polls in here

[kindred gorge]

thats a stupid thing to lock

get a mod in here

[unkempt moss]

We cant ever have anything nice.

[muted condor]

You have me so that’s one nice thing

[unkempt moss]

True. We should be grateful for the good things we do have.

[compact tundra]

I'm starting to think snale is a tier 1 twink that hides behind jokes

[alpine sphinx]

another day of getting seeding 1 and 2 consistently and losing first round

silver here i come

[kindred gorge]

yeah solo queue sucks

I've heard gold is even worse though

before you finally escape from low elo hell

[alpine sphinx]

duo queue does too

anything but a 3 stack is hell, and in my friend group a 3 stack is probably worse than a 2 stack and a random

[muted condor]

Actually not that far off

[compact tundra]

I feel that so hard, I have 4 people I play with and me and my buddy only play ranked with a random cause the other two either rage too bad or just don't like how sweaty ranked is

[alpine sphinx]

my one friend is just unbelievable garbage at the game

[muted condor]

I do infact have a peak twink build and am beautiful

Sleeper twink some might say

[compact tundra]

Mine are too but garbage I can put up with if they listen to callouts and listen when we try to wrangle them in. The rage homie has no ability to listen whatsoever and is constantly running off on his own to chase butterflies or some shit. The other just gets overstimulated really easily and she does not have fun sweating

[alpine sphinx]

You havent seen garbage if they listen to callouts

[compact tundra]

My fault og, I'll lock in, I wasn't aware we had a baddie amongst us

[compact tundra]

He doesn't at all, that's half the problem. The person who doesn't like to sweat listens fine but cracks easily under pressure

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-griffith-berserk-helmet-off-gif-17645078

[alpine sphinx]

I feel like from 10k to 30k rating its all the same

literally 0 difference in player ability

the ranked system in this game is so fundamentally flawed

[muted condor]

It’s one of the better ones imo

The majority of average players are actually in gold

[alpine sphinx]

yes but the seeding system is stupid, if you are only slightly above all the other teams you still have to dominate the lobby to make any progress

[split skiff]

tbf if you are a top 3 seed, you definitely should dominate the lobby

[alpine sphinx]

no, the seeding system is completely arbitrary in like 80% of games

[muted condor]

I ignore that

[split skiff]

not really

[alpine sphinx]

yes really, especially if you dont trio queue

[split skiff]

gives you an idea of the competition you’re facing

[alpine sphinx]

no it doesnt, because its inaccurate most of the time

[muted condor]

Sorry I’m not reading all that

Good luck tho 07

[muted condor]

Literally me

[alpine sphinx]

I hate griffith

[muted condor]

:) just a fabulous man

Haters gonna hate fr

[chilly granite]

if you are soloqueueing, team cohesion/synergy is a much, much bigger factor affecting win probability than anything else

oh my god I just skimmed all of the shitposting and man

that is some SHITposting

mmmm tasty

wait that didn't embed properly#

[cosmic berry]

new gamemode idea: gregory eggnog.

one player is chosen for gregory eggnog. they must hide. the other players try to kill gregory eggnog. they cannot, for he cannot be killed. Gregory eggnog will find the hiding player. when he does, they will have a dance battle. the player will lose, and get gregory eggnogged. Gregory eggnog will then pick a new player, and the cycle will repeat until all players but one are gregory eggnogged. HOWEVER, the hiding player can see the ghosts of those who have come before them, and these ghosts will lead gregory eggnog to them, so they need to also hide from the ghosts. money can be earned by robbing other players, however you only can rob money they have and since they have no money going in there is no money. gregory eggnog has a lot of money but you cant rob him. there is also a bomb on the map that will explode but sometimes the ghosts say which wire to cut but they can also be lying so watch out. if the hiding player cuts the right wire they can feed the bomb to gregory eggnog and he will give them 5 dollars and gregory eggnog will be satiated for 5 minuites, letting the players rob eachother. afterwards gregory eggnog will resume. gregory eggnogged players cannot be robbed but you can feed them to gregory eggnog to give him the money back if they have the money and they will in turn give you the bomb back but itll be all slippery bc it was eaten so u can only pick it up for like half a second and cant really throw it and he doesnt really want it anymore anyway. one ghost will want the bomb tho and they will give you 2 dollars for it. if u survive 1 hour without getting gregory eggnogged AND have money on u u go up however much money u have ranked points bc this is ranked btw. if the money is on a gregory eggnogged player or you dont have any you lose 100 rp. also if the bomb goes off which it sometimes does. this is my gamemode idea.

[chilly granite]

eyeball issue 🙁 I didnt see this guy and died to him lol

[cosmic berry]

ALSO ITS ONLY IN ONE MAP the one thats like sis horizon but not but the same vibe actually it might be cys horizon

[spring spear]

it really doesnt

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss r8 my immprove

OMG DUDEEE

HIS DOME SHIELD SLID DOWN THE RAMP AND BLOCKED MY ARROW WHEN I WAS GONNA HEADSHOT HIM IN THE DOORWAY

[stoic garden]

find waldo

[stoic garden]

not bros running the triple annoying ass weapon combo lmao

[chilly granite]

the game before we lost to sledge sword p90

I fucked it up, the sledge hammer was in the basement and he onetapped me through the floor

I was meant to clutch with bow vs doublemelee

[unkempt moss]

Already looking a lot better. How's sonar feeling?

[chilly granite]

ehhh

I know my team and I are getting value, but I do struggle to feel it myself because I generally have a fairly good read on enemy positions in combat, so it does feel a bit of a wasted slot

it's helping me win, so I'll keep with it for now thoguh lol

in these games we were on voice chat, so it wasn't very helpful at all,but playing soloqueue it's for sure way better at getting teammates to be useful in combat

[unkempt moss]

At 1:20 you and three lights are standing in the same spot staring in to the distance grouped up. Ideally, with you on grapple you can take vantage points further out and create crossfire relatively safe. Them on dash means they can cross those gaps as effectively. You personally aren't doing anything wrong there, but as a group it was a missplay. Taking those rooftops on the opposite side of bridge or towards the other jump pads. Just look for ways to maximize your value on grapple.

I like sonar for pubs because it can kind of get everyone on the same page, but if youre not getting a ton of value you can switch.

You're playing your life better, and there's not as much time being wasted so its an overall improvement. Your teammates looked lost at times but theres nothing you can do about that without coms and stuff.

Its hard to make a lot happen with your team on triple light, but youre just fragging really hard so you're doing your job.

[chilly granite]

Your teammates looked lost at times but theres nothing you can do about that without coms and stuff.

they were on comms with me but they are both HARD tdm/point break mains lmao, they make me look like a cashout pro

[chilly granite]

our v9s player is an aim monster lol, I had the most kills but that was mostly positioning and gamesense rather than me shooting better than him lol

[unkempt moss]

Any of them play heavy?

[chilly granite]

lmao no hahahaa

casual players hate heavy

but tbh we are all mechanically signficantly better than gold, it's just gamesense gap or we would dominate lobbies even harder lol

[unkempt moss]

Makes sense. You gotta be the igl then.

[chilly granite]

yeah, I was doing so, that's why they were on the roof with me instead of hiding inside like I was before hahahaa

[unkempt moss]

Thats awesome. If you're in coms with a trio you can absolutely drop sonar.

[chilly granite]

I'm still very weak at gamesense in cashout so my iglling wasn't very good

except I gave the best aimer strict instrucitons to never steal until I tell him to, because he made us lose two cashouts because he stole when there were like 3 enemies alive, instead of abusing his aim to kill them all and then stealing hahahaha

he has really bad "steal sense", so if he does it on his own instincts, he'll die for it every time hahahaha

[unkempt moss]

Thats one of the biggest mistakes I see down low. Everyone alive and they want to run in and steal immediately. You can tap to bait the utility, but unless it's a desperate move you usually just want to play the timer and fight until it's pretty much guaranteed you can get the steal.

[chilly granite]

we already have h+, two glitches, and (I think, gateway but I didnt see it used hahah), so I think I probably want (frag/smoke/breach/bore/goo) when I play with them

I had some decent success with smoke in ranked already, but it does feel a lil weird

frag probably isn't needed becaue they're solid/extremely good aimers

so probably breach/thermalbore/goo

[unkempt moss]

H+ on triple light isn't going to get a ton of value. I'd drop it for nullifier.

[chilly granite]

yeah there were 3 enemies but two were half hp, and we had 12 seconds - even with him feeding for the steal, we were only short 1s on the steal :/ if he fought with us, it was a won fight for sureeee

we were 8th seed thoguh and that round got 5/6 and only -50

[unkempt moss]

I'm not really a light player though.

[chilly granite]

in theory yes but since you lack defib and chip damage is so crippling, it's pretty nice to have one on the team

yaro h+ing me and then I can facetank a cb with bow is scary as fuck for the enemy

[unkempt moss]

For sure. When I play light I usually drop it unless I have a heavy.

Its definitely nice for keeping people in the fight for sure.

[chilly granite]

if teddy was running it, I'd tell him to drop it, but yaro can aim well enough to hit a light in combat so it actually works out well LMAO

the biggest anti-synergy of light on light H+ is actualyl just tryna hit your light with it hahahaha

plus with his gamesense, he'd likely approach nullifier like he does steals and feed for it lol

[unkempt moss]

I wish this game had replay sharing

[chilly granite]

man idk I had terrible timing last game, like I just kept choosing the worst possible time to do everything lol

[unkempt moss]

Everyone has bad games. It only needs to be 51% good games to climb.

We'll say 55%

[potent scaffold]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1435493400932651018/dirtspeechbubble.gif

[unkempt moss]

Embedfailure.gif

[unkempt moss]

Or you could be like this guy who has never lost

[chilly granite]

I climbed wiht a negative winrate in dota 2 because I had so many losses from when I was bad that they still outnumbed my wins after I started climbing

[unkempt moss]

There you go. That's good mindset.

As long as you want to improve its all worth it. Calling a good mental dirt 4 is peak dumbfuckery

[serene glade]

hes dirt 4 in relations with his father tbf, he cant help himself

[unkempt moss]

You hate to see it.

[serene glade]

But all my redditor friends thought it was epic and cool

[potent scaffold]

Just be better. -ur dad

[unkempt moss]

Sorry hes not ruby like you. Hes still learning to play cashout. I'd take a 51% win rate light trying to get better over some dumbass ruby clown like you any day.

[potent scaffold]

Waaa waaa waaa keep coping and crying

[serene glade]

notice how he brought up "ur dad" but its because he so deeply craves the fatherly connection that his will not give him because hes in fact not proud of him

[potent scaffold]

Whatever makes bro sleep at night

[unkempt moss]

Embarrassing.

[serene glade]

dont you have an appointment to take it up the ass or something to get to?

[potent scaffold]

Thanks for reminding me Il go see your mom soon

[serene glade]

that will go crazy on reddit bro, frame that one

[potent scaffold]

This would’ve made numbers on Facebook 🥀💔

[unkempt moss]

I hate when game feedbackers find out other channels dont have a 6 hour cooldown.

[potent scaffold]

Everyone does pall you just told me 1+1=2

[unkempt moss]

Got me. Did you need more attention or is that good?

[serene glade]

@unkempt moss do people like this play fighting games or nah

[unkempt moss]

2XKO.

[serene glade]

ahhhh yeah that makes sense

[fossil verge]

BOYS (and girls too, and anything in between)

I need advice on the model and what skin I get

Dough wrangler or eclipse shade..... I'm so torn it's unreal

Ones got that classic western look, ones got the classic tactical swat team look

[chilly granite]

I hit some real nasty shots last game lol

oh god 2nd seed with double barrel, m11 and bow lights

[hexed pawn]

Wrangler

[fossil verge]

@umbral lodge I think you can weigh in, what's your take?

[umbral lodge]

Honestly depends what outfit u got with it

[fossil verge]

Do you own both?

Also my outfit is, and will always remain, frog

[umbral lodge]

Ya lol the eclipse came out way after so

I PERSONALLY use eclipse shade but both r cool

[fossil verge]

Do you notice any play style difference at all? And take more of your screen, etc

[umbral lodge]

Mmm eclipse is slightly bigger but nothing noticeable. But ya the same just look different

[fossil verge]

I'm in love with my skin, he's never being changed

[umbral lodge]

Mmm that’s tuff because both could work lol

[fossil verge]

In a sense, neither would match at all, meaning they'd both work equally

[umbral lodge]

Just go off what u like bro u could even use a different skin but I assume u want the flip between shots animation

[fossil verge]

Yep, you told me it helps time shots last week

[umbral lodge]

Ya it def does for me and everyone I’ve talked to

[fossil verge]

I think I'll go eclipse

[umbral lodge]

Just follow ur heart bro

[fossil verge]

whats the best mine on medium rn

[delicate plover]

anyone tryna play ranked? Im a light main and im high silver

im on ps5 as well

[unkempt moss]

Glitch

[chilly granite]

none

[chilly granite]

glitch isn't mine it's trap 🙂

[muted condor]

It’s not even a mine and it’s still the best one

[kindred gorge]

Pyro still I bet

Even with the blast reduction it still one taps a light sometimes

[static epoch]

Does ruby spear exist

[chilly granite]

check the wiki

it will this season because you can make a ruby anything now

wait does that playback properly for you guys?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah.

[chilly granite]

ok it doesn't work for me lol

I need to kite off people more, becuase I kept running out of mousepad

[unkempt moss]

Nullifier saved you almost perfectly. Looks like it allowed you to regen 6 health, you had four after the explosion. Crazy.

[chilly granite]

I made a lot of mistakes in this fight, the biggest of which was doulbe throwing my sonars

[chilly granite]

bro I just used null to let me move my hand so I had mmore mmousepad hahahahahaha

111hp before the explosion

null actually carried so hard there

[unkempt moss]

Oh i thought it was 108.

[chilly granite]

I had to go frame by frame to see it hahahaha

[unkempt moss]

Either way, it came in clutch.

Nullifier is so good. I dont know the light meta but it feels so slept on.

[chilly granite]

tbh I kinda griefed by carrying my team that hard because after that fight they respected me so much we couldn't really do anything, they didn't risk pushing in the same way hahahaa

I scared them into playing well

I really want to throw a second sonar at 14:45 but I had wasted it

this fight, feels like the one we were most meant to win that lost us the game tbh

i'm really not sure how I was meant to position here, or anything lmao

now that's climbing hahahah

tbh I'm pretty sure I did more than my fair share that game lol

and it was +rs so I'm happy

[unkempt moss]

Its just one of those times you play on your back foot because your teammate got picked below you. They played it right by pushing after the pick, its hard to come back from that when already took position in the house.

Halfway to plat.

It looks like you're getting more comfortable with you sonar usage.

And i remember when you had no idea how you were supposed to be using null, so thats obviously improved.

Im not sure if you're using to stop objectives, but one of my favorites is nullifying someone trying to stop the steal. And they have to just sit there and watch your team win

You'll be hitting a point soon where my coaching skills will run out for light.

[chilly granite]

yeah I had a nice fight in a previous game, where I used null to win the point

we lost the final round, and only got there because they greifed us into it hahaha but I made sure they got scared for griefing us in

[unkempt moss]

For sure. You're picking it up fast. You're very coachable which is a good trait to have. Im sure one of the light rubies in wNg can have you take it to the next level with some help.

I think XenosYear is a ruby light if you need help.

[chilly granite]

tbh I'll worry about it when I hit a wall lol

I only lost like, 1.5 games today? -50 rs on one and then one was like, -300

[unkempt moss]

Your bow savant powers will probably be enough for a while with those minor changes.

Would be cool to be a ruby bow fella.

[chilly granite]

hahaha

I want ruby bow skin tbh

[unkempt moss]

I think someone named Bow User should probably have one.

At the very least, you could have a plat or diamond one.

You're doing great, bud.

[chilly granite]

plat bow is my minimum goal

[chilly granite]

@sudden pewter you know what's mystifying? Diamond 4's last season going 12-11 in tdm vs lvl 20s, who are obviously new and not smurfs

be whatever level u wanna be, but holy shit, how on earth do you get to diamond 4 being that fkn bad

oh waiiit it might have been world tour diamond

idk why they both have a diamond rank, that's so dumb

hahaha you can tell i'm a bankit/tdm main

lol

damn this shit takkkkes sssoooo loooong

@unkempt moss an actually good idea; loser bracket finals

[chilly granite]

I mean, the premise he starts from is kinda shit

but the conculsion is very good

and ranked games would have a more consistent length

[gloomy bobcat]

Is there a meta build for medium rn? I’ve been running the model, goo nade, defib, and jump pad

[chilly granite]

cb not model, otherwise yes

cb has better time to kills than model, it has no spread, and it has 40m falloff
there is 0 advantage to using the model unless youre a masochist

[chilly granite]

bruh

I literally lost last game because my heavy didn't want to winch the cashbox on moving platformm soeuld

it was +90

but it should've been a first place, the enemies were so bad

idk, neither my teammates were hitting shots, and my medium wasn't landing defibs either

[chilly granite]

@serene glade do you like my idea of amethyst skins for top 500 in non-ranked leaderboards

😄 hahahahah

[hardy dust]

The main advantage is being able to maintain full movement but that really aint worth everything repeater offers 😔

[chilly granite]

@hardy dust repeater spread pattern is umm.. questionable, so that' advantage isn't real anyway

bruh I started losing and I went tdm and my score is mid

I think my medicine wore off cuz I stayed up too long

[vale obsidian]

Do flame thrower go through shield?
Or is it just after burn

[chilly granite]

Hi Niclas,

I'm not sure if you're the balance lead, but I think I speak for the whole community when I say that we are owed an apology from the balance team for the failure to nerf the repeater and BFR in the last patch. You can pick someone else to throw under the bus, but the repeater is hilariously poorly balanced.

I'm not sure where the problem lies in your balancing/game design process, but there must be a problem somewhere, for a weapon which has hipfire spread similar to the model*, damage breakpoints similar to the model, a headshot multiplier, a faster rate of fire than the model, and 40 meters of falloff, to be approved.

Also, you give medium and heavy ranged weapons that can each deal more than half of a light's hp pool. And wonder why light is no longer popular?

And the patch notes:

"Dev Note: We’ve seen both ‘poke’ (long ranged, high damage) and ‘brawl’ (short ranged, high damage) weapons increasingly becoming the top weapons in the meta over the last season or so, and this was never really intentional. It’s left a lot of automatic weapons struggling performance wise by comparison, so we’re making various small nudges to a range of automatic weapons in 9.7 to help them out. This FCAR change, a small buff in overall DPS for the weapon, is one of those. "

Why are we buffing weapons that don't need a buff, mostly inconsequentially buffing them, instead of simply doing what is needed and ensuring that the weapon with 40m of range, doesn't have better stats than the shotgun with 15m range.

I suspect the balance team is just comparing DPS, and not ttks and breakpoints. I have sent support a spreadsheet that can calculate headshot, quickmelee, and raw time to kill for each class.

If you're not responsible for balance, please refer the balance team to wepsngadgs to discuss, but light needs 180hp, and dash and invis should be nerfed so that new players dont hate light and light is playable with grapple/dash/invi @maiden trench

*hipfire in all stances on the repeater has a good chance (I think1/4 but I didn't test throughly) of a spread smaller/similar to that of the model's spread

If you're going to give medium/heavy ranged weapons with more than X/Y damage, then you need to give light more than X/Y hp

right now, 88+90, 178

heavy and medium being able to double peek (quite literlaly, as heavy is taller than medium adn can stand behind medium) and oneshot light is not ok

ignoring that the bfr/repeater are superior to the SR84 (when you consider the HP pool of the class they are on, and that they are hitscan to infinity) in a duel individually

evasive dash and invis don't have obvious counters to a new player and I would be shocked if they aren't a significant cause of new player retention issues (assuming that those exist, obviously I don't have access to new player retention figures)

buffing light to 180hp makes nerfing both dash and invis to make them more obviously counterable would be signfiicantly beneficial IMHO

Grapple feels more fun and fair for both user and victim

Also there should be a melee tutorial, to teach players how to fight against melee, which could also introduce invisbility (backstab) and how to counter it

[wide stratus]

Need a gun that shoots out cheeseburgers

[indigo nexus]

The balance guy’s name is Matt, isn’t it?

[gusty plume]

Are there weapons where there is no benefit whatsoever to ADS? I believe it's the case for all shotguns (including matter, which has sights up to 2x for some reason??), RPG, both grenade launchers and maaaybe the minigun. But I'm not sure. Any opinions?

[alpine sphinx]

i did it fellas

[tight jacinth]

minigun gets bonus in ADS, they recently change it so that if you ADS, stand still, and crouch you get bonus accuracy but unfortunately you become a standing target

[gusty plume]

crouching gives accuracy???
(dont mind me, im a nub)

[alpine sphinx]

in many shooters it does

[tight jacinth]

with minigun only, other weapons dont get a bonus

you get random spread added to every gun if you are in the air, its worse if you're going up and it gets slightly better when you are falling

[gusty plume]

are there any other unusual aiming features? i recall something about the CL or smth. or was it the model

[chilly granite]

only "matt" in the discord is mattv, who's a technical artist

and his posts are mostly him getting flamed by someone who thought he was matt from balance

and him correcting them KEKW

[tight jacinth]

rpg is slighty inaccurate when not ADSing but that's it, idk if there's anything else

[chilly granite]

@pallid pilot excuse me, do you know the discord @ for the balance matt? I would like to complain 🙂

[serene glade]

It's not a horrendous idea especially with the playerbase going down in ranked it feels like and when you're up high enough the queues can just take forever. More uptime in game and less in queue is a positive

[serene glade]

[chilly granite]

having cashout -> winners bracket, losers bracket round 2 cashout -> first/second, third/foruth, fifth/sixth, seventh/eight final round also means you have a much more consistent experience for everyone

like if you're not great at cashout, you can not get to final round, like ever lol

I mean, I don't like final round, I think it should at least be a first to 3 cashouts

I also think the timer for final round is stupid long

[serene glade]

If anything I feel like you can just have round 1 losers so keep the 5/6 7/8 eliminated and then just have a 3rd/4th place game. You have 4 teams requeing around the same time that way, and the lower seeds are usually eliminated so they should have a better chance of getting back into games more according to their seed

[chilly granite]

I mean I think it's much better to have a consistent experience for everyone

it's a lot easier to balance for a consistent expeirence

and if everyone has final round, you have a 50% winrate average, rahter than a 1/8 winrate

[kindred gorge]

I don't think losers bracket for bottom 4 would be good though, since you're bound to go negative at that point anyway a lot of people would just leave the game

but a head to head for 3rd and 4th I do like

[chilly granite]

each bracket should have different elo gain or loss based on who the opponent is

which woudl also help with enemies griefing worse enemies into later stages

I mena, that should already be true

[serene glade]

Yeah that is another point, the ranked points would need a rework if you do that, because I have seen the way people dump their self worth into their rank. Nobody is gonna play for pride

[chilly granite]

if first seed got elim'd in first round, the teams that fought them shuld all have boosted elo gain, regardless of anything else

meanwhile the other 2 teams that didn't fight first seed should not

however, if I elim first seed in round 1, and then lose to second seed in round 3, second seed gets the "victory reward" of having come first place

which promotes griefing

[viscid carbon]

I love how they don't like having a poke meta but don't nerf the actual poke weapons and instead give inconsequential buffs or straight up sidegrades to automatics

[chilly granite]

and poke weapons

[serene glade]

The balance team isn't smart, or creative, or handsome

[chilly granite]

why
on
earth
did
pike
get
buffed

[viscid carbon]

inconsequential buff

[chilly granite]

@daring grove is this an alias? are you balance matt from embark? can we bully you for buffing poke wepoans when you complained about poke meta in the patch notes?

[serene glade]

It's inconsequential because they are dumb, but the intention is there I guess lmao

[kindred gorge]

this could result in teams who play honestly still getting punished sometimes when low seed teams gets really lucky

[chilly granite]

lucky wins and losses are normal, and will get ironed out with more games played

lucky wins and losses happen in like, 1 in 4 games

greifs happen in like, half

[viscid carbon]

These "balance patches" are literally just: nerf/buff x weapon damage by 1, firerate by 10/20, and falloff by 2/2.5m

Actually pathetic

[kindred gorge]

But also, griefing is kinda just part of the strategy of the game

[chilly granite]

embark doesn't seem to realize that everyone will remeber the nerfs, but forget the buffs

so you need one really fuckin big nerf, so that you can give it a lot of little buffs

[olive pier]

That's what "balance" is ,not too much not too less

[kindred gorge]

why wouldn't you want to promote a team you can beat?

[serene glade]

Couple weeks ago they nerfed the repeater by giving it a .03s ads nerf, please be grateful

[chilly granite]

collusion is punished in any esport, if they want it to be an esport collusion shouldn't be normal in the ranked mode

[viscid carbon]

The problem is that it's too little

[chilly granite]

I mean, the buffs tend to be heavy handed and the nerfs tend to be light

which is a bigger problem

buffs are either 0 impact or heavy handed**

and nerfs are almost always gentle caresses of a lover

[kindred gorge]

collusion implies it was premeditated, the bad team is really just a victim/benefactor of circumstance

[olive pier]

Understandable but take a pencil for example,you can't balance it in only 2 tries if your not familiar

[viscid carbon]

They do inconsequential buffs but if they touch a weapon that used to be meta in the past they'll either change something that does absolutely nothing for the gun, or add a compensatory nerf to a minor buff because they're afraid it'll suddenly explode back into the meta again

[shadow blade]

Anyone know when thermal vision is coming back?

That was my main before it got removed 10 decades ago

[olive pier]

Atp forget about it, just like bloodborne 2

[chilly granite]

collusion doesn't require premeditation

strongest team just says, who's bad and who wants mmr? come and get it

that's not strategy, that's collusion

not to mention, even if it is strategy, because it's not in your own control, it will not be representative of your onw skill level, therefore making your rank inaccurate

[serene glade]

Next big balance patch, trust

(they don't do big balance patches anymore)

[shadow blade]

When is that

[kindred gorge]

inshallah another damage +/-1 to the pike

[shadow blade]

It's been almost 2 seasons since they removed it

[serene glade]

Another +1 pike would actually make it really strong again. They just don't know how to make the repeater and pike different enough. If one is good one will be bad. They are creatively bankrupt for literally every weapon

[chilly granite]

creatively bankrupt or making reskins and wondering why a reskin doesn't work differently

[kindred gorge]

We've done the dance enough to establish tweaking damage will inevitabilty make it too strong or too weak, they just need to go back to the increased headshot cause it was in a good state then

[chilly granite]

or you know, just change rate of fire?

i mean, pike shuld be ass

it a sniper rifle on medium, asking for it to be good is a bad idea, light is a meance with sr84 in powershift and that's a 150hp target

give it 250hp and yeah it'll be fucked

[kindred gorge]

It's what a poke weapon should be, opressive but not insanely lethal

[chilly granite]

here's the thing, sniper is balanced around light being a strong breeze away from death, so even without poke weapons people can fight back

that doesn't work against medium//pike/repeater/bfr

[kindred gorge]

I agree

[serene glade]

I really think they need try making some guns fully projectile and see how it feels, buffing along with the change to fit it no longer being a laser beam. But we will continue getting .03s ads nerfs, the worst balance patch of all time, followed by an immediate "get ready for more Esports" announcement

[chilly granite]

a sniper on medium or heavy, needs to be projectile, and it needs to be numerically bad

it shuold not be good, because the second it is good, it will be meta defining

same as sr84

[kindred gorge]

heavy should not have a sniper

[olive pier]

E sports rlly ruined the whole thinking behind balance

[kindred gorge]

making the titan projectile would be interesting though, maybe the peater as well

[chilly granite]

all of this is true regardless of esports, I odn't get how esports comes intoplay here

[serene glade]

The thing is you could make the KS back to fully projectile and have less damage fall off and I don't think it would be that strong

[chilly granite]

they need 3 shot light so its possible for a light of similar skill to fight back

and they need to be slower ttk than the model

an sr84 should win unless the cb/bfr hits double headshot

[kindred gorge]

maybe not the peater cause it needs to be good at range and struggle in close quarters. Longer ads time?

[chilly granite]

make its spread actally spread would be a good start

[kindred gorge]

lower fire rate would give it a good adjustment

[chilly granite]

@frigid raven btw u profile says introducing bugs, is it ur fualt the repeater doesn't have a functinoal spread pattern? (joke) please refer my ocmplaint to blaance team and get them to make the repeater not spread tighter than the model please

[olive pier]

Cuz more people lean into "oh cuz ntmr used it it must be good so I'll use it too" it stops players from being creative and different and that leads into other players making static loadsouts to counter that particular thing, it's a loop of sort

[chilly granite]

I mean, ntmr used it because it is good

I'm firmmly creative player, I run grapple bow flash null sonar

[static leaf]

Embark, add a gadget for medium that can either change your teams speed or slow enemy team? chat is this a bad idea?

[chilly granite]

but that doesn't mean that there aren't objectively correct choices, and that's not ntmr's fault, that's the fault of the balance team

[chilly granite]

zip jump pad glitch trap goo

[static leaf]

does glitch trap slow? :0

[chilly granite]

it breaks dash and grapple and charge and slam

[olive pier]

Not ntmr fault ofc

[chilly granite]

it's not esports fault either, it's the fault of the balance teeam; even without esports peeople congregate around a meta

[serene glade]

Also makes you drop the box which I'll never understand

[kindred gorge]

crowd control is more heavy's bag anyways, I think a spec that buffs move speed and jump height would be awesome though

[chilly granite]

heavies bag is everything becasue the real embark matt is clearly a heavy main

[olive pier]

Indeed but eSports displays it without needing to search it up as much

[chilly granite]

should I @ all the embark heavy mains and ask if they're the head of balance team because of the clear heavy bias in balalncing?

[kindred gorge]

matt give heavy a movement gadget it would be hysterical

[chilly granite]

I figure if I @ enoguh embark people eventually one will get pissed off and get someone to deal with me

I stand by rpg being used for rocket jumping, it would be hilarious

[kindred gorge]

self lockbolting to swing like the grappling hook

[serene glade]

Where's the mgl rework at guys I'm starting to think it's not real

[kindred gorge]

I didnt think it needed one

[chilly granite]

was there ever a mgl reworkpromised? who even cares about mgl

oh, I bet it's the balance guy, since he's a heavy main

[olive pier]

A separate rocket like the Rocket Jumper from tf2 would be funny af as u can use it as a vertical travel for heavy only and as a C&S assist

[kindred gorge]

as much as I want the move speed buffing spec I think the biggest balancing issue is figuring out how stacking the effect works

[serene glade]

Season 3 they mentioned it

[chilly granite]

that would be op, the rpg as movement is valid because it denies heavy a super immportant cooldown and deals a shitload of selfdamage

[chilly granite]

HAHAHA SEASON 3

IS THERE ANYONE EVEN ON THE BALANCE TEAM

[olive pier]

High risk high reward

[chilly granite]

exactly, rocket jumper doesn't have the risk, so would be super op

[kindred gorge]

functionally, the shockwave grenade from fortnite would not be out of place

[olive pier]

How so?

[kindred gorge]

no self damage

[chilly granite]

no self damage and u cafn have rpg in the other slots

[static leaf]

I wanna Lucio and ''help my team'' ooohhh a gadget or weapon that pushes enemies or teammates would be fun, (troll potential)

[chilly granite]

being able to rocket jumper for highground advantage and then rpg down on the enemies and CNS on top of that, would be insanely op

that's an s1 nuke

[kindred gorge]

orbital precsion strike heavy sounds so fun, sorry to say

[olive pier]

Ye but u can add like 200 on self

[serene glade]

Last mgl change was season 4 where they buffed the reload by .3s

[olive pier]

It be like those modded servers on tf2 where it's just hulk jump heavies with sandviches

[kindred gorge]

what if you made it a weapon? a quad barrel rocket launcher that pushes yourself (with self damage) or opponents and hits on impact, but does less damage and doesn't have wall break

[chilly granite]

@maiden trench hi when is mgl rework coming

also how many people are on the balance team? -1, chat gpt, or 0?

[olive pier]

Top that with a fast rocket speed so players can't just dodge most shots even from close

[kindred gorge]

so you get movement in exchange for the insane damage heavy needs to push teams

[chilly granite]

that's just rpg, 190 self damage hahaha

[olive pier]

Ye but rpg doesn't have movement

[chilly granite]

I'm saying give rpg movement

I don't think you should be able to have a jump rpg and a kill rpg in two slots

[olive pier]

Too versatile for a single slot

[chilly granite]

too versatile for two slots

the versatility is a penalty because it's oppertunity cost

[kindred gorge]

I'd say less self damage cause that opens the door for multi jumps lol, but it should be 4 direct rockets to kill a medium and a long as reload so you cant spawn from nowhere and instantly kill the team

[chilly granite]

the cooldown on rpg is long, if you use it for damage, that's 40s no mobilty

and then inverse is true

rpg is already too versatile lol, making it more verstile is a nerf, not a buff

[olive pier]

Wait. I got it it has a switch mechanisms where it's a single gadget but does 2 things but only one of them before recharge

[chilly granite]

I mean, I don't see the need for a switch mechanism?

shoot it at your feet, you get yeeted

shoot it at enemy feet, they get boomed

[olive pier]

Heavy can decide to load a dmg rpg or a jumper

[kindred gorge]

nah one rocket with multi-utility

you can decide on the fly how to use it but suffer the draw backs either way

[chilly granite]

the opertunity costs exists withot needing an ammo swap mechanism

ammo swap mechanism just makes the controls shit

(couhg cough reloading gadgets at all cough cough)

[olive pier]

U can only decide once and that is when you pull it out after recharge

[kindred gorge]

until they add variable firing types to the game then having an ammo swap weapon will be too complicated

[olive pier]

True true

[chilly granite]

@pallid pilot hi actually on topic, you're an artist right? can u make a nullifier that's a disposable tazer, so ther'es no annyoing ass reload animation?

[kindred gorge]

one of the handhelds with the button tape down and you chuck it at the opponent when you fire, reload animation is pulling out a new one and putting the tape on

[chilly granite]

like, there's no actual logic on what reloads and what doesnt, it's literally "what looks like it has an source of ammunition"

just redesign tazer so it's disposable rather then reloadable, fixed

aren't there disposable rpgs too?

what other annoying ass reload gadgets are there

since the UI team can't be bothered to make the UI show if your gadgets are reloaded or not

just delete the mechanic

we going bakc to 2007. Programmers too lazy? lie to the customer, technonolgy isn't there yet

what game was that

[kindred gorge]

I have no issue with reload gadgets

[olive pier]

Ngl I get the rpg reload as it is kind of as a warning with the loading sound but lockbolt doesn't deserve it

[chilly granite]

it's skill floor for no benefit to skill ceiling

it's opression to new//casual players

there is no UX communication of the reload existing

you just draw it next use and die because you had to reload your gadget

[muted condor]

Do I see more bad takes to hate on?

[chilly granite]

acutally fuck new//casual palyers

[muted condor]

That’s my boy!

[chilly granite]

it's opression to disabled, adhd makes my working memory bad so I can't remeber if I reloaded or not

and there's no ux to communicate it

[kindred gorge]

"lacking experience imposes restrictions on the unexperienced"

[olive pier]

Our lil eggplant is all grown up now

[chilly granite]

no, I just found a more protected group to use as my reasoning

literally nobody in the finals discord cares aobut new palyers, least of all marketing KEKW

[muted condor]

Drag those new players down, insult them, make them pay for trying to play YOUR game!

[olive pier]

And USE the skill ceiling as an excuse to make them quit and uninstall

[chilly granite]

@tiny relic sorry to bother you but I need to win an argument

are the new player retention numbers good or bad; you don't need to be specific

[kindred gorge]

the community could be total and complete assholes to newbies and they'd still play because once they expirience the euphoria of hitting a clip there is no escape

[muted condor]

We don’t need a dev to tell us that

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus does

[mental sable]

add this skin pls
https://youtube.com/shorts/7nU5lE7EeXM?si=lw_dhK5oB5XQGdB
🙏

[muted condor]

It’s pretty obvious how shit player retention is

[chilly granite]

hahahaha

[indigo nexus]

how?

[chilly granite]

I wonder how long it'll take me to get in trouble with embark for @@@ing them all like this lol

[olive pier]

Dw I got this

[chilly granite]

I think they're all so disconnected form the finals that they don't even care

i should try in the arc raiders discord I bet I'll get instant response

[muted condor]

The number of people between the level 10-80 compared to people 90+ and the steady drop in play counts with every new season

[olive pier]

@silent swallow tell Rob to add a snowman as part of a lore about trentila carrots

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus on a vibes based level, the player retention is obviously shit

that said, there is no clear metrics or evidecen we have access to as players

don't bother him, he's do not disturb so he won't get notifications, you need to pick someon who you can annoy

[muted condor]

I don’t have hard evidence but my own observation says it’s bad. I see lots of people under level 20 but almost no one over that unless they are over 90

[chilly granite]

@crimson holly since arc raiders was a massive success is the balance team for the finals now a bastion? or is it still chat gpt?

also, I need to win an argument with @indigo nexus - are you happy with new player retention numbers in the finals?

ohhh, maybe it's a shredder

[muted condor]

There is basically no one sticking around long

[chilly granite]

I've seen a few more 20s/30s recently, but not many

basically 0 4/5/6/7/8/9s

[kindred gorge]

Nah it’s a leaper for sure, because every balance change is designed solely to piss people off

[indigo nexus]

That would evidence poor player onboarding, in terms of player retention that would be a positive sign..? And in any case I doubt you’ve been collecting data on this.

[chilly granite]

*new player retention

was the topic at hand

we were arguing about if any of the arcplayers stuck aroudn

[muted condor]

If there was good player retention there would be people at level 40 and what not but there isn’t. Everyone has ether been here since season 2 or leaves before they even unlock everything

[chilly granite]

can't u unlock everything faster now?

[muted condor]

Everyone that plays is basically a day 1 player now

[kindred gorge]

The onboarding is better than it was in the first seasons

Gradual introduction of mechanics, including the playstyle tokens

[chilly granite]

oh yay, it's no longer unforgivably bad, yippie I'm so happy

[kindred gorge]

“Here’s a gun and a grappling hook, go do a crime”

And you know what that’s all I needed

[olive pier]

And a pyro nade

[muted condor]

“Go get curb stomped by the dash user”*

[chilly granite]

the lack of explainatino of how to deal with dash or invis was why I stopped playing

[muted condor]

That’s the new user experience

[chilly granite]

I was a grapple player in s1 and grapple was really really bad in s1

[olive pier]

This.

[kindred gorge]

Yeah I went negative and lost every game for the first like 3 or 4 months and then it all just came together eventually

[olive pier]

Btw what's the cool down on grapple it's been a year since I've used it

[muted condor]

Every player that hasn’t been her for two years reading every patch note with full knowledge of every weapon tech

[chilly granite]

8 hasn't changes since liks 3

[olive pier]

Interesting

[chilly granite]

I just quit, like a normal person would, because getting curb stomped every game is not fun

and that's ignoring that 3v3v3v3 means that you only win 1/4 games (bankit)

1/3 quick cash

1/8 cashout

and cashout was 1/12 at the start right?

[kindred gorge]

that probably why I stuck to the 5v5 modes so much then

[chilly granite]

powershift?

[olive pier]

Ngl yeah my gaming routine is basically this: Play the finals> get curbed until ur tired> find a game that is 10$ or less> Play it and platinum it> go back to playing the finals cuz u got no money to buy another game

[kindred gorge]

yeah that was kinda it wasnt it

cause terminal was competitive at the time, and tdm is a recent edition

[chilly granite]

terminal was s2 additon

i literally neveer played it

[olive pier]

It was fun.

[muted condor]

That almost killed the game and we still haven’t recovered player numbers from it

[chilly granite]

terminal looks like even shitter rainbow 6 seige

@crimson holly I'd take a ban over bieng flat ignored by everyone and everything

[muted condor]

Please ban this child of darkness 🙏

[chilly granite]

hahahaha

[olive pier]

Terminal lights in a nutshell

[chilly granite]

they haven't got the cajones to ban the bow wielding eggplant

that's litearly just lights bro

[muted condor]

Damn him and his children back to the void that birthed them

[chilly granite]

the really mindblwoing thing is how good embarks technical people are

like, they fix a bug in 1 day

they had perf issues at the start of s9 and fixed them in 1 week

for any other game dev, that's insanely fast

and then, the balance team, is just fuckin afk?

[muted condor]

What balance team?

It’s one intern in a broom closet and a 8 year old lap top

[chilly granite]

oh am I the only one who has constant audio bugs?

[muted condor]

I haven’t noticed any

[chilly granite]

they've plugged a bastion's ai into a laptop

it thinks heavies are bastions, mediums are hornets because they're always flying on jump pads, and then it sees the lights and recognizes them as human and shoots them

[chilly granite]

I got repeating audio

I got gun audio going haywire when people die

I got sounds not making noise/cutting out randomly

also, the balancing is just ass? I can't hear anything ever, even when it's working right

I have 4 different headphones too, it's crap on all of them

[unkempt moss]

Bow-kun just going nuts in here on the devs.

[chilly granite]

eventually they'll have to cave or ban me

[muted condor]

I killed him the spear last night

[muted condor]

Or they will do what they already do with their game. Ignore it

[unkempt moss]

They're going to respond by giving wepsNgadg a one hour cooldown

[chilly granite]

hahahhaha

[placid slate]

TA didn't almost kill the game, embark removing cashout from ranked did

[chilly granite]

this is probably truer than ta almost killed game

[placid slate]

It could've been so much worse, like solo bank it ranked

[chilly granite]

bahhaha

[placid slate]

Or ranked power shift

[chilly granite]

ranked powershift unironically probably would've been signficiantly better for the health of the game thank ranked ta

[kindred gorge]

Ranked point break

[placid slate]

It's fucking powershift it's not built for people thinking

[placid slate]

Hell on earth

[chilly granite]

isn't the ranked mode of tf2 basically powershift?

[placid slate]

No? It's not like tf2 has a good ranked mode either

[kindred gorge]

Yes except the maps are actually designed for it

[chilly granite]

hahah

[kindred gorge]

Instead of turning maps built for cashout into sniper paradises

[chilly granite]

I mena, the maps in finals aren't designed for cashout either

yes that is a hot take

[kindred gorge]

Seoul feels like it fits the game mode well

[chilly granite]

but if the maps were properly designed for cashout, they wouldn't need ot keep reworking spawn logic

[placid slate]

The maps work better for TA than TDM ngl

[muted condor]

Kill him now

No funny gif or threats of violence just end it asp

[chilly granite]

I feel like the maps are too big to be well designed

[muted condor]

Embark strike this man down I beg you

[placid slate]

Not true, map size doesn't matter, its how the players and the game interact with the map

[muted condor]

I have never once thought “Man if only the maps were smaller so I could get third parties even more.”

[placid slate]

It's not even that, playing highguard out of all things made me realise that small maps aren't necessary for small teamcounts

It all depends on how the game is designed around the playspace

[muted condor]

The maps aren’t even big

Map design is one of the good parts of the game

[placid slate]

I know, I still think mfs who say "map too big for teams of x" have a very shallow argument because they try to quantify how a map should play off of square km

When it's much deeper than that

[muted condor]

Out of all bow users takes I think that’s the worst if I’m being real

The maps are great for cashout

[placid slate]

Anything is better than tdm

Map wise

[indigo nexus]

Are you referring to new player retention specifically?

[muted condor]

Yeah

[indigo nexus]

So an intuitive high ratio of new/older players to moderately experienced players is your reasoning for that

So then I’d need to know if you mean, in comparison for other games, or within this game’s lifecycle

[muted condor]

The complete none existence of mid level players is my reasoning

[indigo nexus]

I doubt that’s quite how it is, but I don’t pay attention to player levels :p

[muted condor]

And the fact that the game is just losing players consistently every season and with each update I only see level 90+ more and more

Most the mid level plays I do see are probably smerfs anyways

[indigo nexus]

Very much not the case, we only had a dip around the arc raiders launch. Aside from that it’s been slowly moving upward within the last ~9 months or so

The question for the current state of affairs is, how many of these players are new, how many are new from arc raiders, and how many are returning players who got bored of arc raiders

Which I cannot answer in the slightest

[muted condor]

Yeah… moving up

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, that’s the arc raiders dip.

[muted condor]

It’s literally going down still

[indigo nexus]

Before that it was on an upward trend, and it’s been upward since

[muted condor]

It went down all of season 8 and is still going down

[indigo nexus]

Incorrect, last month has been an increase

[muted condor]

Every season drops players from the last one by a lot

[indigo nexus]

Every season except S9 has declining player counts mid-season. This isn’t evidence of a broader trend

[muted condor]

Season 9 level out for the first half that’s not a climb

[indigo nexus]

Untrue, or we’d have less players than S3 could maintain

[indigo nexus]

Statistically it is, if you sign in you can see the per-month comparison

Not a big one, but it’s the only closest-to-middle-of-a-season period ever which showed a gain

[muted condor]

Sean 3 is a outlier because of them almost killing the game

The game is dying currently and it’s not a subjective take. The only times the player numbers are decent are on season drops then it drops lower than before a few weeks later

It was staying level 5-8 and now has continued to drop

[indigo nexus]

This would occur regardless of how well the game was doing.

[muted condor]

Of the game was doing good it wouldn’t lose almost half its players after a single season

GMT fucked the game

[indigo nexus]

What's this based on? The S8 - S9 reduction is nowhere close to half across the season. The closest it gets is on the season drops themselves, but that's still only 65%

[muted condor]

The game was starting to gain traction again after the S3 shit show then S8 set it back where it was before and it’s on a downward slope

[muted condor]

1/3 drop not half mb

[indigo nexus]

S8 seemed fine until the arc raiders drop

[muted condor]

Oh yeah the season where they said “fuck the players we need to keep the pros happy” and dropped 10k players was fine

[indigo nexus]

You seem to make a habit of putting as much of a skew on what you say as you can, it's a bit annoying.

The season had better average player counts than the last many seasons until the AR drop

(best since season 2 for the month of the season drop, though I haven't controlled that for time of drop within the month.)

[muted condor]

If a completely different genre of game steal 1/3 of your players that’s not a good reason to be losing that many people

[indigo nexus]

It's their own game, so it doesn't make much sense to fault them for it. THE FINALS community was primed to play it because they were the main group of people who knew about it, initially

[muted condor]

If it was a similar game it would make since but they aren’t comparable at all

They would have also come back for season 9 but they didn’t

[indigo nexus]

It makes it a bit less comparable, but it would be crazy to ignore the impact of them being made by the same studio. A lot of the same people play them - both of us for example are in both servers

[indigo nexus]

I could guess that that may be why player counts are recovering..?

Obviously there's no moment where everyone drops arc raiders and goes to play something else, its numbers are still exceptional

[muted condor]

They aren’t recovering

They are still dropping

[muted condor]

There was a small climb for the mid season and that’s it

(If you could call it a patch more like a single stitch)

[indigo nexus]

Why do you believe this?

[bitter geyser]

Numbers could be better, but game is definitely bringing some players in

Hopefully it continues for next few months, if the finals can hit a consistent 30k playercount on steam, the matchmaking will also significantly improve

I also thought we were bleeding players till i looked at the charts

[muted condor]

They would have to actually put effort in to do that

God forbid they actually balance something

[bitter geyser]

I dont really know what theyve been doing lately tbh as well, but whatever the game is for the most part playable

[indigo nexus]

would be nice if they tried more balance changes, but they don't get paid to do nothing. If they're not doing that it's because whoever might be working on it is doing something else

[bitter geyser]

Only thing that comes to mind is smooth destruction, but balancing shouldnt be halted by an entirely different system

[indigo nexus]

They were hiring to expand all their teams recently, so perhaps a lot of work is going into onboarding at the moment

[muted condor]

They are making another 15 recolors and getting ready for the GMT with a new set of pro packs to pay off the toxic streamers

[bitter geyser]

Theres only like 2 or 3 toxic streamers lmao

[indigo nexus]

I don't think they have a team dedicated to the balance, I think it's mostly one guy who manages it with others involved in QA, and we don't know what else he does

[bitter geyser]

Strange, I wonder how hard it is to test balance in 3 week intervals

[muted condor]

More like 2-3 half decent ones