💣┇weapons-gadgets

[chilly granite]

I haven't been below like 14000 rs, but behaviour doesn't change beetween that and 24000 rs

the only thing that changes is skilllevel of aim for the most part

strategy is starts at high gold low plat imho

my strategy is like, potato level by gookings standards, I'm sure, but it's still about 10x more strategy than the most strategic teammates I've had

[unkempt moss]

Hey, little fella.

Ive been in silver and its glorious. I will reach bronze some day.

[chilly granite]

gooking acts like he's roleplaying a heavy all the time

he looks like a heavy in my heart

[unkempt moss]

I am heavy. No cap

[compact tundra]

I think these balance patches have finally broke my disillusion with this game. I don't think a single Dev with any influence over the changes that actually happens in this game, play the finals. They keep trying to fix the meta but they over and over again keep buffing what's in or adjacent to the current meta.

I really wanna emphasize this blurb by them in the 9.7 patch

notes under the F-car
"Dev Note: We’ve seen both ‘poke’ (long ranged, high damage) and ‘brawl’ (short ranged, high damage) weapons increasingly becoming the top weapons in the meta over the last season or so, and this was never really intentional. It’s left a lot of automatic weapons struggling performance wise by comparison, so we’re making various small nudges to a range of automatic weapons in 9.7 to help them out. This FCAR change, a small buff in overall DPS for the weapon, is one of those."

That's a wonderful sentiment, so why in this balance patch did we buff

• the F-car, a long range poke adjacent auto that was already fucking viable because of its long range and ability TO POKE BETTER THAN THE FAMAS
• the M60, which is a fucking hybrid mid ranged and brawl weapon
• the P90, LITERALLY THE DEFINITION OF A BRAWL WEAPON
• the XP, a mid ranged brawl style weapon that was ALREADY FUCKIGN VIABLE FOR THE SECOND TIME
• AND THE FUCKING PIKE, A GOD DAMN POKE WEAPON, IT IS LITERALLY ONE OF 3 POKE WEAPONS ON MEDIUM ALONG SIDE THE REPEATER AND THE REVOLVER

I don't know if they even understand how this game is played. This balance change is fucking baffling and the more I look at it the more baffled I get

[muted condor]

I’m convinced they have two interns keeping the game running with a budget of $6

And one of the interns is doing nothing but pr

[compact tundra]

This patch actually has convinced me that if we don't get a new dev team, I think this game is going to sunset in like 3 seasons. I don't get it, what are they even doing at the office, it looks like they're only making skins

[muted condor]

I was already doubting them before the patch but now I have zero faith the game will ever improve

[compact tundra]

Like I feel that patch was perfectly put together to kill any hope of this game changing. There's barely any changes, the ones we got are genuinely as minimal as they could be besides glitch and Dome, and even then I don't think they're that impactful. And their own dev notes contradict the patches they're making. They say they want to buff things that aren't poke and brawl, and then they both poke and brawl weapons cuz I don't think they understand that poke and brawl is more than just the SA and the repeater

[muted condor]

Shit server since launch, weapons left as throw picks for over half the games life time, an entire season ignoring the game and player base, and the most lack luster dog shit patches after said season after claiming they have big things coming. They have done nothing but lied and failed to fallow through on every promise since the game dropped

[compact tundra]

Honestly, I agree at this point. Whoever decides what patches get green light doesn't play the game, doesn't even understand what the terminology like "poke" and "brawl" mean, and they don't understand why things are powerful or are picked.

[muted condor]

This company has survived off next level PR and the rest of the competitive gaming scene being somehow worse than them

[muted condor]

The dome change will not change pick rates at all and I’m pretty sure the glitch grenade buff was just a revert of the last nerf it got

[compact tundra]

The glitch buff was a revert. And dome will always be a high pick because the concept alone is worth picking. They could nerf it to 100hp and that's still a gadget that gives you a free 100hp just for using it. It will always be picked

[muted condor]

It just pisses me off so much because of how fun the game is but I can’t stand playing it anymore with how it’s being ran into the ground

[sleek light]

why was the p90 and fcar buffed

[compact tundra]

I'm still going to hop on with friends but I don't know man I don't think this game is going to last much longer if they don't shake up who decides what gets balanced. As of right now I'm having fun collecting fish and stardew valley and that's probably what I'm going to keep doing

[muted condor]

I play solo so my drive to just play for fun is even lower

[compact tundra]

Because they have about as much understanding of this game as a fresh install

[sleek light]

the fcar has been the meta weapon since this game came out for mediums

[muted condor]

It’s been good but I wouldn’t call it meta

[unkempt moss]

I know its fun to make fun of the people that come in here to make wild suggestions, or as it was put to me, they want a completely different game. At this point I dont even know if it could hurt to try some dumb shit.

I think Unjust is right in that this line of development doesnt have a future. I think 3 seasons is a bit soon, but the sentiment is correct.

[compact tundra]

Brother being 100% honest. The game would be better in your hands than there's, cause at least the person making the changes actually plays the game

[muted condor]

Watching this game reminds me of watching R6 fall off

[muted condor]

I was hating on the idea of a full over haul of the gadgets and stuff but honestly starting from scratch might be the move

[unkempt moss]

I suggest some wild shit but it comes from a place of absolute love for the game. I do vet the things I say in here at least some because I want to keep playing this game.

[muted condor]

I just finished three ranked matches where the majority of team are MHH
Repeater, defib, goo grenade
Mesh, dome, rpg
Mesh, dome, rpg

It’s so fucking boring dude

[unkempt moss]

This is why I think using WT as an experimental branch is the way to do it. The problem is i truly think it would kill ranked.

[muted condor]

If the fun bullshit game mode that you just do fun ideas with kills your ranked community then it’s shit

[unkempt moss]

I think everyone deep down knows this game was never meant to be serious. Everyone fell in love with the game before it got serious, when it was the wild west.

[muted condor]

Steam charts aren’t everything but this still tells you exactly what’s happening

We’re almost down to the lowest point of last season and it’s only half way through 9

[unkempt moss]

I used to look forward to patches because I liked seeing what the insane shit I was going to have to deal with. Now I look forward to the patches because I get to talk in the discord. There's a problem when the discord is more fun than ranked

[muted condor]

Real

[unkempt moss]

Ive been watching steam charts drop slowly season after season. Also, speaking to something Unjust said. I never realized how much Apex has changed from when I played it at launch. Its insane to think a board room controlled company is allowed to make sweeping changes like that and the finals is buffing pike by 1 dmg.

I had joked the other day about being free from this game on Thursday. But I legitimately had zero desire to log on and play today.

How they took a game that plays like the cinematic trailers of other games and made it boring is beyond me.

[muted condor]

I played a few ranked matches where and hoped over to dark tide

[unkempt moss]

What's the dark side? Doom posting?

[serene glade]

Plug posting

🔌

[unkempt moss]

Release me Nama

Even Bow-kun isn't monologuing tonight. It's joever

[muted condor]

The 40K version of 4 idiots fighting waves of enemies

[unkempt moss]

Oh you literally meant dark tide. I thought it was a typo

[signal token]

🤣

[unkempt moss]

Was it you I was talking to about table tops? Youre playing in the split campaign.

[muted condor]

Yeah

[unkempt moss]

Does your DM do dungeon crawls ever?

[muted condor]

Not really

He did say he planning on have a big dungeon in the near future but he’s not sure how it’s going to be played out yet

[unkempt moss]

Damn.

[shadow kestrel]

will finals die of a broken heart?

[unkempt moss]

Broken spirit more likely.

[shadow kestrel]

😔 ok

[unkempt moss]

Sorry bud

[shadow kestrel]

I'll enjoy the remaining time I can have with it

[unkempt moss]

Are you new?

[shadow kestrel]

No, I've been playing for 1 year already

[analog pewter]

Finals ain't gonna die you drama queens

Also if you're bored of the finals that's straight up a you problem. Regain your mirth and whimsy

[shadow kestrel]

Alright then, time for jolly

[muted condor]

“Just have fun fighting the same stacks of the same load outs bro”

[stoic garden]

80% of the heavies i find in ranked use shak50 lol

[alpine sphinx]

Justice for melee weapons 🙏 please

[spring spear]

that is every ranked match i play unless i get unlucky enough to get double lights in which case every team is mhh except mine which ends up being LLH

[stoic garden]

I'm plugging my cashboxes and shit

[broken mulch]

plugging it rn

[muted condor]

I still think they should permanently add different weapons giving you more cash for kills, more over the top in round events, and focus on making the game more like a game show again. I feel like all of those things could help people actually be willing to play a variety of loadouts

[undone quarry]

more cash for kills = more light sniper

[muted condor]

Good

[spring spear]

well that is what world tour is meant to be and we used to have a different wt modifier every week but who knows what theyre doing with the more casual side of the game at this point

[muted condor]

What casual side? Didn’t you hear we’re esports now and that’s integral to the game

[stoic garden]

adding 20 more esports bundles of teams you didnt even know existed!

[spring spear]

thats what i mean, even the esports players are telling them to focus more on the less competitive side of the game, idk what embark is doing

[chilly granite]

Brother there was nothing to monologue about

I went to sleep

Final round not having kill/wipe gold is just dumb too

Like, make the win threshold 60k, and add kill wipe gold

Instantly final round is more interesting

Using casual modes as a test branch for ranked is a good take though

[muted condor]

Ranked having no game events always goes directly against everything this game is supposed to be

[indigo nexus]

I don't think it does much but slightly weaken the theming.

If people don't want niche cases of bad luck causing them to lose a match in exchange, I'm fine with that

[fluid arch]

Because medium pro scene and over all playfields had only one option to play to really be dominant as medium and that is repeater... CB have been out performing everything...

P90 = was buffed due to really bad range gameplay in current poke meta...
FCAR = have been buffed and also nerfed - buffed so the 250hp dome shield would be broken faster - light is still same TTK and heavy as well.. only medium ttk is lower/faster.

Pretty much that is the explenation

[muted condor]

That’s what I call competitive man child mentality

[chilly granite]

mmy hot take is to make it so each team can choose a gameshow event, which triggers when they get a teamwipe

that way you're in control of the event, and it's a reward for a teamwipe

this also incentivises teams to coin/resapawn instead of trying to teamwipe

[indigo nexus]

curious, but it's hard to think under what circumstances I would ever want to pre-set any specific event to start

[chilly granite]

ufo after a dunk

headshot event is powerful if your team favours 2x mult weapons

headshot event would directly buff light in this meta

[indigo nexus]

if I had been teamwiped then a minute chance that an enemy steal would be stopped as a result seems... I don't know, not the nicest gameplay

headshot event? did I miss some world tour thing?

[chilly granite]

they got rid of it ages ago but it was my favourite event when i started playing

maybe it was open beta and they remove dit?/

[fossil verge]

what gadgets should i be running with model

[indigo nexus]

defib jump pad goo nade, maybe?

[chilly granite]

i can't find it on wiki

it might have been bank it exclusive event?

[muted condor]

I don’t really remember a head shot event

[chilly granite]

I didn't play in s6 so I'm not getting confused over headhunter

idk lol

I'm pretty sure there was a headshot event, like there used to be in some community counterstrike servers
bodyshots don't count

my memory is that they removed it really fast because people complained lol

[indigo nexus]

That never entered my awareness

[chilly granite]

these are the listed events on wiki, and none of them have names that would make me think it's headshot only except headhunter, and headhunter was s6/tdm patch, which I didn't play

I played in s5 and s7 only

[indigo bison]

You are right I remember this

[chilly granite]

ok cool I was really panicing I was hallucinating it

I read through all the old patchnotes a month or two ago, and I remeber reading that they removed it in there too

[indigo bison]

It really didn't last long, but I remember having to do headshots exclusively to kill people

[chilly granite]

but I can't find it now

[muted condor]

Yeah that sounds like shit for half the weapons to actually get any kills with

[indigo nexus]

it might be such that continuing to talk about this will lead to a collective delusion

[indigo bison]

I see what you are saying lol, but I do remember it, he ain't crazy

[indigo nexus]

so how did that work for all the weapons which couldn't headshot

[chilly granite]

head damage applied

they don't have a headshot multipleer but they do apply damage to face

[indigo nexus]

So the MGL was virtually incapable of killing a player? And weapons without a headshot multiplier were weak to a disproportionate degree?

[chilly granite]

that's probaly why they removed it after like a week

I think that explosive damage still applied but I'm not certain

but double barreled was for sure trash

[muted condor]

I think you might be tripping on it being headshot damage only unless it was in season 3 because i didn’t play then

[indigo nexus]

melees would be awkward as most "headshots" would hit a different part of the body

[chilly granite]

I'm fairly suspicoius it was bankit exclusive

[indigo bison]

Probably season 3, the only memory I have of it was playing a match on Vegas with XP-54 to hit headshots

[chilly granite]

did season3 have quickplay medals?

[muted condor]

I think this might be a shared delusion or it was horrific that I blocked it out of my memory

[indigo nexus]

no

[chilly granite]

then I think it may have been s3

[unkempt moss]

Ive been playing since beta and I dont have any memory of this.

[kindred gorge]

Nah I thought head hunter was the event where they put a bounty on one member of each team

[unkempt moss]

This does give me an idea though. They should make a sniper quarantine mode, lights and snipers only.

[kindred gorge]

Nah you could probably allow pike as well

[unkempt moss]

It was. Highest kills on your team got a bounty or something

[kindred gorge]

it kinda sucks there's only one true sniper in the game

[muted condor]

Wrong there are two

[kindred gorge]

do not say repeater

[muted condor]

BFR exists

[kindred gorge]

mm to some degree, damage falloff is pretty noticable

[muted condor]

That shit is a sniper on heavy with a revolver skin to gaslight the community into thinking it isn’t

[chilly granite]

that is correct, my point is that I didn't play season 6, so I couldn't have eben confused by the name of it

it can't be misunderstanding "headhunter" as headshot only when it's actaully a bounty buff

[muted condor]

There might have been a double headshot damage event but I’m not sure

[chilly granite]

better sniper

[kindred gorge]

not that I recall. You have to consider as well that a lot of weapons dont do headshots so having a random event that can buff opponents but not you is a little jank

[chilly granite]

i mean, that's why they removed it

[indigo nexus]

if it existed

[kindred gorge]

which I dont think it did

[chilly granite]

I think it might've been bankit exclusive

[kindred gorge]

schrodingers headshots

[chilly granite]

I was a bankit main, I almost never played cashout

and bankit favoured firearms anyway

[stoic garden]

no

[indigo bison]

In update 3.0 it says disabled the Deathmatch game show event

[muted condor]

They are trying to trick me into the shared delusion

[indigo bison]

I can't send the image, but its there and I am pretty sure that is it

[indigo bison]

Ok I abandon

But we will one day prove the truth

[kindred gorge]

could someone check if the fcar buff actually did provide a dps increase? see a lot of people complaining otherwise but I know better than to listen to anything I see in feedback

[chilly granite]

@kindred gorge

[kindred gorge]

tragic

[chilly granite]

1.3 damage per second, so wow

[kindred gorge]

wait is that after and before or before and after

[chilly granite]

after/before

+1.3 dps

the meaningful impact of the change is that you now can do an extra 25 damage per magazine

[kindred gorge]

that's pretty good though fcar is more for contesting heavies so being about to miss an extra bullet could make plenty of difference

[chilly granite]

about that

you can't miss an extra bullet except on medium hahahaha

to be fair, that's bodyshot only; there's a few more breakpoints where you can miss an extra bullet

so like 1hs/6 bodyshots vs 1hs/5bodyshots

these are hypothetical, not real

"there should be" I havne't done a spreadsheet

[kindred gorge]

Time to resort to playtesting then

Well, not right now but eventually

On a personal level I kinda prefer slower RoF harder hitting weapons so I’ll try to get some input from other medium mains too

[chilly granite]

so no gain to ammo efficency against a fullhp light

+1 bullet against medium for multiple breakpoints

+1 bullet against heavy for multiple breakpoints

@kindred gorge

[kindred gorge]

Hey. It’s a buff

I’ll take what I can get, one toe wiggle closer to the auto meta

[chilly granite]

if you hit one headshot a medium and 0 on a heavy, it's literally 0 impact

so about 2/3rds of the time vs heavy and medium, you need 1 less bullet , so on average .66 extra bullet per mag per h/m

or: 1 in 3 breakpoints are the same vs h/m

[kindred gorge]

the column/row labeling is a little hard to understand

[serene glade]

no way we are justifying and calling the fcar change a buff. embark just slaps ups in the face constantly and then i gotta see people go "well actually the minimal changes is good because"

[kindred gorge]

I am not praising embark I'm taking what I can get

[serene glade]

auto meta is just as boring, its all hitscan weapons. god this game is such a failure its crazy

[kindred gorge]

go play something else then, lord forbid people try to get enjoyment out of something

[serene glade]

enjoy my nuts across your face

i need more esports bundles, and goyfeed in my goytrough

[chilly granite]

wait last one wrong

[kindred gorge]

yeah I thought all 5s was weird lol

[chilly granite]

hahhah

I moved the formula but it didn't drag proplery

so it kept the stk for light

[muted condor]

Waiter waiter! More reskins please!

[serene glade]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-slamming-card-on-table-gif-21126320

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/slop-rabid-gif-26005071

[compact tundra]

Play what exactly, this is literally the only game I know that allows weird niche weapons to exist, and if they created them then they should have a place to thrive. If you want an auto meta then literally go play any other shooter and you'll see it, ideally this game should have a versatile meta that has melees, autos, poke, brawl, ttk focused, DPS focused, GL's, and combo weapons to shine and show off the sheer amount of unique weapons in this game

[muted condor]

Go play Highguard XD

[unkempt moss]

You know which game... the other tournament heist game with fully destructible environments, mixing melee weapons with firearms and launchers, presented in a gameshow aesthetic.

THE QUALIFIERS

[muted condor]

The finals could be doing worse

[chilly granite]

now I need to make a three dimensonal version showing falloff

I'm not gonna do taht right now I wanna play game

God I love excel

[compact tundra]

@tight kelp

No genius, I just blew in from cod obviously

[muted condor]

This goof actually plays the game? Imagine not just showing up to grift on it and never play

[tight kelp]

clearly

[chilly granite]

625 in game and 985 in client
the gap is all excel spreadsheeting

[chilly granite]

tbh I think it's honestly better to balance around a fun and enjoyable experience for niche weapons first and foremost, and then work on keeping the guns as an option

since the niche weapons are what makes finals finals

part of the problem with niche weapons is that they can feel hard to counterplay, but also unrewarding to use

I feel like embark dev team is just bad at CQB, so all the cqb weapons have way worse numbers than long range weapons when they should be better

idk man it just doesn't really make senes?

the sword has same damage as repaeter and a slower firerate iirc

[muted condor]

The amount of people that say the niche weapons shouldn’t be viable

[chilly granite]

the sledge's numbers are geniunely insulting

it has 2 m range, it deserves to oneshot light on primary

DB's numbers are pretty sad too, it matches ttk on repeater

like, I don't know which is faster becuase of measurement error

if a repeater has allowed a light to get that close, they should die immediately

the matter can't kill a repeater faster than themm

Quickmelee animation is 100ms, and cyclic on the matter is .71, so twoshot matter+qm is .81, repeeater .75ish

[muted condor]

The DB sucks because it just stomps low level players so they don’t buff it for fear of making it worse sadly

[chilly granite]

it should not be possible for a medium, whos weapons all have superior range to ligths, to kill a light, who is in optimal range for CQB weapons

[tight kelp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/714245295659024397/1251977229378781275/Card.gif

[chilly granite]

light is extremely fragile to explosive and enviromental damage too

chip damage is a much more significiant porition of a light's hp pool, therefore much more impactful against ttk, than a mediu

[chilly granite]

but that's still true of the current db. The system right now makes it so it's opressive agaisnt weak players AND useless against good ones

a weak player won't be able to achieve the low ttks you need, to kill a db, with a medium or heavy, let alone a light

[tight kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/speak-gif-9578947274896178319

[chilly granite]

if you have an opinon, speak it

shutting down discussion becuase you're not literate enough to speak your mind is cringe

also ranked heavy main doesn't want light buffed colour me shocked

[muted condor]

Light just needs better gadget selection imo

[chilly granite]

am I the only one who thinks lights' gadgets are some of the strongest in the game?

[hardy dust]

Light gadgets are fine

[muted condor]

I said that wrong

[hardy dust]

More variety?

[muted condor]

Specs not gadgets mb

[chilly granite]

ah

[hardy dust]

Yeah that makes sense

[chilly granite]

lights specs are both too good and too bad

buffing grapple or invis could totally break the game and dash is opressive to bad players on pc

[muted condor]

I’m sick of fighting dash and stomping every light that tries to play the other options

[chilly granite]

aim assist helps way too mcuh against dash

[muted condor]

I feel bad watching someone try to play invis and just destroying them

[chilly granite]

which biases the stats for embark

[kindred gorge]

Ttk feels about the same. Biggest thing I’m noticing is that fcar has inadvertently become slightly more effective at range due to less recoil

[chilly granite]

I think nerfing dash, and giving light 180hp, fixes light

[kindred gorge]

It’s great for finishing kills too but that’s nothing too new

[chilly granite]

recoil shape/size is the same as far as we of wepsngadgs could tell, but you have a little more time between each recoil impulse to aim the next shotj

[primal lark]

Medium needs healing gadgets n stuff. I think embark should add a “healing beam” to the game

[chilly granite]

ttks you can see in my latest spreadsheet, they trade places based on number of headshots, realistically eequivalent

[chilly granite]

lol

[chilly granite]

but yeha, light's weapons are balanced around dash being available to bloom light's ttk pretty mcuh

formerly, around invis being available to bloom light's ttk by element of surprise

grapple has the issue of requiring skill to bloom lights ttk via off angles and extremly good positioning, which makes it non-viable unless you're skillgapping the opponents

invis has the issue of not being functional against people with headphones andthe right gfx settings, which makes it non-viable above a certain level of rs

Dash needs a long internal cooldown, so that dashspam isn't viable to bloom ttk exceessively

this would allow improving light hp, or dps, so that light can actually win a fight with grapple or invis

I don''t think buffing invis or grapple is a good move becuase both could be extremely gamebreaking

invis could kill the playerbase way worse than currently lol

at the least, if they buff them, they need to add in better counterplay

[muted condor]

My thought for dash was making it so if you use all three dashes it puts it into an extra long cooldown so if you want to use all three super fast you can but it will leave you with no movement for longer and incentivize people to only use one or two

[chilly granite]

that was my initial thought but that still excesively punishes new players

so, if you have a laggy display, or are new and respond slower, then dash is effectively iframes because tehe movement impulse is so fast (without aim assist)

the player is complety dislocated from start position in 20ms or so

pros in TGM had a reaction->aim time of around 350ms at the lowend, and around 600ms at the high end/most difficult aiming scenarios

multiply that by 3, and you have 1s of invincibility

that's insane, and if they have a laggy monitor, and aren't good at aiming, that time to aim could be 500ms each dash, which is 1.5s

if instead dash is an internal cooldown (dash->dash cooldown) of 1s, then there's a window where the light can't use dash and is vvulnerable after every dash

so dash is a much more consistenty amount of HP pool fo alight

rotational aim assist works on dash for some ungodly reason, so the difference in ttk per dash is more like 300-600

[cursive owl]

This game isn't super new player friendly anyways

[chilly granite]

are you going to aruge that ins't a problem??

[cursive owl]

I don't think that's a good enough reason to not have using all charges incurs a bigger cooldown

[chilly granite]

I'm not aruging for using all charges incurring a bigger cooldown

that should happen anywy becuase dash cooldown is just too low in general

I'm arguing that there should be a longer internal cooldown between each dash use

[cursive owl]

I see that but i feel like that also kinda kneecaps it with the ttks in this game

[alpine sphinx]

https://giphy.com/gifs/itsburger010-M5OwSmmCCJO6CW96kh

[chilly granite]

the ttks are a problem

light is balanced around dash spam

dash nerfed, all of a sudden, they have to buff light ttks, grapple, invis and dsah are all useable

[alpine sphinx]

oops embed fail

[cursive owl]

I would rather have dash be dominant than invis be more widely used ngl

[alpine sphinx]

light is fine even without dash, because you can regenerate health at double the speed the enemy can, if anything they should nerf healing overall to make hit and run more effective

[cursive owl]

I don't think active camo in any game is ever fun

[cursive owl]

That would just make the game less fun

[chilly granite]

invis can be nerfed, but grapple has never been relevent

[alpine sphinx]

how would it make the game less fun to not have enemies be instantly full health again?

[chilly granite]

I've already mentioned this to embark, and specifically said that since light can more easily break line of sight, their regen timer should be equal or longer than larger classes

[cursive owl]

Increasing the amount of time people have to disengage to be able to fight again is usually never fun

[chilly granite]

lights breaking line of sight and regenening is especially opresive to new players, who can fight a skilled light for them to never die, where they would eventually wear down a heavy

You can buff in game healing items, to compensate for the nerf to auto healing

[cursive owl]

Doesn't that just turn people into raid bosses

Isn't that why infuser and heal beam were getting adjusted a while back

[chilly granite]

1. heavy already is, 2) you can add anti-heal too, so that heal in combat is less effective

we have already discussed in this channel extensively that pyronade/fire should get anti-heal

[cursive owl]

That's just a complete healing cut or a reduction

[chilly granite]

details undecided, both could be good

[cursive owl]

Not a bad idea ngl

Then i would have a reason to buy that fire ass pyro nade skin with the sun

[compact tundra]

@native flame

100% I am a bot. I was programmed to sit in this server all day and crash out over balance changes

[native flame]

oh boy, I know.

cause if you play this game at all you'd know that these balance changes did nothing

[compact tundra]

The XP and m60 buff actually did have noticeable effects. And whether or not they did anything is irrelevant to my point, the point was why are they saying one thing, and then doing the exact opposite

Why are we only focusing on weapons that are already viable, and the non-viable weapons they tweaked, like the pike, didn't even have their breakpoints change

[native flame]

I mean you literally complained about the pike buff which did nothing(Fcar buff was actually a TTK nerf for the most part too)

[chilly granite]

ttk nothing, not nerf or buff, except against light

[serene glade]

Dropping nothing but horrible patches for the last year+, then doing less than the bare minimum this entire season, then dropping Esports news. Embark cannot stop winning

[native flame]

why are we only lookin at HS

fcar "buff" literally only increased ttk against bodyshot mediums(faster) and decreased everything else(slower)

[chilly granite]

each of the nummbers is how many heeadshots you hit, therefore, the ttk numbers on the right, show the ttk if you hit 1headshots/kill, or 2headhsots//kill

the top nummber is 0 headshots in a kill

[native flame]

alr lemme take a look again

[compact tundra]

I complained about the hypocrisy of it. The fact that they talk about the poke meta being unintentional, and then buff a poke weapon, and poke adjacent weapon

[unkempt moss]

You guys are on the same side youre just dense af

[chilly granite]

my team was a bunch of kids so I had to be the adult in the room and carry them

[native flame]

literally complained about every buff btw even tho they were good changes

[chilly granite]

nothing they did was a good change, the problem with xp wasn't it's performance, but rather than arn making it redunadant

m60 and pike needed no changes

[unkempt moss]

His whole point is they aren't doing anything alleviate the issues of the game outside of the two gadget changes. They cite a known problem then reinforce it if anything.

[chilly granite]

^^^

making the xp more competative with CQB options makes poke stronger, not weaker

becuase the xp is more pokie than the m11

similarly, improving the m60 dispersion makes it more pokie

and again , p90

they're improving weapon viability in a poke meta, rather than fixing the meta

the fcar change was the only change that wasn't a buff to poke meta

[unkempt moss]

Taking the heavy's laser beam and making it even better close and far was definitely an interesting choice. My contract as a heavy advocate says I'm not allowed to say anything bad about that one.

[chilly granite]

I don't wanna get in toruble for @ing an embark person but holy shit someone needs to actualy talk to players aobut this crap

[unkempt moss]

The community fearing being banned about talking to the devs is kinda telling.

[compact tundra]

Didn't you say they did nothing. So how are they good if they do nothing. If you're referring to the m60 and XP buff then I literally agree with you on one of those, the m60 buff was good

[chilly granite]

guys check my homework - is this nice enoguh:

hi, I don't mean to harrass the wrong person, but I'm not sure who to ask. I think the community deserves an explaination behind the logic to skip nerfing the cb-repeater, when the patch specifically calls out poke meta as an issue, and buffing several weapons in ways that strengthen poke meta.

I chose you as the marketing lead, as I believe that the poke meta direclty makes the game less marketable as it's much less enjoyable to watch as a spectator esport, and it makes the game really unenjoyable for light playres in casual modes (new players) who just get twotapped by proplayers (literally seen stewj do this in my point break, no hate to him as a person) sitting on roof with cb.

[unkempt moss]

I probably wouldn't go after the marketing guy.

[chilly granite]

also instant replay was a mistake if your aim assist is so strong. Controller players look like cheaters and it makes people question fair play, which is terrible for marketing

[chilly granite]

idk who'd be better

player engaugment is somewhat his direct repsonsibility

tbh, actually, he's clearly doing his job, peak players on the finals were great

Hi, mr marketing. You need to tell the balance team to get off their asses and work as hard as you. You got he game played by half a miliion poeple, on launch, but the balance team shit the bed so bad they coulnd't keep them around for a month, and now they're kiling the game even worse

that's just actively hostile hahahaha

how about blaming a medium main for it?

[unkempt moss]

I mean as long as embark sees it I suppose it's a win

[chilly granite]

@tiny relic

hi, I don't mean to harrass the wrong person, but I'm not sure who to ask. I think the community deserves an explaination behind the logic to skip nerfing the cb-repeater, when the patch specifically calls out poke meta as an issue, and buffing several weapons in ways that strengthen poke meta.

I chose you as the marketing lead, as I believe that the poke meta direclty makes the game less marketable as it's much less enjoyable to watch as a spectator esport, and it makes the game really unenjoyable for light playres in casual modes (new players) who just get twotapped by proplayers (literally seen stewj do this in my point break, no hate to him as a person) sitting on roof with cb.

Something is going wrong in the balance team because this patch directly buffs, not nerfs, poke meta. Please can you refer me to someone who we, of weapons and gadgets, can talk to from the balance team, who can explain the decisions made?

alternatively, a blog post would be better than nothing.

But the game is in it's least healthy state right now, and these changes are not helping

[stoic garden]

wants balance changes
pings marketing lead

[chilly granite]

none of the embark devs have "balance" in their tags or description

None want to be associated with the terrrible decisions of the balancing team

[compact tundra]

I don't think we know who the balancing lead is, and it's the marketing team job to interact with players so makes sense

[stoic garden]

that's probably a good thing

[unkempt moss]

No one is going to put themselves in front of thr firing squad like that.

[chilly granite]

hehehehe

[alpine sphinx]

i guess the announcement for the next year of esports means we can forget about ever seeing any melee weapon in a semi competitive state, or generally a ever seeing a new meta :/

[muted condor]

That’s when we find out there is not lead for it and that’s why it’s the way it is

[chilly granite]

anyway, it's not that I want specific balance changes, I want an explaination of the poor balance changes, which would be a form of marketing

[unkempt moss]

We find out it is actually the marketing guy making balance changes.

[muted condor]

They just play bingo to make changes

[unkempt moss]

Im telling you its chatgpt

[stoic garden]

next up they overbuff sh1900 so that people play it and buy the skins

[muted condor]

Not a 0% chance

[alpine sphinx]

the sh has literally no good skins though

[compact tundra]

Sorry for randomly DMing you, just taking precautions

[unkempt moss]

Chatgpt how do we buff pike.
This is a great question, Norcomma. I'd start of by letting the meta settle and then add 1 damage.

[chilly granite]

chat gpt woould be an upgrade

[stoic garden]

like is my new favorite weapon

[alpine sphinx]

😭😭😭 why is this accurate

[compact tundra]

Bro even chatgpt fed up with the devs at this point, they really got no allies

[stoic garden]

why is chatgpt cooking so hard

[chilly granite]

chat gpt actually is smarter than embark blaance team

[compact tundra]

Aight that's it, we need to replace the balance team with chatgpt. It takes no vacation and I UnIronically understand the game better

[chilly granite]

like, akm, lewis are fine in poke meta, ebcause you need to stay peeked to kill; peater and bfr let you peek and hide

lmao

[compact tundra]

I will firmly die on the hill that lewis is peak poke. I believe lewis should be the longest range weapon on heavy, tho I wouldn't buff lewis, I'd nerf titan and D-eagles cause they're kinda absurd for heavy

[alpine sphinx]

They could also add different levels of punchthrough to weapons, so that the obstacle from which you are peaking from becomes more relevant, and you can just spray into the cover if they choose a bad one, tho that brings a lot of problems too, so i could see why they wouldnt want that

[stoic garden]

lewis is so balanced ❤️

[chilly granite]

exactly, the lewis is well balanced as a long ranged option for heavy

[muted condor]

Holy shit

[stoic garden]

lewis feels both fair and satisfying at the same time

[muted condor]

Iv seen enough replace devs with ai already

[chilly granite]

wait, let's see what the ai says about dash

[stoic garden]

because you know, recoil and shit, no peeking, actually putting to use that meaty 350hp instead of hiding like a little light with sniper

[indigo nexus]

LLMs typically seem to have almost zero understanding of video games

[stoic garden]

i will kill you

[muted condor]

I’m actually surprised how well it understands it right now

[indigo nexus]

The only thing it had suggested up to this point was that if you shoot after peeking your damage should be reduced

[unkempt moss]

Sausage GPT and ChatGPT are about to do battle

[stoic garden]

DISABLING INVIS RECHARGE WHILE NOT MOVING 😰

[chilly granite]

that's a bad dsecription, that's equivalent to a dps rather than burst damage weapon (lewis vs bfr)

[muted condor]

Why it kinda cooking

[muted condor]

Its description on why poke is meta is what impressed me

[chilly granite]

gpt understands the fundamental concepts well, even if it doesn't understand the specifics of the game itself

[stoic garden]

might be only because bow guy gave it the premise that it's a problem

[unkempt moss]

Bonus cashout steal speed. GPT wants to turn light in to a rogue. Kinda based.

[stoic garden]

would it understand that by itself?

[chilly granite]

this is like my first time ever prompting a gpt, I'm not a good prompt engineeer, they basically said that at the start of 9.7 patchnotes

[unkempt moss]

Trap disarm and bonus cashout steal. Mmm new passives. Ask it what passives to give heavy.

[indigo nexus]

health regen on dashing is a very funny idea

[serene glade]

its passive is extra calories burned

[unkempt moss]

I wish.

[serene glade]

love the finals, really wish we got some fun

[chilly granite]

this is the correct choice

the options it gave, are bad, but sustain rather than ambush balance for light

[indigo nexus]

Horrible!

[unkempt moss]

Yeah turn the stove off.

[stoic garden]

does bot know healing meta is Already booming and shit should be more punishable

[serene glade]

id take horrible AI dogshit at this point over esports promotion swedish fools

[indigo nexus]

hmm, maybe feeding a ton of text from game feedback into it would give it some more "spontaneous" solutions

[unkempt moss]

Can we get a bot in the discord to check RFI?

[compact tundra]

Ok wait it kinda cooked on the faster Regen near teammates, that's kinda baller, forces lights to play with their team and makes rouge lights stalling your team less effective since they'd have a slower regen rate

[alpine sphinx]

i kinda like the idea that light can mark enemies when using cloak, to make them visible for the team for a few seconds but using invis charge for it, kind of combining cloak and tracking dart (which basically noone uses anyway)

[chilly granite]

the descripition of what's wrong with grapple is perfect

literally fucking perfect

[stoic garden]

i dont think it's a good idea frankly, lights sometimes like to play off angles or at range depending on what they got (was talking to reduced regen from staying away from team)

[chilly granite]

this is all I said and it perfectly identified the problems

[unkempt moss]

Ask it if GooGun is for chads

[compact tundra]

I second this

[serene glade]

chatgpt is a light main now, youre a goochud loser

[chilly granite]

chatgpt has got grapple and winch confused, but it's fundamental issues it idenfitied iwth grapple is perfect

[unkempt moss]

No. This will decide if we hire it for balance.

[alpine sphinx]

🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[chilly granite]

it thinks your talking about titanfall, I thiknk that's titanfall?

[indigo nexus]

yeah, I don't know what that's about. Probably due to the similar acronym

[stoic garden]

can you believe it? chatgpt trying to satisfy its user rather than reasoning with them?

[indigo nexus]

winch claw grapple

[chilly granite]

I mean, it's not good, but it's better than last patch

[unkempt moss]

Winch should have always acted like fat grapple. Let me swing.

[muted condor]

Still better than the current balance team

[chilly granite]

if you grapple a heavier object than the heavy, then itshould act like grapple good take

[unkempt moss]

Why? Because it exists? Adri from marketing isnt moonlighting as the balance team.

[chilly granite]

that way winch misses pull heavy out of position

[serene glade]

the coding actually caused heavy to rip down the church on monaco

[unkempt moss]

Heavier than heavy? Doesnt exist.

[chilly granite]

a house?

[unkempt moss]

No.

[alpine sphinx]

Heavy players balls are heavier than anything in the arena

[indigo nexus]

I wonder how heavy powerscales

[unkempt moss]

Drywall actually made the suggestion to pull heavy to players rather than players to heavy and i think thats good. That way they get pulled out of position instead of just free team firing squad.

[alpine sphinx]

i would love this as a hammer main

[unkempt moss]

Pulls non-players to heavy, pulls heavy to players.

[alpine sphinx]

but i feel like goo gun is still better

[indigo nexus]

I think it would look very weird, it'd feel like a grapple

[unkempt moss]

That way when the light tries to grapple away they just see a heavy flying behind them.

[unkempt moss]

Obv

[alpine sphinx]

hahaha that would be so peak

[unkempt moss]

Does it look weird when they get teleported through a wall now?

[serene glade]

that sounds fun and all, until you boot up a stream of finals esports and see that happen. legit so unserious

[indigo nexus]

Kind of, but that's a niche case which would exist regardless of which direction it went in

[alpine sphinx]

we literally had flying houses this season and it was peak finals

[unkempt moss]

True. Let's nerf dome and winch again.

[unkempt moss]

Breaking LOS would probably have to break the winch.

[stoic garden]

nerf uhhh emitter or something, definitely deserves it

[unkempt moss]

Chat GPT should we nerf emitter?

[chilly granite]

this is agood take

[stoic garden]

bowgpt should we nerf emitter

[serene glade]

get your giggles and sillyness out of the way RIGHT NOW and get ready to sit in the corner chair and watch people with the personality of an acorn play professional esports for HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of dollars

[chilly granite]

that's already true but it's not consistent right now

[indigo nexus]

problematic, because this means you can abuse ping to avoid it

unless you just make it teleport them back, which is okay but probably would feel more janky in general

[unkempt moss]

@RFIbot, what's the current standing?

[unkempt moss]

Fine. Leave it as is.

[compact tundra]

I'm so excited, I love that my game comes with the cu-ck chair bundle

[alpine sphinx]

doesnt it already do that rn? They changed that a couple patches ago

[unkempt moss]

They've tried a couple times i think. But it never works.

[stoic garden]

abusing ping to make my opponent's moves come out later type shit

what

[indigo nexus]

kind of, it just favours the victim a little more than it used to

[indigo nexus]

In a sense yes, you would be able to move further before the winch seemed to hit you, with how it currently works, and that movement would be respected. This is the main issue with the whole winching-through-walls problem.

[unkempt moss]

Tell it that GooGun is too strong and ask it how to fix.

[stoic garden]

tell it that cerb is the best gun in the game rn

[alpine sphinx]

tell it also that melee weapons are too strong and need a nerf

[chilly granite]

OOF gpt is stuck in season 5

[unkempt moss]

Just feed it wepsNgadg meta and let it balance the game

[chilly granite]

HAHAHAHA

[stoic garden]

mesh should just not have been buffed lol

[serene glade]

chatgpt actually notfies the authorities and we get detained and put in straitjackets

[unkempt moss]

Ask it if spear should be able to be thrown.

This will become gospel in wNg

[alpine sphinx]

Unironically this would be bad

[stoic garden]

making hhm miserable.... i like how it speaks

[chilly granite]

it's for sure stuck in season 5

xp54/lh1, when weere they meta?

[unkempt moss]

This is a constant debate in wNg

[chilly granite]

FUCKING PREACH

[serene glade]

id rather something be tested and be determined bad, then doing nothing but adding 1 damage or .03 ads time to things at this point

[chilly granite]

same issues that are doubling the isues of poke meta

I mean, gpt seems to have a hitrate of about 50%

it's better than the balance team at least

[indigo nexus]

I don't think it's suggested anything so far which seems agreeable

[muted condor]

Spit yo shit clanka

[chilly granite]

it's doing a better job of root cause analysis, even if it's resolutions are bad

with good understanding of root cause a human can pretty easily find decent solutions

[muted condor]

“Light will always feel like a highlight-reel class in a spreadsheet meta” 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥

[indigo nexus]

It looks more like it's just creating plausible reasons for something that was said which may or may not be true in the actual game

[alpine sphinx]

this goes hard

[chilly granite]

you can literally see my prompts, I'm giving almost no context

[unkempt moss]

Game should always reward me for big dogging lights. Lights should do 50% damage to heavies walking towards them.

[muted condor]

It’s not the best solutions but at least it admits what the problems are

[indigo nexus]

I'm not saying you are, they're good at working with little context. But that's the issue, it doesn't have much context.

[chilly granite]

When you said something untrue, it identified the wrong game to talk about

[unkempt moss]

Best i can do is 12 weeks of nothing.

[chilly granite]

it has all the shittalking people have done on reddit about the game for the last few years as context

which is why it's stuckin season 5 when lh1, xp and invis were meta

[serene glade]

yeah that seems fair

[chilly granite]

was that season 5?

[muted condor]

At least we now know they aren’t using ai to balance because the balancing would be better if that was the case

[unkempt moss]

At the very least the dev notes would seem like they understand the game

[indigo nexus]

LLMs are pretty terrible at extracting accurate information from online discourse about games in my experience, if there's much disagreement etc they seem to just... pick something someone has said and go with it.

[alpine sphinx]

ngl, dealing with invis is 10x more fun than dealing with dash

[muted condor]

It’s not doing a bad job right now definitely exceeded my expectations

[chilly granite]

massively exceeded mine too, I was expecting it to tell us to buff pike

[alpine sphinx]

there have been many instances where they acknowledge problems, but dont do anything about them, or act despite them knowing there isnt a problem

[muted condor]

I was expecting it to start talking about Highguard XD

[unkempt moss]

Don't worry, we're not replacing you as our LLM. We've spent too much time calibrating you

[alpine sphinx]

like now they acknowledged poke meta, but didnt change the repeater, or when they changed sniper's projectile to shift from hitscan to projectile after 40m, the patch note said that there is no problem in the way it performs, but they're doing it anyways

[indigo nexus]

I am unconvinced that it is any better at identifying problems than it is creating solutions. Most of its accurate claims about problems are very high-level, which would apply to games in general where similar issues existed

[alpine sphinx]

Chatgpt will bring us from HHM to LLM

[chilly granite]

yeah but you know, they aren't fixing the high level problems anywayy

[muted condor]

I wonder if it will make me a damage fall off spreadsheet

[unkempt moss]

I've never had any success with it creating documents

[kindred gorge]

I’m putting in numbers with the buffed m60

[stoic garden]

i really dont see how the buff does anything ngl

the shooting feels the same, placebo ass buff

[opaque wolf]

idek why they buffed m60 again, its recoil was already good; now akm on the other hand…

[kindred gorge]

Killing the spread is huge, I’m landing way more shots than I was before because my bullets don’t fuck off over their shoulder

[serene glade]

Dev Notes : Just trust me bro

[muted condor]

Admits there is a problematic poke meta
Buffs a poke weapon

[kindred gorge]

Can even go toe to toe with a minigun

[indigo nexus]

I do not see reason to think that this actually adds merit to it.

[stoic garden]

i got the habit of aiming no matter the distance on lewis gun cuz hipfire is ass, I'll be doing the same on m60 ngl

[chilly granite]

I don't think anyone seriosuly thinks they should be balaacing with chat gpt, we're just bullying the balance team

[alpine sphinx]

I think the issue is that Embark tries to bring direct competitors to meta weapons up to meta standards, and completely forgets about the weapon types that dont have one of them in the meta

[stoic garden]

i never really had issues with m60 hipfire in particular tho

[indigo nexus]

M60 hipfire at a baseline is alright, though it's very sensitive to jumping and such

[kindred gorge]

Yeah seeing as I’m not really moving regardless it’s better to ads in every gunfight you get in but now it’s range is more than kissing distance cause the bloom isn’t as insane

[indigo nexus]

It didn't have any non-hipfire bloom. Only hipfiring was altered.

[kindred gorge]

I swear it mentioned ads in the patch

[opaque wolf]

m60 doesn’t need anymore changes though that’s for sure, i think it’s perfectly balanced rn

[serene glade]

nothing needs any balance changes. TGM 2026 needs to the meta to settle down so they can be at their best

[kindred gorge]

“Decreased dispersion when aiming down sights while standing and moving, making the weapon more accurate”

[muted condor]

I just hope they leave the mini gun alone because if they make it ever so slightly easier to use the Redditors are going to lose it and get it nerfed into oblivion

[opaque wolf]

true, the pros need a whole year to get better at the meta

[indigo nexus]

Oh, I didn't notice - I guess this was an unknown mechanic..? Never seen it mentioned anywhere

[unkempt moss]

They threatened us once, they will do it again.

[serene glade]

thank you for understanding. theyll add an extra 9.99 esports bundle just for you

[chilly granite]

yeah pretty much, like for some reason they think the repeater being ttk competative with the akm and model is "balanced" and so they're buffing other weapons to keep up, when the repeater should not be ttk competative with akm

imagine if the sr84 was ttk competateive with the arn and db

[muted condor]

They should let me throw the dual blades and two shot medium with them

[kindred gorge]

I’m just glad it wasn’t a placebo because I definitely did notice a difference

[serene glade]

Just know we are keeping a close eye on this minigun, step out of line and there WILL be consequences

[kindred gorge]

Absolutely rocks in 5 v 5 settings, gonna take it into a cashout game and see

[opaque wolf]

just let me sprint while blocking damnit

[serene glade]

epicsauce

[unkempt moss]

No throwing melee. You'll summon the angry old guy

[muted condor]

That’s me. I hate melee throw

[stoic garden]

i remember they said they wanted to punish minigun movement while shooting more, which i think is kinda fucked up, i hope the person who wrote that was fired after saying that

[indigo nexus]

Ah, it was actually known since season 2! I just never saw it mentioned. Would be a pain to measure.

[unkempt moss]

No... the angrier old guy

[muted condor]

Don’t touch my fucking spear with your grubby scrub hands

Idk C*tter is going zen now

[unkempt moss]

I don't want to. I want hammer to get the throw.

[serene glade]

hes gonna spin cancel, hold your S key

[muted condor]

He is truly the unbothered monkey

[unkempt moss]

I want spear users to rot in f tier like they deserve. I hope that shit gets nerfed.

[serene glade]

me with flamethrower users tbh

[muted condor]

You’re not invited to my birthday party

[unkempt moss]

No you edited it. I'm invited

[compact tundra]

You're just jealous that my low tier weapon is clearly better than your low tier weapon

[unkempt moss]

Kyskyskys

[muted condor]

I’m going to take the skin off your knee caps and make you crawl through a salt field

[serene glade]

sorry guys, couple of bad apples has ruined the entire batch

[unkempt moss]

I like salt

[alpine sphinx]

I like goo

[unkempt moss]

Hyeah

[muted condor]

So full of goo rn

Just absolutely pumped with it

[chilly granite]

akm vs repeater

[muted condor]

God damn numbers

Number slop

[chilly granite]

the second graph is ttk vs headshots, akm vs repeater

so with 2 headshots, the repeater kills medium faster than 100% haedshots with akm

[muted condor]

I don’t use graphs, I don’t read numbers, I pick a weapon and if I lose with it I complain on discord

[indigo nexus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/991690558303113278/1418263783759024281/goo.mp4?ex=697e2594&is=697cd414&hm=76518731887d4c4de7d242f7a56bc6eb0ce72b254fd4cd0b2c5e15bf3cd8bb40&

[kindred gorge]

I’m surprised repeater loses out on the lights

I suppose that’s not accounting for melee though

[serene glade]

i need to change my inspect button so i can spam this more

[chilly granite]

it doesn't most people miss at least 1 bullet which results in repeater being fsater

[serene glade]

next season ofc

[indigo nexus]

too many people I think do not quite grasp the danger that numberslop poses

in the battlebit community people seemed to despise the fact that I would condense data into simple values, but their data was realistically not possible for a human to efficiently interpret!

[chilly granite]

do you consider my post numberslop?

[stoic garden]

2 more hours until my plane comes to pick me up i love delays

[muted condor]

Numbers like like everything is good in moderation. It’s healthy even but use it to much and you lose the plot

[unkempt moss]

I don't think the problem is understanding it as much as motivating myself to read through 26 of those a day.

[chilly granite]

the repeater beats the akm because the repeater ttk is 2 bodyshots, but the akm is 7 bodyshots, and vrey few people are good enough to hit 7 bodyshots with 0 misses in a row

[indigo nexus]

to an extent yes, though it could be far worse

it is not easy to get a complete and practical interpretation of this information

[chilly granite]

that s why I added colours, I am working to imporove the visulatsation

[unkempt moss]

Almost got it

[kindred gorge]

I think adding the labels helped a lot

[chilly granite]

also, I did make the graph for comparing the old vs new fcar, not for comparing repeater vs akm

I would design it differently if it was from scratch for peater vs akm

[kindred gorge]

The formula looks reusable enough, I’m assuming the stats in the top left are being used as variables right?

[muted condor]

Most your stuff isn’t to bad but sometimes when you start getting into things like “the cool down starts at .02ms after the .3ms gap between use and it ends that means we have .32ms of….” It feels a little over the top

[quiet aurora]

to many meds not having the defi in their kits...

[muted condor]

Fuck defib

[unkempt moss]

Oh no

[muted condor]

Fuck defib users

[alpine sphinx]

the problem is that you have to have defi in your kit to be competitive

[compact tundra]

I genuinely mean no offense by this, but you're kinda bad at making your graphs easy to understand. It's not that the data itself is an issue, it's your skill at simplifying and conveying that data, again I mean no insult by this, just I am unable to understand most the numbers you send in here

[chilly granite]

I type while I think, I know it's kinda cringe hahahaah

[muted condor]

Fuck the dev that suggested defibs

[unkempt moss]

He just calmed down and you post that

[serene glade]

defib is for losers. dont rely on other men picking you up for your failures. strive to win on your own

[muted condor]

Fuck the devs that let defib stay on the game

But most of all fuck the mfs that get mad at me for not fucking running that worthless piece of shit that is defib and damn you to hell you troglodyte

[chilly granite]

I generally don't put a lot of effort into making them clear, instead of just getting the correct numbers, if you're interested in the data but find it hard to interpret, let me know and I can improve themm

[unkempt moss]

Just go jung. We'll handle him him.

[kindred gorge]

Good

[chilly granite]

like the first version of the fcar data had no colors for visualisation

[muted condor]

I’m also not smart enough to format it in my head so it sounds like gibberish lol

[chilly granite]

don't worry half the time I'm not smmart enoguh to format it in my head either

[compact tundra]

Bruh, I did that the other day and even after explaining it I didn't understand 😭

[muted condor]

Really just makes me want to punch a child with a heart condition

[unkempt moss]

The child heart thing... there it is again.

[serene glade]

what are you gonna do, give me open heart childrens surgery

[alpine sphinx]

tripple defi medium is actually the most toxic thing in this game

[muted condor]

I’m going to marry you now

[compact tundra]

Flamethrower is king in that scenario, sword also good if you have teammates that can cover you during the full team fights

[kindred gorge]

What about team of lights who gets there ass best and then starts emoting after one third party wipe

[alpine sphinx]

nah tripple defi is more toxic

[indigo nexus]

What about the triple goo gun stall build

[unkempt moss]

Thats based

[muted condor]

Triple stun gun pre rework

[indigo nexus]

it is both

[unkempt moss]

No.

Also, you're way more likely to see triple mediums defib than triple googun.

[alpine sphinx]

i have literally never seen tripple goo gun ever, even double goo gun i cant remember ever having seen

[unkempt moss]

If I had a point break team I would just run a heavy with mesh and 7 googuns. And when the time came to steal or disarm, the mesh runs while the other 7 just spam goo gun to stop the enemy team.

[compact tundra]

Omg I wanna try this

[unkempt moss]

They throw in healing emitters, googrenades and smoke, then 7 googuns just let it sing.

[indigo nexus]

That doesn’t change what it is

[unkempt moss]

I definitely dont think its more toxic than triple medium.

But I've also never gone against triple googun once in my 1000 hours. So who knows. You seem to go against it a lot.

[alpine sphinx]

tripple goo gun definitely is something that happens maybe once every 1000 games if i were to guess, while almost every single medium uses defi

[unkempt moss]

I go entire weeks without seeing a googun

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus gonna builld out this

[alpine sphinx]

lies, its in your hands

[chilly granite]

really probably better to do a graph

[indigo nexus]

yes, the huge number grid is a lot harder to read than the line-set

[muted condor]

I see at least one every round now

[chilly granite]

it's vastly easier to generate a number set than a line set hahahaha

what do you use for graphs btw?

[indigo nexus]

the matplotlib python library

It would be slightly more effort for me to put things in a grid!

[chilly granite]

I used to play eve online so my excel skills at top tier hahaha

excel's graphing tools are pretty mid, althouhg I could generate good graphs if I practiced

[indigo nexus]

if you continue to head down this path, you too could end up with a ludicrously computationally intensive data generation process in the pursuit of the most considerate data you can. Isn’t that a nice thought

[chilly granite]

btw, the low seections at the start of your graph, is that ttk with quickmelee?

This bit - does that account for the swing animation's damage delay?

so like, the swing is about 100ms, and then the damage hits in my testing

[indigo nexus]

yes

I found the swing time to be ~120ms, so that's what it assumes

[chilly granite]

I tested 100-110 with error of 20ms

[indigo nexus]

and then ~700ms until you can shoot again

[chilly granite]

i vibes based 1second on the cyclic rate ahhaha

too long for it to be useful

[indigo nexus]

almost certainly

but I originally implemented it back when gun shot recovery would happen during the recovery time

[chilly granite]

that would be way more useful then

[indigo nexus]

technically there are cases where my current system will still identify combinations of multiple quick melees that would be useful, however I don't think any such combinations practically exist. They used to!

[alpine sphinx]

minigun is actually just a trash weapon in the game currently
There is basically no upside except magazine size and a shitton of disadvantages

[chilly granite]

m11 tier dps

[indigo nexus]

highest dps in the game, on the class with the most HP

[alpine sphinx]

yes, after 2 seconds of windup 🤡

[chilly granite]

afaik u can bhop during spin

[alpine sphinx]

not functional, because that only works after windup, prevents any strafing or chasing, and has a big ass spread

[indigo nexus]

well, that's the tricky part, but doesn't stop it working well in the right scenarios. It's not meta but if you're part of the vast majority, you can totally dominate lobbies with it

[alpine sphinx]

*casual lobbies, yes, but that applies to any weapon

[chilly granite]

the spread is smaller than the m11 hipfire

[indigo nexus]

which is why I will argue with you if you make a general claim of almost any weapon being trash :p

minigun isn't low tier in my eyes though.

[chilly granite]

minigun is very fine

if you think it's trash you are using it badly

[compact tundra]

Minigun is still good even higher up. It's viable just needs to have the team play around the minigun

[alpine sphinx]

comparing weapons at their most accurate ofc, you can absolutely aim down sights vs a minigun heavy with m11

[chilly granite]

you shouldn't be peeking a m11 at a distance they will ads

[indigo nexus]

if it's not wound up yes, if it is then definitely not

[alpine sphinx]

even wound up its not accurate

[chilly granite]

it has the same dps as m11, and light has 150hp vs 350hp

you only need to hit 42% of shots to kill light first

[alpine sphinx]

you are stationary, the light can dash around you which guarantees at least a few misses

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, but in general players aren't accurate enough to quickly kill a heavy at long range with the M11. That kind of scenario won't really happen in actual gameplay, as it would rely on an M11 player with good recoil control to be in a position where they could unload as much damage as they needed into the minigunner while they had no cover nearby.

[chilly granite]

can u generate a ttk graph minigun vs light and m11 vs heavy

[indigo nexus]

on the same image, that will be a little awkward but yes

minigun is the single slowest weapon in the game to compute for, though :p

[wraith orchid]

we're already there, don't we suffer enough?

gotta use exploits just to be playable

[chilly granite]

that's a probleem with dash, not the minigun

[chilly granite]

can u include the m60 for a midrange heavy represeentation so he can see how it compares

[stoic garden]

wouldn't be a problem for the ideal 1 charge dash 30 extra hp light would it

[indigo nexus]

agh, not easily

[chilly granite]

no worries then

since we are only ocmmparing one class, the wiki has a decent eesitmation

[alpine sphinx]

true but considering every light runs dash, its something you have to consider when considering any light weapon

[chilly granite]

that's mostly because the m11 is the only light weapon that can even get close to medium/heavy ttks on light in a fair fight

[compact tundra]

No, be based, run grapple, it's better in every way clearly.

Dash is for babies, big based women like me run grapple cause it's literally just dash but better, I will accept no discourse, I am always 100% right

[indigo nexus]

it's fun to run grapple sword on powershift, you can just run circles around people

one of the only cases where I've seen someone teabagging and in response think something like; "yeah, makes sense"

[compact tundra]

It's unironically pretty good in powershift, can hunt rats effectively and be a constant nuisance on the platform

[muted condor]

Grapple is more fun imo

I should pick up light for a little bit

[indigo nexus]

grapple sword also works well against heavy flamethrowers there, they don't have time to react and you can attack them again before they regen

[compact tundra]

Try my loadout bro, it's both based and fun. You become a rat menace with the best movement in the game

[muted condor]

I have to use the matter

[compact tundra]

Nuh-uh

[chilly granite]

grapple is good if you value fun over winning

it does not work with matter

[muted condor]

Yeah hu

[opaque wolf]

i wish grapple was the meta pick for light, it’s easily the most fun one for both playing and playing against

[muted condor]

I have the keyboard reload for it

[alpine sphinx]

real, grapple feels so good to use

[opaque wolf]

it doesn’t feel cheap either like dash or invis

[alpine sphinx]

meanwhile dash feels bad and is bad to play against lol

[chilly granite]

nerf dash into the ground to force a grapple meta

[muted condor]

I might try matter or throwing knives today when I get home

[chilly granite]

@muted condor bow is nice with grapplenow

[opaque wolf]

nerf dash and get rid of invis both are just unfun to play against

[compact tundra]

Matter is for babies who miss, if you don't miss then double barrel is just superior, but see double barrel is for babies who actually get shot cause they can't move good, if you move good and don't get shot then sword is for big hairy muscular men and women. It's the best option if you aren't puny and weak

[muted condor]

I hated bow when I tried it

[wraith orchid]

me when I can only do 70 damage with my winch spear poke

[muted condor]

Like the sniper better

[alpine sphinx]

invis is fine imo, its not really strong against medium skill players and in low elo lights dominate either way

[modest lynx]

Real asf

[muted condor]

Hear me out
Little keyboard sounds on reload

[opaque wolf]

it’s not strong at all it’s just annoying, i hate dying to someone sitting in a corner permanently invis

[muted condor]

I should run invis DB

[chilly granite]

bow is a lot less gross to use now they buffed the cyclic rate and the predraw

[alpine sphinx]

how is that different to you running into a room where an enemy is hiding though

[stoic garden]

i ran invis db in quick cash, i can testify it was funny as fuck

[chilly granite]

mattere doesn't have the dps to play grapple

[stoic garden]

not particularly riveting gameplay tho

[muted condor]

Sniper is funny

[opaque wolf]

because i can see the enemy?

[compact tundra]

Honestly it's been like 4 seasons since I've ran cloak and shotty, I gotta do it next time I'm on

[stoic garden]

hop on motion sensor lil bro

or look harder cuz cloak got nerfed so hard u can see it while they stand still

[alpine sphinx]

yes but they surprise you, the invis isnt invisible once he starts shooting, it literally makes effectively 0 difference

[stoic garden]

having ran invis lh1 on quick cash, i can testify camping near or above cashouts and headshot spraying people does indeed make a difference

[indigo nexus]

They can wait until you are facing away and shoot you in the back.

Or wait for circumstances to be ideal in any other way, really

selecting the right time to open fire with invis seems to actually be very important

[stoic garden]

so yea, cloak exists and indeed does what it says it does

[indigo nexus]

finally (would have taken an age to do longer range)

[stoic garden]

if it didn't why would anyone play it

[opaque wolf]

any good light is gonna wait till the fight is in their favor, it’s just that i find invis user’s way of fighting to be just unfun

i’d rather deal with dash any day and luckily that’s meta

[stoic garden]

hop on lockbolt

[opaque wolf]

i’m a heavy main so i know how bad it is

[stoic garden]

WHAT

[opaque wolf]

like i know how bad invis is

[chilly granite]

@opaque wolf are you controller player?

[unkempt moss]

I have bad blood with most spear users. Not you, bud.

[opaque wolf]

doesn’t make it less annoying to die to randomly

[stoic garden]

the death isn't random, just unpredictable at times

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/black-stare-nah-wyd-eye-gif-23953713

[unkempt moss]

Yes you

[opaque wolf]

i wanna be able to fight back, it’s the main reason i like this game compared to other fps games

[stoic garden]

invis in quick cash kinda sweeps since it takes easy advantage of all the noise and chaos

[opaque wolf]

shit like db invis though goes against that

[chilly granite]

similar in tdm

[opaque wolf]

still think 195 a shot is fucking ridiculous

[muted condor]

I thought you were my pookie bear 😔

I was planning on proposing to you

[alpine sphinx]

literally how

[chilly granite]

@alpine sphinx check the graph please

[stoic garden]

too bad my g, cant do much against that until embark finds out how to make things fun to fight

[stoic garden]

wtf is my reply, i wanted to reply to this

[compact tundra]

My version of his words

Cause they don't want any fun or engaging changes to their weapon like spear throw, they just want muh spin cancel

[serene glade]

muh spin cancel is pretty spot on

[alpine sphinx]

spear throw would unironically suck, cause they cant make it better than the melee, damage wise, since then its just a ranged weapon, and if it does less damage than the melee, its gonne feel very underwhelming since the melee combo chain already deals low damage

[opaque wolf]

i mean making it go down to 175 is a start, that way you have to land all your pellets to secure a kill

[stoic garden]

they made it 195 cuz the range is absolutely dogshit

[chilly granite]

195 is fine if they adjust the spread pattern to make it as bad as the matter

[opaque wolf]

the spread is also insane, you barely have to aim with it compared to the other shotguns

[stoic garden]

I'd rather they make dmg something like 149 but make it shoot really fast and have somewhat fast reload

[muted condor]

Spin is fine

[opaque wolf]

even cerb you have to be more accurate with it

[stoic garden]

cerb fucking sucks and its design relies on multiple pellets hitting

[chilly granite]

cerb has a bunch of problems and so is a bad argument for anythign

[opaque wolf]

cerb is bad rn cause of the fire resetting on hit

[compact tundra]

If I added throw I'd make it do 75dmg as an anti rat tool. But I have long since given up on spear throw since when I consider my theoretical balance changes I listen to feedback from the players that use the weapon

[opaque wolf]

if they just allowed fire to stack then it would be fine

[compact tundra]

Never giving up on flamethrower alt fire tho, that's my main and it's my choice dammit, I want an alt fire

[opaque wolf]

airblast

[chilly granite]

would u take 6m max range for a flaregun secondary tf2 flaregun style

[compact tundra]

No that shits boring and doesn't really fit this games style. I want the alt fire to be like scorches thermite launcher from Titan fall 2. Would deal 45-60 on direct, and leaves a 2m circle of fire around where it hit with the typical 30 after burn damage. Probably cost 10 ammo, would make some nasty combos

[opaque wolf]

spear spin is fine they just gotta change it to how it acted in the heaven event with it being cancellable

i still don’t understand why they had that event and didn’t change spear whatsoever

[chilly granite]

yeah that's why I suggest flaregun, even 2s thinking says airblast isn't good for finals

[muted condor]

You can spin cancel the problem is hit detection

[compact tundra]

No, we had an amazing dual flare gun weapon idea for medium a while back and I really wanna see that implemented

[stoic garden]

but blowing back rpgs...

[chilly granite]

I'mm not saying flaregun is the right idea, I'm reinforcing your point about airblast

[opaque wolf]

i could see that for light as they don’t have any fire weapons

[alpine sphinx]

i dont think healing gadgets should be a thing

[compact tundra]

This was the idea
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZXrnG2iqay-H1E1uA5k1-Eg4MaWn85llfBmQnkQ2JPw/edit?usp=drivesdk

[stoic garden]

they're the only reason light is viable in ranked so I'll take them ngl

[chilly granite]

rework pool dash and invis, make lights specs grapple, gateway and h+

[opaque wolf]

what made you think that, the fact that h+ was instantly meta

[opaque wolf]

and yet i barely see it

[stoic garden]

well, was, it isn't now

[compact tundra]

Honestly as much as I avoid asking for items to be moved to other classes, Cerberus would be far more functional as a light weapon, would give the double barrel healthy competition for its role

[chilly granite]

I htink cerb best fit heavy

[opaque wolf]

i doubt it as db just deletes people quicker than cerb does

[stoic garden]

i dont see it in heavy to dump their 3 back shots and dip with a low uptime weapon, shak50 is already pushing it

[opaque wolf]

it’s like a BFR vs KS comparison

people are gonna pick the one that does more damage

[stoic garden]

istg my replies are fucked up

[compact tundra]

Yea but now you have an extra bullet and consistent after burn damage

[chilly granite]

light can't survive to profit off burn damage without dash, reinforcing dash meta is bad

[broken mulch]

dash is def overused

[chilly granite]

dash is underused, it's alwys the correct choice

[alpine sphinx]

destroys so many thresholds and counters too many weapons, and light healing especially can outheal any source of damage which is insane, especially for a gadget

[stoic garden]

there's a reason people play dash with shotguns, they synergize well with the spec 🤔

and dont play well into cloak instead

[broken mulch]

dash and shotguns make sense but dash is on everything

[opaque wolf]

there’s a reason why HML with h+ and heal beam is meta

[stoic garden]

cuz cloak and grapple suck

[compact tundra]

Ok I get the dislike of dashes prominence, but disregarding it entirely is just wrong to me, even if cloak and grapple were buffed, and dash was appropriately nerfed rather than redesigned, some weapons just work better with dash. Double barrel and in conclusion Cerb being two of them

[opaque wolf]

light just needs a new spec

[alpine sphinx]

yes, and its stupid

[stoic garden]

maybe make the current ones work instead

[opaque wolf]

something to maybe take away dash’s presence

[stoic garden]

i dont mind a new spec but i want my cloak usable please embark...

[broken mulch]

yea cloak isnt great rn

[chilly granite]

I get you, I'm just frustrated by dash defenders

[stoic garden]

I'm actually fine with grapple being a little worse, having more casual options for this game is cool, things like flamethrower or charge and slam dont need to be meta if you get me

[stoic garden]

your weapon needs it to live

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I kinda defend dash to an extent, I certainly think it shouldn't be unviable, and I want it's nerfs to be appropriate while keeping its current uses more or less the same just with more commitment per dash. But I think a lot of people see light has been teetering on the edge of being unviable for a while and are scared it dash got nerfed that would be lights final nail in the coffin

[opaque wolf]

grapple isn’t even that bad, it’s really good for securing cash boxes, it’s just that people are gonna pick whatever wins them fights over anything else

[stoic garden]

I'm frustrated by dash attackers, just buff other specs lmao✊

[stoic garden]

winning fights is kinda important you know

[chilly granite]

since the buff to bow, it's functional with grapple now, altuhhgo signfiicantly worse than dash

[opaque wolf]

exactly

[chilly granite]

yeeah I'm grapple main, whichis why I always shut down anyone saying grapple needs buff to compete with dash, it would be aboslutey busted with even a small increase of power at top level games

[chilly granite]

the thing is, buffing grapple/invis won't fix the problems of dash, and it will make worse problems tooo

[muted condor]

I still think we should swap heal beam and defib as specs and gadgets

[alpine sphinx]

yeah dash needs to be nerfed

[compact tundra]

Honestly every time I think about it I like the idea of thermal vision becoming a light spec more and more

[chilly granite]

it makes no sense for only hb to be a spec when h+ and emitter are

thermal as a light spec is a horrible idea tbh, id rather it be removed

[muted condor]

It would also help with the problem of everyone having defib

[compact tundra]

How so? You trade survivability for fight potential. No dash, no grapple, no cloak, just you and your aim

[chilly granite]

forces a really, really antifun playstyle for everonye but thermal player as a spec

[compact tundra]

So does cloak, and sniper, and double barrel, and dagger

[muted condor]

Having h+ or thermal be specs wouldn’t really work because it gives you no survivability

[chilly granite]

keep in mind that thermal would have to be significantly stronger as a spec than gadget

[muted condor]

You’d be forced to have smokes as well so it’s a spec that is completely reliant on a different gadget

[compact tundra]

Honestly not really. It's sheer ability to scout would be fine enough, it wouldn't dethrone dash or anything but would give a cool combo for snipers, scouting style players, tracking dart users, and make the thermal smoke actually cost you something

[stoic garden]

sniper has glint and actually reveals where you are when adsing, even when cloaked

[chilly granite]

did anyone else here used to play thermal?

[stoic garden]

i played it for a little, didn't like it

[compact tundra]

I did quite a bit actually

[stoic garden]

I don't like that it hard counters cloak lol, have you figured out i love cloak

[plucky spade]

somebody send a truth nuke to this guy's mail

[chilly granite]

I'm still sus on thermal as a spec, but if you did used to play thermal, I'll respect your judgment

[compact tundra]

I think that's fine, with thermals ability to easily spot people and counter some and gas cover I think it'd honestly work well

[muted condor]

I played recon >:)

[opaque wolf]

i still love that thermal was only a problem because there isn’t an easy way to get rid of smoke

[plucky spade]

ok now send actual nuke to this guy's mail

[compact tundra]

Mods, lock this guys to game feedback for 5 hours

[chilly granite]

When I came back in s7 smokes were so nerfed when I tried to thermal throuhg them the smoke would dissapate too fast hahaha

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/black-man-crying-cry-crying-crying-emoji-crying-meme-gif-3223392509479903783

[plucky spade]

BRO HOW DID THEY THINK RECON WAS ANYTHING BUT BUSTED OP

[muted condor]

Actually why am I worried about a nuke. I’d see it coming through the mail box >:D

[plucky spade]

"oh yeah free wallhacks whenever the med wants, this is certainly ok"

[muted condor]

Naw I’d pre fire

[chilly granite]

I'm very suspicous that embark devs are bad at the game, which is why they keep letting things that are insanely strong in the hands of a good player, in the game

couhg couhg cb

probably their only good players are light mains, whch is why light is permanently underpowered

[muted condor]

Embark should bring recon back fr

[chilly granite]

at current rate, they probably will just to kill the game faster, so they only need to thik aobut arc raiders

[muted condor]

Yes join us in doom posting over the game

[plucky spade]

pls bro don't send me in a fit of rage over the gamer community

[chilly granite]

man I was firmly hope posting until the last two patches ignored cb

[plucky spade]

legit

[opaque wolf]

i completely lost my hope when i saw that they “buffed” fcar and didn’t touch akm lol

[stoic garden]

not me, having played this game for 9 seasons, i know their modus operandi atp

[chilly granite]

I'm pretty sure the akm doesn't need mcuh help, if any, if they fix the glaringproblems with the game

[plucky spade]

why are they not nerfing cb, like where is the consideration

[compact tundra]

I already crashed out in #👂┇game-feedback over this balance change, I could say more but I ain't buying nitro just to tell them their game balance is shit

[stoic garden]

they aint ever buffing ak mag size after they added p90 ngl

[opaque wolf]

akm just needs some recoil buffs and maybe its 36 rounds back

currently fcar recoil is much more controllable imo

[plucky spade]

akm is fine ? maybe recoil yes

[stoic garden]

i DESPISE akm recoil, it's not super hard it just pisses me off

I'm much more used to the elegant curves lewis provides to me

[opaque wolf]

idk why they choose to buff the m60’s recoil over akm when that shit was already easy

[stoic garden]

to me akm recoil at range is like "waste your first 6 bullets bozo lmao"

[plucky spade]

bro for real, how much recoil buff does m60 need?

[opaque wolf]

exactly

makes me just wanna go back to FAMAS

[chilly granite]

guys please, we literally have no idea how these weapons would feel in a game where cb and bfr are propelry balanced

[plucky spade]

it's already the easiest thing in the game bar none to almost to control

[plucky spade]

rpm nerfs?

[chilly granite]

if we say too much we will confuse embark and they will buff the repeater

[stoic garden]

none cuz it already does great at mid range, anything beyond should be left to lewis

[opaque wolf]

49 dmg pike :)

[muted condor]

Left cb unchecked, buffed a poke weapon, made the servers worse some how, left spear hit detection, and left dual blades dog shit

[plucky spade]

dual blades at least kills h in one combo

[opaque wolf]

i just want duel blades’s deflect to feel consistent

[muted condor]

God damn typing with gloves is annoying

[plucky spade]

the way it works with the server? hell no

[serene glade]

I'm telling you it would be really cool to slow down the fire rate or something even more on the m60. Have the recoil be buffed while not moving or something and make it a projectile weapon. Keep the Lewis hitscan buff the hipfire and the tweak both weapons after you see what happens. So many guns in each class feel so samey

[stoic garden]

i think it's ok for weapons to feel somewhat samey as sidegrades with slightly different functions

[plucky spade]

that aint the way googs

[stoic garden]

also why the fuck should the 70 mag lmg be slower lmao

[serene glade]

I'm just spitballing. Tbf I put more thought into that then embark has lately

[compact tundra]

I'll give you that one

[stoic garden]

i think akm and fcar feel a lot more samey than lewis and m60 tho

[serene glade]

Yeah the medium weapons are the biggest offenders, but I really just don't feel any difference in picking m60 vs Lewis either

[stoic garden]

i do instead

m60 got that big booty mag that allows me to not reload in almost a whole teamfight

lewis lets me destroy people at almost any range foolish enough to try and contest me

[sudden pewter]

Next week bros Eclipse Shade lewis trust

[stoic garden]

weapon looks too rustic for that ngl

fuck they gonna do paint it black and give it some random ass straps?

[compact tundra]

I'll never put down my gamblin lewis, gotta spin that wheel

[muted condor]

Your mom looks rustic

[unkempt moss]

Yes. They are creatively bankrupt

[sudden pewter]

I'll drop my virtual expension ASAP daddy wants Tacticool Lewis

Guarantee the reelmag will have grip tape or some shit

[serene glade]

FINGER GUNS BRO, THE FINGER GUNS

[stoic garden]

i like the clapping noises they make

[muted condor]

You’d like the clapping noises Catter makes

[kindred gorge]

Maybe it’s a loadout or solo queueing issue but m60 does not put the work on cashout

[stoic garden]

i would say skill issue but heavy struggles in solo queue the most of all classes

[indigo nexus]

blatantly ripped from TABG

[kindred gorge]

Lewis gun just does it better honestly

Not much else to it

[chilly granite]

mostly solo uqueu issues tbh

teammates tend to run around like headless chickens, and lewis will have a much easier time supporting out of position teammates

I'm giving up on the hit probabiltiy graph that shit is too hard

[muted condor]

I’m about to try playing light

This shit gonna be a walk in the park fr

[glacial light]

Hi I'm here to say that I love roasting lights with the flame thrower hehe

[simple snow]

Can someone give me a good solo queue light loadout for ranked including the reserve

[unkempt moss]

If you dont stand in front of the death juggernaut it is pretty easy for a while

[chilly granite]

@compact tundra @muted condor please r8 for clarity

technically light shouldn't have a line for 2headshots since the sr84 onetaps? but idk you kinda need it for the cb comparison

here's for the new fcar

[compact tundra]

What do the colors mean?

[indigo nexus]

also, everyone, I have a video that you can use to complain about embark whenever you wanted them to do more than they did

[chilly granite]

green = advantage the first gun, red = advantage to second gun

green being new fcar/sr84

[compact tundra]

I don't think they check #👂┇game-feedback at all anymore, a post making fun of a dudes dead mom has stood for 4+ hours without any moderation

[indigo nexus]

maybe the poster forgot to provide more context and the guy was talking about escaping his abusive family

[compact tundra]

Bruh

I'm actually laughing at that rn, that was a funny ass response

@warped prism

If that's your buddy or something and it's an inside joke of some kind let me know and I'll remove that section, I was more concerned with the lack of context and moderation than the post itself. If not tho I'll keep it standing

[warped prism]

nah that was a random that said that

[indigo nexus]

so it was just made up?

[rose jasper]

but his mom died last year

[half lake]

🥀

[clever geyser]

rest in piss 🌹

[indigo nexus]

oh wait, no, I forgot how the message went

[warped prism]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-rage-angry-annoyed-whatever-gif-5126333390325209476

[rose jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/leo-my-life-is-a-party-my-home-is-th-club-guinea-pig-gif-13441183110600809637

[half lake]

https://tenor.com/view/jj-griddy-gif-26583964

[half lake]

my bad yo, yeah it was an inside joke

[warped prism]

hes lying

[half lake]

completely on me tho, i can see how it poses me in a bad light 🥀

[indigo nexus]

grok, who do we believe

[warped prism]

he insulted me and my mother cms please ban him

[chilly granite]

cms just ban both for being annoying

[half lake]

fuck yeah

[warped prism]

REAL

[compact tundra]

Damn aight I'ma remove the section. I was more concerned with the moderation than the post itself

[half lake]

nah nah, my bad. that's on me

[warped prism]

didnt apologize after insulting my family tho did you

[half lake]

yo can you stop instigating bro 😭

[chilly granite]

I mean, your point stands @compact tundra , even if it's a joke, cms should've nuked it from that channel

[compact tundra]

Either way if I delete it I get more room to piss and moan about the balance patch and the devs lack of communication

[chilly granite]

hahah

[muted condor]

Damn the double barrel is cheeks

[warped prism]

please buff rpg and make lights 100 health

[unkempt moss]

Googs talks about srilankans kissing their dad and Israel all the time. They do not care.

[compact tundra]

Yes but I rather take it down and not risk him getting banned for an inside joke

[warped prism]

this oppressive light meta is getting annoying

[muted condor]

The LH1 is fun

Also fuck defib

[chilly granite]

what opressive light meeta

[serene glade]

Woah woah woah woah. Proof?

[compact tundra]

Bro your in there daily talking about how shrilankans get Tom Brady'd and enjoy it

[muted condor]

Another reason to hate defib

[serene glade]

not reading all that

[compact tundra]

That's fair, but you are playing WAY too far ranged for DB. If you can't see the crust of their ass it ain't doing shit

[chilly granite]

ehhh it has better damage at that range than matter

[muted condor]

Sure I probably wouldn’t have killed him anyways but the fact that he was fully revived and aiming down sights but still completely invincible is just dumb

[chilly granite]

ttk matter vs repeater

god the matter needs a buff

[winged furnace]

oh yeah. at least a range buff.

[chilly granite]

I mean, mostly a range buff, but the close range dps could be slightly improved

it's ttk on heavy/medium is just ass - it's strong in cashout only because the cahsout meta is bad

if embark fixes the meta, then matter loses value hugely

[unkempt moss]

Cashout is the only meta that matters