💣┇weapons-gadgets

[compact tundra]

Bros trying to be diet Ben Shapiro in the finals discord smh

[shell hornet]

winch pulls things towards you

[chilly granite]

lockbolt pulls things in, winch pulls and stuns

[compact tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/goo-gun-the-finals-goo-gif-11263600545026771416

[shell hornet]

thats a gadget dipshit

[chilly granite]

my point is that you can make a winch that doesn't stun

so why should the spec that does one thing really well?

Lockbolt is a mcuh better example of something that does one thing, really well

[shell hornet]

maybe that was bad phrasing but winch pulls things towards you better than gadets can

[chilly granite]

yes, it does, it also stuns, which IS NOT A REQUIRED PART OF PULLING

[shell hornet]

but its part of the winch

[chilly granite]

because specs don't need to do only one thing

and embark thought winch needed a stun as well as a pull

[shell hornet]

gngsta what i said was the simplest form if describing specialisations

[chilly granite]

guys am I right that this guy is embarrisng himself?

[shell hornet]

i mean ur js yapping to fast to let me respond to each claim

[chilly granite]

bro I'm playing a game rihgt now

[shell hornet]

for every message ive sent in the last 10 minutes uve sent like 5

[shell hornet]

oh maybe thats why ur making no sense

[chilly granite]

how am I talking too fast for you to comprehend while I@m playing powershift

[shell hornet]

bcs powershift is a joke

[chilly granite]

lmfao toxic

[shell hornet]

im not expecting anybody who primarily plays arcade modes to have a grasp on simple game mechanics

[chilly granite]

hahahah you love ad hominems huh

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856827759179071488/1334268093089845360/attachment-6-1.gif

[shell hornet]

im js saying that you dont need to put all that much thought in when ur plsying powershift

[chilly granite]

sorry c4tter I'll stop falling for his bait

[shell hornet]

the most i ever ragebait is exaggerating my argument in a rude way

im actually js arguing simple game mechanics rn and nobody is stopping you from saying i disagree with ur perspective

[chilly granite]

anyone got protips on how to do damage while standing on the powershift point? I don't wanna queue this mode for a bunch of games and my team is killing the enemy before they get near me lmao

[shell hornet]

gas grenades pyro grenades mines and turret

[compact tundra]

Flame thrower, pyro nade, pyro mines, and healing emitter, and winch claw to drag their ass back to the platform

[chilly granite]

the enemy team is just fighting my team like, 50 meters away lmao

[shell hornet]

place a turret near the fighting then go to the platform

or use bfr or sr 84 to snipe them

[chilly granite]

we won at halftime lmao

hopefully my team loses next game so I can get more powershift platform damage

If I play medium I'll get deleted off the playform propbably I'm ass at medium

[shell hornet]

js play heavy

[chilly granite]

ohh I actually amanged to complete it I didn't think I'd do enoguh damage

thanks for the help

[shell hornet]

anytime

[chilly granite]

tbh I kinda feel like most of heavies weapons feel like they hit too hard at range and too soft up close

[compact tundra]

As a flamethrower main I call bs

[chilly granite]

most* of heavies weapons

I feel like it's a symptom of the harsh falloff curves in the finals

I'm trying minigun rn to see how it feels in tdm

[compact tundra]

I think that's cause the farthest fights usually go in the finals is mid range, a range where heavy dominates. But heavy is specifically balanced to be bad at long range (minus the scourge that is the BFR) and strong at close to mid range. So some of heavies longer range weapons (again minus the stinky BFR) are weaker at close range (note the D-eagles and lewis gun), tho they certainly still can function at close range

[shell hornet]

heavy weapons are balanced for mid range whereas alot of med and light are balanced for close rsnge

[chilly granite]

I feel like heavy should have more of a zone of control where it's impossible to win a dps race

[shell hornet]

if you hit headshots heavy always wins

but also heavy is very focused around team play

[cunning wyvern]

"Hey there contestants! Here's some more slop skins no spear rework"

[chilly granite]

if heavy didn't run so fast it would be fine to give heavy a zone of control because they'd be more kitable

[shell hornet]

hey there contestants, we buffed the v9 again because it didnt have a 100% pick rate

[chilly granite]

it's too easy to get heavy, and keep heavy, in a strong position imho

[cunning wyvern]

Who cares buff spear

[shell hornet]

heavy doesnt run fast and does not control that much otherwise it would be too op. a major aspect of heavy is to tank damage for your team while also being a sort of anchor for your team

a heavy by himself is an easy target

[cunning wyvern]

Gets 2 shot by DB

[chilly granite]

heavy runs super duper fast

[shell hornet]

3 shot*

[cunning wyvern]

2 shot

[chilly granite]

go run a light beside a heavy sometime you'll see what i mean

2 shot by db unless they're trash

[shell hornet]

if you hit 2 headshots yes but you dont

[cunning wyvern]

The gun cant headshot

[chilly granite]

it's not headshots, it's bodyshots, it's most pellets

[shell hornet]

yes it can, model cant

[cunning wyvern]

It cant

[shell hornet]

well last time i used it it could

[chilly granite]

You can miss two pellets on a heavy and still kill them with double barreled twoshot

you're kinda selfreporting right now bro, you should probably stop

RPG+deags is some next level bullshit

[shell hornet]

hey all im saying is that i remember hearing a headshot sound while holding db

[chilly granite]

that was you recieving a headshot

[shell hornet]

well im going off the wiki rn because i havent consistently used sh since like s4

and according to the wiki sh1900 two shots head on heavy and three shots body

[chilly granite]

it clarifies that the "headshot" is all shots hitting

[cunning wyvern]

It cant headshot. It's already real strong if it could it would 1 tap every class with 1 shot

[shell hornet]

depending on the multiplier they give it

[chilly granite]

read the "usage" section on the wiki

[cunning wyvern]

Either way just buff the god damn spear

[analog pewter]

hey guys where do you think the head hitbox is on this?

[cunning wyvern]

In its pants buff the spear

[chilly granite]

hahah at least it's not axoltl

[analog pewter]

there are so many fucked head items that are soooo much bigger than the hitbox. god just make the hitbox bigger so its less painful 😭

[shell hornet]

well anyways my point stands that you wont consistently two shot a heavy

[chilly granite]

you will? just don't be bad

[cunning wyvern]

Happens a lot, not that hard

[chilly granite]

it's really really not hard to make sure that you miss 2 or less pellets

[cunning wyvern]

Buff the spear tho

[shell hornet]

when they are stealing and “alot” is subjective

[chilly granite]

it's really, really, really easy to facestuff a heavy with the db

you might die to his team for it but you will kill the heavy

[shell hornet]

only if you get like inside of them, going for kills on a heavy as a light doesnt really support team play as nullifying the heavy is alot more sustainable and consistent

[chilly granite]

you don't need to be inside them

[cunning wyvern]

The gun is a problem with a player who is competent 1 taps lights and 2 the rest

[shell hornet]

if you are that close to a heavy you are likely dead

because they would have their team around them more often than not

[chilly granite]

i hate you for making me go practice range to prove this

[shell hornet]

fellas hate me cuz they aint me

[analog pewter]

every weapon in this game needs like week's practice or more to get consistent with, but like yeah.... the double barrel's whole job is basically two-shotting heavy. you can absolutely get consistent at it, it's not the hardest weapon to do so with

[shell hornet]

sh is a solo que weapon anyways so no point grinding it that much

[cunning wyvern]

????? It's a common comp weapon????

[chilly granite]

this two shots the heavy, 5 meters, the green dots are sh1900 dispersion and i'm playing 95fov

[analog pewter]

i dont think the double barrel is seen much at high ranks is it?

[shell hornet]

yea in low ranks sure

[chilly granite]

what rank are you for context

[analog pewter]

the problem with the DB isnt its inconsistency but that it's prone to trades when you generally want your light to be able to get out alive once they get a pick

[shell hornet]

you barely see it above plat because weapons like arn can give good damage at range while staying with your team

[chilly granite]

^^

I uparrowed the wrong thing, I mean the prone to trades one

[cunning wyvern]

More common after major tourney.

[chilly granite]

the arn should be deleted

[cunning wyvern]

Safer picks were super common like a month ago

[shell hornet]

i mean you get in with db, get two shots off then have to reload and run away

[shell hornet]

arn is incredibly balanced atm im ngl

[chilly granite]

until you put a diamond player with arn in a tdm lobby with lvl 14s lmao

[analog pewter]

ARN is in a good spot, it's probably one of light's best weapons but in a way that feels healthy for the game

[chilly granite]

at least teh m11 rubies die sometimes

this is not a >me< problem, I just bow headshot them, but I see a lot of new players suffering in my tdms

[shell hornet]

bow is super annoying

i see it like once a week but it always demolishes my health

[chilly granite]

dodge better

if you can't dodge better, walk around with a flowerpot and throw it at the bow, itll soak the first arrow

[shell hornet]

i mean the first time i picked up bow i went 20-6 its not exactly hard to use

[shell hornet]

with new draw time i still js die

[analog pewter]

lol every time i used bow in point break even when we lost i was like, always top frag on my team. and that was before the buff

[shell hornet]

bow is like easy mode throwing knives

[chilly granite]

yeah it's basically hitscan within 9 meters becasue the arrow is bigger than lights head

the projectile speed is basically the same as throwing knives but the arrow is bigger than lights head, where tk's is light head sized

[shell hornet]

the only way to balance bows is to cap their damage low and make them shoot fast with high proj speed

[analog pewter]

throwing knives need ONE CHANGE and that's not to have random spread while airborne. Why they think a weapon that has a super slow projectile that needs to account for distance and drop also needs to plant its feet on the ground is beyond me, and it toooootally ruins the ninja power fantasy

[shell hornet]

also bow has like no bullet drop compared to knives

[chilly granite]

it's a 680ms reload, if you can't kill a bow in that time that's a skill issue

[chilly granite]

tks have more air friction, the bow has correct drop for gravity

[chilly granite]

oh my god do they actually, that explains why they feel so crap when i jump around

[shell hornet]

arns ttk is 0.66s

[analog pewter]

yeah its extremely noticeable, go in PR right now and just throw them at the wall while jumping
doesn't help that I'm pretty sure evasive dash puts you airborne

[chilly granite]

and that was for a min draw arrow, which is 60/90 body/head damage, and so won't kill oyu

the min oneshot headshot draw is 310ms extra

[shell hornet]

yea well bow players are freaks that alwayd get the first shot off

[chilly granite]

so carry around a flowerpot and throw it at them so they can't

[shell hornet]

average human reaction speed is 250ms

[shell hornet]

that aint sustainable

[chilly granite]

this is a fight you've already started by throwing a flowerpot at them, why is reaction speed relevent

[analog pewter]

i think what sucks is when a dev studio sees weapons performing adequately and deciding there's nothing worth changing, when often those weapons still deserve QOL/gamefeel updates. TK with no air spread would make the weapon better but I don't think it would make them OP, and it would absolutely make them feel much better to use

[chilly granite]

absoltuely

[chilly granite]

a drawn bow moves slower than a heavy, if you're letting them peek you and surprise you, you've got an issue bigger than i can fix

[analog pewter]

it's why I'm glad they're looking at model 1887 staged reloads. weapon is in a decent spot rn but that would make it feel so much fucking better. so maybe they do understand this, but they're not prioritizing it

[chilly granite]

ye the model reload is so awful

[shell hornet]

yea but bows are normally at range aswell

[chilly granite]

if they're at range, dodge better, the arrow is slow as hell, you can out dodge it at 10 meters

[shell hornet]

and its the poke damage that makes bow annoying anyways not them killing me

[analog pewter]

season 9 reload change was a huge boon and I love the weapon, so I'm not hurting for the update. but I will be excited when it drops

[chilly granite]

if you're at 25 meters, the arrow will take 200ms to hit, so if you have good reactions you can duck when they peek and never die

[shell hornet]

so im supposed to use my spidey senses to dodge or what

[chilly granite]

strafe spam will make you very hard to hit lmao

[shell hornet]

cuz i normally get headshot without even knowing there is a bow on me i dont think you are understanding my point

[shell hornet]

do i just strafe 24/7

[chilly granite]

try invis bomb

[shell hornet]

im a med main gng

[chilly granite]

lmao eat shit bow is getting revenge for cb being busted

bow is op vs medium and I'm overjoyed

[shell hornet]

i use ak or r357

[chilly granite]

flowerpots still work but you need to get good son

[shell hornet]

if i js knew where the bow guy was i would be able to kill them but they always have cloak whenim against them

[daring elbow]

buff shield 🙏

[chilly granite]

btw the bow can kill a medium faster than double barreled

[shell hornet]

im so glad nobody uses bow bcs it is js a cringe weapon

[serene glade]

oh how wepngadg has fallen

[chilly granite]

are poeople actually running cloak with bow? that's crazy

you can't draw bow cloaked, and the minimum ttk is 490+680ms

[shell hornet]

well nobody relevant uses bow anyways

[daring elbow]

always good to coordinate with your team ig

[chilly granite]

but the bow can kill a medium in .71s 🙂 makes me very happy I can bully cb players hahahaha, even faster than double barrel

unironically the cb is still the best counter to the bow, even if they have th drop on you, most bow users will go for double charged headshot because of the consistent lead time/projecitle speed, which means that they can die to you faster than they can kill you even with element of surprise

min ttk on medium with double charged is 1.15s, cb is 0.76? and with bad reactions times that's still faster than charge time

alright I've played enoguh heavy for a month back to bow it is

bow is great on casual modes becaus you have alot of lights on casual modes and the bow has always fucked up lights really good

plus casual player movement tends to be worse so you don't need to lead as much, or sometimes at all

[unkempt moss]

This is what happens when you shun the fun posters. You get bow users and mediums.

[chilly granite]

hahaha

to be fair i'd be mad at the world if the only intersting equipment i get is my weapon LOL MEDIUM PLAYERS

[unkempt moss]

Catter thought throw posting and GOUF patching was rock bottom. All the meangreens getting what was coming to em with posts like this.

[restive plover]

Hellooo
Could someone test if Winch + Sledge leftclick + Quickmelee is guaranteed?
The easiest way is to have a light spam dash to get out of it I reckon.
It would also be good insight for the wiki.

[chilly granite]

I love lvl 12 players in lobbies with litearl pros

sbmm is not real in tdm

[unkempt moss]

Of course you use the anime skin. Talk about a self report.

[chilly granite]

hahahah

I feel glad the lvl 12 at least got some kills, I've seen some really sad games

all the enemies I died to were multiple time emeralds lmao

man idk how to make qucik melees land wihtout melee aim assist and that shit makes me nauseous

[sudden pewter]

I kept telling you and nobody believed me

[chilly granite]

there should be a lazer gun in teh practice range for aim trainging which does super low damage but it has perfect accuracy hipfire and you can choose which weapon's recoil pattern it has

btw idk if u realize a

but I post a lot of my hottest/worst takes here to see what you guys think, not because I think they're actually good takes, a lot of them are just funnny

like rocket jumping would be funny but it would also break the game for a few seasons lmao

[unkempt moss]

The answer you'll always get is that it will be too strong in high elo or too weak in high elo. That is why we will only ever get minor tweaks.

[chilly granite]

I think its fine to have some stuff too weak in high elo

honestly rpg rn is totally bs, like it makes light a deagle 1shot

[unkempt moss]

We have to worry too much about the people that gargle what ever meta testicles that dangle in front of them and esports.

[chilly granite]

ik thats embarks line but its literally the worst take ever, even the most esporty games thrive on their casual audiance, imho thats why valorant never beat cs

[unkempt moss]

And the goal post always moves. When you finally hit ruby it'll be the pro scene they cling to prove their point. "It wont be good for comp"
So now we're even catering to an even smaller subset of players for totally epic esports.

[chilly granite]

and I've been into esports but tgm wasnt that fun to watch lol

viewer experience matters a lot too, the viewer UI was dogshit

[unkempt moss]

Ive said from the beginning that THE FINALS is possibly the worst spectator esport I could imagine.

[chilly granite]

nothing can be worse than r6

[unkempt moss]

Its 200% chaos in 2 different places with separate objectives.

[chilly granite]

r6 is so bad as a spectator experience

at lesat for finals all the final 1v1 is good

the tournament format idea is fun but it's not suitable for an actual irl esport

[unkempt moss]

Its great as a casual sandbox shooter. Probably the best.

[chilly granite]

but nooo, muh comp

like the spectator ui doesn't show weapons or gadgets,only specs, which is so crap, csgo had this fixed 10 years ago

and final round is crap too

[unkempt moss]

That's all easily fixed though. Its the core concept of the finals that doesn't fit.

[chilly granite]

also, they've split playerbase over cashout, ranked cashout, and quick cash, when they have a tiny playerbase, so matchmaking for all of them suck

[chilly granite]

i mean, that only makes it more aggregious considering the so-called esports focus

if your griefing the casual players for esports and then don't do the basics of being a decent esports game right, that's insulting

I think you can make a good competative esport out of the final's framework of destruction, weapons, specs, and gadgets, but I don't think you do it with some fantasy tournement 3v3v3v3 mode

[analog pewter]

no no... heavy needs this

[chilly granite]

heavy needs rocket jumping more than oneshotting lights wtihrpg+qm

70 damage rpg with 1.5x self damage rocket jumping

3v3 isn't chaotic enough and 3v3v3v3 is too chatoic

[unkempt moss]

Give rpg 35 damage, two charges with a reload and rocket jumping. Just try it out for half a season. Worst case its fun for a bit or its useless and RPG is out of the meta for 6 weeks.

[chilly granite]

final round is boring and 1st/second round cashout are way too confusing for a spectator esport

also if the pros gonna have mosue sensitivity that high they gotta add some camera smoothing i'm feeling naseous watching this shit hahahahah

and the maps are wway, wayy too huge for 2v2

3v3*

which is probably why heavies feel like they need a ranged option like bfr becuase final round on massive maps sucks as a heavy

also why heavy needs to sprint so damn fast because it'd suck walking arund thes giant maps

but i mean, evasive dash having both charges and a shorter cd than grapple tells a damn story, that is the most crazy take ever

new point break loadout who dis

I think h+ would make a really cool spec

[stoic garden]

"ayo this gadget so strong it should be a spec" many such cases

[chilly granite]

h+ is probably the best argument imho becasue 1) the nerfs required to make it bad, would make it unplayable and 2) it's interestingto make light have a non-dodgy spec

vanishing bomb should be the invis spec thouhg

that's a hot take

that's a steaming hot take

why does tracking dart even exist?

[stoic garden]

light without a selfish survivability or movement spec is not light and, you're just making a long range heal beam 2, that doesn't sound very interesting at all

[chilly granite]

being an xtrasquishy medic would be fun

[stoic garden]

light is already helpless with cloak, imagine with h+

[stoic garden]

🤷

[chilly granite]

that's a seperate issue

[stoic garden]

more like a consolidated design choice at this point

[chilly granite]

lights too squishy with any spec other than dash becuase dash is op and they balance for comp where everyone uses dash

[stoic garden]

dash is overpowered relative to other light specs, but probably quite balanced if you look at what other specs on heavy and medium can do

i wouldn't nerf it until the other two get buffed or reworked

[chilly granite]

medium specs are ass, and all worse than dash by far

you are surely not trying to argue that heal beam or turret is equal to dash?

I would argue that invis/grapple/turret/healbeam are actually quite equal in value

especially comapred to dash/med specs/heavy specs

heavy specs are sus

like, i don't even know which heavy spec I would even consider not op

googun is only balanced because people use it badly lmao
mesh is insane if used well
charge and slam is crazy powerful too
and winch is winch

if heavy specs are the standard then dash is probably underpowered lmao

I haven't used dmat enough to know if it's remotely balanced or good or anything so I'm not gonna speak on that

plus I think a lot of it's power comes specifically in cashout which is my least played mode

hot take and this is bait: I think they should make the competative mode powershift

5v5 teams are big enouhg that you can do 3/1/1 or 2/2/1 team layouts, which is cool; interesting choices are cool

5v5 teams means that teams have many more choices for loadouts, since you only need one guy to bring zipline/gateway, the other guy can bring a more intersting or weird gadget which makes life more intersting for everyone

5v5 fighting over 1 objective makes the spectator experience way better than 3v3v3v3

powershift always has more range variation than the other modes because the exposde point makes sniping relevent, but puhsing the point is often intense cqb, so more weapon variants are relevent and meta is less defined

[unkempt moss]

Head2Head will most likely end up being the esports mode if they really want it to succeed.

I wouldn't even be surprised if it became the ranked mode.

[shrewd wave]

hey i think some xp earning should take less time, like for exemple the defibrilator is crazy long to level up

[slow linden]

Queue into lobby of only arn and v9s lights,shit on all of them with cloak double barrel because they are all blind,receive death threats in messages lmao

[chilly granite]

yeah, but tbh 3v3 head2head is pretty boring lol

[analog pewter]

h2h, point break, and now cashout are the only ways i play this game

[oblique crypt]

I use it with dagger and sword sometimes just to give me something to do at long ranges.

[analog pewter]

id be interested in seeing 5v5 head2head. that would be fascinating

[chilly granite]

gateway sucks so bad

I don't believe for a second anyone actually enjoys this gadget, they just like winnning

and idk how you're meant to play with grapple, you're so squishy

[oblique crypt]

Grapple is very satisfying to use

Gotta be my favorite specialization after goo gun

[chilly granite]

I love grapple but it's ass

lights weaopns are balanced around a light who uses dash to force the other guy to miss, and grapple just doesn't

[gentle ridge]

Quien habla español aqui?

[chilly granite]

I think youre meant to speak englihs

I'm getting the hang of grapple again but it really does feel so much worse than dash

[unkempt moss]

Consistent, repeatable, sterile, fair. That's esports, champ.

[chilly granite]

tbh i'm pretty sure 3v3 h2h is more sterile and boring than CS

cs teams have come out with some insane strategies over the years

not being able to change your loadout is so anti-competiative it's insane

current final round/competative ruleset

its fun for the crowds if a team gets stomped, then swap to some insane cheese strategy to take the next round

crowds don't actaully like sterile consistent repeatable because it's boring, crowds want unexpected and new things to happen

that's also why I think 4 gadgets would be good because there's some insane synergies you can pull off

[unkempt moss]

What is the cause of all these people saying match making is screwed up right now?

[chilly granite]

it's no worse than normal for me but my normal is matches with pro players and brand new players at the same time

I think everyone is getting the tdm matchmaking experience

[unkempt moss]

I'm assuming it's ranked they're talm bout

[spring spear]

its back to how it was in s4-5 for ranked which is long queues which makes the matchmaking have to be extremely looose meaning people in gold go against ruby players

[unkempt moss]

How are they seeing rank? Just their player card?

Are there just less people playing ranked?

[spring spear]

probably

[spring spear]

yes

[unkempt moss]

Why is that? I thought the number of players hadn't really dropped

[sly estuary]

what region are you

[spring spear]

eu

[sly estuary]

na queues are super quick for me, always < 1 min

[spring spear]

the overall players no but ranked players yes because ranked is ass and gets worse each season

[sly estuary]

feels likle the opposite for me at least in na

[sly estuary]

most gadgets are pretty boring gateway is not one of them

[unkempt moss]

What makes it worse than last season for you? Our main problem is the staleness but we've started playing other weapons to ease that

[sly estuary]

is revolver best med weapon now? repeater is better for long ranges fs but revolver wins at close-mid

[heavy lava]

idk its pretty nice but famas is still good and i use M1887 alot

also like what if there was like a self heal syringe that you could use on yourself healing like 100hp and you can also use on teammates

[spring spear]

rs gain has been lowered so it just takes longer to reach plat but rs loss at higher seeds has stayed the same

[indigo nexus]

So they made it more strongly consider rank differences

Presumably to soften the blow of being matched with much better players

[valid ingot]

buff pike

[wide stratus]

Make pike a cheeseburger

[cerulean furnace]

Been playing Dual Blades and I love them despite it being the worst weapon on Medium, and that's completely fine.
What I would love to see if that pressing block actually cancels your ongoing attack.

The reason I ask for that is that it's really easy to spam M1 with them, especially now that the third strike does way more damage, forcing players to be too reckless and get stuck in the attack animation when they wanted to deflect actually.

Of course you can just quickswap usually, but that just leaves you open for too long when it really matters.

I do think a change like that would bring a nerf to it as well, be it a damage nerf again to the third strike, or that blocking mid swing cancels your combo, which I honestly wouldn't want and have a feeling the more experienced blades players wouldn't either. Was just an idea I had recently, feel free to give inputs on this if y'all want

[neon quail]

Actually sounds like a good idea, but I dont see how you come to the conclusion that Blades are the worst weapon for medium. At least in lower ranks, I can still dominate with them and I feel like although this change would bring back melee better for higher ranks, it would affect the lower ranks mbe too heavily. Just a food for thought. But we definitely need to bring back melee in the Finals.

[cerulean furnace]

How about the hardest weapon on Medium. They're great don't get me wrong, but in contrast to every other weapon even the Riot Shield, it's much less viable in medium ranks than lower

I always treated them like a very technical weapon, where I had to force myself to consider my positioning and situation way more, as well as to play more like a trickster. With the DMG buff I noticed that I spam them too much when I get in range to someone

And tho I enjoy the damage and think it's a good change, I kinda miss it when the weapon forced u to actually play very smart with it

[restive plover]

does anyone know the loadout of the hammer heavy in the grand major?

I can't find his pov anywhere

[neon quail]

That fits better, I see your point

You also have to consider using more tactical utility and cant really play your medium utility for fun, which is one thing I really like abt medium

[neon quail]

Found it: Sledge, Winch, Pyromine, Goo Grenade and RPG, at least if you mean Ruby Labubu/meowfum

[quiet shadow]

Make Cl40 more self damage(or range of self damage),
Reduce the hip fire accuracy of the sniper rifle, close combat should not be an advantage for it in any way, nerf this annoying bolt shotgun.

[shell hornet]

none of these offer any value icl, i assume you mean ks by bolt shotgun and the ks is pretty balanced in the meta rn. cl40 is also very balanced but just annoying and sniper is like one of the only light weapons that makes sense to have good hipfire due to its low pickrate

[frigid whale]

how many world tour points for a quick cash win?

[shell hornet]

like 6 or 7

[muted condor]

Buddy wants the cl40 to one shot itself but lights still have a two shot kill weapon with zero self damage

[stoic garden]

💔 stop cl40 violence

[chilly granite]

he meant sr84 when he said bolt shotgun i've seen people call it that lol

[shell hornet]

oh lol

[sudden pewter]

Idk bro I think he’s spitting with the sniper hipfire

Disable the headshots on hipfire maybe perhaps

[unkempt moss]

That would make it useless in high elo.

[sudden pewter]

Like a solid chunk of weapons in general, woe upon Lights

[unkempt moss]

We must make everything viable in all elos of the game. This surely isnt an impossible task. The top .01% of players in ranked is more important than anything.

[sudden pewter]

You’re so right, I forgot ESPORTS is vital to the games future. How could I be so blind

[unkempt moss]

Thank you. You are smart now after adjusting your opinion properly.

[noble saddle]

I've been running Riot Shield, Turret, Flash Grenade, Breach Charge and Frag Grenade as a casual loadout.

I won 4 cashout tournaments first day on the build lol

This build is electrifying. Riot Shield offers such a unique playstyle for medium and imo it's significantly more fun to play than the dual blades.

[sudden pewter]

All playstyles kneel at Shaks altar.

[noble saddle]

Riot Shield feels like it's actually decent counter for shak due to its small clip size.

Shak is obviously a much more consistent weapon for heavy than riot shield is for medium but it is fun to block a few shak shots and kill the heavy while they're reloading

Guns like the m60 they can just spray at me and I die a lot more often

Biggest counter to riot shield is the light class lmao I can't hit them and they can just shoot me in the back all game

Lucky for me most light players are bad and just die somehow anyway

[unkempt moss]

Do riot or dual blades block melee damage?

[serene glade]

dual blades do

[indigo nexus]

dual blades reduce it to 25% iirc, riot shield blocks it entirely but it's a bit finnicky and latency-dependant

[tall zinc]

yo

[unkempt moss]

Hi

[compact tundra]

Riot shield did for a while but I don't know if it was removed when they fixed the shields bugs after the initial nerf

[proven sable]

change lockbolt so it slowly tightens to the middle

[unkempt moss]

Will do

[sly estuary]

too much heals already

we def do not need a vita shot instaheal

[serene glade]

just finished talking to my dad (he works at embark), they said nah

[proven sable]

tell him to watch his back

[serene glade]

ill pass it along

[chilly granite]

eh if you miss a sniper hipfire then it's like 99% odds of death, I feel like that's pretty balanced tbh

[sly estuary]

lockbolt is strong enough as it is

[random fractal]

The smoke needs a radius buff abd maybe an extra second if the cloud duration

[serene glade]

yeah thats what my dad told me

[unkempt moss]

Is your dad Emerson Bark, CEO of Embark?

[serene glade]

🤫

[brazen seal]

ive seen more people appreciating the lewis gun lately so i tried running it and it still kind of feels awful to me

like its not an awful gun but it feels much worse than the praise ive seen for it implies

[sly estuary]

Patrick soderlund is the ceo

[unkempt moss]

So he lied about his dad being Emerson Eliyahu Bark, CEO of Embark Studios?

[sly estuary]

mb went over my head

[unkempt moss]

It's alright. They usually laugh at me and not with me here.

[misty sonnet]

Everyone has a frag but why not make more grenade types for only specific classes. Lights get an impact grenade, Medium gets a sticky grenades, and the Heavy gets a shrapnel grenade that’s shoots an explosion of shells (kinda like the shredder on arc raiders)

[sudden pewter]

This isn’t Planetside2 dawg.

Light has enough burst options, it doesn’t need a diet RPG in its gadget lineup.

What would the purpose of a sticky grenade serve that C4 doesn’t do better, beyond being able to mindlessly throw it like a caveman and pray for free damage?

And no, we don’t need shrapnel grenades, standard frags are more than powerful enough.

Stop letting the ring whisper its twisted words into your ear. Cast it into the fire

[harsh goblet]

Be cool if they figured out how to make Ice work somehow in this game

[sudden pewter]

We’d need more permanent cold maps beyond seasonal variants

[harsh goblet]

Maybe like let it have AoE properties like fire so it can splash everywhere and make things slippery. Maybe it can effect smoke to give this gassy AoE tick that does slow down

[harsh goblet]

Trueeeee

[compact tundra]

ALL MY MAINS HAVE MATCHING WEAPON SKINS NOW!!!

[indigo nexus]

nice

[unkempt moss]

I need to drop my drip in here. Mr. Finals and his bloodline go crazy

[sudden pewter]

All my weapons would have matching skins too if Embark released more Eclipse Shade skins

[unkempt moss]

You guys dont match your guns to your larp?

[unkempt moss]

Pretty good. Subtle but classy

[muted condor]

I like the flashy stuff but sometimes simple is nice

[unkempt moss]

I just made a new larp last night hammer. It's peak

It's the ancestor of Mr. Finals, Lord Finals.

[serene glade]

sorry, but nothing beats the dressed up to go the Y larp

[misty sonnet]

I don’t think it’ll be that bad, if balanced well they could be usable. Like for the heavy shrapnel grenade or HSG for short, it does chip damage so the slow powerful guns can quickly clean up a team if cards play right. Or like you said the C4 is good for trapping but imagine sticking a light and he scuttles back to the team before it explodes. Idk I just want more fun things and this came to me in the shower 😭

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[serene glade]

fun and ideas are not allowed for this game. you will get a 2 damage increase or decrease to a weapon and a .006 second MAXIMUM increase or decrease to ADS speed

[misty sonnet]

🙁

[shell hornet]

yea the game is too fast paced to allow changes to meta, increase ttk too much and its a slow paced game and decrease it too much and the game is ruined

[unkempt moss]

Uhh a 2 dmg increase would make the MGL way more usable. You will get nothing, nada, zilch, comprende?

[misty sonnet]

Okay how about this shower thought, boxing gloves for heavy. Primary:hits a four piece combo
Secondary:an uppercut with arching knock back (if it’s the fourth hit in the combo it kills mediums)

[shell hornet]

icl even a 1 dmg increase to any gun would make them meta (except sr maybe)

[compact tundra]

Sorry brother, the uppercut is reserved for my perfect and flawless melee reworks, I'm putting it on sledge

[shell hornet]

i mean i dont see much wrong with it tbh

its js a rip off sledge

[unkempt moss]

Uhh that was a combined effort. Make sure I am put in the credits.

[compact tundra]

Don't worry you are king

[unkempt moss]

Also, the hammer throw is integral to the uppercut for hammer.

[shell hornet]

goo gun is js an inconvenience 99% of the time

[serene glade]

to the other team yeah

[sudden pewter]

This is just the spear with an (even more) awful alt.

[shell hornet]

the only time goo gun actually gets me killed is when im heavy or using cbr

[misty sonnet]

But it could be fun with the claw

[shell hornet]

winch is just goo gun but better in certain ways

[shell hornet]

it would be fun in general, maybe they could make it a sledge skin

[serene glade]

do people really not see value in something unless its killing you. like it also stalls the best out of anything in the game and its not close

[unkempt moss]

Imagine thinking like this unironically.

[sudden pewter]

This is not a good reason to add yet another lackluster melee weapon

[shell hornet]

maybe i js dont play against good goo players

[serene glade]

you cannot steal a cashout with a goo gun player defending it without killing them

[shell hornet]

that is very true actuslly

[misty sonnet]

Hmmm maybe we just need a really heavy throwing weapon for heavy that can stick people… kinda like a javelin

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/525991695918301244/1432060484063985766/Editor.gif

[shell hornet]

alr i take it back, goo gun is js better mesh shield

[shell hornet]

rework spear so that its on a chain that you can throw for huge damage

[misty sonnet]

YES

[shell hornet]

right click is the same

[sudden pewter]

Oh my god

[shell hornet]

js with more range

[sudden pewter]

This channel really is just a rotating door of the same stupid shit suggested by players seeking a totally different game

[unkempt moss]

If I added boxing gloves. M1 would be machine gun blow, just rapid low damage punches. M2 would be sword lunge but instead of being lame af it would knock back and do damage if it hits against walls. R would be a hook with a .1 second stun on it.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-worm-cat-worm-catworm-ai-generated-gif-11758626355945811640

[misty sonnet]

No, I like the game just wanted more more toys

[shell hornet]

hol on gng nobody here is stricter than me and this idea would never get added its js funny to think about the spear being long ranged and maybe actually good

[sudden pewter]

I wish I still had the fucking god awful Light Scythe thread, because that’s literally this

[shell hornet]

it doesnt work for light icl but spear on a chain for heavy might actually be balancable

[compact tundra]

The problem is a spear is a long range melee weapon, but the spear in game is a lot closer to an irl great sword, a are defense weapon that creates a zone of death around itself. That's kinda where the spear through makes spear mains mad. Cause they see the spear as a short ranged area denial rather than the ranges poke a spear actually is

[shell hornet]

yes thats why the game should make it clear that the spear should be used at like ten meters

[serene glade]

they actually make it clear to not use the spear with how horrible it is

[misty sonnet]

How about decoys for medium? Give him you know a titan fall feel… I can already feel the criticism

[sudden pewter]

Yeah I want Light to have a scythe that’s larger than its body and:

• Can do both single target and multi target swings/sweeps
• Chain wrapped around the arm that can both pull targets and be used functionally as a grapple
• Hybrid bastard weapon that’s a melee powerhouse and ranged utility
• LifeSteal because fuck it why not

[shell hornet]

nah i don think so

[shell hornet]

i never said that fng

[misty sonnet]

Y’all know what I ain’t even upset, at least yall lessened to my crummy ideas. Thank y’all I will be back with more stupid ideas

[shell hornet]

i said any gun not all guns but go off

[compact tundra]

The problem is the spear in game isn't a spear, it's a queso-glaive or more realistically a great sword

[serene glade]

ONE DAMAGE YES, THE MGL IS BACK. THE 3.01 SHOTS TO KILL A MEDIUM IS NO MORE, REJOICE BROTHERS

[shell hornet]

its the form of the spear that is used as a dagger on a stick

[compact tundra]

Na it's literally a great sword. It spins for area denial and has a ~6m poke attack (can't be bothered to actually look up the range of the poke but I know it's longer than most Melees). It literally functions as a great sword does irl

An irl dagger is a weapon meant to hit weak spots in armour while grappling

Or to dual wield with a sword and used as a parry weapon

[misty sonnet]

I was thinking something similar with my boxing glove idea

[sudden pewter]

I’m half Khanjar and I can confirm daggers aren’t used for weak points, they’re exclusively used for posturing and complaining about weapon balance

[compact tundra]

Damn got me there

[sudden pewter]

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND BRO
MY INSTAKILL WEAPON NEEDS BUFFS

THE GAME NEEDS TO BE BALANCED TO SUPPORT ONLY THE WAY I WANT TO PLAY

[sly estuary]

rpg

[misty sonnet]

I wanna throw rocks in this game

[serene glade]

oh god not this again

[misty sonnet]

Again?

[compact tundra]

We get a rock throw idea like once a week in here

[misty sonnet]

I mean… just add the rock

[compact tundra]

Now we're talkin. Vore Inflation heavy meta

[serene glade]

someone wanted a projectile weapon that is just throwing bricks....which is just throwing knives, but they said they dont want headshot multipliers so its different somehow

[misty sonnet]

A BIG OL VACUUM THAT SUCKS PROPS AND LIGHTS UP THEN SPITS THEM OUT HARD!!!

[misty sonnet]

Wouldn’t a brick be an insta kill to the head tho?

zero g boots for lights

Remove everything make it’s just a baseplate without a skybox

BATTLE AXE FOR HEAVY YOU CAN THROW LIKE A TOMAHAWK OR USE TO HIT 4 PEOPLE AT ONCE

[misty sonnet]

imagine a led pipe skin for that

Looking up to see a pipe coming at you

[unkempt moss]

They dont want it headshot reliant. They want a grenade launcher that is about direct hits only. We made fun of it by calling it the brick thrower.

[sudden pewter]

My sweet little chudling, you’re wrong!!!! This is a PvE game and clearly balance can be achieved purely with buffs. #👂┇game-feedback said so

[misty sonnet]

And here I thought my grenades were dumb

[unkempt moss]

This but unironically

[misty sonnet]

HOW ABOUT A GUN THAT SHOOTS

[sudden pewter]

They still are! But some evils are worse than others

https://tenor.com/view/wawa-emdeb-fail-failure-cat-gif-16703817715131368982

It’s your rank silly. You’re a disgusting filthy white role

[compact tundra]

I'm so ass at this

[sudden pewter]

But do not despair, given time you will be as green as we, your gracious gods of Jade

[compact tundra]

The fuck is it again -levels?

[sudden pewter]

Doesn’t work in this channel goober. It’s -r and has to be done in the rank channel

[unkempt moss]

I wish I could be knocked back down to white again.

[compact tundra]

No I meant the one that shows the server levels

You just chat on the discord

-Levels

[raven finch]

Our leveling system

"Why can't I do some things in the server?"

• You may need to level up first!

How to level up? Just look around and join conversations. Lots to talk about!

Lvl 0: Newbie 0xp
• join VC • make bug reports • chat in most channels
Lvl 1: <@&1011197091470647317> 35xp
• create new VC • reactions • external emoji • images in drip check, pet channel
Lvl 3: <@&1011197119199191071> 115xp
• images in most channels • embeds in main chat
Lvl 8: <@&1133322765194235904> 1015xp
• embeds and images everywhere
Lvl 15: <@&1012661788401217579> 3955xp
• external stickers • VC streaming • bragging rights!

Role descriptions: #👋┇welcome
Check your rank: #🏆┇rank-check

[compact tundra]

There we go, God I wish there was a reference sheet for this shit

[sudden pewter]

Blasphemy

[sudden pewter]

It’s in #👋┇welcome isn’t it?

[unkempt moss]

Or just perma red. That's where all the based takes come from.

If theyre red it's either based or so horrifically bad that its fun to read

[sudden pewter]

My first day on this server I warred with a filthy red role Light main

[compact tundra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/850448260434624573/1319229600382980146/caption.gif

[sudden pewter]

1 message 1 XP. 35 messages to first role

[shell hornet]

lemme go check it out it cant be that bad

[sudden pewter]

It’s worse.

[shell hornet]

ive been speaking here for years so it should be fine

[compact tundra]

Another soul lost to the void

[unkempt moss]

Get me away from green! I dont want to be part of the no fun hive mind.

[sudden pewter]

He doesn’t know.

[sudden pewter]

Your hatred will become your strength. You will be as we are in time.

[serene glade]

guys, im starting the think flamethrower users arent based. they are the only ones that ever respond to my bait post with "DONT NERF MY FLAMETHROWER, ITS NOT EVEN STRONG"

[sudden pewter]

You’ve done it.

[shell hornet]

flamethrower can legit trade any weapon

[compact tundra]

I was the same way when I first joined, I was on the server for like half a year before I hit orange. But once I started chilling in this chat and realizing I can get paid to chat on discord cause I work retail I levels up quickly

[unkempt moss]

Flame is based. Do not nerf it.

[shell hornet]

flame is definitely balanced

its js very easy to use and annoying to play against

[sudden pewter]

I was born green, I’m:

• Always correct
• Never wrong
• Blessed with Milky Naturals

[serene glade]

i just need embark to stop making me fat, and consuming this mcdouble for lunch, its their fault not mine

[shell hornet]

yum

[unkempt moss]

You forgot

• No fun

[compact tundra]

It's cause we're scared bro. Sword, CL-40, dagger, sledge, were next bro, we can feel it

[shell hornet]

all those things are balanced to flame rn

[sudden pewter]

The Finals is fun and when stupid stinky no good filthy goobers suggest things that have no business in the game I react appropriately. (Releasing genetically modified crabgrass onto their lawns)

[unkempt moss]

Dont be scared of nerfs. They cant stop heavies from winning. They'll need to remove heavy from the game to stop me from beating light ass

[compact tundra]

No I meant that's a list of weapons that were never really that great, maybe besides sledge and sword that one time, but got the Nerf Hammer anyways just because they're annoying to fight

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-team-fortress-heavy-gif-21772094

[unkempt moss]

Nah.

[shell hornet]

we should make a wheelchair speciality where you have to be pushed around by ur teammate but legshots and lower body shots dont affect you

[serene glade]

do not forget, kenny kawaguchi was the best kicker in backyard football

[unkempt moss]

It needs to be more. That happens like once a night for us.

[compact tundra]

But I don't wanna play ShAK bro😭, I like my flamethrower actually working

[shell hornet]

the finals is very balanced so alot of the time its easy to nerf whatever the sadge lords tell embark to. most the nerfs they do are because they buffed something too much or smth had too high a pick rate

[sudden pewter]

The gnomes are inbound.

[unkempt moss]

Just play flamethrower harder. You will always be smarter and better than the lights. Heavies are the class that make bum ass spear and MGL work. They cant stop us.

[shell hornet]

its not fair he has that chair to sit down in

[shell hornet]

heavy is so fun but its js too slow paced

[sudden pewter]

Lights will never see the gilded glory of Agartha. Heavy is truly the apex of archetypes

[serene glade]

yakub will smite lights in due time

[sudden pewter]

Ishallah 🙏

[shell hornet]

also heavies are annoying to kill as lights. a heavy was stealing my cashout while being healed by emitter and beam and i did 535 damage to him and then i died before he did

[shell hornet]

i was using arn and hit like all headshots at point blank

bumbaclart wallahi

[sudden pewter]

I’m putting chemicals into your water that will awaken the dormant gluten allergy you have

[shell hornet]

and lactose intolerance

i don’t speak 💥 (im not racist)

two easy ways to get on any leaderboard in the finals, step 1. live in south america. step 2 literally exist

rip broseph

[serene glade]

ill take whatever the channel is right now over bow user spam ngl

[shell hornet]

so real i hate that guy

hes just insufferable and then if you bring up bow he drops every tiny stat and reason for why its balanced and high skill

its so annoying because it has infinite ammo and therefore room for error

no reason for it to three body shot a medium

[unkempt moss]

STOP YOU FOOLS! You'll summon the demon!

[shell hornet]

the gun that shall not be named

and the user of that gun

[compact tundra]

Inshallah he should not be summoned for another 32 hours of bow monologues shall occur

[shell hornet]

real

[unkempt moss]

I must return to my study and pray!

[shell hornet]

bumbaclart wallahi @chilly granite

everybody quick, hide before he arrives

[unkempt moss]

The 8th deadly sin, the sin of yappery

[compact tundra]

I shall follow the GooKing, retreat and pray, for you will need it

[serene glade]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrasad-gif-23310565

[unkempt moss]

Ngl this should be a bannable offense on the server.

[shell hornet]

fr lol, hes loke voldemort but worse

[compact tundra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/850448260434624573/1319229600382980146/caption.gif

[shell hornet]

that channel dead

[compact tundra]

God a lot of crimes to punish today

[unkempt moss]

You dont have the stamina, young buck. Trust.

I swear ive seen him not stop talking for two days

[serene glade]

self report on using reddit.....

[unkempt moss]

He doesnt need sleep, nor sustenance. He feeds off of responses

[compact tundra]

You don't understand, the first time I saw him in this server he monologued about bow for 32 hours straight, he's a being of pure passion for that one simple weapon

[shell hornet]

reddit is useful for “releasing” built up “stress”

[unkempt moss]

Ayoo

[serene glade]

me but with my bitchwife

[shell hornet]

also a good form of excercise

i am a chatbot set up by bow user to spy on you trust

you dont gotta give em ur face jst ur id or so ive heard

[compact tundra]

No bot, just him and a pure determination for yapping about bow, it's honestly inspirational the things one can accomplish when energy drinks and a very specific autism combine

[shell hornet]

wasnt for me

or so ive heard

[shell hornet]

gng drinks too much ospuze

[compact tundra]

He has been summoned, I shall pray for y'all, the horseman has arrived

[serene glade]

thats nothing, the guy at my local bowling alley brings a cooler and drinks 15-20 300mg energy drinks a day

[shell hornet]

obama bin laden

[shell hornet]

what kinda bowls does he make, cereal bowls?

i like kurd

lemony kurd

[unkempt moss]

I like curds

[shell hornet]

i think its spelt kurd

[serene glade]

culvers

[unkempt moss]

Nah. I meant curds

[shell hornet]

maybe ur thinking of turd

[shell hornet]

kurd as in lemon kurd

[unkempt moss]

Nope. I'm fat enough to know how to spell curds tbh

[shell hornet]

the joke

you

[compact tundra]

No the northerner means cheese curds

[shell hornet]

eek northern

cold and scottish

i went to scotland and now my dog died of cancer, cant be a coincidence

[shell hornet]

must have been 5 years ago now i went to scotland but the memory of his death is still raw, he only died last week

my old dog actually died last week, he was mine a few years ago but gave him to my grandparents because we couldn’t afford to keep him

my actual dog died last year at the age of 14

the dog that died last week was a cocker spaniel called scruff and the one that died last year was a cocker spaniel called sally

[unkempt moss]

I have a cat I saved from a dumpster and cold snowy winter named Ruffles.

[shell hornet]

cats r for femboys and lonely people

[unkempt moss]

Oh

[shell hornet]

and fat people

[unkempt moss]

Got me with the third part.

[shell hornet]

lol but dogs r js better

i was a black guy in the 1800s but then old man abe got me fired

mb for being black its the way i was born

im actually half black because my step dad is jamaican

[unkempt moss]

What if you have four cats?

[shell hornet]

ur lonely

[unkempt moss]

Okay, and if I also have a murder of crows and Ravens I feed?

[shell hornet]

or shane dawson

[shell hornet]

umm ur a murder-er

[shell hornet]

or gender fluid

no inbetween

[muted condor]

I had two Great Pyrenees and Akbash mixes

[unkempt moss]

Does fish keeping my situation better or worse?

[serene glade]

jarvis, send this fat, lonely, gender fluid femboy to hell

[unkempt moss]

PLEASE

this discord is all i have

[compact tundra]

I got a dumbass pug

She shape shifts and melts tho so she's a pretty cool dog

[shell hornet]

more like send him to my dms

heyooo

[sly estuary]

what do yall think are the best weapons for each class rn
for me its
light - no clue ngl, top contenders are arn, matter, m11
medium - revolver
heavy - akimbos (by far)

[unkempt moss]

Goo Gun
Repeater
ARN

[sly estuary]

i persnally think revolver is better than repeater now after nerf

since stk are the same if ur good and can hit headies unless ur on like kyoto or smth

fire rate is like almost 2x

[unkempt moss]

Repeater is just easier. So I think it'll be better in more scenarios for more people.

[chilly granite]

the revolver fire rate is too high to dip behind cover practically

and even pros can't hit headshots every time

the repeater nerf was a slap on the wrist and I don't think anyone actually cares

like the dps was better on the revolver before anyway

nothing has changed except that spread on the cb got fractionally worse when hipfiring standing still, which is already a minority of it's use, and it's ads is very slightly slower

[analog pewter]

Akimbos are not the best for heavy and revolver is not the best for medium. It probably goes something like
-m11, ARN, v9s
-Repeater, Famas
-Shak
Not much has really changed i think

SA12 is probably still good but since winch is counter-able now and more people are running mesh i suspect it's lost a bit of value, while SHAK still works great with everything

[near mist]

Hello, quick question, in terms of utility wich one is the best, frag or pyro granade ❓❓

[unkempt moss]

Utility is probably pyro since it can burn goo and gas, has a bit of stall.

[chilly granite]

good take

I know this is an unpopular opinion but the arn needs a nerf, like, I don't think a big nerf, but give it a lil more rrecoil or something

it sucks getting beamed at 60 meters and dying so damn fast

or at least make it less good up close, like the arn just doesn't have a weakness

the xp is worse hipfire than the arn and miniscule mag and worse at 30m than the m11

[brazen seal]

BFR titan is still pretty insane

[split moss]

bro people been using the sniper as a shotgun on me

[serene glade]

its really not since SA was legit just always used with mesh shield. shunning the revolver which melts heavy way faster is insane to leave out. 148 burst damage with really good hipfire is insane for all situations

[chilly granite]

the sniper is ass up close, it's got a 1.3s cd between shots, if you don't win that, it's your fault

[split moss]

you def never played the game then

[chilly granite]

the very same thing they do with sniper (shot+quickmelee) can be done on the matter with 0.71s cd

don't disrespect them by letting them get close enough to hipfire and quickmelee you

same as double barreled

[split moss]

not even that a heavy dies like that to instantly

[chilly granite]

what

how are you dying to a melee range sr84 as heavy

[split moss]

if a heavy get hits by that combo they die instant

that sad

[chilly granite]

even if he hits a headshot it's 3 quick melees

even if the first shot is a headshot, it needs a second sr84 shot bodyshot, which is 1.3s later, if he doesn' die in 1.3s of sitting on your face, that's a skill issue

do you have a clip?

[split moss]

idk why im agruing with a light user yall are all the same lol

[brazen seal]

[chilly granite]

@analog pewter can you take the position of helping this heavy as a fellow heavy

[split moss]

im not even a heavy

[brazen seal]

im a heavy main and i immediately get filled with dread when i have a light sniper on my team

because they are so often utterly useless, both playing with and against

[split moss]

dang i need yall lobbys then

[chilly granite]

ok, please tell me your prefered role + weapon and I might be able to suggest ways you can counter a sr84 player

prefered game mode is probably worthwhile too

[brazen seal]

i mean you shouldn't ever be losing to a sniper if you're playing at your weapons optimal range, its both easier and faster to kill with most weapons in the game

[split moss]

https://tenor.com/view/stink-gif-2447225171524817855

[chilly granite]

maybe he's cerberus player?

[brazen seal]

no advice can be given to help with that one

[serene glade]

tbf in game feedback you said dash should get the taser treatment, and nullifer is better than taser so idk where youre going with that

[brazen seal]

the repeater, titan, and ARN are the real sniper weapons in this game honestly

[chilly granite]

^^^

[split moss]

im saying it should be work on for 2 seasons or so lol

[brazen seal]

they are super scary at like all ranges

[chilly granite]

sr84 is a shitty version of the ks23

Hottest take ever: I thik all weapons would be better ifthey had a smooth falloff curve from point blank range to nothing eventually

[serene glade]

i think they should make the servers not horrible dogshit and just make all hitscan guns projectile

[chilly granite]

that's hopeless optimism

but tbh idk how you fix the arn/xp54 problem

they both kinda have the same goal and they'll always step on one anothers toes

I mean, the xps reload is way too long relatively, it's 2.5 vs 2.8s on the arn and the arn gets like, 1.7x the damage per mag up close and like 3x in falloff becuase it has double mags

[chrome solar]

When is thermal visions rework happening

[serene glade]

my dad who works at embark said early spring

[sly estuary]

nah akimbos has way higher skill ceiling

[analog pewter]

Oh right I forgot about that

[analog pewter]

It struggles with consistency issues and also can lose in poke fights which are meta rn

Like it's not great in super close range which makes it less synergistic with winch. I reckon it's fine with mesh but I think titan and shak are both better with mesh shield personally

[sly estuary]

how is shak good for poking>

[analog pewter]

Shak is good because if your shield is pushed you have better close range consistency. Deagles struggle when pushed. So the mesh shield kinda is an invitation

[sly estuary]

not everything has to be played with winch i feel like people greatly overestimate how good winch is relative to mesh or even goo gun. Mesh has a lot better team utility and increases ur survivability significantly

[sly estuary]

if youre good that shouldnt matter
i play deags with barricade dome and mesh its pretty easy to keep distance

and deagles is objectively better than titan if ur hitting headies
most people dont go for headies on a titan, the akimbos headies is the same stk as titan body shot stk but with 3x fire speed

its a great poke weapon too

[chilly granite]

I feel like this guy doesn't realize even pros don't hit headies all the time (:

[analog pewter]

I mean I'm a deagles player regardless I'm just calling it like I see it. Deagles are good but they are not the best weapons, people use shak and bfr over deagles for the same reason they use repeater over the revolver. Just because it peaks high doesn't mean those peaks are consistent or reliable

[sly estuary]

i mean i hit headies like 60% of my shots and im not a pro

[chilly granite]

you're also probably playing against non-pro players

better players also get better at dodging

[analog pewter]

Nobody believes you on this bro
Or you're in bottom elo lobbies where everyone stands still

[sly estuary]

so non-pro players are a lot worse at avoiding headies?
is there some godlike strafing strat im missing?

[chilly granite]

dodging is a skill

[analog pewter]

Worse players are worse at avoiding headshots lol yes

[sly estuary]

this aint fucking minecraft bow duels bro ur staying still mostly while shooting

[chilly granite]

go watch the grand major and see how many people "stay still mostly while shooting"

[sly estuary]

i watched the grand major if ur adsing ur not moving brother not that hard to understand

[chilly granite]

what's your pb on the hard shooting gallery?

[sly estuary]

the act of hitting headshots is not suddenly significantly more difficult when u paly against a ruby vs a bronze, its based on you not the opponent

[sly estuary]

i dont use that shit 😂 i can try tho and let u know

[chilly granite]

yes it is, I get rubies in my tdms and their movement is next level

[sly estuary]

idk what to say sounds like a skill issue to me, just saying that akimbos has highest skill ceiling and many pros are able to get enough out of that potential to exceed what they could do with shak
and even i am

feel like a lot of people are just blindly following the defined "meta" and shak is just a much easier weapon
so for the average person it probably is better than akimbos

[chilly granite]

pros don't have aimbot, so an easier weapon is still a benefit

[sly estuary]

pros should be relatively aimbotty, watch ekazo for example he cooks with deags he aint even top 50

[chilly granite]

I'd love to see how well you aim with 100k on the line and an audience

[sly estuary]

🙄 adernaline kicks in brother trust me ik im a competitive athlete (yes ik in a real sport not in front of a screen)

if aynthing you'll play better under stress

[chilly granite]

never heard of adrenaline shakes?

[analog pewter]

I've watched him and he definitely misses many of his shots and doesn't hit all headies - not to say his aim is bad, it's great, but that even the best players miss shots and don't get all headshots.

He wins because of great game sense and tactics and leveraging the games mechanics really well

[sly estuary]

not sure how we drifted from whats the best weapon to how well pros would use it in the major and the symptoms of adrenaline 💀

[chilly granite]

my point is that weapon performance isn't numbers in a vaccume, its numbers manipulated by a human being

[analog pewter]

Also I've seen his videos and people move around like crazy in his elo so you must not be there

They move around like crazy in my elo too

[chilly granite]

what's your score in the shooting range? if you hit 60% headshots, then the lh1 is the best weapon for it

[sly estuary]

mostly lights what other crazy movement is there lol, mediums get like one jump pad or zip charge and no one uses cns
its literally just wasd, nothing u wouldnt see in like aimlabs

[analog pewter]

Bro idk who cares about the shooting range tbh it's not a very strong argument imo

[chilly granite]

crouch slide -> jump transitions?

[chilly granite]

the hard shooting range bot movement is harder than bronze lobbies lmao

[analog pewter]

Mantling, sliding, re-aiming, etc

[sly estuary]

the recoil kicks like a mule, akimbos is very manageable

[chilly granite]

then do akimbos if you prefer

[sly estuary]

wow, so:
space bar, shift, right click

[serene glade]

Esports and it's consequences

[chilly granite]

pherro, have you heard of a thing called a spinbot? Do you know what it does?

[sly estuary]

no 😂

[analog pewter]

Oh my God man you are so dense

Post gameplay clips i wanna see this legendary 60% headshot aim

I wanna see who you're fighting

[sly estuary]

i dont clip, i would be happy to run a private match iwth u tmrw tho

[chilly granite]

a spinbot is a cheat for a lot of games that spins, crouches and bunnyhops your chacter for you

it does this to make other aimbots fail to hit it because the body is moving so fast

[analog pewter]

Start clipping man idc

[chilly granite]

it can break a computer, fuck human aim

[sly estuary]

yeah but do pro players do that? doesnt seem like it in ek's lobbies (ruby lobbies) for instance

[chilly granite]

they replicate it as best they can

the ruby medium i played against was doing crouch slides and jumping like crazy

[sly estuary]

the only people i see him sturglging with are lights

[sly estuary]

"crouch slides"?

[chilly granite]

focus up and give us your shooting gallery hard score

[chilly granite]

when you sprint and crouch, you slide?

[unkempt moss]

Bow User drags you guys in to the dumbest convos lmayo

[sly estuary]

so, a slide? tf is a crouch slide lol

[chilly granite]

this is not my fault

[sly estuary]

💀 bro u instigated so hard

[analog pewter]

True!

[unkempt moss]

Maybe, but you're present for many of these.

[sly estuary]

bow player intervening in a conversation about heavy weapons

[analog pewter]

I'm just asking you to start taking clips cause what you're describing is like insane shit.

[unkempt moss]

Bow User the typa dude in my game that tries to play bow and gets goolocked for a full mag while he gets quick melee bullied.

[sly estuary]

hitting headies with akimbos is a lot easier if you just pace your shots and model aim

[chilly granite]

have you done the sg hard yet?

[sly estuary]

no ive got work to do

[chilly granite]

I can never use the shak on the basis that it gives me a headache

[unkempt moss]

Too hard?

It is pretty high IQ compared to the bow

Whats a good time on the shooting mini game? It sounds fun.

[broken wigeon]

whats like the top 3 most niche medium weapons to main

[chilly granite]

no, the sfx and the visual recoil, I literally got a headache after using it for all of 1min lol

[unkempt moss]

Suuuuuuure

[chilly granite]

i got some pretty bad health problems

makes me susceptiable to such things

that's why I have so much free time to talk toyou 🙂

I literally took a break from fps games for a few years because it was worse, I'm doing better now and enjoying more fpssing 🙂

this shit so much more fun than dota lmao

@indigo nexus a guy in light builds was asking about the damage of the v9s, can you graph the pre-buff and post-most-recent-nerf v9s?

[heady rapids]

Can we get a Semtex/sticky grenade or an Impact grenade would be nice

[chilly granite]

I did most of the math the hard way I didn't give him any pretty graphs but I was able to give him some reference ranges so I think he has a decent understanding of the changes

[sly estuary]

as a m60 main in s2 shak is nothing

[hardy dust]

Its literally brainless compared to bow 😭

Shak is genuinely one of the easiest weapons in the game

The only remotely hard part is the small ammo count but thats such an easy thing to deal with

Even then it has a decent damage per mag

[unkempt moss]

Relax. I was joking with BOW user.

[hardy dust]

Oh okay, can't always tell with people in this channel

And its lowkey smth you'd say ngl

[unkempt moss]

I only give my actual opinion in here very seldomly. Also bouncing weapons and gadget ideas off of the people in weapons and gadgets is kind of the point isnt it?

Even if they are outlandish. Or should I ask what the best medium weapon is.

[cerulean furnace]

Clearly the Dual Blades

[unkempt moss]

It's most definitely the cerberus.

Give SA to medium, cerb to heavy. Thnx😘

[wide stratus]

Add a cheeseburger gun

[sand monolith]

Is this a real take

[chilly granite]

thank you very much

[unkempt moss]

This would be one of those times where I'm being a stinky little jokester. Just joshing. With it I'm trying to convey that I really like the cerberus, the only problem is that it's not on heavy which is my favorite class. Now there's a bit of gray there because it actually wouldn't bother me because I'm not super married to the SA even though it is fun and good.

I think the kiss face and abbreviated thanks was kind of like my cheeky way of saying it would be interesting to see heavy get cerb, maybe even try it out in an LTM or something non-commital. But not an actual long term change, even though it would be fun to jumble around weapons like that from time to time. Just as a way to shake things up. Mostly because I don't care about esports or keeping things stable in a casual sandbox shooter like The Finals.

In the past I have talked to some people here about how I think the cerb "feels" to me like it was supposed to be a heavy weapon but they needed to give medium something. That's obviously not a hard commitment to a point I would make, because I was speaking casually here in a channel that's largely speculative. As I said it "feels" which i can go in to more depth as to why it feels that way if you need me to, but I don't really think you care that much as I don't recognize your name here as someone genuinely interested in talking about things like that.

[chilly granite]

In the past I have talked to some people here about how I think the cerb "feels" to me like it was supposed to be a heavy weapon but they needed to give medium something. That's obviously not a hard commitment to a point I would make, because I was speaking casually here in a channel that's largely speculative. As I said it "feels" which i can go in to more depth as to why it feels that way if you need me to, but I don't really think you care that much as I don't recognize your name here as someone genuinely interested in talking about things like that.

I was gonna say that cerb feels more heavy than medium myself

vibe comfirmed

a damage over time shotgun doesn't make sense on a fairly squishy class without a lot of defensive gadgets

medium lacks a short ranged shotgun that's actually usable tbh

actaulyl usable for a medium*

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. The damage, limited ammo and range all feel like a heavy weapon to me. And as you said, the health of the heavy would be a large buff to the weapon in itself, while heavies speed wouldn't hinder it very much.

If you want to get meta with it, Heavy also seems to get a lot of the more experimental or "cool" weapons for a lack of a better term. Which the cerberus is to me.

[modest lynx]

I don't use Cerb much but from the 3 levels of playtime it feels like i dont have enough hp to reliably Leverage D.O.T. I honestly also think Incendiary based weapons should kinda just be Heavies deal

[chilly granite]

I think giving meidum sa is a cerified ass idea

[modest lynx]

SA12 ON MED would be Diabolical

[unkempt moss]

Well i cant just take a weapon so I was trying to make a decent exchange for them. The SA would also lose a lot of its usability without the specs, gadgets, and health of heavy.

[cerulean furnace]

I will need to put in a counterpoint here on the Cerb being for the Medium: It works quite well as a support/interruption tool and burst damage. The mechanic where ur supposed to be real close and wait out your shots does not fit Medium I agree on that, but in my experience it worked very well for mobile Mediums that jump in quick and out, and as a support to the Heavy while the Medium is keeping them alive first

I do like the Cerb on M, atleast with the way I play it

I do say that the Cerb feels very lackluster atm

[chilly granite]

as a medium weapon the dot probably needs to be buffed

[cerulean furnace]

So much so that it actually brought me back to the Model. Been having a real great time with that one now

[modest lynx]

I dont think the time should be buffed give it %based damage maybe?

[unkempt moss]

I'd have to agree with this, mainly because I use it in this way on my medium super support build. It's like I was saying, I just really like cerb and dont like playing medium. It wasn't very deep even though i like to think about stuff like this.

[cerulean furnace]

I did like the fact that the weapon inherently goes so much against what the Medium is built for, instead trading it for incredible high burst damage, forciing them to adapt to a much more aggressive playstyle

Then they nerfed it :c
I see why yea, but now there's not really much point in using it other than to annoy the enemies. Makes me feel like I'm playing Light Mini

[modest lynx]

LIGHT WITH NOTHING?

[cerulean furnace]

Basically yea

Feel like a buff to fire or rework might help the weapon? idk :p

[modest lynx]

%based damage 💔

[cerulean furnace]

The damage, range and spread I've been feeling fine with, even the reload, but SOMETHING is missing

[cerulean furnace]

mayhaps!

[modest lynx]

Big fella got more to burn let him burn more little fella the opposite.

[chilly granite]

the proposed anti-heal buff to fire is probably good

but honstly I think fire should last longer on players

[cerulean furnace]

I do think, having something that can nerf healing would be interesting. Would add a counterpoint on teams that utilize healing to the max

[unkempt moss]

Fire being antiheal has been talked about a lot in here which would give cerb and flame a very cool niche in the game.

[chilly granite]

how long does fire last?

[cerulean furnace]

not completely stop it, but maybe make it decrease the amount that play can be healed per tick depending on it

[chilly granite]

it feels like on 2s

[unkempt moss]

You could drop the dot dps if you gave it a full stop to healing.

[cerulean furnace]

hmmmm idk bout that, it's already not that much

[chilly granite]

fire dps should be nerfed and the burn duration should be longer imho

[unkempt moss]

Or even have it switch between the two. Like dot if not healing, antiheal but no dot when healing.

[chilly granite]

it ticks really fast for a lot of damage but you go out basically instantly

it seems to be 2 or 3 seconds afterburn on pyro nade

[cerulean furnace]

shooting multiple shots of fire on a play not resetting but instead increasing the time it burns would be something ig? Def sounds like something many players will complain about, especially Light Players that get too close with ther 150 HP

Wonder if that'd would make Smoke Grenades more of a viable pick too

[chilly granite]

I don't know about making the burn time progressively increase but it should be way longer

like, there's barely any point to even use a smoke as fire extinguisher because the dot runs out after like 3 seconds?

[unkempt moss]

Probably almost necessarily if you run healing.

[cerulean furnace]

There we go

[chilly granite]

3 ticks of damage after you leave fire

that explains why fire seems to do both too much and too little damage

[cerulean furnace]

Fire DOES feel very inconsistent

[chilly granite]

I think it's actually 5 ticks, at 15 damage/tick

think it ticks 2x per sec

no

alright I gotta crack out the recording softare and frame timer

someone get ready to update the wiki

[unkempt moss]

I swear on my life I see dash get rid of burn sometimes too.

[indigo nexus]

I found it as 6 ticks of 5.2 damage, for cerb

with flamethrower inflicting 8

[unkempt moss]

Flame just stays winning.

[chilly granite]

probably just looks like that because the burn is so short

the burn doesn't seem to "stick" sometimes thoguh

[unkempt moss]

I think this is what im experiencing. Especially on mine and thrower.

[chilly granite]

like sometimes I've walked into and out of the pyro nade aoe and only recieved a single tick of damage

I'm doing testing on heavy, so no dash in the equation

[unkempt moss]

Picking on heavy is not cool, bud.

[chilly granite]

my heavy is adorable in her winter cloak I'd never bully her

[unkempt moss]

You need to be a heavy player.

Heavy is the finals.

[chilly granite]

so instant damage on pyro nade is 5

the pyro nade is rounding

[serene glade]

Lights get plot armor on fire and it disappears if it's about to kill them

[chilly granite]

ugh these numbers are horrible what hte hell is the pyro nade doing

the first tick is 14 frames deep and the second is 16 frames deep, that's only 2 frame gap

[serene glade]

Pyro nade is not good. I liked it with KS sorta to "one tap a light" but pyro mine does that but better

[chilly granite]

pyro nade is meta in tdm for kill securing hehehe

but it absolutely sucks in every other mode for sure

if there was any other kinda of impact grenade, it would beat the pyro nade out in tdm

[unkempt moss]

Another piece of kit that would get big benefits from burn antiheal

[chilly granite]

pyro nade also needs a radius buff, it can't even cover like 1/3rd of a cashout

[indigo nexus]

Fire ticks from flame / cerb seemed to come at a rate of 3/s

[unkempt moss]

GOUF patch would save this game but Emby doesnt want that.

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus I got my excel and my frame counter ready I'll have some nice tasty numbers soon

[serene glade]

You could buff gas aoe maybe then give the anti heal on fire. Play around with it's damage. Have rps with the nades a little more impactful.

[chilly granite]

also when you pop gas with fire the explosion should cause damage

like, there's no way that big ass WOOSH doesn't do any enviro damage or player damage

[serene glade]

I think a good nerf to dome would be have gas be able to explode on impact on virtual shields

[chilly granite]

OHHH THATS A GOOOD SPICY TAKE ME LIKE

[unkempt moss]

Someone suggested percentage based on gas but that could get out of hand very quickly. Tune the percentage and it would be a nice buff.

He stole that take from me because of a match last night. DO NOT give him credit.

[serene glade]

Tons of cool little tweaks to the game you could play with and see what happens. But at least we are getting .04 ads speed nerfs

[chilly granite]

right now it's 30 scaling 60, so 30 scaling 1-10% max hp would be OK IMHO @unkempt moss

[serene glade]

Proof?

[unkempt moss]

Im stealing your Kirby socks

[chilly granite]

I don't feel like gas nees much buff? but maybe that's a tdm take

[unkempt moss]

I think doing %current health would make it strong on full health but never kill.

[serene glade]

It's more so to counteract fire getting an anti heal to still have a reason to pick gas

Embark is really good about buffing something and touching nothing else

[chilly granite]

40 + 10% current health is interesting

I do feel like gas is too easy to walk out of right now, and this would both help that and make it slightly less punishing to stand in gas

[unkempt moss]

I think doing like 15% current health would be really strong.

Or ramping %. I'd have to deal with numbers and thats not really my thing. Im more of the fix the game with cool ideas and let the bean counters sort it out.

[chilly granite]

gas mine stall is too strong right now, he says having lost his game of triple light cashout to a gas mine killing both his teammates as they attemed to steal instead of reivivng him, so 15% current health with no fixed damage sounds great

gas mine requiring a finish blow would also make a damaging gas explosion more intersting

[unkempt moss]

True

[serene glade]

With fire tho being prominent gas stall can be countered more often, then gas mines would run smoke to protect gas (I think smoke has priority over fire, unsure if interaction) which would be 2 slots already. Mediums then be like "guess I'll slap a defib on with it"

[unkempt moss]

Oh brother. Here we go. Defib is fine.

[serene glade]

Defib be used every season "it's not that good bro"

[unkempt moss]

Heavy is used every season dumbass. Does that mean heavy is broken?

[serene glade]

Ah troo

[chilly granite]

somewhat yes heavy is broken

[serene glade]

Heavy is normally broken every season from the gadgets of the other classes sustaining them. Then heavy gets a nerf

[unkempt moss]

Oh brother. Here we go. Heavy is fine.

[chilly granite]

heavy is mostly fine

[unkempt moss]

Heavy players cant help their big brains and skill, bud. We're just naturally built this way.

[muted condor]

Did someone mention defib?

Have I ever told you all how much I hate defib?

[unkempt moss]

Oh no. He's been awakened.

[muted condor]

I would be fine with them add a .50 semi auto sniper to heavy that can destroy walls and replace spin with a throw on spear if they removed defib

I would even be fine with giving heavy a jet pack as well if I never had to see defib again

[unkempt moss]

Wow. I need defib out immediately if this is the case.

Finally get my flamethrower thrust upgrade on m2

[muted condor]

I would let them bring back stun gun

[serene glade]

Relax

[unkempt moss]

Easy now

[serene glade]

Your hatred is blinding you

[muted condor]

I would let them make the pike meta all over again

Hell I’d go for pre nerf Cerb and model at the same time

[chilly granite]

bruh but it's crazy that theres a rounding error on the pyro nade

[muted condor]

Silver 3

[unkempt moss]

ITS ENOUGH SLICES

[serene glade]

Me after my 6th slice of pizza

[unkempt moss]

Its never enough

[muted condor]

Me after curb stomping 6 sword lights in QC with a mini gun

[unkempt moss]

Oh boy. This guy is fiery today.

[serene glade]

When is fung gay city getting removed from the game?

[chilly granite]

Btw I'm measuring pyro nade at 38dps

[muted condor]

Bro using pyro nade

Laugh at this troglodyte

[chilly granite]

it's for testing lol

[unkempt moss]

It's a cool nade...

[chilly granite]

measured at 7 post-fire ticks

[sand monolith]

I actually don’t disagree with this considering the only way Cerberus is ever balanced on medium is when it’s purely defensive anti dive and has 1 total playstyle

Also I pretty much exclusively talk about balancing and game/class design here I just stopped around season 6 cause it got tiring

[unkempt moss]

It's reaching that point again tbh. We're having to come up with more and more wild ideas to talk about here or just purely off topic.

[muted condor]

This is general chat 2.0 tho

[unkempt moss]

Thats why I throw ideas out there and see what people think. Its something. Some I believe would fix the game, some I think are interesting, some are purely incendiary.

[sand monolith]

On god everyone should agree on removing a knockout round from ranked

[unkempt moss]

WepsNgadg is the best channel on the discord and its not close.

[muted condor]

Getting a Catter reaction is the true end game

[unkempt moss]

I farm those so easy tbh.

[sand monolith]

How it feels talking about finals balance all day

[muted condor]

Mfs will talk about balancing the game more than playing it (I am mfs)

[unkempt moss]

If they do this, give me back my 3rd knockout round for casual.

[unkempt moss]

Sad thing is the discord and shit posting is more fun than the game a lot of the time.

[sand monolith]

I’d also like if they hosted like a 10 round tournament at a specific time once a week or every other week

[muted condor]

Real

[chilly granite]

ok so burn dps does 5/5/5/6 damage

[unkempt moss]

This would be cool. I think they need to give the community tournament control kinda like rocket league. Say we wanted to run a GOUF patch tournament just for the boys of wepsNgadg. Let me fully customize weapons and loadouts like the LTMs and run tournaments.

A big tournament like that would be so awesome. Just go in for like a 2 hour slobberknocker. Could even do like special rewards for it.

[serene glade]

we should let online tournaments and esports kill locals

[unkempt moss]

Way ahead of you champ.

[serene glade]

thank you capcom, thank you, thank you thank you

[unkempt moss]

Fighting games are saved this early spring anyway. Look forward to it.

[chilly granite]

pyro nade dps is 20, with burn dps being 15.75

someone come help me test the flamethrower

afterburn is 6 ticks or two seconsd on the pyro nade

[muted condor]

Esports on its way to kill all the fun and casual sides of another game. I love devs selling out

[unkempt moss]

Should have bought more cosmetics

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss there seems to be a 0.23s delay before burn is applied

[unkempt moss]

Would that explain why the ignite doesnt happen sometimes?

[chilly granite]

yes

actually, I think it's 0.33 and there's a 100ms delay before the non-burn damage is applied from pyro naee

but that's hypothesis and would require further testing

[unkempt moss]

Youre doing God's work, bud.

[chilly granite]

it's 233 ms/14 frames at 60fps after the first damage frame of the non-burn damage

[unkempt moss]

Im not a tech guy. Is this run off of the tick rate of the servers?

[chilly granite]

tick rate of the servers shoulnd't be too relevent becasue it can decide in the gaps kinda

[unkempt moss]

Okay.

[chilly granite]

but I'm not an expert

[unkempt moss]

What is the tick rate of the servers btw

[serene glade]

3

[indigo nexus]

It’s dynamic

I think it runs on a “main” tick rate of 30-32hz, and then sends as much extra info as possible at no fixed rate

[chilly granite]

no clue haha

anyway, the natural damage rate of the burn is 0.33s, so it seems likely to me that the burn starts 0.33s after you walk into fire, and the reason it's only 0.233s is because the non-burn(stand in fire) damage start 100ms after you walk into a pyro nade

[unkempt moss]

Is there actually a difference between ranked and casual servers? I remember reading that a long time ago.

[indigo nexus]

In the practice range you get like 110 incoming packets per second, with ~30-32 of them being larger and coming in at a more consistent rate. But I did not test this extensively under different scenarios

[chilly granite]

I want to update the wiki but I don't want to register lol

[indigo nexus]

For flamethrower I think burn starts to damage on the moment of the hit

[unkempt moss]

Youre a wepsNgadg poster. Its your job to correct the wiki.

[unkempt moss]

Would higher rate servers affect the perceived experience of players?

[indigo nexus]

I don’t think it would make a big difference but yes, it would make some difference

I think gamers tend to overvalue its importance, unless it’s really low it’s a minor component of the latency issues you’ll notice

[unkempt moss]

So what would the best way be to fix the problems with the finals? Because there does seem to be some issue with the net play.

[chilly granite]

hot take they should self host rather than using aws

[indigo nexus]

Some of the problems seem to be caused by bugs, but more generally speaking I don’t think things could get a lot better without the game being more popular

[unkempt moss]

Kind of a catch 22 there.

[indigo nexus]

Being able to matchmake physically close players together to a greater extent would be the single biggest possible improvement

[chilly granite]

since the game has a small and fairly consistent playerbase it'd probably be way cheaper to build out to self host for 30k concurrent players than using aws

[unkempt moss]

This makes a lot of sense.

[indigo nexus]

There are some other network issues which some people experience at some times, but as I’m not a network engineer I only vaguely know what’s going on there and I don’t know that there’s much embark can do about any of that

[kindred gorge]

cluster grenade would be a cool gadget

[unkempt moss]

Fair. I'm even less savvy than you so thanks for the info

[indigo nexus]

Someone highlighted a bug recently where their connection to a server appeared to be handled differently based on which account they were signed into, which sounds unbelievable but if their words are to be trusted seemed quite evidenced. No clue what’s going on there

[chilly granite]

and if they had selfhosted enough servers for 30k players, then even during peak hours, you'd get basically dedicated servers per match unless there was a big player spike

and the greatest benefit of all: when aws shits the bed, they can make the arc raiders lancher tell people to play the finals instead since it's self hosted and wont break

[unkempt moss]

Handled differently how?

[indigo nexus]

I would generally trust the moneymaking corporation to determine the cheaper route but to be fair I don’t know much about hosting costs

[chilly granite]

aws is cheaper for game launches always becuase you dont wanna have to build out enoguh servers for 500k people and then not use them

[unkempt moss]

One thing I think doesnt help with the lack of updates and stuff. I think a lot of people hoped Arc going nuclear would benefit the finals. From the outside looking in, I think theres a lot of frustration there.

[indigo nexus]

On one, they’d sometimes have ping spikes of 400-1600ms while playing, which they showed measurements of. Which is crazy, because they were measuring the latency to the server in cmd. But they seemed adamant that the issue was very reproducible

[chilly granite]

now the plaerbase has stabilized it's almost certain that self host would b cheapr, the problem is that they don't have the infrastructure set up so it would require a lot of time and investment to adapt their infra

[indigo nexus]

Well it’s not too late for an indirect benefit, we’ve been told they’ve been expanding their teams for both games over the past couple of months. Could help with the communities content cries.

[chilly granite]

arc raiders money will give embark enough capital to build out the few servers needed for the finals, and having the servers bought then means that the upkeep cost of the finals is just keeping the lights on pretty much

that means that finals becomes way more profitable overnight

[indigo nexus]

And as for reliability… in the past few months AWS has had bad luck on outages, but is there reason to believe their own solution would be more reliable? I don’t know much about the topic, though I am under the impression that a big part of AWS’s appeal is that it’s considered reliable.

[unkempt moss]

Lotta dosh backing AWS

[chilly granite]

for a game like the finals, i feel like being differently reliable is better than being more reliable lol

if aws goes down, then a lot of gamers will be looking for games that are available

and I don't think it's that hard to maintain very good reliablility on self hosted, but there is a degree where expertise and familiarity and good implemenation make a big difference

aws is reliable, scalable and expensive

building out your own can be reliable and is high capital cost but low cost of ownership, and not highly scalable

[indigo nexus]

Fair point, kinda… I’m not sure that would realistically generate significant inflow though, since not many gamers who don’t already play the game would look at it as a fallback, and a significantly worse reliability could lead to the community getting quite upset. But since I have almost no idea how strong those factors would be, it’s up in the air in my mind.

[chilly granite]

valve just does scheduled maintaince every tuesday at midnight, and otherwise has basically perfect uptime

it's technically less uptime than aws but it's way better expereince

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. I see a lot of people complaining about it though, I think a large majority of gamers don’t know that it’s scheduled by valve and will just blame devs

[chilly granite]

I mean that's mostly a communication issue, it wouldn't be that hard for valve to add a notification that it was scheduled maintaince

idk why they don't tbh lmao

[indigo nexus]

Fair enough, an in game notification would suffice. Though people would surely start asking for a provider switch after they saw it :p

[chilly granite]

I don't think so if it's brief enough, and doubly so if server quality improves

[unkempt moss]

I'd gladly trade an hour on Tuesday night at 3am if it makes things feel better

[chilly granite]

most of the time the valve server maintaince is less than 15mins