💣┇weapons-gadgets

[dapper umbra]

No wonder your drips are fire, you’re literally a talented artist, even made many tf2 drip items😭

[analog pewter]

i wish this game had a workshop, I'd love to make clothing for it

[round trench]

Fr

[spring yacht]

@glad spade #👂┇game-feedback message

Solid ways to counter melee players as medium player imo is probably either dematting the floor infront of the melee user or deploying a jumppad infront of them so they launch away from you

[tidal urchin]

fcar shoots marshmallows.. can you not make it at least respectable again..

[narrow solar]

revert v9s

[simple snow]

Gimme a good sword loadout

[unkempt moss]

I'd probably throw sword in the loadout. If I wanted to get crazy and very very unique I'd go dash.

[hardy dust]

Which is super efficient, but you only use it for one thing

Instant 300 hp to tank damage

There really isn't much else you use it for

You can use it in basically any scenario where you're fighting someone, but it does the same thing super efficiently every time

[compact tundra]

Are you new to sword?

[hardy dust]

Dash, gateway, goo, h+(if you want more support light), vanish and frag are decent, nullifier can do work, breach is also a good pick if you think your teammates aren't gonna help defend cashout well

[eager wasp]

breach so underrated

[serene glade]

charges or drill

[hardy dust]

Charges

Drill is aight but I wouldnt run it with sword

[serene glade]

yeah i agree. gives light access to c4 stall lite

[hardy dust]

Breach is hella slept on for soloq

Its so great being able to stall without relying on teammates

And with sword you can't really pressure a cashout steal from range

[serene glade]

causes a cluster as well with the debris and drop letting sword kinda tee off or at the very least pick off someone on the drop and reset the situation or just clean up

does the left click multi hit or no? i think i know daggers does

[hardy dust]

Yes

[sand monolith]

@hardy dust FUCK YOU!!!!!!!

[hardy dust]

All melee have multihit on m1 iirc

[sand monolith]

sorry my bad guys

[hardy dust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1406666576794751046/1406691518953291856/durrio_blink.gif

[sand monolith]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G8kqKYbbMAQxu__.gif

[serene glade]

sledge i dont think does, idk about riot as well

[hardy dust]

Im 99% sure it does but it basically never happens

Unless they removed it, it should still have multihit

[serene glade]

ah yeah the right click does

[unkempt moss]

Do you think breach drill being able to be set off remotely could make it better?

[eager wasp]

still incredibly niche and not very useful tbh

[oblique crypt]

I use Sword, Grapple, Gateway, Tracking dart, and healing Emitter. I have a more support play style though.

[hardy dust]

Quite a bit, although it would make breach charges a lot weaker

[serene glade]

i just think its a weird add for medium. maybe it was like their attempt at like vanish bomb on medium. where they can have a "2nd spec" instead of running demat

[hardy dust]

Not strong enough to become meta, since light has strong gadgets and c4 exists, but it would just fill the role breach charge has

Wait not im stupid

I thought you were talking abt thermal bore for some reason

[sand monolith]

Remote breach charge would be meta cause heavy could take a gadget instead of c4

[hardy dust]

Id imagine something like defib, jumppad, breach and rpg, dome/goo, lockbolt (or some other strong gadget) would end up as meta

Heavy would get a flex slot instead of medium

[sand monolith]

Yeah lock bolt or even anti grav to throw after a drop

[unkempt moss]

I thought heavy used C4 for damage

[hardy dust]

Barely

Primary use is to stall. Damage is a lot more niche

Heavy has rpg for damage

[unkempt moss]

What if we swapped breach charge for C4 between H and L?

[sand monolith]

Wouldn’t do anything

L doesn’t take breach cause it isn’t worth it over L gadgets

[hardy dust]

Its the same gadget basically. Light just has stronger gadgets

[unkempt moss]

Its more destruction for the destruction class

[sand monolith]

Hot take potentially but I think if you want to fix drops you should just put a range limit on the c4/breach clacker

[unkempt moss]

I just want a C4 that's more useful for what I like it for.

[sand monolith]

What do you use it for

[unkempt moss]

Destruction and stall

So having more uses would be nice.

[sand monolith]

Well it’s already like triple S tier for stalling

Hard to make it better for destruction without making stalling even stronger

[unkempt moss]

I just want heavy to be stronger.

Gotta advocate for my people.

[hardy dust]

Discussing balance with gooking 💔

[sand monolith]

Noticing this

[unkempt moss]

My bad. I'll get Bow User in here.

[sand monolith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/945807805418450984/1449882250605887528/G7_d5BpbsAAI93e.gif

[unkempt moss]

I got dunked on?

[unkempt moss]

So no to breach on heavy. What if Vanish went to medium?

[unkempt moss]

I'd like to see zipline go to heavy. But the consensus from the green names is always a no. But I think its a vulnerable enough traversal tool that it could be punished.

And it could free up a slot for medium by shifting some movement to heavy.

[eager wasp]

its not that punished on medium, still a great pick, putting that on heavy would eliminate the need to as much teamwork considering they can just move themselves around

[unkempt moss]

I'm just trying to think of ways to free up some of mediums slots.

I guess I thought the team work would just shift to the heavy helping the team move around.

And alleviate some issue with team building in lower elo. We took a trip down to low silver recently and the lack of movement mediums down there is suffering.

[eager wasp]

that would just cause imo a hhl meta or somethin, mediums are starting to phase out a bit

HHH is already pretty prominent atleast from what ive seen in the casual side of things

[spring spear]

giving heavy so much movement would effectively make every other build near useless at high level
you'd only be running a light or a medium for the heals and defib

[unkempt moss]

Yeah I figured the high elo would ruin it

Unfortunate. Top roping charge and slam with it would be fun

[sudden pewter]

MeWOW

I had my reservations about giving the P90 some SCHMEAT for its eclipse shade skin but it's grown on me

[analog pewter]

What if the APS could be used to destroy mines and other deployed traps and explosives without triggering them

[indigo nexus]

#👂┇game-feedback message

If I wasn’t on cooldown I would reply to this with https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1427256238651084895/1456327279067267152/caption.gif

I would like to use that quote on a stranger irl at some point. That one woman in my town who talks super aggressively to her children would be a good target, however it would be a lot of work for the situation to arise

[muted condor]

Catter ah post

[spark helm]

that should be a flying thing and not a deployable one

[upper pelican]

heavy need burst gun or smth

Or move pike to heavy ts cool also

[cerulean furnace]

That's the thing tho no? Medium and Light have no need for Heavy taking care of movement, they already got the tools for that

The reason Heavy isn't completely dominating the entire time is because of their lack of movement, so a Medium or Light providing that for them is good balance. Same as Heavy giving shields/Survivability to the other 2 and area control

[wooden prawn]

I found a bug where the inspect music doesn't stop playing for the sledgehammer guitar skin. Even after I respawn. 😂

Someone help. It won't stop.

EVEN IN A NEW ROUND.

[spice cobalt]

there's only one solution

https://tenor.com/view/metal-handbanging-headbang-gif-11577909

[wooden prawn]

Even when I died I could tell directionally it was playing where I died 😂

[indigo nexus]

🥲

[restive plover]

Hello.
I did some testing but can someone confirm that Winch + SledgeLeftClick + Qm is not a guaranteed combo?
Thank you.

[indigo nexus]

I think that this is true but have not proven it with optimal timing

[restive plover]

Can you elaborate on "optimal timing"?

[indigo nexus]

timing the swing and quick melee optimally

would probably need to tune a macro to confirm it

[restive plover]

I think if a macro is needed, even if we could prove the combo can still be guaranteed it would be fully unreliable.

[chilly granite]

Give it a launcher like therrmite and itll be probably too good

I think the right change is just to make it way faster

[chilly granite]

Giving heavy rocket and nade jumping via Rpg and mgl is the correct answer

[chilly granite]

Gateway should either be a spec for light or a medium gadget hot take

[chilly granite]

Amazing take I love this

[eager wasp]

crazy take

[chilly granite]

Hehehehe

[spark helm]

did you forget the existence of data reshaper?

[chilly granite]

I mean, I'm anti-gateway, I think it's op and cannibalises grapple

[chilly granite]

Yes, has anyone remembered it?

Data reshaper probably needs a fake buff to make people try it

[spark helm]

they would do the same thing

[spark helm]

what you mean?

[indigo nexus]

if it previewed canister transformations, it'd be easier to pick up.

[spark helm]

like a wheel you can choose which to take

[indigo nexus]

that would be a real buff, I thought just showing you what they would turn into next.

[chilly granite]

You can change some stats that don't practically change the power of a gadget and that can encourage people to try it out, and then it can become meta just from people experiencing it

But gateway is insanely op and I'm not ok with it, it's directly better than grapple

[indigo nexus]

not directly for sure. You can't gateway every 8.5 seconds

being able to leave and re-enter a fight with grapple over longer distances before they can regen their health is great

[chilly granite]

But you can't grapple while aiming at the enemy either

And you can't instantly break line of sight with grapple

[indigo nexus]

this confuses me. You can't shoot enemies while using a gateway either

[chilly granite]

You can put it down ahead of time and then you can

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, it has advantages. It's just not a directly better grapple

[indigo nexus]

when you go through / have gone through you won't be shooting at them any more 🤔

[chilly granite]

The uptime of gateway is substantial better than grapple, grapple is one use every 8.5s and gateway is a bunch of uses for 20s and then none for 20s

[chilly granite]

You can put two down beside each other and use it as an evasive dash, nobody does because it's inefficient but it's a technique that is viable with it that can't be done via grapple

[vocal stone]

What if heavy could throw his teammate light like a ball? (Hulk & wolverine style)

[indigo nexus]

but if you take that usage assumption you then have to factor that it's between the same two points, where any player can follow you.

[sonic pike]

I think that's called a fastball special

[indigo nexus]

Fair, though I've not seen a single person do that. Must be hard to track with that going on.

[chilly granite]

Meanwhile grapple takes time to accelerate my character in which they can track me perfectly and oh wait I'm already dead they don't even need to chase

[chilly granite]

To be fair the last time I tried I griefed my aim worse than his but a better player can abuse it for sure

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, but usually people can't track it well and you should only be exposed to them briefly. Using a gateway more quickly requires both points to have been placed in advance, which is limiting.

[chilly granite]

Yes, that is a small disadvantage, but the ability for the second point to be absolutely anywhere in a 50m radius makes it so much more powerful I don't think it's a real disadvantage

It's why I don't like using it because that's more planning than my tiny ADHD addled brain can comprehend but I also considered positioning without grapple hook more complex than my tiny ADHD addled brain can comprehend so this is a skill issue

[indigo nexus]

I'm not saying it isn't a really good gadget, 'cause it is. But there are a ton of situations where I would take a grapple over gateway, which makes it not a plain upgrade imo.

if they swapped them around so gateway was a spec, I think I would use it less than I use grapple.

[chilly granite]

I mean, grapple is way more fun? Hehehe

And grapple will transport you further faster

But as a gadget, gateway+dash, does 90% of grapple+gateway while also being way more powerful in most of those situations

Grapple is essential for some play styles though

[chilly granite]

Same, but I'm pretty sure gateway would still be pro meta

[indigo nexus]

well, that would be because gateway + grapple is a bit of an antisynergy as they enroach on each other's territory significantly.

[indigo nexus]

I'll give you that. I'm not sure about the other 99.5% of the audience.

[chilly granite]

The reason for that comparison is because it's more favourable to grapple lol, gateway + dash is flat better than grapple no gateway for normal loadouts and play styles

[indigo nexus]

that comparison is just unfair

unless you are implicitly considering a free slot for whatever in the grapple loadout

[chilly granite]

I think I was, let me double check

Yeah, I don't think there's any gadget that can compensate for the loss in power Vs dash gateway

Honestly I think the right answer is still gateway and you use it as an evasive dash as I suggested

Move your team, bomb the point, and it's a instant evade or blink

Like you can stall by throwing a red or green barrel into a gateway making breach charge and thermal questionably better

Nullifier is better defensively but gateway blink can help you win a fight where null just delays it

If you're not playing super close to team (grapple, considering skipping gateway) then you're probably skipping h+, but then you're running what? Sonar glitch invis bomb? Glitch vortex thermal bore? These don't seem more powerful than glitch gateway invis or glitch gateway flash, glitch gateway null

Or even glitch gateway breach if you want crazy stall

Gateway is a better grapple with less counterplay than grapple and should be a spec 100%

If it's a spec it should last less time and have better uptime though, maybe 7/10

Actually no, 14/20

Playing around a gateway that only lasts 7s and you have to re-up it would be annoying probably

[chilly granite]

Man that sounds even more op

Gateway sucks just nerf it into the ground

[wide stratus]

Delete every weapon and turn it into a martial arts game

[compact tundra]

Uhm how about we don't

[restive plover]

unfortunately melee is ass too

[wide stratus]

No not melee

Martial arts

[chilly granite]

How do you solve gateway cannabalising grapple

[chilly granite]

Light gets karate medium gets boxing heavy gets sumo

[wide stratus]

Yes

[compact tundra]

It really doesn't tho, they serve two very distinct purposes. Grapple is a quick to use getaway and reposition tool that lets you sling yourself across the map at whim, while the gateways requires prior setup and has a Max limit of 50m, and is mostly used steal vaults and reposition your team, or you can place the gateway prior to combat for a somewhat slower escape option that your enemies can still chase you through

If anything gateway cannibalizes zipline

[chilly granite]

Yeah that's a bigger problem right now, makes medium the most replaceable class

Gateway gives dash too much easy vertical mobility though IMHO, you lose so much choosing grapple over dash in fights and indoor mobility, dash being able to take gateway for vertical mobility is bullying

And gateway is a better reposition and escape tool than grapple, but grapple is better overall mobility

And once your playing around a vault or cashbox, gateway is just better since flat mobility isn't as useful as being able to relocate barrels, nades, vaults, with no line of sight

Gateway is a better escape because it breaks line of sight giving you a chance to hide before they can catch up where grapple doesn't break line of sight, you need to manually break line of sight to use grapple ( walk behind cover or some such)

If you grapple exposed usually you just die lol

[compact tundra]

I don't think medium is replaceable by any means, I just think the only thing in the game that has an argument for being cannibalized by gateway is zipline, tho I don't even think that's a strong argument. And being killed mid grapple either means you're against people with really good aim or your just grappling poorly cause I usually make a clean getaway with grapple as where gateway just takes too long to come out and I'm usually dead by the time it's placed, not to mention that usually the gateway is usually pre-placed close to the cash box so you can defend better, so even if you do escape for it now they have an easy route to the cash box. I just don't really think gateway is what's cannibalizing grapple, it's more that grapple is underpowered compared to dash

[chilly granite]

I mean a cashbox gateway is not an escape gateway

Firstly why do you think that Zipline isn't cannibalized by gateway?

[compact tundra]

They serve two different purposes and have different strengths. Gateway is a temporary placeable that lets you teleport teammates from one point that you place down to another point that you place down. While zipline is something you place down and it automatically extends to a second location that you're looking at that allows your team to move back and forth as many times as they choose until you place another

[chilly granite]

I somewhat understand that but I think that's violated by a few things; gateway is bidirectional, lasts 20 seconds, and cutting off access once your team is in a strong position, including Zipline, is very common

[compact tundra]

Yea, gateway can't be cut off on command, zipline can, that kinda makes the argument stronger

[chilly granite]

If I saw more people using Zipline I'd be more inclined to agree with you

[compact tundra]

Eh I think ziplines biggest enemy is jump pad. Since they nerfed double movement jump has kind of just been to go to

But zipline used to be meta

[chilly granite]

I think if gateway didn't exist, zip jump pad would still be good

Because then medium offers vertical and horizontal movement for both light and heavy

Right now gateway is acting as Zipline in that scenario

[compact tundra]

I don't really think so, maybe it's be stronger but that's kinda a bad argument since its rooted in the fact that obviously zipline would be stronger if it was the only gadget that could move your whole team

[chilly granite]

Outside of arbitrary duration, Zipline is directly worse than gateway by every metric of team movement

It takes longer, the users are exposed, it requires line of sight, and it can't reach as far

*I think it can't reach as far, that might be wrong

[compact tundra]

Well one they're on different classes so that kinda changes that a bit, and two they have different strengths weaknesses and uses. And gateway can go farther when pre placed but zipline can go farther from a single point. Since gateway is limited by throw distance

Which is actually what makes the gateway pair rather well with the grappling hook. Since you can place your gateway, grapple, and then throw the other end of the gateway at the peak of your grapple

[chilly granite]

Gateways usability/quality of life is ass which is why I hate it yes

[compact tundra]

I don't really agree with that, gateway's biggest problem is remembering to use it, if you always have it in the back of your head then it's actually really helpful

[chilly granite]

The indicator is hard to see, there's no que other than the indicator slightly flashing that you're gonna break the gateway, it requires two throws and you can input queue the second throw by accident

The quality of life on gateway is fucking ass

[compact tundra]

Okay that I agree with, I wish it had a better indicator on your screen and a better indicator that it's going to break soon

[chilly granite]

If you want to change from left click to right click throw, you need to swap to weapons and swap back, because if you don't, you'll just throw both of them in the same place

[thick holly]

Gateway made me think of something. Would data Reshaper being able to reshape gateways be a good change?

[chilly granite]

I'm pretty sure

[compact tundra]

Please no

[thick holly]

Maybe only active gateways

[chilly granite]

Absolutely cooking I love you

Can't Zipline be reshaped already?

[compact tundra]

It's not an item it's a CNS glitch so it wouldn't make sense, and I already have to worry about glitch nades fucking me

[thick holly]

Ziplines can not be reshaped

[chilly granite]

Ok, now we can give an advantage to Zipline!

[compact tundra]

Huh, didn't know that one

[compact tundra]

Zipline already has that advantage, zip lines can't be glitched

[thick holly]

From what I can remember, gateway and zipline (and technically dome shield) are the only deployables that can't be reshaped

[thick holly]

But they can be destroyed very easily

[chilly granite]

Hahahah

But yeah the qol on gateway is absolutely ass

I think you mean "dome shield technically can be, but realistically can't be reshaped" but yeah

[compact tundra]

Yeah zipline is a weird one, but gateway was added as a CNS glitch, so it's not really a placeable it's a glitch in the world

[chilly granite]

Gateway should be glitchy half the time it throws you off the map

[compact tundra]

Bros just hatin now, actually fuming that gateway isn't that great in TDM

[thick holly]

Yeah I'm mainly just thinking balancing reasons. Because the only realistic way to counter a gateway is to play light. Plus it would give data Reshaper more of a reason to be used

[chilly granite]

It's good in tdm, but I hate it because of how op it is while the qol sucks, it's just not fun to use if I'm constantly having to micromanage it

[thick holly]

It was just an idea I was throwing out though, just to see what people thought

I do think data Reshaper should be a counter to goo grenade though. Reshaping goo would be SUCH a good change

[compact tundra]

Eh I already think data reshaper is already way better than people give it credit for, and I kind of like that gateways mostly just countered by lights, and honestly I think it makes sense to have data reshaper counter zipline so lights counter lights and mediums counter mediums

[chilly granite]

If the qol was good on gateway it would get nerfs as fast as the v9s because literally everyone would be using it all the time

The thing is, no casuals use gateway because it's qol is ass so it's not fun

[compact tundra]

The zip line does not need a Nerf

[thick holly]

Fair enough

What about data Reshaper being able to somewhat counter goo grenade?

[chilly granite]

That would be op

[thick holly]

Since goo is available on every class and is already very strong

[compact tundra]

That I firmly agree with. If data reshaper could reshape goo that shit would skyrocket into the meta

That would be the quickest 0 to 100 we have ever seen in the game

[thick holly]

I'm thinking maybe just one blob could be reshaped at a time, that way it can still be strong but not OP

[chilly granite]

You don't want data reshaper to work on goo because it would have to be nerfed to compensate

[compact tundra]

I agree with that just so data reshaper doesn't become a pocket dematerializer

[chilly granite]

That's a fair take

[thick holly]

Data Reshaper only has 2 charges. If it only reshaped one goo at a time, you'd have to be careful and purposeful with it

Plus with how the medium meta is (or at least what I'm told), goo grenade is a must bring. So risking taking that out for data Reshaper could be a fun meta shakeup

[chilly granite]

Ye, I thought u meant a whole wall, but per glob would be fine and make it a lot more interesting

But data reshaper like gateway is a very strong gadget that no casuals will ever touch becuser the qol is ass

Fix the qol first

[thick holly]

The main issue I see with data Reshaper (as a DR main) is that it can be situational. It's a bit too punishing to use it on barrels sometimes

[compact tundra]

Okay that one I disagree with, data reshapers quality of life is fine, I think you're confusing ease of use with quality of life

[thick holly]

Yeah data Reshaper is super easy to use, QOL is fine

[chilly granite]

Requiring research is bad quality of life, the gadget should explain what it will do clearly on the screen

[compact tundra]

It's like saying every gun has bad quality of life because those stupid damage statistic bars in the menu

[chilly granite]

Gateway should make it clear the dropped gate will disappear after 50 meters, and datareshaper should indicate what you're looking at will become

[thick holly]

There's the video that explains what it will do. If they get confused then they should watch the provided video

[chilly granite]

If I'm a casual with 30mins to play after work I hop in a tdm and see, oh this looks interesting, I should be able to equip it to load out and not be entirely confused

[proven sable]

30 mins 💔

[chilly granite]

Requiring research is bad quality of life and no ok

[thick holly]

It doesn't need research..? It just needs to be learned how to use it properly

[compact tundra]

No he's saying when you look at the data reshaper in the equipment section there's a video that shows you what it does

[chilly granite]

Now, interaction/emergent gameplay not being obvious is fine, but the direct cause and effect, should be obvious while in game

[chilly granite]

Thats in game research, that's going to data reshaper 101 class

[compact tundra]

I kind of disagree there cuz I know you're talking about not being able to see what it's going to turn into. And like the point isn't to cycle for a specific canister. The point is to turn someone's current into a chair because it's funny and gets rid of the turret

[thick holly]

I didn't look up the barrel cycle. I learned it by trial and error. Trial and error is how you learn every gadget in the game

[chilly granite]

For the gateway; the distance to your gateway should be inverted for example - it should say 50m when you're by your dropped gateway, and then 0 when you're 50m away, rather than saying 0 when you're on it, and 50 when it's gonna break

Without knowing that it breaks at 50 meters, the current UI is useless and its not going to be clear to a player who dropped one gateway why their second won't connect

[thick holly]

That one I can kind of understand. But I do think there should be some learning opportunities with gadgets by playing

[chilly granite]

There is no reason why data reshaper telling you what it will turn into is a bad thing. It's lowering the skill floor, while leaving skill ceiling unaffected

It just means that a player who hasn't used it before isn't just completely confused

[chilly granite]

There still will be because of interactions and suchlike. Stuff like reshaping an rpg will still be organically discovered by most players

[thick holly]

Yeah it would be nice, but it's not fully needed honestly

Idk, I might just not be understanding what you are saying. I honestly didn't sleep too well last night lol

[chilly granite]

It is needed for casuals and for embark to have accurate stats for their dumb stats based balancing

Right now only the nerdiest datareshaper nerds use it so it looks better than it is on stats

[thick holly]

Hold on, I'm just gunna back up to make sure we are on the same page

So it's just showing what barrel is next in the cycle, that's what you want to see?

Cuz I think I misunderstood you as saying "it should show its able to reshape stuff"

[wide stratus]

Remove every weapon and add in cheeseburger

[chilly granite]

Yeah, let me double check the current UI though

I might be misremembering it it's been a while since I've tried it

[thick holly]

Alright

Sorry the "research" part kind of threw me off to what you were actually talking about

[oblique crypt]

I use the data Reshaper a bunch, it doesn't show you what it will turn into.

[thick holly]

It's just a cycle you gotta learn. Which honestly isn't too bad

As long as you focus on "key points" in the cycle it's super easy to learn

Heal -> red
Smoke -> goo

If you focus on stuff you'll need a lot and learn what you need to reshape to get that, you learn the cycle super quick

[undone quarry]

and gas -> glitch

[chilly granite]

I undrstand that but it's barried to casusals who don't give a fuck abou the game and just want to have fun

your character his already hodling a screen, jsut change the viewmodel a lil bit so the display is more prominnent and make it show what the can turns into and all of a sudden plebs can use data reshaper without having to turn on their brain

and not just casuals, even semi-nerds who are scared off by the idea of learning

basically every gadget should be pickuppable and useable first time without the risk of accidentally griefing, but right now, you can accidentally turn a useful barrel into a useless one

[thick holly]

Yea

To be fair the main use of it is extremely easy to pick up, turning turrets and mines into plants

And in low elo where players are more likely to pick it up, turrets are common

[chilly granite]

100%

but it having literally 0 ui is just fucking stupid

[thick holly]

Honestly in lower elo I feel like most people will try reshaping barrels and realize they won't wanna waste charges on it

[chilly granite]

you assume more intelligence than low elo people have

[thick holly]

Fair

[chilly granite]

honestly it would be best if it would display current item > next item > next item

[thick holly]

I just have faith people would actually pick up stuff lol

[chilly granite]

people in low elo are low elo mostly because they aren't considering reprecussions of actions

"wasting charges" is an unfamiliar concept

triply so for tdm players because tdm resets cds when respawn and instnt respawn

this is also why gateway is op in tdm, imagine gateway with a 5s cd

it's like, 100% uptime in tdm

noobdy uses gateway in tdm becuase the UX is shit and the enemy will come to you anyway and it's not fun running away

but it's incredibly strong if you want to win tdms

[chilly granite]

but yeah, gateway and data reshaper stats are highly affected by the UX being shit

gateway is way stronger than it looks because the UX is shit so nobody can use it as effectively as if the UX was actually good, and the data reshaper is worse than the stats look because only nerds who have taken the effort to memorize it so don't need the UX are even bothering with it

people use the gateway despite the ux, and nobody uses the data reshaper becaise of the ux

[chilly pebble]

ll

[chilly granite]

On the subject of ass UX, the gravity vortex's particles aren't visible to enemies, which is misleading as hell,afaik it;'s the only gadget which has different particle effects/visual apperance to your team vs enemy team

the gravity vortex also doesn't show you the pull radius when you throw it

[serene glade]

Nobody uses data reshaper because it sucks. The UX could tuck me into bed and read me a bed time story and it's still not getting used. But it getting nerfed a couple seasons ago was hilarious

[chilly granite]

somehwat yes but also at least fixing the ui would be nice

[shell sonnet]

i dont think it really needs the nerf tho

[chilly granite]

I don't think it should be nerfed by showing particle effects to eneme,y I@m just saying that the UI is shit

the fx should probably be deleted

[shell sonnet]

why is ?? censored in game chat 😭

[indigo nexus]

you might make someone doubt themselves if you say that, and that's no good

we're all about positivity here at THE FINALS

[slow linden]

Cerberus and explosive mine my beloved

[shell hornet]

glitch and dome are both versatile, dome more so than glitch

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071067310766436372/1327328945678450779/caption.gif

[chilly granite]

who else thinks that you should get 4 gadgets

[compact tundra]

That might be too much utility per person tho, and would make medium even worse since they have the most limited number of good gadgets, tho it might buff things like data reshaper, APS turret, and glitch mines

[sudden pewter]

This dude and bad takes are like PB&J

Please stop typing

[compact tundra]

I think the problem is he hard mains 1 weapon and 1 game mode so it skews his view towards a very specific way of enjoying the game, tho I could be wrong

[sudden pewter]

Yes, anything that doesn’t compliment the way one person plays specifically needs to be changed. Given the quality of his feedback you may very well be right

[compact tundra]

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, just you gotta try to think outside of that box when coming up with ideas, cause lord knows the powershift players are the wall that sniper buffs cant break

[sudden pewter]

It’s a bad thing

Pigeonholing oneself into playing the game in a single way limits what you have access to and eventually one’s enjoyment of the game

Stupidity begets more stupidity. See the sniper players demanding they have access to irons so they don’t need to deal with the downsides of the weapon

[compact tundra]

I would agree with this take if autism wasn't such a powerful weapon, I mean we are talking about the dude who Gandhi'd this chat monologuing about bow for 32 hours straight, and he got his buffs so like that shit is a super power

[sudden pewter]

And if bow gets nerfed it affects the only way he enjoys the game, double edged sword

[compact tundra]

Fair, I know I felt that a bit with sword before switching to other weapons I enjoy

[sudden pewter]

Play 👏 Everything
Objectively the best way to enjoy the game.

[compact tundra]

I agree but I kinda wanna try his method, monologue in this chat or the main chat about sword for like 32 hours straight and see what happens, I wonder what I'd even be saying past like hour 4

[sudden pewter]

If embark has data that backs up X needs changes - it’ll be changed. Otherwise it’s an autistic schpeel 🤷‍♂️

[compact tundra]

Yes but who can say they Cory booker'd the chat for 32 hours about sword, it'd just be me. Hell no one has booker'd the chat except that man and it feels like a challenge

[serene glade]

I was called a heavy sweaty loser for suggesting actual mgl changes and feedback because the mgl is ruining his point break games. Which don't get my wrong I am a little sweaty and heavy but how'd he know my weight

[sudden pewter]

Until Embark rolls out gamemode specific balance it’ll always be an issue as some weapons just perform better in certain circumstances

The insane monumental lovecraftian sightlines offered in PowerShift makes the Sniper fucking stupid, and incontestable unless you choose to snipe yourself. PointBreak the MGL reigns because enemies are forced into certain avenues, and MGL can destroy cover along with dealing damage regardless of LoS

[muted condor]

We should beat him to death

[serene glade]

It's honestly just another embark failure to establish any sort of information/plan for the game I guess. If it was popular enough they would definitely make point break a ranked mode as we've seen with terminal attack (even tho I don't think that mode was anything more than just niche)

"I just wanna play csgo without playing csgo"

[sudden pewter]

Embarks plan:

• Gatekeep Data
• Obfuscate Server Information (Lest we learn the servers are dogshit)
• Prop up a dead ESPORTS Scene the majority of the playerbase don’t care about ||Ive no data for this but look at Overwatch||

[compact tundra]

I used terminal attack as a change of pace while solo queuing, it was pretty nice for that since it was so different than the normal game modes

[sudden pewter]

TA is doodoo feces and I’m glad it’s gone

Point Break is honestly the ultimate alternative gamemode

[serene glade]

I feel like a game mode that has to disable gadgets is a sign it shouldn't be apart of the game. I'm not hating on terminal attack tho, I'm hating on them making it the ranked mode

[compact tundra]

But TDM does the same thing

[serene glade]

Yeah

I'm a TDM hater tbh. I only find this game fun with cashout

But again I get the appeal.

[sudden pewter]

Bank It was diet TDM
TA was too different from the base game (also Light too effective)

[compact tundra]

This I agree with solidly, but the problem with removing TA is they removed content from the game to fix what exactly? Like TA wasn't popular but I still found matches rather quickly and the servers ran well so they were local, I just hate the idea of removing content to make up for a lack of players, when the lack of content is what's hurting the player base

[serene glade]

Maybe they are just creatively bankrupt and have given up

[sudden pewter]

The reason specifically for its removal was overhead. (Development cost to maintain the gamemode) Having to make sure it didn’t break every update, and even when only available in private games not enough people played it to justify keeping it in the game. - Per Embark

[compact tundra]

I still think bringing bank it back as a 3v3 mode would be stellar, it's weird strategic when player 1v1 and I think it'd be a good mix up if not treated as a diet TDM

[sudden pewter]

I hate TA on principle, but I also lament any content being removed.

[sudden pewter]

It was unfortunately treated as diet TDM (another gamemode ruined by lights)

[compact tundra]

I heavily disagree with this tho, your job is to make sure the game doesn't break and I will never understand removing shit from private game modes, hell bank it was still popular on xbox up until it was removed from private matches cause xbox players had groups and would put out looking for group post on Xbox just to play bank it

[sudden pewter]

At least with TDM proper, kills are the objective. So there isn’t any scenario where some idiot hoarded kills and never deposited

[sudden pewter]

Disagreeing with Embark? That’s a paddling.
+13 Skins for ARN
-20 damage to both sword swing and lunge

[serene glade]

what light weapon do you guys think embark will overtune next (big season changes)

[sudden pewter]

Probably the XP. It used to be objectively better than the M11. So in their efforts to differentiate them it’s fallen behind. In typical Embark fashion I suspect in their efforts to make a less popular weapon have a higher pick % (they have some stupid idea that every weapon can have equal pick %) they’ll give it the V9S treatment

[compact tundra]

Honestly I was thinking the XP as well

[sudden pewter]

Well I thought of it first

[serene glade]

the addition of the ARN basically has 3 of the same gun, so theyll probably just keep a rotation of which gun is better rather than attempt to differentiate so i would say xp as well

[compact tundra]

Nuh-uh, I couldn't type but I thought of that shit like 3 minutes before you stinky

[sudden pewter]

Because I’m the smartest and most handsome and endowed with big milky naturals and I’m good at video games and I stink good

[sudden pewter]

You didn’t even kill the DS3 tutorial boss on your first try

[serene glade]

milky naturals off in the big year of 2026, they cancelled esports for this instead

[sudden pewter]

Medium and Light finally get something more than A cups thank god

[compact tundra]

You're probably right, I literally only collected drip in elden ring and that's the only souls like I've ever played, but your still stinky

[compact tundra]

Honestly I think the fix is easy
Nerf the ARNs range a bit and make the XP the defacto ranged smg. Then M11 has the short range, XP has the long range, and ARN is the most versatile

[sudden pewter]

Bad Light 👏
Stinky Light 👏
ARN Long Range
XP Mid Range
M11 Close Range

[compact tundra]

I just don't see a need for a fixed medium range weapon, especially when said long range weapon also has amazing versatility

[sudden pewter]

The only issue with having dedicated range automatics is their use cases varying wildly depending on matchups and maps

ARN can plink up to 30m just as well as it can at 10m
But the M11 is basically worthless at 30m so why even bother unless I’m diving

[compact tundra]

I actually played a ranked game this morning where they had two M11's playing dive with a nasty (might have been cheating) repeater camping roofs that'd pick us off. We made it to head to head against them but lost there. The reason I'm throwing out maybe cheating is cause every hip shot they fired hit on head in the death cam.

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been happy to only meet maybe 3(?) fairly obvious cheaters in my 300 or so hours. No doubt I’ll meet more as I start playing ranked

[compact tundra]

I have the problem of never paying attention so I never notice them. But my friend is good at catching them

[serene glade]

ive gotten at least like 10-15 successful cheater reports over my time of playing. when the xp and also the lh1 was insanely broken that was a time i noticed a ton. the removal of thermal vision has also been nice because now when im getting melted through smoke i can just assume its a cheater and not someone throwing on thermal vision through it

im gonna download aimhacks and only use it with sledgehammer. theyll never suspect a thing

[compact tundra]

Based cheating

[sudden pewter]

Thermals Mentioned: Insert the “where thermal” or “when thermal” because I need it back so I can spam smokes and be the only one capable of seeing through it which totally isn’t bad design or annoying at all

[serene glade]

0 counterplay gadget, "me need dat back"

[compact tundra]

I liked thermal cause when I go to my grandparents and have to play on their shit ass TV it was good for being able to see people

[serene glade]

its like the thing with nullifier, its still insanely strong, probably even better. but they want their free kill no counterplay gadget back

[compact tundra]

Also I got this fucking nasty winch + lockbolt kill on TDM yesterday

[sudden pewter]

Same shit when stun was reworked

[compact tundra]

Bro that thing used to have me chimping out on sword cause it was literally a free kill button other lights had, on top of being able to dash away from me

[muted condor]

I want to argue about something

[serene glade]

it made double barrel even more brainless which is funny to me

[compact tundra]

Let's give all classes 4 gadget slots so I can run dome, RPG, lockbolt, and C4 on my flamethrower heavy. Trust it'll be very balanced

[muted condor]

That’s a great idea. Now I can run defib, goo grenade, jump pad, and zip line

[serene glade]

defib isnt good, its actually overhated and not versatile bud, dont run that apparently

[muted condor]

Genuinely we should string that guy up

[sudden pewter]

Let’s rebalance the entire game around the way I want to play:

• Minigun now deals more demolition damage and mows through buildings like ranged sledge
• No other automatic can kill the minigun with headshots faster than it can kill them with bodyshots

[muted condor]

I don’t care if it’s good or bad it’s fucking annoying to have on your team and to fight

Fuck defib

[sudden pewter]

Sandvich is put into the game 1:1 from TF2.
4s eating
+300hp

[serene glade]

i ran some medium yesterday for the first time in a while to test it out. its crazy i somehow i got insane value out of it. 10 kills with 6 revives in a round. its almost like its strong to be able to shoot while reviving a teammate

[chilly granite]

I play point break, quick cash and tdm, but majority tdm, but I've been trying more ranked too

I've tried other classes and weapons too

[muted condor]

That actually explains literally everything about this guy

[stoic garden]

⛹🏿‍♂️ i play qc and cashout equally

[compact tundra]

I mostly play head to head but I play ranked with my friend and I play point break pretty consistently, most other game modes I just swap to every once in a while for funnzies

[serene glade]

i almost exclusively play ranked and run dumb shit to make my teammates angry

[compact tundra]

Peak mgl main

[serene glade]

people just give up round start when they see it, its pretty based

[muted condor]

I primarily play WT

[compact tundra]

That's the whole game now bud, it's acthually called cashout 🤓

[serene glade]

i would play WT if the servers were better. i wouldnt spam ranked if i didnt hear from somewhere that they are slightly better than casual mode servers

[muted condor]

What if I fucking skin you alive how does that sound

[compact tundra]

Get your freak on king

[sudden pewter]

What if we played ranked

Sorry I couldn’t play yesterday my car shit the bed and I had to walk it home

[compact tundra]

Also I've kinda been thinking about hosting a "local" tournament using private matches and my friend was supportive so how do you guys think that'd logistically work. Cause I'm pretty interested in the idea given I play this game a lot and have a twitch account to steam commentary from

[compact tundra]

Oh god that sounds awful dude, you know what's wrong with it?

[sudden pewter]

Engine Variable Valve fucks with the crankshaft so my RPM is limited

Every time I turn the engine on I hear a different noise, probably not safe to drive

[muted condor]

I would but you’re to shy to bounce on it

[sudden pewter]

Going to tow it to a mechanic today, if they can’t fix it then it goes to the dealership for them to work on, hopefully not too expensive as daddy is saving up for a Steam Frame

[muted condor]

I’m planning on selling my car in the spring

[sudden pewter]

I’m playing Kovaaks every day bro I’d be doing it crazy style

I need to stop gorilla gripping my fucking mouse

[muted condor]

Always asking when the crazy style never how was style crazy style 😔

[compact tundra]

M&K is so weird to me, like I understand gripping it hard is a problem but I just move my funny stick and it works

[sudden pewter]

That’s because you’re a console peasant and not familiar with the struggles of nobility

[compact tundra]

Na mobility is so good on controller, I just can't aim worth shit so I just get better at everything but aiming

[muted condor]

I’m a console princess thank you very much 💅 ✨

[sudden pewter]

Kovaaks will make me a god. I just need to stop gorking my mork till I waagh and drink my gamer supplements like a good boye as I hit the gamer gym

[compact tundra]

I always forget your on console

I do the opposite, I just go "damn aiming is hard, how about I just get fucking nasty with my gadgets and specs and just let the flamethrower aim for me"

[sudden pewter]

I don’t use flamethrower for moral reasons. My aim will improve or I will die

Hell sometimes I play TDM and exclusively fight with movement/weapons and completely forgo gadgets

[compact tundra]

I don't think I'd be nearly as good if I didn't fucking grind out movement shit, half the shit I get away with is cause my heavy can keep up with lights if they aren't has versed in movement as me

[muted condor]

Play controller on 40 sensitivity
Miss 70% of my shots
Have two revived
Blame the light team mate for the loss
Slaaaaaaay

[sudden pewter]

Movement is survival, which is why suggestions involving giving Heavy movement tools are stupid and they should be keelhauled

[compact tundra]

Based strat, go bottom board with 2 revives and scream at your teammates over the mic for being trash

[muted condor]

Always

[compact tundra]

Oh absolutely, a heavy with good movement is easily as fast as a normal light. Giving heavy movement would break the game

[chilly granite]

to be fair heavy's sprint speed probably needs a small nerf to make heavy more dependant on zipline/jumppad/gateway

but I stand by heavy being able to use rpg to rocket jump, the cooldown and utility denial is worth it

[serene glade]

This guy never not misses

[muted condor]

Joking aside I actually have my sensitivity almost maxed out and I’m top dragging 7/10 rounds

[muted condor]

Neva spit yo shit twin

[chilly granite]

most of the speed difference you feel is from height difference, it's like sitting in a truck vs a sports car

I also think that at least heavy and medium should be the same height

or at least a more similar height

[compact tundra]

Both these ideas are kinda bad to me. Heavy is already the slowest class and they don't have the raw health pool to justify making them a full slow tank, and adding movement to what is already one of heavies best gadgets is just a bad idea. One it gives heavies more mobility which is bad, and Two it makes heavy way more dependent on a gadget that's already got a reply high pick rate

[chilly granite]

I also think heavy needs more hp

mostly I just want heavies to waste their rpg on themselves rather than me 🙂

[compact tundra]

Heavies fine where they are, I don't see a reason on changing them into a full tank in a chaotic movement base game

[chilly granite]

I do think there should be a high risk high reward movement gadget for heavy, not a zero cost movement gadget thoguh

[muted condor]

Bro is burning water

[chilly granite]

sledge rpg market gardening

are u guys serously telling me you don't want sledge rpg market gardening in the finals?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, let Heavies rocket jump, adjust the self damage accordingly, and now we can have JiHaad Heavies dealing max damage to their enemies and using the blast to safely make space. An excellent maneuver Light main.

[chilly granite]

it might make heavy fun GASP SHOCK HORROR NO WE CANT LET HEAVY BE ENJOYABLE TO PLAY

[sudden pewter]

There it is 🎉
You hate my dogshit take because it’ll be fun!!

In other news: Water makes things wet.

[chilly granite]

alright give me a fun loadout for heavy and I'll try it

[muted condor]

Mini gun

[chilly granite]

something that doesn't require vast deals of brainpower please

[wild zenith]

imo, heavy sprint should have the same max speed as medium, but have a like 2-3 second acceleration period

[chilly granite]

THat's a good take

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/tish-bri-gif-8989407742432775903

[chilly granite]

I think that's a better way to resolve the problem of heavy feeling both too fast and too slow right now

pray for me

[sudden pewter]

“Too fast” 🤯

We aren’t playing the same game

[chilly granite]

play pre-buff bow and you'll see what i mean

the draw makes you slower than a heavy, and the draw time before meant even if you tap fired the bow, a heavy would catch up to you

[muted condor]

Why are you so close to the heavy

[chilly granite]

tdm map smol

[muted condor]

Does he know the tech?

[chilly granite]

I do not know any tech, please assume by brain is the size of a pea

[sudden pewter]

“Play this specific weapon with a mechanic that slows you down and you’ll realize Heavy is too fast” has got to be one of the statements ever made

https://tenor.com/view/cat-worm-cat-worm-catworm-ai-generated-gif-11758626355945811640

[chilly granite]

hehehe

[chilly granite]

alright what's the next suggestion on a fun weapon? minigun ain't it

oh I should try using charge and slam maybe that would help

[sudden pewter]

The light is too weak to manage our weaponry.

[chilly granite]

maybe this is fun if you're zoooted off the face of the earth

[boreal garden]

That and try exclusively using the left click to wind up instead of right click on most situations, makes it more fun to play that way imo

[chilly granite]

yeah I just tried that before I saw your message and that was a lot better

I still haven't used charge and slam

[sudden pewter]

I prefer Mesh to C&S because you can stall your death, letting your buddies punish

[chilly granite]

I used to use mesh but 1) I'm bad at it and 2) I'm dying because I@m out of position rather than i'm losing aim duel

I only tried bow mid season 8 btw

[sudden pewter]

That’s just the Minigun tbh. Feast or Famine

[chilly granite]

egh I hate the minigun

[stoic garden]

does the lobby have bow? dont play minigun
does the lobby have repeater? dont play minigun
does the lobby have bfr? dont play minigun

[chilly granite]

feels way too dependant on actually positioning well

[sudden pewter]

Forgot revolver
And LH1

[analog pewter]

Deagles are a great backup pick for if Mini isn't working

[chilly granite]

deagles are my goto heavy weapon

[analog pewter]

Heavy spec meta feels like it's in a good place rn, like I imagine you could see any of the four even at higher elo

[chilly granite]

hjeavy is way too fast when i use deagles I'm running everyone down

[analog pewter]

Deagles with charge all the way

[chilly granite]

yeagh 1000%

I did remebre to use charge and the first time I rmeber to use it I just did it randomly and immeidately killed a guy

I was then wildly out of position and died to two smg lights who killed me before windup

[muted condor]

Bro can’t hang

[chilly granite]

I have also used dome shield to effect 0 times

[muted condor]

Try spear, mesh, lockbolt, dome, rpg

[compact tundra]

I've got beef with minigun players now cause the other night I went mesh flame to support my random minigun heavy and that fat fuck quit after I traded in a 3v1. I fucking reverse swept a team to cause a double wipe and the fucker still quit the damn game

[chilly granite]

that absolutely requires vastly more brainpower than I have

[sudden pewter]

That’s just a shit teammate, don’t blame Sasha

[chilly granite]

this is point break btw, not tdm

[boreal garden]

Force yourself to learn the dome, youll thank yourself. It turns fights so quickly even if you have no hp left.

[chilly granite]

eh I'm owning bitches with deaging their face

[compact tundra]

IT WAS THIS CLIP, THAT FUCKER watched me hit this clip and rage quit like 10 seconds after I clipped it, I don't understand people bro

[sudden pewter]

Dinner time 🙂

[chilly granite]

i hate the input queuing on the deagles or wahtever

[sudden pewter]

WAIT THE SKIN ROARS??

[chilly granite]

if the audio balance in this game were better I might hate heavy less but I never ever hear a light flanking me

I'm trying shak

[muted condor]

Coward

[sudden pewter]

Suffer as we have swine, use the minigun.

[chilly granite]

deagles are a lot more fun than minigun

minigun feels really weird to use, like it doesn't feel like I can take any duel with it, but then sometimes people just disappear

[muted condor]

Skill issue

[chilly granite]

playing point break here

[muted condor]

Poop break

[chilly granite]

alright expanding my repetoir to heavy is too hard, what's a fun good medium loadout with intersting gadgets and not dumb bs like defib

[compact tundra]

What made me even more mad is in that match I had already meshed on him so he could mow people down, and then flamed them when they closed in, I had already domed him once while he was low, and I had put my emitter on him TWICE, WE JUST FINISHED THE FIRST BOX AND I ALREADY WAS ON MY HANDS AND KNEES GIVING HIM THE SLOPPIEST IF HEAD AND HE STILL QUIT.

Most minigun heavies would do the most devious of things for a teammate like that and he fucking rage quits

[muted condor]

Dual blades, demat, goo, glitch trap, prox sensors

[chilly granite]

melee aim assist makes me nauseous and so I can't use melee weapons lol

I can try

also I'm suspicous about demta

model is fun gun

I don't see how medium having 4 gadgets would be so broken though

[primal lark]

Bathroom break

[chilly granite]

so how is this meant to work

[muted condor]

This guy

You on M&K or controller?

[chilly granite]

mnk

I mean I ran at them, it wasn't awful but it wasn't that good

[muted condor]

So you’re going to is WASD to move your character around

[chilly granite]

I can't imagine getting lvl 13 on dual blades in like, 3 months

[muted condor]

Btw dual blades are the worst/second worst weapon in the game

[chilly granite]

oh god I can't do this, aiming melee weapons withotu melee aim assist is so hard

[muted condor]

Revolver, heal beam, glitch trap, goo, jump pad

[compact tundra]

Are we suggesting medium loadouts?

[muted condor]

That’s probably my actual recommendation for a fun medium loadout

[chilly granite]

or heavy or light, anything non-bow

[muted condor]

MGL, winch, gas grenade, Grav cube, explosive mine

[chilly granite]

man famas is cracked

also revolver has too mcuh falloff

I got drill instead of goo becuase I had to respawn before I got rezed

breach drill instead of goo is probably right on this mode lol I just dropped the point break box it was good

[analog pewter]

they should give light a self-nullifier

[chilly granite]

I like the revolver though

[chilly granite]

I mean, as a light, I both love the sound of this and think it'll be hilariously op

[analog pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/scout-tf2-team-fortress2-stblackst-unusual-troubles-gif-18862930

[shell sonnet]

Nah, broken as hell

[chilly granite]

I probably have to take goo just so I don'tt get murded by famases

is glitch trap good on point break? I feel like that's some ranked bullshit

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/poopman-poop-stain-homunculus-gif-5894943418330622711

[shell sonnet]

With the limited coins?
Could imagine deny-ing defib could be really good

[chilly granite]

I feel like the maps are too big to do that reliably

[shell sonnet]

What kind of horse is that c4tter

[chilly granite]

aps probably better for the mgl/cl40 spam?

[compact tundra]

I'll just hand you my mains and see how you fair

LIGHT:

• Grapple
• Sword
• Gateway
• Vanish bomb/H+ infuser
• Breach charge/Sonar grenade

MEDIUM:

• Heal beam
• Cerberus/Model 1887
• Jump pad
• Defib's
• Pyronade

HEAVY:

• Winch/Mesh/Goo Gun
• Flamethrower
• Dome shield
• RPG
• Lockbolt/Healing Emitter/C4

[wraith orchid]

this is fire spear gameplay

[chilly granite]

I do not understand how you're meant to play grapple sword but I'll try it

oh ogd the right clikc lock is so dumb

they need to remove that

this is a good loadout

[compact tundra]

The grapple sword?

[chilly granite]

I like this loadout a lot

ye grapple sword

[compact tundra]

If you play more supportive it gets even better, very fast paced, very hit and run focused

[chilly granite]

probably want grav vortex instead of brach on point break

Alright Illl try heavy again

I can't play flamethrower, I've tried

[compact tundra]

This clip shows pretty well how the loadouts overall playstyle works

[muted condor]

Peak spear super spin shit

[chilly granite]

I basically did that without the thrust movement lmao

I really hate aiming down on people it's annoying as fuck

heavy having free high ground advantage is bs 🙂

[muted condor]

Can we kill this guy

He killing the vibe in here

[chilly granite]

the vibe of circle jerking heavy mains

if heavy needs dome shield so bad they should just give heavy 200hp and delete dome shield

dome shield is annoying to use for me and annoying for my enemeis

[serene glade]

Ill take that

[chilly granite]

please don't give heavy 200hp that would be so op

I hate heavy gadgets loadout

now that's an enjoyable loadout

[muted condor]

Yeah, throw him off a bridge

[serene glade]

Idk why you think about the enemy players like that. "Dome is annoying for them" or something you said earlier about not being fun to use because it effects the enemy. Every class has stupid shit and uses it

[chilly granite]

if it's bad gameplay for both sides, why does it exist?

[serene glade]

You gotta just go play csgo or something man

[green crater]

actually a pure CS loadout lol

[muted condor]

The more this guy talks the more I’m convinced he doesn’t like the game

[chilly granite]

hehehe

the visual effects on dome shield suck, it makes it really hard for me to see the enemy

but uniornically i think it's shit that in the grand finals of any esport events there's a maxmimum fo 6 gadgets per class you'll see and a minimum of 3

[indigo nexus]

The only real alternative is a separate comp balance.

Unless you wish to balance everything around the top 0.something%

[chilly granite]

I feel like the reduced individual power of 4 gadgets, would help with gadget spam in modes such as point break, not require seperate comp balance

akimbos feel really weird, really imprecise even adsd

and not spamming*

they're actually fun thoguh

[indigo nexus]

Whatever you change the meta to, it can’t line up with the best strategies from the perspectives of the average player. The status quo can be reshuffled but it’ll settle into the same container, at least so long as the level of variety in this game is maintained

[chilly granite]

it's harder to balance the game so poorly that every class has 4 gadgets that are unskippably op than 3

god heavy is op

[muted condor]

Until it isn’t

[chilly granite]

dome shield's cd and ineffectuality against massed enemies make it pretty mid in tdm

I'm gonna try a ranked game

[compact tundra]

For me it depends on the map, open maps punish it harder, but closed off maps make it really good for just taking 1v2-3 brawls, tho I play flamethrower so I already play off of dome shield really well

[chilly granite]

yeah for me the dome griefs my aim to the point i'd rather just face check poeple

but if I was runnign flamethrower it would be substanitally better

go to the vault same time as my light btw heavy so slowoowowowo

medium* still

one team made half the fights doubloe jeproday so it was a total shitshow lol

but especially with ranked not allowing changing loadouts, I think the game only gains from having 4 slots of weaker gadgets

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-rage-angry-annoyed-whatever-gif-5126333390325209476

[compact tundra]

Weren't you asking for heavy to be slower?

[chilly granite]

ye i got to the vault same time as medium

[compact tundra]

That just means the medium is bad at movement

[chilly granite]

it was both my mediums

[muted condor]

That’s because medium players are fucking stupid

[compact tundra]

Gonna be honest people who are good at movement are kinda rare from my experience

[muted condor]

Also #👂┇game-feedback has breached containment and is spilling here

[compact tundra]

Fuck, can we buy more barriers like cod zombies or are we just cooked

[chilly granite]

aww you're so sweet

anyone wanna flame my heavy gameplay

[compact tundra]

I do not play D-eagles so I'll have little judgment unless your movement/items usage is garbo

[chilly granite]

my item usage is for sure my weakness

I'm not very comfortable with deags though for sure lol
can I livestream on this discord?

[muted condor]

We might have to migrate to a different channel

[compact tundra]

We'd have to be in a voice call I think

[chilly granite]

tbh I can just dm you or whatever

[compact tundra]

Fuck, #heavy-build-main here we come

[muted condor]

We could make a chat in #1075060148004991067 and all hide in that

They would never find us

[chilly granite]

Just bully me and I'll stop

[compact tundra]

That's such a goofy idea I love it, hidden in the #1075060148004991067 is just a private chat for like 7 goobers

[muted condor]

I HASNT WORKED YET

[chilly granite]

hehehehe

[muted condor]

Normally people disappear after the fifth threat of being skinned alive or beaten with hammers

[compact tundra]

Personally I don't mind bad takes, and you're not very combative so I'm chill with you, but also I'm in here less than the others so the monotony of debating people over and over again hasn't hit me yet

[chilly granite]

hahaha

[muted condor]

I’m going to make a random bit of fan art and start one

[compact tundra]

That is fair, very few people stay in here for long after the bullying

[muted condor]

I actually enjoy having someone to yell at all day

I don’t really mind that much I just have to keep up appearances

[chilly granite]

clearly you underestimate my lack of foresight

you can't make me scared because I have no comprehension of a future beyond the next second

[muted condor]

That explains the mini gun gameplay

[chilly granite]

oof 2 real 4 me

deags running out of bullets is another problem

that's why I like the bow 🙂

[muted condor]

I just started using them last week so I suck with them

[chilly granite]

can someone set up a group chat so I can stream my gameplay and you can laugh at me

I just played two ranked matches and used my spec 1 time between both games

[muted condor]

I’m at work so I can’t watch

[compact tundra]

I'm at work so I won't really be able to join

[chilly granite]

sadge

[compact tundra]

Oof, were both getting paid to chat in discord

[muted condor]

Real

That’s what happens when they don’t make your co worker meet your level of work I drop down to their level of effort until incentives are increased

[compact tundra]

I work retail and I work the men's shoe section so most days I'll see like 6 customers

[chilly granite]

heavy is 100% op this game feels so easy

I did just use charge to walk faster to the point thgouh, so far that's my only use of it

[muted condor]

I do sheet metal fabrication

[compact tundra]

Wait so you're a Machinist?

[muted condor]

No, all my stuff is hand made. I was a welder then I went into hvac

[compact tundra]

Oh shit that's cool, got an uncle who's a HVAC mechanic. Tho your side of the job is way different

[shell hornet]

is it js me or is sword one of the most consistent light weapons for clutching and the best counter to all melee weapons

[indigo nexus]

Not sure about clutching… but for melee weapons, sort of?

Any gun gives you a stronger counter to them, but sword doesn’t need to go much out of its comfort zone to do well against them. However it does require a lot of precision in some cases

When I run spear I usually have little reason to fear sword users. Not because they couldn’t counter me but because they don’t.

[compact tundra]

Most melees yes, riot and sledge can pose a threat tho, and spear kinda fucks sword

[chilly granite]

idk even in ranked i have a hard time justifying replacing flash with dome shield

I rely so much on flash for intel and defensively

[shell hornet]

if you have three dashes you are able to kill two people easily, it does depend on their skill but if you are slippy enough you got it easy. only guns that counter sword are high ammo capacity guns with a good hipfire like p90 or ak

[chilly granite]

I need to actually use charge and slam more though

[shell hornet]

sledge is easy to counter with sword

[compact tundra]

But sword is easy to counter with sledge, they can hit 2 M1's before you can hit 3 M2's

[indigo nexus]

Any burst damage weapon will kind of wreck you, moreso than DPS weapons. With DPS weapons you can use your burst advantage over them to avoid taking much damage if you play carefully.

[shell hornet]

thats why you use the movement a light has, its basicLly hs an dark souls boss fight

[compact tundra]

Yea but a good sledge will ignore the flashy movement and just swing when you lunge at them

[analog pewter]

the sword user lunging past me while I'm actively charging an M2:

[shell hornet]

if you can close the distance without using dashes then the kill is secured 99% of the time, you can shred mediums and lights with ease just with m1 and heavies are too slow to pose a real threat

[indigo nexus]

Heavies easily win that TTK battle if they’re somewhat competent.

[shell hornet]

thats why you only fight heavies if you know their gadets, weapon and speciality

[indigo nexus]

You’re hard to hit but you’re outmatched in DPS and HP (by a lot), so they only need to be able to hit a smaller portion of their shots to win

[shell hornet]

you can use m2 and dashes to your advantage when fighting heavy

[shell hornet]

thats why you play with your team against heavies as well

[indigo nexus]

Sure, but that goes without saying for every engagement.

[analog pewter]

if a sledge heavy hits you (the sword user) once you basically have to disengage until your hp regens. and if they hit you with m2, well... i mean it's over
I'd say sledge generally diffs sword, assuming both players have equal game sense and skill

[shell hornet]

i mean you two m1 lights so they arent a threat and three m1 meds

[indigo nexus]

M2 is very avoidable as long as you don’t play recklessly though, as a sword light.

[shell hornet]

if you have dashes you can easily out manuever the sledge. if they hit an m2 you js suck

[compact tundra]

I wouldn't say they diff sword, it's a decently fair fight skewed in sledges favor a bit

[indigo nexus]

They’re generally the biggest threat to sword, they can dash away from you and you’ll die before you can get close. You pretty much have to ambush / trap them.

[analog pewter]

yea but if i see a sword light at lunging distance I'm preemptively charging that m2 because it's really not that high of a commitment. if they dont lunge at me, I'm ready to swing by the time they close the distance. Not to say sword users dont kill me, but I generally feel like I have the upper hand and when I lose it's because I misplayed fairly hard

[shell hornet]

the biggest threat to sword is spear and flame. sledge is nowhere near on those levels

[shell hornet]

i mean any smart sword dashes to the side and then lunges there

[analog pewter]

spear is definitely easier to kill light with bc its attack string is quite a bit faster, but i prefer sledge because it provides more value to my team in general

[shell hornet]

yea but a spear can js m2 and then they are untouchable for 5 seconds

[analog pewter]

that too lol

[indigo nexus]

I would definitely say it is, that’s pretty much the ideal case for them. They know you won’t do anything else for that period of time.

[shell hornet]

flames and sword normally trade

[indigo nexus]

You can time sword dashes to avoid the hitbox and counter them. Most sword players just can’t do that.

[shell hornet]

then you are just too vulnerable to them once it ends

[indigo nexus]

Spear spin only has an active damage hitbox for like half of its animation

However it is risky due to lag

[shell hornet]

you get at most 3 hits off in that time and then they jst m1 you and you got no dashes

[indigo nexus]

If you hit them three times they’re dead…

[shell hornet]

so ur gonna lunge them three times

[indigo nexus]

And spear M1 is not good against a light without having winched / lockbolted them

[shell hornet]

you would take damage on each lunge unless you got zero ping and insane timing

[indigo nexus]

Of course

[shell hornet]

or if they have no more dashes

[analog pewter]

if a spear user is spinning long enough for you to lunge them 3 times they are dogshit

[indigo nexus]

The time between the second and third spin of the animation is lenient enough that it’s very doable

[shell hornet]

yea but youd be surprised at how much people panic when u are shitting on the whole lobby with sword

[indigo nexus]

Agreed, but the point being argued is that spear spin does not make you immune to a careful sword light

[shell hornet]

well anyways the smart play on a spear is to null them and wait for your team

all swords should use null and thats a hill im dying on

[analog pewter]

sledge having such a wide hitbox on M1 is really good for countering sword bc it lingers so long and can easily follow a lunge past, it effectively denies the space in front of the sledge user. M2 also lingers and I've gotten some shnarsty late-hit kills that way

[compact tundra]

Unless your me😈

[analog pewter]

i think if you're also inside a building then sledge can take greater advantage. like if I charge an M2 in anticipation of a lunge that doesn't happen, I can redirect it to a nearby wall and then play that wall for cover to cut off that angle and force a near approach or wrap around.

being able to play a corner on its own can easily win that engagement

sword probably wins in wider spaces but i dont think melees like being in wide spaces in general, so they're kinda both out of position

[indigo nexus]

Pushing sledge heavy around a corner is generally a very bad situation even if you’re not using a sword

[analog pewter]

yea but with sword you have to push it into melee range, and sledge can make its own corners

[indigo nexus]

Fair, though that does not always play out well when objectives come into play

[analog pewter]

i agree

i dont think it's dire for the sword user

light is supposed to play clean up and split attention anyways, so it's not smart to just take a duel with a sledge

sword easily diffs if the sledge is already preoccupied. its really hard to shift gears/targets with sledge

[sullen zodiac]

Message me if you can tell what are the best gadgets for the akm

[analog pewter]

also note i mainly play with goo so my experience is from a goo/sledge player. i imagine winch changes things a lot and makes it harder, but winch also leaves sledge very vulnerable

[chilly granite]

worked out positioning guys

[analog pewter]

what are u running

[chilly granite]

cns is passive

12-1-0 hehehe

[shell hornet]

yea thats true i always just null heavies and then 1v1 or 2v1 the mediums and lightd

[chilly granite]

dome shield is for shitters who can't aim

[analog pewter]

dome shield is for being immortal

[shell hornet]

dome shield is for people who are tired of 1v1ing sh100, v9s and m11

[analog pewter]

this is my usual kit

[shell hornet]

same but i take winch and c4 instead of healing nut

[peak monolith]

I feel like if Recon Senses was reworked a lot it would be at home in the current atmosphere.

[chilly granite]

I just kited an invis light so he couldn't kill me until we qualified

his movement was fine but light doesn't run much faster by running, than a heavy, the movement comes from other shit

if he had dash/grapple he wouuld've killed me but that's s a spereate conovo

[shell hornet]

i feel that any esp is too op, maybe if it was just like a 5 meter radius sonar grenade it would be balanced

[analog pewter]

i like to do my boss power up sequence dropping the dome shield and the healing emitter. the dome is my boss fog wall

[peak monolith]

Or reduce it to only reveal like traps and gadgets, or make it a meter that burns fast like cloaking device.

[chilly granite]

also dude was giga sus he was lvl 14 account hitting every shot with m11, litearlly every shot lol

[peak monolith]

Turn thermal vision into a Medium specialty and make it mark gadgets with enemies and boom.

[shell hornet]

nah thats dogshit

[peak monolith]

It makes matter reshaper go hard and gives Medium a 4th option that isn't support, more recon/scout in combination with smokes.

[shell hornet]

its a waste. thermal vision isnt a good specialty because it means you NEED to take smoke grenades for it to be useful. every other specialty offers more value for less

maybe it would be good if it was for the whole team but even then its shit

[analog pewter]

turret should be given a tactical camera you can access by pulling up the tabled and hitting alt-fire, allowing you to swap your POV to that of the turret and change its orientation/cone of vision (so its new "patrol" angle would be around the direction you looked)

[shell hornet]

i mean maybe but just use recon scanner or hold the angle

[compact tundra]

Ok I don't like your idea in its entirety but I like the ideas.

Bring back thermal vision as a light gadget that shows the spot where they are standing, so like you'll see a white circle on the floor but wont see if they are crouched, standing, or jumping

Bring back recon senses as a medium gadget or spec that shows equipment through walls, so you can see where mines are, where proxy sensors are, where guardian turrets and APS turrets are, that'd be cool

[shell hornet]

also when a light is near the turret you have to open up the md to turn it off patrol mode before the turret does its intended purpose

[analog pewter]

I'm a big camera spike fan in black ops

[shell hornet]

it just doesnt make sense to stand still and be blind in a game like the finals

[analog pewter]

Also being able to reorient the turret without picking it up would be nice....

[compact tundra]

Both should have a visualizer to tell the enemy you have them on,maybe your eyes glow bright white so they can see you through smoke as well

[peak monolith]

I really like the idea of remote controlled tools in The Finals though

[shell hornet]

its a horrible idea because the finals is a fast paced versatile fps shooter. the most i could see being added is an unmanned uav drone specialty

[compact tundra]

It's cool but just doesn't fit this games play style. Kind like how crypto was ass for a long time in apex

[shell hornet]

drones in any fast paced game make no sense

[chilly granite]

I tried to use charge n slam in final round and literally every use of it was a grief lmao

[analog pewter]

I think it could work if it's really responsive to get in and out. The reason I don't say it would be manually fired is because I want people using it quickly for Intel, not squatting in it like they're using a stand

[shell hornet]

cns is buns im ngl, only redeeming factor is the cooldown

[chilly granite]

I only died once in first round and last round, all my deaths were to the purple m11 who was lvl 14 account and very sus lol

never in first round, once in final round iirc

[peak monolith]

I disagree, a lot of the defensive and slower play is just sitting waiting for something convenient, a remote tool to breach or recon from a safe position would be awesome.

[shell hornet]

i feel like it would still be to clunky. its either fluid or clunky and for it to be fluid it needs to be slow. also it just doesnt make sense. better buff for guardian turret would be to make it a minigun

[analog pewter]

they should put the turret PoV on the top left of your screen in a little square

[peak monolith]

The tablet you pull out displays the turrets POV
Then you can ADS to zoom in on it

[shell hornet]

that just isnt the finals. maybe for like 5% of a game it is but it would disrupt the meta and gameplay too much

[analog pewter]

WAIT FR?? HOW DID I NEVER KNOW THIS

[peak monolith]

No I mean that's the change they should make

[shell hornet]

no it dont he was making a suggestion

[analog pewter]

ohhhhh yeah that's a great idea

[chilly granite]

Please don't encourage tablet staring like r6

[analog pewter]

that's a fucking heater. please let me use my fnaf camera

[peak monolith]

Well I guess we have a strong difference in opinion.

[shell hornet]

i mean that could be a balanced buff but if they are in the turrets line of sight then the turret starts making sound

[shell hornet]

i mean my opinion has been developed over thousands of hours of playing games like apex legends, the finals and valorant across the past few years

[compact tundra]

C4? Beach charge? Proxy sensors? These things exist just the game is too fast paced for RS6 style play

[analog pewter]

turret could make a little dooweep sound when you activate the camera

[peak monolith]

Knowing what/where the turret is shooting or not shooting is also helpful.

[shell hornet]

anything remote controlled in the finals would make it a different game or they just wouldnt be used

[analog pewter]

yea the turret is already useful as an intel spec, since it tells you if someone is in its radius/LOS. being able to see who and what they're doing would be a really nice buff

[shell hornet]

the turret only covers a 90 degree area and if you have headphones you should be able to hear where ther are

[analog pewter]

we could have official finals CCTV footage

[peak monolith]

I just don't think the game is too fast paced for that. I do see a lot of speedy playstyles but from a Flex perspective, enabling the ore tactical and slower playstyle would bring a lot to the game, allowing more styles of play and more players to engage.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040444450268254248/1253792933312991263/why_think.gif

[shell hornet]

im down for that, imagine we could watch the finals from the pov of an audience member during tgm

[analog pewter]

i also think there is often downtime/situations where you have the opportunity to do these things already

[peak monolith]

The Finals found footage

[shell hornet]

a tactical and slow playstyle doesnt fit into the meta because the game is just too versatile

[peak monolith]

Especially with the focus on variety and destruction, more careful and controlled play would be nice to see as an option.

[shell hornet]

if you are spending more than 30 seconds doing the same thing you have already wasted a large portion of the game

[analog pewter]

yea but this would be a harmless way to buff the turret for even more utility and it would find its niche/opportunities. I don't see the opposition

[peak monolith]

It would also bring validation to the Cloaking Device

[shell hornet]

have you even ever played the finals

[peak monolith]

Again we just have a strong difference in opinion

[sudden pewter]

Me. I’m the opposition

[analog pewter]

well this is a case where you're ermmmm wrong

[shell hornet]

i mean you r tryna justify a slow playstyle in the fastest paced fps shooter sround

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[analog pewter]

i wouldnt say fastest paced. it's in the top 10% tho

[shell hornet]

name one game with a faster pace thats still relevant

[analog pewter]

unironically cod, to its detriment

[peak monolith]

Yes? Plenty of times there are scenes where a firefight is at a complete stand still or a defending team has nearly bunkered themselves on the objective, so more tactical and controlled ways of breaching and combating would be fun to see.

[analog pewter]

finals is more chaotic but not "faster paced"

[shell hornet]

its got more players in a match, if there were four teams of three in a one life gamemode it would be 100x slower

[peak monolith]

Dude nobody is saying that the game isn't fast-paced, I just want to see the game open itself up to more playstyles, especially with the Point Break gamemode, more tactical team-focused abilities and changes would be awesome.

[analog pewter]

i mean cod matches are still faster paced than like, point break
not in a particularly fun way but they definitely are

[shell hornet]

while they are “bunkered” the other team is preparing to blow in and kill them as fast as possible

[shell hornet]

cod also has very very very small maps

[peak monolith]

I feel like you're really upset and aren't open to a discussion.

[shell hornet]

takes ten seconds to get from one side of the map to the other

[analog pewter]

yea the big maps, slower TTK, and lack of things like wall jumping make the finals slower paced

[sudden pewter]

You’re lucky I’m so busy otherwise I’d be opposing you so hard right now

[shell hornet]

i just dont think you understand the finals

[peak monolith]

Okay

[analog pewter]

turret camera would be cute end of

[shell hornet]

but the gunfights and actions are much faster paced and if you are versatile enough you can cross the entire map in literal seconds

[sudden pewter]

No it would be dumb and stupid and stinky

[shell hornet]

go into a gunfight and see how long you can sit still for before you or your team dies

[peak monolith]

Dude chill

[shell hornet]

the other team is just gonna wallop you or leave you behind

cannot be telling people to chill over text like mf you cant see me or hear me rn

[peak monolith]

Again I feel like you're really upset over minor suggestions. We're not attacking your oppinion on the game we just want to see changes that accomidate others.

[peak monolith]

You keep re-engaging this conversation I literally said "Okay" and you acted like I wanted to keep arguing.

[shell hornet]

make the suggestions then and wait until they get added except they wont because they dont fit the game or its meta. im js telling you agesd of time

[peak monolith]

DUDE. CHILL.

[shell hornet]

im tryna educate you man bcs otherwise u aint ever gonna learn

why is everybody who plays the final either cringe or unc

[sudden pewter]

I understand the turret needs work to help it’s viability, but anything that removes the player from the contestant perspective is probably not a good idea

[shell hornet]

exactly my point from the beginning

[peak monolith]

How come?

[shell hornet]

the finals just isnt a game where you can lose vision and audio and movement for any longer than 2 seconds

flashbang is a gadet used by the enemy to give you a disadvantage, you are proving my point genius

[sudden pewter]

Instead of playing FNAF on a tablet, the medium could be helping fortify the location or gathering information. Sitting in a corner, staring at their phone like it’s rainbow six siege would be sub optimal.

Adding a recon drone doesn’t help the situation because now the medium can gain information with little to no risk

[shell hornet]

im ngl if you need telling why it wouldnt work well you need to spend more time in ranked

[restive plover]

so uh, can someone genuinely tell me if I'm supposed to be pulverised by any light with a gun as a sledge user or is that intended?
Also tips. I can deal with anything but a light with a gun which is like, a third of the playerbase

[sudden pewter]

Not even ranked, just the game in general

[shell hornet]

well not quick cash that is too chaotic

[shell hornet]

just learn how to play cover with sledge

[peak monolith]

I understand that, but that would be a player playing poorly. An effective medium could use this too support the team from a safe position, and be less vulnerable as the mid-range class.

[chilly granite]

slower ttk makes a game faster paced since mistakes aren't instantly punsihed, look at csgo, probably the slowest major game

[restive plover]

which?

[shell hornet]

yea fr, if you die instantly you need to play slower

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[shell hornet]

wtf you mean which, if you arent behind cover with sledge ur gonna die in seconds

[peak monolith]

As I stated before, I wasn't making my suggestion for ranked play, I would like to see gadgets like these used in gamemodes like Power Shift or Point Break

[shell hornet]

that isnt the damn game tho is it

[restive plover]

well yea but like, i gotta go and hit the guy and he just dashes back 3 times and unloads a mag

[shell hornet]

thats an alternative gamemode so why would we focus the balancing on that

[peak monolith]

It's a gamemode in The Finals, the game we are discussing, correct?

[chilly granite]

I mean, evasive dash needs nerf hammer

[shell hornet]

if we were talking football players would you suggest making changes based on the crossbar challenge

[upbeat skiff]

does anyone have the damage per weapon spreadsheet

[shell hornet]

or if we were talking fortnite would i suggest changing the game so that creative feels different

[shell hornet]

go to the finals wiki all weapon damages are there

[chilly granite]

ranked player are wrong and bad

point break is the destined gamemode for the finals

[peak monolith]

Okay my apologies I didn't realize you were a developer @shell hornet, and therefore understand and can dictate exactly how the game functions and should be changed.

[upbeat skiff]

it hasent been updated in like a year

[shell hornet]

i think im js a guy with a brain

[shell hornet]

then look at patch notes and do the maths urself to figure out weapon damage

[chilly granite]

I do think that 3v3 doesn't let the game's unique aspects shine

like, it's so hard to do huge amounts of destruction in 3v3, it ends up being like a fast pace r6seige

and you see a fraction of the intersting, cool and fun gadgets in ranked because you don't have teh gadget slots to mess about with because you only have 3 slots per class

[shell hornet]

get out gng a fast paced r6 isnt r6 now is it

ranked is fun because you are forced to adadpt further to win every game

playing arcade modes has nothing on the line so you dont adapt properly to the game

[chilly granite]

ranked players are such whiners that you can't even change your kit in ranked

even thouhg it would cost a coin to change kit, they still can't comprehend the idea of someone using a different gearest to counter them so they cry about it until it's locked down

[shell hornet]

that just isnt true, people use the same kits because they are easy. you can use anything with a coordinated and thought out team composition

[peak monolith]

Dude Edwin you seriously need to chill out.

[chilly granite]

I don't mean like that, I mean mean using reserves in round

[shell hornet]

a main point of ranked is being as versatile as possible so you dont get hard countered

[shell hornet]

yea thats a key feature to ranked, you cant just counter pick you have to adapt and be versatile

[shell hornet]

gng rn im lying in my bed flat faced half falling asleep i think you need to learn to not jump to conclusions over text

“hes making good points so he must be fuming!!!”

[peak monolith]

You really aren't making good points.

[chilly granite]

if we though your points were good, we wouldn't be confusing them for anger

[shell hornet]

my points are in the interest of keeping the game balanced and keeping the game what it is meant to be, yall guys r making points that dont fit into the game so ofc im gonna call bullshit on them

[peak monolith]

You're being really aggressive and not understanding or accepting at all. You're gatekeeping this channel really hard and are discouraging the sharing of ideas. Please be more respectful to others.

[shell hornet]

i mean i aint gonna stop you from sending ideas here im just going to tell you why ur ideas arent gonna work

[chilly granite]

firstly, this game has a smaller player pool. If a decision were to lose your attention, but double the player pool, I think embark would consider that what the game is meant to be.

[peak monolith]

Your opinions of what does and does not "fit in" are not objectively true. Please stop being so disrespectful.

[shell hornet]

maybe if you listen to me you might come up with better ideas

[chilly granite]

we represent basically

the entire specturum of possible ideas and opinions betwen us

[shell hornet]

its a versatile fast paced fps shooter game so its pretty easy to understand that some things wont fit in

[shell hornet]

then post ur opinions and dont whinge when somebody says they aint realistic

[compact tundra]

To be fair the mains in this channel will usually call out dumb ideas (I don't know if yours are dumb I haven't been keeping up) but this channel is usually stocked with people who value this game's playstyle and core balance ideas. Search for any text asking for heavy sniper or a heavy jetpack and you'll see a text chain of people mocking that idea cause it would simply not work in this game

[chilly granite]

?????????? I've done that like 100 times in the past 3 days lmao

[shell hornet]

yea fr man i aint telling these guys to stop posting im js telling them that their current ideas dont fit

[compact tundra]

Idk bro bow user is pretty used to having their ideas bullied. I don't think they'd just start whining about an idea being called dumb

[sudden pewter]

Just because an idea seems like it would be “fun” doesn’t mean it would be balanced or fit the game. I play The Finals specifically because it isn’t X or Y other game. Bringing elements from other titles could be cool on paper but understanding the current design of the game is paramount when suggesting new ideas.

[shell hornet]

they are standing up for squid bcs i was shitting on all his ideas

[peak monolith]

Because that's like asking to give Light a Grenade Launcher I'm asking for a turret cam

[compact tundra]

But watching a tablet wouldn't really fit this game's play style. Like I said earlier look at crypto in apex before the drone could be chucked out by pressing the spec button

[sudden pewter]

We do absolutely gatekeep in here, some of us (myself included) are needlessly aggressive, enshitification is real and wanting to defend the current experience from Fortnite-ification is valid. But we should at least try to be respectful and educate others on why their ideas are doodoo feces

[shell hornet]

a light grenade launcher can work though because with balancing it can be made to work with the games core playstyle, a light grenade launcher would have low aoe and mag capacity

you need to put the thought into how each aspect of a weapon or gadet can be tweaked to make it work before posting the idea or its gonna get shat on and you wont have any justification on how it might work

[peak monolith]

The hyper-futuristic setting of The Finals should lend itself to high-tech abilities and more tech, like a camera attached to a turret.

Or a cloaking device that makes you invisible

[chilly granite]

HIGH TECH???? A COFFEE POT HAD A CAMERA IN THE 90S

[peak monolith]

So why doesn't this gun turret

[chilly granite]

Who wants to watch a camera when the bot can do it itself? that's high tech

autonomy is more high tech than a fkn webcam

[shell hornet]

that isnt the point, look spend the next week expanding on this idea and then post it and maybe then ur idea will work but you didnt put any thought into it past let me go afk mid game to look through the eyes of a turret that already gives audio cues when it spots a player

[peak monolith]

So I can be in a safe position and know whether my turret sees an over-eager Light or a 3-man Heavy breach

[shell hornet]

or use ur headphones, you can easily tell the difference between a single light and multiple heavys

[chilly granite]

hehehe I'm trolling you

I think it's a bad idea because it would encourage new players to make bad decisions (camera sitting like it's r6s instead of playing with team)

[shell hornet]

i hadnt even thought about that yet which is why you gotta think about how every use for a gadget could negatively affect the games without the user specifically trying to grief

[compact tundra]

The turret notifies you when it's shooting people, you get the hit marker and a hit sound

[peak monolith]

Yeah I don't know how to avoid stuff like that, similar to the defib out in the open problem, it seems Medium kind of lends itself to poor decision making at the expence of the team.

[chilly granite]

my perspectives tend to be on how to help casuals integrate because I get a lot of new players suffering in my matches

[shell hornet]

a defib out in the open is nowhere near as offensive as a player going afk for the whole game

[peak monolith]

But I don't know what it's shooting at. I like to play with breach-drill, and dropping and isolating 1v1s is a very effective play on my end. I don't want to drop a full squad on my head.

[compact tundra]

I coach a good few new players and provide tips in the discord but I don't really think the game should factor in hand holding outside of better tutorials and better stats in game to reflect how a weapon works and how efficient it is

[shell hornet]

use ur headphones gng, or maybe just use a recon trap?

[chilly granite]

the ui on so many gadgets is appauling

[compact tundra]

Proxy mines?

[shell hornet]

fr lol

[chilly granite]

sounds like you need to invest in prox trap hahah

[sudden pewter]

As long as you aren’t removed from the contestant perspective it could work? (could look at it while moving)
But anything that removes the player from their avatar PoV I’m strictly against.

If anything, just have the turret mark its current target akin to the tracking dart. Solves the information issue and doesn’t break the games design philosophy

[chilly granite]

that's a good take

[peak monolith]

That limits me to 1 gadget, and as a Medium that makes the 3rd defib. I have no util or grenades.

[compact tundra]

I saw them saying earlier that the turrets tablet should display a video of what the turret sees and I'm not against that idea, I don't think it's terribly useful but it also doesn't take away anything so I'm chill with it

[chilly granite]

that would also let you reduce the turret damage so it sucks less to play against as a light lol

the number of times I've been tapped by a turret and then blow up by a frag is way too high

wasn't that the korean strat? revolver + turret to fix the revolver breakpoints hahaha

[peak monolith]

I like both these versions.

[sudden pewter]

As long as you’re not pulling an R6 and changing perspectives entirely (like taking control of the turret) I’d be willing to entertain the idea. It wouldn’t be very helpful given the turret already chirps and gives you damage markers but it’s a change for the sake of change and the turret certainly needs changing

[chilly granite]

I don't hate that one, but I think right click to zoom on the tablet is a terrible idea

that makes it seem more like somethign you're intended to do, and the game will tell you you can because it's a keybind and the keybind popups in the bottom right

[shell hornet]

lowk i think the only way to balance guardian is to make it a minigun, makes a loud audio cue for a few seconds then unleashes high damage, this would force the player to shoot the guardian turret before it demolishes you, however this could be too op of people play around their turrets so probably would do sinilar damage just a bit more per second

[compact tundra]

That I agree with, but the marking someone with tracking dart style sonar ping is my favorite. It would over all buff the turret and if it's like a 5s duration wouldn't be too annoying

[chilly granite]

100%

[sudden pewter]

Lights will shit the bed over any turret changes because it challenges their freedom to roam regardless

[shell hornet]

which is why its not an appropriate gamestyle for solo play, same thing i said earlier about thermal vision

[shell hornet]

guardian turrets only purpose is to annoy lights rn im ngl

[sudden pewter]

Noob trap I agree

[shell hornet]

otherwise it just tickles you until you get behind cover

triple turret is the bane of any light because they cant get any picks near those turrets

[peak monolith]

True and fair, I hate the idea of camera corners, but I do like the idea of just changing how turret is used and making it feel more like a character or tool and not just a mine. "Toss and Forget" and if it happens to get a kill that's cool.

[chilly granite]

but yeah, a lot of things are super uninitivie and a lot of people who try games don't want to look at tutorials or stats in game, they just want to play, which is why for a multiplayer game having clear in game UI is super important

Like in point break, it shows infinite coins when you die on attack, which makes new players (and even experienced players who haven't read the ruleset) think you can respawn at no cost

I've let embark support know they need to change it so that it more clearly informs the player that repsawning denies their team a coin

the gateway is also super unclear but I think we talked about that already

[peak monolith]

Which is why I'm not suggesting this for ranked, other more casual gamemodes make this strategy invaluable.

[compact tundra]

I like using turret with dual blades and cl-40, covers those weapons weakness pretty well. And with every other build I use the turret as a fall back point to retreat to or as a flank guarder

[shell hornet]

i mean the turrets whole purpose right now is legit to create an area that players cant easily be in, if you want to change this you need to rework the whole turret

[chilly granite]

the new player experience in the finals, if you're already into fps and just wanna try something new, is ass

[shell hornet]

so its just gonna do two different things in two different gamemodes

[sudden pewter]

Turrets draw currently is that it’s autonomous requiring very little to no input from the user.

Adding a manual control and having to adjust it accordingly would just lead to player frustration because it would have to be strong enough for a medium to want to use it over their primary weapon where it would run into the mini gun situation where it’s useless because you can’t move it

[peak monolith]

Yes that is what i want.

[chilly granite]

most of the finals mains I know haven't played many fps before at all for example

[sudden pewter]

Rather than improve its damage or lethality I’d like to see some utility added to it

[peak monolith]

Anyways I'm really tired of Edwin and wanna play The Game more

• I want to see more experimentation with the abilities and equipment

[shell hornet]

yea but dual blades and cl40 are kinda weak and i think its just more powerful to take ak and healing or smth

[sudden pewter]

CL40 mid against anything that isn’t a Light

[compact tundra]

Oh but you hate my healing idea, huff I see how it is

[shell hornet]

yea go download the game and after you play it for the first time you might understand it better

[chilly granite]

I think giving it tracking dart is good though, it doesn't poach prox mine because it woulnd't detect invis players and it would provide alternate utility and synergy with breach drill

[sudden pewter]

Yeah that’s dumb asf

[compact tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-beocord-no-lol-gif-24435520

[peak monolith]

I literally. Have it open. Actively. Please stop being so disrespectful.

[shell hornet]

it feels too op, its doing two things at once which isnt what specialties do, they do one thing really well

[shell hornet]

oh well im pretty sure my grandma understands it better than you

[chilly granite]

?!!? charge and slam? evasive dash?

[shell hornet]

do one thing really well

[chilly granite]

evasive dash does like 80 things well, that's why it's so fkn op

[shell hornet]

evasive dash is a way to dash about the place, its versatile

[chilly granite]

charge and slam is at least

-> reposition tool
-> melee weapon
-> displacement

[compact tundra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204770518264447016/1389652855845294364/the-finals-season-5.gif

[shell hornet]

charge and slam is good at moving you fast while also damaging things in your path

[chilly granite]

"while also" doing one thing really well

[shell hornet]

its probably the most complex specialty which is crazy because its just running fast with momentum

[chilly granite]

doing one thing really well is somethiign you made up dude

[shell hornet]

ur overthinking it im ngl

[shell hornet]

i mean its something i can tell from current specializations

if i rephrase it as charge and slam moves you with high momentum.

[chilly granite]

turret wouldn't be any more complex than current charge and slam with two elements, a reposition/displacement and damage

vs

a tracking dart and damage

[shell hornet]

and what happens when running with a high momentum into something or o
someone

[chilly granite]

gravity cube/vortex, jump pad, there's many gadgets that reposition without damage

[shell hornet]

yea but it would do two things at once, its purpose right now is to deny access to an area

[shell hornet]

those are gadgets not specialisations

[chilly granite]

now you're moving goalposts

[shell hornet]

says the guy who is talking about a whole ass different thing rn

[chilly granite]

man @analog pewter and you thouhgt I was a pain to argue with

[shell hornet]

i think ur a pain to argue with bcs ur brain doesnt work properly and im a pain to argue with because i can form an argument

[chilly granite]

alright bro maybe go to sleep and try again tomorrow

[shell hornet]

im js saying its human nature to not admit to being wrong so ofc your gonna try to justify your argument to the furthest extremes

id probably do the same thing if i was on the wrong side of an argument

nobody gaf if u change ur argument and admit to being wrong

[chilly granite]

I don't think it's logical to say that specs only do one thing well when you have specs like winch, charge and slam, evasive dash, and goo gun in the game

medium specs yeah you can make that argument but that's becuase medium specs are ass

[shell hornet]

they do one thing, and that one thing is versatile. maybe thats better phrasing

[chilly granite]

winch doesn't do one thing

it has both a displacement and a stun

[shell hornet]

what if i were to say im a runner and can run really well, that means i can also escape well and reposition well