💣┇weapons-gadgets

[compact tundra]

I love facing minigun with lewis gun or flamethrower, it feels like a real challenge

[icy egret]

(I'm akimbos, we were tied pretty much all match in terms of performance

Akimbos get lots of assists

[analog pewter]

akimbos is the assists machine because it's probably one of heavy's worse guns for taking direct duels

[icy egret]

11,000 support nice

[analog pewter]

you basically need teammates to be enabling you to shoot one way or another

[icy egret]

heal ball my beloved

[icy egret]

That's just because the hipfire sucks, otherwise it should be an excellent dueling weapon. It feels like they made it with dueling in mind but gave it that god-awful hipfire for some reason.

Beyond melee range it feels like suggesting shooting, not actually shooting.

[rough beacon]

I feel that either my Kdr is S or support S there is no in between

[icy egret]

My support is almost always S because I love the healing emitter and use it constantly around my team

The healing emitter is very, very good for racking up support.

Even using it to heal yourself after an engagement gives support

And you want to do that because it reduces the time it takes to get regeneration.

[icy egret]

I wouldn't go that far, its hipfire just sucks.

If its hipfire were even a bit more accurate, I feel like it'd be a perfectly balanced gun

Right now it really suffers at melee compared to other heavy options besides the BFR, and the BFR has bigger burst potential

And arugably it should be weaker at melee range and favour mid to long range engagements, but it suffers so hard that it's almost not worth it

Since picking up the Akimbos, I've found myself struggling to some competent sword players

It's still not usually a contest, but it's just that poor on dashing sword player

If I could 3 shot body them, then it'd be much easier.

[compact tundra]

To be honest as a sword main any non-burst and non-close range heavy weapon is usually free eats unless their aim is spectacular. Minigun, akimbo's, m60, lewis gun kinda. ShAk is the exception

[icy egret]

I've never died to a sword player when using the minigun, they're usually very predictable. Not calling you predictable, just in general it can be very predictable

[compact tundra]

And I use grapple sword so it's more of a matchup thing rather than tricky dashing

[icy egret]

Sometimes I'll die if I'm caught out alone and unrevved, but at that point I'd die to about anything.

Sword players also have an immense fascination with suicide plays for me.

[compact tundra]

Minigun is harder than the others but I usually switch to sword to counter miniguns. And when playing ranked with my friends im the minigun hunter cause it's just really hard to track a good sword

[compact tundra]

You're a very worthwhile trade. If they're playing casually then suicides are just part of the game, and if they're playing competitively then a sword for a minigun is a good trade unless you're in an easy to rez spot

[icy egret]

Would be understandable if I played stuff like tournament cashout

[compact tundra]

What do you normally play? TDM?

[icy egret]

But I don't anymore. Whenever I enter that mode, I just get new players on my team all the time

[icy egret]

A mix between casual cashout, Point Break and TDM. Sometimes Powershift. I don't want to play the game if I'm constantly being given level 10s on my team, while there are emeralds on the enemy team.

I don't know if it's just an Asia thing, but that's how it is.

[compact tundra]

That's fair. It's really only in cash out you'll see targeted trades. Maybe point break and powershift but idk if people sweat that much on those game modes

[icy egret]

I see them a lot in TDM, which is stupid.

[compact tundra]

It might be, I play NA servers but I got a buddy in Asia, I'd have to ask him tho

[icy egret]

There's no reason to play a kamikaze playstyle in TDM unless you're really unsure about your ability to actually land kills.

[compact tundra]

Well tdm is just a turn your brain off and run fist o' cuffs until your heart is content, so suicides make sense given the game modes vibes

[icy egret]

It also happens in Point Break too. It makes sense for defenders I guess, but there's a lot more effective things you could be doing.

If you're playing sword on attack then it's a 7v8.

A sword player on attack in Point Break will do absolutely nothing.

Especially with the grenade launchers being meta, specifically CL-40. You'll get melted.

[unkempt moss]

The CL40 is meta these days?

[icy egret]

In Point Break.

[analog pewter]

i find its ADS bloom to feel like gambling oftentimes personally
but yeah better hipfire would be nice so it doesn't suck so much in close range

[icy egret]

Grenade launchers are meta in Point Break because there's a lot less direct pressure.

It's very easy to sit in Cathedral and rain down explosion storms until the cows come home.

Destruction is also very strong there, so it synergizes. At least grenade launchers have a mode where they're meta though.

[compact tundra]

Na I play sword on attack and there is a few viable strategies.

1. Back capping an abandoned point while the defenders desperately try to hold onto the ones with your teammates on them

2. Running risky revives no one else could grab

3. Picky alone targets off and generally stalling by being a hard to kill rat that plays off point. Also camping defender corpses to stop revives

4. I like to run the breach charges cause defenders rarely expect you to stall steals

[icy egret]

You might have to slow down the shots a little if you're finding the ADS bloom an issue. A better hipfire would be very nice. I feel like I'm playing Antiquary. Lol.

(Oh, right. Antiquary is a thing in another game, its whole playstyle is based around luck to get the right artifact.)

[analog pewter]

i just realized i have a clip of me killing gremlin with the deags. i get to say i killed the TGM champion. im da best

[icy egret]

1. That's fair, but I've done that on heavy and been fine.
2. Also fair, but I feel like that could be done with Dash alone.
3. If in that scenario, why not play a gun to pick them off from a more defendable position? And if the defenders are using explosions and have moved out the objective in the open, it's a death sentence.
4. Could you not run breach charge on another weapon?

At that point, you're playing support light.

[icy egret]

Wow.

I wish I liked the Egyptian skin for the Akimbos. I have it, but I don't like it.

The murky green beneath the gold just looks really ugly to me.

[compact tundra]

I main support sword so yea that's more or less it. Just sword is the best weapon as super slippery hit and run so mixing it with gateway, infuser, and breach charge make you a pretty good team support + stall/distraction

[icy egret]

That's completely fair.

[analog pewter]

i like it well enough but if i get the emerald coin this season I'm getting emerald deags

they're not my main weapon but my other weapons I have skins I like too much. like why would I get emerald model 1887 when the eclipse shade skin is so much better with the flip cycle

[icy egret]

Same. I don't have any other Emerald skins, never was much a fan of World Tour because of the aforementioned noob issue.

[compact tundra]

Me and my buddy want to get a ruby sword and CL-40 so bad just for the sheer intimidation. Imagine facing 2 rubies and you see they put the ruby on their sword and CL-40, ruby mid tier menaces are far scarier to me than any ruby meta gun cause I just gotta think why did those motherfuckers pick those weapons over any thing else

[icy egret]

I'm very happy about the change, but the grind is kind-of insane for someone not playing cashout. Why should I have to play double the amount of games because I enjoy quickplay modes?

[analog pewter]

i find cashout matches are too much of a gamble and time commitment. like why would I commit potentially 30 minutes to a match that I know I might end up being miserable in bc of bad teammates/overwhelming opponents

[icy egret]

The points should be dependant on how long the match takes, or so.

[analog pewter]

im already gold 1.... but i anticipate making it to emerald takes wayyy longer

[icy egret]

I'm about gold 3 right now.

They are increasing per tier, 25 points. 75 for each gold tier

Which is a lot of games.

[analog pewter]

seems like 100 per platinum tier

[icy egret]

Meaning 150 per Emerald tier. And there's 4 tiers, so 600 in just Emerald.

Unless it has a different function, but it might be what I fear.

What I oh-so fear.

we're only a about 25 days into a 100 day season, so at my current rate I'd get nearly 2000 points

Let me calculate what it might be based on this function.

[sturdy sigil]

Has anyone unlocked a lvl13 skin for a weapon yet?

[icy egret]

...

I want to get a surplus, but this is kind of insane, Embark.

Don't you only get about 3 points per quickplay game?

So 700 games. Ugh. What do you think of me Embark. I guess I'll do it for this season.

Why. This is insanity.

Absolutely punished for not playing Cashout

Oh god damnit.

Do you at least get the coins at Emerald 4 or do you have to get to Emerald 1?

[compact tundra]

So presuming I only play non quick cash casual and I win 50% of the time I need 800 games to hit EM1. That's crazy honestly

[icy egret]

Err, it's 677. But close enough

[compact tundra]

I feel like if cashout can award 25 then making casual 4 on loss and 8 on win should be fine

[compact tundra]

I just divided 2400 by 3 so I got 800

I'm probably stupid tho

[icy egret]

You said Emerald 3 though?

[compact tundra]

Sorry I meant EM1

[icy egret]

For EM1 it's 800

Do you need EM1 for the credits though?

Hopefully it means EM4, not EM1.

Even then, 1800 is a lot.

EM1 is at least 8 matches a day.

For the entire season.

Given how the other seasons played out, it seems you need at least EM3 to get any credits.

Getting 1 at EM3.

[compact tundra]

I think EM4 gives you the badge and EM3-1 gives credits

[icy egret]

Yes.

[analog pewter]

this seems to actually average out to approximately represent playtime. the only outlier is making it to the final round, which should happen approximately 1/4 matches if we assume equally skilled teams. two rounds of cashout (knocked out in round 2) is similar to 2 rounds of h2h which one win and one loss makes 6 points. so really this system incentivizes being consistently good in cashout, not just playing cashout, which is easier said than done

in places where the reward is 2/4 points i def think it should be bumped up to 3/6 or 4/8

[icy egret]

It's still an insane amount of grind. I don't know what it was like before, but it surely wasn't like this.

[analog pewter]

personally i think the sponsor grind is worse...

actually no the legacy battle pass grind is worse bro give me more show tokens NOW

[shell sonnet]

same
hence why i never go wt
ranked is in the same boat expect worse because loosing time commitment stuff

[icy egret]

I think I'll just do Emerald this season and just play however I want the rest of the time

I don't have the time any other time of the year.

Hell I barely have the time now.

[analog pewter]

wish there was a coin for hitting diamond but thats only ranked isnt it

[shell sonnet]

"your opinion isnt valid because you arent diamond/ruby/emerald"

no, i just play what i have fun with
if it were this, i would

[shell sonnet]

was changed back to it i think yeah

[analog pewter]

ranked whiners ruined a good thing 😔

[shell sonnet]

also the fact that some weapons just arent viable there

if i cant play my favorites without basically making someone on my team feel griefed out of their ranked points, why bother?

[analog pewter]

https://i.imgur.com/LvhFUUT.jpeg

[muted condor]

Your lack of heavies disturbs me

[analog pewter]

day care

we lost hard btw in case you were wondering

my hot take is that defib should have been given to light so that light players might actually rez their damn teammates
might teach a little bit of coordination and team ethic

I think you could make a decent argument for it. since lights can use mobility to push deeper, they can save teammates from worse positions, but since they're also fragile as fuck, they take considerable more risk going for statues. I think that the skill ceiling of defib on light would be higher than it is on medium

it would also open up medium's kit flexibility a bit. not having to take defib would give them more utility to play around a light with defib. light is already spoiled for choice while also having few "must-picks"

[compact tundra]

You do not want to hand me defib's, I'd have an immortal team

[icy egret]

as if that wasn't obvious

[analog pewter]

thats why i want you to have defibs. and then queue with me

[stoic garden]

no i will keep playing gateway goo h+ you will not change that

[analog pewter]

2/3 of those are support gadgets so you are already a team playa

[stoic garden]

3 cuz i use goo mainly for steals atp

defib with h+ is kinda weird, just imagine instahealing ur teammates back to full like that...

[analog pewter]

basically already get that with defib healing beam

[stoic garden]

then why not give defib to heavy as well? they got their own defensive gadgetry to support the defibbed user 😄

[analog pewter]

that's exactly why not
heavy would be far too strong at protecting defibbed allies, his healing allows him to keep using his weapon while it's healing allies and he has multiple options to block incoming damage
light healing a defibbed ally is practically helpless, has no defense, so he's trusting his measly 150 HP with his ally whose cooldowns aren't even up for several seconds.

[unkempt moss]

Could just get rid of fib

Make the game about 36% better.

[compact tundra]

Idk I like defibs, you trade your teammates abilities and half there health for the option to get them up quickly and get back to the fight. It requires the support to think quickly and put the person being rez in a good spot while also trying to save on time so you actually get use out of diffibing rather than just rezing normally, I find it really fun to have 2 different rez options that both have situational uses

[rough beacon]

I think defib is an important part of the game as well the only reason I would agree that it’s bad is when your teammate revives you in the middle of battle instantly getting you mowed down but this also adds some skill to the weapon forcing your team to take time to get you in a safe place

[analog pewter]

I def think defib is pretty healthy, it emphasizes the importance of watching statues. without defib it's a lot easier to ignore statues and just focus on kills, when statues are supposed to be a core mechanic

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. Defibs are fine. They only devalue respawn coin economy, good positioning, and game sense.

[analog pewter]

I think they enhance all 3 of those things lol

bad game sense causes bad defibs resulting in getting your teammate double killed and feeding cash to the enemy
bad positioning does that as well

[unkempt moss]

How does a free revive make respawn coin economy better.

[analog pewter]

defib emphasizes the value of coins by rewarding good game sense and positioning and statue recovery to make quicker rezzes. fights around statues matter more. fighting against defib makes the medium an important priority target and also emphasizes watching statues when they're still alive.

it's not at all a free revive, it requires a lot of commitment and on the spot planning to pull off well against a competent team

[unkempt moss]

I like how the counter argument for defibs bad is always the dumbest possible play by the dumbest possible team. Its never made in good faith how that there is no gadget in the game that brings even close to similar value. Which is why its been mandatory for 9+ seasons.

No it doesnt. Its literally grab statue around corner free revive and shoot people who try to approach.

[analog pewter]

just because it's a high value gadget doesn't mean it's unhealthy. it means that the gadget balance is skewed and other gadgets need to be made more relevant (or the system of loadouts needs to be looked at)

[unkempt moss]

Okay. Explain to me how youre going to buff APS to equal the value of bring an entire person back to life safely. The buffs have to equal in value to all the gadgets, spec, and primary weapon of an entire perso.

[compact tundra]

I don't really know where that's coming from, not every weapon, spec, and gadget has to be on perfectly even footing. Certain items are always going to be more niche or specialized than others, the M60 does not need to be the Lewis gun and the Lewis gun does not need to be the ShAK. The M60 will always be a friendlier weapon that doesn't quite pull the same weight as the Lewis gun or ShAK when you're able to counteract those weapons downsides. The APS turret has its own niche use that doesn't have to compete with the generally good defib's. One's a specialized gadget and one's a general gadget

[shell sonnet]

it literally requires 1/5th of a revives commitment, what

[shell sonnet]

not even that
"oh theres a box/tree? FREE REVIVE"

[unkempt moss]

I think the problem is that defib provides more value than probably eight of the ten specs in the game. Its more valuable than any gadget for sure. Id even say its more valuable than some primary weapons.

[shell sonnet]

yeah, could see myself agreeing on that

[unkempt moss]

Its not uncommon to see a team with 4 coins going in to the finals round with a medium on their team. Meanwhile when you see any comp that doesnt include a medium thats not the case.

[shell sonnet]

just gonna forward this whole thing again

[analog pewter]

their fault for not watching statues and pushing the med

[shell sonnet]

thats like saying "your fault for getting nuked"
no, that doesnt make it balanced

[unkempt moss]

Lowest skill ceiling gadget, providing the highest value in the game. No shot you're anything but a medium player.

[analog pewter]

like idk game would be genuinely less fun (and more heavy-centric) without defib. I think the problem with defib is taking something that should probably be core to the class' kit and making it a gadget, a slot that is hard to design strong competition for
like if it were up to me I'd make defib inherent to medium (and then do something similar with the other two classes, ideas pending)

[shell sonnet]

didnt the devs already confirm heavy is underplayed in casual?

[analog pewter]

these days I mostly play heavy bc im fixated on becoming better with the deagles. Light is my least played tho

[unkempt moss]

The defib provides the most value to heavies. I'd argue you would see less heavies with defibs being removed because then the bad heavies have to get better.

[shell sonnet]

and in ranked, where defib is supposedly already less useful, heavy is played more anyways
so it seems logical

[shell sonnet]

might have a point
not sure tho

[unkempt moss]

It devalues lights as a whole, over emphasizes heavies value.

[analog pewter]

you'd probably see more heavies due to their ability to keep each other alive. without defib you'd lean on other sustain and prevention which heavy has almost exclusive access to

defib is more enabling to risky gameplay than it is stable gameplay

[unkempt moss]

I believe thats the problem with it exactly.

[shell sonnet]

fuck that guy for dying early, become canon fodder while i reload

ok, that one may not make quit as much sense

[analog pewter]

ok but risky gameplay is more fun to encourage than stable gameplay. the game is more interesting as a result.

[unkempt moss]

The problem being that the risk doesnt outweighs the stable enough because of defib. I agree risk is more exciting, but only if theres actual risk.

[serene glade]

Final round if you don't have a medium and the enemy team does. You are just at a massive disadvantage with the amount of sustain and HP they bring with defib

No risk

[analog pewter]

I think it is ultimately good that the meta centralizes around having one of each class. The problem to me is that defib is a drain on medium's kit flexibility

[shell sonnet]

defib does basically just give the medium the total hp of a heavy
once the charge goes off, thats a 50% heal

[shell sonnet]

that i can agree with

[serene glade]

It's crazy how arc raiders has a good healthy defib. And finals has this

[analog pewter]

if the medium is going for a defib you shouldnt switch your attention to the defibbed target, you should focus on finishing the medium first since the defibbed player has 1/2 hp and is invincible for a moment anyways, so you can take advantage of their health after the medium is dead

[shell sonnet]

i dont play arc, how is it done there?

[shell sonnet]

...while you need to reload?

[unkempt moss]

Its like if youre a thrill seeker. Its going to be more exciting if you jump out of a plane with a 50/50 chance your chute works than if its only 90/10.

[serene glade]

It's just a way faster revive, but you can't shoot while you're doing it

No iframes

[unkempt moss]

You have like a 3 second animation versus 10. Limited use, still helpless

[analog pewter]

i could see an argument for removing invincibility on the defibbed target to force it to be in a safer position

[shell sonnet]

and you will likely be low anyways, since unless you actually full beam headshots, the medium isnt dead by the time defib goes off, especially since they can charge for free behind cover and bunny hop

[serene glade]

Iframes is the worst part of it by far

[analog pewter]

I also think you should be able to decline the defib while it's going up. sometimes it is just better to take the team wipe sooner

[shell sonnet]

also agreed

revives in general

(though at least its now off for tdm)

still annoying in non-coin modes like qc tho

ive got multiple clis of me spamming chat with "please dont revive" and "swapping items, leave me" and yet my teammates rez anyways
talking in english in chat later on anyways, so you know they use it

[unkempt moss]

The problem is the reward vs risk. That's my whole point

[shell sonnet]

what to change tho

[analog pewter]

out there thoughts;

defib becomes inherent to medium, as like a 4th slot or something. Invuln is removed from defib, and the player takes a little longer to come up. defibbed players can decline the defib, returning to death. Purpose of this is to restore some kit flexibility to medium while cementing defib as a core mechanic that medium players cant skip in their loadout. Defib is no longer in competition with other gadgets, and you can always expect defib when seeing a medium player so there is no ambiguity.

wall jump added for light as an inherent perk, adjacent to a substantial nerf to evasive dash (e.g. reducing it to 2 charges). Can only be used once before touching the ground. Purpose of this is to give light more movement mix when using grapple or cloak to balance those against dash, while also reining in dash to balance it against also having access to wall jumps. Wall jump would be much less potent of a movement mixup, but enough that light players dont feel totally immobile without dash. Also hype for the titanfall people. Might be OP without a stamina system? idk.

Heavy gets a "pocket" to carry carriable objects in (cans, potted plants, etc), and can preview the throwing arc of those objects similar to grenades. I really don't think that heavy needs anything super substantial since he already has the most utility in his gadgets and specs, but it would feel inappropriate to not give him an inherent alongside the other two. This would let him hold onto things like explosive cans, carrying two at once (one in the hand and one in the pocket), or stack up on healing, etc. Heavy gets to engage more with the items in the arena, enabling the more creative and strategic gameplay he's already known for

[unkempt moss]

The passive I have written out for defibs removal is to make the defib 3.5 seconds. Increase standard revive to 5 for other classes. No sickness, invincible for .5 seconds.

[analog pewter]

removing the sickness is bold

[unkempt moss]

If you can't hunt down the medium in time they made the right call on where to revive. Its only .5 seconds faster.

[shell sonnet]

the very fact that defib trains
despite everyone involved after the first being on 50% hp
was so big of a problem because they couldnt be killed in time for the next one to be revived, that it had to be fixed
should speak volumes

[unkempt moss]

The sickness was a bandaid fix.

[shell sonnet]

i believe my language skills are leaving me

[unkempt moss]

My reasoning is the game btw. Get the defib off of the mandatory gadget list for medium so we can see more variety.

Medium has had basically 1 free gadget slots forever now.

[shell sonnet]

would be nice
im still bothered by its strength tho

i stand by my points

[unkempt moss]

Oh I want it removed for a passive. I agree

I'd see it removed outright but people cry about muh skins

Game is doomed if we start balancing around skins.

[shell sonnet]

surely with the bible sized eula they make you read, there is some liability waiver about skins potentially becoming unuseable

[unkempt moss]

Or... just make the medium have a unique revive animation.

Using whatever skins you have. Or refund coins.

[shell sonnet]

slapping someone awake
pouring a bucket of water

could be all class

[unkempt moss]

Embark makes more money. Game is better. Everyone wins

[serene glade]

as a defib main

[unkempt moss]

I've already moved gadgets to medium in my patch notes to help with a lot of this.

I could fix this game in one patch. Embark refuses to take my work for the low price of a one of one googun skin on my account

[shell sonnet]

greedy
share

[unkempt moss]

I deserve it for my work.

Theyre lucky I dont ask for a gooball head piece with a crown along with it

[uncut crescent]

Whats best controller settings

[serene glade]

cmon mannnnnn

[unkempt moss]

That's probably a job for YouTube orfinals chat.

[serene glade]

you gotta think for yourself just a little bit, cmon mannnnn

[shell sonnet]

ok, that would be a fire headpiece tho

starts burning if you have a killstreak of 5+

[rough beacon]

That’s not how that works find the sens and crosshair you like and use that

[shell sonnet]

im hoping for a "nama mama" set
thats just a chicken pet

gonna make the fanworks post soon, already got the pictures

[uncut crescent]

Im bad at finding things i cant even find my own controller most of the time

[unkempt moss]

Its alright. At least you don't play light

[uncut crescent]

....

[serene glade]

cmon mannnnnn

[unkempt moss]

Yeah that checks out

[uncut crescent]

What?

Light is best 🙂

[unkempt moss]

@analog pewter I'm just very passionate about defib since playing back before the nerfs. Didn't mean to go nuts on you

[unkempt moss]

Sure bud.

[uncut crescent]

Whats bad about it

[serene glade]

its my racism

[unkempt moss]

Most boring class in the game outside of dagger

[uncut crescent]

But medium and heavy have got no good abilitys (for my playstyle)

[unkempt moss]

What's your play style dash and shoot auto?

[uncut crescent]

Grapple and dagger

[unkempt moss]

Just play Sledge. It's like dagger but not for cowards

[uncut crescent]

Bruh im not going to be a medium or heavy im bad at it light is best for me

Medium fells like support to me and heavy just fells like im a tank being targeted

[serene glade]

You haven't even found a sens, how could you have found a class

[unkempt moss]

Youre fine. Good luck finding the best controller settings for stabbing someone in the back.

[uncut crescent]

I just put my sens at max

[unkempt moss]

Sounds like you got it figured out

[uncut crescent]

And its not hard to stab someone while ur grappling 🙂

[unkempt moss]

I believe you

[uncut crescent]

All u do tbh is stop mid grapple and stab from behind 🙂

[serene glade]

what happens if they turn around tho

[unkempt moss]

I'm a dagger main these days. I believe you

[uncut crescent]

Then stab them more times the 1st one probably will do half or at least a 1/4

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

Im a dagger main. He's right.

[serene glade]

ill be dropping mgl for dagger now

[unkempt moss]

wanna team up?

[uncut crescent]

Who

[shell sonnet]

im thinking

chiv 2 basically has a better defib
you just throw a bandaid at someone, and they stand up
no charge up + at a distance

and yet its fine, because if they do so, the player slowly stands up, and doesnt instantly gain the health, so if anyone is nearby, they immediately loose their head

idk, maybe something to be learned from for defib

[serene glade]

dont shoot

[unkempt moss]

No

[uncut crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-finals-the-finals-game-gif-10274923886087691245

Wow the gif glitched 🙁

[shell sonnet]

no, you need levels

[unkempt moss]

You aren't grassless enough

[shell sonnet]

-levels

[raven finch]

Our leveling system

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How to level up? Just look around and join conversations. Lots to talk about!

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Role descriptions: #👋┇welcome
Check your rank: #🏆┇rank-check

[shell sonnet]

goo king, when is the imitation-grass promotion coming?

[uncut crescent]

Whats yall main loadout

[unkempt moss]

Ill be trying to go back down to white when it happens

GooGun, any primary, any gadgets.

[serene glade]

mgl, pyro mine, frag grenade, dome

[uncut crescent]

Googun? (Is that a medium or heavy thing)

[shell sonnet]

currently maining charge n slam, with mgl32, gadgets are rpg, c4 and explosive mine on point break with my demoman skin

[shell sonnet]

i dont recommend doing this
but it is rather funny

[uncut crescent]

U mean goo grenade?

[serene glade]

explosive mine sucks

[shell sonnet]

map be gone

[shell sonnet]

nah

[uncut crescent]

I dont use goo stuff sorry

[shell sonnet]

shit, wrong reply, mb

[unkempt moss]

Unreal

[shell sonnet]

ive been fooled twice now

[uncut crescent]

I mainly use gas grenades and breaches and target darts

[shell sonnet]

nah

[serene glade]

pyro mine denying space for longer, when triggering with mgl. i feel like its the only mandatory gadget with mgl

[uncut crescent]

Target dart needs a buff ngl

[unkempt moss]

Oatchi save us

[uncut crescent]

HOW IS THAT BAD

[serene glade]

frag mgl is the most based combo tho

[unkempt moss]

You use gas while playing dagger?

For what? Take more damage trying to back stab them.

[uncut crescent]

I DONT USE GAS WITH DAGGER I REPLACE GAS GOR VANISHING GRANADE WHEN I USE DAGGEE

[unkempt moss]

Daggy

[unkempt moss]

You said you main dagger grapple.

[serene glade]

.

[uncut crescent]

Ya?

[shell sonnet]

i specifically use them to maximize destruction potential

its 4/6ths of an mgl mag

• i think total damage is higher, which helps

[unkempt moss]

Why would I assume you are talking about your secondary loadout

[uncut crescent]

I grapple in use vanish then backstab the 1st enemy try get the rest or ask my team for help if they aren't idiots

[unkempt moss]

This Oatch ain't for real.

[uncut crescent]

I dont see what's wrong

[unkempt moss]

You need to check my YouTube channel for real dagger loadouts and plays

[serene glade]

i guess i just play to not want destruction tbh, id rather keep walls in tact for it and stuff when im playing

[uncut crescent]

Idk it do i

[uncut crescent]

Cheak ur channel when I dont know it thats smart

[serene glade]

im cheaked up

[stoic garden]

CAN I SEE

[rough beacon]

If defib ever desperately needs a nerf(which I think it doesn’t)they could change it so that after you defib their statue won’t drop again after they die

Might be too much tho

[analog pewter]

all light's most fun weapons to use are also its worst or most inconsistent
and both cloak and grapple are way more fun than dash but again. worse.

playing light to have fun is actively sacrificing its best options
hence why they should nerf dash and add wall jump as an inherent ability

[shell sonnet]

permanent debuff unmatched by anything else in the game?

yeah that wont fly

[unkempt moss]

I was going to send it to you but if you're going to be a nasty little fella...

[uncut crescent]

@unkempt moss u said i need to cheak ur yt channel for dagger loadouts and clips can u tell me it then

[uncut crescent]

Sorry

[analog pewter]

also IDK what the deal is but I genuinely suck so bad with the matter when I'm pretty good with the model. like I cant hit shit with the matter and idk why

i wonder if it's the spread pattern and wider spread in general just completely tripping me up

[serene glade]

I'm the opposite, but I've used the model once and the matter like twice so there's that

[unkempt moss]

My cheaks are hurt. Maybe another day

[uncut crescent]

Ayo

[analog pewter]

it might be because with the model i dont have to barrel stuff people to deal full damage, but with the matter you really have to get up in there

i also struggle with the DB so

[unkempt moss]

I mainly post arc raiders and furry roblox content anyway

I made one video on dagger and people just called me fat because I had a face cam and was heavy breathing in to the mic when I was trying to backstab people.

It got 67 views though

[unkempt moss]

Just play gargoyle style DB. It rips.

You guys think Rek is coming back?

[analog pewter]

whats that mean

[unkempt moss]

Cloak on top of the cashout. Do not move until they start to steal

Then you shoot.

Works all the way up to mid plat.

Works on dagger as well

[slow linden]

Give it infinite ammo

[icy egret]

Good evening.

[icy egret]

This doesn't work a lot because the enemies have something every powerful called "eyes".

[iron zenith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1436102937398218933/ezgif.com-optimize.gif

FIX SPEAR SPIN PLEASE

[unkempt moss]

No. They really dont.

[icy egret]

Damn.

[unkempt moss]

The dagger is dominant until like bottom of plat ez

[blazing vector]

The dagger players that use cloak are fun to play with. Makes me use my brain a lot more. Sometimes tho I place a mine behind me and close the door. End up getting them on that lol

[serene glade]

So does dash remove burn or am I just getting screwed over by some horse ass

[blazing vector]

It does not. To my knowledge I haven’t seen a light player shake off flames with dash

[unkempt moss]

That settles it

[stoic garden]

🥶

[icy egret]

The Spy.

[spring spear]

if you stand still while cloaked youre pretty hard to see and make little noise so its actually pretty feasible

[icy egret]

True, I guess. It works once, then the enemy expects it.

[unkempt moss]

It only needs to work once against a team. Then they're terrified of it and it messes with their play.

[edgy estuary]

Need that low profile drip with cloak too, anyone with high settings will be able to see skirts, big hair and bulk.

[unkempt moss]

Its also so dumb that they dont expect it.

[compact tundra]

I love reading your dagger strats cause my only main that has any semblance of problem with dagger is Cerb, and that's still an awful matchup for y'all

[cunning wyvern]

Weekly request for spear re work and beartraps

[sonic zephyr]

people DESPISED the stungun no shot were getting beartraps

also we, kind of, have a device that limits mobility already which is this zarya-ult thingy from light.

it just sucks tho which is why theres at best, like 4 people in all of the finals that use it

[compact tundra]

My ranked experience so far has just been tom and Jerry if they kept a tally

[sudden pewter]

So the sword light uses a flamethrower…..interesting

[compact tundra]

Yea, my mains are sword, Cerb/Model, and flamethrower

My friend went medium so I went heavy

My counter picks/ occasional uses are

M11 and double barrel

Dual blades/riot shield CL-40

SA-12, Lewis gun, and Minigun

[sonic zephyr]

i mean i see a pattern too.

Your friend is more of a close range guy. Good for him

[compact tundra]

Yea, he prefers AKM but went FAMAS and occasionally P90 for ranked

[sonic zephyr]

all good. if its in the game. its meant to be usedd

[short crest]

Hello

I wanna get better at dual blades but I cant seem to get a hang of them

[sonic zephyr]

because their ass

[short crest]

Lol

Theyre niche tho

[compact tundra]

So I'ma number my tips in the dual blades

[sonic zephyr]

theyre outclassed by riot pretty much. they arent really "niche"

[short crest]

I think it’s still fun to learn weapons that arent very meta or popular

Its lowk aura

[sonic zephyr]

i didnt say theyre not fun. but lets not pretend like they have a niche that isnt already covered by riot if theres a situation that calls for melee on medium

[short crest]

Yeah, I can see that

[compact tundra]

1. Play with your team unless you can take a 1v1 with a gun user. Your extremely susceptible to being jumped so not being jumped is the biggest thing you need to try to do, always play with your team unless you KNOW the gun user you're targeting is isolated

2. When within 8m of a target and blocking make sure to aim above their head, idk why but in close range the blocked shots shoot low for some reason

3. Know your break points, you need to learn how much damage every hit does and when to go for the risky 100dmg final swing or when to just qm and get the quicker kill

4. Goo-nade helps so much for covering yourself and trapping enemies for the approach, I'd say dual blades kinda need to run either
   Jump pad, defibs, goo nade, maybe proxy senors. You can sub out either the jump pad or defib for them depending on preference

5. Use the blades to help your teammates, your a human shield and you need to kinda act like that in ranged engagements or when stealing. It's your biggest use and the only use you have that riot shield doesn't since riot blocks friendly bullets imc

[short crest]

Thx bro

[sonic zephyr]

tho i wish they were better because running dual blades and deflecting shit sounds like something that is really fun. its just that dual blades rn have so many design flaws

[short crest]

Yeah, honestly I like playing them because its like snorting dopamine all match even though they might not be the best

[unkempt moss]

Move dual blades to light. There's the buff.

[compact tundra]

That would make them more hated and arguably not fix too many of the issues other than sticking on enemies. I want the jank fixed and to give dual-blades a combat role bound to the reload button

[sonic zephyr]

they need to be reworked from the ground up. their moveset sucks and the deflect is programmed far to complicated

[compact tundra]

I kinda agree. The deflect needs to work a lot better and the attacks need to come out differently, they're far too slow for a melee that doesn't even do that much damage. But I still want the combat role

[sonic zephyr]

combat role?

[short crest]

It has to do with the players’ ping or smthn. Idk what it was exactly but differences in ping resulted in inconsistencies in the deflect mechanic

[shell sonnet]

Dual blades needs lower bloom on reflects

[short crest]

It depends on the accuracy of the gun being deflected

A minigun will bloom a lot but a sniper hits almost 100% of the time

[compact tundra]

I want most melees in the game to have an extra utility added to their reload button to just have them a bit more of a use case vs other close ranged options that tend to be better. For dual blades the reload button makes the medium do a small combat roll, basically just a roll forward that gives them the ability to stick on enemies better without buffing primary attack lunge which can make them too good at lower levels

[sonic zephyr]

its also that there are 3 kinds of deflect for some reason:

• outer area that deflects badly and you get more damage
• inner area that deflects better and you get less damage
• and god knows why if you directly aim where the bullets come out (which is the head in the finals) deflect finally becomes somewhat consistent.

Solution:

• Just give us an area where it deflects. period. no need to make shit overcomplicated

[unkempt moss]

If you fixed the reflect, the extra movement speed of lighg would make them probablt one of the strongest melee in the game.

[sonic zephyr]

ah. fair enough. i dont see embark doing this since lots of weapons still have an useless ADS gl getting any love for melee weapons

[rough beacon]

Tracking dart needs a buff. It’s fun to use but always outmatched by the sonar grenade

[sonic zephyr]

buff its damage

[rough beacon]

I think it would be better if the dart itself can stick to anything like a wall even if you miss and if anyone gets close it will scan them making it like a shop table proximity sensor but really close range

[sonic zephyr]

thats just teh sonar grenade but slightly different

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, fair enough

[rough beacon]

It doesn’t do damage?

[unkempt moss]

I think the tracking dart does like 5dmg or something

Tracking dart feels like one of those gadgets they just need to give up on and remove, or make it a function of something else.

[compact tundra]

Absolutely not. Tracking dart has 1 spectacular use, it's fucking hilarious.

It is a signal flare for your entire team to jump one mother fucker in particular. I love using it on powershift, break point, or TDM cause literally your entire team has wall hacks on one bastard in particular for like 15s, it's amazing

[unkempt moss]

I was thinking something like SR84 shots give tracking dart. I dont know what I would do with it. Or maybe bow does so you can stay on top and set up shots easier.

[thick holly]

I've seen videos where someone does AMAZING with it. Pairs well with LH1 in those videos

[unkempt moss]

Its just that Dart only seems useful from extreme ranges. Otherwise it might just be more useful to shoot that person.

[compact tundra]

I don't hate that but it'd be terribly annoying. Maybe if you have tracking dart equiped you can have an option to attach it to the shot, that'd be cool

[unkempt moss]

Put it on a cooldown for bow? Hit R to enable your next shot with tracking. Miss and it goes on a lower cooldown.

R for Recon

Then your team knows you winged someone with bow

[compact tundra]

I like the idea that it's still a gadget, just one that can be used with those two weapons as well. So like you press R and when you shoot it consumes a shot of the tracking dart and applies it to your bullet

[unkempt moss]

That sounds clunky as hell though.

[compact tundra]

I mean maybe but it would work and I love tracking dart so I don't want it going anywhere. It's really funny, try it out on powershift and watch this become a beacon of petty get back through jumping. It's the one gadget that can get an entire uncoordinated team focused on one fucker in particular

[unkempt moss]

Im fine with a useless gadget on light. Trust me.

If it was on heavy id probably care a bit more about fixing it.

As long as its fun on powershift for light players thats all it needs.

[thick holly]

Honestly this but for every class. I think it's fine that there are some gadgets that aren't as viable as others. Makes the game way more fun to try out "bad" gadgets

[compact tundra]

Oh it is, any time some one who's been darted peaks there head out like half the team beams them, it's one of my favorite gadgets due to the funny

[thick holly]

And in cashout I've heard it can be good at tracking an entire team if they stay together

[compact tundra]

It can be it's just probably more useful to bring sonar, but it certainly does have applicable uses even in ranked

[thick holly]

I'd suggest watching CalmZinCombo's videos with tracking dart. He uses it so well

[white parcel]

Isn't there still sword combo's with traking dart?

[unkempt moss]

Oh we definitely cant change it if it has sword combos. Do not awaken the sworders

[serene glade]

Swordas

[unkempt moss]

Sword combos and lols on powershift. Its locked for life.

[white parcel]

Too late for that @compact tundra

[compact tundra]

Yes there are babbyyyy!!!!

L= secondary fire/lunge
S= primary fire/swing
QM= quick Melee
TD= tracking dart

Current Combos

Light
L + QM
S + S

Medium
L + QM + L
L + QM + S + QM
L + QM + S + TD
S + QM + S + QM
S + S + S

Heavy
L + L + L
L + QM + S + QM + S
S + S + S + S
S + QM + S + QM + S + QM
S + QM + S + QM + S + TD + TD

[compact tundra]

I can smell when people ask for sword combos

[unkempt moss]

Oh thank god I thought we might have to actually try to make Dart useful overall.

The sworders will protect it.

[compact tundra]

No need, I'll make use of it. Being real tho the medium combo is pretty handy sometimes

[white parcel]

I love using it as a mark for death, especially on lights cause you take away their main tool of stealth

[compact tundra]

Also it came in clutch for season 6 when sword got the damage nerfs, lights combo was L+QM+TD

[compact tundra]

Ruby tracking dart is coming right after I get my ruby breach charges

[white parcel]

What season was it originally? I remember one season had a ranked tracking dart skin

[compact tundra]

Season 1 had the ruby track imc

[slow linden]

Based

I prefer dagger over sword but my tastes are more or less the same

[sudden pewter]

Can’t believe Embark removed my gif from #👂┇game-feedback

I guess there is some moderation

[rough beacon]

Tracking dart buff idea:
Anyone hit by tracking dart cannot receive any healing from outside forces this includes: your teammates heals and heal barrels on the ground. But you can still self regenerate like normal.

[sudden pewter]

Dog the dart doesn’t need a buff
It does its job superbly

(I’ve started using it in TDM)

[compact tundra]

Please tell me I inspired this, I'd love to know that you picked them up to test how effective at causing jumpings they are and just stuck with it cause it works

[sudden pewter]

No? I use everything silly

I just started playing Light more because I haven’t in a while and since my team was doing less than ideal I figured I’d try something unconventional

In the markets especially the tracking dart is fantastic since it negates the relative safety of the buildings

It also seems to have some AA? I’m on PC and perhaps it was just lag but some darts I’m certain I missed landed anyway

But it’s a very good gadget, does what it’s supposed to do very well. It’s certainly more niche than the H+ and Goo Grenade but it doesn’t need a buff.

[sudden pewter]

That being said if I ever have a flex slot I’m definitely using it to fill. 🤝

[compact tundra]

Booo I was hoping my many rants on the funny jumping tool made you try it

[sudden pewter]

Sorry boo everything I do is original (like Amy Schumer)

I take absolutely no inspiration from anything. I’m a font of creativity

[compact tundra]

Honestly I wish I didn't fall in love with breach charge or i'd try to get better at tracking dart combos

[sudden pewter]

Like any real Heavy, I only fall in love with Goth Support Medics

[compact tundra]

@white parcel is my goth support medic, gives the loudest and sloppiest of support as well, what an amazing team player

[wraith orchid]

Spear?

[sudden pewter]

I said I use everything

(Sans Dagger and Flamethrower)

[compact tundra]

You don't like flamethrower 😢

[sudden pewter]

I need to have arbitrary lines drawn somewhere

[wraith orchid]

ah, everything, SILLY, not everything (that's) silly

[compact tundra]

But it literally goes with everything

Goo gun + flame equals a personalized inferno

Winch + flame equals a better flamethrower

C&S + flame equals Kool aid man style jump scares and surprise team wipes

Mesh + flame equals a better flamethrower

[sudden pewter]

I’ve never even equipped the flamethrower it’s not that I “don’t like it” I’ve just never given it a chance and I never will

I’ve made a baseless assumption based on 0 evidence that players that use it are stinky and smelly and I shall not be amongst their ranks

It will sit at 0 XP when I hit Ruby

[compact tundra]

Actual classism in the finals

[sudden pewter]

When I get off my fat caked up ass and start playing ranked with the intention of improving I’ll show you all

[wide ember]

cl-40 is goat

[analog pewter]

it is my one-stop shop when i need a solution to stinky melee lights

[sudden pewter]

I’ve got a pocket Medium with a CL40 for that

[analog pewter]

yea but i dont wanna deal self damage

[sudden pewter]

I don’t take any when it’s not my CL40

[analog pewter]

ohhhh right

i forgot you can queue with other people

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been trying to queue with a friend more because every time I go solo my W/L ratio dives deeper into the shit lake of the general population

[analog pewter]

LMAO TRUE

[sudden pewter]

I can get +20 in TDM and it won’t matter because 3/5 teamates are in the high negatives

[analog pewter]

solo queue is tough as hell for W/L
which also means terrible WT point gains

[sudden pewter]

Like 2/7/15

[analog pewter]

maybe we queue sometime gangsta
not to say I'm good but it's better than randoms

[sudden pewter]

I’ve uninstalled my The Finals Trainer because after every match it would tell me the same thing:

• You’re playing like: Plat 4-1
• Lobby Balance was: Terrible
• Your Teamates were: Significantly Worse

(That and the ads are annoying)

[unkempt moss]

Not playing lights only fun weapon and one of heavies funnest. Crazy work.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/zazu-gif-8111977976091427580

[unkempt moss]

I didn't even know this was a thing

[wraith orchid]

by the way, why not dagger? too janky?

[sudden pewter]

Moral Objections, yes.

[unkempt moss]

Dagger is unironically the best support weapon in the game.

[wraith orchid]

obviously, it's like spy from tf2, it needs a distraction

a little bit less so, with the existance of dashes to do trickstab, but it's still very helpful

[unkempt moss]

Having so much down time between fighting means you can focus on healing and recon. Minimum S rank on support and objective every match for me on Dagger.

[sudden pewter]

It is NOT spy from tf2, such a comparison is foolhardy

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330547234684989/1397081229911785552/kJXz8C18O6bQyrWiq_ZLcTUyDyU8Udwn3h2YsveA3.mp4?ex=695a9d09&is=69594b89&hm=d6e0e6794012f9e66b91c8e24fb81200d3b87ecf4a08783a5b50272116d93cb7&

This is why I dislike dagger.

[unkempt moss]

I run cloak if that helps

Dash Dagger is truly degenerate. Unearned backstabs.

[analog pewter]

dash dagger is the only way to make the weapon worthwhile lol

[sudden pewter]

That and every time dagger is brought up in discussion idiots crawl out of the mud to defend obvious bullshit because I’m supposed to stop reacting to what I can see and play totally differently because of the state of the servers

[unkempt moss]

Definitely not. Its all positioning.

[wraith orchid]

just use spear, duh

[sudden pewter]

The Light (from my perspective):

• Never left my field of view
• Never had access to my back
  But no, it’s fine because “erm you weren’t hugging a wall” or “well it doesn’t matter because you weren’t thinking about the server”

[unkempt moss]

This type of shit is borderline reportable exploitation tbh

[sudden pewter]

It’s why ping is obscured intentionally by Embark

The servers are bad. And players with high ping don’t help.

It’s why Dagger is such a poor choice for a game as fast paced as The Finals

[wet night]

the melee weapons for medium and heavy should get a slight sprint speed boost

[wraith orchid]

Nah, even here, the dagger was pretty weak, it's obvious the moment he was gonna go for the trickstab, when he started running in a straight line towards you, you need to turn immediatly the moment he does this. I know it from my fights against them in ranked

[sudden pewter]

It’s aggravating for both parties, Im getting “backstabbed” from a solid 4ft away and in my face, and Lights occasionally get failstabs.

[unkempt moss]

Calling it trick stab is so misleading. The only thing you tricked is yourself in to believing that you did anything but exploit server issues.

[sudden pewter]

It’s by design, Embark is at fault

[wraith orchid]

why would that be a server issue? the dash is instantaneous, and puts them in their back from that distance, they then turn 90° and do their backstab out of reflex, I've caught them off guard everysingle time I've turned my back in advance, and they died horribly in my blender

[sudden pewter]

I don’t think we’ll ever get higher tick servers, but if we did my issues with dagger would largely be minimized

[unkempt moss]

Dont worry. I earn all of my back stabs with superior game sense, positioning, and mind games.

Just heavy player type shit

[serene glade]

i can assuure you i can react to your telegraphed dash and turn my body, but on my screen you back stabbed my fat balls

[unkempt moss]

Because he got a backstab in the chest from four feet away on a 3 inch blade?

[wraith orchid]

oh no, i'm not the one backstabbing, i'm the one spinning, with my spear 🌚 I'm just telling my experience butchering them

[unkempt moss]

If you've never been tickrate stabbed you haven't played much.

[wraith orchid]

i've played three seasons, and currently aiming for ruby with my spear-only build, currently in plat 2, i'm pretty experienced with the physics

[unkempt moss]

Ive played 9+ seasons, currently am ruby. Are we measuring peepees or what are we doing?

[sudden pewter]

I’m Amethyst 2 and I can confirm after 3 Kajillion hours the servers occasionally grant godlike powers to players with what is traditionally +200 ping and there’s nothing you can do about

[unkempt moss]

Nuh uh

[wraith orchid]

it's just...Melee fighting is all I know, so when someone comes up to me with it in any shape, I know where to place myself to make them suffer against my pointy stick, no matter what kind of melee

[wet night]

Hey catter why did you say no tot he small speed buff to medium and heavy melee weapons?

[sudden pewter]

Because I’m giant megamind brain and you’re small almond sized brain.

[wraith orchid]

what weapon, by the way?

[wet night]

Totally. Thank youf or being useful and helping new or less skilled players understand reasoning. Go fuck yourself

[sudden pewter]

My pleasure

[wraith orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/find-me-in-paris-applause-clapping-happy-gif-23610228

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/wawa-emdeb-fail-failure-cat-gif-16703817715131368982

[wraith orchid]

why does nothing work here :c

[unkempt moss]

Ive extensively played melee on heavy. I get it. Thats the reason I've been playing dagger for fun.

[sudden pewter]

You need to be red role for embed permissions

[wet night]

you have to be a certain level in the server

[wraith orchid]

what rank is that?

[unkempt moss]

Red

[sudden pewter]

You can check your current progress with -r in #🏆┇rank-check

[wraith orchid]

no, but, i'm level 5 🌚 How many mores do I need?

[analog pewter]

spear should get its lunge even if you're not aiming at an opponent. if you're holding W/forward while swinging, it should lunge
change my mind

[sudden pewter]

Levels are in #👋┇welcome iirc

[unkempt moss]

I refuse to help spear posters with their pursuit of buffs anymore.

[wet night]

careful Catter might say some nonesense that doesn't contribute anything to a conversation when you throw out ideas like that

[unkempt moss]

He do be doing that lmayo

[wraith orchid]

why is that, are we too op?

I know we received a bug fix buff in the last season, but...

[unkempt moss]

No. You guys just dont want anything fun on the weapon. You just want muh epic spin cancel

[sudden pewter]

Melee weapons as a whole are slated for a rework, no ETA but it was confirmed by Oscar during an AMA stream in S6 iirc

[wraith orchid]

owwww, don't worry, i'm not one of these guys "JuSt ThRoW It"

[serene glade]

Can the mgl get a 1 damage buff, please

[sudden pewter]

I’d hope it’s high priority as everything but Sword/Sledge are very lackluster

[wet night]

That is good to know. I havent been on in forever and don't keep up with things liekt aht so knowing they are looking at it is nice

[analog pewter]

i literally just said something fun

[sudden pewter]

Barricade is also being reworked, the recent ability to place it inside walls is likely a component

[unkempt moss]

Our definition of fun is very different.

[analog pewter]

i bet my suggested change ends up being what they do

[wet night]

is barricade even good?

[unkempt moss]

Its as good as the person using it

[sudden pewter]

I’ll bet my suggested change ends up being what they do

[analog pewter]

that being that you can place it intersecting walls and any panels inside the wall are removed, refunding a portion of the cooldown

[sudden pewter]

Yes, it’s S tier. The problems with Barricade stem largely from small bits of geometry making it unreliable to place in high stress situations

[unkempt moss]

It wont matter. My patch is going to Harada in early spring and it will fix the game.

[sudden pewter]

Oh there’s a pebble? Can’t place it, now you get blasted because you couldn’t place your gadget.

[wraith orchid]

yea, it's great...If you can place it in time 😅 i've gained myself many stolen cashouts and teamwipe by making a double barricade cocoon on the cashout

[serene glade]

Hes watching vtubers man, he's not gonna look at it

[unkempt moss]

I have faith

[analog pewter]

"if"
the game really likes to just not allow it

[unkempt moss]

What spec do you use for spear?

[sudden pewter]

I’m 90% certain that they were testing the ability to place regardless of geometry and somehow it made it to live on accident

And they removed it after saying they wouldn’t because it was too much fun and it’s a scapegoat for server performance

[wraith orchid]

spear, winch, dome shield, healing emitter and barricade

[sudden pewter]

Server performance which has been getting worse for several seasons mind

[serene glade]

Not goo spear....wrap it up

[unkempt moss]

Legitimately embarrassing.

[sudden pewter]

#Justice4Barricade

[unkempt moss]

Can we get redcaster back in here to thump on catter some more

[wraith orchid]

It's made to give me enough resilience to get where I need to and survive the occasional chip on my way, once there, I just push in and trade with one/two, and waste a bit more time with my defense kit, before going down

[unkempt moss]

Its fine. As a GooGun main, not only am I better than lights and mediums, im just plain better than all other heavies as well. Dont worry about it.

[wraith orchid]

It's just that with my kit, goo gun would just be overkill, defensively wise

[sudden pewter]

Goo Gun? More like, Goo Fun amirite gamers

[unkempt moss]

So true, king.

[serene glade]

[stoic garden]

i need to learn goo gun cuz i need to play that shit with minigun

[sudden pewter]

Goo Gun with mini is great as you can funnel enemies by blocking avenues of approach

[stoic garden]

any loadout recommendations?

[wraith orchid]

also, I tried it, I did like half of the score I was doing with winch. It just uses so much time I could use placing myself and my gear

[sudden pewter]

• Goo Gun
• Minigun
• C4 (Stall + Light Obliteration)
• Barricade
• Healing Emitter

[stoic garden]

my friend praises me for the speed at which i pop both my dome and emitter loll

[wraith orchid]

nice, now for the plat de résistance puts barricades in egg formation

[stoic garden]

barricade 🤔

[sudden pewter]

C4 can deal 150 and OHK Lights
The Barricade can be used to block ratholes and cut your model in 1/2 as you shoot around it
You can stand on top of the healing emitter with a barricade placed in front of you to cut the bottom half of your model, and the further you place the barricade from the emitter the tighter your angle

[stoic garden]

ig i'll take it, other swappables if terrain is too fucked up? lockbolt?

[sudden pewter]

Lockbolt is an S tier, I’d take it over the emitter if your team is more mobile

[unkempt moss]

For loadout youre looking to just stop redundancy in your loadouts. So you dont need barricade, lockbolt, dome, or goo grenade. Anti grav is great with goo. RPG for destruction and a mine of your choice.

[wraith orchid]

it's great to fuck up movement, in higher tier, not being able to change position-->death

[stoic garden]

i dont think rpg has more value than c4 with a minigun loadout

[wraith orchid]

both are good, rpg is more reactive

[stoic garden]

for on demand destruction i can literally use the minigun in some cases

[unkempt moss]

I like rpg for play making more than C4.

[wraith orchid]

and with the recent 10 damge buff buff, you can now quick melee a light after a zooka shot

[sudden pewter]

I like having C4 as if I’m caught out with low ammo and I know I’m being chased, I can throw the C4 in front of me and as I run by it’ll arm and I can blow away my pursuers

[analog pewter]

no destruction..... id swap dome or heal orb for rpg unironically

[unkempt moss]

I don't use either for damage

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/67-67-kid-edit-analog-horror-phonk-gif-3349401281762803381

[analog pewter]

nobody commented on my peak idea 😔

[stoic garden]

i just noticed, no dome?

[unkempt moss]

You have a minigun wtf do you need more damage for?

[analog pewter]

setup i tend to use for heavy melee

[stoic garden]

not wasting a slot for 40 minute cooldown destruction at long range tho, i'd just take c4 and use it for emergencies and drops

[unkempt moss]

Guess it was more valley than peak

[analog pewter]

nah its a heater

[wraith orchid]

I know, but I just use what's given by the terrain for that, whether a red or orange barrel. Having so many time-wasting and defensive options forces the enemy to come to me, and that often lead me to a kill or two

[sudden pewter]

It’s certainly an option, with how I play Minigun (specifically with goo) I don’t use the dome as you can make goo pillars everywhere to hide behind

[stoic garden]

oh right goo gun

[unkempt moss]

If you're playing that much on your back foot you aren't using googun well enough

[wraith orchid]

when you're out of bullets and vulnerable, that's what I use it for personally

[compact tundra]

Btw the tank was successful sir 🫡, all thanks to your hard work we got the highest kills in every game we played.

[stoic garden]

which is why im tryna learn it, give me some guide lines if anything

[wraith orchid]

that's great 🎊 , you've got some footage?

[unkempt moss]

Youre approaching GooGun wrong already. You're trying to couple it to your primary. It is your primary.

[stoic garden]

this is my usual loadout

[unkempt moss]

So when you make the swap your mind has to be on using it all the time. It has unlimited use so its strong for that. Barricade and dome are redundant with GGun

[compact tundra]

Sadly no but we might hop back on tonight and either get some or stream it for lots of footage. But one of my buddies is military so we called him general and just played a literal tank, was super goofy if only our fucking gunner could learn to stay in the fucking tank and not thirst

[analog pewter]

you're playing for setups. your first response in most engagements should be to use goo in some way or another, so you should basically always have it out and swap to your weapon once you have the setup

[analog pewter]

i actually find barricade to be highly synergistic with goo

[sudden pewter]

Mesh 🤝

[stoic garden]

i like barricade with mesh ngl

[sudden pewter]

Barricade lets me help my team safely approach, or stall my death

[wraith orchid]

heeeeeeyy, that's my gadget build, nice, hit me up 🖐️

[analog pewter]

barricade is also resistant to goo's counters, so it's better for things like blocking doors and windows more permanently

[unkempt moss]

With mini you aren't using it for offense like on certain weapons. Control entries and funnel, use it for sustain with your healing emitter.

[analog pewter]

you can play aggro minigun if you're a baller with good slide tech

[unkempt moss]

You can guel on mini but your spool up time makes it not the best

[analog pewter]

when i play minigun im basically slide revving everywhere so that at any moment I'm at least at half-rev

[wraith orchid]

but yeah, that's not gonna work with goo gun the goo gun does the whole terraforming-building defenses shtick, so you can focus on more offensive ones for the rest, like mines, c4 or zooka

[unkempt moss]

You can play hyper offensive with goo, just not so much on mini.

[analog pewter]

yea goo with mini means you're probably not spooled up. i play mini with C&S

[sudden pewter]

Any form of CC or things that block LoS are the bane of Minigun

[sudden pewter]

That’s the way to do it 💪
Jump-Revving in 2026

[unkempt moss]

See these guys are minigun players, not GooGun players.

[analog pewter]

i play goo gun but mainly with melee

[sudden pewter]

I use Goo with Akimbo’s

[unkempt moss]

GooGun doesnt leave my heavy loadout under any circumstance.

[sudden pewter]

I mainly use C&S or Mesh.

[analog pewter]

i use C&S with akimbos lmao
my minigun loadout is the same as my deagles loadout

[sudden pewter]

That’s because you STINK and are a POOPOO HEAD

[unkempt moss]

No

[sudden pewter]

Yes. I’ve seen it in the stars

[unkempt moss]

The stars betrayed me again

[sudden pewter]

I boiled an umbilical cord and the voices said so

[compact tundra]

Hot take but I like winch, it's fun to me. I use winch and mesh mostly but play all heavy specs fairly regularly

[sudden pewter]

Winch is great, it’s just a shame the displacement is secondary to the stun effect

[compact tundra]

I agree honestly, I think the displacement is enough on its own, that's the fun part after all

[sudden pewter]

The fact Winch still grants a stun even when used at point blank is so stupid, the displacement should be the biggest point and not the stun. StunGun was reworked so why does Winch get a pass

Make it make sense raaaaaaaagh!!1!!1!1!

[analog pewter]

hilarious that you can see i almost never use winch or mesh shield

[compact tundra]

Hell the only specs in the game I don't play on at least a bi-weekly basis is cloak and dematty, and it's cause I just don't like them

[sudden pewter]

Why is Shak at lvl 1

[analog pewter]

i hardly use it

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138130467057565747/1171054511222173746/caption-3.gif

[unkempt moss]

Missing out

[sudden pewter]

Shak is the gold standard of weapon balance bro how could you do this

[analog pewter]

unfortunately shak has negative aura on account of being a boxy bullpup rifle so it's a bit of a vibe killer even if it feels good to use

[sudden pewter]

If I were to have carnal relations with a weapon it would be the Shak

[unkempt moss]

Not liking bullpups is embarrassing.

[analog pewter]

for me it is the model 1887

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-team-fortress-heavy-gif-21772094

[analog pewter]

i like some bullpups but the shak looks like the gun version of the nerd emoji 🤓

[compact tundra]

Your stats make me sad, I almost pity you for your lack of culture and taste heathen

[analog pewter]

aside from the shak what am i missing out on

[unkempt moss]

MGL and not enough KS

[analog pewter]

i try the mgl but dude that thing is heinous

i like the KS well enough but I feel more consistent with the deagles lately

[sudden pewter]

• Fuck: Minigun
  Always a good time, but its drawbacks prevent it from shining.
• Marry: Shak
  Always reliable, viable, and flexible.
• Kill: BFR
  Gives Heavy way too much poke potential, the Akimbo’s at least had shitty bloom based on RoF.

[analog pewter]

i wanna get better with the SA1216 but its hard man

[sudden pewter]

I love the SA but unless my team is on point I’ll die dueling or making my approach

[analog pewter]

you really have to land consecutive meat shots to get value

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, it’s a shotgun?

[compact tundra]

Mesh, winch, lewis gun, SA, M60, KS, C4, heal beam, Cerb, P90, data reshaper, matter, ARN, sword, gate way, nullifier, glitch nade, and for the love of all that is holy your tracking dart and breach charge make me wanna cry

[unkempt moss]

Learn Titan and punish lights for trying to enjoy the game.

[compact tundra]

And I would've added this too if it was as cool as the KS

[sudden pewter]

God if the KS hipfire wasn’t unreliable it would be S tier

I’m giving chase so often and my Hipfire (that would have landed with any other shotgun) goes wide by a margin enough for me to miss

[unkempt moss]

It would be so fun if it didn't have deviation

[sudden pewter]

I just need to treat it like a slow revolver

ADS all the time

[compact tundra]

EMBARK!!!!! GIVE ME 110 PER SHOT AND HIPFIRE AND MY LIPS ARE YOURS, ILL EVEN TAKE A RANGE NERF TO COMPENSATE!!!!!!

[analog pewter]

im not a big fan of normal automatics
minigun and shak are cool though
matter I just suck ass with, heal beam seems to level quite slowly, data reshaper doesn't fit in any of my common builds, and I just need to learn to use C4 better

[sudden pewter]

Just give me accuracy I don’t even need the 110

Why the shotgun most reliant on accuracy is also the only shotgun in the game with a hipfire penalty is a question for the lovecraftian horrors in the balance division

[analog pewter]

because it's not a shotgun
it's a rifle

[unkempt moss]

They say its because its a slug. Exception can be made for the sake of uniqueness and playability.

[sudden pewter]

It shotgun

[analog pewter]

slug shotguns are mechanically in the rifle category

[sudden pewter]

It say shotgun IG

[analog pewter]

thats for challenge purposes not balancing

[sudden pewter]

Slug Shotgun.

[unkempt moss]

Doesnt mean it needs to fall in clear cut lines like that. Its other deficiencies dont fall in to rifle guidelines.

[analog pewter]

might as well give the repeater no hipfire penalty

[sudden pewter]

That would be broken AF

[unkempt moss]

Those goal posts are outta here

[compact tundra]

There's a clear difference between the never been meta KS-23 and the meta for multiple season repeater, that's kinda a very unfair comparison. And the KS has a far shorter effective range

[unkempt moss]

I forgot the 20m KS hybrid vs 40m CB hitscan are the exact same.

[analog pewter]

the reason shotguns have no hipfire penalty is because their shot spread is already their range-limiting factor and distance to your opponent determines how many pellets can land and thus how much damage you can potentially deal. hipfire spread exists on single-projectile weapons because their range-limiting factor is fall-off and accuracy and they're expected to aim in order to shoot accurately

the KS-23 shares more in common with the deagles and the Sniper than any of the shotguns

[sudden pewter]

It’s also more feast/famine of any other shotgun, it fires a single slug opposed to a pattern. If you miss, that’s 1/6 of the mag gone and no damage

[analog pewter]

like mechanically its projectile functions similar to the sniper, though its damage doesn't match. its accuracy profile is also comparable

[compact tundra]

But it really doesn't, it doesn't have good range, it doesn't have scopes, it doesn't have headshots. The bow is closer to the sniper and repeater and even that thing with its infinite ammo clip has perfect hip fire

[analog pewter]

yea im not saying it shouldn't be buffed but the guiding philosophy for buffing it shouldnt be to treat it like a shotgun

[sudden pewter]

Given the god awful RoF/Reload stats as well the least it could do is go where one expects it to (on the crosshair)

[analog pewter]

this shouldnt be the only change but I'd like to see them give it another round in the tube

[compact tundra]

So what should the philosophy be, cause treating it like a rifle will either break it or make it a worse titan with destruction

[unkempt moss]

This is so bad faith its crazy

[sudden pewter]

If the accuracy is going to remain an issue I’d like to see a higher RoF based on loaded rounds

Would probably be fucking broken but at least then the risk would be rewarded

[analog pewter]

they should let you slam fire it

[sudden pewter]

I don’t know what slam fire means 😔

[sudden pewter]

All I know is rooty tooty point and shooty

[unkempt moss]

Basically just hold trigger and it fires at max rate of fire.

[analog pewter]

less accurately though. its firing basically the moment the round enters the chamber

[unkempt moss]

That would make sense since you think its like the deagles.

[compact tundra]

Why would making It a gambling gun be a buff? yea higher rate of fire but I'm rolling dice on whether or not it hits

[analog pewter]

im not being entirely serious man

[compact tundra]

Fair enough, cool concept on paper but I don't think it'd be applicable outside of a gimmick

[analog pewter]

im not against another accuracy buff but I think the KS's hipfire inaccuracy should never be made the same as its ADS inaccuracy
I think they should just make ADS accuracy better and maybe make the projectile deviate past its hitscan range due to turbulence. so its 100% accurate in ADS, but when it becomes a projectile, it starts to curve outwards?

unless you're standing/crouching perfectly still anyways

that way you can keep it accurate in 20 meters and still make sure it's not effectively a headshotless sniper at longer ranges

[unkempt moss]

I guess I dont see the harm in making it hip accurate. It cant headshot, it cant quick melee cancel even with winch, it has a maximum range of 23m.

[analog pewter]

so it'd act like this when ADS

[compact tundra]

I don't like this, for an accuracy based weapon that lacks so many of the upsides of rifles, why should we keep pushing this it's a rifle but worse mentality. I want the thing to be a unique shotgun like it is, not a titan without headshots forever. I just fundamentally don't like the way you view the weapon cause it only leads to it being either busted or mid and pulls any uniqueness it could've had out of the weapon without adding gambling to its mechanics

[sudden pewter]

This would make me suicidal

[analog pewter]

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-computer-smile-yellow-smile-surprised-gif-26981337

[analog pewter]

strongbad when he gets an email and it's just his IP address and exact location

[sudden pewter]

That’s a throwback Jesus

[analog pewter]

THEY STILL MAKE EM

[sudden pewter]

Nuh uh

[analog pewter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zhsNdk1_Vc

1 month ago

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[analog pewter]

my thinking is that the long range shot wouldnt be any less accurate than it is now, like the shot would go where you currently would expect it to go, but within 20 meters it's perfectly accurate

so if you're crouching still, it would still be basically perfectly accurate at range

[sudden pewter]

Acceptable.

Anything beyond 20 is largely less effective as is, as long as the target is within 20m it should be accurate

🤝

(Still a shotgun tho)

[analog pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/azumanga-gif-12432384336678612273

ill concede it's between a shotgun and a rifle

[unkempt moss]

So do we get the good hipfire with this agreement?

[analog pewter]

it can be better...

[unkempt moss]

This is a hill I'll die on for sure.

[analog pewter]

it should probably be worse than the model 1887's hipfire though I think
at least while moving and jumping and stuff
lemme see what it looks like rn though

nvm i lied its already better

[compact tundra]

I've planted my flag on my hill and I'm dying there unless my earlier points are debunked, there's still no good reason to me a slug shotgun, with no headshots, and a 20m range should be considered a rifle

[sudden pewter]

Yeah if I’m jumping ofc it should be worse

[unkempt moss]

The KS would be so fun and good if you just gave it the hipfire like a shotgun. Reduce the hitscan range if it makes you happier. From a playability stand point letting it function like that would feel way better.

[analog pewter]

ok so it looks like the current strafe hipfire is about the same as the model's accuracy

[unkempt moss]

It already has so many of the shotgun drawbacks

Comparing it to the repeater, bfr, deagles, and sniper is wild. Only one of those being a hybrid alone makes it a weird comparison.

It has a maximum effective range thats 10m+ shorter than anything listed there.

Sorry, maximum fall off is 10m shorter than the minimum fall off of most of those guns. Is hybrid. Doesnt headshot. But we're going to pretend its like any of those.

[sudden pewter]

Thank you Nexon

10m cooldown btw for saying the naughty S word

God I fucking hate forced moderation

[unkempt moss]

s*astic?

[sudden pewter]

I assume?

[stoic garden]

i threw a gas barrel at a medium then goo'd him until he died of intoxication

[unkempt moss]

Thats nuts. For all the heinous shit that gets said in here.

[unkempt moss]

Now you're googunning.

[sudden pewter]

He’s googing

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/GtmObRra0AAjfph.gif

[unkempt moss]

Is Arc also published by Nexon?

[sonic zephyr]

if they have shares on embark kinda yeah

[unkempt moss]

I'm just trying to figure out if that game is going to go to shit as well

[sonic zephyr]

i wouldnt put it past embark to go for a 2 for 2

but imma be real embarks incompetence killed the finals far sooner than whatever shenanigans nexon might be up to

[sudden pewter]

I believe Arc Raiders is published by Embark themselves

[unkempt moss]

The road map says Nexon on it. We're so fucked, raiders.

[sudden pewter]

The Finals is published via Nexon though, which is likely a factor in the fattest of ropes glazed for China in the S9 Trailer

[sudden pewter]

Embark is a subsidiary of Nexon

[sonic zephyr]

like i said. embark is prolly gonna fuck arc up before nexon has a chance to ruin it

[unkempt moss]

I'm scared and xenophobic. What do I do

[sonic zephyr]

go for a 3 for 3 and become racist too

[unkempt moss]

If you insist

[sonic zephyr]

its essential

[sudden pewter]

I’m a minority so I can’t be racist

All my hatred is objective, I love being a half breed

[sudden pewter]

I am IMMUNE TO PROPAGANDA
(Unless it’s a Goth Support Medium)

I need to play more Arc

[muted condor]

Get your ass on

I need to treat you to some nice game play

[sudden pewter]

Can’t I’m working with a Bober rn boo 💔

[compact tundra]

That's evil and I've got to do it

[sudden pewter]

I haven’t even played Stella Montis yet

And it looks like so much fun

[unkempt moss]

What happened?

[muted condor]

God damn it

[sudden pewter]

I’d elaborate but the mods would string me up and hang me by my innards

It’s alive though, initial prognosis is stable

[sudden pewter]

I’m free tomorrow but I’m also binging TF2/DarkTide

[muted condor]

Don’t lie, you hate me

[sonic zephyr]

ngl i thought you were unemployed

[muted condor]

Our relationship is over

[analog pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179603092187123823/1457148309243428905/Replay_2026-01-03_14-48-30.mp4?ex=695af29d&is=6959a11d&hm=bc6b47eb6ab54b56634f22564bc3766900932146d68a87e7954b5479bb8fa70b&

tell me I didn't get robbed here. like come ON

that was as precise as a can throw GETS

[sonic zephyr]

funny enough, didnt they at one point supposedly changed the red barrel that it now explodes on any contact with any surface? feels like that change lasted for like 2 weeks now were back to red barrels being terribly inconsistent

[sudden pewter]

With how much I chat on this server that’s understandable

[analog pewter]

this woulda been such a banger clip man i feel robbed

[sudden pewter]

If I was unemployed I’d be Ruby by now

Alas, I work 6 days a week

[sonic zephyr]

Nurse or veterinarian?

[sudden pewter]

Neither, Veterinary Assistant/Wildlife Rehab/“Kitten Tamer” (stray animal socialization)

I work two jobs and volunteer for 3 different orgs

[sonic zephyr]

thats a lot

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, I love my job(s)

[sonic zephyr]

yeah aight apparently i cant give you a white heart as well so the pregnant male has to do i guess

[sudden pewter]

When I’m not rescuing cats or painting 40k miniatures Im gaming because I’m a good boye and I deserve a little treat

[sonic zephyr]

wait i cant give you any reaction

[sudden pewter]

I wonder why 🙂

[sonic zephyr]

❤️

[sudden pewter]

❤️

[sonic zephyr]

this will have to do

aight apparently im "emoji-reaction" banned now

this fine. i think emoji reactions suck anyways

[sonic summit]

where is the buffer tube on the arn because the main body of the rifle ends in a pikitini rail wo where is the buffer tube

the bolt wouldnt function

why am i questioning the realism of this game

[analog pewter]

it's based on the BRN-180

[slow linden]

Give heavy the puckle gun

[analog pewter]

they should add another WWII gun of some kind so the lewis gun can have a pal
or maybe something early cold war era

[unkempt moss]

Funny enough my m60 rework involves it working as a mounted system.

The puckle gun looks cooler though

[analog pewter]

imagine they make it so the m60 can mount corners and ledges like in fucking cod 😭

i know its a different weapon but i really wish they'd give the LH1 an M1 garand skin with special reload. like that s6 skin for the v9s

[unkempt moss]

Im surprised that it hasn't been done. I feel like its been requested since it released.

[analog pewter]

it would be as popular as the dough wrangler/eclipse shade skins are for the model

[unkempt moss]

Id love for the m60 to be able to mount things. Make it an absolute laser when mounted and be insanely hard to shoot when not mounted.

[analog pewter]

oh yknow what gun swap they could do? the 6-round model of the mauser c96 for the Revolver

[unkempt moss]

They certainly could.

[analog pewter]

I'd also love the Luger for the V9S

model swap skins are a big missed opportunity they gotta cash in on. saw someone mentioning the thompson over the p90

[unkempt moss]

That and the m1 i feel like are the two that are missed opportunity to be in.

[analog pewter]

I'm certainly not against adding unique functionality to automatic weapons to distinguish them from each other. i tend to have an anti-automatic bias but things like the minigun and shak are distinct enough to break through that

if the m60 can mount, what should the lewis gun have? should it just be normal? in which case, the m60 would probably need to be nerfed a little in other ways to compensate. but i like it

[unkempt moss]

My M60 rework is more on the dumb side but I feel like distinguishing it from the Lewis is important. I have the M60 mounting, and having a forward mounted shield on it. Slowing the fire rate, but increasing damage so that it keeps the same DPS. But its more punishing for missing shots. That way the unmounted inaccuracy means more and the recoil feels chunkier.

Lewis I think is perfect where its at tbh. It feels good to shoot, hits hard, feels meaty. Its the perfect normal LMG to be avaliable

[muted condor]

Let you poke a hole in the barrel shroud and dump the scalding hot water on lights

[unkempt moss]

My main thing with a lot of guns is making them feel distinct in their handling. I really dont like having weapons feel similar with so limited number on the roster.

Namely AKM/FCAR, Lewis/M60, XP/ARN. Mostly because depending which one is favored that season is really the only deciding factor between the two.

[neon barn]

what if they add a lh1 skin turning it into the m1 garand?

[sonic summit]

Ohhhhhh

[brisk saffron]

FPV drones for medium? 🤔

[analog pewter]

a recon drone would be really interesting. something you can park and use to ping with if you're tabbed into it

maybe it releases a sonar sweep when destroyed, or pings the player who destroyed it for a couple seconds

[short crest]

it could allow the devs to make more lore connecting the finals and arc raiders

[celest hearth]

Will light get new weapon in new season?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. My dad works for Nintendo, ive seen the plans for the next 3 seasons.

[serene glade]

Season 10
Skins
Season 11
worse skins
Season 12
racism filter mk.2

[wooden prawn]

Random question. What are the thoughts on the minigun? Asking because I struggle with it so I'm just curious whether its bad or good when it comes to other's opinions. 🤔

[shell sonnet]

i find it pretty fun, but its drawbacks can be a bit something

id recommend jump-revving around corners
maybe defensive gadgets like healing emitter and dome will help you
or pyro mines to help against being rushed down?

[wooden prawn]

Maybe. Thanks. 👍

[shell sonnet]

also ask here again a bit later, more opinions from different people will help

[wooden prawn]

Will do.

[unkempt moss]

I think its pretty good after the buff. It's not heavys best weapon but it ranges from okay to good depending on the map and area. You have to be proactive with it to do well. As soon as youre playing reactively its spool makes it hard to win gun fights. Good map knowledge and positioning it crushes people.

Your loadout depends largely on if youre playing solo or with people. Minigun is kind of like sniper in that if you dont have a team to help maximize it you're needing to put in a lot more work.

That lack of self sufficiency i think hurts it over all, but it is strong.

[wooden prawn]

That's unfortunate since I play solo.

[unkempt moss]

You just have to adjust your play. Healing emitter, barricade are probably good start. You can dance around barricade, and emitter will adjust your breakpoint enough to win fights.

Its not bad solo, its just harder. Its not like shak where it kind of thrives in whereever you put it as long as its not long range.

Play your life. Barricade up to give yourself time to spool, and while you learn the movement which can feel clunky at first. I like proxy on mini because good vision can give you enough time to beat the problems it has.

The standard loadout everyone will tell you for heavy is dome, rpg, c4 I think. Which works in most cases, but its not the most engaging.

Ive read lockbolt is mandatory for mini but I dont like it that much because it feels like the lag between bolt and spool is shitty.

[wooden prawn]

It really is. I'm trying it out again right now.

[unkempt moss]

I play googun so it can fill the gaps on a lot of issues mini has so our experience will be much different if youre not playing that.

[wooden prawn]

How does it help?

Googun I mean

[gray wagon]

revolver feels broken af

[unkempt moss]

Googun let's you control fights really well. So you get to be proactive like I said. Your defensive control is unmatched, and offense you can creat cover and sightlines for yourself very well. I'm not sure what the recommended spec for mini is though.

[unkempt moss]

It do be very strong.

Googun can also bail your ass out on mini if you get caught out on a reload or something.

Its mainly the learning curve that's the problem. Servers can also make it finicky.

[regal raft]

what are good beginner weapons?

[hardy dust]

For what class?

[regal raft]

I guess medium

[hardy dust]

Famas is pretty easy and quite strong

[regal raft]

No sorry, I ment heavy

[hardy dust]

Id suggest trying out shak

Its strong and not too difficult, you just need to manage your ammo

[regal raft]

I see

[regal raft]

Is flamethrower a good or a bad weapon

[hardy dust]

Its not good since it gets countered very easily

But its not difficult to use against your average opponents either

Overall its pretty terrible but works fine casually

[regal raft]

Yea that makes sense

[sonic zephyr]

idk man just go play the game figure out what you like

[unkempt moss]

I would like to say flamethrower can work just fine at the high end, its just not so straightforward to do it. I've used it to climb ranked before.

But its definitely not a weapon I'd call strong

[plucky spade]

You see this game, you see the pace, and you think you can have time to use a drone?

[livid cradle]

With invisibility and if it auto pinged enemies like a directional sonar Granada on wheels like in siege, maybe you can put C4 on it as well

Need some sort of rc vehicle that you can put C4 or mines on like the rcxd in cod and you can detonate c4 or mines while driving it to clear a room

Could be cool

[tired summit]

how do i stop stuttering in my first 2 matches in the finals (i wait for the shaders to preload) im on a i5 10600k and using a rx 9060xt with 16gb ddr4 could it be an issue with my settings?? in or out of game?

[sonic zephyr]

thats the neat part. you dont.

game is terribly optimized

[tired summit]

i used to run it like 80 - 100 fps stable on my gtx 1070 during the cb1,2 and OB, then season 1 came out, got worse, then season 3 onward just nuked it lol

[neon barn]

what i would suggest doing with the flame thrower is pair it with the lockbolt so your enemies can't get away so fast

[compact tundra]

Flamethrower is pretty mid but can be good with certain play styles. But note the higher the enemies health the worse it'll do since it's damage kinda scales weirdly, so lights just melt extremely quickly, mediums die decently fast but are a big problem if they have solid headshots or are running the p90, and heavy just kinda sucks to fight. When fighting heavies you need to mix in Quick Melees to help drop their health faster since those 40dmg bursts are pretty helpful.

I'd recommend running domeshield, RPG, & lock bolt. Dome shield is just free effective health and is especially good for flamethrower since you give yourself a safe space to flame enemies from, rpg is good for finishing off fleeing targets and dropping the cash box to a more favorable area for you, and lockbolt prevents enemies from escaping or running away from you, can also be pretty good at stoping melees from chasing you and putting them at a disadvantage.

As for specs they all work well

Winch is just a free yoink that lets you rip an opponent that was out of range right into your face

Mesh shield gives you a shield to protect yourself with in bad scenarios and since flamethrower does after burn you can juggle the shield and the flamethrower to make yourself a menace when they are in your effective range

Charge and slam lets you surprise entire teams through walls and finish off opponents quicker if you've already lowered their health. It's also good for chasing fleeing opponents and dropping in opponents the fled off the side of a building.

Goo gun is good for stun locking opponents and cooking them in the goo, it's also helpful for stopping enemies from shooting you while you approach and stopping them from running away from you. And it can be used to cross gaps or climb buildings for surprise attacks tho it has the highest skill floor of all the specs

[regal raft]

holy mother

[compact tundra]

I like flamethrower

[regal raft]

btw you are talking to a player who has 5 hours in the game

[compact tundra]

That's why I sent so much

[regal raft]

i read the first sentence

[serene glade]

do you have 5 hours in reading the english language as well?

[compact tundra]

That is typically how you start reading something, not many people read bottom up

[regal raft]

Nah I dont even know what english is

[sonic zephyr]

mf's expect someone to have a master in playing the finals 5 hours in

and ppl wonder why most dont stick around

[compact tundra]

My entire paragraph was in things you can do with it, not what to do once it's mastered. It's literally just a paragraph on what works well with flamethrower, most people who have mastered the finals don't exactly need a paragraph on how the heavies specs pair with the flamethrower

[regal raft]

Ill just become bow one trick

[outer crow]

flamethrower has the longest TTK amoung of all heavy weapons

[stoic garden]

you mean highest

[outer crow]

fixed

[stoic garden]

👍

[outer crow]

even in close combat u need to put a lot of fuel to kill (if opponents arent dumb) and there is no point to rely on its useless afterburn

and killing heavy with flamethrower takes years

[heavy tendon]

Would it be OP if you could hit friendlies with the nullifier?

[outer crow]

in some situations - yes

maybe in some sneaking situations

ask lights about it

[heavy tendon]

I think it’d be nice to save a teammate from being finished off. Or if someone was dumb enough to defib someone in front of the whole team you can save the teammate

[outer crow]

its better to just not revive teammate in the middle of shooting

i was doing that mistake sometimes 🤦‍♂️

[heavy tendon]

I used to do that. But in soloQ it happens a lot to me and I just end up as a free kill for them

Either way it’s a nice get out of jail free card.

[outer crow]

be carefull next time and dont use defib without healing gun much often when not in safe place!

advice from defib healer :3

[heavy tendon]

Nah I usually defib and throw a blue heal container on them. I have permanently given up my heal beam for demat.

Other two classes have healing options too. Better than the heal beam

[outer crow]

heal beam just heals faster, more, and is mobile (light heal gun heals very low while heavy heal orb is stationary slow healing) "just my opinion"

good luck in finals

[heavy tendon]

Does it? IMO it feels like H+ heals the fastest. Orb is the slowest but you can just camp somewhere with it

[outer crow]

yes, if it wasnt - nobody would using it at all

its a specialisation btw - it must be stronger than healing gadgets like light pistol or heavy orb

[heavy tendon]

I mean the H+ for lights heals the fastest IMO.

[outer crow]

i cant count of how much times i saved my teammates from death in critical moments while healing them

[outer crow]

aaa

well it heals quicker than healing beam - agree

is ok in the short term but is bad for long term

[compact tundra]

Yea, but QMs help a lot and it fucking melts lights so quickly especially if your good at predicting after burn kills

[outer crow]

well, it would be dumb if lights could tank flamethrower

dont want to imagine this 💀

but anyway its very easy for light to run away from flamethrower and kill it from outside of max flame range

except when there are close quarters

[compact tundra]

Oh definitely, that's why I've traded C4 for lockbolt and usually use my RPG to finish off fleeing lights

Also if I see a high amount of lights on a lobby I'll go winch

[outer crow]

u are a heavy mainer?

[compact tundra]

I main all, I bridge the heavy medium and light gaps, tho my true main is grapple sword light

[outer crow]

aaa

multiclass, cool

[compact tundra]

Yea, all classes are so fun I usually swap between them multiple times a match

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-dance-demoman-gaming-tf2-dancing-gif-17138310

[stoic garden]

i dont know what i main anymore

[compact tundra]

Honestly at this point about half of my matches have me playing all 3 during some duration of the match

[compact tundra]

Mains are obsolete, swap, swap every death for max fun

[stoic garden]

i could tell you I'm a lewis mesh heavy by heart then come back to light and spend the entire match camping cashouts with lh1 headshot sprays

I'd play medium more if my aim was more consistent

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I like to change depending on what enemies are giving me trouble. And since every loadout had it's downsides I end up swapping a lot and it's pretty fun

[stoic garden]

only reason i play quick cash atp is being able to swap classes

[compact tundra]

Try the model, it's a fun switch up with a bit more forgiving aim due to encouraging body shots

[stoic garden]

i just hate the super quick stealing

[compact tundra]

I agree, I'd love to see causal single round cashout return

[stoic garden]

i tried it, not my thing most of the time, I'm a famas or pike player by nature

[compact tundra]

Fair honestly

[stoic garden]

not the biggest fan of repeater

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I'm not a poke fan in particular, I don't like the playstyle and it doesn't mesh well with me. But the revolvers and KS-23 are my exception, cause I can get aggressive with them

[stoic garden]

i like some poke weapons but dont vibe with poke playstyle unless I'm on lh1

when I'm split between the two I'd just play lewis on heavy

[compact tundra]

I don't hate poke unlike a lot of other people, I think all play styles have a place in the game, I just am really not good at it. The closest I get is destruction lewis gun where I break walls and gun down from a distance with the lewis

[stoic garden]

lewising it

[compact tundra]

Wrong channel mate

[unkempt moss]

As soon as I saw people praising that we were back to SA Mesh with the new update I stopped caring what people thought about the meta.

After the last major defib train nerf I haven't felt any of these metas that people talk about. This poke meta that's going on hasn't deterred me once from playing non poke weapons at all. The finals has way too many options to really worry about meta.

[compact tundra]

I don't hate mesh SA or even Winch SA, but I do think we need more variety in the meta. Id love to see more charge and lewis/minigun, more goo flame or goo KS, just more combinations over all

[unkempt moss]

We just had mesh SA for as long as I care to remember. For people to be cheering its return is what blew me away

You dont even see these metas until diamond anyway, so I always wonder how many of these people are just parroting thingsb

[compact tundra]

The problem I think is the defib train meta that was just overall good no matter what level of play, but the newer metas are really centered around the high level of play

Cause like triple heal beam, model, double movement defib, was just good at every level of play

[unkempt moss]

I only read the first sentence typa mfs

That's what im saying. Since that was sorted in what, season 4 or 5? There hasn't been a hard meta in plat and below.

Which is the vast vast majority of ranked players.

[unkempt moss]

I kinda expect people to read when they take the time to ask a question in a specialized channel. Its not like he going in to extreme depth, it was a pretty basic overview.