💣┇weapons-gadgets

[unkempt moss]

The customization would go crazy.

[sudden pewter]

Light with DMG Boost would invalidate Heavies Frontline role and force more defensive play

Dive meta (again)

[unkempt moss]

Buuuut then we could one-shot lights.

[sudden pewter]

We could do that before and it was nerfed in 2 weeks(?)

The entire game is balanced around the existence of Light.

Lights can one tap but cannot be one tapped. That’s the rule

[unkempt moss]

Yeah but now it's okay. The light should be boosting the heavies as well murder their people.

The light damage tether the heavy and brings us to their village.

[cunning slate]

Ammo box on medium to passively regen ammo in your mag. (based on weapon)

best I've got

[serene glade]

i still cant believe they removed the sledge left click into quick melee kill on light

but i can still get 2 tapped by double barrel

[sudden pewter]

Could be cool? Might reinforce Poke holds though

[unkempt moss]

Sledge is easier and has more range

[sudden pewter]

2 tapped from a further range because Heavies have the largest frame of all the archetypes

[unkempt moss]

Giving a boosted cooldown to gadgets would be cool but it would definitely boost poke.

[serene glade]

i had a light dash at me with v9s while i was on riot shield, and its just...they think thats smart. that guy thought thats how he should win the engagement. thats the person that got sledge nerfed

[sudden pewter]

RPG direct hitting Lights should OHK

[unkempt moss]

This is and always will be an objectively correct statement.

[sonic zephyr]

ngl i think breakpoints with quick melee are so unhealthy because they make the game even sweatier by design. i would prefer them buffing stuff like the sledge in other ways

[unkempt moss]

Remember that one dumbass that said riot shield should lose 1v1s

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/jiggle-does-it-jiggle-do-it-jiggle-jiggle-cat-meme-tiktok-jiggle-meme-gif-2503182221699182412

[unkempt moss]

We already have the wepsNgadg approved Sledge buffs

[serene glade]

i sure love game feedback

[sonic zephyr]

"wepsNgadg" a name or you had a stroke?

[serene glade]

he thinks hes an alley cat

[unkempt moss]

What channel are you posting in, house cat?

[sudden pewter]

gangweed channel

[compact tundra]

I had something somewhat similar today, there's a post in #👂┇game-feedback that has a guy asking people to fill out a survey so he can gather unbiased data on ranked issues to bring to embark, and most of it is pretty standard and not bad but there's this one section that just makes me think he's a light main

[cunning slate]

The HELL is THAT?

[unkempt moss]

I thought it was malware so I didnt do the survey

[sonic zephyr]

oooh look at me im @unkempt moss im afraid of a bit malware 🥀

[unkempt moss]

The cia is after me from what im told. Can't take any chances.

[sudden pewter]

CL-40
Oh yeah it’s a light main.

[compact tundra]

I used my alt and it was just a standard google survey. Plus his yellow roll made me trust it a bit more since it's not so likely to be a bot. But that section was funny since up to that point it was fairly unbiased and tackled issues widely talked about, and then the weapons restrictions section comes outta no where

[sudden pewter]

The issue with asking for data from #👂┇game-feedback is the majority of data he’ll collect will come from actual idiots that don’t understand why they lose RS when they get knocked out in the first round of a tournament

“Why am I getting matched with Bronze players!!! Embark fix your shit!!1!!” - the Silver 4 Light

[compact tundra]

That's honestly fair, and really I don't know why you'd only ask in #👂┇game-feedback, if you're looking for broad opinion really it should be posted in most gameplay focused chats

[unkempt moss]

My favorite is when people self report about how bad they are by complaining they're placed with the terrible new players.

[serene glade]

i cant play ranked because im ranked with new people who dont know what they are doing

[sudden pewter]

Im half tempted to write off the amount of “Cheaters” in ranked as cope for having cheeks clapped but until I play ranked myself I can’t bring myself to do it

[compact tundra]

This one is a little understandable to me since I have been matched with someone as low as level 14 before while in silver and I'm level like 110 something. It's just weird a fresh install is paired with someone that's got 1145 hours in the game, but I was still in silver so I didn't really bat an eye

[serene glade]

someone said over half the playerbase was cheaters lmfao

[compact tundra]

I saw that one

[unkempt moss]

Its a lot of that. We do come across cheaters but feedback would make you think its every match

[sonic zephyr]

i mean its a fair assumption. if a game has a known cheater problem, every slightly sus player is gonna be a cheater in the eyes of a player

[unkempt moss]

The problem is thats where new players should be. But they have to learn at some point.

Im honestly okay with new players being ass. Its when I have a lvl90 that looks like they've never played the game before.

[dusky gyro]

i feel kinda called out

[cunning slate]

how?

[indigo nexus]

I thought a lot of it was problematic just because a lot of questions need a lot of background understanding which a lot of players lack for their answers to be at all sensible, and the survey did nothing to educate them on it.

There was one opportunity where you could give answers to questions which were just silly in conjunction, but I would bet a good portion of people would have picked those just because they sounded good

[compact tundra]

Oh yea, I don't really get why people get so mad getting queued with new players. Like I've seen level 110's that play as bad as level 14's. The rank just tells how long you've played, not much else. And unless you're like plat or higher I feel like you should expect to have a chance for bubs teammates, cause your still in the lower level lobbies

[dusky gyro]

Level 95 but still ass lol

[rough beacon]

Alr I’m back and I see there is drama how can I make it worse?

[sudden pewter]

We all have off days

[unkempt moss]

Not me. Im a terminator

[serene glade]

having an off day and missing shots or whatever its fine, but an off day shouldnt mean i see you just running around with your head cut off not knowing what to do

[compact tundra]

I honestly agree pretty hard but figured I'd give my two cents anyways

[indigo nexus]

My ability to strategise drops a lot if I'm having a conversation with a friend (or sometimes anyone else) about something nontrivial, which happens sometimes.

[serene glade]

at like level 90+ i just expect you to know the basics of not running out in the open and just falling over 12 times in a round. im not expecting sun tzu or shit, just not holding the height with a sword or something

[sudden pewter]

Level is a measure of time invested and not skill. I’ve seen lvl 13s drop fat logs on lvl 91s

[indigo nexus]

(my tactical responsiveness and aim varies heavily based on my mental state, which I think isn't unusual, but some good players say that they feel like they're always in a good flow state which is interesting. I only get that rarely)

[sudden pewter]

In my perfect gamer utopia players would improve at the game proportional to the amount of time invested, but unfortunately that isn’t the case

[rough beacon]

Heavy’s do damage in area when they fall from far height it increases with distance and lights refresh a specific amount of ammo without having to reload if they travel a for distance like for example you refresh 8 ammo on your M11 if you travel like 70 meters

I know this is way to late and the light one is stupid but I’m bored and I don’t know what’s going on rn.

[compact tundra]

I've weirdly gotten to a point with my main friend I play with that we just work on the same wave length most the time so talking isn't required for the strategy. Now to be fair we've been queuing together for like a decade at this point and have played a lot of different shooters together so I guess it makes sense but it's just funny that we'll be fucking discussing moon fall and I'll be domeing him from 20m away while he's reving his minigun

[indigo nexus]

Sometimes I get random teams in ranked and it feels like that honestly, how much their decisions make sense to me is the biggest predictor for how we'll do

[analog pewter]

i get lights who just run ahead alone

[indigo nexus]

that is also common

[analog pewter]

[indigo nexus]

and then get angry if you ask them to take any kind of team based action

[sudden pewter]

Diet C&S and Run & Gun

[analog pewter]

i want light to be able to wall jump and the only way i can imagine it working is as a passive perk that occupies the spec slot

[rough beacon]

I get heavies that sit on a building trying to snipe with a minigun while my no coin body is right behind them with no one around

[indigo nexus]

the people who refuse to revive are the weirdest

[sudden pewter]

They’re the main character, they GET revived. Why would they do it for anyone else?

[indigo nexus]

especially when they actively make up excuses to not revive because... you're bad because you died, or something, so there's no point reviving you

[analog pewter]

i may be bad but I can still be useful so please revive me

[rough beacon]

And then when they do they take your body and run for 100 meters and revive on the edge of the map even though I team wiped before I died of my teammates pyro made he threw on me

[indigo nexus]

when they act like that they usually see one fight and make up their mind, rather than actually have any understanding of how well you play

[analog pewter]

they need to make the revive lines sound less demanding. more demure. seeing a light die and immediately spam "REVIVE, PLEASE!" is a little tilting

i like the one that's like "help, I've turned into a statue!"

[serene glade]

its binded on your ability right, so they are probably just mashing dash

[sudden pewter]

Why should I follow my team when they should follow me???

[analog pewter]

yeah LOOOL its very funny

[analog pewter]

im heavy... i am slow....

i will admit i am guilty of leaving my heavy friend behind because I'm super routing-brained

[sudden pewter]

My team fought a losing battle, it’s not that I chose to engage at disadvantage. I’m blameless

[rough beacon]

Especially when you just respawned and your light uses all his utility putting a lot of distance between you and his body

[compact tundra]

Oh god I had that the other night, there were 2 guys on mic and one was just chilling and playing sword and the other was constantly complaining and trying to like explain how we're making him lose but the sword dude (who was his friend I think) would just explain how we were playing well and the dude would get flustered. It was really funny

[sudden pewter]

I need a leash for my P90 mediums

[unkempt moss]

This is the correct mentality of a heavy player. Heavy is the main character.

[analog pewter]

im a model medium so I am extra addicted to closing distance 😭
just lockbolt me man dont let me run away

[sudden pewter]

Anyone (assuming it’s an HML comp) starting a fight without the Heavy present is starting a fight at disadvantage

[rough beacon]

Lockbolting teammates should be a thing, it’s like the batter version of ff that’s fun but in competitive play also makes it more skillful

[rough beacon]

I personally never play heavy and I completely agree with this even though I’m a light main

[sudden pewter]

Lack of defensive utility which could potentially save a life, and only at 2/3 strength because Heavies presence is not only a bullet magnet but a locus for focus fire

[analog pewter]

i play every class, light the least because i'm scared of dying and i dont want to be blamed

[sudden pewter]

I would 100% see this being used to FF Lights

[rough beacon]

That’s the fun in it

[sudden pewter]

Same, I play every weapon with all archetypes but Light plays so differently than Medium/Heavy I need to adjust the entire way I play

[rough beacon]

Imagine you spawn in and try to dash over a ledge when you get lock bolted and just have to wait for your doom (unless you have goo grenade which the heavy could also pyro)

[unkempt moss]

Sometimes you have to kill your light to keep them in check.

[analog pewter]

i find with light i am the least consistent, like i dont have any "comfortable" weapons. i think the closest i have are the matter and throwing knives

[rough beacon]

I play light and medium cuz I know the map out of the back of my head so I’m flank boi

[sudden pewter]

Throwing Knives & ARN are my comfort picks

(ARN mentioned so another +17 skins)

[rough beacon]

I can play all light weapons some of the just aren’t fun

[analog pewter]

I think i enjoy playing bow the most but I find it so frustratingly inconsistent

[compact tundra]

I honestly think that's such a funny idea. I imagine the random minigun heavy leashing me so instead of lunging away to fight there light I'm forced to sit there and use my healing emitter on the heavy as he mows the team down

[rough beacon]

I’ve posted this test 4 times but again we go:

I think special arrows for bow could be cool, like it you come close to a fire barrel for example you can interact and you next shot is fire shot
Might be busted but it’s just an idea

[sudden pewter]

My only fear with anything limiting a teams mobility is the grief potential

Like yeah a shepherds crook would be a neat idea for Medium to save a teammate from a deadly situation but imagine someone jumping off the map and taking a homie with them

[rough beacon]

But honestly it’s pretty low compared to many of the other ideas we’ve had

[sudden pewter]

Yes, Heavy needs a 50cal Sniper Rifle with penetration and OHK’s Lights

[analog pewter]

heavy needs to be able to throw bricks. give me brick weapon

[compact tundra]

I see that but as a mostly casual player I don't really see getting leashed as all that annoying unless it's like some dumbass Shak heavy trying to make sure I cover his ass when I could've been Vietnam-ing the whole point with my flamethrower

[restive plover]

Yo unjust

[compact tundra]

Hello

[sudden pewter]

Could work if any player had the option to decline? Idk

[restive plover]

Geuss what i got a game with spear 20kill 4 death 3 assists in workd tour

[rough beacon]

Nobody would accept

[sudden pewter]

Akin to a revive, accepting is the default state

[compact tundra]

Fuck yea that's great, I'm glad my advice could help, I tried to stick to mostly general melee advice with a few common spear tips

[restive plover]

🥛

[analog pewter]

anything that can enable griefing is a bad idea in my book, game is already at its limit with the ability to grief allies with gas and fire

and the ability to grief respawns

[rough beacon]

Guess what I cracked a femboy yesterday

[sudden pewter]

New Player Experience is already ass, imagine some toxic ass throwing newbies off the map because they haven’t had the opportunity to learn how the game is played

[compact tundra]

Uhhh why do bastards have to ruin the fun for everything else. Let me put a leash on my heal beam femboy dammit

[rough beacon]

What if the player could still shoot the bolt just like the enemy team

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, I’m not allowed to leash my fudgehole because someone is trying to farm cringe comp clips

[muted condor]

I got cracked yesterday

[rough beacon]

Damn that was you? You had some fat… Assets?..

[muted condor]

Let’s say I “invested” a lot

[rough beacon]

I could tell by how luxurious it was. It was like doing to two people at the same time

[muted condor]

Ima get banned if I continue this conversation

[rough beacon]

Ya

Sorry Embark I will continue to bring good ideas if you don’t ban me

[muted condor]

Jokes on you I can’t read

[unkempt moss]

Oh yeah then how did you know you need to read that

[compact tundra]

Poor heavy mains smh

[rough beacon]

Since when

[muted condor]

Pure goo munching intuition

[vale obsidian]

how to use the opt in kill cam?

[muted condor]

About seven years ago

[vale obsidian]

I need to hold some button for kill cam to show up?

[unkempt moss]

That would be a good googun buff. Heavy can eat the goo to heal and give themselves armor(fat)

[muted condor]

Bro wants to add inflation to the finals

[vale obsidian]

question mark?

[muted condor]

Semicolon;

[sudden pewter]

• Wrong Channel
• Keybind in settings assuming you’ve set the killcam to Opt-In

Killcam is also disabled in TDM (unfortunately)

[rough beacon]

:hug_frienď:

[sudden pewter]

Wrong discord?

[rough beacon]

If you guys get this you are peak

[rough beacon]

Yes

I had to improvise

[rich mantle]

What's medium meta guns now?

[compact tundra]

Same as last season. But I'll humor the meta goblin, repeater and FAMAS

[unkempt moss]

Cerb and model

[bright tendon]

m11 meta

[compact tundra]

Fuck my take, this guys got it on the money. Cerb is peak and is hard meta rn

[thick holly]

It shoots fire and that's awesome so it has to be meta

[compact tundra]

He gets it

[thick holly]

I'm trying to learn how to play Model for when people bring out riot shield hard counters

[rich mantle]

thanks

[wraith orchid]

I propose a flail, that you can charge the attack of, increasing progressively the range, damage and destructive potential

[sudden pewter]

You will be blood eagled for daring to propose a melee weapon with range in my presence. Hominids, spear him.

[wraith orchid]

Hey, I'm not talking about hit from the other side of the map-range, just you know, 12m max

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

[muted condor]

Death penalty

[wraith orchid]

Fine, i'll keep spinning with my spear 🌚

[compact tundra]

Sadly the C4tter has spoken, you shall be flayed, blood eagled and impaled

[muted condor]

I love spinning

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-it's-just-the-way-it-is-i'm-just-the-messenger-gif-6270475095135913721

[sudden pewter]

Flail could be sick as a melee option for Heavy, but the melee AOE is covered by spear and I don’t see how the flail could avoid the same pitfalls the spear has without doing what it does but better

It’d likely be (in embarks case) the spear upside down. AOE Swings and a burst single target attack on secondary

Spear even with its range is still largely ass (Embarks fault) how could a new weapon compete in that niche without being above or below it

[muted condor]

I’d rather we not get any new melee weapon until they figure out the one they already can’t balance

[unkempt moss]

Get rid of spear. The spear chuds dont want change because if muh spin cancel, so they deserve nothing, nada, zilch.

[sudden pewter]

I’ve got it, Sniper for Heavy

[muted condor]

Amd a jet pack

[uncut condor]

I just want the Jericho 941 in a video game…

[sudden pewter]

And a throw for spear

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/fight-fighting-kick-air-kick-gif-1724417705250829699

[sudden pewter]

I’m mentally stable and free of autism so I’m unsure what that is and to research it would require me to pause my MattPatt video

[muted condor]

Share with the class please

[sudden pewter]

JUST MAKE THE SPIN CANCEL VANILLA EMBARK IT ISNT ROCKET SCIENCE

[uncut condor]

this gun, basically a practical version of the desert eagle

[sudden pewter]

Same shit we’ve been begging embark to make the KS more accurate for months and they finally do it and now the gun is better!!! (Shocker)

[uncut condor]

(practical as in it isn’t massive)

[unkempt moss]

If you play spear we are enemies. Youve chewed off your own arm and are attacking others for it.

[muted condor]

Person tells me about a new gun
I’m interested
It’s a Glock
I’m disappointed again

[serene glade]

[sudden pewter]

Too short. In my massive hands it would look like I’m holding a crayon

We need boars not domestic pigs

Now this puts some hair on your chest

Freakishly unbalanced, but reeks of power fantasy

[analog pewter]

melee weapons should have functionality on the reload key. give them more layers

[sudden pewter]

Even has a holster. If I’m to fuck a gun this would be it

[muted condor]

You’re just jealous of my absolutely god tier spear drip

[uncut condor]

this is a hammer-fired pistol its the exact opposite of a glock

[sudden pewter]

Fidget Animation to keep the monkeys entertained

[analog pewter]

for spear, reload could reset the attack cycle (so you could go first m1 into first m1 if it's desirable) and cancel spin

[muted condor]

I see polymer
I ignore and stereotype it
Simple as

[uncut condor]

not even polymer

[muted condor]

Hey, spinning my revolver at ever available moment makes me play better

I want a new spear animation tho

[sudden pewter]

Still waiting for Eclipse Shade for KS23

I get the P90 is popular but cmon Embark give it some slack, you’ve left it in the dumpster intentionally since S5

And the eclipse shade gave the P90 a ping-a-ling for whatever reason

Just a long ass schween slapped on it

[uncut condor]

also while this is very sexy, they already have a big fuckoff revolver

[sudden pewter]

My prayer is that it would be an eclipse shade skin for the BFR

[muted condor]

It looks like the one I own irl now 😔

[compact tundra]

Doesn't hold a candle to my Cerb drips sheer aura

[muted condor]

Tax stamp less p90 😭

[sudden pewter]

FAKE

FAKE AND GAY

[compact tundra]

These are baseless allegations and clear fake news

[unkempt moss]

Would look cooler with a hammer.

[sudden pewter]

YOU WILL BE KEELHAULED

[uncut condor]

I want wood furniture for the cerb it would be lovely

[compact tundra]

The skin I have basically is

[analog pewter]

i have similar drip on a medium loadout

guys please send help why are we doing this

[muted condor]

Reject edgy fits 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥

[compact tundra]

YOU CANT DO THIS TO ME, DO YOU KNOW WHAT MY RANK IS, I AM THE S RANK PLAYER, I DON'T DESERVE THIS FATE

[compact tundra]

Balanced team comp

[muted condor]

L bozo

[compact tundra]

Fuck you

I'm never going to live that day down. I'll wake up in my 40's remembering my stupidity

[sudden pewter]

Twink-death

[compact tundra]

Also this picture ruined my all S moment for me. I was so upset it just said phenomenal and not something cool like absolute cash out

[muted condor]

It really should say that for full S

[sudden pewter]

Is it even possible?

Most I’ve gotten is 3 S’s iirc

[compact tundra]

It is cause mines like actually not fake. I've gotten a few 5 S's but that was my first full S

[muted condor]

I always miss out because of revives

[compact tundra]

I'm honestly lucky 10 kills made S. That was my saving grace

[muted condor]

Kinda annoying because if you’re playing good you’ll not have any revives

[compact tundra]

There's a trick to it but you're not gonna like it

[sudden pewter]

Liar

[compact tundra]

Bruh, it is real tho 😭

[sudden pewter]

Guess we’ll have to play together and find out 🤷‍♂️

[compact tundra]

👉👈 really, p-p-play with y-you. I c-c-couldn't

[sudden pewter]

I’m going to put my hand up your ass and wear you like a puppet

Pocket Light for me to throw at my foes

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/soldier-tf2-eltorro64rus-thats-good-gif-24148028

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/harry-potter-swole-gym-lifting-yoked-gif-27561206

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-team-fortress-heavy-gif-21772094

[muted condor]

That is a 100% real end game report

[outer crow]

👍

[muted condor]

Minister gun sweep! 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥

[outer crow]

heavy weapons guy :3

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-gif-11007087996166801418

[muted condor]

Jokes aside this is the closest Iv gotten

[compact tundra]

How the actual fuck is 5 revives B. This system actually makes no sense

[muted condor]

Who fucking knows

[shell sonnet]

so full S is possible

[muted condor]

Also this bullshit

[compact tundra]

You actually got fucking robbed on that one, you get an honorary full S for that one

[muted condor]

I have no clue what they base it off of. My only guess is it was a ranked match and yours was a qm

[compact tundra]

It is but it's actual roulette if it'll work

[sudden pewter]

I think it takes into account the full match and averages statistics? So 5 revives in one match might be S but when someone else gets something like 8-9, 5 is a B

[analog pewter]

shoot thermal bore directly under the cashout to drop it
breaks the panel that the cashout is just barely not sitting on, leaving the panel it's on intact
WOW VERY FUCKING COOL GAME DESIGN

[sudden pewter]

Remember when demat would sometimes only demat props like bookcases and not the fucking wall

[analog pewter]

it still occasionally only demats a tiny fucking portion of the larger set of panels im trying to demat. for no reason

[shell sonnet]

i am so glad they fixed demat

[analog pewter]

this thermal bore mishap could have actually just lost me the match because I had no way of getting up to the cashout otherwise

[sudden pewter]

Improved Demat. Because it’s still as bipolar as a 13yr old girl

[analog pewter]

dont forget they nerfed its activation speed at the same time so now it's lethargic as a fucking sloth

[sudden pewter]

Didn’t they adjust the activation speed so it doesn’t feel like shit to whip out?

[analog pewter]

if they did I haven't felt it, it still feels incredibly slow as it was around the start of season 8

[sudden pewter]

Sad

Embark should just listen to me and me alone 😔
That would solve everything surely

Day 1 in the office and we’d have bare feet were it up to me

[analog pewter]

[sudden pewter]

When is the Weapon & Gadgets gang going to play

[analog pewter]

black cat tail would be nice thanks embark

[sudden pewter]

Best they can do is a bright red fox tail apparently

[analog pewter]

when i get over my crippling anxiety about talking with new people. but idk maybe someday soon
probably not today though i have NYE stuff to do

[compact tundra]

EMBARK HIRE ME AS YOUR LEAD, ILL HAVE MORE PLAYERS IN THE FINALS THAN ARC RAIDERS COULD EVER IMAGINE. (I'ma turn the game into chivalry 2 with the option to play a buns automatic that I nerfed so far into the ground the dogs couldn't smell its corpse)

[analog pewter]

would be nice if they also had fox ears to match but alas, only with the hat :\

[sudden pewter]

Don’t worry I’m only super handsome and very sexy I’m quite easy to talk too

I also start grunting like an ape randomly

[sudden pewter]

Inb4 PvE gamemode and BR

[analog pewter]

honestly it's bc I am a very vocal gamer and i dont wanna subject random strangers to my avgn-grade outrage

[compact tundra]

I'm gonna add the halo flood into the game as a random event, it'll be in ranked too cause no one is safe from the flood

[sudden pewter]

If you don’t randomly spout an anti-OHK Manifesto every time you’re instakilled by a DB I don’t want it

[sudden pewter]

The shitty Halloween LTM but ranked

God it was awful

[analog pewter]

hell ill do it about snipers too

[compact tundra]

Honestly that sounds like a more fun version of the Halloween ltm. You fight a horde of flood and if you die you spawn as an enemy with a flood on your face

[sudden pewter]

Halloween LTM was so dogshit literally anything would be an improvement

[analog pewter]

honestly DB doesn't infuriate me as much as playing into winch BFR, that shit is such an embarrassing fucking gimmick that these rubes have grown to rely on and I know that because they lose any fight where winch is on CD. but they still fucking win games because winch is available often enough they can play around the cd

[sudden pewter]

DB infuriates me when they beef both shots and get away because Goo Grenade + Dash

[analog pewter]

dash just annoys the fuck out of me period
it's like, a very shallow imitation of the movement mixup scout tf2 has with double jump

[exotic marten]

best hammer loadout rn?

[analog pewter]

i hate having to play the 50/50 every frame because they could just dash and re-materialize in a different zip code at any moment

[compact tundra]

I liked it honestly, but towards the end of the event I did find a game break strategy.

Just sit in a corner of the map, break all the tree, and let your turret back you up

[sudden pewter]

I’m fine with Dash as a concept but I feel there could be a CD on how spammable it is or perhaps -1 charge

Same with Winch, displacement makes sense for Heavy since mobility is off the table, but unfortunately its main draw atm is the stun and not the displacement

[analog pewter]

i think as-is they should make it only usable around the peak of your jump, so you have to initiate jump inaccuracy + telegraph it with a jump
but that might feel really weird to use so idk. I'm just kinda trying to recreate how much more interesting scout is

[sudden pewter]

Scouts mobility within the context of TF2 makes more sense due to how horizontal maps are beyond props. Not sure it could fit well into The Finals due to the verticality(?)

[compact tundra]

I get the hate for dash, but the problem is lights viability at higher levels and the fact that all 3 dashes are needed to throw off good players aim. Same problem with adding a cool down between dashed, double dashes are so needed for top level play

[analog pewter]

the fun thing about scout's movement mixup is that it's punishable. a lot of playing vs scout is baiting him to double jump so you can abuse the fact he has to fall to the ground before he can jump and double jump again. it's a window of opportunity
dash doesn't quite feel like that

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, Light needs more viable options besides dash

[analog pewter]

maybe dash should always move you a little bit off the ground, and you cant use it until you touch the ground again?

[analog pewter]

grapple NEEDS cd refund for short grapples. NEEDS
to a minimum of 5 seconds would be just fine

[cerulean furnace]

Dash for vertical movement, Grapple for horizontal. Doesn't sound too bad

[sudden pewter]

What

[sudden pewter]

I think you’ve got that backwards

[cerulean furnace]

may gotten my directions mixed up actually

[analog pewter]

well grapple is more of an escape/positioning tool while dash is a movement mixup. grapple has stronger vert and horizontal but it's more committal, slower to activate, and easier to follow

[cerulean furnace]

Dang

[analog pewter]

im also unfortunately ass at light w/dash so I struggle to play meta light 😔

i like the grapple too much it's the most fun

i think they should nerf dash a healthy amount but then give light a wall jump

assuming wall jump can make up for however they nerf dash, you'd end up with cloak and grapple at a slightly higher baseline, dash would be around the same level, and playing light in general would be more interesting

and it gives the other two specs a worse but still existent movement mixup

and all the titanfallers can rejoice

no wall run because determining a surface players can wall run on would be hell in this engine, but a wall jump just needs to check if its a surface that is at an angle the light can stand on

idk thinking out loud

[sudden pewter]

I like that Light can be just as disorienting for the user as it is someone fighting the light

Unfortunately my big milky naturals enable me to kill Lights with as much ease as a kindergartener would crush ants

[analog pewter]

whenever im getting diffed by a light i swap to minigun

[sudden pewter]

Real

[analog pewter]

idk why but
it just works
youd think that tracking such a fast moving target would be harder than just nuking them with like a shotgun or smth but it's not

[sudden pewter]

But I also mainly use Minigun so that’s for any matchup

The accuracy buff while stationary is so good

Generally it’s bad to be stationary on Minigun but it helps when applicable

[analog pewter]

wish they applied it while strafing and firing. standing perfectly still can be a death sentence and i avoid doing it as much as possible

[compact tundra]

To me that's kinda the point tho, you gotta pick between easier headshots and being a practice dummy, or moving and being a bit less accurate. Cause I think people often forget outside of dual blades a minigun is unbearable in a straight 1v1, it's why I hate lockbolt minigun so much, it's just a death sentence if done well

[sudden pewter]

Minigun can be out DPS’d quite handily by corner peaking (same weakness as TF2)

Revolver, Repeater, Model, and quite a few others handily give heavies their asses on a plate

Even the Bow is particularly adept

[compact tundra]

I get that, but in a straight 1v1 minigun is king, and I think that's a good justification for its current spot in the balance. I don't really think it needs anymore buffs

[sudden pewter]

Yes in a 1v1 with no other players or cover the Minigun beats most weapons handily

[compact tundra]

Hell with good setup it can take 3v1's. I just think it's in a good spot rn, it's downsides weigh out it's upsides pretty well

[sudden pewter]

And I agree, I don’t think it needs more buffs. It’s tiptoeing the line as it is

If it becomes Meta I won’t be a cool hipster anymore

And it’ll be nerfed because brainless idiots can pick it up and do well rather than accounting for positioning and LoS

[compact tundra]

God this community and the devs response to it scares me. Every patch note I get a little scared the flamethrower is gonna get the CL-40 treatment

[sudden pewter]

Yeah. If only every player were as smart and sexy and good at video games as we 😔

[compact tundra]

If only

[muted condor]

Not really, all you need to do is stand more than 20m away and you’ll beat it

[sudden pewter]

Erm aktshually ☝️ 🤓
With the recent accuracy buff (while still) the effective range of the Minigun in context to accuracy is roughly 20-23.5m assuming the player is adsing while stationary.

[muted condor]

Erm what if I just disemboweled you? What about that?

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/the-weak-should-fear-the-strong-cat-the-weak-should-fear-the-strong-cat-the-weak-should-fear-the-strong-gif-9908234591166092966

This isn’t even 3% of my power fool.

[topaz glade]

M11 is probably the best weapons for light

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/67-67-kid-edit-analog-horror-phonk-gif-3349401281762803381

[compact tundra]

White role moment smh

[sudden pewter]

One of Two things happened:

• He got destroyed by a sword light because he’s sub mid gold
• He had a sword light teammate that went 0/12

There is no in between

[analog pewter]

Make deagles more reliable pls thanks

[hardy dust]

Both at the same time

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/525991695918301244/1432060484063985766/Editor.gif

Is the Pyro Grenade really any different from throwing a hive of angry wasps? Area Denial with lingering DoT after contact for a brief duration

[compact tundra]

The wasp chase

[unkempt moss]

You guys think Rek is coming back

[analog pewter]

Would a tactical insertion be a decent gadget? Not letting you respawn for free but letting you coin in or team respawn at its location when respawn is available

[grim wigeon]

Why not give light a m79 thumper

[analog pewter]

Not on light.... on medium

[grim wigeon]

Really?

[analog pewter]

Sorry not replying to you just myself

[grim wigeon]

O ok

I’m new so

[shell sonnet]

If anything gas
Since they fly and dont just stick to the floor
also flammable

[grim wigeon]

Why does no one want heavy to have a sniper

[sudden pewter]

Light is an ideal sniper due to several factors:

• High vertical/horizontal mobility allowing repositioning and substantial sniper perches
• Low health forcing the Light to reposition once focused

Think for a moment, and riddle me this: Why would Heavy as a sniper be cancer?

Tip: You can cheat and look up “Heavy Sniper” in this channel because this has been discussed to death

[rough beacon]

It’s like the bfr titan but with zoom scope even more damage on a character who can make a forcefield around him

[sudden pewter]

Yes!

[rough beacon]

It dates back all the way to this moron for two years and still no one gets it I never thought of the idea myself but I did think of a knockback railgun that doesn’t do damage as equipment for medium which is somehow much better than whatever this monstrosity is

[analog pewter]

the light sniper shouldnt even exist and only does in order to coddle a very vocal minority of players who think the only expression of skill is clicking heads once

we should feel lucky it's a bad weapon. imagine if it one-tapped mediums or even heavies

I just got queued with two BRAND NEW PLAYERS WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED BEFORE
INTO THE SWEATIEST FUCKING WINCH HEAVY I HAVE EVER FOUGHT
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH MY MMR?????

I love EOMM I love forced losses I love being punished for ever doing remotely well

I love how I'm just not allowed to have any fun whatsoever playing this game. just never again. I'm not permitted

[stoic garden]

the answer is playing cloak lh1 and only tapping heads

[analog pewter]

ask me how i feel about this game too. my very next fucking game

[stoic garden]

also this game uses sbmm but it's kinda scuffed (because what does it judge exactly) and that's exacerbated by low player count

[analog pewter]

we were triple heavy and we lost because BOTH TIMES when we killed 2/3 of their team our third heavy went off alone to cash in the box and died to the remaining light, while we were still around where the cash box was. so the third light stole and by the time we made it there their team had respawned

that third heavy fucking threw and it was maddening. like you dont fucking abandon the teamfight just to put the fucking box in, what was he thinking???

pretty sure that was the guy with no kills too

[stoic garden]

sbmm cant account for momentary brain fog 😦

[analog pewter]

if it uses SBMM then it's got me in a bracket consistently higher than where i fucking should be which makes me just want to quit. because there's never any way these systems lower your mmr appropriately, if you get over-rated you're just stuck there forever

[stoic garden]

guy has the most objective, so that's probably it

[analog pewter]

either I'm getting stomped and carried by better teammates or I'm expected to carry new players against seal team 6

I never have a match that feels fucking balanced anymore, I'm only suffering. I don't even get matches where I stomp, it's JUST uphill every fucking time

[jolly rover]

Pretty much my experience too, hard to go against 3 stacks with bots lol

[gaunt ermine]

Same

[stoic garden]

i like that matchmaking now at least prioritizes matching stacks with stacks

i play with 2 other friends most of the time and one of them gets an average of 20 kills per match, the next match he gets 2 after we get match with john finals steroid squad

very reactive system

[unkempt moss]

Lets go ahead and get the BFG50 in

[rough beacon]

I like sniper it’s nice and balanced and if you don’t like it than you are wrong

[jolly rover]

That's false, if it prioritizes stacks v stacks, why am I always up against 3 stacks with a team of random bots?

[unkempt moss]

I think the sniper feels bad for the game mainly on the player side. It's an instant downer on the game when you load in to see it. You know the likelihood of having a 2v3 scenario is way higher than it would be on any other light weapon. It can be nice and balanced, but I still think it would make the game better if it was not in there.

[stoic garden]

logically, there's not an equal number of solo and stacked players queuing at the same time

also embark literally said they added it around last season or so

then again, matchmaking will never be fully reliable so idk what to tell you

[jolly rover]

Its just that every single game this season, im up against 3 stacks in a clan, and I'm stuck with low level players that couldn't hit the enemy point blank. I really don't think the match making is balanced in the slightest

[unkempt moss]

And I'm saying that as someone who has a third occasionally that plays the sniper. So I can't get my own friend to play with the team on it there's very little I'm going to be able to do with a random

[stoic garden]

that must suck, my matchmaking is rather ok when i play solo ngl

[jolly rover]

It definitely sucks, this season has been the worst, like most of the time my team couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a nuke lol

[stoic garden]

but usually I'm with 2 other light teammates so i just hop on lh1 and have some fun annoying people at range

winning is very hard with triple light so i just rather do goofy shit and train my aim

[stoic garden]

that was me a few months ago lol

been playing since season 1 but my aim has never improved until about now

mostly due to average 40 fps on lowest possible resolution

[jolly rover]

I've all but given up on winning, I just play for the kills now to appease my feels lol

[stoic garden]

real shit lmao

best way to enjoy this game is to fuck with random loadouts or play with friends

both for the best effect

[muted condor]

I play to make sure someone else get beat down worse than me

[stoic garden]

idgaf help me spread lh1 propaganda

[jolly rover]

Likewise as of late lol

[muted condor]

Sorry, I preach the word of the mini gun around here

[sudden pewter]

A major issue with Snipers is the disparity between gamemodes, Powershift in particular is prone to having players holding the objective vulnerable to absolutely massive sightlines 90% of the match where the objective holders can’t dislodge snipers

So unless their team also has a light, that is also running a sniper to counter snipe, and is actually killing them there’s nothing to do

[unkempt moss]

Do you think banning sniper for PS would be good?

[sudden pewter]

Fuck no

I’ve written PS off as I did TA and I’m waiting for it to be removed

I have no idea what can be done to the sniper to keep it fair aside from gamemode specific balancing

[unkempt moss]

I was thinking on how to fix that problem. I think doing shield walls that extend up vertically so you could shoot out but not in from a certain angle would help.

[sudden pewter]

That sounds horrendous

[unkempt moss]

They would be broken down like a mesh shield until the platform is reset.

The real answer to powershift was my pirate ship idea, but that would be way too much work.

I think I would like powershift if the mode got tweaked.

To me its like how Point Break is "ruined" by launcher spam. Getting creative on the dev side would help a lot.

Im really not a huge fan of modes being removed from the game. Even things like terminal attack.

[sudden pewter]

I understand why it’s done, overhead costs to maintain an incredibly unpopular gamemode is still overhead. But I agree, I don’t like content being removed.

[unkempt moss]

I think terminal attack could have been popular enough to keep around.

They just went to far making it the premier mode.

[analog pewter]

Point break has honestly made me completely forget about power shift. It's just such a better big team mode. I wonder if PS would play better with 8 players so you could allocate more to fight off-point

I bet if we had statistics for modes by player count, PB would be #1 right now and would probably stay top 3 in the future

I almost exclusively play PB and h2h

[eager wasp]

powershift fell off, it was great in the past but now its just unfun

[edgy wagon]

HAPPY NEW YEAR MY FELLOW FRIENDS!!! 🔥 🗣️ ❤️

[vague tangle]

happy new year

[slow linden]

Ah,embark may never change

[slow linden]

The powershift meta is very stale despite them nerfing things because of it(was a bad idea btw)

[jolly rover]

Anyone else think swords are too OP? 2 tap kills and 100% bullet deflection right back at you? You cant kill them head on, you have to somehow get behind them without them 2 tapping you, and unload a mag into their back? Needs a serious nerf

[analog pewter]

If they're attacking you they can't block and if they're blocking they can't attack, generally they're only good if they catch you alone. Staying near your heavy can counter them pretty nicely

They're one of the weakest weapons in the game (both medium melees are quite bad) but they're situationally strong

It's all about reducing your exposure to situations where swords win

When you see a dual blades user alone it's often good to just turn around and run to create distance before trying to fight them

Also explosives counter them completely. If you're struggling try using the cl-40 or flamethrower

[unkempt moss]

this is correct

try to play a little drunked new year light and i have to play with 10 other lights

what are we doing

[sudden pewter]

Needs a buff bro

[grizzled fulcrum]

Nerf bow holy shiiii

[analog pewter]

Hell nah

[unkempt moss]

People begging for buffs on light are actually delusional. If a fat drunk idiotic boomer can roll lobbies theres zero excuse.

[sudden pewter]

Light is a skill-check that gamers at large fail consistently

[unkempt moss]

I will not have it anymore.

Why isnt heavy a skill check? Why do they always have to be made weaker for people when they get something really good.

[sudden pewter]

Assuming the information provided by Embark is still correct, Lights make up the majority of players.

Lights also have the lowest winrate.

Meanwhile, Heavies are the least popular of the three archetypes. But Heavies also have the highest winrate.

Do with this information what you will.

[unkempt moss]

Just cut from a different cloth, and they dont make thaf fabric no mo

It is odd to me that so much of the pop is light players.

[sudden pewter]

Likely due to it feeling so familiar to other FPS games, the amount of mobility & burst damage Light has access too make Light fairly easy to play assuming you don't run out into the open with no cover

[unkempt moss]

I guess its weird because I usually want to try new things with new games. Trying to emulate something im already playing doesnt really connect with me.

But everyone plays for their own reason I suppose.

[copper hazel]

nah

[slow linden]

Griefing should be a bannable offense,shit is so toxic and anti sportsmanlike

[slow linden]

Go double barrel for the funny

[quiet shadow]

SniperShotgun + zipline is so ass toxic as hell

[slow linden]

That's funny and also not griefing

[quiet shadow]

copium...

[slow linden]

Griefing is when you groom a shit team in tournament or ranked and go out of your way to fuck over better teams in order to get an easy win by qualifying with the worse team

[slow linden]

Nah,just a loadout,loadouts shouldn't be banned don't be poo

[quiet shadow]

oh that is griefing? not 3 sniperL with zips who stole 2 boxes on WT and rekt whole lobby just for giggle

[slow linden]

Sniper is also mediocre I have no idea why you have beef with it

[quiet shadow]

definitly not... i guess

[slow linden]

No that's a bully squad

[quiet shadow]

sniper+melee scripts is not a probleme at all

btw its onetap mid

[slow linden]

Scripts are bannable

[quiet shadow]

not at all

[slow linden]

Regardless of weapon,scripts are bannable

[quiet shadow]

its not allow to use but how game and anticheat do with this is giga question

u can just bind ur mouse to do 2 func ant one shoot and qmelee

[slow linden]

Some might not be detectable(for now),but if you are caught you will be banned

[quiet shadow]

its litteraly a knife but without frontstab penalty

[slow linden]

That's not scripting you starved turnip that's just rebinding

[quiet shadow]

nah ok, idc.. do what u want

[slow linden]

You can literally change your binds in the game settings gng

What is vro on

[indigo nexus]

I have a script that lets me sprint without holding key down, you can turn it on in settings

[mortal pewter]

season 6 v9s skin is so cool

[novel prism]

Hello @compact tundra thank you for filling up the form, I totally get that this question might seem a bit biased. The reason I am this question asking is because I've noticed that at lower ranks, some players find certain weapons—like swords, dual blades, or the CL40—a bit overwhelming. It's not that these weapons are bad in themselves, but newer or less experienced players might feel like they can't really keep up when going against them. That can make them feel like it's just too tough and sometimes even push them away from enjoying the ranked experience altogether.

I also want to make sure that the players who prefer using more skill-based weapons still have a fun, balanced time. So this question is really about understanding how we can help everyone have a good experience, no matter their rank or playstyle. So your feedback is super valuable to help figure that out!

[plucky spade]

0

[upper pelican]

buff pike

[unkempt moss]

What is considered a skill based weapon? Something that has to click heads?

[serene glade]

Mgl

[unkempt moss]

Wouldn't that be a low skill weapon? It looks like if you dont have to put dot on something its a low skill weapon. But it could just be a phrasing issue

Confirmed Googs "MGL savant" Orima is low skill lmayo

[unkempt moss]

The community uses the term griefing for when you bring the lesser team up to avoid playing another team. I don't know why they call it thar instead of like sandbagging, or like he said grooming. Grooming probably not gonna fly though it's funny.

[stoic garden]

grooming is crazy

[novel prism]

Aim control, not just spam weapon, me personally I don't have an issue with any weapon but I did hear players in lower rank hating melee weapons and cl40.

[stoic garden]

lh1 subliminal messaging

[indigo nexus]

I wonder if a lot of the low ranking player population seem to put aim on such a pedestal due to other skills simply not being employed much in their lobbies? Maybe not.

There just looks to be a general trend there in terms of ignoring non-aim skills when discussing weapons.

[upper pelican]

idk just buff pike

[sonic zephyr]

yeah buff the pike it sucks rn

[upper pelican]

Real

[indigo nexus]

Small buff I agree with

[sonic zephyr]

just turn it into the deagles ngl. weapon feels terribly unconfortable rn

[indigo nexus]

But I must say I don’t fully understand the state of the pike. It was not popular in low-mid ranking lobbies despite being meta, and I don’t know why since superficially at least it didn’t seem hard to use.

Without understanding exactly why that is, it is very hard to determine if any changes are a good idea

[sonic zephyr]

well theres something i noticed even in tournaments and such but in close range battles pike-players would simply resort to hipfire and faith. so i can assume that the pike is simply unfun despite being so effective

[indigo nexus]

I wouldn’t be so hasty, but I haven’t really gathered people’s opinions on that

[sonic zephyr]

idk man were not doing scientific research here were in A FUCKING DISCORD SERVER

[indigo nexus]

(Curiously, pike always has had relatively bad hipfire, but a lot of people insisted it was good at it? Was a bit confusing)

[sonic zephyr]

i've never heard ppl say it had good hipfire. it was very oppressive at range and in close range you would have to rely on your mates to help you out while you hipfire

whatever you've been cooking up better be worth the wait unjust72

[compact tundra]

I do get why you'd include that section given this context, but I still do think the idea of aim as a skill being the skill we should consider revolving ranked around is a generally poor idea. Aim is one of many skills in this game and many of these weapons embody the other skills this game caters too especially at a high level, even tho these weapons aren't good enough on their own to really warrant high level play. Sword is a great example of how far the movement of this game can be pushed, cl-40 is a good example of how well you can pair your weapon with your gadgets (i.e. mine combos), dagger is a super spec reliant weapon that can really help people realize just how much a weapon can be carried by your spec usage, ECT... I just think the idea of weapons like these being seen as not indicative of what ranked is about kinda does a disservice to this game's every unique design. And I fully understand adding things to help represent every level of play but I do think we shouldn't take everything new players say at face value and necessarily give it a platform. New players lose to these weapons cause there still learning the finals and typically people who play the unviable weapons are gonna trend higher in the skill level cause that's the only players who can make them work (with the exception of sword that still functions quite well when just dashing and spamming M1 sadly). I just think when you add a section asking of these honestly bad weapons should be removed from ranked, we not only encourage weapons specific hate, but also allow new players to feel like there hate for the weapon is a valid point, rather than something born from a lack of understanding around why they're dying to these weapons. Tho this isn't necessarily a critique of you or your survey, just kinda something I wanted to talk about since this is certainly not the only instance of this stance, hell you added these questions because so many people have this stance.

[sonic zephyr]

aight im asking chatgpt to summarise that

[compact tundra]

Bruh 😭

[compact tundra]

If you're actually going this I kinda wanna see the summary

[sonic zephyr]

its so weird to have this obsession with how much "Skill" a game should have.

Like games are entertainment software primarily. shouldnt the first priority of a game to be fun?

[sonic zephyr]

aight you made me curious brb

Chatgpt said: "The writer argues that centering ranked play around aim alone is a poor idea, because The Finals is designed around many skills beyond aiming. Weapons like sword, CL-40, and dagger showcase other high-level skills such as movement mastery, gadget synergy, and specialization usage, and treating them as “not representative” of ranked undermines the game’s unique design. They believe newer players often dislike these weapons because they don’t yet understand why they’re losing to them, and that players who succeed with these weapons tend to be more skilled since the weapons are generally unviable on their own. Including survey questions about removing such weapons from ranked risks validating uninformed frustration, encouraging weapon-specific hate, and framing learning gaps as balance problems. While not criticizing the survey creator personally, the writer wants to challenge this commonly held stance and explain why it’s flawed."

This is hardly a summary...

[compact tundra]

I mean we're specifically talking about ranked so the skill idea makes sense, I just don't like how aim is put on this pedestal while other skills are seen as less important and therefore shouldn't be catered to

[sonic zephyr]

fair enough context indeed helps at times

[compact tundra]

Gonna be honest that summary is pretty spot on, it was just a dense paragraph so the summary is barely any shorter

[cold ingot]

My account has been mistakenly banned. I am sure of that and ready to provide any evidence I can. I am an experienced player in the finals and I know the terms of use and would never dare to violate them.

[exotic marten]

u sell accounts

[cold ingot]

no sure

[outer crow]

trust me, there are more dangerous weapons that light has

[polar idol]

which one is best. ive been using the m11

[outer crow]

Not specialist in the "best things"

[polar idol]

aight then close range

[outer crow]

sword+dash (obliterates casual matches if used well),

[compact tundra]

Arn is the most versatile, XP is comparable with damage but a little less versatile, 93r is just fucking cracked all around, and the V9s is doing pretty well rn

[compact tundra]

1 flamethrower appears

[outer crow]

not 100% guarantee still

[sudden pewter]

“Doing pretty well rn”

[compact tundra]

I said it in a goofy voice IRL so I had to type it out like that

[sudden pewter]

I was trying to find my clip where the entire lobby but myself was Lights using the V9S

[compact tundra]

A couple months back I played a tdm match where the entire enemy team was miced up cloak V9s lights roleplaying as solid snake. They all had matching snake skins

[compact tundra]

How the fuck did you have a reaction clip up in sub 5 seconds, like that's gotta be a record of some kind

[sudden pewter]

TF2

[fathom cove]

why dont we have the manifex sight on arn

[unkempt moss]

Video games are how I derive my self worth. Not fun.

[slow linden]

It should be but some people's ego can often siphon the fun out of a game with random nerfs to fun,the sandbox is running out of sand,the sand is being stolen from us

[compact tundra]

Honestly I kinda hate this because the sandbox elements and skill expression don't have to be diametrically opposed, they can co exist quite well in my opinion if they just took more time to balance things and figure out more creative solutions to the problems they want to solve, rather than just removing the sandbox elements and introducing poke metas

[unkempt moss]

Ill never forgive skill chuds for losing all the Gootech

[slow linden]

They gutted sword,removed the skill from it and turned it into a brainless spam stick that is honestly less fun to fight than old sword,they did the same to sledge

[compact tundra]

And I hate that, I wish they'd just take more time to realize why their game is so fun and balance around that, rather than looking at what every other shooter does and trying to imitate that in the finals

[slow linden]

They gutted everything that worked with winch instead of gutting winch too

[unkempt moss]

I feel like it just went from m2 spam to m1 spam

[stoic garden]

sword now has crazy movement with lunge jumping, a delight to the user, a curse to the opponent (if they dont got good aim)

[slow linden]

Another thing if winch is such a problem and it's going to burden heavy this much just remove winch

[slow linden]

M2 spam required aim,it was fine,m1 is a sweep that you hardly have to look at them for,it was designed for m2 spam and m1 for finishes

Now it's just brainless flailing

[unkempt moss]

Wasn't it just brainless flailing on a different button before the nerf? The angle lock means you can't just pool noodle in to a group

Seems like the angle lock would mean that the m2 takes more skill now.

Unless I'm understanding it wrong

[slow linden]

Tech that embark will undoubtedly remove,they have a habit of removing melee techs and animation canceling

[unkempt moss]

It almost seems like its functioning more like what youre saying after the lock.

You guys think Rek is coming back

[slow linden]

No matter how much people like an unintended feature embark will spitefully take it from us

[compact tundra]

So the lock stops 360's into crowds for massive multi hit damage, but that could also be mitigated by just removing the multi hit. Something they added without sword mains asking for it and have slowly systematically gutted the weapon to justify its addition. And I don't like people calling it M2 spam cause it isn't really spammable. The lunge has a noticeable wind up, and it's a very punishable wind up with decent aim. To me that's like calling minigun spammable, it doesn't make much sense to me

[slow linden]

The only thing that actually needs limitless multihit is spear

[serene glade]

The real meta is realizing sword was never fun

[unkempt moss]

Its a lunge... the margin for error should be very small. You're getting more damage because you're taking the risk. It shouldnt cleave really at all. And yhe reason its called spam is because you guys make it seem like you would just use it over and over.

[sacred cypress]

Is it very difficult to rank up this season, I'm struggling

[slow linden]

It used to be engaging though,and now it's not,dagger and cloak used to be a usable loadout,and now they're not

[unkempt moss]

I think the problem could be that you guys got away with using a poorly design melee weapon for a long time and they fixed it to be more in line with what the sword should act like.

[slow linden]

They keep nerfing melee to shit

[unkempt moss]

Now if the case was made to make it act more like a different kind of sword i could see that. But I think the standard look is like a saber or something.

[slow linden]

Not the case for sledge,could be argued for sword,but I never even used sword before it was nerfed,just fought it and it was better before

[compact tundra]

By that definition spear spin is spam, a heavy just M1-ing or M2-ing the sledge is spam, someone using M1 on dual blades or riot shield is spam. And it also ignores the fact that lunge "spam" was only really used on heavy, whose combo was 3 lunges. Light was lunge + qm and medium was lunge + swing + qm. I mean it'd seem that way to heavies but the only reason we used 3 lunges on heavy was cause they didn't have applicable combos, Not because we spammed M2

[slow linden]

The experience of fighting sword was more interesting

[serene glade]

the only problem with sword always just felt like dash, and dash is a problem because the servers arent real

[compact tundra]

I feel like dash makes the new sword even worse than it did old sword tho. Cause dash on old sword was used for super dashing, while on new sword it's to stay on a target to keep swinging

[slow linden]

I wouldn't call medium melee spam,it has only one venue of attack,so it cannot be spam,duel blades has one additional situational attack but that's only if your enemy is greedy,for duel blades to work at their peak your must ragebait your enemy

[unkempt moss]

No one uses the M2 spear by using it over and over to any success. M1 is your primary fire, meaning it almost definitionally cant be "spammed." You can make the case for combos and what not but they keep nerfing those for all melee. No one worth talking to is going to say stop spamming your primary attack.

[slow linden]

Riot shield being spam is the most ridiculous idea I've seen to date

Nah maybe not that far but it's pretty silly

[serene glade]

I spam looking right with riot shield and running at people

[unkempt moss]

I truly think the problem is that the sword is inherently a boring weapon to use.

Even the lights other melee is far more engaging because of what it takes to make it work.

[slow linden]

Literally just how it's supposed to be used,do not lower yourself by calling it spam

[serene glade]

I was joking

[slow linden]

Jokes aren't allowed here,the vast majority of finals players can't grasp them

[serene glade]

🧎‍♂️

[slow linden]

It's why everything that I say here is either my unfiltered horrific opinion or rage bait,I cannot afford anything in between

[serene glade]

I do think it's crazy people complain about dual blades when riot shield is just better in every way. The deflect is somehow worse this season, it feels like my deflect isnt even returning fire

[slow linden]

Truly wish the deflect worked like genjis deflect from counterwatch

[unkempt moss]

I wish it was as consistent for sure.

[compact tundra]

Before I continue I will say I don't necessarily want sword reverted. Tho I'm ok with a revert to old sword I think this is a better solution.

Remove multi hit and either remive clamp or buff it to 145°

Lunge = 125dmg
Swing = 86dmg

L= secondary fire/lunge
S= primary fire/swing
QM= quick Melee
TD= tracking dart

Light
L+qm
S+S

Medium
L+L+Qm
L+S+Qm
S+Qm+S+Qm
L+L+TD

Heavy
L+L+L
L+S+L+Qm
L+Qm+S+Qm+S

This keeps sword as not hard to use by newer players, but makes combos more rewarding and fixes most my issues with new sword

[slow linden]

This would be acceptable

[compact tundra]

Also sorry if I don't have all the combos, I just took a nap on my break and thinking is hard

[slow linden]

Perfection is not expected of you,you have done enough

[unkempt moss]

My solution for sword is to buff lunge damage so its more rewarding. Reduce m1 damage so its not two tapping lights. Make it 74 or something

[compact tundra]

The only way to do that is revert to old basically old sword.

Lunge 136-140
Swing 74

[unkempt moss]

That's fine. The damage wasn't the problem.

[compact tundra]

But the reason I don't prefer old sword is it could 2 lunge mediums which encouraged that M2 spam problem that people didn't like

[unkempt moss]

The problem was the multi hit and brainless m2 beyblade

[compact tundra]

I like that with the new numbers you have to Lunge + Lunge + QM for medium

[unkempt moss]

So you just want new numbers plus beyblade

[compact tundra]

Not really, what I really want is for the lunge to have a sensitivity nerf like ads-ing does but apparently M&K can override that so it's not an option. I don't like the beyblading, I just want to be able to hit combos reliably again

[compact tundra]

Also I don't know if I've said this to you before but I'm on controller so I never could beyblade, I'm on Xbox controller so no gyro controls

[unkempt moss]

I think sword is the spear of light in that people are so entrenched in what the weapon was/is that they don't see what could be.

It sounds just like when spear users talk about muh spin cancel

But it did lead to the best buff for hammer I've ever seen.

[compact tundra]

The problem is the mains have already found what is fun about the weapon, if we change it from that then you kill what people find fun. These are already niche weapons with dedicated fans and straying too much from what they love is essentially adding a new weapon and removing the one they love. It's why I understand mgl and spear mains when they don't want the weapon reworked

[unkempt moss]

I wonder how much of that is ego and wanting to be unique online for street cred. Because the MGL absolutely needs a rework or a lot of help. There isnt a single weapon on heavy that I wouldn't be excited to see a big rework on just for the novelty of something new and fun.

But, I main GooGun. Not a certain weapon or gadget.

[compact tundra]

I kinda disagree there, I think minigun mains would be pretty mad if we reworked it into something completely different, ShAK mains probably wouldn't like it if shak was made into a standard LMG or AR, KS-23 and Sledge mains probably wouldn't like if we removed the destruction from there weapon even if it meant a buff was coming. People like these weapons because of how they are designed, so reworking them in a way where it basically becomes a new weapon will always raise the question of why did you have to remove what I had fun with to essentially just add a new weapon

[unkempt moss]

I'd agree if the weapon changed so much that it didnt function how it looks. If the minigun got reworked to shoot like the KS but ultra buffed it would make sense. But sword and spear users are fighting against the weapon functioning more in line with the actual weapon.

[slow linden]

As a minigun main I wouldn't mind if it was projectile but also 90% accurate

A little spread remaining for some character to the weapon,but not enough to matter

[vivid hound]

Lockbolt dissipates too quickly

I'm sure if it was a light gadget it'd have like a 5 second duration

[compact tundra]

It has an 8 second duration

[vivid hound]

Only when it catches someone, when it doesn't, it just puffs

[serene glade]

we are not complaining about missing shots cmon mannnnnnnn

[vivid hound]

I'm saying it should remain for at least 3 seconds before disappearing

Whether it catches a player or not

[serene glade]

just dont miss and it locks someone down for 8 seconds, and its a generous range, cmon mannnnn

[compact tundra]

But the problem is your defining the weapon by its standards on paper, I'm defining it based on how it's played in reality. To spear mains the spin cancel is how the weapon functions, not something opposed to that. This is really just kind of a thing where the mains know how the weapon functions and the people proposing these changes just know how the weapon looks like it functions. I don't think the ideas are bad they just aren't how the weapon functions and why ignore the mains of a weapon when deciding where to take the weapon

[vivid hound]

Or maybe make it a 3 bullet weapon? 1 is too little, and it refills too slowly

[serene glade]

if you land a lockbolt it should shift the fight in your favor...you are not winning an argument where you think you should be rewarded for messing up

[compact tundra]

Both of these ideas would break the lockbolt cause it's already pretty powerful on certain weapons like flamethrower and minigun, personally I think the lockbolt is in a great spot rn

[unkempt moss]

Reverse that. In reality the spear spinning around like that would be dumb and a death sentence. The standards are its a spear. But it functions more like a bostaff and a halberd or something. Spin canceling is obviously not intended.

[unkempt moss]

He probably saw people asking for sword m2 buffs and figured this was the spot to do it.

Because they added a sort of spin cancel to one mode and didnt implement it. Every goo tech nerf has been the result of people using unintended interactions.

Same with the kick flip

[slow linden]

2 lockbolt charges would be reasonable,3 is very excessive

[unkempt moss]

Brother, please. Im begging you. Lockbolt in some circumstances can cause a full team wipe.

If we're begging for heavy buffs please pick something worth it.

[compact tundra]

That I understand, the "Spear" in game is more of a glaive or a greatsword than a spear, and I wish they had added it as a great sword initially but we can't change that now. Maybe we could rework spear and add a spin weapon that is more fitting but that's kinda just adding a new weapon with most the spear skins and then separating some of them and the current spear mechanic into a new weapon. Trust I fight buhurt so I know my medieval weapons and calling that thing a spear hurts my soul but the deed has been done

[unkempt moss]

My problem is when I propose a spear throw, and the reason is that the spin exists.

Even coexistence with the spin. It cannot even move buttons. How do I work with someone like that?

[compact tundra]

Yea I get that, I don't hate the spear thrower either, and hell I don't think it'd be awful as a reload button ability

[analog pewter]

id like to see spin reduce incoming damage while spinning, and then have spin cancel implemented as a feature

[compact tundra]

As a sword this hurts my soul, spear would even more ass to fight 😭

[analog pewter]

my general opinion is that heavy melee should counter light melee so thats not a problem to me

[unkempt moss]

If it was up to me id give spear a small shield to fight and get rid of the bum ass spin.

M2 block, m1 throws when blocking after a charge.

[compact tundra]

God id love a shoulder shield on spear, but that might be so ass to fight as any class

[compact tundra]

Why tho 😭, they already do counter us

[analog pewter]

yea exactly

[unkempt moss]

It would jusg need to block less than riot shield and the heavy's movement is slow enough that they would get much space.

[analog pewter]

also sidenote i only just learned the other night that this game has omni-sprint but only if you have auto sprint enabled?? what the scallop

[compact tundra]

Huh?!?

[analog pewter]

i disabled auto sprint when i started playing so I never once experienced sprinting side/backwards

[unkempt moss]

Yeah you can sprint backwards. Its weird looking and I dont know if its full speed.

[analog pewter]

yea but it only works if you use auto sprint

which is bad in other ways (increasing hipfire bloom)

[compact tundra]

Why has this not been screamed to the heavens, 1000+ hours and I'm just now learning this

[analog pewter]

it should literally be something you can press sprint to do like lol wtf

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/the-incredibles-meme-gassy-incredibles-mr-incredible-meme-gif-16951082123294203219

[compact tundra]

Does auto sprint work mid air, like is this gonna mess with sprint queuing?

[analog pewter]

i honestly have no idea. I dont want to use the feature lol

[unkempt moss]

Do not come

[sudden pewter]

I woke up from my nap and someone has the audacity to say the lockbolt needs buffs???

[unkempt moss]

Okay you can come

[analog pewter]

do you guys think charge and slam has a place in the current meta

[compact tundra]

I want to say yes but results kinda tell me no

[unkempt moss]

I think CnS needs my patch notes but its the best beginners spec on heavy.

I don't think it needs to be meta.

[analog pewter]

I just cant give up the utility of being able to create a doorway and a panic hitbox at any point

[unkempt moss]

Panic hitbox is the problem i think.

[analog pewter]

yea but i tend to use it more often for doorways :V

[unkempt moss]

You'll love my patch notes then.

[analog pewter]

i use CnS so liberally just to route

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. Youre a G.O.U.F Patch believer

[analog pewter]

do you have a document
i have one that I should update

[unkempt moss]

Working on it.

[boreal laurel]

Yes

[unkempt moss]

I refuse to make an ugly Google doc though.

[analog pewter]

my google doc is quite pretty actually

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HHjAfTELum1Id4J6XCBnNWfKqJ8tXxDgaCpoTTD4uUY/edit?usp=sharing

[unkempt moss]

I'm using a publishing program for mine.

Lets see if theres any idea i need to steal

[compact tundra]

I like to think goo king is Dr.T from boom beach and that his balance changes are his evil plans

[analog pewter]

I might remove the KS-23 note since the buffed KS is actually decent now

[vivid hound]

Team wipes are worth it bro lol

[unkempt moss]

If evil plans means fun then yes. Theyre hella evil.

[unkempt moss]

I was happy to remove my KS23 note.

[compact tundra]

I stubbornly stand by mine, I like my ks-23 idea

[compact tundra]

By chance what are your sword, Cerb, and flamethrower changes

I wanna see how my mains fared

[vivid hound]

Team wipes with the lockbolt take planning, but are very rewarding

[unkempt moss]

The flamethrower and cerb buffs come from the system change of fire being anti heal. The flamethrower is a never ever change but something I want.

[compact tundra]

Aight same as mine then, pretty solid

[unkempt moss]

They dont need much help. I want the flamethrower to be able to create thrust with m2 where youre pointing.

[vivid hound]

M60 and Lewis gun buffs were so welcome, I'll glad they happened. Before now they felt like a water shower for targets

[unkempt moss]

Expends fuel twice as fast but gives you as much thrust as like an antigrav

[compact tundra]

Before the buff lewis gun was a viable off meta pick and was actually meta in Asia regions, m60 is fine tho

[unkempt moss]

That's my never ever change

My favorite never ever change is my V9S SR-84 change.

[compact tundra]

So what are never ever changes?

[unkempt moss]

Things that are so drastic that they wont be implemented, but its more for my own creativity and fun. It is GooKing's Official Ultra Fun Patch after all.

But they contain things that are balance changes I would make.

[compact tundra]

Ok fair enough, I had one for dagger that I'd never want to see added cause it changes dagger so drastically but it'd be fun

[unkempt moss]

Hit me with it

[rough beacon]

I know shouting at your teammates is never a good idea but I think there are esceptions…

[compact tundra]

Also this is an old one so probably worded weirdly

Rapier & dagger, so you hold a rapier in your right hand, and a reverse grip dagger in the other. Tapping your main fire makes you stab the rapier dealing 70 DMG,
(3 shots lights, 4 shots mediums, 5 shots heavies)
it swings a bit slower than the swords main fire. Holding your main fire causes you to charge up the dagger stab which on face deals 70, but on back deals 180. Charging the dagger doesn't limit your movement but it does stop you from using your other attacks or abilities.
(Back stab 1 shots lights, back stab + stab perfect kills medium, 2 back stabs kill heavy)
Holding alt fire makes you charge your rapier, charging your rapier doesn't effect your movement. upon hitting an enemy it does 70dmg, but does 3 meters of knock back, hitting the ground or a wall knocks you 3 meters opposite of where you hit. It's best to be mid air when launching yourself since friction still slows you down but you can use this as a mini rocket jump. So looking behind you and towards the ground would send you in the air and a bit forwards/backwards from where your looking at the ground. I think this would make dagger super fun since not only can you now take fights without backstabs, but you can jump over people and knock them away when the pressure is to high. You can clear gaps with this and jump over some walls. I say 3m but that's with friction, I think if you jump just before charge attacking the ground than 4-5m seems fair to give a good boost. I think this gives dagger a good movement option and more versitility without making it a complete sword clone and giving it a unique function.

It started as like one of my first rework ideas and is pretty bad but I still think it's stupid goofy fun

[unkempt moss]

I love crazy changes. This is kinda similar to my v9 SR84 changes

I'll leave out all the baalnce changes, but my never ever is to combine the S(84 and V9S in to a weapon called Chimera. That way light has a greek mythology named weapon as well.

[compact tundra]

That's cool, how would it work?

[analog pewter]

did u peep my doc

i havent put my crazier ideas in yet but im thinking about it

I just need to think them through....

[unkempt moss]

Tapping the weapon equip would swap between them. The V9S gets its range reduced immensely in favor of being an absolute demon up close which I have outlined. The SR-84 becomes full projectile but increased projectile speed and given terrible hipfire.

Its basically to fix my two problems with each weapon and make something unique

[unkempt moss]

I'm still reading through it

[compact tundra]

This would make me cry, I finally close in on the sniper terrorizing me and they pull out a buffed V9s, I'd shit my pants and chimp out

[slow linden]

Lewis needed that one damage buff,it feels perfect now

[rough beacon]

Anyone down to play rn I’m getting the worst teammates in world tour

[compact tundra]

I'm at work rn sadly

[rough beacon]

Darn

[unkempt moss]

Right now people are using the Sniper as a shotgun and the V9S as a sniper so it'll be fine.

[slow linden]

I'm going shopping rn,were I free I truly would have aided you

[unkempt moss]

Do you have notes enabled?

[analog pewter]

think so

[unkempt moss]

Might drop a couple.

increased recentering on the .50. Does it recenter faster or slower? Just want to make sure I understand

[uncut crescent]

Whats the best light loadout and reserve

[rough beacon]

Are you new to the game?

[uncut crescent]

Ya

I unlocked every light playstyle tho

[rough beacon]

Then play whatever you want and get a feel for different guns there are strong guns but for example I’m really good with sniper so I play it even tho it’s out of meta

That’s the best advice I have for new players

[uncut crescent]

Ok ig ill try

[rough beacon]

Gotchu come back later when you find your gun

[uncut crescent]

Should I just try them in practice range

[rough beacon]

Prolly real match

[compact tundra]

It's best to try different weapons out in games and see what you end up liking. I'd say just play the game with different weapons and see what does and doesn't work for you

[rough beacon]

For light dm could work if you want to do it quickly but remember that dm it’s different to normal play

If you want I can play with you btw I’m on rn and I’m bored

[uncut crescent]

I find the arn 220 the besy

[rough beacon]

Alr it’s pretty good

[uncut crescent]

And dagger 2nd if I use vanish grenades

[unkempt moss]

Besy = Best and Easy. I love that.

[analog pewter]

slower, increased time meaning a longer time

change meant to offset the reduced bloom so the shot pacing requirement is still about the same

[uncut crescent]

For gadgets I find gas best to steal and gravity vortex to stuns them and tracking dart to track them

[unkempt moss]

Whats your overall design philosophy with this.

[uncut crescent]

Just rdy for anything

[analog pewter]

me?

with the deagles or in general?

[uncut crescent]

Idk what ability to use the grappling hook and cloak are both so good

[rough beacon]

The dash is meta but I like the hook a lot

[uncut crescent]

But the dash is so short how is it the meta

[unkempt moss]

Overall. Your guiding principles.

[idle pulsar]

well, why do you think 3 dashes would be good? lol

[rough beacon]

It’s a dash that can confuse people’s aim close distance they refresh fast and when you do one into a vertical jump pad you go flying

[uncut crescent]

I think i get it

[rough beacon]

The hook takes time to refresh and only gives you good vertical movement and the invis is very predictable and takes a lot of time to refresh

You wanna play or nah otherwise imma like do it myself

[uncut crescent]

Who

[rough beacon]

You

[analog pewter]

i just got put in a point break match vs a 5 stack of fucking NTMR people

[rough beacon]

Yikes u wanna play

[analog pewter]

literally gremlin in there

[rough beacon]

I’m so lonely someone please 😭

[analog pewter]

i did kill one or two of them so i can now claim I've killed ppl who won the grand major

but yeah i mean we ate shit obviously
i killed ryan tho

with the deagles no less

[uncut crescent]

Wish u 2 good luck ig

[analog pewter]

i will not be lobbying rn

[compact tundra]

Bruh you actually got bent over by the match making

Honestly I wanna turn, I wanna chance to crack the pros

[uncut crescent]

I wish I could put a optic on my guns

[analog pewter]

i cant tell if this is a result of low SBMM or high EOMM type shit

I think it was bound to happen to someone, it's not like NTMR players have many people in their skill bracket so they have to match downward anyways

[uncut crescent]

How do u put a optic on ur gun btw

[compact tundra]

I don't think the game has ssbm, just rank matchmaking for ranked. And also I know it sucked for you but I'm actually so jealous, I genuinely would love to fucking fight those bastards, I wanna crack at them. My ego is insatiable and I wanna shot at taking them on

[compact tundra]

You go to like your weapon skins and then go over to the sights tab. Not every weapon has extra sights tho

[uncut crescent]

Ok thanks

[rough beacon]

Go to the gun select it and then scroll through the tabs I think it right after skins

[jolly rover]

The unlucky 5 stack, that's a dreaded match lol

[analog pewter]

idk lol

[unkempt moss]

I think the changes are fine. Some of them i wouldn't necessarily choose, but they aren't bad.

I would the next step is to kind of come up with a design philosophy so that they can give your balance as a whole a more cohesive direction.

The first section in mine describes what the guiding principals are for the document. That way when I make a suggestion for change it is meant to represent those principals, and it also helps keep me in line when I design things later.

Then looking back, it feels good because the whole document feels like a complete package rather than seemingly random how I started out.

[sonic zephyr]

aint reading allat. just nerf charge n'slam again

[unkempt moss]

Wasn't talking to you so that works out.

[unkempt moss]

I do like the headshot change on sniper. I have the same thing for my weapon change.

But that came with coupling it with the V9S.

I think it would be a good change overall though. I think to help with clunkiness of tapping the walk while crouching you could also just introduce a movement speed penalty while scoped and crouching walking so it feels a bit smoother.

[ocean girder]

is it just me, or am i expecting too much for the ultimate battle pass gun skins to at least have their own unique animation (like the wonton warfare skin, even though i dont use it lol)

[serene glade]

considering they only ever add skins and never add balance changes, yeah id expect a little more from them in that department

[unkempt moss]

Buff MGL damage by 1

[serene glade]

muh breakpoints

[slow linden]

Die

[proper portal]

Kriss vector as an SMG for any class idrc

[eager wasp]

i would not like to see that, i'd like to see a round of fun weapons added to all the classes, something silly even

[unkempt moss]

DO NOT TRY TO HAVE FUN

[eager wasp]

famas part 2

[winter eagle]

frr

or a crossbow

With a sniper scope

[unkempt moss]

What if we trade SA for Cerberus between medium and heavy

[serene glade]

give heavy the dagger

[unkempt moss]

I am a newly minted dagger main

[serene glade]

and light the sledge

[unkempt moss]

No

[serene glade]

embark swaps all the weapons around and brings back their dartboard balancing system

[unkempt moss]

Yes

[dreamy trellis]

A specialization for the medium class that lets you have duplicates of the same gadget in your loadout as a passive ability, and you can drop an ammo create for your teammates with a long delay that instantly restores their gadget cooldowns with one or two uses for each player on your team.

And a time warping specialization on the light class that brings you 7 seconds back in time when activated, restoring your health to what it was prior, same goes for the bullets in your magazine and the damage you dealt to enemies, which will be cancelled too. though if you get a kill and then use your ability the enemy won’t respawn.
For balancing purposes its cooldown must be very long.

[rough beacon]

Inflated chidcell

[unkempt moss]

You guys think Rek is coming back?

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/disgusted-meme-horrified-terrified-scared-gif-3323387587618421013

[analog pewter]

Give cerb a fourth barrel

[unkempt moss]

Bulletstorm was too far ahead of its time.

[potent scaffold]

I’m touching all of you next season with my ruby riot shield

The lights shall suffer

[noble monolith]

ill just strafe left and shoot you

[slow linden]

Give heavy something chambered in this

[unkempt moss]

Does double damage against invisible opponents.

[proper portal]

HEAVY WITH A LONG SWORD

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-elite-knight-fantasy-sword-great-sword-gif-17782074

[slow linden]

Give heavy the dragon slayer from berserk

[proper portal]

Exactly what I'm saying

[slow linden]

Yes

[hardy dust]

Unironically a great sledge skin

[slow linden]

True but a zweihander could be it's own weapon,and the dragon slayer could be a skin for that

[hardy dust]

Yeah true

But at the same time it would be tough for embark to make another heavy melee thats distinct and also not terrible

Whereas a sledge skin is super easy and we might actually get

But I'm all for more melees and other niche weapons

[slow linden]

Right mouse is wide sweeping attacks,alt could be a chargable poke/stab

[sonic zephyr]

i would rather want spear fixed and made viable than having another melee weapon for heavy

[shell sonnet]

I feel like if we add another melee/shotgun, the other classes will complain and want one too

More balance nightmares

Climbing claws couldve been a cool movement weapon (if it wasnt a dual blades skin...)

[sonic zephyr]

If our main concern is "What is balanced" and not "what will enrich the sandbox and make this game more fun" embark might as well stop doing any content because every bit of content will disturb balance.

[icy egret]

Pointbreak ❤️ death by a thousand needles

Anyways, why should goo grenade get 2 charges? I lost 4 kills that game due to goo grenade having 2 charges

[crimson wedge]

Heavy Specialization: Berserk
The heavy contestant can overhand fire a minigun and kool aid man through walls, what even stops them from just punching holes in walls and enemy contestants? Perhaps they just need to be riled up for it, so let them be.
With the left hook and right hook assigned to corresponding mouse buttons, for a time short enough for only about 5 punches if the user immediately rapidly swings, those punches have power enough to break holes in walls in just 2 hits as well as adding power to thrown props during the berserk effect.
Looking up enough when punching will do an uppercut with increased knockback, while a single airborne downward punch from a jump or fall might send someone through the floor with the conservation of momentum.
Just like with all their other specializations, heavy contestants will be visibly Berserk and forgoing their main weapon in favor of the two guns they were born with, leaving themselves vulnerable to actual firearms… unless they are already wielding melee.
Instead of a right hook, heavy melee weapon users instead have the option to throw that weapon; sledge gets an overhead tomahawk throw while the spear is used as a javelin.
If you’ve read this far into this inside joke that has had a paradox of too much and too little thought put into it, the next part below this will be a REAL suggestion.
KS-23 balance? Allow double loading without needing to empty it and/or slam-fire when holding the right mouse, it's just in a bad spot in between the BFR and sledgehammer with no solid identity to help it stand out. Plus a heavy slam-firing a KSG would be so very on brand.

[icy egret]

1 charge is enough

[icy egret]

I would be down for anything called Berserk. Any content which has had a Berserker, it's my favourite to play usually

you can tell by the red of my dress

[sonic zephyr]

people are always so hellbent about balance. i've seen GENUINE DOGSHIT games and when i asked what the saving grace was or if there was anything good about it?

"Well uh its balanced"

Yeah i never bothered to check but i have a feeling that Splitgate has better balancing than the finals and most other games since its an arena game, yet this game never took of and its rerelase struggles to get above 1000 players.

Now im not saying that balance is not important but for 95% of players a game being not fun is far earlier of a point of faillure than balance concerns.

[icy egret]

If you have to ask that, then you've never played a game with not great balance

It's extremely unfun.

[sonic zephyr]

i didnt because these games most of the time neglect just about anything else

[icy egret]

In my favourite game in one of the PvP modes, my favourite subclass, the Vindicator is really bad

I want to play it so bad, but it's just so awful, and it's very unfun

[sonic zephyr]

what game?

[icy egret]

Guild Wars 2

[sonic zephyr]

oh yeah i always steer clear of pvp in mmo's. they never figure it out

in just about all of them its more about who has the better build really

[icy egret]

The mode is good

The game is great in general, way better than any other MMO

But what you want to play being bad sucks

[sonic zephyr]

no im dying on this hill that PvP in mmo's are simply not good. I can assume that guild wars 2 is a good mmo but i will never agree upon mmo's having even a chance of having good pvp

[icy egret]

No, the PvP mode is very good

[sonic zephyr]

i simply dont believe you

[icy egret]

Well you're just being obtuse then

[sonic zephyr]

my loss then

[icy egret]

That wasn't even my point (Even though GW2 is arguably the best game of all time in its design)

The point is that when the balance is bad, the game is bad

A weapon deleting everyone left and right? Not fun

Your favourite weapon being awful? Not fun

A strategy that feels impervious? Not fun

[livid cradle]

Lol splitgate is not balanced

[icy egret]

No matter how good a game is, a game won't be fun if you're suffering from extremely poor balance

[sonic zephyr]

idk but its probably not even in the top 10 problems that it has

[livid cradle]

True and it is still very enjoyable

[sonic zephyr]

its dead on arrival idk about thata

[livid cradle]

Sgar wouldn’t be dead if 1047 would market their game more, I only found out abt sg2 from a friend

[sonic zephyr]

oh they had their stage more than enough ppl know about this game. its rather that the marketing of this game was so attrocious that most ppl just wrote if off and moved on.

[livid cradle]

Lol I never saw any marketing even after I got it

[sonic zephyr]

i mean i wouldnt market it either really its a lost cause

[brazen valve]

Hi gays

[crimson wedge]

Speaking of weapons that have no right mouse function, the MGL32 grenade launcher should get aimed/angled more or less slightly upward without the need to look upward; this would help for indoor fights where bouncing grenades off the ceiling would be more ideal without having to lose sight of a target. Such a simple QoL ability would help less experienced players use the difficult to master weapon more than whatever pointless squinting contestants do with it.

The flamethrower, while some if not most think of the TF2 airblast as a good idea for a right mouse option, it just isn’t for the finals for many reasons. The main reason being forcibly moved or bounced isn’t as fun as proven by the contestants who whine about the winch claw, and the same has been said for the effects of the TF2 airblast.
The best thing I could think of was an overpressure mode that allowed for slightly greater range at the cost of narrowing the cone of fire, costing extra fuel and reducing movement, but even that seemed somewhat wrong.

The spear right mouse spin is… a complicated topic as the forced double spin hurts it but a single spin would somehow make it crazy with its combo potential.

The SA1216. At least it's usable with its more recent stats, I wouldn’t even try to think how a heavy would use its sights or what a right click should do if anything. Maybe slightly better stability at the cost of movement?

[sonic zephyr]

i think the mgl and cl simply need a trajectory shown like when throwing grenades when ads'ing

also if they wanna give shotguns a propper rightclick just give em tighter spread when ads'ing. just like in every other game

[livid cradle]

Wait does it not do that already?

Super unrealistic mechanic tho

[upper pelican]

Make pike 3 tap light

[icy egret]

Hm. I've been doing some aim training again like in the earlier years of TF2. It has improved my aim a lot

But the Akimbo's hipfire is still complete ass

it feels like I'm suggesting shooting the enemy

[sonic zephyr]

yeah im glad the finals is staying realistic.

irony off. talking about realism in the finals out of all games is crazy work

[shell sonnet]

true
i kinda hope for more gameshow-y weird stuff

honestly
movement dual blades that can climb walls would be dope

[livid cradle]

I was talking abt the mechanic in general, a shotgun doesn’t get tighter depending on where your eye is and this is a feature in most modern games like battlefield cod and insurgency sandstorm, so the finals is actually more realistic than most games in that sense

[neon barn]

ah hell yeah
RPG best heavy gadget in my opinion

[neon barn]

so in the finals, even if you ADS with shotguns, their pellet spread doesnt get tight?

[valid vault]

i thought that's how it worked

[livid cradle]

Me too

Ask @sonic zephyr hot gamer dude

The model something lever action shotgun has a tight hip fire spread so it wouldn’t surprise me

Il test it out

[eager wasp]

no, adsing shotguns does absolutely nothing

except the ks-23, i think if you ads that one it will get a little more accurate

[neon barn]

yeah that one you can't even ads, you just get your gun close and you still hip fire sorta

[sonic zephyr]

also the bloom stays the same doesnt matter wether you move, stand still, crouch or are midair

[unkempt moss]

Third Strike is the greatest fighting game of all time and the balance is objectively terrible.

[serene glade]

They HATE to see my twelve

[unkempt moss]

I do for sure. Play a decent character

And stop ghost posting in game feedback. You obviously have a problem.

[unkempt moss]

Gets solo'd by Goatchi

[rough beacon]

This guy is stupid

[shell sonnet]

Nah

[sudden pewter]

Winch is super underpowered and hasn’t been viable in forever.

[analog pewter]

No

That would needlessly slow down shotgun gameplay. Their entire hook is maintaining accuracy while moving, jumping, etc

[compact tundra]

Bro imagine if the double barrel or SA could tighten their spread 💀

[indigo nexus]

I think this would suck as it’d kill a notable advantage of shotguns, that being that you’re more mobile while hipfiring

[stoic garden]

shak50 found dead in a ditch

[sonic zephyr]

how? i didnt even talk about nerfing the hipfire. if anything it would be a straight up buff

[stoic garden]

yea why make shotguns better at mid range tho, most classes already got tools to force some close range fights

[sonic zephyr]

because its really weird having an ads that does litterally nothing. lots of weapons suffer from this

hell maybe put an alt ammo type on rightclick or SOMETHING, because as of right now its just lazy

[dusk terrace]

Imo two weapons that need an alt fire the most rn in this game are the flamer and googun

Shotguns are fine the way they are imo although for some it would be nice to introduce a new niche

[compact tundra]

It helps with micro aiming on controller, it just has little use on M&K

[dusk terrace]

As a console player I lit never ads lol the micro-adjustments are in no way more worth it than the movement

[indigo nexus]

Whenever any change is suggested to something, I assume every other trait of it would be adjusted slightly in the opposite direction for identical viability. Viability is already handled by the devs and in the long term shouldn’t be affected by weapon design changes.

So to me this change would only make shotguns less unique.

[compact tundra]

I mean that's a you thing, I keep my sensitivity high for sword so adsing on shotguns is pretty useful for me. That's just a aim style thing

I'm also bad at moving the thumb stick a small amount so it helps me a lot

[dusk terrace]

My ads is like 460/430 for sword and dagger😭😭 ig we js different then but yeah that's my view on it

[wet night]

how do I get better at guns

[compact tundra]

That's really a play time thing but aim trainers help a good bit I hear

[shell sonnet]

Looks over to every second heavy running it, getting free kills left right and center

But im sure youre gonna explain to me how thats fine somehow

[compact tundra]

But you see heavy has free kills by birthright and to dare suggest heavy needn't have it is a sin

[faint steppe]

If you play MnK Aim trainers help a lot especially if you have never used them before. Most people don't even realize how bad their aim actually is.

Besides that I would recommend focusing on either tracking weapons (any automatic weapon) or non tracking weapons (Revolvers, Repeater, V9S,LH1) and get a feel for them in the practice range / learn recoil patterns. And after that it just comes down to using these weapons in-game vs players.

[unkempt moss]

Because as a googun player, the winch bows down to us anyway. The winch wishes it was as strong as the GooGun.

[compact tundra]

I did find it really weird that goo gun counters winch pretty well but we still didn't really see any goo gun during the majors or really even too many in the qualifiers

[sudden pewter]

We’ve gone a total of 17 days without “Irons on Sniper” suggestion. Reset the counter

[compact tundra]

I really hope sniper never gets a non-magnified sight. I feel like quick scoping should be a skill check for hitting close quarters shit for sniper. Tho I guess without the magnification it's just a hit scan bow with a clip so maybe it won't be as bad as I'm thinking

[sudden pewter]

Being hipfired and having your grape popped is already aids, giving Lights essentially an OHK Shotgun that’s effective against other Lights to 40(?)m is so stupid

And of course, it’s a light suggesting it

[compact tundra]

Yea I get that, and I don't want to see it. But I have to think would bow be broken if we gave it a six shot clip and made it hit scan, it certainly be better but idk if I could say itd break the weapon, and this is the same thing as that

Idk I certainly don't like it but when the context Is framed differently it doesn't seem too broken, especially if we gave sniper a more punishing reload

[unkempt moss]

I think its not as immediately effective as winch in most cases. Its a free pick on a coordinated team with winch. GooGun can make up for a lack of team play in pubs

[sudden pewter]

Sniper is (currently) balanced by its scope-in time favoring long range engagements opposed to CQC ones. (Hipfire should be way worse IMO)

A Red Dot would remove scope-in almost entirely while also giving Sniper Lights significantly more peripheral vision which allows them to lock onto heads easier

[unkempt moss]

It should basically be a miracle that the sniper hits from the hip.

[compact tundra]

I agree with that. I think sniper should probably have worse hipfire and maybe a more punishing reload. But idk what to buff to compensate since it's certainly not meta in any way as is

[unkempt moss]

The problem with the sniper is its only weak because of the game its in. The game is built on destruction so the sniper will almost necessarily be outside of building shooting in without a lot of success. Or they'll be inside fighting in LH1 range or closer.

The very best scenario is the light relies on the team to pull it out so they can get a shooting gallery. In which case any gun with range can do well

The upsurge in healing also really screwed over sniping. Basically anything besides a light doesn't need to be scared of sniper because they will just step back and heal any damage

[daring helm]

0/10 ragebait

[sudden pewter]

Sniper will always be OP in Power Shift due to the absolutely insane sightlines on the objective at any given time, and mediocre in most other modes due to the style of play it should support.

The uptick in CQC Sniping tells (me) that there’s a hitch in the way it’s balanced, as the dedicated long range rifle shouldn’t be so effective in ranged an SMG should be.

[serene glade]

I wish I understood the thought process of people thinking winch is broken. Is it mainly light players upset they got caught and spamming dash to get away isn't working as easily now or? If I get winched it's normally my fault so

[daring helm]

was*

[serene glade]

Still gets complaints to this day. Even before...meh

[sudden pewter]

The issue players had with Winch is that its displacement was secondary to the stun it provided.

[compact tundra]

No people still complain it is broken, tho I like where it is and I'd personally only add a wind up rework

[unkempt moss]

I am newly a dagger main. Ive only been winched once so far.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/67-67-kid-edit-analog-horror-phonk-gif-3349401281762803381

[daring helm]

I meant that it used to be too strong, they brought it more in line (partly bc of the mesh buff)

At high level at least, i'm sure most people know the usage percentages in s8

[unkempt moss]

Listen, if you can play heavy it makes you pretty good at dagger i think.

Its definitely not easy, but its probably the most satisfying light weapon.

Needless to say, I'll be begging for dagger buffs from this point forward

[compact tundra]

I agree, the only thing I'd like to change is to add a wind up so it's a bit more telegraphed and not an instant grab.

My idea would be the heavy swings the winch around 1 handed and it makes a loud chain rattling sound. For every rotation it gains 5m of distance up to 15m and every rotation takes .3 seconds.

1 rotation/.3s gives a 5m winch
2 rotation/.6s gives a 10m winch
3 rotation/.9s gives a 15m winch

This is a rework cause it's worse on closer targets but now has a father range

[unkempt moss]

If i remember correctly, sniper was very strong in Terminal Attack as well.

[sudden pewter]

I will have you stoned in town square

[unkempt moss]

Us light mains outnumber you, bud. We have more stones.

Anyway, I should be able to throw the dagger.

[daring helm]

there is something i have to tell you

[unkempt moss]

I dont want to lose backstab. Just let me throw dagger.

Could be its primary fire. Throws two daggers, no reload.

[serene glade]

Turn it into a ballistic knife

[daring helm]

you get to throw it once and lose it for the whole game 👍

[sonic zephyr]

this but unironically

and when they pack-a-punch it they can revive teammates with it

[unkempt moss]

Id still find a way to beat down some lights.

[daring helm]

qm exploit is there for you (unless they fixed it i dont remember)

[unkempt moss]

Until I get to a rank where other lights on actual weapons are out killing me, no one is allowed to say anything.

[proper portal]

A rail gun

[icy egret]

I don't know if any other Akimbo fans also feel this, but I feel like I get pretty focused if there's another Akimbo player and will target them

As if it's an ego thing.

And I do usually win those duels because hitting headshots on an Akimbo user is piss easy because you have to ADS beyond melee range

[rough beacon]

That deos knockback to players and vaults and also makes small hole through walls ya bud I already had that idea (it’s a gadget)

[compact tundra]

I will actively switch to sword if I see another sword player. It's an active challenge

[icy egret]

Right!? That's so accurate

[muted condor]

Mini gun on mini gun violence is always funny

[rough beacon]

Whoever charges first wins no matter what

[icy egret]

Akimbos vs. BFR in TDM