💣┇weapons-gadgets

[hardy dust]

+2 dmg and no rpm change would make it stupidly op

[near scroll]

the fact xp has 34 bullets pisses me off

[hardy dust]

Also it should honestly keep the ammo because its got terrible damage per mag rn

[near scroll]

it already has the lowest dmg per mag as is, why not let that be its identity?

[hardy dust]

If it gets +1 dmg it still has mediocre damage per mag but not terrible

[hardy dust]

It's still gonna have low dmg per mag, but it's not such a huge weakness anymore

[near scroll]

yea so why not +2 dmg -4 mag size, that accomplishes the same thing

it'd be 540dmg per mag instead of the current 544, however dps (with 850rpm instead of 860rpm) would go from the current 230 to 255

[slow linden]

They should honestly completely undo the v9s buff,it was fine before now its just kinda cancer

[hardy dust]

The dps change would make it stupid strong and also makes the damage per mag worse

[near scroll]

and if we keep the agressive 50%ish dmg falloff it has now, it'd still be significantly worse at range than stuff like ARN

it's true looking at numbers more 255dps might be too much lol

maybe 800rpm instead of 850

[hardy dust]

I think 1 more damage and slightly lower rof fixes the main issues without introducing new ones

[hardy dust]

Eh I just think they went a bit overboard with the upper boundary on the range

[near scroll]

after running some quick maths it seems 17dmg 850rpm 34mag is equivalent to 18dmg 800rpm 30mag, so i suppose it's personal preference at that point

[indigo nexus]

Not true at all, the V9S had way better mid-long range performance than the M11

Its thing was being good at very close range, bad at close-mid range and pretty good again at mid-long range, and it was the only weapon that really fills that role

[neon slate]

Which sight is functionally better for the pike?

[near scroll]

upon further inspection, m11 had slightly longer range between falloff start and end, and retains 10% less dmg per shot, taking recoil into account i can see your point but i think saying they were that different is a bit exagerrated

[indigo nexus]

• no recoil + more generous mag also made a big difference to this end

[near scroll]

does this account for missed shots?

i see it mentions hipfire spread

[indigo nexus]

No, though that wouldn’t make any clear change

[near scroll]

ok just making sure

[indigo nexus]

This is not assuming hipfiring

[near scroll]

yeah just making sure, strange info to have on the graph, seems like it'd lead to confusion (case in point lol)

[indigo nexus]

the M11’s recoil is a major limiting factor for its ranged performance unless you are very good at controlling it, but you don’t actually need to move your mouse with the V9S

[indigo nexus]

It’s important info when comparing the weapons

[near scroll]

yeah but not relevant for a ttk over time graph

[near scroll]

also this graph makes it seem like V9S is just better M11 lol

[indigo nexus]

the image isn’t just there as a graph, it’s a general weapon comparison

[near scroll]

wtf are these strange jumps in V9S' TTK btw? how come it starts with a faster TTK than M11 but then becomes slower when less than 10 meters away? neither of the weapons are affected by falloff at that range

[indigo nexus]

It pretty much was (is, but less directly). However, M11 has really good in-air accuracy which is a stat I don’t measure, which made it viable at high elo, while the V9S does not

[indigo nexus]

At point blank range it shows with optimal quick melee usage

[near scroll]

oh okay

[indigo nexus]

I should write that down on the graph

[near scroll]

it's strange how the falloff doens't apply in a linear way, i always wondered how they handled that

[indigo nexus]

Well it does, just TTK isn’t linear to it

[near scroll]

oh nvm, maybe it does but it's bc shots to kill yea

[indigo nexus]

If I posted the per-class comparison the lines would be jumpier as you could more clearly see the breakpoint changes

[near scroll]

could you send a graph with current V9S and XP please? i'm curious to see the evolution of TTK

[indigo nexus]

Will do, not right now though

[sonic zephyr]

fym evolution thats all a hoax we were made by god!

ah wrong evolution nvm...

[indigo nexus]

darwincel spotted 🚨

[near scroll]

and that god is a goo blob, riiiiight?

[near scroll]

be sure to ping me when you do please, else i'll miss it. thanks btw :)

[indigo nexus]

wait, wrong v9s profile

[near scroll]

thank you :)

xp is so bad 😭

[indigo nexus]

here's the per-class graphs

the V9S buff was very big, so this nerf didn't quite undo it

[near scroll]

yeah not surprised lol

[indigo nexus]

curious that the v9s does best against lights here

wait no what am I saying, that's the expected state

[near scroll]

seems like both guns are pretty consistent proportionally to class hp

i'm not spotting a huge difference in the way the TTK evolves as range grows

[indigo nexus]

the XP does still have a pretty decently sized region where it's better, but it has to compete with all the V9S's other advantages

I find the mag size is punishing enough in close quarters, let alone in the falloff zone

[near scroll]

tbh idk how to feel about xp's range. i've stated before that i believe xp should be a jack of all trades, and idk if having an optimal range suits that very well

i'd like to live in a world where xp wins against m11 long range but loses close range and vice versa with ARN yknow

which ig is what this fall off range tries to accomplish? the 22-35meters range

cause it's still the same 0.52 fall off mult as m11 is, so once you're past 35 meters range M11 is better than XP

[indigo nexus]

Not many people control its recoil well enough for that to be true

[fleet imp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1266737129182986342/1451070651401244899/santayouarejolly.gif

[near scroll]

i guess so but they buffed m11 recoil recently didnt they? i dont play the weapon much so idk

[plucky spade]

Wait
V9s has 0 recoil? Like not even a bit of upwards jump?

[outer crow]

yep, collosal difference

[outer crow]

almost 0 - yes

[near scroll]

its extremely minimal, it has more visual recoil than actual recoil in my limited experience with it

[plucky spade]

Alright then

[indigo nexus]

Honestly I never really noticed it, so it's basically nothing
but I shouldn't claim it doesn't exist

[near scroll]

yeah when compared to smth like lh1 it's night and day

[indigo nexus]

the aimpoint doesn't jump around so any correction you need to do will fall in with your regular tracking instincts

[stoic jackal]

@sturdy brook ur tm8 is so bad lol, switching to flame to win

[sturdy brook]

??????

[stoic jackal]

u cheesed the whole round

[sturdy brook]

brother my friend only plays flame

[stoic jackal]

cuz he has no aim lol

[slow linden]

Losing to flamethrower is an even bigger skill issue ngl,man lost to a melee weapon that needs to be reloaded

[sturdy brook]

okay and?xDDD you lost anyway

[stoic jackal]

both of u were absolute shit

[pearl yacht]

literally otp flamethrower

[stoic jackal]

u literally got carried cuz the devs think power weapons should be primaries

[pearl yacht]

you got that tilted bc of this? wow

[sturdy brook]

yes I know it's not like I care lad

[near scroll]

imagine going to harass ppl in discord lol, crazy

[pearl yacht]

cant imagine being around you irl jeez

[stoic jackal]

we literally just kill farmed them, their heavy teammate did all the work cuz flamethrower is op

[slow linden]

You clearly can't aim if you let a melee weapon that kills slowly before it gets to you

[sturdy brook]

this is literally not real? are you delusional or what

[pearl yacht]

yeah so cringe xD

[stoic jackal]

dude u and ur tm8 were so bad, no aim

[sturdy brook]

cool

[near scroll]

@stoic jackal wah wah cry me a river

[pearl yacht]

all the people on the server siding us is epic man HJAHJAJA

[slow linden]

I main goo flame,you are kin to me

[pearl yacht]

look at you rn man, crazy kid behaviour

[stoic jackal]

doesnt matter, my point stands, flamethrower is a no skill weapon

[sturdy brook]

cool

[pearl yacht]

cool

[near scroll]

to be fair you have to have quite high iq in order to comprehend the true depth of a flamethrower centric playstyle

[pearl yacht]

cry me a river man, crying bc of a flamethrower on KYOTO lol

[sturdy brook]

fax

[pearl yacht]

facts

[slow linden]

If that's true it sounds like the perfect weapon for you,go ahead,try it out

[hardy dust]

Flamer is noskill until you fight actually decent players

[stoic jackal]

bro actually thinks hes tuff by typing this shit 😂

[near scroll]

aren't you the one tryna act tuff by stalking and harassing someone on a discord server?

[sturdy brook]

you were the one that came looking for me on the server to flame my team? you're not one to speak lil bro

[pearl yacht]

man you are flaming on a discord server after losing a match, You're not in a position to say anything, mate.

[slow linden]

People who use "tuff" unironically in a sentence are lobotomites

[pearl yacht]

indeed

[near scroll]

flamer is not no skill bruh, it's less mechanically intensive than guns maybe (not if you're optimizing with quick melees and goo locks and shit) but it still requires good game knowledge 🤷‍♂️

[stoic jackal]

bro thinks hes tuff

[slow linden]

Flamethrower is only no skill against you because that's how much effort it takes to beat you,you are bottom of the barrel dogshit that can maybe peak low gold in world tour not even ranked if you play every day

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/chat-cat-fromage-goatplaybanjo-gif-14222499703250118481

[sturdy brook]

we were in kyoto btw, he's complaining about a flamethrower in kyoto and last map was moving platforms lol

[pearl yacht]

worst scenario for flamethrower and they still lost, sounds like skill issue

[brisk aurora]

im the flame

send me ur questions

AMA

[stoic jackal]

i dont need to ask u anything, ik why u play flame already

[brisk aurora]

because is easy and i dont think when im playing

[stoic jackal]

didnt ask

[brisk aurora]

i onlu search for the most crying people and kill them all

[brisk aurora]

i dont care

[stoic jackal]

didnt ask

[pearl yacht]

bro you lost against flamethrower on kyoto, got tilted and went to flam us on disc, that says a lot about you lol

[brisk aurora]

and i dont care again

[stoic jackal]

go back to using ur no skill weapon cuz u have no aim

[brisk aurora]

thats a fact already

but im still better than u so

[pearl yacht]

keep losing games, we'll wait for more news from you here

[stoic jackal]

low tier ragebait

[pearl yacht]

gen z 100%

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-writing-fire-his-writing-is-fire-is-this-fire-hold-up-gif-15400153686296022809

[stoic jackal]

i was on a 4 win streak before fighting ur team

[brisk aurora]

stop talking about yourself, this is about me

[stoic jackal]

thats coldddd, yooo wheres the phonk??

[near scroll]

dont care didnt ask

[sturdy brook]

czo you may have been facing people on your lvl idk

[pearl yacht]

sorry bud

[stoic jackal]

YOOO THATS COLDDD!!! chat gpt is cooking with this

[near scroll]

what is phonk sorry i'm not 12

[near scroll]

what does "that's cold" mean, sorry i'm not 13

[brisk aurora]

in your head, go heal beam bro

[brisk aurora]

chatgpt was in your last 4 wins bro

[stoic jackal]

bros unc 🥶

[pearl yacht]

btw who were you in the game?

[near scroll]

what does unc mean sorry i'm not 14

[brisk aurora]

u are the light i was persecuting all fight?

[near scroll]

also why the cold face emoji, is it cold where you live? don't you get centralized heating in your country?

[stoic jackal]

thats cold

[brisk aurora]

your keyboard is cold, w is for going forward

[near scroll]

what does thats cold mean you still didnt answer

[pearl yacht]

well, enough guys, we've laughed at him enough already, @near scroll you are an absolut legend btw

[stoic jackal]

YOOOO THATS SO SIGMAAAA

[brisk aurora]

thanks, try playing on pc next time

[stoic jackal]

ok bro whatever gg

[brisk aurora]

@stoic jackal we gonna play another game in ur honor bro

[near scroll]

he said gg! :o
we did it guys

[sturdy brook]

gj team

[stoic jackal]

if they enjoy playing like no skill mfs i cant do anything abt it

[deep turtle]

I want a sword skin that’s just this

[brisk aurora]

lit u cant do anything against it

[stoic jackal]

but i will make u fun for it because overall its a toxic playstyle

[brisk aurora]

with every hit a metalic pipe sound effect like crazy

[pearl yacht]

gg, try to tone it down in the next few games you play; you'll learn with age, don't worry, bud! 💀

[brisk aurora]

the toxic plastyle: press left click

[near scroll]

you could try being better at the game and learning matchups to beat their "noskill" comp, that's something you could do about it

[muted condor]

Damn this guy is an absolute dork

[brisk aurora]

IMPORTANT i play shield

[near scroll]

man's putting extra hours in when it comes to being a dork lol

[sturdy brook]

I mean tbh we had two long range weapons and then flamethrower so idk

they also had cl40 soooo

[stoic jackal]

idk man i only have issues with the controversial weapons

[pearl yacht]

yeah, and we played poke into push with the flamethrower

[brisk aurora]

tru

[stoic jackal]

flamethrower, cl40 and other goofy shit is just annoying to fight against

[pearl yacht]

I imagine they're all controversial for you, right?

[brisk aurora]

controversial weapon: flint and steel

[muted condor]

I love talking some unreasonable shit to to argue but tracking someone down on discord just to expose your own skill issue is next level corn ball activities

[stoic jackal]

devs have never played an fps game in their life to know that grenade launchers and flamethrowers shouldnt be primaries

[sturdy brook]

yes I agree but not to the point of coming into the server to flame people what the helly

[pearl yacht]

FRFR💀

[muted condor]

Bro actually losses to the most mid weapons in the game no fucking way 😭 🙏

[brisk aurora]

for this comment the light is gonna get another nerf bro

[near scroll]

you shouldn't be playing this game lol

[near scroll]

stalker activities, straight up

[stoic jackal]

ok

[muted condor]

My man needs to go back to valorant already fr

[near scroll]

by controversial weapons, you mean 93r, V9S, repeater, famas, bfr titan and SA1216 right?

[indigo nexus]

Why?

[muted condor]

Because he sucks at the game lol

[stoic jackal]

those are way more balanced

[pearl yacht]

bc he has skill issue

[indigo nexus]

93R may be now but the others?

[brisk aurora]

he only has 67 min on the game

[sturdy brook]

bro those weapons are balanced around being hard and cl40 flamethrower are balanced around being bad what's your point

[stoic jackal]

v9s is fine

[muted condor]

The only reason to not like those weapons is if you suck at positioning lol

[pearl yacht]

I can assure you that's the case

[brisk aurora]

40 > 38

[indigo nexus]

Finding the more counterable weapons annoying is an odd concept to me, they have explicit counterplay unlike most. More interesting to fight as a result imo

[stoic jackal]

yea its fine

[stoic jackal]

i dont need to explain it

[pearl yacht]

better that way, because you'll end up worse

[brisk aurora]

pls explain for the class

[indigo nexus]

If you’re fine with nobody taking your stance seriously, true

It shouldn’t be too difficult to enunciate any opinion you’re invested in

[stoic jackal]

you already know why they're annoying to fight against

[muted condor]

Just as I expected, 13yo goof ball

[deep portal]

how can u get so tilted over this game

[muted condor]

Type of guy to say riot shield needs a nerf

[stoic jackal]

I just like how everyone here pretends like they've never complained about playing against flame or cl40

everyone likes the game for its gunplay and destruction mechanics, but nobody likes it for its cancerous weapons

the game is at its peak when everyone is using guns and thats it, cl40 and flamethrower just ruin the flow completely

unfortunately its too late for the devs to do anything about it because they've already committed to these weapons being in the game with the addition of skins etc, but don't lie, they're not fun to fight against

[slow linden]

Gang shit

[near scroll]

they are actually less balanced (especially in high skill lobbies (funny isn't it) ) and much more controversial for the health of the game rn

[stoic jackal]

No, I play ranked and its way more fun than casual

because not that many people run flame and cl40 in ranked

[muted condor]

Yeah, back when I had three hours of play time 😂

I must say this guy has managed to unit this server more than ever before. Iv never seen this many people agree here on something

[stoic jackal]

you'll still find that weirdo that does but overall another big reason to play ranked is that people won't run cancer loadouts

[near scroll]

maybe because they're bad weapons and people run the best loadouts available in ranked?

[slow linden]

Some dogshit fart noises with reverb and random men yelling in Portuguese that people with undeveloped brains like to call music

[near scroll]

no way hahahahahahaha

[muted condor]

Wow it’s almost like those weapons are mid or something lmao

[stoic jackal]

people lie

[near scroll]

especially in #💣┇weapons-gadgets

[stoic jackal]

i never said they were op

I just said that they were annoying to fight against, flame just allows anyone to deal a reasonable amount of dps with barely any effort

cl40 is just a visual clutter king

the heavy grenade launcher is the only one that requires skill

[stoic jackal]

ur just genuinely ass at the game

try to use an actual gun and win a game, u cant do it

[pearl yacht]

why is this kid still typing man wtf

[muted condor]

Self reporting even more lol

[stoic jackal]

??? but thats true

[pearl yacht]

we are half game already get a life bro, dont you have school or smthing?

[muted condor]

They more he types the more we get to clown on him

[stoic jackal]

bros unemployed

[near scroll]

winning with off meta weapons is significantly harder than with guns, especially considering how many counterplay options there are for them

[pearl yacht]

says the one looking for ppl on disc to flam, lmao

[brisk aurora]

me for example

[stoic jackal]

u run it cuz u have no aim

[pearl yacht]

fr

[indigo nexus]

Aim isn’t the only skill in this game, I don’t think it’s fair to say “with barely any effort”. If a person has good aim then a flamethrower is probably notably more effort to use to the same end than a different gun.

[brisk aurora]

tru, but im still winning

[pearl yacht]

frfr 💀

[stoic jackal]

idk bro when u were alone all by yourself i completely shat on you, so idk

[indigo nexus]

It’s like calling people who don’t use melee weapons low skill because they have no positioning skills

[stoic jackal]

ur so bad

[stoic jackal]

thats a whole different story

[indigo nexus]

Same song, different tune. I don’t think it makes sense to agree with one stance but not the other

[pearl yacht]

not rly wtf

[stoic jackal]

melee weapons also fall in the cancer category

[slow linden]

If he doesn't like flamethrower turret has to be this fart can's antichrist I swear

[stoic jackal]

when they are spammed

[slow linden]

Turret spam is fucking funny and easy to counter

[brisk aurora]

but still better than u

[stoic jackal]

i killed u a lot of times so no

[slow linden]

He won,that's all that matters

[stoic jackal]

yea ok whatever, but in the end the reason why this game wont be mainstream is because this bs exists, nobody wants to play a game where people have flamethrowers, grenade launchers with infinite ammo at their hands, and no these weapons dont make the game unique, the game is already unique enough for its destruction physics

[indigo nexus]

You could get a vague comparison of your skill levels if you both only solo queued ranked and compared the highest ranks you had been able to obtain, nothing else is meaningful unless you spent a lot of time playing together

[slow linden]

Go play cod lil bro the finals is not for you

[stoic jackal]

saw it coming

trust me if they remove flames and grenade launchers the game wouldnt be anything like cod

[indigo nexus]

Variety within loadouts is fun. I would find the game a lot drier if we removed grenade launchers, flamethrower, melees and whatever else you may find annoying.

I also note that you still haven’t given a clear reason as to why you don’t like them.

[muted condor]

That’s actually exactly why people play it goober

[slow linden]

Then deep down you know you deserve only shit

[stoic jackal]

you just refuse to accept the fact that this game has cancer weapons because you know people would clown on you for it

but at least im honest

[muted condor]

It really sounds like you just want to play cod bro

[stoic jackal]

???

[muted condor]

Lil bro can’t stop self reporting

[indigo nexus]

As far as I am aware nobody here is lying, but you’re the only one who has refused to answer queries about your stance.

[stoic jackal]

Now we're just lying

who the fuck plays this game for flamethrower and grenade launchers except those who have shit aim?

[slow linden]

Those weapons are not cancer,they're fun,they're whimsical,not everyone wants to use nothing but ars and smgs all the time you boring shitter

[muted condor]

Honestly skill issue on your part buddy

[stoic jackal]

ive already expressed my hatred for cancerous weapons like cl40 and flamethrower, u literally cant read

[indigo nexus]

quite a pointless rhetorical question. This doesn’t affect the argument further than as a false appeal to incredulity.

[stoic jackal]

and now you're just dodging the whole question, alright dude,

[slow linden]

Cl40 is ass get better

[indigo nexus]

And remember when I asked you why and you refused?

[stoic jackal]

I already told you

[stoic jackal]

never said it was good

[indigo nexus]

So you can reference this?

[stoic jackal]

go find it yourself, since ur acting so smart

[indigo nexus]

You have said nothing that I recognise as a meaningful response to that.

[muted condor]

Lmao bro is back peddling now

[brisk aurora]

i killed u i think, i dont remember who are u

[stoic jackal]

I said it was annoying, not op

[indigo nexus]

This is everything you had said to me up until that point

[muted condor]

God this kid is ether dumb af or just 12

“ I don’t need to explain it”

[near scroll]

@stoic jackal what other games did you play before the finals

[brisk aurora]

wow that a free report for all the server bro, dont try to speedrun a exit

[stoic jackal]

because people have already talked about it, if you played the game enough you've already heard the popular opinion

[muted condor]

Straight clown shit

[pearl yacht]

why the actual fuck do you still here arguing with ppl, you've already shown you don't have a clue about anything, go play with your friends in the park or something jeez

[slow linden]

Grenade launchers require more aim ironically,one cannot directly interact with players and requires a degree in theoretical physics,and the other needs to direct hit to do more than tickling,wh

[pearl yacht]

cringe ahh gen z turbocrying child man

[muted condor]

The popular opinion is they are fun so yeah you’re right I have heard

[stoic jackal]

ok nah this is ragebait, im out

[brisk aurora]

he is just so rizz sigma skibidi male, u dont get it

[pearl yacht]

finally? wow, why the fuck took you so long

[slow linden]

Use them and find out

[muted condor]

Now he’s running away after tracking people down and yelling at them for beating him 😂

[brisk aurora]

finally he uninstall the game we are free

[indigo nexus]

Getting maximum effectiveness from the CL-40 at any range is harder than any hitscan weapon. Getting a lower degree of effectiveness with it is easier but only at close range, as eventually the velocity and drop make it much more difficult.

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-at-you-gif-15677477317679001616

[sturdy brook]

if anything it'd make more casuals want to play the game xdd

[slow linden]

We're free of the boring dogshit clown

[stiff wind]

dhh

[pearl yacht]

frfr

[brisk aurora]

bro install cod and leave us alone

[pearl yacht]

imagine going to disc to flam ppl from your last game, cringe

[stiff wind]

vfxhxd

[muted condor]

Bro stalked someone who beat him, complained that they only won because of using flamethrower, insisted flamethrower isn’t actually a good weapon… so he admitted to getting beat by a mid weapon lmao

[near scroll]

@stoic jackal answer me coward

[stoic jackal]

you're the one asking to argue now

[indigo nexus]

It’s like that scene from Disney’s Frozen!

[slow linden]

That dude? Impossible,he has the spiritual composition of wonderbread

[muted condor]

@stoic jackal Actually you’re the one who came here pinging people and insulting them first

[brisk aurora]

all because im better in all the things he is gonna try in his life

[near scroll]

i'm asking a question to receive an answer, not asking to argue

[plucky spade]

Who said grenade launcher is op?

[plucky spade]

Ah hell naw the dooty kids are here

[compact tundra]

The fuck did I miss, I scroll up and see an hours long bullying session, the fuck happened

[indigo nexus]

on an unrelated note I am trying to make my weapon graph generator actually good now

[compact tundra]

That's fucking cool

[indigo nexus]

it is... not easy, I understand exactly why I did it the expensive way the first time

[near scroll]

he deserved it, bro stalked and harassed someone he lost to lol

[compact tundra]

Ah, a deserved bullying I see

[indigo nexus]

I am right now trying to solve this problem:

Given a number of headshots and a number of bodyshots that may have occured in any order, compute how likely it is that replacing an arbitrary but optimal number of the ending shots with a quick melee reduces the TTK without tipping the whole thing into an exponential time complexity again

I think I have a solution but I don't know if it will violate the statistical integrity of the thing

[violet solar]

If your fighting a med or hev yes cause you have to land most of not all of your mag if your fighting a light not really cause you can just put two shots anywhere near them and they fall over

[weak kernel]

light can easily position themselves to avoid it or actually dodge shots tho, the week or so that the CL-40 was 'overpowered' was super nice for light because so few people were running their actual counter in hitscan lol

[slow linden]

Remove damage stages from explosions honestly,Explosives are way too underpowered rn and that would honestly fix them

[violet solar]

I play dagger so to get the cl40 player I kinda need to be close lol

[placid slate]

Do you not remember the lobotomites at the start of season 7? Now imagine them with an actually good cl40

[slow linden]

If I hit you with the boom at all just take full damage,the outer radius does like two damage just Remove the outer stages at that point and make all Explosives tiny as fuck

[outer crow]

mostly with cl 40 u shoot to the floor, so just spam jump to kite it

[placid slate]

How small? Like percentage wise

[violet solar]

If you jump and I shoot at your feet I can still 2 shot you if your light

[slow linden]

Oh I'm just saying the outer damage stages are fucking pointless and I would rather not have them than have them,what I really want is the full radius to do full damage

[slow linden]

I never had a problem with cl40 except when people roof camp with it,but that goes for literally anything

[indigo nexus]

then you don't reward more precise shots, I don't really see the point

[slow linden]

The outer damage stages are pointless and dishonest,they just make grenade launchers feel like inconsistent pieces of shit,also grenade launchers aren't supposed to be precise at all

[outer crow]

just use dash

[weak kernel]

can see why that would be an issue with dagger in particular, but other close quarters weapons where you don't need to hit the back it was pretty alright- you have a lot of free reign against the CL-40 to position yourself for a good opportunity when you'd just get quickly poked to death against a weapon like the lever action or something

[half hearth]

k

[violet solar]

Ok you use dash I’ll use any ranged weapon you try and dodge my shots, people act dash counters good aim it doesn’t aim counters dash learned that playing with some rubies the other day

[slow linden]

The mgl is dogshit for more reasons than just damage stages but the full boom doing full damage on a weapon that is literally made not to be precise is fine,cl40s effective damage radius is so small that it might as well just be damage nerfed ks23 on medium with bullet drop and shit velocity

[compact tundra]

So can the model and the Cerb, why is the cl40 problematic when these hit scan weapons can do the same thing

[slow linden]

Rpg? That can honestly stay as it is,rpg is fine rn

Also c4 is great

[violet solar]

The model is a joke cerb is ok just cl40 is much easier to use, mainly just tired of people instantly swapping to it after I back stab them once

[slow linden]

But explosive mine and frag grenade? Honestly pitiful effective damage radius

Not worth using unless for a nuke build

[indigo nexus]

frag nade got a radius buff just recently, I definitely wouldn't call that pitiful

[slow linden]

It's okay ish,but what is even the point of the like 2 damage dealing stage on it

Inconsistency built into something that you're not exactly supposed to be pinpoint with is just kinda dumb

[outer crow]

just use dash to counter cl 40, i was not talking about other guns

[slow linden]

The unnecessary Pyro mine nerf did nothing but just enhance how irrelevant explosive mine is

[outer crow]

there is no guarantee to deal full damage with cl 40 anyway

[violet solar]

Cl40 included if your anywhere near med to close range and you dash most people can just flick over and shoot your feet still

[indigo nexus]

makes it better at area denial

[compact tundra]

But the cl40 is objectively worse then the model and maybe even the cerb, hell outta of the 3 of these the model is the best and it's hit scan where the cl40 is a harder to hit projectile that has barely any splash damage

[slow linden]

True,I've hit right next to their feet and done 23 damage but do you know why that is? It's because desync and higher ping than like 20 make explosives just horribly inconsistent because of the damage stages

[indigo nexus]

that's nothing to do with the damage stages

[slow linden]

No one's being denied the area by 2 damage

[indigo nexus]

perhaps you're taking the opposite stance than I thought - you think they shoud do full damage everywhere?

[outer crow]

i play tf2 demoman style sometimes, and opponents except "heavy" take less damage mostly (especially gnome size lights)

[violet solar]

Worse than the cerb yes can agree worse than model I disagree I love the model but time between shots not being able to cancel reload until spa fix parts of the animation and even tho it got buffed reloading shot you already have in your gun taking up time every reload and no reload animation checkpoints make it so annoyingly hard to use

[slow linden]

That is literally caused by damage stages,without them desync wouldn't make it hit for its lowest possible damage half the time when you hit their left pinkie toe

[indigo nexus]

depends on exactly the change that you are suggesting. If the radius was nerfed but it now deals 100% damage everywhere in that radius, now instead of 2 damage you are doing 0 damage.
But no matter how you spin it it's unrelated to that. Latency is always going to lead to enemies being in a slightly different place to where you think they are when an explosive detonates

[weak kernel]

i can get being annoyed by the CL is you're playing dagger or maybe sword but like every other light weapon it's like "oh they're using the CL-40? awesome I have so much more space to work with"

[slow linden]

Its a grenade launcher,it's not supposed to be a slug shotgun,and even if it were it isn't very good

[violet solar]

Range is the ultimate counter

And height

[weak kernel]

even the double barrel works great against the CL, it's just sword being wack right now and dagger needing a backstab

[slow linden]

I would rather just not hit them than direct impact them repeatedly for 21 damage with a weapon that is supposed to do like 80

[indigo nexus]

that's fine

[outer crow]

to deal full damage u need to direct hit target with cl 40 which is mostly possible on heavy

[indigo nexus]

but I don't agree, because a 1cm difference in position being the difference between full damage and 0 damage seems unintuitive to me

[slow linden]

They kinda just turned both sword and Sledge into boring spam weapons tbh

I hate the nerfs to melee

[slow linden]

It doesn't need to be intuitive,it's a grenade launcher,grenades deny or remove an area

[outer crow]

yea, kinda cringe that damage doesnt slowly decrease the further from explosion center of cl 40 grenade

[limber kite]

Give melee combos back + maybe new attack modes and then just make it unviable to do w+M1 with pure parameters

[indigo nexus]

making interactions as intuitive as possible is one of the most important parts of game design

[compact tundra]

It's really not that hard to use outside if stacked heavies to me. You've got 7 shots to work with and get punished for missing, it's a tight spread short-medium ranged shotgun that deals good damage, it's honestly in a decent spot in my opinion, while the cl-40 literally only works against lights and some other medium loadouts and the Cerb is the probably the worst gun on medium

[slow linden]

No it does,well less slowly and more drastically it does full damage for like one or two meters(at least it's supposed to) and the massive outer radius just hits for like 12,I'd rather they half the size of the outer radius and make the whole explosion do full damage,or remove the outer radius and make the weapon honest to how dogshit it actually is

This applies to MGL as well

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-urge-resist-cat-gif-25536160

[slow linden]

You think goo gun is too strong you're the one with a skill issue

[outer crow]

🤔

[violet solar]

I’d argue all of the little issues on model on top of shotguns in general having problems of dealing 12 dmg or 80 dmg in the exact same distance and aim due to janky shot reg makes them all pretty bad but for all the things I listed above I’d say model is the worst shotgun

[sudden pewter]

Where is this coming from? I don’t like the stun but that’s my only complaint?

[slow linden]

You whine constantly about it when goo gun comes up in your presence,you ruthlessly slander the sacred goo,any negative sentiment towards anything can lead to a nerf,deserving or not,just look at how reddit neutered dagger

[unkempt moss]

Someone say Goo?

[slow linden]

Of course brother

[unkempt moss]

Someone out here spreading the good news.

[violet solar]

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-massacre-sad-gif-16810633

[sudden pewter]

You might be confusing Goo Gun with Goo Grenade?

[slow linden]

Both undeserving

Barricade is just a better goo grenades anyway pardon my heresy

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

Nah that’s on par with what’s expected from you

[limber kite]

Quick, Goo gun him down before bro escapes from this channel!

[slow linden]

I spend more time burning goo than using it for cover,I hate that they limited it to 1 because i used it to trap people in burning hallways,now it's much harder to

[unkempt moss]

No shot you think barricade is better than Grenade.

[limber kite]

Barricade is situational

[slow linden]

For cover? Absolutely,sure it's not as wide but I'm pretty sure it's slightly taller,covers heavy better

[slow linden]

The situation is 90% of situations you can get use out of barricade

[unkempt moss]

I use GooGun for my barricade needs mainly. Two globs is usually enough for most engagements

[outer crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[slow linden]

I packapunch my barricades with goo and Pyro mines sometimes

[limber kite]

Yeah, "With Your pants down" as to call it. You can deploy mid-combat, but what's the sense of losing these 50% of HP for it?

[slow linden]

It deploys really fast what you mean 50% that shit is borderline fortnite build speed

[limber kite]

UNLESS you're against dumb enough people that bump into it

[slow linden]

Gives you time to reload or,toss a mine and flank

[limber kite]

I know, I use it myself alongside goo gun to lock down sites on PB

[violet solar]

Candy cane dagger skin, thoughts?

[slow linden]

Sabotaging your cover so the enemy cannot as readily use it is a pretty good practice,might be a war crime though,uncertain

[limber kite]

Imagine Barricade + Jump pad to make it projectle resistant

Uno reverse card for enemy RPG users

[slow linden]

I've done it to a teammates barricade before,it's pretty funny

I've also helped put nukes on ceilings directly above jump pads,those are funny traps

[sudden pewter]

What’s stopping someone from shooting the AOE projectile to the side of the barricade?

[limber kite]

Goo from goo gun

[unkempt moss]

Let a boy dream, greener.

[slow linden]

Resistant does not mean immune

[sudden pewter]

IMMORTAL BARRICADE METHOD??? (12/18/25 Unpatched)

[limber kite]

99% of people bump into it anyway if you deploy it on-spot

"Doors? Where doors?" - Light mains after the doors have been barricaded

[sudden pewter]

Unless I’m intentionally blocking a doorway I’ve never experienced players bumping my barricades

[unkempt moss]

Thank you

[slow linden]

Humans may be Resistant to chocolate but If you eat exactly a pound of pure chocolate you'll die of theobromine poisoning

[unkempt moss]

Sounds like a challenge

[slow linden]

It's a law

[unkempt moss]

Limits are meant to be broken

[deep turtle]

Like, a dense metallic thud, a thwack with a lil ring to it. ping, bonk, thonk

[fleet horizon]

up the akm damage

[stoic jackal]

thats true, no reason to use it over fcar

[fleet horizon]

right

[eager wasp]

more ammo

[fleet horizon]

ya and a little more damage

like 1 inch more damage

[limber kite]

What about famas then?

[fleet horizon]

we need hold to shoot for famas

my finger be hurting

[serene glade]

they should make it full auto and all the guns just feel even more similar tbh. we dont need any variety

[fleet horizon]

fax

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-gif-8037700062970091444

[shell sonnet]

just wasted by 6 hour cooldown for a joke because i thought its weapons.gadgets 🥲

[sudden pewter]

If it makes you feel any better I used mine being mean to a stinky femboy

[shell sonnet]

no

[placid slate]

I told a mf they had an entire year to complain about the v9s doing 40 damage

[shell sonnet]

circumstances

[placid slate]

*cicumcisions

[shell sonnet]

*circus

geez
9 loss streak in qc -> fist try defender win on point break
as if i needed a clearer sign

[sudden pewter]

Did they fix the spawn zone exploit in point break yet?

I’m hesitant to play it anymore knowing there’s the possibility of losing because of a design oversight

[shell sonnet]

only played 1 match, not planning to do any more today, patch notes said it was i think?

said they now act like cashouts being thrown out the map

[serene glade]

are/were they banning people for using the exploit. sure its scummy to do it, but seems insane to ban people because they didnt test their product or have any urgency to fix it

i just swear i heard someone say they were banning people

[shell sonnet]

its 1 thing to accidentally pull it out of the map, going "huh, that aint right" and then just playing normally

going "oh sh*t, they cant win anymore, who cares if they have fun, i can cheese free wins" and doing that all all day is something else

just dont activate the puppy shredder, and youre alright

and yes, they have been, got a message someone was banned the very day after

[serene glade]

yeah its insanely degenerate, but like people are gonna shred puppies if they gain something from it

[shell sonnet]

then they deserve whats coming to them

[compact tundra]

Idk normally I'd agree with "ban the dickheads" but as someone who has had to use embarks customer service I really don't trust them to handle bans on something like that since it's nearly impossible to actually get your issues resolved with embark

So if someone gets banned mistakenly they're stuck

[shell sonnet]

thats is another problem though
(imo)

but yeah, i suppose issuing more bans increases false positives, which is a problem

[compact tundra]

Yea but it relates to the one at hand, imagine accidently winching it out and now you're banned with no way to contact the people that banned you or to appeal

Cause like I've been banned from spending money in game since release and I've tried to resolve this 4 times and nothing has worked. The one time I got a person they didn't even read the full log and just assumed the issue was resolved and closed the ticket before I could tell them it wasn't

And that's me trying to hand them money, so I have 0 faith they handle ban appeals any better

[shell sonnet]

sorry for that, i hope that gets resolved some day and that you didnt miss out on something you wanted 🫂

[compact tundra]

It's good I have a work around just if a company can't even fix a problem that stops me from handing them money then I have no faith in them handling any thing else customer service wise

[shell sonnet]

i mean, maybe it could be better?
a bad actor can get unbanned more easily, since they at worst case just get banned again
fraud would actually loose them money

ive heard some cheaters get unbanned quite a bit, so that seems to speak for it

[serene glade]

just weird to me because it seems like the easiest thing to think of to break that game mode. and then instead of just trying to fix it as quick as possible. if it was like someone doing complicated steps to break a server then i understand bans and then also trying to fix the issues as fast as possible. but legit someone with only like 5 hours could go "what if i winch clawed this into my spawn".

[unkempt moss]

Based

[sudden pewter]

Regert.

[shell sonnet]

bro got snuked off the face of the planet

[shell sonnet]

they did make the discord announcement, though obviously not everyone is on discord

but it should be pretty clear that something like this kind of breaks the mode and ruins the fun for everyone else

[sudden pewter]

Shouldn’t have been a thing since launch

“Oh we added a new boundary beyond OOB for maps? We should ensure the objective is safe from it”

[compact tundra]

I guess but I could absolutely see some drunk dude laughing his ass off cause he figured out he can winch the cashbox outta bounds, and I don't think that constitutes a ban

[sudden pewter]

Did nobody in the playtests consider it?

[unkempt moss]

Correct. Everyone and their friend that only play arc raiders saw this coming except for Embark.

[sudden pewter]

If done repeatedly it’s a bannable offense

[compact tundra]

I guess but as a common drunkard that likes doing dumb shit I could see a group of drunk dickheads just griefing games cause it's funny and I don't lien the idea of that being a serious ban, maybe a few days to a week but they never stated if these were permanent bans or not

[unkempt moss]

This is also the team that's had thermal vision elude their game development skills for several months now

[sudden pewter]

There’s other silly things that can be done for fun without ruining the core experience of a new gamemode

[compact tundra]

Fair

[sudden pewter]

Oh you wanna push the objective? Well you can’t reach it without the map itself killing you. Literally unplayable, you cannot win.

Not a skill issue, not bad randoms, you cannot touch the OBJ.

[unkempt moss]

Is there no timer on the mode as well?

[sudden pewter]

Nope! Based on lives for attacking team

[unkempt moss]

So youre just held hostage. That's incredible

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, day 1 there was a +30 minute match because players refused to die

Gamemode is super cool conceptually, love the 8v8 format, but an obvious development oversight ruined it for the first week

[shell sonnet]

same for me
almost had it back

but 0 cover due to 15 minutes of cns

we had 1 shot to get close, but 2 lights camped it

ended up loosing

[unkempt moss]

Embark back at it again with another mode that doesn't work without major tweaks

[serene glade]

technically both sides can hold the game hostage then right. elite

[compact tundra]

Idk I kinda like that there's no timer, you can run medic medium and try to hard clutch a match if your loosing on attacker and it's fun

Also I think if everyone wipes it forces someone to respawn so you can't refuse to respawn and hold the game hostage

[sudden pewter]

It’s cool that we’re not rushed and can be patient and calculate avenues of attack. But the oversight makes the lack of timer a poor choice

Now that it’s fixed (hopefully) it shouldn’t be an issue

On the note of timers, get rid of the internal token timer. You finish a match, you get a token. Period

Nobody asks to be placed into in-progress matches regardless of gamemode, why punish them for it?

[unkempt moss]

Hey guys, we are still trying to make our main mode work well. We pulled terminal attack. Surely we nail it with this one

Point break probably should have been an LTM to test

[compact tundra]

R.I.P. terminal attack

[sudden pewter]

I hated TA with a passion, clearly the playerbase at large did too given players didn’t play it enough even in private servers

[unkempt moss]

It goes completely against the core of the game.

[shell sonnet]

i mean, imo they kinda did
loads of fun, just a bit unbalanced rn

(though im not sure if fundamental changes may have ended up with it better...)

[sudden pewter]

I dislike content being removed though, that sucks and I blame consoles

[compact tundra]

I played it and it never took more than like 1-2 minutes to find a match

[compact tundra]

The fuck did we do?!?

[sudden pewter]

Exist

[unkempt moss]

I mean when you're having to remove gadgets specifically for a mode then its pretty rough

[shell sonnet]

exposed herself as console player [engimo blowback protocol initiated]

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[shell sonnet]

🫵 smelly

[muted condor]

Catter is a racist

[sudden pewter]

Second class citizens of gaming

[compact tundra]

Bruh why tho

[shell sonnet]

funy

[sudden pewter]

No storage space havin aa

[muted condor]

Blame western game devs for that one

[shell sonnet]

(ofc all in good fun, please dont take it personally )

[sudden pewter]

Consoles will conform to my arbitrary standards or be destroyed

[muted condor]

Could be worse, AH could have made The Finals at 200mb for pc

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071067310766436372/1327328945678450779/caption.gif

[muted condor]

Fuck you

https://tenor.com/view/pet-snail-snail-with-strawberry-today-i-will-wear-my-white-button-dowm-snail-falling-over-falling-over-gif-15072361159213646807

[unkempt moss]

This is a pretty good idea who ever said that

[serene glade]

garfield and odie pet, lasagna tray on the end of spear. the swedes fear this

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/snail-gif-18032872

[unkempt moss]

Imagine the poster already. Orf and Garf clashing over a pan of lasagna. It would look like a Marvel vs Capcom cover. Odie staring down Pip.

[sudden pewter]

Pip should go in a jar

[shell sonnet]

reminds me

i want a flatworm friend pet
(basically a pretty blue yellow sea slug)

[sudden pewter]

I will not offer context

[serene glade]

[sudden pewter]

I’m not a fan of pets as a whole, I like that King Tama makes noises when you taunt, but very few of them fit thematically with cosmetics and stick out

That whale somewhat fits with the CNS aesthetic but there isn’t enough cosmetics to warrant my using it

I’d much rather have the logo of a Sponsor on my shoulder where the pet would be

Shit that would be kinda fire actually

Writing that down for #1075060148004991067 later

[muted condor]

One of the only good pets fr

[limber kite]

What about sheldon?

[sudden pewter]

Sheldon isn’t a pet he is a friend

[compact tundra]

I like the 2 crows, the bat, and dale the whale, all of those fit some of my cosmetics

[muted condor]

@compact tundra I know your option on Sheldon >:)

[compact tundra]

Sheldon's a menace that haunts me day to day

[limber kite]

Sheldon the hecker the best companion

[compact tundra]

No, keep that monstrosity away from me

[muted condor]

I am going to post the hell spawn

[compact tundra]

No please, I'm bored at work

[limber kite]

Stay bored gang, maybe that will make Embark see the problems we have

[muted condor]

Buy me the battle pass or Sheldon gets posted

[sudden pewter]

Sheldon loaded and ready to fire

[shell sonnet]

ok fair, but also, cant really put a logo in pets

maybe a little drone with a display that then shows the sponsor

[sudden pewter]

||the context is the Sheldon gif actually crashes Unjusts client||

[sudden pewter]

Easy fix; just relabel pets to shoulder shit

[limber kite]

fr fr? An effective Heck of Sheldon Hecking?

[sudden pewter]

And GIVE ME BACK THE OPTION TO DISABLE THE CHAT FILTER I miss seeing gamer words

[compact tundra]

They took it away?!?

[sudden pewter]

Can’t even tell my Medium “Good shit” because Embarks afraid they’ll get offended

[muted condor]

Give us prox chat in the finals

[sudden pewter]

Removed in S6 iirc, no patchnotes

[compact tundra]

The fuck?

[sudden pewter]

And now we have chat moderation yaaaaay!!!!

Now the CCP can listen to us and deduct social credit!

[compact tundra]

Why?!?! If I'm ok with gamer words then let me see them dammit

[sudden pewter]

Oh you don’t wanna enable chat moderation? Fuck you! You don’t get to talk then

[limber kite]

1984

[compact tundra]

Yea I found out after like a month that's why I was comm banned

[sudden pewter]

Giving players the tools required to moderate their own communication with other players is always preferable to having a designated committee or AI do it for us

At least that’s the case when the players interests are at the heart of the discussion, clearly that isn’t the case

Mind Embark is published by Nexon, owned by Tencent (so we already know where the interests are)

[muted condor]

I’m 100% certain they added the moderation because China got a hand in the game

[sudden pewter]

I’m inclined to agree

If I say something that doesn’t match someone’s sensibilities, in any other game they could mute me and never hear me again. Now, if I say something The Chinals doesn’t like or wants suppressed I cannot speak in the game to anyone forever. I’ve lost that right.

[muted condor]

Chat moderation, more aggressive monetization, and China themed season all happening in two months? Yeah fucking right

[sudden pewter]

And the GLAZING of China in the S9 trailer

Where’s the toxic smog map modifier Oscar? It’s China after all

Or did they not allow that because it doesn’t set a good precedent?

[muted condor]

I was funny

No safety nets under the factory ether 😔 emersion ruined

[sudden pewter]

I brought that up day 1 lol

[limber kite]

Keep spitting fax brothas

[muted condor]

CCP has been doing over time on the gaming industry and Reddit after that bridge collapse

[sudden pewter]

Great Leap Forward

Inb4 the paid discord plant says I’m racist for voicing complaints about the user experience being objectively worse

Admittedly the communication tools have been incredibly primitive since launch, and the club system is tacked on rather than a feature. Not that it’s an excuse to remove player agency in removing the option to disable the filter

[serene glade]

the discord plant is racist

[sudden pewter]

Embark is based in Sweden and it’s not very Swedish to censor players like this, and since Embark obviously cannot comment (contractually obligated not to or otherwise) we can only make assumptions

I wonder what body with its fingers in The Finals pot is notorious for censorship

[muted condor]

Remember it’s not racist to hate on the CCP it’s actually the morally correct thing to do 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥

[limber kite]

Why they even went for contract with Nexon in the first place?

[sudden pewter]

If you haven’t noticed, The Finals isn’t a golden goose. Embark needed to seek a publisher to get the game out the door

Arc Raiders performed well above expectations but I doubt it’ll be enough of a powerhouse to allow Embark to self publish and break their chains

[limber kite]

Just because some investors wouldn't get it from start I guess?

[muted condor]

Same reason HA got in bed with Sony

[sudden pewter]

“Investors” are notoriously stupid when it comes to guessing what will and will not be popular in terms of games

[limber kite]

Bloody world of money... We could just kickstart some The Finals funds but we didn't

[sudden pewter]

Digital Extremes (creators of Warframe) were laughed out of every office they went to

[muted condor]

Can’t get a game off the ground quickly without help these days

[limber kite]

Rich boomers

[sudden pewter]

Thankfully Warframe had the founders program to keep them afloat, and now it’s a worldwide sensation

The Finals lack of marketing is likely due to budget constraints, Nexon is only willing to give so much

Because the game is flash, it’s got issues certainly but it’s so much better than yearly releases

Probably why they put so much effort into TGM. For new eyes and exposure, even if they left the game itself to flounder for two months

[limber kite]

So much potential man, and I'm not willing to believe it can all collapse in a year or two

[sudden pewter]

I’m a TF2 Migrant and I can tell you factually shit can get bad fast

[limber kite]

Man, I was a medic main, 800h total... You was in all these servers I was in on discord i think...

[sudden pewter]

Oscar is the face of Embark to the community because he’s personable and funny. The suits upstairs would mug you without a second thought

Oscar has a list of things he can never discuss ever

Because if he did it would ruin the illusion (no shade to Oscar, love you)

[limber kite]

Its just sad that so many Good FPS games like CoD or TF2 fall into obscurity... So many discord servers closed

[sudden pewter]

Discord is recent, I don’t have the attachment to it much of the youth does

[limber kite]

So many communities gone, you know

[sudden pewter]

That love for Discord is what I felt for OG Skype

2GB attachments. Back when the internet wasn’t corporate

[limber kite]

Wish I could live through these golden days man, But I'm just a Zoomer... At least we both played TF2, isn't it?

[sudden pewter]

Pre-Jungle Inferno TF2 was a completely different beast

And before MyM 😔

[limber kite]

@sudden pewter Can I send you friend request here on discord? Maybe we could discuss more ye olde stuff in the future

[analog pewter]

i dont have much nostalgia for old TF2 except for the righteous bison being good enough to use. God I loved going around with the rocket jumper and bison and just being silly

weapon is so unusably dogshit now that it's impossible to have fun with

[sudden pewter]

Phlog not giving a full heal & uber

GRU not having a stupid fucking -30 health on equip & healthdrain penalty

[muted condor]

How dare you try and steal my pookie

[sudden pewter]

Also Buffalo Steak being untouched is CRIMINAL

30% damage vulnerability that still isn’t listed Jesus why

Also whatever the fuck Valve did to these things needs to go. It’s a worse GRU, and due to the healthdrain being lesser it takes x2 longer to get Max HP back it’s ridiculous

I could go on for hours I need to cut myself off

[compact tundra]

See my only experience with TF2 is my autism. I've never owned a PC and have therefore never played the game but I weirdly enough love watching balancing and tutorial videos about TF2, it's really fun for some reason

[sudden pewter]

I installed Steam for TF2 in 2011

[wind folio]

unc

[analog pewter]

bro i just got kicked from a match for "invalid game file modification" i have never once touched these files 😭

[sudden pewter]

Been seeing that a lot

I’ve also been marked as a console player in my GUI. Even though I’m playing through Steam!

[shell sonnet]

idk who i told my recent occasion, was it you?

[unkempt moss]

Everyone in wepsNgadg

[analog pewter]

man the v9s really makes using any other light weapon rn feel pointless

[sudden pewter]

No

[boreal garden]

Feel you, when I play light I basically only use m11 and I can barely win 1v1s rn vs v9s

[shell sonnet]

apparently boyo is censored?
so ofc all my teammate sees is *** and immediately jumps to the worst conclusion

ive never seen this before
is it like a cross language problem like how el is banned?

[sudden pewter]

Likely a large blacklist provided by Nexon

There’s no accounting for various languages, all the more reason to put that power in THE HANDS OF THE PLAYERS

[analog pewter]

gotta say

model buff
amazing
its incredible how something so seemingly minor does SO much
weapon feels excellent to use now, I still think it could use some very fringe buffs but if they left it as-is I wouldn't be complaining too much

[rough beacon]

Yo y did my favorite v90 get nerfed 😭😭😭

The goat gun

V9S mb

[thorny dock]

Is there a difference after the update? It’s literally just -2damage

[rough beacon]

Still I don’t see why

Also I think heavy take way more hit now

[compact tundra]

It's cause it's usage at higher levels increased significantly and from my understanding it's stepping on the toes of the more traditional long ranged light weapons like the XP and ARN

[thorny dock]

It’s dominating in ranked for sure

[analog pewter]

deal 1000 damage with grenades
doesnt count pyro or gas grenades

[rough beacon]

Yea but different nerfs could be viable as well

Like a slight drop off range

[wraith thunder]

What grenades count?

[analog pewter]

actually frags dont seem to either
challenge is bugged?

[wraith thunder]

It's bugged apparently

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/cmDXTYtR26

[gleaming aspen]

if light is viable theyll merf it anything above usable is strictly gor heavy

[analog pewter]

when all you want to do is wipe, everything looks like toilet paper.....

[unkempt moss]

Probablt just changed the breakpoint on something

[unkempt moss]

This is correct. Lights have zero viable guns currently and its starting to piss me off. Lights go in to every fight at such a steep disadvantage. What is embark even doing

[analog pewter]

lights work well in a coordinated team but being balanced solely around that makes them frustrating to play solo at the best of times

[unkempt moss]

Heavy players are already handsome, intelligent, well spoken, and cool. They do not need their characters to be buffed.

If we can get a light weapon above d tier this season it'll be an act of god.

V9S hit MGL levels of usability and it got nerfed. Insane.

[analog pewter]

i think you're overstating your case tbh

[unkempt moss]

Maybe. It may just be because im so tired of light getting zero help from embark. Very frustrating.

[analog pewter]

lights are the weakest class rn for sure but they still have very strong tools. V9S, M11, the ARN and 93R are still good, SH1900 is polarizing as fuck at low to mid elo/against uncoordinated teams, XP-54 is fine, throwing knives are fine, matter is better than people give it credit for. and not mentioning that H+ and gateway are still very very useful, glitch grenade's new cooldown makes it arguably stronger in sustained fights, thermal bore has gained a lot of potential, and sonar can carry teams in solo q

[unkempt moss]

Im just frustrated. Sorry.

[analog pewter]

nah you're right to be i getchu
i totally understand what you're saying for sure and mostly agree

[unkempt moss]

These lights just keep coming at me on heavy and they dont stand a chance. They need help. They get mauled so easily.

[analog pewter]

i want light buffs too
but i also want the V9S un-buffed

[neon mirage]

imo the biggest thing light lacks is genuinely viable utility in as big amounts as other classes have

[analog pewter]

survival utility imo is what they could use the most rn
they only really have goo grenade and vanishing bomb

[spiral minnow]

In my opinion, light class needs to be Nerfed or something, especially the blade. I once held a cash out for an entire minute against like an onslaught of a team.

[neon mirage]

i meant more specifically class-specific utility, but i forgot to write that word there

[analog pewter]

the big problem with light imo is that they have to be absolutely, surgically precise in every single play they make, which is extremely hard to do in such a chaotic environment without good comms. any mistake is almost guaranteed death, and half of their weapons exacerbate that issue by being super punishing

[unkempt moss]

They nerfed infuser to trash tier. Gateway is unusable now. Nullifier may as well be a tickle finger

[analog pewter]

gateway is still quite good! 50 meters is nothing to scoff at

[unkempt moss]

Sonar grenade only rivals tracking dart for vision.

[analog pewter]

there's a reason competitive teams run H+ still, too. thing is extremely clutch. but again, only really in coordinated teams

[neon mirage]

yeah, i would say gateway is like the only thing light has as viable utility thats light specific

[unkempt moss]

Then they buff rpg????

[neon mirage]

h+ sure is good but all classes can heal atp

[unkempt moss]

Right. That's a mediums job anyway.

[analog pewter]

yeah the RPG buff is silly

sidenote but I've never seen someone so impassioned about the un-viability of a class they (seemingly) don't play. like you're talking from the perspective of a heavy player right? I think that's interesting

I play all 3 classes and light is by far the most..... aggravating. it doesn't help that their toolkit is simultaneously kind of selfish and also not very helpful to keeping themself alive.

[unkempt moss]

Heavy gets most fun weapons, gadgets, specs. I cant imagine getting home from a hard day and saying "I cant wait to play the call of duty knock off class"

[analog pewter]

hey now, they have titanfall DNA too

[unkempt moss]

Not really.

[analog pewter]

maybe im saying that as a grapple user

[unkempt moss]

I wish they had the TF grapple.

[analog pewter]

they should give light a grenade launcher, but it's a clone of the softball from titanfall and has really bad splash damage so it's mainly rewarding for direct hits

[unkempt moss]

Give me Grapple and run and gun on a C.A.R. and I'll play light.

[analog pewter]

wonder if "hipfire while sprinting" would be a fair thing for light to have

some weapons would have to be exempt though, like the bow

[unkempt moss]

Some day people will play light and it'll be like 3% exciting. But for now they just get nothing.

[analog pewter]

I have fun when the team is working well together. but like that's rare looool

[unkempt moss]

Heavy is the only option in the game if you want to play some proper Finals.

GooKings official patch will fix it. Just need Embark to DM for the fixes.

[boreal garden]

Bring back pyros for us, as a flame main , it was not a fun nerf for me 😢

[unkempt moss]

Just give fire anti heal and you can leave it alone for the most part

Gives it a nice niche. Buffs fire all around.

[compact tundra]

I've gotten my sword lunges pretty consistent and it took so long especially with them being changed

[neon mirage]

but yeah, imo light needs more gadgets that apply glitch other than just a nade, and some other light-specific utility

[boreal garden]

That would actually make Pyro nade sick

[unkempt moss]

Flame thrower would be insane. Cerb would be a lot more fun.

[unkempt moss]

The last hit on that heavy where youre barely moving and you basically just flick his nipple with the sword is so funny.

And people tell me dual blades on light wouldn't be more fun than this.

[compact tundra]

Yea a lot of my sword kills are lingering hit boxes cause of how fast I move

[compact tundra]

I get the idea behind it but I have to disagree just because grapple sword is so damn fun

[unkempt moss]

Its fine, every light says the same thing. Lights are their own worst enemy when it comes to making the games fun for themselves.

Just give Cerb to heavy and theres nothing of worth on the other classes really.

[neon mirage]

like, for example what if the cloak effect, both from the spec and the vanish bomb, would allow players move/phase thru walls and objects if crouch-walking while under the cloak effect

[unkempt moss]

Dual blades handles like ass on medium because they dont have any proper movement. Even if they can kill effectively now.

[compact tundra]

Idk I think there's lots of fun things on all classes. I play all 3 pretty evenly and they all have their benefits.

Light has gateway, vanish bomb, dash, grapple, SWORD, bow, double barrel, breach charge, ECT...

Medium has heal beam, dematty, model, CERBERUS, dual blades/riot shield, cl40 + gasmine, data reshaper, ECT...

Heavy has winch claw, mesh shield, C&S, GOO GUN, flamethrower, sledge, spear, flamethrower, mgl, lewis gun, minigun, ks-23, anti grav cube, dome shield, ECT...

[unkempt moss]

Double Barrel is probably the funnest thing on light for me. Cerb on Medium. Outside of those its hard for me to really say id be excited to play any of the other weapon. The weapons don't feel bad, its just not that exciting.

[compact tundra]

You tried sword? Sword goes real fast and that's pretty fucking fun once you get good at it

[unkempt moss]

I haven't played it more than once. I dont really like the lunge part of it.

For me, if I wanted to play sword the Sledge kind of hits the same notes. Has destruction. And the right click is a lot more satisfying.

[compact tundra]

The thing with sword is the lunge, I hated it for a while until like season 3 when I learned about super lunging, that makes it feel way better

[unkempt moss]

How do I super lunge?

[compact tundra]

You jump towards the end of the lunge

You can also flick your crosshair upwards for a bit more distance

[unkempt moss]

Kinda reminds me of Overwatch movement optimization.

[compact tundra]

I played some over watch but only really played the junkers and never really got that sweaty

[unkempt moss]

Its like doom rollouts basically.

[neon mirage]

i suppose here is examples of the super lunge, right?

[compact tundra]

Also so my weapons bias's are on full blast this is my personal weapon tier list

[unkempt moss]

Why akimbo in buns?

[compact tundra]

Yes but those are near perfect super lunges, yours won't look like that at first

[neon mirage]

fair

[compact tundra]

I don't like em, it's burst ranged on heavy and I also don't like using them, they don't click with me

BFR went up a tier cause I like using it but don't like its concept

[unkempt moss]

I wish they would give them good hipfire and bad range. For some reason embark loves giving pistols good range.

In my balance patch Akimbos get a fat range nerf, big hipfire buff, and good accuracy while sliding and airborne.

[neon mirage]

i like bfr in concept, as in a massive revolver, but i dont like it being the meta

[unkempt moss]

Why

[neon mirage]

or rather overall i dont like using meta weapons personally

[compact tundra]

The Titan, the KS-23, & the D-eagles

I think the addition of the titan, though a fun concept, was executed extremely poorly and didn't have nearly enough thought put into it. First off, embark spent season 7 talking about how they wanted to slow down the release of new weapons and focus on balancing the litany of weapons already at their disposal. And this is a good idea, we don't need to flood the game with too many weapons and there are plenty of underperforming weapons with very unique and fun designs that would be really cool to see become viable. So the question is asked of why after an entire season of clarity and a well thought out plan, did embark immediately add a weapon that completely out classes a fan favorite niche weapon (the KS-23), and to add to the insult the Titan is literally the embodiment of all the buffs many people were asking to be put on the KS. A powerful headshot multiplier and a less punishing reload. On top of that they gave the Titan (a burst damage weapon on heavy) exceptional range which completely throws off heavies balance and adds a powerful ranged option to the best camping class in the game.
I think the best step that could be taken is to nerf the BFR’s range to be on par with the d-eagles, then nerf the headshot damage just enough to remove the winch headshot combo. Then buff the KS-23’s damage to 110 per shot and remove the hipfire penalty off the weapon.

Now the D-eagles have better sustain and good headshot TTK, the BFR shreds on headshot and still has decent range for such a powerful burst weapon, and the KS-23 has destruction utility, plus a more consistent close range with no hip penalty, less mobility penalty, and QM combos.

This is from my balance sheet

D-eagles (Akimbo)
Range is nerfed so falloff starts at 26m and ends at 32m.
I feel the lewis gun should be the longest range weapon in heavies arsenal due to its relatively high difficulty to use and its lower burst damage. D-eagles to me just shred a little to well to have comparable/better range than the lewis

BFR
Decrease range where falloff starts at 26m and ends at 36m
I think as long as the BFR has better range as a burst weapon, the D-eagles will not have a good enough reason to be used in higher level play. Though I will acknowledge it is designed to be a better ranged option so I'm making its max falloff range farther than the D-eagles.
Buff mag size to 6 shots
5 shots for a revolver is dumb imo. Maybe there's an irl reason but until I'm told it, a 5 shot revolver is dumb and these nerfs make a mag buff acceptable.
Post 8.3 the damage is about where I'd want it.

KS-23
Buff damage to 110 per shot
The KS-23 pump should be passive, so it can be canceled with mesh like the SA-12’s barrel rotation
Remove hipfire spread penalty
Lower the movement and airborne spread penalty to be just about on par with the mediums revolver spread when crouched.
I think all these buffs to the KS-23 won't overtune it due to its punishing reload and limited mag size. Along with the BFR and D-eagles superior range

[neon mirage]

tbh imo if bfr had a fan the hammer as the right click function (faster fire rate for lower accuracy) instead of the ads, it would be more unique

[unkempt moss]

That would probably go to Medium if anything

[compact tundra]

I kinda think that needs to be its own weapon, maybe give light a fanning hammer revolver that's accurate but low damage. Or maybe medium

[neon mirage]

altho that is a major can of worms in balance in terms of it would compare to actual bfr we have so idk

[compact tundra]

Also if you want a tldr of that book I sent I can make one, I just realized I dropped like 3 paragraphs outta nowhere

[unkempt moss]

I read it.

[compact tundra]

Fair

[neon mirage]

have you ever played fistful of frags?

[unkempt moss]

I get the main idea of it. When I was begging for double deagles back before they released i envisioned more action movie scenarios where I come through a wall and blasting things with them. Not giving the heavy a pike

[compact tundra]

Yea BFR was the same for me. I wanted someone to get a fanning hammer revolver that's hipfire accurate but lower damage so I could play a quick draw style revolver, instead we got the revolver ported over to heavy but bigger

[unkempt moss]

I actually think the KS vs Titan match up is fine. Mainly because of the utility trade off of the KS.

Youre basically choosing dueling or utility. And I actually like where thr Titan is at because of the long barrel.

[compact tundra]

I would like to see ks get a little more love and something unique combat wise other than destruction, which is why I like the qm combo idea, it'd have similar break points to the BFR but a shorter range and the ability to qm to change the breakpoints

[neon mirage]

but ye, for a fan the hammer i would prefer a revolver thats a single reload like the bfr is, cuz imo balance wise you could make it actually more powerful compared to a a full reload like with medium revolver, which ofc would need the fan the hammer to be made less powerful cuz of the reload making it spammable

[unkempt moss]

I know "heavy shouldn't have range" but I think thats not a great philosophy.

[compact tundra]

I just think heavy should have a lower effective range for burst damage, that's why I like the lewis gun, it gives heavy the boosted range but at the trade off of sustained damage and a punishing recoil

[unkempt moss]

Because the titan can kind of be the stand in for the heavy sniper begging.

[neon mirage]

heavy imo can have range, but with way bigger limits in other areas compared to other classes

i dont really see what kind of proper limits for ranged usage does the bfr have

[unkempt moss]

For most fights you're taking on heavy you're not going to be worrying about fall off on the titan.

[neon mirage]

also, gtg, just realized its 3 am over here

[compact tundra]

Oof fair enough, see ya

[compact tundra]

I'd agree, I think the effective range of the weapon really only matters for higher levels of play and more skilled players who can really use that range, most BFR heavies aren't an issue cause most heavies don't go out of their way to engage at farther distances

That's really just a skill cap thing and to stop specific play styles rather than a general player issue

[unkempt moss]

I guess theres a poke meta going on. Im just not in touch enough to feel it I guess.

[compact tundra]

Eh, I don't see the pike meta much cause I only really play casual game modes. Since I love swapping loadouts cashout and ranked cash out don't really appeal to me. But I like to approach balancing from all angles rather than just the one I'm most familiar with

[unkempt moss]

I always find it so odd how different my vision of and for the game is than the discord.

[compact tundra]

Idk I kinda align with most the regulars in this channel. I'm a bit of a weird player since I spend most my time getting better at the game and trying to sweat but I only play casual cause I like swapping and don't like having to sweat

[unkempt moss]

My duo and I usually play ranked to get all the skins and then drop it for world tour grind.

[analog pewter]

i kinda think maybe gas should have anti-heal more than fire

[unkempt moss]

Or just for another game like last season. Which I didnt pick back up until the end to clear the circuits and battle pass.

[analog pewter]

gas is in a worse place than fire i think

[compact tundra]

I tried ranked for 1 season, solo queued up to gold 1 in 3 weeks and then had the worst losing streak of my life and plummeted back down to silver 3 before climbing back up to gold 3 and dropping ranked cause I found the grind unfun

[unkempt moss]

That's why I don't understand the freak out about ranked skins. If youre playing rank for skins above improving yourself youre doing it wrong.

[compact tundra]

I usually just play head to head and now break point. But I occasional play cash out, quick cash, powershift, and team death match

[compact tundra]

I kinda get it just cause I understand the love of bragging rights. I show off my beta skins whenever I get the chance

[unkempt moss]

Yeah I use the skins that fit my outfit and the ranked skins are so ugly I never use them.

[analog pewter]

give light an impact grenade that doesnt deal damage but makes it so damage dealt to affected targets has some % of life steal

[unkempt moss]

Is Gas considered bad?

[compact tundra]

Mostly same but I get having skins to show off, I know whenever I run M11 or m60 I'm showing off those beta skins

[unkempt moss]

I feel like for its use its really good.

[compact tundra]

I think it is

[analog pewter]

its just my impression that fire options are generally better
pyro mines and grenade seem better than gas mines and grenade
gas isn't bad but fire clearing gas means it's more easily taken care of. smoke is just seen less often

gas having anti-heal would also be balanced against it being more easily cleared

[unkempt moss]

Then sure give it to gas.

[compact tundra]

I want fire to have anti heal since it'll also give Cerb and flamethrower niche uses that don't involve direct buffs and I want gas to do percentage health damage so it is good at clearing rooms and kills all classes at the same rate to give it a weird niche use

[analog pewter]

that's true actually, fire having anti-heal would buff those weapons

[unkempt moss]

That was my thinking on it as well.

[analog pewter]

maybe that is a better choice, it could also push smoke more into the meta as a counter to anti-heal and we could see more plays involving smoke as a result

[compact tundra]

I am biased here tho since I love both Cerberus and flamethrower

[analog pewter]

I think what I would do for gas is ||make it suppress sprinting when you're in the gas cloud ||

[unkempt moss]

Raider is in the chat

[compact tundra]

That would make smoke gas crazy

[analog pewter]

i havent bought arc raiders actually

[unkempt moss]

Gas hits your stamina bar in arc

[analog pewter]

might be too evil yeah
if nothing else at least make the gas damage radius more closely match the visual, the actual space it deals damage is so small...

[compact tundra]

That I can definitely agree with

[unkempt moss]

They need like a plume update. Things going through walls, not traveling with the grenade feels so bad.

[analog pewter]

i cant remember which cod game it was but i think one of the gas grenades forced you into hip fire for a second upon entering it as you do a sort of coughing animation. that might be an okay buff, doesn't suppress movement or anything but restricts your ability to ADS

would need exemptions for weapons like bow, TK, and melees

[compact tundra]

That could be cool, it'd also be a very funny anti poke gadget then

[analog pewter]

yea and a melee buff if they're exempted!

[compact tundra]

Ooooo, my sword brain is tingling

[analog pewter]

might be overall healthy to curb poke and allow more melee plays with a gadget like that

maybe make the gas nade less bouncy while we're at it so it goes where you want it to be

[compact tundra]

Honestly with your change I'd like to see gas nade change into a gas nade T-shirt style cannon that can shoot way farther and explodes upon impact, also a little line that shows you where it'll hit

Think scorches thermite cannon from Titan fall 2

[analog pewter]

now you're making me think of a scrap cannon style weapon that never has to reload but instead uses alt fire to consume deployables, canisters, basically any movable or throwable junk and turns it into ammo

[compact tundra]

That's a cool weapon design, give it to heavy and itd be a cool wacky weapon like the mgl

[analog pewter]

oh you threw a sonar grenade? yoink!

idk if we need to give heavy partial data reshaper though lmao

[compact tundra]

So the data reshaper as a weapon, thats fun as shit

Nevermind give that shit to medium

[analog pewter]

it has to make a super satisfying SHTHUNK sound when it sucks up something big

[compact tundra]

Weirdly with the last message I was thinking of King K. Rool's gun from smash ultimate feel wise, but design wise the junk jet from fallout

[unkempt moss]

Is swapping weapons and gadgets completely out of the question? Has embark said anything about it.

[mellow hull]

nope

[analog pewter]

im realizing the hole in my heart with this game is the lack of a very specific weapon archetype
a projectile weapon that doesn't do headshots, doesn't have strong (or any) AoE splash, and simply rewards good direct-hit shot placement

the closest in other games is the grenade launcher in tf2 whose rollers are really weak so direct hits are the way to use it, and the softball in titanfall whose explosions are very easy to avoid

oh and specifically one that is good at killing...
rly the TF2 GL is the blueprint. I could take that weapon with just direct hits and have fun.
give light a fucking, sling to throw rocks with, idk LOL

all the projectile weapons in this game are either headshot-focused or splash-focused. none of them are just about hitting those directs and being consistent with that

KS-23 is only barely a projectile weapon, due to its inaccuracy over range and how fast the projectile travels it's not really close to what I'm feeling

||also i want this on light ||

[sudden pewter]

KS23

[analog pewter]

read more bro

[analog pewter]

ks-23 is not meaningfully a projectile weapon in the way im describing...
i want something focused on shot-leading aim skill even in close range

but which isn't reliant on headshots

ideally one that cant even headshot

[unkempt moss]

So you want a CL40 with no splash?

[sudden pewter]

Direct Hit

[swift agate]

I can see this done with the m79 thumper. relatively slow projectile speed, pitiful splash damage, but very high impact damage and a fast reload, maybe about as fast or slightly slower than a sniper rechamber

[unkempt moss]

Has to be on light as well.

[analog pewter]

basically yeah, no splash but faster fire rate

[analog pewter]

not to tweak but I'm also highkey addicted to arcing projectiles. I'd fuck with them doing something like the DH but I would prefer more like the loch n load

softball in titanfall is definitely one of my favorite weapons of all time

[analog pewter]

akimbo thumpers

[unkempt moss]

Hopefully light gets that weapon for you...

[swift agate]

interesting, but probably too much

[sudden pewter]

Naw fuck that

[swift agate]

of course the resident light hater would object, what else is new?

[analog pewter]

yea i pray. it would be my favorite way to play light for sure
throwing knives is close-ish to what i want but it's headshot reliant and very spammy

new light weapon: bricks. you just throw bricks

https://tenor.com/view/cat-throwing-brick-brick-cat-gif-9142560192559212520

[unkempt moss]

I just dont see a world in which this weapon doesnt get mauled at every range

[eager wasp]

make ks fully projectile again!!

[analog pewter]

you'd be surprised
if it can two-shot light, and fires something like 80 RPM, it'd be competent at least
not needing to headshot means the user can just focus on shot-leading and placing it center-mass
and it feels really good to land shots like that. its some of the best weapon feel in any game

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/boykisser-you-like-kissing-boys-don't-you-cat-lowpoly-3d-gif-9960745507421464646

[unkempt moss]

Hey im just glad its going to light.

They can throw 80 bricks a minute all they want.

[analog pewter]

LOL

i dont literally mean brick throwing though that would be an incredible way to implement this weapon idea and would easily become my all-time favorite

I don't mind having a little bit of silliness personally

[unkempt moss]

I just know how much I see lights complaining about the BFR and now we want to fight Dr. Robotniks ultimate nuke cannon light obliterater by throwing rocks.

[analog pewter]

absolutely
rock throwers thriving

[unkempt moss]

Honestly they would probably make it work before they fix MGL so who knows.

[cosmic oriole]

Y'all I got a crazy skin pack idea

Deep dish pizza Lewis Gun + Pizza slice throwing Knives + Pizza box CL40

[modest lynx]

Can we get a Pizza cutter dagger with that combo

[hardy dust]

Some kind of grenade launcher, since M and H both have one and it fits within the theme of the finals, does like 125 dmg or smth, 80ish rpm, maybe like 60m/s (about 1.5x cl40 projectile speed, I have no clue what speed would be good for a more direct hit focused weapon like this), either like 4 round mag or really fast reload, barely any splash damage so you basically need to go for direct hits.

[cosmic oriole]

Dude
Ketchup and mustard bottle gateway

[hardy dust]

Although the breakpoints would be iffy

125 dmg means 2 shotting medium and at 80 rpm that's really fast, but missing a shot is very punishing

[modest lynx]

HARD, Burger Goo with that bundle

[unkempt moss]

Id love to see it. Basically a KS with faster ttk.

[hardy dust]

Yeah pretty much, although the projectile speed would be much slower

So it would be a lot more punishing

I don't think it would be good but it could be a niche pick with a high reward potential

[unkempt moss]

Not really. If it doesnt have innacuracy or bloom, people that have played more than a few hours of a game that works entirely off of projectile would be crushing at 125 damage.

[hardy dust]

I feel like it would play pretty similar to m26

The damage profile and rof are nearly the same, and id assume they have the same mid air accuracy

[cosmic oriole]

Burger... Healing emitter

[hardy dust]

They'd both be good at about the same range, with m26 being a bit more consistent but having a less optimal ttk

[swift agate]

80rpm would be insane for any weapon that deals 125 damage. I would say 50 would be nice. slightly faster than, say, a sniper or bow which both do slightly less damage but can hit headshots. you'd want to pick the gl over those because of the way it cleanly overcomes the 2 shot medium breakpoint while still being able to oneshot-qm combo lights, and it would be picked over the matter or db because it has better range, but it would difficult enough to use that it wouldn't be broken in the hands of the average player and it wouldn't invalidate the roles of any of the weapons I mentioned previously

[modest lynx]

He Cooks Once again

[analog pewter]

hmmm idk, having the same ttk for light and medium seems odd, I'd go for a 2/3/4 setup. if 80 RPM is too slow then try 90.

like a flat 100 damage per hit, maybe 105 so you can 2-shot QM or 3-shot QM medium or heavy

[modest lynx]

Goo could be the fries?

[hardy dust]

That could honestly be pretty good, but I don't think 90 rpm would be good enough

[unkempt moss]

He says hes fine with it being terrible though as long as its in the game.

[hardy dust]

I mean its gonna get basically outclassed by most other picks with a similar damage profile

[swift agate]

i think lower damage at higher rpms would make it too consistent, especially if it's like the m79 where the reload is just the limiting factor for the rpm so there is no real downtime factor

[hardy dust]

M79?

[swift agate]

I think it should be slower and deal a lot of damage

[swift agate]

like the m79, not like a weapon in the game, but the example used as the grenade launcher it would be based on

[hardy dust]

Ohhhh okay

[unkempt moss]

Typically grenade launchers dont have damage fall of do they?

[swift agate]

they can, but not always

[analog pewter]

imagine it's this thing firing non-explosive rounds lmao

[unkempt moss]

In the finals

[hardy dust]

They don't have any but it could be added if needed

[swift agate]

holy moly it's the hullcracker

[unkempt moss]

I guess the point of it being a grenade launcher is made aesthetic at that point.

[analog pewter]

yeah IMO in this case it shouldn't have falloff
should be 100% consistent, the main thing it should lack is OHKO potential but make up for it in consistency due to not having headshots, similar design principle to the KS-23 but replacing short-range with arcing projectile

[unkempt moss]

So it looks like a grenade launcher functions like a bullet.

[hardy dust]

105 dmg with something like 95-100 rpm?

[unkempt moss]

With a faster projectile speed than the CL40.

[analog pewter]

honestly? slower
I like the shot-leading minigame

[hardy dust]

Kinda? It just doesn't do proper splash but its nowhere near hitscan

[swift agate]

I really think trying to make a grenade launcher work as a generalist consistency weapon is a mistake and would either lead to it being completely busted or absolutely terrible. I really think it should be a risk/reward weapon where you have a slow firing speed but very high damage

[analog pewter]

I think its restriction at long range should be that you can damn near see the projectile coming and dodge, which the CL-40's is a little too fast to do reliably

[unkempt moss]

So you want an MGL that does direct hit damage.

[hardy dust]

Although cl has splash damage, so small adjustments to avoid this weapon would make much more of a difference

[analog pewter]

105 at 95 RPM accomplishes that I think, it's similar in profile to the repeater which is a punishing weapon to miss with
its only a bit faster

[hardy dust]

That damage and rpm is closer to cerberus than repeater

[unkempt moss]

I mean you can see what it looks like. The MGL has an RPM of 90.

And he wants slower travel speed than the CL.

[hardy dust]

Lowkey inventing throwing knives 😭

[unkempt moss]

He doesn't like the headshot on throwing knives

[hardy dust]

Yeah its basically throwing knives but without headshots and consistent rpm instead of burst

[unkempt moss]

So throwing knives but with no headshots and no right click?

[analog pewter]

im ngl if the MGL did 105 on direct and could direct hit at all it would be a fucking MENACEEEEEE
maybe the best heavy weapon in the game

[hardy dust]

Maybe not best but it would be really good

Like stupidly good

[unkempt moss]

I based my Mgl rework on bombking from paladins.

[analog pewter]

i like betty more

i basically just want a weapon that feels like this and isn't a crutch with splash damage like the CL-40

I think in this case we're def talking about a weapon that should have a reload. 105 at 100 RPM would be very strong, it should have some penalty for missing

[unkempt moss]

Bomb king has the best grenade mechanics in shooters. The feeling of sticking someone multiple times and detonating. Knowing they can't do anything about it.

Them delivering a small nuke to their team because they've been stuck 5 times.

[analog pewter]

I just love the simple joy of landing direct hits with slow arcing projectiles and seeing someone's health bar vanish all at once

[unkempt moss]

That healing is nice. It would be a shame if someone did 375 little heavy

Hopefully you get your brick launcher on light, and I get bomb king on heavy. Were not enemies here

[analog pewter]

my least favorite thing ever is that every grenade launcher in every game not named TF2 is just a spambot weapon with really strong aoe that you don't have to aim. I personally love the aim-skill minigame of leading shots and accounting for arc, but I don't like how inconsistent it feels to have to be super precise with headshots

projectile headshotting just..... feels terrible idk
it feels random half the time

this is a subject I care so much about I'm considering writing a video essay about it. it's like, the missing middle of projectile weapons

[unkempt moss]

I dont mind it. Especially playing a lot of projectile based shooters throughout my life. I see why that section feels underrepresented though.

I think I also like the Bomb King rework with the finals because you could use it for traps, destruction, GooGun hot swapping.

I can get projectile fun from the arena shooters of the world. Unfortunately Bomb King is stuck in Paladins.

That's why i mained pharah on Overwatch for a long time.

She has kinda what youre looking for without the arc.

[modest lynx]

Bro wants to hit sick pipes and pills in THE FINALS?!! REAL ASF

[analog pewter]

IM JUST THAT GUY!!!

the beauty of the GL in TF2 is that you could remove rollers and splash damage and it would still be a very fun weapon because the entire crux of the weapon is landing crisp direct hits

[modest lynx]

This guy knows Ball

[analog pewter]

rollers being bad was such a good design choice

[modest lynx]

John Demoman, Slinging truths, rollers being deincentivised is goated, you missed Get gud

[analog pewter]

if you put it on light i could do hilarious grapple drive-bys like this

[modest lynx]

As a sword i would hate the air fights so much with this but id have to respect Luh Aim

[analog pewter]

god i want it so bad
the day light gets a projectile weapon like this is the day i become a light main

[modest lynx]

We got Projectile weapons but we Need "The Projectile weapon"

It would lead to some of the most nasty mechanical skill expression in the game with good grapple play

[wild zenith]

yeah this game is cowardly with projectiles

theyre scared of making a weapon that feels too different from hitscan

[modest lynx]

Loosely Projectile weapons as far as the eye can see

[wild zenith]

and what frustrates me is how they handle projectile arcs

usually they fly completely straight for a range, then drop like a rock. It's like they want these mechanics to be nothing more than punishment for being at the "wrong" range, and not something you actually interact with

[hardy dust]

Ngl the best grenade launched ive played was fighting lion from d2

Although that concept just doesn't work in the finals without serious tweaks

[cunning wyvern]

Hoping for a Christmas miracle. Please make the spear alternate attack the ability to throw it, or at least make the action cancellable

[hardy dust]

Spear cancel like in the ltm 🙏

Embark was testing it out and they can do it. They just need to make the change go live

[analog pewter]

if you have a projectile it's either so fast that it only feels like a projectile at longer ranges, or is a spammy AoE weapon that doesn't really benefit from direct hits

[wild zenith]

i saw people talk about tf2 a bit up in the chat. The cool thing about tf2 is that almost every character has the same ttk on every other character, but are differentiated by how easy or hard it is to achieve that ttk in different situations

this is because almost all the weapons can kill every class except heavy in 2 hits, but have variable damage per shot

even if you are in a disadvantaged matchup or situation, its still possible to kill your opponent quicker, its just much harder, nothing is set in stone

there are tiny differences in firing speed tho

[open dune]

Anyone know if these are the same zoom length

[plucky spade]

Tf2 has mostly semi autos, that's what differentiates it from a lot of shooters

[wild zenith]

yeah, tho i think most of them are single action guns, the game allows you to hold m1 because the devs arent anal about realism

[plucky spade]

Single shot weapons are always more fun to use than autos

Anyone who says otherwise has never played arena shooters

[analog pewter]

This is true!

I'm glad we had a productive conversation about projectiles

I hope someday embark meets my hopes

[unkempt moss]

Miniguns are pretty fun. I wouldn't say always.

Firing a giant hmg also pretty fun. This comes from someone who still loves arena shooters.

This is why heavy is king. They have the best of everything.

[wary haven]

T

[wary haven]

I DONT GET HOW PEOPLE USE THIS