💣┇weapons-gadgets

[warm crane]

does anyone else want them to keep the barrakade change. i think it makes it so much better and they should keep it. or at least allow it to clip a little bit so it is still easier to place

[eager wasp]

in its current stage its very exploitable, but making an easier placement would be nice for it, just not as it is rn

[unkempt moss]

Just track it bro

[foggy ore]

Poop

[lilac galleon]

i have played with sr-84, it just my feel or its the mechanic its self, when scooping its feel my sens so low

[slow linden]

Lockbolt is fine,however winch should be removed

Winch does not belong

[serene glade]

sir, a second poop has hit the server

[slender bear]

That's still crazy work imo, "The movement class is faster than the all-rounder, time for nerfs!"

I get that it's team movement, but team movement functions as solo movement on medium too and I don't think closing the gap there is a good idea.

Back when I was testing traversal capabilities of medium and light, I found that light's grapple and gateway could take them roughly 15m further that medium's zipline and bounce pad.
A 20m nerf to gateway means light is legitimately worse at both solo and team traversal now and that's a wild way to balance your glass cannon.

Actually I just tested again and they're just close.
I got it wrong the first time, light can go about 105m and medium can go 85m (with a full team)

Medium can actually go much further if you account for double jump pads or ziplines.

[unkempt moss]

Im assuming the change was to stop the easy vault snatch. They just went about it the wrong way.

Besides goo and glitch grenade what are the best ways to stop it?

[slender bear]

There really aren't any counters except trapping it with mines, which was also kind of an issue.
They could have made the thing destructable before activated, or even removed the ability to take things with you, I don't see why nerfing the distance was the conclusion they came to.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. And then they nerfed the way to deal with it.

Embark is weird like that with balancing

Should just apply my fun patch and hire me.

[unkempt moss]

What are people's ideas for nerfing the famas?

[hardy dust]

Slightly lower fire rate

It doesn't really need any kind of big nerf apart from tiny number tweaks

Its not unbalanced by design just stats, so balancing it is really easy

[slow linden]

I honestly think famas is fine,I shit on it more than I shit on p90

[hardy dust]

The only part of its design that's a bit unbalanced is the fact its burst but thats not really a big issue

Anyways nerf bfr and repeater, gut winch 🙏

[unkempt moss]

Did they go through with the damage nerfs on the bfr?

I only skimmed the notes

[hardy dust]

They lowered the rpm by 3 💀

[unkempt moss]

Oh they didn't drop the damage like people were saying.

[hardy dust]

Nope

[unkempt moss]

Is the Bfr even a weapon you fire at max rpm

[hardy dust]

Sometimes, but it works fine at lower rpms

[unkempt moss]

I've never fired it that way. Ive always just tried to click heads and it basically shoots when I pull the trigger

Such an odd change.

I suppose they're happy with it to some extent then. I cant say I'm unhappy with it as a heavy player.

[frigid imp]

what should i run on heavy

[next raptor]

Back here again homie? lol try minigun with mesh - dome, lockbolt , and a wildcard like c4 or grav cube or whatever else you like. I got all kinds of heavy builds

[zinc obsidian]

p90 just dominates lights

[next raptor]

How about a goofy one? Ks-23 with charge and slam - dome, rpg, heal ball

[zinc obsidian]

accurate, faster, and does more dmg in range compared to anything lights have
WHY

[frigid imp]

i just feel so useless when i solo que

[unkempt moss]

What exactly makes you feel useless

[frigid imp]

not doing enough or damging people enough

or just getting merked

[zinc obsidian]

P90 med ruining games

[next raptor]

Your job as heavy is to be a bullet sponge for your team to get clean up kills relatively safely. If you feel like you are just dying like crazy that’s normal. You either need teamplay or just patience. Try to play for fun an stick to one thing you like and you’ll figure it out

[zinc obsidian]

AIM LABS DID FUCK ALL FOR TEACHING AIM FOR ME

[frigid imp]

i dont even like heavy that much none of my friends will play him im the only one

[zinc obsidian]

it gave me carpal tunnel

[next raptor]

I mained heavy for a few seasons. When ks-23 winch was good that’s all I used. Everyone I met in solo queue would complain but I literally had 300 hours on just that build so I learned to use it really well. I think you just gotta put in the time and try some stuff.

[unkempt moss]

Are you playing ranked?

[frigid imp]

no just casual

[unkempt moss]

Then play what you want to play. Enjoying what you play will make you want to go for a lot longer than playing what you think is needed. My squad will run whatever they and we can get dubs.

You will find a moment in the future where the game kind of clicks for you and you gain your first bit of game sense. And it will hook you. It'll be a play you make that works or a clutch or whatever it is. Be playing the thing you enjoy when they happens.

The finals is great because you can win by being smarter, not a better shot. And you can win with anything. Will it be every time, no.

[vocal flume]

servers ruin the weapon damage and its wild how pathetic this is going on for

[unkempt moss]

In fighting games people do this same thing. They ask who is good becaude they think it'll give them an advantage. The answer is to play something you want to keep going back to. Play triple light or LLM. It doesn't matter, especially in casual.

[next raptor]

I agree with that. Ks-23 winch hooked me (pun intended) because I used to play overwatch and I mained roadhog over there lol very similar gameplay and I enjoyed it a lot. And now I have 900 hours on this dam game 😂

[frigid imp]

what gadgets are good on light

[fierce fulcrum]

nerf the v9s asap that too broken almost 1 tap light and can kill like in 2-3 sec a m 4-5 a h

[vocal flume]

bruh thats every gun for me, mine dont do anything but i get melted

[sinful python]

What in the fuck did they do to the V9S

V9S is all you need since this company seemed to think that releasing this thing into the wild was okay.

[unkempt moss]

They took one of the only guns in the game firing a round moving slower than the speed of sound and gave it a range buff for god knows what reason. But they didnt nerf the titan so its fine. Just keep clicking the tiny little guys until they stop using their new toy.

The balancing team has a severe lack of creativity.

[plucky spade]

Lmao lies, the p90 range didn't change

And also the v9s literally gained 10 meters and 3% less falloff

[placid slate]

Still the 93r

[vocal flume]

p90 isnt even a hitscan gun, its like a projectile, i had to aim infront of someone while shooting to actually damage them'

[unkempt moss]

I believe thats just server latency if anything. Im pretty sure the p90 is a hitscan weapon.

[plucky spade]

The dead internet theory lives on

[vocal flume]

literally had it last game, i dunno why but this is the 2nd time i had to aim infront of someone to deal damage as they were running,

[plucky spade]

Desync, considering embark's unwillingness to run their servers elsewhere and software bloat ( because the players NEED one quadrillion guns for their tiktok minds to be satisfied )

[vocal flume]

its not only that but the more console players in the match the worse the damage and registration

[plucky spade]

This is flat earth levels of responding.
Turn crossplay off and see what's what

[vocal flume]

it gets better, crossplay is an issue that embark needs to address, the more console players in a match the LESS damage pc players do and the more damage console does, its a literal fact and if you dont notice then thats on you but its a serious server issue

[indigo nexus]

Do you have a clip?

[indigo nexus]

Latency doesn’t mean you have to lead your shots.

[placid slate]

Bit more range

[tough kiln]

crazy

[spring spear]

i think you just dont know damage numbers man

im on pc and i have never done less damage than console players or had my game run worse in lobbies filled with consoles

also p90 is hitscan and server latency does not make you lead your shots, itd just make the shots take longer to register

[vocal flume]

unfortunately not but i was moving the aimer infront and the bullets of the p90 were flying the left side, if i get it again ill try to clip it

[vocal flume]

you dont understand servers = damage numbers, the poorer the server the worst the damage as shots wont regitser properly and deal the proper amount per shot, it happens, i know it doesnt happen to you since you have the best connection and no issues but it does happen

[vocal flume]

why would the shots take longer to register if its hitscan? lol

[hardy dust]

You're either getting full damage or no damage

[spring spear]

because the server isnt receiving information as fast and isnt parsing it fast enough, this is literally how internet speeds work

[tough kiln]

i like the dual blades, but they are too strong

[hardy dust]

They are currently one of the worst weapons in the game

[spring spear]

your client isnt sending information fast enough to the server, and the server isnt sending it back fast enough, therefore there is a delay in your game registering your shots

[hardy dust]

Probably bottom 3 weapon rn

[spring spear]

shots not registering properly is one thing but damage stays consistent across the game regardless of server performance because the damage numbers are hardbaked into the game's very code and arent modifiable unless 3rd party software is involved which is against ToS

also the visual representation of your bullets in game isnt accurate to where youre actually aiming, so saying your bullets where coming out from one side means nothing since all the game takes into account is where your crosshair is at the time of shooting, the visuals are just smoke and mirrors

[vocal flume]

you can get partial damage

[vocal flume]

no it doesnt, i dont understand why you cant understand that, the damage is based off the server if the server is poor the damage numbers will NOT be the same at all

[hardy dust]

The only way to get partial damage is if you're in falloff range, in which case it's intended.

But there is no way to get partial damage in range due to any kind of connection issue

[spring spear]

i understand what youre saying completely, youre just wrong

you literally get a feed of the damage your shots have done and its consistent everytime, if even afterwards you still seriously think this is a real thing then youre just doing next level gymnastics

[vocal flume]

its legit a real thing, the damage numbers are not consistent through the entire matches, if the connection is poor the damage can and will be off. im telling you

[spring spear]

dude ive played on servers from across the ocean with high ping and the damage was still consistent
you are describing something that isnt real and cant even be coded into the game in the first place

[vocal flume]

bruh its real, you NEED to understand that.

[spring spear]

i have 2,500 hours in the game and i know its not real, how would you even code this in the first place?

[hardy dust]

Switch up the ragebait vro

[spring spear]

like how would you actually code damage numbers decreasing if the players connection is poor

[vocal flume]

aint no ragebait dude im being dead ass

[spring spear]

the game doesnt have limb-based damage so you cant fool the system into registering the shots in the wrong bodypart, theres genuinely no way to code this

i bet youre just beyond damage falloff range and not understanding that (assuming youre even looking at the damage youre doing)

[indigo nexus]

You have never managed to produce a reason why this might be the case.

At face value it’s a pretty absurd theory, so it would need strong justification to even be considered

“the damage is based off the server” is a semantically meaningless sentence here.

⠀
What’s your theory on why this would happen?

You’re the only person I’ve seen make a claim like this, which is funny because it wouldn’t be too hard to provide clear evidence for if it was true.

[hybrid fossil]

https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/lHoDjy4KPaCTGYPhh?invite=cr-MSxrQWUsNDQ3NjI1NjUx

if lights can do this, sword needs a nerf

[spring spear]

not clicking, sword needs a buff

[junior geyser]

The rage bait is real

[hybrid fossil]

should not whipe a team of 2 mediums and a heavy that quickly, there was no counter

[spring spear]

the counter was not letting the melee into melee range with your guns

[hybrid fossil]

he could dash as soon as he started getting shot, and kill us all in a couple swings

[spring spear]

dude he stood right in front of your heavy while 2 mediums were looking for a solid 2 seconds before anyone even started shooting lmao

and then both mediums grouped up instead of splitting and shooting

[hybrid fossil]

if we did split, he could dash into us both and since's he's so fast, its much harder to hit shots

[hybrid fossil]

and he dropped right in the middle of us, and despite us all shooting him, giving us no time to react so we were all vaporised

[spring spear]

if you did split he wouldnt have been able to shoot both of you at the same time meaning his ttk wouldve been much higher and you wouldve had the time to kill him before he killed both of you even with dash
if he used his dash to run in a straight line towards either of you he wouldve been super easy to hit which means he wouldve been dead before he could kill you due to both of your weapons being able to kill him before his kill either of you
if your argument is "well i couldnt hit him because hes hard to hit" that is entirely on your end

[spring spear]

"despite us all shooting him" when 2 people died before anyone fired a shot lol

[hybrid fossil]

two hits with a normal attack from the sword should not kill a medium, and ive been killed as a medium in two shots at full health many a time

[outer crow]

while riot baton kills medium with 3 hits and slower

[spring spear]

no, you havent, because 2 hits from a sword do roughly 150 damage and mediums have 250

[hybrid fossil]

even that is overpowerd, considering they can dash out the way of shots and hit so fast while hitting multiple targets at once

[outer crow]

light can deal first damage with M2 and then finish with M1 - nothing hard

[spring spear]

they cant dash out of the way of shots if they have hitscans, and while they can hit multiple targets at once, thats precisely why you dont bundle together in the same exact spot

[spring spear]

they cant, even 2 m2 hits dont do enough to kill a medium

[outer crow]

🤔

[hybrid fossil]

i think your mistaken

[spring spear]

you think wrong

[outer crow]

oh

[hybrid fossil]

and if thats the case, they are close enough by then to hit a quick melee and kill

[spring spear]

if you let them get close enough, yeah, usually when a melee weapon gets in melee range they'll be able to kill

even in that situation both mediums decided healing the heavy instead of shooting the light was a good idea, like why did you even switch to heal beam when the enemy was already right in front of you?

[hybrid fossil]

its mostly a combination of dash, they lunge, dash, lunge, quick melee, dead

[spring spear]

in this situation it is entirely a skill v skill scenario, most of medium's weapons can kill a light before a light can kill them, its entirely up to how good the light uses his dash vs how good a medium's aim is

[outer crow]

well 3 sword hits and medium dead

[spring spear]

that is roughly a 3~ seconds ttk vs a medium's average of 0.7 seconds to kill a light though

[hybrid fossil]

i understand that, but lights can kill too fast combined with the dash, and i know i was prolly the worse player but skill based matchmaking could solve this, and it was me and my friends, all play casual, and an emerald who was one of the other memebers of the team

[spring spear]

again its just how good the light's dashes are vs how good the medium's aim is

[indigo nexus]

And if the light was able to get close before being shot initially

[spring spear]

skill based matchmaking wouldnt solve this since the issue is that you werent able to react to the situation properly, in this situation any light with dash wouldve been a problem regardless of how good they were because again, you 2 just let him get free damage on the heavy that was stealing instead of everyone swapping to a weapon and firing the second they heard or saw the light
their fast ttks are needed because they also get killed fast

also emerald is just a playtime check its not an indication of skill

[outer crow]

K/D matchmaking

[hybrid fossil]

good point, how do i counter if i wasnt able to hit the light as it came close due to a mix of it dashing and how it dropped on us in the clip, rather than running up to us where it could be hit

[hybrid fossil]

k/d matchmaking is actually a really good idea, if they can figure out a way to remove players who play badly on purpose to get into lower level games

[indigo nexus]

Well you still have the TTK advantage if that happens, but of course there will always be a point leading up to the end of a losing fight where you can no longer turn it around

[outer crow]

Yep, players with high k/d would stop playing against players with low k/d

but sadly online is shit

[indigo nexus]

And their KD would go down and they’d be put back against the players with lower KD

It’s a less accurate skill estimation system than an elo-like system just because it never converges properly

[outer crow]

there could be multiple variations of low/medium/high

0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 and etc

[hybrid fossil]

its a fair point, but embark can fine tune it so that wouldnt happen

[indigo nexus]

Not possible. They could minimise the impact of it, but the current system for ranked at least already does this entirely. Not sure what system casual modes use

[outer crow]

for example 0.5 would play with 0.4 or 0.6 (20% k/d difference)

but 0.5 vs 1.0 is signifficant difference already

[hybrid fossil]

why am I, a bronze, getting matchmade with emeralds? they were clearly better than me due to playing the game more so its pretty unfair

[outer crow]

and in game 0.5/1.0 can even play against 2.0 which is absurd

[indigo nexus]

How do we differentiate between a top 10% player and a bottom 10% player who currently have the same KD

[indigo nexus]

Emerald isn’t a skill level, it’s mostly an hour counter. But imbalanced matchmaking in ranked is due to a limited pool of available players

[outer crow]

bottom 10% obviosly will never have same K/D with top 10%

[hybrid fossil]

fair point, but there are prolly better ways to fix that than unfair matchmaking. k/d matchmaking isnt perfect but neither is the current system, which i think is worse

[indigo nexus]

If bottom 10% has been playing in bottom 10% lobbies and top 10% has been playing in top 10% lobbies, they could

[outer crow]

Well its Devs job to solve - not ours

[indigo nexus]

It’s just a worse version of the current system. There’s no advantage to it, especially since K/D is not the metric by which player success actually occurs

[indigo nexus]

They already did :p

[hybrid fossil]

they could add objective scores into the mix, or support scores, making it apply more to the finals

[indigo nexus]

That helps, but there still needs to be some demonstrable advantage for it to make sense

[outer crow]

anyway there are solutions for different situations - there are no impossible tasks

[hybrid fossil]

it could be trialed somehow, like in a seperate mode

[indigo nexus]

Well, it should be clear that one can easily create an impossible task as counter-evidence.

It’s probably possible to refine the current matchmaking for better user satisfaction with certain heuristics, but I don’t know how that would be done without being able to collect a ton of data

[outer crow]

For me its a must have for finals, because sometimes game becomes compleately unfun/vomit forcing when playing against monsters of aim

[indigo nexus]

But what’s the point in trialling a new system if there is no reason to believe it would be better? It would only be a less accurate measure of player capability as it’s not actually measuring a player’s capacity to win the game, and is constantly fighting against a form of “drag” that prevents it from converging properly

[hybrid fossil]

balancing is difficult to achieve since everyone has a separate playstyle, but combining combat, support, objective scores into an overall ranked score which determines your rank would be more effective than putting a bronze against emeralds.

[indigo nexus]

Bronzes would still go against emeralds. That wouldn’t change.

The reason that that is happening is because there aren’t a better set of matchmaking players to choose from in the given time window

[hybrid fossil]

we don't know if it would be better unless its trialed, you can't predict the future and say definitively that it would be worse unless everyone trials it, which could be solved with a limited time mode featuring it or somthing

[eager wasp]

bronze and emeralds aren't all that different other than the bronze haven't reached the point of emerald yet

[indigo nexus]

I don’t think it’s really about prediction when it’s quite simple to think about the scenario. The current system:

Take an estimate with increased weighting on recent performance of a player’s skill level based on how likely they are to win compared to players of other skill levels

The proposed system:
Move towards an estimate (weighting has not been discussed) of a player’s skill level based on an approximated metric for how likely they are to win compared to the average player, + a natural resistive force which prevents it from reaching ideal rankings

[hybrid fossil]

but i still dont see a reason why it shouldnt be trialed, it doesn't affect ranked at all as it would be separate, it would be a good thing to at least trial to improve the current ranking system, which is good but clearly not perfect

[indigo nexus]

⠀
A funny idea for an alternate system though; what about AI-based matchmaking? Half serious.

It would be interesting to give users quick surveys on how fair they thought the matchmaking was after each game and use that to train a neural network to predict their target rank based on their past performance. I wonder if that has been done before

[indigo nexus]

It’s separate? Well now you split the playerbase of the mode, making matchmaking much worse for a while anyway. So that’s the reason not to.

[eager wasp]

about to lie my way to some easy lobbies

[hybrid fossil]

okay its a pretty good idea, it could be reinforced if players have an option to agree to an ai tracking the games the entire time, and removing the surveys to stop people of a higher skill matchmaking with newer players

[indigo nexus]

the satisfaction ratings would be used to train its general understanding of what players are happy with and what they are not. It would then try to place you in the fairest lobbies it could in order to maximise everyone’s satisfaction, by using the match histories of everyone in the matchmaker

In practice I expect this would kinda suck, but who knows

[eager wasp]

well it would take into consideration how they performed as well so i don't think higher players lying would get that

[hybrid fossil]

it could work as good matchmaking for quick cash, not as important as world tour and... quick cash is broken as it is

[outer crow]

yep

[indigo nexus]

well, sure, I just don’t see what about it could be beneficial.

[hybrid fossil]

weeell ive mained quick cash for a long time and started playing world tour last season due to how broken its become, k/d/s/o matchmaking would make things a lot better over there...

and world tour matchmaking is good, i won't deny that, but it needs a lot of polishing undeniably

[eager wasp]

welll i wouldn't say that

world tour matchmaking is fucking AWFUL, atleast from my experience, every gamemodes matchmaking is awful

[indigo nexus]

Possible, we know its matchmaking is “relaxed” compared to ranked

though what I’d take from that is “give everything ranked matchmaking” :p

[hybrid fossil]

more linient ranked i would say, i liked quick cash for the fact its... well quick. But lack of matchmaking made it a lot harder to have fun, especiallty since newer players may be more attracted to it. a solutuon could be a quick cash and ranked quick cash, which contributes to world tour while keeping your rank and giving less xp and ranked points, as a way to ease newer players into the world tour system

eh, it was more so thinking out loud than really thinking about it

[sonic zephyr]

as if ranked uses matchmaking and doesnt just take the first few ppl it can find and throws them together

[ebon garden]

can they please nerf the new v9s again, the dps of this thing is outrageous

[hybrid fossil]

it isnt the worst balanced light weapon but a nerf would be nice

[ebon garden]

as an L main i can't even register im being shot b4 im dead and its so annoying to play with it too

[outer crow]

i dont even know why the buffed it

[indigo nexus]

That might be what is used currently, but we don’t know, embark have been vague

[ebon garden]

ye, the reason no one uses it is cus my hadn is tired after 1 cashout round not because it lacked damage or anything

[hybrid fossil]

if they ever do another q/a on reddit, it might be worth someone asking about how ranked works and what they have planned to improve it

[sonic zephyr]

have we ever gotten something of substance out of these q/a's?`shit reads like corporate speech

[indigo nexus]

I think we know how ranked works pretty well, only nobody’s worked out the exact parameters

[hybrid fossil]

asking more about what they do when less people are online and what they could potentially do to help solve that could be worth it

[indigo nexus]

It’s definitely an elo system which works off of computed success probabilities, with some kind of curve to it which adjusts the magnitudes across the distribution of rank imbalances for player satisfaction

[hybrid fossil]

its not a bad system, the problem lies when less players are in ranked and have to go against people that are better

[indigo nexus]

With the matchmaker itself becoming continually less picky about rank discrepancies over time of course according to some second curve, seemingly with the aim of keeping matchmaking times at a couple of minutes

[hybrid fossil]

i wonder if embark could give a pop up when queuing to ask if you would rather play in a potentially harder lobby or wait longer for potentially a better lobby, giving players more choice is always good

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, though they may have been silently A/B testing that anyway. But if not they totally should

[hybrid fossil]

that would be a big help to my problem with ranked and ranked as a whole, i really hope they try that when player numbers are lower in ranked

[pastel veldt]

M11 or Arn?

[outer crow]

m11

[pastel veldt]

mmmm ty :)

[outer crow]

but ARN 220 is not bad too - anyway what u choose - take

[boreal laurel]

Exactly, the buff wasn’t even to DPS—it’s always been this strong, just never this versatile.

[ebon garden]

yeah, you can kill a Heavy with 14 body shots at 70+ meter range

as someone who does not really like the ARN or the M11 im going troug it rn :<

[indigo nexus]

ARN is probably better with how the V9S can fill a similar niche to M11

it still has use but not a huge deal of it
according to a certain ruby player the main reason one would still run M11 is that it has unusually good in-air accuracy, which matters when paired with dash significantly

apparently that's a stat which varies substantially between guns but nobody has exact numbers for

[ebon garden]

v9s is terrible at in air accuracy as a side note*

[pastel veldt]

well... i started like a month ago and those 2 guns are my current favs ( i tried them out a LOT in the range)

so im def not gonna be playing like ruby players so....

arn or M11?

[indigo nexus]

then the question doesn't really matter to begin with

whatever you prefer

[eager wren]

GIVE MEDIUM A NUKE GADGET

[eager wren]

Depends on the range of the fight

[shell sonnet]

what weapon would be the most busted if it could be on any class?

[spring spear]

bfr oh wait

[tall copper]

sniper on heavy lol

[dusk garden]

is it ever a good idea to use the slam attack in charge in slam when on equal fighting height?

[placid slate]

M11, all of the benefits with none of the downsides of playing light

[compact tundra]

What if we buffed the clip to 50 and handed it to medium, imagine how broken it could be then

[compact tundra]

I feel like it'd be sledge hammer or SA-12, either of those on light or medium would be crazy

[outer crow]

Fat sniper

[compact tundra]

Yes, when there is a group of people or to chain hits after eating a few normal charge hits

[shell sonnet]

I do that if i cant be arsed to aim/have to finish someone on low hp off

Also goes a tiny bit further since it the slam cant be stopped even if the time runs out
(I think?)

[weak kernel]

sledge on light would be deeply funny

[compact tundra]

I know, I want a ltm with light sledge and heavy sword so bad

[placid slate]

Heavy sword was busted

You dint give that mf lunge

[stoic garden]

buster sword?

[split skiff]

SA on Light or sword on heavy

[lyric jackal]

light is especially affected by things like being scanned, mines, or glitch, so it would be cool if light had a gadget that could make them undetectable by sonar, glitch trap, sonar trap, and mines

[compact tundra]

Heavy sword was peak and needs to return

[shell sonnet]

would sword on heavy really be that good though?
damage is similar
and you loose the destruction

[shell sonnet]

wait, that was a thing once?

[compact tundra]

It was a glitch that happened before, and it was busted as shit

[indigo nexus]

A sledgehammer that also propels you forward at high-ish speeds is pretty powerful

[shell sonnet]

ok fair
guess im just too used to winch

[compact tundra]

But think, sword on heavy could winch right after lunging to guarantee free qm combos on light, or run mesh shield for a scary ass sword and shield combo

Or imagine getting goo guned from 20m away and by the time it breaks the heavy is on your ass

[shell sonnet]

thats the same for sledge

intuition still tells me it wouldnt be much different, but if the bug really explains it all ill concede

[compact tundra]

I present to you the bug

[shell sonnet]

ok yeah, thats stupid

[visual flint]

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040444450268254248/1253792933312991263/why_think.gif

[outer crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif?ex=693f0899&is=693db719&hm=23d4040317bf4ec5914cae809c889c3c2bde871d2556baec2cde4f6407f2f119&

[sudden pewter]

I’m so happy my beloved gif has caught on

[compact tundra]

GOO PLANES HAVE RETURNED!!!

PEAK HAS RETURNED!!!!!

[outer crow]

Its very funny

[sudden pewter]

??? Explain!!1!1!1!

I hope this doesn’t relate to the barricade in any way

[outer crow]

There is bug of barricade u know.... 😂

when building parts falls - enclose urself with 2 barricades as close as possible - it will trigger fly

[compact tundra]

Hear ye hear ye, dare not hush the herald of trumpets, as we must soar the heavens for our wings have been returned to us

https://youtu.be/pGUOFWcF4Ho?si=av0_VKAx185EN6O5

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-risitas-haha-laught-jaja-gif-14980367

[sudden pewter]

It’s the barricades. This will be fixed unfortunately

Got my hopes up for NOTHING!!1!!11’

[compact tundra]

But they said they won't fix it until they have a rework for barricades ready, meaning unless they lie we have time

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/blanket-attack-cat-biting-blanket-cat-bite-blanket-gif-12318464159245992315

[outer crow]

Typical embarks, what to say

[sudden pewter]

It’s the best of both worlds tbf so we keep planes until the rework is ready

But holy shit this barricade “bug” could honestly just be the rework

It’s so fucking nice being able to plop them down in panic situations and not get killed by a pebble

[outer crow]

And then light players wonder why they are so hated

[sudden pewter]

People that play Light are fine, as they have a better understanding of the game and its ecosystem of weapons/gadgets because they play them.

[compact tundra]

Honestly I hate how much they despise goo planes and non confirmative fun. Let us be goofy in ways y'all didn't intend, who cares if it's not normal it doesn't effect the meta or really balance and is so much casual goofy fun

[sudden pewter]

Goobers that exclusively play Light are dumb and stinky and I hate them because the game is balanced around Lights existence, yet they clamor for more changes to benefit them.

[outer crow]

based

[sudden pewter]

“I shouldn’t have to look down, make us immune to mines”

[compact tundra]

Honestly I agree with this sentiment on any one who exclusively plays one class, tho light is the most annoying. I play all three classes somewhat evenly, I just find sword the most fun and it's what I'm best at

[sudden pewter]

“My mobility should never be hampered in any way, remove Lockbolt”

Obviously I’m cherry-picking because there is a small minority of players that exclusively play Light that better understanding its role in a team and what Lights strengths and weaknesses are in the game, but due to being the most populous archetype (and the most familiar to the average gamer) there’s a disproportionate amount of dogshit feedback that’s just bitching or asking for buffs to an archetype that doesn’t need them

Rules for thee but not for me.

• Light can OHK other archetypes but should never be OHK’d.
• Light should be able to scout ahead, revealing enemy positions but never be revealed themselves.

[compact tundra]

Oh I agree, lights have some awful takes cause it's the most popular class and the most punishing class to play, I honestly wish the game forced you to start with medium so people have to learn a more well rounded class first

[narrow solar]

hey everyone. I played awhile back, when invis was meta and now i come back and arn is actually good and apparently dash is meta? I was watching an appoh video and now im now im confused as to what happened to cloak and vanish bomb

[lofty wedge]

You can see invisible people now

[compact tundra]

That's an old ass meta bro

[sudden pewter]

ARN didn’t exist when cloak was meta

[compact tundra]

Dash is the definitive meta rn but a few pros went cloak during the qualifiers I think. But cloak is kinda countered by good gadgets so dash is the typical pick since it gives you such reliable movement

[muted condor]

Unc hasn’t played since pre alpha 😭 🙏

[compact tundra]

I think season 1 had a cloak and double barrel meta

[sudden pewter]

With Goo becoming more popular on Heavy, and the prevalence of Poke; some Lights swapped to VB to ensure a safer approach

[muted condor]

I want a grapple meta for light. It’s the most fun spec on light and the most fun one to fight as well

[compact tundra]

Idk I hate fighting grapple sometimes cause the rats always have a safe getaway

[compact tundra]

That I knew, I was so hyped to see an underused gadget ive ran for so long actually get the attention I think it deserved, now I'm just waiting for the break point to bring breach charge into a meta

[indigo nexus]

A few went cloak in the final rounds

Or, at least one of them did a couple of times

[compact tundra]

That's cool, they were allowed to swap for final round?

[sudden pewter]

I’m hoping BreakPoint acts as a magnet for new players that seek a familiar experience in a new game

[compact tundra]

I noticed they did like the cash out games and final round games separately almost like they were separate brackets? But I'm confused as to how it worked for the tournament

[compact tundra]

I do too, but trying to get better at it has been hard, it's such a chaotic game mode

[sudden pewter]

Doesn’t help that they didn’t add an out of bounds rescue for the objectives

[unborn turtle]

I want to talk Medium, defibs are so busted. 99% of mediums bring them, so a team with 2 or 3 mediums have this ability to necromancer each other. It's never fun fighting them. Even if you out skill them, they still weasel out. So then this makes the counter play "bring glitch mines to stop all the defibs". So now a "good" medium is locked down to two gadgets to be considered competitive and a team player. Defibs and glitch mines.
How about give the healing gun a way to charge up and rez someone. Make it use 100% or 75% healing gun juice (if available) to quick rez like the defib does. Then replace the defib with a healing grenade that maybe does flat burst aoe heal and then leave a healing zone like the healing barrels, but smaller. This gives alternative specializations more identity without teammates being all "You're a medium with out defib?"
This is all from my very casual experience. I just see mediums doing the defib train all the time.

[indigo nexus]

Seemed like it

[sudden pewter]

Defib reviving teamates is generally suboptimal as patients are:

• 50% Health
• Revive Sick for 5s (no specs or gadgets)
• Death-State (ammo is often low assuming they died fighting)
  If a team is able to effectively revive train it’s more often than not a skill-issue.

Pro level play is not conducive to casual play, casuals are not forced to bring Defibs to be competent.

[compact tundra]

The humble winch flamethrower. Goo gun flamethrower if they're stacking turrets

[sudden pewter]

I hate saying “skill issue” in response to feedback because it isn’t helpful and doesn’t give the person seeking help any avenue to improve.

With that in mind:

• Play with your team.
  If you’re giving a Medium time to revive their teammate mid-fight, and not ending the engagement in time to farm the revived player that’s a red flag something’s amiss.

[shell sonnet]

ive heard the original goo plane was fixed due to an exploit about server crashes

surely if this one doesnt do so (which it doesnt seem like) and is just a goofy nene strat, i hope they keep it

[shell sonnet]

you shouldnt need a 2v1 to have a chance against something
thats like textbook example of a scale being weighed down

and it only takes the medium 1 second of any cover at all, where they could also bhop and slide/charge behind cover to get a free revive off

not saying theyre 100% correct, but i see what they mean

[sudden pewter]

If it’s a team fight (which must be the case given the medium is reviving another medium) then asking to play with a teammate isn’t unreasonable

[shell sonnet]

its suboptimal
but it allowes you to cheese a revive where it wouldve otherwise been impossible

even someone on 50% without items is someone you have to chase down and kill
if they died right as their reload finishes, then they can shoot you right away
and unless you hit all headshots, the defib user will be able to at least shoot back and weaken you, making the defibbed an actual risk

if you even get to shoot them at all
since they only need 1 second of any cover, rather than 5

[sudden pewter]

This goes hard @indigo nexus

[sudden pewter]

It’s not “cheesing a revive” it’s using a utility to 1/2 revive faster than what would otherwise be possible, the defibbed player is significantly more vulnerable & weaker than they would be if hand rezzed

[compact tundra]

I don't get the defib hate, it allows for a shittier res in place of your ability to fight. You can pop a defib and get right back to fighting. But the defibbed teammate is at a significant disadvantage and if you fuck up after defibbing you've basically left them for dead unless they hard clutch up. Is this really any worse than having a grapple light constantly run corpses and keep the pressure constantly up

[unborn turtle]

1 defib isn't an issue, but 3 is crazy. They can just out survive you, running through walls and bringing a guy back in 1 second you happen to take your eyes off the statue. And in casual tournoment play, its often the case when facing off against 3 medums. Even if you win the fight overall it takes forever finally wipe them.

[shell sonnet]

it doesnt, in fact, not need to be

you could have 1v1'd someone, regenerated, and then should have been allowed another fair 1v1
1 item, on 1 player instantly denies that
instead you get a skewed 1v1.5
that is, with any advantage whatsoever, if you arent near cover, constantly watching the statue, anticipating where they will come from and hopefully get to reload while the revived does too

the single defib player gets to create a 1v2 by choosing 1 item
its like back when rpg dealt 150 damage, and you just tell the light to 2v1 to have a realistic chance of a 1v1, while an item completely throws it around

[sudden pewter]

I don’t want to dismiss defib feedback as a skill issue, I want to believe it’s an issue of perspective as I’ve never had any such problems in 275h of gameplay

[muted condor]

Defib is crazy over rated

I will die on this hill

[shell sonnet]

its 5 times faster, since if the 1 second charge goes off, you have to deal with it
the defibbed player will be vulnerable, but so will you be
even if you assume you will be at about the same hp/ammo as the revived after shooting the medium
you need to take 3 1v1's to get the advantage of 2 1v1's, a clear uphill battle that allows the mediums to just make up for mistakes and hope to atrittion your chances down, since they only need to win once, while you need to win every time

[shell sonnet]

oh
coming to think of it, i never saw you mention your hours

its probably partially perspectve too
but imo, there is a decently clear cut mechanical problem behind it

[muted condor]

Getting defibbed as a mini gun player is literally just adding a extra death to my stats

[shell sonnet]

which isnt great either
i wish it was reworked to not be annoying to get revived by

[sudden pewter]

Yeah I’m baby (sub 1k)

[unborn turtle]

I don't want to limit gadgets brought to team comp, I just think a rework is needed for the Defib. Make it more meaningful and less a thing most mediums bring which lead to medium rez trains. Like if it was tied to the healing gun, then the medium would give the breach charge more use as now the medium doesn't have demat.

[muted condor]

Can’t run away, missing half of heavies most valuable resource (health), no gadgets to defend myself, and no weapon because in rather out of ammo if I I died with a mini gun or will take so long to spin up they kill me. 90% of situations it’s better to revive a mini gun normally

[placid slate]

Shit got that 100% pick rate though

[shell sonnet]

opinion differences can be ignored for idea brainstorm

do we got any?

[muted condor]

That’s because there’s only 5 gadgets on medium worth anything

[plucky spade]

Too many ifs, most bad revives ( cheeses ) often lead to team wipes

[sudden pewter]

The majority of players are sheep that copy what pros use without understanding the use cases behind them. A lot of the negative feedback for Defibs wasn’t that they were too OP(until recently) but instead mindless idiots would revive teamates in the open with no cover

[unborn turtle]

give the healing gun a way to charge up and rez someone. Make it use 100% or 75% healing gun juice (if available) to quick rez like the defib does. Then replace the defib with a healing grenade that maybe does flat burst aoe heal and then leave a healing zone like the healing barrels, but smaller.

[placid slate]

Which means defib should not be auto picked since there is 3 gadget slots

[sudden pewter]

Bro wants the MedGun to have a revive ult 😔

I’m sitting this out

[muted condor]

90% of players aren’t smart enough to use glitch trap or prox sensors so that’s why

[shell sonnet]

i think you may got the if's backwards

[shell sonnet]

defib has skins
doubt they would just remove it
we should try working with it as is

[lofty wedge]

Me when I cant decide on a main so I play heavy/light like 80/20

[muted condor]

Also there’s only two gadget slots anymore

[placid slate]

Stun gun got removed

[sudden pewter]

“Main” is just whatever you’re the most comfortable playing. Play every archetype

[muted condor]

Two gadget slots and one goo grenade slot

[shell sonnet]

not its skin, just turned into nullifier

defib could get the same treatment (somehow)

[sudden pewter]

Nullifier uses the exact same model as the Stun Gun. Skins & All 1:1

[lofty wedge]

Why would they get rid of defib?

[placid slate]

So we just lobotomise defib for similar reasons stun gun did

[shell sonnet]

annoying

[muted condor]

They should remove medium entirely fr

[sudden pewter]

Light too

[placid slate]

Heavy also

[shell sonnet]

maybe, yeah
not saying it couldnt be better in a way that isnt frustrating though

[muted condor]

Naw I need people to smash with C&S

[lofty wedge]

That is an opinion, so why would they get rid of it?

[sudden pewter]

I’m an Oscar main

[shell sonnet]

i wonder how this game wouldve panned out without classes

[placid slate]

They got rid of stun for that reason

[placid slate]

It would realistically just be meds

[shell sonnet]

if enough people agree
reason enough

and im sure the odd revive victim would appreciate a rework that doesnt leave them as fish in a barrel too

[lofty wedge]

Stun had no interaction beside kill the guy before you got stunned. Defibs are extremely fair as is

[shell sonnet]

what i meant

[shell sonnet]

questionable
both
🚨 imo 🚨

(please dont snuke me)

[lofty wedge]

Your teammates cant grab you and move you around when youre stunned

[shell sonnet]

huh

[placid slate]

You can kill the mf after your stunned, use gadgets to defend yourself while stunned, work with your team, etc

[plucky spade]

I just mean that the cheese revives just give 500 more dollaridoos to the opposing team

[lofty wedge]

As far as I remember stun completely locked you up

[compact tundra]

It did

You could shoot and later on after some nerfs aim

[lofty wedge]

Yeah I stopped playing because of the stun but before the nerf.

[placid slate]

Why hasn't winch gotten deleted yet actually since stun gun is dead

[shell sonnet]

thats ranked/wt
plenty of other modes wher ethats not a factor

and its crumbs compared to what you can gain if you manage to take or even just steal any cashouts due to its advantage

wt and ranked do play differently to some degree, but that doesnt make the others invalid
(or a rework that suits both a non-option)

[sudden pewter]

Real, Winch suffers from similar balance issues that got Stun Gun reworked.

[lofty wedge]

Ah, my fault. We're just here to complain as opposed to discuss

[placid slate]

I smell bias considering they're only deleting light gadgets

[unborn turtle]

My knee jerk reaction is they should limit defibs 1 per team, but limiting what gadgets you can play with doesn't seem fun either. Idk. I just came off a tourney and faced two different teams of 3 mediums rezing each other and It was stupid, I just wanted to vent to the Finals Void.

[shell sonnet]

your guess is as good as mine

more sa1216 skins maybe?

[sudden pewter]

(You’re right though)

[shell sonnet]

where did that come from?

[lofty wedge]

When i saw "why hasnt winch been deleted yet". It just bothers me that people would rather see something removed than either move to another game or learn to play with that item existing

[placid slate]

Stun gun

[unkempt moss]

Just give medium a faster revive passive. Like 4.5 seconds instead of 7. Let them use the defib as their animation so all the skins clowns can keep their skins.

[shell sonnet]

yeah
i think the history was roughly
-cant do anything, but the light cant shoot
-turn slowly but light can shoot
-can turn at normal speed but cant ads
-can ads (maybe here also gadget usage, couldve been seperate afterwards though)
-removed
-reworked

[lofty wedge]

👏 yes I quit the game because of stun but now I am back. I moved to another game!

[sudden pewter]

Archetype Passives 👎

[unkempt moss]

C4tter 👎

[unborn turtle]

Game already has them, what's the problem with more thought out passives?

[placid slate]

So mfs were both able to move to a different game, and learn to play around that item existing, yet it still got deleted regardless

[lofty wedge]

League of Legends

[compact tundra]

? No we don't?

[placid slate]

Type shit

[unborn turtle]

Movement speed, health pool, hitboxes

[lofty wedge]

League Of Legends

[plucky spade]

Ok vro quick cash is even worse cause there are now 2 teams fighting each other on top of your statue.
Powershift is the exception

[shell sonnet]

im not for straight up removing items, thats why i always try to come up with reworks instead
but i see what some may think in regards to this

the finals is really fun, it scratches an itch that no other can hit (like a lot of games) so you dont want to leave
but then an item can make it so frustrating, or so chore like to play around, that it completely spoils the experience

youre basically stuck in limbo
and sometimes enough complain for that problem to be solved

[plucky spade]

But powershift also makes sr strong sooooo is it really a point of discussion

[compact tundra]

That's just the difference between eh archetypes, not passive abilities

[unkempt moss]

Never understood it, but the greeners hate it. They want defib to mandatory for the life of the game.

[shell sonnet]

respectfully, screw that hellhole

theres a reason i flipped when h2h and point break released

[placid slate]

Twin SR has the worst ttk out of any dmr, while also having bullet drop

[plucky spade]

Well there's a reason it's poopoo now

[lofty wedge]

Thats why diff modes exist honestly. Power shift has a different meta than cash out than point break

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-dance-sea-lion-gif-18060641275691946665

[placid slate]

Because embark decided to nerf an already bad weapon?

[shell sonnet]

why do i feel like ive seen that before

[plucky spade]

Powershift sniper was atrocious

[sudden pewter]

It was popular for a bit

[shell sonnet]

i hate my a and my h key

[placid slate]

Every class has a goo nade or some form of weaponry to deny them

[shell sonnet]

you tease
cmon, remind me what its called please

[sudden pewter]

Vent Horse?

[plucky spade]

Just search horse flip finger meme

[shell sonnet]

no
i dont know that
weird
maybe ill recall it if i look it up

[shell sonnet]

oh, yeah, taht does it

[muted condor]

Me and my full team of heavies cooking a meal and watching tv inside a 5 bedroom house made of barricades and domes while the team of enemy snipers do nothing to stop us

[shell sonnet]

my fucking keys 🔫

[compact tundra]

It looks like that game kojima was making with Konami that never released cause Konami is stinky

The horror demo everyone loved where you just walk through hallways

[shell sonnet]

oh, hey, i literally just cracked 6k matches

[swift agate]

I mean, unless they have glitch nades and thermal bores

[plucky spade]

I believe unnerfed sniper would be hard meta these days

[compact tundra]

Huge

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/do-you-have-the-slightest-idea-how-little-that-narrows-it-down-batman-beyond-blight-derek-powers-gif-8836710093214428393

[compact tundra]

Idk man, I've never played kojima games

[shell sonnet]

spookies jumpscare mansion

cardbard cutout gadget that jumpscares enemies

[plucky spade]

It's a holo of a db light

[shell sonnet]

they should really turn off revive requests for the first second or so of being dead

i keep pannic pressing spec just as i die mid combat, making it use the request
would explain why people request, then coin as you revive

[serene glade]

They should add a don't rez me button so my teammates don't run out of position or leave the cash out to rez when I can just coin

[shell sonnet]

at least its gone in tdm

considering if bp should get the same treatment
since its limited life like TA

[sudden pewter]

Limited Lives but very different from TA, Regen isn’t capped and Gadgets are as they should be. Revives shouldn’t give coins, but revives should stay

[sudden pewter]

You’re missing the feet bro

[unborn turtle]

Yes, add a new rez coin that recharge, but are required to use defibrillator. The team starts with 2 and charge slowly enough so 3 mediums can defibrillator twice in most fights.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[unborn turtle]

That would encourage the 3rd medium to maybe bring idk anything else.

[shell sonnet]

could see myself agreeing with that

[sudden pewter]

At last, common ground
Wanna kiss?
👉👈

[eager wasp]

[shell sonnet]

dont think my girlfriend would like that 😔
meet me in 20 minutes behind patronelle plaza, bring your snuke and an ospuze

[shell sonnet]

||i lied
i hope someone microwaves your pillow before you go to bed||

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/437863525965365249/1399490368285835475/mauzy.carrd.co_watermark_dupecut_20fps.gif

[shell sonnet]

smh since when does this server allow doxxing

[tame aspen]

Head over to Roblox yall two

[shell sonnet]

:(

[wind wasp]

nerf bfr

[tidal tinsel]

Buff flashbangs

[unkempt moss]

Remove defib.

[lament lava]

Buff breach drill

I want to use it, but why would I use it when demat is better in almost every way?

[shell sonnet]

Costs less to run

[sudden pewter]

Because one is a spec and the other a gadget

[shell sonnet]

But yeah it could use a buff

Give it grater aoe into the direction its placed
So if you place it right on the edge of a wall, it takes the entire corner of the building off

[sudden pewter]

Could definitely use a buff, if it could break goo it would be S tier

Due to the recent explosive damage buff against goo it’s just shy of breaking it (2 or 3 shots with any weapon will finish the job)

[cursive mural]

I need a place for an idea so I figured here
The Idea: A skin for the the proximity mine that's a jar of eyeballs which follow nearby players

[compact tundra]

I think that'd be here, idk, if you have concept art then put it in #1075060148004991067 but otherwise this is the weapons and gadgets chat

[sudden pewter]

#👂┇game-feedback

[shell sonnet]

Not sure if its not a tad small
But i guess thats cool

[cursive mural]

Thank you

[compact tundra]

Evil

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/the-incredibles-meme-gassy-incredibles-mr-incredible-meme-gif-16951082123294203219

[mellow hull]

nice

[slender bear]

Hoping for new specs next season

[gleaming aspen]

hoping the next season exists

[slender bear]

The finals:
Season 0

Reverting all changes since launch

[earnest relic]

ARN-220 mythic skin when?

[unkempt moss]

Beta SA yes please

[slender bear]

Doing WHAT to betas?

[swift cradle]

snap aim is kinda busted. even if they toned down aim assist like ive been hearing. id rather go back to how AA has always been ngl lol

[serene glade]

Playing Apex for so long makes you numb to aim assist being broken if you wanna go that route. Seeing rock bottom will make you appreciate the dumpster

[earnest relic]

you spittin facts

[slow linden]

The correct answer is remove winch

[unkempt moss]

Buff BFR, give winch its original range

[outer crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[hybrid notch]

Why no new weapons :(\

[slow linden]

Bfr can be buffed when they remove winch,which I really hope they remove winch,but it's unlikely

[hardy dust]

Buff and bfr in the same sentence 💔

[slow linden]

I don't personally want it,what I want more than anything is winch to be gone

[slow linden]

Embark is too busy rebalancing all the weapons to add new ones

[placid slate]

They banning people because of the pount break thingy now

[slow linden]

This is a good problem to have,it means hopefully no specs,gadgets and weapons will be left behind anymore

[slow linden]

What?

[placid slate]

You think they'll just ban whoever was reported?

[indigo nexus]

If you winch the objective outside of the bounds where the other team can go, you are prone to being banned

[placid slate]

The thing where you put the objective in your spawn

[placid slate]

It's goo gun, winch doesn't do shit

[indigo nexus]

Ah

Well, they could certainly collect data quite easily which would make it fairly clear whether or not a player was trying to do this

[placid slate]

If player using goo gun, ban instantly

[slow linden]

Goo gun hate is so forced

[dusky field]

Nah i love getting goo stalled

[slow linden]

Kill the heavy and stop trying to steal,you dopamine addicted lobotomite

[dusky field]

Yeah bc you only goo stall when someone steals mb

[plucky spade]

awww little baby got singled out and couldn't hit the clip awww

[dusky field]

😔

[plucky spade]

what is it my tiktok friend, you didnt get the clip for today's upload?

[dusky field]

I don't even have TikTok my goat

[plucky spade]

Oh well you got the spirit at least

[outer crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[dusky field]

Deleting that shit was one of the best decisions i ever made ngl

[errant junco]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-cl-40-my-beloved-heart-gif-4492724531781840413

[hollow bay]

On skibidi what is up my fellow glovers

[indigo nexus]

“Glovers”? Um, no. Just, no.

[rare echo]

Changes I’d like to see for the KS-23 to give it uniqueness and value over the BFR.

• wall penetration (will hit both layers of a wall if there’s a double wall with a single shot)
• revert fully back to projectile only w/ high velocity but push the minimum falloff from 23m –> 28/30m
• make the reload like the new model reload. Make it so it can double shell reload even when it’s not fully empty so in combat and utility usage you aren’t playing reload simulator.

I think these would be really nice quality of life upgrades in both combat and utility without making it game breaking or a sniper rifle.

[slow linden]

Chimmy this is why no one takes us seriously our leader has stage 4 brainrot

[hollow bay]

Shushhhh

[plucky spade]

If it wasn't for gf sillyposting i'd delete that shit too

[hollow bay]

Yes king

[outer crow]

Paste it to feedback

[shell sonnet]

im not really on board with the first, but i could reasonably see the other two happening

[dusky field]

Lmao

[plucky spade]

First one would make motion sensor a good pick for heavy

[shell sonnet]

yeah, and im a bit worried about that
not because of sensor becoming good
imagine getting shot through a wall and you just cant fight back

the wall breaking might limit that a little
but getting a free hit in could be huge

it might also lead to excessive blind fire spam in hopes of hitting someone
or even more destruction

[plucky spade]

Blind fire would be damn near impossible and down to chance, motion sensor is a lost dome/rpg/c4, you get max 2 shots on trailing silhouette that may not be that accurate and then you basically announce to everyone that you're behind that wall

Also either your team is down 350hp, or with that hp on idle guns

[grim steeple]

Suggest a hard but funny bulid, doesn't matter if it's heavy or light or med

[plucky spade]

Heavy spear with antigrav, goo gun, pyro mines and dome

[placid slate]

Cheeks

[grim steeple]

Uhm can you change the spear i hate it

[placid slate]

You asked for hard shit

Nothing harder than learning new stuff

[grim steeple]

Spear is the worst thing i ever used it sucks idk how ppl use it

[placid slate]

Spin cancel

[grim steeple]

Ye you can't cancel it that's why you need timing and if your timing wrong then ur cooked

[placid slate]

You just wrong bro, learn how to use the weapon before hating

[grim steeple]

How can i learn bro , i mean i tried it before it's js so hard and the damage isn't good

It's slow asf

[placid slate]

Open comms wheel while spinning to cancel, abuse the shit out of slide, spear got a better ttk than sledge

[shell sonnet]

i imagine being basically random is part of what would make it annoying
cant say it was a skillful shot, it was just mindless spam
and the wall breaking can just be avoided by going slightly sideways as you shoot

[grim steeple]

Ima try that , if i can learn how to cancel the spin then all cool , thx anyways

[shell sonnet]

ambushing for me

i cant be the only one that thinks vaulting is too slow, right?

[stoic garden]

you are!

btw when you vault into high stuff, moving sideways (and forward) and jumping makes it very slightly faster

also to avoid being destroyed while zipping you can jump and reattach over and over to make it harder to track you

[indigo nexus]

it’s mostly about taking the correct approach to a fight, anything else is very secondary

You want to be able to get into their face before having them able to shoot at you, where your team is able to support you, and if you can’t isolate one of them to take out and you can’t get into a good multihit spot then you need to figure out a way to force them to push you around cover via the objective and beat them with burst damage

Knowing when to use spin attacks is quite important as they’re a bit of a risk, but note that it deals 210 damage quite quickly, and that becomes super quick if you initialise the spin before the active engagement starts, timed so you hit them with the ending of the first spin

The third spin is slow so you don’t want to rely on it - spin cancelling makes it less of a risk, though I don’t do it myself

[restive plover]

hot take, nullifier is the worst light gadget

[eager wasp]

hot take, goo gun needs a bit of a nerf to its player stun locking imo

[outer crow]

goo grenade too

[placid slate]

Goo nade isn't spammable though so it's not an issue

[grim steeple]

Well the reason i hate spear it's bc it's slow and don't have a good damage like other meele like sword , hammer , dagger , if you are using spear it's so hard for you to get close to the enemy without dying , and as you said the right click is too risky , like if you spin , light could do 2 dash , 2 dash is so enough to cook you cus you are spinning and if he gets out of the spinning range the opponent could easily kill you if he doesn't use meele , that's why playing with spear is so risky and hard , melee weapons isn't for heavy cus he's slow , heavy needs shot gun or far range weapons like titan or shak or akimbo, not a meele weapon

[indigo nexus]

Do you think a mag size reduction would be good or something different, like goo breaking more quickly on trapped players?

[eager wasp]

i don't wanna like, ruin everything else for the goo gunners, really all i think is just breaking faster when a player is encased in it

maybe a slight delay between shots? but maybe thats too far

[indigo nexus]

Well your spec should be a major help in closing the distance, and in my opinion lockbolt goes quite well with it.

Spear can kill people actually very effectively if you “catch them out” with it, as players often underestimate how strong it can be in its best case, so it works fine against most tiers of players I find

[indigo nexus]

Longer delay between shots might be my intuitively preferred one but it wouldn’t stop one from stalling supremely well. It would just prevent you from being able to do it to multiple people at once and make fortifying a little slower

[grim steeple]

It's meta with flame thrower, i use it it with flame thrower and it's crazy , i js use goo gun first then you keep frying with the flame thrower there is no way for him to get away if you could shoot him with goo gun while you are bear to him

[grim steeple]

Yeah if you can catch them and getting close to them then you are safe

It depends on you experience and your way to use it , you need to use it so much that you can figure a way how to get close or how to catch them if they run and more

[slow linden]

Shit take

[eager wasp]

i fear you may be very biased but its okay

[slow linden]

Goo is hard to use effectively,direct your hatred towards winch,winch is the enemy to all

[eager wasp]

not as ease of use as winch is but once you can hit your goos its kinda just as annoying as winch is

[shell sonnet]

keep them where they are (cant be shot while covered in goo) vs pull them into your whole team (theyre stunned)

[slow linden]

The only three weapons that actually combo with goo gun are MGL the worst gun,flamethrower,and sledge

Just like, get better?

[eager wasp]

yes

which if you are goo’d, you cant do too much about

[slow linden]

Be with your team and goo won't guarantee your death

[eager wasp]

teammates arent all the useful believe it or not

[slow linden]

Maybe don't push 500 people alone when one of them has goo gun

[eager wasp]

would you believe me if i said i dont

[hollow bay]

Man y'all complain so much

[slow linden]

No because you just said teammates aren't useful

[hollow bay]

Wah goo gun op wah

[shell sonnet]

mgl is probably a bad idea to combo with goo though, no?
since you give up close range self defence

[eager wasp]

i can fight with the team all i want, its not gonna help me if they do not much of any help

[eager wasp]

goo gun isnt, only the stun locking is just a little too long

[shell sonnet]

the "just have teammates" thing doesnt work here the same reason it doesnt for anything else

but imo goo gun, even when it works well with these few options, is still miles off winch with any hitscan

[hollow bay]

Wah wah?

[eager wasp]

💀

[hollow bay]

It legit does

My bad I read that wrong loooollll

[indigo nexus]

I think miles off is an overstatement due to what goo can do and winch can’t.

The survivability of a goo gun user -> their ability to stall can be unmatchable

[unkempt moss]

Never thought I'd see the day that people start asking for GooGun nerfs. Especially from a group that tries to deny my claims of it being busted all the time

[indigo nexus]

Winch beats goo at getting a quick kill in, and at moving the cashout, in any other field where either could compete I think it’s fair to say goo gun dominates

[hollow bay]

It's not busted you just suck

[shell sonnet]

thats goo gun in general though
i think this was about frustration from direct combat

[eager wasp]

just a small one that makes it not so uhh, difficult to escape its spam of goo that just locks you in until ur dead

[unkempt moss]

Do you know how hard that's going to be for embark to balance? And GooGunners will just build tech you don't like after that within the limits you try to set.

[eager wasp]

like not even a full on stop them from doing so, just a, allow the person to have a slight bit more time to do something about it rather than an immediate goo to the face again

[unkempt moss]

I hope they do fix that for you

[slow linden]

It's not impossible to escape I do it all the time,if you get goo locked into a tiny corner that is your own fault

That is bad positioning,not bad game balance

[eager wasp]

just because you go against players who don't aim the goo that well doesn't mean it doesn't happen

[unkempt moss]

No, let them have their excuses. And when embark plays the game for them and Googun finds another way to stop them they can beg for those changes too

[slow linden]

I go against really talented goo flame and goo Sledge users,I can escape just fine

[slow linden]

I will not have one of the holy relics defaced unjustly

[eager wasp]

its literally just one small change bro, you guys are acting like its the end of goo gun as we know it

[unkempt moss]

Right. That's why I'm saying I hope they do it for you

[slow linden]

Goo gun is the highest skill investment spec in the game,it's supposed to be rewarding when people use it well

[eager wasp]

okay, and if they have such skill, the change won't be such a big deal to them, it only allows a slight bit more time for the one thats being goo'd

[slow linden]

This is borderline heresy

[unkempt moss]

No. I just know that even if this guy gets what he wants he will still get crushed by the next best thing.

[slow linden]

But even a small change will make the goo gun inaccessible to new users

No one will want to try it

[unkempt moss]

That's what he wants because it hurts his agency when he gets goolocked

[eager wasp]

not that they try it that much anyways

[slow linden]

Every time winch goes unused for goo gun is a good thing

[eager wasp]

some of you are insufferable 💀

[slow linden]

I see new goo gun users from time to time,but even a small nerf will have it never tried,and it will go neglected and never be tweaked again due to lack of users

[eager wasp]

thats fine, if you just want to sit all high and mighty like go for it, i won't try and argue no more

[unkempt moss]

The new users wouldn't know what old stuff is like anyway.

It would only serve to slow down people that have been using it for a long time

[slow linden]

To fresh hands it will be nigh unusable,a small change will not affect long time users at all,the change would not prevent the cause of the nerf,and it will simply be overnerfed in turn

[unkempt moss]

Mos do you is the googun regularly or even occasionally?

I just want to know if you've tried goolocking someone with the current state of the servers.

[slow linden]

Use something extensively before you complain about it,I have been doing that for a little under a year and I have all around become both better at the game and had better takes on balance because of it

[hollow bay]

Skill issue 🤓

[unkempt moss]

If they're sitting still sure its easy, but on something moving its crazy inconsistent.

[slow linden]

Fr

[eager wasp]

don't ping me about it anymore bruh, its ggs, you guys aren't worth tryna make an argument towards

[unkempt moss]

I'll listen to what you have to say. You have to answer that question though

[hollow bay]

insert baby crying

[slow linden]

You lose by default then

[eager wasp]

okay, have fun lol

[slow linden]

Good day

[hollow bay]

Bad day

[unkempt moss]

I feel like it would be similar to me telling you how dagger should work or be nerfed.

You'd probably think I'm clueless.

Too me, as a heavy, getting two touched by a dagger sucks. I think dashing back stab is lame af and there should be player collision to stop that.

[slow linden]

If you cannot fight for your beliefs then you don't really believe in them,you have no grounds on exactly how it's unbalanced other than examples that are just wrong,you don't really care if goo gun is unbalanced or not,your ego was hurt and you want to see it gutted so rather than just improving your own gameplay and avoiding that situation you want that situation to be impossible no matter what you do

[eager wasp]

idk i don't know you

[eager wasp]

literally don't want it to be gutted, nor did i say that i didn't want that situation to not happen anymore, where are you getting that from

[unkempt moss]

I want dagger to be good because its fun. One of the funnest light weapons. I also only dabble in it.

[slow linden]

Any negative change to goo gun would gut it,it's just barely usable,also they just nerfed goos health,just shoot your way out

[shell sonnet]

someone winched the grand vault out of the map and weve been contesting the defending team at 5 coins for like 15 minutes now

[slow linden]

Goo gun has not gotten a single direct balance change since beta

It is powercrept,there are many better options,why nerf it at all?

Because you were annoyed by a self inflicted unfortunate position?

Something has to be to blame,but you'll blame the trap rather than your own two feet what stepped into it

[slow linden]

Try DB its pretty fun too,similar but different enough gameplay loop to cerb,kinda like a mix between dagger and cerb

[unkempt moss]

I understand that but theres a handful of ways and interactions that already stop goolock. Its also one of the few things that keeps a handful of heavy weapons viable. Which isnt the GooGuns fault its embark.

I can see why it would be frustrating, because it really does take away player agency and it is strong. Thats why I would challenge you to go try it and report back honestly.

[outer crow]

opps need to correct smth

[slow linden]

Saying something is broken is not enough,you have to use it and tell us why it is broken to be taken seriously,otherwise we're just talking feelings here and nobody wants to talk about that in a chat about weapon and gadget balance

[slow linden]

Nerfing things simply because they are crazy strong at the highest level of play is also lunacy most of the time,better to nerf things that are strong at all levels of play

[slow linden]

Ah yes the high risk low health class when the risk is not 100% in his favor

[unkempt moss]

@eager wasp I also want you to understand that I want everyone's favorite toy to be fun and strong.

I preach buffs for everything in the game. Even though people tell me im stupid for it.

[slow linden]

I would love if they reverted all cloak and dagger nerfs

[wheat hamlet]

How does everyone feel about defibs? would you say it is nessisary to run 100% of the time still? I didn't play S8 and came back this season to them being painfully slow to charge up.

[slow linden]

A hiding ability should not tell people exactly where you are

[outer crow]

based

[unkempt moss]

Real ones will tell you its too strong. Others will tell you they aren't strong even though its been a mandatory medium pick for 9 seasons.

[fleet imp]

On god we buffing winch claw

[shell sonnet]

you can play without it, you really should though
people still sometimes ask why you dont run it

[slow linden]

It's throwing not to run,feel like they should remove iframes and defib sickness from it and give it no cooldown but also let us shoot the hologram while it's printing you to cancel a defib

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, it needs a rework but still to be strong.

[slow linden]

In truth I just want to use it to kill people

[outer crow]

defib is worth using mostly when u are medic

[fleet imp]

On god we buffing CB and BFR

[unkempt moss]

Yes.

[outer crow]

i main medium medic and use defib all time

[slow linden]

Cerb yes,bfr no unless they remove winch

[unkempt moss]

You get a buff! You get a buff!

[fleet imp]

On god we bringing nukes back

[slow linden]

Honestly yes

[unkempt moss]

This guy gets it!

[wheat hamlet]

Yeah was thinking so

[fleet imp]

On god we bringing S3 LH1 back

[outer crow]

Couldn't ya see the bloody bombs?

[unkempt moss]

We have to. We just buffed titan and nukes

[slow linden]

I hate that when I want to do so much as throw a c4 flowerpot so I can get a kill like in the promotional material for the game it flies fucking sideways now

[fleet imp]

On god I’m making fun of you and buffing everything is a horrid idea

[slow linden]

Nothing is broken if everything is broken,nothing gets left behind

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-dance-demoman-gaming-tf2-dancing-gif-17138310

[unkempt moss]

See, this guy making my point.

He's the reason the game is so boring all the time now.

[slow linden]

Also every class should get a new spec either halfway through this season or at the start of next season

Please embark we need new specs

[shell sonnet]

if everything is broken, everything will be annoying to play against in its own way
just because you are too doesnt help it, two wrongs dont make a right

[fleet imp]

I don’t think everything 1 shotting is very fun to fight actually

[slow linden]

It is a better outcome than some options just being unusable

[shell sonnet]

and people dont want to die instantly to an overpowered weapon

if everyone could beam everyone in the blink of an eye we just go back to cod

[slow linden]

No one said everything should 1shot

[fleet imp]

He just agreed to bring nukes back bruh 🥀

Wait no you did

[slow linden]

The automatic weapons (except ak) are typically the strongest and best options in the game,all I want is for every other weapon to be brought up to that effectiveness

[shell sonnet]

perfect balance is impossible
but with weapons that are all around weaker, skill can make up for more
if a new player can pick a gun and flatten because its as op as everything else, skill hardly makes a difference

where, among purely weak weapons, playing well is rewarded

[slow linden]

I don't want red barrel nukes back,those were cancer,however the other variations were actually very counterable and fun to play around

[outer crow]

yep, they are the strongest

[fleet imp]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-morgan-freeman-true-nodding-gif-13973817878387504960

[dusky field]

Why did i become a Riot shield main

[unkempt moss]

Crazy coming from a light main. The entire game is built around your feefees being protected and not being one shot by anything except other lights.

[slow linden]

But not everything is weak ,some things are really strong,few things are pitifully shit,and the rest is just meh

My focus is on the things that are pitifully shit or overnerfed,often left behind,like shotguns,grenade launchers,and melee

[fleet imp]

I play heavy mostly now but like yeah medium and heavy 1 shotting lights is stupid lol

[unkempt moss]

I need this guys guns. He's allowed to one shot lights

I missed that dlc

[slow linden]

Light oneshots Light should we nerf bow,sniper or throwing knives,double barrel too perhaps?

[slow linden]

Fr

Heavy never one-shot Light except with pre winch sa12

Sledge overhead too but like,cmon it's a shitty hammer that was nerfed because winch exists

[fleet imp]

The whole point of light is that it’s a glass cannon I just don’t think medium which is the support class should be able to kill lights the millisecond they see them

[unkempt moss]

Combo is not a one shot and even the combos have been removed

Unless you have the 1 shot dlc

[slow linden]

They should have just removed winch,the root,the tumor,the blight that is killing heavy

[naive moon]

considering Embark devs worked on the battlefront games, id like to see heavy getting the aerial's jump pack, basically a super jump, comboing that with the rpg or charge n slam would be fun

[slow linden]

Nerfing weapons rather than just removing winch just leaves the weapons feeling hollow and awkward

For the good of all classes balance winch should be removed

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if winch was the reason the game eventually died

It is the core of this stale shitty meta,it's why all everyone does is roof camp and sit far and poke,nobody wants to be winched

[unkempt moss]

This is why the class thing you guys all preach is cancerous for the game. Every class support is strong and yet the medium has to take on the burden of being the support class.

[shell sonnet]

im not saying those shouldnt be buffed
but its about proportion
if you overbuff them, you make them annoying, practically just setting them up to be complained about and gutted again

[slow linden]

Overbuffing is the last thing I want for anything,because that just leads to a heavy nerf and that thing gets left behind

[shell sonnet]

maybe making them end up worse than before the buff

[slow linden]

Yea

Cerb was overbuffed and then gutted

[shell sonnet]

and yet you keep saying if everything is op, nothing will be?

[slow linden]

Embark seems to intentionally kill shotguns and try to push for poke and spray weapons to be meta intentionally because they're just easier to balance and Embarks balance team seemingly just can't be bothered to do it right the first or second try,instead they overbuff and immediately gut anything too complex or neglect it

More than anything embark seems to be I dunno, throwing most of the time when it comes to balancing anything that doesn't poke or spray

That's my problem,it's not that some options are just better than others,but that the worse options seem blighted,diseased,cursed, intentionally set up to fail

[slow linden]

I don't know about keep,it was stated once,but know I never intended to insinuate that everything should 1shot,that's a disingenuous way to look at what I have to say

[serene glade]

Remember when sledge could "one shot" lights with the left click combo, but light players were using their dash charges too poorly and winch is poorly designed so they just nerfed sledge. Ummmmmmm based?

[slow linden]

Right? Rather than removing the problem,which is winch,they create more problems nerfing anything that even kinda synergizes with it

[serene glade]

To see complaining about things one shotting lights when the only guns that do that are other light guns is insane to me

Oh sorry don't forget the sledge right click you have to hit on the class who's walking speed is almost as fast as your run speed

[slow linden]

Hot take but winch is as infuriating and meta defining as something like recon sense,and what did they do to recon sense? They took it out justifyably,but embark fails us and fails us over and over,season after season they just won't remove winch

If a biased heavy main is telling you to remove winch,you should probably fucking listen

[serene glade]

I'm down to make the game more nuanced and have specs come with different passives. Like lean into winch being more aggressive and have it be strong. But give heavy using the spec less HP for example. Would be too hard for embark to manage with the current state of making sure no weapon breaks a 149 threshold, but that's just one way to go about attacking the winch problem without removing it. Because don't get me the wrong the idea of winch is cool, just in this game it's not executed well at all

[slow linden]

Decent idea,would mesh have more hp as a dedicated tank? Would a goo heavy have either fire resistance or weakness to fire?

What are your plans for passives for all specs

[sand monolith]

Shotguns have never been bad stats wise aside from ks-23 and 99 damage model

But shotguns on L and M have just always been redundant because of winch claw dominating the meta

[serene glade]

Yeah you would do something like that, or just think up some passive perks that would go along with fitting the role you would want the specs to fill. I haven't put too much thought into it to give you that rn, but something would be like heal beam medium leaning into support role and having say faster normal revive passive, improved HP on aps turret or something. Then you don't have to keep pretending the classes are locked to roles and have the specs be the things being built around

[sand monolith]

Which is why both model and Cerberus are seeing more use and success this season

[unkempt moss]

Yeah but hes green and invoked nukes meaning hes been around a long time bro. Trust him.

[serene glade]

🧎‍♂️‍➡️

[slow linden]

Cerb came out dogshit was fine after the first buff,then was overbuffed and gutted,lights shotguns are fine and balanced,there isn't a bad or unused weapon on light at all

[sand monolith]

Cerberus isn’t gutted and it’s weaker than it was on launch

[slow linden]

Then it was gutted

[sand monolith]

There’s just no point in using cqc medium with a winch heavy unless it’s buffed too far

If you think current Cerberus is gutted you aren’t playing the weapon correctly

[serene glade]

Winch claw fucked my wife, please buff my class and guns I use please!!!!

[slow linden]

Because it was shit on launch,I use it to this day I get kills with it,but three shots to kill a light is excessive,that thing is weird now,because for some reason it three shots every class most of the time

[sand monolith]

It’s not 3 shots to kill a light 😭

You can kill a heavy in 3 shots with a quick melee and a light in 1 shot with a quick melee

[slow linden]

It's two if I impale them with it but that's kinda hard to do I would rather just shoot them than let a light get anywhere near me

[sand monolith]

Okay then you aren’t playing the weapon right

Cerberus is a counter dive weapon that’s extremely defensive

It gets value from letting people get close to you

[slow linden]

I'm playing the weapon just fine,it's a support weapon,you protect your heavy,get assists,finish fleeing players,and occasionally flank

Cerb is best played not far from a teammate

[sand monolith]

It’s mainly an anti dive weapon and you just said you don’t want lights to get close to you

[slow linden]

When I speak of flanking I mean specifically heavies in particular

[sand monolith]

You don’t flank anyone on Cerberus ever lol

Unless your entire team is flanking

Cerberus is genuinely as strong as it can possibly be (damage wise) without being overpowered

But it’s an anti dive weapon in a non dive meta

[dusky field]

Cerberus seems fine to me ngl

[sand monolith]

It’s not surprising that a weapon made to counter 1 play style isn’t doing great when that play style isn’t in the meta

[unkempt moss]

I got one shot! And by one shot I mean i got blown up by being out of position and it hurt my feefees bro

[slow linden]

It's undertuned,sure it's usable but you're not beating most other shotguns or smgs with it unless they don't see you and you liquefy the back of their heads

[fleet imp]

It’s just a good weapon lol

[unkempt moss]

Worst thing about cerb is that its not on my heavy class

[slow linden]

Good for an organized and communicative team? Maybe? Good for solos? Not really,Good with one teammate and a random? Fuck no

[slow linden]

Agreed,it would be far more at home on heavy

[unkempt moss]

Once they apply GooKing's Super Official Fun Balance Patch it'll fix the game. Trust.

[slow linden]

Isn't that just malware that kicks you when you pick light?

[sand monolith]

This is a good thing btw

Cqc medium should never be a good solo playstyle

[unkempt moss]

No. I like lights and want to keep shooting them.

And my patch buffs lights too. I want everyone to be buff™

[slow linden]

Tell that to p90

[sand monolith]

P90 is good in like gold if you’re solo queue sure

[slow linden]

P90 is better than model ever was

[sand monolith]

lol

There is no saving some people

[fleet imp]

DAWG 💀

[slow linden]

They should have never buffed its range,they're just going to gut it in a few seasons and no one wants that

[sand monolith]

P90 literally isn’t meta rn btw

[sonic zephyr]

one thing i dont like about the model is the tight spread. it essentially requires Repeater levels of skill but without the range or hs-multiplier

[slow linden]

That's because we're in a poke meta

[serene glade]

He used the argument if you arent as high a rank as him so you actually just lose. He knows better about the game because he can hit diamond. Sit your goyim ass down and listen

[slow linden]

Ah the old diamond reject argument I'm familiar with it

[sand monolith]

We were in a poke meta when model was meta btw. It was just so overtuned that it took us out of it. We had 52 damage pike and 49 damage lh1 with more rpm when model was meta

[slow linden]

I'm against a poke meta btw

[unkempt moss]

So buffing weapons shifts meta. Who would have guessed

[sand monolith]

I think most people are but I was making the point that model was SO strong that it pulled us out of a poke meta that’s stronger than the one we have rn

Unlike p90 which isn’t seen above gold

[slow linden]

Stalest nothing burger point and click win no thinking,no moving only dopamine slop,that is poke meta

[slow linden]

For the vast majority of players,ie me,the casual player,the p90 is more frustrating than model was at its peak,yes old model had to go,but you know what's more annoying? Running revolver or any burst damage weapon and getting shredded before you can get the second or third shot off despite teammates also shooting that guy,that guy has decided he wants to kill you specifically and unless you have mesh there's nothing that you can do about it,sure he might die to your teammates but the p90 has so little recoil and spread that you'll be dead anywhere within its line of sight regardless of shooting back

Also hot take giving medium a weapon that is a few tiny tweaks away from being an m11 is just as bad of an idea as giving heavy the titan was

[unkempt moss]

Heavy deserved the titan after nerfing the deagle range.

[slow linden]

True,but the deagles damage nerf was worse I would have been fine with the range nerf

As soon as they turned the deagles into a fucking pike reskin I just stopped using them

[unkempt moss]

Deagles should have always been a hip fire demon. Making dual .50s good at range was dumb af. Give me good hipfire and good accuracy while sliding with the .50s and you can take the range

[slow linden]

Give that shit shotgun falloff,give us back the damage

[sand monolith]

The p90 kills very very slightly faster than the medium rifles and has much less range. It’s not even close to the m11

[unkempt moss]

Hipfire and damage. Let me John Woo with them.

[slow linden]

It has enough bullets to guarantee the death of a heavy from 30 meters,and that was before the range buff,it might have been fine before,but giving it more range is definitely where they fucked up,now it's going to get the mp5 treatment and be gutted

Which gutting it isn't what I want

[sand monolith]

It doesn’t have more range

If you’re referring to the appoh patch notes video that wasn’t a real patch note

[slow linden]

They literally just reduced it's falloff I'm beaming from twice the range I used to with it

[slow linden]

"Nuh uh"

[sand monolith]

??? It literally wasn’t in the patch

You are placeboing yourself lol

[slow linden]

I do not watch videos,I use weapons fairly regularly and I listen to rumors,once or twice a season I look at patch notes and that is all that I need to do

[sand monolith]

And guess what wasn’t in the patch notes

[dusky field]

GGs

[slow linden]

Point is the p90 just has too much range

[sand monolith]

Bro

[dusky field]

This has to be a rage bait master

[slow linden]

They tweak shit by mistake without telling us all the time do you know what they accidentally did to barricades?

[quartz kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/sword-sea-of-thieves-behn-sea-of-thieves-meme-arena-gif-24201511

[slow linden]

That's not in the patch notes because it's not intentional

[sand monolith]

Yeah idk I can’t argue against someone who just makes things up and presents them as fact. Good luck against the p90, it kills about .2s faster than the medium rifles at max 👍

[indigo nexus]

I've heard people claim they have checked that it wasn't changed but I didn't confirm myself.

[slow linden]

2 seconds faster is a lot faster in this game you should know that

[sand monolith]

.2

[slow linden]

Even that,Something that kills even a little faster than rifles shouldn't be given rifle range

[sand monolith]

That’s why it doesn’t have rifle range 👍

I diagnose you with using the p90 in point break where it is very strong and assuming it is op

[indigo ether]

hello i just came can someone summarize the discorse

[slow linden]

It does,i get better use out of it than famas and fcar and those guns are pretty good

[slow linden]

I think the p90 has too much range,5v5 disagrees

[sand monolith]

He thinks p90 is stronger than model ever was and thinks it got a secret range buff (it didn’t) and refuses to look at any data and just goes off of his own thoughts

[slow linden]

More annoying than stronger

[indigo ether]

im p sure it did get a range buff tho
is he talmbout one thats extra from the patchnotes?

[sand monolith]

It didn’t, that was in the preview but not final release

[slow linden]

He denies it was ever buffed

[sand monolith]

Rumor from appoh video

[indigo ether]

too much range is pretty different than better than model

[indigo ether]

erm it was zuki actually

[slow linden]

It's a different argument,I made that point and moved on,unfortunately the leech of a man has latched onto it despite that discussion ending

[unkempt moss]

This guy must be protected.

[sand monolith]

“I made that point and realized it was fucking stupid so I stopped talking about it”

[unkempt moss]

@serene glade alley cats cuh

[indigo ether]

i too am in this conversation

[slow linden]

He also made the corny "erm its not viable past gold 🤓" diamond reject shitter argument,like gang we get it being diamond is your only personality trait,you're not good enough for ruby like God kill me please

[sand monolith]

No I just don’t care about what’s viable in dogshit casual games

[serene glade]

lets be honest, this game is dogshit all the time

[sand monolith]

Ranked is pretty good rn for the second time ever

[indigo ether]

anything is good when ur playing against casuals lol

[slow linden]

Lmao ranked truly is all he has,he can't appreciate the whole game,that's so sad

[sand monolith]

Aside from v9s and repeater

[indigo ether]

1nd time ever was when pike was 55dmg oooahhh hyeahhh

[serene glade]

is embark still in charge of balance and servers? because that cant be true if they are

[gleaming aspen]

i thinl they poured all their time and money into new customization and map lol

[slow linden]

Tbh yeah,riot shield stomps most quick cash games but is actually really hard to use in tournament and ranked

[gleaming aspen]

the humble fireball

[slow linden]

V9s is fine,repeater is kinda annoying but it's also fine,what's your beef with them?

[indigo ether]

imo v9s is fine lol

[sand monolith]

v9s is so fucking annoying dude it shreds light from 5 million miles away now

[indigo ether]

dunno abt the range but i hear it does 23 dmg at max

[gleaming aspen]

is v9s meta or sumn i keep hearing an uproar for it

[unkempt moss]

I love light on light violence

[sand monolith]

its better than m11 was before they nerfed its range

[slow linden]

Good

[indigo ether]

it is but it used to be a niche good weapon like the repeater and now htey bufed it its gonna get nerfed into the ground

[gleaming aspen]

throwing knives fr

[sand monolith]

actually its not good for a weapon to dominate in both cqc and range!

[gleaming aspen]

oh rip im just shit then ty ty

[serene glade]

93r is problematic, so we are gonna nerf it (still usable btw) and then just make the v9s the problematic weapon. the company im supposed to believe has a "good" ranked state rn

[slow linden]

False but also side note the m11 is the most balanced gun in the game

[sand monolith]

do you read

[slow linden]

Tell that to p90

[indigo ether]

lh1 lol lol lol

[slow linden]

I said SIDE note do YOU read?

[indigo ether]

ooohhh he got ur ass there

[unkempt moss]

Good only means when its what I like.

[gleaming aspen]

yall remember when the chinals wasnt the chinals but it was the finals

[indigo ether]

yeah

[unkempt moss]

Explain the chinals thing to me. I only ever see it in hivemind chat

[serene glade]

ill kneel for china if we bring back weekly balance patches

[indigo ether]

i miss the 2 burst anything but the 2 burst

[gleaming aspen]

china and finals combined

[unkempt moss]

Because of the map?

[gleaming aspen]

because of the china themed season

[indigo ether]

that and the finals china version release

the finals lwk not that niche anymore

@sand monolith are yous till here

[unkempt moss]

And why do we hate the chinals? I need to be told what to think.

[gleaming aspen]

its still niche theres no other games like this

[crystal edge]

Can somebody tell me how this was NOT backstab?

[sinful python]

Bronze

[slow linden]

93r is pretty annoying yeah,I don't think they should nerf the damage though just give it more falloff,same with the v9s if people are gonna bitch about it but for the love of God stop touching the damage of guns when the problem is often the exessive range that they have

[gleaming aspen]

idk nobody hates it they just hate the balance patches and tje servers tweaking out

[unkempt moss]

Oh.

[indigo ether]

you cannot be serious lol please go touch grass

[gleaming aspen]

prolly the cause it wasnt within 150 degrees i think they nerfed the 180 back stab

[unkempt moss]

God this Auph guy is based

[indigo ether]

cause ur using dagger so you get a perma 100% no reg buff

[indigo ether]

ikr hes such a handsome guy

[slow linden]

Bet he could beat you in a 1v1

[crystal edge]

Bro the weapon is already underpowered and the nerf it?

[gleaming aspen]

the nerf was like a long time ago its been like this for a while

[slow linden]

Lil boy went to bed

[crystal edge]

Bro but in season 8 i was beast dropping 30 kills in wt and now i cant even kill s9 so weird

[indigo ether]

ts guy hardstuck plat check his msg history

[gleaming aspen]

oh idk then ive heard servers are worse now tho i dont feel a difference myself tho

[crystal edge]

I feel every game i have disadvantage

[indigo ether]

okay i go eep now goonnight

[unkempt moss]

He just doesnt miss. Unreal

[gleaming aspen]

ur playing a melee weapon on top of running light lmfao so kinda

[slow linden]

The servers are a big determining factor as to why some of the weapons are just kinda shit,inconsistencies make and often break most gimmicky or unorthodox options

[crystal edge]

But this was not back in s8

[gleaming aspen]

riot shield and sword hitbox being random is server side also ive heard

[slow linden]

A pity

[gleaming aspen]

light still sucks this season

[slow linden]

The game would be far easier to balance if it were on good servers

[slow linden]

The meta is triple medium,or medium heavy medium rn

[unkempt moss]

Because heavy is the class for cool kids. Why would you play light?

[slow linden]

You can get away with triple heavy but it's really hard

[gleaming aspen]

cause they nerfed sledge hammer

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, heavy players adapt.

[slow linden]

Winch does nothing but take,I pray that we one day be rid of it

[gleaming aspen]

i ran sledge charhe and slam

[slow linden]

Winch is the sole thing that weapons for heavy are balanced around now,that's bad

[unkempt moss]

GooGun, my son. GooHammer

[slow linden]

A good favorite,but know Winch caused the nerf

[gleaming aspen]

oh i still run goo gun with gravity cube shinanigans lol i love gravity cube

[gleaming aspen]

fucking winch vaused sledge nerf 😭

[unkempt moss]

Learn GooHammer and give up on the light class.

[indigo ether]

im back, meta is still very well lmh

[crystal edge]

Can i somehow make embark buff dagger?

[slow linden]

Just remove winch,it's a tumor that hollows out every weapon that it has a little synergy with,or has that weapon reworked to depend on it

Remove winch,give us back blunderbuss sa12,give us back original sledge

[unkempt moss]

Wise Wizard do you see how lights beg for buffs and nerfs? With heavies we understand that there will be ups and downs.

When you ask goo for strength, dont be surprised when it hands you weights.

Embark cannot nerf our spirit as heavy players.

[slow linden]

I dunno,I kinda stomp lmh it's mmm that I have most trouble with

If you chase them you'll never win against them

[indigo ether]

lol i thought we were talking comp meta

[gleaming aspen]

no they only nerf melee weapons (the fucking duel swords buff was a massive surprise to me)

[indigo ether]

light is def hr=arder to play at the noncomp scene so yeah mmh or hhm are gonna be surging

[slow linden]

I'm talking all round meta,usually if it's good in comp it's probably good in other gamemodes too

[gleaming aspen]

give winch nullifier treatment

[gleaming aspen]

😭 lmfao

[slow linden]

Wouldn't fit anymore,just remove it

It already doesn't fit as is

It is a parasite that does nothing but devour,it's nothing more than a disease that should be cut out at the root

[slow linden]

Did someone breathe? Oh man I guess we gotta nerf dagger and cloak randomly

[gleaming aspen]

to balance it out we gonna buff rpg

[slow linden]

To beta stats

[unkempt moss]

Yes please.

[slow linden]

An evil part of me misses beta rpg

I will not listen to it

[unkempt moss]

Hitting a light for 150 direct at long range felt so good.

Seeing the tears in chat over it. What an era

[slow linden]

It needed the damage nerf,the spread was excessive though

[unkempt moss]

I think the RPG being changed is what sparked the lights "cry over improve" meta in the discord.

[slow linden]

Can't get rid of the spread now,it does too much damage for that

[orchid bane]

Bro, buff dagger

[gleaming aspen]

yall remember the flying goo tech

[unkempt moss]

Yes. It should have never been taken out.

[slow linden]

They removed it because fuck fun ig

[unkempt moss]

It took all kinds of great tech with it.

[gleaming aspen]

it was taken out cause people kept abusing it in ranked to crash servers if they were losing 😭

[slow linden]

Anyone remember the goo tech that let you launch buildings and cashout into orbit?

[frigid dagger]

what is best gun for medium class?

[serene glade]

Whatever you want it to be

[frigid dagger]

im new btw, 3 hrs on the game lol

[gleaming aspen]

is that the one where you throw goonade into cashout and spam mantle while your in the gloo?

[serene glade]

Just use whatever you want, the game is not that deep

[frigid dagger]

alr fairs

[slow linden]

Repeater probably but honestly mediums the best class in the game just use what you like

[unkempt moss]

Which one do you think is really cool?

[gleaming aspen]

repeater but models pretty fun

[crystal edge]

Nah i quit playing this game this season is ass and even the dagger feels off ima play Minecraft or smth that dont make me to break controler

[frigid dagger]

ok ill try repeater

[frigid dagger]

i was using the FCAR just now

[gleaming aspen]

fcar is also good

[unkempt moss]

That one is just fine.

[frigid dagger]

yeah at least the game's balanced

[slow linden]

Make a troll loadout,go out of your way to grief a team that you do not particularly like,lose knowing that they did not qualify and you will have fun

[unkempt moss]

The real answer is to play heavy