💣┇weapons-gadgets

[slow linden]

Mgl suffers from this too,damage stages were a mistake and were an indirect nerf to mgl,but the neglect is what truly killed mgl

[kindred arrow]

really why does the ARN have literally no recoil

[stoic garden]

i will never forgive embark for gradual damage falloff

[indigo nexus]

to fit with its longer range identity

[stoic garden]

because it's built to fuck over anyone with low sens and a small mousepad with its vertical recoil

[kindred arrow]

why is this not a benefit enjoyed by medium's longer range identity weapons

[wicked grove]

I know, that’s why I use it. It’s satisfying to manage value out of it to a point people feel a need to preach it being nerfed more (then again people want everything nerfed)

[slow linden]

It's bothersome but it's balanced because it's on light,just look in their direction and they die

[kindred arrow]

they couldnt make it a LITTLE horizontal?

[indigo nexus]

as in, repeater? I don't think it really applies there

[stoic garden]

before i changed my sens i ran out of space on my mousepad like at the 20th bullet lmao

[indigo nexus]

or pike I guess, in which case fair enough, it does have quite awkward recoil

[stoic garden]

repeater recoil is ? shaped lol

[slow linden]

Horizontal recoil is honestly bad game design for an AR,and I don't even like using ars a whole lot

[stoic garden]

actually kinda easy to learn tho ngl

[wicked grove]

We were promised an MGL rework and never got one, and I have doubts we will get one. Otherwise it’s a fun gun, but not necessarily a good one, just too inconsistent to get value out of, and maps and modifiers do matter a lot

[kindred arrow]

i mean a curve, not random bounce

[slow linden]

Like angled???

[kindred arrow]

yes

[slow linden]

That'd be fine

[kindred arrow]

like, you know, the fcar

[stoic garden]

p90 got that 90 degree recoil angles

it's so goofy yet easy to use

[kindred arrow]

i momentarily forgot the famas exists
i would like to go back to this time

[plucky spade]

Love how akm is supposed to be forgotten yet it was still used in the majors

[stoic garden]

akm has goated skins, I'd use it for those

[kindred arrow]

famas is such a stupid, stupid weapon

[indigo nexus]

Yeah AKM is fine, doesn’t need to be the most meta AR but its profile is solid

[slow linden]

Smgs should have random recoil,p90s main issue is that it's recoil is too easy to manage,an smg should be primarily usable from close range

The m11 has horrendous recoil and thus it is balanced

[kindred arrow]

the m11 is attached to a class who has like five separate utilites dedicated to getting it into barrel-stuffing range

this is like saying the model should have the same spread as the double barrel, if you did this it would be unusable on medium

[slow linden]

The MP5 feels more like an ar or like a carbine and I'm oddly fine with it having a little bit of range,but it's a neglected and difficult to balance weapon,I really don't know how to make the mp5 balanced,it's been nerfed and reworked too many times I don't think it even fits the game anymore and it's kinda shit,the most recent nerf was needed sure people were terrorists with that thing,but it's just so out of place now

[stoic garden]

damage: 17
rpm: 820
ammo: 30
fixed xp

and slight range nerf if we really care ☺️

[slow linden]

Everything that they nerf they neglect or break beyond unusability,and it's not a great feeling when 40% of the weapons are dogshit or awkward to use

[stoic garden]

I'm going to be hit by a nuclear bomb of a reply

nvm ig

[slow linden]

Nah I just was half paying attention,was talking to someone, my bad

[placid slate]

I don't know, i think that p90 meds should be fed to a woodchipper

[slow linden]

Too quick

Burned at the stake,robbed of all things but their nervous systems and kept alive in tanks for all eternity,their only sensation sight

[placid slate]

Each p90 magazine contains the tormented souls of 7 children

[slow linden]

The fate that whoever made winchclaw should share

[slow linden]

And the blood of 30 euthanized puppies

[stoic garden]

nah, hearing, forced to eternally hear cloaked lights sprinting

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. I'm not sure about this

[placid slate]

They'll go deaf after 3 minutes

[slow linden]

On the topic of cloak,make it silent,no other changes or buffs

[stoic garden]

well i did think the rpm was gonna be a lil low lol

do you think 835 would work?

[indigo nexus]

I don't think it's a good idea for cloak to be good at sneaking up on people in the open

[indigo nexus]

depends on what you're going for, I'd say probably. I don't mind the weapon leaning into a low mag size speciality

[stoic garden]

yea i think having low mag size should be one of its fundamental weaknesses

[slow linden]

You don't think a sneaking spec that limits the mobility of a sheet of tissue paper that needs to be fast or undetected to live should be good at Sneaking? Cloak literally tells you where they are 😭

[indigo nexus]

Correct. Cloak didn't need that to be meta in the past, it doesn't need it now, it makes the spec much more frustrating for the other players.

A tenacious light being always able to sneak up on you to get great damage would not be fun to play against as you'd need to build your loadout around countering it

[slow linden]

Skill issue tbh use your eyes and you could've seen them,there's a reason spy is the worst class in tf2 when his cloak is far better than lights ever have been

[indigo nexus]

You cannot be always looking in every direction at once while being in a fight. Surely you cannot be serious.

TF2 spy invis is like, entirely different to the finals invis

[slow linden]

But you can hear the footsteps behind you and shoot that direction

[placid slate]

I think we should overall analyse why vanish bomb works, but cloaking device does not

[stoic garden]

cuz u got dash

[indigo nexus]

crouching footsteps are almost inaudible even if all was quiet and still, and also I don't think footsteps play while cloaked to begin with

[placid slate]

It basically boils down to cloak not having enough survivability to compensate for being a spec

[slow linden]

Crouching is SLOW,you would notice the flicker,or they would run out of cloak before they had the chance to even breathe your air

[indigo nexus]

it does work, it appeared right up to the end of the majors after all. But it is flawed. Partially because at closer ranges you can see a cloaked player even if they're stationary, and also if your skin has any moving parts on it they'll be extra visible

[indigo nexus]

If the fight took place on a flat infinite plane, absolutely.

[placid slate]

Not even moving parts, static shit does it too

[stoic garden]

just become bald and wear the default set what's the problem

[slow linden]

No,if the fight took place in an apartment and the light wasn't standing completely still you would think that wall looked a little funny and atomize the light

[indigo nexus]

Well you could spend the whole fight sniffing walls for invis lights, but this is not exactly practical when you're actively being pushed.

[stoic garden]

then i found out the chassis makes some rather audible footsteps even when cloaked

[placid slate]

Can confirm

[slow linden]

You know spy checking is a skill that tf2 players learn and practice regularly and still manage to win fights while being flanked by a character that one taps them to the back and can disable turrets and other equipment,and disguise themselves as one of their teammates AND go COMPLETELY invisible with no visual indication other than if they get too close or being lit on fire

[slow linden]

I do it all the time,my headset is so cheap I don't even have directional or particularly loud audio,half the time I don't even hear the buzzing of the cloak,notice a flicker and annihilate the light

[bleak osprey]

asking to add kriss vector .. day 3

[slow linden]

Nah,Give us an MP40 and put it on heavy

[indigo nexus]

I do not think that the gameplay loop, map design or cloak abilities are similar enough for it to make sense to try and draw a comparison like this.

[slow linden]

The ttk and counterplay honestly feels really similar

The only huge difference is there's no map destruction and no cashout

[indigo nexus]

if you want to find a cloaked player during an ongoing team fight and they weren't moving, you would need to use a gadget which would reveal them. Which is okay, but if you required this to not get countered by the spec it would be a problem

right now the loud audio cue prevents cloaked players from moving into your vicinity without you being aware of them, which counteracts that problem

cloak being good at sneaking is extra problematic with how they can instantly open fire.

[slow linden]

A cloaked light that isn't moving is not a threat,the moment they act they will die

[indigo nexus]

Well, this is just not in line with the reality of the game. You are not supposed to move with cloak much of the time, its biggest strength is that it allows you to hide in plain sight and wait until the opportune moment to magdump into an enemy

[slow linden]

The only advantage is potential setup for a cheap clean up,but the enemy would catch on that an enemy is missing so it would only work once

[indigo nexus]

they need to know where you are, not just that you exist, for that to make any sense

again, cloak used to be meta, this just isn't the reality of the gameplay

[bleak osprey]

no for heavy best smg will be like stern or gl36 or scorpion

[slow linden]

Spraying into the emptiness of a room alone is enough to tell you where a cloaked light is

[indigo nexus]

Spending all your ammo to maybe find a cloaked player who might be in the room? That's not very practical. If you know roughly where they are then sure, but that would often not be the case in your scenario. You are leaving yourself open to attack in doing so, both from a cloaked player and to the rest of their team

[slow linden]

a czscorpion with the stock folded would feel amazing on heavy

[bleak osprey]

now we are talking

and for make it fair it will only support iron sight

[slow linden]

Your teammate still has ammo,use your words,cooperate with your teammates,you're nothing without them whether they're better or worse than you

[bleak osprey]

to make it a better pick over shak it will have like a extended mag

[indigo nexus]

This doesn't make it efficient.

You would be putting yourself in a losing position by constantly doing this

[slow linden]

Some things CAN'T be efficient,efficiency is most things,but it cannot be everything

[indigo nexus]

Efficiency can be used to define the entire scope of who wins a fight. And that is how I am using it.

[slow linden]

Not everything needs to be efficient,it needs to be doable,usable,that alone is enough

[indigo nexus]

Jumping off the edge of the map is doable. You don't do it because it's not efficient, in general.

[wicked grove]

Would be a nice change for the invisibility to be buffed with increased transparency for less easy spot, and perhaps a mobility increase while cloaked and a few seconds after in cloaking, however it could be changed to have a proper cd over a charge bar to somewhat “balance” that, because it’s pretty bad in the spot it’s currently in, it’s really just become a crutch

[slow linden]

Minigun is not efficient at all by design and yet if you just cooperate with your teammates a little it's nearly unbeatable,and it should be that way

[indigo nexus]

Well then it's efficient. Not that the second point is really true, but if it was then it would be a very efficient choice

[slow linden]

So cloak checking a room or hallway and your teammate spraying down the injured light is also efficient

[indigo nexus]

Nope, because it's a bad strategy.

[slow linden]

Also just placing mines on flanks and doorways is enough to keep cloak away

[indigo nexus]

It tells the enemies exactly where you are, leaves you vulnerable to attack, much less able to interpret audio cues, for a small chance of successfully harming an enemy strategy

[bleak osprey]

what happned to czscorpion and vector

[indigo nexus]

sure, that helps, but didn't stop invis from being the meta pick

[slow linden]

Would you like to know what else tells the enemies exactly where you are but as of its fundamental nature shouldn't? Cloak

[slow linden]

Ruby uses cloak for five minutes and suddenly it's meta,no

[indigo nexus]

Nah, it totally should, if you are moving. Because it has been demonstrated that it is still good in spite of this, and is much more fair to play against due to the restrictions it puts in place for what they can do to you

[indigo nexus]

Er, not sure what you mean by that. For several months it was, and it's still okay.

[slow linden]

It still screams when you're standing still

[slow linden]

It's garbage

[indigo nexus]

It does not. Unless you're within about a meter and all is calm you won't hear it.

[indigo nexus]

Nope, you're exaggerating greatly there. It's off-meta but has its uses even in that context

[slow linden]

Dash meta is more stale and uninteresting than cloak meta,I would prefer that your words had any validity and still do,but they just don't,cloak is bad,it was okay,and then they gutted it

[indigo nexus]

mm, then it wouldn't be appearing in the finals of the grand major

it cannot be that bad

indeed almost nothing in the game is.

[slow linden]

Did it win?

[indigo nexus]

Cannot remember! I think so in at least some cases, but I think it wasn't in the absolute final game of TGM

[slow linden]

I didn't watch the majors,but did it win? Was it enough? Did the cloak user top frag amongst it's team?

[indigo nexus]

anyway, it was very good teams switching to it because it seemed like the play for a certain situation

[slow linden]

Then it wasn't enough,a God can do work even with broken tools

[indigo nexus]

I don't think they showed kill leaderboards or if they did I wasn't paying attention to it, not that it really matters

[indigo nexus]

It was the best teams playing against other best teams...

if something genuinely sucked they would not get away with it

[slow linden]

And the best teams could get that far with anything,I heard of a dual blades user in the majors at one point as well

[indigo nexus]

there is no scenario where meta matters more than that

[indigo nexus]

in the open qualifiers I think? Definitely not in the late stages

[slow linden]

And dual blades are SHIT

[indigo nexus]

the most surprising thing that happened near the end was one heavy running the KS-23, the crowd cheered very enthusiastically to see it but it didn't stick around for more than one round :p

[slow linden]

And yet that heavy performed admirably,it's broken tools just not enough to create it's masterpiece

[indigo nexus]

er, sure, but the use of invis was a genuine tactic, at least it was interpreted as such by those watching. Guess we technically don't know, but there was a fair bit of money on the line

[slow linden]

Good for some work,but not much more

And they would've done even better with dash or even grapple

Cloak just isn't enough,it has no place at the pinnacle,but I want everything to have it's place and chance at the top,nothing left behind,nothing smited beyond usefulness because it dared to be a little unbalanced,true balance

Winch is the exception,it is the chained tool of those who make themselves slaves,winch is death,winch is hate.

[indigo nexus]

well they chose to switch from dash and I trust their judgement a lot more than yours. Grapple I didn't see at all

[indigo nexus]

Everything having a good chance at the top would completely nuke the balance unfortunately

[slow linden]

I heard of exactly one grapple user but I don't think they did very well

[slow linden]

This is an inherently biased and cancerous view on balance,true balance IS balance,anything else is just not good enough

[indigo nexus]

Biased towards what?

A game with truly perfect balance would be a lot worse than THE FINALS, because it could only have a handful of weapons.

[slow linden]

You hate what was once good,you want it to never be good again,you would rather they rot in complete entropy and neglect

[indigo nexus]

What do I hate, sorry?

[slow linden]

Team fortress two is perfectly balanced and yet it's loved and played by so many despite not seeing notable content updates in like 9 years

[indigo nexus]

False, True, True

[slow linden]

Clearly cloak for one,lying to yourself to try and keep it weak and manageable with even the most rotted attention span,as for anything else I'm not quite sure

[indigo nexus]

Well I can claim with certainty that this is wrong. I have nothing against cloak.

[slow linden]

What is unbalanced about tf2

[indigo nexus]

I don't know, not a tf2 player. But it's impossible to have a significant variety of weapons and keep a perfect balance.

[slow linden]

And yet they do,even the weaker options are usable at the top level of play

[indigo nexus]

can look online and find a ton of people with various opinions

also note that TF2 has a major advantage in terms of a relatively lesser degree of loadout flexibility

[slow linden]

Some people want tf2's 2 weakest classes nerfed that doesn't make their opinion valuable or relevant

[indigo nexus]

2 weakest classes? Sounds like you're admitting right there that it's not perfectly balanced :p

anyway, their opinions on its balance are no less valuable than yours to me.

[slow linden]

No,they're balanced,weakest is by no means weak,they're the most difficult and yet for some weak few frustrating, one of the few keeps peeking the sniper instead of flanking,and the other never learning spy checking

[indigo nexus]

"weakest is by no means weak" is a funny phrase. A class being more "difficult" than another implies an imperfect balance already.

[slow linden]

I disregard all notions that any class in both the finals and tf2 is fundamentally "weak"

[indigo nexus]

The main point is that various weapon traits have impacts which do skew the skill distribution of their effectiveness. You can counteract this but your options are limited, you are super restricted in weapon design if you wish to maintain this. Doesn't matter what game we're talking about.

[slow linden]

22lr is one of the weakest rounds but it can still kill someone,on that scale of balance nothing is weak,but there's certainly a clear weakest option

Meta persists in every balance system,it cannot be eliminated

[indigo nexus]

and there we go, that's the point I made earlier

a local optimum of balance for player satisfaction may still have a fairly notable meta

[slow linden]

I never aimed to eliminate meta,only to make everything usable and enjoyable

[slow linden]

And there is nothing wrong with that

[indigo nexus]

I think everything is usable and enjoyable currently except for maybe dagger due to its 'bugs'. Arguably spear too until they fix its hit registration

[slow linden]

That is my problem,the things left behind,they will never fix dagger,they will never fix spear,melee is to be left behind,and you cannot in good faith call the mgl perfectly fine and usable

Mgls strongest playstyle is simultaneously where it can be most easily crushed

[indigo nexus]

Dagger is pretty much an impossible fix but spear isn't, they will surely do so eventually

MGL is fun and usable. I use it, it's fun, I do pretty decently with it.

[slow linden]

Decent isn't good enough

[indigo nexus]

what MGL isn't, is reliable, because it has counters

[indigo nexus]

I'm not a ruby player or something; I don't dominate all of my matches regardless of weapon choice.

[slow linden]

Those counters being walking away or around the grenades,or running towards them and getting in their face

In which case the weapon is literally useless close range

[indigo nexus]

hah, walking away not really, that's just basic evasion. But getting very close is somewhat effective. APS turret and winch claw are the most threatening things

[indigo nexus]

It's why I run charge and slam + pyro mines.

[slow linden]

Of course winch claw is a threat,winch claw counters everything

[indigo nexus]

No, many playstyles it's only modestly useful against at the level I play at

[slow linden]

Winch is meta,that means it's the best,winch should never have been added,it will always be a problem no matter how they nerf or tweak it,it is a cancer that must be cut out at the root and replaced with an entirely new spec

Winch has single handedly killed quite a few of heavys weapons,it has probably blocked a few buffs and most certainly caused nerfs to certain weapons,but barely being touched itself

[indigo nexus]

1. true
2. not inherently but it may be correct regardless
3. subjective
4. disagreed

they're seemingly reducing its damage now though, which gives them a little more wiggle room in the balance

[slow linden]

It could do 0 damage and it would still be fundamentally broken

The hotbox could be a needle and it would still be unbalanced

Winch claw itself is an unbalanced and skillless concept

[indigo nexus]

second part is incorrect, winch claw requires quite measured use for it to be fairly called meta

need to know when to use it and need to reliably be able to make good use of it

[slow linden]

I am dogshit and I hit and profit from 80% of my winches

I literally placed cardboard this season,and yet every time I use winch I win

[indigo nexus]

cool, though the number that you profit from enough to 1. outweigh the other 20% and 2. outweigh the benefit of any other spec is necessarily lower

[slow linden]

A blind deaf quadriplegic infant could do good with winch,it needs to go

[muted condor]

I switch to mesh for the later half of this season with spear because I’m so bored of winch

You just point click and get a kill

[slow linden]

Try goo,gun,pretty sure goo no longer cucks spear

Additionally goo gun counters winch in a 1v1

[muted condor]

Goo still fucks spear

[slow linden]

Unfortunate,it didn't till they fucked it up,goo gun spear used to be a good favorite of mine

Charge and spear is incredibly fucking funny,would recommend

[left sage]

i love winch in any game that has it but here it really does limit the design space for other heavy stuff

[shell sonnet]

making holes in the roof, then m2'ing?

[slow linden]

From time to time

[shell sonnet]

yeah, love that
though cns synergises well with itself on that

[slow linden]

An enjoyer of winch admitting that it is a parasitic tumor that is limiting heavy? Almost unheard of,I commend you

I also just love nuking people running through alleyways from above with cns

[indigo nexus]

I find goo gun more fun and effective

[indigo nexus]

It is surprisingly not that bad

[slow linden]

Charge and slam is old reliable,it can't be bad

[plucky spade]

HOW CAN YOU OUTGAME-FEEDBACK THE GUY JESUS

[indigo nexus]

I don’t know what you mean

[indigo nexus]

Well using a close range damage spec + a close range damage weapon may seem like quite the antisynergy

[muted condor]

Goo stops spear from doing damage so it’s a big no go for me

[indigo nexus]

Not really, you just can't damage them immediately after the goo hits. It still gives you a burst damage advantage overall, and has all the rest of its utility

[placid slate]

Bro doesn't know

[muted condor]

He doesn’t know 😔

[indigo nexus]

know what

[placid slate]

He doesn't know

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[placid slate]

No he doesn't

[muted condor]

Goo makes the M2 not connect

[indigo nexus]

I am aware of that

doesn't happen unless there's a lot of it though

[boreal laurel]

I just use goo gun no matter what weapon I’m using (except in Power Shift)

I hope they never ever nerf goo gun

[unkempt moss]

Its coming bud. GooGun is a little too fun for Embarks vision of the game.

[placid slate]

Also getting stunlocked feels like shit

V9s got buffed

93r got nerfed

Bfr got nerfed

No other obvious changes

[left sage]

How was bfr nerfed

[placid slate]

About 5 less damage, allegedly

[left sage]

Seems kinda pointless but alright

[serene glade]

tbf pointless is the embark balancing philosophy

[placid slate]

In other news the winch damage nerf didn't go through, spear narrowly avoids another nerf

[unkempt moss]

Yeah but it gives the light players happy feefees when embark-sama pats them on the balls with things like this and gives them their bottle with heavy nerfs

[left sage]

Alrighty then bud

[unkempt moss]

My goal for S9 is to go scorched earth on lights in game and in discord.

[placid slate]

Alright buddy

[graceful nova]

Catch them if you can

Time to hit Kovaaks

We lost a wt final round because my teammate’s pyro grenade destroyed my C4 before it’s armed and ready to breach the double dematted cash out station

[placid slate]

They don't got kovaaks on ps5 unfortunately

[graceful nova]

You can aim train with Gyro in Kovaaks via steam input

The real trick is mimicking your PS5 setup in Kovaaks somehow

[indigo nexus]

how?

[indigo nexus]

seems meaningful

[still parrot]

when Embark touches base dmg its usually to effect a breakpoint, idk what that guy is waffling about

[placid slate]

Falloff, predicted it ten miles away

[left sage]

Doesn't that just work out to being a minor range nerf

[still parrot]

that's what the BFR needed, its a DMR on Heavy

[indigo nexus]

No, it's different at all ranges

[left sage]

Does it change shots to kill on any classes at max damage or min damage

[indigo nexus]

it's just slower to kill heavies really

but is still a minor range nerf on the other two

[left sage]

Oh yeah 5 shots to kill a heavy now that's kind of brutal and really not the class it needed a nerf against

The counter to bfr is now just more heavies lol

[placid slate]

You aren't gonna see double heavies man

[unkempt moss]

Is double heavy that bad?

[muted condor]

LMH still the best comp

[unkempt moss]

When did that switch? Wasn't it HMH for ever?

[muted condor]

Never was as far as I’m aware

MMH was busted af back in season one tho

[placid slate]

No, it was hmm until season 7

Also they removed all gun skin rewards from ranked

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-no-one-cares-gif-18925814

[muted condor]

Despite what people will tell you the game is in its most balanced state with one of the least annoying metas

[still parrot]

according to Oscar the old ranked reward skins are unique and will be different to the ones offered via reward coins

people cannot get the same old emerald and diamond skins, they look different

[placid slate]

So the gun skins are downgraded aswell

[serene glade]

despite what people will tell you, my opinion is right and theirs is wrong

[muted condor]

The ranked skins were kinda ass imo anyways

[placid slate]

Trust me they'll only be worse

[muted condor]

Cool if you didn’t have a skin for the weapon but I already have way cooler ones

[still parrot]

people still get to feel special for playing 100hrs of WT in a single season

[placid slate]

Or a recolour of the new level 13 skin

[muted condor]

If they actually changed the weapon and came with unique animations they would be worth something

[placid slate]

Also all the diamond mfs are just not gonna bother with ranked since they can just pub stomp to get their stuff quicker now

[muted condor]

This is actually 100% true

I am the defacto source for the most correct opinions

[shell sonnet]

Didnt they say cashout/ranked gets more points?

[muted condor]

People call me Truthenheimer

[shell sonnet]

What other changes are there?

I see someone complain about heal beam nerf in feedback?

[serene glade]

probably complaining about the nerf it got like 3 seasons ago still

[lucid sorrel]

anyone know if they buffed dual blades

[placid slate]

Like 3 total weapon changes outside model and ks

[shell sonnet]

Which ones?
I saw 93r

[placid slate]

93r nerf, v9s buff, bfr nerf

93r no 2 burst, v9s falloff range up, bfr 5 less damage

Was exepct more for such a dry season for our gear and the lack of changes from last season

[lucid sorrel]

where are u getting this info

[placid slate]

Testing

[shell sonnet]

Looking into the 4th dimention after drinking 7 ospuze

[still parrot]

I'mma need to see proof of 93r 2rnd burst cause that just sounds hilarious, a 30% dmg nerf?

[serene glade]

when was the last time there was an actual meaningful balance patch, genuine question. feels like its been 3-4 seasons

[muted condor]

Technically the last one that made spear viable ish

[still parrot]

demat nerf

[serene glade]

spear less buggy changem and demat operating the same just less spammable. remember when changes were weekly. kinda cool we still get those except it takes 3 months to get the same level of changes

[still parrot]

demat pickrate went from 90% to like 45%, it was very meaningful and a good change for variety when it came to fighting mediums

we've barely seen balance patches thanks to the major, which shouldn't be the case (they should play a competitive build while we get changes) but y'all are mad dramatic

should hopefully see more balance patches now the major is out of the way

[serene glade]

id actually think the "best of the best" would be able to just play and adapt to whatever, but yeah esports is so cool and epic

[unkempt moss]

Googs is a known embark hater. Hes very vocal about embark worrying about making the grand major a priority over the player base. The grand major will be a huge win for us real gamers, am I right?

[forest birch]

This may be a dumb question, where exactly is the info for these changes so I can catch a glimpse without having to read 80 comments of this is good this is bad, before hard swapping to a different nerf/buff

[still parrot]

there is no info, its just people noticing shit in the preview event

[forest birch]

Gotcha, so some of the stuff in chat has been speculation and others have been off what was in the preview and analyzing it

[still parrot]

yes

[versed finch]

Nothing for Season 9 yet, but they will be in the patch notes once the season comes out

[forest birch]

Yea I figured that, I just didn't know if there was like a preview of the changes apart from the stream and what not

[versed finch]

Ya, not too much. Take what you can get from their latest vid and the preview stream, but other than that, no info

Can't wait for the KS-23 Accuracy buff

[unkempt moss]

This preview event has me absolutely stoked for S9! KS is back on the menu boys lol

Flame thrower skin? Holy moly

[muted condor]

I actually completely agree with this. Fuck what the pros have to deal with just balance the game and if they are actually good players they will adapt

[unkempt moss]

Esports will bring in new players, so this is a very delicate and important time in the games life. We need to focus on this.

[serene glade]

if you wanna play competitive finals then i feel like thats on you. but lets shape balancing and everything around them because if you change something they dont like they might get upset

[unkempt moss]

You guys are being dramatic like that one gamer said.

[still parrot]

simple answer is just have a competitive build, its not rocket science

everyone's happy then

[unkempt moss]

This guy is correct.

I wish you guys would be a lot nicer to embark. Maybe you'd get what you want if you were such negative nellies lol

[muted condor]

“Leave the multi million dollar company alone guys”

[shell sonnet]

Someone said rpg got buffed?

[muted condor]

RPG should one shot medium fr

[shell sonnet]

[Flashbacks]

[unkempt moss]

This guy gets it. There's a lot of moving parts in a company this large. They are doing their best.

[shell sonnet]

Am i glad nukes are gone

[muted condor]

Embark has a bunch of parts that should be moving but most of them haven’t budged in ages

Needs some grease and a cold start

[unkempt moss]

No. The game is fine right now

[muted condor]

Mediocrity should be disappointing not praised

[indigo nexus]

game is great

[rare shale]

Game is lovely

[still parrot]

game is poggers

[unkempt moss]

See, youre in the minority here bud.

[indigo nexus]

if it was mediocrity I wouldn't have put 900hrs into it

[unkempt moss]

Oh so you're just lying

[faint steppe]

The modern internet has spawned so many chronic complainers it's actually insane. This game is flawed (like every game) but still the best FPS out rn. Like the amount of times a see actual brain rot complaints is ridiculous

[unkempt moss]

Exactly. This guy is a real gamer.

[hazy spoke]

any public balance changes from the event yet?

[serene glade]

its not a high bar to be the best fps out

[faint steppe]

I know you are trolling but some of you guys have the weirdest complaints imaginable

[unkempt moss]

Im not trolling. It is the best FPS out right now. Has been.

And its not even close.

[muted condor]

It’s also spawned a bunch of people that are fine with companies shitting out sub par products and get glazed for it

Cough cough… Helldivers… cough

[faint steppe]

The question is who decides what is a sub-par product. I do think games can have fundamental "objective" issues but balancing is very rarely one of them.

Helldivers has had some serious issues but it also did a lot of things extremely well and was a blast to play for like 80+ hours. But I agree that every game will ultimately spawn both extremes

[kindred arrow]

helldivers 2 is a pretty good product, quite frankly, the devs are just not that great at upkeeping it because they clearly were not prepared for a massive audience

[placid slate]

A massive audience that'd probably start a bomb threat at their office if they make the enemies not a pushover

[kindred arrow]

you could call it an accidental success but what they were trying to make is not what most people expected to get

they did a pretty good job at the heavily asymmetric pve space that never really landed in the mainstream before

like the closest genre comparison i could ever come up with for helldivers 2 is an obscure total overhaul mod for doom, of all things

[placid slate]

Starship trooper extermination

[kindred arrow]

where arrowhead fails is that they have repeatedly decided the best way to balance their game is either nerfing player weapons or adding arbitrary instant lethality to enemies, and neither of these actually make the game more fun

dangerous enemies are important, but having massive invisible oneshot flame cones from a flying unit as heavy as a literal main battle tank is pushing the envelope a little too far

[placid slate]

The game isn't fun when you can genuinely fall asleep playing either

[kindred arrow]

the issue with that is that they insist on having 5 extra lives per player, so the only way to make a genuine risk of running out is having BS enemies like this that are not fun to engage with

[placid slate]

I could take a nap in front of a gunship or a elevated overseer and I'd come back unscathed

[kindred arrow]

there's a reason it is near universal in pve that going down is a major event for the team and dying is even moreso, but helldivers 2 does not have a downed state and dying is instantly remedied for the first 20 times

it lets you make enemies that are not BS on the lethality front while still keeping the game actually difficult

[placid slate]

If people canr handle dying with 20 lives, that's their problem

[kindred arrow]

if you imagine a game like DRG with 20 reinforcements instead of its actual downed mechanic, DRG - already kind of easy PVE game, but it would be utterly boring like that

you would need to make enemies utter BS or make weapons suck to maintain difficulty, but BS enemies and sucky weapons just make the game less fun to justify this stupid free respawn system

[placid slate]

Gimme 10 reinforcements at d10 and it'll still be pretty easy, normal difficulty even

[kindred arrow]

genuinely think that it should be 2 per person at most

[placid slate]

Game would be better off if they actually used the difficulty system

[kindred arrow]

2 on 10, 3 on 9, 4 on 8 and 7, 5 below that

ideally youd have a wider scale but its the fate of PVE games that the bottom 2/3 of difficulty is relegated to early onboarding and not genuinely used by experienced players

this got very sidetracked from the finals gear balance discussion, but to be fair the developers have not given us anything new in that space to discuss this season

[placid slate]

Because the changes are so minimal that there isn't much to discuss

Season 9 is very empty

[kindred arrow]

rush mode is fairly substantial as an addition

(i do not care what its actual name is, it's rush)

[placid slate]

That's not gonna affect cashout mfs

[kindred arrow]

i think the weapon class space in the finals is fully explored at this point

[placid slate]

You'd assume they'd move onto big balance patches then but they just don't

[kindred arrow]

like, for example, you could give heavy an smg, but the shak is already a heavy-sized smg

[placid slate]

Qeapons got tiny ass number changes

[indigo nexus]

Sub-par? Helldivers is a pretty impressive game, no?

[placid slate]

Only notable ones is the dual blades 3rd m1 not being worse than the qm in all situations

[kindred arrow]

the most legitimate complaint for helldivers is not balance, it's the game's rapidly escalating tech debt

[placid slate]

Shit got shrunk to 23gb

[kindred arrow]

the fact that the game has been 5x larger than it needed to be for over a year just because they assumed something worked in a way it did not

[spring spear]

someone yesterday was complaining about this game not having 'ults'
idk whats happened with the younger generation of gamers but it's depressing

[sudden pewter]

@compact tundra big ass sword skin 4 u

[muted condor]

Both the Finals and Helldivers a fun games with shot management

[muted condor]

Super fun and awesome game with shit devs

[placid slate]

Helldivers management is held in a stranglehold by the community

[compact tundra]

I just creamed, that shit is so cool and fits one of my skins color scheme so well

[muted condor]

Naw they dug themselves into every hole they end up in

[compact tundra]

It's a fucking big ass falchion too

[muted condor]

The community definitely over reacts to stuff

[placid slate]

And the community forced them into a second hole and sealed it shut

[sudden pewter]

I blame the shitty clickbait tubers

[placid slate]

Instead of no holes

[sudden pewter]

Arrowhead kept digging deeper tbf

[placid slate]

Nah bro, they are getting fucked in the ass by the fact the community won't let them balance shit

[muted condor]

AH has lied multiple times and has actively censored people that have actual valid complaints against them

[sudden pewter]

There is a very vocal portion of the playerbase averse to ANY changes I agree

[placid slate]

Like they have to be incredibly careful if they release stuff that powercreeps everything else because the community just won't let them nerf shit, same with enemies but reversed

[sonic zephyr]

im glad that Medium is in the gutter again. now they only need to castrate heavy and light and then the game is finally gonna be e-sports ready!!

[muted condor]

That’s kinda their fault for giving into that side of the player base and driving off the more serious players in the first year

[placid slate]

Brother the season ain't even out yet

[sonic zephyr]

so healbeam having reduced heal might be a buff and we just havent tried it yet?

[placid slate]

Maybe they should be allowed to balance their fucking videogame instead of using its their fault as an excuse to keep the game down

[muted condor]

Also I would like to say I do think HD2 is still a good game and AH are not the worst devs out there

[placid slate]

If you need to crutch off healbeam to do well I don't know what to tell you

[muted condor]

They definitely should have done that. Part of why I don’t like AH is because they take the easy way out every time and it usually is straight into the next deeper hole to climb out of

[placid slate]

Like mfs are calling for the platinum mission to be nerfed and you know what? That shit was still easy

[muted condor]

I beat my first one of those on D9 after two months off the game lol

[placid slate]

First time playing it, 5 deaths across the whole squad

[sonic zephyr]

oh idk im just a fan of having a usable specialisation and medium as of right now has none.

• Turret is... Well turret
• Demat is still botched since they made it clunky
• Heal Beam is nerfed again

[placid slate]

Average medium main

[muted condor]

AH making it so everyone can beat a D10 was their biggest blunder for me

[sudden pewter]

RPG skin cool

[sonic zephyr]

Light also received an assbeating, if the changes turn out to be true so medium isnt the only one whos gonna suffer in the new season if thats of some solace to you

[rain jay]

His face lmao

[sudden pewter]

Also we finally got the KS23 animation bundle

[placid slate]

750 too much

[sonic zephyr]

god forbid a f2p game sustaining itself

[muted condor]

Where is my plain midriff tank top Embark?!

[indigo nexus]

The actual devs or like, marketing / community management?

[muted condor]

Both

[sudden pewter]

The actual devs seem to be incompetent. We're at the point where any unlisted changes to weapons or functions could either be a complete accident or the devs intentionally changing things and not listing it in patch notes

[indigo nexus]

I don’t play the game but the amount of content they were able to put out really impressed me

[placid slate]

Shit is double the price of half the animation packs

[muted condor]

I don’t blame the tactile ground floor guys of course, they and have any control over what they are allowed to do

[sudden pewter]

HellDivers is a fantastic game but the devs leave much to be desired

[indigo nexus]

Helldivers

[sturdy sigil]

It is pretty impressive

[muted condor]

It would be awesome if you could use the awesome content without the game crashing or constant bugs of every kind

[indigo nexus]

It would probably be their fault if patch notes weren’t accurate, though

[indigo nexus]

Perhaps they focused too much on quantity of content?

[sonic zephyr]

"focusing too much on quantity" is a very bold claim when we consider how much they throttled the developement of new stuff.

[sudden pewter]

Kitten come play Hell Diver with me

[muted condor]

They have cut back on content releases three times now and even paused all work on future content for months to fix stuff and there’s still game breaking bugs from the beginning of the year

[indigo nexus]

So they went faster than they could keep up with, by the sounds of it.

[sudden pewter]

They kept adding technical debt in favor of content and now that it's biting them in the ass to the point it cannot be ignored they're forced to slow down

[muted condor]

They just don’t fix stuff. It took them almost two years to make the game file size reasonable

[sudden pewter]

I get it, HellDivers2 is PlayStations golden goose, but holy shit nobody saw this coming?

[indigo nexus]

I wonder then how much of that was community demand and how much of it was arbitrary higher level decisions

[muted condor]

I called this happening back when they dropped polar patriots

That’s how long ago the game was already suffering

[muted condor]

I get off work in 2 and a half hours pookie

[sudden pewter]

Okay 😔

[muted condor]

It just seems like they have really bad management. They already had one CEO step down

I think the reason I get so worked up over Helldivers and the Finals is that the games are great but they could be so much better

[indigo nexus]

Finals keeps getting better for the most part, imo, so I’m not really worried about it

[muted condor]

Devs should just click the “fix problem button” on the desk that instantly fixes everything already smh

[unkempt moss]

They should just ask Chat GPT for some balance updates they can try.

[indigo nexus]

Let me try that real quick

[unkempt moss]

Its just going to say nerf winch in all caps.

[placid slate]

This shit not real

[indigo nexus]

I’m not going to post all of it but it’s considering an “LS-18 Minigun” nerf

Reducing C4 stack limit by 1

[placid slate]

Lemme pull up chatgpt myself rq

[indigo nexus]

The light can apparently “wall jump” as its signature manoeuvre

[sonic zephyr]

where are you all pulling these changes from?

[indigo nexus]

ChatGPT

It would make a far better game than embark have…

[sonic zephyr]

v9 damage decrease?

sounds terrible that thing is a peashooter already

which makes sense considering range mag size reload time and all that but its in a pretty good spot rn no clue what chatgpt is on about

[unkempt moss]

The sawed off nerf is kinda based tbh

[placid slate]

ai is confused but it gave me this:

[sudden pewter]

@Grok write me code that makes the idiots uninstall

[muted condor]

Iv heard enough, make this guy the lead of development

[unkempt moss]

There's no guns or gadgets this season right? Just a map and mode?

[placid slate]

Yea

[sudden pewter]

Thank god

[muted condor]

No dual blades rework
Game dead
Going to go play bo7 instead

[unkempt moss]

They need to use my V9S update. It would be great. They take my V9S and MGL rework and they're good to go.

[tired cedar]

is this just AI reading all the patch notes?

[placid slate]

100 damage 3rd m1 btw

[placid slate]

Idk I couldn't get it to work

[tired cedar]

F

[unkempt moss]

They updated the dual blade?

[muted condor]

This made me realize embark might actually use Ai to write their patch notes. It reads exactly how they write them 😂

[placid slate]

Yea, don't know about block though

[unkempt moss]

Could be using it to compile them all together easily. That would make sense

[indigo nexus]

I don't think so, their patch notes (at least the details) don't use the GPT-like sentence structures. The layout is pretty standard

[unkempt moss]

I'm reading they buffed v9s. What did they do?

[shell sonnet]

Falloff changes
Same damage over greater distance i think?

Dont nuke me if my secondary source knowledge is wrong please 🙏

[unkempt moss]

They increased a silenced pistols range?

[still parrot]

the falloff is pretty wack

[shell sonnet]

Placement now allowed to clip into walls, awesome

Also, reduced cloak drain while crouching seems interesting
Was the reduction buffed or added? I dont remember

[sudden pewter]

Holy shit the self damage on RPG was already punishing but now its almost a guaranteed death

Barricade change is huge though

[forest birch]

Where did this come from? Is it for sure or is this changes that were viewed over the course of a stream

I've been working so I haven't had a chance to check stuff out

[shell sonnet]

I can finally block monaco's stairways again 🥲

[wide stratus]

Need more mythic skins for weapons that aren't heavy. There's like 4-5 heavy mythic skins and like 1-2 for medium and light CMONNNNNNN

[shell sonnet]

Used discords search feature
Found it in finals chat

No idea if stuff is missing or 100% correct

[forest birch]

Gotcha thank you for the warning as well

I haven't played for a bit but dropping the BFR damage by 15 kinda nukes the gun doesn't it, or atleast breaks some of the existing break points?

It didn't seem crazy for most players unless they were able to hit shots, makes it feel less like the anti light gun some people were using it for

[shell sonnet]

Only heard of 5 shot for heavy
Nothing about ither breakpoints

[muted condor]

Dual blades buf?!

I take back everything bad iv ever said about embark

[placid slate]

Suicide bombing buff

[placid slate]

Bro I sent you this like 20.minutes ago

[sudden pewter]

and not me????

[placid slate]

Yes

[sudden pewter]

What does this mean for our relationship.

[placid slate]

Gladiator death battle

[visual ivy]

buff throwing knives

[sudden pewter]

No

[unkempt moss]

Throwing knives need a little help

Make them slightly track to the reticle so its easier to hit

[visual ivy]

make them explode on headshot to deal more dmg

[hardy dust]

Fixing servers buffs tks

[plucky spade]

BFR Titan needs a fire rate nerf, not a goddamn fucking damage nerf, it still kills lights faster than the repeater

[karmic axle]

Can we add in Makin, Saipan and Iwo Jima in this game?

[hardy dust]

Bfr kills slightly slower than repeater but both are stupid and deserve proper nerfs

[hazy spoke]

they nerf light and buff heavy this has to be a troll😂😂

[plucky spade]

It's 87 bfr vs 85 cb on rpm isn't it

[hazy spoke]

why am i even playing atp

[hardy dust]

Isnt bfr 75

[unkempt moss]

I say we give lights all yhe buffs and nerfs they want so when they still get smoked by heavies the emotes feel even better.

[plucky spade]

I take it back, 78.5 rep vs 77.5 bfr

[sudden pewter]

Lights when they aren’t specifically catered to 90% of the time:

[plucky spade]

The difference might as well not exist im sorry

[plucky spade]

The bfr, winch getting nerfed:

Oh here comes the light main guys

[hazy spoke]

yeah, only affecting h vs h

[hardy dust]

Bfr and winch both got barely a slap on the wrist, plus the nerfs are only effective against other heavies 😭

[plucky spade]

Nerf's a nerf
Titan needs rpm nerf

[hazy spoke]

think first, then write. thx

[plucky spade]

Ok bro sure

[weary eagle]

Very slight dual blades buff, it will make achieving optimal ttk easier without doing swap cancelling (Its still bad)

Going to need more than that to make dual blades good

[sudden pewter]

Average Light.

[muted condor]

My bad, I was to distracted by my hating

[plucky spade]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[plucky spade]

At least heavies die to the full combo now

[hardy dust]

Winch nerf (yeah valid)

Worst takes ever

Average game feedback post

[weary eagle]

Ill have to test it but I doubt its faster than a swap cancel combo so ig it makes it easier to use the weapon

[plucky spade]

Maybe it really is the player fault the game is dying

[sudden pewter]

Thats because everyone that cares about the games success moved on, and totally aren't in other channels because they realizr #👂┇game-feedback is a quarantine for stupidity

Not that you'd know, you have no concept of balance, no game sense, no clue, just dont want your free kill gadgets taken away...

[weary eagle]

The ttk is still really bad against competent heavies, most h weapons kill m in 1.6 seconds bodyshot only meanwhile optimal DB ttk is 2.1

[hardy dust]

Nah trust embark devs read through all the feedback there 🙏

[plucky spade]

Well I guess heavy always kills med faster than the other way around

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, they have a weekly drawing of straws and whoever gets the shortest is put on suicide watch

[weary eagle]

Yeah but against a melee weapon?

You can only do so much to improve your chances

[sudden pewter]

That channel is the biggest steaming pile of shit I've ever seen. Moderating it isn't an option because the dumbasses would claim their "feedback" (whinging) is being "silenced" (removed because it isn't feedback)

[plucky spade]

Look i don't know why they're so afraid to buff medium melee further
Oh yeah the riot shield craze

[hardy dust]

Whenever anything janky becomes mainstream people just complain instead of learning how to adapt to it

[plucky spade]

The riot shield that naturally gets countered by any team that plays averagely

[sudden pewter]

Because they want The Finals to be something else. They aren't here because they love the game, they just want more shiny trinkets and jingling keys

[hardy dust]

Melee as a whole just constantly gets shafted because people refuse to counterplay

[sudden pewter]

Embark also doesn't know how to balance melee, which they've made apparent

[hazy spoke]

guys i play every class and nothing is as noskill and easy as heavy + nothing more skill and harder to play than light (excluding db and m11). i dont get the light hate tbh. makes me believe that none of you guys play at high elo but maybe im wrong🤔…

[plucky spade]

" S9 needs muh gadguts and weipons"

[weary eagle]

yeah even the best heavies won't hit all their shots if your moving properly but then you remember winch exists. So basically walking into melee range against a heavy is a death sentence

[sudden pewter]

Common Yellow L

[plucky spade]

Vro ok

[sudden pewter]

LIGHT HASN'T RECIEVED A NEW TOY IN TOO LONG IF THEY DONT ADD ONE RIGHT NOW IM UNINSTALLING AND GOING BACK TO FORTNITE

I NEED A CONSTANT DRIP OF CONTENT OR I SHIT THE BED

[hardy dust]

Light relies a lot on the enemy's skill level. So against a bad player light is gonna be way stronger and seem way less interactive

Thats why light is such a pain to balance

It can be very oppressive and very weak at the same time

[sudden pewter]

Players at large are also super stupid and play Light like they would any other game, which results in them trying to 1v3 teams and dying like idiots

[plucky spade]

V9s buff, 93r nerf to maybe bring some variety to light matchups, gateway nerf cause holy utility and infuser getting slapped on the wrist

[hazy spoke]

so you think we should balance around matchups of people with different skill level? shouldnt the more skilled player always win?

[sudden pewter]

SBMM outside ranked would kill the game more than it already has

[plucky spade]

And glitch nade nerf because spam

[sudden pewter]

They should do that with Goo unironically

[plucky spade]

Seems fair to me vro

[hardy dust]

No I think people who complain about light usually have a skill issue 😭

There are valid points but most of the time people asking for light nerfs are just complaining without good reason

[hazy spoke]

is this supposed to have anything to do with what i said?

[hardy dust]

Goo should have more counterplay, like making it weaker when initially deployed or to explosions or smth like that

And make fire burn it faster cuz its pretty slow

[plucky spade]

1 goo nade is good enough

[hardy dust]

If goo is still very dominant after those initial nerfs then sure

[sudden pewter]

At the very least it needs to lose a charge, if that isn't on the table I agree something else needs to be done

[hardy dust]

Cuz I'd rather have it be toned down a little first, then go from there

Because embark doesn't really backpeddle so I could absolutely see goo getting gutted and not being buffed back to a proper spot for a long time

[sudden pewter]

I dislike how spammable goo is as an anti-chase measure
Oh the player fucked up and used a goo to try to buy time for an escape?
Oh you used a utility to go around it/negate it?
Fuck you, second goo.

[hardy dust]

Also buffing other gadgets that compete with the same slot as goo so its not an easy pick 100% of the time

Plus nerfing goo nerfs melee and that always sucks

[sudden pewter]

Goo would still be S tier even with 1 charge

[hardy dust]

Either way goo should get some kind of nerf

[sudden pewter]

Aye

[hazy spoke]

if you think so u prob never played at a high rank with all classes. if i play heavy i can literally lean back while playing while i need to be hyperfocused to not die + get value on light. and while im not ruby i have a bunch of ruby friends i play with who all think the same. there is noone playing the game more optimally than the top 500 obviously. do you want to tell me that theire all being complaining bc of skill issue? i mean cmon bro, i shouldnt need to explain this. it should usually be pretty obvious to people who play this game for a while….

[hardy dust]

?

I don't think you understood what I meant

[sudden pewter]

He doesn’t either, don’t worry about it

[muted condor]

I actually can’t tell which side he’s on

[hardy dust]

Im so confused 😭

[sudden pewter]

Heavy easy Light hard and if you hate Light you’re bad at the game

[hazy spoke]

you implicated that there is no imbalance, just people with skill issues. if thats not what you wanted to say mb for getting it wrong @hardy dust

[muted condor]

I’d say the classes are the most balanced now than they ever have been

[hardy dust]

I think there are imbalances between classes

[sudden pewter]

That’s wild, it’s almost like each archetype has areas they’re strong or weak in by design….

[hardy dust]

But each class still offers enough to be valuable

But I don't think they're equal, and I doubt they ever will be. But I do think its in a pretty good spot overall

[hazy spoke]

you can still hate light but you cant deny its by far the weakest (excluding db…) if youre good

[hardy dust]

😭

Excluding the weakest light gun lol

[sudden pewter]

Light isn’t supposed to be a frontline fighter, players that try to fight Heavies head-on should be clapped for their incompetence.

[hardy dust]

https://tenor.com/view/three-glasses-gif-24249833

[sudden pewter]

Bro slipped up

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-doakes-curious-suspicious-questioning-gif-14390669560130901665

[spring spear]

i agree with the "nerf winch" sentiment but this guy's filled with awful statements, he was saying pyro mines were powerful no skill heavy bullshit earlier today

[sudden pewter]

It’s a known idiot, if you criticize the statement or anything therein you’re just a no-skill Heavy that doesn’t want winch nerfed

Common Light Player

[hardy dust]

Is that the method?
Add nerf winch to whatever suggestions you make so when someone critiques it you just call them a winch defender

[hazy spoke]

alr but its just a fact that llm/llh is considered way to weak while every other combination of classes is strong. ofc its personal prefecence if some would like a game where double light comps are equally valuable. but what im trying to say is. in the state the game is right now/has ever been since release. theres absolutely no reason to buff havy and simultaniously nerf light. thats why i dont understand the hate on light players 😭. ps: db is by far the easiest weapon to play in high rank and get value with.

[spring spear]

nah he just clown emoji'd me when i told him the counterplay to mines was not stepping on the obvious glowing traps

[sudden pewter]

Read the bottom-most sentence, dude just hates Heavies

Anything that can inhibit his mobility is OP.
Lights shouldn’t have to watch where they’re going, therefore mines are OP.
Grapple should be a get out of jail free card, and should release Lights from Lockbolt or Winch.
Anything that can two-tap a Light should be nerfed, but it’s okay for Light to have OHK weapons.

[hardy dust]

Llh/llm is weaker because light has more weaknesses and gets picked off easier, which is by design. It makes sense multi light comps should be weaker because then light will get forced into more direct fights, which isn't light's role. Not all comps should be equal. I also agree that nerfing light and buffing heavy is stupid, but the patch notes aren't even out yet... also db is the worst gun on light and one of the hardest to get value out of

[wide stratus]

I genuinely don't understand how anyone can say it's the weakest. The only bad thing about it is the health but being able to get away from situations quickly is its own balance

[hardy dust]

If you have a team that consists of 3 flankers no shit its gonna be ass

[sudden pewter]

Hardest to get value out of and survive. If a DB Light dives they can generally guarantee a trade assuming they don’t beef

[wide stratus]

I'm not flexing but when I use the v95, I literally melt every other class. I went 12-0 with the v95 just before

[sudden pewter]

There’s other conditionals OFC but it’s a strong weapon in isolation

[hardy dust]

I wouldn't say they can guarantee a trade consistently but also trading right at the enemy team is usually not getting value

It takes a lot of effort to properly use db against a competent team

[sudden pewter]

How the fuck do you stand that gun? I cannot find the strength to use it. The fire-as-fast-as-you-click method just isn’t for me.

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, but that ties into the skilled lightvskilled opponent

[hazy spoke]

but who limits the light role to flankers. the devs definitely dont. and i also think limits are alsays worse than freedom. but thats my opinion

[sudden pewter]

Ofc a competent team won’t even let the light get close, therefore Light must be weak

[wide stratus]

Maybe it's because I have the alien gun skin so it's super satisfying with the sounds and the reloads. I don't use it much cuz I main heavy but it's fun to just let loose on the stinky sword users

[hardy dust]

Also the meta sucks for db rn which is the main reason its not good atm

[sudden pewter]

Poke laden meta for sure

Hopefully next season we get some changes to spice things up, BFR nerf might not be enough but we’ll see

[wide stratus]

Yea I rarely use a light as a flanker, I take them head on and usually come out on top

Does anyone else feel the dual blades has a weird hitbox when blocking? Maybe it's my shitty PS4 but I'll shoot their legs and it'll still block

[hazy spoke]

i mean guys if you wouldve seen the majors. the lights are also just diving in same range as db just with m11… there is no difference doing the same with db, just that its easier cus you dont have to track while dashing.

[hardy dust]

M11 has a shitton more range, can apply pressure more consistently, is more consistent in general, can do better against shields and goo, has more damage per mag. Its a very very different gun

[hazy spoke]

m11 also not that hard to get value out tbh

[hardy dust]

It kinda is

Any close range light weapon is generally pretty hard to use effectively

And m11 needs really good recoil control too

[wide stratus]

Ehhh does it really? You can hipfire spray and take ppl out pretty quickly

[muted condor]

Double light in a stack sucks because 50% of light players are ass so it’s guaranteed that one of them won’t do shit

[hazy spoke]

ah ok that makes sense

[hazy spoke]

thx for the info havent thought about that

[hardy dust]

Maybe up close but if you wanna be good with it past 5m you gotta get good with the recoil

[muted condor]

That’s how statistics work, don’t fact check me

[hardy dust]

Its got a low skill floor but high skill ceiling

[wide stratus]

I see what you mean yea but usually I'll be pretty sloppy with my aim but because it shoots so fast, most of the bullets end up hitting them regardless (at least in my case)

[hardy dust]

It won't make too much of a difference unless you go up against better players, in which case it starts to matter

M11 loses ttk duels against basically every heavy and medium weapon so the better your opponents get, the better you need to get aswell

[hazy spoke]

i can just say id love to play a game where any class could be able to win a 1v1 vs any other class. equally skilled players against each other. and the only impactful factor besides raw skill should be the weapon matchup i context of their beneficial scenario. but we are very far from that and im sure this will never happen.

sadly

[hardy dust]

That doesn't really fit with the game the finals is

Its got classes that each have their own roles

And having asymmetrical 1v1s is a core part of that

[muted condor]

I mean light would win most 1v1s with zero outside influence

[hardy dust]

Right now?

[hazy spoke]

why wouldnt it though. this game screams freedom. the goal should be to maximise that. theyre constantly screaming that its supposed to be a HERO BUILDER. so no fixed roles. i think limits are boring.🤷🏼‍♂️ @hardy dust

[muted condor]

Depends on the weapon match up

[hardy dust]

Not really, its kinda the opposite. Light will lose on even ground most of the time

[hazy spoke]

get outta here bruh xd

[hardy dust]

Building within the boundaries of each class is what makes it work as a TEAM GAME. If all the classes were equal there would only be one class

[faint steppe]

It really depends. Lights regen is a massive advantage in isolated 1v1s if it's just about killing. But this game is about a lot more than that

[hardy dust]

Yeah, but the light will only regen if they don't get bursted down immediately. But fs this game is way more than just isolated 1v1s

[muted condor]

Light will probably lose any fight if it has the same weapon type as the other class but probably win if it has a opposite weapon. Light db will lose against a SA12 but a LH1 will beat a minigun, SA12, or hammer

[hardy dust]

Id say heavy has the strongest 1v1 potential since they're the most combat and frontline oriented class, which is fine since they're weaker in other aspects

[muted condor]

Straight 1v1s is something that doesn’t exist in the game tho and isn’t how stuff get balanced

[hardy dust]

Light probably loses any fight unless they have a counterpick

[hardy dust]

Yeah absolutely

[muted condor]

If that was the case minigun would be F tier

[hazy spoke]

but theyre substantionally different in theyre choice of weapons, gadgets, specs, character traits. in what world would it fuse them into ONE CLASS, if the only thing youd allign are ttks and health (not possible without health alignment. @hardy dust

[muted condor]

Mandatory Off topic mini gun glaze time

https://tenor.com/view/thefinals-minigun-season-6-the-finals-coined-gif-9581155447877553437

I LOVE ALFA ACTA

[plucky spade]

10m max

[faint steppe]

Tbf, the high TTK generally lets you avoid immediately dying if you perfectly isolate your 1v1s as Light (which would obviously be the case in this scenario). That's also why we saw a decent amount of Lights winning 1v1s at the Major (even against Heavy). But realistically that's a pointless thought experiment.

[muted condor]

What weapon can team wipe in one mag? What gun can shit on over confident lights and bitch hammer players at the same time? That’s right my goat mini gun

[plucky spade]

M60? Oh wait

[hazy spoke]

thats what im saying though. if the only impactfull things in a fight are raw skill AND weapon matchups in context to their beneficial scenario. there would be even more skill expression by making the weapon of your choice work even in situations theire at a disadvantage. the goal should be:

1. most freedom possible (hero builder)
2. allign every possible „build“ so you can always win by being the better player

right know the worst thing isnt even imbalance between classes (its 2nd.)
the worst is that there are 37 weapons in this game. but only about 9 of them got played in the major. imagine what we couldve seen if at least 18 weapons wouldve been played. (still only the half)…

[muted condor]

Get away from here Satan

I will not stand for such slander

[unkempt moss]

It won't ever work like that in a major. Pros and high level players outside of specialist will gravitate towards what's optimal because its what they have to do. If dual blade turret was meta you would see that in abundance because their job is to win.

Theyre trying to make the playing field even as much as possible between them because strategy and personal skill need to be the deciding factor.

[sage lark]

hey guys, trying to complete the contract for disrupting opponents using gadgets or specializations. Been using the glitch bomb but like, that obv doesnt work. Any help?

[sudden pewter]

Lockbolt

[sage lark]

thank you. ily

[sudden pewter]

Metric shit ton of QoL next season, your teamates healthbars will display what spec they have equipped which is awesome

It’s on enemies too!!!!!

New map is beautiful but I hope it gets a unique variant akin to Vegas Sandstorm where there’s a toxic smog smothering the map

[stone vine]

what if hvy got an m107

[sweet valve]

Thoughts on adding a "Goo Mine"?

When triggered, it spreads out like a carpet on the floor.

• Can be used to trap players temporarily and the leftover goo as obstacles when fighting
• Can be used defensively to prevent demat from below
• Can be used to cover broken ceilings (if you have good aim, or if you have time to just climb up one floor)

I feel like this would either be a "love it or hate it" kind of gadget

[hazy spoke]

then theyre trying not hard enough😂
1/4 of the weapons played is boring as hell. bubulabubu or what his name was got easily winner of hearts this major just bc he got to closed qf with hammer and goo gun. ofc the majority will cater towards the strongest, but if you allign everything for the most part, the onetricks and cracks will come. also, this would allow much more synergy building in a team, and absolute cracked comp strategies that only work on certain team combs. this will make esports atually interesting to watch.

imagine heavy goo gun and sa + medium cerberus, igniting the goo the enemy is stuck in or heavy goo gun + light dagger combination. light trackingdart/sonar + heavy ks23 dropping them down on you one by one. m11 + p90 + minigun as ultimate dive comb with unlimited ammo. portal+fragnades+taser+rpg+c4+breach+winch+gasmines+explosive mines + vortex+demat+gravcube+goo+jumppad for unlimited stalls. minigun for taking agression+2cloakinglights for sneaky ambush. double riotshield+flamethrower for insane pressure.

there could be unlimited possibilities, but sadly there arent, bc of insane imbalancing

[unkempt moss]

Do you think I don't want everything to viable? I make the dumbest loadout imaginable to see if I can make them work. People have called me the Jameis Winston of The Finals

[serene glade]

People actually watched the Esports thing. That's crazy

[weak oxide]

Still perplexed that Cerberus seemingly got NO changes from what the notes from the early test said, despite them now adding a top 10 skin in the entire game for this BP

I can probably count the amount of people I've seen use it on one hand from the S7 nerf to now

[unkempt moss]

Who was complaining about cerberus back then?

Or what was the reason

[swift agate]

everyone

it was busted off it's rocker, mostly to do with its ungodly synergy with demateralizer

they gave it a small nerf first, and when pretty much everybody still agreed it was too strong, they nuked the poor thing and didn't look back

before the nerf, it was the only gun that could one-shot a light but wasn't a light gun

it wasn't an outright one-tap, as the direct weapon damage still left a light on a tiny bit of hp, but the ensuing afterburn ticked down that last bit so fast that it might as well have been, even when missing a few pellets. far more forgiving than even any of light's intraclass oneshots.

compare that to the only other cross class one-shots, the dagger and the sledge, which are both melee weapons whos oneshot conditions are very unforgiving, inconsistent, and demand a lot of skill

and now cerb can't even kill a heavy in a full mag unless you space out your shots long enough for every heavy weapon to kill you twice over

[slender bear]

Yeah the S9 balance patch is completely cooked, idk what they were thinking here

[analog pewter]

Can't believe we're so close...

[blissful iris]

Nerf the burst damage weapons ..... 93R and FAMAS meta is getting old

[jolly knoll]

CL40 DECREASED SELF DAMAGE?

left is preview
right is current

nope nevermind the damage is reduced

or?
I got no clue honestly maybe its just an anomaly that occured

I cant be this delusional to think that SOMETHING changed with this weapon?
it must be an anomaly

(or is it related to controller vs kbm maybe?)

[unkempt moss]

Aren't you the one testing it?

[jolly knoll]

never to into the preview event, im using a video for example so I cant tell

[unkempt moss]

Oh

[unkempt moss]

Me neither. Im getting tingly lol

[shell sonnet]

I think its damage is actually just different sometimes

I tested self damage once or twice, and recall getting different results for same distance, same aim, literally not touching anything but primary fire

[jolly knoll]

ah, I tried it I got consistent 115hp

[shell sonnet]

Idk where i got the memory of inconsistency from

I know bhopping is inconsistemt due to damage

But something was up with sitting still

[jolly knoll]

nope nevermind I tried it, it is inconsistent

I think it might depend on the service you stand on

which is some wizard coding

[jolly knoll]

this is false, so nothing changed to cl40

[shell sonnet]

Then it wouldnt be inconsistent when standing still

[jolly knoll]

ah

[shell sonnet]

Could you test going up to a wall (like right into it)
And then blowing yourself up?

I vaguely recall that being consistent, but im not sure

[jolly knoll]

wtf I think the practice range is just cursed, although I am shift slightly to the left

[shell sonnet]

Practise range can be a little fucky

[jolly knoll]

I think standing still should keep it consistent, but the surface inconsistency is weird

yeah its consistent while standing still, but I think surfaces in prac are just odd

still praying for slight cl40 buffs in the future

[shell sonnet]

As much as i love cl-40
Bunny hopping shouldnt reduce self damage by so much trivially

Maybe if that werent the case it could be buffed some other way

[jolly knoll]

I guess so, but unfortunately removing the bunny hopping might make people drop it entirely even though all I want is a general reduction in self damage

I do also want just the slightest increase to edge damage, maybe make it like 5 or 10 instead of just 1 but even that might be too much

[shell sonnet]

What i could see it making its explosive activate after x seconds of flight time

No self damage at close range
Can still defend itself
But you cant just jump and spam your feet to kill lights

X seconds being taken literally would be hella long

I mean like after 1-2 meters or so

[jolly knoll]

im curious how the activate thing would work

[shell sonnet]

?

[jolly knoll]

would you just be lugging slugs at them or something?

oh did you mean "can't"?

[shell sonnet]

Whoops, yup

Slugs for the distance it would deal self damage in

Afterwards normal explosives

[jolly knoll]

interesting, maybe it could work cause then itd actually just be a shotgun upclose

tbh though I kinda just want a revert back before it turned into the inner radius even though its probably better for the game

[shell sonnet]

So you can still defend yourself at point blank
Just that it becomes way harder

Though that might be trouble since it copies model pretty hard

[shell sonnet]

I have days where i die in every 2nd 1v1 with people on 1 hp 🥲

[jolly knoll]

cl40 is pain, but i still love it

i probably outta use mines, grenades, or qm more

I also geniunely think they need to fix the mythic potato launcher to have better synced reload

then again its probably an issue with how the animation is in the first place

[shell sonnet]

I still want the animation where you split the cl-40 in half like a break action to reload it

(Just cover the seams in cns cubes)

[jolly knoll]

wait thatd be amazing, itd be like the senseless demoman reload

[shell sonnet]

Thats the idea

I made a mock up, but idknif i can find it

[jolly knoll]

whatd the cycle action be and inspect be?

[jolly knoll]

I feel like for the quick reload itd be the standard open first, but for the empty youd hold the chamber up to reload it

[shell sonnet]

Now i actually think it would be in between these 2

Where the slope in front of the trigger ends

Also, chamber flip from drg
Where you just throe it up and flip it in your hands once as inspect

[shell sonnet]

I think it would just work without specific differences
At least in favor of potentially making it feel worse
Just maje it all this, and slow it down at some parts if need be

[jolly knoll]

now i want the cycle action to be a flip up, dunno howd it would work though

[unkempt moss]

Can we get Vash's gun as a titan skin please

[magic sapphire]

That'd actually be sick

It's quite beefy and mean looking

But it'd change the entire look of the titan, as it's a skinny gun almost

[unkempt moss]

Good. Its hideous

The flame thrower barrel is pretty skinny and its getting a Chinese firework skin. So I guess im just fat

[muted condor]

Second one

[shell sonnet]

I think a few people said that

[unkempt moss]

Just crushed a couple lobbies with dual blades. Its so over for my foes when the buff comes

[shell sonnet]

the secret double stacked mine, that is hidden by uninteractible visual decals in the doorway:

like, legit
why tf are there like visual extensions of geometry tehre of all places
you can place mines on the inner part of doors, and they just disappear (except for the barely visible lights)

[wide stratus]

Delightful derek

[wide stratus]

Love this idea, would you want it for have the same sort of reload or have completely new animations?

[wide stratus]

Hahaha this is such a good idea but maybe have it be a new skin that changes the way the cl looks so it has more custom animations

[shell sonnet]

But that only limits the idea to that skin

Part of it was "haha, this weapon doesnt actually work that way but cns breaks the game yet again"

+this would be useable on all (standart) cl-40 skins, not just the custom one

[wide stratus]

Ah ok so just an animation then, got it. I like it

[shell sonnet]

Ty :D

[unkempt moss]

It has to be a break barrel like the one in the show.

[wide stratus]

Like with the revolver skin? They've already done that so I doubt they'd add that in for the bfr

[obsidian nexus]

double barrel problematic still!

[plucky spade]

!! Skill issue !! ( I will snap the wrists of all double barrel users )

[olive pier]

DB is problematic? Imo it's fair unlike the sword and dash combo

[placid slate]

Complaining about sword in the big season 9

[hardy dust]

Complaining about sword or db

Worst gun and 2nd worst weapon on light 😭

[placid slate]

DB is alright

[plucky spade]

How to fix griefing:
First place in first round gets starting cash at start of round
2nd place gets no coins added
First place in 2nd round ensures you spawn near the vault in the start

[bleak osprey]

guys why recon sense was removed ?

[fleet imp]

Map wide wallhacks isn’t a fun spec to fight idk man

[bleak osprey]

so it was map wide ?!?!?

[fleet imp]

Yeah

[bleak osprey]

hell yeah bring it back

the game is basically ded yk

[plucky spade]

Script kiddies be like

[bleak osprey]

oh thx

[tulip ore]

https://tenor.com/view/daredevil-computer-rage-angry-frustrated-gif-12703513709997114229

[outer crow]

please 🙏, want to be more tf2 demoman

[plucky spade]

Funnily enough demo's gl is a perfect fit

[unkempt moss]

Welp you asked and I answered, I didnt realize there was a wrong answer.

[lapis field]

Folded stock fcar skin would be nice or animation animation that folds and unfolds it

[shell sonnet]

pain
https://youtu.be/flKh0zzFI1Q?si=XLs1nlKioyl1SI_i

recently got a few of the "phasing through goo" ones too
i cant legitimately think someone isnt joking when they say that

[hearty egret]

The finals is a virtual game where anything and everything is possible. Why is there no laser guns, more guns that are weird like flamethrower. More fun non normal guns. This is the finals, the world's greatest game show, not call of duty. We need some more interesting creative guns. Laser guns, paintball guns, lava spitting guns, shirt launcher guns. An oscar gun that one shots anyone and everyone. We need some more melee weapons like maybe some clothing hangers, maybe some chairs that you hold and swing. Nunchucks. Maybe even some new gadgets that decrease specializations recharge time for your teammates, maybe a gadget that shows everyone location with no distance limit, but the catch is that it reveals your location to everyone else. And my favorite gadget idea, a gadget that you can throw on the cashout or wherever you want and you can throw others things onto that gadget, as it is a sticky thing. So maybe you want to stick gas barrels onto the cashout, just throw the sticky gadget on it and put some gas barrels on the sticky gadget. It can be called goo 2.0 or maybe sticky goo. Or wet goo. Who knows. Maybe a new class? That would be crazy, a class that has the ability to be like all classes weapons health and specializations and gadgets but every game its all random, so a random gun, gadget, and specialization, and health and speed. But maybe a new secondary weapon? Maybe instead of that it can be a gadget, so maybe a very small damage secondary thing. It can launch toothpicks. That would be sick. And above all else, let there be a guinea piggy pet in game. Her name can be Lucy Amadeus Clementine.

OH, and custom feet. An option for barefoot and custom nail paints for toes.

[shell sonnet]

i could see them reasonably adding map bound melee weapons
like, plastic chair, 1 use, 60 instead of 40 damage when thrown if you hit someone directly

does fuck a little bit with melee weapons, and giving stuff like mgl close range options

but it would be rather funny

i just think of chivalry 2 and throwing a barrel from a roof

[hearty egret]

But what about the other ideas

[shell sonnet]

on it, still reading, just writing early cuz of cooldown

[hearty egret]

Ah ofc

[shell sonnet]

ok, thats gonna end up a wall of text, gimmie a minute

[hearty egret]

Ök. Im in advisory at school.
I got time

[shell sonnet]

-weird guns, all for it, hopefully wont end up a balance nightmare though (i had a former post about a potential arcing lightning gun)
-a few of those ideas would likely end up as good skins
-decreased recharge time could end up problematic, since it allows for more spam of strong options that have that recharge for a reason, i wouldnt risk that balance nightmare
-basically just recon 2.0, more risk to it, but i doubt people would like that
-glue sounds fun, but i would specifically prevent it from wormking on the cashout, since its important and being able to clear it by grabbing the stuff away should be an option
(might end up a balance nightmare as well, but imagine being able to like walk on walls with it, might already happen as is, if you glue pots to a wall, may be problematic to melee, though goo isnt that much different so maybe its fine?)
-no, we shouldnt get a multi-tasker class, that would break quite a few things (also, rng is a problem)
maybe some more items along the lines of reshaper works though? it gives medium access to ranged glitch barrels, eventhough they dont have grenades
-secondary weapons would probably be a bad idea
-cant complain about more pets

• 🦶

[hearty egret]

The goo isn't glue

It won't stick ppl. Just objects

And yeah. I agree with a lot. Just ideas. I just want more fun guns. Not more smgs snipers and ars

I gotta go to class now .maybe talk again later cya!🫃 🫃

[shell sonnet]

i mean, it does everything glue does, and the name is right there
i didnt meant to imply it stuns people if it sounded like that
cya

[graceful nova]

Goo gun is the ultimate cashout defense tool

Obviously it can build walls and seal up holes in ceilings

Stairs to get high ground

Goo egg around cashout for stall

And basically stops steals with one shot.

Only mesh and dome shield, or eliminating/denying line of sight for the goo gun user can stop it

[stoic moss]

Hi i start the finals but i dont kwo what to play as an heavy loadout

[graceful nova]

Try out goo gun

[stoic moss]

and with which weapons.gadget?

[stiff vine]

goo gun is hard to learn but very fun

[stoic moss]

i also pretty like the antigravity cube

[stiff vine]

shak is currently the best weapon for heavy if you want spray, BFR is the best single shot weapon

[graceful nova]

Goo gun isn’t exactly hard to use. I mean creativity makes it sound hard but not really. A lot of problems can be solved by just shooting the goo at it

It only demands good aim

Just shoot the goo, you’ll see the difference

[stiff vine]

its not hard to do basic things like block walls, the issue is that in order for it to be good and contend with other specs you need to intergrate some of the more advanced tech like stunlocking enemies or moving cashouts with goo even knowing which doorway to block

[graceful nova]

Yeah, that’s right

Sometimes though, the basic stuff can get you ahead.

In a fight stunlocking is nice but you can always just shoot/wack the enemy team as usual.

Goo can quickly form fast walls.

Not as fast as a barricade spawn, but it can block bullets immediately in the line of fire

[indigo nexus]

I think this is a hard no, since it contrasts with the established gameplay aesthetic

[stoic moss]

so goo and shak , and for the gadgets?

i enjoy the choices actually

[graceful nova]

Meta is RPG C4 dome

Pyro mines are great for me

[stoic moss]

i rly don't know when use mine , c4 and all of this instead of blocking an entrance

[graceful nova]

Heavy is about playing the long game and having burst damage to seal the deal

The thing about blocking entrances is that this is THE FINALS. Walls are mere suggestions.

And the only thing that can keep up with constant destruction is constant building. Only goo gun can build fast.

You don’t have to seal up everywhere. Just the holes that really matter.

Mines though, you can always count on putting it on the cashout and add some barrels around it. Even if they don’t fall for it, it’ll still stall them by forcing them to shoot the mines and clear any fire/gas effects afterwards

[shell sonnet]

beware that goo gun takes quit a bit of experience

nvm, they wrote that too
sorry for ping

[stoic moss]

i'm new, so it's the perfect moment to learn

[graceful nova]

Goo gun does teach you the more creative aspects of the game

[shell sonnet]

meh, not sure
trying to learn everything at once sounds like a bad idea
makes the game more complicated
where an easy loadout would make it smoother

[graceful nova]

That’s true as well

[stoic moss]

i'm a soul like player , i don't want my game easy

[shell sonnet]

once you got positioning, matchups, etc. that should be a good time to expand on it with goo gun

[graceful nova]

It’s about consistency

[stoic moss]

I'm ok with die and retry

i die, i learn, i come back stronger ahah

[shell sonnet]

good mindset to carry over though
admirable

[vapid zenith]

goo op

[rose jasper]

writing again here for more exposure

variety of anims for basic attack would be sick
slaps as heavy simply majestic
pistol whipping etc

[vapid zenith]

y

[stoic moss]

my friend ask which kind of loadout he can play as light

[indigo nexus]

Tell him to "go wild, brotato"

if one has to ask that question they probably aren't skilled enough that the meta is important

[stoic moss]

we just start the game

[shell sonnet]

can still be a valid question of if its worth it or fun

[shell sonnet]

i like to run dash with m11, vanish bomb and breach charge
make holes, sneak around and then spray someone while dashing

[stoic moss]

worth it for him i guess he like being opti

[shell sonnet]

but in casual gameplay, you can get away with a lot of things

i would stay away from melee as a new player, since that relies a lot on positioning and potentially movement

but otherwise cant really go wrong
i didnt intentionally use the pre-made new player loadouts/playstyles, but those should be decent

[stoic moss]

ok thanks

[unkempt moss]

I think the most consistent is ARN, dash. Infuser for support, gateway for movement, and invis so you can bring a second spec. Start there and when youre more comfortable you can play the game for fun.

[stoic moss]

Oh ok thank you

[unkempt moss]

For heavy, winch SHAK is your best option. GooGun takes a lot of game sense or you'll just be shooting goo everywhere not knowing why youre doing it. Healing orb, barricades, and a mine/grenade of your choice.

Youre looking for consistency right now because most of your issues with learning will come from macro and learning basics.

[muted condor]

MGL, winch, explosive mine, gas grenade, gravity cube is a really good beginner load out

[indigo nexus]

I don't agree with reccomending that to a brand new player, but it is a very viable loadout

shak is not an easy to use gun, especially with winch

[unkempt moss]

For your light friend he shoild be looking to play around your team by taking off angles and securing kills. Heavy youre taking space and setting your team up for success.

[stoic moss]

no rpg 7?

[unkempt moss]

And I guess just listen to solar sausage for whatever loadout he says.

[indigo nexus]

RPG is very good, just be careful with when you use it

[stoic moss]

i essentialy use it for destroy wall or road

[unkempt moss]

I learned by playing what I thought was cool and fun, not what's effective. Once youre good at the finals you can basically play however you want and win.

[serene glade]

maybe youll even win the hearts of everyone along the way

[muted condor]

You won my heart

[serene glade]

see, one down bud. keep it up

[abstract haven]

.

[unkempt moss]

The best advice i could give to new players is to stay away from the discord. It'll ruin thebgame for you to see whatever everyone is complaining about incessantly and you'll go in to matches with bias of blaming things instead of improving like all these dusgusting greeners here. Its a video game, just play it for fun.

[crude garden]

They should add back the recon senses but rework it. So instead of seeing enemies, it sees gadgets / specialisations and you can hack 1 of them into your own.

[shell sonnet]

not sure about hacking one into your own, but otherwise i could see that
would be interested in being able to see structures outlines through walls as well

so you can like check for weaknesses, flanks, intact map placed ziplines, etc.

what else could we slap on it to make it viable?

or just as secondary use of reshaper, the enviroment pda

[sudden pewter]

RPG buff kinda schnasty

[indigo nexus]

Mm, I don’t know what was up with that

[sudden pewter]

Cannot wait for our glorious Jihaad

[indigo nexus]

Do you know of any explanation given by any dev for it? I suppose the patch notes will probably contain more detail

[sudden pewter]

I’m hoping we get developer insight on all changes

[indigo nexus]

As far as I can tell RPG is a popular choice no matter the skill level of the lobby

[sudden pewter]

I suspect these changes are to hint that the RPG’s intended use as a entry damage tool/finisher is developer approved opposed to it leaning towards a demolition niche

[indigo nexus]

Well, they may do that, but I’m sure such a buff isn’t just there as a hint of something…

[sudden pewter]

I’d love to have a very calm conversation with whoever suggested it gain an additional charge but only deal 50 direct damage

The RPG change supports Heavies frontline design but also discourages mindless RPG use, melee Light is more likely to trade with a Heavy if they panic RPG as its 280(?) self damage will likely ensure one’s own demise

Or was it 210?

[shell sonnet]

bummer

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1279530543368769618/1395534814123397140/IMG_9626.gif

[shell sonnet]

that would be me

[sudden pewter]

I’m sorry your vision for Heavy doesn’t match what the developers seem to have in mind.

[shell sonnet]

meh, theyve been know to go questionable ways and sometimes change their minds
im interested in how thats gonna play
maybe itll work out

[sudden pewter]

Thank you for not immediately threatening to uninstall because you didn’t get your way

Honestly I see them walking it back a bit because RPG is already insanely powerful

The new mastery skins are animated! Lvl 13 is a purple base with a blueish smoke texture?

Not for me but could be cool on some gadgets perhaps

[shell sonnet]

i love the new skin
especially after 3 seasons of clouds

do kind of hope we get some feature to pick in a way

like, ofc its an achievement to get that high on a weapon
but it takes a shit ton of time, which may not be realistically achievable for new players or casuals
which only gets worse as we add levels

maybe we could like just spend xp on them individually, after you have all the basic ones

[sudden pewter]

I remember someone complaining that the majority of mythic skins belonging to Heavy, not sure I can speak to that but next seasons BP is certainly Heavy weighted it seems

[shell sonnet]

spear rework confirmed

[sudden pewter]

XP as a whole needs to be looked at because especially for Gadgets the grind is fucking ridiculous

[shell sonnet]

data reshaper 🥲

i still dont know if reshaping multiple things at once adds more xp

[sudden pewter]

Barricade can reach rank 9 overnight but you need to throw something like +3,000 Portals to get it to rank 9 iirc

[shell sonnet]

easy, throw over a pit where they dont appear
(please tell me they dont need to open for it to count)

[sudden pewter]

It’s based on unique teleportations, it not only needs to open but then be used by your team

One teammate using it multiple times only gives 1 tick of XP

[shell sonnet]

do items/throwables count?

[sudden pewter]

Lemme double check before I talk out of my ass

Bad news. No XP for props or items

[shell sonnet]

still hoping to pull off a tele-nuke some time

[unkempt moss]

I think you have the right idea with the reduced damage and extra charge. I think adding rocket jumping would make it a fun mobility tool as well but I know thats not happening.

[sudden pewter]

Heavy 👏 Doesn’t 👏 Have 👏 Mobility

[indigo nexus]

heavy does not need to be able to launch itself at enemies.

[sudden pewter]

This is by design

[serene glade]

Laugh at the goyim for suggesting fun lmfao

[unkempt moss]

Heavy has anti grav and googun.

[shell sonnet]

still trying to get a goo-a-pult to work anyways
im so close

i can clip through walls at least

[unkempt moss]

They both allow for better mobility.

I also said that heavy should receive zipline.

[sudden pewter]

Mobility Tool is not the same as Mobility Option

[shell sonnet]

opinion on that?
if i can use goo to clip through walls without breaking them, is that exploiting?

[unkempt moss]

Most likely.

[sudden pewter]

Nobody would claim the Barricade is a mobility tool, but heavy can climb it to reach higher ledges

[shell sonnet]

ill get around to report it some day
not like its consistent, known or useful anyways

[unkempt moss]

So why wouldn't antigrav be considered a mobility option?

[indigo nexus]

anti grav moves you up at like 0.75 m/s, it is very slow movement

googun is useful for getting around but bar exploits it won't move you faster.

[sudden pewter]

Heavies reliance on his team for Mobility is a balancing point intentionally put there by Embark. A mobile Heavy is scary

No, Heavy doesn’t need a jetpack, Zipline, Pad, Dash, etc. native to his kit.

[unkempt moss]

You just use the standard speed of the antigrav to lift you? People have been using antigrav slide jump for high elevation since it came out.

[shell sonnet]

actually, now that i think about it

if you cns in a grav cube, you ignore it, slam down, then fly back up way faster

could you abuse that, by slamming from floor hight to instantly ascend?

[sudden pewter]

That requires some height to build speed as you slam so you rocket upward

[shell sonnet]

dammit

[sudden pewter]

Ultimately you’ll go higher than you originally were but it requires some setup or map positioning

[unkempt moss]

Rocket jump plus antigrav would be so elite. Let's get it in there embark.

[indigo nexus]

Well you may be able to tell I've barely used the gadget. In any case I've never seen it approach rocket jump kinds of mobility

[unkempt moss]

Then you haven't ever used it in general i guess. You can also couple it with jump pad to launch higher.

[indigo nexus]

Well I have, just not much as I said

[unkempt moss]

And googun is one of the best mobility options in the game.

Its effectively a free form zipline. Climbing wall. Elevator.

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. I would argue it is worse for mobility than dash and grapple by a huge margin, and is also a lot less effective than jump pad and zipline

[sudden pewter]

It’s not comparable to dedicated mobility tools

But it is viable in many scenarios

[indigo nexus]

you could make a case for it being comparable to anti gravity? But one of the best in the game?

[unkempt moss]

Its less effective because its not on a cooldown like zipline and jump.

[shell sonnet]

should grav cube be allowed to stick to walls and go sideways?
not much of gravity yada yada, were gonna ignore that

[indigo nexus]

that would be fun!

It might turn out to be problematic but I'd like to see it

[unkempt moss]

GooGun is the single best spec in the game. I will die on that hill every time.

[indigo nexus]

sure, I agree (outside of meta), but it's no dedicated movement gadget

[shell sonnet]

melee might get some problems

[swift agate]

It's not one of the best in the game, but I will say that for the heavy class that has basically jack squat in terms of mobility, it can often take you places faster than you could otherwise get without the help of your team

[sudden pewter]

I’m on the same train

[unkempt moss]

Is this mobility thing youre freaking out about kind of like when people used to larp that support items have to heal?

[sudden pewter]

What?

[shell sonnet]

goo gun is probably one of the few things you can get genuine compliments on (besides the usual solo wipe or something)

[sudden pewter]

Healing is a type of support, but there’s more nuance to support than just healing someone ofc

[unkempt moss]

Id die on the GooGun being a top tier mobility item as well.

[sudden pewter]

Then you will die a fool

[swift agate]

Damn

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204770518264447016/1291420496042266717/lv_0_20241003112326.gif

[shell sonnet]

blasphemy

[swift agate]

Fire bars

[unkempt moss]

Are you really so incapable of creative thinking that you cant see it?

[hardy dust]

I dont feel like goo gun is a good mobility item but just super versatile. Its not good mobility, its versatile mobility.

[indigo nexus]

This is very funny to read

[unkempt moss]

Hm. So its has good mobility but is not good mobility.

[sudden pewter]

It’s versatile, and can be used to enhance one’s mobility (make stairs or walk along walls and such) but it’s definitely not a mobility tool

[shell sonnet]

i wanna make a goo line over a pit and trap it with c4 and a mine

[unkempt moss]

So its intended purpose needs to be mobility for it to be good at mobility?

[sudden pewter]

You can stun opponents, fill holes, wall off avenues of approach, build nests for the cashout station, etc.

[hardy dust]

Other "good" mobility options are efficient, they'll get you from point A to B much faster and easier than googun. But googun is versatile, which lets it act as multiple different roles, including mobility, but to a weaker extent.

[sudden pewter]

Barricade Argument.
I can climb it to reach higher ledges, ergo it’s a mobility tool

[swift agate]

It's absolutely one of the most versatile specs in the game, but it isn't anywhere near "best" in any one category, which can be a problem when you consider the fact that it's a specialization, which is supposed to be specialized. A winch claw will always be better for doing the job required of a heavy in a properly coordinated team composition, even if it isn't nearly as versitile

[sudden pewter]

It’s an option, sure. But not a tool!

[hardy dust]

Not necessarily, but generally mobility focused tools are better at mobility than more versatile jack of all trade tools

[indigo nexus]

I don't think so, that's a bit of an arbitrary appeal to its category. Nothing wrong with a generalist.

[unkempt moss]

I wouldn't say moving up four feet is great mobility. Because its the equivalent of using one goo ball. But I can complete the barricades climb 20 times.

[indigo nexus]

If its intended purpose is not mobility it will most certainly not compete on the mobility front with things that do meet that criteria

[serene glade]

I think this fake "role" thing needs to go, because there is no actual system of roles for the classes being followed. "But but mediums muh support doe, and da lights are uhhhh and heavy tank"

[swift agate]

A jack of all trades but a master of none can be better than a master of one, but I find that often times in this game, it isn't unless you can't rely on your teammates to cover your weaknesses

[shell sonnet]

in what way?
that they should actually stick to the roles?
or that they should stop pretending there are any?

[unkempt moss]

I guess it works in my favor that people aren't GooGun believers. You guys can remain ignorant to how good it actually is.

[indigo nexus]

heavy being a tank and light being a glass cannon are locked in to their design. For any other traits, I think flexibility within the class is good

[serene glade]

Pick one at this point

[gleaming aspen]

you could also master everything