💣┇weapons-gadgets

[strange jetty]

great

[limber wyvern]

M11 OR XP-54 what is the best?

[fiery thunder]

M11 atm

[eager wasp]

xp is currently pretty bad

[timber flare]

Its not bad, its just unable to rival meta

[swift agate]

Xp isn't bad in a general sense by any means, it just fills a niche that the light class in general is currently bad at filling.

M11 is good because it's dive and light is great at diving, ARN is great because it's poke, light is good at poking, and poke is meta rn, and XP is a brawl weapon, and as it so turns out, the 150 health glass cannon is pretty terrible at brawling

[timber flare]

I played few games in WT with sniper and it still feels really strong

[fiery thunder]

Comparing XP and M11, the only notable differences are DMG falloff, RPM and Mag Size

[timber flare]

XP is just brawl, neither dive or poke

So its kinda in a middle point where player confused with how to play it

[swift agate]

XP also breaches the 1 second mark for ttk on a medium

Ttks aren't the end all be all, but that's a pretty notable difference

[fiery thunder]

Would XP be better if it were pre 6.9.0, stat-wise, or still M11 dominance?

[timber flare]

Double barrel dive >:)

[swift agate]

My hot take is that XP being bad is a good thing. It's a weapon that fills the role light is weak at. No class should be good at all roles, but at the same time, every player should be given options that allow them to play any class whatever way they want.

This leaves some weapons that are simply not that good because they fill a weak niche, and they need to be in order to keep the class balanced, but there are players out there who have fun filling that niche anyway.

[swift agate]

Weak shit, SR dive is what separates the boys from the men

[ancient lily]

I’d like to see iron sights for the sniper. I’m not saying I want to see every light player suddenly run the sniper tryna quickscope people but some variety to that weapon would be nice.

[stoic garden]

it would be funny but idk

[indigo nexus]

That role being?

[stoic garden]

i'm combusting from this take

[faint steppe]

I'm genuinely confused after reading that. XP is just bad currently. If you want a close to mid range SMG you'll play M11, if you want mid to long range you'll play ARN. If you want a weapon that's good at everything but very long ranges you'll play 93r.

The XP doesn't fill a niche because it ultimately doesn't even have a place rn.

[vapid spire]

yo

[sonic zephyr]

Ok about what shit take are we fighting rn?

[plucky spade]

Bro is on to something

[inner pivot]

Is the sniper bad at all

I've seen a bunch of people say it's trash (at least pre- season 8), but if I hit my shots I'm like the best player in the lobby

[compact tundra]

You basically summed it up right there. Snipers good if your good with sniper

[dusky field]

Sliding and jumping while attacking i mostly end up crouching in place 🙃

[sonic zephyr]

one issue with the sniper is that its very easy to shut down. you can easely force the cashout when you have goo, mesh, barrier or any other defensive gadget on your team

if the cashout didnt exist, that thing would be broken

[jade pumice]

Is the arn good

[errant pawn]

when is my favourite gadget coming back? is there any set return date for the thermal vision yet?

[indigo nexus]

yeah, it's quite good at sustaining damage

[jade pumice]

Ok

[iron zenith]

well if you are refering to sliding while spinning that got patched out. but if you are talking about sliding and jumping around normally you NEED to play with auto sprint on with zero delay to activate it will make your life 100x easier

[dusky field]

Gotcha

Becoming a Spear demon soon ong

[jade pumice]

Bruh I trying to hit gold

I solo que into games

[graceful nova]

Dome shield steal? I got glitch grenades followed by a headshot mag dump.

But someone goos the ceiling and steal? There goes my dps to stop the Heavy from stealing

[muted condor]

We solo que players embrace the suck

[jade pumice]

Yeah

Now I have good teammates and added them

And we won the last match for ranked

[honest yew]

If they added any weapon id want a scythe. Big wide vertical swipes good range, causes bleed or tick dmg after getting hit, put it on the medium class

[slim crest]

I guess bro..

[coral dune]

hey i asked this in the wrong chat earlier but why is breach drill a medium gadget when we have demat? we can just demat a wall, throw flashbang, then remat the wall

My wishlist gadgets are some type of movement gadget for Heavy like a mini hot air balloon and i think Wingsuit for either Light or Medium. I think Wingsuit might be more fun as a Medium

actually wingsuit would probably be better suited as a specialization

[fossil elk]

evasive dash
When you dash you cannot take a damage from any source for 0.4 seconds but increase the cool down timer to 2.5

[shell sonnet]

Less expensive slot
Its permanent destruction that cant be reversed by another demat
The flash cant hit you from your sidey where demat would either leave it closed, or risk flashing you

[onyx junco]

What do we think of the turret and m11?
(Shoulda said it here)

[slim crest]

M11 is flat and bland, but a perfectly approachable choice for most new players. IMO.

Turret is just impossible to balance and should probably get replaced with something more fun!

[winged compass]

make turret more interesting

[tidal urchin]

getting one shot by the repeater and btr is getting old... quick

[hot otter]

Making turret have an overheat feature could help

[hot otter]

Does the flip reload for the model actually feel better to hipfire with?

[tight kelp]

yes

[swift agate]

Yeah, so let's actually explain this. There is a considerable range of engagement where XP-54 performs better than the M11 due to its lighter and more consistent recoil pattern, but also performs better than the ARN due to its overall damage and TTK.

In these midrange fights between 20-40 meters or so, XP does perform notably better than the other auto weapons. It does better damage than the ARN, and it's too far for the M11 to be consistent.

The problem is that light is very bad at playing midrange. The class is just not built for direct head-to-head teamfights which are most common at that range. Light is great at playing close, and good at playing far, but is at a very awkward disadvantage in the middle, where Medium's assault rifles and Heavy's LMGs excell, and light's mobility options (mostly dash) are much easier to track and predict.

Midrange is the territory of the Brawl playstyle, where the win condition is to push forward directly and outmatch the enemy by sheer brute force, as opposed to the long range Poke style which focuses on putting pressure on the enemy team from a safe position, and the close-point blank Dive style which focuses catching the enemy off-guard with unexpected flanks and surprise attacks to kill them faster than they can react.

XP-54 encourages a Brawl playstyle by being better than most other light options at this range, but light's class design is just bad at this playstyle because a paltry 150 health is never going to 'brute force' its way past anything. This is what I mean when I say XP fills a weak niche. An XP light at medium range is going to be better off than an M11 or ARN light, but is still going to struggling regardless because of Light's fundumental class charictaristics.

I didn't mention 93r because that weapon is in kind of a wierd spot. 93r is supposed to be in a similar camp as the XP, but just has so good of stats that it just kind of performs well in basically every situation, which is why it's in the meta alongside ARN and LH1 anyway despite not really being a dedicated poke weapon like they are.

[indigo nexus]

Er, in what sense?

Light is not that good at close range, perhaps largely because that’s where winch claws can get them.
I don’t really get the distinction between dive and what you are calling “brawl” here, you can catch players off guard whether you’re 5 meters away or 25, the only difference is dive makes you much more vulnerable…

[swift agate]

it's important to note that even though they strongly correlate, playstyles don't map perfectly to range. You can certainly Brawl close range, or Dive at midrange, and you can have success in doing that, but midrange will generaly be most conducive to Brawl play and close range will generally be most conducive to Dive play.

The real difference between dive and Brawl is not the range at which they happen, but the methods by which the players approach the fight. The goal in a Dive playstyle is start and end a fight as quickly as possible by exasperating vulnerability in the enemy's positioning and awareness, and not giving them a chance to fight back. This usually happens at close range because it's harder to exploit those kinds of weaknesses from further away

Light is good at this because they have high mobility to be where they want when they want and the fastest ttk weapons in the game, and their low health isn't as bad a factor as it normally would be because the enemy does not a chance to hit back when they take a dive in ideal situations.

The goal in Brawl play is, in essence, to keep another team from doing this to you. You're trying to force an equal position between you and the enemy where they cannot take advantage of those surprise blitzkreig tactics and instead have to deal with a direct head-to-head rushdown that they don't have the resources to handle. Brawl play generally happens at medium range because an attacking team that takes a fight too close gets punished for overextending and quickly loses. (Winch is arguably overpowered for exactly this reason, you can force the enemy to "overextend" and punish them for something they didn't do.)

Heavy is great at this because he has a lot of health to sustain through longer battles, weapons that have a lot of uptime in a fight despite having the slowest ttks, and utility that is great at holding positions and staying alive.

This is also why Brawl is very strong against Dive, and why often times this means light loses against heavy close range despite being best at 'the close range' playstyle when Heavy is best at 'the medium range' playstyle

[hardy dust]

25-40m arn will beat xp

Its more like 15-25m that xp does better than m11 or arn

But thats not worth it compared to what arn or m11 offer

Xp is just bad since it either gets outclassed or doesn't offer anything worthwhile

[indigo nexus]

This makes sense (mostly) but for that my understanding of higher level play indicates that light should usually attempt to fight at more medium ranges due to the threat of winch claw. Being more able to get the drop on a member of a team doesn’t seem worth the winch + immediate death combo that may follow a lot of the time. So I’m not sure how that should really work out

Heavy’s kit is in general a lot more reliant on close range than other classes so I guess I associate them more with diving behaviour than lights, which I consider to be the poking class

(well, poking + suppression/healing)

[swift agate]

The meta in high levels right now is Poke oriented, which is why light is playing weapons like ARN, 93R and LH1. You're not playing dive in the current meta on light, since diving into a heavy with an SA12-16 and a winch claw is more or less instant death.

On top of that, heavy is currently running a very aggressive dive kit to better fight against poke kits ran by light and medium, since brawl is weak against poke but dive is strong against poke. Even then, because heavy has limited mobility, he still needs his poke kit teammates to protect him and get him around the map when outside of close range, so he's missing a crucial factor that would make heavy the 'dive class' without outside help. a dive heavy will always be the strongest player in a close range environment, and the caveat for that is that he has to rely on his team to escort him to that environment.

What playstyle a class is best at and what playstyle the meta calls for are very different things. every class has a playstyle they're great at, one that they're good at, and one that they're bad at, and they play between the two they're better at as the team composition calls

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure if discounting the abilities each class has that are not inherent traits of the class itself makes a lot of sense but if it does then we agree

[swift agate]

I don't think I'm really discounting kit abilities at all. Every class has options that fall outside of their 'intended' playstyles, but even considering with that, their total range of specializations, weapons, and utility will still be biased towards the styles that are bolstered by their more inherent features

[timber flare]

Gadget for light, whenever a flame thrower heavy get close to u, they die instantly from heart attack.

[shell sonnet]

its called nullifier

[timber flare]

Buff nullifier insta kill any heavy >:)

Straight up nullify their soul

[thick holly]

I think one thing that could be nice for helping to buff turret without it being too strong:

making it smarter and shoot at more things then just players

Like shoot at enemy dome shields or goo that's either covering it or blocking it's vision.

Goo would still be a counter to turret, but would no longer be a hard counter

Could make a different audio when shooting at objects instead of players to help give more distinction

[shell sonnet]

one thing i could see for turret is it getting a chuck/dome shield esq half ball platform, so that if it drops, it pulls itself upright again

[stoic garden]

i open this channel and i see the best fucking idea ever

it would negate one strong weakness of the turret

letting it be picked up by you or teammates might be an interesting idea too, but it might be too transformative, clearly we want that feature reserved for turrets attached to chairs

[thick holly]

Maybe for the turret chair thing. When a turret is placed on a chair it could probably give the chair a bit more extra health so it can't be shot as easily?

[wild zenith]

https://youtu.be/2dzHxlAft48?t=549

the hecc is he doing in the timestamp? was this patched?

[solemn light]

Maybe an alternative mode that breaks walls faster without a flash would help. Would make it more versatile.

[shell sonnet]

now sure
doesnt have a lot of impact
and idk if it "makes sense" for it to have that ability

[solemn light]

yeah, fair enough i suppose

[shell sonnet]

i want to give breach drill a bigger explosion radius towards the direction its facing
so a big cylinder

that way if you place it right on the outer corner of a building, you can rip out an entire floors side wall (maybe also blowing up to 2 floors up/down up?), rewarding smart placement

[lone eagle]

Turret ideas:

• Mag limit for the turret. 50 ammo before needing to reload.
• Increase damage from 5 --> 10
• Lower the RPM
• Lower the health from 280 --> 240
• Make it turn faster.

[shell sonnet]

lights already complain about getting shredded by it if they dont catch it right away
so unless you nerf dps even more, that wont go over well

even disregarding that, it sounds like it would mainly make it even worse for not much benefit in return

[lone eagle]

Me and my teamates ran triple guardian turret, and absolutly shreded most people on cashouts

[shell sonnet]

and?

[lone eagle]

We won

I still think it needs some reworks tho

[shell sonnet]

i dont wanna put words in your mouth

does that mean you want it nerfed?

[sudden pewter]

Turret was a bad idea for this style of game. But because it’s been here since the beginning (when Embark was trying different things and experimenting) it can’t be removed

[lone eagle]

rework in some way

[sudden pewter]

I don’t believe there’s a state the turret can be in where it’s both useful and Lights don’t decry it as the antichrist

[shell sonnet]

maybe ramping up in rof?

[lone eagle]

guardian turret has a 38 DPS

[grand turtle]

How are people finding the stationary tickle turret too powerful?
Its literally a bullet sponge that can scare off a light at best

[lone eagle]

New Grenade features!

• Sticky frag grenade
• Frag that detonates when it hits a surface or player.
• Sticky Gas grenade

[grand turtle]

If turret had less health but more damage, it would be more of a trap type of spec like mines rather than an annoyance that soaks bullets and tickles you.
I think that would make it worthwhile.

[sudden pewter]

Lights complain when their mobility is challenged

Having a dedicated spec to reinforce a sightline (hallway realistically) would be baller but the light hivemind would shriek in response

[shell sonnet]

also kills them faster if they happen to run into its los, will get complaints

[lone eagle]

one goo gun and its over

[grand turtle]

I legit saw a post that said mines need to be nerfed, because lights cannot be bothered to look around.
At what point is it a joke my man

[lone eagle]

I just love mine loadout as a heavy

[sudden pewter]

I saw this

Handicap type shit

[slow linden]

It should keep those counters but honestly triple its stats and give it rockets

[shell sonnet]

i mean, same argument was used back in the day and the devs listened to it
but at least then was more justifiable because mines 1-shot light and we had more of them

[lone eagle]

why are people crying about cl-40 needing a nerf tho. it didnt got much changed since season 7

[stiff vine]

lights cant be bothered to look down? THEY'RE THE SAME HIGHET AS THE MINE AND CANT BE BOTHERED TO LOOK DOWN!!!

[slow linden]

Whoever posted that needs to die ngl

[shell sonnet]

self damage reduction with jumping is a bit stupid and getting close doesnt work as well as counterplay as it probably should

[grand turtle]

Yes, explosive mines did receive a nerf already
It was 140 damage, so not really a 1 shot though
I think it was more about the possibility to instantly stack 2 mines and delete a medium

[full bison]

coool

[shell sonnet]

no im talking like way back

mines used to do like 160 or something

im not saying theyre in need of a nerf rn

[stiff vine]

they deal 120 now so its possible to 1 shot when stacking or using c4

[grand turtle]

I was not playing back then I suppose

[slow linden]

Skill issue,thing is annoying sure but it feels like shit to use,it's inconsistent due to its tiny damage stages and it's projectiles are too slow,any light dumb enough to get hit twice by it needs to put the fries in the bag ngl

[slow linden]

It's a slug shotgun with extra unnecessary steps

[full bison]

wooooowwww

[stiff vine]

KS but explosive

[stiff vine]

33 more messages to go

[full bison]

13

[stiff vine]

peak

[slow linden]

KS but explosive and bullets are much slower, and have drop

[full bison]

18

[grand turtle]

They can be placed in a smart way like behind closed doors or on walls near an entrance so its hard to spot them, but if the only downside of the class is low hp, then people really are trying hard to nullify that downside.

It just so happens that high mobility also makes you more prone to traps like that.

[full bison]

23

[wraith orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/engineer-tf2-engineer-gif-24709371 aww, it doesn't load :c

[full bison]

my bad chat im just tryna unlock the creat the voice chat

[slow linden]

Embed fail : (

[full bison]

yah

[wraith orchid]

But that sounds suspiciously like engineer's turret

[slow linden]

That's what I was going for

[mellow cedar]

Did they shadow nerf the sword or something? it feels so much slower using it than I remember

[stiff vine]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-yakuza-koichi-adachi-ryu-ga-gotoku-yakuza7-gif-20826121

[stiff vine]

when was the last time you used it?

[mellow cedar]

Like a week and a half ago

[slow linden]

They removed a bunch of melee tech

[stiff vine]

nothing happened

last patch for sword was a buff that happened last season

[slow linden]

After nerfing it into the ground

[stiff vine]

rightfully so

[slow linden]

I'm kinda half and half on that

[shell sonnet]

oh, that already happened?

[stiff vine]

you cant argue that 140 damage lunges are a good thing

[mellow cedar]

Weird maybe I’m just getting bad servers or I’m washed

[slow linden]

I like when melee is strong,it needs to be strong,and while I don't much care for sword, dagger and cloak were gutted for zero reason at all

[wraith orchid]

it's fine, I obliterate them with my spear still

[stiff vine]

sword lunges turn the light into a bullet

[slow linden]

I hate when they nerf melee no matter what it is

[slow linden]

They can still do that tho,but now sword is just a mindless basic attack spamming weapon,there's nothing interesting about it anymore

[stiff vine]

its a bit more counterable for people who dont aimbot and/or have a job

[slow linden]

Sledge got gutted,spear is next after years of neglect because embark hates melee

[stiff vine]

spear rework will make the M2 spin completely stationary

[slow linden]

I main goo flame so I kinda shit on light melee even before the nerfs,with every melee nerf the opponents i like fighting get weaker

[slow linden]

That would be so ass

[wraith orchid]

eh it's fine, just jump sprint crouch m2, then taunt cancel, for optimal movement, easy

[stiff vine]

now full serious they will definitely patch(remove) spin cancel

[wraith orchid]

it doesn't have a lot going for it embarks, please (it's fine, I got to plat 4 without learning the cancel, I can go higher without it...)

[stiff vine]

love me a spear

[slow linden]

Embark should stop removing tech

[oblique crypt]

I never played sword much before the nerf, but I've picked it up recently and it's super fun.

[trail meteor]

Looks like we might get an uzi for season 9

[willow musk]

Was that a new gun in the trailer? That looked like a different shap

[willow musk]

Uzi on medium or heavy would go hard

Ig light could get it too but I feel like the slower but stronger smg thing fits the other two classes more

[trail meteor]

Its in the teaser

[willow musk]

Could be a Tommy, they both have that top nub thing

I’m with you tho I would love an Uzi, it’s in my top 3 most wanted

[trail meteor]

I saw the stock of it

Its similar to the stock of the burst pistol

Ifs its just another m11 drone weapon then ima quit the game

[willow musk]

Lmaooo

[proper socket]

new player here, what is counter to m11 apart from keep distance/switch to shotgun to deal damage before they kill you

[sonic zephyr]

light has the lowest ammount of hp. kill him

[stoic garden]

kill him

[trail meteor]

M11 has the mega knight of this game

If I catch you using it, I will find you

[proper socket]

useless advice like this is why 80% of new players leave btw, be better

[stoic garden]

oh by the way, yea it's just keeping your distance, setting up traps near possible entrances, expect their arrival and killing them since 90% of weapons kill light faster than light kills other classes

another thing you can do with burst damage weapons if engaging at a distance is just peek shooting

[trail meteor]

Im not even new its just hours of loss after loss to the mindless horseflies who use dash and m11

[wide onyx]

M11 isn't even a big deal anymore. The sweat lights all use 93r.

[trail meteor]

It is now

[trail meteor]

It made a comeback for some unknown reason, and I want it to go back to its cave

[wide onyx]

I haven't seen it that much in particular. Mainly just 93rs and DBs

[trail meteor]

I miss the 93r sweats, they were at least bearable, but I have played 5 matches today, and every one has had at least one m11 drone in it

[minor pewter]

Does it look like the guy on the right is holding a new weapon in the s9 image?

[old flame]

looks like arn to me

[hardy dust]

Its not much different from any other gun, so just keeping distance like you mentioned, or simply taking an equal duel is usually enough

[tiny glen]

melee dmg 40 right?

[hardy dust]

Just make sure to not get caught on an off angle/seperate from your team

[hardy dust]

Yes

[tiny glen]

the shotgun that breaks wall is?

[hardy dust]

Ks23

[tiny glen]

ks needs a 5 dmg buff

[hardy dust]

M26 matter can technically do it decently fast but it takes 2 mags

Ks23 only needs 2 shots

[tiny glen]

yeah

[hardy dust]

All the other shotguns take like 2 minutes to break a wall

[tiny glen]

1 shot+ winch+melee =150

[hardy dust]

10 damage buff and winch getting removed/reworked 🙏

[tiny glen]

what gadgets do must db dash lights run?

[hardy dust]

Depends a lot, I can say what's probably best but I doubt that's what most people run

[tiny glen]

which is

[hardy dust]

Probably just the meta light gadgets, gateway, glitch, goo, h+. There is a case for vanish too ig.

[tiny glen]

i dont like vanish glitch h+

[hardy dust]

But db lights tend to be more selfish gameplay wise, so I doubt they'll run stuff like glitch and h+

[tiny glen]

i was using breach and sonar and goo

or the nullificatir instead of breaxh

is dagger on console harder then dagger on pc

[hardy dust]

Yea

Since you need to flick back, and its a lot hard on console than pc

[fiery thunder]

Yeah, by a mile

I think there’s a thing on PlayStation controllers where sliding on the trackpad-thing can do a 180, so maybe that might help

[hard falcon]

Any ideas with what I should pair akimbo with? I’m running dome, rpg, and anti gravity cube. Sometimes change depending on the map

[slow linden]

Giga buff dual blades

[slim crest]

PLEEEEASE, I BEG OF YOU EMBARK.

BUFF DUAL BLADES, AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!

[fiery thunder]

Honestly, current build is fine. Grav Cube is more a niche, so maybe better to run C4 or Heal Emitter, maybe

[winged compass]

buff turret now

[robust belfry]

they do not need a buff

[warm kindle]

When are they bringing back thermals

[slow linden]

They do,they're ass

[heady ore]

WHEN WILL LIGHT GET A NADE LAUNCHER?

[gloomy trout]

Cool

[spring spear]

in terms of balance they do but no one wants dual blades to be good that'd be miserable to play against just like turret

[jade pumice]

Will we ever get a new weapon for light

[plucky spade]

Of course if you have severe skill issue

Incoming hurr durr i have 20k hoursin game

Mfs in here acting like melee on medium is any good

[tiny glen]

yo

[tiny glen]

they need a deflect rework and a 3rd strike buff not necessarily dmg tho

[tiny glen]

light shoulnt get a granade launcher, it should get a big pistol like a desert eagle

[hard falcon]

Thanks for the recommendation, I usually go anti gravity because i find it more consistent than a c4 for stalling cashouts

[outer crow]

why minigun has so shit damage bruh

[hard falcon]

It’s probably just the ttk of this game

[outer crow]

probably 🤷‍♂️

came back to game only because of it

[hard falcon]

Haha

[outer crow]

mediums/lights have so crazy dps

with so crazy mobillity

[hardy dust]

It has a ton of spread so you gotta be close up to your opponents

It has a really fast ttk but falls off at range really hard

[outer crow]

it sucks even in close because mediums/lights just avoid it ease

considering that minigun slows down player and slows down camera rotate speed

[hardy dust]

Its a really hard weapon to use amd requires good teamwork, also not very good in the current meta

[outer crow]

they just fly around like crazy

[hardy dust]

Although I think its gonna be better next season since poke and winch are probably gonna get nerfs, which leads it to being stronger

[sudden pewter]

Minigun is fine. It doesn't need any buffs

[outer crow]

if it was fine - it wouldnt be so easy to put it on all fours

[hardy dust]

The best buff it could get is winch being gone and poke nerfed

Which will hopefully happen 🙏

Minigun itself doesn't need anything changed

[outer crow]

medium/lights have nice ARs which have great damage output, longer damage fall and dont turn user in to TF2 turret

[hardy dust]

Play lewis if you want something like that

[outer crow]

in TF2 minigunner at least has Medic with uber

even scout there doesnt has so crazy mobillity

[outer crow]

didnt lewis heavilly changed since december 2023?

[final tree]

Right TF2 but this is the finals

[outer crow]

but they ballance heavy like it is tf2

[hardy dust]

It got some nerfs since it was really strong, now its not great but still puts in work. It just doesn't really have a niche

[outer crow]

aa no wonder....based 😂

[hardy dust]

But it basically fills this role to a tee

Long range, very similar to ar, good damage output

[final tree]

No we fucking dont bro genuinely hit ur shots😭😭✌️

[hardy dust]

Not at all

[fossil dome]

swear everything 2 shots

[final tree]

Bros aim js sucks and is using a minigun

[plucky spade]

Bro that's just cap

[indigo nexus]

It doesn’t slow down camera rotate speed.

It wins against any foe who just tries to rush you down in close quarters without taking you by surprise

[outer crow]

if it only worked that way

[indigo nexus]

Well, it does.

Simply because highest dps in the game, on the highest HP class

[outer crow]

my mistake

[outer crow]

they bypass minigun cone and easilly take down heavy

with their crazy as .... dps

[indigo nexus]

Wdym bypass minigun cone

Isn’t that just, you missing?

[sonic zephyr]

i think they mean you shooting behind cover. Something that covers your lower body already makes the minigun useless

no imagine someone headglitching

[outer crow]

they are so manouver that its very hard to hit them when they move from left to right

[outer crow]

Cone of fire

When u try to track their changed position - they already kill u

[indigo nexus]

so, missing

[wild zenith]

iirc, flicking your camera too quick increases minigun random spread

[sonic zephyr]

moving the minigun increases bloom

[indigo nexus]

Correct

[outer crow]

Swordman blocks bullets, very ballanced

[spring spear]

it has nothing to do woth skill theyre just annoying to fight lol

yes they are shit, that doesnt mean anything in this context because their design is inherently annoying

[outer crow]

Minigun needs damage buff, its the main problem of it

Currently is a joke

[spring spear]

thats not its main issue at all, its how unreliable it is due to spinup and accuracy, long reload and how immobile it makes you while using it

the fact that it has a spinup already means its not as useful as most other weapons with winch and we live in a winch meta which immediately makes it less viable

its numbers are fine but its uniqueness is ironically enough what holds it back

even then with a bunker set up it is pretty strong

honestly arguably the only weapon in heavy's arsenal that is a joke is spear pretty much everything else is viable, even flamethrower

[outer crow]

Damage is also low

[spring spear]

it really isnt, if you look at its damage in a vaccuum its extremely decent, even at longer ranges

hell if youre able to hit your shots it actually has better ttks than the m60 at certain ranges so

if you actually learn how to use the minigun youll realize damage is the least of its problems

[outer crow]

Shortly minigun has more downsides than advantages

[spring spear]

i mean sure its not the bfr sa12 or shak so its already st a disadvantage

[sonic zephyr]

the effort to make it work is far bigger than the payout

[outer crow]

Yep, thats why its shit

[outer crow]

yea - spin up is cringe sometimes

[spring spear]

yeah i mean that is just the curse of not playing the top meta guns

[sonic zephyr]

yeah but the minigun is special in that regard because its the only gun in the game which you cant run and gun with. and the fact that the slow playstyle isnt compensated with superior firepower is the issue here

[outer crow]

lights and mediums with their assault rifles just melt minigunner before he does smth

[blazing maple]

You are using it wrong then. Every gun in this game is pretty much viable even in this carbage balance situation. You need to fortify yourself like the game wants you to do

Its completely another thing how stupid that is and how bad the excperience is when you have to adapt to stupid metas

[outer crow]

yea i am using minigun wrong: I try to snipe guys from the kilometer with it 🤭

[blazing maple]

Yes, if you are in sight of sniper from kilometer away you are clearly completely wrongly positioned 😄

[grand turtle]

The worst part is when you use the gun correctly and yet it is not good.

[outer crow]

• biased/incompetent ballancing team

[indigo nexus]

In that it needs a buff maybe, dual blades might be the worst weapon in the game!

Deflection makes them theoretically usable but you’re a total sitting duck while using it, and unlike the riot shield it doesn’t really enable you to close distance. It’s basically a riot shield without the passive blocking

[indigo nexus]

Yes, but it’s the highest DPS in the game

[outer crow]

In this case - its dps doesnt help

[indigo nexus]

It’s a sustained fire weapon. DPS is the most important singular metric for its effectiveness

[outer crow]

mostly i dont reach prime of minigun! Or i melt in seconds from other 2 classes or they just run/dash away

[indigo nexus]

Well, it is a complex weapon

its main useful feature might be that it can for the most part prevent a team from making a cohesive effective push outside of cover, a lot better than any other can. Unless you need to be moving a lot in the current moment it is very hard to efficiently attack as a result without burning gadgets

[indigo nexus]

This is always so interesting to me - why would anyone think their outlook on the balance is less biased than embark’s? They have a ton of data to make fairly precise judgements on this sort of thing, we have literally nothing but our personal experiences which are subject to a slew of pragmatically unavoidable biases

Meta-wise there is some rough data about what works and what doesn’t, but it only applies to the highest tier of players

[rose niche]

Minigun goes hard into positioning. Its effective if you can get ppl to come to you and your other teammates are playing around the big scary gun. Tho tbh I DO wish it broke thru walls a little faster

[earnest otter]

They should lowkey add a gadget for like heavy or light that gives you a gas mask with thermal vision

[slow linden]

M79 thumper?

[slow linden]

If everything was good nothing would be annoying,turret can't be annoying no matter how strong they make it due to the ease of disabling it

[spring spear]

that is absolutely not true, the reason turret and dual blades are annoying is due to their unique mechanics, not because they arent balanced well

[shell sonnet]

being annoying is subjective
some already think it is rn

[slow linden]

I like playing against them you're just easily annoyed ig

[spring spear]

the reason both are acceptable right now is because they are shit so theyre easy to play around, if they were good they would 100% be miserable

[slow linden]

And I don't want just them to be good,I want the entire weapon roster to be good,so many weapons are left behind,mgl has needed a rework or a buff for ages but the balance team is scared to touch it

Weapons being intentionally shit to the point of being throw picks is worse than if they were good

[spring spear]

and im not saying otherwise I just think the people that want everything to be good don't actually know what that implies
imagine if riot shield, dagger, dual blades, flamethrower were on the same level as stuff like akm, m60 hell even repeater or bfr, this game would be miserable to play

[slow linden]

It wouldn't

[spring spear]

it would, why would anyone pick any weapon that requires any mechanical skill if you get the same result just picking the flamethrower

[slow linden]

Flamethrower does require skill of you combo with it,Flamethrower is fine as is,if it could get any changes a damage buff would not be it

[spring spear]

thats what a perfectly balanced roster would mean, every weapon could get you the same result, meaning there would never be a reason to pick the high skill weapons

[spring spear]

i am not saying flamethrower is or isnt fine, i am saying if it was on the same tier as every other weapons it would be miserable to go against

[slow linden]

And it would be fune

[slow linden]

Flamethrower is balanced just high skill ceiling,low skill entry

[spring spear]

for 5 minutes and then we'd have the same issue we had in s1 where the game was 'fun' but there was no point in sinking any considerable amount of hours in it

[spring spear]

i am not arguing about flamethrower's balance that has nothing to do with wht im saying you can swap the word flamethrower with any other low skill floor weapon the point stays the same

[slow linden]

Idk I think as long as a game is fun I'd play it

Fuck the competitive scene,fuck the top 1% of players

[spring spear]

that is what everyone thinks but with no depth there's no reason to sink hours into a game, specially a pvp one, and if you put every weapon in the same tier then there is no reason to ever use anything but the low skill floor weapons

because again, why would you pick anything that requires more effort for the same result

[slow linden]

I want the whimsy back,a gun will always be better than a melee no matter how they buff melee

[spring spear]

this isnt even about competitiveness, people come back to pvp games because of skill ceillings, there is always something new to learn

even the more casual playerbase does this and it is precisely why s1 had such a massive drop of players

[slow linden]

All of the weapons being usable wouldn't erase said skill ceiling

[spring spear]

that is once again not what i am saying

[slow linden]

It sounds like it

[spring spear]

again if every weapon was on the same tier list, if the entire roster was balanced, why would you use something with a higher skill floor when the result is the exact same as if you were using a lower skill floor weapon

because that is what it means for every weapon to be perfectly balanced, every weapon would need to be able to yield the same results

so why would anyone use the harder weapons when they yield the same result as the easier weapons

[slow linden]

I would use it because I wanted to use it,because I don't give a fuck about the meta,because I go outside,I'd see a weapon I like,and I would use it,this is the dumbest question I have ever seen here

[spring spear]

and why would you want to use it

[slow linden]

Because it looks cool,or functions cool

[spring spear]

then you would do as everyone did in s1, again
youd use a weapon for a little bit, think its fun, and once you start learning it realize you're getting the same results as an easier to use weapon, and go back to it

again we have literally seen this happen in this game's lifespan

[slow linden]

I will use a weapon regardless of it being viable or not,I don't care about what is easiest

[spring spear]

yes, for a bit before going back to something more versatile

[slow linden]

I never use ars,I never use smgs,I rarely use poke,i do not care what is easiest

[spring spear]

...if you arent using any of those youre arguably using the roster of weapons that is easier actually

if you arent using any of the ars, smgs, or any of the poke guns then what is left other than melee or gimmicky stuff like flamethrower? v9s and minigun?

[slow linden]

Ars and smgs are literally the simplest and easiest weapons to balance and use,poke is just point and click and the enemy is dead,I know this because I used it for a little

[spring spear]

"point and click" is such a shortsighted way of watering it down specially when so much of the skill in this game comes from pointing in the first place lol

and i hope you aren't trying to argue that the automatics are easier to get a mechanical grasp of over stuff like flamethrower or cl40

[slow linden]

Revolver,throwing knives,lewis,any shotgun,yes your weapon examples

[spring spear]

dude most of those are poke and sustain which is the same as smgs and ars...

[slow linden]

Particularly I main minigun and flamethrower

[spring spear]

...minigun is sustain too, it is the same as most of the ARs, lmgs and SMGs

[slow linden]

When I say poke I mean something that can be used effectively from across the map like repeater or sniper,though I occasionally use sniper I'm using it like a shotgun I don't much care for crane camping

[spring spear]

yyyeah that is revolver still, its damage falloff might be harsh but you can still use it from across the map poking without an issue with the only real contest being other weapons that perform well at long range

[slow linden]

Any automatic is sustain,yes,but ars and smgs are much better at it and far too simple

[spring spear]

theyre better at it but not because they're simpler than the minigun lol it's because they allow you to be more mobile

and have no spin up so they can start firing immediately

[slow linden]

Revolver is funny and again you can't really use it from across the map unless you're fighting a sniper light

[spring spear]

you can use it from across the map without an issue what?

literally what prevents the revolver from being used across the map outside of its damage falloff that i already addressed by saying it can be contested by weapons with better range

[slow linden]

It's falloff is to severe,you only have enough damage in one cylinder to kill a light

Revolver isn't for using from afar,but you can use it on lights

[spring spear]

you have an entire team that's going to be targetting the same target as you, you dont need to contest long range fights with the revolver by yourself, that's just playing dumb
again, you can use the revolver just fine from long range, its only a bad idea when youre contesting other long range weapons

[slow linden]

You're not beating a repeater and you're not beating a titan at range with revolver

[slow linden]

That's great,the rest of my team also typically runs gimmick stuff

[spring spear]

no but this seems kind of disingenous, you arent gonna be beating long range weapons on a 1v1 fight but if you are contesting a 1v1 fight at long range at all with the revolver you're playing bad, this doesnt mean the revolver cant be used as a poke weapon (in fact that is its best use) it just means you don't know how to play poke

this is like trying to contest a repeater at long range with the model, of course youre gonna lose

[slow linden]

I use revolver as a rush weapon I don't poke

[spring spear]

if you are using a weapon suboptimally then that is entirely on you and besides the point

[slow linden]

Idk running in and 3 tapping the heavy is a pretty good use of the weapon

[spring spear]

yeah but this doesnt happen unless youre playing against people who just installed so

[slow linden]

No,high skill low skill it still 3 taps

[spring spear]

yes, if the heavy is aiming without hands, otherwise most if not all of his weapons out damage the revolver

and will kill you faster than you can kill him
this is quite literally something that only happens against bad players

[slow linden]

And I hate to say this as a heavy main but a lot of us have terrible movement and situational awareness

[slow linden]

Revolver can kill a heavy really fast with headshots,faster than a heavy can react usually,especially If I third party

[spring spear]

revolver cannot kill a heavy faster than a heavy can kill a medium specially not with headshots
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/htmlview?pli=1

this only works against sa12, mgl and flamethrower, and thats assuming they dont use one of their many gadgets/specs to assist in the kill

youre still gonna die to the sa12 heavy because he's gonna winch you anyway

[slow linden]

Heavys not that strong,I play him and I fight him,I can and will continue to 3 tap the heavy and push with my team

[spring spear]

heavy IS that strong, again, youre just playing against bad players

[slow linden]

No one's that lucky to only find bad players when they use a particular weapon

[spring spear]

we literally have mathematical proof of it, ifyou are consistently rushing in and 3shotting a heavy then that heavy is, objectively, bad, the only way that happens is if the team itself is bad, but again, at this point we arent talking about balance, we're talking about skill levels

[spring spear]

dude the majority of players in all games are bad lol it is much easier to consistently go against bad players in not just this game but ANY game than consistently go against good players

SPECIALLY if you arent playing relatively high level ranked which is usually where the better players will be

[slow linden]

I don't play ranked

[outer crow]

gas mask is must have yea

[spring spear]

i figured, again you're arguing something that is mathematically impossible with the only possibility of it happening being a difference in skill level ie. the heavy being bad

[outer crow]

but to make it ballanced and not make gas grenade useless - it would reduce gas damage up to 50%

[slow linden]

They better give him gas mines too

[shell sonnet]

and how would they visually represent it?
we have tons of (payed for) gas mask skins that we cant just remove

[earnest otter]

That would be cool

[shell sonnet]

also, imo gas mask is just a bad idea, doesnt do enough

[outer crow]

Idk - its their jog not mine

[slow linden]

An icon above their name and healtbar?

[spring spear]

theyd do like they have done with themral vision and just not visualize it at all which is inherently not good design
it'd also be such a niche use gadget that is redundant due to fire existing

[earnest otter]

Well I think the gas mask could just visually cover the whole face

[slow linden]

I've seen plenty of ruby badges stomping casual

[shell sonnet]

like every other gas mask?

[spring spear]

yes, its not like good players are forced to play ranked and nothing else

[earnest otter]

Im talking about characters with gas masks already like the gadget will have its own design and cover charecters face including their gas masks

[shell sonnet]

yeah, pretty much

hope its readability wouldnt be horrendous

[spring spear]

it's just a bad idea in general, it'd just add gadget bloat

[slow linden]

They should stay there,they wanted to play ranked,they don't get to enjoy the game anymore,most of them are streamers they should be getting clips in ranked

[shell sonnet]

yeah

[spring spear]

No, people have the right to play any gamemode they want regardless of their skill level
most of them are in fact NOT streamers, also

[slow linden]

Idk if they're as good as you say they are,I've won against a ruby team in world tour so they must not be that good,they were definitely good mechanically but they weren't particularly clever

We just kinda camped and played weird angles and won

Spammed mines too

[spring spear]

A lot of ruby players are boosted or get there through griefing I've never said they're good thats something you implied when you said theyre the ones that chose to play ranked and not enjoy the game

You tried to say ruby players shouldnt play in casual gamemodes which is a really dumb statement to make

[slow linden]

Boosted? Griefing? So they should be banned? They definitely don't belong where they are now

[spring spear]

Why would they be banned because they get griefed in? Embark literally has said 3rd partying and griefing is part of the main gamemode?

Do you know what griefing is

[slow linden]

Just like how saying if all weapons were balanced no one would use a more difficult weapon is a dumb statement to make?

[spring spear]

You can say it's dumb but I applied actual logic to it whereas all you said is "id use it because its fun" right before saying you dont use over 50% of the game's weapon roster anyway

[slow linden]

It's scummy but not particularly unsportsmanlike I was referring mainly to boosting

[spring spear]

Boosting sucks sure but good luck moderating that

[slow linden]

Idk you made a stupid statement that perfect balance would kill the game,that "fun" is somehow bad,you said that,those are your words

[spring spear]

I have never even said any of those things, I said perfect balance would make the game miserable to play because it implies every weapon would yield similar results regardless of the skill required or put into them

[slow linden]

You know what game is perfectly balanced apart from one gun and hasn't died in the 9 years it's been out?

Titanfall 2

[spring spear]

I didn't even argue for fun whatsoever I just think we have a very clear example of low skill floor pushing long-term players away with S1

[spring spear]

looks pretty dead to me

[slow linden]

You cannot measure the players on private servers,those are all ddossing bots

I play on console and have no trouble finding a match,always see new names

[spring spear]

If you say so but if a game requires extra effort to play online then if anything that's a guarante it'll have even less players than steam says

[spring spear]

You also can't meassure how alive a game is off this either, and thats not mentioning the fact that theres no way to know if those console players arent bots aswell

generally speaking pc has longevity over consoles when it comes to these things, a game that hasn't been updated in years usually has more players on pc but again it's not like we can actually know for sure since playernumbers aren't released

But I mean if the fact that it hasnt got an update in ages isnt indicative of a finished development cycle idk what is

[slow linden]

I kill em,I invite them to parties,we chill,they're real players,titan fall has no bot system,you can't just get in a match with ai

[spring spear]

You don't need to have a bot system to have bot players and again this is in no way a good meassure of playerbase health

[slow linden]

The core community still plays,and again this is a paid game were talking about,it still has players because it's a balanced shooter,it's not growing because of lack of updates,updates grow a game,new guns,new gadgets,new events,all this game needs is perfect balance and new good content

The events are here,the events are good for the most part

But I want new interesting weapons and gadgets to play with,I don't want another sidegrade ar or smg that doesn't get used even by the people that like those weapons

[spring spear]

id argue the reason it has players is because of its uniqueness regardless of its balance but that is completely unrelated to what we were saying
from a development viewpoint, the game IS dead, its development has finished
as for a community standpoint sure you can argue console ahs more players than pc but i doubt the number is that high
idk what else youre talking about, i feel like yoiure just jumping from topic to topic

[slow linden]

And it leaned into its uniqueness when it had funding,the finals seems to be pushing away from it's uniqueness and trying to become a regular shooter,at which point why not just go play cod,the wonderbread of shooters, bland, safe, boring

[spring spear]

i guess but i feel like thats a different topic altogether

[slow linden]

The weapon balance is quite deeply connected with the issue

[placid slate]

Games only really dead if you literally can't play it

[spring spear]

i share the sentiment but most people don't and if we have to get into personal specifics we're never gonna reach an end

[slow linden]

The finals was all about gimmicky shit,it was all about nukes it was about goo ship,it was all about whimsy,but then the comp players complained,a small fraction of the player base,and it all got removed

And the funny weapons that dared to be comp viable for a fraction of a season would get nerfed

[spring spear]

dude everyone complained about nukes we didnt even have a comp scene back then

[placid slate]

I don't think a small fraction of the playerbase complained about getting their entire team 1 shot from 40m away, or anybody complaining about goo ship, that shit only disappeared because embark updated goo

[spring spear]

comp players also loved weird tech like grapple nade to travel far distances and didnt complain about stuff like that and embark removed it anyway

[slow linden]

And on red barrels I would agree,but to not even be able to get a c4 flowerpot kill anymore because the flowerpot flies sideways is a bit nonsensical

[spring spear]

blaming comp players for embark's decisions is just silly when there wasnt even a comp scene until what, s3-4?

[slow linden]

The top 1% of players exists in any game even without a home

[placid slate]

3 probably since ranked created a vacuum for cashout scrims

[spring spear]

sure but existing doesnt mean having a scene and with no scene itd be hard for embark to listen to them considering how small of a minority theyd be
remember back then we didnt even have ruby so at worst all they could listen to were all the people in diamond 1, which back then was way easier to get due to how RS gain/loss worked

[placid slate]

Plus it's been proven already that embark listens to hypercasuals 9/10 times anyway

[slow linden]

Embark listens to them now,they're why Sledge was nerfed instead of winch,because Sledge dared to have synergy with winch and the 1% don't want winch nerfed too bad or removed,Sledge was nerfed

[placid slate]

Sledge was nerfed because of data, not complaints.

Are people incapable of reading patchnotes

[spring spear]

what no comp players were asking for winch nerfs not sledge nerfs its the casual playerbase that wanted sledge nerfed
and embark listened to neither anyway

[placid slate]

Sledge was top 3 in every gamemode but TA in kills, damage, and win rate

[spring spear]

i dont understand how you can say 1% of the top playerbase doesnt want winch nerfed when that is like, the most requested balance change at a competitive level

[slow linden]

I assume things are nerfed off of complaints,but nerfing off of data is even dumber

[placid slate]

I mean if we grafted the same data onto a different weapon, would you be saying the same?

[slow linden]

The playerbase's opinion is all that matters,and to nerf something based off not even one person's opinion is silly

[slow linden]

For the most part yes,but in the case of p90 because I am admittedly biased and have a hatred for all who use it no

[spring spear]

the issue is a lot of the playerbase doesnt actually have a grasp on how the game works and if embark listened to them blindly youd get stuff like cl40 or sword nerfe- oh wait

[placid slate]

True, feed all P90 users to a woodchipper

[spring spear]

the last few seasons have actually been great for balance due to the fact that theyre finally taking into account comp players

[slow linden]

Boil their families in tar in front of them

[spring spear]

only issue is that this season hasnt had balance changes at all

[placid slate]

CL40 uptick only happened because the cerberus managed to gather the brainlet mediums into 1 group and have them hop from weapon to weapon

[slow linden]

Cl40 and sword nerfs were bad,but weren't you just arguing that if everything was balanced certain things would be miserable to play against? : )

[spring spear]

yes, i dont see how either statement contradicts eachother

[placid slate]

Not really, besides sledge, sledge bad, spear good 👍

[spring spear]

unless youre saying cl40 nerf was needed to not make it miserable to play against which just means you're arguing that casual players shouldnt be listened to

[slow linden]

The cl40 and sword were balanced,the community found them miserable to play against and embark nerfed them,meaning you got what you wanted,you aren't allowed to call those bad nerfs

[placid slate]

Cl40 neef happened in order to get the lazy meds to fuck off the weapon, which unfortunately led to them taking the riot shield when it got a pittance of buffs leading to a bunch of nerfs, again

[spring spear]

that literally has nothing to do with what i said
if balance was perfect the game was miserable, i said this, yes
i did not imply in any way shape or form that either of those nerfs were justified in any way
therefore i have no clue what youre trying to say unless youre saying, once again, that the community, which is at least 95% casual, shouldnt be listened to
i did not at any point say those nerfs were good in any way

i quite literally did not get what i wanted

[placid slate]

It's funny how the most recent sword changes made it both miserable to play, and to play against.

[spring spear]

yup

[slow linden]

Sword and cl40 were perfect and were nerfed for it,no those must be good nerfs especially if you said "if everything was perfectly balanced some things would be miserable to play against" well what happens when somethings miserable to play against,unfortunately they get nerfed

[placid slate]

Mfs decided that the fantasy of the human bullet should be shot and replaced with m1 spam

[spring spear]

what cl40 was awful it was such a shit weapon and it got nerfed even further

if anything you are agreeing with me now that if everything was perfectly balanced this game would be miserable

because cl40 wasnt even good and people still wanted it nerfed

[slow linden]

I agree,it's an inconsistent piece of shit and damage stages on explosives killed it

[spring spear]

you are literally saying that by popular opinion i am right but that doesnt mean i consider those changes good in any way lol

[placid slate]

Instead of nerfing med weapons we should just ban the people in the path of least resistance bandwagon

Actual best way to solve balance woes

[slow linden]

If I hit you with a grenade I want you to take full damage unless you're completely outside the damage radius,otherwise what's the point of those outer damage stages just nerf the explosion radius don't give us nerfs that basically are the same thing and just make it unpleasant and awkward to use

Damage stages were a horrible idea for all things except maybe the rpg,and I'm on the fence about that one

[spring spear]

i dont know im just confused

you want them to listen to the majority of the playerbase instead of the top 1% comp players
but the majority of the playerbase are casuals and the casuals are the ones that wanted cl40 nerfed

[slow linden]

Agreed,kill them all

[spring spear]

like no one in comp wanted the cl40 nerfed that thing is so weak

so should they just not listen to the majority of the playerbase then?

[slow linden]

Dumb nerfs come from all outside sources,there is no right answer besides perfect balance

[placid slate]

They should listen to me, then we would have more spear heavies than sledge heavies

[spring spear]

but you literally said they should listen to the playerbase and the playerbase clearly doesnt want perfect balance

[slow linden]

And perfect balance can only come from within embark,they should stop listening to us entirely and just make the game that they want to make and balance everything perfectly

[spring spear]

so like why would they even achieve this

[spring spear]

i mean that is what theyre currently doing, they are the ones that wanted to push esports and competitiveness

[slow linden]

I said the playerbase's opinion matters more than a small fraction at the top,I'd rather embark do all the balancing rather than balancing around so many different sources and being pulled in so many contradictory directions

[slow linden]

And they're going in a better direction for balance than they've ever been in,but perfection is still so far away

[spring spear]

but theyve only just recently started listening to the small fraction at the top what youre saying they shouldnt do what youre praising them for doing

[placid slate]

If they listened to me we would have perfect balance, except for sledge, that would be slightly less viable and more neglected than spear

[slow linden]

Relax friend,Sledge should have its day as well,all melees should

[placid slate]

Sledge had its 7 seasons, 2 years of spear is justified

[slow linden]

I agree entirely

[slow linden]

There's no need to nerf it,they should both be viable

I prefer spear over Sledge and I say they should both be good

[placid slate]

Where did I say nerf, I just said spear should be strictly better as punishment

Evil ass cavemen deserve it

[slow linden]

Better how

[placid slate]

Murder shit better

[slow linden]

Sledge goes back to prenerf,spear gets giga buffed?

[placid slate]

Rebind spin cancel to m2, after the most recent change I've concluded spin cancel is better than 1 spin per

[placid slate]

No

They don't get to be happy

They get to be that miserable fuck from that two cake meme

Blinded by their own greed and lust

[slow linden]

Idk breaching capability means Sledge would always be better than spear unless they nerfed the damage,which is a bad idea

[placid slate]

Envy even

[placid slate]

Spear would just kill better

Wouldn't matter if the sledge can open the wall if the spear is already done cleaning house by the time it reaches a person

Plus Spear has the moral highground also

[slow linden]

It already kinda does,way more people get away from me with Sledge than spear

[placid slate]

That's because they don't see enough spear

[slow linden]

Idk,the longer weapon will always be more effective on faster prey

[placid slate]

Spear also requires more effort to use, and as such should be naturally better

[slow linden]

Sledge is for defense and camping,spears better for ambushes and pursuit

[placid slate]

You be saying that like Spear ain't wiping the mfs stealing your box

Spear is a defensive weapon too

M1 is good for chase, m2 is good for the defensive

[slow linden]

Jumping on a team's head with spear spin counts as an ambush

[placid slate]

And a defense

You can use spin to 3 peek and punish rushes

[slow linden]

Sledge can drop cashout

[placid slate]

I have the raw ttk numbers for the m1 btw if you want them for further context

[placid slate]

2 of heavys meta gadgets do that, 1 of which is its primary purpose

[slow linden]

True,but you can't deny the utility of saving a slot or bypassing APS

[placid slate]

APS doesn't delete stationary items

[slow linden]

It does delete thrown c4 and rockets from below

[placid slate]

Why is your c4 not preplaced

That's like 99% of the c4s you do on cashouts

[slow linden]

I'm attacking not defending

[placid slate]

When the fuck are you finding a cashout with an APS directly on top it, placed by the team not stealing

[slow linden]

A smart team that knows an aps cash box cannot be moved

[placid slate]

Because most sane people would have it guard a choke or a key position, not the box on defense

[placid slate]

Yes it can

[slow linden]

The aps eats anything that can move it

Unless you have a goo gun that thing isn't moving any time soon

[placid slate]

If only there was a hard meta spec that every melee weapon uses

[placid slate]

It eats goo too btw

[slow linden]

Winch shouldn't even be in the game

[placid slate]

Winch should be exclusive to spear to piss people off

[slow linden]

I have 30 goo balls it can only eat 4

[placid slate]

20

[slow linden]

I was accounting for reloading during a firefight

[placid slate]

40 then

[slow linden]

30 is enough for most fights

[placid slate]

In conclusion: Winch should be exclusive to spear to piss people off that use different heavy weapons, which would be funny as shit

Spear is a healthier weapon than sledge thanks to its attack speed promoting multi hit kills, which sledge suffers if the same is applied to it due to its attack speed, causing issues

[slow linden]

Winch should be removed,spears the only fun thing to use it with

In fact it was the first thing I used winch with,they came out together they were practically made for one another

[placid slate]

Spin cancel as of last patch is now the more favourable contender to the spin rework than 1 spin per input thanks to the m1s after cancels now existing

M1s need to be looked into so they aren't overshadowed by m2 combos

Rn it's 0.46/0.56/0.9 per 3 hits, which promotes ignoring the 3rd m1

[slow linden]

Sledge has the opposite problem right now

[placid slate]

3rd m1 should have its speed adjusted to follow the same pattern as the other m1s leaving it at either 0.56 or 0.66 second attack speed

Making a full m1 chain less of a detriment in situations where applicable

[slow linden]

Agreed

Duel blades needs that same change

[placid slate]

Damage issues are solved by combos and aiming you spin hits ( yes the spin needs aim for optimal ttk)

No m1 or m2 damage buffs are needed, 1st m1 getting +5 damage would be nice and stop people with OCD from having a heart attack

[ember coral]

what is the best light weapon for all maps

[outer crow]

light machine guns

[placid slate]

93r

[outer crow]

also double barrel

[slow linden]

Arn or m11 it's personal preference

[placid slate]

M11 got no range

[ember coral]

i like the lh1 but it needs a buff

[slow linden]

Doesn't need range it insta kills

[placid slate]

Recoil or do your fingers Hury from spam clicking?

[ember coral]

recoil and damage

[thick holly]

From what I've seen it's in a fairly healthy spot. I'm not sure though I don't play light

[slow linden]

It's fine

[ember coral]

not really damage but the damage dropoff

[placid slate]

SR needs a buff more than the lh1

[slow linden]

Agreed

[placid slate]

You think 50m is bad, fucking sniper drops at 40

[slow linden]

I want irons for the sr84

[placid slate]

I want it to actually be a good long ranged weapon

[slow linden]

No reflexes no other sights,just scopes and irons

[placid slate]

Notice how there's always a dmr meta but no snipers?

[slow linden]

The only two right ways to use a sniper rifle

[placid slate]

They absolutely botched the weapon if the metas alway long ranged bit it's never used

[slow linden]

Yea

[ember coral]

acc ya bro how tf does it take 3 shots to kill a medium

[spring spear]

93r for overall versatility, arn for long range

[placid slate]

It was almost 2 but mfs freaked out so the change never came

[ember coral]

i like the arn

[spring spear]

m11 is good specially if youre soloq and you cant trust your teammates to make use of your gateways/h+ infuser/glitch

[placid slate]

Use it, you like it, and it's very good, best combination possible

[slow linden]

I forgot about the 93r,it's one of my favorite pistols in gaming but it's just so boring and toxic feeling in the finals to use and to fight

[thick holly]

I'm gunna learn how to play dagger and sledge hammer so I can be master of the melees

[slow linden]

A noble goal,master goo flame afterwards

[placid slate]

Go learn spear, you'll be a better hammer after

[thick holly]

True, I never considered this

I like the way you think my friend

[placid slate]

Because unlike hammer, spear requires thought and an active neuron to use

[slow linden]

And you,you should master goo flame too

[placid slate]

Nah, flamer got boring after the 3rd wt win

[thick holly]

Honestly flamethrower just seems like it would be boring to use

[slow linden]

On it's own it's boring,with goo gun it's fun

It's the perfect combo weapon

[placid slate]

I'd just play deagles or mingun if I wanted to use goo

[slow linden]

Mesh flame and winch flame is Uber boring I despise people who use them

[thick holly]

I should also go back to playing dual blades a bit

[hardy dust]

Winch flame is boring af but mesh flame can go crazy if you play it right

[slow linden]

Flamethrower should only ever be used with goo,otherwise what's the point of using a fire weapon if you can't goo combo with it

[hardy dust]

Goo flame is the most fun though, but flamer is just boring in general

[slow linden]

Mesh flame is the meta,the meta is usually most boring

[hardy dust]

Yeah but you're playing flamer, so its not gonna be near meta no matter what

Mesh actually has depth to it unlike winch so it can be pretty fun

[slow linden]

Goo flame is the most fun I've ever had in a new game

[thick holly]

I was playing cloak dagger yesterday, got some pretty funny kills

[placid slate]

Playing angry birds with the enemy isnt the greatest thing you've ever done?

[placid slate]

Why the fuck would you use the spec that tells people to turn around with dagger

[thick holly]

I wanted to try it lol

I was just playing quick cash so I could change off any time

[slow linden]

I like goo locking people and burning them to ashes with mines or Pyro nades

Flamethrower is only fun when your entire build is designed to keep everyone in the room perpetually on fire

[thick holly]

Plus the way gaming on a keyboard is most natural for me, dash is very awkward to use :/

[dense oasis]

Idea: keep their stats and coding, all that shit, but switch around the LH1 and the Pike. I wanna use the Pike as a light, just feels like they should have the smaller rifle

[slow linden]

I actually agree

Also replace the lh1 with the m1garand

[dense oasis]

Dude, you and me- psychic connection cause a few minutes before that post, I actually was thinking that an M1 Garand specifically would be great. It can’t be reloaded unless every shot is fired, but the reload is fast

[slow linden]

The lh1 is supposed to be an m14 I'm pretty sure,and the m14 was a shitty weapons system

Fuck the m14

[dense oasis]

Yea but it looks cool, soooo

[slow linden]

An m1garand looks cooler

[boreal laurel]

What about goo flame? 😉

[slow linden]

I main goo flame

Goo Flame is the only right way to play Flamethrower

[boreal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-nuke-trvth-nvke-big-boss-gif-15944112429945701902

[ancient lily]

The tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth

[tiny glen]

i play flamethrower with winch because its just as effective and way easier and reliable

[dreamy cape]

im goona goom my pants

[slow linden]

It has way less combo potential and is way too safe,winch shouldn't even be in the game

[umbral stone]

I started playing a lot of bow this season for whatever reason, and I’m really enjoying it. My main frustration with it is how limited you are when it comes to specializations. Specifically, cloak is absolutely useless with it. Your cloak deactivates as soon as you start drawing the bow back. This defeats the entire purpose of cloak, which is to have the element of surprise and get the drop on your opponent. It would be pretty unfair to let you fully draw the bow back while invisible, but why not have the cloak deactivate half way through the draw or something like that? I know there’s always gonna be weapons that naturally pair better with certain specs, but I can’t think of another weapon that interferes with how a specialization is supposed to work like the bow does with cloak.

[slender bear]

I hope they do something creative for light's spec, imagine if they let us turn into the tiny wyrm from the promo for a second and a half

[quartz juniper]

Pretty crazy how they are having professional tournaments yet still have bugs and quality of life fixes that need to be done that have been in the game since day 1, have sent multiple bug reports and they have not done anything, for instance once ina while when your holding something with telekinesis, if you go to interact with say a zipline or a door, you will drop what you are carrying, simple bug that maybe its only on xbox but still have not addressed it, when carrying a totem or an explosive canister your about to use and you open the door and drop it, that could cost you time and if your pushing or being followed, is not fun to deal with, especially on a zipline, they need to fix this game so people will enjoy it better, especially for casuals. They maybe should have done a better job in releasing the game and advertising it instead of ghost dropping it and then wondering why they dont have numbers, great game i love it, but fr how many times do i have to do this.

[lunar hare]

Cl40 and flamethrower should be gadgets instead of main weapons

[shell geyser]

[gleaming aspen]

😭

[tiny glen]

no

[outer crow]

hah no

Even more me, heavy mainer - it would be too much

[wild zenith]

why does the model have aura and prestige in the community but not matter?

[hardy dust]

Because the community hates light

Although matter does have some prestige, and its harder than model to use

[wild zenith]

what makes it harder?

[hardy dust]

Its a sustained damage weapon on light

[wild zenith]

its also pseudo poke

[hardy dust]

Eh... it barely has range so I really wouldn't call it poke at all

Pseudo dive sure, but the ttk is pretty unforgiving unless you land qms, which is pretty tough to do consistently

[wild zenith]

i meant poke as in you can peek with it

[hardy dust]

Oh then yeah that makes sense

Its still kinda just a worse model in that case, since it has less range

You really need to play carefully with it since you're so squishy and don't have very good ttks

[wild zenith]

isnt model bottom tier?

[hardy dust]

Yeah its pretty shit rn

[wild zenith]

why do people say matter is top 5 light weapon then

[hardy dust]

Because the rest of light weapons kinda suck

[wild zenith]

or did i misunderstand this message?

[hardy dust]

I meant for poke damage its not as good as model. Overall its in a better spot

[wild zenith]

k

[hardy dust]

Both are suffering from the current poke meta though

[wild zenith]

that makes sense

[hardy dust]

But model needs a lil love imo, the nerfs were a bit too harsh

[wild zenith]

imo

matter should have had slower firing speed than DB instead of more shots to kill

[hardy dust]

Wouldn't that just be a worse db though?

[grand turtle]

Aura and prestige?
Likely the whole "wow, you are using a bad weapon, how cool!"

[wild zenith]

i meant, it kills in the same amount of shots as db, but fires slower

and the thresholds are less forgiving

like 123 for LMH, so only 1 more shot against heavy

[hardy dust]

Ohhhh, yeah that could be cool

[wild zenith]

currently its awkward how the gun is good vs light and heavy but horrible when duelling mediums

[hardy dust]

Its not great but not terrible imo

You either don't need to be super accurate or you get a qm and shorten the ttk a ton

[wild zenith]

the spread pattern makes the accuracy point kinda moot

cuz most of the pellets are all in the middle, and a tiny amount at the edges

[safe herald]

Is the p900 worth to buy

[faint pier]

Yes

(in my opinion)

[tiny glen]

again, db dash loadouts?

[warped talon]

By db you mean double barrels?

Also I've been thinking of trying cloaking device more, what gadgets do you guys like to run with it?

[tiny glen]

yes

[versed finch]

gateway for mobility

[tiny glen]

why run cloack when u got cloack nade

[warped talon]

Not super experienced with it myself, but I would definitely do vanishing bomb at least. Makes it easier not to miss the first two shots. Personally I like nullifier with it too, in case you're stuck reloading and need an opening

[warped talon]

Just for fun, and bc I like the ghost charm you get for leveling up with it

[tiny glen]

i prefer not to run invisibility in my loadouts

[tiny glen]

fair fair

[safe herald]

What are the best 3 guns in class light

[outer crow]

just enjoy the game

[warped talon]

Then probably just the standard light stuff

[outer crow]

light class doesnt need to worry about it

[warped talon]

From what I've seen, the 93R, the ARN and the M26 Matter see the most competitive play atm. But you're not there yet so don't worry too much. This game is well balanced for the most part; at lower levels, you can make a lot of different things work. So take advantage and have fun with different strategies

[tiny glen]

lh1 good too

[bleak osprey]

i love dual blades

but im worst with every other wepon

how to improve/win fights with guns

[placid juniper]

Try point and click adventure games to improve aim

[bleak osprey]

any recomendation that is free or can be pirated

[placid juniper]

You can just go outside and point at people, the world's your point and click adventure

[bleak osprey]

really man 🤔 😕

[placid juniper]

Yeah

[bleak osprey]

gimme a tutorial

[placid juniper]

1. Go out
2. Point at the wall
3. Click it
4. Unleash this new found power over the world

[bleak osprey]

i can understan 4th step

[faint pier]

does anyone know why is the thermal vision under maintenance for so long? 😔

[thick holly]

Because the majors, they don't want to reintroduce something that could shake up the meta until the majors are over

That's also why we haven't seen any weapon balancing recently

[faint pier]

Oh ok

[thick holly]

Probably when the next season starts is when we'll see the rework of it

[faint pier]

nice

[placid juniper]

Thermal machine broke

[pastel cobalt]

Mmm, I can't decide

Should I go with the ARN-220 or XP-54?

[turbid vault]

if you are a casual or aren't that good XP if you are a sweat or play well ARN, simple as that.

[ember coral]

i said yesterday that i like the lh1 but it could use a buff to its damage dropoff and recoil

[tiny notch]

inspect animation for the balloon sword skin: turns the sword into a balloon poodle

[lime mantle]

Can someone give me a good light build idc about the difficulty of it as long as it is good

[placid juniper]

m11

[gleaming aspen]

arn/93r with gateway goo nade and h+ infuser

[lime mantle]

I will try that build

[distant olive]

we need more weapons!!

[indigo nexus]

we need more… gaming!!

[gleaming aspen]

forgot to say glitch nade should be a backup gadget just incase hella heavies or hella turrents

[lime mantle]

Yeah but for power shift replace goo with pyro

Or glitch

[pastel veldt]

what weapons should i use for a begginer light, i solo que a lot

i want something i can use now and learn from so i can branch of into other weapons later

[tiny glen]

which gadgets should I use between these 7

[boreal laurel]

Probably XP-54 or ARN, they’re solid weapons that are pretty easy to use but will also let you learn the fundamentals of Finals gunplay

[tiny glen]

realistically just play m11 grapple double nade frag pyro

[boreal laurel]

Personally I think your current setup is pretty solid, at least for solo queue. I usually use thermal bore instead of breach charge but that’s personal preference. Of course if you’re grouping or happen to get matched with a heavy you might want the infuser instead

[tiny glen]

I want to get only 3 out of those 7 tho

because this loadout is just a try for the other loadout with arn and other gadgets

[onyx flicker]

What you think of riot shield loadouts?

[tiny glen]

agro or support

[crimson wedge]

I once again ask for a scalpel dagger skin for light, especially now that they have such a powerful healing tool a healing/revive light is even more viable and I find myself getting more teammates on their feet than any medium even could. Doctor cosmetics please!

[onyx flicker]

My play style is mixed but mainly agro

[tiny glen]

demat goo pad and defib/zip

goo because melee always needs goo

[onyx flicker]

What you think of prox, goo, and defib/zip

[tiny glen]

u use demat right?

[onyx flicker]

Yes

[tiny glen]

im not a fan of proximity

[onyx flicker]

I'm learning to be honest with you. I've been turret and healing for the longest

[tiny glen]

thats what most riot players do

usually

[onyx flicker]

In the beginning I tried to learn the demat but after I got overly dumb down by the turret

[tiny glen]

demat is good because when chasing someone u can cut distance. u also get free stalls and making someone fall on a lower flor can save your life

turret is still good with riot tho

[tiny glen]

like it fits very well the playstile as well as heal

[onyx flicker]

Ok I have a question, what's the least play style you ran into that made no sense but somehow worked?

[sudden pewter]

So least popular but effective playstyle?

[tiny glen]

maybe winch and the heavy pump shotgun

[sudden pewter]

I’d say goo-sniper. You can throw goo grenades at the hooks that hold the crates full of barrels that hang from the sky to create platforms to snipe from.

[tiny glen]

that makes sense tho as a playstile

[sudden pewter]

It’s effective for the first 5 kills or so, then the lobby catches on

[muted condor]

My personal goofy play style

[sudden pewter]

@muted condor I have a clip with the Minigun where I kill 3 Heavies

I haven’t trimmed/edited it yet so can’t post but it’s peak

[muted condor]

Mini gun sweep 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥

[sudden pewter]

I lockbolted 3 Heavies in a hallway and they panicked

[muted condor]

Behold my amazing light game play

[oak parrot]

Who wants cl40 deleted

[onyx flicker]

Not me lol

[muted condor]

Needs a buff or rework tbh

[onyx flicker]

Not really I think it's stable and make sense for the type of damage it gives

[sudden pewter]

I’d say it should become more inaccurate the more often it’s user jumps

[plucky spade]

https://tenor.com/view/william-james-moriarty-moriarty-the-patriot-smug-iamspeed-gif-6572188986461293342

[sudden pewter]

I can’t tell what this is supposed to convey

[tiny glen]

can u interrupt a steal w goo

[plucky spade]

That you're washed my guy

[sudden pewter]

I can’t tell what this is supposed to convey

I’m old and crunchy and am not familiar with much of the new lingo

[spring spear]

i dont understand what hes trying to say either

[sudden pewter]

I’m assuming he disagrees?

[spring spear]

your guess is as good as mine mr skooma dealer

[blazing flume]

yall is this new or one we already have? I didnt think it looked like any we had unless im an idiot and am forgetting something

[spring spear]

thats just a skin for the arn

[blazing flume]

ah, I guess I did forget about it

wait what about that sight tho

[gleaming aspen]

iron sight 🔥

[gleaming aspen]

that is a very unique name i must say

[blazing flume]

thank you

[fiery thunder]

I’m assuming he doesn’t understand modern slang, if I had to guess

[gleaming aspen]

@spring spear your washed means your not as good as you used to like for example being sweaty and washing the skill/sweatyness awat

[sudden pewter]

Ooooooh

My gamer grime was cleaned off

[lunar hare]

Drone for light :V

[outer crow]

No removes - just non biased and proper ballancing/nerfs

[coral root]

Remove Cl-40

[plucky spade]

Skill issue

[slow linden]

Mgl maybe,cl40 can actually kill people sometimes if the hitreg blesses you, and you treat it like a shotgun,but if you think flamethrower should be a gadget you're using it wrong,it's a combo weapon,it's for trappers but the average player just W M1s with it and wonders why they die

Flamethrower is nearly perfectly balanced and needs no damage buffs,maybe it could use some sort of buff but I can't really tell anyone how much of a buff it would need and to what stat,maybe a slight range buff or something,but only by a single meter nothing crazy

Ammo maybe? Nah it doesn't need help there..hmmm..a pickle

[restive plover]

make the range wider not longer or something

not that it needs it but just to see what happens

[slow linden]

That could work,it's meant for hitting multiple people maybe it could be a little better at that

[restive plover]

exactly

[hardy dust]

Maybe a slight increase in the flame projectile velocity

So it would feel a bit more responsive

And increased pullout speed or something so it can combo with googun/mesh better perhaps

[restive plover]

huh?

[hardy dust]

Reducing the time it takes to equip flamer and start shooting

[restive plover]

mm gotcha

[hardy dust]

So say I have mesh up, then equip flamer, the time it would take would be a bit shorter so you can combo it a bit better

[restive plover]

makes sense

[hardy dust]

Although I don't think embark is gonna touch flamer anytime soon for better or for worse 😔

[restive plover]

most likely not, but when they decide too there will be many golden ideas here for them to ignore

[hardy dust]

Yep, they have a lot more ways to balance flamer compared to other weapons

[restive plover]

my main deal rn is the titan revolver feels way to powerful headshot wise w winch but I don't want to get flamed for speaking it out loud

[slow linden]

Winch just shouldn't be here,hate fighting it,hate using it

[outer crow]

yea its cringe

[restive plover]

i have a good time using it, honestly don't face it as often as id imagine

when I do though I'm on dash light so i can usually get away before they get damage out

[slow linden]

The only fun time I have on winch is using it to pull people into nukes

[restive plover]

that or pulling an objective into the abyss

[slow linden]

Objective mobility is why I want them to replace it with a rope tool

[outer crow]

with flamethrower i get way more points than minigun

[slow linden]

I main both,I mastered goo flame and honestly I can no longer use any other flamethrower setup,synergys just too good

[charred vapor]

Is there a channel that includes Arc Riders players I would like to suggest something about to the developers

[sudden pewter]

No, for that you should join the Arc Raiders discord server

[outer crow]

riot shield must tank flamethrower

[opaque path]

Can’t relate winch and grav cub I be walking the obj all over the map

[sudden pewter]

Putting this here for posterity, a mod responded as you’d expect

[wraith orchid]

dude, I can't read this, it's all in maj

[versed finch]

I'd appreciate it if Embark make a reason to actually run V9S compared to the 93R, besides the .2 second faster reload, maybe faster firerate

[pastel cobalt]

Alrighty, thanks

[faint steppe]

I feel like there are simply some weapons that will never be "meta" but good enough to be used in basically every game mode if you like them. 93r will definitely catch a nerf after the Major but the V9s is just good enough to be one meaningful buff away from being really strong. And any small change would just be pointless imo.

[analog pewter]

airblast

[placid slate]

V9S got its dps randomly nerfed by 40 despite never being meta ever. Its essentially alway gonna be positioned below the m11 now due to them having identical damage falloff

[slow linden]

Reddit would cry,embark can't have that

[outer crow]

its not TF2 😸

[slow linden]

Every game should be a little more like tf2

Two of the best games ever are called tf2

[analog pewter]

3 of the best games ever are abbreviated TF

[slow linden]

Truth

[placid slate]

i find it kinda funny they ask the community to vote them for labour of love the same season they just dont actually update the game, pretty poor coincedence

[analog pewter]

i still think they deserve it

when u compare the finals' problems to other live service shooters it almost feels quaint lol

[placid slate]

they just released a 30 euro skin

[paper plaza]

And it is fire af

[placid slate]

after not updating their game for basically 2 months

[paper plaza]

Its also on sale

And you forget theyve been working on Arc Raiders too

[analog pewter]

the fact you can buy it piecemeal makes the price tag not sting tbh

i mean i wasnt planning on getting it anyways bc that sort of edginess isn't my taste but even still if i wanted just one piece of it I'm not getting robbed

[placid slate]

brother you dont know how thi shit works if you think its on sale, let alone thinking 50 quid is a valid standard price

[analog pewter]

its lame that it doesnt come with like, anything else tho

[placid slate]

you know what else you can buy piece meal? every other skin that doesnt cost 30 fucking quid

[analog pewter]

yeah its a strength of the whole monetization scheme wym

[placid slate]

not to mention the voice alone costs 10 euro, previous ones were 5

[paper plaza]

5000 at sale for 3000, while I admit its a bit higher than Id like I do think it was made extremely well. I do wish it came with a gun skin or something else like the others do.

[analog pewter]

the sale thing is a marketing trick

[placid slate]

its not 5,000 on sale, you physically cant pay 5000 ever

[analog pewter]

the value is 3000 which is too high for sure

[placid slate]

like its not even revolutionary shit thatd blow you away either, its just a glowstick mf

[paper plaza]

5k multibucks? We are talking about the same thing right?

[placid slate]

the new mythic outfit

[analog pewter]

btw does anyone know if a sound already exists (the equippable ones) that's the orchestral motif used in a lot of the soundtrack
yk the one ... used most prominently here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ8WlEpI_XE

i dont rly use sounds but that would be a banger one

[placid slate]

i think i own that one actually

[analog pewter]

oh such a sound exists?

[placid slate]

its a chiptune variant

[analog pewter]

aw man they gotta put the full variant in for sure
but whats it called

[paper plaza]

Im looking at it in the store rn, the price of 5k multibucks is striked out and its set at 3k

[analog pewter]

the finals soundtrack is sooooo strong and i love that motif to death
this game and trackmania really made me understand SPORTS ! SPORTS ! SPORTS !

[paper plaza]

I had to finish my wt match to check and be sure

[placid slate]

thats not a sale btw, its just what the total amount WOULD be outside the bundle, which you physically cannot pay for regardless as they give you all the items once the 3k threshold is crossed

[outer crow]

light with sword and dash is so broken

[paper plaza]

Well thats definitely something I didnt know. So then....why is the 5k there if you get everything after 3k anyway

[placid slate]

to trick people like you

[paper plaza]

I dont appreciate the way you've worded that

I assumed it was meant as a sale as other games have done so

Check your tone dude, its okay to be confused or not know exactly how marketing things work

[placid slate]

didnt mean it rudely man, just using you as an example since you were unaware of how the shop operated

[outer crow]

and lights cry while still having super broken combos

[paper plaza]

True

[outer crow]

that melee dasher just obliterates riot super ease

[paper plaza]

The tech with sword dashing is so nutty it bugs me

[outer crow]

u try to reach him - u dead - u try block him - still dead

[paper plaza]

I mean like the charge lunge where they snap around, not the dash spec

[placid slate]

bro they removed that like 2 seasons ago

[compact tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-the-finals-skill-issue-gif-9109889277599560089

[paper plaza]

Literally watched a guy do that to me last round

[outer crow]

sadly cant paste laughing risitas here

[placid slate]

they just didnt tho the camera is litterally locked

[compact tundra]

Gyro controllers have a way to break the lock but they still can’t whip like they used too

[outer crow]

thats what i call biased ballancing

[placid slate]

first ever reason to use a controller over kbm?

[compact tundra]

I mean controllers have smoother movement and with sword that matters so it was already a good pairing

[outer crow]

just remove medium/heavy class and rename game to Light rivals 😂

[paper plaza]

What im yapping about is when a sword dashes through me with the charge lunge and then snap their neck to chain it

[paper plaza]

Most of lights weapons are balanced. Some arent

[placid slate]

Shits called memory leak, from season 7 BP

[restive plover]

We need a musket

[outer crow]

why not?

[slow linden]

I survived today's tummy ache

[placid slate]

you should eat everyones favourite 4.5m long sharp stick

[restive plover]

I need a musket for my Swedish Carolean skin

[reef vessel]

since when did they add swords?

[outer crow]

long ago

since 1st season if not mistaking

[slow linden]

Spear?

[placid slate]

eat it

now

[slow linden]

I'll nerf it if I do

My stomach acid can dissolve tungsten

[placid slate]

spear has a bug somewhere in there that makes it acid proof probably

[slow linden]

Spear has a bug where it doesn't work sometimes

[sudden pewter]

Ursa bugged

[placid slate]

Embark has a bug where they don't buff the spear for a year and a half

[placid slate]

Bro you actually paid 30 quid for that?

[slow linden]

Insanity

[placid slate]

They duplicated the face onto 2 different items

[slow linden]

: (

[placid slate]

Shit would be like 2100 otherwise

Also the fucking voice is 800

[slow linden]

They're going to charge 2100 multibucks for access to the spear buff

[placid slate]

Another unnecessary price increase since they normally 400

Shit would be less than 2000 mb if they didn't go with all these greedy ass decisions

[sudden pewter]

I'm an American I pay dollars

Also this is dumb. Inflating the price of the bundle by throwing in a spray nobody will use that builds on the contestant lore.

[shell sonnet]

bruh?

[sudden pewter]

The Ursa chest has some rigging issues(?) where the chest explodes on the sides like two ribs have been removed

[tiny glen]

the best thing of the bundle are the pants

[sudden pewter]

I do like the freely hanging belt(?) on the pants

I'm more excited for future iterations of the chest piece, looks to have what is essentially armor and I fuck with that HEAVY

Hoping in the future we get a variant where there's a chestplate that has an integrated gorget

[tiny notch]

i like the face of it

i think if its put on anything but the whole set it could look less edgy

[kind stag]

Allow the turret to be remote controlled or the ability to make it target the people ur fighting

[muted condor]

I just want my knight armor

[slow linden]

It already does that second thing if you just shoot what it shoots,also remote controlling something with 50dps is not the buff that you think it is

[sudden pewter]

Same bro, I feel like next season we’ll have something to whet that palette

Probably something inspired by modern armor

[muted condor]

Naw, next season with be historical Korean inspired

[sudden pewter]

Nah bro it's the Chinals because glorious Ming Dynasty

S3 was Japan and now we're getting China

[muted condor]

The chinals is this up coming season but the next one will be Korean

[sudden pewter]

someone in #👂┇game-feedback said "I just wanna add my 2 cents"
Sent it
Realized they had a 6h cooldown
Deleted it

[muted condor]

We need around 4 more seasons of Asian skins before they try branching out

[analog pewter]

i kinda wish they'd do a casette futurism season given their new experience with it re:arc raiders. sorta stuff that would fit really well i think