💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sudden pewter]

We were under the impression that we weren’t getting any new weapons due to the need for balancing what we already have. So there’s two possibilities:

• The teased weapons were already ready to go and they decided to release them with S9 regardless of balancing issues
• They have been cooking on balance but haven’t released sweeping changes as to not shake things up for the Major

[proven compass]

Didn’t they say there wouldn’t be new weapons every single season to avoid bloat and that made everyone assume S8 wouldn’t have weapons despite S7 not having new weapons

[sudden pewter]

Melee weapons still need to be reworked and there’s some pain points in the line of gadgets. H+ being too strong and the Breach Drill being too weak.

[sudden pewter]

In the AMA Stream they said they wanted to focus on improving what we have rather than add more weapons. Oscar gave an example of a game that was a good example but I can’t remember it

IIRC They’re looking to refresh weapons that aren’t popular and essentially make them new.

I’m sure the melee rework ties into that somehow but idk 🤷‍♂️

It’s not like Embark will stop adding new toys. But the list of toys we have that don’t get used regularly will grow with time

[compact tundra]

H+ needs the fuckign nullifier treatment. I think breach drill is a relatively easy fix tho and could cause some promising changes.

Breach now makes a loud sound while connecting to a wall, Then you can trigger it anytime with a remote. Once triggered it immediately flashes and then booms the wall about .3 seconds after. Maybe give it a second charge as well to be a better pick for people who don't use dematty

[sudden pewter]

Breach Drill. Breach Charge is a Light gadget

[maiden nest]

Breach Drill should release HE grenades into the room instead, like Fuze's cluster launcher from R6:Siege

[muted condor]

I support this

[maiden nest]

So you'd get... Clear&Breach? 🤔

[sudden pewter]

Honestly I’d just make the breach drill manually activated like C4 and make it instantly destroy goo walls

[red pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/ak-akm-you-have-alerted-you-have-alerted-the-akm-gif-2864589286503666842

[sudden pewter]

Instant S tier for breaking goo alone

[compact tundra]

Basically same idea, I just also think a second charge would be nice

[muted condor]

Holy shit it’s Junior!

[lost plume]

Should I switch from turret to demat?

[muted condor]

Probably

[maiden nest]

Or maybe just give the Thermal Bore to Medium, buff it a little too, idk

[sudden pewter]

Nah he plays Light. #NotMyJunior

[red pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/wrong-drumpf-trump-stupid-gif-6220235

Literally look at my roles 😔

[sudden pewter]

Fake news. I have the receipts.

[tawny scaffold]

I think that's a good thing for showing you their fov, if you for whatever reason maybe had doubts that they may be cheating.

[visual orbit]

We want brick throwing knives🙏

[sudden pewter]

I’m more interested in being able to see:

• Obscene Aimsnap
• Recoil
• Tracking through walls
  Regardless KillCams are going to be huge. I’m hoping there’s also a replay/recording component but I won’t be heartbroken if it isn’t a thing

[tawny scaffold]

wait but if they add killcams and you get resurrected before it could play or as it was playing, then they should let you review the footage at the end of the game

[sudden pewter]

That’s another concern.

[tawny scaffold]

also it may stop you from spamming emotes or teabagging after killing people

[sudden pewter]

I’d hope Embark would allow a quick-report option while dead so they can capture and log killcams

[tawny scaffold]

they need an overwatch system like the one global offensive had

community is very friendly Im sure people would review footage

[restive plover]

is it.a new weapon in todays teaser

I don't recognize the black/red skin

[sudden pewter]

I wouldn’t want incentives to review footage.

I also wouldn’t trust the community at large to identify actual cheaters from skilled play tbh

[compact tundra]

That sounds like a really bad idea

[tawny scaffold]

nobody would be forcing you to

[versed finch]

Killcams are gonna go so hard

They'll also help players see what they did wrong, so thats a plus

[compact tundra]

Also means every time I kill some one I get to flex my charms and stickers, which actually gives them a use now

[versed finch]

So 2 new weapons (Kind of like season 5 how medium got cerbrus and heavy got shak-50), kill cam system, fire beats, i wonder what else will get revealed before the start

They probably have 1 more suprise for tomorrow

[sudden pewter]

Yet another reason Season 5 was peak (Birth of Shak)

[versed finch]

Shak is one of my absolute favorite guns

[compact tundra]

For me also Cerberus, I think the Cerberus is a super cool gun and would be great if they could figure out how to balance it out so it settles

[coral root]

Maybe theyll drop the PvE mode they said they were working on

[tawny scaffold]

which mode was that?

[sudden pewter]

2 tapping Lights was peak but it definitely needed a nerf

[versed finch]

The Cerberus is one of the hardest guns to balance, it's either OP or UP

[tawny scaffold]

1 tapping a light with an rpg was peak

[coral root]

There was speculation that its like a heist mode but idk

[versed finch]

That would be insane, wait i want that

[hardy dust]

It 1 tapped 😭

[coral root]

Dont we all

[versed finch]

BRING BACK STEAL THE SPOTLIGHT

[coral root]

I regret missing spotlight so much i really want that outfit

[versed finch]

I'm gonna make a time machine to tell me to play the finals season 1

[coral root]

Smoking guns was so fun too

[versed finch]

I totally thought it was like a weird gameshow/quiz online game when i saw it on my xbox a couple years ago

I downloaded it season 4 and haven't missed a season since

[sudden pewter]

LTM’s quake in fear at the mention of Heavy Hitters

[versed finch]

Top 3 LTMs

[eager wasp]

Cashball #1 LTM by far

[coral root]

Imma have to toss in S2 Bunny Bash just for the music track

[versed finch]

Cashball was fun, but i think its like #4 on my list

[tawny scaffold]

cashball was unique but the arena wasn't that interesting

[versed finch]

Heavy hitters was so peak, I don't think embark can top it, at least in my eyes

[eager wasp]

I liked cashball simply bc dagger vs melee, i could destroy entire lobbies just for the fun of it, ALSO i miss the 4k exp for my dagger per match

[coral root]

TDM was such a good LTM it stayed

[tawny scaffold]

I mean it is a standard gamemode in other fps games

[versed finch]

We all know the #1 LTM is obviously Terminal Attack

It's so popular it takes me 2 minutes to find a match

[compact tundra]

I've gotten matches of TA pretty quickly recently

I think the S3 hate for it is finally fizzling and people are trying it casually. And the S3 sweaties at the mode have probably quit by now so it's more casual friendly

[versed finch]

Terminal Attack is fun if its a good map

[tawny scaffold]

I hate kyoto with every fiber of my being

[versed finch]

REMOVE KYOTO AS A MAP OPTION FOR TA

[eager wasp]

remove kyoto as a map option

[versed finch]

Embark, Give Kyoto The Stun Gun Treatment

But never stop reworking it so I never have to see it again

[eager wasp]

no, recon senses treatment, completely wipe it off the game

[tawny scaffold]

and turn it into a sonar grenade

[versed finch]

It's a good looking map, but the second it's time to play...

[coral root]

Kyoto should only be available in power shift, same for vegas stadium and TDM

[compact tundra]

Fucking real. Why is that goddamn abomination called kyoto when it's literally the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Like it's supposed to be one of the largest cities in Japan even back then, so why the fuck is there like a population of 3 people

[versed finch]

Just my luck I would only get into PS matches with Kyoto at that point

[tawny scaffold]

It's based on kyoto from that time period. Bunch of parts of it put together in a map

[versed finch]

Seems like Embark finally realized how to make a good map season 7

[compact tundra]

Honestly it's ok in PS tho. Plus it needs to stay somewhere so I can continue building tree forts

[versed finch]

New map is PEAK, no debate

[tawny scaffold]

more I play nozomi citadel more I start to hate it like kyoto

the nozomi part to be specific

[versed finch]

I love Nozomi Citidel, only downside is I'm not a big fan of maps with void sections, because people always set up goo traps

[coral root]

I like Fortune Stadium

[tawny scaffold]

I like the vaiiya side but I really hate the nozomi side

the 80s synthwave aesthetic is so overused

[muted condor]

As a spear player I love voids

[wispy bloom]

wdh are void sections?

[compact tundra]

It's actually the opposite for me, I don't like the vaiiya side but the CnS is super fun play wise for me

[muted condor]

Pits

[versed finch]

I think embark should actually take a season to fix their balance issues

[versed finch]

I would rather take a season with nothing new than add new weapons that worsen the balance even more (Even if the new gunas are gonna be pretty damn cool)

[tawny scaffold]

wheres that from???

[wind lintel]

Super secret Embark discord.

[tawny scaffold]

oh now I'm being discriminated against huh

elitism they call it

[versed finch]

Hmmm, why is there an E in the corner with the specific font...

[coral root]

Its a joke mocking this:

[proven compass]

E is for Embark

[versed finch]

Tank Comfirmed?

[sudden pewter]

Heavy gets the first vehicle

[versed finch]

Def gonna be a Heavy Spec, no debate

[proven compass]

Nah you’re all wrong it’s a G36

[wind lintel]

.

[proven compass]

Give light a cancer ray

[versed finch]

Juggernaut event season 8 please

[terse gorge]

what are the new weapons boys

[versed finch]

Looks like People are saying the P90 for medium and the .500 BFR for heavy

[versed finch]

Of course that's just what i remember

[compact tundra]

It looks more like a bullpup than a revolver to me but we'll see tomorrow

[versed finch]

You mean september 10th? Or are they revealing tmrw?

[compact tundra]

Oh sorry your right, I was thinking it's the 9th today

[versed finch]

No problem. I wish it was the 9th today, I'm actually hyped

New guns just make me happy ngl, even if they aren't needed. Going from like 2 guns a season to 0 for season 7 was brutal for me

[compact tundra]

I like new weapons but normal guns just kinda bore me. Like a p90 sounds cool but realistically how different will it be from the other automatics

[versed finch]

I remember when in season 4, each gun was like 2200 vrs, despite some being from like season 1

It took me to end of season 6 to unlock the spear

[ember condor]

do you guys think m11 or 93r is better

[compact tundra]

Usually it's the new theming, cosmetics, and especially the balance changes that excite me. God I miss weekly Wednesday balance changes

[versed finch]

and then they're like "We made all old stuff very cheap :D"

RIGHT after all my hard work was finished. I remember when light got grapple and M11 as the staring loadout

[compact tundra]

93r is better but M11 still has its own place to shine

[versed finch]

WHAT ABOUT MY V9S?

[arctic terrace]

whats the best weapon for light main

[compact tundra]

Just don't be poor

[versed finch]

V9S has such an insane damage potential

[compact tundra]

Wasn't in the question goofy

[versed finch]

I turn that gun into a full auto versions

[compact tundra]

It's still outshined by the 93r, XP54, and ARN

[arctic terrace]

is it bc ive tried and ikept losing

[versed finch]

I've put down so many SH1900, M26 Matter, XP-54, ARN-220, 93R, and Sword players with the V9S

If you know how to use it, you can easily get 15+ kills

[arctic terrace]

ill give it a go

[versed finch]

Yay

[compact tundra]

I mean I absolutely clap minigun heavies with the sword but that doesn't mean swords better than minigun

[ember condor]

there is too much visual recoil for me and tbh it would be better if it had slightly more range

[graceful nova]

V9S hip spread is pretty tight

[willow musk]

Did they reveal any new guns today?

[coral root]

No

[willow musk]

Dang

[coral root]

They teased like a theater mode/ killcam thing, pretty exciting

[vale pivot]

I don't think they're adding new gear next season

[coral root]

Yeah just the two guns that they already teased

[willow musk]

I mean we seemed to get a teaser around guns just yesterday #game-announcements message

[plucky spade]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

[tawny scaffold]

im going to invent time travel and travel 2 days into the future

[plucky spade]

Watch it be a railgun of sorts

[cunning slate]

well, tell us what we need to know. and no spoiling the memes.

[coral root]

Use the power of sleep

[cunning slate]

i've been asking for one.

[coral root]

Have it able to penetrate like 5 walls before stopping

[plucky spade]

A beverage of sorts

[graceful nova]

The glitch grenade should be called the “No grenade”

[cunning slate]

Nah. More like slowly regaining ammo.

[glossy sable]

Nerf cl40 on everything

[outer atlas]

Is there a ruby for 94r,ARN,throwing knifes,mac11,PLEASE TELL ME

[velvet pasture]

how long does the light's tracking dart last for?

[outer atlas]

TELL ME

[velvet pasture]

or in other words, is there any point in taking that over sonar nade

[proven compass]

13 seconds

[velvet pasture]

huh, thats pretty nice, but idk if more worth than sonarnade

[feral pivot]

Top 3 weapons of each class with best hipfire GO

[eager wasp]

m26 model 1887 sa1216

[tawny scaffold]

def not worth over sonar grenade

[near salmon]

flamethrower is the hip fire monster because it can't aim

[indigo nexus]

if you have a short range weapon it's more useful

[muted condor]

Embark watching every tripping balls over some mythic skins for the revolver and mp5

[compact tundra]

I came up with a kinda gimmicky design for a blunder buss, what you guys think.

DESIGNED FOR HEAVY

Blunderbuss & pavise shield
The blunder buss is a shotgun like weapon with very high damage and a musket like reload. The pavise shield is a large, placable shield, that often worked as cover for archers and musketeers.

Blunderbuss

• Fires 1 shot per reload
• has 1 "slug" round and 8 pellets
• slug deals 120dmg
• pellets do 25dmg × 8
• total damage per meat shot is 320dmg
• 3.5 second reload

Pavise Shield

• an invincible shield that is worn on the heavies back
• can be placed with the alt fire button, while placed the stand holding the shield up has 650hp, any damage done to the shield is dealt to the stand. So after 650 damage is dealt the shield will collapse.
• While deployed the shield is large enough to be crouched behind but when standing the heavies head will be fully visible.
• the sheild can only be picked up or recalled, can't charge while placed.

Should have a big spread so you have to be very close for a full meat shot

[compact tundra]

Double barrel, model, Ig SA-12 but flamethrower is the true king

[hardy dust]

Shotguns (except ks)

[hushed nacelle]

Heavy should get a saw or 240 L

[hardy dust]

And flamer

[lusty garden]

pavise should be for light or medium tbh cuz heavy alr got a deployable shield and a placeable shield

[muted condor]

Pike

[compact tundra]

I wouldn't mind a pavise crossbow for light or medium but the blunderbuss needs the survivability

[feral pivot]

YOU ARE THE ONNNEEE

[indigo nexus]

I feel like I have seen this exact interchange before

[indigo nexus]

The shield seems entirely superfluous when barricade does almost the same thing.

[compact tundra]

It kinda is but I don't like weapons forcing must picks and making shooting the heavy in the back harder is helpful for survivability. It's meant to be quick deploy cover while you reload

[arctic remnant]

Fixed or random spread

[compact tundra]

Fixed, none of the shotguns in this game have random spread. The weird drawing is a quick sketch of what the spread pattern should be

[shell sonnet]

1 shots suck
and a long reload doenst matter if the engagement is won instantly, only matter on a miss
heavy has winch btw

[arctic remnant]

Why not be able to stuff random objects like chairs or smth it is a blunderbuss, for funny

[compact tundra]

Yea I get winch could be a problem but a 3.5sec reload means as soon as you kill one the other two have a massive window to kill you. And with the big vulnerability after shooting winch might actually not be the best give you get one free kill and then die. But I did say it was gimmicky so probably not my best idea.

[lusty rampart]

can someone give me meta loadout for light and medium? (for grinding rank)

[compact tundra]

Can negate the reload by consuming a chair, I find that funny

[shell sonnet]

in casual you have a ton of 1:1 engagements

and 1-shots in general sucks
i dont think a downside is gonna make that any better
especially one that the victim doesnt feel

you see how many people complain about being 2-shot by sh1900
1-shots, on heavy no less, would be even worse

[compact tundra]

I agree but I think the double Darrel's other problem is how slippery the damn rat is. Heavy is big, easy to avoid, and noticeable. While the double barrel is on a class with dash and cloak

[tiny glen]

I need cool gadgets for medium and dual blades fixes

[south plinth]

Honest to god I would delete lights Vanish bomb if I could

[viral veldt]

PETITION;

Heavy gets a Blunderbuss, slow reload high damage with knock back

Light will get a poison darted blow pipe

Medium wall climbing gloves

[tiny glen]

yes medium needs those

[proven compass]

they should give heavy a jetpack

[muted condor]

Would seem kinda weird when jump pad exists

[blazing flume]

@covert pebble

[compact tundra]

I honestly think I'm maining flamethrower heavy at this point until sword is in a fun state again. I still play it some but I've found mesh flame has become my go to pick because honestly sword is genuinely becoming boring for me right now. I've been playing more fucking double barrel than sword recently

[covert pebble]

That would be nuts

[blazing flume]

Ik, I think people are saying it’s for heavy, I personally am hoping it’s not a revolver but idk since someone sent me this and I can’t confirm if it’s real

(I have no idea who this is btw)

[covert pebble]

500 magnum for heavy 🤤

[compact tundra]

I'm pretty sure it's a bullpup shotgun or automatic

If we even are getting new guns

[covert pebble]

We definitely are from the teasers lol

[blazing flume]

We are, that’s what the teaser was, no?

[covert pebble]

My first idea was a branch from the pancor jackhammer but I think it's a stretch

[compact tundra]

No telling at the moment, for all we know they could be skins. But it's likely given the teasers it just seems weird since embark was talking about how they want to focus on balancing the weapons we already have rather than adding new ones.

[blazing flume]

They definitely wouldn’t be teasing skins lmao, they said “new toys” after all

[covert pebble]

Medium is very stale with its weapon choices at the moment

[compact tundra]

That makes sense it's just inconsistent with what they were talking about all season. The most likely idea I've heard is that these were already designed and ready to go before they decided to step back from adding new weapons

[blazing flume]

I’m pretty sure they are always the planned like 2 seasons ahead, heard they already have 9 and 10 planned anyways

[proven compass]

The video is called “THEFINALS_S08_WeaponTeaser.mp4” this is not skins

And the twitch chat message that said they didn’t want to flood the game with weapons specifically said there were a few more on the way

[tiny glen]

hope its for light

[hardy dust]

Dash, 93r, h+, gateway, glitch
Demat, pike, jump, defib, goo

[proven compass]

It fires a bigger caliber than the deagle not a chance the Big Fucking Revolver goes to light and not heavy

[tiny glen]

heavy gets all the good shit 😔

[proven compass]

light just got the ARN

minigun is fun but ARN is good

[blazing flume]

Seriously though, can anyone back this up? I told him that there was no chance only he noticed it, someone else had to have seen it (if it even exists)

[proven compass]

Gotta be fake the RTS is a real .22 revolver
And if it’s destruction focused that’s just the KS-23

[ripe storm]

Can we get like a Barrett 50cal for heavy, and like a L118A1 for medium?

[proven compass]

Please no

[blazing flume]

Oh wait also forgot this, took that ss before he sent this, “Titan Revolver”? Idk what he meant

[tiny glen]

can we fix dual blades and give medium a stim which doesn't heal but gives speedboost?

[proven compass]

This feels like he realized RTS wasn’t believable

Still doesn’t add up with the KS23 being a single shot destruction-focused weapon, what purpose would adding a single action revolver that has the exact same role serve

[tiny glen]

ks23 destroys things?

[proven compass]

That’s its main purpose yes
it’s a 100 damage no headshot multi slug that does massive structural damage

It’s viable in a fight but the main use case is that it can break a wall in 2-3 shots

[compact tundra]

Ks-23 has the best destruction out of any gun

[tiny glen]

is it like sledgehammer lvl

[blazing flume]

I shot a .38 long nose the other day, very fun

[proven compass]

2-3 shots but can be used at range

[tiny glen]

p cool

[blazing flume]

Honestly, and idk why this is the case, but my favorite part of using a revolver is emptying and reloading the cylinder, just is kinda addicting in a weird way

[tiny glen]

do the dual blades still have server issues?

[tiny glen]

if light had a revolver i would play it ngl

[compact tundra]

All Melee still have hit reg issues. But the dual blades also have a weird quirk to them. The reflect is rendered as a cone that expands from your player, so the closer they are the smaller that reflect circle is, making it easier to shoot you

[blazing flume]

Also got to try out a Winchester and a Luger, I honestly hated the Luger since I pinched my finger in it when pulling back the thingy, though it was pretty funny when my friend shot it and the casing flew up and hit him on the top of his head

[tiny glen]

damm, fix dual blades, pls... shit is soo fun...

is frag/ explosive mines good?

[blazing flume]

Depends on the situation, I like underhanding it and winching a light above it

[proven compass]

You’re either gonna love or hate the BFR cuz it’s a gate loader

[compact tundra]

Yes they're good just require good reading/ good placement

[eager wasp]

explosive mines no, frag ehhh

[tiny glen]

why explosive mines no?

[eager wasp]

you get one, and it really doesn't do that much damage, you'd have more value bringing other stuff

[blazing flume]

I was kinda referring to irl but yeah, that’s gonna suck

[eager wasp]

bc its also not a guarantee you get any value out of it if an enemy never steps on it

the only good mines in the game are pyro mines and gas mines being okay

[compact tundra]

Glitch?

Also explosive is ok, if you have smart placement or good bait skills then it gets ok value

[eager wasp]

glitch is a trap not really a mine, and its really only good for stopping melee users completely

[compact tundra]

I mean glitch mine really just shuts down light hard, losing dash is rough when you die in like 1.5sec flat

[tiny glen]

why does the wiki says that pyro mines deal 79 + 25/s even tho pyro nades deal 20/s

[eager wasp]

pyro mines are hotter perchance (idk why they are different tbh)

[compact tundra]

I mean it makes balance sense why a placable mine deserves more value than a throwable grenade. But logic wise it's a mystery

[tiny glen]

but is it true? wasn't it like a mistype?

[compact tundra]

I presume so, I haven't seen the wiki be wrong before

[dry widget]

Anyone have updated spreadsheet for weapon ttk?

[tiny glen]

maybe was fire ever nerfed?

[stoic garden]

the only nerf i've ever seen was fire destroying goo timer from 6 to 9 seconds (it was 12 the patch before these) because "it countered goo too well" mf that's the point

and now they nerfed goo nade itself instead 🔥

aside from that i've never seen fire damage or dps changed on any of these since s1

[tiny glen]

then why does the wiki says that pyro mines deal 79 + 25/s even tho pyro nades deal 20/s

[stoic garden]

i have no idea i never use those gadgets

[proven compass]

Because they don’t deal the same damage?

[tiny glen]

they dont deal the same fire dmg?

[proven compass]

Yes

[tiny glen]

it doesn't make much sense. its still fire

[proven compass]

it’s also a video game

[tiny glen]

yeah, but u have no way to recognise the difference between the 2

[proven compass]

If mine only did 20 there’d be minimal reason to run it over gas for cashout defense, gas does 22
the nade does less because it’s free, whereas mine can easily be disarmed

[proven compass]

did a mine explode?
yes? pyro mine
no? grenade

[tiny glen]

but what if u walked in the fire after it exploded?

[proven compass]

have you considered audio

pyro mines go kaboom nades shatter

[tiny glen]

piro mines would still be the best cos of 79 burst explosion at the start

[tiny glen]

this doesn't matter

[proven compass]

It is an explicit way to tell which one it is even if you didn’t trigger it

[tiny glen]

what if they blew up both a mine and a jade at the same time

[proven compass]

but often mines are combined with c4 or breach charge and placed under or above cashout for remote stalling
in which case the burst damage doesn’t hit

[proven compass]

directional audio

if they’re from the same direction assume overlapping flames, so 25/s

[rough olive]

The audio in this game is almost as bad as tarkov change my mind

[tiny glen]

u are avoiding the problem

[proven compass]

I am saying that the problem can be solved by any sort of awareness

[tiny glen]

how do u know fire deals 20 or 25

[proven compass]

sound, game sense

[stoic garden]

i feel like someone should go ingame to actually test, then check if the lingering fire long after the explosion has the same damage

[tiny glen]

I cant rn

[proven compass]

it does not last long enough for it to be an issue if you were far enough to not hear it

[tiny glen]

but thats not what im trying to see. I know how to avoid fire dude

im questioning the game stats

[proven compass]

it does differing amounts of damage for balance reasons

[tiny glen]

are u sure about it?

[proven compass]

gas does the same damage because multiple weapons can disarm gas
only smokes can disarm fire, so the free pyro nade is weaker than the situational pyro mine

[tiny glen]

are u sure it deals diffrent dot like the wiki says?

[tiny glen]

gas always deals 22

[proven compass]

exactly
does the same between them

[proven compass]

no because who runs pyro mine

but assuming, for the sake of argument, that it is correct
it makes logical sense as to why

[tiny glen]

yes

but i want to know if its correct or no

[proven compass]

Test it then
would take about 2 minutes in the range

[tiny glen]

pyro mine is the best mine, but kinda waisted on heavy

[tiny glen]

i cant rn

[stoic garden]

⚠️

[proven compass]

Gas mine better for stalling cuz medium can afford the slot
Explosive mine plus C4 also better on heavy cuz it can drop a medium who attempts to steal and drops cashbox
Glitch mine better cuz it’s glitch

[marsh oasis]

HELLO

[proven compass]

Maybe if it was on medium i could see the argument of pyro being better

[stoic garden]

gas grenade is missing some balance changes

[marsh oasis]

Ruby

MEOW

[stoic garden]

i remember in a certain patch (might've been s1 or two) they made gas start off weak when you first enter it then deal bigger damage to counter heal beam steal strats

[marsh oasis]

dd

[blazing flume]

anyone know what this akm skin is? I cant even find it on the wiki

[stoic garden]

because it does NOT deal 22dmg per second

[tiny glen]

test it and lmk w a dm

i gotta go

[cunning slate]

Any news?

[stoic garden]

this is a change to all sources of toxic gas

season 2 starter patch

the page dedicated to the actual gas has the correct values tho...

[stoic garden]

just read above gg

[lusty rampart]

why people use dash over grappling?

[stoic garden]

way more useful in combat to not die the moment you're caught without cover

[muted condor]

It’s more forgiving

[eager wasp]

just infinitely better

[proven compass]

Wireline prime
It’s a whole series, seems to be PS+ exclusive

For the shak, sh1900, mgl, akm, cerberus, and xp54

Still available but you gotta have PS plus, “buy” the bundle (it’s $0) and launch the game on playstation to get it

[blazing flume]

wow, those are real pretty, dont got a playstation tho T-T

[proven compass]

if it’s any consolation there’s the same thing but purple for the famas, 93R, KS23, and riot shield in the season 2 pass

[lusty rampart]

is it just a playstyle thing? feel like i could be more use outflanking with a grappling hook than using dash for defensive

[blazing flume]

yeah I know, I just really like the orange a lot

[proven compass]

Fair
Interesting that they did orange and not blue for playstation

[stoic garden]

not quite, at the higher levels of play dash is just so versatile for movement and keeping you alive, the better aimers dash whilst shooting (you need to stop aiming for a split second otherwise u cant dash) people to better their chances of winning

another thing inside organized teams is, if you dash into your medium's jump pad you just asked for, you can go anywhere and lend them a free gateway

very helpful for getting to cashouts in time with the whole team without using ziplines, or using a less versatile spec such as grapple

[lusty rampart]

maybe its the q key, i find it so clunky to press and move, i should change it do my side mouse buttons and play with it more

[stoic garden]

oh yea rebind that, pretty detrimental with dash, especially because you might want to dash sideways, which q might get in the way of

personally i rebound it to mouse 4 (lower side mouse button)

if you dont have that you could try scroll wheel if you don't use it, or start training your pinky finger and use it for left shift

[lusty rampart]

whats ur sprint key? i use my pinky for shift/sprint

[stoic garden]

i use auto sprint lol

i have it on q, because that toggles it on and off if you have auto

[viral flume]

I haven’t seen anyone say this yet but I feel like one of the new guns might be an over under shotgun the rail that is shown looks similar to one but if i could send pictures id show the resemblance but i cant so you just gotta take my word

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330475386261536/1414283737310564463/Jackhammer_Fire.webp?ex=68c0535f&is=68bf01df&hm=57e06920f873e76a3811d77fa59dfa8914954e3be007ac4d63b1f371dce2d05b& do you mean this

[pliant steppe]

Where can i find the different zoom levels for all of the sights?

[stoic garden]

https://www.thefinals.wiki/wiki/Sights might help, but generally most if not all sights that arent irons or scout have the same zoom

[pliant steppe]

I checked that, it doesn't list the zoom or magnification levels anywhere, unless i'm blind .

[stoic garden]

i checked and it doesn't in fact, the screenshots dont help much either

if you really really care you could check appoh's video on sights, which showcases the actual zoom levels decently well

[stoic garden]

but what i said here should be enough, it really is just personal preference

you will never catch me dead using holographic sights cuz it clutters too much imo

[hardy dust]

since its more versatile and useful in combat. the extra movement you get from grapple usually can be mitigated with dash anyways, so it ends up being a lot better.

[shell sonnet]

hmmm, what if defib made the target come back immediately (so without hologram)
and the defib medium themselves became a hologram for a short duration?

just throwing shit at a wall to get some opinions

[viral flume]

No I mean like a .725 or BOSSG from siege. Something like that

[stoic garden]

would feel weird for both parties i'd say, the hologram timer gave the revived person a lot more time to react to what is happening

and what if you're doing some crazy movement shit then you decide to defib and stop like a car crashing on a tree, not very interactive

[ember condor]

do u guys think pike or famas is better?

[stoic garden]

pike

[ember condor]

thanks

[stoic garden]

kills faster and more range (i love balance) , kinda harder to use tho

[shell sonnet]

fair point

im still hoping for that map spawn point rework, but im open to ideas

[violet jacinth]

I know right, they would go perfect with Holtow stuff, by i also don't have a play station

[autumn dirge]

is there a medium gun that shreds heavy flamethrower?

[lusty rampart]

is there any game option to have ur character instantly swap back to ur gun after throwing a grenade?

[teal grotto]

Scar revo and repeator

[stoic garden]

repeater is actually kinda cheeks vs heavy

it takes 3 seconds to kill a heavy with only bodyshots 💀, only slower weapon is flamethrower with almost 4 seconds instead

akm can kill a heavy in half the time as repeater 💀

[coral rune]

@autumn dirge any gun that can play outside 10 m my guy. Nah but definitely revolver best against heavy. And yeah repeater is terrible against heavy

[rancid yew]

just press 1 if u are on pc and triangle if playstation

[worldly maple]

Resurrecting this idea because I’m bored

Imagine a Gyrojet pistol in the game, on the Medium class

In my mind, it would have travel time but if would gain damage at a farther distance

And also ricochet off walls cause that sounds funny

[proven compass]

Unfortunately heavy already has a rocket launcher

(If anything i could see this filling the hand cannon archetype for light)

[steel ice]

SO pumped for new guns!!!

[ebon mason]

odd they would release new guns next season with the majors and all that, but I'm not complaining

[eager wasp]

its really not bc you know they can just, ban the weapons from use, its not that hard

[ebon mason]

ig so

[soft steppe]

what new weapons are they adding season 8 ??

[lost plume]

Yes! I'm excited. I'm wondering if the p90 is going to be another Light gun or if Medium will finally get an smg

[soft steppe]

theyre adding the p90 ?

[lost plume]

Based on the teasers it looks like a big revolver and a p90, yeah

[haughty hearth]

what new things are we getting for the new season or have the not said anything

[lost plume]

Check #game-announcements for teasers, they haven't said much else

[haughty hearth]

ok thx

[lost plume]

Usually there's a third weapon; I hope it's weird

Love that they use really unique weapons in this game

[soft steppe]

does anyone know what guns will be emerald next season ?

[eager wasp]

bow, dual blades, sa1216

[viscid carbon]

are the lewis and m60 worth using over the shak-50 and akimbo deagles?

[polar cedar]

p90 for medium and .500 bfr for heavy (probably)

[haughty hearth]

hi

[stuck reef]

How will they change riot shield in the next season?

[hardy dust]

Ehhh. Shak is much stronger than all of those other options, but for long range lewis is a decent sidegrade to deagles.

[viscid carbon]

The Lewis has a funky pattern after a few rounds, and the M60 is ass at range

[plucky spade]

Fix the bug

[hardy dust]

Honestly its not too bad when you get used to it

Plus the first shots are pretty easy

[shrewd warren]

M60 is good for keeping enemies heads down.

[haughty hearth]

I need them to take the riot shield out the game

[near scroll]

point of lewis is its a jack of all trades, doesnt shred close range as hard as shak and doesnt poke quite as consistently at deagles but you can do both decently well

[indigo nexus]

What about this weapon would mean it was forcing a must pick?

[compact tundra]

The massive reload means deployable cover is necessary

[indigo nexus]

It can one tap light and medium, and bring a heavy to quick melee. And given that plenty of cover exists around the map already to utilise, and the existence of dome shield, goo grenade and goo gun, I don’t think this is really the case.

And on top of that, the weapon seems strong enough and adding a built in gadget to it would kind of conflict with the weapon design philosophy, that’s no better than forcing a pick anyway

[haughty hearth]

Hi

[last urchin]

exp mine, sonar sensor, and zipline

should i change anything

[frozen rose]

what classes are the new weapons for?

havent we only gotten 2?

[fierce herald]

Gif defi more range. The inconsystency of defib esp in movement is extremly annoying. And can be the diferent betwen win and lose.

[tiny glen]

p90 medium and revolver probably heavy even tho i hope its for light

[frozen rose]

prob

[hollow notch]

did I miss something because there is no recoil for ARN unlike last time I played?

[deft patrol]

i think the revolver will be for heavy considering what people think it will be

a revolver for light would be interesting might need to have a slower fire rate then the medium one and do more damage

[still tusk]

but that's just like..... the sniper rifle

[tiny glen]

more dmg means 1tap hs light

[deft patrol]

true

[stoic garden]

congrats on getting better

[little remnant]

I think the H+ Infuser could use a small buff. The downgrade from 20 → 15 feels a bit too harsh. When teammates are standing still it’s still strong, sure, but if you miss shots it feels really underpowered. A middle ground adjustment might keep it balanced without making it feel clunky.

[near scroll]

only thing they changed is recoil actually resets when you quick swap the mags now, otherwise its identical

[plucky spade]

Never cook again

[soft steppe]

thank you

[near scroll]

remove/rework smoke and thermal vision pwease

[sharp portal]

what happened to my beloved sledgehammer :C

[near scroll]

it got thrown under the bus by winch

[sharp portal]

how do you mean?

[near scroll]

many close range heby weapons have been nerfed, meanwhile the winch, a tool which lets you grab an enemy and put it into the ideal close range has not been changed

[sharp portal]

ah. so instead of nerfing winch they nerfed the weapons?

[near scroll]

ye

sledge, ks23, sa1216 are the biggest victims

[sharp portal]

awh man

[near scroll]

yea :(

[soft steppe]

they just nerfed them?

[oblique crypt]

Is KS23 really a close range weapon?

[sharp portal]

boooo

[soft steppe]

when did they nerf them?

[near scroll]

compared to other available heby weapons like the lmgs and deagles yea

projectile past 25m, bad dmg drop off, used to combo with quick melees and winch

(technically still combos with quick melee but dont tell embark ok?)

[near scroll]

over multiple patches. if you go to the THE FINALS™ wiki you can see all changes made to a weapon at the bottom of their page

[soft steppe]

thanks

[shell sonnet]

heard someone say thermal should have like red laser eyes
that sounded like a cool addition

outside of that, i think smoke needs some reliabilty qol
both usage and countering

[plucky spade]

Yes, thermal should have an indicator that can be seen through smoke

[near scroll]

what'd be the point then? you can see others but they can see you too

i think thermal can stay as an invis counter and it needs a visual indicator indeed but smokes as a whole are just stupid in a game centered on the steal interaction

[frank sorrel]

That's great actually, it will emphasize Lights thermal players to play outside the smoke and scan in smokes (from outside) if any ennemy is stealing cashout. That is fair

Right now it's just stoopid lights spamming smokes + camping in it and killing unfortunate ennemies that come in the smoke. without having the chance to fight back
It's too stoopid

[frank sorrel]

Exactly what i said above, prevent them from camping inside smokes, while still having the power to see thru it

Not like the light class is already very positioning-reliant.
Smoke + thermal right now just removes that from the light and reduces skill expression

(also they can turn it off whenver they want)

[near scroll]

i see your point but personally i find it frustrating to fight a thermal light while im in a smoke regardless of where the light is positionned

but yeah i just think concealment like that is stupid in a game about stealing the obj

ninja defuses are fine in cs cause everything about it is more restrictive :
smokes are smaller
in cs2 smokes can be interacted with in really consistent ways to outplay them
ttk and stk is much lower so dodging a few shots isnt as big a deal
the maps are static and the interaction range is smaller

also i still want m79 "thumper" grenade launcher on light
if u direct hit another light they evaporate

[shell sonnet]

no idea who ive discussed this with before
but i hope they turn smoke into a solid sphere (with some smokey wavy effect on the outside so it still looks good obviously)

you cant look into the smoke from outside
and if youre inside the smoke, any other person inside the smoke will be a decently recognizable gray silhouette

it gives it consistent counterplay, getting close

[indigo nexus]

Making that look good might be very hard. Do you have any examples of other games that have done this well?

[muted condor]

Smoke spammers when I pull out the mini gun and prox sensors

[shell sonnet]

imagine it like reverse thermail vision, everything is white, except enemies, which are black/gray ish

that would also remove the jank of grafic settings, lighting problems and explosive interactions

[indigo nexus]

Though you can already make smoke transparent in close quarters by chucking a grenade into it

[shell sonnet]

not at the top of my head sadly
idk how hard it would be, but it seems doable

[shell sonnet]

really unreliably in my experience

[frank sorrel]

I gotta disagree with you.
Ofc it's frustrating to fight in that situation because there is no way of having a slight idea where the light is: u can't see him inside the smoke, and if u take the time to leave the smoke and search for him outside, you will be already low hp. So ofc u just think to urself: guess i'll accept my fate

There's simply no counter to it and that's why this red glowy eyes idea is not bad: if u don't see them: the light is outside smoke/if u see them he's inside smoke. And you could play around that, even tho light will still have advantage So it's a fair nerf

And ninja steal in this game is what makes it exciting. Would be kind of boring of having to wipe everyone before every single steal ever

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. It seems to work easily enough in tests at least, but maybe it doesn’t work well with rough terrain and such

[frank sorrel]

but i agree smoke needs a counter, like explosives or something, right now it's very inconsistent.

[shell sonnet]

hmmm, actually
battle for neighborville might have something
give me a minute

[near scroll]

valorant does it with some of their smokes dont they? i think omen, the shadey teleport guy's smokes work like that iirc (been since valo beta lol so take w. a grain of salt)

nvm im stupid

but why not do that tho? why bother with making the inside of the smoke blurry?

[indigo nexus]

valorant smokes seem to look very simplistic graphically

[shell sonnet]

id rather have it be universal, that anybody can do
i dont wanna gamble a slot just in case someone runs smokes

[near scroll]

yea they are which makes them consistent, its a balancing act

[indigo nexus]

Right now if the inside of the smoke wasn’t blurry you’d be able to see right through it. Once inside the haze is the thing that blocks your vision, the smoke particles themselves are barely visible

and this also means you can see out of the smoke easily

[near scroll]

i mean we don't die in 15 seconds in this game dude, by the time you're done looking for the eyes and making the decision to leave the smoke he's already beamed you ngl

[near scroll]

sorry i should have added more words to make myself more understandable lol, so iirc omen smoke is essentially a spherical smoke screen, can't see inside from outside and vice versa, but the inside of the smoke is clear, no blur no nothing, that's what i was suggesting

[indigo nexus]

Smoke thermal isn’t great… You say that there is “no counter to it”, but any counter play which requires less than or equal to two gadgets can be considered a counter. Which includes things like using demat to bring the fight on to a different level, using anything AOE to tip the odds, or really anything else that takes the fight out of the smoke one way or another. For example winching the objective away from it

Or detection gadgets, which every class has access to

[muted condor]

Smoke has three counters

Why do people keep saying it has no counters?

[near scroll]

not the best picture but you get my point, the player is inside the smoke rn

[near scroll]

thermal motion sensors and what?

[modest lynx]

Bubbles smokes could be the move?

[indigo nexus]

Explosives, sonar nade, any play that pressures or forces the fight to take place outside of the smoke

[near scroll]

that's true. i just don't like when matchups are so polarizing

[muted condor]

Motion sensor, gas, and explosives

[near scroll]

encounter smokes with one of these counters? semi even fight

didnt equip any of those? ggs

[indigo nexus]

Personally as a spear user, smoke lights can be quite fun to encounter…

[near scroll]

lol true

[indigo nexus]

There aren’t many team comps that could reasonably exist where nobody has either any of those or any other utility that would render the smoker’s play useless. Which is a pretty wide solution space. Of course the latter is all situational stuff while the former will counter it broadly.

[muted condor]

Well if there’s an annoying meta and you do t bring something to prepare for it that’s on you

Besides there’s gas canisters around

[cunning slate]

I've got this idea fir a fireaxe on heavy.

The axe swings in a v-shaped pattern, right to left, left to right, etc. It has gradual damage based on where you hit in the arc. 55 min, 75 max. It can also be thrown to instantly destroy places items (turret, APS, ball, etc), and you have limited throws. You can pick up the axe to recover time on the throwable ones, or shoot the axe to lessen the earned time or destroy it. Thrown axes only do max damge when they hit someone, and auto break. Broken axes offer no time.

[near scroll]

smoke isn't meta tho its just fckin annoying lol

[near scroll]

i suppose it's a personal problem. i understand that technically speaking such polarizing matchups are acceptable because of the game's emphasis on teamplay and team composition but shit man sometimes i just wanna play my goofy off meta loadout and not get hard countered by the options with 90% pickrate (not saying smoke thermal is 90% pickrate)

[shell sonnet]

that argument been used time and time again
you cant prepare for literally everything

and even in those cases, you either waste your loadout to discover its not even used
or loose to it at least once before you can counter pick

[indigo nexus]

Wanting a perfect balance is reasonable but it will never happen :p

the smoke dude is also running an off meta gimmick loadout that can be hard countered

[near scroll]

especially bad in ranked with no mid round swapping obv, doesn't make sense to run a counter which might see use instead of a generally more applicable one

[near scroll]

for sure but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make changes to try and approach perfection :D

[plucky spade]

The point is that smoke is no longer an obstruction for you

[indigo nexus]

The problem wouldn’t exist in a perfect balance but I do not think weakening smoke thermal combo ultimately makes the balance better

In the ideal case every loadout will naturally have viable counter play to every possible other loadout

[plucky spade]

Sry for that im a bit irritable now

But yeah it doesn't lose its point, it just lets everyone now a thermal user is here

[near scroll]

? it still is tho, im not running thermal, so i cant see shit in the smoke, sure i might see eyes and have an idea of where to shoot but smoke is still very much obstructing my vision and thus decision makin

[shell sonnet]

hey, at least you know
remember to take a break if needed

[near scroll]

no worries i luv u still

[worthy wedge]

do people acutally use thermal vis i thought itt was a meme

[frank sorrel]

By counter, i literally mean COUNTER and not a lame motion sensor that can be quick meleed out of existence
Like the way u get rid of gas with fire, and get rid of fire with smoke

It's just sits there till times runs out

[near scroll]

which is why im pissed when devs make stuff that's so obviously polarizing matchup wise

see dash vs melee among other examples

[shell sonnet]

im so glad aps and taser got changed

[plucky spade]

What

[plucky spade]

Explosions ( usually )

[frank sorrel]

Really? Didn't know that
So a smoke is gone with a simple nade?

[shell sonnet]

on one hand, i understand that
ive had my odd crash out over dash while using melee before

but on the other hand, light is already faster than the other classes and should not need it
could be argued it makes it too easy, with little movement/positioning knowledge
but im a bit on the fence about it

[muted condor]

Good lord you give people a counter to what the complain about and they just say they don’t want to use that and keep complaining lol

“There’s no counter”
Gives multiple counters
“No I don’t care about those!”

[shell sonnet]

more like thinned and widened with extended lifetime from what i can tell

keep in mind, unless youre running cl-40 or mgl32, you only have 1 frag or 1 mine at a time, while they get 3 smokes and can reapply

[plucky spade]

It should at least become thinner, albeit sometimes it seems as if it moves around, but it will uncover the area.
A red can usually does the job

[plucky spade]

Smoke nades have a minute long cooldown

[shell sonnet]

because counterplay isnt only in item counters
its possible to make innate counterplay, that doesnt take specific loadouts

now you know that we have specific loadout preferences, and using items we dont find fun/dont want to use isnt well received

now what?

[muted condor]

Gas and red cans

[frank sorrel]

u didn't mention them, but sure

I'll keep a slot for perma motion sensor in my ranked games. So ultimately just having 2 gadgets slots to choose
And 1 in 2 games nobody will run smokes anyway

[plucky spade]

Just chuck a gas can in there from behind cover and you're good

[near scroll]

isnt the point of thermal to see others when they can't see you? so what's the point if you have glowing eyes that pop out through smokes and stuff, you're throwing a smoke down so people cant see, to then activate thermal so both you and your opp can see each other again

that's what confused me

[muted condor]

If there was a easy way to counter every gadget without needing gadgets there wouldn’t be a point in bringing gadgets

[shell sonnet]

random and spread around on the map
you dont know if the right ones are nearby
if they are, you need to fetch them
if you get them, the enemy has a chance to destroy them before you get to use them, if they dont kill you while youre running off to get them

[plucky spade]

No the point is to have clearer silhouettes and see through smoke, not be the belfast from the world renowned dogshit game world of warships

[near scroll]

yes my point is precisely that dash makes outplaying melee stupidly easy for the class thats already best suited to counter melee

if dash was 1 charge it'd be much fairer in a melee fight but rn its just stupid

how do you realistically die to a melee player as a light with 3 dash charges (unless you get winch sledge rpg'd cuz winch is balanced)

[plucky spade]

Lots of ifs and buts but the counter is there and available

[muted condor]

If you don’t want to rely on the map canisters and a bit of luck you’ll have to bring a counter in yourself that’s literally how everything works

[frank sorrel]

Once again, everything is destroyable (=counterable)
Except smoke, u just gotta wait till they're gone

[plucky spade]

Remember guys you can't win everything, even when you have the advantage

[near scroll]

i do not get the reference :(
i kinda see ur point but yea id rather thermal was just an invis counter ngl

[muted condor]

You can ether sacrifice a slot to hard counter or take your chances with what the map gives you

[worthy wedge]

this is a very whitebox training room type statement that doesnt really factor in what actually goes on during a game

[plucky spade]

Count your blessings type beat

[near scroll]

i was implying in a 1v1, sorry if that was not clear

[plucky spade]

Think about it though, the light ( because only a light is making non meme usage of smoke ) has to bring thermals as well, but with a map object, you completely destroy one gadget and render another less useful

[muted condor]

Not to be mean but you said the proc sensor is shit so most of your opinions can’t really be taken seriously

[shell sonnet]

thats my point
the ifs and buts almost entirely invalidate it

at some point its just an overwheling amount of ties and drawbacks that it shouldnt be realistically considered

[muted condor]

Exactly they have sacrificed two gadget slots to run this but there are multiple single gadgets and canisters that can stop it

[shell sonnet]

but should it work that way?

should you be forced to either not use what you want or rely on rng should someone randomly happen to run it?

when theres the possibility to to make it actually interactive and skill based?

[near scroll]

to play devil's advocate and use what i assume is your logic against you : would it be justifiable to have sledge left click one tap heavies because "shit happens its not only 1v1s"

[muted condor]

That’s literally how the entire game works

[shell sonnet]

just because it has been that way, doesnt mean its good, or couldnt be better

[muted condor]

Ok let’s just make it so you can melee smoke and it completely disappears from guess since no one likes to adapt

[plucky spade]

That's how countering works bro

I just think the glow would make it a bit more fair

[shell sonnet]

they had even more extreme examples before
aps hard countered cl-40, unless you had data reshaper or found a glitch barrel
so they added the hp mechanic

stun gun hard countered melee, even if you could technically use gadgets sometimes to cheese survival
so it got changed

[near scroll]

just make smokes a sperichal smokescreen istg

[frank sorrel]

A gadget that can be quick melee in 0.3s is not a counter, sorry to say. (+ 3 smokes charges for 2 prox sensores)
Especially with the fact that you have to gamble on the fact that people will run smokes in the first place.

Pretty much everything can be countered with a canister that's lying around. Except smoke + thermal
So no. I guess we won't be able to convince each other.

[muted condor]

Smoke does not completely invalidate entire play styles

[shell sonnet]

i am aware thats how countering would work
but again, should even be that way?

[muted condor]

Copper ass take lol

[frank sorrel]

Valid

[shell sonnet]

i am aware, i probably couldve added that towards the end

but its the same principle

[near scroll]

gas barrels my dude
i dont like relying on barrels for counters but if you're gonna bring em up gas in general counters smoke

[indigo nexus]

You don’t have to do it three times. You only need to kill the player or make their smoke useless. And note that smoke recharges very slowly compared to prox sensors.
It can be quick melee’d but that’s very efficient against them as it’s an easy opportunity to shoot them, so it was well worth it in that case - unless you just left it lying there, but in that case the intent was probably to register their presence at all.

Smoke does get somewhat countered by explosives.

Also note that efficiency is a key concept here

the light had to sacrifice two of their three gadget slots to make that play, if one does a good job at countering it, it’s super efficient

[muted condor]

So from what you guys are saying you want smoke to be counter able with every load out without any reliance on area items…

[indigo nexus]

And in general I think you are seriously overstating the power of a light hiding in a few meter radius bubble of smoke. They can’t move much without now being at a disadvantage, so they have to be positioned well, but the environment is also so dynamic that you can often easily make that positioning worthless

I genuinely do not think it is a very viable strategy at really any skill level, since it is not easy to use well and has a lot of counterplay / drawbacks

[shell sonnet]

would be good yeah
counterable
doesnt need to come without drawbacks

like, if we go with the fully opaque outside, silhouettes inside idea

you can either
try to spray from the outside and potentially loose
or get inside and be able to see them
but the light could still outplay that again, by staying at the edge of smoke and go outsdie if someoen else tries to counter you, and both end up dancing on the edge like with dome

[indigo nexus]

I do think a gradient approach is better, but the specifics are up for debate

I can’t say I know exactly how it works right now, though.

[shell sonnet]

its still useful
becomes more reliable
has reliable counterplay
and both parties get skill expression

[muted condor]

:|

[ancient pond]

(i did not realize i was in the wrong channel. i am sorry)

[near scroll]

yeah, i don't like getting punished by rock paper scissors mechanics in a "hero builder" or w.e the devs called it. making your loadout is important and getting RPS'd cuz u didnt run generic counter gadget is boring af

[muted condor]

So a play style they requires two gadgets slots that literally only do one thing should be completely hard countered by everything in the game lmao

[near scroll]

i personally want to remove thermal + smoke interaction and make smokes universally interesting and counterplayable

thermal can be relegated to invis counter or smth for all i care

[lofty wedge]

Is the silenced pistol good or am I wasting my time?

[near scroll]

also rework invis pls, literally just tf2 spy is good thanks 👍

[shell sonnet]

thermal vision itself is questionable to me
like, it hard counters cloak and gets to do smoke jank

[muted condor]

A light has to sacrifice half their loadout for a one trick play style that already has multiple counters

This just sounds like how lights used to complain about the cl40

[near scroll]

multiple counters you're not guaranteed to run into, and if someone switches to a counter cuz ure playing WT u can just switch too

[silver minnow]

Please add actual good gadgets for the medium, I’m tired of medium only being viable with defib and jump pad

[indigo nexus]

It's possible that a team brings nothing at all to deal with a certain gameplay mechanic. Do you think this is any different to, say, gas? A team can be effectively hard countered by proper gas usage if none of them have anything that deals with the situation. Or suspended structures.

[muted condor]

Glitch mine, prox sensors, and zip line

To name a few

[near scroll]

did you mean to reply to me? im confused

[shell sonnet]

ideally those would be different too

[indigo nexus]

Yes, but I now don't know if I interpreted you correctly

[muted condor]

He’s right, what happens if a triple heavy stack doesn’t bring a rpg or ks23 during a suspended structure map?

[shell sonnet]

actually, idea
what if gas* was bigger, but it cant actually kill you, leaving you at 1hp

pyro on a cashout is small enough you can capture without taking damage
we dont have that with gas
so maybe this is an idea

[near scroll]

suspended structures bad lol

[indigo nexus]

It would be best to remove such things but I do not think anything that would nerf them is a great plan, and it seems like the proposed smoke rework here is majorly biased towards making it much less useful.

[near scroll]

basically my problem is the efficacy, i don't deny triple heby no destruction should be at a disadvantage on suspended structures, but the disadvantage they're at is comical at this point, and i think this of multiple such cases

[indigo nexus]

I like that idea, actually

[muted condor]

If you’re a triple heavy stack with no ranged explosives it’s completely uncountable

[near scroll]

like it too, should be explored

[muted condor]

We need to remove suspended structures now

[near scroll]

i mean, yeah

suspended structures especially with the current objective spawns (90% of spawns being in the structure)

lead to very toxic gameplay

[shell sonnet]

still blocks sightlines
give it a shorter cooldown and it can be spammed to make passage and fights saver

[indigo nexus]

blocking sightlines is not really the main use for smoke in this game. That's more how it's used in more tactical shooters.

[muted condor]

Except its super easy to fight suspended structures, make sure to take a ranged explosive or find a red can, same thing as smoke

[shell sonnet]

stupid idea:

suspended structures get a grounded controle panel on the floor behind cover
and you can move it like a crane

[near scroll]

dude yes hahaha, crane operated suspended structures, need that on a new map for shits and giggles

[indigo nexus]

it more works as active cover for steals, revives, or close range combat where one player knows they will be advantaged by it, and obfuscation of plays

[muted condor]

A map with massive cranes that can move sections of the map would actually me sick

[near scroll]

my ranged explosive when the enemy uses explosives counter like aps : 🤯

[indigo nexus]

a triple M team all running APS could make a suspended structure very hard to take down, but it would be really quite the investment on their part!

[near scroll]

also if you wanna suggest getting 6 red barrels AT LEAST to bring down the 3 structures, that takes so long and is so unsafe you're giving them cash for free

[muted condor]

You would need three APSs to stop a structure from being dropped

[silver minnow]

Yes but almost of the time you use these in the third slot. It’s rare you see jumpad and defib be replaced.

[near scroll]

yeah but like, we bring one down and they rotate to the next one, now process restarts

how is that healthy gameplay lol

[shell sonnet]

it still doesnt that in my proposed idea
it just gets reliable counterplay in getting close, which often wastes time, or can get you rigth where you want them (melee, sh19000, etc)

but perhaps the gained consistency in usage can also make up for that slightly

[muted condor]

Defib is crazy over rated

[shell sonnet]

not even mentioning, theyre shooting at you
and if youre unlucky, they hit the propane and waste it instead

[muted condor]

Doesn’t matter if you dropped the cash out they have to come down to you now

[shell sonnet]

guns:

explosives, mines, grenades, rpg

[near scroll]

i forgot we were playing melee only sorry

[muted condor]

I don’t thing Iv actually had a hard time as a heavy attacking a team on suspended structure since season two

Shoot them back lol

[near scroll]

have you fought a competent team since s2? lol
no offense but anecdotal evidence cant be trusted

[rugged marten]

If heavy, just drop and shield and they have to come to you

[near scroll]

they have the advantage in that fight, you SHOULDN'T be winning, if you do it's an upset and its p cool

[muted condor]

I have to be real I think you all would have more fun in COD because that’s what it sounds like you want

[near scroll]

me when 3 ppl shoot my dome and it dies in 1 sec

[rugged marten]

Havent had that issue tbh

[muted condor]

Sucks that the game is always a 1v3 and dome is the only gadget available 😔

[near scroll]

iF yOU lIKe RoCK PapER ScISsoRs sO mUCh wHY doNT u gO pLaY oVeRWaTCh

[indigo nexus]

"reliable counterplay in getting close" is the entire problem. That's just too low a bar to make the gadget worth bringing over anything else which is much less counterable, smoke can't give you a big advantage if it's so simple to subvert. We already have reliable counterplay in map manipulation and a host of other loadout choices, which I think is plenty enough without smoke getting some other buff as well.

Just for some perspective, a frag grenade. They're potent and it is unlikely that the enemy team has explicit counters. Same goes for many others, they have less counters than smoke does. So, if smoke is way more counterable, it needs to be way more potent than them with regards to its overall ability to win. Right now I don't think that this is the case.

[muted condor]

People just hate adapting on the go these days

[boreal moat]

guys hear me out

can we just get MP7 for light or medium?

please embark

[near scroll]

dude, ive made it clear i don't mind counterplay as a whole, i dislike lopsided odds due to unhealthy matchups/game mechanics

[indigo nexus]

Better than you dying in 1 sec? Sounds like it did a good job, if your own team of 3 people got a second of free damage.

[near scroll]

the context of this was fighting a team thats on suspended structures while you're on the ground with cash and not much more time

keep things in context pls else we can just quote each other to try and make ourselves look dumb

[indigo nexus]

Oh, sorry, I did indeed not read that correctly

[shell sonnet]

thing is, for frag, you dont even need a specific counter
if you see it flying, you jump out of the way (when it isnt being an invisinade anyways...)

and like, maybe theres some options for buffs we would explore on smoke?
maybe it would end up weak if it was added like that, i wouldnt want that
i just want there to be innate counterplay

what buffs do you think would make it strong to still be balanced with this?

[near scroll]

no worries. just need to make sure people actually get what i mean if i want my typing to be productive

[muted condor]

The enemy using map advantage is toxic now 😭

[boreal moat]

im confused, is that bad thing or

[near scroll]

the map design is toxic and at fault, cant blame comp players for abusing it as comp players always do

[muted condor]

Team play and positioning in my competitive team shooter? How detestable

Before we know it people will start to controls recoil too

[near scroll]

alright brogon i'll stop now, this is really pointless and infantilizing

you're not even arguing anymore just slandering

https://tenor.com/view/big-cat-gif-23377047

[indigo nexus]

Everyone has jumping but frag nade can still be devastating to a player who knows this when used correctly. But the thing is, smoke is similar - pretty much no matter what your loadout is, the presence of smoke will not force your team to take a fight on the enemy's grounds, unless you have an unusually ill-suited team composition for the task at hand. Kind of need a specific scenario to be more specific, though... but I've kind of said this already. Since smoke is a contextual support tool which stays in one place, it becomes useless as soon as you make wherever the smoke currently is no longer a useful place for either it or them to be.

I don't really know what a good way to buff it would be, though.

Issue is with bigger area of effect, shorter cooldowns etc, is that it can become quite spammy, I think smoke everywhere on a whim means a lot of ways of being able to counter it start to matter a lot less

[versed finch]

Shorter cooldown? It takes forever to get all 3 grenades back. it's just more effective to die at that point

It doesn't need to be insanely short, maybe taking off like 2-3 seconds could help

[shell sonnet]

but it also wouldnt matter as much, because getting close it reliably

[indigo nexus]

So it became more of an annoyance than anything else.

Smoke should be devastating when used at the right place and time, in my opinion, for it to be generally fun

[shell sonnet]

there is also high ground

with explosives being less impactful, and getting close being the intended counterplay, you could actually get someone down from the rooftops

[indigo nexus]

And such scenarios shouldn't have to be more niche and specific than they are for all the other powerful gadgets

[shell sonnet]

or using it to close the gap for melee

[indigo nexus]

I don't really know what you mean by this.

[near scroll]

"smoke will not force your team to take a fight on the enemy's ground" yeah but smokes are also often thrown on cash, which you need to push

[shell sonnet]

being on rooftops is strong
making closing the gap the counterplay forces people to get off of the roof tops

[indigo nexus]

it is a good thing that the cashout can be moved, and that many methods of its defence are not really affected by it.

[shell sonnet]

i could also see a recharge buff (and a duration nerf?)
less costly to use

to extinguish fire
to quickly cover yourself during a revive
cover a sightline
etc.

[shell sonnet]

how many things move cashouts again?
winch, demat, goo gun, gravity cube and vortex?

[indigo nexus]

Right now smoke works at obfuscating shots from a long range anyway, but I don't think it would make going into close quarters a good idea in many cases

[shell sonnet]

thats part of what i mean tho
not everything gets worse

and maybe if we off-set it a little more, it can be in a healtheir, still decently useful spot

[shell sonnet]

I don't think it would make going into close quarters a good idea in many cases
like, that people want to stay on the roof?
thats part of it
they either cant get you in the smoke, or have to give up their superior positioning
(if i understood you correctly, but this is part of what i intend to happen)

[indigo nexus]

those and other explosives, but do not ignore the second part, as we also have several weapons, several gadgets (detection gadgets and other AOE things, and gas), and also charge and slam which are effective against attempting to use smoke to cover a steal and similar things

[shell sonnet]

i feel like were circling back around to rock paper scissors hard counters...

[indigo nexus]

I am trying to think about why this would change anything really, because loadout-wise the same players are still going to benefit from a smoke brawl like that in about the same way. It would be a bad idea to rush into smoke against a team that had set it up if they planned for that, before and after such a change.

[shell sonnet]

exactly
knowing the enemy can counter smoke by getting into it, allows you to plan ahead and make use of it
it might actually help smoke in certain ways

like, realistically, what changes for smoke if we make this change

[near scroll]

i agree on a surface level but the problem is again efficacy/efficiency (i forger), in order to move cash i need to push up to it while its smoked :/ (winch, pad shenanigans, lockbolt dragging all have limited range)

[indigo nexus]

Makes smoke bad for hiding, and makes it awkward to brawl around

[shell sonnet]

currently
sometimes smoke is completely see-through, even from the outside
sometimes you get to see other people while youre inside it
and other times, its almost completely opaque

[indigo nexus]

The smoke does also help you do this, I'm not sure if this is a significant factor and if it is, I'm not sure in what direction this ultimately pushes it. If you are aware of roughly where the enemy is it becomes easier to get close to them to stop a steal by whatever method thanks to the smoke, too.

[rugged marten]

Sometimes the game gets opaque even when noone threw a smoke (when ned yeets a building)

[shell sonnet]

but it isnt reliably for hiding right now as is

and id argue making it reliably actually makes it less akward, because you know what to expect

not randomly getting non-existent smoke, or an actual white screen

[indigo nexus]

It is indeed not perfect right now, but I do not understand exactly why.

[shell sonnet]

might be related to lighting, but this is the exact kind of inconsistency that drives me off running it

id use smoke a lot more if i could actually know what to expect
and reliably make use of it

[indigo nexus]

It's a lot more reliable than having it become useless as soon as an enemy gets within a certain range I'd say. It makes sense that how hard you are to see should depend on how close you are to them. It's pretty reliable so long as the enemies don't have thermal or anything

[shell sonnet]

i mean, maybe that could be combined
making the silhouettes fade out if youre too far away in the same smoke grenade
but at least it should be reliably counterable if done right

[indigo nexus]

That is pretty much what it's supposed to do right now

[shell sonnet]

and the idea is intended to that more reliably
(i hope i didnt mess up trying to get my idea across lol)

[near scroll]

debris smoke can fuck off seriously lol
idk if im alone but man the number of times where i thought to myself : i legit can't see shit is crazy

[outer cove]

New weapon prediction: HK G36 assault rifle

[near scroll]

unless thermal, which i thought we were talking about but maybe im crazy

and yea in a world without thermal id be mostly fine with smokes but id still think theyre very cheesy and stupid when it comes to ninja steals

[clear vale]

New teaser I don't get it help

[proven compass]

It’s just a destruction system revamp

I’d assume map props will do more damage to the map

[muted condor]

Honestly the revolver is way more convincing

[proven compass]

(Also if you look at the map you can see the sponsered buildings have changed to match the new season’s, holtow and trentila)

[proven compass]

Yeah i’m 100% a revolver believer
this is just a shitpost about people saying it’s a G36

[muted condor]

There is a very small chance it’s a shotgun but it’s doubtful

[proven compass]

An over under sporting shotgun would be cool
but
you can also explicitly hear the sound of a hammer being pulled back at the start

That’s pretty much 100% a single action revolver

[plucky spade]

it's a heavy revolver, damn

we got a 6 shot heavy weapon already....

[obsidian nexus]

93r still broken

[versed finch]

New physics, new weapons, new kill cam, am I missing anything?

[sudden pewter]

What I love most??? Theyre adding more goth cosmetics with fishnets

https://tenor.com/view/rage-emoji-rage-gif-3851471549750385303

[soft steppe]

wait really ?????

[shell sonnet]

where did they show that again?

[sudden pewter]

I forwarded it bro 😭
It’s right there

[daring helm]

How many new weapons are we getting? I thought it was 2 but with the sound at the beginning idk

[shell sonnet]

im going to fill your room with goo

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/harry-potter-swole-gym-lifting-yoked-gif-27561206

Oh they’re revamping destruction. Again.

[shell sonnet]

pretty sure thats the destruction they originally teased
also used a different clip of the crane again

[versed finch]

Noted, do not go to #👂┇game-feedback

[proven compass]

BFR is a five shot

[sudden pewter]

The destruction was revamped early this season

[slow linden]

Game feedback is where lights go to cry when someone who isn't a light dares to kill them

[blazing flume]

Any theories on what the emerald and ranked rewards might be?

[slow linden]

Ruby rpg skin when?

Emerald goo gun skin when?

[covert pebble]

I want them to reward tickets for getting emerald or ranked so you can redeem it on whatever you want. I think it's so stupid how fomo the ranked skins are. You will NEVER get a diamond m11 unless you played during the beta. it makes no sense to me

Like still give people the badge that says what season they reached a certain rank, that part can be exclusive, but why gatekeep weapons that are pretty much picked by random each season

And what if the weapon for something like diamond isn't even a weapon you play? The grind is pointless to you

[shut bane]

If new revolver doesn’t one tap a light to the head I’m crying

[shell sonnet]

If new revolver one taps a light to the head I’m crying

[slow linden]

Agreed,headshots should be rewarded

Headshots with everything except maybe flamethrower

[muted condor]

If cry I’m revolver new

[slow linden]

I dabble in revolver now and when,really hate that it not onetapping light to the head encourages laziness

Why head dink them if the ttk is the same as just shooting them

[muted condor]

Pretty sure it’s one shot faster

Idk tho because I usually land at least one head shot

[stoic garden]

it is

[slow linden]

I try to headshot at all times,even with something like the minigun and even weapons without crits

[stoic garden]

if ur teammates dealt any sort of chip dmg they just die

[slow linden]

True

[stoic garden]

btw today I decided to play light, played super crazy wt round with a friend, and i dont think I've ever Been this invested in a match

final round i just unleashed the lh1 poke beast and we nearly won

[sudden pewter]

The corruption will be your end.

[slow linden]

I'm a very aggressive medium though,I play medium and heavy like I'm playing light,I'm usually first in the fight

[muted condor]

I played a little bit of light yesterday

[stoic garden]

i am too irrational to care

[slow linden]

Truth

[muted condor]

Still like medium and heavy better but damn H+ is insane

[slow linden]

Trades are so funny

[shell sonnet]

Light mains when their ""aura"" poison aoe ticks once

[thick holly]

You're the opposite of me, I'm a very support focused medium lol

[shell sonnet]

Always love to die to someone, and have them run sideways into my still airborn mgl round

[stoic garden]

my friend is a real aggressive medium, me helping him with infuser and long range poke he does it even more...

[slow linden]

I can't be bothered to run defib or heal beam I just don't think to heal

[thick holly]

Lol

[slow linden]

With heavy I place my orb cause I am not being healed,it helping my team is incidental

[thick holly]

I just like playing support role, also works out surprisingly well in soloQ

[muted condor]

Defib more like deflipping not use that on me

[thick holly]

I try to have decent defibs, but occasionally there are panic moments where I use it

[muted condor]

If I’m playing light feel free to defib me when ever but for the love of god stop defibbing heavies T_T

[slow linden]

I fucking hate being defibbed to my death,brainless medium teammates always mash defibs when they're even remotely threatened

[shell sonnet]

Tdm defib

[slow linden]

I feel like defib specifically should be tied to heal beam so I can't be defibbed without heals

[slow linden]

They're just doing challenges

I don't really take tdm seriously enough to care it's just for challenge grinding

[thick holly]

How I typically defib in a 3v3 when one goes down is.
Pull the totem into cover, defib, heal the alive teammate, the moment my other team mate is back heal them

[slow linden]

Another thing I hate is defib training medium trios

[thick holly]

Yea

[slow linden]

It's annoying to fight unless you have way too many mines and a heavy with winch

[muted condor]

Personally I think the only time you should defib a heavy is if we’re down to the last 10 seconds of a cash out

[thick holly]

I would love to swap out defibs when I use other builds. But sadly defibs is seen as a must on medium

[slow linden]

My favorite weapons on medium are as follows,revolver,cerb,dual blades,cl40,and riot shield,and the only ar on medium I will ever be caught using is the famas,because I find ar gameplay brainless,and at least the famas is unique

[cunning slate]

ATP, just make them a spec.

[hardy dust]

Honestly you can go without em

The only gadget on medium I find is a must pick is jumppad imo

[thick holly]

Fair enough

I use defibs for my main build cuz it actually works well with me being a purely support role

I use zipline instead of jump pad because it has more uses for how I personally play

[slow linden]

I rarely even run that 😭

I like putting mine clusters on zipline routes

[stoic garden]

pad is so crucial to my medium gameplay, it's too versatile to drop

[muted condor]

I don’t run jump pad, zip, or defib on my medium

[slow linden]

Me neither

Glitch trap is my must use on medium

[lone wing]

Crossbow Ingame when?

[sudden pewter]

I gotta get the revive 50 teamates challenge done

[ember condor]

xp54 or arn-220 or 93r? (in general)

[versed finch]

All are great choices, personally I like the XP the most

[ember condor]

same i just wanted to see others’ opinions

[versed finch]

93R is insane if you can land the bursts

and ARN has great mid range potential

[ember condor]

i like using the famas more than the 93r since it has less recoil and is rly powerful with demat

[slow linden]

93r Is really fun,it's also one of my favorite irl handguns

[ember condor]

true but many engagements in my lobbies are close-mid range so xp is best for me

[versed finch]

Well those weapons are 2 different classes... but the famas has less recoil and better hipfire

[ember condor]

yeah it’s just i dont rly like burst weapons

[versed finch]

Same, I ususally run V9S with XP in reserve, or Pike with AKM, and M60 with Shak

Embark has put some gems in this game

[ember condor]

i run xp with m11 in reserve, pike with famas, shak with m60

[versed finch]

I don't get why like 80% of medium players run the AKM, FCAR and FAMAS... Pike can outdamage and outrange all 3

[ember condor]

i solo queue so i rarely run heavy

[ember condor]

it is not as good at close range cuz of the zoom and hipfire but i just learned how to use it at close range and it is a demon

[versed finch]

I usually play the opposite of what my team is. I only play PS so my loadouts are tuned for it mainly

[ember condor]

pike and xp are my favorite weapons to use rn

[versed finch]

The zoom doesn't really harm you all that much at close range, but the hipfire can be a bit annoying, it misses like 4 out of the 12 shots

[ember condor]

yeah true for me it is hard to hit dashing lights tho with the zoom

[versed finch]

EMBARK ADD MORE GAMEMODES IN A ROTATING ARCADE SYSTEM THAT REFRESHES EVERY WEEK PLEASE

[ember condor]

YES

[versed finch]

Like domination, BANK IT (ILL PAY SO MUCH FOR IT BACK), FFA, CTF

Maybe I should get a job at Embark... I would just have to move...

Like why are all of fmy fav studios in stockholm?

[shell sonnet]

please just go ps and blow yourself after using defib or som 😭 🙏

[ember condor]

lol true

[sudden pewter]

Nah I’m getting my BOYS up

[shell sonnet]

youre virtually tieing them to a tree to be executed by firing squad while you catch the strays

[sudden pewter]

Nah not me. I’m dragging them behind cover

Jiggles 👏 when 👏 I 👏 walk 👏

[shell sonnet]

oh, someone actually doing the bare minimum?
what a nice change of pace

[sudden pewter]

Goo nade makes instant cover and blocks LoS

[woven sequoia]

Am i the only one that prays for a demat nerf tomorrow? I'm tired of having to run it every match just because it's so effing good compared to the other options and the easiest way to counter itself when others use it

[shell sonnet]

i think it may have gotten a small delay before it actually opens up

[arctic remnant]

Why nerf something when you can make everything else better? If your biggest problem is it’s the only good option, but a good nerf or counter is to be able to glitch the walls into closing.

[runic wing]

👍 👍

[sudden pewter]

I understand the mindset, but if the two options are buff every weapon to absolutely stupid states or nerf a single weapon back into line the latter is preferable. (Post buff Cerberus was absolutely insane)

[shell sonnet]

what he said 👆

doesnt always work

[glossy sun]

Is there any Info yet on the New weapons...?

[shell sonnet]

people assume its a revolver and p90

[sudden pewter]

Demat is just too good atm. HealBeam doesn’t need a buff, it just isn’t as powerful as Demat. Turret needs a rework or some drastic changes.

[glossy sun]

Hope it's not a revolver for Heavy...

[sudden pewter]

Praying it’s a delayed trigger revolver that allows me to OHK Lights. Call it the “flyswatter”

[glossy sun]

I can see P90 short snub barrel

[shell sonnet]

i hate 1-shots

[sudden pewter]

The nefarious dagger/SH:

Hear ye hear ye 🔔
Lights are allowed to one shot, but not be one shot

[thick holly]

I think a very slight delay before opening would be good for demat. My current issue with the demat is that sometimes you can not react to it at all. Even just a split second to hear the noise before it actually opens would feel a bit more fair

[glossy sun]

Cause why give a Heavy a Revolver when it already has the Akimbo Deagles?

[shell sonnet]

dagger has counterplay

sh1900 is borderline problematic

[shell sonnet]

at least they only 1-shot eachother

(except for dagger)

[glossy sun]

Just feels like a straight downgrade.

[sudden pewter]

Dawg it isn’t even out yet and you’ve decided you don’t like it?

[glossy sun]

What think there gonna add that old western cliche that it will bounce on walls?

Ricochet Revolver Cowboy style?

[sudden pewter]

Let Embark cook. If it comes out of the kitchen mooing we can always send it back

[glossy sun]

LOL

[thick holly]

Honestly that would be funny yet interesting. like the MGL but as a gun

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1205760412507840572/1382867848552124488/1x.webp

My money is on delayed trigger. I could see a ricochet SMG or AR but not a revolver

Not without some insane bullet magnetism

[glossy sun]

Well it could have that or goes through walls if they do that other than that I don't see what can they do...

[arctic remnant]

Might have server problems like dual blades idk

[thick holly]

One idea I do think that could be cool for a gun but I don't even know how it would be balanced. A gun with a bayonet on the end of it

It would be like a combo ranged and melee

[glossy sun]

With increased Melee damage but poke damage on gun

Correct?

[thick holly]

I'm not sure honestly

I don't know the logistics of balancing it within the game, but it could be a cool idea if done correctly

[lost plume]

Give the Cerberus knuckles

[glossy sun]

Like the skin that makes one the Handle?

[lost plume]

Oh idk I was just bouncing off the bayonet idea

Hunt has shotguns with axes welded on which are tons of fun

[sudden pewter]

That’s called a “bastard weapon” and I’m against such things purrsonally because it complicates baselines for weapons

[thick holly]

Yeah I figured it would probably be annoying

But as a concept it would be interesting. Maybe "if" it was added it could be balanced in a cool way

[lost plume]

Put a bayonet on the lh1 and maybe people would use it

[sudden pewter]

I’d wait for melee to not be in a disastrous state before we consider mixing melee/ranged weapons into unholy amalgams

[lost plume]

Haha fair

[glossy sun]

Hell do we even know if it's a revolver heavy is getting?

[sudden pewter]

No, we have suggestions with evidence but no confirmations until tomorrow

[glossy sun]

Imagine it's a Rail gun and Embark was trolling

[sudden pewter]

This

This too

[jolly pine]

That's just how Ks23 plays

[thick holly]

With quick melees?

[jolly pine]

yes, you can 2 shot mediums and 3 shot heavies if you combo with quick melees

but you need to do the gadget swap technique

[glossy sun]

KS doesn't do justice... Not for me anyways.

[thick holly]

KS23 seems fun, I wanted to learn how to play it but I was not having any success with it

[jolly pine]

Ks is just bad, i have been trying to make it work but is just not wort using it if you want to win

[glossy sun]

Is it inconsistent bullets or just getting out DPS?

[jolly pine]

you get out DPS from everything

[thick holly]

I'm not an FPS player, never have been, so general aiming is something I still struggle with

I only started playing this game because my friends REALLY wanted me to play it. Melee weapons has been the only way I can actually enjoy the game lol

[glossy sun]

A little practice will trigger that Muscle to aim DW I was the same.

[thick holly]

I have been exploring into ranges options more, I've been oddly liking the repeater

[jolly pine]

Ks is like a glorified melee, but the skill floor of the weapon is huge

[thick holly]

Isn't the shots to kill similar to riot shield?
2-lights
3-mediums
4-heavy

[jolly pine]

yea, light is going to always be 2 shot, you can reduce the stk of medium and heavy with melee combos but is really inconsistent

[thick holly]

Alrighty

Cuz I know from facing off against KS players that their shots do 100, and riot shield does 90

So I figured the math would be similar

[glossy sun]

Speaking of is Riot getting fixed?

[thick holly]

If the riot shield passive block hitbox gets fixed, I think there should be a slight buff to active block

Because the active blocking is more situational in how a lot of high level riot shield players use it

[glossy sun]

Think not.... Guess I take my Anger out on them with my Arson.

[thick holly]

Lol

The way I play riot shield, I do use the actual block mechanic more than others. But it can be annoying when im holding up the shield and they still hit headshots

[glossy sun]

I just run at people sideways blocking there shots without the M2

[thick holly]

Yeah that's how riot shield is typically played. I still do that a lot too

Just my playstyle I hold up the shield more than others

if it actually provided more protection than passive blocking then I think people would be using that mechanic

[glossy sun]

Idk much about Riot Aside that Sideways trick I use Heavy mostly....with a Minigun....

[thick holly]

I main riot shield. Honestly it's a lot of fun, but people just don't know how to counter it

[glossy sun]

Shoot there toe out

[thick holly]

Like if I'm using other weapons, I don't have that much of an issue with riot shield because I know how to counter it lol

[glossy sun]

Burn them.

Mines...

[thick holly]

like they will still kill me more often cuz I'm not good at ranges weapons. But they aren't as much of an issue for me as people say they are

[glossy sun]

You should at least use a shotgun.

[thick holly]

Yeah I think I'm gunna try KS23 out a bit more

[glossy sun]

Like if change is needed

[thick holly]

I don't play to win, I just like being in the game

[glossy sun]

That's one I will never touch again lol...

[thick holly]

I like the utility of it

[glossy sun]

I could be at 5m and still miss Deadass

[thick holly]

Oof

Or I could be funny and learn MGL

[glossy sun]

Atleast MGL is fun and can pop people

KS nah none of that.

[spring spear]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-5132983713244395301

[thick holly]

Two of my friends we play with. Our team comp has MGL in it and it works surprisingly well

Sniper, Riot Shield, MGL. It works decently well since we all cover each others weak points

[jolly pine]

@thick holly This is the fastest ttk you can get with ks against mediums and heavies

Besides that there is no way of getting more dmg, i still think this gun needs headshot mult to be viable

[thick holly]

Ah nice

[glossy sun]

Even with that how about a moving target

[thick holly]

Good to know. Riot shield does somewhat have QM combos, but I don't think it's that much faster

The only QM combo I use on riot shield is to destroy ziplines almost instantly

[boreal pike]

Thoughts on winch claw being re worked to where you can grab team mates as well, minus the damage you give obviously. Buddy who mains heavy swears up and down there have been a lot of moments he could have saved our 3rd or myself out of sticky situations, not as a countermeasure to bad plays, but sort of just having the option to use the winch other than aggro or anti-steal.

[jolly pine]

you only do the melee combos if you are point blank, besides that is just shooting and hoping the enemy doesn't hit most of his shots

[thick holly]

I think that would lead to trolling over actual team play sadly

In theory yes it would be really cool, but you know it's gunna be used to grief people's own teammates

[boreal pike]

I mentioned this as well. Kinda like how pyro or gas can be used. He thinks other wise, but yet again he’s still somewhat new lol

[jolly pine]

winch needs a nerf, and the rework sounds good but it can be really annoying in team fights

[boreal pike]

I don’t think it needs a nerf necessarily, but I would like to see the capabilities to be expanded maybe. You can grab debris, but it has a weight to it which I feel the heavy should be able to counter.

[thick holly]

Maybe a winch rework could be like having a slight wind up period similar to the bow. Longer you hold it in for the further it goes? Would also come with a sound queue so people further away know what's about to happen

[jolly pine]

Every heavy uses winch on ranked, and the alternatives get hard countered by winch (mesh shield/C&S) the only one that doesn't suffer from this is goo gun

[shell sonnet]

That sounds fun tbh

[thick holly]

And it could reward you for getting longer ranged winches that way since you are putting yourself at more of a risk. So maybe a slightly longer stun period? I'm not sure I don't play winch

[thick holly]

Yeah it's worth a try with some friends. It's also good if the riot shield is a healing beam player

[jolly pine]

I agree with the range, not that much with the stun

[thick holly]

Fair enough

Honestly I block a lot of winches with the riot shield, so I don't know how bad the stun from it actually is

[boreal pike]

On that note towards mesh, yes. Mesh should counter winch. Cn’S in my opinion needs a rework overall that gives you maybe like a charge up. Like a bull stomping in place, charge to where you want it, and then let it rip while still giving you the ability to turn. Allow it to counter winch grab but not its poke dmg. My thoughts.

[jolly pine]

I like the rework idea, but i don't think they are reworking C&S soon, the spec is only used in casual play and i don't think they care enough to make it better

[boreal pike]

With embark I’ve learn to never say never, but as of right now you’re absolutely correct. If we get the usual seasonal treatment with weapons, modes and quality of life updates I’m sure by S10 the game will have flipped on its head again like it did from S3-S4 and recently with the cross-class healing.

[jolly pine]

Tbh they take a lot of time to fix everything comp/meta related, pike has been a problem for a really long time, same with winch, both of this items are not healthy for the competitive integrity of the game and they are still meta even after the multiple complains of high level players

[sudden pewter]

Healing Emitter is totally fine. H+ is problematic

[jolly pine]

Light is on a decent spot except H+ infuser, they need to do something about that gadget next season

[sudden pewter]

It should have been dealt with this season. It had obvious issues even in design. How Embark thought it okay to release is beyond my comprehension

[boreal pike]

I sense no lie

Really tho, H+ is extremely annoying.

[jolly pine]

This is so true, they just release stuff and hope they are not broken

[sudden pewter]

They nerfed the healing from 400 to 300. That’s great, awesome. But it didn’t fix the issue. It’s too much healing, too fast, without any risk.

[glossy sun]

Why is Medigun sucks while Infuser is better...

BUFF THE MEDIGUN

[sudden pewter]

At least with the HealBeam the Medium needs to be within proximity of the patient. The H+ only needs LoS and within 1.45s they’ve fully healed the target and the team snowballs due to health diff.

[jolly pine]

Tbh i don't want a heal gun meta, i experience the doble heal gun meta of s2 and it was horrible

[boreal pike]

I hate to say it, but in a lore sense…..it kinda makes sense. Not giving them any benefit of doubt but an arena game show just tossing in new things to keep the audience and views up….huh huh

[sudden pewter]

HealBeam does not need to be buffed. H+ needs to be reworked/nerfed further.

[glossy sun]

Well if there gonna stick with the infuser like that and not Nerf it Buff the Medigun then

[boreal pike]

Didn’t we talk about healing beam giving health back to its user?

[sudden pewter]

HealBeam should never be outshined in its one fucking niche (healing) by a GADGET RAAAAAGH

[sudden pewter]

No, and that’s dumb and stinky.

[boreal pike]

Well RAHHHHGGGGHHHH back at ya then slick

[glossy sun]

Hell whats the use for The Heal Beam then.

[boreal pike]

NGL I’d like to see it. I’ll be that stinky loser

[gritty swallow]

What do yall hope we get in the balance changes tommorow?

[glossy sun]

Change it to a Gadget and give a different Specialization at that point cause it has no use.

[boreal pike]

I’m not saying take away the team healing, I’m say give heals to the user as well, this is all if they don’t touch h+ in theory

[glossy sun]

Nerf Double Barrel.

[jolly pine]

Pike and winch nerf

[sudden pewter]

Healing. The problem is:

• HealBeam is worse than the H+ at its one job. But it takes a spec slot while H+ is a gadget.
• Demat is so powerful most mediums don’t even consider the HealBeam.

[jolly pine]

and a ks buff

[gritty swallow]

What did dubbel Barrel ever do to you?

[sudden pewter]

Existed.

[jolly pine]

Also demat is more fun to use

[glossy sun]

1 light One shotting my medium and light and then 2 shot me.

A literal 1v3.

[gritty swallow]

Realy didn't expect that from you

[glossy sun]

No help from the other 2.

[sudden pewter]

I exclusively run HealBeam on my Medium. Not because I’m a contrarian or don’t realize how strong Demat is, but mending a Heavy before natural regen kicks in is huge.

[boreal pike]

I enjoy pocketing a heavy with heals and watching him just run through shit tbh lol pretty cinematic

[glossy sun]

Like I understand The M26 shotgun that can do damage from Close and mid but a Shotgun tht does 195 damage just by running in close and out DPS any gun is Absurd.

[muted condor]

I actually started playing some light and it’s a way better support class than medium in every way

[sudden pewter]

Who’d have thought the hypermobile archetype with a gadget that does what the healing spec does but better and with less risk, would be a better support

[muted condor]

It’s easier to revive, heal, and has team movement options

[sudden pewter]

Team movement option

[muted condor]

True

[hardy dust]

Now that double heavy isnt good and heal got gutted yeah, h+ just absolutely blasted the coffin shut

[frozen moss]

Show us them new guns embark! My balls are turning blue!

[plucky spade]

Zipline isn't?

[sudden pewter]

Light doesn’t have access to Zipline.

[plucky spade]

Ah we talking bout lights

[sudden pewter]

DUMMY!!!!!