💣┇weapons-gadgets

[slim thistle]

What's your opinion on the sword? I see it's a bit of a shadow of it's former self and that Embark added changes to it recently

[sudden pewter]

It’s objectively worse as it deals less damage and the clamp limits a Lights ability to do driveby maneuvers

And tbh I feel the game is better for it

It’s still useable

[slim thistle]

And fun tbh

I just need to learn it more

And I agree with the less damage as it takes like 2 hits to kill a light, 3 or 4 hits to kill a medium and 4 or 6 hits to kill a heavy.
I just need to test the dmg again

[sudden pewter]

It’s not a bad weapon, just not as strong as it once was

[slim thistle]

Yep, it's a niche one nowadays

And hard to use with bad lag

[lavish swallow]

its like... if you are new, im sure it feels fine to you. But for 90% of sword users this angle lock is horrid. I stopped playing sword because of it. I barely play the game anymore.

All it takes is for someone to slightly move, with a slide jump or dash, etc, and you miss and they just win the fight.

[slim thistle]

I started in the end of season 4 and a bit of season 5 then stopped and now back again in season 7

[slim thistle]

Yes, that's annoying to deal with

But who knows? Embark might make it more viable but probably not back to how it was

[dense oasis]

Balisong/Butterfly Knife skin for Dagger when??? 😩

[normal ice]

V9S is probably my most-used Light weapon, and I don't really think the manual tapping is too fast for me to do consistently, nor do I feel it throws off my aim at all. I just think it's fucking annoying.

I wish it could simply be full-auto. I'll take a damage nerf or whatever to compensate.

and yes, carpal tunnel syndrome is always a valid concern

[faint flower]

What's the different between the AKM and Fcar? I can't check their stats rn but they seem really similar, except Fcar has a smaller mag

[stable whale]

Fcar hits a little harder, has a slower fire rate, and recoils a bit more

[normal ice]

fcar has longer range, too

there's a wiki btw

[obsidian nexus]

XP-gain over time is extremely lobsided. gasmine takes a million years to level up. meanwhile jumppad u can level up a new level the first few weeks of the season. please adress this

[normal ice]

aps and the healing gadgets are also atrociously slow

[sudden pewter]

You need to make a gateway something like 14,000 times to get it to max if memory serves

Definitely askew and worthy of change I totally agree

[dusk garden]

any cool goo gun techniques that i can use that haven't been patched yet?

[faint flower]

The one I can think of is goo an enemy in place as they run away so they can't escape, then kill them (happened to me a lot)

but that's all I know

[shell sonnet]

Bit of a long shot, but:

Place a c4 on the ground
Cover it in goo
Spam mines on the goo
Once someone is below it, detonate to drop the mines on them

(If you wait long enough, you can throw a 2nd c4 on it, and detonate the first one before the 2nd one charges up, allowing you to detonate it manually if the mines didnt land pin point)

[rigid briar]

how do i make a vc?

[shell sonnet]

need to level up i think

-levels

[raven finch]

Our leveling system

"Why can't I do some things in the server?"

• You may need to level up first!

How to level up? Just look around and join conversations. Lots to talk about!

Lvl 0: Newbie 0xp
• join VC • make bug reports • chat in most channels
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• external stickers • VC streaming • bragging rights!

Role descriptions: #👋┇welcome
Check your rank: #🏆┇rank-check

[shell sonnet]

there we go
just chat a bit, youll be there in no time

[rigid briar]

sound good

ill just talk more lol

[versed finch]

M26 Matter is an underrated gun

I'm suprised I don't see more light players running it

I love the hipfire capability, it's like the SA1216 in terms of how hipfiring is just as accurate

[flint hill]

How to steal 50% of CS2s player base in a nutshell:

[dense oasis]

And they can do a tower shield and mace for the Shield, if they wanna steal from whatever game has those. For Honor??

And a 2-handed axe for the sledgehammer

[cunning slate]

Big revolver MGL skin.

[flint hill]

Now you’re cooking with gas.

[dense oasis]

Or just have the 40mm speedloader in one hand, and you throw them lol

[cunning slate]

Vynel record player Lewis Skin.

Idk if I spelled it wrong.

[dense oasis]

Vinyl. Close enough lol

[cunning slate]

Keep the normal realods, but keep the barrel on a Frame seprate from the cylinder.

[civic junco]

Question, is Thermal Bore any good for light? The loadout I'd be using it with is Dash, V9S, Vanish, and Glitch

[eager wasp]

eh

not really, you could make the argument that maybe for suspended structures yeah but even then its just not something i would switch to, sniper loadout perchance tho, to make custom lines of sight for the cashout

it is the cashball meta tho

[chilly scroll]

zzzzz

[boreal laurel]

I like it myself. Always nice to have a breaching tool when playing light. Breach charge is a good substitute but thermal bore is nice because it’s fire-and-forget instead of using a clacker.

[winged yacht]

best medium build?

[pseudo panther]

turret
ak
gaz bomb
defib

[eager wasp]

demat, fcar/pike, zip/goo, jumppad, defib

anyone that says turret is lying and you should never listen to any of their opinions ever again

[pseudo panther]

https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-shannon-no-no-nope-shake-head-gif-17813940

[winged yacht]

heal beam not meta anymore ?

fcar just doesn’t have the ability to kill heavies for me, the ak mag size is larger and i think it does more damage

[pseudo panther]

less dam but the ak withe like 10 bullet more is better in team fights imo

[eager wasp]

fcar is better overall, and yes healbeam is not as good, still way better than turret will ever be, but not as meta as demat is

fcar just has a bigger recoil pattern than akm with less ammo so it may feel a bit silly to use until you learn to control it

[restive plover]

Fcar has way better recoil than the akm, just up and to the right vs. reverse s.

[muted condor]

Demat, pike, jump pad, defib, goo

[eager wasp]

akms easier to control and learn, fcar has its bigger jump in the middle that ya know was nerfed a bit to be a little less but is still there, but a lot of people still miss a lot bc of it

[winged yacht]

fcar does have recoil and i learnt it, i was playing great with it and then took a break and it d oesnt feel the same anymore

[eager wasp]

yeah thats what it does to you, i played fcar when i first started medium, switched to akm for a bit, switched back and it felt so weird, the feeling and recoil control i once had all gone

[winged yacht]

even when i full beam someone it doesnt kill it feels like

[eager wasp]

when did you last play fcar

[winged yacht]

idk like couple days

[thorn anvil]

https://youtu.be/mneTT2NnLhM

[eager wasp]

so you stopped playing it for a couple days, came back and it felt off?

[winged yacht]

nah like half a season

=wasnt playing for half a season came back tried fcar and didnt like and switched to ak

[eager wasp]

half a season.. hmm.. no nerfs or anything that i can remember other than them reducing the recoil strength

weird, it just is how it is i guess, but i would suggest re-getting the hang of fcar again, genuinely is just the better pick stat wise, but to each their own, play whatever you enjoy ong

[winged yacht]

coulda sworn it go nerfed

ye i love the fcar just didnt feel samwe

[celest pelican]

Im obsessed with using Lewis gun

[winged yacht]

whats best scope?

[eager wasp]

really just personal preference but most (including me) use looking glass

[winged yacht]

oh really

i was using just the base one before they added scopes to every gun and still use it

[eager wasp]

i would always run the basic scopes everything came with but then i learned to get used to looking glass and now its easier for visual clarity when aiming down sights

[winged yacht]

okok makes sense

[past parcel]

Nerf riot shield.................

[celest pelican]

Guys what if medium gl shot 3 grenades instead of just 1. I feel it needs a buff. and Sword should have bigger range :)

[boreal laurel]

I use Looking Glass for single-shot weapons and Compact Reflector for full-auto ones

[mossy ibex]

Increase the sledgehammer’s damage to 110

[turbid heart]

Why don’t we replace M turret specialization with a vacuum? And maybe buff the turret as a gadget?

Or maybe a wraith state that allows you to not take damage from fire and gas but highlights your body clearly cross map

[rigid briar]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-comedy-champagne-television-show-gif-5002953490869676220

[odd ice]

I wish the grapple hook was better v-v

[obsidian terrace]

best medium build for solo players?

[sleek obsidian]

cl-40 jump pad d-fib, goo

[floral wigeon]

ak and pray you dont have 2 lights on your team

[minor sedge]

Sorry for the long post

Im looking for tips on what gadgets to use for light

I play with 2 friend who play heavy and medium we mostly play world semi casualy kinda sweat still I would say im above average with the play style I play that is like to just disturb and annoy my enemies from range with the arn . I currently use 1. pyro Grenade wich I use for stopping steals but both of my friends use gas mines/grenade so it feels kinda like I barley use it effectively and I just throw it randomly 2. Grenade wich I most of the time just throw where I think someone is and maybe 1/20 nades acc get a hitmarker (gonna try the gateway today) 3.i use the thermal bore wich I feel that I acctually have use for either for exposing walls where team are hiding or like getting a better position to fight to steal the cash point

Ps. I have tried the invis nade and glitch nade but felt like it was the same thing with the nade that I very rarely use it effectively

[plucky spade]

Switch pyro for glitch or sonar and you could try goo grenade, it always is useful

Also since you're playing in trios, you can communicate the vanish bomb to make your heavy go invis.
Invis SA1216 heavy is extremely funny

[stoic garden]

nobody expects heavies to appear in front of them

[shell sonnet]

event idea:
standing on, or touching something that can be dematerialized, will dematerialize it after a few seconds
(like hex-a-gone from fallguys, or tnt run from minecraft)
maybe cashouts will dematerialize stuff around them by default so they dont become inaccessible

thoughts?

[stoic garden]

that could be pretty funny, but might be better off with a dedicated map and of course lowered remat cooldown

[shell sonnet]

do you have an idea for a name? (if it were an event)

[stoic garden]

idk CNS BreachHack???

[shell sonnet]

i agree on the lower remat cooldown, but what reasons do you see for it being better off as a dedicated map?

i assume you mean as special arcade mode like heavy hitters
do you see any balancing issues for making it an event?

[stoic garden]

i think it could get annoying pretty quickly, possibly more than orbital lasers, especially for heavies, i think it's better if the tile demats only after being motionless for a few secs instead of being in its general area, this way it also doesn't completely fuck cloak players, akin to how you have to move an inch in orbital lasers to not have your position given away

so both events have similar utility that can be opted out by being on the move, even a little

whilst maybe retaining the quicker remat effect, but have it be the same for the demat spec

[shell sonnet]

cloak should be changed anyways imo, maybe theres a rework that would resolve this issue?

personally, idk if its different enough from orbital lasers that way

[stoic garden]

embark seems pretty adamant on making cloak a consistent spec, so i'd just opt to suggest making cloaked players not demat floors below them even when standing still idk

[shell sonnet]

i mean, the orbital laser is scanning for people
it shouzldnt be able to see cloaked players

but it also sees people inside buildings soooooo

[stoic garden]

you're kinda right, but how do we make the event less annoying and while still being unique otherwise?

[shell sonnet]

wait, maybe opposite
the floor only disappears once you move off
so you can stand still and it will not disappear

helps cloak+heavies
but leaves a trail of open floor where you went

would that be abuseable?
for easy highground+spam?

although, i guess it wouldnt be much different than a building just being destroyed and forming weird combat spaces anyways

[stoic garden]

that would be cool, but think of the melee players 😢

jk tho, lowkey goated idea

[shell sonnet]

yeah, ive suggested the odd idea or 2 that would kinda screw over melee, i wanna be careful with that, cant shoot myself in the foot

maybe a max time limit?
demats if you move off
and demats automatically after some time, depending on how much you move maybe?
just camping/standing still 10-20 seconds, but if you try to position yourself to shoot someone below you, you have to move and make the floor collaps faster?
unless you stand on the edge the whole time, for which youre exposing yourself

[stoic garden]

interesting way of doing it, definitely not the most intuitive event tho

[brazen mango]

If they wanted cloak to be consistent it would be the opposite to what it is now

[shell sonnet]

true

[brazen mango]

Game needs TF2 Cloak

[stoic garden]

we know mr duckling 😢

[shell sonnet]

true imo

[brazen mango]

Maybe embark need to stop cooking up their own variation of other game's abilities if all of them are objectively poorly designed

[shell sonnet]

invis watch or cloak and dagger tho?

[brazen mango]

Cloak, Mesh and winch are all worse poorly designed versions of abilities from other games

[shell sonnet]

nothing wrong with taking a page out of something great imo

[stoic garden]

is mesh really that badly designed?

i get cloak and winch tho

[brazen mango]

-225 HP when you close the shield and the game doesnt tell you it does that

That aspect is extremely poorly designed, original mesh was peak game design

[swift agate]

I mean is that really such a big deal when you see it happen the first time you do it?

the game doesn't need to explicitly tell you everything

[stoic garden]

it kinda does via the hud, but i think it's a nice way to limit mesh juggling without completely shutting your mesh down

[stoic garden]

this game barely tells u anything lil bro 😢

if weapon stat screen had more details you wouldn't see people say m11 is meta 🔥

[swift agate]

this is true, but of all the things the game should be telling you, "mesh shield loses 225hp when you bring it down" is near the bottom of the priority list

[brazen mango]

Your main ability should be straightforward to use, mesh is the opposite and it actively punishes you for using the ability well

[stoic garden]

🤤 gotta have that 500hp mesh with no penalty

[swift agate]

I'd say "press button to bring up shield, press button to bring down shield" is pretty straightforward, idk what you want

[stoic garden]

he wants mesh juggling to be usable more than once in fights

[swift agate]

oh, then sucks to suck. that would be broken

[brazen mango]

Shield also has 750 HP and you will lose 30% when you close it

[brazen mango]

Are we really this bad at the game that we think mesh juggling is broken

[swift agate]

very complex layers we're adding here. I think I could teach a hamster this information

[swift agate]

it isn't currently, because we have a mechanic to keep it in check

[brazen mango]

I love talking about issues in the game and getting egoed by random bums that are bad at the game

Lowk the reason I dont interact much anymore here

[stoic garden]

ngl make mesh turn off when juggled too much like your kitchen's lights when u were a kid

definitely the way to go ✊🏿

[shell sonnet]

ok, idea

what if mesh started at low hp, and build hp the longer you hold it out without it taking damage (up to a higher total than right now)
then, once you put it away, it degrades in hp like right now + slowly over time

you could use it to tank-tank more, its better at juggling, but at the cost of needing time before being useable as such
does pose extra risk/cost tho, since you can be rushed down and are weak without/need to waste time charging it outside of fights to prevent that

thoughts?

[brazen mango]

Would be worthless sadly

[drowsy cliff]

I loved old mesh juggling
generally the most fun I had on heavy

yo know it's nice when the game had a skill gap

[stoic garden]

what no lma

[swift agate]

"I want 750 hp shield that I can bring up and down at any time for free with no penalty and you're bad if you think that would be broken" is what I'm hearing here

[brazen mango]

Mesh just needs to either lose juggle penalty entirely, needs it dropped to 75-100 HP or needs a +150 HP buff

[brazen mango]

Yeah because at a higher level mesh has a 0% pickrate LOL

[stoic garden]

live winch reaction:

[brazen mango]

Besides a single team that plays it on 2 very specific maps in 3v3s only

Mesh in its current state is a joke

[shell sonnet]

no way to save the concept?

[stoic garden]

so you think mesh should get a buff because winch is currently ravaging all shields?

[brazen mango]

Nah, Mesh needs to be full HP when you pull it out at the start of a fight or its a dead spec

[brazen mango]

Yeah because unless they completely nuke winch mesh will never be good

[stoic garden]

thought so, if they never nerf winch then i 100% agree with your take, but i'd rather have winch nerfed than mesh buffed to compensate

[swift agate]

yeah, seems like a problem. I'm not saying mesh shield is good, I'm saying free juggling would be cancerous

[brazen mango]

And before anyone says I dont know how to use mesh and juggle and move with it

[swift agate]

I'm not against a mesh buff by any means

[wide onyx]

Mesh shield should just block winch. It would give mesh alot of relevancey again

[brazen mango]

ts one was cool aswell

[stoic garden]

shield losing a third of its durability every time u juggle 🔥 🔥 🔥 gj embark

[brazen mango]

Mesh is countered by so much shit and dies in a single mag it really wouldnt be that bad, mesh juggle was bad when mesh had 2+ AK mags full of HP

Basically all Popular weapons can put a mesh to 100-200 HP in a single mag

[shell sonnet]

thing is, once they reload you can go ham
unless its on medium range+ thats pretty strong

[stoic garden]

fall from grace 🔥

[brazen mango]

Make winch not go trough shields, lower mesh juggle penalty to 150 imo

[stoic garden]

yes that would be perfect

[indigo nexus]

Winch claw would be the only thing keeping it in check if it could be juggled forever again

[brazen mango]

From 1250 HP to 525 HP if you close it once

[brazen mango]

Glitch nades:

[indigo nexus]

True

[stoic garden]

i only want the penalty reduced a lil 🥺

[indigo nexus]

Still, personally I wouldn’t want a spec to require one of two specific loadout choices to fight against well

[brazen mango]

Mesh in its current state at the highest level of play is playable on 2 maps which are seoul and bernal and only in 3v3s

[brazen mango]

You can just shoot the mesh

[swift agate]

I really wouldn't mind giving mesh more health and/or reducing the juggle penalty, just not to a point where you can nullify its intended downsides by pressing q a bunch

[stoic garden]

it really isn't as unwinnable as getting winched you know? you can (sorta) walk away, shoot, go around them, and in general has more counterplay

now, if the person is running sa12, i wouldn't recommend getting anywhere close

[brazen mango]

Yeah Mesh is way more counterable than winch, even at its peak

[indigo nexus]

That is quite the point of the mesh, to take damage…

[stoic garden]

MESH IS COUNTERED BY MINIGUN!!!!!!!!

[brazen mango]

750 HP, a Pike mag is 600 damage

JUST SHOOT IT BRO

[indigo nexus]

That’s fair

[brazen mango]

JUST SHOOT IT ITS NOT THAT HARD

[indigo nexus]

I know that your point is that a mesh shield isn’t infeasible to destroy, but if you do take it down it still blocked a very large amount of damage and probably forced some reload

[brazen mango]

99.99% of players dont know how to use mesh anyway

[indigo nexus]

If they didn’t have it you could assume they would have died, so it did its job

[leaden chasm]

Wish heavy had a .50 sniper that one shot to the head kills any class. Slow reload, and takes say 10% own health per shot

[stoic garden]

sorry i got beamed by the mesh's light teammate behind him! what do i do!1

[stoic garden]

maybe 95%, be generous

[brazen mango]

No, its bad

[shell sonnet]

wheres the guy keeping track of how often thats been suggested?

[swift agate]

there is a reason one shots are mostly reserved to light-on-light interactions

[brazen mango]

The amount of people ive seen that play a comp viable mesh shield is barely reaching 2 digits

https://tenor.com/view/crawking-glizzy-sausage-meat-flopping-glizzy-gif-2534787456139464415

[shell sonnet]

if you want 1-shots, you can:
give up all ranged damage, on the low hp class, and only get to 1 shot someone if youre behind them (50% chance desync makes it not work)
or
1-shot anything, at any range, on the tank, for aiming

🤔

jokes aside, that wouldnt go well

[brazen mango]

Granted thats mostly cuz mesh hasnt been viable since S3

Going w S3 cuz OG winchtrap Meta

[brazen mango]

Sniper on heavy is a terrible idea and im scared embark are gonna do it at some point

Deagles are already way too close to a DMR to be on Heavy, altough ive grown to like them a bit more

[plucky spade]

The yellow role holding it up against game feedback ass takes

[plucky spade]

Mesh goes through walls so you could be getting punished without knowing what's going on

[brazen mango]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-laughing-sticker-risa-risa-risa-gif-7143041753879938592

[plucky spade]

Mesh should block winch

[brazen mango]

The sky is blue

[placid slate]

Would be ideal since mesh isn't really being used due to winch's prominence

[plucky spade]

Not in the game currently

[placid slate]

Adds some amount of diversity to the higher levels

[plucky spade]

Also cns should charge through winch

[brazen mango]

It doesnt, winch stops charge

[placid slate]

Nah, mf is just asking for the stun effect to be inconsistent and not apply to scenarios selected at random

[brazen mango]

Winch shouldnt stun to begin with, just block specs/gadgets from being used

If I perfectly headshot track a guy that winched me from 12m bro should die

[plucky spade]

Winch needs counters vro

[placid slate]

Yea, shields blocking it should be one

[plucky spade]

And cns should have a reason to exist in heavy's loadout

[placid slate]

Arbitrarily making the stun effect not stun a thing that's cancelled by stuns is wacky though

If charge just ignored all stuns I'd be fine with it, but specifically winch stun is an inconsistentcy

[plucky spade]

Goo stun is also blocked

[brazen mango]

True that

[plucky spade]

But nullifier doesn't stun anymore

[brazen mango]

Charge ignoring stuns would be interesting ngl, and null isnt a stun, it WOULD technically be consistent

[placid slate]

Also saying charge doesn't have a reason to exist is stupid too

[brazen mango]

I mean it really doesnt atm

[plucky spade]

What does charge do good now bro? Kill unsuspected peeps and extra speed for juking because forget charging anything head on

[placid slate]

Clean up kills, low cooldown destruction on heavy, one of the only ways to increase your speed on heavy, monkey boost, it's pretty solid playing solo and very useful for certain weapons

[plucky spade]

Too weak imo, i hear you but too weak
Plus winch counters too many things

And oh
Cashout manipulation is busted

[sudden pewter]

I love CnS, first spec I maxed for Heavy

[placid slate]

Mine was winch, probably solely because of spear

[plucky spade]

Rpging and smashing the stealing team is a thing of beauty indeed

[sudden pewter]

Bursting through a wall to interrupt a steal at the last second is the best way to die

[plucky spade]

Bro I swear if they fix that

[plucky spade]

Bumper carting another cns heavy was also funny

[placid slate]

Fix what

[sudden pewter]

Meta! He’s using meta! 🚨 wee woo wee woo 🚨
We’ve gotta meta mancer over here!!!
Ever meta woman before??? x3

[plucky spade]

If he played SA12 what would you say then

[plucky spade]

Winch flinging

[placid slate]

if this was meta the finals would actually be as underrated as the glazers say it is

[sudden pewter]

Embark will go bankrupt before they allow the spear catapult to be an actual feature

It’s tech and Embark hates tech.

[placid slate]

I mean one shotting a med or heavy within 40 meters of a cliff is kinda bs, tech or not

[sudden pewter]

You’re absolutely correct but you gotta admit it. It’s entertaining as hell.

[sudden pewter]

Surely not for the victim though admittedly:)

[thorn pivot]

What would be meta for lights around plat/diamond range?

[plucky spade]

Well true but bernal, kyoto, monaco

[royal pier]

Spear issues:

• Spin was fixed midway through S6, they broke it again at the start of the season.

• Attack buffering means if you accidentally double tap you're locked into that second attack. This isn't a thing on Sledgehammer, or really any of the other melee.

• Lunge is supposed to be a little over 7m, it basically doesn't exist atm.

• General hitreg problems that could be fixed by doing the kinds of changes they did for Riot Shield (bigger and longer lasting hitboxes).

• Attacking drastically slows you, negating the point of the range. Supposed to be mitigated by the lunge, but lunge is basically nonexistent.

[muted condor]

Make spin cancel a feature
Fix hit detection
Spear is now B-A tier

[sudden pewter]

Just make the spin cancel a vanilla part of the kit and it’s instantly up a tier

[placid slate]

add 5 damage to the m1 and its actually a good weapon

[sudden pewter]

Let it 2 tap lights :))

(And remove the melee aim assist?)

[plucky spade]

Bot

@olive viper

[fallow echo]

Listen to this Revolutionary idea groundbreaking people may say they should add a gun that shots bullets, genius I know

[stoic garden]

how about a gun that shoots more?

[compact tundra]

No

[sudden pewter]

Disagreement means death. Your days are numbered

[compact tundra]

Bro were hard locked at a 250hz pull, your 1khz mouses don't need more of an advantage

[compact tundra]

Plus the aim assist is important to like the only way sword can combo lights while hitting the light mid lunge

[sudden pewter]

Common console L

[placid slate]

That cam be turned off in settings

[placid slate]

Melee aim assist is ass, almost every melee mf (especially daggers) turn it off

[compact tundra]

Good on sword, especially with the new locked lunges

[placid slate]

Wouldn't the aim assist eat your lunge degrees, causing you to not have it when needed?

[compact tundra]

Not that I've noticed, but it does allow you to hit mid lunge QM combos if you lunge to the side of them that is on your left

[warm cove]

turret now does 1 dmg with a 5x increase in rpm

[whole ermine]

literally no, it is actually hacks on dagger

[placid slate]

i love wiffing a backstab because the game decided it was smarter than me and forces me to miss

[sudden pewter]

A white role is speaking 👏 👏
Shut up 🤫 and LEARN 📖

[whole ermine]

all im saying is that i can dash into someones face, turn around a little and melee aim assist will lock me onto their back >80% of the time 0 skill required

[dense oasis]

Throwing axes/hatchets for Heavy when? Slow, accurate overhand throw with heavy projectile weight but a x2 headshot mult 😩
(Went axe throwing a bunch, it’s soooo fun!)

[whole ermine]

Yes!

[modest lynx]

Im on Roller and i had no problem with hitting QM combos with old sword no AA, its basically required now for the damn thing 😢

[compact tundra]

Yea, I hate it man. Who the fuck thought locking your screen in a fps was a workable solution

[sudden pewter]

🙂

[modest lynx]

I would understand this if the cone was a workable 100⁰ but starting with this sets a bad Precedent.

[dense oasis]

Also, chakram skin for throwing knives??

[modest lynx]

Could be heat?

[dense oasis]

I think more cool skins for the unconventional weapons in the game would be nice; I’m glad those kinds of weapons are seeing more use when your usual firearms have dominated the meta for awhile (at least from what I saw)

I would like to see a bit better combat flow with the dual blades, maybe a quick stab with one sword maybe within half a second of blocking an enemy’s melee hit

[tiny willow]

cerb being able to ignite goo from like 50m away in 1 shot was such a hype change

[tiny willow]

we have cds why not lol

[modest lynx]

I honestly just want them to remove multihit or find a way to limit it down to 2 Targets max somehow and drop the clamp bs

[dense oasis]

Maybe javelins for Medium. High speed but they lose momentum (and damage) after a certain distance

[compact tundra]

That is every swords wish. Too bad they don't actually listen to the players who play these niche weapons.

[winter jay]

wait this actually works. i can qm like at the start of a lunge w this

[compact tundra]

Yea, just limits what side you can lunge to. But it's reliable with good aim

[obsidian nexus]

revery melee changes

everyone running riot now and its unbearable

[muted condor]

The humble hammer:

[compact tundra]

Riots just kinda a skill check, there are some good videos on YouTube that teach how to counter it

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-get-coined-nama-tama-gif-26831859

[obsidian nexus]

Tell that to my teammates

[muted condor]

Your team mates will always be ass against any weapon

[hoary patio]

They should make a heat seeking missile for the heavy class gadget or special that would nuke those pesky lights. It would make the game a lot more enjoyable

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1281411010846265374/1368840910577860628/IMG_4648.gif

[cyan steeple]

6 seasons have passed but still the same shit, the same game with new cosmetics and w balances…:….ggs embarks, keep going

[stable whale]

Throwable sledgehammer

[muted condor]

Is this sarcasm?

[plucky spade]

when in doubt bait your team, then realise you're still in gold for a reason as you fail to even kill one of the rioters that has turned their backs to you

[obsidian nexus]

u dont know me bud

[plucky spade]

woa

vro is unknown and used bud

[abstract vessel]

Just shoot the left side omg

Im like beyond bad and still can counter it

[stable whale]

Least polite midwestern american

[shell sonnet]

spear 😭

[obsidian nexus]

correctly countering it still doesnt make the gameplay fun

[muted condor]

Remove all ARs from the game
They are boring to fight

[harsh nebula]

Is the M60 or Lewis better?

[tepid perch]

Lewis cause it had better skins lol

[tepid perch]

But personally even tho m60 recoil is easier I find Lewis is easier to use

[cunning slate]

They should add an AR shared by all classes that has an underbarrel grenade launcher, it uses grenades in your gadget slots as ammo, and gives grenades better range.

[harsh nebula]

i've been using both and i cant tell much of a difference between the two besides recoil and magazine size

[sudden pewter]

M60 objectively has better skins than Lewis

(Eclipse Shade)

[harsh nebula]

vaiiya my beloved

[sudden pewter]

Lewis has much longer range than the M60, packs a harder punch as well

[harsh nebula]

interesting

[sudden pewter]

Horizontal recoil kills it got me

[stoic garden]

Damage per bullet yes, dps no, it's very slightly lower

[tepid perch]

WHAT

Lewis skins r so much better

Yall got tips for pacing shots with the pike? I love the gun but I find myself spamming and missing sometimes

[stoic garden]

it has a recoil pattern, try and learn it somewhat, if you still cant hit consistently it's ok to slow down the firing as long as you win

[sleek obsidian]

why do i feel like switching to ARN after using XP is weird like arn doesnt feel right

[sudden pewter]

Shoots slower?

[cunning slate]

Should heal beam give overheal?

Or something similar.

[shell sonnet]

screws around with ttk/hits to kills
cl-40 went through its whole journey because it couldnt 1 mag a heavy without 100% accuracy
id rather not do all of that again

[cunning slate]

But I thought heavy has too easy to kill?

[shell sonnet]

ok tbf, normal healing does too
but at least thats a 2v1, and not a 1v1 where on was near a teammate 20s ago

[cunning slate]

Eother way, medium needs better specials.

[shell sonnet]

huh?

[cunning slate]

IDK, im still NEW

[shell sonnet]

i think demat is fine, maybe a little annoying at times (tho some call it borderline broken)
healbeam is a little conceptually flawed, but fine atm, maybe would be better off with a few stat changes in both directions
turret is in need of a rework, weak to use, yet still gets plenty of complaints by some

[shell sonnet]

sounded like you were referring to something i supposedly said which confused me a bit
not to sound like mean, but if youre new and dont know, why say that?

[modest osprey]

does nayone have any tips for dual blades

i kinda suck with them and consistently do worse than my friends

[cunning slate]

Demat is just plain not fun, and turret sucks. I want to feel like Im doing more for my team.

[shell sonnet]

i dont use dual blades too much, but maybe i can scrape some stuff together

as melee weapon, its benefits greatly from an ambush playstyle (demat helps)
you might get some use out oh hitting the target dummies a bit to see where the breakpoints are and a single quick-melee can get you a kill early
probably check if reflections can deal headshots, i dont think they do, never specifically noticed, especially with its rng spread, so youre probably better off aiming for center mass, since that covers more of the spread with your enemy
you can reflect at a decent angle, but not all of it is a full reflect, so you will tak more damage on the outside (been a while since ive read this, not 100% sure about it)
some people find success in doing the inspect animation, as the still crossed swords can trick an enemy into thinking youre still guarding while youre actually running at them (never tested, wouldnt expect it to work a lot, but worth a shot)

place a turret on an object and carry it around as make-shift gun lol

[shell sonnet]

i mean, demat depends on the player, i find it fun

but turret could absolutely use some work, any ideas?

[modest osprey]

huh, thats alot of cool stuff

[shell sonnet]

use goo nade to block players off and close the gap, or as cover before you get close

take everything with a big grain of salt and probably ask someone more experienced

[modest osprey]

alight

[shell sonnet]

also, dont burn yourself out
learning weapons, especially melee, can be pretty hard, it would be sad to never discover your favorite weapon because your first experience was bad
take breaks, switch it up, come back later if it didnt work

it took me a good few days to get even passable *at mgl32

[shell sonnet]

gl hf :)

[modest osprey]

yay

[real brook]

I just started playing sword again and its crazy that the camera clamp is 40 degrees now

id rather have reduced damage bruh

[cunning slate]

Remote control with the tablet out, the ability to crit if someone gets too close, minor firerate buff, more hp, and a faster cooldown.

Not all of these should be added, but ditching one should be fair.

[chilly stone]

sonar grenade for all classes

More sights for bow and sniper

[shell sonnet]

those are just straight up combat buffs tho, the lights will tear that to shreds in feedback

[shell sonnet]

id love iron sight sniper unironically

[chilly stone]

ik it would be peak

[cunning slate]

I said not all of them. Maybe hp can go, and the faster cooldown. But crits when too close is fair.

[cunning slate]

It had irons?

[shell sonnet]

more fire rate+ crits are still more damage
there will be complaints

[shell sonnet]

i dont think so?
if it had, then that was before i joined in the 2nd to last beta (unless i literally just didnt notice)

[chilly stone]

last time I checked sniper didnt even have an option for changing sights

[swift cradle]

It seems like every suggestion ive heard to help fight against griefing are just bad ideas and it's kinda concerning lol

[cunning slate]

At close range

Like, your basically kissing the turret. If your about 8m, give or take, it has a 35% crit chance. Add an extra 5% per meter closer you get.

[shell sonnet]

idk why they wouldnt have kept it if it ever did

and they did say that if a sight changes a weapon so much it becomes problematic, then its not the sight making it a problem, just what the gun was always capable of

[shell sonnet]

crit chance would probably be even worse
rng is uuuh, yk?

[cunning slate]

If it can crit, people will fear Terry. Crits could be tinkered with in the value department, their exsistance ALONE could help Terry handle people who get too close to kill off the turret.

[shell sonnet]

now what i could see is terry only being able to see enemies in a 2d plane (or like a very slim but wide 5°cone), and then critting if you got it set up in a way where it hits the head by itself
rewards proper setup, can guarantee headshots if placed up high facing downwards, with the downside of only shooting in a slim area

problem is, with how high it is, it would crit lights by default, which would be problematic

idk

would you like to give your input on ideas ive accumulated?

[cunning slate]

Yes.

[cunning slate]

Overall, I think crits should be around the 50 to 55 damage range.

If we go with my original idea, the turret would have a better range, around 20+/- meters. If someone gets within 8 or so meters, it gains the ability to crit, around 35% chance per shot, with the rng being the issue.

[shell sonnet]

been a while, had to look for it

the ideas were based on tf2's mini sentry, lethal compan turret and the gtfo turret

[cunning slate]

Yeah. I think the turret being expendable is a good angle, but lock on seems far too easy to kill.

[shell sonnet]

i think when i wrote it that was part of the point

make it stronger, but also more easily countered

like, it would be an actual skill issue to die to it due to the grace period, and be a general threat to have existing

[cunning slate]

I'd just tamper with the values overall. Bump up its raw ttk, or make it tougher. Recharge should be minimized either way.

[shell sonnet]

recharge is a thing that could be tweaked tho
people are not really complaining about how often they see turret when an enemy runs it, just that when lights try to engage it, or get cought out for even a second, theyre half dead

just like, dont make it instant or something

[cunning slate]

I think dealing with mediums and heavies is an issue.

[shell sonnet]

in what way?

[cunning slate]

Lights dying to it is a normal issue when it comes to Terry.

I just think the real problem is killing classes with higher health than 150.

If it was talored to be an assist tool, or an outright area control tool, Id be fine with it.

[shell sonnet]

i mean, lock on might worked with that
lighst can get away from it quickly, where as if a medium or heavy is cought, they take longer to get away, or need to risk outdamaging it (potentially with others around)

[cunning slate]

Stun?

Not like, unable to move, but some form of slight slow down. Able to catch mediums and heavies due to their mobility, but lets lights slip by.

[shell sonnet]

i didnt say stun
i really dont like stuns
would probably be a bad idea

[shell sonnet]

there was also an idea floating around of turrets with deal laughably low damage, but get 360° vision with decently fast turn speed and deliberately focus the enemy closest to death

so it would finish people off

tho that might be problematic because it deliberately abuses damage breakpoints that exist for a reason (such as revolver 148 headshots)

[boreal laurel]

I think what turret needs to become truly strong isn’t damage, but flexibility. Right now it’s limited by the same issues as minigun, namely that it forces you into static play. If it could activate quicker on deploy and had a quicker CD, it might be better. Still wouldn’t make me use it though, I’ve been a demat main since S2 and intend never to change

[cunning slate]

No stun, flinch

Enough to let lights slip out, but make everyone else gu it down.

[shell sonnet]

screw with peoples pov?
we havent done anything like that before besides maybe sword if you count that (or old stun gun)
both got and are gettig complaints

[cunning slate]

NO

NO MESSING W/ PEOPLE'S VISON.

[shell sonnet]

wait, what do you mean then?

[shell sonnet]

i could see that working

[cunning slate]

I mean, every shot kills momentum by about 50%, and gets weaker over time.

[shell sonnet]

lights are even more dependent on their speed than the other classes tho
taking 50% of a high number is more impactful than taking 50% of heavies speed
they would still suffer more than the other 2
while also being, yk, a slow, not very liked

[gleaming aspen]

i use sniper grappling hook glitchnade gateway and ninja bombs dis gud?

[shell sonnet]

casual, anything works
ranked, probably, to a certain extend, might need certain playstyles tho

[cunning slate]

50% alot, but my point still stands: the turret makes you slightly slowed down from constant fire.

[shell sonnet]

yeah, but that would impact lights a lot more, the group were specifically trying to not make it worse for, because they will complain that idea to death

[cunning slate]

Then make sure they can dash away or something.

Terry is weak, and lights are "weak". Give them something to make the slowdowm easier to counter by lights.

[shell sonnet]

ok, different turret rework idea
terry stands around and does nothing, until you trigger it remotely with your tablet, at which point he will spin around like crazy and spew bullets everywhere

its far away from what we have now, and probably not ideal, but i wanna see if that idea gets us anywhere

so ideally, you place it somewhere hidden, bait an enemy in, and then have a little risk with not shooting them by activating terry instead
which then either brute forces enemies to either dispatch him quickly, giving you an opportunity to strike, force an escape, or deal heavy damage to them
and since its not passive like current terry, lights wouldn't suffer, unless the enemy wants to use it to kill a single light, which would be kind of wasteful probably

maybe coupled with shorter recharge as disposable trap

[hoary patio]

Or you strap a minigun to a turret

[shell sonnet]

basically

[sullen shard]

Would love to see blades/sword get a pool noodle skin

[sleek obsidian]

throwing knives chopstick skin

[modest osprey]

buff to dual baldes

[sleek obsidian]

no

[modest osprey]

aw

[muted condor]

🤝

[modest osprey]

[lunar kernel]

Whats a good heavy kit for comp

[sleek obsidian]

winch shak dome shield rpg c4 or anti grav

[lunar kernel]

Weapon

[sleek obsidian]

shak

[lunar kernel]

Mb mb thanks I'll run it a game

[muted condor]

Spear :)

[alpine niche]

best gadgets to go with ARN+grapple?

[shut bane]

For maps with dense foliage like the peace center or kyoto run thermal, everything else is purely subjective lol, vanishing bomb, glitch grenade, sonar, and thermal bore/breaching charges are useful at times

[raw cave]

first one's can be good, but other ones are debuffs. Why would you debuff worst spec in the game?

[swift cradle]

Depends on the map. Arn is best at mid/long range.

But close range maps, consider smoke+thermal, breach or goo/gateway to play closer/escape from bad situations.

For Long range, take your pick. Glitch and gateway is pretty universal. Third pick is up to preference.

[shell sonnet]

Becausd of lights
Straight up buffs would be complained to death
So this is an attempt at making up for it in some way that allows us to buff it in another

[safe swift]

Whats the best weapons for medium

[eager wasp]

fcar/pike

[safe swift]

What about gadgets

[eager wasp]

defib, jumppad, other slot is flex slot, could do goo grenade, zipline etc

[safe swift]

Ok thank you

[plucky spade]

Terry rework: 10% damage buff
Focuses enemy you are shooting if in range ( infinite )/j

[raw cave]

but you suggested only debuffs...

[plucky spade]

He is right though, lights won't ever stop complaining if terry becomes a smidge better

[placid slate]

does the game support decimals?

[raw cave]

at least give it a 360 view angle. It's very fun when you are dying and your spec sits here like nothing is happening

[shell sonnet]

1. Has 2 turrets

2. Has increased damage after lock on

3. Has outright higher damage in return for being more restrictive

They all have upsides

[shell sonnet]

Having a limited viewing radius is important to give melee an angle to approach it at to deal with it

If it had 360° theres a decent chance melee lights would have way more trouble dealing with it on their own, even more so during actual combat

If its as punishment for getting into a more restrictive angle first, i could see that working
But otherwise it might cause problems
But im kot sure about it either way

[royal pier]

Give Heavy Vortex.

[raw cave]

it doesnt dead lock on, he can use his spec to lose its lock, it doesnt have instant turning

[raw cave]

or lock on dead? which one is the right one?

[raw cave]

if turret can't turn, its just becomes a trip wire, or did i not understand what you were saying?

[merry robin]

Reduced the attack range of the blast shield Reduced blast shield movement speed

[shell sonnet]

Exactly, that would be it

[shell sonnet]

Gravity cube + vortex on cashout go brr

[raw cave]

then what is even the point? just use explosive mine

[raw cave]

And how much damage that would deal? 50? 70?

[shell sonnet]

A lot more range
Not being disposeable
Actually being a noticeable threat that supresses enemies, rather than suprise damage

[raw cave]

would it be automatic or single shot

[shell sonnet]

Idk the exact damage numbers rn, so i cant give you the numbers on what it looks like after
Just more than currently

Still automatic

[shell sonnet]

Wait, just making sure, you did understant it as being 3 seperate rework ideas, right?

[raw cave]

then i don't like it, if it will bring me sudden advantage as other specs do, i would concider it a good idea

[shell sonnet]

But turret doesnt do that rn anyways?

[raw cave]

no its not, it has to wake up for like 2 seconds

[shell sonnet]

Just like current turret

[raw cave]

im talking about current turret

[shell sonnet]

So basically you dislike the concept of a turret, and dont like ideas that keep it close to its identity

[shell sonnet]

Now that i think about it, being able to place it on throwables might end up problematic

Chucking it into a heavily fortified room and just deleting everything inside

Would probably either need to be really low hp so you can shoot it in time
The same deactivate mechanic when carried mechanic like c4
Or to just be disabled outright

I wonder if that would make it ranked viable if coorditated with a demat medium to drop it into an enemy team

[opaque mica]

Just needs to be a little quicker on wakeup. drop it to about 1.2-1.5 second wakeup should make it better to use. Maybe even give it a 'ammo count'

[shell sonnet]

Cheap/disposeable turret with lower stats but faster recharge/charge up is on my list of workable ideas

[shell sonnet]

Do you happen to have any more outlandish ideas about it?
I wanna try feeding my creativity a bit

[chilly stone]

sonar grenade for all classes

[opaque mica]

Hmmm to go a little more nuts one could have it deal increasing damage the longer it fires at a target

force people to deal with it or remove it

[shell sonnet]

That forces people to not ignore it
And (maybe?) reduced how frustrated lights get

I could see that, not bad

[opaque mica]

oh no I want lights to suffer.

but definately needs a range boost to about 50 but with harsh falloff after 15m

[shell sonnet]

We can probably also find something that makes lights suffer just as much while making it a little more viable against Medium + Heavy

[opaque mica]

that's the ramp up on target.

[shell sonnet]

That would be so fucking stupid (in a funny way)

Put it on a barrel, and just chip the light sniper the whole time

[opaque mica]

Encourages to either dip for a moment, block it or aggro swap

ehhh snipers are running around like it's a shotgun 90% of the time anyways

hitscan within 20 tends to cause that

[shell sonnet]

Meh, not on powershift, ill take anything i can get there

[opaque mica]

to be honest though not the mode guns are balanced for

its a cool mode and much better with either set or restricted loadouts.

same as term attack, fun but too punishing with the one use per round instead of 300-400% cooldowns.

long ass cooldowns still encourage cautious use (in theory here) but should you live long enough, options reopen.

[shell sonnet]

I mean, there are probably ways to juggle items better between all modes

[opaque mica]

maybe but it's really hard given how each mode tends to favour certain things over overs and changing weapons per mode causes other problems

like for example the 'humble' sniper
Cashout/quick cash - reasonably ok balance wise
TDM - you're a masochist
Terminal attack- ehhhhh kinda good but not really
Powershift - please remove ugggghhhhhhhhh

making adjustments in one of them can quite harshly affect the others

I do think though that any new items or weapons we get need to focus harder on the pro's/con's aspect as it's getting a little cluttered

[shell sonnet]

Ofc

But maybe there is a way

Im bot really convinced on mode specific reworks, imo they should bebthe same everywhere
Removal of it for ps specifically is justified imo

[opaque mica]

yep. 💯

[shell sonnet]

But then we get a slipper slop
Gl are annoying, do they get banned?
Is mgl included in that or is it bad/rare enough
Is aps needed anymore? The grenades are needed to flush the paltform

Spear m2 jumping on is pretty strong

eeeeh

[opaque mica]

light should've never had a sniper rifle tbh.

but true of the slope

it is rather slippery.

i propose maybe a high roof to the platform or taller walls that curve in slightly.

{___} more this shape?

[shell sonnet]

Impacts everything else

Rifles and everything more so than snipers, because snipers have grapple and can actually just go higher up to avoid it

It harms everyone else but doesnt help with the issues im afraid

[opaque mica]

making it a little more difficult on sniping and bombarding

[cunning slate]

snub nosed breaching shotgun for medium

or a healing dart gun

[plain mauve]

nerf the dbshotgun?

or buff everything else?

[opaque mica]

delete light.

[magic idol]

whats a good load out for heavy and goo gun???

[plain mauve]

guitar

[mellow bear]

sledge dome barricade lockbolt

[plain mauve]

barricade with goo gun???

[mellow bear]

trust trust

seems counterproductive but i hate the reload of the goo gun

[magic idol]

why would i use barricade w goo gun???

[mellow bear]

^^

[magic idol]

ima replace it w pyro mines

[mellow bear]

id swap it for nade or rpg but pyro is good too

[magic idol]

i wanna start using mines sense i see people using them alot and u get 2 pyros so y not

[mellow bear]

pyro mine + charge n slam is a good combo

[magic idol]

ill stick with what i got rn and ill test out other things later

[mellow bear]

lmk how it works 📝

[magic idol]

ill probably lock bolt then goo them so i can get closer

[stoic garden]

you only need one ngl

[abstract tartan]

you can do some wacky strats by putting goo on the barricade. you can pick up the barricade to break all the goo attached to it and enemies might not expect a ton of goo to randomly disappear with no fire

[swift cradle]

I figured out a possible solution to the last round double cashbox problem.

-Give the player who owns the cashbox the ability to remove a doubled cashbox at anytime.

-If the vault is removed and put in again in the same box or another cashbox, there is no bonus cash for any team.

This way it doesn't effect the balance too much and still gives the player being griefed more control over their cashbox

This could also help with unexpected doubles like in the beginning of the round.

[misty elbow]

melee: sledge, dome, c4, pyro

alt. use anti grav, lockbolt, rpg

you can switch sledge for whatever if you want too, lewis and deags play well w goo

[boreal laurel]

I use RPG, pyro mines, and motion sensor with flamethrower, KS-23, or Deagles (depending on the day). I know it’s a bit weird, but it usually works pretty well for me

[grand gorge]

Pls delete cloak

[compact tundra]

No

[compact tundra]

I like flamethrower, dome shield, rpg, and barricades. But I've been subbing goo gun for mesh shield lately

[foggy ruin]

Cloak is literally the worst light spec bro, the only reason they would remove it is because how useless it is.

[boreal laurel]

Ironically, I have multiple friends who run cloak exclusively and wouldn’t survive without it

[compact tundra]

Cloaks good if you're bad at positioning or movement, which on light Is probably one of the harder things to get down. It allows you to position freely as long as you're careful and can be good for getaways without having to have clutch movement

[rocky musk]

guys xp vs arn which light weapon is better?

[stoic garden]

arn no questions asked lol

if you're curious as to why, you should consult this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/htmlview

[rocky musk]

idk why but xp feels better to use

[stoic garden]

tl;dr: much better long ranged performance, practically same ttk, almost double dmg per mag, similar if you dont consider the second mag

what xp has over the arn is: better hipfire due to higher rpm, more bullets in a singular mag, breaks ziplines and most other arena breakables in half the bullets

[rocky musk]

xp is easier to control for me, I miss way too much with the arn which is partially my skill issue ik

[stoic garden]

opposite for me ngl, arn's recoil is really good for me

[rocky musk]

what sight do you use

[stoic garden]

looking glass

[indigo nexus]

higher RPM doesn't make hipfire any better, in this case it only creates a negligible difference in consistency

the XP simply has a smaller hipfire spread circle than the ARN

[stoic garden]

got it

[chilly stone]

detection gadgets should work in allied smoke

[indigo nexus]

saying the ttk is practically the same is a bit misleading though.

this is a significantly bigger difference than that between most pairs of similar guns

[stoic garden]

yet again another fair point, i usually see differences by about a tenth of a second as insignificant, but i guess they can matter in fps games such as this

especially considering average human reaction time is around two tenths of a second gg

any other thing i might've missed?

[indigo nexus]

That's a lot bigger than the difference between, say, the shak and the m60

[stoic garden]

or fcar and akm

[indigo nexus]

well they're very close

it's the biggest difference between full autos on the same class I can actually think of, save for ARN vs M11

[stoic garden]

i guess you're saying that because shak has much lower technical range than m60 despite their similar dps?

[indigo nexus]

but even so, if you put the FCAR next to it you'd see the two had very similar ttk, as light weapons are generally more powerful than medium's

[indigo nexus]

Not that I can think of

[stoic garden]

nice, I'll be more informative next time someone asks, or point them to the chart...

[indigo nexus]

looks like I misremembered, it's actually a similar difference...

[stoic garden]

let me see

ok yea it's kind of a similar deal

[indigo nexus]

my graphs seem to have a bit of a problem when hits start missing (end of the red line there it gets wobbly due to the shak's inaccuracy), I do not know why that is... but I may not bother to fix it

but until that it should be fine

though I just noticed the pattern on each line is the same... how weird

maybe I can find out what causes that quickly

[stoic garden]

interesting

[indigo nexus]

the middle line is much more complex and works with a completely different process to the other two

[indigo nexus]

well, I am baffled about how the relatively simple calculations for it are creating such weird results
while the process for the top and bottom lines does become stochastic when the accuracy is below 1, but the differences when ran each time are tiny, and the interesting thing is that a 0.97 damage falloff multiplier gets a worse ttk than a 0.96 one...

[ocean hull]

Knives are so satisfying to play 🫠
https://youtu.be/uCk0ULZXpwE?feature=shared

[compact tundra]

For me it's the model. I don't play it often but I think that's what makes it feel so good for me. Just the feeling of hitting full meat shots at like 8m is soooo goooood. Watching like 2/3's of that rats health plummet in one shot is so cool

[ocean hull]

Yea, hitting charged knife shot wit tons of damage is so good 🤙

[compact tundra]

See for me the knives never clicked, same thing with dematty. They just don't click with how I play

@brazen mango
I've been practicing my mesh heavy after watching your clips. It was probably my least used heavy spec outside of power shift before I saw your clips. I don't have great clips on my progress but I think these are decent

[vocal saddle]

Day 4 of pitching my ideas to make the Dual Blades better
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gQf6ocgnqo3YdNr1LFKwb_bNSxzLp7RE-B0DL2Q98C4/edit?usp=sharing

[ocean hull]

fair enough

[indigo nexus]

Ah. The dispersion-based hit rate estimator is flawed.

[cunning slate]

You know that gun from bo3 that prints its ammo over time?

Give it to heavy.

[compact tundra]

That could be a cool concept

[indigo nexus]

there we go

pretty much just upped the resolution of the spread circles and targets that it uses and increased the radius of said circles by 0.5px, as it turns out it was low enough that there was a lot of random error in determining the overlap

[compact tundra]

I feel like shak mostly competes with D-eagles due to its limited mag and dependence on headshots. And that the m60, lewis, and minigun compete with each other

Could be wrong that's just kinda how I feel

[indigo nexus]

not really much of a right or wrong there I think

hah, akimbo inaccuracy makes the graph awkwardly tall

realistically at those ranges you would not be moving while shooting and are probably crouching, so it would do better

[compact tundra]

That's fair, but never realized they were so inaccurate at range. I've always thought of the D-eagles as a longer range heavy weapon

I'm guessing the range is measured in meters

[indigo nexus]

this assumes you're walking while shooting, you will miss a lot when you do that at range

[compact tundra]

Oh fair enough

[indigo nexus]

yes

Akimbo players will often crouch in place to get much better accuracy

[compact tundra]

Ok that's fair then. At that mid range they perform about on par with the shak

[indigo nexus]

I did not take the time to measure the crouching accuracy of the guns, so, uhhh... I guessed, but here's something closer to how it can perform if you sacrifice all movement:

might actually be more accurate than that still, not sure

[vocal saddle]

Any tiny thing from this sheet can just make the blades so much better

[compact tundra]

Very scientific. This is why I love doing table top design, everything's simple straight numbers, no variables

[indigo nexus]

This reads like a notable nerf to me

I don't think the minor benefits could outweigh the deflect being significantly weaker and the attack animation being messed up like that

it would be less effective offensively unless you buffed the X hit's damage

[indigo nexus]

wellll, this does have plenty of its own variables...

it's just mainly trading a slight bit of accuracy to run way faster than it might, or defining the scenario

[compact tundra]

Table top only has detailed variables if you make your game overly complex. Like adding % damage resistances which is just a bad idea when the players have to do the math themselves.

But damn bro you are putting the work in for these charts, glad I don't gotta code or anything, that looks like fucking moona runes to me

[indigo nexus]

with the amount of non-strictly-neccessary stuff I wanted it to be able to do, it became quite complicated technically

this absolute mess is how it finds the bold lines

you'd think it could be a lot simpler but I don't think there's much I can cut out (other than moving certain additional parts into their own functions) without losing important functionality

[compact tundra]

I got no idea how coding works, that's all you king

[covert rock]

whats the best build for a new player? i like medium and light, heavy is a bit slow

[compact tundra]

I write some numbers on a paper, and tell my friends to do the math while they play. My job is to make the systems fun and engaging while being as easy to understand and implement as possible

[indigo nexus]

it would be much smaller if I just did the whole thing stochastically, but in another community when I did that I had a surprising amount of people at my throat shouting about how all my numbers are useless because they were "random", so I wanted this one to be as deterministic as was computationally feasible

[compact tundra]

All depends on how you play and how good your aim is

[cunning slate]

What they say

[covert rock]

its mediocre

my friends recommend light with sword

[cunning slate]

Matter or XP for light, cerberus or AKM for medium

[indigo nexus]

The meta doesn't really exist until you get pretty good, so it's mostly just about choosing combinations of choices that:

1. work well together
2. fit well with your personal skillset
3. you enjoy

[indigo nexus]

In response to me or someone else?

[cunning slate]

Someone else

[covert rock]

is the sword any good?

[cunning slate]

Not my field.

[indigo nexus]

I get the impression it's currently considered good by a lot of lower elo players

[covert rock]

fair

[cunning slate]

I feel like an intervention would be cool to play with

[indigo nexus]

But it seems that by gold rank most of the sword players have already been filtered out, now

[vocal saddle]

The engagement part is what's causing the blades to struggle, I think 90% deflection was a bit much tbh, it definitely needed a buff from its season 3 counterpart, but now every time I see dual blades user go up against anyone with a gun, they fight like a riot shield thinking they're invincible. Not to mention that with every melee (other than spear) is not combo based which I feel suffers a bit from that too. If they just moved the X slash to the front of the combo, the engagement part wouldn't be so hard bc of that last animation only being 1 swing and not 2.

[indigo nexus]

The third swing is the worst of the bunch in terms of rate of damage output. It sounds like that would only be a bad thing for the weapon

it'd slow the ttk on heavy and light a little, and worsen it further for any engagement in which you got some hits in and then fell out of range again

[compact tundra]

So as a sword main with 300 hours on the game, the sword isn't really beginner friendly. You get caught out really easily without knowing sword movement

[compact tundra]

It's great on support focused light. Not great for 1v1 fights tho

[vocal saddle]

Well it's technically supposed to be the strongest since it goes 50, 60, then 65, but since there's 2 swing in the first two animations. I guess maybe buffing that 3rd swing to 70 at bare minimum, but having that first initial instant 65 off the bat sounds much better than possibly missing 50-60 points of damage bc your sword just didn't go through on that other part of the swings. Imo I couldn't justify 100% deflection lol, at that point play riot shield, but if they maybe went 80% deflection and made the deflection at enemies more accurate then maybe that could work too

[compact tundra]

I honestly don't like the weird way dual swords attacks and I think that's why it's kind getting beat DPS wise by the riot shield. Technically the dual swords should probably have a higher dps but the 3 swing system makes hitting with it complicated and hard. I think dropping the 3 swings all together would be much simpler

[indigo nexus]

It’s no more instant than the other attacks - well, less instant, and for less damage. Even if you made it deal 100 I don’t think it would be beneficial in most cases.

Not sure what you mean by “your sword just didn’t go through”.

[vocal saddle]

Hit registration is what I mean, probably should specify lol
But there will be times where I'll hit the enemy, it makes the noise, he drops coins, but no damage is accounted for

[indigo nexus]

This isn’t affected by which attack in the combo is being utilised

[golden shuttle]

i like how the ks23 uses tan slug shells but ejects 12 gauge

[vocal saddle]

Ik it doesn't-
I was responding to what you meant by "my sword not going through"

[young pewter]

It's a magical color changing gun
Wdym

[golden shuttle]

you right my bad gang

(the 12 gauge is actually inside the shell)

[covert rock]

so far i like the cerberus shotgun better than the matter but i like the dash better on the light so idk

[compact tundra]

Cerberus is more comparable to double barrel than the matter

[raw cave]

it was basically the same thing in 5 season, it could one shot light

[compact tundra]

Huh, the season 5 Cerberus was a tickle monster that's why it got a decent buff in 5.8. also it did 108 on full meat shot. And full afterburn (38dmg) leaves the light at 4hp

[raw cave]

i dont remember the history of every weapon

[covert rock]

how do you play the matter

[raw cave]

infact i dont remember history of pretty much every weapon

[compact tundra]

Brother you brought it up. You might be thinking of 5.8 Cerberus or season 6 Cerberus. But on release it was aight at best

[raw cave]

i remember that it was dog shit on release, but im pretty sure they buffed it during season so i thought why not say season 5 as a whole

[compact tundra]

Yea that was 5.8. so closer to 6 than 5 but I get what your saying

[compact tundra]

You have great sustainability and damage. Don't get too close since it has an ok mid range and just keep shooting. You can out range or out sustain every other close range weapon other than the model or flamethrower

[covert rock]

what about heavy?

[sleek obsidian]

anything but the mgl and flamethrower

[covert rock]

is the spear any good?

[sleek obsidian]

hit reg is iffy but id rather use sledge

only thing thats keeping the spear alive is the alt attack

[cunning slate]

Minigun or shak

[covert rock]

what gadgets / specials should i use for light / medium

mainly light but in case i play medium

[compact tundra]

Na bro, flame thrower goated

[sleek obsidian]

ass

[sleek obsidian]

use whataver you like

[alpine niche]

how are you supposed to get up close with dual blades?

[sleek obsidian]

you switch to a gun

[alpine niche]

mf

what if i want to have fun

[sleek obsidian]

you use cl-40

[compact tundra]

Skill issue

[sleek obsidian]

id rather use spear 😐

[compact tundra]

Bruh spear is better with winch. But flamethrower mesh or goo is actually so fun

[sleek obsidian]

id rather use goo sledge

[compact tundra]

It's really just the blocking and having tight movement, dual blades need some love bad

[compact tundra]

I mean that is fun but ever since they removed goo planes and launchers it hasn't been the same for me

It makes me want to chase a high that isn't there anymore

[pale lantern]

Will they ever make spear throwable

[muted condor]

NO

[compact tundra]

Not if borgon has his way

[olive mason]

nerf knifes into the ground

[muted condor]

To the hyena pit with you!

[compact tundra]

Literally sent that as yours got sent

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/ed-hyena-gif-18356484

[compact tundra]

I've been practicing my flamethrower just for you

[muted condor]

Noooo

[tame nacelle]

Minigun?

[compact tundra]

Yes

[tame nacelle]

I was talking to him personally man…

[compact tundra]

Oh sorry you didn't reply to him, I thought it was general

[tame nacelle]

Trying to speak with the love of my life…. 250 bullets of freedom

[compact tundra]

I see, I'll respect your privacy

[tame nacelle]

Ight thx

[whole smelt]

For any medium mains who use the cb repeater what scope do you think is best with it?

[compact tundra]

I like the semi-circle red dot one. But I don't play repeater too much, it's just by far the best for me

[whole smelt]

Is that the one that the fcar normally has

[compact tundra]

No it's not standard on any gun. It's a circle but doesn't go all the way around, got no clue on its actual name, let me look it up

Its called the looking glass I think

[whole smelt]

Ohh ok yea that scope is really nice on a ton of weapons tbh

[compact tundra]

It just has great visibility

[whole smelt]

I use it on the akm and shak I find it easy that way

[alpine niche]

any ars/smgs that dont have a ton of recoil>

[winter jay]

I use looking glass the other ones are either too small or block my vision

[swift cradle]

Arn/xp

[obsidian nexus]

light class overtuned asf

[eager wasp]

looking glass

[deep jackal]

Anyone have any gun recommendations?

[eager wasp]

dagger

[obsidian nexus]

cl40

[heavy mason]

You guys should add a fake cash out tool so they follow that one instead to throw them off

[brittle sigil]

NERF SMOKE ALREADY. Im sick of losing to kids going 2-39 doubling the last box and throwing 9 smokes on it.

[deep jackal]

Doing that rn

[deep jackal]

[eager wasp]

goodluck soldier o7 you'll need it

[lofty dove]

im proud of you son

[deep jackal]

🥹

[boreal laurel]

Tracking dart 🤡

[cold gyro]

Chat what’s the opinion everyone has on mini gun?

[royal pier]

M11 with extra steps

[lusty garden]

hype moments and aura

[brisk geyser]

lota shields

[muted condor]

A tier heavy weapon

Definitely worth learning

[spring scaffold]

I use either holo or the zoomed in one,

[scarlet dust]

its actual name is the okp7

[stoic garden]

is it still broken on shak

[polar cedar]

red dot and adder reflex are both great

[stoic garden]

how

[polar wagon]

is the lewis gun on the heavy kind of bad or am i just ass with it ? i feel like i have to dump half a mag into a light sometimes and i've always loved the lewis gun in any game i've played

[plush finch]

Its aliright ig

[stoic garden]

lewis gun kills in nearly the same time as the m60, it's the recoil that's kind of harsh

takes 7 bullets for bodyshots only to kill a light

[polar wagon]

i am using it for medium range fights , is it supposed to be used at a different range ?

[stoic garden]

it's the mid-long range counterpart of the m60

but it's just as good in close range, the only problem is really just the recoil

lewis falloff range and damage at max range

as you can see it should do way better than the m60, but the m60 has way easier recoil

[polar wagon]

maybe that is my problem , i'll play a bit more and try to get used with it

[plush finch]

Each gun is useful if your good enough with it btw

[polar wagon]

fair enough

[spring scaffold]

Yeah, I just always have preferred holo sights, honestly any sight is good

[spring scaffold]

If I was u I’d personally swap to either shak-50, M60, or sa shotgun, they’re are the best meta weapons for if u try to play ranked

I use m60 out of the three because shak has too little ammo, and I just can’t use sa

[bronze skiff]

Shak 50 needs an ammo buff

[spring scaffold]

for sure, I reckon 25 is a solid spot,

[bronze skiff]

Yeah seems fair

[plucky spade]

Ιn defence of the sword having the lunge qm combo, matter does this as well

[placid slate]

mfs are argueing about lunge + qm, when you can barely land the qm in the first place because of aimlock?

[fathom cove]

let us control turrets when we die

[fathom cove]

double barrel looks weird

[winter jay]

Shak is a top 2 weapon rn it doesn’t need a buff

[bronze skiff]

Just an ammo increase to 25 instead of 20

[winter jay]

Doesn’t need it

You want high capacity close range take the sa

[compact tundra]

Bro even when you hit the QM combo the game tells you NO

Actual fucking highway robbery

[placid slate]

average melee hit reg after the update designed to fix melee hitreg

[muted condor]

Shak should not be touched at all and could even use some tuning down if anything

[stoic garden]

i think the only one that matters is vs medium where lewis does 1.32 and m60 1.24

(bodyshots only btw)

[compact tundra]

I think it's ok where it is but maybe a slight nerf could be ok. But I think the low mag overall balances it out, maybe make it 18 shots instead of 20 idk. Or make the reload longer. But I think it's fine where it is.

[sudden pewter]

Your body will not be found.

The Shak is the pinnacle of weapon balance. Perfect in form and function.

[jolly pine]

shak is balanced, it doesn’t need any changes

[compact tundra]

Bruh, I just know I only hit bodies and that thing still shreds. I agree it's very well balanced

[sudden pewter]

Your heresy has been noted. You will be left behind during the rapture.

[stoic garden]

it's mostly well balanced but winch makes it too easy to shred with

[sudden pewter]

Shak doesn’t need Winch.

[jolly pine]

Shak is good with every spec

[compact tundra]

I mean yes but winch is like THE pick to go with it

[jolly pine]

The problem here is that winch is unbalanced and it needs a nerf/rework

[sudden pewter]

Winch is THE pick to go with every weapon

I love Winch but it isn’t good for game health.

[compact tundra]

I mean all heavy specs are good just in different ways

[jolly pine]

Winch counters almost every heavy spec, goo gun is the only exception here

[sudden pewter]

Not disagreeing, it’s another demat issue

[compact tundra]

IDK man I think winch is fine if we allowed mesh to block it and let mash juggle a bit more.

[jolly pine]

Winch is not healthy for the game, same as goo grandes

[sudden pewter]

Why use anything else when X exists

[sudden pewter]

Winch fishing is problematic. It simplifies engagements even at high levels of play

[compact tundra]

Let's take my heavy main for example.

Flame thrower + winch allows easy kills and a free pick if I can aim well. As well as cashbox manipulation

Flamethrower + goo gun allows stalling players and burning them while there stalled, and let's me set up defences that I can ignite at any time. Also let's me climb and croung to places I otherwise couldn't

Flamethrower + charge allows me to surprise people through walls and adds more destruction to my kit, as well as giving me a good escape tool and finisher should my ammo get low

Flamethrower + mesh allows me to better protect myself especially when out of range, allows me to close the distance, and juggle the shield to maximize afterburn damage while keeping myself safe

All have good uses

[sudden pewter]

I like that Heavy has a reflexive displacement tool. It helps fighting highly mobile burst heavy opponents and levels the playing field since Heav cannot have mobility.

But that on-demand utility is also problematic because it doesn’t require setup, putting monkeys in a row for kills

[indigo nexus]

Not really sure what you mean by this. They all matter

[sudden pewter]

Again, as I do with Medium I’m not saying Heavies other specs are bad. Just not as powerful as one option

[shell sonnet]

mgl32 in question:

[jolly pine]

Winch hard counters both C&S and Mesh shield, winch also doesn’t require good aim because of the hitbox , and using only one gun as a example doesn’t show the full picture of why winch is unbalanced

[compact tundra]

I agree that should be changed

[sudden pewter]

You still need to time & aim Winch, it’s just that the return pull is still active and many players forget that

[compact tundra]

Winch shouldn't go through shields and it should stop the charge and slam but not pull them

[jolly pine]

Return pull is dumb, there is no reason to reward someone missing their winch

[sudden pewter]

Sometimes it isn’t accidental, the timing of the return can be gaged and used regularly

[compact tundra]

But I also think mesh should have juggle charges. like how the SA12 has those bars over the ammo. It should have 3 charges that don't effect the health, but you can only activate it if you have a charge. Probably 8 second recharge time per charge

[jolly pine]

Yea but it reduces the mechanical skill that winch is supposed to have

[compact tundra]

I think return pulls are funny, that is my only opinion on those

[shell sonnet]

theoretically, if we were to rework winch to be non-combat utility, what could we make it do?

ofc more range to grab statues
maybe destruction/pulling broken walls

any ideas?

[sudden pewter]

I don’t think so, Winch is a throw & return. If someone dodges the throw and not the return I view it as a skill issue

[shell sonnet]

rip out turrets/barricades

[sudden pewter]

But I totally see where you’re coming from

[jolly pine]

Is really hard to see a winch mid fight, there is not enough visual feedback when someone uses their winch

[sudden pewter]

When a Winch is cut or disconnected it falls to the floor and glows red. I’d like to see that on the return pull

[tame quiver]

Breaker bar sledgehammer skin

Should in fact exist

[royal pier]

Which effects like 1% or less of the playerbase.

I have never been winch fished with Demat.

[royal pier]

People act like you can drastically effect the return pull, but you literally just have to strafe the same direction they move to avoid it.

[rain forge]

shak 50, m60 or lewis gun? ive experimented and shak 50 is the best overall but i want to hear other peoples opinions

[sudden pewter]

• Shak
• M60
• Lewis
  In that order

[rain forge]

I will try more m60

[sudden pewter]

M60 is great, the horizontal recoil on the Lewis kills it for me

[royal pier]

Make use of the crouched hipfire. Weirdly good on M60.

[orchid sandal]

I'm a little confused and I have a question about demat

[sudden pewter]

It’s okay my child, ask away

[orchid sandal]

It's not the first time this has happened, but several times during matches I pull it out and trigger it against a wall or something, right?

Am I crazy in thinking there's a lockout period between when I hit the button and when I can actually demat a wall?

[sudden pewter]

You need to let the pull-out animation finish aye, but it’s pretty fast

[orchid sandal]

I press the demat button on my mouse, I get the ui showing the wall is blue or whatever, but I have to intentionally wait a couple seconds to trigger

is there any way to demat faster?

It's gotten me murdered a couple times because I pull it out and click the wall and swap back to primary, and I'm just stuck there with no wall dematted looking like an idiot lol

usually in clutch situations too, which pains me more

[sudden pewter]

When it glows blue it’s showing you the selection

You need to hit it again to actually demat the wall

[orchid sandal]

I'm tracking, I'm not new, I just wanted to confirm that there is a second or so between the tool selection and the actual ability to use it in the environment

and that there's no tech or anything I can do to mitigate that

[sudden pewter]

Afaik no, but the time before you can actually use the demat is very small, unless you’re already hugging the wall when you pull it out I don’t see how you could mess up the timing

The demat has a little bit of range so if you’re not already I’d suggest whipping it out while running so you can demat ahead of you

[orchid sandal]

usually in these situations I am indeed hugging a wall

it's usually not a floor or ceiling

like when it happened yesterday it was kyoto and I was in a clutch 1v3

killed two, 1hp left and running from a guy trying to reset and I tried to demat a wall and flubbed it because I guess I was too close

I just fucked up the chain, opened demat, selected wall and activated it, and swapped back to my main weapon

but because it was too soon no demat actually happened and I just looked silly and died

[weak oxide]

I just got the Akimbos and holy hell, I think these things were actually made for me. I love them so much and it's been ONE game

[sudden pewter]

Could be worse, you could have been playing Light

[sudden pewter]

Jimbo’s are fantastic if you have a propensity for popping grapes

[weak oxide]

Also I got a team wipe with them so I'm happy

[weak oxide]

Even then body shots on L/M is decent, but yeah if you can aim at the head you're golden

[plucky spade]

Fuck the db and everything it represents in gaming

[compact tundra]

Agreed. Me and my sword homies hate DB

[plucky spade]

Fuck it imma agree with a light player

[compact tundra]

Welcome to the dark side. The solution to DB is to get good enough at DB where you can rage switch and make their life hell. That's what I do. Oh a sweaty Cloak DB wiped my team, welp time to break out the dash DB

[wide onyx]

Just wish it had a longer reload

[plucky spade]

but db is boring asf who the fuck likes that shit

[compact tundra]

Don't got a good clip of me rage switching so I just used my favorite DB clip

[plucky spade]

Get it the fuck out of here y'all got the more fun alternative
Sword

[wide onyx]

I don't disagree.

[compact tundra]

Hate filled people. Use your hate, become what you hate to make them rage quit

[wide onyx]

But theyre not gonna be vaulting weapons sadly.

[plucky spade]

recon got vaulted, also matter exists

[compact tundra]

Not anymore, now it's just ass unless you really know what your doing

[wide onyx]

db should just be merged into sword. Sword in your right hand and db in the left

[plucky spade]

if you know you got lunge, if you don't left click is now a 3 hit kill on meds and 2 hit kill on lights

[compact tundra]

Lunge used to be 2 hit on medium

[plucky spade]

well now you have to insert a qm

[compact tundra]

Making it 2 + QM I'm now realizing kinda sucks because mediums are still kinda fast and they have some pretty high DPS guns

[wide onyx]

The lock on rotation should end as soon as you qm

Would make it a bit more reliable while still being fair methinks

[compact tundra]

No it's gotta go entirely. You can't even turn your camera to hit combos which makes the mobility not matter when fighting, basically killing the weapons combat abilities outside of jumping people already fighting

[wide onyx]

That's what I'm saying. At the very least there shouldn't be a rotation lock on qm

[shell sonnet]

imo this is a really interesting combat space (like, with most but not everything destroyed), should we work more with this?

[wide onyx]

Work with it?

It's ok. I'd prefer having thst full building undestroyed

[shell sonnet]

like, add items, events or whatever to make this more likely?

[compact tundra]

I think having at all is unacceptable. The QM combi doesn't matter if they can just hold the A key and avoid the lunge entirely

[wide onyx]

More building destruction without player intervention?

Perchance.

I prefer my buildings intact personally

[shell sonnet]

i mean maybe with player interaction
thing is, mass scale destruction would be really powerful to put in the hands of a single player

[wide onyx]

Call that sledgehammer

[shell sonnet]

but maybe the arena items could be buffed, explosive shells for monaco/skyway canons, bigger wrecking balls etc.

[plucky spade]

dont it work like that?

just went 5/8 in dm kill me rn

[wide onyx]

I don't believe so

[compact tundra]

Yes and no. There saying it should end as soon as you click the QM button so you can readjust your screen for the combo. Currently there's a delay before it ends

[plucky spade]

washed fn

aight that should change, and I still believe horizontal clamping should be 120

the clamping was actually good

[wide onyx]

They should've atleast buffed it to 90 in both directions not just vertically lol

[shell sonnet]

the wrecking balls in particular are kind of lacking imo, i know they wanna change destruction if they fall on things, but that doesnt make people wanna interact with them more, just destroy them so that that does something

[uncut zephyr]

that is the best idea ive ever heard

[muted condor]

The fact that the wrecking balls break before they can break any structure is boring

[hexed tulip]

true

[muted condor]

The ball and cable should be basically indestructible imo

[swift fiber]

I've been seeing it a lot and Ive been wondering... Do we unironically want grapple hook to be buffed?

[muted condor]

Dash, demat, and winch need to be brought into line

[sudden pewter]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Grapple. It just isn’t Dash.

[plucky spade]

ye

but then what you doing if dash stops being dash, sword is gutted

[swift fiber]

What are you trying to say, those are the most used specializations

[sweet echo]

anyone know if ads effects spread at all?

[wide onyx]

Yeah your hip fire will be less accurate than ads for most weapons

Shotguns and stuff like gls and flamethrower are unaffected

[compact tundra]

I think everything else needs to be brought up. Winch is a bit op but demat and dash work well, they just don't have real competition

Well grapple is decent competition but I think it's one charge turns a lot of players off even tho it isn't bad by any means

[midnight cypress]

Nerf the pike please

[compact tundra]

@tidal leaf

[raw cave]

i think dash need a bit of tuning. its too opressive

[shell sonnet]

it isnt?

[compact tundra]

I don't think it is, it's just super useful for survivability, which light desperately needs. If you nerf dash you will kinda kill lights ability to survive fights severely nerfing the class itself

Grapple is more of a utility and escape tool, and cloak is countered by a decent monitor

[muted condor]

Touch a building with the cable and it snaps

[shell sonnet]

mustve never noticed...
because why would i even try to use it with how weak it is

[compact tundra]

I feel like the wrecking ball should be able to do like 100 DMG when it hits players, still wouldn't be nearly worth it but very funny if it kills someone

[muted condor]

Should be able to level buildings with it

[young pewter]

It does

[weak oxide]

Dash should be removed /hj

Also MAN the FCAR slaps

[compact tundra]

Big, then just fix the chain and it'll be a very funny way to throw

[somber jewel]

I want no sights to give an ADS buff. harder to see, no one uses it other than it looks cool.

[compact tundra]

That would make the game inconsistent and make weapon balance even more complicated, something embark definitely doesn't need rn. They can't even handle balance with the current weapons

[somber jewel]

visual recoil?

[compact tundra]

That would heavily effect balance on guns like the m60 and lewis gun

I think iron sights giving you respect points is enough. It's why you're a bitch if you put a scope on the revolver

[sudden pewter]

Damn bro didn’t need to ping the poor dude

He was born with glass bones and paper skin and you’re dragging him over coals smh

[compact tundra]

He deserves it. Plus I'm on cooldown in the feedback channel so I couldn't shit talk there

[warm pasture]

real

[wide onyx]

I'm sure he'd hate it more if he was dragged over light swords

[compact tundra]

Im glad everyone just agrees genuine skill issue. Not one person has attempted to refute that yet. I wonder how this guy would handle peak sword, not ore-nerf sword. But the true season 3 peak sword with the 10m lunge and like 20m super lunge

[normal ice]

It's funny how they randomly nerfed Sword's damage by 25% midseason because it had a bug only like 3.14 people could use consistently, but multiple shotguns out here are casually getting +40 damage a shot with animation cancels and nobody cares

Esports ready btw

@alpine heart #👂┇game-feedback message
Why don't you try applying that same logic to weapons that aren't dogshit tier like the CL-40? Repeater, Model, Cerberus, and Revolver can all do over 100 damage with hitscan.

(Pike out-TTKs it, too, but doesn't "basically one shot" L 😋)

[little blade]

tbf, sword is kinda busted, it doesn't need a nerf, more like more counters. I have been running sword for few months now and you can wipe whole team solo if you're good with it and coupled with dash.

What it needs more counter gadgets cuz the only counter to it is glitch mine and glitch grenade (which is hit or miss due to detonation time and you can hit yourself with it)

and I know shotguns and pyro also exist, tho I'm more talking about sword users who have brains instead of sugar rush juice inside their skulls

[alpine niche]

how much damage does the explosion from gas being ignited do?

[vocal stone]

I think that gas ignition doesn't deal any damage at all

[alpine niche]

dammit
it should

[vocal stone]

Yeah, I also think that. But I tried it at the practice range with dummies and they didn't receive any dmg

[normal ice]

clanker detected

[uneven shore]

👀

[sudden pewter]

That’s their word.

You can say “clanka”

[compact tundra]

The counter is to shoot them. Good aim and positioning is it's hard counter

[little blade]

refer to last part of my sentence

[compact tundra]

Brother unless you're playing in casual it doesn't matter how good your movement is. 150 health melts very quickly to someone who can headshot

[little blade]

ok this is just heading to impasse

it very much matters how good is your movement, because otherwise Light is objectively worst class if it wasn't the case

because if we bring topic on any lights weapon, you can just always answer with "Aim at heads, they don't have much health anyway, easy"

my point was, if light with sword and dash is good and acts smart, sword can be very oppressive and it has no counters besides glitch stuff and flamethrower. As I said, I've played with light sword and dash for a while now, I have 10+ almost every game with this setup, Ranked and World Tour, I know how to play around them and frankly lot of those counter gadgets are easy to avoid if you know how to - Glitch mine is easy as you can just start dashing from a far and add sword dash which allows you to overshoot the mine. Glitch nade is always hit or miss cuz of detonation time. Hardest one is flamethrower, but you bring flashbang or smokes, it becomes negligible. Mines are also good, but you have to lure light into them which is situational. That pretty much it on countering the sword. Even hammer has more counters (Which I also main as well) - distance itself, sniper rifles, glitch (against winch), nullifier, lock bolt and flashbang honestly.

That's why I think bit more counter gadgets wouldn't hurt in this case as Sword and Dash especially are pretty popular picks rn but have few counters compared to other melees.

Sword rn is strongest MELEE weapon due to it's skill ceiling and reasons I stated above. Second is Sledge tho.

[spice cape]

Doesn't the lockbolt thing counter them pretty hard?

[little blade]

Yep, forgot about it. Tho you can also avoid it if you already know Heavy has it.

If heavy uses it in long distance, you can quickly break it and escape, if it close distance, then it's no use, light can still reach heavy. Best case is medium distance.

again, that's if Light is playing smart

[boreal laurel]

One thing that makes sword’s life miserable is spear. That is, it would if the hitboxes on spear weren’t such a bugfest

[little blade]

Spear can be such a good counter, but yeah, hitboxes are meh

[spice cape]

I was just getting bodied by a light sword last match lol, It's pretty tough to counter but I didn't have the lockbolt on me; I'd imagine having the high ground and trying to predict would be the best way but it's just not consistently doable. Even when you try to kite they just get you so quickly.

[little blade]

High ground could also be good strategy but it can easily by overruled with gateway

done it many times with it, best you can do to avoid dying is sticking together with team

sword is best on 1v1 or when you have lot of corners and pillars to retreat to. In open fields, it a death sentence

[spice cape]

Solo Q challenge mode level 9th gate of hell.

[spice cape]

It's definitely a 1v1 machine, like a knife through hot butter

[normal ice]

It's really not as good as you make it sound. Consider what Sword does that other weapons don't: slightly better movement and the potential to multi-hit. Otherwise, many of the guns kill faster than Sword literally ever could... and from range.

The counter to Sword isn't Glitch Trap or mines or whatever. Those help, but they're not necessary. The counter is staying in eyeshot of your team on highground without literally bearhugging. If the Sword user tries to get into range, they can be deleted before even dealing 1 damage.

If highground isn't possible, then you stay out in the open. If you're forced to play indoors, then you close off as many flanks as possible. Both of these limit the angles Sword can approach (and Light in general for the second tip, but it's extra potent against Sword because they have to physically close the distance from the flank to you to deal the damage).

[compact tundra]

Every other light weapon has a far better ttk. Sword isn't the worst light weapon but it isn't far off, and good movement doesn't fix that, it helps, but ultimately with screen clamping and the new harder combos it doesn't help enough.

If dash sword acts smart why are we assuming the enemies are dumb enough to put themselves in position where the sword would beat them. It's pitting a very good sword against mediocre players, which then obviously the swords going to win. But sword doesn't even need hard counters to lose, (revolver, Pike, repeater, famas, KS-23, D-eagles, Shak-50, SA-12, flamethrower, spear, CL-40, Cerberus, all light weapons besides dagger), melt the light before they can even do anything presuming the player is good. You make sword sound way better than it is, but outside the hands of a god-tier sword player these will always win assuming both players have equally high skill. Sword works when you flank and attack when they're fighting your team and they don't see you, but every weapon wins when they don't see you, dagger would win if they don't see you. Sword right now is not the strongest melee, not even close really. Riot shield, Spear, and sledge all out class it given there in the hands of a weapon specialist. Sword has a very high skill ceiling, but that doesn't mean it's the best in the game, it just means it's hard to get really good at it. If we were talking two seasons ago I would agree but we're not, current sword is not the best melee, it's the best utility melee.

[alpine niche]

what is screen clamping?

[compact tundra]

With current sword, while lunging your screen clamps at 40°. Meaning you can't move your screen more than 40°

It's basically killed swords combo game, because you can't actually turn your screen to hit the other part of the combo.

[modern rune]

omg i cannot stand the pike

[compact tundra]

Yea pretty annoying but I don't think it needs a massive toning down. Probably needs a hip fire Nerf and then maybe a slight damage nerf to put it more on par with the repeater

[muted condor]

Definitely needs to be worse at close range

[modern rune]

exactly! at the moment it just excels at so much it doesnt need much but some small tuning like the nerfs you described would do wonders for my mental health

[compact tundra]

Big Time agree there

[compact tundra]

The thing I found most annoying is the hip fire. That hip fire is weirdly accurate

[modern rune]

yeah its annoying when my assumption that ill have the advantage up close ends with me dead

[compact tundra]

Yeah it hurts big time as a sword main. Close the distance to think I've got them only to get fucking hipfire melted.

[normal ice]

I don't think it needs a damage nerf. An RPM nerf would be fine

And maybe a hipfire nerf or mag size nerf to go along with it

[eager wasp]

cut its ammo count in half!

[normal ice]

Nah, that's a bit too much lol

[weak oxide]

Throwing Knives are goated when I can actually hit my shots

[swift cradle]

I think the trend of nerfing guns needs to stop. The guns are all very balanced at this point.

[compact tundra]

I wouldn't say that. I think some nerfs are warranted, just like some buffs are warranted

[swift cradle]

You either nerf a gun until it's useless or another gun ends up taking it's place in terms of dps and that's the next thing people complain about.

You're not gonna reach a perfect balance.

[compact tundra]

So we do nothing. You won't achieve perfect balance, but you sure as hell can get close. There's no reason to throw nerfing completely off the table when it is inevitably mandatory

Nerfing something into the ground is a problem, but that's an embark problem, not a fundamental problem with nerfing itself

[arctic stump]

hipfire ftw

[muted condor]

Naw pike NEEDS a nerf

It out performs ARs in almost every situation

[cunning kettle]

perfectly fine in the eyes of embark

[tender lava]

Why can’t i type in here

nerf the winch claw and riot shield. Both require no skill, the riot shield will either chase you till you just kill your self, and the winch claw makes you defenseless for 3 seconds while the attackers animation is extremely fast to pull out their weapon of choice let alone he just pulled you away from your team into his team while the whole time you are completely defenseless and getting damaged by winch claw and 3 opponents

[wise skiff]

Me likey the minigun
It goes brrrrrrr

[wide parrot]

man actually warming up to the minigun these days, if you just hold the center to the target it actually hits really well

[wary zephyr]

very well

[eager wasp]

spam! banned! no vc perms for you ever

[wary zephyr]

Awww man

I just want ranked teammates

[alpine heart]

Ok maybe i went a bit too far but i what i wanted to say is they should at least nerf it. The weapons you mentioned are completely different. They are at best close to mid range and require a bit of skill to hit with them (especially the revolver) + most of them got nerfed, unlike the CL that just shoots, has splash damage, has the range of a sniper, and basically 2 shots Lights. I wasnt referring to all classes it was just Light that gets killed very fast by the CL. If you use shotgun from up close most of the times CL wins which kinda forces you not to play shotguns when there is CL

[desert kindle]

Is the stun gun back? If so what’s the rework

[runic lava]

Regarding demat, when the camera aberrates and gives a double vision like effect on players where it separates the colour outline and body when looking through a dematerialized surface. My question is where is the hitbox? the outline or body?

[shell sonnet]

instead of being slowed, you instead become "non-physical" in a way
you drop any items youre holding like the cashbox
you cant interact with ziplines, doors and buttons
you cant shoot, but you also do not take damage

[void ice]

Body

[plucky spade]

Oh so that's why i miss all my shots

[indigo nexus]

It effectively outright removes the other player from the game for a few seconds (though they can still move around, but that’s about it)

stops steals, prevents plays and can save you in a bad scenario

[viral veldt]

Would anyone be down to spar about new gadgets? My idea was revisit gadgets that aren’t used as much, give all existing gadgets variations instead of making new ones so they are being utilised more and get new ways to play with. Using a crafting system where we can buy a variant with the gold we saved up from deposits during matches. For example gravity cube makes everything come down and damages you if you’re hit by the debris. Healing ball leaches onto enemies and damages them instead of healing you, pyro made becomes ice and slows enemies, turret becomes a close range shotty. Think the devs would come up with better variations than I do but the concept itself would help some gadgets being used more because most of them don’t get used at all. Curious to see your guys take and ideas!

[maiden nest]

You know, it'd be great if Heavy had a gadget that allowed it to quickly and fully recover HP, but locking you in place without being able to do anything while it's going. Maybe it could be some kind of consumable, a food item, like a sandwich 🤔

[plucky spade]

Tf2 Heavy

[warped flame]

What are peoples thoughts on winching through dome shield should it exist?
(Not gonna talk about through walls, cos obviously that isn't intended)