💣┇weapons-gadgets

[thick holly]

Sadly the shield goes down one you start to steal, but yeah I think you can block explosions for teammates

When I didn't play heal beam, I used to body block with the riot shield. But now that I main heal beam, I focus on healing since riot blocking can be inconsistent

[still magnet]

@vernal latch

I’ve got 1.7k hours in this game. I work full-time as a bartender, got two days off a week, and I play a few hours in the evening when I get home. I’ve played every melee weapon in this game. And unless you’ve actually leveled a melee weapon to at least level 3 or 5 and played it in ranked or against very good teams and not clankers in Quick Cash, I don’t really want to hear strong takes on it. Melee is literal garbage unless you one-trick it.

And I do. I’ve been one-tricking Dagger since release. I am the only Dagger player in high elo for a reason. It is that bad. If I peek with an M11, I kill a medium before my Dagger even finishes winding up. That’s the TTK difference. Dagger lost everything. No more goo pierce, no more mesh pierce, no more wall clips, less damage, longer wind-up, movement slow, hitreg inconsistencies, and it cannot even one shot deployables like turrets anymore. It has nothing left.

Sure, melee has some gimmicks. Spear has AoE which can interrupt steals. Dual blades can parry but that doesn’t make them good, just annoying if anything. Sledge has the destruction niche. But none of them are good in real matches. They are just weird. Melee isn’t strong. It is just situational.

And it’s always been part of the game. This is an asymmetrical shooter. You got flamethrowers, bows, grenade launchers. That’s what this game is. The devs literally said in the AMA they plan to add more sandbox weapons. If you don’t like that, maybe this game is not for you.

Also, if we are talking about things that ruin the flow, a DB or Cerberus running into your face and two-tapping every class is way more frustrating than anything melee could ever do. I would rather fight a Sledge than any shotgun in the current patch. Shotguns delete people faster than melee even starts swinging.

You don’t have to like melee, fair. But saying it ruins the game is just not based in actual gameplay or experience. Especially not at higher levels.

[vocal thunder]

I hate people that Teamblock my bullets

[ashen hawk]

Casual gadget ideas:

Light:

• Nanoswarm grenade-- Releases a swarm of nanobots that lock on an opponent and damage them for a max of 70 dmg. Can be countered by smoke, glitch.
• MAGG (Mini AntiGadget Grenade) Launcher-- Launches 3 small grenades that deal instant damage to things like turrets, gateways, mines, antigrav, etc. and deals 40dmg each to opponents after a small wind-up if no gadget is detected.
• Energizer-- Little turret-like machine that occasionally burst with energy in a considerable radius to increase movement and reload speeds

Medium:

• Flamethrower turret-- Spews fire in a cone-like range, for six seconds before overheating, then cooling down. Deals lesser damage than fire from fire barrels or pyro nades but still considerable.
• Anti-Entry Spikes-- Little spikes that can be thrown in places to deal small damage to opponents that step on them. Damages consistently until the enemy uses a prompt to take it out.

Heavy:

• Tactical Airstrikes-- DISCLAIMER: GIVES A WARNING FOR A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME, then wreaks havoc on a large area of land, mainly destroys buildings and deals great damage if missiles hit an opponent directly. The plane that does the airstrikes comes pretty low and can be shot down before the airstrikes.

• Seismic Breach-- Equips a metal arm that can send a wave of energy that deals high structural and general damage after a wind-up, also takes some time to send the energy blast.

[thick holly]

Mhm, the main reason why I stopped doing it is because it's actually fairly risky with the riot shield. Since you can unintentionally stop your own teammates steal

So you have to play slightly further away than you would for normal body blocks, and it's hard whenever an enemy shows up from the other direction

[wide onyx]

That guy got so angry lol

[muted condor]

Holy shit someone with a actually good take in here

[wide onyx]

Melee haters really have no temperament

[muted condor]

People can’t accept the fact that sledge is literally the ONLY good melee in the game

And it’s not even a meta weapon it’s just passable

[wide onyx]

Say it ain't so.....

[thick holly]

I find melee just to be fun more than anything

[muted condor]

It can be fun but only for so long

[thick holly]

Eh it depends on how you see the game

[muted condor]

There comes a point that throwing matches to play a weapon that will always put you at a disadvantage to anyone with gets super old

[thick holly]

Cuz I just l play the game casually, I don't even touch ranked

[muted condor]

I used to play melee almost exclusively but in ranked up high enough it’s actually not even possible to do it for fun

[thick holly]

And melee is some of the most fun I've ever had in this game

[wide onyx]

For sure it is. But the nerfs make it that you need to play 2x better than your enemy for the same reward as sitting up on a rooftop and shooting

[thick holly]

Yeah that's fair. I do agree in ranked it's not very viable unless you are extremely skilled. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with weapons that are only really good in casual

[wide onyx]

The fact that there could be viable melee, or that there was at one point, makes finals so interesting as an fps

[ashen latch]

For casual players one of the most terrifying things to them fsr is the riot sheild. If ur good with it, it hurts a lot

[thick holly]

Yeah from what I heard is that sledge, even with the nerfs, I'd still fairly viable

Maybe not for top players, but there's more than just top players

[thick holly]

Good to know I scare people lol

[ashen latch]

Bro riot sheild underrated as hell

[thick holly]

Yeah it's really good once you know it's strengths and weaknesses

[still magnet]

Me or him? Cause I am just passionate about this game and melee

[thick holly]

I've seen so many people try to play as the frontline as riot shield, always gets melted. It's more of a stall/distraction/flank weapon

I usually run healbeam that way I can still provide some use to the team even in a ranged fight

[wide onyx]

Him

[muted condor]

The annoying part is they could be a off meta play style that isn’t just throwing the match but embark refuses to actually fix anything

[thick holly]

Yeah, all riot shield really needs is more consistency

The damage and tech is SO good, if consistency is better than it would be near perfectly balanced

[muted condor]

Duel blades have be literally broken for four season and they haven’t even said anything about them

[thick holly]

I say near because the spear and sledge exists lol

(I don't hate the weapons, I'm just not a fan they're a near 100% hard counter to shield)

[still magnet]

Riot shield is insane for onetricks atm

It’s good as is and doesn’t need anything but mastery by the player atm

[thick holly]

Yeah, it's definitely a mastery weapon. Which I think is good

[rich dragon]

what is the best guns on light and heavy atm?

[near scroll]

isn't the shield desync still an issue though? as in visual of shield model is not aligned with shield's blocking hitbox?

[thick holly]

there should be "some" weapons that take a lot of knowledge to know and to play well

[near scroll]

either way i think riot's weird to play cause you're kinda gambling in a way, it's very tough to correctly estimate how much damage you're gonna take

[thick holly]

Yeah true, it really depends on how good the other player is at tracking

[still magnet]

Dagger is the purest form of gambling atp

[near scroll]

dagger gambling = will he die?
riot gambling = will i die?

two sides of the same coin, brother

[still magnet]

If he doesn’t die I die bruh

[near scroll]

you know what i mean 😭

[thick holly]

As a riot shield main. Yeah it can be very inconsistent at times and has a lot of hard counters. But dang it's such a fun weapon with so much tech to it

[near scroll]

do you "quick melee gadget swap anim cancel tech thingy™ " whatever this name is too long?

[thick holly]

No

[near scroll]

fair enough

[thick holly]

I do stuff like bishoping, blocking grenades/flashbangs, blocking winches, insta zipline break, insta cashout stop, etc

And when I'm circling, I tend to flick my mouse with every swing so I can maximize the passive block

[near scroll]

what's insta zip break? does swing qm do enough structural dmg?

and by insta cashout stop do you mean using shield to break LoS thus cancelling a steal?

[thick holly]

If you swing and then do a quick melee, it breaks the zipline near instantly

[thick holly]

Yes

[vernal latch]

You’re mentioning me in chats I’m not even in get your weird ass on dude I don’t gaf about you or your opinion I’m not reading that shit we can give our game feed back in peace it’s called fucking game feed back you weird fuck I don’t want to talk to you leave me the fuck a lone weird bitch doing all this because I said I think the game would be better without melee you obsessive ass bitch

[thick holly]

I've gotten a few kills with this because people weren't expecting me to break the zipline so quickly, helps with escapes too

[near scroll]

damn bitch u crazy

[vernal latch]

This mf is fucking going on for days because I said the game would be better without melee it’s been days of this person @ me just simply because I gave game feedback in the feedback chat dude is obsessive and weird leave me alone

I should be able to have an opinion without being fucking stalked

[near scroll]

damn both u bitches crazy

why do people hate melee so much tho

[vernal latch]

Nothing crazy about wanting to be left alone

I just think the game would flow better without it no real hate I just feel the instances it comes up break flow of firefights

[still magnet]

„Days“ when it’s been 16h or so with 6h chat cooldown lmfao

[vernal latch]

Block

[muted condor]

[vernal latch]

It’s that’s simple

[muted condor]

Go play a different game

[vernal latch]

I’m not being harassed over some damn game feedback

I’ll play what I want to make me play another game or stfu

[muted condor]

Go back to fortnight and COD

[vernal latch]

Bitch I’ve been playing longer than you shut up running your mouth for nothing

[still magnet]

also, I only pinged you outside the feedback channel because of the cooldown. You said something public, I replied with actual experience, not insults. If you can’t handle someone disagreeing with your take, maybe don’t post in public channels. Simple as that.

You’re the one flipping out and throwing slurs over someone giving a structured response. That says more about you than anything I wrote. Grow up.

[vernal latch]

Double blocked ahhh quite peaceful now I’ll leave now because I never use this chat and don’t care and I’m only here because an obsessive stalking mf @ me

[earnest ether]

is Sledgehammer any good?

[muted condor]

Also saying an entire class of weapons in a game that is specifically made for them in a public channel made for making suggestions to the devs shouldn’t be a surprise when you get shit on

Let’s remove all running from Titan Fall next

[thick holly]

Yeah it is. I'm not sure in high competitive, but overall it's still a good weapon

[near scroll]

i'd say if you're willing to get comfortable with KS-23, it outclasses the sledge in like 80% of situations

[earnest ether]

think i wanna make a loadout with lockjaw or w/e its called, sledge, winch, and go full in on melee, maybe c4 and bubble too

the first 3 feel like they really complement each other

[muted condor]

Sledge is the best melee right now so it’s definitely the go to if you want to play melee

[near scroll]

lockbolt spear is pretty fun cause of the AoE spin move it has

[earnest ether]

oh yeah, that sounds good too

[muted condor]

Spear is more fun than sledge

Takes a lot more knowledge and tech to play tho

[near scroll]

honestly riot shield is super strong atm, just suffers from being on med

[near scroll]

who up cancellin' they spin??

[thick holly]

It being on medium makes the most sense though

[muted condor]

🗣️ 🔥

[earnest ether]

sledge skins are too good to pass up on the weapon, drip comes first

[thick holly]

If riot shield was on light, it would be way too annoying due to fast movement and the already smaller hitbox.

On heavy, it would just turn them into even more of a tank. Plus they already have mesh shield

[muted condor]

Also you might be putting time into the spear just for it to get completely gutted soon because embark is looking to remove melee tech in the near future

[earnest ether]

really? why? game would be so much more boring if ranged was the only playstyle

[ashen latch]

Weapon ideas:

MG-42 machine gun - leans more towards heavy or mb medium. High rate of fire with big mag, but not very good dpb and long reload time. A cross between the minigun and M60.

P50 SMG - An smg pick for the medium. Features good rate of fire and damage at the cost of range and spread.

Glock 17 / Berreta M9: Semi-auto pistol that is unsilenced. Mid mag size with reliable range, accuracy and damage. V9S for the medium.

AKS-74u (pretty sure that's it's name): A decent mid-close range AR for the light class. Imagine a smaller version of the AKM.

Uh... idk. I'll thing of more things ig.

[muted condor]

Youd have to ask embark why they like to take all the sand out of their sandbox shooter

[earnest ether]

did they specifically state they wanna remove melee tech? i mean i dont wanna put in the time to learn something only to get disappointed in future, and i dont really mean nerfs, but gutting something

[near scroll]

their official statement is something along the lines of : "we see techs as bugs in our code, however that doesn't mean all techs are bad. thus, we'll choose which techs we'll implement and which ones we fix."

[muted condor]

They said they wanted to address melee tech in the coming patches and they have never actually kept any community discovered tech for anything

Even harmless stuff like goo planes have been removed

[earnest ether]

if DE followed this for Warframe for example, movement wouldnt exist the way it does in that game, and therefore it would be completely different game and objectively worse

[muted condor]

And all the patches they have made to “make melee more viable” are actually just dumbing the weapons down

All they have done for melee is lower the skill floor

[still magnet]

Love me 11 dagger nerfs lifetime, a primary „hit detection buff“ will save the weapon guys

[thick holly]

I'm hoping all the tech I use for RS stays, because they are technically intentional

[muted condor]

I’m not very hopeful for anything melee related, I really don’t think embark actually gives a fuck about it

The only reason they say they want melee to be viable with every patch is to keep players from leaving without actually doing anything

[sudden pewter]

Verbatim they want to remove melee tech

[timber sparrow]

Cant believe turning the camera was an exploit 😔

[sudden pewter]

[muted condor]

Killing lights was a exploit 😔

[reef cedar]

lol

[reef cedar]

ehhhh I think melee folks will be alright

[shut bane]

Like sword lunges? I mean

[muted condor]

WE ALREADY ON LIFE SUPPORT

[shut bane]

I honestly couldn’t care less as a heavy if my weaboo stick doesn’t hit from behind a barricade either tbh, I just want it to hit accurately

[sudden pewter]

If you disagree with me, you will explode

Such is the fate of the damned

[muted condor]

It doesn’t anymore already

[shut bane]

Barely noticed lol

[muted condor]

And the hit detection is still shit 😂

[shut bane]

Thats what id like improved though tbh spears secondary attack fucking sucks balls anyway unless you’re playing power shift or in a really tight space

[muted condor]

Also they would probably be removing spin cancel and winch throwing

[shut bane]

Winch throwing is funny but it doesn’t constitute as melee tech does it

Not sure what they specified in that post honestly

[muted condor]

That’s literally what melee tech is

[shut bane]

But that’s a specialization that supports melee not melee itself

I kid

[muted condor]

I’m going to beat you with a hammer now

[novel cliff]

guys why do I find it hard to use the revolver, Cb1 repeater and the model. I currently have about 600 hrs in this game and I suck when using these weapons like what am I doing wrong. I play on console

[ashen hawk]

spear needs a fix. the amount of times my alt attack barely even hits the opponent is crazy asf

[merry trail]

Do you play Light at all? Not a bait genuine question

[novel cliff]

Bow main user so I play light

[muted condor]

They are pretty hard to use on console because you have to hit head shots

[ashen hawk]

if ur playing model now, its genuine shit and competing against other shotguns u will feel ass unless ur some top gun

revolver and repeater are real hard, u just have to practice aim and learn not to panic shoot (non stop firing which just makes recoil worse)

[merry trail]

Might be a clash of play style. Revolver in particular gets penalized like crazy if you're too mobile.

[novel cliff]

I have seen other console users pop off with them

[sudden pewter]

Console is your problem

[muted condor]

After this last patch spin is actually useless

[ashen hawk]

omd dont tell me they actually nerfed spear ill cry

[novel cliff]

so I should turn off auto sprint when using it?

[muted condor]

It’s possible but usually those people are one tricks

[novel cliff]

anytime I pick them up I play like a noob

[merry trail]

I would. It kills fast but if you're not still and aiming its accuracy jumps off a cliff

[muted condor]

Hit detection on spear just got really really bad

[ashen hawk]

not necessarily. console is mainly just terrible with the flickign problem. all he needs to do is practice his shots, get better at aiming cuz both these guns are low fire rate high dmg weapons

[novel cliff]

some matches I do well with them so matches I don't. and it has made me change my sensitivity so much haha

[novel cliff]

aiit

[muted condor]

If you touch a shield or piece of goo with the spin attack it pretty much cancels all damage you can deal

[ashen hawk]

just work a lot on ur aim, seriously. the revolver is an easy hit or miss gun, so u need to know when to run and when to stand still and shoot.

[novel cliff]

I'll try that. I just love the weapon but it sucks using it especially the revlver

[novel cliff]

I have stood at a spot and missed some shots and I ask myself why

[ashen hawk]

its fine, its just that its recoil is a bit messy so if ur firing really fast, recoil kinda builds up u could say.

so it takes patience to learn. try to hit ur shots at the head. if it doesnt, dont panic and start firing really fast. instead relocate a bit and focus again.

thing is, if u miss a shot, ur gonna be an easy target since the rate of fire is slow, especially the repeater. so focus on headshots, try to improve ur aim in the practice range, so that u can quickly delete enemies and waste less bullets

ik this sounds stupid since many ppl say this kinda thing especially with the "git gud" and stuff that gets spammed by ppl on shooter game communities.
but this is mostly how revolver and repeater work

[novel cliff]

sure will do thanks

[muted condor]

Console players do indeed aura farm when turning to face you

[sudden pewter]

The slow 3s rotation to face a threat

[young pewter]

Doesnt help that my sense is below 200

[spark zinc]

Should i use 1887 or revolver

[winter jay]

revo

[coarse slate]

Guys is it possible for the xp-54 diamond ruby or emerald to come again in the rewards ?

[normal ice]

hasn't happened yet. probably won't ever happen

FOMO is cool, eh?

[coarse slate]

Absolutely not, I started the game now in season 7

Diamond with 60 jours and already mad at the game for this

[normal ice]

I understand your pain

[plush harbor]

Maybe lmao. We shall see how badly embark can fuck over their committed players

I’m half expecting it at this point

[normal ice]

honestly it's a lose-lose situation for them because they made it in this dumbass system in the first place

If they just did like Overwatch and let you redeem skins of your choice from the getgo, there'd be no issue

Now, if they cater to new players by letting old skins be reobtainable, then you'll have old players complaining about their exclusives no longer being exclusive

[coarse slate]

Yeah like why couldnt we just hit rubis and chose the skin of our choice

Honestly grinding for a shak 50 isn’t interesting at all

[muted condor]

Lucky for me I think the ranked skins suck

[plush harbor]

Yeah they do

Can’t even make the scopes on the ruby guns silver. Like cmon bro how fucking lazy are you 😭 🙏

[muted condor]

Yeah ima grind hours of ranked just to get a basic ass texture with no animations or sounds

[chrome ocean]

Where can I see the reward skins for world tour?

[coarse slate]

You can on the xp

[coarse slate]

What skin for the xp has sound ?

[muted condor]

I don’t play light so no clue

Why would I ever want ranked skins when we got this shit

[coarse slate]

Because it’s exclusive

And u personally find them clean but not everyone think the same

[sudden pewter]

Objectively mid skins. I don’t feel ranked skins should be exclusive as they’re simply rewards for partaking in the ranked mode

Exclusivity for the sake of it is lame and cringe

We play ranked every season, it’s the exact same grind so the rewards should be the same. Give us tokens or some such that we can choose which weapons or gadgets to redeem them for

[royal pier]

It would be super neat if they gave us the kind of tools OW2 and other games have that allow players to modify a ton of aspects of the game.

For example, I'd like to be able to make my own classes with more limited loadouts based around what Specialization they have.

[sudden pewter]

For private matches right

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/291185557789343744/1133442719210033192/ezgif-2-3e88c53a56.gif

RIGHT

[winter jay]

Are you taking about stadium a completely separate mode or the perk thing

[royal pier]

Something that lets you make custom servers with completely unique rules.

I'd want to make each Specialization its own class. So for example, you could balance Winch around it being primarily for melee weapons and maybe the KS-23. Ideally, I'd even be able to do something like add a brief glitch effect on Winch so that the Dash build can't just zip away instantly. Or, I could add a slight delay between Dash uses.

[compact tundra]

Bro watching Cinemas actual meltdown was very funny

Also they've actually killed my baby, I thought sword was bad before but limiting a persons ability to aim in a fucking first person shooter is actual non-sense, they just coming up with anything to make sure this weapon becomes baby's first w+m1 with the optional ability to suicide by lunge

[wind lintel]

Bruh, they missed everyshot and got 800 upvotes
Aiming to the head with a shotgun both players couldn't land shots...

[runic skiff]

Usually I get them to 1 shot and then I start missing

[void ice]

I lost a 1v3 with bow because I got them all low but I whiffed 5 times back to back…

[plush harbor]

One scope. The one that sucks

[winter jay]

I scrolled too far to see someone say you just missed

[winter jay]

Oh like all the sliders and stuff. Yea idk if that’ll happen anytime soon

[royal pier]

I was surprised the comments didn't seem to bring that up. They're using it like the Repeater.

[placid slate]

Brudda thinks he's gonna headshot if he believes hard enough

[royal pier]

The 1887 is a good weapon for Heal Beam. Lets you do a nice chunk of damage in-between healing. Similar situation with Cerberus.

[sudden pewter]

Why is he ADSing with the model

It doesn’t have a hipfire penalty

[compact tundra]

@ionic badger
Big dog you can side step the weapon. And if I didn't aim before lunging then I wouldn't hit regardless, if I'm aiming the wrong way, I fly the wrong way. it's almost like the weapon requires aim

[wide onyx]

People ads with the model and wonder why they miss shots

I miss fighting the Model when it had its worst nerfs in s6 with pre nerf sledge. You literally couldn't lose against them. It was sad really.

[muted condor]

The number of weapons that have a pointless ads

[royal pier]

I'd rework H+ into something that has two syringe charges at a time. Have it deal a flat 50 HP and start the teammate's health regen. Make it more about getting them back into the fight fast than making them basically immortal for a time.

Tbf, the ADS on some things can be nice if you want it purely to lower sensitivity. Also, on controller you get the snap aim.

[magic lily]

FCAR - 2 more shots. That’s it. Please and thank you.

[ionic badger]

Bro you're complaining about not being able to aim, aiming is not missing the lunge and turning around to hit them like before. I agree that the amount they have it clamped to is too low tho.

[royal pier]

I'm torn between them making a sticky nade launcher for Light, and just making the MGL32 a sticky launcher.

I still just want minor improvements for MGL32, but if they're gonna rework it, the idea of Demoman sticky nade traps seems fun.

[compact tundra]

Aiming is the ability to press my joy stick left, and it actually turn left. As is, if I hold joy stick to the left my cross hair nudges left and then locks in place. You want to lower the sensitivity during lunge, fine, I get sweaty keyboard swords can be an issue when they 180 flick to hit you at the end of a lunge. But if you can simply strafe sideways and completely nullify the entire reason I play sword, that's utterly moronic. Not to mention fighting other dash lights. Here, how about you do this for me, play as a sword light with cross play on (meaning you play against PC players) and go fight a light, anything but dagger, or sword, You'll die, I guarantee you'll get your ass handed to you. Why, because they can hold the A key, turn their camera, and shoot you. This works on every class but light is the swords biggest counter, so it'll really show through there. Aiming in a FPS is vital, being able to move my camera in a FPS is fucking vital. That's not negotiable, it's literally what the genre is built upon. Sword being her-de-dur W+M1 is not why people play the weapon and it's fucking stupid.

[autumn dirge]

is the lh1 good or is it bad. they kept on nerfing and buffing it so I forgot

after messing around in training i think on paper its good but it gets clapped by medium repeater

[runic skiff]

Bro the rev man might feel worse cuz you hit all dem shots feel goated and then play like i have no arms

[tired bane]

Hi

[cyan bone]

@fleet imp I'm not sure that the lack of spread won't break the KS-23 projectile, man.
Without it, you won't have to aim with the right mouse button, and you won't be limited in your movements because every shot will fly along a perfect trajectory. Personally, I'm afraid that the gameplay will turn into Quake and jumping heavies will destroy everything in their path. Oh, and all the game feedback will consist of spam: NERF KS-23. OP as F)

[restive plover]

Embark Nerf the Riotshield and the Sword from light pls

[muted condor]

Embark strike this man down with a season one nuke and beat him with hammers

[plucky gust]

eclipse shade LH1 MK14 skin when?

[sudden pewter]

Eclipse Shade Minigun + Revolver

[plucky gust]

I'm gonna need the eclipse shade skin line to have an upgrade as well the comparison in quality from the model 1887 versus the shak is not on par and I don't mind paying more

[clever cloud]

Anyone know any meta light builds

[near scroll]

dash + automatic hitscan weapon + glitch nade + gateway + last is up to you but would reccommend h+ infuser, nullifier, vortex or goo nades

[ashen hawk]

• 10k aura when console bro turns around slowly for like 6 secs to stare at you with those console eyes

[ashen hawk]

Tbh dont go for the meta just bcz "its used a lot so must be good". Most stuff is good so u can play with that kinda thing.
but still, cuz u aked:

Weapon-- ARN, Xp54, 93r
Gadget-- Vanishing Bomb, Gateway, Breach Charge
Specialization-- Evasive Dash and Cloak

[iron ginkgo]

SPEAKK LOUDER MANNN
EMBARK TBH THE SWORD BUFF/NERF IS PRETTY FINE
AND THX FOR THESE MELE WEAPONS BUFFS💪🏿

[night bolt]

Hey guys, anyone know a good Flamethrower build? I tried with the goo gun but I can't really stop them like they do me so I'm using winch claw

[plucky spade]

Oh yeah that's going to push it over the edge for sure yeah man

[placid slate]

"melee buffs" and only riot and sword recieve any tangible changes, spear actively got a nerf this update

[shell sonnet]

are there differences for L M and H throws in cashball?

ive been playing mostly H and even if i line it up perfectly, the ball just seems to dip right before the goal
where when playing light is goes in easily

is this dash movement speed related since that makes it go faster/further?
or did they purposefully add handicaps to heavy so the throw distance doesnt become oppressive/force them to play more defensively?
or is it something completely different that im missing/confirmation bias?

[shell sonnet]

just noticed the goal lights up if an enemy is in it, is that it?

[shell sonnet]

nvm, nobody was in but still red, unless its like a lingering thing after someone leaves
does anybody have more info on it?

[fleet imp]

Having to deal with a projectile and spread is horrid game design

[lucid quiver]

Gotta agree this sword change does not feel like the way to go. As someone who has been using sword since season 1. This is the worst update for it. Playing ranked with sword is a hard task now. I would have rather them nerf the damaged again 😂 .

[cyan bone]

It's more like fairness in expressing skill when you use a shotgun correctly, and actually knowing its features (in the form of projectiles and spread) you get its full potential.
#heavy-build-main message
(Btw in this video there still wasn't any buffs of accuracy. Stock untouched ks-23)

[fleet imp]

I don’t have access to that channel gang

[cyan bone]

one sec

[cyan bone]

+200 ping server on mobile wifi 4g internet)

[fleet imp]

Idk dude removing spread would just make the weapon feel actually useable

Cuz like my shots going where I’m not pointing while I’m already dealing with a projectile is fucking stupid

[cyan bone]

it is what it is)
only hardcore
But right now actual hard part of using ks-23 was deleted from the game....

[cyan bone]

i dont know. Do u actually have fun right now with ks-23?

[fleet imp]

Lowkey I haven't played hitscan KS yet

[cyan bone]

go play it
i wonder how it will feels like for other players

I saw many people wanted to play ks-23 now after patch but still haven't seen any feedback from them

[sudden pewter]

Model had the alt skeleton ready to rock, not sure what the Shak could have without making it an entirely separate weapon

[near scroll]

nerf dash demat dwinch

the 3 great D's

[muted condor]

Nerf spec gang

[plucky gust]

For some eclipse shade they were clearly cutting corners by adding minimal things like flashlights batteries and ammo rack on the side rail and calling it a day the skin line clearly deserves more than just that idm them taking their time by giving custom models instead of putting random stuff on existing models

[sudden pewter]

The only other weapon with a unique skeleton I can think of is the Revolver with the fanning skin?

[plucky gust]

they did subtle changes for f-car why not for every gun? Idc how much time or if they have to bump the price up

[sudden pewter]

I’d absolutely love to see some more changes to Eclipse Shade skins too but I don’t see it happening, at least to those that already exist

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-carl-weathers-gif-5129663

[muted condor]

I’m not a fan of nerfing stuff but until specs are put in line we won’t get weapon buffs

[near scroll]

i don't get this anti-nerf mindset. nerfs in themselves are not inherently bad, a combination of both buffs and nerfs is what leads a game to good balance

every time someone reads "nerf" they think it means "absolutely gut the weapon out of viability and maybe kill its identity while we're at it" which embark has done, fair, but that's not what the word means when it's brought up in balance discussions 😭

[muted condor]

The problem is when devs only need things

Right now embark does a lot a nerfs on stuff instead of trying to bring other stuff up first

[runic skiff]

Isn’t that how shotguns work tho

Ugh wrong me

[slender bear]

Just imagine, light, but instead of a movement or stealth spec, you get a quad missile launcher with a 10 second reload. After a 20 second cooldown.

[dusk terrace]

That's a #👂┇game-feedback take

[slender bear]

I just want a new spec, its been a year and a half

[sudden pewter]

Monkeys Paw Curls
Reworked Cloak Spec

[slender bear]

That doesn't work here, the wording specified "new"

[sudden pewter]

It’s “new”in that it’s different from what it was. So says the Monkeys Curse.

[compact tundra]

Bro I almost exclusively play quick play on console and I hate the new change, that's how ass it is. I play quick cash and power shift and I think this shit is ass now, even the glue sniffers on console can hold there joystick to the left, turn, and fucking blast me. I used to play with cross play on but fuck that shit now. It's just AR's and SMG's camping on roofs and my screen gets locked if i try to fight them. I've been playing since the beta, and been maining sword since it's release, and this feels like the most unfinished state it's ever been in, even worse than when they killed the lunge the first time.

[dusk terrace]

I just realised that bro minigun has so few skins compared to the ARN and ESPECIALLY the repeater😭😭 give my boi something juicy pls

[dusk terrace]

They do not listen to the right part of community like the vast majority of sword players say that they should just remove multihit and revert sword to it's past state🙏🙏

[slender bear]

Feels better to me because I never used multihit anyways, but yeah they didn't have to add the clamp, they could've just removed multihit entirely.

[compact tundra]

Bro they also made mini-gun so much less fun for me. I have my aim and alt fire binded differently and they moved the rev up from alt fire to the aim about a season after adding it, and it to me makes no sense and just makes the gun a bit less fun. Like the rev being the alt fire mad sense, it's an alternative fire mode, but noooo, we gotta specifically tie it to aiming so people have to lower their pov to prepare for a fight, you can still jump rev but God forbid I be able to see the little rat cloak light running up on my 6 with a DB fully prepared to booty fuck me.

[sudden pewter]

Wish Granted: ARN gets another 5 skins and Minigun gets 1

[compact tundra]

To be fair I do have 1 sick ass clip with the multi hit, I agree just remove it and revert sword, but I would be lying if I didn't think the ability to punish gaggle fucking teams wasn't fun

[slender bear]

On the bright side, sword's movement is kind of crazy with just lunge jumps now. If you properly lunge jump, b-hop, and charge another lunge while b-hopping you go nearly as fast as you used to be able to with superdashes.
Not to mention the fact that the m1 buff has brought ttk even lower than it was back when we had the 140 damage lunge.

[compact tundra]

For context I call a proper lunge jump a super lunge, and the weird dash thing a super dash

Yea I like the new easier super lunges, it makes my rollouts immaculate, but then I just get my butthole licked when I actually get where I'm going.

[slender bear]

Tbf the rotation clamping doesn't actually affect you if you only use the m1 in fights, which has higher dps and faster kills anyways. Overall it's just easier now if you adapt a little.

[compact tundra]

But that kills the whole reason sword was fun, if I wanna play W+M1, I'll play flamethrower (which is like my second favorite weapon). But I play sword for the fast paced, sick combos. It feels like playing melee in an fps and it's so sick, and now it's not.

[placid slate]

They do both mfs just ignore the buffs

[slender bear]

Yeah, but most of the community plays sword for movement and consistent dps.
They've done nothing here but give us more movement and raised the amount of consistent dps we can deal.

[compact tundra]

I would not say it's most the community, there are certainly a lot of players who play sword for that reason, but it is not the majority from my experience. Cause most those players just end up moving to dash DB or matter. The core sword community cares a lot more about how the weapon feels rather than just spamming M1

[compact tundra]

Every other light weapon can deal tons of damage and you still have good movement, the sword was a unique combo weapon with amazing movement. Now it's M1 spam with an ok positioning tool

[slender bear]

Why would somebody who wants consistent dps switch to DB? That would just be less consistent lol
Literally the main selling point behind sword since S1 was that it plays like dagger but with free movement and more consistent dps.

That's literally been the whole point of the weapon for a while now, and that's what the community has known it for.

[compact tundra]

Bruh that is not swords selling point, very view sword mains would even compare it to the dagger. And DB absolutely has much more consistent damage given you can aim. It deletes everyone in just 2 shots. And if you can't aim that we'll use the matter, now it 3 shots everyone but you have wiggle room to miss. The sword community has always praised it's combos and unique play style. If we just wanted more consistent damage we'd run the M11 or V95, sword is a Melee weapon so it loses most interactions unless you know what you're doing. Maybe people who don't play sword see it that way, but they don't play sword, so how would they know why we play it.

[slender bear]

The feel of the weapon is important, but they're clearly focusing on their base values for it first, which is fair imo

[compact tundra]

The feel was the base value, that's why sword mains play it. Not so they can just run at people swing it over and over.

[slender bear]

It literally wasn't it was consistency and lunge movement.
Realistically you should still be using the lunge as an opener anyways, which is exactly how it used to be anyways. Now you just have to keep enemies on your screen when you combo them.

[compact tundra]

You mean like a combo

[slender bear]

I think you're confusing your values for the community's.

[compact tundra]

Start with lunge, then combo with a secondary attack. Like it's a combo weapon

[wind lintel]

sword plays like dagger?

[slender bear]

Nope, it's more consistent and it has lunge movement built in.
Dagger is all about stealth and backstabs.

[compact tundra]

Go watch sword youtubers, they all say the same thing, the combos are what's fun. Go watch old sir yellow jacket videos or older topi prime videos. They all play and talk about the same combo play style. It was the swords identity

[compact tundra]

Then why are you comparing them. They are not similar, they play completely differently

[slender bear]

Tunnel vision much?
In what way is it not a melee weapon? That's the point, they're both cqc weapons.

[compact tundra]

That doesn't make them comparable. The sword is more comparable to the sledge hammer than the dagger

[slender bear]

I'm just going off of the 20+ people from the light server talking about it's consistency and and movement.
Those are the defining traits, and the devs are clearly not hesitant to change the weapons combos.

[slender bear]

In what world? It's closer to dagger in dps, charge time, movement and playstyle. Just because it isn't as stealthy as dagger doesn't mean you play like a heavy whenever you pick up sword lol

Sledge is reliant on winch and goo gun, two things that neither dagger nor sword use at all, because they can't.

And I quote, from the finals wiki:

[compact tundra]

Bro most people in the light server could tell you their favorite crayon flavor and glue smell.

And listening to just any light on sword is a terrible idea, lights hated the sword because most of the time if the sword can kill you it's cause there cracked with the sword, and if there cracked them there gonna stomp you. The sword has always been divisive for lights cause they hate when what should be an inferior weapon bends them over and teaches them the meaning of women-hood. Also charge and sledge actually plays somewhat similar to sword. But I didn't say sledge and sword were comparable, I was saying even sledge is a better comparison than dagger

[slender bear]

"The sword is a light class melee weapon designed to deal sustained contact damage and engage opponents with its unique lunge ability."
A.K.A it's consistent dps and lunge mobility.

[slender bear]

You said you play sword, opinion discarded.

[compact tundra]

Yea the wiki mains sword. and duh the wiki says that, the sword did get good movement and consistent damage, I'm not arguing it didn't. But the wiki isn't exactly a great place for learning about why mains play a weapon. It tells you the basic facts of the weapon, not the intricacies in which people use to enjoy the weapon.

[slender bear]

I will not longer be accepting opinions from light players who use sword.

[compact tundra]

Genius I mean the light server is notoriously brain rotted and toxic, don't trust those guys for balance ideas or a detailed understanding on a complex weapon

I've mained light since beta and I just chill in the heavy server cause at least they are the funny kind of glue huffers

[slender bear]

It's kinda crazy to say "listening to any light on sword is a terrible idea" when you were citing yellowjacket earlier.

[compact tundra]

Bro lights in the light server

[slender bear]

You're shifting the goalposts

[compact tundra]

Most lights are toxic as shit and don't care about balance, they care about being able to 20 bomb every game

[compact tundra]

The fuck, did you take the fucking Ben Shapiro arguing 101. It's not goal post shifting, we were specifically talking about the light server. And also I don't mean any light as in every light, I meant it in the colloquial term. As in "don't trust just any one".

[slender bear]

Either way, regardless of whether the wiki can tell me how sword mains feel, It does very clearly tell me what it is "designed for" and I'm fine with the devs continuing to follow their design philosophy when it comes to sword.

Or ig the quote was "designed to"

[placid slate]

Fentanyl

[slender bear]

Femtanyl

[spark zinc]

Model 1887 or revolver

[placid slate]

Personal preference

[spark zinc]

Ok

[compact tundra]

Things change, when players actually played the sword, they found the combos and movement far more compelling than just high DPS and consistency. The sword is a niche weapon with a niche community, and they like it's combo play style. If this logic follows the game would not be where it is now. The defibs were initially designed to be able to keep them team up until they realized that's toxic as hell and made the game less fun, by your logic revert to season 1 defibs. The heal beam was designed to keep your teammates in the fight longer and to prolong your teams health, now it's a post fight heal item that helps you prepare for the eventual 3rd party, by your logic revert to season 1 heal beam. The rpg was initially designed to be a light deleting tool and a destruction tool, by your logic being back the 1 shots in light. The game changes, and so do the design directions of items and weapons. No one wants triple medium meta back and for good reason, it's unfun and made the game stale and boring. Having medium be so support focused meant stacking them was super viable and almost broken.

[slender bear]

Things change, but when a weapon is designed for consistency and lunge mobility, and a year and a half later they are still prioritizing consistent dps and lunge mobility in their balancing, it doesn't sound like that much changed.
Also, following a design philosophy does not equate to reverting everything to their state at launch, it means preserving their core values, which was fast revives for defib, something it still has.

[compact tundra]

Hell you may not know this but in the beta fire spread, and the beta flame thrower was probably one of the most broken weapons the game has ever seen. They removed that shit real quick even tho that was it's design intention. You know why, cause a heavy being able to set and entire room on fire was toxic as hell. The design intention changed and we were better for it

[slender bear]

Except fire still spreads, as they intended it to in the beta, and flamethrower is still a flamethrower.
You're confusing balancing with the removal of a mechanic or weapon's core values.

Again.

[compact tundra]

Prioritizing what makes sword fun doesn't nullify the consistent damage and movement, it just means going in a specific direction to accomplish those things. Your acting as if the combos were weak as shit and that keeping it combo focused would ruin its movement and consistent damage, it wont. It just means the viable play style isn't just swinging your primary fire until someone goes down.

[slender bear]

I didn't say that combos would ruin it's consistency or movement, I said that I thought it was fair to preserve those as they buff the weapon, with combos as a second priority.

I still think they should just remove multihit and the clamp.

[compact tundra]

Fire does not spread like in the beta, it used to spread on everything. Imagine throwing a pyro made in a room and in about a minute the whole room is on fire. And what I was saying is flamethrower used to basically be a napalm thrower as that shit would stick to the ground and spread through the room. It's a very different weapon now. And removal of mechanics or core weapon values is balance. That's a type of balancing, and I view the gutting of the lunge as we know it as mechanic removal, every other sword patch was based around the combos including the previous nerf, so trying to pretend that that's not what they balance around is just wrong. you're trying to point out flaws in my argument that don't exist.

Again.

[slender bear]

Except that this doesn't change the fact that their most recent sword patch was very clearly buffing the dps and movement and actively weakening the combos, so it still stand to reason that they might, just a little, be focusing on the things they BUFFED instead of prioritizing the things they nerfed. You can pretend that isn't a flaw in your argument all you want, that's what the devs did and you just have to deal with it.
As for flamethrower, limiting what fire can spread to isn't the same as removing a mechanic, instead they made it so it would only spread to things that were reasonably flammable, like foliage.
It's also worth noting, 6.0's patch was and 7.6's were the ONLY ones that affected breakpoint combos, and 7.6's only did so as a side effect of raising overall consistent dps output. They've made more changes to dps and lunge mobility than combos by far.

An argument could also be made that 6.0 was also balancing sword's consistent dps, but I digress.
It affected breakpoints more than anything.

[rotund musk]

Guys with high rank can sm1 say actual light loadout

[spark zinc]

Bro is there any med gadget to counter heavy

[compact tundra]

That's the problem, if you only focus on blanket DPS and movement then you miss what made sword it's own weapon. No word main wants a good M1 dps with the lunge being reworked to just be a positioning tool, that's why the previous nerf made so many sword mains quit, and why this 'Buff' is making the rest quit. They had a holy unique weapon concept and have completely gutted what made it so unique and fun. If you just wanna roll out with lunge jump, and then dash + M1 spam your way to winning, by all mean go ahead, and it wasn't even that bad on the previous version, was certainly less viable then combos, but 74 damage isn't anything to scoff at. And what exactly did they buff, literally just the M1. The lunge is still weaker than pre nerf so tho it was technically buffed that buff is only returning like half the damage that was taken away. While for the first time ever, the sword now 2 shots lights on swing. Which is just so much more boring if a way to play them the fast paced and fun combos of the old sword. And now to use your tactics against you, you're nwingoal shifting, you pointed out that I was "Confusing balancing with the removal of a mechanic or weapon's core values. Again.". I pointed out that "you're trying to point out flaws in my argument that don't exist. Again.". Because removing mechanics and weapons core values is balance, those are certainly types of balance. Now your claiming that for some reason I was talking about the fact that they bugged swords DPS, I never said that swords DPS wasn't buffed, it's just buffed in such a good awful and unfun way. First, weather intentionally or not, you misrepresented what I said and claimed

"It's kinda crazy to say "listening to any light on sword is a terrible idea" when you were citing yellowjacket earlier."
My exact words were
"listening to just any light on sowrd is a terrible idea"
if you speak native English you'll understand those are 2 very different sayings. This was also stated in a message directly talking about the light lounge server. when I tried to explain i was referring to the light server you called it goal shifting even tho your initial callout was made by either ignoring or not understanding how "just any" is used colloquialy. By saying "you're trying to point out flaws in my argument that don't exist. Again.", I'm saying you for some reason keep trying.to argue with me like we're on a Jordan Peterson talk show, this is a discussion of video games balance decisions, not a political debate where we're both trying to play a gotcha moment for brownie points. Argue my actual statements and stop trying to poorly pick apart my argument using misunderstandings and political talk show methods.

To me it is, the way fire used to spread is so much more different than what it used to be that it is actually a different mechanic. And dry wall burns, wood burns. By the "reasonably flammable" method every building in Kyoto should be a bonfire waiting to happen, but it's not because thats unfun and they removed building fire sorrad because it sucked to play against.

[spark zinc]

Bro we need counters with med

[compact tundra]

Movement is apart of the combos, almost all previous patches were focused on the lunges movement, which if you remember the old nerf than you remember it completely neutered the swords lunge, were they following the design philosophy of good movement + high and consistent DPS then. No, they have never had a clear direction for where they want sword and they've used this to make it into a guinea pig weapon now. And nerfing lunge absolutely kills combos, cause you have to be able to reach the enemy to combo them. Nerfing the opening tool of the combo kills the combo. All combos start with a lunge, so when they ruined its movement, they ruined the combos. Funnily enough nerfing the lunge doesn't effect your ability to dash and press M1. Yea you cant postion with the lunge then, but if your just swinging the sword then using the lunge in combat or more of a hindrance than a benefit. Which is why any time you see a M1 spamming sowed they just dash and almost never use the lunge, because why would you linge and then swing, just hit the combo at that point. The combos are tied consistent DPS and movement. But they have somehow found a way to technically keep the dogs and movement up without letting us enjoy what actually makes sword fun. It's a stupid direction to take the weapon and that's why sword players are quitting, what they liked was removed but the devs can still claim the weapon is "good". Can you imagine if they nerfed the shit out of the backstab but buffed the M1 on dagger, do you think daggers would still enjoy the weapon, just dashing at poeple and spamming them with M1. No, the weapon might technically still be good but the fun part was gutted. People don't play Melee cause it has good dps, that's just what makes it playable and not ass, they play it cause it's fun and unique.

[oblique crypt]

What's with the paragraphs today?

[slender bear]

There's no way you just said that
"listening to any light on sword is a terrible idea"
and
"listening to any light on sword is a terrible idea"
are entirely different sentences lol

[compact tundra]

Listening to just any light

Again adding that just is important you keep misreading it

[slender bear]

I pointed out that the wiki specifically states that sword is "designed to deal sustained contact damage and to engage opponents with it's unique lunge ability" and that I think embark should continue to prioritize those core values, as they have been with recent patches.
He believes they should change those priorities to focus on combos instead.

[spark zinc]

Pls anyone tell me

[compact tundra]

I have stated multiple times having good movement, and good & consistent dps is vital for the combo style to work

They are directly tied

[slender bear]

I think it's worth noting that "fun" is entirely subjective, and most people play light for the movement. In buffing sword's movement they have made it more "fun" for plenty of people.
The weapon is changing, of course not all old sword players like it, but they're buffing the aspects of it's design that align most with light's playstyle, and it's still lost nothing in terms of combos if you just, I don't know, looked at someone when you lunged.

[spark zinc]

Bro does med have anything to counter heavy

[slender bear]

And I've already stated that there's nothing wrong with combos, but I think they're going in the right direction by buffing the dps and movement.

New sword is more fun for anyone who isn't spamming m2 anyways, you should only really be using it once in a fight as an opener.

Unless you're specifically using sword to abuse the multihit, in which case you can cry about it.

If you can't look at somebody for a second before lunging when you start a fight that's just a skill issue.

You're playing a melee weapon, you should be jumping opponents, so it's not like they'll be dodging you anyways.

[spark zinc]

Bro model 1887 is so wierd

[compact tundra]

And they killed the swords ability to combo, locking my screen in a fucking fps is crazy work. Lower the sensitivity during lunge if need be. But locking my God damn screen in an fps is ridiculous.
Never defended the multi hit just said I got a funny clip with it.
We don't spam M2, we combo with it. All you want to do is lunge once and then click M1 until they die. I lunge, Melee, and swing in different combinations to fit different scenarios.

Dash lights are swords biggest counter because they can dodge you.

[spark zinc]

Bro 1887 is soo bad bro

[slender bear]

You keep saying that you combo with it, but rn it two taps medium with a qm, what combos are you hitting?
If you ever need to throw out two lunges, it's against a heavy, and they aren't dodging you anyways.
As an opener, it's still completely usable against light, medium, and heavy, and if you're using more than once against light or medium you're just spamming, I hate to tell you.
Using the same move repeatedly until someone can be killed with a qm is still spam.
Against medium your "combos" should be something like m2 qm m1 m1 or m1 qm m1 qm.
Against light you're just pressing m1 twice or m2 m1
Heavy is the only class where you can constitute 2 m2 uses as a "combo", because it has enough health that two rounds of burst damage can be necessary.

[spark zinc]

Bro literally in all shooting games i played its only this one i feel as if my shots go through people

[slender bear]

Ranged shotguns can be weird sometimes, in general it's one of the better medium weapons imo

[spark zinc]

No litterally every weapon

Revolver 1887 etc and I play games with and hit reg like siege and this game still somehow tops that hit reg

What is that one thing that as soon as you shoot it connects?

[trail egret]

What are everyone's thoughts on medium revolver frag zipline and defib?

[spark zinc]

Bro if this game had that then it just horrible hit reg

[slender bear]

Mb, you can actually throw out m2 qm m1 qm for a faster and more fluid kill on medium anyways.
And for a real combo against heavy you can use m2 qm m1 qm m1

[spark zinc]

Like I have heavy’s blitzing me and lights running around my screen what do I do

With revolver pike and 1887 my shots just go through people

[compact tundra]

Yes that's the point, I actually like the lower lungs damage it makes the combos more fun. Most swords want it reverted to 140 but I actually like that we have to melee mediums.

[spark zinc]

Nvm I think problem was my snes

But med needs a gadget that can counter heavy’s like a stun

Or stim

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/714245295659024397/1251977229378781275/Card.gif

[spark zinc]

Ok so a heavy pushes what can a med do

[spark zinc]

Look at what I said

@sudden pewter

Med literally cant escape or counter heavy

[sudden pewter]

Hitreg is an ongoing issue, since the launch of S7 it’s gotten significantly worse. However that should never be a consideration for balance.

Lights stun gun was reworked due to how bad it was for the games health and how unfun it was to fight against.

[spark zinc]

Ik the hit reg sucked

[sudden pewter]

Mediums have a cornucopia of options available to them in how they handle engagements, if you’re constantly getting bagged by Heavies it’s a skill issue.

Revolver in particular is fantastic at popping the grapes of the biggest & slowest archetype

[spark zinc]

Revolver doesn’t do much dmg then they kill u

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

[spark zinc]

Bro ur saying it’s a skill issue but still didn’t say what a med can do @sudden pewter

[spark zinc]

Bro still waiting for u to give a way

[sudden pewter]

Use goo to block LoS avenues of chase. Use rat holes to disengage. Use demat to engage from odd angles. Use one of your two exclusive mobility tools to make space/keep space. Play with your team

There’s an infinite variety of options available to you, your negligence of them speaks volumes

[spark zinc]

Ratholes?

I use zipline and demat and goo grenade takes too long in that time they already killed me

[sudden pewter]

There’s small vents you can break on all of the maps that are only accessible to Lights and Mediums

Unless the Heavy is willing to spend a gadget or use C&S to give chase it’s a free escape

[sudden pewter]

Are you using them during an engagement? Or to enter an engagement?

[spark zinc]

Bro those ratholes barely come

[spark zinc]

For zip to enter for demat both and for goo during

[sudden pewter]

Use Zipline for a quick traversal or to get high-ground before fighting

Demat is much more flexible but if you’re pulling it out when you’ve already lost the engagement you’re already doomed anyhow

[spark zinc]

Bro the ttk is hella fast for them they should just give med a actually good and cool gadget like they do light and heavy

[spark zinc]

I use zip before fighting and demat I use to run and to enter and for various reason

[sudden pewter]

I’m not about to make assumptions about your skill level(at least not unironically) but I genuinely think you may be suffering from a positioning issue

Saying “I play medium and don’t find killing Heavies hard” doesn’t help either of us so instead let’s talk about how you’re entering engagements and what you’re doing during them

I mainly use FCAR/Revolver on my two medium loadouts because one is a high burst skill cannon and the other is a very reliable flexible options applicable to most fights

What do you often use?

[normal ice]

Pretty sure Revolver literally has the fastest TTK against Heavy (except Dagger)...

Or if not the fastest, it's pretty close

[spark zinc]

Yea icl it’s probably that

[spark zinc]

Yea imma stop using 1887 it seems like it sucks

[normal ice]

Unfortunately, yes lol

[spark zinc]

Repeater and three shot should I use it

[normal ice]

Repeater and FAMAS are both viable, yes

[spark zinc]

Yo this hit reg so ahh

[sudden pewter]

1887 absolutely fucks but you have to be in the perfect range, fully loaded, and pray the servers don’t no-reg

If you’re caught out while reloading you’re basically already dead.

[spark zinc]

Lol

[sudden pewter]

I love the weapon dearly but it’s in a rather poor state

[winter jay]

Don’t forget crazy accurate so you hit all the pellets

Or just run repeater and shoot a medium 3 times in the leg from 75m away

[sudden pewter]

The spread is relatively decent for a “shotgun” but yeah

I’m partial to the revolver moreso than the repeater but it’s definitely preference

[spark zinc]

Yea I think repeater is best med weapon

[normal ice]

I wouldn't say Repeater is the best. It just has a lower skill floor. Revolver outputs damage a lot quicker when you're practiced with it

[spark zinc]

From using its easier to kill then revolver

[sudden pewter]

If you miss a single shot with the repeater your TTK goes down the toilet

[spark zinc]

Oh so should I use revolver?

[winter jay]

Pike is better repeater is just more fun

[normal ice]

Pike, too, yeah

[spark zinc]

Bro pike is buns to me

[sudden pewter]

You can put irons on the pike but you’re making it more difficult to use it’s best trait: Range

[spark zinc]

Imma use repeater I like it best

[sudden pewter]

It’s got a learning curve but if you can master it, the weapon is insane

[winter jay]

It’s peak

[normal ice]

If you're considering grinding to Ruby or something, only then would I suggest maximizing your suffering by only playing the highest skill floor, highest rewarding weapons like Revolver or Pike. But if not, Repeater is perfectly fine for WT

[winter jay]

Pretty much all I use on medium save for the occasional revolver/cl game

[sudden pewter]

No FCAR? 🥺

https://tenor.com/view/miserable-crying-sad-tears-black-guy-gif-12326280655494835815

[winter jay]

I cant the recoil is too much. Plus I am completely dogshit with all tracking weapons

[normal ice]

I dunno about the ARs that much. I think FCAR is the best Medium AR rn. I hate full-auto gameplay lol

[grand turtle]

Repeater would need 2x headshot damage to make it appealing to use.
It shoots slow, missing a target usually means death, hipfire is rng and whats the benefit?
I see none as there is always a gun that does it better

[spark zinc]

Ok I’ll use revolver

[sudden pewter]

The recoil takes some getting used too but it’s a head popper once you learn to rein it in. Definitely prefer it to the AKM

[sudden pewter]

I suggest playing some TDM to better acquaint yourself with weapons you aren’t too familiar with since you’ll be able to fight with it more.

[spark zinc]

I usually play quick cash

What do I do about light mains tho they just dash around my screen and have crazy dmg

[sudden pewter]

Play with team 🙂

If you have Goo you can also force them into certain paths if they want to engage

[normal ice]

Just gotta shoot them first. You can make tricky use of mines or Gltich Traps to help

[spark zinc]

Ok

[sudden pewter]

Or, if you’re trying to get a bit spicy you can base your shots off of the short periods between dashes

[spark zinc]

Oh yeah glitch ooo

[normal ice]

don't tell Embark, but Explosive Mine near a Fire Barrel instantly kills Lights 🔥 🔥 🔥

[sudden pewter]

Glitch Mines are absolutely a dash lights kryptonite though. I suggest putting them on ceilings whenever possible both to be less visible and to be less likely to be destroyed

[placid slate]

Me when 2 bombs do more damage than 1 🤯

[spark zinc]

Ok

Imma use demat revolver zip breach and glitch

And yall think they should buff heal beam?

[placid slate]

Little bit, more charge, heal amount per second is fine

[swift cradle]

Any combination of explosives makes a lights life much harder... it's a wonderful experience

[spark zinc]

I think lights Heal gun is better bc it’s faster

[placid slate]

That's why we add more charge, sustain vs burst

[spark zinc]

Ohh

[sudden pewter]

Absolutely. Either that or nerf/rework the H+

[spark zinc]

Bro they need to give glitch bomb to med glitch trap range way too short

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/no-nope-cat-cute-gif-4544032

[spark zinc]

Brooo glitch trap hella short

[sudden pewter]

Yes, it’s a form of mine

It’s defensive moreso than offensive. You can prematurely place it and bait enemies into it

[placid slate]

Miserable idea

[spark zinc]

Nuh uh

How else would I stop lights from dashing across my screeen

[placid slate]

Glitch trap

[spark zinc]

Range too short and takes time to activate

[muted condor]

Glitch trap is goated

One of the best medium gadgets

[spark zinc]

It sucks

[spark zinc]

Ofc med gadgets kinda trash COMPARED to the others

[muted condor]

What

[spark zinc]

The range too short

[muted condor]

Zip, jump pad, glitch trap, and defib are all really good

[sudden pewter]

Again, this seems like a positioning issue

[spark zinc]

Zip and jump? And they can just camp defib

[muted condor]

Any bigger and it would be completely broke

[spark zinc]

I mean the other classes have broken items too

[muted condor]

It’s not supposed to stop everyone in a room at once

[spark zinc]

Bruh I solo q and my team usually tries to get kills or hit reg just fails me

[muted condor]

That’s the worst take I have ever seen

[spark zinc]

I expect it to stop one person but it can do that

[muted condor]

It does

[spark zinc]

No it doesn’t they can just easily walk out the range

[muted condor]

It absolutely folds lights and fucks heavies over

[spark zinc]

Well if they had brains they would just shoot and kill u or walk out

[muted condor]

No shit, what do you want it to instantly stun all enemies that touch it

[sudden pewter]

Same? 90% of my playtime is solo

[spark zinc]

Not stun but just have better range

[muted condor]

It’s literally one of the best gadgets in the game

[spark zinc]

Bro wym for me they either just walk out or kill me

[sudden pewter]

If you’re aiming to play aggressively I’d suggest playing Light at this point

[spark zinc]

The kill me can be a skill issue but they do just walk out

[sudden pewter]

You have weapons with better TTK, mobility options to escape, and the beloved Glitch Nade

[spark zinc]

Eh I don’t like it I like med the best

Too much lights too so yeah

[muted condor]

Where are you placing you mines at?

Its already able to cover entire rooms

Won’t cover entire building floors but it can hold down a cash room

[sudden pewter]

Better be ceilings ong

Maybe a wall if you’re trying to hold a particular angle

[spark zinc]

It cannot

Bro I place it near a super tight and small hallway and he
Just walked out

[spark zinc]

It def cannot

[muted condor]

You’re just objectively wrong man

I don’t know what else to say

I play duel blades so I basically have to bring glitch trap every round

[silk cargo]

@normal ice The invis bomb is great unless you're shit at the game, like i said to the other guy i recommend just using sledge until you're better, hope this helps!

[spark zinc]

Im lit not I watched how short the range is wit my own eyes

[sudden pewter]

I love the invis bomb

The visual noise from the bomb will often cover tracks or make it difficult to see me

[normal ice]

Great job, you made no argument at all for 2 messages in a row. You're a dork.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856827759179071488/1334268093089845360/attachment-6-1.gif

[spark zinc]

Bro u can say anything is good and when someone disagree just say skill issue

[formal fern]

Is the taser replacement thingy any good? How does one implement this thing

[normal ice]

It's good if you can't ever catch the enemy team separated, because then it allows you a brief window of opportunity to do a 3v2. You can also use it for escapes or for stopping cashout steals. It is indeed tricky to use and can screw you over

[formal fern]

Do you know the exact nullify time?

[sudden pewter]

Isn’t it 6s?

Not even close: 3.75s

[wind lintel]

Thoughts? I was wondering why my aim was better

[sudden pewter]

Just say no vignette good

Objectively correct

[lyric jackal]

bro are you trolling? 'you're bad, thats why invis is good'. as a dagger player, I know just how little vanish bomb contributes to stealth. all it does is help you run away. when other lights run invis or vanish bomb, they are the first people i notice, because it's so loud. I when I play power shift, I sometimes just watch enemy lights run around thinking no one notices them. do you have a hard time fighting invis lights?

[silk cargo]

No but dumb players have a very hard time fighting me and thats what makes it fun

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856827759179071488/1334268093089845360/attachment-6-1.gif

[lyric jackal]

so are they dumb for picking invis or are you saying im dumb for even trying to reason with you

[silk cargo]

damn this is like trying to explain rocket science to a guy who drinks the juice from the bottom of garbage bags

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182329984723976283/1376284856413192354/attachment-2.gif

[lyric jackal]

which part is rocket science: why invis lights are dumb, or why vanish bomb is good?

[silk cargo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182329984723976283/1263302801933729822/ezgif.com-gif-maker2.gif

[lyric jackal]

anything else? you've called me (and some other guy) stupid like 5 times.

[silver mortar]

what if Invis was reworked to be actually invisible, but it plays the MetalPipes.wav for every foot step

[sudden pewter]

I don’t think full invisibility is wise as all that does is remove any possible counterplay

Perhaps full invisibility when stationary?
IMO the problem is invisibility seemingly being different due to graphical settings so perhaps some method of standardization is called for

[lyric jackal]

I was thinking like sombra where they can see you (or your shimmer) if you get very close, but you are invisible if you keep your distance

So then melee players can close the distance, and ranged players can reposition

But I would totally settle for a big noise reduction. Then they won't know whether you're close or far, and they actually have to be on the lookout, instead of hearing you a house away

[normal ice]

The counterplay is just reacting quickly or shooting where you think they may be. Spy and indeed Sombra both exemplify different ways to make invis effective but fair

[muted condor]

You should be very scared of anyone who drinks the trash juice and definitely not argue with them

[normal ice]

IMO I would give it a 0.2s decloak time before shooting and make you take x2 or so damage from the first thing you're hit by if you get hit while invis

[wind lintel]

75 effective health woohoo
bro that take is horrible 💀

[normal ice]

Only for one hit

I mean, other tweaks are possible, too

Could just leave it at a decloak time. Could give a damage penalty to the invis user for like 1s when leaving invis

[silk cargo]

Im going to aggressively take your cheeks and there isnt a single thing you can do about it

[lyric jackal]

:(

[silk cargo]

https://tenor.com/view/hd-smirk-gif-7206957141966421326

[lyric jackal]

:(((((

[sudden pewter]

Spy has a decloak before any actions can be taken and I haven’t play OW since the original launch so idk

My qualm with perfect invisibility is that Light has some of the best TTK’s in the game

[normal ice]

Yes. I'm suggesting that if Cloak and Vanish Bomb gave perfect invis, it would need nerfs in other ways... like a decloak time

[wind lintel]

But why should it be changed from what it is rn

[sudden pewter]

Because it’s inconsistent

Mind I don’t have any issues with it right now. But some players say it’s “useless” and I have no reason to disbelieve them, discrepancies in video and graphics settings indeed can make a difference in the effectiveness of cloak

[normal ice]

Because the current fake invis:

1. Can never be truly relied on, because technically you can still always be seen
2. Is an accessibility issue
3. Primarily just works against noobs who aren't so used to how it or the game looks like

[wind lintel]

Cloak has so many factors that contribute to it's effectiveness (that you can't really control)
are they standing behind fire?
are they standing in a dark place?
are they standing in a place with a lot of light sources?
does the enemy have sound?
how good is the enemy at discerning glimmer?

[sudden pewter]

Too many players treat it as a true invisibility and rush enemies then get angry when they die “because they were invisible”

[lyric jackal]

I think a decloak would work. It would prevent free kills, while still allowing for actually good invis

[sudden pewter]

Even renaming it to something like “fade” would be alright

[normal ice]

The last part is the issue. "How good is the enemy at using their eyeballs?" should, IMHO, never, EVER be a balancing factor

[wind lintel]

I think it should, it's a competitive shooter
mainly, true invis seems op without giving it a decently big drawback which could make it unfun to play

[normal ice]

I'm not saying the game needs a high contrast mode and TTS for onscreen actions, but purposely going out of the way to make hard-to-see shit is neither fun nor fair

[sudden pewter]

Yeah but a gadget or spec shouldn’t ideally be balanced by “are the people you’re using this against idiots”

[wind lintel]

turret kinda works this way

[sudden pewter]

Not going to disagree but it’s a bit more nuanced as the sentry has other tells

[normal ice]

The thing is that the current fake invis works best against the non-competitive players

[sudden pewter]

The sentry also doesn’t change in effectiveness based on graphics settings

[wind lintel]

I do know that turning anti aliasing makes cloak easier to see(?) but it makes everything look baked so I don't use it

[sudden pewter]

I keep bringing up graphical fidelity but keep in mind I’m pulling it out of my ass because I’ve only ever ran max settings. I could totally be wrong so feel free to correct me

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/437863525965365249/1399490368285835475/mauzy.carrd.co_watermark_dupecut_20fps.gif

[normal ice]

Competitive players are going to train their eyeballs to recognize the dumb shimmering effect every day to the point where they can spot even standstill targets. Casual newcomers are not gonna be able to recognize it all and just get stomped for free by it

[normal ice]

No, you're right. Higher res makes invis easier to see. Anti aliasing turned off, too

[wind lintel]

the people you're describing would get stomped by anything else too though, I mean, they're newcomers.

[sudden pewter]

So true bestie 💅

I’m also of the 🚨 personal opinion 🚨 Newbies should actually be stomped to filter out the chaff. If someone can’t learn from their betters the chances are they won’t stick around anyway

[normal ice]

But a newcomer can recognize that a shotgun is best in close range -- or a shield has to be waited out -- or a sniper has to be flanked. They can learn the strategies and practice their aim. And no matter how much they learn or practice, these tools will still have use for or against them.

What is there to learn or practice about fake invis? "Just see better" until the fake invis becomes completely useless?

[sudden pewter]

I see two avenues for the cloak, a decloak or audio cues

If anyone is familiar with DirtyBomb I feel the third Phantom rework had a very good balance between utility and actual cloak

[wind lintel]

round 1 hears glimmer -> monkey brain does not know what it is and dies
round 2 hear glimmer -> monkey brain does not see it but is alert, when monkey dies, they see enemy become invisible again and notice what glimmer looks like
round 3 hear glimmer -> monkey brain tries to look at chokepoints and entry ways to find glimmer, monkey see and monkey kills

[normal ice]

I don't know what you're trying to argue here. Yes, anyone can learn what the fake invis looks like and can learn to recognize it better and better with playtime. But like I said, that's not really training your strategymaking or hand precision

And again, it gets to a point where the fake invis is useless. No matter how perfect your aim or strategymaking is, there is a little nuance for running different classes and different guns. When everyone sees clearly, there's 0 room for fake invis

[sudden pewter]

It only takes so long for monke to join the discord and post garbage in #👂┇game-feedback

I can see how true invis would cause frustration but is that better than the frustration caused by fake invisibility

I think a compromise is in order regardless as I consider both sides equal 🚨 in my opinion 🚨

[normal ice]

I think so, because assuming it's given proper drawbacks, true invis can be given more opportunities to be strategized around.

There are a few people that get annoyed with Spy turning invisible in TF2, but then all it takes is a little more awareness before even his invis accomplishes very little

[sudden pewter]

As long as audio is unaffected I don’t see why we couldn’t have true invisibility, although due to it being on Light there needs to be some method of capping first strike advantage

[lyric jackal]

spy is probably the best character to take inspiration from. true invis but with a decloak time a sound when you decloak would allow for better stealth, and allow lights to score kills on distracted enemies, without getting screwed over by fake invis, or just how noisy it is to be invisible. a player who's ready for a light ambush would be rewarded, as he would kill the decloaking light (also a light who's trying to hide from a team would be heard and caught decloaking)

[normal ice]

Spy takes 2 entire seconds to decloak but is (nearly) silent while cloaked. I could see this working for Finals. I could also see keeping Finals' invis super loud all the time but having a shorter decloak (like around 0.25s)

There's lots of ways to redesign it

[lyric jackal]

constant noise would make it (and currently makes it) so hard to be sneaky. I'd take a longer cloak time/getting revealed by bonking into someone if it means i don't scream while invisible

[sudden pewter]

Spy isn’t silent. There no audio cues for the cloak outside cloaking and decloaking but footsteps are still audible

[normal ice]

I understand what you mean. Personally I'd prefer the duration to be silent, too. I just wanted to emphasize that true invis could be implemented in multiple different ways, and some aspects of the current design could remain. I think if we were to make it both true invis AND silent at the same time in one update, many players would be surprised or upsetted

[normal ice]

That's precisely why I said "(nearly)" silent lol

[sudden pewter]

True Cloak could be what Light needs to actually compete with Dash but it’s a very fine line between viable and OP

I definitely feel a decloak would be needed but that’s for Embark to figure out

All we need do is point out the inadequacy of how it works currently

[deep karma]

I think it's good that Light can't slip past a sightline and get a flank on you without actually using the map layout to accomplish it. Full invis would feel pretty silly if they slip through a doorway beside you into your backline and there's just nothing to preemptively stop that.

If they have audio still, sure, but spraying and hoping you hit them in a game with this TTK / Mag Size ratio would feel pretty frustrating, especially for semi-auto guns like Revolver.

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, it’s a tightrope

[deep karma]

I love Light, I'm glad cloak sucks right now.

[normal ice]

We have trap gadgets. And honestly, they usually infiltrate out of sight using Gateway, anyway...

[muted condor]

If invis was buff to be as viable as dash it would be broken an annoying af

[deep karma]

infiltrate out of sight using Gateway
Yeah I mean that's using the map layout to put it out of sight in that case - which is good.

[normal ice]

The focus isn't buffing -- it's fixing

[normal ice]

You could argue the same of a true invis. It doesn't last forever, so you need to know when exactly to put it to use. Spanning too large an area with it will leave you with no invis time left

[scarlet crag]

is the SA1216 bad or am i using it wrong

[normal ice]

It's, like, top 3 or 4 of the Heavy guns. Just takes practice to aim

[scarlet crag]

huh ok

[weak kernel]

it relies on winch a little more than it used to and if you're playing a casual lobby with like 6 lights it's probably a little more frustrating to use than like, the shak or M60 or something

[deep karma]

It's really funny when even at like 40m I can still see cloak clearly and take shots at it. I'm sure it's still really effective against console players with all the AI blurrry upscaling nonsense they have to deal with though - feels flawed at the moment.

[scarlet crag]

oh so i should play winch

[weak kernel]

with the 1216 probably

[normal ice]

You may be able to use Mesh Shield, too, but that relies more on teammates

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-i-hate-them-so-much-homer-simpson-i-hate-them-i-dont-like-them-gif-15981880319358164118

[scarlet crag]

what about the sHak-50 i like it does it have any good parings

[muted condor]

It pairs with everything

[weak kernel]

i think almost everything heavy has pairs pretty well with the shak

[normal ice]

ShAK-50 is like top 2 or 3. And yes, you can run it with anything

[muted condor]

The Shak is good because it doesn’t have any negatives

[normal ice]

Well, it's a little weaker at range and has poor sustain. But it's strong

[scarlet crag]

its been a bit but im coming back to the game and i love it

[deep karma]

Shak is the damage of AKM/FCAR but you have an extra 100 HP compared to them, definitely good to learn.

[sudden pewter]

Shak is literally one of Heavies best weapons. It’s flexible and sexy and the king of firearms

[normal ice]

I really hope they don't nerf it

[scarlet crag]

i just need to find others to play with honesty so i gotta chat here to level up so i can do some LFG

[sudden pewter]

Why would they? It’s perfect.

[sudden pewter]

35 messages bro. That’s all you need

[muted condor]

Don’t worry lights are complaining about the shield right now so the shak is safe

[scarlet crag]

ok then ill ask about guns and stuff when going for the 2 lever actions what should i get first

[muted condor]

Don’t get the model

[normal ice]

Yeah lol

[muted condor]

It’s completely outclassed by all other shotguns

[normal ice]

Repeater is honestly a better Model 90% of the time

[scarlet crag]

ok

so for light whats like top dash and run guns?

[normal ice]

Yes, just stick to Dash and some full-auto gun

Maybe V9S or LH1 if you feel evil

[deep karma]

Pick your favorite between M11, XP, 93R, and ARN for stability.

Double Barrel if you wanna play like that.

[normal ice]

Oh yeah, DB and Matter are good, too

[deep karma]

No real bad options on Light outside of things like Sniper, Dagger, Bow, and Throwing Knives

[scarlet crag]

is c4 good?

[normal ice]

(sword bad too)

C4 is best used for trapping the cashout. Yes, it's good

[deep karma]

Sword is killing faster than pre-nerf now I think people just need to give it more time to adjust.

[scarlet crag]

ok my playstyle is like sort of setting up traps on cashpoints and stealing it so i go heavy destruction

support play

[normal ice]

You may like Pyro Mines, Goo Gun, Dome Shield, Barricade, or Healing Emitter, then

[scarlet crag]

for med is the scar or ak better?

[normal ice]

fcar usually

[scarlet crag]

or is the famas good?

[normal ice]

FAMAS and FCAR are both good

Pike is better than any AR if you can aim it, though

[scarlet crag]

neat ok

what's the the need to have gadget that is like underrated but good

[sudden pewter]

Barricade

[scarlet crag]

best in each class

[tired salmon]

Has anybody actually done the recruit and rise thing? Less than 20 matches played seems insane, especially if you don’t have any friends who are interested but haven’t played that much already with the game being in its 7th season already. I feel like the odds of finding somebody in game that is that new is impossible too. It would be great if they had a list of new players you could invite to be your recruit or something.

[deep karma]

Yeah feels like something you should just make an alternate account for

[tired salmon]

Bouta fire up the old laptop and just afk on the alt there so I can grind my main on the pc 🤦‍♂️ the shit I go through to get a blue Helmet lol

[deep karma]

There's a business opportunity here.

Hire people to queue with you for the friend rewards and pay them by the hour.

[normal ice]

$1. That's the highest I'll go

[deep karma]

Well, a dollar is a dollar

[deep karma]

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-pokemon-wooper-huh-huhh-gif-10333941026352545707

Embed fail, laugh at this user

I've been in this server since beta and I still can't post properly - these restrictions are very funny.

[muted condor]

Time to go see if the duel blades still suck

[deep karma]

At the very least they protect your feet better than the riot shield, somehow!

[normal ice]

I can't take it anymore. I need to tell you directly. It's Dual Blades, not Duel Blades 😭

[muted condor]

[sudden pewter]

I’m not about to Smurf for cosmetics and tbh I think people that fiend for exclusives have some screws loose

If I had a friend that was interested in playing The Finals I’d have him sign up for the whatever program just for the free goodies but I’m not gunning for them

[deep karma]

Well they made all the battlepass exclusives unexclusive, so I think people just want something that says "I was here"

[sudden pewter]

🚨 IMO 🚨 the BP’s were never about exclusivity they were about getting a dump of cosmetics at a reasonable price you had to grind for which gave you something to grind for the duration of the season

The only exclusives left are from LTM’s and it’s only a matter of time before a vocal group of players clamor for that which they weren’t around for to earn

[deep karma]

You mean like, for Finals, or for their implementation in general from Fortnite and such?

[sudden pewter]

In general but that’s a rant about consumer first practices for another day

[deep karma]

Hmm well for good or ill I think there's an expectation of how a BP will work based on other games. It can feel like a rug pull when they go back on it. I think it's fair to say it was about exclusivity originally, and that's what they (Embark) stated too in their old messaging I believe?

[sudden pewter]

Halo Infinites only saving grace is that their BP’s are yours once you buy them. Not time limited and you can choose any of them to work on at any given time.

It’s what should be the standard but companies have spent millions of dollars in studies to abuse human psychology in hopes of extracting the most money from their players possible

FOMO is hated for all the right reasons but it’s never going away fully because it does objectively make more people pull out their credit cards

Mind Embark does great in terms of giving us value, I’m not saying they’re EA or anything. But there’s always room for improvement

[deep karma]

It does do that very well. FOMO business practices are not just all about income though - there's hidden things people don't think about like players coming back to get a battle pass or a LTM will keep retention high enough for matchmaking to be effective.

[sudden pewter]

||The Wheels||

[sudden pewter]

Yeah ofc. Exclusives and player retention etc. etc.

Perceived value, sunken cost, other big words

[deep karma]

Yeah the wheel is engineered in a lab as a FOMO bioweapon.

The numbers it did after their first test more than made up for any of the complaining about it I would imagine.

[sudden pewter]

I played Destiny2 for something like 4 years so I’m immune to propaganda but I recognize patterns I don’t like

Again, Embark is one of the best examples I’ve seen and recent changes are absolutely amazing. Not like they’re Ubisoft and the god awful MTX of Siege

[shut bane]

Destiny 2 is leagues worse than anything currently in the finals dawg I promise you

To me the wheel is pretty much just a time limited storefront tbh, fomo but that’s about where it ends imo, though I guess the collection based end reward is pretty sneaky, still just free stuff to me though since I couldn’t care less about the last few sets

[sudden pewter]

That’s why I quit bro
(That and retconning my favorite character 🏳️‍🌈)

[deep karma]

When you think about all of the salaries they have to pay to keep the team afloat in this hell of an industry right now, sometimes things like the wheel are a necessary evil. I don't think monetization performance was doing very well after S1 (likely still isn't, like the premium battle pass) so they'll have to keep making changes until things are stable. They need buffer in the margins to fund their next projects too.

[shut bane]

I’d say they’ve been taking the right steps so far with the finals personally, ultimate bp is paywalled but not a direct upgrade to the regular bp

[sudden pewter]

Wishing them the best for Arc Raiders but the state of S7 at launch left a lot to be desired, especially when asking for a $30 BP

Mind I still purchased it (solely to support development as I don’t like the skins)

I’d be heartbroken if The Finals went under as it’s a gem

[shut bane]

I bought it for the multibux

If it went under I’d grow up

[deep karma]

If they weren't using gen AI and AI art I'd consider buying things "just to support"

[shut bane]

Meh, they go about it in a way I personally don’t have any issue with

Scotty and June are pretty much just really advanced tts using people still on payroll (from what I’ve read, not a dev)

[sudden pewter]

They paid VA’s to train a TTS model. It isn’t really AI

No different from Microsoft Sam

Mind it is strange they haven’t really put the TTS to its full capacity. They aren’t saying our player names or anything, just teams

[deep karma]

I'm talking about assets in-game, concept art, and marketing assets to be clear. Ex:

[shut bane]

I’d be cool if they could integrate the AI more to have them be involved in individual matches more often though

[muted condor]

The voice actors were 100% aware that they’re voices were just being used to create the voices for the game

[shut bane]

Yeah nobodies gotten laid off for it unlike other fucking games

[sudden pewter]

I wanna say it’s meta because Ospuze is a company that doesn’t really care and the drink deadass has drugs in it but I understand your sentiment

[muted condor]

Also AI image generation doesn’t is massively over hated to do misinformation

[shut bane]

If it saves them more money for devs to be happier, healthier, and more motivated im all for it

My ass just wants more content and I’ve been getting it

[sudden pewter]

Clearly they do have actual artists in house to make killer seasonal promo so I’m okay with the odd ai piece for sponsors because it’s a meta narrative in universe

It’s not like they’re using AI generated shit to sell the game or market stuff that isn’t there

Scripted trailers aside ofc

[shut bane]

The artists have been going insane with the skins though

[silver mortar]

I'm pretty sure they aren't using either of those types of AI.
The voices is a different story because at least they made an attempt to do it ethically instead of just training it on a bunch of random people's voices without their genuine consent, and then proceed to lie to the public or its users about it.

I think Embark is doing AI ethically, as far as I can tell.

[sudden pewter]

Again the TTS isn’t AI technically

It’s technology we’ve had for a long time, and the VA’s were compensated

[silver mortar]

actually you're right, we often forget about pre-AI TTS

[deep karma]

A studio doesn't just dip a toe in AI art generation halfway - I got bad news about the in-game skins and textures and paintings, haha.

To be clear, not talking about the TTS at all also.

[sudden pewter]

Insert Scotty WooHoo line

[shut bane]

If you mean art in general, I sincerely doubt AI generation is the only factor at play when designing an entire map, or animating certain skins, I can totally see it being useful for concept and texturing though

[deep karma]

Only factor, certainly not! They have very talented artists and environment artists.

[sudden pewter]

That much is obvious

Medium could still use bigger bits though 🙏

[muted condor]

Company using modern resources to lower the cost of production and improve works quality of work? Dreadful

[silver mortar]

i keep forgetting this tbh.

I was under the impression that they were going to use AI to do chat generation for TTS, but wasn't sure if the voice replication was trained or not (which of course, was possible like 50 years ago). I want to see Neuro-Sama featured in this game.

[silver mortar]

it doesn't always improve quality though, its often slop

[shut bane]

Hey if I were in their position I’d be abusing the fuck out of it as well, been working for them so far

[muted condor]

People can make slop too ya know

[silver mortar]

I don't think AI by itself is the problem, its the unethical ways people are shilling it to the uneducated public (non-derogatory) that I have a problem with.

If we only used it ethically as a tool, I'd hate it's prevelance a lot less.

[muted condor]

All depends on quality control

[sudden pewter]

Too many idiots treat AI as a product generator rather than a tool

[silver mortar]

yes, i don't see how that's a relevant counter argument though.
it takes less effort to make generated slop.

[muted condor]

Takes less effort to make high quality products

[sudden pewter]

Mm yes I’m going to prompt: Sexy woman with large assets

Bam, my work is done. Whatever it spits out is my “product” because I have no integrity

[silver mortar]

bruh, people using ChatGPT for technical support when they need specific syntactic instructions drives me fucking nuts.

[sudden pewter]

Rather than using AI to make a texture for a model you’re actively making and designing

[silver mortar]

anyway, i thought this was the weapons-gadget chat

[muted condor]

I’d only ever use something like GPT to answer a really simple question quickly

Not gonna ask it for tax aid

[sudden pewter]

“Oh the texture it generated has seams or doesn’t fit my vision so let me edit it”

Which is ethical use

[shut bane]

GPT is genuinely a very useful tool if you arent treating it like your money and grade generator

[silver mortar]

AI Chat Bots are probably best used as a conversational tool to loosely "talk to yourself" and bounce general ideas back and forth with.

But I still think generative AI replacing Art stuff is just not necessary.

[muted condor]

Chat bots seem weird to me, I already talk to myself so why pay for it

[silver mortar]

I hate when people use it as a replacement for Google searching/dorking

[shut bane]

It’s essentially taking from Wikipedia without looking at the sources lol, worse even since it’s taking from the internet in general not just an info page

[sudden pewter]

The lawyer using chat GPT to make a case using references that don’t exist:

[muted condor]

Me asking GPT how to fly a helicopter 5 minutes before my first flight (I claimed to have 3 years of experience)

[silver mortar]

dude, AI generation is spamming technical articles and hallucinating commands and software that doesn't exist.
apparently there's an up-tick in bug-bounty submissions that are clearly AI generated, and it's making it harder for developers to patch things.

I'm not sure how much of that is automated, or just a person using AI unethically, but its a thing that costing web traffic and electricity/heat-generated

[shut bane]

Surely they need to provide actual evidence for the bugs

[muted condor]

One thing Iv found really interesting is watching AI by pass counters faster than they are made

[tidal urchin]

flamethrower range needs dialed down

[muted condor]

It’s really cool how some of it works on the technical side

[sudden pewter]

I’m using my psionic powers to make you explode

[deep karma]

Off topic 😏

[muted condor]

[tidal urchin]

last time i checked the thread said "weapons-gadgets"

[shut bane]

He’s on topic for the chat though

[muted condor]

Not anymore

[silver mortar]

I'm not a Luddite, I just wish AI stuff was used more ethically.
At the end of the day, it's still a people problem, so I understand the people that want to defend the technology.

Which is why I never chose Vaiiya as my sponsor (it's chat related now)

[deep karma]

I wasn't being serious. I'm sorry if i caused you any confusion or trouble.

[muted condor]

We claim this chat as the off topic/light hating chat

[silver mortar]

I said the same thing 15 minutes ago lol

honestly, it's just less loud in here. spawn-point too.

the-finals-chat is non-stop

[muted condor]

I joined Vaiiya because free will is for nerds

[shut bane]

Vaiyya signees when they forget to pay their cerebral chatbot implant subscription

[silver mortar]

I'm gonna rewrite the entire Bible and make it The Finals related

in korean and upside down braille

[muted condor]

Lights are Satan right?

[silver mortar]

Vaiiya signees when they involuntarily deliver an Ospuze ad in the middle of a painful divorce proceeding

[muted condor]

That would be awesome

[silver mortar]

I didn't think this far, I think we have a problem

[silver mortar]

at-least we'd remember to stay hydrated after all the crying

[sudden pewter]

I was being serious. I’m Facebook friends with Obama and a drone is enroute to his home.

Its payload: Comically Large Anvil

[tidal urchin]

No im sorry.. I was in a bad mood cause I kept dying about it in a ranked match so i took my rage to this chat about the flamethrower lol.. all good

[sudden pewter]

The Lights could learn from you Ishallah

[stone moth]

We need a burst weapon for heavy, I think a 3-round burst AUG would be fire

[static grove]

sick and tire of this pistol

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1393085421482672138/speechmemified_pasteimage.gif

[bitter surge]

Heavy needs heavy weapons like a shockwave gun or something uses a rocket launcher but functions differently from the mgl

[cedar peak]

can somebody give me weapon suggestions; i want to move on from the cerberus but i seem to suck with literally everything else

maybe its my playstyle?

[static grove]

cerberus is quite inconsistent weapon, is good sometimes, other is the worst thing you can bring to the fight. just use the model

[stone moth]

Those would definitely be cool weapons for sure. The Aug I’m thinking of is a modified version of the Aug called the Steyr aug hbar-t which I think fits heavy’s powerful arsenal

[stone moth]

It def depends on ur play-style but if u like shotguns and playing medium and u have decent aim I would try the repeater. It’s basically a shotgun, I find more success doing pop shots rather than staying in ads when shooting. Otherwise yeah the model ain’t to bad

[cedar peak]

appreciate it, I was under the assumption that post-nerf model was bad but i'll give it a try. also recently i've been wondering, is there a set activation delay for the demat? or is it just a ping issue

never mind its most likely because of the constant red gauge icon on the corner of my screen

[static grove]

is quite oppressive right now, because they compensate the lower firepower with a faster shooting

is not bad at all

[shut bane]

Ahhhh idk, model can be pretty slow in its ttk against heavies and mediums if you aren’t hitting your spreads dead on

I’d still use Cerberus over model personally, even if it doesn’t three tap a heavy anymore the burst dps and reload speed for three shots makes it pretty strong post nerfs

[dusty reef]

Invisible and DB might be the most obnoxious unskilled garbage any player can run

[sudden pewter]

Your hatred for Lights will consume you.

[winter jay]

Cloak db is just a little sad. Just use dash

[bitter surge]

👍 🤝

[dusty reef]

Any DB user is a piece of crap

Gut the crap out of DB and never allow it to come to meta again. It is a legit crutch for very bad players.

[tepid pike]

just have them run the CB

[modern citrus]

Are Embark ever going to fix or rework the Dual Blades? We've had 4 seasons of this shit. https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1mdiw8c/straigh_up_dualblade_robbery/

[silver mortar]

I like Cerberus more for fun, but Model is definitely better if you can land your shots. Cerberus spread is pretty wide, which makes it easy to hit when close, but you can't always get that close. You can at least do chip damage on people further away with the Model, and Hombre's right that it's more reliable.

Put Cerberus down for a week and learn the timing for the Model in game or practice range.

[silver mortar]

Grapple DB is the funniest shit I've ever seen/done

[dusty reef]

@tepid pike CB is very good with a good player but it at least takes some skill.

[royal pier]

Btw I did confirm that MGL32 nades do bounce a bit less when crouched.

Makes sense, but this game often doesn't.

[royal pier]

Then other times you get this.

[hot kettle]

okay but what about a motorcycle that lets you go really fast in a straight line then you can bail and it explodes and breaks a wall

[winter jay]

It’s peak

[muted condor]

Dual blades have been completely broken and unusable for over half the game’s life time 👍

Embark has never even acknowledged it

[cedar peak]

Has the timing for the model changed? That was my main before the Cerberus came out. I don’t play the game too often, maybe I just need more playtime with other weapons. Thanks, ima give the model a try again

[cedar peak]

I see

[royal pier]

Soooo....Explosions do dissipate smoke nades, and it has physics.

It does not work on powder.

[modern citrus]

My blades are level 7, I know full well what they're capable of. Even a broken clock is right twice a day; I could share plenty of examples of absolute domination with those weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that they're incredibly inconsistent, slow, and buggy the vast majority of the time.

[silver hull]

The finals

[royal pier]

I was agreeing with you.

I would take less damage deflected in exchange for said deflect being reliable.

[abstract skiff]

You are telling me that the powder barrels and the smoke grenades are different smoke? tf

[royal pier]

Seems so.

[near scroll]

who here agrees with my opinion that making TTKs longer would be fun

[coral root]

Shorten gadget cooldown when defibbed

[indigo nexus]

Indeed, but not by a lot

[near scroll]

oh yeah for sure, like 33%-50% increase, not double or triple the TTK

[indigo nexus]

However I think a proportional increase to mag sizes would also be needed

[near scroll]

that's a good point

could also adjust firerates, to avoid having to touch damage and mag size

might feel weird tho. it would for sure be quite an undertaking but yeah i wouldn't mind that. longer fights, more util, less getting 100-0'd cause you couldn't find cover in 1 second

[placid slate]

Fucking with the ttk would screw over semi autos more than automatics in most cases

[polar cedar]

mythical speech bubble

[hollow oriole]

what is the best build for heavy ?

[spark zinc]

Glitch trap range so ahh

[spark zinc]

Be annoying

[placid slate]

Shak with either winch or mesh if you wanna do hard meta, otherwise whatever you perform well with will be your best pick

[hollow oriole]

what is winch

[ashen hawk]

Someone pls tell Embark that listening to #👂┇game-feedback will ruin their game even more.
Shit is genuine ragebait, if I'm falling for it and so many others are too, idk why Embark can't tell.

• Hitscan praisers shitting on CL40 and flamethrower
• XP54/FAMAS grinders trying to act useful so the best thing they can say is "give a ranged secondary attack to meelee weapons".
• Low IQ lights begging for Stun Gun's return.
• Mfs asking for Goo grenade nerfs just because they're "too useful"

Is the low IQ-ness and bait not obvious?

[slender bear]

Any spec ideas?
The general opinion I've seen on winch is that it needs to be removed entirely, and I'm thinking they should add three new specs and remove winch in season 8, which would even out the spec distribution.

That, or they could give light and medium two new specs each and give heavy one, or they could just not give heavy anything new and give one each to light and medium.

[rare birch]

I disagree with Winch removal, unless you are a Goo Gun God it's kinda necessary to play Sledge efficiently

[slender bear]

That's a huge part of why people want it gone, sledge got absolutely gutted last season solely because winch exists.
Heavy's cqc weapons are being actively held back by winch's existence, to the point where they are now completely dependant on it.

[placid slate]

Winch claw is a specialisation on heavy where you throw a large hook that grabs onto enemies and loose objects such as the cashout, allowing you to bring them towards you

You can try it out in the oratuce range without having to buy it

[spark zinc]

Hey

[amber ermine]

is getting emerald skins gon change next season ? heard they might introduce emerald shards that u can like stack in order to get any emerald skin u want, is there any truth to this

[restive plover]

Just remove it, defib sickness was wholly unnecessary.

[spark zinc]

Bro they hate med

[spark zinc]

Ambulance lvl💔

[restive plover]

I don't know what this means.

[supple cove]

riot shield is now on high A-S tier

[spark zinc]

Kira died to ambulance

[restive plover]

Ah.

[spark zinc]

Pls give med a stim that he can heal himself with

And make it replace heal beam

[amber ermine]

that's a good idea but not replacing healing beam

[rare birch]

How is a slow heavy without movement gadgets supposed to get into melee with any competent player without a Winch Claw?

[slender bear]

Taking up space (heavy's specialty) and playing to the objective. Heavy has 3 different ways to make cover for themselves as they approach, and a gadget that is specifically designed to lock players into a specific area.

You could even run mesh or charge, depending on whether you want more sustain for the approach or if you just want to get there faster.

Not to mention goo gun

[spark igloo]

it also doesnt work half the time in actual games

[spark igloo]

goo grenade, dome shield, or team movement

[rare birch]

Only bad oppponents will run into melee because you pop a dome shield

[spark igloo]

the dome lets you walk up

its for taking space without getting harmed not so much baiting players

[rare birch]

Then they just walk backwards while shooting me

[spark igloo]

well they cant shoot u if theres a dome between you and them

[rare birch]

That dome was often nerfed and has really limited HP

[hollow wigeon]

Any tips for Medium players? I am trying out Large and Medium

[spark igloo]

would you rather no dome and just get fried

[rare birch]

I would rather Winch my opponent and hit them

[spark igloo]

the prompt was without winch

[muted condor]

Can’t wait to watch sledge players have another meltdown when winch gets nerfed

[restive plover]

Especially since sledge(and sa12) won't get any compensation now that the thing making them so obnoxious is dead, since embark is allergic to reversions.

[stiff vine]

dont say that, look at how they buffed every bad light weapon

cant even say bad just underused because all light weapons are good

[indigo nexus]

Can definitely make the case for dagger being bad

possibly bow and sword.

[stiff vine]

sword and bow are crazy fun and good

[restive plover]

Bow is fun, not good. Current sword is neither.

[stiff vine]

i didnt really like how sword was only an M2 weapon that could 2 shot heavies so im glad they made it so the M1 for sword is useful

[indigo nexus]

I would agree but I think they pushed it a bit too far.

Right click is a bit too punishing I think.

It’s still theoretically highly useful but it will let you down a lot.

[muted condor]

Dagger and sword are the only bad light weapons

[rare birch]

without winch your only option is setting up defenses and hope your opponent is dumb enough to get into melee out of his own free will. I tried running Sledge with Mesh, it was bad

[muted condor]

And dagger is bad because it’s a flawed weapon in concept alone

[rare birch]

Sword is playable at low levels of skill

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330547234684989/1397081229911785552/kJXz8C18O6bQyrWiq_ZLcTUyDyU8Udwn3h2YsveA3.mp4?ex=688c4a49&is=688af8c9&hm=f5c878fcbef228d3821e23e55abbade5f4e3aa9b540463f1b4525b1ceffb7e28&
Naw bro dagger is fine

[indigo nexus]

Free will? Nah, TDM isn’t the goal. You force them to take dangerous moves via the objective

[sudden pewter]

This kills me

[indigo nexus]

Do you view this as evidence for the dagger being good?

[sudden pewter]

No it’s unhealthy!!!!

[indigo nexus]

Well, I agree with that

[sudden pewter]

(Not in terms of balance but just as a weapon)

[rare birch]

That requires you to be in control of the objective in the first place, what if you have to attack one?

[indigo nexus]

No difference. Assuming your team isn’t in a bad spot and lacking much utility, you can force them to come close to defend their objective

[muted condor]

Dagger should be completely reworked

[indigo nexus]

There’s not really any way to fix its problems without removing the backstab, so that’s a bit of a tall order

[muted condor]

The back stab shouldn’t exist

[storm hedge]

Exactly. The whole charge backstab thing needs to go. A light attack to the back of an opponent should automatically be a backstab and insta kill.

[muted condor]

It was a cool idea but doesn’t fit the game and will never actually work correctly

[placid slate]

Dagger isn't flawed when it actually fucking works

[winter jay]

What’s the proposed replacement

[muted condor]

Idk that’s for embark to figure out

But a one shot to any class is inherently flawed

[storm hedge]

Cries about the dagger but thinks the double barrel is fine xD

[stiff vine]

charge for a flurry of knife attacks

the flurry will deal up to 175 damage over 5 quick stabs

[sudden pewter]

I’m okay with the backstab I just hate the desync. There isn’t a silver bullet fix and I don’t think it should be reworked but I’d love to see more serverside checks

In the clip you can deadass see me track the light for the entire duration, always in front of me 100% of the time

And I still get stabbed

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[near scroll]

nerf the 4 D's : double barrel dash demat dwinch

[sudden pewter]

Waiting for the Light to completely dismantle my argument with “Erm it doesn’t matter if you did everything correct and still got killed because your back should have been against a wall!!!”

[near scroll]

dagger players must be gambling addicts there's no other way

[sudden pewter]

It’s a unique weapon and I don’t want it taken away from them

At the same time, per Embark “weapons must feel intuitive for both user and target”

And currently dagger is not Intuitive

[near scroll]

only way current dagger stays relevant in the meta game is through the dash stab tech tho. if tomorrow we magically all had to go for regular backstabs that weapon becomes by far #1 worst weapon in this game

if only half of light's weapons weren't balanced around one spec

and also if only servers worked consistently lol

[muted condor]

I just think a weapon having the same TTK for a light and heavy is dumb

Completely destroys the game design

[near scroll]

ngl i see so few dagger players i can't even bother being upset at the weapon design lol

[sudden pewter]

Dagger is on light, the class most able to negate effective range issues with their insane mobility. The dagger doesn’t have to be competitive viable it just needs to be fun. I like to think that’s why Dagger player use it.

[heavy vapor]

the more i refine my build for riot shield the more i realize than im just turning into blitz from R6

[sudden pewter]

Let’s say they fix the desync issues overnight, just a magical solution and it’s fixed. What changes?
Victims can properly fight against dagger and the players using it have to be more selective with their targets or wait until their targets are otherwise engaged with something else. No net negatives

If dagger players wanted to perform well they’d just swap to DB. But they don’t (bless them)

[muted condor]

It’s not a problem now but imagine trying to play heavy if it became meta

The game would be literally unplayable

[near scroll]

it's not like heavy has no counters to dagger players bro

[sudden pewter]

I mean if the dagger didn’t have Desync issues I wouldn’t mind fighting them more as Heavy

[near scroll]

goo gun and nade, lockbolt, smartly placed mines, couple of shots + RPG, anti grav... we have options

[muted condor]

I firmly believe dagger can only be in one of two places with how it works
1: inconsistent and not viable
2: completely broken and makes to game unfun

[sudden pewter]

Anti-Grav cube when the dash light surfs the wave and lands on my face :

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-pathetic-principal-skinner-gif-13486077408184960752

[muted condor]

Yeah let me just goo the light with unlimited dashes that is behind me before I’m able to swap weapons 😂

Makes sense

[near scroll]

if you get legitimately backstabbed from behind you have legit no reason to complain bro

that's the "intended" way to play the weapon, the one that's intuitive as well

[muted condor]

Except it’s bull shit and shouldn’t be in this game

[near scroll]

well now you're showing your bias

[muted condor]

Embark won’t let anything one shot lights but lights can one shot heavies? Yeah that’s fare

[sudden pewter]

Yeah I hate backstab due to its inconsistency and frustration fighting due to desync

[sudden pewter]

But I also 100% agree with this

[warped ether]

Tbh, with enough hours put into it, you can tell if it's better to slide backwards or run up to them.

[muted condor]

Yes I am bias against stupid features that shouldn’t exist and make the game unfun

[warped ether]

I haven't had a problem. With good dagger lights. Only the cracked ones that always seem to be in my back.

[near scroll]

getting snuck up on is a feature that souldn't exist and makes the game unfun?
i know a solution! recon senses!

[sudden pewter]

Let the revolver 1 headshot 1 body lights
Let the spear 2 tap lights
If they fuck around to find out they should be punished

[muted condor]

Why don’t we bring back the taser while we’re at it

[muted condor]

Let me one shot lights with rpg then

Let me two shot them with dual blades

[near scroll]

lol

[warped ether]

Grab a shotgun

[muted condor]

Make the turret kill them twice as fast

[warped ether]

Or glitch mine them and do your stuff with dualies

[near scroll]

either way, you should pick a side, do you want everyone to one shot each other or not? you can't argue that dagger one shots are bullshit but then advocate for oneshotting lights with stuff like rpg lol

[muted condor]

You’re the one not picking a side

We ether let one shots exist or we don’t

[warped ether]

The good ol' days of one shot rpg. I'm glad I was always playin with hammer

[muted condor]

Also bring back winch/sledge combo

If one shoting is fine why nerf hammer?

[near scroll]

i agree embark should fix the discrepancies in who can one shot what. but overall idk if i want one shots in this game ngl

[muted condor]

I want no one shots

[near scroll]

i do think longer fights on average is more fun, so yeah. however if we're removing one shots dagger needs reworked and i haven't thought about that yet

[muted condor]

Except maybe headshoting lights with sniper

[near scroll]

i feel like making melee able to one combo is kinda necessary too, else you need to powercreep the gap closing options so they can get back in, but we are seeing rn what happens when gap closing options are too strong and melee/gun balance is out of wack

[sudden pewter]

It’s ok if melee can’t one combo as long as they bring something else to the table

Sledge works because besides being a melee weapon it’s a destruction tool
Sword aside from being a melee weapon offers enhanced mobility
Dual blades beyond being a melee weapon enable reflection of incoming damage

The issue(?) is when melee weapons dont have anything special to offer aside from just being a weapon. Look at the spear.

What does it do? It deals damage. And sometimes deals damage in an AOE when it feels like it.

We’re never getting more melee weapons because Embark themselves have no idea what to do with them

[shell sonnet]

They should make the aoe attack less punishing to use
Only last as long as you hold it

What i would love to see is the knockback be increased again
Moving cashouts could be huge and a nice alternative

Sledge: moving through destruction, but useless once on the floor
Vs
Speer: high movement, even on flat ground, but needs to maneuver out of the building first or use another form of destruction

[sudden pewter]

Honestly I just want to be able to cancel it prematurely

Spear isn’t being played with anything other than Winch so idk if knock back is necessary