💣┇weapons-gadgets

[royal pier]

You have to stand still to steal and revive, meaning using the M11 at mid range is pretty fuckin viable for those common situations.

Before, the recoil was high enough that even with good control you weren't beaming people.

Embark now consistently needlessly buffs alternatives to the meta picks the same patch they nerf said meta.

[slender bear]

There are also plenty of situations where someone isn't standing still. At least half of every match is spent moving around.

[plush harbor]

still does shit damage

can’t one mag a medium at max distance

[royal pier]

Not at its intended range. Point is that it's supposed to be an extreme close range weapon, then they go and give it more mid range utility.

This helps it a lot in team fight situations.

They keep making weapons useful in a more general sense, despite all the games in the past that are looked on fondly typically having weapons be good at one range/situation, and weak outside of it.

[indigo nexus]

333 damage per mag at max distance, 499 with headshots.

[royal pier]

If anything, the M11 should be more like the Minigun insofar that you have the "tighten spread" aim instead of the traditional ADS. It would make it very different from the XP-54.

[indigo nexus]

that would be interesting. I'd like that kind of rework.

[royal pier]

All lowering the recoil did for the M11 is make it a bit more like the XP-54.

So now the question is "do you want a bit better close or mid range power, but don't worry you're not worthless at either."

[plush harbor]

this games balance team is so lost

[royal pier]

Weapons being specialized has historically been better for balance and variety.

Giving all the optics except a couple also removes a potential balance option.

For example, the FAMAS could only have irons and the zoomed optic to make it not blatantly outclass the other options. I get many don't like burst fire, but that doesn't make the FAMAS less of the objectively better choice. It also has way too good hipfire.

[indigo nexus]

variety 100%, balance? how would that even work? balance would be perfect with equally designed weapons, and it's possible to reach a near-objective balance with similarly designed guns.

[royal pier]

If anything, the AKM should be the option with the best hipfire, with the FAMAS having the worst, and the FCAR in the middle.

[indigo nexus]

You think it does? It seems fairly fair to me. The differences in viability should definitely be small.

[royal pier]

That's the thing, they keep adding weapons in categories that don't need more options.

Like, is the Repeater really offering anything the Pike doesn't? Different damage and RoF doesn't make it that unique.

[indigo nexus]

It's far more burst focused than pike is. I'd say they're a lot more different than medium's automatics are to one another.

[royal pier]

Viability should be close, but they don't have to be basically the same gun with one being 2% better.

[indigo nexus]

None of them are objectively superior to another. It's all opinion based

[royal pier]

But was it worth it being added over something completely different?

[indigo nexus]

depends on what that was.
I don't know what alternate weapon would have been introduced

[royal pier]

No, the AKM just does less damage, and its hipfire is worse, too.

[indigo nexus]

Huh? It has better ttk and mag size than the other ARs

those are its things.

[royal pier]

Fireballs, AoE lightning staff, saw blade thrower, the options are limitless because of the setting.

[indigo nexus]

those sound kind of lame to me, but it would depend on the implementation

[indigo nexus]

likewise FCAR has best range and reload speeds

while Famas has burst power and hipfire

[cerulean locust]

Tis might be bold of me but I prefer the recoil of the FCAR over the AKM, once you get used to it its just easier to handle

[royal pier]

What needs to be pointed out is that nobody hits 100% HS that isn't cheating, but also the FCAR recoil is now stupidly easy to control.

They're so close ttk wise that the recoil and hipfire are the deciding factors, and the FCAR is going to win that.

[indigo nexus]

this is a bit misleading, the full scenario with the two weapon's ttks is actually slightly unusual

[royal pier]

And it doesn't really have that much more ammo.

But also the old amount was probably too forgiving.

This just leads back to my point that this is why it's better to have more drastic differences.

[indigo nexus]

well, so the difference was actually smaller than I remember, in my mind I had what the comparison looks like with the Famas, which has a slower ttk - but note that you only need a low headshot rate for the AKM to beat the FCAR in ttk.

16% bigger mag is fairly substantial imo.

[royal pier]

Maybe the AKM is better up close with good hipfire, but worse damage drop-off than the FAMAS and FCAR. Meanwhile, the FAMAS has the best mid-range performance, but limited optics and poor hipfire.

[royal pier]

Except as someone else pointed out, the FCAR now has easier recoil.

[cerulean locust]

Is the FAMAS hip-fire poor? I use it as a swap to the FCAR and I often find it has very decent hip-fire

[royal pier]

AKM isn't difficult by any means, but the snakey motion is harder than it climbing steadily in one direction.

[indigo nexus]

That's likely fair. I lack a way to quantify it for now.

[royal pier]

No, it's absurdly OP. I'm saying what it could be.

[indigo nexus]

here's a famas fcar comparison for extra reference

I should really make a system for an arbitrary number of guns per graph...

[royal pier]

I think even of they made the ttk at all ranges identical, there would still be the issue of one gun having something that's just slightly better, making the other options sub-par to even mildly competitive players.

Whereas if they give each one a distinct niche where it blatantly beats the other options, it would be healthier balance wise.

[ocean mural]

throwing knives are the best convince me outerwise

[gusty relic]

Anyone got any ideas that can enhance my build further I use xp with dash nullifier frag and pyro

[tidal shadow]

I think there's a perfect gadget for Heavy :3
it is a barrel that works like Pokémon ball, you can throw this at your teammate and capture them
while they are inside your barrel:

• you can't swap to other gadget or weapon (but can use specialization)
• you have slower movement speed
• teammate cannot be damaged

you can release your teammate by throwing this barrel Donkey Kong style, yeet your teammate really high up or really far
usage:

• Save your teammate
• Engage/flank
• speed boost (after throwing, the momentum carry over)
• etc

(they can press interact key if they want to get out, so there won't be any griefing)

pros:

• feels like what heavy can do
• fun teamwork
• a reason to play heavy more

[indigo nexus]

cons: terrible potential for griefing and frustrated "victims". Something would need to be done to stop this.

[lapis dock]

good evening, are nama-tama goo nade limited items ?

[bright hill]

Is teammates blocking your bullets a bug or feature?

[fathom cove]

shuld i use low sensitivity on sniper

btw add pike scope on sniperpls

[runic root]

can we fix this bug of having thermal on, and another light being cloaked directly in front of you. but still being invisible. I had a vod and it has this happening a NUMBER of time

this game also has some of the worst dsync i have EVER experienced. Cant even take this game somewhat seriously anymorel. Hit registration is 100% cucked.

[sick ginkgo]

M2 Browning deployable machine gun as a spec for Heavy

[restive plover]

I have 1300 vrs, what stuff do i buy for either heavy of medium (for tdm, idc about main mode)

[north perch]

im gonna swap flashbang for lockbolt, anything else i should change?

[sick ginkgo]

Swap lockbolt for flashing lights

[sick ginkgo]

Swap frag with gas

[stark pecan]

Weapons being specialized has historically been better for balance and variety.
Giving all the optics except a couple also removes a potential balance option.

For example, the FAMAS could only have irons and the zoomed optic to make it not blatantly outclass the other options. I get many don't like burst fire, but that doesn't make the FAMAS less of the objectively better choice. It also has way too good hipfire.

I don't know, I'd rather not reward turtling actually. I've noticed a trend in fps games that rewarding sitting in corners makes the game a worse experience for everybody. If we want to cope and call that "strategy", I guess it counts as a strategy, but not a good one for the health of the game
It only really works in hardcore tac shooters like tarkov because everyone is already going in expecting to have a bad time and getting exactly what they aske

[royal pier]

I'm also not a fan of roof camping, but if Embark os going to insist on having it be a thing, at the very least they can make it so that the weapons that are used for it suck ass in close range.

Btw, there's a reply option in discord, you don't have to copy everything I said. It's pure chance I even saw this.

[stark pecan]

idk

[slender bear]

It still kind of bothers me that medium has the best spec progression rewards. I feel like most of the time when people say the devs play favorites with medium there's not always a lot of validity to those claims, but it's just so blatant when it comes to the progression rewards.

Here are the numbers
Light:
2 uncommon rewards
10 rare rewards
0 epic rewards
0 legendary rewards

Medium
8 uncommon rewards
10 rare rewards
7 epic rewards
1 legendary reward

Heavy:
4 uncommon rewards
13 rare rewards
4 epic rewards
0 legendary rewards

Medium has 8 uncommon spec rewards, 10 rare ones, 7 epic ones, and the ONLY legendary spec reward in the game. Light, on the other hand, has 6 less uncommon rewards, the same amount of rare ones, 7 less epic one, and light doesn't have any legendary spec rewards.

I think it's really saying something that medium has the most rewards at every tier except rare, where it STILL has just as many as light.

Medium actually gets almost as many epic and legendary rewards as light has IN TOTAL, which is kind of pathetic at this point. They aren't even trying to hide it.

[reef atlas]

Whats the best wepon for a light (i started 3 days ago)

[restive plover]

so that explains it. i thought it was holo sight the reason i can win 1v1 70% of the time using fcar "now"

[vast plaza]

IDEA FOR NEW WEPON:
an "under over shotgun rifle" Its a break action gun with 1 shotgun barrel and 1 rifle barrel. it will ethier be good at super close range or super long range so it will have an interesting dynamic. i feel like this would work best for medium but let me know what yall think

the Savage Arms model 24 is a good example

[supple perch]

The finals is like the only fps that works around that cause its an objective based game with destructible terrain. You can't wait for people to walk by you cause you have to get cash boxes. Hard to turtle when you have idea what direction someone might attack you from

Also came here to say fuck the cl40 that pos is so overpowered now. It was literally fine before, I used to use it on occasion

[supple perch]

sword

[slender bear]

I would kind of like to see a heavy pistol on light. If it had a reload mechanism like the model it would be interesting, especially if it was closer to the reload time of other pistols on light. It could also have a scope!

[supple perch]

they should just fix the 93r

[exotic skiff]

ok don't listen to that

[supple perch]

I got like 28 elims on team deathmatch, its great

[exotic skiff]

it's not

[iron pelican]

Start with something automatic

[exotic skiff]

best light weapons : xp arn m11

m26 is good as well

[iron pelican]

That matter can matter

[sick ginkgo]

best gun on light is the Car15

there should be a frying pan sword skin

[iron pelican]

Hammer

[sick ginkgo]

there should be a george romero (rip) style hammer skin from call of the dead

[slender bear]

What if heavy got a track and field skin set, with only throwing event skins?
Discus pyro mines
Shot put dome shield
Javelin spear skin

[rough carbon]

it's like goo griefing but worse lol

[slender bear]

Just realized there's only one uncommon weapon charm in the whole game, and it's on light's cloaking device progression track. They really are allergic to giving light good spec progression lol

[winter jay]

javelin spear is a thing already. idk whats its from might be a BP

[hardy dust]

From a ltm

[winter jay]

ah thx

[slender bear]

I should have known considering the way they usually do skins...
At least we might still get discus and shot put stuff. I was thinking they could do it during the summer olympics, but it turns out they were last year and that was where the sporty spirits ltm came from in the first place. Maybe we'll get another one in three years

[bitter surge]

I think a new gadget for the medium class is literally necessary at this point

[boreal laurel]

Actually it’s from a limited-time event for the 2024 Olympics

[stark apex]

light can't work guys, its underpowered class

50m+ headshots only with m11 btw

[atomic horizon]

Lowkey they should chose where I can chose what I get from a data reshape

[plush harbor]

I think he’s just goated

[stark apex]

i aboustely didn't mean to put this here

and that called cheating

[sick ginkgo]

Add a Javelin heat seeking rocket launcher on light and a m250 browning on heavy

[potent jay]

Whats the best medium weapon?

[cunning kettle]

Probably just uni on an alt

[winter jay]

That guy makes it look so easy. Dash and m11 both

[sick ginkgo]

Probably the SV Annihilatir

[near scroll]

any assault rifle, pick the one you prefer

[fathom lotus]

HOW am i seeing people hip fire the revolver ? is it an animation or skin? if so wwhats its called

[sick ginkgo]

It called horizon dawn

[near scroll]

horizon hammer

[icy sparrow]

@hexed flame Thanks I agree with the ks23 headshot but also need wall penetration but low damage after it goes though a wall.

Maybe have ks23 need a slight increase in bullet speed but 1.1 increases in damage.

The sheild bash for riot shield should do 5 damage but have good knock back mainly to deal with sledge and a range closer

[near scroll]

more melee weapons when

also hybrid melee/ranged weapon when

[wind folio]

Old rifle with knife on it

[fathom lotus]

ty papa

[hardy dust]

Cerb or pike

[drowsy osprey]

Cerby easily imo

[tame aspen]

Cerb cqb everything else pike

[oblique crypt]

Yeah I've been absolutely popping off with light in Heavy Hitters.

[agile panther]

Is the splash damage from a RPG and CL-40 round the same?

[amber ermine]

a minigun skin like this would go crazy

[sweet thistle]

Pls revert sword

[crimson nimbus]

The Real issue is whinng from noobs who struggle against Lights or something. Stop nerf. Just buff underperforming and unfairly nerfed weapons.

If the Sword’s lunge doesn’t go back to 140 damage,it’s just useless.If it’s under 140,you can’t use it against Medium or Heavy at all.That value was carefully calculated and made sense in terms of balance.

Everyone knows Dagger,Sword and all melee get countered by Light.But you nerfed Sword while pretending it was for the sake of Lights, even though it was obviously done to benefit Mediums.
People are tired of these blatant patches made only for Medium.There’s a reason people started saying “The Mediums”.
Heavy is still powerful at close range,so melee isn’t even a threat to them.

Medium has tons of tools to counter melee: turrets, mines, goo grenade, glitch trap, dematerializer, jump pad, zip line, proximity sensor, and a bunch of weapons. And still, these skill-issue players cry for nerfs to melee and weak wepon even though they already have all those tools. They just can’t handle melee because of a skill issue.

I play all class,melee was never a problem when I played Medium or Heavy(not to mention Light).If anything, having melee was a guaranteed win. But because of these dumb whining, stuff that wasn’t even meta got nerfed.That’s how you ruin patches.

If you keep listening to people who ask for nerfs not because something is overpowered,but just because it annoys them(cause skill issue), of course the game will fall apart. And in doing so, you're killing the fun and variety of the game.

About Double Barrel,you nerfed it, then reverted it. Because Light has low HP, so it needs to have high DPS. DB is only viable up close, and it needs to 2-tap Heavy.That balance was correct, so reverted.
The same goes for Sword.Nerfing melee damage is saying “don’t use it.” It’s the same mistake as with DB. Sword was built around close-range and low health.it required specific damage combinations for each classes. so lunge was 140.

[sweet thistle]

It needs to be at least 125 damage for the lunge.

Nobody plays it anymore

They nerf niche weapons like that but keep boring assault rifles and smgs as meta

[slender bear]

At this point, I'm getting greedy, and I just want more stuff on light. What if we got a content layout similar to season 5, where we got a medium weapon, a light gadget, and heavy got one of each. My idea is to give light a new spec and a new gadget, while medium could get it's first new gadget since season 2 and heavy could get a new weapon.

I also wouldn't mind getting just a spec on light if it was something deployable with a hitbox, like guardian turret on medium.

[sand monolith]

I don’t think people say this anymore

Light is just poorly designed and only works because of stupidly strong utility

[near scroll]

they still say it's the weakest class (not sure if true, just saying)

[sand monolith]

All around it definitely is

[near scroll]

can you describe what you mean by "only works bc of stupidly strong utility"?

[sand monolith]

In high elo light is only strong because of gadgets

Gateway, glitch, etc

[near scroll]

wouldn't that apply to the other classes too though? like i get your point but still

[slender bear]

I don't think it's the objective worst (I can't say for sure what is, but it's either heavy or light), It just demands a lot more mechanical skill. They also said in a patch note a while back that it has the worst performance overall across all tiers of play, so there's at least some truth to it being the worst performance wise.

[sand monolith]

Yes but I mean that’s lights only strong point. It doesn’t perform well in combat. But the gadgets counter a ton of stuff

[slender bear]

Defib alone gets more value than light's whole kit in high elo.

[sand monolith]

Not really

Defib is sometimes not even used in high elo because it’s so punishable

[near scroll]

light having the worst performance overall is a bad stat tho
light's the most picked class, especially in casual gamemodes, while being extremely punishing compared to medium and heby

[sand monolith]

There’s some good team comps being ran without defib

[slender bear]

Defib has a nearly 100% pick rate for medium players above gold. Some stacks run medium solely for defib. the only gadget you could really argue is more useful in comp is gateway, but plug meta is basically dead at this point, especially when meedium still has access to team movement as well.

[sand monolith]

Defib has such a high pick rate because it’s comfort food. Incredibly easy to use and get value out of. But its value is very limited and easy to punish. There’s good ruby stacks that don’t use defib at all and learned to play without it

Scrims especially almost every res is a slow res

[near scroll]

i mean comp THE FINALS™️ isn't the same game let's be honest, we have a TF2 situation on our hands

[sand monolith]

Only cause of matchmaking but yeah

[near scroll]

it's true i exaggerated, it's not that bad but i still think there's a huge disconnect between ranked and comp

[sand monolith]

The hard truth is that the best of the best in this game still aren’t very good. There aren’t enough good players to push each other forward

[near scroll]

yeah fair

comp is still played on a final round format right?

[sand monolith]

Just depends on who’s hosting. Occasionally they do ko rounds

Why? Probably because they hate themselves or something

[near scroll]

interesting. i should maybe watch more of it, do you have any yt channels to reccommend?
also on a related side note, i'm unsure how good a fit it is for comp but jesus christ do i hate final round in ranked

[sand monolith]

If you join the pro hubs discord they link comp streams all the time

[near scroll]

maps aren't adapted, objective spawns are atrocious, fighting becomes more important than playing obj therefore pokefest...

[sand monolith]

Also yeah final round sucks and feels unfinished

[exotic skiff]

Cashout is not comp at all

[near scroll]

and there's no tension anymore cuz 90%+ of the time u're already up 🤷‍♂️

[exotic skiff]

it's the worse gamemode ever

[sand monolith]

Yeah that’s why this games casual to competitive player ratio is awful

[exotic skiff]

Even ranked doesn't mean shit you can be decent and win 90% of ur games

[sand monolith]

The only people who play this game seriously are the people who genuinely just adore the game and can look past all of its flaws

[exotic skiff]

And nothing is comp about the game people are just trying what they can. And final round is the best by FAR !

[sand monolith]

My nuclear take is 5v5 cashout would save the ranked scene and if they tried it instead of terminal attack in s3 then people would have liked it

[exotic skiff]

here all the vod https://www.twitch.tv/prohubstf/videos

[near scroll]

thanks

[exotic skiff]

Some team are good some are ok compare to other

But it's hard to rlly know what the best of the best

Even some comp player doesn't think the same and some other think they are the best for some reason and say that everything they don't believe is false

[amber ermine]

team bricked and ams, although hf is the scariest when it comes to pure damage and domination, but ams and bricked team synergy is next level

[sand monolith]

It’s insane embark is hosting a major with cashout this bad

Hopefully it goes poorly and pushes them to fix the mode

[near scroll]

i'm just sad embark didn't experiment more with the mode, like WT was presented among other things as a way to try out balance changes for cashout before it's return to ranked

why didn't they keep experimenting? try out different ways to distribute the money upon interacting with the objectives, try to rework final round a bit, all that you know

[sand monolith]

Cause they think it’s in a good spot lol

They keep saying in dev notes that they think the game is in a good state

[near scroll]

either way i'll still play ranked and have fun with it. i do think cashout is good for online ranked matchmaking tho

[amber ermine]

a new cenimatic mode where u can't see where the vault and cashouts at would be fun, you'll just have teams running around like it's some sort of hide and seek

[near scroll]

i mean sadly this has to be due to corporate higher-ups. i have no doubt if they have unlimited time and money they would definitely try more things

[sand monolith]

Nah rob is one of the highest up (I think he co-owns the company) and he’s a genuinely cool guy that wants the best for the game. All the Easter egg stuff in the game is done by him and a few others in their free time.

It is unfortunately just incompetency in balancing

They think the whole game is balanced well overall

[near scroll]

i meant nexon sorry

[sand monolith]

Oh maybe

Nexon is super silent so that could be it. I’ve always thought nexon was the reason why we got TA ranked

[near scroll]

also yeah their team is good at finding the issues but they dont always propose good balance changes to fix those sadly

[near scroll]

i don't see why less than a year in embark would want to do that yeah, seems nonsensical

[sand monolith]

This is the worst

Seeing them nerf the strengths and buff the weaknesses of weapons with trade offs is so bad

[near scroll]

sword died for dash's sins 😔

[slender bear]

I don't even know how they can balance dash at this point. It's useless without the charges and low cd, but it's also useful in literally every situation. I guess they could have made it so you can't use items while dashing, which wouldn't remove too much utility while giving it clear drawbacks like ttk drops and canceling lunge/backstab.

[plain harness]

man fuck the grenade launcher

[near scroll]

i feel like this game suffers a lot from the generalist vs specialist thing, like dash is just applicable everywhere all the time, no duh its gonna be overpicked

[sacred cypress]

Did we get any S7 leaks?

[plush harbor]

None officially but there’s stuff floating out there

[spark igloo]

They gotta just start trying random shit atp

[restive plover]

No using items + no reloading during dash would make sense. Maybe a 0.25 sec delay after the dash as well?

[spark igloo]

Canceling other animations would just kill all light melees and make the spec feel like shit to play so not that

[plush harbor]

Unless you keep dash’s momentum afterwards would that change be “justified”

[placid slate]

Could do some stupid shit like balancing it separately for melees and guns

[restive plover]

I posed that for non-melee weapons. I think it makes sense to let melee weapons charge

[spark igloo]

This would make it a lot easier to balance the melees but it would get kinda messy

[placid slate]

Messy but fair

[spark igloo]

I still want to see something like the super dash bug implemented

Idk how they'd make that fair but ts was so fun

[placid slate]

Eat all your charges?

[plush harbor]

i made a macro for it 🥶

[spark igloo]

Maybe

Light is just so poorly designed

[supple perch]

Man it's true. Like competitive is balanced an interesting but I don't necessarily want to commit to ranked. But cash out only having one cashbox makes it sweat clusterfuck. So I play every other mode except those

[spark igloo]

It's the only class where you need your spec to do literally anything

[sand monolith]

And somehow the only class without a good spec

[plush harbor]

wait true

[sand monolith]

Wait that’s what you meant

[spark igloo]

Medium is also poorly designed because the devs have no idea what it does or what they want it to do

[placid slate]

It's really funny that the stealth spec is actively a detriment to sneaking due to how loud it is

[sand monolith]

I came to the realization that light and medium completely swapped places

[spark igloo]

Yeah

[plush harbor]

Anyone know what the medium gadget is next szn i know the other two I think but not med

[sand monolith]

Light is viable because of gadgets and util and medium sweeps the game with damage

[spark igloo]

Heavy is the only decently designed class and even then the devs haven't realized that and continuing to make heavy worse for all the wrong reasons

I guess they finally got the S1 feedback

[placid slate]

It's also pretty funny that sledge is taking over pro league rn

[spark igloo]

I mean yeah

That's what happens when you repeatedly buff winch and nerf sa12

[sand monolith]

If you told me in cb1 that we would have a sledge meta after 6 seasons then I wouldn’t have put 1k hours into this game

[spark igloo]

LOL

Winch sledge and console lights

My favourite meta! Who could've seen this coming...

[sand monolith]

This game is unironically so disappointing because its potential is easily higher than any other fps on the market

[placid slate]

It isn't even winch that's causing it, it's CQC and goo spam making tight spaces

[spark igloo]

Thats a big part but imo thats just playing to strengths of sledge. Thats fine if you dont have winch enabling you in every other situation

I find that a lot less annoying than just getting grabbed and instakilled from 13m away

At least imo

[placid slate]

Sledge is gonna be copping a nerf if the devs weren't talking out their ass in the sword dev notes

[spark igloo]

Yeah instead of doing the logical thing and dealing with the spec removing all of it's downsides

[placid slate]

Honestly I think that spear should straight up have a better ttk than sledge in most situations since sledge has utility

[spark igloo]

Spear shouldn't exist in the first place imo

[placid slate]

It's a more fair version of sledge

[plush harbor]

nonono you’re clearly thinking about this incorrectly
Spear should instead hit through walls with its spin attack

[spark igloo]

That's just because it's terrible

[wooden cairn]

what are you all smoking?

[placid slate]

No one shot combos, but could still be made work regardless

[spark igloo]

Wildfire fumes

[placid slate]

Just up the damage by 5 and its gonna be more competent

[plush harbor]

Copium

[spark igloo]

Not really. There's been one player to play it competitively and he only does that because he likes picking the worst possible option cause he's bored

[placid slate]

Who would that be?

[spark igloo]

Troop (StopResisting)

[placid slate]

Sorry if I mislead you but I meant that it could be buffed without giving it one shot combos

[slender bear]

The no performing actions thing makes sense, but not along with the delay. I feel like it has to be one or the other.

[placid slate]

He's been gone for several seasons

[spark igloo]

Oh yeah definitely

My ideal spear outcome is that winch and spear get combined and the weapon is just

[wooden cairn]

just stay out of melee range and you'll win every fight you get into, add onto that the util we have in the game to lock people down or just stick with your team and melt them.

[spark igloo]

Yeah ik he's my buddy

[placid slate]

Like holding left cluck to throw winch?

[wooden cairn]

that could be fun

[spark igloo]

Winch would be the right click or an R ability

[wooden cairn]

and if we are combining weapons why not combine throwing knifes and the dagger?

[spark igloo]

I want to see all the melees reworked with R abilities

[placid slate]

No sane person wants to remove winch throwing unless you move the spin to a different button, which would be fine since right click winch would be pretty comfortable

[spark igloo]

Winch throw could be built in idk. It's not to removal winch throw it's just to rework the weapon

[spark igloo]

Idk about that one

[placid slate]

Yea I misread, right click for winch, reload for spin would work

[shell sonnet]

spin attack should be continous and only for as long as held, just make tapping primary and holding fire the spin attack

[wooden cairn]

I think it could be fun and mix up the play style a bit by giving a weapon a kind of hybrid of range and melee

[spark igloo]

It would be cool but it would defeat the purpose of dagger as weapon

[wooden cairn]

how so?

[placid slate]

Honestly, the spear throw suggestions are some of the most godawful things I've every seen, not only because they are incapable of not removing the spin, they also in 90% of the case fail to not make it a shitty ks23 with a bayonet on the end

[spark igloo]

Daggers in games are high risk high reward backstab or nothing weapons usually

Giving it a net like throwing knives kinda just defeats the point

[spark igloo]

The throw could be cool if it impaled and winched the guy...

[shell sonnet]

what if we made spear bigger
like longer range

its something youd expect a spear to be capable off, and allows them to fight off sledge by keeping range

[placid slate]

I'd be fine ish with the throw if literally any of them had a single braincells and didn't remove the spin for it

[placid slate]

Nah, I want 20m of winch and a faster draw in speed so j can give sledge players a concussion by throwing them into the nearest map border

[spark igloo]

Yeah. I think the spin would have to be toned down but outright removed is dumb

[shell sonnet]

how would you even tone the spin down?
doing it in the right spot or even just accidentally can often end up a death sentence

its only really effective against close range lights or when ambushing the objective

[placid slate]

Pretty lethal if you catch (or force) an mf into a corner

[shell sonnet]

i mean, pretty much anything becomes a lot more dangerous if the enemy cant escape or effectively dodge

[spark igloo]

Give the user more control of the spin in exchange for slightly less range or smth idk.

[shell sonnet]

i mean, currently it seems to sometimes hit outside its animation (might be desync tho)
wouldnt mind it thaaaat much

[vague monolith]

If the spear didn't need the quick melee, and the m2 didn't have to do the full animation every time it would be fine. If that winds up being too strong you could make it have a sweet spot at the end of the spear if the m2 is too spammable to make up for the thought you no longer have to put into when the animation ends

[short frost]

The real issue I’ve had with the spear is mainly the spin animation. I’ve actually enjoyed using it but the spin feels off…

[modern copper]

for the spear its the third spin animation, that i have a pb with

[drowsy osprey]

Preach

[placid slate]

the thrid spin is a longer animation than the first 2 combined

[shell sonnet]

i wouldnt mind if every hit of the animation was a bit slower if i wasnt forced to always do the whole 3 step thing

[slender bear]

They could turn spear into the first melee/ranged hybrid weapon by turning it's alt into a javelin toss. That would certainly give it a niche among melee weapons, and it could have something like 140 damage and bow's charge up + fire rate.

[placid slate]

why not just put the toss on a seperate button to the spin?

[slender bear]

They could either replace the rmb or the lmb, so they either replace the spin or the swing combo.

[modern copper]

Question to you guys :
What makes you think MGL needs a rework ? I play it a fair amount and for me its in a niche but great place. The point i would see upgraded is the grenades detonating on impact on players. A part from that is seems balanced for me

[placid slate]

There are plenty of button not used by melees

[slender bear]

Not on console.
There's one button on the d-pad that my controller doesn't have bound.

[placid slate]

Reload

[wide onyx]

I need For Honor in The Finals tbh

But yeah if the devs are still unhappy with winch so that they wish to remove it from the game.

Simply forcing it onto Spear and replacing the spec with a new one could be possible lol.

But just giving Spear a nerfed version of winch could be cool. But maybe a little nutty if you could have 2 winches essentially

[plush harbor]

Winch doesn’t fit the game as it is currently implemented

it breaks too many things and causes way too many problems

[slender bear]

Fair enough

[wide onyx]

What does it break?

[spark igloo]

Ohh they're very happy with winch. But they also haven't figured out the ranked meta despite literal months of data and people complaining about the same handful of weapons

[plush harbor]

too many things

[wide onyx]

Like?

[plush harbor]

Don’t ask me to elaborate

[wide onyx]

Lol ok

[ashen oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-trapped-kitten-speech-bubble-gif-25553629

I'm curious as well

[slender bear]

I also just don't think it should have 3 different attack options unless they give a third one to every other melee in the game. I would prefer having selectable alt attacks, so you could choose whether you want lmb to be the spin attack or the throw.

[wide onyx]

Wish I could use 20meter winch again

[languid palm]

Give grapple an extra charge

[amber ermine]

bro ts ain't spiderman far from cashout

[north perch]

what reserver should i swap for lockbolt. goo??

[amber ermine]

flashbang and barricade

or flashbang and goo nade

[shell sonnet]

Goo nade is a lot more flexible imo
Also has certain other upsides

[warped radish]

goo grenade my beloved

[lapis field]

G36C for medium

Or F2000 for faster fire rate ar with like 32 bullets

[north perch]

medium isnt supposed to have a specialty beyond general support

[north perch]

why would i swap thedm both off??

[magic mortar]

I've got a question regarding the riot shield if someone that knows it wouldn't mind answering.

In quick cash, or any mode really, is there a way to have a pistol and the riot shield over the baton? Saw someone running it in a match like a week ago, and just now looked up the riot shield on Google and couldn't see anything regarding it?

[slender bear]

I'm betting heavy gets it's 5th spec before light gets a new one lol

[amber ermine]

first of all, for what mode u want this laodout? if it's for ranked then u should be going for meshsheild with the shak c4 lockbolt or rpg and dome shield

[slender bear]

Riot shield is melee only as far as I know

[north perch]

half the people i talk to say c4 isnt viable at all and the other half say its a starting gadget. so idk how to feel about it lol

[amber ermine]

having barricade most of the time would make u used to playing more static which would also put u in more danger

[amber ermine]

go watch bizzy on YouTube

[north perch]

i know how to use c4 im just not sure if its actually worth using

[magic mortar]

Hmm.. sus... because it was the only time I've seen it (Granted I just started like three weeks ago) but it struck me as odd because it was OP with a pistol. Didn't think to clip the exchange unfortunately...

[amber ermine]

if non of ur teammates have a stalling gadget for when enemies steal ur cashout then yeah the c4 is a must

[north perch]

does that include mines?

[amber ermine]

yes

[slender bear]

Is it possible someone was shooting at you from behind the riot shield user? That seems a little high effort for someone to hack into the game.

[north perch]

most my mediums run demat so wouldnt that count

[magic mortar]

I was facing the guy with the riot as he was shooting me with a pistol in his other hand from like... twelve meters away.

[north perch]

he probably just had a skin on and was using v9s or sm

[ocean harness]

what u guys think r the best light weapons

[slender bear]

I hope we get another CNS themed season. They're the only ones who seem to bring interesting stuff to the finals

[north perch]

54

[magic mortar]

Isn't that the light silence pistol. Because it's what it looked like but the riot shield is a medium only thing... right?

[radiant orbit]

Add the L-Star from Titanfall 2 unchanged thanks. Couldn’t care less which class it goes on.

[north perch]

is winch worth using over mesh

[radiant orbit]

Totally depends on your loadout and playstyle.

[north perch]

hm i could try both but i dont want to remove my charnge profile on heavy so i dont have slots

[spark igloo]

Right now it kinda just does everything

[north perch]

exactly

[exotic skiff]

try to have weapons on the reserve to adapt

[wide onyx]

I'd swap flash

I never use them myself. With that gone my loadout would be 1:1 with yours

[wide onyx]

For sure yeah

With a coordinated team mesh shield could be good

But by yourself you'll probably preform better with a winch

And coordinated winches can be just as good or better than mesh

[restive plover]

Run flame thrower and winch....those lights will never be fast enough to outrun the embers...

ENIGMO ON TOP 💪 🔥 👈

[proven thorn]

Does someone mind teaching me light a little bit tomorrow at 5 for 20 bucks

[final robin]

can we nerf turrets so each team can only have one turret 😢

[misty elbow]

would swap the flash

[halcyon zenith]

I truly don't get the cerberus
It's either a 2 shot at 15 meters
Or 3 hitmarkers at 3 meters

What don't I know? XD

[crimson nimbus]

The Real issue is whinng from noobs who struggle against Lights or something. Stop nerf. Just buff underperforming and unfairly nerfed weapons.

If the Sword’s lunge doesn’t go back to 140 damage,it’s just useless.If it’s under 140,you can’t use it against Medium or Heavy at all.That value was carefully calculated and made sense in terms of balance.

Everyone knows Dagger,Sword and all melee get countered by Light.But you nerfed Sword while pretending it was for the sake of Lights, even though it was obviously done to benefit Mediums.
People are tired of these blatant patches made only for Medium.There’s a reason people started saying “The Mediums”.
Heavy is still powerful at close range,so melee isn’t even a threat to them.

Medium has tons of tools to counter melee: turrets, mines, goo grenade, glitch trap, dematerializer, jump pad, zip line, proximity sensor, and a bunch of weapons. And still, these skill-issue players cry for nerfs to melee and weak wepon even though they already have all those tools. They just can’t handle melee because of a skill issue.

I play all class,melee was never a problem when I played Medium or Heavy(not to mention Light).If anything, having melee was a guaranteed win. But because of these dumb whining, stuff that wasn’t even meta got nerfed.That’s how you ruin patches.

If you keep listening to people who ask for nerfs not because something is overpowered,but just because it annoys them(cause skill issue), of course the game will fall apart. And in doing so, you're killing the fun and variety of the game.

About Double Barrel,you nerfed it, then reverted it. Because Light has low HP, so it needs to have high DPS. DB is only viable up close, and it needs to 2-tap Heavy.That balance was correct, so reverted.
The same goes for Sword.Nerfing melee damage is saying “don’t use it.” It’s the same mistake as with DB. Sword was built around close-range and low health.it required specific damage combinations for each classes. so lunge was 140.

[balmy drum]

0_0

[restive plover]

i am a contrarian who loves the MGL, but know 99% of people want it changed. Have embark said they intend to change it? (in which case i need to main it until then just in case i hate any new version)

[acoustic ice]

What’s a good light build that’s good for tdm

[shut bane]

They said a rework but I doubt they’d change the core of it being a wall bounce weapon

If anything I think they’ll only make it detonate in direct impact with an enemy player which would make it somewhat viable close quarters

[restive plover]

Fair enough, yeah i imagine they'd surely want to keep some identity instead of creating an identikit.

[sacred cypress]

What do yall think about a rail gun for heavy, high damaged charged shots when scoped in and when hip firing - a slower fire rate automatic option?

[deep mason]

An RPG skin maybe

[deep mason]

@proud galleon ks23 needs wall penetration more then 2 shot walls

[proud galleon]

fr

[deep mason]

I agree with all other changes u want for KS-23 it's much needed.

U actually have a chance against mini gun mid range

[deep mason]

Some people with light class ar just beams u long range

[trim geyser]

Any build recommendations for goo gun?

[wind folio]

Heavy

[trim geyser]

Humour

[hot light]

Goo as hard as you can! 💦
But jokes aside, you can practice hitting moving targets with goo gun at practice range (it feels a bit weird).

[exotic skiff]

Sword was legit stupid, they nerf thing that require no skill and make you able to have huge impact with it

[young pewter]

Hammer, minigun, and flamethrower all play well with goo gun

[cinder oracle]

loving where the ARN is right now

plus that ospuze skin is killer work, great design

still working on recoil deviation

[near scroll]

goo gun - hammer/spear/flamethrower - rpg - dome - goonade/lockbolt
goo gun - shak/lewis/m60/deagles - rpg - dome - C4/pyro mine
goo gun - minigun - C4 - dome - anti grav

[crimson nimbus]

If it looks easy, you’re watching a master.

The ones calling any weapon "no skill" are the real stupid. You've clearly never played Sword properly. Every weapon requires its own skill set, obviously. If you can’t understand that, there’s no point in talking further.
If it had a huge impact on you, that just means the player using it was skilled. of course it would feel impactful when used well. And if not, then it only felt strong because you're terrible at the game. Could you even pull off that kind of impact with the Sword yourself? Not at all.

[stark pecan]

The Real issue is whinng from noobs who struggle against Lights or something. Stop nerf. Just buff underperforming and unfairly nerfed weapons.

If the Sword’s lunge doesn’t go back to 140 damage,it’s just useless.If it’s under 140,you can’t use it against Medium or Heavy at all.That value was carefully calculated and made sense in terms of balance.

Everyone knows Dagger,Sword and all melee get countered by Light.But you nerfed Sword while pretending it was for the sake of Lights, even though it was obviously done to benefit Mediums.
People are tired of these blatant patches made only for Medium.There’s a reason people started saying “The Mediums”.
Heavy is still powerful at close range,so melee isn’t even a threat to them.

Medium has tons of tools to counter melee: turrets, mines, goo grenade, glitch trap, dematerializer, jump pad, zip line, proximity sensor, and a bunch of weapons. And still, these skill-issue players cry for nerfs to melee and weak wepon even though they already have all those tools. They just can’t handle melee because of a skill issue.

I play all class,melee was never a problem when I played Medium or Heavy(not to mention Light).If anything, having melee was a guaranteed win. But because of these dumb whining, stuff that wasn’t even meta got nerfed.That’s how you ruin patches.

If you keep listening to people who ask for nerfs not because something is overpowered,but just because it annoys them(cause skill issue), of course the game will fall apart. And in doing so, you're killing the fun and variety of the game.

About Double Barrel,you nerfed it, then reverted it. Because Light has low HP, so it needs to have high DPS. DB is only viable up close, and it needs to 2-tap Heavy.That balance was correct, so reverted.
The same goes for Sword.Nerfing melee damage is saying “don’t use it.” It’s the same mistake as with DB. Sword was built around close-range and low health.it required specific damage combinations for each classes. so lunge was 140.

[exotic skiff]

Sword require 0 skill to play

[near scroll]

"your bait is so low tier i can't even mute you"

[exotic skiff]

it is not a bait, it's not because ur dashing that it require skill to use

[near scroll]

define "skill" for me

[crimson nimbus]

blah blah.
The weapon you play requires 0 skill to play.

[exotic skiff]

something that require a lot of work and ability to be playing well, and be impactfull

[north perch]

125 is under 140

140 too op

[exotic skiff]

I just saw ur bio, polytopia is goated teach me

[north perch]

Ok I will

[north perch]

https://share.polytopia.io/l/01201559-fd1a-43fd-b8a4-f318f6331d9e

[autumn stratus]

Is there a spreadsheet that has all the gun stats like TTK, fire rate, weapon dmg, etc?

[exotic skiff]

i play on phone ahah

that was a joke, but i rlly like the game tbf i used to play a lot with my friend

[near scroll]

both melees and guns require good micro, and both also require good macro
maybe guns require more micro (and even then, arguable as guns don't require as many inputs as melee does) and melee require more macro (also arguable), either way who cares melee is definitely not no skill and if you genuinely think it is, then it's a you problem of only considering aim as a "skill", at which point you should probably play another game

[north perch]

You can join a link on phone

[exotic skiff]

maybe later not now but thx for saying yes, to be fair that was more a joke than anything but i'll see later 🙂

[exotic skiff]

problem is pressing two button to do 140 dmg and just dash around and run away, it's not skilled

[near scroll]

light presses two buttons to do 140 (now 105)
peter medium clicks twice to do 150+

you are actively ignoring every skill that isn't aim, stop baiting bro

[exotic skiff]

pressing button is way easier to just aim

and sword lung hitbox is stupid

[crimson nimbus]

@stone stump
How many Sword users were there in high level ranked or WT? Absolutely barely any.

You know what there were a lot of? Mediums.

Just like nukes, recon senses, and the old FCAR?? Don’t make me laugh, everyone used those. Literally.
Sword? Nope.

Why is there a meltdown over Sword? Skill issue.

[stone stump]

Yes there actually were a good handful in diamond ranked, I still come across some (albeit less) sword users who still top frag with it.

2 shotting mediums and 1 shotting lights on a super janky interaction with the dash and lingering hitbox is not a fun gameplay experience

It’s not a skill issue, it’s a fun issue. The game is healthier overall with nerfed sword

[normal ice]

"the game is healthier now that a weapon is made completely unusable" gtfo

[near scroll]

dashlunge hitbox is stupid indeed. basekit sword lunge is definitely not though

u still need to aim the lunge, if you just "press two buttons" and do not aim you will miss and do 0 dmg, crazy right 🤯
and again, you are ignoring every other form of skill expression that isn't just raw aim

and i think it's stupid to say aim is the only important skill, as it is not a concious skill, it's just muscle memory, there's no active thought in aiming, you just aim and shoot over and over again and slowly get better

you're essentially saying that decision making is not a skill, and that's just silly.

[stone stump]

You don’t understand the logic of broken weapons in games.

One broken/annoying/ or OP weapon affects EVERYONE who has to play against it. One underpowered weapon only affects those who use the weapon themselves.

Greater good = healthier game

[exotic skiff]

I never said aim is the only mechanic but saying "there's no active thought in aiming" like bro cmon

Tell me you don't know how to aim without telling me

[normal ice]

okay, but you wouldn't always have to play against it even when it's popular... and you could always use it yourself.

[stone stump]

But when a sword was in a lobby, it made the entire match less fun - being able to use it yourself is like saying “just use recon senses until the remove it”

@normal ice sword is now actually decent to engage with because it’s not an instant lost fight once they get close to you and you aren’t already set up with mines.

It’s just like how CL40 was OP for a few patches and they nerfed it into D tier - sure I enjoyed using it, but it was objectively annoying to deal with and the weapon needs a rework to be viable but also not annoying

[normal ice]

sorry but I think that's just some cope. did you think it's "making the entire match less fun" because it was a viable strategy that didn't necessitate as much aim, or do you think it's "making the entire less fun" because you genuinely think it was OP?

[normal ice]

no, even with old Sword, you had multiple tools to get away from or out-TTK a Light that jumps on you with a lunge

[umbral belfry]

Im emerald 3 how many wins do i need for e1

[normal ice]

and I'm gonna say it, CL-40 honestly wasn't even OP, either

low skill floor, but not as much reward in higher skill lobbies

[stone stump]

It was a JANKY and un-fun interaction, doesn’t matter if it was objectively strong (in skilled hands it was 100% OP, but most players don’t fit that category)

[stone stump]

Exactly! It WASNT objectively OP, but it was ANNOYING and made the game frustrating, which drives players away

[normal ice]

okay let's break this down

1. how was it janky? what did they change to make it not janky?
2. no, Sword was not "100% OP" unless you and your teammates were hugging eachother on low ground so Light could easily hit all 3 of you without return fire. you can see with the meta right now that current DB has always killed people faster than Sword

[normal ice]

I'd like to understand what exactly was/is annoying about it

[stone stump]

It’s just based on feel and it was 2 seasons ago, not giving a full write up - I’m a fan of the weapon but 1-2 of them on each team in tourney got old fast

[normal ice]

well at least we share some common ground, I like CL-40 too lol

idk I'm just tired of 50% of players being Mediums and 50% of Mediums running some assault rifle

[normal ice]

2400 Win Points for Emerald 1

[autumn stratus]

If there is not a spreadsheet, would patch notes be the best source of information to try and build that?

[stone stump]

Agree that variety is better and I’d like to see more, hell I’ve been begging for riot shield buffs for a year now lol

[slender bear]

I'm betting HydraQ sponsors the next LTM, featuring squirt guns and slip n' slides!

[near scroll]

what do you actively think about while you're aiming???
you eyes register, the brain processes, and your body does the movements

there's not even time to think, like what?

[crimson nimbus]

@pine kiln
"Light pops an invis and kills the medium with DB ALONE and zips away with a grapple before the other light and heavy inflicts enough damage."

??? That means using Vanishing Bomb, but do you have bad eyes and ears or what? He literally announces when he’s coming, yet you don’t see it? Invis is damn visible right now. I can tell how bad you really are.

Why is it that scenarios from people like you always only have a noob team versus a pro Light? Of course bad Lights don’t play Light anymore, so only pro Lights are left. You try playing Light. do it. you’d just be terrible at it anyway.

[exotic skiff]

you need to focus on the target ur actively using ur brain and thinking are you crazy ?

[near scroll]

what thoughts are going through your head at that time???
"oh he's moving left, now he's going righ- oh wait he's ded, ok next opponent"

that's not what you think about, you think about what you're gonna do before and after taking the gunfight

[exotic skiff]

you're not conscious about it but ur thinking during the entire process. aiming is a good coordination between ur eyes and ur hand. Your brain is doing the coordination, you need to be fully focus to aim well. When you do insane aiming you will be in the "zone" and I can tell you beeing in this zone is exhausting because your brain is actively working

[near scroll]

brain working =/= actively thinking
that's my whole point bro 😭

[exotic skiff]

You said when you are aiming ur not thinking about it and just think about what you gonna do next

is just wrong you are focus on the target if you are thinking about something else you're just gonna aim poorlly

[near scroll]

i said there's no active thought about aiming, not that aiming requires no brainpower

there's no time to conciously make descisions in the middle of a gunfight, it's split seconds instinctual decision making

[exotic skiff]

the active thought is before and after if even tho you are thinking during it but that ur unconscious that do it

[near scroll]

yeah that's what i've been saying brother
"there's no active thought in aiming"
"you think about what you're gonna do before and after taking the gunfight"

[crimson nimbus]

Sword and all melee obviously require skill. Since you can’t poke from a distance, you have to move much more efficiently than with guns. To use melee, you absolutely need good movement skills, timing for when to engage, and positioning skills. On the other hand, guns can be used from range and obviously up close as well. People who say that real skill is just shooting from a high ground are seriously stupid — what kind of thinking does that even take?

That said, both guns and melee require skill. There’s no such thing as a no-skill weapon.

[raw cave]

cl40 and flamethrower

[near scroll]

if you give an average aimer the CL they'll have a harder time than most the guns in this game i reckon ngl

also CL users have to learn how to dodge all the hate they get

[raw cave]

where can i suggest a weapon skin? I can't in discord, it seems to be requiring level to send images

[near scroll]

try #🔴┇media-chat

[coral root]

Those arent no-skill, theyre low-skill

[knotty osprey]

I would love to see boxing gloves in s7

[untold pilot]

Would really like to see a lockbolt mine device for medium which could trap 1 player for maybe 2 seconds or something, would be more useful and encourage team work/shielding if a player gets stuck entering a room 🤔

[sand monolith]

I mean yeah the game is healthier without sword in it

It’s an unhealthy weapon that needs a rework

[boreal laurel]

Flamethrower needs skill to kill anyone without dying from its own low DPS. Sure lights are free kills but heavies force you to actually use your head

[crimson nimbus]

What you call “unhealthy”?
You’re just calling it that because you’re upset that you’re bad at it.
It’s just that you can’t handle melee weapons.
That’s not unhealthy, it’s your skill issue.
It wasn’t a problem when I was dealing with it, so maybe try using your brain.

[arctic zodiac]

Sword is a cancer. Its not functional with the games current ticrate. So yes its not "healthy" in its current state and im pretty sure Embark is aware of that.

[sand monolith]

Lets go over all the reasons why sword is unhealthy instead of just assuming

1. Multihit: Consistent multihit on a primary weapon forces players to stay away from their teammates. This (for obvious reasons) is unhealthy for a team based game. Occasional multihit/AOE like with rpg or lockbolt is fine because it can be baited out or negated entirely, but full uptime multihit is inherently unhealthy.

2. Low requirement for aim: Although aiming is far from the only skill required in FPS games, weapons that take less skill to aim with are generally made up for by being for more intensive on positioning, like the cl40. Unfortunately, sword's insane movement means most of the positioning is done for you. Despite being a melee weapon, swords required positioning plan boils down to "dont be in the open, dont contest highground directly."

3. Minimal downtime: Unlike other melee weapons, sword has almost no downtime. Dagger takes multiple cooldowns to get value out of, sledge hinges on winch and defensive cooldowns to stay active during a fight, sword can be active for 99% of a fight and is only on downtime if the user makes a mistake, there is virtually no way to force a sword into downtime. One defensive superdash has as much value as multiple dashes + goo on dagger. Sword has to use zero util to enter a fight and zero util to leave a fight. Gadgets are optional and reactionary.

So no, its not a "skill issue" I'm not bad at sword I actually think the weapon is incredibly easy to play and the most lame melee weapon in the game. Maybe try using your brain and picking apart how the weapon functions in gameplay rather than thinking "oh i like this weapon so it must be healthy because its fun to play."

[north perch]

Chatgpt

[sand monolith]

i dont think chatgpt can do detailed analysis of the finals meta from multiple patches ago

[north perch]

Ai

[sand monolith]

true!

[north perch]

Deepseek

[north perch]

Diidheshhehahajsnfbsns

Ajejej

IIIIIIIIIIIiaiiiiiii8i

[slender bear]

I still don't think sword was actually that much of a problem. Both sword and sledge stood out for being the only melee weapons in the game with viability, and both were only strong because they played to their class's strengths.
Sledge is strong because players are forced to engage with them on objective, often forcing situations that are favorable for the sledgehammer player thanks to heavy's defensive capabilities. Heavy also has winch to pull enemies into range, or mesh shield to shrug off ranged attacks.
Sword had good chasing capabilities, with ttk that was better than most melee weapons and a little bit of extra mobility from lunge. You could actually close gaps because light has tools like dash and grapple, negating one of the major drawbacks of melee weapons as a whole. It was also notably hard to hit (the whole point of playing light) thanks to the lunge's movement. Sword's multihit was the only mechanic that was potentially unfair, as it was effectively a self-centered rpg with 140 damage and no damage stages.
Both weapons played very well with their classes' strengths, but sword ultimately got gutted because light is more annoying to deal with than heavy.
Gutting a weapon's damage to solve other issues doesn't make any sense. The problem was the multihit, so they could have either given it damage stages like rpg or removed it's ability to hit multiple people entirely. Everything else could be chalked up to frustrations involving light as a whole. The damage nerf was nothing but a band aid fix meant to deter people from playing the weapon while they figured things out.

[raw cave]

not working

[raw cave]

and i cant send it on reddit, it's getting deleted by moderators

[slender bear]

I personally think little bit of multihit was necessary since enemies had to be on your screen to take damage. I think they could have spread out the 140 damage across three parts of the sword's hitbox, so you had to hit a point blank lunge with all three hitboxes connecting to deal full damage. Even better, they could split it into two, with the longer ranged hitbox allowing for consistent 105 damage lunges, but the shorter one wouldn't have multihit and would allow for single target 140 damage lunges at closer range (think 1m away).

[polar trout]

Makes sense, honestly. Just have a sweet spot at the beginning for 140, meaning people don't complain about the sword being wiggles around n shi

[rare hound]

WT

[graceful nova]

Do you think the dematerializer should be able to demat the powershift platform

Data reshaper should be able to change the powershift platform cosmetically into something funny

[ashen hawk]

Guys I finally figured out the worst weapon in the game and u wont believe what it is

The Worst Weapon in the Game is ||me ||

||On a serious note ||we should something about MGL32 if Embark hasn't already.

[placid slate]

mgl is fine, just doesnt click for most people

[ashen hawk]

its really underpowered tbh. ive done some pretty good clutches and admittedly its hard to use, but then again theres other stuff like goo gun thats pretty brainpowr-requiring that lots of ppl thrive with (granted its not a weapon)

[placid slate]

there are plenty of weapons that would need a touch up before mgl would be at the bottom of the barrel

[sweet thistle]

Sword needs a buff. Back to how it was before latest nerf. Was not overpowered. Easy to counter.

[slender bear]

At this point I think they should just revert sword to how it was at launch. Back then it wasn't horribly weak and theres no way people could complain about it being too strong.

[placid slate]

wasnt that pre multihit?

[slender bear]

It always had multihit, but back then it had a shorter lunge range and 140 damage.

[clever sleet]

yeah... i been using the stick skin on the sword since they nerfed it, now it feels right to use it knowing its nothing but a week branch

[placid slate]

did they not touch the sword until season 4 or is the wiki incorrect

[slender bear]

Idk tbh. I don't remember there being any sword changes other than QOL and lunge duration/range buffs and nerfs.

[placid slate]

if it was only changed in seaosn 4 +, it would essentially only be losing a meter of lunge for its damage back

[slender bear]

It was considered one of the weakest weapons until it got the range buffs, so I see no problem. Reverting it back to when it was weak would basically fix our bandaid solution and remove whatever made it strong in the first place. Nothing really changed that made sword that strong, it's still a weak weapon. It's just that dash became the only viable spec and sword happens to work well with dash. If anything dash should have gotten the nerf, considering it's so dominant in light's meta.

[boreal laurel]

I used sword back then and it felt fine to me. I certainly wouldn’t mind if they went that route. On a similar note they should probably do the same with XP-54–it was fine on launch

[flat fern]

Idea charged shot gun 4 heavy it has two shotguns but the Ks barely counts

[sand monolith]

Yeah the solution isn’t a good one and it needs an eventual rework but the point is that the game is overall healthier when the current iteration of sword isn’t strong

Which I think is very hard to deny

[slender bear]

I've definitely seen less discourse in the community, although I can't say it's affected my gameplay enough to say so. Now I just feel bad every time I murk a sword player who normally would have had a chance.
I'm absolutely fine with there being less instakill options against light in the game, I just think sword was near the bottom of the list of those options that needed a change.
I think it was a little unhealthy, but at the same time I think sword should still have a faster ttk than all the guns that have 10x the range.

[slender bear]

Maybe HydraQ will give us a water bottle grenade skin.
I'm hoping medium gets a healing grenade, and turning it into a water bottle is just perfect.

[magic mortar]

One bad part about demat is you can't see what's on the other side of wall before activating... like two heavies from another team... big oof

[slender bear]

Doesn't that apply to all forms of breaching?

[coral widget]

https://www.twitch.tv/un1_fps/clip/EnticingYawningPepperoniKippa-cBUT3xaqA0aJ3hF1

[magic mortar]

True but demat no boom

[slender bear]

The explosion from other things only gives away your position, and you can't close broken walls to get away.

[merry imp]

Love the model but can't use it because I spend the entire match reloading

[rare hound]

y

[dreamy prawn]

like what

[main axle]

eliminate CL-40 IS A PATHETIC WEAPON FOR PATHIC PATHIC PLAYERS WOULD NOT BE IN THE GAME AND EMBARK IS SO MEDIOCRE THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO BALANCE it

[normal ice]

1. Multihit and slight extra mobility are the identifying features of the weapon. Those are the reasons Sword would ever be chosen over other weapons. Removing multihit is bad. And no, having weapons that punish players for being a little extra grouped up is not "unhealthy." It's a common feature in other FPSs. It's just a way to help counter handyholdy, deathball compositions like triple shotgun, multiple healbeams, multiple melees, or meatshielding in general. Do you want to remove the grenade launchers, Spear, and Flamethrower, too, even though those are ALL also weapons that generally suck?
2. It's not just about positioning. Sword forces you to be more map-knowledgeable and be better at movement in general to get the maximum out the weapon. It also takes more aim to get multihits or quick melee finishes than it might look. And the positioning is more complicated than you let on, because you also have to consider from which angle and exactly when you will engage. It's more than just "don't be out in the open," because even when it had 140 damage, there were MANY ways to kill or disengage from Sword even when they got the jump on you with 140 damage.
3. No, bro, Sword relies on cooldowns just as much as Dagger does. The extra distance on a dash+lunge helps close longer gaps, but the lunge itself gives you nearly nothing. Plus, said extra distance is mostly for closing or creating gaps -- it doesn't help dodge that much better because you're still traveling in a straight line. And saying a superdash is more value than placing a WALL behind you is absurd.

I will concede that when a weapon is truly OP and makes other strategies obsoleted, that's unhealthy for the game. That is not what Sword was at all. It was just a different playstyle

[normal ice]

CL-40 is not overpowered. Learn to position around it and dodge it properly.

[lunar hare]

Sleeping dart 🎯

[sand monolith]

this is just wrong on every level lol

i think its pretty obvious why multihit on flamethrower and cl40 are different

cl-40 AOE can be used to punish the user, flamethrower is on the slowest class with no range

[slender bear]

I'm betting we get a HydraQ recolor of the soak n' scorch flamethrower set

[sand monolith]

and sword does NOT rely on cooldowns as much as dagger does lol

thats objectively wrong ask literally any dagger player or even just look at any good dagger gameplay

[normal ice]

Your argument was that having high multihit uptime on a weapon is bad for the game in general. The other weapons I mentioned fit this category. You saying Flamethower and CL-40 are "different" multihits doesn't make them not multihits, and if I'm being quite honest, I think you only draw an arbitrary distinction for them because they don't accent movement. Don't move the goalpost.

[normal ice]

Fine, maybe not literally "as much." Depending on the opponents' aim, you can get a bit more dodging with base Sword than base Dagger. But it's still cooldown dependent. I'd say like 75% as dependent as Dagger is

[sand monolith]

its not moving the goalpost, theyre not high uptime

flamethrower only has uptime if youre close, cl-40 only has uptime if youre in that mid range sweet spot. also, neither of these weapons are kept good ever? none of them have ever been as viable as 140 damage sword besides maybe the one week of mega cl40

do you think the game would be more fun if those weapons were strong enough to be meta?

i dont think many people would agree with that

[normal ice]

I mean, if you want to say the high uptime only occurs under specific conditions, you could say the same thing about Sword. Sword only has multihit uptime if you're close AND have dashes off cooldown.

[normal ice]

There's a difference between "viable" and "meta." Personally, I think as far as the skill ceiling for the game goes:

Sword was a viable option for punishing grouped-up team compositions, NOT meta. (And a lot of its old power was owed to bugs, not 140 damage itself.)
CL-40 was never viable.
Flamethrower was never viable.

[sand monolith]

which is very often

sword has most definitely been a part of the meta before the nerf

it was an incredible teamfight tool. arguably a direct upgrade to matter depending on the scenario lol

[normal ice]

that's an oxymoron, sorry. "Direct upgrade depending on the scenario" means it's not a direct upgrade to Matter and Matter still had use

[sand monolith]

its not really, "in certain scenarios, sword was a direct upgrade"

and a good amount of them

[normal ice]

okay whatever we're just arguing over semantics you get the point

[sand monolith]

the only thing matter could do better was poke/icefish

[normal ice]

Now that Sword's bugs are mostly patched and Nullifier is in, I'd really be interested to see it be reverted to 140 damage and see if you still think that it's "meta." But I hope you at least agree it needs a buff at the moment

[sand monolith]

it, alongisde dash, need a rework

sword needs to be something besides lunge spam, which is an oversimplification obviously but i think you get the point

more interesting combat would be nice and more depth outside of breakpoints

[normal ice]

imho Sword was already one of the most interesting weapons in the game

it had a lot more functionality than just left click at the head lol

and I don't mean the bugs

[ocean harness]

cerberus overrated why r people using it

[slender bear]

"Flamethrower only has uptime if you're close"
Wait till you hear what the main drawback on sword is 🤣

[clever sleet]

BUFF SWORD BACK TO 140!!!

[sand monolith]

flamethrower is on the slowest class in the game

wait until you hear what class sword is on

[winter jay]

Winch lockbolt

[sand monolith]

please read the whole conversation

[winter jay]

Don’t need to

[normal ice]

heavy can also create and destroy cover at will, unlike Sword

[slender bear]

Doesn't matter when objectives are involved. You literally have to engage.

[sand monolith]

so true bestie sword and flamethrower are both just as good at pushing the objective

[winter jay]

140 is too high yea but 110 to me is reasonable

[normal ice]

125 and it will at least be functional :^)

[winter jay]

110 and it is functional

[sand monolith]

its literally still functional, lights specs just fucking suck

[winter jay]

Just slash + QM

[slender bear]

It was among the weakest weapons in the game back when it had 140 damage and a lunge that was 1m shorter. I don't think sword was the problem in the first place.

[winter jay]

Whatever they do hopefully it happens S7

[sand monolith]

sword was not one of the weakest weapons

[winter jay]

It was the only good melee besides sledge

[slender bear]

Back in season 4, it was really weak so they basically buffed it's range by 1m. After that dash got really popular and people complained because sword worked well with dash. The problem was with dash, not sword.

[sand monolith]

oh you mean back then

dash needs a rework but the issue with dash is that it sucks against competent players and is way too good against casuals, with little to no effort required to use

considering sword was annoying even in high elo, i dont think dash was the only problem

[winter jay]

I really don’t think dash sucks at high elo. There’s a reason the tourneys use only dash

[sand monolith]

tourneys only use dash because cloak was gutted

[slender bear]

I think they should just revert sword to pre 4.0. It sucked back then, but if the problem really is just sword then it would fix the issue even if it has 140 damage.

[winter jay]

It’s just better than the other two

[sand monolith]

none of the light specs are good at all, they all need work

before cloak was eviscerated in 6.0, it was the only light spec used in high elo / comp since s2

[normal ice]

it needs at least 136 for lunge + slash + qm to be lethal against Medium. 125 would only allow double lunge to kill Medium if they don't receive a single point of healing (consider healing barrels). 110 would only allow lunge + qm to kill Light if, again, they don't get a single point of healing

[slender bear]

At 117 it will three shot heavy with lunges, which I think is completely necessary. I feel like the only way to give the weapon a chance with it's current damage would be decreasing the charge time. Ttk against heavy is over 2 seconds right now, which is ridiculous.

[crimson nimbus]

Lunge must be 140dmg. If it’s under 140,you can’t use it against Medium or Heavy at all.
it required specific damage combinations for each classes. so lunge was 140.

[normal ice]

All the combinations would be the same with 138 instead of 140. I personally wouldn't mind 140 back, though

[slender bear]

Maybe we're going to get a summer event featuring squirt guns, water balloons, and slip n' slides sponsored by HydraQ. There could also be a popsicle skin!

[cinder jetty]

we already have that

[hardy dust]

The problem was people not bothering to switch up how they play against it

It got nerfed because of people being bad at the game

And people not wanting to play against something different from a gun

[pine kiln]

What the fuck am I supposed to do when I hear a light invis? Lets say im a building in monaco using my demat to cross buildings so that the chances of me getting my fucked by a light is a little bit less. I hear the crackle; great, now theres 4 holes that the light might pop out from that being the 2 windows, 1 door and the hole that I demmated. I remat that hole and goo the two windows, now theres only one entrence. The smart light decided to target the idiotic level 50 heavy who decided to go in the fucking roof as the class with the slowest and biggest hitbox. Wheres my light? I dont know cause most of the lights i get matched up with decided that he wants to solo the enemy team ALONE. You might ask, yeah no shit you're a soloq well thats the majority of the playerbase are you stupid

My problem with lights its designed to punish a team that wont work together which is like, most of my soloq matches throughout the whole season. It's designed to punish the majority of the playerbase aka people that SoloQ and with the matchmaking system that matches me with emeralds it doesnt help either.

No offense but Lights are in the end, absolutely HORRIFIC game design. It is exactly what happens when game developers doesnt know how people generally play games. Theres a reason why so many people HATED playing solo in games like warzone, valorant and others. Embark deciding to make a class that punishes soloQ is just terrible. I have no problem with lights when I play with my friends but suddenly in soloQ it ends up being just a horrible class to play against

[plush harbor]

light and medium need their roles swapped

[cinder oracle]

lmaooo

[plucky spade]

Skill issue(?)

[gloomy bobcat]

EMBARK DROP BOW ANIMATIONS AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[tender atlas]

Stoked about the new ARN animations but we need more skinsss

Also praying we get a new specialization for light and/or medium next season, we’ve been stuck on the same ones since season TWO

[wind folio]

Drop shak50 animations, im on my knees embark

[shut echo]

Wish we could get a tactical skin for the LH1 already.

[trail saffron]

is the triangle shotgun good

it looks really cool but i saw videos saying its probably gonna get nerfed

[gusty rock]

a EBR skin or SOCOM 16 would be fire

[slender bear]

I don't see anything like that in the game rn...

[mystic lily]

Yoooo Embark! Bring back the eclipse shade Pike, please! I want it so badly….. will donate my last cent!!!

[gusty rock]

I have it and i never use the pike...

[cinder jetty]

if you talking about summer theme, yeah we already have that. but i'd love to see popsicle as a dagger knife

[shut echo]

That’s what I’m saying.

[gusty rock]

I would main the lh1 then

[slender bear]

I meant a summer ltm, with actual functioning squirt guns and water balloons instead of skins.

[cinder jetty]

oooooh, sure thatd be cool

definitely wheel of summer lol

[little knot]

how do you kill with mines?

[mystic lily]

Shame on you!😁

[past parcel]

lh1 got nerfed too hard, its shit now

[pine kiln]

love the ragebait

[plucky spade]

no fr this sounds like a proper skill issue, yours or your team's

[exotic skiff]

light is the easiest class tho

[radiant orbit]

Have you tried shooting at them? They die pretty quick.

[faint steppe]

Wasn't that in one of the season passes? If yes, it's coming back as long as it wasn't on the bonus pages

[shell sonnet]

where was it said the passes are coming back?
i vaguely remember something like that but dont remember the source

[faint steppe]

Embark Rob has confirmed it in multiple streams which should make it pretty much official

[shell sonnet]

nice
fomo begone

[winter jay]

Sorry man doesn’t look like it’s happening

[gusty rock]

what yall think they be adding for guns?

[pine kiln]

2 ragebaiters? thats rare

[red dune]

Sniper for heavy

[gusty rock]

i really have a feeling that its gonna be G3 for heavy idk why

[dawn marsh]

riot shield buff, i beg (or at least a fix)

[raw cave]

make a shield appear as a mesh when blocking, that way there will be no reason to lower fov, give it a spear and give heavy something like a chainsaw, that way there will be a way to add an attack while blocking, and make it actually block melee. Every hecking time i take a ton of damage from qm, none of the melees getting blocked, like today i was looking straight on the dashing light, he hit the shield and you know what? He just hit me through it!

[raw cave]

also explosions aren't blocking

[somber jewel]

Its not fun to play, its not fun to play against.... maybe just swap to heavy melee

[raw cave]

why even bother then? leave only hammer and sword in game, cause like, the weapon is shit? Just use this one, it actually works

[dawn marsh]

It's fun to play as, but only when the thing ACTUALLY WORKS.
Lobby with a lot of lights? You're fucked
Lobby with melee/slam/flamethrower heavies? You're also fucked
The only class that doesn't have an easily available counter is medium (excluding CL).

The thing does one thing good - blocking bullets, but the second you stray away from that it does nothing

[stray cave]

is m26 matter gun in light is good with dash or cloak?

[dawn marsh]

Every melee has lingering hitboxes that will go around your shield including qm.
Do you know what has the least amount of lingering? The RS baton swipe. So the only time the riot shield blocks melee is against another RS.

[raw cave]

i know, brother, i know

[uneven niche]

better with dash

[stray cave]

okay

[raw cave]

healing dart

[dawn marsh]

i will healbot my heavy

[faint meteor]

We got cyborgs it’s only a matter of time till we get the furry skins lol

Also is it just me or is the 357 good now

Feels like I can get kills with it more often

[gusty rock]

that looks like a 93r skin no?

[raw cave]

more like pike

[shell sonnet]

new styles and new ways to earn them?
where is that amethyst skin guy

[gloomy bobcat]

Im not picking sides until I know one side has bow skins or even animations

ITS ALL I NEED PLEASE EMBARK ILL BARK ALL YOU WANT

[zinc kiln]

Thought the thingy in the devlog looked similar but idk

might just be a Cns theamed 93R

[gusty rock]

the one on the left most side

[bright hill]

Before the update today I have all the allurisma skins and noe I have a nearly full set of skins. So beautiful 😍

[coral root]

Thank god there wont be any new guns next season

[fringe nymph]

what?

[slender bear]

I have an idea for the first purely damage based spec

A CNS themed spec based on old arcade scores and multipliers.
It would work like cloaking device, except you can gain points when performing actions to build up a passive damage multiplier while active.
The damage multiplier stays active while the spec isn't activated, but it decays rapidly (it also decays while the spec is active)
The multiplier would only go up to 10%, and it would decay by 1% every 3 seconds.
Things like hitting shots, using gadgets, stealing objectives, and other things would give set point values, with every 100p granting you a 1% damage boost. Cashing out gives you 1000p!

[shut bane]

Oooh mama

Future vibe sounds fun

[winter jay]

New gadget

[slender bear]

Also, we might see a legendary progression reward from it, which would be nice since demat is the only spec that has one so far.

[jolly bison]

New gadgets: Cyanide capsule - for more effective feed. Suicide belt - C4 explodes at the place of your death after 1.5 seconds. Horse doping injector - for 5 seconds you run 20% faster, but lose health. Fidelity belt - for 17 seconds you do not receive damage from behind.

Chewing tobacco - after using it, you can spit at the wall and your spit will burn through the wall.

OSPUZE condoms - you can inflate it and fly a short distance.

[slender bear]

Give flamethrower a mythic skin

I think something like this would actually be deserving of mythic rarity.

[young pewter]

I would buy this

[gritty swallow]

make the reload shake the can and it would be perfect

[slender bear]

That could be the tactical reload, maybe the empty reload would strike another match against the side of the can.

The match's fire would go out when you've used all of your ammo.

[gritty swallow]

inspect could be doing finger tricks with the lighter or just somthing else idk about the inspect

[slender bear]

It's perfect!
At least this would actually be worth 1200mb

[gritty swallow]

would just be free money for embark, what flame player doesn't want that

[keen island]

i feel like problem would be readability for other players, like how would they be able to tell from a distance its a flamethrower

[tired salmon]

Idk maybe the flames that are shooting 5 feet out of it

[keen island]

no way thats crazy

i mean before they do that smh

[flat fern]

It looks like we’re getting a p90 4 medium

[slender bear]

Introducing the comedically large hair spray can, cousin of the comedically large spoon!

[keen island]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-raccoon-absolute-cinema-gif-17862327649353748812

[slender bear]

I don't think it really has to be bigger than the v95 tbh

[woven chasm]

Heal nade

Slow Nade

[fleet yoke]

thats a good point dude, a heal nade would be a really cool gadget. ill put the info out to embark :) moolah

[woven chasm]

Hear me out.... Cash Nade

[fleet yoke]

dawg i aint hearing shit

[woven chasm]

Please dont swear my children are sleeping

[fleet yoke]

matter of fact im deaf on both ears

[woven chasm]

Hear me out... Fake Steal Nade

[fleet yoke]

u geekin

[slender bear]

Hear me out, nade nade

[woven chasm]

Hear me out, Echolocation for Light

@slender bear Thats a silly idea

[keen island]

hear me out, sonar nade

[fleet yoke]

that doesnt make sense dude, why are you typing this?!

[woven chasm]

Hear me out, FPV Drones for light

[fleet yoke]

hear me out alt f4 nade

[woven chasm]

Crash nade

[slender bear]

Hear me out, nade nade nade

[fleet yoke]

good call

[woven chasm]

NICE IDEA BRAQ

[fleet yoke]

braq come play ranked with us

[visual pendant]

hear me out s*x nade

[formal hearth]

I aint hearing u out brotha

[visual pendant]

😦

[formal hearth]

Ahhhh you meant six nade, like a nade skin with six of em ducktaped together

[visual pendant]

sex

[lyric mirage]

sex

[visual pendant]

it's 3 am in the morning , im so bored

[woven chasm]

hear me out Love Nade: Make the enemy sleep with you. If youre a heavy you cause light to die but medium to heal and vice verca

[visual pendant]

tried playing ranked but match making would take forever

[formal hearth]

Thats better

[amber ermine]

are u Chinese?

[woven chasm]

Got hit by the chinese nade

[fleet yoke]

W

[lyric mirage]

make one for me pretty please

[formal hearth]

Sure thing

[lyric mirage]

ill pay you in exposure

[formal hearth]

Gotta get those sponsorships

[lyric mirage]

@sullen hemlock yo check this guy out

[unborn jasper]

that is NOT me my guy

[lyric mirage]

oops wrong guy @unborn jasper

[formal hearth]

Poor Voxel got pinged for nothing

[lyric mirage]

maybe hes into it

[formal hearth]

Arent we all

Cant wait till cm comes in this channel and sees this discussion

[lyric mirage]

its gonna be great

we should ping him again make sure he sees it

[fiery hull]

i agree

[lyric mirage]

do it

[obsidian nexus]

bring back close quarter combat meta

sniper grapple is on par with cerb goo with how abnoxious it is

[lyric mirage]

True, but it’s not as good. Still annoying

[velvet shoal]

I want a chainsaw for my birthday

[shadow onyx]

give riot shield a glock

[lyric mirage]

Give Cerberus a riot shield

[woven chasm]

Hear me out.... Remove Grenade Launcher on medium

[fleet yoke]

w call

[woven chasm]

Give Cerberus and Cl40 stage 4 Bone Cancer

[fleet yoke]

faxx

[radiant orbit]

Or you know you could just not approach cerb players since its damage drops off a cliff beyond like 10m and shoot back when you get hit by the cl-40 since it has the lowest TTK in the class (a TTK only reached by hitting nades directly.)

[runic root]

its easier to hit nades then all your scar shots lol

[flat fern]

It looks like we’re getting a p90

[radiant orbit]

And you’re definitely allowed to have that opinion. Doesn’t change the fact that the FCAR kills medium a full second faster and heavy nearly 2 seconds faster. Unfortunately it only kills light in half the time : (

[radiant orbit]

Where are ya seein that?

[runic root]

doesnt matter when its far easier to hit the actual shots

[flat fern]

Season 7 main card

Can’t send a picture tho

[radiant orbit]

And again totally fine to have that opinion. Just know it’s an issue solvable by aiming.

[flat fern]

Go to https://www.reachthefinals.com/patchnotes/s7teaser

[runic root]

which is far easier said than done. Yes fighting the one percent with an xp is zero fun, but fighting the average player with a cerb or cl40 is also ZERO fun, and occurs far more

[radiant orbit]

Well I’m sorry to hear that, I tend to enjoy the challenge in the same way I enjoy getting cornered by dash lights.

[plucky shore]

if i throw down one end of a gateway, how long will that unfinished gateway stay there?

[sleek jetty]

whats the range for a gateway? how many meters

[plucky shore]

70 meters

[sleek jetty]

👍 thanks

[slender bear]

It won't dissappear unless you move more than 70m away.

[plucky shore]

oh ive been completely misusing it then

[sleek jetty]

is goo gun strong? for ranked paired with shak, dome sheild, pyro nade and rpg

[slender bear]

There are better options, but you can still run it and see good results in ranked.

[rare hound]

yee

[oblique crypt]

Goo ahead and try it, insulatta fun. I'ma get off my foam now.

[deep mason]

@slow linden u like this ideas #👂┇game-feedback message

[slender bear]

HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!

[restive plover]

I am doing better with Model than Cerb, Spear than Hammer and MGL than everything else combined.

That's not how any of this is meant to work could I be genetically predisposed to being a contrarian? :<

[toxic frigate]

have a cerberus shotgun animation where you just dump like a box of shells at the barrels and itll reload

like the postal 2 shotgun reload or something like that

[bitter surge]

Gravity Vortex needs an HP buff

It gets broken down really fast

[plush harbor]

it should suck harder

[drifting python]

every season are there new guns for all 3 classes?

[carmine hornet]

Do you mean the gate way needs a throwing range alarm

[bitter surge]

Not necessarily, could be 2 guns or 3 guns

[plush harbor]

No

[sacred cypress]

What time do we get the next leak?

[polar trout]

ot was at 12 est every day last season, likely the same this time

[restive plover]

What US city do I need to put into my iphone's world clock for EST... Washington? (which would make that ~6 hours from now)

[amber ermine]

we want this embark pls don't give us another choppy ugly ass weapon like the clouds and the black one in lv 8 that is barely noticeable

[shell heron]

yo guys, my main is light, play with dashes, glitch, goo and vanish, but i think goo grenate is not the best choice, and many people have told me about it, what do you think about it?

should I change it to something else? (besides gate, I hate his asf, I can't play with him + he needs a NON-Random team)

It would be nice if people who have a high ranking in the ranked/world tour and who understand what the meta is now would tell me.

[deep mason]

@quasi sleet same

[wanton raptor]

best gadget now?

[deep mason]

Ur mum

[wanton raptor]

THANKS

[gleaming cedar]

This looks very well edited tbh where u get that from?

[amber ermine]

it was sent here long time ago by a guy , he said he used ai to change the color Dr house

[gleaming cedar]

Thanks

[amber ermine]

how is ur leg nowadays doc?

[gleaming cedar]

Bad tbh

[crimson nimbus]

@viral pond
That’s not a reason to nerf the sword. That’s a reason to buff the riot shield. The problem is that the Medium’s specializations and gadgets just aren’t suited for melee combat. But we don't want to treat riot shield like it doesn't exist, so it needs a buff.

And it literally says that Light is a counter to all melee weapons. It’s not just the sword that can beat a riot shield. Even if you’re using a gun, a skilled Light will just disengage for a moment and then come back to shoot you from behind.

That’s why I believe weaker weapons like the riot shield need buffs. Right now, the sword is one of those weaker weapons. Instead of nerfing things, it would be way more fun to buff the rest and balance the game that way.

The current approach to nerfs in The Finals is going too far. Everything is getting weaker. It feels like they’re only balancing for gun-focused Mediums while completely ignoring all melee playstyles.

[exotic skiff]

Melee should be bad that an fps

That not for honor

[shell heron]

?

[brittle yoke]

im a goo fanatic on light so id say stick with it, free cover and movement, so much goo tech. idk why you are anti gateway but its just the best gadget in the game so would recommend learning it

[crimson nimbus]

@teal lance
"Lunge + QM can still 2-tap mediums and 3-tap heavies (105+40)"

Nope. No one gets to say “still” when the sword just took a 35 damage nerf.
Heavy mains have no business judging the sword if they’ve never seriously used it. The fact is the damage combination is so weak now.

I know a YouTuber who used to consistently reach Ruby using the sword. But in his latest video, he’s stuck in Platinum. That alone shows how absurd the situation is.

Now imagine the current best gun, Pike, got the same treatment with a 25% damage nerf. Its 50 damage would drop to 37.5. If you kept using Pike after that, of course your rank would drop. It would be trash. That’s exactly what happened to the sword.

What if the weapon you use got a 25% damage nerf? Could you "still" say that after such a ridiculous nerf? NEVER

[plush harbor]

Who’s this YouTuber

[crimson nimbus]

xIMightBeGood

[plush harbor]

ik a guy who still reaches ruby with sword so clearly this guy just isn’t good

[teal lance]

Nerf to damage was wrong, yes. But the only real difference is you can't one tap lights while other light guns still can one tap you (a problem)
Medium still would take 2 no matter what in a 1v1 (180 leaves at 70 so another hit is required)
Heavy went from 2-3
(180x2= 360) (145x3=435)

[crimson nimbus]

So? Then that person is just good, not the sword being strong. Of course, you have to make that distinction. There can be someone who reaches Ruby with a weak weapon. But that doesn’t mean weak weapons should be nerfed.
Sword right now is weak.

[plush harbor]

@blazing spear it’s nerf sword o’clock

[blazing spear]

Love it

[teal lance]

Charge lost 23% to initially damage and I still use it to this day, it's only 2% off so
|| You can still 8 hit combo heavies with it to kill them ||

[blazing spear]

Honestly nerf it again

[sacred cypress]

When is the S7 leak dropping

Also, is heavy getting a new weapon?

[proper elbow]

Please Defib users, stop being like this guy :{

Even more when the dude that is getting revived is a heavy, that take 3 years to regen its life

[crimson nimbus]

I think Charge n Slam also needs a buff. Like I’ve said before, Charge n Slam has mostly benefited Mediums. There are just too many blatant patches made only for Medium.

But my point isn’t that Medium should be nerfed. it’s that the other things that were unfairly nerfed should be buffed instead.

[faint steppe]

Nah, Charge n Slam should be reworked to offer more movement and or destruction. It should never again be a no skill damage button. And no, it wasn't a blatant patch for Medium. All the classes and self respecting heavy players benefited

[teal lance]

I wouldn't like charge to get a rework, I get it's a "panic button" but it's also fun. Learning to smash a wall down then cancel the ability to shoot again instead of slamming in the room

[faint steppe]

Rework doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't retain the things you've mentioned but rather lean more into these aspects and actually provide a meaningful skill ceiling.

However, its damage definitely shouldn't be buffed.

[hollow horizon]

can i talk a bit about the LH1

[proper elbow]

Charge & slam is more usefull as a utility than actual damage. Yet it obliterates lights lol

[hollow horizon]

does anyone think that the 6 damage drop per bullet for the LH1 was maybe a bit too harsh, considering it is in an almost unusable state now

maybe if the damage was nerfed to around 43 per bullet, it would have been still usable

[quasi hornet]

WHAT ARE THE NEW WEAPONS?!!? (has anybody seen the art in s7 patches note?)

[hollow horizon]

i think a p90 type smg

[faint steppe]

Most likely won't be any. I think they only teased gadgets in the initial promos

[quasi hornet]

i see an AR / DMR type too

[hollow horizon]

could the weapon that the girl is holding be a pike skin ?, or a completely new weapon

in the season 7 banner

[quasi hornet]

i am not sure

heavy in the back is also holding something

[hollow horizon]

the gun in the purple dudes hand look to be either a 93r skin or nullifier skin

[quasi hornet]

yeah

[plush harbor]

There are no new weapons

[quasi hornet]

sad

[hollow horizon]

heavy look to be holding a specialization , does not look like any gun i have seen

new specialization or gadget maybe

[plush harbor]

Light is carrying a healing smg skin (new gadget), medium is carrying pike skin, heavy carrying healing lockbolt skin (new gadget)

[quasi hornet]

huh?

[plush harbor]

medium gadget yet to be revealed

[hollow horizon]

only gadgets then huh?

hopefully the weapon changes could change the cerberus meta

are there any weapon changes?

[plush harbor]

Correct

[plush harbor]

Definitely but idk what they are yet

[faint steppe]

I hope if light gets any type of healing that they can't apply it to themselves but actually have to play with their team

[plush harbor]

the healing is ass only like 20/s

[quasi hornet]

hype 15% decreased 😦

[plush harbor]

it’s gonna be another nothing burger for light

[quasi hornet]

fr

[hollow horizon]

I just hope that the arn is tweaked so that it could be better to use, because it feels so good but the xp 54 is just better

Gameplay wise

[faint steppe]

The ARN is already in the discussion for best light weapon rn. Just play your range well and pretty much no other weapon can reliably compete

[hollow horizon]

Ooh

Wut other weapon changes could be expected??

[faint steppe]

Difficult to say. Cerb will most likely receive another nerf, both Model and KS need a reload buff and nobody knows how serious Embark was about nerfing potential light oneshots which could mean changes for a bunch of weapons

[hollow horizon]

The weapons that recieve a oneshot nerf are absolutely butchered

Only stopping oneshots should not make a weapon unusable

[faint steppe]

Yeah, massively reducing damage will make most weapons unusable. It's pretty much just a bandaid fix. At the same time it's understandable that they want to take out some frustration for newer players. But simple damage nerfs are definitely not a reliable way

[hollow horizon]

Smarter nerfs require time, like the stun gun took a whole season almost

But still, the sword nerf was a bit extreme

[oblique crypt]

Where do you find this?

[quasi hornet]

I game announcements check latest drop and click link for daily blog

[sterile prawn]

556 is OP trash gun

[hollow summit]

I don't play The Finals often but Feilx gives ma reassurance

[twilit whale]

I still use the LH1 and have a bit of success with it. That being said, I do feel like the damage nerf really hurt the weapon.

[shadow onyx]

Can they fix the recoil on the horizon hammer. No way I paid 800 MB to be worse

[slender bear]

An underpowered spec idea for light:

Sidearm

-no cooldown, swaps your weapon to a preset melee weapon that you chose in the main menu
-on light that means sword and dagger are your only options
-could allow for some nutty plays with lunge + m11, but it comes at the cost of a spec slot that has no benefit outside of 10m
-you can also run it with a melee weapon, although I'm not sure if it would let you select a gun to swap to or just give you double melee
-melee weapon selection can only be done in the main menu, with a tab similar to the sights tab on weapons

[paper remnant]

i think there’s potential for a new weapon to still release they are just keeping it tight lipped for later

[dry talon]

i hate to say it. but ripping off ana's sniper from overwatch would be a fun second sniper. heals teammates when hit. then does small poison tick dmg when you hit an opposing contestant

[dry talon]

they are taken from still shots from teaser videos and some small leaks. so far it looks like we have some sort of healing gun

[slender bear]

I'm still holding out hope that they made a last minute decision to put the heal gun on medium and gave light a spec instead. I would love to be an annoying light healer, but I'm desperate for a new spec. Maybe we'll get both? That's kind of greedy though.

[gritty socket]

yeah ive always thought im missing secondary weapon

[nimble yoke]

What u guys thınkınk bout m26 matter

[icy sparrow]

@proud galleon u like my idea on the dual blades rework?

New dual blades in battle pass where the animations is that u sharpen one blade by dragging in to the other blade creating sparks💥 to do some fire or electric(stun/glitch) damage when the sparks hit and maybe make it into a mechanic to do a special move cause the duel sword is kinda boring from a gameplay perspective 😔

🔥Flamethrower should set terrain on fire after using 10 ammo and people rarely hide on trees or in grass so setting that on fire isn’t useful,it’s a great defensive utility.

[proud galleon]

I only like the inspect animation idea, that will be really cool

[icy sparrow]

The sparks hit the player cause fire damage

[brittle yoke]

nah idk ab dmg but i think that anim would be baller and i would buy it

[proud galleon]

taking damage from an inspect animation?

[icy sparrow]

The flame thrower already set terrain on fire in beta actually

[proud galleon]

did they remove that

[icy sparrow]

Yes

[proud galleon]

damn

[brittle yoke]

yeah didnt it used to leave trails of fire where u shot?

[icy sparrow]

Yea u need alt button to block right

[proud galleon]

yeah

[brittle yoke]

it used to burn monaco houzes down insane

[icy sparrow]

I hope u also put the spark idea in ur comment or else dual blades r boring

[proud galleon]

I will

[icy sparrow]

Also the flamethrower idea but one the walls u fire 10ammo at burns and not the entire building cause that’s too op and got removed

[restive plover]

So turns out it's not only KS-23 who stopped ejecting slugs and started ejecting buckshot.

For other gun skins like the diamonds they don't eject platinum bullet casings either and just eject normal ones.

And before they used to.

Or these Kinetic Flare skins for example, they used to eject ''glitchy'' casings but now they're just normal when shooting.

New vs Old.

[keen marsh]

Hello. Im new to the game. I remember playing the playtest a long time ago and enjoying it. And now returned here at the end of season 6 haha. Any tips on what would be an optimal build? I like playing heavies but it seems medium and light is the current meta from the couple of matches I played. Any build tips for them?

[normal ice]

Medium is always meta. Run Demat (or if not, Heal Beam), an AR/Pike/Cerberus, Defib, one or both movement gadgets, and your favorite trap/grenade.

#👂┇game-feedback message
@light star Have you considered that Medium's hitscan options have faster TTKs and no self-damage? If you're really struggling with the far-from-meta projectile weapon this much, I suggest trying to reposition to high ground more. Or APS. Or throwing Goo in their face. Or bearhugging them. Or outranging them. Or jumping over the grenades as they hit the floor. Or just killing them faster than they kill you.

[hardy dust]

cl40 is just easy to use. its not good, just easy.

[light star]

I'd never complain being 2 shot by a repeater or something, but being 2 shot by a basically 5-ammo nuke launcher from a dude who spends 35 minutes walking up to you the entire match is just no fun, might not be meta in quick cash but I'm mainly playing powershift.

[nocturne barn]

Idk if someone is seeing the top of gateway is following me on the same direction where i left it of

[light star]

Jumping over grenades? these things don't bounce

[normal ice]

Well, that'd be the problem lol. Power Shift is completely different from WT and Ranked. The balancing is all out of wack.

[hardy dust]

even in power shift cl40 isnt great

[nocturne barn]

Thats kinda true

[normal ice]

You can mitigate the explosive damage by jumping over the explosions, that's what I mean

[hardy dust]

you can just go to pick a 1v1 and you should be able to easily take them down

just getting high ground is already such a huge advantage against them

[normal ice]

Yeah, highground means they're forced to land direct hits

[light star]

I'd say it's fair, ofcourse has it's quirks but what doesn't

[hardy dust]

but as a side point, things should never be balanced based on side gamemodes if they're gonna have an actual effect in main ones

[light star]

I was just asking to make it hurt it's user more, not to change the damage

[hardy dust]

that would still be a significant nerf

[light star]

if people use it the way it's normally intended to be used it won't make a significant difference

[hardy dust]

as it is right now you can basically force a trade by jumping in their face point blank

[normal ice]

The self-damage is already pretty punishing if you play into it. It's more self-damage than damage to enemies

I honestly wish it'd go down to x1 self-damage instead

The only other thing that does more self-damage to you is the RPG

[hardy dust]

that would be nice

at least its not the 1.6x from before, but 1.25x is still brutal

[hardy dust]

it will, since it basically makes it completely useless up close instead of severely disadvantaged like right now

[restive plover]

wasn't it dog doodoo when it had higher self before?

and now with bigger radius that would make it even more so?

[hardy dust]

It was terrible

Rn its honestly in a fine spot. I'd personally like the self damage, but also splash reduced a bit and the direct hit increased

Direct 100->125
Splash 90->smth slightly lower
Self 1.25x->1x

You could 2 shot medium with good aim instead of going for 3 splashes like rn

Basically no benefit for direct hits with cl40 as it is right now

The 10 extra changes 0 break points and going for splash is way easier

[brittle yoke]

THIS IS THE SEASON GUYS WE'RE GETTING THE CNS BUTTERFLY KNIFE WHoever that guy was that asked for that its happening

make it mythic give it cool animations i will pay $20 for this dagger skin

[slender bear]

I'm just say:

Light gets heal gun
Medium gets heal grenade

Hydra_Q makes a big comeback, giving us a water gun skin for the heal gun and a water bottle skin for the heal grenade, complete with a drinking inspect animation.

Maybe if Hydra_Q is an actual sponsor there'll be a recolored soak n' scorch flamethrower skin as part of the sponsor progression.

[quasi hornet]

My wishlist
Proper snipers for medium and heavy class
Secondary weapons
Grenades can be cooked now
Small amount of weapon customizimg
New unique specialization

[deep mason]

@dusk heath why is this blocked cause no bad words r here

[gleaming ledge]

Omg can mfs stop switching through their damn builds mid game? Its so cheap and desperate.

Like I fr fought a enemy team who kept changing their builds and won only because they switched to aps turret, slam charge to goo gun, etc. Like that is so goddamn annoying and it makes you look desperate as hell.

[strong brook]

How do i improve my aim with the Repeater?

[gleaming ledge]

There's videos. I can't say anything as I got my aim from cod, srry

[inner palm]

Personally how i do it is that i just use it in the gamemode power shift. You can get on a good spot and try to snipe people who wants to or are on the objective but you will have to be careful against enemy light sniper or another repeater user

[merry imp]

How are the double swords different in gameplay than the riot shield?

[inner palm]

The double swords can deflect bullets back at the enemy. And you do take damage still but only very little.
Riot shield blocks bullets completly and i believe even blocks explosions unlike the swords

Both have very different playstyles

[prisma maple]

Ok I do that but only because I'm trying to figure out which build I want to play in for most of the time I play. And I only do that on my first game.

But also, who cares? Switch your load out to fight them then?

That's how the game is supposed to be played a give and take

[lilac yacht]

in the practice range:

use the medium red still target dummy in the mini forest to practice your quick scope timing, aim for the head using the white crosshair and then try to quickscope until you can reliably hit the head

use the heavy moving dummy to practice actually aiming those quickscopes, you need to have your timing trained before this, there is a lot of cover in the forest so if you can reliably kill the heavy with no more than a single mag you should be fine in most in game scenarios

and if you can quickscope then aiming at long range should come with that

[plush harbor]

By shooting people idk what to tell you

[icy sparrow]

@dapper marten ay

[proven scroll]

are nullified players supposed to absorb bullets?

is that the intended effect?

[icy sparrow]

@cyan bone the devs clearly want ks23 to be medium range and not quick melee cheese.
If u want to be taken seriously then ask to increase projectile speed and headshot 1.2x and wall penetration with lower damaged after wall penetration.

[cyan bone]

are u insane?

medium range shotgun ks-23 that got dmg red on 18 meters)

btw ur req of buff is not gonna change situation in any way of balance

Why q melee is cheese btw?

[icy sparrow]

In patch notes the devs said they want to avoid it being good at close range and treat it for longer range.

Atleast u need skill for headshot and predict wall penetration with motion sensor

[cyan bone]

throw a link to this confirmation, because I do not remember that the developers want the shotgun to be weak where it is only useful (which is in close quarters).

even if it is a ks-23. Its primary operating environment is close combat.

[light sierra]

Tbh there are so many different things you can do to improve your aim! From the right configurations to aim trainers and a fitness planner to train the right muscle groups. Your hardware, your aiming style, space availabe to aim, what position your hand is on your mouse! It is basically science
Also your monitor is important as well

[icy sparrow]

Bro I won’t go read all the patch notes to find that line but the main problem was not really quick melee ks23 alone but the winch ks23 and quick melee was too op so devs fixed it

Now people complain sledge is op cause winch plus sledge and quick melee is op lol

[cyan bone]

bruh if u say that dev realy said so when just prove it lol)

[icy sparrow]

Lazy to read

[cyan bone]

bc ur arguments are lit insane

[cyan bone]

welp unlucky for u

[icy sparrow]

Don’t u think there is a good reason devs removed it?

How am I insane,the devs did it

[cyan bone]

bro send patch note god dem

[icy sparrow]

Too lazy🙏😭

[cyan bone]

where they say that they want make shotgun weak at close?)

[icy sparrow]

No it’s the winch ks23 and quick melee combo

[cyan bone]

u said lit q melee is cheese)

but this chesse can be used by anybody

so what the point

[icy sparrow]

Sorry I meant the whole combo for winch ks23 and quick melee

Only reason it got removed

[cyan bone]

OK, i get it.
but then I'll just repeat my argument from the feedback

lit all other shotguns do better dmg and faster

when even ks-23 still got his combo

[icy sparrow]

It’s a winch problem not a shotgun one lol same reason people suddenly want sledge nerf

[cyan bone]

nah winch is justice against turbo light with db graple)

just to counter this high speed maniac

[icy sparrow]

K but that’s the price u gotta pay with balance changes

[cyan bone]

bro i dont understand this balance if other guns of H still perform good with winch after nerf

[icy sparrow]

Help in suggestion to increase projectile speed and headshot 1.2x and wall penetration

Others want the same and u can join

[cyan bone]

i think we all do our part of reviving ks-23)

so many posts i droped already

[icy sparrow]

Yea the quick melee cancel ain’t happen let’s focus on the other points

[cyan bone]

naaah

[icy sparrow]

I used this in suggestion

🔥Flamethrower should set terrain on fire after using 10 ammo and people rarely hide on trees or in grass so setting that on fire isn’t useful,it’s a great defensive utility.
This time the only flamethrower burns the terrain spot u fire for a long time and can’t spread to the entire building cause it’s concrete and not grass

Make 93r have more fire rate like reducing the time between bursts,make it shoot 4 bullets at a slower pace

The ks23 needs slightly higher projectile speed as even in mid range u have to lead your shots and it looks like it should hit but doesn’t and bullet deviation makes it worse.
It needs wall penetration after it’s weakened by one slug first and headshot 1.2x to make it truly unique and stand out.

Light breach charge needs to stack damage atleast close to what it was in season1

U should be able to charge a riot shield bash by using the weapon inspection button where u hit ur shield with Barton as a taunt and a telegraph,then u will shield bash to get closer or knock(5 damage) them off structures

New dual blades in battle pass where the animations is that u sharpen one blade by dragging in to the other blade creating sparks💥 to do some fire or electric(stun/glitch) damage when the sparks hit and maybe make it into a mechanic to do a special move cause the duel sword is kinda boring from a gameplay perspective 😔

[cyan bone]

lets combine q melee and ur sug

[icy sparrow]

Ok but don’t forget to use my points

[cyan bone]

kk i guess

[icy sparrow]

U agree with my flamethrower idea?

[cyan bone]

yea, its situational but it can make more points of viability to flame

but 93r buff? its like famas right now but for light

its crushing H very easy

[icy sparrow]

I mean the 3round burns is fast like it’s shooting one bullet,so will make it slower

Slower but u can control it more and it’s fire rate

[icy sparrow]

What about my duel sword idea at the end?!

[cyan bone]

i dunno man for me 93r right now is pretty strong. Maybe lit buff but in needs downgrade for justice

[cyan bone]

about blades)

[icy sparrow]

Hahah

[cyan bone]

blades after buff)

[icy sparrow]

Looks like riot shield

[cyan bone]

oh yea

in my head for the moment it becomes the same thing(like riot and blades)

[icy sparrow]

Help wit my suggestion in the thread

[icy sparrow]

Look he is doing it too #👂┇game-feedback message

[cyan bone]

okay and u help with q melee ks-23

[cyan bone]

yea okay letsgo

[icy sparrow]

@proud galleon hey we together will make the same suggestion cause we agree with each other

[icy sparrow]

Time limit is 17mins I will suggest then

[proud galleon]

yeah we can totally do that

[cyan bone]

hmm btw when was the last time anybody saw Ks-23 in any lobby?