💣┇weapons-gadgets

[dense snow]

It was a lot of fun to use. I didn't feel like it was too busted in cashout mode to do all that to it. But it was feeling pretty powerful in TDM with the close quarters and I'm sure that's why people started complaining

[boreal laurel]

Even in TDM flamethrower kind of nullifies it. I very much think it didn’t deserve nerfed

[dense snow]

Agreed, been waiting for that sword buff in the patchnotes but nothing yet. I know it was a weapon that frustrated a lot of new players, but there had to have been a better option. Even the S5 range nerf I could work with

[stone stump]

Insane take given it’s one the lowest tier weapons in the game and almost nobody runs it

[icy sparrow]

Doesn’t show the knife but the animation isn’t as good

#💣┇weapons-gadgets message

[thick holly]

As a riot shield main, it's actually needs a bit of a buff. I get absolutely destroyed by heavy

If you want some tips for the weakness of riot shield (from a shield main). Aim for the feet since that's always fully exposed. And make sure to stay away from their left side

I often keep people to my left so my shield can still block even when it's not up

And if you're in a team setting against one, split up and attack from different angles because one is always guaranteed to get an exposed angle on one

[normal ice]

I wish you could crouch while holding right click to maximize how much of your body you defend. I don't think it'd be broken because you're not attacking and crouching is your slowest movement option.

[thick holly]

Yeah I've also had this idea for a while

Being able to sort of turtle up, but having almost no movement speed

Would be amazing for stalling for time

Another thing just came to mind. It should have some sort of animation time. Just so it can't be abused in someway where you constantly crouch and un-crouch

[normal ice]

Well, technically speaking, that exposes your legs more

[thick holly]

Well what I mean is that there would be a slight cooldown before you could crouch again, I should have been more specific

That way you couldn't "make distance" towards someone while having full protection

[arctic zodiac]

Imagine if XP-54 had like recoil. That would be rad!

So effing lame getting lasered by rubies from accross the universe!

[slender bear]

I know normal weapon skins have pretty clear rarity descriptors, like how epic skins cover more of a weapon than rare ones, and legendary skins change the actual model and sometimes add new animations, but what is the deal with mythic skins? The new "Akimbanana" skin is our first mythic skin, but it isn't any different than most legendary skins. In fact, it has LESS unique animations than some legendary weapons, so I don't understand what sets it above the rest. Something tells me this is just an attempt to squeeze more money out of a (still ridiculously good) skin. Embark has generally been very fair when it comes to pricing, especially when you consider how high quality most of their legendary skins are, so I don't necessarily think this is a problem, but it seems kind of shady to try and market them as being a step up from legendary skins rather than just putting it on the market as a legendary skin worth 1,200 multibucks. All in all, it's an amazing skin, so it's definitely deserving of the price, it's just that we have even better ones that are considered to be lower rarities, so I don't understand the thought process behind making this specific skin the first mythic one.

[normal ice]

Ngl, new skin isn't "ridiculously good." It's just two generic bananas with a different equip and reload animation lol

It's a little funny, but not in the slightest unique

[slender bear]

It's still really high quality though. Not "mythic" good (compared to some legendary skins at least), but they are hyperrealistic.

[warm ginkgo]

Can someone tell me how to use grav vortex? I'm struggling to find good placement or timing

[north perch]

Is defib Zipline jump a good combo

[warm ginkgo]

You're not gonna need zipline AND jump pad, something to help with defense is a better idea

[dusky field]

Zipline and Jumpad is goated wdym

[normal ice]

Yes, it is a good combo. Sometimes it's overkill, especially if you have a Light or two, but if you need to cross larger maps more quickly like Kyoto or Bernal, it's a perfectly valid choice. I mostly see Ruby players who aimbot -- I mean, take Adderall use it, since they kill people just fine without gadgets

[north perch]

What aimbots do you reccomend with that combo

I play cl40 turret

[normal ice]

I like that combo. I wish it was good. But for Ranked or WT, it just isn't. Stick to Demat or Healing Beam, and use hitscan for faster TTKs

[north perch]

Would fcar heal goo jump defib be good

[normal ice]

Zip + Jump gives you a ton of mobility, meaning close-range and long-range options are both empowered. Try Cerberus for close range or Pike for long range

[dusky field]

It is good

[normal ice]

FCAR is pretty much always good, yes. And so are those gadgets

[north perch]

Should I swap off heal if I don't have a heavy

[normal ice]

Not necessarily. Healing another Medium is good, too. Actually, if you have a Light that sticks near you, healing them is also really good.

But Healing Beam isn't as important as having good terrain control. Demat should be your default unless you already have another Medium running it or your H/L teammates have lots of terrain destruction already.

[north perch]

Most of my games are MML so I can just play the opposite spec of the other medium

[warm ginkgo]

How do i put down enough damage on heavy without playing melee/flamethrower? Every time i try to use a gun i just get screwed by the insane L/M ttk

[normal ice]

Vortex is best used to camp choke points, cashouts, or opponents' statues. Think of it like C4 or Breach Charge except it traps people instead of damaging them/terrain

[normal ice]

Just gotta hit your shots. Deagles have the best range and best TTK against Light if you can hit your headshots. Other good Light killers are the auto shotty, ShAK, and minigun in close range

[warm ginkgo]

are LMGs even viable to play? I'm in QC and getting cooked trying to use lewis gun

[normal ice]

The general consensus is that M60 is currently better than Lewis Gun

More ammo and much easier recoil

It's not bad at all. It trades a little TTK for accuracy, range, and sustained fire, compared to most other options

[tranquil rose]

Is the banana deagles skin price 1200 multibucks??

[slender bear]

Yep

[tranquil rose]

Wow, a gun that cost more than a BPs?

Wild

[slender bear]

It isn't even any better than other legendary guns, so I don't understand why THIS was our first mythic skin. The skin is good and probably still worth the money if you want it, but it just baffles me.

[tranquil rose]

This is actually a test to see if people are now willing to pay high prices for guns that have good animations

How the banana skin can be even different than the stick ones?

[tidal urchin]

Hello, some what new.. question how do you get the scar reload where he flips the mag when reloading? I cant find it anywhere. was that a previous battlepass thing or something? Thanks

[tranquil rose]

This sounds super fishy too me

Like, we have the potato cl40 and the alien gun costing 800 and both have a ton of animations

Now if this become a trend they will start charging guns with that quality for 1200

[slender bear]

I like the skin and even now it's priced pretty fairly compared to what other games charge, but I still think it's pretty shady to label a run-of-the-mill legendary skin mythic and pretend it's actually better than a bunch of the legendary guns. I think they might be trying to trick people into paying more for the same, which is pretty dumb because the community they've built would 100% buy it if they just said "this one costs more because we want money". They've really built a lot of goodwill with this community, and I think it's pretty sad that they think they need to pull one over on us to make more money.

[tranquil rose]

The “pretend its actually better than a bunch of legendary skins” it’s on point, my main concern is they start to see that anything with new animation or diferent sounds as fucking better than legendary skins

A gun costing more than a whole BPs is 100% bullshit

People on reddit are calling it “inflated legendary”, good thing people are not blind to what this might cause in the future

[slender bear]

1200 multi bucks isn't even unfair for the quality of the skin, especially compared to what other games charge. I don't want to see the finals get to that point, but as of right now legendary skins are cheap enough that 1200 multibucks a skin won't hurt to much. I just think it's sad that they're trying the same corporate microtransactional scams that other studios are. It's not even like this is huge scam that's going to be making people pour hundreds of dollars in like the kind of thing apex does, but it wasn't necessary to be so shady about it.

The only problem is that higher quality legendary skins cost less than this one does. I would have understood if the made it on par with the v95 space gun and labeled it mythic, but unless they increase the prices of existing skins (of similar quality) to match, or lower the price of the akimbananas, I don't see any way this can blow over well.

[tranquil rose]

" but as of right now legendary skins are cheap enough that 1200 multibucks a skin won't hurt to much"

Exactly, at this very moment it won't cause any damage because this is a test. If by any chance this skin is successful then it might result in the future every gun with new animations and sounds be labeled as Mythical.

[tranquil rose]

They won't increase the prices because not only that would straight up make their new strategy too obvious but also it would piss people off.

I don't know if I'm begin too pessimist but this what skins might be in the future:

Legendary: any skin that changes the weapon model, no sounds or animations included (we already have those)

Mythical: any skin that change the weapon model + sounds + animations

And to be honest I don't really see how hard can it be to add new sound to a gun that you are already giving new animations

[slender bear]

That's the thing
This is a classic strategy lots of games use to trick people into paying more for the same. Embark didn't even have to trick us, they could have just put it up for 1200 and people still would have bought it. There might have been a few complaints about the price, but the mythic thing makes it too obvious that they're trying to trick us. They treat their community so well I don't even know why they thought this was necessary.

[tranquil rose]

Yep :/ that's sad as fuck

[slender bear]

They give us free skins and events every 3-4 weeks, but they thought it was necessary to pull out the most obvious scam in live service history for an extra 4 dollars per skin. There was legitimately no reason for this.

[drowsy orchid]

So what makes the Akimbananas “mythic”? It’s a model change, a draw animation, and a single reload animation. You can’t even use other animation sets with it.

[royal pier]

The Nexonization begins.

[tranquil rose]

First the wheel and now this lol

[tranquil rose]

It's an overglorified legendary

[royal pier]

Players spent on the wheel and the "not that bad" monetization schemes, which tells the money people at Embark and Nexon that they can push it further.

[royal pier]

I hate being right. Got flamed for saying it was going to escalate.

[drowsy orchid]

That’s a shame. I expected better from these devs.

[royal pier]

Life gets easier when you go in with low expectations.

[balmy ingot]

Devs can you add a cool Defib for medium. I had an idea where the D fibs were like dry ice and when you d fib somebody, they come back in icy smoke with a charm of a tank dry ice. That has a oozing animation

[normal ice]

Sorry, but The Wheel was and still is more of a scam than this inflated legendary banana skin is lol. That shit is literally unfair RNG that you only have a 14% chance of completing.

Embark lost their "good will" back with first of those fuckass wheels

[oblique crypt]

i LOVE the wheel

I just wish you didn't need to complete tne ENTIRE thing

[normal ice]

The Wheel is designed so that you are very unlikely to get everything. A friendlier system would allow you to keep earning tickets with more playtime. They purposely restrict the number you get.

[slender bear]

Yeah but most of the community understood that the wheels are literally free content with little to no work required. You might have to spend money if you want to fully complete it (FOMO friendly ig), but they were free at their core. Even the wheel events were just free stuff 99% of the time, and more often then not they just do contract rewards for events. They do more for their community than any other live service game, and I don't think that's overwritten by some bad events.

[normal ice]

Free* except it's a grind every day for 2 weeks and it's RNG how much value you're actually given in the end. Sorry, but the point was never about giving free items. It was about manipulating customers into spending for those last few items with gambling in a T-rated game.

[slender bear]

The only predatory characteristics of the wheel are the FOMO (pretty run of the mill tbh), and the fact that it encourages you to log on daily. If requiring players to play the game to get rewards is really that big of a deal, I think you might as well give up on gaming as a whole. Even if it's meant to manipulate people into buying the last few rewards, it's still not nearly as bad as the FOMO in other games, and it's still completely optional. Even if it's gambling, they could have made spins purchasable like literally every other game that does packs, like apex legends and overwatch, with the latter also being a T-rated game. No matter how you look at it, Embark is the least manipulative in the industry.

[normal ice]

No, I'm not saying the daily grind was the manipulative part. I'm saying the gambling is lol. IDK how Apex works, but OW1 is more fair with its ability to let you keep earning as many boxes as you want, buy anything with the infinitely earnable currency, and always get event skins again next year (no FOMO)

Being able to purchase spins wouldn't help make it any fairer. It'd just double down on the gambling philosophy

The funny part is that the About text for the wheels also says the items MAY or may NOT come back. They want to profit off FOMO but still be able to rehash the skins.

[slender bear]

Overwatch still has FOMO for every non holiday event. Even if you save up weekly rewards to purchase them, that months of work for a single skin, which isn't much better than 2 weeks of work for upwards of 14 different cosmetics.

[normal ice]

I was talking about OW1, not 2. 2 is indeed worse

[slender bear]

Basically everything in the modern live service scene is based entirely around FOMO and predatory monetization. Most skins that cost us 8 dollars in the finals would be running you over 30 anywhere else.

Overwatch 2 isn't much better than even apex in that regard.

[normal ice]

Also at least OW2 doesn't put its FOMO stuff on a wheel

And the pricing, while too big in other games, isn't really the factor that makes them predatory or not. It's the way they're sold

[warm ginkgo]

The grind you speak of is 3 games, about 45 mins quick cash. Doesn't seem too much. The issue I had with the Wheel is that you had to roll dupes for MORE THAN A DAY worth of tickets to get a single one back. Even 3 dupes for one extra ticket seems fairer. The FOMO is real though, in that I ended up buying a stupid sticker for 100 credits just to complete the thing and get a skin.

[normal ice]

You were lucky. I haven't gotten more than 18 of 20 across all of them. And I was always missing a Legendary each time

[warm ginkgo]

It'd make more sense to add some more contracts for tickets, maybe to complete over a week instead of just "log in and play 3 games" - I play a decent bit and the 3 tickets a day limit felt real tight, especially with the fragments system I mentioned above. I do understand that Embark wanted people to log in and play, but I think more LTMs in general and the addition of Bank It would be more successful.

[warm ginkgo]

This was the first wheel I've seen, because I just got back into the game 6ish months ago, but I played every single day and still only got 19. Most people have to work etc but I was lucky enough to have the time

[normal ice]

There's only a 14% chance of finishing the wheel with the tickets you can earn

[slender bear]

Overwatch 2 is definitely one of the better game in the industry when it comes to FOMO, but even then, it and the finals are basically the only live service games that act that way. The wheels suck, but their predatory nature is generally outweighed by the fact that you're usually getting at least 30 dollars worth of cosmetics for free. I was only 2 away from completing it, and even then if I bought the last ones, it would have been 9 dollars for a legendary watch, an epic crossbody, and a full legendary outfit. Even if it's FOMO that pressures people into getting these things, they're better prices than you would get anywhere else.

I also disagree that it's the way it's sold that matters. When The Finals puts out a new wheel, it feels unfair, but at least I don't have to spend 160 dollars to gamble for the items I want like in apex. I can literally just play the game, which I would have done anyways.

[warm ginkgo]

Damn ok, that seems kinda predatory but I get that Embark has to make money on an F2P game - how do we know it's 14%? Also the fact that the items "may" come back doesn't seem too fair. What would the chances look like if it were 3 dupes per ticket instead of 4?

[normal ice]

The price doesn't matter. They set their own prices. You're not getting $30 of value you can retrade or something. You're just getting digital pixels.

The way it's sold determines if it's manipulative. Imagine if an item set costed, at random per account, 0 to 1200 MB to buy. That's essentially how the wheel works

[slender bear]

But at the same time, it's the player that decides whether or not an item is worth the money they would spend on it. You can always choose not to get something.

[normal ice]

They can make money by simply adding items to the store as they usually do, doing crossovers, or adding and fixing more game content. The 14% figure is statistically proven and can be recreated with code. But frankly, even if it was a 99% chance you get everything, it's still literally unfair to the 1% that did everything the same and was left out for no reason

[slender bear]

Giving players the ability to gamble for free and buy the stuff they don't get is far less predatory than forcing them to spend over 100 dollars for a shot at the cosmetics they want.

[normal ice]

I agree, but I don't appreciate the lesser evil

[warm ginkgo]

This, and if you're that bothered (which you really shouldn't be, the skins are just a texture) you can still pay for the stuff you want

[normal ice]

I don't mind paying for stuff I want. I mind paying a completely random amount for stuff I want

[slender bear]

The wheels are still unfair, but they are also the least unfair gambling events in the industry.

[warm ginkgo]

Neither do I, but I think we have to show a little appreciation for Embark for being so much fairer than the big competitors. If they make it worse, that's when we make a fuss.

[slender bear]

That's only the case for the final reward though. Apex does final rewards too iirc, and for those you need to spend $160 dollars. The method through which they get you to buy things is basically the same, but you will NEVER spend as much money on a finals event as and apex one if you want the final reward.

[normal ice]

Unfortunately, history shows that collectively, playerbases will not make enough of a fuss. For every fuss, there is a customer who purchases anyway, which will further drive the prices up. The first fuss was over cosmetic horse armor DLC. Now we're here

insert rant about consumerism here

[slender bear]

It's still probably going to turn out that way (they are a live service game company after all), but I would rather be spending money on the least manipulative game on the market than any of the other options.

Idk if marvel rivals is any better, but they might be serious competition for the finals in that regard.

[random vine]

get rid of cloak. I cant believe a FPS multiplayer game has perks and gadgets where you can be invisible almost half the time

[tranquil rose]

"that Embark has to make money on an F2P game" people always use this argument but they forget that finals didn't survive up to this day because of the wheel, it survived by having friendly prices to content

Many things are fairly priced, the battle pass has a ton of content and it's fairly priced, bundles are basically multibucks with skins which is a huge incentive to buy those

[iron zenith]

zweihander spear mythic skin

[tranquil rose]

Those are the things that made the finals survive, the rest is pretty much Nexon grabing Embark by the balls making it do those things and day by day it passes and I think we're getting close to some pretty bullshit pricing

[warm ginkgo]

Who are Nexon?

[slender bear]

Embark's parent company

[gray haven]

so the new mp5 loses to arn and mp7 in all distance right?

[slender bear]

Rework idea for double barrel:

Double barrel is currently very strong, so I think it should be brought more in line with light weapons that have a similar range. The weapons in question? Melees.
Double barrel currently has a longer effective range than either melee weapon, kills faster at all distances, and has none of the movement penalties that the melee weapons suffer.
My solution is to give it the same treatment those weapons got. Rework the weapon into a blunderbuss, with a 0.5 second charge time, and the same movement penalty both sword and dagger get while charging. If sword can't stab someone for 105 damage without charging and staying slowed down (even accounting for the multihit), I don't think it's fair for Double barrel to deal over 150, from further away than sword can reach, with no charge up or movement penalty. This would give double barrel a ttk against heavy and medium that's more in line with most other guns, while retaining it's one shot against light, given the same restrictions as melee weapons (with greater reward because it's double barrel). This would bring ttk up by .5 seconds against heavy and medium, which happens to be roughly the same amount sword got from it's nerf. Sword definitely deserved the nerf it got, and is now clearly the pinnacle of balance, so I see no problem with giving double barrel the same treatment, seeing as it was even better than pre nerf sword.
What's funny is, this change to sword and dagger gutted their viability, but double barrel is so good currently this would only barely bring ttk against heavy to what every other weapon has, while medium ttk would probably be a bit slower than other weapons.

(I feel like it's worth mentioning, even with this change double barrel would still be leagues ahead of sword and dagger in terms of viability.)

[limber ingot]

maybe

[slender bear]

They could also just bring damage down enough that it doesn't one shot lights, but that would gut it so bad it would never see competitive use again.

[north perch]

Me and my duo run double med what weapons should we use

[hybrid lynx]

@agile willow explain? My weak mind can not comprehend any difference

[agile willow]

The sniper has high precision: ie it can place shots in the same spot consistently over long range

Its just hard to hit the shots w sniper, ie be accurate

I agree w u tho a long range weapon given cqc capability is not good

Ik ppl play dash sniper and do well with it at close range, but getting rid of hipfire penalty for any gun isnt a good idea

[hybrid lynx]

Thank you!

[brittle yoke]

wow!

[hardy dust]

The main issue with this is you're comparing something fine to something that is very very bad

Literally everything is better than melee on light

And sword really didn't deserve the nerf

[opal kettle]

Yeah plus now phantom strikes are fixed

[hardy dust]

It was not a balance issue, and the only reason it got nerfed it because people didn't want to adapt to it, they just wanted to play the game with the exact same narrow mindset

And phantom strikes literally did nothing effectively 99% of the time

And the entire reason they gave for the nerf (the lunge+qm light "insta" kill) is also just bs

Most light weapons can 1 shot, and a bunch at range, dash already counters sword very well

Sword is worst against light if the light has a brain

Or not even, just half decent aim will do too

[arctic zodiac]

Oh please the Sword was broken. Hell the netcode of the game cant even handle the dash. You die before you even see the animation and sword users could 2 dash+2qm Heavies. And its a AOE that you can just wiggle slap every enemy in the vicinity.

The nerf was overkill but saying that it didnt deserve a nerf is delusional!

[hardy dust]

If you die before you see the animation you have really bad eyesight. The netcode is a server issue entirely and screwed over sword just as much as it helped it. The 2 dash+ 2 qm kill on heavies takes longer than almost every other light weapon while also requiring you to be in point blank range of a heavy (where heavy has the ability to disintegrate a light). The aoe attack was the strongest part of it, but also the single thing it has above ranged weapon (bar movement, but that was less impactful). And even then, it was easy to counterplay by not sticking directly on top of eachother or just focusing the light (hitting 2-3 bullets per player, which really isn't the hardest, even with bad aim).

It was only good against bad players, and absolutely did not deserve a nerf.

It just required you to play around it more than a gun, because it has a higher reward for the much higher risk.

It got hard countered by a multitude of options and that every class has available, or just general gamesense and mechanical skill.

[shell sonnet]

If you need to swap your loadout to counter 1 guy then its bad balance imo

(But how certain things like glitch trap completely shut them down also isnt ok)

You cant always predict where everyone will attack you from 100% of the time, especially the class made to flank and ambush

And since a lot of cashout are inside, you will frequently be forced into swords most effective range, where they can pass you and deal big chunks of damage for looking in your general direction (or even miss, turn around mid charge and hit you anyways) while you need to track them the whole way

[shell sonnet]

And like, if its only good against bad players, but so good at it that it gets complained about enough to be nerfed, then it kinda failed at being a well designed weapon

Its not good at high elo, and ruins low elo due to its skewed skill:reward ratio

They could look into buffing the m2 distance to roughly current dash+m2 (and then removing its ability of dash to work with the buffed version)
So that it works better with grapple and especially cloak which is is afaik the only viable ranked option

It would allow for more loadout variety, making it more flexible and fun, while removing its training wheel needed for decent usage, which may allow it to be more useable in ranked

While still keeping the damage low enough so it wont mess with "bad" players

[hardy dust]

You dont need to swap your loadout to counter them, it's just you have the option to counter them absurdly easily with a swap. Obviously you can always predict it, but other light weapons would do better in that case, and knowing the enemy has a sword, you also have more leeway since they need to be point blank to do damage and you can't get ambushed at an off angle at 20m. Indoors are easier for sword, but guns still do fine. Its more that outdoors are terrible for sword. The issue with it excelling against bad players is that if those players dont bother to learn to play, they complain, which is more on the player than the weapon.

It's really hard to balance around players who don't bother to adapt and improve.

[shell sonnet]

When "adapting" mandates either removing part of what you find fun, or never engaging at 70% of the cashouts, that kind of turns the game into a slog

Thats like complaining that people dislike sniper when the suggested counterplay was swapping to light and spending more time hunting them down than it takes to respawn, or swapping to sledge, literally throwing and destroying the whole map so they dont have a sightline for the last 2 minutes of the match

[hardy dust]

That's also incredibly subjective for what people find fun. But it also isn't much of an ask on the adapting part. Sword definitely didnt force not engaging at 70% of cashouts so im not sure what you mean there.

I don't ever recall the suggested counterplay for sniper being swapping to light (or even worse sledge). Especially since decent aim already manages to do well against sniper.

Like rn sledge forces to adapt harder than sword ever did, although that's an entirely different issue.

And considering how much versatility there is in the finals, wanting to play in a single playstyle against everything and using that as grounds to gut a niche weapon is pretty lame.

[winged knoll]

thast beyond false its in the negative. its not hard adapting to the sledge player. it requires one thing. take away cover and dont chase them through door ways. its not hard at all. the light is constantly looking for you as an ambush. to say that isnt a priority over the sledge would be a lie

[hardy dust]

Sledge is literally meta rn and forces enemy teams to play around it.

[ashen hawk]

Basic Weapon Ideas for S7:

Medium:
**SMG with dual magazines. **
OR
Dual SMGs (like Dual Uzis)

Lights:
Assault Rifle with shotgun toggle, that acts as a secondary weapon (so does lesser damage).
OR
Assault rifle and shotgun in one gun, so Primary Fire button for one, and ALT Fire for the other. Almost the same thing.

Heavy:
Railgun. Can fire like a normal weapon without charge (something like LH1 or Pike) but that would do smaller but still significant damage and have lower penetration and range. But if you **charge it for longer it shoots as far as a sniper with great wall penetration and great damage. **BUT it doesnt have a scope.

[hardy dust]

No other weapon (apart from maybe cerb) has that much precedence on how much it asks the enemy to change the way they play.

[ashen hawk]

evas dash and xp54 melts sledge lol

try it urself its genuine fun 💀

[arctic zodiac]

Lets be honest... XP-54 melts everything 🙂

[ashen hawk]

lol fr. i can take the names of a few guns that it doesnt tho

[hardy dust]

Dash is decent against sledge but 1 winch and you're down to 20 hp, and sledge needs to play with teammates to excel so it's basically a guaranteed kill off of 1 winch

[ashen hawk]

winch has like 10m range. is bro living in season 3.

two evas dash and ur practically out of 10m lmao

if the light with evas dash is playing with the team too then its a guaranteed death for the sledge player winch or not

[hardy dust]

And that's light, which probably does the best against sledge. Medium and heavy, which are both stronger classes than light don't have the ability to evade as easily.

[coral echo]

throwing knives to the face you can't even get more than 3 shots off..

[hardy dust]

12m. Evasive dash will make you lose gunfights against any decent player with a gun. If the light is playing with team the sledge can just winch either a teammate for the free kill or if they manage to land the light they still die, but sledge has 350 hp to tank more.

[ashen hawk]

Jump pad works really well. Demat, goo gun.

The whole problem with sledge isnt that it cant be countered with gadgets, its that if you find urself in a large and open space, which is like 60 percent of this game, ur cooked. winch doesnt have the range and a heavy and med can take enough space in an open area to eliminate the sledge

[hardy dust]

Plus sledge is very strong defensively and can force engagements within 12m

[hardy dust]

in an open space.
Most cashouts are indoors, and winch lets the sledge move the cashout super well

[ashen hawk]

were talking about evas dash against a sledge. not a gun.

You realize that it takes a good amount of time to attack with a winch ryt?? in which they can simply just run away after being winched? even as a med or heavy lol

and cut me the free kill nonsense

[hardy dust]

You still get 1 hit with sledge on a winch even against dash. If the sledge has a free teammate they get to shoot the entire time on s stunned enemy. It's a free kill.

[ashen hawk]

Well guess what most spawns are outdoors or in open spaces and guess what you have to go through the map to get to that indoor cashout area so yeah.

[hardy dust]

Most are indoors, and the outdoor ones can either be avoided by the team or brought indoors with winch

[ashen hawk]

WTF IS A FREE TEAMMATE

blud if the light has a teammate his teammate can literally just shoot at the enemy teammate thats shooting at u

[hardy dust]

Having a teammate with the sledge.

The sledge not being alone.

And if the light has a teammate they still need to do 350 before the sledge team does 150? On a stunned target

[ashen hawk]

this is dumb asf.
When comparing two things you compare them with each other. So 1v1. With fair conditions smh

In this case, i can say that i have two sniper teammates that can shoot the sledge at once and kill him before he even winches me

[ashen hawk]

Winch does not stun Winch does not stun Winch does not stun Winch does not stun Winch does not stun Winch does not stun

You can evas outta there after he winches you. The sledge attack is too slow to do anything about that.

Do I have to write a song to you about this to make you understand logic?

[hardy dust]

Are you sure you're playing the same game

[hardy dust]

In a 1v1 all they gotta do is hit an rpg for 30 dmg...

If they hit the winch, which is pretty easy considering the massive hitbox

[hardy dust]

Do you realize im talking about the sledge light attack?

The heavy one is only worth against winched heavies

[shell sonnet]

Given, the exact number is pulled out of the air, but a majority of cashouts is somewhere inside, most of them smaller or roughly equal to a dash+sword, where light immidiatly gets an advantage

And on that last part
It wasnt the sole grounds, the hitreg was still incredibly jank
But even then, you always have the option to play something else
Trying to brute force variety just makes the player feel out of controle and annoyed
Similar to how people were told to just run aps to counter nuke
Its better to have 1 person that can always swap to something else be slightly worse off, than to force potentially an entire server into using something they dont like

[hardy dust]

Light does have the advantage of indoor cashouts, but its not as important as people make it out to be, and it still gets countered with good aim.
The hitreg is just because of terrible servers. Half the time playing sword it feels like your hits don't reg and playing against sword feels like you get hit when you shouldn't (kinda like how you get shot around corners)
Its less of brute forcing variety and more of trying to brute force a singular playstyle to work for everything.
Nuke didn't have proper counterplay nor was it able to be shut down with half decent skills. It's nowhere near comparable to sword.

Anyways gtg

[slender bear]

I think it's worth noting, double barrel would still be among the best weapon for ranges within 10m, with the only exception being v95, which would be a bit faster than it with this nerf.
This brings it in line with the melee weapons effort wise, but it would still be getting ttk that's a good bit faster against light, slower against medium, and almost a full second faster than sword against heavy. This nerf makes it a bit worse, but the mainq purpose is to make it take more effort to get kills with db. Rather than being an on press kill against light, now you would need to charge up a shot, effectively keeping ttk the same for sneak attacks, but making it more difficult to take fights head on. It would force db players into a playstyle similar to sword, but it would still be getting a lot more value comparatively. Currently it's up there with XP as one of the best light weapons (either the best or second best imo), and with this it would become middle of the pack, but with the skill requirements of sword.

This might be one of the only ways it's possible to raise ttk for db without absolutely gutting it. Lowering damage so it can't two tap heavy would leave it unusable, but I guess a fire rate nerf could achieve the same effect as this, but it would remain frustrating to deal with on light and it would retain all of it's movement, which is a pretty big problem, even compared to things like swords old lunge and the old backstab on dagger. If those where too strong to go without movement penalties (an argument could be made that they were, it was just handled very poorly), I don't see why db doesn't have any either.

Increasing ttk by a flat 0.5 seconds strikes a balance between making it worse but not unusable, and the movement penalty is only for .5 seconds before shooting, so it's possible to work around in the same ways that sword and dagger can. You also have dash and grapple, so movement wise it shouldn't even matter in a fight.

[shell sonnet]

it still gets countered with good aim.
which may not always be present in low elo lobby (or at least to the extend of getting mostly headshots/hitting 180° flicks on someone with burst movement) where dash past and look in their general direction with sword is much easier, but still very effective, hence leading to it being (or now used to being) problematic
this cannot just be ignored

Its less of brute forcing variety and more of trying to brute force a singular playstyle to work for everything
im not sure how your intentions are with this part, care to explain it a little more detailed?

and im not trying to compare nukes strengths to sword (nuke wins that outright), but how people try to justify their items flaws with the existence of potential counters, which themselves are flawed
people said nukes were fine because of aps, or to just shoot them first, disregarding all potential problems with it
some people argue sword was fine because glitch traps exists, or you could just avoid being indoors, while ignoring the problems that has

[ashen hawk]

now ur complaining abt rpg??? so when u realized ur losing ur argument u start speaking more non sense abt something else.
its just 30dmg. u can throw a pyro nade at someone or use a cloak to sneakily get the first shots which will do way more dmg than 30dmg.

Stop being so hypocritical. its a game.

[ashen hawk]

nah cuz u never bothered to say anything abt that.

either way, do some research pal light attack still takes two hits or one hit and a meelee to kill light.

so yeah ur not proving shit. sledge is completely fine rn. quick cash warriors like you will obliterate any weapons they lose against just so that yall can have a good time playing.

whats next? flamethrower?

[radiant orbit]

I swear if they touch flamethrower I won’t give embark another cent

[restive prairie]

cerberus is useless for no reason?

at anything higher than 8 meters, it practically does no dmg...

[normal ice]

That doesn't mean it's useless. Cerberus does insane damage up-close. Even at a distance, it can still contribute significant chip damage with fire DoT

You have Demat and multiple defensive and offensive gadgets to close the gap and 1/2/3-shot L/M/H

After throwing in a QM of course

And you honestly don't even need those tools. Sometimes I just sit in a corner with Healing Beam and pop a few shells when enemies get close. Works pretty well for me

[rose jacinth]

How often do you all see good revolver users?

[brave solar]

Rarely, but the revo is a hard weapon to use, and I think that’s a good thing. It’s a very strong weapon that rewards very good players

148 headshots are pretty crazy, if everybody had perfect aim the revo would be busted

[rose jacinth]

I'm feeling that right now for sure

[dense leaf]

Revolver is good but I suck with it

[rose jacinth]

Trying to perfect my aim with it but its difficult

[brave solar]

Idk if you’re looking for tips but I’ll drop them anyways (i play a lot of revolver)

Best advice I can give is REALLY take your time with your shots. When you ADS & shoot the entire gun including your crosshair leave the screen briefly, let your crosshair come back and recenter your aim after every shot

[rose jacinth]

Got it, I'll keep that in mind when I play next

[boreal laurel]

This is why that one revolver skin where you fan the gun is just a little bit pay-to-win 😏 if I ever start playing revolver I will 100% buy that skin

[junior forge]

opinions on some shield? honestly i think that if it worked more like gibraltar shield and had a bit more health then it would be in a better spot. damage regardless of source will still gradually take it down, but maybe add a bit more health so it doesn’t get blasted. thoughts?

i’m an m11 player, i usually focus the shield down when i can cause it gets deleted so damn fast

and since it goes through floors i can just focus it down without repurcussions

[rocky lantern]

when are they adding a sniper scope to the flamethrower?

[inland magnet]

after adding a sniper scope to dagger

[rocky lantern]

i mean they added a red dot to sledge so not out of the question

[radiant orbit]

I’d take it tbh.

[copper aspen]

They should add sniper scope to revolver and take the holo sight off the m11 bc it just looks silly

[stark dirge]

Oke,lovely people, hear me out, im of the opinion that the winch needs to be deleted A.S.A.P. and this is why. winch is the only specialization that gives you controle over your opponent, every other specialization is indirect, does have very little controle( goo gun) nor is something you can help your teammate with. which makes the winch/hammer loadout OP in every other way, this game is very close quarters as we all know, so the chances that youll be in range of a winch user is very big and when you get winched you have maybe 10% luck that you can flee, but mostly your done. I see no other reason that they must do that, the games i have when im playing with people who are using the winch/hammer combo is always saintly overpowered and its ruining my experience and every time when someone is using the winch/hammer combo on my team, we mostly win, i really thing its just dumb.

[winter jay]

goo gun can stunlock people

[stark dirge]

oke but you not getting pulled by someone

[winter jay]

so? you get stun locked and they run you down. same shit different method

[stark dirge]

but there is less controll, when you get goo'ed, youll still be able to move fairly quickly and you are not beeing full controlled by somebody who is pulling you

[winter jay]

you havent been goo'd then. you are just stuck there until the heavy walks up to you. i can at least bait winch out

[stark dirge]

its about the control aspect, winch controlles the opponent to much

[spark igloo]

I've seen literally one

[stark dirge]

ive been goo'd enough to know the experience

[spark igloo]

U can slide out of current goo

[winter jay]

its never let me do that before

[spark igloo]

I don't think anyone likes winch sledge meta but they will never nerf winch for some reason so something tells me sledge is gonna get gutted for no reason

Fixing the problem by making new problems 🙏

[winter jay]

oh joyous day we can go back to sa-12 all the time forever

[spark igloo]

Sa12 is like the perfect meta weapon

If u take winch out of the equation ofc

[winter jay]

and yet having 1 weapon be meta forever still seems boring

[spark igloo]

Most people would rather a permanent sa meta over most options

Myself included

[winter jay]

most people would rather stand on rooftops and have rifle duals the whole game. im not one of those people

[elder dock]

I never get winch-hammered, it's always the lockbolt with the hammer

[spark igloo]

I don't think anyone wants that

I think most people want a meta with a mix of rifles and cqc

[winter jay]

every time something that isnt a full auto weapon is strong people just whine about it getting nerfed

vocal minority maybe

[elder dock]

I never really see people talk about nerfing the bow, and I'd say it's pretty good

[normal ice]

you say that, but every day there's like half a dozen people still whining about melee weapons even existing

I wish they wouldn't

[winter jay]

thats becuase its kinda hard to use, so the good players are few and far between

[elder dock]

I will say, the knife deals a little too much damage, but it's range is very short so it's fair

[spark igloo]

With exception to sledge those are usually awful players

[stark dirge]

i dont care about the melee weapons, the only thing i care about is that they should disable the quickmelee and then balance it more

[plush harbor]

Nerf v9s

[normal ice]

I'll be honest, of the 6 melees, Dagger is probably the worst design. I get why people use it, but it's just not fun to fight. You almost NEVER get backstabbed because you didn't know where the Light was. You get backstabbed because they used Dash and the servers are too dogshit to realize you were still tracking his/her movement properly

It makes this dark horse balance where either it does nothing or it wipes people for free

[elder dock]

And vanish+dagger is just a bit too strong

[plush harbor]

Ain’t no way ur complaining about vanish and dagger lmao

This server is a joke holy shit 😂

[normal ice]

Nah, invis is just bad in general, sorry. It's pretty easy to see

Takes playtime to know what it looks like and sounds like

[plush harbor]

Light specs need a rework
Medium needs focuses on support and not damage
Heavy needs straight up buffs

[elder dock]

Yeah, but they always sneak in when I'm already fighting multiple people, and I never notice them then, and I'm a bow main, so I can't just spray and pray I hit them

[plush harbor]

You need awareness if ur gonna main bow
If you don’t have that don’t complain about dying to invis

[elder dock]

And the dagger backstab can instakill everything but a full HP heavy

[spark igloo]

I've never died to a dagger if you properly track them

[plush harbor]

Good

[normal ice]

Cloak and Vanish Bomb def need reworks. Should be real invis with more tradeoffs instead of the noob trapping half-invis stuff

[plush harbor]

I die to them even with tracking it’s wack

[winter jay]

i dont think ive played against a good dagger player yet

[normal ice]

Maybe you live next to the servers lol. I have it recorded

[spark igloo]

I play against the only good dagger player lol

[elder dock]

Awareness my ass, the servers lag so much it don't matter.

[spark igloo]

Just walk backwards and track them

[plush harbor]

Awareness is not ping or lag

[spark igloo]

If you're on like crazy ping you'll have issues but I play on above average and don't have issues

[plush harbor]

Ye but this guy has NA tag

[normal ice]

How do you know your ping? It doesn't show ingame

[plush harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/you-don't-invincible-omni-man-jk-simmons-that's-the-neat-thing-gif-4390372980992221432

[normal ice]

which it really should btw...

[elder dock]

Wish it showed in the TAB menu like in TF2

[normal ice]

Yes

[spark igloo]

It doesn't tell you directly but I'm central Canada so I'm always on above average ping

[elder dock]

I ALWAYS have the little "connection issues" icon on the bottom right

[spark igloo]

If you really want to fuck with a dagger player u can also predict their dashes but I've never really had to do that

Which also isn't that hard to do because you know exactly where they're trying to go

[glad bronze]

Guys is it worth to buy a light chotgun skin with bucks??

[restive plover]

we need a nama tama grenade.

[hardy dust]

I never complained about it??
I simply said all they need to do is land an rpg for 30 damage to get a confirm, which is absurdly easy. Idk how I'm being hypocritical.

[hardy dust]

I assumed you could infer it since it's the logical thing to do, but I guess I was wrong and need to spell everything out for you.

Sledge isn't the issue though, it's winch. Sledge should be untouched and winch should get reworked.

You're obviously not bothering to think at all, so I'll have to spell literally everything out for you constantly.

[hardy dust]

It doesn't really need the nerf, it has the same issue as old sword of being a noob stomper. And a 0.5s nerf is huge and would basically kill the weapon instantly.

Rn it's definitely not one of the best light weapons, it's more in the middle of the pack.

[brittle yoke]

this is very true, im p sure braq is a dagger player too and db is BRUTAL against dagger so that might sway the take a little

[hardy dust]

I love dagger too but I'm not letting that bias me

But man... db is absolutely brutal against dagger

[proper elbow]

Way too relatable. Being oneclicked when you have to go behind them to kill xD it's crazy

[brittle yoke]

yeah its a boss battle

[normal ice]

Ngl DB is simply just better than Dagger 90% of the time

[plush mountain]

How good are the throwing knives? thinking abt trying Light

[high timber]

borderline broken if you can hit consistently

[limber ingot]

dang

[plush mountain]

Potentially stupid question, what's the point of the spear? The spin seems really useless

[kindred wedge]

Good on groups in close proximity and I can NEVER block the damn thing with riot shield.

[plush mountain]

Is crowd controll really a valueble skill against teams of 3?

[limber ingot]

yeah iif they all together

[languid palm]

Fix demat and dash packet loss

[surreal mountain]

Any encounter with a grenade launcher player, i just log out the match. That gun takes to skill and is impossible to counter

[crimson rock]

they usually always win 1v1 on ligth, you just have to out position them

[surreal mountain]

EVERY match i played with one of those in the enemy team is a match i`ve lost. They just keep spamming it. Even with a full team on discord, it´s impossible, they always win the last round with that weapon

[crimson rock]

you kind of just have to outskill them, its tough

[ashen hawk]

holy. effing. shit. (TL;DR below) bro literally said he was tired of "sledge meta" and sledge being "op" which was literally what got this conversation started.

ik changing the topic of debate when u have no valid arguments and realize that u rnt cooking in the debate is an easy strategy, but trust me it dont work here

ya dont need to spell it out for me kid i already got the idea of what kind of sore loser player u are holy crap. just accept u were whining abt sledge cuz ur ass against it, now tried to bring multiple other stuff in between to try and change topics.

I suggest you give some time to ponder about sledge, winch, and their current state. You are absolutely fkd if u think winch is a problem after several nerfs to a range of 10m. Use actual logic, statistics from the wikis, and then come talk on this channel.

TL;DR

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-rage-bait-lol-lmao-gif-3554026694133497645

[plush mountain]

are melees viable or is it just a noob trap?

[ashen hawk]

they are viable to some extent.

riot shield and spear are in a good spot imo

dual blades and sword needs a bit fixing

dagger and sledge are shit rn. even tho hammer does a whole lotta damage, it can easily be evaded, especially when you have a evasive dash light with a ranged gun. he'll easily be able to dash out of the way.

Although sledgehammer is defo good in the right hands. if u master it and understand how to play against long distance players, you'll do great with it. rpg, lockbolt, goo gun, winch claw, charge and slam are exceptionally good with it

[plush mountain]

Oh really? Why’s Spear > Hammer?

I was hoping to use the spear anyways so that works out for me

[winter jay]

John semantics is here to say that I’m pretty sure that winch is at 12m. They changed it when they changed the stun time

[slender bear]

Idk, it's 100% the easiest weapon to use well. There's no mobility downsides to having such easy burst damage. It's also basically impossible for any melee weapons to go up against it, it's too easy to kill with and there's nothing you can do if you have to get close (assuming they know where you are). There's also no feedback to invis shotgun, if you get one shot the only thing you can learn from that is to look around more often. Even then, nobody's going to smell an invisible double barrel player 20m behind them. It's all luck on the victim's part, and there's very little skill required to dominate in casual or comp (speaking from personal experience).

[proper elbow]

Riot and Spear are not in a good spot.. Even dagger. 3 worse melee in the whole game for so many reasons.

Hammer is the best to play with AND against. very well balanced. Sword is good if you know what you are doing, but damage nerf should still be reverted with a fix elsewhere (like no spin2win)

dualblade are okish too

[plush mountain]

What’re the pros and cons of both hammer and spear? surely one isnt just definativley better..?

[proper elbow]

Hammer is good to deal damage, you have the right click that can setup the area for your team, because you can destroy shit easily.

It has very good combos agaisnt all classes, that are super easy to learn, like :

Left click + Quick Melee for light

Two left click + Quick melee for medium

and 3 + QM for heavies.

Also right click is quite good when take people by surprise

big burst and shit.

But Spear is awfull. It just had good range with left click, and if people are dumb and group next to you, the right click can be OP. but it depends of how dumb people are...

[plush mountain]

In my lobies? Very

[proper elbow]

then i guess you can try spear. But i know you wont have fun

Right click on spear is fennecky, you miss some hits while they are clearly in range..

Spear and dagger are the worst of the worst.

Shield is in the same boat because of how little range it has, but at least you can take a lot of attention if you play it well

Spear and Dagger have the worst hitreg of the game, no question asked

[plush mountain]

Hammer is REALLY satisfying but I keep fucking it </3

[exotic skiff]

wtf am i reading

sledge is stupid rn and pretty good

rest of melee is dog water

[oblique crypt]

they are all pretty descent, I think melee struggles in higher levels though

at least I have been able to get sledge, riot shield, and dagger to work.

[exotic skiff]

you can make every work because 98% of the people are not rlly good

[oblique crypt]

Exactly! and it's super fun.

[proper elbow]

Frustration of no hit reg is enough for me to say that not every melee are fun. But when they work as intended, yes, they are.

[plush mountain]

It is! The combos are super satisfying and I'm in bottom elo anyway

[oblique crypt]

Thas what I'm saying

[wide heart]

When is embark going to get rid of the nade launcher

It’s the most hilariously broken gun in the game and it has survived multiple rounds of nerfs

[oblique crypt]

I thought it was not that good?

[wide heart]

There are minimum 4-5 launchers in every single round of WT

It’s unbeatably good, I’ve never seen a team with 2 or more lose any round

[hardy dust]

You're talking all this shit and you don't even know what state winch is in. You keep saying completely incorrect things as fact (like winch having 10m, it's 12m) and then saying to check the wiki (which you obviously haven't done). Your hypocrisy is actually insane.

[wide heart]

It’s just 5 RPGs on an immediate reload

[hardy dust]

All you've been doing is putting words in my mouth and then going off about how things I never said are wrong, while being wrong yourself.

[surreal mountain]

I might quit this game today. It´s so unbalanced with some weapons tbh

Every match with a grenade launcher player, i just log out and wait 10 minutes

[exotic skiff]

Why does people cry about grenade launcher when the weapons is not even top 5 best medium weapons

[surreal mountain]

Using it is a free win. New players with no skill just spam it and win automatically

It´s just enfuriating not being able to counter it with anything

[winter jay]

Aps turret, walking up to them, taking high ground all work

[exotic skiff]

It's not a free win at all the weapons is not even that good

Take fcar, FAMAS, cerb, pike, akm.... And you will destroy them easily

[restive plover]

Tbh I'm two weeks into the game...that thing sucks. Like it's easily countered by just running at the user

[surreal mountain]

It´s even harder as a light

[vague verge]

counters include: walking closer, using aps, goo, height, any movement abillity, and simply not picking light as it directly counters him but has mid performance against all other classes

[dim flume]

this is absolutely crazy to read

[vague verge]

Its my go to pick if im med and the enemy is mostly lights

otherwise its dogshit

[dim flume]

find 1 meter elevation and the thing is neutered

[vague verge]

EMBED FAILURE

SUICIDE NO LONGER POSTPONED

honestly when I do play light I have trouble with it as its users often know how to position themselves correctly before firing and its difficult to properly outplay

but the same can be said about DB, the m11, and the old stun gun

if it becomes too much of an issue (it won't but lights are majority so embark always listens to them) just nerfing fire rate to make it easier to run away from should work

[restive plover]

Use the burst pistol it's such a nice change of pace

[dim flume]

I'd rather face a medium with GL than one with pike

[north perch]

what could i swap zip with

[spice vigil]

goo

medium meta is all kinda the same when it comes to gadgets
or a mine if youre into that

[north perch]

can jump goo be on any medium build? i use it on most of my other ones

[spice vigil]

pretty much yeah

[exotic skiff]

Double movement is better imo

You rlly want to be fast or you gonna loose tempo / macro

[north perch]

ok what about with cerb though. since u can easily light the goo

[restive plover]

Goo is great you can use it to angle your jump pad so you get more distance

[exotic skiff]

both are good, just depend how you play in general

[north perch]

yeah im practiting that im just really slow at it rn

[restive plover]

Samesies but it's worth learning

[exotic skiff]

pretty much the same having a zip but usefull to engage fight

[dim dome]

i beg you devs please make melee weapons good again i cant stand it anymore 1 you half to hold heavy attack on knife and sword 2 you cant hold down to auto light attack just at least make it a setting because they are major nerfs i only play this game because of the knife and sword and this makes me very sad

[merry imp]

Setting it up at the cash box when someone is stealing it from you works good. If the setting allows, you can stick it the right height above the box and suck it up into the air its cool. Using it conjunction with dots like gas work well for multi kills. Works well if you have a gateway with it too you can stick it on a gas can or something and throw it into the gateway and set off the gravity on the other side (like on the box). Works well if you have a flamethrower guy around too. I wouldn't be surprised if it changed direction of an incoming projectile but I haven't played with it that much to find out. You can stick it to certain places on the map and suck people off the map too I did that in Seoul before.

It takes so long to level up aps smh

[sturdy vessel]

Why are you doing that dawg

[amber ermine]

can someone showcase the alfa acta arn sponsor skin?

[obsidian nexus]

can xp54 have A downside? just any? just so its not objectively the best gun?

[plush harbor]

Doesn’t have best range
Doesn’t have best reload
Doesn’t have best mag size
Doesn’t have best rof
Doesn’t have best damage
Doesn’t have best hipfire

[obsidian nexus]

in all those catagories, if u want to have the most forgiving, most versatile but still EXTREMELY viable and extremely strong option. then its a no brainer. xp54 is just the best.

[obsidian nexus]

if it had the best range + best reload + best mag size + best rof + best dmg + best hipfire. then u would have an m11 that shoots sniper headshots with hitscan and the magsize of the arn. like. this reply makes NO sense at all

[plush harbor]

It isn’t the best gun

Hence why I made my post showing why it isnt

You’ve got shit like cerb famas pike being untouched for seasons

Only getting tiny minuscule nerfs that change nearly nothing

Not to mention they’re also on the best class in the game

[vivid garden]

CERB ONLY CAME OUT LAST SEASON LOL

[plush harbor]

Still been rampant for a season and a half

[merry imp]

How is it the best class that's some bull

[vivid garden]

all of those weapons have been in the last few patch notes

[indigo nexus]

It does; but it is kind of the most middle-of-the-road weapon, and hence it would be its own comparator by default which would make it hard to describe any upside or downside without speaking in relation to a separate weapon. The moment another weapon is used as the comparator we can easily define downsides.

There are no weapons that the XP is objectively superior to.

[warm ginkgo]

I propose the ARN - I just can't get any decent damage with it

[upper monolith]

Maybe buff Pyro grenade too?

[warm ginkgo]

what???

Fire damage is ridiculous as it is

[upper monolith]

That's why I said maybe, it could use a Lil love tho maybe even the poison one too

[warm ginkgo]

gas nade needs a shorter fuse I think

[upper monolith]

Ehhh prob not cause then you can't throw it far

[warm ginkgo]

@dusky field that would be broken because you could just tell your teammates where the enemies are exactly, and they'd be effectively detected for a few seconds.

[plush harbor]

as if there isn’t a billion different esp exploits in the game rn unpatched

[warm ginkgo]

Doesn't mean they need to add more

[plush harbor]

Trve…

[dusky field]

True true

[civic forum]

Cl40 nerf?

[indigo nexus]

it has much better range, less recoil and a better mag economy.

[plush mountain]

What are some good heavy weapons?

Ive only used the hammer so far, think I might try a shotgun/flamethrower

[dusky field]

Lewis, Shak 50, SA12, M60 (?) and Deagles are all good imo

[plush mountain]

Deagles being the Akimbo?

[normal ice]

As funny as Flamethrower is, it's honestly usually beat out by Sledge, SA12, or even Minigun. The main two niches of Flamethrower are piercing enemies and lighting fire to goo/gas, but the damage is so low that it's often hard to justify.

Good option if you run into the incredibly rare occurrence of a good Riot Shield or Dual Blades player, though lmao

[exotic skiff]

ur missing minigun

[plush mountain]

Yeahhh- Dealing sustained damage is never really as good as bursts

[dusky field]

Oh yeah i forgor about Minigun ngl

[dusky field]

Yes

[plush mountain]

I love the spear so much whys it gotta be so bad </3

[indigo nexus]

I'd say lewis is a bit niche now and the shak is only good if you have very strong aim.

[normal ice]

Spear is honestly not that bad. It's just largely outclassed by Sledge because of its terrain destruction.

[indigo nexus]

Simple fix, play it for long enough that it becomes no longer bad to you

(I believe this choice negatively impacted my abilities to use any ranged weapon)

[normal ice]

Theoretically speaking, Spear's uses over Sledge are its longer range and AoE spin, but neither are really that meaningful

The spin just feels clunky af for all parties involved

[plush mountain]

Exactly yeah

The idea of trading off raw damage in exchange for utility is EXACTLY what I like in games like this, but utility provided just isnt useful-

Maybe I should look at other classes melees?

[indigo nexus]

it only gets worse from there...

[normal ice]

Medium's melees are all about utility :)

But they are, well, not very strong, either

[indigo nexus]

riot shield would be good if there was much consistency to its effect. Blocking is affected by latency and some enemies are insanely good at shooting past the shield. And that and dual blades both are arbitrarily countered by some weapons. Don't have the luxury of heavy's options for preventing enemy escapes either

[normal ice]

Indeed

[indigo nexus]

Light melee options are 1. fun but kinda just weak and 2. hard to use and inconsistent, for now.

[normal ice]

Also, I really wish you could just cancel your swings into deflecting with Dual Blades. You can gadget swap to do it, but why can't they just let you hold right click? It's so unintuitive and annoying

[indigo nexus]

I think the input buffer is too big myself.

[normal ice]

Yes, that too

[plush mountain]

I kinda wanna get the spear just to try it,but I know its a waste of resources

[indigo nexus]

not really

the differences between weapon viabilities aren't big enough that it will have a substantial impact on the experience

that is to say it's a waste specifically if you're really going for ranked rewards and don't care about anything else.

[warm ginkgo]

The shotguns are both cooked imo

flamethrower is fun but not much good against other heavies

[stiff vine]

mythic sledgehammer skin idea

[zinc lark]

is r .357 valid

[warm ginkgo]

Yes, it has very good damage output if you can aim, but watch out for it leaving lights on 2hp after 2 body shots or 1 headshot

[indigo nexus]

It really is a very difficult weapon to use to its full potential. But its raw potential is amazing.

You can theoretically wipe a full squad of mediums in two seconds (of course this has almost never actually happened)

Personally my aim isn’t great but the gun’s still fun to use due to its good hipfire

[radiant orbit]

That makes me fume occasionally

[radiant orbit]

It’s incredibly versatile if you can get the hang of it. The quick reload, accurate hipfire, and high burst damage also makes it particularly well suited for support heal beam builds.

[zinc lark]

im struggling with whiffing then getting caught with my pants down reloading

although sometimes is just double dink everyone in sight

and its really fun

[radiant orbit]

My secret is aiming for the chest when on the move, my natural inaccuracy will just make headshots happen occasionally.

[zinc lark]

what the heck is comp format

i just queued my first game and see one billion teams

[warm ginkgo]

My aim isn't the best so I often end up with an empty gun and a light with an SMG easily killing me while on 2hp. Most infuriating thing ever, especially when they won't sit still for a millisecond

[warm ginkgo]

Anyone know how to use the riot shield viably?

[civic forum]

Smg and pistols non hitscan after certain distances as an idea like the sniper

[sleek jetty]

bro heavys are so fat i cant kill them with one clip

[warm ginkgo]

That's just overly punishing though, SMGs are already incredibly inaccurate and have low damage over long range. Pistols are designed for any range so there's no problem here

[warm ginkgo]

They die to 5 body shots if you can hit them

[warm ginkgo]

I can't find a loadout that works and I die real fast to automatic weapons if I try to attack

[sleek jetty]

with what gun?

[warm ginkgo]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the revolver

[sleek jetty]

oh alr lol

[oblique crypt]

Try and stay indoors, and play with your team. Force enemies to either attack you (where you just block the damage and let your teammates shoot them) or your teammates (allowing you to close the gap).

[boreal laurel]

You can win almost any 1v1 in close quarters if you know your movement. Use lots of mix-ups—change direction erratically while you close in. Learn to bishop—run diagonally toward enemies with your left side facing them to block as you run. And be motivated by the fact that you get to 2- or 3-tap your target once you reach him 😄 it’s so satisfying

[hardy plume]

I just can’t use it l

[dusky field]

(lvl 10 Riot shield main) you force enemies to fight you, know your movement (basicially the most important part of melee in general), if you chase for too long just leave atp and return to your team, utilize quick melee combos (mostly med, light only if you know they took dmg before and heavy only sometimes)

[spark igloo]

define viable. Because riot shield will never be viable against someone competent

[dusky field]

Also CueZeRiot has probably the best Riot shield guide out there. Watch it

[indigo nexus]

Not really. They have no spread while aiming down sights, and their hipfire is typically not bad

[copper hazel]

what's even the point of this change if their effective range is still below 40m

[ashen hawk]

spear is more beginner friendly. sledge is difficult to use even tho it does way more damage. so if ur a good player then defo use sledge, the only prob i was talking abt was the small hit register and slow rate of attack for the weapon, plus extremely vulnerable at long distance fights.

@winter jay imo 12m is still short asf. change to 15m. not more than that, but 15m is completely fine. ppl who constantly keep crying abt winch "stunning ppl" have no idea that you can easily evade after ur winched and the fact that the guy thats using the winch is technically stunned as well, since he cant do shit when winching either.

i didnt rank this based on quality. it was mostly ease of use. since the guy who asked was tagged "I'm new, say hi!" so was prob a beginner.
still, i agree that sledge is prob one fo teh best meelees, never said it should be buffed.
dagger is horrible, riot shield isnt THAT bad, it could use some fixing but is still pretty good tbh. spear needs some fixing too, but im unclear what the fixing should actually be since their good in their own way but still underused

@exotic skiff wtf i can tell u misunderstood. **i was ranking based on ease of use. NOT how good it is. ** sledge is damn good, but other meelees like dual blades and riot is good in the right hands, needs some fixing here and there. dagger is ass. but spear and riot are still the easiest to use meelees, which was what i was tryna explain

[warm ginkgo]

If dagger is ass, how come there are games where I get stabbed every 3 seconds like I'm in London

[hardy dust]

bc you're up against good players

[ashen hawk]

Kid better to keep quiet. I haven't checked the wiki? Alright. Read the shit.

Winch is useless against meelees. Useless against shotguns. Thats like a big bunch of the weapons in the game.

Winch was nerfed in previous patches in order to reduce the distance the winch can move the cashout, etc. so there goes your problem of moving objective.

Winch stun duration is only 0.3s or 0.65s. I know you don't have the brain cells to figure out how less that is, but its okay you can live with your delusion.

When the winch is activated the user cannot use any weapon or gadget when the winch is happening. So its a double-edged sword. You winch someone and you end up in a vulnerable state.

12m is still low asf. Before typing nonsense and telling me I dont know what I'm talking about, ask yourself how much YOU knew about when u were talking the bs. You realize the winch's range is lower than an effing data reshaper right? DR has a range of 21m. An assault rifle can hit the heavy from distances much further than 12m, so they don't even have to get in that range and can keep easily evading lmao. Use fckn logic before coming and whining on this channel.

Mf search the meaning of hypocrisy

Lol I can already see this guy started replying as soon as I sent the message meaning that he probably didn't even try to understand or reason with anything, meaning he's just going to say the same stuff over and over again.

[hardy dust]

can be unfavorable -> bc a melee or shotgun wants to be up close (guess what, sledge IS a melee) the thing literally says "when the user is not using a melee weapon"
winch stun duration still exists, and 0.3-0.65s is still a significant margin, just not as overpowered as before. It already puts the enemy in the perfect position for you
I dont get how you keep ignoring winch is super strong because of teamplay, it puts them into a position perfect for your team and guarantees (Yes guarantees) a kill as long as your team isnt absolute dogshit
12m is still significant, especially since sledge has less than 12m (just making sure you know), it gives it a very large advantage. comparing it data reshaper is stupid since data reshaper has great range for a piece of util.
yeah no shit ars can shoot more than 12m? idk what you're trying to prove. unless you play sledge in the open often (which wouldnt surprise me tbh) you can play around that. especially with sledge's destruction to take advantage of have 12m to engage on sledge. once again, you provide absolutely nothing.

[warm ginkgo]

The stun duration seems a little mean though - I can never kill a light with sledge before they escape.

[waxen cosmos]

dagger isn't "ass"

shure it's not "meta" but everything is balanced so well that it does not matter unless you are in high elo ranked

[hardy dust]

you shouldnt tho. it doesnt make sense to have a guaranteed kill on a light bc you landed a single hit with a very large projectile

and if you have a teammate it is a guaranteed kill

[hardy dust]

it kinda is, its just players are bad enough you can do fine with it most of the time

[hot haven]

Best mate 😄

[slender bear]

Ngl it would be pretty funny if they just gave medium another spec this season. Light hasn't gotten a single new one, and it would be pretty on brand to give medium it's second new spec before light gets it's first.

[radiant orbit]

I have the sneaking suspicion we might just get another pile of weapons like we have the last two seasons

Not that I’d turn my nose up at something (anything) interesting for medium.

But yeah light should probably get a spec.

[slender bear]

That might be worse. Weapons are cool, but ANY new spec would be much more welcome. They change up the game so much more.

[radiant orbit]

I want gadgets galore too. Thats what really turns the tide of the meta.

[radiant orbit]

Exactly yeah

[slender bear]

Apparently medium hasn't gotten a new gadget since season 2, so it would be cool if they could get a second new one.

Maybe light gets a spec, and medium and heavy both get new gadgets. Heavy could also get a new weapon, but they just got minigun, which is a banger of a new weapon.

[radiant orbit]

I’ve been running a basically identical loadout for about 300 hrs of game time lol

Heal Beam, Revolver/Cerb, Defib, Jump Pad, Grenade. Data reshaper motion censor and aps in reserve, sometimes the zipline if I’m feeling spicy.

Hey it’s fun but I have had no reason to change anything since mid s5.

I’d be very happy to have a reason to change any of that set up.

[slender bear]

They'll probably give medium a healing grenade tbh.

[radiant orbit]

I’d get rid of my nade and go full support.

Fuck Zenyatta I’m a Mercy main now.

On the other hand a sidearm spec for med would be fun. Go full boots on the ground cod mode.

[cerulean locust]

AKM and FCAR what are the advantages and disadvantage of one over the other? Or is AKM simply the better pick?

[radiant orbit]

They’re both boring. FCAR recoils less, does better at range, and kills quicker but has a teeny tiny mag so if you miss more than a shot or two you lose the engagement. AKM has more bullets, and theoretically a higher amount of damage possible per mag, but kills slower with higher recoil a slower reload and a steeper range falloff

Basically, assuming perfect aim then the AKM will do better as a team fighting and support tool in the close to mid range but the FCAR will win out in every 1 on 1 and every ranged engagement.

[slender bear]

If anything, I think we might be getting that on light. The official YouTube channel posted a video a bit ago of someone doing the new dagger inspection, then pulling out a sniper rifle and doing a 360 scoped shot. It would be interesting on light as well, but it would honestly fit medium so much better.

[exotic skiff]

fcar is way better in every aspect

just harder to play

[radiant orbit]

Not really true but alright

[exotic skiff]

better ttk, better range and better hipfire

[radiant orbit]

I’m not having this conversation

[exotic skiff]

it's just on paper that why i said harder

[north perch]

Winch Claw
Shak
Dome
Rpg

what other gadget should I do? new to the game and newer to heavy

[exotic skiff]

u need barricade or goo

[unkempt summit]

Dagger needs a bigger hotbox bro 🙏

[spring atlas]

One thing AKM does an Itty bitty bit between is killing multiple people with one mag. But even then, it hardly overcomes the FCAR

[spark igloo]

because you have to look at them

[spark igloo]

winch is useless against melees

lol

winch is an incredibly good counter to sword, dagger, and sledge

sword and dagger because the winch cancels the weapon charges, stuns, prevents escape, and prevents util

sledge for the same reasons except instead of canceling charges it cancels overheads which can completely ruin a sledge combo and it's ttk

[spark igloo]

c4 if you're playing an objective gamemode

[north perch]

wt and ranked

[spark igloo]

yes c4 then

[north perch]

its manual remote detonate right

[spark igloo]

yeah, always have a drop set up when defending to cancel steals

[north perch]

alright how do i know when to drop

[spark igloo]

when someone starts stealing

[north perch]

is there a noise that plays?

[spark igloo]

yes and the cashout icon will flash red

you'd usually wait a bit before dropping to stall out a steal but if u wait too long they can steal while falling

[north perch]

is it guarneeted to cancel once they hitr the floor

[spark igloo]

rarely they'll be able to steal

but you can add a second c4 a floor down to do a "double drop" to completely rule that out

Ive never seen a steal stick through two drops or any height like that

[north perch]

alright is that usually worth it

[spark igloo]

if you arent actively fighting there's really no reason not to

[north perch]

what about 2 on the vault itself. does it do good damage

[fiery basin]

howdy gang. hate to interrupt - is this chat just for weapons/gadgets functionally or is skin discussion also ok?

[spark igloo]

it often does great damage but comes at the downside of being either shot out by enemies or not guaranteeing a steal denial

[north perch]

hm ok

[spark igloo]

by putting c4 between the cashout and the floor (placing c4 on the side of a box and knocking it over, covering the c4) or putting the c4 on the roof of the floor under the cashout you pretty much guarantee a steal stop

[warm ginkgo]

#🔥┇drip-check

[fiery basin]

thank you. sorry, getting used to the server

[warm ginkgo]

No worries

[north perch]

hows this support build? i usually snipe on a roof then drop down to heal heavy if we get pushed

[slender bear]

What if light got a drone spec similar to crypto's from apex? The EMP thing wouldn't be a part of it because that doesn't really fit here, but I think it would be pretty cool to tap more into the scouting capabilities of light.

It also wouldn't do the scan thing that lets you see enemies through walls. The only scouting it would do would be allowing you to see from the drone's perspective.

It should probably have a cooldown and recall system similar to guardian turret, but pressing the spec button while it is deployed would allow you to see from the drone's perspective and control it. It should travel a lot faster than spectator mode, and have lockbolt health.

I think it should still be able to open doors though.

[boreal laurel]

A drone would be cool, I would just question its actual usefulness given how insanely fast The Finals can move. Info on where enemies are changes moment by moment, and being locked into watching a drone’s POV would kind of limit how much you could leverage the intel you gathered. I could see it work as a team support thing I guess. Either way, a drone would be awesome if it could be implemented in a way that meshes with The Finals as it plays right now

[spice vigil]

nerf this oppressive Gl meta

[winter jay]

give a pop up screen and you control with the arrow keys

[slender bear]

I feel like the only way to make it work in the finals would be to give it crazy movement speed. I kind of figured going ~1.5x the speed of spectator mode would allow for fast enough area scans, while you could clear buildings quickly by opening doors and doing quick sweeps. To work in a game as fast paced as this though, I think the switch between your perspective and the drone's (and vice versa) would have to be nearly instant to make it usable.

[winter jay]

what if you could control both at the same time. like you could walk around and move the drone. it sounds a little brain melting but it could be cool

[slender bear]

It sounds like it would keep the pace up, but since the only value you get from the drone is what you see through its perspective, you would have to account for the fact that the drone is moving twice as far as you walk. Imagine trying to sweep a whole building with your drone and you leave it to find yourself in completely different place than where you started 😭

[winter jay]

thats what i mean by the popup window. or like you control it with a tablet. it wouldnt take up ur whole screen

[slender bear]

I guess that would work, but if you were controlling both at the same time, you would still have to move your character in order to move the drone. For complicated sequences like going in and out of rooms, you would be very limited by having to make sure your character doesn't go somewhere you don't want it while you do your thing.

[winter jay]

thats why i said arrow keys

would probably be clunky though

[slender bear]

How would that work on console?

[winter jay]

ill be honest i didnt think about that

i havent turned on my xbox in years

[slender bear]

It would be cool if you could make them both work at the same time though. Put it on the top corner of the screen, with a second controller plug in. You could just play with your feet lol

[boreal laurel]

I could see that working. I would say then to make it a little easier to kill so as to reward skill shots on it. Lockbolt HP would be a bit much for something moving so fast. Also, as much as I love reshaper, a drone would probably have to be immune to reshaping

[slender bear]

Oh yeah it could have something more like 100 hp so it can still get one shot by things like snipers. I also just realized crypto's drone size is way too small for the finals, it should be something more like a slightly smaller APS turret. I don't really think it needs to be immune to reshaping, since it's really the user's fault if they bring it close enough to be reshaped or if they leave it somewhere, especially when things like guardian turret also get reshaped. I'm also thinking that it should be glitchable, but it would still be recallable and the glitch would only mess with it's vision, so it isn't rendered completely useless.

[neon ivy]

BUFF SNIPER

[north perch]

You could look at a point like how you would mark it and click a bindable button for it to move towards or a different one for it to move away from that point. Then just give it good pathfinding

[hardy plume]

That sounds like a great idea

I feel like a gadget that started the heal process of only your character would be nice

[hardy plume]

Wtf for?!?!

[ashen hawk]

Yikes. Bro really ain't giving up on his shit is he?

Riot shield can block sledge attacks. So if I winch in a riot shield, he'll just kill me instead now that I'm in his range. If I winch in a sword bro can literally evasive dash lunge into me the second the winch is over. Sword vs Sledge is usually just a sword win.

It's not a significant margin. Its less than the HALF of a second. Guess I was right, this guy really doesn't have the brain cells to comprehend does he.

If winch really is super strong because of teamplay, that's nothing to do with it being nerfed. Winch can pull them where you team wants, nice. But that's not OP. That's just teamplay. You wanna go on and start nerfing stuff because theyre good at teamplay now? Good. Make this game into COD or smthng.

And I'll remind you that gateway is ten times stronger than winch in teamplay, it puts cashouts and cashboxes, plus projectiles and your opponents into the place you want. Peak manipulation. So make sure to go there and nerf that thing as well.

Of course you don't know what I'm trying to prove. Ur simply just too dumb to understand. Allow me. I'm an effing medium with an AKM and I'm standing at a distance of 20m away from a sledge, and constantly running from him as I stop a bit to shoot him constantly. He cant winch me at a distance of 20m. Same goes for me with an ARN. By the time he comes close enough to me, IF he does, I would've already killed him. Half of every map is open spaces, and winch works shit in that.

Just play with the winch yourself fgs. Try playing in the Seoul Mall area. You'll realize all the skill issue that's oozing out of you every time you get killed by someone not being able to compete against evasive dash, jump pad, etc. using winch.

Sad to see people whine about stuff they lose against just so they could have it easier for them.

**Once again, *you * provide absolutely nothing, **which I expected from idiots like you anyways.

[icy sparrow]

I get the idea u will like this because of ur username

Add claymore sword for medium class,primary attacks r wide swings 170 degrees and holding alt attack blocks half the damage and deflect only a few but releasing it after holding it does a downward slash and the higher the damage the higher u fall so u can use dematerialise spec to attack players downward and surprise attacks,good combo with jump pad for very high damage,claymore has more to do with positioning rather then combo which duel blades is quicker at combo

Also u played voin?
It’s like that but only the primary and secondary attacks

[placid slate]

After minimal thought, I have come to the conclusion that since sledge has both damage and utility, and the spear is generally just damage, they should make the primary fire of the spear kill faster than the sledge hammer

Since sledge has burst damage and destruction, its only fair that spear should have better dps

Atlest on the primary attack, we can figure out shit for the spin later

[heavy tendon]

I’d feel the deflect would compete with dual blades. Maybe just have it eat the damage like on a Titanfall ronin but have a ‘durability’ metre so someone can’t chill in a corner with the parry raised all the time

[pulsar drift]

👀

[indigo nexus]

the range is a rather important factor. If it killed equally fast to the sledge, it would be much better for damage in practice.

[placid slate]

Correct

[mighty flax]

Controller ?

[placid slate]

Doesn't even have to be that much damage, adding 5 damage to the weapon would immediately make it good

[pulsar drift]

Whats best keyboard or controler, i feel its good with controler when i use meela weapons but with guns its keyboard and mouse for sure, whats your opinion and I'm pretty equally good with keyboard mouse, and a x box layout controler and i feel i good in all the classes and i don't have a static team to play with anyone suggest me something to slove my situation.

[neon ivy]

sniper on top

[coral root]

M320 for medium to do environment destruction

[coral root]

Its a better idea than your little srss sofia

[pulsar drift]

how to kill heavy with light

whats the best lode out for s and m

[radiant orbit]

Shoot them with gun

[pulsar drift]

wow thats what i really miss to do, never knew that before, thanks for it.

[placid slate]

Don't forget to not die either

[radiant orbit]

I mean it’s one of the more favorable matchups in the game. I dunno what to tell you.

[pulsar drift]

That what doing compelety opposite. just dieing every single time , maybe i'm a bumb.

[vague monolith]

The game is balanced, but I don't really enjoy the game where it's at rn

[ashen hawk]

Yoooo this idea is act sick. Bro really read my mind with this claymore thing. But to make a bit more different from dual blades, the claymore would have a stamina limit so it doesn't block infinitely and scatters the bullets randomly but faster, so there's slightly more damage. Bonus idea could be that upon each bullet blocked there's a rage meter that could fill up which makes you hit and move a bit faster to a certain limit.

But ngl that sounds a bit too rpg-like and will prob make it too complicated.

Anyways gr8 idea would fit perfectly with a medieval season

[radiant orbit]

Try the M26 it kills in three at a decent range.

[pulsar drift]

sure mate i'll try...

[plain harness]

They should add a gas mask to this game, for the gas mines and grenades so you don't choke out on your own fart.

[rare pecan]

This is actually brilliant, it would be even better if it slightly reduced the lessened vision effects from other gadgets in exchange for a slot, somewhat like a passive skill.

I feel that way it wouldn't feel super underpowered just blocking the damage of gas, that kinda feels like a targeted nerf to gas

Also Colombia map when

[hazy spoke]

DOES THE ARN HAVE MORE DPS THANB THE XP now ?

[slender bear]

According to the wiki, yes.
AKM too.
It's pretty unreliable though.

[gusty relic]

Is the sword ever gonna gets its dmg back?

[slender bear]

Probably not.
At least with the newly abysmal lunge damage, there's a chance we might see charge time buffs.
It would still be pathetic, but it would be more fun to use.
I honestly wouldn't mind if it was on tap at this point.

[radiant orbit]

I dig it, no gas damage, lessened flash effects maybe? I feel like it needs one more effect but idk, better smoke visability maybe? Reduced headshot damage?

Could make it like a bubble shield that deploys over your head, that’d make it compatible with all the head cosmetics.

Unrelated I still think the Cerberus should proc fire easier, mostly on objects like goo and gas but players too.

[slender bear]

I like the gas and flash things, but giving it the utility of thermal vision (minus invis sight) might be a bit too much if it's passive. Why would you even use thermal at that point?

[swift cradle]

Never engage from the front. If you do, you need to land headshots

This usually applies to both medium and heavy in most situations tho.

[indigo nexus]

No.

[swift cradle]

Only at max dmg fall off range

[indigo nexus]

here's a ttk comparison of them

so arn kills faster >= 25m range

[hazy spoke]

alr tyvm

[restive plover]

What weapons and gadgets are any good anymore? I haven’t played in like a year

[gusty relic]

Alr so if sword is never gonna be good again what else is there to counter heavy?

[edgy skiff]

wrong chat wtf. what am i doing here

[slender bear]

Nothing for now, except for light's current strengths like movement or stealth. You've got to play really well and put in more effort than any other class. Light is really bad right now, but that's only because light players fight to do well despite their limitations, and the devs mistake that for the class being good.

[indigo nexus]

you are saying that the class's performance is unfairly inflated because light players have more dedication or something?

that doesn't really work since the predicates involved would only imply the class was middle of the road at worst

[slender bear]

I'm so cooked, I had to look up what predicates means 😭

I agree, light is performing OK for now, but trying out other classes has led me to believe that light just takes more effort. I recently tried out heavy for the first time and it's so easy. I just did the usual stuff, like playing with my team, staying aware of my surroundings, taking up good positions, etc, and I do so much better on heavy it's like night and day.
On light, those are all mandatory if you don't want to get absolutely stomped in casual. On heavy some of them are just kind of optional if you want to do well in world tour, but putting in as much effort on heavy as I do on light lets me dominate.
What I'm saying is that light currently takes a lot more effort to achieve basic performance, but it is still treated like a strong class that overperforms (although they said something in patch notes before about it performing the worst of all three classes) when most of the time when people struggle against light players it's because those players put in so much effort to make things work.
It's harder to dodge bullets than it is to strap on Kevlar.

[indigo nexus]

I feel it’s a bit of a double edged sword, because in the same way light have the best ability to get out of a bad situation and into a good one (and compared to heavy, that’s by a very big margin), which acts in opposition to how the class would otherwise be the most punishing. I’ve seen a lot of mixed opinions on how hard light is to run exactly, so I view the information we have to work with as inconclusive on this matter.

But light appears, in practice, viable at all skill levels, these days.

Formerly it was especially less present in high elo, which would have suggested the situation was the other way around if taken in isolation.

[slender bear]

Light's movement is certainly something that the developers would struggle to balance the class around. It has the highest skill ceiling of all three classes by far, but at the same time the workable skill floor is so much higher. Performing well on light requires you to utilize every tool at your disposal, with much less room for mistakes than other classes are allowed.
In short, you do everything in your power to make the class work and it's because light is broken, but if you don't do well it's simply because you're bad. The Finals' community has a wierd double standard when it comes to the relationship between good performance and strength.

[plush mountain]

I wanna try out light for the first time, what're some good weapons? Looking mostly at the SMGs so I can get used to the movement and low hp

[indigo nexus]

I think speaking in terms of skill ceilings is not that important since no human comes that close to them. But if we were to do so anyway? I think there’d be a solid case for revolver mediums…

I don’t agree that the workable skill floor is higher (assuming by skill floor you mean competence floor. in my opinion people mostly use the word incorrectly as they apply unintuitively different logic to the definitions of skill floor and ceiling). Anecdotal, but all my friends who have played, none of them ever had any issue getting into the class and everyone seems capable of using it similarly well to any other. I’ve casually observed a trend of players at particularly low levels of skill complaining of light being too skill-less more than anyone else. I am just not convinced this is a real thing.

[plush harbor]

Stop speaking in long unreadable paragraphs

[indigo nexus]

tiktok attention span…….

[slender bear]

When I say workable skill floor, I mean the minimum skill required to achieve average performance (getting kills, defending cashout, not dying constantly). I don't thing "workable skill floor" is an actual term, I just made it up :(

[slender bear]

These aren't even beyond and 8th grader's comprehension level. I don't even know what to tell you at this point.

[plush mountain]

Is the ARN-220 good?
The larger range for less damage sounds like a good tradeoff

[plush harbor]

im on a phone these are page long to me

[hardy dust]

I'm starting to understand how you find winch has no value, considering you can't even beat a winched riot shield with sledge...

Half a second is still just about the same time as it takes to kill a light. That seems pretty significant.

Gateway is stronger sure, but it's on a different class, requires much more setup, isn't an unfun cc option and actually a healthy piece of util for the game. Winch is just "hit this huge projectile and get kill". You can't seem to understand that certain things are strong and healthy (completely fine) while other are average/strong and unhealthy (should be reworked, which is what I said about winch. REWORKED). You're saying half the map is open space. That means half the map is super strong for you, plus, winch and sledge give you plenty of map manipulation. You're talking about seoul mall, you can stand below the cashout or vault defaults to drop them to force enemies up close. The mall is layered in multiple floors, use sledge to engage people from either below or above. No wonder you find sledge bad, you're probably just running at them in a straight line and wondering how you're dying.

Once again, you're providing nothing, and also brushing off everything constructive (whether it be a point or criticism) and going off on a useless tangent.

[indigo nexus]

Probably a weird thing to post, but I drew some diagrams a couple of years ago to demonstrate my ideas about this terminology

left = how most people use the term
right = how I think makes sense

[plush harbor]

this channel is awesome because it’s full of stupid takes that are fun to read

[indigo nexus]

If you would please consult the graphs #💣┇weapons-gadgets message

It’s subjective and will depend on your skill level and playstyle.

[plush mountain]

I have no idea what that graph means-

[indigo nexus]

guns with especially poor time to kills (and without burst capacity) tend to never be meta, but that only matters if you’re a relatively very good player

[indigo nexus]

It should explain itself… it’s a time-to-kill graph over distance

[plush mountain]

im not good with graphs-

So they're both good right..?

[indigo nexus]

Depends who you ask.

[plush harbor]

how are u not good with graphs

[indigo nexus]

Most people agree XP is good. I think most people disagree ARN is good.
Realistically it barely matters.

[plush mountain]

idk the lines are confusing, I'm better with words, they all just blend together and it gets hard to read

[slender bear]

I think the right makes more sense, but it depends on how you view skill. I use the term "workable skill floor" because I think it matters more how hard it is to do OK than it does how bad someone can be at a game. If somebody doesn't know how to jump or move around, it doesn't matter which class they are on, they aren't getting anything done. An absolute skill floor is universal for all three classes, but a "workable" one would be used to determine how much effort it takes for each individual class to do well.

[indigo nexus]

Not exactly, since a bottom-of-the-barrel player attempting to use each class may perform differently between them. But that works otherwise

[shadow agate]

does bow or the double barrel have a higher skill ceiling?

[indigo nexus]

I would definitely say bow

or… almost definitely.

killing a player “perfectly” with the double barrel is not exactly impressive, and nor will it mean you actually made a good play, since you are super prone to quickly dying with that thing. If you could line up bow headshots at decent range, that burst damage is insane

[shadow agate]

it just takes a long time to master?

i feel like the db was really easy to pick up and get a lot of kills with

[indigo nexus]

and from a relative standpoint I would say more to gain with the bow as you got better. You don’t have to worry about reloads, but you do have to worry about charge times, velocity and headshots, with aim playing a bigger role.

[indigo nexus]

If your aim is decent then yeah, the skills required to use it well against most of the playerbase are kind of common sense based.

Bow is insanely hard to use near its full potential

It’s not meta because humans just can’t do that.

[shadow agate]

alright so maybe start playing bow when i have more gamesense? i started again pretty recently

[indigo nexus]

If you like.

Bow’s skill requirements aren’t much to do with tactics though, being mostly mechanical to some degree

[shadow agate]

alright

[north perch]

should i add glitch trap to reserver

[mighty flax]

damn son , what you playing ? wt ? ranked ? and with who ? solo queue ?

[north perch]

duo with demat or solo q. wt and ranked

[mighty flax]

then it depends on what you'll replace with a gt

I think gas mine or zipline might be the weakest things in your loadout

[north perch]

yeah im not usually sure when to actually use gas mine

[mighty flax]

rlly good on objectives you know are hard to move (cramped spaces and shit like that) , sucks on kyoto and moving platforms (where pyro mine does a better job but yk it's on hvy)

[north perch]

if i place it in wt and then die does it stay if i swap off

[mighty flax]

the gas , yes , the untriggered mine , no

[north perch]

ok

[mighty flax]

same for pyro mine and gas/pyro grenade

[ashen hawk]

winch does have value. im just saying that it doesnt need a nerf at all, if any change it should get a buff to 14m or 15m max no more.

and sledge is def not meta.

ur arguments rlly just made me talk against all the nonsense you were blabbering about winch making it seem way more powerful than you think it is.

[slender bear]

Just found out, sniper has aim spread while scoped in and sliding/riding ziplines. I knew it had spread while in the air, but I didn't think sniper would be this inaccurate. Kinda defeats the point.

[slender bear]

Figured I would actually check the numbers on something because it's been bothering me for a bit, but here are the spec progression rewards by class and rarity:

Light:
2 uncommon
10 rare
0 epic
0 legendary

Medium
8 uncommon
10 rare
7 epic
1 legendary

Heavy:
4 uncommon
13 rare
4 epic
0 legendary

In case you couldn't tell, medium has the most uncommon rewards, the most epic rewards, the most legendary rewards, and is still tied for the second most rare rewards.
Light, on the other hand, has the least rewards across the board, aside from tying with medium for the least rare rewards and tying with heavy for the least legendary ones.
I am counting recon senses rewards and spec skins because those are still rewards that are in the game. The recon senses rewards might not be attainable anymore, but people who earned them still have them.

Just medium remaining the favorite child.

[slender bear]

I guess I left out mythic rarity now that that's a thing.
Who knows, maybe light can be the first class to get a mythic progression reward.

[radiant orbit]

Assuming mythic will remain at all as a price tier when basically everyone hates it lol. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the first and last at 1200.

Mythic might remain as the rarity of bonus page items etc as they move to make old BPs available but there’s no way the current predatory bullshit lasts.

[slender bear]

Tbf $12 for a skin is pretty fair compared to the $60 skins they do in most other games. Fortnite's good skins are upwards of $20 sometimes as well. I hope we don't continue to see prices increase like this, but if they start to make mythic skins actually different than legendary ones somehow, I don't think 1200 multibucks will be that unreasonable.

[gusty relic]

Does anyone have a build that actually makes light playable im tired of not being able to do anything

[slender bear]

You can run dash with XP or ARN for a well rounded one. That's what all the top level players run anyways.

Idk about gadgets though. Gateway is mandatory and thermal vision is helpful ig.

[gusty relic]

Why do people always have thermal I’ve tried it and it’s not useful at all

[slender bear]

It hard counters invis (assuming it doesn't bug out), and it helps a lot with target acquisition/tracking

[radiant orbit]

Yeah but it’s not 12 dollars, the closest you can buy is 1150 multibucks. It’s priced at 1200 so you HAVE to spend more money.

Additionally I’ve seen that sentiment all over the place that’s it’s not so bad in comparison. Girl I’m not gonna take a bad deal over a horrendous deal when I’m playing a video game voluntarily. It’s ludicrous to pay 20 dollars for a single weapon skin in a video game, that doesn’t make paying slightly less than that any less ludicrous. The 8 dollar single cosmetics are already pushing it, no way we should be letting the prices slide upwards like this.

If the devs need money then charge for the game. This model fucks everyone.

[gusty relic]

But that’s only when there actually is a invis light in the game

[slender bear]

I'm just saying, there's already an industry standard for skins, and embark charges way below it. They're also just skins, so you could absolutely choose not to buy them. They're absolutely trying to charge more for the same thing, which is sad because they didn't need to try and hide that here, but my point still stands that it costs less.
It might only be a lesser evil, but it's better than what you get anywhere else.
The multibuck bundle thing does kind of suck though. It's pretty inconvenient, even if it's only a $3 difference.

[rough carbon]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aqMU83v45r8?feature=share

[slender bear]

The target acquisition and tracking thing is helpful in any lobby regardless of who's there, and you also don't want to get caught by invis light players without it.

[gusty relic]

Ok sure that might help me deal with lights and mediums but I’m still helpless against heavys and heavys are the ones I’m most annoyed about

[slender bear]

There's basically no easy solution there for light. Play sneaky and get good at evasion. Nothing you can really do about heavies except get better at the game.

[radiant orbit]

I just think you’re wrong. Again just because there’s an un-just standard doesn’t mean everyone has to follow it, and yeah you’re right that most of embark’s releases have been (relatively) cheap but this release SPECIFICALLY being 50mb over the 10 dollar tier makes it a PREDATORY BUSINESS PRACTICE.

It sure looks like it’s 8 dollars under the already terrible industry standard but unless you’ve already spent money to get currency it’s not 8 dollars under the industry standard its AT THE INDUSTRY STANDARD. And again for a skin that is no higher in quality than the 8 dollar sticky situation skin for the r357.

This is a deeply concerning slide in a really bad direction. And we shouldn’t be brushing it off even for a second.

It’s a 20 dollar banana

[slender bear]

It's a fifteen dollar banana

[radiant orbit]

Far as I’m concerned anyone with that skin is a scab and I have no respect for them

[slender bear]

I feel like it's worth mentioning that when you spend $15, you also get an extra 450mb, which is halfway to another legendary skin.

[radiant orbit]

Well enjoy wasting money you coward

[slender bear]

Or they just like the funny banana skin. An extra four dollars isn't that hard to justify if they want the skin.

[gusty relic]

So the other 2 abilities are basically bad?

[slender bear]

I'm F2P
It really isn't that hard to go without skins tbh.
I don't really see what the issue is.

Although I'm sure there really are people who are terrified of going without the banana skin

[radiant orbit]

Hold on you’re defending this shit ass anti consumer move and you don’t even have stake in it?

Fuck off dawg I’m out. Bootlicker.

[slender bear]

You already said you weren't getting it either. You don't have a leg to stand on.

[cold wharf]

Just had a whole team wipe us out the last round of ranked tournament with grenade launchers. MFs man

[radiant orbit]

Yeah because I’m fundamentally anti-anti-consumer practices. I won’t fund a practice I think is unjust.

Anyways what does shoe polish taste like I’ve always wondered.

[slender bear]

Also, you already said you have no respect for people who got the skin, but you're also mad that I'm giving my opinion as someone who didn't get it. You're just looking for excuses to discredit me without giving a good reason.

No respect for people who get the skin, but you don't care about people who don't get it. It sounds like you just don't want to hear me out.

[radiant orbit]

lol good ol fascists running in circles

[slender bear]

It still means you don't have any more of a stake in this than I do.
Microtransactional live service games are inherently anti-consumer, that's why I'm F2P. If you don't want the skin, don't get it, and that's that.

[radiant orbit]

Adios babe think real hard about this one

[slender bear]

Oh no! The $15 banana dictators are here!
If you want to talk about fascism you can look at the American government. That word has literally nothing to do with the banana skin price. I think you're looking for capitalism and corporate greed.

[indigo nexus]

Oh no, discourse!

this is quite a funny piece of discourse

[slender bear]

How do you even get fascism from raised skin prices? There is literally no dictator in sight here. I normally hate when people disregard things and just call them buzzwords, but I don't think you know what fascism actually means.

Fascism is an inherently political ideology anyways. These $12 bananas aren't the reason we have a dictator for president, and I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

[radiant orbit]

I always thought your pfp was elmo from afar what is it?

[slender bear]

Slugcat from rainworld

[radiant orbit]

Ah I haven’t played that one

[slender bear]

It's probably the best indie game I've ever played. It never fails to make me pull all of my hair out lol

Sorry for being so rude. The mythic thing is definitely predatory, I just hope they can salvage this by making sure if they continue making mythic skins they are actually worth the extra money. They have so much goodwill with the community I don't understand why they thought they would have to turn to scams.

[plush mountain]

How good's the deadbolt?

[radiant orbit]

I’d be happy to take this political discussion into dms if you want. It devolved into insults a bit there and I apologize as well. Either way I think we’re well off topic for this company ran video game discord lol.

[radiant orbit]

The lockbolt? Quite good I think if you get creative with it, especially while the health of the emitter is still so high.

Unfortunately I’m dumb so I don’t use it very often 😔

[final gazelle]

s

[plush mountain]

Mhm, you think I should swap it in for the goo nade?
Hammer
Goo
Barrier ball
RPG

[vocal creek]

Depends on what playstyle you want. Offense, definitely. Defense, stick with goo and swap out RPG

[radiant orbit]

Hmm. I might actually swap out the barrier if you’re running really aggressively. The goo nade is still really good for blocking off paths from targets you’re chasing.

Otherwise yeah I think Penguin is right swap out rpg

[plush mountain]

Surely you need the rpg for hammer though? It's insane for finishing off slippery targets

[vocal creek]

Yes, but if you already have them chained to the floor then it doesn't really matter

[plush mountain]

Good point

[vocal creek]

Pair it with winch or charge & slam and carnage insues

[radiant orbit]

Ooh a lil’ charge and slam ambush hammer sounds really nice right now…

Off to ruin someone’s night!

[vocal creek]

GLHF

[noble anchor]

Also there's many ways to get free multi bucks so like.... Banana on my brother

[halcyon zenith]

Maybe just allow like 50% of the normal aim assist while in smoke
I've had quite a few matches where mnk just abuses smoke/thermal for easy kills
But busted to use against consoles imo

[exotic skiff]

AA is busted let's nerf it as well so, no ?

[halcyon zenith]

AA in cod is busted
In the finals not as strong as you assume

[north perch]

add lockbolt???

[exotic skiff]

It's very very strong

It make light dash stupid, just perma dash and will never miss a bullet

[halcyon zenith]

Play cod for a week on controller
Then tell me that the AA in finals is "strong"

[exotic skiff]

You need barricade not c4

[unkempt summit]

I dont think I've ever seen C4 used besides a few times

[exotic skiff]

It's not because in cod it's broken that I can't say in that in the finals it's strong like what

[north perch]

huh my mediums usually run goo. still worth it? someone told me to use c4 i just boguht it

[exotic skiff]

Nah if you dont play mesh you need barricade

[halcyon zenith]

It's not strong lol.
But go off ig

[north perch]

should i be playing mesh and then swap c4 for idk lockbolt

[exotic skiff]

Depend what you like, rn you Can play a lot of weapons and spec on heavy they are all pretty much the same

[north perch]

oh ok

[exotic skiff]

Mesh, winch and charge are all good

[north perch]

i dont like charge ngl

[exotic skiff]

In term of weapons you have : Sa 12, shak, lewis, deagle

But adapt your loadout to how you like to play but if you dont play mesh you definetly need barricade

Or goo

[north perch]

alright. what about my other gadgets i relaly like dome

[exotic skiff]

Dome is a must have, if you play winch go for dome, barricade/goo, rpg/lockbolt

Depend the weapons for rpg or lockbolt

[north perch]

when to go lockbolt vs rpg on shak

[exotic skiff]

Depend of how you play and what in the lobby

In ur play style if you see rpg doesn't do much try lockbolt

For me I play sa12 and rpg is a must have to be able to kill light

[north perch]

oh lights are fine for me

[exotic skiff]

I shoot the light a bit then rpg even if he is far

Just try both and see what u prefer

[north perch]

alright i will save up for lockbolt.

[exotic skiff]

Do quest or task to gain a lot of credit it will be fast

[north perch]

i want to get started on my light build soon too so i hopefully can finish heavy soon

[exotic skiff]

Heavy is the hardest class, and pretty polyvalent in term of build so try everything and see what u like

Most mechanical class by far

[north perch]

Oh I thought light was hardest

[exotic skiff]

Nah it's the easiest class

[north perch]

Seems to be a lot of movement tech on light and u need to know when to take fights

[exotic skiff]

No movement tech beside dash if you take it and you have a lot to go in and out

People assume when they start that it's the hardest but play more the game and you will see it's not. And it's not even close

[radiant orbit]

Light is the fastest, and therefore has a pretty high skill ceiling in terms of raw aiming and muscle memory. But with the extra health and generally lower damage that heavy has you can get really technical with your destruction and how you position yourself.

Your imagination is the limit on heavy 👀

[exotic skiff]

If you miss one thing on heavy ur dead, ur have no movement and just have more health

[north perch]

What class does the most damage? They all feel like they have very similar DMG so far

[exotic skiff]

Light does in term of raw ttk

[radiant orbit]

Light I think has the highest TTKs across the board yeah

[north perch]

And heavy is lowest?

[radiant orbit]

Again generally yeah

[exotic skiff]

No depend of the weapons but light have the best ttk weapons

[radiant orbit]

Actually if you hit headshots don’t the dulies have the highest ttk in the game?

[north perch]

Does pike beat sniper at long range. I'm facing that matchup when I play medium and idk if I should take it

[exotic skiff]

Nah doesn't change shit

[exotic skiff]

Pike is pretty fucking op

Medium weapons that are actually very good rn : Pike, cerberus (broken as Fuck) fcar FAMAS Ak

[north perch]

I'm playing cerb with pike fcar reserve

Although I play less cerb when I use healing beam specialization

[exotic skiff]

Cerb is stupidly broken and pike is stupid

[radiant orbit]

I was against the original nerf to the cerb, but unfortunately have to agree on the last nerf not really doing anything to reduce its effectiveness.

I’m still all for rebalancing it to lean into the fire damage.

[exotic skiff]

Fcar is a good choice, have the best ttk over the rest of the AR but is harder to handle

[radiant orbit]

I mean THEORETICALLY on medium the revolver is king, but you really can’t miss at close range.

[exotic skiff]

But we talk about what good and what's not but in the end if you know how to shoot and a little bit of gamesense you Can win 99% of ur ranked game at every elo even with "bad" weapons

[radiant orbit]

I’ve done wonders in WT with mesh flamethrower, which according to some folks around here is absolute garbage.

You never know 🤷‍♂️

[exotic skiff]

Flamethrower is indeed a very bad weapons imo

Just easy to use that why it's annoying

[north perch]

I would prefer goo on flamethrower

To make more defensive structures and be able to burn them down basically free fire

[exotic skiff]

Flamethrower work against people who doesnt think that much but I agree it's annoying

[radiant orbit]

See but I love it because of how it interacts with cover. It’s a perfect heavy weapon.

If my positioning is on point I win every engagement.

Could I be easily countered? Yeah probably but it doesn’t happen that often.

And it’s great fun in the meantime

[exotic skiff]

Doesn't happen because people doesn't understand shit

So yeah you must have a lot of fun ahah

[radiant orbit]

It’s frankly embarrassing how often holding W with mesh out works on rifle users.

Even more embarrassing how often it works on other mesh users

[north perch]

Isn't flame ttk pretty bad

[radiant orbit]

Not really considering I can do full damage around corners.

[exotic skiff]

In term of raw ttk it is yes

[radiant orbit]

It melts lights faster than they can react too in my experience

[north perch]

Oh it can bend? I haven't tried that gun before only played against it and it feels weak

[radiant orbit]

Yeah it sorta puts out a cone of damage, you can poke around corners and over ledges.

Or straight through heavy barricades

[north perch]

Might try that once I'm done perfecting my medium movement

[radiant orbit]

Anyways this is why it’s my favorite heavy weapon, you get to put 100% of your effort into your movement and map knowledge. So much fun.

I wanna find the actual ttk on it now I’m curious.

[exotic skiff]

Ask for the chart some people have it

[radiant orbit]

I found it, it blows lol.

[north perch]

Dagger have worst ttk probably

[radiant orbit]

nearly a second and a half to kill a light, nearly four seconds to kill a heavy.

Weird I’ve never noticed how slow it is 🤷‍♂️

[north perch]

Isnt that like half shak

Probably why I usually beat flame with fcar

[radiant orbit]

More like three times shak

Shak kills light in .5 and heavy in 1.5

[north perch]

Wow

Is that body shots or headshots

[radiant orbit]

Body, shak does crazy damage when you land your shots.

All headshots kills a heavy in 1 second flat JESUS

[north perch]

The headshot multiplier any good?

[radiant orbit]

I think it’s just the standard 1.5

Doesn’t say on the wiki unless I’m blind. Which I am actually.

[elder dock]

You mean the weapon with an instakill on everything but a max health heavy?

[north perch]

That's the one

[elder dock]

It probably has the fastest ttk, just need to get in real close

[hardy dust]

Not really

It still has 0.8s windup

[elder dock]

Fastest ttk melee?

[hardy dust]

Depends on the class

[delicate raft]

fav heavy gadgets?

[hardy dust]

Heavy and med is prob dagger, light probably sledge

Melee has terrible ttks across the board tho

[north perch]

Bad ttk and bad range perfect combo

[hardy dust]

Yep, and embark loves to keep nerfing that kind of weapon

Peak balancing

[sacred void]

They said they'd bump up the sword numbers once they reworked stun gun. I'm still waiting

[cinder jetty]

they said that?

[sacred void]

Yeah in the same patch notes where they nerfed the sword.

[glacial trellis]

sweet

[normal ice]

Embark: Let's make more weapons than just hitscan guns to help our game stand out.
Also Embark: *adds nothing but hitscan guns since Season 3, never buffs Flamethrower or MGL32, and randomly deletes Sword from the game*

[terse gorge]

Lockbolt

[plain harness]

it would make sense, rewarding turtling and strategy as opposed to the run in and kill mentality currently

[swift agate]

I don't know, I'd rather not reward turtling actually. I've noticed a trend in fps games that rewarding sitting in corners makes the game a worse experience for everybody. If we want to cope and call that "strategy", I guess it counts as a strategy, but not a good one for the health of the game

It only really works in hardcore tac shooters like tarkov because everyone is already going in expecting to have a bad time and getting exactly what they asked for

[plain harness]

i disagree, considering most classes have access to methods of getting rid of the gas, the gas mask would be a tool for control as opposed to turtling in the traditional sense

[swift agate]

I'm not opposed to the gas mask idea at all. all I'm opposed to is an implementation of that idea that would facilitate and reward corner camping.

[plush harbor]

Why do we need a gas mask though

[terse gorge]

just play pyro, wtf

[plain harness]

so you can sit in your own fart cloud

[plush harbor]

Yeah let’s just not have that in the game thanks

[plain harness]

i imagine it as an area denial tool

[plush harbor]

Doesn’t do anything but make gas counters more common and gas mines useless

[swift agate]

It wouldn't really be. Gas is the area denial tool, a gas mask would just be another way to use gas as a means to deny the area for just other people but not yourself. I'm not totally against it, but it honestly seems kind of pointless

Especially with so much fire in the game to burn all the gas up anyway

[plain harness]

i disagree, especially at a high level

[swift agate]

I mean all you have to do to have the same effect without a gas mask is to gas the cashout and sit in the corner on the other side of the room instead of the same side

In fact that's probably a better idea in general, mask or not

[terse gorge]

I dont think you have enough experience to verify that

@plain harness

[plain harness]

good point

[terse gorge]

ok, didnt expect that

[swift agate]

I'm starting to think most of the people who invoke high level play in their argument don't actually know what high level play looks like and are just kind of saying it to say it

[plain harness]

i imagine it preforming well if you keep a cashout strategically gassed

[plain harness]

i said it to sound cool

[plush harbor]

gas is great in high level cause nobody brings pyro aside from mines

so if you have time to destroy all pyro canisters and you have gas mine it’s great cashout denial

[plain harness]

i like this guy

[swift agate]

"Strategically gassed" as in always gassed? Sure, maybe. But you shouldn't be close enough to the cashout to be gassed when it is anyway. The enemy tends to see you sooner when you do that. Considering they see you when they look at the cashout when you're there and they don't see you when they look at the cashout when you're somewhere else

You generally want to keep line of sight on the cashout, not be on top of it

[terse gorge]

normally the full enemy squad doesnt make it to the cashout in high play

but then gas works well

[plain harness]

you dont have to be on the cashout, if you are running fart nades

[swift agate]

I mean you don't want to be on the cashout even when you don't have gas nades

[terse gorge]

you have no idea what people can do to steal a cash out without triggering mines

[plush harbor]

can we fix mine hitboxes tho

[terse gorge]

i saw a squad once use goo gun to sit over the cash out and steal it to not trigger mines

[swift agate]

What's broken about them?

Seem to work just fine when I step on them

[terse gorge]

i see the point, they are kinda weird

[wind folio]

just look at the ground bro

[terse gorge]

they sometimes trigger very weird, I have to say that

[wind folio]

right

[plain harness]

i play this game too yk?

[swift agate]

Every hitbox in the game is jank af to some degree

Gas and fire especially. Almost feels random whether running directly through it will decide to not trigger it's effects or looking in its general direction will cause you to spontaneously combust

[terse gorge]

Lies!! Deception!!! Every day!!! More Lies!!

[plush harbor]

i can stop myself before hitting them and have plenty of empty space but they still go off

[plush harbor]

goo blobs 😭

[swift agate]

They see you 👁👁

I personally think mines know when a light is in the room and move into your path while you're not looking like scp173

[plush harbor]

gg

nerf the oppressive mine meta 🕊️

[wind folio]

if only you could have 1 gas mine

[terse gorge]

No one uses mines in your silver lobbies

[swift agate]

I think if you looked up the definition of Jank in the dictionary, it would just be a picture of a goo blob

Probably spinning

[terse gorge]

no it would be the average heavy main standing in your way to the cashout

[plush harbor]

I think im a tad bit past silver

[swift agate]

Don't be mean he's trying his best

[plush harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1360472732218949643/1376367366715347004/togif.gif

[terse gorge]

u‘ll get there, no worries

[swift agate]

55 revives is crazy work

Dawg is Jesus christ

[swift agate]

Do yall got beef or something or do you guys just be saying shit just for the love of the game

[plush harbor]

https://www.davg25.com/app/the-finals-leaderboard-tracker/player-stats/?id=blank%236758

[terse gorge]

No worries we are just joking

[plush harbor]

nah we ain’t joking 🥶 🥶

all beef is real beef 💯

[terse gorge]

How do I know thats u?😑

well, well, well, now hes quiet

[plush harbor]

same steam account

[terse gorge]

and now? what do u expect?

[plush harbor]

sixteen diet cokes a new gpu infinite ekittens gifting me nitro and a new scale that can accommodate my 600lb fatass

[terse gorge]

only in your dreams

[indigo nexus]

Ooooh! S-lam, you demolished them!

[plush mountain]

Can you rev the minigun while invis-nade'd

[terse gorge]

dont think so

[terse gorge]

never tested cause I deny lights in my lobby

[plush mountain]

I'm pretty sure I saw one in a game last night, either that or I'm just blind and didn't see a heavy with a fully rev'd minigun who was on a team with an invis Light who I JUST saw pop out of invis and killed

[carmine hornet]

Hey guys I just want to know what is the best light loudout

[exotic skiff]

You have some options : dash/invis XP/ARN glitch thermal and tp

You Can swap thermal for something else like sonar if needed

[carmine hornet]

Ok thanks

[exotic skiff]

I forgot m11 is pretty good as well

[plush harbor]

M11 is bad

[carmine hornet]

Thank you

[exotic skiff]

Even m26 matter but that another type of gameplay

[exotic skiff]

Wdym it's prolly the best light weapons

[plush harbor]

No it isn’t

Bad range bad recoil and you might as well pick xp/arn for versatility or if you’re committed to cqc db/matter

[indigo nexus]

Stats wise the V9S is close to being an objective upgrade

[exotic skiff]

Recoil you just need to learn and practice

The ttk is insane, just need to play agressive and close range

One if the best light world is a otp of the weapons rofl

[plush harbor]

Nah lol I’d rather play matter

[exotic skiff]

M11 you got range compare to matter but matter is good yeah

[plush harbor]

uni has exceptionally good aim but he used to macro the fuck out of the m11’s recoil lol

[indigo nexus]

Matter definitely has the higher skill ceiling for its burst

[exotic skiff]

He got checked via moss during tournament I dont think he used any script

[plush harbor]

I don’t trust anything anymore except for my own intuition

moss not detecting something couldn’t mean less to me 🤷‍♀️

[exotic skiff]

Moss can detect any macro or script for recoil control

[indigo nexus]

You trust your intuition?

[plush harbor]

Sometimes

Anyways m11 stinky and sucks and isn’t worth using

[indigo nexus]

Not possible. But it could be close

[exotic skiff]

Nah m11 is crazy whenever you got a bit the recoil on ur hand u gonna beam so hard even mid range

[plush harbor]

at range the m11 does nothing 💀

absolutely horrid ttk

[indigo nexus]

Well, you can do something with it at range

just good luck beaming almost anyone who isn’t stationary

[plush harbor]

old clip

[exotic skiff]

Not from so long it's kinda the same rn

[indigo nexus]

Yeah - not sure if this was before it got nerfed further at range

[plush harbor]

invarcel has also since dropped the gun

[plush harbor]

This was before range nerf

[indigo nexus]

So it’ll be notably harder to do that now

[exotic skiff]

And he was far

At mid range you still beam as Fuck, m11 is just another type of gameplay compare to XP

[plush harbor]

Idk what this guy is smoking but I want some

[indigo nexus]

Just use the V9S if you want that

Its dropoff stops worsening much faster

and it has almost the same ttk up close

[exotic skiff]

I think Ur the one smoking

M11 is very good like XP and ARN they all have different gameplay

[indigo nexus]

I think it's okay, there's no blatant inferiority. It just seems like there isn't a lot of reason to go for it, to me.

but I doubt it matters one bit if you're not ruby grinding :p

[final yew]

hello

[light sierra]

why the fuck is the ks23 not a shotgun

[winter jay]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

[shadow onyx]

cl40 skins gm-94 and china lake

[royal pier]

Well, there are two little mechanics known as "stealing" and "reviving.

It was an unnecessary buff. They basically just thrust it into the meta in the same patch they balanced the XP-54.

Idk why they can't just leave well enough alone for a patch.

[umbral stone]

Is sniping on controller any good or is it way harder to do than with a mouse?

[dim onyx]

Pleaze nerf the xp into the ground, its crazy how good that smg is, virtually 0 drawbacks to using it, also buff melee weapons

[slender bear]

I think a bolt action heavy pistol would be pretty cool on light. Not sure if it would mess with the sniper we already have though.

It could have sniper's hipfire, but slower fire rate, higher damage, a scope, and only 3 bullets and a reload that functions like the model's but faster.

[plush harbor]

??

Can you elaborate please