💣┇weapons-gadgets

[white belfry]

That's literally all it is

[haughty ferry]

i didnt say its rng like you did I said its not very good at long or medium ranges lol because its a close range weapon like the minigun

[obsidian nexus]

cerb needs to be reverted

[indigo nexus]

I don’t think a full revert is good, but half way in between I’d be fine with

Gun was considered quite bad and everyone wanted it to be buffed prior to the buff

[placid slate]

It was quite bad because everyone was deeming pre nerf model as the standard for medium shotguns

[amber ermine]

day 3 of asking for a lava luster minigun arn and cereberus

[amber ermine]

either keep cerb the way it is or nerf it and buff model، pick one

medium always gotta have a solid shotgun

[vague monolith]

yeah I literally can't play without a free win button

[hardy dust]

Solid, sure. But not op like cerb rn or prenerf model

[jagged flume]

I want double frag and double proxy back.

[white belfry]

These samurai themed maps suck ass

[upper cloud]

me to

[unkempt moss]

It’s unhealthy for the light class to be subjected to double frag and proxy

[jagged flume]

I see this as an absolute win

[unkempt moss]

Embark balances around the 150HP mark, nothing we can do.

That’s why the KS will forever be sub-meta

[jagged flume]

I like how the KS23 has random shot deviation even when crouched and stationary

It really makes me feel like a gambler

[unkempt moss]

It drives me nuts as well. Projectile and slow TTK with terrible range, let’s go ahead and make it inaccurate

Sucks because it’s one of the most satisfying weapons to hit with. The sound and chunk one shot does.

[jagged flume]

and winch, the only thing making it semi-viable, got nerfed

[unkempt moss]

Worst part is Im a googun user. So I get punished for winch users having a combo 4 seasons ago.

[jagged flume]

googun having random spread is also infuriating

[unkempt moss]

Meanwhile I’m getting laserbeamed by an XP from 30m out.

[jagged flume]

I wish Heavy's machine guns actually did damage past 25m

I get the impression that Embark does not even try to take into account how a weapon should feel when balancing

For example, magazine capacity and fire rate are core parts of what makes a weapon feel a certain way, yet they make the M124 Minigun shoot at a measly 1200 RPM, give the SCAR/FCAR an oversized mag, and steal 30 rounds from the M60's belt.

[slow linden]

They need to fix the hit reg and up goo guns projectile speed tbh

[unkempt moss]

They don’t. The V9S is the perfect example. Firing a subsonic 9mm absolutely shredding people, meanwhile the M60 firing a 7.62 hitting for like half the damage.

[vivid comet]

any1 know when the stun gun is coming back

[unkempt moss]

Hopefully never. It’s a crutch for shitters

[jagged flume]

I get that damage numbers are going to be funky because of balancing reasons, but they just outright get the feel of some weapons completely wrong. Like the AKM being an accurate laser, or the MAC11 having a 40 round mag and being able to hit anything beyond 15m

[unkempt moss]

“Itz uh vidya gayme”

[serene glade]

embark balances on mass shootings in public spaces, not actually how much a weapon does. they are from sweden they dont know how weapons work

[jagged flume]

wdym, they have plenty of shootings and grenade attacks there as a result of cultural enrichment

[unkempt moss]

Oh boy

[jagged flume]

if they wanted heavy to only have short range automatic firepower, they could have stuck with various high capacity SMG designs (P90, PP19 Bizon, PP90M1, Suomi KP31, PPSH41, PPD40, etc.)

Or they could have done Machine guns in intermediate calibers instead

[hasty juniper]

they said mid season 6 but i’m not sure

[jagged flume]

make stungun a primary

[slow linden]

Real

[slow linden]

That'd actually be really funny but don't give it to light give it to medium

[slow linden]

Heavy needs a Thomson with a 100 round drum

I'm tryna rattle people

[serene glade]

i think the funniest thing they could do is add it back with no changes and say "we dont know how to rework a stun gun"

[slow linden]

It'd then go on for a season or two and then be removed

[jagged flume]

That would be significantly better than Embark butchering the M60 and Lewis gun

[slow linden]

Agreed

[unkempt moss]

I’d love for them to give one of the heavy machine guns a way to mount geometry and get insane accuracy. Give it insane kick and damage. I think one of the battlefields had a system like that.

[jagged flume]

BFV handled GPMG's that way

[patent fern]

what do yall think about a flamethrower skin that shoots OSPUZE instead of fire

[unkempt moss]

Just let me set the fat biddy on a googlob and let it sing

[slow linden]

Just give heavy an M2 browning 50 cal machine gun

[jagged flume]

they would make a browning do 15 damage and start damage falloff at 20 meters

[unkempt moss]

Or even like Tchanka from siege havibg that portable one. That would be fun for the M60.

[slow linden]

It should do 50 damage and have insane random pattern recoil unless mounted

[royal pier]

So there it's a bad comparison.

[slow linden]

Also hipfire should be horribly inaccurate

[unkempt moss]

Also, am I wrong in thinking the Deagles should be better up close than at distance? Like firing a big ass handgun one handed at range isn’t easy, but for some reason they’re treated like a DMR in this game.

[slow linden]

I agree they should have a little more fall off and do more damage

[hardy dust]

Nope, they should be better up close and worse at range

[unkempt moss]

I want to kick in a door and start blasting with the Deagles, not plink at rifle users on a roof.

[hardy dust]

Personally I'd give it harsher falloff distance but better hipfire

[unkempt moss]

I’d take that in a heartbeat.

[hardy dust]

It would be better balance wise and probably more fun too

[unkempt moss]

Also change the goofy ass run animation

[jagged flume]

must cross arms when sprinting because i am upset

[unkempt moss]

Even if it’s realistic or something they’ve seen people do, it doesn’t translate well in game.

[slow linden]

If they give heavy a DMR it should be an m1garand

[unkempt moss]

I’ve never seen it, but maybe it’s a Swedish technique

Drywall and Slim, how do you fix the MGL

Should be the funnest weapon in the game, it’s dogshit.

[serene glade]

you fix it by ignoring it for 5 seasons and then announcing a stun gun rework

[hardy dust]

Real

Do nothing and buff medium 🔥

[unkempt moss]

Oh so they’re on it

[serene glade]

Of course. Has embark ever let you down!?

[slow linden]

It needs a rework

Needs a sticky alt fire,I actually like to have the option of bounces for utility purposes

[slow linden]

Always

[clever sleet]

Ik it is in the game still dude, calling it "balanced" as u probably never used it in a real 1v1 before, don't be one of those ppl that call out weapons and gadgets just cause they don't like playing against them.
I dont like non of the shotguns in this game, i dont like RPGs I dont like the minigun. they all annoying to play against, ( in my opinion ) but not for that I'm gonna cry for them to be removed like a little bitch. This game has so much to offer for so many different styles of play, so find the one that will take down the one you dont like. For this game using your brain is key.
Gotta be more specific when complaining, otherwise you are no different from a spoiled lil kid.

BRING BACK THE SWORD!!!

[gritty swallow]

do people even use the KS-23? its seems very underpowerd to me

[obsidian nexus]

Sword was out of line and insanely broken,

[kindred wedge]

Yes, I just ran it to rank five over a few days straight. I really want to like it but it lets me down in the worst ways.

[clever sleet]

i disagre with you brother. I dedicated 90% of my hours to the sword class, and trust me... it aint broken.

[serene glade]

The sword is fine, still does decent damage and you still have the ability to combo the movement of dash to just hit and run with it. Soften up team and just be a nuisance. And yeah you can still win 1v1s

[obsidian nexus]

skill issue if u cant make it work now

[clever sleet]

sure you can get some nasty kills. but just like the dagger or sledge hammer or any other gun in the game really.

[clever sleet]

who says i cant? the main reason of why i started using its because the movement. not the damage

[serene glade]

You still have the movement?

[clever sleet]

each round i keep doing over 15 kills, but that is not the point.

[serene glade]

Do sword users want to 1v1 a mini gun user or something? I'm baffled by the retardation around this weapon

[clever sleet]

the main complain here is that a weapon that was never "broken" and it was already hard to master was nerfed, just beacuse noobs where crying too much

[serene glade]

It's still not broken

[obsidian nexus]

xD a lil bit out of touch with reality

[serene glade]

So just keep using it?

[clever sleet]

sword nerfed or buffed still smokes a mini gun, with the right movement. idk what u talking about.

[serene glade]

Then what the fuck are you complaining about. Jesus Christ

[clever sleet]

about you kids who cried for weapons or gadgets to be removed all the damn time.

[serene glade]

So you have no argument...got it

[obsidian nexus]

ah yes, let me superdash for 18 meters and slide my mouse across the room to do rapid 360 and do 140 on an entire team while in smoke

[clever sleet]

lol yeah u tryed that.

[obsidian nexus]

if ur saying to other people, "just adapt lol"

then do it urself when u have to and dont come in here crying. bit hypocritical dont u think?

[clever sleet]

who is crying?

[serene glade]

The entire light playerbase who uses sword because the nerf makes it unplayable apparently

[gritty swallow]

that's realy interesting , but like you I realy want to like it cause I like the idea a lot but for me it just feels off to use, hope they keep on the little buffs with it like they have been doing

[obsidian nexus]

they are crying because they cant abuse a clearly broken weapon anymore

[clever sleet]

"apparently" so u never used it?

[serene glade]

I've literally used it the last few days because I wanted to how "unplayable it was" and it's fine. I dropped 18 kills with it in ranked and started laughing

[clever sleet]

you saw the notes about the sword, right?

[serene glade]

They don't want you one shotting a light. I surprisingly can read yeah

[serene glade]

"but light kills me just as fast with other weapons" yeah because most of lights weapons are overtuned

[clever sleet]

how they used "Lights complained about getting one tapped by a sword" (not the same words but the same message).
when other weapons can one tapped you as light too.

[serene glade]

The hard read is crazy

[obsidian nexus]

18m superdash with 15 meter active hitbox + spinning around having actually a AOE hitbox. that was the problem. and thats not even the multihit problem

skill expression

[unkempt moss]

If you’re getting 15 kills a round what exactly are you saying is the problem? We win rounds with less than 15 kills collectively as a team.

[clever sleet]

the sword is not the real problem dude. its how it went away.

(got nerfed)

[serene glade]

Went away?.... brother. You selected it and are getting 15 kills a round

[unkempt moss]

But it didn’t go away, right? Because you’re still slaying a lobby

[obsidian nexus]

everyone here trying to figure out what this guy is actually complaining about xD

[unkempt moss]

Is it that you have to try a little now?

[clever sleet]

what part of the "sword being nerfed is not the problem" u dont get... its the ppl complaining too mutch about everything on this game.

[unkempt moss]

so your idea is to add to that?

[serene glade]

Honestly based

[clever sleet]

my idea is to point it out man, you dont see how its so easy to get something nerfed or removed in this game?

[unkempt moss]

The goal posts are currently being moved. One moment.

[serene glade]

I've seen. The KS is dogshit because the lights got one shot by it one time

[unkempt moss]

If I could get something changed there would be a lot more fun going on with the weapons.

[clever sleet]

for you maybe, but what you dont see is that other ppl might love the game as it is.

[slim crest]

Sword was a problem that they fixed - idk why the light player base is still malding.

It's still plenty viable, people just kinda suck at using it.

[serene glade]

We are trying to figure it out. uFall doesn't care to elaborate his anger

[clever sleet]

anger?

[unkempt moss]

You’re the one that said I could change it if I cried as hard as you.

So if I do that flame thrower will provide upward thrust and let me use it as a jet pack?

[serene glade]

Frustrations? What word is suitable for you?

[slim crest]

In general, The Finals is the most balanced it's ever been before. I've seen people using the widest variety of weapons more than ever before. That says something.

[slim brook]

realtalk

you need skill for your wapons

[clever sleet]

dude its a damn game idc as much as u think i do, the things is i really liked this game before it started to drastically change every update.

[serene glade]

So you don't care? But you care?

[unkempt moss]

You care enough to join a discord and cry.

[slim crest]

Light players when they can't default to some overpowered meta pick for the entire season anymore

[clever sleet]

I dont lol. im just here cause im waiting on someone lol.

[serene glade]

Does she go to a different school?

[slim brook]

bro i play 4 day i dont no what is meta xD

[unkempt moss]

Oh. Do they think you’re really cool for complaining in a forum while you wait as well?

[clever sleet]

I thought this chat was fro ppl that wants to talk about the gadgets and weapons in this game

[slim crest]

I'm not talking about you lol

[serene glade]

We were. And then you provided no counterargument to why sword should be buffed

[slim brook]

oh sorry

[unkempt moss]

Im going to start barking

[serene glade]

And then starting malding...sorry..not caring

[clever sleet]

u still stuck with the sword thing, lol

[serene glade]

Lmfaoooo

[unkempt moss]

So are you lol

[clever sleet]

never got the point

[serene glade]

Your point sucks

[royal pier]

So it's a bad comparison, then.

I've been doing well with Minigun recently, but you'll still have plenty of moments where the ttk varies significantly, and there's no way to avoid it. It has a general recoil tendency, but shots will still be generally random.

Been using Winch once already spooled up, which does help.

[clever sleet]

but u where all in with the conversation?

[slim crest]

uFall, dawg. You're not him.

[vital forge]

I'm so tired of goo grenades putting one blob in a doorway or only one layer and getting shredded because of it🥴

[slim brook]

Bro why is the Rank Points sooo random dafug

in one Round is 300 Points when you the 3 place and in the next round is on the 4 place 6 points dafug

[serene glade]

"people complaining got it nerfed" I understand. But it's still strong so why is it a problem

[clever sleet]

ok?

[unkempt moss]

“Bro Im not mad, im waiting for my hot egirl(male) to show up”

[royal pier]

But competitively minded players thinking it's the greatest thing Heavy has is weird. Normally they hate anything inconsistent/unpredictable.

[slim crest]

Jus throw it on the ground

[vital forge]

@slim crest lol ok

[slim crest]

[royal pier]

They could fix some of this by having Goo Nades ignore minor elevation changes in the environment, possibly. So using it on steps would have it treat it more like a slope instead of individual steps.

Same with small stones and debris, as well. Have it just clip a little so that it doesn't make the weird diagonal, single line Goo trails.

[slow linden]

It needs crits

[bleak copper]

just got cb01 repeater and its rly good

i use sr-84 (the sniper) a lot so this gun just fits me

[unkempt moss]

CB is probably the best feeling medium gun. Two tapping a light is nice.

[gritty swallow]

That could help 2x crits or 1.5x? I think 1.5 could be realy good maybe little to good but idk i don't play the gun that much

[unkempt moss]

The problem is 1.5 would push it to killing lights in one hit, and thats a strict no no for embark-sama

People always say 1.2 but I haven’t done the math on why

For the inconsistency of the spread, lack of range, and being projectile I think one shotting a light would be fine.

[slow linden]

I love when good aim just isn't rewarded at all,especially on weapons that shoot BIG SLOW PROJECTILES

[serene glade]

Big slow projectiles on these servers as well. Not allowed to hurt lights too badly tho

[unkempt moss]

MGL should work like Bomb King’s primary and alt fire.

[slow linden]

Paladins is great,I have never played bomb King though,I mained yag and raum

[unkempt moss]

Bomb King was the best. He threw bomb minions that stuck to people, and then manually detonated them. Doing bonus damage for each additional stick.

[tribal jacinth]

Famas is pretty good weapons.

[unkempt moss]

Some would say really good

[shell sentinel]

lol i like boys

[unkempt moss]

You’re in the right place

[kindred wedge]

I honestly wish it was just more accurate. It's already a projectile, there's nothing I hate more than getting gravity cubed and having my accuracy tank for no good reason. It also sucks trying to hit ziplines at mid distance thanks to it's wack spread. I'm not even sure why it has it since it can't headshot.

[unkempt moss]

It bullied lights 4 seasons ago so embark is afraid to make it decent.

[kindred wedge]

Should be okay now that the CB exists.

[unkempt moss]

Medium needs that because they have no FQC

[serene glade]

Mediums love QC

[slender bear]

Do you mean CQC?

[unkempt moss]

No. FQC

Do you think they are lacking in CQC? They really only lack in MQC, and im lacking a QPC right now.

[blazing flume]

uhh...

[unkempt moss]

That’s the name of the skin

[blazing flume]

doubt, also no description

[unkempt moss]

Cut embark some slack. They were busy with this weeks balance patch.

[echo bolt]

Boxing gloves as a melee combo weapon for heavy when

[worldly maple]

Is the Cerberus good at all?

I just got it, I’m trying to make it work but I just cannot

[unkempt moss]

It’s considered a top 2 weapon right now.

Some would even call it busted.

[worldly maple]

Ok but imagine, a super speed ability for light

Where it like triples your speed but at the cost of being hard to control

[little kayak]

Medium needs a semi auto pistol. Somethin in between the suppressed pistol for light and the medium’s magnum.
Imagine all the cosmetics too- start with a barebones m1911 and have options for things like Kimbers, GI’s, and silly competition pistol models.

[little kayak]

Barrel stuff everything except lights.
When you’re going after heavies use that burn damage to your advantage!

[little kayak]

(Something something John Wick something something Combat Master)

[livid stirrup]

As a light I can say I hate the cb shot gun

[meager snow]

as a medium i can say i love the cb shot gub

[agile drift]

Currently standing behind the famas. Tempted to try out the Fcar at some point

[hardy dust]

Best weapon in the game rn

[lapis salmon]

WHO do i need to force feed ospuze to get 3 CHARGES back on the DATA RESHAPER

[hardy dust]

Honestly idk about crits but it should do at least 110 dmg, and be able to qm between shots again

[worldly maple]

FCAR is great, it’s a nice in-between of the FAMAS and the AKM

Provided you can control that initial recoil, it’s a little tough to get used to at first

[hardy dust]

Fcar has basically no recoil now so it's very easy to pick up

[worldly maple]

It’s also got really good sights if that matters at all to you

[agile drift]

the sights dont matter too much cause im a sucker for the looking glass

[crystal garnet]

Remove Smoke grenade from light. If they want to spam thermal vision they need to have a team coordination with M or Heavy.

[slender bear]

I just found out sword kills light faster now with two primaries and a qm. The alt's nerf removed all of it's break points and now using it actively hurts your efficiency unless you are trying to team wipe with multi hit. Maybe sword just needs a new alt.

[slender bear]

I think heavy's charge n' slam needs a nerf. It does 100 damage on frame 1 with no end lag, and sword's alt needs to be charged up so it can do 105. They're both multi hit, so I don't see why getting elbowed should do as much damage as getting stabbed in the chest.

[opal crow]

This sounds cool but people would complain about going against it to no end. Like the idea though, could get some extended slides and jumps from it to cross gaps

[restive plover]

Charge definitely needs a windup. If it weren't an instant "fuck you" button it could probably go back to 130 + 50.

[slender bear]

Honestly. Try hitting a heavy with a melee weapon ever when their shoulder alone does more damage than whatever you wasted your weapon slot on.

[slow linden]

That's actually sick

[slow linden]

Didn't it used to have crits and way less fall off,also it actually shot straight?

[sacred scroll]

Were you referring to ks23?

It never had crits

[final geyser]

I know a lot of people don't like melee weapons (ok understandable) but so many of them are in such a bad place right now. Not because the melee weapons are bad but just because of how dominant many of the other classes short ranged weapons are. Cerberus, Double Barrel, and Minigun are all guns that just out ttk every melee weapon easily in addition to being able to deal damage from range. I would love to see something done about this in the mid season patch as they state of melee weapons will undoubtedly get worse with the reintroduction of stun gun! Please embark i love you!

[unkempt moss]

It had a combo where lights got winched, melee’d, and KS shot and it killed. Light were furious and e-mailed harada constantly about it.

Standard lights dont want to get better so they cry in the cord

That’s why it’ll never go above 104 damage.

[slow linden]

I hate low elo pub stomping lights

They ruin the game,they make the sandbox feel so sterile and boring

There's nothing going on in their heads

[sacred scroll]

Problem with casual cashout is that it's always 3 team moshpit, so having shorter regen cooldown is VERY strong, while a defensive playstyle is a lot more luck base since 2 teams will overpower you

[slow linden]

Being able to completely swap builds in casual gamemodes have made them less casual and more of a brainless counter picking competition

[sacred scroll]

I think that's fine, since if you counter pick, others can do it too, so it's a last man standing situation, besides, not everything have "hard" counters

[slow linden]

It's just boring and encourages people to be less skillful,people don't have to get good with a particular loadout,instead they change depending on the last thing that killed them only to lose anyway,I'm not saying it's effective,I'm saying those opponents aren't even worth fighting

It's like fighting bots

[sacred scroll]

I think using counter play against specific loadouts are good , since it keeps the field changing, like if a team has a defensive playstyle, like goo, barricade, mines, etc. A medium player might use the data reshaper or pyro nades to flush out the defenders, or a light might use sonar to decide where to use their firedrill

Then if they will, they'll have to think of a way to defend using those "attack" focused loadout

[slow linden]

Specific load outs sure that's what reserve is for,the problem is that the reserve is irrelevant and people just pull from the whole arsenal

One thing I like is being able to swap specs but that's about it

[lavish heron]

#buff reshaper

[red dune]

Repeater is better for close range than long range right?

[unkempt moss]

I’d say mid to long

[lavish heron]

New Gadget Idea:

Remote Stealer (medium or light)

You can now steal cashouts remotely (to a limited distance) and the time to steal depends on the distance you are stealing from if you are closer to the cashout the cashout will be stolen much quicker than normal. However when using the item there will be a visible line (like the lockbolt) that everyone can see so you cant stealth steal it

[opal crow]

Feel like that’d lead to a lot of cheese, like teams of 3 people separating and each taking turns doing that, or full bunker defenses on whoever’s stealing from a distance

[lavish heron]

you would need line of sight

and the range would be like a room and a half

main use of the gadget would be to either stand on the cashout and steal in like 3.5 seconds or if theres fire or poison on it then steal it with a lil bit of cooldown

[opal crow]

I wouldn’t hate that in that case tbh

[lavish heron]

cuz i just hate it when you wipe a team but that stupid light jumps on the pyro mine and there are 10 seconds left

so you waste a gadget slot to do what you can already do but faster or better (like defib)

[opal crow]

I mean I guess we already have smoke to clear fire though

Like if that’s gonna be the niche use case wouldn’t we just stick to smoke since you can use it for other things as well

[lavish heron]

gas

[opal crow]

Fire clears gas, again multi use

[lavish heron]

it would be balanced because of the faster steal if you are near normal steal range

to make it more usefull outside of that case

[opal crow]

If it gave you a faster steal then it’d be too strong again, and there would be no reason not to have it even if there isn’t gas or fire

[lavish heron]

just like a defib

[opal crow]

Yea but I’m not sure why you’d want something just as good and annoying as defib to be added alongside it lol

[lavish heron]

i mean i dont want the timer to be like too good just a lil faster so its useful outside of hazards and hazards are cool anyway

basically a clutch tool for desprate measures

[opal crow]

Even if it’s slightly better than just stealing outright it’d be too strong imo. Idk I don’t hate the idea but definitely wanna workshop it a bit, like maybe instead of a remote gadget for stealing cashouts it could be a remote gadget for like, taking control of enemy turrets or mines or something

[hardy dust]

Steal times should be consistent. Having a super fast steal would just reward jumping in last second.

[lavish heron]

now this is even cooler

although a lil op considering if it works like the reshaper but the turrets become your own for some time

and also makes the reshaper even more useless then it already is

[opal crow]

Ye idk it does also seem pretty busted, could balance by giving it a single charge that only affects one item and it taking a bit to actually turn that item from the enemies to your team, maybe make it so if you take any damage it cancels the item or something

Again already seeing the issue of why bother picking anything else over it if you can just steal peoples mines and shit though so maybe cancel that

[hardy dust]

Reshaper would be more versatile and efficient than it, so I think it would probably be a worse version of reshaper

[alpine sky]

I have an idea for the reshaper buff.
Make reshaped carrieables stronger than basic ones. For example give them more AOE, and make'em visually 50% bigger. I think an ability to launch a ridiculously large flameable barrel into an enemy sounds fun, but not to op.

[hardy dust]

Honestly it just needs 1 charge back

And if turret gets buffed (no longer the weakest spec in the game) reshaper gets an indirect buff aswell

[shell sonnet]

Didnt reshaper get nerfed because of how opressive it is to turret specifically?

What if placeable specializations were instead returned to the users inventory (so no recharge needes)

Since they have a steeper cost to run than gadgets

[jagged pumice]

I'm wondering if there is actually an advantage on using iron sight over the other unlockable sights on the repeater or does it all come down to preferences?

[lapis iron]

AK-47: THE APOCALYPTIC BEAST THAT’S GOATED WITH THE SAUCE

Ayo, blud, the AK-47 is the whopper of guns, fam. We’re talking about the GigaChad of weapons, rizzing up empires and leaving chaos in its wake. This thing’s built for pure turbulence. Throw it in a backroom or upside down on a plane, and it still fires like it’s morbin’ through time. It’s not just a weapon; it’s a whole way of life.

Created by Mikhail Kalashnikov in 1947? Nah, it’s made by the gods to unleash total chaos. The 7.62mm round? That’s not a bullet, it’s a missile, a glitch that makes everything go bussin’. You’re out here looking like Andrew Tate, rizzing up the entire planet. The final boss? Nah, it’s the AK-47, GOATED with the sauce. It’s like grinding in Fortnite while rizzing the whole squad in GTA 6.

Hold the AK and you’re dropped into the matrix, just vibing through glitches like a walking black hole. No sussy imposter can touch you. It’s you and the AK, rizzing to legendary status like Kai Cenat. Each shot is like leveling up in a game with no rules.

The AK-47’s been everywhere. It’s in movies, games, like the Keanu Reeves of guns. No strategy needed, just hold the AK and let it rizz through history. From the Cold War to today, it’s revolutionizing every battle, one final boss fight at a time.

This ain’t a weapon, it’s an experience. You don’t just use the AK, you become it. You’re not human anymore, you’re the glitch, the biggest bird, rizzing up victories like a shadow wizard. So next time you hold the AK, know you're about to change history with the ultimate weapon.

[indigo nexus]

👁️

[faint steppe]

Definitely. Consistency is insanely important for every competitive game. That's why I will always be against any type of overheal/HP shield/damage buff etc.

In a perfect world not even defib would exist but at least it's somewhat balanced right now

[slender drum]

If someone woud make yt vid of all this i woud wach this wile eaiting.

[warped raven]

Hammer skin idea but it's an Axe

https://youtube.com/shorts/K6mi8MFPoog?si=aoLCr7NB0mfyvxWn

thay would make sense for the second hit XD

[warped raven]

or another Idea

Gadget duplicateur 🤷‍♂️

[lavish heron]

what

[warped raven]

Just shared a similar Gadget Idea (Gedget duplicateur)
It just came into my mind after seeing data reshaper and Remote stealer talk

[junior plaza]

That makes sense but what if you put yourself in a bunch of barricades

[lavish heron]

need line of sight

[junior plaza]

Yah but you could have an iron defense on the other side of the map and just steal

[lavish heron]

limited distance 💀

[junior plaza]

True
Sorry didn’t understand

[icy sparrow]

@dapper marten what u up to?

[heavy tundra]

HMM

[mellow cloud]

everyone yapping about nerfing cerb but if we gonna do that nerf db too bc why am i getting one shot as a medium?

[restive plover]

*Two shot

And no, db on light is fine. Cerberus is not because medium specifically is not supposed to have primaries that make it strong in close quarters.

[mellow cloud]

2 shot for full health but i got nailed for 200 while healing and thats lowkey insane

[restive plover]

You still had to be shot twice there, max damage for a single shot is 195.

That is still very high, but it has to be to make it worth it for the class.

[mellow cloud]

i dont know then man, i was just over 200 and a light dashed in and deleted me

[serene glade]

the fcar and akm and other guns still work in "cqc" btw

[restive plover]

The rifles are useable in close quarters. That doesn't mean they're good at it, especially compared to the options on other classes. Shak vs. Fcar within 15 meters shak wins every time.

[restive plover]

They could have thrown in a quick melee.

[serene glade]

purely because the heavy has more HP, the ttks are pretty similar and the hipfire on the ARs are exceptional. so id say medium with a cerberus nerf is still decently strong in cqc. except they get infinite utility along with that kit.

[mellow cloud]

wasnt close enough and im pretty sure it shows it the right side list of where you take damage

[lusty raven]

Gentlemen... lets enjoy our final days of Sledge while we can

[jagged pumice]

Nightmare blunt rotation returns

[round sonnet]

This might be the most confused I’ve ever seen someone about weapon balancing

[round sonnet]

Homie you are more lost than zoro for this comm wtf are you smoking

[sacred cypress]

Will there finals have arc raiders cosmetics(potentially cross game rewards)

[unkempt moss]

Every medium weapon is strong. I don’t understand why it matters in close quarters, that just means they suffer at range. It’s a trade off that everyone has to make outside of the XP.

When I load in with the Deagles Im making a choice to be worse up close than the SA, but better at range. The Medium ARs are more than “usable” up close.

[raw cave]

riot shield needs a secondary attack rework for it to secure kills on lights or medium, because often they just run away like nothing ever happend. The secondary attack as it is, is just useless, it just moves this "carriable wall" in front of you. Add something obvious like shield bash from overwatch to prevent an attack, maybe slow down affected player and deal 5 damage like winch claw or lockbolt. The riot shield needs a rework

[unkempt moss]

I’d have to assume he’s a light player advocating for his class as they do. The cerb is really strong right now, but as Googs said it doesn’t even have the fastest TTK on the class.

[warped prism]

also heavy has rpg, charge, lock bolt and other gadgets that make it strictly better in 1v1s against mediums with assault rifles

[restive plover]

Also because the shak kills faster across the board. If that's still not enough we can go for the minigun or sa1216.

There's also light's primo cqb weapons that went unmentioned: m11, v9s, m26 matter and of course the double barrel. The ars don't really hold a candle to any of these.

@unkempt moss I'm a medium player, mained it since season one. It matters because close range is the intended weakness of medium. This is why triple medium ran the game with model in season 4 and late season 3: extreme close range strength + gadgets designed to be weak at close range = no weakness at all.

As an aside, the deagles are also problematic and need a nerf/rework because heavy is not supposed to have range potential.

[restive plover]

Well this was about weapons. But note how 2/3 of those gadgets are all about cqb: either only working in that range or keeping you within a set distance of the heavy.

[unkempt moss]

Intended by who?

Every time I ask where embark said this no one has anything

I just want to read the interview or blog post where this was said so I can understand

[serene glade]

i think medium is potentially problematic because the dedicated support class is dishing out unintended damage at all ranges

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, we have mercy out here shitting on everything

[tough prairie]

Ze healing is not as rewarding as the hurting.

[round sonnet]

I think you are completely ignoring the skill lvl of said people while stating things like this

[unkempt moss]

Tama unless you’re posting a link you’re doing way too much typing.

[serene glade]

ignoring skill level of what?

hitting shots on a hitscan rifle? its not that challenging

[unkempt moss]

This is the case from silver to diamond. I haven’t played in bronze, but I have played against rubies and is still true for them

[round sonnet]

There’s a difference between relying on hit scan to hit shots at distance and a skilled player hitting shots at range that they’ve taken time to learn recoil patterns to hit those shots

[lusty raven]

Id say the Medium is by far the strongest class... Lights excel at staying alive out of reach of other classes and either chip at the enemies from afar or deal huge burst damage to a single target... Heavy carries breaching tools and utility stuff (and also MASSIVELY reduces team damage output)... while the Medium is the class that does most of the work by continuosly dealing damage and getting people back to fight...

I believe this is how the game should work (just my opinion tho... im not Embark) and I dont see ANY reason why every class shouldnt have long, mid AND close range weapon at their disposal... The ONLY thing that I believe completely destroys this system is Dematerializer on Medium... it is one of the strongest breaching tools and because of it Mediums are now completely self sufficient...

[round sonnet]

Nah it applies to everyone especially when there are people complaining about long range dmg but when they shoot the weapon they add recoil to the gun that was never there before 😂

[serene glade]

[round sonnet]

Whether you can accept the fact or not is on you but it’s a truth

[serene glade]

i dont even know what you are saying

[unkempt moss]

I don’t understand what you’re saying

[round sonnet]

Hit scan only carries so far

[lusty raven]

pretty much this

[round sonnet]

Hit scan will help hit shots yes, but as the target gets farther away the hit scan will not help as much due to recoil patterns and the hit scan hit box getting smaller as the get farther away

[lusty raven]

bro

do you know what "Hit scan" is?

[round sonnet]

Do I have to make a Microsoft paint drawing smh

[serene glade]

im gonna have a stroke talking to you about this anymore, so just imagine me nodding and moving on

[lusty raven]

tbf I would LOVE to see it

[lusty raven]

hold up... this is gonna be some cool ass shit

[unkempt moss]

I think he’s saying that recoil makes you miss shots at range.

So bad players will miss shots at range.

[round sonnet]

I gotchu gimme a lil bit at work rn

[lusty raven]

well... duh... but I wanna see how the fact that most weapons use "Hit scan" instead of actual projectiles fit into this narative

[round sonnet]

In a simplified version sort of but that’s not the whole thing

[unkempt moss]

You’re doing better than I am then

My question is what is this refuting?

Im so lost in the sauce at this point

[serene glade]

my whole point was saying nerfing the cerberus doesnt make medium magically bad at close range. idk how we got to strokeposting

[lusty raven]

So am I... but I wanna see that Paint art

[oblique crypt]

Thank god I moved to playing dagger and riot shield

[shadow onyx]

2024 ahh brainrot

[unkempt moss]

So he’s saying recoil makes bad players miss, and good players can hit because they know recoil patterns?

[lusty raven]

i mean... you are the one who will get fucked by the stun gun as well

[lusty raven]

Ye I think so...

[oblique crypt]

I know 🥲

[lusty raven]

no gif for you then 😦

cant embedd stuff here

[unkempt moss]

Im still waiting on the link from Nama Tama.

Sorry, NamaTama-sama

[oblique crypt]

Hopefully the stun gun is actually pretty interesting, it will probably still be bad for melee but I have high hopes.

[unkempt moss]

I got dragged in to this hitscan thing and I lost consciousness

[lusty raven]

im fairly certain that the day stungun drops... half of the melee players will vanish

[unkempt moss]

Please, just provide a link so I can read what Embark has to say about it. The amount of typing is scaring me that it’s just a larp the green names do.

[lusty raven]

its already somewhat hard to close distance to gun wielding mediums and lights... imagine trying that while there is a HARD counter against melee gameplay

[serene glade]

you will take your LowEffortEffortPost and like it

[unkempt moss]

Please don’t LEEP at me, NamaTama-sama

[oblique crypt]

I'm sure the stun gun won't be THAT bad.

[restive plover]

There is no such link as far as I know, but it's just a game design thing. Medium is the designated support, it should be vulnerable to pushes and dives. This can be observed in how heal beam/defib crumble under pressure without something to prop them up, like a teammate or overpowered shotgun. The game has always had problems with medium weapons giving them strength in this area.

[lusty raven]

i mean... it WAS that bad

[restive plover]

I don't know what leep means.

[oblique crypt]

That's why they reworked it though

[unkempt moss]

Embark has never said this is their design philosophy?

[lusty raven]

i have no idea what they created but it will either be completely useless or it will be a hard counter against melee... there are no other options

[oblique crypt]

I actually never experienced the stun gun, I stopped playing before it was added and only recently started playing again.

[lusty raven]

it was in the game from beta

[unkempt moss]

It’s good for farming the stop the steal contracts.

[bleak copper]

guys should i get duel akimbos or cerberus

[oblique crypt]

really? I don't remember it

[unkempt moss]

Do you want fun or win?

[bleak copper]

both

[lusty raven]

e definitely... I have played beta, then nothing and we started again this season...

[unkempt moss]

Cerb

[bleak copper]

ok thx

[lusty raven]

I mean... cerberus is quite fun imho

[bleak copper]

a friend of mine said cerberus is trash

[unkempt moss]

It is, but it’s not as cool as the Akimbo

[round sonnet]

I just realized something

[bleak copper]

he said the magazines were tiny

[lusty raven]

eh... I struggle to use those... you gotta "ADS" with them and I really dont like that

[unkempt moss]

Fast reload, and you only need three shots

[unkempt moss]

Use them how you use the Pike or LH1 and you’re good.

[lusty raven]

it depends... it shreds Lights... yes... but other than that it is rather average easy to hit with gun, that is all about running around your target and blasting

[lusty raven]

i dunno... Pike seems glorious... I hate the fact that instead of actual sights you aim with the crosshair at range

[bleak copper]

ohhh ok thx a bunch

is zipline better than jump pad?

[lusty raven]

expect to unload A LOT of shells into every single target... unless you get into kissing distance

[lusty raven]

depends.. I mostly play GL so I use jump pad... but zipline has defo its uses....

[unkempt moss]

Overall probably not. But I prefer zip

[bleak copper]

ok

i have enough coins to get cerberus and zipline

thx for the help

[lusty raven]

@round sonnet yo... where the pictoor

[unkempt moss]

He was EpihanyPosting a moment ago

[lusty raven]

actually.... now i realise... he probably cant post pictures yet

[unkempt moss]

What rank do you need to be?

[lusty raven]

cuz he has no role

[lusty raven]

i think orange?

[unkempt moss]

Test

Did it work on your end?

[lusty raven]

yes

[unkempt moss]

Should be couple a handsome cats

[serene glade]

one looks like it needs to put a jacket on

[unkempt moss]

I think that’s why Dave is taking his off. To give to Garfield

[serene glade]

thank you dave. it will shield him from the cqc options

[round sonnet]

I am at work rn himie, will send but also realized something while swapping from one disc to another

[unkempt moss]

What did you realize?

[round sonnet]

Same kinda argument still applies, but was arguing with the wrong people

Still gonna send the paint drawing tho

[unkempt moss]

My belief was Medium was supposed to be the class everyone started on, and the other two were more specialized.

[unkempt moss]

What do you mean wrong people…

[round sonnet]

You know exactly what I mean

[unkempt moss]

Racism…

[round sonnet]

😦

[unkempt moss]

It’s because I’m on blue team and you guys all pick on us.

[serene glade]

i personally dont want to see the image if that helps

[restive plover]

I mean it is described in game as specializing in healing, support, and midrange combat.

[round sonnet]

No im on the blue team

[lusty raven]

🧢

[round sonnet]

I doesn’t thanks tho

The image is purely for zapper now

[lusty raven]

you are going to see it... and you are going to appreciate its artistic and educational value 👊

[round sonnet]

I’d replace the r with a u and artistic if I were you 😂

[unkempt moss]

It does specialize in that. The cerb is just somewhat strong right now. I don’t really think it’s that bad, but I’m also not some weak ass light or medium players discord canceling my way in to buffs

[lusty raven]

i dunno about you... but "Specialising in..." to me doesnt sound "Incapable of..."

[unkempt moss]

The model was a midrange gun and you guys got any about that on medium. You know how I imagine green names talking? Remember the king of the gungan city on Naboo. How he speaks with cheeks?

Jowl Posting

[round sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/meesa-like-this-boss-nass-gif-14821976

NO IT DIDNT WORK

[lusty raven]

no embedd for you

[unkempt moss]

Meesa tink medium should only heallll

[lusty raven]

gotta have red name to do that 😉

[round sonnet]

That’s it

[unkempt moss]

I gotcha bud

[round sonnet]

Ty sir

[unkempt moss]

Mf think because they spent a lot of time in the hive mind that their opinion flys in wepsNgadg

These are the streets, cuh. We’re a bunch of alley cats in here shit posting and hating each other.

[restive plover]

Cerberus is top one on medium. And model has range for a shotgun, but still isn't a midrange weapon really. It shredded way too hard up close and is in a good position now.

@lusty raven it's not. But it should come at a very high cost and not be tied to the primary weapon. This is actually the purpose of turret and dematerialized: giving up support for improved close combat potential. Turret sucks at it but that's its own problem.

[lusty raven]

i seriously dont think that the Cerberus is some kind of be all end all weapon that ascends the Medium into some kind of untouchable being

[restive plover]

It's not as bad as it could be for a number of reasons. It lacks the range and sustain of old model, and medium's support tools were heavily nerfed to try and justify medium have the weapons that it does. But the underlying synergy is so strong that it is still a problem.

[lusty raven]

sure... it is a great weapon if you play aggresive support, blasting your way towards your fallen teammates... but i dont see a problem just because it is on par with other close range weapons

[restive plover]

And also the major undercutting of medium's class identity that makes it so fucking boring now.

[serene glade]

medium i think is just built to be boring. the only time it was fun to me was running demat jump pad.

had actual play making ability

[lusty raven]

Medium has great guns, Exceptional specs and below average gadgets... I dont see why it is such a problem picking dedicated close range weapon instead of basic AR

[lusty raven]

try GL... is super fun

sadly there are no more funny little cheeses you could use while playing it... but hey it got buffed and feels extra solid even without them

[round sonnet]

GL, demat, gas mines, explo mines

[lusty raven]

I would literally die of boredom if I had to play a single round with AKM 💀

[round sonnet]

Drop mines into cash out room and shoot gl round at mines under enemy feet

[lusty raven]

doesnt work now... it deals maybe 50 damage? used to be quite strong and you could easily decimate multiple people with some pocket mine, but apparently it was too strong and had to be nerfed 😦

the only mine you can use like this is gas mine...

[round sonnet]

Gonna cry

[lusty raven]

which is ALSO the only viable way to use gas mine... as it will NEVER explode on its own

[unkempt moss]

It used to be a mid range weapon and you greeners jowl posted in to boring

[lusty raven]

back in beta the mines were super deadly... you could throw it above the doorframe and it would explode anyone whod run through... no chance to see it, you had to listen to the beeps

[unkempt moss]

You’re doing the undercutting. Healbeaming isnt an identity.

[lusty raven]

I personally think that it is a good thing, they scaled them down a bit, but ye... for the GL gamplay I would love a different gadget... maybe a powder can or something that can be blown up to deal extra damage

[placid slate]

Below average gadgets my ass, jump pad, zip line, defib. The only medium unique gadget that isn't best in slot is data reshaper

[unkempt moss]

Greeners just cry until the game has become so sterile that the only fun thing left is the heavy class

[lusty raven]

I mean... compared to Heavy, who has stuff like dome...

[serene glade]

those are all better than dome

[placid slate]

Compared to medium, has has defib

[lusty raven]

i dunno... defib is nice and all... but I simply dont see defib as a necessity on Medium... sure I use it, but only because there is nothing else I can take

[restive plover]

Support is an identity that heal beam is a part of. That medium has received no net gain of gadgets since SEASON ONE is a massive problem I agree. Cerberus being nerfed to make way for a billion new support tools would be a godsend.

[lusty raven]

like what for example?

[unkempt moss]

What do you want added

[round sonnet]

Nah the explosive mine on propane tank was the greatest in the world

[lusty raven]

agreed that was delicious

[unkempt moss]

Any unique interactions in the game are removed.

[lusty raven]

especially if you carried it and random enemy Light bumped into you in the doorframe

whole block went down in instant 😄

[unkempt moss]

GooFO and a ton of Goo tech. Kickflip

[round sonnet]

Oh it was great, I can’t remember if it was intentional or a a bug but mines used to stick to people…… you get where this is going

[restive plover]

Something that reduces cool downs on teammates within range would be nice. Something to increase speed maybe? I don't really know, it's not my job to be embark's ideas guy. Just something new. More than literally two support gadgets on the support class please.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah we need more defib spam. You really are a medium player

[round sonnet]

I’m starting to like this guy

[lusty raven]

I like the vanishing bomb... that to me is a peak support tool... but for some reason it landed on Light instead of Medium

[restive plover]

Defibs without model/Cerberus were completely fine. During season two after the fcar nerf triple medium was a throw pick, because people would just push into defib chains and shred you.

[unkempt moss]

Two support gadgets?? Glitch, zip, jump, reshape? Thats four.

Heal, demat.

[lusty raven]

is Reshape a support tool? 🤔

[restive plover]

No lol.

[placid slate]

Defib too

[restive plover]

Neither is dematerializer.

[unkempt moss]

Stops you from getting blown up by mines, turrets, crushes barricades.

[serene glade]

giving off angles through the walls and opening entry points for your teammates isnt support?

[tawny spoke]

No

[serene glade]

ah ok ty

[unkempt moss]

No. He’s a dumb ass greener. He only shoot and defib like a good boy

[restive plover]

Destroying enemy gadgets is an offensive use. Would shooting these things with your gun count as support?

[lusty raven]

I personally dont buy the whole "Medium is a support class" narative, mainly because Medium is objectively the strongest combat class... Light has great guns but is very squishy to stay in combat and Heavy has subpar equipment and is EXTREMELY prone to outplays, because of how sluggish it is...

Support is just one of many Medium playstyles...

[unkempt moss]

No, because they set off the gas and pyro mines.

[placid slate]

You are supporting your team so yea

[unkempt moss]

Stopping a dome shield or grenade from coming in.

[placid slate]

Also deleting barricades

[unkempt moss]

Now I know why you guys are like this. You have a one dimensional view of how things work.

Uh support mean life go up

APS

[round sonnet]

Me use heal gun, me good boy right big Steve

[unkempt moss]

Good boy, lemilly. Remember to defib me when I run straight in to oncoming fire, but not before I get my complaint post off in the discord about minigun

[round sonnet]

I will member Steven I will member

[lusty raven]

oh boi the minigun... it now feels much better after the accuracy boost

[serene glade]

whats the argument for keeping Iframes on defib btw?

[lusty raven]

still noone plays it bcs of how FUKEN HARD it is to be viable... but for sum fun quickplays its top tier fun

[lusty raven]

oh yes definitely this!!! I LOATHE that shit

[unkempt moss]

Nah, run it in ranked. It rips people up.

[lusty raven]

i dunno... people we play against in ranked already have braincells...

[unkempt moss]

Well, you see without it people required thought. We don’t want our players to think just buy skin and w key

[lusty raven]

iframes on defib is the worst thing about defib atm

[tawny spoke]

really?

[unkempt moss]

Just let me googun trophies and the shitters can keep their crutch

[lusty raven]

people already have plenty time to get ready for rez thanks to the pov you get while rezing and MASSIVE bar that tells you exactly when are you going to respawn

why do I have to take 200+ damage before I can fight back against someone who is getting rezd 2m away from me

[serene glade]

i just always found the iframes more problematic than people having access to their gadgets immediately

[tawny spoke]

How do you take damage ??

[unkempt moss]

Bullets if I had to manage a guess

[lusty raven]

when someone defibs you, you have like a second to deal damage before your invincibility ends

[tawny spoke]

When someone gets defibbed why would you stand infront of them

[lusty raven]

and since you get POV while still dead and you exactly when you spawn, you just aim towards the enemy and hold the left mouse button to get that dirty damage off

[lusty raven]

well you cant... because iframes... normally you would pummel that lil shit back to hell as soon as they rez

[unkempt moss]

You gotta watch his buddy who has a free hand during the rez as well.

[tawny spoke]

Yeah but ive never really had a PROBLEM with it like you said, i always kill tnem

[unkempt moss]

You’re really good at this game though

[tawny spoke]

its also very easy to just move away from the area and come back w Demat

[unkempt moss]

Oh you’re a medium player. That tracks

[tawny spoke]

or other movements etc

[unkempt moss]

I was wondering why you were defending it

[lusty raven]

the intended use of defib is to free you hands to fight back when your teammate is getting revived... except people abuse this to jump into the fray... rez someone and then split, because iframes allow you to dash or empty your mag into closest person before they can do anything

[unkempt moss]

You almost got me, little fella.

[tawny spoke]

well they dont move from the area, if you’re a good tracker you’ll defib below you, then defib above the rez

not that hard ive done it before

[serene glade]

so is there an argument for the iframes being a positive thing or just "deal with it" is what im told

[unkempt moss]

What

[tawny spoke]

Well it’s definitely a bummer for us for sure, but i dont think its a problem

Many other things they can focus on like bug fixes where i cant shoot or deploy gadgets

[unkempt moss]

They could focus on both, it being different people.

[serene glade]

im not saying thats the only problem with this game. i just never understood the design philosophy around it

[tawny spoke]

i meant demat not defib

[unkempt moss]

Right, as a medium player your mind focuses on defib. I get it.

[unkempt moss]

You know embark isnt just a single person working out of their basement, I know it can seem like it.

[tawny spoke]

There’s so many things that happen in the game that are completely ridiculous designs that i just forger once i get offline

[serene glade]

i mean yeah

[tawny spoke]

but this game has alot of areas just like that defib problem

[unkempt moss]

They have some singular jackass working on balance. And then im sure there’s a few people on bugs, then a small army working on skins.

[lusty raven]

today we managed first session in like 3 weeks... where not a single one of us crashed 🥳 🎉

[tawny spoke]

so i kinda just dismissed it as a big problem, because as we can see they have had this since like s3 and they arent planning on changing😢😒

[lusty raven]

we usually rack 3-5 crashes per evening... this time absolutely nothing 💪

[tawny spoke]

This is. Absolutely Amazing🥳

[amber ermine]

day 4 of asking for a lava luster minigun arn and cerb

[lusty raven]

dunno if it was random occurence or if they actually fixed something... dunno time will tell

[tawny spoke]

Have you ever gotten like a connection error or crash & they just delete your rs

[lusty raven]

no its always CTD

and thankfully you can reconnect to tournament... the quick cash is worse tho...

[tawny spoke]

Yeah but sometimes when i reconnect we lose by the time im back, And usually if you play good enough but still lose you’ll gain rs, but thats not possible if i dc before the game

[lusty raven]

sad

[tawny spoke]

very

[round sonnet]

Wait people have crashing problems?

First I’ve heard of it

[gritty swallow]

Would like accuracy for sure. And maybe a little more before the dmg dropoff Starts, not using richt click it's crazy inacurate for taking that long to shoot (for me at least)

[clever sleet]

Bring back the sword!!!

[wide onyx]

Sadly people are too butt hurt about it for thst to happen

[odd lagoon]

Best medium weapon for all ranges?

[serene glade]

famas or fcar

[unkempt moss]

is there a bigger self report than begging for sword buffs and then pretending you still get 17 gorillion kills

[wide onyx]

What're you on about

[serene glade]

theres never a reason to revert the sword, just people complaining about it

[unkempt moss]

You know what I’m on about, mate

[wide onyx]

Naw

[wide onyx]

There is though. It's completely unviable in competitive play unless you're a God with it. You can still pub stomp newbies with it because they don't know how to counter it. But in higher skill brackets people obviously know how to counter it. And the decreased DPS makes it much more difficult to catch genuinely good players.

[serene glade]

its dps is fine, you just cant stand still or abuse 3 dashes to kill a mini gun user?

[wide onyx]

How is using your specialization abusing? Heavy and mediums aren't even the problem for sword in its current state. The decreased damage of the lunge means you really need to hit every QM with lunge but it's possible

The problem is fighting lights. A sword light generally has to use 1-2 dashes to hit one, and the opposing light likely has either dash or grapple, and a ranged weapon.

Now opposing lights can out dash you since you have to be the aggressor, and just kill you. It's very difficult to line up a second lunge, or regular attack against a light thst now knows you're already there

[unkempt moss]

So those people took the time to be really good and can now play the weapon in ranked?

[wide onyx]

They could always use the weapon in ranked? Don't understand your "can now play".

[unkempt moss]

You said it’s completely unviable UNLESS YOURE A GOD WITH IT

So it sounds like it’s time to hit grind

[wide onyx]

It's unviable yeah. You really do have to be a God with it.

Great insight. Perhaps come back with more nuanced takes.

[unkempt moss]

Well thats what I’m told any time heavy stuff is nerfed.

[wide onyx]

Sorry to hear that about your personal experiences

I play as a sledge heavy basically nonstop since s3.

[unkempt moss]

Aren’t you posting about your personal experiences of being dogshit with the sword?

[wide onyx]

Can't say I ever said I was dog shit. What are you so angry for?

[unkempt moss]

You said you aren’t a god.

[wide onyx]

I guess there's only being God or dog water with weapons in this game. Thanks for letting me know.

[unkempt moss]

If you play sledge nonstop why are you sword posting?

Just for a friend or what?

[wide onyx]

Because I don't like to see fun and unique weapons being gutted

[unkempt moss]

It’s definitely not gutted. My sword friend is fine with it. Tell me about your personal experiences now.

My sword friend said it’s basically the same and just shitters are mad.

[wide onyx]

That's crazy

[unkempt moss]

He must be a god

[wide onyx]

Sure man. If you think so.

[unkempt moss]

You think so to since he uses it in ranked

[wide onyx]

I don't know. You can still use it in ranked and not be a god.

[unkempt moss]

Oh. So what was your complaint then?

[wide onyx]

Haha OK man. You obviously don't care

[unkempt moss]

I must have misunderstood. My bad.

[round sonnet]

you guys wanna sword fight 👀

[unkempt moss]

It’s so bad now we’d both lose.

[round sonnet]

wanna have a healing beam fight then?

[unkempt moss]

That could be fun

[lunar hare]

New weapon idea, the frying pan shield bonker 🍳 .!

[pine pier]

It shoots eggs when you right click

And if it hits fire it gets fried

[glossy shard]

does the ak or scar have higher dps?

[north shard]

Unemployment

[rain marlin]

I have a friend who think that mediums melee weapons are some of the weakest in the game

Particularly the riot shield

Yet I think all the melee weapons are balanced in their own way (with the only possible exception being the sword)

Thoughts?

[unkempt moss]

Sword is fine, the spear and dual blades probably need the most help.

Dual Blades suffers because of the class it’s on. Should be a light weapon tbh.

[final geyser]

Shoot give all melee weapons a purpose atp (not you sledge). Spear, Dual Blades, Riot Shield, Dagger, and Sword now are generally weapons you are NOT happy to see your teammates using! Please make these fit better, whether that means nerfing the guns that just outperform melee weapons in cqb (cerb, minigun, double barrel) or buffing the melee weapons something needs to happen. ESPECIALLY before stun gun comes back and neuters all melee users

[hardy dust]

They are, light has movement (although rn both their melees are in a horrible state), heavy has winch and health, but medium doesn't have anything

Medium has no gap closing so you can literally just avoid them to counter them

[royal pier]

They broke spear spin again.

[rain marlin]

this in interesting

My bud says the riot shield needs the most help

More lunge and hitbox fixes is what he wants

[eager wasp]

hitbox fixes i can agree with

hitbox fixes as in, bullets won't be blocked even when theres no shield in front of em

[slender bear]

I think they should give lh1 the scout optic so it can also play more like a dmr

[low reef]

I feel the middle should get a SMG

[placid slate]

Fuck what did they do

[royal pier]

It'll randomly no reg.

[slender bear]

I'm pretty biased, but I really feel like light is limited a lot by the amount of creativity you are allowed with it's specs and gadgets. Cloak is cool and unique, but other than that all light has is movement from it's specs, and medium does that just as well with jump pad and zip line. A huge part of where this game's creativity comes from is making use of the physics, but the only item light has that can manipulate the environment well is the gravity vortex, which has close to no use cases otherwise. The only realistic way light can mess with things is through thermal bore and breach charges (worse versions of demat) or goo grenades, which can be used by everyone. I know light is supposed to be the mobility class and that's it, but it would be cool to have that mobility without trading all of the room for creativity that medium gets despite already having jump pads and zipline.

[eager wasp]

hasn't that been a thing since it came out

[unkempt moss]

I think it’s a thing with all melee tbh. I’ve watched sledge just right click on top of someone and miss so many times it’s doesn’t even phase me anymore. Just a consequence of choosing melee in the finals.

[royal pier]

It was mostly fixed, but this most recnent patch has caused this to happen more often.

[serene glade]

I think we need to start whining like the sword users constantly, let's try it with mgl or something, or we could do a random ass gadget. You MUST buff explosive mines to one shot lights, you only won't do it because sword users complained about stepping on them and then they got boo-boos 🤬

Best part is you don't really need to provide any reasoning. You can just say something stupid and then we hive mind around it

[lusty raven]

the MGL is the hardest shit ive ever played in finals and I am a GL main... Ive seen some people defending it here, but I simply cant seem to grasp how this weapon could ever be competitive in its current state...

Maybe they could introduce different grenade options for GLs? Something like the optics on rifles maybe?

[plucky spade]

Medium movement is macro, light movement is micro and biased around 1v1s. Light in fact just ignores the physics part of the game for the most part due to the movement

[eager wasp]

there have been talks about an mgl rework, don't know when but its in the air

[lusty raven]

I would LOVE a functional grenade launcher on Heavy

[plucky spade]

No need for every weapon to be meta ngl. Some things can just be gimmicks

[lusty raven]

cuz rn imma super struggling with playing Heavy bcs of its weapons

[eager wasp]

whys that, shak is pretty good

[sacred scroll]

It works great if the opponent isn't on a higher elevation

[lusty raven]

I agree, but still I love the CL-40 gameplay and would love another grenade launcher I could play

[lusty raven]

that is the greatest disadvantage of GLs... firing into higher elevation

[sacred scroll]

The MGL require you to aim at walls or sealings instead of the floor (most time)

[lusty raven]

yes I ve tried it... but its ultra hard to use effectively... it works at some places and only if the enemy team stays hunkered down and immobile

[sacred scroll]

It having downside and trades for aoe damage is very worth it, it could 2 shot lights if aimed right as well

[plucky spade]

Mgl with explode on hit dynamics would be op

[lusty raven]

not really... it deals solid damage and you CAN outshoot enemies, but you are playing a super slow class, that cannot disengage from the fight effectively to reload or heal... Heavy works best with gimmicks like sledge

[plucky spade]

This has worked like that since forever

[lusty raven]

CL can and will 2 shot lights as well

rn id say that CL is the most effective medium weapon against lights

[eager wasp]

well even so being a slow class, you just have to position and have map knowledge, my loadout rn is CNS (i just prefer the movement speed) shak, rpg, pyro mines, and dome shield, out in the open im kinda struggling but i like the high damage i can do

thats the tradoff i take, but i can wipe entire teams by myself if i sweat a bit ya know

[sacred scroll]

But mgl is on heavy, and heavy doesn't have another aoe weapon

[plucky spade]

R P G

[lusty raven]

I admit that its not exactly bad... but that works only against dumb teams that just engage you head on... one firegrenade, one Light flank and your dps doesnt really matter

[sacred scroll]

It's a one use item

[lusty raven]

ye... sadly

[eager wasp]

shak is especailly good against light if you can aim well, and most people don't run pyro nades that often

[lusty raven]

RPG is a tool to breach at range (suspended structures for example)... defo not a weapon (even though you technically can fire it at someone to deal some measly damage)

[sacred scroll]

My main wish is for mgl to break those balloon with barrels in them that hang around the arena

[plucky spade]

Also give cl-40 and mgl the ability to one shot opponents in the air

[sacred scroll]

No

[eager wasp]

but i understand, sometimes a weapon just isn't for someone, i feel the same about some of the meta weapons like, well some of the past meta weapons like lh1 and pike

[plucky spade]

Yes

[sacred scroll]

No one likes oneshots

[plucky spade]

Airshots are so hard in this game, you should be rewarded for that

[lusty raven]

nah... its not needed... the weakness of GLs is to be weak against attacks from above and that I think is more than fair

[plucky spade]

Ok hit an airshot and tell me how much you'll be doing that

Hell, hit an airshot on the target smarties in the practice range

[sacred scroll]

Hitting it is the reward itself

[plucky spade]

Not enough

[sacred scroll]

Just because it's hard to achieve doesn't mean it should give the player a one-sided advantage

[native temple]

mini gun buff pls

[plucky spade]

( it's a joke obv )

[eager wasp]

it doesn't need another buff

[native temple]

it got a buff ?

[sacred scroll]

Less spread

[eager wasp]

yeah recently, it was... uhh what was it i can't remember off the top my head that yes tighter spread

by like 10% was it?

[native temple]

lol. okay didnt know that

[slender bear]

What's up with the spec progression bias? All of the light specs have 3 rare progression rewards and one uncommon. Demat has one rare, two epics, and one legendary. Light is the only class that doesn't get a single epic reward from specs, and even when it comes to gadgets, data reshaper gets two epic rewards and thermal vision only has one. They did light dirty with these.

The ONLY specs that don't have any epic rewards are evasive dash, grappling hook, cloaking device, and winch claw.

Two of light's specs are actually the only ones in the game that have rewards worse than rare. Nothing else has any uncommon rewards, but two of light's three specs do.

[near scroll]

tf2 loose cannon when

[eager wasp]

everyone brings up tf2 but i never know wtf they are talking about bro 🥀

[broken plover]

https://tenor.com/view/虹彩六號-閃盾-搖擺-gif-4394670630118883082

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/brokengjh-solarnostalgia-stan-twitter-darwin-gumball-disgusted-gif-23625060

[shell sonnet]

Its impossible to make everything ranked viable

I doubt there have ever been more than 2 weapons being ranked viable at the same time for any given class, if even that

Miniscule differences in power/ease of use get amplified tenfold in ranked, you cannot possibly get multiple weapons that close
Maybe some very different use cases like shotgun vs long range
But thats pretty much it

Mgl has a steep learning curve, but its really fun if you can get down with it

[near scroll]

my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

[eager wasp]

never played it, never seen it, only hear about it

[shell sonnet]

Its much easier (and imo more important) to balance for casual

[near scroll]

u're missing out, game's funny af

[shell sonnet]

(Hope you dont mind me throwing myself on that)

Id just much rather have a 2nd heavy grenade launcher that can then be balanced and messed with, than trying to make mgl something its not, potentially turn it busted or useless, while invalidating the 1 thing that makes it interesting

[near scroll]

gib heby tf2 loose cannon

[shell sonnet]

Would probably be fun

Problem is, it wouldnt be a "standart launcher", so people that got turned off by mgls weirdness also wouldnt like this, leaving a potential niche unfullfilled

And it might have balancing problems since it likely would need to 1-shot lights

[near scroll]

lights have enough mobility to be hard targets, and they could potentially dash/grapple out after being hit by impact to avoid getting double donked idk

i have no clue how to balance it i just think it's worth considering cuz it's one of the coolest video game launcher design imo

[shell sonnet]

Questionable if it even fits in here to begin with

Cant 1:1 throw it in

[deep mason]

@indigo nexus I mean the spread increase the farther the bullets goes,it's that simple

[indigo nexus]

so, curved bullet paths? never seen anything like that in an fps, but it could work. How would that be visually represented via dispersion reticules I wonder...

[deep mason]

I see ur point that doesn't happen unless it's a projectile either it's accurate or it's not,maybe just reduce damage a lot after a certain distance

[indigo nexus]

if any ranged gun-like weapon actually had perfect hipfire I think I'd use it all the time, would be so nice

tracking dart is 10x easier to aim than any gun is because of it

[charred beacon]

Define "Ranked Viable", are we talking anybody can pick it up and see success or are we talking it wins games in good hands because with enough time and effort almost every gun is ranked viable with few exceptions

[charred beacon]

Escape From Tarkov makes you zero your own scope for vertical bullet path but makes the horizontal path 0

[near scroll]

obviously yeah, but i think a launcher with cookable nades would fit the finals, no need for extra damage on "double donk"

just make it a launcher that can more accurately spam, but with more setup time due to having to cook the nades, and one that also rewards pin point accuracy with impact dmg + explosion

[wispy badge]

Whats better atm for heavy Lewis gun or M60?

[slender drum]

Akimbo

[eager wasp]

M60

[indigo nexus]

M60 for most use cases

[narrow bane]

i disagree
mp5, arn, matter, lh1, sh1900 are competitive in ranked
mp5 stands out above the rest
if the mp5 really needs a nerf, sure they can mess with damage per bullet, but that may not be necessary; they can also mess with the RPM

the 93r can also be brought into the ranked meta with some adjustments: lower damage per bullet from 26 to 24, and reduce the burst delay from 0,275 to 0,21
which would give the following TTK times
Body:
Light: 0,66s (current 0,52s)
Medium: 1,05s (current 1,19s)
Heavy: 1,44s (current 1,64s)

Head:
Light: 0,39 (current 0,40s)
Medium: 0,66s (current 0,79s)
Heavy: 0,99s (current 0,91s)

body light TTK may increase (would 3 burst to the body instead of 2 bursting, but with these changes if you hit a single headshot in 2 bursts you can kill a light in 0,43s, valuing skill expression)

other TTK values seem reasonable enough with these changes in my opinion.

[hybrid lynx]

Is there a website for comparing weapon stats like that?

[narrow bane]

yes

[narrow bane]

https://apesquad.org/pages/gun-data

[hybrid lynx]

Ty!

[indigo nexus]

Like the screenshot I posted? No, it’s just a script of mine (can provide source if you like, I’m not making a distributable until it’s all finished)

looks like the link above doesn’t account for velocity, inaccuracy, mixed hit locations, quick melees etc

I don’t think it’s doing the damage falloff right either, it’s doing some smooth interpolation for the ttk where you should be able to see discrete steps when the stk changes.

Don’t know how they got that wrong, must have forgotten a max() somewhere

[hybrid lynx]

I’d like the source, if possible

[indigo nexus]

DM'd

[cunning jasper]

using dagger in it's current state gives me pain :c

just upgrade the tickrate on the dawg ass servers lol

[spark igloo]

Most nerfed weapon in the game btw

[serene glade]

I didn't know that it was the most nerfed lmao. I feel like it's the biggest weapon that relies on the stability of the servers, for both the user and the rest of the lobby. And instead of addressing the issue that is the servers embark is fine with just throwing bandaids on things and praying it works out. They want to hold Esports tournaments btw

[spark igloo]

Yeah they aren't fans of fixing issues

[unkempt moss]

So true king

[spark igloo]

Almost the 1 year anniversary of 10m glitch trap

And it's been reported as known by the devs for almost 6

[cunning jasper]

6 seasons of being shot around corners and facestabs

[placid slate]

Yea that's pretty normal, goo fucks up it's hit registration

Was expecting some shit like spin cancel not working or something

[peak totem]

So Guys how we Feeling about a New Melee for Medium Brass Knuckles left click fast attacks right click Haymaker doesmax health % damage to anything amount is different for each Classes and rewards you with a bone crunching sound when you kill soemone with a Crit

[still magnet]

#⚡┇the-finals-chat message @olive viper perhaps take a look

not a fan of violent gifs really

@restive plover

[narrow bane]

https://x.com/TheFinalsLatest/status/1917240267750490462?t=0BPdROXYyqC5pvVg5R6rHg

THE FINALS - Latest News (@TheFinalsLatest) on X

First details on the reworked Stun Gun! 👀 #THEFINALS

• Now called 'The Nullifier'
• Stunned players are "phased out of existence"
• They can move, but cannot deal damage, use equipment, or take damage
• No longer a free kill
• Still interrupts cashout steals and objectives

X · Apr 29, 2025, 3:31 PM

[runic marten]

Deadass thought this was a joke at first 🥀

[eager wasp]

What it’s reallll?????

[unkempt moss]

So you get to watch and do almost nothing?

[eager wasp]

Cashout steals are going to be so annoying

Triple light team, last seconds of cashout, everyone nullified free steal

[serene glade]

glitch grenade and nullifier keeps the confirming a cashout pretty simple like before, but it doesnt just instantly shit on melee from the sound of it which is nice

[eager wasp]

Yeah it might actually be a unintentional buff to something like the dagger

Can turn a 1v2 into a 1v1

[serene glade]

theres still gonna be floods of people begging for sword buffs still probably

depends on how long youre thrown into the "phased" state but that sounds like it could be sick for light melee to be able create 1v1s like that

[unkempt moss]

Didnt even think of this. But a forced duel is pretty nice

[eager wasp]

I think they said about 4 seconds

roughly

[serene glade]

yeah sounds good, seems like it could be a healthy change for stun

[young pewter]

They should have just made the stun gun into a people data reshaper
Momentarily make them a flower pot

[lusty raven]

love this... Melee still lives gentlemen 💪

[winter jay]

Phase spec for light when?!? 🙏

[torn bronze]

spear is a very cool weapon, just wish the spin attack didn’t take a million years to hit someone

[placid slate]

this is funny as shit

[narrow bane]

literal phase shift from titanfall but you put it unwillingly on the enemy

amazing

[final geyser]

Hell, I would be happy if the spin even registered hitting someone half the time

[torn bronze]

real, and i thought they fixed that

[unkempt moss]

It feels like spin doesn’t hit multiple people

[winter jay]

i think its more like the an orbit rather than a full aoe so you can just miss people because the spear doesnt hit them

[final geyser]

Im not even complaining about the orbit, but even still I have soooo many clips of the spearhead just fazing through someone dealing no damags

[deep karma]

I want to use this on allies / myself, that would be interesting utility.

[muted halo]

GOOD

[muted halo]

it would be nice utility to use for saving a medgun medium when he is being dived

[plucky spade]

these newgens vro

[muted halo]

yo, that would be dope

[eager wasp]

Tf2 overrated

[unkempt moss]

Greener with the bad take, who would have guessed lmayo

[placid slate]

They fixed 1 of the no regs

Emphasis on 1

[unkempt moss]

My mom just kicked me out of the house for eating her $300 grocery order in one sitting. Im off the finals for a bit, guys.

[swift cradle]

Even embark agreed. It's not even a stun gun anymore. It's a ctrl+ f4 gun 🔫

I like the name change

[coarse grove]

is it me or arn is kinda ass

[radiant elbow]

yeah no way it lasts for that long

[lavish swallow]

I like this concept a lot. This seems to prevent it from being a melee counter/free kill generator, while preserving its ability to cancel steals. Cant wait to try it out

[slow linden]

Average heavy main activities

[slow linden]

(I meant light main,they main heavy in real life)

[eager wasp]

Rob I think was the one that said it, it lasts for like 4.5-5 seconds

[eager wasp]

gotta ragebait the tf2 enjoyers sometimes ya know

[swift cradle]

Me when I get hit by nullifier

[cunning wyvern]

they added any new gadgets or weapons yet?

[jagged flume]

None since S6 dropped

[native meadow]

None since s6

[native meadow]

Hi

[slow linden]

It will give me a free reposition and the light will be doomed

[lucid gale]

ARN needs a damage buff

[slow linden]

No it's perfect as is

Hit your headshots

[exotic skiff]

New stungun gonna be broken if the video is true

[unkempt moss]

Takes a lot of calories to support the brain it takes to play heavy.

[slow linden]

True

[slow linden]

It'll prevent past second steals but that's all

[exotic skiff]

Not rlly you stun someone that an instant 2v3

[haughty ferry]

it would have other uses you can essentially remove one of the players froma fight for acouple seconds

[exotic skiff]

That legit broken and old stungun was fine

5 sc in a fight is all it take to wipe a team that insane

[haughty ferry]

i wouldnt say its broken and the thing about stungun it wasnt a super op gadget it was just super annoying and unfun to play against as its essentially a free kill for a light

def very good thou

[slow linden]

Triple light will be annoying but they're still only lights

[exotic skiff]

Giving ur team a free 2v3 is broken

You always stun the heavy and that a 2v3 without any shield or utile

[slow linden]

True

It would mean standard team lineups would be pointless

[exotic skiff]

And not beeing able to shoot is way more frustrating than just beeing slow

[haughty ferry]

yes but still people could easily counter it if your pushing into fights that hard than your doing something wrong anyways

[slow linden]

More triple medium,triple heavy and HHM teams will be seen now

[exotic skiff]

No because you can just get jumped on and then you need to fight

[slow linden]

I run with a HHM team so I will be less effected by it

[exotic skiff]

Imagine having two light, you Can create a litteral 1v3

HHM against light suck tho

[haughty ferry]

your underthinking it

[slow linden]

Less is not nothing,there will still be an effect

[haughty ferry]

your only thinking about the rare scenario where you get jumped instantly by a enemy team without knowing that they are about to jump you

[slow linden]

Me or him

[exotic skiff]

Because that how HML work you jump into people with glitch, or even use tp to get the surprise

[slow linden]

HML will be pointless for sure

[exotic skiff]

No it would still be the best comp

[slow linden]

A lot of triple lights and medium with two lights will be seen

[exotic skiff]

That just gonna be which light is better at using stun

And ranked is not a good vision of the meta Always have been a fiesta of everything

You could play anything and still win 90% of the ranked tbf that more about good team vs good team. You can't rlly run triple light is the people you play against are very good

[slow linden]

Triple mediums probably mid tier now,used to be the best but now you can just stun them out of reality when they defib and get 2 free kills

I rejoice in mediums suffering,they've been at the top for far too long

It's just a shame heavy isn't the one to knock mediums down a peg

[graceful nova]

Contestant rodeo: light players can jump onto their heavy teammates. They can fire while on their teammate’s back.

[slow linden]

I need this

[exotic skiff]

Triple medium have never been the best, and Always far from it

[slow linden]

I never lose when I mindlessly defib and heal chain

[exotic skiff]

That just easy to play that all

You encounters a good stack you will perma loose

[slow linden]

I outlast all fights and get last second steals every time

[exotic skiff]

And like I said ranked is not a good point of view for meta

You could play anything and win everything

[slow linden]

I prefer to play heavy but riot shield and cl40 stacking is extremely funny to do on occasion

[unkempt moss]

The meta is designed by the top .0001% you should listen to him drywall.

[slow linden]

And I'd be throwing If I didn't mindlessly run defib

[unkempt moss]

The bottom 99% don’t matter.

[exotic skiff]

That not what I said, I am just saying it's not because many people do something that it's good

[slow linden]

Fuck the meta I play for fun not for victory

[unkempt moss]

That’s why you don’t matter. You’re not a top 500 player so kick rocks.

Never post again

[exotic skiff]

Again read what I said before beeing sarcastic

[slow linden]

Only a quarter of all ruby players actually belong there,the rest were either boosted or are alt accounts of talented players to gatekeep and a few cheaters

[exotic skiff]

We are talking without insulting and you come here to do that

[slow linden]

That's how it is in the states at least

[unkempt moss]

The truth is a triple stack of mediums running defib, if they aren’t absolute morons, crushes the bottom 99%. Thats what drywall is saying.

[exotic skiff]

And like I said yes because triple medium is the easiest to play

But not the best

[unkempt moss]

So what determines the meta?

Are you saying we should care what tournament players are doing?

[exotic skiff]

Meta is what's the best of the best

[slow linden]

Whatever people don't complain about that never gets nerfed,and mainly boring automatics,no goofy gun will ever be meta

[exotic skiff]

Yes and no I think on a game like the finals it's hard to define it and be sure because of the state of the game and lack of player

If we had more player, we would have more insanely talented player and be able to have a better view of what the best

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, I think that’s the worst way to go about determining what’s meta. The competitive scene is so unimportant, and represents the least important subset of players.

[exotic skiff]

That why I said yes and no

So yeah anyway the % of player in tournament is so small and they are not agreeing to the same thing so the meta is hard to define imo

But I rlly think from my perspective that triple medium is not the best but the easiest to play by far

[slow linden]

Ranked is where happiness goes to die,past silver there's no real strategy,no build variety,everyone is the exact same,and they act the exact same

[exotic skiff]

There is actually a lot of variety

[slow linden]

Easiest is best,why go the skilled route,why strategize when you can just beat everyone with attrition

[slow linden]

The few are not the rule,they're the exception.

[tight saffron]

sonar is the best for light

[slow linden]

Anything that scans is really good,honestly I like running tracking dart with sonar with the matter and cloak and breach charges,it's great

All are seen

[unkempt moss]

I usually judge what’s meta based on what’s effective at the most levels with the least amount of effort.

Because that shows what the largest group of people will be playing in general. You can separate it if you want and have casual, ranked, tournament, 10u, 12u, or however and talk with more nuance that way.

But I think wt/ranked represents the largest player base in the game and is really only the only “meta” that matters. Really the only thing that I would say is best in slot is the defib as it permeates every single rank from bronze to ruby, and is present in the highest level of competition.

I’ve always advocated against the balancing for the highest level of play in games like this because it doesn’t matter what’s strong to the highest level of play. They will use it regardless of what it is. If tomorrow Embark made grapple sword insane then the highest level would adopt that because that’s what they need to do.

The 99.999% of players aren’t coordinated, skilled, or dedicated enough to worry about fractions of a fraction of an advantage that certain things give you. Thats why my group and I can run like flame thrower, CL40, spear with some dogass meme build and still climb very easily.

[sweet grotto]

Nerf the CB's fire rate.
Nerf Cerberus damage.
Nerf CL back to where it was.
Nerf defib:

• Either limit it's pick rate per team to prevent 3x Medium defibs or lower the defib health regain for Medium as a deterent.
  Buff Riot Shield or change it's mechanics.
  Buff dual blades, or change their mechanics.
  Bring back KS and other animation cancels for specializations.
  Add a grenade indicator.
  Put glitch mines on Light or Heavy and nerf them. Maybe have their do a burst of glitch, not a consistent one.

Overall, I believe this game is suffering from Medium's current style. It is designed to be able to do basically everything combat-wise, which is ridiculous. You want to snipe? Medium can do it. You want to melee? Medium can do it. You want to use a shotgun at close quarters? Medium can do it.
I understand that Medium is meant to be a Jack of all trades kind of deal, but it should be capable at most, but a master at nothing in specific. Instead, it's a must-have for sweats who want to optimize everything, and they get the best of both worlds because of how Medium currently it.

Medium can perform support duties:

• Healing
• Defib
• Mines
• Turrets

Medium can perform movement duties:

• Zipline
• Jump Pad
• Demat

Medium can perform combat effectively and indepedently with it's variety of weapons.

• You can have 1 person for long range.
• 1 for close.
• 1 for mid.

Medium is the problem in this game because it has essentially nill drawbacks, BESIDES area destruction... which can now just be substituted with expo canisters and grenades. Change how Medium works, stop freaking out about Light and Heavy being too strong, they both have very noticable weaknesses, while Medium really doesn't (other than destruction). It's infuriating seeing the 3x Medium meta, and it's even more unfun to play against. You made 3 classes for a reason, make them all a viable choice, preferably being LMH instead of a 3x of ANY CLASS.

Also, criticism is welcome.

[royal pier]

So the Nullifier is likely to commonly result in two outcomes:

A. The team that lands the Nullifier gets to several seconds of 3v2, and the third player is a free kill after that.

B. The 3v2 leaves the team that Nullified low enough that the one that got nullified gets a free cleanup.

[slow linden]

Cl40 is fine,if anything it's underpowered (only due to shitty hitreg)

[final geyser]

Just want to say that yall may see a lot of negativity in these chats, but I can say for sure that so many of us love this game so much embark and that’s where our passion for game balance stems from. Keep up the good work we love you and I am so excited for the midseason patch!

[plucky spade]

Bind k explode yourself

[tender python]

Wtf are you on about, your saying looking at the players that don't care about anything but winning and who apparently only use what's best with no diversity is a bad place to look at when trying to decide what the best weapon is????

[slow linden]

You're so real for this

[slow linden]

I pray for outcome B to be the situation I am delivering constantly

[slow linden]

This will never happen if I am with even one random,my boys are the only teammates I can be truly effective with

[tender python]

Something I don't really get is if they are good at everything and can fill in for the rolls of others why is it 3x m instead of 2x M and 1x H/L since heavy is better at holding space the mediums can focus less on holding space and similar concept for light

[tender python]

Lights should never get a mine, especially not glitch mine when they have glitch grenade. what mines do is hold space and lights are not supposed to be good at holding space like that

[unkempt moss]

Sure. That’s what I said

[tender python]

The weapon diversity wasn't what you said, Apologies. but everything else applies

[unkempt moss]

Okay

Thank you for apologizing

[tender python]

Also competitive players are just as important as casual players, because they're the ones that will actually stick around even when something else new comes around.

[unkempt moss]

You’re right

[tender python]

So why did you say they're the least important? Did you mean in this context They're the least important?

[unkempt moss]

If I couldn’t get my point across with the effort post I won’t able to do it right now. So I concede. I thought I made my point clear enough, so that’s on me.

All good.

[royal pier]

I assume they mean that the top level players are basically playing a different game from the rest of the community.

For example, the SA1216 was a long time top level meta weapon, but I hardly saw it in most Quick Cash and WT matches.

[tender python]

So like sojourn OverWatch?

[royal pier]

I quit that game ages ago.

But yeah I think so.

She requires absurd accuracy to be effective, right?

[tender python]

Tbh I did too, I was mainly memeing. But yes, their kit is centered around one-shoting people with headshots once every like 10 seconds

[royal pier]

I guess a good example would be how the minigun can be really effective, but your team needs to be focused on supporting it.

This game isn't like Val/CS where even the casual community is competitive.

Most players of this game are in Quick Match, TDM, and WT if you go by queue times (the only metric we can really use).

Although, the balance atm is so shit that it's pretty safe to say the XP-54 and Cerberus are absolutely meta.

The Pike and Repeater are in a weird place where they aren't going to be popular with your average player, but cracked aimers will dominate with them.

Famas is also busted, but again the average player doesn't like burst. They also probably don't know that the hipfire when crouched is insanely OP.

[unkempt moss]

This is pretty much correct. Embark said they get 300k unique players a month. So ruby makes up 0.0017% of the population of the game. They are playing highly coordinated, with skilled players, who dedicate themselves to the game.

[tender python]

Wait why specifically when crouched? Is it like crouching before the burst for higher accuracy?

Why not just ads

[royal pier]

Crouched hipfire

[unkempt moss]

I also said in that post, if you want to have a more nuanced conversation about meta then you have to designate which meta you’re referring to. Because the meta and balancing for top 500 represents such a small subset of people it’s almost irrelevant. This subset also represents the most fluid group of players as far as loadout in that they will go to whatever is good because they are there to win only. This is even more so true for tournament/pro players who represent an even smaller percentage of the population.

[royal pier]

It's absurdly tight, making it easy to get eliminations at close range, while still being a mid range monster.

[tender python]

But why is that better than ads?

[royal pier]

Can you easily track a burst fire weapon at 5m or less?

[tender python]

That makes sense, But why crouch instead of ads at mid-range?

[royal pier]

Crouching doesn't matter at mid range or while ADS.

[unkempt moss]

I don’t think he’s saying that. I think he’s saying you can make up for the guns weakness by crouching.

[royal pier]

Well except on the KS-23 kinda.

[royal pier]

Yeah, you basically get the close range hipfire accuracy of an SMG while still being strong and mid range.

[unkempt moss]

The FAMAS is supposed to struggle at close range, but be good in the mid to long. He’s saying this can be overcome by crouching.

[royal pier]

FCAR hipfire is also too good considering the mid range power it has.

[unkempt moss]

I feel like AK is just fine up close as well from the hip.

[tender python]

That makes a lot of sense thanks for explaining, I'm still not very knowledgeable about ads and crouching for aiming since I mainly played sword before the giga nerf

[royal pier]

It's annoying since they gave the SHAK-50 the double bullet gimmick to keep it from reliably competing with the ARs at mid range, but in exchange It's (supposed) to be better up close.

So they worked on balancing the Heavy's weapon, then just said "fuck it" for the FAMAS and FCAR, and honestly the AKM is also like 1% below them.

They always give Heavy gimmicky weapons with built in limitations, which is cool, but then just haphazardly buff Medium with seemingly little thought put into it.

[tender python]

Sorry that I keep questioning everything but what's the double bullet gimmick?

[unkempt moss]

SHAK fires two bullets with each shot

simultaneously, not burst

[tender python]

So why is that limiting it at range?

[sand monolith]

Casual players will play a game that’s balanced well for ranked. Competitive players won’t play a game that’s balanced for casual

[serene glade]

the bullets spread out, you cant hit both bullets at range

[tender python]

oh, okay that makes sense thanks

[serene glade]

remove ranked

[sand monolith]

S3 repeat

[tender python]

That's a crazy take

[sand monolith]

It’s true though. Look at games like valorant and cs. They have huge casual communities

[tender python]

No not you

[sand monolith]

Oh yeah that makes more sense

[tender python]

I actually think that's very accurate

[sand monolith]

Removing ranked is quite the take

[serene glade]

whats the point of it

[plucky spade]

Ofc you did

[tender python]

I like cool movement in video game

[unkempt moss]

tips hat

[plucky spade]

Does dash phase you through opponents?

[unkempt moss]

I dont think there is player collision in this game. Or it doesnt feel like it.

[sand monolith]

having a place for more competitive players to play and progress

personally i would never play this game without ranked

[serene glade]

so the game isnt fun?

without ranked points

[sand monolith]

the game is fun when im fighting players who are also trying their hardest to win

but no i personally dont have fun stomping casuals in world tour and quick cash

[serene glade]

so its like a self worth thing?

[sand monolith]

what no

its just a difference in why people play games. i personally play fps games for a competitive environment and hard matches

plenty of people play to relax and goof around, completely makes sense thats just not why i personally play the game

[unkempt moss]

Sounds kinda like you derive self worth from your RS but it’s all good.

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-morgan-freeman-true-nodding-gif-13973817878387504960

[mental iris]

how do u counter lockbolt everytime i get hit by it it feels like an immediate death sentence

[eager wasp]

pray

gateway, goo grenade, data reshaper, kabooms

[unkempt moss]

Data reshaper

[eager wasp]

pray a second time

hope for some divine intervention

[unkempt moss]

I have a theory that googun can stop it, but I haven’t had the opportunity to try it

[mental iris]

but when i use it to drop or escape im just gonna hang by it xD

[serene glade]

Not demat, reshaper

[eager wasp]

i think you are thinking of demat, data reshaper will get rid of the lockbolt

[mental iris]

got it but is data reshaper overall that good for other scenarios

[eager wasp]

its very situational imo

[unkempt moss]

If you’re willing to learn it. Good enough to get nerfed recently I guess.

Stops a lot of things. Glitch trap and data stop a lot of things.

It’s my favorite medium gadget.