💣┇weapons-gadgets

[twilit mason]

this

[toxic plover]

I cooked?

Let's gooo

[crisp lintel]

😂

[toxic plover]

Check out my melee proposal too.

Small buff melee magnetism to compensate for desync and ping

Sledge:
Heavy attack 200-> 210
Light attack 115->125

Spear:
Spin 105-> 120 and remove the third spin or make it input based.
65,80,90->85 flat

Riot shield:
Light attack 90->90
Swing damage is okay, swing speed needs to be increased slightly Like 10%. Increase hitbox registration.
Special attack
Blocking is great and all, but there's almost no reason to block when you can passively block so let's lean into that. Be able to slide and jump while blocking. Slide blocking basically makes you unable to take damage unless very neich angles or AOEs.

Duel blades:
Light attack 50×2, 60×2, 70. -> remove third hit, standardize damage to 55×2 per input.
Special attack deflect-> add headshot multiplier, fix deflect hit registration

Sword:
Light attack 74->75
Special attack charge 140->145

Dagger:
Light attack 50->unchanged
Special attack 320->350 if they backstab a heavy they are gonna do the quick melee anyways so it's a small QOL. Also decrease backstab angle by 15° so you cannot be backstabbed with you back against a wall no matter what.

[crisp lintel]

Now to be honest I'm good on buffing melee haha

But the dagger 15° change would be legit

[toxic plover]

Legit as in is very much needed?

I just feel like if the game is going to be successful then it needs to not reglect 20% of it's weapons because shotguns beat out melee every single time even when melee is in its optimal range. Unfortunately there's no way to make sledge out DPS the SA12

[toxic plover]

Also when you say you are good, does that mean you agree or you would rather go without?

[crisp lintel]

Ild rather go without

But I'm open to here more on why you believe these changes are necessary

[placid ruin]

Unfortunately no, fanmade

[twilit mason]

would really like to see more duel wield options

and more like custom reload options , fluorishes and things

[plush harbor]

Nah

[twilit mason]

this is peak dude 10/10

[plush harbor]

Actually I take back what I said

-10 hps is worth more sustain for sure

[toxic plover]

Thank you for asking, really.

As a heads up I'm going to make up numbers for the sake of my argument because I don't want to look them up.

I think from a game balance perspective, weapons need to be strongest at their intended There may even need to be a rework to implement reverse falloff(more damage the further away you hit shots up to a point). From long range to melee, a pike should outperform every single weapon outside of Sniper at its intended range the same way Fcar and AKM need to be able to outperform model and Cerberus at anything more than 15 meters. The balancing falls apart when we get to melee because by the standard I have set, melee should outperform shotguns because melee is strong from 0-3 meters where shotguns should be strong from 5m-10m especially since shotguns can still provide value from range even if it's Minimal, at the very least it still prevents HP Regen. Unfortunately shotguns just outperform melee outright, even in melees intended range. I think even just punishing barrel stuffing with reverse falloff would be great and nerfing SH to where it can't two shot a heavy would fix alot of my issues

[toxic plover]

Awsome. Cause I think 30m and through walls is insane, it would not only make it a healing tool but effective as a pushing tool, especially for randoms that run off

[plush harbor]

I think the distance and walls is too much

Way too much of a buff for -10hps
Plus heal beam shouldn’t be ranged, I think it works better and is balanced better if the medium is close to the healbeam recipient
Keeps it balanced

[toxic plover]

I disagree because 40hps to 30hps is a huge difference

[toxic plover]

Thanks bro

[twilit mason]

through walls would be a huge buff!! keep the range and rate, maybe a slight drop off thru walls, like 35 if any drop off

[toxic plover]

I think rewarding LOS is a good idea and punishing through walls is good too.

[toxic plover]

Would that be acceptable?^

[twilit mason]

i definitely know what los means

[toxic plover]

Line of sight

[toxic plover]

@plush harbor how do y'all feel about my analysis for why melee should be buffed

[twilit mason]

i say yes but only such that flamethrower needs a nerf 😭

in regards to the heavy people just use the flamethrower, which with its range its effectively a strong ass melee

[toxic plover]

I'll agree to a flamethrower nerf if it also gets the following buffs

Increase range from 8m to 10m
Increase hitbox by 20%
Increase burn time by +1sec
Remove outlines on enemies when being blinded by fire.
And then I'll accept a actually flame damage nerf

[plush harbor]

won’t change my mind about it being a terrible idea

[twilit mason]

significant damage buff 😭

[mystic nimbus]

i didn't read the analysis and i don't need to read it but melee doesn't need a buff, it just needs bug fixes and some qol improvements and that's it (I am a melee weapons main so don't think i am hating on melee or smth)

[toxic plover]

Dude a significant damage nerf is fine if it turns into a soft pressure monster

Litteraly wouldn't dare run through a door if it means being 360° blinded and beamed by his whole team, AND I'm loosing HP for a extra 6 seconds after hahaha

[neon canyon]

We need the arcflash GR-1 anvil from arcflash labs 😉

[toxic plover]

Can you at least read it?

[toxic plover]

What's that

[neon canyon]

Electromagnetic weapon that actually exists

Shoots like gauess rounds or ballistic gel

[toxic plover]

Saw a video and nothing exploded, I'm unimpressed

[toxic plover]

What if the damage went from 30 to 15 on the flamethrower for those buffs

[twilit mason]

dude like 6 😭

[toxic plover]

Might still be fine? Burn damage is kinda high already

[toxic plover]

I say 10 damage and add +1 more second of burn time and it would be good

[young lava]

Anyone got the heartbreaker set? if so, is thgere anything special like particles for the rpg

[shadow onyx]

Is lh1 still the meta for light

[toxic plover]

Yeah if anything the fire rate nerf was a shadow buff cause now it's easier to spam. -1 damage a shot is literally nothing

[crisp lintel]

When are we gonna get more weapon animations for Throwing knives, the best things are the cards-sissors-CDs but what about regular animations

[toxic plover]

What did you think about my reasoning for the melee buffs?

[crisp lintel]

I understand where your coming from, still didn't love the riot shield slide haha I get recked when they run at me anyway 😂

[toxic plover]

Haha no I understand trust me,(I don't understand I only play sledge heavy and I eat riot shielders). Just gotta play with your team and force them to open up their open side while you flee

[toxic plover]

I would prefer that blocking just turns the riot shield into the size of a barricade to make blocking worth a fuck, but embark is lazy so the most I can hope for is number changes and beg for animation changes like with riot shield

[crisp lintel]

I could get down wit that

[toxic plover]

I want to see more fantasy weaponry. Like hitting block with riot shield will make small see through barricades with like 600 health for blocking doors and self sustain and shit, hate that everything is just guns and light has the interesting shit

[crisp lintel]

Forsure, ever consider a Flail as a heavy melee?

[toxic plover]

Only if the special attack turns it into a ranged projectile like winch. Otherwise check this out.

great sword

parry mechanic
does an upward slash (opposite of sledge direction)
while holding parry teammates can use as a portable launch pad
to balance have a stamina meter for parry (block meter)
momentum based slashing (longer time swinging faster it attacks) (first 4-5 swings, the speed increases then stays at max speed for 15-25 more swings)

4 special attacks to destroy wall. Special attacks take 2 seconds from start up of parry pose.
while parrying blocks 25% of dmg
35 dmg for primary swing (maybe less dmg per swing)
250 dmg for secondary (charged upwards slash)

[crisp lintel]

Forsuree that sounds sick

[toxic plover]

I need a greatsword so bad I'm not even kidding

[crisp lintel]

I'm surprised they didn't do the bench with the spear as secondary, throw/grab instead of the spin garbage

[toxic plover]

I don't understand your message

[crisp lintel]

Like The winch claw* they should have made the spear secondary a throw instead of the spin, then they pull the rope back, I was expecting the spear to be a throwable

Speaking of ropes though, wish you could change the color of your deployable zipline and grapple

[toxic plover]

Yeah it's a big shame cause spear spin fucking sucks

[crisp lintel]

Forreal

[toxic plover]

Yeah I wish winch had skins

[toxic plover]

I mean you'll cook a invis light who gets too close, but that's it

[crisp lintel]

Or dash "faze" colors, healing beam colors, goo, smoke, just throwing out cosmetic ideas at this point haha

[toxic plover]

Green smoke is diabolical

[restive plover]

Goblin Gas

[toxic plover]

I ment cause it would look like gas so people would avoid it

[crisp lintel]

Would be power play though!

[toxic plover]

Ha yeah

[toxic plover]

@true ravine

Imma start us out an easy one, something we can both agree on, the spear.

I both think the third spin should be removed, and the first two spins are one spin each per input so if you press special a third time, it'll just do the first spin again.(Significantly faster than current situation)

[cunning kettle]

actually dagger can b asically 1-shot all classes so it should get nerfed to the ground

[toxic plover]

How do you feel about my melee analysis?

[cunning kettle]

didnt read shit

[toxic plover]

Would you?

[cunning kettle]

i just came back to this server

i aint reading allat

[toxic plover]

Gay

[cunning kettle]

bro didnt even give me a location to read and he calling me gay

man do i remember why i left this server in the first place

[true ravine]

oh i thought you were going to continue

[toxic plover]

Alright bro I'm sorry, you said you wouldn't read it my bad here

[true ravine]

feedback

[true ravine]

i guess its a good thing mods dont really look in this channel

[toxic plover]

Here @cunning kettle

[toxic plover]

Nah I called them "special" in the not okay way and the gearbox bot told me to not do that

[cunning kettle]

mods dont care that much unless you call someone out for posting borderline nsfw shit, and then you get banned and called a r*pist in the ban message

[toxic plover]

I was pretty frustrated after the mid season patch

[toxic plover]

Thank you for asking, really.

As a heads up I'm going to make up numbers for the sake of my argument because I don't want to look them up.

I think from a game balance perspective, weapons need to be strongest at their intended There may even need to be a rework to implement reverse falloff(more damage the further away you hit shots up to a point). From long range to melee, a pike should outperform every single weapon outside of Sniper at its intended range the same way Fcar and AKM need to be able to outperform model and Cerberus at anything more than 15 meters. The balancing falls apart when we get to melee because by the standard I have set, melee should outperform shotguns because melee is strong from 0-3 meters where shotguns should be strong from 5m-10m especially since shotguns can still provide value from range even if it's Minimal, at the very least it still prevents HP Regen. Unfortunately shotguns just outperform melee outright, even in melees intended range. I think even just punishing barrel stuffing with reverse falloff would be great and nerfing SH to where it can't two shot a heavy would fix alot of my issues

[true ravine]

sounds about right. Dont really understand why they would silence you when the bots alr do so. As ive asked in this server b4, "what do the mods actually do here that the bots cant?" and what other responsibilities do they have? Cause having a community update message to show the path embark is taking with the finals would be great. Having them actually say that 5.8 was the mid season patch was a huge relief. Went from "this game dead, this game dead" to "aight we wait". But nope we get oscar just brainrot commenting on stream

[cunning kettle]

lemme dig out a ss rq

[toxic plover]

Maybe it's just a power display or something. Someone posted a peak meme and someone else tagged a mod and the mod removed it and gave a warning. Party poopers really

[cunning kettle]

my friend found this and its lowkey hilarious

[toxic plover]

Figured we would do one item at a time because now I don't have to paragraph you

[true ravine]

heheh its p funny

[cunning kettle]

my first mistake was thinking the mods were smart enough to distinguish crying noises from a different high pitched noise

[toxic plover]

Hahahaha damn

[true ravine]

tho i did make a bomb joke about embark not pushing a mid season patch which got me silenced for a bit :^)

[cunning kettle]

my friend got banned for saying "embark made me hate the sweds" or smth like that 💀

[toxic plover]

You were the guy I talked to before or the guy who actually did it?

[cunning kettle]

spaceboy is the one who posted the meme, i was the one that pinged bailey

[toxic plover]

😂😂😂

[toxic plover]

Aw shit that's funny. I thought you said you pinged cube

[cunning kettle]

cube scares me

[toxic plover]

???why

[cunning kettle]

say something a tiny bit wrong and im probably gonna get a warning or smth

[toxic plover]

Ha

[toxic plover]

"keeping the peace" ig

[fringe grove]

Hey anyone know if cl40 got a ninja nerf? Feels impossible to do damage with again

[toxic plover]

Sounds like a server issue dunno gl

[true ravine]

For all that posturing about race and being politically and socially polite the mods can be surprisingly insensitive at times. I saw a message once by one of the cms where a new dude came online and sent a msg in chinese and his response was "nihao, please use english". Like gee, i wonder if the guy understood that in english too

[cunning kettle]

lowkey

[toxic plover]

That's kinda funny too. I wanna make an excuse for him like he's a dumbass, but that's what being insensitive is so

[proud onyx]

New Specialization suggestion for Medium, range limited damage booster on medium. This can come in the form of a red rally flag or special box of bullets players can walk up to and get the buff. Range would shown by a red circle radius large enough for a small room but not too big to where it’s broken. Buff would be on a timer 45 seconds to a minute. Rally flag or damage buff bullet box would be destroyable.

[toxic plover]

I want lockbolt mines. One single tether, doesn't go away until the mine is destroyed.

[grand rivet]

no

[late sequoia]

Yeah, as is there's really no counter to competent dash lights outside of god tier 100% headshot accuracy aim, bruce lee reaction times, or heavy with CQC weapons.

[toxic plover]

winchclaw nerfs too

[toxic plover]

big brain move to throw down a lockbolt mine then winch a light into it. they use up all their dashes

[true ravine]

ah the balancing nightmare of lights. always annoying individually but a curse for teamplay

[late sequoia]

Unless they're actually good, and then you get light teams utterly SWEEPING 2v1 odds because they dodge twice the rounds other classes do, they heal back up so fast that the literal support/healer class generally doesn't even bother trying to heal them, and they output DPS fast enough to invalidate even Heavy's massive health pool (with reload speeds generally fast enough to down an enemy reload MID COMBAT and down another in a 2v1).

[true ravine]

ok ill be frank for this. If you lose a straight 2v1 to a light thats p much on you and your teammate. But other than that, in ttk alone. LH1 still stands as a complete anomaly. The fact that you can out dps a fcar and famas in a straight fight if you hit your headshots (which is p easy on lh1) is crazy, they literally cant kill a 150hp goblin in the time it takes the lh1 to kill them at 250hp. Add on the fact that lights typically ambush and fire first, theres basically no hope in an equal fight. M11 body shots can also compete very closely with medium ars.

That being said. LH1 and m11 seem to be unusual outliers for their proper range engagement. Most of the other weapons are ok in general (just more annoying overall like sh's killing potential). In terms of reload speed, light weapons are almost the same as mediums apart from the 2 pistols being far faster so im not too sure how youre deriving your info. Sounds more anecdotal to me though most experiences with lights are very frustrating. But that was what i was getting at, the reason why lights still have lower pickrates in ranked/high elo and extremely high pickrates in casual is because its a killing machine when facing teams that dont coordinate or dont have good comms which is basically all of WT and QC. Forward thinking strategies are also a rarity in these gamemodes so lights go feasting. Even without a good light, they are still very frustrating to deal with. Which is why its a balance nightmare because lights just crutch on the instrinsic aspects of their weapons and build rather than optimizing it through skill

[true ravine]

Oh yeah just wanted to add on the forward strategies part. People really need to get used to have swaps for light playstyles. Im coming from the perspective of a sword light (no not the spamming lunge or left click kind tho the former is very good for multiple people) and ive killed entire teams with the sword alone that were together. From what i see, its almost always due to the complete lack of preparation or positioning. Teams stealing cashouts are particularly guilty of this. My dude. 2 people just standing there and watching around randomly isnt gonna be helping. Let alone panicking and spinning round when im right on top of them. Think a little, use mines, use jumppad, movement is vital for a light and having anything that disrupts movement is deadly. Even things like prepping for drop is so vital but almost no one does it ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[late sequoia]

Ambush and fire first, plus movement speed, plus MASSIVE insta-jump dash ability (that has a contrail effect which blurs your model making hits insanely unlikely outside of top skill virtually-aimbot players).

Also, it's not just a couple pistols.
V9S and 93R do indeed have sub-2s reloads... but so does the M11, and we won't even talk about the knives/bow effectively having zero reload EVER.

Even the SH1900 has an insanely fast reload beating out the Revolver (let alone the massive 3s short 4s long-reload on the 1887 or the Cerberus's 2.45s 1-shot reload (not to mention the 2.65s for all 3 shots on Cerb).

Even the longest reload on Light (3s for the SR84) is only the same as the Pike, despite the Pike being a significantly inferior weapon in every regard except the bullet velocity (not that pike can really do anything but tag someone who's not practically standing still more than once or at MOST twice past 40m, thanks to the motion blur and movement in the game).

The ONLY gun on light that's not worlds above in terms of down/up-time vs killing speed would be the XP-54, but that thing's still an absolute LASER beam with it's insanely easy to control recoil.

Meanwhile, the Medium's "standard" (read: not CL40/shotguns/melee) weapons are a far cry from any of that.
Slow kill speeds, bad recoil, and horrible damage per mag to reload speed ratios (literally worst in the game, excluding the revolver IF you land at least 5 headshots per reload, which assumes +84% accuracy at all ranges in a game where the average person has a 25% accuracy rate).

The FAMAS is geared almost exclusively for +35m range, yet it's damage falls off at 37m and it's 3x burst can't be reliably controlled enough to hit all 3 shots per burst on a medium (let alone a light) past about 25-30m.
FCAR's got that utterly mule kick recoil for THE most critical part of the pattern where you need to land as many shots as you can before the enemy flees or fights.

[late sequoia]

Jump pad is generally not going to help much, it gets you away from the sword and directly into line of fire from all other enemies rendering you helpless until the sword light can get you (if you're still alive).

Also, there should be NO circumstance where it takes advanced prep with mines or a group effort to drop a single melee light as your only recourse.

[true ravine]

the jumppad is not always for you, ive also baited sword players into dashing and flying away as they hit the jumppad instead. Though you are free to take it if the situations allows. But if your team is there. a sword light hanging in the air is a dead light (if there are no dashes). When i mention about mines, its for all types of lights. Sanguine is a particularly good example of how effective routing + mines/deployables can absolutely shit on lights. Id say the one exception to this is the lh1 beaming you from mid to long. And i didnt mention that team effort is required. Using your positioning and preparation is vital at all stages of the game. The problem is that people really REALLY suck at it, even in lower ranks to plat. And what class loves to exploit this shit? Lights.

like i said. even the most basic defense strategies for cashouts like playing for drop is almost never implemented (at least in my experience in asia region)

[late sequoia]

the jump pad generally just gives a dashing light enough height to hit you regardless of whether you have high ground.
Not really viable 99% of the time (i've tried).

[true ravine]

which spreadsheet are you using btw. I would like to take a look

[late sequoia]

official wiki

https://www.thefinals.wiki/wiki/Builds

[true ravine]

then this is p much anectodal, a moot point. For me, jumppadding has always been a good way of avoiding 99% of sword lights. There alr arent a lot of good ones so its p effective

[late sequoia]

Well, "official" in that it's supported here and we have a channel specifically for it here on the official discord.

[late sequoia]

You can also counter it by simply jumping over the pad, not exactly an effective method.

[true ravine]

hmm im using one thats been updated for 5.3.0. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ weapon numbers need to be in the game

[late sequoia]

Yeah, I want Planetside 2 weapon data charts for everything.

[true ravine]

Like i alr said, your experience and mine is mostly anecdotal. I have experience great success w it while you havent. Anymore conversation over this would turn p ugly i think

but what we can see at the very least is that good routing, movement and positioning with mines,nades, deployables can absolutely slap lights around. Of course the skill required for it would be greater than the average player skill. Like ive said b4, lights be crutching hard on their god given movement capabilities. its unfortunate that mediums and heavies have to sweat harder to outplay lights, but it is at least possible without being an aim god. Its also extremely rare for me to see players who can move well. Even things like basic window climbing to scale buildings seem to be out of reach for most players and even those who can dont do it very well, or just do it very slowly

also people need to use glitch mines more.

the trigger noise is so loud i can hear it from the next building. Also trinkets make little jingling sounds as well which you can hear. Its p funny to ambush lights because you herar their little trinket flying around

[late sequoia]

I keep trying to use these things, but they really seem to only encourage enemies rather than disadvantage them.

The singular use i've found is camping (more or less a death sentence, at BEST an extreme disadvantage thanks to the movement meta in this game) and praying you get a CQC light who's dependent on dash AND cloak as a crutch to actual skill.
In every other circumstance, the activation after deploy time takes so long it really can't be used aggressively unless the enemy both can't aim for shit AND has the movement knowledge of a toddler (read: none whatsoever and they just stand there strafing the same half square meter area over and over again).

If you've got a dash light with melee going after the platform on power shift, that's about the only use i've found for it so far.

It can't even interrupt CnS heavies while charging, so it's effectively useless against that.

Any other uses are so insanely niche/situational that you're effectively throwing just to set yourself up to be a mild inconvenience for less than 10 seconds. (IE, going +3 minutes without an actually viable tool like fire nades or flashbangs, just to drop a glitch mine from above onto a point/platform through a hole or from a roof to prevent a shield heavy from popping his shield, and that mine will be destroyed in 3-8 seconds tops.)

[true ravine]

flashbangs and pyro nades are viable.tools? wat

i assume.you.mean comparatively

[late sequoia]

Fire nades are AMAZING first-encounter force multipliers, GREAT area denial (IE, no cashout for several seconds), and flashbangs are the single best counter to melee heavy chases there are.

FBs are practically hard counters to sledge heavy in a 1v1.

Turn, run, soft throw it at your feet (it dets after you're past it so you get zero effects from it) , if the heavy chases he's blinded or has to break off/slow down.
If he's blind, free kill.
If he's not, free escape to a distance where you can plink him to death before he reaches you OR to half/less health before he gets away around a corner hoping you'll chase so he can smash you with the hammer.

[true ravine]

hmm now im.really.curious. have you been playing.since cb?

[late sequoia]

cb?

[true ravine]

close beta

[late sequoia]

Ah, no, I started at the end of S2, IIRC.

[true ravine]

oof a bad time to start but aight

[late sequoia]

Honestly, the game's been on a downward escillator since I started.

Everything fun gets nerfed to oblivion (latest fun thing that didn't need removal, jump pads on cashout/terminal launching them into orbit).

[true ravine]

what region btw

[late sequoia]

Every common sense balance and mechanic I can think of is purposefully ignored (IE, don't punish people from leaving matches if half their team is gone).

[late sequoia]

NA, you?

[true ravine]

rip. asia

[late sequoia]

Not to sound like a racist, but... i've played other PVP games on SEA servers... they tend to have MUCH better average players.

How in god's name are you finding so many outright incompetent players that you see regular success with simple "put down jump pad" utterly slapping melee lights or the majority of players not using movement basics like window vaulting?

[true ravine]

dunno. SEA players in the finals are p meh imo. Aim.wise, i think theyre better overall. but theyre p bad at movement and positioning. maybe thats the diff

[late sequoia]

The tricks you're advising me to use are so ineffective against the enemies I've been seeing that you've effectively listed ideas i've already tried and found are easily countered or outright ignored, meanwhile at LEAST half the guys im playing with are using movement basics that I essentially learned in my first month or so just in watching allies when I die.

[late sequoia]

Huh.
High aim, I expect, but I'd never have expected the movement thing.

Welp, it's like 4am here, I really should go to bed.

[true ravine]

i think executing a particular strategy is also up to the player. like for example, the sword, standard combo to start is the lunge + qm. Sounds p simple.to.execute. in reality, most people.simply miss or greatly overshoot their initial lunge. There are also frame perfect executions of the combo that will be faster than other light pulling it against you. Theres also purposely overshooting to qm from.the back for some additional time.to finish a combo with a left click. Effectively im only.mentioning the mechanical parts of a strategy. there are more.components and.considerations in its execution and application just like how you have your own anecdotal experience of things

these differences also.appear in the most basic of strategies. You will see both camps.of people.going "stun is a free kill, and "just turn around and beam them lmao" and both have their valid point even without outliers in.mechanical.skill, like being an aim god

even the core strats differ from.high to low elo. The sa12 is heavy's best weapon but its also not used very effectively on low elo due to the playstyle being quite different to be effective. High elo players also absolutely meme on pyro and flashbang and would rather trade it for double.movement/utility/defense

[toxic plover]

I'm just gonna say it. Sledge heavy attack should one shot medium

I'm not wrong, y'all are fucking wrong. Shotguns are OP af and nobody fucking cares. There's no reason for me to run sledge over SA and RPG

[toxic plover]

Nobody cares that shotguns are so powerful they make melee irrelevant

[true ravine]

calm down man

its just kinda the end state of melee in The Finals. It was never meant to be competitive with other close range weapons. As ive alr mentioned, theres risk to changing up melees like that. Community goes into a riot blah blah blah. you have high elo players shitting on melee as a concept. People will follow that sentiment. Its just the way it is, after the whole sword 4.0 debacle i think they will be even more cautious giving buffs to melees. Mind you it took them from 4.6 to 5.8 to effectively REVERT the sword. Not a buff. REVERT

[weak kernel]

I love sledge heavy and all but I've never needed to feel like it's competitively viable, getting ruined by smart lights and really anyone with good positioning and team support was part of the arrangement

granted cerb being buffed into more prominence probably makes it feel worse than ever (but I was always in the camp that buffing cerb was a bad idea)

[late wave]

The moment you start making people feel "forced" to play an entire QUICKPLAY match through without them leaving for the fear of punishment, then youll end up making the game so much worse bud. And the game is been balanced probably the most balanced its been in a while

[hardy dust]

Sledge is fine as is

Its good as a niche pick, and you can just follow up with a m1 for a quick kill

Also, sledge has the upside of destruction over sa12, but generally sa12 is just better (its literally the best heavy weapon)

[winter jay]

it needed something but they overdid it

[winter jay]

i think it should do 210 so i can QM

[weak kernel]

maybe faster reload but giving it higher damage and better range was IMO kind of goofy considering how it already let medium do the thing ranked players are constantly saying it's bad for medium to be able to do, shred up close

[winter jay]

all i wanted was a bit more fire maybe a spread buff

flat dmg buff is crazy

[spring grotto]

Dmg, reload spd, spread, and also making it of a few shotguns that can still melee combo

[plucky spade]

honestly this discussion for me feels like a pretty good point that the finals has nailed the balancing factor in some regards, just in the wrong way.

[plucky spade]

yeah that's how you counter melee, by not letting them get to you

[plucky spade]

kinda true, but it also felt like a peashooter beyond in your face.

[plucky spade]

Do you think they should buff ks-23, sledge and spear to bring them to the levels of other weapons?

[winter jay]

i think spear and KS need something, but sledge destruction utility is unreal

[brave solar]

Balancing melee weapons is a nightmare I’m not going to act like I know the correct path for spear, but the KS23 I think it’s in a great spot, just shadowed by competitors. Compare it to the model after 5.8: ks=100 damage per shot, model=99 damage per shot, they’ve buffed the dispersion back to what it was so both are pretty comparable. The problem with the KS is it just feels like shit to use sometimes due to the random spread while sprinting. But there’s an argument to be made that the trade off is the KS has destruction capabilities while the model gets the full accuracy while sprinting and jumping around. Food for thought!

[compact nexus]

Sledge is already one of two viable melees, with sword being the other ones

The only melee that need buffs are riot, dual blades, and spear (dagger is a gimmick weapon with the backstab mechanic, and is in a perfectly fine spot where its gimmick can work and is super strong but is also easily countered once you know how)

You could argue riot and dual blades are gimmicky cause of their blocks but uh that shit don't work and even if they did they aren't super strong so

[fallow oar]

season 5:

[brave solar]

Thing is if you buff riot or dual blades they just run over casual lobbies more than they already do. Melee weapons are wierd man so hard to tweak without breaking the game

[compact nexus]

They don't run over casuals at all LMAO maybe at the lowest of lowest where people have the aim of a cross-eyed chimpanzee that just got flashbanged but for the most part these weapons struggle immensely at all levels lmao

[brave solar]

I think you overestimate the skill of your average player LOL

[compact nexus]

Nah I've seen little timmies kill medium melees they really aren't strong at all lol

[brave solar]

I’m not gonna act like they’re good I agree they’re bad but the game just dies if you lose your casual playerbase to some shortsighted change

[compact nexus]

I can absolutely promise you buffing those options is not going to kill the casual player base unless they make that shit a pre nerf r6s shield

[fallow oar]

we all know what the fav class is. heavy gets diabolical nerfs for no reason, medium gets a bran new meh shotgun, and the 93r gets a nuclear buff. granted, the buff was needed but constant nerfs to other classes cuz god forbid the class wit the least health feels threatened by classes with mor health.

[compact nexus]

There is no "favorite class" please stop being delusional

[fallow oar]

nuh uh

[brave solar]

LOL

[fallow oar]

just sayin if you count all the nerfs and buffs since season 1 heavy has the most nerfs and the least buffs. whats so bad about bein a big guy

[compact nexus]

Heavy has also been the cornerstone of the meta since season 1 and also is the only class to receive a new specialization (excluding replacing an old one with demat) and also has consistently gotten new weapons and gadgets throughout the seasons

[brave solar]

and heavy since season 1 has also been almost uncontested most valuable class in the game

[fallow oar]

i get the rpg was a middle finger to lights but it made since with its almost minute long cooldown.

[compact nexus]

Rpg was a middle finger to everyone there's a reason why people would engage with it all the time lol

[brave solar]

And from what I’ve seen rpg is still a main stay in most heavy players kit even post nerf

[fallow oar]

ya and then they couldnt use their opening for like a minute

[compact nexus]

Oh no theyre forced to use their primary weapon how scary

[fallow oar]

ya its win rate was high but the class had its downsides (it still does). it was a easy to learn hard to master.

[brave solar]

is that a problem? (idk if I agree but I’ll entertain it for the sake of discussion)

[fallow oar]

i like the heavy primaries. im mclovin the Shaquille 50 rn. but certain weapons( the ks slug shotty) were down right unbearable.

[fallow oar]

not at all

[compact nexus]

Ks23 has always been decent cause of winch claw

The lmgs were booty cheeks to use in season 3 but they fixed that so

[brave solar]

Ks23 is my favorite weapon in the game! It is so sick!

does feel like shit sometimes I won’t lie but it’s a fun learning curve

[fallow oar]

ya but the reason why was :"try to use the SLUG shotty at more than close range and suffer diabolical travel time." it ruins the point of trying to make the medium range shotty

[winter jay]

i want to like the ks but i just feel outclassed by everything

like if i want range i take deagles if i want dmg take SA if i want destruction take sledge and the KS is like a jack of all trades

[fallow oar]

another fair point. why give the easy to learn class a hard to learn weapon? huh?

[brave solar]

especially after the animation cancel change you can’t shoot melee to cancel the pump feels terrible

[fallow oar]

the optics made them good but it also happened to all other weapons the m11 was trash until they gave it a red dot. whats ya point?

[winter jay]

yea i get that was a bug that affected one of the strongest weapons, but it also affected 2 pretty bad ones

i know the sniper got a dmg bufd but the ks got nothing

[brave solar]

Idk if I could consider it a bug even it just removes skill expression from the game. I think the game is on average less fun after the change LOL

[winter jay]

bug or not the claimed reason for removal was that it was unintended. I agree they removed some skill expression and that blows

[brave solar]

But they’ve got a history of removing fun. R.I.P goo ship my beloved ♥️

[winter jay]

they took nade grappling too. those were a good 2 weeks

[brave solar]

sooo fun.., for 2 weeks yep LOL

at least we still have the barricade jumppad, that’s still fun. Unfortunately requires you to run the most atrocious kit ever

[winter jay]

i dont know if they took vault kicking out yet, but the launch across the whole map bug requires a little coordination so i havent tried it yet. launching the cashout with winch and a barrels still works tho

i also think theres so form of goo ship back? it mightve been an old clip though

[compact nexus]

M11 was always good lol it rose to fame cause xp54 got nerfed

[brave solar]

I think I would have noticed I’m a goo ship connisuer I sit in the practice range for hours tryina make shit work

[winter jay]

ah prolly an old clip then. he had like a mostly broken barricade under a goobarell ball.

[brave solar]

If its what I’m thinking if I just call that the barricade jumppad

[compact nexus]

Ga dual blade exp goes up so slow

[winter jay]

it got launched with a frag

[brave solar]

you throw a nade under it?

[winter jay]

yea. old clip then

[brave solar]

Yeah that’s still in the game it’s one of the cool things we still got

[winter jay]

ok nice ill probably have to learn that one i usually run barricades anyway

[brave solar]

but yeah you have to run a terrible kit we’re talking goo gun, ks23 (or something else that can break a barricade easy without blowing it up) barricade, frag, then whatever

[winter jay]

does sledge just shatter the whole barricade?

[brave solar]

it’s inconsistent it sometimes launches the barricade and flips it over idk it probably can work it’s just finicky since the barricade needs to be detached(ungrounded)

[winter jay]

i see

more reasearch is required ig.

[brave solar]

I do recommend learning it though it’s very fun to mess around with

Definitely trolling the game doing it but it’s fun and that’s all that matters sometimes

[sand monolith]

heavy released as the most broken class ive ever seen in a class/hero shooter

it makes sense why it was nerfed so hard. and hes in a pretty good state now after midseason. a few buffs and nerfs are needed in some areas but overall power level is good

[compact nexus]

Lot of heavies acting like charge n slam nerf was the end of the world

[winter jay]

this one doesnt even need barricade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejNFB3i65RQ

or goo gun i should add

[spring grotto]

Sometimes i feel the shak eats booty too damn well… other times eh

[crisp lintel]

I honestly feel bad because charge and slam was top way to die for me, haven't died to it since, I can imagine that hurts there feelings 😂

[winter jay]

i have just learned that release CnS slam did 125. wtf were they smoking

[sand monolith]

Charge did 130 on the first hit

[winter jay]

no the finisher

[sand monolith]

Oh yeah

[winter jay]

the fact you could like instakill a heavy with it is insane

[sand monolith]

Yeah release state heavy was dumb and releasing the game so unbalanced genuinely did a ton of damage. Cause now that the game is more balanced, a lot of people blinded by nostalgia will say the game was better when everyone instakilled each other

[compact nexus]

The only thing that kept release state heavy in check was the fact that you could just one shot it with nukes (which it could also do but yknow map wide wall hacks could help with that)

If im not mistaken, mesh shield was incredibly strong and nearly indestructible, charge could triple hit VERY easily, lewis was the best gun in the game, dome had double(?) the hp, c4 nukes were the strongest version of nukes, rpg did 150

Thinking back the finals used to be so horribly balanced
A lot of people here want to go back to "make everything op!!!" but god damn was some stuff just frustrating back then lol like if you think cashout is uncompetitive now, bring back one shot team wipes and map wide wall hacks and people would beg for the current state

[fallow oar]

ya but it went from being op to being balenced to just tring to see how much they can dog on heavy

[compact nexus]

That is... not the case?

[fallow oar]

the charge and slam nerf was needed, i wont even try to argue abt that. but now former op things are barely viable.

im not saying they shouldve stayed op but at least keep em usable

[compact nexus]

Give one example of something being barely viable

Rpg is still great to pick up stray kills, charge is still very good at doing the same thing, dome is still used as a quick 360 defense, barricades are good, winch is still winch, every weapon except like mgl and spear feels good

Keep in mind mgl and spear were never very good

[fallow oar]

massive rpg cooldown plus a reload time thats gotten me killed like 14 times, charge is good, dome has 5 sec usefulness, barricades and winch have barely changed so still ok, sa16 was buffed then given to the light (26 matter), horrid damage dropoff for m60, spear and sledge are melee weapons so they cant really suck more, ksg is classified as a shotty when it really isnt so no crits plus travel time, lewis aint bad, deagles are ok-ish, mgl is mgl so it sucks, shaquille has a comically bad falloff. thats just weapons.

[winter jay]

i think the mgl feels all right, its just akward to use

[fallow oar]

this is the only point i agree with

[winter jay]

spear is complete dogshit though. it has single use in the launch tech other than that i could never justify it over sledge

[fallow oar]

id rather use dual blades than spear and they basically havent changed since launch

[winter jay]

if the put dual blades on heavy i think they would be better than the spear ngl

[fallow oar]

thats prob why their actually really balanced

cuz theres been no changes

[compact nexus]

If youre relying on rpg youre playing the game wrong, you should never have to rely on a singular gadget when your kit is made up of 3 gadgets, a primary, and a spec

5 seconds of usefulness is extremely good and lets heavy win gun fights even after taking initial damage, m26 is not a better sa12, they dont even function the same (ones a pump action mag fed, the other is automatic), m60 is still a good weapon the drop off just makes it so you cant cross map laser with it, and the ks isnt meant to be a sniper its meant to be played mid range and 100 body damage is valid enough to not need headshots, especially when the gun is half utility

[compact nexus]

They just got buffed and are still quite ass, sadly

Dual Blades

Basic attack

Increased the speed and duration of the lunge for each attack animation, making it easier to reach targets that are just out of range

Deflect

Decreased the dispersion angle of deflected bullets from 2.5 to 1, meaning deflected bullets are now more accurate

Decreased the damage modifier for direct hits from enemy bullets from 0.2 to 0.1, meaning players will now take less damage when deflecting hits at the center of the Blades' deflection angle

Decreased the damage modifier for glancing hits from enemy bullets from 0.4 to 0.3, meaning players will now take less damage when deflecting hits at the edge of the Blades’ deflection angle

Increased deflection angle from 25 degrees to 35 degrees, making it easier to block and deflect bullets

Decreased incoming melee damage modifier from 0.33 to 0.25, meaning players will take less damage from melee attacks when trying to deflect

Lunge is sadly still inconsistent and deflecting is still a gamble on if it actually works or not lol

Likewise spear also got buffed but is still pretty ass

Same update where the ks got a reload speed buff, actually

[orchid crest]

.

[gray kayak]

Even though the sniper was buffed has anyone else noticed how weird the centering of the reticle is now on quickscopes i have a sony tv that has center dot built into the game mode and i turned it on just to check and the center of my sniper scope is off to left by like half an inch of rip( at least on console controller ps5 ) and how weird the quick Meelee messes with the animations I feel like the sniper was so much more versatile but I'm struggling with it now ever since it go "buffed"

[river tinsel]

All melee weapons will kinda always be shit or very cheesy. you are bringing a knife to a gunfight. If you're running melee you need to remember that

[compact nexus]

You can only say that when the melee weapon actually functions properly first

[orchid crest]

.

[weary eagle]

Because of the slow average ttk in this game you can bring a knife to a gun fight

[sturdy linden]

or a stick

i like slapping people around with my big stick

i also like playing melee in this game

[worldly quartz]

Dagger supremacy

[solar bridge]

anyone happen to know the rpm of the pike? trying to think of a good rpm they can nerf it to while keeping current damage

I wanna say its 150 or 180 but idk

[obsidian heron]

is pike rlly that strong

[floral cloud]

sh1900 is the best

[solar bridge]

75 meter range with 50 damage per shot yes it is that strong

[obsidian heron]

in ranked is it oppressive tho

I just came back to the game havent played since s2 was p1 then and everyone just rocked fcar and heals so thats what im stil doing lol

[solar bridge]

every medium that knows what they're doing is running the pike rn. the cerberus is strong but it doesn't do what it does at 75 meters

[hardy dust]

Imo ks should be 100% accurate and get the ability to qm back, sledge is fine and spear should either get a rework or just make the m2 more consistent

The m2 should be able to hit things that aren't directly on the same level as it

And maybe make the spins faster so it can do damage faster

[sand monolith]

Yes

[compact nexus]

The cerberus is still pretty mid lol

Its still forced to be super close ranged and only has 3 bullets

[shell sonnet]

i really want spear m2 to only last as long as you hold the button so you aren't stunlocked for 3 seconds if you accidentally miss click it

any reason why that couldnt be done?
im wondering if it might make combos too easy or allow easy spamming of the first faster spin

[solar bridge]

with one of the fastest reloads in the game? okay I'll happily use an overbuffed cerberus lmao

[shut bane]

I wouldnt call it faster than say the DB or m11 personally

[compact nexus]

The cerberus was definitely not overbuffer lmao and the reload is just OK the buffs really didn't make a difference to the reload speed at all lol

[shut bane]

I think its in its best spot right now tbh, any more and it will be a problem lights specifically throw tantrums over

[compact nexus]

They throw tantrums over anything bro

[shut bane]

[compact nexus]

But yeah cerberus is good in close range but anything past 15ish m it's useless lol, which is how it should be

[shut bane]

lets get some more movement options for medium and then were golden

[compact nexus]

Ceberus players after the mode is suspended structures

[sage citrus]

The sawed off shotgun be destroying healthbars

[tidal shadow]

Give medium a specialization

that can boost teammate's dps by 5%, it should have 3 charges and last about 2 seconds, CD relatively fast, just select a teammate and left click(animation should look like deploying something), there will be a red aura around the buffed teammate

Note:

• This should help solo queuers to make up the teammate who has lack of skills, preventing the frustration they face when their teammate have extreme skill gap between themselves and the solo queuer.
• This will make the game more fast paste, equalize heal beam and defib and all season viable shields
• duos and trios will have better team experience over all, since damage boost is a deployable, they can fight along while help their team.

[tidal shadow]

there's alot micro can happen because of this spec but I fail to transfer my idea into language

[late sequoia]

TBH, Cerb reload should be a flat 2.45s across the board instead of the current reload times which are 2.45 for 1 shot 2.55 for 2 shots and 2.65 for 3 shots.

It's both realistic (competition shooters can reload multi-barrel break action shotguns with one swift movement, all that changes is number and position of the shells) and would give it that little extra nudge it needs to make it more viable against heavies (or other targets, if you outright miss a shot or only have 2 shots left) in it's intended range.

[late sequoia]

It's hilarious that people agree with this, because I'd been saying it for a while but people called me an idiot and said I was wrong.

Now most people agrees it's the best shotgun in the game, and the reason is the same one it's always been: A shotgun that can obliterate heavies faster than the human reaction speed, with the best SG reload speed in the game, given to the fastest class, and a class that can literally turn invisible while having a movement skill AND able to shoot mid-use of that skill at a millisecond's notice.

It's not OP, but it does that thing that ALL the guns should do:
Skirt the line between powerful in it's niche and juuuuust shy of "OP".

[swift cradle]

Cerberus 1 taps lights and mediums and can 3 taps heavies iirc.

It's potentially better than model rn. But it also depends on the scenario. Not just the mag size but also the ranges.

[sage citrus]

It's a cool gun ngl but I like the 1887 a bit more cause the fact that it has more rounds and then there's the skins are nicer.

[late sequoia]

The long reload and the reload delay while it plays the eject and load animation at the start on the 1887 are a massive penalty that make it too penalizing for me.

Fire half your mag with an enemy anywhere near you and you're effectively screwed. (Unless you're fighting bottom 10% smoothbrains.)

[swift cradle]

Pike is strong but not as bad as before since the hipfire accuracy was toned down. I'm sure I will be a popular pick in ranked and high elo.

But nothing wrong with using famas or fcar rn

[sage citrus]

That's why I like shooting all of my shells and during the reload after loading one shell I fire it off real quick to get some damage in before I die

[swift cradle]

That's mostly a positioning issue . The same argument could be used with db as well. Good team play could also lessen the problem.

But yes cerberus is not designed for sustained gunfights

[late sequoia]

FCAR's a pretty trash pick for anything but this narrow band of ranges (about 12-20m).
Closer, and the enemy will have a better weapon (unless they're also running FCAR), further out and the recoil can't be reliably controlled enough to hit anything with shots 4-12 except a heavy standing still.

[solar bridge]

insane take. fcar is top 3 guns on medium rn

[swift cradle]

Fcar is a solid pick across many ranges. But loses to famas and pike fairly easily. But most players at high elo don't have an issue hitting shots from range.

It's one of the most popular guns in ranked

[late sequoia]

Sure, the top guys in comp can inhuman-reaction-time it, but we're talking the majority of the playerbase here, not someone born with aimbot.

[sage citrus]

The Akimbo .50s are the best weapon for Heavy.

Change my mind

[late sequoia]

a HUGE part of the reload time is just waiting for that initial long ass "eject a shot then reload it" animation where you don't reload any ammo.

[sage citrus]

True, that shit is REALLY freaking annoying. Especially when you're getting swarmed in Cashout

[swift cradle]

It's really only 2 seconds. Model is technically 4 times onger to reach full mag after reload.

[late sequoia]

It's pretty bad design, imo. So much so that it's kinda crippling for the gun.

[sage citrus]

Oh hey there's like 4 people rushing me right now.

Lemme just reload real quick oh I gotta wait a couple extra seconds to put a shell back into the gun i didn't shoot.

Oh I'm dead

[late sequoia]

2s on a 3s short 4s long reload gun... YIKES!

67% of the short reload, 50% of the long reload, all spent NOT reloading the gun.

The thing should work like the Halo CE style reload.
Hand comes out with shells, starts immediately popping them in, ready to shoot again.

[swift cradle]

Tbf, if you're not hitting your shots, the reload speed is the least of your problems imo

[late sequoia]

Also, a 4s reload on a shotgun is just excessive.

[sage citrus]

Remember it's a 1887 shotgun.
It's not a pump action it's a lever action.

There's a reason why John browning suggested it'd be better as a pump action

[late sequoia]

It takes 4 shots to kill a heavy with absolute PERFECT aim, but realistically you'll want to stay far enough away thanks to CnS that you'll at LEAST miss enough pellets to need 5.

Reloading is the guns' main concern. Especially with the latest nerf.

[sage citrus]

The 1887 didn't need a nerf it was fine the way it was

[late sequoia]

I wouldn't mind it so much... IF it had more reasonable reload speeds to compensate for it's drastic range nerf on the shotgun who's whole gimmick is range.

Halve the time that the shell eject animation takes, cut 0.5s off short and 1s off long reload, and it would be reasonable.

I swear, they're not actually bothering to balance this stuff, just nerfing it on the say-so of like 2-5% of the population.

[graceful nova]

What happens when a dagger heavy attack hits the front of a contestant? Do they still take the same damage as a regular swipe

[toxic plover]

Melee weapons should outperform shotguns when in melee range

[swift cradle]

Well, since the beginning of the game's lifespan, managing your bullet count with model was important. The dmg is less, but we're not 100% sure that model is bad just yet. But it is worse. Than cerberus, but it's looking that way in some cases. Cerberus just melts people in up close gunfights rn. And afterburn dmg is just annoying.
Just give it some time.

People counted m26 out when it released, but it's more versatile than db. With similar dmg and range as model rn.

[hardy dust]

yeah that too, being able to cancel the m2

im sure it could have a cooldown so you cant spam it, but making it too easy for combos isnt really an issue

[toxic plover]

Apply damage ramp up to all weapons, there's already rangefinder in the game

[daring cairn]

don't know if this is right chat, but does anyone know if they've addressed the matchmaking in ranked at all?

[barren crow]

Im convinced the Quick melee patch was a sneaky meta-shift tool. There was no talks of this happening, it’s been a function in the game for 5 seasons / over a year now. The patch notes didn’t even label it as a balance change, but instead a “Bug fix”. There was no dev note explaining the reasoning, which just is baffling. It was an interesting tech and a rewarding habit to form on several weapons, unfortunately most of which were some of my personal favorites to use. I mained the model since the beta, and the ks-23 since it was released. The model 1887 received a total 22% damage nerf over the past season or so, which is insane. The whole point of the gun is that every shot has incredible weight to it, which is reinforced by it's brutal reload time. I felt that during season 5, the game was possibly in the most balanced state it has been to date. I actually was excited to see less light players in modes like powershift.

Right now, I hardly even want to play the damn game. More and more bugs/glitches keep piling up and the weapons just get nerfed and nerfed into the dirt. I wanna finish the battlepass/sponsorship but I hardly wanna play the grind

[toxic plover]

You know what? Might be right

I DONT wanna play the mf because sledge is being treated like a dog with its nose in piss

[calm cypress]

[barren crow]

paired with the cns nerf, i hardly even wanna play heavy anymore

[toxic plover]

Other classes feel like shit

[barren crow]

im not a fan of tracking/full auto weapons-- i just dont find them as fun. Blowing somebodys head off with a well placed flick of a revolver, or a shotgun will always feel a million times better to me. now, it takes both the ks23 and the model 4 shots to kill someone like a heavy. (if ur model 1887 shots are all good hits, btw.) before you could knock that down to 3 if you punched between each shot. They're taking techs and cool methods of turning the arena into your playground and removing them all, while the game remains a buggy mess and more and more light players swarm casual lobbies

[toxic plover]

I kinda gave up. I only play quick cash with light double barrel invis

[barren crow]

exactly what i think everyone else has been doing over the past couple seasons. As a casual player, lights arent as bad as people make em out to be, imo. For the most part, I do decent in 1v1 scenarios aganst em. If they use a tool that counters me, ambush me, or pick me off when I'm low (yk, what their playstyle is supposed to be) then I'll lose, and be like damn he got me gg. But when 70% of the lobby is made up of them, its sensory overload and hard to actually counterplay a ton of mosquitos buzzing around u, throwing a million frags and gadgets at you. Everyone claps back with "But light has the lowest winrate!! They're barely used in ranked!!!!' But bruh, a lotta people don't even play ranked-- I dont even play WT unless I've got my 3 man just because I need that coordination. I had tons of fun with the chaos of Bank It when they reworked the spawning mechanics and rolled with it for a while, until it just became a knockoff TDM/Kill confirmed light dashfest.

[slim garnet]

If you’re complaining about lights you got bad MMR, change my mind.

[toxic plover]

I got to plat 3. Lights aren't a problem, their balance is. Also double barrel should not exist

[vital plume]

I can confirm that playing light in ranked is way harder because you need way better positioning, a defensive playstile and always be around your team. In quick cash it's more of a "hit n run" strategy. My opinion is, that if they nerf light even more, it becomes unplayable in WT/ranked. Maybe they should introduce better counter gadgets to H/M or remove the Double Barrel from the Light because its.. well.. you know.

[toxic plover]

That's the root of the problem. All the mediums counters are glitch and prox, all of heavys counters are RPG

[vital plume]

Yeah, 1-2 more Gadgets and it's more even. And as a light, glitch mines is your death if you run in alone

[toxic plover]

Lockbolt mine/trap? I'm drooling over it

[vital plume]

mines can be doged with good movement or alternative pathing and Lockbolt in my experience is way harder to play against Lights as against Mediums

If you get hook tho you dead

But this is not "meta" in quick cash. In WT/ranked you need to be way more careful of how you play light because you can die around every corner

[toxic plover]

Nah bro. I'm saying a lockbolt that IS a mine/trap.

[vital plume]

ok but then dont make it as strong as the Lockbolt

[vestal wagon]

Please add a Stim shot like gadget in for Lights. (“Energy Drink” & you can use the drinking animation alr implemented) The initial burst when activated can regen 30-50% health at animation end & slowly regens the remaining health

[toxic plover]

Nah just a single tether

[obsidian nexus]

butterfly knife weapon skin for dagger with cool deploy and inspect animations is surely gonna hit the stores. but when, is the question

[swift cradle]

Being out of position in ranked as a light, 90% of the time results in getting beamed in half a second. Which is both funny and a unique challenge to work on not running around without thinking about what you're doing.

[sage citrus]

Wait they had a marble skin for the sledgehammer?! Aaawwwww I can't get it anymore. That would've been amazing to get for my goth heavy chick!

[vital plume]

yeah. having only 150 hp is a challenge in itself. It's fair to have high dps in return

[vital plume]

you played too much cs2 haha but it's a nice idea

[sage citrus]

Ugh when was that Marble skin for the sledgehammer introduced?

Great now I want to get that skin

[mystic nimbus]

why can't u get?

I don't remember it was limited time

[winter jay]

its in the skin options for my sledge. and i started this season

[sage citrus]

I don't see it in the store anymore.
I think it was around during S3 or S4

[mystic nimbus]

go to equipment then sledge then skins

[sage citrus]

Here let me check

[sand monolith]

Regular shop items never leave the store. Only event/seasonal ones do

[sage citrus]

Damn it is still there

Lol my mistake

[fallow oar]

can you still "Pocket Sand" with lights breach charge? i was never good at it but it was fun

fyi "Pocket Sanding" someone was were you would melee your breach right after throwing to instantly deal massive damage

[shell sonnet]

i think that was nerfed, they need to fully charge now beforehand
imma test that rq

[fallow oar]

thnx bro

[shell sonnet]

nope, needs to charge

no charge + quick melee 2 bars
charged + qm 5

[fallow oar]

thank you so much.

[shell sonnet]

np

[obsidian nexus]

i was actually thinking more towards TF2

[swift cradle]

Im curious how stun is going to be reworked. Having to charge it seems counter intuitive and if it doesn't do anything else as compensation, it's a waste.

Also, in it's current state it's pretty weak already. You can damn near do whatever you want.

You, could allow the opponent to move freely and just lock out abilities, but then it's not a stun gun lol

[coral ledge]

Can heavy please get a boomerang?

It could have a banana skin to go with it. What is there more to have in life then a heavy throwing a banana after you? 🏃‍♂️🍌

[edgy estuary]

M11 is nuts, no wonder everyone uses it, just hipfire to win 😂

[mystic nimbus]

@spice oxide

@restive plover

[mystic nimbus]

your take is so bad that i had to ping the cms to mute u

[lilac fiber]

huh?

[inland ledge]

Day 1 of asking for them to add the combination ak57 uzi radar laser triple barrel double scoped heat seeking shotgun please

[barren tendon]

remove melee weapons and the grenade launcher !!

[fervent haven]

kinda mad they would even patch this out
seems like it would’ve been a nice risk and reward for lights

[vestal wagon]

please add a Stim shot like gadget in for Lights. (“Energy Drink” & you can use the drinking animation alr implemented) The initial burst when activated can regen 30-50% health at animation end & slowly regens the remaining health

[obsidian nexus]

sadly LH1 will forever be fundamentally flawed.

[grave niche]

I just bought the cerebus and I feel like John Wick. Genuinely one of the most satisfying guns to use

[abstract herald]

wtf are my eyes seeing

[flat fern]

they should have made it so secondary atack on spear throws it and dose 100 damage it would add more skill

[hot kraken]

Is it a self use item or would it have an alt fire to give that charge to a teammate?

Regardless, feels more like a medium thing. Choose who to buff inbetween

[nocturne lark]

any recs for the magnum? worth trying? gunna give it a go with demat, goo, jump pad and defibs

[hot kraken]

Similar to what I rock. Yea, pretty good set up

[crisp lintel]

forreal! wish there more throwable weapons like the knives, but one for medium and heavy

[nocturne lark]

hatchets for medium would be sick

[polar umbra]

The defib nerf sucks bro people just camp bodies and I can’t dash away like I used to it makes 0 sense

[crisp lintel]

YESSSS

[shadow onyx]

What the evike

[crisp lintel]

ORR just a boomerang, stupid stuff would be cool too hahah

[crisp lintel]

I also hate it but it does make sense to me at the same time. Im mad but im not mad

[crisp lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-prog-devs-pdmeme-hammer-ban-revan-gif-13710083 A great hammer for heavy!

[smoky jackal]

ah ak spam, love it

game would feel so much better without invis and sonar.

[crisp lintel]

Without both?!

[smoky jackal]

yeah sonar for all classes gone and invis

[crisp lintel]

Why tho?

[smoky jackal]

makes the game play feel like it matters vs just throw out sonar every fight. its been a problem forever

its just catering to very casual playerbase

[elder valve]

I wish the sniper was hitscan again

It really isn't that powerful imo didn't need a nerf

[plain wasp]

Sonar sucks

My ears do the same and give me an extra gadget spot

[elder valve]

Solo que though

A lot of people don't talk and it marks enemies

[plain wasp]

Solution: dont

[inner imp]

Yea solo q’s best friend

[elder valve]

oh wow thank you for teaching me this I'm so dumb I did not realize

[inner imp]

Yea I would but it’s 2:50am and no one has replied to my lfg anyway

[elder valve]

They're being disingenuous; the vast majority of the playerbase is solo queuing

[inner imp]

Yea I know even my 3 man

I whooped my main teammate in a ranked tournament the other day because he was solo queuing and not joining me

[elder valve]

Lol that's crazy

[inner imp]

Yea it was it’s been 2 days and he still hasn’t spoke to me I was spamming him the whole game he knew it was me because we were playing the game a couple hours before

[elder valve]

My 3 stack just isn't as addicted as me

[inner imp]

I have only got hooked the last 3 weeks 😅

But I am level 52 and I think 85 in the battle pass

[glad cliff]

Weapon skin for the v9s and the suppressor is an eclair

[devout musk]

Yo they could add a fire axe to the game and the special attack is that you can throw it

[shadow onyx]

I feel you

[tired radish]

We know riot shield can block, and dual blades can reflect bullets. What if we complete the trifecta and give spear the ability to deflect/redirect projectiles (rpg, grenade, red canister, goo blob, etc) during active frames of the spin secondary. I feel like this would add value to spear to be a little more competitive with sledge's utility.

[torn tide]

Make spear able to throw it giving it a long range attack

[golden hemlock]

I feel like a Supressor for the XP-54(oops!) would be dope ngl :> I like the SIlenced m11 too ngl

[royal thicket]

Riot shield can‘t even block bullets consistently, maybe first fix the 15+ bugs this weapon has before adding something new
Just a thought

[tired radish]

bugs are just extra features

[icy forge]

The in game model doesn't cover you feet, I feel like it's dumb, the purpose of the weapon is to not get hit by bullets. A fix would be imo, the shield covers your feet more and better range or as

[royal thicket]

Yeah, me not seeing anything after going through a gateway is such a nice feature, love it when I have to wait 3 seasons for Embark to fix a oneshot bug

[royal thicket]

Trust me there are A LOT more bugs than just this one, take a look at https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1253147941472960666

[toxic plover]

someone tell me, can you really FEEL the KS buff?

[icy forge]

Thanks, I'll take a look

[upbeat kite]

Dagger nerf :c

[tough prairie]

A buff is a buff. Can two shot lights slightly better

[vale obsidian]

haven't play the games in month
how's the meta

[barren stag]

Can someone explain what actually this change was that they had to buff the ks?
I'm sorry I'm super dumb when it comes to guns and how they actually work

[plain wasp]

Quick melee cancels the animation of rechambering instead of the animation continuing

So you have to do it again if you do it before the animation finished

[cyan bone]

yes, but u still cant cancel pump animation and that fact sucks

[vestal cloak]

Anyone able to test goo gun yet?

Was the hitbox on the goo balls fixed?

[toxic plover]

Nah, they are still absurdly huge

[vestal cloak]

This game's developers are a joke 😭

[toxic plover]

On one hand it's so much easier to goo lock someone in the open, on the other hand my goo blobs are getting caught on litteraly everything

Sometimes I goo someone and the tack doesn't break so it just floats in my way

[spring grotto]

People are mad when model turns them inside out… model gets nerfed… people are still turned inside out because they are unpleasant and whiney

Personally, the animation cancel with the model made counter play against it so much viable, pushed by model dance around and force them to miss, with the animation cancel you could just melee to get back on target and shoot, melee again, shoot….

Making a guns main focus shooting and hitting those shots, seems to be a guns purpose. Giving players facing it zero counter play makes for boring gameplay.

[obsidian nexus]

Light invis smoke thermal is a problem man. like wtf

[ornate juniper]

https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1339226826211594281

[shell sonnet]

ive used goo gun for too long, was it actually difficult for someone just trying it out to goo people that this was needed?

like, im actively struggling to block off holes, doors and windows sometimes now and gotta run around to the other side to see if it hitregged and left a massive gap
dont get me wrong, goo gun is the epitomy of utility and does pretty much everything, but it was intended as a defensive tool
that its really clusmy at this now feels bad

even closing said holes, if theyre like just enough to peek and shoot you through, can be a hassle

i really hope it just takes some time to adjust to it and after that its "fine"

[trim kite]

True that

[normal prairie]

is ks23 better now?

[covert parcel]

i swear they made the individual shots on goo gun larger

[brave solar]

It’s still gonna feel a bit clunky to use because of no melee animation cancel, I’m of the opinion it’s still worse than pre 5.8

Especially because the breakpoint on mediums is 2 shots 2 melees you can’t weave melees in between shots anymore without the pump and it feels horrible

but there’s no doubt it needed the accuracy so eh it’s a toss up, made something feel better but also made another thing feel way worse

[shell sonnet]

must've
no way im that out of tune with my baby after not using it for a few days

[frosty halo]

My one issue with this game is two healers one tank 💀

[crystal fiber]

I wish if there were some perks for fire and gas. That would be nice

[violet jackal]

please give us the ability to remove the scope on the sniper rifle.

[worn smelt]

this

[royal thicket]

This is a so f*cking bad idea I can't even begin to describe it

[sullen bear]

Do any KS 23ers have any thoughts they’d like to share about the buff

[neat bolt]

Winged shoes gadget for heavy? Let them jump higher to reach places since they're so slow

Would work similar to thermal vision where it's just a tablet you use to activate it

[dreamy hedge]

Flak jacket for medium

Ospuze energy drink for light

It could give them like 75 hp and a 7 second speed boost

[tardy briar]

How about a heavy specialization where all damage the heavy takes for 3 seconds is transferred to a damage increase for teammates within 2-3 meters. The power has falloff so the closer you are to the heavy the bigger the bonus. If more than one player is being boosted the damage multiplier is divided. The damage increase lasts to the end of your magazine or 5 seconds for non-reloading weapons.

[tall grove]

Day 1 of asking for holo/red dot sight on the XP54 as the iron sights are not crazy viable and the scope does not make it feel like an smg, more like a short range AR that has huge dmg drop off. Red dot would be a decent middle ground, besides there is already the LH1 which has iron,scope and red dot. I think holo too would be fine then M11 could be the red dot style and XP54 could be the holo sight style weapon

[olive kestrel]

Give back ability to animation cancel manual actions like sniper chambering.

[timber sparrow]

WHY THE fuck did the nerf dagger?

[nocturne tree]

it was way to oppressive

[fluid venture]

Is the Pike trash? Like do I invest in it or cerberus or just model my entire life

[weak kernel]

pike is back to doing 50 or more damage so it's scary again

[fluid venture]

50 on bodyshot? So low TTK unless headshots only?

[finite plover]

The new skin for the defibs has the handle going the wrong way….

[unique gust]

Thank god they did

[olive kestrel]

It seems more consistent now.

[weak kernel]

it's super accurate as long as you're ADS'd and grounded. Medium being able to consistently reach out at extremely long distances like that and still kill quick if they're accurate up close is terrifying

[trim river]

Make a nuke

[sturdy linden]

mmmmm riot shield mmmmmm

https://tenor.com/view/mr-krabs-krabs-spongebob-rabid-foam-mouth-gif-12914290795242109833

[grave edge]

Man fk em dagger players

[trim river]

dagger players suck bro

[meager ginkgo]

Nah make a glock

[trim river]

glock with a switch

[hidden current]

Maybe the throwing knives need to be nerfed a bit, it’s impossible for me to counter them, so maybe lower their throw rate a bit?

[trim river]

make an AA12 with a switch

@silent dawn im doing the same shii u doing bro

[grave edge]

Kinda right tho

[grave edge]

It would be too powerful unless they make it semi auto and 10 or 8 rounds mag

[trim river]

yeah

fr

How about a pistol with infinate ammo so its balaneced for me

[inland ledge]

Day 2 asking for the Combination Ak-57 uzi radar laser triple barrel double scoped heat-seeking shotgun

[glad cliff]

What gun would be the best for a donut type skin

[tough prairie]

Me sometimes

[sturdy linden]

i am genuly tweaking that I WE DONT GET A RIOT SHIELD BUFF OR REWORK

[tough prairie]

It is pretty strong now in the right hands. Pretty weak out in the open or when taking on two working in tandem. I just would like the swings to hit better

Damage is fine. Two hits lights

[sturdy linden]

that is true.

but its completly outplayed by every other melee weapon

[tough prairie]

But it shuts down guns in many situations

[sturdy linden]

it completly shuts down all full auto weapons

ive won about 98 percent of 1v1 gun fights with the riot shield

[tough prairie]

Do you run it with reshaper?

[sturdy linden]

i run 3 classes

medic, movement and objective camper

[tough prairie]

I mostly focus on support. Our "new" Proxy Sensor with Heal Beam.

[sturdy linden]

buff heal beam

[tough prairie]

Reshaper for when I gotta just delete the Sentry Guns and the many mines on the obj. Also barricades in the way.

[sturdy linden]

make the limit higher on heal beam

[tough prairie]

Ever reshaped a barricade that a heavy placed down to quickly recuperate?

[sturdy linden]

i absolutely love the reshaper. sooo underated i never see anyone use it

i always run defib no matter what though

[tough prairie]

Okay, so this is a very specific comparison

Remember that one episode of SpongeBob where DoodleBob erases the door?

[sturdy linden]

i remeber that perfectly.

[tough prairie]

Yeah, reshaping barricades with Heavies behind it has the same energy

[toxic plover]

Good laugh thanks

[sturdy linden]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-pencil-doodlebob-erase-gif-16418586

[tough prairie]

The security of a wall suddenly gone

[sturdy linden]

THEIR IN THE WALLS

[tough prairie]

There are times when I go into their bubbles and reshape the gadget

[sturdy linden]

https://tenor.com/view/hes-in-the-walls-in-the-walls-wall-muppet-panicking-gif-27546618

[inland ledge]

yeah lol, we getting the turdy-pointer with this one

[toxic plover]

You forgot to give it 16× zoom and fire shots

[tough prairie]

Also reshaper is perfect when you are chasing a medium using jump pad. Just delete that into a cactus

[sturdy linden]

hey my name is red now

[tough prairie]

And when using Date Reshaper, remember, POGBRS

[sturdy linden]

https://tenor.com/view/what-did-this-piss-role-just-say-gif-10135858370540744980

[sturdy linden]

people of gaming bring riot shields

amr

[tough prairie]

It means

Pink, orange, green, blue, red, smoke

The barrel order

[sturdy linden]

who tf reshapes barrels

[tough prairie]

Me when I need them in certain situations

[sturdy linden]

nah i save it for things i need to reshape

[toxic plover]

Just use POGGRS

[tough prairie]

You mean POGGRS? Say glitch instead of blue

[toxic plover]

Yes

[tough prairie]

I mean, sure. Glitch is a recent addition to the cycle. It always comes after gas

Reminder you can reshape the Lockbolt. It is way better since that buff. Pretty scary

[toxic plover]

Melee should be stronger than shotguns considering you get value at range with shotguns but not melee

[toxic plover]

Sounds pretty scary. Kinda funny that a buff to almost any gadget = a buff to reshaper

[tough prairie]

I am glad they gave it all these buffs. I remember when it used to be one charge and you had to be very close to the object

Now you can reshape sentry guns quite a distance away

[toxic plover]

I always remember it being 2 charges at least

So get this. I want a gadget/weapon/specialization for heavy that lets you hit an enemy the same way scarlet witch does in marvel rivels, except it has life steal and heals you when you use it

[vapid veldt]

I'm so tired of NEEDING at least 1 medium on your team. Defib still so stupid strong.

[toxic plover]

As a heavy sledge I agree. My HP Regen too fucking slow though

[spring lance]

i just started whats the best gun and class

[toxic plover]

The best loadout is heavy with dash, sledgehammer, defib, stungun, and RPG

[signal badger]

Sticky grenade would be cool.

[rotund imp]

Agreed.

[sand monolith]

As long as support characters exist, having one source of healing will always lead to this. The answer is to introduce lesser healing gadgets to medium and light

Healing is too strong of an ability to have coming from one source

[hardy dust]

Depends on class

[toxic plover]

Heal pad for heavy? Standing on it brings you to full health in under a second but goes on cooldown for 8 seconds

[plush harbor]

this might be the least effort put into balancing post ive ever seen

[sand monolith]

That would definitely be way too much. Probably just an AOE healing station that heals slowly

[plush harbor]

holy shit congrats 👏 thats a new low

[toxic plover]

I spent .2 nanoseconds coming up with numbers ngl@sand monolith

[plush harbor]

.2 nanoseconds might be more than some people in #👂┇game-feedback lets be real

[toxic plover]

Pretty funny you say that 😂😂I can feel it's the least effort I've put into a proposal ever too

[toxic plover]

Yeah people are bitching about sword lung+QM one shotting lights

[toxic plover]

Who all here?

Discord starting to look kinda dead

[compact nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-chat-tudou-mr-potato-cat-gif-22762447

[toxic plover]

Light player with the bad takes?

You look familiar

[compact nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-gif-26178840

[toxic plover]

Heavy heal pad and give Zipline to heavy😈😈

[compact nexus]

Give m11 500 round mags

[toxic plover]

Revert RPG damage nerf to 250 and give a second shot

[compact nexus]

Make defib have 1s cd

[toxic plover]

Make sledgehammer heavy attack 310 damage and winch 20 meters with 3sec CD ON HIT

[compact nexus]

Revert cloak to s1

[toxic plover]

What was S1 cloak like

[compact nexus]

Uhhhhh recloaking took like 0 cost lol

Basically you could have the whole cloak uptime if running cloak db lol its why the strat was so popular, along with db being even better than it is now

[toxic plover]

Normalize sprint speed to be identical across the board 😈

And revert goolock to season 1

[compact nexus]

Make goo gun fully automatic 900 rpm

[obsidian nexus]

glock 17 for medium yesyes

[toxic plover]

Lmao noooo

900rpm goo gun would be so ass

[naive barn]

I hope I'm getting xp from chatting in every channel. If not, I apologize

xp please i'm back

[dawn swan]

Make heavy have cloak

Make heavy have grappling hook

Give hvy lh1

[toxic plover]

Unironicaly, make winch a mini grappling hook

[dawn swan]

Make heavy quick melee do more damage than light since he is a muscular man

[toxic plover]

Unironicaly yes. If light is gonna Regen health faster than medium, and medium regens health faster than heavy, then quick melee should work the same way in reverse

[dawn swan]

So based

[toxic plover]

I am the most based one here

[dawn swan]

Perfect

[stray zenith]

What if they made a ballisong throwing knife skin guys

Am I cooking

[toxic plover]

Like I don't even want light nerfed into the ground in retaliation, I just want them to be decent to fight against and not frustrating while still being strong

[dawn swan]

Personally I just hate seeing more nerfs. Game be fun if every class get buff. If everyone strong then no one op

[toxic plover]

I disagree. I just want melee to outperform shotguns when melee is in touching distance. A medium can 3 shot me faster than my quickest kill combo and it's bullshit

[compact nexus]

You can't really do that without making shotguns really bad or melee super op cause they share the same effective range (shotgun being larger obviously)

Really we only need buffs to riot shield, dual blades, and spear, sword and Sledge are both good assuming you're not on moving platforms or suspended structures or some shit

[cunning kettle]

what we need is a weapon that can go through walls and 1shot all classes (bring back recon senses too)

[shut bane]

Melee can outperform shotguns even but only when synergized well enough with other gadgets or specializations

Lock bolts gonna be a problem soon enough

[unreal mica]

the lock bolt can be outplayed, its not easy

[shut bane]

For sure but in the heat of the moment people would rather throw grenades at their feet from what I see lol

[ashen hawk]

lmao

bring back recon sensess. but fix them to not be overtuned so much

[toxic plover]

maybe a little of both? maybe shotguns do 75% damage within 1m range

that way litterally touching them rewards you as melee. Its a tiny miniscule difference thats a little anoying for shotgun users to get used to, but a whole world of difference to melee

[cunning kettle]

i cant wait to get rewarded for touching them 🥰

[mystic nimbus]

open the finals server:

[cunning kettle]

at least it wasnt what you sent when conagher was around

[mystic nimbus]

bruh u still remember that?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1251577656193847296/1287512563382485002/togif.gif

[cunning kettle]

dms

[copper sinew]

I mean the advantage melee has over shotguns would be that they don't need to reload/don't run out of ammo. For that to be impactful you need to not be able to kill the entire enemy team with one magazine of a shotgun which is already the case for all of them, I think. Maybe the auto-shotgun from heavy can, but honestly that one should be able to do that if you play well with it.

The only shotgun that maybe needs a nerf is the double barrel and probably only on reload speed so you have more time to punish them, if they fuck up. Tho nerfing the damage so that it barely doesn't two shot heavies would be in line with previous Embark philosophy.

[noble glen]

holy smokes thats crazy

[misty axle]

We should be able to buy binoculars as a sight for the Riot Shield.

[digital token]

Ks23 should do 105 dmg please 🗣️❗️ or have maybe 2 more shots in it

[late sequoia]

1887 should reload immediately please, not spend 2s on an animation before starting to add ammo to the tube.

[reef sage]

Shotguns should have no recoil, drum mags and be at full auto.

[late sequoia]

That's literally describing a real world shotgun...
AA12 when?

[reef sage]

Or USAS12

[late sequoia]

The recoil for 12ga slugs has been described as "Like firing a .22 short from an M249 at 300rpm instead of 800+".

[reef sage]

If you want to delete your enemies

[wind folio]

Amerians will use anything but metric😭😭

[reef sage]

What the fuck is a kilometer!? 🔥 🦅 🇺🇸

[late sequoia]

Ah yes, describing recoil with "Exactly 1.2 millipascals per decimicropenis" is so much easier to understand...

[wind folio]

🗿

[reef sage]

Banana peel skin for Explosive Mine when?

[vale obsidian]

and that fart prank toy thingy as a skin for gas mine lmao

[late sequoia]

Whoopie Cushions for gas mines would be hilarious.

[obsidian nexus]

sword is insanely unbalanced and frustrating to go against

[late sequoia]

Yeah, TBH, light's really too mobile for melee not to be brokenly OP outside of excessively high ELO ranks where players can track with insane accuracy the vast majority of players can't compare with.

Sure, if the guy's a total idiot and just runs straight in he'll get mowed down (regardless of weapon), but that's an invalid argument to begin with because that's not how to play light.

In close quarters, it's stupidly powerful against anyone but MAYBE heavy if the heavy has sledge or the flame thrower, and even then it's iffy at best.

[late sequoia]

@earnest sapphire
600 damage isn't little in cases of weapons with FAST reloads, like the FCAR or M11.
But with a 3s reload, it's downright trash.

It's 12 round mag was balanced around dealing 59dmg a shot.
When that got nerfed (for the sole reason of TTK), it didn't get the extra 2-3 rounds it'd need to maintain that balance for damage per mag in a mid/long range weapon and with it's "literally the worst hipfire on any weapon shy of heavy's LMGs and SOME shotguns".

It would either need 2-3 more rounds per mag, OR a 2.49-2.5s (technically, 2.49999999999999999 seconds, but that's semantics at that point) reload to make up for the percentage hit it took.

[noble glen]

YURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[sand monolith]

Dash is the issue

There is a reason why every light weapon that only synergizes with dash is complained about

[heavy jolt]

Give heavy a sniper 🙏

[stone sparrow]

Give heavy a burst weapon and a marksman rifle i don’t care if its only 3 in the mag and reloads slow heavy has one good range option the akimbos I hate using the akimbos

Also would be nice If heavy had a gadget that could be placed down to defend like the dome but you can’t shoot through it neither the enemy team or you and your team only asking for this cause the dome is terrible for defense it’s more of a free damage or a last resort when running away kind of thing it’ll be nice to have one in a triangle shape no one can shoot through

[sand monolith]

Yeah heavy isn’t supposed to have good range

[unique swallow]

Reverse the cerb/m11 and pike

[compact nexus]

Genuinely what's the problem people have with cerberus it's still mid

[sand monolith]

It’s a little too strong definitely not mid. Very fun to use though

Especially considering how strong it is in a meta that doesn’t favor it at all

[compact nexus]

Nah it's still incredibly limited on range on a class that typically wants to stay back for support

[sand monolith]

Yes and then the class gets dove

[compact nexus]

If you're past like 12m you're gonna struggle killing a light lol

[royal thicket]

People don't like unconventional weapons being playable, that's the problem. If the weapon does more than just 'crosshair on enemy, enemy take damage' their brain melts

[sand monolith]

It’s a defensive weapon on a class that’s supposed to be the first target

It’s very strong conceptually and in practice. And that’s without mesh being used in the meta

It doesn’t need a reversion though just a small nerf to either reload speed, spread, or fall off

[compact nexus]

I don't think it needs a nerf at all lmao

The only reason it's really even being used so much atm is because the model is a bit weak rn

[sand monolith]

Meta is completely out of favor for Cerberus and it’s still doing good. That’s not a great sign

Right now it’s fine because nothing it plays well with or against is in the meta

[gaunt orbit]

I'm sorry if I'm somehow off topic here, but can you tell me which weapons and gadgets is better to take for the medium class in cashout mode? It's just... I don't know this mode well and would like to know
":3 👉👈

[shell sonnet]

its compareable to sh1900
kills lights in 1 shot, mediums in 2, has 1 more ammo + fire utility, on a class with more hp
its also kind of similar to old model

[compact nexus]

Yeah it's functioning properly instead of being a wet noodle now, it's still incredibly limited on range, but lacks the instant mobility/stealth of light

It's not a bad weapon anymore but I wouldn't consider it a meta threat

[sand monolith]

It has inherent counterplay unlike old model so that’s good. But it’s just slightly overtuned

[shell sonnet]

i cant write today, help
i should come back later

[gaunt orbit]

I'm sorry if I'm somehow off topic here, but can you tell me which weapons and gadgets is better to take for the medium class in cashout mode? It's just... I don't know this mode well and would like to know
":3 👉👈

[royal thicket]

Why is it a bad sign that an offmeta weapon is used? Sorry I just wanna understand

[sand monolith]

As far as weapons that specialize in something? The pike and Cerberus are at the top rn for medium.

If you want a more generalist weapon? The famas is the best on medium for that.

For gadgets, either the jump pad or the zipline are practically a must pick. Frag grenade is also really good and I’d recommend goo grenade as well for learning the basics of cashout, as goo grenade is applicable in literally every scenario and will teach you a lot

[sand monolith]

Almost everything that the Cerberus plays well with and against is current out of meta, and the Cerberus is still doing well. This is a sign that the weapon is overpowered. If the meta was different, the Cerberus in its current state would likely dominate every match

The Cerberus isn’t off meta, despite everything it plays well with and against being off meta. Which is a bad sign

[mystic nimbus]

bruh

[sand monolith]

gift

[mystic nimbus]

ye idk why did the cms deleted it

[sand monolith]

Greedy and wanted it all to themselves

[mystic nimbus]

💔

[uneven kindle]

I can't believe CMs are so greedy to deprive us of gift cards from this very legit steamuconmmunity link

[stone sparrow]

Akimbos is amazing at range if you can aim they destroy so having another option that’s just slower doesn’t change anything

[restive plover]

Akimbos are also fundamentally broken because of that and need to be hard nerfed.

[stone sparrow]

Yet it requires aim still and in close range doesn’t perform well if again you don’t have good aim

[sand monolith]

Yes they’re very poorly designed and are balanced around having inherent spread

[stone sparrow]

Medium and light have actually range weapons crazy to not give heavy actual range

[sand monolith]

Because he has the most hp

[stone sparrow]

I mainly use the ks so allow me to ads and I’ll be good on having actual range weapons for a season or two😂💜

[sand monolith]

If he has range he will win every trade

[stone sparrow]

They just gotta do what they did to the ks kill it on release slow projectile 3 seconds between shots and small mag

Ks has like 2 seconds between each shot and has a slow projectile with a marksman on heavy do the same thing to it nerf it so it’s only usable for players who can aim and predict movement well

Heavy outta the 3 is the main one that needs better weapons they aren’t horrible just feel eh compared to medium and light which is irritating cause light shouldn’t do as much damage as it does

[spring grotto]

Deagles have good ranged, having two guns with 50+ bullets is good for range also. Should heavy really have the kill potential med and light have, while having the most hp and useful util?

[stone sparrow]

I don’t think heavy should be as deadly I just don’t like switching to m60 for range and do poor damage even lewis the damage is horrible only good option for that longer range is akimbos but those are only op when hitting head shots I’m using two hand cannons why do I have to hit head just give me an actual range weapon I don’t care if it needs to reload every shot and has worse projectile speed than the ks I’ll learn it

[ocean bloom]

dagger was fine why they nerf it xd

[winter jay]

thye kinda struggle upclose. hipfire has some noticable spread

[crimson karma]

[eager wasp]

Real, what a dumb change

[warm canopy]

What do u think the best gun for my light is?

[compact nexus]

Lh1

[spring grotto]

You’re missing the point here… Heavy shouldnt be an all rounder anymore than it is, be for real man.

[stone sparrow]

If medium and light can heavy should be able to as well like they always done just make the things on heavy do less then light and medium I’m not asking for a sniper I’m asking for a marksman rifle I’m not asking for hit scan I’m asking for slow projectile I’m not asking for 2 seconds in between shots I’m asking for 3 I don’t care how bad it is I’m tired of the extremely low damage of m60 and lewis and I’m not a fan of how headshots are the upside to using the akimbos if I’m using akimbos I need range I’m not going for headshots when I don’t even have a sight

[gentle oyster]

I wish they added the 🈵Shang Chi🈵 rings as a skin for the de “Defibrillator”

[stone sparrow]

Sledgehammer shak ks akimbos are the only things on heavy that aren’t completely boring or suck

[winter jay]

real and true. I like the SA but i dont use it all that often. akimbos shak are more fun. mgl has its moments as well

[tall wigeon]

Skull issue tbh

[stone sparrow]

Mgl is fun I have it at level 5 so I played with it a little but it’s not always useful

[tall wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/trollface-troll-face-troll-face-phonk-troll-face-terror-dark-gif-3039755119636354997

[winter jay]

yea its got its highs and lows. the highs are teamwipes in a mag and lows are whiffing everyshot because some guy face checked you

[stone sparrow]

Sa pump after for shots makes me hate it I use the goo gun so it just hurts me inside

[stone sparrow]

Team wipes with mgl for me is the most satisfying

[winter jay]

it keeps me coming back. fun little niche weapon

[stone sparrow]

Also spears lt attack sucks gets you killed more often then not every other melee is far better when it comes to the lt

[winter jay]

so far the only reason ive seen to take the spear is the tech where you launch people with winch

[stone sparrow]

Nice but it’s so bad any other

[toxic plover]

And medium isn't supposed to have good close range but here we are

[toxic plover]

They will keep crying that heavy needs to be kept in check dispite the things that keep medium and light in check being non-existent anymore

[stone sparrow]

Heavy has problems I do agree with that but it’s not in a situation where it needs nerf like lockbolt winch and flame is annoying it’s a problem but it’s not that common or that big of a issue honestly outside of that I can’t think of a single issue heavy has

[hardy dust]

Cuz of dogshit players

Who just complain

[sand monolith]

Yes, both should be fixed

[spring grotto]

CL40 should get a lil buff, maybe have it do a reduced dmg to yourself

[vale adder]

rate my levels\

[dark geode]

dagger being your highest is an instant 10

[barren wave]

the pyro grenade level makes me happy

[violet jasper]

Best revolver skin?

[untold hedge]

what are people hoping to see for weapons in season 6? I would love to see a kriss vector, mp7, or p90 for the light class. It has been a while since we have seen an smg for the light. I love the xp54, wish it did 1 more dmg/rnd (hot take coming from a medium main). For the medium, I would love another bullpup rifle with a slow fire rate (similar to shak). I have always loved the Aug and I think a high damage low fire rate could be cool on the medium. If not that, I would love to see an ACR with an acog, a full auto fast fire rate, low damage AR with an acog would be pretty neat imo. an F2000 could also be this if an ACR doesnt fit the bill. I have no idea what I would want for a heavy weapon, i love the lmgs but would like something that looks better than the lewis gun or m60. A burst/DMR could be cool but I get where good range on heavy becomes a bit of a debate.

[untold hedge]

love the horizon hammer, has such cool animations, but the recoil kick is higher than on the other handgun skins which is odd and almost feels like a pay to lose skin haha

[gaunt orbit]

Thanks you

[boreal laurel]

Any other riot shield lovers around? I used to play it a lot, and I’m getting back into it now and finding it hilariously fun

[whole herald]

Riot shield is amazing or depressing depending on the lobby I get lol. Honestly a good loadout option for casual

[stone sparrow]

It’s amazing wish more people used it

[unique swallow]

Nerf M11, my XP-54 become so dogshit after this meta

[plucky spade]

So, what's the general consensus now on pike?

[unique swallow]

It's already balanced, till they buff PIKE/M11/Cerb

Could you believe that M11 can deal faster kill in range than XP-54 could do

[plucky spade]

Feels like xp-54 is the nerfed fcar of the lights rn. Used to kill so nicely, now with -2 dmg it feels like a peashooter

But I get it, low ttk on such a game removes the tactical aspect

[sand monolith]

xp became dogshit when they nerfed it

[unique swallow]

God bless XP-54 supremacist

[sand monolith]

they just need to buff xp. the m11 is in a perfect state

[noble osprey]

Are defibs too op?

[plucky spade]

No?

[noble osprey]

Explanation

[sand monolith]

no, they arguably need a buff

but they're the only healing gadget in the game, so theyre going to be a big standout from everything else

the best way to nerf defib is to add lesser healing gadgets to light and heavy, while keeping medium as the best source for healing and support

[plucky spade]

Also y'all do realize dead go boom is coming back right? Nobody seems to be bothered with the VD gimmick of throwable nades after death soo...

[plucky spade]

Defibbing now is punishable

[ivory flax]

I always loved claw for its utility. Moving objectives, pulling dead teammates from dangerous places for revive. Recent nerfs made it feel much weaker and less viable but more importantly they limited the utility/creativity. I understand frustration people have with claw but i think there is a way to make it less frustrating but keeping the utility. I suggest increasing its range back to its former glory but limit the player pull distance while keeping objects pull as it was. Something like 14 overall and 7 player pull range. So if you pull player from max range it will only get them half the way close to heavy. So to use it for combos heavy will need to be closer but heavy can use claw to drag objects and bodies from far away. Less frustration against heavy and more utility/creativity for heavies with claw.

[slate vapor]

That would make it unusable for melee weapons, which is the main objective, Instead I suggest making the weapon unable to pull players at a certain distance (12m) and objects at a greater distance (20m)

[sand monolith]

Winch claw just needs a spin up animation and a range buff

[plush harbor]

Needs to have its grab on return removed

[sand monolith]

I wouldn’t even mind that staying if it had a spin up

I just want it to be my fault when I get hit by it

[ivory flax]

It will only make it more frustrating. Players on the receiving end will be pulled from far away and feel like they had an unfair death. They dont care if there was spin up animation or how hard it is for heavy to hit.

[sand monolith]

Not really. It gives them an opportunity to dodge. Players typically don’t stare at a telegraphed attack and then blame themselves for losing to it

[plush harbor]

Have you seen all of Reddit

That’s what they do every day all day

[sand monolith]

Players that I would consider human typically don’t

The reddit amazes me with how much it hates well designed items

Praising every instance of instant burst damage (besides light) and complaining any time something poorly designed or blatantly overpowered gets nerfed

[plain wasp]

Nerf DAGGER!!!!!

It's NOT MY FAULT I SAW A VANISH BOMB THEN RAN AWAY FROM IT!!?!a!!

[fossil cove]

The range nerf to the winchclaw felt super unnecessary, Its a long cooldown specialization with a chance to miss and do nothing. Compare that to the Dash the light has (3 charges, low cooldown, guaranteed value), its pretty weak. I would like to see it be more consistent with how it pulls people (if they go behind a wall currently it stops pulling them) or the range increased back to how it was before it was nerfed.

[lofty wing]

Boo! Don’t try to get dagger nerfed it’s perfect the way it is

[sand monolith]

Dash is not guaranteed value. But both winch and dash are poorly designed and need reworks

The range nerf seemed like a temporary thing because winch was destroying high elo

I’ve been praying for this for like a year now

Every light spec is so terribly designed and it’s the root of so many issues

[fossil cove]

grapple is the only one that can stay, the long cooldown and skill expression in movement makes it balanced IMO, invis and dash however take no skill to use and have such short cooldowns that they are frustrating to play against. Also the dash feels clunky to use because of the weird arc that it sends you at but still feels frustrating to play against, whats up with that?

it feels like the light gets invincibility when they are dashing, which should not be a thing if it is

[toxic plover]

I want winch buffed

[fossil cove]

I second that

[toxic plover]

I want it's range buffed to 20 meters, but only pulls targets 14 meters closer

[tough prairie]

I prefer the glory days of 17 meters. Lowest I am willing to go is 15 meters.

[obsidian nexus]

lh1 needs a complete rework or it needs to be given to medium. light should not have a high damage long range weapon

[supple perch]

Fellas, is the 93r good still

[hardy dust]

Yeah

[supple perch]

Thank God

[hardy dust]

Medium has pike, and its better than lh1 considering the class it's on

[obsidian nexus]

rework the lh1 then give it to medium

[hardy dust]

Why?

[tough prairie]

I mean, why does Medium need another precision semi auto weapon?

[obsidian nexus]

long range weapon thats extremely good on a class that u cant get to, and cant easily kill close range because of their mobility. the gun on the class is fundamentally flawed

[hardy dust]

Not really. At long range you can take cover (or just outgun them with pike). And at close range you can kill them faster unless you keep missing. It would be fundamentally flawed if heavy got ranged weapons (akimbo) since they're best as a close range bruiser class

[supple perch]

lite should not have a long range weapon

I feel like the only reason the balance has improved so much is by making each class more versatile. They all need a spread of close, medium, long range guns and gadgets or else you feel like your pigeonholed into picking a class for one gadget and not it's play style. Lite have snipers cause they mobility and they die fast. Other classes have goo grenades and barriers and stuff they can use to get snipers out of their spot. Gas, RPG, grenades

In particular they die fast to me using the bow

[faint steppe]

Long range weapons are fundamentally flawed in this game. They encourage awfully boring gunfights and griefing across maps. Doesn't really help that regen timers are so long

[supple perch]

Y'all need to try some strats. Snipers are rendered useless by tons of gadgets unless they move around to keep up with you

Throw smoke down and see how many snipers have the thermal goggles. Probably not many

[obsidian nexus]

can u read? sniper is not the problem here

[obsidian nexus]

plus, smoke thermal is a whole other problem

[tough prairie]

What if...

Nail gun

[sand monolith]

It’s not fundamentally flawed but it’s definitely overtuned. The weapon isn’t weak enough in close range for its strengths to be balanced. And the 2x headshot multiplier is very unnecessary

[idle pulsar]

I kinda wish they riot shield could be buffed only a little of movement maybe like a charger slam but there's no slam it just knocks back someone with like 40 damage it would be good against people who steal the cash out 🥺 or at least faster walking speed when you have the sheild up 🥺🥺

[stone sparrow]

I would probably main medium if that happened

Been with heavy for four seasons and I don’t think switching will actually happen but I love defense

[spark igloo]

It's still mid

[dapper depot]

how can I throw a throwable as quickly as possible? I'm on PC, is spamming left click the fastest way?

I am trying to make plays like using demat then throwing pyro / flashbang from demat'd spot

[shut bane]

93r is very good, I prefer it over the xp personally

[vagrant siren]

You know whats funny, ive been thinking about this alot this past week. I wonder if theres an exploit/glitch to throw fast.

[dapper depot]

the best way seems to be using demat, losing los with enemy while switching to throwable, regaining los at the last moment

[compact nexus]

If it's something with a delayed explosion you can throw then demat

Assuming it's a roof and not a wall ofc

[heavy jolt]

Please give heavy a sniper 🙏

[dark pumice]

dear embark, why in the world did you destroy charge and slam. not only did the damage get reduced u gave the heavy way more inertia. Ive gone from hitting it consistently to missing everything. great shadow nerf

[sand monolith]

That is not a real change

[dark pumice]

havent played for a few days and i hop in a TDM, i mostly play H charge and it feels like garbage

[vital stag]

i think its bcs of how heavy is made as a role not TDM itself

unless you have really good aim having kills with H is hard because its a class made to tank for its teammates and TDM is a very selfish gamemode

[compact nexus]

Heavy is awesome in tdm idk what you mean

All the classes are awesome in tdm actually

[chrome wadi]

GUYS! Team deathmatch is Here im so happy

[dark pumice]

bru what

meh whatever, ive played charge and slam since open beta and now it feels like trash

[vital stag]

idk i guess H aint for me

[dark pumice]

i need to hear more H guys, charge and slam movement nerf hits hard i aint touching it now

[compact nexus]

Charge and slam is still solid it's just not a free kill from full hp anymore lol

Winch is still broken, especially with a coordinated team

Goo gun is funny I love goo gun

Mesh is good with a coordinated team as well

[dark pumice]

charge stoped over agro people from getting to close to H and it was a solid way for dealing with melee players

its wasnt broken, useing it against acu good players they dodge it like crazy so u had to predict them.

[normal ice]

It still does both those things. The damage nerf wasn't really that severe. You can still multihit a Medium and kill them by ONLY charging.

[dark pumice]

imo if people think its broken then increase the time it takes to activate the charge

killing everyone is much harder wdym severe

[normal ice]

and yeah, I haven't noticed any change to the physics either tbh

Might have just been a laggy server when you tried it recently

[plain wasp]

CnS shouldn't be for damage at all it should be movement/utility/knockback

The current damage numbers are fine for what it does and the previous killed med melee

[dark pumice]

i play every class and charge was perfect for putting down melee player exept sledge

again if they wanted a nerf towreds destruction y was the length not increased

[plain wasp]

Yeah, heavies weapons are for that, they shouldn't be able to press a button and completely destroy an entire playstyle

They should've increased speed and distance and reduced the damage a bit further

[dark pumice]

ima say when i play riot sheild any heavy without charge and slam or ranged weponds is a free kill straight up

[plain wasp]

Make it better for closing distance and securing kills as well as destruction and it'd be perfect

Instead of the sole reason for the kill

[hallow leaf]

charge deserved the nerf it got

[normal ice]

Well, yes, naturally, a melee weapon is good against players using melee weapons and NOT against players using the old version of CnS which was arguably the best melee weapon in the game in disguise as a specialization. lol

[dark pumice]

well since i said riot when i mean a free kill its not a question, i targeted sheild goo, or winch heavys because there was nothing they could do

[plain wasp]

Flamethrower

[dark pumice]

and it shuts down good sword players

[plain wasp]

Sledge

[dark pumice]

uptop i said any heavy without charge and slam or ranged weponds is a free kill straight up

all other melee or close weponds destroy riot

you will see a lot more close range weponds now that the punisher is garbage

[plain wasp]

Without chargenslam or ranged weapons was vague

I misunderstood what you said

[dark pumice]

oh well i hope this gets reverted, back to terrorizing people with riot and pike

[tawny cape]

I write about dagger as a dagger player. Video and ss to show server lag. You can see particles from hitting him in back but not counts.
Problem with dagger is inconsistency. Even if you main dagger or have 500 hours playing it you can mess up dash back stabs. Because it is hard to do if the enemy knows there is a dagger player and stay together to shot you down before you can even dash behind them OR game just says nope you didn't hit it because server says the guy you go for dash back stab turn his head. Dagger nerf was a wired one because i never heard nerf dagger from a player knows what to do against it. What to do to ct:
Lights can stay inviz and shot you down before you can even react. Dash away. Hook away. Stun. Basically dagger vs light with other weapons than sword counters it.
Med jump pad makes it really hard to back stab. Turret is annoying because you can't do anything to it other than goo or glitch nade before going in. A good medium with demat can make dagger unplayable. Mines. Glitch mine makes your combo completely none viable. They don't have the best guns to deal with dagger (other than pike and cerberus right know) but has best gadgets to play against.
Heavy has claw which is the second best counter to dagger. Charge and goo can be usefull against it too. Mines and anti gravity is annoying to play against but lockbolt is the best gadget heavy has to counter dagger. Gun side sa1216 is probably best gun for challenging a dagger head to head in my opinion. Other than that heavy guns are annoying but heavy players are slow so you can kill them if they miss there options.

• any sonar or sensor makes it harder to play it.
  So basically ever class in the game has more than one way to stop a dagger. Playing carefully counters it thats why there are not many diamond + ranked grinder with dagger. Server lag makes the dagger feel off and because of it you can miss or hit stupid backstabs. Should have fixed the lag before nerfing it in my opinion.

[hardy dust]

Dagger has never been an issue but really bad players just complain about it. It should get a large buff.

[dusk carbon]

thats what a dagger player would say

[small bramble]

Is the AK still viable in ranked?

[pliant depot]

the amount of clips i have of backstabs not registering or getting hitmarkers. the 150 nerf was just uneeded. as you said, every class can and will counter dagger. this change lowers the daggers pick rate and win rate even more due to how frustrating it is to use at times.
i believe they will change the angle to 170, sadly i dont think they will go back to 180.

also me and my buddy (in cash out) will play heavy sledge wench. in my opinion, its the best way to deal with them as heavy. makes approaching you very difficult

https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/jHg9ja12GYWssTDxI?invite=cr-MSxtdk8sMzAyOTA2NDEzLA

[hardy dust]

That's iust what someone who's not bad at the game would say.

[toxic plover]

I think people are neglecting the fact that if servers were not ass, then the dagger nerf is reasonable and balanced. This is speculative though

[pliant depot]

that would be the case, however even hitting the back on the rib cage doesnt reward a backstab when that is literally the backside. (video from fikolas)

[toxic plover]

I guess the only real way to make backstabs work is to apply it to the actual model hitbox back thrn

[pliant depot]

that would be a good replacement other than reverting the change honestly

[shadow onyx]

yeah I don't trust these servers anymore when I saw a hammer guy one tap me while facing the complete opposite direction. If feels like the player model in game doesn't always line up with what they are actually doing.

[toxic plover]

You can spin with sledge heavy attack to hit people you initially miss. Pretty hard to do though

[pliant depot]

net code = spagetti code

[peak monolith]

While I do feel like dagger's inconsistency is annoying, I also feel like 1.) It's much more consistent with Aim Assist off, you won't be drifting to center of mass and can target the back easily. 2.) It's kind of worth it to be kind of inconsistent. It really plays into the risk-reward, as hitting the backstab means an easy team-fight since they had a teammate drop like MJ in a clocktower, while missing it equals guaranteed death or at least a much more fair fight. Conclusion.) Playing dagger makes you a gamble, it's about playing the right position to make it pay off, hiding corners and playing for ambush, not just running and hoping you can flick for the back. It's extremely different from sword in that regard and I, personally, enjoy that.

But also my opinion is whatever I'm still fairly new

[pliant depot]

that is a good take, however the inconsistency isnt on the players its the servers. there is a subreddit dedicated to showing how bad the servers are with dagger. you cant even fall off a building and backstab without the server shitting itself. (example: https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/jHg9ja12GYWssTDxI?invite=cr-MSxtdk8sMzAyOTA2NDEzLA

[crisp ore]

is sa1216 make sens to you?

[peak monolith]

Oh wut I've never had a hit just not register before I thought you meant like whiffing

Yeah that's egregious server issue.

[toxic plover]

Feels really bad when you clearly take a lights head off with sledge, but then they dash back and beam you cause your hit didn't regester

[late sequoia]

LH1 is just a MASSIVELY better Pike.
Better fire rate, better recoil, better reload, better head multiplier, better mag size, better hipfire, better optics options.

The ONLY thing the pike has now is that it's able to 3-shot lights... that's it.

[peak monolith]

I wish goo canisters made the same amount of goo as goo grenades, if not more.

My reasoning being that canisters are a rarity while grenades are a commodity. A goo can should have big value just like all the other canisters, basically being replacements for grenades if not even better than most grenades while goo cans almost always feel underwhelming.

Like literally grenades can seal literally every passage that can generally be defined as a "hallway" while canisters can barely fill double doors.

If their detonation when shot was more chaotic, being able to be used like a trap and just exploding with goo to trap an enemy I could see the value but even smashing goo cans together in the firing range is mostly underwhelming.

Something that would radical to see would be something like a can dispenser that consistently spawned in certain locations and constantly output cans. This would be huge strat changers since you'd have a massive surplus of a certain mechanic, (fire cans, gas, goo, smoke, BOMBS BOMBS HOLY SNS BOMBS) and this would be SO MUCH FUN in a casual setting.

Wether a gameshow event or a map-based thing or even a modifier like moving platforms or raised buildings that would be epic to see.

[quartz juniper]

So the ks-23 got buffed and it doesnt feel like it at all, the bullet dispersion doesnt seem better at all

[sacred scroll]

Only when aimed

Wish it didn't have any dispersion aiming or not, it's already a projectile

[toxic plover]

Buff melee, all melee.
If light regens health sooner and faster than heavy then make light 30dmg QM and heavy 50dmg QM.
Remove third spear spin, make spin input based per spin.
Buff winch to 20 meters but only pulls targets 14 meters closer.
Nerf frag damage from 150->125
Buff mesh shield from 750->1000
Make winch not go through mesh.
Bring back mesh shield quick melee.

[sacred scroll]

Imo winch should pull heavy towards the target rather than target to heavy

[boreal laurel]

Just saw a teammate go 23 and 3 with Cerberus…made me a bit envious NGL 😄

[late sequoia]

Target to heavy if it's a light/medium, heavy to target if it's another heavy.

[late sequoia]

The flame damage is too inconsistent and weak imo.

With how little flame damage it applies, just make it deal the damage all at once and don't bother with flame damage.

Alternatively, give it like 2.5s of flame damage (20/sec, for 50 damage total) per shot (whether you only land a couple pellets or the whole shot).

Exceptionally powerful, but the delay is long enough that it can get you killed if you're relying on it.
(Also, smoke is a hard nerf to the entire flame aspect, so it's not a guaranteed amount of damage, it's just a bonus aspect.)

[late sequoia]

TDM feels a bit off.
Revives are entirely moot (only paddling would be worth it, BUT it revives at half health so it's pretty much feeding a loss to enemies so it's actively detrimental to use them).
The kill count per match feels too low (45 instead of 30 per would be nice).
Certain weapons feel like they are worthless in TDM due to the ranges (mostly medium options due to the snails pace slow TTKs).

[unkempt cypress]

yea dagger 100% did not deserve the nerf. It was already pretty much useless against lights as they have to be completely oblivous for it to be of any use. It was actually pretty good against the other classes but because it had a really high skill floor, cieling, and had massive amounts of just strategic counterplay, not even counting actual gadget/spec countering, I think it was totally fine.

[shut bane]

Tdm will be improved as it’s made permanent im sure, removing revive tokens is a good idea

I’d also like it if heavies time before regenerating health wasn’t so abysmally long lol

[compact nexus]

Tdm is pretty great but yeah revives should either be removed entirely or they should take $100 away from the enemy team (basically refunding the kill)

[late sequoia]

TDM feels kinda bad with how much clutter there is, normally we have a few set locations people are forced to navigate to through the clutter, and the clutter is just there to make ranged easy kills harder.

In TDM, the map clutter just feels like it gets in the way of the fight.

[compact nexus]

I haven't had clutter get in the way yet but I've also only played a handful of rounds so

But even then I was using goo gun on stadium which is probably like the worst it would get

[late sequoia]

Do you play medium a lot?
It's not too bad for heavy and light, as they have some GREAT cqc weapons that aren't shotguns, but medium doesn't have a single worthwhile non-shotgun CQC weapon.

[lyric nymph]

What is the best light weapon I just got into the game

[late sequoia]

Flamethrower, SHAK, sledge, M11, V9S, sword.
Everyone but medium has a decent selection.

[lyric nymph]

K thank you

[late sequoia]

The first 3 are on heavy, not light.

For a beginner, I recommend M11

[lyric nymph]

I know I’m coming from cod so I wanted some tips on the game

[toxic plover]

Tether beam for medium. Instead of healing teammates, it wraps around enemies and slows them by 40% and prevents HP Regen

[primal timber]

@sleek ember @toxic plover @lyric nymph @late sequoia @primal timber @shut bane @boreal laurel @sacred scroll

lucky 8

[late sequoia]

?

[compact nexus]

Yeah dual blades have been my main weapon throughout the season lol

Other than those Ive played cerb somewhat consistently through the season, played a bit with buffed pike, and sometimes take out the riot shield as well

I did actually play medium in tdm earlier today and used fcar, ak, and famas

[misty axle]

God is angry, and God is a Heavy.

[tawny mural]

Why Melee weapons are so bad? apart from light

[spring grotto]

CL40 needs a slightly larger projectile and a self dmg nerf, then its not op it needs a nerf but it just enough to make it an actual pick in games…

[sand monolith]

They’re mostly gimmick weapons. They shouldn’t really be on par with guns

[fading citrus]

A weird new specialization for medium would be a canister launcher basically it could hold 6 different canisters and use them at a different time

[boreal laurel]

Why…?

[frail prism]

Bring back nade grappling 😔😔

[tawny cape]

I am not saying dagger is bad now but fixing things must be prioritized than nerfing. I don't think embark talked to any dagger player before the nerf. If they talked most would have said that server lag or what ever it is a problem for back stabs. Because of the nerf it feels like it happens more.

[faint steppe]

FAMAS nerf kinda sucks because we'll never see the FCAR buffed considering they are pretty much equal now. Maybe a slight recoil reduction but that won't really fix how awful its damage + fire rate feels

[stone sparrow]

Medium has the famas , riot shield , 3 barrel and pike medium has good weapons you probably just find medium boring or just not as cool as the other two options

[spring grotto]

Deagles, Lewis, Sledge, Shak, SA…. Ak, Fcar, Famas,Pike, revolver, model, cerb… 93r, m11, matter, db, lh1, xp, v9s, sword…. Every class has guns that are food fuck is u on ab man

[royal thicket]

Bro riot shield is absolute ass and I'm allowed to say that cause I've been maining this weapon since season 2😂
Sorry but riot shield just has way to many bugs to be viable for the majority of players. You don't have the toolkit to support it, you don't have a spec that helps you, you have a goo nade, that's it
Also he's right medium hasn't got a new gadget since data and no new specs as well. (I know light never got a new spec but come on what else do you want?)

[tidal kraken]

Medium build is getting kinda boring tbh

[spring grotto]

Fr, try to mix it up and get slapped, no sorry slammed up against a wall and well yk by embark while they whisper into ur ear telling you to use the meta weapons.

[torn radish]

I also like the riot shield but i think it is to hard to play with but that‘s because I have a skill issue 😅

I hope it gets a buff or something

[royal thicket]

No, you don't there are 20+ bugs RIGHT NOW that break the riot shield and that has nothing to do with a skill issue. It doesn't need a buff, it needs its gamebreaking bugs fixed, that's it

[sand monolith]

Famas, pike, Cerberus

Also shak and V9S are the only actually good weapons you listed. I’m so confused

[dusky gyro]

What uses do you guys have for the goo gun?

[sand monolith]

Stopping steals, locking players in place, bunkering, controlling what path players take

[dusky gyro]

oh stopping steals thats smart

[keen turtle]

prowling around the cashout and long range breaking steals is comical

[stone sparrow]

Movement
by helping you get up a building to another side down the side of buildings or off the map to keep the vault away when times almost up
Defense
Blocking widows doors vents and a bit of the wall to make demat not a great 3 blocks in the shape of a triangle if you have no cover and need something quick covering the ps in goo in the shape of a shell
Offense
Covering the field in goo then releasing a pyro to create hell
Or in a building using c4 and pyro mine so when they come in they die from explosion or the flames depending on what floor or where the pyros are placed
Also hitting people with goo to prevent them from escaping
Also
You can shoot the mines with goo so they won’t go off turrets too if you see a aps dump goo then reload so your gun stays full just in case if you see proximity sensor goo it so it doesn’t work

[late sequoia]

Significantly faster reload speed would really help fix a lot of its downfalls.

[late sequoia]

I was specifically talking about guns that perform a certain niche which light and heavy have filled, but medium doesn't have a single one of.

There isn't a SINGLE medium full auto weapon with good hipfire and extremely fast body shot TTKs (SHAK/M11/etc.) at ranges 0-20m.

AKM fires too slowly for it's damage model to even come CLOSE to matching, FCAR's recoil makes it's hipfire pretty bad for it's mag size so it's more limited to 10-20m (and it's TTKs really aren't even remotely as good unless you compare FCAR head shots to M11/SHAK body shots), and FAMAS is only good with it's ADS thanks to head shots.

It has no "smg-esque" weapons to fill that niche, which leaves a pretty significant hole in it's arsenal.

[stone sparrow]

Akm hip fire is good plus the famas doesn’t have bad hip fire either both weapons aren’t bad not amazing sure but they ain’t bad

[late sequoia]

True, but they lack the fast TTKs and GOOD hipfire combined.

They're not bad weapons at what they do, they just don't fill that gap in the medium's arsenal.

They aren't SMGs, which is what medium has needed for a long time now.

[stone sparrow]

You find them boring your problem is you don’t like them you should move to other weapons like the pike or revolver if you wanna stay on medium

[late sequoia]

FAMAS is my favorite weapon for general use, but when you need an SMG, all medium's got are shotgun half-measures instead.

[stone sparrow]

The problem is smgs are suppose to be light weapons you want to play medium with the weapons of another contestant

[late sequoia]

SHAK is an SMG in all but name. The V9S is another "it fills the role of an SMG, despite not even being full auto".
That argument is invalid.

[stone sparrow]

The thing is they aren’t

[late sequoia]

Then give me a medium weapon that gets the same stats but falls under the same ""isn't an smg"" technicality.

[stone sparrow]

Shak isn’t a smg

[late sequoia]

Yet it does all the things an SMG does...

[stone sparrow]

If smg is what you want so badly just play light

[stone sparrow]

What shoot?

[late sequoia]

VERY fast TTKs, forgiving on misses, full/semi auto (depending on damage model/recoil/fire rate) good hipfire, decently fast reload, quick damage falloff at range.

[stone sparrow]

Join a call with me and we can talk it there or text me personally no real reason to figure it out here

[late sequoia]

I can't talk atm.

[stone sparrow]

Im not tryna say your feelings are stupid I understand how you feel but understand that medium getting a smg can be to much

Not trying to have another weapon come out be to strong just for it to get nerfed and forgotten about the ks is finally getting looked at again after its murder in season 2

Pike was killed and forgotten for a bit

[restive plover]

Did they buff or nerf any guns recently?