💣┇weapons-gadgets

[unborn frigate]

1 that was more than 14m
2 the guy winched right as the cooldown ended

when was this clipped? i know they had nerfed it to 12m a while ago

[toxic plover]

It took 5hp off it might have actually been 14m cause on release it was 16m but 20 damage

[unborn frigate]

when it realesed in season 3 (3.0.0) it was 17m and 15dmg then got nerfed the next update to 5 dmg (3.1.0)

[toxic plover]

My apologies

[unborn frigate]

its alright

i had to scroll through patch-notes to find season 3 though

[toxic plover]

I'd love a 17m winch. Tbh that's hella travel time and pretty likely to miss against someone competent(not that other guy)

[unborn frigate]

it would actually be pretty balanced if they just made the actual throw slightly slower and maybe even make it a projectile

so gravity affects it

[toxic plover]

It's already a projectile

[unborn frigate]

a heavy projectile that gets affected by gravity *more than it already does*

[toxic plover]

Even if I mastered it, we'd still have little lights bitch about it being OP while their stungun is still hitscan. Would be cool if in the perfect scenario(1m outside of stungun range) I can not get counter picked if I'm lucky

Servers are not on my side so they dash away before the QM comes out, stuns me, beams me

[cunning kettle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1335950308119154708/ezgif-1436138b2da84.gif

[toxic plover]

I'd kill for a lockbolt motion sensor type gadget. 2 charges. Really tight area of effect, single target, piss poor health

[toxic plover]

So true.

[keen raven]

"And the mystical heavy floating up with it" (they will die because they are useing sledgehammer and are stuck)

[toxic plover]

I'm realizing now I misread your message. And my response is "oh well, guess it's over there now"

[keen raven]

You can't suplex a cashou...

https://tenor.com/view/german-suplex-wrecker-star-wars-the-bad-batch-suplex-from-the-back-wresting-move-gif-27002906

[toxic plover]

Imagine if it was charge and tackle instead of slam

[keen raven]

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-absolute-cinema-gif-415211565083999567

[toxic plover]

I can already imagine the booty screwing memes of heavys on lights

[keen raven]

Lets play grab the hampster

[toxic plover]

Whoah step heavy

[keen raven]

https://tenor.com/view/potemkin-buster-elphelt-gif-6845550368732548339

[toxic plover]

My friend tried to get me into guilty gear..I think I prefer my ass whooping on for honor instead

[keen raven]

Conq main foreva

[toxic plover]

I main Warden. When I'm getting my ass whooped I switch to hito

[keen raven]

But I couldent do it anymore

[keen raven]

YOU BETTA BE IN THE KNIGHT FACTION

[toxic plover]

Vikings because they win and I like free drip from the crates when they win 🙄🙄

I would do knight faction otherwise though

[keen raven]

https://tenor.com/view/death-spongebob-smile-rainbow-gif-15431174

[tranquil torrent]

did the cl-40 changes make it harder to land directs on account of the projectile being technically smaller

[toxic plover]

Technically yes

[tranquil torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-ishowspeed-gif-1290931606264393136

[tranquil torrent]

why my gifs no work man tf

[jolly raven]

guys I just figure out cns nerfed medium and heavy so we can get into reality more!

[toxic plover]

Gonna make me go from pro CNS to anti

[jolly raven]

That's cns's purpose lol

[toxic plover]

Good thing I chose viaa sponsorship too

[limber shell]

What are good gadets to run with cerberous?

[jolly raven]

Mine and goo? it's a low range weapon so they can help you escape

[versed lava]

zips and jumps can be good, basically helps close the distance

[bronze cedar]

How would we rank heavy specializations after charge & winch nerfs

[harsh lion]

Overall the charge is still usefull even tho it does less damage
The winch claw nerf hit my muscle memory hard
The lockbolt change is a blessing in some case but a blessing in disguise in others.
People are now more prone to use its slinging mechanic against you than before and you cannot kill people using pads to get to Platforms anymore (the triangle one that allow you to jump over large gap) because it slings them back instead of stopping them mid air

[bronze cedar]

I meant like actual order of overall usefulness
Winch still usable for what it’s intended for, but the damage nerf on charge and slam is so awful that you’re better off just using main weapon for higher DPS. Charge is a liability in a 1v1 fight if you’re not right next to the opponent (necessary to land all hits) and heavy struggles to have this occur anyway.
Useful for disruption and destruction but kinda tragic damage.

My opinion is not worth very much (low rank under 350 hours) but:

With team coordination:

1. Mesh
2. Winch
3. Charge / Goo

Without team coordination:

1. Winch
2. Goo / Charge
3. Mesh

[naive lintel]

... Stun gun is projectile. But since the range nerf it really doesn't matter. It may as well be hitscan. The projectile nerf was one of the first ways they tried to make an effective range for the gadget.

[placid needle]

What’s the best medium primary post famas nerf.

[clever lava]

did they change anything about the V9S?

[fickle charm]

goo numba wan

[clever lava]

!rank

[hearty delta]

Not in these notes but it's still worse than it was pre-RoF nerf

[spring grotto]

Would it have been better to just give the pike a red dot? Rather than making roof camping new meta?

[pliant steppe]

I think charge and slam is headed in the direction of the RPG where it seems like they can’t decide if they want it to be utility/destruction or combat; so, it gets nerfed/stuck being meh at both.

I’d like for them to reduce damage even more, but increase speed, maneuverability, destruction, and knock back effect, add a repelling shockwave to the slam, and let it knock a cashout station around. Just commit to making it utility/destruction.

[stuck dirge]

what are the conditions for the lens flares appearing to enemies when you're ADSing at them? does it depend on the type of scope you're using (i.e., does it not show if you use iron sights on LH1?)... or is it purely based on the weapon itself, regardless of scope equipped?

would test this myself but i cant see what my enemies see.....

[toxic plover]

Let's go

[toxic plover]

So true

[ashen hawk]

You can already find that meta in powershift matches with lgihts

[toxic plover]

Buff sledgehammer damage from 115 to 125. If the Cerberus on medium and Sh1000 on light can two shot a medium then so should sledgehammer. Also buff winch to 14m or reduce cooldown

[clever lava]

Whats RoF

[clever lava]

Sledge doesnt 2 hit medium?💀

[spring grotto]

Woah ps so cool man

[toxic plover]

Either have to heavy attack into light attack or two light attacks into quick melee. Sledge should be able to two light attack kill a medium

[clever lava]

Yea i guess, can u kill a light with light attack and quick melee?

[toxic plover]

Yes

[clever lava]

Alright then yea

[hearty delta]

@clever lava RoF is Rate of Fire. Way back when it got an optic, soon after it lost a good bit of its rate of fire and got a slight damage buff but overall the TTK is still worse

[clever lava]

2 light attacks should in my opinion kill a medium

[toxic plover]

Awsome. You'd be surprised how often I get two light attack in and the QM wiffs

[toxic plover]

But also means heavys can be killed with three light attacks/one heavy one light quick melee(present remains the same) instead of three light attacks and a QM. Tbf...SA still deletes a heavy even faster than you could get the quickest melee combo out lol

[royal thicket]

!rank

[amber cloak]

It's the type of scope. I believe ACOG and the sniper has glint, red dot and irons do not

[brave solar]

Famas still shreds, pike is very good now, and the cerb may be pretty good but I haven’t seen it nearly as much as pike

[brave solar]

The acog on the famas doesn’t have a sniper glint… does the lh1? I actually don’t know I haven’t used the lh1 with anything other than the red dot in so long

[amber cloak]

Does it not? If that's the case, Im pretty sure lh1 has glint so it might be gun by gun

[hushed estuary]

Is the scar good?

[brave solar]

Yeah I am pretty sure it does too, wierd that it isn’t consistent

[brave solar]

Scar is good if you can control the recoil well, otherwise just run the famas

[stuck dirge]

ah right, thats good to know, thanks 😁

[brave solar]

Alright I want to hear some opinions. I’ve seen two sides of the model 1887 coin. Some people think the nerf was unwarranted and other think it was very needed. did you guys think the model deserved the nerf?

[shut bane]

Im indifferent to it really, the damage change only really affected the heavy ttk which I really don’t mind as the model really shouldn’t have been an easy delete for heavies at close range, it is generally a nerf however

The damage dropoff change also made it a little safer to use at longer ranges so it’s kind of the safe pick for mediums

[brave solar]

I see a lot of players saying they are removing some skill expression from the game but call me crazy: I think the model is a pretty easy gun to use? Like you said it’s got good range, it’s just point and click no tracking involved, there’s an argument to be made about ammo management maybe.

maybe they’re just talking about the animation cancel actually

[shut bane]

yes model is generally easy to use and has little to no learning curve to it similar to the AKM in that its forgiving in ammo count and has a consistent recoil pattern

animation cancelling only affects you if you decided to melee not knowing if youd finish whoever you were fighting with it, it still works to kill players you left really low. I think snipers were the only ones badly affected by it

if they wanted to express skill they ought to move onto cerberus and get their movement up lol

[hushed estuary]

Ok

[graceful nova]

Black mirror gadget: a transparent hacked barricade that hides contestants from each other.

If you look through the black mirror from either side, you can see the world but no contestants in that frame.

It is a solid object with 1 HP, so any source of damage will break it instantly

Best used in door ways and windows.

[graceful nova]

The dead go demat event: dead contestants apply demat effect on the surface they touched. The demat lasts until the event is over

[near scroll]

I've noticed the goo gun's blobs' projectile size has been increased this patch making it way more difficult to be precise with. I assume this was unintended since there are no mentions of such a change in the patch notes. So if this could be reverted it would be lovely!

[compact nexus]

Unless I'm mistaken is only does 88 damage max now which is honestly really low and I don't think the damage should've been touched in the first place

I haven't been able to test it in game but on paper it honestly just sounds horrible

Oh they apparently buffed the pellets to 9 at one point so it does 99, not as bad as I thought it was oopsie

[plain wasp]

The only stk that changed is for heavy

[compact nexus]

You can't qm after a meat shot to one shot a light anymore either

[brave solar]

I don’t actually know the stats so I’m just gonna take your word for it: I am a ks23 enjoyer and seeing it come in line with the ks makes me sooo happy. Before it felt like there was no reason to use the ks23 when I could just model. It did more damage, you are way more accurate while moving around, range was better, and a faster reload! Since season 4 the ks23 reload has been buffed and now that the model is down to 99, it feels like both guns have a good chance against each other! Eg: the model gets more mobility while shooting and the heavy gets the extra health. Small pov and wierd comparing the guns but I love the change I think it’s in a great spot now very balanced ESPECIALLY with the qm change

sorry kind of a novel (also never said it but the ks23 does 100 per shot and 6 rounds so it’s cool to compare them)

[plain wasp]

And that was annoying and unfun to die instantly to when you walk around a corner

[compact nexus]

Don't remind me I had to deal with that shit all through season 3

[compact nexus]

Personally think the qm change was horrible and should be reverted

[plain wasp]

I think it should be reverted specifically for non-shotguns

[brave solar]

I agree 100% that getting rid of techs and animation cancels is lame, I misread your first message I for some reason thought the qm change made it so you couldn’t 1 shot but it was the damage nerf

[brave solar]

you think shotguns shouldn’t be able to animation cancel?

[plain wasp]

I dislike shotguns in general

[brave solar]

Maybe a pinch of bias then lol

[compact nexus]

Nah it's damage based
Model used to be able to one shot lights by quick meleeing directly after a full damage shot

The qm change is horrible cause it ruins the fluidity of a lot of weapons lol

[winter jay]

i dont like snipers but if we're gonna chnage it back do it for all of them

[brave solar]

Including my beloved ks23, yeah that change is terrible no doubt

[plain wasp]

I am not biased in the slightest, I just think all shotgun users should be purged from this game

[brave solar]

lmao

[pearl wyvern]

You know what they should do.They should buy the data reshaper. And make what is typically the aim button (since it doesnt have a bind for it rn) a remote trigger so you can can activate mines remotely that belong to the other team or make barrels explode from a distance while still being able to reshape stuff.

[sturdy linden]

I WANT A SWORD AND SHIELD FOR EITHER THE MEDUIM OR HEAVY THAT CAN BLOCK/PARRY MELEE ATTACKS

[lyric shuttle]

can we nerf lockbolt please? like make it last half a second, thatll provide enough annoyance

[toxic plover]

Bro wants a unused useless gadget to be useless again

[lyric shuttle]

its not unused, its annoying

[toxic plover]

It's not unused anymore no but before you could safely ignore it

Lol maybe, imma enjoy it while I can

Because of winch nerf

Istg they can nerf heavy all they want so long as they don't touch sledge I'll just adapt

[simple glacier]

Hi I'm new

[shell sonnet]

hello

[swift cradle]

So the animation cancel change removed melee canceling when shooting?

Sounds like it would make gunfights a lot more sluggish up close..

[hardy dust]

It does

[lyric shuttle]

its annoying

[simple glacier]

Hi

[shell sonnet]

what brings you here?
looking for tips? playing with others? feedback?

[simple glacier]

Just too make friends

I'm good with combat

I'm a light player

[shadow onyx]

What is the meta now after the new update idk what to use

[shell sonnet]

hope you find what youre looking for
if youre ever in need of advice, dont be afraid to ask, there are plenty of people with a trick up their sleeve happy to share

[compact nexus]

Reject meta embrace fun

[shadow onyx]

you are right dawg but I gotta play ranked or wt or whats it called

[shell sonnet]

well, statistically, heavy wins most often
last thing i heard is that shak is viable at higher level, and it didnt get touched since iirc
but lewis and (i think?) akimbo's are also up there

[simple glacier]

Thank you

[hardy dust]

Pike

[fiery grail]

since when is the bow so good

[obsidian nexus]

Im kinda sad that my favorite gun, the cerberus, got overbuffed. Im sure its gonna run rampant in WT soon.

[fiery grail]

yeah and after that it'll probs get nerfed

[plain wasp]

It just needs the damage buff reverted and a buff to the fire

[crisp ore]

why sh1216 had no nerf? that shit been broken for ages they nerf model and no nerf for sh1216 this is bullshit

everyone would agree that sa1216 is too powerfull is not somthing u can deal with. u cant fight sa1216 nomatter what ur using. its too powerfull for a high rate shotgun

[dapper mountain]

slight movement boost to melee users, nothing extreme but it would be fun

[solar bridge]

I feel the same way with the pike. Love the gun but there were better approaches

[vale gorge]

What

[keen raven]

yeah im with this guy. what?

[sage citrus]

I like playing as Heavy and Medium

I'm just trying to unlock all the weapons

Mostly just the dual desert eagles and MGL32
now should I unlock the MGL32 or the dual desert eagles first. 🤔 🤔 🤔

[gloomy raft]

MGL32 takes a lot of finesse to even begin to make it viable, and lots of people will get mad at you for even running it. I would recommend you go for deagles first.

When you do get to the point where you can make MGL work though, it feels amazing, and the results are hilarious.

[sage citrus]

What bothers me is that the Deagles cost 1,600 VR but the MGL cost 1,000
I don't get it man

Plus doesn't the dual desert eagles have a headshot multipler on them? Cause i tried them out at the practice range, and I noticed headshots do way more damage

[jolly raven]

it's not so over buffed,but model is trash now so it's the only shotgun now

[sage citrus]

The 1887 didn't need any nerfs it was fine the way it was.

It doesn't have a headshot multipler on it either

[stiff crescent]

Make sledge break the entire map with one right click

[sage citrus]

Give the CL-40 the blast radius of a basketball field

[jolly raven]

Of course! It even fine if its 16*8!

[stiff crescent]

Give flamethrower a fire mortar projectile that functions like a Molotov. Used by holding right click.

Like in battlefront

[sage citrus]

The next shotgun they should add

[gloomy raft]

Yes, the deagles have a crazy headshot multiplier. If you get them, you should learn to animation cancel their reload, as that makes them way more viable. Missing a shot with deagles is also very punishing. The reason for the price difference is because quite often new weapons and gadgets release at a higher VRs price, then decrease in price by about 200 VRs every season after. Deagles are much newer than MGL, and therefore are more expensive. I personally think that the price for things are way to high, cause grinding the VRs to get everything is awful for new players.

[stiff crescent]

AA12 imo

[sage citrus]

Also valid

[gloomy raft]

It would be really funny if they said, "screw it," and just gave the Heavy a 50 Cal Sniper

[sage citrus]

Ok then I'll just keep grinding for the deagles then cause I was going to unlock the MGL first but now I want the Deagles more.

[sage citrus]

Barrette M82A2 .50 cal?
That'd be awesome

[gloomy raft]

Or even better, an anti tank rifle. Something chambered larger than 50 cal, with map destruction as well.

[sage citrus]

What about a 20mm anti tank rifle?

[gloomy raft]

Yes please, lol.

Unfortunately I don't think they would do that though, as heavy is supposed to be a close - mid range class.

I have seen some interesting suggestions and speculations on his next gun though

[sage citrus]

Someone suggested the Kriss Vector SMG and I'm all for that

OR
the HK416

[stiff crescent]

Give heavy a specialization that gives him a turret with great map destruction, think old tachanka turret

[gloomy raft]

I saw someone suggest the Krytac Trident LMG

It's an LMG that starts out firing slow, but then revs up to an insane 1000 rpm after a couple seconds

So it would encourage an interesting playstyle of really committing to firing the gun

And be great at suppressive fire

[sage citrus]

Oh oh!
Add the MG42 and give it 100 rounds!

Or the M249 SAW

[lyric mirage]

Make a sword skin that is a comically oversized silverware knife, and dual blades gets two oversized forks

complete the trifecta with spoon sledge

[sage citrus]

Or what about a Claymore sword for Heavy?

[lyric mirage]

me want oversized knife and oversized forks :C

throwing knives has a fork and knife skin, but it's not comically oversized so i dont like it

[simple glacier]

Hey @sage citrus wanna be friends

I really need friends

[sage citrus]

Uuhhh sure.
What level are you in The Finals?

[simple glacier]

12

[sage citrus]

Oh cool.
I'm only lvl 11 at the moment

[simple glacier]

But I'm very good at combats

[sage citrus]

You mean combat?

[simple glacier]

Yes

Whats your username

[sage citrus]

You on Playstation or Xbox?

[simple glacier]

Ps

[sage citrus]

A_Lonely_Bear_94

[simple glacier]

Ok 1 sec

[compact nexus]

Would definitely not consider it overbuffed but it is at least decent now

[sage citrus]

I don't understand why they nerfed the 1887

It didn't need it.

[simple glacier]

@sage citrus you add me I'm trying to add you but I can't my user is my name on discord

[sage citrus]

Oh that's my PSN gamer tag

[simple glacier]

Oh

1 sec

[gloomy raft]

It is very easy to deal with, just don't stand right next to the Heavy that's actively going to try to kill you.

[simple glacier]

I added you

[gloomy raft]

The SA12 is not very effective when shooting anything beyond about 10ish meters

If you just stay at mid range, the SA12 will only be able to tickle you

[sage citrus]

Ok

[simple glacier]

Wanna play now or later

@sage citrus

[sage citrus]

I mean i was trying to level up and get enough VR to unlock the dual desert eagles so alright

I got 980 VR right now

[simple glacier]

So it's a yes?

[sage citrus]

Yes

[simple glacier]

Are you in a clan

[sage citrus]

No

[simple glacier]

Join mine

It's public

[narrow solar]

I don’t understand a stun gun rework. I get it it’s for casual players but I think it just needs a cooldown nerf I don’t understand how a rework makes sense

[simple glacier]

Hop on @sage citrus

[sage citrus]

I literally just started booting the game up

[simple glacier]

Oh it didn't show me the notification you went online

@sage citrus

[faint fox]

At least the CL40 wont insta kill me

[sage citrus]

I'm on now

@simple glacier

[compact nexus]

Its fundamentally flawed and one of the more annoying things to fight in the game

Theres no fun in being stunned and then killed without you having a chance to escape or even strafe to make the gunfight more fair, even if it had a longer cd it would still be annoying

There's a reason why its like top 3 most hated gadgets/specs

[sage citrus]

Hey @simple glacier you gonna invite me? Or should I invite you

[simple glacier]

Sorry man it's the opponents and the teammate

@sage citrus

[hardy dust]

it was extremely strong and covered one of medium's only weaknesses

[sage citrus]

Ok

[lyric shuttle]

Can we nerf lockbolt already?

[toxic plover]

Buff sledgehammer damage from 115 to 125. If the Cerberus on medium and Sh1000 on light can two shot a medium then so should sledgehammer. Also buff winch to 14m or reduce cooldown

[sage citrus]

Yup i like the .50 Akimbo the headshot damage is fucking awesome

[hardy dust]

"No possible counter"💔

[toxic plover]

You disagree?

[hardy dust]

Duh

[toxic plover]

Congratulations

[sage citrus]

loads dual deagles with malicious intent

[toxic plover]

By the time the first shot goes off you'd need aimbot to get the two deagles shots off before the second killing blow

[shadow kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/ash-baby-gif-7280845142657635823

how it feels to get 2 shot by DB

[keen raven]

Now for the question if those headshots can be hit because the finals are a bit fast paced for headshots

[tribal stream]

Alright then tell us what is the counter

[cunning kettle]

who gon tell him that you can press a different button for 200 damage

[sage citrus]

I mean if you land 2 headshots on a Heavy it literally takes 80% of their health.

It's so satisfying.
Even better if you land one on a light

[late sequoia]

I keep finding 20-30m shots against lights taking 4 shots instead of 3 with the Pike.

Not every time, but often enough that it's confusing.

[cunning kettle]

probably dropoff because 50 damage means you have to be at max damage range or else it wont 3 tap

[late sequoia]

I'm SURE it's not 50m.

I'm talking ranges that a light can land most of their shots with the M11 full auto.

[cunning kettle]

mark em and then clip the kill and then check the range, better to get conclusive data

[keen raven]

Yeah but good luck landing it. It's like getting a random crit in tf2

[hardy dust]

*with ubersaw

[cunning kettle]

the heavy stealing:

[late sequoia]

80% of 350 is 280.
Pike headshot is 75dmg.
2x75 is 150.
150 is less than 43% of 350.

[hardy dust]

You could just have really good aim or better yet don't let them get right in your face without doing anything. Sticking with your team is also very effective.

[hardy dust]

That is literally impossible

[tribal stream]

good aim doesnt save you when they pop out of nowhere using invis, A good db player isnt going to w key towards you perfectly visible, they are going to wait for an opportunity and assassinate you

[hardy dust]

Pike falloff starts at 50m

[cunning kettle]

nah pike falloff started in update 4.6 where it got nerfed to 47 damage

[hardy dust]

You can hear and see invis, and if they manage to outplay you and take you down when you're distracted that's literally what they're supposed to do.

Or would you rather have heavy win against a db light in optimal range when the light takes the heavy by surprise and has good positioning and gamesense?

[tribal stream]

outplay? there is nothing to outplay if you are dead the moment you react to them

[cunning kettle]

pressing q on your keyboard:

[tribal stream]

i dont play heavy

[hardy dust]

So they outplayed you by using advantage of distractions and positioning...

[tribal stream]

It's not hard to play like a rat bro

[cunning kettle]

playing with your team so a solo db light gets nuked faster than cl40 back in s4

[hardy dust]

Its also not hard to have gamesense and hearing

Db lights really aren't an issue

[tribal stream]

Literally every single excuse other than db is not fun to play against

[hardy dust]

?

[cunning kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/snoring-snoring-aneurysm-brain-aneurysm-brain-aww-gif-25678781

[tribal stream]

I'm glad that your lobbies are filled with players that don't know how to play the game

[hardy dust]

I'm just not bad at the game 💔

[tribal stream]

Skill issue? Oh wow I haven't heard that one before bro

[hardy dust]

It's almost as if getting outskilled is literally a skill issue.

[tribal stream]

There is no skill to dying in less than half a second

[hardy dust]

You can kill them faster than they can kill you, and if you let them get to point blank range without noticing you deserve to die.

[tribal stream]

CNS shouldn't have been nerfed if this is how you think

[cunning kettle]

this mf has his kovaaks and mouse in his bio but still gets wrecked by a db light

✨gamesense ✨ moment

[hardy dust]

😔

[late sequoia]

DB... light?? When did lights get dual blades?

[hardy dust]

Double barrel

[cunning kettle]

double barrel, aka sh1900

[late sequoia]

ah, 1900

[cunning kettle]

lowkey a light with dual blades will actually be scarry because the biggest downside to dual blades gets negated with dash

[tribal stream]

There is no point in talking to people like you, you just go "haha skill issue" instead of actually trying to have a conversation as to why people hate it so much and how to mitigate that problem.

[cunning kettle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807809192537882647/1289943099254116395/957397611646701578-1.gif

[hardy dust]

Not really. I said why it wasn't an issue and how to counterplay it. You haven't said anything but "its uncounterable" or "you cant outplay them"

[cunning kettle]

no wonder

[tribal stream]

You said audio, the proper light is going to wait until you are engaged and then shoot you in the back while invisible. Hoping they make a mistake is not a proper counter strategy

[hardy dust]

They are literally capitalizing on your mistake...

[tribal stream]

By fighting someone else when I don't know they are there?

[hardy dust]

If they're waiting for you to engage then you're fighting a 2v3. You have the advantage right off the bat.

[tribal stream]

Lights are not supposed to fight the enemy team front line otherwise they die?

[hardy dust]

So they're supposed to take you by surprise and capitalize on your mistakes

[cunning kettle]

or they can run dagger and 1-shot you

embark, nerf dagger

[hardy dust]

And if you take a scenario where they aren't part of the enemy team, that's a 2v1, you're not meant to win that.

[cunning kettle]

dagger can 1v3 ez

[hardy dust]

The only point you've made is that a db light can win a 2v1.

[tribal stream]

I didn't say that?

[hardy dust]

You said they engage you while you're fighting someone else

[tribal stream]

Yeah, thats how you play light

[hardy dust]

So you're fighting 2 people smh

[tribal stream]

With my team

[hardy dust]

Okay then you have a 3v2 against the enemy team. If you can't use that to your advantage that's on you

[tribal stream]

It's not 3v2 because the light flanks and shoots you in the back while the people who start the engagement draw fire and attention

[hardy dust]

It's a 3v2 until the light engages. You mentioned that you have to be distracted to engage. So the light can't engage right away, but needs not only good positioning but also good gamesense, and still leaves their team to fight a 3v2 for a moment.

[cunning kettle]

there is a reason why lights in high elo have thermal vision a good amount of time

[tribal stream]

Okay and, it's not like their team mates is letting the enemy kill them lmao

[hardy dust]

How are their teammates gonna do that? If the light gets noticed out of position they're pretty much dead, leaving the rest of the team at a huge disadvantage.

[tribal stream]

Cover?

Do you not know how to play fps games on a fundamental level or something?

[cunning kettle]

speaking of thermal when will embark fix the thermal vision bug

[hardy dust]

Do you not know how to use gamesense or smth?

[cunning kettle]

calm down its not like recon senses where you can just press a button

[hardy dust]

Its not like the light doesn't exist until they engage.

[tribal stream]

I'm sorry I don't have over 2000 hours and am top 0.1%

[hardy dust]

It aint that hard to use your ears

Or just not try to do an impression of hellen keller

[tribal stream]

I always struggle to hear invisible lights in general, especially during combat because they tend to be very quiet in general

[cunning kettle]

careful you gonna get 1984'd

[tribal stream]

I'm not the only person that has trouble with the audio in this game either

[hardy dust]

You can use more than just your ears

[tribal stream]

No shit

[hardy dust]

Then do it

[tribal stream]

I do, but you assume I'm bottom of the barrel garbage for some reason

[cunning kettle]

never had a problem with db lights tbh and they 1-shot me

[tribal stream]

Something can be a problem and the person dealing with it is still capable of dealing with it, I know, it's a hard concept to understand giving critism while being able to deal with the thing that annoys you.

[hardy dust]

If you have that much of an issue with db lights then id assume you're not at the pinnacle of skill

[cunning kettle]

if i know theres a db light in my lobby, i just adjust my playstyle so i get out of their range while still being useful for the team

[hardy dust]

Problems have solutions. The issue is ignoring them. Of course you won't be able to deal with them in all scenarios, but saying they don't have a counter is a rather large stretch

[tribal stream]

I got to high plat when I decided to take a break from aim training for a week. It's not an issue with skill. You need to stop being so condecending. People like you are the reason why gamers are seen as so toxic, always trying to put each other down when they have an opinion you don't agree with.

Your "counter" is fundamental gameplay that may or may not work depending on whether or not the player has a brain, you cannot be perfect 100% of the time.

[hardy dust]

Im simply saying they have a counter. Your statement was that they dont. I'm not saying you can have a 100% success rate against them.

[tribal stream]

They don't have a counter other than just understanding the game and hoping the player is dumber than you are, that's not a reasonable explaination as to why the gun is good in it's current state.

[cunning kettle]

sh1900 hasnt been "meta" ever since s1 and thats reaching

[hardy dust]

Understanding the game... that's literally just playing the game.

[hardy dust]

It's never been meta

[tribal stream]

Isn't it literally meta right now?

[hardy dust]

Nope

[cunning kettle]

its a pubstomping weapon

[hardy dust]

Lh1 or m26, its on the bottom half of light weapons.

Its just good against worse players, kinda like melees.

[cunning kettle]

it was pretty strong in s1 and thats why i said its reaching

[hardy dust]

Or light in general being good against worse players.

[cunning kettle]

light is hard countered by skill, thats why high elo says their on the weaker side while low elo/casual says they are op

[tribal stream]

And you think that's okay? Just because it's not super great at higher elo that it should be allowed to terrorize the lower ends of the skill spectrum? You have to consider both sides, it doesn't matter if there is a healthy high elo playerbase if all the casuals leave the game beacuse of bullshit they don't like.

[hardy dust]

I never said anything about that. I just said it wasn't uncounterable.

[cunning kettle]

i mean like im a full casual player and ive only had an issue with sh1900 before the nerf

also basically every weapon can pubstomp

[hardy dust]

Not to mention literally everything can pubstomb, as stated

[cunning kettle]

how it feels to drop a 30 kill game with sword:

[hardy dust]

If I die to something like that I don't complain about it. I recognize that I didn't play as well as I could and try to learn from my mistakes and get better. I don't ask for it to get nerfed instantly.

[cunning kettle]

sword is lowkey cancer even back when i was sub 100 hrs in this game i would drop 20 kill games with it consistently

[tribal stream]

It's not cancer you just didn't have the gamesense to counter it

[hardy dust]

It's really good against people who can't aim well

[cunning kettle]

reading comprehension check

rolled a nat1

[hardy dust]

Ngl if I die to sword 99% of the time it's my fault.

[cunning kettle]

ngl if i die to sword i just get the stungun out

[tribal stream]

Sword is so annoying to fight not because of the weapon itself but because of how badly dash causes the player using it to desync

From what I understand dash does NOT have i-frames, but it feels like it does due to the poor networking

[hardy dust]

Tbf network issues are even worse for the sword player 😭

[cunning kettle]

sword users after using 3 dashes on a medium (they only hit one lunge)

[cunning kettle]

if we talking shitreg, its the worst for dagger players

[hardy dust]

Sword users after hitting 3 lunges in a row (none of them registered cuz melee hitreg sucks)

[tribal stream]

I'm sure it is which is why my bullets literally do not hit the target I know for sure I am not missing

[cunning kettle]

are there coin effects on the enemy?

like in my dagger clip, that burst of coins from a "hit"

[tribal stream]

if you are trying to tell me I was missing don't bro

[hardy dust]

Average dagger backstab (you were not within 5° of exactly behind the player)

[hardy dust]

Considering the amount of people who say the exact same thing as you and the issue is literally that they're missing, it's a valid point

[tribal stream]

The difference between them and me is that I have actually developed my aim skill to a high level, I am not an average player mechanically.

[hardy dust]

Anyone can say that

[cunning kettle]

im 99% sure coin effects mean your client recognized that you shouldve hit, but if theres no hitmarker thats the server's issue

if there is no feedback at all, then thats probably a skill issue

[tribal stream]

Okay then why even have conversations if you believe that any form of accomplishment is just bullshit

I was certified for my aim skill in the server that the benchmarks are hosted on, I promise you I am not lying

[cunning kettle]

why even complain when you wont realize that not all issues are embark's fault

[hardy dust]

I'm just taking in account of patterns observed. People say that, yet they're still the issue.

[cunning kettle]

post a clip of this "noreg" you talk about then

better to see whats actually going on instead of what someone thinks is going on

[tribal stream]

What are you even trying to say? Why are you being so condescending? You need to chill tf out with this attitude.

[cunning kettle]

i casted mirror

[hardy dust]

Its literally a valid point

[tribal stream]

Makes sense, it's still better not to assume. It doesn't make your perspective look better when you put down the person you are trying to convince

[cunning kettle]

lowkey repeating what people said back to them is the funniest shit in an argument

[hardy dust]

You know what would actually be better? Having solid proof. Then I wouldn't be stuck in a situation where I can't gauge the validity of your statements and have to resort to making inferences based on previously observed patterns.

[cunning kettle]

anyways uhhhh.. nerf bow

[hardy dust]

Bow meta is too oppresive 😔

[cunning kettle]

not as oppressive as the high elo turret meta

[hardy dust]

True... every time I see triple turret a part of me dies...

[cunning kettle]

embark needs to buff data reshaper if we want any hope of this game continuing

[tribal stream]

I don't have video proof of this, but fortunately for you I'm not the only person who has noticed that there are significant problems with the games netcode. I am done with this conversation though because you guys are clearly more interested in trying to poke fun at me instead of actually trying to consider the things I am saying.

[cunning kettle]

hitreg might be bad but that doesnt rule out skill issue

[hardy dust]

I'm not poking fun at you, im just making factual statements. I agree that there are problems with the netcode, but also that there is a significant amount of people who use that as an excuse to justify their subpar aim.

I am taking what you're saying into consideration, but without any kind of proofs they are simply statements exactly the same as many other people have said, while being they themselves the issue.

[toxic plover]

Light fucks are always going to value their fun over the good of the game. I hope half of all lights quit playing after stungun nerf

[hardy dust]

?

[cunning kettle]

He’s just like that

Probably the most obnoxious and ignorant heavy main I know

[raven gulch]

<@&1012034066876473384> I guess we will going to be invaded by bots

Someone pushing in bots into the server

[cunning kettle]

Second wave I’ve seen

[vestal wagon]

Add Stim & Semtex for lights <@&1012034066876473384>

[restive plover]

ive noticed its reg is kinda shoddy this season. is it just me?

[thorny jewel]

Please post in #👂┇game-feedback and refrain from tagging CMs unless someone's misbehaving

[cunning kettle]

Servers were shit after a while a month or so back

[late sequoia]

"Were"?

[cunning kettle]

*still are

[real pagoda]

Does someone knows why there is so much LH1 lately ? I don't see any up, and it's been nerf last patch, I don't get it (I mean, yes, I get it, the weapon is good, but why do people only wake up now ?)

[plain wasp]

I don't use stun or shotguns because I value the fun of the game

[toxic plover]

matter is respectable. SH1000 is not. Embark keeps melee pathetic as well

[gaunt lion]

Real

[compact nexus]

Erm you clearly didnt backstab there 50 damage deserved

[fallow spindle]

Very interesting

[lapis lotus]

there wasn’t even a hit marker it was 0 damage lol

[lapis lotus]

i get that with sword too it’s something to do with hitting them while falling/hitting ground

[compact nexus]

it was sarcasm

[lapis lotus]

i know

[sage citrus]

Prison Panada

[smoky escarp]

#🔥┇drip-check

[plucky spade]

The shotguns of this game are proof that the people yearn for the quake railgun or ut asmd

[sage citrus]

Give us a mingun damn it.

Or a M249 SAW at the least

[meager ginkgo]

Nuke🗿🗿🗿🗿

How about a glock 18

But like techy

[sage citrus]

Give that to light or better yet a Kriss Vector

[brittle yoke]

rookie mistake, dashing while falling trying to backstab gurenteed noreg

[cunning kettle]

Tbh it normally works for me, that server was just crap

[hardy dust]

Removal of visual recoil, red dot sight and other options getting nerfed made the weapon more accessible and noticed. It was always arguably the best light weapon for a while.

[plucky spade]

Time for the matter to shine too

[snow scaffold]

Work better as an ability for the heavy ajgssh

I would like that the devs add dual pistols for the other two classes, the dual G18’s for medium and dual 1911’s for Light (the model is already added in cosmetics)

[keen raven]

i wish there were nukes

[compact nexus]

Biggest change was the recoil being fixed back at the start of season 3, making it super consistent

It also received a damage buff to 52 which was absolutely horrid and ruined the game lol

[neat bolt]

Ice grenade? Can be thrown at the floor to make the surface slippery and keep ppl from consistently running around in circles

If not that then can also be used to nerf movement speed a lil

[keen raven]

another seaseon another nerf to the ranged options of sledge heavy

[compact nexus]

Lockbolt just got hella buffed

[boreal laurel]

I’d get behind most new gadget ideas, but I hate ice mechanics in most games 😄

[plush harbor]

The damage buff was reverted very shortly after.

[keen raven]

first it was the rpg then the nukes then the winch chain. but at least we got the dam lockbolt

[compact nexus]

Yeah like a week in LOL

[compact nexus]

Nukes were killed a year ago bro get with the times

[keen raven]

did you read what i said?

[compact nexus]

Yeah nukes definitely died before rpg

[keen raven]

were you there?

its just this game has gone so far down

nerfs all the dam time

[compact nexus]

Yeah I thought nukes were fucking hilarious but they were also incredibly over powered and rightfully deleted

[keen raven]

BUT IT WAS FUN

[shell sonnet]

for the user

[keen raven]

and other things chould be fun if only they buffed them

it used to be goofy and fun and chaotic

[shell sonnet]

how do you even buff things to be able to compete with almost los ranged instant full team wipes?

[compact nexus]

They were also stupidly broken handheld team wipes

Like this was the funniest shit ever but it absolutely didn't need to be in the game https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/1LUrvGKZKHINzb/spok?invite=cr-MSxyOWUsNjc0NDA4ODks

[shell sonnet]

and like, at some point everyone is just running around with op weapons, 1 shotting everyone or being annoying in some other way
power creep would be horrendous

[keen raven]

the range of the explosion choulda been died down and then its done

[grave edge]

I just need the sword nerfed and I'm fine

[neat bolt]

Too bad :3

[keen raven]

they choulda megabuffed aps or glitch things

or had it so the integrity of an object was lowerd so it chould be shot the blow up the heavy with there own nuke

[compact nexus]

Ah yes make a gadget required to counter the team wipe button this sounds like an extremely healthy and not frustrating at all meta overcentralized on cheese

[keen raven]

and it whould be fun

[grave edge]

Agreed

[shell sonnet]

and then you have 1-2 hard counter gadgets that you can never swap off
a stale forced meta

[keen raven]

did yall not read this?

[shell sonnet]

trust me, i play/played a game that tried that
it barely works, and its held together with duct tape, hopes and dreams

and it still leads to frustrations a majority of the time

[compact nexus]

This is the shit we need more of in the finals, not op team wipes https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/1MX6ajr964jcxR/spok?invite=cr-MSwxSlEsNjc0NDA4ODks

[shell sonnet]

i wanna aim them and ride them around the map

[compact nexus]

Detachable cannon would be crazy

Blow it up and then you have a one time use cannon ball? Now thats making something op and fun but not overbearing

[keen raven]

we went from arcade chaotic fun to this bs

im done

[compact nexus]

The game can still be chaotic and is still fun but pop off

[keen raven]

once in a blue moon

[compact nexus]

If you want it to be more chaotic then just yknow cause chaos

Destroy buildings light everything on fire chase people down with plants all of this has been in the game since forever, you just choose not to do it anymore

[grave edge]

I done killed a whole team doing that, I agree on that

[keen raven]

cuz that dosent work anymore

you get gunned down because now its all just guns

[grave edge]

Nah it's sword now, I got in 2 matches with all lights and swords

[keen raven]

AND THERES ANOTHER THING

the teamates alwase just run off doin nothing

[shell sonnet]

i have a clip where a light dashed past me, out a fucking window somehow and still hit me

[compact nexus]

It literally does still work just as fine as it used to

It wasn't meta before and it isn't meta now nothing changed

Just go for fun instead of meta thats all there is to it

[compact nexus]

This has been a thing always, nothing has changed here

The only change is with your mentality

[keen raven]

but now its all stratagy

its all guns

its all frag grenades

[ember sorrel]

.

[keen raven]

its all the same kinda cashout steals

[hardy dust]

That's probably a server issue.

[grave edge]

We need a nerf on last lights gadgets

[compact nexus]

This has... always been the case you're just used to the game now so it's not new

[keen raven]

then there hasent been anything new added in years

wheres the dramatic meta shifts

wheres the new shit that adds chaos into the game

all the new things just feel so nich and boring like its already been overtuned

the in game events never hit in a played spot

where are the rare high moments

its all just get damaged try to reset probibly get chased down or the oposite

it feels like too much stratagy without being a stratagy game

[fallow spindle]

lmaO

[shell sonnet]

meh
hitboxes for melees are kinda messed up, if you (figuratively) throw your mouse out the window you can hit stuff even sideways from you
this creates a bubble of death around you where anyone can be hit, as long as you had enough ospuze
normally not a problem
but with dash, this creates a massive, practically inescapable aoe where anything can be hit
doesnt help that the light becomes harder to hit due to dash

[keen raven]

and im tired of aiming

you gotta put so much efffort towords trying to hit them that you cant have a chill experience

theres too many deaths you can do nothing about

[shell sonnet]

this game has a lot of frustration factors like that
i personally tried not giving a damn recently
literally, i will purposefully never touch the objective

ill help my mate cap, sure
but i will not touch the box, cashout, whatever
own survival first, just shoot people

not having this investment makes it far less punishing to loose

im far less annoyed, which leads to more fun, thus a healthier mindset
an upwards spiral

kinda sad i have to play this game that way, but at least it works

[covert parcel]

i do go for the box as light, i get cursed out in VC
i do not go for the box as light, i get cursed out in VC

people are just toxic to classes they dont like

whenever i play heavy, ive only gotten cursed out once since OB

[shell sonnet]

aye, might as well go for the one where i wont be 3rd partied and loose all my effort for no reason with 0 payoff

[covert parcel]

needs to be a button that says "stfu about KD this is an objective based game, stop farming kills in the middle of nowhere and go for box"

[ivory vessel]

We need to have some sort of grenade the slows players movement and disables specializations for a set period of time

[shell sonnet]

happens often enough tho
try using spear lol

[grave edge]

I get what u mean, I'm tired of teammates just running for kills and in end when we lose they ask wt frick just happened, I was like buddy u went for kills so it's all bout u

[grave edge]

Logically, sorry if I m rude but people hate lights cuz they are always with their meta loadouts and just for kills, I bet even the kd ratio is high due to them playing lights. I hav very few lights friends who help with the teamwork and understand teamwork is necessary

[grave edge]

Spear or riot shiel

If u got good aim then u can go for guns

[grave edge]

Preach brother preach

[topaz escarp]

What skins should I get for the sniper in the finals

[stable gulch]

We need a lock on missile launcher

lol

[grave edge]

Especially for lights

I would give anything just to beg the devs for a one shot weapon to the lights

[grave edge]

Never played sniper cuz I'm bad at aiming but go for a skin which feels like u sniping in a military world

[hardy dust]

The hitreg also sucks and tons of times you can literally see coins but not have damage. Melees do have big hitboxes, but they're still limited to point blank range and have high ttks.

[warm heath]

meh yeah I agree

[balmy rune]

Which gun is the best for medium class

[shut bane]

depends on how comfortable you are with your aim tbh

if youre comfortable enough the fcar and revolver can do really well

pike is also much better nowadays but struggles at close range, especially against heavies which are usually at close range lol

[sacred scroll]

They keep nerfing model, its so sad

[toxic plover]

I love me a heavy. Even a mediocre heavy. I'm very indifferent to even a mediocre light

[warm heath]

Love heavy die by heavy

[shadow onyx]

we need more famas skins

[last spoke]

Jetpack for heavies, wallrun pack for lights or perhaps mediums

[toxic plover]

Stop making melee pathetic.

Sledge:
Heavy attack 200-> 210
Light attack 115->125

Spear:
Spin 105-> 120 and remove the third spin or make it input based.
65,80,90->85 flat

Riot shield:
Light attack 90->90
Swing damage is okay, swing speed needs to be increased slightly Like 10%. Increase hitbox registration.
Special attack
Blocking is great and all, but there's almost no reason to block when you can passively block so let's lean into that. Be able to slide and jump while blocking. Slide blocking basically makes you unable to take damage unless very neich angles or AOEs.

Duel blades:
Light attack 50×2, 60×2, 70. -> remove third hit, standardize damage to 55×2 per input.
Special attack deflect-> add headshot multiplier, fix deflect hit registration

Sword:
Light attack 74->75
Special attack charge 140->150

Dagger:
Light attack 50->unchanged
Special attack 320->350 if they backstab a heavy they are gonna do the quick melee anyways so it's a small QOL. Also decrease backstab angle by 15° so you cannot be backstabbed with you back against a wall no matter what.

What do y'all think?

[stable gulch]

Yessss!

[neat bolt]

Potato skin for pyro grenade. A hot potato.

[toxic plover]

Steam sfx

[shut bane]

I vouch for the 🥔

[toxic plover]

Stop making melee pathetic.

Sledge:
Heavy attack 200-> 210
Light attack 115->125

Spear:
Spin 105-> 120 and remove the third spin or make it input based.
65,80,90->85 flat

Riot shield:
Light attack 90->90
Swing damage is okay, swing speed needs to be increased slightly Like 10%. Increase hitbox registration.
Special attack
Blocking is great and all, but there's almost no reason to block when you can passively block so let's lean into that. Be able to slide and jump while blocking. Slide blocking basically makes you unable to take damage unless very neich angles or AOEs.

Duel blades:
Light attack 50×2, 60×2, 70. -> remove third hit, standardize damage to 55×2 per input.
Special attack deflect-> add headshot multiplier, fix deflect hit registration

Sword:
Light attack 74->75
Special attack charge 140->150

Dagger:
Light attack 50->unchanged
Special attack 320->350 if they backstab a heavy they are gonna do the quick melee anyways so it's a small QOL. Also decrease backstab angle by 15° so you cannot be backstabbed with you back against a wall no matter what.

[kind pumice]

For what reason does lh1 need 15 rounds in a magazine

Why does ks23 have random spread on hipfire

[toxic plover]

Bad design choice

[kind pumice]

😭

[toxic plover]

They didn't want it to have insane range(they were too lazy to make falloff up to 90% and bullet drop and travel time would make it basically not worth it to shoot at that kind of range)

[toxic plover]

@spice vigil
I'm not going to wait another half hour to message you.

Sledge literally doesn't change it's already like that.

Sword deserves the change because the double barrel can already one shot a light AT RANGE.

Spear needs the buff because it doesn't have light attack quick melee combo on winch against lights.

Even if they do nerf stungun its not going to be like it doesn't still hard counter melee

[spice vigil]

yeah thats mb about the sledge my maths was shit

but no, sword does not need that, neither does dagger

[toxic plover]

I'm indifferent on buffing the melee weapon that scares tf out of me, but sure, let's not buff the damage. The decrease in backstab angle available is necessary though

Sword gets the buff so it isn't one sided against the SH1000 counterpart. EVEN THEN, if the Sh user is ready they still win 100% the time

[spice vigil]

is it though? it can be annoying to get stabbed when you feel like you shouldnt have been, but whenever i get killed but dagger, its often, "oh damn i shouldve seen that/they played that well.

sword also can hit infinitely, so ifeel it is fairly balanced in regard to the SH

then mediums also get demolished by those changes, 2 shotting with sledge

[toxic plover]

I mean If I put my back to the wall, it just shouldn't be possible for me to be backstabbed no matter what so that nerf is deserved, iirc, it's too generous with a straight 180° angle.

I don't understand what you mean by hit infinitly, sorry.

You can already two shot a medium with heavy to light attack, the double light attack into quick melee is faster but it's too easy to miss the quick melee because it doesn't get melee magnetism like the light attack does. The heavy attack into quick melee is kinda crazy yes, but, heavy attack doesn't get melee magnetism and it comes out too slow after winch to actually land. So it's basically only amazing against stationary targets.(I lied a little, pretty good if you get the jump on someone who is distracted too, but that's just being rewarded for flanking)let me remind you that SH and Cerberus, and dagger both kill a sledge heavy faster than anything I can do. The double light attack on medium is necessary because it high ELO they slide away and flick on me over and over again so I am powerless to close the gap without winch

[spice vigil]

guts youve been typing forever im scared

[toxic plover]

Hahaha sorry I'm up at work

[vestal wagon]

Pls add Stim Shot & Semtex

[toxic plover]

Now I'm scared because you aren't typing 😂😂

[glad wedge]

did thay nerf the m11

[vestal wagon]

Nope.. still hittin for me. Something feel off?

[glad wedge]

i mean it feel like it take longer to kill lights n mid unless you hit heads

[late sequoia]

The wheel system for V day really stinks.
It's so insanely improbable to get all the items that it feels like an insult just having it.

[timber idol]

what if they added a parry system, if you hit it at the right time, you can hit back grenades and rockets

if not, then at least make melee vs melee combat better, if im using the riot shield its like the shield doesnt exist to sword players

[toxic plover]

I think the reload button should be a dodge button with a 2 second cooldown. Really fucking funny when I heavy attack a dual sword med and run off, turn around, turns out I didn't kill him hahaha

[timber idol]

omg yes

[toxic plover]

Could be like a forward lung, or a block button, just anything is better than nothing

[timber idol]

or it could be a timing thing, reload button acticates a parry ehich lasts 0.7 secs and any attacks in that time frame will be reversed without the user taking any damage

it could have a 2 sec cooldown or something

[toxic plover]

I say just make the parried person be stun locked for a half second, just long enough for a light attack punish. Have to be able to faint attacks using it though

[timber idol]

if we are gonna have a proper melee combat system, we need more melee weapons

[toxic plover]

The community would never allow it. Next season be the melee update with all classes getting a new melee weapon, new melee system, and midevil map

[timber idol]

yesss

[toxic plover]

Dear got I'm going crazy thinking about it

[timber idol]

i will eat my newborn son if this doesnt happen

crossbow skin for the LH1 or Pike

[toxic plover]

I want greatsword weapon and crank action crossbow gadget for heavy so I can play Guts in THE FINALS🤤🤤🤤

40 damage each, 12 bolts, 20 second cooldown.

great sword

parry mechanic
does an upward slash (opposite of sledge direction)
while holding parry teammates can use as a portable launch pad
to balance have a stamina meter for parry (block meter)
momentum based slashing (longer time swinging faster it attacks) (first 4-5 swings, the speed increases then stays at max speed for 15-25 more swings)

4 special attacks to destroy wall. Special attacks take 2 seconds from start up of parry pose.
while parrying blocks 25% of dmg
35 dmg for primary swing (maybe less dmg per swing)
250 dmg for secondary (charged upwards slash)

[timber idol]

maybe fire would be the slash and alt fire is a block type thing, but when slashing whilst blocking, you can push things and people out of the way, so by looking up and doing it to your teammate you can use it as a launchpad

[toxic plover]

That would be cool AF. A weapon that has a huge skill ceiling that alone can efficiently move cashbox? Yessss

[plucky spade]

did you just suggest making light one shot other lights???? In an easy to use alt fire?

Note that you miss with sh1900 (very likely with a target like a light) and you're dead, sword does not do that

[formal sierra]

Man embark pls fix my model back again😭🙏🏼

I changed from being a heavy main to medium main just to master model and use it ( and bought a skin for it just to use it)… Now after i mastered my aim with it the next day it got nerfed

[plucky spade]

how much max dmg is it now?

[sacred scroll]

So true it didn't need another nerf

99 max

Worst than ks23

[plucky spade]

couldn't it be 100

[sacred scroll]

11 pellets

[toxic plover]

lol. hard to not 1 shot a light with SH

[sand monolith]

Model is still good

It’s just niche and the current meta doesn’t favor it

The meta hasn’t actually favored it for a long time and it’s still been meta. Which shows how stupid it was

[toxic plover]

I can't play ranked with friends anymore. Literal platinums that can't win 1v1s

They are all either fucking high or drunk when I'm trying to lock in with energy drinks

I need a season 5 diamond or ruby or some shit to boost me.

[mighty crane]

is shak 50 gonna get nerfed

[mighty crane]

then theyre not ur friends

[toxic plover]

I think maybe I'm just being a bad friend

[mighty crane]

no

are u a man of god

[plush harbor]

ok

[boreal laurel]

Doesn’t need one, the small mag makes up for all its strengths

[vestal wagon]

Pls add Stim Shot & Semtex for lights

[mint hawk]

Guys can we have a serious talk about the current state of Frag grenades?

Some pre-talk stats and information;
Land mine........ 120 dmg - 30s cd (one use)
RPG-7............... 100 dmg - 45s cd (one use)

Gas grenade.... 22/s for 12s - 30s cd (one use)
Gas mine.......... 22/s for 10s - 27s cd (two uses)

Pyro grenade... 20/s for 12s- 30s cd (one use)
Pyro mine......... 79 on hit, 25/s for 10s - 27s cd (two uses)

Frag grenade... 149 - 20s (two uses)

Has anyone else noticed a massive increase in frag usage recently?
what does everyone else think about their frequency and use?

[mystic nimbus]

@sand monolith imma do awful things to u

https://tenor.com/view/cute-cat-meme-cute-cat-cat-meme-meme-xafer-gif-1492599941141242049

[shell sonnet]

any mine either forces the enemy to go around them, destroy them with something (which will most likely alert you), or never miss since they only blow up once someone gets within range
the existence of a mine is a threat

explosive mines are usable as breaching tool and that cooldown is just straight up false?
its 15s

rpg is borderline unmissable, decent damage and has really good destruction potential

gas has good aoe defensive application or makes the enemy run+use up their pyro tools
pyro is similar, decent aoe defensive potential, other utility such as setting off mines, burning goo/gas or hitting others through objects, or forces the enemy to use smoke

mines work just like their throwables, just that they trade range and immediate usage for amount and automatic triggering on player proximity
(exception being explosive mine, which only gets one due to mine stacking, thus the short cooldown instead)

frags have their downsides
they may be used more often, but that could just come down to being simpler in usage
it could be confirmation bias, you notice a pyro nade/gas nade being shut down way more easily, moving people towards frags
the same thing applies in reverse
if pyro/gas hits you, you likely get to run away and collect yourself, where a frag that hits you is an instant up to 150 damage (which can be especially bad if they had readability issues due to audio/visual clutter)
you notice the impact of getting hit by a frag grenade way more easily, so while they might be balanced comperatively, they can end up being more annoying than the other options

[mint hawk]

Firstly, i appreciate the thought out response.

could you elaborate on what the frags downsides actually are, since you only mentioned its competitors downsides?

because in my personal experience they are becoming oppressive since you have 2 of them and at quite high, instant damage.
you can blindly throw 2 in the cashout room and do a 'fight deciding' amount of damage, if not killing one or multiple players. and thats not to mention having 2 teammates that also run them making 4 more frags at disposal.

gas and fire doesnt stack. but grenades do.
3 of you can throw 6 grenades in very quick succession dealing a grand total of** 894** potential damage.

[spring grotto]

APS? Do people forget thats a thing?

[mint hawk]

aps is bad.
goo grenades are far better at plugging holes and covers far more area than aps.
they also last longer as they have a secondary stage after being lit on fire.

not to mention, its very difficult to make use of a static projectile barrier in a game thats very fast paced and very mobile.
people will breach walls and throw everything at you anyway.

[spring grotto]

Use it like a glitch mine… play with your team, as the fight starts throw it down and play around it. Whenever there is a heavy with mesh i throw it down and kite around it. Simply nerfing a grenade because you lack game sense to see, hear, or expect one thrown at you is wild when there is a tool in the game designed to stop that entirely.

Sure maybe two charges is too much, but completely ignoring the intended counter play to something then complaining about that something is just wild.

APS is amazing, it blocks c4, rpg, mines, grenades(including launched ones). Has more uses than just throwing it down at an angle a team might push from. And a hefty hp bar considering it’s a gadget. Only decent argument against running aps is the lack of other better gadgets, but its a team game, and if everyone had the tool to counter every way of play the game would be bland and boring.

[hybrid jewel]

KS23 should pop walls in 2 shots

Sniper should have body piercing capabilities for 75% damage on second hit with ability to headshot

Revolver should have extremely high bloom and an uncapped fire rate, so you can fan the hammer with AWFUL accuracy but maintain its current accuracy with the fire rate it's at rn.

Thoughts? Kinda with each weapon's identity, and each is a buff to a kinda niche weapon in World Tour (haven't considered balancing for other modes) on each class

Sorry to interrupt the current convo, didn't know where to put these 😅❤️

[mint hawk]

i agree with all of your points.
however,
the problem is that APS only blocks 3 projectiles. thats not a lot. the introduction of powershift has left aps in a weak state.
it has a lot of applications but it just doesnt help in the recent meta where grenades are a permanent issue in every game.
aps will not hold off the overbearing presence of frags alone, let alone deal with anything else its supposed to.

and unless you see or hear grenades in the chaos that final breeds then its also impossible to dodge them unless you have luck.

grenades are currently a forced choice because they are so overbearingly strong.
there is no "should i pick this or that" for strategy
its frags every time. they are too reliable, consistent, and high instant damage to pass up on.

[royal thicket]

Message from @robust scroll in https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1253147941472960666 yesterday.
Current issues
-Charge&Slam can't be blocked
-Gateway + carriable
-hitbox and visual don't align (it doesn't lower while crouching, you see your own shield more to the right than it should when right clicking), which brings me to:
a- most meelees can't be blocked consistently or at all
b-There's a gap at knee level enemies can use to shoot you through the passive hitbox. Active hitbox doesn't give full coverage either
c- Explosives can only be blocked with the 'left' part of your shield (your POV)
-If weapons get close enough to you they can shoot through the hitbox (needs testing to figure out exactly how/why)
-Doing a qm will always play the sound of hitting your shield
-Baton swing is very, very small (maybe it's not intentional? I could believe it)
-You can't hit enemies encased in goo
-You can't block while crouched or when forced crouching

Buffs it needs:
-Right click blocking is instant
-Active hitbox covers all your body, speed increase
-Bigger swing
Embark, you're telling me a single weapon has ELEVEN bugs?
Not to mention the new event also brings a new bug

[robust scroll]

Of course not! There's a lot more, those are just the most significant ones

[compact nexus]

Thank you lord and savior embark for taking multiple months to fix the pyro grenade bug with riot shield

[spring grotto]

Ive run double movement defin, with glitch prox and aps in reserve and climbed to top 30 in wt, also about a win away from diamond. I’ve probably played powershift 20 times, so as far as balancing for those modes, im not your guy. Tournament balancing tho, i got you. 3 is pretty good considering its an instant parry to all those mentioned. And dodging a grenade is simple once you can single out that specific sound in a the chaos. Ive died many times after hearing it and ignoring it or simply just not paying enough attention to the distinct sound it makes. @mint hawk

[compact nexus]

Aps can also save a bunch of your defenses like turrets (if youre running turret for whatever reason) and mines which are commonly blown to smitherines by frags

Its viability at top play is probably in question but for most games its a perfectly viable option to counter grenades

[spring grotto]

APS has save my team numerous times from double heavy instant rocket engages. Its just a niche pick that holds amazing counter play opportunities. The aps field also block from put of los of the gadget.

[spring grotto]

Viability in top play is a joke, top players make anything work, wether it be good or not. Also top play is silly imo, its just meta gaming and griefing before you get griefed atp. 100% top players are good, but many of them suck the fun from the game.

[compact nexus]

Well yeah that goes for any game

Top level is strictly competitive, you dont make top level by playing for fun

[sharp sentinel]

agreed

[spring grotto]

Yes, but the nature of this game and its proceedings just highlight slimey slime ball activities.

[scarlet heron]

After much time in the lab, I decided to breakdown and give knives a shot. I'm not leaving SR84 permanently just looking for a change of pace. Is dash absolutely essential for knives or can I get by with grapple🤔

I've been fooling around in QP and doing OK under live fire but I know this isn't really a true indicator. But I definitely don't regret my purchase.

[pastel sandal]

am i the only one thinking the best heavy set is the doom shield rpg and lock bolt to the flametrower?

[outer flint]

is the lockbolt good now? i havent used it since the new patch

[compact nexus]

Yes

[sand robin]

What did they change about lb

[wind lintel]

everything

[compact nexus]

It works now

[sand robin]

tf is that supposed to mean

[compact nexus]

People are actually locked in place now Lockbolt Launcher

Re-enabled the ability for the Lockbolt to attach to objectives

Increased activation grace period from 0.8s to 1s, making it slightly easier to lock on to targets

Decreased the minimum pull distance from 8m to 6m, giving locked players slightly less room to maneuver

Decreased the maximum pull distance from 10m to 6m, giving locked players less room to maneuver

Increased the pull force of the Lockbolt by 50%, making it slightly harder for players to move beyond the radius of the lock’s chains

Increased the damage the Lockbolt applies to targets from 0 to 5

Added functionality that will disable the Lockbolt’s tethers if the Lockbolt is carried through a Gateway that is outside the maximum pull distance (6m)

[sand robin]

Oh finally I was wondering why it wasnt attaching to objectives, it was still in the description

[grave niche]

I haven't played in 4 seasons. What weapons/gadgets are good for medium

[sand robin]

As of right now its kinda balanced

People use revolver

[compact nexus]

Any of the ars, revolver, pike all good rn

[upbeat kite]

Y’all play pike with scope or nah? I feel like the recoil is obnoxious with scope

[grave niche]

Is the lever action shotgun good

I like it, but I feel like i underperform with that weapon

[polar trout]

Yeah I don't really like how obstructive the irons are tho

[polar trout]

Used to be the best weapon in the game, but nowadays idk with the massive nerfs

[grave niche]

Aw man, I liked it. I probably still use it, but not as often as other guns I like such as the FCAR or revolver

[shadow onyx]

dawg how does rpg not count for the gadget quest

stupid ahh gambling wheel istg if I get anymore duplicates

[winter jay]

people always dismiss this as meta players being meta, but of the meta option is to pick the same boring thing all the time, and abuse certain mechanics, than maybe that shouldn't be the meta. idk.

[harsh moss]

gateway needs a nerf

[compact nexus]

There will always be a meta in the game

The reason why people often call the meta boring is because it becomes overused

https://tenor.com/view/vgc-cats-gif-22471028

[winter jay]

Yea but what ive seen as "meta" as of late has looked like the least interesting options. So far it looks like mesh/cloak. Ill be honest i dont really know what mediums run, but cloak and mesh are the least intersting to me. the ability they provide is essentially "stand still for value" which in a game where the building can collapse around you is crazy. should mention this is opinion, and i really dont enjoy fighting cloak

[plucky spade]

οk that's very true

[harsh moss]

gravity vortex is underrated

[plucky spade]

but then again, c&s meta would be awful

[winter jay]

buff goo gun

[plucky spade]

might not be so effective

[winter jay]

i agree actually

i think even in a nerfed state if i had to go up against cns heavy every game i would scream and cns is my favorite power

its just it looks like the top ranks have no variety, which means the abilities have very clear stengths and weaknesses these guys have figured out, and when every single person is running the same thing with little to no variation it means somethings are too strong and some things are too weak. Im not a game dev and i have none of the data so i dont actually know anything, but i do play the game and when every light i get on my team that is actually competent they are never using dash or grapple. its always cloak. always

[harsh moss]

model needs bnuff

[grave edge]

Man u don't enjoy fighting cloak, I got no choice but to fight man 🥲

[toxic plover]

No

[winter jay]

thats why i dont enjoy it. i dont get a choice

ivisible guy is gonna one shot you fight back, and i dont enjoy being oneshot so

[toxic plover]

Stop making melee pathetic.

Sledge:
Heavy attack 200-> 210
Light attack 115->125

Spear:
Spin 105-> 120 and remove the third spin or make it input based.
65,80,90->85 flat

Riot shield:
Light attack 90->90
Swing damage is okay, swing speed needs to be increased slightly Like 10%. Increase hitbox registration.
Special attack
Blocking is great and all, but there's almost no reason to block when you can passively block so let's lean into that. Be able to slide and jump while blocking. Slide blocking basically makes you unable to take damage unless very neich angles or AOEs.

Duel blades:
Light attack 50×2, 60×2, 70. -> remove third hit, standardize damage to 55×2 per input.
Special attack deflect-> add headshot multiplier, fix deflect hit registration

Sword:
Light attack 74->75
Special attack charge 140->150

Dagger:
Light attack 50->unchanged
Special attack 320->350 if they backstab a heavy they are gonna do the quick melee anyways so it's a small QOL. Also decrease backstab angle by 15° so you cannot be backstabbed with you back against a wall no matter what.

[grave edge]

Nah sword has to be nerfed, Idc if u tell me skill issue, but sword has to be nerfed

[toxic plover]

Why do you think so?

[grave edge]

Ever since the sword has been a bit buffed a bit, I see every third or a whole ass team of lights with 25 kills stacked on em. I'm done with sword just nerf it

And don't ask bout dash, one hit and flies off to god-knows godamn mars and then he lands back and kills me Outta nowhere

No matter how much u dodge and strafe, they getchya anyways with their dash

[polar trout]

Uh sword doesn't need the 150 lunge, rest is fine

Maybe spear to 125 spin

Cuz why the hell not, it'll be fun while it lasts (and I've suffered long enough as a spear)

[toxic plover]

I'm at work I'll reply to y'all when I can

[toxic plover]

Is this quick cash, ranked, or WT?

[grave edge]

Regardless of what mode I played ( honest with ya mate, I'm a casual average with a bit good aim but not as much as a pro player) and I play for fun but seriously I'm done with those sword meta and lights I swear

[toxic plover]

Actually, I think I'm okay with the lunge not being buffed because if they are lunging they are going to do the QM too regardless for the light 1 tap, and having to QM guarantees the kill, but prevents the multihit on other lights

I still feel like the regular attacks should be 74->75 though

[toxic plover]

Spear spin to 125 is nuts, I like it though

[toxic plover]

Honestly just making the spin input based per spin would do so much for it

[grave edge]

I had an option of killing them with full health with the charge and slam and now that gone as well

[winter jay]

the fact that the only way to cancel the spin is like an emote wheel bug is a little gross icl

[gloomy spruce]

Can someone tell me why some specializations and gadgets cost more than others?

[polar trout]

Yeah, it just buff the cancel so you can actually do shit after cancelling it

[polar trout]

I think it's based off of recency, newer is more expensive

[gloomy spruce]

Well that's a shame, because all the fun low-cost gadgets seems to be Light gadgets 😭

[polar trout]

Deffo

[gloomy spruce]

I'm tired of the grind, boss, I wanna make a fun Heavy build that is not CnS

[winter jay]

goo gun, grav cube pick whatever else you want

[gloomy spruce]

Is that for the Cocoon strategy?

[toxic plover]

Try SA, googun, flashbang, barricade, anti gravity cube

[toxic plover]

The cancel should be instant. Spear is as much as a threat as riot shield without the shield rn

[winter jay]

probably i just think goo gun is funny, with the bonus of being pretty versatile. jack of all trades type specilazation

[winter jay]

sledge at least has the burst and terrain destruction going for it, spear has the worst aoe known to man and

[gloomy spruce]

Got any tips for the SA?

[winter jay]

the sa "pump" comes after 4 shots

[toxic plover]

Tap don't hold. Combo goo gun for closing distance and forcing the CQC

[spring grotto]

There will always be a meta, but the last one where famas could be picked up by anyone and they would start climbing just because the gun, that’s terrible

[gloomy spruce]

I guess I could put a barricade and then equip the Googun? I feel like the Barricade is pretty fast to place

Or just keep the googun alway equiped

[winter jay]

thats one of the more egerious examples like it was just overtuned out of the gate, im more talking about how id like some variety at the top levels of play. I just want grapple dash to be as good as cloak. however we achive that is up to embark

[gloomy spruce]

As a new player, I can't lie that it feels very comfortable to use

[toxic plover]

I mean literally shoot them with the goo gun to prevent them from running away while you close distance, and use barricade when in 2V1s

[gloomy spruce]

And what if I'm in an open-area without buildings?

[winter jay]

you can make your own buildings with barricade goo

overexaggeratting but you get the point.

you can make pretty elaborate fortifications with them but your offensive obviously suffers a little.

[toxic plover]

Learn the ideal shapes to make to make protection from high ground shooter, then gtfo of there cause they are gonna frag ya

[spring grotto]

Grapple is the best spec on light, cloak just allows more “breathable play” on that trashy class imo

[gloomy spruce]

What kind of shapes? Is there a video about that on youtube?

[spring grotto]

Yea i agree, but when someone who is good at the game and has experience, hitting the 8ish headshots is super easy and it out dps anything

[toxic plover]

Everything is made it "C"s

The straighter the C the better, but that comes with time

[gloomy spruce]

So, against players with height advantage, its C over my head?

[winter jay]

i disagree. grapple is my favorite one but i dont think its the best. cloak i can kill a guy and just actiavte it and stand still and its like im not even there. grapple i actually have to not be there

[gloomy spruce]

I mean, is not Grapple better for getting better positioning, while Dash will be better in combat because of multiple opportunities to get speed?

[toxic plover]

Yeah, one tack in front of you, And as you try to goo upwards it'll curve towards you. Mostly effective if they are high up, and far away, and you are in an open area and can't flee to a building

[polar trout]

It is

[toxic plover]

Nah

[gloomy spruce]

That gotta require a bit of precision if I don't wanna goo myself, huh...?

[polar trout]

? The attack cancels the second you do it

[gloomy spruce]

Wait, can I goo the top of a barricade, or does it bounce?

[polar trout]

Pretty accurate

[polar trout]

You should be able to. Sounds like a question for the practice range

[gloomy spruce]

Playstation is down

[toxic plover]

Comes with practice. Not too hard, but you'll get better in time like shooting a hoop. Also goo attaches to barricades

[spring grotto]

Grapple for positioning, and in combat it can be nutty.

[spring grotto]

Im back on!

[winter jay]

light is really good at ambushing people. cloak is the best at ambushing people. grapple is alright but if you used it to get in you cant get out, and dash is more of an extended ambush combat thing. cloak is a like a reset button to the enemy knowing you exsist.

[winter jay]

i know all the stuff is good, cloak just seems like the best of both worlds so i see why high level players use it. but when i dont have grapple it feels like im missing a limb. the verticality is unmatched

[gloomy spruce]

Fr? Well nice. Expected it to be a big ddos of 21 days

[toxic plover]

Back to the goo gun thing, to secure a window or door you only need two goo tacks diagonal of each other on the corners of the entrance

[polar trout]

I'll test it in a few, then

[toxic plover]

Also you have to time your goo tacks so when a goo lock breaks they are instantly goo locked again

[gloomy spruce]

You mean when I trap enemies in Goo?

[toxic plover]

Yessss

[polar trout]

shot from the lil tower on the right to the top edge of the barricade

[keen turtle]

are you talking about the goo gun here?

[gloomy spruce]

Possibly?

[toxic plover]

Yes

[keen turtle]

the C to block high ground is smart. I make goo stalagmites for even ground areas. Goo bridges of course. I've also started using it to climb by shooting and climbing a single blob. Jump backwards and climb the goo you just shot. Have any other goo tech?

[toxic plover]

Stalagmites end up getting me killed cause I only rock sledgehammer. Also I find it's straight up more efficient to goo bridge than to tack climb, even the 5 story building on skyway, you'd be surprised how vertical it can be and it'll let you climb.

[keen turtle]

I also only rock the sledge hammer. It's not something I do all the time but I find the pillars break LoS so I can stall/bait

[toxic plover]

Oh I see. I HAVE to run goo grenade for all loadout tbh

[toxic plover]

You can even goo bridge to a suspended structure FROM THE GROUND

[keen turtle]

assaulting from a goo bridge connected to a suspended balloon is great

[toxic plover]

Ngl, I don't care what Ekazo calls it. He says a blob is a Lego but goo is more like welding. One blob is a tack, a line is a bead

[toxic plover]

Never thought about that, sounds funny af

[keen turtle]

Lego doesn't make much sense to me since goo can be connected from any direction. I like tack and bead as well

[toxic plover]

That's a good point you make. We should play sometime

[shadow onyx]

What do you guys consider to be the meta team comp for ranked

[toxic plover]

DB invis light, SA heavy with winch, pike medium heal beam

[plush harbor]

cloak lh1 + famas heal beam + sa12/shak mesh

[late sequoia]

TBH, aiming for head with pike (a literal "designated MARKSMAN rifle" no less) is counter-intuitively pretty pointless given how many missed shots and lower DPS/TTKs you'll have on any target except one locked to his task (IE, reviving or last-second cashout steal attempt).

And it's pathetic mag to reload speed ratio makes it a shit option in general.

It would be worthwhile if it had either:

A 2x headshot multiplier like similar weapons (revolver, with it's similarly bad mag to reload ratio, or LH1 with it's similar damage model... even though LH1 also gets WAY more damage per mag better fire rate, better accuracy, and better reload).

OR, A 2s reload like the FCAR (effectively the same damage/kills per mag).

But as-is, it's just barely more than a throw take.

[compact nexus]

Pike is solid af rn after the damage buff

[shadow onyx]

pike is really good rn

[late sequoia]

What kind of standing-still low movement enemies are you guys fighting against and how can I get in on this action of enemies practically throwing every match I play with the pike then?

Because if you're up against heavies or a light who remotely knows what to do, pike's virtually a throw pick.

It can't hipfire worth a damn, it can't ADS well in the ranges it WOULD be good at (no 1x non-vision blocking red dot instead of massive crappy irons), and it's reload is so trash compared to it's damage it can barely drop a heavy with above-average aim.

[compact nexus]

Have you used it since the buff all classes receive one less shot to kill

Yeah im using it again rn the pike rocks atm

[sand monolith]

pike is the best weapon on medium rn lmao

[late sequoia]

I have, it's really just meh with that fire rate and recoil (especially the recoil).
Same headshot TTKs against heavy/medium (was 3.5 shots to head, now 3.3 shots to head), same head body body requirement against lights (if a light lets you land 2 head shots at any range back to back, they have no clue how to play light) so that's effectively the same.

Only thing that got marginally better is pike body against mediums , but it's always been pretty trash at that and now it's just "okay". TTKs against heavy is too slow to win anything they won't run from, and anything they'll run from they will have PLENTY of time to survive unless someone else DRASTICALLY cut their health down for you ahead of time so that's a total moot point.

[compact nexus]

Bro body ttks got better across the board what are you on about

[late sequoia]

Best rusty needle in the parking lot is still not a good metric to judge your medical supplies by...

[sand monolith]

pike and cerberus are both strong weapons acros the entire game

[compact nexus]

Nah cerb is just mid

[sand monolith]

its not as strong as pike but its good

[compact nexus]

Promoted from super shit status to mid good job cerberus

[late sequoia]

on paper, against non-moving targets, yes... oh, and only if you exclude the ENTIRE light's weapon list except MAYBE the dagger.

[late sequoia]

Same for the pike, except less reliable because firing it advertises you as a free kill to every shotgun, melee, and light in the game.

[sand monolith]

it destroys lights

[compact nexus]

Bro you 3 shot lights they die extremely fast

Atp youre just yapping

[toxic plover]

So long as Cerberus and SH1000 exist, melee will suffer. That's why I say...

Stop making melee pathetic.

Sledge:
Heavy attack 200-> 210
Light attack 115->125

Spear:
Spin 105-> 120 and remove the third spin or make it input based.
65,80,90->85 flat

Riot shield:
Light attack 90->90
Swing damage is okay, swing speed needs to be increased slightly Like 10%. Increase hitbox registration.
Special attack
Blocking is great and all, but there's almost no reason to block when you can passively block so let's lean into that. Be able to slide and jump while blocking. Slide blocking basically makes you unable to take damage unless very neich angles or AOEs.

Duel blades:
Light attack 50×2, 60×2, 70. -> remove third hit, standardize damage to 55×2 per input.
Special attack deflect-> add headshot multiplier, fix deflect hit registration

Sword:
Light attack 74->75
Special attack charge 140->145

Dagger:
Light attack 50->unchanged
Special attack 320->350 if they backstab a heavy they are gonna do the quick melee anyways so it's a small QOL. Also decrease backstab angle by 15° so you cannot be backstabbed with you back against a wall no matter what.

[late sequoia]

Ones who stand still and don't know how to ADAD strafe spam (or press dash).

[sand monolith]

aim

[compact nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/never-cook-again-never-cook-cook-never-goku-gif-3962474524105307442

[sand monolith]

dash doesnt give iframes you can still hit them

[late sequoia]

what kinda aimbot (or playing on controller with it's blatantly OP aim assist) are you using?

[compact nexus]

Oomfie you just have a skill issue

[sand monolith]

i have mid tier aim lol a good amount of people can track dash. thats why its useless in high elo

[compact nexus]

Last time I checked aim assist isnt even that strong in the finals

[sand monolith]

its not

[late sequoia]

I can hit stuff up close just fine with hipfire, but you can't hipfire that thing and hit a heavy at 2m it's so ass.

Literally 3x the hipfire CoF as an AR.

[sand monolith]

dont hipfire

[compact nexus]

Have you considered playing range with the marksman rifle

[late sequoia]

half screen obscured by massive ironsights that might as well be a stopsign glued to the front blockign your face with a pinhole to fire through, or zoom in and one strafe left then right and they've already gone behind you.

[sand monolith]

unscope

idk no offense this is a skill issue i think

[compact nexus]

Bro pike irons are not that bad I had very little problems with targets at long and close range with it

[late sequoia]

you literally said don't unscope

[sand monolith]

i said dont hipfire

[late sequoia]

How TF do you hipfire scoped?!?!

[sand monolith]

if they are behind you, unscope, turn, and scope again

[shadow onyx]

lowkey unscoping with all weapons is a good habit

[late sequoia]

You're dead by that point, unless you're fighting vegetables.

[toxic plover]

I'm cooking with these melee changes and nobody could tell me otherwise

[compact nexus]

Fun fact the majority of the finals players are vegetables

[late sequoia]

Not the ones I play against.
Damn, the majority of the guys I get matched against have like +70% accuracy while magdumping an M11 at 15-20m, and 20-30% of the mag hits the head!

[sand monolith]

the pike is dominating top ranked

[late sequoia]

Meanwhile, half my team can't land 20% if their lives depend on it.

[compact nexus]

Well yes 15-20m is prime m11 spray range

[toxic plover]

I almost always win a 2v1. But I play sledge so ..

Ah excuse me.

I'm GOOD with sledge

[compact nexus]

Cool did you want a cookie or something

[late sequoia]

This is the level of team mates I often get paired against on a GOOD run.

[compact nexus]

Bro youre playing ps just sit on the side and go for picks if youre that concerned about close range engagements (which is already looks like you do cause your obj score is horrid)

[sand monolith]

bro posted powershift

[toxic plover]

I'll tear you up minti

[late sequoia]

Imagine thinking anything but 1v1 is a good metric for judging the game...

[sand monolith]

nobody said that

most people judge balance by cashout

[late sequoia]

Ah yes, the 3rd party machine, where a guy with a toothpick could look like a badass by just waiting for two teams to fight and jumping in at the right time in the right place.

[compact nexus]

Me to you (youre the shirt)

[sand monolith]

yes the game is balanced around cashout, it makes sense to use it for judging the balancing of the game

[compact nexus]

Cashout is the main mode of the finals, balancing is done around cashout whether you like it or not lol

[late sequoia]

It's not a viable metric though, the best tactics in multi-team fights are ones where you intentionally do as little as possible except at the last second.

[toxic plover]

You want to wear me? Kinda gay

[sand monolith]

That’s not really how cashout plays at all

Not since season 3

[late sequoia]

The entire scientific and mathematics communities cringe at this.

[sand monolith]

Dude 💀

[late sequoia]

Terminal would be the logical choice to balance around.
Having more than one party attacking one party is like just throwing every chemical in a mix and wondering why you can't figure out which one is the one that causes cancer, instead of testing them one at a time.

[sand monolith]

That has to be rage bait

[toxic plover]

Me to you. You are the white hair twink

[compact nexus]

Terminal is a shit mode lol

[sand monolith]

TA blows shit and nobody likes it

Almost killed the game in s3 lol

[compact nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/hammer-gif-3284201032904258120

[toxic plover]

You just wait until I'm off work...Alex

[compact nexus]

WHO THE FUCK IS JOSHUA TAKE YOUR MEDS

[toxic plover]

Who said Joshua?

[shadow onyx]

yeah lol I'm not ruby but all the ruby players I see on videos and stuff are running pike

[compact nexus]

Fair game dorkupine....

[shadow onyx]

nah just remove terminal atp

[toxic plover]

Terminal attack would be better with healing items on the map

[compact nexus]

Nah terminal attack would be better with revives and uncapped healing, though it still wouldnt be that good

[late sequoia]

Ruby players represent the top what, 0.2% of the playerbase though?

If we balanced all games off the top end, every game would be a carbon copy of Quake.

[compact nexus]

The top players run it cause its good

[late sequoia]

on paper, yes.
In the hands of the people that don't represent the playerbase... yes.

[toxic plover]

Melee needs buffs all around

[compact nexus]

My sister in christ you being bad with the pike doesnt make the pike bad

[toxic plover]

Slemge

Slerge hmmer

[late sequoia]

TBH, light's dash combined with the thrust makes the sword an exceptionally good weapon.

[sand monolith]

Pike is running diamond and high plat rn. Which is a very large amount of players

And not even a particularly high skill floor

[toxic plover]

If the light doesn't waste his first dash to close distance and the second one to hit yeah.

[compact nexus]

Sword and sledge are both viable at diamond depending on the map lmao

[toxic plover]

I want to get to ruby

[compact nexus]

Have fun grinding

[toxic plover]

Yeah right

[vestal wagon]

Please add a Stim shot like gadget in for Lights. (“Energy Drink” & you can use the drinking animation alr implemented) The initial burst when activated can regen 30-50% health at animation end & slowly regens the remaining health

[shut bane]

https://tenor.com/view/flashbang-gif-17983065685674933488

[spiral wing]

I wish we had like a healing grenade for mediums that does like 75-125 healing instead of just having healing beam for that, I miss the Lunar New Year world tour : (

[shut bane]

Idk, the healing barrels seemed kinda insane lol

[unborn frigate]

new med spec idea

recon drone

player controlled drone
flys like spectator
has 150?hp
different cooldown lengths eg 1s if returned no dmg 5s if returned with dmg 8s if just stop using without returning 15s if fully destroyed (cooldown lengths would be more balanced)

can ping while controlling drone
players body is using a tablet when you look at them and player can be damaged
idk how fast it would go i think a bit faster than a light (no dashes)
doesnt detect
makes a medium level noise
can activate mines

[alpine eagle]

Impact nades that deal low player damage but high structure damage could be cool

[placid ruin]

hear me out, a FINAL progression tier for weapons and equipment, mirroring the final tier for badges. you can make the xp requirement like 500,000 or something insane.

[chilly badge]

I'm having a ton of fun with it. It is punishing if you miss due to long cooldown, but so much fun now.

[kind pumice]

Has sledgehammer swing speed been nerfed? Feels slower for some reason.

[obsidian heron]

I havent played in forever before ruby was a thing, whats the meta these days and what guns should I be using

[kind pumice]

Sledgehammer meta

[obsidian heron]

nah, I played med peaked p1 playing fcar

[kind pumice]

Trust me

[obsidian heron]

fcar still good?

[kind pumice]

I'd say so

[obsidian heron]

whats best on med akm or still fcar

[kind pumice]

Honestly I'm a akm normal but fcar is most likely better if you hit with most of the magazine.

[chilly badge]

Between ak and FCar I would go with FCar myself, but which one you preffer.

[obsidian heron]

I hit my shots dw

[kind pumice]

Yeah AKM is pretty forgiving. Fcar is better in cqc anyway.

[chilly badge]

Cerberus and Pike got buffs last patch, but not sure if for ranked play.

[obsidian heron]

idek what those are

[kind pumice]

I like cerberus but you really gotta get used to that range.

[chilly badge]

New guns added after S1

[kind pumice]

^

[chilly badge]

Pike shreds atm imo, but harder to use than the assault rifles.

Cerberus strong, but short range shotty.

[obsidian heron]

ranked what is seen more?

[ebon bolt]

Any R .357 enjoyers?

[kind pumice]

Yes

[chilly badge]

I think Model was strongest, but it got nerfed pretty hard last patch

[kind pumice]

R.357 should get better iron sights on "default" skins.

[obsidian heron]

okay thanks guys

[kind pumice]

I got snub nose skin and it's way better, idk if placebo but I think it's better.

[obsidian heron]

so basically in 3 seasons the meta hasnt changed at all for medium 😭

[kind pumice]

[obsidian heron]

too funny

[spring grotto]

Yupp, whenever i play light, i usually play just like i do as a demat med, staying just outside of the fight till i can go in and catch em with their pants down trying to thirst my teammates

[spring grotto]

TA is the complete opposite of what this game is tho. Balancing should be done around a HML team core, and any variations being “off meta” or “niche”

[ashen hawk]

theres something especialy wrong with spear and dagger

[ashen hawk]

"Wait, cloak is the best light specialization? Embark, thats too OP"

[shadow onyx]

We're not talking about balance. Pike is good.

[lament vortex]

Ohh sheeesh

[lament vortex]

Does that exist ?

[lament vortex]

@wispy zodiac

[keen turtle]

The repositioning just cant be beat. Switching angles mid-fight is fun

[shell sonnet]

the downsides im thinking off are the use cases they dont have compared to the other options
so, no breaching unlike explosive mine/rpg, no area denial/utility

thing about frags is, being instant is both upside and downside
if you hit someone, they take all this damage immidiatly (where they would normally need to stand in aoe for multiple seconds otherwise)
but it also means that, if they dodge it, they can be back in position a second or two after
that is, if they get to dodge it
thats the part i think frags are unbalanced, when you can see them and they get covered by tons of noise, so its unreasonable to assume anybody would have been able to dodge it
it takes away healthy skill expression
they should make a high pitched noise of like metal hitting metal whenever the frag hits the floor/wall, something you can hear through everything, so that you get at least a decent chance to avoid it

as for you other points, anything stacked can be broken
6 frags with 894 damage is A LOT (mind you its still unlikely everything is going to hit)

but it wouldn't be less broken to spam an endless amount of mines and making the cashout completely inaccessable
shooting 3 rpgs at the same person and just winning outright
flushing half a building with gas spam

thats also broken, just in a different way

[north swallow]

Add a throwing axe for medium, make it have both a melee attack and a slow ranged fire

[sage crown]

revert heal beam and defib back to season 3 please (:

[sour sonnet]

how does a gateway work bc everytime i throw it it disconnects

[wary adder]

the gateway has 100m of range between the gateway points

[sour sonnet]

yea but even thoug it disconnects whitin 10 meters

[wary adder]

mann that is sad

[sour sonnet]

does it need to be above the ground?

[wary adder]

i think?

[sour sonnet]

strange

[wary adder]

strange indeed

[winter jay]

70

[burnt flame]

is it just me or is pike just a worse revolver? it just does less damage with the same movement inaccuracy?

[polar trout]

It's 70

[polar trout]

Holy shit a mastery skin past triangle twinkle that I'll actually use

[winter jay]

is this real

[polar trout]

No, just an idea.

[winter jay]

dang

the mastery skins are kind of bad this would be an actual good one

[polar trout]

Yep

[burnt flame]

anyway @bright urchin if u do get kovaaks or aimlabs id be happy to give u recommendations on exercises. keep in mind kovaaks has far more exercises available

[polar trout]

Like why do ugly ass animal patterns

Ngl nothing past triangle twinkle is worth, triangle twinkle 🔛🔝

[polar trout]

Waaaaaaay better ranged performance, (lil more than) double the ammunition, actual magnifying scope

Yeah pike is way better

[burnt flame]

oh thank you

that makes sense i guess i just hating on it bc of it's close range perforamnce

[proven scaffold]

Can you not change the weapons bindings to be the wheel using r1 on ps5 anymore???

[plucky spade]

Sword players what is better, alt attack quick melee primary attack or alt attack primary attack quick melee?

[plush harbor]

m1 based phantomstrike combo

[ashen hawk]

@hollow widget no lol

[hollow widget]

it does

[ashen hawk]

alr mate whatev u wanna tell urself

@misty relic clearly the numbers were exaggeration, its laughable that u coudnt even begin to understand that
and yeah get this: if u think theyre bs and all the lights think their bs that doesnt mean their nonsense. lmfao

[misty relic]

okay point being your point is invalid because instead of bothering to use valid scenarios you used a strawman fallacy of "exagerated" numbers.

Want people to take your seriously? Use actual facts instead of making stuff up because your mad about dieing to a light.

[ashen hawk]

@misty relic u must understand ur issue. u are clearly too biased for lights. ik its hard to imagine ur class weaker and ik u get the feeling of not being able to win so u defend ur class like hell from nerfs, but this going nowhere

[misty relic]

What your going on about is literally nonsense. Here's what non nonsense sounds like. Lights have the highest ttk vs other lights.

[ashen hawk]

Plus kid i never saw u use real facts. what were ur facts? u want me to believe u? stop being so one-sided. maybe ull understand the bigger world

[misty relic]

Or you have 3 dashes or heavy has a shield, see things that aren't biased opinions.

[ashen hawk]

dash is a die hard counter to shield. but dash isnt even op in any way. wtf did i ever say that

[misty relic]

Anyways this is the weapon and gadget channel so what weapon do you want to discuss.

[ashen hawk]

Um how to improve 93r idk. or if it needs improvement cuz it seriously underused

[misty relic]

Wait you want the 93r improved? Seriously that's gotta be /s it feels so good rn.

[restive plover]

The buff was supposed to give it 28 damage but they pussied out at the last second and left it at 26.

[misty relic]

Oh it's been feeling good imo

[restive plover]

It's still categorically worse than the famas, even post famas nerf. Except it's a gun on the pick class and not the support.

The sole exception is light on light violence but that's not really where light weapons need help.

[winter jay]

i want 24 in mag

[misty relic]

If it gets buffed it'll be every where and feedback will want it nerfed. 24 in the mag would be nice then again give the v9s it's 24 back too

[burnt flame]

is turning the pike into iron sights instead of scope fine

i feel like im losing too many close range battles

[winter jay]

i havent gotten to try irons yet, but crouching helps with accuracy in close range

[restive plover]

Just don't hipfire with pike, ever.

[winter jay]

crouch close range hipfire isnt awful, but its kinda last resort

[burnt flame]

yeah thats the thing. the scope is kinda hard to move with since it's blocking a third of my screen

[weak kernel]

my rule of thumb in this game in general is just not hipfiring whenever possible unless you're using a gun that explicitly wants you to hipfire like a projectile or a shotgun. it's a (relatively) high TTK game, you want to guarantee shots land.

pike is fine up close if you're ADSing and your mouse sensitivity is such that you can comfortably aim even while zoomed in. there's visual recoil but it's visual recoil, you can feel it out

[winter jay]

i mean when i ads it zooms and i dont really want that in close range ngl

[weak kernel]

it's honestly a pretty mild inconvenience when you're talking about a gun like that which competes well at long and close range (as long as you ADS)

tracking targets can be hard up close with the scope and the kick but at that range you can do it by feel

it's probably more of a problem if you play on controller though

[compact nexus]

The irons arent horrible so yeah do it if you want 1x

Plus you wont have glint

[burnt flame]

ok good input, thank you

[placid ruin]

Fan made

[quartz juniper]

Great, but instead of bringing noobs into the game without defibs and healing beams, you decided to change it to turret and having to buy defibs, so either the noobs have to work there way to that loadout and get used to another loadout, which half the time people just stay with what they are used to which is gonna be the starting loadout. So EMBARK, @reachthefinals , BRING BACK STARTING THE GAME WITH HEALING BEAM AND DEFIBS UNLOCKED AND EQUIPPED, WE CANT HAVE PEOPLE THINKING NO DEFIBS AND NOT AT ALL USING HEALS IS HOW ITS DONE BECAUSE THEY WILL EITHER LEAVE THE GAME, GET GOOD AT THE GAME AND STILL BE A BAD TEAMMATE WITHOUT DEFIBS AND HEALING BEAM, OR LEARN AND ADAPT AND ADD THAT TO LOADOUT. Countless times i have had to instruct noobs that defibs and healing beam are even a thing, your just hurting yourself at this point EMBARK. ( This was addressing the video, reach the finals just posted )

https://youtube.com/shorts/SRltTbyPi_c?si=aj42gDz1n0yX0H0d

Please repost, embark needs to enable healing beam and defibs as starting loadout for noobs again or all of us solos are gonna suffer forever

[winter jay]

the defib maybe, but healing beam is not enjoyable to use. its good but not really as "interactive" as turret. also i think they want medium to be a utility support type guy than a true healer

[wind lintel]

noobs don't use healing beam even when it's equipped

[crisp lintel]

I loved using the healing beam when I first started, felt like I was needed 😂

But on another note, when are there going to be Emerald, Dimond, or Ruby Throwing knives 😎 I need these

[shadow onyx]

Are there any good comps besides HML

[toxic plover]

So I have a proposal for you guys

[crisp lintel]

Let's hear it

[toxic plover]

Reduce healbeam from 40hps to 30hps but increase range to 30m and double the battery life. HB now passes through walls

[crisp lintel]

Ild be down