💣┇weapons-gadgets

[wind lintel]

one is meant to do one thing, the other is meant to do something completely different (they aren't really comparable)

[restive plover]

Mines are weak in general but explosive mines are particularly bad. Frag is an easy pick over them.

[uneven kindle]

110 damage stationary blinking and moderately loud mine vs 149 damage timed, quiet and low visibility throwable, truly a dilemma of all time

[jade creek]

JuSt PlAcE tHeM aRoUnD CoRnErS

[uneven kindle]

Gas and pyro mines can at least block off choke points and doorways with their effect even for a short while if they have pyro/smoke in hand, explosive mines don't do jack when spotted and shot.

Best use I found for the explosive mines is laying them in spots where people are likely to take cover around the cashout when damaged

That's when they'll least expect and be careful of a mine

It also works while being chased, like any other mine

[late sequoia]

Mines should blink OR make sound, not both.

[remote axle]

is the gateway for the light worth it?

[keen raven]

bring back one shot mines

[kind pumice]

One shot

[keen raven]

yeah they used to one shot lights

and you chould hold 2

[remote axle]

whats better in ranked dash or grapple?

[kind pumice]

C4 and explosive mine can one shot medium but you're unfortunately using two slots

[keen raven]

witch one goes with the loadout your running

[kind pumice]

^

[remote axle]

for the m11

[keen raven]

whats type of gun is it?

[remote axle]

grenade goo grenade and breach charge

[keen raven]

nobody remembers letters and numbers

[kind pumice]

If you're really good with grapple I think you can get more plays than dash

[remote axle]

little smg for light

[keen raven]

ah the uzi yeah id go with grapple

expecialy to get to places you wanna breach

[remote axle]

cool good to know

thanks

[kind pumice]

You can also use goo to perch on ceilings/walls

[keen raven]

took me a minuet to figure out what you ment by this

[kind pumice]

Yeah if you stack them they can one shot but I only use that combo for my sledgehammer winch claw build

[keen raven]

i like sledge winch rpg anti grav and bubble

[kind pumice]

Yeah that's pretty nice, anti grav is underrated

[outer fiber]

Yeah I agree with this

Grapple lights usually get away from me more than dash lights do

[remote axle]

i find medium boring do you have a loadout that you find fun

[verbal mantle]

Depends how good your team coordination is, being able to shunt your entire team 2 buildings over can be super powerful.

10sec vault to cashout teleports are plenty possible and provided your team is on board can significantly increase your win rate.

However, as a movement tech by itself that you are just using to say... get on a building, yeah it's not great. More than any other tool in the game gateway needs strategy.

[ocean axle]

Is there somewhere written the damages of each grenade?

To compare frag, gaz and pyro

And maybe the mines in comparison as well?

[kind pumice]

You can try the community wiki but I dont know how accurate

It tells you all sorts of other properties of the frag grenade so I would suppose its pretty accurate.

[ocean axle]

Awesome, will give it a try, thanks!

[ocean axle]

They are on there, thanks!

[golden trench]

sword is really op with dash, gravity vortex, goo grande for cover in the open and a Pyro or Gas grenade for dealing bulk damage and going in and cleaning up after. this kit is also effective with holding point.

I would say stun gun over gravity vortex if not for the gravity vortex very short recharge timer

gravity vortex has this really good side ability when it ends it cancels out the holding y or pc holding buttion to take point when it drops even if your right beside it due to the finals dropping mechanic on points.

[winter jay]

cerberus, demat, zip, mine and goo. can trade mine for frag/zip for bounce
its just prefrence

[mighty summit]

What’s best strategy for getting the challenge complete of “kill enemy with a gadget 30m away”

[unborn frigate]

probably mines, guardian turrets, or anything else that stays forever/until you respawn and can kill enemys

[green cove]

yo

yi

j

jk

j

[keen raven]

google. translate this to english^

[hallow current]

Any healing barrel videos?

[misty relic]

Also not the fandom, as far as i know the fandom has been outdated for ages. Oh google brings up the actual wiki as the first result now that's huge!

[buoyant arch]

kinda bummed out that Heavy got a powerhouse of a weapon in the ak 50 but meanwhile the medium got an ok weapon and light got nerfs adn no new toys

[shut bane]

Medium got a great weapon wdym

I rock the Cerberus more than the Shak 50 personally

[cunning kettle]

cerberus has a little dwarf inside that rolls a d20 and if you roll a nat20 you proc fire

[shut bane]

Fire is pretty much a guaranteed proc if you can place the spread well

[cunning kettle]

the spread pattern is more random than the memes i send in main chat

[shut bane]

Unless you think you’re getting model type range on a semi automatic triple barrel shotgun

[cunning kettle]

i dont want more range i want more consistent fire

[shut bane]

It’s so easy to proc though I dunt understand

[cunning kettle]

i dont play cerb for the shotgun i play it for the fire

and i dont get fire half the time

I have to barrel stuff to get fire consistently

[shut bane]

The fire procs after a certain amount of pellets lands in a short period of time If you miss most of your pellets you’ll need to proc it with the next shot or two

Spread will be wider than some of the other shotties like matter and model but that’s why you get three whole tries

Treat it more like lights double barrel and you’ll see it work out much every time

[cunning kettle]

3 tries isnt enough when a heavy is spraying me down and it takes forever to reload

Plus i dont have dash to get in barrel stuffing range

[shut bane]

Heavies require you to hit all three shots in order to get them down in a single reload and it does kill them faster than model does ah it’s intended range

[cunning kettle]

it cant even 1-mag heavy without its fire

[shut bane]

Movement is something you need to have down even as a medium in order to get close enough so things like demat and other movement gadgets are really useful

Yeah but the fire is guaranteed to kill if you land all your spreads on a single heavy

[cunning kettle]

ill let this image speak for itself

[shut bane]

Dawg how far are you trying to hit people from with it

10 meters? Bruh

[cunning kettle]

dawg if i get close im gonna get charge n slammed or winched into a sledge or sa-1216

[shut bane]

Well then just don’t rock any shotgun for that matter then lol

[cunning kettle]

with the light shotguns i can use specs and gadgets to maximize my survival
with model i can shoot from reasonable range and have enought distance that i can get cover or demat away

[shut bane]

It’s a trade off you’re making with Cerberus, much faster burst damage for less range

[cunning kettle]

doesnt it have the same firerate as the sh1900

which can 2-tap heavy consistently

also the damage isnt even that fast considering how the raw damage is less than model and how fire is DOT

[shut bane]

Yes but it has an extra round making it more forgiving than the sh1900

[cunning kettle]

more forgiving huh

[shut bane]

Idk man, sounds to me like you just can’t let go of model, makes sense as it is just an easier weapon

[cunning kettle]

almost a whole second more reload and you dont have dash

[shut bane]

No, you have demat instead

[cunning kettle]

i havent played model since a week or so after the nerf

[cunning kettle]

demat is quite slow to take out, demat a wall, and remat that wall to get to safety

cerberus is just objectively worse than model

no range, relies on inconsistent DOT effect to 1-mag a heavy, and has a slow reload

[shut bane]

It’s got it’s own learning curve unlike model, I prefer it personally but then what should be done with it then

More range surely

[cunning kettle]

more consistent fire

at least make its niche fun to use

[shut bane]

Dawg I don’t know how you aren’t getting the fire to proc honestly

[cunning kettle]

also make the fire refresh if you proc it while they are already on fire

[shut bane]

Stacking fire procs? So long as they just revert the thing if it ever gets out of hand

[cunning kettle]

not really stacking, just making it refresh

if i proc fire on my third shot i better get my fire

[shut bane]

It already does refresh if you hit all the pellets but if what you want is guaranteed fire procs for each pellet then they would probably need to limit the fire duration based on range

[cunning kettle]

last i checked the fire damage doesnt refresh if you hit them while they are on fire

[shut bane]

It refreshes the fire duration, again you just need to hit the spread again, or at least have it add up from the last shot

If you hit half of the spread but don’t set them on fire you will proc it once you hit another half on the second shot

[cunning kettle]

olly molly

guess i was wrong, according to appoh it does refresh the dot timer if you proc it again

still inconsistent tho

[shut bane]

It’s just not something you need to expect range from, if you can move around as a medium its a very dependable shotty

[cunning kettle]

this thing is reload heaven

3.1s and a 40-50 over 324 per mag

[shut bane]

Honestly bro, just equip an akm

[cunning kettle]

but i want my fire shotgun to set them on fire

[shut bane]

Flamethrower

[cunning kettle]

its like telling someone to just use m60 when they want to use flamethrower

[shut bane]

Throw a pyro grenade and pretend your model set them on fire

[plucky spade]

True that

[late sequoia]

GOD, that's accurate.
I swear, the fire does jack shit 99% of the time (like, ONE tick of fire damage after landing all pellets from all 3 shots on a heavy), then at random you'll get like 5 ticks of damage landing half the pellets of a single shot on a light.

[late sequoia]

Whether you land one pellet or all 9, it should apply a decent amount of fire damage.
IE, 5 ticks of 5 damage each.

Shooting the target again re-applies the timer

Wish DBs weren't such utter trash.

[royal thicket]

Both of mediums melee weapons in general ngl

[late sequoia]

yeah, they're total dogsht

if the shield had a double-time sprint so you could close distance or a stun baton or double damage per hit, it'd be decent.

DBs should have 200% damage on reflected bullets so it can't be cheesed just by shooting the legs.

[atomic niche]

the FAMAS compared to the PIKE-556. honesly the pike kinda sucks, i love the gun but man it just underperforms so bad

[late sequoia]

Yeah, pre-nerf pike was on par with FAMAS, but now it's just ass.

[atomic niche]

it really deserves better

[late sequoia]

half the hipfire inaccuracy would fix it pretty well

[atomic niche]

close combat really does blow with it. and ranged combat only kinda works if you can guarantee that no one is going to sneak up on you, even then it still takes forever to punch a few through someone. like i said, i love the gun but man it just... sucks

rant post. i used the pike for well over 12 matches

(un)professional opinion- :(

[late sequoia]

I really like R6S' idea for shield combat.
Much more modern tactics, and less bronze-age wooden shield.

Pistol in one hand, shield in the other.
You can hipfire with the shield defending you almost fully, and ADS only covers the lower half of your body.

FCAR really needs to be fixed, it's been over-nerfed for what, almost a year now?

Lower damage OR "literal worst recoil of all ARs", not both.

TBH, I still want it to be a slower firing but better damage falloff (otherwise stat identical) 1:1 version of the light's V9S.

Case in point

[plain wasp]

You can't do that anymore I don't think

Hipfire behind shield on r6

[mortal nebula]

tried using all mines and grenade to "kill enemy with a gadget 30m away" is the quest bug?

[sage citrus]

The CL-40 didn't need any nerfs, if anything the spear did.

Plus the 1887 and dual Desert eagles are the most fun to use.

[pearl falcon]

Best medium loadout?

[spring grotto]

Famas/Fcar/Model/Revo-
Demat/Healbeam-
Pad/Zip/Defib/Glitchmine/GooNade/ProxSensor-

Just pick what your good with, toss gadgets and a gun in your reserve. If you got double heavy go double movement. Anything else is just preference. Best way to win with medium is to play together and use your gadgets to position yourself better.

[ashen hawk]

"Oh mY gOD a GUn tHaT aLSO blOcKS, OH MY GOD THATS SO OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[vestal cloak]

I hope the cerb gets a fire proc buff at some point. I feel that if it could proc the fire effect more reliably at range it would be an excellent harassment tool.

I would honestly prefer less pellet damage for way more fire damage over time.

[vestal cloak]

Disagree, I think every gun should just get more recoil across the board

The fcar is the only gun that's kept it's recoil basically from the beginning. Because every gun has basically no recoil, and now visual recoil was finally fixed, you get beamed across the map constantly.

[vestal cloak]

The pike is the only gun with visual recoil on its sight still. Unusable tbh

[runic night]

Wow

[woeful agate]

i think a simple fix to the fire proc and very unreliable damage is to increase number of pellets while decreasing damage/pellet. same damage, but now each shot is more likely to land a similar number of pellets, making it easier to land chip damage at mid range and proc fire

[royal thicket]

Sounds like an actually cool fix for the shield

[vestal cloak]

That might work tbh, and it'd look neat

[pulsar vector]

hi

[woeful agate]

hi

[woeful agate]

i think the main reason for shield using a baton instead of a pistol is because trying to fight someone at range that can have a shield almost always up can be extremely frustrating. r6 manages to pull it off because they have so many counters to shields like melee to expose the shield user, impact grenades on defense, and a 1-shot kill mechanic that makes it much easier to deal with a shield user.

i think exposing more of the body while ADSed, keeping feet exposed, and relatively poor hipfire compared to other pistols could make this fit into the game while not being as frustrating as riot shields in some other games. i think the pistol would have to be something with a relatively small mag size so you can't just spam shots, but pretty good recoil control especially when ADS - something like a 1911 is what im thinking

[storm oyster]

i like that macuahuitl skin a lot

sword

yes

[ornate juniper]

Holy crap do people rly study such things?

[royal thicket]

Before I called the idea cool but I changed my mind. The problem is not the riot shield but mediums kit in general. There is no gap closing tool whatsoever and DBs suffer just as much as the shield. So although I agree that giving the shield a trash pistol would solve one issue, tis one's not the main problem. When you look at https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1253147941472960666 you realize that the main issues riot shield has are it's bugs. And trust me there is a countless amount of them and Embark does not give two shits about it

[keen raven]

Oh Do i got some bad news about r6 shields

[fleet brook]

It was broken af

Everyone besides sheild players hated it and it felt super oppressive

[sage citrus]

FCAR.

[keen raven]

What you enjoy useing

[sacred cypress]

Are we getting any community events this season fir the season 5 weapons

[lyric blaze]

this is my idea to give a reason to have defibrillators immediately lose a charge (even if missed)
Buff: Defib damage onto opponents, literally enough to kill lights
has anyone killed a light with defibs when they aren't standing around? therefore this is fair.

[keen raven]

counterpoint. shoot them.

[mellow musk]

Defib deals 50 damage

I have gotten defib kills

[deep grove]

counterpoint: light mains will cry up a hurricane because they can be outmaneuvered to get defib killed. Do you wanna deal with hearing that every day here and on plebbit?

[dapper mountain]

what about a heavy specialty that repairs walls like the demat

[charred beacon]

counterpoint: having something that can instakill one singular class in a competitive fps game will make that class essentially useless, not even rpg kills lights in one shot, only thing that can is a pixel perfect 150dmg nade and if you're that much of a kobe then props to you

[keen raven]

May i introduce the goo gun

[keen raven]

Sledgehammer.

Sniper headshot

Close range light shotgun

[placid slate]

reddit mfs are the ones complaining about lights, theyd immediately jump on anyone that complained about a defib kill

[charred beacon]

Sledgehammer I can agree with because it's actually just a cone of death but sniper headshot needs actual accuracy and close range light shotgun can be avoided rather easily I feel

[keen raven]

Explosive mine and c4

[placid slate]

mine does 100

[keen raven]

Together I mean

[charred beacon]

c4 has audio that's easy to hear, don't think I've been killed by a c4 this entire season, explosive mine sure but nobody ever uses it

[placid slate]

not one shot is it then

[deep grove]

Comparing rpg which WAS a skillless light one shotter to defib one shotting lights, something that would require outsmarting and outmaneuvering a light to do it, and calling THAT unfair, is egregious

[keen raven]

Guess not

Backstabs

[charred beacon]

it'd literally just be like playing a one use sledgehammer rmb?

[deep grove]

Yes, so whats the issue? and besides that it could be balanced by making it use a charge

[charred beacon]

that kills everyone LOL but yeah that's one

[placid slate]

personally havent had an issue with daggers but thats probably because i play spear so i cant give a good opinion

[keen raven]

Not heavy

[charred beacon]

also haven't had problem with dagger

[deep grove]

Dagger is annoying because dash exists

[charred beacon]

doesn't it? I thought it did

[keen raven]

Dagger exists because dash exists

[placid slate]

would be kinda useless without it

[deep grove]

Actually most of the annoying stuff with light is because dash. Just get rid of it

[placid slate]

would kill sword too, lunge needs it to actually work

[dapper mountain]

dang good point

[keen raven]

https://tenor.com/view/gravity-falls-tyrone-twins-think-think-the-same-gif-5524657

[charred beacon]

dash is so mid for anything that isn't a OTP build though (sword, dagger)

[deep grove]

Grapple and cloak still exist to help melee users get into range

[placid slate]

grapple will make you overshoot most the time, and cloak wont help you close the gap as much as you think

light melee would have to have buffs across the board if dash stopped existing

[keen raven]

ey. kudos to you if you can consistantly backstab with grapple

[placid slate]

i mean it is doable, just not very good

[keen raven]

yeah dash can be used more often and in tighter spaces

[placid slate]

yea

[raw ferry]

Anyone know how to kill with a gadget from 30m or more for the contract? I’ve tried trapping and running and sniping but nothing is working

[keen raven]

snipeings not a gadget

[raw ferry]

Tracking dart

And shooting placed mines

[keen raven]

have you tried turret

[raw ferry]

Not a gadget it’s a special so it doesn’t count I did try that

[keen raven]

have you tried grenades?

[raw ferry]

Not sure how to reach 30m with them

Any ideas?

[keen raven]

spam the cashout

[raw ferry]

I’ll try that

[hollow bridge]

Rpg snipes onto the platform?

[hardy dust]

Use smth like c4 or mines.

Or go into power shift and throw frags or something.

[raw ferry]

I’ll try those

I hadn’t thought about power shift

[silk cargo]

c4

[late sequoia]

"Beamed across the map"

Dude, even the ARs lose 55% of their damage past mid range (under 40m), and they don't have enough damage per shot to kill more than two mediums to start with.

With the FCAR as an example:
22dmg a shot, 25 rounds is minus 55%.
Assuming the enemy has exceptional aim (despite antialiasing making target identification alone at long ranges sketchy at best without the sniper 8x scope) and lands 80% of an entire mag, at 38m he can only output 242 damage.
Not enough to kill a heavy or medium, and if a light can't find SOME obstacle to put between them and the shooter at that range they're utterly incompetent.

[vestal cloak]

It's not really about the damage, it's just annoying

It can make it harder to get away, but it's frustrating to feel like you're taking chip damage a bunch all of the time is all I'm complaining about

[silk cargo]

hes just dumb give him a break

[vestal cloak]

Unless it's the lh1 I guess

I just remember in earlier seasons it didn't feel like I was constantly getting damaged from every direction all of the time, but I'm probably just remembering it wrong or people got better. Either or, I just find it really easy to do with guns other than the fcar (minus the last bit of the burst)

[late sequoia]

I love when the enemies with ranged weapons announce to me where they are as im coming over from spawn, it's quite helpful and all I need to do is duck into any form of cover to have 100% health back by the time I get to the fight.

Only exceptions are the guns meant to be used at those ranges, which will do any appreciable damage (sniper, pike, LH1, etc)

[silk cargo]

https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/jxrMFswaRHhe-tSgk?invite=cr-MSxIYkQsMjcwNzg3NzI5LA

one of my worst clips but its simply a skill issue

[vestal cloak]

I mean usually I'm just getting chipped by a different team while I'm fighting another team when this happens. This is probably more of an issue particularly in power shift tbh. It's where I notice it the most

Power shift has kind of always had a weird relationship with long range combat

[silk cargo]

fcar is one of the easiest med weapons to counter

you can also just...walk behind cover

[vestal cloak]

Also now I'm usually getting shot at range by the lh1 and famas, so I guess I'm just feeling those guns mostly

[vestal cloak]

Not saying I'm dying to it, it just feels like it's easy to get beamed from a distance and it's easy to do as well

[late sequoia]

3rd partying is a game design issue you'll see in fast paced games with more than two teams.

Power Shift is where them telling you "I'm here but can't actually hurt you more than a tickle" is more beneficial than not if you get used to using the info to your advantage.

[silk cargo]

taking 50 damage isn't really an issue

especially when they aren't really a threat

[vestal cloak]

Idk what part of "it's just annoying to me" you guys aren't getting lol

[silk cargo]

if its just annoying why bring it up, its not something that needs changing

its just fine how it is rn

[late sequoia]

Unless you're a light AND also fighting someone up close, in which case, if you stood still long enough for them to land 5 rounds you really deserve the loss.

aight, I got a night shift, later dudes.

[silk cargo]

real

[vestal cloak]

It's annoying so I would like it to be different? I prefered when the guns had more recoil personally. Recoil was mostly a problem because of visual recoil before imo with guns like the lh1. Now that that's solved without an on screen crosshair (good), the guns should get their higher recoil back imo

I'm just saying it feels a bit too easy to control to the point where recoil control basically doesn't exist for guns other than the fcar atm

[silk cargo]

if that was the case i'd be getting beamed a lot more

[vestal cloak]

Idk, I get shot a lot from range. I'm PC

[silk cargo]

for good players recoil is almost never a problem, for players who suck at the game its always a problem

[silk cargo]

yeah but how far is "range"

i define that as at least 75m

[vestal cloak]

I just think it would make the game more interesting.

Idk, let's say like I'm getting shot pretty well from the initial top of the building down to the initial platform spawn in power shift. That's maybe liiiiike 50m?

So 50-75m maybe?

[silk cargo]

eh, i dont think thats too far away

[vestal cloak]

I don't mind getting shot at range, I just mind that it feels so easy to do

[silk cargo]

this is a homies clip

[vestal cloak]

Yea, that's far away

[silk cargo]

hes also top 0.01%

[vestal cloak]

Not the map I meant actually, but that works sure. Forgot there were two maps with building spawns like that

[silk cargo]

for almost all players they just won't hit shots like that, but for really good players, they'll always learn the recoil and beam

[vestal cloak]

I mean, I can hit people from that far with the ak. Probably won't get a kill or be consistent, but I can hit someone a bit.

Your buddy looks like he's using a recoil script?

[silk cargo]

hes not lol

[vestal cloak]

Aim is crazy flat. If he's not, that's kind of my point

[silk cargo]

he's played for about 8 hours a day since release

only ever plays AK, never swaps

[vestal cloak]

Game needs a little more bounce to the shots.

And tbh, the validity of your buddy isn't a concern to me. I was just saying that's what it looks like, didn't mean to sound accusatory

[silk cargo]

yeah he gets hackusated and screamed at in VC all the time its so funny

[silk cargo]

all g

[vestal cloak]

Scripting in games like this do run pretty rampant. I know rust had the same issue. I do hope they randomize the recoil patterns very slightly to counter it

[silk cargo]

rust is cancer

[vestal cloak]

Old rust had the same recoil system basically (wild autocorrect)

[silk cargo]

yeah that would help a lot, even if it just had a mirrored recoil pattern

and had a 50/50 chance to use each one

[vestal cloak]

That sounds horrid, but the intention is there

[silk cargo]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vestal cloak]

But yea, point is it's a bit too easy to beam people at range

To the point that if your buddy isn't scripting, that's wild that the screen can basically be flat

[silk cargo]

bro has like 3000 hours in kovaaks

definition of no-life but hes chill

[vestal cloak]

Sure sure ya ya

[silk cargo]

u can ask chicken

[vestal cloak]

He's legit, he's legit, I getcha.

[silk cargo]

i can't tell you how long i spend raging and targeting him before we became friends 💀

[toxic plover]

I don't think.yall are ready for how prevalent the pike will be once they fix its visual recoil

[vestal cloak]

For real

[toxic plover]

And people feel like famas beam is a problem now oooweee

[vestal cloak]

I feel like the famas will still be better because the dps I believe is just higher outside of far range, but we'll have to see. I still think the LH1, pike, and any gun really should turn into a projectile past like 45 meters like the sniper

@silk cargo know what, I just haven't used the ak in a few weeks, yea it's literally got no recoil lol nvm

[silk cargo]

lol

[vestal cloak]

I jumped into the firing range to remember how it felt because I've been using the famas and fcar for funzies a lot more, and yea it's kind of wild. Recoil in this game really does just need an overhaul.

You really don't have to be that good to take out half the moving target's hp at about 60-70 meters in the firing range. Not quite real conditions ofc, but it's clear it's quite easy to do whereas before it felt a lot harder/skillful

[plush fractal]

Anyone on me and my boy need a third

[vestal cloak]

I don't want it to be like super hard or anything, but it feels like every gun kind of gets it for free besides the fcar lol

[toxic plover]

My aim isn't super special or anything, but I can't hit Pike to save my life

[vestal cloak]

Visual recoil is dumb lol

[toxic plover]

I don't want my fictional based video games to be 'hyper realistic'

[vestal cloak]

visual recoil doesn't even exist irl lol

[royal pier]

Game needs to totally rework how recoil works. It's so uninspired how bullets always come from the center of the screen no matter what.

It's still wise to use an external fixed crosshair/dot because the visual recoil and sway are only reduced, not removed.

It's fine to have sway while moving, but make the bullets come from wherever the irons/sight are. That adds some risk and reward for strafing. You gain mobility at the cost of more difficult aiming.

Recoil smoothing also needs to go. Most ARs and SMGs already have easy to control recoil, they don't need to make it even easier while strafing.

[toxic plover]

I mean maybe a little

[royal pier]

I'd also still like to see them try making everything a projectile. Give weapons bullet drop proportional to their intended range. So SMGs have fairly harsh drop, LMGs have minimal drop with slower velocity, and ARs being somewhere in between. A nice indirect buff to the Pike would be it having minimal drop and high velocity to balance out its mediocre damage. Meanwhile, the harder hitting LH1 could have low drop, but slightly slower velocity.

It would make using different categories of guns feel mechanically different. Currently, the only real difference is mag size and recoil.

[royal pier]

Before anyone brings up technical limitations, reminder that Fortnite is on the same engine and last I heard has projectiles. Apex has projectiles as well, and those games have way larger lobbies.

[toxic plover]

Bro was ready for the counter rebuttal

[royal pier]

I know the people here. Many just want to say "no" for the sake of saying "no," and will make something up to justify saying no.

Phone was like "clearly you wanted to put know instead of no."

[toxic plover]

Soooooo true

One guy said he should be able to demate a heavy because he winched him though a wall@royal pier

[toxic plover]

@royal pier Ifw glitch axe btw. Should get 2 of them

[spring grotto]

Anyone else think the new wt throwable oughta be added permanently?

[toxic plover]

I want a force gun. 3 charges, half the strength of a jumppad and no damage. Gadget for heavy. Look down and shoot it while jumping flings you upward

[royal pier]

There's a vocal group of people that just want Heavy to be worthless.

They will not be satisfied until they never have to face Winch, Charge, or RPG again.

I'm fine with Charge having multi-hit protection to avoid those moments where someone takes massive amounts of damage nearly instantly. They could also lock maximum turn speed so that higher sensitivity/DPI doesn't let you do 180-degree turns.

They can also try to fix the moments where winch pulls people through objects. That being said, part of that is just down to servers making something legitimate look sketchy.

[toxic plover]

I like it alot actually. I think it should be a little stronger though or ramp up in healing the longer you are in it's cloud

[spring grotto]

The heal is quite minimal, nothing like a heal beam, but it just feels right. Grabbing one before peaking, stacking them before stealing, its just so satisfying to hear the healing

[spring grotto]

Idkkk, i feel like its not strong alone, which is a great thing. It doesnt out heal any damage being done while in it, but its just efficient enough to turn a gunfight.

[toxic plover]

Locking turn speed on charge would fix it tbh

[toxic plover]

As a sledge heavy it feels near useless because initial heal does jack shit

[spring grotto]

If winch had an actual projectile hit box, and colliding with wall broke the pull, it’d be perfect.

[royal pier]

The multi-hit protection would still be fair imo. I'm not saying it has to be super harsh. Make it so that you can't get hit more than twice a second or so.

[royal pier]

It does have a projectile hitbox.

[toxic plover]

Nahhh make winch latch onto someone with one button press, and pull them to you with the second button press so it can pull people around corners lmao

[royal pier]

You can some weird stuff with the hitbox on the way back by sliding.

[toxic plover]

Fr. Can make it do some silly things like grab in the back pull if you straif

[spring grotto]

Meant for the chain, and when it collides with a wall it snaps, ie the shitty tickrates making the winch pull people around walls not happen.

[toxic plover]

Then the winch should move faster otherwise your asking for a nerf not a rework

[royal pier]

With how debris is in this game, it would break all the time.

I don't think they'll ever fully remove weird moments where it appears to pull through walls.

[spring grotto]

Probably but anything is better than a fucking delete this kid button that homes around walls

[spring grotto]

If they get the tickrates fixed theres a chance. Recently watched a video about a health update like r6 had done. Just fixing things and not worrying about content seemed to save an otherwise plummeting player base.

[royal pier]

But it makes sense that if you get hit while going around cover that it would pull you back around. When it comes to being pulled through goo, it should probably just have it break if it hits the chain.

[royal pier]

It's not homing around the wall. The player hit you while you were still visible to them, and the game has to move you in a weird way to re-sync things.

It's just desync from their weird double server setup.

[royal pier]

Operation Health being looked on fondly is revisionism. It was very unpopular at the time.

Game was still a buggy mess after it.

[spring grotto]

Duh… i was just saying that for the fact that you mentioned.

[royal pier]

They probably can't fix it with their current netcode and servers.

[spring grotto]

Idk man, sure it still had bugs, but nothing that effected every game as it did before they took time to unscramble their shitty egg game.

[royal pier]

Cause chances are it would pull before it detects a wall or obstacle because the hitbox reaches the enemy first.

[spring grotto]

And that’s something that should be looked at positively, listening to community feedback instead of pushing shitty new content down your throat to help you forget.

[warm heath]

Yo wwe've been trying to reach you about your cars extended warranty

[royal pier]

Almost every major patch came with a game breaking bug or exploit.

Shields being put on their head, breaking barricades from only one player's perspective, a shield op being able to block 360 degrees and shoot.

[spring grotto]

All that we patched and fixed within 3 or 4 days. Not only did they fix old bugs but set up a “process” to fixing new ones.

[royal pier]

Except Siege lost players due to a lack of content during Health. Its multiple resurgences is kinda a miracle.

[spring grotto]

Sort of a culling

[royal pier]

Really, the core problem in the game industry atm is that every game has to last for several years while getting new content.

This leads to more and more technical debt and jank as time goes. The old model of iterative sequels allowed for a sort of fresh slate.

[spring grotto]

I disagree with the last part

[toxic plover]

I like winch the way it is rn. I wouldn't even mind if they slowed the projectile speed slightly to give you a chance to side step it so long as the projectile last a little longer too

[royal pier]

I'm hoping Splitgate 2 succeeds and they just work on 3 when it starts getting bogged down.

[spring grotto]

Keep winch the same, tweak cns, and fucking do something about mesh and bubble stacking.

[royal pier]

Prolonged live service games are only sustainable with meatgrinder studios like Epic.

[spring grotto]

Everything else is peachy perfect😐

[spring grotto]

Riot has kinda mastered this strat.

[royal pier]

Meanwhile Embark is a fairly small studio trying to make two live service games at once.

Pretty obvious most devs have been put on to Arc Raiders.

[spring grotto]

Unfortunately, the finals has massive potential.

[royal pier]

Doesn't help that this game was rushed out to ride the hype from the open beta.

So it didn't even launch in a great state.

[spring grotto]

Didnt play for 1 and started late into 2. But it still was enough fun to pique my interest.

[royal pier]

My point is that we still see patches reintroduce bugs that existed in the beta and I'm told Alpha.

Then they piled more content on the already janky foundation.

[spring grotto]

I guess if you throw enough shit at a wall, some is bound to stick?

[royal pier]

But if they take a whole season where they add nothing and just fix stuff, it's probably doomed.

Should have never agreed to make two games at once.

https://tenor.com/view/never-half-ass-two-things-whole-ass-one-thing-do-it-all-give-your-all-give-it-all-give-up-everything-gif-15654643

[spring grotto]

Very true, or at least outsourced for help in starting it or maintaining their first investment.

[royal pier]

They probably should have just kept doing open betas for a week at a time until it was rock solid.

[spring grotto]

Doctor stone is peak

[toxic plover]

3 charges force gun guys?

[hardy dust]

Make a finals 2 so we get 3 tf2s

[sand monolith]

Winch needs a rework it’s inherently poorly designed

[tough tartan]

what do we think about a heal bomb? https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1i9d6ts/how_would_you_feel_about_a_heal_bomb_or_a_heal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[toxic plover]

Like what

[boreal laurel]

Removal from the game? 😄 JK, the idea is great since heavy has only C&S for distance-closing otherwise, and the cashout-grabbing functionality is cool. But it’s so irritating to fight

[wind sierra]

it's cool, and i think that embark is planning to add in more healing systems and are just working on balancing

[toxic plover]

What if it was like mag's pull from warframe

[toxic plover]

I think in it's current form it's weak as shit. But I like it

[boreal laurel]

Never played that one, sorry 😅 This is about the only FPS game I can bring myself to play besides the OG Rainbow Six games

[toxic plover]

Just look it up on YT rq

Like winch but Instant with no stun

[toxic plover]

Everyone give me all your anti gravity cube tech

[hallow leaf]

the dagger hitbox needs a rework

[placid slate]

it does force a ragdoll which is a stun

[toxic plover]

No ragdoll would be too many issues

[placid slate]

im saying thats what a mag pull does

[toxic plover]

You are right but still assuming winch has to be reworked(doesn't really)

[ashen hawk]

Nerf toxicity, forget about stun gun, charge or whatever Medium stuff they're saying is OP (turret? heal beam?)

[fleet brook]

Turrets is a non issue for anyone other than light

It's damage output is not great and is only noticeable when at least 2 mediums have it and then again there's always glitch grenade

[shell sonnet]

What would happen if we half turrets hp, half its damage, but give it 2 charges that are half as expensive?
(Maybe while also allowing 360° vision, but still needing to turn around)

You could spread them out a bit as detection tool, while being able to deal damage more reliably
You could also have some help available more frequently due to the lower cost

And against lights it would hopefully spread the dps out, making it less problematic to them

[undone slate]

Kill 5 opponents with gadgets from 30 meters isn't working for me , any help here

Rocket launcher doesn't count or what ..??

[shell sonnet]

Not sure how strict it is, i think i recall being at exactly 30 meters and not getting it last season
Theres also some jank sometimes with game modes, but i doubt thats the case here

Maybe try quick cash, place a gateway over the cashout and spam nades if someone tries to cap

That might work

[undone slate]

Ill try thx

[deep grove]

Are explosive mines worth spending the 1000 VRs on if I already own gas and pyro mines?

[boreal laurel]

I would say no; pyro mines especially are better since you get two charges and the fire for area denial

[plain wasp]

Are there other things you have to unlock still?

[spring grotto]

Never disagreed with that

[deep grove]

Plenty, yes. mostly weapons and a bunch of light gadgets

[plain wasp]

Medium doesn't get Pyro mines so I'd buy explosives if you usually play medium, and if you don't have jump pad and zip line those are two that you kinda need on medium

[deep grove]

Already have zip and pad, along with gas mines for medium

[plain wasp]

Also defibs make sure to never take those off

[deep grove]

Kinda debating on saving for the cerberus or m26 mass

[plain wasp]

Just don't revive out in the open bring totems to behind some cover atleast with defib

[deep grove]

Nah dont sweat it im not new

Just havent played consistently enough to get most of the items unlocked

[restive plover]

Defibs aren't a locked slot anymore, just revive normally.

[plain wasp]

Okok I don't buy shotguns so I can't give any advice on that part

[spring grotto]

Dont buy the Cerberus

The mass is quite good tho

[deep grove]

Yeah honestly with the QC respawn changes and defib nerf I would say its not a 100% meta pick

[plain wasp]

Cerb is good when you're playing close to teammates

[spring grotto]

If u want a pocket rocket, use revo

[plain wasp]

Defibs are much less than they used to be but still absolutely very important in wt/ranked because you can shoot and revive at the same time

Of course in qc revives don't matter so it's less important there

[spring grotto]

Defib is still good, being able to prolong a fight is very valuable.

[undone slate]

I think the quest mean the arena stuff ?!

[mystic nimbus]

@thorny jewel

[supple basin]

Is the gravity vortex useful?

[fleet brook]

Lights have glitch grenade and can move faster than the lock on

[placid slate]

pyro would generally be better

[fleet brook]

Again lights struggling with a single turret are just bad

Also halving turret damage would just make it useless

Heavy could completely ignore the turret

And most of the time the turret isn't revealing enemies to you

If it still needs to turn then lights can run faster than it can catch them

It'd only lock in if they started shooting and if they start shooting they've revealed themselves

Light is the only class that struggles against the turret and the only class with a one button insta solve for it

[shell sonnet]

just looking for possibilities since turret as a whole could use some love, but straight buffs wont cut it because of those players
i hoped this could help both sides

[brave iron]

Does the 93r have better hipfire than the v9s cus I feel like they have same ads accuracy but I feel the v9s has worse hipfire is this true or is it just me

[boreal laurel]

If you like shotties they’re both good. Matter is more forgiving, but Cerberus comes with the extra HP of medium and the burn effect. I actually like it more, but Matter is better overall

[remote axle]

does anyone have any good revolver loadouts

[strong mason]

I've been running healing beam (demat is good too, I'm just on my healing arc), cause you can hit big numbers then heal your mates. Jump pad always. Frag/zip, and defib/glitch/goo. Defib sickness made it less viable imo, but if you're running heals it's not the worst thing. It's been pad, frag, defib lately for me.

[scarlet heron]

I've only been playing since S4 and found the 93r to just fit my playstyle better than the v9s...I was not familiar with the meta nor care, just what works best for me and found the 93r to be versatile in close as well as ranged

[wicked sluice]

But in wt right now demat is better because of the new canisters

[scarlet heron]

I've long since moved on from lights and trying to figure my place between med & hvy.. vrs are so flipping hard to come by in solo q. If I had to choose between dome shield, c4, and mesh which would be the better purchase to get me up and running on hvy?

[boreal laurel]

Probably dome. None of them are meta by a long shot but dome has the most use cases

[hardy dust]

They're all meta except mesh but you use mesh in double heavy comps

Dome is probably the best out of the 3, being able to have an extra 300? Hp in fights is super valuable, and not to mention when stealing or reviving.

[scarlet heron]

Thx much for the feedback folks👍🏾

[steep bough]

can enemies hear me play the sledgehammer guitar

[placid slate]

all three are good, c4 is one of the best gadgets to deny a steal, mesh is good too, dome is probably the best heavy gadget in the game

[scarlet heron]

I would love to get all 3 but only have 2k in the bank. I suppose I can grind out a couple more games later 2nite and grab 2 of them...TY

[scarlet heron]

I'll probably grab c4 and dome👍🏾

[placid slate]

for c4, stick it onto the cashout, then knock it over so the c4 is in the floor, this prevents the enemy from being able to shoot it letting you drop the box and deny a steal

[scarlet heron]

I've seen this strat in action which is what motivated me to purchase

One general QoL question...if MGL allowed to swap ammo types would this make it OP 🤔. I get making rounds explode on impact would probably be too much...

[placid slate]

id say keep it the same but the rounds explode on collision with players only

[scarlet heron]

Seems fair👍🏾

[royal pier]

So many say this, but I don't want this. Mastering the bounce is the core of the MGL32.

Making it explode on impact with players will lead to people just using it like the CL-40 but with less damage.

[placid slate]

right now it kinda feels very reliant on charge and slam when bouncing isnt an option, thinking this change would atleast reduce that

[royal pier]

These are the two changes I'd want. Less bounce when fired at short range, and smaller AoE splash in exchange for consistent damage.

No more hitting people you can't see with bounces and discovering you were doing like 3 dmg a hitmarker.

Updated to make it more clear.

[ashen hawk]

whole skill abt mgl is to calculate the bounce trajectories and whatnot. itll be too similar to cl40, and players would just cry abt it like they did with cl40

[royal pier]

The nades from the MGL32 also bounce waaay too much when used from height.

You would think that it would be a good weapon to shell from above, but not really. If the area is open, you have to aim like 15m from where you want it to land.

[placid slate]

unlike the cl40, youd actually have to aim

[ashen hawk]

yeah exact-- wait what?

[shell sonnet]

But do we mess with its physics?
That would probably be as well received as the recoil nerfs some guns got

[placid slate]

explodes when hitting players, behaves as current otherwise

[ashen hawk]

ye ik but the skill comes there when u realize that it has a lob trajectory and have to have high grounds at almost all times or be at a disadvantage

[covert topaz]

Can the defibs be the only thing to get the cooldown when getting defibed, there practically useless now, not a single medium uses them when playing ranked or WT. atleast in my lobby’s, you only ever see it in quick cash and power shift.

Especially since you have to reload your gun anyways, so with that can we just get an ammo refill when getting defibed then?

[dim glade]

why use c4 when you could use thermal bore

[storm mist]

Timing

[fleet brook]

Tbf there's a bigger issue of

Why destruction heavy when you can run destruction light

[storm mist]

And thermal bore has a sound queue

[dim glade]

true

But thermal bore goes farther and doesn't require extra activation

[fleet brook]

It also has longer range and can't be shot out

Plus if you're destroying something your enemies knowing that thing is gonna go away doesn't usually matter

[dim glade]

they just need to rework the dash into just a speed boost and everything will be good again

[storm mist]

Who does this benefit

[runic wing]

I kinda wish they would add melee elements as a part of the overall classes. Like rather than just melee specific weapons, you could always have both. if it made sense or you went empty on your clip, you could pull out a melee weapon and have specific combos based on your class.

I'd give lights a bit more range, like flying kicks or something, and give heavy the ability to do grabs or slams. Obviously i haven't thought too hard on it yet, and it does feel a bit overwatch-y.

I do think it would be interesting to see melee based tech come about, or see unique interactions, like 2 people stuck in the heavy's grav lift just to fist fight eachother.

Hell, include blocks while you're at it. Block a melee strike with a melee weapon or your gun. Be able to jump kick a grenade back at someone, idk. Maybe put bayonets as optional attachment's for rifles?

[scarlet heron]

Would the game ever get to the point where riot shield can wield a small pistol similar to Montagne in Siege? Legit question...

[unborn frigate]

no cause they will pretty much always keep it a melee

[manic kettle]

Or blitz cause flashbang

[scarlet heron]

I'd certainly take that👍🏾

Although I could see it being meme and folks blinding themselves or their team

[spring oasis]

I would switch to that if I had non-contributor teammates

[keen raven]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-vs-aliens-i-may-not-have-a-brain-gentlemen-but-i-have-an-idea-jelly-i-may-not-have-a-brain-i-have-an-idea-gif-16097667901967257851

[cursive lark]

Mid-evil style weapons?

Oh damn, thats a demon core

[scarlet heron]

@spring oasis indeed

[scarlet heron]

At some point they'll have to release a halberd skin for the spear? Right?

https://tenor.com/view/lb-lawbringer-video-game-walking-weapon-gif-16395287

[lethal pasture]

what if they added some sort of spear or something for lights that allows them to pole vault

[empty slate]

yo

[keen raven]

A staff. I feel like that whould fit medium

Heavy got 2 melees light has 2 melees medium only has 1

Nvm I forgot swords

[reef pine]

Love the Famas

[formal granite]

they need to give heavy a 50 cal sniper

[hallow coral]

that would be over powered i feel like

[formal granite]

shit would be so silly

but it would have a very low firerate

[vapid frost]

Scythe weapon for light?

[formal granite]

scythe for medium maybe

seems more fitting

[formal granite]

or maybe like a SVD or something

[vapid frost]

I feel like, from a gameplay perspective, melee weapons don’t work well with medium bc it doesn’t have good engage like light nor it has heavies hook, but it might work

[formal granite]

true

[hallow coral]

they should add a pichfork for heavy and the sythe for medium

[formal granite]

and balisong for light 🙏

[vernal raft]

Petition for a handgun for Medium, like maybe a fricking Colt

[formal granite]

or a balisong skin for dagger but preferably its own thing

i agree

[hallow coral]

i feel like light has enough melee akready

[formal granite]

nah more

always room for more melees 🥰

[hallow coral]

maybe but i feel like there should be an even amount for heavy medium and light thoughj

[boreal laurel]

Um revolver? Or do you mean a semi-auto?

[hallow coral]

so one class isnt all melee and the other teo are all guns'

[formal granite]

like a 1911 i think they are thinking

[formal granite]

there is already

[hallow coral]

they should make another pistol for light

[formal granite]

each class has 2 melee options from what i remember, dagger and sword for light, riot shield and duel swords for medium and spear and hammer for heavy

[hallow coral]

light has 3 medium has 2 and heavy has 2

[formal granite]

whats the 3rd for light

[hallow coral]

throwing kinves

[formal granite]

throwing knifes arent melee 🌚

reason being in the name

[hallow coral]

true but in my opinion i would count them as melee

[formal granite]

thats similar to calling the bow a melee at that point

[hallow coral]

true i see what you mean

[formal granite]

indeed

[hallow coral]

but they should make another pistol for light

[formal granite]

facts

[hallow coral]

theres only the 93r

[formal granite]

and the suppresed one

[hallow coral]

which i dont know if i would count that a pistol

oh true i forgot about that one

[formal granite]

kinda in the middle of a machine pistol and pistol

they need a maybe heavy firing slower pistol

[hallow coral]

yeah

[formal granite]

like a 1911

[hallow coral]

yeah that would be a good gun

[formal granite]

indeed

[vapid frost]

I said it when I entered the server and I will say it again

[hallow coral]

or they should make a deagle

[dim carbon]

Ice picks for light which can scale up most walls would be cool

[formal granite]

theres already duel deagles but a single would be cool

[vapid frost]

The game is a virtual gameshow, where anything is possible. So why only make things we have in real life? The game should experiment with more fantasy weapons/gadgets

[formal granite]

this is fire i would vote for this fr

[formal granite]

trueeeee

[hallow coral]

that would be sick

[vapid frost]

Personally I would love to see magic introduced into the game

Like wands/staffs etc

[formal granite]

that would be wacky but cool

[hallow coral]

that would really depend on what it is

[formal granite]

i get staff just not wands

[vapid frost]

Weapons ig

[hallow coral]

cause they already have demat which is sort of like majic but

[hallow coral]

oh yeah that would be cool

[vapid frost]

I personally like how dark and darker implements magic in a """fps""" setting

[dim carbon]

like an elemental wand or staff that rotates between shooting fire, glitch (electricity), gas and smoke would be interesting

[vapid frost]

Yeah, like that

[hallow coral]

that would be funky but cool

[dim carbon]

for which class do you think?

[hallow coral]

that would probably be more of a light i would think

[vapid frost]

I guess it would be a new sort of weapon, like melee, so every class should have an equal amount

[hallow coral]

true

[vapid frost]

But I imagine wand for light, tome/crystall ball for medium and a big ass staff for heavy

[hallow coral]

i feel like that would be better as a gadget but then it would defeat the purpose of all the other gadgets

[vapid frost]

And that it is really easy to implement spells in a way it follows each class archetype, it would be easy to implement support spells for medium, or destructive ones for heavy

[dim carbon]

maybe trail tf2 and make elemental staffs a halloween only weapon for holiday game modes

[vapid frost]

Or maybe it doesn’t have to be that big, as long as it isn’t just fantasy skins for weapons we already have, I would be happy with any sort of magic

[vernal raft]

1911

[dim carbon]

a shrink grenade would be funny, seeing a spinning spear heavy half the size of a light

[hallow coral]

yeah that would have to be more of a limited time weapon for halloween updated only

[thorny wolf]

We need the 1911 as an option for the riot shield tbh

[scarlet heron]

I asked about that earlier...kinda like Montagne but I guess the intent is to keep it as a melee...but someone suggested integrated flashbangs like Blitz

I'd settle for a P9 like in Siege or even integrated flash

[fleet brook]

Demat is "hacking" the VR environment

[lunar geyser]

Yea

[gaunt kraken]

do you get any bonus for max vrs

[untold skiff]

Trying to do a challenge where I have to kill 5 opponents from 30 meters or more using gadgets bc I have been using all the grenades and nothing is working

[thorny wolf]

It's bugged

[untold skiff]

@thorny wolf this happened to you too?

[shut bane]

is lh1 just straight busted rn wtf is this its so easy lmao

[toxic plover]

Easy? As in easy to use? Cause it's even easier to get beamed by it lmao

[toxic plover]

I had the idea of auto crossbow for heavy and a shield gadget that blocks bullets dependant of how you aim it.

great sword

parry mechanic
does an upward slash (opposite of sledge direction)
while holding parry teammates can use as a portable launch pad
to balance have a stamina meter for parry (block meter)
momentum based slashing (longer time swinging faster it attacks) (first 4-5 swings, the speed increases then stays at max speed for 15-25 more swings)

4 special attacks to destroy wall. Special attacks take 2 seconds from start up of parry pose.
while parrying blocks 25% of dmg
35 dmg for primary swing (maybe less dmg per swing)
250 dmg for secondary (charged upwards slash)

I also came up with the idea of vials that throw elemental status(even goo) and takes 2 seconds to mix and switch them

[spark igloo]

theyre meant to be like defense oriented but they both are terrible at that

[tardy zinc]

I just like unique guns like the ones we got this season

[toxic plover]

Kinda funny that riot shield can't block melee attacks but swords can

[toxic plover]

I want a gravity gun gadget for heavy, left trigger for a burst of force, right trigger to apply anti gravity status to a small area that sticks to walls

[late sequoia]

I'd love a no-visual-recoil Mateba Unica skin for the revolver.

[restive plover]

I’ve been trying to get elims from more than 30 m with mines and I should’ve gotten two but the thing is not tallying the kills. Help?

I’ve got clips of both cuz neither worked but I can’t send images in this chat :/

[toxic plover]

Are you stacking C4 on top of it or something?

[late sequoia]

TBH, the explosive mines really should get 2 charges again. One isn't really enough to do anything substantial.

All the mines are subpar nowadays.

[restive plover]

I was when I was trying but on the kills I had, I only had one explosive and one pyro mine. Maybe my contract is off the perc rn which would suck

Two pyro mines on it*

[trail snow]

its understandable but u need to use 100% of ur brain for it

[late sequoia]

"I was when I was"
Maybe the contact is off the perc"

It's garbled AF, thus the joke.
Also "perc"? What, this dude doing Percocets and Oxy or some shit?

[lusty cape]

Revolver underrate

[unkempt geyser]

boys, does the sniper on light an good gun?

or shoud i focus on learning the bow?

[faint steppe]

Bow is definitely the better choice but both are kinda mediocre especially if you want to compete in ranked games

[unkempt geyser]

any mata gun and gadget recom my friend?

[silver tusk]

just use what gives more fun from using, and you will play effectively after a couple of days of practice.
im playing heavy sledge with pyromines+c4 just cause how fun it is and im performing better everyday

[surreal warren]

"Eliminate 5 opponents from 30 meters or more using gadgets" What should I use to get that done because I'm stumped on what I should do

[thorny jewel]

It's been reported by multiple users and passed to the team for investigation

[surreal warren]

Thank you

[spring grotto]

My friend had tried it after seeing me using it. Had triple revolver and completely rolled the server but lost by a cashout since its pretty difficult to win both fights after being 3rd partied aped. He gave it a 7/10 and i agree. Very strong, super versatile, and makes the clutches seem 1000times better than they actually are.

[spring grotto]

Can something be done about the issue on ps5 after every game, returning to lobby after 15 seconds the game freezes. Not so annoying but being yelled at every time it happens because it cancels matchmaking is annoying.

[faint steppe]

I'd say you can make most things work right now. Best gadgets are definitely Gateway, Stun and Glitch. Weapons probably M11/XP, LH1 and Matter. Spec definitely invis but you can make dash / grappling hook work for some weapons.

Overall strongest is probably Invis with LH1 and the three gadgets I've listed. But again most things are viable rn but stuff like bow and sniper just needs a lot more skill to compete.

[spring grotto]

Suspected Domestic T3rrorist 🥸

[gusty latch]

best gadget is the granade

or maybe the extractin

[mint raft]

its the pistol

thats it

[restive plover]

inshallah It’s not even that bad if you look at the context. Let me explain: I was responding to the guy asking if I had put C4 on the mines.
I’ll add context to the reply
“I was (stacking C4 on top of the mines) when I was trying (to get eliminations with gadgets from more than 30 meters), but with the kills I had (gotten from the mines which were 30 meters away) I only had one explosive mine and one pyro mine
Maybe my contract is off the perc rn which would suck”
On that last part I was saying that my contract is tweaking, or in other words, not acting right because it hadn’t marked my kills as valid

[lusty cape]

Nice

[ashen hawk]

We need cyberpunk laser guns fr

[scenic pumice]

wait mines count for the 30m challenge

[restive plover]

They didn’t for me :/

[scenic pumice]

the whole thing annoys me, my perfect rpg shot didnt count because the mf moved 2 steps too close

[orchid rapids]

Is there a fix to the 5 gadget kills from 30m bug?

[ashen hawk]

Stop complaining abt charge and slam. really
Think about it cool-headedly.
Grapple. Evas dash. Anti-Grav Cube. Demat and Jump pad if ur fast enough.
Ur supposed to overwhelm heavies. Thats their main counter. Lights should stop trying to get them nerfed just cuz they cant use their class right.

Trust me on this one, and open the game and try it yourself.
Lights are probably the most creative and diverse class in the game, u can try out so many different ways to overwhelm opponents and give urself advantage

[hexed robin]

i have been trying this too

[scarlet heron]

Thanks for saving me the trouble of asking. I have 2.5k in the bank was trying to figure out a build for playing around the perimeter of the cash out approx 15 meters out👍🏾

I suck but been having a rare bit of success with the 93r...I know it's not meta but just clicks for me. I may give the LH1 a try.

[sacred void]

I can get behind the daggers backstab coming out instant but changing damage based on how long it's held. Only thing is it might be hard to tell when you can do full damage. I guess when the arm stops moving but I'm kinda used to the fact I don't have to look at the arm at all and it comes out only when you have it charged

[shell sonnet]

damage based on how long its held would actually be pretty nice imo
instead of a fail-stab that gets interrupted .2 seconds before its done charging and just does nothing, it instead deals like 250 damage or something
on most classes it will end up doing what you needed it to
and on heavy (or medium with less charge), even if its not enough, it still deals some big chip damage which you can follow up on with butter knives and have an actual chance to kill them in time, instead of literally nothing like currently and either running out of time, or just loosing the 1v1

i am a bit worried about the potential jank with partial damage and breakpoints this introduces
but its currently not much different unless you absolutely make 100% sure its overcharged

charge % based damage would be more consistent and makes it preferable

[teal flower]

If you're struggling with the game as light, use the lh1. As long as you can hit the guy (which isn't hard with reddot) you will most likely win. That gun is busted

[lyric verge]

This is unrelated, but I want to see a Halberd spear skin and a Spartan riot shield skin, maybe even a bola skin for the stun gun.

[lilac fiber]

i know right everytime i see people using it they absolutely shred

[keen scroll]

Does anyone know how to do that bug where the L2 for the throwing knives always go in the other hand even if you’re not pressing L2

[lilac fiber]

alt F4 if i remember

[keen scroll]

The oldest trick in the book and not even on pc

Has this server always been a shitshow

[warm heath]

yeah unfortunatel

[lilac fiber]

damn all that for a silly jape

[viral patio]

Contestant gadget

[ornate turtle]

Make the dagger dash do 900 damage, not 350!

[keen raven]

*340 (maybe I just know it's not 350)

[ornate turtle]

Even if you’re right, 10 damage doesn’t make a difference. It still needs to be buffed

[ornate turtle]

I just checked online, it’s 360. 320 damage, but you get an extra 40 from using the dash glitch😁

[keen raven]

But why 900? Why stop there. Make it more

[ornate turtle]

Now we are on the same wavelength, I was thinking potentially 2000 damage?

[keen raven]

Nah na na we gotta go more it's gotta level buildings in one hit

[ornate turtle]

It needs to do more structural damage than the Sledgehammer, I completely agree

[lilac fiber]

make it so when you backstab theres a giant explosion that levels a whole building

[vapid frost]

Based pfp

[lilac fiber]

thanks

[vocal wadi]

@warm robin JOIN BACK

[restive plover]

Opinion on the ak as an all round

[lilac fiber]

i like it

[shadow onyx]

ngl after reading what some people are saying game feedback, I strongly advise embark to never listen to player feedback ever again

[lilac hemlock]

That's interesting, i will try to
Add it in optional adjustment

[restive plover]

It's the worst of the three ARs.

[restive plover]

What AR do you recommend

[restive plover]

Famas is the best rifle right now.

For medium?

Yes. Although best weapon on medium overall is the 1887.

Ok

Thanks

[late sequoia]

bishop?
Like the religious position, or the chess piece?

[fading citrus]

The riot tech and it's not gone it's just a lil harder angled

[hardy dust]

Some riot shield tech has chess terms, like castling tech

[late sequoia]

What action does that equate to in game?

I still have no idea what it means.

[eager void]

💯 fact

Please don’t take advise from these goofies, they gone ruin a perfectly great game that’s already getting ruined.

[cunning kettle]

#👂┇game-feedback cant ruin this game if embark ruins it first 🔥 🗣️

[rough carbon]

Famas got more viable after the pike nerf, that thing is great even up close against lights

[royal thicket]

before season 5, you could move diagonal by pressing w and a at the same time, putting the shield more or less in front of you while you could still walk at normal speed. Now, the angle of 'perfect' (perfect in quotations as you can always shoot the feet or the knees) block is not 45° anymore but more 60-70 ish. So you constantly have to press and release w for it to work and you're significantly slower than before, making the shield even worse

[late sequoia]

I find both the pike and FAMAS aren't great at longer AR ranges (35-50m), which is kinda where you'd WANT to use them over an AKM/FCAR.
AK and FCAR beam really well from about 10-25m, are decently solid at 25-30m, but really start to stink at 30+, meanwhile you'd expect that the burst rifle and DMR specifically made for range would just be outright bad at 0-10m (and they are), mediocre at 10-20m (and they generally are), but really shine at 25-40m for the FAMAS and 25-50m for the pike.

Instead, they just tickle the enemy and softly carress them.

[late sequoia]

Thanks!

[rough carbon]

The pike was fun when you could use it like a slug shotgun upclose like the lh1

[late sequoia]

Yeah.
TBH, the Pike doesn't even have a reason to exist anymore.

[rough carbon]

And i don't even play medium, I play light and then heavy the most

I just want fun weapons for all

[late sequoia]

I prefer medium's support (as I like playing support classes in most every game), but Medium's weapons are utter shit compared to Light's, and heavy's LMGs are better than the AK/FCAR simply because the relatively low mag size to reload ratio really screws those guns over given how piss poor their DPS is.

[rough carbon]

Now that m60 has sights i find it difficult to pick the Lewis gun

Lewis gun needs a faster reload or something

[late sequoia]

If anything, light should be the slow killing class designed to harass players from the fringes (because light can move around so rapidly for extended periods of times).

But medium's designed around constantly having his weapon down and using his ability/gadgets so he really needs to have the guns that spit out damage fastest.

Meanwhile Heavy fills it's role nicely.

[rough carbon]

As fun as light is it could probably use some tuning

More recoil or less accuracy so one has to get a little closer like tf2 scout or tf2 spy

Get out of that comfort zone and into the fray

[late sequoia]

Planetside 2 is a game with similar TTKs, and it showcases just how well this game design choice works.

While the mobility class (light assault) and cloaker class (infiltrator) fill the Finals' role of the Light class, they're both not given great weapons outside of CQC fights and snipers.

When you do give them something else, they become noticeably too powerful for most players' skill level (which has been a long standing issue for many players in Finals).
Sure, it's balanced for the top 1-2% who have like +90% accuracy past 30m and 99-99.9% accuracy at 0-29m, but balancing around that is a surefire way to make a bad game.

Meanwhile, in PS2, the engineer and medic class fill Finals' role of Medium, and they're given some exceptional weapons that do well at all ranges and for all purposes.

If you're constantly healing others or deploying turrets or repairing vehicles or tearing down/dematerializing walls, you're easy prey for even the lowest skill players because you don't even have a gun out while doing you job.

So you give them stronger guns to offset that disadvantage.

PS2 and Finals both have Heavy doing the same thing.
Shields, barriers, and tankiness combined with modestly less accurate but bigger mag versions of the medium's weapons.

[rough carbon]

Wouldn't mind seeing the Barrett rifle in the heavy hands, slow ROF maybe some bullet drop, maybe give it a short or mid range sight

5 round mag

Maybe some destruction capability like the KS-23

But very minor, enough to make a smaller hole

[late sequoia]

I just want to see a proper SCAR again.

The FCAR started out as a 26dmg hard hitting weapon, but now it's a piddledy little 22dmg barely more than the AK.

At this point, it's more like a Thompson SMG or a modern day pistol caliber carbine ("PCC") than an AR.

Medium should get a proper big chonky bullet slinger like a BAR (but, ya know, not from WW2, so probably the modern equivalent the Ohio Ordinance's Heavy Counter-Assault Rifle AKA "HCAR").

[rough carbon]

Wouldn't mind a SCAR, but how would that go, high damage, low magazine?

[late sequoia]

And the ideal stats already exist too!
The Light's V9S stats are pretty much perfect, just lower the fire rate a bit to make it more of a powerhouse ranged AR.

[rough carbon]

I'd like to see an auto crossbow for the medium

And maybe a harpoon gun for the heavy where you can stand on embedded harpoons stuck in walls

Also massive knockback

[late sequoia]

My ideal way to do this:

Rename the current FCAR to a Thompson/PCC. (Personally, I'd hope they'd go with either a classic like the UMP, or the more modernized H&K USC 45.)

Now take the FCAR name/model/animations/etc. and slap it on a perfect 1:1 stats copy of the V9S.
Cut the fire rate from 400ish (don't recall the exact value) down to about 300-340rpm.
Extend damage model from losing damage at 16m out to 40m and reaching min. damage at 20m out to 45m.

BOOM!

Now we have a truly accurate hard hitting heavy AR like the SCAR and HCAR are IRL.
Anything with a SCAR adjacent name should hit like a truck (given they're supposedly firing the massively powerful .308 Lapua round).

Here's the H&K USC 45 (PCC), by the way.
It's definitely something I'd love to see in the game.

Or you could go the AR15 clone route and do something like the "Just Right Carbine Gen 3":

[rough carbon]

I wanna see a medium gun with heavy recoil but the highest rof

[late sequoia]

Dude, Scorpion EVO

[rough carbon]

Have the medium dip it's toes into light territory

[rough carbon]

That looks lovely

I'd run it

[late sequoia]

It's usually the videogame go-to for stupidly fast RPM buzz gun.

While other guns like the AK/FCAR fire 577-600 RPM, and the M11 fires 1021 RPM, the EVO could easily fire 1200-1800RPM and burp it's entire mag out so fast that if you try to fire a single round you'll probably spend 5.

[rough carbon]

Would be cool if the heavy got a mounted gun specialization like rampart in apex

Surround it with barricades

[late sequoia]

Medium specialization:
Heavy Saddle.

Literally just a backpack designed for getting a piggyback ride from a Heavy while shooting in any direction 360 from his back.

🤣

[rough carbon]

Only if they're smaller then I can see it working, imagine a medium healing on top of the heavy

Heavy tanking most of the damage

[late sequoia]

I mean, it wouldn't be too hard to headshot the medium off him, given that the medium's head would be exposed the whole time and they couldn't move faster than the heavy.

[rough carbon]

Oh and maybe the heavy could be used as a stepstool for higher jumps

[late sequoia]

Yoshi!.mp4

[rough carbon]

Like Mario leaping off Yoshi's back lol exactly

It sounds less like a specialization and more so a perk if we lean towards that in the future

If we get more variables for our kits like passive or movement perks it would be interesting

Like a super long slide or wall jumping or ADS leaning

[late sequoia]

I'm doing some math atm to try to work out how a viable ScorpEVO could be done to give Medium a buzz gun not unlike the M11 without making it a straight up better weapon.

[rough carbon]

Well the medium wont be as mobile so unless you willingly get in their face the medium has to work for those kills by baiting and kiting someone near

Also the cerberus needs a good self kickback to be used as a jumping tool like the Team Fortress scouts force o nature

How about a two stage tether gadget that you can shoot someone with then shoot another player or a canister and it brings them close together

A little spiderman action

Sorta like the deadbolt but more direct aiming

[late sequoia]

Hm, at this point, it's looking more like a P90 than an EVO.

13dmg
50rnd mag
1180rpm
2.1s reload (while the M11 has a 1.7s reload)
M11 recoil pattern (but more vertical recoil as well)

All this kinda makes it feel more like an off-version of the M11.

[late sequoia]

Cerberus really sucks, imo.

[rough carbon]

I want to like it but the 1880 eclipses it

They need to make the fire damage more consistent

Or make it so you can fire all 3 barrels at once after holding m1 or something

[late sequoia]

Flame is HIGHLY inconsistent
(I once tagged a light with like 2-3 pellets from one shot and got 3 ticks of fire damage off him, then fired 3 shots with all pellets on target at literally 1m or less into a heavy who was reviving and got ONE flame damage tick on him.)

And the entire mag only does 308dmg even with all pellets landing

Literally can't kill a heavy with a full mag and perfect 100% accuracy.

[rough carbon]

If you want to be a status effect nuisance it could help if you run gas and glitch and have the weapon cover fire

Ever since tom clancys the division I enjoyed the idea of status effect builds

[weak kernel]

cerb should only really be run if you're running, at minimum, demat and jump pad, you need to be able to jump people on your terms and demat is perfect for just that

[late sequoia]

Each shot should deal like 135dmg, and each pellet landed (9 per shot) should deal 1 tick of flame damage (flame does 5dmg a tick, 1 per second).

Landing a perfect shot should apply the same flame duration as smashing a fire grenade on their face.

[rough carbon]

Run flashbang, glitch mine, gas and cerberus lol

[late sequoia]

Even then, it's woefully inadiquate.

[indigo nexus]

Do you have any clips of this behaviour? I have not been able to replicate this myself

[late sequoia]

Sorry, I've probably got a few with no flame applied after a decently solid hit, but tbh I don't want to dig through multiple hours worth of 2.5min long Shadowplay clips to track those down for you.

[weak kernel]

I've never really agreed with this, medium has better all-rounder guns to be sure but the cerb is a ganking device and it can do that job about as well as you'd want medium to without it getting really annoying. if you want to make it significantly better (not just touching flame proc) without making it overbearing you'd have to rework its fundamental purpose, same as how you can't really nerf the light double barrel much without killing it outright

[rough carbon]

Just run the cerberus for a game or two and you'll realize right away it's very underwhelming

[indigo nexus]

Fair. I think how it works is that there’s some invisible meter that fills up from Cerberus damage that creates the fire when it maxes out, but its exact behaviour is hard to work out

[rough carbon]

It needs a quick rate of fire

Just spam those shots, go big or go home

Also I'd like to see a weapon with binary fire

[late sequoia]

At the absolute least, reduce reload speed by about half a second.

Unless we're talking top 1%ers who practically NEVER miss, you have to account for misses when you do reload to mag size ratios, and medium's honestly pretty bad in this regard across the board.

[late sequoia]

Yeah, it's really not great in the hands of anyone who's not practically a living aimbot, and even then, they could do better with ANY weapon at that point.

[indigo nexus]

I think the reload is fine personally… I like that it specs into high burst, long reloads. It’s its whole niche. I’d much rather a potency buff than a reload rate increase

[rough carbon]

1880 feels like it has better range over the cerberus

[late sequoia]

You mean mediocre burst, long reload...

High burst is the 1900 on Light.

[indigo nexus]

I’m talking from a viewpoint of assessing its specialisation, not its viability

[late sequoia]

Ah, "what it's supposed to do" rather than "what it actually does".
I get it.

The concept is fine, the execution is horribly lackluster.

[rough carbon]

Lemme fire all three barrels all at once

[indigo nexus]

hold lmb to charge!!!

[late sequoia]

I really want to see Medium get a "no reload" ranged option like the Throwing Knives.

Not the same intended use, per se, so much as "it has constant up-time, no downtime to reload", though the TTK wouldn't be better than other options.

[rough carbon]

If you whiff you're dead

[weak kernel]

I mean again, it's the light DB equivalent and that's how the DB is balanced, dive in, land shots and win, or miss and die. The idea of it is that it lets you play Medium in a very ratty "jump someone, get the pick, leave" kind of way. The thing is that it only works that nicely with demat because outside of demat Medium has very lackluster close quarters movement options, something I've always viewed as deliberate.

[indigo nexus]

that would be a fun buff but perhaps frustrating for victims

[rough carbon]

Make the triple shot knock back the medium too

I want some shotgun jumping action

[rough carbon]

Light at least has the safety net to gtfo at will but medium will be a sitting duck between bursts

[weak kernel]

if light is THAT close and they've missed their shots there's really no excuse at all for them escaping, and yeah that's where demat comes in

[indigo nexus]

goo grenades can mitigate it partially

[rough carbon]

If you had to hold m1 to charge up the shot, that adds another variable to consider like the light bow

Maybe change the weapon so it fires on release of m1

[late sequoia]

I recall seeing a 3-barrel shotgun that had the standard 2 shots of 12ga, and then the bottom barrel was 10ga.

That would be a cool function to make it not so shitty.

First 2 shots are current damage, last one will 100% guaranteed apply flame for 5s if you land even 1 pellet.

You can hand-wave it as the last shot being a double-load of the magnesium pyrotechnic material on top of the 00 buckshot.

[rough carbon]

How about the LeMat revolver

Revolver with a shotgun shell secondary function

[late sequoia]

Oh GOD, please don't make me load precussion caps after loading oldschool black powder and musket balls with a ramrod...

(Joking aside, yeah, similar concept.)

🤣

[weak kernel]

i'm actually extremely down for giving medium a literal musket as a joke weapon

[indigo nexus]

I think I’d prefer making all three shots just add a bit more fire

[rough carbon]

The shotgun shell should either be shot at random or maybe at the end when all the bullets have been used up

[weak kernel]

terrible accuracy, awful reload, respectable damage and a bayonet

[late sequoia]

No ADS, shotgun is the ADS button plus firing.

[rough carbon]

A bayonet weapon that adds to melee damage would be neat

If not more damage then a further melee reach

Or a charge function

Like battlefield 1

[late sequoia]

TBH, all shots proc'ing fire guaranteed on hit, and the last shot applying a longer fire duration would be cool.

It might be horribly inconsistent with hits, but if it does like 25dmg over time on hit (with 35-50 on the last shot), you can at least do hit-and-run tactics.

[indigo nexus]

I think I’d rather not have it able to set people on fire easily at long range, but that’s just a personal preference

[rough carbon]

I wouldn't mind it and I don't play medium lol

[late sequoia]

I swear, that thing is pretty stupid.

I've shot guys at like 3m with it and was SURE I couldn't have missed more than a pellet or two, only to see it do like 40dmg.

[rough carbon]

Or change it so the chances are greater up close

[late sequoia]

The pellets seem to despawn past about 20m, I find it's pretty easy to ping people with flame grenades at that range if you're on high ground (and the flame grenade does 20dmg/sec for 12s).

[rough carbon]

The thermal bore should stick to players like a plasma grenade

[weak kernel]

this will not make people even angrier about the worst class in the game

[rough carbon]

I do more damage with the tracking dart lol

[indigo nexus]

I’m pretty sure I’ve shot people from significantly further myself but I do not have evidence for this. You can set foliage on fire from quite some distance with enough shots.

[weak kernel]

genuinely sad that we missed out on the timeline where embark threw light a mini-rpg

[rough carbon]

Destiny 2 mountaintop when

[late sequoia]

TBH, light should have Medium's longer (average) weapon reloads, and Med should have light's quick reload speeds.

Light really is designed well for low damage hit and runs, and it's WAY too powerful at just showing up with no counter to insta-gank mediums (as well as match up with lights) then reload before the enemy can and do it all over to another person with no recourse or counter.

[late sequoia]

I've yet to have anything but players and gas clouds get affected by the fire, including grass and foliage (even on Kyoto in the bamboo forest).

[rough carbon]

As someone who plays light i think the hp regen is a little too fast and should be lowered a bit

[eager surge]

<@&1012034066876473384> can I get an official answer on if gadgets and mines specifically show skins to enemies, or if they only see the default skin?

Or if seeing default is intended but there's a bug that sometimes shows the selected skin?

[rough carbon]

When I play heavy the regen is brutal

[indigo nexus]

Probably just haven’t shot stuff for long enough I guess. I think players are the only thing you can set on fire with a single shot.

[rough carbon]

They should have kept it all the same rate honestly

[late sequoia]

I'd love to know this too, at least for mines.

I know some gadgets like the Barricade definitely show skins that the enemy chose (was crapping myself when an enemy heavy put up the level 9 reward skin for his barricade in one match about 2 weeks back).

[late sequoia]

Yeah, I don't drop multiple mags worth of shells into bamboo just for idle curiosity.

[eager surge]

Aye, and turrets too. Have heard conflicting for mines, some swear down they never show skins, I swear I've seen enemy mines skinned, but always forget to check when I play 😅

[late sequoia]

If it doesn't show up in 3 shots while shooting at a dude at range in a forest of extra tall extra dry bamboo (literally a type of grass), then it might as well not be there.

Again, each shot should 100% guarantee applying flame for a brief period.
It doesn't have to deal 20dmg/sec for 12sec like the flame grenade, but just 5dmg/sec for 5 sec or 10dmg/sec for 3 sec (25-30 damage over time) would be fine.

[rough carbon]

If we ever get a cartoon themed season the demateralizer should have a black hole skin 🕳 an opaque hole you cannot see through

[late sequoia]

Sounds more like the teleport grenade on light, tbh.

[rough carbon]

It does sound like it's own gadget doesn't it

Instant hole grenade

[late sequoia]

That would be an interesting option for medium.
Portal Gun!

[rough carbon]

A lesser version of demat like the goo grenade to the goo gun

The fact that you can't see through it will make some funny plays

Imagine mines being beneath

[late sequoia]

You'd still hear them through the demat'd surface though.

TBH, mines should either beep OR blink, not both.

[weak kernel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/edit?gid=2136619021#gid=2136619021 observe the TTK chart, medium generally beats light in 1v1s. It's fine for the fast flanker that loses 1v1s to have fast reloads to be the constant pest they're supposed to be imo

[rough carbon]

How about we introduce bleed tick damage and caltrops

[late sequoia]

On paper, assuming no misses with aimbot accuracy even though light can use dash and literally turn invisible...

In practice, it's not even close.

[rough carbon]

As a status effect fiend I want this

Blown away by explosions

[late sequoia]

"bleed tick damage"
Medium flechette shotgun when?

[rough carbon]

Blow gun lol

[late sequoia]

Not destroyed, just scattered around!
^_^

[rough carbon]

Blow gun would be more poison i guess

[rough carbon]

It would be so abused on cashout points

Claymores that have a cone range maybe

Side grade for mine

Or a Bouncing Betty mine

[weak kernel]

on paper TTK is an extremely reasonable metric to use in an FPS with strong hitscan guns, people will track that well. people are perfectly capable of tracking through dash. Invis can be good for getting the drop on people, it's true, but it actually isn't a perfect cloak and I don't really think it's enough to overcome Light's other weaknesses- either way I've never really liked how cloak works anyway so I'd be fine with it getting nerfed or reworked or w/e

[late sequoia]

I'd like to see medium get an old school M79 40mm grenade launcher as a "no reload" weapon option.

Obviously, you'd reload after each shot, but the time between shots would be the constant "fire rate", like knives tossing right hand left hand then repeat.

Put the fire rate lower than the CL40 with a full mag, but the DPM higher than the CL40 when accounting for reload time.

IE, the CL40 fires at 75rpm, having a 5 round mag with a 3s reload.
If you put the M79 at 60rpm (1.0s reload), you could have a viable sustained fire alternative that's not as great in CQC against say a Sword light, but better for mid range engagements where misses are inevitable and 9 times out of 10 the AoE won't land even a fraction of the damage potential per "hit".

[rough carbon]

What if light had a fake out decoy specialization like Mirage in Apex

Either stationary or mirrored movement

[weak kernel]

the only thing I'd really love on light personally is something like a close range only instant breach that works on like a 1 charge 30-40 second cooldown. I want to be able to instantly dive through a wall the same way the other two classes can, otherwise the class feels fun where it's at

[rough carbon]

Doomfist gauntlet for heavy 2025

Do it you cowards

[late sequoia]

40mm greande "stinger" round.
Literally just a shell you load with a ton of .22lr rounds so it's a shotgun with extremely minimal (practically no) pellet spread at range.

[rough carbon]

I just want some conditional horizontal movement for heavy that isn't charge and slam

[rough carbon]

Might make a nice gadget to complement melee heavy builds

[weak kernel]

I want more not necessarily good fun gimmicky guns 2bh

[rough carbon]

Just like how I use the tracking dart with the sword to finish off players I hit with the lunge but managed to get out of range

[weak kernel]

giant, absurdly clunky break action AMR on heavy

[rough carbon]

Harpoon gun would be fun

Nailing a player against a wall for a second

[late sequoia]

Here's an interesting idea:
"gadget" slot passives that alter your character, specialization, or primary weapon.

IE, Heavy and Medium being able to equip a single shot UBGL or UBSG with select weapons instead of taking an extra gadget (defib, dome shield, pyro grenade, what-have-you) and you get an alt-fire button that can fire the underbarrel attachment.
Firing it puts it on cooldown, just like any other expendable (grenades, deployables, etc).

Take an AKM with UBGL, or take a pike with an underbarrel shotgun.

For maximum memeing, take the Cerberus or SA1216 with UBSG.

Mount a shotgun on your shotgun today!

[rough carbon]

How about a hand wielded puckle gun that had partial explosive damage, not as good as the grenade launcher but had a larger magazine and exploded on contact, I don't think the original puckle gun was explosive but it for the sake of gameplay why not

I can see lights crying about that though

But they got it too good anyway

[late sequoia]

sounds more like the M32GL but with CL40 rounds, tbh.

[rough carbon]

Explosive rifle with a moderate rate of fire

Flak cannon

[late sequoia]

alt-ammo options for some stuff would be cool.

Take a CL40 with stinger shells.
Take an M32GL with DU slugs!

[rough carbon]

Slugs all the way like battlefield 3 and 4

Discount sniper rifle

Oh how about an EOD bot like battlefield engineers

Slap a turret or mines on top for hilarity

But you're a sitting duck while you control it

Sounds like a medium gadget

[rough carbon]

You should be able to bash with the riot shield if you m1 while holding m2

Mild cc with knockback

And make the dual blades able to run a little faster or do a little lunge like light sword

[late sequoia]

That, or do a Charge n Slam mad dash charge forward (minus the damage and structural destruction of course).

[rough carbon]

Or some sorta pounce move

Hold m2 and jump with it

[rough carbon]

If we get perks I want a tactical dodge roll for heavy

Imagine rolling into a charge

[late sequoia]

Oh, fun fact:
The riot shield is a collision object.
It's effectively an infinite health undamagable Barricade on legs.

Because of this, the easiest way for a riot user to stop someone from stealing the cashout box is... just run in front of them.

The shield will block their line of sight, entirely resetting the timer.

This also works against allies, so user beware.

[rough carbon]

It was a little funny setting shields on fire for awhile

Also I didn't know about stopping caps by getting in their face

[late sequoia]

This is also quite interesting, in that you can sprint full-speed ahead while having your shield directly in front of you.

All you have to do is... inspect the shield!
Your character will hold it up in front of him to get a better look at it, all the while it's blocking incoming fire as you sprint full speed ahead into a lewis gun or sniper laughing as their shots bounce off.
(You do have to spam the inspect button a LOT though.)

[rough carbon]

Would cyro barrels/grenades seem like BS? Slowing movement a bit

[rough carbon]

Oh that's broken I gotta try that

Adding freeze barrels would piss off lights

[late sequoia]

Keep in mind, your legs are still quite exposed, so milage may vary.

[rough carbon]

Fair enough

[late sequoia]

I saw a ruby tier streamer last season who was CONSTANTLY inspecting his shield, and it didn't click for me as to why he was doing it until he ran directly at a sniper (who was some 50m or so away on a rooftop) across open ground and a few sniper shots clunked on his shield.

[rough carbon]

Nice lol

[plain wasp]

Slowing movement wouldn't be as fun as making the ground slick

[rough carbon]

I do like the idea of the ground being slippery

[late sequoia]

Hm, not a fan of the idea of dash lights being able to go even faster across an oil slick as if they had a personal zipline-speed button able to send them in any desired direction at will.

[plain wasp]

A slow could be balanced in being like motion sensor or glitch trap in an area, being breakable

[plain wasp]

It wouldn't only affect lights, using it with movement on other classes would speed them up down slopes and whatnot

[late sequoia]

tbh, I never get much use out of the glitch trap now that it doesn't serve as a makeshift detection tool.

Enemies tend to just ignore it and gun me down anyway, as if their screens don't shake.

[late sequoia]

Yeah, but that's insanely situational.
Dash and grapple lights would be able to control it at all times and in any desired direction.
Medium's movement is dependent on placing items, zipline wouldn't really benefit from it (as player speed while on the zip is locked at a specific speed), and the jump pad would require some rather uncommon niche conditions to make it benefit.

[plain wasp]

If they're in a glitch trap and still winning that says more about your team play and ability to aim than the glitch trap being bad, especially if you're talking about lights

[late sequoia]

All it says to me is that im not playing against enemies prone to panicing or with bad aim...

[plain wasp]

Zip speed is still faster than walking, and even if lights were very affected by the slick and able to move in a straight line on an ice slick that would also make them very easy to track

[late sequoia]

The algorythm would pair me against similarly bad aim players, if my aim was actually bad, and we'd both do terribly.

Instead, it just seems to do little to nothing (implying im being compared with calm and skilled players).

[plain wasp]

There is no algorithm or sbmm outside of ranked

And the glitch effect literally kills every escape option for the enemies, your team has to push off of it for it to be useful

[late sequoia]

I regularly play with a guy who's in Ruby... I 100% guarantee that in our casual matches, im paired against borderline aimbot top 3-5%'ers well above my skill level when I play with him.

When I play with other friends who're average, we see average matches against average players.

There is absolutely some form of sbmm even in casual.

[plain wasp]

It is random who you get paired with, sometimes the lobbies are easy and sometimes one of the teams wipes the floor with everyone else, who you play with has no impact

I play with the same squad all of the time and still get very wide variety in skill levels I go against

[late sequoia]

"sometimes"

literally EVERY match i've ever played with one specific guy, hundreds of matches over months of gameplay
only happens with that one guy

Yeah, F to doubt on that one.

[plain wasp]

Were you tracking the ranks of every player you went against

[late sequoia]

You're getting a range of people within your SBMM score (probably +/-5%), with duos and larger groups getting averaged (so you may join a match with a 4-stack where one guy is top 5-10%, the others are closer to 40-90%, and it's averaging around your ELO).

[late sequoia]

No, im just watching them utterly BEAM people and play like meth'd out squirrels with Bruce Lee reflexes when I die.

Pretty unmistakable.
Especially when you regularly spectate someone just as good.

[rough carbon]

I'd like a speed gate for medium, like a horizontal player launcher

[plain wasp]

Sideways jump pad:

[alpine eagle]

put jumppad on any goo and you got that

[late sequoia]

sounds like a few of those triangular jump pads on some maps.
Especially the ones on that new map that came out in S4 (the one that's like a ground level cityscape from Mirror's Edge)

[rough carbon]

I like bunnyhopping and will push my agenda accordingly

[plain wasp]

Use sideways jump pad

[rough carbon]

How about a cluster bomb grenade for heavy

[late sequoia]

That does kinda predicate finding or orchestrating an angle that's not too steep (so you get meaningful clearance rather than wasting a jump pad on a 5m jump into the ground in front of you) and then getting enough velocity to have it launch you with decent speed for distance.
Not hard to do, of course, but definitely more time consuming than just running forward and clearing the same distance on foot without wasting the jump pad.

Having a pocket triangle jump pad that you literally just set down on a flat surface and get bumped forward and up at like a 45 degree angle in the pointed direction of the pad with ease would be cool.

[plain wasp]

Or they could change the jump pad to have an alternate feature where it adds a little base below it to add horizontal velocity

[late sequoia]

True, but how would you raise/lower it on the fly?

[whole lily]

https://tenor.com/view/britain's-got-talent-buzzer-red-buzzer-x-bgt-gif-7656128077474074201

[plain wasp]

The click or trigger that doesn't place it

So right click or left trigger

[late sequoia]

I'd think that'd be reserved for rotating it, like with the turret.

Maybe R, given that you don't have to reload it.

[plain wasp]

Yeah that'd work

[late sequoia]

If you made rotate R, it'd be best to make that change universally for the turret and other rotatable gadgets. (I can't remember, does the Barricade rotate like the turret?)

[plain wasp]

I think barricade does

It'd be cool to be able to rotate which way a goo wall comes out too

[late sequoia]

Yeah, that'd be nice.

even just alternate between goo wall and blob (thrown goo barrel vs shot goo barrel).

[plain wasp]

It could have 3 modes

Using reload to alternate between them

[late sequoia]

I still want alt-fire options for certain weapons.

[plain wasp]

Alt fires would have to be specifically for weapons that can't aim

Or have some way to alternate with another button somehow

[late sequoia]

Or weapons with certain features/oddity weapons.

A dedicated button for it would be fine by me.
X, for example, isn't used for anything by default.

[plain wasp]

Having weapon abilities on cooldowns could be interesting

But we would need a button for controller as well

[late sequoia]

2x burst (with a shorter delay between them) would be an awesome option for the FAMAS.

[plain wasp]

It could be set to a d-pad button probably but I think most are bound to emote wheel things

And a double burst would suck to play against

[late sequoia]

IMO, controllers have no business playing pvp FPS games.
It's simply got too many controversies behind it.

From console sales incentivizing extremely heavy handed benefits like we see with Apex and Halo Infinite, to literal aimbot tier aim assist and bullet magnetization making any low skill player able to perform like a top 3-5% MKB PC player.

[late sequoia]

I don't think it'd be that big a deal, other than not being able to count on near-certain misses for that final shot at +30m. (And it's pretty scummy making a burst weapon with bloom so harsh that you can't hit all the shots in the burst within the weapon's designed range, regardless of player skill.)

[plain wasp]

Giving it a double burst would be a major increase to dps

[late sequoia]

no no, 2x burst.
2 bullets, not 3.

My bad, I wasn't clear enough.

[plain wasp]

Ohhh that makes more sense

[late sequoia]

shorter delay between them (same dps/ttks point blank), but more control over the accuracy.

[plain wasp]

I was going to mention single fire could be useful for other weapons and the famas

[late sequoia]

Honestly, the game was more fun back in the early days before they ruined it with nitpicky balance changes.

FCAR with 26dmg a shot and 20rnd mag (even if it was too good, fixing that would have been easy by just lowering fire rate from 577rpm to 480-530 or so), AKM had 36 rounds in it's mag, nukes were comical and creative, hell even the spear spin while sliding that we just lost.

oh geez, it's like 2hrs past when I meant to be in bed.
Good night!

[rough carbon]

I've seen some absolute beam demons on console

[plain wasp]

"It's because aim assist is OP"

I have tracking aim assist off and it makes no difference to me

[rough carbon]

Can't beat the movement on light with mouse and keyboard

I'll trade any form of aim assist for unabridged movement hands down any day of the week

Even on heavy

[sly compass]

TBH there have been quite a few fimes when aim assist got in the way

[vast ivy]

Real

What’s il y’all

[spring grotto]

It makes it harder to accurately control the recoil and track the target at times. Its a double edged sword.

[vast ivy]

Do yall know what the best gun is for light

[winter jay]

lh1, m11, xp are all very good rn

[vast ivy]

Thanks

[spring grotto]

93r is underrated

[restive plover]

93r is accurately rated.

[restive plover]

M26 if you're playing with other shotguns, lh1 in all other scenarios.

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-hes-right-you-know-hes-right-you-know-meme-gif-27526609

[vast ivy]

Thanks I’ve only been playing for a few weeks so I’m still getting used to it

[vapid veldt]

I would like the 93r if the FAMAS didn't exist making the 93r seem bad. Why does the class with the lowest health pool, that is supposed to get the highest DPS weapons, just have a worse version of a medium gun? Great for light v light, use M11, LH1, or XP for any other situation. It's a fair gun, but what's the use of a fair gun when there are better options than fair?

[plain wasp]

You can't have two weapons at once but you can put a weapon in reserve to switch to between deaths

[winged kettle]

medium withou defri =

[scenic pumice]

how are you guys getting the gadget kills beyond 30m?

[rough carbon]

You can use mines and run away

I like to use the tracking dart to finish low hp lights after I hit them with a sword lunge https://youtu.be/KIUx5D0lsGw?si=2GM_SQWCn8KHpsbD

[lean narwhal]

Contracts been reported as bugged, devs are aware

[lilac hemlock]

HEY, the Dagger Refinement proposal survey is finally ready! Please take a moment to complete this survey so I can gather information to improve the Dagger Refinement in the next update. Thank you!

link to survey: https://forms.gle/bFfH2h7FuR4v7Qgc8

[woeful agate]

i think this issue expands more to just medium ARs being pretty strong overall. i run into a similar problem when I run the pike where it's ok in its very narrow niche, but the other weapons are so strong that being ok at plinking targets from far away isn't good enough

[tender pendant]

Red dot on famas?

[hazy spoke]

when is mid season?

since the only want to bring balance changes at the start, mid and end of a season

[cursive lark]

Angled launch pad for the heavy?
Could do half of the launch power of the regular launch pad from the medium but can do it at an angle instead of straight upwards

A red dot on the fcar would be cool too

[keen raven]

Love this idea

You put this in game feedback right?

whould also help it compete with light shotgun

[zealous folio]

Pike got nerfed into the ground, it's unusable on anything besides long range.

[woeful agate]

that’s kinda the point - that the more unique weapons for medium aren’t really ever allowed to contest the AR/model meta

[zealous folio]

Im not gonna deny it was oppressive on release, but they gave it a terrible treatment, nobody runs Pike nowadays, not even in QC or PS

[woeful agate]

yeah i understand their concern i having a really strong dmr but to do basically nothing for it since then is frustrating as someone who really likes semi auto weapons and playing medium. it even still has visual recoil w the scope

[zealous folio]

My main complaint, i don't like ARs or any automatic weapon, im decent, but i like DMRs and handguns.

But balancing them it's pretty hard it seems.