💣┇weapons-gadgets

[restive plover]

That's a huge part of why there are so many balance problems.

They created identities for these classes to fill, and then don't respect them.

[shut bane]

But then the matches are skewed in favor of one or two specific classes depending in game mode and map imo

[drowsy osprey]

yeah playing powershift with light snipers was hell

[shut bane]

Similarly, really building dense maps will become another heavy shotgun situation lol

[restive plover]

Heavy shotgun is powerful regardless of map because of how objectives work in this game

[shut bane]

If say that in both competitive and casual games, heavies wouldn’t be running it if the map was medium to long range centered, the obvious choice then would be lmgs or deags for performace

[restive plover]

And side modes are neat, but balance should really concern cashout more than anything else.

If something like sniper is stupid in a mode like powershift it should just be banned from the mode with no balance changes.

[restive plover]

Me when I use gateway/zipline/jump pad to launch the heavy into ideal range anyways:

[shut bane]

That’s assuming teamwork

[restive plover]

Me when the opposing team has to push us because they have to sit on top of the objects to win:

[sharp reef]

Tbf no class has their effective range, at least it doesn't seem like it by current design. Lights can fight at close, medium and long range. Mediums can fight at close, medium and now long range too and even Heavies now can fight at close, medium and long ranges.

The biggest issue about the model imo is, basically the medium has an option to play as the light's purpose, to deal massive damage and go back into cover to reposition or re-engage

[restive plover]

Light is slightly different than medium or heavy regarding range, since its main weakness is staying power.

Even so, most options are either long range(lh1, sr84,) or close range(m26, sh, m11, dagger, throwing knives, sword, etc.)

And both medium and heavy are mostly one range, with significant unbalanced outliers.

[tired minnow]

They should buff quick mele

[restive plover]

For medium, all three rifles are just "serviceable" in close quarters. Cl40 kills you for playing too close with it, pike now kills too slow and shares terrible hipfire with the revolver. Both melees are defensively oriented.

Turret and dematerializer are both meant to increase medium's close range competence in exchange for giving up heal beams support.

[azure prawn]

why do some have scope on akm and some dont?

[restive plover]

Model is the only weapon for medium that is incredibly strong for cqb in its own right.

[muted compass]

I hate how the only balance changes they implement are nerfs, everything is just going to feel so weak and not fun to use. They need to do massive buffs instead like helldivers did.

[restive plover]

For heavy, both m60 and ks23 have terrible falloff. Flamethrower, spear and sledge are all range locked. Sa1216 is a true blue shotgun.

Deagles and lewis both break heavy's intended close range nature. MGL technically has some range potential, but barely functions as a weapon. More importantly it isn't a weapon you can sit there and ttk race people with like the other two.

[sharp reef]

Really think the opposite, no class has it's effective range and I myself have played all classes on various ranges and also died to many things on various ranges by all classes.

No class sits at any distance, the only thing that was an exception was the light who had the only true sniper rifle until it got it's projectile and practically made it worse than any dmr.

Now with Season 4 that "range" identity is even shifted further because now both heavy and medium got their long range options.

[restive plover]

Both buffs and nerfs are needed, but a pve game is very different from PvP. Things can be overpowered without causing too much distress.

[muted compass]

I know pve and pvp are very different in balancing but still I fell like everyone can feel powerful without the game going to shit, Titanfall 2 does it very well. I just dont want the game to go in the same direction as r6 did with its nerf or nothing balancing tactic.

[sharp reef]

Also kinda funny how people say after today "OMG PIKE IS NOW USELESS"
even though you deal nearly 40 damage at max range now, you can still 4 shot a light. Like bruh. I am just glad people can't just hipfire spam to get that lucky 3 hit kill on a light

[restive plover]

I mean you can just ignore everything, sure.

[restive plover]

Model and deagles are probably the last outliers that really need adjusting.

Unless embark does another fucky wucky.

[weak kernel]

games where everything is juiced like titanfall or MW2 are very fun casually, but they tend to fall apart the more seriously you try to play them. titanfall 2 competitive is agonizing and centered around one extremely boring, extremely powerful gun

[restive plover]

What is that gun?

[weak kernel]

the C.A.R., a submachine gun that kills in four shots, almost no recoil, 36 rounds in the mag

[muted compass]

Its not just the damage and effectivness of the guns though, its the destruction and gadgets, I feel the canisters, explosives, fire, gas, smoke etc. are very underpowered and need a buff or a rework, it all feels too weak. Gas and fire together should make a huge destructive explosion for example, it would give the gadgets more use, not just a little area denial.

[weak kernel]

i don't disagree that I miss some of the volatility of season 1. I've said plenty that I'd like a world tour stop that that ups the general power level of the game to where it used to be at, maybe a little beyond

[sharp reef]

LH1 50 damage... whoooooops

[shut bane]

ok so what if, we reverted pike and sword nerfs, and buffed lh1 to match pikes range

[sharp reef]

Pike does not need to be reverted.

[shut bane]

then lh1 has the rof advantage, and pike gets the recoil control advantage

[restive plover]

Pike should the damage reverted to 59 but the firerate sent down to 150.

Overall ttk increase is the same as going from 59 to 47, but it maintains the damage per mag and, more importantly for range performance, the shots to kill.

A firerate nerf also has the knock on effect of reducing Hip-Fire efficiency.

[sharp reef]

Nah, honestly pike should be in a good spot where it fills the dmr role. Especially since the main issue was it's shots to kill up close when hipfire spamming.

Pike is a weapon where making it's TTK match other weapons it won't change much, since you always only look at an optimal gun fight, where everyone hits their shots. It was simply important to get rid of that 3 shot on close range, since that's what frustrated a lot of people including myself. It's ranged potential is the same, I don't see an issue with it anymore

[honest willow]

AK and Famas are not bad

[muted compass]

The spear needs a rework, instead of a dance as the secondary it should be thrown and knock back and pin the enemy if it hits a surface like a wall, then you could recall it or another spawns in your hand when you throw it. The dance could still be there but instead of a secondary attack you need to hold primary button down and it will then activate.

[primal mauve]

brah the sword blows chunks now

[fiery timber]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1120680690971852874/1303754354385354843/image.png?ex=672ce75c&is=672b95dc&hm=27356d8f10cc53acea1c13132fe97cf06687a32afa58d8b70f6e2b10b2305aa9&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1440&height=573 Pike = Dead

[restive plover]

Neither the akm nor the scar are "bad" per se, but they are mediocre and completely outclassed by the FAMAS.

[fiery timber]

Pike is still best 35-50m i think

[honest willow]

AK i recently picked up again and its fairly strong. I think it is near the same level as the FAMAS. SCAR on the other hand yes, is dogshit now

[restive plover]

Pike should take longer to kill than guns with shorter ranges than it, otherwise there's no trade for taking it.

[drowsy pasture]

Buff revolver

[fiery timber]

Is Famas really that great? it seems goated from the numbers. I never played it yet

[drowsy pasture]

Yes it is the best automatic rifle

[fiery timber]

It just needs more range and i'll play revolver in ranked

[drowsy pasture]

Yeah it needs better damage drop off range

[fiery timber]

whats funny is revolver is better than model close range if ur aim is insane

like significantly better

[drowsy pasture]

Ok

[sharp reef]

Pike is now where it needs to be, in it's DMR class.

[signal badger]

I want more defensive options like the goo grenade, maybe if you added soft body physics to the game you could have a jello wall. It could be like the Jello from the movie cloudy with a chance of meatballs. You could bounce on it and slowly walk through it.

You could also add quick sand to some of the levels. Walking through it you would slowly sink and if you fall through you just land on the lower floor of where you were.

[azure prawn]

should i get the glitch nade as a light m11 player with dash?

[young lava]

Flashes are funnier

[harsh frigate]

Pike now takes 4 shots to bodyshot a light, right?

Buried and dead

[young lava]

Dash, M11, flashes, invis and gate

Aren’t you a light main 😭

[azure prawn]

what else would u recommend?

[drifting nymph]

anyone have new holtow flamethrower screen from game? would love to see it before buying

[final prism]

I'm sad ab pike nerf but I'm also not gonna say it wasn't warranted. I think an rof decrease would have made more sense

The more I think about it the fairer the DMG nerf seems tbh I'm chill with it. Getting two mediums down in one mag with two bullets left was kinda wild

[prisma sail]

Should grenades be cookable?

[shell sonnet]

there should be a youtube video about it

[shell sonnet]

i think part of what of what makes grenades not be annoying is that you can avoid them
if you could cook them you could time it perfectly and throw it in a way that makes them unavoidable
not without a skill check, but it would suck to be hit by it

so id rather not have that

[prisma sail]

Yeah that's kinda how I thought about it after some reflection. Cookable would allow for higher skill ceiling throws, but also more unavoidable deaths. Might not be worth the trade

[inland lark]

reducing the rof wouldve just felt wrong, trying to click faster than you can fire would mess up peoples aim more than it already does

[plucky spade]

obviously, but miss one shot and you're gasping for air.
Also it only becomes better if you hit 2 headshots, simply because it fires faster than the shotty

But that requires you hit your headshots, rather than just a close up bodyshot

[north helm]

Personally I think heavy should get something like a tar Grenade that slows anyone who walks into it. Make it have the slow effect of walking in the water in Kyoto for easy coding and boom. New gadget

[signal badger]

Ya that would be cool! An ice grenade would be fun for Medium. They could use it to make enemies slip and slide into mines, or just use it as a movement boost for themselves.

[hallow leaf]

if any class gets a slow grenade it needs to medium, they need one to help their melee so bad

[split kettle]

what we really need is an acid grenade that deteriorates wepon quality. note that this only works on popular Light weapons.

[lofty sky]

Yes but its also so much more punishing with its dmg per mag.

[vale obsidian]

Sound like you just want to remove light

[split kettle]

yes

[restive blade]

day 8 of asking for a wing suit for light

[lament mountain]

bought the Holtow Sun skin for the pyro grenade and immediately realized it doesn't look particulary good. heck

[sinful dagger]

do you have a link to this spread?

[fiery timber]

yeah https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/edit?pli=1&gid=2136619021#gid=2136619021

[heavy haven]

i had the evasive dash in season one why dont i have it anymore

[round sluice]

Can we get a unique inspect animation for the Holtow hammer? As it stands you can’t inspect your receipts or really even see them.

[azure prawn]

whats a good L loutout rn?

whats meta

[tidal cave]

W on the holtow pyro skin, still waiting for a molotov XD

[spark hamlet]

Might switch to pyro nade for a bit just because of how much I love Holtow’s branding

[shut bane]

Sword, dash, vanish bomb, taser, sonar is a pretty L loadout for L players

[rough carbon]

I run this but I trade taser with tracking dart to take out enemies from a distance who have 5 hp

[icy sparrow]

Look up pole vaulting for spear

[icy sparrow]

Spear pole vaulting

[lavish swallow]

honestly for sword i've been using dash, goo nades, vanish bombs, and frags. works really well imo

with stun in reserve in case of lights/charge and slam heavies

[warm gyro]

I forgot how much v9s slaps

[bright moat]

lmao

[boreal laurel]

It’s low-key OP except not even low-key any more

[restive plover]

It really is not.

[shut bane]

it is nice, not op but feels really good

[hallow leaf]

whats op is the fucking m11

and sh19

[shut bane]

its meh, I havent had a big issue with it tbh

id rather m11 than a cloak light with sh19 thats true though

[languid crag]

m1911 with extended magazine skin would go hard on lights pistol

[coral root]

Please make a sun skin for the vanishing bomb where on impact it goes supernova

[ember prawn]

ah yes so instead of vanishing you it vanishes the whole map

[crimson veldt]

Which gun has the quickest TTK assuming you hit all your shots?

Right now, I feel like FAMAS is the king of TTK

Lots of damage across a very decent range

[fresh estuary]

More melee for heavy???

[unkempt moss]

#buffgoogun

People need to stop kickflipping the cashout with demat.

It’s not competitive. “Tech” like this has no business in a shooter. It’s not fun, it’s embarrassing to be apart of this community doing childish things like this in a serious game. Embark needs to fix it

[ancient arch]

That's the other way to utilize Demat! No we won't stop doin that

[unkempt moss]

Grow up!

[ancient arch]

LoL dude take game seriously,You ain't in real tournament bro game are for fun

[unkempt moss]

This game is meant to be esports. Not Fortnite screw around fun time.

They removed GooFO, thank god. Now dumb uncompetitive interactions like this need to go.

We need the game to be as boring as possible so we can have a proper competitive game. It’s the only way we will have something to watch on twitch with proper pro play

If I wanted to have fun I’d play a fun game

I main defibs because I get all of my validation from a video game and need wins.

[ancient arch]

Yeah If it were a real esports tournament situation, of course those silly things like should be banned

[serene glade]

People play this game for fun?

I have a training session with my tourney team tomorrow at 4pm to get ready for worlds

So yeah remove kick flips for sure please. It's ruining the integrity of the game

[shut bane]

No nvm actually, we play to complain on discord

[unkempt moss]

At least one person is speaking some truth. Has some common sense

[ancient arch]

Zamnn these try hard sweaty players won't let us have fun lol!

[serene glade]

Yeah ok biney

[unkempt moss]

Deb trying to kill Dex in the lake is nuts

[serene glade]

She could just defib him, I'm glad that's gone untouched. My team still has a shot this upcoming scrims block

[unkempt moss]

Defibs are a cornerstone of this game. Perfectly balanced.

These clowns should take notes. Keep up the good work Embark. Use the defibs as the balancing standard please.

[azure prawn]

can the m11 have a scope?

[serene glade]

No, sorry. Sights aren't allowed in the comp scene. So just stick it out without one

[unkempt moss]

M11 with scope could be fun, knock that shit off. We need only serious suggestions.

[serene glade]

Someone here gets it thank you. Lot of money on the line

Sick of funtards, compchuds stay winning

[winter badge]

honestly they need to make defib a specialization and or give the movement options that mediums have to lights instead

also #buffXP54

[unkempt moss]

Defib needs a buff to be competitive viable. Multiple charges or faster cooldown. My entire team should be back online as quickly as possible after losing a fight.

I haven’t used a coin in months thanks to defib. As it should be.

Coins are for those who lose fights with repercussions. As a medium defib main I haven’t lost a fight with proper consequences in so long. I love it.

[winter badge]

idk how viable of an option it is in terms of coding, im sure it isnt easy, but they gotta do something with the damage that mediums and heavies have. In every other game that involves heals/ tanks they do less damage than the "DPS" class.

so they need to either make all guns do less damage to lights but maintain damage against mediums/heavies, or increase the damage across the board for lights aka the "dps" class

[unkempt moss]

Revert pike and model nerfs please

[serene glade]

I think if they just add a headshot multiplier to the model. It might be in a relevant spot. Kinda sad how hard medium has fallen from the meta. They are literally so useless

[winter badge]

which i assume would involve each "class" having their own damage profiles vs a straight "this gun does this amount of damage across the board" because with that mentality, lights will forever fall behind if they get 2-4 tap by every gun in the game

[unkempt moss]

I need a way to defend myself when I’m trying to get to a revive.

The way we are now, defibs mains are shooting marshmallows

[serene glade]

I think light mains should be doxxed and then strung up to a light pole or suspended structure while everyone gets to throw shit at them

[unkempt moss]

I could probably get my defib numbers up if we did that.

[serene glade]

Suspended structures would finally have a place in the metagame

[unkempt moss]

I’m so fat I’m eating poorly cut little Caesars in bed and watching Dexter.

Let’s get some defib buff ideas in chat

[serene glade]

[winter badge]

i assume by "bed" you mean a sheetless mattress on the floor?

[unkempt moss]

Nah.

I’m fat not a degenerate

[winter badge]

with a single chair for furniture

[serene glade]

My palico is taking legal action on me rn. Any tips on what load out to bring to the first hearing?

[smoky jackal]

take the officers gun as soon as you can

[winter badge]

lets just switch to BO6, i hear its in a better state

[unkempt moss]

The brain surgeon just came through the window with a chair after Vogel. She didn’t move

[serene glade]

Wish I was playing gung ho m60 in cold war

Dexter just stuffs evidence in his pocket, and nobody reports it ever

Actually you know what. I shit on embark, but props to them for not having their game be as dog ass as bo6

[unkempt moss]

Defib

[serene glade]

Yeah I ain't winning this shit

[winter badge]

idk, i feel the only thing embark has done well in season 4 is the art department

[serene glade]

I didn't say they did anything well. Bo6 is just that dog shit

[unkempt moss]

Deb went from being a somewhat okay character with growth leading towards something back to an absolute shit bag. It’s crazy.

[winter badge]

love seeing double mediums or heavies minimum for 4 seasons straight

[serene glade]

Deb ran out of people to have sex with so she turns to her brother

[winter badge]

and i love grinding an hour of my life in a tourney win to lose the exact same amount in 7 min the very next round

[serene glade]

Treating classes as roles in this game is it's biggest downfall tbh

[winter badge]

cheese and rice about deb xD

[unkempt moss]

I think the recoil needs to be reverted on the LMGs, nerf deagles, increase KS reload speed.

Heavies are borderline fun right now and that’s gotta stop.

[winter badge]

with my bronze and unranked teammate in a full plat lobby*

[unkempt moss]

KS should have to be reload by using coins. It’s way too strong.

[serene glade]

I out damaged my AK teammate with dual blades. Gonna need a dual blades nerf

[winter badge]

maybe its a skill issue on my part, but it feels bad when heavies hit you one time with their actual gun, proceed to rpg then charge and slam you to death

[unkempt moss]

Working as intended. Heavies shouldn’t have decent primaries.

They’re a tank class.

[serene glade]

Let's make the deagles function as a marksman rifle instead of run and gun!

[smoky jackal]

then CnS needs a longer charge up time

[winter badge]

i think if they just made the 130 damage upfront, to be at the end, it would be a perfect specialization

[serene glade]

You got clown emojid. G fucking G

[winter badge]

the only thing light has going for it rn is the sh1900/m11 and stun-gunning melee users

and gateway

^

light being the "dps" class has to be the biggest joke embark has made, when other classes do it just as fast with 100 and 200 more health

[unkempt moss]

I play light sometimes and wonder if I’m playing the same game as other light players. The weapons feel great and as long as I don’t run out in to loving arms of the other team I smack people.

[winter badge]

i do well as light and as much mess as i talk i still love the role, but it feels so bad in ranked compared to the other two roles

[smoky jackal]

try playing it in higher elo ranked

[unkempt moss]

What elo do you want me to run it at?

[winter badge]

the v9s, sh1900, m11 are the staples though unless your god status which is kinda a cop out considering if you were god status on any other gun on any other role, it would be better than a light

i think lights need the movement tech that mediums have I.E the jump pad and zipline, it doesnt make sense for them to be the fastest role if they cant assist their team in it, makes no sense why mediums would get heals, revives, movement

i did well with the m26 too, i liked it

but i feel like if you take a good sh1900 player vs a good m26 player, the sh1900 will win every time

[smoky jackal]

the best way to stop M movement would be so they cant insta slide as soon as press the run button

[serene glade]

Light value goes up if defibs are gone unironically. Picks matter more and hit and run flanking is viable

[unkempt moss]

True.

[serene glade]

No I'm fine with removing it

[smoky jackal]

glitch nade/barrel should stop a target that is currently being defibbed

[unkempt moss]

Yeah let’s go ahead and remove it.

Had a good run. Too good really

The value of light goes up, heavy goes down. It brings both in line.

[winter badge]

or if they gave lights glitch trap, which is pretty much the only counter to defib

[serene glade]

Fortnite got a bunch of people together for the virtual Travis Scott concert. Let's get a giant lobby up in the finals, but its a funeral service for the defib. So we can all give it a proper send off

[unkempt moss]

Lights aren’t having to spend 149 health to just have all of their work get removed in an instant

No defib is the single most meaningful change you can make to the game.

[smoky jackal]

would love to fight 3 instead of 9 every teamfight so yeah defib being gone would be great

[serene glade]

Yeah im tired of having to build around defibs. But people will tell you defib isn't that good, or isn't an issue. Sure thing pal 👍

[unkempt moss]

This guy sounds like a patriot. I love it

The value of so many underpowered things goes up with no defib. Coins mean more. Health means more. Cooldowns mean more.

Right now 90% of the tools in the game are invalidated by a single gadget.

Defibs are stronger than almost any specialization in the game.

[winter badge]

it'd probs be for the best yeah

tall ask though

[unkempt moss]

Imagine a finals where you out position, out shoot your opponents. And they are actually punished for having to revive

[winter badge]

honestly as anti-fun as it would be, locking roles would could also be an option, triple of anything can be a little oppressing

[smoky jackal]

role q would fix a lot but a lot of people say it will hurt the player base (it wont)

[unkempt moss]

At least with 3L and 3H they have to actually play the same game. Rather than 6M.

[winter badge]

or at least role lock in ranked, casual could be whatever

i once avoided two heavy CnS's only to be charged by the third, all of which occurred simultaneously in a room

[unkempt moss]

The problem is you could do 3M without defib and it would be about where it should be. I like the mixed classes set up. It allows for more creative freedom when playing.

[winter badge]

triple lights can do work on a point

[cyan bobcat]

Hallo peopel

[winter badge]

removing defib would probably be a nice change of pace for the game, but i feel like its a tall order

[cyan bobcat]

Wdym insane burst dmg

[winter badge]

the only other option would be role locking

[unkempt moss]

I think they should have done a holtow variant with no defib to see how it went.

Just call it No Insurance or something.

[cyan bobcat]

Yes, model is op but you can do the same w/ any gun and any class (heavy is just harder so thats something)

I meant the cover thing, but yeah, if you hit your crits then you can get 128dmg w/ AKM pretty quick if youre close enough

[winter badge]

terminal attack is disliked (unless that was just the season 3 ranked census) but the no heals/ defib in it is wonderful. the pinging from across the map is definetely annoying though

[cyan bobcat]

Also the defending team sometimes has those freaky spawn camper Lights

[winter badge]

i feel like with the nerf to pike they only increased the model usage

[lime salmon]

sword still broken

[winter badge]

though i feel the fcar is slept on with all this model talk

[smoky jackal]

how?

[winter badge]

i didnt mind terminal attack, definetely hated as a ranked mode though

[cyan bobcat]

True. I think the range/pellet spread is the issue w/ model. Reducing it and a tiny bit of dmg nerf would make the gun balanced

[lime salmon]

they dash do 2 swings and its over

[cyan bobcat]

Skill issue

[unkempt moss]

The model probably should have been a lever action rifle if that’s how they wanted it to function.

[smoky jackal]

aim then? it takes a full 3-4 seconds to do that

[lime salmon]

it wouldnt be that bad if i could actually hear them aproaching but the audio is terrible

[smoky jackal]

same for model on M or CnS on H

[winter badge]

dont even get me started on that broken lmg audio

[cyan bobcat]

Use a better headset, one that has surround sound

[lime salmon]

i am

[winter badge]

or even the color outlines, as of late, it feels like purple/ pink enemy outlines are a different color making it impossible to tell how many players and on what team is still alive

[unkempt moss]

The FCAR should have a lower fire rate and higher per bullet damage. Giving it a nice recoil pattern to compensate. Like an in between the AKM and Pike.

[cyan bobcat]

Then, you should be able to hear the difference between enemy footsteps and teammate's. Enemy footsteps are much louder.

[unkempt moss]

Right now the FCAR seems like a less consistent AKM.

[lime salmon]

i have the opposite effect, teammates i can hear enemies i cant

[unkempt moss]

This would be fine. Maybe a better damage fall off to go with it.

[winter badge]

the FCAR recoil pattern seems more muted than what it was before, i feel i get noticeably quicker kills compared to the akm, but it could just be that im inexperienced on the akm, because with the red dot on the akm the visual recoil is a little jarring for me

[cyan bobcat]

I think there might have been a setting in the audio or gameplay settings, where you can adjust the footsteps' of how loud you hear them. I might be wrong though

And if there aint, the devs should add that in. I think even CS has that

[unkempt moss]

I actually like the opposite. Irons on the FCAR feel best to me, while AK with red dot feels better.

[winter badge]

honestly the medium and heavy are my least played class, i was light all the way until mid season 4 when i made the switch, and i only made the switch because i desperately want that diamond xp-54 and i just cant compete with 90% of the lobby being double or triple mediums

[unkempt moss]

Heavy main here. I wish the deagles were more effective up close and less so at range.

The hip fire feels terrible

[azure prawn]

do u guys use the scope on the m11?

[cyan bobcat]

Its dual pistols what did you expect?

[winter badge]

the red dot on the m11 and v9s are amazing

[unkempt moss]

I didn’t expect them to be sniper rifles over hip fire dependent. That’s for sure

[azure prawn]

i didnt even know that m11 has a scope xD

better than iron sight, which ive been using all the time

[winter badge]

gn people, my rant is over and i cant wait to play this game tomorrow and do it all over again just like in true apex legends fashion

[unkempt moss]

Firing a pistol single handed effectively at any sort of range is extremely difficult. Doing it twice rapidly makes even more sense, especially with such a large caliber.

Hip firing is really the only thing it could be somewhat decent at.

[cyan bobcat]

.50 action express is HUGE.
This guy has a vertical grip and STILL almost cant handle it.
https://youtu.be/3bOj-_dW6dc?si=-vsmlWOhOkbbUP0F

[unkempt moss]

Right, so why should this gun be good at range over up close.

[cyan bobcat]

Yup. .50AE can be good at long ranges, but only if you fire it slow, and have good aim, and the latter is VERY hard to do if you are using it one handedly, with 2 guns

[unkempt moss]

So firing two at long ranges, 50m+, while using both iron sights one turned sideways, makes more sense than being more accurate from the hip at 10m?

Not even perfectly accurate, but more accurate than it currently is.

[cyan bobcat]

No, it doesnt make sense at all, just like a 5.56 on a longer barrel gun (pike) making more dmg than another 5.56 (FCAR)

But remember, that this is set inside a video game world, so it doesnt have to make sense!

[unkempt moss]

I thought the FCAR was a 7.62.

Okay, well I want the deagles to be better up close than at range. Regardless of what video game it’s in.

[mighty orbit]

The deagles are good asf tho ngl

Also this guy knows a lot about guns

[unkempt moss]

I use them for the headshot challenges because of how consistent they are at range. It’s wild.

[cyan bobcat]

In sense of power, 7.62x39 is almost identical to 5.56x45. 5.56 has a longer casing, but 7.62 has a wider casing, making the amount power on the projectile almost the same.

[mighty orbit]

Bro how do you even gain this much knowledge about guns

[cyan bobcat]

Autism

[mighty orbit]

Gotta be an fbi agent or something bc there’s no way

[unkempt moss]

The 7.62 is a measurement of the casing?

[cyan bobcat]

Actually my country (finland) has so strict gun laws that ive become jealous of american ecosystem of guns

[mighty orbit]

Probably for the best tbh

[cyan bobcat]

7.62mm=the diameter of the projectile
39mm=the length of the cartridge (where the gunpowder is in)

Hence the cartridge name 7.62x39mm

[unkempt moss]

The FCAR says it’s a 7.62x51.

Which is more comparable to a .308

[cyan bobcat]

Then, it should actually deal MORE dmg than the pike (based on the keltec su 16)

[unkempt moss]

I guess I’m not understanding how any of this disproves that the deagles should be better up close than at range.

The .50s don’t really have any business being as good at range as they are. I’d rather them have a decent hip fire so they are more usable at an effective range.

[cyan bobcat]

Realistically? The deagle is ass. Yes, its one of the most powerful pistols in the world, but the recoil on the thing and the size is way too big. Id rather use the Smith&Wesson 500 or Colt Python if i wanted a high caliber pistol

[unkempt moss]

Okay, but why does this mean the .50s should have better range than hip fire?

[cyan bobcat]

It does. The recoil makes it like that. Also its akimbo so double the cons

Anyways gotta take a shower real quick

[azure prawn]

would u recommend using the dot ont he m11? some say iron sight is better
dont know if i should buy it

[drifting pine]

that makes perfect sense??

bullet size != shell size and longer barrel makes all the diff

[azure prawn]

Opinion on Dagger?

[inner pebble]

very fun to play with, coming from someone with 75% xp gathered for lvl 7 dagger

anyways, what gadgets or specializations can i use to grind that contact "interrupt cashout steal" besides the stun gun?

[wicked sluice]

Glitch grenade I think

[inner pebble]

ay thanks!

[copper sinew]

Charge'n'slam works sometimes I think and maybe it will work better this time since Embark implemented environmental kills recognition so maybe the cashout interrupts are detected better right now too.

[azure prawn]

sounds great, is it usable in ranked?

[wicked sluice]

Maybe something like dematerializer might work then

[inner pebble]

not in higher levels

melee in general is worse in higher levels imo

[crisp heart]

my hand!

[azure prawn]

thats so sad
i rlly wanna learn the dagger but if i cant play it in ranked... why should i learn it

[inner pebble]

for fun. i personally love melee fights than ranged ones

[brazen mango]

best light loadout that me + most other high tier EU light players run, I dont think dash is viable and even then dash players run very similar gadgets in higher elo.

[drifting nymph]

guys, what's your picks instead barricade?

[fleet brook]

It's an akimbo weapon so "realistically " it would have horrid aim all around and secondly the deagles require good headshot aim to be a weapon worth running on anything that isn't a light

[fleet brook]

Playing to win or playing for fun?

[fleet brook]

Sidenote playing heavy in a mid range burst weapon meta is definitely an experienced

[drifting nymph]

win win

[bronze spade]

nice to see thermal but no 93r?

[azure prawn]

oh looks good!
didnt the lh1 got nerfed? so could i play the m11 instead and keep the gadgets like u?

Also many ppl told me that dash is a MUST and im trolling if i use smth else
for example cause cloak got nerfed and it makes to much noise

Im just a new player who wants to figure out stuff

[brazen mango]

LH1 is better but M11 is much easier to use

Cloak is the only worthwhile light spec, every good light I know runs cloak, there is maybe 1 or 2 good dash users and even they admit cloak is better.

[azure prawn]

Oh okay, ill buy and try it then, thanks!

[azure prawn]

ur opinion on the other weapons? also on dagger?

[brazen mango]

cloak is not easy to use against good players but its also very strong

[azure prawn]

Thanks!

[azure prawn]

im buying the glitch nade then, lets see how it works

[azure prawn]

use a red dot or iron sight? m11

[brazen mango]

red dot imo

[bronze spade]

why the auto s tier?

[brazen mango]

the M26?

[bronze spade]

yeah

[brazen mango]

its really strong if you run triple shotguns, the best EU team runs HML triple shotgun

[bronze spade]

i started to main light this season since they noobed med, ok that make sense i do see that combo a lot

last season it was db

[loud merlin]

how did you guys do the 25 headshots from 50m distance

[prisma sail]

Powershift

[sacred scroll]

Does NOT having a sight on the weapons like the revolver have benefits?

[gentle flower]

Less visual recoil

[sacred scroll]

Cool good to know

[deft ibex]

buff the xp for data reshaper

[drowsy pasture]

Absolutely terrible ranking

[brazen mango]

says who

[drowsy pasture]

Me

[brazen mango]

NA light main, let me guess, you run dash?

[drowsy pasture]

No I run demat

[restive plover]

Ah the most meta light strategy, playing medium instead.

[drowsy pasture]

Yup

[brazen mango]

what exactly do your base your opinion on, do you play light at a level where weapon meta matters?

[viral talon]

embar studios please fix the bug in the animation of the M60 weapon in the skin grit & glory , that when you wipe it, the rag passes through the installed sight. pls🥲

[fleet brook]

True European moment Insulting someone for being NA

[brazen mango]

its not because they ARE NA, its because they PLAY in NA, NA doesnt have any high tier light players, and the few that do exist dont run meta, EU has a lot more good lights.

[daring shore]

wtf is this

I will have to agree with the one saying terrible ranking

[brazen mango]

cool!

[serene glade]

Name 1 good EU light player

[sand monolith]

Is that a real question

[brazen mango]

Carnifex, Some0ne, Robinzki, Alphonse,

[serene glade]

Yeah I didn't ask

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/damn-you-got-the-whole-squad-laughing-damn-bro-you-got-the-whole-squad-laughing-not-funny-unfunny-gif-21764390

[dry oak]

Bro has dementia

[brazen mango]

literally all good Light players have been EU

there has never been a top 3 Light that was NA besides maybe Nate 💀

[serene glade]

Funchuds stay winning, comptards stay seething

[brazen mango]

buddy is onto nothing 🗣️ 🔥

[sand monolith]

I love how casuals act like people don’t have fun playing comp just because they don’t

Erm I’m not good enough to play comp so I don’t find it fun therefore everyone else who plays it must be having no fun

[brazen mango]

they cant imagine people having fun actually competing at a high level and idk why

[brazen mango]

didnt even name myself see how humble I am @sand monolith

[sand monolith]

Listen to how MISERABLE we are…

[serene glade]

Trent you "compete" at a high level in a niche game where if any good players from any actual game came over you would be irrelevant even tho you already are tbh

[sand monolith]

Humble? You mean correct

[brazen mango]

you mean the same players that competed in twitch rivals and got spanked for 6 hours straight by Balise?

[serene glade]

Idk what the fuck that is

[brazen mango]

bro is once again not cooking 🗣️🔥

[sand monolith]

The same players that tried in s1 and said the game is too complicated like shroud lmao

[serene glade]

Enjoy comp bud idk what to tell you

[sand monolith]

Casual players are literally the quit having fun image

[brazen mango]

Check how miserable these people are, there is nothing funny or enjoyable about comp!!!

[serene glade]

I never said they were miserable, I just think you are all insufferable

[sand monolith]

the guy starting shit for no reason

[serene glade]

Yeah because it's fun!

[brazen mango]

starts shit for no reason
calls other people insufferable
life with zero self awareness must be cool

I will never understand why people hate comp/good Players so much in these games, hating people that dont even know you exist is just crazy work

[sand monolith]

But.. but.. comp players ask for nerfs…

[sonic reef]

Why the hell is smoke only restricted to light ?? Imo mediums need it more 🙏

[wild isle]

It's definitely an attempt to bring more utility to light.

Medium previously had all of the best utility gadgets in the game, while light's utility tools like tracker and bore weren't worth taking over offensive gadgets like grenades.

[fleet brook]

It's not they're not good enough I've been on both sides of the fence it's just unfun being limited and comp play is very limiting

[brazen mango]

yeah for fun till he realizes its dogshit and I make fun of him until he goes back to LH1

he deserves it

[unkempt moss]

Can we keep the the fun chat out of here please. This isn’t fun-giggles its weapons-gadgets. I will not warn you again.

[frosty jasper]

@brazen mango why do you think m26 is better than sh1900?

[brazen mango]

more total damage, more pressure and more uptime in teamfights

[frosty jasper]

Best spec and gadgets with it?

[frosty jasper]

Can’t see spec, no goo grenade?

[restive plover]

Best light specialization is cloak, goo grenade is mostly memes.

[frosty jasper]

It has so many uses though. Defense, traversal, escape

[frosty jasper]

Do you use scope or iron sight for lh1

[shut bane]

I think dash is lights best spec

[unkempt moss]

Not in high elo

[shut bane]

Cloak is something that will increase your chances of escaping or closing distance but it never guarantees it, wheras dash is somewhat the same but it alows for much better positioning

[unkempt moss]

In high elo dash is a death sentence.

Because they don’t miss shots in high elo. You just get traced down.

[shut bane]

Well you gotta shoot back obviously, can’t just expect the damage to stop coming in because you dashed, gotta use it as some extra layer of evasion while firing

[spring oasis]

Very interesting

[unkempt moss]

And because it’s high elo, your opinion does not matter here. Good day.

Really you should have to be top 500 at the bare minimum to post in these feedback channels.

[shut bane]

All heavies need is one motion detector the second they hear a light go invis

[unkempt moss]

Maybe get some decent changes to the game

[shut bane]

Also this isn’t the feedback channel

[unkempt moss]

Yeah that’s exactly what a low elo player would say

[shut bane]

I don’t even remember talking to you dawg lmao

[unkempt moss]

I’m high elo which means everyone is talking to me

[shut bane]

Ah of course my bad king

[unkempt moss]

And my opinion needs to be inserted in places

[copper sinew]

Nah Embark seems to be pointing their efforts towards the casual playerbase more so it is actually more likely that they are not listening to the feedback channel as much, because players that use discord are less casual by defualt already

[unkempt moss]

Yeah this is a problem. Casuals don’t know what fun is.

[shut bane]

Chad casuals who aren’t in the discord and enjoy the game

[unkempt moss]

They just want the easy way out and to nerf spear

[spring oasis]

Casuals have bad opinions

[unkempt moss]

This is correct. Anyone below top 500 is a casual and does not get their macaroni art leaderboard put on the fridge.

[shut bane]

We should rename this chat the fun-giggles

[serene glade]

if i sent a video of me giggling with my friends, can i get the message pinned to the server please

its high elo of course tho dont worry

[unkempt moss]

I didn’t put 2k hours in to the game for me to have my opinions invalidated by casuals trying to have fun. I do not care if they out number and out spend me on the game. I AM WHAT MATTERS

[shut bane]

You know what you should do, you should quit the game in protest, then embark will surely respond

[unkempt moss]

I have come to far. Too much of my personality and self worth is tied to this game. I cannot.

[shut bane]

Then your willpower is not strong enough, typical casual

[unkempt moss]

That’s what they said at the hospital when I tried to kermit.

But I did not succeed at that because I succeed at The Finals.

I am Embarks chosen top 500 player. I must lead the way for you casuals.

Just trust what I say. I have literally never been wrong about this game

When I come back I expect you to be spouting my exact opinions… or I WILL call you casual again and compare ranks.

[shut bane]

Nah nah nah here’s what you do, complain that embark doesn’t listen to the pros and content creators and that it’s killing the game, quit publicly but not actually, then come back next season anyway after embark sponsors you

[serene glade]

put your jacket back on

i could make a low effort video posting stating why my opinions are right and yours are wrong

i will use a mic from walmart and not adjust the audio sliders at all tho

[unkempt moss]

This is an acceptable thing to do in society. It is not skin crawling levels if cringe, and it does not scare off women. It is normal.

[prisma sail]

I am a casual, I don't watch pros or content creators, and I choose weapons and gadgets based on what's fun, and no one can stop me

[shut bane]

You are clearly a menace to the game, keep going

[unkempt moss]

Stop that now! You probably want my beloved defib nerfed too

Stop playing the game for fun!! Tie your self worth to the game and take it extremely seriously.

[prisma sail]

I don't give a shit about defib, or anything else. I'm gonna use spear and anti grav

[frosty jasper]

Do you think m26 is good

[shut bane]

He would know, after all I’m sure he’s got multiple “what the top 1 light player looks like in the finals” videos

[unkempt moss]

It is only strong in the EU triple shotgun meta.

[frosty jasper]

What about NA?

[copper sinew]

Imagine not griding through your sanity, sleep and eating schedule just to get Emerald in world tour month one

[unkempt moss]

Other than that the double barrel out performs it in every way. Also, the M26 borderlines on fun to use which is a no no in my game.

I also tie my self worth to the performance of European players.

[frosty jasper]

So if I’m a solo queue console NA light

[unkempt moss]

There are only good light players in Europe

[frosty jasper]

What’s my best build

[unkempt moss]

So that means you are bad. Now worship a European with me. Any one of them

[unkempt moss]

Model and jump pad

[copper sinew]

I would assume your best build would be swapping to medium. Second best option is probably sword or something I dunno I don't play light

[frosty jasper]

Everyone knows you need MnK to play medium lmao

[copper sinew]

Anyway I would like to see a small buff to the KS-23, maybe something like it dealing 400 dmg per shot so it feels fair against model mediums.

[unkempt moss]

You do not. You only need to be medium, top 500, and model and you delete everything on the map.

If you are not too 500 you are not of worth.
#buffgoogun

[copper sinew]

Holy shit I just noticed, you are the John Embark in the flesh

no wonder you get the balance of the game so well

[brazen mango]

this guy is actually real as fuck holy

NA meta is so messed up cuz nobody in that region can play light effectively

[sand monolith]

I’m just saying people should let others enjoy whatever

[drifting pine]

can some skin connosieur tell me the skin reward if you achieve emerald WT badge?

[unkempt moss]

Do not relent on the casuals. We can get them to shut up and make embark listen to only us. We’re almost there.

We are better than them, brother. They do not have value.

[serene glade]

hello, i cannot think for myself and need meta loadouts, what meta loadout we be do using this fine evening. also what skin should be using too

[unkempt moss]

Here we are going. The king of casuals. I see you in the game feedback saying the casualest things and it get worser and worser. Do not come here to say thing.

[serene glade]

so sorry massah

[unkempt moss]

#buffgoogun

[short trout]

When will PC be playable again?

[unkempt moss]

Sound like your pc is casualer than you are.

[short trout]

How do I get to play THE FINALS?

[serene glade]

did you read your syllabus?

[short trout]

Where to read?

[unkempt moss]

Just look back in Gamefeedback posting. When you see top 500 like us know it is true and it will not wronging you.

There is many good resource. Become top 500 and you will have value.

Then you can also look down on people bad at game. This is the true finals.

[sonic reef]

dude lights have the best gadgets out of all classes

[unkempt moss]

Only a casual could say this and not laughing at themselves.

[sonic reef]

prove me wrong then?

[serene glade]

does light have the defib?

[unkempt moss]

Jump pad and zipline are best in game.

[sonic reef]

does medium have smoke?

[serene glade]

you think smoke is equivalent to defib?

[sonic reef]

for traversal yeah they are decent but still light has traversal gadgets too

[unkempt moss]

Defib is decent. Only casual think smoke is good lol

I am top 500. You are not

[sonic reef]

yh

[unkempt moss]

You have no value in world or community

[serene glade]

im getting trolled, i cant get baited, thats what i do. ill back out of this

[sonic reef]

what a great and important info that i care about

[unkempt moss]

It mean I am better than you.

You probably want defib nerf as well.

[serene glade]

casualtards stay losing

[unkempt moss]

Only casual want that. Casual CB

[sonic reef]

dude i am main medium and heavy

why the hell would i want that

all your arguing points are illogical and dont make sense

[serene glade]

i only defib people if they fit harrys code

[unkempt moss]

You think playing M or H make you top 500 CB?

Everyone know only dark passengers of top 500 are what should be talking here

[wild isle]

Light not having defib immediately DQ's it

[sonic reef]

avg dexter sigma

[serene glade]

dont tell him that, hell say smoke grenades are better

[sonic reef]

so does heavy ?? whats your point

[wild isle]

Heavy has C4 and more than approximately 8 health

[unkempt moss]

Heavy has defib? No I know you are dumb

[sonic reef]

i prefer smoke but its not better

[sonic reef]

light has gateway/breach charge/thermal bore

[unkempt moss]

gateway is good. Only good light gadget

[wild isle]

Like I get a case for saying that Gateway is strong but smoke and the some of the worst destruction items in the game?

[sonic reef]

its not the ONLY one but yeah its good

[unkempt moss]

It only good

[sonic reef]

My whole point in this conversation that we either as mediums/heavy need gadget buffs or new ones

[wild isle]

Light is basically pigeonholed into always taking gateway and imo sonar and glitch are very strong contenders but those still get blown out of the water by medium

[sonic reef]

bec imo light has it better

[serene glade]

my point is that you are wrong

[unkempt moss]

Post rank in all seasons. Now

[sonic reef]

you still didnt prove it

[serene glade]

neither did you?

[sonic reef]

i litteraly did tho

[serene glade]

witerawy

[unkempt moss]

Goog is known casual poster. Do not worry about him

He try to tell Trent what to do and Trent is better than me at game. Trent smart.

[serene glade]

giggleposting in 2024 is the new meta

[unkempt moss]

You shut up! I would also laugh like HA HA HA if I hit RPG when among friend

[wild isle]

RPG in 2025 will have 4 damage and instant kill on self damage

[serene glade]

trent giggles at rpg, i giggle at my lawsuit with my abused palico. we are not the same

[unkempt moss]

He laugh because he so good at game unlike you and defense attorney. You are bad at game.

[serene glade]

i hate singaporean posting

my mental is shot

[unkempt moss]

Singapore The Finals community is better than you

We all laugh like HA HA HA when among friend

[serene glade]

you always did have trouble saying brian

[unkempt moss]

biney

[spring oasis]

if game good... how game bad?

[unkempt moss]

Easy. Top 500 good, other player bad.

Outside of top 500 have no value to world.

[serene glade]

wheres your proof that you enjoy playing game mr top 500?

[unkempt moss]

4k hours in game is proof CB

[analog dawn]

What’s your rs champ?

[signal talon]

What's the best weapon in the game?

Is it sword?

[unkempt moss]

46k

[unkempt moss]

Yes. Now go use it

[analog dawn]

Doubt it

[unkempt moss]

You are doubter no matter what I say. You are dumb.

[analog dawn]

You are a troll or just a jackass

[unkempt moss]

You will say the no matter what I do unless I agree with you. You are weak minded.

[analog dawn]

Insulting ppl on this server is that all you do? What else am I?

[analog dawn]

“You will say the no matter what I do unless I agree with you” great English man but yeah I’m the dumb one😆

[serene glade]

making fun of someone because they are from singapore or something is kinda fucked up. hes trying his best with his english. hate to see it. trumps america right here

[fleet brook]

Less dopamine when hitting a two shot though

[fleet brook]

Grapple>>>

[fleet brook]

No casuals can often identify issues they just have the wrong solutions and the fact that they are the majority of your player base means those bad opinions keep your lights on

[plain wasp]

YEAHHH I HATE FOREIGNERS

[serene glade]

based

[analog dawn]

If you dish it out you need to be able to take it. Hating on anyone not in the top 500 is just brain dead only reason I’m taking the time. On top of the personal insults for no reason but thanks for the input👍

[fleet brook]

True

[spring oasis]

they cannot identify issues, they die to everything equally. They are like broken digital clocks that tell time on a 24hr scale

[fleet brook]

You had to edit that several times you casual typer

[vernal sequoia]

What channel do I use to ask for a squad to play with?

[spring oasis]

yes

[fleet brook]

But no casuals know when something doesn't feel right and therefore know when there's an issue and what feels good vs bad to fight

"Pros " think they know the issues for the wider player base but there opinion is often over sighted and there solutions terrible for the average player

[serene glade]

no problem, im glad to share inputs whenever

[analog dawn]

He had no problem calling ppl dumb and worthless in English I just felt the need to say something maybe I did too much. It just ticked me off

[unkempt moss]

My English is as good as your finals play you terrible player

[analog dawn]

You got me there I’m only at 44k rs atleast I’m not worthless right?😂

[unkempt moss]

Is that Ruby?

[analog dawn]

Rank 198 = yes

[unkempt moss]

You are smart and good then.

[prisma sail]

The lfg ones. They might be hidden, so go to channels and roles to select your region and enable them

[spring oasis]

casuals think spear needs to be nerfed

they are incapable of making reads about anything because they die to everything. They provide a lot of garbage that clogs up the channel and maybe happen to provide one piece that actually does need changing that good players clocked immediately and provided feedback on without whining because they died to a spear player one too many times

[vernal sequoia]

Much appreciated

[signal talon]

where can I pick up a sword in game?

[bold rapids]

stun gun is for betas

[vernal sequoia]

Could medium and heavy get smoke grenades? I feel like anyone could find use in it, especially melee users

[warped prawn]

https://youtu.be/XEw7Ab30yH8?si=r2deN1tpZhPjFXSW

[restive blade]

day 10 of asking for a wing suit for light

[burnt vapor]

day 1 of asking for a nuke for heavy that deals 349 damage and affects the whole map

[spring oasis]

exactly

they don't have a clue what they're talking about

[wild isle]

Spear is clearly too strong because I can't kill them 1v1 on light using quick melee

I think the KS-23 should have an even slower projectile and do 75 damage

[signal talon]

wow

[blazing sun]

Conan trying to reach level one. Just hopping from channel to channel and writing positive comments. Keep up the great work man! 🙂

[grave saddle]

facts

you got this

[rancid widget]

real

[bronze spade]

they should revert the heavy changes to its equipment and just nerf thier weapons

[wild isle]

You can experience this now by playing MGL32 and realize that C&S is your new primary weapon

[bronze spade]

c and s?

[bronze spade]

xp is for betas, use 93r or get out

[wild isle]

Charge And Slam

[spring oasis]

Can we get a cluster grenade where the submunitions explode into balls of goo? Think... Goo Popcorn

[lavish heron]

isnt that literally just a buffed goo grenade

[spring oasis]

Depending on how the submunitions land... maybe

[shut bane]

i think its about time taser got shit and spit on, thank god its getting nerfed next patch

[royal pier]

Source?

I'll admit to sometimes overlooking stuff in patch notes.

I also don't believe the patch notes because the lie semi-often.

I can't wrap my head around how I see the 1887 doing well in almost every game, yet Embark says it isn't overpreforming.

Is it simply a case of so many mediocre players are also using it? They were a bit cagey on the higher skill end of the spectrum.

[dusk lynx]

day 112 asking if they can add a minigun to hevey

[shut bane]

Me spreading misinformation on the internet

[potent tinsel]

The new pyro grenade skin completes me.

https://tenor.com/view/sun-taste-gif-8691244

[blissful iris]

Revolver sucks bad - When buff ?

[unkempt moss]

The revolver is a reflection of its user, so…

[acoustic patrol]

Make the pikes hipfire abysmal, make the revolvers hipfire good or increase hip ROF. I think the main reason people suck with the revolver because the weapon feels so stiff (in my experience) they need to make the weapon feel more fluid. It has double the damage potential of a pike sooooo....

[acoustic patrol]

I don't know, it would be so inaccurate so basically slow SA12?

[shell sonnet]

There are different ways to make a minigun

I could imagine it like drg

Starts off with almost half a screen worth of bloom
Shooting makes it more accurate
And if you shoot too long you overheat

So you can "technically" fire forever by tap firering, but with a heavy rate of fire downside

Would work if it only starts to cool after .25-.5 seconds of not firering

[vale obsidian]

i hate rng hip fire bro
just make it perfectly accurate but slap some hard falloffs for it

[shell sonnet]

Also, skin idea

Some kind of rock framework with glowing runes

Dwarfen magic for a dnd season

[shell sonnet]

I mean, drg's is pve
But heavy also works in tf2 despite being "random"

You just need to code it to fire many, low damage bullets, so the rng doesnt matter as much

To kinda average out

[vale obsidian]

also would this be a spec or a weapon?
cus duel weild minigun mid range and quad shotty close range sound awsome

[shell sonnet]

Weapon

A secondary spec would take away the downside for some weapons and basically give you a second mag, would be kinda broken
Probably

[shell sonnet]

It does
To you.

I dont wanna be in your enemies shoes

And considering you would be having fun
And everyone else would have a problem with it

I dont consider this a positive trade for the game

Kinda like how winch changed the game

[vale obsidian]

yeah i agree, but my idea was that you can't really kill at anything longer then mid range and only doing enough damage to make someone stop looking at you anyways
and the "no bloom only falloffs" part is me just hating on rng and want to reward good tracking at long range

[shell sonnet]

Now that i think about it, that may be a decent fix for the healbeam

It larely prevents the tap healing, and forces them to wait at least a little, while not forcing an overheat

[shell sonnet]

Drg's minigun gets more accurate while shooting

Still rng obviously, but its the same as heavy

Rng with many bullets to average out dps

[vale obsidian]

the more i think about it the more i like the idea

[vale obsidian]

only just search it on google and uhhhhh i've never play deep rock galactic before

[shell sonnet]

Fair enough

Also, what are we thinking about an electric arc gun

Like, hit someone, and enemy nearby gets hit for slightly less damage than the initial hit

[vale obsidian]

my first thought is how people will react to it lol
"NNOOOOO NOOB GUN NERF IT"

🤣

[shell sonnet]

Possibly

Maybe it could be a very fast projectile, like the ks

Might be spammy...

[shell sonnet]

I would put it on light
They already die very quickly, even more so in team fights where it matters more

So kinda risk reward

[vale obsidian]

muti hit being so weak is kindda boring
what if we find a way to balance it by making it really hard to hit?

im thinking that arrow guy form marvel that visel to control it

[shell sonnet]

Hard to hit but high damage is throwing knives

Cant see this going sideways at all || /s ||

[vale obsidian]

how we control it in game is by turning your player and the arrow will turn the same direction

it hard to hit cus slow projectile which been done to death by now it feel like

[shell sonnet]

I was more thinking of piwer flower from gw
Like a rapid fire smg

Lower damage than m11 or xp, but arc damage

Still, another smg may be too close

[vale obsidian]

arc damage?

[shell sonnet]

So maybe a bit slower

Like revolver?

[shell sonnet]

?

[vale obsidian]

what is arc damage

is it like damage with some falloffs?

[shell sonnet]

Oh, as in electric

The first hit is normal damage, it then arcs to another target and deals like 60% of that or something to them too

[vale obsidian]

ah ok

this weapon can definitely work then

will it hit gatgid tho?

[shell sonnet]

Thinking about it, revolver would be considered kinda weak on light

So that but off-set with arc damage might work decently well

[shell sonnet]

Should

But what about mines

Imagine someone stands on his own mine, gets hit once and it just arcs to his mine, one-shotting myself

Thatd be funny

[vale obsidian]

if it hit gatgid it should hit all gatgid to avoid confusion

[vale obsidian]

his flaut for standing on the mine lol

[shell sonnet]

Yeah

Otherwise idk if it would screw up hitreg

Just have it be hitscan, and make the arc go to whatever is closest

[shell sonnet]

My thoughts exactly

Cl-40 is no different

[vale obsidian]

next biggest question is when it hit player then gatgid then player
should it -40% damage every hit or should hitting gatgid not reduse damage?

[shell sonnet]

Also, this entire idea just stems from me trying to think of stuff i could make a magic wand skin for

I dont think magic fits into this game

But having an electric gun with a fitting magic wand skin, fine by me

[shell sonnet]

Damage should always be the same
No matter if gadget or player

[vale obsidian]

sneaky sneaky lol

[shell sonnet]

Ill post it in my season idea fanwork

Whenever thats gonna be ready

Im afraid thats gonna take a while

[vale obsidian]

so like it hit first person it do say 100 damage then every hit after do 60 damage?

[shell sonnet]

I wouldnt make it arc more than 1 time, otherwise it might be spammy

Perhaps there is a case to be made to keep the radius in which it can arc small, and give it 2 arcs

Small radius with mutiple arcs, or high radius with few arcs

The latter might make it feel unavoidable though...

So maybe 2 short arcs would actually be better?

[vale obsidian]

the arg range need to be play tested
cus too little it'll make the user feel cheated that the arg didn't muti hit and too much arg range will like you said, feel unavoidable for the enemy

[shell sonnet]

Im kind of imagining this as an alternative grenade laungher

Requiring more aim than grenades, but having a higher aoe that isnt effected by fall-off from center hit

[shell sonnet]

Obviously
No harm done in throwing that idea out there

[vale obsidian]

this arg lighting gun would be so fun to use in team fight

[shell sonnet]

I wonder if this may effect meta quit a bit

With close range bumming being meta, this could drive teams apart

And who functions best on their own?
Lights
Which also have an advantage to it in 1v1's due to its lower damage

This could actually be meta shaping

Making light good against close range stacks

But also making lights better against this exact counter

2 people bumming, being MH
And a L to keep the arc L off them
Or perhaps do it back to them

It would be the single viable weapon for lights, but hey, at least theyre meta now

Not like theyre already hard focusing on the single most viable gun at all times anyways

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/awkward-im-out-byee-ok-gif-15304701432226785572

[shell sonnet]

:)

[vale obsidian]

@shell sonnet i just want your opinion on this (sorry for the salt in advance btw)
vvvvv vvvvvv
#👂┇game-feedback message

[shell sonnet]

Well...
It is a splash damage
If you reduce splash damage but increase direct hit damage, then it just becomes a worse model

That already rules this out as an option to me

Also, who gets set to 90hp after being shot by cl?

Lights go down to like 30
And mediums either go down to 130 with 1 shot
Or like 20 with 2

(Numbers not accurate, just best guess based on health bar)

The self damage is rather steep
But i think its a necessary evil

I can often avoid it by just bunny hopping diagonally and lobbing a nade on the opposit side of the enemy 🤷

[vale obsidian]

cl40 do 100 max damage combinding with 1.6 self damage it do 160 self damage
it put yourself down to 90 if you ever accidentally shoot the cover you're using

[shell sonnet]

Oh, mb then

Yeah, that happened to me like yesterday on a suspended structure

I think that may just be a case of unintuitive hitreg

Bullets come out of the center of the screen, right?

[vale obsidian]

idk anymore cus the bullet trall of the thing do a loopty loop every time i fire while moving

let me see if i can find a clip

[shell sonnet]

Either way, imo its about good rn
Its useable, pretty fun, but has its downsides

Like it should have

And after the whole rework chaos, im glad we landed wjere we did
Which hopefully (to me at least) mwans it will stay here for a while

[vale obsidian]

yeah i guess 😮‍💨

i just wish the one down side of cl40 isn't self damage

[shell sonnet]

I doubt they will go on that whole roller coaster again any time soon

But what kind of different downside would you give it anyways?
(If your suggestion wasnt an option)

Because the self damage also makes sure you can't just barrel stuff another medium point blank, because you die in 2 shells, while they take 3

[vale obsidian]

damn this got me thinking hard

porb something that punich face hugging close range combat like self damage did
but dosn't complatly kill you if you land a single seld damage shot on yourself

[weak kernel]

i've always thought the fact that the cl40 is an arcing projectile is a pretty inherent downside, even when most people were reckoning that it was OP i've heard it wasn't really a problem in the slightest at high level

but that's the thing with balancing for casual vs comp, there's no universal solution

[vale obsidian]

arcing projectile as a down side imo is like saying low fire rate is a down side cus it dosn't fully referent your accuracy and might hit less then you should
imo anyways

[shell sonnet]

It is
But at the ranges where that takes effect, the projectile speed limits you more

So it doesnt really do much besides make long range spam a bit harder
Which i cant complain about

Also hella satisfying to git gud at sniping suspended containers

[vale obsidian]

dose air shot man xD

[shell sonnet]

No shit, thats fun as heck

[vale obsidian]

fk it
arcing projectile is an upside cus it incease my blood pressure bill

[shell sonnet]

At least to me

[weak kernel]

i will say that just because something isn't considered good at high level doesn't mean it can't be a problem in other ways- throwing knives at their peak strength weren't really overpowered but it was annoying as hell to play shotgun light or sword light against it

[shell sonnet]

Not much of a point in balancing around comp imo
They will use whatever is best anyways, and wont be negatively impacted
Regardless of if we balance around them or casual

But casuals can be negatively impacted by balancing around ranked

[vale obsidian]

we also should keep in mind that there's like 10 time more casual player then people in top 500 leader borad or ruby or what ever

[shell sonnet]

Think of tf2

Medic has über
Über is incredibly strong
They have a melee that gives über charge on hit

A medic running into open combat with a melee out is a death sentence (in comp)
So its balanced
Making other options viable

Meanwhile in casual people often dont hit shit, or run in like stupid, so its free über, leaving the other options in the dust

[weak kernel]

I mean, comp players generally have a better (although not infallible) idea about what's actually strong- if you give a playerbase enough time through both playerbase bleed and skill inflation, what's strong in comp has a habit of making its way to casual games. Like Titanfall 2, you'd hear "ah the EPG is bullshit" or "ah the spitfire is bullshit" and nowadays it's "oh holy shit the c.a.r (comp weapon of choice) is bullshit"

[shell sonnet]

Casuals just dont get variety (or are at a big disadvantage should they decide to do anyways)
And for comp players it doesnt matter anyways

[shell sonnet]

They might have a generally better idea of what the maximum potential of a weapon is

But this conveniently ignores other aspects such as easy of use or useage outside of comp

[vale obsidian]

wait dose tf2 way of balancing acually the best way of balancing? the stock and side grade thing

[shell sonnet]

Stun gun is a free kill on melee and that is bad

But this doesnt matter in comp because light isnt run anways

Obviously its not a problem to them

[shell sonnet]

No, absoluetly not
Just look at medic

2 slots are must use items with 0 viable alternatives in casual, because theyre balanced around comp

Trickle down balance does not work

[bold rapids]

93r is based, xp is just weak m11 and m11 is the most broken gun in the game with the red dot

[shell sonnet]

(Or at least i havent seen it done right)

[bold rapids]

And medium shotgun is beta too 😜

[vale obsidian]

nah what? the m11 red dot?

[weak kernel]

I personally find stuff like nerfing pyro in team fortress and the CL-40 here because they're easy to use in low-skill lobbies kind of annoying, so that helps to inform my biases a bit. It makes those items increasingly difficult to get mileage out of the better the skill of the lobby gets, while the more straightforward stuff that's more about aim than positioning gets glanced over no matter how good it actually is.

[shell sonnet]

Or for example
In ranked medium is meta anyways

So after the cl buff, swapping a slot to aps was an easy choice

And what about casual?
Where plenty of people want to play light and heavy?
Aps is just not an option to them if they want to have fun

Ranked doesnt care, casual does

[weak kernel]

i mean my opinion on the cl40 isn't "medium can deal with it just run APS" it's "this gun has a hard range limitation, is a projectile, and has extremely high TTK so outposition or outshoot them" and the problem was that at low levels people can't shoot and can't position so they run into it, miss, and die to the gun with a higher skill floor

[bold rapids]

You can add scope to it and its way better

[vale obsidian]

nah man i use it once and the shake on that dot bro

[bold rapids]

But with iron sight you only see half of thr screen xd

[vale obsidian]

i have to practically guess where my bullets going

[shell sonnet]

Cl?
High skill floor?

[vale obsidian]

better then not having a crosshair

[weak kernel]

if i'm using the term right yeah the CL was pretty easy to use at point blank during 4.0

[shell sonnet]

But i mean
My poimt still stands

At high elo, not an issue
They dont care

In casual, a problem, they do care

Nerfing it back down didnt impact ranked players
But it did make the game more enjoyable to casuals

Thats how it should be

[shell sonnet]

You mean low skill floor then

[weak kernel]

does that make sense? "high skill ceiling" refers to something being very effective with high skill investment. I'd think high skill floor would mean you get good results for little investment

[shell sonnet]

In highlander, i think the meta is a medic, a demo, 2 soldiers and a scout (not sure)

Would it be nice to have pyro be a viable option?
Yeah, obviously
Do they care?
Not really, they just use whats effective
Nothinf much would change to them

Would a change also turn any server into hell (literally)?
Yes
Not worth it

Keep the fun to those that it matters to, the rest is fine as is and doesnt care

[weak kernel]

and 2bh from my hyper specific position as a light player who leans on grapple I was loving all the CLs because that's a source of damage i can easily nullify which normally isn't the case fighting medium at all. comp players didn't really care because they had more overt problems they were worrying about and a lot of them don't value "low aim" guns in the first place, but I dunno, I wish casual players weren't so quick to reject something if they don't immediately and intuitively understand how to deal with it, it keeps games very boring

[shell sonnet]

A skill ceiling is the very top
Its above players, so ceiling is fitting

The floor is usually below you
A high skill floor is a big step upwards
Its harder to make a big step upwards
Something that is easy to use is easy to reach, on floor level

High ceiling = strong with high skill
Low floor = decent with little investment

Not sure if i could explain that well

[weak kernel]

apparently it's used in both senses and there's confusion because LoL has popularized your definition

[shell sonnet]

Ive literally never heard "high skill floor" being used ok something thats easy

Where did you have that from?

Id be interested in knowing/learning about the origin

[weak kernel]

floor is base effectiveness, ceiling is max effectiveness. a high skill floor means a bad player can do well, a high skill ceiling means a high skill player will do extremely well.

this is the version I've pretty much always heard and intuitive makes sense to me, and looking up "skill ceiling meaning" I get both definitions and people arguing over it

[shell sonnet]

Low skill floor would mean a bad player can do well

High skill floor would mean a bad player cant do well

I really want to know where thats used the other way around

[weak kernel]

like i said you can look it up and find people arguing the definition

[shell sonnet]

For me its like this

Sniper
High skill floor, high skill ceiling
A bad player cant do much (besides bodyshot) because its hard to pick up
But a good player is a nightmare

Soldier has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling
Shooting your feet works decently well for bad players
But someone who knows rocket jumping, rollouts, airshots and bombing will always be better

And pyro is low skill floor low skill ceiling
Easy to use for bad players with 1+m1
But besides airblast and flarejump tech, high skill players cant express themselves much

[vale obsidian]

so combo pyro are actually only just as good as W+m1?

[shell sonnet]

I agree on your definition of skill ceiling

Im just a bit confused about skill floor

Because taking a step up
Onto somewhere high
Doesnt sound intuitive for somethinf tahts supposed to be easy

[shell sonnet]

No, obviously theyre better
A good pyro will be better than a bad one (duh)

But there is a lower cap to how good they can become compared to sniper or soldier

[weak kernel]

I don't really like the idea of "the minimum skill you have to be before you can contribute" because that's extremely dependent on your opponent, while general ease of control is something that feels easier to grasp

[shell sonnet]

A bad player will (almost always) loose to a good player

But i dont think its helpful comparing it that way

I think its better to compare it with averages
A bad pyro can contribute to an average team more, than a bad sniper would
/has an easier time doing so

[shell sonnet]

I mean, even in that sense

Its easier to walk on even ground than climb stairs

Hence low skill floor being easy and high skill floor being harder

Google also seems to back me up on this too, i have never seen anyone argue high skill floor meaning easy

[weak kernel]

i'm not really thinking about it being a physical metaphor, for me when I think about it the "high" part of things is just talking about effectiveness or like, a graph. a low skill ceiling indicates that you're less likely to get mileage out of it for skill investment, a high skill ceiling indicates you're getting high mileage, so a high skill floor indicates that you're getting more mileage out of less investment

if you look at the results and not just the AI overview and first result it feeds you you should be able to find people discusing it pretty quick

overwatch subreddit, gamefaqs, etc

it also makes more sense to me when you compare it to the other ways people use floors and ceilings to describe something, like "floor" generally just means "the baseline," it's not a physical metaphor

but different definitions emerged in different places so w/e it's pointless to discuss

[shell sonnet]

I dont use ai
Also, in case youre interested, heres the first thing that showed up for me

Low skill floor = easy
Not high floor

[weak kernel]

this was my first result

[shell sonnet]

I mean, yeah kinda

But im really just curious where thats used the other way around

[weak kernel]

i get the impression that it's like this guy is saying and that it was generally this way before LoL, because like I said, I think my definition fits more in line with the way something's "floor" and "ceiling" are usually used in language

[shell sonnet]

I may be starting to understand, give me a minute please

[shell sonnet]

We do agree on the high skill ceiling though, right?

Hard to use, but very effective once you can manage

[weak kernel]

of course, high skill ceiling means "effective once the effort is put in" any way you slice it

[shell sonnet]

But then low skill floor, as in
"Difficult to contribute with until you are an advanced player"
Goes the opposite ways

Both up, towards the ceiling
And
Down, towards the floor

Would mean getting harder

It would be much more intuitive if going up always means the same thing

A high [xyz] is harder to achieve but more rewarding

Be it a floor, or ceiling

If you want to we can obviously stop this isnt really going anywhere and i dont want to waste your time

I just find this interesting and am trying to understand the mindset

[shell sonnet]

Or is it..

A low floor hero is easy to use, but is overall kind of bad
So they suffer unless youre godlike

And a high floor hero will just get you killed as noob
But those that do play them are generally good enough to contribute adequetly?

[weak kernel]

imagine the whole metaphor as just a graph measuring overall effectiveness, right

in that sort of context I think a high skill floor makes more sense, because you're saying the player's effectiveness at minimum is higher than their effectiveness would be on a harder to use character. I get the other interpretation but I think it's just a different way of visualizing it

I've probably heard it used both ways without really thinking about it

And yeah this is getting silly and circular so I'll drop it here

[shell sonnet]

Still, thanks for sticking around a bit
Always nice to get some other viewpoints from other people 👍

[crisp heart]

• Weapon got nerfed to the point it feels awkward and clunky
• still keeps using it trying to make it work
• got somewhat good at it.
• people wants another nerf.

Man, if this happens it's the player that embark needs to nerf not the weapon.

[fleet brook]

Skill floor just means the bare minimum needed to unlock the potential of a game or activity and use it

Skill ceiling represents the maximum amount of user expression that can be put into something for its reward

[boreal laurel]

I get the feeling that people are only asking for nerfs to things that work well.

Sword: kills you, so nerf it
RPG: gives heavy some ranged potential, so nerf it
Charge and Slam: a spec that deals damage, so nerf it
Motion Sensor: detects you, so nerf it
Dual Blades: can kill you from range, so nerf it
(And yes, those last two are real takes that I’ve actually heard people say)

Not to say that some things can’t be overtuned (ahem M11, Pike pre-nerf), but come on

[fleet brook]

In a game where most things don't do there job well because when they did they were nerfed into the ground anything that does is op

Kinda like the quote in the world of blind people the one eyed man is king

[fleet brook]

You can hit a bad pyro with a rocket

[azure prawn]

how is the m11 compared to the xp-54?

[royal raptor]

whats the best light gadet set up?

[restive plover]

Better since the xp got shafted. Still not as good as the lh1.

[azure prawn]

ur opinion on dagger?

[restive plover]

Terrible.

Funny, but not good at all.

[azure prawn]

Aight, sad

Ur opinion on best light gadgets? Especially with m11

[shut bane]

Compared to sword dagger is dookie water, they should at least let players choose between the hold or toggle mechanic tbh

[restive plover]

Light's best gadgets are gateways, stun gun, and glitch grenades. Frags are also a great option regardless.

[azure prawn]

How to use the gateways?

[restive plover]

What do you mean?

[azure prawn]

like whats the best way of using them

i dont know what to do with them, ive havent used it at all so far

[restive plover]

Cash out defence probably. But you shouldn't use them for the exclusively, they are extremely versatile.

General movement, setting up gateways before a fight to have an easy escape route, things like that. Just play with them and it'll come to you over time.

If you happen to be in a stack you can combine them with other gadgets too, like jump pad.

[azure prawn]

right now im using tan bomb, sonar nade and stun gun
so ur saying is should use the gateway for sure?

[restive plover]

Tan bomb?

[azure prawn]

invis thing

[restive plover]

Oh. If you're dead set on using dash, keep vanish bomb. Otherwise, use cloaking device and switch it out.

[azure prawn]

i use dash and vanish bomb

[restive plover]

Cloaking device is light's best specialization by far, as long as you know about cloak mantling and staying still with it active.

[azure prawn]

people said dash is way more often used in higher elo
and better to learn it

[restive plover]

Those people were liars or just wrong.

Dash gets significantly worse the better your opponents get, since good tracking shuts it down completely.

[azure prawn]

@restive plover so when i use cloak, which gadedgts should i u se with m11?

i def need to keep the stun gun

[restive plover]

Yes stun is good. You don't need vanish bomb if you have cloak.

[azure prawn]

so stun, gateway and which else?

sonar?

[restive plover]

You could swap out sonar for glitch grenades.

[azure prawn]

ill try it out, thanks!

[restive plover]

If you happen to be dealing with other cloak lights, thermal vision is better anyways.

[azure prawn]

very good to know! u have other advice?

[drowsy osprey]

Tbf no one gets fooled by cloak anymore

[restive plover]

Moving at all while cloaked makes you just as visible and noisy no matter how slow or small the movement is.

Except for mantling, which is silent and keeps you just as visible as standing still.

[restive plover]

Partial invisibility is inherently unreliable. All of light's specializations are bad, but cloak is still the best.

[drowsy osprey]

i dont disagree that theyre all bad but i feel like the best is personal preference as well as the weapons youre using

[viral forum]

nah dash is goated if ur a movement player, cloak sucks

[weak kernel]

i think the issue is that like in every movement game, you can't just outmove aimbot-like hitscan tracking

[viral forum]

unless you are playing absolute no lifes most players cannot track you well enough if you dance around them with dash, theyll run out of mouse pad first

[weak kernel]

honestly the only thing I really want for light is demat or breach tools that rival it because it is unbelievably dumb that medium has the best interior movement in a game where having good interior movement is really important

[viral forum]

Nah fam I always murk cloak players unless they corner camp for one kill and die right after anyways, once you play enough its the easiest thing to play around and counter

ive been rockin bow and dash and have even stomped on golds in ranked with it

[drowsy osprey]

bow dash is super fun

[viral forum]

yeah hitting fat dinks with it is fun, its just a practice weapon to get used to travel time and drop, close range its pretty nonexistent tho

and the no dmg drop off means thats random shot you rip across the map can still totally murk someone and thats big funny

the shot timings for 2 shot combos can be a little tricky on mediums tho, if you hit a full charge hs first, you dont need to fully charge a second bodyshot to kill em, slightly off and youll be facepalming over 248 in 2 after you die lol

[drowsy osprey]

could always go for a melee

[viral forum]

true but max hs is 180 so youll need 2 quick melees, which against a half decent model player is pretty risky

[drowsy osprey]

yeah i wouldnt try that against someone whos good with the model

[viral forum]

usually its safer to go for the ranging and maybe even a couple quick no charge shots

one really annoying thing I noticed is the hitboxes on some railings dont let arrows go through and theyll get stuck in air lol

oh and some weapons like dual deags on heavy can block headshots with their hand placement

especially when they have height advantage

[fleet brook]

The correct option is grapple if you're a movement junkie

Your weak horizontal movement vs my Chad vertical movement

[viral forum]

If grapple had 2 charges id consider it

[fleet brook]

By the time I need my second grapple its always back up

[viral forum]

I was a kraber grapple chad in titanfall 2 but finals grapple got me wanting some more

also the more granular movement of dash lets you do some tricky stuff around debris, which I tend to prefer in this game

[shell sonnet]

Gadget idea: energy barricade

Its see-through
It can be placed sideways on walls/the ceiling
It ignores building collision (so it can clip into walls)
It doesnt block falling buildings (but still blocks all player attacks and can not be walked through, by both the enemy and users team)

Faster recharge than a barricade
You only get 1
Self destructs after some time

Otherwise identical to barricade

Thoughts?

[viral forum]

halo energy barrier real

[drowsy osprey]

Dude same, I wish the grapple worked more like TTF2. It's still my favorite specialization but it just doesn't hit like titanfall 😭

[shell sonnet]

I didnt play halo
But if thats similar, maybe thats a good idea then?

[viral forum]

yeah it might make shield spam way more prevalent though if one heavy can stack that, dome, and mesh in like 2 seconds lol

[shell sonnet]

Im a bit bummed by being unable to place barricades on monacos staircases

So my thought was a slightly weaker barricade, that instead offers a bunch of quality of life

Like being see through but still protecting you
Not being reliant on weird hitreg/screwed over by weird geometry

And rewarding creative useage like wall scaling or defending youself from high ground

[shell sonnet]

Cant be shot through, just like barricade
It would add nothing they cant already do

Just quality of life and a bit of creative usage
In return for raw tanking

[viral forum]

I mean yeah its not a bad idea at all

[shell sonnet]

At least to that issue specifically

[prime coral]

Is it just me or does the Revolver feel… lacking?

[viral forum]

it basically sounds like a mini mesh shield thats a gadet, I mean you could probs make it one way to keep shield consistency

[shell sonnet]

It does at times, but its far from unuseable

Still pretty fun

[shell sonnet]

No, that would be an issue

Just a barricade, damage blocking for all

[viral forum]

pre 2nd pike nerf it was utterly useless, now its only a fat meh weapon again

[shell sonnet]

What if the revolver had perfect hipfire

[drowsy osprey]

the inital damage nerf was needed but the most recent was was insane

[shell sonnet]

Would probably get complaints about "removing mediums close range weakness"

[drowsy osprey]

idk about perfect but a buff would be nice considering how good hipfire is on most guns

[viral forum]

unironically it should, they nerfed the range hard on it and tried to make it 'closer range' but the hipfire is awful so it doesnt work

[shell sonnet]

...
Are we playing the same game?

Imo most weapons hipfire is pretty bad unless you crouch and stand still

Or we have a different idea of what counts as bad

[viral forum]

the red dot addition helped somewhat but trying to ads in a close range fight feels like ass

[drowsy osprey]

i mean almost all of lights weapons have near perfect hipfire

famas shreds in close range too

[shell sonnet]

Although

It adds nothing it cant already do in close range
Only majes it a little easier, slightly more consistent and allows for bunny hopping

[viral forum]

also I dont think they can keep it over 50 damage because it becomes a light body 3 shot, same as revolver, and thats whack

[shell sonnet]

Since they are always so dead set on players hitting their shots, this should change nothing to them

Id have rather have a rate of fire adjustment to pike

[drowsy osprey]

eh on a single shot weapon though? if they went with a fire rate nerf instead of a damage nerf i think it would have been fine

[viral forum]

I mean they both are single shot weps, but pike has faster rof and double the ammo

I think a rof nerf woulda felt like ass look at V9S

Nobody liked their rof nerf

[drowsy osprey]

i think that gun is still alright though, the pike is absolutely dead

[azure prawn]

opinmion on the light shotgun?

[drowsy osprey]

the new one or the old one?

[viral forum]

nah I still use it since I like dmrs i general, its just a bit more reliant on hitting headshots now which makes sense

[drowsy osprey]

3 hs for a light is crazy work though

[viral forum]

yeah thats a lil scuffed but you can 1 hs and 2 bodies

[azure prawn]

the double barrel sh smth

[viral forum]

double barrel is pretty good again

for a long time it was useless because cloak db was basically meta light back in S1 and they nerfed the hell outta it, but they brought it back after a while

[drowsy osprey]

db is very good if you can land shots

[azure prawn]

kk thanks!
what about db comapred to m11?

[drowsy osprey]

m11 is probably better but i like both

[viral forum]

db is basically like the craziest burst damage beyond dagger backstabs, m11 is more forgiving

whiff your db shots and ur probs dead, but hit them and you can schwack teams if ur slick with it

[weak kernel]

db is like using a sniper in that you play perfectly or you self immolate

[viral forum]

^

[weak kernel]

very rewarding though

[viral forum]

I do really wanna see iron sight option on sniper

it would be very interesting

[drowsy osprey]

im not sure if they would do that, im fairly sure the scope is intended to keep it in line for close range fights

[viral forum]

I mean rof wise im pretty sure a model can still 2 shot you before you can even try a 2nd shot, it would be pretty comparable to bow ttk I think

I wish theyd have a public test server to try some ideas out before pushing to main game lol

[drowsy osprey]

except you can still play it at a further range than both of those weapons. a sniper is supposed to be weak in close range

[viral forum]

I mean a bow should technically be weak close range too but they made it work lol, also ur kinda trading your long range precision for some close range versatility

actually after the bullet drop nerf you pretty much couldnt use it at range well at all, since aiming above the target with irons means you cant see them anymore lol

[gaunt fern]

@ everyone

What is the best light build?

@viral forum what is the best light build

[random anvil]

lmg dome shield

[viral forum]

thats really just depends on how you wanna play lol

like if you want the basic no brain meta build just stick with M11 and whatever specialisation you want

if you wanna be a headshot demon try bow or sniper or lh1

[gaunt fern]

Ok thx

[viral forum]

if you want the hit and run burst damage build do shotgun or dagger or sword

with cloak or dash

just try unlocking weapons you think look cool and see if you like how they play

[gaunt fern]

Oh ok thx

[random anvil]

sword is really op

[viral forum]

only if you get up close, which is kinda the point

[prime coral]

I wonder how viable this idea would be, but what about a Hallucination Dart?

The general idea would be that the effect would make it look like there’s Fire or Toxin or Goo where it isn’t. Kind of a Soft-CC. Maybe even cause fake enemies to spawn that shoot fake zero damage bullets?

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, but there can be things that make getting close too easy

As winch was (and still kind of is)

Im fine with it in theory
Im just annoyed at the amount of lights i see dash right past me, and i still take 140 damage

[viral forum]

yeah but thats just cause hitboxes are kinda scuffed with dash plus lunge and you can swing your mouse around to hit people you probably shouldnt have, at least not for full damage if they wanted to somehow fix it

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, thats exactly it
They can dash past me, shake their mouse, and still hit me

If the hitbox was a straight line alongside the dash, perfectly fine

[viral forum]

I would probably give them like 15 to 20 degrees of turning either side before it either cancels lunge or starts doing reduced damage, the 90 degree stabs make no sense

[shell sonnet]

Reduce, but by how much?
When is it allowed to screw them out of a kill?

Will it be readable?
Or will it be hard to tell like dagger

Its a bit eh

But i stick to my idea on it

Rather have it suck a little for the user (that can swap at all times), and everyone else has a better time
Than giving 1 guy free hits and everyone else feels cheated (and has to jzst deal with it)

Rather have sword suck a little, than getting ghost hit every match

Just like with sledge

[viral forum]

I mean with proper animation and sound work they could make the feedback work

[shell sonnet]

Obviously
And that would be idea

But is that gonna happen?

[viral forum]

I mean they did reduce the hitboxes recently too with both to make them a bit less broken

[shell sonnet]

I did see sledge, i dont recall sword

[viral forum]

since they were able to straight up hit you without even being visually close lol

[shell sonnet]

I think they reduced the range though

Not fix the hitboxes

Or was it that its 5cm smaller sideways?
Because that does literally nothing if you shake your mouse

[shell sonnet]

Still do

Or maybe my memory is just a bit spongey

[viral forum]

they reduced the range by 55cm

[shell sonnet]

Range, but not the actual hitbox
Right?

[viral forum]

it should make sweeping your mouse around a bit less effective

I mean that does mean they reduced the hitbox size lol

or whatever raycast they use for hit detection

[shell sonnet]

That changes nothing about the mouse sweeping though

It just changes the range you cover while doing it

You can still dash past someone and just look their way for a moment
You just go less far during it

[viral forum]

well yeah but unless they rework the weapon entirely theres not much else they can do about it

[shell sonnet]

Just dont let them dash during the charge up animation
/
Interrupt the charge if you activate dash

[viral forum]

then it would be inconsistent with the other light options like bow and dagger and feel terrible

or tks

like that would make it just about entirely useless

[shell sonnet]

I mean
Ive mentioned my standpoint on this

Rather have it suck a little for 1 gzy, than everyone else

[shell sonnet]

Maybe there is potential to change it in other ways to make up for it

It would make it better without dash
And less good with it

[vale obsidian]

dude i have such a funny idea lmao
a fist net thing that you can swipe on enemy and it'll steal a gatgid form the enemy
its so useless but so funny lol

[viral forum]

its not that huge of an issue for me though, as a bow I can usually kite them with my own dash and one or two tap them lol

[shell sonnet]

Dash vs dash, obviously the playingfield is level

[viral forum]

well yeah but as a medium you can hop on a jump pad in the open or lay a mine for them indoors, they have counters, and charge and slam/claw on H can def fuck them up good

[shell sonnet]

Dont give them ideas, they will add anither stun mechanic

[viral forum]

I hate stun gun, I refuse to use it even when I play L lol

Needs to be removed from the game imo

[shell sonnet]

I dont like lock and key design

I want to run interesting combos and items i find fun
Not be forced into a few items just to counter 1 guy

If i did that to everyone that told me to, id never actually play something i want

I saw your line of thinking a million times
Respectfully, no

If you really want me to i can explain in a bit more detail some other time, but rn im not up for it

In short, it makes the game less fun, stale and promotes an unfun hard counter meta where everyone is more busy screwing the other guy over, than actually having fun

[viral forum]

Sword isnt meta at all tho

[shell sonnet]

Removed, eh

Stun mechanics are questionable and melee being a free kill sucks
But it has potential to be balanced

[viral forum]

its such a lameass cheesy crutch gadget that basically means "I cant hit my shots or get a kill unless the enemy stops moving"

[shell sonnet]

Are you coming from a casual or ranked standpoint?

[viral forum]

I dont play ranked much so mostly casual

[shell sonnet]

And then they will argue "BUT BUT i need to stun you first, im at a disadvantage"

[viral forum]

like they arent that common, if anything you see the sweatlord triple medium model setuo more in casual than a sword cheeser

[viral forum]

yeah and completely interrupting the smooth af gameplay with that shitbox gadget also puts us at a disadvantage lol

[shell sonnet]

True, but just because thats bad doesnt mean the other isnt an issue

Making the player choose between
"Be annoyed/frustrated by this user"
And
"Use items you dont like and gatekeep your fun"

Is not good

Forgot to add reply
Whoops

[vale obsidian]

(cough cough) overwatch

[shell sonnet]

Same with with extreme roles imo

[vale obsidian]

model go Brrrrrrrrrrrrr

[viral forum]

I mean while hard counters exist I dont think comoaring this to OW is fair, if you can hit shots or play it slick you can basically counter anything in the game with anything else

[shell sonnet]

I dont play overwatch so i cant give good examples

But i like games that stretch what a class can be

Like tf2
Engineer is defence heavy, throw the gunslinger on and you got a frontline fighter

I dont want to only tank on heavy
I dont want to healbot as medium

I like to expand my horizon

[shell sonnet]

I still love that clip

[viral forum]

I mean every weapon in this game gives you a new playstyle

[vale obsidian]

in short skill hard counter everything

[shell sonnet]

But we arent aimbots
And casual play is messy

And while its only gadgets, it still applies

"Dont want to be hard countered by [insert hero]?
Tough luck, now swap"
"Dont want to be countered by sword?
Tough luck, use mines/goo"

Counter for the latter is applied a bit losely, but i think you understand

[viral forum]

I mean theres lot of gadgets that can counter a sword player when used correctly you have lots of flexibility

no aim required

its more of just learning tricks with each one

[shell sonnet]

You can choose what to counter with
But you still need to bring a counter

A dead slot used on the possibility of a guy using a weapon i dont like

How much is ok?
Where is the gray line too dark?

We shouldnt need to ask this

[viral forum]

not all its varied enough where u less you specifically pick the worst loadouts possible you are gonna have at least one gadget that can counter them

[shell sonnet]

That may sound a bit more hostile than intended
Hope you dont take this too seriously

[viral forum]

like for example frag grenades, if you are getting chased by sword spammer drop one at you feet and theres a good chance you nearly one shot them

like yeah its kinda counter intuitive but the self damage in this game is usually pretty forgiving