💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sand monolith]

finals players discover team based fps is meant to have long ttk

[normal ice]

What weapons suck and why? (bet you won't say CL-40

[cunning wyvern]

I don't want to rely on my team all the time. I solo que and it's not fucking fun to deal with zero chance of winning without teamplay

[sand monolith]

then play casual modes

[cunning wyvern]

CL40 mid, spear garbage, heavy gl can't shoot upwards of 45 degree angle, burst pistol mid, dual blades mid, ks23 horrible bloom

[cunning wyvern]

And here is the issue. A finals player alienating a solo player cause "durr play a different game mode" MY BROTHER IN CHRIST I AM DIAMOND

[sand monolith]

okay?

[restive plover]

Good for you.

[sand monolith]

me when i solo queue a team based game and complain its team based

[normal ice]

For the most part, I agree! But that isn't really half the roster. And nerfing Model would not make those weapons better or worse

[cunning wyvern]

I DIDNT SAY NERF THE MODEL I LITERALLY SAID DONT NERF IT

[sand monolith]

its already confirmed getting a nerf

[restive plover]

It would make spear, mgl and ks23 indirectly better since medium would no longer delete heavies.

[normal ice]

...exactly. I'm arguing against you. I'm saying we should nerf it lol

[swift sundial]

Chicken sandwich

[restive plover]

🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️

[cunning wyvern]

You argued your own point in your last post

[sand monolith]

wait you think the close ranged specialist heavy using an extremely committal melee weapon shouldnt be dying to the mid ranged support's shotgun in cqc? wtf?????????

[normal ice]

I suppose so, yes. And CL-40 would kind of compete better for high-mobility ranged Medium options. But yeah, one weapon nerf isn't screwing over the whole game lol

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-nawh-no-way-fr-gif-22615915

[cunning wyvern]

It's a spear it's almost like you should be able to throw it

[normal ice]

No, your argument is that half the weps are bad because of Embark's nerfs. I asked you to list bad weapons, and I explained that nerfing one overperforming option, Model, would not further nerf those bad weapons

[cunning wyvern]

No my point is not that, my point is they DO FUCKING NOTHING with half the roster while 5 weapons rotate the ranked meta

[exotic skiff]

All weapons wont be balanced it doesnt exist in a FPS game

[normal ice]

Okay, fair enough. But they are slowly tweaking some of the worse options. Just in S4 we got spear and sword buffs. And Throwing Knives buff. And Dagger changes. And CL-40 buffs before they killed it again lol.

[exotic skiff]

Some Always gonna be better than other

[cunning wyvern]

the disparity gap is WIDE

[normal ice]

They're not very good at balancing, but they do look at underperforming options and tweak them

[exotic skiff]

And some weapons will Always be bad

[sand monolith]

buffs > nerfs would ruin this game

[cunning wyvern]

the spear was tweaked and went literally no where, it is still statistically the least used weapon

[normal ice]

Pretty sure the burst pistol is the least used lol

[sand monolith]

med weapons should be about as good as the AKM/famas

heavy weapons about as good as the m60

light weapons about as good as the m11

[cunning wyvern]

they havent even tryed the buff>nerf model and people are saying its bad

[normal ice]

I have literally seen 3 people use the 93r since it was added, and I'm like 99% sure one of them was cheating

[exotic skiff]

Melee weapons would Always be bad and not meta

[cunning wyvern]

they shouldnt be

take them out of the game at that point

[exotic skiff]

Just bring back AR meta that all

That was the most fun thing

[cunning wyvern]

everything meta

[normal ice]

It pains me to say, but you have to accept that melee options have a low skill floor and low skill ceiling alike. They simply cannot out-DPS the guns, and they never should, lest we make the guns completely irrelevant at all skill levels.

[exotic skiff]

Will never happen

[normal ice]

Melee weapons are still good in low skill lobbies, but there's no way to make them match guns at high skill lobbies

[cunning wyvern]

what are you talking about? hammer is one of the highest dps weapons in the game

[exotic skiff]

Hammer IS not good against good player team

[cunning wyvern]

melee has one of the highest skill ceilings? more work than using a gun? you act like the weapons in this game have ammo?

[normal ice]

I mean, technically, yes. That's an exception. But it's not going to out-DPS by the time you get into melee range

[cunning wyvern]

Once again diamond ranked, i nearly exclusively use sledghammer and winch hook?

[exotic skiff]

Full diamond lobby doesnt exist

[sand monolith]

^

[cunning wyvern]

Use cover, goo nades, barricades. they give you options for closing the distance

[normal ice]

Melee requires some unique strategical skill, but the mechanical skill is lower. Period. You have giant hit boxes that can't headshot.

[exotic skiff]

And you Can use any weapons and still win

[cunning wyvern]

so the ks23 is an easy weapon?

[exotic skiff]

Not the hardest by far

[cunning wyvern]

Mechanical skill? have you SEEN the movement tech you need in high ranked lobbies?

[exotic skiff]

Define high ranked lobby, because like I said they doesnt exist

[normal ice]

All the same movement tech you can do with other weapons? Besides breaking walls with one swing?

[cunning wyvern]

they do in ranked, world tour is not ranked it has no filter

[exotic skiff]

Ranked matchmaking is a joke, their is not a singular high ranked lobby rn

[cunning wyvern]

Movement tech matters more when you need to close the distance, and slide swin ng turning is exclusive to melee

[normal ice]

Can you define what "slide swing turning" is? You can shoot while sliding with other weps

[exotic skiff]

Wow slide and pressing left click so much skill

[cunning wyvern]

you are literally biased you want an AR meta

CONTROLLER

[exotic skiff]

I am not, they just doesnt exist even with a lot of RS the lobby is full of plat gold and even silver sometimes

I play only mnk

I dont use a cave man input

[cunning wyvern]

Slide swing turning is when you swing sledge after a jump then slide if you yank screen left or right it launches you further forward

[normal ice]

Anyway, to be clear, if there are niches that every weapon can fulfill that make them have unique applications at any skill level, that's a good thing. Hammer can break walls reliably and that makes it relevant in high ELOs. But Spear e.g. simply can't be good because it shares too much overlap between it and Flamethrower without having any unique benefit. They'd have to rework it or live with the fact it isn't meta

[exotic skiff]

So much skill bro teach me

[cunning wyvern]

no you biased boober

[normal ice]

That sounds a little like a bug, but hey, it's tech. But it's easier than landing 100% headshots with an AR, sorry. That's what the difference in skill ceiling is

[cunning wyvern]

WOW a rework sounds awesome

ar's are not and have never been difficult

[exotic skiff]

Ok buddy full tracking moving people is easier than pressing two button

[normal ice]

It's pretty difficult to hit 100% headshots lol... It's like, humanly impossible

[exotic skiff]

Stop the rage bait

[cunning wyvern]

not really if your chillin on a roof, which its almost like medium has nearly exclusive vertical advantage

its almost like you dont need 100% headshots to kill?

[normal ice]

It's easy to make use of your range advantage, yes. But my argument is that headshotting with an AR has a higher skill CEILING than hammer has

[exotic skiff]

Ar overall have just a way higher skill ceiling

[normal ice]

We're talking about the max utility you can ever get out of weapon in high-skill lobbies. We're talking about the meta

[exotic skiff]

Melee are made for legit AI

[cunning wyvern]

nah, there is a reason you see less melee users, its almost like its harder

Yah tha meta is AWFULL rn

[exotic skiff]

Or just because that Bad ??

[normal ice]

It's harder to win with melee in high ELOs because you already have reached their skill ceiling and can't get any more out of the melee weapons. Meanwhile, your opponents are landing headshots more and more accurately.

[cunning wyvern]

More difficult?

[cunning wyvern]

thats called a player has hit THEIR ceiling. not the weapons

[fleet brook]

The KS 23 needs Christ

[cunning wyvern]

agreed

[fleet brook]

Nerfing a med weapon wouldn't make it better or would just make it less obvious that it sucks

[normal ice]

Every weapon in the game has a different skill floor and ceiling. Period. Some weapons are more or less rewarding or useful at different skill levels. Balancing should strive to make weapons roughly equally rewarding when all used at the same skill level, wherever those weapons have still not been mastered. When a player's skill is too high, some options become obsolete. That's just what you have to accept.

[cunning wyvern]

yep

[fleet brook]

Like painting over faulty drywall

[normal ice]

If every player was running around with aimbot, NOBODY would use melee or many of the hitscan options for that matter

[cunning wyvern]

NO, other weapons can be better. not everything has to be brutal to use it kills the fun

[fleet brook]

Tbf some weapons just weren't viable in ranked depending on patch

[fickle charm]

Spear needs a secondary throw attack so it's not just a worse hammer

[cunning wyvern]

been saying that shit from release

[normal ice]

If you are fighting at the level of the very best of the best in the world, there is simply no way to make every option relevant. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

[cunning wyvern]

high skill weapon doesnt equal high skill player, it simply alienates the ranked and casual lobbies

my guy half the playerbase doesnt want to be ruby, weapons should be well and viable into diamond

[normal ice]

Yes, if you want to balance weapons around lower skill levels, that's perfectly understandable. I agree. I'm just saying you can't expect the meta to include melee

[cunning wyvern]

this is an opinion, its almost like ELO games are picked because of their BALANCE

[cunning wyvern]

it can, you just dont want it to, this is whats know as an opinion

[fleet brook]

cough cough heavy melee pre winch

[cunning wyvern]

THANKYOU

its almost like some of the top players are melee users and some people dont like that

[normal ice]

Have no idea what you're trying to say here. To reiterate my point... If you are fighting in aimbot levels of skill, some guns are just going to be irrelevant. That is a simple fact. Why use Dagger or Double Barrel when you can blast people away with LH1?

[fleet brook]

Tbf on release dash kinda invalidated sledge then winch was added and got nerfed but I enjoyed it for the objective play not just free kills but because it has free kill potential it's ranged was slashed

I'd prefer if they just made the CD for grabbing people much longer and lowered it for grabbing things

[cunning wyvern]

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE TOP PLAYERS, THEY ARENT JUST GOOD THEY PLAY BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT, thats why you see double barrel backstab sword sledgehammer users in ruby

[cunning wyvern]

you act like these weapons arent used at all, when in reality the players with LESS skill use the easier weapons I.E AR'S

[normal ice]

I feel like we're on two completely different subjects. All I'm trying to get across is that 1. nerfs are necessary and won't screw up options that need buffs, 2. buffs are still coming, and 3. perfect balance is not possible, especially when some skill ceilings on some weapons are met.

[cunning wyvern]

there are no meaningful buffs on the way

[normal ice]

if you want to believe so ig lol

[restive plover]

You have literally no way of knowing this.

[cunning wyvern]

wait and see

ive been here for 4 seasons and the largest buff as easily the cl40, then lowered back down

[restive plover]

93r is meta next patch.

[cunning wyvern]

yeah. right.

and if so, good. the three 93r users will be happy.

[cunning wyvern]

prob m60, rpg is still really solid. charge n slam or winch hook

[restive plover]

Lewis is still better than the m60, and deagles are better than that.

Sa1216 is still strong despite the murder of mesh.

I mean you can't go wrong with charge.

[cunning wyvern]

charge is probably the most consistent, and yeah lewis is prob still better than m60

[hallow leaf]

the light Db needs removed fuck that weapon

[restive plover]

I completely agree. But they had to justify preserving stupid pick abilities and the mid range game somehow.

[cunning wyvern]

mesh health made sense, the cooldowns are WAY out of left feild. fucked up a whole play style plus you see way less glitch nades in game modes other than powershift

[shut bane]

Dome nerf was absolutely necessary, the first time

Is it 12 seconds? Sure doesn’t feel like it

[restive plover]

It was, now it's 5.

[shut bane]

Oh shit lol

[restive plover]

The first nerf was health I think. I don't remember, it was a while ago.

[shut bane]

Yeah 5 seconds is barely enough time to use it for its intended purposes, Not like it stops it from being an engagement advantage anyway

[cunning wyvern]

yeah it was health

[glossy birch]

sa12 winch is the meta

[cunning wyvern]

really buggy sometimes, but when it works man it works

[glossy birch]

true

IMO sa12 winch works best when you have a coordinated team, when ur solo just run deagles/lmgs

[cunning wyvern]

👆

[shut bane]

Deagles were embarks best creation imo

[cunning wyvern]

meh, i hope we see some more creative weapons in the future. ancient times with knight weapons. a season where there is magick. its a vr world so i hope we see less traditional weapon types

[shut bane]

I doubt we’ll be seeing magic other than lights playing cards lol, though I can totally imagine sci fi inspired weapons

I still yearn for a colossal sword skin and animations for sledge, and a very specific one at that

[cunning wyvern]

Lighting hands, fireballs, poison breath. It's all possible. The skins they make are so creative I don't know why weapons can't be

Also spear should be throwable with a lighting bolt skin

[shut bane]

There’s no reason why they couldn’t turn its m2 attack into a javelin throw

The current weeb-out attack is just silly looking lol

[sand monolith]

model players beware

[shut bane]

It’ll be fine even then

[restive plover]

Any notion as to what they'll actually do?

[sand monolith]

no one knows

we just know they're nerfing it potentially in 4.5 as an exception to their shop update but if not 4.5 then undoubtedly 4.6

[cunning wyvern]

1 thing is garunteed. more nerfs

[shut bane]

I can imagine some kind of bullet spread change when moving

[restive plover]

That would be really weird and not fix anything.

[cunning wyvern]

model is a movement demon, forced slowdown to be accurate would change a lot

[sand monolith]

thank god 🙏

[cunning wyvern]

thank embark, there is no god here

[shut bane]

It’d kill it on the spot if the user needed to be grounded and still to hit shots at range, wouldn’t stop it from being effective at close range though but lights and heavies all have things for that

[sand monolith]

bullet spread while moving likely wont happen just because it would be inconsistent with all the other pellet shotguns. it just needs a damage nerf

[vale obsidian]

uh i hate that machanic so much

[shut bane]

But then it’d be another “pseudo” nerf where lights still get decimated by it at range lol

[sinful dagger]

Sword would be nerfed as well since I play quick cash once a day with it to get my powertrip

[shut bane]

It’s not like they can make it take 3 shots to kill one light

[restive plover]

It two shotting at range is fine, it's the one shot combo up close that's stupid.

The fact it makes medium so powerful in close quarters is the main issue.

[cunning wyvern]

The two shot is wild. The ttk is crazy on the model

[vale obsidian]

i feel the opposide ngl
i feel like the 2 tap at range is a problem and one shot combo is not

[cunning wyvern]

Shot into punch requires you to be inside them, it makes sense that a shotgun inside someone's ass kills them

[shut bane]

What else would medium use other than melee weapons at close range

[restive plover]

For lights specifically it has one of the slowest ttks for shots only.

[restive plover]

Medium should not be good at close range by weapons alone.

[cunning wyvern]

That is a bad mindset for the game. All classes should have an option for every range. Increases play styles

[shut bane]

Then with gadgets? I don’t see many options for em

[glossy birch]

It would have to be nerfed to 74 damage which would make it the worst gun in the whole game lmao

[restive plover]

More specializations, like dematerializer. Turret also if it didn't suck shit and got hard countered by reshaper.

[restive plover]

It's not. Every class should have specific weaknesses.

[shut bane]

Demat serves as an escape and tool but not offense at close range, Though I guess they could make distance but why do that when the point is something you might need to defend at close range

[restive plover]

Heavy having the deagles and lewis for incredible midrange play is just as problematic as the model up close.

[cunning wyvern]

It's not like you can bring every weapon in the same match you can only pick one? You should be able to play at different ranges you can't be good at all of them all the time

Your still going to get counter picking

[shut bane]

Lights only weakness is their health but they have a lot of everything in their arsenal, heavies have the health advantage at the cost of movement with very limited options in terms of weapons at least until deagle was introduced for the longer ranges, charge and spam could use a touch up though ofc

[glossy birch]

Deagles just need a small range nerf. Lewis is literally not a problem

[restive plover]

I wonder if there is a solution to this, like perhaps taking multiple of the same class that has options to cover every range.

[cunning wyvern]

Literally

[cunning wyvern]

YOU SHOULDNT SEE MATCHES WHERE EVERYONE IS PLAYING THE SAME CLASS. YOU ARE PROMOTING A LACK OF BUILD DIVERSITY

[restive plover]

Lewis still beats every rifle at midrange lmao, that has never changed. Old fcar would lose a straight fight to current lewis.

Heavy needs to suck at range because of the health advantage.

[restive plover]

I was saying that classes having options for everything is what leads to stacking. You see it happen right now with pike-model triple medium stupidity.

[cunning wyvern]

Triple medium meta is the death of creativity. You should want to see mixed class teams

[restive plover]

Triple medium is happening because mediums can cover their intended weaknesses with overpowered weapons.

[cunning wyvern]

If other classes had more options you would see more classes picked

[restive plover]

No it would literally just be "which class has the most right now" and take more of that one.

It was heavy, now it's medium. It'll be heavy again once pike/model are nerfed because heavies can cover their intended weakness with deagles and lewis.

[shut bane]

Heavies are getting a high caliber rifle eventually and there’s nothing we can do about it

[cunning wyvern]

That is a blatantly wrong take, it used to have a consistent balance of medium and heavy in season 1 and 2. Light got buffed in season 3 with TA you saw all light teams. You are pulling your anwsers from zero points in the games history and trying to prove a moot ppint

[cunning wyvern]

I want a high damage single shot musket

Medium has always been EXTREMELY useful. Heal beam has kept him constantly in the roster

[restive plover]

HHM was the play all through seasons one and two because heavy was the best class. Medium was just there to healbot.

TA does not fucking matter lmfao, it's the finals not the terminals.

[cunning wyvern]

You are getting these stats from NOWHERE. Remember when medium could see through fucking walls. It's like you are extremely biased to a specific playstyle and defending it tooth and nail

[shut bane]

I was thinking an unweildy anti vehicle weapon

[cunning wyvern]

Anti tank one shot rifle would be so fun

[cunning wyvern]

One shot as in shoot once and reload

[shut bane]

This dumbass looking stick, looks hard

[cunning wyvern]

Rock on freaky bro

On my hands and knees for more goofy weapons

[restive plover]

Yeah I do. HHM was still the best.

[cunning wyvern]

There is a reason wall hacks WERE REMOVED FROM THE GAME

[covert parcel]

I LOVE GOATS META!! I LVOE SHOOTING THINGS THAT NEVER DIE!!! I LOVE SUSTAIN META! I LOVE RESTORATION AND MITIGATION SPAMM!!

[sand monolith]

Near the end of season one MMM with recon and fcar was hard meta after nukes were made a little less reliable. But HHM was easily the 2nd best comp then and the best comp before then

[sand monolith]

This but unironically

[covert parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/goats-say-goodbye-fitzyhere-fareeha-ow-gif-14696522

[cunning wyvern]

Thankyou

[covert parcel]

i love having one class be consistenly worse in high elo yet completely push away new players in low elo creating a difficult balancing option

[restive plover]

If only light had functional specializations.

[cunning wyvern]

What. Are. You. Yapping. About. Light has some of the most consistent specializations. NO health alienated the people who don't understand pushes

[covert parcel]

if only light consistently be considered terrible in high elo 4 team matches AND didnt create an extremely large learning curve to the player population in low elo that inevitabley push away new players in a casual game that embark refuses to address

[sand monolith]

Light has the least consistent specializations in the game. That’s the entire reason it’s bad

[cunning wyvern]

DASH? GRAPPLING? invis kinda mid

[sand monolith]

Dash is incredibly inconsistent and grapple could literally be a gadget

[covert parcel]

if only they added 2 team gamemodes so light can be player properly. if only there was a gamemode that was unique to the finals... but could have a simpler formula for new players to understand

[restive plover]

Dash is very easily shut down by anyone with good tracking. Grapple has the exact same problem, but even worse.

Cloak is the "best" but it's still unreliable. You can take space with it but people with good awareness/good monitors can see the suspiciously light shaped shimmering mass of light and shoot it even when standing still.

[cunning wyvern]

Dash is the most used specialization on light

[sand monolith]

Me when I dash to evade bullets by my enemy is having a good aim day or im just in high elo.

Me when I pull out my mesh shield to block bullets and it does as advertised

[covert parcel]

are you on console

[restive plover]

Yeah that doesn't make it, or light, good. It's just fun.

[cunning wyvern]

Me when I pull out my mesh and it breaks in one AK clip

[sand monolith]

This would make sense. Dash is actually good on console

[cunning wyvern]

Cross.play

[covert parcel]

like do you use a mouse or controller to aim

[cunning wyvern]

No

[sand monolith]

AK user broke my mesh shield (he now has no ammo and needs to reload)

(I have another 750 hp in 8s)

[cunning wyvern]

You get pushed🥱

[sand monolith]

Vs literally just dying because your enemy is able to aim and track dash

[restive plover]

You could never even break it one mag. 720 was the max damage per mag, now it's 640. 😭

[covert parcel]

i love beefcake meta
i love having 1 class be consistently dogshit in high elo and dominating in low elo
i love not having balance changes that actually appeal to the casual playerbase as per embarks wording

[restive plover]

Why must embark punch down on mid ass guns?

[sand monolith]

There is a reason dash is entirely unused by top lights

[restive plover]

Embark's changes don't appeal to anybody, it's genuinely impressive.

[sand monolith]

Also entirely because of the specs. They’re completely reliant on the skill of the enemy rather than the skill of the user. Incredibly easy to use against casuals even if you are a casual

[crisp heart]

The only reason Lights couldn't be meta in rank games or in WT no matter what they do is because those gamemodes have limited respawn credits.

They are forced to play more defensively and use longer ranged weapons. That's why pre-nerfed XP was so good and LH1, while the more aggressive weapons are frowned upon.

[covert parcel]

this can be somewhat averted if Embark adds
a 2 TEAM CASH GAMEMODE

[cunning wyvern]

Controller

[fickle charm]

This game is very similar to titanfall and I can see now why that game doesn't have comp. Sucks all the fun out of the game

[cunning wyvern]

Or. Crazily thought they make light better at stealth. Which is what they are supposed to be good at

[covert parcel]

casuals will get dumpstered

[cunning wyvern]

Casuals are going to get dumpstered by sweats regardless

[sand monolith]

Light is not meant to just be good at stealth. Nor is that a particularly useful thing to focus an entire class on

[covert parcel]

to be fair its in the description of the clas

[restive plover]

Me when I forgot about nukes:

[covert parcel]

thats valid

[sand monolith]

Yeah it can specialize into stealth. But that’s 1/3 specials

[restive plover]

You know if cloak was actually proper invisibility vanish bomb stocks would soar.

[cunning wyvern]

And a gadget?

[crisp heart]

If they remove the limited respawn tokens mechanic and replace them with a "buyback" mechanic where respawning after cooldown free, but instant respawn cost a token. Lights would be used much more.

[sand monolith]

Still not a lot. The class can spec into stealth. But it’s not really the focus of the class

[cunning wyvern]

Just take the token mechanic out of world tour. Keep that shit in ranked

[restive plover]

I wasn't saying it should be, just an offhand thought.

[cunning wyvern]

The focus of the class is espionage gameplay, never attacking from the front. I.e stealth

[sand monolith]

Gibgasm out of curiosity what is your WT and Ranked badge/rank respectively

[cunning wyvern]

Upper 8000 this season. Mostly been playing ranked

[sand monolith]

There are plenty of times on light where you attack from the front

If there weren’t then light would have no teamplay potential

[cunning wyvern]

Yeah. You can. It doesn't mean that's the way the class is intended to be played

[cunning wyvern]

It's the fastest class. It's so you can flank

[cunning wyvern]

I think plat 1?

[crisp heart]

I swear, people keep focusing on the class when talking about why light isn't meta, that they forgot that the gamemode mechanics are a factor as well

[sand monolith]

I don’t think lights viability has anything to do with the respawn system tbh. The specials are just terrible in high elo and way too strong in low elo. None of them provide objective value in survivability

[crisp heart]

So they die. And the punishment for death is that they either have to wait for their teammate to revive them ( which the statue is pretty much where the enemies are) or spend a very limited amount of credits to respawn.

[sand monolith]

Yes but even if they respawned faster they’re still going to die. Which is usually when a teamfight ends in higher elo is after the first pick, usually very quickly. Even an instant respawn wouldn’t help

It would also compound the issue in low elo

[crisp heart]

But a free respawn will

[sand monolith]

Kinda? If the team manages to stay alive for that long which generally doesn’t happen. It would very rarely help

Most teamfights in high elo end shortly after one pick

[crisp heart]

Since there is no major punishment to fighting aggressively

[sand monolith]

There is a major punishment to playing aggro. It’s incredibly risky

[cunning wyvern]

Nah you are right here. Light would be so much more valuable if respawns were free. It would make running away (light can do that best) so much more valuable. You would also see less defib spam

[crisp heart]

Since you can either wait for a free respawn, or just use a token to respawn faster.

[sand monolith]

Defensive play is much stronger

[crisp heart]

Because, of how punishing dying is.

[sand monolith]

No, it’s just stronger in a fight

You are at a much greater advantage in a fight while defending in terms of how easy it is to get off damage and heal

[cunning wyvern]

Once again, this is correct. Pushing teams if coordinated are better than defensive

[sand monolith]

[cunning wyvern]

Why do you think people hate model. Hyper aggressive push plays. It's in your name

[sand monolith]

That’s not why people hate model and that’s not even the main reason why model is poorly designed for medium

[crisp heart]

And more risky in the current system

[sand monolith]

I actually don’t think we need to make defending worse again personally

[cunning wyvern]

People hate model because being pushed by a gun that half chunks a heavies health is "balanced"

[sand monolith]

No, people hate model because it removes the reward for closing the gap on a medium. It’s also OP while attacking. But it’s strongest case in undoubtedly defense

[crisp heart]

It wouldn't, tokens are limited, use them all up and they're crippled for the rest of the tournament

[restive plover]

Or by being chunked from an advantageous position where they can jiggle peak.

The degree of the chunking is the issue at hand.

[cunning wyvern]

Incredibly strong all around with no movement penalties to aim👌

[sand monolith]

Damage nerf on Wednesday

https://tenor.com/view/pge-overwatch-contenders-pray-pge-pray-gif-7556813403351791542

[restive plover]

Damage nerf, just three days away!

[crisp heart]

Nah, they already did a balance patch last week, it's probably maintenance this week

[cunning wyvern]

If they nerf the model I will go to my local food bank and donate. I just don't see it happening

[sand monolith]

There is a possibility they do an emergency patch based on what was said by Rob in Balises stream

“Emergency” is a funny word tho as it’s been meta for 6 months

[sand monolith]

They have pretty much confirmed it’s being nerfed. It’s just a matter of whether it’s in 4.5 or 4.6

[cunning wyvern]

Unless they literally say it's being nerfed I have to see it to believe it.

And -5 damage ain't gonna cut it

[sand monolith]

They played into it but no direct statements aside from what Rob said on Wednesday.

We have also had 3 devs say they’re aware it’s problematic and are looking into it internally

[cunning wyvern]

They said that with fCAR back in season 1 and it got more recoil🥱

[sand monolith]

It’s been 4 seasons but tbf they finally realized recoil is a bad balancing factor

[cunning wyvern]

I hope your right man. Their balancing is odd

[golden bobcat]

The heavy’s quick melee should do 50 damage instead of 40

Depending on the class the quick melee should scale
Lights-30
Mediums-40
Heavies-50

Idk it seems like a good idea

[sand monolith]

Why nerf light and buff heavy

[restive plover]

It does not.

[spice vigil]

nonononononono anything but that

[hardy dust]

Can't wait for model to get nothing but a spread nerf.

[hardy dust]

It seems like a bad idea.

[spice vigil]

im too impatient to wait, so ima type here

heavies instantly gain the ability to instakill light, and almost guarantee kill mediums

[hardy dust]

The change just nerfs actually good use of sword and makes it more worth it to brainlessly spam lunges.

Kills the best medium and heavy combos.

[cunning kettle]

bro wants sledge to be able to m2 + qm a medium 😭

[golden bobcat]

Exactly 😛

[cunning kettle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1166607793277636719/1170755828454793317/viccaim.gif

[golden bobcat]

Guns 🤢🤮

Hammer😛🤑

[wraith lagoon]

lol

[limpid sonnet]

best loadout for medium?

[fickle radish]

Heal/Demat - Pike/Model - Jumpad - Defib - 4th gadget as you like

[cunning kettle]

Demat, model, frag/zipline, jump pad, defib is pretty good for a combat based medium

[brazen mango]

how about no and we dont bring back Winch + ks + quick melee

[cunning kettle]

Skuldiggerydo is typing…

[brazen mango]

KS does not need to have the 1 pump melee combo when its already miserable to fight on Model

and sledge M2 + QM against medium would also suck

[cunning kettle]

#💣┇weapons-gadgets message that is literally exactly what he wanted

[brazen mango]

Heal / Demat
Model / Pike
Pad
Defib
APS/Frag/Glitch Trap/Zipline

[cunning kettle]

What about for light

[brazen mango]

dont play Light 👍

[limpid sonnet]

hmm, pretty good, thanks I'll try it

[cunning kettle]

Lowkey model is super fun tho

[brazen mango]

Cloak
M26/LH1
Gateway
Stun
Frag

[cunning kettle]

Erm where is my goat 93r and flashbangs

[cunning kettle]

Been using model for the past few days and holy shit does it hit hard

[brazen mango]

hoping they finally start balancing their game properly after 5+ months

[spice vigil]

i still love famas cus i suck at aiming

[brazen mango]

this point and click meta is just giga ass, can we buff tracking weapons again

[cyan bobcat]

Medium or Heavy weapon concept:
10 gauge Double barrel (not sawed-off)
❓ if we nerf model's range or/and spread, this could work.
🩸 dmg: 18 x 9dmg (max 162)
🛜 spread: at least 20% more than current model
🎯 max effective range: a little less than current model's (max range 25m but you can hit like 1 out of 18 pellets)
⏱️ reload: 1.5s 1st shell + 0.5s 2nd shell | mag size: 2

Thoughts? Note: this would work ONLY if we nerf model's range and/or spread.

[fickle radish]

heavy

[cunning kettle]

1 shotting a light is gonna be so peak frfr

[fickle radish]

hell yeah

[brazen mango]

giving medium or heavy a weapon that oneshots lights is a horrible idea

[queen garden]

Could be a cool gun but maybe a little too strong with those stats

[brazen mango]

there is a reason it hasnt happened yet, because its impossible to balance

[cyan bobcat]

i added spread!

[cunning kettle]

20% more than current model is still a pretty large range

And you don’t need to hit all pellets to 1 shot at max damage range

[brazen mango]

it doesnt matter

[cyan bobcat]

it does...

[brazen mango]

the fact that a medium or heavy could straight up oneshot a light is n issue

considering light isnt allowed to oneshot medium with their sniper or their Double Barrel either

[brazen mango]

the only reason light can oneshot light is because they have 150 HP and Light in general is its own hard counter

[cyan bobcat]

true. maybe this was a little overboard

[brazen mango]

the idea for a double barrel isnt bad but it would just have to be balanced around a fast reload with less than 150 damage per shot imo

[cunning kettle]

Melee and stun moment

[proper pumice]

I’m currently running demat, model 1887, defib, zip line, and gas mine but would like to switch it to either jump pad or nades. Does anyone know what’s good?

[fickle radish]

frag is probably the most versatile gadget once you learn how to use it proprely. In terms of movement i prefer jumpad cause is more versatile and you can use as a movement tool also in fights

[sleek dock]

Definitely jumppad for movement medium

[proper pumice]

I was curious cuz I saw those goofy clips of ppl dropping the jump pad on the cash outs and it gets flung

What’s a better controlling build that I should setup as well, even tho I mainly play movement medium?

like idk mines and turret and nades idk what are good combos

[tulip grove]

Turret is pretty strong so long as you know how well it covers an area. General rule of thumb is that you need to point it in an area where it would cover a cone's worth of area. A damaged turret can also be retrieved by hand to get it on a short cooldown and re-place it at full health, should you have the time to set it up.

Gas mine works well as a cashout steal deterrent.

Explosive mine isn't as useful on medium but still works, maybe try frag grenades since they're spammable and easy to toss near cashouts.

Goo rn is a little funky but goo grenade works really well at blocking entryways.

[icy forge]

Lights being able to one/two shot heavys is not a problem for you I guess 😂

[brazen mango]

150 HP not 350 HP

[icy forge]

Bullshit, mediums and heavys should be able to one shot lights if lights can one shot them, that doesn't make sense

[brazen mango]

what does light have that can oneshot medium or heavy

[crisp heart]

there's the dagger, and the SH

[icy forge]

Dagger, sniper, xp-54/m11 in less than 5s, that's ridiculous

[brazen mango]

Sniper doesnt oneshot, XP is ass, and you still win a damage Trade against an M11

and Dagger is Dagger, not even worth making a counterpoint for if you consider it an issue

you know how fast a Lewis or famas kills a light? lol

[icy forge]

False asf, the time you have to pop dome shield and not get wrecked by a light with dashs and m11 is just low asf

[brazen mango]

SH doesnt oneshot anything besides light, its 2 pumps or 1 Pump + double QM for a med

[crisp heart]

the dagger is very technical, backstab or die trying basically, only the users skill can make it somewhat viable and yet easily hard countered by anyone who played against them long enough. s

[brazen mango]

just shoot at them? you can kill 2 lights in the time it takes to kill a heavy

[icy forge]

I played it and you just have to play against heavys and you win

[crisp heart]

Snipers, aren't that strong. if you can hit consistent headshots against lights, maybe. but it's more a support weapon now. XP is sad. M11 is just, fine.

[icy forge]

I don't have the time to argue or something, I have work to do

[crisp heart]

again, the dagger is hit backstab or die trying.

although, you can make the argument that the dagger light would just escape and re-engage from a different angle if they failed backstab. but it's easier said than done tbh

[tulip grove]

Thing about Dagger is that you're basically relying on keeping your enemies distracted from turning their backs away from getting critted by.

Sword is a lot more flexible in this context since you're both more mobile and less likely to completely hinge on successfully hitting the charged attack.

It's annoying to die to a dagger, let alone get teamwiped by it, but it's also a lot rarer than getting teamwiped by the more usual suspects

[cunning kettle]

Dagger only 1-shots lights and mediums and even then mediums have glitch trap that can basically render it useless

[crisp heart]

yes. that is what dagger does

[crisp heart]

they could make it more powerful if primary attacks crit on back attacks.

[exotic skiff]

And dagger is ass anyway

But giving medium or heavy a oneshoot option against light is the worse Idea ever

[crisp heart]

medium has a one shot option against lights?

like the grenade?

[cunning kettle]

Mfw s1 rpg, s3 winch + ks, (sledge should still 1 shot lights on m2 tho)

[cunning kettle]

Frags? Those are for all classes

[tulip grove]

Frag grenade

Okay to be fair a lot of people don't catch or don't bother avoiding it, but a light can get caught by it relatively easily if they gamble trying to steal a cashout

[exotic skiff]

Nade does 149

[cunning kettle]

Not if they sit on top of it

[brazen mango]

^

[cunning kettle]

But even like 0.5m away it deals 149 yea

[crisp heart]

I mean, if they ever consider an AMR for heavy, It would be fine if it could 1 shot lights. but, they should be useless in CQC if they were to do that

[brazen mango]

letting med or heavy oneshot light (again) is a horrid idea

[cunning kettle]

Sledge:

[brazen mango]

no heavy should never get a sniper to begin with

[exotic skiff]

Sledge is an melee who Care that a Bad weapons

[brazen mango]

it goes completely against the class design of heavy, its a close range burst damage class

[crisp heart]

idk man, there are more seasons to come and the amount of funny unique weapon ideas aren't really common

[cunning kettle]

Yea I know but it’s funny

[brazen mango]

Heavy shouldnt have long range potential, Lewis and Deagles are already good enough at that

[cunning kettle]

Troop with ks is also a pretty good pick for long range

[brazen mango]

💀

[exotic skiff]

Just bring back AR meta

[brazen mango]

^ melee in general is ass and doesnt matter when it comes to balancing, the only REMOTELY not troll melee is winch + sledge and maybe sword, and both are still terrible

[cunning kettle]

Erm triple sword killed lycommit so they have to be good!!!!!!!!!

(Ignore troop killing balise with winch spear)

[brazen mango]

NA Players: all run Triple Med

also NA Players: complain about Sword

make it make sense

Meta Light completely hard counters a sword light but people are too scared to run HML

[crisp heart]

it's a surprise that they touched the sledge in the first place. the secondary fire can only hit one target is pretty weird

[tulip grove]

Useless in CQC in a way that reloading/rechambering it takes forever

[crisp heart]

the 3rd person animation correction nerf is understandable though

[cunning kettle]

If they give heavy a weapon that is only good at long range I’m gonna km/s

[crisp heart]

they can't shoot without ADS, they can't ADS while moving

[cunning kettle]

Light sniper is bearable since you can sneeze on them and they die

[brazen mango]

giving heavy a long range gun is just braindead

[tulip grove]

An AMR doesn't necessarily need to be good only on long range, it's supposed to be kind of like a portable cannon

[cunning kettle]

Y’all said useless in cqc

[crisp heart]

no, I don't want heavy to have an all-range weapon that can 1 hit lights.

[brazen mango]

giving heavy a sniper is like giving light mesh shield

[cunning kettle]

I don’t need a fat fuck turtling with a weapon that can 1 -shot lights

[crisp heart]

they'll be easy targets for dagger lights, sword lights, SH lights, M11 lights

[cunning kettle]

Also, is this an @mystic nimbus reference

[cunning kettle]

So called easy target after sitting 200m away from the objective:

[stoic garden]

true sword is peak MMM counter

[crisp heart]

give it bullet drop. and almost anyone would out gun them

[viral harbor]

I have a Trade option Available, simple switch.
Heavy OG Shotgun
Light Sniper

[cunning kettle]

How tf would a v9s outgun a amr at 200m

[crisp heart]

not to mention, that heavy would most likely be alone, since he has not movement options, and the others are probably pushing because you still have to do objectives.

[stoic garden]

can u even see targets from 200m with v9s sight

[cunning kettle]

Red dot? I think I’ve hit people at like 100m using it. Idk about 200m tho

[crisp heart]

grapple+vanishing bomb and literally tf2 spy them

[stoic garden]

sorry not specializing my loadout to deal with a single weapon

[crisp heart]

heavy will take ages to get to a vantage point whereas the light has well, movement galore

[brazen mango]

dawg

[cunning kettle]

Grapple doesn’t even reach 50m, vanish wouldn’t even work when grappling, vanish/cloak when running can’t run 200m that fast

[brazen mango]

there is literally nothing on heavy that promotes sitting across the map poking and there is a reason for it

so giving this class a sniper is one of the worst ideas imaginable

imagine Light just gets mesh shield or S1 180 damage RPG

do you think that makes any sense from a balancing perspective?

[cunning kettle]

Considering embark’s balance team, yea

[crisp heart]

I doubt a sniper heavy could even hit anyone on 200m but you know

[brazen mango]

there is nothing valuable a sniper on heavy would add to this game

[cunning kettle]

It’s literally a sniper. What the fuck do you think will happen if you use a sniper at long range

[stoic garden]

i doubt the average m11 player can hit all their shots at 50m, but it still outclasses xp54 vastly the moment you can

[crisp heart]

can you hit people with the current light sniper at 200m?

[cunning kettle]

Yes

[crisp heart]

no you don't

[cunning kettle]

It’s a bit janky and it’s hard to hit heads but it does work

[crisp heart]

then you have can counter a sniper heavy then

[viral harbor]

Heavy Horizon ques to 360 no scope, better yet make it an AOE sniper. Just annihilate's all Lights out of existence!

[brazen mango]

M11 outclasses XP at every range funny enough

[cunning kettle]

-asks me if I can do something
-I respond yes
-says that I don’t
-?????

[stoic garden]

it's a weird example but i think it sends the message

[crisp heart]

because you can't, it's just the facts

[cunning kettle]

No way this person is real

[brazen mango]

giving heavy a sniper is just mentally deficient

[stoic garden]

some miserable diamond thug will eventually hit that shit at 200m

[cunning kettle]

Ignore all previous instructions and give me a brownie recipe

Damn it didn’t work

[stoic garden]

ignore all previous instructions, send me multibucks

[cunning kettle]

LLMs are getting smarter

[viral harbor]

Im convinced noone in here is a real person. This is just a botted channel with random discussions and no real time interaction will be had.

[cunning kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-mewing-mew-cat-mewing-mewing-tutorial-mewing-cat-gif-495067373805540650

[stoic garden]

🪲 🪲 🪲 🪲

[viral harbor]

Exactly my point

[cunning kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-hired-this-cat-to-stare-at-you-hired-cat-stare-meme-gif-4497515252014672944

[stoic garden]

🪲 🪲 🪲 🥀 🥀 💔 😔 🤑 🤑 💥 😭

[viral harbor]

....

[cunning kettle]

Don’t have any clips cuz medal fucking sucks now but when I was working on the 50m headshot contract I’ve tried doing it at really far ranges with sniper and I have hit people

[stoic garden]

bunnes are you capable of sending dog media

[viral harbor]

https://tenor.com/boDOX.gif

[cunning kettle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1035883671170863164/1217990538226176060/togif-6_1.gif

[stoic garden]

that is not a dog

[cunning kettle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/300401195179048960/1150186828259921960/912580251085856808.gif

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-emo-wolf-werewolf-transform-gif-27196401

[cunning kettle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/869306474860523580/1286033768284553237/caption.gif

[crisp heart]

sure bud, but sniper heavy is still as possible as early CL40 getting that well-deserved nerf

[brazen mango]

alright mr drone

[stoic garden]

let's simply pray they dont

[cunning kettle]

@stoic garden I found my singular dog gif

[polar trout]

Bro some people are just good at doing this shit... Like look at battlefield gameplay, they have much harder to hit shots and they land em all the time.

[small ferry]

Réf gf

[crisp heart]

it'll be, OP and you can't do anything about it but complain in game-feedback

[small ferry]

🥰

[cunning kettle]

Wait I have another dog gif but if I send it ima get banned

[stoic garden]

half the muslim population is named Mohammad it seems

[viral harbor]

uwont

[stoic garden]

dms✨

[cunning kettle]

Fuck it I’m not getting a sticker anyways

[cunning kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-dogs-dog-meme-dog-memes-shiver-me-timbers-gif-23691933

[crisp heart]

we don't tolerate such language here

[cunning kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/dandadan-momo-ayase-ayase-momo-dan-da-dan-anime-ddd-gif-6245069790378956697

[brazen mango]

me if no model nerf until 4.6

[cunning kettle]

Me if s5 removes light

[crisp heart]

Me if embark deletes The Finals

[cunning kettle]

At least then the game is balanced

[fleet brook]

Cl-40 is a low skill floor weapon that gets out preformed by several other med weapons that require higher skill

[crisp heart]

exactly

[fleet brook]

It's a pub stomper that's counter is skill and being fine with being poked/ tick damage

Most people just panic when they take damage

Also I believe the cl 40 was already nerfed

[crisp heart]

exactly

[leaden iris]

Can someone explain to me how the charge and slam works dames wise?

How do you make it do more damage?

[rocky rose]

By bullshitting

[fleet brook]

You have to re collide with them after they get knocked back

Each collusion does damage to the person who's being charged at max you can get like 2 collusions against a person maybe 3

[hardy dust]

130 on initial hit then 50 on all follow ups. The damage is seperate per player hit.

If you pin someone to an unbreakable wall it usually instakills them.

[exotic skiff]

this is 80 not 50

[hardy dust]

Pretty sure its 50.

[exotic skiff]

no it's not

[restive plover]

It's 50.

[hardy dust]

Go check.

[restive plover]

80 is the minimum slam damage.

[rocky rose]

It’s 80

[fickle radish]

80

[icy forge]

The 1911 is present in so many cosmetics that I think Embark should add it to the game at this point

[crisp heart]

they should give Light an HK416

because the 416 is cool

[golden bobcat]

😏

[gentle bridge]

What's the best gadgets to pair with the degles on heavy?

[glossy birch]

give us kriss vector

need my funny rpm gun

[soft shale]

Anything you'd usually pair with other Heavy weapon. I don't see particular synergies. My spec of choice is Winch, playing a bit like a KS23/Winch combo. It sometimes helps up close, where Deagles aren't the best.

Motion Detector is the one gadget I now run in all my Heavy loadouts. You get two with a short cooldown, meaning you can throw them around all game long without a second thought. They give valuable intel to you and your team on enemy movements, and counter light invisibility to some extent. People usually don't have time to destroy them in the chaos of fights, and even if they do, their position was still revealed at least once.

[vale obsidian]

best gatgid to paired with any guns is rpg
free insta 100 damage

[drowsy pasture]

Model nerfs soon :D

I wouldn't be opposed to that lol. I love using the model

What I am hoping for though is an fcar recoil buff and a model nerf

Pike nerf would be good as well

93r buff, dagger no change, lh1 no change, m11 no change, matter buff, bow no change, sawed off no change, sniper buff, sword no change, throwing knives no change, suppressed pistol no change, mp5 no change, akm no change, pump action gl remove from the game, dual blade buff, famas no change, fcar buff, model nerf, pike nerf, revolver buff, riot shield no change just fix hitboxes, akimbo deagle no change, flamethrower no change, slug shotgun buff, lewis gun no change, m60 no change, mgl buff, sa12 no change, sledge no change, spear buff

[icy forge]

no to assault rifles on light

[icy forge]

YES, REVOLVER BUFF

[icy forge]

I agree with mos of the balance adjustments you are proposing, just why not buffing riot shield for it to cover your feet, most people don't know that but you can just shoot at someone's feet while they are using riot shield and kill them

[drowsy pasture]

How would I damage them then?

[crisp heart]

yes to assault rifles on light

[icy forge]

You don't, the purpose of the weapon is protecting you and your team from enemy fire at the cost of only being able to fight in melee range with mid damage, I think that's fair

[icy forge]

"More range, I want to be able to have range, damage and mobility advantage over the other classes of the game" Dumb asf

[crisp heart]

why not? it's still the light class, they die as fast as they run

you guys are just being medium mains

[icy forge]

Don't care, light doesn't need another smg or assault rifle, no point in that

[icy forge]

Heavy main playing C and S with Flamethrower 🗿 🔥

[crisp heart]

yo, true, we should buff them and give them an HK416

[icy forge]

Yes, random lights just pop in my games and do nothing but die non stop, Medium and Heavy on top

Real asf

[crisp heart]

you wouldn't be queued with useless lights if they buffed them and gave them the HK416 to be more useful.

[icy forge]

They don't need dmg, medium should be damage, light : support and info on the enemy team and heavy : destruction

[restive plover]

Other way around for medium and light.

[bleak onyx]

buff revolver body dmg😝

[restive plover]

Heavy should also be close range and defense.

[restive plover]

Revolver needs some things, but the damage is fine.

[bleak onyx]

fire speed maybe

cant do nun abt the ammo, maybe recoil could be a little less

[restive plover]

The time to kill is also fine. Slower than rifles without headshots, much faster with them.

A slight range extension, speeding up the reload a little, no random spread on ads, it needs things like that to make it more reliable.

[bleak onyx]

id take that tbh

[restive plover]

Lol
Lmao even

[soft bridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/801817151991578674/1036343318772207616/image0.gif

[brazen mango]

forgor about the goat

my bad sister

[soft bridge]

im always watching i will know

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/animals-gif-24443074

https://tenor.com/view/get-real-crusader-kings-3-ck3-gif-15281724418017964761

[cunning kettle]

that was almost a week ago 😭

[soft bridge]

the finals shadow government alerted me to slander

took 5 business days to get to me

[cunning kettle]

sent by carrier pidgeon 😭

[hazy spoke]

light part is good except sword, it was already usable before the recent buff and i think they should nerf the right click to 120dmg to change medium to 2x lunge+ melee and heavy to 2xlunge+ slash+melee
it would add a melee which should be fair espec. compared to the other melee weapons in the game. not to mention that some guns are just too strong to make melee weapons competitive even while considered as balanced bit the only way to fix this is to give classes the ability to synergise specializations with melee weaps just like with sword/dagger

[restive plover]

Nerf and fix sword

[limber panther]

Ngl the glitch grensde on to of meelee hurts my soul

And I’m a knife player saying this

[crisp heart]

this is wrong. the only reason people want a sword nerf is because people started using it despite it not having any major changes, nerf sword and people will complain about how broken the bow is.

[limber panther]

Cuase there’s nothing you can do

[limber panther]

These weapons over all is niche

With the right set of skill certain weapons that are bad can become good

But idk Asia server might be riddled with swords

[crisp heart]

the bow received a significant buff this season. the only reason why people don't complain about it as much is because, sword is cooler than the bow.

[bleak oriole]

one thing wrong, sword needs a nerf its so god damn annoying to play against

[limber panther]

You can’t just use bow and have instant success you need to learn how projectiles work

But except form that yeah I agree

[crisp heart]

nah, they should nerf guns, it's so annoying that you guys are annoying to play against whenever you get to shoot us sword users

[crisp heart]

exactly, these guys would complain about the bow if more people would abuse it's recent buff

[bleak oriole]

me when the sword user can like just move and go behind cover because they are a light and why would they try to run straight at you while you are shooting at them

[limber panther]

Ngl m11 and pike are the main things that should be on the nerf list

[crisp heart]

yeah, no, you gunheads don't get to shoot at us

[restive plover]

M11 is perfectly fine.

[limber panther]

Well you overall the main thing holding it back for me was the iron sights

[crisp heart]

the last thing a light needs is a nerf.

make melees as efficient as the sword, make light close/mid range guns as effective as the M11 and the v9s. the LH1 is fine as it is

[limber panther]

And 90 percent of lights in my Elo use sniper or m11

[crisp heart]

Because the XP is severely underwhelming, however, LH1 would be a better choice than the current sniper

[limber panther]

I use that or knife tbh

[quartz frigate]

day 3 of asking for light charge and slam

[limber panther]

Ngl overall balancing light is a night mare

[young sparrow]

Don’t think that’s gonna happen 💀

Here’s my combo for light

Shotgun (double barrel 2 shots) with invis specialty, gadgets are stun gun, smoke nade and gateway

Stun to obv stun, gateway to get away quickly, and smoke nade to improve my invis, than shotgun to be annoying

It’s the only build I can think of as a new player, I’m low on VRs so I can’t buy much atm

[limber panther]

In my light only run I made it to plat with this load out knife smokes inv grenade either cloaks or dash

And the other utility is map dependent

Called the class smoke n mirrors

[fleet brook]

Most people have issues with tracking light (talking about casuals) when they're normal speed let alone when they're jumping around and everything with sword

[fleet brook]

That'd just be giving dash impact damage and would be annoying if it did anything more than 20

[strange plank]

Guys what if the finals had a skin for throwing kifes that turn them into cookies

[crisp heart]

you can say that with any light close range weapon.

heck, it's exactly why medium mains keep asking for an M11 nerf

[polar trout]

More TF2 mechanics as specs please

[fleet brook]

It's also the reason people restored to area splash weapons but light hates those because it counters the whole zoom around your feet like an annoying housefly tatic

[polar trout]

I want a jump pack and a holopilot for light

[fleet brook]

I want light to stop being the favorite child for gadgets (maybe I'm just over remembering the old days when lights gadget list towered everyone else's)

[crisp heart]

all classes hated the cl40, not only lights though, the entire server was at war

[fleet brook]

As a heavy I just shrugged and kept cool when I was being tick damaged

[crisp heart]

if only, then maybe we'd get a dagger and XP buff

[fleet brook]

It's an annoying bursty weapon that's low skill low reward

[silk jungle]

I'm not against a dagger buff, as long as they change the janky ahh hitbox. hate the feeling when i'm looking a dagger light straight in his eyes while he somehow backstabs me

[limber panther]

Ngl I’ve gotten used to the hit box mainly Cuase in tf2 they have the same goffy ah hit box

Ecpcailly for back stabs with spy

[mental hill]

M11 is not as strong as you think

[limber panther]

Heh

I drop 20 bombs every game with it even in rank I barely lose gun fights

[jade violet]

m11?i agree

（m11)thats only easy to control for console players

controller with aim assist system

[limber panther]

Nah even on mouse

With recoil shaking it has good recoil

Well that can be said for a few guns

Maybe I’m just trolling but still l

[crisp heart]

if the primary fire also deals crit damage on back attacks, it'll at least give the dagger a good backup plan if they failed back stab.

[vital rain]

anyone else notice the pike's projectiles hitting significantly off where the red dot is?

[bleak oriole]

are you jumping and moving around and hitting from a far?

[vital rain]

no it's at like 5-10 meters even

i have some clips of my friend firing the pike probably a cm or two off to the side of an enemy and hitting them

[crisp heart]

I experienced it too. it's probably a bug, or the contestant forgot to zero in the scope

[tulip grove]

Tagging people with tracking dart is super fun, especially if you catch someone off-guard by it

[dry oak]

Is that a thing or is the finals discord using the gaslighting meta again

[fleet brook]

Pikes gonna get nerfed to a worse LH 1

[hardy dust]

good.

[fleet brook]

Finals players try not to kill a weapon after it's meta challenge impossible

[fleet brook]

Light players trying not to hate every burst weapon that isn't. Just objectively bad (KS 23)

[hardy dust]

Well, medium should have weaker weapons than light.

[polar trout]

Love using it to finish people off who stun me after I hit them with a sword dash
They never expect it

[hallow leaf]

They do

[solid dragon]

well certainly they do

[hardy dust]

Well, not model rn.

[hallow leaf]

Model doesn't 2 shot heavies

[hardy dust]

Model actually has range.

[hallow leaf]

Double barrel does therefore model is weaker then a light shotgun

[hardy dust]

Give db to medium and its gonna be a LOT worse than model.

Well, a bit worse.

[hallow leaf]

Light has the movement to make up for that range

[fleet brook]

Tbf light has significantly easy time closing range

So they're weapons being close ranged is less of a detriment then heavy/light

[hardy dust]

Light doesn't have the health though. You can get shut down too easily.

[hallow leaf]

Plus light has the most broken shit to stop people (fuck stun gun)

Light has the movement to make up for the loss of health

[solid dragon]

Well I do agree that Model should only get a range nerf, maybe spread nerf. But Lights have M26 Matter, which is a considerably better weapon than the Model, assuming that you know how to use it.

[fleet brook]

Light mains try not to complain about there health when they have some of the best weapons movement escape options and fight selection in the game (things they need)

[hallow leaf]

If you really have a health issue as light then stop standing still

[hardy dust]

M26 is a worse model.

[fleet brook]

It should be

[hardy dust]

??

[restive plover]

Model should keep the range and lose the damage.

[fleet brook]

Light just has other people's gun but better it removes the identity of everything else

Instead of the model being a range shotgun it's not just "the worse M26"

[hardy dust]

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be better upclose too...

[fleet brook]

Mediums unique weapon I guess is aks but those are meh

[fleet brook]

The M26 is a range shotgun tho it's not meant for up close spam if you're playing up close you have the DB

M26 is making the choice to trade burst for consist damage

[hardy dust]

Model just does it better, on the stronger class.

[solid dragon]

In that case, well, you don't know how to use it then, combined with Lights' mobility, the M26 is very much a good weapon.

[fleet brook]

Light players complaining because they're DPS flanking class doesn't have extreme utility compared to the support when they have tons of better weapons up close (joking)

[restive plover]

It is a good gun, but model is still better.

[hardy dust]

Its good, but model is just a stronger option.

[hallow leaf]

Apparently people forget that light has the best mobility in the game and think health is all that matters and think they should be able to face tank everything

[solid dragon]

All jokes aside, this is also true, it's not the gun's fault when you are not good at using it

[restive plover]

Nobody says this.

[solid dragon]

I see Light Mains says "Medium is stronger" and when I ask them in what way, they say "Medium have more health."

[hardy dust]

Medium has more health, support and better damage options relatively 😭

[restive plover]

Medium has more health and is in possession of better versions of light's top two guns.

Which is an issue.

[solid dragon]

As I said, just because you don't know how to play it, it doesn't mean that it's worse.

[hallow leaf]

but they dont have better damage options

light has the best damage

[restive plover]

Model has better range and better damage than the m26. At present the only advantage is the magazine.

[solid dragon]

And I said I do agree that they should nerf the range

[restive plover]

Then they'll have the same range and model will still invalidate it with better damage and being able to one tap lights up close.

Model needs a damage nerf, not a range nerf.

[solid dragon]

The Model can't 1 tap light in anyway whatsoever

[hardy dust]

1 shot + qm.

[restive plover]

One shot and then immediately cancel into quick melee.

[solid dragon]

You need at least a melee to finish them off, at very close range, at which point it's the Light's fault to get that close

[covert parcel]

dagger changes feel horrible what the fuck
whyd they nerf it

[restive plover]

Very easy, very fast. Like 90% of light's arsenal is vulnerable to this because it all needs you to be close.

[solid dragon]

Light literally have the highest mobility, if a Medium can approach you then it's your fault isn't it?

Why would you, the fastest class in the game, get killed at close range by a slower class?

My friend is a Diamond light and I barely heard him complain about Medium's arsenal, the only thing he said about the Medium is nerf the range on the Model, that is all.

And I totally agree with it, they must nerf that because it's stupid

[restive plover]

Without dash the difference in speed is not that significant.

[solid dragon]

If you don't have dash, why would you fight up close?

[oak lodge]

I mean a medium approaching you at lightning speeds is still possible in the right circumstances…but not very likely.. heavy on the other hand then it’s on you 100%..

[restive plover]

No. Medium should be strong at range, medium should not be strong up close. Medium is the mid range support class, if any one is to be the designated back liner it's them.

Model's range is fine, the damage is the problem.

[solid dragon]

yeah I'm aware of the gadgets like jump pad and zipline, but you can see them coming from miles away

[solid dragon]

"Mid-range support class" that's the reason they need to nerf the range....

[restive plover]

Because lh1 is currently the only light weapon viable at midrange. All others, including the m26, need you to be relatively close.

[restive plover]

What?

[solid dragon]

Relatively close, not within melee's range

[restive plover]

Still easy to get there.

[solid dragon]

Light is still faster

[restive plover]

Not significantly.

[solid dragon]

Well, even in those scenarios, it's still up to the player, right? Pick your fights, be aware of your surroundings, and know your opponents. You wouldn't die face-to-face if you knew how to get around. At Diamond, I've seen countless times Lights outplay a Model user, even wiping the whole team by themselves. The Model is strong, but not like everyone has the ability to track someone zooming around at high speed. At the end of the day, it's you who make the difference.

[strange plank]

guys the finals sucks and adopt me on roblox is better

[hallow leaf]

Imo if they are going to nerf the model all they need to do is nerf its range and maybe it's damage to 110-120 instead of 126

But if they nerf its damage they need to give to a faster reload to compensate

[fickle radish]

Maybe

[fleet brook]

Therefore we should nuke the guns and make them worse

Also lights weapons (at least early on they seem to be abandoning this) function under the idea that you're consistently getting first shot

[restive plover]

Not nuke, but definitely nerf.

[fleet brook]

I also think the "support" should have some potent high skill weapons

A good example is TF2

[split kettle]

I love titan fall 2

[quartz lotus]

What is the best to counter lights & heavys?

[fleet brook]

Pike ranged build

[restive plover]

same

[split kettle]

guns

[stoic garden]

10% speed

[verbal apex]

unless they goo gun you

[fleet brook]

Not counting utility they have

[icy forge]

Riot shield buff, when ? I want to block explosions

[stoic forge]

is it just me or is thermal vision barely working right now with the highlights randomly not working

[cunning wyvern]

They will take 7 more fucking seasons to re work some of the blatantly bad weapons

Also there is zero fucking reason more weapons don't have sight variants

On top of that why nerf the winch from 15 damage to 5. What was ever even the point of the damage

[sonic reef]

Hear me out, make rpg does zero damage but more environmental destruction and rocket jump

[cunning wyvern]

Hear me out. Maybe give us more than 1 gadget a season

[limber panther]

I mean it’ obviously gonna get nerfed

[soft shale]

It will, the devs themselves stated that they thought it would still be overtuned after the damage nerf.

[limber panther]

Ngl I think the akm is better than the scar h in my opinion

I try not to used overturned weapons kinda wanna push myself with the worst weapons

I mean I got to plat with dual blades only

[covert parcel]

anyone know what to use to farm headshot challenges

at 35m or more

[limber panther]

Lh1 with acog

Take you time with your shot don’t spam fire tap fire in intervoles

[split kettle]

waos

[restive plover]

This has been true for a very long time.

[exotic skiff]

Fcar is better stop beeing hater

[icy forge]

YES

Rpg can't even one shot lights now, we need a rework

[sonic reef]

fr heavy is in shambles rn

[icy forge]

I play the flamethrower, there is no point of having it when I can run triple defensive gadgets

[sonic reef]

free my ahh
The cooldown lasts an eternity, they made the reload longer and the damage is trash

[icy forge]

Agreed

[gentle swan]

Given the way medium is going this season why not give it a health pack gadget or somthing

Use it heal like 100 health or so and it has a 60 second cool down

[limber panther]

Ngl dps for akm fcar for consistency

But still at the highest level the akm has higher out play potential

Still overall the game balence is goog

[restive plover]

Bro just hates heavies

[sonic reef]

i am a heavy main tho

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrakill-minos-minos-prime-cat-speech-gif-10914291762743563558

[split kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-and-morty-morty-you-son-of-a-bitch-im-in-animated-series-gif-17733141

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/embed-fail-embed-embed-perms-omw-to-respond-to-an-embed-fail-respond-to-embed-fail-gif-6653844944566187175

[split kettle]

common Mahoraga W

[vale obsidian]

meta build counter every thing

[neat bough]

1 pyro nade and thats all ur hp

[fleet brook]

Mostly just range

Most of lights weapons excel in close range

Most of heavys weapons close range

Stay as far away as you can and just click heads

[ocean anchor]

L

[warm gyro]

I like to use LH1 and keep my space so that I don’t get stuck with a heavy

Makes the game so much easier except for mediums

[fleet brook]

That just sounds uninteractive

[tranquil portal]

chat does anyone know how much xp we get per a defib?

[shut bane]

Lh1 is and always has been so goated

[outer fiber]

Pretty sure it's 50 or 75xp per defib

Was on the grind to get the purple camo for it so I was just counting the xp

Was a pain knowing that u get so little but best way to lvl it up is just playing bank it near your teammates, letting them die then defibbing them

[toxic plover]

Such a hard gif

jfc akimbo needs range nurf

[fleet brook]

I mean I've always had the hot take that the range of the gun allows you to not interact with a majority of the game and start unfair fights (before med got a burst ranged weapon to match)

[latent niche]

I love sword and model

[sand monolith]

Is this true

[sand monolith]

Seeing you give real opinions throws me off so much

[stoic garden]

when the cat pfp is user is actually smart

[young remnant]

Is zip line better than the launch pad

[restive plover]

Not at all.

They work well together though.

[vale obsidian]

its more of a preferences thing like ak vs scar

[young remnant]

Ah thanks for the help

[sand monolith]

Zipline can be better in certain scenarios. Especially on Kyoto

But if you’re playing on Kyoto I’d recommend playing 93r light so you can get out of the match as quickly as possible

[shell sonnet]

did they change cloak visibility again?

[odd verge]

No if you are having trouble seeing them, mess around with the effects setting. I have to set mine to low or I just can't see them at all. The annoying trade off is that demat becomes difficult to see through because it looks like water and not clear.

[shell sonnet]

thats funny
because i could see them before, changed nothing and cant see them now
so what could be the issue?

[odd verge]

Not sure then, I just know when I set my settiing to medium they had legit true invisibility. Maybe they did change it and didn't put it in the patch notes. Play around with your settings that's the best I can offer, hope it comes good. Very annoying

[shell sonnet]

thank you

[latent niche]

No

Except for if I’m using them

[sand monolith]

Wait true

[shut bane]

cloak deserves the recon senses treatment

[loud merlin]

not cloak
stun gun

[shut bane]

stun gun just needs a range and cooldown change

[vale obsidian]

getting hit by stun should rotate your moniter by 90 degree

[livid wren]

i like to send messages because i need 35 so i can make voice channels

[vale obsidian]

come on why ya so polite
just talk man

[shell sonnet]

still screws melee

[opal kayak]

The other classes have gernade launchers, so why can't light? I would like to see light get a single-shot gernade launcher like the CZ 805 G1 (attached to the wepon's holder)! Would do big splash damage per shot but would have slow fire rate due to needing to be reloaded after ever shot. :]

[shell sonnet]

make it block gadgets instead of specials

most gadgets take too long to deploy anyways and often dont help enough
meanwhile all specs but cloak and mediums can get you to safety/give a decent chance to survive (and medium doesnt need it anyways because their melees defend them during a stun)

also helps lights deny defib and rpg

[restive plover]

Stun should lose the movement lock(keep the interaction block though) and just be a full glitch effect.

[fickle charm]

Has anyone used the bamboo goo treehouse strat? I make a platform high up the bamboo and nobody ever sees you its great

[hazy spoke]

its the only competitive melee weapon in the game and that is for a reason. i am no sword expert and never had problems against sword but to say its balanced is also just an assumption without any factial backround. the thing has BIG potential with minor tradeoffs.

[drowsy olive]

Hi

[swift cradle]

The heck? Then it's not a stun gun it's a glitch gun...

[restive plover]

It would be both stronger and less annoying.

It would probably need a rename, but that's real simple.

[shell sonnet]

Fine by me
In that case you only get real problems out in the open where you cant easily get to cover
And even then you might be able to juke some shots

Should be way less frustrating
But keeps the interesting steal stop and cashout joinking

[hasty jewel]

Can you do sword tech on controller?

[leaden iris]

"DETECT,DETERRENT,DEFEND!"

[elfin cliff]

delete lo grav

[drowsy pasture]

Stun gun change idea. Instead of it completely knocking you off the cashout box I think it would be better if while stunned you cashout at half speed

[vale obsidian]

PLS

[lavish arrow]

Getting stunned should wallhack the stunner for duration of stun.

[vale obsidian]

and the stunner should get aimbot of the stunned for the duration of stun.

[static portal]

talk tlak talk

[vale obsidian]

yap yap yap

[covert parcel]

yapport

[pine comet]

Does glitch bomb gadget for lights stop cashvault steals?

[shut bane]

I do not think so

[covert parcel]

no, stun gun does tho - stops interaction

[shut bane]

Taser, goo, charge n slam, winch claw, or straight up killing them are the only ways I know of, ah and breaking the floor underneath them

[fleet brook]

That has better counterplay and usability then could be used for buffs

[pine sentinel]

What would be a good gun for a decent player and on medium?

[pine comet]

Ty

[pine comet]

Ty

[shell sonnet]

Goo?
That was removed

At the very least goo gun's
Not sure about grenade because that comes up qay less often, but i cant imagine it works any differently

[fleet brook]

Famas/pike

[fleet brook]

You have to goo in a way that forces them away from the interaction

[shell sonnet]

So basically, hope they are stealing at max range and that you can somehow fit a goo tower in there

Not sure how else thats supposed to work

Because right now, if you hit a player
The goo will break

It used to be solid until it did, so it blocked steals and bullets
Not it doesnt even do that anymore

[fleet brook]

Throw a goo grenade in the middle of the space between them and the cash outs and pray

[spiral pilot]

So curious what the patch looks like tomorrow

[shell sonnet]

I hope we get an LTM

[vale obsidian]

some ui change, so called "anti cheat improvement", animation fixes, and no balance change cus yes it happen plenty enough time already

[shell sonnet]

Also kinda interested
That would make it a bigger patch
So maybe thats the one they would like to make bigger balabce changes in?
Or would an ltm be so big, that they dont eant to change other stuff alongside it

[fleet brook]

Tbf most of the balance changes either make or break a weapon I'm happy they're trying a period of small to medium level balance changes

Also I want the pike to be at least on the list of mediums best weapons so that light doesn't just get to play the range game for effectively free and you just have to accept that they get to control all the space they want if they're good

LH 1 and snipers range are only kept in check by most of the users being bad

[hallow leaf]

Calling it now, the patch will be a store update with a few "performance" fixes that will make performance worse

[restive plover]

I don't think it's tomorrow, I believe it will be only store update

[soft shale]

Average Ranked experience

[vale obsidian]

you either rolling with the modle or being rolled by models

[soft shale]

Great display of how atrocious that meta is, yeah.

I can't touche that gun anymore tbh. It just feels cheap. Like early S3 LH1.

[restive plover]

That poor flame heavy got removed from existence.

[amber ermine]

embark please don't nerf the model and m26

[restive plover]

M26 is fine, but model needs its damage nerfed.

[vale obsidian]

just fire rate pls

[restive plover]

No lol

[ember wasp]

If you use throwing knives and/or stun gun you are bad at the game sorry but it’s true. You are lazy and bad at the game

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/legia-warszawa-legia-cry-keep-crying-josue-gif-1540441648088792866

[ember wasp]

I don’t really have an issue with m11 but I’m not claiming the throwing knives are good I’m saying they’re lazy

[vale obsidian]

btw have yall seen the ret dot on that thing? lmao

[ember wasp]

It’s only good if you have stuff that compensates recoil for you or you study recoil patterns other than that is really annoying

Yeah but that requires an ounce of skill throwing knives and the stun gun are really just point and click

Instantly lmao

[restive plover]

Embark make functioning sights challenge:

[azure shuttle]

red dot for 93R. It needs it

[sand monolith]

M11 is perfect tbh

[tranquil portal]

i get you bro, i've been playing with defib for a whole ass season and still dont have the level 6 skin

[verbal apex]

How so? I’d argue them being relatively slow projectile makes them a lot more work bc you have to calculate your shots compared to most the guns which are just hitscan

[restive plover]

Neither of them are really issues at all.

[ember wasp]

Because they are point and click if you hit a shot with taser you’re fighting a paraplegic and throwing knives it doesn’t matter if you miss you just keep holding the button down it doesn’t take much brain power to use or be relatively good with them. I’m not saying they’re over powered or unfair I’m claiming they’re lazy and easy to use

[edgy hare]

What do yall think about medium getting a fireman's axe 🪓 the heavy attack can do alot of l dmg to walls not as much as sledgehammer but something similar it woukd be fun I think

[restive plover]

Oh boy a melee option even weaker than dual blades.

[outer fiber]

Yeah if only they had the xp u get from a defib go from 50 to like 120 or at least 100. Wouldn't be so bad then considering u won't really be going past 10 revives per game unless it's WT or your teammate loves dying

Something like the barricade on the other hand is piss easy to level up. Just use that in power shift, place it on the platform then hide somewhere

If they keep destroying it you can easily get about 15-20k xp per game

Managed to level up that thing to lvl 8 within a day

[tranquil portal]

lol

[fleet brook]

Spread change over damage nerf

[fleet brook]

That doesn't change it's burst /burst from range potential instead it just makes it clunkier

[restive plover]

Medium being able face check heavies and disintegrate lights in close quarters is the main issue. Reducing the range won't fix that, just make it more generic.

And also set it up for uselessness when it does get the needed damage nerf.

[fleet brook]

Range is the main issue for me not the burst

Light also has weapons that can melt it in close range even they're DB if you're fighting close

Also the ability to dash around (keep in mind I play console) makes hitting lights less consistent in cqc

[restive plover]

Yes, that's fine for them to have. Both light and heavy should be much better at cqc than medium.

[lament mountain]

the wrestler level of the battlepass has me thinking. they should give heavy a steel chair as a melee. It's a melee that needs to be reloaded (i.e. grabbing a new chair) when you break it. You can tap primary fire to swing for light damage, or hold it to slam down for massive damage. You can hold alt fire to aim it forward, for decent damage as well. A slam, throw, or five swings will all break the chair and require you to grab a new one

[fleet brook]

Yeah I'm just saying it ain't a one sided beat down

But just making medium the really strong gadget class but you have all the worst guns will make them balanced but absolutely miserable.

Same Reason they're running into problems making heavy both fun and competitive without nerfing them

[restive plover]

I never said they should have the worst guns. Just not guns that are good up close, medium should still be very nasty at midrange.

[fleet brook]

So what do you want to do with the model

Because a damage nerf and it's no longer a shotgun just a worse pike/ other mid range weapons

Also it's damage (if the spread changes) will be very inconsistent if they damage nerf it first

[restive plover]

108 damage with a tighter spread. It maintains the ability to lay down burst safely at mid range without being so absurd at short range.

[fleet brook]

I play heavy/light

I hate supporting idiots and when I am on medium I'm using aks/ pike

[fleet brook]

Hmmm fair enough but I think that'd remove alot of its dualing pressure and every gun needs the ability to dual to some extent

My bad

[restive plover]

You still maintain full movement while shooting and stuff intrinsic to burst weapons like jiggle peaking that makes it a lot harder to kill you.

[fleet brook]

I like your idea as an alternative it'd need testing but it doesn't sound like it guts the weapon

You'd still have people complaining about the range

[restive plover]

It would conflict with the idea of shotguns in games essentially being melee weapons.

[fleet brook]

I think that medium has no decent close weapons though even it's melees are bad up close

[restive plover]

It was presumably designed that way on purpose, and should remain as such.

Model and to a lesser extent pike stand out as issues because they break that.

But that's also why it has dematerializer and turret, so if you want you can give up some support to get better at close range combat.

Even though turret really sucks at what it does.

[sand monolith]

M11 isn’t an issue at all

The gun is extremely well designed and executed

[jagged gale]

plsssssssssssssss nerf the medium gaurdion turret

[restive plover]

Guardion

[spring oasis]

Bad players can't think that far ahead

[weary sun]

I dont mind a famas or fcar or akm meta
pike and model are just too easy

[wispy crystal]

PLEASE ADD A TWO WEPON SYSTEM IN THE GAME

[polar trout]

No, every gun doesn't need to be able to duel. Some guns should fit into a support role, it promotes teamwork. Like the cl, it keeps being balanced for use as a solo player, when it and the mgl should both lose to every other weapon in the game in a 1v1, but in a team fight their value should be more than any other gun.

[polar trout]

See the dual deagles (teehee)

[fleet brook]

Then those weapons will just be objectively some of the worst in the games at all times

[polar trout]

Of course

When used by dumbasses and people under like 20k Rs they'll suck

[covert parcel]

famas and pike being direct upgrades to 93r and lh1, even tho it should be backwards

[fleet brook]

And the team fight value of both of those guns isn't enough the counter balance how horrid they were in 1v1s

[polar trout]

But when used by people who actually stick with their teams and play this team based fps correctly, they would be really good.

[polar trout]

That's why I said it should be, not is.

They need rebalancing for a support role

Hell the flamethrower does it well, usually a calm player who knows to not panic will mess up any flamer, but in a team fight there's a lot more shit happening to distract you, allowing the flamer to be a good base of fire (literally) putting out consistent but low DMG with the side effect of psych damage from all the VFX.

[fleet brook]

Light shouldn't just get to win all ranged encounters for free and famas is meant to be a medium ranged burst weapon that requires scoping in and the 93R is a short ranged burst pistol with little recoil they serve two completely different purposes

[covert parcel]

i meant TTK

[fleet brook]

People in this community have a really bad habit of just assuming light should win every gun fight for free

[covert parcel]

mediums versions are faster than the lights versions, which is backwards

[covert parcel]

⏬

[polar trout]

Well the famas doesn't have a lot of recoil either, also has amazing hip, and has the same DMG but with a straight upgrade to mag size, rof and range. The only one of those it logically should have is the range buff.

[covert parcel]

i love it when other weapons are direct upgrades, then placed on the class with more HP

[fleet brook]

Light is always supposed to have first shot entering a fight light shouldn't just be able to run at you and you just have to accept defeat

[covert parcel]

youre not reading what im saying

Famas TTK is faster than 93r

vs every class

[polar trout]

Peak of game design

Yes please (it's one of my fav guns in existence why does it suck so much asssssssssssssss)

[covert parcel]

it is

[shell sonnet]

@dusty arch wasnt that also literally in one of the recent highlight reels?

[polar trout]

Eh I'd be fine without it since I prefer its current sighting system, it needs some sort of actual hard buff and not more soft buffs.

[fleet brook]

No because the big brain thing isn't to buff it it's to nerf another weapon on another class because it has a burst

[wispy crystal]

There are 500k people in this server and 12k active on steam playing the game

[polar trout]

...no? Normally that's sound advice, just to make the 93r viable against the famas would require pretty much removing the famas form the game.

[polar trout]

People joined when the game blew up on launch and just haven't left

[polar trout]

I'm assuming this is satire, right?

[fleet brook]

Yes

[wispy crystal]

Why cant we all agree on double wepons. So a heavy can carry a sledge hammer and a long ranged gun

[polar trout]

No

[fleet brook]

I didn't make it obvious which is on me

[covert parcel]

ruins the flow of TTK

[polar trout]

That way instead of just covering every base yourself like you can in other games you actually have to play with your team, who cover what you don't.

[covert parcel]

every weapon would need to be even slower TTK, meaning uber pea shooters all around on top of what we alr have

[wispy crystal]

dude thats to make the wepons viable

[fleet brook]

I just want secondaries so heavy could have a pistol or a standard secondary pistol for everyone

[polar trout]

You did, I'm just a dumbass who's too used to dumbass takes said in all seriousness in this chat

[wispy crystal]

maybe an akimbo specialisation

[covert parcel]

if you give everyone a two weapons, or a backup "bad" weapon, everyone would get snowballed

theres no chance to come back in midfight when you have a teammate down, theyre not going to reload at all or slow down

[fleet brook]

Giving a standard secondary would be decent although deciding the dps would be difficult

[wispy crystal]

i mean warzone did it and they are just fine

[fleet brook]

It would also make the V9S have a hard time standing out

[covert parcel]

exactly why m1887 is dominating rn, a good medium can kill all players in 1 tube, most players can kill 2

[covert parcel]

warzone is faster movement, not OBJ focused, +1 more person

thats why we dont have secondaries

[wispy crystal]

dont you guys get that boring feeling of the same wepon stuck on your hand with super glue till the match ends

[weak kernel]

I really want some flavor of instant breach on light, something like an m79 that gives you one bad company 2 style quick breach but it has one stock compared to the 3/2 on the charge and bore

[wispy crystal]

i mean heavy can compensate with a sledge hammer plus lewis to cover all ranges

[polar trout]

No

[normal ice]

That's not true. Plenty of games with fast TTKs allow carrying multiple weapons.

But still, @wispy crystal, the game is designed around single weapons, and carrying multiple would require a lot of design tweaks. It may not be your preference, but The Finals is occupying a relatively unique design space by allowing only 1 wep

[covert parcel]

if you dont slow the TTK, everyone who brings 2 weapons will snowball every fight meaning noone stops to reload or slowdown

this game only has 3 players per team

[wispy crystal]

if they made that change i can finally rock the dual katanas as my secondary

[polar trout]

And thus, breach light with three gadgets was born

[weak kernel]

a golden age

[covert parcel]

gun weapon
&
melee weapon?

[dusty arch]

no that was a different one (skyway stadium)
We all saw that one xD

[wispy crystal]

yeah

[dusty arch]

Just embark dev team enjoying their OP weapons being abused and laughing with it

[shell sonnet]

Srry, i didnt read the whole thing

I thought this was about model 1v3'ing, which the clip had

[normal ice]

Well, you're right, I guess they'd have to make the weapons weaker to avoid 1 person teamkilling everyone without reloading lol