💣┇weapons-gadgets

[fleet brook]

I can kill a heavy without reloading

[digital saddle]

I do, too. but it is not even necessary to change it back. just change one thing: give the Light shotgun the same one bullet reload as the Medium model. it will not one shot, but it will be viable to challenge.

so did I. since night one. level 6.

[fleet brook]

That would be an okay consolation

But I was okay with them nerfing shotgun even tho it was my favorite weapon because light wasn't supposed to one shot or just burst people to death instantly

Then they buff several weapons to near insta kill or insta kill

[digital saddle]

I think so, too. Light shotty should not be one shot, but it is just not viable like this.

throwing knives now only one-shot equals with a delayed shot which can be evaded especially by its equals.

[somber python]

I actually love using light shotty it's one of my go to weapons

Defo needs a buff but it certainly isn't bad

[digital saddle]

I do, too. feels so nice. but it is in a bad place.

"Two Smokin' Barrels" I get it now

[shadow onyx]

hitbox is so busted on hammer a guy hit me while he was facing the opposite direction

[shadow onyx]

lock stock

[slow robin]

is emote cancel patched

[crystal garnet]

Read the patch notes from today

[slow robin]

its patched for me rn

[hallow current]

I got my hopes up for the light class getting a bow & arrow for season 3

[steel umbra]

what guns classify as handuns

[digital saddle]

I like it, I like it

[pseudo lintel]

I was trying to find some funny combos

[somber python]

Oh I gotta try that sometime, I only really combo melee with the sword

[near pumice]

Really smooth

[dawn flume]

El Madrid siempre gana

[pseudo lintel]

combo on a M makes the the db shots more forgiving

[arctic fog]

So clean

[junior basin]

Question: how fast is a reverse combo where you melee first?

[fast aspen]

can we please make dagger more viable?
now with the latest throwing knife buff it's so difficult to get a kill.. i can't fight back
and everyone and their mum is playing throwing knife currently..

i keep getting 1 shotted at a light by 189 damage throwing knife..
but the RPG is 'too OP'

i'm def not saying it's not OP.
but throwing knifes are basically M11 without reload atm ..

[forest ocean]

nothing matches UZI ttk

[fast aspen]

pretty sure that instant kill is the best TTK 😂

[forest ocean]

knives are not insta

[near birch]

why are people able to shoot through my riot shield

[forest ocean]

might be hitting legs

I have not experienced issues with hit reg of course, your ping might impact that.

[fast aspen]

never used throwing knives..
highest kills in the lobby..

[stray mica]

throwing knives are a blessing

[digital saddle]

vs the good players of your server?

[fast aspen]

i mean , they def weren't bad as you can see by the 11 deaths.
but also, i'm not the best player in the world 😛

[mellow fiber]

it would be so cool if light and medium had an ability like heavy where they pull out a certain very powerful gun for just 1 bullet worth of shot with a cooldown

it'd be so cool if medium pulled out some huge sniper for like 50% dmg or something

and went on a cooldown similar to the rpg

[digital saddle]

no, no. congrats to the game! I just wish to point out that vs the good players of your server throwing knives still are less viable than people now seem to think. they are kept in check by their own limitations, e.g. distance.

[mellow fiber]

the double throw makes that part easier, they fix their distance problem really easily by adapting with a bursted throw
what I mean basically is that anyone adapted enough with those knives are going to be the biggest annoyance in the lobby

[digital saddle]

I do not disagree. this is their skill ceiling. which not everyone gets to. so I would wager there are other inconveniences which are the issue. throwing knives are in a fair enough state.

[fast aspen]

so in your eyes a 'fair enough state' means that it's okay for 75% of the player base to run them currently?
every 'sword dash' user has now turned into a 'throwing knife dash' user, and this is not even remotely sus to you ?

[fleet brook]

RPG is supposed to be building destruction but if it had to happen

Medium should get golden gun

Light elephant slug

[sand monolith]

I don’t think we need more gigantic damage sources in the game especially not on gadgets

[fleet brook]

This games ttk feels shorter since beta which is wrong but for some reason everything just feels like a laser that melts you or burst damage

[sand monolith]

Yes there shouldn’t be more

[fleet brook]

Eh I just feel like a lot of the old strategy of this game that relied on gadgets got nerfed and now it's just whomever beams better

And I'm tired of TKs already Jesus id rather have sniper lights

[digital saddle]

not in my lobbies ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[broken coral]

what's ur highest kills ever?

[azure mortar]

could we get a progress bar for the vanish bomb duration at some point?

just a quality of life thing

[hollow musk]

Well im on console so im not privileged

[daring jay]

my friend and i cant join each others game and its keeps saying failed to join see options we click it and it doesnt take us anywhere?

[iron knot]

When will turret be nerfed

[forest ocean]

the turret is trash

[icy rivet]

its a nightmare for lights it should be little less accurate and slow.

[forest ocean]

its easy to avoid for lights

[icy rivet]

not in the powershift

[forest ocean]

in powershift it can be shoot from distance

[forest ocean]

It has no range, can't shoot 360, and deals effectively no damage if there is a healer, and only very little without.

turret is the worst specialty next to grapling hook

[soft juniper]

Why are all the fun weapons on classes the most garbage

[fast aspen]

Can't recall, i don't care enough to keep tabs 😂

[misty axle]

A turret kills a Light in 3.75s
Make of that what you will.

[dire dragon]

its more annoying than deadly

[fleet brook]

3X the usual ttk

[fleet brook]

looks at old stun gun alot of things in this game are more annoying then deadly

[misty axle]

More, if the person never misses body shots.
But it's also automated damage on top of the person with the gun. And information on your position as well.

[fleet brook]

It's still worse than heal beam and it's usually a trash thing for a defensive setup unless it's a tight site but all you have to do then is just blow up 1-2 walls

Also glitch grenades

[misty axle]

Heal is 50/s and takes up your hands - can't shoot and heal.

[fleet brook]

Are you arguing turret is better than heal? Or that heal isn't that good

Because you're wrong resetting pressure

Increasing the ttk time on someone

And the ability to do a poke fight and always win will always be superior

[misty axle]

That being said, the absurd uptime for your team is insane since every moment is either healing yourselves or doing damage.

[misty axle]

I'm just starting facts - but turret is probably Medium's worst specialization.

[fleet brook]

Also turret gets screwed when you opinion site

[misty axle]

From a ranked perspective, at least.

[fleet brook]

Which is why I like playing destruction and fair

Turret isn't op there's clear counterplay to it and if you just want to no brain run into a site run glitch grenades

If a turret single handedly kills you you're bad

If a turret + someone else shooting you kills you that's the point of the turret

[misty axle]

Turret is just annoying in those times where you can't tell you're getting shot or when you're low and it instantly caps you through a crack.

Not to mention the anxiety I feel just taking a few ticks because it's like I got sonar pinged.

[fleet brook]

Yeah when it just randomly ticks you from somewhere you can't see that's annoying

[misty axle]

Or when you're in a team fight and don't realize you've been taking 40dps for the last 3 seconds

(Which is a skill issue haha)

[iron knot]

Fax its only annoying in power shift thats my only complaint on turret tbh

Ai tracking with that type of range is devious

[royal pier]

I wish there was more reason to use the Motion Sensor. They can be nice for setting up bank shots with the MGL32, but if it's between the Sensor or C4/Mines, the choice is obvious.

Maybe a mild slow effect? That would be something that makes me at least consider them as an option.

[compact furnace]

there's a lot of items that get barely used, i never see the thermal cam

[shut echo]

Can lh1 get a buff?

[mellow lodge]

why do you think lights best weapon needs a buff?

[shut echo]

Because heavies exist

[digital saddle]

just like the aps needed debuffing, the turret does. they just hesitate since it is a specialisation.

[shut echo]

Turrets are annoying I agree.

[mellow lodge]

good tho? hell nah lol

[shut echo]

But that's why I always have a glitch nade in my back pocket.

[digital saddle]

individually? no. exploited by groups? quite.

[swift cradle]

Turrets are mid

[restive plover]

Even then you can just take the fight outside of the room they've fortified.

[primal atlas]

model 1887 shreds

[digital saddle]

if the POI is situated in there?

[shut echo]

My final request is a better skin for lh1 other than the lego one

[restive plover]

Drop the cashbox. Or remove the room entirely. You can also make them totally useless with a bit of goo.

[digital saddle]

well, even in this game there is a floor which is quite stable... & glitching 3 turrets in 3 different locations with two nades? not too shabby. do you do this yourself?

[restive plover]

Teammates and canisters:

[fickle radish]

Red canisters are the safe solution for everything

[fleet brook]

Turrets suck

[shut bane]

ok so get this, really heavy anti materiel rifle

[digital saddle]

...the bliss out of knifey lights 🔪

[fleet brook]

Glitch grenade then run in

[worn flicker]

Sure are a lot of lights running t-knives these days. Are they that more fun/powerful than other weapons?

[fast aspen]

too bad that destroying the sentry is the only thing the knife can do right now ..

these throwing knifes are getting seriously annoying.

[near pumice]

Don’t click ! #1246571656672186419

[crystal garnet]

Honestly gonna start reporting throwing nice mains for exploiting. such bullshit no skill siht

[hardy dust]

?

[agile umbra]

Hey guys, what is considered Marksman Rifles and Handguns? (Masters stage 4 mission 1)

Played a game on medium, famas and fkar didn't get me any points into that

[crystal garnet]

its because those arent marksmen weapons

[agile umbra]

Then what are?

[crystal garnet]

sniper or LH1

[restive plover]

Sr 84, lh1, v9s and 93r.

[shy spire]

hola

[digital saddle]

it isn't the knife 😸

[sudden panther]

throwing knives are op af nerf that shit genuinely dog shit ass players

[honest condor]

throwing knives are not op I heard, it needs a buff

[fleet brook]

Truly white name takes also WTF IS THAT PFP

[honest condor]

Its my finals outfit

they adding it for season 3

[grand solstice]

couldnt agree more literally just checked the disc for this reason played 2 games full of people abusing them and was like welp this games currently unplayable... hopefully theyre fixed soon

[icy sparrow]

@ornate siren I fixed the comment now it’s a gadget with little boost of health with cool-down,at least u have to be accurate and not spam a healing beam and it’s long range too

[shadow onyx]

I get it's not ideal, but blue barrel if you're not light

[shadow onyx]

They should make throwing good, but really hard to hit, so basically slightly more damage, but back to the old velocity and fire rate

hammer hitbox?????

he was literally 6 feet social distancing and facing the complete opposite direction

[restive plover]

Game doesn't properly show people turning, which is why he seems to snap onto your statue after.

[mellow lodge]

more damage than rn wouldn't do anything even if the fire rate ad velocity were reverted

[shadow onyx]

imo throwing knives are too easy to use now. I liked the old aiming better. Now just anybody can use them well 😂

[vague sorrel]

OMG I HATE THESE DEVS SO MUCH. HOW CAN YOU CRAFT SUCH A BEUTIFUL GAME WITH SUCH AMAZING PHYSICS, YET ACT LIKE YOU'RE THE INDIE TEAM FOR A HORROR GAME WORKING ON A COMPETITIVE SHOOTER. ITS LIKE THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT BALENCING IS. THE FACT THAT THEY EVEN SAY THE HAVE A "BALLENCING TEAM" IS A JOKE, AND I ASSUME IT LOOKS LIKE A BUNCH OF FREE LOADERS CHILLING IN A ROOM EATING DONUTS TOGETHER, DESIDING WHAT GUN THEY SHOULD MAKE UNUSABLE/OVERPOWERED. I THINK THAT EVERYONE CAN AGREE THAT THE THROWING KNIVES ARE OP, BUT CAN WE JUST REALLY CONSIDER HOW STUPID OF A DECISION IT WAS TO BUFF THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?? I DON'T THINK ONE PERSON WAS COMPLAINING ABOU THEM, INFACT OTTR POSTED A VIDEO SHOWING HOW BROCKEN THE WERE BEFORE THE UPDATE EVEN HAPPEND. ITS LIKE THEY JUST THOUGNT THEY LOOKED COOL SO THEY BUFFED IT. THE REAL KICKER THOUGH IS HOW THEY DEAL WITH "OVERPOWERD GUNS" RATHER THEN CONSIDERING ALL THE GUNS BALENCING, THEY JUST NUKE THE ONE GUN THAT SEEMS OVERPOWERD PER UPDATE. ITS LIKE EVERY UPDATE YOU GOTTA PRAY TO ALLA THAT YOUR LOADOUT AINT ABOUT TO BE DISINERGRATED. CUZTIMAIZTION BRINGS ADAPTATION SURE, BUT IT ALSO BRINGS SPECALIAZTION, ALLOWING FOR PLAYERS TO FIND A PLAY STYLE THAT FITS THEM, SO BY NUKING THERE FAVORITE GUN, YOU'RE BASICALLY GIVING THOUGHS PLAYERS THE MIDDLE FINGER AND FORCING THEM TO FINA A NEW WAY TO PLAY. EITHER WAY IF I WERE TO ACT LIKE THE DEVS NEXT UPDATE MAC 10 IS GETTING A RANGE BUFF THAT MAKES IT INTO A SNIPER WITH NO RECOILS, AND CHINA LAKE DOES 150 DMG NOW BECAUSE WHY THE HELL NOT.

[icy rivet]

a whole essay how you wrote that much 😱

[steel glacier]

man really wrote balencing

[vague sorrel]

im just mad. 😠

[errant current]

Hot sauce r u good bruh

What prompted you to write that lol

[vague sorrel]

a very bad game of cash out, with once throwing knife player on orange team.

also ontop of all the other games where i get insta killed by some light behind me.

ALSO, HOW COME THE DEVS CAN DO "HOTFIXES" FOR BUGS BUT NOT BALENCING. I FEEL IT WOULDN'T BE THAT HARD TO REVERT THE CHANES OF THE THROWING KNIFES.

[cobalt crow]

Rips on game devs, but cant spell for shit... 🤔

[proud parcel]

Im genuinely nothing but impressed at how utterly fucking incompetent Embark is.

[hardy dust]

Tk are balanced

They're good for pubstomping tho so it makes sense lots of people get mad at em

[south ridge]

I stopped reading at "BALENCING"

[vague sorrel]

thinking that someone is smart for spelling is like thinking that a rat who memorized a route in one specific maze is smart. in a real life scenario that rat would never encounter a maze like that, and in a real life scenario i could use autocorrect if i had for any respect for the person i was talking to, but in this situation I'm speaking to a bunch of couch potatoes.

here lemme go ahead a completely dismember you argument by showing how easy it is to use autocorrect!...
"a very bad game of cash out, with once throwing knife players on the orange team.
also on top of all the other games where i get instant killed by some light behind me.
ALSO, HOW COME THE DEVS CAN DO "HOTFIXES" FOR BUGS BUT NOT BALANCING. I FEEL IT WOULDN'T BE THAT HARD TO REVERT THE CHANGES OF THE THROWING KNIFES."
bitte shuene!! <-- think i got this wrong, which is a hellful sin to you guys so lemme point it out before you guys roast me on it

[cobalt crow]

Ya lost me on grammar. Might I recommend Grammarly too.

[vague sorrel]

alright lemme go ahead and fix that too, but i hop you realise you're on discord

[restive plover]

What're you hopping for?

[vague sorrel]

thats like complaing about when someone uses Thx in text. like its supposed ot be typed quickly

[sand monolith]

He just landed off of a jump pad and needs to preserve his momentum

[vague sorrel]

spawns being fixed

do you type with your third leg? whats taking you so long?

XD

season 3 finna come out before this guys argument

[cobalt crow]

Hi

[vague sorrel]

lol

[cobalt crow]

Had to check my spelling and grammar, sorry.

I really don't care about your spelling or grammar. I am making a point that you are complaining to another level about a video game, yet call everyone a couch potatoes... The irony.

So yes, I will make fun of your spelling and grammar because it's as pointless as your complaints.

[vague sorrel]

this is litterly the complaint section for the gadjects

and weapons. sure the devs might not read it. but its still here, and other may also find it and agree. then that will spread and maybe, possible, the devs will see it.

[cobalt crow]

There is a way to "complain". Spewing incomprehensible letters isn't the way.

[vague sorrel]

but it is? yes it deffinently is unprofessional, but if you can't read that. thats a you problem

[cobalt crow]

I could also the use these replies to finally get lvl 2. 🥳

So keep it up, I'll be right here.

[vague sorrel]

what lvl 2 reading level?

[cobalt crow]

https://tenor.com/view/60fps-knee-slapper-spongebob-milkcord-gif-27449345

[vague sorrel]

bro really think im bout to click on a virus lol

[cobalt crow]

You're too funny!

[vague sorrel]

danke shuene

[cobalt crow]

Man, the IQ to think that is a virus. It says it all.

[vague sorrel]

well i clicked on a thing earlier and im pretty sure it was a virus so i aint taking no chances no more

i don't care what the link says, could have more hidden stuff within

[cobalt crow]

Are you sure you are not the virus?

Yay! I got leveled up. Thanks for the chat! Bye now!

[vague sorrel]

if im a virus you're a biological weapon to my braincells

no problem 🙂

[uneven aurora]

Joined the discord specifically to wait for the notification that the game has been updated to rebalance the ridiculous damage buff the stinking throwing knives have. maybe work on the combat knife with its 320 damage backstab too while they are at it(your game ain't CoD). I got back into playing The Finals just before the update went into play, and since then I have experienced the playerbase(at least in QP) slowly finding the meta, and then abusing it so hard, my kills/deaths went from 10-15/7-10 to 1-5/10-15.
It is currently NOT FUN, to play the GAME. Ergo, it's not currently worth my time, or my money. I WAS thinking of buying the Battlepass before the meta set in. I hope the devs have been paying attention to how this bad balance patch has effected it's playerbase and it's game as a whole.

[crude leaf]

Brodi got clipped by throwing knives 100%

[primal cloak]

my biggest annoyance with lights is how fast they are, I feel like I have to have my horizontal speed at 500% just to keep up with them...sadly this isn't team fortress 2 where I can just MMPH and burn them down as a pyro

I just want a new gun for medium I don't like the feel of any of the ones it has currently

[sinful dagger]

Dagger exists because it's not cod lil bro. Throwing knives may be slightly overturned but rather that than lewis gun.

Just because people are abusing the meta doesn't mean your performance should change so drastically. Some things are OP but it's also partly a skill issue

[crude leaf]

You have a glitch gadget technically, use it

[crude leaf]

And with glitch barrels around now, it's pretty easy to abstract a lights movement options besides running

[primal cloak]

glitch mine problem with mines and thats just a inherent part of their function is you gotta trick people to step on them, oh so that's what the blue lightning crate I saw today was

[crude leaf]

This guy gets it

[crude leaf]

Yessir

Also, there's also a tech you can do with glitchmines that allow you to activate it up close instantly

[sinful dagger]

Game is very balanced honestly but some things have been overturned so long we are frustrated

[uneven aurora]

yeah im not the best at the game. sure. but ive been having fun untill now despite that. running into lobbies with only lights running cloaking and throwing knifes and daggers is not fun, for anyone who just wants to jump in and play a few rounds.

[sinful dagger]

Dagger can easily be countered but throwing knives after the update are obnoxious but balanced against other classes. Two shotting lights though is just not it.

[crude leaf]

Honestly, I think that throwing knives js needs a fire rate nerf

[primal cloak]

I havent played finals in a while few months at least :o, as much as I whine and complain about how this game doesn't feel like its made by the same people behind bad company 2 I also don't have the same amount of playtime in this game, damn I only had 130 hours in Bad Company 2 I thought I had more for some reason. Well i'm rapidly catching up to my BC2 playtime sitting at 80 hours in this game rn

[sinful dagger]

Agreed, a small teeny weeny nerf is perfect

[uneven aurora]

how do you counter the dagger?

[crude leaf]

My man

[sinful dagger]

Dash or invis players?

[primal cloak]

oh I gotta lock into that 😮 that's interesting

[crude leaf]

I would type a whole essay about how to counter the dagger but I ain't typin allat

In other words, gain a good distance from anyone using melee weapons in general and use your gadgets to outsmart or outplay your opponent

[uneven aurora]

all the good melee players will only be seen when they are up in your face, and since light is the melee prominent size, you cant really outrun them backpedalling

[sinful dagger]

Audio is prob the best counter to melee, sometimes I hear someone zip lining up and I beam them when their fully invisible. Cloak is loud on top of that.

[crude leaf]

Just toss the mine and do a quick melee instantly to trigger it

It's best if you do it with the Glitchtrap compared to the other mines because you will be taking a huge chunk of damage from you

I also find this tech to work specifically if you're standing still and do it or sliding and performing the tech

[crude leaf]

What class do you play?

I can help you out with some very specific tips based on what you play

[sinful dagger]

Dash dagger can be countered by looking at the opponent as they dash from the front of you to behind you

Dash is fast but moving your mouse is faster

[uneven aurora]

i think, that if the odds to see a lobby with most or all of a particular build is getting this high, then the problem isnt my skill, but a build being unbalanced. that is my issue.

[frigid merlin]

If you see the light, just shot them and back up, if they are to close for that try to vault and then jump off of the item you vaulted on to get them while they are vaulting. This gives you a easy chance to shoot and kill them or you could just run during that time too

I realized I replied to the wrong text, sorry.

[uneven aurora]

when a whole lobby consists of shimmering glitch sounds all coming for you, that isnt really doable

[frigid merlin]

Play heavy and RPG them

[primal cloak]

damn I shot this dude and he didnt recoil 😒

[pale mulch]

NERF THE TURRET

[fleet brook]

@proud parcel the reply emotes are wild

[fleet brook]

"Move your mouse" is easy to say when you're not set with the stick move speed

[pearl jungle]

you still haven’t learned how to spell balancing??

[sinful dagger]

True, nothing you can really do there, although cross play can be turned off. Then it should work the same way, a bit harder to perform though.

[jovial yarrow]

You're trading heals or dematerializer which is stupid good for an immobile turret used for a distraction. It's annoying but def not in need of nerf

[primal cloak]

replied to the wrong person but yeah I can see that, I also find the turret extremely annoying

[barren crow]

reading this chat is so funny

[fickle radish]

its annoying but easy to deal with. Only on MMM all with turrets can be really annoying, but the lack of heals/utility makes them useless anyway

tbh i should reduce just a bit the hp of the turret or maybe add like a weak spot

[median anvil]

stuck at "Running Install script()" anyone knows how to fix it?

[heady yoke]

Turrets are annoying and that’s it no changes are needed imo

[modern crane]

My soul is screaming rn
Do something about knifes
189 to the head is not normal

[sand monolith]

They do 94 to the head

They also have the same ttk as other light weapons

And a far longer ttk than the lh1

[icy rivet]

I'm not sick of daggers and knife lights

[fleet brook]

This is what happens when light is good or has a really good gun everyone complains

But when they nerf light to get rid of really good weapons this server becomes the lights therapy circle by how much people cry about lights power

[sand monolith]

The real issue with knives is that they are frustrating to be hit by because of a lack of feedback. Not really a balance issue

[pallid blade]

ttk isn't all that matters in a weapon...not to mention it depends on the target and the distance, specially for throwing knives which is a projectile, so at what range is the ttk the same as the other weapons?

also don't understand the "far longer" on the lh1, we talking only headshots?

[digital saddle]

well put.

[fleet brook]

So about that 45 second CD

"just go RPG" what do you mean it has one of the longest cool downs in the game

What do you mean the cool down is literally longer than a team wipe respawn timer so that light is definitely gonna be back to annoy you

What do you mean you don't enjoy only having 2 equipment slots because one class is really annoying to play against when they get good weapons

I don't get PUB players who complain about the rpg alot

It's annoying in terminal / was

And ranked

But you have double your respawn timer to run it back with no RPG heavy

And that's if the heavy is using it for only you

[pallid blade]

you're not suggesting the RPG isn't strong are you?

[frigid merlin]

They should give it 2 charges, but half DMG so that it's used more for destruction than killing

[crude leaf]

I swear, yall are taking away the main point of an RPG 😭

[crude leaf]

Battlefield 2042 has sum like that

[pallid blade]

yes, and even then I'm not convinced it would be replaced by anything honestly

[fleet brook]

I advocate for it to be more destruction based and lower the CD and damage

[crude leaf]

Would it be bad if Embark js looked at Battlefield 2042 and js took some of their gadgets an weapons?

[crude leaf]

I mean technically they're ex-battlefield employees so would it really be stealing?

[fleet brook]

No but I'm saying whenever there's a lobby full of annoying lights "just run rpg" isn't gonna do anything but get you rinsed with a relief every death or 45 seconds

[pallid blade]

considering they can do more interesting stuff yes xd

[pallid blade]

the thing is a heavy is much scarier to a light than vice versa...

[crude leaf]

I was playing Battlefield 2042 to check out the new "Terminal Attack" gamemode and I forgot about all the different gadgets there are to choose from

[fleet brook]

Yes but

There advice was "just run rpg" and a sniper light is very annoying to me or a light that plays range

If there is a lobby full of good lights abusing/using a meta weapon you will be getting cooked even if you run rpg

[pallid blade]

well it depends on your loadout, I'd put snipers more in the annoying category if you're a heavy, and only really in like, power shift, obviously the rpg doesn't solve everything but it's a powerful tool that often feels unfair

[dim onyx]

its always funny to see what light mains say as cope

[pallid blade]

is that meant for me? lmao

[narrow harbor]

Just got 35 kills with flamethrower in one match, im so proud of myself

[dim onyx]

do u main light ?

[fleet brook]

Better advice would be play in tight spaces

Don't play in open spaces with long sight lines

Go building to building

Mesh sheild

Play mega close to your team and ask mediums to run heal beam

Or guardian turret for site

Flame thrower but that's less effective at range again

My problem is that it's just bad advice

[pallid blade]

how would you know who mains light here?

[crude leaf]

Barricades are goated against lights especially since you can't glitch out the cover

If anything, a good light would most likely run glitch grenades to rid of your shield options such as dome and mesh

[dim onyx]

light player spotted

[fleet brook]

This as well I forgot

[pallid blade]

got to diamond with heavy, womp womp

[dim onyx]

and ur still ass somehow womp

[fleet brook]

But @pallid blade I listed my problem here I just didn't like "just run rpg" because it's bad advice that won't help like 80% of the time

[narrow harbor]

People gotta just play to their strengths, let a kill greedy light chase u then bop them when they come thru the door

[pallid blade]

hail merry statement that means nothing coming from you, what a comeback

[dim onyx]

keep wearing ur heart on ur sleeve it fits u lmao

[fleet brook]

Ladies Ladies your both good at the game

[dim onyx]

nah i think u meant goated 😎

[narrow harbor]

Not as good as me with my 35 kills

[pallid blade]

sure I understand

[narrow harbor]

Tell me im good… tell me im good…

[fleet brook]

35 kills is goated I'll give you that

[pallid blade]

you're good

[narrow harbor]

🎣

[dim onyx]

can we all agree tho that sum needs to be done ab light as a whole

[pallid blade]

make it ranked viable? 🤔

[narrow harbor]

Ranked is H and M meta tho

[crude leaf]

If you're having trouble spotting lights, and let's just say your teammates are bad with coms

You can most definitely run motion sensor

I swear people forget about this gadget yet it's so goated

[dim onyx]

i jist dont want them to balance the game around the top 5% of players like ow

also heavy sledge is insane with the new multi hit swings

[pallid blade]

from gold to diamond when I was playing, you'd barely see lights, and that was a good thing since the team with a light was far more likely to lose facing the meta comps, it's not just 5%

in an environment where there's no comms, lights do better ofc, but most of the timing it's by punishing bad positioning

[crude leaf]

Light is supposed be an "assassin" type of class so its really their fault

[pallid blade]

turns out it doesn't work if the team is playing together, specially when as a light you want to be slightly away from your team so you can flank

just different playstyles, and people just dislike playing against it

[crude leaf]

I've gotten shit on Xbox going 25 an 8 on QC with the Double Barrel Shotgun like a week ago

An that was cuz I lost even tho I didn't really mind if we won or not

[pallid blade]

well, when I play anything besides ranked I also don't care about winning that much, just having fun or trying things

[fickle radish]

turns out that light playing as a flanker is useless. Its a bad idea and a bad design, a flanker class on the finals doesent work

it works out if the team is really good or the light player is really good, but at the end of the day picking light if you want to win is still the worst option

[crude leaf]

"Smoketrap" - Light's exclusive mine

[pallid blade]

don't wanna be that guy, but that would be the worst trap in the game XD

hopefully we get nice stuff for everyone next season

[crude leaf]

50 dmg on hit with sum cover

Paired up with thermal vision and you got a zone covered to your favor

[tropic compass]

why is it that little can throw infinite knives but mediums can heal beam infinite smh

[pallid blade]

I mean, if it's not the only new gadget sure xd

[near pumice]

Please embark !! #1243918013615570974

[finite jungle]

That would be sick!

[near pumice]

Comment on the channel! Then embark will see it

[hoary coral]

If the next season will be based in Japan, then I would love to see type 100 come as a weapon in the game

[dusty tide]

Weapon idea: Goo Mine

When triggered, it deploys 4 goo balls in a 2x2 grid (or it could be a vertical structure like a pillar) where the mine was, trapping contestants or blocking off entry ways if placed on a wall or in a doorway

[obsidian nexus]

throwing knives buff was too much

thanks for coming to my ted talk

the velocity and damage was overkill, the rest of the buff was fine <3

[small cave]

Throwing knives are the most busted weapon in the history of any game 😂

[dim onyx]

embark needs 2 do sum ab solo experience, its genuinely so hard to compete without a stack backing ypu up. ur completely right ab lights in that kind of environment thriving. also does rank affect ypur sbmm??? i really want to figure out how the finals determines your 'skill' in all the other playlists

[sand monolith]

They have the same ttk as the other light weapons. They just feel annoying to be hit by. But they’re actually fine

[digital saddle]

throwing knives are not the issue.

[small cave]

You can’t 4 tap a heavy with any other light weapon

[dim onyx]

the fun for me comes from the destructable environment the dynamic gadgets and weapons, and the sandbox that was more prevalent in beta/early season 1. nukes, invis and meads thermal have all been gutted, some changes better than others

[digital saddle]

titanfall 2, car.

[dim onyx]

sniper, sword and dagger stab

[small cave]

They are extremely broken but they they are fun I guess

[sand monolith]

Shots to kill is a bad measurement of how good a weapon is. Sniper kills heavy in 2 shots that doesn’t mean it’s better

The actual time it takes to kill the heavy is no different than other light weapons

[small cave]

It’s extremely broken way to easy to use way to quick to kill

[sand monolith]

And can end up being a lot worse. Given how much of a time loss you get if you miss one throwing knife compared to 1 bullet in an smg

[dim onyx]

homies never seen the tracking pistol from titanfall 2

[digital saddle]

*smart pistol

[sand monolith]

Can we get a smart pistol for light and a smart rpg for heavy

[small cave]

Tf is titanfall 2

[digital saddle]

flashbacks

[dim onyx]

🤓

alr opinion invalid

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/titanfall-execution-legion-titanfall2-gif-25927596

[small cave]

Sorry did I hurt the emo kids feelings

[sand monolith]

Peak ass game

[dim onyx]

bro doesnt know a good game

[small cave]

Sounds really cool! 😂😂

[sand monolith]

No bro no one cares

[small cave]

Fr no one cares about your game that no one has ever played under 45

[sand monolith]

True I think

[small cave]

Go to ur emofall 2 discord

[fickle radish]

i dont think that betas were more dynamic. I'm not even saying that now is better, but nothing changed much on that aspect

[dim onyx]

id love to know what games u find enjoyable

[sand monolith]

Maybe I will… 😔 🤘

[dim onyx]

maybe its the balancing?? irdk what it is that feels different

[small cave]

Take a wild guess, where are you rn buddy ? 😂😂😂

[sand monolith]

The betas probably felt more dynamic because you were less used to the gamemode and it felt less predictable because of that

[digital saddle]

titanfall, to this day, shows a tightknit community. not balanced but still payable even post ddoss. in europe queue times at night are still quicker than in THE FINALS...

[obsidian nexus]

Im just gonna abuse TK until they revert the velocity and damage buff

[dim onyx]

pour 1 out for tf2

[sand monolith]

theyre not really busted at all. the ttk is the same as other light weapons

[digital saddle]

by "titanfall" I wish to be understood "titanfall 2".

[obsidian nexus]

INFINITE AMMO BTW

[dim onyx]

tbh i think new season will really help with the staleness i feel rn. i have all the contracts and vrs and max acc lvl and rn it feels like theres no reason to play than to jist play

[digital saddle]

but even titanfall 1 ist still played.

[fickle radish]

There is less broken stuff now. Betas were not balanced but broken stuff was fun cause we did not had time to realize that it was broken and unfun. Like nukes for example.

[sand monolith]

infinite ammo at the expense of being extremely punishing to miss and unusable spread in air. i think thats a fine trade off

[dim onyx]

all my homies hate apex

[fickle radish]

also, season 2 and rankeds changed a lot when came came out

[sand monolith]

like yeah throwing knives are strong when used properly but there are a ton of downsides. unlike the lh1

[dim onyx]

idk whats more fun experience the broken insanity game to game or fcar flamethrowr lewi comp

[obsidian nexus]

they are not hard to miss anymore, and they are now usable mid air. so idk what ur on about

[sand monolith]

the spread in air is insane

[fickle radish]

killing a team with a barrel wasnt fun, light shredding everybody with the stupid pistol wasnt fun

[sand monolith]

also, i didnt say they're hard to hit shots with. but neither is an smg. the throwing knives are just more punishing to miss

[fickle radish]

current meta is decent, its really hard to add variety on games with competitives modes

[sand monolith]

there are very relevant trade offs in place with the throwing knives

[fickle radish]

like look at fcar, only way to add another viable weapon to medium was nerfing it until it became similar to akm

[sand monolith]

yes they need to stop adding regular ass guns

[digital saddle]

exactly

[dim onyx]

thats the thing tho those things still exist in the game just on dif weapons. light can still shred if anything faster than before, fcar still on top rpg is the thing everyone uses to hurl explosives, basically war never changes

[digital saddle]

look at us chattering on this here dead discord server

[dim onyx]

omw to be a micro niche celebrity in the finals

[digital saddle]

indeed

[fickle radish]

fcar is not on top anymore. Is slightly better but akm now is really viable. Light can still shred but nothing compared to what it was before, plus is an useless class anyway and gets melted by literally everything lol. Also comparing rpg to nukes is not the best comparison lol. I think that rpg needs a little dmg nerf or maybe rework, but its way better than before when it could onetap a light every single time

[dim onyx]

ive been saying this but the game needs more content so they dont mess up the stuff thats already here. i feel lile alot of issues with maps and weapons wouldnt be as prevalant if there was more to use or places to do it in. or maybe more party based game modes or more game modes i general. idk the point being that dont fix it if it aint broke and give uss more stuff to use. especially heavy and medium

[fickle radish]

I think that adding more content risks to mess up way more all the stuff that its already there. Its batter to balance first the stuff that we already have rather than adding more stuff to the equation (talking about guns, tools, specs ecc).
This is also why they are adding stuff only on new season. Lets see what they are adding on S3

[digital saddle]

but what about the highlight tapes post season?

[dim onyx]

it depends, does the new stuff add to the gameplay of the finals and fulfill something that another gun didn't? im afraid that theyd add new stuff and it does what another gun does just slightly better

[digital saddle]

baretta mains left the chat

[fickle radish]

we are not missing so much stuff atm. I mean, if i think about something new that i would like to see i cant think about anything. Maybe something like lh1 on mediums but idk

also is the bad thing on games like this one. I mean, guns are not really special

[dim onyx]

its not that the games missing anthing, its core and foundation are the steongest ive seen from a recent release in a long time. my thing is like their is no endgame when u get to it, no new ways to play or experiment, just waiting for the new season

[fickle radish]

yep

[rocky seal]

Ok riot shield kinda funny

though Im not sure what my gadget setup should be for it. Right now im on zipline, defib, pyro grenade

[radiant vapor]

pls change goo gun the current state of this thing is just a self troll

when i shoot a player with it to stick them, they can just run out the back and the goo stays stuck in the air blocking me from dealing any damage or hunting them down
this makes basically all combat applications of this useless and the only thing left to do is build a bunker (witch is terribly boring)

i understand that the old goo/player interaction was not good since it was possible to permanently trap someone

my suggestion would be to:

• at least have the goo not stay floating in the air
• but best make the goo apply a slow effect and not create a rigid foam if it hits a player. the slow could be indicated by a status effect "gooed" (like burning/EMPed) to have a visual indicator that the slow is applied.

this would mean that:

• It is no longer possible to permanently trap a player
• it is no longer possible to goo yourself up to block incoming damage
• it is no longer possible to interrupt a cashout steal by blocking line of sight to the cashout by gooing up the stealing player
• it is now possible for teammates to more easily damage gooed up enemy players

my suggestion for the "gooed" effect itself:

• duration 2 seconds (possibly less) ( this need to be enough to swap from googun to another weapon (eg. sledgehammer/flamethrower/shotgun) and do some damage before the effect wears out
• slow amount similar to stun gun

please share your thoughts on this 😁

[fickle radish]

progress is really short. Lvl 50 is fast af and you can reach it in like 15 hours, same for battlepass. Diamond is pretty easy to reach (obviously if you are at least a bit above average) and going over diamond 4 makes no sense unless you care about leaderboard cause you dont get any reward for that. The only remaining thing is levelling up stuff but also makes no sense and is incredibly slow cause you get like 1k xp for each match and also grinding a weapon only to get a recolor is not even worth the effort

[dim onyx]

you hit it right on the head w that, nearly 400 hours in and barely have my shit level4-5 or am currently grinding 6

[obsidian nexus]

I heard a riot main talking about goo nade and flashbang. goo to gain distance on enemys and flashbang to get that first hit

[pallid blade]

I don't think so but I've no idea how that goes, maybe based on account level or something

[dim onyx]

so do u feel the sbmm or am i going crazy?

[pallid blade]

I'd say most of the time it doesn't feel like I'm playing against diamond players in QC or the other modes

but idk, it's hard to say since it's not like everyone is sweating there

[fickle radish]

i only have fcar, akm, defib, heals and jumpad lvl 7. Everything else is stuck at 5 cause getting 150k takes ages ad you cant even do much about it. Even if you try to spam all the stuff you still get 1k per match on average

except for googun, that think is the only one that is farmable

[dim onyx]

rpg and barricade are the only things that are level 7 and my healing beam and pyro nade are only lvl 6. i didnt know that there was a soft cap on weapon xp, its no wonder it takes so long.

[fickle radish]

No wait, there is no soft cap, I meant that on average you get around 1k XP. I mostly get 1k on quick cash, maybe a bit more if I get a lot of kills. Consumables are almost the same, you can get a bit more if you spam it a lot, but you still don't get much.

Only gun that i found that can be farmed is goo gun. On a power shift match I kept spamming the goo the whole time on the corner of the map and I got like 5k (yes I know I have a lot of time to waste these days, I don't even like it)

well as far as i know, maybe there is a soft cap, idk

[trail sedge]

#💣┇weapons-gadgets

[hallow current]

COUNTDOWN TO SEASON 3 BOYS!!!

MAY ALL OF OUR RECCOMENDATIONS COME TRUE!!

MAY THE FINALS BE RECOGNIZED AS THE CURRENT BEST SHOOTER RIGHT NOW!!

HUZZAA‼️

[placid skiff]

And can CL-40 get some love? So few skins. I would love a also bit of buff :)) so it does not take 4 shots to kill.. now you get 3 shoots and the opponent has like 10-20 life left... so one more shoot is needed.

[soft ether]

the damage for the cl40 has been bugged since the beta and it will randomly not hit or do less damage on direct shots, painful being a GL main because devs will not address it

[true thorn]

it's def fun but idk about best

[fickle radish]

Man wtf, is a double tap on lights and triple tap on mediums. Plus the pure chaos that you can give to the match, also no aim required

[hallow current]

It's definitely the most fun shooter gameplay out right now.

As far as adding features it's not the best because it's new and they purposely add things to the game slowly to keep engagement.

But gameplay wise, it's fun AF.

[sinful dagger]

In theory, this is the best fps of all time

[digital saddle]

yet in practice, titanfall 2 is.

[sinful dagger]

True

Movement was top tier

[fickle radish]

damn EA killing his only good game in years TWICE

only to steal some of its content to make apex

[fickle radish]

Talking about titanfall

[placid skiff]

Have experienced hits not registering - true

[placid skiff]

No aim? 😦 really, it;s hell against long range and higer targets - you have to account for lob and is almost useless in closer range, since it shoots way to slow compared tu automatic weapons. It's pretty ok from medium distance... but it's most fun since it resembles the Quake2 rocket launcher or grenade launcher from Quake 3.

And definitely it lacks some skins -- it never is in any packs...

[fickle radish]

totally agree with this, but not with the other stuff. Granade launcher is one of the easiest guns to use, it only hard on a range at which you shouldnt use it anyway. On medium short range is easy af, just shot on center body or only on their feet while jumping and strafing like a light and the game is done. You only have to pay attention about who are you engaging cause of the little magazine, but you can pray around it also pretty easily

[pallid blade]

grenade launchers got buffed indirectly with the APS nerf

[placid skiff]

I think that the low magazine, long delays between shots, the lob -- makes it a unique tradeoff compared to other weapons.

If it was so powerful, than higher ranking games would spam it.. but it is rarely used.. Also, you can get hurt a lot with it, by yourself 🙂

[fickle radish]

i'm not saying that its op, never mentioned that. Is useless like every other noob tube on every other game. If you have aim every other gun is better. If you only want to chill on quickcash or lower ranks you can run the granade launcher

but for sure the gun does not need a nerf

[pallid blade]

It's like a B tier now I'd say

[fickle radish]

and its perfectly fine on B tier

[bronze spade]

this game needs weapon pick ups that are on the ground like a heavy sniper or quake rocket launcher

[fleet brook]

Shots to kill is a good way to measure the pressure exerted by a weapon

[sand monolith]

Yes, it’s an important stat. But far from an accurate description of how good a weapon is

[valid nebula]

i like the reecon seneses more than the dematerializer

why cant they use the dematerializer as agadget and not a specialization

[restive plover]

Because recon needed to be replaced.

[fleet brook]

Free wall hacks goo brrr

It also could've made it harder to detect cheaters based off gameplay

[boreal laurel]

I prefer demat myself. It’s pretty intuitive for me, while recon senses always felt clunky

[brazen tusk]

Is smoke + heat vision a real combo, or is it too expensive and niche to be considered

[digital saddle]

smoke is still lacking: too little aoe, not dense enough, dissipates too quickly. one of the things I wish to see changed.

[brazen tusk]

I think it's cooking, but like in small rooms mostly

Really good vs snipers if you can't be bothered to hunt them

[digital saddle]

it does what it should. just not enough

[inland sphinx]

nerf throwing knifes

[ashen vale]

NERF dagger , sword , sniper , burst pistol , v9s , xp 54 , m11 , famas , akm , fcar , cl 40 , riot shield , model 1887 , sledgehammer , flamethrower , Grenade launcher , lewis gun , m60 , dome shield , baricade , healing beam , jump pad , zipline , gateway , gas grenade , frag grenade , pyro , dash , guardian turret , wall hack , aim assist , mesh shield , charge and slam , goo gun , grappling hook , sonar grenade , goo grenade , sa1216 , heavy shotgun

and also 93r

[amber cloak]

NERF THE GAME

[amber cloak]

you forgot recon senses lol

[torn mantle]

is AKM just overall better then FCAR now?

I rarely see any more FCAR users when I play and the game used to be filled with them

[restive plover]

I'd say so. The scar has a little bit of extra reach but I think having 170 extra damage in a magazine is better.

[open blade]

Add kriss vector for medium

love what you do embark

[brisk silo]

OK, hear me out...

[pallid blade]

I feel like I still see plenty of FCARs, it's more balanced between the 2 though

[plucky lance]

[foggy sparrow]

Nice idea

[foggy sparrow]

He is real. Dm him

[fleet brook]

My only ask is that closing a hole with the demat didn't consume a charge

[fleet brook]

TF is like half that list heavys shotgun isn't even good?

What're you smoking for like half those things brother put down the pipe

Also you're a PC players cause you complain about aim assist

[jovial basin]

Why can you hipfire so accurately with the sniper. It feels awful dying in two hits. When the light is zipping through me with dash.

[restive plover]

Reject The Finals, return to monke

[fleet brook]

Not monkey cod

[ashen vale]

its good, i use it everytime

[fleet brook]

Which one

There's 2

KS -23 which at best is meh

And the quad tube

[ashen vale]

ks 23

[tidal oriole]

By far the KS-23, the rl isn’t even impact so it’s hard to even to any damage

[boreal laurel]

YES

[pulsar haven]

Can we get indicators for grenades when one is thrown near you?

[cold minnow]

no

I think the lethality of grenades is good right now, indicator would detract from that

especially since you cant cook them

[slow flare]

To the insane asylum you go

[radiant vapor]

pls change goo gun the current state of this thing is just a self troll

when i shoot a player with it to stick them, they can just run out the back and the goo stays stuck in the air blocking me from dealing any damage or hunting them down
this makes basically all combat applications of this useless and the only thing left to do is build a bunker (witch is terribly boring)

i understand that the old goo/player interaction was not good since it was possible to permanently trap someone

my suggestion would be to:

• at least have the goo not stay floating in the air
• but best make the goo apply a slow effect and not create a rigid foam if it hits a player. the slow could be indicated by a status effect "gooed" (like burning/EMPed) to have a visual indicator that the slow is applied.

this would mean that:

• It is no longer possible to permanently trap a player
• it is no longer possible to goo yourself up to block incoming damage
• it is no longer possible to interrupt a cashout steal by blocking line of sight to the cashout by gooing up the stealing player
• it is now possible for teammates to more easily damage gooed up enemy players

my suggestion for the "gooed" effect itself:

• duration 2 seconds (possibly less) ( this need to be enough to swap from googun to another weapon (eg. sledgehammer/flamethrower/shotgun) and do some damage before the effect wears out
• slow amount similar to stun gun

please share your thoughts on this 😁

[spice swan]

I agree with this! I especially like your suggestion of having the goo apply a slow effect. Currently, using the goo gun feels like you’re at the mercy of a glitchy goo system. It would be much healthier for the game if the goo gun was more consistent with its effect on enemy players. Additionally, having a status indicator when someone is affected by goo is important feedback, as it would allow both the goo user and person getting goo’d to respond accordingly, leading to less confusing/infuriating goo interactions.

[brazen tusk]

Alr I checked the thermal + smoke combo. ITS ACTUALLY REALLY STRONG, but only within the smokes range. Open spaces are no go, but within the cloud youre borderline invisible while you see everyone, so if you mess with cloak youre untraceable
But its a power trip once every 30 seconds, only if the conditions are right kind of deal

[glass blaze]

what is the best gadget for medium exept for jump pad and defibrilator?

[late thicket]

Imagine the winchester 1897, a slam fire shotgun in the finals: it has a fast rate of fire of 240 rpm when holding down the trigger, the spread is between the sa 1216 and model 1887 it does 110 damage and has a 5 round tube magazine, it is also an easter egg to bf 1.

[late thicket]

Zipline probably

[glass blaze]

but it doesnt pair well with jump pad becuase you already have movement

[late thicket]

Grenade is also a strong gadget, maybe the aps is decent but with the recent nerf it did become a lot weaker.

[glass blaze]

yea

[crystal garnet]

APS still has its uses in most cases. No one is spamming more than 3 grenades at once most of the time, nor is the APS eating all of those if the enemy player is smart

[pallid blade]

you can use both, it's called a movement medium

[late thicket]

What do you guys think of adding the desert eagle as a pistol for the heavy class, both light and medium have a pistol but the heavy doesn't; it would have a 7 round magazine, strong damage fallof, similar but slightly less recoil than the revolver, a rate of fire of 240 or 300 rpm and do 70 damage.

55 damage would actually be better

[pallid blade]

that's been suggested a million times now xd, also 55 damage with 7 bullets? That's awful...revolver does 74 with 6 and it's not great

[dim onyx]

throwing knives r broken rn💀💀

yeah no im prob just gonna wait for season 3 to roll around. straight up not fun being light spammed with throwing knives that do 280 with only 2 headies

[hollow tiger]

throwing knives are broke as fuck

[pallid blade]

2 headshots do 189, each doing 94.5

[dim onyx]

so 1 burst headshot and 1 body will kill most ppl yeah sounds balanced lmfao

[sage tendon]

I had 80 hours on tk before the buff and its definitely broken now

[dim onyx]

i dont understand the rhetoric that lights NEED to have something insanely broken in order to compete. my brother in christ you chose the glass cannon class.

[pallid blade]

it's not that broken, either revert the damage, and probably kill it again, or increase the time between each projectile again

people making it sound like it's an insta win and compared to other light weapons I don't really agree

[dim onyx]

bruh it literally is an insta kill weapon when you add literally every other aspect of the game on top of third parties

[pallid blade]

compared to what? if we're talking DPS it's not even the highest 😒

even being overtuned

but because it's a projectile ttk is much faster if you're hugging someone

[dim onyx]

paired with hypermobility and every other gadget light has to track and hunt you down? ppl compare it to the rpg but you can't keep shooting the rpg over and over and over again and barrel stuff anybody you choose like light can

that's what I'm trying to say it would be like if heavies rpg was a primary with 0 drawback

[pallid blade]

i mean compared to other light weapons, I'm not saying it's not too strong, but if you put it side to side with the mp5, uzi, lh1, silenced pistol, it's not as OP as people are making it sound, it's only the strongest against Mediums specifically

[dim onyx]

no compared to every primary tk blow it out of the water everytime

[pallid blade]

also sucks at range so it's probably still not great in ranked either I'd imagine

[vivid flax]

Throwing knives arent broken yall are just not used to them being viable

[dim onyx]

they were always viable they just required skill to use

[fast aspen]

op the topic of throwing knives, this is either broken or this guy has aimbot AF

[dim onyx]

no thats fair according to every light player

[pallid blade]

that's not true, at all, like I said, full body shots, only has the highest ttk against medium

[dim onyx]

bro what r u smoking, i am getting fucking destroyed by tk since the patch as every class. tk destroy everybody

[pallid blade]

and if we're counting full headshots, it only has the highest against lights

[dim onyx]

on paper

in practice its a dif story what ab this arent u getting

[pallid blade]

yes, in practice it's much harder to hit projectiles than hitscan

[misty wadi]

The main issue for me is the range of them, I'm getting sniped with them at this point

[fast aspen]

so every light player suddenly became a god at aiming, gotcha

[dim onyx]

guys guys we're the dumb ones tk are perfectly balanced

[pallid blade]

don't need to be a god to hit a guy right in front of you lmao

[dim onyx]

thank u for getting the point and missing it in the same sentence

[pallid blade]

now do it from range like with the mp5 and lh1

[fast aspen]

hmm you are right, it's the same story

they are all broken it seems..

i need to hit a medium 5 times with LH1

[pallid blade]

you're the one missing the point, by your logic, almost all light weapons need a nerf xd

[misty wadi]

I use the mp5 and that beams over medium range, damage drops off long range but its still way too strong medium range for an SMG imo

[fast aspen]

i think that the problem doesn't lie in the fact that it's strong, the accuracy is the problem..
SMGs shouldn't beat snipers/ARs

[pallid blade]

ok, and?

[fast aspen]

you need to hit a medium with 2 clicks for a kill with TK

[pallid blade]

good luck with that from afar

[dim onyx]

are you saying light doesnt?? like abusing emote cancel on melee, using broken tk, hqving the most utility in the entire game. i could go on

majority of the player base isint top 5%. thats why ow died

[pallid blade]

first off, emote cancelling is cheating and ban worthy, second, most utility in the game? wtf

[dim onyx]

teleport wall hack vanish nade breach charge

[pallid blade]

i mean, i guess if there's only lights in the game it would have the most utility...

[misty wadi]

That's the point though, it does do that from afar, at least over medium range and can hit over even longer range with enough throws

[dim onyx]

and if everyone is only playing light for the tk what do u have

[fast aspen]

i suck with TK and even i go 15 on 5 easily

[dim onyx]

everybody playing an annoying class using busted weapons and all claiming they are so good and how.much skill they have

[pallid blade]

you can do that with the m11

[dim onyx]

the point being tk take 0 skill and reward you for being ass

[fast aspen]

then you've never seen my aim 😂

[pallid blade]

dw you don't need headshots :p

[fast aspen]

again, then you've never seen my aim 😂

there's a reason why i like heavy sledge

[pallid blade]

if you can do it with tk you can do it with the m11 😂

[fast aspen]

i don't need to aim to hit like a truck

[pallid blade]

I mean, idk who's saying any of that but ok

[pallid blade]

should try model 1887, it's pretty fun, if it fired a little faster it would be about the same as tk rn

[kind orchid]

Anyone else noticed the Striped Grazer skin missing for the throwing knives?

[dim onyx]

its common rhetoric

[fast aspen]

impossible, throwing knives don't miss

[kind orchid]

Sucks, I'm so good with them it would be nice to have the last level

[near oasis]

Tk is broken

[kind orchid]

They feel fun, I think some other guns could use a buff

[pallid blade]

nuh uh nerf every gun🤡

[sinful dagger]

That take is crazy lmao. Tk isn't broken but needs a very slight fire rate nerf. Emote cancels aren't as common now and that's such a small percent of light players. Most utility is wrong and even if they did their utility is not half as useful. Gateway is the only one that can be compared to jump pad or zip line. Sonar nade isn't amazing but it's good. Vanish nade doesn't help teammates that much. Counting breach charge as super useful utility is hilarious. Mediums have defib(best utility in game), jump pad, zip, aps(needs a buff), heal beam(second best utility.) heavy doesn't have as much utility but pure damage potential with their health. Kinda crazy to say that if you ask me.

[misty axle]

Uniroonically, I'd vote for this: I'd love a longer TtK, which should make movment more important.

[pallid blade]

yeah, healing beam isn't broken enough

[misty axle]

Yeah, give it defib on the right click too haha

[sinful dagger]

Heal beam should also do damage to enemies when both are clicked at same time

[fast aspen]

they need to implement that the person who gets defibbed can say 'no thank you' instead of being defibbed by a teammate mid battle who's running sentry

[pallid blade]

to add to that heavies do have utility, if there's 2 that's 3 shields, 4 barricades and a ton of destruction

[sinful dagger]

True, I just wanted him to get the fact that light doesn't have as much utility as other classes and half of what he tried to list out is not good team utility

[pallid blade]

best utility light's had was insta nerfed, and the portals aren't always good

[sinful dagger]

Yea glitches are near useless and cloak isn't as good as a recon tool, I think they should lean into that (rework) instead of nerfing it because of its annoying combat capabilities

Make it good at strategizing instead of raw fights

[dim onyx]

kinda crazy u fail to see meads as being the weakest class bc all they have to their name is heals and rezes. lights have the most weapons and utilitiy to allow for alot of different playstyles. the fact u think tk arent broken proves my point that lights just want a broken weapon amd want to be broken with 0 downsides. sonar grenades are good glitch nades r amazing, invis, the list goes on

[sinful dagger]

No way your still complaining about cloak that's crazy

[pallid blade]

medium is the weakest class? whaaa

[dim onyx]

thanks 4 missing the point

[sinful dagger]

What's the point?

That lights have more utility? Which I have shown with raw numbers that that's wrong

[dim onyx]

that light is fucking annoying and the only ppl wanting them to be more crazy than they already are is the top 5% of players

[pallid blade]

tk isn't as broken as you make it out to be, and the nerf it needs isn't as big as you think it is

[sinful dagger]

Annoying is very different from good

Just because their super fast and small probably makes them annoying

[pallid blade]

what the top 5% players want is actually for heavy to not be meta every season

[sinful dagger]

Pushups while arguing about the finals is W

[molten delta]

just went up against a full light team in the finals, easy smash

[dim onyx]

i already said it earlier im going to wait until s3 rolls around for them to fix this shit. shits not fun period point blank

[molten delta]

light is by far weakest class, no hp, no way to pick up teammates, just stick together with meta team and they are useless. cant even use a shield to defend themselves

they only work in qualifying rounds

[sinful dagger]

Oh that was the point? Maybe to you that's true. Although with heavy I have never lost against a light except a skilled dagger main who dunked on my ass

[pallid blade]

sure, if you're not having fun, but that's your opinion...

[dim onyx]

idk how to tell yall majority of people dont play only ranked or sweat this game all day. some of us actually have jobs and lives

[sinful dagger]

I play mainly casual but grinded rank with heavy because I wanted platinum XP 54

[pallid blade]

👆 except I grinded diamond💀

[molten delta]

what does having a job have to do with playing as a team? does your job teach you that teamwork is bad?

[dim onyx]

i could literally say that to any light player

[molten delta]

?? wat dude?

[dim onyx]

idk im j getting mad i gotta j stop lmao good talk fr

[sinful dagger]

Sizism in the finals is crazy.

[molten delta]

i agree light players are bad, but from a competetive perspective. light plays typically are underhanded and only work if you are using some form of bait

[pallid blade]

light's job is to punish solo play...can't be mad if you're killed after bad positioning, better to learn from it

[dim onyx]

solo play is reminiscent of ow solo queue. simply put unbearable

and thats majority of my playtime is solo so that's prob y i get so mad at this game

[sinful dagger]

I played meta heavy charge and had no problems solo queuing. Although with other classes it's quite a bit harder

[pallid blade]

i've only played solo, at least ranked, and yes it's frustrating, hilariously ow was a snooze fest because of SHIELDS, not Genji zipping about

[molten delta]

punishing solo play is just ruining solo queue experience. this is why this type of playstyle is in my opinion bad because it only hurts players without comms/teammates. If you have a stack then its never going to work, and therefor only hurts the casual player. which also happens to be the majority of the community and/or new players

[sinful dagger]

As long as I'm alive my team cannot lose

Not to flex hehe, just heavy meta

[pallid blade]

I mean solo play not as soloqueue but as in not being near your teammates

[molten delta]

i mean if you are in a stack and not playing near your teammates then why play in a stack. so you can make funny joke?

[pallid blade]

why not play near your teammates even if you aren't in a stack?

[dim onyx]

i just think that the sanbox element of the game is what draws people to it , not number crunching and finding out the most broken shit to use. Hopefully they add vehicles and more sandbox stuff so that everything else doesnt feel.as broken

[pallid blade]

we'll see, pretty hyped for S3, hope the guns are a bit better though, I don't like burst fire at all😅

[molten delta]

I grinded all the way to plat 2 or plat 3 as a solo queue. honestly, its worth it to just use LFG. I think solo queue has merit and can teach you alot about how to play without relying on others cough (heavys who complain they arent getting enough heals) cough but anyway, yea. try finding some teammates.

[sinful dagger]

I don't know how they'll integrate vehicles seems it's gonna go like glitch barrels where it sounds cool but plays horribly

[molten delta]

honestly i dont see anybody using 23R unless its a meme

[pallid blade]

if it's like the beta footage it just seem like a fast ride from point a to point b, at least the car

[pallid blade]

yeah...I'm surprised it hasn't been buffed a bit more

[sinful dagger]

Yea but like, dragons are cool but should we add a class that's litterly just a dragon? No

[molten delta]

you know what needs a nerf? damn combat knife

It is pain to see this random guy get a "backstab" while charging directly at you and kills you in 1/3rd of a second. I get that after the first death you should be aware of the guy and be on the look out for him, but honestly it plays like alot of the light class playstyles. Not there until randomly one of your teammates dies and then he just runs off and hopes you dont have good aim

[sinful dagger]

Headphones best counter to dagger

[molten delta]

you might kill him every time but he still takes out one of your players pretty much for free

[restive plover]

Dagger lights when you turn around as they dash: 😦

[pallid blade]

well, dagger either does that or nothing at all😂 , wouldn't say it needs a nerf

in fact haven't seen any in my games lately

[molten delta]

maybe just some balance changes

I have seen i think 3 light dagger players in high plat/ low diamond lobbies in the last 2 days

[pallid blade]

did they win?😂

[molten delta]

shi, they qualify, idk about win.

[pallid blade]

daayum, I'mma be honest they might have been messing around though, at least some of them

[molten delta]

just never fun when in 1 second you are down 2 teammates to insta kills, thats all im sayin

it would be cool if they could fix them so its not all or nothing, but idk if its possible

[pallid blade]

ofc ofc, it's just not consistent at all

[fickle radish]

under diamond is still viable winning with lights

harder but viable

[low kettle]

hi

[hallow current]

6 DAYS PEFT UNTIL THE NEW SEASON!!!

HUZZAH‼️‼️

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/spurrit-msm-my-singing-monsters-meme-my-reaction-to-that-information-gif-6216166688587922114

[toxic quail]

How viable is flamethrower in the higher ranks? Just started playing and am gold 4 playing flamethrower/mesh/rpg/barricade/dome shield

[restive plover]

It's not. Use the sa12 instead.

[toxic quail]

Fair enough, what makes it inviable?

[restive plover]

Super short range and the worst DPS in the game. The sa12 has similar range but way, way better damage. Flamethrower is only really good for riot shields and lights.

But those aren't exactly struggling matchups for heavy to begin with.

[toxic quail]

Yeah I feel like I have to deal with tons of lights in my lobbies and I find it easy to get hits as my aim isn’t as great as I’d like. I’ll definitely have to try out the sa12 though, thanks for the advice

[toxic quail]

Do you think the aforementioned specialization/gadgets work well with that weapon?

[restive plover]

RPG barricade and dome works for anything heavy has. If you're solo queing I would recommend charge over mesh.

[shut bane]

predictions on new class weapons?

heard someone mention a long double barrel shotgun, i pray that isnt the case

[sinful dagger]

Probably a bow

Either for medium or light

[jade grove]

How yall feel about tracking dart

Ok thanks

[amber cloak]

Fire gadget

I actively use it in my light build

[undone ether]

hi guys, does anyone have the problem where you have completed all the circuit challenge but have not received the AK circuit cosmetic?

[brazen tusk]

Probably for light just so they can finish their collection of strangely powerful medieval weapons

[brazen tusk]

What do you think about mesh + hammer

[novel oar]

real

does anyone know the content creator Bibbit

[digital saddle]

Light please. but it depends on how they design it.

[novel oar]

prob for light (PLEASE)

[dense oasis]

throwing spear for Light, Recurve for Medium, and a compound crossbow for heavy

[brazen tusk]

Ooo, BEEG CROSSBOW

Heavy balista

[runic thunder]

Im sick and tired of the heal gun bug like every 4-5 rounds it straight up will not work and it blows me away this has been a problem since launch and they still haven't fixed.

[shadow onyx]

I have found the new strat, triple grenade launcher spam. Actually kind of hilarious hopefully aps will be buffed slightly

[digital saddle]

well, the crossest thing will be I 😸

[runic thunder]

not being able to heal for an entire round and not being able to switch off to turret or demat just forces you to not have a gadget

[dense oasis]

Yes! And it's the only hitscan out of the three

[north flint]

Could you guys please add a gun animation for when sliding and shooting

[sinful dagger]

yea def hope its for light

[sly estuary]

thoughts about nunchucks for medium maybe

[near pumice]

Oscar as an Oscar! Dagger skin

[sinful dagger]

Don't know how that'd work but would be cool

[plucky topaz]

i think it depends on the map. if you are mostly indoors flamethrower can clear off a cashout against multiple enemies quite well. i see people using it in plat. also great for getting rid of gas

[brazen tusk]

Is dagger for trolling or it's a legit weapon?

[echo ridge]

anything on light is throwing

it's usable in casual maybe

[urban coral]

When is the LH1 and Throwing Knives and Evasive Dash all getting a nerf and Vanish Bomb getting removed

[opal perch]

why would they nerf the worst class in the game?

[urban coral]

Because those are all overpowered and annoying. Buff other aspects of the class but nerf the broken parts.

[opal perch]

nerfing anything they have rn would be bad. lights die to a brisk wind. Turn and shoot them. ez game. also LH1 and dash are barely close to throwing knives rn

[sinful dagger]

This Ohio skibidi kid has gyatt to be phanum taxing us

[urban coral]

I shit on everyone with with MP5 except for Lights using Evasive Dash with LH1 or Throwing Knives. Those weapons and ability are blatantly overpowered. Anything else is just a skill issue.

[opal perch]

mp5 has a slower ttk than the m11 rn. And the lh1 is way more skill reliant/accuracy reliant and should keep its damage for that reason alone lol. Also the dash aint op at all. just cause you get scrapped by it doesn't mean its op. the throwing knives are a bit much though.

[urban coral]

LH1 is not skill reliant LOL. Almost no recoil since the Season Two buff and it does FIFTY-NINE damage per shot with a fifteen round magazine. That gun is complete bullshit and it's a crutch for bad players. MP5 is balanced right now and I destroy with it so there is no reason that anyone can't do the same. It's a skill issue for everyone using the LH1/Throwing Knives as a crutch because they're bad.

The biggest issue with Dash is people using it to run from fights and get away when they should have lost the gun fight. You shouldn't be able to spam all three dashes at once, especially with how quickly they regen. There should be a cooldown of like two seconds between dash uses. I think it would be fine then.

I like this game a lot and I am excited for Season Three but if something isn't done with the balancing I am going to quit. It pisses me off dying to the same nerds using skilless meta trash every game.

[opal perch]

I just hope they can take us away from double heavy meta in S3. Its just so boring to play. Light has "Op gear." yet its still all HHM/MHM in ranked. I barley see lights in plat^

[urban coral]

I'm in diamond and seeing HHM or MMH is so boring I hate it too.

[sinful dagger]

Nerfing dash is the most interesting imaginative thoughtless take I've ever heard

[urban coral]

Just say you're bad at the game bro.

[sinful dagger]

You play cloak?

Nerfing dash is such a skibedo rizz lord take

[urban coral]

Yeah probably the worst ability for Light right now.

[sinful dagger]

Forgot about grapple?

[urban coral]

Grapple is more useful when Vanish Bomb is a thing.

[sinful dagger]

Just say cloak needs a buff, not get rid of vanish bomb and nerf dash lmao

[urban coral]

Also the nerfs to Cloak are all unneeded and stupid.

[urban coral]

I think Cloak just needs its activation cost reduced.

[opal perch]

the only cloak "nerf" i agreed with is the sound being varied from ally to enemy. but i don't count it

[sinful dagger]

Cloak should've been reworked to be a scouting tool instead of a combat tool

[urban coral]

Vanish Bomb should be removed because it makes Cloak completely unneeded. You get two abilities on one class if you run Vanish Bomb with Dash or Grapple.

I don't think it's fair to have two abilities, especially when one makes Cloak completely null.

[sinful dagger]

It doesn't, just ask for a cloak buff

[urban coral]

I doubt they will buff it because people are blind or something and complain about not being able to see it but I have always been able to see it pretty easily, even before the nerf.

[sinful dagger]

Nerfing dash coming from a light player is the most unexpected thing

[urban coral]

Casual players cry about it so much when it was never overpowered.

[sinful dagger]

Cloak needed a rework, not a nerf

[urban coral]

Because even as a Light player I recognize it's unfair. I'm not going to hold a bias just because I main the class. It needs to be reworked or nerfed.

[sinful dagger]

Why does it need to be nerfed

There is a .5 second delay between dashes

[urban coral]

That's not enough. It should be around two seconds in my opinion. It's too spammable and is just used to run from fights they should have lost or making themselves near impossible to hit between Throwing Knife throws.

[sinful dagger]

So throwing knives and your positioning is the problem here

Dashes don't take you very far, just quick. You should be pushing them when they get low health

[urban coral]

My positioning is fine. I recognize how important it is as Light, but most players don't and that's why it's rarely picked in higher ranks. I made it to Diamond without using Evasive Dash or Throwing Knives/LH1.

[sinful dagger]

Good for you. Anyway you should not expect a dash player to die when your shooting them from over 20 meters. Of course they'll run, it's the smart decision.

[urban coral]

Whether I'm close or far it doesn't matter, they run when they're far and dash too quickly to be tracked when up close. It's not a skillbased ability.

[crimson aurora]

There can be some skill to it but it’s just positioning mainly

[sinful dagger]

They just outplayed you at close range then.

Or they simply had the advantage at the time

[urban coral]

Spamming Q isn't outplaying. That doesn't require skill. It's a crutch.

Especially when they kill me in three hits with LH1/Throwing Knives.

[sinful dagger]

I mean, they just have better movement

Spamming q is not all there is to dash

[urban coral]

That is not good movement. That is spamming Q.

Good movement would be somebody hitting a grapple or jump pad and bunnyhopping out of it to maintain speed to get around a player so fast that they cannot be hit.

[crimson aurora]

I use dash and most the time it’s to close the distance or stop them from shooting me,

[urban coral]

That is one of my issues with it. It's used to get out of gun fights that you should have lost.

The better player should win the gun fight. You shouldn't have a "get out of jail free" card.

[sinful dagger]

With dash you need to think about the direction your dashing. When you should be dashing to dodge bullets(knowledge on 1887 firerate)

[crimson aurora]

That is a good point but same can be said for invis

[urban coral]

Cloak is so easy to see that you can't really use it to get away from somebody that already sees you unless they're half blind.

[sinful dagger]

Dash also needs quick thinking, analysis of the environment to avoid bumping into a random pebble

[urban coral]

I see cloaked Lights from half way across the map easily. I am not sure why people complain about that ability.

[crimson aurora]

I don’t but to some extent in can be used as a get out of jail free card

[sinful dagger]

Is that an exaggeration?

Be honest, kinda like my "random pebble" comment

[urban coral]

Any type of moving in this game's fast-paced and dynamic environment requires that. That isn't a skill, that's the bare minimum to be able to adapt to surroundings with any class.

[urban coral]

No that is not any form of exaggeration or hyperbole. I can easily see cloaked enemies and have no problem tracking them. They're very visible.

[sinful dagger]

I mean, dash is chaotic and isn't as methodical as regular bhops. And I meant is it true you can see them halfway across the map?

[urban coral]

I can see them from any distance that they may be able to kill me from.

I don't have a range finder. I don't know exact distances. I just know it's far enough away that I can beam them before they get close enough to do any damage on me.

[fading crater]

So whats the point in shields, other gadgets, hp difference, having a team, etc. The one and only true scenario to determine witch player is better and should win a fight is to have same weapon, same ammo and same hp. Even the same terrain.
People always search for excuses why they unfairly lost a fight. Maybe its time to accept the truth about skill issue 🤔

[muted tapir]

Fr

[austere sun]

Fr

[cunning flume]

the kids yearn for kriss vector gen 2

[plucky lance]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu4wyzFQ_Ac

watch

[fickle radish]

Give it to medium, I really want an SMG

[cunning flume]

yeah I was thinking it doesnt seem unique enough to really fit as a new addition, only thing I can think of is dual wielding vectors for heavy lmfao

[fickle radish]

oh god no. But i dont care lol, i just want an smg on medium cause i really like mp5 on light, but i dont like light soooo

[slow flare]

Your levels of ignorance and judgement says it all

[drowsy osprey]

WE NEED THIS

[fleet brook]

I'm just gonna say this y'all's profile description have the same level of ability to be memed on for y'all to be arguing

[median olive]

[fleet brook]

Gimme another cat meme

Also I need more destruction in the game

[median olive]

[mellow pivot]

i think they should do something like a spider web for the grapple hook like spider man or something. obviously not exactly spider man to avoid a law suit but some similar like that would be cool

[icy swift]

If they do something like that I’d want it to be part of a Halloween event where you could also get a spider costume at the same time then you could also do one gadget and outfit for each class

[icy swift]

I can not explain how many calk jokes would happen with that skin, that being said I’m part of the problem and am willing to pay $10 for that

[obsidian nexus]

increase LH1 damage by 1

[pallid blade]

nah increase it by 101

[near pumice]

I made a channel on it #1247567981513412698

[icy swift]

Embark should 100% add galvanized square steel

[cold dune]

oh hell yeah make a complete living space in the rooms

[simple lantern]

YES

GIVE ME THAT WONDERFUL PIECE OF WEAPONRY RIGHT FUCKING NOW OR I WILL RIP OFF YOUR TOENAILS EMBARK

also a katana maybe

[south ridge]

None of the AKM animations compatible with the new Holtow Skin? Really?? Scammed.

[thin ermine]

Day 20 of waiting for Desert Eagle for heavys let’s see if they add it for season 3

[iron knot]

Id curl up in a ball and wither away

[thin ermine]

Lmgs can get kinda boring after some time and the pump shotgun it’s kinda weird, we need a heavy magnum to add variety to heavy’s loadout

[icy swift]

I’m more hyped for a crossbow

[iron knot]

That would be way cooler

[thin ermine]

Crossbows are boring, a bow would be more fun

[icy swift]

Crossbow would better fit the games feel though

Especially for heavy slower loading and more reliable

[radiant vapor]

pls change goo gun the current state of this thing is just a self troll

when i shoot a player with it to stick them, they can just run out the back and the goo stays stuck in the air blocking me from dealing any damage or hunting them down
this makes basically all combat applications of this useless and the only thing left to do is build a bunker (witch is terribly boring)

i understand that the old goo/player interaction was not good since it was possible to permanently trap someone

my suggestion would be to:

• at least have the goo not stay floating in the air
• but best make the goo apply a slow effect and not create a rigid foam if it hits a player. the slow could be indicated by a status effect "gooed" (like burning/EMPed) to have a visual indicator that the slow is applied.

this would mean that:

• It is no longer possible to permanently trap a player
• it is no longer possible to goo yourself up to block incoming damage
• it is no longer possible to interrupt a cashout steal by blocking line of sight to the cashout by gooing up the stealing player
• it is now possible for teammates to more easily damage gooed up enemy players

my suggestion for the "gooed" effect itself:

• duration 2 seconds (possibly less) ( this need to be enough to swap from googun to another weapon (eg. sledgehammer/flamethrower/shotgun) and do some damage before the effect wears out
• slow amount similar to stun gun

please share your thoughts on this 😁

[zinc kiln]

Something like a Winchester 1878 would make a nice wepon for any class, like for heavy you can have a full length one with slow firerate but high damage, for medium you could have like a half length one dealing less damage but quicker (kinda like the 1887 but worse close range and better long/mid) and for light you could have a sawn off one shooting a wide shotgun-like spray for a more sustained version of the sh1900

[rough carbon]

Roman candle firework cl-40 grenade launcher skin

[tepid star]

M11 is op for my opinion. Cuz I got a decent settings

[dull forum]

Can se what you mean however I'd argue it's fine, especially compared to throwing knifes or LH1

[tepid star]

I’m like 75% with M11. And same percentage with Throwing Knives

[digital saddle]

just to be fair, the M11 should get less range through accuracy or damage drop off, while Light shotty should at the very least get the one bullet reload the Medium model has.

[obsidian nexus]

Snipers make power shift unbearable i swear

Every game has atleast 2 snipers and i dont mind snipers that much. but hitscan is just cringe. no skill just point and click while ur sitting safe at spawn. atleast make the bullet have damage falloff or make it have an actual bullet that needs to travel. so it isnt hitscan and u need skill to use it

[molten gazelle]

DEVS PLEASE MAKE THE AK HOLTOW FINE PRINT COMPATIBLE WITH THE ANIMATIONS

[digital saddle]

the longer the distance, the less damage. why not?

[near pumice]

BAMMM SLAM PAM!! New ice cream idea!! they could also be rocket ice creams because those are sharp

[junior torrent]

the rocket pop would be pretty cool as a throwing knife

[dense oasis]

I have to agree with all of this. Throwing knife buff seems like they overcorrected, or maybe it’s a bug in how damage is calculated, cause the normal attack just melts heavies

[vivid scarab]

in

[fickle radish]

I think they over corrected. It's almost never good buffing every single aspect of one gun

[icy swift]

bomb pops as the rpg would go hard

[near pumice]

Yes

[wicked sluice]

It should be the other way around because that means that close range would just mean death for an unskilled player

[digital saddle]

which it does now. I tend to play it as the hidden Light shotgun.

[wicked sluice]

Wait it does

[digital saddle]

but I get the point. just not sure how to balance it.

[wicked sluice]

There's a channel on YouTube that has a great video about balancing snipers I can't remember the name though

[radiant vapor]

pls fix the backstab exploits with the dagger!!

just had a light i the game who strait up killed six ppl in 10 second by backstabbing them from the front

[dense oasis]

I feel like a good balance for snipers would be maybe hybridizing hitscan and projectile like Insurgency Sandstorm- if a projectile would hit in under, say, 250ms, then it’s just hitscan, and anything beyond that and it has bullet travel

[sudden leaf]

Why does nobody use the FMAS?

[restive plover]

Feels bad to use due to janky recoil and is just worse than the other rifles.

[iron knot]

Its a beam but if you get rushed your usually cooked

The recoil is beautiful tho

[sudden leaf]

The recoil is just strait up no?
It also has a bigger mag size and 1 more damage than the fcar

[dense oasis]

I think a lot of people generally dislike burst-fire only guns

[sudden leaf]

Probably the Iron sight too?

[dense oasis]

Even in Left 4 Dead 2, which has a really good burst-fire gun, people dislike it because of that

[restive plover]

One more damage but slower time to kill because of the time between bursts. And in the middle of the magazine it starts jumping to the right, then the left, before going back to straight at the very end.

[dense oasis]

The iron sights aren’t as terrible as some other games, imo. Its big and clean

[restive plover]

The irons are very nice.

[sudden leaf]

The Iron sight looks like the sa1216 tbh

[dense oasis]

I think overall the sights of all guns are pretty good.

[sudden leaf]

At least none of them are bad

Is there any clue to what the weapons will be?

I want something like a flintlock for heavy maybe

[radiant vapor]

honestly just give sniper bullet drop and traveltime

it is to be a skill weapon afert all

hitscan on a sniper is probaply the easyest shot to hit since u are shooting at unaware targets

[junior torrent]

real. sniper hitscan j feels like halo, point and click

[dense oasis]

That’s pretty much what I said, but hitscan up close so it feels less janky. And I think it’ll have a more defined skill gap

[hidden current]

Not exactly something I’d find nice, considering how half the community most likely is young, and not skilled in the ways of the finals

[dense oasis]

But maybe it shouldn’t be fair.

[fleet brook]

Every game I play besides like the finals and cod have strong bullet drops

For sniper weapons

Also it feels better to hit sniper shots in game with drops

[hidden current]

What is your reasoning for it?

[hidden current]

Maybe ask the devs to run a small test server, if the fans like it, they keep it, if not, then boom

[dense oasis]

Because some things should just be for people who are good. I look at it like… we’ll say standup. It’s not fair for most people, and it’s only rewarding for people who are funny, and that’s the point.

[fleet brook]

People don't like things that take high skill for the same output (especially younger players who haven't played games with semi realistic bullet drop)

[hidden current]

Hm, maybe we ask the devs to consider it then?

[dense oasis]

But then you run into the issue of whose viewpoint are they going to consider more

[sudden leaf]

Idea: Rebuild grenade, Rebuilds the area in which it is thrown

[digital saddle]

I enjoy snipin' long and close distance but something needs to be done. it is too easy. it is exploited too easily.

[pallid blade]

you wanna nerf a bad weapon over a single gamemode where it doesn't even contribute towards winning the game?

[fickle radish]

It's more about being annoying. I mean, on power shift snipers are mostly useless, but are not fun playing against it, every time you run out of cover even for half a sec you lose randomly half hp, and also cause of spawns if you want to fight them you have to cross the whole map also avoiding objective that would be the priority on the game.
When game released devs said that they want to balance the game in a manner that the game is fun for everyone so that a gun is fun playing with it but also playing against it. Sniper is only one way.
Also (and this is my personal opinion) on a game like the finals Sniper makes almost no sense. Every game is way more funny if there are no snipers

[pallid blade]

You could argue no weapons are fun dying or playing against, people just don't like lights because they can't take fair fights. It has been the weakest class since the start of S1 and it couldn't take a fair fight then, so imagine now...the reality is no matter what people are gonna complain about it no matter what weapon it is, and it's not gonna do anything, just gonna force lights to be more ratty

except maybe the 93r...

[digital saddle]

I wish it wasn't changed, but if I was honest, I think it is only just.

[fickle radish]

The thing is that sniper is the only weapon that I don't like dealing with. I'm fine fighting against every other type of weapons. Is not even about lights, it's about the sniper, wouldn't like it even if it was a medium or heavy weapon

My problem is against the sniper weapons that makes no sense on a fast paced and close range game like the finals. Also the game is really team based, most of the times the sniper camping 100m away is useless for the team. Unless you met that 1 in 1000 player that is ultra pro and just rushes everyone quickscoping headshots

[pallid blade]

giving it bullet drop isn't gonna do anything...it's just gonna be worse in every other gamemode and in power shift, people will just get used to it, kill you anyways, and the complaining is just gonna continue 😮‍💨 also is your enjoyment more important than the enjoyment of the players who like sniper? In the end you'd be taking away their enjoyment of the game...

[polar drum]

biggest issue for sniper is that its still viable regardless of range cause it can hipfire headshot for some reason

[pallid blade]

sniper isn't viable...

[polar drum]

clearly youve never played against the people who just click on heads

[fickle radish]

Removing a weapon that is annoying to everyone but who plays it is way better. A sniper can play another weapon, I can't decide to not play against them.
Anyway bullet drop would be useless, I only want it to make it viable on close range and less viable on long range. Just increase rate of fire,reduce the scope and reduce a bit the damage. The thing that there is a weapon that forces players to not play the objective of the game makes no sense to me

[polar drum]

mb that sounded aggressive

[fickle radish]

And in 200k daily players how many are them? We are talking about the average, not the exceptions

[pallid blade]

just played 2 games of power shift, just went to the objective with a heavy and they couldn't do anything...it's more of a Win more type of thing imo

[fickle radish]

As I said, they are useless but annoying. Never said that they are op

And for me something that more than being already useless is also annoying makes no sense

[pallid blade]

I just thing of them actively losing the game, most of the time tbh 😂, yes they're annoying but that doesn't warrant a nerf, specially when there's other stuff that's actually strong, healing beam, defib, shields, etc.

[fickle radish]

Plus they are annoying even if they are on your team. If they are against you win but you don't play a fun match dealing with them, and if you have them in your team it's a lost game most of the times

I'm not even talking about a nerf, Im talking about a rework. Make the weapon viable for playing the objective

[pallid blade]

How? Also I wasn't talking about you specifically, just people were talking about nerfing it...for some reason

[old palm]

when I solo Q and they both run sniper we have come in last every single time lol

its usless for obj

[fickle radish]

I already gave an idea

Might not be the best for sure, but still a better option imo

[crimson wedge]

I still want a boxcutter dagger skin to go with the cardboard set, and a scalpel dagger for how many times I need to revive my team as light

[pallid blade]

here right? the thing is, the idea of a close-range sniper is, you know, counter intuitive to what a sniper is...I'd argue this description somewhat fits the LH1

[digital saddle]

fair

[crimson wedge]

counter sniping with the LH1 is funny as hell

[fickle radish]

Yep, another reason why they never should had implemented a sniper lol

[fickle radish]

Counter sniping with pre nerf fcar was fun has hell

[crimson wedge]

the sniper glint shows through smoke so shrouding yourself and using thermal vision only works with the LH1, but also sadly smoke doesn't even half as long as the thermal vision

[pallid blade]

I mean, I disagree, simply because if it didn't have one, people would be asking for it instead

[crimson wedge]

so becoming a mist of death is a high effort but often reward less endeavor as smoke also doesn't hide you in high lumen environments such as daylight since your silhouette can still be seen when in it

[pallid blade]

would honestly like the smokes and flashes to be a bit better

[hallow current]

"OSPUZE has introduced their very own gadget! Introducing POP"

Basically a healing bomb (im thinking a soda can honestly). It gives the user a burst of healing.

If you underhand throw it, it heals people within the AOE for less healing than normal.

Maybe we get a soda can skin for it.

Maybe a bad idea idk

[fickle radish]

People complain about the dumbest things all the time. I would have preferred way more a bunch of guys crying about noth having the sniper rather than have it like now.
Also a bunch of people complaining don't really affect the game, a bad weapon does it.
Also it's already full of people asking for random weapons

[crimson wedge]

I think the smokes are fine as they are honestly, but flashbangs have enough flash but need more bang to deafen people so I can still flank around them

[digital saddle]

smokes seem to be the one item which needs a substantial buff: aoe, duration, density.

[pallid blade]

Yeah people ask for random weapons, but a sniper is a weapon type, like imagine not having pistols in the game

[fickle radish]

I really like flashes, the only thing that I don't like is that you get an hitmarker even if you don't full flash

[hallow current]

Smokes are ass honestly.

Flash bang could use a utility buff. I understand if I flash myself but I'm flashing my team mates too?? Idk.

Plus, there's hardly time to capitalize on a successful flash... I guess it's one of those gadgets that really needs good coordination...

Imagine, you blow up a wall and toss a flash, you start the fight but they get their sight back fast.... You now need to toss another flash to keep the advantage (flashing your teammates as well)

[fickle radish]

Acceptable. If the game works without it i don't see any problem. Let them cry. Game is not going to fail cause of a missing weapon

[hallow current]

Maybe they were hoping flash bangs would only be used for escapes? 🤔🤔

I never used a flash for escape but now that I think about it, I get chased as a light all the time... Maybe it is a good tool in those scenarios...

[sudden leaf]

I've thought of that too, I think it would be interesting to either replace a gadget slot or add another slot that is fouced on helping teammates. (Ex. A healing gernade or a speed gernade)

[pallid blade]

probably too slow, if you're gonna do that you're better off dropping a frag xd

[hallow current]

Yeah, flash bangs are pretty bad.

In this scenario at least I have an advantage and I can point my damage at them rather than hoping they step on the grenade I left

[hallow current]

I hope they never add or replace a gadget slot.

Keep it at 3 gadgets and 1 specialization

[pallid blade]

that's true...but if they pass it you're screwed anyways since the flash is really weak if they're looking away

[sudden leaf]

Yeah replacing a gadget slot is not a very good idea but they should add gadgets that help your teammates directly

[pallid blade]

also you can see the hitreg even when you're flashed for some reason

[hallow current]

Healing beam + Defib

[sudden leaf]

But like something other than defib (like a healing bomb)

[pallid blade]

idk about a healing bomb, aoe seems to good, maybe a dart or something

[sudden leaf]

But medium should get more stuff like defib so you at least have the option of playing "support medium"

[hallow current]

The more I think about snipers is the more I think it can stay.

Having team mates that can't snipe ruin your matches

But if they are the best they it's a different story.

Same thing for enemy teams.

The light class is built on the "glass cannon" concept. Either boom or bust.

So, if you are skilled enough you can out damage a heavy and live with your increased mobility.

Throwing knives, harder to hit than the medium class weapons but if you hit them then you have a higher TTK.

Same for the other guns. Lower mag size but if you use better positioning then you get better results and you can use the mobility again to live after a fight.

So, all this to say that I don't mind having the sniper in the game because it fits the concept.

Also, in an object game it's a limiting weapon to use for the advantage of the team.

Personally, I do think a bow and arrow would be cool though.

[pallid blade]

honestly I think there should be an internal cd for defib so you can't get res twice in a row, maybe it wouldn't be mandatory then...rn if you don't take defib if feels like you're basically trolling

[crimson wedge]

healing specialty for heavy that's a deployable that sends out 2 75 health healing pulses & a healing/debuffing 2 shot dart gun like the tracking dart for light that heals teammates for 60 over time or prevents enemies from being healed for a near equal duration

cause light is fast enough to bring a downed teammate to safety and heavy can create safety

[hallow current]

It's annoying AF to know you have to get fight an MMM team.

You know that you have to memorize your kills and hunti down the enemies before they rez each other.

Especially if they have triple beams. Omg.

[dusty torrent]

I play on console/controller so don’t listen to me at all but one thing I’ve learned as a main med solo q is that you want your load out to be to YOUR advantages not your TEAMS advantages I saw a big jump in my game when I sought out my play style rather than working around my team. That being said still play with your team but you’re not viable to the team if you’re dead.

[pallid blade]

yes, this is why I use frags instead of APS, even before the nerf, but defib is still mandatory...

[hallow current]

Some of the most obnoxious shit I see is three mediums all using triple beams Walking into a gunfight

[fleet brook]

Flash is a team gadget

[dusty torrent]

Defib will never leave for me either

[hallow current]

?

[fleet brook]

If someone could capitalize off there own flash it'd be cheeks

Flash grenade

[pallid blade]

it's not good, even considering that

[crimson wedge]

I agree, if flash was able to blind people longer or if they didn't look at it, it'd be to nuts

or if it didn't blind the user

[pallid blade]

It depends but assuming you throw 2 perfect flashes against a full team, would it be more valuable than 2 perfect frags? I'm not that convinced

[crimson wedge]

frags and flashes shouldn't be compared. one kills or wounds those near it while the other blinds and disorients those who look at it, the difference is the nearness of the grenade since flashes don't need to be near enemies: just in their line of sight.

meaning you can use flashes against people who hide behind mesh shields as where grenades can't do anything unless you get them behind

however flashes that won't hit the enemy in the eyes but detonate near them would do good with some deafening power even if only for a few seconds

[fringe flume]

Add a sticky grenade 💪🏻

[pallid blade]

Umm they absolutely should be compared, you have 3 slots to decide on, and you decide on the ones that give the most value out of their use, or you think are fun, can't do that without comparing things...on top of that they DO need to be near enemies to flash them on top of the line of sight. The mesh shield is a good example of a situation where a flash might be better since shields bounce the grenades, but glitch grenades already exist for that. So I'd like the flashing power of a flash, that's lands behind an enemy, to be a bit stronger so you can flash more consistently and increase the time a bit, 1~2 seconds maybe

[crimson wedge]

I was going to come up with a valid counterpoint but I'd be lying if I said I was bothered by flashes and not curious what would happen if they were a bit more reliable or at most unfair

[pallid blade]

Yeah, the point is making them a good option but not to the extent everyone is using them and you're perma flashed

[fleet brook]

Should deal less than the normal grenade Max damage

[radiant matrix]

as someone who uses dagger(yes i know this is the first mistake) how do i counter turrets, because the amount of damage they do is so oppressive that i cant play with them around, and i cant destroy without getting close

[fleet brook]

You're faster than they're turn/ lock on speed

[crimson wedge]

you can backstab turrets

[fleet brook]

Also glitch grenades exist for ranged options and invis

[radiant matrix]

alright, ill try getting glitch grenades them, i use dash so invis isnt an option but thanks

[crimson wedge]

as funny as a dash 180 backstab is spy tf2 invis dagger will always hold a special place in my heart

I crouch while invis to or forgo using it at all unless crossing sightlines to make the most of modern invis

[soft bridge]

goo grenades!

[crimson wedge]

goo grenade pairs good with invis, as they jump the goo and while they're looking around for you you backstab em, on dash dagger however they're better used for mobility

[radiant matrix]

mainly i use dash because of too many traumatizing moments running after someone and not being able to reach them before they turn around

[crimson wedge]

don't chase with dagger, cutoff and ambush

you should never fight head on with dagger unless your in a teamfight, as then you'll force the enemy to split their attention in fear of the instakill

[gilded shoal]

99% of how i use goo comes from healing/watching kael as they ruined a QM lobby

the traps are great, but the separation power is beyond bonkers if played well

[crimson wedge]

the dagger is the WORST weapon in concept but fun as hell where it does work. you either play it like a sledge in teamfights or you play it like a assassin who is never seen till its to late

either you play to get everyone's attention on you and off your teammates and punish those arrogant to your presence

[fleet brook]

I'm gonna be real I might uninstall untill throwing knives are changed

Pubs unplayable and I have the rank I want

[shadow onyx]

Ok, hear me out, heavy should be oneshot by dagger. Everyone complaining about how heavy is too op, they should be treated with the one shot just like the rest of us 😂

[dim onyx]

yeah but u forgot to mention the part where lights run around 1 shotting everyone with a primary that requires zero reloads and has a insane fire rate for how much damage it does. that would be like if heavies rpg was a primary and you could spam it all game. its not fun nor is it even slightly balanced

at least melee is somewhat balanced without people using exploits, but throwing knives in its current state is way too much. idk why light players think that tk crutch is a good thing. thats all it is, its a crutch. tk were fine pre buff and then the buff they got made them really good and then they got buffed again making them completely broken. at this point it has to be to draw in the tik tok brain audience for engagement or something. the only people that ive seen enjoy the throwing knives are the same people that refuse to play with their teams or leave your games or throw bc they got killed rushing in as a solo light.

[hallow current]

6 DAYS UNTIL THE NEW SEASON ‼️‼️

HUZZAH ‼️‼️🥳

[drifting loom]

in the lobby it says 8

[shadow onyx]

talking about how everyone else can get one shot by dagger, but heavy can't apparently

[fleet brook]

Because of hp difference and currently heavy is nearly dropped by dagger those few swipes aren't going to kill you

[cosmic tide]

what yall think about throwing knives in their current state

personally feel ike 157 in two shots is a little too strong especially with how quick they are

[molten current]

I Hope they Will add a burst smg, like the P90, maybe for the medium class

[hardy dust]

Throwing knives are fine as is

The ttk isn't great without headshots and you only feel like you die quicker because of the burst dmg

They're great for pubstomping tho so it's easy to complain about

[near pumice]

Goo gun v9s skin #1247567981513412698

[molten current]

I think its a good thing that they want to increase the damage of the light class, maybe light they'll remain with the same squishy life, but at least they can do enough damage to be in meta

[reef vector]

its gud

i think a deagle would be nice

not sure if it would work but i like it in other games

[opaque otter]

I would love a deagle, but how would it compare to the revolver? bigger mag size, reduced accuracy maybe capable of a higher rate of fire with increased recoil.

I was thinking maybe a mobility gadget for the heavy would cool; or just a new gadget in general. An ice throwable, slicks the floor making anything that goes over it slide. It’s be fun for moving cashout stations besides horizontally, imagine sliding the cashout station down the streets of Las Vegas. Could be countered by fire. Could combo it with the bounce pad, speed up over some ice leading up to a bounce pad on the floor making a great horizontal leap.

[restive plover]

This is a good idea. Slippery gadget is needed

[old patio]

I kinda want to see a gadget where the light turns into a prop. Would be a sneaky escape or ambush. And maybe you can like throw the light as a chair or flower pot

[sudden leaf]

Light should get a new ability that let's them phase though walls (although I do see that light would be able to effectively be able to backstabb though walls)

[ember hazel]

Throwing knives do need to be slightly nerfed - perhaps the fire rate

[wind folio]

Give S2 guns new skins, they have like 2 except lv skins

[forest gyro]

or gave them reloads/cooldown. throwing knives is basically a ranged melee without any reloads

[rough carbon]

Destiny 2 Titan Skating for the heavy

[digital saddle]

the devs stated somewhere that they where working on something like that. either in this server or in the AMA

[old patio]

oh that's awesome. Was it the reddit ama or was there also a ama on discord?

[digital saddle]

only on reddit. it read like they were already working on it/something like that

[midnight jetty]

does anyone think breaching charge needs a buff, its painfully slow :(

[last solar]

Yes, and c4

[sand monolith]

C4 is okay really

[hollow musk]

DO NOT nerf throwing knives. It is a light weapon. Literally just shoot the light, they have 150 health.

[icy swift]

I agree lights are supposed to be glass cannons and before the buff they were just glass when using the knives

[digital saddle]

well put

[fleet brook]

Glass cannon yes but I want sometime to respond before I'm melted

Just shoot the thing that melts you faster then some guns shoot (I used the KS-23)

[amber cloak]

Throwing knives are kinda busted but they probably shouldn't be nerfed

[visual pawn]

yep

[amber cloak]

The thing is, they still are a difficult weapon to use, even if the damage from them is a little ridiculous

[supple wolf]

why are throwing knives the only weapon without a tier 7 skin?

[fleet brook]

As someone who used them before (pre uninstall) they were really easy to use

[icy swift]

How many hours are y’all actually putting in to one specific weapon to hit max tier

[obsidian nexus]

the sniper being hitscan makes it horrible to play against. please make it a real bullet with travel time.

[snow isle]

hey does anyone have a link to an up -to-date ttk spreadsheet?

[obsidian nexus]

TK shouldnt be nerfed. other weapons should be buffed

[leaden tiger]

they didn't need a damage increase.

[obsidian nexus]

now atleast we have an option against Mediums and heavys.

[leaden tiger]

you mean. all of his weapons? already?

[obsidian nexus]

medium has great anti light weapons. CL and 1887. and it feels like u cant do shit against them with anything else than the m11 and xp54. now atleast there is another great option for the DPS glass cannon class.

that gets outdamaged by the tankiest class

[sharp delta]

that'd just reduce the TTK for all weapons. this game isn't CS, this games TTK is perfect except for the throwing knives

[leaden tiger]

riiiiight. gotcha. a bait post. classic.

[obsidian nexus]

uhhhhh okay dude, u can do that instead of explaining ur side. thats fine. id love to hear ur opinion

but im glad TK are a step in the right direction. i hope more weapons will follow the same path

[leaden tiger]

My side is all of Lights weapons are very good and have higher DPS than all weapons in the game.
If you think TK need to be able to 2 click mediums to be "an option"
You're absolutely delusional

[obsidian nexus]

lewi gun is more versatile than alot of lights weapons.

meanwhile we getting 2 tapped from 1887 and CL. plus the 1887 has insane range for a shotgun.

[leaden tiger]

you gotta play light correctly, not going face to face against 3 people then say he sucks.
And Lewis gun is actually broken right now since it has the same stats as the prenerfed Fcar, which, was broken as shit for almost 130 days

[obsidian nexus]

im not saying nerf everything. im just saying. the state light is in right now. its pathetic. throwing knives are a step in the right direction because the DPS class can actually do something about more tankier classes.

[leaden tiger]

and to that, I disagree, Light is already really fucking strong. He doesn't need more damage. Throwing knives are oppressive as shit right now.
The lack of reload and the 2 clicks to kill medium with no headshots is a huge nuissance

[obsidian nexus]

i think the throwing knives feel oppresive as hell because the other weapons are lacking. thus making a bigger contrast.

[sharp delta]

i use the XP, the swords, and the LH1, and all of them are absolutely capable. the TKs are braindead easy to use

[leaden tiger]

the other weapons aren't as oppressive because they reload. the knives don't.
The MP5 and the m11 kill just as fast if close enough, but if the light misses, or you have good footwork, you can make the light miss a few shots, giving you breathing room, praying he doesn't elbow you.
TK doesn't need that, they made TK's easier to land, faster, and now they hit harder.

I agreed they needed to be easier to land, but they did not need a damage increase. That's absurd

[sharp delta]

people saying that the TK is a step in the right direction are just admitting they dont know positioning and cant win fights without a hard crutch

[ornate meadow]

yoooooo JFJ a fellow medium main

[digital saddle]

this old dance routine...