💣┇weapons-gadgets

[ebon ingot]

It’s one of lights play styles. Not its purpose at all.

[tacit zinc]

Wtf barricades 🤣

[ebon ingot]

You do know light has a mountain of utility outside of the typical m11/xp stun gun invis build right? All wall hack options, GATEWAY which is OP, glitch nades, etc. Light is way more than just flank and go for kills all the time.

80% of my play time is on light and I’ve got about 600 hrs

[gusty relic]

Then what else are you supposed to do with 150 hp, it’s so easy to die if you don’t flank

[soft shale]

You always had glitch grenades to do that. They're AoE weapons, meaning they're more efficient against stacked teams than the single-target stun gun. And they've even been buffed slightly now, since from my understanding, they will now insta-disable shields on impact AND still go through them.

Since HHM/HMM/MMM teams usually play packed together, glitch grenades have the potential to leave them very vulnerable (no shields, healing or defib) for a full 5 seconds. Add a grenade on top of that, and you'll often leave 2-3 players with very low HP. Easy kills with the XP54/M11/LH1.

And I fully agree with @ebon ingot, I personally played Light a lot recently, training in casual modes to eventually play it in Ranked at some point. Never used invis/stun gun. My loadout: dash, XP54/LH1 depending on maps, frags, glitch, sonar.

The amount of damage you can deal with this kit is just insane, especially with good team mates. I really don't understand Light mains who argue that invis/stun were the only two things making the class playable.

[ebon ingot]

Use the lh1, sniper and play range or learn how to disengage from fights you can’t win. Lights not a face tank class, it’s hit and run. Try grapple out! It’s really under used and a great escape.

At first, you’ll probably put the lh1 down since it’s hard to use. Or maybe throw down the sniper because you die too often with it. Just pick one and stick with it and eventually you’ll start doing well again. Invis stun gun was the most brain dead easy way to play light that most people abused. Learn how to play light in a way that helps your TEAM by taking off angles and pressuring with RANGE and applying utility wherever you can.

[soft shale]

The thing is, many Light players have been used to beeing able to run straight at enemy players and beam them. So they fail at adapting to the recent nerfs because their playstyle was bad from the start.

I manage to achieve great survivability with dash, because I can very easily strafe, peak in and out of cover, dodge, escape fights I can't win by jumping two buildings away from the enemy, or take better positions in an instant.

[sturdy radish]

Nerf sword

[ebon ingot]

Totally agree. Time to learn how to properly play light instead of cheese the same crutch.

[gusty relic]

Range goes against my play style because I like to play aggressively and clock perfectly fit that play style and plus xp/m11 both are meant for more aggressive players which is right up my alley

[ebon ingot]

Learn dodge then.

[gusty relic]

I already know how to use dodge but clock is easier since I’m on console

[soft shale]

Most Light players I've seen run around with the stun gun at all times, and will even stun enemies that have very low HP, when they could have killed them faster by just shooting with their main gun.

When people overuse a gadget so much that they're not clever about it anymore, there's definitely something wrong.

[mellow lodge]

rpg moment

[ebon ingot]

Use dodge and vanish bomb if you still need invis. Hit and run. Maybe don’t try to mag dump a heavy in one go. Dump half, when he reacts run away and seek to hit him from a different angle. Play smarter

[soft shale]

As I've been playing Light quite a lot recently, I do agree that the RPG is used by Heavies in a similar fashion, and can be very frustrating too.

When playing Heavy I also sometimes use my RPG as my "oh shit" panic button when I'm isolated and surprised by a Light player, but I rarely ever run around the whole map with the RPG ready. It's much better used to deal AoE damage to several players. Using it on a single Light feels like a waste.

[soft shale]

This is actually how I win most of my fights. Hit the enemy, strafe laterally to dodge return fire and keep hitting that enemy, or dash behind cover, reload, then dash again from the same spot or a different spot to finish off the enemy.

[gusty relic]

Funny enough that would be how I would approach things if they didn’t nerf clock to the ground

[soft shale]

The only time when I manage to beam an opponent without moving is if I'm behind him and he is unaware. Otherwise, head on fights cannot be won if you try to out-DPS a Medium or Heavy in one blow.

[ebon ingot]

the dash makes that play style 1000x better... cloak gave no movement.

[soft shale]

You don't have the HP to tank any return fire, so you should never expect to survive any head-on fight.

Dash is definitely the most satisfying spec of the three IMO.

It also makes it far easier to reach your team mates quickly if they need support or a revive.

[gusty relic]

Again like I said clock fits my play style

[soft shale]

Vanishing bombs + dash would be far more efficient than cloak on its own, but it's up to you to step up your game.

[native niche]

but people want insta-kills xD

[ebon ingot]

fr

[native niche]

This is what allowing you to have a respawn does to gameplay. People lose their tactical perspective. I'm really excited to see how terminal attack plays out!

[soft shale]

None of the classes can get easy kills against decent players without moving, making smart use of cover, knowing when to pick/reset fights, and so on.

Even Heavies with 350hp get beamed by semi decent players if they just sit still in the open trying to out-DPS everyone.

I mainly use the M60, it's a beast at close/medium range especially when enemies are stacked together because you will hit them a lot.

But its damage per hit/recoil make it mediocre beyond mid range. So I learned how to pick fights that I could win with my weapon.

[pseudo island]

Another game left due to a hacker another win lost off my stats.

[soft shale]

Playing sledge/flamethrower actually improved my awareness quite a lot, as you must play cat and mouse with the enemy to get within range, otherwise you'll die very often.

And that knowledge transitioned quite well to playing Light, where you have to play cat and mouse AT ALL TIMES because despite having the range to hit enemies, you can't withstand return fire.

[gusty relic]

Again dash is hard to use on console and since movement is hard for me to use on console, clock comes in to play perfectly

[arctic fog]

Does stun gun still interrupt cash outs??

[soft shale]

I can understand that, but there has always been and always will be a gap between controller/mouse & keyboard players in any FPS.

Cloaking device was not meant to fill in that gap by giving console players a way to beat PC players, despite being less good at the game (due to hardware limitations).

Invis/stun gun combo allowed many players (console or PC) to play like a** by rushing alone straight at the enemy.

Now many of them who got used to it are discovering the hard way that they weren't as good as they thought with that class.

[ebon ingot]

yes, it still interrupts

[restive plover]

SNIPER - - The sniper reticle (scope light) should be more flashing and striking. 🤌

[analog terrace]

does someone know how to get the jacket of the "terminal attack" event? I mean the one you get after playing 10 rounds? it says that I was rewarded but i cant find it in my "wardrobe"

[last solar]

Dang the patch notes are really disappointing, like yeah big nerf for the stun gun and fcar just got replaced with the ak and there's no real new meta. I hoped for buff for the famas revolver light burst pistol and the slug shotgun

[slim linden]

NEW STATS ARE LIVE!

[earnest spire]

@slim linden where did you find those values at would love to see other guns etc

[analog terrace]

he is a developer

[slim linden]

Check the links in my profile

[dusk charm]

whats the recent nerfs?

oh todays ones, they already flopping now lel?

[honest willow]

you could you know not be in the front lines and shoot from behind a mesh

[chilly solstice]

What are the changes to stun?

[trim jacinth]

Basically just uninstall stun gun

[soft shale]

In short it now only immobilizes the target (also preventing steals)

[chilly solstice]

So it’s useless

Like most light things

[soft shale]

Glitch/sonar are not useless. 🤷🏻

[restive plover]

He did say "most."

[earnest spire]

Thank you 😄

[trim jacinth]

The fact that it doesn't disable abilities and equipment usage killed it completely, heavy can just turn around to rpg u while medium can ads u down with fcar

[narrow parrot]

Glitch so good against heavy’s rn

[soft shale]

Yeah, because it should not guarantee an easy kill.

Lots of Light players have been overusing the stun gun all game every game since S1. And now all of them go surprise pikachu face when their extremely annoying gimmick gets a nerf. I'm not surprised. I saw it coming for months.

[fading crater]

whats famas stats?

[soft shale]

You could argue that the RPG is similar, and in a way it is, but it has been nerfed already.

[sullen tree]

yeah, cause you whinged about it for months, lmfao

[hollow plover]

hi

[glacial oyster]

Went the way of c4

[soft shale]

LMAO. No. And Light players are like 80% of all the complaints I read here daily. SMH.

[trim jacinth]

C4 is still pretty much usable

[sullen tree]

wow, might say something about how ass the class is

[trim jacinth]

Stun gun is completely unusable

So it's one free light slot for other equipment

This prove how much of an over nerf the stun gun got

[soft shale]

I've been playing this game enough to know that most Light players are ass themselves.

[spare spindle]

This update was a net positive for light in competitive idk why everyone thinks otherwise

[sullen tree]

lmfao, calls light players ass.

is ass enough at hipfiring that stun is a genuine issue for them.

alright

[soft shale]

Yeah, same old argument.

[spare spindle]

Stungun still stops steals and slows movement. It’s honestly fine

[sullen tree]

it's old cause it's true

[tawdry elbow]

[soft shale]

Let's keep something that everyone finds toxic/annoying to play against unchanged to cater to the group of people who suck so much at shooters that they need invis/stun to get a kill.

Once again, I run neither, and I stack up kills just fine.

You should try someday.

[sullen tree]

good for you, neither do I.

[spare spindle]

They could not nerf fcar and keep stungun the same lol that would be a horrid idea

[trim jacinth]

Yeah it's only used for that one situation, when do u hear the light turn on the comms to the team saying, hey wait them tap the defuse I'll stun them

[soft shale]

So what's the matter then ?

[spare spindle]

Is this a genuine question or sarcasm because that happens all the time in my 3 stack

[sullen tree]

I can look at stuff other than the stuff I use getting nerfed, and go "wow, that's not a good change"

[trim jacinth]

The case where u usually disable the defuse is when your whole team is dead and u need to clutch

[sullen tree]

like, if they let you ADS, it would've been enough of a nerf

[spare spindle]

Stunning someone mid teamfight is also incredibly important

[sullen tree]

most lights used it so they didn't just get insta-RPGed by a heavy

[spare spindle]

As well as when there are multiple teams attacking your cashout

[trim jacinth]

Y stun them when u can shoot them

Your teammate is already engage drawing the enemy fire, u want to stun them then pull out your weapon? That's a few mini sec of delay

That few mini sec could mean death for your teammate or survive

[spare spindle]

I would much rather completely disable someone’s movement in 1 shot than do 50-100 damage before going back into cover

Stun gun is 1 gadget, it’s not meant to destroy whoever it hits

1 of the 9 gadgets your team has. It should not have been that strong

[trim jacinth]

It doesn't disable ads anymore, stunning them only slow their movement

[glacial oyster]

Doesn’t disable abilities anymore, light dashes to cover, heavy puts up shield, medium puts down jump pad

[trim jacinth]

It doesn't stop the DPS that they are currently outputting towards your teammate

[glacial oyster]

Kinda useless now

[spare spindle]

That is a good thing. forcing ADS was too rng reliant and unhealthy for competitive

[trim jacinth]

The main strong point of stun gun was that it disable ads and works like a glitch

[spare spindle]

Stun gun still stops steals, disables movement, and drops the vault from their hands.

[trim jacinth]

By removing both the strong point just uninstall it completely

U don't ever complain about the slowness of the stun gun cause you're already dead

The slowness doesn't kill u, the disable it bring does

[spare spindle]

The slow effect is amazing in team fights what

[sullen tree]

ah yes, now I can steal the vault, beat the classes who don't need movement with an RPG, and get denied the steal non-lethally (literally the only good thing about it now)

[spare spindle]

Literally just a target standing completely still

[sullen tree]

it has genuinely become another gadget that is just "fuck lights"

heavies hardly have to move in the first place, mediums barely have to.

The effect also lasts way too short to actually disable the person

[spare spindle]

What do you mean don’t need movement?? Try standing still in teamfights and lmk how that works out

[sullen tree]

I'm a light player, I know how that works out

[spare spindle]

Stungun is probably the least effective against lights now what 😭

[sullen tree]

light has:

no good gadgets for dealing damage

guns that get outdpsed if they're not moving like crack while hitting every shot

I guess the specalizations might keep them alive tho, unless they're running invis

[spare spindle]

Light does not need good damage gadgets

[trim jacinth]

Start a global poll, this discussion will go no where, from a design perspective, it's an over nerf, they will need to rework it

[spare spindle]

You are much better off just shooting a light rather than stunning them

[honest willow]

Breach charge? All the grenades?
Invis has been great at keeping me alive as light in ranked.

[sullen tree]

breach charge cannot do damage ever since they removed the suicide bomb tech.

Frags take way too long.

we're talking about a situation where you're stunned with the new and destroyed stungun

[spare spindle]

Yeah frags take too long to use while the gutted stungun leaves you super vulnerable. Please buff the stun

[trim jacinth]

There are many other ways for light to be effective, including other equipment such as pre nades, sonar for info, breach for fishing, gateway for fast transport

[remote sable]

i'm an advocate for stun nerfs but being able to use specializations is honestly absurd and negates a lot of the stun's usage

aim down sights, crouching, gadgets, sure, but the ability to charge n targe and dash away immediately from being tazed is honestly too obnoxious

like i as a light-dash can literally dash away while i'm stunned

[honest willow]

Breach charge can still damage players tho no?
I don't think many people really think about stunning lights. I agree with the guy above who said you'd be better off shooting a light than stunning them. Regardless, I do think stun nerf was a little too harsh.
But when I play light I rarely use stun for a kill anyway, I use it to stop steals. Especially with the extended range that stun has now, it would be great for camping far from the cashout.

[spare spindle]

You are effectively taking someone out of a teamfight for the duration of the stun because if they are not using their abilities to defend themselves then they will die. Just because the stun guns value isn’t a free kill doesn’t mean it’s useless

[trim jacinth]

The ones who agree that the stun nerf are good, do u even stick to your team?

[spare spindle]

Yes that’s why it’s good

[trim jacinth]

If u are sticking to your team and playing the game right, it isn't an issue

[sullen tree]

I never use stun, and I can still see it sucks

[spare spindle]

I play light with my team and stun is amazing in teamfights

Moving light to be more teamfight oriented rather than 1v1 is a great step in the right direction

[honest willow]

It's pretty great for stopping steals. I would occasionally use it for kills, but steal stopping is the main purpose imo

[remote sable]

if you can use your specialization, you're never really taken out of a team fight at all

[spare spindle]

Once rpg is nerfed (2025) light will be on a very even playing field with the other classes

[spare spindle]

Forcing a heavy to hold mesh up for the entire duration of the stun seems pretty useful

[remote sable]

in theory it is

[spare spindle]

I used it today in diamond ranked 3 stacks. It is useful in practice as well

The value is harder to see I get that. But it is definitely still there

[remote sable]

i just don't think specializations should be usable, that's really it
i don't think i'm asking too much with that

when you have mobility oriented gadgets that can invalidate the mobility locker, it's kind of useless

[spare spindle]

I’m gonna be honest, that would nerf light more than heavy or medium

Light can completely get away from the fight while stunned. Heavy has to stand there with a shield out and medium really can’t do anything. Light would be hurt the most if you couldn’t use specials

Especially considering the heavy could still use a dome shield while stunned or barricades

It would also bring back the issue of just completely screwing over melee weapons

[rotund tree]

We need crossbow, bow, and boomerang

[spare spindle]

From what I’ve seen and played with so far, stun is still strong. I think people should wait a little bit before saying it’s dead. Finals players notoriously overreact to nerfs like they did with the Lewis gun and everything else that’s been nerfed on heavy

[restive plover]

d

[trim jacinth]

It's dead, when they rebuff it or rework it, u can visit this comment again, u do not need to go close to 16m with 150hp to slow down a target

There are other better light equipments that will replace that slot

[restive plover]

sorry in advance

[spare spindle]

16m is not close 😭

I’m literally using the stungun in diamond rn it’s perfectly fine. Play with your team

[restive plover]

test

i love the new gadgets

[remote sable]

please revert the shield and glitch grenade interaction change. having the grenades phase through the shields makes playing powershift an absolute nightmare. i can't counter heavy + aps turrets at all where before i would like to glitch the shields and snipe the turrets

now every glitch grenade gets completely consumed by the aps and the heavies will purposefully protect the aps the most. it's unwinnable

this is basically every interaction i have with the objective now, down to the second aps being placed immediately after me needing to almost die to destroy it

[fleet brook]

We got new gadgets?

[restive plover]

No

[native isle]

In some ways, we got new gadgets every week lol

[fleet brook]

Light is actually decent in the new mode

[native isle]

Have to avoid mines and turrets

[spare lion]

what all guns are considered as marksman rifles or handguns??

[native isle]

Light lh1

[slender wind]

any gun that sits in one hand i believe

[restive plover]

Lh1 and v9s. Medium's revolver does not count.

[native isle]

The 93R isn't a handgun. That's weird

[tepid spindle]

What you guys think about switching the sonar grenade from the light class to the heavy class and in return the motion sensor to the light class?

[hallow leaf]

it does

[native isle]

I think sonar grenade gives back to the medium class better.

Light have thermal vision ,heavy have motion sensor,only medium...

devs has been deliberately reducing the detection ability of the medium

🥲

[robust flower]

Is it me or does medium and heavy need more wepons

[naive iris]

Thermal is pretty bad right now cuz lights who go invisible and simply recloak cant be seen in vision plus cooldown long as hell

[crude loom]

Bro medium does not need more stuff?

[tacit zinc]

you really did shit with the barricades, go back

we can no longer obstruct a staircase or a corridor of a house, the barricade is too big and does not want to position itself

[fleet brook]

Motion sensor sucks tbf

[next chasm]

Duno still new to the game

[fleet brook]

Tbf I think light has the most stuff

I think from most to least it goes

Light

Medium

Heavy

[arctic fog]

I think the patch is kinda disappointing. There was such a buildup and even though we got some cool stuff, balancing was not on point.

[tepid spindle]

my thinking behind this question is:
light has the most mobility right? So giving the class a stationary detection option is okey. (and light has still the dart gadget as second option)
heavy in comparison is kinda slow. A ranged detection option could be interesting.

[torn mantle]

Light has glitch, sonar and dart right? But light also doesn't have either one of 3 mine types, medium also having data reshape and aps. Or am I wrong?

[primal stump]

i'd like to see Light have a 'stim shot' type of specialization. One stim shot that let's you instant regen. Maybe a 10-15sec cooldown to use it again. It'll make them way more valuable in ranked

[dire dragon]

but wont 15 seconds be too quick of a cooldown

[sullen tree]

in practice we have the least.

especially the least love from the devs

[primal stump]

maybe 20-30. I don't think it should be something a Light can spam, but something that can put them back on obj without having to sit in a corner to regen for 10min lol

[dire dragon]

yeah instant regen would also come in clutch situations

[primal stump]

Light just needs something to make them more practical in ranked. Ideally i would think the best meta is LMH. Since launch it's been MMH and MHH...

[ember wasp]

Okay so I’m not the only one having the issue of light being difficult like I get the point of light and how to play them but you have to be pixel perfect or you’re dead, like they have zero survivability and have really only one reliable gun

[primal stump]

yeah i'm sure it's a universal experience. Light is great when it's a 3v3, but it becomes a major issue playing Light in the 3v3v3v3 with every team running MMH/MHH

[arctic fog]

I miss cloak as it was 😔

[primal stump]

Either they should have native faster health regen or a specialization like a stim shot that provides faster health regen over a time. Or maybe give light defib? something...

[fast raven]

what has a lower ttk now? The fcar or the ak?

[lament sail]

Good Questions... FCAR has 25 round mag but 22 damage a bullet.Thats 550 Damage whats the AK? (I dont know the time it takes to empty a mag)

[fast raven]

yea i may just have to wait until someone does the math. I have no clue how to calculate it

[ember wasp]

Actually I’d just say impossible for casual players who aren’t super competitive/sweaty

[restive plover]

Ak has 720.

AKM vs FCAR
Weapon : AKM : FCAR
Build : Medium : Medium
Type : Gun : Gun

Magazine Size : 36 : 25
Reload Speed : 2.35s : 2.15s
RPM : 600 : 540

Body Damage : 20 : 22
Crit Multiplier : 1.5 : 1.5
Crit Damage : 30.0 : 33.0

Body STK Light : 8 : 7
Body TTK Light : 0.7s : 0.67s
Crit TTK Light : 0.4s : 0.44s

Body STK Medium : 13 : 12
Body TTK Medium : 1.2s : 1.22s
Crit TTK Medium : 0.8s : 0.78s

Body STK Heavy : 18 : 16
Body TTK Heavy : 1.7s : 1.67s
Crit TTK Heavy : 1.1s : 1.11s

fcar dead

[fast raven]

appreciate it, mind me asking where you got the information from?

[restive plover]

gotcha private message

that 0.01 ttk < 36 mag

[fast raven]

Thanks 🙂

[digital saddle]

the one nice debuff. both weapons should be close in ttk, but handle differently.

[sullen tree]

You're selling embark's light hatred a bit short there.

It was also MMH and MHH in all the betas

[plain sorrel]

does the new update kill the goo tech?

[red dove]

Yo did the dagger front stab tech get patched out?

[winter phoenix]

So since people never stop talking in finals chat I’ll ask here, was it intended that a glitch grenade doesn’t take out shields with 1 grenade?

*in the event I mean

[tired rapids]

if you're talking about barricade goo launch then yes

[maiden spindle]

Does anyone understand how non damaging gadget exp works? For instance, I used the data reshaper to reshape a fair few mines, turrets, and canisters in a match, but barely got any exp for it

[tired rapids]

nah just dagger broken right now with backstabs

[fleet brook]

It's set per use

Like 25 per use of the data reshaper

[maiden spindle]

Makes sense, and for something like the gateways, do you gain xp for placing them, Teleporting, or both?

[lean thicket]

Damn i was wondering why i could barely backstab anyone while dashing. I was so consistent before the update too

[tired rapids]

yup you kinda can't backstab at all

[red dove]

I loved dagger, its what kept me on this game and now they took it away from me ;-;

[hazy spoke]

1st of all, make daggers left klick to deal 63 damage so it can kill m with 4 hits and h with 6 instead of 5 and 7. 2nd undo the aim assist change and delete aim assist completely or at least less than it was before the patch

[tired rapids]

stop copy pasting your message into multiple channels

[lean thicket]

Same...

[hazy spoke]

bro 2 channels they need to see this shit

[red dove]

doesnt mean u need to spam it brother

[tired rapids]

You do realize you can turn off aim assist and configure it with the new pat h right ?

[sullen tree]

Yea, they sent it straight to hell.

Even if the backstab actually shows up as a gold hit on their back, you still get it registering as a frontstab

(Credit to @restive plover for the clips)

[hazy spoke]

tell me more😂

[lean thicket]

I was testing earlier, like seriously... The times I would usually hit my backstabs just doesnt happen

[sullen tree]

Yep, and even when the hit shows up on the enemy's back, it doesn't count

[eternal quarry]

melee is just uncontrollable now i tried to just hit someone as they jumped and i just went flying off an edge

[river galleon]

Food for thought, What if we added a sticky grenade launcher to the game ?

[cosmic tide]

honestly i wish the aps turret had a wider range, but had a limited amount of grenades it could stop, like jaeger from r6

[daring kiln]

what is the new base damage for the FCAR?

[cosmic tide]

22

[daring kiln]

dang

[cosmic tide]

it doesn't feel too much worse, if you hit your shots it is still good, just not as good as it was before

still at least an A tier option if you can aim

[red dove]

They should like make light a legit good class

[daring kiln]

yeah but the ak has base damage of 20 and a larger mag

[cosmic tide]

i did not say it was the best still, i just said it is still a solid option

[soft juniper]

ok hear me out the amipity to attach Breach and C4 to enamys

[swift cradle]

Dash is just as ratty of a playstyle as cloak. Arguably moreso since you're unable to stay in the fight if you take dmg and want to wait for regen. And god forbit you're chased. You spend more time trying to re position.

Cloak/stun isn't much more cheesy and annoying than getting oneshot by an Rpg tbh.

[slim linden]

@daring kiln @cosmic tide

[dapper bear]

They should make the riot baton throwable, if you hold the button for long enough and your not in striking distance it will wind up like the saber and then throw the baton like a throwing knife, and hit for 100 or so damage, and you regain the baton when the first baton lands on something. it would make the the weapon more viable, sense the medium doesn't have the destruction and health of heavy nore the speed of light to make the riot shield stand on its own, either that or they should make the riot sheild cover more area, because the riot shield berrelly blocks anything outside of chest fire, and sometimes bullets just go through the shield.

[cosmic tide]

why am i being @ 😭 , idc i only responded because bro doesn't know how to read

[soft shale]

I feel like the barricade nerf really hurt the M60. As its recoil becomes more stable the more you shoot, barricades offered much needed protection to be able to fire long bursts. And it only really worked well when firing at targets that were either level or higher up than you were.

After trying the Lewis again to compare, it feels much more efficient all around. It doesn't surprise me that most Heavies in ranked run it rather than the M60. But I don't really know what could be done to bring the two LMGs more in line with each other, without resorting to the nerf hammer, or making the M60 too strong.

[magic moth]

HEAVY = DEAGLE Make it happen!

[coral bolt]

i dont understand the change to the invis bomb can someone pls explain

[arctic fog]

Basically cloaked players are easier to see while moving.

[ocean mountain]

[spark pivot]

I find heavy’s weapons so boring compared to light and medium anyone else feel the same

[native yacht]

Hi all, please tell me who knows, on the light class when you use invisibility and do not move you are visible or not?

[final lotus]

You are still visible but extremely hard to see compared to when moving.

[native yacht]

THX

[supple oracle]

Anyone has images of the new barricade?

cant boot up the game now

i heard they became comically large

[elder canopy]

They did

[gloomy nacelle]

It’s same as before. Extremely hard t see and make little noise when standing still

Are glitch nades bugged r something I feel like they don’t back bubbles half the time now

[exotic skiff]

https://www.twitch.tv/piggyxdd/clip/BombasticIcyAsparagusDogFace-Xa11omMXKMUppwY2?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time

They need to have LOS on the ball in the center to work

[rough carbon]

new barricade change is secretly a sniper nerf for power shift

[tacit zinc]

Barricade sucks now

[edgy bison]

The dagger don’t dagger no more riot is op it needs a nerf too

[quiet sundial]

does anyone know exactly how long a cashout takes?

[magic minnow]

I know you need like 6 seconds to steal it, online i found its 2 min 10 sec

[quiet sundial]

thx

[rain geyser]

4 more damage and I'd be happier
It's in pretty bad need of some utility but I wouldn't want either of those two changes
Having it remove mines was actually a really nice "feature" and gave it some utility which was nice

They keep taking things away from us 😭

[umbral kraken]

not exactly a weapon/gadget, but goo barrels....
i constantly throw them, expecting them to land and create a horizontal line to block an area off....instead the barrel does a vertical line, trapping me in the good, and destroying most of the goo in the process, why does this keep happening? It seems to do it regardless of whether I'm standing still or jumping in the air

[rain geyser]

I think it depends on whether the surroundings are obstructed where the goo lands

[umbral kraken]

its just so annoying

[crude loom]

If light gets a new special, I think a cool one could be the ability to wall run and jump, maybe like claws come out of their hands? And possibly a movement speed buff when using it? But no weapons or gadgets while it’s active (it would be for mostly getting out of fights fast)

[red dove]

Please make dagger good again embark😭

[hollow fox]

ik, its literally unusable now! I thought i was going crazy for the first day the patch was out

[red dove]

No front stab tech, looks like the dagger is really a waste of a weapon slot

[mellow lodge]

you can barely backstab dash as well

[red dove]

I saw, hell i even see the hit reg on the back and it still counts as front

[umbral kraken]

I mean, the front stab thing wasn't supposed to be a thing xD
But I understand the other concerns

[formal knot]

Hey, yall, I'm trying to do the pro circuit, but I don't understand what the light submachine guns are. Cause I'm using light smg, but the damage counter doesn't go up.

[chilly solstice]

It’s the 2 heavy lmgs

[formal knot]

Ohhh, ty !

[wise briar]

Would love to have a dessert eagle for M

[glass raptor]

We already have the revolver, chances of a de is next to none

[wise briar]

We also already have an AKM. But we got 2 more assault rifles anyway

Meh. They're probably just gonna re-skin it anyway

[sand monolith]

What would a DE do differently from a revolver in terms of gameplay though

[soft shale]

Like in any other game where both are available. Slightly more rounds, tremendous recoil and less damage per hit to balance. So pretty much nothing.

[foggy snow]

what's wild to me is that the new weapons still didn't get buffed

all of them are well-known to be worse than the meta weapons by a large margin

93R ESPECIALLY needs help

it kills slower than the goddamn LH1 (which excels at further ranges), and is punishing for partially missed bursts

[soft shale]

I agree. I rarely see it used. If you want to play with a pistol, the V9S seems to be a far better pick.

[halcyon acorn]

ya the 93r is super weak

[sand monolith]

93r is weird like what is its niche supposed to be

[rough carbon]

Heavy should get the d50, or maybe an m16 pistol with drum mag lol

[karmic leaf]

It seems like Stun Gun is currently bugged/nerfed? Evasive Dash seems to be usable under the effects of it.

[fickle radish]

Nerfed

[restive plover]

Nerfed out of existence. Neither gadgets nor specializations are affected by stun anymore.

[wise briar]

I literally just said its probably gonna be re-skinned instead.

[sand monolith]

oh didnt see. yeah that would be a good idea

[halcyon acorn]

the CL40 needs one more shot

[hallow leaf]

if it needs anything its a nerf

[karmic leaf]

thanks for the heads up

[halcyon acorn]

lower the damage but give it 5 shots instead of 4

[wise briar]

I highly doubt H will ever get any puny weapons at all. Probably an old school rotating gatling gun at most at one point. But pistols? Not a chance

[rough carbon]

It's still effective I saw someone rocking it yesterday

[restive plover]

Sadly that stun gun doesn't stop from stealing Cashout anymore right?

[rough carbon]

I think it does still

[potent ledge]

Damn, I havent played yet, because im not home

[candid prairie]

It still does I got hit with it yesterday

[blissful steppe]

Stun gun is still alright IMO, it messes up the aim and movement, and range was buffed. Maybe they should just add back stopping gadget use, but that's debatable imo

[upbeat pewter]

OH WAIT what they did to the stun gun? 🥺

[copper sinew]

An idea I had today was to make it lock manual swapping. So if you already have a gadget pulled out you can't pull out other gadgets or weapons, but if you use it fast enough you will swap to your weapon after you run out of the gadget.

That would probably need to see some testing on the live servers to see if that was ok, with the amount of variance in the game, but if it was too much I would just bring back stun blocking all gadgets and specs, coz right now it seems kinda weak to me, unless you get a jump on someone.

[worn flicker]

Anybody have a link to the latest TTK/Mag stats?

[wise briar]

They fixed it hehe

[elder cloud]

if you voted no you are the definition of skill issue

[potent ledge]

I don't vote on my own poll's

[fleet brook]

Saying no means a skill issue?

[elder cloud]

my brother for the second time i love you, i’m not talking about you

[carmine drum]

what if you voted no but dont use it

[elder cloud]

assuming you are speaking from an outside perspective i would say so

[elder cloud]

well if you voted no means you are still getting killed from it and if you are still getting killed then yes its a skill issue

[carmine drum]

what if i just play the game for casual

[honest willow]

Bow weapon would be cool x)

[naive tinsel]

using the stun gun in general is a skill issue tbh

[honest willow]

maybe one of those hand crossbows for light, regular bow for med, and crossbow for heavy

[arctic fog]

What if grapple could also pull people towards you.

[elder cloud]

brother u just aim and shoot like normal?

[carmine drum]

sometimes i dont even turn on my monitor

[elder cloud]

could say the same argument for other gadgets.. i agree that it was a very strong gadget and needed a change but as a 150hp rat with LH1 whose hipfire is atrocious i was still able to kill them while stunned and they only stunned me if they caught me off guard, not playing with my team

[gloomy mulch]

ok so hear me out hear, like a lite thing that like parries projectiles or smthn, a crossbow for light as the other guy said would be cool, maybe some kind of wallrun type shit would be cool, etc

[naive tinsel]

nah. The stun gun literally made it so you couldn't move, can't use your gadgets, can't even ADS, and lasted for like what, 15 seconds? Basically you were a sitting duck. Thing just spoon fed you kills. Im glad its useless now cause imho, something like that shouldn't be in the game anyhow. It's bs to play against

[elder cloud]

half my argument was me describing how as one of its worst matchup i was still able to handle them? again i agree it was strong but annoying doesnt mean OP, rpg is annoying, so is defib are they op?

[gloomy mulch]

not 15, but like its theres still counter play, rpg is a similar problem, i disagree with defib but u get my point

[naive tinsel]

Defib was a bit op at the beginning but now its fine. I agree with the changes

Rpg though I disagree.

[sullen tree]

It could 1-shot lights.

Even now, A heavy who opens a fight with it is assurred to win that fight, assuming they're not incredibly horribly incompetent.

[elder cloud]

bro you are missing the point, i have no quarrel with rpg nor defib just wanted to use them as examples.. what i believe is that is a literal skill issue if you cant atleast handle half the times you got stun

[sullen tree]

True, say what you will about stun, but the way to counter it was by being half decent at hipfiring.

Rpg is just like, 80HP gone, minimum

While fighting the most Tanky class in the game

Now THAT'S starting a fight at disadvantage

[naive tinsel]

Which is a sign that you should NOT engage with a heavy as a light. Light is supposed to be a glass cannon. Heavy is a big destructive force. It makes sense

[restive plover]

They ruined the game change my mind

[elder cloud]

reading comprehension level: 1st grade

[sullen tree]

Even as another heavy, Or as a medium. 80 to 140 HP gone is a MASSIVE disadvantage.

A lot of heavy players get caught up on this idea that they should be some big bad raid boss, ever since launch. Then throw a fit when their class isn't literally demigod tier anymore.

It's frankly annoying.

Even when I dodge out of the way as a light, I still get pinged for 80 damage.

Additionally Heavies run around with it out 24/7 if they know what's good for them. What do you expect me to do when I do engage, no matter how sneaky? Speedblitz them?

I remember when they nerfed RPG JUST enough that it couldn't instakill a full HP light, and heavy chat melted down.

Like, jesus christ.

[soft shale]

Stunned while low on ammo/reloading: guaranteed death.

Stunned with weapons that have bad hipfiring accuracy: death, or survival by mere luck.

Stunned with weapons that have good hipfiring accuracy: death or survival by out-skilling your opponent (you were immobile and inaccurate, while he had 100% mobility and accuracy).

I don't see how you could call that fair, or at least a good game mechanic.

[fleet brook]

Then stop playing it ?

[ornate furnace]

unironically I agree with sadlad even if you're not supposed to fight a heavy head on its literally impossible, you being light means you're a prime target for an rpg to blow you up and say fuck you, and light isn't a glass cannon right now its just glass, in the new terminal attack mode it actually MAKES light feel strong because half of the shit in the game that made light hard to play is out of the game mode making it an equal playing field

you have no way to actually counter heavies now since stun gun is just a minor inconvenience for anyone

[restive plover]

@fleet brook couldn’t change my mind tho rip

[fleet brook]

Well even if you die the DPs you dish out effectively takes someone out for the entire round which sucks

[ornate furnace]

how does that suck??

have you not played Rainbow six 😭 thats the entire point of the game

[fleet brook]

Wasn't the goal the goal was

If you think a game sucks don't play it why waste your time on a game you think is bad when there's thousand's of good ones

[sullen tree]

Shot at while reloading (you're gonna die anyways)

Stunned with a precision weapon (actually has decent hipfire at 12 meters)

Stunned with weapons that have good hipfire accuracy (you probably have at least 100 more HP vs the light you're facing. A full 2/3rds more HP. Just shoot them, you will kill them before they can kill you.)

[restive plover]

Heavy is op light is useless

[ornate furnace]

I love how the emphasized that nerfing stun gave people a "fair fight" against a 150 hp class

[fleet brook]

One I love R6 2 R6 has doc and finka and Thunderbird and one shot headshot so your health doesn't matter past like silver

[ornate furnace]

casual players really need the coughing baby to stand no chance against their nukes

[copper sinew]

Well, you could say the same thing about grenades, just hit a heavy with one before fighting, you even get two tries, might hit with both and both of them recharge before the rpg does. And like yeah it is easier to hit with an rpg. I am half-joking here, but there are tools for you to soften up heavies before you fight them so why shouldn't they have one.

I don't think rpg's damage is too much, especially with how hard it is to deal the full damage, I only usually take around the 80-70 mark, while it feels pretty easy to kill mediums with two good nades or a nade and some shots.

I could see a nerf to pull out and holster speeds so you have to commit to using the rpg, but that would basically write it off as a fight opener, which it still usually is.

Moreso if you flank well with light you should engage the heavy as he has already fired his shot at your teammates.

If you are the one opening most of the fights, especially the more stanoffish types, not the "we caught them on the way" types you are probably playing the class wrong

[fleet brook]

Oh yeah and ttk in r6 if you're not shot in the head and your playing cover will give you time to duck again

[sullen tree]

The frag is way harder. Most people at higher levels have enough gamesense to notice a frag incoming.

[fleet brook]

Meanwhile in the finals its a pretty much who shoots first and a weapon check

[copper sinew]

well you should have enough game sense to expect an rpg and try to bait it before actually engaging. I have menaged to block/dodge them multiple times with goo either from grenades or canisters, by closing the doors or pinging with single bullets and hiding

[ornate furnace]

Idk, terminal attack shows the flaws of the other classes because it kinda makes 0 sense that light somehow becomes strong when heavies cant spam rpg every 12 seconds or mediums cant heal beam or use defibs, even with how the games gunplay works you really cant deny that light could be strong if these things werent so blatantly powerful

[restive plover]

This game 9/10 your getting third partied this game is shit from the original starting point, heavy is for imbosoles, medium is alright and light is just useless you can’t change my mind don’t know why I asked game is actually ruined

I’m turning to a heavy main from here on out it’s just ridiculously easy

[ornate furnace]

Lights entire gameplay was hit and run anyway, now it actually matters because you dont have to deal with denial abilities like fucking heal and defib 😭 its actually fun to play light, as much as I fundementally LIKE the light class, light is genuinely terrible

[copper sinew]

Lights have always had the highest dps in the game and it honestly seems to me like the biggest difference in the new mode is a mentality difference, people are just thinking that they probably shouldn't just go in blindly into a fight and try to find a good angle to attack from behind.

Yeah no healing helps, but it doesn't matter if you kill someone from full health in a second anyway

[ornate furnace]

and no they dont this game has no grenade indicators or good audio w/ them 😭 I'll get randomly blown up by a nade and my first thought was "where the fuck did that come from??" I still get jump scared by heavy flamethrower players with no audio, they really need to double down and add indicators, if light being invis is "too hard to see" and they need hand holding for that, add better indicators for sound queues and grenades, similar to apex

[elder cloud]

lights having highest dps true? just curious

[ornate furnace]

I have the same mentality in every game mode, this game mode just rewards you for it more than others, if you actually wait out a heavy rpg they cant do it again so you have a more fair fight that doesn't result in you getting fucking one shot, and thats my point about healing, in the normal game you cant just wait out someone, if you do dmg to someone or kill someone then run, you have to worry about them INSTANTLY resetting because of defib+heal

[ornate furnace]

yeah, i think only one of heavies guns do more dps then light but out of each gun light has the highest dps

ranging from like..250 to 300? I think

[elder cloud]

even compared to fcar?

[copper sinew]

all the weapons are in the 250s for light (except melees, throwing knives and the new gun), while other classes are only getting up to the 200s

fcar has like 198,1 dps after the nerf

[elder cloud]

didn’t know that.. thanks guys

[ornate furnace]

rpg moment, and m60 has like 70 bullets while the lewis gun has like 47 bullets 😭 and you dont kill people at full hp in a second, not heavies atleast

even though light has more dps it cant kill a full team in one mag 🤷

[elder cloud]

LH1 would like a word

[ornate furnace]

thats if you hit all headshots or atleast 2 headshots

[elder cloud]

assuming you are cracked out of your mind which i’ve never been able to do😔😔

[ornate furnace]

😔 I use dagger and pistol I wouldn't know

but yeah the verdict is light kinda just sucks and the new game mode really shows that, what makes light strong is the fact that other people have a handicap to make your fight easy for you, which is why im more than confused on why embark thinks stungun made fights unfair, I get how stungun invis is annoying but stun itself wasn't exactly the issue especially for how flawed it was, now you can heal people mid stun like what 💀

[sullen tree]

True, though I never really have an issue with frags, cause I always see them on the ground

[ornate furnace]

i hear them like, one out of every 40 frags I hear it

[copper sinew]

Assuming an even spread of classes a team has 750 health, even with the more popular MMH it becomes 850, the only two weapons in the game that have that damage volume are both lkms and both grenade launchers (assuming you hit everyone at once with all the grenades), but you need like 3,75-4,25 seconds to deal that much damage with the lkms, but in that time you will probably be killed so in a reasonably even skilled game no class can kill an entire team on its' own.

Extremes are possible but with how much spread the lkms have I wouldn't call that likely to happen

[ornate furnace]

yet heavy still does it? 🤨

your math is mathing, but it doesn't like, get rid of the possibility of it happening, cause it happens

[copper sinew]

never happened to me honestly so, skill issue? /s

[ornate furnace]

Now comes the part of it where the argument becomes "I dont see it so it couldn't be real"

I guess we're blind and deaf now huh 🧏‍♂️

[brittle yoke]

make cloak turn you into a random prop and last longer, its hard to play agressive stealth as an armchair but easy to hide and be sneaky:]

[ornate furnace]

and even then, your math is wrong. because if a heavy uses an rpg he still has his full magazine, so now he has MORE than enough ammo to compensate for their already low health from explosions, because they're super ahead of the fight for just pressing a button

he's still chunking an entire team for free, you're killing them with half a mag if you hit 2 people with 1 rpg, which isn't hard to do

[elder cloud]

most sane take in the discord

[brittle yoke]

lmao

[copper sinew]

I am not taking gadgets into account because if we do you can kill a heavy with grenades before his rpg comes back from the cooldown

[ornate furnace]

the entire conversation before and still now is about how heavy and mediums gadgets overcompensate 🤨 it was how light sucks in comparison to the other

🤨 Guess we're in remedial reading comprehension too huh

its convinent to not take gadgets into account, but lewis gun still does better than any light gun, if you wanna play that argument

[copper sinew]

Lights are still at a disadvantage against heavies I never said that isn't true, but they still have the highest dps in the game on their guns

[hallow leaf]

Lewis is only good because it is on heavy and they have the extra health to make it good. Put it on any other class and it will be shit

[ornate furnace]

the ammo count is still really good, I feel like medium could make it work but medium stinks

light*

[copper sinew]

and those are two different conversations to me, because, yes you can hit with an rpg dealing 140 damage to everyone and than kill an entire team with you one magazine, but you could also, you know, not do that and until we know how often that happens, which we can't without official data, we are left with what the rpgs can do and what the guns can do and only the things that happen to us, which can be wildly different

[copper sinew]

true that, I doubt you could kill a light with it or an M60 if you had that 100 health less with it

[ornate furnace]

any conclusive evidence because they dont want to tell you why for a reason, i think they're scared to show stats, because 88.9% of mediums probably run defib heal

[copper sinew]

but on the other hand you usually kill the lights with all the 350 health

[ornate furnace]

and EVERY heavy loadout has fuckin' rpg bullshit

[copper sinew]

and why wouldn't they? Turret is often too stupid to target people it sees and ignores those it can't if not provoked and its' dps isn't even that good and dematerializer is pretty good but the impact it can have isn't that big when a lot of explosives gadgets and replicate one part of that effect or negate the other part

[copper sinew]

that is more of a problem of other gadgets being not as engaging in my opinion they are pretty good, but none of them are "I put a big hole here, now" type of thing. I am willing to bet a lot of people would still run the RPG if it dealt like 50 damage, just because it is a big, explosive stick

[ornate furnace]

anything that heals in fps games is really stupid, and anything that heals when theres a hit and run class is REALLY bad for the games health

heal was so stupid they had to make gas do MORE damage, and it still heals through gas 😭

it can still heal through fire, and fuck it, double heal beam while the heavy steals fuck you!

[copper sinew]

That is just a bad take, the only fps that doesn't have healing I can think off the top of my head is CS.

Double healing should be nerfed tho coz that is just cancer.

[ornate furnace]

hows it a bad take, imagine risking your life as light just for the person you worked hard to kill/get low just gets healed, it denys effort, thats why its bad, I think light should get a syringe thing or somn

[copper sinew]

it is a bad take because virtually all the fpses have healing in them and they are great games

[ornate furnace]

none of them make healing annoying, in apex you take forever to heal, so if you full reset its the enemy teams fault for not capitalizing, cod syringe heal is just slight and it doesn't do much in the long run, valorant sage healing is a limited thing, and it cant be all out abused, the R6 healing might be an issue, ive heard complaints.

and overwatch healing can either be mitigated, denied, or straight up useless

you cant counter heal beam in the finals without doing more damage than it or killing the person healing, and even that doesn't work and they can be defibbed back instantly

[copper sinew]

While I agree that there could be some gadgets added to counter healing I don't think healing is annoying.

Healing beam in the finals is the most similar to the medigun from tf2 and a big part of that game is being aware that there most likely is a medigun on the enemy team and there are also no ways to counter it outside of dealing enough damage or killing the healer, so again I think it is just an issue of mentality.

[ornate furnace]

as someone who's played tf2 the healbeam is significantly stronger than the medigun, and in tf2 you cant have 2 medics pumping heals into their heavy, and theres no fucking defib in tf2 😭 and you can just not be caught as a medium, the range on healbeam is also REALLY fucking good, you dont have to be making out with them to keep them alive

[copper sinew]

and defibrillators aren't that good. If you down someone and push the team right after going into a 3 v 2 they either have to spawn them in a bad spot and they get killed again or they haveto back off

[boreal laurel]

Exactly—just learn to shoot the healer and you’re fine. (IK IK it’s not that simple but it’s not that hard either)

[ornate furnace]

you dont have as easy options to push or rush a fight like you do in tf2, have fun pushing the healer through 2 other people shooting at you, so now its an unfair 2v3 and you sell your team by trying to frag the healer, or he dies and gets defibbed back cause your team is too dumb to push or they ended up trading cause while you were pushing the healer your teamates just fucking die

and people can still defib mid fight, the damage someone can do to you after a defib before they die still changes the fight SIGNIFICANTLY

or they just run and stall out the fight to reset

especially if its another medium because let you go and steal he has time to get his entire team back to keep the fight going

[copper sinew]

oh, you see I get around that by not playing with a stupid team (I only play ranked with premades), and we almost always stomp people when they try to defib almost immidately

[ornate furnace]

so the only option to deal with a stupid item is to have a 3 stack, you know that was the same solution with dealing with stun gun before it got nerfed

stick with your team and say "IM STUNNED KILL THE LIGHT" 🧏‍♂️

its the same situation, they just dont give a damn about medium

[copper sinew]

yeah but also stun gun was more annoying because it took away player agancy, while defib is fun because it gives you more targets to shoot at.

[ornate furnace]

agency? AGENCY?? you could still kill people while stunned 😭 it was just harder because you couldn't ADS, now you can stun, swap weapons, and do everything else

imagine getting stunned as a heavy, oop, just rpg the light

it made fights more fair for the light in question, but I guess being cc'd isn't fair all of a sudden? like idk

now you just use stun to run because it cant get you any value, being stunned gives the enemy you're fighting WAY more value

[copper sinew]

Yeah that is agency, you couldn't swap weapons, would just die if you had a melee weapon, movement and turning around was slowed down, those are all thing you wanna do normally but couldn't with the stun gun. I don't think what they did to the stun gun was right in terms of where it is balance wise, but it was the right thing to do gameplay wise.

They basically deleted the more annoying parts of the stun gun, but it left it with nothing really, kinda like what Valve did with the Sandman in tf2, which went from probably the best or second best scout melee to arguably the second worst

[ornate furnace]

riot shield could still block it while stunned, and it only really stopped light and heavies, and if you get hit by stun as a light L

[copper sinew]

I do think the stun gun will end up buffed or reworked, but they probably want to see the stats before it happens. I truly hope what we have now is a band aid fix as a result of us being in the middle of a season and hope stun gun gets buffed/reworked at the start of season 3

[ornate furnace]

maybe

[upbeat relic]

fcar no no good 😦

[copper sinew]

nah, fcar is in a good spot right now, most of the "good" weapons are I would like to see some buffs to the underperforming ones next instead.

[hallow leaf]

I would like to see it get completely reworked, I would also like to see a poison dart

[fleet brook]

So tf2 with a good team protecting there medic (joking)

[upbeat relic]

the fcar dmg nerf was enough but the recoil didn't need increased and the extra 5 rounds paired with the reduced damage makes it feel more similar to the akm than it should

[fleet brook]

A large part of medium is supporting your team

So yeah medium just gets gutted in team utility

And heavy is just.... Very meh he can't do destruction well because of the one charge rule and setting up a site is less valuable because there's 2 sites

[copper sinew]

akm still has like 10 bullets more it still can deal overall the same damage (even slightly more actually if you hit with all the bullets) and it doesn't destroy akm in close quarters because they basically have the same damage output.

All the issues that made it seems unfair are fixed now in my eyes and it is still the long range weapon of choice for mediums

[ornate furnace]

sledge and charge n' slam

[fleet brook]

Also NO ONE ON MY TEAM WANTS TO PLAY SITE

[fleet brook]

Sledge vs any ranged weapon you're cooked

Charge n slam has no verticality

[ornate furnace]

goo gun

or just rpg lol let your team do the work till someone walks up on you

[fleet brook]

I play heavy for destruction not point and click destruction simulator

[ornate furnace]

too bad lol because these devs cant pick a poison

[copper sinew]

oh yeah a dart or a grenade that stops healing for the light, it would also fit with the disruption aspect of the class, a shield grenade for the heavy (like a grenade that gives non-regenerating health to his teammates) and something interesting for the medium, maybe a goo mine that traps people that step on it or like a launcher trap that flings people in a direction.

[fleet brook]

Heavy and mediums utility get cut in half in terminal

[ornate furnace]

also melee heavy + goo gun wins against ranged heavies most of the time, its not consistent but its better

[ornate furnace]

which is good it shows the insecurities of those classes

[fleet brook]

Lights have two modes more or less

Power shift

And terminal

[fleet brook]

True

[copper sinew]

Which isn't necessarily bad. Honestly it feels good that devs focus more on listening to the casual audiences rather than looking high-skill rankings. At least there won't be a repeat of what happened to overwatch.

[fleet brook]

Nah as an og over watch player and semi player now

They listen to casuals in overwatch 2

[ornate furnace]

overwatches only good change was the dps passive

of giving anti-heal on shooting opponents 😭

[sullen tree]

Goo gun is goated.

It just takes a modicum of skill, but it can be really oppressive, lol

[fleet brook]

That broke the game on such a large level they had to peel it back and since they've put it back in \ rebuffed it spamming has become a viable Strat especially on tracer and other heroes meant to be flanks

Sorry for my side topic rants I just really enjoy showing my knowledge of overwatch

[livid cypress]

what is the best medium build for the new mode?

[fleet brook]

Defense or attack

[glass mason]

This is the hottest take I've ever heard in my life not gonna lie I assume this is sarcasm :^)

[novel sundial]

gun (last time i post it i swar)

[verbal valley]

Tommy gun would actually be a really good idea

[sand monolith]

@foggy snow hey sorry for ping. do you have the 2.5.0 spreadsheet still?

[verbal valley]

But if you add one weapon, each other class would need a weapon too. So maybe the tommy gun would be for the light or medium, and a baseball bat could be added, and the third weapon idea could be a tesla lightning gun or something

[foggy snow]

I didn't archive that one, but I can quickly copy it over to another sheet (after errands). It's a minor change, anyway.

[sand monolith]

okay thank you :))

i feel like keeping a version for each patch (if its not a burden) would be great for comparison between patch and just documenting

[sharp wraith]

nerf devib and healing beam like omg

[cyan echo]

Sniper + Tracking dart combo is kind of insane???

Esp on power shift where situational awareness is key

[foggy snow]

off the top of my head, the following has changed:

• FCAR damage: 25 -> 22
• FCAR magazine size: 20 -> 25
• FCAR damage per magazine: 500 -> 550
• FCAR TTK vs. Light (Body) -> 0.55s
• FCAR TTK vs. Medium (Body) -> 1.00s
• FCAR TTK vs. Heavy (Body) -> 1.44s
• FCAR TTK vs. Light (Head) -> 0.33s
• FCAR TTK vs. Medium (Head) -> 0.67s
• FCAR TTK vs. Heavy (Head) -> 1.00s

[sand monolith]

tysm :D

[upbeat relic]

recoil changed too

[cyan echo]

Fcar still feels pretty good to use at the higher skill levels, I still prefer it over the AK

[sand monolith]

It’s a good trade off I think they’re very even. Trading ammo for range is nice

[upbeat relic]

fcar no no good 😦

[livid cypress]

so is it worth it to do ak over fcar now?

[cyan echo]

AK used to have almost double the ammo cap, I like that it's more equal now and the Fcar scope is just perfect

[mellow lodge]

i think it's dumb what they did

just made the fcar closer to the akm instead of something unique

[cyan echo]

High damage accuracy weapons are notoriously hard to balance because good players don't really miss

[mellow lodge]

high damage weapon should be accurate but have a slower fire rate

the more interesting way of nerfing the fcar was just giving it a fire rate nerf and giving it more range

instead of UNGA BUNGA ME LIKE AKM PART 2

[cyan echo]

They said in the patch notes that the change is to make it more noob friendly while also lowering the skill ceiling a bit for the better players

[mellow lodge]

which is honestly fuckin dumb

like thats just ignoring your better skilled players at that point

oh it's not noob friendly? oh whats this i see? an akm 😔

maybe i'm just mad because meta still goes unchanged and melee hit reg is still fucked

kinda hard to find joy in a game when the weapons you love are just unsuable

[cyan echo]

Meh. I kinda agree that the goal of balancing shouldnt just be "low skill weapons are the best so everyone can play" but it's their game i guess

[upbeat relic]

if you wanted to trade mag size for damage the akm was already a great alternative i dont see why we need two versions of the same gun

[mellow lodge]

i really struggle to believe the devs care about any of the players above silver

[lyric badger]

As an Fcar main myself I think what they did was fair because once you get the recoil pattern down that think could melt just about anyone from any range pre nerf… it was OP

[upbeat relic]

if theyre trying to appeal to new people because of the player count dropping making the fcar "beginner friendly" was not the way to go imo

[mellow lodge]

yeah we all agree we are glad it got nerfed

[red dove]

So the only viable classes now are medium and heavy right

[mellow lodge]

we just dont like how it got nerfed, it was just making it way more similar to the akm

[lyric badger]

I can agree with that

[mellow lodge]

wdym by now? thats always been the case

[lyric badger]

Depends on the game mode

[red dove]

I was holding out hope until they killed dagger lmao

[cyan echo]

Nah light snipers can hold their own if theyre good

[mellow lodge]

no matter the game mode it's M&H

[upbeat relic]

the sudden jolt in the recoil about 5 shots in also feels out of place

[fresh ocean]

can yall just install cpma whatever steam players are seeing this so i have more people to play afps games with

this game is done for in the way that its headed !

if you want a good arena shooter you'd be wise to play q3a/cpma

[mellow lodge]

full names of those games?

[fresh ocean]

Quake 3 Arena

[upbeat relic]

bro what

[cyan echo]

Aint noway

[fresh ocean]

also, wrong channel, fwiw that wasn't my intention to post that in here

[sharp wraith]

bro if they would fix the revollver acc it would be so good

[soft shale]

1. maybe not if you could move
2. precision weapons are not the only ones with pretty bad hipfire
3. you will EVENTUALLY kill them before they do, if you're lucky, or if they suck ass 🤷🏻

[sullen tree]

nah, post it more that looks fire

[upbeat relic]

what class should have the tommy gun

[sullen tree]

1. only if they're geuninely ass and can't aim.
2. yep, but they also two shot lights most of the time, and there's literally only two of them in the entire game.
3. you will kill them, unless they take you COMPLETELY by suprise or unless YOU suck ass

[ripe mantle]

med

[sullen tree]

it looks like a medium weapon, though they really don't need another good automatic gun, lmfao

[cyan echo]

It could just be an MP5 skin

[sullen tree]

if heavy gets something like that, it should be a minigun

[restive plover]

Isn't it an SMG?

[sullen tree]

fair enough, tbh

[cyan echo]

Berserk sword skin for sledgehammer when?

[upbeat relic]

g3 when

[cyan echo]

It would be nice to have an equipment that makes you immune to gas, for lights it could easily replace the thermal vision for example

[sullen tree]

yo, dragonslayer for sledge has been something people have been begging for forever. We need that shit

[upbeat relic]

would combo like crazy with cloak

[cyan echo]

Imagine the clutches in QC

last minute hijacks are some of the craziest moments you get in this game

I can think of so many ideas for new equipment just from the top of my head, the stuff we have right now is fine but they can easily get more creative with it

[upbeat relic]

more weapons would be great but they struggle to balance what we have so far

[cyan echo]

They shouldnt be scared to simply add more things to the sandbox instead of necessarily replacing the gear that's less popular. Balancing is an issue but the game kinda does need more content... that isnt cosmetic dlc

[upbeat relic]

fr like give me dual pistols or something

desert eagle for heavy would be great imo

[regal wyvern]

Tried out the burst pistol on light again. actually decent, thought it was garbage

[novel sundial]

tis not automatic, tis spray like fly on shit

[regal wyvern]

Would love actual shifting in balance and new weapons tho. three just wasnt enough

[sullen tree]

true, lol

[formal monolith]

So what everyone thoughts on the F-Car Nerf?

[upbeat relic]

bad i no no like

[sand monolith]

amazing. one of the best balance changes the game has ever seen

medium is now the most balanced class in the game

which has not been the case ever. in any beta or season

[formal monolith]

Agreed, now AKM dose more damge, to get 2 kills

[upbeat relic]

you really like to throw that word around huh?

[sand monolith]

AKM does more damage with less range and more ammo. its a great trade off with the fcar

[formal monolith]

Next We could use a maybe a buff to shotgun or revolver, to change the meta

[novel sundial]

my three ideas for medium weapon additons was deagle, infantry rifle, and tom gun

[fleet brook]

Does health regen feel slower for anyone else in the new mode?

[formal monolith]

I think medium could use a pum Iron shotgun like in Half Life 2.

[upbeat relic]

infantry rifle like the lh1 right?

medium doesnt have any semi auto weapons tho

[peak valley]

define infantry rifle

[sand monolith]

revolver

[upbeat relic]

nuh uh single action

[formal monolith]

FAMUS

[sand monolith]

i mean i guess but functionally the same ina videogam

[peak valley]

thats a burst weapon

[upbeat relic]

double action i think

semi auto faster like v9s pew pew

[formal monolith]

isn't Burst the same thing as Semi auto, tho?

[idle sky]

Health regain is mostly restricted if I remember correctly. And yes, on top of that I do gain around 20 of what I lost, but it is slow

[formal monolith]

Dose anyone think the Heal Beam should nerf too?, ( look around the room with jacket ).

[novel sundial]

l1a1 for example

[idle sky]

idk. I don't run into too many issues with it. The only thing I think that can use a nerf is the flamethrower, and that honestly might just be a health issue

[fleet brook]

Flame thrower isn't an issue

[idle sky]

Hell, even a skill issue

[novel sundial]

yeah exactly but for medium cuz no fair only light has

[upbeat relic]

agreed

[idle sky]

maybe not for u, but I get killed by them almost every time one is in the game. But that also could just be my positioning

[formal monolith]

Well, it just I tried of see 3 Medium getting the highest amount of cashout.

[fleet brook]

Its an issue for lights only

Any other class dumpsters it and just play out of its range

[idle sky]

Yeah, I agree. If I'm using medium I can usually handle it longer. Or I'll just be shooting from longer ranges

[formal monolith]

Beside I think decreasing the range for heal beam a little or by half, is not going to be so bad.

[upbeat relic]

flamethrower counter is social distancing

[idle sky]

Lol, yah

[formal monolith]

I don't flamethrower is best for heavy's

[wise briar]

When can Heavies get a rotating gatling gun

[fleet brook]

When mediums get a crossbow

[formal monolith]

It annoying to fight up against, but not Op, like grenade launder

[fleet brook]

It will complete the tf2 trifecta

[upbeat relic]

crossbow headshot 1 tap?

[wise briar]

More like repeating crossbow with lesser damage but higher fire rate

[zenith surge]

does the data reshaper automatically effect rpgs and nades or does it need to be triggered manually?

[wise briar]

Nobody cares enough to use it to figure it out

[peak valley]

im using it rn

[wise briar]

Ok so whats the answer

[radiant star]

Okay, please give non-biased opinions. What's better, FCAR or AKM?

[zenith surge]

I feel like the Ak has more value now with the ttk being so close and extra ammo

[upbeat relic]

ak is better imo but i still use fcar out of hope and spite

[cloud pendant]

Medium with a Vector

[upbeat relic]

famas could also be up there now with 23 base

[radiant star]

Ima play three matches with AKM and FCAR and see which I like better

It makes me sad to see my boy go 😦
(FCAR)

[formal monolith]

It for the best.

[soft shale]

I will politely agree to disagree.

But that's not the point.

I personally felt frustrated/annoyed whenever playing QC games against triple L invis+stun teams, who would do nothing but try to stack up easy stun kills, randomly disrupting the moves of the other two teams, while not even attempting to win themselves.

It happened so frequently that upon seeing a triple L team in our lobby, my friends and I would deduce that they would play like this. And we were (almost) always proven right.

So, it's not really a matter of: could invis+stun be countered. Yes, it could. Even more so in a premade team with VC. But it sometimes made everyone's experience miserable.

Sure, you would not see this in Ranked. But not everyone plays Ranked, and casual modes like QC are where every new player starts. Getting beamed time and time again by invis+stun, while you're trying to learn the ropes and play the objectives, had the potential to disgust anyone from playing at all.

That's the real reason why it deserved the nerfs it got. And Light players who constantly abused it are the ones to blame here.

[floral sable]

should give heavy hang glider gadget. give lights mobility boots specialization that let them double jump and jump higher. also theres a glitch to get wallhacks for free involving color blind settings I'll tell you how to replicate if you put hang glider in season 3

[sullen tree]

I suppose we will agree to disagree.

yep, invis has gotten a lot of stuff nerfed that didn't have to be. I'm not crying too hard to see it go, just sad it wasn't nerfed before it killed OB dagger.

Stun was nerfed far far too hard to be fair. Allowing ADS was fine for the people who complained about it, and would have been more than enough to kill the gadget.

However, allowing gadgets and specalizations when:

RPG exists, Every heavy specialization can completely counter light stun, hard. You can't stun a healbeam to cut it off for a clutch play.

even stunning lights doesn't do anything unless they're running invis.

invis itself has been so heavily nerfed it's not even funny. Making it just more visible with the earrape stuff would be fine. They could easily revert the duration and other such things.

[radiant star]

I have come to a conclusion on the FCAR AKM debate

After testing in firing range, I can confidently say that it depends

FCAR trumps AKM in range. It can more reliably deliver the same amount of damage with less shots. Additionally, it has less of a damage falloff (based from what I can tell at least).
AKM beats FCAR at close range, by a long shot. They have basically the same hipfire (FCAR may be a tad more accurate), but the extra ammo with similar damage makes this a great choice over FCAR.

Don't get me wrong, they are both fantastic choices. IMO FCAR is more verstatile, but AKM can beat FCAR at close range anyday. (However that opinion IS biased)

[ripe mantle]

f sho

[sullen tree]

I think that's a good way to balance them, IMO.

Fcar shouldn't be a direct upgrade

[swift cradle]

What's the difference between that and getting rpg'd into dust?

[sullen tree]

getting stunned gave you a chance, lmao

rather than "you're 1-hit, have fun"

(it's also important to note RPG does not have a 12 meter range restriction like the stun did. You HAD to be in prime hipfire range not only to use lights guns but also to get off the stun in the first place.)

(12 meters will also engage the invis earrape sound)

[radiant star]

I WILL say that FCAR requires more aim consistency (ability to keep the bullets within a certain spread) to be better at range than AKM (Which actually needs a slightly tighter spread)
In short, technically speaking AKM is better than FCAR. But you also have the added bonus of better visibility with FCAR for range.
It really comes down to recoil preference and visibility preference.

[sand monolith]

Fcar should be generally worse than AKM and FAMAS considering it can play at both of their ranges

every generalist weapon should be worse than the ones that specialize in a certain playstyle or range

xp-54, fcar, and lewis gun

[soft shale]

IMHO, following the massive stun gun nerf, the invis duration nerf could (and should) be reverted, especially now that it's easier to detect. Because invis never was the main issue.

I partially disagree that you have to be in hipfire range to use Light guns. I won't talk about the sniper, but both the XP54 and LH1 can hurt enemies a lot from beyond hipfire range. This is less true for the M11. And the double barrel shotgun, well... It's fucked as of now.

@swift cradle the stun gun affected all three classes, while the RPG insta-gib is only an issue for Lights. The RPG has a longer cooldown. And is used by the largest, most visible, slowest moving character of the three.

With that said, I wouldn't complain if the damage from a direct hit was lowered from 140 to 100-120, exclusively on Lights. It would still hurt a lot, but would give a better chance of survival.

[radiant star]

FAMAS is worse than both FCAR and AKM. (test it for yourself)
Generally, FCAR has been the "long range" weapon for medium. AKM is best at close range, while being okay at medium range. FAMAS dominates medium range, and does adequately at close.

Tbh FCAR and AKM have such similar stats it really just comes down to which you play better with (looking at TTK)

[sand monolith]

FAMAS does more damage from further than FCAR now. the minimum and maximum damage drop offs are longer, as well as the modifier being lower. the only issue before 2.6 was that the fcar did so much damage that it didnt matter

sorry, the minimum is the same as fcar but the max is longer.

35m minmum for both and 40m max for fcar. a 47.5m max for famas

old fcar would shit on famas any day tho

[radiant star]

That difference is negligible. FCAR is better at close range than FAMAS, too.

[sand monolith]

yes because famas is meant to be bad at close range. i also agree the difference isnt as much as it should be but it's definitely not negligible. the famas is genuinely very good from range

[vernal tinsel]

melee hit reg super butts still https://streamable.com/qq8650

[sand monolith]

famas could get a buff to its minimum range fall off though for sure

but as far as dps values go, all the weapons are in a great spot. ranges just need to be tuned a bit

[radiant star]

IMO the 3 damage nerf to FCAR was a little heavy. 2 dmg would keep it more balanced

And just for transparency, I run with FAMAS, AKM, and FCAR

I think I just suck too bad with FAMAS at range lol

[sand monolith]

i think generalist weapons are lame and should be kept out of meta so im fine with the nerf being heavy

[sand monolith]

this is fair burst weapons are hard

[radiant star]

FCAR isn't a "generalist" gun...

[sand monolith]

it plays at both ranges wdym

[radiant star]

If you want generalist, look at AKM

[sand monolith]

AKM is bad for range. In comparison to the other rifles, it specializes in close range

fcar plays at both the ranges of the AKM and the FCAR but does a little worse at both ranges now

[radiant star]

Not from what I saw in-game. AKM is somewhat comparable to FCAR and FAMAS at range.

Generally in firing range I can 1 clip the dummy at the end of the firing tunnel with both guns

[radiant star]

(FCAR and AKM)

[sand monolith]

AKM falls off sooner and harder

[radiant star]

Okay, thanks?

[radiant star]

The ammo cap counteracts that

[sand monolith]

yes but the ttk is much higher from range with the AKM. its not unusable though because of the ammo count, which is good

generally when fighting against other rifles at range, the AKM will lose

[radiant star]

What? "Not usable from the ammo count" wdym by that

[sand monolith]

unusable* sorry ab that

[radiant star]

... then why can I full auto with both guns and 1 clip the dummy

[sand monolith]

its not unusable is what im saying

[radiant star]

Okay now im really confused

You initially siad it was usable, switched to unusable, then useable again. Make up your mind

[sand monolith]

The AKM is worse than the other rifles at close range but is not terrible at range because of the mag

it is not unusable

[radiant star]

Aaaaand you contradicted yourself again

[sand monolith]

im not contradicing myself i corrected a typo

[radiant star]

"Not unusable" means useable. You then said "unusable* sorry abt that". Then you swapped back to "not unusable"

[radiant star]

You literally just proved my point...

[sand monolith]

the typo was the word usable. i meant to say unusable and keep the "not"

[radiant star]

Aaaah, mb

[sand monolith]

its ok it happens

but yeah all rifles are capable at range, AKM is just the slowest

[radiant star]

Even then it still feels viable for range

[sand monolith]

yeah it is

it just specializes in close range compared to the other rifles

[radiant star]

Idk I just think FCAR got hit a bit too hard. Don't get me wrong, it needed to be nerfed, but not nerfed as bad as it was.

Either that or buff the other guns so they are viable choices

[sand monolith]

im fine with it being overnerfed a little just because its been meta for so long

later it could be rebuffed depending on the state of the game

but honestly i think this patch slates medium as the most balanced class in the game

[radiant star]

I think that's exactly why it shouldn't have been overnerfed. A lot of players have to switch up their playstyles, and that can be frustrating.

[sand monolith]

idk i come from overwatch where they intentionally change the meta every patch and players get upset if the meta isnt changed in a patch. so i guess its probably more of a preference. but im a huge fan of finally being able to use the other weapons on medium

[radiant star]

Totally, I agree. Imo its bad to nerf a gun so badly that if everyone has perfect accuracy at 30m it loses every fight
(assuming they are all medium class)

[sand monolith]

wdym

[radiant star]

TTK is so similar for FCAR and AKM now that its up to chance for whoever wins if both the FCAR user and AKM user have perfect accuracy. FAMAS just murders FCAR with perfect accuracy as well

Just sayin, for a "heavy assault rifle" it don't feel so heavy no more

All im hoping for is a teeeeeeeeensy buff of 1 dmg to FCAR

[sullen tree]

I agree with the RPG changes you proposed. I think a better way would be just buffing light health though. It'd also fix how much damage mines do to lights for zero effort.

It doesn't especially matter that RPG is on a super visible class, they tend to be enough of a fortress that you're not gonna get away without getting shot unless you have a sniper.

140 damage to start off is also debilitating to mediums as well. It reduces them to nearly 2/3rds light HP.

[sand monolith]

ok i agree with this 100% and i think the issue was that the FAMAS never should have been added to the game, the fcar should have been reworked into a long range weapon instead. the fcar now has to sit at an awkard point in the middle of the two weapons where it isnt really allowed to have a niche because theres no room for it to have one

if famas was never added and fcar got a small fire rate nerf instead it could have been great

[radiant star]

I'm sorry, I genuinely can't tell if you are being sarcastic (It's been a long day). Could you clarify please?
(And I mean this in the kindest way possible)

[sand monolith]

Three rifles is a lot and it's hard for each one to have their own unique identity. The original idea seemed like the AKM was for close range and the FCAR was for long range. But the fcar was so overtuned that it was best at both. They should have lowered the fire rate of the FCAR so that it was worse at close range (more punishing to miss up close and less dps) but easier from long range. They added the FAMAS instead which kind of took the FCAR's identity and forced it into a weird middleground spot

[radiant star]

Okay, thank you. My brain was left to cook in the oven too long and its now a fried chicken

[sand monolith]

no its all good my original statement was poorly worded

[radiant star]

What might be cool is if FCAR became long range gun, like you suggested, AKM be nerfed/buffed to be better at close range, and the FAMAS to be the "jack of all trades".

I.e. FAMAS beats AKM at range, but AKM beats FAMAS a close range. (Same with FCAR but reversed)

[subtle prairie]

I HAVE A SOLUTION : AUTO BURST
BURST, BUT AUTO

[radiant star]

Oh please no that just gives us a funky FCAR (that would probs be op)

[polar drum]

just bring out the muskets the modern guns are causing too many problems

[radiant star]

ikr

[sand monolith]

this would be cool if the current rifle balance proves to be bad once the meta settles

[radiant star]

Yeah. Guess we will have to wait 40 days to find out tho

[sand monolith]

this patch wa s a huge meta shakeup. no one understands that light was buffed this patch

[soft shale]

I think buffing Light health would cause all kinds of unnecessary balancing troubles.

I would definitely buff health regen speed, though, so that Lights can recover faster after taking damage.

I have no opinion on mines tbh.

My point on Heavies being visible was in the context of the stun gun/RPG comparison.

It's not exactly a fair comparison if you don't take into account that the stun gun was wielded by the smallest, fastest and often invisible character.

A lot of times, I could clearly hear that a Light was nearby, but not see him and attempt to dodge before I got stunned.

You can (usually) see a Heavy coming at you, even though it doesn't mean that you will be able to dodge the RPG.

[subtle prairie]

tbf if the community hears another nerf the game gonna be a ubisoft title

[radiant star]

This is nice I can have chill conversations with sane people who dont just spew cuss words to the conversation.

[sand monolith]

buffed in ranked and simultaneously nerfed in casual

[sand monolith]

#👂┇game-feedback moment

[radiant star]

@sand monolith thank you, this is like the first conversation that I've had in discord that was actually constructive

[sand monolith]

you too :)))

[radiant star]

What do you main as light?
I'm not very familiar with light meta

[radiant star]

Fr i cant hit the little gremlins for the life of me

[sand monolith]

in a perfect world i would main the m11 but the xp-54 is pretty much objectively better. If you want meta though its the lh1, that thing will ruin the game once heavy gets nerfed

[radiant star]

LH1 always felt strong. Dosen't it have the strongest single-hit damage? (other than sniper of course)

[sand monolith]

Yes it does 49 on a body shot and 98 on a headshot. it also has BETTER FALL OFF STATS THAN THE SNIPER

[radiant star]

WTH?!

[sand monolith]

the starting fall off range is EIGHTY METERS

[radiant star]

Whoever made LH1 was high. No other explanation

[radiant star]

That will break this game's spine in half

Also who in their right mind gave a SNIPER DAMAGE FALLOFF like what

[sand monolith]

if you hit 1 headshot during a kill with the lh1 it will kill faster than every weapon on light. and bodyshots only is just on the same level as other weapons

[radiant star]

🙂 this wont break the game at all

Are we all in agreement that the cloak for light was a tragedy this season?

[sand monolith]

the two things stopping this weapon from destroying the game are the lewis gun and the rpg which do need to be nerfed. if lh1 isnt nerfed in the same patch then the game will see the fastest ttk meta its ever seen (besides nukes)

[soft shale]

Honestly I see no reason to play with the M11. Anytime I tried using it, it felt extremely underwhelming in comparison to the XP54, which is way easier to control, with a better sight picture, and very strong up to mid range, where the M11 struggles.

[sand monolith]

cloak nerf was sad but it was causing a ton of casual players to leave. hopefully they can rework it to be more fun to play against

[sullen tree]

that's fair, honestly.

I kinda want a stim type gadget, tbh

[sand monolith]

yeah the minimal ttk boost you get from the m11 isnt worth the gigantic range loss over the xp. its really unfortunate cause the m11 is so much fun

[radiant star]

Oh goodness please not another Octane (if you know, you know)
I started playing FINALS to NOT deal with sweaty Octanes high on stim.

[sand monolith]

if light gets a stim it should only start natural regen early. it shouldnt actually boost anything imo. maybe also a separate stim that solely gives a speed boost

[soft shale]

WDYM stim ?

[sand monolith]

if light got a stim that did more than 1 thing it would just become a must pick gadget

[radiant star]

Makes you speedy for a short duration

[sullen tree]

starts health regen, and maybe makes you a bit speedy. (mostly for the health regen tbh, I'd like the extra speed, but it's negotiable)

[radiant star]

Embark is watching this rn and is probs like "So THIS is what our community talks about"

[soft shale]

My thoughts exactly. That weapon needs a slight buff or rework.

[radiant star]

@sand monolith why is your name FCAR IS DEAD

I can't tell if its exitement, depression, or both

[sand monolith]

i think the issue is the xp-54 honestly. it invalidates the m11 and the V9S. its kind of a boring generalist weapon tbh

[soft shale]

I don't feel that Lights need extra speed. Quicker health regen, definitely. But it should be an intrinsic ability, not a gadget.

[sand monolith]

excitement. i have been a day 1 fcar hater since the second closed beta when it was added

[radiant star]

I am supriesd you kept a (somewhat) unbiased opinion

And I am happy that I kept a (somewhat) unbiased opinion (forgor the "un" part lol)

[soft shale]

I agree, but right now Lights do not need more nerfs. I think the other weapons should be buffed instead.

[sand monolith]

i play every class evenly so i think ny opinions come from a love of the game instead of a single class. i genuinely just want all the classes to be good with their own strengths and weaknesses

[radiant star]

What?! A person that plays ALL the classes?!?! WHAT SACRELIGE IS THIS
(My legal team is making me say: "this was in jest")

[sand monolith]

once lewis and rpg are nerfed i think the xp-54 can get a nerf and the weak weapons (on both classes) can get buffs finally

[subtle prairie]

nerf the damage at range buff the damage close range

[sand monolith]

NOOO i have to play one class religiously and get mad at anyone who suggests anything against said class. I LOVE GETTING ANGRY!!!!

[radiant star]

Every light that focuses kills over objective ever

[sand monolith]

every solo queue light, every fcar loving medium, every quick play heavy player

[radiant star]

Hey im an FCAR loving med... 😦

[sand monolith]

i mean like, ONLY fcar loving med

[radiant star]

Ah, I see. I do pretty much only use FCAR tho lol

[soft shale]

Definitely agree on the Lewis needing tweaks. That thing shreds and outshines the M60, just like the XP54 outshines the M11. I've been a M60 user since S1 though. I just never really liked the recoil pattern and sights on the Lewis.

RPG needs a damage on Lights nerf as I said earlier. Then it will be fine.

[radiant star]

I mainly play med as a support class tho so as long as they don't overnerf my healy gun im happy

[sand monolith]

finals has way too many people that agrue balance in bad faith or with extreme class bias. but i cant really blame them, the gameplay has changed so much since release that it is hard for new players to understand what the game is supposed to be

[sand monolith]

the goat

[radiant star]

I describe it to newbies with this sentence: "An FPS game that makes you feel like you're playing in an E-SPORT or gameshow"

[sand monolith]

yeah this game is thankfully easy to sell new players on. mostly because of its amazing setting and INSANE trailers

[soft shale]

The healing gun still needs to be tuned down to break off from the very stale shield/heal meta we have now.

[sand monolith]

seriously the entire trailer team needs like 10 raises each

[radiant star]

Solution: Nerf DUAL healing but not single healing

For example, if a character gets dual healed by mediums the healing receives a 1.6x multiplier from both healers. It's still faster, but not by much

It could help remedy the issue, but I don't think it could fully fix it

[sand monolith]

I honestly think the main issue with heal is the heavy class. heavy is super overtuned on its own so when its getting healed during a fight it feels horrid to fight against. ive never really been tilted fighting a pocketed light or medium though

[radiant star]

Don't get me started on the Intro sequence to matches, or the outro that each match has (when its at 30sec and the music kicks in)

[sand monolith]

battlefield devs when they arent shackled by EA

[radiant star]

Yeah. IDC if I get chewed up at my teammates, I'm not going to constantly heal push with you heavy. Suck it up (Unless I'm going against a team of no-lifers. That means all bets are off)

[radiant star]

XD

[sand monolith]

yeah the playstyle in general is boring

[radiant star]

FR

[soft shale]

As I said in the feedback channel, ranked games with limited respawns and team wipe penalties make all competitive teams aim for maximum survivability. So either double H with shields and barricades + 1 M healer/defib, or 1 H + 2 M healers/defib, or 3 M with at least two healers and triple defibs.

[sand monolith]

yeah survivability is meta especially in knockout rounds when you'll often get pushed by multiple teams at once

light is so much better in the final round for that reason

[soft shale]

Makes sense but at the same time becomes more boring the more you rank up the ladder.

I would like Embark to balance the game so that being offensive is more rewarding than sitting being shields with two healers.

[sand monolith]

at least now, medium has the worst weapons of the 3 classes. so you are trading damage for sustain and support for every medium you have on the team. once the lewis gun is dialed back, you will also be trading range for every heavy you have on the team

[soft shale]

Because then we would see much more use of all the tools available. Much more creativity.

[sand monolith]

this is going to be so hard without directly incentivizing 3rd partying

[subtle prairie]

make it that you can only receive heal from 1 beam

[soft shale]

Then it should come with a second major fix, making unlocking vaults, launching and defending cashouts more rewarding.

That would put a stop to opportunistic/rat gameplay

Which to me is an extremely unfair tactic

[mellow lodge]

just incourages MHH more

[sand monolith]

opening vault: +2k cash

starting a cashout: +3k cash

killing an enemy within 50m of your cashout: 2x cash bonus

[radiant star]

@sand monolith I tried to submit a feedback ticket to FINALS that compressed our conversation about FCAR, AKM, and FAMAS with the idea of FAMAS being the average anne gun, AKM being close range, and FCAR being far range. I also included your awesome idea of nerfing FCAR fire rate. Let's see if anything happens!

[sand monolith]

the current cash amount for opening and inserting very rarely matters

[sand monolith]

good luck :))

[radiant star]

I hope that FCAR can become good at range again. Main reason why I used it.
(NOT saying it should trump AKM at close range tho. Last season that was rediculous)

[mellow lodge]

i enjoy it being nerfed but they nerfed it in a dumb way

[radiant star]

Agreed. Especially with the "buff" that covered up the nerf

[sand monolith]

nah i dont think so. range is such an underrated stat in this game, if lewis gun straight up didnt exist and rpg was even a slightly reasonable gadget, MHH wouldnt be meta

[soft shale]

I would have qualified many times with such rules. Because despite knowing that it's not the best tactic, my team and I are often the ones who do most of the heavy lifting, only to often get stomped by two teams while defending.

We frequently end up having the best KDR/combat score of the lobby, having fought our way through the entire round, but still losing to people who are ass, and just third partied their way to the next round.

[radiant star]

MHH? wat dat mean

[mellow lodge]

they shouldve just lowered fire rate increased range

[sand monolith]

Every long range heavy weapon should be a very niche pick. The fact that the lewis gun exists is an insane design oversight

[radiant star]

IKR?!?!? Still needed at least a small nerf in the damage department tho
like 1 or 2 dmg, not 3

[sand monolith]

getting 10 kills defending your cashout only to lose it and see the other team across the map has 0 kills and got their cashout for free

[radiant star]

What does MHH mean please enlighten me

[sand monolith]

Medium Heavy Heavy team composition

[soft shale]

My life in ranked games.

[radiant star]

thankyee

[sand monolith]

its so frustrating

[mellow lodge]

lewis isn't even used in MHH meta though

[radiant star]

My life in ranked

[soft shale]

I've lost my last ranked final round to HMM, double Lewis + healer who almost never fought, just kept healing.

[sand monolith]

I don't think the SA12 will be used nearly as much now that medium lacks an insane range weapon

it might take a little bit for the meta to adjust though

[mellow lodge]

if anything sa12 is going to be used even more

[sand monolith]

why do you think that

[soft shale]

I tried double Lewis in QC with my team mate, we made whole lobbies leave because it was disgustingly strong.

[mellow lodge]

fcar ttk nerf

[sand monolith]

yeah i feel like the fcar nerf will cause at least 1 heavy to use lewis to make up for the lack of range / exploit the other MHH comp's lack of range

since the medium will likely be running model1887 now in high rank

[soft shale]

As I said I'm a M60 player, I feel like I busted my ass trying to be reasonably good with it when I could have used the Lewis instead and shred everything in sight with ease.

[sand monolith]

lewis is nearly objectively better than m60 its so sad

literally why does the lewis gun kill faster AND have more range

[soft shale]

The barricade size change actually hurt the M60 even more, because it needs long bursts to be stable, and the dome shield can't help much with that.

I don't see why it was an issue at all that you could fire from behind barricades, to me that was always the point. At worse size it DOWN, so that it protects Heavies less. But not the other way around.

Or lower the count from 2 to 1

[sand monolith]

the lewis gun genuinely needs to be entirely reworked to needs to be nerfed to be a very niche pick when you need to sacrifice dps for extra range for whatever team comp you're using. Nearly every fps game with a tank/heavy class has learned that they should not have consistent long range options. It's honestly baffling that finals made that mistake

the m60 and sa1216 should be the two most used weapons on heavy

[soft shale]

But it has horrendous lateral recoil if you fire for too long. Yay. Just fire shorter bursts and profit.

[subtle prairie]

revolvers....

[sand monolith]

i personally like the barricade change. it's very nice for defense and protecting steals and revives. but i dont play with m60 so idk

[sand monolith]

FUN MEDIUM FACT: revolver has worse range than all of the rifles by a very large margin

[subtle prairie]

makes sense its a pistol
but it has high close range damage output

[soft shale]

If Heavy had a long range option, it should be something like the Chauchat in Battlefield 1. Which was one of the LMGs available to the Support class with the lowest ammo per magazine, lowest RPM, but very good accuracy, clear sights, and high DMG per hit.

[sand monolith]

yes something extremely committal to the long range playstyle that is super weak up close would be great. the MGL almost does this but is a little bit too extreme with it

the lewis gun could definitely be rebalanced into that though

[soft shale]

The Chauchat was actually quite good up close too, but objectively inferior to many other LMGs, because you could not really afford to miss, and had to reload more often. The better option was often the BAR, with the same amount of rounds per mag but lower recoil and higher ROF.

[mellow lodge]

revolver is so fucking bad at long range

[sand monolith]

LITERALLY WHY

[mellow lodge]

make each shot of revo deal 50 damage at range 😭

[sand monolith]

Oh well Lewis should be a bit worse up close than that then

[mellow lodge]

it has 6 bullets come on devs

[sand monolith]

Revolver should be a ranged burst damage demon that is clunky and unforgiving up close

No idea why it’s like this in its current state

[soft shale]

Well the Chauchat would actually get shit on up close against fast ROF SMGs, so that was quite balanced.

Something similar in The Finals would be ideal.

[sand monolith]

Oh well that’s cool then. As long as it would be beatable up close by a light

[soft shale]

At similar skill level, an Assault player with a SMG would beat a Support with a Chauchat. So yeah that's what we're aiming at in a Light vs Heavy, SMG vs Lewis scenario.

But I would advocate for a long range option to actually be a whole different gun, with lower ROF, lower ammo count, high recoil.

[sand monolith]

They would need to do something else with the Lewis gun then. But it definitely needs a nerf

[soft shale]

Something like a .50 cal semi auto sniper, that would be extremely bad at hip firing, too clunky to be effective at close range, but be able to deal decent long range damage.

[sand monolith]

This was in the files for a bit but likely got reworked into the KS

[soft shale]

Which is nothing remotely close to that.

[sand monolith]

Honestly I’m fine with that. As a sniper hater

[soft shale]

Snipers don't fit this game and tend to ruin its dynamics (see Powershift), so I agree.

[sand monolith]

Long range options are genuinely fun to play against when they aren’t snipers

[soft shale]

We need most guns to be close/mid range, so that they favor getting closer to the enemy. Which also implies getting closer to objectives.

Snipers sitting on cranes for whole games are as annoying to play against as they are to play with. Deadweights.

[sand monolith]

I think if the Lewis gun got a substantial fire rate nerf and a slight range buff it would be fine

[sand monolith]

Yes absolutely. This game has been dominated by long range potshotting since its first beta

That’s why I’m so hyped about the fcar nerf

Praying that the Lewis and LH1 are soon to follow so we can finally have a fun meta

And buff 93R and KS

[soft shale]

As long as they get rid of that horrendous lateral recoil as well lol.

And nerf CL40 accuracy when jumping lol.

Fortunately it doesn't see too much use but this is 100% a frustrated Medium's weapon.

[sand monolith]

Embarks philosophy on recoil as a whole needs to be changed. It’s a terrible balance factor because it completely disappears once you’ve learned the recoil pattern

[soft shale]

I can't hit shit with rifles and get steamrolled, time to bring the braindead grenade launcher and be an annoyance to everyone

[sand monolith]

Yet the fcar stood comfortably for over a month after the recoil nerf because “it’s harder now so it’s fine lol”

[sand monolith]

Yeah this is definitely an issue

Although at least it’s dogshit against heavies

[soft shale]

I don't actively learn recoil patterns, I just find that weird patterns make weapons unsatisfying to use.

[sand monolith]

Yeah it keeps the weapon dominant and annoying while making it feel terrible to use. So now no one is having fun

[soft shale]

But it's an absolute misery for Lights. Who don't seem to complain too much because it's less used than the RPG. But it's in fact an extremely easy Light removal tool that requires no skill.

[sand monolith]

The game generally needs easier recoil considering there’s so much shit going on

[sand monolith]

Yeah it’s very annoying. Especially considering the medium can shoot their feet and win because they have more hp and take the same amount of damage from their own explosion

Ok I should definitely sleep. It’s almost 2am. It was fun though :)

[soft shale]

You don't want to know what time it is here ahah. Good night !

[sand monolith]

Gn!

[sullen tree]

I think they should change it so you can either clunkily hipfire it up close, or fan it for less damage higher burst

[cloud fossil]

Can we get like a 1 shot reload 50 cal sniper for heavy? Not having substantial long range really makes the light snipers unfair to match with

[torn mantle]

I hate snipers now

[last hill]

What do you think of my lewis gun skin concept. Sorry it's low effort, I tried. 🤣

I need a retro gun for heavy class, it got me thinking of old top loading VCRs. Then this popped in my brain. 🤣🤣🤣

When you reload the top pops open and you insert a VHS tape. 🤣

[violet cosmos]

lewis deserves a nerf for just being the blatant best weapon on heavy, the shotguns on heavy suck ass though nowadays, LH1 is fine because a light dies to everything anyways, being mad at a class for outranging you is asinine when they have 150hp and no capacity to win close range gunfights against any class beyond other lights in head to head fights.

[mighty oyster]

Medium shotgun DMG should be little better in close distant. I need sometimes 3 shots to other mediums. Where akm would shred them way easier in close range.

[topaz hare]

I was playing this, game. All the stuff like gun grenade mine ability etc wasn’t rendered just the hands. Couldn’t shoot either. Randomly happened while interacting with a fire barrel. Even in ads it was just hands. Assume this isn’t meant. Too lazy and don’t want the notifications of opening a bug report. Don’t say I didn’t help.

[prime anvil]

Has the recoil pattern changed again on the FCAR? It seems like there’s a bit less of a kick in the middle of the magazine…? TTK is down but it feels more fun to use/control than the previous patch…

[foggy snow]

I personally don't think Heavy should have mid-range guns at all.

His whole archetype centers around hunkering down and being a defensive tank/close-range bruiser for the team

and Lewis Gun is the exception to that rule

but if Embark insists on having that thing be usable at mid-range, then they need to massively reign in its damage output while making its recoil less of a hassle to deal with

[foggy snow]

reign in the damage output to the point where it's DISTINCTLY weaker than a Medium AR

[mellow lodge]

but that would hurt heavy and the devs are heavy mains

[foggy snow]

the same damage output nerf needs to happen to the M60 and SA12 too

[calm isle]

WHY TAKE GOOVEMENT FROM US WAS POSSIBLE TO USE A FORM OF IT ON EACH CHARACTER AND WAS FUN

[foggy snow]

because Heavy's health pool has allowed him to outdamage basically everyone in a gunfight since launch, even without an RPG

[calm isle]

GOOVEMENT TECH MADE THE FINALS FUN

[foggy snow]

and WITH the RPG, his damage output is so much more absurd

[calm isle]

THE REAL PROBLEM HEAL GUN ENJOYERS BEING IN LOVE. EACH ONE OF THEM BAD BOYS GOT 450 HEALTH AND DEFIB

AND ALL THE MOVEMENT ON TOP OF THAT

[foggy snow]

yeah these devs didn't learn from Overwatch 1

slow and boring GOATS meta all over again, while people generally had more fun with dive IIRC

[calm isle]

WOULD PREFER IF THEY DIDN'T DO DOUBLE MEDIUM WITH 900 HEALTH IN THE TANK TO GO

[foggy snow]

with the heals, shields, defib, and Heavy in general having the best damage output of all classes

[calm isle]

THE PROBLEM IS HAVING TO GET HEALER OR GAME NOT FUN

WOULD BE MORE FUN IF THEY ADDED ITEMS THAT WERE DIFFERENT FOR GIVING HEALTH LIKE THE OSPUZE DRINK IDEA

[foggy snow]

well that's a simple solution. nerf heal beam = buff health regen for everyone to compensate for the loss of effective, on-demand heals

or add universal healing items, yeah

[calm isle]

OR MAKE THE THING BURN OUT BUT COME BACK SOONER

less health but slower cool down I think the most they should have is one medium worth of health and they need to learn to manage it. Rn it just allows for them to fix their mistakes to frequent and too fast

[mellow lodge]

rpg dumb af

[foggy snow]

Since Season 1, I'm wondering why they buffed the M60 instead of nerfing Lewis down to its level lol

They have to do something like:

• M60 damage down from 22 to 21 (like how it was before)
• Lewis Gun damage down from 25 to 23 + recoil improvement
• SA12 fire rate down from 200 to 180

to make Lewis distinctly weaker than Medium ARs

while reigning in Heavy's raw damage output on guns alone

[reef sage]

That's... Actually a rad idea!

[fleet brook]

Yeah but reloading Is a lot more punishing and maybe it's me but lmgs feel like they take 29 years to reload

[reef sage]

Some POSTAL vibes with this one

[tacit zinc]

so logical... an AR that would be more powerful than an LMG

Since season 1 the Heavy has been constantly nerfed, you have to stop at some point.

[mellow lodge]

have you never played any fps other than this game?

also they normally use the same bullet, so an lmg should not be more powerful

[rose niche]

yea and it pierces buildings

[rose niche]

BLOOD type beat

[heavy scarab]

would be nice if the APS took a bit of damage per projectile it absorbed

sometimes it just becomes really hard to do anything when an APS is placed somewhere, situation becomes worse with multiple

[foggy snow]

it should be a massive red flag that Heavy is STILL the best, most overkitted class in the game despite all of those nerfs.

it means that Embark is extremely slow at watering his offensive power down, or even targeting the right parts of him. Half of those nerfs didn't really do anything.

Only the nuke removal in S2 was the most substantial nerf. Auto shotgun nerf being the next best thing for the sake of Heavy weapon variety.

[soft shale]

I would like to see both LMGs with less recoil/less damage, with the M60 being weak at range and the Lewis weak up close.

[tacit zinc]

medium is the best

[mellow lodge]

no

[ivory flax]

please buff ks-23 it needs more love

[tacit zinc]

i play a lot of FPS, in BF LMG are more powerfull, same damages, better range, more recoil

[mellow lodge]

ar's are better in battlefield though

[tacit zinc]

It is the most represented class in the game

[sand monolith]

In good battlefield titles this is true. You should see 2042

Actually I think they fixed that issue now

[mellow lodge]

well in 2042 the dmrs are the best as val go brrrrrrrrrrr

[sand monolith]

Haven’t used it. I just remember when I played a lot last year that LMGs ran the game

Full sprinting with my long range 200 round mag fast RoF LMG with a quick ADS and a thermal holo sight

[mellow lodge]

also no matter the game for balance reasons an lmg should never better than an ar

[sand monolith]

Uhhh I think in finals the M60 should be better at close range than the medium weapons but that’s it

[mellow lodge]

hell nah

i do not want a 70 round mag being better than ar's at close range, even though it is rn

[sand monolith]

Heavy is meant to have great close range and struggle and mid to long range

Medium should be able to out range heavy, but lose up close. So that heavy can play defense effectively

[mellow lodge]

honestly as long as tk and dash are not nerfed idrc anymore 😔

just trying to enjoy the game again

[sand monolith]

Tk will be randomly destroyed in a patch like dagger was (no patch notes for it, no dev comment)

[mellow lodge]

cleanse myself from the anger caused by this balance team

[mellow lodge]

yeah thats what made me just give up caring about this game being fixed

[sand monolith]

Adding a server side check for a dagger backstab is crazy idk why they thought that would work

[mellow lodge]

it literally should just be if you hit the back half of someone it counts as a backstab

[sand monolith]

im fine with it checking if you're facing the same way as the person, to limit the amount of frustration and bullshit stabs that can and would happen before, but it should have been client side and only implemented AFTER they fixed the already broken hitreg

[mellow lodge]

i just don't like how they make the check when you start the animation

[sand monolith]

is that true LOL

[mellow lodge]

yeah thats why dashstab is fucked

[sand monolith]

why did they do this 😭

[mellow lodge]

otherwise dagger would still be usable as most of us just 180'd after dashing

[tacit zinc]

it hard to believe OP class is less popular than another....

[mellow lodge]

it's because heavy isn't as fun as the other ones because of the lack of movement

[gloomy mulch]

heavys still fun

but i understand the point, i dont often solo queue heavy only use it with friends

[mellow lodge]

me personally i think heavy is so boring

[gloomy mulch]

nah is fun

[mellow lodge]

idk i just find how easy it is to win as heavy takes away the fun of the game

[gloomy mulch]

ok so goo gun+sledgehammer or really anything is fun

also add anti grav

[tacit zinc]

precisely, the heavy is only good with two mediums, in solo he is vulnerable, slow movement, big hitbox, the medium is more versatile

[mellow lodge]

mfw HHM is the top meta pick of this game

[violet cosmos]

I see MMH just as much

[mellow lodge]

HHM is just better though, due to 2 rpg

[violet cosmos]

That is true

[thorny basin]

What is wrong with Cashbox indicator? Why it disappears sometimes even when my teammates carry it?

[mellow lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-gif-12757211553161227632

[thorny basin]

i always thought there is some logic like when player drops it so it disappears for a few seconds

[restive plover]

It's part of the game

[thorny basin]

what?

strange unexplained shit should be not a part of the game

[normal ice]

So, could someone help explain to me the real-life use cases of the Anti-Gravity Cube? I can't really figure out why you would bother throwing it down, let alone equipping it.

I think the two main purposes are to 1. give you and your team some VERY slow and vulnerable upwards mobility and 2. to disrupt your enemies and leave them floating in the air.

One problem is that, when used offensively for case #2, its effect is easy to walk around, and most objectives where you need to sit around and wait (where you would be most likely to be affected by its lingering effect) are indoors, except for Power Shift.

Another problem is that both use cases can backfire on you easily. Enemies can follow you up your cube if you use it for mobility, and attempting to leave your opponents in the air limits your own play area and may cause you or your teammates to undesirably float up in the air.

Probably the worst part is the opportunity cost. If you want to deny the enemies' area, gas or mines will KILL them instead of making them slightly easier to hit.

Am I missing something? Do any of you get any use out of this thing?

[restive plover]

1. I'm (aim) to cashbox

2. Wait till someone gets close to it....

3. If your aim doesn't fail get it as close to the cashbox as possible

4. Enjoy the struggle.

5. Might not be in next season tbh

[normal ice]

I've seen a few people do that, but you can still capture it while it's floating. Actually, depending on the terrain, floating up in the air while capturing the cashbox might make you harder to hit

Because unlike capturing regularly, you get to move a little -- and you can cover your body with the box easier

[digital saddle]

stun gun now needs two shots like tracking dart. still fair, half viable

[novel sundial]

huh

[soft shale]

I've successfully used the anti-gravity grenade in several situations:

• When the cashout fell through holes two floors below my position, using the anti-gravity grenade actually made it fly all the way up to where I could steal it while crouched safely outside its radius.

• When the cashout was a floor below, and one of my Medium team mates had the dematerializer spec. Open a hole, raise the cashout with anti-gravity, close the hole: the cashout is now on your floor, away from turrets, mines and more importantly the enemy team. I think this was actually shown in the S2 trailer. It's pretty slow and unreliable, though.

• When defending a cashout, I used the anti-g to make it harder to steal, forcing opponents to get inside the radius and becoming slow floating targets.

• When attacking, I sometimes threw it at my feet while in front of the cashout, making my character and the cashout slowly fly upwards while stealing.

All of these worked in casual modes, and were mostly successful because 1) they were unexpected, and in the midst of chaos, people don't always realize that their cashout is flying in the air 2) most players didn't shoot at the anti-gravity cube, which quickly disables it.

In ranked, with more skilled/experienced players, the cube would be shot at almost immediately any time I tried.

I think it could see more use if it was indestructible, with maybe a wider radius. Same duration, same cooldown.

[restive plover]

I think it's a distance thing.

[marble sail]

which is better medium or ligt

[restive plover]

Medium easily.

[marble sail]

m or h

[elder cloud]

LIGHT

[verbal valley]

Medium

[elder cloud]

dont let the skill less player distract you from the one true king LIGHT

[thorny basin]

it is not, it disappears on any distance