💣┇weapons-gadgets

[inland nova]

guys

[sly estuary]

its hard to make new weapons that arent incredibly niche and uneffective just look at the ks 23 embark buffed it like 5 times but it stil not viable

[wise briar]

We M and H dont have sniper rifles. I want a dragunov and H wants a .50 cal

[inland nova]

i want to start a peoples union to improve thermal vision pls

[digital cipher]

Real. But if you look at Lights, no two lights are the same. Every medium using Fcar mostly though because everything else (besides AKM, and MAYBE Grenade Launcher) don’t hold a candle to it

[sly estuary]

dude snipers for every class would RUIN the game man

the rare light in ranked running sniper is annyoing enoguh, imagine a whole fucking team, and a HEAVY with 350 hp sniping u from a cross the map

[digital cipher]

We don’t need snipers that do MORE damage than the one we already have

[wise briar]

L snipers are already ruinning Powershifts

[sly estuary]

we dont need snipers at all

[sly estuary]

exactly then why the hell do you want snipers for classes that have HIGHER HP

[digital cipher]

It’s good that light is the sniper because they are squishy, which mean I can go sneak up behind them and stun spray them

[sly estuary]

snipers ruin the whole purpose of the game. imagine wiping a team and then getting triple snipe third partied by a team that just respawned (after u wiped them)

[digital cipher]

Also can I just say that I’m SO glad we don’t have bullet drop off?

[wise briar]

Then how are we suppose to counter them accros the other side of the map?

[digital cipher]

Eh, you can defend well if you know what you’re doing.

[sly estuary]

dude im so confused ur like supporting my arguments and contradicting urself

[torn mantle]

Tbh if you saw them then theyre mostly harmless

[wise briar]

No im talking about countering L snipers

[sly estuary]

you really think that medium and heavy snipers will be better and easier to counter than lights?

if you nerf them enough to be actually balkanced then they wont be snipers anymore lmao

[torn mantle]

I barely see any snipers in other game modes besides power shift. I dont think they need a nerf at all

[idle sky]

personally, i don't rly have a rough time with snipers. i never rly understood the stigma around them

[torn mantle]

I dare say snipers are one of few balanced weapons

[wise briar]

Well the H snipers is pretty heavy you know. We dont really have to make their sniper mobility easy to use and also reduce the fire rate significantly with very shit hip fire

[sly estuary]

bro u just joined the chat some people wanna dd snipers to medium and heavy

[torn mantle]

And you were commenting about how "op" light snipers are, and not about medium or heavy snipers

[sly estuary]

what about 350 hp heavies lugging a RPG AND A FRICKING SNIPER

[idle sky]

honestly, add em. idc, they'll balance out somehow

[sly estuary]

it might "balance out" but it would also completely ruin the game lo

[idle sky]

also, rpg shots almost never land when i play. i have never been hit with one

[sly estuary]

maybe u just dont realize it was an rpg

[torn mantle]

Doubt it. In case you ran over the heavy sniper discussion I had with a member previously, there are ways to make snipers for other classes that is both fun and not op

[idle sky]

now they health heavys would have would be an issue, but that could also be adjusted by buffing other classes

[sly estuary]

fun for the people running it, or for the people running against it

[idle sky]

maybe a high movement speed for light and medium to make them harder to track

[torn mantle]

Fun for the people running it, fair against the people against it. Is it ever fun to be killed by any weapon?

[wise briar]

Well like i said, it can be balanced if done right as i mentioned before

[torn mantle]

Your argument is illogical

[wise briar]

Make the hip fire worse for H. Now they will have very hard time against enemies with close range weapons

[sly estuary]

like i said, if u balance it then it wont be a sniper anymore

[sly estuary]

bro, aint no way...

heavy's should be rewarded for close quarter fights

they should make it the farther away the opponent the less damage

[wise briar]

Idk about that. There was never a damage penalty for shooting enemies from any range. Even farther away

Its a sniper. It shouldnt be

[sly estuary]

yeah but then its NOT BALANCED

[torn mantle]

Explain rpg then lol

[wise briar]

Hahahaha

[sly estuary]

thats the whole point of my argument. first of all, snipers are incredibly annoying for anyone not playing against them. for u guys who love snipers, its great, but for the other 99% of the playerbase, it sucks. second, a heavy or medium sniper would be OP due to their increased HP. in an attempt to balance this, then it wouldnt be a sniper anymopre

[sly estuary]

rpgs are not long distnace they are short to medium range their accuracy is ass

[torn mantle]

You yourself said that snipers on top of rpg would be too much range for heavy, so do you retract your previous argument?

[torn mantle]

Tbh I respect snipers who kill me for their aim

[sly estuary]

rpg is more range that most of what heavy runs

[wise briar]

Personally i hate snipers. I dont use them. But do want at least ONE weapon that can counter L snipers. And the FCAR isnt just gonna cut it

[sly estuary]

but it was mostly really op in season 1 when everyone mained sa1216, now heavy has more range with m60 and lewis

[torn mantle]

And if rpg already exists, why shouldnt there also be a long-range weapon on top of the gadget? The finals is a game all about choosing your own weapons and gadgets and specializations and making your own combo. Whats wrong with another type of playstyle?

[sly estuary]

i didnt say that rpg and snipers were too much RANGE for heavy, i said they were too OP lol

[torn mantle]

.

[sly estuary]

cuz then it contradicts the point of the heavy class

[torn mantle]

.

[sly estuary]

dude by ur own argument "the finals is a game all about choosing your own weapons and gadgets" blah blah, then why shouldnt the rpg exist. prob cuz u hate it because ur a medium or light. just deal with it man

[torn mantle]

I just said that theres is no reason for rpg not to exist

[sly estuary]

the heavy having ONE charge of a semi-long range weapon to make up for its inadequacy in that aspect is not gamebreaking

[torn mantle]

Like it should exist lol. Learn to read

[bold ruin]

damn the turret is crazy

[sly estuary]

bro i hate the turret theres no skill involved and it is hella annoying

[bold ruin]

literally a team of three mediums with turrets and defibs is unbeatable no matter how bad they are

[wise briar]

Dude the RPG is not even a main weapon and has a long ass CD and can literally be countered by Aps. How can u even complain about it at this point

[sly estuary]

exactly

[bold ruin]

me and my duo (teammate was kinda bad) outaimed and skilled them in every way but they just had endless defibs and turrets so there was no chance

[bold ruin]

on top of that the rpg barely does anything to mediums and heavies because in the time that it takes to fire and put away they already do the same amount of damage or more, plus it isnt even fully accurate

[wise briar]

You literally just said the rpg is too op

[wise briar]

It doesnt need to be accurate. Just shoot on the ground and they still suffer

[bold ruin]

i find it really annoying because ill aim at a window or smth and itll hit the wall beside it, just a pet peeve i guess

[wise briar]

Now this goes back to my previous feedback about the passive skillsets. Imagine having a "Stealth" passive skill that you can equip where turrets just ignores you

.

[sly estuary]

combined

and i was tryna look at ur perspective because mediums and lights seem to think rpg is hella op so it was just rhetoric

[wise briar]

Not to me it is. My aps is my best friend on the battlefield

[astral mantle]

Please can you make attachments for weapons

[fleet brook]

Nullifying specializations would be shit because you can't change specialization mid match

[wise briar]

.

[wise briar]

👆

[fleet brook]

That box would be mine/ camp heaven

[wise briar]

I doubt any player would waste their 2 limited destroyable mines on a loadout box instead of using them to defend their cashbox

[wise briar]

Go ahead. Camp the loadout box. It makes it much easier to capture the cashout

[bold ruin]

hopefully we get variable sights

[astral mantle]

Yeah

[wise briar]

I honestly dont think embark wants to do that. Even right from the begginning

[fleet brook]

That would also make turrets useless

Making parts of the game useless is bad

[idle oracle]

Has anyone noticed the APS activating through the floor of payload? had a teammate put theirs on the underside and it still seemed to catch things on the top side

[mortal plume]

https://youtu.be/4Vu7CY86nH4 the final prove that the Fcar is better than the akm

[raw wasp]

what are the best guns to use guys?

[torn mantle]

fcar

[quick gate]

Anyone else think a Goo Trap would be cool?

[fleet brook]

Yes it goes through floors

[sullen tree]

It was way too powerful against lights, and still is

Wasn't bad against mediums tho, and it's in a pretty good spot now against meds

The only way they could feasably solve this is by buffing light health to 200, because nerfing RPG damage would unbalance it against medium

But if you're playing light and a heavy even sees you with their RPG out, you're losing over half your health at best

One time I saw a heavy with RPG out, dashed to the side as soon as I did. Out of their LOS. They fired their RPG, still did more than half my health.

[arctic fog]

New gamemode??

[sullen tree]

Ye, apparently

[sullen tree]

RPG used to be able to 1-shot lights off the AOE alone.

Now you have to hit it a bit closer to the light, and It'll do 140 damage. Which puts the light at kill percentage from Literally any weapon besides a single tracking dart shot.

And the AOE seems to only lower the damage to around 80, which is over half light's health.

What this means is that if a heavy is running around with RPG out, they basically can immediately trivialize any light who tries to challenge them. Because even if they pretty much entirely miss, they'll still take more than half the light's health from the AOE. From there it's only about 3 lewis bodyshots to clean up

[fleet brook]

There's a new game mode?

[arctic fog]

this week i think

[bright light]

turrets are horrid

[ancient shadow]

Here’s an idea for a gadget. I think this weapon should be for the heavy basically it’s a anti-tank gun with a 75 or higher shell which would allow a defensive or offensive placement to destroy walls and all classes can use it once it’s placed the downside is the enemy teams can use it as well

I thought process was that you’ve already worked on war-games before so this should be easy

[spare spindle]

wait fcar is actually really balanced

[fleet brook]

Worst medium weapon vs best

[gilded shoal]

Please just get rid of Defib and RPG.

[spare spindle]

or just remove body blocking and the iframes after res finishes

[gilded shoal]

instead of giving a mouse a cookie ad nauseum, just take the L and remove it like Recon.

[twilit field]

is there a reason why the healing beam does not have a white skin from the experience-skin tree?

[fleet brook]

Why remove RPG so heavy can have no utility destruction?

C4 would be the only thing that could reasonably destroy the environment well and well charge but that has no range

And the KS-23 takes half a year and most of your mag to destroy a bit of one wall

[mellow lodge]

don't act like heavies use rpg for for utility

they just look near someone click button and now the other person is dead

[fleet brook]

Me a heavy who actually uses it for map destruction

Because if not my only other ranged destruction option is the ks- 23

Nerf it's damage give it a better CD idc I use it for utility

[mellow lodge]

you don't need ranged destruction

[fleet brook]

Damn sorry I enjoy playing with the destruction elements and the whole reason I picked up heavy

[gilded shoal]

yeah, my bad. hammer, c4, grenade launcher, and charge are all pretty bad at destroying buildings now that i think about it.

keep RPG, let heavies destroy buildings they need it.

[twilit field]

so remove one of the selling points of the game?

[mellow lodge]

give rpg less damage more destruction faster cooldown

[gilded shoal]

this sounds great

[mellow lodge]

if it meant rpg was gone 100%

[fleet brook]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm but

Hammer - gets out ranged by literally everything (solid for destruction tho)
C4 good but there's only one on a decent cd and you gotta be up close

The gre tonade launcher doesn't destroy buildings well it's sub par even to the KS-23
Charge is good I run it but again you have to be close and has no vertical range

[fleet brook]

That's literally what I said bruh

I like arena destruction stop removing heavies arena destruction they took a c4 charge now they're gonna nerf rpg

[mellow lodge]

c4 nerf was dumb af, same as breach nerf

[gilded shoal]

Cool, remove RPG's player damage, increase building damage/area, and reduce the CD or give it two charges.

[fleet brook]

Yeah IDC if c4 and RPG did no damage I'd run them simply cause I enjoy destroying the arena

They'd need to be rebuffed but breach charge deals no damage anyways

[mellow lodge]

i just hate rpg because it instantly removes someone from a fight without requiring any skill at all

[mellow lodge]

breach used to be very good on light because you could quick melee it and it deal it's full damage, now breach is used as a destruction tool that sucks

[gilded shoal]

breach and C4 both need to do so much more building dmg/area than they do currently.

[mellow lodge]

yeah for a game that's building destruction was a selling point the actual destruction kinda sucks

[fleet brook]

It was nerfed

Beta destruction was better

[mellow lodge]

beta was better entirely it seems like from what i have heard

like xp had irons 😭 i want that

[twilit field]

im pretty sure that was to combat against nukes

[mellow lodge]

yes but it also made them both quite bad

[sullen tree]

they massively overnerfed them through the "death by a thousand cuts" style of nerfing they have.

where they dance around the actual issue (C4 damage and blast radius, plus the amount of C4 you get on a respawn) nerfing everything around it, (stacking stuff on barrels, arming time, the fact you can throw and remote detonate it, etc.)

[sullen tree]

it just kills anything overall

if you can put two C4 on a flowerpot and have it function identically to a barrel nuke, the issue is not putting stuff on barrels and throwing them

the issue is clearly with C4

but in some part it's the community's fault. Since even seeing something like a nuke that's half effective would have everyone frothing at the mouth. Even if it had been brought to a perfectly balanced state

[fleet brook]

Tbf that's a funny application of the utility

Or just have it to where you can only have one c4 out at a time

[sullen tree]

honestly, 100%.

it was also in a massive amount of the promotional material. It was intended to be a core mechanic

[fleet brook]

Putting a c4 on an explosive barrel and you have a RPG from wish

The game feels a lot less dynamic then it used to less sand box like

[sullen tree]

ye, and they've removed a lot of stuff from the betas even

prop surfing used to be a thing. Dash used to be just a quick acceleration that you could tie into other cool tech, or curve

we're getting to a point where they're gonna nerf the stuff that you can use high skill expression with, because people complain when they get stomped by someone using it

[fleet brook]

Ig one crazy buff they could give heavy for map presence is

Gravity well can't be shot out

[sullen tree]

people are already starting to eye up dash and sword now that invis is gonna be gutted

[fleet brook]

Because whenever I use it it creates a fun weird play environment but anyone who knows you can shoot it destroys the fun immediately

[gilded shoal]

ngl, I feel awful shooting the cube

I see visions and plans and a game much cooler than the one that we're playing every time I do it.

[boreal laurel]

IKR I’m seeing them all over the place now, even two on the same team

[sullen tree]

oh no, i meant to complain about and get nerfed

[fleet brook]

Lights have movement options and guns and weapons that play on that

Mediums have arena buildings and supportive utility options and entire kits that center around that

Heavy has defensive utility and maybe a little arena destruction

[mellow lodge]

if sword gets nerf i'm fully done with this game

seeing an fcar kids or heavy crying about sword makes me think they truly are fucking dogshit at this game

[fleet brook]

Sword and dash users who are good

Is like trying to swat a fly that's biting your knees

And if you add tazer I'm putting you on a watchlist (joking)

[waxen apex]

Does anyone at embark or in the community managers realize how fuckin impossible it is to level up the data reshaper

[sullen tree]

yea, it can suck ass with those types of gadgets

[waxen apex]

I don’t necessarily hate the gadget. I love the buff from the past patch because the longer range definitely helps. It’s just the XP you gain from switching enemies gadgets, canisters and other things is weak af

I just wanna know what I can do to maximize the XP usage from the gadget itself. Everything you reshape gives you the same XP

[boreal laurel]

😧 I don’t want sword EVER to get nerfed

[sullen tree]

true that. Best balanced melee weapon currently, IMO

[bold ruin]

i have to give it to the dagger and sword lights for scaring the shit outta me while i was peacefully eating and playing

[sullen tree]

lmao, truly a light jumpscare moment. (plus if they're emote cancelling you even get the loud noises)

[bold ruin]

i respect the grind because i personally know how hard it is to do what they do

[sullen tree]

ye, same. Mained dagger for over 100 hours, recently switched to sword

[mellow lodge]

@foggy snow hey zaff do you know the DOT on flamethrower?

[foggy snow]

difficult to test. i assume that it's the same as any other fire DoT

unless, somehow, different sources of fire deal different damage

[mellow lodge]

did the DOT be taken into accoutn with your stat sheet?

also thanks for the response

[foggy snow]

no. when I checked my math against target dummies, they didn't appear to take damage from a DoT while I was shooting

[mellow lodge]

yeah the DoT seems quite buggy sometimes

[foggy snow]

it would be much easier to test all of this precisely

[mellow lodge]

like sometimes i will die in less than a second and be like wtf just happened 😔

[foggy snow]

with a custom game and real test subjects

[foggy snow]

just retested. target dummies don't get DoT'd at all

would love if someone else could confirm if the DoT was applied on top of the 30 damage per shot

or I could take Flamethrower into Quick Cash and do a VOD review, reading the damage charts on death

[mellow lodge]

from how i've been killed by flamethrower after the first shot the DoT is instantly applied

and it is refreshed after every time you are hit by a flame projectile

[glass raptor]

best loadout for sword dash?

[mellow lodge]

stun, vanish, frag/gateway/glitch

[undone dragon]

Stun gun, smoke gernade, thermal vision is what i like

[mellow lodge]

not the 45 second cooldown smoke grenades 😭

[glass raptor]

ig i gotta save for stun

whats the best med build

[mellow lodge]

fcar, zip, jump pad, defib, heal beam

[bitter dirge]

dematerializer riot zipline pyro data reshaper frag

you moving on from light?

Colby's is meta, mine is fun (probably)

frag should probably be replaced with defib though

[novel sundial]

I main demat - zip / defib / (frag or gas mine depending on mode)

And then ofc healbeam for powershift

[bitter dirge]

I love pyro because it can go through floors

[novel sundial]

I love gas because it can go through floors

[bitter dirge]

True, but I've found gas to not cause the enemy to scatter as much as flames

also flames burn goo, which is great for clearing areas

[glass raptor]

nah im jus getting a lil sick of swords terrible hitreg

[novel sundial]

Facts. But that’s the good thing. The less panic, the less likely they are to survive and more likely to die while stealing

[bitter dirge]

I wish that dagger was somewhat good on it's own

[novel sundial]

In my history I’ve probably gotten atleast 50 or so kills from players having an ego battle with the gas while stealing, and all of them failed

[bitter dirge]

you pretty much need cloak or dash for it to work at all, and both are likely to be nerfed soon when in reality, everything else just needs a buff

[novel sundial]

Nah that’s js you man I get shit on by swords like it’s nothing

[bitter dirge]

the problem with light isn't that the xp and cloak are too viable, just that they are viable at all

[novel sundial]

Facts

[bitter dirge]

do you combo with dash?

[glass raptor]

the hitreg is famously horrendous

[novel sundial]

I went to logic town and eveyone knew you

[glass raptor]

yeah

[bitter dirge]

try cloaknade for added surprise factor, and jump them from behind. If you're not constantly moving around, you will get lit up very fast

[novel sundial]

I guess it’s a double jeopardy situation cuz I was on the other side of a wall and a sword wall banged me in the face (it went through the wall and into my eyes)

[bitter dirge]

Also, https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-i-have-the-high-ground-gif-4939538

[novel sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-embed-discord-embed-rage-gif-21044991

[bitter dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-i-have-the-high-ground-gif-4939538

[novel sundial]

Oh shit. Well that’s ironic

[bitter dirge]

the feds stole my embed perms 😒

[mellow lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-gif-25450763

[novel sundial]

I sent and epic embed fail and it failed to embed

[glass raptor]

yeah i do, most of my deaths are just getting deleted from mid range or hitreg problems

[bitter dirge]

join the dark side and use riot shield! Someone shooting you? just say no!

[novel sundial]

You js playing good players. Gold and plat players all loose their shit when a sword starts dashing around and deleting

[bitter dirge]

they legally can't damage you

[novel sundial]

Yeah but getting premium backshots from both ways is a darn diabolical way to go out, and I’d rather have an Ak to kill atleast one of them before I’m deleted yk

[bitter dirge]

Skill based matchmaking and my teammate has a final combat score of 150, the other is constantly going afk for minutes at a time, and the enemy kills in milliseconds

[bitter dirge]

dematerialize the floor for an easy getout

[novel sundial]

I had a dude afk in ranked and I ran outta credits and never got to play and I couldn’t leave either. I just had to watch the city collapse into nothing as my army perished to inactivity

[bitter dirge]

this man brought a dagger to a placement match, then did nothing for our team for the entire match, ragequit once, then just threw the rest of the game

[novel sundial]

Shit u right but who’s giving Double sided beamies in a building. This is like exterior schnanigans

[bitter dirge]

materialize a wall behind you 🧌

bet you didn't think of that, huh?

[novel sundial]

Nah like like, out in the wild type shit. Also the wall behind me is gonna be the guy giving the 10% ethanol backshots

[novel sundial]

I’ve thought of everything, all 14,007,092,634 possibilities (I’m Dr. Strane-r in a white candy van)

[bitter dirge]

ddos them and grind their ping to 4000 for 6 seconds, giving you enough time to whack them both and run across the map

[novel sundial]

Ah. Didn’t think of that one ☝️

Damn that shit funny asl ngl I gtg to bed I’m running off humor rn

[bitter dirge]

the trick is to become a bisexual vampire, steal your adopted brother's body, and learn to stop time

after you've done that, I think you can win pretty much any encounter

[bitter dirge]

god gives his bestliest honk mimimis to his sleepiest soldiers 🫡

[novel sundial]

Man wth does that mean 😭

OHH. Like snoring i think

“Honk… mimimmimi” type shit

[bitter dirge]

exactly ‼️

[sullen tree]

https://tenor.com/view/shadow-dio-dio-brando-jojos-bizarre-adventures-jjba-windy-gif-16866413

[bitter dirge]

dagger throwing with a time slow ability would go so hard and you can't convince me otherwise

[sullen tree]

true

[torn mantle]

Agree

[bitter dirge]

Bullet time: Slow time around you in a 25 meter circle radius to a quarter of the regular speed for 3 seconds. you retain your normal speed.

[torn mantle]

Especially is you dont slpw yourself but prpjectiles are slowed. Like imagine just filling up the space around an enemy with knives while they watch in horror

[bitter dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/dio-the-world-dagger-throw-gif-13331615

[sullen tree]

https://tenor.com/view/dio-the-world-dagger-throw-gif-13331615

[bitter dirge]

thank you

[torn mantle]

Exactly that

[sullen tree]

no prob

[bitter dirge]

I think it would be best if it didn't completely stop time, but slow it to a fraction to add the possibility of a clutch, or to shatter someone's hopes even more

imagine getting time slowed and still somehow managing to kill them

or slowing time and almost dying, but living with a sliver of health while they try to run away

[torn mantle]

I think that if theres a time slow, it should be in an area, so bullets incoming are also as slow as the ones going towards

[bitter dirge]

25 circular meters seems fair to me

like 25 in each direction from the caster

but should it be a placed thing, or should it be a surround user ability

because you could give a cool watch interaction by literally stopping time with the press of a button

[torn mantle]

Isnt that a bit much?

Okay thats true

[long oar]

[fast mulch]

[rugged bear]

Make the KS-23 have accurate Iron sights not some stupid squint mechanic.

[turbid perch]

I think thats the point

[orchid arch]

Is there an up to date TTK/DPS chart?

[mellow lodge]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/edit#gid=2136619021

[orchid arch]

ty!

[soft juniper]

Melee auto aim sucks ass I was gona hammer swing a light right infront of me and my screen 180 and aimed for a full hp heavey behind me?

[fleet brook]

Didn't know light had two out of the 3 fastest ttk guns

[mellow lodge]

m11 and what else?

[fleet brook]

M11 and V9S SH-800 (unreliable because shotgun but still). The other classes standard's for killing a medium in body shots tends to be .90+

Light does have some of the highest ttk guns only matched in medium with by model shotgun (in terms of Killin other mediums)

If your wondering why I'm using mediums as a base for HP in the game and not comparing medium to killing light is because it's a good baseline not a heavy with an absurd amount of HP compared to everyone else but also not a light they're the middle ground so a nice control point

Also because I see mediums the most

[novel sundial]

Heavy is just a light + a medium + a lil dash of 50

Medium is a light + a light minus a lil dash of 50

Light is just a medium minus a big sprint of 100

L + M + 50 = H
L + L - 50 = M
M - 100 = L

[fleet brook]

That is a good chart for reference

But mediums seem to be well the medium/ average HP point and are currently the most present class because of Meta

[glass raptor]

whats the best heavy build

[novel sundial]

No

[novel sundial]

M for meta. Every diamond team is all mediums

[nocturne ledge]

Just wondering, seeing as the sniper says melee weapon does it actually count to dailies that require melee damage? or is it just poor wording haha

[novel sundial]

Nah it’s a hunting rifle in technical terms

[fleet brook]

No poor wording

[novel sundial]

Sniper and LH1 count towards hunting rifle challenge. For melee use sledge or riot or sword

[nocturne ledge]

So the sniper counts for the marksman/handgun? Sorry just still confused 😅

[modern blade]

a hunting pistol for medium

[violet cosmos]

turn the light pistol into a deagle

[grizzled apex]

Please give us cute skins for the Xp54

[bold ruin]

can we get a reskin of the rocket launcher thats just a pool noodle with the hole in it? Yk when you like fill up the pool noodle with water and then blow really hard in one end and it becomes a cannon? Can we have that?

[bold ruin]

what defines cute

[earnest stone]

Imagine cosmetic attachments for the guns, no changes on the stats purely cosmetic things

[desert apex]

thats working for me with sniper

[restive plover]

Me

[bold ruin]

like a flashlight or grip?

[bold ruin]

so true

[frail mango]

Buff the grappler

[bold ruin]

the thing for the light?

[frail mango]

Ya

[grizzled apex]

Like I like the kawaii paws set but it's not for xp54

[frail mango]

Range sucks

[bold ruin]

ah i see, yeah itd be cool to see more variety in skins for every weapon

[bold ruin]

i get that but i feel that the mobility advantage of lights is already really good, i think the grapple is a decent gadget for the time being, an extension in range might make it too easy to leave fights that were poorly chosen, or as crossmap mobility (i guess thats part of the gadget but yk too much is also op). I dont play light that often so take my word with a grain of salt i guess

[frail mango]

I main light and the light class should be picking poor fights and dealing quick damage and then quickly escaping

But yk wut I mean by poor fight cuz your team should be on your ass helping.

[bold ruin]

yea you right, idk it seems to be doing alright in the meta

[frail mango]

Also when I’m trying to get into a fight I can cuz the range sucks

[vernal rover]

Whats an optimal riot shield loadout?

[drifting bronze]

Medium has more mobility options tho, with the jump pad and the zipline

So yeah, buff grapple 😭

[little fog]

I try to lean into support if I have the shield, Healing gun, paddles, Pyro, zip/jump pad, flashbang. Because of how close you have to get to the enemy, you'll want to be just as close to the team. Combat won't be that hig unless your nice like that, but you'll lead in support everytime.

[vernal rover]

Thank you

[little fog]

Np

[earnest stone]

Yea, imagine like for 200 crowns (idk whats name of the coin for buying guns/artefacts) u can buy a silencer or a foregrip that doesn’t give u any buff but makes ur gun look 200% cooler

[carmine willow]

i just ranked up to plat 4, do i have to wait until the end of the season to receive the gold m60?

[honest yoke]

need more smgs

[crude loom]

I think we need a high power bow for lights, very low ttk, medium-high range but with some arrow drop, high reload time, but the ability to move around at a slighty slower pace while loaded. you could hit some nasty snipes with it but it would be high skill to do so to discourage people from sitting back

[analog terrace]

why are the cool skins always restricted to three guns. There are cool skins but most of the time not for the gun i want them for, is that so hard to implement? And i dont mean the crazy wood Skin pack for excample i mean just the simple skins

[hallow leaf]

I feel like mines are going to be amazing in the new game mode

[analog terrace]

very powerful for sure

[sullen tree]

let it grab people, or have two charges and faster reload. I wanna attack on titan this bitch

[frail mango]

LOL

[sullen tree]

sword grapple should be a thing, lol

[frail mango]

facts

[brisk delta]

Am I the only one who wants moddable weapons in the finals?

I’ll take that as a yes

[analog terrace]

I think it would be cool, but i dont think that THE FINALS needs that. I think the core of THE FINALS are the cool Game modes. I dont know what weapon attachments would do for the game i think the balancing would also be a lot harder

[brisk delta]

Yeah true, but still it would be cool

[analog terrace]

But I had the thought too if this would be cool. Because there would be a new point to play because you have more to unlock

[stone stump]

So I’ve just hit plat 1 with only riot shield. Having experimented a fair amount I can tell you the absolute best loadout is heal gun, zipline, APS, defib. Prioritize healing teammates and bunkering with APS, whack anyone who’s in range but don’t chase those that run from you unless they’re last one alive

[eternal urchin]

anyone else explosive mine wont level up? just stuck at full bar

[analog terrace]

works for me

[boreal laurel]

Sweet, that’s what I use too. I just usually swap mines instead of APS.

[fleet brook]

Sledge sucks

Worst heavy weapon by far

[stone stump]

I keep mines in reserve, usually bring them out for final round to place on enemy totems 🤙

[cedar elm]

Wuts the key differences between knife and sword?

Like ik knife deal some heavy backstab damage but wut about sword? I don't see an advantage other than longer reach?

[warm cove]

impact nades 90 dmg, high arena damage (light class) cryo nades slow weapon fire rate and gaget recharge (medium) knockback nade pushes enemy 5-10 meters from impact zone (heavy)

shield bubble should behave like gibraltars shield from apex. player permiable but doesnt allow people to shoot through it. In its current state it is atrocious.

[formal monolith]

Why does your rank go down 2 times in the fianls and what cause it to do that? I really like help with that?

[grizzled sundial]

controversial opinion, heavy mesh shield/dome shield should get a buff due to glitch mines/grenades instantly taking them out

[sullen tree]

glitch mines and nades got nerfed so incredibly heavily by having their duration literally halved already, I think it's fine as it is.

[boreal laurel]

I agree. Both of them have been absolutely gutted in the last several nerfs, to the point where they are barely even useful anymore. So yes, I agree with you totally

[boreal laurel]

It really is mostly about reach, as well as speed. Sword can lunge to cover distance a lot faster than dagger ever can, and you can lunge from any angle, not just behind. Dagger is high-risk high-reward, sword is more well-rounded

[soft shale]

I disagree, both are still very strong and used extensively. I've been mostly playing Heavy since S1, and to me, these changes should stay. Including the glitch grenade disabling shields on impact.

Well unless you want to keep that very stale competitive gameplay with Heavies sitting endlessly behind shields with healers.

[thorny flower]

When do they put new weapons in?

[thorn meadow]

CROSSBOW

[thorny flower]

some m4 for medium would be good

[wooden cairn]

with how much lights are hated? naw mesh and dome are fine

[wise briar]

Can we have mannable turrets on the battlefield?

[karmic narwhal]

Can't say how many times I have accidentally grappled, or grappled the wrong thing, but it happens more often than I am comfortable admitting, and yet other times, I grapple a wall too short and am unable to grapple again to correct for it, or even cancel the grapple. I would love to have grapple hook recharge based on distance grappled or travelled with grapple, with up to two or even three charges, but only at very short ranges. It would, of course, also need to increase cooldown dynamically per charges used within a rolling [normal/current cooldown duration time in seconds] window, with each additional charge used increasing recharge by no less than 65-85%, with the increases stacking in tandem (or in layers, depending on what performs best)

this would allow for greater flexibility if you accidentally tap your grapple in closed quarters, or want to chain a few swings alongside a building.

[cosmic tide]

i cannot wait for stun gun nerf, i just got killed with stun gun, revived, then killed by another stun gun IMMEDIATELY

i gotta take a break so i dont have to buy a new keyboard, i just left that game and joined a different one and the first thing i got shot with was a stun gun

[mellow lodge]

what gun were you using?

[cosmic tide]

i was using famas, but i usually use 1887 so i dont notice it as much with that

each time i almost killed them, so if they just lower the time it lasts at the VERY least, i think i'll be happy with it

[mellow lodge]

well the time it lasts won't change how fast you die to a light tbf

if only the famas was better

[cosmic tide]

fair, honestly when you think about it idk what you can do to make it fun to play against

[mellow lodge]

yeah stun just isn't fun to play against

[cosmic tide]

its kinda like recon senses, what are you supposed to do to counter it?'

[mellow lodge]

i think people kinda target one thing when they are angry at something

[cosmic tide]

i shouldn't need to reshape my whole playstyle against someones one gadget choice

[mellow lodge]

like rpg and defib are just as unfun to play against but people don't complain about that 😔

[cosmic tide]

honestly dont have an issue with either of these, i dont need to change the way i play because of them

defib isn't as strong now that its not insant, and rpg can't 1 hit a light anymore

[mellow lodge]

now look at the meta of double rpg existing and now a medium gets deleted instantly, and i'd argue defib is stronger than before

as rn defib block players and blocks bullets now

[cosmic tide]

nvm, i did math wrong

[sullen tree]

be halfway evasive, cause it's a projectile? adequately hipfire?

[cosmic tide]

i can't evade something i can't see

[sullen tree]

with the amount of damage RPG does it might as well.

10 HP doesn't mean much in a game where each AR bullet does 30 or so

[cosmic tide]

thats a bug though

[mellow lodge]

still annoying as fuck and nothing has been done about it

[sullen tree]

then just spin around and adequately hipfire. Unless I'm running melee weapons, I never have any issue with a stun player

[cosmic tide]

spin how? it lowers your dpi

[sullen tree]

no it doesn't, it hasn't done that since the betas

they literally removed that functionality, it's in the patchnotes, lmao

[cosmic tide]

fr?

[sullen tree]

ye, it was like that in open beta, I think

then it got nerfed to no DPI decrease on release

[cosmic tide]

def not in open beta, i remember my friend quitting because he hated the dpi thing so much after launch

[sullen tree]

I think he was just genuinely tweaking then

cause it has never been in the actual release of the game.

[modern jay]

Random ideas:
Blast Rocket
low damage, high knockback. shoot enemies to keep them away, shoot teammates to boost them forward, or at the floor to rocket jump!

Virus Dart
shoots a dart which instantly applies the hacked status effect to the enemy hit.

Phase
Allows you to phase through walls for a short duration. crouch to phase downwards

[sullen tree]

lemme bring in a few more lights to back me up, lol

[modern jay]

i suck at names im sure you guys can make better ones

[cosmic tide]

regardless though, it is hard to get kills with a prescision weapon without the ability to do anything but sit there and kind of aim at the guy

[sullen tree]

true, but 90% of the weapons in this game aren't precision. (and even with precision weapons, I find the high bodyshot damage is enough to slaughter a stun light. They also have pretty good hipfire)

like revolver, you can kinda melt them with even while stunned. If you get stunned as a light you're just dead, but that's Light on Light TTK being the bigger issue

[cosmic tide]

this point right here is exactly my point, i shouldn't have to use a weapon i do not want to in order to deal with one gadget, that just is not fun to do

you can deal with rpg spam with any weapon, you can deal with defib spam with any weapon (if you can fight a team twice), you can fight turret spam with any weapon, but stun gun spam you cannot use presicion weapons

[sullen tree]

well unfortunately people have to run stuff that's not melee just so they can deal with mines that take 90% of their HP, or take stuff like stun just so the heavy doesn't immediately win with RPG spam

[cosmic tide]

i agree with the mines part, but to be fair that is literally what a mine is designed to do, stop you from getting near where its placed

[sullen tree]

it isn't even nearly invalidated by stun spam, the hipfire on revolver is very accurate. RPG spam on a light also LITERALLY has no counter. The blast is enough to catch you if you dodge, if the heavy opens the fight with it, you're just NOT killing them fast enough. The only thing that can stop RPG spam is APS

[cosmic tide]

you can deal with a heavy without using stun gun, i mained light all the way up until season 2 from the closed beta, you can in fact kill them

[sullen tree]

of course, but rarely if they open with the damn RPG. Which does free 140 damage max or 80 damage minimum

they have to actually suffer a stroke IRL to first miss with that thing, and then suffer another not to clean you up when you're 10 HP

[sullen tree]

and a stungun is desgined to incapacitate and disrupt the muscle functions of an enemy, that's what it's designed to do. Your point being?

[cosmic tide]

have you ever in your life seen videos of how people in florida react to when they get shot by one of those? they just tank it and keep walking

[sullen tree]

those people are often so hopped up on adrenaline and emphetamines that their muscles simply do not respond

a normal person loses muscular function and drops like a stone. The vids are funny cause they're the exception

[cosmic tide]

and i do not mean this in any insulting way, but this sounds like a skill issue, i have had zero issue outgunning heavies because i can just dodge their bullets and use lights high ttk to kill them before they kill me

[mellow lodge]

military people get stopped by a tazer thats how bad a tazer is

[cosmic tide]

i have evasive dash to let me jump side to side out of their bullets, if you have grapple you can grapple behind them, or if you use invis you shouldn't be getting into a fair one on one fight with a heavy because thats not what invis is for, hence why they raised the initial drain so people stop using it to pop in and out of invis

[sullen tree]

you have no problem dealing with a heavy, when they start the match off by stealing over half your health for free.

yet cannot hipfire adequately enough to deal 150 damage in a game that hands that amount out for practically free

[cosmic tide]

you don't let them hit that rpg shot, and if they do, you run

ALSO, it is much easier for an enemy with a high ttk to kill a sitting duck, then a fast moving target

[mellow lodge]

😔 why everyone sayin light have high ttk thats such a fucking joke 😔

[sullen tree]

and by the time I heal, they have another RPG.

additionally, by running and taking yourself out of the fight, they have won. You are going to spend nearly a respawn timers worth of time healing up. They've fully taken you out of the fight for a not-inconsiderable amount of time.

The heavy also has to be nearly braindead to not hit at LEAST 80 damage from any popular engagement range. I have seen heavies with RPG out, logged what they were going to do, dashed to the side far out of line of sight, and still gotten tagged for over half my health while doing EVERYTHING right.

additionally, while you're a "sitting duck" you have a higher effective TTK on the light than they have on you. You have a higher effective TTK on the light in general, unless you're also running light

AND it isn't even hard to hit.

weapons like FCAR have higher TTK on lights than light weapons have on medium with all fuckin' bodyshots

[cosmic tide]

rpg has a 20 second cooldown

thats just not true, respawn takes anywhere from 20-30 seconds, healing takes probably 10 maybe less on light

while pure damage might be true, again, it is much easier to be the one shooting the sitting duck, then the one shooting the moving target flying around you

[mellow lodge]

RPD'S COOLDOWN IS 20 FUCKING SECONDS? THAT HAS TO BE A JOKE 😭

[sullen tree]

it doesn't take any less on light.

it's a global healing time

[cosmic tide]

you have less health to heal

[sullen tree]

I know right, smoke's is 45 seconds lmfao

[sullen tree]

the healing in this game is so fast once it kicks in that that is more an issue of milliseconds or single second, not multiple

[cosmic tide]

fair point tbh

[sullen tree]

all you have to hit is bodyshots with a faster TTK hitscan weapon, from hipfire with no aiming penalty tho

and then we get into heavy guns, which are actually also horrid to fight, besides the slug and sledge, sledge because it's melee, and slug because it's ass

flamer is only hard to fight really if you have a close range weapon like DB or melee

[mellow lodge]

you excited for the new game mode to have 5 heavies as the the meta?

[sullen tree]

honestly the area I will agree on you with stun is when it hits a melee user. There is zero recourse in that situation

[cosmic tide]

1887 requires me to line up the shot i do get perfectly, famas requires me to hit my bursts perfectly, akm is easier to kill the light with you're right

[sullen tree]

the 1887 you're just gonna be hipfiring at that range anyways, the famas is just generally bad tbh, AKM and Fcar are busted.

[cosmic tide]

i can't speak too much on stun vs heavy since i don't play it, but, from my experience, in a fair 1v1 yeah heavy wins, but you shouldn't be going head on 1v1 with a heavy

[sullen tree]

but you're not, you're using a tool that apparently makes it so you tilt the match in your favour

[mellow lodge]

guys patch will surely make the famas, 93r, and ks meta right? right? 😔

[cosmic tide]

but if i enjoy the famas, why should someone elses loadout choices dictate how i can play

[mellow lodge]

welcome to lights entire existence

[cosmic tide]

also, just loaded into a practice range to test this, it is actually 45 seconds, i had a feeling that was too short

[sullen tree]

that is the entirety of light class right now. You are LOCKED into invis bomb unless you're actually god or want to die horribly and get nothing done

[cosmic tide]

when i play light, i use what i like, and i do just fine

[mellow lodge]

ranked?

[sullen tree]

yea, finally, it's on level with the broken gadget that is the smoke grenades. Every day I thank embark for protecting us from their smoky wrath

[cosmic tide]

i don't even have the invis bomb UNLOCKED 😭

[sullen tree]

ranked is an entirely different beast even, TBH

[cosmic tide]

i am strictly against it because last time i played had an afk tm8 who just taped his controller and started being toxic to us so i dont go near it

[mellow lodge]

light stomps pubs because people be braindead af and nobody sticks as a team

[cosmic tide]

my one and only experience from launch, do not need it

[mellow lodge]

omg zaff is here, hi zaff

[sullen tree]

people can actually lose so much in pubs to the dumbest shit. Had a heavy flamer that couldn't even PERCIEVE me with sword one time

[cosmic tide]

thats definitely true, i don't play with randoms though, i have at least 1 other person with me at all times

[sullen tree]

that may also contribute to you not seeing light as trash or restricted

[foggy snow]

it's not even hard to buff 93R and FAMAS. Simple fire rate and burst delay changes will go a long way for them.

[sullen tree]

I don't play light in ranked because there are genuinely people who autoreport light players for "sandbagging". (they bragged about it in this fucking discord)

[cosmic tide]

possibly, but when i play light im ngl im a HORRIBLE tm8 to my friends, run in there and 1v3 an entire team

[foggy snow]

[cosmic tide]

that im not surprised about, some people are crazy dumb here 😭

[foggy snow]

Just waiting on 2.6 to see what spreadsheet updates I'll have to do

I'm hoping it'll be a lot.

[mellow lodge]

you'll need to remove all light weapons because light is going to be deleted 😂

[sullen tree]

ye

[foggy snow]

if Embark is balancing around quick cash then yeah, sadly Light's gonna die

but to be fair, he should not rely on degen game mechanics to be useful

[mellow lodge]

we already know embark balances around casual though

[foggy snow]

cloak and stun are the two most cancerous things you can have in a shooter

haven't seen a single shooter where people didn't complain about them

[cosmic tide]

welcome to the conversation, that is literally what we have been talking about for 20 minutes now lol

[sullen tree]

but then the light might be able to take a fair 1v1? and that's not supposed to be the point of light

[cosmic tide]

you can just use light to get the jump on people with your invis, or you should make it hard for them to hit you with dash and grapple

[sullen tree]

people will contradict themselves by saying that the point of light is to take an unfair 1v1, or use mobility to gain an advantage.

then get pissed light takes unfair 1v1s, and is really fucking hard to hit if people play it correctly.

is what I'm getting at

[foggy snow]

Also, if they change HP values for Light (and Heavy, to maintain "symmetry" in class differences)

they have to rebalance every single weapon in the game, around the new breakpoints for shots-to-kill

[sullen tree]

I just want light to have 200HP, I feel that'd fix a lot of the issues with weapons on light while still keeping the balance with heavy and med intact

[sullen tree]

they already hardly do that for light anyways

[foggy snow]

especially on high damage per shot weapons like revolver, LH1, etc.

[mellow lodge]

do not make me have to left click a light with sword

[cosmic tide]

i don't get pissed at anything that gives light an advantage, im pissed at things that give ME a disadvantage, such as not being able to move

if you get the jump on me and surprise attack me, thats fair, thats your class, but if i can't adequetly fight you to the best of my ability after you get the jump on me, or after you use your mobility to waste my ammo, then thats not fun

[sullen tree]

that's what gives light an advantage?

flanking is something ANY class can do

[mellow lodge]

no way did he just describe lights existence without cloak?

[foggy snow]

for example, I've done spreadsheeting with 175/250/325 HP split across classes. If they don't change weapons, then LH1 will be the best gun in the game at all ranges, and the FCAR will be even more broken.

so yeah, lots of rebalancing to do if they change HP

[cosmic tide]

you have cloak that i can barely see to flank me that much easier, i can't shoot what i can't see

you have grapple to give yourself instant high ground/escape routes

you have dash to make it impossible to shoot you unless the person you are fighting is S tier at the game

THAT is what gives you an advantage, not JUST flanking

[foggy snow]

I'm just hoping that they give significant buffs to Dash and Grapple (perhaps making them more spammable, or increasing their distance/acceleration)

[sullen tree]

impossible to shoot me unless they're S TIER?

LMFAO, more like played ultrakill ONCE in their damn life, or a quick movement shooter

[mellow lodge]

dash is so easy to track, picking grapple is the worst choice in this game you can make, and cloak is getting an even worse nerf this week to make it actually useles

[cosmic tide]

LMFAO yeah, that game makes you crazy good at aiming. S tier game for S tier shooting skills

[foggy snow]

I'd love to do dive n' dip strats with Grapple, but the cooldown takes forever

[cosmic tide]

fr, i wish it was more available, would try it out more on light if it were

[foggy snow]

it was probably meant for easy high-ground access for Light to do sniping things

but we all know how bad sniping is, outside of power shift

[cosmic tide]

probably, but it would be so much more fun, and would be so much more useful if you didn't need to be super conservative with your usage of it

[cosmic tide]

but no ultrakill aside, if you can use the dash unpredictably and in good places, it makes it really hard to get shot. thats what i use when i play light

its really fun too, being able to jump out a window, then back in through a different window is really fun, and if they can't find me, the 10 second timer to heal starts and i am back to full health

[sullen tree]

High ground advantage can be gained more quickly and reliably by a medium with jump pad, or a heavy with goo gun (if they know any basic tech.)

invis is being nerfed to make it a LOT less visible.

and honestly I've never had an issue tracking dash perfectly in this game. If I'm using melee, it's more often an issue of "how do I catch up to this fucker"

[sullen tree]

I like running in through windows, then standing right next to them with sword lunge, gets them literally every time, lmao

[cosmic tide]

heavy with a goo gun?? i never see that but maybe thats just me

i definitely do not agree with the invis changes, i think it should stay and i never use invis

[sullen tree]

ye, and goo gun actually has a lot of potential and power

[foggy snow]

Goo Gun takes some getting used to, but the movement + annoying defense strats that you can do with it

[sullen tree]

if used correctly, it's like a much more powerful stun in some ways, lmfao

[foggy snow]

all severely underrated

[cosmic tide]

its fun going against invis because i don't feel the need to change how i play to kill them, but i feel like its a horror game where they could pop out at any moment, the suspense is kinda fun

[sullen tree]

oh 100%, but I'm glad it's that way. It could be so oppressive if people put in the work

[cosmic tide]

i've seen clips of this yeah

[foggy snow]

sadly Mesh is still a braindead easy panic button for poor positioning so unless Mesh gets gutted, Slam and Goo Gun won't see a lotta use.

[sullen tree]

if I'm playing light, I'll just die instantly unless I fine them

[sullen tree]

slam is also a braindead easy panic button. The amount of times the heavy takes over 90% of my health with an instant charge or slam that's not at all telegraphed is major

[foggy snow]

close range bruiser heavy build 🥲

[cosmic tide]

yeah i get WHY they did it, but i dont think they should do that. i think rebalancing the weapons and making lights a little more viable for the average person by giving them more health would be better then gutting things that are fun to make light better

which obviously, would be SIGNIFICANTLY more work

but i feel the long term payoff would be better overall

[cosmic tide]

i really only use mesh to get closer to people with sledge, past that it hasn't been good for much else since the betas

[sullen tree]

goo gun is better for that, IMO

[cosmic tide]

yeah i just don’t play heavy enough to be good with it, mesh is just simpler when i’m trying to do stupid shit with a comically large spoon

[sullen tree]

lol, fair

[sullen tree]

since the heavy GL functions not off travel time but instead off of the number of bounces (every nade must bounce at least once).

as such you can do what I'm calling goo cycling.

you goo an enemy, then fire two GL shots downwards at their feet, so it bounces off the gound and goo, exploding immediately

you swap back to goo, and automatically shoot it again to goo them again.

repeat until they're dead.

I'll test it more tomorrow, but this might be a bit stupid TBH

[analog terrace]

sounds like an idea XD

[plucky lance]

#💣┇weapons-gadgets can you add a hand canon for light so it has a explosive wepon and all classe have a weapon if it add it has 1 or 2 shots and can get easy kills

[past patrol]

i love slam

[fading crater]

Goo breaks faster than 2 shots, or even 1 propably

[grizzled sundial]

we might be getting an m4 for heavy at some point, maybe next season

[spare acorn]

If I'll dematerialize a floor with mines on it; when they fall, will they be destroyed by an APS turret?

[glass mason]

Feels like they should

[pallid veldt]

is the smoke grenade any good for yall? Me and my lil bro tried playing but e said the smoke is not good enough. any thoughts from you guys?

[mellow lodge]

smoke would be usuable if it didn't have a 45 second cool down

[pallid veldt]

I saw the strat in a meme post but seems like its still visible with low graphics settings on

[glass mason]

You gotta throw both usually. Smoke isn't bad, but... it's very niche to hide health bars but I've also won faces by getting caps with it where no one knew where I was to shoot me

[pallid veldt]

true. I just need a third and some good coordination. I think it only really shines until then such as having a Heavy stealing while Medium constantly heals The heavy.

[spare acorn]

+, I think they shoud at least do it like 20-25 seconds

[merry oasis]

im seriously in love with the anti-gravity cube, it’s super fun to play around with. thank you, embark, for your amazing and cool gadgets :)

[pallid veldt]

how would you use the anti-gravity grenade?

[merry oasis]

i personally find it really cool to lift random props and cashout stations up into the air with the item

[sleek pond]

very good for stealing cashouts in certain situations , and it is also really good to defend the cashout if you are in a right place

[acoustic schooner]

movement specilization for light to replace grapple. you would be able to wallrun superjump faster slide speed

[soft shale]

^ I think this would actually be very cool if implemented right, but am afraid it would make evasive dash seem like a worse option

[pallid veldt]

is it still possible to put a Medium Turret on props?

[chilly pivot]

How would use the gateway

[sullen tree]

It would be useable if it didn't have a cooldown as long as an RPG, lmao

[wind folio]

cl40 is busted, i mean you dont have to really aim and it does big damage, two shots lights

[sleek pond]

aps:

[shrewd flower]

VCAR

There could be also an argument for AKM, if you are using medic beam

Model 1887 is great but requires precision, otherwise Its DPS tanks

[restive plover]

Shoot outside the ring instead of hucking grenades straight at it and you can damage both the turret and the people in the ring.

[sleek pond]

ye but isnt that enough time for you to get killed? with how inconsistent it already is ...

[restive plover]

It shouldn't be. You can also peek and shoot to be extra safe.

[alpine ledge]

Man tbh that stun gun ts be killing my mood more than anything ppl using the heal that’s basically a free kill

[wind folio]

what if no medium

[thorn meadow]

add crossbow

[real wave]

Literally getting changed Thursday

[worldly gust]

add a lazer

[arctic fog]

I thought update was tomorrow

[real wave]

May 2nd is what I saw which happens to be Thursday in est American time. I know devs aren’t American though so it might be tomorrow 🧑🏼‍🦯

[arctic fog]

Oh ok we'll see ig

Fingers crossed they don't destroy light bc it's the most fun class to play (personally)

[cosmic tide]

i think it will be <t:1714608000>

thats when new challenges come out usually for me

unless im crazy and thinking its a day earlier than normal

[arctic fog]

Hope not

For me updates are usually on Wednesday

[cosmic tide]

ok then yeah it should be that day

[cosmic tide]

i think the invis nerf will be unnecesary once the stun gun nerf is out, i just want stun gun gone

[real wave]

The trailer says may 2nd though

[cosmic tide]

their studio isn't in america, it could be the morning of may 2nd

it is currently May 1st, 3:15am where their studio is located

[thorn meadow]

may2nd

[foggy snow]

2.6 absolute nail biter

😨

[arctic fog]

Fr

We all know what the community is waiting for:

Motion sensor buff

[spare spindle]

(Fcar nerfs)

[swift cradle]

Stun gun nerfs will be funny because most players with decent awareness already could still beat lights even after getting hit by the stun gun.

[spare spindle]

Yes cause heavy and medium meta primary weapons are stupid

[arctic fog]

Fr tbh stun gun is only good in the right hands

[spare spindle]

Stun gun is best for stopping steals

[arctic fog]

They should reduce stun duration and increase cooldown

[swift cradle]

This is my favorite application for stun gun imo

[foggy snow]

Watch Heavy get nerfed again

and still, double heavy will be a thing until season 3

[arctic fog]

Hope not heavy is already not that fun to play

[swift cradle]

Removing that will make me more sad than hitting someone for a free kill tbh.

That type of utility is unique.

[arctic fog]

Although you're probably cracked at it

[foggy snow]

heavy was the least played class since release AFAIK

the slow playstyle is always niche in every fast-paced shooter, and not for everyone

but this game is particular makes 'em cheesy as hell, esp. in a ranked environment, due to all of the shield stacking, panic buttons like RPG and Slam, etc.

[arctic fog]

If heavy had at least one movement gadget or smth I'm sure it would get more playtime

Other than charge and slam ofc

[spare spindle]

Nothing is wrong with double heavy being meta as long as it’s in a healthy way (not rn)

The issue with double heavy is that it’s the best offense possible despite being the defensive class

[foggy snow]

it's overloaded with multiple sources of damage, yeah

[spare spindle]

God bless the Lewis gun and rpg

[foggy snow]

from having excellent close range weapons, to having the RPG

on top of being a traditional tank/bruiser

fixing RPG is easy as hell. just make the splash damage weak and inconsequential, and the direct hit damage strong and crippling

[spare spindle]

I think it should have good close range weapons, given the fact it’s the defense class. But they might be a little too good and also the Lewis is horseshit from range

[foggy snow]

I honestly don't think his weapons should deal as much damage as they do now, considering his massive health pool

[spare spindle]

My idea was to lower damage to 80 and remove splash fall off entirely to encourage shooting teams instead of 1 person. But this would also be a good fix

[spare spindle]

Maybe tbh. I think the m60 is a good standard for what a heavy weapon should be. Assuming the rpg was in a more balanced spot

[foggy snow]

M60 is perhaps the perfect middleground

feels great up close, but falls off quickly even at midrange

[spare spindle]

Clear engagement range and downsides while being competent in its niche without overstepping

Thank GOD there’s no weapon that just completely overshadows it in almost every way possible

[foggy snow]

many people think that the Lewis overshadows it completely

mainly because it's better at range and has slightly lower TTK

but I've had many cases where being stuck in Lewis's reload was crippling

and since it doesn't beam as hard as it did in Season 1, I see no point in using it

when I can legit burn through 2 mesh shields, or wipe defib spamming triple Medium team, with the M60

[mellow lodge]

yeah, even though it's ttk is still quite mental

[spare spindle]

I do see the positives of the m60 mag but i think the Lewis is stronger in more situations, at least for the playstyle my team has. I personally just don’t think heavy should have a weapon with that much range that’s that consistent. It doesn’t make sense for a defensive tank class

[foggy snow]

my old playstyle with the Lewis was to score picks from mid-to-long-range, before enemy teams could get close to be cashout at all

it helped immensely when dealing with those stupid double heavy shotgun team comps

[fleet brook]

M60 reload feels like it takes forever

But that's all of heavies weapons

[spare spindle]

Dude I’ve seen a few people saying SA12 needs to be buffed again and I’m actually gonna lose it if that happens

[foggy snow]

M60 and Lewis have the same empty reload time

Only Lewis's non-empty reload is faster by ~300ms

[spare spindle]

Tbh I feel like most of the community opinions were based on the inaccurate AIO chart before you made yours

[mellow lodge]

imma bitch slap whoever says that

[spare spindle]

Like if you try telling people the lh1 might be a little overtuned they will think you’re insane

[foggy snow]

that AIO chart was cancer

I can't believe that got as much traction as it did.

[spare spindle]

Some of the ttk values were just very blatantly wrong

“Lh1 has a 1s ttk on heavy” like ok im not sure about that one

[foggy snow]

I feel like all of it was based on testing with target dummies, which isn't reliable because TTK on those things varies depending on network conditions

[fleet brook]

It feels....weird and clunky to me but not bad

[foggy snow]

my method was to do frame-by-frame analysis on weapon fire rates, using the ammo counter, which has clear client-side prediction at play

[spare spindle]

Yeah it was made before private matches. But they also didn’t do any math for it I think. They just recorded times. Which is weird when dummies were known to be bugged

Yeah that’s a much better method

[foggy snow]

I've had a few cases where the ammo counter "rewinded" by 1 ammo

which probably meant packet loss

[spare spindle]

I’d imagine that bullet probably wouldn’t register right

[foggy snow]

but it was clear that the client was predicting the state of the ammo counter accurately 99.9% of the time

and then "rewinding" if the ammo wasn't actually spent on the server-side

fortunately I only ever had to discard 1 piece of testing footage due to that, on the XP-54

[spare spindle]

That’s cool actually I wonder how often that affects trades in game

Zafferman what are your thoughts on the fcar

[foggy snow]

clearly overtuned

[spare spindle]

How do so many people disagree with that statement I don’t get it

[foggy snow]

but also necessarily powerful

[spare spindle]

Idk I feel like medium would still be great if fcar didn’t exist

[foggy snow]

it's the only Medium AR that kills faster than any Heavy LMG, and slower than any Light SMG

which stays true to the intuitive design philosophy of "tankier classes should deal less damage"

[mellow lodge]

appoh moment 😭

[foggy snow]

meanwhile, if you use the AKM, FAMAS, or Revolver

you put yourself at a massive disadvantage against a Heavy up close

[mellow lodge]

idk how they fuck that up so bad

[spare spindle]

Idk if that’s their design philosophy exactly though. Medium has much more range than heavy

[mellow lodge]

not really

[foggy snow]

Lewis has both more damage output AND more damage at range than an AKM

[spare spindle]

Heavy DPS is great on paper but I think has a lot of ways to play around it

Yeah I think the Lewis gun is stupid

[mellow lodge]

i think heavy weapons entirely are stupid

[spare spindle]

Every cb2 weapon (xp-54, fcar, lewis) is just kind of terrible for the game. Xp-54 being the least of the offenders but still lame

[foggy snow]

since most cashouts are played at close range, indoors, TTK up close also matters a lot.

I don't think Medium can survive by being an "only midrange" class

and since FCAR is good at all ranges, that's what people will naturally gravitate towards

[spare spindle]

that’s true but I also feel like medium should be getting most of its “power” through support. It should still be able to get kills though if outplaying someone

[mellow lodge]

the xp is really fucking lame because it does not have irons anymore 😭

[spare spindle]

If medium is a competent fragger then light probably won’t ever been seen in meta unless it’s because of something stupidly overtuned like the lh1

[foggy snow]

Shout-out to the Model for being the best Heavy destroyer

[spare spindle]

Model is great

[foggy snow]

3 taps Heavies AND you can repeek from cover for each shot

[spare spindle]

And I don’t even think it’s like op. It has clear downsides

[foggy snow]

its slow TTK on my spreadsheet is deceptive because it's not a gun for continuous damage output. it's a beast in practice.

[spare spindle]

Yeah most people focus too much on ttk alone I think

[foggy snow]

for these kinds of guns, it's shots-to-kill that matter the most

[spare spindle]

Shoutout to model for being strong without being like stupid

[foggy snow]

I think the only improvement it could use is to shorten that "eject-and-catch-shell" animation significantly for its reload (around 2.5s long, before you start loading any shell).

and then it's in a healthy spot

[spare spindle]

Yeah it’s a little silly. I wouldn’t mind trading that buff for a very slight range nerf. The cluster of pellets that goes toward the middle of the model spread could be very slightly dispersed a bit more

[foggy snow]

doesn't even need a range nerf. range and damage are perfect as is.

[spare spindle]

Maybe idk I haven’t played too much with it. But when I did I felt like I was getting some stupid shots off with it

[foggy snow]

it's wabbit season bitch

[spare spindle]

Fair

If medium got some more support tools besides heal and defib I could see fcar being nerfed properly

More active support tools* it has more but they’re all passive

[foggy snow]

IMO AKM, FAMAS, and Revolver should get straight-up buffs, so that they clearly kill faster than any Heavy LMG

[spare spindle]

The issue then is that light is just gonna be terrible

[foggy snow]

This would mean

• AKM damage from 20 to 21
• FAMAS time between bursts shortened by 500ms
• Revolver bloom removed, or fire rate increase

[spare spindle]

Light would have an even harder time interacting with mediums. Especially since taser is being nerfed

[foggy snow]

that's an issue with Light's survivability overall

150 HP isn't enough (and IMO Heavy doesn't need 350 HP)

[spare spindle]

Idk I like how light and heavy have clear strength and weaknesses. It felt like mediums weakness was meant to be damage but then they added the fcar in cb2 and refused to elaborate

[foggy snow]

175/250/325 would be healthier (or lower health regen delay for Light while increasing it for Heavy)

[spare spindle]

Would medium still need damage buffs on top of that if heavy has lower hp

[foggy snow]

let's see. I've been spreadsheeting what 175/250/325 split would look like

Yeah he'd still need 'em lol

[spare spindle]

They did try heavy with 325HP in closed beta and I’m not gonna lie it felt pretty bad. But the special and gadget balance was a different then

People also played differently

[foggy snow]

didn't Heavy also have 21 damage M60 back then?

and did Lewis Gun exist?

[spare spindle]

Iirc heavy was set to 325 at the end of cb1 before AKM, lewis, or mp5. Im not sure what the m60 damage was because it didn’t have the kill report that showed damage dealt

And they just didn’t include a ton of stuff in patch notes for some reason

[steep matrix]

I haven’t seen anyone use this but goo gun plus flamethrower could actually be really good

[spare spindle]

You used to be able to pick up your 500 HP dome shield and walk around with it though

[steep matrix]

Do people do that

[bold plover]

CL40 best weapon

[sleek pond]

yes they do ofc its very popular

[keen island]

its such a mean strat you cant do that much once they have you in the goo

[livid cypress]

Curious if anyone suggests the lewis gun or m60

[sleek pond]

they are both the best guns on heavy but as for the recent patches m60 is kinda better and easier to control

[ornate furnace]

I've been thinking of ways to make more useless or, simplistic weapons do more/have gimmicks and one of my ideas was to kinda change how the riot shield functioned,

my idea was to remove the mesh shield from heavy and in turn give it to medium but as a mechanic weapon instead of heavies standard, and how you would make it work is kinda like brigitta's ult in overwatch, the more you hit stuff with your stick the more charge you give your shield, in turn making it bigger over time
also giving players a choice of, do I wanna waste big shield now, or when it matters
so ultimately, mixing the mesh shield and riot shield

heavies don't exactly need their mesh shield, while its good I personally think its useless compared to the barricade, and doesn't have the instant value of a dome shield, and after its nerf its pretty much just sitting there stagnant, so why not give that feature to medium but make them work for its full value,

too many things in this game have instant value if you're not a light, so I think introducing more cool things that you have to work for mid game would not only be nice if they had a good payoff but also just overall more fun

[sleek pond]

i thought you wanted to move the dome shield because it was too strong or something but too weak? nah it is still widely used and removing would make every heavy very very mad

and the fact that dome shield cant replace barricade in alot of situations like trapping people and as a guy that uses sledge hammer 🙏 nope

[ornate furnace]

no I think dome shield does its job, it exists for a reason, mesh shield is just like, wall that gets shot down in 3 seconds, idk why you would use that over a barricade that gives you a free head glitch, its almost polarizing to choose mesh over barricade

goo gun does its thing (although buggy) and charge n' slam does its thing, mesh shield is just like..heavies third shield

its like they got confused on what else to give it

[sleek pond]

well if you are talking about mesh ye not alot of people use it now because of the nerfs and with a coordinated team it gets down very easily

[ornate furnace]

though, mesh shield BEING shot at IS its purpose, I still think it already has alot of things that do that exact purpose

[plucky lance]

You should use the shotgun that shots fast with it

[ornate furnace]

thats exactly why I think intigrating it with riot shield and a charge mechanic would be so much cooler

imagine how cool this game would be if certain weapons had gimmicks like the dagger and its backstab

The double barrel could probably have a movement option that fires both shells at once, it would be good for damage but it could give you a huge boost of momentum if used properly

one of heavies shotguns actually have a destruction gimmick and I think thats super cool, but it almost feels useless too with how long it takes

they ought to consider these things a bit more in depth

[sleek pond]

ye gimmick weapons are very cool but its probably very hard to balance with normal weapons

[ornate furnace]

I mean they already suck with the balancing....

one of the classes is just there to throw things unless you're sweating 24/7 while everything else has instant value you basically dont have to work for

[arctic fog]

Too many gimmicks can be confusing, frustrating and extremely hard to balance

[ornate furnace]

give me an example?

[arctic fog]

Ah NVM I got no gimmicks my imagination is dry

[ornate furnace]

2 of the games gimmick weapons already suck, either due to bugs or just being underwhelming

[sleek pond]

i guess if they wanted to buff riot shield they could already just improve on its gimmick like changing how fire is its kryptonite and how you can easily just shoot the legs

[ornate furnace]

and simple oversights like, why can you not ADS when stunned as a medium but you can block with the riot shield while stunned

[arctic fog]

Honestly the riot shield is bad in my opinion because of the class it belongs to. Lights have stealth and speed, which is why they have 2 melee weapons. And the heavy is tanku and defensive enough to take some fire as it charges in with the sledgehammer. But medium doesn't specialize in any of those. It's speed is pretty meh and it still can't take that much damage although it has the shield. I think if it was either a heavy or light weapon it'd have much more potential, even though that's never going to happen.

[ornate furnace]

lights having riot shield makes sense but also doesn't and thinking how every other class has a defensive/offensive melee option its better off to let the medium (support) have something to defend itself if its heavy is non existent

light defends itself by not being there and playing in a different angle or way, tbh light being anywhere in or out of a fight is REALLY bad considering how a fight can end in like 3 seconds if people play things right

if your light is busy trying to flank you're down a teamate which could be bad, if your lights there its an easy pick

[sullen tree]

lewis is the best heavy gun

[sullen tree]

I think they should just add back in a lot of the cool tech they nerfed off of light. (and maybe give light 50 more HP)

[ornate furnace]

I think this game would benifit from just an overall HP rework

[torn mantle]

I think even 30 more hp would be enough, just then we would be able to not get one shot by rpg

[sweet thistle]

I think a faster health regen for light would be more fitting for the style

[verbal pagoda]

APS is too op that they need some cool time

[idle cairn]

Bro they did the M1216 dirty with the nerf. I can barley kill anyone with it, the range compared to other shotguns is wild

1 meter spread at 25 yards

And it went from like 7 damage per pellet to 4

[sleek pond]

please rethink that 50 hp is broken light is not in a bad state stop complaining its just a class for rat sweaty players that requires alot of thinking and game sense if you dont like that just dont play the class

[fleet brook]

That pushes they're hp over several thresholds though

Weapons would have take a hit accordingly

[mellow lodge]

light is in a bad state in ranked, but i do agree giving them 50 more health is bad

you cannot say light is in a good state when both medium and heavy are like a hundred times more useful to a team

[azure idol]

Yes! Imagine being a light in this world. The training they would be going thru, would it not make sense that a light trains more in recovery (Getting back on two feet, Fight/Flight) medium regen should probably stay where it's at if not deceased in delay, and the heavies perhaps a second or two more of a delay for the regen. Or lights could have a sped up healing rate. The regen delay is the same but when it starts their health regen is faster.

Also I believe the thermal vision for the light class needs reworked. The activation and deactivation of the gadget has no flow. What’s up with the distance of the thermal too. If you’re out of range you can’t see contestant’s body heat (Buff please). Also it’s too difficult to know who’s an enemy or friendly when thermals on and everybody’s packed tighter than a grade schoolers lunch box.

[sweet thistle]

Yeah thermal is supposed to give a better vision but I often feel it makes it worse lol

Grapple needs a buff as well. 2-time use or faster cooldown

[foggy snow]

faster, less delayed health regen on Light makes more sense now, and is far less work

redoing HP splits = redoing all of the game's weapon balance

[trail hound]

true

[kind bane]

Data Reshaper needs to be able to reshape dome shields from the outside. Would make the Reshaper super useful and also help nerf dome.

[sage stirrup]

reshaper has mad cooldown, would you actually use it instead of just dumping half a mag into the shield? would be cool to see though.

[soft shale]

This would be a very harsh counter to dome shields, but at the same time, I don't think that benefit would make the data reshaper be picked more often, because it would still be very situational.

What would be funny however, would be that the data reshaper changes the dome into an anti-gravity grenade.

[foggy snow]

2 charges on data reshaper pls

just having 1 is so inconsequential

while people easily recover their reshaped deployables when they're off cooldown

[arctic fog]

Damn it I thought the update was today ;<

[patent gate]

red day (holiday) in sweden today 😦

[trail hound]

woo!

[arctic fog]

Ohh

[brisk silo]

Really hope we get some new weapons tomorrow

[arctic fog]

Prob not it's just a big patch

Prob not gonna add anything

[brisk silo]

They're giving us a new game mode so it's possible though.... right?

[arctic fog]

No

[brisk silo]

Really know how to kill a man's mood yanooo

[sullen tree]

RPG takes over half my health for the crime of having a heavy look at me.

A single charge and slam leaves me 20 HP, same with explosive mines.

And the return on the class is mediocre for the skill you have to put in. Mediums and heavies have comparable TTKs

This is the concensus, even among skilled light mains. Just look at light chat, you've got a lot of diamond ranked players there.

You are just wrong. There is a difference between something needing skill to be effective and something needing skill to be useable.

[pearl grove]

y

[slender halo]

What weapons can I use to do this mission? "Inflict 12500 damage with marksman weapons or short weapons"

[winter phoenix]

Medium shotgun needs a range nerf, all the other ones have minimal range except the heavy slug

[sullen tree]

probably the DB, or SMG, or XP5

maybe revolver as well.

[sullen tree]

heavy slug needs a major buff, and medium shotgun is balanced by the piss-poor firerate.

The tight spread that makes it accurate at longer ranges means you have to actually aim, even with a shotgun.

For the slug, I recommend just letting it break walls in two shots, and a slight increase in firerate.

[arctic fog]

🤷‍♂️

[fleet brook]

A charge has to hit you with all it's ticks to leave you with 30 isn't it

Also weapon balance would go to shit

Lights already have the fastest ttk on most of there guns (killing mediums)

[sullen tree]

no, it has to hit me with one. And it takes me to 20.

if it hits me with all the ticks, I die

[fleet brook]

This is like flank class in a shooter getting mad tanks counter them

[sullen tree]

the funny thing is they don't, especially not comparatively.

Fcar DPS on a light with all bodyshots is faster than optimal DPS a light can get on a medium

[fleet brook]

Lights excel at killing other lights and mediums

[fleet brook]

Theres a damage chart give me a second to find it

[sullen tree]

do mediums also excel at killing heavies?

oh right, I forgot, heavies should be raid bosses

my mistake. That's a healthy ideal for the game

[fleet brook]

@sullen tree

Look at medium ttk

Yeah there's no talking to you my bad I forgot

Light should be able to destroy everything and kill you in less than a second

[sullen tree]

you're genuinely a moron

[fleet brook]

Sheesh that's crazy Anyways

[sullen tree]

didn't even know that heavy charge did 130 damage per tick and you PLAY the damn class

have you played light recently?

I've played a lot of heavy, a lot of medium, a lot of light

[fleet brook]

Yes

[sullen tree]

light unilaterally is just worse, the battery of nerfs will make it even worse

[fleet brook]

Also no lifing a game more than me isn't a flex

And I just finished a run?

[sullen tree]

you can play 1 game and know how much damage charge and slam does. You don't even have to play heavy, you can just get hit by it and read the damage report

it does 130 damage per tick on the ground. 130 damage from the AOE slam on ground level, and maxes at 200 damage if you jump from roof level

[fleet brook]

I'm sorry do you usually run inside your home ?

Also I don't usually get hit by heavy slam

Grapple away

Dash away

Any movement away

[sullen tree]

mines do 130 damage, and have 50 HP, RPG does 140 damage and moves down to 80 damage minimum within their effective range

[fleet brook]

Also how are you getting hit by charges?

[sullen tree]

I'm a melee light and there's no actual telegraphing if they panic push at point blank range

[fleet brook]

How are you such an expert at the game and you get hit by heavy charge as a light

[sullen tree]

you get a single frame and then their entire body becomes a hitbox

[fleet brook]

Dash

Gateway (if you're weird)

Stun gun

I play light SH1-900 and I don't get hit by charge

SH1-900 and XP-54 if shotgun isn't working

[sullen tree]

stun's getting nerfed next patch. (or reworked to protect heavy tears)

gateway is shit for getting away at point blank range.

Dash is mandatory for sword and still will not protect you at point blank because of the lack of telegraph

[sullen tree]

that's the DB, right?

My condolences for that, lol

but you still have a much better range for a possible dodge VS the sword

the mines also have 50 HP, meaning if you run sword there is no way to blow them up other than tanking 130 damage

[fleet brook]

Also you could just nerf the damage of heavy utility

Because I do advocate for that less damage better arena destruction

[sullen tree]

the issue with that is that heavy utility is balanced against medium, I find. It's powerful, but not crippling

[sullen tree]

that could work though

I honestly think mines should have 1 HP

because then you could blow them up with tracking dart. Which would give melee lights SOME recourse

[sullen tree]

like a medium can turn it around and kill an RPG heavy who hit them with enough skill

a light has practically no ability to do so, outside of stun, which prevents a heavy from using their gadgets for only a little bit

which it may not even do after this next patch

[formal monolith]

I Hate see 3 M always win rank. :(

[fleet brook]

Also it's weird you call me stupid and a moron when I frequently talk about lowering heavy damage so if. That's stupid then idk

[sullen tree]

nah, I was just assuming you were one of the really bad heavy mains. Seen WAY too many shittakes about heavy damage and stuff from heavy mains.

"RPG should 1-shot lights because it's realistic", Simultaneously arguing that light shouldn't be able to take fair 1v1s while arguing that light deserves to have all the tools they use to tip the scales taken away because they're not fun to play against, etc.

"Nerf the sword and dash because it gives the mobility class good mobility to outplay me" is a good example from the last few days

"heavy should be a raid boss" was an actual popular argument on launch. I wasn't exaggerating when I said it, lol.

sorry about that.

[formal monolith]

This game should remove head box

[compact linden]

Im actually losing my mind. Charge n slam damage is so fucking stupid. This specialization should be meant for pushing enemies away and destroying the enviroment and not a fucking free rpg with no reaction time and no self damage

Lower the initial hit to 50 damage. 130 does not make any fucking sense

[soft juniper]

Just dodge it

[solar sleet]

can we like get a rocket launcher primary weapon in the incoming seasons ? i think an m202 flash is a good use for it

[compact linden]

good fucking luck dodging someone that charges one meter in front of you when you dont play light dash

[solar sleet]

you can just slide it or juke them to play guessing games with walls. jumpad and zipline are also easy counters to it

[compact linden]

IM playing heavy

im fucking dead when the enemy decides to press Q. and guess what - Top1000 D2, I know my shit

[tame marsh]

Just move to the side

[arctic fog]

It depends on the environment you're in but most of the time they rush a meter or so away from you so it can be hard to dodge

[vast kite]

I don't even play ranked and I can dodge it or outplay the opponent. It really depends on your positioning. If you understand the enemy has charge & slam, don't mindlessly engage them in close quarters. It gets ridiculous during close quarters battles around the cashout, sure, but if you're so angry about it, you could probably run C&S yourself and dodge to the side or counterattack. You could dodge to the side normally if they charge you at a distance. Unless you're pressed up RIGHT against them, you're pretty much fine.

Solution? Don't try to give them a fat hug. Shoot them from a distance, and when they charge, move out of the way. If they try to get close to you, keep shooting and they'll die before they get to you.

[sullen tree]

even when you have light dash, there's no actual telegraphing when they're point blank

[arctic fog]

I think charge and slam is fine tho. Hot ox is kinda janky but whatever

[vast kite]

There are a lot more pressing matters for the meta, like APS turret, which is currently VERY powerful, especially on power shift. C&S is balanced as is right now.

[vast kite]

And also this. I usually play with dash (cuz it's fun lol) and I often get DELETED instantly by heavies in a fight where I would've come out on top. Yeah, it's frustrating. Yeah, it happens a lot. Can I do anything about it? Yeah, move back.

Simple to me.

[compact linden]

THANK YOU. At least someone understands it

[compact linden]

aps is perfect as it is. it is the only real counter agains the heavies explosive power

[arctic fog]

I think that they should just make it a limit of 2 aps on the platform in power shift rather than a complete nerf

[vast kite]

It invalidates 2 main weapons, those being the nade launchers for Heavy and Medium. I liked the idea of a limited amount of projectiles blocked but idk.

[compact linden]

Just shoot next to it with cl40. the explosion has more range - needs 3 hits to destroy an aps

[vast kite]

Gets really difficult to do that when I'm being shot at. Sometimes from inside the APS turret's range, making 1v1's real annoying.

[compact linden]

yeah there is your problem. you dont play ranked.

casual is a whole different story than diamond ranked

[vast kite]

You said your top 1000 D2 or something, right? Shouldn't you position further away from charge and slam heavies, knowing they have the ability?

[compact linden]

thats all theory

[vast kite]

So in practice?

[compact linden]

You have to push a team with 2 bubbles and 8 barricades, you have to push a cashout, you have to actually engage in a fight

cashouts will be indoors, you cant just remove a whole building in 20 seconds

of course you wont get hit by charge n slam when staying away from the enemy. that wont win you the game tho

[sullen tree]

unfortunately if you're running melee light, like with every other thing, there is actually no good counter. lol

[vast kite]

So you're asking for the meta to only really accomadate mesh shield and goo gun for Heavy, since Charge and Slam would be pretty situational after your proposed nerf.

I get that ranked is different. But 50 damage is crazy.

[sullen tree]

honestly, just make the windup time a bit more

have them stomp their feet

[compact linden]

charges purpose is to push people away from a cashout or to quickly destroy a wall

[vast kite]

^

[compact linden]

charges main use case should not be damage. for that heavy has literally any weapon, rpg, c4, explosive mines, frag grenades you name it

[vast kite]

Remove c4 from that list brotha 🤣

[compact linden]

150 damage and you still can place 2 of them

throw a c4 down on the floor while running up stairs, easy damage.

[arctic fog]

1 placement

[compact linden]

nope, still 2

[vast kite]

they changed it back?

[arctic fog]

Mmm I don't think so

[compact linden]

works like light breach charge. you get the 2nd after 30 seconds

[arctic fog]

Ohhhhhh

[compact linden]

you just dont have the 2 instantly

[arctic fog]

I actually didn't know that that's useful

[vast kite]

Still isn't nearly as viable as anything else on the list, but pretty neat.

I haven't met a single heavy using C4 in any of my games in a real long time, but that might just be casual.

[compact linden]

yeah can be debatable but besides the point. heavy doesnt need 130 fucking charge n slam damage ready at any time in a fight

additionally too often the charge doesnt properly push you away, dealing up to 280 damage in 0.5 seconds

[vast kite]

I say we keep the heavy charge and give RPG to light and buff the damage to 1.5 million and make the splash damage cover the whole map, and also remove damage to self. Very balanced, trust me embark.

[compact linden]

nukes got removed because they were basically 300+ damage with the click of one button

now charge + rpg is 300+ damage with the click of 2 buttons. pretty much the same and no skill involved

[vast kite]

Nuke was way funnier.

[compact linden]

the rpg itself is in a good enough state, but in combination with charge n slam we literally have the nuke situation again. it takes the flow out of the game, not fun to play against, no proper way to counter. nothing

[vast kite]

This would fix the problem in ranked but make it barely picked at the same time. It becomes situational, and it provides less use than a mesh shield (protects your teammates, yourself, aids in stealing cashouts if you protect the stealer, uses pretty obvious lol) and the goo gun (locks opponents in place if goo'd, blocks doorways and vents, good way to protect cashout, can be used with anti grav cube to put cashouts in ridiculous spots, etc.).

As a light main I honestly wouldn't care, and would probably appreciate such a nerf. But I do feel like it should be hit with more of a lighter nerf. I don't want Charge to become the next Cloak.

It's really fun to play if you use it right, and part of that is owed to the damage, at least for me.

[compact linden]

the recent mesh shield nerf to 750 hp made it very managable. you can kill a heavy and the whole shield with one lewis mag. you can destroy a shield with one akm mag and I think even with the fcar now. if 2 players shoot one mesh shield, it's gone in 2 seconds

thats the reason why we got more charge n slam players in the first place

[vast kite]

they nerfed it?

[compact linden]

yep, 2 weeks ago iirc

[vast kite]

oh my god how did i not know this 😭

i was wondering why there were so many charge and slam users

[compact linden]

before it had 1000. now the tradeoff of not having a mesh shield is not nearly as bad. especially since nukes are no more, most heavies play barricade anyways

and fun fact: place barricade, wait till enemy is close and then just charge through it. not counterable

[sullen tree]

goo gun should be the meta TBH

[compact linden]

yeah, I see like 2 goo guns per week

I think some heavies would actually switch to goo gun instead of back to mesh shield if charge gets nerfed, making the specialization pickrate more balanced overall

shit like this happens at least twice per round: Sure I couldve hit more shots. but it was 50hp vs 190 hp

[fleet brook]

I'd use goo if you could shoot it as a stream

[sullen tree]

That would be so busted but so funny

[warped shadow]

Fcar recoil should be buffed, the dmg and falloff was what shouldve been nerfed. How it is now just creates a barrier for newer players trying to use the fcar. Pros can still beem people easily.

[lime forge]

This may be a bit of a stretch but I think a tripwire that does like 180 damage could be an insane addition to the game. It would definitely be viable in the upcoming gamemode for defenders.

[opaque shuttle]

thats not how charge works charge makes 1 time 130 or 140 idk anymore and other normal hits after that are 50

[restive plover]

The recoil is still very easy, and the falloff was nerfed.

[warped shadow]

Recoil is literally a hook

[restive plover]

Still the easiest of any automatic weapon except maybe the xp.

[grand ledge]

the barricade superposition glitch

[real nebula]

Medium compound bow idea for The Finals. Keep in mind I don't have all of the main details it's just a fun idea I had a minute ago that I would like yo share.

Naturally, the weapon will be your average bow with a projectile speed and a noticeable bullet drop at farther ranges.
The compound bow comes with 4 ammunition types with the main one being the standard arrow. The standard arrow has unlimited uses and can bypass APS with ease unlike the others but has no special properties. The other arrows will be Gas, Fire, and Explosive that cannot be spammed as they have a cooldown per use.

The Pyro arrow leaves fire in wherever it hits and can stick onto other surfaces and opponents. Sticking an opponent with the arrow is deadly

Explosive arrow explodes on contact with a radius of about 2m with damage scaling based on how close you are to the blast. It has decent destruction being able to create small holes in walls and floors. The arrow has a limited range of 20m before detonating.

Finally the gas arrow is a trap arrow. Shooting the arrow on a random doesn't do anything until an enemy is near it where it will explode into a small cloud of gas. Directly hitting someone with the gas will detonate instantly, but gas does not follow the opponent. It's mainly used for setups and to place on choke points.

You'll have three colors on your bow and on your UI visually indicating to you what's available and what isn't. By pushing the reload button while the bow is equipped you will switch between the special arrows in a specific order, but by holding the reload button will switch you to your standard arrow. Each arrow besides standard will have its own cooldown time.

Tell what you guys think about this idea 😄

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/artistry-at-its-finest-art-snoop-dogg-ggn-gif-11831081

[grand ledge]

it has some special properties too. ill just record a follow up. its sent me flying, glitched me through walls, ect.

[sterile forge]

What do you guys consider to be the best Loudoun for light right now

[brisk orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-go-lets-go-gif-4889109226193957320

[zealous timber]

(This is a gadget) A device where you drop it somewhere, and the next time you self revive, you respawn there, but if you get team wiped, your whole team spawns there

[torn mantle]

I really think the 'nade launcher shouldnt easily two-shot all lights

[mystic nimbus]

Class?

[restive plover]

The cloak light camping right next to said device:

[zealous timber]

Idk but just thought of it randomly, so it was just a idea from cod

[mellow lodge]

the 2 heavies with rpg ready to abuse you

[wind folio]

whole ahh minefield on it:

https://tenor.com/view/lysol-spray-spraying-disinfectant-keep-it-clean-gif-16558939 this as taser skin would be funny

[sullen tree]

It's kinda in that same "fuck lights in particular" class of guns.

I think nerfing the damage, buffing the firerate, and doubling the mag capacity would make it function much better.

(I say this as someone who hates it as well, lol.)

[torn mantle]

I feel like those changes would also make it more fun to play with (I've only used it a couple times but the firerate was very annoying)

[sullen tree]

ye

[compact linden]

I know, but as I said sometimes it does NOT work properly.. it deals the damage on hits and not with fixed time intervals. So if you somehow get stuck while the heavy charges into you, it ends up triggering multiple hits at once

[sullen tree]

I've used it a few times as well.

even hit this clip.

I love using it like a mortar, and I think there's a lot of skill potential there, but it's stuck in this state where it feels super oppressive against lights, but mediocre against mediums and actually useless against heavies.

[ivory flax]

no ks-23 buff? really?

[wise briar]

ks-23 buff for what?

[ivory flax]

Its bad high risk no reward with wall breaking gimmick. Its so rare to see it in ranked it might not even exist.

[mellow lodge]

@foggy snow GAD DAMN YOU WERE QUICK

[foggy snow]

I couldn't sleep, and there was only 1 gun change.

[mellow lodge]

thoughts on stun being almost useless now?

[foggy snow]

at least it's still good as a stalling tool, but I mean

[mellow lodge]

not really a stalling tool when a heavy can still rpg and medium can still defib

[foggy snow]

I think re-enabling ability and gadget usage was too harsh

because the other clever usage of Stun was the disable a Medium's ability to defib, or a Heavy's ability to use a panic button like charge, shield, RPG, etc.

So... If I get stunned as a Heavy, then I can just pull up a shield and be fine?

[mellow lodge]

yes, and you can rpg them

[foggy snow]

So it's entirely useless for combat now

especially now that the stunned player can ADS

Mediums and Heavies will just exploit the fact that Light is a twig, and delete them anyway

[mellow lodge]

yeah

[brisk silo]

Nice to see there wasn't a single buff to any of the shit weapons.
Also nice to see that the meta is going to remain the same just with less light players around.
Brilliant

[swift cradle]

How y'all liking the sorta kinda half stun gun change?

[mellow lodge]

well it's only use is stopping point now

isn't really a stun gun anymore

[swift cradle]

Yea, im glad it still keeps it's utility.

Otherwise it's basically a tickle gun. It's pretty funny.

[mellow lodge]

it does less than a tickle gun for anything other than stopping point

[vocal urchin]

In what way did barricades size increase?

[warm lava]

#Buff-the-fcar

[mellow lodge]

i think they just nerfed it in the wrong way

[hybrid falcon]

They deviated from the stun gun

[rough carbon]

good

Never used it as a light

[hot anchor]

I like how the barricade become such big

[delicate pine]

Got any one the New ttk from the fcar?

[gusty relic]

So your a casual… got it😑

[vital forge]

So barricades are fucked now...cool. They've run out of things to nerf on heavy huh?

[native isle]

barricades is now taller than heavy, which is a bit of a nerf🙃

[gloomy nacelle]

So is light basically a complete toss now??

[final lotus]

The balance changes with light and heavy have been incredibly out of touch

[native isle]

I just want to say, stop using the stun gun

[gloomy nacelle]

Ok so useless got it

Welp, time to swap to heal beam defib medium with a scar like how the finals devs wanted me too!!

[native isle]

😫

[rough carbon]

You can still use it for stopping caps, I just never needed anyone to stand still while I effortlessly shoot them.

If anything it's more likely going to be used for it since they raised the range

[gloomy nacelle]

???? Yeah bro it totally wasn’t used to prevent mediums from defibbing or heavy’s with rpgs out

[rough carbon]

I think the rpg should be a one hit kill to lights and I say that as someone who plays more light

[desert apex]

Yeah no buff and yet more nerfs to Fcar. Are you trying to make all the guns useless

[hot anchor]

i discard my word
it is trash

[cinder notch]

I really wish I would see more buffs in the patch notes. The constant nerfs are exhausting. Fcar probably justified tho

[restive plover]

Some art work inspirations also here
#server-announcements message

[ebon ingot]

FCAR is now in line with the other guns in the game. It really sounds like yall have never used anything else and expect every gun to be FCAR level. That pos was always a tier above every other gun in the game.

[gusty relic]

Stun gun was made to ensure that you don’t get out gunned in every single fight and nerfing that makes light even harder to play

[ebon ingot]

Light has more play styles than invis stun gun ratting, try sniping or lh1 with zip. Or sword dash. Or machine gun dash.

Use gateway with zip and you can move your entire team. I main light and haven’t crutched on m11, xp, invis, or stun gun for the past two season and I’m diamond 3 rn

[rough carbon]

Gotta rely on mobility and hit and run tactics more

Lights aren't for facetanking

They're literal scouts and spies

[gusty relic]

Who said I rat? I use clock because it allows me to not rely on movement and makes it easier to flank

[ebon ingot]

is flanking not ratting…

[gusty relic]

Flanking is lights whole purpose

U sure u really play light?