endgame-lounge

[unreal flax]

Cleared the robot :D

[dull radish]

congrats <3

[scenic patrol]

Grats

[stable basin]

something just occurred to me about uwu

ultima will be the first enemy in the game for which, presumably, you will be able to tell which of three difficulties someone is fighting it on

(there are already only afaik three fights in the game where you can tell the difficulty through someone's location)

[heavy mist]

?

ARR primals?

[pure yoke]

Hi

[vivid heart]

In full 360 gear, a 370 savage raider will do more than 20% damage?

[sage totem]

Savage BIS vs Casual BIS is a pretty huge gap yes

[pure yoke]

I wouldn't know

[vivid heart]

For example, a fully kitted mythic raider in WoW does maybe 20% more damage than a heroic raider

[pure yoke]

There is already a big gap

Between an average 370

And a good player in 370

[sage totem]

Given the same person playing both 360 and 370 20% may be a bit high

[paper torrent]

does carry meta really matter in anything but savage tho?

[sage totem]

But then again maybe not

[vivid heart]

I typically parse 95+, and have several 99s, im not concerned about my skill level (I know that sounds super cocky, sorry)

[sage totem]

Meta doesn't even matter in savage

[paper torrent]

'cause it's not like there's not much to do

where your damage super matters

[pure yoke]

Also raid buffs are typically far more pronounced in 14

[sage totem]

Meta matters if you speed kill and parse run

[paper torrent]

ex byakko is fucking super easy

[pure yoke]

But I guess you already knew that

[paper torrent]

it's not like any 24 mans or carry shit is hard either

[vivid heart]

My big problem, as i said in that lengthy post

[sage totem]

If you want to be casual but still compete with raiders, you will get stomped by people of equal skill

[paper torrent]

but why would you want to compete with other raids if you don't do savage?

[pure yoke]

A very rough estimate

[paper torrent]

raiders*

[pure yoke]

I would say a 10% gap

[vivid heart]

Right, but a skilled player typically stomps other average players in 360 gear

[pure yoke]

Between 360 and 370

[sage totem]

Well I mean

[vivid heart]

Like i said earlier, i was doing dungeons as war tank earlier today, and i was 2nd dps

People still suck

[pure yoke]

And weapon ilvl is disporationately more valuable

[sage totem]

FFXIV you're dealing with the bottom 99% in almost everything you do

[pure yoke]

Than say armor ilvl

[vivid heart]

I guess the best way to put it

[sage totem]

Comparing yourself to dungeon runners is no more useful than queuing a heroic dungeon in WoW and stomping them

[vivid heart]

Is that in WoW i already put forth a fuck ton of effort to be the best

[sage totem]

It's significantly less effort to be the best in FFXIV

[vivid heart]

And im not sure i want to put nearly that much effort in FFXIV, that being said i still want to be up there

[sage totem]

You can be the best by raid logging every week

1 hour a week

And you can be BIS and stomp all the plebs

[pure yoke]

Damn I wish I knew that

[zinc vortex]

FF was designed for you to be able to keep up

playing about 4-5 hours a week

[pure yoke]

I grinded the shit out of savage for no reason

[sage totem]

For reference

[zinc vortex]

so don't worry about that

[sage totem]

I raid log and these are my logs:

!whologs @sage totem

[storm frost]

Eanae Hikari of Gilgamesh

FFLogs Data (Damage)

**Phantom Train (Savage)**

Paladin: (720/14401) [4154.49 DPS] [96.0 Historical] [6:20]

**Demon Chadarnook (Savage)**

Paladin: (338/14138) [4843.41 DPS] [97.5 Historical] [7:25]

**Guardian (Savage)**

Paladin: (473/9971) [4270.51 DPS] [95.6 Historical] [9:21]

**Kefka (Savage)**

Paladin: (629/7874) [4058.74 DPS] [93.0 Historical] [5:59]

**God Kefka (Savage)**

Paladin: (446/5763) [4524.93 DPS] [93.2 Historical] [9:38]

Best historical percentile, dps, and time are displayed individually from each other and are not necessarily from the same parse.

[vivid heart]

Lol, when we were first doing mythic prog, we were doing 4-5 hours per raid night

[pure yoke]

!whologs @pure yoke

[storm frost]

Espresso Mug of Balmung

FFLogs Data (Damage)

**Phantom Train (Savage)**

Dragoon: (4/10332) [7924.69 DPS] [99.8 Historical] [5:38]
Samurai: (703/7036) [5654.77 DPS] [90.2 Historical] [7:58]

**Demon Chadarnook (Savage)**

Dragoon: (14/10064) [7022.5 DPS] [99.8 Historical] [6:32]

**Guardian (Savage)**

Dragoon: (29/7253) [6130.32 DPS] [99.6 Historical] [8:25]

**Kefka (Savage)**

Dragoon: (13/5824) [5968.39 DPS] [100 Historical] [5:42]

**God Kefka (Savage)**

Dragoon: (45/4350) [6426.82 DPS] [99.3 Historical] [8:34]

Best historical percentile, dps, and time are displayed individually from each other and are not necessarily from the same parse.

[pure yoke]

I pull in 3 extra days a week

After weeklies

[vivid heart]

Another thing i was starting to worry about, and this comes from my WoW mythic min-maxing mentality

Is that i was reading posts about the meta in FFXIV

[sage totem]

Min maxing is a joke in XIV

[zinc vortex]

those people have no idea what they're talking about

[vivid heart]

And that its basically "play this or get fucked"

[sage totem]

There's 2 sets of gear

BIS is solved

Well

[vivid heart]

I meant class wise

[paper torrent]

I mean if you're worried about min maxing

[sage totem]

It depends

[lucid karma]

min maxing in FF14 is more about raid composition and rotations

[paper torrent]

Why not just do savage

[sage totem]

Some classes are utterly worthless

[lucid karma]

rather than gears

[sage totem]

Other than that

[wet stag]

there are classes that arent meta

thats true

[sage totem]

It doesn't matter

[vivid heart]

Because i dont want to absolutely min max like i do in wow

[zinc vortex]

[vivid heart]

Where i only play classes that our raid team needs

[paper torrent]

And get the gear?

[sage totem]

What class in XIV do you like

[wet stag]

utterly worthless for speed? ye

but there is no detrimental job

[vivid heart]

I want to play what i want to play, but if the opportunity comes to do a savage, i'd like to be considered

[paper torrent]

Doing savage doesn't necessarily mean min maxing

[sage totem]

What do you want to play?

Keep in mind savage is a joke now

The real hard content is Ultimate

Which is 1 fight per 6 months

[vivid heart]

So did they adopt the wow difficulty?

[wet stag]

and i was so proud of my o8s clear

[sage totem]

Yes

[wet stag]

[vivid heart]

Normal>savage>ultimate?

[sage totem]

Yes

[zinc vortex]

the only people that will deny you based on the class you play are the people that either
a) do hardcore prog and want to minmax to get the quickest kill
b) do speedkills

for anything else

[vivid heart]

Do you play WoW, Eanae?

[zinc vortex]

play whatever you want and enjoy

[wet stag]

c) are RETARDS

[zinc vortex]

bring the player not the class

[sage totem]

I have historically yes

[zinc vortex]

and yes, c too

[lucid karma]

savage = between casual and midcore content

[sage totem]

Not recently no

[vivid heart]

So is savage now more akin to heroic difficulty?

[zinc vortex]

i'd say so yeah

[sage totem]

Yeah

[vivid heart]

I dont remember which wing it was

[sage totem]

And Ultimate is Mythic

[vivid heart]

But there was an alex wing that was fuck awful hard

Because of the overtuning

[zinc vortex]

gordias

[sage totem]

Gordias wasn't over tuned

[paper torrent]

Probably gordias

[sage totem]

It just showed how bad FFXIV players were

lol

[pure yoke]

Players sucked

[zinc vortex]

it wasn't overtuned in the literal sense

but we all know which wing he meant

cmon

[vivid heart]

All i got to do were pugs of gordias

[pure yoke]

I remember someone said like a creator tier speed run group wouldn't have too much issue

[sage totem]

Yeah that would never end well

[pure yoke]

With gordias dps check

[vivid heart]

Maybe im overthinking it

[sage totem]

You probably are

[vivid heart]

I remember savage actually being on mythic levels

[sage totem]

Not really

Savage was never on mythic level

[paper torrent]

Savage is fighting 7 people

[sage totem]

Maybe a4s and a8s

[paper torrent]

In PF

[lucid karma]

problem with raiding in FF14 is player making mistake tends to become snowballing effect

[sage totem]

And SSCoB

But outside those

[lucid karma]

because players can't stay focused

[sage totem]

Savage has always been kind of cruise control content for the top %

[lucid karma]

and adapt

[vivid heart]

Maybe my guild group that i did static with just treated it as such

[paper torrent]

We all forget the true meta

Static meta

[vivid heart]

They said it was the hardest shit in the world

[sage totem]

they lied

[vivid heart]

But i remember getting in a savage pug as a war tank

And everyone telling me how good i am

But i was like

"This isnt hard though"

The uh

Trap fight

[lucid karma]

yeah

[vivid heart]

I cant remember

with the goblin

[pure yoke]

A10

?

[vivid heart]

Like, the mechanics were simple, once you saw them

A10S

[lucid karma]

the difference between people doing savage raid and people who don't is quite large

but not large enough to ensure being midcore

[vivid heart]

More so than the mythic disaparity?

[sage totem]

If you raided mythic in WoW you can probably do everything in XIV easily except ultimate

Ultimate is going back to 100s of wipes

If not 1000s

[pure yoke]

The ultimate challenge is finding a group

Especially now

[vivid heart]

Yeah, it took 287 attemps on mythic aggramar (second to last boss in the most recent raid) to finally down him

And we're a serious group

[lucid karma]

yep finding a group is hardest part

[sage totem]

On average I think most ultimate clears are 500+ pulls

It's a brutal fight

[vivid heart]

That actually sounds amazing

[sage totem]

There's very little room for mistake

[vivid heart]

I love hard content that when you down it, its a badge of honor

[pure yoke]

It's a 18 minute fight with 0 checkpoint

[sage totem]

And any death in the final phase you lose

[lucid karma]

because due to nature of FF14 raids, you might get punished really hard for mistake

[zinc vortex]

there's another ultimate fight coming in net patch as well

next*

[pure yoke]

People say the final phase is easy but most people are mentally dried up

[sage totem]

Ultimate is only a badge of honor though keep in mind

[pure yoke]

By that point

[lucid karma]

so finding players who can perform decently and not fucking with whole group

is hardest part

[zinc vortex]

yeah ultimate is purely to show off

[vivid heart]

So back to my class questions

I've heard two things

Everything is viable

Not everything is viable

lol

[zinc vortex]

everything is viable,

[sage totem]

Can you clear with everything? Yes

[zinc vortex]

not everything is optimal

[vivid heart]

I've looked at logs

And everything seems viable

The damage difference between classe sisnt that huge

[zinc vortex]

and people tend to confuse the two

[sage totem]

Do certain comps make it easier? Yes

[pure yoke]

People over value speed run comp for general play

[sage totem]

Well

Keep in mind

you're looking at parses which doesn't show RDPS contribution

[vivid heart]

The only time i remember speed running comps mattering was farming anima shit in A4S

[paper torrent]

Drk cleared ucob lul

[sage totem]

For example Samurai provides no raid buffs

[lucid karma]

I cleared O5 with this

[paper torrent]

World first meme tank

[sage totem]

If you run a full comp of things with no synergy

[lucid karma]

everything is viable

[sage totem]

Your week one clears aren't gonna go too hot

[lucid karma]

but not everything is optimal

[pure yoke]

Everything is viable as long as you don't run some meme as comp

[vivid heart]

Well right, thats sounds about normal

[pure yoke]

Like quad melee

[vivid heart]

And WoW is pushing that even harder in the next expac

[sage totem]

For ultimate

I would probably not want to run non-meta

If you aren't a god at the class

[pure yoke]

Ucob dps check wasn't that right

[vivid heart]

Would you say mythic is on the same level of ultimate?

[pure yoke]

Tight

[vivid heart]

Or harder?

[sage totem]

Ultimate is probably final mythic boss level

[pure yoke]

From what I heard

[sage totem]

It has to be hard since it's only a single fight

[vivid heart]

Right, right

[pure yoke]

Ucob is more about banging your head against the wall that skill

[vivid heart]

I wish FFLOGs had an ilvl filter, like WarcraftLogs does

[pure yoke]

From hearsay

[lucid karma]

like I said, finding people with same skill level as you is hardest part, assuming you're competent or even good

[sage totem]

fflogs should have all the warcraft logs features since it's made by the same guy

[paper torrent]

it can't because fflogs doesn't have any information of ilevel to pull from

[sage totem]

Oh

Right

That's true

[pure yoke]

Ilvl is also more wonky in ffxiv

[paper torrent]

i fucking wish it did too but you konw

[sage totem]

Well

[paper torrent]

also API LUL

[pure yoke]

Because it values accessory ilvl the same as weapon ilvl

[sage totem]

Assume all the parses are BIS probably

[paper torrent]

a lot of the competitive tiers of logs are indeed from people who have BIS or are close to it

[vivid heart]

My WoW logs speak to my skill level.

I will say though

FFXIV classes are almost slightly more difficult to play

Well maybe not more difficult

But less forgiving

[pure yoke]

From what I heard

Wow rotation is galaxy brain compared to ff14

[sage totem]

Yeah top percentiles you can't mess up your rotation or your top % run is done

[pure yoke]

I messed up my rotation a couple times

[paper torrent]

tfw tiff liz literally has every fight mapped out with goddamn memes

for tornado kicks

[sage totem]

On PLD I can't mistime things

[lucid karma]

that's nature of PLD tho

[paper torrent]

pld you miss a window your dps goes to shit

[sage totem]

Because all the fights fit my casting vs melee rotation perfectly

[lucid karma]

PLD damage curve is as flat as miqote butt

[sage totem]

Yeah but that curve drops mighty quickly if I fuck up a dps buff

[vivid heart]

Healing parses are so much harder to get than dps meters

Ugh

[pure yoke]

I do some funky shit on my drg rotation

[sage totem]

I do too

[pure yoke]

Because my ping is low enough to get away with it

[sage totem]

I hold my FoF an extra GCD

vs what most PLDs do

Because fuck east coast latency

[vivid heart]

So i was doing some testing of my dps

Ninja is mostly what i dps on, right now

[sage totem]

I want to make sure my Goring Blade reapplies with FoF

😦

[vivid heart]

When i stopped i only had war and nin at 70

But im doing 4k dps right now on ninja

at 315

3800-4k

[sage totem]

Ninja will never not be staple in raid comp

[paper torrent]

so many support tools

[lucid karma]

either NIN or DRG

[sage totem]

Trick Attack and Shadewalker are too good

[paper torrent]

aggro tools, fucking TA,

[lucid karma]

having both is perfect

[paper torrent]

smokememes

what can that class not do

[vivid heart]

I used to main mnk, then i went to level ninja

And fell in love with it

[sage totem]

MNK has it's place

[vivid heart]

War has been my main since 2.0

[sage totem]

But it isn't meta right now

MNK is good in triple melee comp though

[pure yoke]

Does wow have the same "any monkey that pushes buttons can get a 99" attitude like ffxiv community does?

[lusty oak]

#DELETTA

[pure yoke]

Monk is good in prog

[paper torrent]

M A N T R A

[vivid heart]

Are you asking if its that easy to get 99s? Or if people think that

[pure yoke]

People thinking that

[vivid heart]

People who dont parse, or who know nothing of parse culture

Dont even know what a 99 is

[lucid karma]

people unironically think pushing orange means just you alone being good

[vivid heart]

They just look at their dps meters

[lucid karma]

without considering compositions

[vivid heart]

And think theyre good

When in reality

Sure they might be top dps for whatever theyre doing

But for their ilvl, theyre parsing gray

[pure yoke]

Tragic

[zinc vortex]

uwu

[vivid heart]

Then when i show them their parses (if they shit talk)

They just blame x and y and say that their meters say differently

[sage totem]

Keep in mind

[vivid heart]

Typical casual stuff

[sage totem]

Showing people their parses in XIV

[vivid heart]

Is bannable

[sage totem]

Is a good way to get a fast ban

lol

[vivid heart]

yeah

[pure yoke]

I imagine my fflogs mean absolutely nothing in wow

[vivid heart]

I was talking WoW

btw in wow

[zinc vortex]

carebear fantasy xiv

[vivid heart]

Comps dont matter for parses, not really

I know it does for FFXIV

[sage totem]

Well

[vivid heart]

But WoW it doesnt

[sage totem]

They used to

[vivid heart]

And they will again

in BfA

[zinc vortex]

CHAOS BRAND BOYS

[lusty oak]

did not Blizz became carebear too?

[sage totem]

But Blizzard decided to go the community welfare give everyone every buff route

[lusty oak]

toxic bans in OW

[pure yoke]

WoW comp is more if people exist for buffs right?

[lusty oak]

and HotS

[sage totem]

Back in my day you put the shaman in the rogue group to give them windfury

[pure yoke]

Rather than say having to do trick attack

[vivid heart]

Theyre bringing back class buffs and shit in BfA @sage totem

Like monks will basically be mandatory

[lusty oak]

...and then swap sham to healers for manatide

[vivid heart]

They put a 5% damage taken debuff on bosses

Stuff like that

[pure yoke]

Question is

[sage totem]

!wow malygos eanaè

[storm frost]

Eanaè of Malygos (Level 90 Paladin)

Race: Human of the Alliance
Guild: Dilution
ilvl: 545
Achievement Points: 9575
Honorable Kills: 6587
Mounts: 109

[vivid heart]

Used to be, Mug

well

Currently is that way

[sage totem]

lol

Whats the lvel cap now?

[pure yoke]

Does wow devs develop content with wowlogs as a consideration?

[sage totem]

110?

[vivid heart]

But in BfA theyre bringing back class buffs

Not just "oh look 10 more int"

[steady pebble]

yeah

[pure yoke]

Or do they give no fucks about wowlogs?

[steady pebble]

lvl cap is 110

[vivid heart]

But "Bring a demon hunter, and now the boss takes 10% more magic damage"

[lusty oak]

they dont give fucks about wowlogs

[vivid heart]

Eh

They do

[lusty oak]

WoW has pretty neat testing realms with logs etc

[vivid heart]

Blizzards classes are extremely balanced right now

More balanced than they've ever been

[lusty oak]

B. analyze those

[vivid heart]

Is savage puggable? Or does it still run into the issues of casuals, casuals everywhere

[sage totem]

ish

[pure yoke]

It's puggable

[sage totem]

This tier is mostly

[pure yoke]

With the right group

[paper torrent]

please get a static

NA pugs is hell.

[pure yoke]

There are still memelords late to the party

[lusty oak]

5-6 is puggable as hell

[pure yoke]

There are shit

[lusty oak]

7 harder

8 is harder yet

[paper torrent]

community overall even in savage is pretty shit

[vivid heart]

I dont know why WoW doesnt have quite the same issue

Like, we still have our trash pugs

But its not nearly as bad as FFXIV

[paper torrent]

because carry potential is less in this game inherently imo

[vivid heart]

Is that just because FFXIV is more catering to casuals?

[paper torrent]

but i have very limited wow experience

[pure yoke]

Because most people that are good got their clear months ago

And probably raid logs now

[sage totem]

XIV has no meter to allow people to see how trash they are

[lusty oak]

mean, can u really PUG heroic bosses in wow?

[vivid heart]

Yeah

Obviously you have trash

Just kick and replace

[pure yoke]

So now you end up with mostly trash

[vivid heart]

But i always check parses

[pure yoke]

That came to the tier late

[vivid heart]

Before i invite pugs

[lucid karma]

more trash players than competent ones tbh

[pure yoke]

And expects a free carry

[lucid karma]

this is true for every datacenter

[vivid heart]

Thats true for WoW as well

Its just that in wow

We have more tools to screen people

[pure yoke]

If you want to clear fast now, you have to know people

[lusty oak]

oh yea carries

i was asked to help few weeks back with o7s clear

[sage totem]

You'll have better pug luck on Aether probably

[lusty oak]

but ppl wanted me not to clear it that week with static

so they get 2 chests

[pure yoke]

I have not done pf for two tiers in a row

[zinc vortex]

yeah the savage loot system is terrible

[lusty oak]

and i was like 'u wot m8'

[pure yoke]

Creator pf was too much for me

[zinc vortex]

with 0-2 chests

[vivid heart]

Yeah, i would say a much smaller % of people do top tier content in FFXIV than people do in WoW

Im not sure why that is

I guess FFXIV offers more "friendly" content?

So it attracts that kind of crowd?

[lusty oak]

because there is no carrot on stick in xiv

[lucid karma]

FF14 is casual MMO

[lusty oak]

look at wow: u get mount 100% drop if u do raid before next tier

[sage totem]

So

As of 3 months ago

[vivid heart]

Thats only one mount

[sage totem]

Numbers by region:
JP : 1869
NA: 268
EU: 157
Total : 2294

[lusty oak]

in xiv u can wait expac and get it unsych

[sage totem]

For UCoB

[vivid heart]

And its achievement related

[pure yoke]

The moral of the story ie

[vivid heart]

Thats how many people have killed it?

[pure yoke]

Be Japanese

[sage totem]

As of 3 months ago

[lucid karma]

also EU is noticeably smaller than NA

[sage totem]

I can't find a more recent stat

[pure yoke]

From what I heard

There has been a huge surge of Japanese players uploading to fflogs

Since sigma scape

[lucid karma]

yes

this is quite true

[vivid heart]

I parse basically evertything i do in wow

From lfr to mythic

Not for me

[pure yoke]

Like the Japanese is almost the majority

[lusty oak]

well, your parse is in game

[pure yoke]

On fflogs

[vivid heart]

But for other players can have their parses uploaded

So that when people like myself, screen them for pugs

[lusty oak]

don't need to get separateapp running

[vivid heart]

Or to fill raid spots

We can see how they do

Parses dont lie

=3

[sage totem]

There's only 118 clears on fflogs

for UCoB

well

wait

[pure yoke]

My parses don't tell the story

[sage totem]

thats for statics

I guess

[pure yoke]

Of the wipes

[sage totem]

I guess there's no ways to count unique kills

[vivid heart]

parses vary so hard in WoW

[sage totem]

[paper torrent]

I saw a guy with ucob axe

[vivid heart]

10th percentile, top dps is doing 1.5m in wow, least is 1m (gotta be carries or people dying)

99th percentile, top is doing 2.6m, bottom is 2.1

[pure yoke]

I hate the feeling of being carried

[paper torrent]

I think he's like one of the only people i faerie with ucob geae

[vivid heart]

(Top and bottom being top class vs worst class)

[lusty oak]

i hate the feeling of being carry

fucking leeches

[pure yoke]

I don't pf so I don't know what it's like to carry

[lusty oak]

[paper torrent]

It feels like

[vivid heart]

So all of you guys just do static savage?

[paper torrent]

Parsing blue

[pure yoke]

Me yew

[lusty oak]

yes

doing savage with pugs is unbearable

[vivid heart]

Im sure the content is way past on farm at this point

[lusty oak]

yes

[pure yoke]

Yeah

I had it on farm since early feb

[paper torrent]

I'm still technically a pug hero

[pure yoke]

It's pretty much raid log status

[lusty oak]

tho im trash, im on 7th Gkefka kill iirc

[vivid heart]

How long is it going to take me to get started on my relic weapons?

[paper torrent]

Hopefully that'll change soon

Honestly

[vivid heart]

Are they doing it like previous relics (anima, cough)

[lusty oak]

nah

[vivid heart]

Where its going to take me MONTHS of grinding

[lusty oak]

relic is easy

[vivid heart]

To catch up

[paper torrent]

I would just wait till next tier

[pure yoke]

Relic is an entirely separate progression

[lusty oak]

Netflixka

[paper torrent]

To get into savage

[vivid heart]

Will there be a catch up?

[pure yoke]

Probably

[vivid heart]

Or will i be running this tier of savage

[paper torrent]

Eureka took me like... 30 hours?

[vivid heart]

To start next tier?

[lusty oak]

22th is catch up patch

[paper torrent]

25? I don't remeber

[pure yoke]

You probably save a lot more time

Just doing savage

[vivid heart]

Yeah im assuming eureka is just like that other place

Diadem

[lusty oak]

yea, savage is best gearing

[paper torrent]

Diadafuck

[lusty oak]

no, Eureka is better

[zinc vortex]

ive only recently cleared the raid tier

[lusty oak]

[zinc vortex]

but im casual af

[paper torrent]

Eureka is so good

Lazy mets

Meta

[vivid heart]

See my whole concern, which you guys have alleivated

Was that i raid 12 hours a week in wow (Well i did, we've halted progression because burn out)

[lusty oak]

God Kefka 6
yea, tmrw 7th kill

[vivid heart]

And i just didnt want to have to do 12 hours of raiding in ffxiv

every week

I thought savage = mythic

[paper torrent]

Nah this game is es

Ez

[pure yoke]

My life is easy

[zinc vortex]

it's a very comfy experience

[vivid heart]

Same fam

[zinc vortex]

playing this game

[paper torrent]

still hasn't cleared o7s

[lusty oak]

i raid 2 hours a week in xiv now

[paper torrent]

Hehehhehe

Shoot me

[lusty oak]

then do whatever i want

[zinc vortex]

same

[pure yoke]

I raid 12 hours a week

[paper torrent]

I just shitpost now

[pure yoke]

11 hours for optimisation

1 hour for weeklies

[vivid heart]

get ready to be jelly

I work 4 on, 4 off, 12 hours a day.

I get to play at work, for the entire 12 hours, with very minimal interuptions

I do Mythic progression at work

[pure yoke]

I play only the easiest games

[vivid heart]

Its almost a double edged blade though

Because i have to find games that have a ton of content in them

because i burn through games in a day or two

With all the game time i get at work

[lusty oak]

i don't like 'raids' in xiv tbf

4 rooms with boss

👏

[paper torrent]

Bring back coils

[lusty oak]

maybe im spoiled because of WoW

[paper torrent]

😤

[vivid heart]

Do you play WoW right now @lusty oak

[paper torrent]

For more fights

[lusty oak]

no

i quit during WoD

[vivid heart]

Ah, was gonna ask how you balance your playtime

[lusty oak]

they killed my WW monk

[vivid heart]

Windwalker monk is god tier op right now

[lusty oak]

i play xiv few hours a day unless i decide to craft or gather

then longer

[pure yoke]

I wish I can like wow

I tried

People told me it's 14 but better

[vivid heart]

Nah

[pure yoke]

But I couldn't get into it

[vivid heart]

Its apples and oranges

Both fruit, way different fruits

[lusty oak]

my interest in wow was killed after MoP quite fast

[vivid heart]

I like FFXIV for different reasons than I like wow

[pure yoke]

Didn't MoP introduce mythic?

[vivid heart]

Yeah

[paper torrent]

WoW rotations felt weird to me

Like they were floaty

[lusty oak]

in prepatch of WoD

[pure yoke]

MoP seem to have gotten a bad rap

When I looked at it

[vivid heart]

I enjoy FFXIV rotations a thousand times more than wow rotations

I love GCD weaving

[pure yoke]

What Job do you play?

I like dragoon precisely because it's a static no rng rotation

[lusty oak]

first 4 difficulties of raid
then whole shit with removing snapshotting
then killing rotations
then consecutive weekly nerfing of my class

[pure yoke]

I didn't like wow rng

[vivid heart]

I've played all quite a bit, I've mained WAR, DRK, SCH, AST, MCH, NIN, MNK, and THM

[pure yoke]

I'm a dragoon one trick pony

[lusty oak]

add to that garrisons, crafting being shit, garrison invasion being shit

[vivid heart]

With the hours i get to play

I play all the things

Otherwise i get bored

[pure yoke]

I have many hours but I just stick to one job

https://puu.sh/AdymC/b550aee146.png

[paper torrent]

Get 100% on god you nerd

[pure yoke]

Nty

[vivid heart]

See i feel like its much easier to get higher parses in FFXIV

[lucid karma]

get o7s clear you nerd

[pure yoke]

My group will never do 2nd forsake. Uptime

[vivid heart]

There seems to be less competition

[paper torrent]

@lucid karma soon TM

[pure yoke]

There is less competing

You are literally competing with a couple dozen people

If you are going for high parses

[vivid heart]

couple dozen people

Check this out

Thats just for my class, and my spec

AT MY ILVL BRACKET

[pure yoke]

Ffxiv

[pure yoke]

There is ummm

[vivid heart]

This is for all parses

37k

[pure yoke]

10k dragoons on o5s

And dragoon is one of the most played jobs

This tier

[lusty oak]

11,517 bards on o5s

[vivid heart]

So youre saying like

for 99 percentile

[lusty oak]

s of may 8th

[vivid heart]

Its a couple dozen of you guys?

[pure yoke]

Yes

!whologs @pure yoke

[storm frost]

Espresso Mug of Balmung

FFLogs Data (Damage)

**Phantom Train (Savage)**

Dragoon: (4/10334) [7924.69 DPS] [99.8 Historical] [5:38]
Samurai: (703/7037) [5654.77 DPS] [90.2 Historical] [7:58]

**Demon Chadarnook (Savage)**

Dragoon: (14/10064) [7022.5 DPS] [99.8 Historical] [6:32]

**Guardian (Savage)**

Dragoon: (29/7254) [6130.32 DPS] [99.6 Historical] [8:25]

**Kefka (Savage)**

Dragoon: (13/5826) [5968.39 DPS] [100 Historical] [5:42]

**God Kefka (Savage)**

Dragoon: (45/4352) [6426.82 DPS] [99.3 Historical] [8:34]

Best historical percentile, dps, and time are displayed individually from each other and are not necessarily from the same parse.

[lusty oak]

literally 30 ppl do hardcore padding

[pure yoke]

All the dragoons this tier

Only a couple thousand

I did hardcore pad on o5

No other fight was pad

[lusty oak]

Mill Phen
4.2 7,576.3 Apr 14, 2018

thats top o5s parse for brd

[pure yoke]

Dragoon it's like 8.4k

[vivid heart]

Thats crazy

The different

Difference

There are literally 10s of thousands of people more

for this one spec

[lusty oak]

balance 63.35%
spear 14.80%
tether 13.33%

[vivid heart]

Then there are for your entire class

Remember a spec is part of a class in WoW

thats crazy

[pure yoke]

You can almost consider jobs just a spec in ffxiv

Due to changing jobs freely

On one character

[vivid heart]

Eh, but not when it comes to parsing

The only fair comparison

Is if i took the two dps specs from druid (My class), balance and feral (The dps specs)

And compared them against all of dragoon numbers

[lusty oak]

and consider we have to manage comp for really high parses

[vivid heart]

Right

I'd love to see what % of people raid at the same level that savage is at, in wow

[pure yoke]

I am also assuming wow tries harder to funnel people into mythic?

[vivid heart]

And what % of ffxiv players raid

No

Mythic is like

top 1%

[pure yoke]

FFXIV is like "I did my msq, time to unsub"

[vivid heart]

Okay more like

Mythic is top 3%?

[pure yoke]

3% of a massive sub base

[vivid heart]

I can kind of get an estimate, one sec

[lusty oak]

20 ppl in raid with 26+ ppl total in raid group for swaps etc

[vivid heart]

Jesus

[lusty oak]

plus alts

[vivid heart]

I dont know how accurate this is

But from what im reading

[wet stag]

hi am non meta player

[vivid heart]

There are over 800 guilds that have cleared mythic antorus

The most recent raid

a raid team is 20 people, in wow

[lusty oak]

16k+ ppl

[vivid heart]

Im on page 20

Which is the top 1000 guilds, so far

[pure yoke]

Oh another thing

[vivid heart]

And these guys are at 10/11

[paper torrent]

Am meta bitch and suck dick

[pure yoke]

FFXIV raid guilds like

Almost don't exist

[vivid heart]

So the list goes on, of people who are still progressing in mythic

[pure yoke]

Most groups are well

Just a group of players

With no guild

[vivid heart]

Its crazy

Because

[lusty oak]

in JP ppl even disband after 8 kills

[vivid heart]

FFXIV actually pulls that off successfull

successfully*

Can have almost no raiding endgame

And still have a good mmo

[lusty oak]

ehhh no

[vivid heart]

How no?

[lusty oak]

we have raiding endgame

its players uninterested in it

[vivid heart]

Yeah but raiding endgame in ffxiv is not pushed at you

WoW's is

[lusty oak]

its more like LFR in wow

ppl just jerk off for 40 mins in story mod

and log off

[pure yoke]

I like the story

[vivid heart]

while there is a good number of people that do that

I dont think its the majority

honestly

[paper torrent]

I stopped following SBs story

After 4.2 msq ending

[lusty oak]

i'm pretty sure that % wise XIV and WoW almost identical in how many players are interested in savage/mythic

[pure yoke]

Time to sleep

Forever

[vivid heart]

But hold on

Savage isnt comparable to mythic

Savage is more like heroic, from what I've been told here

And a very, very large number of people do heroic, in wow

[lusty oak]

difficulty curve is like
2 floors of savage are middle heroic bosses
then u get first to middle mythic bosses

cant compare ucob, no clear, eu scrub

and my exp with wow ended early-mid WoD with 5/7 mythic Highmaul iirc

[vivid heart]

I think youre underestimating the difficulty of mythic content in WoW

[lusty oak]

i did not kill Butcher and Cho'Gall

had full SoO mythic

[vivid heart]

This is how many people have cleared antorus on heroic

in wow

Ahead of the Curve: Argus the Unmaker 27%

27% of the entire population

(That are still active)

This

is how many people have made it to the 6th boss in mythic antorus

Mythic: Imonar the Soulhunter 5.3%

Everything up to imonar is relatively easy, as far as mythic goes

Mythic: Kin'garoth 4.2%

Is the next boss

[lusty oak]

partially because finding 20 ppl is hard

[vivid heart]

Mythic: Varimathras 3.6%

[lusty oak]

against just 8

[vivid heart]

Mythic: The Coven of Shivarra 3.1%

And now for the boss that took us 287 attempts

Mythic: Aggramar 1.7%

you say that finding 20 people is hard

But its not

Because we have a much, much more populated playerbase

If we had FFXIV numbers, absolutely

And then of course

The last boss in mythic antorus

Mythic: Argus the Unmaker 0.9%

[vivid heart]

Is that international parses or just one region?

[wet stag]

international

[vivid heart]

oo

[lusty oak]

all regions

[vivid heart]

oof

Thats low

Does anyone know what FFXIV last known population count was?

[lusty oak]

we have around 900k players

[vivid heart]

Wow thats more than i thought there would be

Is that region or international?

the 900k players

[lusty oak]

not counting korea and china

[vivid heart]

I cant imagine that would be one region

[lusty oak]

those are special snowflakes

[vivid heart]

How did you find that parse result?

The X parses between X dates

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17

Can you find it for WoW?

[lusty oak]

jan census

WORLD
ALL CHARACTERS
12,131,050
ACTIVE CHARACTESR*
525,452

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21#metric=fightwipes&timespan=1000

[vivid heart]

Thats for mythic, mind

Something weird is going on

I dont understand why so many more parses are on agg and argus

Oh

[lusty oak]

wipes

[vivid heart]

People are prolly locking out the rest of the raid

[lusty oak]

[vivid heart]

Ooooooo

I see

Fuuuuck those wipes

in 2 weeks

177k wipes on argus

jesus christ

lmfao

[lusty oak]

the more wipes, the more parses

[vivid heart]

Right right, i understand it now

what im surprised at

Is how many yours had

Like

Oh right

Savage is much more accessible

Than mythic argus

here

This is heroic

basically savage

[lusty oak]

4 bosses a tier is shit show in my opinion

[vivid heart]

Can you link your image again

[lusty oak]

i like wow having random number

[vivid heart]

For the sake of comparison

[vivid heart]

Yeah, the population doing end game content really shows here

I wish we could see the % of FFXIV players that have downed kefka

Like we can with wows

For reference

Ahead of the Curve: Argus the Unmaker 27%

Thats for heroic

[zinc vortex]

there's no way 27% of the active playerbase has downed god kefka

[vivid heart]

Yeah, thats what im saying

[zinc vortex]

i'd be very surprised if the number even came close to something like 10%

[vivid heart]

A much larger % of the playerbase in wow does endgame

[lusty oak]

AotC is screwed because alts

[vivid heart]

Nope

This is account wide

[lusty oak]

can be 1 man with 15 characters

is it now?

okay point taken

[vivid heart]

Achievements have been account wide since either cata or wod

[lusty oak]

iirc Ahead of the curve was personal to character in mop

eh, whateve

okay, 27% did heroic

[vivid heart]

Yeah, its just interesting

According to warcraftlogs

13960 guilds have completed heroic antorus

Couple things about that, heroic has flexible scaling

So it can be done in a group of 10-30

but 70% of the players in your group have to be guildies for it to count as guild prog

And that 13960 guilds doesnt account for pug completion

[lusty oak]

i want new census for xiv

[vivid heart]

Unfortunately fflogs doesnt have a progress ranking

So i cant compare it to WoW fuck im tired

[lusty oak]

to see how many ppl have o8s mount

only way to really get how many characters cleared

[vivid heart]

Is o8s given on completion to everyone?

Er, the mount i mean

[lusty oak]

to 1 person

[vivid heart]

=.=;

[lusty oak]

but most groups do at least 8 kills

so everyone gets it

[vivid heart]

Is there not a site that can track achievements?

Would be able to see who has X achievement, would be useful

I dont know if the FF api allows for that though

[zinc vortex]

well

[lusty oak]

achievements are locked on default on lodestone

[zinc vortex]

the lodestone can

but they're locked by default

[vivid heart]

Ahhh rip

[lusty oak]

player has to unlock it

mounts and pets are unlocked tho

[vivid heart]

I just want to know now, for the sake of curiosity haha

[lusty oak]

so its really best way to get data

[vivid heart]

Right, right

mfw i've spent the last 2 hours only typing on discord

Instead of playing FFXIV and catching up

[lusty oak]

playing XIV

[zinc vortex]

playing XIV

[vivid heart]

i dont get this meme

[lusty oak]

60% of my current playtime is gpose

[zinc vortex]

100% of my playtime is not playing

raid 2 hours a week then fuck off to better games

[lusty oak]

👌

i sometimes do farms for mounts etc

but ppl in EU df

1 tank 1 healer 6 dps Lakshmi Ex

she leaves with 30% hp

im only one above 5k

sam lower than healer

10 million players worldwide my ass

such blatant lie on every fucking XIV official video

[vivid heart]

I suppose it depends on what you want out of FFXIV

I play it more for the social aspect than anything, something that WoW lacks severely

And WoW is almost a job for me at this point

[lusty oak]

social aspect

[vivid heart]

Dont greentext and expect me to take you seriously

lol

[lusty oak]

can play whole game without even /p hi in dngs

[vivid heart]

Yeah, thats your choice though

The community has to create a social atmosphere, the devs can give you options, but cant really force it

The FFXIV community does that a lot better than WoWs community

[stoic oasis]

just dont play on balmung. you will get ERPd at through whispers constantly. unless that sort of thing is what you want @vivid heart

[vivid heart]

Lol, the lack of content thing always makes me laugh

Its not the lack of content, necessarily

Its the lack of things you want to do

Those are different things

[steady pebble]

That's not entirely true

the balmung thing

[stoic oasis]

not entirely true

but it does happen

[steady pebble]

I didnt say it didn't

but to say that you get constant erp whispers is incorrect

just like saying that erp happens every where, all the time on balmung is wrong as well

[vivid heart]

erp happens everywhere believe me i know

[zinc vortex]

i have a character on argent dawn on eu

there's

a lot of erp

but wow also has a lot of (imho) really cool rp

like there was a campaign a couple weeks ago that had hundreds of people, dozens of rp guilds do a faction war in northrend

shit was cool to look at

[stable basin]

I used to play on Turalyon US, switched to XIV last summer shortly after I started working second shift at Walmart and it was pretty clear that I wasn't going to be doing much more WoW raiding with that kind of schedule without paying for a server transfer

Probably the thing Turalyon is most famous for is their Discord, it's pretty much starting to become one of the go-tos for guild recruitment in NA in general

[boreal edge]

@lusty oak it might be 10 mil players

but not active

[lusty oak]

it has around 12 mil characters total

[lucid karma]

half probably bots

[glossy musk]

Other half afk ERPers

[woeful prawn]

yoshi pans over balmungilgamesh
prease stop playing my game

[glossy musk]

Gilgamesh is okay

Balmung out

Mateus too

[woeful prawn]

ignoring the fact that all the twittersluts are on gilga

[glossy musk]

That’s because they’re from Balmung and it’s too much competition there

[vital cypress]

[dense forge]

O/

[wet stag]

for healers: sch whm is prog meta

[dense forge]

So without spoilers, since I’ve only played up to 4.0, we are the hbics of endgame prog?

[wet stag]

for tanks it literally doesnt matter, its just what you prioritize more

hbics?

🤔

[dense forge]

I’m a tank main. Can you elaborate?head bitches in charge

[wet stag]

lmfao

like i said

literally doesnt matter

personally i like drk/pld for prog

[boreal edge]

@wet stag we are cursed ast/whm

[wet stag]

same lol

[boreal edge]

[dense forge]

Depends on what I prioritize meaning...?

[wet stag]

ok

pld is p much set if you wanna prog

[dense forge]

I the tank or I the group?

[wet stag]

cover + intervention too good

[dense forge]

Cool

[sour solstice]

Knockback immunity for your MT

so good

[wet stag]

then it comes down to if youd rather personal mitigation on the main tank (drk), or a bit more group mitigation (war)

[sour solstice]

for O5

[wet stag]

with that said

[boreal edge]

pld and war with drk as inferior

[sour solstice]

For now

[wet stag]

you'd wanna save cooldowns for war in case there are tank busters coming up

[boreal edge]

wont expect se to fix drk

[wet stag]

i prefer pld/drk because tbn gives the healers more breathing room

[sour solstice]

WAR on O6s is just feelsbadman because you have a near useless cd

[dense forge]

What about dps?

[sour solstice]

For prog its w/e

[dense forge]

What’s the :🍵: on that?

[boreal edge]

isnt o5s is too?

[sour solstice]

SAM is a little behind

no you can use Raw on Head On

[wet stag]

for prog youd want smn rdm

i guess brd

and nin

[dense forge]

Has play style changed for any of the classes since 4.0?

[wet stag]

war

has changed a lot

[sour solstice]

wheres the flowchart

[wet stag]

its rly easy now

you said you were a tank main

which tank?

[sour solstice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226122265018761217/443873884408643585/WAR.PNG

[dense forge]

Paladin

[sour solstice]

thats not even a joke

[dense forge]

Leveling War now since it’s the new IT tank

[wet stag]

nah pld's still way better than war imo

[sour solstice]

throw in Upheaval and Onslaught

and thats a good rotation

PLD and war is a little apples to oranges

WAR is a better MT than PLD but PLD is a better OT

[dense forge]

I wanna MT

All eyes on me

[sour solstice]

WAR is the go-to then

[dense forge]

I’m an attention whore

Thanks

[wet stag]

yalia shush for a bit

lol

[sour solstice]

I mean im not wrong

[wet stag]

you can mt as pld

its just that you cant pull

[dense forge]

Por que no?

[boreal edge]

whymaige should heal not comment

[sour solstice]

im a WAR as well

[wet stag]

because drk and war lose less dps when they pull

if you pull as a pld you get fucked

[sour solstice]

WAR loses 1 gcd

[wet stag]

push back your rotation by 4 gcds

[sour solstice]

how many does pld lose

OOF