Suggestion for Joineries to have some passives back.

[granite wharf]

I believe that the old joineries were problematic in the sense that gildaur was BiS for most weapons except for bows and magick weapons. That was mostly because it had the most damage and also lifesteal which was really handy in melee builds.

I like what joineries are going for now with additional virtue scaling really opening up some weapon combinations we didn't have before but in the process joineries really lost some identity. Right now a Verite is the same as a Gildaur which functions the same as Feybalt.

I do not think that joineries should be adding straight up stat buffs because that opens up more BiS options and the rest is left to collect cobwebs in the depths of your inventory.

My suggestion would be to add in some QoL buffs in adition to the current ones to the different joineries that lean more into playstyle than damage.

For example, Verite could be the joineries for the elusive and evasive. make it speed up dodges and widen perfect dodge window. Gildaur is the joinery for the brutish and headstrong. It could increase the parry window and add additional stagger on successful parry.

For the ranged options, of course the agile minded can always use Verite, but for archers, Quicksilver could be favoured by the eagle-eyed. It could increase zoom distance and increase projectile velocity. And the ones rooted in the fey magicks may prefer Feybalt. It's conductive properties could decrease charge time for heavy strikes and increase the seeking distance of magick projectiles.

Or something along those lines. Nothing that would affect damage numbers to an absurd degree, just some buffs that lean more into certain playstyles than others.

[shy scaffold]

+1

Not direct do % more damage buffs, but things that still help

I like

[granite wharf]

Exactly. It would also open up opportunities for more Joineries with different buffs if the devs want to add more

[bleak depot]

New joinery change they did in P14 is extremely boring

[toxic pasture]

1+ I love the idea. The current Joineries are good, but they're missing something. I can't quite put my finger on it, but let's just say they lack personality. The idea behind the previous Joineries was good; they just needed to remove everything that directly increased damage. But adding things that benefit different playstyles seems like the right move. A 15-20% parry window for those who like to parry, the same for those who prefer dodging. More examples would be a 15% damage reduction and stability when blocking for those who are like a brick wall, and a 25% cast window, perfect for those who like Captain America-style gameplay and things like that.

[red phoenix]

They did say the bonuses could return in a new form, suspect they might be prioritizing totems for that kind of buff though. We'll see what happens. Could maybe see Joineries adding some synergies with abilities though, like increasing the chance of smiting a certain colour.

[random wharf]

My assumption (and we need more info on this) is that things like increased Perfect Throw damage, Lifesteal, etc... will return as the "Quirks" mentioned in the new loot system we'll get in P15

[dreamy onyx]

3 pip joineries are mostly useless with new system because of really low scaling caps on weapons, even 3 star weps cap with a single or double pip. We also have overlapping joineries types that do the same thing just one does different weapon types

I would suggest just delete/merge the 3 pip joineries to 2 pip and simplify the joinery system to:

Feybalt: 1 Spirit Pip
Quicksilver: 1 Grace Pip
Verite: 1 Courage Pip

Then have "Greater Feybalt" That is 2 spirit pips and so on

Add 3 new types that are Combination for split builds, for example:

Guildar: 1 courage pip/ 1 grace pip

and so on

[random wharf]

I would also like to see these stats return but while I don't think the current Joinery system is perfect I do prefer it only affecting attunement instead of mixing two quite different weapon tweaking systems into Joineries

[random wharf]

Agreed, made a similar suggestion a while back #1495697693635379300 message

[dreamy onyx]

THe other alternative is to lax the scaling caps but that is just power creep for the sake of creep at this point

[random wharf]

It's in that post but I do think having a soft cap would be better in the long run for scaling, make damage gains fall off a lot once you're past it but no gains does feel like a waste

[dreamy onyx]

You mean like how Dark souls figured out how to scale weps and have soft caps and we dont need to reinvent the wheel? Ive always felt like every variation of joineries we have had is just a worse version of weapon infusions from the souls series

[random wharf]

The Souls series are very different games, I don't fault the devs for trying things to see if they work better in Soulframe. I think up until quite recently the hard caps were fine since it wasn't too easy to reach them and there wasn't a way to increase weapon scaling until very recently.

But as the game and its systems evolve sometimes prior decisions need to be re-evaluated. I like having the ability to increase scaling now, but that also means cap probably need to be reconsidered

[dreamy onyx]

The problem I have with caps, be it soft or hard in both games, is there isnt really anything telling the player when it is going to occur

You are going to have players throw a thrice blessed on their weapon and gain 0 or a couple damage and then wonder what is going on.

Soulframe has it doubly worse because it's not a individual stat cap, its a TOTAL scaling cap. So players will think, "oh courage isnt giving more more damage on this split weapon, ill add spirit" and ge the same result with nothing in game telling them what is going on.

but in my opinion stuff like this should never happen, this is a 2 star weapon literally getting nothing from even a 1 pip joinery because the scaling cap is so low