Deulo Passive: Ohlo Poh Ohlo should trigger on parry not dodge

[wicked abyss]

The first passive already triggers a clone on dodge, so the second should trigger the bleed on parry. This is the fencing pact so it makes sense.

[heavy summit]

+1. Personally I'd like it if Duelo passives trigger on both Dodge AND Parry, but one Passive for each is an acceptable compromise.

[wicked abyss]

your idea is ideal yes. but yeah. it's weird the fencing/dueling class has literally no innate incentives to parrying

[silent terrace]

Especially since the "Rapier" is classed as Long Blade and Long Blade has Unyielding allowing the player to also parry heavy attacks. When you're doing the Duelo dodging gets you punished where as Parrying is rewarded so its odd that the Passives are about dodging instead of Parrying

[proper fractal]

The other problem is spectral dodge is so poorly telegraphed that you can barely tell you’ve triggered it, whereas parry is very noticeable.

Also because there is a wealth of totems that significantly increase parry windows, getting parries feels a lot easier and more rewarding than perfect dodges.

[potent olive]

+1 a parry passive and a dodge passive would make a lot of sense on this instead of both being for perfect dodges.

Thematically it makes a lot of sense also

[wicked abyss]

Great Solution: Both Dodges and Parries can trigger this effect

Good Solution: Dodge for the ghostly images, and parry for the bleed (it just makes sense, why is dodging causing a bleed rather then a parry???)

Okay Solution: Both passives work for parry only.

Current problem: Both passives work for dodge only.

[crystal tree]

+1 on Parry to trigger Bleed Passive

• Unyielding Combat Arts deflecting heavy attacks with possible Bleed trigger.

• On Riposte Combat Arts to trigger Bleed Passive also an option

[gaunt mural]

If you are good with the dodges the dodging passive makes perfect sense...

[gaunt mural]

The gold flash and swoosh sound are pretty noticeable to myself.

[wicked abyss]

the first one yeah, I can see dodging to make a clone makesmore sense then a parry but parrying should abslotely cause a bleed rather then dodging

but also I suck butt at dodging in this game but pretty good at parry. Opposite of every other game with this combat style I have eve rplayed btw.

[gaunt mural]

I would say on riposte, but sadly riposting isn't a default action you can do- we love the skill tree removing fist parry ripostes...

My comment was more on the dodge passive itself existing though

[wicked abyss]

parry should cause a bleed on next attack. If you have riposte it would normally be a riposte if you don't or enemy gets too far away or something you still bleed on basic

[gaunt mural]

I wonder what the other pacts' unarmed riposte would be TBH, since the different pacts back in the day did have variance in parry.

Anyways, a parry passive and a dodge passive, I don't think both should be nixed to parry, because the dodge makes sense as it opens up enemies to backstabs if you time it well and position yourself decently

[wicked abyss]

true

and backstab damage boosted and it's a grace pact

[gaunt mural]

i find it benefits from grace courage mixing rather than strict one or the other, since the flintlock gets benefits from headshot damage w/ grace, but having higher base damage means you can quickly pop a dude in the guts and the dude behind him without having to fiddle to aim at their head, and possibly not hit guy 2 or 3.

And like everything, we don't talk about spirit. (besides the armor set)

[wicked abyss]

I went with uh

[wicked abyss]

mmm delicious spirit

[silent terrace]

but imagine if it was a perfect parry that allowed you to get the stab from the front instead? The fact that Duelo's passive aggro draw actually works AND allows for a backstab if you're positioned correctly is a slap in Sirin 2's face

A slap in Sirin 3's face as well

[gaunt mural]

...You mean... Just doing a parry riposte which you can do without the pact in the first place? Your complaint about sirin's 2 just sounds more like something you should bring up about sirin in general needing a rework.

[silent terrace]

Parry riposte isn't the same as getting the button prompt to stab someone as if they were max staggered / you snuck up on them

[gaunt mural]

It's a similar enough action that I don't think that's really a worthwhile trade from rewarding a dodge.

[silent terrace]

It would make sense with the bleed being on parry as well since you would be skewering them

[gaunt mural]

Which the feedback is about the bleed effect being on parry, not the ghost. Which I've already said I agree to that, have one parry and one dodge passive

[silent terrace]

1st response to OP was about it being on Parry & Dodge to which I was commenting

[gaunt mural]

But the ghost decoy passive being tied to parry I genuinely don't get as presently it does open up more gameplay, and before you add in again, sirin not being up to snuff, that's a sirin not being up to snuff thing. (Which I don't think it ever really was that good in the first place, it got the short end of the stick and the only thing that had it carried along was pickpocket before that got broke)

[silent terrace]

Because it wouldn't be a ghost decoy? which is just Sirin 2's ability with 0 cooldown, it would be a unique passive

[gaunt mural]

my first response to you was showing that the dodge makes sense because of how you can use it? And it adds part of her fight where she does her own clones, to your general dodge.

[gaunt mural]

Again, Sirin's 2 being lackluster is an issue that should be brought up seperately from a passive working as intended. That's also ignoring that to even proc the passive you need to be good at timing in the first place VS sirin just casting "look over there!"

[silent terrace]

There are probably 100 posts about how bad Sirin 2 is and has been since Sirin was put out of which I've already voiced my opinion on several times. The fact that they can't fix Sirin 2's ability to work properly but can give it to Duelo on a passive is insane

[gaunt mural]

Like, yes, sirin saying 'look over there!' should have them look over there, but that doesn't discredit a passive that rewards a player for skillful play.

[silent terrace]

AND it also works as a Sirin 3 because it allows for a backstab which Sirin 3 is for

But that isn't the point. The point is, it would make more sense for a fencing class to be about parry and repostes

I've said my piece

[gaunt mural]

It's not a strictly fencing 'class', it's the Mestra's pact, who when we fight is shown to both use dodges, and gun, which we do have. I've seen the unnamed pirates in the third fight parry more than her because of how the target lock works. While I again, agree a parry passive makes sense, it makes more sense for her to have a parry And a dodge one, and the bleed one I feel fits better as a parry passive. Then again, it could also be like this since magic weapons are incapable of parrying.

[silent terrace]

You can have the last word but I disagree and you won't change my mind. As I've stated I've said my piece

[atomic spade]

+1, i havent read all but i too was confused why it didnt have a parry passive. id like the bleed effect on ripostes personally

[vale wave]

+1 but i think it should trigger on both

[proper fractal]

This is true. Tying a benefit to only parry screws over current magick builds using the pact.

The better change would be to let magick weapons parry as we already have 80% of the defensive totems for magick weapons for some messed up reason affect parry window or stagger on parry when the weapons can’t even parry…

And magick weapons have zero dodge related totems outside one single stagger on dodge totems.

[final shuttle]

Signed +1

[final shuttle]

also, this!! the bleed could proc on both

[final shuttle]

should be the next attack after parrying, but count every hit in a riposte as the "next hit"
this way you still have an incentive to invest in riposte

[wicked abyss]

what if sirin but better (buff sirin)

[wicked abyss]

it's really note remotely the same ability. Its a copy of yout hat taunts. sure but it has a much shorter duration, does not deal damage or knock back, and requires perfect dodge (very difficult) to activate. Yes sirin needs buffs I agree completely. But kinda derailing the deulo convo to bring it up. Comparing apples and oranges. Yes they're both fruit but their differences start and end there.

[proper fractal]

Plus Sirin has the ability to trigger sneak attack and several ways to stop groups of enemies while at the same time enabling all of the Grace damage modifiers.

Duelo has no such thing. If anything, Sirin is a much better solo pact while Duelo feels better in groups due to the buff and the ability to line up your Flintlock headshots with less concentrated aggro on you.

[final shuttle]

Have you seen The Gif?

I've seen it today and i'm stunned even now

[final shuttle]

This

[weary heart]

+1 Ohlo Por Ohlo should trigger on parry only

[wicked abyss]

also let magics parry 😛